Which party is the best choice for Bulgaria?

[svet01]

There will be elections in Bulgaria in less than a year.

Let's talk about which party in Bulgaria deserves our vote. I think that not voting is not a smart choice. If we care about BG, we ought to be able to decide whom to support and to vote.

Saying that everyone sucks and is the same is just dumb, and what the 'communists' and DPS want you to think, because it helps decrease the support for the other parties.

So even if you don't like anyone, try to think who you dislike the least and vote.

A discussion might help clarify things....

[svet01]

The poll is secret, so don't be bashful and vote away :okay:

[ВМРО]

The presence of BSP and DPS is some kind of black humour.On the other hand it would be good if "NAPRED" figured as an option.The supporters of the centrist-rightist parties are overwhelming majority in the Bulgarian section and the results from the poll will confirm my words but unfortunately, the situation won't be that good at the elections.

[svet01]

The presence of BSP and DPS is some kind of black humour.On the other hand it would be good if "NAPRED" figured as an option.The supporters of the centrist-rightist parties are overwhelming majority in the Bulgarian section and the results from the poll will confirm my words but unfortunately, the situation won't be that good at the elections.

I read about NAPRED but didn't take it seriously... However, if the moderator is up for adding it to the poll, please do.

I know that we're not necessarily representative but everyone benefits from discussion, except God himself. ;)

There may be some BSP/DPS supporters on SSC, although I find it hard to believe.

[ВМРО]

Well, I'm not going to vote for NAPRED but IMO they will be in the next parliament.

BTW, why ATAKA is missing too?Siderov was satanised by the tripartite coalition as a result of many mistakes he made, however he was the first who had the courage to open a massive front against DPS.Despite the cliches spread by the government 90% of what he says is absolutely true and if he had expressed his political ideology with less hate speech the support for his formation would be bigger for sure.Furthermore, as of today ATAKA is definitely going go be represented in the next parliament and even according to state-funded NCIOM he has the highest rating from the leaders of all parliamentary-represented parties.

[svet01]

Well, I'm not going to vote for NAPRED but IMO they will be in the next parliament.

BTW, why ATAKA is missing too?Siderov was satanised by the tripartite coalition as a result of many mistakes he made, however he was the first who had the courage to open a massive front against DPS.Despite the cliches spread by the government 90% of what he says is absolutely true and if he had expressed his political ideology with less hate speech the support for his formation would be bigger for sure.Furthermore, as of today ATAKA is definitely going go be represented in the next parliament and even according to state-funded NCIOM he has the highest rating from the leaders of all parliamentary-represented parties.

I also forgot about them... Actually SDS opened a "front" against DPS back in 1997. ATAKA and DPS are mutually beneficial for each other and maybe funded from the same sources.

[vycanismajoris]

svet01, if we want to have a clear picture, then you should add another two options in my opinion: "I'M Not Going To Vote" and "Other" (party). What do you think?

[svet01]

svet01, if we want to have a clear picture, then you should add another two options in my opinion: "I'M Not Going To Vote" and "Other" (party). What do you think?

I meant this as a discussion about whom to vote for so the option of not voting shouldn't be a part of this.. If someone doesn't want to vote, then don't. The sole idea of this thread is to fight against the 'i won't vote' attitude.

Other party sounds good, if the mod can add it.. People who vote for that option could tell us which one it is; it would be interesting to see if one has consistent support...

[vycanismajoris]

I meant this as a discussion about whom to vote for so the option of not voting shouldn't be a part of this.. If someone doesn't want to vote, then don't. The sole idea of this thread is to fight against the 'i won't vote' attitude.


Yes, i agree, but maybe it will be interesting to know how much people don't intend to vote. And what are their reasons for that (although we all know the reasons) :)

[insertnickhere]

why is it secret? why should someone be ashamed of who they ae voting for? its a free country.

i clicked bsp because on principle, i cannot vote for a legalized mobster.

[[s2jc]hyp]

^^ don't worry it doesn't matter. you BSP stable electorate ppl will hardly make any difference in the next elections.

[insertnickhere]

you dont even know who the electorate is. and no, its not the ones who go to the meetings and all that. its those that dont that you have to worry about

[[s2jc]hyp]

meetings? you actually meet people?

[Turnovec]

i clicked bsp because on principle, i cannot vote for a legalized mobster.

^^ Strange principles .... So you can't vote for one legalized mobster , but you can vote for a whole army of them ... like Galevi Brothers let's say :lol:

[paF4uko]

I won't vote for any of those...

[insertnickhere]

^^ Strange principles .... So you can't vote for one legalized mobster , but you can vote for a whole army of them ... like Galevi Brothers let's say :lol:

blah bleh like gerb isnt full of those

[insertnickhere]

hyp;28229476']meetings? you actually meet people?

only if they pay me. you cannot afford me though

[bgrs]

I'm beginning to like B.B. Screw the socialists, the socialist way hahaha.

[Turnovec]

blah bleh like gerb isnt full of those

^^ Of course they are full of those , but so is BSP ... and yet you voted for them ... You gotta be a hard-core komm... (ops sorry - socialist) :lol:

[ВОДА]

DSB rulez! :)

[Turnovec]

ATAKA and DPS are mutually beneficial for each other and maybe funded from the same sources.

^^ Pretty well said. :okay:

Anyway, you made a mistake by putting SDS with Yurukov as a leader. He resigned last week. I hope that the new leader of this party will be the candidate that is of my age - Martin Dimitrov. It would be nice to have a party whose leader was only 10 years old back in 1989 :)

[bgrs]

I'm gonna vote for GERB. Not that I really support them and not that my favourite is ever going to win the election in the next 10 years but I won't miss the fun watching how the BBs "party soldiers" eradicate everything connected with the reds and DPS in that country. This would be an entertaining thing to read in the news :) Hope the new mafia will be better than the previous one :) At least we can blame everything on the Superman, not on a 3-party coallition full of faggots that cannot take responsibility of its actions :)

[Ivanski]

DSB rulez! :)
Yeah right it seems half of their supporters are on the forum :)
Anyway from that options I'll chose BB and GERB, I don't see other alternatives. I guess I've somehow missed the great progress we had during Kostov's rule.

[paF4uko]

We've already seen all of them for the last 20 years and I don't think Boiko's going to do better as he's just another mutro-commie... I'm going to vote for ENP.

[Turnovec]

I don't think Boiko's going to do better as he's just another mutro-commie...

^^ I share that same opinion about the super-hero ... :okay:

[Ivanski]

Nobody in politics is pure and clean like a mountain spring. That what matters the most is whether the candidates has the skills to manage his job. And to balance between your interests and those of the state.

[Turnovec]

Nobody in politics is pure and clean like a mountain spring. That what matters the most is whether the candidates has the skills to manage his job. And to balance between your interests and those of the state.

^^ Yep! And Boiko Borisov is no where near that descreption for me. It's my personal opinion.

I still haven't voted in this poll ... There's plenty of time till the elections, but BB is defenetely not going to be my choice, along with BSP.

[paF4uko]

There's plenty of time till the elections, but BB is defenetely not going to be my choice, along with BSP.

Same for me... But I'm almost sure already who I am going to vote for...of course not in this poll...so I won't cast my vote here.

[radi6404]

Haha, Boiko Borissov votes are raising, it will be exactly like that on the real votes, Boiko Borissov will win.

[paF4uko]

Haha, Boiko Borissov votes are raising, it will be exactly like that on the real votes, Boiko Borissov will win.

And you will happily live in communism...

[insertnickhere]

he might win but he wont have majority..

it will be gerb + bsp. and they will just come together despite all the nonsense being talked now

[radi6404]

At least more happily than now where nothing happens.

[Turnovec]

There is one thing that is important to think about when voting.
We don't want to end up like in Russia where people vote for Putin and get Medvedev as a president :)

When you vote on parliamentary elections you do it for a short list of people who will eventualy represent your interests in the parliament. you don't do it for the party's leader but for the people below him.

I am pretty sure about some of the names in the VT Gerb's shortlist. And I would rather drop dead than elect Ico Pizzata or Mina Ilieva as deputees in the next parliament who are supposed to take care of my interests :nuts:

Same happend in 2001 ... people voted for Simeon, and from VT region we've elected a 25 year old girl, waitress in a local pizzeria as a deputee ... She later become famous as Siika Deputatkata :nuts: ... a real joke ...

[JloKyM]

Ico Pizzata :



Is Ico Pizzata the owner of Miss Capris?????

[Turnovec]

it will be gerb + bsp. and they will just come together despite all the nonsense being talked now

^^ I'm pretty sure that it will happen just like that :) The mutras will unite ...

Anyway BSP vs. GERB ... It's like Kommunists with business hearts vs. Businessmen with kommunist hearts ...

What a choice ... eh :lol:

[Turnovec]

Is Ico Pizzata the owner of Miss Capris?????

^^ No , he is a local player , owner of "Elenskoto Hanche" ... My mother used to know him when she was young - they went in the same school in Elena... Now when the guy is chairman of the VT local parliament and leader of the GERB party in the town she just wonders wheter to laugh or cry what kind of people are(or will be) rulling the country .... :nuts:

[vycanismajoris]

he might win but he wont have majority..

it will be gerb + bsp. and they will just come together despite all the nonsense being talked now

i share this opinion. But if so, they won't have the majority still, i think.
What i'm sure, DPS is out of the rule :)
And what about the option: GERB in opposition, judging by the character of it's leader.

[bgrs]

I have an idea....since the parties in Bulgaria are not what they claim to be, why don't you take this test:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

and copy-paste the results?

Mine:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-0.75&soc=-3.59

[JloKyM]

^^ No , he is a local player , owner of "Elenskoto Hanche" ... My mother used to know him when she was young - they went in the same school in Elena... Now when the guy is chairman of the VT local parliament and leader of the GERB party in the town she just wonders wheter to laugh or cry what kind of people are(or will be) rulling the country .... :nuts:

Ok I understand. I know another ICo Pizzata-the owner of MIss Capris and my mother saved his life 10 years ago :lol::lol:

Back on topic- I voted GERB(I dont know why) but still think the best prime-minister of Bulgaria for the last 60 years was Ivan Kostov.

[Turnovec]

I have an idea....since the parties in Bulgaria are not what they claim to be, why don't you take this test:


Here I am :)

http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=1.12&soc=-2.26

[JloKyM]

Very interesting test bgrs. Here's mine result

http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-1.38&soc=-2.77

[Cyberflow]

My vote goes for ATAKA. They were the first to raise questions that other parties willingly avoid. Skat TV is the one tv channel that always speaks the truth, even when it is not in its best interest. The one tv channel that shows things others don't and calls them with their real names. The most educational and pro-bulgarian tv, broadcasting genuine bulgarian folklore. The place, where I learned about real bulgarian patriots like Nikolay Haitov and their lifetime struggles for the preservation of bulgarian spirit and culture. And the fact that a party that crosses the 10% barrier is not included in this poll is ridiculous. The author is obviously not in his right mind????!!???

[alex.german]

Oh my god, I think I am a communist :D

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/9250/pcgraphpngphpks6.png (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pcgraphpngphpks6.png)
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/pcgraphpngphpks6.png/1/w480.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img523/pcgraphpngphpks6.png/1/)

But I think that test has a very american approach to politics and culture, nation and society. On many topics, where u are considered a liberitarian in the US, you would be a conservative in Europe. So be careful with this test, it's not that accurate for europeans imo...:ohno:

P.S. Is there a party I can vote for in BG (if I were allowed to vote of course) :D

[Cyberflow]

Eто я поредната глупост на общите ни приятели от ДПС


Новият Закон за енергийна ефек*тивност, който в петък бе публи*куван в "Държавен вестник", ще блокира напълно пазара на жилища за нео*пределен период от време. В него е записано, че при продажба на апартамент или на цяла сграда прода*вачът задължително тряб*ва да представи на купува*ча сертификат за енергий*ните характеристики на сградата. Този документ описва колко ток и парно харчи сградата, какви ре*монти трябва да се напра*вят, за да влезе тя в норми*те - например топлоизола*ция на покрива или стени*те, слагане на нови догра*ми и т.н. Досега подобен доку*мент се изискваше само за промишлени предприятия и големи обществени сгра*ди. За да се сдобие един блок с такъв сертификат, трябва да бъде свикано об*що събрание, което да ре*ши коя от оторизираните фирми да направи оглед и да даде препоръки. Шансът да се получи съ*гласие от съседите е мини*мален, като се има пре*двид, че живеещите там ще трябва да изпълнят препоръките в срок от 3 го*дини. В противен случай ги чака глоба, която може да стигне 500 000 лв.

Самият сертификат се издава след цялостно изследване на сградата, ко*ето според специалисти струва между 0.50 лв. и 2 лв. на квадрат, фирмите, които могат да издават такъв документ, са около 80 и са вписани в публичен регистър. Разширяването на дейността им със сигур*ност ще доведе до увелича*ване на броя им, тъй като този бизнес не изисква го*леми първоначални инве*стиции, а печалбата е га*рантирана. Представители*те на агенциите за имоти бяха категорични, че зако*нът ще създаде много трудности.

"Няма проблем, ако ста*ва въпрос за нови сгради, защото те и сега се строят с такъв сертификат. Но да тръгнеш да събираш под*писи от съседите си, не е много приятно. Мисля оба*че, че ще се намери ком*промисен вариант в наред*бите към закона", каза Катя Ценова, управляващ съ*дружник в "Адрес".

"Това накърнява консти*туционното право на соб*ственост, защото, ако аз продавам, а съседите ми нямат по 10 000 - 20 000 евро, очевидно сделката ня*ма да може да стане", ко*ментира шефът на "Форос" Добромир Ганев. Инициа*тор на абсурдната разпо*редба в закона е депутатът от ДПС и председател на енергийната комисия в парламента Рамадан Аталай.

[alex.german]

My vote goes for ATAKA. They were the first to raise questions that other parties willingly avoid.

What are these questions, and moreover, are there any answers to them from ATAKA?

[Turnovec]

Oh my god, I think I am a communist :D

But I think that test has a very american approach to politics and culture, nation and society. On many topics, where u are considered a liberitarian in the US, you would be a conservative in Europe. So be careful with this test, it's not that accurate for europeans imo...:ohno:

P.S. Is there a party I can vote for in BG (if I were allowed to vote of course) :D

^^ Yes! I found many of the questions pretty americanised ...

Judging by your place on the graphic you should be more like a BSP voter ... :lol:

Anyway - Am I the only rightist so far in the forum after taking the test ? ;)

[Turnovec]

What are these questions, and moreover, are there any answers to them from ATAKA?

^^ ATAKA are fans of(and are copying) the style of one perticular German party that lead whole Europe to a disaster in 1939-45 ... ;)

For me it is the party of the uneducated and unintelegent layers of the society ...

Check out their TV ... it's a joke and total propaganda

p50oy5cF-qc

[alex.german]

^^ I know that they are a right winged party... I just wanted to ask for topics they care about and their program first, before I start to scream "OMG how can you vote for somebody like ATAKA" :lol:

[radi6404]

Ivan Kostov could indeet be an alternative, I like his talks and the power he shows, he could be a good leader, too, could he?

[MystN]

^^ I know that they are a right winged party... I just wanted to ask for topics they care about and their program first, before I start to scream "OMG how can you vote for somebody like ATAKA" :lol:

I'm not sure they have a program, their leader just talks and proposes things to the public that often are... well... I still remember their plans for total nationalization. :nuts:

[Turnovec]

^^ I know that they are a right winged party... I just wanted to ask for topics they care about and their program first, before I start to scream "OMG how can you vote for somebody like ATAKA" :lol:

For me they are extreme left :lol:

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f371/naster11/Untitled-1.jpg

[vycanismajoris]

I do not support Ataka, but respect everyone else's opinion.

[MystN]

I think ATAKA should be in that poll, they are certain to be in the next parliament.

[ВМРО]

http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-1.75&soc=1.90

Here is mine.I'm a bit surprised of the result because I've always been considering myself as a rightist with some far-rightist elements or maybe far-rightist with partial rightist ideas.After taking the test twice, there was almost no difference.This is the result from the first test.

Obviously, I've to accept my diagnosis, although I definitely disagree with it:)The following paragraph might be a good explanation of the picture above.

In our home page we demolished the myth that authoritarianism is necessarily "right wing", with the examples of Robert Mugabe, Pol Pot and Stalin. Similarly Hitler, on an economic scale, was not an extreme right-winger. His economic policies were broadly Keynesian, and to the left of some of today's Labour parties. If you could get Hitler and Stalin to sit down together and avoid economics, the two diehard authoritarians would find plenty of common ground.

Just for the protocol- I'm going to vote for GERB and consider the other parties as follows:
ATAKA- the most/utterly acceptable coalition partner

DSB, SDS, SSD, ENP, Gergjovden and the other smaller subjects in right from the old ODS, no matter whether they will form a coalition before the elections or not- more "YES" than "NO".

NAPRED(LIDER+VMRO+ZNS)- depends on whether they will close the left door and will completely move to the centre-right spectre.Probably, slightly more in favour of future coalition with them than against.

BSP- no way.I as a regular supporter of GERB would rather the party to stay in opposition than to co-operate with the socialists.In my eyes the purpose DPS to stay in opposition and then to be destroyed as a party can't serve as an excuse.

DPS- the same as BSP since practically they are one party with 2 names.

[Cyberflow]

^^ ATAKA are fans of(and are copying) the style of one perticular German party that lead whole Europe to a disaster in 1939-45 ... ;)

For me it is the party of the uneducated and unintelegent layers of the society ...

Check out their TV ... it's a joke and total propaganda

p50oy5cF-qc
That part with the education could be to some extend true, but according to my observations, ATAKA supporters are mostly young people that seemingly have graduated, or are about to graduate from school. There are also older people, who are certainly neither more, nor less educated than those, who vote for, lets say the socialists. And ofcourse there are people like me, who speak 5 languages and have an IQ of way over 120. The other part of your statement is also to some extend true. Many young people who like what Hitler was about, and consider themselves to be some sort of nowadays' nacists, are ATAKA supporters. But why is that? Simply because this is the image that the authorities created for ATAKA. But there are also many others like me, I am not nacist, I am a nacionalist and a patriot. However, the third thing in your statement is not true. All the other tv channels with their reallity shows, Azis, Ned, The Long Prick, and the rest of the kitsch are jokes, obviously, for any normal human being. Their one goal is to make people dumber and dumber. I can't recall where is the last time I saw something probulgarian or pro humane on BTV or Nova, let alone TV2 and so on. What propaganda really is, is that innocent clip of Stanishev driving a tram on the national tv, that is supposed to be the tv of all the bulgarians. But obviously it is the BSP private amusement channel. Skat is not a national tv, it is relevant for them to pick a side. But BNT are supposed to be neutral. So that's the way it goes, bro.

[Turnovec]

I think ATAKA should be in that poll, they are certain to be in the next parliament.

^^ Yep, no matter what my opinion about them is , they will surely be in the next parliament ... so they deserve to be in the poll.

And as we saw there is their supporter on SSC.

[alex.german]

Any of you who support ATAKA... what do they want? What is their programe?

[radi6404]

http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-4.12&soc=-2.62

My political compass.

[Cyberflow]

For me they are extreme left :lol:

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f371/naster11/Untitled-1.jpg

Obviously, you are wrong again, but you must be quite used to it, right?
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2769/pcgraphpngphpbi3.png (http://imageshack.us)
that's me...

[Cyberflow]

Any of you who support ATAKA... what do they want? What is their programe?
That's not fair:lol:. You write a line and I am supposed to answer with 10 pages. :lol: Read it yourself.:cheers:
Btw, eto ti programa. Nikakva koaliciq s DPS, ako shte nebeto da se prodyni. kakvo pove4e ti trqbva?

[MystN]

Any of you who support ATAKA... what do they want? What is their programe?

In my opinion the ATAKA supporters are different people with different views. And because ATAKA speaks with many voices their supporters hear what they like and ignore the rest. That's how you have communists, nazis, lefts and rights, patriots and not so patriotic people all voting for that party. Many people also vote because they want to punish the entire political system.

[kudos]

and that's me

http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-2.62&soc=-1.13

[Cyberflow]

In my opinion the ATAKA supporters are different people with different views. And because ATAKA speaks with many voices their supporters hear what they like and ignore the rest. That's how you have communists, nazis, lefts and rights, patriots and not so patriotic people all voting for that party. Many people also vote because they want to punish the entire political system.
Couldn't have put it better myself. You are a genious!!!:banana:

[svet01]

Oh my god, I think I am a communist :D

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/9250/pcgraphpngphpks6.png (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pcgraphpngphpks6.png)
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/pcgraphpngphpks6.png/1/w480.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img523/pcgraphpngphpks6.png/1/)

But I think that test has a very american approach to politics and culture, nation and society. On many topics, where u are considered a liberitarian in the US, you would be a conservative in Europe. So be careful with this test, it's not that accurate for europeans imo...:ohno:

P.S. Is there a party I can vote for in BG (if I were allowed to vote of course) :D

You're welcome to vote... just don't tell the other foreigners because then the results would get less accurate ;) :lol:

My result was almost in the very center, in the lower left quadrant. Somewhere close to Kudos. And I support the center-right, like CDU in Deutschland.

[alex.german]

All the other tv channels with their reallity shows, Azis, Ned, The Long Prick, and the rest of the kitsch are jokes, obviously, for any normal human being. Their one goal is to make people dumber and dumber. I can't recall where is the last time I saw something probulgarian or pro humane on BTV or Nova, let alone TV2 and so on.

Oh come on, thats not true :ohno: there are a couple of very "pro-bulgarian" shows on the "other" tv stations. What I understand of a "pro-national" program (i compare it to german tv) is, that it shows bulgarians, how they live, what problems they have to deal with and also how foreigners see this country, because it is good to reflect sometimes... I personally liked the "takuv e zhivotut - novite bulgari" series from btv and also the one series where they show bulgarians abroad and how they bring their bulgarian culture with them to whatever country they went to....

Simply to say, that just SKAT spreads the truth is imo populistic...

[ВМРО]

Any of you who support ATAKA... what do they want? What is their programe?

ATAKA is a nationalistic(mainly anti-minorities) party with contradictory ideas.In general they are closer to the far-rightist space than to the far-leftist and their right wing is considerably more numerous than the left wing, however for instance they advocate for nationalisation and revision of privatisation deals which didn't defend the national interest.Initially, ATAKA was a member of Jean-Marie Le Pen's party in the European parliament but after it fell apart their deputies didn't join another party.Some time ago Siderov was in Malta to have talks with their nationalistic party which won 3 consecutive parliamentary elections and is a member of EPP.According to Siderov ATAKA will apply for membership in EPP at the beginning of 2009 and relies on the support of the Maltese party to accelerate the process.

[svet01]

In my opinion the ATAKA supporters are different people with different views. And because ATAKA speaks with many voices their supporters hear what they like and ignore the rest. That's how you have communists, nazis, lefts and rights, patriots and not so patriotic people all voting for that party. Many people also vote because they want to punish the entire political system.

ATAKA appeals to people's legitimate concerns, because they cover an unexploited niche that other parties are sfraid of, but their leadership is connected with Russia and the communist secret police (DS), so they are not an alternative. They only look like one. And the result of their talking is just to get BG in trouble. I can be that if they were elected they would do nothing constructive for our national issues. Look at western Europe where many issues that ATAKA talks about are done quietly by the moderate parties, and no one notices.

If EPP accepts ATAKA, that would be the joke of the year.

[paF4uko]

Here's my result:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-4.62&soc=-4.56

Like Gandhi, Mandela and Dalai Lama :P

[MystN]

ATAKA appeals to people's legitimate concerns, because they cover an unexploited niche that other parties are sfraid of, but their leadership is connected with Russia and the communist secret police (DS), so they are not an alternative. They only look like one. And the result of their talking is just to get BG in trouble. I can be that if they were elected they would do nothing constructive for our national issues. Look at western Europe where many issues that ATAKA talks about are done quietly by the moderate parties, and no one notices.

If EPP accepts ATAKA, that would be the joke of the year.

I'm aware of that, I was just trying to explain what motivates people to vote for ATAKA.

[alex.german]

ATAKA is a nationalistic(mainly anti-minorities) party with contradictory ideas.

That's what I heard from my girlfriend, too. Although I can understand the big problems with gypsies and turkish minorities in BG, I strongly disapprove to treat them differently just because they are from another ethnic group... I really thought we've had enough of that in the last century :ohno: And yes, discrimination is not a bulgarian problem alone, in germany there are also partys like Ataka, but they are strictly regulated by the constitution..

P.S. thx 4 explaining though :)

[Cyberflow]

That's what I heard from my girlfriend, too. Although I can understand the big problems with gypsies and turkish minorities in BG, I strongly disapprove to treat them differently just because they are from another ethnic group... I really thought we've had enough of that in the last century :ohno: And yes, discrimination is not a bulgarian problem alone, in germany there are also partys like Ataka, but they are strictly regulated by the constitution..

P.S. thx 4 explaining though :)
That is what ATAKA is about. It is the choice of those people who are fed up of some groups being treated differently just because they are minorities. Laws should apply to everyone just the same.

[Turnovec]

That's what I heard from my girlfriend, too. Although I can understand the big problems with gypsies and turkish minorities in BG, I strongly disapprove to treat them differently just because they are from another ethnic group... I really thought we've had enough of that in the last century :ohno: And yes, discrimination is not a bulgarian problem alone, in germany there are also partys like Ataka, but they are strictly regulated by the constitution..

P.S. thx 4 explaining though :)

^^ btw, the biggest percentage of ex-secret service(Ministerium für Staatssicherheit) agents in the current parlaiment is in the parties that appear deadly enemies and who play with the minorites and ethincal issues - ATAKA, DPS and VMRO ... Quite strange don't you think.

ATAKA is one of the leaders with еаch 3rd of its deputees being secret policemen of the old regime.

That has to bring an alarming "red light" for most people ... though i doubt :)

[alex.german]

Ok, sorry I didn't make myself clear... What I mean is, that they should not be discriminated or left outside the "bulgarian" society... There have to be extra efforts to integrate them, though... and in that manner they surely have to be treated differently. I know that most of the gypsies feel good as gypsies and not as bulgarians.... But thats exactly the point... In Germany there is a large turkish minority that lived, like any large minority in many countries, only among themselves... Because they were somehow seperated from society they also had less acces to the labour-market and costed the staate a lot of money...

See it from this perspective: An investment in minorities, to bring them back to the labour-market and maybe create a business and jobs is an investment in the future health of the bulgarian economy.

[Turnovec]

And one pretty interesting article by one young journalist that i respect about how ATAKA are making journalism ...

read it, it's quite educational ...

Aтака прави журналистика

Да не излезе, че се хващам само за лошата журналистика на партия Атака. "Труд", без да е открито партиен, прави отвратителна журналистика. Ясно е, че повечето всекидневници са жълти, жълти, а се предлагат като "сериозна" преса. Но просто два примера за Атака ми се набиха в очи и няма как да ги спестя.

Всички знаем, че по телевизия СКАТ има яко ксенофобски предавания, повечето антитурски. Проблем на СЕМ, но наскоро ви говорих за безнадеждното положение там.
По-голям проблем става, когато тези предавания се пускат на жълтите павета, пред президентството. Да, Атака са маргинали, никой не им се връзва, ама е тъпо да минавам по покрай БНБ и да слушам как "Турция ерозира българската държавност". Повечето документални филми на СКАТ (http://zazz.bg/search/?vbox_q=%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE+%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE) на тема ислям, мюсюлмани в България, помаци са изключително пропагандни и директно настройват срещу съседна Турция.


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f371/naster11/ataka.jpg

Типичният електорат на Атака гледа пред президентството как Турция "ерозира българската държавност".

В интерес на истината моят интерес към помаците тръгна точно от едно филмче на СКАТ. Но само след един ден четене ми стана ясно, че нещата далеч не са толкова ясни и черно-бели: добрите българи/лошите турци. Даже турците почти не присъстват в играта.

И ако филмчетата са си директна пропаганда, вестник "Атака" явно се прави от същите хора, които навремето са измисляли комунистическите лозунги. (пр. " При директора се влиза само по голяма нужда!" и "Всички луди - на борба за мир! ")

Ето какво прочетох във в. "Атака" (http://www.vestnikataka.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=49693&edition_id=835&format=html) наскоро: "Изчезването на българите - твърди Гамизов във в. "Монитор" от 24 август 2007 г. - е неизбежно и нужно за доброто на целия свят, защото българската същност е патогенна и опасна. А ислямизацията на България била здравословен процес, защото мюсюлманската общност е жизнена, също като ромската."

Бре, викам си, Стефан Гамизов някой път говори малко на едро, ама такива глупости никога не съм чувал. Намирам въпросното интервю в "Монитор" (http://www.big.bg/modules/news/article.php?storyid=50852). В него Гамизов казва, че българската общност е подложена на агресията на патогенни организми, а не че тя самата е патогенна и "опасна". Думата "опасна" не е използвана изобщо. Също така, Гамизов изобщо не нарича ислямизацията здравословна, това е измислица на "Атака". Той казва пределно ясния факт, че мюсюлманската и ромската общност са жизнени, но го обосновава критично: "Мюсюлманската общност в България функционира на сравнително ниско ниво, от гледна точка на целите, които си поставя. Именно това ниско ниво гарантира, че тя няма да се либерализира, няма да се модернизира, ще остане затворена и респективно ще е защитена от агресията на външния свят. Нейното физическо оцеляване е напълно гарантирано."

Някой май или не е разбрал Стефан Гамизов, или доста си е пофантазирал върху интервюто му. Но нали знаете, ако няма враг, трябва да си го създадем...

И, между другото, предпочитам българската общност да намалява, но да се либерализира и модернизира. Защото в момента ромската се увеличава, но повечето и представители живеят ужасно (за което българската общност има конкретни вини). Но на Атака едва ли им пука особено за това. Те искат населението на България да се повишава - както по комунизма - нищо, че 95% от хората тогава са живеели мизерно и без елементарни свободи.

Както в случая с журналистиката на Атака - "Не, мерси!".

For me ATAKA is a neo-kommunist party. This ain't no nationalistic party. ATAKA have embraced Russia and the Russian ideas and its main task is to remove the focus of the easely manipulated population of the country from the real problems that we have.

Main heroes in the rhetorics of the party members of ATAKA are words like "traitors", "the turkish scum", "the gipsies", "the filthy jews" ... ATAKA is nothing else but a branch of BKP(BSP) and DPS.

Main figures in ATAKA are ex or current agents of the secret police, podophils, mutri and criminals and above all people with uncertain political orientation like Volen Siderov, Slavi Binev, Pavel Chernev, Vlado Kuzov and many other "stars" ....

[Cyberflow]

Ok, sorry I didn't make myself clear... What I mean is, that they should not be discriminated or left outside the "bulgarian" society... There have to be extra efforts to integrate them, though... and in that manner they surely have to be treated differently. I know that most of the gypsies feel good as gypsies and not as bulgarians.... But thats exactly the point... In Germany there is a large turkish minority that lived, like any large minority in many countries, only among themselves... Because they were somehow seperated from society they also had less acces to the labour-market and costed the staate a lot of money...

See it from this perspective: An investment in minorities, to bring them back to the labour-market and maybe create a business and jobs is an investment in the future health of the bulgarian economy.
Well, I don't know how old you are (surely under 25, judging by your words), but things are not as complicated as you may think. I am 30 and I remember very well how it was not some 20 years ago. There wasn't such a big gap between minorities and majorities. In my fathers hospital every other hospital attendant was gipsy. I had 4 gipsy classmates at school. We were playing football together. Their parents had jobs. They were living in apartment buildings, provided for them by the minucipality. These buildings were well maintained. So it doesnt take all that much to achieve that, no painfull integration, ongoing for 50 years is needed. All we need is laws and regulations for everybody and will to uphold them. So save that mumbo-jumbo for other little kids like you, that havent seen anything of the life before, and don't give it to me. It's not going to happen with this type of integration. Understand that. Give me one example, just one, for a country in the whole wild world that has solved their minority problems with integration. None what-so-ever. Even in USA or Netherlands (let alone France) there are monstrous problems in this aspect, in their cities there are many areas where a white man would be a dead meat and the police can do nothing about it. That is the result of the best efforts that the western societies gave this problem. If this is the best we can hope for, I say no thanks. We have the laws, we just need a political party that has interest in keeping them. Only an imbecile wouldn't understand that the current authorities have no interest in that. On the contrary, they would do anything to get these 7-8% of the votes on the next elections again. This is wrong and must be stopped. And when it is, the minorities will understand that it is to their best interest

[alex.german]

Give me one example, just one, for a country in the whole wild world that has solved their minority problems with integration. None what-so-ever. ... That is the result of the best efforts that the western societies gave this problem. If this is the best we can hope for, I say no thanks.

That is simply not true, and again, no offense, populistic... Take Germany for example, the second and third generation of turks is far more integrated than the first generation and it will take about 3 more generation to reduce the still existing problems. It is a very common phenomenon though to blame the minorities for economic or sociologic problems...

I aggree with you fully on the whole enforcing the law thing But in the EU for example we have to embrace minorities because we have them anyway. I aggree that this problem can be "solved" in a typical way, because there always will be new minorities which require the effort of integration, but thats no reason for saying.... we stop to help them integrate. And by the way, nowadays the US is not the best example for integration :ohno:

[insertnickhere]

^^ I'm pretty sure that it will happen just like that :) The mutras will unite ...

Anyway BSP vs. GERB ... It's like Kommunists with business hearts vs. Businessmen with kommunist hearts ...

What a choice ... eh :lol:

interesting. i actually need to use this quote at some point.


but for what its worth, there haven't been true communists since the 70s.

[Cyberflow]

Търновец, ти мойто момче наясно ли си, че в България има региони, където да си българин е недостатък, да не си от ДПС те поставя в неравностойно положение във всички аспекти с онези, които са. Примери мога да ти дам колкото си искаш и от личен опит. Има училища-свърталища на радикален ислям, прикривани от ДПС, които водят до сериозно затъпяване на децата и съответно до по-лесно манипулиране за всякакви цели на по-късен етап. Има градове (Джебел), където няма нито един българин и никъде не се чува българска реч. Никой нормален човек, който има тази информация не може да остане безразличен. СКАТ и АТАКА са единствените, които говорят за тези неща. Те ги говорят за такива като тебе, които никога през живота си няма да се опитат да си купят хляб в Джебел, да влязат посред нощ в циганската махала, като баща ми, който е гинеколог на повикване, да се опитат да въртят бизнес в Кърджалийско и т.н. Много хора разбира се показват елементарна човешка реакция в този случай, типична за по-недоразвитите индивиди. Щом информацията идва от АТАКА значи не е истина, а пропаганда. Дай да се присмеем и да се разграничим. Тука не става въпрос за това колко добри и трудолюбиви хора били турците и помаците и как еди-кой си като ходил еди-къде си му се видяли много мили хора и си пиел кафето с тях. Ставя въпрос, че една политическа сила си играе със съдбините на тези хора, защото държавата, в лицето на други политически сили умишлено е абдикирала от тях. Всичко това е порочно и трябва да се изкорени изоснови. Аз казвам, че нито една политическа сила, учавствала във властта не трябва да има достъп до нея. Никога повече. Имайки това предвид, кой остава? За кого да гласува човек?

[insertnickhere]

although i have that dude on ignore, people still quote him so i made the mistake of reading some of it.

for the record, when people talk about gypsies they typically talk about those living in shacks and breeding like rabbits and waiting, and expecting, and feeling entitled to free hand outs and stuff from everybody else.

in the past several years certain euro right organizations along with our local beloved (heh) dps puffed their uneducated and shallow heads with ideas that they are suddenly even more special and that everybody needs to treat them better because of who knows what.

THAT, created tension. nothing else has changed but outside pressure and apathetic society.

So lets get this straight... theres good and bad of them. but those who have experienced the bad ones personally, know that 1 is enough to spoil it for 1000!

[insertnickhere]

Търновец, ти мойто момче наясно ли си, че в България има региони, където да си българин е недостатък, да не си от ДПС те поставя в неравностойно положение във всички аспекти с онези, които са. Примери мога да ти дам колкото си искаш и от личен опит. Има училища-свърталища на радикален ислям, прикривани от ДПС, които водят до сериозно затъпяване на децата и съответно до по-лесно манипулиране за всякакви цели на по-късен етап. Има градове (Джебел), където няма нито един българин и никъде не се чува българска реч. Никой нормален човек, който има тази информация не може да остане безразличен. СКАТ и АТАКА са единствените, които говорят за тези неща. Те ги говорят за такива като тебе, които никога през живота си няма да се опитат да си купят хляб в Джебел, да влязат посред нощ в циганската махала, като баща ми, който е гинеколог на повикване, да се опитат да въртят бизнес в Кърджалийско и т.н. Много хора разбира се показват елементарна човешка реакция в този случай, типична за по-недоразвитите индивиди. Щом информацията идва от АТАКА значи не е истина, а пропаганда. Дай да се присмеем и да се разграничим. Тука не става въпрос за това колко добри и трудолюбиви хора били турците и помаците и как еди-кой си като ходил еди-къде си му се видяли много мили хора и си пиел кафето с тях. Ставя въпрос, че една политическа сила си играе със съдбините на тези хора, защото държавата, в лицето на други политически сили умишлено е абдикирала от тях. Всичко това е порочно и трябва да се изкорени изоснови. Аз казвам, че нито една политическа сила, учавствала във властта не трябва да има достъп до нея. Никога повече. Имайки това предвид, кой остава? За кого да гласува човек?

Come on now.. nobody is disputing that information.

But when you have ss junior there yelling on the podium, it is not exactly helping their cause, unless they think they can rile up some anarchist skinheads (which isnt much of an electorate......).

Bottom line is ataka are generally idiots operating on the lowerst common emotions and trends in the country. Nothing more. They have no idea what they want or what they can do. They just appeal to some quasi patriotic sense of belonging and get people riled up, but outside of that, aint nothing there to go on.

In fact, if we had the laws they so talk about, half of them would be in jail on various offenses, most of which are sexual

[Cyberflow]

That is simply not true, and again, no offense, populistic... Take Germany for example, the second and third generation of turks is far more integrated than the first generation and it will take about 3 more generation to reduce the still existing problems. It is a very common phenomenon though to blame the minorities for economic or sociologic problems...

I aggree with you fully on the whole enforcing the law thing But in the EU for example we have to embrace minorities because we have them anyway. I aggree that this problem can be "solved" in a typical way, because there always will be new minorities which require the effort of integration, but thats no reason for saying.... we stop to help them integrate. And by the way, nowadays the US is not the best example for integration :ohno:

There are some limits of tolerance that can not be crossed. When an abled person chooses to not work, when given a chance, this is as far as my tolerance and responsibility goes. When a group of people are given a whole apartment building and in 2 years they destroy it completely and use the bricks to make sheds on municipal land, it's as far as tolerance goes. Do these people deserve any further efforts? When someone commits a crime and gets away just because he is from the minorities, this is as far as tolerance goes. Acceptable tollerance for me is what exists in USA - any company has a limit of workspots, that are reserved for the people from the minorities. All the ghettos should get some kind of infrastructure on the account of the state. Education should again be made accessiable and compulsary for these people, as it once was. But thats it. No more. Anything above that is an abomenation of democracy

[alex.german]

Why it is so strange that you "don't hear a word" bulgarian? I mean, we speak english here in this forum, is english a better language than turkish? I'm sorry but I don't understand... I don't say they shouldn't try to speak bulgarian, but the solution is not just to say "hey, by law you have to speak bulgarian, deal with it" It's like back then, when they forced the turkish-bulgarians to change their last names...

I just want to say that I won't judge you because first I'm not a bulgarian and second everyone has its own oppinion, but that Ataka-program is racist and reminds me of the neo national-socialistic parties in germany. In every case, when elected they proved to be a complete failure, because the only thing they did was to try to propose stupid laws that didn't even confirm with the german constitution or european law.

[Turnovec]

Търновец, ти мойто момче наясно ли си, че в България има региони, където да си българин е недостатък, да не си от ДПС те поставя в неравностойно положение във всички аспекти с онези, които са. Примери мога да ти дам колкото си искаш и от личен опит. Има училища-свърталища на радикален ислям, прикривани от ДПС, които водят до сериозно затъпяване на децата и съответно до по-лесно манипулиране за всякакви цели на по-късен етап. Има градове (Джебел), където няма нито един българин и никъде не се чува българска реч. Никой нормален човек, който има тази информация не може да остане безразличен. СКАТ и АТАКА са единствените, които говорят за тези неща. Те ги говорят за такива като тебе, които никога през живота си няма да се опитат да си купят хляб в Джебел, да влязат посред нощ в циганската махала, като баща ми, който е гинеколог на повикване, да се опитат да въртят бизнес в Кърджалийско и т.н. Много хора разбира се показват елементарна човешка реакция в този случай, типична за по-недоразвитите индивиди. Щом информацията идва от АТАКА значи не е истина, а пропаганда. Дай да се присмеем и да се разграничим. Тука не става въпрос за това колко добри и трудолюбиви хора били турците и помаците и как еди-кой си като ходил еди-къде си му се видяли много мили хора и си пиел кафето с тях. Ставя въпрос, че една политическа сила си играе със съдбините на тези хора, защото държавата, в лицето на други политически сили умишлено е абдикирала от тях. Всичко това е порочно и трябва да се изкорени изоснови. Аз казвам, че нито една политическа сила, учавствала във властта не трябва да има достъп до нея. Никога повече. Имайки това предвид, кой остава? За кого да гласува човек?

Тhe pharase in bold gives answers to all your other questions.

Tell me something else. Is ATAKA proposing some kind of a way to deal with the minorities issues ? Some kind of a way to educate the gipsies or how to make them work ? I guess no .... Like any other Bulgarian party .

You did not answer me why each 3rd deputee of ATAKA in the Parliament is an ex-DS agent ... WHY?


And why did you turn this thread into an ATAKA one ?

There are much bigger and a lot more important parties in Bulgaria ... We wasted more than a page with this marginal one ...

[Turnovec]

Столична община : Място за паника няма, ватманите от градския транспорт са квалифицирани, а трамваите имат маршрут и посока

"Във връзка с получени сигнали от обезпокоени граждани , че неквалифицирани водачи управляват трамваи Столична община апелира софиянци да запазят спокойствие. Гарантираме, че в градския транспорт няма опасност пътниците да подпаднат в трамваи, управлявани от неподготвен водач като Сергей Станишев."



Официално съобщение (http://sofia.bg/pressecentre/press.asp?open=10&sub_open=36039&nxt=0) на пресцентъра на Столична община, разбирай Бойко Борисов.

Повтарям - ОФИЦИАЛНО!


Тая държава се превърна съвсем в Шоуто на Бени Хил ...

spz8_rpE0e0

[Cyberflow]

Why it is so strange that you "don't hear a word" bulgarian? I mean, we speak english here in this forum, is english a better language than turkish? I'm sorry but I don't understand... I don't say they shouldn't try to speak bulgarian, but the solution is not just to say "hey, by law you have to speak bulgarian, deal with it" It's like back then, when they forced the turkish-bulgarians to change their last names...

I just want to say that I won't judge you because first I'm not a bulgarian and second everyone has its own oppinion, but that Ataka-program is racist and reminds me of the neo national-socialistic parties in germany. In every case, when elected they proved to be a complete failure, because the only thing they did was to try to propose stupid laws that didn't even confirm with the german constitution or european law.

It is strongly unadvised for a german guy to speak of racism and neo-socialism. Why? Because your feeling of guilt would prevent any realistic evaluation of any political situation or party, when these two words are intertwined. Or, as we say here in Bg, you germans run away from hitler's ghost като дявол от тъмян, and you tend to see it anywhere...

[Cyberflow]

Тhe pharase in bold gives answers to all your other questions.

Tell me something else. Is ATAKA proposing some kind of a way to deal with the minorities issues ? Some kind of a way to educate the gipsies or how to make them work ? I guess no .... Like any other Bulgarian party .

You did not answer me why each 3rd deputee of ATAKA in the Parliament is an ex-DS agent ... WHY?


And why did you turn this thread into an ATAKA one ?

There are much bigger and a lot more important parties in Bulgaria ... We wasted more than a page with this marginal one ...
1) Yes, ATAKA is proposing SAME LAWS FOR EVERYBODY. Sounds pretty simple. Should be in every political force's main program. But it ain't happening.
2) You did not apply any proofs to support that statement
3) I speak of ATAKA, couse this is who I will vote for. Question is, why do u speak falce of ATAKA, forcing me to answer, and thus turning the thread into an ATAKA one?

[bgrs]

Във връзка с получени сигнали от обезпокоени граждани , че неквалифицирани водачи управляват трамваи Столична община апелира софиянци да запазят спокойствие. Гарантираме, че в градския транспорт няма опасност пътниците да подпаднат в трамваи, управлявани от неподготвен водач като Сергей Станишев. Ватманите в градския транспорт са квалифицирани, преминали са 3- месечен курс на обучение и всички те имат положен изпит и свидетелство за управление. Още преди курса кандидат- водачите полагат психо-тест и представят медицинско свидетелство за здравословно състояние.
Столична община призовава гражданите при слизане и качване от превозните средства да използват спирките на градския транспорт . Предупреждаваме ,че предложеният в клипа на БСП начин е опасен и крие рискове за тяхното здраве. Нап