A $100m plan to lure top rock acts
By DAVE BURGESS - The Dominion Post | Saturday, 22 November 2008

Money-spinning rock concerts could be lured to Wellington by a proposed arena above the Westpac Stadium concourse that could cost about $100 million.

A review of the city's event venues commissioned by Wellington City Council said the capital had missed out on millions of dollars in revenue because it lacked a mid-sized indoor concert venue.

The 5000-capacity TSB Bank Arena is the biggest indoor venue in Wellington. But major international acts, such as Stevie Wonder and the Red Hot Chili Peppers, have given it a wide berth in favour of Auckland's 12,000-seater Vector Arena.

Concert promoter Phil Sprey said Wellington had missed out on visits by rock superstars for years. "The main reason is we don't have an inside venue of about 10,000 capacity."

The viability of concerts was about economy of scale, he said. "When artists perform, they perform for a fee and that does not automatically get scaled to the size of the venue."

As an example, he said he brought Elton John to the Vector Arena this year but it would not have been viable for him to play at Wellington's TSB Bank Arena. "Tickets would have cost about $600 a seat, which is just ridiculous."

A mid-sized arena in Wellington would create a "natural circuit" with the 8500-capacity Westpac Arena in Christchurch, and the Vector Arena in Auckland. "That would appeal to big acts coming to New Zealand."

Wellington Mayor Kerry Prendergast said a 10,000-seat arena would be a regional facility and could therefore attract funding from other councils in the area, as well as from Greater Wellington regional council.

"Wellington, and the region, is missing out on events. This means we are losing the opportunity to gain significant economic impact."

She believed an arena would ideally be built above the stadium concourse, or on nearby waterfront land.

It could come under the management of Westpac Stadium.

A second report would be commissioned to look in detail at the cost, viability and possible sites for a 10,000-seat arena.

A concert arena of that size was expected to cost about $100 million.

The worsening economy has meant the council has looked to cut or defer some of its planned projects as a way to keep future rates increases to the level of inflation.

But Ms Prendergast said she supported further planning work being done on the arena because there would be "a clear economic return to the region, and the city".

The rock venue is a separate proposal to the $50 million indoor community sports centre in Kilbirnie, which has been agreed to by the council.

Submissions on the sports centre closed last month and an independent commissioner will now consider the evidence at a hearing before deciding whether to approve or decline the proposal.

Great thinking from Wellngton, again.

Hopefully the design will be unique. I'll wait to see renders about how it would fit in with the stadium concourse, but a seperate structure on waterfront land nearby sounds better.

More importantly, I wonder whether it would spell the end of the hideous facility at Queens Wharf which remains an eyesore on what is fast developing as a very pleasant waterfront. Would be good to see that bowled or at the very least, remodelled.

Does this mean they'd pull down that frightful mistake of an events centre at Queens Wharf?

Edit: Agree with KLK, a separate structure would be nicer. Also, would prefer to see a proper plan considered for how it fits in with the wider Pipitea/Railyards area when that is redeveloped in the future. Already the Stadium is in an inconvenient place for that, be good to make something like this fit into such a redevelopment better.

Sounds a good idea. Just what Wellington needs and as said, it will just go further to making the waterfront a really attractive place to be.

Fantastic idea. This should bring more acts to the city. I think incorporating the facility into the concourse by the Cake tin would be a better use of space. Would keep the building next to the PT nodes. Either way I hope it does get built as the kind of acts I have ben enjoying in Auckland would do very well in Wellington.

As for the Events centre, Probably see it kept for conventions and indoor sport. Would make a great Futsal Stadium! What ever happens it should get remodeled as it is a shocker!

A definite no-brainer. If it does get built, then TSB Arena could be the new home for Welly Indoor Sports.

wellington needs it, thats pretty straight-forward i thought, chch did it about 10 years ago now. But built on the stadium concourse, is she serious? she gets 0 points for stating the obvious that wellington needs an indoor arena and -5 for suggesting on top of the concourse, i think my idea of gutting the beehive and using that is just as good an idea. The politicans can use the beaurecreats office space and they can move on.

Great idea, but getting the location right is the tricky part.

The stadium concourse was built to take additional structure. It would all depend on the layout - an event venue has very specific requirements for acoustics, sightlines, people management and service access that would define its shape, so the question is does it work super-imposed on top of the concourse?

I don't agree with a site on the waterfront - it would be repeating the mistakes of the events centre. Event venues are 'black boxes' - inward-looking buildings that are only occupied 10% of the time and contribute nothing to their urban context. All you can do is tack on some retail to the outside (like they have done to one end of the Events Centre), which still leaves three inhospitable sides! And it would be a huge building, creating an impermeable lump that people would have to walk around.

Welly's needed this for a while, lets hope it becomes reality!

I don't agree with a site on the waterfront - it would be repeating the mistakes of the events centre. Event venues are 'black boxes' - inward-looking buildings that are only occupied 10% of the time and contribute nothing to their urban context.

I know what you are saying, but it doesn't have to be a "box design" and it can contribute to the urban context. Sydney Opera House anyone?? The structure could actually be the destination for the times it isn't being used. Even with limited use, I'd prefer something innovative for use 10% of the time than something like Meridian (as good a design at it is) which is just a glorified office block used 80% of the time...

But OK, perhaps the waterfront edge needs to be saved for something else. In that case, this could be a good opportunity to clean up some of the land around the stadium which current unused railyard land (or appears to be unused), thereby allowing seamless links to PT.

I've just looked up Google Maps, and compared the surface area of Vector Arena (http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=vector+arena&sll=-41.244772,172.617188&sspn=34.357424,89.033203&ie=UTF8&ll=-36.847388,174.777009&spn=0.004482,0.010868&t=h&z=17&iwloc=A) against the available space on the Westpac Stadium concourse (http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=westpac+stadium&sll=-41.244772,172.617188&sspn=34.357424,89.033203&ie=UTF8&ll=-41.274751,174.78511&spn=0.004209,0.010868&t=h&z=17).

There's theoretically ample space on the Concourse for a Vector Arena-sized indoor stadium, and it would also be a more efficient use of space than a greenfields location on Waterfront land. The only potential issue is structural integrity, which can't be too hard to address.

PS. Has anyone found a way to embed Google Maps into SSC posts?

I did wonder just what "above the Stadium concourse" meant...... Sitting on it? hovering above it? Along side and towering over it?

How would this work for crowds bypassing the facility on their way to the Stadium?

I did wonder just what "above the Stadium concourse" meant...... Sitting on it? hovering above it? Along side and towering over it?

How would this work for crowds bypassing the facility on their way to the Stadium?
Most likely right above that wide area at the stadium end. I'd say a good supply of reinforced rods should elevate it above the concourse quite nicely.

Problem I have with above the concourse, is it would make it quite a large unsightly building. The concourse isn't exactly pretty itself.

And what about a future with no concourse? When the railyards and port area is redeveloped and we want connectivity between Thorndon Quay and Waterloo Quay? Perhaps the old proposals to partially bury the railway and build over it connecting both sides gets implemented, etc. Building on the concourse makes it impossible to remove it, and kind of prohibits any of these future options.

Article from the DomPost:


Mixed reaction to arena proposal
DAVE BURGESS - The Dominion Post (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominionpost/4772626a23918.html) | Wednesday, 26 November 2008

A $100 million rock arena proposed for Wellington has had a mixed reception from regional leaders.

The proposal was put forward last week after a Wellington City Council-commissioned review found the city lacked a mid-sized venue specially for rock concerts.

Potential sites are to be identified in a second report, but Wellington Mayor Kerry Prendergast said it could be built above the Westpac Stadium concourse, or on nearby waterfront land.

The 10,000-seat arena would be for the benefit of the wider region and all ratepayers could be asked to make a financial contribution. It could cost as much as $100 million.

Porirua Mayor Jenny Brash said she knew nothing about the arena proposal, and her council was already under pressure to fund basic infrastructure. "We haven't got a lot of capacity to fund anything else."

She said the situation was complicated by the new Te Rauparaha Arena, with its 3000-seat main stadium, which opened last week in Porirua. One third of the $17.5million arena would be funded through Porirua rates.

Lower Hutt Mayor David Ogden said his council did not fund big Wellington-based events and projects such as the International Festival of the Arts and the Karori Sanctuary.

"But if it could be proven that it [a rock arena] is a truly regional facility like the Westpac Stadium, then I think a case could be made for it to be funded through the region."

Mr Ogden said the arena could be funded through Greater Wellington regional council by a special rate.

The regional council already collects rates from all ratepayers in the region to pay for the Westpac Stadium.

Upper Hutt Mayor Wayne Guppy said there was a clear need for a rock arena in the region.

"Anyone who lives in Wellington can clearly see that we are losing out very, very badly to Auckland now that they have the large [12,000-seat] Vector Arena. There is no question about that."

The Vector Arena has attracted some of the biggest international rock acts, including the Red Hot Chili Peppers and Kings of Leon, since it opened in March last year. Kylie Minogue will perform there next month.

Mr Guppy said a cooperative approach was needed to find the most suitable place for an arena.

"If it is to be a regional approach, then where is the best place to site it? It might be the city, but it also might be Lower Hutt, Upper Hutt or Porirua."

Concert promoter Phil Sprey said the arena should be built on port land currently used to store logs, to the north of Westpac Stadium.

"You could bridge across to the stadium so it would become an annex to that facility."

He said the area above the Westpac Stadium concourse would probably be too small for a 10,000-seat concert venue and, if it was built there, mass congestion could ensue if concerts and sporting events were held at the same time.

Trains passing nearby could also pose noise problems during acoustic shows, he said.

Trains passing nearby could also pose noise problems during acoustic shows I wonder about that - does the Vector Arena in AKL have this problem? It's right next to the railway.

"If it is to be a regional approach, then where is the best place to site it? It might be the city, but it also might be Lower Hutt, Upper Hutt or Porirua." It should be in the city if you expect people to use public transport. Ever tried using PT to go from Porirua to the Hutt or vice versa? Hardly direct or convienent, whereas both have reasonable connections to Wellington.

The Issue of the train noise will be a valid one, fine for sporting events but not so good musical events!

^^ If that problem can be solved for the Vector Arena, it can be solved here too.

true, most things like this have an engineering solution. Would be a bit different because the rail goes around Vector, but would potentially go under the new wellington arena.

I have been thinking about this one a bit more. I love concerts and would enjoy a new Wellington Venue. But going up to 10,000 seats from 6,000 seated/GAand at Queens Wharf (TSB)? I am starting to wonder how many times this would be needed. Dont know the stats but it would be good to see how many of the concerts currently being held sell out and add to that the few concerts that miss Wellington because the venue is to small, but are not big enough to play outdoors. Personally I would like it but potentially this is one the politicians may back out of.

100million+ is a lot of money that would go a long way towards some other significant buildings or infrastructure.

Its a good point to consider.

As a comparison, it would be interesting to look at the events that have been on offer up to date at Vector, in comparison to what was on offer in other indoor venues prior to its completion. I suspect there is a world of difference.

From my limited knowledge of Auckland venues, I know Trusts Stadium out west holds about 5000, the North Shore Events Centre about the same . Is there an indoor concert venue somewhere else in Auckland that holds more than 5k?

If thats it, then I think its fair to say that - judging by the articles released everytime a new act is playing at the Vector - the decision to build a 10,000-12,000 seat venue in competition with existing venues half that size has been an unqualified success.

And thats close to what Wellington is looking at - in this case an increase from 6,000 to 10,000.

While we are all excited....

Is this what we have been waiting for in regards to an "iconic" building on the T-wharf? The site of the failed Hilton Hotel proposal?

Sure, its not big enough as it is, but perhaps the architects and engineers can think outside the square (or in this case, the "T").

Something hovering out over the water perhaps? The reckoned they could do it with a stadium on stilts straddling Auckland's Bledisloe wharf - why not something smaller here?

If it was on the wharf I would hope there would be plenty of other uses for the venue besides an indoor venue.

Too right - the log storage area would be a better spot but I gather it is prone to settlement?
That's what the big pile of dirt previously outside St John's bar was there for - to preload the land so as to minimise settlement when a building went onto it later.

They do say that if you build out over water your costs go up and not in a mild way..

Is there an indoor concert venue somewhere else in Auckland that holds more than 5k? The only other one in Auckland is the Mt Smart Supertop, which I believe holds about 10,000. Now that the Vector Arena is here this embarrasement of a venue is no pretty much redundant, with the exception of Big Day Out. International acts must have arrived and thought "We're playing in a Circus tent?":nuts:

But I'd say a better comparision for Wellington would be the Westpac Arena in Christchurch due to the similar population.

Thought for the day: if the indoor arena is indeed built next to Westpac Stadium on the concourse, would it be called the 'Cupcake Tin"? :)

Debate has been ongoing at eye of the fish (http://eyeofthefish.org/indoor-sports-centre/), and poneke's blog here (http://poneke.wordpress.com/2009/02/18/indoor/) and here (http://poneke.wordpress.com/2009/02/24/3654/). Latest is:

World Cup games at stake in indoor stadium stoush (http://www.stuff.co.nz/print/4861176a27348.html)
JIM CHIPP - The Wellingtonian | Thursday, 26 February 2009

Wellington stands to lose its 2011 Rugby World Cup games if the Cobham Park indoor sports centre is dropped in favour of a Westpac Stadium concourse alternative.

Wellington City Council has resource consent to build a $46 million indoor sports stadium at Cobham Park, but city councillor Andy Foster has appealed to the Environment Court against the consent.

Foster favours a central site above the concourse of Westpac Stadium, closer to the city centre and transport hubs.

Wellington City Council economic development and recreation portfolio leader John Morrison says the New Zealand Rugby Union's World Cup organisers have written to the council threatening to withdraw games from Westpac Stadium.

Nigel Cass, the tournament services manager of Rugby New Zealand 2011, the rugby union's World Cup organising company, wrote to the council pointing out that the IRB requires "clean" stadiums and that any construction work in the vicinity would be unacceptable.

"Most people accept that [clean stadiums] as 'no adverts' but, in fact, it involves no construction as well," Morrison says.

A stadium board member as well as a city councillor, Morrison says the board has considerable concern about the impact of a building on the concourse.

"There would be serious impacts over two or three years things like the Sevens would be bloody difficult, to put it bluntly, and now we're facing the loss of the World Cup," he says. "It's as simple as that: 'Have a building site there and we'll red-card you'."

A city council-commissioned independent peer review of its decision to build the Cobham Park Indoor Centre discounted the Westpac concourse site option very early on, Morrison says.

The review panel comprised Wellington Stadium Trust chief executive David Gray, Stadium Trust chairman Paul Collins and New Zealand Cricket chairman Alan Isaac.

For those that wonder what is proposed at the concourse, some pictures:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/569/38404652.jpg

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/1909/23248330.jpg

My question is: Could it not possibly be located elsewhere, but still near the station and stadium?

For example, what about here. The red outline the floor area of a two-level building would have enough room for 12 courts. A new connection would run through the ground floor and over the platforms as a bridge. Get rid of the spiral, just make it a curved bridge. This would provide better access to pipitea. It may be build now, or in the future in conjunction with lowering the platforms and building a cover over them, and providing access into the platforms from that bridge.
The brown outline shows the temporary re-routing of the concourse (a fairly cheap steel/concrete construction).
This would leave open whole possibilities for the future of the concource (including hopefully getting rid of it) and things like lowering the tracks or building over them in a *planned* way. And also room for a future indoor stadium to the north of the ISC.

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/47/pipiteaiscsite.jpg

I drew a quick sketch of what it may look like, you'll need to use serious imagination as I don't unfortunately have any 3d software (or skills) to do some nice renders. But I pictured something quite well designed, an accessible green roof perhaps, etc. It would be two floors, each probably about 12-15m or so high (not sure what the indoor height needs to be, but thats an estimation based of the current plans). Best of all, its a ground level accessible building, not a fortress on top of a carpark.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6826/pipiteaiscsketch.jpg

The land at the area is just a car park at the moment, with the concourse the only major obstacle, but as mentioned I think this would be fairly cheap to remove/replace elsewhere.

Thoughts? Impossible to do something more like this?

Erentz: I think the problem with your site is that it is too small,

If you look where they the council renders show the centre, the walkway widens out alot at that point for the entry gates, so they have a very large site, much larger than the area you have proposed, I would guess your proposed footprint is 30% smaller?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3437/3313029040_96bc9f6630.jpg?v=0

I was thinking of a two level building. Unless there is something that prohibits it. Sure the height of each floor would need be large, like maybe up to 15m, but ~30m is still not an inappropriate height for the area.

Here is roughly how I was thinking the floor layouts might look, to scale, with 12 full size netball courts shown, 7 on the ground floor, and 5 on the top floor. The facilities and elevators and such could be loacated in the triangle shaped spaces at the edges (with the entrances).

Because the building is divided into 4 separate sections, it makes it quite suitable for renting out some sections for conferences and the like too when they aren't being used. (Although I understand there is a desire for a dedicated unshared facility so this may not be seen as a bonus.)

Because of the reduced number of courts on the top floor there is room to provide some seating too if desired...

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3673/pipiteaiscfloorsketches.jpg

The District plan allows you to have up to 50 m heights in that area (I think it got tweaked when that "towers over the railyards" concept got floated before the 87 sharemarket crash. so height is not really an issue.

..But, and here is the Rub, having to support a floor and all the other amenities on the 1st floor means you need a much more significant ( and expensive) building on the lower portion.

The joy of a one storied thing is that you can have a 20 m ceiling held up by not much, as it is really not bearing a heavy load, but to hold a floor up is another matter,

As an aside, does anyone know if there are any multi story buildings that have 2 courts above each other ( with the pre requisite high ceilings)

Hadn't considered that. You would have up to 20m spans width-wise over the courts supporting the second floor.

Mind you the proposed concourse stadium is a floor above the concourse and two floors of carparks, but I suppose they don't have to support those courts on 20m spans.

It's probably perfectly feasible, just, as you say, may be a cost issue. I wonder if there are any architecture or engineering types here who could shed more light on that...?

I don't know of any multi story buildings like that myself. Plenty of examples of rooftop courts around, but not courts above courts. (Surely if anywhere, Japan has them!)

We’ve agreed on the sports centre site. But when did we agree to spend $53m?
April 27, 2009Article, Column, Opinion, Politics
Wellington.Scoop
by Lindsay Shelton
The city council has done a flawless job in getting a consensus, beyond all reasonable doubt, about the Cobham Park site for a new indoor sports centre. But it’s difficult to track any process of gathering support for the cost, which has now risen to more than $50m.


Only three years ago the council announced that the sports centre would have eight courts and would cost $29m. Within a year, the project had grown to twelve courts and the cost was $40m.

When this year’s planning process started – with a stated aim of cutting spending by $3m a year for ten years - the council listed the sports centre as a project which it was committed to building, but the cost wasn’t mentioned. The cost was also left out of the council’s announcement that the project had been given resource consent.

Perhaps this evasiveness indicated embarrassment that the figure had risen to $46m - more public money than was spent on the Westpac Stadium (which ratepayers are still paying for).

In Sir John Anderson’s independent report we discover that the cost has gone up again. The sports centre will cost $49.5 million plus gst plus $3.6million for the land. And don’t forget the operating costs: the report specifies car parking, maintenance, energy. To which I’ll add staff salaries, and the fact that another million or two will be needed to furnish the place.

In a letter in February, the Mayor defined the cost in a different way: including interest and depreciation, it would be $5.2million per year, with 75 per cent paid by ratepayers. But there’s been no independent review to check the wisdom of the $50m commitment which this involves. And as the cost was left out of this year’s consultation process, no one had a chance to question it.

Sir John makes an emotional claim about what we’ll get for our money. There’s a “desperate need” for the indoor sports centre, says his report, and the council repeats the desperation in a headline across its weekly advertisement in the Dominion Post. (An advertisement which fails to mention the cost.)

The centre “will contribute to the aim of getting more Wellingtonians more active, more often, through regular physical activity and addressing health issues through more sedentary lifestyles.” There’s more: “75 to 80 per cent of users will be everyday Wellingtonians.”

Which makes it sound a bit like a council swimming pool. If you’re an everyday Wellingtonian and you want to do some exercise, just call in to the new sports centre? Well, no. To use the sports centre you’ll need to be a regular participant in one of three indoor sports, which are already making claims for more than the centre can provide.

Netball Wellington has a vision of using all 12 courts.

Which wouldn’t leave any room for the Wellington Basketball Association which wants fulltime use (outside school hours) of four to six of the 12 courts, plus three more for major events.

And then there’s Wellington Volleyball (it already has indoor courts in Porirua and Lower Hutt) which intends to attract “many regional, national (124 teams, 2000 participants) and international competitions to Wellington.”

These three “anchor sports” want to cater for an “untapped demand for … community based games for everyday Wellingtonians”. There we are again, the everyday Wellingtonians. As long as we play netball, volleyball or basketball. The report mentions minority sports such as handball, korfball and indoor soccer but it’s hard to see how they’ll get a look in once the big three have carved up the timeslots.

The report refers fleetingly to other sports played by everyday Wellingtonians. Rugby, cricket and soccer have used Cobham Park for 35 years. They too complain about a shortage of playing fields in Wellington. But when the sports centre is built, they’ll have fewer places to play.

And it seems that one sports centre won’t be enough. “A subsequent decision on where to build the second centre to ensure these sports continue to grow and meet demand is inevitable,” states Sir John’s report. Inevitable? Surely not till we’ve finished paying off the $50m loan for the first one.

We need a proper indoor arena, hope is a great word, wellington should go one better then Auckland and build a 15 000 seat arena that will attract big events. I'm sick of auckland getting all the big acts, the semi finals and final of RWC 2011, etc...yes we know they have a bigger population, but there so much infighting with all there councils. eg (ARC and Auckland city council, They can't even agree on building a national stadium on the waterfront. Infact..why not go one better and upgrade Wellington's Westpac stadium? why not do a feasibility study on increasing a second and third tier and adding a retractable roof. That way the weather can't intefere with sporting events and it could make the stadium the one of the best in the world!!

"build it, and they will come!"

"build it, and they will come!"

No they wont, and the locals get lumbered with the bill...

All of the events you have mentioned, Concerts and rugby world cup, are private professional ventures,

Let them build this mythical stadium,

The Wellington Stadium, is a perfect size for the population it serves, if you built something for 100,000 ppl, it would be embarrassingly empty for 90% of the time. whereas the money could be better spent on improving public transport or elsewhere on regional infrastructure.

It will be interesting to see what the long term viability of the new Glasshouse in Dunedin is, given it is supposedly around 30,000 - But cannot be used for cricket? I do wish them all the best of luck, and hope they have done their sums right, but an indoor stadium for Dunedin Rugby is certainly the way to go.

If the Cake Tin had a roof, then it would definitely require a greater capacity as I think more people would attend events in winter.

Right now its probably OK, but personally I think the permanent capacity should have been 40,000 (its now 35,000 I think, plus temporary seating).

In terms of a concert venue, I think Wellington could do with and indoor venue around Vector Arena's size (10,000-12,000) but you run the risk of duplication of venues. Therefore, I think Queens Wharf should be redeveloped - if only to improve its visual impact on an increasingly attarctive waterfront. Currently, its a bit of an eyesore.

No they wont, and the locals get lumbered with the bill...

All of the events you have mentioned, Concerts and rugby world cup, are private professional ventures,

Let them build this mythical stadium,

The Wellington Stadium, is a perfect size for the population it serves, if you built something for 100,000 ppl, it would be embarrassingly empty for 90% of the time. whereas the money could be better spent on improving public transport or elsewhere on regional infrastructure.

It will be interesting to see what the long term viability of the new Glasshouse in Dunedin is, given it is supposedly around 30,000 - But cannot be used for cricket? I do wish them all the best of luck, and hope they have done their sums right, but an indoor stadium for Dunedin Rugby is certainly the way to go.

Good point. Well it would be nice to see a retractable half dome roof funded by a private investor...Wish I was bill gates best friend. Oh well dreams are for free. There are some new stadiums eg Kazakstan who have built a 30 000 seat stadium with retractable roof. The dunedin stadium will not be playing cricket there. Cricket will be played at the university oval, which i am glad because I have never liked the game played at a rectangle pitch. ie Eden Park. It's just not cricket.

If the Cake Tin had a roof, then it would definitely require a greater capacity as I think more people would attend events in winter.

Right now its probably OK, but personally I think the permanent capacity should have been 40,000 (its now 35,000 I think, plus temporary seating).

In terms of a concert venue, I think Wellington could do with and indoor venue around Vector Arena's size (10,000-12,000) but you run the risk of duplication of venues. Therefore, I think Queens Wharf should be redeveloped - if only to improve its visual impact on an increasingly attarctive waterfront. Currently, its a bit of an eyesore.

I agree, TSB looks like an ugly duckling but i do hope that in the future that wellington can come up with there own unique indoor arena that seats 10 to 12 thousand people. Maybe a paua coloured design to match the 2 pumpkins at the airport terminal. :)

Its a good point to consider.

As a comparison, it would be interesting to look at the events that have been on offer up to date at Vector, in comparison to what was on offer in other indoor venues prior to its completion. I suspect there is a world of difference.

From my limited knowledge of Auckland venues, I know Trusts Stadium out west holds about 5000, the North Shore Events Centre about the same . Is there an indoor concert venue somewhere else in Auckland that holds more than 5k?

For sporting events Vector holds 12,200, Trusts Stadium Arena, Henderson 4901, North Shore Events centre 4500, TelstraClear Pacific Events Centre, Manukau holding 3000.

For concerts, especially with no setting on the ground floor I would say a good 1 or 2,000 more per arena.

Perfect examples of duplication and waist.

Wellington needs a world class indoor arena, It will compliment the westpac stadium. Vector Arena in auckland costs $80mil to build and seats approx 12k. Wellington should either match that or cater for 10k. It will certainly pull in the wellington public and overseas stars. :):):):nuts::):)

Absolutely positively Wellywood!

^^ The Vector Arena was built using a PPP, and it has worked very well, get into it Wellington.

Have a look at the Liverpool Echo Arena & Convention Centre.Liverpool didn't have a large indoor venue until this opened.Multi use from indoor moto cross to Queen,Clapton and last week Tom Jones.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/local/3551851/Hard-luck-Metallica-want-a-roof-to-raise

Metallica skip Wellington because of lack of venue

The capacity of Wellington's TSB Bank Arena could be doubled to 10,000 seats, as pressure for a mid-sized concert venue gathers steam.

A stream of international acts are skipping Wellington in favour of Auckland's Vector Arena, leading to calls for a similar-sized venue in Wellington.

Metal legends Metallica are the latest act to skip the capital because of its lack of a big indoor venue. The band are expected to play at the Vector Arena, which can hold 12,200, in November.

Wellington Mayor Kerry Prendergast said yesterday that expanding the 5000-seat TSB Bank Arena was one option to combat the problem. However, that would be "a big ask".

A 2008 feasibility study had already identified the need for a mid-sized concert venue in Wellington.

A second report would examine the cost, and possible sites for an arena, which could cost as much as $100 million.

This was on hold while work on the future of Queens Wharf was under way.

Wellington Waterfront chief executive Ian Pike said a steering group was developing a "master-plan" for the future of Queens Wharf. It was early days but expanding the capacity of TSB Arena was a possibility, he said.

"The steering group has a very wide brief. TSB is a great facility but there are limited numbers, and we pride ourselves as the events capital."

In recent years Wellington has missed out on Stevie Wonder, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Foo Fighters and Rod Stewart. Last month Lady Gaga and Pixies both played Auckland's Vector Arena.

That highlighted the need for a 10,000-seat arena in Wellington, Westpac Stadium marketing manager Steven Thompson said. "It's the one thing we're missing."

Metallica announced at a recent press conference in Colombia that they would head to New Zealand in November.

Mr Thompson said talks with promoters around Christmas revealed that Metallica were planning an arena tour. That put Wellington out of the running, with the Vector Arena the most likely venue to score the gig.

Wellington still drew some big acts – for example, AC/DC in January – but would pull even more with a big indoor venue. "There's no doubt, if we build an international-quality 10,000-seat venue, they will come."

Metallica rocked Wellington in 1998 when they played to a "seething mass of 4000 metallers" at the Queens Wharf Events Centre – now the TSB Arena.

Concert promoter Phil Sprey said fewer bands were playing outdoor stadiums these days.

The best place for a new arena would be across the road from Westpac Stadium, he said.

Metallica fan Cornelios Floratos, 25, said it was financially draining to travel to Auckland for gigs.

The teacher said he would probably head to Auckland for Metallica if they toured in November.

"I've been a fan for about 13 years."

Rumours of Wellington shows by Barbra Streisand and U2 have not come to anything yet.

Mr Sprey believed it was unlikely the reclusive Streisand would come.

U2 were a possibility as part of a future world tour.

I can't really see how TSB can be extended to double its capacity - there is limited space around it (with the exception of the playground behind it?)

Besides, its a bit of an eyesore on the waterfront. Scrap it for a new facility near the Cake Tin, and develop TSB into something more appropriate.

Maybe Wellington should have bought the Supertop for $10 ;)

^^ The Vector Arena was built using a PPP, and it has worked very well, get into it Wellington.

Only for the council. Mainzeal lost $20 million on the build and I suspect construction companies would be very reluctant to enter into a similar price controlled contract again.

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/569/38404652.jpg
wow I like that

Surely for someone like Metallica you would host the concert in Westpac Stadium

Not bad is it.

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/569/38404652.jpg

The only thing I would say is its a bit of a boring design/shape. But its probably restricted by the footprint and the need to compliment the stadium. Were it to be somewhere else, you could really get experimental with the design

I think the issue with metallica using the Cale Tin may have been the unpredictable weather in the capital around December.

I would have thought Mt Smart Stadium and the Cake Tin and/or AMI Stadium would be the go for Metallica, however the article states

Mr Thompson said talks with promoters around Christmas revealed that Metallica were planning an arena tour.

Looking at the tour page on their website it seems it mainly is indoor arenas they are playing, but are few big outdoor venues are included. I wouldn't have thought the weather would matter too much, Wellington have had their fair share of outdoor gigs at that time of year.

It's all back on the table...

Capital ideas on an arena for big acts (http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/4351994/Capital-ideas-on-an-arena-for-big-acts)