By popular request :)

Thanks Mr Tanz, must be a popular discussion considering its such a small 'country' for aviation purposes!

Thanks Mr Tanz, must be a popular discussion considering its such a small 'country' for aviation purposes!

Yes, certainly all you deshi aviators are a major motive force in this subforum. Honestly there is too much stuff posted here for me to follow on a regular basis...which of course is wonderful but also why I seldom post in the aviation threads...I would have to go back a few thousand posts and start reading there, to get caught up to the point in the discussion where you guys are.

I would have to go back a few thousand posts and start reading there, to get caught up to the point in the discussion where you guys are.

Never mind...just take the plunge in 'as-is/where-is' basis and you'll be in the stream...we're a bunch of extremely accommodating nuts here! :D

I recently conducted a business role for an aviation group that was interested in utlising 19 / 29 seats in Asia.

I have the figures here, it wont take me long to convert to Bangladesh style of operations if someone is intersted, costs, etc?

I recently conducted a business role for an aviation group that was interested in utlising 19 / 29 seats in Asia.

I have the figures here, it wont take me long to convert to Bangladesh style of operations if someone is intersted, costs, etc?

With the condition of having no invoice raised to me/us*, you are more than welcome to share your numbers! :)

* with the exception of QGR! :P :D

With the condition of having no invoice raised to me/us*, you are more than welcome to share your numbers! :)

* with the exception of QGR! :P :D

Well well well.... May I know the reason for such honor???!!! :ohno:

I must admit, I expected a better way to break my temporary silence in this forum (and new one too...) than this open invitation to hit me with invoices... :fiddle:

So what's hot in aviation sector (my apology for not really catching up... you know.... the banking sector is not really going through a great time)?

Honestly there is too much stuff posted here for me to follow on a regular basis....

Yup, its busier than the rest of the forums put together.

Well well well.... May I know the reason for such honor???!!! :ohno:

I must admit, I expected a better way to break my temporary silence in this forum (and new one too...) than this open invitation to hit me with invoices... :fiddle:

So what's hot in aviation sector (my apology for not really catching up... you know.... the banking sector is not really going through a great time)?


Your bloody right.... most of my work means dealing with financial organisations over funded equity.

In the weeks to the 'financial crisis' I was swarming with multiple deals with several companies. The two weeks since it hard hit no less than fourteen cases has been put on hold :bash::bash:

Work is drying up, quite fast and quite quickly :(

Hello everybody. I am back after a VERY long time. nice to hear from you all again.

Well well well.... May I know the reason for such honor???!!! :ohno:

I must admit, I expected a better way to break my temporary silence in this forum (and new one too...) than this open invitation to hit me with invoices... :fiddle:

So what's hot in aviation sector (my apology for not really catching up... you know.... the banking sector is not really going through a great time)?

I thought you were (and you are!) an invoice-friendly banker-cum-aviation enthusiast friend of ours...and hence the suggestion to Skystar320 who surely sounds like he could happily raise you an invoice in these tough days of making businesses work! :)

I have found another benefit of operating C5A Galaxy. That is it won't have to land at the destination airport. Passengers & luggages will be paradropped. It would save the landing & other charges.:banana:

Hello everybody. I am back after a VERY long time. nice to hear from you all again.

Great to hear from you again! We've been making noises here all along! :)

I have found another benefit of operating C5A Galaxy. That is it won't have to land at the destination airport. Passengers & luggages will be paradropped. It would save the landing & other charges.:banana:

Ummm...right...but since it'd have to land somewhere, don't you think it'd be ideal for it to land where it could've been taking the pax?

Besides, paradropping on intl flights could cause some immigration issues...I mean, these pax could've been throwing their hands and legs all through their "arrival" process and that might have caused them to drift a bit too far away for anybody's convenience! :D

Ummm...right...but since it'd have to land somewhere, don't you think it'd be ideal for it to land where it could've been taking the pax?

Besides, paradropping on intl flights could cause some immigration issues...I mean, these pax could've been throwing their hands and legs all through their "arrival" process and that might have caused them to drift a bit too far away for anybody's convenience! :D

And since when has BG started to be concerned about anybody's convenience?:lol:

And since when has BG started to be concerned about anybody's convenience?:lol:

Oh so true! And here's their latest: Since they realized, a bit late nonetheless, that operating the leased 737-800s to KUL and SIN isn't quite working out, and that they can't possibly take any more than 150 pax and their baggage, they've devised a brilliant (pun intended) plan to NOT sell the remaining 39 seats, but not declare them 'unsaleable' due to load-penalty either. What they've planned to do is to sell the 150 seats at the regular fare, and price the remaining 39 abnormally high so as to scare pax away!

Their advert published in local newspapers about 3 weeks ago had fast turned into a mockery when they had to leave behind pax baggage at KUL and SIN since the introduction of the 738s on the routes. Carrying 150 pax and their baggage is resulting in the 738s being unable to take any revenue cargo, meaning that operating the A310s or even the DC-10s on these routes could be more feasible, considering the avg market available and tha fact that they could take up the rev cargo. But operating the A310/DC-10s to KUL and SIN would mean that BG would fall waaayyy short of operating the 2x 738s for a cumulative 500 hrs/month, and would yet have to pay for them as the min guaranteed hrs.

So, don't be surprised if you're told by the man over the ticket counter at Biman that the person ahead of you bought his ticket to KUL for 400 dollars and that you'd have to pay 800 for your one (for being the 151th pax) and will be carried under the condition that your baggage will arrive within a week's time only after you reach your destination! :)

I thought you were (and you are!) an invoice-friendly banker-cum-aviation enthusiast friend of ours...and hence the suggestion to Skystar320 who surely sounds like he could happily raise you an invoice in these tough days of making businesses work! :)


Seeing I have shelved out nearly $5k worth of flights over the next couple of months, my bank account is looking a tad bare!

Could do we another invoice

But....... Could U afford me???

http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/2008/11/shenzhen-air-applies-dhaka-service.html

Shenzhen Airlines has issued an application with the CAAC for launching 3 weekly Shenzhen - Dhaka route from March 2009

It plans to operate either Boeing 737 or Airbus 320 on this route

http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/2008/11/shenzhen-air-applies-dhaka-service.html

Shenzhen Airlines has issued an application with the CAAC for launching 3 weekly Shenzhen - Dhaka route from March 2009

It plans to operate either Boeing 737 or Airbus 320 on this route

This will take the no. of Mainland Chinese airlines operating to DAC to 2. Why doesn't BG start DAC-PKK with A310/DC-10 now that these 2 types aren't used on SIN/KUL/DEL routes?

I went to the website of Royal Bengal Airlines and saw that they fly to non-traditional routes like Chittagong-Sylhet and Chittagong-Jessore. How are those routes doing?

Seeing I have shelved out nearly $5k worth of flights over the next couple of months, my bank account is looking a tad bare!

Could do we another invoice

But....... Could U afford me???

A purpose for doing so will have to be found at the first place.

This will take the no. of Mainland Chinese airlines operating to DAC to 2. Why doesn't BG start DAC-PKK with A310/DC-10 now that these 2 types aren't used on SIN/KUL/DEL routes?

It's hard (read: impossible) to instill sensibility into this airline. Here's an example: there are far more Bangladeshis in Singapore and Malaysia than Singaporeans and Malaysians in Bangladesh. This generally means that the Bangladeshis in Singapore and Malaysia would be generally more inclined to fly on their native country's carrier than on SQ or MH given that the airline has enough capacity to address the demand. In reality, it is SQ and MH who has consistently provided more capacity than BG ever did...and now BG has gone a step farther by cutting down the capacity from DC-10/A310 to the 737-800! On the other hand, TG had announced a month ago that they'll be adding capacity to DAC by putting 7x A330-300s/week up from the current 5x A330+2x A300s to be effective from 16 Dec and this will add significant cargo capacity, and what BG has done is put the 737-800s on BKK too, trying to justify it by referring to the relatively poor pax load factor while TG is looking to fill up their A330-300s. Yes, TG is a network carrier and hence has pax feed for onward flights through BKK, but even if you consider the pure traffic between DAC and BKK, there's no reason why BG can't do better, unless of course they want to bite the dust on an urgent basis!

It should definitely fly to China and go places...but who's listening?!?

Your bloody right.... most of my work means dealing with financial organisations over funded equity.

In the weeks to the 'financial crisis' I was swarming with multiple deals with several companies. The two weeks since it hard hit no less than fourteen cases has been put on hold :bash::bash:

Work is drying up, quite fast and quite quickly :(

You should thank your lucky star that you're in Australia... if you were in US or even in Bangladesh, well, just don't try to imagine further....

.....Carrying 150 pax and their baggage is resulting in the 738s being unable to take any revenue cargo, meaning that operating the A310s or even the DC-10s on these routes could be more feasible, considering the avg market available and tha fact that they could take up the rev cargo.....

Something a mere common sense will tell you... BG should rather operate these 150+ seaters from CGP to regional routes. From DAC, BG should find a suitable replacement of of Airbus 310 and/or DC 10, some 250-odd seater.

Something a mere common sense will tell you... BG should rather operate these 150+ seaters from CGP to regional routes. From DAC, BG should find a suitable replacement of of Airbus 310 and/or DC 10, some 250-odd seater.

Common sense is long extinct at Biman. It is the most ridiculous and the most nonsensical of senses that rules at BG! :bash:

Wondering where will BA be flying those 777s that they're pulling out of DAC on March 28th? I stated in the earlier thread that it could most likely be somewhere in the Middle-East, and here goes the confirmation:

British Airways will resume flights to Jeddah and Riyadh from March 29, 2009

The airline will fly five times each week from Heathrow Terminal 5 to both Jeddah and Riyadh. Flights to Riyadh will operate on a 4 class Boeing 777-200ER and Jeddah flights will be on a Boeing 767-300ER.

"Robert Boyle, British Airways' commercial director, said: 'Resuming these flights makes commercial sense. The oil market is increasingly important globally and inward investment into Saudi Arabia has risen considerably in the last couple of years.

"'We can start these flights now because the aviation market between Britain and Saudi Arabia has recently been liberalised.'

"British Airways suspended services to Riyadh and Jeddah in March 2005 due to poor commercial performance on the route.

"Next summer, British Airways will fly to 150 destinations around the world".

British Airways will resume flights to Jeddah and Riyadh from March 29, 2009

Bye bye Air Sylhet (if they ever launch that is)!

Wondering where will BA be flying those 777s that they're pulling out of DAC on March 28th? I stated in the earlier thread that it could most likely be somewhere in the Middle-East, and here goes the confirmation:

[i]British Airways will resume flights to Jeddah and Riyadh from March 29, 2009



While I no have stats to base my thoughts, BA, in time, will find that their JED/RUH route will not perform any better than DAC.

They have daily double to BOM. Do they fill up every single seat, to and from?

While I no have stats to base my thoughts, BA, in time, will find that their JED/RUH route will not perform any better than DAC.

Could be a different scenario now to justify the resumption of flights, especially considering:

Robert Boyle, British Airways' commercial director, said: 'Resuming these flights makes commercial sense. The oil market is increasingly important globally and inward investment into Saudi Arabia has risen considerably in the last couple of years.

We can start these flights now because the aviation market between Britain and Saudi Arabia has recently been liberalised.'

The oil industry itself may generate significant traffic synergy between the KSA and the UK, and the increasingly liberal aviation policies may also open up opportunities that were never possible earlier.

United Airways flies to Syedpur (http://bdnews24.com/details.php?id=69650&cid=2)
Dhaka, Nov 26— Private carrier United Airways inaugurated its Dhaka-Syedpur flight on Wednesday.

The plane left Zia International Airport for Syedpur at 2.30 p.m. and left Syedpur for the return leg to Dhaka at 3.45 p.m.

"To ensure convenient communication, we want to operate flights on all routes of Bangladesh," said chairman Tasbirul Ahmed Chowdhury, while inaugurating the new flight.

"Due to improved service and an efficient workforce, we have become the leading aviation organisation in the domestic route," said the chairman.

"The domestic route is used by about 3.5 lakh people and 40 per cent of that is flown by us."

"Three days a week (Saturday, Monday, Wednesday), United will operate a flight on the Dhaka-Syedpur route," said public relations officer Qamrul Islam.

A one way fare, including VAT, will be Tk 5495, he said.

"But for the inauguration, special rates at Tk 3000 are being offered."

With 95 per cent funds from expatriate Bangladeshis, United Airways began operation on July 10, 2007.

At present, the airline operates flights on the Dhaka-Kolkata, Dhaka-Chittagong, Dhaka-Sylhet, Dhaka-Jessore, Dhaka-Barisal and Dhaka-Cox's Bazar route with two 32-seater Canadian Dash-8-100 aircrafts.

State carrier Biman Bangladesh Airlines stopped operation on the Dhaka-Syedpur flight in Feb, 2007. Royal Bengal Airlines, another private carrier company also funded by expatriates, restarted flights on this route from Aug 26 this year.

Shortage of passengers: Flight of Biman Air United Airlines on Barisal-Dhaka route on the verge of closure (http://nation.ittefaq.com/issues/2008/11/26/news0185.htm)

Flight of Biman Air United Airlines on Barisal-Dhaka air route appears to be on the verge of closure due to shortage of passengers. Special reduced fare rate has been offered by this private airline but little response is received from passengers. This air route was resumed on 28th September last after remaining closed for about two years.

United Air fixed fare rate at Taka 4,495 including taxes for one way trip and Taka 8990 for a trip with return journey. Flight contained for three days a week. Though it has a capacity of 37 passengers but more than two-third seats remain unoccupied in almost each flight. To reduce the loss United Air has offered to sell each seat at attracts 2250 if booking be done 72 hours ahead. But even this offer has failed to altruist passengers who mostly prefer to travel by launch or bus. The airline is maintaining the air route despite heavy loss but it is doubtful whether it can continue much longer. The officer in charge Abul Hassan has expressed disappointment at the number of passengers but said that they would try to maintain the aerial route.

Biman Bangladesh used to ply on this route at a profitable rate compared to other aerial routes of the country. Yet Biman closed down the route on 29th October of 2006. As a result, the airport built at a cost of Taka 30 crores became a useless cattle-grazing ground and a den of anti-social elements. The air route was resumed after about two years but again is about to he closed due to passenger crisis.
I think they're talking about United Airways :)

Shortage of passengers: Flight of Biman Air United Airlines on Barisal-Dhaka route on the verge of closure (http://nation.ittefaq.com/issues/2008/11/26/news0185.htm)


I think they're talking about United Airways :)

Nightmarish stuff...the English I mean! :wallbash:

Biman Air United???? Thats a new one

Or has Biman consolodated with United?

You should thank your lucky star that you're in Australia... if you were in US or even in Bangladesh, well, just don't try to imagine further....

I guess we are all in the same boat, but people worse than others. What I dont understand is people panicking over virtually nothing..... thus decreasing the shares etc etc :bash::bash::bash::bash::bash:

What I dont understand is people panicking over virtually nothing..... thus decreasing the shares etc etcI guess you could say the same for when they were increasing :lol: - particularly the oil price which reached record levels on pure speculation with no significant change in demand/supply.

I guess you could say the same for when they were increasing :lol: - particularly the oil price which reached record levels on pure speculation with no significant change in demand/supply.

Look at it now $50! I'll drink to that :cheers:

I guess you could say the same for when they were increasing :lol: - particularly the oil price which reached record levels on pure speculation with no significant change in demand/supply.

The speculations were twofold: (i) that there was going to be a crisis of supply soon, and that (ii) the prices will never go below US$150/b and was going to hit the 200-dollar mark, again "soon"!

While I no have stats to base my thoughts, BA, in time, will find that their JED/RUH route will not perform any better than DAC.

They have daily double to BOM. Do they fill up every single seat, to and from?

Well, at least for the time being, every return flight from BOM to LHR should be pretty full...considering how the Westerners got targeted by the terrorists!

Well, at least for the time being, every return flight from BOM to LHR should be pretty full...considering how the Westerners got targeted by the terrorists!

Windfall for BA thanks to the terrorists.

The speculations were twofold: (i) that there was going to be a crisis of supply soon, and that (ii) the prices will never go below US$150/b and was going to hit the 200-dollar mark, again "soon"!

I expect the price of crude to return to the $80/100 range as soon as the US economy recovers.

What bugs me though is that using the high oil price a convenient excuse, all US carriers other than some LCCs (notably WN) instituted all kinds of extra charges and fees (like checked baggage) and have even eliminated meals service on many international routes. Now that the price of crude has crashed, do you think they'll rescind those charges and resume meal service? Scums!

Shortage of passengers: Flight of Biman Air United Airlines on Barisal-Dhaka route on the verge of closure (http://nation.ittefaq.com/issues/2008/11/26/news0185.htm)


The Bangladesh domestic private carriers should seriously consider deploying those 19 seaters, as Imran, Skystar, et al, have been suggesting. This will not only make those routes viable but establish the domestic aviation market as well, once for all.

Winfall for BA thanks to the terrorists.

And guess what, the British Foreign Office will pay the ticket fare of BOM-LHR for Britons who are desperate to escape the besieged city.

And guess what, the British Foreign Office will pay the ticket fare of BOM-LHR for Britons who are desperate to escape the besieged city.

The recent BOM incident will create a negative impact on five star/luxury hotels across the globe, especially in major international cities. People will become cautious and book in lesser known establishments.

The Bangladesh domestic private carriers should seriously consider deploying those 19 seaters, as Imran, Skystar, et al, have been suggesting. This will not only make those routes viable but establish the domestic aviation market as well, once for all.


It's easier said than done really. What the domestic carriers have in mind with the Dash 8 is once their ambitions of going international, the flow on affect should see an increased on carriage to regional destinations. General rule of thumb

[On the lesser extent you can see why Biman run 737's domestic as well as 70seater jets - as an example a rather crummy one at least]

Really and Ideally these carriers should have two sets of aircraft type and ideally the same type of manufacturer. i.e 19 seater BAe 32's & 29 seater BAe 41's or as Isafi mentioned a couple of Beech 1900D's

From here you can 'throw' these smaller aircraft on routes that are very marginal at least, or new to get the feel of the demand. Though if your lucky you can always throw the 19seaters on the main trunk routes for

A) additional capacity
B) or during the day where demand is typically lower

Taken from my recent proposal put forward to a regional airline, based on a yearly average of 2,000 hours I came up with a DOC on one particular route similar to Dhaka - Chittagong of $750 per hour for the BAe 32 & $1,050 for the BAe 41.

Mind you I did promise to run the example's for the bangladesh aviation market for everyone to see

The recent BOM incident will create a negative impact on five star/luxury hotels across the globe, especially in major international cities. People will become cautious and book in lesser known establishments.

Very doubtful to say at least... you may see that the case in African / Asian countries

also on the fact that for the private airline to change their fleet would also incur additional costs to retraining staff, AOC etc. so thats why private airlines are stuck with them!

It's easier said than done really. What the domestic carriers have in mind with the Dash 8 is once their ambitions of going international, the flow on affect should see an increased on carriage to regional destinations. General rule of thumb

[On the lesser extent you can see why Biman run 737's domestic as well as 70seater jets - as an example a rather crummy one at least]

Really and Ideally these carriers should have two sets of aircraft type and ideally the same type of manufacturer. i.e 19 seater BAe 32's & 29 seater BAe 41's or as Isafi mentioned a couple of Beech 1900D's

From here you can 'throw' these smaller aircraft on routes that are very marginal at least, or new to get the feel of the demand. Though if your lucky you can always throw the 19seaters on the main trunk routes for

A) additional capacity
B) or during the day where demand is typically lower

Taken from my recent proposal put forward to a regional airline, based on a yearly average of 2,000 hours I came up with a DOC on one particular route similar to Dhaka - Chittagong of $750 per hour for the BAe 32 & $1,050 for the BAe 41.

Mind you I did promise to run the example's for the bangladesh aviation market for everyone to see

I have opinions which are not contradictory to yours, but are from a different perspective.

Firstly, GMG chose the Dash-8s to begin with 10 years ago because ATR apparently gave them a cold shoulder, and Bombardier was glad to help out. United and Royal Bengal's choice for the Dash-8 was primarily driven by the fact that they intended to 'steal' the Dash-8 centric resources (pilots, mx people, etc) GMG had built, therefore not having to spend on developing capabilities on a different aircraft type.

Secondly, the intl plans United and RBA has disclosed so far will almost certainly head for the same result as GMG's (thus far), and therefore, being rather stupid plans by themselves, I don't think those routes will end up feeding enough pax for domestic/regional routes to justify the Dash-8s...only CGP and ZYL might be worthwhile for feeding pax to/from DAC for flights to the Middle-East, but the intl flights themselves is likely to have very poor yields, unless the business environment for the local airline industry changes drastically.

The example of Biman operating the B737s and the F-28s simultaneously is quite irrelevant as there is absolutely no sense behind doing so....they're compelled to keep flying the F-28s because Pegasus' B737s won't do short legs, and Biman's fleet planning (which is largely ridiculous) resists induction of any aircraft to replace the F-28s which are not among the types ordered with Boeing (i.e. no Dash-8s or ATRs to replace the F-28s). I'm of the opinion that the F-28s should get thrown out of Biman asap, even if it means suspending routes operated by them for an indefinite period. As an aircraft I admired the F-28s in its days, but considering that it burns TWICE AS MUCH FUEL than the 737-800 while carrying LESS THAN 50% PAX, I really don't have any fancies left for the Fellowships any more.

The 19-seater Beech-1900D's or the BAe-31's should make good sense for commuter travelling within Bangladesh (I personally prefer the Beech-1900D's because of its super-dependable P&W PT6 powerplants over the Garrett TPE331's on the BAe 31), but if an airline has sensible intl ops, it'll have to have an A320/B737 class of an airplane to handle the regional and domestic (CGP & ZYL) feeds.

Imran, now that BA have pulled out of DAC, is there a greater likelyhood of seeing DAC-ZYL-LHR-ZYL-DAC route from Biman?

In fact, will BG be allowed to operate from LHR come summer? I'd be surprised if they managed to meet the 80% target at LHR.

Imran, now that BA have pulled out of DAC, is there a greater likelyhood of seeing DAC-ZYL-LHR-ZYL-DAC route from Biman?

In fact, will BG be allowed to operate from LHR come summer? I'd be surprised if they managed to meet the 80% target at LHR.

BG will not be able to operate ZYL-LHR because in order to do that they'll have to allow BA to do LHR-ZYL-LHR as well. Whether BA would still want to do that or not is another question altogether.

In the past, Bangladesh proposed to UK that BG should be allowed to operate out of any point in Bangladesh into LHR in the UK in return for which BA would be allowed to operate out of any point in the UK into DAC in Bangladesh. Obviously, that was a smart proposal by Bangladesh which however didn't outsmart the Brits! They wanted BA to be allowed out of any point in the UK to operate to any point in Bangladesh, in return for which they were willing to allow BG out of any point in Bangladesh into any point in the UK.

From what I'm told, in the 123rd IATA Schedules Conference held in Athens a couple of weeks ago BG has been allowed 4x weekly frequencies into LHR in the coming summer season by the UK authorities. The flight timings might be readjusted though.

BG will not be able to operate ZYL-LHR because in order to do that they'll have to allow BA to do LHR-ZYL-LHR as well. Whether BA would still want to do that or not is another question altogether.

Now that BA shall cease service to DAC, why would they still be interested in making sure that BA had such rights? If UK carriers do not operate to Bangladesh why would UK government stick to such rules/protocols?


From what I'm told, in the 123rd IATA Schedules Conference held in Athens a couple of weeks ago BG has been allowed 4x weekly frequencies into LHR in the coming summer season by the UK authorities. The flight timings might be readjusted though.

Why not daily? Congestion at LHR? If so, would they allow BG/other Bangladesh carriers to operate out of other LON/UK airports, seven days a week?

Now that BA shall cease service to DAC, why would they still be interested in making sure that BA had such rights? If UK carriers do not operate to Bangladesh why would UK government stick to such rules/protocols?

Any amendment in the ASA proposed by one nation would generally involve reciprocal adjustments as demanded by the other nation. Since for BG to do ZYL-LHR would require the current ASA to be amended to include ZYL as a point of origin from Bangladesh, UK would obviously have their demands to negotiate, which it did earlier, but went futile for BG's stupidity.

In my opinion, BG should've allowed BA to fly into ZYL in return for BG being able to do ZYL-LHR simply because, if only Biman could improve their schedule performance and their product, the majority of the traffic, essentially the Sylhetis in the UK, would've preferred BG over BA considering the general factor of 'loyalty for the native.'

Why not daily? Congestion at LHR? If so, would they allow BG/other Bangladesh carriers to operate out of other LON/UK airports, seven days a week?

Not daily because the UK authorities aren't convinced, judging by the track records and BG's current fleet composition, that the airline can stop abusing precious daily slots into LHR. The UK authorities, however, had been offering BG to use STN or LGW and get out of LHR completely, which BG hasn't been willing to accept.

BG will not be able to operate ZYL-LHR because in order to do that they'll have to allow BA to do LHR-ZYL-LHR as well. Whether BA would still want to do that or not is another question altogether. But, now that BAs pulled out, no harm in agreeing to that :lol:. It's unlikely BA will re-instate the route as the reasons for withdrawing are likely to remain the same even with the prospect of LHR-ZYL. And, as BG never does any long term planning - it doesn't need to consider the impact a year down the line!

In the past, Bangladesh proposed to UK that BG should be allowed to operate out of any point in Bangladesh into LHR in the UK in return for which BA would be allowed to operate out of any point in the UK into DAC in Bangladesh. Obviously, that was a smart proposal by Bangladesh which however didn't outsmart the Brits!It's unlike the UK authorities will fall for the above ruse either then :)

From what I'm told, in the 123rd IATA Schedules Conference held in Athens a couple of weeks ago BG has been allowed 4x weekly frequencies into LHR in the coming summer season by the UK authorities. The flight timings might be readjusted though.I guess with airlines going bust, no harm in letting BG have another attempt at the elusive 80% utilisation target :nuts:

But, now that BAs pulled out, no harm in agreeing to that :lol:. It's unlikely BA will re-instate the route as the reasons for withdrawing are likely to remain the same even with the prospect of LHR-ZYL. And, as BG never does any long term planning - it doesn't need to consider the impact a year down the line!

It's unlike the UK authorities will fall for the above ruse either then :)

I guess with airlines going bust, no harm in letting BG have another attempt at the elusive 80% utilisation target :nuts:

Why???? How many times do you want Biman to have a go? ITs been years that they run behind schedule, cancel flights etc!

Prothom-alo 29th nonember

http://www.eprothomalo.com/contents/2008/2008_11_29/content_zoom/2008_11_29_24_2_b.jpg
http://www.eprothomalo.com/contents/2008/2008_11_29/content_zoom/2008_11_29_18_2_b.jpg

Prothom-alo 29th nonember

http://www.eprothomalo.com/contents/2008/2008_11_29/content_zoom/2008_11_29_24_2_b.jpg
http://www.eprothomalo.com/contents/2008/2008_11_29/content_zoom/2008_11_29_18_2_b.jpg


English please?

English please?

Sure!

Ebar bharay ana Airbus niye bipakey Biman. Odokhkhotar karone gochcha jabe 30 koti taka...

:D

Sure!

Ebar bharay ana Airbus niye bipakey Biman. Odokhkhotar karone gochcha jabe 30 koti taka...

:D


Ohhhh I got Airbus & Biman!

English as spoken as an english language you numnut! :bash::bash:

Prothom-alo 29th nonember

The fact that not renewing the lease for this A310 was a mistake on Biman's part was discussed here months before (in April '08 if I'm not mistaken) the lease term expired in August.

The Director of Engineering and the Director of Planning are, in my humble opinion, walking disasters at Biman. They should've been binned a long time ago...but now I guess it's too late. The airline is fast running out of cash...and if the govt. doesn't pour in some soon, well actually a LOT of it, this airline may cease to operate by Q2 2009.

The fact that not renewing the lease for this A310 was a mistake on Biman's part was discussed here months before (in April '08 if I'm not mistaken) the lease term expired in August.

The Director of Engineering and the Director of Planning are, in my humble opinion, walking disasters at Biman. They should've been binned a long time ago...but now I guess it's too late. The airline is fast running out of cash...and if the govt. doesn't pour in some soon, well actually a LOT of it, this airline may cease to operate by Q2 2009.

So many people were put out to pasture at BG, what (who) saved their butts and why? Whatever became of the plan to hire a "professional" CEO?

So many people were put out to pasture at BG, what (who) saved their butts and why? Whatever became of the plan to hire a "professional" CEO?

The Dir. of Engg. is a deputed BAF man....and BG 'loooves' BAF folks!

The Dir. of Plng, despite being he 'most-despised' man at Biman (no pun intended), was a personal favourite of the ex-MD/CEO and also is a personal favourite of the current MD/CEO apparently for his proficiency in spoken English! Well, he joined Biman as an English instructor at the BATC, and now he's the Director of Planning...so I'd guess you can comprehend one of the many reasons behind the airline's current status and future prospects!

Professional CEO? You dare think the current one isn't professional enough, eh?? Ask this question any louder and the jail will be your house and the jailguards your bedfellows!!! How come no one ever told you NOT to question whatever the GoB does...hmmmppphhhh?!?

The Dir. of Engg. is a deputed BAF man....and BG 'loooves' BAF folks!

The Dir. of Plng, despite being he 'most-despised' man at Biman (no pun intended), was a personal favourite of the ex-MD/CEO and also is a personal favourite of the current MD/CEO apparently for his proficiency in spoken English! Well, he joined Biman as an English instructor at the BATC, and now he's the Director of Planning...so I'd guess you can comprehend one of the many reasons behind the airline's current status and future prospects!

Professional CEO? You dare think the current one isn't professional enough, eh?? Ask this question any louder and the jail will be your house and the jailguards your bedfellows!!! How come no one ever told you NOT to question whatever the GoB does...hmmmppphhhh?!?

Oh I can readily identify with, "it's not what you know, it's who you know". Our company hired an instructor to provide on-going "computer skills training" (how to use MACs, MS Office etc.) to its employees. Soon after the company decided to replace the ancient printing press (system) with state-of-the-art technology that became known as the one-plant project (we had several presses at several locations that were consolidated). This joe blow suddenly becomes a manager of something (among many) for that one-plant project. With completion of the project he gets elevated to a director of something! Unfortunately, the man couldn't save his sorry ass inspite of his "connections", once he became over confident and begun abusing company property and material for his personal use. The funny thing and rather an ironic one, is that he exposed himself, owing to his own arrogance, when he was talking to some folks and mentioned/showed them what he has been doing!

But of course, here, most usually pay for their incompetencies and follies when discovered/exposed, but in Bangladesh they get promoted/rewarded.

news report on biman's lease of 2 737s from pegasus:
http://www.ittefaq.com/content/2008/11/30/news0438.htm

It's common knowledge that 'Luggage related payoff' is the major source of income for Biman's station managers at all out-stations, primarily labor destinations like KL and Dubai. I've known about Station Managers who can't even speak proper English owning six or seven condo complexes all over town. How can they afford those?

Are they still doing spot audits for these people -- knowing that this has been a common issue for the last twenty some years?

I'd hold these people under a microscope and light a little fire under their b*tts as everybody in Biman up and down the chain of command (including the top man) gets payoffs from Luggage related improprieties. The management at the aviation ministry should be held responsible too. Where is the RAB and why aren't they looking at this?

I am sorry but this is exactly what happens when you populate an airline with semi-educated nincompoops and pay them a substandard salary to boot. Life should be made so difficult and scrutinized for these people that the corrupt should feel comfortable seeking alternate employment.

Can someone tell me why Biman are returning a A310 to the owner when its common knowledge that they are having aircraft shortage????

Am I missing something?

news report on biman's lease of 2 737s from pegasus:
http://www.ittefaq.com/content/2008/11/30/news0438.htm

Someone translate please?

Can someone tell me why Biman are returning a A310 to the owner when its common knowledge that they are having aircraft shortage????

That is the billion dollar question that we've been trying to find an answer of! :)

That is the billion dollar question that we've been trying to find an answer of! :)

Why though>?

Turkey plans to introduce direct air service between Dhaka and Istanbul from 2009 for further strengthening the existing ties between the two countries, particularly through enhancing economic cooperation.

New Turkish Ambassador in Dhaka Sakir Ozkan Toruntar apprised Chief Adviser Dr Fakhruddin Ahmed of the plan when the envoy paid a courtesy call on him at the CA's office yesterday.

He also informed that the next joint economic council meeting would be held in Turkey in the upcoming year 2009.

Sakir noted that Bangladesh is one of the four Asian countries where Turkey has development cooperation and investment.

He also mentioned that trade volume between Dhaka and Ankara rose to 500 million US dollars last month from about 300 million dollars.

He said the number of scholarships of Turkish government for students of Bangladesh would be increased.

The Chief Adviser said Turkey's investors could make further investment in Bangladesh availing of the attractive investment incentive packages offered by the government for foreign investors.

He said the investors could invest particularly in infrastructure development, which has high demand both in public and private sectors.

And the demand would increase in next few years.

Fakhruddin observed trade relations between the two countries are expanding and hoped for further expansion.

“There are opportunities to expand relations in different areas,” the head of the caretaker government told the envoy.

The Turkish ambassador thanked for Bangladesh's support to Turkey in becoming UN Security Council member.


http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=65662

Turkey plans to introduce direct air service between Dhaka and Istanbul from 2009...

http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=65662

Almost every time a new envoy meets the Bangladeshi PM (CA is this case), something is said (seldom meant) about starting up air services between the 2 countries!

In my opinion, TK is quite unlikely to consider serving DAC just yet, though their inclusion in Star Alliance does provide more reason than ever before.

By the way, is it only me or does the trade figures of US$ 500 million (up from US$ 300 million in a matter of a month's time!) surprise others as well? Possibly a typo?? Anyone got the numbers here???

Almost every time a new envoy meets the Bangladeshi PM (CA is this case), something is said (seldom meant) about starting up air services between the 2 countries!


You stole my thoughts! Everytime I read such news item, I chuckle to myself. By now, all countries that have embassies in Dhaka, should have direct air link with Dhaka!

Someone translate please?

The highlights ...

1. A lack of planning on Biman's part is causing difficulty to Biman's flights to S'pore and Malaysia using Boeing 737-800 aircraft. These aircraft have much smaller capacity to carry luggage and cargo compared to DC-10s.

2. These aircraft leased from Pegasus Airlines in Turkey were supposed to fly 500 hours per month between both aircraft. So far in these three weeks past they have only flown 226 hours -- thereby Biman suffering losses due to unused hours. They are also flying with load penalty with 39 seats empty due to luggage overweight situation on these routes (because laborers commonly exceed their luggage quotas).

3. Biman is losing valuable cargo revenue because the 737-800's do not have excess cargo capacity like the DC-10's. Even last week Biman carried 305 pax with their luggage plus add'l cargo to these same routes using DC-10s. Operating smaller craft like the Boeing 737-800 means cargo losses and under-utilization of existing staff which shows a lack of foresight and planning.

4. Aviation specialist Mr. Imran Asif opined to Ittefaq that giving luggage 'facility' (foregoing overweight penalty) to laborers was a prime factor for their choosing Biman ridership. If luggage facility is absent then laborers will fly other airlines.

5. Biman spokesperson Nafees Ahmed Imtiazuddin however denied this -- saying that the choice of leased smaller Boeing 737 aircraft is not causing any difficulty. He said that the true situation would be understood in a couple of months and the 'luggage issue' would be sorted out 'soon'.

The highlights ...

1. A lack of planning on Biman's part is causing difficulty to Biman's flights to S'pore and Malaysia using Boeing 737-800 aircraft. These aircraft have much smaller capacity to carry luggage and cargo compared to DC-10s.

2. These aircraft leased from Pegasus Airlines in Turkey were supposed to fly 500 hours per month between both aircraft. So far in these three weeks past they have only flown 226 hours -- thereby Biman suffering losses due to unused hours. They are also flying with load penalty with 39 seats empty due to luggage overweight situation on these routes (because laborers commonly exceed their luggage quotas).

3. Biman is losing valuable cargo revenue because the 737-800's do not have excess cargo capacity like the DC-10's. Even last week Biman carried 305 pax with their luggage plus add'l cargo to these same routes using DC-10s. Operating smaller craft like the Boeing 737-800 means cargo losses and under-utilization of existing staff which shows a lack of foresight and planning.

4. Aviation specialist Mr. Imran Asif opined to Ittefaq that giving luggage 'facility' (foregoing overweight penalty) to laborers was a prime factor for their choosing Biman ridership. If luggage facility is absent then laborers will fly other airlines.

5. Biman spokesperson Nafees Ahmed Imtiazuddin however denied this -- saying that the choice of leased smaller Boeing 737 aircraft is not causing any difficulty. He said that the true situation would be understood in a couple of months and the 'luggage issue' would be sorted out 'soon'.


Thank you..... The :cheers: is on me

P.S Does Iasif a big name over there in Aviation? Just seems he is always mentioned or is writing stories!

Thank you..... The :cheers: is on me

P.S Does Iasif a big name over there in Aviation? Just seems he is always mentioned or is writing stories!

Yes Imran Bhai by now 'should be' a much needed alternate pundit/resource/think-tank in Bangladesh regarding aviation issues. There are few people (at least I know of) who know as much regarding local Bangladesh aviation yet have demonstrated depth of knowledge regarding airline leasing issues. He is regularly hounded by the media to verify opinions on local aviation policy-related issues.

[BTW -- ahem :naughty::naughty::naughty: -- Imran Bhai please send over the cheque over to my mother-in-law in Road 16 Banani -- like we talked about ;) ]

see i'd rather be in the dark and let airlines come to me, i usually have no comment for journalists, as they always manage to twist the words

see i'd rather be in the dark and let airlines come to me, i usually have no comment for journalists, as they always manage to twist the words

I don't think you have to worry about that in Bangladesh. The journalists in Bangladesh are unfortunately not knowledgable enough to twist anything. But 'facetime' or rather 'column-space' in a daily is important -- especially if you're knowledgable on a subject and what you say makes sense.

Hiding you head in the sand doesn't get you anywhere.

Anyway -- back to our regular programming :)

Hiding you head in the sand doesn't get you anywhere.

I agree, but I'd rather level my understand consulting roles with the Airlines, and no offence to the journalists, they dont do anything!

What ever an airline does, someone is going to be upset!

P.S Does Iasif a big name over there in Aviation? Just seems he is always mentioned or is writing stories!

No. I have a short first name and a shorter surname! :D

Yes Imran Bhai by now 'should be' a much needed alternate pundit/resource/think-tank in Bangladesh regarding aviation issues. There are few people (at least I know of) who know as much regarding local Bangladesh aviation yet have demonstrated depth of knowledge regarding airline leasing issues. He is regularly hounded by the media to verify opinions on local aviation policy-related issues.

[BTW -- ahem :naughty::naughty::naughty: -- Imran Bhai please send over the cheque over to my mother-in-law in Road 16 Banani -- like we talked about ;) ]

Fact # 1: I don't know, yet, a lot about aviation. However, I'd like to believe that I know, like almost everyone else on this very forum, more than what Biman's avg knowledge level is! :)

Fact # 2: The fact that I entertain some reporters' queries is because if I don't speak out, some people will never face questions for their misdeeds.

MANBIL777: I took the cheque and searched for your mom-in-law. You only provided the road number and no house number so my search efforts went futile which by itself cost me more than the amount in the cheque (as agreed earlier), and hence I think you owe me the balance now (which is a petty 5-figure number on the higher side)! :D

Knowing more than the Bangladesh Aviation sector, really ins't that hard of achievment!

Knowing more than the Bangladesh Aviation sector, really ins't that hard of achievment!

Knowing more than the BD aviation sector really isn't hard. What is hard is to try and make an effort to improve on how things are done here...something I can't do all by myself...something that needs more shoulders and voices...something for which people needs to be more 'informed' and 'aware'...and bring about the change for good! :)

The pilots and the flight engineers have locked horns over the package salary issue, which if not resolved soon may lead to a serious disruption of flights operated with the DC-10s. The Bangladesh Airline Pilot's Association (BAPA) had been pursuing for the package salary since May 2008 and finally managed to get the management to sign an MoU on the 30th August, following which the Flight Engineers & Navigators Association (FENA) had lodged their demands for their package salary according to the same methodology used for the pilot's salaries.

The dispute has risen over the fact that the pilots are demanding that the FE's should be paid less than the FO's of the DC-10s, irrespective of their years of service with Biman, and only considering the command protocol of the cockpit. This proposition is absurd now, as the avg years of service of the DC-10 FO's are about 12 years, whereas that of the FE's are 25 years, and therefore despite their salary scale being lower than the DC-10 FO's, the FE's are obviously drawing a higher salary, and will continue to do so under the package proposal.

On 26th Nov, the day on which the Board was supposed to approve the package salary for FENA, a letter was given to the management by BAPA saying that the FE's salaries should be lower than the DC-10's FO's and to justify that BAPA had referred to clauses of Biman's Flight Operations Manual (approved by CAAB) which are completely irrelevant for determination of salaries of the cockpit crew. Moreover, they've also deliberately provided misleading information regarding license categories and medical fitness requirements to intimidate the management and its decisions. On 27th Nov, FENA gave a letter to the management saying that the FE's will not follow the extended duty time requirements (as proposed in the pilots package in line with UK CAA's CAP371) which would inevitably lead to disruption on DC-10 flight ops. Today (1st Dec) the MD & CEO managed to pacify FENA committing that the matter will be resolved in favour of FENA on the Board Meeting to be held on 15th Dec, which if goes wrong, would lead to a really, really nasty situation.

In my opinion, the core problem of this mudslinging situation is Biman's acute, historical problem of renewing its fleet, which should've got rid of the DC-10s by mid-90's.

I am curious - what do pilots get paid in Bangladesh.... I know money... but how much $$$$$ I'm curious, not that I want to become a pilot

The pilots and the flight engineers have locked horns over the package salary issue, which if not resolved soon may lead to a serious disruption of flights operated with the DC-10s. ....

Do they still have NOs (navigators)?

Yes, it is ridiculous to suggest that type of salary structure and ceiling. In the US, it would be discriminatory, and an invitation to lawsuits.

But I wonder what would happen if BG were to suddenly retire all their diesels?

I was interested to know (can anyone help me?)

Q: Which airline has the highest market share in the Bangladeshi domestic sector? I know there are four of them at the moment, but who will the considered to have the highest proposition in the domestic market? iasif, can ya shad some light on this?

I was interested to know (can anyone help me?)

Q: Which airline has the highest market share in the Bangladeshi domestic sector? I know there are four of them at the moment, but who will the considered to have the highest proposition in the domestic market? iasif, can ya shad some light on this?

I would have though Biman & GMG

Aviana hardly cant grab an excessive % of the market thanks to a single airframe, United has two so I would presume its more than aviana but less than Biman / GMG

hi everyone.
Im going to birmingham tonight to spend some time and of course Eid with my family. Im flying with emirates, but this time im flying to Heathrow instead of Birmingam Intl. And the reason is very obvious......Will be boarding the Airbus A380 from DXB-LHR!!!!!!!:banana::banana::banana: anf of course again on the return trip.
Im jus a lil over excited...!! Hope economy class treats me well :nuts:
Bye ppl, will resume with reading all your posts once im here, and of course will post the pictures...cameras all ready!!

Cheers

hi everyone.
Im going to birmingham tonight to spend some time and of course Eid with my family. Im flying with emirates, but this time im flying to Heathrow instead of Birmingam Intl. And the reason is very obvious......Will be boarding the Airbus A380 from DXB-LHR!!!!!!!:banana::banana::banana: anf of course again on the return trip.
Im jus a lil over excited...!! Hope economy class treats me well :nuts:
Bye ppl, will resume with reading all your posts once im here, and of course will post the pictures...cameras all ready!!

Cheers


Eh, enjoy. The A380 is over rated......

I am curious - what do pilots get paid in Bangladesh.... I know money... but how much $$$$$ I'm curious, not that I want to become a pilot

The proposed package salary will have the avg of US$ 5,600/month spread from F-28 FO's up to DC-10 Captains (total of 120-odd pilots) and the range is from just above US$ 2,000 to just above US$ 9,000. Using the same formula, the avg monthly salary of the FE's will be about US$ 7,700 for the 20-odd FE's most of whom have exceeded 20 years of service with Biman.

I was interested to know (can anyone help me?)

Q: Which airline has the highest market share in the Bangladeshi domestic sector? I know there are four of them at the moment, but who will the considered to have the highest proposition in the domestic market? iasif, can ya shad some light on this?

Depends on the period to be considered. In the recent past, GMG had just one aircraft serviceable, a Dash-8-300, and they were really not being able to carry too many people and was definitely even less than United. Now that they have probably 2x Dash-8s and and MD-80 back on the active fleet, the scenario may have changed in GMG's favour.

I'd say the majority of the domestic market is now split between GMG and United, and United has certainly done well, but I'll quote here an extract from a column I recently wrote and is pending publication, and it is very, very important that you understand what I mean here:

Too often, airline managements place too much emphasis on improving market share as an end in itself. They tend to add frequencies and reduce fares to fill the additional seats in the pursuit of higher market shares. This phenomenon has also been witnessed in the airline industry of Bangladesh, where Biman and the local private airlines adopted this strategy which seemingly looks attractive. More passengers can support even higher frequencies, which in turn provide a competitive advantage and attract yet more passengers. Higher frequencies and more passengers mean lower cost per passenger. But if one is capturing higher market share primarily through more aggressive and lower tariffs, there is a real risk that average yields fall more rapidly than costs. Or that passenger load factors do not rise sufficiently to compensate for and offset the fall in yields.

Eh, enjoy. The A380 is over rated......

I'd beg to differ. The first time I saw one take off from LAX -- kind of bowled me over.

The thing is first of all hushed quiet when taking off and then you see the massive jet efflux coming out of the engines and realize why the towers call it 'Super Heavy' when a B747 is just called 'Heavy'.

BTW Emirates now has direct flights to Dubai from both SFO and LAX. I'm taking that flt. next time I go.

found this add on Prothom-alo

http://www.eprothomalo.com/contents/2008/2008_12_03/content_zoom/2008_12_03_1_19_b.jpg

private jet with live.com email add? sounds very fishy!

I'd beg to differ. The first time I saw one take off from LAX -- kind of bowled me over.

The thing is first of all hushed quiet when taking off and then you see the massive jet efflux coming out of the engines and realize why the towers call it 'Super Heavy' when a B747 is just called 'Heavy'.

BTW Emirates now has direct flights to Dubai from both SFO and LAX. I'm taking that flt. next time I go.

do you know the airfare from LAX to DAC round trip?

www.bestflights.com.au

private jet with live.com email add? sounds very fishy!

A broker perhaps?

By the way, is it only me or does the trade figures of US$ 500 million (up from US$ 300 million in a matter of a month's time!) surprise others as well? Possibly a typo?? Anyone got the numbers here???

Wow! The financial crisis is over! Or is it only Bangladesh & Turkey that have made the remarkable recovery?:nuts:

I'd beg to differ. The first time I saw one take off from LAX -- kind of bowled me over.

The thing is first of all hushed quiet when taking off and then you see the massive jet efflux coming out of the engines and realize why the towers call it 'Super Heavy' when a B747 is just called 'Heavy'.

BTW Emirates now has direct flights to Dubai from both SFO and LAX. I'm taking that flt. next time I go.

I saw the beast back in February 2006, at the Asian Aerospace 2006 in Singapore...and she was wearing the SQ livery at the show. The flypasts were amazing...especially the slow one....it looked like it'll just fall flat on its belly like a stone! The aircraft may not be a huge commercial success, but it truly is a technological marvel...and goes to show how far we've come in the relatively short history of flight!

Depends on the period to be considered. In the recent past, GMG had just one aircraft serviceable, a Dash-8-300, and they were really not being able to carry too many people and was definitely even less than United. Now that they have probably 2x Dash-8s and and MD-80 back on the active fleet, the scenario may have changed in GMG's favour.

I'd say the majority of the domestic market is now split between GMG and United, and United has certainly done well, but I'll quote here an extract from a column I recently wrote and is pending publication, and it is very, very important that you understand what I mean here:

Too often, airline managements place too much emphasis on improving market share as an end in itself. They tend to add frequencies and reduce fares to fill the additional seats in the pursuit of higher market shares. This phenomenon has also been witnessed in the airline industry of Bangladesh, where Biman and the local private airlines adopted this strategy which seemingly looks attractive. More passengers can support even higher frequencies, which in turn provide a competitive advantage and attract yet more passengers. Higher frequencies and more passengers mean lower cost per passenger. But if one is capturing higher market share primarily through more aggressive and lower tariffs, there is a real risk that average yields fall more rapidly than costs. Or that passenger load factors do not rise sufficiently to compensate for and offset the fall in yields.

Point noted iasif, but I must say, UNITED has done very well in a short space of time if they are now locking horn with GMG who has been in the market over a decade now. Good to see this.

I know just by cuting fare price is not good enough, providing quality customer servive is vital for any business for long term sustainabality.

So, do we know the background about these private airlines of Bangladesh in terms of their staff trainning? Is any one them doing anything extra to train their staff in order to go that extra mile for customers. I mean, this is a very the most important factor for Biman's downfall. So has the private airlines learned anything from this yet?

Point noted iasif, but I must say, UNITED has done very well in a short space of time if they are now locking horn with GMG who has been in the market over a decade now. Good to see this.

I know just by cuting fare price is not good enough, providing quality customer servive is vital for any business for long term sustainabality.

So, do we know the background about these private airlines of Bangladesh in terms of their staff trainning? Is any one them doing anything extra to train their staff in order to go that extra mile for customers. I mean, this is a very the most important factor for Biman's downfall. So has the private airlines learned anything from this yet?

1. As critical as I've been of GMG's actions since the very beginning, and for which they've and are paying the prices, one must give them the credit for creating an alternate for people to choose. Until they screwed up with their intl acts (especially with the 747), they had shown admirable determination to have continued to operate for about 10 years in a very inconsistent market.

2. United is surely carrying a significant number of the domestic travellers but essentially by offering very competitive fares. But the question is how their yields are turning out to be while carrying more passengers. There's always an optimal point where the balance between market share and yields generated is just perfect...beyond that point, additional market share may not essentially generate enough yield to offset the additional costs! Am I being comprehensive here?

3. As for staff training and 'going that extra-mile' for the customers, what most of our airlines are doing is offering better food onboard and other stuff, and glam outfits on the cabin crews to impress the customers...which really aren't the key factors considering that domestically the flight time from DAC to anywhere is always under 1 hour. The passengers actually spend more time before and after these flights (starting from fare inquiries to baggage collection at destination) and it is on those areas that they should focus to improve. When I wanted to fly United earlier this year, no one picked my call at 2000 hrs local time, and their online schedules were totally different than the schedule they were actually operating. I chose to fly RBA and we had to wait for 10 mins at the ramp area (after final check from the domestic departure terminal) waiting for the bus to arrive to take us to the aircraft. The samosa on-board wasn't absolutely necessary, and the experience afterward when they cancelled their return flight the next day completely spoiled whatever praise I might otherwise had for them!

Following these 2 rules are important: (i) consider your availability and offering to your passengers as a promise, a commitment, that you ought to keep at any cost, and (ii) calculate the total time burden for a pax on the avg flight and give priority to improve on the part which involves more time (i.e. 'on ground' or 'in the air'). The results will surprise you! :)

PS: Where is my cheque now?

Hajj flights of Biman going on smoothly (http://www.bangladeshmonitor.net/aviation_story.php?recordID=1770)

Dhaka : The flights of Biman Bangladesh Air-lines Ltd. have gone on smoothly so far this Hajj season with the airline carrying 27,936 pilgrims, both ballottees and non-ballottees, to Makkah to perform Hajj, till November 29.

Five more flights will be operated till December 2 enabling the airline to carry 1,800 more pilgrims, taking the number to over 29,000.

The pilgrims were and will be taken on a total of 34 flights, including one each from Chittagong and Sylhet. One DC-10 flight from Chittagong and Sylhet have already been operated.

The flights were carried out by B747s and DC-10s. Along with Biman’s own aircraft, the flights were started by Orient Thai's B747s while Nigeria's Kabo Airlines started operating flights from November 14.

Syed Ahasan Hossain Kazi, General Manager (Acting), District Sales Office said, "Though there was pressure at first, the airline managed to carry a substantial number of pilgrims on scheduled flights, thus saving a lot of foreign exchange of Biman."

"All the flights were on time," he added.

Saudi Arabian Airlines carried 15,949 pilgrims till November 29 and this number is expected to rise to over 19,000 with the airline operating nine more flights till December 4.

The return flights will begin from December 11 and end on January 11, 2009. Most will be by B747s while two by DC-10s.

Sources said, initially 48,727 pilgrims, 7,477 ballottees and 41,253 non-ballottees were to have gone on 42 flights-39 Boeing B747 flights and three DC-10 flights - for performing Hajj.

Requests for direct flights to be conveyed to Virgin Atlantic (http://www.bangladeshmonitor.net/aviation_story.php?recordID=1747)

Dhaka : Requests for Virgin Atlantic Airways' flights to Bangladesh will be conveyed to the airline management, Michael Burke, General Manager, Virgin Atlantic Airways_ India assured trade partners at a get-together organised by Airline Services Ltd., GSA of the airline in Bangladesh at Gulshan Club on November 18.

Thanking them for their support in the last two years, Burke hoped the same would be forthcoming in the days ahead.

Sanjay Kapoor, Head of Commercial, India, Sudhir Sekhri, Sales Support Manager, India, Virgin Atlantic Airways, Mahbubul Anam, Managing Director, and Aftab Siddiqi, Manager Sales and Marketing, Airline Services Ltd. spoke on the occasion.

Michael Burke later gave away the awards to top ten agents.

The recipients of the award are: Air Trip International Ltd., Inter-national Travel Corporation Ltd., JF (Bangladesh) Ltd., Oa-sis Tours and Travels, Regen-cy Travels Ltd., Saimon Over-seas Ltd., The Travel Channel, Travel Ways Ltd., Travelwise Ltd. and Victory Travels Ltd.

Anyone know if BA's online check-in (or the newly launched mobile check-in) can be used at DAC?

Hajj flights of Biman going on smoothly (http://www.bangladeshmonitor.net/aviation_story.php?recordID=1770)

Deliberate distortion of facts.

1. Kabo positioned the plane back to Dhaka on 15th Nov and operated its first hajj flight on the 16th, by which time the first 16 day's of Hajj ops were operated with Orient Thai's B747 and Biman's own DC-10s cancelling dozens of scheduled flights which resulted in a backlog of nearly 1,000 pilgrims as of 14th Nov. many pilgrims who reached KSA later than originally planned faced accommodation and other problems related to the Muallems.

2. The very first flight departed DAC at 4.15pm (an hour behind schedule) and came back to DAC after reporting an engine problem at 5.15pm local time. The aircraft departed again at about 7.30pm local time as a result of which 3 subsequent 3 day's flights were also delayed. There was another instance when an Orient Thai Captain fell sick at around 8pm in the evening making himself unavailable for the night's flight scheduled to depart at 11.30pm, and all the other OT crews were found to be drunk at the bar of the hotel they're staying at, as a result of which 512 pilgrims were stranded at ZIA and were brought back to the Hajj camp at about 1.30am. The flight eventually departed at 7am next morning.

3. Towards the end of the pre-Hajj period, at least 5 Hajj flights had to be cancelled due to fewer number of pilgrims than planned, and the Kabo Air 747 has been largely unutilized over the past 10 days (including a technical grounding at JED 2 days back).

Deliberate distortion of facts.Yeah - it did seem like the report was submitted by Biman!

Anyone know if BA's online check-in (or the newly launched mobile check-in) can be used at DAC?

Online Check-in for BA flights are available at DAC (from 24 hrs prior to the scheduled time of flight). Not sure about Mobile Check-in though.

Just as we were talking about the A380...here's what the biggest problem is with the WhaleJet:
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/12/03/319698/airbus-to-help-emirates-pilots-sleep-after-crews-find-a380-too-quiet.html

Back in August 2007, Boeing's VP of Marketing Mr. Randy Tinseth said this in his blog:
http://boeingblogs.com/randy/archives/2007/08/sound_of_silence.html

And on that, Airbus' chief salesman, the ever-amazing (!) Mr. John Leahy had said in Sep 2007:
"Boeing is clutching at straws. There is no such thing as an aircraft that is too quiet. If Boeing says that, because they don't have an aircraft that competes, then I think it is frankly embarrassing that they even said that."

So the A380 is indeed 'too quiet' now that the EK pilots have complained about it...and I'd say Airbus should bundle in a JT8D sound-sample on the plane...that would activate and play through the cabin as soon as the planes' engines are ignited! :D

1. As critical as I've been of GMG's actions since the very beginning, and for which they've and are paying the prices, one must give them the credit for creating an alternate for people to choose. Until they screwed up with their intl acts (especially with the 747), they had shown admirable determination to have continued to operate for about 10 years in a very inconsistent market.

2. United is surely carrying a significant number of the domestic travellers but essentially by offering very competitive fares. But the question is how their yields are turning out to be while carrying more passengers. There's always an optimal point where the balance between market share and yields generated is just perfect...beyond that point, additional market share may not essentially generate enough yield to offset the additional costs! Am I being comprehensive here?

3. As for staff training and 'going that extra-mile' for the customers, what most of our airlines are doing is offering better food onboard and other stuff, and glam outfits on the cabin crews to impress the customers...which really aren't the key factors considering that domestically the flight time from DAC to anywhere is always under 1 hour. The passengers actually spend more time before and after these flights (starting from fare inquiries to baggage collection at destination) and it is on those areas that they should focus to improve. When I wanted to fly United earlier this year, no one picked my call at 2000 hrs local time, and their online schedules were totally different than the schedule they were actually operating. I chose to fly RBA and we had to wait for 10 mins at the ramp area (after final check from the domestic departure terminal) waiting for the bus to arrive to take us to the aircraft. The samosa on-board wasn't absolutely necessary, and the experience afterward when they cancelled their return flight the next day completely spoiled whatever praise I might otherwise had for them!

Following these 2 rules are important: (i) consider your availability and offering to your passengers as a promise, a commitment, that you ought to keep at any cost, and (ii) calculate the total time burden for a pax on the avg flight and give priority to improve on the part which involves more time (i.e. 'on ground' or 'in the air'). The results will surprise you! :)

PS: Where is my cheque now?

iasif, I am still curious to why an airline hasnt snapped you up?

Anyway let me expand on your point please

2

We can view United as a 'fresh' new carrier without any incumbant costs like what GMG & Biman have.
From what I can see United work their aircraft and crew very hard as most private airlines do. With working their aircraft more, ultimately the DOC per hour on the Dash 8-100 will be lower, thus them having the ability to decrease fare yields and attract more customers due to the attractive fares.
Based on my own performance on the Dash 8-100 you would be looking at approx US$1,500 per hour on the Dash 8 if you working the aircraft for around 200hours [this may be a little more due to fuel prices, but these can be offset thanks to the lower cost of personal]

Thus what I am trying to say is that by increasing the utlisation of the aircraft & crew your reducing the DOC of the aircraft per hour, thus in hindsight being able to lower the yields per passenger thus decreasing the ticket price thus in hindsight creating additional demand!

[sorry If I have lost anyone]

So the A380 is indeed 'too quiet' now that the EK pilots have complained about it...and I'd say Airbus should bundle in a JT8D sound-sample on the plane...that would activate and play through the cabin as soon as the planes' engines are ignited! :D

Funny Imran Bhai -- kind of like the hybrid electric cars that sneak up on people. They suggested sound clips for hybrids as well....:)

Funny Imran Bhai -- kind of like the hybrid electric cars that sneak up on people. They suggested sound clips for hybrids as well....:)

They should install JT9D's on the A380 :nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts:

Thus what I am trying to say is that by increasing the utlisation of the aircraft & crew your reducing the DOC of the aircraft per hour, thus in hindsight being able to lower the yields per passenger thus decreasing the ticket price thus in hindsight creating additional demand!

You're right, but there's only so much hours that you can push your airplanes to fly every day, and you can keep the fares as low as it can be, but then the question is if there is enough market to respond to that available capacity even at those rock-bottom prices to still justify the revenue maximization efforts.

From a broader perspective, this is one of the reasons why LCC ops in Australia isn't nearly as ridiculous as those in Europe or the US...there aren't as many crazy people down under with reasons to fly...you already know what I'm saying! :)

They should install JT9D's on the A380 :nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts:

Yeah, 4 on each wing and then convert the main deck into the largest fuel tank ever...that should certainly suffice! :)

Online Check-in for BA flights are available at DAC (from 24 hrs prior to the scheduled time of flight). Not sure about Mobile Check-in though.Many thanks for the info, Imran bhai. I guess as the mobile check-in works off the online check-in (but optimised for viewing on phones), it should work the same too.

Whatever hushkitted this forum???

Whatever hushkitted this forum???

Folks preoccupied with buying cows (for Eid), Hanukkah, Xmas, recession, deflation, ..... you name it. :)

http://www.ittefaq.com/content/2008/12/06/news0916.htm

Whatever hushkitted this forum???

Work related. This month will be like this. More time in January.

http://www.ittefaq.com/content/2008/12/06/news0916.htm

Was talking about this here the other day (post # 80). The pilots are acting like petulant little children here. Chain of command at the cockpit doesn't singularly rule the pay scale at Biman. A DC-10 FO with the same years of service as that of an FE would earn more, but the fact is the youngest FE at Biman is on his 19th year with the airline, while the avg years of service of the DC-10 FO's is under 14 years, and hence the FE's are making more money.

Moreover, BAPA is split in at least two and possibly in three parts and the current leadership is under tremendous pressure from within as many of its members have strong grievances over how this package salary issue has been handled by the association.

In my opinion, Biman should back out from talking about package salary with both the pilots and then flt engineers because going ahead with their package salary proposals would entail additional expenses for the airline that doesn't seem to get compensated for by a well-planned interim lease. Bangladesh is yet to face the full blow of the global financial crunch, which is invariably going to lead to reduced travelling through at least 2009-2010, and Biman should avoid taking any decision that would mean having to spend more in the difficult times ahead.

.... Bangladesh is yet to face the full blow of the global financial crunch, which is invariably going to lead to reduced travelling through at least 2009-2010, and Biman should avoid taking any decision that would mean having to spend more in the difficult times ahead.

A bit more elaboration please... for a change, someone sounds too certain in an uncertain time.... the Global Financial crunch, if intensify in Middle East, will definitely have an impact on the labor export, though it may create some different avenue as well. But leaving that aside, this may well be the right time BG should invest, only if they can take the right decision at the right time (which... obviously they won't...).

But I fully agree with your opinion... this whole fuss with the pilots is really ridicules and should be scrapped immediately.

A bit more elaboration please... for a change, someone sounds too certain in an uncertain time.... the Global Financial crunch, if intensify in Middle East, will definitely have an impact on the labor export, though it may create some different avenue as well. But leaving that aside, this may well be the right time BG should invest, only if they can take the right decision at the right time (which... obviously they won't...).

But I fully agree with your opinion... this whole fuss with the pilots is really ridicules and should be scrapped immediately.

Firstly, Biman basically earns its bread out of transporting the labour traffic to/from the ME and Southeast Asia, which could be facing an impending slump with the prolonged financial turmoil. Secondly, another major source of Biman's revenues is what it makes out of providing ground services to the airlines operating into and out of Bangladesh, which might also face a cyclical downturn, again stemming from the global financial crisis. Thirdly, if the overall trade between Bangladesh and other countries get squeezed in, Biman will have lesser money to make out of their cargo transportation as well as from cargo handling at the import/export cargo village at ZIA.

In times as uncertain as these days, it is safer to prepare for the worst, because otherwise the situation might be too tight for comfort. As it is, many of my friends scattered all over the place are saying that this year's holidays may just be the one for them to cherish for quite a few years to come! :)

.....
In times as uncertain as these days, it is safer to prepare for the worst, because otherwise the situation might be too tight for comfort.

Has Biman ever done anything based on logic, or prudence? I thought so.

As it is, many of my friends scattered all over the place are saying that this year's holidays may just be the one for them to cherish for quite a few years to come! :)

I take it you're being facetious?

I take it you're being facetious?

I wish I was! But with over half a million job losses in November alone in the US, many you know will have long holidays of despair, while the ones at job will find it hard to have the time to even look out the window.

I have a friend in Denmark whom I've known for about 5 years, and his definition of 'working hard' thus far has been like many Danes - 7 months of work, and 5 months of vacations. This guy has already begun cutting his holiday plans for 2009 and even 2010, and said he's postponing his planning efforts for 2011 (seems like when you can afford 5 months of vacations in a year, plans for at least next 5 years are typical!). Now, I'm not saying that this friend of mine is my yardstick to measure the general impact worldwide, but it could really turn out to be pretty bad indeed!

Due to revenue losses owing to the worsening political situation in Thailand, TG has decided to cut services to many destinations worldwide among which are DAC and CGP.

Effective immediately and valid until March 2009:
- DAC will be served with 5x weekly flights (down from daily) with A330-300s
- Flights to CGP are suspended until February

You're right, but there's only so much hours that you can push your airplanes to fly every day, and you can keep the fares as low as it can be, but then the question is if there is enough market to respond to that available capacity even at those rock-bottom prices to still justify the revenue maximization efforts.

From a broader perspective, this is one of the reasons why LCC ops in Australia isn't nearly as ridiculous as those in Europe or the US...there aren't as many crazy people down under with reasons to fly...you already know what I'm saying! :)

Sure... in this case = plenty!

Sure... in this case = plenty!

Ummm...yea...but paying or non-paying pax? :)

We were talking about people willing to pay the minimum airfare that can be put forth to them!

I wish I was! But with over half a million job losses in November alone in the US, many you know will have long holidays of despair, while the ones at job will find it hard to have the time to even look out the window.

I have a friend in Denmark whom I've known for about 5 years, and his definition of 'working hard' thus far has been like many Danes - 7 months of work, and 5 months of vacations. This guy has already begun cutting his holiday plans for 2009 and even 2010, and said he's postponing his planning efforts for 2011 (seems like when you can afford 5 months of vacations in a year, plans for at least next 5 years are typical!). Now, I'm not saying that this friend of mine is my yardstick to measure the general impact worldwide, but it could really turn out to be pretty bad indeed!

With the combined population of the Scandinavian countries of about 10 million, about the same that of greater Dhaka city, yes, I suppose they have (had) the luxury of 5 months vacation (why even bother working?). Even an average Saudi/UAE citizen don't have it that good!

Yes, I certainly hope that isn't the yardstick of measure for bad economic times ... try people who just lost their jobs and having to explain why their won't be any Christmas presents this year, to their young children!

This world is a real crazy place isn't it? While a Dane's sense of economic downturn is having to curtail his vacation, in many states of the US (including mine), most of us own homes where the mortgage owed, is more than street price (of the house)! Go figure.

Due to revenue losses owing to the worsening political situation in Thailand, TG has decided to cut services to many destinations worldwide among which are DAC and CGP.


Now, isn't this a very good example of how politics can screw up a country? I say bring on democracy Singapore style!

BNP's draft election manifesto

In the manifesto, BNP pledges to take many steps for eliminating traffic congestions in the capital including shifting Zia International Airport from the city to a place near Jamuna Bridge.

http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=66448

-Is this even a feasible option? In addition would this actually improve traffic situation?

BNP's draft election manifesto

http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=66448

-Is this even a feasible option? In addition would this actually improve traffic situation?

The bigger question is, are we still to believe anything any of our politicians say on these leaflets? Your question, I believe, has been answered!

ZIA isn't going anywhere. It'll become Kai Tak # 2 in about 20 years, and that will be fun! :)

Branding of Bangladesh Unveiled.

http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=66444

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd236/TheCoolOnes/beautiful_bangladesh.jpg

Fantastic words.
Terrible rendition.
:2cents:

Branding of Bangladesh Unveiled.

http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=66444

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd236/TheCoolOnes/beautiful_bangladesh.jpg

Fantastic words.
Terrible rendition.
:2cents:

Well yeah obviously, if the 60+ years old senior citizens (politicians/Bureaucrats) try to run the campaign then it will move no where. They better hand it over to a International brand promotion agency.

BNP's draft election manifesto

http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=66448

-Is this even a feasible option? In addition would this actually improve traffic situation?

You know the saying, "pagoley keyna boley chhagoley keyna khai"?

Well yeah obviously, if the 60+ years old senior citizens (politicians/Bureaucrats) try to run the campaign then it will move no where. They better hand it over to a International brand promotion agency.

Well, it's a start. Hopefully it will evolve and be finessed.

Well, it's a start. Hopefully it will evolve and be finessed.

Finessed as in Biman's livery...which has gone from fair (original blue-grey scheme) to worse (nationalistic cheatline and the redone Balaka) through 37 years?

Finessed as in Biman's livery...which has gone from fair (original blue-grey scheme) to worse (nationalistic cheatline and the redone Balaka) through 37 years?

I hope not. Problem with Biman is that it has too many cook's helpers but not a single chef. I can only hope that BPC or whatever it has morphed into, shall see the light and come up with a better product. They could either hire some creative professionals or hold a contest and contract out the selection to a reputable ad agency, for promotion campaigns. Like I said, it is at least a beginning.

imran bhai, i was following ur opinion that replacing the dc-10s with md-11s in the 90s would have been a good decision but what if biman even converted the dc10s to md10s which had a 2 man cockpit? what are the basic improvements on the md10 from the dc10?

Has TG already suspended flights to CGP? What happened to the passengers who had already bought ticket for future dates?

Has TG already suspended flights to CGP? What happened to the passengers who had already bought ticket for future dates?

AFAIK, the suspension was announced to be effective immediately. I think the pax who already bought the tickets will either get refunded or get flown to DAC and then to CGP on BG or other pvt carriers, though I'm not absolutely sure about this.

imran bhai, i was following ur opinion that replacing the dc-10s with md-11s in the 90s would have been a good decision but what if biman even converted the dc10s to md10s which had a 2 man cockpit? what are the basic improvements on the md10 from the dc10?

The MD-10 programme, though having over 400 aircraft eligible worldwide for the modification, only went as successful as having FedEx as the launch and the only customer. The modification didn't make enough sense for pax operators because by 2000, most major airlines still operating the type (e.g Northwest) already decided to begin replacing the DC-10s with newer aircraft that became available. It made sense for FedEx simply because of the number of the type they were operating (120+), and that they already had the MD-11s in he fleet and hence the MD-10 conversion would greatly reduce crew application complications between the DC-10 and MD-11.

The conversion from DC-10 to MD-10 involved the incorporation of the Boeing Advanced Common Flightdeck (ACF). It employed new computers designed by Honeywell to get rid of most of the old dials and buttons of the original DC-10 cockpit. Six 8"x8" LCD displays were installed identically as in the MD-11s and 3 new computers replaced the 22 separate computers of the DC-10s. While the modification negated the need for Flight Engineers, it also added advanced avionics including weather radar, predictive wind shear detection, CatIIIb autoland capability, satellite communications, GPS, and compatibility options for future systems. The new computers also allowed for pilots to have a single certification to fly both the MD-10 and the MD-11.

http://www.ittefaq.com/content/2008/12/08/102840_1.jpg

http://www.ittefaq.com/content/2008/12/08/news0831.htm

http://www.ittefaq.com/content/2008/12/08/102840_1.jpg

http://www.ittefaq.com/content/2008/12/08/news0831.htm

What the in the world is that!

What the in the world is that!

An architectural display depicting Bangladesh. Nothing unusual, there is something in the same vein at Ninoy Aquino International (MNL), as you arrive and walk through towards customs/baggage claim/immigration. The corridor provides a glimpse of the Philippines.

didnt notice this on the newspaper but saw imran bhais article at this site with publication date 8 dec and source new age:

http://www.southasianmedia.net/index_opinion.cfm?category=Services&country=MAIN#Not%20%E2%80%98yielding%E2%80%99%20into%20success,%20yet!

scroll down the page a little to find it.

Iasif, you mention this

"GMG Airlines, United Airways, Royal Bengal Airlines and Best Air, are faced with troubled times for at least one common error – poor or complete lack of yield management strategies"

What proof do you give? None. I understand GMG with the failed 747-300 although and I am best asured that you really cannot comment on both United & RBA not knowing their strategies nor structure@

Best air with the NG aircraft are best left alone!

Iasif, you mention this

"GMG Airlines, United Airways, Royal Bengal Airlines and Best Air, are faced with troubled times for at least one common error – poor or complete lack of yield management strategies"

What proof do you give? None. I understand GMG with the failed 747-300 although and I am best asured that you really cannot comment on both United & RBA not knowing their strategies nor structure@

I thought they didn't have any strategy in the first place, let alone poor!

I thought they didn't have any strategy in the first place, let alone poor!

RBA & United I have believe............ just that no-one has seen it.

I have seen a little of RBA plans

Iasif, you mention this

"GMG Airlines, United Airways, Royal Bengal Airlines and Best Air, are faced with troubled times for at least one common error – poor or complete lack of yield management strategies"

What proof do you give? None. I understand GMG with the failed 747-300 although and I am best asured that you really cannot comment on both United & RBA not knowing their strategies nor structure@

RBA & United I have believe............ just that no-one has seen it.

I have seen a little of RBA plans

I don't speak about things I'm not comprehensively aware of, and I really couldn't care less if anyone bought whatever I said. I'm absolutely okay with any degree of disagreements anyone may have of whatever opinion I hold. :)

As for United and RBA, I believe I've learnt of enough of their performance so far and their future plans to make the comment I've made. From what I've seen of their future plans, I've noticed that the basis of much of that is hypothetical and often unrealistic unless certain critical industry factors change drastically to their favour.

When I opined about GMG earlier this year, barely anyone believed things could get nearly as worse, and we've seen what eventually happened. Best Air is likely to be the next one to go belly up. RBA and United also had the lasso tightening up around their necks, and the plunging fuel prices have come as a respite but they still have a long way to go before becoming truly sustainable, and it's going to be a rough long way!

As for United and RBA, I believe I've learnt of enough of their performance so far and their future plans to make the comment I've made. From what I've seen of their future plans, I've noticed that the basis of much of that is hypothetical and often unrealistic unless certain critical industry factors change drastically to their favour.

performance so far and their future plans to make the comment I've made.

Completely disagree and your only going on your thoughts as of now..... I just hate NDA's!

Completely disagree and your only going on your thoughts as of now..... I just hate NDA's!

NDA? :dunno:

Non Disclosure Agreement

Non Disclosure Agreement

In Bangladesh you'll often see that companies which will make you sign the non-disclosure/non-circumvention agreements will themselves end up disclosing confidential data or breach the terms of agreement.

Getting back to the point, let's talk about United/RBA's magical plans without forcing you to breach the NDA. Tell me...both United and RBA has plans to serve the Dhaka-London route...how do you think they're going to do that? Biman didn't let GMG to get into the KSA market, what makes you think they'll let United/RBA to squeeze themselves in?

And, if you've seen their figures so far (which I've seen and not going by mere thoughts), you think they're doing well enough to generate a decent ROI to keep their investors happy (considering the going bank rates)?

Speaking about an NDA was in general doesnt mean that I am tied to either one.... The NDA was on my mind at the moment on another trade. Its just interesting to note, RBA have two companies Aviana Airways in Bangladesh and RBA aviation in England.

Speaking about an NDA was in general doesnt mean that I am tied to either one.... The NDA was on my mind at the moment on another trade. Its just interesting to note, RBA have two companies Aviana Airways in Bangladesh and RBA aviation in England.

You said you had a little look at RBA's plans, and then you said you hated NDA's, so I thought it was the NDA holding you back from disclosing sensitive info.

However, can you generally answer my other questions as to how they plan to materialize their plans based on hypothetical assumptions?

By the way, on their original website (www.royalbengalairlines.com), they had a bunch of things to mention under 'About RBA'. Tell me, if you will, how far do you think they are from whatever they've mentioned there (assuming they meant it)?

i have a very close relative who has invested in royal bengal and isnt happy at all about the way the airline is doing. i also have a friend whose father has invested in united and he is also annoyed.

i think the 3 suggestions imran bhai has made for free in his article is worth millions and only if these airlines could follow them they would do a hell lot better.

i have a very close relative who has invested in royal bengal and isnt happy at all about the way the airline is doing. i also have a friend whose father has invested in united and he is also annoyed.

i think the 3 suggestions imran bhai has made for free in his article is worth millions and only if these airlines could follow them they would do a hell lot better.

I think that in both occassions both airlines were thinking [like GMG did] that Biman wouldnt be here for long.......

I think that in both occassions both airlines were thinking [like GMG did] that Biman wouldnt be here for long.......

The very credibility of a business comes into question where their business plan is based on suppositions and vague assumptions. Perhaps only in Bangladesh, people enter into business ventures betting that the entrenched competition will soon become a thing of the past.

Even a non B school graduate should have enough gumption not to indulge in such follies.

At the end of the day you guys have choice now beside GMG & BIMAN

Why has everyone slowed down here? Busy with cow/goat/camel/dumba?

I think that in both occassions both airlines were thinking [like GMG did] that Biman wouldnt be here for long.......

That is the height of stupidity. If you're planning your growth purely based on the demise of someone else (like GMG attempted), you're most likely to get yourself out of business sooner than anyone else! Like the proverbial phrase goes: the prayers of the vultures won't kill the cow! :D

Biman would be around for a long time to come, be it in good shape or not, and be it in the hands of the government or otherwise. The sooner the private operators swallow this for a fact, the better will it be for their own selves.

At the end of the day you guys have choice now beside GMG & BIMAN

Hardly. GMG does not (and probably will not in the foreseeable future) service all destinations Biman flies to. The rest of them have even more miniscule operations.

What's the status of the 747 leases at Biman? Did they return the Orient Thai one back or are both in operation?

What's the status of the 747 leases at Biman? Did they return the Orient Thai one back or are both in operation?

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd236/TheCoolOnes/DSC05280.jpg
Photo by: Imran Asif. Seen here completing the backtracking on Rwy32 for departure off Rwy14 at ZIA.

Both 747s will be with Biman at least until the minimum hours guaranteed to their respective lessors are used up. Though the lease with Kabo is till March '09, the 3,000 hrs guaranteed to them will be used up by the end of the post-Hajj phase, and Biman can thereafter keep the plane till March (which is what they shouldn't do) or return it to Kabo and terminate the lease agreement.

As for Orient Thai, their agreement with Biman is till June '09 and Biman has guaranteed 2 different numbers as the hours guaranteed to them in the same agreement! It says the min guaranteed hours through 12 months is 3,000, but not less than 2,750...whatever that means! :bash:

Why is 5N-MAD backtracking on rwy 32 rather than taxiing on taxiway?

Why is 5N-MAD backtracking on rwy 32 rather than taxiing on taxiway?

Perhaps it needed a change! :D

Taxiway Hotel (which leads to Rwy14) is reportedly under some repair works ($$$), hence the requirement of backtracking I guess.

Perhaps it needed a change! :D

Taxiway Hotel (which leads to Rwy14) is reportedly under some repair works ($$$), hence the requirement of backtracking I guess.

I cant believe that there is 747-200's still in pax operation

In CGP every aircraft has to backtrack because the taxiway leads to the middle of runway. That's the only airport I've seen which doesn't have taxiway parallel to the runway! I think ZYL has the same characteristic. Which moron numbnut designs these airports?

I cant believe that there is 747-200's still in pax operation

That is an '86 vintage 747-200 and there are hundreds of much, much older birds still in regular scheduled service! Saudi Arabian still operates a handful number of 747-100s...but I guess Iran has the most exciting of stuff...Iran Aseman operates 727s and Saha Air operates the last remaining 707 in scheduled pax service! Awesome stuff!!

In CGP every aircraft has to backtrack because the taxiway leads to the middle of runway. That's the only airport I've seen which doesn't have taxiway parallel to the runway! I think ZYL has the same characteristic. Which moron numbnut designs these airports?

Once the whole place where the taxiways should be (in parallel to the runway) is filled with buildings et al, CAAB will take up the challenge of the millennium, driven by a high-powered committee, to demolish the illegal structures and construct the taxiway which will cumulatively take only 20 years, by which time they shall decide to build a new airport somewhere else due to the new demands of the new age of aviation. Someone pleeeaaassseee shoot me!!!

In ZYL, aircraft landing on Rwy11 can exit through the taxiway without backtracking if the aircraft can stop within about 7,000 feet from touchdown. Rwy29 is hopeless though, and heavies landing on it will have to go till the end of the runway before being able to turn around.


CGP:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd236/TheCoolOnes/CGP.jpg


ZYL:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd236/TheCoolOnes/ZYL.jpg

My latest literary effort (futility predetermined!):
http://www.newagebd.com/2008/dec/13/oped.html#1

The original title was 'The Height of Idiocy'...and New Age couldn't probably be nuts enough! ;)

I was very interested to learn that BANGLADESH AWAMI LEAGUE in their election menefesto have declared the following:

15. Communication and Infrastructure
VI. Bangladesh Biman will be restructured to enable it to operate on commercial & profitable basis. Aviation services in the private sector will be encouraged. Modern airports of international standard will be constructed to facilitate air transportation linking Bangladesh with the world.

I hear you all say "here we go again, may Allah save Biman" and what is this so called modern airports?!!!!

Please feel free to add your comments. After all it is the election month and I kinda have a pre election buzz at the moo.

I now wait in anticepation to see what the BNP has in store for us

I was very interested to learn that BANGLADESH AWAMI LEAGUE in their election menefesto have declared the following:

15. Communication and Infrastructure
VI. Bangladesh Biman will be restructured to enable it to operate on commercial & profitable basis. Aviation services in the private sector will be encouraged. Modern airports of international standard will be constructed to facilitate air transportation linking Bangladesh with the world.

I hear you all say "here we go again, may Allah save Biman" and what is this so called modern airports?!!!!

Please feel free to add your comments. After all it is the election month and I kinda have a pre election buzz at the moo.

I now wait in anticepation to see what the BNP has in store for us

Old-time foul talks, delivered in a new fashion. No matter which political party goes to power, Biman's operations is likely to be 'profitable' for their own party members.

Don't be surprised to hear BNP beating AL by saying they'll turn Biman into the world's No.1 airline within 3 years, and that Bangladesh will have the busiest hub airport of the world too!

Politics in Bangladesh is too appalling for me to talk any further than this! :mad:

Dhaka and Beijing have agreed to double the number of air flights between the two countries in a move to boost trade, commerce and investment, officials said Saturday.

They said senior officials of both Bangladesh and China reviewed their bilateral Air Service Agreement in Beijing last month and agreed to raise the number of flights to 14 each side a week.

"We've agreed to double air flights allowing each side to operate 14 more flights in a week," a senior official said of the Civil Aviation Authority of Bangladesh (CAAB) said.

He said both the sides have reached consensus on increasing the number of flights from previously seven to 14 more in a week from each side, as there is a rush of passengers with the growing trade between Bangladesh and China.

A large number of Chinese businessmen visit Bangladesh every month either to explore the possibility of fresh investment or promoting their existing business here.

On the other hand, a large number of Bangladeshis visit China for business and other purposes.

Officials said movement of both way tourists marked a sharp rise in the recent years due to a boost in trade relations.

An official of the Ministry of Civil Aviation and Tourism said a number of local airlines, including state-owned Bangladesh Biman and private Best Air have already sought permission to operate flights on Bangladesh-China route.

"We hope more Chinese airlines will also be interested to operate flights as air traffic increased sharply making the routes more viable," he said.

Referring to information of the Ministry of Commerce and the Bangladesh Export Processing Zones Authority (BEPZA), he said businessmen, particularly those of southwest China's Yunan province, are showing greater interest in increasing trade relations with Bangladesh.

In terms of percentage China constitutes 15 per cent of the country's total imports after India, which registers 16 per cent.

Bangladesh Bank data showed that the total import of the country from China was amounted to over $3.0 billion in the last fiscal year. On the other hand, Bangladesh fetched over $100 from exports of its goods to that country.

http://www.thefinancialexpress-bd.info/search_index.php?page=detail_news&news_id=53234

Dhaka and Beijing have agreed to double the number of air flights between the two countries in a move to boost trade, commerce and investment, officials said Saturday.

They said senior officials of both Bangladesh and China reviewed their bilateral Air Service Agreement in Beijing last month and agreed to raise the number of flights to 14 each side a week.

"We've agreed to double air flights allowing each side to operate 14 more flights in a week," a senior official said of the Civil Aviation Authority of Bangladesh (CAAB) said.

He said both the sides have reached consensus on increasing the number of flights from previously seven to 14 more in a week from each side, as there is a rush of passengers with the growing trade between Bangladesh and China.

A large number of Chinese businessmen visit Bangladesh every month either to explore the possibility of fresh investment or promoting their existing business here.

On the other hand, a large number of Bangladeshis visit China for business and other purposes.

Officials said movement of both way tourists marked a sharp rise in the recent years due to a boost in trade relations.

An official of the Ministry of Civil Aviation and Tourism said a number of local airlines, including state-owned Bangladesh Biman and private Best Air have already sought permission to operate flights on Bangladesh-China route.

"We hope more Chinese airlines will also be interested to operate flights as air traffic increased sharply making the routes more viable," he said.

Referring to information of the Ministry of Commerce and the Bangladesh Export Processing Zones Authority (BEPZA), he said businessmen, particularly those of southwest China's Yunan province, are showing greater interest in increasing trade relations with Bangladesh.

In terms of percentage China constitutes 15 per cent of the country's total imports after India, which registers 16 per cent.

Bangladesh Bank data showed that the total import of the country from China was amounted to over $3.0 billion in the last fiscal year. On the other hand, Bangladesh fetched over $100 from exports of its goods to that country.

http://www.thefinancialexpress-bd.info/search_index.php?page=detail_news&news_id=53234

Open up the Ctg port for southwest China, northeast India etc & there will be a sharper rise in travel between Bangladesh & landlocked Southwest China. But who listens to me?:mad:

Open up the Ctg port for southwest China, northeast India etc & there will be a sharper rise in travel between Bangladesh & landlocked Southwest China. But who listens to me?:mad:

Precisely! The Chittagong port could be the best option to free up trade from the landlocked southwestern part of China, and if you can add the eastern part of India (Agartala et al) and Myanmar in the loop to form a region block for trade, the look of this whole region will change in just about no time at all. The synergy that this trade activity will create can itself generate enough revenues for Bangladesh to support the cost of establishing the much-needed (and even more talked-about) deep-sea port off Chittagong.

But then...we're talking nonsense here as far as the policymakers' ears and minds are concerned!

i have a very close relative who has invested in royal bengal and isnt happy at all about the way the airline is doing. i also have a friend whose father has invested in united and he is also annoyed.

i think the 3 suggestions imran bhai has made for free in his article is worth millions and only if these airlines could follow them they would do a hell lot better.

Tamim, can you explain as to why your relatives and/or friends are annoyed with their investments? Has they not acheived their desired goal or something? If you can, I would like to know.

Open up the Ctg port for southwest China, northeast India etc & there will be a sharper rise in travel between Bangladesh & landlocked Southwest China. But who listens to me?:mad:


I totally agree! Transshipment can help Bangladesh earn so much more revenues and can also increase both air and sea traffic.

Tamim, can you explain as to why your relatives and/or friends are annoyed with their investments? Has they not acheived their desired goal or something? If you can, I would like to know.

mainly 2 reasons: the return on investment isnt promising, and the expansion plans mentioned in their prospectus is seeming to be unrealistic.

Operation of wide-bodied planes starts in Sylhet today
Staff Correspondent . Sylhet

The chief adviser, Fakhruddin Ahmed, is expected to inaugurate the operation of wide-bodied planes here today as renovation of Sylhet Osmani International Airport has already been completed, airport sources said.

The chief adviser is scheduled to arrive here at 9:40am from Dhaka by a flight, the sources added. Earlier in November 2007, a DC-10 aircraft made a test landing at the airport. In early 90s, the then government had taken initiatives to renovate the airport and had undertaken a project in this regard.

The work of runway expansion under the development project also started at that time, although no significant progress in the project was made till the end of the then Awami League government’s rule.

Later the BNP-led alliance government resumed the project work in 2004 involving around Tk 138 crore. But the government had failed to implement the project in time, the sources said.

The project works included expansion of runway, renovation and expansion of two-storey terminal building, construction of two boarding bridges, installation of two escalators, fire protection system, luggage scanning machine, baggage conveyer belt, electrical substation, 18 check-in counters and closed-circuit television cameras.

Hafiz Uddin, manager of Sylhet Osmani International Airport, said everything all is set to operate wide-bodied flights from the airport. ‘The airport is also set to provide passengers with services equivalent to international standard,’ he added.

http://www.newagebd.com/2008/dec/15/nat.html

Operation of wide-bodied planes starts in Sylhet today


Anybody out there who can get us some new Osmani International pictures?

mainly 2 reasons: the return on investment isnt promising, and the expansion plans mentioned in their prospectus is seeming to be unrealistic.

Probably the lack of equipment avaialble in todays market

The dash 8's I mean, everyone wants one

CCCI demands Biman flights on Ctg-Bangkok route (http://www.newagebd.com/2008/dec/15/nat.html)

The Chittagong Chamber of Commerce and Industry president, Saifuzzaman Chowdhury, on Sunday demanded immediate introduction of Biman flights on the Chittagong-Bangkok route.

The chamber president made the demand in a fax message sent to the special assistant to the chief adviser, Mahabub Jamil.

He said business people were suffering a lot as the Thai Airways had recently suspended its flights on the route for four months.

‘The sufferings of the business people will be eased if the Biman authorities introduce at least two flights a week,’ he said.

Introduction of Biman flights on the route will be useful for a large number of people going to Bangkok for treatment and help boost country’s tourism sector, the chamber chief added.

Best Air makes debut flight to Canton Jan 7
Naim-Ul-Karim

Privately owned Best Air is set to become the first Bangladesh airlines to fly China after Dhaka and Beijing signed a new air service agreement, a spokesman of the company said Monday.

"We are going to operate our debut flight between Dhaka and Canton from January 7," Tito Siddique of Best Air told the FE.

"We've already obtained clearance from the authorities of both Bangladesh and China."

He further said the dream came to reality as Dhaka and Beijing have reviewed their bilateral service agreement to allow each side operate 14 more flights from previous seven in a week.

Dhaka and Beijing have agreed to double the number of air flights between the two countries in a move to boost trade, commerce and investment, a senior government official had earlier told the FE.

Source: The Financial Express: http://www.thefinancialexpress-bd.info/search_index.php?page=detail_news&news_id=53362

Best Air makes debut flight to Canton Jan 7
Naim-Ul-Karim

Privately owned Best Air is set to become the first Bangladesh airlines to fly China after Dhaka and Beijing signed a new air service agreement, a spokesman of the company said Monday.

"We are going to operate our debut flight between Dhaka and Canton from January 7," Tito Siddique of Best Air told the FE.

"We've already obtained clearance from the authorities of both Bangladesh and China."

He further said the dream came to reality as Dhaka and Beijing have reviewed their bilateral service agreement to allow each side operate 14 more flights from previous seven in a week.

Dhaka and Beijing have agreed to double the number of air flights between the two countries in a move to boost trade, commerce and investment, a senior government official had earlier told the FE.

Source: The Financial Express: http://www.thefinancialexpress-bd.info/search_index.php?page=detail_news&news_id=53362

Is Best Air still operating all the routes that it had already launched with much fanfare, much as CMB, MLE?

My dad travelled to DAC from Riyadh on the 11th of Dec. But the baggage that he had checked in have still not arrived. The flight originated from Jeddah, landed in Riyadh, took on pax and left for DAC. On the luggage belts at DAC were only the checked in luggage of those pax who had boarded from Jeddah.

They told all pax to check back on the 15th. My dad went to the airport just to be sent home again and asked to check back tomorrow. I’ve always believed there is some kind of compensation for this irregularity which is stated in the ‘Convention for the Unification of Certain Rules for International Carriage by Air’. But I’m not sure if all airlines are obligated to the same rules without modifying it. One of the articles of the convention makes it possible to get compensation from damage caused due to delay of baggage. So isn’t that saying you could claim compensation on travel costs as well as on the baggage itself? Does anyone also know how long you can wait before giving up hope and making the claim?

Is Best Air still operating all the routes that it had already launched with much fanfare, much as CMB, MLE?

afaik, theyve suspended operations to colombo and male already and probably also dubai because of nonpayment of fees there. maybe theyll operate to china until they pile up enough dues to be barred by china as well. as imran bhai puts it, its only with such a lousy regulator like caab that carriers like these can continue to do what they do.

My dad travelled to DAC from Riyadh on the 11th of Dec. But the baggage that he had checked in have still not arrived. The flight originated from Jeddah, landed in Riyadh, took on pax and left for DAC. On the luggage belts at DAC were only the checked in luggage of those pax who had boarded from Jeddah.

They told all pax to check back on the 15th. My dad went to the airport just to be sent home again and asked to check back tomorrow. I’ve always believed there is some kind of compensation for this irregularity which is stated in the ‘Convention for the Unification of Certain Rules for International Carriage by Air’. But I’m not sure if all airlines are obligated to the same rules without modifying it. One of the articles of the convention makes it possible to get compensation from damage caused due to delay of baggage. So isn’t that saying you could claim compensation on travel costs as well as on the baggage itself? Does anyone also know how long you can wait before giving up hope and making the claim?

there must be compensation avlbl as biman is an iata member airline and bangladesh is an icao member state. i think as soon as an arriving passenger finds that his baggage has not arrived there is an immediate usd 50 compensation applicable for each piece of baggage delayed. if the baggage is lost, the compensation will obviously be much greater. imran bhai could elaborate you on this but he has gone quiet for alsmot 2 days now

My dad travelled to DAC from Riyadh on the 11th of Dec. But the baggage that he had checked in have still not arrived. The flight originated from Jeddah, landed in Riyadh, took on pax and left for DAC. On the luggage belts at DAC were only the checked in luggage of those pax who had boarded from Jeddah.

They told all pax to check back on the 15th. My dad went to the airport just to be sent home again and asked to check back tomorrow. I’ve always believed there is some kind of compensation for this irregularity which is stated in the ‘Convention for the Unification of Certain Rules for International Carriage by Air’. But I’m not sure if all airlines are obligated to the same rules without modifying it. One of the articles of the convention makes it possible to get compensation from damage caused due to delay of baggage. So isn’t that saying you could claim compensation on travel costs as well as on the baggage itself? Does anyone also know how long you can wait before giving up hope and making the claim?

Sorry, I forgot to mention that the carrier in this case was Saudi Arabian

Sorry, I forgot to mention that the carrier in this case was Saudi Arabian

ok...i had sent an sms to imran bhai and on a return sms he said that saudi arabia is a signatory state of the montreal convention (which replaces warsaw) and under the rules for delayed baggae under 21 days the compensation varies from carrier to carrier but if it goes beyond 21 days then the airline must consider it to be lost and compensate a fixed 1000 special drawing rights which is approx usd 1500 as per imf rules.

I can share that about ten years ago United Airlines (USA) lost a small carry-on bag with my business presentation items and they ended up compensating me $1700 -- with a letter of profuse apology to boot...

United Airways to break even next year
(http://www.bangladeshmonitor.net/aviation_story.php?recordID=1796)
United Airways BD Ltd, the first airline by non-resident Bangladeshi (NRB) investment, hopes to break even as well as go for public listing next year (2009), and is optimistic of giving profit dividends in 2010.

The airline, which launched scheduled passenger flights on July 10, 2007, with its sure and steady steps has captured 40 per cent domestic market shame. The airline went international on September 24, 2008 operating daily flights to Kolkata.

Capt. Tasbirul Ahmed Chowdhury, Chairman and Managing Director who said this while talking to The Bangladesh Monitor, believes on time departures, innovative pricing and planning well ahead of time have been the key to its fast acceptance among the passengers.

The airline has already carried over one lakh revenue paying passengers operating over 5,000 flights with dispatch reliability of 98 per cent and load factor of around 90 per cent.

The CMD said on the second day of launching flights to Syedpur, the airline achieved a load factor of 78 per cent on that route.

United Airways is operating five daily flights from Dhaka to Chittagong, twice daily flights to Jessore, one daily flight to Sylhet and Cox's Bazar, thrice weekly flights to Syedpur and Barisal.

Adherence to safety, schedule and service has been the key focus of the airline, he said adding "We have a lot of spares and the aircraft_ two Dash 8-100_ undergo 24-hour maintenance."

Regarding going to the capital market, the United Airways CEO said the airline hopes to float shares for raising Tk 350 crores for expansion of the fleet to enable it to operate routes outside the region. He has MD83 or A310 in his mind for those overseas routes.

Captain Tasbirul Ahmed Chowdhury hopes to operate flights from Dhaka to Shamshernagar, Chittagong to Sylhet via Shamshernagar and Dhaka-Kathmandu flights via Syedpur, two routes not thought of by other operators earlier. The Chittagong-Shamshernagar flights will require over-flying Indian airspace and he is learnt to have approached the government in this regard. Chittagong-Yangon and Chittagong-Chiangmai routes are also at the back of his mind, as is shuttle service to St. Martins Island and offering of chartered flights, flying academy in Sylhet and high-performance helicopter to offer emergency lifesaving services.

If United Airways is able to fly these routes, then the airline will go for its third Dash 8-100, also by outright purchase like the earlier two. He is optimistic of setting up the airline's own hangar and offer maintenance service to other airlines.

But what will surely stir the market is Tasbirul Ahmed Chowdhury's plans to give 20,000 seats of United Airlines away at Tk 2,000 only to different destinations between Janu-ary 1 to December 31, 2009.

Fog disrupts flights, ferry services (http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=67644)

Dense fog enveloped vast areas for hours yesterday morning disrupting road, river and air communications affecting life across the country.

This situation will continue for the next few days, Met Office sources said.

Poor visibility due to fog caused cancellation of flights to and from Zia International Airport (ZIA) early in the day.

Ferry and launch services, and movement of long route buses in particular were badly affected.

People of northern region of the country have been the worst sufferers as fog blanketed a number of districts for most of the time in the last few days, and the sun was not visible. The districts include Rajshahi, Natore, Rangpur, Dinajpur, Kurigram, Pabna and Sirajganj.

According to flight operation wing at ZIA, a hajj flight of Bangladesh Biman landed at the airport at about 6:30 am, and then no other flight could land or take off till 9:30 am.

The lowest temperature in the country yesterday was 12.5 degrees Celsius at Srimongal in Sylhet. In the capital, temperature was 16.6 degrees Celsius.

This has become an annual problem. Can anything be done to solve this? Is there any scope of upgrading to a CATIII C ILS although this is unlikely to benefit BD carriers in the short term but maybe should be planned to co-incide with Biman's deliveries of 777/787s.

My aunt & her family came to Dhaka on 13th from IAD (IAD-DXB on UA, then DXB-DAC on EK). Their EK plane circled over DAC for around 2 hours because of fog. Some other flights were diverted to CGP. Then EK was diverted to CCU. It was announced to awaiting relatives at DAC that EK was going to CCU. When it was nearly 16 minutes away from CCU it turned back & returned to DAC. My question is how did the plane stay in holding pattern for 2 hour 45 minutes? Is this because it was a 777-300ER? If it was a 777-200ER could it stay above for so long?

My question is how did the plane stay in holding pattern for 2 hour 45 minutes? Is this because it was a 777-300ER? If it was a 777-200ER could it stay above for so long?
I think Imran mentioned that ME carriers usually carry enough fuel, where possible, to do DXB-DAC-DXB without refuelling at DAC so it would have had enough to hold for that amount of time.

I can share that about ten years ago United Airlines (USA) lost a small carry-on bag with my business presentation items and they ended up compensating me $1700 -- with a letter of profuse apology to boot...

The keywords being "ten years ago". I wonder how would UA react, today.

Fog disrupts flights, ferry services (http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=67644)



This has become an annual problem. Can anything be done to solve this? Is there any scope of upgrading to a CATIII C ILS although this is unlikely to benefit BD carriers in the short term but maybe should be planned to co-incide with Biman's deliveries of 777/787s.

CAT III? ZA doen't even have CAT II!

My aunt & her family came to Dhaka on 13th from IAD (IAD-DXB on UA, then DXB-DAC on EK). Their EK plane circled over DAC for around 2 hours because of fog. Some other flights were diverted to CGP. Then EK was diverted to CCU. It was announced to awaiting relatives at DAC that EK was going to CCU. When it was nearly 16 minutes away from CCU it turned back & returned to DAC. My question is how did the plane stay in holding pattern for 2 hour 45 minutes? Is this because it was a 777-300ER? If it was a 777-200ER could it stay above for so long?

I wasn't aware that UA flies to DXB? You sure it is not a codeshare operated by some other carrier?

UA does fly nonstop to DXB from IAD. It's not codeshared.

My aunt & her family came to Dhaka on 13th from IAD (IAD-DXB on UA, then DXB-DAC on EK). Their EK plane circled over DAC for around 2 hours because of fog. Some other flights were diverted to CGP. Then EK was diverted to CCU. It was announced to awaiting relatives at DAC that EK was going to CCU. When it was nearly 16 minutes away from CCU it turned back & returned to DAC. My question is how did the plane stay in holding pattern for 2 hour 45 minutes? Is this because it was a 777-300ER? If it was a 777-200ER could it stay above for so long?

It's a walk in the park thing to do for a 777-200ER/-300ER. The DXB-DAC leg at just over 2,000 nm is a mere hop for these planes (remember CO does EWR-HKG-EWR with their -200ERs over the north pole!). If needed, it could hold for much longer than 2h45m. In these days of suddenly cheap fuel prices (well, for EK it never was a question of affordability anyways!), holding for a couple-odd hours in the air could well be more economical than diverting to an alternate right-away and then having to provide all the services to 300-odd pax! :)

This has become an annual problem. Can anything be done to solve this? Is there any scope of upgrading to a CATIII C ILS although this is unlikely to benefit BD carriers in the short term but maybe should be planned to co-incide with Biman's deliveries of 777/787s.

CAT III? ZA doen't even have CAT II!

As TIslam said, ZIA is CAT I, as evident from the info here (decision height above 200ft):
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd236/TheCoolOnes/VGZR-Jepp.jpg

Personally, I don't think CAT IIIC, which allows for zero decision height and zero runway visual range, is safe for most (if not all) countries of Southeast Asia to adopt anytime soon simply because of runway obstruction possibilities. As a matter of fact, zero-visibility landing/takeoff is still quite a long way from being absolutely safe in any part of the world. CAT IIIB is really as good as it gets without compromising safety, and if a pilot still can't make it under those conditions, it's certainly not worth risking anything beyond that.

ZIA can't even keep it's CAT I ILS well-calibrated at all times, and imagine what it would be like if they were to manage CAT IIIC...the planes could end up touching down on the terminal!

...the planes could end up touching down on the terminal!
:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious True. Very true! But as it's xmas time, thought I'd ask Santa anyway :)

I'm surprised at my own dismal failure to provoke anyone enough...and here's my latest try!
http://www.newagebd.com/2008/dec/20/oped.html#8

I'm surprised at my own dismal failure to provoke anyone enough...and here's my latest try!
http://www.newagebd.com/2008/dec/20/oped.html#8

Excellent piece as usual Imran Bhai. I guess -- 'Try and try again--- and ye shall succeed' -- one day.

The contrast between their 'nincompoop-osity' and your reasoned and informed opinions will show through eventually...

Anybody out there who can get us some new Osmani International pictures?

http://myaviation.net/search/display_photo.file?filename=6/0/6/01490606.jpg&ZyXtCe=MTk0MjU3&id=01490606&ViD=big

http://myaviation.net/search/display_photo.file?filename=7/0/6/01490607.jpg&ZyXtCe=MTk0NDE2&id=01490607&ViD=big

http://myaviation.net/search/display_photo.file?filename=0/5/7/01490750.jpg&ZyXtCe=MTk0NTI4&id=01490750&ViD=big

http://myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=01490606

http://myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=01490607

http://myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=01490750


...more to come.

Wasim / Planemannyc

BTW, met Imran -- owe him lunch as I kept him out for such a long time. One of the coolest and nicest guys around. This forum is lucky to have him, and I am honored to have met him.

...more to come.

Wasim / Planemannyc

BTW, met Imran -- owe him lunch as I kept him out for such a long time. One of the coolest and nicest guys around. This forum is lucky to have him, and I am honored to have met him.

Oh, cut that crap! It's good to be friends...and that's all that matters. I bring nothing extraordinary into this forum which is extraordinary by itself...thanks to the amazing bunch of nuts we have in here! :)

Those are nice pics at ZYL...which reminds me to say how poorly utilized the airport still is. The Chief Adviser, amidst great fanfare, recently inaugurated the extended facilities at ZYL claiming it now to be of intl standard, but the damned tower opens at 0930 hours, while airplanes are having to divert to Kolkata and Yangon due to poor visibility at DAC and CGP, and while that in ZYL is fair enough to allow landing. The other day, 3 BG flights diverted to Kolkata and Yangon between 0700 and 0830 hours while the met reported the visibility in ZYL to be perfectly okay, simply because the tower wouldn't open before 0930. Diverting to Kolkata/Yangon potentially involves 3x times more in cost for BG that what it would've if they could divert to ZYL instead.

CGP and ZYL should have the towers open 24x7...and NOW!

CGP and ZYL should have the towers open 24x7...and NOW!

You remember once a Z5 Dash-8 had to land in CGP at night with the help of 'kupi' lights because the airport was closed & none could turn-on the runway lights. And you are talking about keeping towers open 24x7!

http://www.airliners.net/FC_nowm.file?u=THwxNDUxMzA2fGQ5ZzhoN2o2cXdlcnR5

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Biman-Bangladesh/Fokker-F-28-4000-Fellowship/1451306/M/

http://www.airliners.net/FC_nowm.file?u=THwxNDUxMzA1fGQ5ZzhoN2o2cXdlcnR5

http://www.airliners.net/photo/GMG-Airlines/De-Havilland-Canada/1451305/M/

More to come...

Wasim / Planemannyc

Oh, cut that crap! It's good to be friends...and that's all that matters. I bring nothing extraordinary into this forum which is extraordinary by itself...thanks to the amazing bunch of nuts we have in here! :)

Those are nice pics at ZYL...which reminds me to say how poorly utilized the airport still is. The Chief Adviser, amidst great fanfare, recently inaugurated the extended facilities at ZYL claiming it now to be of intl standard, but the damned tower opens at 0930 hours, while airplanes are having to divert to Kolkata and Yangon due to poor visibility at DAC and CGP, and while that in ZYL is fair enough to allow landing. The other day, 3 BG flights diverted to Kolkata and Yangon between 0700 and 0830 hours while the met reported the visibility in ZYL to be perfectly okay, simply because the tower wouldn't open before 0930. Diverting to Kolkata/Yangon potentially involves 3x times more in cost for BG that what it would've if they could divert to ZYL instead.

CGP and ZYL should have the towers open 24x7...and NOW!

Why aren't all the airlines making such a demand to CAAB/GoB? They should collectively demand that ZYL be made a 24 hr ops, precisely for winter weather problems.

[IMG]
...more to come.

Wasim / Planemannyc

BTW, met Imran -- owe him lunch as I kept him out for such a long time. One of the coolest and nicest guys around. This forum is lucky to have him, and I am honored to have met him.

Thanks for the pictures, planemannyc. Been to ZYL recently?

While I am yet to met the person, Imran, judging by his online demeanor appears to be a gentleman and a cool guy. Hope to see him in person, in the near future.

As TIslam said, ZIA is CAT I, as evident from the info here (decision height above 200ft):

Personally, I don't think CAT IIIC, which allows for zero decision height and zero runway visual range, is safe for most (if not all) countries of Southeast Asia to adopt anytime soon simply because of runway obstruction possibilities. As a matter of fact, zero-visibility landing/takeoff is still quite a long way from being absolutely safe in any part of the world. CAT IIIB is really as good as it gets without compromising safety, and if a pilot still can't make it under those conditions, it's certainly not worth risking anything beyond that.

ZIA can't even keep it's CAT I ILS well-calibrated at all times, and imagine what it would be like if they were to manage CAT IIIC...the planes could end up touching down on the terminal!

Quite right. Even though most major airports in the US as well as many in major cities across the globe are equipped with CAT IIIC, the actual usage for the zero/zero landing is probably non existent or just a handful in every so many years, if that. Are there any stats available for such info., Imran? Having said that, didn't the winter operations improve greatly at DEL owing to the deployment of CAT IIIB? If I'm not mistaken, early morning to mid morning flights used to get routinely diverted or put on hold at DEL during the peak (winter) fog season.

Of course, CAAB's technical abilities and competence is an altogether, a diffrent story!

I'm surprised at my own dismal failure to provoke anyone enough...and here's my latest try!
http://www.newagebd.com/2008/dec/20/oped.html#8

Do you personally know Mr. Jamil? If yes, I wonder what impact this article would have your relationship with him. While there indeed could be deficiencies or other lackings in persons such as Mr. Jamil, could it be that the structure of GoB and its bureaucracy(ies) is such that no matter who is at the helm, it is but a foregone conclusion that running into an iceberg or a shoal is simply unavoidable?

Thanks for the pictures, planemannyc. Been to ZYL recently?

While I am yet to met the person, Imran, judging by his online demeanor appears to be a gentleman and a cool guy. Hope to see him in person, in the near future.

Yep, was there literally for about 24 hours -- took a Biman F-28 (Fossil-28) to Sylhet - the a/c had roaches in it (absolutely disgusting) and United Dash 8 back. Biman flight took off 30 minutes late - amazing considering Biman, and the United flight was on-time and the airline seemed to be very professionally managed.

Yep, was there literally for about 24 hours -- took a Biman F-28 (Fossil-28) to Sylhet - the a/c had roaches in it (absolutely disgusting) and United Dash 8 back. Biman flight took off 30 minutes late - amazing considering Biman, and the United flight was on-time and the airline seemed to be very professionally managed.

Did you jumpseat? Imran could have managed that.

Quite right. Even though most major airports in the US as well as many in major cities across the globe are equipped with CAT IIIC, the actual usage for the zero/zero landing is probably non existent or just a handful in every so many years, if that. Are there any stats available for such info., Imran? Having said that, didn't the winter operations improve greatly at DEL owing to the deployment of CAT IIIB? If I'm not mistaken, early morning to mid morning flights used to get routinely diverted or put on hold at DEL during the peak (winter) fog season.

Of course, CAAB's technical abilities and competence is an altogether, a diffrent story!

Before zero visibility landings are made under CATIIIC, basically just to periodically check and confirm the system's performance, most airport authorities conduct manual checking of the runway for debris and other obstructions, which isn't possible for day-to-day operations. Development of reliable and economical laser sensors to be installed through both sides of the entire length of runway are underway, and will take quite a few years to become feasible on a wide-scale basis. Ops at DEL has improved greatly as far as landings are concerned, but airspace management over DEL is still quite terrible because of the 'reserved' airspace for the air force and other military ops.

Do you personally know Mr. Jamil? If yes, I wonder what impact this article would have your relationship with him. While there indeed could be deficiencies or other lackings in persons such as Mr. Jamil, could it be that the structure of GoB and its bureaucracy(ies) is such that no matter who is at the helm, it is but a foregone conclusion that running into an iceberg or a shoal is simply unavoidable?

Yes, I know him personally...somewhat...but that can't stop me from saying what I feel. I didn't mean to offend him, but can't help it if he takes it offensively onto himself. And I also don't think the failures had much to do with the structure of the GoB and the prevailing bureaucracy.

The ratification of Cape Town Convention is stuck at the very last step, awaiting the Foreign Ministry to authorize the BD High Commissioner in Italy to submit the official papers in Rome. The talks about resuming flights to JFK (and that too 'non-stop') was nonsense from the very beginning. And what do you think it takes, apart from wisdom, to publish a financial report for a PLC? Singer BD Ltd., the private Company he is also the Chairman of, is regularly acclaimed for publishing very good reports, and he also included in an experienced FCA as a Member of the Board at Biman. If you don't do something good, that you can do, and have all the tools (and the reasons) to do it...what comes of you at the end of the day?

If there's a will, there ought to be a way! :)

Did you jumpseat? Imran could have managed that.

Unfortunately, not. One, had my family flying with me - and it's not easy with a 13 month old -- so stayed put in my assigned seat; two, i have burnt enough favors from the poor man - took him away from his family right after eid chasing planes over the runway!

Over 1,000 pilgrims stranded in Jeddah as Biman cancels flight

http://bdnews24.com/details.php?id=71789&cid=2

Looks like what Imran had been warning about is coming true. Poor pilgrims. Let me guess - the 747s were out of service?




Sun, Dec 21st, 2008 9:46 pm BdST
Dhaka, Dec 21 (bdnews24.com)—Up to 1,500 Bangladeshi hajj pilgrims have been stranded at Jeddah airport for up to two days following the cancellation of a Biman Bangladesh Airlines flight.

Biman said the flight was cancelled due to "technical trouble" of a plane.

The officials of Bangladesh's national flag carrier said the stranded pilgrims would return home within the next two to three days as two more additional aircraft will fly to Jeddah Sunday night.

"Yes, there was a problem with the flight schedule since one of our aircraft had technical trouble," Zahed Kuddus, Biman's managing director and chief executive officer, said to bdnews24.com on Sunday night.

"In addition to our two 747 planes, we are sending two more DC 10 aircraft tonight to Jeddah to carry back the stranded pilgrims," said Kuddus Sunday night.

The managing director said all four aircraft with passengers on board would return Monday.

"I hope the stranded hajj passengers will be able to return home in the next two to three days," he said.

Those stranded, many of them elderly, have been facing discomfort and distressing conditions, one of the stranded passengers told bdnews24.com from Jeddah.

"About 1,000 hajjis were forced to camp out on the floor of the airport because of the cancelled flight," Mostofa Azad Chowdhury, member of Rangpur Chamber of Commerce and Industries, told bdnews24.com's Rangpur correspondent Liaqat Ali Badal by telephone.

"In addition, about 500 passengers have been stranded at the airport since Friday."

He alleged that the Biman office in Jeddah did not manage hotel facilities for the passengers.

"According to international practice, airlines must bear the expenses of hotel, foods and transport facilities of passengers if any flight is cancelled for technical reasons," he pointed out.

"Elderly men and women have been forced to wait on the floor in the chilling temperature because Biman has not managed hotels for us," he said.

bdnews24.com/krc/rah/2141hours

Over 1,000 pilgrims stranded in Jeddah as Biman cancels flight

Looks like what Imran had been warning about is coming true. Poor pilgrims. Let me guess - the 747s were out of service?

This problem could've happened in the pre-Hajj phase, but was avoided through cancelling dozens of scheduled flights. The problem now has happened owing to Orient Thai's 747 being mostly grounded for technical reasons over the last 10 days, leading to returning pilgrims getting stranded. Again, BG has has cancelled numerous scheduled flights to free up DC-10s to send to JED, some of which have already been operated and another 3/4 will be sent over the next 2 days.

At the end of th day, if you factor in the 'opportunity cost' of cancelled scheduled flights while calculating Biman's profitability from Hajj ops this year (which should've been really good considering the currently low oil prices and fares set during the peak oil prices), you'd most likely end up in the red.

Request marked 'urgent' has come wizzing past my desk of an airline looking for a Dash 8-300 to operate in Bangladesh....

Unsure if its for a established or upcoming airline

Request marked 'urgent' has come wizzing past my desk of an airline looking for a Dash 8-300 to operate in Bangladesh....

Unsure if its for a established or upcoming airline


I read recently somewhere, that United Airways is currently looking for one to expand their routes.

Yep, was there literally for about 24 hours -- took a Biman F-28 (Fossil-28) to Sylhet - the a/c had roaches in it (absolutely disgusting) and United Dash 8 back. Biman flight took off 30 minutes late - amazing considering Biman, and the United flight was on-time and the airline seemed to be very professionally managed.

Great photos man, do you have any more? what about when you were flying back?

This problem could've happened in the pre-Hajj phase, but was avoided through cancelling dozens of scheduled flights. The problem now has happened owing to Orient Thai's 747 being mostly grounded for technical reasons over the last 10 days, leading to returning pilgrims getting stranded. Again, BG has has cancelled numerous scheduled flights to free up DC-10s to send to JED, some of which have already been operated and another 3/4 will be sent over the next 2 days.

At the end of th day, if you factor in the 'opportunity cost' of cancelled scheduled flights while calculating Biman's profitability from Hajj ops this year (which should've been really good considering the currently low oil prices and fares set during the peak oil prices), you'd most likely end up in the red.

It's just hopeless! We should just right off Biman. The collective incompetence and lunacy is just astounding!

Great photos man, do you have any more? what about when you were flying back?

akbar1 why are you always curious about united? How much have you invested in that company?

Ops at DEL has improved greatly as far as landings are concerned, but airspace management over DEL is still quite terrible because of the 'reserved' airspace for the air force and other military ops.

The Indians are yet to see the light on importance of making DEL airspace a non-military one. It is such a big country that military activities could be dedicated to non commercially important airspace in the country. Here in the US, military does not have upper hand in such matters. On the contrary, the federal government opened up a large area of restricted [military use] airspace/corridors during the peak summer travel season, this year, to ease congestion and chronic delays.


The ratification of Cape Town Convention is stuck at the very last step, awaiting the Foreign Ministry to authorize the BD High Commissioner in Italy to submit the official papers in Rome.

So you're saying, once again it is the simple footing dragging and useless paper shuffling at MoFA that is holding up the ratification? Then again, isn't the bureaucracy [in]famous for that?


The talks about resuming flights to JFK (and that too 'non-stop') was nonsense from the very beginning.

Isn't that what they (the advisors, ministers and as such) are known for, a lot of "nonsense talk"?


And what do you think it takes, apart from wisdom, to publish a financial report for a PLC?

Very little except, have some dough and a contract with a CPA [CA] firm.


If there's a will, there ought to be a way! :)

You said it, brother.

So you're saying, once again it is the simple footing dragging and useless paper shuffling at MoFA that is holding up the ratification? Then again, isn't the bureaucracy [in]famous for that?

Isn't that what they (the advisors, ministers and as such) are known for, a lot of "nonsense talk"?


And what do you think it takes, apart from wisdom, to publish a financial report for a PLC? [/QUOTE]

Very little except, have some dough and a contract with a CPA [CA] firm.[/QUOTE]

1. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs obviously don't understand the importance of ratifying the convention at the soonest, and hence have no urgency...but it is the Ministry of Civil Aviation whose interests are at stake and it's their duty to keep chasing the MoFA and get it done which they haven't been seen to be doing at all.

2. Mr. Jamil made Mr. Adeeb Khan a Member of the Board through his personal initiative and Mr. Adeeb is a Partner of Rahman Rahman Huq who represents KPMG in Bangladesh. Understandably, awarding the contract to KPMG would've looked unfair, but even doing that would've at least fetched a credible report! Neither KPMG was given the task, nor was anyone else...and there's no clue whatsoever as to what Mr. Jamil meant about breaking-even by December and all that talks about becoming profitable!

akbar1 why are you always curious about united? How much have you invested in that company?


Customer feedback is very important.:)

United Airways to submit IPO application to SEC by March

FE Report

Local private carrier United Airways will float its shares through the stock markets sometime in 2009, in what could be the first ever listed airline in the history of the country's capital market, its top executive has said.

The domestic airline, expects to submit a proposal to the Securities and Exchange Commission by March next to haul Tk 600 million (Tk 60 crore) via initial public offering (IPO), Tasbirul Ahmed Chowdhury, United's chief executive officer, has told the FE.

But analysts have remained wary of the carrier's seemingly aggressive move for the floatation, saying the global financial crisis coupled with a churning 2008- the worst year for the aviation history-could make the IPO process "challenging."

"Our board has given its consent (for the floatation). The public should stake on our success," Mr Chowdhury, also a pilot, said.

"The losses we made in the first year of operation are insignificant. Our liabilities are also minimal. We hope the carrier will swing to profits next year. This makes our case for listing compelling," he added.

The private carrier, 95 per cent owned by non-resident Bangladeshis, started its operation in July 2007 after purchasing a Dash-8 from its Canadian manufacturer Bombardier. It added another Dash-8 to its fleet in March this year and plans to purchase more aircraft in the next five years.

The United chief said the airline's losses totalled Tk 39 million in the first year of its operation ending June 2008, a figure Mr Chowdhury called 'insignificant.'

The airline, which has already captured 40 per cent share in the domestic market, would claw its way up to profits from 2009, he insisted, despite the global financial downturn and a litany of uncertainties that characterise the aviation industry.

Syeed Khan, a partner with private equity firm Asian Tiger Capital, predicted that "a negative environment"-locally and globally-would make the carrier's future share floatation challenging, even if prices of jet fuel fall further.

Legacy of its rivals, particularly those of GMG and Best Air, higher operating environment for Bangladeshi carriers, global financial downturn and margin pressure are the negative factors, Mr Khan said, would certainly weigh on United's efforts.

In May, GMG loped lucrative Dhaka-Dubai route on the back of bloated losses from record fuel price spiral, fierce competition and huge maintenance costs for the leased Boeing 747-300 aircraft. Later in September, the embattled airline, the country's first private airline, axed as many as 150 employees as it remained trussed up in dire financial straits.

Industry insiders say, Best Air is also not faring well, despite its rapid expansion and massive marketing drives. Best Aviation virtually withdrew from the domestic market and folded up its Dubai route after operating just 15 days.

http://www.thefinancialexpress-bd.info/print_view.php?news_id=53994

United Airways to submit IPO application to SEC by March


Hey Imran do you know if United is beginning to be profitable in their venture now?

Biman's 737-800

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6433813&nseq=1

Hey Imran do you know if United is beginning to be profitable in their venture now?

Well, as per this report itself they were at a loss till June 2008. And I've opined earlier here that much of the future plans disclosed so far by United and RBA are often unrealistic/unattainable under existing terms of different ASA's, while some would be extremely challenging in the wake of the global recession.

Take a closer read at this:
The United chief said the airline's losses totalled Tk 39 million in the first year of its operation ending June 2008, a figure Mr Chowdhury called 'insignificant.'

The airline, which has already captured 40 per cent share in the domestic market, would claw its way up to profits from 2009, he insisted, despite the global financial downturn and a litany of uncertainties that characterise the aviation industry.

One, they seem to be engrossed with the idea of capturing as much market share as possible. Two, even after having captured 40% of the market by operating 2x Dash-8s, if they've lost BDT 39 million for the year ending on June 2008, something is terribly wrong. Three, the level of confidence shown to override the global economic turmoil and be profitable in 2009 seems 'spooky' enough to imagine that an attempt is made to lure the people for the IPO.

The point is, the few years ahead is showing all signs to be very discomforting for almost any kind of business, and the airline business is inherently unstable. Just note that despite the massive slump in oil prices, the airlines worldwide aren't jumping around in joy...for the simple reason that they know their market will possibly shrink much faster than the operating costs...hence leaving them high and dry.

Two elements will be crucial for survival and success: common sense and humility. :)

... took him away from his family right after eid chasing planes over the runway!

So when do we get to see those pictures?

So AI Express is still flying to DAC? I thought they wouldn't last a month after their nightmarish first flight!

[QUOTE=iasif;29815652]
One, they seem to be engrossed with the idea of capturing as much market share as possible. Two, even after having captured 40% of the market by operating 2x Dash-8s, if they've lost BDT 39 million for the year ending on June 2008, something is terribly wrong. Three, the level of confidence shown to override the global economic turmoil and be profitable in 2009 seems 'spooky' enough to imagine that an attempt is made to lure the people for the IPO.
QUOTE]

iasif,

You are never going to get a company, especially in Aviation to post a profit in their full year of operations..... its absolute lucratise... thus for a start up company operating 2 x Dash 8's in this type of economy should be commended.

However, realising an IPO in 2009 due to the current economic conditions is absolute crazy!

[QUOTE=iasif;29815652]
One, they seem to be engrossed with the idea of capturing as much market share as possible. Two, even after having captured 40% of the market by operating 2x Dash-8s, if they've lost BDT 39 million for the year ending on June 2008, something is terribly wrong. Three, the level of confidence shown to override the global economic turmoil and be profitable in 2009 seems 'spooky' enough to imagine that an attempt is made to lure the people for the IPO.
QUOTE]

iasif,

You are never going to get a company, especially in Aviation to post a profit in their full year of operations..... its absolute lucratise... thus for a start up company operating 2 x Dash 8's in this type of economy should be commended.

However, realising an IPO in 2009 due to the current economic conditions is absolute crazy!

You've missed my point. It's completely understandable if a startup airline like United loses BDT 39 million over a year's operation - a year through which fuel prices were outrageous, and fares couldn't possibly be hiked up enough. In that case, the captivity of 40% of the market is either untrue, or had been achieved at a loss resulting out of uneconomic yield (as discussed just a few days earlier here). Either way, that's disappointing - there's no flamboyancy in stating a figure that's not correct; and there's no point in achieving a degree of market share at uneconomic yields.

The 2x Dash-8-100s provide about 70-72 seats, which is multiplied by the number of frequencies operated. Even if you assume that they had both aircraft through the whole year (which they didn't), having achieved 40% of the market alone should not be a loss-making venture if 2 conditions are fulfilled: (i) fares to cover at least the costs, and (ii) maintaining a steady load-factor. If either of these are sacrificed just only to attain the greatest possible market share, it can't be a smart thing to do because over time they'd only lose more money despite carrying more passengers than anyone else.

In my posts earlier, I stated that I believed United was carrying more passengers than GMG, RBA, and even Biman at least over the last one year. But the question is at what cost were/are they doing so, and why. :)

So AI Express is still flying to DAC? I thought they wouldn't last a month after their nightmarish first flight!

From a different point of view, it makes more sense for AI Express (being a state-owned airline) to operate the flight than it does for anyone else: the idea could be to just take enough Bangladeshis to India (say 50-odd pax/flight on avg.) even if it means losing say USD 10,000 in doing so because these 50 people would end up spending way more than that in India for something or the other and therefore have an impact on India's forex inflow, which could be a reason important enough to substantiate operating the flight at a loss because from the state's point of view, it could be like losing 5 bucks off the left pocket and getting 20 odd on the right! :)

Originally Posted by iasif
In my posts earlier, I stated that I believed United was carrying more passengers than GMG, RBA, and even Biman at least over the last one year. But the question is at what cost were/are they doing so, and why.

Brand awareness perhaps! to make a name in the field and than go in for the Kill

Originally Posted by iasif
In my posts earlier, I stated that I believed United was carrying more passengers than GMG, RBA, and even Biman at least over the last one year. But the question is at what cost were/are they doing so, and why.

Brand awareness perhaps! to make a name in the field and than go in for the Kill

What would be that "kill"? If you mean cutting into Biman's (domestic) mark share, or taking it over enirely, that is just not going to happen unless BG relinquishes the domestic sector.

Brand awareness perhaps! to make a name in the field and than go in for the Kill

Hardly plausible. In airline business, brand-awareness is far more effectively created by offering a better quality of product/service than by providing fares too cheap to be commercially feasible. Look at Best Air, which, despite all the cheap stunts and fares to boot, is inches away from becoming extinct.

On the other hand, take the example of SQ which has remained to be one of the world's most profitable airlines not for being overtly competitive fare-wise, but rather for the outstanding quality of their product. The same goes for the completely different airline like WN, which while being cheap delivers an excellent value to its pax, but never by compromising on commercial feasibility.

What would be that "kill"? If you mean cutting into Biman's (domestic) mark share, or taking it over enirely, that is just not going to happen unless BG relinquishes the domestic sector.

BG has largely given up on the domestic sector. It needs to operate to CGP and ZYL to take care of the feeder traffic to/from its intl ops and not really for the point-to-point domestic travellers.

[QUOTE=skystar320;29881348]

You've missed my point. It's completely understandable if a startup airline like United loses BDT 39 million over a year's operation - a year through which fuel prices were outrageous, and fares couldn't possibly be hiked up enough. In that case, the captivity of 40% of the market is either untrue, or had been achieved at a loss resulting out of uneconomic yield (as discussed just a few days earlier here). Either way, that's disappointing - there's no flamboyancy in stating a figure that's not correct; and there's no point in achieving a degree of market share at uneconomic yields.

The 2x Dash-8-100s provide about 70-72 seats, which is multiplied by the number of frequencies operated. Even if you assume that they had both aircraft through the whole year (which they didn't), having achieved 40% of the market alone should not be a loss-making venture if 2 conditions are fulfilled: (i) fares to cover at least the costs, and (ii) maintaining a steady load-factor. If either of these are sacrificed just only to attain the greatest possible market share, it can't be a smart thing to do because over time they'd only lose more money despite carrying more passengers than anyone else.

In my posts earlier, I stated that I believed United was carrying more passengers than GMG, RBA, and even Biman at least over the last one year. But the question is at what cost were/are they doing so, and why. :)


Now you miss my point!

Originally Posted by iasif
In my posts earlier, I stated that I believed United was carrying more passengers than GMG, RBA, and even Biman at least over the last one year. But the question is at what cost were/are they doing so, and why.

Brand awareness perhaps! to make a name in the field and than go in for the Kill

akbar, you have hit the nail square on the head.... most airlines, especially start up's thrash the market with cheap fares to get 'their' brand known to exsist [contray to the belief of iasif] thus why they have gained say 40% of the domestic market and posted a loss.

You will see, if they manage to extend to international destinations that the domestic fares will see a slow increase in price as they feed onto the internatinoal destinations....

With the price of fuel and the competetive nature of the Bangladesh aviation market United should be comended for sticking around in a highly volity market.

Contray to iasif's believe not one company should break a profit in the aviation industry within the first's years operation as start up costs are too high!

akbar, you have hit the nail square on the head.... most airlines, especially start up's thrash the market with cheap fares to get 'their' brand known to exsist [contray to the belief of iasif] thus why they have gained say 40% of the domestic market and posted a loss.

You will see, if they manage to extend to international destinations that the domestic fares will see a slow increase in price as they feed onto the internatinoal destinations....

With the price of fuel and the competetive nature of the Bangladesh aviation market United should be comended for sticking around in a highly volity market.

Contray to iasif's believe not one company should break a profit in the aviation industry within the first's years operation as start up costs are too high!

I couldn't agree more, from what I have seen so far, United are doing a very professional job in Bangladesh with their limited resources in a very small market. After all air travel in domestic Baqngladesh is not the first option, considering more than half of the population still are below the proverty level. But from what it appears, that United has become a big hit with the small business travelers.

I hope they start their internation flights soon, and who knows, we might just have an airline out of Bangladesh to feel proud of!

The new year should bring more opportunites for everyone, especially the people from Bangladesh who wish to travel outside of the country....

Although it could be a combination of private airlines within Bangladesh or it could be other airlines from outside Bangaldesh.

iasif, please do not get me wrong your posts are awesome and definate gives a hindsight into operations in Bangaldesh especially considering I'm not there!.... but if anything can be taken away is to learn to think outside the box of probability.... This is something I have learned from operating within local law enforcement.

And you never know..... you guys may be blessed with my presence in Dhaka in and around Mayish time......

An as an idea maybe a skyscraper city - Bangladesh meet up??? Iasif is buying the first round?

The new year should bring more opportunites for everyone, especially the people from Bangladesh who wish to travel outside of the country....

Although it could be a combination of private airlines within Bangladesh or it could be other airlines from outside Bangaldesh.

iasif, please do not get me wrong your posts are awesome and definate gives a hindsight into operations in Bangaldesh especially considering I'm not there!.... but if anything can be taken away is to learn to think outside the box of probability.... This is something I have learned from operating within local law enforcement.

And you never know..... you guys may be blessed with my presence in Dhaka in and around Mayish time......

An as an idea maybe a skyscraper city - Bangladesh meet up??? Iasif is buying the first round?

The best thing about the expectedly matured people that we are is that we all 'agree to disagree'...which allows for the fascinating arguments and discussions that we share here. Let us continue to 'agree to disagree' and leave it to the test of time to prove our points right or wrong, which nonetheless would be an educating experience for us all. :)

And it'll be a pleasure to arrange an SSC get-together...and maybe our NRB-mates can join in through some sort of web conferencing too?

And it'll be a pleasure to arrange an SSC get-together...and maybe our NRB-mates can join in through some sort of web conferencing too?

name the date and place (web-conference ;) ) and will be there, mate!

Best,

Planemannnyc / Wasim

biman's new chairman is mr. abdul muyeed chowdhury. he was once biman's md as well. imran bhais blow at mahbub jamil just a week ago was very timely i guess.

name the date and place (web-conference ;) ) and will be there, mate!

Best,

Planemannnyc / Wasim

At the moment it might be around April / May however....... may be able to swing a flight on a RPT sector to some avid fans at Dhaka.

This is of course everything goes to plan, & I can get the authority! It would be awesome to meet you guys in person, but at the moment its paper based.....


Please remember, Iasif its documenented here somehwere that you will be buying the first round of beer? [mine is a whisky, or lemon & lime]

Please remember, Iasif its documenented here somehwere that you will be buying the first round of beer? [mine is a whisky, or lemon & lime]

Will make it a 'whisky sour'...bourbon+lemon & lime...one among my easy favourites!

Hope your fans propel you to DAC as planned! ;)

Hope your fans propel you to DAC as planned!

Now now, your making me go red? What fans.... at the end of the day we are all aviation nuts

Now now, your making me go red? What fans.... at the end of the day we are all aviation nuts

Yeah...and who says nuts can't pull legs of each other! :)

Silence is quiet......

Silence is quiet......

Yeah. Probably everyone is busy with a 'whisky sour'...bourbon+lemon & lime. Hick, and a bottle of ram, hick..... :cheers::cheers2::cheers1::laugh:

Alright, now to change the subject a tad bit, I saw in GMG's website that they have started to fly to Bangkok again since early December. Any news on how that is going?