http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1201/aerlingus.html


Surely this would be a monumental breah of competition rules? Also assuming Rynair took over Aer Lingus (unlikely) they are defacto taking on routes outside of Europe and to the States......

I would have also thought competition rules would be prohibitive, although as pointed out by RTE there have been plenty of other mergers and consolidations, so why not? Aer Lingus is small fry anyway, its not like they're planning to merge with BA.

I can see why Ryanair are desperate for this. The open skies agreement with the US opened up the transatlantic market, but the rate limiting step is getting berths at major airports, which Aer Lingus has, and Ryanair obviously covets.

Aer Lingus may be relatively small but it is a different sort of model to that of Ryanair (which is just like flying in a sardine can) - I have alot more respect for Aer Lingus then Ryanair. I would not want to see Ryanair's definition of customer service forced on Aer Lingus....I also find Micheal O'Leary's assertion Aer Lingus cannot remain independent as a sign of desperation for this link up. Yet he has failed again. They cannot buy Aer Lingus because 80 percent of your option to travel from Dublin or Belfast or wherever would effectively be with Ryanair......IMO we need the two models for travel not just one. Better to have competition.

I admit I do have respect for Ryanairs business model and we can be proud it is one of Europes largest airlines....it is just customer service I have an issue with. You get what you pay for I suppose. Pay peanuts.... get monkeys....As an Irish person I have always been proud of Aer Lingus and will continue to use them ahead of Ryanair.

P.S Micheal O'Leary says he wants 'one Irish airline group' to take on the world - id rather that not be Ryanair there Micheal!


Ryanair makes new, half-price bid for Aer Lingus

DUBLIN, Dec 1 (Reuters) - Ryanair revived its tense courtship of Irish rival Aer Lingus on Monday, bidding 750 million euros ($970 million) or just half of what it offered two years ago in an approach thwarted by European regulators.

The European Commission rejected Ryanair's 2006 offer on the grounds it would create a near-monopoly in European flights out of Dublin.

This time, analysts believe a recent spate of airline mergers means the chances of success are greater, even if a takeover would still prove highly contentious in Ireland. Ryanair, which already owns 29.82 percent of Aer Lingus, said the all-cash offer at 1.40 euros per share represented a 28 percent premium over the average closing price for Aer Lingus shares in the 30 days to Nov. 28, 2008.

Aer Lingus, which strongly opposed the last approach from its neighbour at Dublin Airport, said shareholders should take no action pending further announcements by the company.

The European Commission declined to comment.

By 1345 GMT, in London, shares in Aer Lingus were trading 14.3 percent higher at 1.28 euros, below a session high of 1.36 euros. Ryanair's shares traded 2 percent lower at 2.87 euros, while the wider Irish market was 0.5 percent higher.

Ryanair Chief Executive Michael O'Leary said the economic and regulatory environment had changed markedly since Ryanair's last move on Aer Lingus was blocked by regulators.

"It (Aer Lingus) is increasingly viewed as a small, peripheral airline that has been bypassed by EU consolidation," he told broadcaster CNBC.

The takeover would create a fourth major European airline group after the creation of Air France-KLM, Lufthansa's buy of Swiss and British Airways' planned tie-up with Iberia, Ryanair said.

FIFTY PERCENT CHANCE

For its latest bid to succeed, Ryanair would also have to overcome opposition from the Irish government and Aer Lingus employees, who respectively own 25 and 14 percent in the airline and rejected Ryanair's last offer.

Transport Minister Noel Dempsey said he would evaluate the offer once Aer Lingus's board had received a formal bid, adding that the government had been holding a "strategic" stake in Aer Lingus partly to prevent hostile bids.

"There is no restriction ... shares can be bought and sold," Dempsey added.

O'Leary said he believed Aer Lingus staff would be more receptive this time given recent job losses at the airline. But the IMPACT union representing Aer Lingus cabin crew and pilots said it had major concerns over jobs prospects and competition.

"It is unlikely on this occasion that the response from Aer Lingus staff would be any different," IMPACT said.

Ryanair said that it would double the size of Aer Lingus's short-haul fleet to 66 over the next five years, creating 1,000 new jobs at the former state airline, which it would keep as a separate brand.

Trade union SIPTU described the offer as "mischief making" by an airline intent on creating a monopoly but analysts at Numis Securities said they believed recent mergers in the sector may have changed the regulatory environment in Ryanair's favour.

"The timing of the bid is interesting given the risk to profitability as recession risks strengthen and the consumer environment deteriorated rapidly in both Ireland and the UK," Numis said in a note.

Analysts at RBS said they believed Ryanair's latest approach would be rejected by Aer Lingus management and that other stakeholders minded to accept would want more money but that it still stood a "notably higher chance of success".

"At this stage we would give the bid 50 percent chance of succeeding -- well up on last time," RBS said.

Ryanair's lower costs and bigger cash reserves have allowed it to cut fares and grow capacity as rivals struggle to cope with recession and volatile fuel prices. Aer Lingus has already announced plans to cut costs, which are up to twice Ryanair's per seat, to stem losses and safeguard its independence.

80% of your option to travel from Dublin would be with Ryanair? Really? It would be nowhere near that in Belfast. Ryanair uses the City, and Aer Lingus International, though Easyjet, BMI and Flybe I'm sure would easily amount to more than 20%. The transatlantic flights are carried by Continental.

As an Irish person, I'll just use whatever airline gives me the best deal. Air travel is such a pain in the ass no matter who you use.

80% of your option to travel from Dublin would be with Ryanair? Really? It would be nowhere near that in Belfast. Ryanair uses the City, and Aer Lingus International, though Easyjet, BMI and Flybe I'm sure would easily amount to more than 20%. The transatlantic flights are carried by Continental.

As an Irish person, I'll just use whatever airline gives me the best deal. Air travel is such a pain in the ass no matter who you use.


Yeah but Dublin Airport is alot bigger then the two Belfast airports put together with two major airlines - Ryanair and Aer Lingus. BMI, Continental, UA etc operate out of DUB too but none are big enough to compete. Ryanair and Aer Lingus have their base there. Between them they monopolise travel. Belfast has no major base for any airline.

this linkup will happen down the line regardless of what any of us think of ryanair.

flying ryanair is a breath of freshair compared to using dublin airport :bash:

Its because Dublin is 10 times the size of the Belfast airports combined, I'm surprised 80% of its flights are carried by the two airlines mentioned. I would have expected such a monopolisation in a smaller airport such as City or International that offers much less routes.

Yes I surprised about your feelings about Ryanair. It really has revolutionised travel in Europe. Its a homegrown Irish company that really is a big player on the international scene.

Its because Dublin is 10 times the size of the Belfast airports combined, I'm surprised 80% of its flights are carried by the two airlines mentioned. I would have expected such a monopolisatiois in in a smaller airport such as City or International that offers much less routes.

When you have two airlines with major bases at single airport their drive is to monopolise air travel to and from that airport. Size does not really matter. They will inevitably just squeeze the competition out. Where Aer Lingus does have an automatic advantage over Ryanair is it's routes to the States - obviously Ryanair does not fly there (yet) - that's not to say of course that Aer Lingus and Ryanair are not competitive to European destinations - they are. Any airline going up against the likes of Ryanair has to be very competitive to survive. Ryanair forced much needed streamlining at Aer Lingus and huge cuts in fares over 15 years.

I dont believe this deal will ever go ahead tbh. MOL is just sabre rattling as usual. We need meaningful competition at Irish airports - be that Belfast, Shannon wherever. I am more then happy to see Ryanair and Aer Lingus slug it out because that means cheaper fares for you and me.

I'd put a tenner on the merger happening eventually. The competition isn't between Ryanair and Aer Lingus, its against BA, Air France etc. It will become a survival issue.

If it came to it (which I dont believe it will) then, of course, preferably id want a merger of Irish companies...MOL has a point there....how much inroads have BA or Air France made into the Irish market? Ryanair and Aer Lingus dominate the market. The former for cheaper fares - the latter for it's good name and sense of attachment people have always had for it...similar to BA at London Heathrow -very difficult for any company from outside to gain large market share in those circumstances. It does not really matter how big they are.

I am coming over to Ireland on december the 19th. Im going to fly with Ryanair..

Ryanair can piss off to be honest. I like Aer Lingus as it is and have always provided a very good service to me. Since they came to Belfast I only use them to fly to London. Why the hell would I want to fly in a shitty third-world styled Ryanair plane??

I also hear that should Ryanair take over they'd remove the Belfast-Heathrow route...well thankfully that's not going to happen.

Why the hell would I want to fly in a shitty third-world styled Ryanair plane??

.

+1 It would be embarrasing more then anything else. What about business class travellers too? Who would cater for them? They dont want to fly in a Ryanair sardine can.....

I thought they'd only re-state the Shannon route. Why, God only knows.

I was watching MOL tonight on the Late Late. He is persuasive. I have my doubts but apparently under Ryanair Aer Lingus will keep its brand, its board of management etc.........He wants to create a super Irish airline under Irish ownership headquartered in Dublin....one that will "take on the world".....I see his point. Undoubtedly a merger would lead to one of the worlds great airlines however im concerned because of service with Ryanair - What I want to know is will the standard be maintained at Aer Lingus?


MOL's logic is we may aswell have an airline that "will take on the world" rather then two seperate entities.....what do you think?

Not sure about taking on the world, but as a means to survive yes. Have to say I find his talk about the heathrow routes slightly worrying. He seems to want to take the Belfast slots and re-instate Shannon as a political bargaining chip.

Now you're going to start accusing me of being paranoid, but that makes no sense when considering the economic prosperity of the 'Island'. This coupled with FF's call to patriotism by boycotting shopping in the North, and we seem to have an emerging ultra-partitionist attitude in the South were-by anything that happens in the North is at the expense of the South. I hope I'm wrong, but if true its quite a sad development.

I would'nt take it personally pb, every country in the world want the (exports - imports) portion of the equation to balance in positive territory, this is emphasised during a recession. Its not anti-north sentiment.

Have to say he was very persuasive on the late late last night. I think one has to credit the man with being a businessman of incredible acumen, but whether or not a merger would benefit Irish consumers? I'm not sure! Probably more inclined to think it wouldn't be.
He seemed to be adament that both companies would work under different management and be in competition with each other in the Irish market. This I guess would be incentified for the staff by the prospect of getting bonuses for reaching targets and such, and by creating an atmosphere of rivalry between the two in business terms! He must be hopeful that his staff would be as driven by goals as he is, rather than just treating work as a day at the office.
PB, I'd imagine the Belfast-Heathrow routes would be safe for profits sake. My main concern with a ryanair takeover is that Irish jobs would be under threat. It seems that the airline hires cheaper staff from the uk and europe whenever I fly with them.

BBC

Aer Lingus cool on Ryanair offer

A previous Ryanair move was rejected on EU competition grounds
Shareholders in Irish flag carrier Aer Lingus have shown little desire for a takeover by budget rival Ryanair,

Last month Aer Lingus bosses rejected a hostile 748m euro (£683m; $1bn) takeover bid from the low-cost airline.

But Ryanair, which already owns 29.82% of Aer Lingus, asked other Aer Lingus shareholders to accept the deal.

Ryanair says it now has had acceptances totalling just 29.83% of Aer Lingus shares, including its own stake. Its offer has been extended for five weeks.

"The offer has been extended and will remain open for acceptance until 1pm Dublin time on 13 February, 2009," Ryanair said in a statement.

Aer Lingus management had urged shareholders not to back the takeover when it was launched ahead of Christmas, saying that it contained "nothing new".

And the airline's workers, which control a 14% stake, have worries over job prospects, despite assurances from Ryanair.

Ryanair has offered 1.40 euros a share for the former state airline, just half the price of a previous offer in 2006 which was blocked by the EU on competition grounds.

This time Ryanair says it plans to operate both airlines as separate companies with distinctive brands.

The 2006 offer was strongly opposed by major Aer Lingus shareholders, including the Irish government, company employees, pilots and their pension fund.


Looks like O'Leary faces another rejection^^

Are people really so patriotic over Ryanair. For all that it has Irish origins and is Irish owned/managed, it really is only a success because of British operations due to EU Open Skies so unlike Aer Lingus I wouldn't have though many Irish folk would have sentimental feelings and loyalty towards a de facto London airline.

I'm not trying to be snide here but just pointing out a fact and curious really. It's not solely British, as it's made a lot of money across Europe, but a very small percentage involves Ireland - do you guys think this is why there is some nonchalance towards them?

Ireland is a tiny market, most companies of reasonable size will expand to europe, that is the nature of the EU. As for not being irish because it does comparatively less business here, doesnt stand up. Like you said Irish origins, owned, managed... what other criteria were you looking for? :P

Its a success because of smart management, open skies has no relevance to them, it is a transatlantic agreement. And people dislike them because they're assholes :D but still secretly love them for their prices.

Are people really so patriotic over Ryanair. For all that it has Irish origins and is Irish owned/managed, it really is only a success because of British operations due to EU Open Skies so unlike Aer Lingus I wouldn't have though many Irish folk would have sentimental feelings and loyalty towards a de facto London airline.

I'm not trying to be snide here but just pointing out a fact and curious really. It's not solely British, as it's made a lot of money across Europe, but a very small percentage involves Ireland - do you guys think this is why there is some nonchalance towards them?


It is an Irish company, headquartered in Dublin Airport, not any British Airport as you seem to suggest or any other European Airport for that matter, run by Irish people, listed on the Dublin Stock Exchange and regulated by the Irish Aviation Authority. Mostly you should be aboe to tell by the Harp and Irish tricolour on the fuselage......People are as proud of Ryanair's success, afterall they did revolutionise Air Travel in Europe and played a huge part in opening it up to all levels of society, as they are of Aer Lingus. People differentiate between Ryanair's attitude to passenger sevice and that of Aer Lingus. They don't want MOL's style on transatlantic routes. That is the reason.

The Republic of Ireland needs the UK to survive or would be doomed!!!

We need every large economy to survive - that goes without saying. The UK is an important market for us as is the US but horizons are far broader now then they were 30 years ago and so it is with our growing links with the larger emerging markets which will be far more important to us going forward.

Nice to see you stirring again Delta. You want an even bigger spoon?



I am rather happy Ryanair has been rejected again. Flew them once and they werer utterly shit, dread to think what image Ireland would have with Ryanair are pretty much it sole carrier.

I applaud their success, but no thanks....rather happy with Aer Lingus as is.

Thanks for the comments. I was just wondering if the same fervour was felt as for a traditional national carrier - as is missing for Easyjet/BMI when compared to BA.

Easyjet is similar, British but a lot of money made outside of the UK too. I prefer it personally as it flies to real airports - but Ryanair certainly has its niche and one day when I can afford my farmhouse in the middle of nowhere in France, I'll be very grateful for them. And I actually quite like MOL, he's obviously a bit of a dick but certainly a character with never a dull moment...

Just one thing to say to O'Leary - FAIL! (again)

Government rejects Ryanair bid
Thursday, 22 January 2009 17:34
The Government has announced it will not to accept the Ryanair offer of €1.40 per share for its shareholding in Aer Lingus.

It said the decision was taken because the cash offer 'greatly undervalues Aer Lingus' and that a merger would have negatively affected competition in the market.

Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey said that the competition was a major consideration in the rejection.

He said that 'because we live on an island, Irish consumers depend very heavily on air transport. A monopoly in this area would not be in the best interests of Irish consumers.'

Elsewhere, Aer Lingus announced it was extending its relationship with United Airlines on some long-haul services between Europe and the US.

It also said it is holding out the prospect of forming a new joint venture company with the US airline

The two airlines will launch a daily service between Washington and Madrid from March 2010.

Additional routes may be made available from next year for services to begin in Summer 2011.

Aer Lingus said that further expansion and development of the partnership's activities will be jointly assessed and agreed by the partners and may develop into a 'broader and deeper' joint venture, in which Aer Lingus would have a controlling interest.

The High Court has begun hearing proceedings taken by Ryanair over what it says is an alleged 'gagging' order on a TV debate about the budget airline's takeover proposals for Aer Lingus.

It followed agreement over how sensitive commercial information would be dealt with during the proceedings.

Ryanair had challenged a direction from the Irish Takeover Panel (ITP), the State body responsible for monitoring and supervising takeovers, that it could not take part in a Prime Time debate about its hostile takeover bid of Aer Lingus.


http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0122/aerlingus.html