State agency hopes new software saves road salt
25 November 2008

VINCENNES, Ind. (AP) - High road salt prices have prompted state highway crews to turn to a new software program to stretch salt supplies further and save the state hundreds of thousands of dollars.

The software pairs real-time weather and road condition data with a winter storm's snowfall potential to calculate how much road salt is needed to combat slick conditions on a particular section of roadway.

The Indiana Department of Transportation hopes it can help the agency save hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of salt by allowing more accurate determinations of when trucks need to be sent out to treat roads.

"This will actually allow us to tailor the amount of salt we put on the road to the actual storm itself. It will help us know when to get out and when to go home," Andrew Carter, an INDOT maintenance field engineer, told the Vincennes Sun-Commercial.

The program uses real-time weather information, the 24-hour forecast as well as data from outdoor sensors that track pavement temperature, air temperature, the rate of snow accumulation, humidity and wind speed.

INDOT drivers can also input into the system descriptions of road conditions as they move along a particular roadway plowing snow and spreading salt.

All of the information loaded into the program can be accessed by INDOT managers via the Internet. It's broken down hourly and constantly updated for the most accurate forecasts.

Carter said the goal is to save INDOT one to two loads -- at about seven tons per load -- of salt per season, or about $500,000.

He said all INDOT subdistricts are using the program this year. The software was tested in the Columbus and Monticello subdistricts before it was rolled out across the state. Carter said 14 states now use it.

Cher Goodwin, an INDOT spokeswoman, said that while many U.S. communities are scrambling to find salt this year, the state highway department has plenty of salt in storage. She said the price of road salt has risen from about $46 per ton last year to $52 a ton this year.

"We had more ice-based storms last year, which means we had to use more salt," she said.

We do salt them often, to prevent the wet road deck from freezing. Unfortunately they don't salt the bike path to my school, which is a real pain in the ass :evil: :devil: :( :ohno: :D

This is a photo i'd taken while in the UK last week

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/1112/dscf0566sx9.th.jpg (http://img367.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0566sx9.jpg)

Salt for toll motorways is stored in such "chapels":

http://www.autostrada-a2.pl/upload/pictures/0000632.jpg

www.autostrada-a2.pl

They do that too in the Netherlands, they really put enourmous amounts of salt on every roadways including residential streets and cycle lanes if it is forecast to freeze just below zero. A tad too much in my opinion, because people don't know how to drive in real icy conditions anymore. However, your car is dirtier than dirty after driving on mega-salted roads. I once could barely look through my windshield anymore because I ran out of that stuff you spray on your window.

Maybe there should be used some kind of granulate, salt is not good for car either

Salting Your Highways in the Winter?
In Greece yes, it does... actually when the snow is huge :)

In Canada I've seen them spread some glycol instead of salt on the 403 highway during winter. An expensive solution, but a lot better for cars and environment.

In Estonia they also use lots and lots of salt, which is not good, IMO, because then you end up with having a kind of a dirty snow soup, which is really unpleasant.

Greyish pulp... :D

Here it's below freezing for weeks at a time. Cold weather alone is not justification for salt. They save that for when it snows.

Interestingly enough Ankeny, Iowa used garlic salt on their roads this winter. Check it out:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-ia-garlicroadsalt,0,1742019.story

Salt salt salt. use it often here. Although London (ontario) uses some brine solution instead.

I think they should stick to plows only if heavy snowfall is falling, and then salt when the storm is over. Honestly, the amount of salt put on the roads is ridiculous around here. Driving on snow-covered roads is a little more slippery, but for pete's sake, putting salt down when it is covered up and rendered useless within 30 minutes in heavy snow, really isn't worth it.

Iroquois County continues to avoid salt on its roads
8 December 2008

WATSEKA, Ill. (AP) - A shortage of road salt and its subsequent high price this year is leading many Illinois communities and counties to cut back on their road-salting activities as winter moves in.

But that's not the case in Iroquois County. The county highway department there has been on a salt-free diet for years.

County Engineer Joel Moore says Iroquois doesn't use salt on its 336 miles of county roads, which not only saves a lot of money, but preserves its bridges and roads.

Instead of salt, the county uses something called ice sand, which is a little more angular than ordinary sand and increases traction.

Moore says the county is also looking into using cinders or slag from steel manufacturing.

Well, when this happens, salters and sanders and plows become a necessity:

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9354/23208136036624e24209ohp4.jpg

Instead of using rock salt, a brine solution may be sprayed on the roads. This is much more effective and less damaging to the roads, but is much more expensive.

There are quite a few things to say about salt and the use of it here in Norway. First, considerable sections of highway are unsuitable for salt (for instance the rv 3), simply because the temperature gets too low. Below approx -10 centigrade, even salted roads will freeze, and you're left with perfect contitions for skaters... This is also a concern in other areas, if the temperature drops enough. Second, the environment. Third, many people consider "white" winter roads safer than "black": drivers tend to be more careful when faced with something even the biggest idiots understand to be different from summer conditions. Four, cars exposed to salt rust. Nonetheless, salted roads are pretty common, particularly E routes and main roads around the cities.

Salt won't help you much in those conditions. As Elvis77 says, salt will only work at a few degrees below freezing. Quite interesting in fact, in northern Sweden, where salt becomes unnecessary, cars don't have as much rust damage as cars here in Stockholm.

some bridges, i don't know by name but i sure know that i heard of it, does have heating against freezin' off.

Salt won't help you much in those conditions. As Elvis77 says, salt will only work at a few degrees below freezing. Quite interesting in fact, in northern Sweden, where salt becomes unnecessary, cars don't have as much rust damage as cars here in Stockholm.

maybe that's also because the moisture in the air is more often frozen, so the rusting process can't be done. and ofcourse, much more rain in stockholm.

Salt won't help you much in those conditions. As Elvis77 says, salt will only work at a few degrees below freezing. Quite interesting in fact, in northern Sweden, where salt becomes unnecessary, cars don't have as much rust damage as cars here in Stockholm.

Excactly the same story in Norway. Salted roads eat cars.

Another rather interesting fact is that fewer people are killed or seriously injured in the wintertime than in the summer, even though you have a higher accident rate.

^ Yes, I had to hose down the bottom of my car once warmer weather arrived to clear out the salt stuck underneath.

In colder climates, it is often too cold for salt to melt the snow/ice - but not often around here... a mix of salt and sand is plenty in southwest virginia. (not that it's all that useful when it hasn't snowed more than 2 inches this winter - and that was once in mid-november)

We call it gritting in the UK... a mixture of salt and grit. And yes it tends to happen a few times every year.

someone should invent the heated road

someone should invent the heated road

That idea exists for a long time, but it's very expensive and prone to mass maintenance. No self-respecting road authority would construct that on a large scale.

Imagine running hot water ducts underneath the surface of the road! Would asphalt or concrete be heatable like that?

there are some test underway with piezoelectronics; generating electricity by utilizing the pressure between the layers of asphalt

that electricity could be used to heat the road from underneath the same way elecricity is used to heat the back window in the car..

there are some test underway with piezoelectronics; generating electricity by utilizing the pressure between the layers of asphalt

that electricity could be used to heat the road from underneath the same way elecricity is used to heat the back window in the car..

I don´t think this is possible and that would still be a waste of energy, when it´s too cold and nothing helps, jsut don´t drive! It´s the silliest idea to want roads to be heated, OMG, there are millions kilometres of roads and they all should be heated, even if only nationalroads and motorways are heated, it would still be a waste of energy.

That idea exists for a long time, but it's very expensive and prone to mass maintenance. No self-respecting road authority would construct that on a large scale.

The new I-35W bridge over the Mississippi is heated, I believe. It is more common than you think.

Anyways, I don't believe in salting/sanding/etc - driving on unsalted roads is safer imo, because the road is all white; you know what to expect, unlike salt which is unevenly distributed and often has patches of black ice.

But bridges are far more dangerous when icy compared to the normal road on land. That's why I often see bridge ice warning signs.

For a seasoned "white road" driver as myself (and a considerable number of other snowy country drivers), this isn't too much of a problem. My car is fitted with winter tires, my head with an understanding of what less friction means. Driving in proper winter conditions isn't too difficult, but you need to realise what the challenges are - on or off salted highways. The driver is the responsible party, and just as no sane driver would go 150+ kph on a motorway in a rainstorm or if it's seriously foggy, even 80 might be excessive in heavy snow.

I don´t think this is possible and that would still be a waste of energy, when it´s too cold and nothing helps, jsut don´t drive

Actually there are quite a few bridges around the world, that are heated. And heated pavements are far from unknown. Actually it is even cheaper in some cases to heat pavement than to clean it in standard ways.

Example:
http://www.tfhrc.gov/pubrds/fall94/p94au5.htm

I don´t think this is possible and that would still be a waste of energy, when it´s too cold and nothing helps, jsut don´t drive! It´s the silliest idea to want roads to be heated, OMG, there are millions kilometres of roads and they all should be heated, even if only nationalroads and motorways are heated, it would still be a waste of energy.

I suppose heating the car is a waste of energy too, since you can just wear a sweater

think of all the baby seals you could save by wearing a sweater in the car, instead of turning on the heater

as a matter of fact, stop scientific progress in and of itself :bash:

Geez, I've driven a car without heating in around-zero temps, it's NOT funny, nor comfortable. Car heating uses almost no extra energy, it draws hot air passing thorugh a pipe near the engine, which for obvious reasons are always hot.

For those who bash AC, I'd reccomend rush hour in Tucson, AZ, USA or Mobile, AL, USA in the summer to feel how it likes.

This system is used in Spain in a new highway (A-23):

gdKFOVMfm74

So in short, they spray salted water on the bridge's road surface when needed. Nice system, may be a bit surprising for the drivers who don't know the system (might cause accidents), but seeing people will most likely drive slower anyway when this system needs to be deployed, that would be quite acceptable.

Greetings,
Glodenox

Here in northern Minnesota they use a heavy salt mixture when the temperature is between about 10-32˚F, but below that they use mostly sand.

Salt doesn't melt the road surface below that temperature and so only sand will help give you traction on icy roads. It's the worst if we get big snows during early winter because the sun angle is low enough that it doesn't really melt the snow on the road.

By late winter the sun is strong enough to melt the roads off even in sub-zero (fahrenheit) temperatures.

I much prefer sand anyway. The salt really rusts your car out and it's probably not gonna do anything anyway when our average high in January is a balmy 16˚F. (-8˚C)