PITTSBURGH - Consol Energy Center (19,000) [Archive]

nomarandlee

May 8th, 2009, 09:09 PM

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09105/962838-61.stm

Penguin hockey fans will sit in lap of luxury in new Consol Energy Center

Officials unveil models of new suites

Wednesday, April 15, 2009
By Mark Belko, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Hockey nights in Pittsburgh might never be the same.

Not when you can sink your fanny into a cushy leather seat, drink from a fully stocked refrigerator, watch replays on a flat-screen TV, and have access to a concierge.

They are just some of the amenities that await lucky fans -- well, mainly corporations -- who have the financial heft to pluck down $115,000 to $150,000 a year for one of 66 suites that will be available in the Penguins' new home.

For those on more meager budgets, the Consol Energy Center still will offer more comfort than Mellon Arena, with padded seating, more leg room and spacious open concourses from which fans can watch the action even while waiting in line for a hot dog.

"The seats in this arena will be the most comfortable in sports," said Penguins President David Morehouse.

Today, about a year and a half before the new arena will open, the Penguins will begin making their sales pitch to suite, club and season ticket-holders from a marketing center at One Chatham Center, where one can visit a replica of a new suite, view a model of the Consol Energy Center, and plop down in the leather seats.

Suite or no suite, the team is expecting the 18,087 seats in the new arena -- 1,147 more than in Mellon -- to go fast...............

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09113/964963-28.stm

Penguins seeking top rating as greenest sports venue in U.S.

Thursday, April 23, 2009
By Mark Belko, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Pittsburgh's new arena not only will be the newest in the National Hockey League when it opens in 2010 but the greenest in sports.

On Earth Day, the Penguins and the city-Allegheny County Sports & Exhibition Authority announced that they will seek a LEED Gold certification for the $321 million complex, which is being built adjacent to Mellon Arena.

The LEED Gold rating not only would be the first for any arena in the National Hockey League but also the first for any major sports venue in the country, according to the U.S. Green Building Council, the developer of the Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design system.

Gold is the second-highest of the four possible certifications under LEED. In that respect, the Consol Energy Center would outdo two other new sports venues -- the $1.5 billion Yankee Stadium and the $850 million home of the New York Mets, neither of which achieved any level of LEED certification.............

..

hoosier

May 10th, 2009, 08:40 AM

So is this arena near the current one? I can tell from the photos that it is near DT Pittsburgh.

BoulderGrad

May 11th, 2009, 04:15 AM

It's just about across the street, right?

massp88

May 11th, 2009, 07:57 PM

Are there any high quality, or any other rendering for the inside of the arena?

eMKay

May 28th, 2009, 12:36 AM

KingmanIII

May 28th, 2009, 02:15 AM

Just 66 suites? Jeez, I would have expected more, Buffalo has 80, and doesn't have Pittsburgh's wealth. Very nice location though, and they are way overdue for a new arena. They definitely didn't try and break any molds with this one though.

Many stadiums and arenas built too many suites, and now, in the current economic downturn, are having a hard time selling them.

66 is just right, IMO.

Jim856796

May 28th, 2009, 11:35 AM

I don't want to get off topic, but what is the average number of luxury boxes in an indoor arena?

www.sercan.de

May 28th, 2009, 01:10 PM

itom 987

December 30th, 2009, 01:17 AM

Any updates on this arena?

MegasAlexandros

December 30th, 2009, 06:09 AM

^^ There sure are. And if you use something called Google, you can find them too! :cheers:

massp88

December 30th, 2009, 10:31 PM

Any updates on this arena?

It does not look like anyone has posted more pics.

But I just checked the Penguins' website and they finally have some renders of what the inside will look like. Not too bad, one row of suites and what appears to be a row of press boxes, or larger party suites.

http://penshead.com/tag/consol-energy-center/

Go there and they have a bunch of pictures from the inside. They are making good progress on pouring the concourse and seating bowl concrete.

Agent Zeke

March 5th, 2010, 02:12 AM

A few new pictures from March 4th

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/24265_384452448764_13732078764_5073.jpg
The Penguins locker room...

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/24265_384452433764_13732078764_5073.jpg
Seats are finally starting to be installed in the upper bowl after cleaning

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/24265_384452463764_13732078764_5073.jpg
An expanded view.

Agent Zeke

March 5th, 2010, 08:40 AM

A few more interior images

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC1.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC2.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC3.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC8.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC6.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC4.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC5.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC7.jpg

en1044

March 5th, 2010, 10:10 AM

did they in crease the capacity?

Agent Zeke

March 5th, 2010, 04:49 PM

did they in crease the capacity?

No, no increases. It is still set at 18,087 seated for hockey and around 19,000 for basketball. Although I'm not sure if they will do any standing-room only like they have at the Mellon now, it's doubtful.

nomarandlee

March 5th, 2010, 08:06 PM

Looking good, I like the fact that it attempts to bring some natural light in. It seems that more new arenas are trying to bring in this aspect.

massp88

March 5th, 2010, 08:27 PM

Looks like those suites are massive in terms of height and take up a lot of space.

Agent Zeke

March 5th, 2010, 10:00 PM

Looks like those suites are massive in terms of height and take up a lot of space.

Yes. That was a concern from more than a few fans when the design was released, because it will make the upper bowl seats seem very far away from the ice. I personally don't see a problem because at the Mellon, the E and F-sections are up higher but you can see the entire ice well.

Agent Zeke

March 5th, 2010, 10:20 PM

Here are a few slightly older images from the exterior. But the glass and brickwork is essentially complete.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/Consol-Energy-Ctr_1-23-10g.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/Consol-Energy-Ctr_1-23-10h.jpg
-Here is the view of the arena, as seen from the Igloo parking lots.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/Consol-Energy-Ctr_1-23-10.jpg
-The "front" of the arena and main gate, along with the Church of the Epiphany.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/Consol-Energy-Ctr_1-23-10d.jpg
-The lower corner along 5th Avenue, where the ticket boxes will be located.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/Consol-Energy-Ctr_1-23-10b.jpg
-From 5th Avenue, the new 6-story parking garage is on the right side. Several walkways connect the garage with the arena.

The arena is very much on schedule, and should open in September 2010. From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

Consol Energy Center on time, budget for September opening

The Consol Energy Center is on pace for an early September opening.

Penguins CEO Ken Sawyer said today the new arena should be "substantially complete" by Aug. 1. Barring unforeseen delays, he expects the opening event, probably a concert, to take place in early September in advance of the hockey season.

During a media tour of the $321 million building, Mr. Sawyer said the arena currently is about three-quarters complete. The piping and concrete for the ice surface have been installed. The lower and upper bowls and suite levels are in place, and the concourses and players' locker room, with a distinctive horseshoe-shaped locker area, are rounding into form.

Mr. Sawyer said crews will begin installing seats within the next month and start work assembling a massive state-of-the-art high definition scoreboard.

"The next six months you really will see it coming together," Mr. Sawyer said.

The team also plans to send notices to 14,000 season ticket holders before the end of March showing the location of their seats at the Consol Energy Center.

"Their anxiety is very high," Mr. Sawyer said. "They want to know where they will be."

Consol Energy Center will hold 18,087 fans. There's already a waiting list of 7,500 people for season tickets and all 66 suites are sold out well advance of the arena's opening.

Mr. Sawyer said the Penguins' new home is "right on" its $321 million budget. It also will be really green -- the team is shooting for a Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design Gold certification for the building.

Agent Zeke

March 5th, 2010, 10:26 PM

The previously mentioned HD scoreboard, will be provided by Mitsubishi Electric and should arrive later this month.

Pittsburgh's Consol Energy Center to Feature High-Definition Diamond Vision System

When the Consol Energy Center, new home of the National Hockey League Stanley Cup Champion Pittsburgh Penguins, opens for the 2010 NHL season, it will feature one of the most advanced and sophisticated video display super-systems ever produced for the arena market.

Created by Mitsubishi Electric’s Diamond Vision Systems, the fully integrated scoring and video display installation will include more than 15 LED displays and feature four high-definition, center-hung video displays that use Mitsubishi Electric’s high-contrast 6mm black package LED technology.

“From day one, our goal has been to include state-of-the-art technology in Consol Energy Center,” said Travis Williams, senior vice president, business affairs and general counsel for the Pittsburgh Penguins. “When it came time to make our decision on the center-hung scoreboard and other video display products for the new arena, the clear choice was Diamond Vision. Mitsubishi Electric is the industry leader and we are excited about the opportunity to present these cutting-edge products to our fans.”

Mitsubishi Electric’s black package 6mm LED system provides a level of contrast and vivid image quality not otherwise possible on a high-density indoor LED display system. This new technology allows fans to view stunning HD imagery on the highest quality display system in the industry.

“When we introduced this technology to the arena market at the Air Canada Centre, we knew it would be a hit and demonstrate once again that Mitsubishi Electric is always on the leading edge of LED technology,” said Todd Stih, national sales manager.

In addition to the high-definition 6mm center-hung displays, Consol Energy Center will include the industry’s first installation of Mitsubishi Electric’s 4mm Resolia video display. The Resolia system is a single piece, ultra-thin, wall mountable 4mm LED display system intended for up-close viewing and ideal for digital signage applications.

Other highlights include more than 2,000 linear feet (two 360-degree displays) of Diamond Vision Easy Service® 20mm ribbon boards. Mitsubishi Electric’s advanced ribbon board design utilizes 3-in-1 surface mount LEDs for exceptional viewing angles, improved sight lines and ease of service. This ribbon board system produces no audible noise and ensures that the nearby premium suite and club level seating areas are not disturbed by the sound of ventilation fans typically used in other ribbon board systems.

ANC Sports’ dynamic, patent-pending VisionSOFT™ will drive the Diamond Vision super-system, delivering integrated scoring, statistics, event animations and sponsor graphics throughout the arena bowl. Using this unique 3D interface, the operator will be able to preview, trigger and instantaneously synchronize captivating visuals across the display system at the click of a single button

BoulderGrad

March 6th, 2010, 09:56 AM

Agent Zeke

March 6th, 2010, 05:26 PM

So as far as outdated arenas go, this will take care of the Igloo. What other ones are left in the NHL that need replacing?

-MSG is getting a full renovation
-Nassau Veterans needs to go...
-The Joe could maybe use some TLC, but perhaps not replacement
-The Saddledome is getting up there
-Rexall place needs to be burned to the ground

Any other ones? Most others in the league are from the mid to late 90's and seem to be in pretty good shape and still have all the modern bells and whistles a team requires.

I think you hit it right on the head. I don't see MSG or JLA being replaced any time soon, probably just renovated. So really the only two in desperate need of help are the Isles and Oilers.

Hopefully the Lighthouse Project is approved and the Isles get a new arena. I don't really know the situation in Edmonton necessarily or if they plan to build a new arena any time in the near future. That team isn't doing much of anything right lately so who knows.

Dexter Morgan

March 6th, 2010, 07:49 PM

Nassau Coliseum is probably the worst arena in the NHL, but that Lighthouse project is not going to happen. No chance. Islanders should move to Brooklyn, and share the Barclays Center with the Nets.

nomarandlee

March 6th, 2010, 07:53 PM

So as far as outdated arenas go, this will take care of the Igloo. What other ones are left in the NHL that need replacing?

-MSG is getting a full renovation
-.

It is? Fill me in.

en1044

March 6th, 2010, 11:16 PM

It is? Fill me in.

I thought most people knew about it.

http://msg.com/renovation/

BoulderGrad

March 7th, 2010, 01:59 AM

I thought most people knew about it.

http://msg.com/renovation/

Looks like they have some pretty awesome plans for it.

BoulderGrad

March 7th, 2010, 02:16 AM

I think you hit it right on the head. I don't see MSG or JLA being replaced any time soon, probably just renovated. So really the only two in desperate need of help are the Isles and Oilers.

Hopefully the Lighthouse Project is approved and the Isles get a new arena. I don't really know the situation in Edmonton necessarily or if they plan to build a new arena any time in the near future. That team isn't doing much of anything right lately so who knows.

Oilers are apparently working on it:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=50868673&postcount=1370

But I worry that the Lighthouse project will evaporate soon.

A few people mentioned the idea of the Isles moving to the Barclays center, but as things stand now, it probably won't happen. First the Rangers have to drop their territorial restrictions, then the arena needs to be redesigned to accommodate hockey, then the financial terms have to be hashed out to make it worthwhile for the Islanders.

That being said, I think it would still be cool to see them in Brooklyn. But I think it would also be cooler to see them in a brand new Seattle Center arena too :D.

BoulderGrad

March 7th, 2010, 02:19 AM

before im responsible for derailing this thread, any plans for Pittsburgh to pursue an NBA franchise? Or perhaps theres an NCAA basketball tenant for the arena already?

Agent Zeke

March 7th, 2010, 02:26 AM

Oilers are apparently working on it:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=50868673&postcount=1370

But I worry that the Lighthouse project will evaporate soon.

A few people mentioned the idea of the Isles moving to the Barclays center, but as things stand now, it probably won't happen. First the Rangers have to drop their territorial restrictions, then the arena needs to be redesigned to accommodate hockey, then the financial terms have to be hashed out to make it worthwhile for the Islanders.

That being said, I think it would still be cool to see them in Brooklyn. But I think it would also be cooler to see them in a brand new Seattle Center arena too :D.

Personally, I think three teams in the New York area is too much. I don't see the Devils going anywhere because they've got the brand new arena now, even though their attendance has been pretty poor. But since Seattle recently lost their NBA team, putting a team there would be a good idea. Seattle, Winnipeg, and Quebec have to be the three leading candidates for a NHL team if one is to move.

Agent Zeke

March 7th, 2010, 02:34 AM

before im responsible for derailing this thread, any plans for Pittsburgh to pursue an NBA franchise? Or perhaps theres an NCAA basketball tenant for the arena already?

The idea has been discussed. But I don't see an NBA franchise coming to Pittsburgh any time soon because we simply aren't a big enough city to support four major sports teams.

As for NCAA, the University of Pittsburgh already has their own on-campus facility (Peterson Events Center). But it is a possibility that Duquesne University could use the arena for larger games, as the Palumbo Center is pretty small (only about 5,800). It could also host the city game between Pitt and Duquesne, as that game normally sells out every time.

However, it is already scheduled that the arena and Duquesne will be a host for a regional of the 2012 NCAA Tournament.

Of other notes, the Penguins have also submitted a bid for the 2011 NHL All-Star weekend.

KingmanIII

March 7th, 2010, 02:34 AM

en1044

March 7th, 2010, 10:03 AM

Personally, I think three teams in the New York area is too much. I don't see the Devils going anywhere because they've got the brand new arena now, even though their attendance has been pretty poor. But since Seattle recently lost their NBA team, putting a team there would be a good idea. Seattle, Winnipeg, and Quebec have to be the three leading candidates for a NHL team if one is to move.

I wish we could see a team in Milwaukee.

Agent Zeke

March 7th, 2010, 06:07 PM

I wish we could see a team in Milwaukee.

Why?

KingmanIII

March 7th, 2010, 08:33 PM

^^Wisconsin is big on hockey.

Agent Zeke

March 8th, 2010, 03:48 AM

^^Wisconsin is big on hockey.

They definitely are. I think Milwaukee was one of the top cities for ratings during the Gold medal game in Vancouver.

But then, Quebec and Winnipeg are also great hockey markets that can definitely support a team. Neither of them moved for lack of support. I'm not so sure about Seattle though but they seem to have good fans as well.

BoulderGrad

March 8th, 2010, 08:16 AM

They definitely are. I think Milwaukee was one of the top cities for ratings during the Gold medal game in Vancouver.

But then, Quebec and Winnipeg are also great hockey markets that can definitely support a team. Neither of them moved for lack of support. I'm not so sure about Seattle though but they seem to have good fans as well.

Seattle has a quiet but rabid fan base for hockey. The metro area already supports 2 Canadian Major Junior teams pretty darn well (The Everett Silvertips are 8th in attendance of all of the CHL). Plus Canada is only a 2 hour drive away. On top of that, the metro area is pretty big to begin with (4 million people, 12th largest CSA in the US).

Really the only thing we're missing is a viable arena. Key Arena is set up terribly for hockey (from what I've read, intentionally so) and even then only holds about 14,000 which would make it even smaller than Nassau Veterans.

I follow the Consol Energy Center so much because an arena like this is exactly what Seattle needs to attract an NHL team and bring back the NBA. The number $300 million was thrown around as the amount of money available to renovate Key Arena again for the Sonics. But I say if Pittsburgh can get an arena like this for just over $300million, then Seattle should just tear down Key Arena and start anew.

Dexter Morgan

March 8th, 2010, 08:01 PM

massp88

March 8th, 2010, 08:05 PM

Seattle has a quiet but rabid fan base for hockey. The metro area already supports 2 Canadian Major Junior teams pretty darn well (The Everett Silvertips are 8th in attendance of all of the CHL). Plus Canada is only a 2 hour drive away. On top of that, the metro area is pretty big to begin with (4 million people, 12th largest CSA in the US).

Really the only thing we're missing is a viable arena. Key Arena is set up terribly for hockey (from what I've read, intentionally so) and even then only holds about 14,000 which would make it even smaller than Nassau Veterans.

I follow the Consol Energy Center so much because an arena like this is exactly what Seattle needs to attract an NHL team and bring back the NBA. The number $300 million was thrown around as the amount of money available to renovate Key Arena again for the Sonics. But I say if Pittsburgh can get an arena like this for just over $300million, then Seattle should just tear down Key Arena and start anew.

You do realize that the Vancouver Canucks will cover any Canadian fans that may support a Seattle team right?

massp88

March 8th, 2010, 08:08 PM

Nashville, Pheonix, and Atlanta should not be NHL cities. Move them to Milwakeee, Quebec, and Winnipeg. Actually I think the NHL should probably drop 2 of those teams all together. NHL has many too many teams as is.

It's important for the NHL and the sport of hockey to have teams in cities that are not traditional hockey hot beds, such as Los Angeles, Phoenix, Dallas, Nashville, Atlanta, Carolina and Florida.

renco

March 8th, 2010, 08:23 PM

eMKay

March 8th, 2010, 09:31 PM

I've heared Winnipeg and Quebec arenas aren't big enough for NHL?

Yes that's true. Winnipeg recently built one that is just barely too small by about 2500 seats. Quebec City could always build one, but both cities are very small, around 700,000 including metro areas.

Dexter Morgan

March 8th, 2010, 11:07 PM

It's important for the NHL and the sport of hockey to have teams in cities that are not traditional hockey hot beds, such as Los Angeles, Phoenix, Dallas, Nashville, Atlanta, Carolina and Florida.

Even when they consistently draw the fewest fans year in and year out? San Jose Sharks, LA Kings, Anaheim Ducks, and Dallas Stars are doing fine, Tampa Bay Lightning, Carolina Hurricanes are not doing great, but can survive, but the Phoenix Coyotes, Atlanta Thrashers, and the Nashville Predators are failing franchises.

renco

March 9th, 2010, 12:34 AM

Yes that's true. Winnipeg recently built one that is just barely too small by about 2500 seats. Quebec City could always build one, but both cities are very small, around 700,000 including metro areas.

Shame,especially for Winnipeg new arena.Taking in nottice their passion for ice-hockey and aspiration to host NHL team,they've made huge mistake with capacity.:ohno:

BoulderGrad

March 9th, 2010, 12:10 PM

You do realize that the Vancouver Canucks will cover any Canadian fans that may support a Seattle team right?

More referring to a lot of ex-pats living in Seattle. I play hockey with a number of guys that grew up in BC, but work for Microsoft or Boeing now. While it is a welcome treat for them to drive up for the weekend to see a Canucks game once or twice a season, I'm sure they would leap at the chance to see pro games at home in Seattle. I doubt that would be the meat of the fan base either. But that type of fan is around.

Plus our close proximity to Vancouver would give a sortof built in rivalry like the Sounders have with the Timbers and Whitecaps, or the Penguins have with the Flyers and Caps (or the :cry:, Sonics had with the Blazers).

massp88

March 9th, 2010, 08:02 PM

Even when they consistently draw the fewest fans year in and year out? San Jose Sharks, LA Kings, Anaheim Ducks, and Dallas Stars are doing fine, Tampa Bay Lightning, Carolina Hurricanes are not doing great, but can survive, but the Phoenix Coyotes, Atlanta Thrashers, and the Nashville Predators are failing franchises.

Southern cities, when compared to northern ones, don't support pro teams as well. Especially the state of Florida.

In any event, could you imagine the NHL if Tampa, Carolina, Atlanta, Nashville, Florida and Phoenix were to fold? You would have an entire region, the southeast, without an NHL team. That would really hurt. There are not 6 other cities that can support a team for the teams mentioned to move to.

massp88

March 9th, 2010, 08:04 PM

More referring to a lot of ex-pats living in Seattle. I play hockey with a number of guys that grew up in BC, but work for Microsoft or Boeing now. While it is a welcome treat for them to drive up for the weekend to see a Canucks game once or twice a season, I'm sure they would leap at the chance to see pro games at home in Seattle. I doubt that would be the meat of the fan base either. But that type of fan is around.

Plus our close proximity to Vancouver would give a sortof built in rivalry like the Sounders have with the Timbers and Whitecaps, or the Penguins have with the Flyers and Caps (or the :cry:, Sonics had with the Blazers).

I am not trying to kill you argument, but if I were to move to a new city, I would never imagine rooting for another team than the one I grew up rooting for. It would be like a Boston Red Sox fan moving to New York and rooting for the Yankees. If Seattle got an NHL team and established a rivalry with Vancouver, I don't see native BC people rooting for Seattle.

In any event, I think Seattle is more deserving of an NHL team than any team below Virginia. Seattle deserves a 3rd major sports franchise, it still boggles my mind that a pro sports team can move from Seattle to.....Oklahoma City, pretty sad.

RaGe77

March 14th, 2010, 07:47 PM

Shame,especially for Winnipeg new arena.Taking in nottice their passion for ice-hockey and aspiration to host NHL team,they've made huge mistake with capacity.:ohno:
http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance

There is no need for a bigger capacity if they can sell their premium seats. Nashville, Atlanta and Phoenix average about 15,000 or less in attendance this year. But those are inflated figures. Tickets distributed should not equal attendance in many arenas.

RaGe77

March 14th, 2010, 07:53 PM

Joe Louis is crap.

Besides that, this list is about right.

I'd rather see the Saddledome renovated, as it's one of the coolest atena designs I know.

So as far as outdated arenas go, this will take care of the Igloo. What other ones are left in the NHL that need replacing?

-MSG is getting a full renovation
-Nassau Veterans needs to go...
-The Joe could maybe use some TLC, but perhaps not replacement
-The Saddledome is getting up there
-Rexall place needs to be burned to the ground

Any other ones? Most others in the league are from the mid to late 90's and seem to be in pretty good shape and still have all the modern bells and whistles a team requires.
The Joe will not be getting renovated and most likely this could be the last year the Red Wings play there. They will probably move to the Palace while a new downtown arena gets built in the next 5 years.

Back on topic - Consol Energy Center looks great, glad the Pens are finally moving out of the Mellon dump.

renco

March 14th, 2010, 09:52 PM

http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance

There is no need for a bigger capacity if they can sell their premium seats. Nashville, Atlanta and Phoenix average about 15,000 or less in attendance this year. But those are inflated figures. Tickets distributed should not equal attendance in many arenas.

Hope you're right.I think there shouldn't be problem with attendance in Winnipeg.

nyrmetros

March 16th, 2010, 06:17 AM

Back on topic - Consol Energy Center looks great, glad the Pens are finally moving out of the Mellon dump.

The Igloo is not a dump. It's got lots of charm and character. No new arena has been able to replicate that.

Agent Zeke

March 16th, 2010, 07:11 AM

The Igloo is not a dump. It's got lots of charm and character. No new arena has been able to replicate that.

I wouldn't call it a dump, but it is close to 50 years old now and it was really never even designed to be a hockey arena in the first place. It was originally built for opera. I enjoy the Igloo as much as the next fan, but the Penguins deserve a new home. A larger capacity, seats that actually fit the team colors instead of red-blue-orange, and a building that holds sound will be a much appreciated change. The Igloo is an acoustical nightmare.

But I do believe it's in the best interests of everyone to not demolish the Igloo entirely, and there is a plan that would keep it from being entirely demolished.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/igloo1.jpg

First, the roof would be retracted and interior removed, but retaining the basic exterior structure at the same time. The ice surface would still remain as part of a public park, open to any members of the community. But since the dome does still operate, it could be closed in bad winter weather.

Then there could be space for either a hotel (I don't see that happening, as a 140-suite hotel is under construction right next to the Consol Energy Center), or other facilities. During the spring and summer, the rink would simply be covered and then the area could be used as a popular space to put the Jumbo-Tron, that has been used for the last couple years during Penguins' playoff games. That is a huge draw for fans who can't get tickets, as many times 8,000-12,000 will simply come to the Igloo now to watch a game on the big screen TV.

But the plan is not yet approved by the committee. They are meeting in June to decide the final fate of the Igloo, whether it might be reused in a manor like this or demolished altogether.

ngayxua

March 16th, 2010, 04:42 PM

Our Bolivia tours and adventures often include a pass through to Peru to hike the Inca trail. While you're in Bolivia our tours often include ice trekking, day trips to the salt flats, cultural immersion, and much more.

Agent Zeke

March 17th, 2010, 08:46 PM

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CECmtwash.jpg
Here is a view of the arena as seen from Grandview Park on Mt. Washington, and both the Mellon Arena and Consol Energy Center are visible.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CECinside.jpg
Workers continue to install seats in the upper bowl. 2700 seats have been installed to date.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid4332016001?bctid=72355452001 - a link to a video from the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review giving a brief tour with Penguins' CEO Ken Sawyer.

Penguins show off their new arena

It has already been announced that the Lady Gaga concert will be one of the first events in the ever-evolving Consol Energy Center. The Penguins are more confident than ever that their new palace is going have Penguins fans going ga-ga for quite some time. Looking more like a proud father than the Penguins CEO, Ken Sawyer showed off the most recent developments Tuesday at Consol Energy Center, which included the placement of about 2,700 of the arena's 18,087 seats.

The seats are primarily charcoal mixed with an occasional row of gold.

"It looks great," Sawyer said. "Every time you come here, you notice something different. It's getting better and better. We're all very excited."

Consol Energy Center's timeline is starting to become clear. Some facts were confirmed by Penguins officials yesterday.

» The scoreboard will be erected in April and tested in May. In fact, components of the scoreboard are currently being placed together on the arena floor.
» The Penguins will move into their new offices in July.
» Consol Energy Center will officially open in August.
» The Lady Gaga Concert, scheduled for Sept. 5, will not be the first event at the new arena. An August concert will likely open the arena, though no announcement has been made

A few sections of seats have been installed in the arena's upper bowl, and Sawyer was eager to show off the improvements from Mellon Arena. The seats at Consol Energy Center are bigger and more comfortable than anything Penguins fans have experienced before.

"We wanted everything in this building to be cutting edge, and it really is," Sawyer said.

Unobstructed views will be a new thing for Penguins fans. Many of Mellon Arena's seats are under a balcony that prohibits fans from seeing the scoreboard, and others showcase a less than savory view of the ice.

Such things will be a thing of the past starting next season.

"There is no obstruction anywhere," Sawyer said. "It is so much more comfortable of an environment."

The Consol Energy Center is much bigger than Mellon Arena, especially the massive concourses that have been modeled after Minnesota's Xcel Center. However, the Penguins didn't want their new building to feel overwhelming or overdone.

Sawyer describes the new place as "cozy."

Fans in the upper bowl will notice how close they feel to the ice. Although the seats are high, they are located almost directly above the ice, something that has become fashionable in new arenas.

"They'll feel like they're right on top of the players when they're watching games from here," said Sawyer, who was sitting in the upper bowl in Section 227. "Hockey purists really love that. There are truly no bad seats in this place."

The seats were made for comfort and won't discriminate against larger individuals.

The upper bowl seats at Consol Energy Center are 20 inches wide, compared to the 19-inch seats at Mellon Arena. On the lower level of the new building, the seats will be 20-22 inches wide.

Sawyer was even more excited about the "rise" and "tread" of the seats, which indicates the actual size of the seating area. The tread of the seats is 33 inches in the higher level and 35 inches in the lower bowl, making for a comfortable experience that will be without interference. Because the seats are so steep, even a tall person sitting in a row in front of a fan will not obstruct anyone's view.

"There's not another experience around the league that's like this," Sawyer said.

The Penguins have taken some of the finest features from the most highly regarded arenas around the league, especially those in Minnesota and Columbus. Sawyer said the arena is right on schedule.

"I couldn't be more pleased with the way things have gone," he said. "Everyone involved in this project has really been great. It's going to be a special place, and it's nice to see it coming together like it is."

Agent Zeke

March 17th, 2010, 09:11 PM

Some pictures of the seat installation...

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CECseats.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CECinstallation.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CECrows.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CECblackandgold.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CECsection227.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CECpan1.jpg

KingmanIII

March 20th, 2010, 05:55 PM

cleanest seating bowl I've ever seen...views look great even from the top of the arena

Benn

March 21st, 2010, 01:07 AM

Not a big fan of the exterior, but the bowl is crisp, clean and compact.

Agent Zeke

March 21st, 2010, 04:44 AM

Not a big fan of the exterior, but the bowl is crisp, clean and compact.

What's wrong with the exterior?

Benn

March 21st, 2010, 07:11 PM

eMKay

March 21st, 2010, 08:57 PM

The pitch of the seats doesn't look any steeper than any others. I love the open concourses like xcel.

Agent Zeke

March 21st, 2010, 10:10 PM

It feels kind of akward and chunked together, not real all that well composed. The new Orlando arena feels the same way. I know the site is kind of a challenge, but it seems like they could have done better. Especially considering how well Pittsburgh's other Pro venues have turned out.

They could have taken a que from the Petersen Events Center which is also on a sloped site and much more resolved, with a much grander facade on the main entry.

I think the main point there was that they wanted to build the arena in the downtown area, and the site they picked (which I didn't think was ideal either), it was one of only a few options. They wanted to have the arena set up so that the glass side would be facing the USX Tower and other buildings, a great view of the skyline for people eating in the restaurant.

In respect, the Pete isn't in the middle of the city and surrounded by existing buildings either, so Pitt had a lot more ability in what they did there.

The only thing I thought was a little odd was that every building surrounding the Consol Energy Center is made from red brick, but the arena is all tan. But after all, the exterior isn't the main part of an arena, the interior is what really matters.

Agent Zeke

March 21st, 2010, 10:13 PM

The pitch of the seats doesn't look any steeper than any others. I love the open concourses like xcel.

Maybe not but I think the main objective with the upper bowl was that no matter how tall a person is sitting in front of you, you'll always be able to see over them. The back of the seat in front of you doesn't even come up to your knees when sitting down.

But I do know that the Xcel Center was one building the Penguins took some ideas from when designing this, as well as Columbus and Phoenix.

massp88

March 22nd, 2010, 08:12 PM

The pitch of the seats doesn't look any steeper than any others. I love the open concourses like xcel.

The open concourses are such a great thing. That is going to be one of the better features of this arena I feel.

Hence why I feel Excel is the best venue in the NHL.

Benn

March 22nd, 2010, 09:10 PM

I think the main point there was that they wanted to build the arena in the downtown area, and the site they picked (which I didn't think was ideal either), it was one of only a few options. They wanted to have the arena set up so that the glass side would be facing the USX Tower and other buildings, a great view of the skyline for people eating in the restaurant.

In respect, the Pete isn't in the middle of the city and surrounded by existing buildings either, so Pitt had a lot more ability in what they did there.

The only thing I thought was a little odd was that every building surrounding the Consol Energy Center is made from red brick, but the arena is all tan. But after all, the exterior isn't the main part of an arena, the interior is what really matters.

Across sports red brick has gotten pretty played out in sports architecture (I know mostly in baseball, but elsewhere that it doesn't particularly belong), so I can understand them looking to other materials. And having it tie in into the other sports facilities of the city, which also employ tan masonry. Especially considering the universal success of PNC Park.

Agent Zeke

March 23rd, 2010, 06:31 AM

Across sports red brick has gotten pretty played out in sports architecture (I know mostly in baseball, but elsewhere that it doesn't particularly belong), so I can understand them looking to other materials. And having it tie in into the other sports facilities of the city, which also employ tan masonry. Especially considering the universal success of PNC Park.

I would say that was true, but PNC Park is on the north shore while the new arena is in the hill district. The tan masonry makes the Consol Energy Center stick out a bit from the other buildings, at least for now. When the new hotel is completed next door, it should be better off.

KingmanIII

March 24th, 2010, 12:25 AM

Consol will host NCAA first- and second-round tourney games in 2012, BTW.

They're also in the running for the Frozen Four.

Agent Zeke

March 24th, 2010, 07:17 AM

Consol will host NCAA first- and second-round tourney games in 2012, BTW.

They're also in the running for the Frozen Four.

Yes. I posted that - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=53015503&postcount=47 - a few pages ago.

Frozen four yes. The arena is also a primary contender to host the 2011 NHL All-Star weekend.

Mutilated

March 25th, 2010, 02:06 AM

Mellon Arena is one of the worst arenas i have ever seen.
Penguins really needed a new arena.

Benn

March 25th, 2010, 02:29 AM

I always kind of liked Mellon, really quirky and off beat sort of a space, but intriguing. But it was undersized with limited amenities and more than enough sightline issues.

Agent Zeke

March 25th, 2010, 08:45 AM

... and more than enough sightline issues.

You can say that again. If you're sitting in the back rows of the Section C behind the goals, you can't see the scoreboard...if you're in the back rows of Section E, you can't see the scoreboard or parts of the ice surface...or heaven forbid you have standing-room only.

Luckily, the Consol Energy Center will have none of the obstructed view seats or anything like it. Nothing like paying $50 for a seat and not being able to see the scoreboard and half the ice.

Plus, it's never a good feeling if you're under a balcony. You feel enclosed and suffocated, not even like a part of the crowd.

The Mellon can be a fine arena if you're lucky enough to sit in the Igloo seats or A/B sections, but in all there are just too many bad seats in the building. I said it before, the Igloo wasn't even built for hockey in the first place. Not even as a sporting venue. But has been used that way for almost 45 years now.

KingmanIII

March 26th, 2010, 04:48 AM

Yes. I posted that - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=53015503&postcount=47 - a few pages ago.

Frozen four yes. The arena is also a primary contender to host the 2011 NHL All-Star weekend.
Man, I really wanna see Pitt move some of their big-ticket games ('Nova, Cuse, WVU, etc.) here! The Pete is one of the best arenas in basketball but against top Big East competition a few thousand extra fans never hurts.

htpwn

March 26th, 2010, 05:14 AM

I've heared Winnipeg and Quebec arenas aren't big enough for NHL?

Not true at all. Winnipeg's arena currently seats 15000 and could probably fit another 1000 or so in along with skyboxes. Commissioner of the NHL, Gary Bettman had this to say:

Here's what Bettman told the Reuters news agency on Tuesday: "While we play to 93 to 94 per cent capacity, we'd like to play to 100 per cent capacity," Bettman said. "A 15,000-16,000 seat arena might work better in some markets than a 19,000-seat arena."

A 15,000- to 16,000-seat arena? Funny thing -- Winnipeg just happens to have one of those sitting on Portage Avenue, a shiny new building with loads of luxury boxes and precisely 15,002 seats for hockey.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/hockey/mts-centre-has-nhl-capacity-78501967.html

As for Quebec City, it currently does not have an arena capable of hosting the NHL. The Colisee is too small, too old, and generally outdated. However they are well on their way to changing that:

Quebec City Mayor Regis Labeaume on Friday announced plans to build a $400-million NHL-sized arena in the hope of bringing back a professional hockey team to the city that was home to the Nordiques until 1995.

The mayor laid out plans to build the modern 18,000-seat arena, which will be used as a concert venue and a hockey arena.

Read more: http://www.timescolonist.com/business/Quebec+City+build+400M+arena+lure/2112208/story.html#ixzz0jFEKTRuh

Anyways, Pittsburgh, the Consul Arena is looking great:cheers: I visited two years ago or so and took in a game at the Mellon Arena. Wasn't too impressed as my nosebleed seats were partially obstructed and the Leafs managed to get blown out as Malkin scored his first career hat trick but glad to see you guys have a new building going up, maybe I'll make a trip again in the next few years to check it out:)

Agent Zeke

March 26th, 2010, 06:40 AM

Man, I really wanna see Pitt move some of their big-ticket games ('Nova, Cuse, WVU, etc.) here! The Pete is one of the best arenas in basketball but against top Big East competition a few thousand extra fans never hurts.

I wouldn't doubt against it. Pitt sells out most games as it is and especially those ones. I think they could easily fill the 19,000 for WVU, Cuse, Nova and Georgetown. Obviously the Pete would still be the Pitt's true home but I don't see any reason why they couldn't play a few big ones at the Consol Energy Center.

I think Duquesne already does have plans to host Xavier, Dayton and such. But they might just have to close off the upper bowl and use the bottom half instead. I doubt a small school like DUQ would get close to 20,000, but the program has been resurrected recently and wants to get back to prominence again, so getting 9-10 thousand for big games would be nice.

Agent Zeke

March 26th, 2010, 06:48 AM

Anyways, Pittsburgh, the Consul Arena is looking great:cheers: I visited two years ago or so and took in a game at the Mellon Arena. Wasn't too impressed as my nosebleed seats were partially obstructed and the Leafs managed to get blown out as Malkin scored his first career hat trick but glad to see you guys have a new building going up, maybe I'll make a trip again in the next few years to check it out:)

Thanks!

I completely agree. I've sat up in E or F before and there are some really bad seats up there that can be very obstructed. The new building won't have any of that.

You should definitely make the trip, but it might have to be in a few years. It's going to be sold out for a long time. The season ticket waiting list is nearly 8,000 people right now and the Penguins are the hottest ticket in town. I'd almost say it's harder to get into a Pens game than a Steeler game.

As for Quebec City, it currently does not have an arena capable of hosting the NHL. The Colisee is too small, too old, and generally outdated. However they are well on their way to changing that

I think Quebec would be better than Winnipeg, if they can get the arena built. 15-16K just isn't that great in the NHL. I know they would fill it but it's hard to see Bettman moving a team to that kind of environment. I know Quebec sure didn't leave because of lack of fans.

htpwn

March 26th, 2010, 09:53 AM

Thanks!

I completely agree. I've sat up in E or F before and there are some really bad seats up there that can be very obstructed. The new building won't have any of that.

You should definitely make the trip, but it might have to be in a few years. It's going to be sold out for a long time. The season ticket waiting list is nearly 8,000 people right now and the Penguins are the hottest ticket in town. I'd almost say it's harder to get into a Pens game than a Steeler game.

Even when its sold out there's always ways to get tickets at slight mark ups... trust me I'm a Leaf fan. The Leafs have been presumably sold out since 1946. Scalpers obviously and then sites like Stubhub. Usually I don't have a problem paying because the tickets end up costing less than they would at the ACC anyways. But yes, I probably will wait a couple years. It's a lot shorter drive to Buffalo or Detroit for me anyways.

I think Quebec would be better than Winnipeg, if they can get the arena built. 15-16K just isn't that great in the NHL. I know they would fill it but it's hard to see Bettman moving a team to that kind of environment. I know Quebec sure didn't leave because of lack of fans.

Neither team left because of lack of fans although Quebec was definitely better than Winnipeg in that regard in terms of attendance but both were well supported. Winnipeg's "Save The Jets" rally was very touching. 30000 showed up on the rally and raised $3 million dollars in something like 2 weeks to try to save the team.

As for which one gets their franchise back quicker (if at all), it will be Winnipeg for one reason, David Tompson. He's rumored to hold a majority stake in the company that owns the MTS Centre. His net worth also happens to be a fairly hefty sum of $19 billion, good for 20th richest person in the world according to Forbes. If he wants a team, I don't see how the NHL could deny someone with that wealth.

BoulderGrad

March 27th, 2010, 11:45 AM

htpwn

March 27th, 2010, 03:48 PM

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/32354-Campbells-Cuts-Rumors-of-relocation.html

Coyotes may return to Winnipeg...

Either way, its a hot topic at the moment. One that the Penguins had to deal with for a little while themselves until the new arena came along. So who's for sale, and where could they move?

Teams For Sale or in danger of moving:
Phoenix Coyotes
Atlanta Thrashers
Florida Panthers
Nashville Predators
Tampa Bay Lightning
New York Islanders
Columbus Blue Jackets

Cities that want or could support teams:
Quebec City
Hamilton, ON
Winnipeg
(while we're at it: Toronto #2, Saskatoon, Halifax, Toronto #3, a whaling village in the Yukon, Toronto #4, 5, and 6etc.)
Seattle
Portland
Kansas City
Houston

Miss anything in either list?

Not really missing anything though I wouldn't put Hamilton specifically. Aside from having Copps Coliseum, Hamilton has nothing else to entice a team to the city. Out of the top 800 richest companies in Canada, Hamilton has 0 with its headquarters or (in the case of companies such as Ford, Microsoft, etc.) it's Canadian headquarters based inside the city or its suburbs. It's metro is around 600000-800000. The downtown core is pretty run down and the city is in the territorial rights of both the Sabres and Leafs. With Copps Coliseum needing $150 million to modernize it, I wonder if its almost better to just build a new arena in (what I would argue would be) a more favorable location in Southern Ontario such as North Toronto or Mississauga.

As for Winnipeg getting its team back, it all comes to to the city of Glendale. They need to find new revenue streams because they can't legally give subsidies to private corporations as per Arizona state law. I think Ice Edge has indeed fallen through but judging on other sources I've read, Reinsdorf is definitely back in the picture. It's going to be close. If the NHL can't get the team sold by June 10 (when the current lease subverts back to Moyes' estate and the team is left leaseless and thus relocatable), then the team will likely be heading back to Winnipeg. Until then, there's been so many twists, turns, and loops in this case, who knows what's going to happen.

massp88

March 27th, 2010, 07:52 PM

Benn

March 27th, 2010, 08:33 PM

Portland would do fine and already has a capable arena. Milwaukee is in a similar boat, although the Bradley center needs a renovation at the moment, but assuming that...

weava

March 27th, 2010, 09:18 PM

I also cannot imagine and NHL surviving in Kansas City better that the teams do in larger metro areas (Atlanta, Phoenix)

I think KC could support a team decently only because the city has no NBA team to compete with and has a brand new arena with no team in it.

desertpunk

March 27th, 2010, 10:32 PM

Cleveland could support a team. Baltimore might want one, so too Indianapolis and Salt Lake City.

Agent Zeke

March 27th, 2010, 11:56 PM

I think KC could support a team decently only because the city has no NBA team to compete with and has a brand new arena with no team in it.

I'm not so sure. They had the Scouts back in the 70s and that experiment failed completely.

Agent Zeke

March 28th, 2010, 12:00 AM

Cleveland could support a team. Baltimore might want one, so too Indianapolis and Salt Lake City.

No Cleveland could not. Four major sports teams in that city would be excessive. Pittsburgh is a bigger city (metro areas included) and we can't support four teams. Baltimore has the Capitals right up the road, I wouldn't put another team in that area.

Salt Lake might be able but I'd put a team in a lot of places sooner than Utah.

Agent Zeke

March 28th, 2010, 12:04 AM

BoulderGrad

March 28th, 2010, 12:05 AM

I don't think putting Houston in the list of cities that can support an NHL team is right. They are a decent market for an AHL team and their average attendance is only decent a best. I also cannot imagine and NHL surviving in Kansas City better that the teams do in larger metro areas (Atlanta, Phoenix)

How the AHL team does for attendance isn't really a great indicator of how an NHL team would do. Of course if NO ONE goes to watch the AHL team, then of course no one would probably go to an NHL game either. But the Aeros have been around for a long time which is not that common at that level accept for strong markets. I think Houston would do well following in the footsteps of Dallas. Rather than getting an expansion team that will suck for 5 or 6 years, they need to pick up a transplant that could produce decent results right away (They were one of the cities Lemiuex was looking at when he was shopping the pens around). Otherwise, they're the 6th biggest TV market in the country and they already have a relatively new arena that could house an NHL team. Not that Houston would be my first choice, I'm just saying they are definitely on the list of teams that could land an NHL franchise.

Agent Zeke

March 29th, 2010, 08:17 PM

From the Post-Gazette -

Sounds of the seasons to come will be SO much better at the new Consol Energy Center

It is one of the great constants at Penguins games, such an integral part of the experience that it's nearly possible to overlook at times.

To treat it as, well, so much background noise.

But for many of the guys who are going through warm-ups before the start of a game, the music that provides the soundtrack for their drills is something of which they are keenly aware.

"If it's bad music, it really bothers me," forward Craig Adams said.

That likely isn't an issue very often at home, although not necessarily because Adams is overly fond of the tunes there. Rather, the Mellon Arena playing surface appears to be something of an acoustic dead zone.

"In our building, you don't really hear it on the ice," forward Max Talbot said.

That shouldn't be an issue when the Consol Energy Center, with a state-of-the-art sound system, opens this fall.

"The fans are going to notice a huge difference from the first game on," said Bill Wareham, the Penguins' game-night producer. "Right, now, we're trying to do the best we can with what we have in the oldest arena in the league. We realize that the sound level is uneven in different levels of the building.

"In the new arena, the sound system will be four times as dynamic as we have now. We'll have over 250 additional speakers dispersed among the main concourse, suite, and upper concourse 'rings,' so every section will have great coverage."

The elevators and restrooms will have audio, too.

Upgrading the sound system was the easy part. Finding music that appeals to everyone, from players to paying customers, is more challenging.

"I often get feedback from the players and I try to take that all in because they're the ones playing the game," Wareham said.

Players have a say in the music that's played before games, as do the hockey-operations department and members of the Penguins' staff.

"It's really a joint effort," Wareham said. "We're trying to inject the building with energy, something that hopefully adds to the atmosphere and our home-ice advantage."

The PG has also been taking potential "nicknames" for the arena from local readers, because of course, all good sporting facilities need an alias. Here are some of the best ideas...

-The House that Mario Built
-The Turtle
-Le Magnifique Palais
-The Ice Den/Cave/Block
-The E-Gloo
-Lemigloo
-The Consoliseum
-The Igloo II

Agent Zeke

March 29th, 2010, 08:24 PM

For basketball fans out there, the Consol Energy Center is also for you. Good news for the 2012 NCAA regional in Pittsburgh and for the potential of Pitt or Duquesne playing games at the new arena.

Arena to sport used NCAA Tournament floor

Part of March Madness will live on in Pittsburgh.

City-Allegheny County Sports & Exhibition Authority board members are buying one of the floors used in this year's NCAA men's basketball tournament for use in the new arena.

The floor, manufactured by Connor Sport Court International of Salt Lake City, will cost $86,548. It was one of five contracts totaling $520,593 awarded Friday by the board for the Consol Energy Center, scheduled to open in August.

Tom McMillan, spokesman for the Penguins, who are overseeing the arena construction, said the floor will have been used no more than six times in the current tournament before being packed up and shipped to Pittsburgh.

It technically will be considered a refurbished floor because the NCAA logos will be replaced with those for the Consol Energy Center, he said.

"It's not like we're buying what you would consider a used car or a used court. It would have been new to this year's tournament," he said. "It's a top-of-the-line floor used in the NCAA tournament this year."

The floor will serve as more than a conversation piece at an arena where the main attraction will be hockey. It will come in handy when Duquesne University hosts the first and second rounds of the men's NCAA tournament in March 2012.

Because the court is being used in this year's tournament, local officials got a bit of a break on the price, Mr. McMillan said.

He did not know which of the specially made floors would make its way to Pittsburgh, but it probably won't be the one used in the Final Four. In three of the last four years, the national champion has purchased the floor on which it won the tournament, either for use on its home court or for mementos or fundraising purposes, according to USA Today.

massp88

March 29th, 2010, 08:29 PM

Cleveland could support a team. Baltimore might want one, so too Indianapolis and Salt Lake City.

Indy?? There is no way Indy gets another pro sports team. They don't have the population or the fan base to support an NHL team. The Colts built a 63,000 seat stadium, that says something.

Cleveland is a football city flat out. That and they don't have the biggest metro area. Once LeBron leaves, the Cavs will be a dead franchise once again.

How the AHL team does for attendance isn't really a great indicator of how an NHL team would do. Of course if NO ONE goes to watch the AHL team, then of course no one would probably go to an NHL game either. But the Aeros have been around for a long time which is not that common at that level accept for strong markets. I think Houston would do well following in the footsteps of Dallas. Rather than getting an expansion team that will suck for 5 or 6 years, they need to pick up a transplant that could produce decent results right away (They were one of the cities Lemiuex was looking at when he was shopping the pens around). Otherwise, they're the 6th biggest TV market in the country and they already have a relatively new arena that could house an NHL team. Not that Houston would be my first choice, I'm just saying they are definitely on the list of teams that could land an NHL franchise.

Houston would be on the list, but it would be far down it. Behind Seattle, Milwaukee, the Canadian cities and perhaps Portland and Salt Lake.

Agent Zeke

March 29th, 2010, 11:57 PM

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC2-1.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC1-1.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC10.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC13.jpg

Seating is also nearly complete in the upper bowl.
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC11.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC3-1.jpg

One of the 66 boxes...
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC12.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC7-1.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC8-1.jpg

...not yet open for service.
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC9.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC5-1.jpg

Locker room is not looking so bad either!
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC6-1.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC4-1.jpg

Video Screens "Remarkable"
The man in the first picture, Todd Stih, National Sales Manager for Mitsubishi Diamond Vision, stands 6'2".

Workers continue to make amazing progress on the construction of Consol Energy Center. Seats are being installed, the players’ locker room area is being outfitted, concession stands are being built – and word just arrived that the huge state-of-the-art video screens for the new scoreboard are one step closer to making their way to Pittsburgh.

The main scoreboard video screens for Consol Energy Center are 15' x 25', while the matrix video screens (scoring, time, statistical information) are 5' x 25'. Both sets of screens were recently assembled at the Mitsubishi factory and tested for color, clarity and the uniformity of images across the large display area.

“This is only the second video display that uses Mitsubishi’s high-contrast ‘black-packaged LED’ to show HD images in stunning contrast, brightness and clarity,” said Chris DeVivo, the Penguins’ director of media technology. “This produces the best image-quality possible on a high-density, large-scale video display. It features better black levels than what fans experience at home on their flat-panel displays.

“In addition, these displays are brighter than what fans see at home – and this brightness, combined with the black level, will provide for a picture quality that is simply remarkable.”

After testing, the boards will be carefully packaged and shipped to Pittsburgh. The matrix screens are expected to arrive in mid-April and the main video screens are expected to be here by late April. - Pittsburgh Penguins

KingmanIII

March 30th, 2010, 06:48 AM

1) Trade the Bucks to Nashville for the Preds,
2) Move the Thrashers to Winnipeg,
3) Move the Islanders to either Hamilton or Quebec,
4) Move the Kings back to Kansas City,
5) Give NBA expansion franchises to Louisville and Seattle, and
6) Give an NHL expansion franchise to whichever didn't get the Islanders.

weava

March 30th, 2010, 06:55 AM

1) 5) Give NBA expansion franchises to Louisville and Seattle

Memphis supports both the NBA and a college team so I guess Lville could but I have always heard that the popularity of the cardinals is why they won't get one. Seattle will need a new arena or owners willing to build an arena to get a team.

BoulderGrad

March 30th, 2010, 11:17 AM

After what Seattle went through with losing their storied sports franchise because of a crappily small arena, I'd say we call dibs on the Islanders if they don't get a local stadium deal worked out :D

Inside is looking great so far.

KingmanIII

March 31st, 2010, 01:52 AM

Memphis supports both the NBA and a college team so I guess Lville could but I have always heard that the popularity of the cardinals is why they won't get one. Seattle will need a new arena or owners willing to build an arena to get a team.
Yeah, U of L has scheduling priority at the new arena, even though they didn't contribute a dime towards it.

KingmanIII

March 31st, 2010, 02:05 AM

Cleveland could support a team. Baltimore might want one, so too Indianapolis and Salt Lake City.

Indy?? There is no way Indy gets another pro sports team. They don't have the population or the fan base to support an NHL team. The Colts built a 63,000 seat stadium, that says something.

Cleveland is a football city flat out. That and they don't have the biggest metro area. Once LeBron leaves, the Cavs will be a dead franchise once again.

Houston would be on the list, but it would be far down it. Behind Seattle, Milwaukee, the Canadian cities and perhaps Portland and Salt Lake.

After what Seattle went through with losing their storied sports franchise because of a crappily small arena, I'd say we call dibs on the Islanders if they don't get a local stadium deal worked out :D

Inside is looking great so far.
Seattle and Indy weren't built for hockey -- like many other places, the seating bowl was built around a basketball court, ergo rendering many seats unusable.

http://www.gotickets.com/cached/_images/maintainwidth/521x500/3289d6466a2cd8483042263f956c9f7d/keyarena_hockey_copy-2063.gif

http://intl.ticketseating.com/maps/450w/4766-conseco-fieldhouse-hockey.jpg

BoulderGrad

March 31st, 2010, 06:34 AM

Seattle and Indy weren't built for hockey -- like many other places, the seating bowl was built around a basketball court, ergo rendering many seats unusable.

Don't want to keep hammering at this point, but I understand that any team heading to Seattle would require either a new arena or massive reconfiguring of Key Arena. I was being facetious about the Islanders.

SpicyMcHaggis

May 27th, 2010, 08:48 PM

Any news/updates?

AgentSpooner

May 28th, 2010, 12:26 AM

I always wondered about how many hours those seat installers average in a week.
"ah, 60 seats down, 17,000 to go"

Agent Zeke

June 1st, 2010, 08:39 PM

Not sure how many hours they average, but they've finished the job pretty quickly I'd say.

Ask and you shall receive! Sorry if a few might be a little dark.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC1-2.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC2-2.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC3-2.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC5-2.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC4-2.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC10-1.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC6-2.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC7-2.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC8-2.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC9-1.jpg

The new boards are also being installed

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC13-1.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC12-1.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC11-1.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC15.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/szikov6/CEC14.jpg

Agent Zeke

July 4th, 2010, 04:28 AM

Some new pictures, taken June 30. The arena is still on schedule for it's opening date of August 18, 2010 when Paul McCartney opens the festivities.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMI5dL6tI/AAAAAAAABMQ/45cZR9KF3xA/s720/IMG_2545.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMKQ0iDtI/AAAAAAAABMQ/pXNo7aJXx4I/s720/IMG_2547.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMLTjJtKI/AAAAAAAABMQ/1t1TnkfCH94/s720/IMG_2549.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMOidJB9I/AAAAAAAABMQ/QfAFTwaqynI/s720/IMG_2553.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMV5eDPGI/AAAAAAAABMQ/QCUfoKHI2EI/s720/IMG_2564.JPG
Production Station

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMbQ3F-bI/AAAAAAAABMQ/ZFayWqpkW7I/s720/IMG_2573.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMaEcMBiI/AAAAAAAABMQ/HNyCwHwKOq8/s720/IMG_2572.JPG
Press Row...

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMdvvjeiI/AAAAAAAABMQ/9zFgJxLnY6A/s720/IMG_2578.JPG
...and a 75x zoom HD camera

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMZN5dROI/AAAAAAAABMQ/nr0Lc2M9xjM/s720/IMG_2570.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMe23_6PI/AAAAAAAABMQ/noV5YXubeaI/s720/IMG_2581.JPG

Agent Zeke

July 4th, 2010, 04:38 AM

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMgh-mP4I/AAAAAAAABMQ/zx4Foy4EbiI/s720/IMG_2585.JPG
Outside, the new parking garage next door. You can also see on the left, the new 142-room Cambria Suites hotel.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMgPXuUtI/AAAAAAAABMQ/pVRqRRiOLnU/s720/IMG_2584.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMkh8L54I/AAAAAAAABMQ/MA7-KDk_oNg/s720/IMG_2591.JPG
An escalator to the upper bowl

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMliEYbPI/AAAAAAAABMQ/188-CKNHRoY/s720/IMG_2593.JPG
Brew pub.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMmokTtLI/AAAAAAAABMQ/0W1LToi0uO0/s720/IMG_2595.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMojiAbWI/AAAAAAAABMQ/SpNAMtGoE2E/s720/IMG_2598.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMqeoXuGI/AAAAAAAABMQ/yyRHhC4A69k/s720/IMG_2601.JPG
...on the suite level.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMq5C2r5I/AAAAAAAABMQ/Tl24FuMIR_s/s720/IMG_2602.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMs30m3hI/AAAAAAAABMQ/dqEq7h6lgzc/s720/IMG_2606.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMtW6NP1I/AAAAAAAABMQ/R-qjwkIyqq8/s720/IMG_2607.JPG

Agent Zeke

July 4th, 2010, 04:47 AM

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMvtxEUwI/AAAAAAAABMQ/yVnYKnfihSU/s720/IMG_2612.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMxQrWZRI/AAAAAAAABMQ/WhidX7z2e3M/s720/IMG_2615.JPG
Team Store

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMyZCO7LI/AAAAAAAABMQ/9_zK4lK1JKE/s720/IMG_2617.JPG
All-Time Team gallery

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwMzupq61I/AAAAAAAABMQ/Z9xchluR2eI/s720/IMG_2620.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwM1DAD-7I/AAAAAAAABMQ/z6-W-B7i2Qg/s720/IMG_2622.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwM3EzVfzI/AAAAAAAABMQ/M8ys-nfqubo/s720/IMG_2625.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwM4dhvF1I/AAAAAAAABMQ/X5eSjFSjvgs/s720/IMG_2627.JPG
Visiting locker room...

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwM4rjdohI/AAAAAAAABMQ/ppp0AoX53zY/s720/IMG_2628.JPG
...and the Penguins locker room

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TCwM6HffDFI/AAAAAAAABMQ/MOXZDPLPXAA/s720/IMG_2631.JPG
Player lounge

*ALL OF THE PROCEEDING IMAGES CREDITED TO CHRIS DEVIVO*

brewerfan386

July 4th, 2010, 07:04 AM

^^
Awesome Updates!

Agent Zeke

July 10th, 2010, 12:32 AM

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TDVEKFIav1I/AAAAAAAABTI/Wup65QKbJ_k/s720/IMG_2914.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TDVENYiQ6NI/AAAAAAAABTI/60Ght-uE3l0/s720/IMG_2920.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TDVEN4hqi0I/AAAAAAAABTI/yvXO2CwiUy4/s720/IMG_2921.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TDVEPCcuv2I/AAAAAAAABTI/Qqjm9FF8zRw/s720/IMG_2923.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TDVERrlmd_I/AAAAAAAABTI/KD5Q2RvEMN8/s720/IMG_2927.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TDVEQ9PJPII/AAAAAAAABTI/io-T0gxcy6U/s720/IMG_2926.JPG
Penguins locker room

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TDVESepfRhI/AAAAAAAABTI/UbyxeZkoyww/s720/IMG_2929.JPG
Interview area outside the locker room

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TDVETRU3xwI/AAAAAAAABTI/O-nsdSC3wAM/s720/IMG_2931.JPG
Player runway & Suite 66

Agent Zeke

July 10th, 2010, 12:41 AM

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TDVEU2An1XI/AAAAAAAABTI/zKFKiCi-A5c/s720/IMG_2933.JPG
Between the Bench announcer

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TDVEYXqEJiI/AAAAAAAABTI/k3QDFbQVyvI/s720/IMG_2937.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TDVEY_-JS8I/AAAAAAAABTI/OAow6XBhIjM/s720/IMG_2938.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TDVEaLEXmAI/AAAAAAAABTI/9NwL9-O7OAY/s720/IMG_2940.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TDXdSBhAJxI/AAAAAAAABTI/tr8zlYCSu2s/s720/IMG_2900.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TDVEb8cxBjI/AAAAAAAABTI/e9hsK_X5vSY/s720/IMG_2943.JPG
Title banners now hanging from the rafters, with the 3 Stanley Cups in the middle

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TDXc7V9Hg4I/AAAAAAAABTI/KXrVAoBDL_Q/s720/IMG_2897.JPG

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TDXdm3s89iI/AAAAAAAABTI/mkLYo04EObw/s720/IMG_2901.JPG
*ALL OF THE PROCEEDING IMAGES CREDITED TO CHRIS DEVIVO*

Agent Zeke

July 10th, 2010, 12:43 AM

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_-YlSMZvlfSg/TDdDDtQRsHI/AAAAAAAABTU/uWfEUMrLweY/s1600/bowl.JPG

Almost ready for some hockey!

SpicyMcHaggis

July 10th, 2010, 01:04 AM

Last picture is absolutely fantastic!

en1044

July 10th, 2010, 07:04 PM

Does this place have a club level?

RaiderATO

July 10th, 2010, 08:19 PM

Does this place have a club level?

Looks like its right there between the ribbon video boards.

KingmanIII

July 11th, 2010, 12:41 AM

Does this place have a club level?

Looks like its right there between the ribbon video boards.
That's actually the suite level.

http://cdn.nhl.com/penguins/images/upload/2010/03/consol-seatmap1.jpg

The club seats are the sky-blue sections, and right behind those are the loges.

RaiderATO

July 11th, 2010, 03:12 AM

Rausa

July 11th, 2010, 03:26 AM

This is going to be one of the best in NHL for sure.

en1044

July 11th, 2010, 03:51 AM

Im not a big fan of that kind of club seating. I never like it when it goes all the way down to the field/court/ice.

To me thats a major strike against this arena.

Agent Zeke

July 11th, 2010, 05:31 AM

Im not a big fan of that kind of club seating. I never like it when it goes all the way down to the field/court/ice.

To me thats a major strike against this arena.

What's wrong with that? The Igloo club seats at the Mellon Arena were in the exact same spot. The plan here was always to keep that similar format. Makes it much easier when distributing season tickets.

en1044

July 11th, 2010, 07:55 AM

What's wrong with that? The Igloo club seats at the Mellon Arena were in the exact same spot. The plan here was always to keep that similar format. Makes it much easier when distributing season tickets.

It often looks bad on TV and can screw up prices around the rest of the arena. I know Mellon Arena was the same way and you could often see empty seats close to the ice. Obviously they weren't all empty but I could tell something was missing. Did Mellon Arena have a separate club concourse to deal with people sitting in club seats?

As for the rest of the arena, having an entire section dedicated to club seats instead of an individual section can increase prices for people who want to sit in the lower bowl but DONT want club seats. A three tiered arena with a dedicated tier for club seats just makes more sense to me. If you dont want three tiers, then do what they did at the Wachovia Center in Philly.

broncoempire

July 11th, 2010, 08:03 AM

Perhaps they chose to put the club seats in the center of the lower bowl because they felt it achieved their purposes in regards to quantity as well as finances without adding tremendous increases (and thus, costs) to the building. Placing the club seating where it is eliminates the need for a dedicated club level by placing the lounge along the sides of the main concourse, thus keeping the height of the building down and the cost lower. It also allows the owners to offer the seating at the desired pricing point as opposed to having the club seating wrap all the way around the building like in a building like say, the Pepsi Center in Denver, and charge different prices depending on their proximity to center ice.

When the goal is to only offer about 18,000 seats there aren't a whole lot of options available. I agree that if they chose to incorporate an additional level, the approach used in the Wachovia Center is the best choice, but in this case it would raise the height and probably add several hundreds/thousands of seats to the total. A city like Pittsburgh probably doesn't need more than 18,000 seats, especially when owners are trying to create artificial scarcity everywhere.

KingmanIII

July 11th, 2010, 06:08 PM

Seems like just a difference of terminology. Club seats in an outdoor arena (to me) are the outdoor seats between the lower and upper levels.

In an indoor arena I'd try to find the closest thing to that, which isn't whats listed as "club" here (lower level sideline seating/suites). In my experience, Club/Suite/Loge all seem to mean the same or become interchangeable between arenas.
Club seats are individual seats with exclusive access to a private lounge or concourse.

Loge boxes are a kind of "poor man's" luxury suite with cushioned chairs, countertops, televisions, a mini-fridge, in-game wait staff, etc., which usually share access to the same lounge/concourse as the club seat holders.

http://cdn.nhl.com/coyotes/bc/images/tickets/images/loge_suites_1.jpg
http://cdn.nhl.com/coyotes/bc/images/tickets/images/loge_suites_2.jpg

At the vast majority of venues, tbe suites are located on a separate tier, anyway, so a "club" level only implies that another tier was set aside for individual club seats, instead of them being placed in the general seating bowl.

An example of a club level in an indoor arena is the XCel Energy Center in Saint Paul:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2369/2210959701_b4bf09b753.jpg

The tier below the upper deck is the club level.

KingmanIII

July 11th, 2010, 06:23 PM

Agent Zeke

July 12th, 2010, 03:43 AM

It often looks bad on TV and can screw up prices around the rest of the arena. I know Mellon Arena was the same way and you could often see empty seats close to the ice. Obviously they weren't all empty but I could tell something was missing. Did Mellon Arena have a separate club concourse to deal with people sitting in club seats?

As for the rest of the arena, having an entire section dedicated to club seats instead of an individual section can increase prices for people who want to sit in the lower bowl but DONT want club seats. A three tiered arena with a dedicated tier for club seats just makes more sense to me. If you dont want three tiers, then do what they did at the Wachovia Center in Philly.

I don't think empty seats will be a problem here. I didn't even really notice much of a problem with the Mellon Arena last year. Sure there may have been a few here and there, but a lot of those club seats are corporate owned (Mellon, US Steel, PPG, CONSOL, etc) and they don't re-sell them. Yes the Igloo had a club concourse, wasn't anything big but it had all the usual amenities.

Don't worry, the prices for any seat in this arena will be very high. They were even charging $50 for an obstructed view seat at the Igloo in the regular season last year. No lower bowl seat will be cheap, and anyway, the club seats at the Mellon were never all that much more than the A or B level seats.

I don't think they had a choice however. If they decided to move/reduce the number of club seats, the season ticket holders from the Mellon would not be very pleased if they either had to sit higher in the new building or change their plan. Maybe it is not ideal but I can think of quite a few worse potential problems.

renco

July 12th, 2010, 10:46 AM

Looking great :okay:

BoulderGrad

August 12th, 2010, 09:06 AM

First concert is Aug 18th. Should we move this to Completed?
http://www.consolenergycenter.com/default.asp?consol=61&urlkeyword=News%20Detail&objId=61

Open house on the 28th for anyone who wants to snap some pictures for all of us.

massp88

August 12th, 2010, 08:36 PM

KingmanIII

August 13th, 2010, 07:38 AM

Since the club seats are in the lower bowl and there are 2 clubs, how are the entrances to those clubs going to work? Will they be private areas for those with club seats? Or will you have to walk across the general concourse and show a ticket to get into them?
In some places, the club lounge is located off the main concourse, requiring a ticket to get in. At some other places, the club lounge is located below-grade, with access to the seating bowl available through separate vomitories.

It looks as if the club lounge here will be of the former variety.

http://magamaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/mellon.jpg

Topher51

August 13th, 2010, 06:34 PM