Visions for Tower Clash at Trade Center Site

NY Times

By DAVID W. DUNLAP

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/10/23/nyregion/23REBU1184.jpg

The architects David M. Childs, left, and Daniel Libeskind, center, with Larry A. Silverstein at the trade center site in July.

Only 10 months before groundbreaking is expected to take place for the Freedom Tower at the World Trade Center site, the master planner of the site and the architect for the tower's developer, who are supposed to be collaborating, have reached an impasse on how the skyscraper should look.

Although the version being designed by David M. Childs, of Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, for the developer, Larry A. Silverstein, has not been seen publicly, it is stylistically quite different from the widely publicized images of the Freedom Tower drawn up by Studio Daniel Libeskind as part of its master plan.

Mr. Libeskind has called for an asymmetrical composition: a slender, antenna-topped spire rising along the western edge of an office tower, abstractly complementing the Statue of Liberty on the skyline. Mr. Childs has proposed a more monolithic and symmetrical structure that would twist and taper as it rose, culminating in antennas surrounded by an open framework.

The differences are more than cosmetic. Without an agreed-upon aesthetic approach, there can be no detailed drawings. Without drawings, there can be no construction. So the pressure to find common ground is enormous, particularly since Gov. George E. Pataki has set Sept. 11, 2006, as the deadline for the topping off, or structural completion, of the Freedom Tower.

Asked whose vision would prevail, those involved answered yesterday that the collaborative effort would resume and that Mr. Libeskind and Mr. Childs would pick up again after an uneasy meeting four days ago.

"Every artistic collaboration in history had its fits and starts, but they are ultimately judged on what they produced," said Matthew Higgins, chief operating officer of the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, which is planning the site with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

"In this case," Mr. Higgins said, "we are confident that Libeskind and Childs will design a Freedom Tower that will make our entire nation proud." He said the corporation was not even considering the prospect that the two architects would fail in a collaborative effort.

Mr. Libeskind said he had tremendous respect for Mr. Childs's ability. "We both have strong opinions about design," he said. "Nothing worthwhile was ever created without some conflict, and what emerges from a collaboration should be even greater than the sum of its parts."

Employees of Studio Daniel Libeskind, at 2 Rector Street, are working in the Skidmore, Owings & Merrill office at 14 Wall Street. "Sometimes we shoot quickly ahead and sometimes it slows down," Mr. Childs said. "We're proceeding toward what we both believe will be a magnificent end result."

And Mr. Silverstein, while acknowledging that there were issues between the architects that "need to be worked through," said yesterday that he still expected the collaboration would produce an exceptional tower.

But these public pleasantries do not change the fundamentally awkward arrangement — by no means unique to the trade center site — that arises when prominent architects are compelled to work together, one of them on a master plan for a complex, one of them on a building design within the complex.

Complicating matters is that while the Port Authority owns the 16-acre site, Mr. Silverstein is the long-term leaseholder. So the redevelopment process has long reflected the tension between the needs of the public and those of a commercial landlord who is expected to have at least $3.5 billion in insurance proceeds with which to finance reconstruction.

Mr. Libeskind's master plan for the site was chosen in February by the Port Authority and the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation after an international competition that, at one point, included Skidmore. Seen around the world, the Libeskind concept, called Memory Foundations, showed an array of towers around the memorial area, rising to a 1,776-foot skyscraper at the northwest corner of the site, which Governor Pataki named the Freedom Tower.

In May, Mr. Silverstein said Mr. Libeskind would not actually design the Freedom Tower, though he promised that it would "reflect the spirit of Dan's site plan." Instead, he chose Mr. Childs, with whom he was already working on the 7 World Trade Center office building project across Vesey Street.

Two months later, the development corporation announced a "historic collaboration" on the tower between the Skidmore firm, which was to serve as "design architect and project manager," and the Libeskind studio, which was to be the "collaborating architect during the concept and schematic design phases" and a "full member of the project team."

What must be resolved, however, is the vital issue of whether the tower is meant to be a hybrid of distinctive ideas or a Skidmore, Owings & Merrill design that will be critiqued by Studio Daniel Libeskind.

A revised version of the Memory Foundations plan that was presented last month continued to show an asymmetrical, angular Freedom Tower with a side spire rising to a pinnacle.

Asked at the time whether the completed building would resemble his model, Mr. Libeskind replied, "Well, I'm an optimist."

Mr. Childs and Mr. Libeskind appeared together three weeks ago with three more architects whom Mr. Silverstein has brought into the project: Norman Foster, Fumihiko Maki and Jean Nouvel. "This is not an assault on Danny's talent," Mr. Childs said that afternoon, noting that the master plan always anticipated the participation of a number of architects.

This week, as efforts were going on behind the scenes to smooth over the differences between the architects, Mr. Libeskind gave a lecture about the design process at the National Building Museum in Washington.

"Look, I come from a Hasidic background," he said on Tuesday night. "I know forced marriages and they always worked for a long time."

Here's another article...

NY POST

LIBESKIND STORMS OUT IN WTC BATTLE

By WILLIAM NEUMAN

October 23, 2003 -- Ground Zero master planner Daniel Libeskind stormed out of a meeting about the design of the site's Freedom Tower, threatening to break up his collaboration with the project's lead architect, David Childs, sources told The Post.

After the Monday afternoon face-off, Libeskind also ordered several staffers working at Childs' Skidmore Owings & Merrill offices to pack up their equipment and leave - but at least two of them returned to work the next day.

Libeskind and Childs - the architect hired by WTC developer Larry Silverstein - have had an uneasy collaboration for months. But their differences came to a head this week - and in the aftermath, both sides were pointing fingers.

"Childs said, 'Take it or leave it; this is what we're building.' Libeskind said, 'This doesn't fit into the master plan, and that's not acceptable,' " said one source.

But other sources said it was Libeskind who delivered the ultimatum.

"The guy [Libeskind] stormed out. He wants to build his own building," said a source.

Libeskind wants a tower similar to the one in his original master plan, with an asymmetrical, skyscraping spire and antenna that evokes the raised torch of the Statue of Liberty.

Childs is working on a design that's markedly different, incorporating a 70-story office tower that's topped by an unoccupied, lattice-like structure that rises into the skyline.

Both architects have been working on designs that exceed the symbolic 1,776-foot height of Libeskind's original sketch.

Under pressure from development officials, the two agreed to work together last July, with Childs as the lead architect and Libeskind in a vague role as collaborator.

Officials downplayed the imbroglio and said they will bring the two together for another meeting tomorrow.

"It's a typical architectural back and forth," said a source. "They're actually getting close [to solving their differences]."

But another source said the architects' strongly contrasting visions could lead to a final falling-out.

Libeskind has never built a skyscraper before and is primarily interested with coming up with an abstract shape that meshes with his master plan, sources said. Childs has built numerous office towers.

Adding to the pressure on the two architects, Gov. Pataki is planning a major speech on the progress of lower Manhattan recovery for Oct. 30, and sources said he wants to point to their collaboration as a sign things are moving ahead.

One insider said Libeskind may be hoping the stand-off will persuade the governor to side with him.

Check this cartoon out...

http://www.nypost.com/delonas/2003/10/10242003.jpg

NY POST

TOWER TURNAROUND

By WILLIAM NEUMAN

October 28, 2003 -- EXCLUSIVE

Daniel Libeskind's striking vision for a "Freedom Tower" at Ground Zero has morphed into a more conventional glass-and-steel office building attached to an angular spire, as shown by one of the architect's new drawings obtained by The Post.

Libeskind has been pushing this revised version of his tower design in a fight with trade center developer Larry Silverstein and his architect David Childs, who is the lead architect for the site's signature building.

At the urging of development officials, the architects are scheduled to meet today for the first time since Libeskind stormed out of a meeting with Childs last Monday, refusing to work on a different design.

Childs' design has not been made public.

The new rendering by Libeskind - one of several he is said to be working with - differs from earlier versions in that he leaves out the slashing diagonal lines that crisscrossed the face of the building in previous images.

Instead, Libeskind has pasted onto the tower's surface the sort of standard glass and steel "curtain wall" façade that can be found on many Midtown buildings.

A spire, evoking the raised torch of the Statue of Liberty, tops out at the symbolic height of 1,776 feet, but technical documents compiled by Libeskind say a broadcast antenna on "a single mast above the spire may extend to 2,100 [feet]."

In other modifications to Libeskind's tower, the Ground Zero planner has made the office building and spire part of a single structure. The technical documents obtained by The Post also describe "extensive areas of [the] spire without cladding," suggesting the upper section could also be made into an open framework.

Childs' building is said to be a symmetrical tower that twists and tapers as it rises, with 70 stories of offices. Above the occupied space the tower would turn into an open latticework framework that rises into the skyline.

I love that cartoon....It is so true! I would not be surprised to find a ruler up Libeskind's ass after a meeting with Childs'!

Here's Libeskind's latest rendering. We still haven't seen Childs's version.

Detail:
Floors: 88
Top of "building" section 1286 Feet
Top of "encolsed" space in the spire 1410 Feet
Top of "point" on spire 1776 Feet

http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/Stern/libe.jpg

I don't know why, but that tower really appeals to me. It needs to rise taller though.

The top of the "building" section is taller than the mast on the Empire State and only about 80 feet short of the WTC roof.

I'd like it to go taller too but everything considered (Silverstein) I'm pleased so far. :)

The design could still use some refinement though.

I wish the glass part of the building would rise to the top of the spire and the spire would continue to 2,100 feet. Perfect!

Don't like it, it's a step backwards IMO.

This design is better than the new one:

http://wtc.e27.com/press/middle/SEPT-VIEW-5T.jpg

Of course, I think we can do WAY better than anything being offered.

I was showing my friend the designs and he said "I can shit better designs that those!" Funny stuff.....

Why would you want to build a huge skyscraper were 2000+ people died ????
i think it should be made into a big park,

is this the real new rendering????

Originally posted by Mr. Urban

Why would you want to build a huge skyscraper were 2000+ people died ????
i think it should be made into a big park,

First of all, we have to. It's in Manhattan and it is prime real estate. Something was going to go up whether we like the new thing or not. Second, it's the right thing to do. I know If I had died, I wouldn't want a park dedicated to me and others so for the reast of eternity, I could be mourned in the middle of the business capital of the world. People should move on, and rebuilding the Trade Center is proof. I think it is the biggest monument to the dead.

Originally posted by S4dO

is this the real new rendering????

This is Libeskind's version of the Freedom tower, but he's not working alone, he's collaborating with David Childs and that design is expected to be released on December 15th.

it's much better!!!!
But the spire..... :baaa:

NYTimes December 10, 2003
More Revisions in Plans for New York's Tallest Tower
By DAVID W. DUNLAP

The nearly completed design for the signature tower at the World Trade Center site would recapture the title of world's tallest building for New York City without forcing anyone to work higher than 70 stories in the sky.

Gov. George E. Pataki, who effectively controls the rebuilding process at ground zero, will unveil the plan next week. It will bear little resemblance to the asymmetrical and angular design by Daniel Libeskind that has been in the public eye for almost a year. Instead, it is largely the work of David M. Childs, the architect for the tower's developer, Larry A. Silverstein.

Those who have seen the design of the Freedom Tower, as Mr. Pataki calls it, describe a torqued and tapering form culminating in an unoccupied, open-air structure filled with cables, trusses, antennas and — recalling the energy source that helped settle Lower Manhattan 350 years ago — windmills that may generate 20 percent of the electrical power needed by the building.

The 70-story occupied part of the Freedom Tower would rise 1,000 to 1,100 feet, more than 200 feet shorter than the twin towers. But the open-air structure would reach 1,776 feet, exceeding Taipei 101, which is being built on Taiwan, and would take the world's tallest title from the Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, which took it from the Sears Tower in Chicago, which took it from the trade center. The Freedom Tower's antenna would reach 2,000 feet.

This unusual hybrid would allow New York to "reclaim our skyline," the governor said in October, while acknowledging that most New Yorkers — 62 percent, according to a recent New York Times Poll — would not be willing to work in one of the higher floors of a new building at the trade center site.

What that leaves is a framework in which turbines can be installed to create a kind of vertical wind farm on the shores of the Hudson River.

"There is nothing about the technology that's unusual or experimental," said Ashok Gupta, the director of the air and energy program at the Natural Resources Defense Council, who has been advising state officials on environmental issues and has seen the plan. "It's the application of it which is different and new. We have the opportunity because we want to build a very tall tower and not occupy a large part of it."

Mr. Gupta said the idea of a building producing some of its own energy was particularly appealing given the history of the site. "What happened on 9/11 was indirectly and in part related to the fact that we get a large part of our energy from parts of the world that seem not to like us," he said.

"The word `freedom' is great," Mr. Gupta said. "For us, `freedom' means freedom from pollution, freedom from oil, freedom from global warming."

Mr. Gupta said the altitude of the building and its location close to the confluence of the Hudson and East Rivers might mean that the turbines would generate electricity at least 40 percent of the time. That might be enough, he said, to cover the base power demand — that is, the minimum needed overnight when most offices are closed — but nowhere near peak demand on a hot summer work day.

The windmills, like the 1,776-foot height and the building's torque and taper, seem virtually certain to be among the elements that the public will see next week. But the design of the open-air structure at the top, which will bear on its relationship to the four other office towers envisioned at the site, has yet to be resolved or approved by state officials.

Governor Pataki has set a deadline of Monday for receipt of the plan. He will be the ultimate arbiter, acting through the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the trade center property, and the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation, which is charged with planning the site.

Asked yesterday about the status of the design, Matthew Higgins, the chief operating officer of the development corporation, said only, "We're excited by the progress, but more work remains to be done."

It seems safe to say that the design will keep changing until the last moment, given the tumultuous relationship between Mr. Libeskind, who is the master planner of the trade center site, and Mr. Childs, a partner in Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, who is working for Silverstein Properties.

However, enough is known with certainty about Freedom Tower that a number of people who have seen the plans were willing to discuss the project yesterday, most of them making anonymity a condition of doing so.

Until the governor announces the plan, no renderings of the building are likely to be made public. But it turns out that a conceptual forerunner of the Freedom Tower design was published Sept. 8, 2002, in an issue of The New York Times Magazine devoted to the past and future of the trade center site.

Drawing on a number of influences — including Isamu Noguchi, Buckminster Fuller and Frank Gehry — Guy Nordenson of Guy Nordenson & Associates, an engineer who is now working with Mr. Childs on the Freedom Tower, offered a torqued tower that would be "structurally sound, even at very great heights."

"An exterior structure of steel and an interior structure of concrete work together to resist both wind and gravity; the twisting of the entire form reduces the dynamic effects of the wind," said the caption for Mr. Nordenson's diagram, which showed a twisting building with a latticework top.

What it did not show — significantly — were the taper, the angled roof and the antenna that will characterize the Freedom Tower. The proportion of enclosed building to open framework is also markedly different.

But as a concept, it is closer to the Freedom Tower that Mr. Silverstein intends to build than the rendering by Mr. Libeskind that has been shown repeatedly in the year since he joined in the planning and design effort. (As late as last night, Mr. Libeskind's rendering still appeared on the Silverstein Properties Web site, in the "Development" category.)

Mr. Libeskind's plan was officially designated as the "design concept" for the trade center site in February 2003, more than six months after Mr. Nordenson's torqued tower was published.

Perhaps the biggest question in coming days will be the extent to which the new Freedom Tower design is seen as adhering to Mr. Libeskind's plan, which calls for the tallest building on the site to conjure and complement the Statue of Liberty, as well as crowning an ascending spiral of towers.

Neither Mr. Childs nor Mr. Libeskind would comment yesterday.

It's now official, George Pataki has taken nearly full control of the WTC rebuilding process. Maybe I'm ranting too much, but his cowardice concerning the number of floors, his addiction to THE latticework, and obsession with political correctness (wind turbines on top of a skyscraper? :? ) is largely negative to the city, and the sooner he is forced out of office the better.

I wouldn't exactly say that the turbines are negative to the city. And I don't think that having them is a "politically correct" idea. If anything it's actually an excercise in good planning. The original WTC towers required enough electricity to power a small city. I just hope that if they do it, they do it in such a way that they look attractive way up there.

it BETTER end up more than 70 floors

Here's the "basic design concept."

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/12/10/nyregion/10TOWE.jpg

The basic design concept of the torqued tower with an open latticework top was offered in September 2002 by Guy Nordenson, the engineer working with David M. Childs on the design of the new Freedom Tower at the trade center site. Mr. Nordenson was part of a group that The New York Times Magazine assembled in 2002 to gather ideas about what might be built at ground zero.

Interesting! Looks like Turning Torso.

It looks like we won't be seeing a the new Freedom Tower today, the article below says hopefully this week.

NY POST

FEUDING WTC ARCHITECTS NEAR COMPROMISE

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/13476.htm

By WILLIAM NEUMAN

December 15, 2003 -- Warring architects Daniel Libeskind and David Childs are inching toward a compromise on the design of the Freedom Tower, and officials hope details can be finalized as early as today, sources said.

Gov. Pataki had initially set today as the deadline for the architects to present him with a fully realized scheme for the tower.

They'll fall short of that, but after days of intense negotiations, development officials hope they have been able to hammer out the outlines of an agreement.

"It's almost there," said a source close to the process. "The governor is pleased."

The sources were anxious about the fragility of a pact, given the animosity between the two sides.

If the deal holds, a public presentation of the design could come by the end of the week.

"Everybody's in sort of desperate desire to make a deal," said another source. "There's been some progress. They're trying to make a deal. The governor's office has been very active."

NY1

Architects Compromise On Design For WTC's Freedom Tower

DECEMBER 15TH, 2003

After months of vigorous debate, the two architects working on the design for the World Trade Center's new Freedom Tower have reached an agreement and will unveiled the design for the new structure on Friday.

The tower, which will dominate the rebuilt World Trade Center site, will incorporate design elements from both Daniel Libeskind and David Childs. At 1,776 feet, the tower will be the tallest building in the world when completed.

The structure will be topped with Libeskind's off-center spire, evoking the Statue of Liberty. But it will also incorporate Childs' cable and antenna complex at the top, and his wind turbines that will generate some of the building's power.

Libeskind, the site's master planner, and Childs, the lead design architect, have had an often-stormy partnership.

However, rebuilding officials and the governor's office brokered a compromise following a series of round-the-clock meetings.

In a statement released Monday, a representative of the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation said: "Thanks to an often spirited design effort between Childs and Libeskind, the Freedom Tower will rise as a new symbol of our nation's strength and resilience in the aftermath of terror."

The design for the Freedom Tower will be unveiling Friday in a joint presentation attended by Governor George Pataki, Mayor Michael Bloomberg and site developer Larry Silverstein.

And still, I am so nervous.

DAILY NEWS

Tower pact is a big deal
Ground Zero architects reach agreement at last

By MAGGIE HABERMAN

Architect Daniel Libeskind explains Ground Zero plan to Gov Pataki as Mayor Bloomberg looks on last February. Libeskind now has a deal with fellow architect David Childs.

The dueling architects of the soaring Freedom Tower have reached a compromise on the design, and their unified vision will be unveiled Friday, sources said yesterday.

Top aides to Gov. Pataki helped push Daniel Libeskind, whose master plan for Ground Zero was picked earlier this year, and architect David Childs, who works for developer Larry Silverstein, into an agreement.

One source said that in the new design, Childs made a few concessions to Libeskind, including scaling down the height of the spire, and the mass of the building. He also added a slanted roof so that the design will look more like Libeskind's original angular design, sources said.

But Childs was able to keep his idea for what will go in the open-area spire, including hundreds of feet of cables, trusses and wind-powered turbines that generate energy, another source said.

A fight between Libeskind and Childs went nuclear in the last two weeks, threatening to derail the project.

The source of the fight had been what the building's spire, which won't be occupied by offices, would look like. The lower part of the building is almost entirely Childs' work, the source said.

Lower Manhattan Development Corp. officials refused to elaborate on what the design will look like, saying in a statement only that the building would rise to 1,776 feet, as Libeskind proposed, and "incorporate cable technology ...and generate much of its own electricity," as Childs wanted.

Ed Hayes, Libeskind's lawyer, said only that the process "took a lot of hard work," but declined to give details. Childs couldn't be reached.

The deal came after days of secret meetings, including a particularly intense one Friday, when top Pataki aides John Cahill and Charles Gargano, and Port Authority executive director Joseph Seymour, tried to keep the project on track.

Libeskind had argued that Childs' plans didn't fit with his plan for the site. But sources in the Silverstein camp said that Childs had furiously redrawn the tower to please Libeskind, and that Libeskind would often agree to certain elements, only to change his mind later.

December 17, 2003

Compromise Leads Architect to Lower His Sights, and the Trade Center Tower
By DAVID W. DUNLAP

In the end, the magic number for resolving the design impasse over the Freedom Tower at the World Trade Center site turned out to be 276 feet.

That was how much the architect David M. Childs reduced the height of the tower he is designing for the developer Larry A. Silverstein, one of several gestures that allowed Mr. Childs's counterpart, Daniel Libeskind, to certify that the Freedom Tower would fit in with his overall master plan for the site.

But the compromise did not emerge until the final few hours before a deadline on Monday, after Gov. George E. Pataki jumped in as a referee and cheerleader between architects who were barely speaking to each other. He met with Mr. Childs on Friday, said others who attended the meeting, telephoned his encouragement for the redesign over the weekend and then put the matter to Mr. Libeskind.

Rather than describe the resulting design as a collaboration, the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation called it an "idea" by Mr. Libeskind that was "given form" by Mr. Childs. It will be unveiled on Friday by Mr. Pataki and Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg at Federal Hall National Memorial on Wall Street.

Mr. Pataki did not tell the architects how to design the tower, said those who heard the recent conversations, but made it plain that he expected them to meet the Monday deadline, which the governor set in a speech two months ago.

The design by Mr. Childs, a partner in Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, called for a hybrid tower of 68 occupied floors, with east and west facades curving gently to create a torqued effect. That would be topped by an enormous open-air structure supported on twin concrete cores studded with electricity-generating windmills and surrounded by a network of cables.

Mr. Childs proposed that the whole tower structure — enclosed and open-air — rise to 1,776 feet, the symbolic benchmark set by Mr. Libeskind's master plan.

But Mr. Libeskind, whose own version of the Freedom Tower had a slender spire at the 1,776-foot mark, worried that a structure almost 30 percent taller than the twin towers would be too massive and incongruent with his master plan.

"I want to build you a great tower, Governor," Mr. Childs was said to have told Mr. Pataki during their meeting in the governor's office, at 633 Third Avenue.

"Well, don't do it for me," Mr. Pataki answered. "Do it for the people we lost, so no one forgets what happened."

As described by those who have seen the compromise version, the tower structure would be 1,500 feet tall — 1,100 feet enclosed and 400 feet open — with a 276-foot spire to claim the symbolic height of 1776 feet, and an antenna reaching beyond that, perhaps to 2,000 feet.

Exactly where this hybrid will rank among the world's tallest structures remains to be seen.

Neither Mr. Libeskind nor Mr. Childs would comment yesterday. Mr. Pataki's office issued a statement saying simply that he "has been supportive of the process and the exchange of ideas" and "looks forward to the unveiling."

Well thats a nice kick in the nuts with regards to originality, greatness and pretty much everything that I was hoping for and NYC should stand for. Great Job officials.

I give up. All I can say is I hope the "structure" is asthetically pleasing because I doubt very much it will be the powerful, awe inspiring sky scraper(s) we were hoping for.

Mark

Well, windmills sound ecologically friendly, but they won't generate any power when there's no wind. So unless they can "store" excess power generated on windy days, that would make them very unreliable.

And I REALLY wonder what this will do to the tower's appearance! :?

Maybe these windmills are a tribute to Manhattans history?Weren't de dutch the guys that took this remarkable piece of land long ago? What about a wooden shoe at the entry and a tulip-like-antenna on top ? :D

anyway, I do not support these windmill thing. .

looking forward to friday!

Well, windmills sound ecologically friendly, but they won't generate any power when there's no wind. So unless they can "store" excess power generated on windy days, that would make them very unreliable.

and solar panels neither , they can "store" excess power of course:bash:

fu*k all of this, i will probably rant and rave, but 1100 feet of enclosed space sucks, too much decoration and symbolism here, i want something new, but let us build it.
Libeskind and childs can both suck a , well you know what, and get the fuk outta ny!
Jerks

This doesnt seem like good news :mad: I have to say, lets wait for the offical final design. My fingers are crossed ;)

Libeskind and Childs both suck as architects, but ultimately it's George Pataki who forced the design down both their throats, and through our throats in turn. He's the one who should be ousted from his pedestal most of all. A low-rise loving politician who cares little about how architects work and how skyscrapers benefit this great city simply can't be trusted. And why is he focused at all costs on breaking ground on this disgusting spire when the state capital Albany can't issue its annual budget on time?

NY1

Foundation Of Freedom Tower To Be Complete By Third Anniversary Of Attacks

DECEMBER 17TH, 2003

World Trade Center leaseholder Larry Silverstein says the foundation of the Freedom tower will be complete by the third anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

Silverstein addressed members of the New York Building Congress at a luncheon Wednesday, discussing redevelopment status at the site.

Silverstein says the Freedom Tower will stand 1,776 feet high as planned, but will only be occupied up to the 73rd floor.

He says all five buildings will be built according to the highest safety standards. Silverstein says building seven and the Freedom Tower will be financed by the insurance company.

“What we hope to do is to launch a tower for completion every year thereafter,” said Silverstein. “So with the completion of the Freedom Tower in the end of ‘08/beginning of ‘09, we hope to have the second tower beginning of 2010, and the third ‘11, and the fourth ‘12, and the fifth and final tower in ’13, approximately ten years from today. I promised the governor the next 10 years of my life, I'm 72 right now, after 82, I quit.”

On Friday morning, Governor George Pataki and Mayor Michael Bloomberg are scheduled to publicly unveil the final design for the Freedom Tower.

HEY I GIVE UP ON THIS. IM GOING TO WAIT FOR THE NEXT GREAT SPARK FOR NY, CAUSE THIS AINT IT! WHAT A F**KING SHAME. I HATE POLITICIANS!

F**K PATAKI! by the way this is post 500 , F**K PATAKI, AND SILVERSTEIN, CHILDS, AND LIBESKIND, FOSTER WHERE ARE YOU, HELP!

I wouldn't give up, if you don't like the design be heard!

This site is a BIG key and MAJOR to NYC, we can't let it go to waste!

We'll just have until tomorrow and see what they show us.

More descriptions...


Brooklyn Bridge inspired WTC plan
By Christopher Grimes in New York
Published: December 18 2003 18:11 | Last Updated: December 18 2003 18:11

Drawings of the main building on the former World Trade Center site, which are to be unveiled on Friday for the first time, will show a modernist structure inspired by two New York landmarks: the Brooklyn Bridge and the Statue of Liberty.

A latticework of cables, reminiscent of the suspension system that made the Brooklyn Bridge an engineering marvel in the 19th century, will crown the 1,776-foot building.

Inside the cable structure will be a series of windmills to capture the strong gusts from the nearby Hudson River and convert them into electricity for the building, according to people involved in the redevelopment process.

A spire rising from the top is meant to evoke the torch in the raised hand of the Statue of Liberty, according to spare details provided by the Lower Manhattan Development Corp.

The windmills could be a selling point for the design, which undoubtably will be debated as fiercely as proposals for a memorial and the site plan have been. Using wind power could make a resonant political point about lessening reliance on imported fuel. But the windmills could also raise questions about noise and whether they will pose a threat to birds.

The design is the result of an uneasy collaboration between Daniel Libeskind, the architect overseeing the layout of the 16-acre World Trade Center site, and David Childs, the veteran Manhattan architect hired by the leaseholder, Larry Silverstein, to come up with a workable blueprint for what will be the world's tallest building.

Conflicts over the design stalled the process several times since the two men were ordered to work together in July.

Mr Libeskind had favored an asymmetrical building, which Mr Childs opposed on the grounds that it did not conform to the New York grid. Finally, New York Governor George Pataki intervened by setting a deadline of December 15 - which was extended slightly as the two architects wrestled over last-minute details.

Mr Libeskind won the competition in February to design the World Trade Center site plan. For most of the public, it seemed that Mr Libeskind's famous renderings - including the signature structure, which was dubbed "Freedom Tower" - would eventually become part of the New York skyline.

But Mr Silverstein, who stands to collect billions of dollars in insurance, has brought in Mr Childs and other renowned architects - including Sir Norman Foster of the UK - to design the actual commercial buildings on the site.

Mr Libeskind has been dubbed "collaborating architect" and has been reassured that his concepts will be incorporated into final designs of all five buildings planned for the site.

i shouldnt post it, but ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhharghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
there better be some major improvements, this sounds very .. no word for it yet, ill have to get even angrier and invent a word to describe what this sounds like!

December 19, 2003


The public will get its first glimpse of the 1,776-foot Freedom Tower's final design at 8:05 on this morning's "Today Show." And like everything else about Ground Zero, even that decision involved a nasty backroom dustup.

Earlier, reporters had been told that the first public viewing of the revised tower design would be at 9 a.m. today during a news conference at Federal Hall, a few blocks from the World Trade Center site.

well, any news? :bash:

Yes:

http://picserver.student.utwente.nl/getpicture.php?id=579464

Not as bad as I thought

Okay, at least that tower is really tall.

What about observation decks? Did anyone say anything on this yet?

Mark

^ are you fucking kidding me????


the tower is only a few feet taller than the old towers and with see through lattice work. this is simply unnacceptable:mad: :bleep:

^the observation deck is onlt 900-1000 feet up....the old towers' were 1310 feet up:mad:

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/12/19/international/tower2-184.jpg

horrible

The "freedom Tower" shown here is only about 1,070 feet and 70 floors tall, with wind power turbines (a dumb gimmick) meshed within the latticework structure above the main section and an antenna on top. Think of it as a WTC North Tower whose third section above the 75th floor sky lobby has been eviscerated of concrete floors and turned into a latticework structure. On top of that its surrounded by lower buildings no higher than 60 floors tall, and get progressively shorter. It's simply unacceptable.

Quote from a New York Times article this morning:
But Childs, who was appointed by leaseholder Larry Silverstein, succeeded in including a lattice structure filled with energy-generating windmills at the top of the building. Childs likened the suspension elements of the new design to the Brooklyn Bridge, with the bottom of the building "torqued or twisted."

Lattice structure and wind mills remind me more of the "Think Team" proposal and of this: http://www.baunetz.de/arch/expo/images/EXholland3zo.jpg

Urgh... could these designs get any worse? :puke:

Heyyy... anyone up for tarring and feathering? :D

Here's another angle (AP):
http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,316777,00.jpg

From The Associated Press/Lower Manhattan Development Corp.:

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/12/19/nyregion/tower.2.450.jpg

It looks terrible im very dissapointed:(

Well, it sure as heck AIN'T no Empire State!

Yeah, it's slender and soars well, and it has a nice, shiney glass curtain wall that should really dance with the light...

BUT:

The curves in the facade as it attempts to do a corkscrew number are not at all graceful; a flat roof at a crazy angle is worse than a horizontal flat roof, and that lattice work gee gaw whimmydiddle looks like it's trying to do a corkscrew number too, and it's just as ungraceful as the lower part of the facade.

The whole effect is simply...well, it certainly lacks...Sheesh!!!

:bleep: :rant:

In spite of its height, the tower comes across as slouching and slipshod because its lines don't seem to have any pride or elegance at all.

And only 70 or so stories, just over 1,000 ft. of the structure?
I can still hear the architects mumbling to each other, "Well, if we build anything really tall and impressive, nobody will want to work there, becuase terrorists will probably take it out too, and our insurance rates will go through the roof, so maybe if we just build a nice, safe, short, bland tower, and put a great big geegaw-whimmydiddle on top, nobody will notice how scared we are...."

And the other towers are, just as before, a cluster of icebergs huddling together; they don't even attempt to soar, and once again, those strange roofs...

Well, I don't care how tall that whatsit is, the Empire State and Chrysler will still be the true stadt kronen (city crowns) of the NYC skyline!! I was really hoping til the bitter end that we'd see something worthy of being another city crown, but no such luck...

**SIGH**

I think it's not that bad, actually quite good. :)

I wouldn't like this to get built.

The things I believe...(before we get ahead of ourselves.)

Nobody liked the Twin Towers when they were built.

Sometimes, certain designs have to "earn respect" from New Yorkers (like the towers) over time.

Although not instantly likeable, maybe when built, it will bring out different opinions in us.

:moods:

Here's the official Freedom Tower thread, you can vote if you like it or not here and make comments and engage in a dicussion about it.

Here it is...

http://picserver.student.utwente.nl/getpicture.php?id=579464

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/12/19/international/tower-big.jpg

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/12/19/arts/tower.slideone.childs.jpg

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/12/19/nyregion/tower.1.650.jpg

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/12/19/nyregion/tower.2.450.jpg

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/12/19/nyregion/tower.3.650.jpg

http://www.nynewsday.com/media/photo/2003-12/10685885.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20031219/capt.xnyr60212191551.attacks_freedom_tower_xnyr602.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20031219/capt.xnyr60112191553.attacks_freedom_tower_xnyr601.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20031219/capt.sge.qcb14.191203160613.photo00.default-287x355.jpg

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20031219/i/r3417080362.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20031219/capt.xnyr60312191605.freedom_tower_xnyr603.jpg

What do you think?

the tower is ok, the problem is the location.

The WTC area needs 1 or 2 bigger towers



i vote no

Tower looks alright,but the new WTC shouldn't look alright....it has to look GOOD! And 2 of those tall towers! But this tower isn't even that tall!!!!! This location deserves more then this.

Yes, but the top could have been better. It would look better if it was glass all the way up to the spire.

the top is :puke:

Who ARE The TOWERS?????!:baaa:

I voted no because I dont like the top bit, it should look like a scraper all the way up with glass and no metal grid top, even if the floors stop at 70.:bleep:

I have a feeling that if this gets built it will be a bit like the Pompidou Centre in Paris - there will be endless jokes about it looking OK when they take the scaffolding down.

Committee design in action - the commercial manager wants as much lettable office space as possible, the public relations manager wants the tallest tower in the world, the engineering manager wants to maximise structural strength, the safety manager wants plenty of escape routes and the chairman wants it to be 1776' high as he doesn't like the British.

So you end up with a tower that will look great provided you have low cloud cover. The old New York skyscrapers may not have been that tall but at least they knew how to put a decent top on a building.

The design is nice, but not more than that. I was hoping for something better for this location.

Of course especially the height is disappointing. If you look at the building itself, not the rediculous top port, it's only slightly higher than many other Lower Manhatten skyscrapers. The Twin Towers were ugly, but at least they stood out in the skyline.

From my point of view,it's horrible!! i don't like the tower,and the top neither (actually it's the worst part,when suppossedly it should be the best one becuase it's going to be kind of a symbol of the city,which can be seen from any parts of the city...)
I am very disappointed...I expected something that looked more like a TOWER,not a weird column with a horrible top....old WTC was much better no doubt about it....

Well, everyone's heard by now of the unveiling of the new design of the 'Freedom Tower' proposed for the World Trade Center site, this time by SOM's David Childs. Despite the new rendering it still sucks and deserves to be bashed, and for good reason. The '1,776-foot Freedom Tower' is essentially a 70-floor ordinary office tower with a glass facade rising no more than 1,076 feet to the highest floor, with latticework for the next 300 feet (containing wind turbines within the skeleton, I'm serious.) and a useless spire for the next 400 feet. In short, it's a replica of the WTC North Tower that has been stripped clean of all the floors above the 75-floor sky lobby and eviscerated into a latticework structure, leaving only the exterior and the antenna intact. That's essentially what the Freedom Tower still is. All the smaller buildings just east of where the authorities want to build the Freedom Tower and the 30-foot deep pit next to it are no better.

If this is the best that today's architects can come up with, then I fear for the future. Libeskind's deconstructionism, Silverstein's 70-floor height limits, and Child's mediocrity are all sickening. But the biggest blame lies with George Pataki and all his Albany cronies, whose fear of heights and anything resembling human ambition is only matched by its fear of public accountability and resistance to change on virtually all issues. They're clearly afflicted with the disease of PC and NIMBYism, which has clearly hurt the state's potential for economic growth and new ambitions.

There will be more angry rants from me on this matter.

Agglomeration

This tower would be mediocre at best anywhere in the world. But as the replacement for the Twin Towers and the supposed symbol of our nation's moving past 9/11, it's just insulting.

Liebskind, Childs, Pataki and Silverstein should all be prosecuted for treason against NYC and sent to the firing squads.

This building.......


Sucks

What happened to a building that makes a statment on the NYC skyline. That building sure as heck does not do it! It is far from doing anything for the skyline. If anything, it clashes with the other buildings so much the tall-ness of the building will be lost.


That spire. OH gosh. 63 floors of acutal space? That is nothing but a joke! A wire frame and then some big metal pole....

They need building!


:mad:

It sucks, they wanted to give something to the people of ny? sounds more like they get what they want for themselves, childs gets his windmills, libeskind gets his lame spire, does anyone else want that??> THIS IS A F**KING JOKE, F**K ALL OF THESE F**KING AS*HO*ES, ahhhh, *twitch* * twitch*

im furious with this, its gonna be real messed up if it gets built, were never gonna shake this one guys, something drastick needs to be done! Save what can we do.

F**K THAT!!! I HATE IT, ITS DISTURBING, I HATE PATAKI SOOOOO MUCH, THERES NOTHING GREAT ABOUT THIS GUYS, TRAGICK! WHAT A CROCK. I AM SO MAD! WHATEVER TIME FOR LIQOUR.

i really like it, gorgeous. its better than the twin towers. one step closer to my dream of a crystal city. kind of like some views of vancouver.

when will it be done? ill be on a plane to new york in two eagle leaps.

Details:

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/net/20031219/capt.apfreedomtower.jpg

Comparisons:

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/net/20031219/capt.apfreedomtower1.jpg

ewww! I'm still confident that object will not be constructed and the people of new york will get the landmark skyscraper they deserve. This is even worse then the previous plans.

jeee, the skyscrapers.com website has the wrong info for this one. They have it 2000ft to spire and 1776ft to roof.
It should be 1776ft to spire and 1500ft to roof of lattice and 1076ft to enclosed rooftop.
I actually love it. The top 400ft houses windmills which is a superb innovative idea for the super structure!
you yankees should be happy with enormous stucture!
your so picky?:D

I am curious to know why five of us voted they like this tower...comments please?

As for me, I am still wondering how a 276ft spire is supposed to remind me of the Liberty statue?

i made a new one with 2 spires

it still looks fine with 2 towers

http://picserver.student.utwente.nl/getpicture.php?id=581979

Front page newspapers...

http://www.nypost.com/images/front122003.gif

http://www.nydailynews.com/ips_rich_content/555-FRONT_BIG.jpg

The Freedom Tower design is absolutely great for the city of New York and the United States and not to mention the world

http://www.msnusers.com/3re6m269krbasjl9237chubi37/Documents/capt.xnyr30412191325.attacks%5Ffreedom%5Ftower%5Fxnyr304

This design is nothing but horrible. A tower with a wire cage on top and then a metal pole that steals the "Word Tallest Building" title is not what New York City is. NYC is the city that does things over the top. That means making it an actual building that soars up into the sky and inspires you to be more than a man, a New Yorker. The design of this building needs to be done OVER again. What is there now is nothing short of crap. That is not a skyscraper. That is a low-rise by NYC standards with a wire cage on top that keeps in the true spirit. The metal pole might as well be a pole through the heart of NYC that says "We lost." This design sucks.


I also posted that on the NYC Post's website!
Here! (http://www.webforums.com/forums/f-read/msa154.62.html)

I actually saw the video footage of the launch on my local news bulletin, and its like when the curtain was unveiled, there seems to be a hesitation before the applause rang out...

Considering how uninspiring the model looks, its kinda wierd watching how those members are gawking at it as they crowd round the tower.

Sh*t building!! Nothing special!! It looks like a huge shadow of the statue of Liberty! BTW, Freedom Tower is a horrible name!!

Oh Well !

At least its mostly glass this time !

It certainly looks better than the "eyesore" Twin Towers !

cheers

lozza

huaiwei,

Why I think I like it:

1. It's design is shouting, "Take pictures of me!" i.e. I seems to morph at different angles. People are going have a field day with this.

2. It looks like a beacon. Like you will be able to see it no matter where you are in manhattan. Like it will be "drawing" people to it.

3. The twist. Its like a pre-emptive "move" to get out of the way of certain "things."

4. If the twin towers were an "anchor" to manhattan this is the "lighthouse" for everyone to see.

I read somewhere that the top will have the two blue beams of light for viewing too. As well as other lighting effects.

These are just some things off the top of my head...On the other side, I am thinking...How the hell am I supporting anything besides the Twin Towers.

Try to keep an open mind guys and gals,

Mark

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/12/19/arts/tower.slideone.childs.jpg

HOLY CRAP! HE'S AN ALIEN!!!

I dont like it. Simple. The tower must have a viewing deck at least 1500ft dont you agree ???? and whats with this Lattice shit???? I like the spire but please no lattice work we want a propher scraper no a bloody broadcast mast :)

Sorry... it's a little bit on the hideous side. However, I'll reserve my judgement to the final building as renderings often don't do a building justice.

I like it.

Why does a skyscraper have to be all floors and nothing else? The lattice like top is a unique creation that just wouldn't happen on any other skyscraper project. When built it will look absolutely stunning especially when lit up at night and it will be a true landmark building. It will provide a beacon to the skyline in more ways than the twin towers ever did.

I get the feeling that some people especially from NY think nothing is good enough for the WTC site. Interesting that the twin towers were heavily criticised at the beginning but came to be regarded with affection and they were architecturally dire. This is far superior in many ways and taller as well.....so it only has 70 floors and not 110....so bloody what!

Originally posted by larven
This is far superior in many ways and taller as well.....so it only has 70 floors and not 110....so bloody what!


Fortunately, your opinion is even less relavent than mine is, due to where you live...

Eef, you need a brain scan if you find that attractive, I mean, come on!

http://picserver.student.utwente.nl/getpicture.php?id=581979

now THAT is what im talkin about!

Get rid of those other towers to the right, and incorporate that space into a second twin of the tallest tower.

That is starting to get worthy of this site. One tower- will look alright.

But i still there are better designs possible than this. Doesnt ground zero deserve the best?

The height of the tallest "commercial" floor is actually at 1150 feet, not the figure previouly mentioned above. Also, there will be more than one observation deck. David Childs indicated that there will be an observation floor at approximately 1500 feet. Unfortunately, though Childs also stated that the plans currently call for the elevators to briefly pause at the 1362 ft level, the level of the previous WTC observation deck. The pause, like the name, seems rediculous.

It could have been better, but I like the current design better than the last one

Originally posted by 3tmk

It could have been better, but I like the current design better than the last one

My sentiments. This is actually elegant, but I can understand why people hate it, because it does not replace the sheer masculinity and height of the old WTC.

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/12/25/nyregion/26TICK.chart.jpg

Actually, I quite like that two tower version.

Even though I beleive this design is total crap (what did you expect Silverstein is cheap). BTW Silverstein prances around saying hell make sure WTC gets rebuilt yadayadayada but the fact is insurance companies are paying for it ALL thus the cheapster isnt spending a dime... Anyways this will only spurr those with large egos (cough cough donald trump) to build taller. Just as a side note I happen to knwo Donald Trump and Silvertein arent on the best of terms so I KNOW Donald is just itching to build one taller to 1 up him. WE can only hope.

Its going to look soo much better when its built, trust me;)

http://www.enr.com/images/031229-09A.jpg

One would expect much more for a World Trade Center reconstruction, but if you think about it, if it was designed for anywhere else it would be lauded as a spectacular, modern design... well, maybe not with it going up to 70 floors, but you see my point.

The design does not come close to giving the effect that a pair of twins would have, but at least it has a roof height that could become the world's tallest, and an observation deck at the top. I wish it had all floors to the top, but better this way than a spire.

i see no observation deck at 1500'
http://www.enr.com/images/031229-09A.jpg

If it weren't for the Port Authority/Silverstein's insistence on having the same # of square feet as the last WTC, there might be enough space for a second tower. They should be where the other building are slated to go up, then use the space where they want FT to be for a performance arts complex. There are other areas in NYC where more office buildings could be built, like the West Side.

Here's the latest elevation. The 1776 foot height is clearly marked with an antenna on top of it. It also notes an obs platform on top of the central cores at the base of the hat truss.

http://www.theslatinreport.com/1224stack.jpg.jpg

Here's the site plan
http://www.theslatinreport.com/siteplan.jpg

Accompanying article:

FREE FOR ALL?
Peter Slatin


Last Friday, the world got a glimpse of something like architecture when it saw, unveiled at Federal Hall in lower Manhattan, sparkling renderings of a soaring, turning, tapering tower etched against an achingly beautiful blue sky - almost as blue and deep as it was on September 11. These images indicate something surprising: the possibility that from the too-watched cauldron of discord that has been bubbling away on this design recipe may have emerged something better than the ingredients that went into it. The tower's slender, twisting profile and light, reflective façade are a refreshing change from the heavy twin spikes that were used to nail down the Battery previously.

The thing itself actually seems to defy the miseries of its creation. Nothing could dishonor the memory of fallen heroes more than the naked power-and-money grab that opened its latest chapter last week at Federal Hall in Lower Manhattan. With the unveiling of the so-called final design for the so-called Freedom Tower, Gov. George Pataki cemented the linkage of the tower's construction timetable to the presidential election campaign of 2004, by insisting on a cornerstone-laying at the time of the Republican National Convention in Manhattan.

As the governor said in his remarks introducing the design, "Freedom will always triumph over terror." That is hopefully true, but the irony of a sitting, freely elected governor wielding his power to exploit horrific memories in the name of democracy - in order to hold on to that power - was probably not lost on him.

Then there's Larry Silverstein, flush with cash from receiving an 80% payback of his and his investors' equity in the Trade Center lease, nonetheless remaining in control of the lease and the development. Other developers must be spending a fair amount of time trying to figure out how they can emulate that accomplishment. Silverstein must still be credited for seizing on the rebuilding of ground zero as his legacy and for pursuing it unrelentingly.

Equally unrelenting have been the pronouncements and tantrums of master plan architect Daniel LIbeskind. His rhetoric, which seemed to reflect his grasp of the awesome task he wanted to take on when he unveiled his proposal for the site one year ago, has become tiresomely self-referential and jingoistic. David Childs has managed, on the other hand, to withstand an ongoing critical assault on his architecture and still make way for creativity, whether or not he participated in it.

From this group, and the other major players involved - Mayor Bloomberg, Joseph Seymour of the Port Authority, John Whitehead and Kevin Rampe of the Lower Manhattan Development Corp. - nothing in the way of strong, imaginative leadership in the public interest can be easily discerned.

The surprise hero and potential goat of this drama has been and remains the public. Despite being so near to the distorted planning, design and selection process, and yet so distant from and disenfranchised by it, residents of the city and beyond have pushed patiently, and waited, uncertainly, for light to be revealed.

It's too early to say that their patience has been rewarded. After all, the overwhelming gravitational pull exerted by politics, money and ego - which shows no sign of letting up - signals that nothing has changed post-unveiling, and that the process will continue to be a nasty one. But there is something of the sausage-maker's credo in Freedom Tower: don't worry about how it got made; only hope that, while reminding us of a day of terror and tragedy, it illuminates a brighter present and future.

Yet it is not as simple as that. For someone who is generally inclined to think that moving forward is a good thing, that delay and denial often spring from a misplaced sense of nostalgia and an inherent fear of change, the rush to rebuild at this scale has been repugnant from the first. It's not the question of whether or not ground zero is "hallowed"; it is certainly a national battleground as much as Gettysburg or Bunker Hill, and it will always be that, no matter what rises there. So the question is, simply, what is this rush all about? What are we frantically trying to recover that cannot wait until we understand it better?

More info on the height of the building...


Freedom Tower Engineer Wants Turbines To Double as Prayer Wheels
Wind and a Prayer
by Erik Baard
January 7 - 13, 2004
Village Voice

The shining tower planned for the gawked-upon gap of the World Trade Center may be the first skyscraper to pray for its city. The designer of the wind turbines that will occupy the top of the "Freedom Tower" wants the rotors to serve as prayer wheels, cycling through mantras of peace.

Tibetan Buddhists write the mantra "Om Mani Padme Hum" many times over on thin papers and enclose them within cylinders called mani, which are also inscribed with the mantra. These spin on an axle, continuously repeating the prayer. The words aren't directly translatable, but they invoke blessings from Chenrezig, the embodiment of compassion.

That tradition could be a starting point for a spiritual gesture in the same airy reaches once filled with death, according to engineer Guy Battle, who's overseeing the wind farm for the planned Freedom Tower. Architect David M. Childs of Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP, master planner Daniel Libeskind, and developer Larry Silverstein haven't yet ruled on the proposal, and no artists have been commissioned to explore it.

The turbines are to produce a fifth of the electricity needed by the building. "They are simple generators, but they can be somehow linked with the memorial. People could even put prayers on the propellers," Battle says. A reflection of mourning, forgiveness, and hope open to all faiths and ethical traditions would give real meaning to the skyscraper's somewhat stilted name.

Imagine if, from miles away in any direction, you could look to that skyscraper and know that within its ethereal, translucent summit was a testament to our better selves, our shared prayers. That is the architecture of who we are as a people. And coincidentally, the northwesterly winds turning those prayer wheels would follow the same glinting line of the Hudson River that the planes of 9-11 used as a flight path to murder. It's the kind of gentle defiance that would drive Al Qaeda mad.

Leaders of the rebuilding process have emerged from storied grapples over the shape of the tapering structure. The reported debates between Childs and Libeskind about the building's proportions comically reprise the tale of how Sen no Rikyu, the 16th-century tea master, was tested by a carpenter over exactly where a flower basket should be placed. So it seems somehow fitting that such a humble, quiet idea inspired by Buddhism and entering so late would bring an apt element of remembrance, and restore to the urban spire a spiritual and aspirational force.

Of course, the prayer wheels would be an unorthodox interpretation of an ancient practice. Such wheels, or mani, are usually vertical, while the turbines would be horizontal. Nor are they usually as hard to see as what Battle proposes. "But the intention is a large part of the process, so if your intention is genuine, then the slight variations in the execution of the device are less important," says Ganden Thurman, director of special projects at Tibet House.

The metropolitan cynic is tempted to dismiss such sentiments as hokey, but at some level, any sincere gesture of love is. Many residents of Lower Manhattan have remarked that the twin towers were a familiar presence, felt over the shoulder even when not seen. The thrill of the new won't fill that void for long. Downtown planners must create a symbol that earns enduring affection by not just building high, but by giving a sense of renewal to those who look up.

Such an invisible aspect wouldn't force any change in the appearance of the Freedom Tower or the contested 16-acre site. "I think the final form will be very close to what you saw at the unveiling. The broad strokes will be the same," says Kenneth Lewis, SOM's project manager. The building will rise from the street grid and torque to minimize wind resistance. Despite its glassy skin, an exoskeleton of diagonal supports and a concrete core will lend the building rigidity. A lacy truss of cables, which Childs says was inspired by the Brooklyn Bridge, will characterize the upper portion where the turbines are to be housed. Workers in the tower's 2.6 million square feet of office space will be protected by fireproof safe havens and filtering systems to guard against chemical and biological attacks.

Mocked as everything from a martini toothpick to a toy soldier's feather, the spire and antenna have been thorny issues. Skyscraper architect Cesar Pelli has consistently argued that such towers should have a spire, that the tapering profile is intrinsic to the medium. Yet after viewing the Freedom Tower, he told the Voice, "I think they should get rid of the spire. It detracts from the design, makes it lose strength."

The antenna will likely bring the entire structure to 2,000 feet, the limit imposed by the Federal Aviation Administration, Lewis said. It needs to be that high to widen the television broadcast area. Even PBS has joined this cause, because the poor can't afford cable educational programs. But at the 1,776-foot mark the materials used to build the spire will change, and it will be illuminated. "The 1,776-foot mark will definitely be acknowledged. The bottom part of the antenna will be like the Statue of Liberty's torch and the upper part like the flame," he said.

It's doubtful that the Statue of Liberty echo will resonate much, over time. In truth, Liberty Enlightening the World already has its counterpoint across the harbor in Battery Park City. The comparatively small, tiered hexagon of the Museum of Jewish Heritage urges contemplation of the genocide unleashed by intolerance and the achievements that are possible for even a minority community when freedoms are secure. But the spire's offset placement atop the Freedom Tower will be distinctive—centering it would push the design toward mimicry, and lopping it off would leave a silhouette that's unjustifiably banal. As Skyscraper Museum director Carol Willis says, "I think that its slender proportions and pointing to sky really satisfy the definition of a skyscraper as a romantic notion."

And height, in this case, does matter. "As architects, we don't talk about designing the world's tallest building," Lewis says, but there's an undeniable groundswell of desire to see the Freedom Tower become the world's pinnacle.

If only for the moment. In a stark reminder of the ways of this world, the ecologically friendly Freedom Tower, even if recognized as the world's tallest by the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat, will be closely bracketed by two monuments to oil power. For now, the title belongs to the Petronas Towers, designed by Pelli for the Petroliam Nasional Berhad, the national oil company of Malaysia. Upcoming is the Burj Dubai in the United Arab Emirates, which breaks ground this month and is slated for completion by 2009. The latter tower is also being built by SOM, and will be "comfortably taller" than anything else in the world, according to the firm.

The Burj Dubai derives its graceful symmetry from a six-petaled desert flower. Other examples of the newest generation of record-setting skyscrapers, like the bamboo-stalk-inspired Taipei Financial Center, have eschewed the boxy international style to reflect local cultures and organic forms. But perhaps the unseen prayer wheels will allow the Freedom Tower, as no building ever has, to speak profoundly for, and of, the people of its city.

Here's the latest elevation. The 1776 foot height is clearly marked with an antenna on top of it. It also notes an obs platform on top of the central cores at the base of the hat truss.

JM: Thats great news the Obs will be so high, however, how do you think people will get passed the turbines and "open air lattice work" to get up there?

Mark

Originally posted by mzelonski

JM: Thats great news the Obs will be so high, however, how do you think people will get passed the turbines and "open air lattice work" to get up there?

Mark
The concrete cores are hollow and contain elevators and stairwells.

Gday Guys

I don't know what all the negative fuss is about, :hmm:

I think it will look fantastic ! :colgate:

cheers

lozza:dooby:

I would like to see the tower as shown in the movie Freejack with Emilio Estevez. NYC in 2012

Yes Im slightly warming to the latest design now I see a nice viewing observatory :)

better than libeskind's proposal,but not so much...

There are some very cool, very large animations of the Freedom Tower. The night lighting is particularly cool.

http://www.som.com/press_release/Animated%20Night%20View%20of%20the%20Statue%20of%20Liberty.wmv

http://www.som.com/press_release/Animated%20View%20from%20above%20the%20Hudson%20River.wmv

http://www.som.com/press_release/Animated%20View%20from%20Brooklyn%20Bridge.wmv

Those are really cool, JMGarcia! Intresting to see the towers in what it might feel like to be by them.

Those look nice guys and girls. This plan will work fine.

Listen, living in New York myself, I loved those towers with all my heart. However, as everyone knows, there were many drawbacks to them. On the brightside, we now have a chance to fix.

First: The city grid. Extremely alkward setup because the massive towers were in the middle of everything.

Second: Two towers too much? Maybe, at least energy wise...something like between the two of them they could power a small city!? They were a micro city!

Third: Downtown was a wind tunnel. It really was.

These are the common problems that plagued the towers from day one.

Now, (again if there is a brightside here it is) we have a chance to refine downtown.

I hope I dont get blasted for this post :guns1:

Just a side thought but I think they should have some kind of seperate thing for the rescue workers. Also the place should be "guarded" by US Marines like at the White House. They look emaculate and to me it would add a sense of security and class even though they, for the most part, are purely for decoration.

Forgot to add this: JMGarcia those clipa are pretty nifty. Is the building really supposed to be lit up like that? With all the changes and progression of the light scheme or will it remain a fixed scheme?

Originally posted by FerrariEnzo

Forgot to add this: JMGarcia those clipa are pretty nifty. Is the building really supposed to be lit up like that? With all the changes and progression of the light scheme or will it remain a fixed scheme?

I haven't scene anything about the lighting other than that video. Maybe they'll do different things on different nights or maybe a special occassions like they do with the Empire State Building.

I'm sorry but I've seen 14 year olds design better buildings.

Well, its not that bad, as some describe it to be, but i agree its not the most outstanding either. But then, who can really judge a design to be "the ABSOLUTE best", its really a matter of taste, and i think this one will, as some have said, be a brilliant (re)addition to the NYC skyline upon completion:cool:

It was also interesting to hear about that Prayer in a wind thing, and the night lighting effects on the tower also look amazing!

I was hoping that they would rebuild the towers the way they were but just raise them up to 1600 feet. With all this 1776 feet stuff going around maybe they should do that too.

The way the WTC was an American flat top, no cheating skyscraper design. These new ones look ugly. When I look at the NYC skyline I want to see two big blocks towering over lower Manhattan.

":puke:"

i say build that and new york won't be new york any more!! :'( :'( :'(:bleep: :bleep: :bleep: :bleep: :bleep:

Yuk.
Don't let them built this.

NY needs two imposing monsters like the old WTC was to really fill in the skyline- or one super super tall (not this one).

It needs to be higher and less shitty.

Stop over - reacting. The new WTC will be fine.

NY Times:

ARCHITECTURE: SEEING THE FUTURE

Beginning on Wednesday an eight-foot high, three-dimensional scale model of the Freedom Tower, scheduled to be the first building to rise at ground zero, will be on view at the Center for Architecture, 536 La Guardia Place. Designed by Skidmore, Owings & Merrill for Silverstein Properties, the model is the centerpiece of a free exhibition, "Rethinking the Skyline: Rebuilding the City." The Center for Architecture, sponsored by the New York Chapter of the American Institute of Architects, is open 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. Monday through Friday and 10 a.m. to 2 p.m. on Saturday.

The governor should refuse the Freedom Tower and replace them with these :)

http://www.teamtwintowers.org/southwestelevation.jpg

TTT is doing some good work and is going to release that plan into the public soon...


my love for the gardner plan is stronger than my hate for the freedom tower

Newsday

Secondary observation deck to rise 1,500 feet above ground zero

By JENNIFER FRIEDLIN
Associated Press Writer

February 24, 2004, 10:20 PM EST

NEW YORK -- Visitors who take an elevator some 1,500 feet above ground zero will one day gaze at the city's skyline from an observation deck near the spire of the Freedom Tower, the building's architect said Tuesday.

David Childs, the lead architect of the building planned to replace the trade center, said the 1,776-foot skyscraper will have two observation decks _ one at the top of the 70-story office tower. From there, he said, a separate elevator will take visitors "up to the very top of the building."

He said the second deck would either be at the base of the spire, which Childs has likened to the Statue of Liberty's torch, or within the maze of cables and energy-generating turbines above the office space.

Childs spoke at the Center for Architecture Tuesday evening as he and site developer Larry Silverstein unveiled a 9-foot-tall scale model of the Freedom Tower. The model, which was first unveiled last month, will sit in the Center for Architecture through May.

Silverstein called the proposed tower "spectacular" and said it embodied American determination.

Construction of the Freedom Tower, which officials say would become the world's tallest building, is expected to begin late this summer. The tower is scheduled for completion in 2009.

Childs said plans were on schedule, but that he still was working to resolve technical issues, including refining the design of the slope of the tower's roof to prevent snow and ice from falling off it and injuring people below. He said he is still negotiating the exact placements of broadcast antennas to be encased in the tower's spire.

NOTE: 1500 feet = 457 meters

Team Towers plan looks dead now then :no:

Model pics by NYguy:

http://www.pbase.com/image/26405379/large.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/26405382/large.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/26405398/large.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/26405410/large.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/26405458/large.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/26405473/large.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/26405479/large.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/26405486/large.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/26405499/large.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/26405501/original.jpg

All pics by NYguy.

Boxes are sexy....

that is not a box...and that is not sexy.


It looks like a box that hit the ground going 5000 mph and got a mushed up at the bottom.

Donald Trump from Larry King Live on CNN:

CALLER: ...And secondly, the other question is, have you got anything to do or going to have anything to do with the new twin towers?

TRUMP: Well, the second question, no. It's in the hands of a man named Larry Silverstein, who's a friend of mine, who's a great developer in New York and a really good guy. And I hate the design, and I don't think Larry likes the design. It was foisted upon him. It's a 50-story building that looks like it's 120 stories. It's a skeleton. And that's the last thing we need in New York is a skeleton of -- representing the World Trade Center. I think that it is not an appropriate design. I don't like it. But Larry's a good developer. He'll get it built, I think. And it's tough. You know, it depends on the market. The market in New York is not particularly...

Source: http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0402/27/lkl.00.html

More photos from Derek2k3 posted at Wired New York.

http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/Derek2k3/Picture_1026.sized.jpg

http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/Derek2k3/Picture_1012.sized.jpg

http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/Derek2k3/Picture_1015.sized.jpg

http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/Derek2k3/Picture_1017.sized.jpg

Ill gotta tell ya. The more I see the Tower the more I like it. They should move the spire to the center though. Without a doubt.
Evoke the the Empire State Building.

I have built a first paper model of the Freedom Tower! do you want some photos??

Foster And Partners project and Freedom Tower!!

http://www.bodynet.org/imm_forum/20040305145604.jpg

http://www.bodynet.org/imm_forum/20040305145700.jpg

nice shots--->>>>>>

This has got to be the ugliest thing i think i have ever seen, it makes the Tolworth Tower look impressive.It doesnt seem to represent anything to me except a set of unbalanced offset ugly buildings! Glad its not my city! It will do absolutely nothing for the skyline! Whats the point of having a spire that high where there used to be two roofs.No sense of size or scale!


LIBESKIND SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wish I could argue with you, but...your right.

If it helps at all though. Libeskind didn't come up with the Freedom Tower, the public was just rused into thinking he did. Direct your anger toward names like Childs and Silverstein.

mark

I was just reading that construction of the skyscrapers at ground zero could be severly delayed.

aparently nyc gave the green light (march 8) for 3 low-rise buildings (shops) along church street, where some of the skyscrapers are planned. the three buildings are so called "taxpayers" and will be demolished again, before construction of the towers (2009 at the earliest, according to the article). it also says all towers are affected, including the freedom tower and a foster tower plus a tower desiged by some japanese architect.

yea, not to mention that if larry silverstein doesnt win his lawsuit (the one stating that Sept. 11 was 2 seperate attacks) the money will not be there thus hindering constructing even furthur!

mark

NY Times

High Anxiety

March 14, 2004

By JAMES GLANZ

Right now, the designers of the Freedom Tower are struggling to master three colossal forces that are at work in the stark, empty sky above the World Trade Center site: gravity, wind and, perhaps most formidably, fear.

Any architect or engineer who works on a tall structure is morally and professionally obligated to become something of a safety obsessive. The steel and concrete of every Manhattan skyscraper has to resist hurricane-force winds, for example, as well as the downward pull of the Earth. But only the Freedom Tower will rise over a patch of ground that is forever shaken with the terror and paranoia of the worst building catastrophe in the history of the planet. As with the very first generation of skyscrapers, the work will have to be so visibly solid, so secure, that it will convince an anxious public to step into the building. After all, those who enter will not only be haunted by what occurred at the site in the past; they will also be apprehensive about what could happen again.

Last December, the twisting, tapering outlines of the building were unveiled: 70 occupied floors topped by a cable superstructure and a spire reaching 1,776 feet. At the ceremony, David M. Childs, the architect and consulting partner at Skidmore, Owings & Merrill who is leading the design team, said it would "probably be the safest building in the world."

In an attempt to live up to that very public promise — to overcome public fear, and reassure prospective tenants — the designers of the tower are carrying out a most unusual exercise that is in equal parts brainstorming, forensic analysis and Götterdämmerung-style what-iffing. They are systematically mapping out a dark spectrum of possible calamities, from major fires to terrorist attacks, and they are attempting to measure, with the greatest precision that technology affords, how well the building would hold up and safeguard the people inside. With that information in hand, the designers are improving the structure and trying to make it safer.

"This is at ground zero," said Daniel Libeskind, the architect who is the master planner for the site. "So I think the site has the responsibility to go way beyond the ordinary safety codes. Everything in the power of engineering, security thinking, safety thinking, architecture, urbanism has to be done to recognize that this is a special site."

The first goal, of course, will be to prevent any future terrorist attacks, and the builders of the Freedom Tower say that a variety of intensive security measures will be put in place. Even so, every prospective tenant is likely to entertain the same thought on his first trip to the top. As John W. McCormick, an engineer and code expert who is a consultant on the project, puts it: "There's a need to recognize that, just very possibly, it might be a target."

So the engineers and architects are thinking the unthinkable, and playing out their visions of catastrophe, often on computers. The work is still in its earliest stages, and much of it remains deliberately shrouded in secrecy. But it will include simulations of mass evacuations as emergency personnel rush up the stairs, fires and smoke that sweep through multiple floors, blasts and impacts that knock out huge steel structural supports, and internal damage that leaves some of the water sprinklers unable to function.

The preparations, in fact, are so extensive that they might make current industry standards seem lax by comparison. The builder of another signature tower declined to be included in this article, concerned that even his company's extensive safety studies would not measure up. Indeed, Howard J. Rubenstein, spokesman for Larry A. Silverstein, the site's developer, says that Freedom Tower "will incorporate all of the innovative safety features Larry Silverstein is building into 7 World Trade Center, which exceed all relevant city and state building codes."

Legally, however, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey is exempt from city building codes, as it was when it built the first World Trade Center. The exemption has become bitterly controversial.

"They're still enjoying all the immunities," said Monica Gabrielle, the co-chairwoman of the Skyscraper Safety Campaign, who lost her husband, Richard, in the collapse of the south tower on Sept. 11. "We've heard `meet and exceed' before. We've heard `innovative' before. And when I hear those things I start to twitch."

She's not the only one. "He's really setting up an interesting challenge for himself," said Kathleen J. Tierney, a sociology professor and director of the Natural Hazards Center at the University of Colorado in Boulder, speaking of the promise Mr. Childs made at the unveiling ceremony. "I mean, how's he going to prove it?"

Perhaps only an independent panel of structural, fire and safety experts could give such an assertion credibility, said Dr. Tierney, who is on the advisory committee of a continuing federal investigation of the trade center disaster.

The Port Authority put some of its intentions in writing, signing a "memorandum of understanding" with the city buildings and fire department in 1993 pledging to meet or exceed the municipal building code, but critics have called the agreement toothless. A spokesman for the Port Authority, Dan Maynard, said the agency is determined to fulfill the agreement. "We take it as a personal thing given our facilities have been terrorist targets," he said. He added that building plans would be subjected to an independent peer review.

During an interview earlier this month, Mr. Childs qualified his earlier statement somewhat. In a crisis, Mr. Childs said, "obviously the White House war situation room is probably the safest place to be. But of high-rise buildings, I believe this is one of the safest."

Mr. Childs added that while he sympathized with the skepticism expressed by those who lost loved ones, "I would say, `Take me on my words for what I know. I'm not doing this to sell the building. That's not my job. I'm doing that because I feel a sense of responsibility."

The details of the safety features could change substantially as the design process plays out. But in broad terms, the plan begins with the steel and concrete structure that will resist the forces of gravity and wind and keep the building standing under ordinary circumstances.

At street level, the building's cross section, or footprint, is a parallelogram whose short diagonal runs from the southwest corner to the northeast corner. Those two corners run vertically upward, while the other two sweep in as the building rises, creating the torqued and tapering effect in the steel-and-glass perimeter. The core of the building, where the elevators and stairwells will be, is to be reinforced concrete.

The concrete core continues several hundred feet above the highest occupied floor. From its highest point, cables drape down to the rim of the occupied part of the building, forming a stout structural connection between core and exterior. How well that structure would withstand specific kinds of attacks — say, a car bomb that blows out a support column at street level — is one of the biggest questions facing the design team. Citing security concerns, however, members of the project declined to discuss the specific terrorist scenarios they have considered.

Whatever those chilling specifics, the general approach that the designers are taking is clear, said Matthys Levy, an engineer and founding partner at Weidlinger Associates, the company that is consulting on the effects of blasts for the project.

"You define attack scenarios," said Mr. Levy, who cautioned that he was not directly involved in the work on the Freedom Tower. "You say under certain scenarios you might lose an element in the building. Then, you look at the redundancy" — the ability of the structure to shift loads over to undamaged columns and beams.

And in that respect, the basic structure of the Freedom Tower appears to rate high marks, Mr. Childs said. In a reflection of the two sloping corners of the tower, steel support columns in the perimeter intersect in shallow angles and form tall triangles with the floors. Even if part of that structure were blown away, the rest of it would retain its overall integrity, "like a showgirl's stocking," Mr. Childs said.

"They really form a fabric," he said. "So you can tear a hole in it and yet that fabric all still holds together."

That effect, said Guy Nordenson, a structural engineer who produced an early design for the building (some features of which were incorporated into the current working version), is reminiscent of the one that kept the twin towers standing immediately after the planes punched huge gashes in their sides.

According to Mr. Nordenson, the cable system is designed to shift loads from damaged elements on the perimeter to the core, so that a damaged portion of the building could in principle "hang" from the core like canvas from a tent pole, which gives the structure added redundancy, and therefore safety. "It can accommodate whatever scenarios you want to throw at it," he said.

For his earlier design, topped with a similar structure, Mr. Nordenson calculated what might happen if high-speed aluminum projectiles — say, the fuselage and wings of an airplane — struck the cables. Like the cables that hung from dirigibles above London in the Blitz, he said, this structure would probably cut up the planes while holding the building. But because those calculations are preliminary, and based on an earlier version of the design, Mr. Nordenson has not shared them with the rest of the Freedom Tower design team. He said that he has not done any calculations of what would happen if a plane struck the lower, occupied part of the building.

The stairways in the core will be lined with concrete, which should also have a much better chance of staying intact during a blast or impact than the drywall that was used in the twin towers. More than 1,000 people were probably alive in the upper floors of those buildings after the planes hit, but they could not get down because the stairwells were not passable. "When you consider some kind of event — of course an airplane or projectile hitting the building — certainly there is the potential for the damaging of the stairs," said Mr. McCormick, the building code expert. "That is why we are seeing the hardening of the interior of the building."

The design team is also considering a measure that would be remarkable in a commercial environment where every square foot not devoted to real estate counts as lost revenue. Two escape stairwells would be required by city code, but according to Carl Galioto, an architect and partner at Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, the design team may recommend a third. It would allow emergency personnel to enter the building quickly without slowing down people in the main escape routes. The third stairwell would occupy about 100 square feet per floor, Mr. Galioto said.

As in the design for 7 World Trade Center, which is under construction, the team has already committed to making the two escape stairwells wider than required in the code, with extra-wide landings, emergency backup power for the lighting, photoluminescent paint on things like handrails, and — another measure not required by code in a sprinklered building like the Freedom Tower — ventilation systems to pressurize the stairwells and keep smoke out.

To gauge the benefits of a third stairwell, the designers will once again conjure up specific emergencies — this time using computerized facsimiles that simulate what occupants might do in a crisis. Looking preternaturally calm, even disembodied, the swarms of faux-humans make "decisions" about which exits to take and whether to stay with co-workers or family members while breathing noxious fumes. In one such program, the zombie-like people sink through the floor and disappear as they die of smoke inhalation or heat exposure. Although the programs have been criticized as oversimplifying complicated human responses to emergencies, they do let engineers estimate the speed of evacuation under various circumstances

"We will look at ways to evacuate the entire building," Mr. Galioto said, "under a number of different scenarios" — from a blackout to a terrorist attack, testing the effect of the third stairwell in all the cases.

One fire safety expert, Jake Pauls of John Jay College of Criminal Justice, questioned how occupants could be dissuaded from using the third stairwell to escape during an emergency. But a designer on the project said simply that the stair may not be labeled with an exit sign. In this plan, certain elevators could be located close to the third stair, allowing firefighters to take an elevator up to two or so floors below a fire, then climb the special stair the rest of the way.

As to fireproofing, Mr. Galioto said that the building would rely on a spray-on, cement-based product that adhered much more strongly to steel than the code required, but that he would specify insulation thicknesses that meet the code, rather than surpass it. A flimsy and easily dislodged type of fireproofing has become a controversial element of the twin towers' construction. "Keep it on the steel," Mr. Galioto said. "That will be adequate to protect the structure."

He said that the tower would also have provisions for internal antennas and a "repeater," or signal-boosting, system to help emergency workers communicate with one another when they are in the building.

All of the people involved in designing the Freedom Tower said that despite its fraught location, other signature buildings — those that seek to make a statement on a skyline anywhere in the world — would now face many of the same safety challenges. The Freedom Tower may serve as a test case for this new generation of skyscrapers. That means it is crucial to find architectural expressions that mesh gracefully with those twilight concerns for safety, said Mr. Libeskind, the master planner.

"It's global," Mr. Libeskind said. "Perhaps we have to live with it for the foreseeable future, but we should not be deterred from making an open, interesting architecture that is really optimistic in the way it's conceived, in terms of the openness of the city."

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/03/14/arts/GLAN.184.1.jpg
The Freedom Tower may serve as a test case for a new generation of buildings that try to make statements on their skylines while ensuring safety.

The Cable Structure

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/03/11/arts/GLAN.slideone.2.jpg

Like the “hat trusses” in the twin towers, which joined the center of each building to its periphery, these cables should help a damaged building resist the power of gravity by redistributing the exterior’s loads to the core.

In preliminary work on his earlier but similar design, the structural engineer Guy Nordenson found that the cables are likely to cut an oncoming airplane to pieces, like the cables that hung from dirigibles over London in the Blitz.

The Core

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/03/11/arts/GLANZ.slidetwo.jpg

The original World Trade Center’s stairwells were made of sheetrock. The Freedom Tower’s will be made of reinforced concrete, which is more likely to withstand a blast or impact. Also, unlike sheetrock, concrete has enough stiffness to resist the sideways force of the wind if something happens to the outer structure of the building.

The External Shell

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/03/11/arts/GLAN.slidethree.jpg

This will be in the shape of a diagonal grid, known for its redundancy and stability. In the case of an attack, the building should have a spontaneous ability to shift loads from damaged areas, as the twin towers did. Therefore, a hole in the building’s perimeter should not result in an immediate collapse.

Stairwells

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/03/11/arts/GLANZ.sldiefour.jpg

The lighting will include regular and battery power, as well as photo luminescent paint on critical objects like handrails. To keep the stairwells from filling with smoke, they will be kept at slightly higher air pressure than the surrounding office spaces. The stairwells will be wider than required by the building code; the exact width will be determined partly by computer programs that calculate how people may behave in a mass evacuation. The building may feature a third stairwell (code requires only two) that would be mainly for the use of firefighters and other rescue workers.

Fire Safety

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/03/11/arts/GLANZ.slidefive.jpg

There will be two sets of pipes feeding the sprinklers, one in each major stairwell, with each one feeding alternate floors. This way, if one stairwell is cut or destroyed, the sprinklers will at least work on every other floor. The emergency water tanks will be extra-large and the sprinklers extra-powerful. Fireproofing will be sturdier and more adhesive than required by code.

Elevators

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/03/11/arts/GLANZ.slidesix.jpg

There will be no sky lobbies in the Freedom Tower; elevators will go straight to the ground. This will prevent scenes like the one that occurred on the 78th floor of the south tower, where many people who were waiting for express elevators died when the second plane hit.

Special Communications

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/03/11/arts/GLANZ.slideseven.jpg

The design includes provisions for radio repeaters and other special communications equipment to be installed in the building.

NY1

Designers Working To Make Freedom Tower The World's Safest

http://www.ny1.com/Content/images/live/59/116618.jpg

MARCH 14TH, 2004

Details are emerging about the safety precautions that are being taken in the design of the Freedom Tower that will rise on the World Trade Center site.

The 1,776-foot tower, expected to be the world's tallest building when completed, is being billed as the safest skyscraper ever designed.

The designs are being tested in a variety of computer simulations, from everyday high winds to terrorist bombings. Designers say they're taking extra precautions to guard against a repeat of the 9/11 attacks.

The building's core will be made of reinforced concrete, with intersecting steel support columns and cable supports. The design is expected to be superior to that of the original Twin Towers.

A structural engineer involved in the project tells the New York Times that the system is designed to shift the load to another portion of the structure if part of the building is damaged.

The stairwells will be wider than required by code and reinforced with concrete, creating a safer escape route than the one offered by the original towers.

The engineer says the tower will also have internal antennas to help emergency crews communicate better inside the building.

Is there any activity on ground zero now? Anyone with pics?

http://www.kniazev.net/news/manhattan1.jpg

:master:

They should have rebuilt the WTC with improvements to the internals of the building and a reworking of street level design. This spire, cable, and antenna crap is NOT befitting of a grand venue like New York.

Everything has to be so God-damned "deep" and "meaningful", and they are going to end up producing something completely hideous.

Let the memorials handle the tragedy. Let the tower rise to handle the needs of the future.

No need to reinvent to wheel.

Newsday

Freedom Tower groundbreaking set for July 4

By AMY WESTFELDT
Associated Press Writer

May 5, 2004, 1:15 PM EDT

NEW YORK -- Developers of the Freedom Tower will break ground on the 1,776-foot skyscraper at the World Trade Center site on July 4, Gov. George Pataki said Wednesday.

Pataki, speaking at a business luncheon near ground zero in lower Manhattan, announced the start date of the construction on what is promised to be the world's tallest building.

"On July 4, as we commemorate the founding of our nation, we lay the foundation for our resurgence," Pataki said. "On July 4, as fireworks burst in the sky, ephemeral reminders of our liberty, we will begin to reclaim our skyline with a permanent symbol of our freedom."

The July 4 date is well ahead of Pataki's stated goal of breaking ground by late summer.

"America and the world will witness as our plans go from paper to steel," he said.

The Freedom Tower will be built on the northwest part of the trade center site, not on the footprints of the vanished twin towers.

The plan calls for a cable suspension structure that creates an open area above the building's 70 floors of office space, and houses windmills to generate energy.

The governor said a Con Edison substation located in 7 World Trade Center, a building under construction, is expected to begin service by the end of the month, replacing equipment destroyed in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

And the badly damaged Deutshe Bank building, overlooking the southwest corner of the trade center site, will be dismantled beginning this year as the project moves forward, Pataki said. It should be completely torn down by next year, he said. The governor did not provide specific dates.

In another move aimed at reviving the neighborhood, Pataki said a feasibility study indicated a $6 billion tunnel beneath the East River was the better option for a rail link between lower Manhattan and Kennedy International Airport.

The proposed option would give commuters a "one-seat" ride from downtown to the airport. The East River tunnel was preferred to a Brooklyn tunnel that currently serves the M, N and R subway lines.

Using the existing Montague tunnel would cost $3.5 billion to $4.5 billion.

Pataki announced several other dates in the redevelopment timetable at the trade center site, including that a complete design of the memorial, "Reflecting Absence," would be finished by the end of the year and construction starting in 2006.

Private donors will need to raise money to build the memorial, which is budgeted for at least $350 million. Major League Baseball, the Baseball Players Association and the Baseball Tomorrow Fund are joining to donate $1 million to the fund, Pataki said.

nice but too patriotic for me. I would have chosen 9/11 but it's their call

The poll results for this thread are absolutely amazing eh? ;)

Yes....

You know the WTC was extremely unpopular when it first went up, but eventually the virtues of the building came through and years later it became accepted and eventually loved by New Yorkers.

But the Freedom Tower is going to be mistake of epic proportions. No one is going to love a building that looks incomplete like this one does - with a mangled mess of trusses and cables crowing a building.

Sad to see One Liberty being torn down as well. It wasn't a remarkable building, but it did have a certain charm and lent itself well to the area.

Same renderings, just bigger:

http://www.dboxstudio.com/psl/gal03/01/p01/01.jpg

http://www.dboxstudio.com/psl/gal03/01/p01/02.jpg

http://www.dboxstudio.com/psl/gal03/01/p01/03.jpg

http://www.dboxstudio.com/psl/gal03/01/p01/04.jpg

http://www.dboxstudio.com/psl/gal03/01/p01/05.jpg

http://www.dboxstudio.com/psl/gal03/01/p01/06.jpg

http://www.dboxstudio.com/psl/gal03/01/p01/07.jpg

It's transparency is one of the worst features. It just doesn't seem solid, strong and empowering. Those are the characteristics which the skyline desperately needs.

It's transparency is one of the worst features. It just doesn't seem solid, strong and empowering. Those are the characteristics which the skyline desperately needs.
I agree with you 100%.

The 2nd rendering savethewtc posted doesn't make it look too bad, but probably because that's where I think it looks it's most opaque. Those last 2 look horrible. From a distance it seems like it's going to look like some kind of ghostly image of a skyscraper. It's just not right. Not to mention I dislike that stupid transparent layer leading up to the spire, as well as the spire itself. :no:

I like it. I think the "ghostly" look is respectful. The spire is very empowering. It complements the Statue of Liberty beautifully - a landmark symbol of America's FREEDOM.

I'm not trying to argue with what it's supposed to symbolize, but as I've stated in another thread, I think they had the chance to do something amazing here, and I look at this final design, and it seems like wasted potential to me.

The design itself looks like a convoluted mess, thought up of by two people who couldn't make up their minds on what they wanted, and whenever they did, they argued about it. While the torque itself doesn't look too bad, the narrowing-off of it in one diretion towards the top just looks too strange.

The height is another issue I have with it. 2000 feet to the top of the spire is very impressive in my book, but highest occupied floor is only 1150. It's only going to have 70-72 floors, compared to the WTC's 88 (I believe that's correct). It's almost as if fear came into play when deciding how high they will put people in this building. The lattice from 1150 to 1500 is what makes it look the most transparent, and I don't like it at all. I don't like to hear the words "World's Tallest Building", because I seriously can't compare a building that's made up of 3/4 hollow lattice and antenna with one that has higher occupied floors.

Maybe it will look better when it's actually completed like another person suggested. Heck, maybe it will look nicer and I may come to like it a little. I also take appreciation to the hard work put into designing and building this tower, but I really feel it could have been done a lot better, and apparently the majority of people agree with me one way or another.

I admit it is growing on me, except the roof needs to be much higher. I have doubts the other towers will be built though.

I think it should go 1776 to the roof, 2001 to the spire and some thing like 101-110 floors, anything under 100 floors is a joke.

I like this pic:
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/532/490mem_aerial_large2_bmp.jpg

Just imagine the tower without the lattice and just the short solid torque, that's basically all I see. The transition from the office space to lattice is laughable, it looks like they just stuck an empty filled top to boost height, which is exactly what was done. Talk about restoring the skyline.

I like glass facades, but they're playing it out here, that's all you see in these renderings.

NY POST

WTC'S ANGRY GENIUS

By ANDY SOLTIS

May 29, 2004 -- Architect Daniel Libeskind is threatening to sue Ground Zero developer Larry Silverstein — claiming he's owed a "genius fee" for his work on the Freedom Tower, sources told The Post yesterday.

Libeskind asked for about $1 million for his effort on the showcase building of the World Trade Center site — but Silverstein offered much less, sources said.

Libeskind's wife and business partner, Nina, sought the big bucks for his overall vision in rebuilding the trade center site, even though Libeskind wasn't the chief designer of the Freedom Tower, sources said.

"She wanted Larry to pay him a 'genius fee,' " a real-estate source said.

Libeskind's side denies asking for such a fee but said the architect should be compensated for his work on the building, for which ground will be broken on the Fourth of July.

"He did a lot of work on Freedom Tower, and he wants to get paid for it," Libeskind's lawyer, Ed Hayes, said yesterday.

Hayes added: "We've made very substantial progress today" in narrowing the difference between the two sides.

But he added, "If you can't get paid, you sue the guy."

But Silverstein, who holds the lease on the trade center site, is asking for documentation — timesheets for the architect's work on the tower.

Libeskind's side said he doesn't have the paperwork and stressed Libeskind's work on designing the overall master plan for the site, according to knowledgeable sources.

But Silverstein maintains Libeskind was already paid "many millions of dollars" for the master plan by the Lower Manhattan Development Corp.

"It would be unfair to the government and Mr. Silverstein for Mr. Libeskind to be paid twice for his Freedom Tower idea," said Howard Rubenstein, a spokesman for Silverstein.

"It is our hope that he will accept our repeated offers of mediation in order to avoid a time-consuming and expensive court battle."

The two sides are believed to be a few hundred-thousand dollars apart. Hayes predicted the dispute would be resolved "very soon."

http://www.nypost.com/photos/news05292004004a.jpg

Dash, The WTC's were 110 floors not 88, Plus the highest occupied floor will be 1500 feet, The 1150 foot figure is the tip of the office roof.


Naptown, Yes the other towers will get built, The PA needs 10 MSF, and the revised plan shows the towers taller than the official rendering released before the change in December, by at least a few hundred feet per tower. Tower 2 is now somewhere around 1200 feet and the smallest will be 870 feet, the others will be in between,


Also in response to making the office roof 1776 feet, thats not gonna happen, thats unrealistic

Dash, The WTC's were 110 floors not 88, Plus the highest occupied floor will be 1500 feet, The 1150 foot figure is the tip of the office roof.

No it's not. The lattice were never counted as actual "floors" and the observation deck is within the lattice, so yes it'll be occupied but how can you say it's the highest number occupied floor when 72 (is it?) - the observation deck, in other words 1150 feet to 1500 feet is NOT occupied at all!

Naptown, Yes the other towers will get built, The PA needs 10 MSF, and the revised plan shows the towers taller than the official rendering released before the change in December, by at least a few hundred feet per tower. Tower 2 is now somewhere around 1200 feet and the smallest will be 870 feet, the others will be in between,

Please, the other towers aren't for certain and especially now that Silverstein is cash strapped big time with the insurance rulings. There's been no mention of any heights recently, and the only indication or talk about the other towers is that only the base will be built and they will rise in time (MUST contain setbacks mind you) according to market demand.

Also in response to making the office roof 1776 feet, thats not gonna happen, thats unrealistic

Agreed, they're scared.

No it's not. The lattice were never counted as actual "floors" and the observation deck is within the lattice, so yes it'll be occupied but how can you say it's the highest number occupied floor when 72 (is it?) - the observation deck, in other words 1150 feet to 1500 feet is NOT occupied at all!



The lattice is not empty savetheWTC, There will be mechanical and broadcasting etc. rooms throughout the cores plus the steel windfarm, THe cores are about as thick as ESB's mast, There will be an observation deck, elevators, restrooms, cafe's, Stairwells etc. at the top plust more broadcasting floors, I could go on and on, THe roof of Freedom Tower is 1,500 feet,

And yes the other towers will be built, The 10MSF must be replaced, And the PA can help silverstein help, and if they can't then they will get a new developer, or get the money from somewhere else


Plus the *FINAL* design hasn't even rolled out yet, Give it a chance

http://www.nypost.com/photos/news05292004004a.jpg

Wow, he's almost as ugly as his architecture.

LOL, Their both so ugly that it's hard to look at them

NY POST

DANNY'S LATEST HISSY FIT

June 5, 2004 -- Daniel Libeskind, the self-proclaimed genius and celebrity architect selected to design the redevelopment of Ground Zero, is throwing another public hissy fit.

This one, wouldn't you know, is all about money: He wants more of it — a lot more.

Not content with the $2.25 million he was paid for his master plan of the World Trade Center site, Libeskind is demanding another $800,000 to compensate him for the extra effort he had to put in after his concept for the Freedom Tower was merged with that of architect David Childs.

Larry Silverstein, developer of the site, has offered $125,000 — an offer Libeskind and his wife/partner/PR voice deem "insulting."

The Libeskinds also are miffed over the suggestion that perhaps their demand might carry more weight had they kept timesheets or provided some other paper trail.

After all, they say, timesheets can't begin to capture the genius' artistic vision.

Oh, please.

Silverstein wants to submit the dispute to arbitration, but the Libeskinds say they don't trust the process. Besides, says their legal mouthpiece, the whole dispute is nothing more than retaliation by Silverstein because he wanted to get around Libeskind's master plan.

If so, good for Larry — for the whole project would have been better off without that design.

Libeskind, after all, seems to be more concerned with shameless self-promotion than about restoring New York's skyline and commercial vibrancy.

Last year, he appeared as pitchman in an automobile ad that touted his Ground Zero work, boasting that he'd been awarded "the commission of the century."

Now, he's busy — or, rather, his ghostwriter is busy — working on a memoir that was meant to be published this fall to coincide with the third anniversary of the terrorist attacks. (And why has there been no objection from the 9/11 families about that tasteless marketing tie-in?)

For all the public rancor, both sides concede that a compromise will be reached.

Too bad — it's time for those involved in rebuilding Ground Zero to stop indulging Daniel Libeskind's bloated ego.

JMGarcia at WNY pointed out that SOM has new pictures on their website of the Freedom Tower model:

http://www.som.com/press_release/large_model/PHOTO_LOBBY.jpg

http://www.som.com/press_release/large_model/PHOTO_PLEAT.jpg

http://www.som.com/press_release/large_model/PHOTO_TORQUE.jpg

http://www.som.com/press_release/large_model/PHOTO_TURBINE.jpg

Somebody please pull back the curtain and tell me this is all a BIG FREAKIN' BAD JOKE. This is one of the ugliest things I've seen in my life.

stoopid libeskind...he cares more about his salary than honoring the victims and defeating the terrorists. i bet the terrorists would love to endorse him. that's why his design looks so awful. i bet he didn't put in half the effort in designing this. that x-bracing curtain wall on the freedom tower is horrific junk. that makes the building look so antagonistic.

and why are the families of the victims not doing anything about that conman?

New York Times
June 20, 2004

From 20-Ton Granite Block, Freedom Tower Will Rise

By DAVID W. DUNLAP

Rather than breaking already broken ground at the World Trade Center site on July 4, Gov. George E. Pataki will instead preside as a cornerstone is laid for Freedom Tower - more than 20 tons of garnet-flecked granite from the Adirondacks.

As the tower rises atop this five-foot-high block at its southeast corner, the stone will disappear from view, finally to be obscured entirely by the underground structure filling the 70-foot-deep foundation. But it is not likely to be forgotten there.

"The cornerstone will serve as a reminder for years to come that we marked this July Fourth with a tribute to our city's resolve and rebirth," said Lynn Rasic, a spokeswoman for the governor. "It's truly fitting that this cornerstone will be made out of New York stone because this is the bedrock of New York City's future."

That rock traveled some 200 miles last week from upstate to the yard and factory of Innovative Stone Inc. in Hauppauge, on Long Island, where it is being cut, honed, polished and inscribed. Then it will be trucked into Lower Manhattan.

(The exact text of the inscription is not yet decided, Ms. Rasic said.)

The stone is a mix of black and gray, from feldspar and hornblende; pale green and white, from quartz and also from feldspar; and brownish red, from deposits of garnet as large as a half-dollar coin, said Karen Pearse, the founder and chief executive of Innovative Stone. When the sun hits the garnet facets, she said, "It's dazzling."

This particular granite, which Ms. Pearse has named the "Freedom Stone," was chosen in part because garnet is the official gem of New York State.

The block will sit atop a 14-by-16-foot foundation of concrete and steel bars at the base of Freedom Tower, which will be the tallest and most symbol-laden of the six office buildings planned on and around the trade center site.

"It's literally the first piece of the foundation of the building," said Janno Lieber, the trade center project director for Silverstein Properties, the developers of Freedom Tower and 7 World Trade Center, which is already under construction across Vesey Street.

Last month, Governor Pataki ended a speech on Lower Manhattan with a rhetorical flourish. "On July Fourth, as fireworks burst in the sky - ephemeral reminders of our liberty - we will begin to reclaim our skyline with a permanent symbol of our freedom," he said. "On July Fourth, 2004, we will break ground on the Freedom Tower."

But the sanctity and rawness of that ground, where the incision of a ceremonial spade would have been regarded by some as the reopening of an awful wound or the desecration of a cemetery, compelled state officials to devise another kind of ceremony.

"With some persistence and hard work," Ms. Rasic, the governor's spokeswoman, said, "the builders are going to be able to prep the site in time to lay the cornerstone."

Innovative Stone was chosen by David Worsley of Silverstein, who worked with Ms. Pearse on the Time Warner Center at Columbus Circle when he was at the Related Companies. Innovative donated the granite block, worth about $14,000, which weighed 24 tons when it was quarried and measured 67 by 119 by 47 inches.

"This is the opportunity of a lifetime," Ms. Pearse said in a telephone interview on Friday. "I've done many projects all over the world, but nothing comes close to the significance of being able to donate this block."

The 23-year-old company, formerly Innovative Marble and Tile, has installed stonework in the Henri Bendel store and the Essex House Hotel in Manhattan, and in the MGM Grand Hotel in Las Vegas. It supplies granite countertops to Home Depot stores.

The paradox is not lost on Ms. Pearse that her most important commission will one day be the least visible. She does not sound at all troubled by that.

"For us," she said, "it will live on forever."

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

Ann Arbor News

Wind power firm may win landmark work

Tuesday, 22, 2004

Wind power company McKenzie Bay International Ltd. said it is a finalist to install a turbine atop the Freedom Tower, the centerpiece building for the reconstruction of the World Trade Center site.

Silverstein Properties Inc., the developer of the lower Manhattan property, invited Brighton-based McKenzie to submit a proposal to develop, operate and install wind energy facilities at the Freedom Tower, according to McKenzie. The twin towers were destroyed in the Sept. 11 attacks.

McKenzie CEO Gary Westerholm said the firm will compete against another yet-to-be-named wind power company. A spokesman for Silverstein did not return phone calls.

McKenzie's "WindStor" turbine is designed to supply more than 100 percent of the estimated electricity for the proposed building and store backup power to a battery for use during peak consumption periods or in case of a power outage. Westerholm said a final decision on the tower contract could come by the end of the summer.

The company announced last week it had installed its first "WindStor" system at the University of Quebec.

tonyo from WNY pointed out that the History Channel will show an interview with David Childs this Sunday, June 27 at 7PM Eastern. Here is a description from the History Channel website:

A Conversation with David Childs

Roger Mudd sits down with David Childs, lead design partner with Skidmore, Owings, and Merrill, one of America's top architectural firms. Childs is in charge of designing the world's tallest--and perhaps most controversial--building, The Freedom Tower at the World Trade Center site. Childs, whose career includes working on public projects like the Washington Mall, and in New York, where his modernist skyscrapers include the Time-Warner Center, reflects on the intersection of politics and architecture.

Libeskind was also on NY1 on the NY Times Closeup show tonight, he didn't say anything significant though, but I just caught like the last 10 mins or so.

It's odd that when he was asked about how much he's demanding for his work on the Freedom tower ("genius fee"), he didn't even know the figure but simply said it's not a huge amount and normal architects get paid around that amount.

NY1

Cornerstone For Freedom Tower To Come From The Adirondacks

http://www.ny1.com/Content/images/live/64/126599.jpg

JUNE 24TH, 2004

A 20-ton slab of stone from the Adirondacks will be the cornerstone of the new Freedom Tower at the World Trade Center site.

The cornerstone will become the first piece of the skyscraper's foundation when ground is broken on July 4th.

Governor George Pataki got a good look at the granite Thursday when he toured the Long Island facility where the cornerstone is being prepared.

“As we think of that tower that's going to soar 1,776 feet high - a symbol of our freedom, a symbol of our confidence that New York is not just coming back, but we're going to transcend and get beyond where were on September 11 - it will be based on granite from New York, carved and crafted by New Yorkers,” said Pataki.

The cornerstone will be set in place at the southeastern corner of the 70-foot deep foundation, then eventually disappear from view as the building is constructed.

The stone will be shipped to Lower Manhattan sometime next week.

I've heard of buildings (don't remember which off the top of my head) which took samples of sand or rock from every state in the US symbolically. I think rather than getting stone from New York State it would be better if the Freedom Tower was based on granite from throughout America, if not around the world, to show that the entire nation/world backs New York City as a pinnacle of civilization and the tragedy as universally recognized.

At any rate, the fact that George Pataki wants to personally break ground on that tower is disgusting. I've never liked the Freedom Tower, but the political motivations he has for wanting to build it make me sick. He's not getting my vote in 2006, if he runs.

screw pataki, he and his peeps at albany are totally out of touch with the new yorkers. we better get a huge pro-twins rally on sunday that will expose him as a criminal who messed around with the rights and liberty of the people.

oh well, he's gonna lose in 2006 at this rate now. new york was never meant for republicans anyway, especially now.

Newsday

Freedom Tower construction to begin

By AMY WESTFELDT
Associated Press Writer

July 3, 2004, 11:14 AM EDT

NEW YORK -- To the rebuilders of the World Trade Center site, the 20-ton hunk of granite that will mark the foundation of a 1,776-foot skyscraper Sunday represents promise and progress.

An inscribed cornerstone at the southeastern corner of the Freedom Tower's foundation will begin a construction project that officials say will help the city reclaim its skyline, nearly three years after losing the twin towers in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

But the future of the 16-acre site isn't exactly set in stone. Details in the design of the $1.5 billion Freedom Tower, announced last year as a compromise between feuding architects, are still changing, said lead architect David Childs.

"It's such a complicated building and it demands so much because it's got to be the best," Childs said. Among the elements subject to change, he said, are the crisscrossing cables up and down the side of the building and the positioning of cables leading to the spire topping the skyscraper.

Trade center leaseholder Larry Silverstein still hasn't signed an anchor tenant for the 70-story tower and a recent trial over insurance proceeds limited how much he can collect, prompting some to question whether all five proposed office towers on the site will be built.

Despite the uncertainty, Sunday's ceremony is "an incredible step for the rebuilding of ground zero," said Daniel Libeskind, the designer who conceived the site's original master plan.

Construction officially begins Sunday on the Freedom Tower; at 1,776 feet, a height meant to symbolize America's independence, no skyscraper in the world is taller. The 13-year-old son of a Port Authority of New York and New Jersey police officer killed on Sept. 11 will read the Declaration of Independence at Sunday's ceremony.

The tower is set to rise in a corner of the site that still hold ruins of a parking garage, although it will be several months before the progress is seen above street level. Crews will spend most of the rest of the year demolishing parts of the garage, removing some sections of it for historic preservation, said Port Authority spokesman Steve Coleman.

The schedule has concerned victims' family members and environmental advocates who worry that the construction will damage the nearby slurry wall, the last remnant of the tower complex, and the original trade center footprints.

"This is a priceless piece of our American history," said Anthony Gardner, a Coalition of 9/11 Families member whose brother was killed. He said the construction is premature until more is done to preserve the footprints.

The building, including at least 60 stories of offices and open space for retail and a restaurant at the top, is scheduled for completion in 2009.

Childs was hired by Silverstein to become the building's lead architect following an initial design for the site by Libeskind, who had been hired to create a master plan for rebuilding the trade center area. After disagreements between Childs and Libeskind over the Freedom Tower's size and shape, Childs introduced models in December.

Childs' version is a more slender tower, with windmills in an open area at the top instead of "gardens in the sky" envisioned by Libeskind. The building's height remained the same and, after much discussion, so did a 276-foot spire meant to resemble the Statue of Liberty's torch.

The initial design of the project represents just "1 percent of the work," said Childs. He said more alterations are possible, including adjustments to the spire's structure that would change the positioning of cables underneath the spire. "We have options for its exact placement," he said.

Silverstein released a statement through spokesman Howard Rubenstein Friday saying Childs can't make design changes without his and Gov. George E. Pataki's approval.

"The governor's vision of the building will remain intact," the statement read. "I am the developer and this decision is mine and the governor's."

Libeskind said he hopes that Childs would only make the spire "more prominent" and not change the design in a meaningful way.

"I will continue to be involved in making sure what the governor stood in front of and showed to the public of New York is what indeed is getting built," Libeskind said. "You're not going to show the public one image and build something different."

Earlier this year, a jury verdict sharply limited Silverstein's insurance payments _ raising fears about the development's future.

Silverstein, who leases the site for $10 million a month from the Port Authority, had sought to double his $3.5 billion policy. He now has a chance to collect no more than $4.5 billion.

"I suspect at some point there will be a renegotiation of Silverstein's lease," said Robert Yaro, chairman of the Regional Plan Association. "It's going to be hard for him to commit to a schedule for rebuilding unless the marketplace is there."

The Port Authority recently asked Silverstein to provide more details about his finances and how he plans to honor his 99-year lease. The developer has said he has an "unconditional right and obligation" to rebuild and plans to use insurance and "traditional financing methods."

Both sides have been banned from commenting on current negotiations by a gag order issued by a judge in the insurance case.

Yaro said Silverstein's plan to build four additional towers between 2009 and 2015 is in doubt. "We certainly feel that we want to see at least the 10 million (square feet) that was there built in lower Manhattan," he said. "It doesn't have to be in the trade center site."

But Carl Weisbrod, president of the Alliance for Downtown New York, said every proposed building is likely to rise, although the timing may change depending on market conditions.

Silverstein's money can easily pay to build the Freedom Tower and a second tower, Weisbrod said, while the others can be financed through Liberty bonds available for lower Manhattan and by leveraging tenants' leases to obtain collateral for loans.

"The average public development project in this country takes a couple of decades to complete," said Weisbrod. "The progress here has been nothing short of really miraculous."

___

On the Net: www.renewnyc.com

Some good news there at least- construction at last!

*sigh* Well, at least they're starting progress after such a long period of anticipation - it's not like waiting a couple more years with Childs at the helm will help the cause. But the piece of granite being put in place seems to be more symbolic than anything else and the REAL construction/revealing of the plans may not happen until several months later; I say at this point if they're insisting on the Freedom Tower, time is more of the essence than wasting too much time making precise decisions.

New renderings from the LMDC:

http://www.renewnyc.org/images_WMS/groundbreaking/aerial_sw_final.jpg
http://www.renewnyc.org/images_WMS/groundbreaking/east_view_final.jpg

New York Times
July 4, 2004

Cornerstone Laid for Skyscraper at Ground Zero

By CHRISTINE HAUSER

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/07/04/nyregion/04cnd-rebu3.184.jpg
A 20-ton slab of granite was laid today as the cornerstone of the skyscraper replacing the World Trade Center.

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/07/04/nyregion/04cnd-rebu2.593.jpg
Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, Gov. George E. Pataki and Gov. James McGreevey of New Jersey unveiled the cornerstone of the skyscraper replacing the World Trade Center.

In an Independence Day ceremony with fluttering American flags and the wail of police bagpipes, a sparkling 20-ton block of granite was laid today as the cornerstone of the Freedom Tower skyscraper that will rise as the centerpiece of rebuilding at the World Trade Center site.

Gov. George E. Pataki of New York, Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Gov. James E. McGreevey of New Jersey watched from a stage with an audience including families of victims and survivors of the Sept. 11 attacks, as a crane heaved the block into a recess carved into the 70-foot-deep foundation.

Applause went up as the stone came to rest, guided by men in hard hats, onto a timber platform.

Morris Robinson, an opera singer, broke into an unaccompanied rendition of "God Bless America."

"I cannot imagine a more appropriate day to stand on this sacred ground and lay a cornerstone dedicated to freedom, the defining principle of our nation and the reason that we were attacked on September 11, 2001," Mr. Bloomberg said.

As the first piece of foundation, the cornerstone ceremony symbolized the start of construction of the 1,776-foot Freedom Tower, which will serve as the centerpiece structure for the rebuilding of the trade center site.

"Today we take 20 tons of Adirondack granite — the bedrock of our state — and place it as the foundation, the bedrock, of this new symbol of American strength and confidence," Mr. Pataki said.

"Today, we lay the cornerstone for a new symbol of this city and of this country, and of our resolve to triumph in the face of terror," he said.

The event was infused with religious and historical symbolism and references. A rabbi, a priest and a Muslim Imam stood together on the stage, giving speeches to emphasize religious unity.

A 13-year-old boy, Julian Davis, whose father, Clinton Davis, was killed in the attack while trying to evacuate people, read the passage from the Declaration of Independence that proclaimed equality for all.

The granite stone was flecked with the New York state gemstone, garnet, that reflected light off its facets. It is inscribed:

"To honor and remember those who lost their lives on September 11, 2001 and as a tribute to the enduring spirit of freedom — July Fourth, 2004."

After the ceremony people in the audience crowded around the stone to photograph and examine it.

Among those at the ceremony were three generations of Sheila Kaufman's family. The 44-year-old Port Authority employee was a survivor of the attacks, escaping from the 73rd floor before the first tower collapsed. She held hands with people who made it out with her. On her way down, she saw others who did not.

When she reached the lobby, she could hear a thump which she only later realized was the sound of people who had jumped or fallen, hitting the ground.

Mrs. Kaufman held her 10-month-old daughter, Kayla, as she inspected the stone up close. She came to the ceremony for her children, she said.

"For them to be part of history," she said, standing near her young son Gabriel. "And the re-birth."

The Freedom Tower skyscraper will include about 60,000 square feet of retail space at its base, followed by 2.6 million square feet of office space on 70 stories, topped by three stories including an observation deck and restaurants. Above the enclosed portion will be an open-air structure with wind turbines and television antennas. The governor's office is a prospective tenant. Occupancy is expected in late 2008.

The cost of the tower, apart from the infrastructure below, is estimated at $1 billion to $1.3 billion. The developer, World Trade Center Properties, an affiliate of Larry A. Silverstein's Silverstein Properties, says it will be financed with insurance proceeds, but the total pool available to Mr. Silverstein has shrunk because of his losses in a legal battle with insurers.

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company

OMG it looks great, I really like it!!!
Judging by the renderings, I'm overly impressed...it's gonna hit my top1 spot right away, that's for sure!

:master: Amazing job Daniel Libeskind :master:

Is Burj Dubai going to be a threat to Freedom Tower's height?? As for the title for WORLD'S TALLEST BUILDING!!

OMG it looks great, I really like it!!!
Judging by the renderings, I'm overly impressed...it's gonna hit my top1 spot right away, that's for sure!

:master: Amazing job Daniel Libeskind :master:

You mean David Childs.

The lattice portion still looks very miserable and doesn't co-exist well with the rest of the structure, same for the spire.

You mean David Childs.

The lattice portion still looks very miserable and doesn't co-exist well with the rest of the structure, same for the spire.

Dude...the whole dang project sucks.

You mean David Childs.

The lattice portion still looks very miserable and doesn't co-exist well with the rest of the structure, same for the spire.

Yea well...
I don't really find that too worrying, settle down and let it grow on ya...you may not believe me now, but eventually, you're gonna LOVE this piece of masterwork ;)

Dude...the whole dang project sucks.

Agree, but rather than just saying that I said what's wrong with the project. It wont be a while since we see steel rising up though since the old parking garage still has to be demolished (couldn't be demolished since it holds up the slurry wall.)

Another rendering with the Freedom tower and the new 7 WTC:

http://www.silversteinproperties.com/images/7WTC7_aerial_ful_web.jpg

Arrgghhhhh :mad2:
What a bad design...

NY Times

Rebirth Marked by Cornerstone at Ground Zero

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/07/04/nyregion/05rebu.l.jpg
After ceremonies, the cornerstone of the Freedom Tower, which is to be the tallest building at the rebuilt World Trade Center site, was put in place.

By DAVID W. DUNLAP
Published: July 5, 2004

In the dusty bowl of ground zero, a garnet-speckled granite cornerstone was laid yesterday for the Freedom Tower, the tallest skyscraper planned at the World Trade Center site.

New York took the first tangible step to recover its place at the pinnacle of the global skyline in a ceremony that was held within the trade center's foundation, in bright sunshine but far below street level, where bedrock begins. Once again, said Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, "the world's tallest building will rise in Lower Manhattan."

Exactly how tall is not yet known. Though officials in their Independence Day speeches could not resist referring to the Freedom Tower as a 1,776-foot building, the main structure will reach only 1,500 feet — still quite a bit higher than the twin towers were — while the television antenna might approach 2,000 feet.

The cornerstone is about 65 feet below nearby Vesey Street, on a concrete pedestal set atop Manhattan schist bedrock. Next to it is a column footing from which structural steel will begin to rise in the next year; that is, if all the financing falls into place for a project that will cost at least $1.3 billion and has no large prospective office tenants yet.

With many questions unanswered, symbolism was the order of the day at the hourlong ceremony. The muted celebration of progress was tempered — as are all events at the trade center site — by the inescapable shadow of 2,749 lost lives, including that of Officer Clinton Davis of the Port Authority Police Department, whose 13-year-old son, Julian, read a brief portion of the Declaration of Independence from the dais.

"Today is renewal," said the Rev. John D. Romas, pastor of St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church on Cedar Street, which was crushed beneath the south trade center tower. But he added, "I still have hurt in my heart."

In a speech accompanied by the screech of a passing PATH train, Gov. George E. Pataki of New York said the future 73-story office building would "serve as a reminder that not only did thousands of our friends and family die on this sacred ground, but that they lived, worked, loved and dreamed here, too."

He was joined by Mayor Bloomberg, Gov. James E. McGreevey of New Jersey and the developer Larry A. Silverstein in unveiling a block of granite 5 feet 6 inches high that was quarried a little over a month ago at Ruby Mountain in the Adirondacks.

Engraved on its buffed and polished face are two- and four-inch-high letters, in a simple sans-serif typeface called Gotham, highlighted in silver leaf.

"To honor and remember those who lost their lives on September 11, 2001 and as a tribute to the enduring spirit of freedom," the cornerstone says. "July Fourth 2004."

At 10:45 a.m., as the canyonlike trade center foundation reverberated with the bass of Morris Robinson of the Metropolitan Opera singing "God Bless America," the 20-ton block was hoisted into a temporary position as a photo backdrop, sitting on heavy timber supports atop a concrete pedestal within a shallow 300-square-foot pit.

An hour and 20 minutes later, after the high-ranking officials and some 520 invited guests had dispersed, the stone was raised again by Dan McClain, at the controls of a 150-ton crane from Bay Crane Service. The timber supports were removed and the stone was laid back down directly on the pedestal.

Because it is so far below street level, the cornerstone is almost impossible to see from any public vantage, although a view can be had from the top of the east staircase of the Vesey Street pedestrian bridge. It is in front of the nearest exterior emergency staircase at the temporary PATH station.

Even this view will be lost as the steel structure begins to rise for about 500,000 square feet of underground space. That will occur after the foundation walls have been reinforced with new anchors tied to bedrock, which will permit the dismantling of the underground parking garage, the floors of which now provide needed reinforcement.

By this time next year, if all goes according to plan, the Freedom Tower will have begun its ascent to a point somewhere far up high in the sky, certainly higher than the original north tower (1,368 feet) or the south (1,362).

"The glory of this latter house shall exceed the former," Governor McGreevey said, borrowing from the Old Testament book of Haggai.

Outside the ceremony and up on Church Street, members of the World Trade Center Restoration Movement and Team Twin Towers took an opposite tack, saying that a failure to rebuild the twin towers amounted to a capitulation to terrorism. "What's taken down should get built right back up," said Joe Wright, from the restoration movement.

Critics of the redevelopment process also took issue with official priorities. "The governor and the mayor should feel obliged to put as high a priority on creating good jobs and affordable housing for ordinary New Yorkers as they do on replacing high-end office space," said David Dyssegaard Kallick of the Fiscal Policy Institute.

On West Street, members of the Coalition of 9/11 Families urged the preservation of the structural remnants of the original towers, including the cut-off bases of the box-shaped perimeter columns. "We feel they will provide a powerful, tangible connection for current and future generations," said Anthony Gardner of the coalition.

Most guests arriving at the ceremony were probably unaware that they were crossing the line of the north facade of the north tower, since the column bases had been covered in gravel. Officials of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which owns the site, said the gravel was spread to create a smoother grade and to protect the remnants.

During the impending dismantling of the parking garage that was under 6 World Trade Center, some architectural elements will be preserved, including a smoke-scarred column, a column on which the paint was blistered by heat into a marbleized pattern and a section of smoke-stained wall with the words, "Yellow Parking B2."

Almost the entire floor slab from Level B4 will be saved because it doubles as the ceiling over the PATH tracks, which will run directly under the Freedom Tower.

Tapered and torqued, the tower is to have 2.6 million square feet of office space, an observation deck, restaurants and the antennas of the Metropolitan Television Alliance, which includes Channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11 and 13. It is being designed by Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, which worked with Daniel Libeskind, the master planner of the site. The Tishman Construction Corporation is the builder.

To the question of exact height, a spokesman for Silverstein Properties said that "1,776 feet will be marked in a significant way but is not necessarily from base to point."

The building is to be occupied in late 2008. Silverstein Properties, the commercial leaseholder of the trade center site, maintains that insurance proceeds will cover the cost of the Freedom Tower. The leaseholder has lost several legal battles with its insurers, however, and it is unclear how much more of the planned five-tower development can be financed through insurance.

Meyer Feig, whose computer consulting firm, the Intera Corporation, once had its office in the south tower, seemed content for the moment with the ceremony itself.

"It's really a service of moving forward the rebuilding process," he said. "You now get the sense that there really is some positive energy in the air down here."

Arrgghhhhh :mad2:
What a bad design...

i have to agree with you. this is just not working out. can't you believe it? a symbol of fraud and corruption is going up on the site where 2000+ ppl died for the sake of liberty and freedom!!! and what's worse? the design is just wrong!

good thing they still have to demolish that parking garage. let's make the most of our remaining time to stop this madness.

the plans are still bad...a 73 floor tower is such a big fat joke, with nearly half of its height being nothing but lattice, windmill, and spire. the new 7 wtc actually look like an architectual wonder compared to the current plans for the superblock.

sigh...if they can't even get the rebuilding process right, then just rebuild the towers the way they were. how hard is that to do? if pataki, bloomberg, silverstein, libeskind, and childs really want to be heroes in the eyes of the people, they should just listen to them and rebuild the twins! it's as easy as 1,2,3. no hassle, no conflicts, no troubles, done...

but why do they say it's gonna be the tallest?
Will it be taller than Seoul's, or will it be done before the Burj Dubai?

but why do they say it's gonna be the tallest?
Will it be taller than Seoul's, or will it be done before the Burj Dubai?

Laziness, as is characteristic of the media.

but why do they say it's gonna be the tallest?
Will it be taller than Seoul's, or will it be done before the Burj Dubai?

I asked when Burj Dubai will be finished at the project forum in the world forums and I was told late 2008, early 2009 which basically is around the same time planned for the Freedom tower's completion.

7 WORLD TRADE get over it!!!!they have already STARTED CONSTRUCTION ON THE FREEDOM

7 WORLD TRADE get over it!!!!they have already STARTED CONSTRUCTION ON THE FREEDOM

Have you done your research? They're not starting construction until 2005.

7 WORLD TRADE get over it!!!!they have already STARTED CONSTRUCTION ON THE FREEDOM

u call placing a rock onto the site starting a construction? like izeklah said, they still got months before REAL construction starts.

here in the forums, we have the right to express our own opinions, and it's our duty to respect others. we can disagree, but we can't attack others directly. i've respected urs, and u better respect mines and jack's (savethewtc).

http://www.silversteinproperties.com/images/7WTC7_aerial_ful_web.jpg


According to this rendering:


Top of spire: 2300 feet
Top of lattice roof: 1776 feet with deck inside!
Top of office roof: 1200 feet or so.

Also make a note that those other towers are just placeholders. The official plan showed them taller.


Not so bad, I'll wait and see what Childs rolls out with in the final. :)

u call placing a rock onto the site starting a construction? like izeklah said, they still got months before REAL construction starts.

here in the forums, we have the right to express our own opinions, and it's our duty to respect others. we can disagree, but we can't attack others directly. i've respected urs, and u better respect mines and jack's (savethewtc).



Who cares? Freedom Tower will still get built. :)

Not so bad, I'll wait and see what Childs rolls out with in the final.


lol we don't even care about/mention libeskind anymore lololol :rofl:

I asked when Burj Dubai will be finished at the project forum in the world forums and I was told late 2008, early 2009 which basically is around the same time planned for the Freedom tower's completion.

how bout seoul's IBC? i think IBC will be WTB for a VERY short time. do u think so?

lol we don't even care about/mention libeskind anymore lololol :rofl:



Nope, Libeskind is a whiny baby and he sucks ass at designing buildings! Which is why I'm glad the job was handed over to Childs (One of my fav. architects) and Libeskind is gone! :cheers:

actually I was over at SSP, and I saw their diagram for under-construction buildings, and the Freedom tower is said to be completed in 2009, while the Burj in 2008.
http://www.skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?2063133

yes, libeskind is as ugly as his talent as an architect. Childs in other hand should be knighted, except we do not have that kind of system here.. damn.. i mean... compare the Time Warner Center with ANY of libeskind's building.. absolutely uncomparable and dazzling..

it's good that libeskind is kicked outta this. really, i wonder why pataki even chose his plan. ppl know that he's nothing but an arrogant amateur who care more about bux than serious designing, and pataki might as well get laughed out of office for choosing an architect who never designed a skyscraper before.

but i think childs should just totally break away from libeskind's ideas. libeskind's plan's causing childs to not be able to really express his true talents, and there's just too much restrictions from silverstein. not to mention the pro-skyline-element utopians who cower in fear at the thought of buildings with tall roofs. if he can just stand up more for himself, he can do way better than the freedom tower. and he could truly build a worthy replacement of the twins.

but we gotta get libeskind and silverstein completely out of the picture first before that can happen.

Libeskind is already out of the picture, Hopefully silverstein will loosen up under the PA and Childs's demands.


I'm still hoping for something like this...


1300' occupied building (80-82 floors)
1800' apprx latticework, thick visable cores and heavy dense cables (with deck)
22-2300 to top of pinnacle- maybe pataki will push that with the FAA so it beats any other WTB contestant.


That would be awesome!

yeah, but cover the lattice with reflective glass, put the spire in the center of the building, and add a twin.

THEN, it'll be really awesome!

yeah, but cover the lattice with reflective glass, put the spire in the center of the building, and add a twin.

THEN, it'll be really awesome!

Quoted for emphasis.

And an observation deck on the top of the cables...Soooo coool! :runaway:

yeah, but cover the lattice with reflective glass, put the spire in the center of the building, and add a twin.

THEN, it'll be really awesome!

But make sure the one with the antenna is six feet taller.

NY1
July 13, 2004

Libeskind Sues Silverstein Over Pay For Freedom Tower Design

World Trade Center site planner Daniel Libeskind announced Tuesday he is suing site lease holder Larry Silverstein because he says he did not get paid for his work helping to design the Freedom Tower.

The relationship between Libeskind, Silverstein and Silverstein's architect, David Childs of the firm Skidmore, Owings and Merill, has been tense ever since Childs took over as the lead architect of the Freedom Tower. Libeskind was named collaborating architect, and the suit says Libeskind and his staff worked side by side with Childs' firm to ensure the integrity of his design for the Freedom Tower.

However, according to the suit, no compensation was laid out for Libeskind’s participation in the project. After the design was complete, the suit says Libeskind asked to be paid 1.5 percent of the total building cost, which is a standard fee for architects.

The estimated building cost is $1.5 billion, but Libeskind is now asking for just under $844,000. According to the lawsuit, Silverstein rejected that request.

Instead of a percentage, Silverstein allegedly asked for time sheets for the work put in by Libeskind and his associates. The suit says no time sheets were kept because Libeskind says he assumed standard fees would be accepted.

Eventually, Silverstein offered $225,000, which is less than one-third of the amount Libeskind asked for.

Silverstein had paid Skidmore, Owings and Merill an undisclosed amount for its portion of the design.

NY1 has reached out to Silverstein for comment, but hasn't heard back yet.

Copyright © 2004 NY1 News

Libeskind is such a whiny baby! I hope he loses his case. His design for the WTC was among the worst, I'm glad he got booted off! Go Childs!!! :cheers:

libeskind is a baby and silverstein is a wimp. they don't belong at ground zero.

libeskind doesn't deserve the bucks. the current design doesn't even look like his original one anymore, except for the glass and the beyer blinder belle buildings and their sloped roofs... everything else's been altered.

ugh... as much as i hate libeskind, why is silverstein acting so cheap?



















but when you think about it, libeskind does not deserve it!!!!

i hope the "undiscloed amount" for SOM is at least 3 million lol

"Libeskind is such a whiny baby! I hope he loses his case. His design for the WTC was among the worst, I'm glad he got booted off! Go Childs!!!"

Couldent have said it better myself...although I did, I think...lol check the official Libeskind vs. Silverstein thread.

sorry that i offended u 7WTC i thought they had already started construction and i totaly respect your opinions. no strong feelings?

it's all right, just want u to get the real facts that's all. no hard feelings...lol

Ill add some pics to liven up this page.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/SJM87/wtc.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/SJM87/wtc2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/SJM87/wtc3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/SJM87/wtc4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/SJM87/wtc5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/SJM87/wtc6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/SJM87/wtc8.jpg

You know, the Freedom Tower wouldn't be half bad if they would just fill in the whole empty space at the top. Especially from the viewpoint of SJM's 3rd picture. I think it's their fear of building real floors that high that bugs me the most.

To hell with Libeskind, his garbage architecture, and his greed. I designed two versions of Freedom Tower that looked way better at no charge.

Yeah I know what you mean, the freedom tower could be great if the office portion were higher then it is now(maybe 150-200ft higher would be good). Also theres just way to much lattice work on the tower. Seriously, during a sunset or sunrise when you look at the tower you are going to see a nice skeleton.

But in looking at the fourth pic, Im starting to see that this tower isn't really supposed to be a gigantic office building. Its really more towards memorial and what we lost, people should try to realize that more.

That is exactly what this tower shouldn't be^. This tower should be a beacon of progress, not a look glimpse of the past. That is what the memorial is for.

Then again your right it really should be a beacon of progress showing that America can quickly recover from such a tragic loss.

Its kinda like you having a coffin of your dead grandfather in your living room. come on.... we MUST move on!

It looks boring, especially the little towers around it!

Looks like the terrorist won. As a proud aussie and ally I am disappointed to see this impotent looking excuse going up. It's not the Amercian way that i imagined it to be - nor very New York in it's "half assed" look.It's a nice enough tower but not there...anywhere than there.
I doubt the next attack will be in the form off a hijacked aircraft, especially in NYC so just build those twin beauts again as defiance would be the best message to the bastards who inflicted this on your great city and memorial to those poor souls and heros who perished that awful day.

Looks like the terrorist won. As a proud aussie and ally I am disappointed to see this impotent looking excuse going up. It's not the Amercian way that i imagined it to be - nor very New York in it's "half assed" look.It's a nice enough tower but not there...anywhere than there.

You speak true Icanseeformiles. I feel the same way. The fact of the matter is though, that we could NEVER build those towers again. Period. It would just be too weird; like NY was in denial that the 11th ever happend.

Just be thankful the terrorists can never take away our memories of them and be proud that you actully lived in a period of time that they did, in fact, stand tall.

Just be thankful the terrorists can never take away our memories of them and be proud that you actully lived in a period of time that they did, in fact, stand tall.

That was just beautiful.

i know.

Since you put it that way I can see your point about the denial aspect.I guess it's different for a person who doesn't live in NYC. Not much point adding to the millions of words spoken since 9/11 but I can speak for almost all Australians in that we truely shared your pain and outrage.I saw much anger and tears in the general public during that surreal time. I think that dust cloud from the WTC spread all over the civilized world.
I just wish the redevelopment was ...I don't know...bolder? bigger?...more defiant.I'm sure it will look pretty cool however so good luck.
Cheers.

The Freedom tower is failure in my mind, for many reasons.

What was taken from us on 9/11 was not just our tallest buildings in the city, but one of the key components of Lower Manhattan. If if wasn't for the PA's ego and the Rockefellers obsession with putting up a big project in Lower Manhattan to keep business there and liven up the neighborhood back when the WTC project was in the works, no one knows what would've happened to Lower Manhattan. It's funny, these guys actually raised the height of the Towers back then, rather than lowered it like we're seeing today.

Anyway, it's this determination, will and you could call it corporate greed, a claim to fame, or whatever you want (there's two ways to see things) that produced gigantic Towers that reaffirmed NYC's skyline as the best in the world at the time, even though this might not have been realized until later on in the WTC's life.

You have this determination, will and all that I mentioned previously going on today, but this time it's backfiring and producing a result in the Freedom tower. This time we're putting up a big project again in hopes of keeping business in Lower Manhattan and reviving the neighborhood just like in the case of the original WTC, but we're doing it miserably.

The skyline is being replaced with a spire and lattice, as opposed to tall occupied space, we are building according to market demand, we are building a fairly contemporary design in the Freedom tower if you just look at the office portion, we're building on human scale above all, which the off human scale presence of the WTC is what I truly believe most New Yorkers want in this new WTC.

I want this tower to blow my mind, make me feel tiny and helpless, look bold, strong, and once again reaffirm Lower Manhattan as one of the skyscraper locations to be at in the world just like the WTC did back in the day.

I don't want any lattice, torque, transparency, and huge ass spire.

Gimme my simple facade, tall, unimaginative boxes, they're bold enough, they'll do the job again, give 'em a damn chance.

Well said savethewtc. I wouldn't mind a Freedom Tower and the rest of the New WTC somewhere else in the city (I don't know where), but the Twins do need to be rebuilt where they were before.

The rebuilding process IMO should have been completed by now.

very well put jack.

if pataki, bloomberg, and their cronies think that they are revitalizing lower manhattan, then they are wrong. trying to do that with transparant, sad, and timid looking towers, new streets that are not beneficial, a depressing memorial with no hope contained in it whatsoever, and a lack of more public space is totally destined for failure.

the former wtc revitalized a rather depressing looking slum area with tall, bold, twins and a giant public plaza that became the anchor of lower manhattan and the hub of the business districts there. the twins became the definition of the financial district with their towering look that spoke of america's financial might.

however, the freedom tower and its shorter, depressing buildings will once again making the place depressing looking. such a ill-thought out complex will permanently damage lower manhattan's look and cast a glum over the financial district. i will never stand such a thing rite smack dab in the middle of downtown.

and don't tell me that it'll eventually grow on me, cuz it won't. just as the public labeled those beyer blinder belle plans as junk, i label libeskind/childs' plan as junk. the current plan is no different from those first set of 6 plans, and therefore should be rejected as soundly as those 6 plans.

rebuild the twins for pete's sake! it doesn't take brains to see that it's the only way to bring lower mahattan to its former splendor. so why is pataki, bloomberg, and their cronies still denying that simple yet true fact?

What if they built one of these instead of the freedom tower? :cheers:

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=103158

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=103160

Jack, you hit the nail on the head. They're trying to do what the WTC did in a much shorter building, and it just isn't going to happen.

What was wrong with daniel libekind's original plan. It didn't look to bad.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/SJM87/libekindoriginal.jpg


Heres something else I found that kind of gives a different perspective of the freedom tower.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/SJM87/freedomtower2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/SJM87/freedom4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/SJM87/freetower.jpg

The Freedom tower is failure in my mind, for many reasons.

What was taken from us on 9/11 was not just our tallest buildings in the city, but one of the key components of Lower Manhattan. If if wasn't for the PA's ego and the Rockefellers obsession with putting up a big project in Lower Manhattan to keep business there and liven up the neighborhood back when the WTC project was in the works, no one knows what would've happened to Lower Manhattan. It's funny, these guys actually raised the height of the Towers back then, rather than lowered it like we're seeing today.

Anyway, it's this determination, will and you could call it corporate greed, a claim to fame, or whatever you want (there's two ways to see things) that produced gigantic Towers that reaffirmed NYC's skyline as the best in the world at the time, even though this might not have been realized until later on in the WTC's life.

You have this determination, will and all that I mentioned previously going on today, but this time it's backfiring and producing a result in the Freedom tower. This time we're putting up a big project again in hopes of keeping business in Lower Manhattan and reviving the neighborhood just like in the case of the original WTC, but we're doing it miserably.

The skyline is being replaced with a spire and lattice, as opposed to tall occupied space, we are building according to market demand, we are building a fairly contemporary design in the Freedom tower if you just look at the office portion, we're building on human scale above all, which the off human scale presence of the WTC is what I truly believe most New Yorkers want in this new WTC.

I want this tower to blow my mind, make me feel tiny and helpless, look bold, strong, and once again reaffirm Lower Manhattan as one of the skyscraper locations to be at in the world just like the WTC did back in the day.

I don't want any lattice, torque, transparency, and huge ass spire.

Gimme my simple facade, tall, unimaginative boxes, they're bold enough, they'll do the job again, give 'em a damn chance.

if i were a king, i would knight you, and make you in charge of all architecture-related topics


@SJM

the latter pictures are the final version (or are they gonna change it again :ohno: ) the first versions were better, in my opinion, but those bastards changed it so it can favor few people.

if pataki, bloomberg, and their cronies think that they are revitalizing lower manhattan, then they are wrong. trying to do that with transparant, sad, and timid looking towers, new streets that are not beneficial, a depressing memorial with no hope contained in it whatsoever, and a lack of more public space is totally destined for failure.

however, the freedom tower and its shorter, depressing buildings will once again making the place depressing looking. such a ill-thought out complex will permanently damage lower manhattan's look and cast a glum over the financial district. i will never stand such a thing rite smack dab in the middle of downtown.

^Just an example of a lot of the opinions here.
Why is everyone so pessemistic and angry? I mean, I can understand if someone doesn't like the new complex design, but just look at this, constantly labelling everything sad, timid, hopeless, miserable, depressing.... it sounds like some of you are depressed! You feel like you're rebelling againt Pataki by doing that, don't you? Well, you're really not. It's as if you people actually want to hate the new complex only out of desire for the twins to return, so you constantly bash it and try to make it seem as pathetic as possible in your mind. I guess if you call the new design miserable, depressing ect. enough, you start to believe it. That, or you can get over the fact that the twins are gone (and they ain't coming back), and finally be able to look at the new design for what it is instead of what it replaces. Sad but true.

Oh, Islander, please save us the speech you have told everyone over and over again. People can be angry furious at this situation.I think everyone in the right mind is. This is a terrible mess and embarrassment that has scarred our city, and we will have a new icon of terrible architecture. I am sure am not proud, are you? We lost two of our cities most famous landmarks, and we will replace it with a 60 story building that tapers into disaster. And this plan has been so utterly ill thought out! It is a failure! The design of the main feature of the new site is a scham, we got families crying all over the world, a collaboration that went very sour that has turned into a multimillion dollar lawsuit and the city is just wasting billions! And tell me one other major icon that has gone into construction phase without a final blueprint? I mean, I want to wake up and realize I was dreaming! This is just a mess and I sure won't be applauding it like you are anytime soon.

And you know what Islander? As a person who lost several family members and friends, and that was inside Tower 1 when the first plane hit, I believe I have a right to protest or applaud the construction of this site, along with every New Yorker and every person affected. If they don't like the damn tower, let it be heard.

Wow Im sorry for your loss GVNY. I also lost a dear friend on 9/11. And I also agree with you about the tower. Good day sir!

Why is everyone so pessemistic and angry? I mean, I can understand if someone doesn't like the new complex design, but just look at this, constantly labelling everything sad, timid, hopeless, miserable, depressing.... it sounds like some of you are depressed! You feel like you're rebelling againt Pataki by doing that, don't you? Well, you're really not. It's as if you people actually want to hate the new complex only out of desire for the twins to return, so you constantly bash it and try to make it seem as pathetic as possible in your mind. I guess if you call the new design miserable, depressing ect. enough, you start to believe it. That, or you can get over the fact that the twins are gone (and they ain't coming back), and finally be able to look at the new design for what it is instead of what it replaces. Sad but true.

Thank goodness someone has said this other then me. Thanks Islander.

Why is everyone so pessemistic and angry? I mean, I can understand if someone doesn't like the new complex design, but just look at this, constantly labelling everything sad, timid, hopeless, miserable, depressing.... it sounds like some of you are depressed! You feel like you're rebelling againt Pataki by doing that, don't you? Well, you're really not. It's as if you people actually want to hate the new complex only out of desire for the twins to return, so you constantly bash it and try to make it seem as pathetic as possible in your mind. I guess if you call the new design miserable, depressing ect. enough, you start to believe it. That, or you can get over the fact that the twins are gone (and they ain't coming back), and finally be able to look at the new design for what it is instead of what it replaces. Sad but true.

dood, why are you so bugged by us? it's not like we even criticized you or anything. we are just expressing our inner feelings. and did you see any of us calling you pro-freedom tower ppl something bad (except those who really flame against us of course)? evidently we didn't. and look at yourself, you are criticizing us for our very own opinions. i saw what u and fellow pro-freedom tower ppl did to talb back in ssp. he is just expressing the wish for the twins to be back and presenting his views to you guys, and you guys just began to flame him and make him look really bad.

looks more like you pro-freedom tower ppl are the ones who got some problems to address. you guys can't even stand us presenting our negative views on the freedom tower while you guys freely bashed those pro-twins ppl when you guys are bigger in number. please try to be more considerate. i know, i get sorta emotional when it comes to addressing the freedom tower and i can't help expressing my frustration at the rebuilding process. but that's no excuse for labeling us as sorry ppl.

Well, look at the source 7WTC.

Ok, I probably didn't word that quite right. First off I'm not trying to offend anyone or preach, nor am I "bugged out" by anybody, or taking any of this too seriously. But, I'm just very curious about posts like GVNY's right after mine! Especially all the phrases that don't even really mean anything, but are seemingly thrown in to make the whole situation seem worse, eg. "a 60 story building that tapers into disaster." Speaking of the new complex as if it will be the end of the city, or even the world. They're office buildings, after all. Some people make everything out as being so horrible, and I just wonder why. It's not as if they're just going to leave a hole in the ground for all eternity... THAT I would be angry about. Don't take any offense anyone.

Well, it's 9/11/04 in New York, the Freedom Tower still sucks, and I'm going to bed. I'm sure Pataki, Silverstein, Libeskind and Childs are also going to, or are already asleep.

I truely hope they don't wake up.

I scaled down a new rendering that was released showing the Freedom tower and the rest of the WTC towers completed, here it is:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/2404newrend91104.jpg

High resolution:

http://www.renewnyc.com/images_WMS/freedom_tower/dbox_WTC_Southwest.jpg

It's like a horror movie.

http://img76.exs.cx/img76/2120/LatticeHorror.jpg

i agree with u newyorkmantle, they gotta at least raise the height of the freedom tower's roof to the height of the twins. but the lattice with its windmills will still make building look like a nightmare.

looks like none of the shorter buildings are gonna top 1000ft from the looks of the new rendering. they look so lame in their current state. add some architecture to it dood...

They just don't get, if they stuck two of the other boxes they have in that rendering, make them as tall as the Freedom tower, they'd have a plan everyone likes.

Just try to visualize the Freedom tower without the lattice, what an embarassment. Essentially that's what they're building, they're just pissing away money on the lattice.

Also, still no modifications done to the spire...

"1,776-Foot Freedom Tower Will Be World's Tallest Building, Reclaim New York's Skyline" - LMDC

Haven't these ass holes heard of the Burj Dubai?

face it!!!!!!!! they are never going to have a plan that everyone likes. even if they do make tower2 taller u all are going to find something else to complain about.and you all suggesting changings isnt going to make it reality!!!!!!!!!!! so stop complaining and suck it up. look at it at a brighter perspection they are building a 2000 foot tower here!!!! so just suck it up and deal with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

face it!!!!!!!! they are never going to have a plan that everyone likes. even if they do make tower2 taller u all are going to find something else to complain about.and you all suggesting changings isnt going to make it reality!!!!!!!!!!! so stop complaining and suck it up. look at it at a brighter perspection they are building a 2000 foot tower here!!!! so just suck it up and deal with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's get the facts straight here, this tower is far from being a 2000 foot tower despite the fact what the officials are saying.

Also, what's the problem? People are just offering their critiscms which is warranted since we're rebuilding the WTC site.

If you got a problem with people complaining about the project going up in the city, you got to suck it up and accept that.

On another note, I got a mini screen grab that shows the Freedom tower from street level, I know the quality sucks, but I tried:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/2404ftdboxvidgrab.jpg