So that yesterday they sign an agreement to bid for the 2018/2022 World Cup , here is the topic to discuss what stadiums they might use:

Portugal

Estádio da Luz - Lisbon - 65 000

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/portugal/lisbon_luz1.jpg
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/portugal/lisbon_luz2.jpg


Estádio do Dragão - Porto - 50 000

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/portugal/porto_dragao1.jpg
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/portugal/porto_dragao2.jpg


Estádio Alvalade - Lisbon - 50 000

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/portugal/lisbon_alvalade1.jpg
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/portugal/lisbon_alvalade2.jpg


Estádio Axa - Braga - 30 000 (+ 10 000 temporary seats)

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/portugal/braga_municipal1.jpg
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/portugal/braga_municipal2.jpg


Estádio do Algarve - Faro/Loulé - 30 000 (+10 000 temporary seats)

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/portugal/faro_algarve1.jpg
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/portugal/faro_algarve2.jpg



Spain

Camp Nou - Barcelona - 106 000

http://stadiony.net/projects/camp_nou/camp_nou03.jpg
http://stadiony.net/projects/camp_nou/camp_nou04.jpg


Santiago Bernabeu - Madrid - 80 000

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/spain/madrid/madrid_santiago_bernabeu1.jpg
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/spain/madrid/madrid_santiago_bernabeu2.jpg


Nuevo Mestalla - Valencia - 75 000

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_menu/past_future/pictures/future_stadiums/valencia_mestalla.jpg


La Peineta - Madrid - 73 500

http://stadiony.net/projects/estadio_la_peineta/estadio_la_peineta01.jpg


La Cartuja - Sevilla - 72 000

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/spain/andalusia/sevilla_la_cartuja1.jpg
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/spain/andalusia/sevilla_la_cartuja2.jpg


San Mames - Bilbao - 56 000

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_menu/past_future/pictures/future_stadiums/bilbao_mames.jpg


Nueva Romareda - Zaragoza - 42 500

http://stadiony.net/projects/nueva_romareda/nueva_romareda01.jpg
http://stadiony.net/projects/nueva_romareda/nueva_romareda09.jpg

nice pics :redx:

I read that only 1 stadium in Lisboa will be in the bid?

I can´t see the pics either.

The Nou Camp capacity is 98.934

I´m happy that Spain and Portugal go together for this bid. Finally this two countries do something together.
Even though I think that Spain alone could have done it. I think we have a big chance of getting the world cup.

Ufff what a nice bid.. i would definitely go to that worldcup..
:D nice countries, nice stadiums plus one of them speaks my language.. :D
I am there!!

Strange, I can see the pics, i will fix it. The capacity for Camp Nou takes in account the planned renovation.

It seems the configuration of the bid will be 8+4 with the opening in Lisboa and the final in Madrid (although opening could be in Barcelona if FIFA finally requires +80,000 stadiums for that).

In Spain, these ones will be in the bid for sure:

- Camp Nou (Barcelona, 98,000+expansion)
- Santiago Bernabéu (Madrid, 80,000)
- Nou Mestalla (Valencia, 73,000)
- Estadio Olímpico (Madrid, 73,000)
- Nuevo San Mamés (Bilbao, 58,000)
- Ruiz de Lopera / Sanchez Pizjuan (Sevilla,55,000-65,000)
- Nueva Romareda (Zaragoza, 43,000)

So we just need another stadium (unless Spain rejects having 2 stadiums in Madrid and decides to let Lisboa have them, something unlikely).

La Coruña could be a good option. Deportivo has an old 35,000 stadium and they have been trying to reach a deal with the City Council to build a new one. A WC would be a perfect excuse for that and this way we would cover the region of NW Spain.

Malaga is also a good choice since it's the sixth largest Spanish city. They have just made important work in their small stadium (29,000) but the club seems to be growing after facing some financial problems. It would cover SE Spain.

Murcia (SE Spain, 7th largest city) and Palma (Balearic Islands, 8th largest city) could be less likely options. Murcia built a 33,000 stadium in 2006 but I am not sure if it could be expanded. Mallorca wanted to build a new 40,000new stadium but the team is not in good shape and current crisis hasn't helped the project.

Perhaps this could be the start of a new era in the relations between the two countries. Personally I think that this bid has all the ingredients to be successful!
I'm guessing that the Alvalade stadium would be left out in that case seeing as Spain would be hosting 8 stadiums due to its larger size.

It seems the configuration of the bid will be 8+4 with the opening in Lisboa and the final in Madrid (although opening could be in Barcelona if FIFA finally requires +80,000 stadiums for that).

So we just need another stadium (unless Spain rejects having 2 stadiums in Madrid and decides to let Lisboa have them, something unlikely).


Spain invited Portugal for this, Portugal accepted. But i don't see the bid going forward if those two situation don't happen.


Of course the opening has to be in Lisbon. It couldn't be any other way, a country in a join bid couldn't be without a final or an opening.
It's a strange requirement from FIFA, what countries in the world have two satiums with more then 80000 seats? Only giants like USA and China, or England and Spain in Europe (even France or Italy probably don't have it). This way it will be almost impossible for many countries to keep biding for WC.


The other problem is the two Lisbon stadiums. Like we all know portuguese football it's all about 3 clubs: Benfica, Sporting and Porto. A football competition in the country without the participation of the 3 clubs it's almost impossible.
And besides that, it would mean that 2 more stadiums (instead of one) would need works for temporary seats. At this point, with the economic crises the country is living, i don't see suport from the government to accept that. The government only accept the offer because it wouldn't have almost any costs, they can easly change their mind.

Portugal's stadiums
Luz (opening)
Alvalade
Dragão
Braga (it's possible they choose Algarve just because of the tourism. I think Braga would be better)

Of course the opening has to be in Lisbon. It couldn't be any other way, a country in a join bid couldn't be without a final or an opening.
It's a strange requirement from FIFA, what countries in the world have two satiums with more then 80000 seats? Only giants like USA and China, or England and Spain in Europe (even France or Italy probably don't have it). This way it will be almost impossible for many countries to keep biding for WC.Yeah, it's a strange requirement and it may be just a rumour, but it has been in the press these days. I don't support it either.

The other problem is the two Lisbon stadiums. Like we all know portuguese football it's all about 3 clubs: Benfica, Sporting and Porto. A football competition in the country without the participation of the 3 clubs it's almost impossible.
And besides that, it would mean that 2 more stadiums (instead of one) would need works for temporary seats. At this point, with the economic crises the country is living, i don't see suport from the government to accept that. The government only accept the offer because it wouldn't have almost any costs, they can easly change their mind.I wouldn't really mind having 2 stadiums in Lisbon since it would mean the Spanish host cities would cover a larger part of the country but I don't think it will happen. Madrid offers 80,000+73,000 while Lisbon 65,000+50,000, so the second choice might weaken the bid.

Of course the opening has to be in Lisbon. It couldn't be any other way, a country in a join bid couldn't be without a final or an opening.
It's a strange requirement from FIFA, what countries in the world have two satiums with more then 80000 seats? Only giants like USA and China, or England and Spain in Europe (even France or Italy probably don't have it). This way it will be almost impossible for many countries to keep biding for WC.

I guess it's enough to have one. If you're hosting the WC on you're own you can have the opening match on the stadium that can host the final ( France 1998 ) ...and if there's two countries, one of 80k for each of them.

It seems the configuration of the bid will be 8+4 with the opening in Lisboa and the final in Madrid (although opening could be in Barcelona if FIFA finally requires +80,000 stadiums for that).

So we just need another stadium (unless Spain rejects having 2 stadiums in Madrid and decides to let Lisboa have them, something unlikely).

If Spain also takes the opening match along with the Final I doubt Portugal would accept another condition like letting Madrid have 2 stadiums if they can't also use Alvalade.

Isnt the minimum capacity 45K for a WC now not 40K? I could see those two smaller portugese stadiums having problems reaching that with temp stands.

Yeah, it's a strange requirement and it may be just a rumour, but it has been in the press these days. I don't support it either.

I wouldn't really mind having 2 stadiums in Lisbon since it would mean the Spanish host cities would cover a larger part of the country but I don't think it will happen. Madrid offers 80,000+73,000 while Lisbon 65,000+50,000, so the second choice might weaken the bid.


I understand your view, but i think everybody is just talking about stadium sizes and seats. I don't think a WC is just that, and it's very sad if FIFA sees it that way.

We are talking about a join bid. Everybody knows that in terms of stadiums and infrastructures, Spain could do it alone. But they decided to bid with Portugal (probably because FIFA liked the idea).

With that decision, Spain (and FIFA) must know that some adjustments have to be made. If stadium sizes were the only thing that matters, Spain wouldn't invite Portugal, and FIFA would advise Spain to do it alone.

We must not forget that all this people know and talk with each other. I'm sure there were a lot of phone calls between Battler and Angel Villar, before Spain decided to invite Portugal.

Nothing is for free, this spanish decision is for their own good, i'm sure of it. But when they decided this, they knew Spain would loose some games and some importance.

I'm pretty sure the opening will be in Luz, and i also don't see Alvalade out of the bid.




Braga stadium seem very good choice for the 4th place. It would be very easy (and not very expensive) do put 10000 temporary seats in one of the tops (the one without the "stone wall" of course)

That transformation in the Algarve stadium wouldn't be that easy. But it's hard to leave the most tourist area of the country out of the party. Hotels and other tourism infrastructures it's what Algarve has more

Isnt the minimum capacity 45K for a WC now not 40K? I could see those two smaller portugese stadiums having problems reaching that with temp stands.

In Germany there were 4 stadiums with less then 45k ( between 42k and 44,600 ).

We are talking about a join bid. Everybody knows that in terms of stadiums and infrastructures, Spain could do it alone. But they decided to bid with Portugal (probably because FIFA liked the idea).



Actually its most likely that Spain decided to co-host as they had already hosted the World Cup in 1982 which is quite recent compared to other countries bidding. This will give them a better chance of winning as Portugal haven't hosted before. So Spain actually needs Portugal to win IMO. (and FIFA has generally frowned at Joint bids btw)

Yeah, here we go!! Nice to see Spain and Portugal working together al last!

Wasn't the new project for the stadium in Zaragoza 50k?
In Sevilla I would definately choose reformed Sevilla or Betis stadium, not La Cartuja with the tracks. If I remember correctly both projects are 60k+.

Wasn't the new project for the stadium in Zaragoza 50k?The winner project has 43k with an easy expansion to 50k, but until the club and te City Council reach an agreement there is nothing sure.

In Sevilla I would definately choose reformed Sevilla or Betis stadium, not La Cartuja with the tracks. If I remember correctly both projects are 60k+.For sure. I guess none of the stadiums will have tracks,since they will be removed from Estadio Olimpico in 2016 in the worst case.

I doubt that Málaga will be an option, the current stadium can't be expanded and the city council will not pay for a new stadium since they already paid for the renovation of the current.

Perhaps Vigo would be an option, but then they would have to reconstruct the current stadium completely. Another option would be Gijón, the current stadium is to smal and there is plenty of space to expand on.

^^

I think that Vigo is closer to Porto, Braga or La Coruña to be an option, if those are the chosen ones. Málaga could be the best option, but it's needed to build a new stadium, and who will pay it?.

The bests options could be Gijón, but the stadium is very small, Murcia, or José Rico Pérez in Alicante, wich will have a rennovation, and Alicante have more potential visitors than others places.

Perhaps Vigo would be an option, but then they would have to reconstruct the current stadium completely.I would say La Coruña is the favourite, but Vigo would have a chance if they manage to reach a quick agreement about building a new stadium.

Another option would be Gijón, the current stadium is to smal and there is plenty of space to expand on.Public institutions have already spent a lot of money in the club to avoid bankrupcy, so I don't see them investing that much. The only chance would be selling the stadium (located in the most expensive area of the city) and building another one in the outskirts, but now it's not the best moment for real state companies and they plan to expand it next year to ~30,000.

The bests options could be Gijón, but the stadium is very small, Murcia, or José Rico Pérez in Alicante, wich will have a rennovation, and Alicante have more potential visitors than others places.IMO Alicante is too close to Valencia and their best club is too tiny to be a real contender.

I hope that 2018 in Canada and in 2022 in China.

I hope that 2018 in Canada and in 2022 in China.

Canada would have A LOT of issues hosting. There's not a single stadium in the country that is even close to being capable of hosting a World Cup match. Every single stadium would have to be new or massively renovated. Even the major cities, Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa would need new stadiums and one of them would have to be at least 80,000. After the World Cup, what would the stadiums be used for? The capacities would be too large for the CFL. On top of that, there aren't a lot of major cities in Canada. Only 6 cities have populations over 1,000,000 and because it's such a large country, they'd probably have to use a pod system like has been proposed for the US, necessitating 12 host cities.

If I were in charge, England would host 2018, the US would host 2022, Spain/Portugal would host 2026 and Australia would host 2030.

I hope that 2018 in Canada and in 2022 in China.

What kind of portuguese are you? :lol:

Portugal had Euro 2004 not so long time ago... I don't think if you get this champs :(

104k Barca's stadium looks amazing!

What kind of portuguese are you? :lol:Actually there is quite a lot of opposition among Portuguese people according to what I read in their subforum. IMO it doesn't make too much sense since a joint bid with Spain is their only chance to host a WC and their level of investment in infraestructure will be pretty low. Even the distribution of the host cities (8:4) is favourable to their interests (we are 4.5:1 in population).

I understand more opposition from Spain, since bidding alone we already have many chances to host it (if not in 2018 for sure the next time the WC comes to Europe).

Well Spain will need 6 or 8 cities. The ones that are sure to be picked are Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Sevilla, Bilbao and Zaragoza. Then there is the posibility that two more cities will be chosen, here I think Gijon, Vigo, Coruña and Murcia are the likely ones since these clubs could have use for a 40000+ stadium.

...

IMO Alicante is too close to Valencia and their best club is too tiny to be a real contender.

Well, now Alicante and Hercules are in the second division, but Hercules has been in first division for years, and this year Hercules is doing a good work in Adelante League. Moreover, Alicante is the fourth populated province in Spain, and a high porcentaje of foreigners from England or Germany live in Alicante, in the Mundial '82, Alicante and Elche had a stadium for the championship.

As much as this bid sounds all very nice in principle, the lopsided nature of it just doesn't sit well with me. I feel that joint bids ideally should be 50-50 splits or not done at all.

Part of me also worries whether the number of European bids may actually help to take the tournament away from the continent altogether.

Part of me also worries whether the number of European bids may actually help to take the tournament away from the continent altogether.

my thoughts exactly, the fight between the European bids may well allow one of the other bids to win since the European votes will be split. i would've liked there to have just been one European bid the whole continent could've got behind to bring it to Europe.

What's the logic behind this bid exactly? We all know Spain could host alone, so why get Portugal involved, especially when it is such an imbalanced proposal?

What kind of portuguese are you? :lol:

Many Portuguese and Spanish are against.

my thoughts exactly, the fight between the European bids may well allow one of the other bids to win since the European votes will be split. i would've liked there to have just been one European bid the whole continent could've got behind to bring it to Europe.

Alot of the voting is on a knockout basis though.

I hope that 2018 in Canada and in 2022 in China.

Alguém com a foto do viaduto do Cacém não podia dizer nada de jeito

my thoughts exactly, the fight between the European bids may well allow one of the other bids to win since the European votes will be split. i would've liked there to have just been one European bid the whole continent could've got behind to bring it to Europe.

Not if they follow the same voting procedure they did in the past. After each round, the last one is eliminated, and the whole thing only comes to an end when one bid has reached more than 50% of the votes. So even if in the first round the pro-European votes are divided to 3 competitors, at a certain point they will concentrate on only one bid (only possible exception would be a heads-up between two European bids).

So there is no need to concentrate on only one bid in advance. Only nessesary thing is an agreement that after having lost their personal favorite, all European and pro-European voters will support annother European contestant.


I suppose that is more or less what MoreOrLess meant, too.

spain should go for it alone

ANY news about the portugal/spain bid? Are the still in or have they pull out?? today was the last day to submit their proposals !

Nobody ever thought about quitting, only some guys from SSC. Even today a FIFA spokesman said that joint bids will be considered.

Many Portuguese and Spanish are against.

Why? It would be good for the countries. Or not?

Some Portuguese have that idea that the country will spend a lot of money again like they did for Euro 2004, although that's wrong. The Spanish think they could do it by themselves.

it's better if they go together, southamerica would support this option because it's better for them (many people from there living in spain and portugal)

Nobody ever thought about quitting, only some guys from SSC. Even today a FIFA spokesman said that joint bids will be considered.

What he actually said was joint bids would be considered between nations who can't host alone. Spain certainly doesn't fall into that category.

What he actually said was joint bids would be considered between nations who can't host alone. Spain certainly doesn't fall into that category.

But Portugal does (unless FIFA thinks otherwise). Then what? Portugal will never be able to host a World Cup because it doesn't have neighbours with the same size? Now that's really fair.

And please, not that story about Morocco again. We don't have links with them, we don't have the same borders, we're not even from the same continent, worse than that: we don't think the same way when it comes to organize a competition.


EDIT: And who is FIFA to decide which countries are or are not capable of hosting a World Cup alone? What if Spain is in an economic situation that doesn't allow them to host the World Cup alone?

EDIT 2: Qatar is full of money, they can host a World Cup by themselves. They could build a lot of stadiums. It doesn't matter what they do with them later, right? So, they're a country capable of hosting alone a World Cup. But do you really think that that is better than Spain and Portugal together? Is that argument really valid and the best way to see things?

Hey, I'm not arguing with you. Your points are pretty valid. I'm just clarifying what the FIFA spokesperson said. Don't shoot the messenger! ;)

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss308/Cynthiatra/ng1086021.jpg

On October 20th the head of the Portuguese Football Federation and the head of the Spanish Football Federation submited to FIFA the proposal for an Iberian Bid for the 2018/2022 World Cup. There will be only one bid commitee wich will have it's headquarters in Madrid, on December 4 the bid will have a big showcase in the World Cup 2010 final draw in Cape Town.


The Likely Venues:

Porto - Dragon Stadium - 50 000
http://i44.tinypic.com/ipmic2.jpg
http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/POR/Dragao5.jpg

Lisbon - Luz Stadium - 65 000
http://www.footballpictures.net/data/media/35/Estdio_da_Luz.JPG
http://www.monofasica.pt/custom/images/0303%20-%20ESTADIO%20DA%20LUZ.jpg

Lisbon - Alvalade Stadium - 50 000
http://www.gvengenharia.pt/images/estadio_sporting.jpg
http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/POR/Alvalade4.jpg

Faro/Loulé - Algarve Stadium - 30 000 + 10 000
http://atlanticofm.com/Novo_portal06/images/stories/estadio_algarve2.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2236/1517138029_6688a8350b.jpg

Madrid - Santiago Bernabeu - 82 000
http://www.todorealmadrid.com/imagenes/estadio_santiago_bernabeu_2.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_xNDEKcP1OvU/R-ZYIo4I6cI/AAAAAAAAACw/d-8TIt6u0dc/S1600-R/Estadio+Santiago+Bernabeu+1+-+%5BReal+Madrid+CF%5D.jpg

Madrid - La Peineta - 70 000
http://stadiony.net/projects/estadio_la_peineta/estadio_la_peineta02.jpg
http://www.belt.es/noticias/2005/julio/01/estad.jpg

Barcelona - Camp Nou - 105 000
http://rickoshea.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/barcelona-new-camp-nou.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_iCbvcNUdjZA/SJDxiDabhII/AAAAAAAAAw0/HGhBnVDdtNo/s400/camp_nou_fosters_oct07_2.jpg

Seville - Olympic Stadium - 60 000
http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/ESP/La_Cartuja_A.jpg
http://www.enfrentearte.com/hotel-ronda/uploaded_images/Cartuja-Stadium-Seville-729874.jpg

Valencia - Nou Mestalla - 72 000
http://estadios.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/valencia01.jpg?w=500&h=288
http://estadios.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/valencia02.jpg?w=500&h=338

Bilbao - New San Mames - 58 000
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t226/urbanity_es/SanMames_4.jpg
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_W8FJjSdH6iY/St3sqrNL0UI/AAAAAAAABJE/bskSjRZxBQM/galeria26804.jpg

Zaragoza - San Jose - 43 000

La coruna - Riazor - 40 000


Map of the Iberian Peninsula
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/6840/mapiberianpeninsula.jpg

surely they will choose the lopera or pizjaun in seville not that athletics stadium1

Contra. Portugal vai ter menos jogos e provavelmente a final vai ser em Espanha.
Prefiro q Portugal faça a Copa do mundo sozinho ou abandone essa idéia de Copa em conjunto para tentar sediar umas Olimpíadas em Lisboa.

Very impressive stadiums. No other European bid will be able to match that.

However, I'm not sure that they will be able to use two stadia in both Madrid and Lisbon.

The bid's two main problems could be:

a) the fact that, in an ideal world, FIFA prefers single nation bids - even if there is only one, joint organizing committee, FIFA will still have to make room for two automatic qualifiers and they would prefer not to do that.

b) Spain hosted the World Cup as recently as 1982 while the other European bids have either never hosted the World Cup or last did so in 1966.

Portugal also held Euro 2004 so it's unlikely they'll get another tournament for a while.

Hope we (well, them) don't get it. We don't want to be the maid of Spain.

No thanks.

From Portugal.


England 2018 / Australia 2022 :cheers:

Portugal also held Euro 2004 so it's unlikely they'll get another tournament for a while.

I'm not sure that that necessarily makes a difference. UEFA and FIFA are separate organizations, with different voters and different voting criteria.

After all, Italy hosted Euro 80 and World Cup 90 - a 10 year gap.

And France hosted Euro 84 and World Cup 98 - a 14 year gap.

Which is exactly the same as the gap between Euro 2004 and WC 2018.

Spain's relatively recent hosting of the World Cup is far more likely to damage the Iberian bid than Portugal's recent hosting of the Euro Championship, IMO.

I fully support this joint bid, it is the only way we can get another international sport event in our country. An olympics is completely out of our league for at least this century and we are too small to host a world cup on our own, we don't have the need nor the money to build 12 40k stadiums plus one 80k stadium for the final.

:crazy:
Anyway you aren't Portuguese.

:crazy:
Anyway you aren't Portuguese.

Actually, I was born 100 mts from Guimarães' Castle so I'm more portuguese than you :lol::lol::lol:

It's certainly the best European bid from a technical viewpoint because it offers the highest capacity and best quality stadia with little investment required. Doesn't this bid provide 8 stadiums with a UEFA 5 star ranking as of the present time? There is also little issue with other aspects, such as accommodation and transport, which to various degrees affect the other European bids.

However, having the best technical bid isn't enough and their two major weaknesses - joint hosts and Spain having hosted the WC in '82 - are serious ones. For this reason, and the fact that I don't think they are that far ahead at all of England from a technical viewpoint, I can't see them getting it. Would be fantastic hosts though.

Actually, I was born 100 mts from Guimarães' Castle so I'm more portuguese than you :lol::lol::lol:

Perhaps a clone born from 100 meters from the Castle of Guimarães during a visit. Maybe.. Portuguese, you isn't.

Perhaps a clone born from 100 meters from the Castle of Guimarães during a visit. Maybe.. Portuguese, you isn't.

So I'm not portuguese because I don't believe our country is ready or will be ready in the near future to host an olympics?

I'm not sure that that necessarily makes a difference. UEFA and FIFA are separate organizations, with different voters and different voting criteria.

After all, Italy hosted Euro 80 and World Cup 90 - a 10 year gap.

And France hosted Euro 84 and World Cup 98 - a 14 year gap.

Which is exactly the same as the gap between Euro 2004 and WC 2018.

Spain's relatively recent hosting of the World Cup is far more likely to damage the Iberian bid than Portugal's recent hosting of the Euro Championship, IMO.

1982-2018 (36 years) is more of a gap than 1974-2006 (32 years). So that shouldn't have a baring either.

The Euros shouldn't have a baring because 3 of the 4 European bids have hosted (at least in part) since 1996. However if it does portugal/spain will be hindered most.

Remember although they are separate organisations (FIFA/UEFA), it doesn't mean FIFA people don't vote on outside influences or reasons. They're not robots who vote only for the best bid, unfortunately...

So I'm not portuguese because I don't believe our country is ready or will be ready in the near future to host an olympics?

First, isn't country isn't yours.
Not only that.
The Portuguese Moderation already advice.

What's your problem Escalabitano? From what see, this is an international forum, so anyone from everywhere in the world is entitled to have an opinion.

First, isn't country isn't yours.
Not only that.
The Portuguese Moderation already advice.

What the hell are you talking about? I've never received a warning from the mods, nor there is a reason for it. I'm not a clone, my nick is taken from my favourite character from the Foundation books saga.

What's your problem Escalabitano? From what see, this is an international forum, so anyone from everywhere in the world is entitled to have an opinion.

He is simply passing it by Portuguese, and isn't.


What the hell are you talking about? I've never received a warning from the mods, nor there is a reason for it. I'm not a clone, my nick is taken from my favourite character from the Foundation books saga.

Do you know Barra?

My reasons for the no: The cream of Portuguese are against, all I talked about it don't want, most Portuguese Forum also not.
Portugal and Spain have different dimensions, if we had a neighbor like Greece, Hungary or Netherlands, all right, would be balanced, but Spain is 5x larger than Portugal in area and 4x in population. The distribution of games will be extremely in favor of Spain, naturally. After all, the event will only have 3 stadiums in Portugal (Estádio da Luz and Estádio de Alvalade in Lisbon, Estádio do Dragão in Porto). If we had Coimbra and the Algarve for example it was better, but not even that. I'm totally against.

How would Lisboa and Madrid both feature two stadia?

He is simply passing it by Portuguese, and isn't.

Mas quem é que diz que eu não sou português? Eu sou tão português como tu, se calhar mais até.

Estádio Algarve will probably be one of the stadiums, since Macário Correia wants to upgrade it. In fact, Portugal will have more matches than the difference of number of stadiums and population would suggest.


I don't believe La Peineta is going to be chosen. Even if it's bigger than Alvalade, I don't believe Villar won't let Portugal have those two stadiums in Lisbon (and.... is La Peineta really going to be built? I mean... for which Olympics? 2012? 2016?...)


Escalabitano, speak for yourself when you say that we don't want the World Cup. The truth is that when I see comments from those opposing this bid (and I don't mean SSC, I mean everywhere), 95% say incredibly stupid stuff revealing that they really don't know what they're talking about.


Yet, I also don't believe that this World Cup will come to Portugal and Spain. It's true that we'll get all the Conmebol votes; but when it comes to the others.... I don't know. And Blatter is Russia biased.


P.S.: Escalabitano, não tás a confundir o gajo com o Portugues?

By the way, this is the official website, although it's still under construction:

http://www.candidaturaiberica.com/

My reasons for the no: The cream of Portuguese are against, all I talked about it don't want, most Portuguese Forum also not.
Portugal and Spain have different dimensions, if we had a neighbor like Greece, Hungary or Netherlands, all right, would be balanced, but Spain is 5x larger than Portugal in area and 4x in population. The distribution of games will be extremely in favor of Spain, naturally. After all, the event will only have 3 stadiums in Portugal (Estádio da Luz and Estádio de Alvalade in Lisbon, Estádio do Dragão in Porto). If we had Coimbra and the Algarve for example it was better, but not even that. I'm totally against.

Well, but Portugal is too small to host a World Cup alone. I believe a joint with Spain is the only chance for Portugal.

Well, but Portugal is too small to host a World Cup alone. I believe a joint with Spain is the only chance for Portugal.

It's bigger than Belgium and the Netherlands together (not in population, of course :D) and Qatar, and just a bit smaller than the Republic of Korea (not in population, of course :D Part II).

It's bigger than Belgium and the Netherlands together (not in population, of course :D) and Qatar, and just a bit smaller than the Republic of Korea (not in population, of course :D Part II).

Land size has nothing to do with it though. Population is what matters.

Belgium is the same size as Portugal, in that respect, and the Netherlands is larger.

Bilbao, huh? So, the Basque clamor for sovereignty from Spain except when WC bidding rolls around? Gotcha.

Land size has nothing to do with it though. Population is what matters.

Belgium is the same size as Portugal, in that respect, and the Netherlands is larger.

In that case... would a World Cup ibe more successful in India than in Portugal?

What would you reply if I said that India is a lot bigger than Russia or the United States?

Yeah! I get your point, don't worry.

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss308/Cynthiatra/ng1086021.jpg

:D

I don't want Portugal/Spain to win this bid. Like it has already been said, Spain is around 5x bigger than Portugal and will receive the bulk of the games. I'd prefer to see Portugal do a World Cup alone in the future.

Also can someone tell me why Spain even agreed to do a joint bid? They are perfectly capable of hosting a World Cup by themselves.

Portugal will never be able to do a World Cup on its own, it's just beyond our capabilities, what would we do with 10/12 stadiums with 40 000+ capacity each, and a stadium with 80 000 for the final?

It's certainly the best European bid from a technical viewpoint because it offers the highest capacity and best quality stadia with little investment required. Doesn't this bid provide 8 stadiums with a UEFA 5 star ranking as of the present time? There is also little issue with other aspects, such as accommodation and transport, which to various degrees affect the other European bids.

However, having the best technical bid isn't enough and their two major weaknesses - joint hosts and Spain having hosted the WC in '82 - are serious ones. For this reason, and the fact that I don't think they are that far ahead at all of England from a technical viewpoint, I can't see them getting it. Would be fantastic hosts though.
So what? Germany hosted a WC after 32 years,why can't Spain host another after 36 or 40 years?

So what? Germany hosted a WC after 32 years,why can't Spain host another after 36 or 40 years?

Nobody says Spain can't host, but it certainly counts against them. I think they included 1st time hosts Portugal on the ticket to try and offset this.

Saying all this people on here get caught up in the stadium design issues when really, fifa politics will decide who gets the nod, not architectural details.

Portugal had an EURO, so why it couldn´t host a world cup? why not? it has new stadiums and I think they can build two or three more

I want my country England to win 2018..but if not a Spain/Portugal bid would be an excellent and superb World Cup:cheers:

I don't want Portugal/Spain to win this bid. Like it has already been said, Spain is around 5x bigger than Portugal and will receive the bulk of the games. I'd prefer to see Portugal do a World Cup alone in the future.

Also can someone tell me why Spain even agreed to do a joint bid? They are perfectly capable of hosting a World Cup by themselves.

I don't know either why Spain wants this. Probably because '82 is still too near. But it's obvious that Portugal needs Spain if it ever wants to host a WC.

Portugal had an EURO, so why it couldn´t host a world cup? why not? it has new stadiums and I think they can build two or three more

Some of those stadiums are now sitting idle already. If Holland is too small to host one on its own already then it's obvious Portugal can't host one either.

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss308/Cynthiatra/ng1086021.jpg

:D

Uma bolinha de Berlim com bolor? :lol:

Land size has nothing to do with it though. Population is what matters.

Belgium is the same size as Portugal, in that respect, and the Netherlands is larger.

Portugal is greater than Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg together). In the population doesn't, but if only the people that mattered, Spain has had. Spain is bigger than Germany but in population, Germany is much bigger.

Well, but Portugal is too small to host a World Cup alone. I believe a joint with Spain is the only chance for Portugal.

No.


Portugal had an EURO, so why it couldn´t host a world cup? why not? it has new stadiums and I think they can build two or three more

Yes, the 10 stadiums built for the euro may be increased temporarily and without great cost, for an event like this. Missing 2 stadiums, fixed in the Jamor National Stadium and pick up another city for a new one.
But now isn't a good time for that. There are major projects (high speed train, the new Lisbon airport) and will spend much money.

Nobody says Spain can't host, but it certainly counts against them. I think they included 1st time hosts Portugal on the ticket to try and offset this.

Saying all this people on here get caught up in the stadium design issues when really, fifa politics will decide who gets the nod, not architectural details.


I don't think that will count in the EXCO decision.
Considering the bids,I think it might be a battle between this joint and England for one WC and between Russia and Australia or USA(but unlikely) for the other.

No.

:lol:Where would Portugal get the money in its ongoing economic crisis that has affected this country since the early 2000s?

So what? Germany hosted a WC after 32 years,why can't Spain host another after 36 or 40 years?

The issue is that every bid has to be considered in relation to what the other candidates are offering and represent; they cannot be seen in isolation. In this bidding process, two of their European rivals have never hosted a WC before, whilst the other won't have for over half a century if successful. In this respect, and all other things being equal, delegates might believe those bids are more deserving than the Spain/Portugal one . These 'emotional' factors often play a big part, as we saw in Copenhagen.

Personally, I think Russia has a really good chance of winning. As well as never having hosted a WC before, their bid seems good from a technical viewpoint and it is a rising power in European football with lots of investment pouring in. They could also present themselves as a kind of Eurasian bid, with some stadiums being only 3 hours behind/ahead of China and Western Europe, for example.

Everybody knows WC2018 will be hosted in England, not very difficult to guess.

Spain should have qualified alone, I too wonder why they preferred to go with Portugal... I wish luck to Spain in their bid. :cheers:

:lol:Where would Portugal get the money in its ongoing economic crisis that has affected this country since the early 2000s? :

But now isn't a good time for that.


Spain should have qualified alone,
[2]

I too wonder why they preferred to go with Portugal... I wish luck to Spain in their bid. :cheers:

Because Portugal and Spain are two greater football nations, easier to fight England. This is the only interest of Spain for Portugal.

http://www.fpf.pt/fpf/est_global.ShowImg?pSchema=objectos&pTable=imagem_detalhe&pColumn=imagem&pKey=idimgdet&pId=21137

http://videos.sapo.pt/lZIRgqfpuJWIQV5mrPnp

http://videos.sapo.pt/UzgOTToZkej1i6VTQtml

Wonderful logo....







:puke:

I highly doubt if they get the tournament, that Spain would miss out the Costa del Sol completely.

Wonder how easy it is to add seats to La Rosaleda?

I don't believe La Peineta is going to be chosen. Even if it's bigger than Alvalade, I don't believe Villar won't let Portugal have those two stadiums in Lisbon (and.... is La Peineta really going to be built? I mean... for which Olympics? 2012? 2016?...)



La Peineta is going to be built. it will be the new stadium of Atlético de Madrid and it's suposse to be finished by 2012/2013 footbal season. works begin by early 2010

the design has changed a bit too. this is the new design

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4569/2nuevoestadioatletico20.jpg

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2029/3nuevoestadioatletico20.jpg

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/1503/nuevoestadioatletico201z.jpg

http://www.fpf.pt/fpf/est_global.ShowImg?pSchema=objectos&pTable=imagem_detalhe&pColumn=imagem&pKey=idimgdet&pId=21137
Is that the best logo these two nations can come up with? :lol: ugly :puke:

i'm praying for we lose this contest

I would like this bid to win to strengthen relations between Spain and Portugal in matters like high speed trains like Madrid-Lisboa or Oporto-A Coruña.

But I think Russia and England are very strong bids, and maybe to organize this football world cup would damage Madrid possibilitie's of an Olympic games.

Is that the best logo these two nations can come up with? :lol: ugly :puke:

Have you seen the others?

My reasons for the no: The cream of Portuguese are against, all I talked about it don't want, most Portuguese Forum also not.
Portugal and Spain have different dimensions, if we had a neighbor like Greece, Hungary or Netherlands, all right, would be balanced, but Spain is 5x larger than Portugal in area and 4x in population. The distribution of games will be extremely in favor of Spain, naturally. After all, the event will only have 3 stadiums in Portugal (Estádio da Luz and Estádio de Alvalade in Lisbon, Estádio do Dragão in Porto). If we had Coimbra and the Algarve for example it was better, but not even that. I'm totally against.

Check it from this point of view, you wont have to do a big investment you will have the same publicity as Spain cause Portugal's name will appear as much as spanish + you will see some good football. Otherwise you won't have anything in a really long period of time...

Think about it. This or nothing... Nothing is not too much eh?

I don't want Portugal/Spain to win this bid. Like it has already been said, Spain is around 5x bigger than Portugal and will receive the bulk of the games. I'd prefer to see Portugal do a World Cup alone in the future.

Also can someone tell me why Spain even agreed to do a joint bid? They are perfectly capable of hosting a World Cup by themselves.

To make you a favour... :lol:

To make you a favour... :lol:

It's symbiotic. Spain wants votes from countries like Brazil.

It's symbiotic. Spain wants votes from countries like Brazil.

Brazil and who else?

Brazil and who else?

Who knows? We're probably more charming. At least we were in 1999. ;)

Don't forget that individuals like Havelange have huge influence in FIFA.

Spain is bidding with Portugal because they thought this was the only way they could be stronger than England. Two years ago England seemed absolutely unbeatable, and we were not sure as of the extension of FIFA's rules against joint bids. As it turns out, joint bids are not that well regarded and England is not that strong.

And Portugal is bidding with Spain because it's the only way they can get a WC.

In which part of Madrid will be the new atletico's stadium?

Spain is bidding with Portugal because they thought this was the only way they could be stronger than England. Two years ago England seemed absolutely unbeatable, and we were not sure as of the extension of FIFA's rules against joint bids. As it turns out, joint bids are not that well regarded and England is not that strong.

And Portugal is bidding with Spain because it's the only way they can get a WC.

Spain and Portugal bid was made this year, not two years ago.

Spain and Portugal bid was made this year, not two years ago.

But two years ago was probably when the Spanish started considering the bid, and whether Portugal should be involved. But that was just a wild guess. Substitute that time-reference for one of your preference :)

In which part of Madrid will be the new atletico's stadium?

It's the stadium that would have been Olympic if Madrid won 2016 games. It's at the east, in San Blas neighborhood.

But two years ago was probably when the Spanish started considering the bid, and whether Portugal should be involved. But that was just a wild guess. Substitute that time-reference for one of your preference :)

You are correct, it was in 2007 that the portuguese federation suggested the idea to their spanish counterpart:

I have an article from that time. (sorry in portuguese only)


Mundial 2018: Espanha pondera organização com Portugal

O presidente da Federação Portuguesa de Futebol (FPF), Gilberto Madail, sugeriu à Real Federação Espanhola de Futebol (RFEF) a organização conjunta do Campeonato do Mundo de 2018, revelou este sábado o presidente do organismo espanhol, Angel Maria Villar.
«O presidente da Federação (Portuguesa de Futebol) falou-me nessa possibilidade e eu não o contestei. Se não contestei é porque estou a pensar», disse Angel Maria Villar, à entrada para o I Fórum do Futebol, que decorre no Centro Nacional de Exposições, em Santarém.

O presidente da RFEF considerou que «é sempre interessante» organizar um Mundial, mas Gilberto Madaíl deixou, em declarações à Lusa, a advertência: «Ideias, ideias! Mas, cuidado, nunca podemos passar das ideias à prática sem falar com os Governos», lembrou.

Em Novembro de 2007, Gilberto Madail considerou «uma ideia peregrina» a sugestão de Portugal organizar o Campeonato do Mundo de futebol de 2018, salientando que ainda faltavam 11 anos. Na mesma altura, o presidente da FPF qualificou de arrojadas as decisões de Inglaterra e, conjuntamente, Holanda e Bélgica, candidatarem-se à organização da competição.

Diário Digital / Lusa

I think a Spanish/Portuguese WC would be great. Not only are the stadiums amazing and a final in Camp Nou would be fantastic. But because of the fact both countries had relatively recent soccer tournaments, the chances of getting the nod should be good. Besides, sun, sun and sun....what other European bidders offer that? :banana:

But they had until this year the opportunity of doing it only by themselves... and they didn't.

In which part of Madrid will be the new atletico's stadium?

east of the city. metro station: Estadio Olímpico Line:7

a photo

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5641/10053776.jpg

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=40.435646,-3.606777&spn=0,359.956055&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=40.435426,-3.606622&panoid=1xBYM64DTe6cy4ebkYxvvA&cbp=12,57.39,,0,-3.61

As far as i know the C value of the 3rd tier at bernabeu is under C90.
SO the net capacity will be under 80.

Camp Nou Final? :)

Official video (well, it's not the 50 minute one they've shown in South Africa and Angola)

(you can tell this was made by a Spanish. First of all, they call Oporto to the city of Porto. And last, Deco plays in... Braga??? :lol:)


bXgF2bLFI20

the website of Portugal/Spain bid

http://www.candidaturaiberica.com/eng

the website of Portugal/Spain bid

http://www.candidaturaiberica.com/eng

Finally! I was getting tired of that "under construction" message.

Para mim podem enfiar a candidatura num sitio que ca sei....
Prefiro uns jogos olimpicos sozinhos (penso que temos capacidade para tal e era um grande desenvolvimente ao remodelar o Jamor e criar uma cidade olimpica que depois dos jogos iria ser usada pelos nosssos atletas que o merecem) do que tar a fazer de escravo de espanha onde so temos 3 estadios.
Nao temos a capacidade deles mas pa ser assim mais vale a pena nao fazer.

^^English here.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002RJQT84?tag=anarchojose08-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=B002RJQT84&adid=1FQSFGYYWFNTN7EPCPMA&What he actually said was joint bids would be considered between nations who can't host alone. Spain certainly doesn't fall into that category.

yup, agreed

I don't support this bid because Spain will end up being overrepresented. Spain and Portugal are able to host the World Cup by themselves and don't need this joint big crap.

Spain may be but i'm not so sure about Portugal, as a joint bit it's much more exciting

I don't support this bid because Spain will end up being overrepresented. Spain and Portugal are able to host the World Cup by themselves and don't need this joint big crap.

Actually, Portugal cannot host by themselves. Ideally it should be 6 in Spain and 6 in Portugal, but in reality it will probably be 8 in Spain and 4 in Portugal.

7 in Spain and 5 in Portugal could be a compromise. Lisbon having 2 stadiums is unideal. but what can you do?

Actually, Portugal cannot host by themselves.

We could, if we were willing to. It's just plus 10k seats per stadium.

Lisbon having 2 stadiums is unideal. but what can you do?

Sydney having 2 stadiums and London three is unideal, but what can you do?

Is it just me, or isn't it pretty wierd that Pep Guardiola is supporting Qatar for 2022 when Spain is bidding for the same tournament?

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He can support Spain for 2018 and Qatar for 2022:nuts:

Catalunya is not Spain?

Sorry for post in portuguese in the other post.
I would agree with the joint bid if Portugal had more rights in it.
Actually it looks Spain says and Portugal does and that way I don't aceppt.
Portugal have 3 stadiums that can host and other 2 citys were making projects to be able to make the stadiums with the permited capacity for can host matches too. Why we shouldn't use them?
And Spain by this way will get the opening match and the final, so it's like they are almost hosting alone.
I don't want to see spanish and other people saying portugal only hosted a wc thanks to spain because i know in the future we can host it, if we could host a euro why not host a WC too? And before a WC i preferee the Olympics in Portugal

Para mim podem enfiar a candidatura num sitio que ca sei....
Prefiro uns jogos olimpicos sozinhos (penso que temos capacidade para tal e era um grande desenvolvimente ao remodelar o Jamor e criar uma cidade olimpica que depois dos jogos iria ser usada pelos nosssos atletas que o merecem) do que tar a fazer de escravo de espanha onde so temos 3 estadios.
Nao temos a capacidade deles mas pa ser assim mais vale a pena nao fazer.


No way we have capacity to organize an Olympic Games, it's way beyond our capabilities, the only country wiht our size and similar economy that was able to organize an OG in the last 30/40 years was Greece and that was due to historic reasons and we all know how bad those games were and how much damage those 16 billions dollars caused in the greek economy. There's no chance that the IOC will ever give it's top prize to us in this century.

No way we have capacity to organize an Olympic Games, it's way beyond our capabilities, the only country wiht our size and similar economy that was able to organize an OG in the last 30/40 years was Greece and that was due to historic reasons and we all know how bad those games were and how much damage those 16 billions dollars caused in the greek economy. There's no chance that the IOC will ever give it's top prize to us in this century.

As maybe you said portugal wasnt able to host euro and in euro we wasted money building 8 or 10 stadiums im not sure will in Olympics you waste money in one stadium and an olympic village that will be more usefull to us for our athletes than an Euro or a WC that each stadium you build wont have more use after the competition.

As maybe you said portugal wasnt able to host euro and in euro we wasted money building 8 or 10 stadiums im not sure will in Olympics you waste money in one stadium and an olympic village that will be more usefull to us for our athletes than an Euro or a WC that each stadium you build wont have more use after the competition.

That's not just a stadium and olympic village, an olympic games need an aquatics center (wich will cost at least 150 million euros), 5 indoor arenas (300 million euros), tennis Center (50 million), an Internation Broadcast Center (100 Mllion euros), a Velodrome (150 million euros), a rugby Stadium (100 million euros) and that's lowballed and you can't say that Lisbon has those infrastructures because they are too spread out, the IOC wants clusters.

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I would agree with the joint bid if Portugal had more rights in it.

That's our fault. We're the ones who don't want to spend money in stadiums. That's the only reason why we've only three, since the Spanish were actually asking for more Portuguese stadiums!!!

Actually it looks Spain says and Portugal does and that way I don't aceppt.

Read above.

Portugal have 3 stadiums that can host and other 2 citys were making projects to be able to make the stadiums with the permited capacity for can host matches too. Why we shouldn't use them?

Because they were willing to do that if it was the State to pay for it. Now, I also want that for Coimbra!

And Spain by this way will get the opening match and the final, so it's like they are almost hosting alone.

Once again, that's our fault for not having a 80k stadium. Or FIFA's fault.

And before a WC i preferee the Olympics in Portugal

I'm not even going to answer this. Reality has shown already how this is... hum... sorry for the word... absurd.

Because they were willing to do that if it was the State to pay for it. Now, I also want that for Coimbra!


And we don't have money for that? The income will be much more than the money you waste because you wont waste 100million euros upgrading 2 or even 3 stadiums. You can even use temporary stands in those stands, that way you would waste much more than the total income.

And about the Olympics why it is impossible? I never said it had to be actually but in future, and as i said before will be much more usefull than the white elephants we wasted money in euro, that you a stadium of 25k stadium for a team that puts 1k per match or even less.
Our athletes don't have places to train in portugal and they already said that and they give us more reasons to smile than our football players etc.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002RJQT84?tag=anarchojose08-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=B002RJQT84&adid=1FQSFGYYWFNTN7EPCPMA&why not just use private funds to upgrade crap? if no private investors want to, if the owners dont want to, then it doesnt need to get done.

Filipe...have a look to the country that organized the Olympics before China...

Sydney having 2 stadiums and London three is unideal, but what can you do?

Sydney having 2 stadiums is a reasonable choice based on the stadium situation in Australia, compare that to Portugal, sure Lisbon has 2 stadiums that could host, the country is small, but still, one would like to see 5 cities be put up for their bid.

London is not having 3 stadiums! Who said anything about England's bid involving London using 3 stadiums? 2 at tops, but even then you got a wide selection of cities and stadiums to choose from.

We could, if we were willing to. It's just plus 10k seats per stadium.

Technically you cannot considering the design of most stadiums in Portugal, even if you did propose using Euro 2004 venues, much of these stadiums would require complete overhauls costing millions that seem too much effort just to add 10,000 seats. Most of them aren't design just for the simple 2nd tier upgrade, not to mention that most of your cities probably don't even need a 40,000 seater stadium (even if you do propose to downsize them post World Cup).

Also, where will you get the 80,000 seater final venue? Upgrade the national stadium perhaps? Build a new one? Upgrade an existing one?

Something in a smaller scale like a Euro or Under whatever World Cup you can do, but not necessarily the real deal. Which is why you're teaming up with Spain in order to get some WC glory.

Please, be realistic. Portugal will never host a World Cup by itself… as neither Spain, with 4,5 times Portugal´s population, has hardly any chance. The only way they could ever host a WC is bidding together, both you like it or not. I think 8-4 stadiums is unfair to Spanish potential, realistic would be 9-3 but that wouldn´t be a true joint bid… so a 8-4 share out seems to be fair at last. 7-5 looks like a utopia.
Of course, as a general rule this is not valid for anglosaxon nations, as we all know, this playing rules always benefit them... I would say England will host 2018 WC, USA 2022 and Australia 2026. :nuts: What do you think?

^^ That would suck but I also think that many rules in the world as a whole benefit the anglosaxon nations :ohno:

In my opinion the stadiums should be 9 for Spain and 3 for Portugal although that is still Portugal's favour but probably it would look unfair a joint bid with 10 to 2 stadiums for one of the countries. Though I think Spain could and should have applied alone.

Yes, Spain is the one that could host alone. We're being realistic, Portugal is just the one that can't host the World Cup on it's own.

Why would 9 stadiums in Spain and 3 in Portugal not be a "true joint bid" neufert?

This is a country of 10 million people, of which there are only 3 clubs who are well supported. Spain needs Portugals stadiums in Lisbon and Porto to have a great bid, and Portugal, well, they need Spain if they want to host a World Cup. They could even give Lisbon the title of being the city with 2 stadiums.

I'm sure the Portuguese people would be extremely supportive of such a bid. You would be foolish not to.

I like the videos and the slogan about candidatura Ibérica, but I miss Cristiano Ronaldo saying that in the 1st video.

Please, be realistic. Portugal will never host a World Cup by itself… as neither Spain, with 4,5 times Portugal´s population, has hardly any chance.

Spain already organised 1982 FIFA World Cup...

Spain already organised 1982 FIFA World Cup...

Well, in 36-40 years things (politically talking) will have changed enough to make situation different. Just have a look at the kind of countries that are winning the last bids. I think the only chance we have (Spain & Portugal) nowadays is to play together, maybe only Spain by itself could but I don´t believe that one would be a "winning bid".

Why would 9 stadiums in Spain and 3 in Portugal not be a "true joint bid" neufert?

Maybe i didn´t explain that properly. Let´s see now: I meant that a real joint bid can´t give Portugal just 3 stadiums. It would be a "ghost joint bid" because both parts are not in similar conditions. I believe 8-4 stadiums is fair enough.

Well, hope have explained myself correctly.

Well, in 36-40 years things (politically talking) will have changed enough to make situation different. Just have a look at the kind of countries that are winning the last bids. I think the only chance we have (Spain & Portugal) nowadays is to play together, maybe only Spain by itself could but I don´t believe that one would be a "winning bid".

Yes, Spain is technically able to organise it, but would never win alone, I agree with that, and I would like this bid to be the first step in a closer collaboration Spain-Portugal.


Maybe i didn´t explain that properly. Let´s see now: I meant that a real joint bid can´t give Portugal just 3 stadiums. It would be a "ghost joint bid" because both parts are not in similar conditions. I believe 8-4 stadiums is fair enough.

I think 8-4 would be fair too.

Catalunya is not Spain?

Oh, please. A WC in Spain would benefit Catalonia alot!

Sydney having 2 stadiums is a reasonable choice based on the stadium situation in Australia, compare that to Portugal, sure Lisbon has 2 stadiums that could host, the country is small, but still, one would like to see 5 cities be put up for their bid.

London is not having 3 stadiums! Who said anything about England's bid involving London using 3 stadiums? 2 at tops, but even then you got a wide selection of cities and stadiums to choose from.

Having Luz and Alvalade is also reasonable considering Portugal.

Technically you cannot considering the design of most stadiums in Portugal, even if you did propose using Euro 2004 venues, much of these stadiums would require complete overhauls costing millions that seem too much effort just to add 10,000 seats. Most of them aren't design just for the simple 2nd tier upgrade

It's just 10k... that's hardly a tier for a big stadium.

We don't need a track in Coimbra (or Leiria), There's a lot of space in Aveiro. Also in Luz, Alvalade, Dragão (a bit less here, but isn't 50k enough already?), you can expand Algarve's top tiers and so on.

not to mention that most of your cities probably don't even need a 40,000 seater stadium (even if you do propose to downsize them post World Cup).

You shouldn't evaluate Portuguese cities by their population, because our urban organization is a mess. If Coimbra had the same organization as a Spanish city (like Badajoz) its population would be around 300k or more.

A good example? The Centro region in Portugal has almost the same size and population than Galicia. Yet, nobody questions Vigo or La Coruña, right?

Also, where will you get the 80,000 seater final venue? Upgrade the national stadium perhaps? Build a new one? Upgrade an existing one?

Doing it at Luz would be quite easy.

Something in a smaller scale like a Euro or Under whatever World Cup you can do, but not necessarily the real deal. Which is why you're teaming up with Spain in order to get some WC glory.

The reason why we're doing it with Spain is because we don't want to spend more money in stadiums. Actually, our Government wouldn't even support it if it had to spend more millions, especially during this crisis.

That's the reason why there's only three Portuguese stadiums on the bid. The only ones with more than 40k seats.

Actually, that's also one of the reasons why Spain wants this joint bid. Yes, they still have to build new stadiums, yet with Portugal the number is reduced, and you can't say they're going through nice times.

In the Luz you could close the 3rd tier, that would add some more seats but i dont know huw much maybe around 10k even and you still can make the stands closer to the field. In alvalade you can make the stands close to the field. In Dragao you can close the goal stands that are opened that would add maybe 10k seats. In Coimbra you have one stand that is diferent from the others 3 and you can still remove the track. In Algarve you can change 2 stands and maybe make a stand as was Sydney Olympic Stadium. Leiria wont bid. In Braga you can add one temporary stand that was what they were thinking to do.

^^that would totally kill the desing of the stadiums :ohno: specially Dragao and Luz.

And let´s not even start with how you could do it...Destroying running tracks (Aka said Leiria isn´t necessary when we already received some European meetings there...) to put more seats there, in Coimbra and Algarve is just a silly idea...Then we would have a Coimbra stadium with their amazing average of supporters in an even bigger stadium :nuts: Even if it was temporary seats that would look awful! The only aceptable idea is a new stand for Braga...and even there that would ruin a piece of art!

I´m a supporter of the bid cause I like football a lot but I think we could spent our money in some other things (TGV...airports...maybe another Expo) and I really don´get how Spain need us (or vice-versa actually) to host a World Cup.

The best thing would be 4 stadiums. The big three plus Algarve due to the location...and a "Sydney solution" there would look good :yes:

one reason i wouldnt support this bid is because people in spain are very racist. just look at the games in la liga, its a disgrace. they are in the same line as the fascists of italy. down with racism, spanish supporters dont deserve this. even you ex coach(luis aragones) is a racist bastard. no world cup for spain.
ps. im white

one reason i wouldnt support this bid is because people in spain are very racist. just look at the games in la liga, its a disgrace. they are in the same line as the fascists of italy. down with racism, spanish supporters dont deserve this. even you ex coach(luis aragones) is a racist bastard. no world cup for spain.
ps. im white

:eek2:

one reason i wouldnt support this bid is because people in spain are very racist. just look at the games in la liga, its a disgrace. they are in the same line as the fascists of italy. down with racism, spanish supporters dont deserve this. even you ex coach(luis aragones) is a racist bastard. no world cup for spain.

ps. im a wanker

Fixed.

Fixed.

:lol:


Anyway I´d like to know which facts pushed him to think in that way (leaving out all those "rigurous details" about spanish soccer supporters or about our former national team coach). Taking into account that most of us are a mixture of several races that lived throughout centuries here and that during a decade millions of migrants have come here without remarkable conflicts ...
Well, there are racist bastards everywhere but I don´t think that´s a feature that characterise spanish people.

Edit: wait a minute. Now I realize that maybe kosova-fener´s attitude has a lot to see with the non-recognition, that the spanish government does, of your Kosovo. Am I wrong?

one reason i wouldnt support this bid is because people in spain are very racist. just look at the games in la liga, its a disgrace. they are in the same line as the fascists of italy. down with racism, spanish supporters dont deserve this. even you ex coach(luis aragones) is a racist bastard. no world cup for spain.
ps. im white

How typical... A kosovar crying about racism while he is killing all the serbs in his own land. :ohno:
Look to your own backyard before you start blaming others, eh?

one reason i wouldnt support this bid is because people in spain are very racist. just look at the games in la liga, its a disgrace. they are in the same line as the fascists of italy. down with racism, spanish supporters dont deserve this. even you ex coach(luis aragones) is a racist bastard. no world cup for spain.

So when was the last time you have been to Spain?

ps. im white

That´s your problem.

one reason i wouldnt support this bid is because people in spain are very racist. just look at the games in la liga, its a disgrace. they are in the same line as the fascists of italy. down with racism, spanish supporters dont deserve this. even you ex coach(luis aragones) is a racist bastard. no world cup for spain.
ps. im white


could you please tell me just one country in Europe hosting more million inmigrants than Spain during the last 10 years?

could you tell me what racist, facist or far right party has representation on the spanish parlamient as it happens in France, the UK, Austria, Italy or the Netherlands?

Could you please tell me what´s the racist attacks ratio in Spain when compared to France, Uk, Germany or any other country?

Could you please educated yourself before poiting at anyone as racist just because you from time to time watch football on TV?

:lol:



Edit: wait a minute. Now I realize that maybe kosova-fener´s attitude has a lot to see with the non-recognition, that the spanish government does, of your Kosovo. Am I wrong?


Now i do understand this guy...such a childish behavior :lol::lol::lol:

For me stadium in Braga is disaster
I hate it

For me stadium in Braga is disaster
I hate it

Taste is a funny thing, I love it. Though I can understand you.
Atleast it is a stadium which is unique and on what you can have a strong opinion.

Taste is a funny thing, I love it. Though I can understand you.
Atleast it is a stadium which is unique and on what you can have a strong opinion.

I respect your taste too

I respect your taste too

Thanks, it is a stadium to have a clear opinion about. Either you love it or you hate it.

could you please tell me just one country in Europe hosting more million inmigrants than Spain during the last 10 years?

could you tell me what racist, facist or far right party has representation on the spanish parlamient as it happens in France, the UK, Austria, Italy or the Netherlands?

Could you please tell me what´s the racist attacks ratio in Spain when compared to France, Uk, Germany or any other country?

Could you please educated yourself before poiting at anyone as racist just because you from time to time watch football on TV?

Regardless of Spanish society as a whole (I don't suppose that it is any worse or better than any other major western European country), you cannot deny that there have been a number of instances recently of racism within Spanish stadiums.

In particular, I can remember when Spain played against England a year or two ago and large sections of the Spanish crowd made monkey noises whenever England's black players (particularly Shaun Wright Phillips) received the ball.

That's not to say that that should necessarily be a reason for Iberia not winning the bid. But I hope that it's something that the Spanish authorities are working on.

The last thing that anyone should do is to pretend that the problem doesn't exist. It does exist. So don't stick your heads in the sand. Racism used to blight English football too. But the authorities have been tireless in the fight against racism within football in England and it has now been virtually eradicated. That's not an excuse to relax, though. We must be vigilant that it is never allowed to creep back in.

It's time that the authorities in Spain took the same measures that have worked so well in England.

Going from the official Spain & Portugal 2018/22 bid website I was really surprised Portugal are only putting forward 3 stadiums, 2 of which are in Lisbon. Anyway going from this website here is my list of the 12 stadiums I would like to get picked, this is going from the criteria of capacity and geographical spread:

FINAL 12 STADIUMS

Portugal

LISBON- Estadio de Luz 65,647
LISBON- Estadio Alvalade 50,300
PORTO- Estadio do Dragao 50,106

Spain

MADRID- Santiago Bernabeu 80,533
BARCELONA- Nou Camp 98,700 (Expanding to 106,000)
VALENCIA- Nuevo Mestalla 74,000
SEVILLA- Estadio Olympico de Sevilla 57,586
BILBAO- Nuevo San Mames Barria 53,100
ZARAGOZA- Nuevo Estadio 50,000
MALAGA- Estadio Nueva Rosaleda 45,000
A CORUNA- Estadio Riazor 35,600 (Would need to be expanded)
MERCIA- Estadio Jose Rico 29,681 (Would need to be expanded)


RESERVE STADIUMS

Portugal

AVEIRO- Municipal de Aveiro 30,678 (Would need to be expanded)
FARO- Estadio Algarve 30,305 (Would need to be expanded)

Spain

MADRID- Estadio Nuevo Estadio de Madrid 69,600
BARCELONA- El Prat 41,000
SEVILLA- Estadio Sanchez Pizjuan 43,172
ELCHE- Estadio Martinez Valero 36,017 (Would need to be expanded)

Please tell me what you think of my final 12 list and the reserve list.

I would pick Gijon or Murcia over Alicante.

And expanded Sánchez Pizjuán instead of the Olympic Stadium Sevilla.

I agree with you, Spanish authorities must take measures against any kind of racism in football stadiums. Otherwise I think your head is stuck in the sand if you think that racism is "virtually eradicated" in English football.

I agree with you, Spanish authorities must take measures against any kind of racism in football stadiums. Otherwise I think your head is stuck in the sand if you think that racism is "virtually eradicated" in English football.

As I said, the authorities in Britain can't afford to relax. We have to remain forever vigilant.

Of course there are still racists in England - proportionally as many as there in Spain, I don't doubt. But those scenes that we witnessed when large sections of Spanish supporters subjected the black English players to vile monkey chants..........that sort of thing never happens in English stadiums any more.

A few quotes from an article that appeared on the NBC website last year:

“In Spain, there is a profound problem and the fight against racism hasn’t been taken seriously. The problem is a lack of education and sensibility when it comes to tackling racism,” Esteban Ibarra, head of the Movement Against Intolerance, told The Associated Press.

“The public would react positively to a campaign, but there is a real lack of political push in this fight.”

Monkey chants still rain down on players across the country, with Barcelona striker Samuel Eto’o of Cameroon nearly quitting a game at Zaragoza in February 2006 because of the abuse.

“When I first experienced it, I didn’t even hear it. It was reporters that brought it to my attention,” said Julian De Guzman, a Canadian of Filipino-Jamaican heritage who plays for Deportivo La Coruna. “Then I was watching (a replay of) the game and I was like ’Wow.’ It was pretty surprising and kind of disappointing.

“The fines are never enough. They're just a slap of the hand and they’re back at it again. It doesn’t really do anything.”

Last month, Real Madrid was fined 3,000 euros ($3,900) after some fans displayed fascist banners, made gestures and chanted slogans with reference to the death of their opponents and the gas chamber.

This is all in addition to Luis Aragones' racist remarks about Thierry Henry and the racist abuse suffered by Lewis Hamilton at the Spanish Grand Prix.

I'm not saying that the Spanish are any more racist than the English or any other European country. But it is quite clear that the Spanish authorities have not taken the issue nearly seriously enough. Clubs and individuals receive utterly insignificant punishments whenever they transgress.

Consequently, there is no genuine pressure on the culprits to cease their unacceptable behaviour.

There are brainless people everywhere. But I can't say racism has been almost eradicated in the last few years, fortunately. In 2008 the UEFA punished Atlético de Madrid F.C against Olympique, because the supporters were shouting "Kun, Kun, Kun" (Atletico´s best player, Kun Agüero) and they thought they were making monkey noises.

I remember chants in british football saying "Mido has a bomb, you know, Mido he's got a bomb" just because he's from Egypt. As I said, there are brainless people everywhere.

There are brainless people everywhere. But I can't say racism has been almost eradicated in the last few years, fortunately. In 2008 the UEFA punished Atlético de Madrid F.C against Olympique, because the supporters were shouting "Kun, Kun, Kun" (Atletico´s best player, Kun Agüero) and they thought they were making monkey noises.

I remember chants in british football saying "Mido has a bomb, you know, Mido he's got a bomb" just because he's from Egypt. As I said, there are brainless people everywhere.

You're right that there was a "Shoe, shoe, shoe bomber...shoe, shoe, shoe bomber" chant, sung by West Ham fans when he played for Spurs (ironically, Mido now plays for West Ham!).

But it had nothing to do with the fact that Mido is from Egypt. It had everything to do with the fact that Mido looks like the white British muslim, Richard Reid, who tried to blow up a transatlantic flight with a bomb in his shoe:

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00716/mido_280x390_716678a.jpg
http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/Richard-Reid.jpg

RESERVE STADIUMS

Portugal

AVEIRO- Municipal de Aveiro 30,678 (Would need to be expanded)

Aveiro Stadium would never be chosen to be expanded.
The City council even already said to Public that they were thinking in demolish the stadium because they are losing money every day and they don't find a way to make an income from the stadium.
A better chose would be in Guimaraes or Braga.
And I belive Benfica and Porto might decided to expand their stadiums, at least in Da Luz I hope that because if they expand they will change the exterior and the exterior is ugly, much concrete, should be more like Emirates.

I would pick Gijon or Murcia over Alicante.

And expanded Sánchez Pizjuán instead of the Olympic Stadium Sevilla.

I didn't pick Alicante, I chose Murcia. I opted for the Olympic Stadium in Sevilla over Sanchez Pizjuan, as it is a newer stadium and a Uefa Elite Stadium, it also wouldn't need expanding for a world cup.

Aveiro Stadium would never be chosen to be expanded.
The City council even already said to Public that they were thinking in demolish the stadium because they are losing money every day and they don't find a way to make an income from the stadium.
A better chose would be in Guimaraes or Braga.
And I belive Benfica and Porto might decided to expand their stadiums, at least in Da Luz I hope that because if they expand they will change the exterior and the exterior is ugly, much concrete, should be more like Emirates.

As I put it in my Reserve list of stadiums, I wouldn't have thought it would get expanded, unless it got picked to be in the list of the final 12 stadiums.

Aveiro Stadium would never be chosen to be expanded.
The City council even already said to Public that they were thinking in demolish the stadium because they are losing money every day and they don't find a way to make an income from the stadium.
A better chose would be in Guimaraes or Braga.
And I belive Benfica and Porto might decided to expand their stadiums, at least in Da Luz I hope that because if they expand they will change the exterior and the exterior is ugly, much concrete, should be more like Emirates.

Once again, an expansion will kill the design of the stadiums...just can´t imagine what would they do to a stadium like Dragão.
Luz just needs a better facade.

Once again, an expansion will kill the design of the stadiums...just can´t imagine what would they do to a stadium like Dragão.
Luz just needs a better facade.

But they wont change luz facade if they don't expand i dont remember any team to change their stadium facade without making interior improvements too. And I belive if they do, they will ask HOK, since it was them that designed the luz to make a expansion project.
Of what I know Emirates have reserve plans if they need to expand stadium and Emirates looks exactly like Luz in the stands.
First let's wait too see if Portugal/Spain gets the WC, and after we speak, it's to early to be already speaking in Stadiums etc.
I have a question.... If bidding nation after being chosen, they can add others stadiums to list or are the ones that were chosen when they did the bid?

^^Some years ago I heard that was a plan to Luz facade but they haven´t money to complete.

Sure thing it´s they will improve the stadiums...after all the WC is only in 2018.

Expanding? REALLY? That is a ridiculous plan.

Half the stadiums arent even being used at half capacity. Attendance at Luz stadium is bellow 50K ppl, and you want to expand to 80K to host a tournament? did none learn from euro 2004?
Not to mention the costs and utter destruction to the stadium's design...

The only viable idea, is temporary expansion of Braga's stadium, and even then, it would be like like painting around the monalisa because you want a bigger paiting. that stadium is a work of art, adding anything to it would be blasphemy.

No, the only WC worthy stadiums are Alvalade, Dragao and Luz, as they are!

^^Some years ago I heard that was a plan to Luz facade but they haven´t money to complete.

Sure thing it´s they will improve the stadiums...after all the WC is only in 2018.

after we sell di maria this summer for 100Million euros well have the moneyyyy :rofl:

Mind you, the idea of finishing up the facade of the luz is a great one, it looks unfinished, something like the emirates stadium would be nice...

What matters about a stadium is the inside, not the outside. Inside is pretty good I thought and that´s the part that goes around the world via television, something that architects sometimes forget mop.

What matters about a stadium is the inside, not the outside. Inside is pretty good I thought and that´s the part that goes around the world via television, something that architects sometimes forget mop.

Of course, the outside is for architectural value only, but look at stadiums like the Allianz Arena, or the new nou camp or even the birds nest in Beijing. There is certainly something to be said about working on the stadium's outside.

I belive if Benfica wants to change facade they can do it atm because this season with this results we won a lot a money and not only speaking about the players that will sell but our average is around 40k/45k so multiplicate that for an averange 20euros of each ticket by all the matches that we played home and it give somethin around 20million, more sponsors, the paying members (socios) etc.
And Andre where did you heard about that? I would like that Luz had an exterior like Emirates or at least less concrete.
And i belive if we are able to continue with football sucess we will be able to fill stadium every week as was the Old Estadio da Luz that had around 80k by match.
Ps: If anyone can answer me about the question of adding stadiums after the bid is chosen answer me please.

after we sell di maria this summer for 100Million euros well have the moneyyyy :rofl:


Yeah I guess then you get some money to buy some cladding pieces :D An some images of the great players of the club just like at Emirates would look great!

Filipe I heard about that right after the stadium was "officially" finished, because already in 2004 people thought the exterior was a bit incomplete and I heard about having plans to finish it...but lately I haven´t heard more about this.

Going from the official Spain & Portugal 2018/22 bid website I was really surprised Portugal are only putting forward 3 stadiums, 2 of which are in Lisbon. Anyway going from this website here is my list of the 12 stadiums I would like to get picked, this is going from the criteria of capacity and geographical spread:

FINAL 12 STADIUMS

Portugal

LISBON- Estadio de Luz 65,647
LISBON- Estadio Alvalade 50,300
PORTO- Estadio do Dragao 50,106

Spain

MADRID- Santiago Bernabeu 80,533
BARCELONA- Nou Camp 98,700 (Expanding to 106,000)
VALENCIA- Nuevo Mestalla 74,000
SEVILLA- Estadio Olympico de Sevilla 57,586
BILBAO- Nuevo San Mames Barria 53,100
ZARAGOZA- Nuevo Estadio 50,000
MALAGA- Estadio Nueva Rosaleda 45,000
A CORUNA- Estadio Riazor 35,600 (Would need to be expanded)
MERCIA- Estadio Jose Rico 29,681 (Would need to be expanded)


RESERVE STADIUMS

Portugal

AVEIRO- Municipal de Aveiro 30,678 (Would need to be expanded)
FARO- Estadio Algarve 30,305 (Would need to be expanded)

Spain

MADRID- Estadio Nuevo Estadio de Madrid 69,600
BARCELONA- El Prat 41,000
SEVILLA- Estadio Sanchez Pizjuan 43,172
ELCHE- Estadio Martinez Valero 36,017 (Would need to be expanded)

Please tell me what you think of my final 12 list and the reserve list.

You have forgotten Anoeta's stadium in San Sebastian, which is one of the stadiums that has spent(passed) the cut. Anoeta is going to be remodelled and it will be extended from 32076 to 43650 spectators.
Still(Yet) the project is not finished, but when they present it, I will put here the photos.
It hopes that San Sebastian is a subheadquarters close to the headquarters of Bilbao, which will be San Mamés Barria.

I you put more information with regard to the possibility that San Sebastian is a headquarters of the World 2018 after Anoeta is remodelled.

Anoeta has been shortlisted as headquarters of the Iberian Candidacy for the World 2018 and it will appear in the report that the federations Spanish and Portuguese of football will present to the FIFA on May 14, as it confirmed yesterday the new web page created by the organizers. Donostia has been one of 20 state cities and lusas chosen and, in case the International Federation of Football designates on December 2 of this year Spain and Portugal as organizing of the World one, the stadium native of San Sebastian should pass a last cut to be able to receive someone of the games of the appointment mundialista of 2018.

Of between 18 Spanish headquarters selected (Portugal contributes only two, Lisbon and Oporto, but both would be fixed) they would be elected twelve and Donostia would compete in this case, for geographical proximity, with Saragossa (he would be the strongest rival, though not incompatible because they might go you change of these), Santander and Gijon, since Bilbao would not have any problem to tenor of the works of construction of the new San Mamés. It is necessary to outline that to be a headquarters the stadium must have an appraisal of around 40.000 spectators as minimum.

Anoeta; an appraisal of 43.650.

If finally Donostia saves the latter obstacles, Anoeta would begin his remodeling in 2013 in order to reach an appraisal of 43.650 seats. Thus, there would be obtained the longed for aim to bring the steps over to the area of game that so much has been chased in the last years. These works would conclude in 2016. But in order that this desire makes real the Iberian Candidacy would have to be the chosen one of between England, Australia, The United States, Belgium and Holland (candidacy combines), Japan, Mexico and Russia.

wait... 3 stadiums from Portugal only? that is :lol: :lol:

I think this candidature has no chance... Spain should have applied alone, and there would have been better chances

^^I hope we get the bid, but I have to agree with you. 3 stadiums is a crying shame!

Of course, the outside is for architectural value only, but look at stadiums like the Allianz Arena, or the new nou camp or even the birds nest in Beijing. There is certainly something to be said about working on the stadium's outside.

Nou Camp is ´horrible´ from the outside. Probably from the inside it´s not very luxe either. Eventhough quite alot of people in the world would qualify it as the most beautifull stadium of Europe? Why?

^^I hope we get the bid, but I have to agree with you. 3 stadiums is a crying shame!

Which is more reason for Portugal to come up with 5 stadiums (in ideally 5 cities, but most likely 4), with Spain having the 7 remaining.

Estádio Municipal de Braga aught to be upgraded to 45,000 or so. Perhaps by making a 10,000 seater at the open end, and a 5,000 seater at the cliff end?
Estádio Algarve could possibly be upgraded at the goal ends? With 5,000 potentially ugly 2nd tiers at each end?

Naturally, Lisbon will host the opening game and Madrid will host the final (although Barcelona does have the largest stadium in Spain, why not have a 2 capital style deal?).

Portugal needs to input more stadiums, otherwise, what's the point?
I'm sure if the idea of 3 Portuguese stadiums (2 being in Lisbon no less) would dramatically hamper the bid in Spain's favor, the Spanish side would most definitely be wanting to (or even forcing) the Portuguese side to offer more host cities and stadiums. Spain naturally being larger of the two in both country size, city size and population will be more largely represented in the stadium and city aspect, but Portugal would get it's fair share of host cities and stadiums, as not to be a "burden" to the joint bid.

Nou Camp is ´horrible´ from the outside. Probably from the inside it´s not very luxe either. Eventhough quite alot of people in the world would qualify it as the most beautifull stadium of Europe? Why?

He's talking about the finished Camp Nou, with the new facade.

I personally don't think the bid will prosper, at least for 2018. With the problems stated above, Benelux and England seem like stronger candidates (I don't even name the rest because it is pretty clear that 2018 will be held in Europe regardless of other nations' bids). In 2022 it is most likely FIFA will go exotic again (probably Australia), but if not then Spain/Portugal will probably be the strongest European contender. Either way, there's still a lifetime to go before all these events happen, so I could be very wrong.

Which is more reason for Portugal to come up with 5 stadiums (in ideally 5 cities, but most likely 4), with Spain having the 7 remaining.

Estádio Municipal de Braga aught to be upgraded to 45,000 or so. Perhaps by making a 10,000 seater at the open end, and a 5,000 seater at the cliff end?
Estádio Algarve could possibly be upgraded at the goal ends? With 5,000 potentially ugly 2nd tiers at each end?

Portugal needs to input more stadiums, otherwise, what's the point?


I wouldn´t like to see Braga stadium getting an improvement...maybe a stand on the open end would look (almost) good and enough. Now don´t mess with that cliff end!

About Algarve I´m with you...and you just have to look to the country where you are (Sydney Olympic stadium) to see the solution for this one. I just don´t get how the most touristic zone of the country is out of the bid :nuts:

My bets goes to England 2018 and Qatar 2022 (looking to the latest words from Blatter...I guess it was him...)

^^ At any rate, the Portuguese side is dragging down the bid. Don't be surprised if come the bid book it's revealed that Portugal gets more stadiums and cities at Spain's insistence!

Oh and Qatar won't get 2022. Even if Blatter wants it, it's just too small of a country to host. It probably won't even offer stadiums of FIFA standard (capacity wise of course). Expect it to be either Australia or the USA.

You have forgotten Anoeta's stadium in San Sebastian, which is one of the stadiums that has spent(passed) the cut. Anoeta is going to be remodelled and it will be extended from 32076 to 43650 spectators.
Still(Yet) the project is not finished, but when they present it, I will put here the photos.
It hopes that San Sebastian is a subheadquarters close to the headquarters of Bilbao, which will be San Mamés Barria.

Thanks I didn't know they had plans to expand it. But don't you think San Sebastian is a little too close to Bilbao and so won't be able to give a great geographic spread? However 43,650 capacity is good.

^^ At any rate, the Portuguese side is dragging down the bid. Don't be surprised if come the bid book it's revealed that Portugal gets more stadiums and cities at Spain's insistence!

Oh and Qatar won't get 2022. Even if Blatter wants it, it's just too small of a country to host. It probably won't even offer stadiums of FIFA standard (capacity wise of course). Expect it to be either Australia or the USA.

But the final stadiums are the ones already posted here. The only way is add a portuguese reserve stadium in exchange with a Spanish one...and that will obviously be Algarve. But I really don´t think that´s going to happen.

About 2022 I´d really like if Australia wins the bid...but it´s a tough bid...all the "big ones" are running for the same...maybe Blatter said those words to Qatar show something really great to stand out from USA, Russia, Australia...

IMO I think its pretty clear that England will get one of those. No other European bid even comes close. (benelux? really?)

And there is NO WAY two straight WC will be held in Europe. I think, as much as fun as it is to speculate about new stadiums... its moot.

I'm not ruling out any of the European bids; England could easily lose 2018, Russia being I think the biggest threat.

^^ At any rate, the Portuguese side is dragging down the bid. Don't be surprised if come the bid book it's revealed that Portugal gets more stadiums and cities at Spain's insistence!

Oh and Qatar won't get 2022. Even if Blatter wants it, it's just too small of a country to host. It probably won't even offer stadiums of FIFA standard (capacity wise of course). Expect it to be either Australia or the USA.

From the Qatar 2022 bid officials

Lusail National Stadium (86,000 seats, unknown yet)
Khalifa International Stadium (70,000 seats, multi use)
AlKhor Stadium (45,330 seats, soccer specific)
AlShamal Stadium (45,330 seats, soccer specific)
AlWakrah Stadium (45,120 seats, soccer specific)
AlGharafa Stadium (44,740 seats, soccer specific)
AlRayyan Stadium (44,740 seats, soccer specific)
Doha Port Stadium (43,500 seats, soccer specific)

4 stadiums will be revealed soon, all of these Stadiums will be cooled with carbon-neutral technology and they will be linked to a rail network.

Here in South America they are considering a joint bid between Argentina and Uruguay for World Cup in 2030. That'll never work. The argentine bid will end up swallowing the uruguayan. The only city in Uruguay capable of host would be Montevideo. I doubt that Spain will go to the end of the application process along with Portugal. The local committees are not getting along as it asks a greater commitment from the other. The consonance of the committees is fundamental in a joint bid. If Portugal wants to host a World Cup, they should be prepared to spend to expand at least 5 or 6 of their stadiums. They should do more to bring the world cup to his country and not wait for free things happen at the expense of Spain. This way, Portugal only disturbs the application, which is the least joint of all. The merits are all from Spain. Sorry for the harsh words. I sympathize with Portugal and cheered for this bid but I expected more from Portugal with great stadium projects.

Here in South America they are considering a joint bid between Argentina and Uruguay for World Cup in 2030. That'll never work. The argentine bid will end up swallowing the uruguayan. The only city in Uruguay capable of host would be Montevideo. I doubt that Spain will go to the end of the application process along with Portugal. The local committees are not getting along as it asks a greater commitment from the other. The consonance of the committees is fundamental in a joint bid. If Portugal wants to host a World Cup, they should be prepared to spend to expand at least 5 or 6 of their stadiums. They should do more to bring the world cup to his country and not wait for free things happen at the expense of Spain. This way, Portugal only disturbs the application, which is the least joint of all. The merits are all from Spain. Sorry for the harsh words. I sympathize with Portugal and cheered for this bid but I expected more from Portugal with great stadium projects.

2030 is 20 years away, a lot can happen by then, I'd expect Uruguay to boast say 4 or 5 venues in 4 cities, with Argentina having the remaining 8 or 7. Montevideo will host the final in an upgraded Estadio Centennario at 100,000. :P

2030 is 20 years away, a lot can happen by then, I'd expect Uruguay to boast say 4 or 5 venues in 4 cities, with Argentina having the remaining 8 or 7. Montevideo will host the final in an upgraded Estadio Centennario at 100,000. :P

But the choice by FIFA is made much earlier. Uruguay need a very strong economy there, because their stadiums are not adequate even for the Libertadores Cup. They will need to build new stadiums. A viable bid needs a good balance between new stadiums and refurbished stadiums. The post World Cup is taken into account. South Africa will have five refurbished stadiums for 2010 and Brazil six for 2014. Portugal is losing a great opportunity. They have a structure built for the euro with new stadiums, needing a few adjustments, if compared to what will be done in the old stadiums here in Brazil. I would say that a sole bid of Portugal would be more viable than the bid of Qatar were they will build stadiums in the middle of nothing and do not know what to do with them later. This joint bid of Portugal can't be serious. The government is not committed to the bid and this will be shown in the FIFA inspection report. These are points that make a difference when you have competitors like England and Russia. The Spaniards are wasting time.

But the choice by FIFA is made much earlier. Uruguay need a very strong economy there, because their stadiums are not adequate even for the Libertadores Cup. They will need to build new stadiums. A viable bid needs a good balance between new stadiums and refurbished stadiums. The post World Cup is taken into account. South Africa will have five refurbished stadiums for 2010 and Brazil six for 2014. Portugal is losing a great opportunity. They have a structure built for the euro with new stadiums, needing a few adjustments, if compared to what will be done in the old stadiums here in Brazil. I would say that a sole bid of Portugal would be more viable than the bid of Qatar were they will build stadiums in the middle of nothing and do not know what to do with them later. This joint bid of Portugal can't be serious. The government is not committed to the bid and this will be shown in the FIFA inspection report. These are points that make a difference when you have competitors like England and Russia. The Spaniards are wasting time.

They will not be in the middle of nowhere, their in cities and not all of them a be brand new, some are going to be expanded stadiums, and they will be downscaled from 45k to 21k after the games and the modular tiers would be rebuilt in developing countries that don't have good sport stadiums.
Bids are serious, there is no such thing as "don't know what to do with them later"

This bid could end up being real competition for England & Russia.

I've got a feeling the 2018 FIFA WC may end up on the Iberian coast!

This bid could end up being real competition for England & Russia.

I've got a feeling the 2018 FIFA WC may end up on the Iberian coast!

You forgot about the Benelux bid.

^

I don't see that bid doing to well.

Just like I don't see Qatar for 2022.

Benelux now is not considered eligible for Belgium division process (and their economical aspetcs...).....

2018 England or Russia (Russia is a new market so....), 2022 USA (have had been Australia, but they have only 21 milions inhabitants and they are too distant from Europe.... for ticketing selling...)

I still say that Portugal is dragging Spain down. Even if the bid proposes a decent venue plan geographically, the fact that Portugal only has 3 stadiums in 2 cities is just a joke.

Benelux now is not considered eligible for Belgium division process (and their economical aspetcs...).....

2018 England or Russia (Russia is a new market so....), 2022 USA (have had been Australia, but they have only 21 milions inhabitants and they are too distant from Europe.... for ticketing selling...)

Yeah but they are closer to Asia the worlds largest fan base!

I don't understand why Portugal is there. I thought joint bids were only for countries who couldn't host one by themselves? Spain definitely can! They've done it before!

Portugal is the one that cannot host themselves, so it's understandable. But to think that they can win by providing 3 venues in 2 cities is ridiculous.

It should have been, 5 Portuguese stadiums in 4-5 cities (With Lisbon's Estadio Nacional upgraded to 80,000 for the opening game). With Spain offering the remaining 7 (out of like the dozen on proposal), with Madrid hosting the final.

In an ideal world, of course, it'll never happen.

Benelux now is not considered eligible for Belgium division process (and their economical aspetcs...).....



And who told you that Belgium is going to split? :lol: And we are also not comparable to Greece or Italy. We may have a big public debt but our econmy is way bigger than that of those southeren european countries.

It looks like Spain wanted to try to overcome the fact that they hosted in '82 by branding it as a joint bid with Portugal, and giving them an absolute minimum in hosting duties.

That's certainly how it looks from the outside. I think FIFA will be far more sympathetic to Holland/Belgium's joint bid. It seems more honest. Neither can host by themselves and the bid is not lopsided, nor does it look like an attempt at rebranding a fairly recent world cup hosted by a single country.

My bets goes to England 2018 and Qatar 2022 (looking to the latest words from Blatter...I guess it was him...)

Qatar 2022? This would mark him as crazy!!!!!

I agree that the Iberian bid has no chance, being so lopsided. But from the Portuguese part, it couldn't be any different, considering Portugal only has those three +50k venues and it does not want to waste money in upgrading others beyond its already excessive capacity. It's a rational attitude.

I think Portugal should bid for another EURO in the future. It's a tournament at the country's level. One reason they won the 2004 edition was because they proposed more stadia than necessary (10 vs usual 8), so they can perfectly host a 24-team event with adequate renovations or even new venues (if economy helps at that moment).

I just smile at how some people think that it was Portugal who hopped onto the "Spanish train"... Spain accepted our joint-bid proposal because it knew it couldn't beat England alone on a head-to-head battle.

Qatar 2022? This would mark him as crazy!!!!!

Wait...he isn´t already?

Blatter says a lot of things. If you honestly think FIFA will allow a WC to be played in Qatar, you're out of your mind.

Blatter says a lot of things. If you honestly think FIFA will allow a WC to be played in Qatar, you're out of your mind.

Its even better than that.

Shortly after Blatter recommended Qatar (and the world media imploded), he actually came out with a ripper statement.....he said he recommends all bids when he visits them because its polite (or words to that effect).

Sure enough, do some googling and you can find articles quoting Blatter saying how awesome just about every bid is.

I tried looking for the article without luck, but don't you love FIFA :lol:

I highly doubt if they get the tournament, that Spain would miss out the Costa del Sol completely.

Wonder how easy it is to add seats to La Rosaleda?
New stadium in Málaga.

Today´s menu in SA: Spain v Portugal.

It would be a great oportunity to boost our joint bid to use some ads before, during and after the match... but we know what should we expect from of our football federations...

In any case, if Spain doesn´t win the WC... Portugal is my second choice!

I see England as the great opponent, but I think they are too confident that they will win and sometimes that attitude can turn against your interests.
I would not underestimate the Iberian bid.

I see England as the great opponent, but I think they are too confident that they will win and sometimes that attitude can turn against your interests.
I would not underestimate the Iberian bid.

Nobody is confident about anything, this is a tight race.

Indeed it is

I don't see it going for Spain/Portugal.. I mean, this countries are powerfull football nations, have good infra-structure, and they do deserve it.. but when you compare with Russia and England, hmmm I don't see it..
first, why is portugal there with only 3 stadiums?!! that just shows no commitment from portugal's side - portugal only makes the bid weaker IMO - ok, spain has that excuse about having another country together kind of dissociating it from 82 but still..
Next it's exaclty about 82.. england has hold it 16 years before and russia has never.. so one more point against it.. Economy also goes against spain/portugal when compared with growing russia and england's huge power.. plus the fact that football is totally settled in spain/portugal while in Russia there are big population and markets to be explored plus the fact that it brings the WC to a new part of europe..
I may be really wrong (and I hope so), we never know what's going on under FIFA's table, but looks like england is the favourite, if not russia is getting it.. :cheers:

Candidatura Ibérica com "boas possibilidades" em receber Mundial
20h02m


O chefe da delegação da FIFA que visitou durante quatro dias Portugal e Espanha afirmou hoje, quinta-feira, que "ficou bem impressionado" e revelou que a Candidatura Ibérica "tem boas possibilidades" de organizar o Mundial de futebol de 2018/2022.

"Após esta visita, foi possível notar que a Candidatura Ibérica é mais do que uma ilusão e que tem boas possibilidades de receber uma competição como o Campeonato do Mundo", disse o chileno Harold Mayne-Nicholls, numa declaração proferida num hotel em Lisboa.

O responsável da FIFA, que nos últimos dois dias visitou o Estádio do Dragão e o Estádio da Luz, considerou que os recintos espanhóis e portugueses "são o cenário ideal para milhões de desportistas e adeptos" e que as conclusões "são muito positivas".

"Ficámos bem impressionados. São estádios que possuem uma rica história, de tradição reconhecida. Foi também interessante a presença de importantes figuras do futebol mundial, jogadores e treinadores do passado e do presente, que querem o Mundial na Península Ibérica", disse Harold Mayne-Nicholls.

O chefe da delegação da FIFA mostrou-se também satisfeito com as infraestruturas hoteleiras e rodoviárias e com a criação de uma rede de TGV (comboio de alta velocidade) entre os dois países.

"Viajámos dessa forma entre Barcelona e Madrid e ficámos impressionados com a segurança, a velocidade e a pontualidade", referiu.

Antes do final da sua declaração, Harold Mayne-Nicholls pediu ainda "uma melhor coordenação entre as organizações de futebol, o governo e as autoridades locais".

Além das duas candidaturas conjuntas Espanha/Portugal e Bélgica/Holanda, estão também no terreno as da Rússia, Inglaterra, Austrália, Estados Unidos, Indonésia, Japão, México, Qatar e Coreia do Sul.

A FIFA escolherá as sedes dos mundiais de futebol de 2018 e 2022 em 2 de Dezembro do ano em curso.



Source (http://www.destakes.com/redir/af15a577429f3f530e908c47c904785a)



Meaning, they were impressed and said that Portugal and Spain have good chances of hosting the World Cup.

Harold Mayne-Nicholls also mentioned that Portugal and Spain stadiums are the ideal scenery for millions of sportsmen and fans and that their (FIFA delegation) conclusions are very positive.

To him, these stadiums have a rich history and known tradition. They also liked the presence of past and present players and managers.

They're satisfied with hotels and railroads and with the creation of a high-speed rail system between the two countries, having tried it from Madrid to Barcelona. They were impressed with the speed, security and punctuality.


He only asked for a better coordenation between football bodies, the Government and local authorities.




Oh well, I bet they say this to everyone.

http://www.candidaturaiberica.com/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/noticias/fifa-concluye-la-inspeccion-asegurando-que-su-informe-sera-muy-favorable/conferencia2/7370-1-esl-ES/conferencia2_portada.jpg

FIFA finishes the inspection assuring that their report will be very favourable
02 - 09 - 2010


“The Iberian Bid has many chances of being elected to organise the Football World Cup 2018/2002, and our report is going to be very positive because we have observed that they have a great sport, hotel and transport infrastructure, as well as a strong support from their political and sports authorities”, assured in his good-bye Mr. Harold Mayne-Nicolls from Chile, head of the FIFA inspectors’ delegation that has spent the last few days in Spain and Portugal.


FIFA’s inspection visit to Spain and Portugal has come to an end. During today’s working session, the group of evaluators headed by the Chilean Mr. Harold Mayne-Nicolls was in Lisbon. That was the final stage of the visit in which, during the last four days, the Iberian Bid has shown the ambassadors of the highest body of world football the cities and stadiums that would host the organisation of the World Cup 2018/2022, if Spain and Portugal’s joint bid is elected on December 2nd.

As a conclusion to the four days they have spent in Spain and Portugal, the FIFA inspectors thanked the collaboration they have received from the Iberian Bid representatives to help them achieve the proposed aim: to see ‘in situ’ and know those infrastructures and stadiums that have been suggested for the organisation of the World Cup 2018/2022, and to be able to prepare their report.

They expressed their satisfaction after checking that the response by both the Spanish and the Portuguese governments about the initiative to organise the World Cup was unanimous. There is close cooperation between both countries. “We are sure that the coordination on a State level which would be necessary if the World Cup came to the Iberian Peninsula is fully guaranteed”, Mr. Mayne-Nicolls stated. He also emphasised how important it is that no problems exist with visas for foreigners, as well as the cooperation between both countries in security matters.

The inspectors will also take with them a good impression about the infrastructures and means of transport, airports and hotels they have seen. They highlighted the trip from Madrid to Barcelona in a high-speed train, “we were fully satisfied both by its safety and by its comfort, and mainly by its punctuality”, he assured. He equally stressed the excellence of the stadiums visited, “ideal sceneries for millions of sportspeople who follow football on a permanent basis”.

In short, the visit to Spain and Portugal has been highly valued by the FIFA inspectors. The Iberian Bid representatives will have to continue working until December 2nd, the date on which the name of the bid elected to organise the World Cup of 2018 and 2022 will be known but, for the time being, a great result has been obtained with the effort made.

Prior to their good-bye, the six FIFA men inspected Benfica’s Do Sports stadium, proposed to host one of the semi-finals of the tournament. The Vice-President of the Lisboan club, Mr. Rui Gomes da Silva, along with the legendary players Eusebio, Toni and Humberto Coelho –who was once the national team coach, too– also welcomed the group. There, apart from seeing the sports facilities, they had the chance to observe how the eagle “Victória”, the club’s mascot, flies over the pitch of the stadium, something that impressed the group of inspectors as well.


Source (http://www.candidaturaiberica.com/eng/News/FIFA-finishes-the-inspection-assuring-that-their-report-will-be-very-favourable)

. .

By the way, it seems one semi-final will be played at Estádio da Luz and the third place match at Dragão.

No surprises.

My vote for 2018 goes to Spain/Portugal!

What´s up with this thread? Always dissapears in the depths of SSC... I find it highly suspicious... :lol:

Bilbao, huh? So, the Basque clamor for sovereignty from Spain except when WC bidding rolls around? Gotcha.

HAHAHA ZING!! i like!!

and with regards to the gaps between euro championships and the world cup...

maybe its to do with the fact that Europe is a hell of a lot smaller than THE WORLD.

it goes without saying that european countries could hold both in a relatively short space of time seeing as the european championship is a hell of a lot smaller. like the Copa America has a far higher chance of being hosted by the same country in a relatively short space of time as its a lot smaller than the world cup. the same as the as African cup of nations and the asian cup cup. they all will be held on the same continent every four years (obviously) while the world cup jumps from continent to continent so the argument about pertugal hosting euro 2004 is pretty much defunct.

spain and portugal do have some beautiful stadiums and i think that if the protugese do want to see the world cup on theior soil then they will have to make some sacrifices and do a joint bid with spain.

i just hope they dont do what our government has done with the 2012 olympics and spend stupid amounts of money on it that we dont have.

no chance

I have just take a look to the official web page and I saw the "There are more of us every day" section, there you can see Ronaldo, Fabregas, Iniesta, Bruno Alves, Casillas, etc. all of them supporting our bid. Do you imagine a joint selection? Woah!