London's Cauldron Will Be Outside Stadium, a seperate structure!

could it be like this???

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/292/cauldron3qn3.jpg
image by daveypodmore from gamesbid forum ( not official image )

It looks like it'll be a very tall structure (between 70-150m high) outside the stadium, high enough so everyone inside the stadium can see it.

Have a look at these:

http://planning.london2012.com/upload/publicaccessODAlive/OLY-OLF-APP-DWG-PDZ3-SSU-PAR-001%20(2268).pdf

http://planning.london2012.com/upload/publicaccessODAlive/OLY-OLF-APP-DWG-PDZ3-SSU-PAR-003%20(2269).pdf
thanks!

FLAME TO BE CARBON FREE BRIGHT
The organisers are also looking at a carbon-neutral Olympic flame fuelled by waste wood.

Most torches contain a canister with a mixture of compressed gases, including methane. Under proposals put to Tessa Jowell, the Games' supremo, today by Wood for Gold, a cross-industry campaign to promote use of sustainable wood, the torch at London 2012 will convert waste wood from the Olympic site into biomass. This biomass will be fuel to generate heat and power for the torch and the flame.

For every tree cut down to provide wood for the Olympic site, three will be planted at one of five Olympic forests by the Forestry Commission. These will take between 30 and 40 years to mature.

And woodchip used as biomass fuel is a sustainable source of energy because unlike fossil fuels, which are a finite resource, wood is infinitely renewable because it requires only light and water to grow. Rather than let wood rot in landfill, London 2012 organisers will use the energy in it as biomass fuel. And the ash waste created by burning the wood as biomass will be reused to create terra preta soils, an ancient method, favoured by indigenous South Americans, of mixing ash with waste to create extremely fertile soils.

Wood forms a huge part of the raw materials being used for construction of the Olympic Park, for stadia, seats, housing, hoardings and billboards. Though it is impossible to know how much wood will be used on the site, or how much of that will end up being waste, approximately £350m of the overall £9.3bn budget for the Games is being spent on timber alone.

Craig White, the chairman of Wood for Gold, said: "London 2012 has been labelled the low-carbon Games, and off-setting is a big part of the planning. But the design we're discussing doesn't just offset carbon, it actually reduces it. That's a pretty exciting prospect".

It looks nice but i hope they have a really inventive way of lighting it as there has been in recent olympics, Australia started it off for interesting lightings, probably the best i've seen, check these out:

Sydney: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SQx4eMeA1iQ

Athens: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SQx4eMeA1iQ

Beijing: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=arRdurgadsM

Well, the fact that it's outside the stadium makes this intruiging. The distance between the final torchbearer, who will have to be inside the stadium, and the cauldron is massive. Torino had a similar-ish set up and they didn't actually have any contact between the torch and the cauldron - instead opting for an elaborate fireworks display:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0PnWeVTNiiQ

Whilst dramatic, I hope London doesn't go down a similar route as the link between the torch and the flame wasn't as strong or obvious as it ought to be.

Any ideas?

gawd, imagine if they miss...

Looks like the Skylon but with 4 legs :)

Robin Hood can shoot a flame from a bow and arrow and have it going from one end of the stadium to outside the other end with it traveling along a wire to the caldron!

I thought it was shit until I noticed it looks influenced by the SKYLON!

People, the picture ISN'T the cauldron; it was mocked up by a someone on the Gamesbids forum (http://www.gamesbids.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=12089&view=findpost&p=179952)

The documents about its height and placement are real however.

People, the picture ISN'T the cauldron; it was mocked up by a someone on the Gamesbids forum (http://www.gamesbids.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=12089&view=findpost&p=179952)

The documents about its height and placement are real however.


did put that it was by daveypodmore lol:) and if you read your own post you would
know that the planning doc , is very vague,however the above image could be close!
however looks like cauldron will extend upwards!

I know you made a point that it wasn't real, but I'm not sure ill tonkso noticed. That's why I posted what I did.

Robin Hood can shoot a flame from a bow and arrow and have it going from one end of the stadium to outside the other end with it traveling along a wire to the caldron!

Having an archer light the Olympic cauldron has already been done before. Doing it again would be pointless.

Yes, but not by the British icon of Robin Hood!

So in theory it could be over 500feet high
tantalising.:cheers:

Having an archer light the Olympic cauldron has already been done before. Doing it again would be pointless.

guided missile it is then

will it definitely be outside?

^^
http://planning.london2012.com/upload/publicaccessODAlive/OLY-OLF-APP-DWG-PDZ3-SSU-PAR-001%20(2268).pdf
http://planning.london2012.com/upload/publicaccessODAlive/OLY-OLF-APP-DWG-PDZ3-SSU-PAR-003%20(2269).pdf

planning doc shows it is.

suppose it will remain outside until we see final plans.
makes sense.

Unless they were willing to change the design of the stadium or go with a Seoul 1988-like set-up, they had to put it outside like Torino's (http://flickr.com/photos/15075986@N06/1849724606/).

Previous lighting LONDON 1948:)

GMChh9m2A9k

I reckon the cauldron won't be anywhere near the stadium, but probably placed on a landmark somewhere in the centre of London.

The govt are already hinting at staging the Opening Ceremony 'across' the city, which makes me think the lighting of the cauldron will have some sort of special significance by a landmark like Trafalgar Square or Tower Bridge.

I reckon the cauldron won't be anywhere near the stadium, but probably placed on a landmark somewhere in the centre of London.

The govt are already hinting at staging the Opening Ceremony 'across' the city, which makes me think the lighting of the cauldron will have some sort of special significance by a landmark like Trafalgar Square or Tower Bridge.

I don't think this is allowed. Doesn't the IOC state the flame must be within view of the main stadium?

I like the idea though of a series of beacons being lit across the UK, finally reaching London for the ceremony. I reckon the lighting ceremony will be understated and less about showing off but more the importance of the event itself, Beijing's was just ridiculous.

Oh come on, Beijing's was fantastic!

If London disappoints, the world won't see it as 'understated', they'll see it as Britain not being able to compete with China.

They should go all out with the pomp and ceremony you'd expect from coronation!

I don't think this is allowed. Doesn't the IOC state the flame must be within view of the main stadium?

I like the idea though of a series of beacons being lit across the UK, finally reaching London for the ceremony. I reckon the lighting ceremony will be understated and less about showing off but more the importance of the event itself, Beijing's was just ridiculous.

There was emphasis on the importance of the event in Beijing's lighting.

The torch was taken off the ground - from a platform that represents the Great Wall, built to keep China isolated - to a scroll in the sky with mages of the intercalation relay, a nod to China's willingness to participate with all nations. The scroll has long been an essential element in revealing Chinese history and culture (as seen through out the ceremony). The cauldron is then "created" by the curled end of the unfurled scroll. The Olympic flame extends from the scroll that communicates the current chapter in China's story.

Visually, it was a d!ck-sizing contest. Symbolically, it wasn't. It was great.

But anyway, I do think you guys can do understated and visually impressive. You don't have to choose either one. Think Barcelona and Sydney (without the dragged-out climbing up the grandstand half).

^^ You know that it wasn't intentionally dragged out, but actually a mechanical failure?

^^ You know that it wasn't intentionally dragged out, but actually a mechanical failure?

I know.

I meant (in addition to that), the cauldron had to climb up that huge temporary grandstand. I think the cauldron and flame rising up around Cathy Freemean, with the waterfall backdrop was stunning enough. But it just had to get up to the top somehow.

Previous lighting LONDON 1948

Those birds at the beginning are incredible! :eek:

Oh come on, Beijing's was fantastic!

If London disappoints, the world won't see it as 'understated', they'll see it as Britain not being able to compete with China.

They should go all out with the pomp and ceremony you'd expect from coronation!


Yes,we need to get rid of this understatement mentality without turning into americans.We know the value of understatement but in this context it seems ludicrous.The olympic ceremonies are about spectacle.

I vote we strap Christopher Biggens to a cannonball 'n fire him towards the cauldron with a flare rammed up his bum.

Good morning London

any new about this?

How the 2012 Olympic stadium is being built
(http://www.contractjournal.com/Articles/2009/06/22/69000/exclusive-how-the-2012-olympic-stadium-is-being-built.html)



Olympic flame
He still doesn't know whether the Olympic flame will be in or out - but he has already built in enough structural load to take a 150m-high tower along with gas pipes in case LOCOG, the company that will actually run the Games, decides that is what it wants.

At a guess, it will be out - the thinking being that the tower will be a reminder to everyone that, once the paraphernalia of the Olympics has been taken down, the Games were actually held here.

Hmm, I thought it was a sure thing that it would be outside.

Anyway, I imagine it will be quite tall as to not be blocked from view (from the inside of the stadium) by the floodlights.

Anyway, I imagine it will be quite tall as to not be blocked from view (from the inside of the stadium) by the floodlights.

And all the general paraphernalia that will be hanging from the roof cables during the Opening Ceremony.

In fact, when I first saw the design of the cable structure I thought that maybe the centre ring might be where the flame was going to be, strung over in a circle above the stadium. This render though shows them to be speakers and spotlights onto the performance space, which is a shame.

http://www.froggypic.com/image/06/7ce993feccfe152f6657c254b9be0e56.jpg

I would really like to see a sculptural architect create something ingenious and iconic for the cauldron. Calatrava created a spectacular telecoms tower for the barcelona olympics

http://i42.tinypic.com/2iabrk0.jpg

and the torch for the athens olympics

http://i39.tinypic.com/2lazcch.jpg

These would really compliment the stadium and with his ingenius lighting method for athens i'm sure he could come up with something equally great and even better for London. Of course it would need to be different with its own unique lighting method, but his style would look great next to the stadium. something very clean, white and alien like would look very striking against the rigorously structural and skeletal satdium.

I personally would love to see something that is outside the sadium which can reach into it and then leave again. Or at the other end of the scale, the whole of the tension ring could be one huge ring of fire.

Just a quick mock-up of what that last idea could look like..

http://i42.tinypic.com/33tm2ww.jpg

I think that's going a bit far. I was thinking more the smaller ring in the centre.

I doubt London would go for the central ring idea. It seems doubtful that the IOC and IAAF would approve it in the first place (same goes for the ring of fire on the compression ring). And it looks like the shadows wouldn't be pretty.

I think an iconic, sculptural tower next to the stadium would work best. It would be a great focal point for the entire Olympic Park and stand as a landmark and reminder for the Games post-2012.

Besides, its meant to be a Green olympics.. so if anything, surely the flame will be minimal to kind of emphasise this 'carbon friendly' attitude.. having the entire perimeter of the stadium roof alight is hardly a good start to a Green Olympics :| .. lol

I guess you're right.. Plus, it would be hot as hell beneath that! but the suclptural tower would really add some needed iconic identity to the stadium

The skylon.

I'd love to see something really striking and barely noticeable as a cauldron by Anish Kapoor or Thomas Heatherwick. Is there any money left in the pot for this??

just a rough idea. very rough.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2571/3918940185_40700cdb4c_b.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2544/3918941317_35831ec18b_b.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2639/3918941329_c754de6989_b.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3428/3918941325_4edc22f830_b.jpg

With all the basic rigging of the stadium, and then the additional rigging for the ceremonies, I'm sure we're looking at an external cauldron, being lit externally, probably with a virtual view of the lighting process from inside the stadium during the opening ceremony (360 degree video wall in the centre field area, or something like that)

Once lit, they'll probably be a peek of the flame from certain areas of the stadium - satisfying the IOC's rules

Five seperate flames, mirroring the five olympic rings, in a procession from five seperate areas of London, ending up at the cauldron and then coming together to make one flame. Can see us ending up with a final five athletes setting the whole thing off... Steve Redgrave, Kelly Holmes, Matthew Pinsent, Daley Thompson, Steve Ovett and Seb Coe (or if not Seb, as he might be busy :)), Mary Peters?

And it would be quite nice for the althete's to be wearing their respective medals and wearing a mock-up of the their original olympic outfit kit designs

With all the basic rigging of the stadium, and then the additional rigging for the ceremonies, I'm sure we're looking at an external cauldron, being lit externally, probably with a virtual view of the lighting process from inside the stadium during the opening ceremony (360 degree video wall in the centre field area, or something like that)

Once lit, they'll probably be a peek of the flame from certain areas of the stadium - satisfying the IOC's rules

Five seperate flames, mirroring the five olympic rings, in a procession from five seperate areas of London, ending up at the cauldron and then coming together to make one flame. Can see us ending up with a final five athletes setting the whole thing off... Steve Redgrave, Kelly Holmes, Matthew Pinsent, Daley Thompson, Steve Ovett and Seb Coe (or if not Seb, as he might be busy :)), Mary Peters?

And it would be quite nice for the althete's to be wearing their respective medals and wearing a mock-up of the their original olympic outfit kit designs

you just wanna see Seb in some shorts. ! :)

I reckon the cauldron won't be anywhere near the stadium, but probably placed on a landmark somewhere in the centre of London.

The govt are already hinting at staging the Opening Ceremony 'across' the city, which makes me think the lighting of the cauldron will have some sort of special significance by a landmark like Trafalgar Square or Tower Bridge.

After seeing the 1,000 days countdown, could we get a secondry cauldron atop the BT tower. It certainly could be seen across London

Do olympic stadiums ever use them again? Or are they just standing there?

Do olympic stadiums ever use them again? Or are they just standing there?

I'm sure that they've turned Sydney's cauldron into a fountain

I think Beijing and Torino removed theirs.

Athens' is still there; it fits well into the stadium.

Atlanta's, Sydney's, and Salt Lake's were moved and now stand as monuments / landmarks. And yeah, Sydney's in particular is now a fountain.

Going way back... Barcelona's and Seoul's were nerver moved.

I'd love to see something really striking and barely noticeable as a cauldron by Anish Kapoor or Thomas Heatherwick. Is there any money left in the pot for this??

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/visual_arts/article6999880.ece

I think you may get exactly what you want!! I don't see the planning permission for a up to 150m tower next to the stadium and anish kapoor builing a 400ft (120m) sculpture next to the stadium as a coincidence. what ever anish designs, will have the cauldron on it somewhere.:banana:

er, what I'd also like to see is £10million deposited into my bank account!
:cheers:

I really hope London goes back to the idea of a cauldron shaped cauldron. I'm not overly enthusiastic about these "pipes" shooting out flames that we've seen from Athens, Torino, and now Vancouver.

Sydney :okay:

http://images.china.cn/attachement/jpg/site1007/20080225/000802c98ccc092c9b042f.jpg


Torino :down:

http://z.about.com/d/goeurope/1/0/b/X/caldron.jpg

er, what I'd also like to see is £10million deposited into my bank account!
:cheers:

I'll take a 10% cut too! lol :nuts:

Well if £15million pound has been donated for this 'sculpture' it should be truly amazing

Golden rules

1. Height
2. One flame

How about every gold medallist's name printed on the cauldron all the way to the top?

Vancover's looks pretty dire. Ventilation pipes wrapped in tin foil and fenced off from the public, plus the stadium 'cauldron' failed to work correctly.

Apart from Athens that tilted, and Beijings that was moved into place behind the scene's under the cover of dark, complicated moving cauldrons don't have a good track record... Sydney's stalled at one point and Vancouver's obviously had a major malfuntion

As other posters have mentioned, a nice tall, classic looking cauldron, however it's lit, is my preference

If they do combine it with Kapoor's tower, which would seem the obvious idea, all the better

Well technically, Sydney's in its final position was also just a pipe with a flame:

http://www.auswinch.com.au/Cauld2.jpg

But the way the flame gracefully burned and the surrounding disk makes made that cauldron elegant.

BARCELONA 92

no olviden cual fue el mejor pebetero y el mejor encendido de toda la historia olimpica:



Babelfish translation: they do not forget what was the best pebetero and the best ignition of all the olympic history

I have to say, that the lighting at barcelona was the best ever!! So simple and elegant, and cleverly done, if london's cauldron lighting and ceremony is anything like barcelona, I will be a very proud man!

I hope babelfish translates this right (Espero que el babelfish traduzca la esta derecha )!!: ¡Tengo que decir, eso que la iluminación en Barcelona era el mejor nunca!! Tan simple y elegante, y hecho listo, si london' ¡la iluminación y la ceremonia de la caldera de s es cualquier cosa como Barcelona, yo serán un hombre muy orgulloso!

:banana:

How cool would it be if the cauldron was the whole top ring of the stadium! that would be a great lighting scene at the opening ceromany (Y)

But a little hot for the spectators in the fortnight afterwards ;)

hey remember when Helen Sharman, the first British woman in space dropped the Olympic torch at the Commonwealth Games. She tripped in the stadium while runnning up to the cauldron - it went out. Cant find anything on youtube, but man was it funny. She had to be from Slough of course (my hometown) - says it all.

I thought they had a baton at the CWGs, not a torch.

I thought they had a baton at the CWGs, not a torch.

Yes, I was sure it's a baton with a message from the Queen

I've still got, somewhere, my Cadbury's sponsored mini baton from the Manchester CWG's opening ceremony

I've still got, somewhere, my Cadbury's sponsored mini baton from the Manchester CWG's opening ceremony

Good times!

definitely on fire it was, it went out and she put her hands to her face in dismay as the verger guy scrabbled around trying to pick up the hot coals or whatever they were. She runs like a duck, and had tripped. Later they said she 'succeeded' in 'relighting the torch from the burning embers.'

Did she fuck :D. It was the 1991 World Student Games in Sheffield.

No one seems to have liked the Toronto cauldron(s) but I liked them..

I know its slightly off topic, but I hope that for the entire duration of the games (at night) the London Eye is lit up in the Olympic ring colours, one colour at a time obviously. Surely that is something that would be relatively simple to do and be super dramatic (:|) and be something seen near enough across London vantage points.

I'm still not sure how the cauldron could work within our stadium, with it being so... er, robust and lacking in the showy wow factor. But I do like the idea of it being lit via by a flame that zips around the roof for the utter pow-factor, lol.

how bout one of the lighting rig is a couldron?it will stand before the ceremony,and they will slowly down 90 degree..becoming a couldron

It's The Queen's Jubilee in 2012. I think she will be involved, maybe the flame at Buckingham Palace, although it's a disgusting building.

You could have the flame come down the Thames and up the Lea?

buckingham palace disgusting? each to their own i guess!!!!!

I wouldn't describe it as 'disgusting', but, for a Palace, it certainly is a little dull.

With a bit of Imagination they could do a similar lighting scheme that was used back a few years on Buckingham Palace.. will try and find some photos

This wasn't the picture I was looking for.. I'm sure they lit the palace with the Union flag? but this gives an idea!

http://www.womansday.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/04-wd1209-buckingham-palace/843055-1-eng-US/04-wd1209-Buckingham-palace.jpg

That's just drawing attention to a repulsive building.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/64/199408879_e49734a3e9.jpg?v=0

Ok, that's quite cool. I bet The Queen will be involved somehow.

Someone has probably already started this conversation, but who do we think is going to light the olympic and paralympic cauldrons? We need famous olympians I feel, perhaps not the most famous sports personality, but the most famous olympian (I would be annoyed if they got someone like david beckham to do it) like Chris Hoy or Matthew Pincent even Kelly Holmes, I have a strong feeling it will be Steve Redgrave. And how about the paralympics, the only person I can think of as a great paralympian is Tanni Grey-Thompson.

lets get the queen to do it. She lit the fireworks for her precious jubilee ;) ma'am is definitely a world famous figure :)

Hahahaha before thinking who will light the cauldrons, lets think how it would be like....

Any news?

Keep it simple
Rotate the flag so that the horizontal red line is vertical.

Use the central red line as the cauldron...a tall steel red structure, with two diagonal red steel structures attached to it.

nevermind

the build of the stadium looks like a crown to me, I guess the torch will have something to do with a crown as well.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/64/199408879_e49734a3e9.jpg?v=0

Now I love this. When was that !

Probably during the Golden Jubilee in 2002, they projected a lot of stuff on the palace then.

Probably during the Golden Jubilee in 2002, they projected a lot of stuff on the palace then.

Yes it was

I remember standing outside the palace gates with these projections on the palace and watching the fireworks

The atmosphere was amazing, something I hope will be rekindled during the games

Now I love this. When was that !

yep was during the golden jubilee celebrations. the celebrations was awesome with the concert, projections and fireworks. they should try replicating something like this during the olympics.

0kBz85FFb_0

i am thinking nightly light show with music on Buck Pal....barcelona with freddie and monty and fountains anyone??

I just checked the most recent aerial shots of the stadium and it looks like they are laying the gas pipes for the cauldron tower. It is also entirely possible that these bits of pipe and hole in the ground in the location of the caudron is just coincidence but it seems plausible that before they landscape they need to sort the piping first.

http://i42.tinypic.com/4rw0pc.jpg

Lets hope that the tower that goes on top of this hole is interesting and not just those pipes stuck together to form a tower. Fingers crossed still for an Anish Kapoor cauldron!

Not wanting to go off topic but I love that video and it makes me wonder why, after the chimes of Big Ben on New Year's Eve we can't have the party on the Mall. Look at the atmosphere here, the music the fireworks, the projections on Buckingham palace - there seems to be so much more to it than the Eye (not to say that can't have its fireworks too! but they're always without music, too many at once and generally a waste IMO).

I immediately have concerns for the couldron as it would seem by the space available it won't be inline with the stadium and I'm a stickler for symmetry and neatness in such events :| it seems like it will be off centred and a bit isolated, I hope it doesn't look like a pylon or remotely industrial, and that it is lit in a way that'll have the hairs standing on end. I mean afterall, what it looks like I feel is not as impressive as how it is brought into the ceremonies, particularly during the opening ceremony when it is lit.

Well according to the plans the cauldron will be on the central axis of the stadium, so nice and symmetrical:

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc248/jdjones1984/Screenshot-3.png

Is there any chance the couldron could be suspended above the centre of the field? Could this be possible? Think thats would look great!!!

I just checked the most recent aerial shots of the stadium and it looks like they are laying the gas pipes for the cauldron tower. It is also entirely possible that these bits of pipe and hole in the ground in the location of the caudron is just coincidence but it seems plausible that before they landscape they need to sort the piping first.

http://i42.tinypic.com/4rw0pc.jpg

Lets hope that the tower that goes on top of this hole is interesting and not just those pipes stuck together to form a tower. Fingers crossed still for an Anish Kapoor cauldron!

where do you get the ariel shots from, do you have a link? I just want to see if they have a more recent shot of this area. Thanks

where do you get the ariel shots from, do you have a link? I just want to see if they have a more recent shot of this area. Thanks

I just got this picture from one of the press releases from the London 2012 website. Almost every press release has a link to getty images where you can download hi res photos relating to their articles. I guess you can just go through their news archive and and find articles relating to the stadium construction. This particular shot is just a crop of one of the aerial shots.

I just got this picture from one of the press releases from the London 2012 website. Almost every press release has a link to getty images where you can download hi res photos relating to their articles. I guess you can just go through their news archive and and find articles relating to the stadium construction. This particular shot is just a crop of one of the aerial shots.

great, thanks :)

just looking at the new aerial images of the cauldron site. From the stadium planning docs. the proposed site is marked yellow, the little red circles are locations of some service pods (I think, I cut the legend off by mistake, but seem to remember something about services, they seem to surround the stadium):
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc248/jdjones1984/Screenshot-3.png

On the march 2010 aerial images (thanks to chrissus for first pointing this out) the approx location of the service pod is marked red, the approx location of the proposed cauldron site is marked yellow. notice the trenches and the lorry with yellow pipes, yellow pipes in the UK is for gas (SORRY YELLOW CIRCLE IS A LITTLE TO FAR TO THE RIGHT SHOULD BE HIGHLIGHTING THAT ROUND HOLE!):
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc248/jdjones1984/cauldronold.jpg

On the may 2010 aerial images, it's all been tidied, marked red is what looks like the foundation for the service pod and marked yellow is a pile of earth where the cauldron is planned to be (AGAIN, YELLOW MARKER A LITTLE TO FAR OVER TH E RIGHT, SHOULD BE OVER THOSE TWO WHITE CIRCLES):
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc248/jdjones1984/cauldronnew.jpg

Nothing really definite, and all this could be a red herring, but just thought I'd point it out. Also, notice the purple pipes in the last pic between the two highlighted areas, I think I'm right in thinking that purple pipes are for data and fibre optic cables, they are at least along UK motorways, could we have an interactive cauldron? This kind of blind assumptions will lead me to getting a third degree!! haha

An extract from the Orbit planning application regarding the Cauldron. Those hoping the Orbit would house the Olympic flame will be disappointed. I just hope the orbit doesnt distract from the Cauldron!

An assessment of cumulative effects with the Olympic Cauldron has been requested given the close proximity of the two structures and the impact that each structure may have on the other once they have been constructed. This is considered to be particularly relevant given the design
intent for each structure is to be a landmark for the Olympic Park.
The Olympic Cauldron is approved as part of the outline planning permission for OLF.

The design parameters are:
“The construction of a structure to contain the Olympic Cauldron to support the Olympic flame will be located to the north of the Olympic Stadium in the concourse area with: A minimum built footprint of 28sqm and maximum built footprint of up to 710sqm; A minimum diameter of 6m and a maximum diameter of 30m and a minimum height of 70m and a maximum height of 150m.''

The design of the Olympic Cauldron was reserved by condition. At the time of this application, aproposed design has not been brought forward for the Olympic Cauldron. As set out the Design and Access Statement accompanying this application, the ArcelorMittal Orbit is not areplacement or alternative for the Olympic Cauldron and therefore the ArcelorMittal Orbit
should be read as an independent sculpture to the Olympic Cauldron. The ODA and LOCOG are still considering the proposal for the Olympic Cauldron and have confirmed that should they bring forward a design for the Olympic Cauldron (as consented) that the design will have regard to The ArcelorMittal Orbit.

As the design appearance of the Olympic Cauldron has not been developed and the parameters are relatively wide (between 70m and 150m high), this assessment focuses on the cumulative effects arising from the two structures and the potential that one may influence views of the
other. Based on the location of the Olympic Cauldron and the ZTV studies for the ArcelorMittal Orbit, a commentary is made on where combined visibility is most likely to arise.

Furthermore, it is assumed that the Olympic Cauldron would be removed following the London 2012 Games and that there would be no cumulative effects during the Legacy phase. On this basis, any cumulative effects arising during the Olympic phase would be short-term

The requirement to incorporate the Olympic flame into the Orbit did not meet the Artistic intention of the piece

^^ By far my biggest worry about this and I've said it all along. In many ways I'd rather see this sculpture built post-2012 so as not to distract from the Olympic flame. Also, that way, it'll give people a reason to visit the park after 2012 after the world has left. It'll give it a second wind, if you will.

a shame the cauldron is assumed to be removed after the games, if it's going to be up to 150m tall, it is probably going to be quite amazing, perhaps a landmark, if only they would put the orbit at the other end of the park, near the velodrome, then they wouldn't conflict each other.

My biggest worry about the tower - and the rest of the surrounding structures - is what's gonna happen to them after the games. Let's be honest, this is Stratford... people will pay the price to get up there just so they can tag it and leave. A place like this doesn't change overnight just because they've built a new shopping centre, some new apartments and a nice new park... graffiti will continue, I can bet people will be on the Aquatics centre roof within days of it opening, and the whole refurbished greenway will be ruined.

How is this lot gonna be protected after the games are gone? Personally I don't see it happening. A temporary olympic couldron, yeah, that sounds like a good idea... but a £15,000,000 sculpture... by all means build it, but I see nothing coming of it afterwards other than it being East London's new suicide hotspot.

It'll take a lot longer than a single summer for Stratford to lose its bad reputation, they can build as much as they like, but Stratford is still Stratford.

just looking at the new aerial images of the cauldron site. From the stadium planning docs. the proposed site is marked yellow, the little red circles are locations of some service pods (I think, I cut the legend off by mistake, but seem to remember something about services, they seem to surround the stadium):
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc248/jdjones1984/Screenshot-3.png

On the march 2010 aerial images (thanks to chrissus for first pointing this out) the approx location of the service pod is marked red, the approx location of the proposed cauldron site is marked yellow. notice the trenches and the lorry with yellow pipes, yellow pipes in the UK is for gas (SORRY YELLOW CIRCLE IS A LITTLE TO FAR TO THE RIGHT SHOULD BE HIGHLIGHTING THAT ROUND HOLE!):
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc248/jdjones1984/cauldronold.jpg

On the may 2010 aerial images, it's all been tidied, marked red is what looks like the foundation for the service pod and marked yellow is a pile of earth where the cauldron is planned to be (AGAIN, YELLOW MARKER A LITTLE TO FAR OVER TH E RIGHT, SHOULD BE OVER THOSE TWO WHITE CIRCLES):
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc248/jdjones1984/cauldronnew.jpg

Nothing really definite, and all this could be a red herring, but just thought I'd point it out. Also, notice the purple pipes in the last pic between the two highlighted areas, I think I'm right in thinking that purple pipes are for data and fibre optic cables, they are at least along UK motorways, could we have an interactive cauldron? This kind of blind assumptions will lead me to getting a third degree!! haha

If you look at the photo I took recently, you can see the little white "service" pods circled. I thought they were test pods to see how they stand up to the weather, however they do match the positioning on the stadum plan in jdjones's post

http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b445/digipal2012/London%202012/May102012pods.jpg

i think the triangle flood light will be the cauldron..

Maybe here? Won't be much space with all the pods going in. I reckon its going to be a thin pole jobby with Cauldron on top.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_wvCrEgElPQY/TEC4YGqlx-I/AAAAAAAAAnE/KfjxTuZHZ2I/s640/100630_ODA_MDA_TL_002_HI.JPG

I reckon its going to be a thin pole jobby with Cauldron on top.


That will be fine I think. A more traditional or 'retro' cauldron. Much better than the overcomplicated ones we have been seeing lately. It wont cost the earth but will still be refined and classy.

Not what we want :
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2802/4366335781_a551795fa1.jpg

If this was round it would be perfect :
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_NBblIgs43II/SskFXz-jioI/AAAAAAAAAKw/k6o7Wsg3FLY/s512/IMG_0969

I like too much the first idea, so we have to wait for an official cauldron.

It won't be like Vancouver's anyway. Whatever we end up with either has to attach to the roof of the stadium, or be tall enough to be seen from inside the stadium. Vancouver's was quite unique in that their ceremonies were in an indoor stadium, and the cauldon was in downtown Vancouver.

This would also act as a counter-foil to the complicated structure of the orbit. It it was distinctly talller it would work quite well.

Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but according to EG, the Cauldron will be 490 feet tall ( yes the UK's obession with 149m strikes again)

Is that not just the maximum of a range it can be?
If it will actually be 149m that's excellent. Only needs a bit of clever design not to clash with the stadium and orbit. The site is much bigger and more spread out when seen from on the ground - it can handle another tall structure in my view.

Min height of 100m.

I wouldn't describe it as 'disgusting', but, for a Palace, it certainly is a little dull.
Remember that the bit of Buckingham Palace that faces The Mall was intended to be the back of the building!

Would have loved the cauldron to be a video of flames all around the stadium on the LED as seen in one of many YouTube videos of the Olympic Stadium. But that is no longer feasible, when will the design be unveiled?

Look at the end of this video to see the flames on a wrap screen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPy3SRUPfu4

Well, seeing as the IOC are trying to be all green (what with the proposal to ditch fireworks), maybe a neater solution than burning parafin all around the world then on the stadium for two weeks would be to use LED torches and a projected flame. Like those fake fireplaces that you can get in B&Q?

Not sure if it's been mentioned before, but according to EG, the Cauldron will be 490 feet tall ( yes the UK's obession with 149m strikes again)

490 feet??? they have it marked out in the elevations for the orbit already... i do believe it was about 75 metres in height there.

any news?

Nope. We know the torches will be unveiled on 27th July 2011, but nothing on the cauldron. Not really surprising, good to keep people guessing on that.

^^ oh thanks, lets hope the cauldron to be designed nicely, like all related to olympics :lol:

heres my idea.

Because we all know it will be very hard to beat Beijings Olympic cauldron, why dont they have a simplistic design, but have different coloured flames.

Different gases produce different colours, have the usual carbon colour the big cental one, and different little coloured flames around it.

Just an idea, they wont do that anyway, wanting to keep the games green and that :(

heres my idea.

Because we all know it will be very hard to beat Beijings Olympic cauldron, why dont they have a simplistic design, but have different coloured flames.

Different gases produce different colours, have the usual carbon colour the big cental one, and different little coloured flames around it.

Just an idea, they wont do that anyway, wanting to keep the games green and that :(

Maybe they could get Standard to design/make it?

http://www.london2012.com/news/2011/02/top-british-talent-sign-up-to-produce-london-2012-closin.php

As well as these appointments, Danny Boyle – Artistic Director of the London 2012 Olympic Opening Ceremony – has appointed award-winning architect Thomas Heatherwick to design the Olympic Cauldron for the Games.

Interesting snippet from todays press release from London2012 -

'the London 2012 Olympic Opening Ceremony Artistic Director Danny Boyle has appointed the award winning architect Thomas Heatherwick to design the Olympic Cauldron for the Games'

Anyone know any of his work?

^^

In answer to my own question

http://www.heatherwick.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Expo2010-Heatherwick-4198-1280x853.jpg

:)

Interesting snippet from todays press release from London2012 -

'the London 2012 Olympic Opening Ceremony Artistic Director Danny Boyle has appointed the award winning architect Thomas Heatherwick to design the Olympic Cauldron for the Games'

Anyone know any of his work?

Did you read thread above:wave:

I love the cube with the fibreoptics on it, that could be a visually stunning addition to the park if we got something like this. (separate to the cauldron which we know will be high)

Well, there's a turn of events.

Very interesting. Some of his other works:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/B_of_the_Bang_%28landscape%29.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/CurlingBridgeClip.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/The_East_Beach_Cafe%2C_Littlehampton_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1407279.jpg

Also for those who liked his seed cathedral but didn't manage to get to Shanghai, he made a similar structure, Sitooterie II at Barnards Farm, West Horndon http://www.barnardsfarm.eu/index.htm.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wBMm0XSN9uk/RnaJ0QTGHhI/AAAAAAAAAsM/FYceEtW34RI/s320/img_sitooterie_1.jpg

wasnt that in the shanghai expo? What happens when it ends?

ok it was... exciting stuff that British entry was definitely a bit of crowd puller. No mean feat in the international expo world

wasnt that in the shanghai expo? What happens when it ends?

ok it was... exciting stuff that British entry was definitely a bit of crowd puller. No mean feat in the international expo world

It's a much smaller structure, pretty much the same idea though.

Im liking his work, not too familiar with him as an artist (sculptor) but i like what i see so far.

here's his bridge in Paddington

0aIl0bzyQD0

I think his stuff has threads of Anthony Gormley and Anish Kapoor in them, could be a nice linkage if built together in the park.

Best news yet.

The seed Cathedral was stunning - worth the trip to see it!

Looking forward to seeing this.

This is great news! Never has an Olympics made such good use of the best home grown design/ artistic talents, I'm losing count! Zaha Hadid, Thomas Heatherwick, Danny Boyle, Anish Kapoor, Stephen Daldry etc. I'm sure there's more big names to come with the design of the medal, torch, Olympic related music! Cant wait!

Heatherwick is a perfect choice - he's a fantastic talent and always comes up with something exciting and new. Very happy with that :)

Apparently Boris is furious that the Orbit is not being considered for use as the cauldron. Talk about ego overtaking practicalities.

maybe the sculpture will sit atop the orbit? have the confirmed it wont be on the orbit? I know the planning docs have an area outside to the south of the stadium?

Is this going to be tempory?

Apparently Boris is furious that the Orbit is not being considered for use as the cauldron. Talk about ego overtaking practicalities.

Seriously? :ohno:

The Orbit will be the equivilent of the pagoda at Beijing 2008; surely it needs to be open during the Games to visitors, not simply a structure for holding the cauldron.

Is this going to be tempory?

It sort of is, and sort of isn't. But that's all that can be said.

It sort of is, and sort of isn't. But that's all that can be said.

Am guessing it's something like the Aussie cauldron that was dismantled from its anchorage in the stadium and re-erected on a smaller scale in the Olympic park (such at it is) in Homebush?

So you get permanency/symbolism of the cauldron without the longer-term anachronism of the accompanying tower.

any news?

Nothing yet
Won't be long now

So do we have anything to go by, like 'the design will be unveiled at the end of April' or are we still assuming it's gonna be soon? :lol:

i found this
http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx276/afiqnadzir/caouldron.jpg

errrrr..............

i found this
http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx276/afiqnadzir/caouldron.jpg

Hmm, That would be Thomas Heatherwick on an extremely 'low wattage' day.

I'm sure the Heatherwick studios will come up with something unique, clever, humorous, subtle and beautiful.

No pressure then Thomas!

Aye. That's certainly not the work of Thomas Heatherwick.

Now the torch has been unveiled, I guess the last big secret apart from the ceremonies is the cauldron. I notice from the latest pics there's a distinct lack of any services or foundation works in the area proposed in the planning applications. I'm still thinking possibly a Skylon type thing. Anyone got any ideas?

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/---2CpnbTox0/Tj-UYUeY6GI/AAAAAAAABho/95ryPa53x-g/s512/110714_ODA_MDA_AC_132_HI.JPG

Triangles will be involved!

It must be something quick to put up otherwise work would surely have started. Less than a year to go and no announcement has been made or groundwork been carried out. Perhaps something which is being largely built off site and will be assembled on site.

I think anything that Heatherwick designs will be able to be assembled very quickly on site. The cauldron could even be made using part of Bee of the Bang :( poor sculpture.

It must be something quick to put up otherwise work would surely have started. Less than a year to go and no announcement has been made or groundwork been carried out. Perhaps something which is being largely built off site and will be assembled on site.

That sounds familiar!! ;-)

Point taken but the orbit has a large amount of space for assembly are they going to turn that small part of the stadium "plateu" into a building site?!!!!

Point taken but the orbit has a large amount of space for assembly are they going to turn that small part of the stadium "plateu" into a building site?!!!!

^^Good point too. As they have started on the decking areas on the Stadium podium for the pod villages I cant see them turning over a large area in the northern part of the podium for the Cauldron construction. Maybe, it's gonna be a very simple bowl on a pole type design, not sure if that's how Heatherwick works though!

yeah i do think it will turn out to be a 'bowl on a pole' type design which doesnt include much construction on site. but where the bowl can be lit in the stadium and then moved to the pole where it will be hoisted up to its final position for the games. Im sure it will be a beautiful design and if it moves, it could be quite dramatic :)

something like this?
http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx276/afiqnadzir/couldron-1.jpg

Bee of the Bang re-lives!
Now put flames in!

Is it to scale guy4versa4?

How about something like this one but obviously much taller and a smoothed version of the torch, cool lighting effects could be used to give a burning effect along with the flame...
http://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2007/08/img_sitooterie_4.jpg

yeah i do think it will turn out to be a 'bowl on a pole' type design which doesnt include much construction on site. but where the bowl can be lit in the stadium and then moved to the pole where it will be hoisted up to its final position for the games. Im sure it will be a beautiful design and if it moves, it could be quite dramatic :)

Personally, I'd love a moving cauldron however, with the exception of Athens, Sydney and Vancouver's "movers" had issues during the lighting phase

I like your expression, and I too expect to see a "bowl on a pole"

something like this?
http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx276/afiqnadzir/couldron-1.jpg

You could be very close there. Knowing some of the work of the designer I don't see it being too simple. Someone like him would want to make his mark.

....The cauldron may end up being the only thing in London not engulfed in flames at this rate :(

Idea, how about we ditch the flame and go for a white material, an orange and yellow light, and a fan... probably a safer option!

Personally, I'd love a moving cauldron however, with the exception of Athens, Sydney and Vancouver's "movers" had issues during the lighting phase

I really hope they don't play it safe regarding the torch lighting. I hope they go for a spectacular way of lighting it. I think it would be really sad if they went down some really simple and boring way of lighting the cauldron just because of a couple of past mishaps in past Olympic ceremonies. If we go with simplicity I think people in the UK and people around the world will say "what!, is that it? What a letdown." If things are thought out properly and things are well designed, organised and well rehearsed there wont be any problems. The stadium is almost complete regarding the interior so there is no excuse for under rehearsals.

I think one of the most memorable for most people for the right reasons was Barcelona. Seoul, Sydney and Vancouver for the wrong.

Using an archer to fire an arrow "into" the cauldron is very simple but it was spectacular at the same time.

Why were Seoul and Sydney bad? Didn't Seoul's have that cool lift incorporated into it?

Why were Seoul and Sydney bad? Didn't Seoul's have that cool lift incorporated into it?

Seoul was quite classy, with torchbearers lifted up to the cauldron bowl for the lighting phase, however, I'm sure that some of the white doves of peace that had just been released were, or were nearly, BBQ'd when the cauldron was actually lit!

My favourite lighting moment has always been Sydney's, though a computer malfunction meant it stalled for longer than it should have before progressing up the ramp / waterfall to it's final resting place

Neither were bad, just "heart skipping a beat" moments

I didn't say that they were bad-just remembered for the wrong thing.

See from about 5:00 on this video.

9-77-fyhJ2U

Did they really just BBQ the doves of peace ???

Did they really just BBQ the doves of peace ???

Watching that, brought it all back (I was shocked at the time)

I think there may have been some flame grilled :ohno:

Note to LOCOG. Doves of peace after the cauldron's has been lit please

They haven't had live doves since Barcelona (they released them way before the cauldron was lit, precisely because of what happened in Seoul, in Atlanta kids ran around with dove shaped kites! Thinking about it I haven't seen doves in the last three summer Olympic opening ceremonies.

in Atlanta kids ran around with dove shaped kites!

Did they BBQ the kids in lieu?

Doha 2006 Asia Games OC lighting the Torch is very suitable for london lighting

BTW - for those not too familiar with Thomas Heatherwick (or even for those who are...) this was his keynote for TED:

oXbhTHaMwTw.

TBH, I think he's all just a little bit too awesome... I can't wait to see how the cauldron is going to turn out...

That power station is amazing! Those tower blocks in Malaysia are just magnificent!

Not meaning to sound disparaging to the rest of the park, the venues or the ceremonies, but I think the Heatherwick-designed cauldron is probably the one facet of the London games where I have complete confidence in its success.

Atlanta 96 was very memorable too.

But only because it was so poignant to see Muhammad Ali looking so fragile as he lit the cauldron.

Not meaning to sound disparaging to the rest of the park, the venues or the ceremonies, but I think the Heatherwick-designed cauldron is probably the one facet of the London games where I have complete confidence in its success.

As talented as Hetherwick is do not forget "B-of-the-Bang" which was dismantled because bits were dropping off. No designer is infallible, or above criticism.
Fingers crossed that he produces something better than that.

Any news yet?

doves are now banned in the Olympics, since they got flambeed at Seoul - apparently many flew straight into the cauldron and settled there before it was lit, and some were smoked as they flew.


#the killer cauldron:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Seoul_Olympic_torch.jpg/800px-Seoul_Olympic_torch.jpg

doves are now banned in the Olympics, since they got flambeed at Seoul - apparently many flew straight into the cauldron and settled there before it was lit, and some were smoked as they flew.


#the killer cauldron:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Seoul_Olympic_torch.jpg/800px-Seoul_Olympic_torch.jpg

As someone said, Barcelona was the last use of the live doves/pigeons for an Olympic ceremony. So for Lillehammer, and because of the frigid night temps, 1994 was the first time they used facsimile "doves" -- those were the little white "dove" helium balloons. Visually, it was OK...except when the "doves" settled on the snowy landscape, you couldn't see anything because it was white-on-white.

Its not a secret that the Cauldron could be on the top of the orbit?

but is there planning permission for the free standing one? does any one know?
that was the original plan....

Only outline planning, no detailed planning as yet..

As someone (the brilliant Baron-PierreIV) posted on GamesBids.com:

The 490-ft high cauldron is not possible because:



- no one would really see it at a decent level...maybe only atop the Orbital. So why bother getting a name architect if it's something that can only be seen from an overhead jet?

- how can u have TV cameras at 500 ft high not unless there's an arm from the tower with its own built-in webcam? Otherwise, like this shot, the rim of the stadium (and an expensive long-range camera from the Orbital) would be the only vantage points to shoot the cauldron at a somewhat horizontal angle.

- Look at that crane in the bkgd. That's already like 200 ft high. I don't see the point in building something twice that height. Everyone on the ground would get neck pains just to look at the top.

- Finally, a 500-ft high cauldron would be such a tempting target for an RPG missile terrorist-fired farther away from the security ring of Olympic Park.

- I am sure the Fire Marshall of Stratford/that part of London will NOT approve such a ridiculously high cauldron.

That "490-ft." height is a red herring.

I fully agree.

- Finally, a 500-ft high cauldron would be such a tempting target for an RPG missile terrorist-fired farther away from the security ring of Olympic Park.

- I am sure the Fire Marshall of Stratford/that part of London will NOT approve such a ridiculously high cauldron.

errr :crazy:

doves are now banned in the Olympics, since they got flambeed at Seoul - apparently many flew straight into the cauldron and settled there before it was lit, and some were smoked as they flew.


#the killer cauldron:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Seoul_Olympic_torch.jpg/800px-Seoul_Olympic_torch.jpg

That was the barbeque meal for the dancers :lol:

first cable car tower completed:
http://d4k7s9ho8qact.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/1912_cablecar.jpg

from londonist (http://londonist.com/2011/12/first-cable-car-tower-completed.php)

Good design for cauldron tower.
The cable car tower:)

No sign of any foundations etc for the cauldron north of the stadium (as per the outline planning app).

http://www.london2012.com/images/media-manager/2011/12/olympic-stadium-80581.jpg

Where's it going?? Last big secret I guess, apart from the ceremonies.

No sign of any foundations etc for the cauldron north of the stadium (as per the outline planning app).

http://www.london2012.com/images/media-manager/2011/12/olympic-stadium-80581.jpg

Where's it going?? Last big secret I guess, apart from the ceremonies.

Don't hold your breath on that until about June because, remember, there will be live gas lines involved.

Don't hold your breath on that until about June because, remember, there will be live gas lines involved.

Unless it's an environmentally friendly LED-based cauldron?

Unless it's an environmentally friendly LED-based cauldron?

Which would make the set-up even later. But I read somewhere that the gas lines for either inside or outside (on the north spot) the stadium are already in place, and ready to be activated any time.

It really would not suprise me if it was a hologram to go with the green initative.

It really would not suprise me if it was a hologram to go with the green initative.

Uhmmm...after ordering 8,000 torches, setting up the whole Relay program for 2+ years, they'd light the thing with a hologram? How corny & unimaginative would that be?

Besides, the IOC charter specifies a flame so there's no deviating from that!!

It really would not suprise me if it was a hologram to go with the green initative.

Can't imagine there would be much budget left for the ceremony if that was the case...

hi new poster so be kind the cauldron will be on the grass in the centre of the stadium during the ceremony

the cauldron will be on the grass in the centre of the stadium during the ceremony

Better cover that grass then.

hi new poster so be kind the cauldron will be on the grass in the centre of the stadium during the ceremony

It could be a 3-stage scheme to represent London's 3 Olympics: one on the ground; then the flame travels to a second small one on the rim of the roof; and from there, up to a 3rd one on a dedicated tower outside...where it's out of everybody's way.

I was looking through the latest planning applications, and came across this...

http://planning.london2012.com/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=LUOZKFSZK0000&searchtype=WEEKLY

11/90746/FULODA

Stadium Site
PDZ3a
Olympic Park
London

Installation of a gas metre and pipe.

Looks like we may get some clues soon about the Cauldron...:banana:

Installation of a gas metre and pipe.



Urghhhh! Surely they mean meter as in an instrument not a metre as in a unit of distance. :bash: