What I meant was from city centres. Obviously, for a North American style setup the students are housed within university complexes. But people from the city do need to go from time to time to the university, after all, how do all those staff get there without any major transportation?

A big university will have 6-7 home games a year. I think people can manage to drive a couple of hours. It won't kill them.

thats nice, thanks!http://sn.im/1rqt8c

Can't someone just rename this thread here into "stadia in Melbourne and public transportation infrastructure of Australian universities vs. that of US universities"?

Can't someone just rename this thread here into "stadia in Melbourne and public transportation infrastructure of Australian universities vs. that of US universities"?
Or the more generalized title of "how much better the rest of the world is at everything than the US?"

Can't someone just rename this thread here into "stadia in Melbourne and public transportation infrastructure of Australian universities vs. that of US universities"?


it's impossible to have a thread on here without somebody from down under steering the conversation round to Melbourne

Can't someone just rename this thread here into "stadia in Melbourne and public transportation infrastructure of Australian universities vs. that of US universities"?


it's impossible to have a thread on here without somebody from down under steering the conversation round to Melbourne
i think in terms on transport its hard to look beyond New York

Morgantown and WVU has its own sort of monorail-like transit system.

The Public infrastructure argument is always a bit subjective depending on the areas. For instance Large stadia in built up areas that are heavily congested rely on decent public transportation as a necessity, whereas those areas particularly in the Southern/MidWest/Western States with a lot of free space have a culture that has grown up around the use of the car and as such public transportation isn't as much of a requirement.

However in my opinion a good stadium should have atleast some sort of basic public transportation, no matter how car cultured the area is there is always going to be a minority who don't drive for whatever reason. I quite like Chicago's Soldier field and U.S. Cellular as both have good transport links but also lots of parking so caters for both.

The Oakland Coliseum is one of the best in this regard. Adjacent to I-880, walking distance to a BART station (with a dedicated bridge), and adjacent to an Amtrak line which has a station for special events.

Ralph Wilson Stadium is pretty good in my experience, the police do a great job of managing the traffic and setting up counterflows, and there is always plenty of parking. It's a 10 minute drive for me on non game days and it's never taken me longer than 30 minutes to get there and park for a game, or get home after a game.

Or the more generalized title of "how much better the rest of the world is at everything than the US?"

I didn't intend that to happen, as I said in my op I think Philadelphia has a really good setup. Chicago is another example.

Minneapolis' stadium/arena positioning is quite effective, Target Field (Twins, MLB), The Metrodome (Vikings, NFL) and Target Center (Timberwolves, NBA) are all on the edge of downtown with Several highways, light rail and bike access. Target Field (which also has a commuter rail line terminus behind left field) and Target Center also have about 8,000 parking spaces in directly adjacent ramps and there are 30,000 within walking distance of all the venues, although it can be a bit of a chore trying to drive out of downtown. In three years all of the University of Minnesota's venues (TCF Stadium (Football), Williams Arena (Basketball), Mariucci Arena (mens Hockey), Ridder (womens hockey), ect) will also have direct light rail access which will be great, but having University all torn up for the next couple years is a pain in the ass. The Xcel Center (Wild, NHL) in St Paul also does pretty well in terms of transportation access.


The other city I have some experience with, Milwaukee is more of a mixed bag; The Bradley Center (where the Bucks and Marquette play) and US Cellular arena (where UWM and some minor league teams play) are well positioned downtown, and bus routes run in good position adjacent to them and the convention center, and downtown does pretty well in terms of parking, but the system in general has far too few vehicles and one might wait more than a half hour for a major route like the 15 or 30. And while Miller Park (Brewers, MLB) isn't very far outside of downtown Milwaukee, the access to its massive parking lots isn't enough and tends to back up onto the freeways pretty badly before and after games (really great tailgating scene though).

it's impossible to have a thread on here without somebody from down under steering the conversation round to Melbourne

Mate you think its bad on here, try real life Down Under..the bloody Victorians think they invented sport and will waste no opportunity to remind everyone that they are "the sporting capital of the world"yes - they not only believe that but routinely proclaim it. All on the basis of some good infrastructure and a devotion to a game played in a few states of Australia and where 10 of the 18 top division teams come from the city of Melbourne. Because it suits their argument, this is the only time the majority of Melburnians acknowledge hte existence of 2 A-League Soccer teams and a Super Rugby team. At all other times they'd rather talk about an AFL player breaking wind than get involved in a genuine discussion about the world of sport. very tiresome:(
back on topic: I do like the recent trend of MLS stadia being built downtown. Seattle, Portland and BC Place are downtown as will Houston's new arena(opposite the interstate from Minute Maid Park I believe.) A return to the good old days of metro stadia like Ebbetts field and Shribe Park perhaps?:)

I'm interested to know which city in the US people think has the best and worst stadiums, and stadium infrastructure/positioning. By stadiums obviously I mean the stadiums themselves. By stadium infrastructure/positioning I mean other factors, such as transport links and proximity to transport, positioning in terms of fans/cbd, ease of access and exit etc, proximity to food, bars etc.

To propose my own answer, I'd give Philadelphia the award for best stadiums overall and stadium infrastructure. On all sports, hockey, basketball, football and baseball, they're well served. Plus, stadiums are close to the city and are of a high standard.

On the contrary, I'd say Kansas City is served by a baseball and a football stadium which are almost in the middle of nowhere and have little if any transport links.

Ever been to a soccer game in Phili? The stadium is anything but well served.



I'd offer Seattle up as a good option in this case. CenturyLink and SafeCo are our stadiums that house the Mariners, Seahawks and Sounders. All have incredible access to the King Street Station which is directly connected to the parking lot at CenturyLink. They share parking assets and their location on the south end of the city makes it easier for those driving in from out of the city to skip the downtown traffic.

What I meant was from city centres. Obviously, for a North American style setup the students are housed within university complexes. But people from the city do need to go from time to time to the university, after all, how do all those staff get there without any major transportation?The University of Texas is one of the largest and has by far the largest athletic program in the US and it is in the heart of Austin with all kinds of transportation and access. For those universities in the smaller cities, well they are smaller cities. It is even easier in smaller towns to build easy access to such facilities than in a big city like Austin.

http://maps.google.com/maps/myplaces?hl=en&ll=30.27797,-97.732487&spn=0.033096,0.066047&mpa=0&ctz=300&mpf=0&t=k&z=15

Morgantown and WVU has its own sort of monorail-like transit system.

it was put in a an engineering project between the University and Boeing. It's primary use is to connect the three main campuses of WVU in Morgantown, not move large volumes of people across the town. All of the people I know at WVU (which is a lot because I'm from WV) do not rely on the PRT because it breaksdown a lot. They might use it for short trips to class, but they pretty much just drive to where they need to go and they certainly don't use it on game days, unless they absolutely have to.

Here's a pic of one of the cars

http://www.advancedtransit.net/atrawiki/images/thumb/b/bb/Evansdale.jpeg/300px-Evansdale.jpeg

Pittsburgh is pretty great for people that live in the center of the city because the stadiums are no more than a 15 minute walk from anywhere downtown.

^^

Ya, Pittsburgh was actually the first town that came to my mind when I saw this thread.

Pittsburgh is pretty great for people that live in the center of the city because the stadiums are no more than a 15 minute walk from anywhere downtown.
What about the other 98% of the metro area?

Los Angeles is a little strange. Staples Center is a block away from a rail line and a second rail like will serve that station beginning early next year. The Coliseum will be served by that same rail line as well and the Rose Bowl has shuttles running from Old Town and a rail line from Old Town. Even Dodger Stadium has a shuttle from Union Station.

Every major venue in the city will be accessible via public transit by early next year, but the problem is that the public transit in LA is still growing. Nobody west of Culver City has rail access and many people who have access to transit don't take it. So yeah, a lot of people in LA have or will have easy access to every stadium, but many of those don't take it and more don't have access.

Ever been to a soccer game in Phili? The stadium is anything but well served.

Agreed, but I was more ranking on the top four sports in the US.

I'd offer Seattle up as a good option in this case. CenturyLink and SafeCo are our stadiums that house the Mariners, Seahawks and Sounders. All have incredible access to the King Street Station which is directly connected to the parking lot at CenturyLink. They share parking assets and their location on the south end of the city makes it easier for those driving in from out of the city to skip the downtown traffic.

You can't criticise me for throwing up Philadelphia for having a poorly located soccer stadium when Seattle has a run down out of date Key Arena which is largely unsuitable for hosing both nba and nhl matches. I think that's worse personally.

well in key arenas defence it is pretty old and i think its positioning is good. but thats just a matter of opinion.

Id' like to add Toronto to the mix for well planned spots for sports venues. The combo of the skydome and the ACC being as downtown as you can get makes it stupid easy to get too, whether you drive, walk, or take transit. Add to that they service the Blue Jays, Argos, Raptors and the Maple Leafs and you've got almost every sport covered of the big four.

One to add to the worst? Ottawa and the Corel Centre. They had a perfect spot out right downtown in Lebreton Flats where transit could have gotten too easily, and it'd be easyish to drive too with a bit of rejigging of the roads (really anyplace in Ottawa is easy to get too driving unless your'e going across the river). Instead they slap it as far west as you can go so unless you live in the west end, it's a bloody pita to get too. Only one way in, one way out. If the team lasts long enough, maybe in twenty years, they'll do it right and move it downtown, but it's Ottawa, so I doubt it.

I would say regarding football, American style, an essential component to the stadium experience is the tailgate. So stadiums with excellent freeway connections are preferred. That Jet's stadium on Manhattan's westside was doomed from the start because you can't tailgate. College football stadiums are another excellent example of the US doing whatever the hell suits them (kind of like our continuing devotion to the Imperial system of measurement), we use these stadiums 6 or 7 times a year, and these team's fans plan accordingly. I've been to many a college game and yes it's a bitch to park, but hey that's life, no one is going to build a subway or lightrail in Gainesville Florida for 90,000 drunk people to use 7 days a year. Baseball on the other hand is totally different. I think the teams and cities (it's not just the cities doing though) that integrate the best (winning also helps) have the best set up. Think New York, Yankees as of now, though the Mets are conveniently located via subway as well, Boston, San Francisco, Philly, DC, Baltimore and the Chicago teams, plus several others. It's not just infrastructure but that there are 81 home games in baseball, only 41 in basketball and only 8 in the NFL. Home games and other stadium usage definitely plays a role in stadium infrastructure. At risk of rambling on too long you also have a number of arenas that since they are used for both NBA and NHL also get a lot of game nights, not to mention concerts and other events. I think almost every major US city now has their major arena located in or near downtown. I know San Francisco doesn't have one and Sacramento's is located in the middle of nowhere in relation to it's downtown, Chicago's is in the west of downtown, but pretty much every US city has a downtown arena, and if you don't you should get one. See Oklahoma City Thundersonics as a reason to bring yourself into the 90's. I don't know why cities don't just build arenas and then rent them out to NBA/NHL teams. Screw concession agreements and tax breaks, just build it, use it as an extension of your convention center, or as an employment center or gun range. Store salt in it for the winter (Atlanta). Hell it's a big building, usually with no architectural significance, that's very elastic. Great for state fairs and that Poison/Duran Duran bill.

You can't criticise me for throwing up Philadelphia for having a poorly located soccer stadium when Seattle has a run down out of date Key Arena which is largely unsuitable for hosing both nba and nhl matches. I think that's worse personally.

That would be a relevant arguement if we had an NBA or NHL team...but we dont. And since when was this about the quality of the arenas? I'm pretty sure we were discussing location...and if we are, then Key Arena, were it still in use for either NBA or NHL, would be quite alright given it's prime location on the northern side of downtown Seattle just below the towering Space Needle. I'd prefer it were down in the stadium district but it's worked well enough up where it is for many many years.

I would say regarding football, American style, an essential component to the stadium experience is the tailgate. So stadiums with excellent freeway connections are preferred. That Jet's stadium on Manhattan's westside was doomed from the start because you can't tailgate. College football stadiums are another excellent example of the US doing whatever the hell suits them (kind of like our continuing devotion to the Imperial system of measurement), we use these stadiums 6 or 7 times a year, and these team's fans plan accordingly. I've been to many a college game and yes it's a bitch to park, but hey that's life, no one is going to build a subway or lightrail in Gainesville Florida for 90,000 drunk people to use 7 days a year. Baseball on the other hand is totally different. I think the teams and cities (it's not just the cities doing though) that integrate the best (winning also helps) have the best set up. Think New York, Yankees as of now, though the Mets are conveniently located via subway as well, Boston, San Francisco, Philly, DC, Baltimore and the Chicago teams, plus several others. It's not just infrastructure but that there are 81 home games in baseball, only 41 in basketball and only 8 in the NFL. Home games and other stadium usage definitely plays a role in stadium infrastructure. At risk of rambling on too long you also have a number of arenas that since they are used for both NBA and NHL also get a lot of game nights, not to mention concerts and other events. I think almost every major US city now has their major arena located in or near downtown. I know San Francisco doesn't have one and Sacramento's is located in the middle of nowhere in relation to it's downtown, Chicago's is in the west of downtown, but pretty much every US city has a downtown arena, and if you don't you should get one. See Oklahoma City Thundersonics as a reason to bring yourself into the 90's. I don't know why cities don't just build arenas and then rent them out to NBA/NHL teams. Screw concession agreements and tax breaks, just build it, use it as an extension of your convention center, or as an employment center or gun range. Store salt in it for the winter (Atlanta). Hell it's a big building, usually with no architectural significance, that's very elastic. Great for state fairs and that Poison/Duran Duran bill.

Yes, totally agree. Here in Buffalo our arena and ballpark are downtown, while the stadium is out in the suburbs surrounded by parking lots, and we tailgate with the best of them. It's the perfect setup.

Kansas City looks like an awful setup. How bizarre that on SSC it would be argued that transit isn't important...

I agree that Seattle's setup is very good for NFL, MLB, and MLS. Two stadiums on very little land, including an exhibition hall. Each stadium has a parking garage, which combined might serve 1/3 of football attendees (the largest crowds). The rest of the parking is efficiently served by nearby office buildings, streets, etc. Transit, which is used pretty heavily for games, includes commuter rail, light rail, most Downtown bus routes, and Washington State Ferries. Freeways nearby include I-90 and I-5. The stadiums themselves are excellent, including a movable roof for baseball that takes away the uncertainty. The stadium area lacks hotels, but there is one (250 rooms) next door, a 30-second walk from the gate at Safeco and a minute or two from Qwest.

Efficient use of land is crucial. I can't believe what a freaking waste some stadiums are. We use about 25-30 acres for the two stadiums, exhibition hall, and two parking garages combined. Some places use 10x that.

It's important to have public land next door. How else would you get the gauntlets of hot dog sellers etc.?

We do have an unfortunate 10-acre surface parking lot between the football stadium and Pioneer Square, i.e. the edge of Downtown proper. However, half of that lot has a mixed-use complex planned, which has announced an August start and is currently showing signs of activity.... The other half will be saved for tailgating (5 acres = 750 cars or so), temporary storage of seating sections, public events, etc.

Even if I never seen a US Stadium, via photos my favorite stadium is for me the Cowboys Stadium and the Soldier Field.
The worst is the San Francisco 49ers actual stadium. But I heard that they will construct a new stadium

The Bank Atlantic Center in Sunrise, FL (where the Florida Panthers NHL team plays) is walking distance to alligators and other wildlife since it was built across the street (literally) from the Everglades in the far western suburbs.

Aerial of the stadium:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=sunrise,+fl&hl=en&ll=26.15929,-80.328126&spn=0.019029,0.043774&sll=26.091733,-81.602698&sspn=0.395901,0.557556&safe=moderate&t=h&z=15

Everything is pretty centrally located in downtown Indy. Victory Field is one of the better places to park for Lucas Oil Stadium, and Conseco isn't too far.

Kansas City looks like an awful setup. How bizarre that on SSC it would be argued that transit isn't important...


We have three indoor areans downtown with over 10k seats, so the arena situation is great, the football stadium has easy highway access and lots of tailgating. The only prob with KC is the soccer stadium and Nascar track are way out in a sparsly populated suburban part of Kansas and many would like the baseball stadium downtown but its to late to move any of them now as all the stadiums are brand new or newly renovated sans kemper.
There was also a article in the KC paper this week discussing the future of kemper arena now that downtown has 3 arenas.
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/07/18/3021919/kemper-arenas-future-is-up-in.html

What about the other 98% of the metro area?

As someone who has been to numerous Steelers games over the last 10 years, traffic into and out of the North Shore flows fairly well, as long as your aren't trying to show up a hour before kickoff. If you are arriving later, you can also park downtown and walk across the bridges or park at Station Square and take the ferry. On top of that, the new T line will be serving the stadiums starting in 2012.

You want to see a cluster F? Try going to a game at FedEX Field for a Redskins game. It's a 45 minute metro ride from Arlington, VA, then a 25 minute walk from the station. Or you can take the beltway or 295, but that is at least an 1.5 hour commitment to AND from. I left four hours early for a game once and got there at halftime.

Give me Pittsburgh any day.

That would be a relevant arguement if we had an NBA or NHL team...but we dont.

You don't, because the nba took it off you because keyarena was out of date and not to nba standards.

And since when was this about the quality of the arenas?

It's about both quality of arenas and location. I cite my op:

I'm interested to know which city in the US people think has the best and worst stadiums, and stadium infrastructure/positioning. By stadiums obviously I mean the stadiums themselves. By stadium infrastructure/positioning I mean other factors, such as transport links and proximity to transport, positioning in terms of fans/cbd, ease of access and exit etc, proximity to food, bars etc.

To propose my own answer, I'd give Philadelphia the award for best stadiums overall and stadium infrastructure. On all sports, hockey, basketball, football and baseball, they're well served. Plus, stadiums are close to the city and are of a high standard.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but I was hoping for both. Regardless, I don't think a city who gets a franchise taken away from them due to the poor quality of the stadium can quality for a good example of city infrastructure. Maybe ok, but good? Ahead of many other cities?

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/09/10/1027_quirkiest_stadium_naming_rights_deals/image/008_conoco_kincaid.jpg

ConocoPhillips Stadium and Field will have the distinction of being the smallest stadium named for the one of the biggest corporations. When the still-under construction, soccer-specific stadium in Anchorage opens next year, it will have a capacity of only 2,000 fans and will be used mainly by local soccer leagues.

Any idea? Seems rather small for an American football stadium. Hmmm...


http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2893/capturenew1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/capturenew1.jpg/)

Half of the seats are boxes. That's a bizarre stadium.

the score board is too small and waaaay to many boxes.

Interesting article from Grantland (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/6851333/the-architecture-disaster) about why New York's new stadiums/arenas are lacking in design.

Any idea? Seems rather small for an American football stadium. Hmmm...


http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2893/capturenew1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/capturenew1.jpg/)


Looks like a small South American stadium, like some the recent Colombian and Peruvian stadiums with all the boxes stacked up along the sides and a single shallow bowl.

great

Where did you find that picture?

That's a college field based on the hash marks, so some sort of mid level college program with way too much money

Interesting

more a football/soccer stadium than a NFL stadium

This thread is about ideas for a new cubs stadium but you don't need to be a cubs fan or even know who the cubs are just share your ideas for a new baseball stadium, feel free to share pictures too. Try to give a detailed response to the question don't just write one sentence.

They just need to remodel the current stadium.

Tear down Wrigley and build this

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4066/4484872582_1612d09e3c.jpg

Wrigley Field is great. There is no reason for a remodel. I was just there a couple months ago. Having grown up in the bay area and going to Giants games at the most beautiful ballpark in baseball I had low expectations. While Wrigley is missing many modern amenities, it is in great shape for it's age and the atmosphere is fantastic.

^^^^ What stadium is that picture from ?

]in my opinion wrigley should just be remodeled, im glad that the planned remodel wont change the park much, just make it more sound and make the concourse better.http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6192/6053773803_d4617b65cd_m.jpg[/IMG[IMG]http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6076/6053774615_750fc047ec_m.jpg[/IMG[IMG]http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6082/6053774417_ea76d17409_m.jpg

im sorry my last post got messed up but what i said was that i think wrigley should stay the same but i also post a picture of the stadium i designed that would also be cool for the cubs if it was on the lakefront. if you click the link it will take you to the stadium.

^^^^ What stadium is that picture from ?

looks like one of the old cookie cutter/ multi purpose stadiums in either Cincinnati or Pittsburgh, just judging by the hills...

looks like one of the old cookie cutter/ multi purpose stadiums in either Cincinnati or Pittsburgh, just judging by the hills...

that is candlestick park in San francisco

As a Chicagoan and a life long Cubs fan I would probably write a dissertation on the issues of a new Cubs stadium. Needless to say I have thought long and hard about what can or should be done.

For the longest time +25 years I thought that Wrigley should basically be left untouched or only implement relatively small aesthetic and structural upgrades. I'm not sure what in me changed but I slowly became a proponent of a full turnover the stadium from foul pole to foul pole. I would also like to keep the famous Wrigley Marquee on the front of the stadium if it can be integrated. This may be an unrealistic request though.

Anything less with be less then satisfactory given that I don't think it it would solve the aesthetic or structural problems with the stadium. If one is to spend 100's of millions of dollars in a touch up one may a well spend a few extra hundred and do a complete revamp and solve all the issues of the stadium such as obstructed viewing of the sky boxes that impedes viewing of many of the top rows of the lower deck or making room for escalators, plenty of retail/food spaces, and individual seating space for our ever growing fat asses.

This would effectively level the whole structure except the outfield wall, bleachers, and scoreboard. I would actually remove a few of the top rows from the bleacher in order to give it the sloping effect which I do miss ever since they did the bleacher expansion five or so years ago.

Now what to replace the new grandstand is very hard to fathom. I definitely want to stay away from attempting to replicate the retro style that many of the MLB parks have attempted. There have some abysmal examples and some that merely not offending but I can't think of one retro facade that I think is a truly stunning or noteworthy. So I would go with something glassy and translucent. The city and park deserve for Wrigley to remain unique and to stand out as place to be fun and unpresumptuous but also sophisticated. It deserves better then to be another HOK retro retread shick.

It will also be very important for the stadium to exterior to compliment the yet to be "triangle building" that will be offices/retail building. This building will be on Waveland and Clark Streets in between the building and stadium will line a pedestrian plaza. Given the close proximity and heights these buildings will share having them not compliment each other would be very noticeable.

By the way I absolutely have no faith for the current Cubs own (Nebraska native Tom Ricketts) to really reach and attempt to do anything progressive and inspirational. He very strikes much strikes me as very smart obviously but a hick at heart with banal taste. The idea that he obviously thought it OK to blight Wrigley with the outfield Toyota sign and the Macaroni noodle sculpture I fear are a warning of what would be to come. If my fears are true then I would just as much have the Ricketts do the minimum upkeep necessary and we wait till the day we get a visionary owner who would know how to make the best of the stadium and the area.



So I don't have so much a strict idea of what I want the stadium to look like but there are stadiums and buildings that I would very much like to see the Cubs take inspiration from............

The stadium now......

Front marquee
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9760/5250933.jpg

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/5002/5250946.jpg

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/3082/25801693668c4cc95c29.jpg

The Smirinoff Porch
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9910/thesmirnoffporch.jpg

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/712/59462150612978647916313.jpg



to take inspiration from.......



The Roof

I would very love to keep a real roof structure like Wrigley has now. To many new MLB stadiums have faux roofs which aren't really roofs that give you protection at all. However I would like to replace the current roof with something much more translucent in order to allow sun to come through on in on the many sunny Chicago days. I have ever thought about roof panels that could be turned 90 degrees in order to let in sunlight in nice but not too hot days.

the roof of the new Modern Wing of the Art Institute of Chicago.
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/8917/aiofchicagomodernartroo.jpg

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/8917/aiofchicagomodernartroo.jpg

or something akin to St.James Park in Newcastle.

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/4931/stjamesparkinnewcastle.jpg



Inside Concourse

The inside concourses I would like to maybe go for an understated but classy wood and glass look. Perhaps something similar to the Richmond speed skating oval in Vancouver.

An inside that is warm and inviting yet sophisticated unlike say the cold stone of New Yankee Stadium. The devil would be in the details but I would like the inside to feel more like a stadium with real rooms and a sense of place in contrast to the cold concrete and unvarnished concrete floors and exposed concrete underside of stands that too many stadiums don't bother touching up.

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2585/richmondspeedskatingova.jpg

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2585/richmondspeedskatingova.jpg

:nono:

http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/6460/p502244chicagoupperdeck.jpg




Grandstand

For the grandstand itself I would very much want something like PNC Parks. I want to two decks both relatively close to the ground and up tight against the field. PNC's highest rows in the second deck is the closest to the field in the majors I think. I want Wrigley to be very near the top as well. The only major difference I would make is I would put another level of sky boxes behind the top row on the second deck. This would basically give the Cubs nearly twice as many as sky box space as the Pirates have and which they could easily sell given all the corporate clients and big wigs that Wrigley/Chicago would attract. I would also spruce up the media box compared to PNC but that is rather minor.

I would also put about a dozen of LCD TVs spaced apart and hanging from the roof of the stadium for replays and promotional stuff because my new Wrigley Field is still not have any jumbo tron.


http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/7623/pncparkpittsburgpirates.jpg

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7623/pncparkpittsburgpirates.jpg



Lights

The lights are a tough one because I really love the lights of Wrigley even though they are a relatively recent addition (1988). The style now wouldn't go well with the kind of stadium I'm envisioning however. That said I want the same basic set up. I hate ballparks that have the right lighting like at the new Twins or Yankee Stadium. So I want something akin to the Wrigley lights now that would aesthetically compliment the more modern park I envision.

Wrigley lights today...
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4952/nightgame.jpg

No :cripes:
http://mlb.mlb.com/min/images/ballpark/y2009/649_tf_lights.gif



Upper deck porch

Next I would take the massive space behind the upper deck that is now the The Smirinoff Porch that is still massively underutilized IMO and has great views of the north side which should perhaps even lend itself to being open on non game days. I would spruce it up as prime mingling space that would also allow for upscale dining and drinking quarters. Perhaps have some outdoor cabina-esque spaces for small private parties and groups some of who would be those who are in new upper deck skyboxes. Seams like the Cubs may already be on to this but it has been a no brainer to me for years......

http://www.cubbiedoc.com/2010/10/cubs-give-hints-to-potential-renovation.html
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/2856/patio.gif



Outsdie Facade
The outside facade I have a few ideas. One is a heavy implementation of glass and the other is to pay homage to Wrigley by interjecting some white in the facade.

Meinel Optical Sciences Building, Tucson, Arizona, USA
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/5166/meinelopticalsciencesbu.jpg

Welsh National Assembly
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4016/welshnationalassembly.jpg

grimshaw - troy, new york
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/6898/grimshawtroynewyorkusa4.jpg

Zlín, Czech Republic - Convention Center
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/53/zlnczechrepublicconvent.jpg


Outside of Wrigley.......

The new triangle building :colgate:

inspired by a building in Stockholm. Add a few storys though. :)
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/3204/stockholmtorsgatanneigh.jpg

unstudio education agency - Groningen
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9861/unstudioeducationagency.jpg


Then there is the whole other issue of the surrounding neighborhood. Equally important is to develop the west side of Clark St. right across from the stadium hopeful with a bunch of mid-levels of 3-6 floors with some outside public space for crowds to linger a bit. If Ricketts had the funds I would guy the whole space and build an underground parking garage that would extend to under Wrigley Field. This would provide much needed parking which is very costly but needed around Wrigley even though I would be inclined to go tell drivers to screw off. However there is a lot of money to be made if one could build parking right near the park so I'm sure I'm being realistic.

^^^^ What stadium is that picture from ?

looks like one of the old cookie cutter/ multi purpose stadiums in either Cincinnati or Pittsburgh, just judging by the hills...

that is candlestick park in San francisco
Three Rivers Stadium in Pittsburgh

Three Rivers Stadium in Pittsburgh

Agreed. That is Mt. Washington in the background. Candlestick looks nothing like that.

Any idea? Seems rather small for an American football stadium. Hmmm...


http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2893/capturenew1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/capturenew1.jpg/)

Slap a upper deck on it with 20,000 more seats and you have new Candlestick :crazy:

Agreed. That is Mt. Washington in the background. Candlestick looks nothing like that.

The stadium may not be candlestick but take a look at three rivers what did the bottom level of blue seat just disapear?

The stadium may not be candlestick but take a look at three rivers what did the bottom level of blue seat just disapear?

By the power of the internet!...

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1203/98871000.jpg

You can see the Pittsburgh skyline beyond. Also, judging from the "ATES" on the 1st base dugout, that would be the Pirates dugout. So yes, that picture was indeed Three Rivers.

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/major-league-soccer/2011/10/11/2707431/mls-commissioner-don-garber-if-we-can-build-the-stadium-we

The most important sport of the world in the most important city of the world !!!

I hope and think that the Cosmos ( or another NYC soccer team ) will play in MLS at Citi Field by 2013 and in a new soccer stadium in Queens by 2015.

Borough Boys NYC

The most important city of the world !!!


Self-important, I'll give you.

Sell out RedBull Arena first...

There are a handful of cities more deserving than NYC right now.

Self-important, I'll give you.

haha yeah, it's not even remotely the most important sport in NYC.

Two teams in one city has already failed in LA. When NYC can compete with the massive crowds of Seattle Sounders games THEN they can BEGIN to think about another team there. Expanding too much too quickly will be a massive mistake.

Why ruin a beautiful stadium like Citi with Soccer? Go prove you can sale out a small football stadium before you go to a BIG stadium. Prove you can sale out your main teams new stadium before we talk about getting you a new team.

Why ruin a beautiful stadium like Citi with Soccer?
Good point. It was designed for baseball, not sports.

http://www.goal.com/en-us/news/1110/major-league-soccer/2011/10/11/2707431/mls-commissioner-don-garber-if-we-can-build-the-stadium-we

The most important sport of the world in the most important city of the world !!!

I hope and think that the Cosmos ( or another NYC soccer team ) will play in MLS at Citi Field by 2013 and in a new soccer stadium in Queens by 2015.

Borough Boys NYC

The headline reads:

MLS Commissioner Don Garber: If we can build the stadium, we will have the 20th team in New York City

Good luck with that Napoli.

Maybe the MLS teams will play Champions League in the future.

Can't see New York getting a team anytime soon. Its not the most important sports city in the world, Think thats London well next year anyway ! Think they are wanting to built a new stadium next door to Citi Field. Can't see them letting Major League Soccer teams play in the Champions League.

The headline reads:

MLS Commissioner Don Garber: If we can build the stadium, we will have the 20th team in New York City

Good luck with that Napoli.

How you know who I am a Napoli fan ?

Its not the most important sports city in the world

No, it's not. But the headline doesn't state that either, it's the most important city "of" the world. lol, "of" the world? It's the most important city "IN" the world...or "ON" the world if you want to be technical.

^^Soooo.... why this not moved to Soccer Stadiums of USA thread?

How you know who I am a Napoli fan ?

Because you spew the same nonsense on the BigSoccer forum. Did you seriously people wouldn't know who you are if you used a different screen name? Every post you make is the same, it includes something about a stadium in NYC with some unrealistic date. If I had a nickel for every one of your posts like this I'd probably be able to build my own stadium in NYC with that money.

Because you spew the same nonsense on the BigSoccer forum. Did you seriously people wouldn't know who you are if you used a different screen name? Every post you make is the same, it includes something about a stadium in NYC with some unrealistic date. If I had a nickel for every one of your posts like this I'd probably be able to build my own stadium in NYC with that money.

I like your last idea. Perhaps it can be the ideal solution...........:)

I would like to see a MLS stadium built near Shea and the USTA near Flushing Meadows Park. It is the only logical place in the whole city, IMO. But just calling the team the Cosmos is not the final solution. The ownership must understand MLS inside and out. The ownership must understand that civic pride in portland and Seattle is unfortunately not enough in NYC. I wish it were.

with two baseball teams and two American Football teams (ok, the football stadium is in New Jersey) i don't see a new stadium for a less popular sport any time soon.

The ownership must understand that civic pride in portland and Seattle is unfortunately not enough in NYC. I wish it were.

I'd gladly trade some of Portland's enthusiasm soccer for some enthusiasm for baseball and/or hockey--two sports that I love a lot more than soccer, but that Portlanders don't give two rips about.

Maybe the MLS teams will play Champions League in the future.

There was that bizarre rumour in the Guardian a week ago that suggested UEFA are considering it. I personally don't believe it.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/879574-uefa-new-york-cosmos-to-receive-invite-to-play-in-champions-league

Maybe the MLS teams will play Champions League in the future.

I'll take "Things That Will Never Happen" for $400, Alex.


In all seriousness, there is a realistic possibility of CONCACAF and CONMEBOL having a formally merged Champions League once MLS becomes more established. Might be harsh for clubs from the smaller nations, but as a tourney that would produce more big name clashes to draw international viewership. More games like Club America vs Santos, Boca vs. Chivas, etc. Especially as casual American footie fans become familiar with Latin American soccer brands.

I'll take "Things That Will Never Happen" for $400, Alex.


In all seriousness, there is a realistic possibility of CONCACAF and CONMEBOL having a formally merged Champions League once MLS becomes more established. Might be harsh for clubs from the smaller nations, but as a tourney that would produce more big name clashes to draw international viewership. More games like Club America vs Santos, Boca vs. Chivas, etc. Especially as casual American footie fans become familiar with Latin American soccer brands.

MLS clubs have already tried their luck in CONMEBOL competition, I believe DC participated in Copa Sudamericana. The problem is travel, it's just way too far.

MLS clubs have already tried their luck in CONMEBOL competition, I believe DC participated in Copa Sudamericana. The problem is travel, it's just way too far.

Or the fact that CONCACAF banned its teams from participating in Copa Sudamericana when they created the CONCACAF Champions League. Although that may change now that Chuck Blazer is gone. The CONMEBOL president said last year "the door is open" to MLS participation in Libertadores but there's a lot of politics and a ton of bad blood between CONCACAF and CONMEBOL.

The Superdome new LED Lights

http://media.nola.com/tpphotos/photo/2011/10/10166942-essay.jpg


http://media.nola.com/tpphotos/photo/2011/10/10166944-essay.jpg


http://media.nola.com/tpphotos/photo/2011/10/10166950-essay.jpg


http://media.nola.com/tpphotos/photo/2011/10/10166935-essay.jpg

lipstick on a pigdome

Although that may change now that Chuck Blazer is gone. The CONMEBOL president said last year "the door is open" to MLS participation in Libertadores but there's a lot of politics and a ton of bad blood between CONCACAF and CONMEBOL.Yeah, it will be interesting to see what eveolves. Metro's right about the travel concerns, which several MLS coaches and players mentioned before at the idea. CONMEBOL wants access to north American money, CONCACAF wants to parlay off the brand names of south American soccer clubs, so it seems only a matter of time till something happens.

In the meantime, CONCACAF has their work cut out for them in trying to develop pro soccer, and may lead a global revisit to the idea of multi-national leagues. One of Blazer's lackeys was pushing for a Caribbean league and a joint league of central America nations. Since the CONCACAF Champions League isn't a huge money maker, the question was would these models yield more profit for the clubs? I think they'll keep exploring this, because CONCACAF lacks the volume of talented nations to add true appeal.

The University of Alabama at Birmingham (UAB) Blazers football team are considering leaving the old Legion Field and build an on-campus stadium. Here's a rendering:
http://media.al.com/businessnews/photo/10263879-large.jpg
If this idea comes to life, we have another horseshoe stadium.

http://media.al.com/birmingham-news/photo/8861246-large.jpg

Here is a pic of a UAB game at Legion Field. The problem is that everyone in Birmingham is either an Alabama or Auburn fan. There is very little interest in UAB football.

Gotta fix the spelling of "Birmingham".

Gotta fix the spelling of "Birmingham".

And gotta keep in mind that dedicated threads are reserved for stadia 30,000+ ;)

another UCF clone :yawn:

please just kill this program and bring back UAH hockey

another UCF clone :yawn:

please just kill this program and bring back UAH hockey

most of the college behemoths started off in some small similar form to these "UCF clones"

http://media.al.com/birmingham-news/photo/8861246-large.jpg

Here is a pic of a UAB game at Legion Field. The problem is that everyone in Birmingham is either an Alabama or Auburn fan. There is very little interest in UAB football.

3-9 with a new coach? (http://search.espn.go.com/uab/)

I doubt "intrest" is the real issue...

3-9 with a new coach? (http://search.espn.go.com/uab/)

I doubt "intrest" is the real issue...

Trust me, there has never been interest in UAB football, no matter how well they've done. Admittedly they've always been pretty mediocre. Maybe a new facility will get them better recruits.

Trust me, there has never been interest in UAB football, no matter how well they've done. Admittedly they've always been pretty mediocre. Maybe a new facility will get them better recruits.

If they could break out of UAT's grip they might make something of themselves, but as of right now, the BoT is content to suppress UAB football.

And gotta keep in mind that dedicated threads are reserved for stadia 30,000+ ;)

the stadium will probably be 30,000

The Superdome new LED Lights

http://media.nola.com/tpphotos/photo/2011/10/10166942-essay.jpg


http://media.nola.com/tpphotos/photo/2011/10/10166944-essay.jpg


http://media.nola.com/tpphotos/photo/2011/10/10166950-essay.jpg


http://media.nola.com/tpphotos/photo/2011/10/10166935-essay.jpg

Superb, the renovation is looking great!

The exterior is looking better than it ever has, that new "champagne" finish or whatever they call it does look good. The seating bowl is looking a little disjointed at the moment but if they replaced the confetti seats with black and yellow one it would look sharp on the inside too.

qw4OdUaVmEA

Just a little.

I don't think so. It's these sorts of facilities that will produce some of the best football players in the country, and no doubt, will draw people to the University of Tennessee.

After some digging, it's a $40mil facility and Peyton Manning put up $30mil

If you think College Football is amateur Do I Have News For You.

They forgot something! Where's the academic study room? lol

"THUNDER DOME OF POWER!!!!" This might be a little over the top.

If you think College Football is amateur Do I Have News For You.

Well, it's officially amateur. But that's about it.

Clearly it's more of a recruiting tool than anything else. The same thing happened in college basketball. Florida built an over the top practice facility with all the bells and whistles that wowed recruits and now everyone's building them.

If you think College Football is amateur Do I Have News For You.

notice the ' '

Clearly it's more of a recruiting tool than anything else. The same thing happened in college basketball. Florida built an over the top practice facility with all the bells and whistles that wowed recruits and now everyone's building them.

with the recruiting wars going on as they are, eventually college athletes could be taking a step down -in terms of facilities- when they go to the pros....

Is this?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7004/6730214087_0dbf622ca4_b.jpg

http://www.kfcyumcenter.com/images/arena_bowl.jpg

There has been an arms race of college football and basketball facilities for while. While that video looks nice, I don't see anything special or unique that most larger FBS schools don't have already have. Especially the locker room, weight room and training facilities. The indoor field looks nice, but only because its longer than their current indoor facility which is damn impressive itself. Then the video lies. Players will not be overlooked by the best coaching staff in the country........................LOL.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4066/4484872582_1612d09e3c.jpg

^^^^ What stadium is that picture from ?

Three Rivers Stadium, Pittsburgh PA 1970-2001. Check the link below for verfication.

http://www.flickriver.com/photos/43289453@N03/sets/72157624218926901/

While that video looks nice, I don't see anything special or unique that most larger FBS schools don't have already have. Especially the locker room, weight room and training facilities.

Except the part where Tennessee IS one of the larger FBS schools in terms of football and they basically already have all of that stuff. They are just paying $40mil to add to it all. This is all an addition to an already massive training complex.

1. If you are a talented youngster, but didn't make your graduation in school, is it still possible to join a college?

2. Is it possible to join a proffesional team of NFL or NBA without the path of playing at a college?

3. is it true, that the good athletes on the college don't need to learn for their marks and get automatically good marks to focus on the games, because it is very important for the college to succeed in these games?

1. If you are a talented youngster, but didn't make your graduation in school, is it still possible to join a college? Technically no. Universities and colleges are only supposed to admit students who have successfully completed primary and secondary education. If a student failed to graduate High School then he would need a GED (graduate equivalency diploma) in order to be eligible for college.
2. Is it possible to join a proffesional team of NFL or NBA without the path of playing at a college?Yes, but the athlete would need to wait 3 years (NFL) or 1 year (NBA) to participate in either league per the agreement between those leagues and their players' unions.
3. is it true, that the good athletes on the college don't need to learn for their marks and get automatically good marks to focus on the games, because it is very important for the college to succeed in these games?If we assume the student isn't cheating, then there are incidents of where student athletes are so good and it's assumed they'll be a highly paid pro someday that they take only the minimum amount of classes, take only easy classes with marginal workloads, and the also take full advantage of any study assistance provided to scholar athletes. The result is that athlete taking token classes merely to maintain their status as a student of that school.

Tennessee is my alma mater and I have lived and breathed Big Orange since I could crawl, so I can't help but be a homer about this. Yes, it is entirely necessary to have a facility like this if you want to compete in the SEC. You don't draft your players, you have to make them want to play for you. Have the nicest facilities is key in that. This video is purely propaganda to make 18 year old want to come to Tennessee, so I would expect it to be over the top.

As was stated earlier, this is just a $40 expansion and renovation of the existing facility. I graduated in 2001 and this is the second expansion since then. I used to go to summer camp at Neyland-Thompson and even back in the mid 1990's it was pretty amazing.

They don't mention an academic center in the video because that is in a seperate building next to the track. That is for all the student atheletes though, not just the football players. They also have their own dorm and cafeteria.

UT has amazing facilities for all their sports. The athletes live like kings there.
http://www.utsports.com/facilities/index.html

Except the part where Tennessee IS one of the larger FBS schools in terms of football and they basically already have all of that stuff. They are just paying $40mil to add to it all. This is all an addition to an already massive training complex.

point I was making is that its not unusual for larger FBS schools to have such facilities, which is the question that was asked. And yes, its pretty much necessary if you even want to even be competitive in one of the top conferences.

If you think College Football is amateur Do I Have News For You.

For most of the players it is very much an amateur sport.

Of the 200 or so players that get drafted every year, there are thousands of other people who stop playing after college and go on to a regular life.

how are they going to build it without interrupting the season?

it overlaps Busch Stadium http://www.collegefun4u.com/track.php?u=4

Is this?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7004/6730214087_0dbf622ca4_b.jpg

http://www.kfcyumcenter.com/images/arena_bowl.jpg

Awesome arena, sad name. I cant believe they didnt call it the KenTaco Hut Arena!

For most of the players it is very much an amateur sport.

Of the 200 or so players that get drafted every year, there are thousands of other people who stop playing after college and go on to a regular life.

for FBS players and D1 basketball players(10,000+ players), they are not amateur, they are getting special treatment like crazy. They are going to be getting $2000 a year in free money, plus free tuition and food, tons of free clothes, get to do lots of free traveling(to bowl games or preseason basketball tournements in places like vegas, mexico, etc), get special treatment during recruiting(aka girls), get special treatment by teachers and get free tutors, etc.

for FBS players and D1 basketball players(10,000+ players), they are not amateur, they are getting special treatment like crazy. They are going to be getting $2000 a year in free money, plus free tuition and food, tons of free clothes, get to do lots of free traveling(to bowl games or preseason basketball tournements in places like vegas, mexico, etc), get special treatment during recruiting(aka girls), get special treatment by teachers and get free tutors, etc.

.....and division 1A schools make millions of dollars from the ability of these young persons to play a particular sport.

.....and division 1A schools make millions of dollars from the ability of these young persons to play a particular sport.

Only the BCS (or Power 6 if you prefer) teams actually make money on their athletic program.

It may not even be that many.

.....and division 1A schools make millions of dollars from the ability of these young persons to play a particular sport.

Around 15-20 of the 300+ D1 schools turn a profit, most schools lose millions of dollars every year.

For Every Ohio State/Texas type of school there are 20 North Texas' or Western Michigan U's that lose money. Even most BCS conference school's athletic departments lose money.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5490686

Around 15-20 of the 300+ D1 schools turn a profit, most schools lose millions of dollars every year.

For Every Ohio State/Texas type of school there are 20 North Texas' or Western Michigan U's that lose money. Even most BCS conference school's athletic departments lose money.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5490686
The program might lose money (or break even due to creative accounting), but the impact on the university as a whole is much greater. Aside from direct gameday donations, there are also more long lasting relationships (and $$ giving) fostered from successful athletic programs.

They might operate at a loss in the athletics dept., but they're not a net loss for the university.

Is this?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7004/6730214087_0dbf622ca4_b.jpg

http://www.kfcyumcenter.com/images/arena_bowl.jpg
University of Louisville (Louisville, KY) basketball arena.

Mike

The key phrase being used here is "Athletic program". Many many many D-1 football programs make money. Same with basketball. With Title IX though, many sports that don't make money have to be kept alive because they are women's sports.

Hey, one of my pictures for my school's football stadium made it on Bleacher Report!

I mean, yeah it's b/r and it kinda ruins the moment, but I'm glad some of my "work" is out there.... probably because it's the only picture that captures the stadium as it should be seen.

It's #3 on the 30 Worst Stadiums and Arenas in American Sports (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/779467-the-30-worst-stadiums-and-arenas-in-american-sports#/articles/779467-the-30-worst-stadiums-and-arenas-in-american-sports/page/29). And that's just about the ONLY thing I agree with them about.

Hey, one of my pictures for my school's football stadium made it on Bleacher Report!

I mean, yeah it's b/r and it kinda ruins the moment, but I'm glad some of my "work" is out there.... probably because it's the only picture that captures the stadium as it should be seen.

It's #3 on the 30 Worst Stadiums and Arenas in American Sports (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/779467-the-30-worst-stadiums-and-arenas-in-american-sports#/articles/779467-the-30-worst-stadiums-and-arenas-in-american-sports/page/29). And that's just about the ONLY thing I agree with them about.

Worst list ever

Nice picture. Had page had some great looking birds.
KFC Yum Center is a joke name of a area tho.

Worst list ever

I know. That's why I said, it's the ONLY thing I agree with....

After some digging, it's a $40mil facility and Peyton Manning put up $30mil

Sorry, but Peyton only donated $1 million (still a generous donation) towards the facility. His $1 million donation brought their total donations up to $30 million on the $39 million facility.

Hard choice! I choose LAhttp://www.collegefun4u.com/track.php?u=4

Seattle sports-arena talks well under way, documents show (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017426859_arena05m.html)

A wealthy San Francisco hedge-fund manager and officials in the Seattle mayor's office have been working behind the scenes for eight months to bring an NBA team back to the city as early as next fall and build a new arena, according to emails and documents that reveal a far more concerted effort than previously known.

A Dec. 13 agenda for a meeting between the parties shows they were talking about details such as a "Review of Basic Deal Structure," "Financing Issues," including "City Debt Capacity," and "Security for Public Financing."

The documents, released Friday to The Seattle Times under a public-disclosure request, also provide the first glimpse of how the largely unknown hedge-fund manager, 44-year-old Seattle native Christopher Hansen, approached the city about his desire to buy an NBA team and build an arena south of Safeco Field.

http://i.imgur.com/ZCrjI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8Dr86.gif

candlestick park is just so bad.

cant wait for the new Santa Clara stadium

Yeah, it will be interesting to see what eveolves. Metro's right about the travel concerns, which several MLS coaches and players mentioned before at the idea. CONMEBOL wants access to north American money, CONCACAF wants to parlay off the brand names of south American soccer clubs, so it seems only a matter of time till something happens.

In the meantime, CONCACAF has their work cut out for them in trying to develop pro soccer, and may lead a global revisit to the idea of multi-national leagues. One of Blazer's lackeys was pushing for a Caribbean league and a joint less ague of central America nations. Since the CONCACAF Champions League isn't a huge money maker, the question was would these models yield more profit for the clubs? I think they'll keep exploring this, because CONCACAF lacks the volume of talented nations to add true appeal.

I love the premise of the concacaf champions league, but outside of the USA, Canada, and Mexico, I don't know any of the teams involved.

MLS clubs have already tried their luck in CONMEBOL competition, I believe DC participated in Copa Sudamericana. The problem is travel, it's just way too far.

Yes I remember dc playing in the copa sudamericana. Only time I have ever pulled for them. Their travel log was insane that year.

Worst list ever

I second that. What is that guy smoking? What does he consider to be the best???

I second that. What is that guy smoking? What does he consider to be the best???

More than likely some modern building that's NOT Cowboys Stadium.

Cowboys stadium works. I have been to plenty of games in it, and those who knock it have never been to it.

Cowboys stadium works. I have been to plenty of games in it, and those who knock it have never been to it.

Personally, I think it's just hate. Yankee Stadium and Wrigley are also up there so it's not a list to be taken too seriously.

Still, when a stadium for a small school not known to most of the country in a small, crap town that barely ANYONE says anything about, I think it says a lot about how shitty Blackshear Stadium is. No matter how ridiculous the list is.

Byrd Stadium is #4??? What kind of idiot made this list? I've been there several times and have never felt the kind of disdain I do for FedEX Field. The DC area got hammered on this list. I am surprised they didn't bash the Verizon Center or the Patriot Center too.

Byrd Stadium is #4??? What kind of idiot made this list? I've been there several times and have never felt the kind of disdain I do for FedEX Field. The DC area got hammered on this list. I am surprised they didn't bash the Verizon Center or the Patriot Center too.

Again... Bleacher Report.

Tennessee is my alma mater and I have lived and breathed Big Orange since I could crawl, so I can't help but be a homer about this. Yes, it is entirely necessary to have a facility like this if you want to compete in the SEC. You don't draft your players, you have to make them want to play for you. Have the nicest facilities is key in that. This video is purely propaganda to make 18 year old want to come to Tennessee, so I would expect it to be over the top.

As was stated earlier, this is just a $40 expansion and renovation of the existing facility. I graduated in 2001 and this is the second expansion since then. I used to go to summer camp at Neyland-Thompson and even back in the mid 1990's it was pretty amazing.

They don't mention an academic center in the video because that is in a seperate building next to the track. That is for all the student atheletes though, not just the football players. They also have their own dorm and cafeteria.

UT has amazing facilities for all their sports. The athletes live like kings there.
http://www.utsports.com/facilities/index.html

not really football related, but, still building related. Any more news on that new Student Union type building? That was going to cost a ridiculous amount? Like $165mil or something? all I remember seeing was the announcement, but haven't read anything since.

thank you for sharinghttp://www.collegefun4u.com/track.php?u=4

Not sure it merits a thread of its own but a cool proposal in terms of location and architecture.

http://www.ballparkfansandfriends.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Floating-view-of-stadium.jpg

http://www.ballparkfansandfriends.org/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/53228775@N08/6750488671/in/photostream/

not really football related, but, still building related. Any more news on that new Student Union type building? That was going to cost a ridiculous amount? Like $165mil or something? all I remember seeing was the announcement, but haven't read anything since.

I haven't heard anything about when that is going to start. UT plans projects way in advance so it could be 5-10 years out. They still haven't started the renovation of Civil Engineering building, which was in the planning stages back in 1999.

The price tag for this project probably includes the cost to demo the existing University Center. It's packed in tight against a parking garage, one of the business buildings and one of the main thoroughfares into the central campus. Logistically, that will be a tough project. Despite the fact that Knoxville isn't exactly a big city, the buildings on UT's campus are very tightly packed together. When they built the north tower of Neyland Stadium they had to build a truss over one of the engineering buildings.

http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/21/59ee0aef239e8dab149173c9e5bd1279/l.jpg

Not sure it merits a thread of its own but a cool proposal in terms of location and architecture.

http://www.ballparkfansandfriends.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Floating-view-of-stadium.jpg

http://www.ballparkfansandfriends.org/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/53228775@N08/6750488671/in/photostream/

That's beautiful.

I like the wood-like finish.

Interesting proposal, not sure where they are gonna get the money with the Vikings and Twolves looking for a $billion+ from a broke state. But this looks neat and nicely location right next to the farmers market at the edge of downtown, its the exact same site that the Thunder had been looking at in '08 for an MLS caliber venue. The other site conditions could provide some challanges (freeway and the new shed for the central corridor LRT) but all in all seems like a smart proposal, and not faux red brick thank God.

in context
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7001/6750489753_24f9858474_b.jpg

candlestick park is by far the worse NFL stadium.

candlestick park is by far the worse NFL stadium.

...and soon it's gonna be out of Qualcomm and... what ever the hell they're calling that stadium in Oakland.

The NFL teams that need new stadiums or major renovations the most are as follows

1-4: Chargers, Raiders, Rams, Vikings
5. Bills
6. Falcons
7. Redskins
8. Dolphins

(Miami needs a renovation more so because of their desire to host Super Bowls)

...and soon it's gonna be out of Qualcomm and... what ever the hell they're calling that stadium in Oakland.
The Oakland Coliseum is far worse than Qualcomm by a wide, wide margin. And I'm speaking as a Raider fan who has attended home games since the 70's.

The NFL teams that need new stadiums or major renovations the most are as follows

1-4: Chargers, Raiders, Rams, Vikings
5. Bills
6. Falcons
7. Redskins
8. Dolphins

(Miami needs a renovation more so because of their desire to host Super Bowls)The Falcons shouldn't be on the list. They don't need a new venue, they just want more gameday money, and they could get that through a renovation of the dome and a redo of their deal with the City and GWCC. But as a stadium and in terms of views and general amenities the Georgia Dome is still very good.

By all accounts the Bills should be #7 or 8 as well, with a similar story to the Falcons only their market means there's less demand for the high $ suites and premium seating.

I'll say this, though: If those 8 did get new digs in the next 10-15 years then it's safe to say the NFL would have near perfect venues for all their members, which would be a feat for any league.

its the exact same site that the Thunder had been looking at in '08 for an MLS caliber venue.

Was thinking they should try to get a soccer team involved and make it a combo stadium. Looks like the sort of venue that would attract MLS fans and the city is full of those kinds of people.

^^G-dome doesn't even need a renovation. It was Rennovated in 2006. Rams do not need a new stadium either, but I can understand them wanting a few "keeping up with the Jones'" improvements. The actual list is as such:

1. 49ers
2. Chargers (Tho wouldn't shed a tear if they end up in LA)
3. Vikings
4. Bills
5. Dolphins (Tho they seem to be pushing for a reno, which is fine with me too)

St. Paul would be a great location for an MLS team, though I'm unsure if the franchise would pull the 18-20k idealized. But combination stadiums for baseball and soccer aren't very popular with anyone these days, and MLS is in a position where they can be picky about their membership terms. Accepting that type of a stadium now would be considered a setback among MLS fans and faithful, given the new standard.

The Twin Cities are very entertainment-centric, I would guess in MLS team (particularly if located near a Hispanic center in St Paul or Minneapolis proper) would draw pretty well, I think 12,000-15,000 a game average would be realistic long term with it a bit higher for the first couple seasons.

Back in 2008 Office dA from boston prepared a schematic plan for a lowertown MLS stadium/mixed-use project on the site which was the most thoughtful proposal I have seen for an MLS venue. Since then the Thunder have gone under and reorganized as has Office dA so its as dead as any project could be, which is too bad it was a really wonderful idea.

Here is a link to the project on Nader Tehrani's website (one of the former Office dA principals) for anyone intersted. http://www.nadaaa.com/#/projects/thunder-stadium/

^^G-dome doesn't even need a renovation. It was Rennovated in 2006.

Just because they're on the list doesn't mean they have an old stadium that needs to be renovated. The reason why the Falcons are most certainly on the list is that they need an open air stadium.

Rams do not need a new stadium either

The Rams have one of the worst stadiums and worst atmospheres in the league. It's why they are one of the favorites to move to LA. They play in a convention center annex building that has about as much character as an airplane hanger.

^^G-dome doesn't even need a renovation. It was Rennovated in 2006. Rams do not need a new stadium either, but I can understand them wanting a few "keeping up with the Jones'" improvements. The actual list is as such:

1. 49ers
2. Chargers (Tho wouldn't shed a tear if they end up in LA)
3. Vikings
4. Bills
5. Dolphins (Tho they seem to be pushing for a reno, which is fine with me too)

Replace the 49ers with the Raiders.

The Niners are going through with their new stadium.

The Twin Cities are very entertainment-centric, I would guess in MLS team (particularly if located near a Hispanic center in St Paul or Minneapolis proper) would draw pretty well, I think 12,000-15,000 a game average would be realistic long term with it a bit higher for the first couple seasons.

If 12-15k is the number than there is not a chance in hell that Minnesota gets a MLS team. The five most recent expansion teams are all drawing at least 18k per game and selling out pretty much every game. If they can't sell MLS on being able to draw 18k per game then they won't even be in the discussion.

Rams do not need a new stadium either, but I can understand them wanting a few "keeping up with the Jones'" improvements.

If the Rams don't get a new stadium or gigantic, massive renovations then they are going to move. It's that simple. The Rams can get out of their lease if the stadium isn't in the top quarter of the league and it won't even be close without major changes.

Per the Rams' own agreement, they need a new stadium or a serious renovation.

The Falcons shouldn't be on the list. They don't need a new venue, they just want more gameday money, and they could get that through a renovation of the dome and a redo of their deal with the City and GWCC. But as a stadium and in terms of views and general amenities the Georgia Dome is still very good.

By all accounts the Bills should be #7 or 8 as well, with a similar story to the Falcons only their market means there's less demand for the high $ suites and premium seating.

I'll say this, though: If those 8 did get new digs in the next 10-15 years then it's safe to say the NFL would have near perfect venues for all their members, which would be a feat for any league.

Bills are working on a major upgrade right now. It might be just structural, or it might be a major deal, we don't know here yet.

This is a speculative look at who is in the running for hosting Super Bowl 50 (L), to be played in 2016:
The NFL traditionally awards Super Bowl sites at its May meeting. If the league were to hold true to form for selection of the Super Bowl L host, that would mean bids for 2016 would have to come in by March or April.

Here's a look at top options and their chances of securing the 50th Super Bowl.

Santa Clara, Calif.

Pros: The 49ers' new stadium will open in 2014, the first new football stadium in California since the 1960s. A Super Bowl has traditionally gone to new stadiums, especially in warm weather spots. This pick would also return the game to the Golden State for the first time since the 2003 game in San Diego.

Cons: Not many. The NFL may want to award the game to one of its more-traditional host cities, and a Super Bowl here would also be quite spread out, stretching from San Jose to San Francisco.

Odds: Good

New Orleans

Pros: Will be tied with Miami at 10 after next year for having hosted the most Super Bowls. The NFL may want to recognize one of its best Super Bowl cities with the historic game.

Cons: The game will have just been in New Orleans three years earlier (2013). The league prefers more spacing.

Odds: Good ...


Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-02-13/super-bowl-l-site-by-site-look-at-2016-possibilities#ixzz1mTk93vDE

I think they're going to hold off so they can see what happens with Farmers Field. If it gets the green light then I think they'll want to put the 50th Super Bowl back in LA.

I wish Green Bay had more hotel rooms. A 50th Super Bowl at Lambeau would be pretty cool. First SB champion and the Lombardi Trophy connection. Obviously a pipedream given the size of Green Bay (lack of amenities), it's lack of hotel rooms, small airport, & the cold weather. Current planned expansion will make the stadium the 4th largest in the NFL.

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7406/capturecnk.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/220/capturecnk.jpg/)

And the chances of the stadium in Miami being renovated are?

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7406/capturecnk.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/220/capturecnk.jpg/)

And the chances of the stadium in Miami being renovated are?

Looks low at the moment. They tried to tie funding for it to something else (I think the convention center?), but it got dropped and there doesn't appear to be anything imminent.

Looks low at the moment. They tried to tie funding for it to something else (I think the convention center?), but it got dropped and there doesn't appear to be anything imminent.

What's this? A billionaire owner not willing to stump up the money to pay for the renovation. Ah, only in America.

What's this? A billionaire owner not willing to stump up the money to pay for the renovation. Ah, only in America.I thought he floated almost all the funding for the latest round of renovations that dolled up the suites and such? The angle now being "Any further improvements would be to bring the Super Bowl, erego the city has vested interest to help out."

Not saying I buy it but that's what I thought he was playing.

Seattle sports-arena talks well under way, documents show (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017426859_arena05m.html)

A wealthy San Francisco hedge-fund manager and officials in the Seattle mayor's office have been working behind the scenes for eight months to bring an NBA team back to the city as early as next fall and build a new arena, according to emails and documents that reveal a far more concerted effort than previously known.

A Dec. 13 agenda for a meeting between the parties shows they were talking about details such as a "Review of Basic Deal Structure," "Financing Issues," including "City Debt Capacity," and "Security for Public Financing."

The documents, released Friday to The Seattle Times under a public-disclosure request, also provide the first glimpse of how the largely unknown hedge-fund manager, 44-year-old Seattle native Christopher Hansen, approached the city about his desire to buy an NBA team and build an arena south of Safeco Field.

http://i.imgur.com/ZCrjI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8Dr86.gif

NBA arena backer Chris Hansen to reveal Seattle plan Thursday (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017517805_hansen16m.html)

A much-awaited proposal from Chris Hansen, the wealthy San Francisco mystery man who wants to build a sports arena in Seattle to lure NBA and NHL teams, is slated to be unveiled Thursday by Mayor Mike McGinn, according to sources familiar with the matter.

Hansen plans to privately reveal details of his offer to McGinn, who is expected to hold a news conference without Hansen present to discuss the proposal, said one source with direct knowledge of the talks.

But final arrangements of the news conference were still being worked out Wednesday night, without firm word on whether it will happen, said a City Hall source briefed on the plans.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/New-sports-arena-proposed-for-hosting-NBA-NHL-teams-139470698.html

New sports arena proposal unveiled for NBA, NHL teams
By KOMO Staff Published: Feb 16, 2012 at 1:57 PM PST Last Updated: Feb 16, 2012 at 2:44 PM PST

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King County Executive Dow Constantine (left) and Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn announce the sports arena proposal at a news conference.
SEATTLE - A proposal to build a major new Seattle sports arena with the capacity to host an NBA and NHL team was unveiled Thursday in a news conference.

Mayor Mike McGinn and King County Executive Dow Constantine jointly announced the plan to applause and cheers at an afternoon news conference at Seattle City Hall.

No new taxes would be used to fund the new arena under his plan, and comes at a time when both the NBA and NHL have franchises potentially looking for new homes.

Chris Hansen, hedge fund manager and Seattle native, is behind the proposal, which he has been discussing with city and county officials for several months.

Under the plan, the arena would be located south of Safeco Field in the SoDo stadium district of Seattle. It would have the capacity to host an NBA franchise to replace the Seattle SuperSonics, an NHL pro hockey team, concerts and other large-scale events.

"It would mean that Seattle SuperSonics could play once again in our city," McGinn said.

Added Constantine: "This is a great and optimistic day for our city and our county."

In his proposal, Hansen pledges to raise $290 million in private investment for the facility. In addition, he and his investor group would pay the costs of acquiring an NBA team, for a total commitment of some $500 million.

Hansen also would seek a partner who would recruit an NHL team to the new facility, under the plan.

Any additional costs would be financed by a combination of tax revenues generated by the facility and rental income paid by the teams, according to Hansen's proposal.

"The $200 million investment from the county and city would be repaid (from) revenue that would not otherwise exist," McGinn said.

Constantine and McGinn said any agreement to build a new arena must meet certain criteria, including a requirement that it be self-funding and not rely on new taxes.

Private investors must bear the risk for revenue shortfalls and any cost overruns must be the responsibility of private investors, under the criteria announced by McGinn and Constantine.

"On first look, we have an exciting proposal that, if successful, would mean hundreds of millions of dollars of private investment in our city - an investment that means even more during our city's fragile economic recovery," McGinn said.

But Constantine cautioned that there is much more work to be done before the proposal can become a reality.

"It's not game settled - this is the tipoff of the first game of the preseason," he said. "It's just great to have a chance to get back on the court."

It's not clear which NBA or NHL team would come to Seattle under the proposal.

But many analysts say the most likely NBA franchise would be the Sacramento Kings. That team is in a battle with the city down there to build a new arena - and March 1 is the deadline for a plan.

Please bring back the Sonics!!
If I was the maloofs, I would call Hansen like yesterday and get this deal done...

As long as it doesn't impact the Sounders fan support, I'm okay with this!

As long as it doesn't impact the Sounders fan support, I'm okay with this!

It shouldn't....

This seems like an odd location for an arena. Doesn't Seattle have any better options? I know it's down by the other stadiums, but this is in a low rise industrial and port area. Arenas tend to do very well when they are downtown located around bars and restaurants for before and after the games. I don't see anything like that here. Just north of CenturyLink Field looks rather nice, but this location is a good mile or more away from that area. I know you can basically stick an arena anywhere (just ask any of us who have been to a Senators game in Ottawa) but why do it if you have better options? You would think that Seattle would have learned their lesson with Key Arena.

This seems like an odd location for an arena. Doesn't Seattle have any better options? I know it's down by the other stadiums, but this is in a low rise industrial and port area. Arenas tend to do very well when they are downtown located around bars and restaurants for before and after the games. I don't see anything like that here. Just north of CenturyLink Field looks rather nice, but this location is a good mile or more away from that area. I know you can basically stick an arena anywhere (just ask any of us who have been to a Senators game in Ottawa) but why do it if you have better options? You would think that Seattle would have learned their lesson with Key Arena.

That is by far the best location. All the bars are about a 10 minute walk away. Basically behind Century Link Field in the pic I posted above.

This seems like an odd location for an arena. Doesn't Seattle have any better options? I know it's down by the other stadiums, but this is in a low rise industrial and port area. Arenas tend to do very well when they are downtown located around bars and restaurants for before and after the games. I don't see anything like that here. Just north of CenturyLink Field looks rather nice, but this location is a good mile or more away from that area. I know you can basically stick an arena anywhere (just ask any of us who have been to a Senators game in Ottawa) but why do it if you have better options? You would think that Seattle would have learned their lesson with Key Arena.

Key Arena is in a great spot actually, in an Urban park surrounded by a thriving urban neighborhood with lots of restaurants, bars, and lots of entertainment like the Space Needle, rides, and EMP/Science Fiction Museum. The problem with it was it's small size and lack of suites, it was considered 'unprofitable'.

That is by far the best location. All the bars are about a 10 minute walk away. Basically behind Century Link Field in the pic I posted above.

Key Arena is in a great spot actually, in an Urban park surrounded by a thriving urban neighborhood with lots of restaurants, bars, and lots of entertainment like the Space Needle, rides, and EMP/Science Fiction Museum. The problem with it was it's small size and lack of suites, it was considered 'unprofitable'.

I stand corrected. Go Sonics.

And is thata bad?! To break even!?!
They organized some great olimpics and modernized all athens!!

Damn shame a difference of nearly 7 years between this post and now makes.

Riot police guard Greek assembly as protesters gather (http://news.yahoo.com/greek-cabinet-backs-extra-austerity-measures-012252356.html)

Riot police shielded Greece's national parliament Sunday as demonstrators gathered to protest against austerity measures on the eve of talks in Brussels on a 130-billion-euro ($171 billion) bailout needed to avert bankruptcy. Hopes for a deal at the meeting of euro zone finance ministers have risen after Athens last week detailed new budget cuts. But skeptics, led by Germany, are wary about Greece's determination to shrink its debt mountain. ...

Ok, for those of you who have been to MLB stadiums in the USA & Canada, and also to the Minor League stadiums, which, in your opinion, would you rate as the best and why?

OK, I know this post is around 7 years old but I am not going to rifle through 200 plus pages to see if somebody answered this dude ;)

Oklahoma City AT&T Bricktown Ballpark:

http://www.minorleagueballparks.com/sbrick99.jpg

http://www.baseballpilgrimages.com/AAA/oklahomacity.jpg

http://static.newsok.biz/sites/newsok/images/web/100%20best/ballpark.jpg
http://jesusnsports.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/bricktown-redhawks-baseball-bleachers-1.jpg
http://www.digitalballparks.com/PCL/Bricktown_-_Exterior_Far_784T.jpg

The Old All Sports Stadium:
http://www.mcmas.net/fod/89ers2.jpg

IMHO Best MLB Stadium is a tossup between Target Field and PNC Park. I have only been to one Minor League park (Coca Cola Field, Buffalo), it was once by far the best in minor league ball and better than most major league parks. However there are many many excellent minor league parks now and most major league ones have been replaced.

My favorite minor league park is the one in Reading PA (whatever its current name is), but that's more due to atmosphere. The actual stadium's a dump. Best design that I've been to is in Aberdeen MD, but the general atmosphere is a complete 180 from Reading's.

^^FirstEnergy Stadium.

If anyone hasn't heard this yet....

Speaking of minor league parks and such, you guys should check out the website for the Red Sox new spring training park--JetBlue Park.

jetbluepark.com

WTF? You think that is ugly!! You are sooo wrong!
__________________http://www.businessvideoproduction.info/zhao3.jpghttp://www.businessvideoproduction.info/zhao2.jpghttp://www.businessvideoproduction.info/zhao4.jpg

Renderings of Tulane's proposed on-campus stadium:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Pm41OP0jIvY/Txd7yNvjnYI/AAAAAAAAFbY/gCGCVv2Jiuc/s1600/tulane_stadium_art_night.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7bxWB8_FO4c/Txd84l1GmNI/AAAAAAAAFbg/yjdKCHYDfow/s1600/Party-Deck-Birdseye2.jpg

Proposed Baylor on-campus stadium:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GcwRLbBDlkk/TsvnnboRF2I/AAAAAAAAFS8/_qZbq6jNamo/s1600/baylor.jpg

Expansion plans for Boise State's Bronco Stadium:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ENVM3cJBOXE/TcHyWY6HuuI/AAAAAAAAEmE/vDK8q_E30gk/s1600/1.gif

Why on earth aren't they maintaining the curved geometry of the corners, thats going to look really bad from inside the bowl. Seems like it would make a lot more sense to complete the other end around, lower the field, shift a bit towards the open end and have proper horseshoe with the stands extending down near the field. Maybe this way is cheaper, but it ain't pretty. Too bad that a team so fun too watch couldn't get these expansions executed a bit more cleanly.


I really dig Tulane's proposal though, looks like a great view with great atmopshere in the works if they can get people to show up.

Colisseum after the new expansionhttp://www.youngbin.info/jie2.jpg
http://www.youngbin.info/jie3.jpg
http://www.youngbin.info/jie1.jpg

Can't see anything.... which Colisseum?

Can't see anything.... which Colisseum?

Don't bother, it was a spam message.

Why on earth aren't they maintaining the curved geometry of the corners, thats going to look really bad from inside the bowl. Seems like it would make a lot more sense to complete the other end around, lower the field, shift a bit towards the open end and have proper horseshoe with the stands extending down near the field. Maybe this way is cheaper, but it ain't pretty. Too bad that a team so fun too watch couldn't get these expansions executed a bit more cleanly.Boise did have a plan that would do comparable to what you're proposing, and that the existing second tier would become a complete bowl with new stands placed underneath to make a new complete 1st tier. However, the team now fields they're in a race to get bigger before the next wave of realignments leaves them on the "outside," and the fastest and cheapest way to do that is via an independent structure. Supposedly it will be placed so that the field could be shifted and the existing tiers can someday be rounded off on the other end.

I really dig Tulane's proposal though, looks like a great view with great atmopshere in the works if they can get people to show up. Agreed. I think Tulane football could become quite solid with a proper venue, and that there'd be enough people in the area who like football but don't want to be consumed by LSU that would appreciate the product. Plus, anything that sticks even a tiny craw into the LSU faithful is a good thing in my book. :colgate:

I like all of those.

New turf for Century Link Field in Seattle. It is FieldTurf Revolution and the Seattle Seahawks are going to be the first team in the NFL to use it. It's going to get a lot of use in the next two seasons since the Washington Huskies football team are going to be sharing the stadium with the Seahawks and Sounders while Husky Stadium gets rebuilt.

http://i.imgur.com/CgEEy.jpg

New turf for Century Link Field in Seattle. It is FieldTurf Revolution and the Seattle Seahawks are going to be the first team in the NFL to use it. It's going to get a lot of use in the next two seasons since the Washington Huskies football team are going to be sharing the stadium with the Seahawks and Sounders while Husky Stadium gets rebuilt.

http://i.imgur.com/CgEEy.jpg

.... I had NO idea that Hawks Nest was bench seating.

(learn somethin' new everyday)

.... I had NO idea that Hawks Nest was bench seating.

(learn somethin' new everyday)

That new field looks nice. It is definitely an upgrade. Is it just me or does the Hawk's Nest look rather steep? I would be fine walking up it to a seat, but walking down after a beer or six might be an issue. Anyway, it is a beautiful stadium.

Proposed Baylor on-campus stadium:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GcwRLbBDlkk/TsvnnboRF2I/AAAAAAAAFS8/_qZbq6jNamo/s1600/baylor.jpg

What's with the euro-roof design?

Wealthy Baylor alums are above getting sunburn?

What's with the euro-roof design?

I highly doubt that roof stays on. This isn't the final design....

That Baylor rendering looks amazing. Nice and open and the roof should allow some nice covering and amplify the crowd noise.

I highly doubt that roof stays on.



Think think it might blow away in high winds :lol:

-Sorry just had to make a joke.

Expansion plans for Boise State's Bronco Stadium:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ENVM3cJBOXE/TcHyWY6HuuI/AAAAAAAAEmE/vDK8q_E30gk/s1600/1.gif


bah, just tear it down already and start anew. they can keep the blue turf but that stadium looks terrible.

Because Boise totally has $250 million laying around for a new stadium.......

... what with those huge WAC payouts and all!

bah, just tear it down already and start anew. they can keep the blue turf but that stadium looks terrible.

There's a guy I know who said that this actually looks better than TCU's renovation....

:ohno:

It fits what Boise needs. Calm down.

It fits what Boise needs. Calm down.

I just think Boise should do better than to just add on to what it has.

If you look at it from other angles, the stadium just seems... off. I just see more potential there than this.

What's with the euro-roof design?

Its not the actual design just a concept.

I just think Boise should do better than to just add on to what it has.


That is what 95% of schools have done to their stadiums over the years. That is what makes college football stadiums unique. I am sure the Minnesota fans love their brand new stadium, but I would much rather has a renovated stadium with character and familiarity.

That is what 95% of schools have done to their stadiums over the years. That is what makes college football stadiums unique. I am sure the Minnesota fans love their brand new stadium, but I would much rather has a renovated stadium with character and familiarity.

I know this. But it's just the endzones that I have a problem with (could care less what color the turf is, btw). At least fix those corners, ya know?

Oh, and renovating/expanding isn't exactly unique to just college football. *prepare for Euro Football Fan imput*

That is what 95% of schools have done to their stadiums over the years. That is what makes college football stadiums unique. I am sure the Minnesota fans love their brand new stadium, but I would much rather has a renovated stadium with character and familiarity.

We do, many would prefer a history where we renovated the Brick House instead of tearing it down in the late '80s, but all in all the Bank suits the program pretty ideally (now if only we could put a team on the field that matches up to the level of the stadium).

Door swings both ways. Newer stadiums can include all the bells and whistles cherished by recruits and big donors, to say nothing of concourses capable of all the space for eateries, sufficient bathrooms, etc. And sometimes the costs for an expansion can outweight the benefits. Or the outcome.

http://www.worldstadia.com/data/images/f/l/flvn040323152245.jpg
www.worldstadia.com (http://www.worldstadia.com/stadium/usa/bobby_dodd_stadium/172.php)

bah, just tear it down already and start anew. they can keep the blue turf but that stadium looks terrible.
A new stadium would probably cost more than BSU's entire academic endowment.

We're talking about a really, really poor school here.

I know this. But it's just the endzones that I have a problem with (could care less what color the turf is, btw). At least fix those corners, ya know?

Oh, and renovating/expanding isn't exactly unique to just college football. *prepare for Euro Football Fan imput*
they're supposed to be enclosing the end zone opposite of the new expansion:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j314/jaret96/4c785e64b7e18image.jpg

those corner seats in the upper deck (curved side) have got to be obstructed views....

WTF? You think that is ugly!! You are sooo wrong!


Talking to me?

Not sure why my little local college is building a 3,000 seat arena, but I'm not complaining. Will be finished later this summer, just got a naming deal.

BEL AIR, Md. - Harford Community College announced today that the Susquehanna Center arena currently under construction has been named the APG Federal Credit Union Arena at Harford Community College. When completed, it will be the largest indoor venue in Northeastern Maryland, accommodating 3,200 guests.



http://o5.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/PATCH/resize/600x450/http://hss-prod.hss.aol.com/hss/storage/patch/b760c97f60b59d439b7b08df4f96d181

Not sure why my little local college is building a 3,000 seat arena, but I'm not complaining. Will be finished later this summer, just got a naming deal.

I'm guessing that it might have to do with needing the space for graduations, job fairs, and other events other than sports?

Yes, and that's definitely in their reasoning. But it seems bizarre that they're going from basically an old high school gym where basketball games drew 100 people to this giant thing; didn't think it would have quite so many permanent seats.

Door swings both ways. Newer stadiums can include all the bells and whistles cherished by recruits and big donors, to say nothing of concourses capable of all the space for eateries, sufficient bathrooms, etc. And sometimes the costs for an expansion can outweight the benefits. Or the outcome.

http://www.worldstadia.com/data/images/f/l/flvn040323152245.jpg
www.worldstadia.com (http://www.worldstadia.com/stadium/usa/bobby_dodd_stadium/172.php)

I have still never seen anything on why Georgia Tech added that odd looking overhang in the endzone. Any insight, Jacket?

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/001/552/695/126305736_crop_650x440.jpg?1328045109

The budget couldn't allow for relocating or renovating the building you see in that corner of the stadium. So, in simplest terms they essentially raised that section of the bottom tier up to the second one so as to account for a roof line of the adjoining building.

So you might ask "Why didn't they just make the whole second tier come down to that level?" Because the rest of the stands feature a row of suites between the tiers, and due to design considerations for incorporating those suites with the rest of the stadium, they weren't going to work at a lower height. And Tech did legitimately need more premium seating.

Tech could've held out on the second tier all together and ended up with a structure somewhere in the 46k capacity range, but they were told that in order to justify the construction loans they needed to show a significant increase in capacity and they were at 45k before. Alas, the fund raising went slower than hoped and the design was ultimately done on the cheap - A compromise in trying to maximize capacity with little regard to overall calibre of the structure.

I really, really wish they'd overspent on making a lower second tier that matched that on the east stands shown in your picture, looking something like BC's Alumni Stadium. Tech could've filled in the corners later and possibly add at the south stand eventually as the office space is moved. It'd be smaller but infinitely more charming and filled more often. But Tech's alumni notoriously give mostly to the school and less so the athletic dept., which has made great strides but is so constrained for land and managing older buildings. (This is the oldest on-campus venue in 1A)

Put simply, it's an example of architecture done without any art or craft. It functions, but it doesn't inspire. And in this instance I don't blame the architects, as they were simply following orders.

I have still never seen anything on why Georgia Tech added that odd looking overhang in the endzone. Any insight, Jacket?

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/001/552/695/126305736_crop_650x440.jpg?1328045109

Put a roof on that crazy thing at it would be at home in the EPL

Put a roof on that crazy thing at it would be at home in the EPL

yeah but do like that skyline :cheers:

Put a roof on that crazy thing at it would be at home in the EPL

It'd still be nicer than anything in Buffalo.

It'd still be nicer than anything in Buffalo.

Uncalled for.

I have still never seen anything on why Georgia Tech added that odd looking overhang in the endzone. Any insight, Jacket?

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/images/photos/001/552/695/126305736_crop_650x440.jpg?1328045109

seriously: what is wrong with it? looks in a way unique.

seriously: what is wrong with it? looks in a way unique.

Who said there was anything wrong with it? One person called it odd, I called it crazy, doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it.

:) i would like to call it funny, then.

seriously: what is wrong with it? looks in a way unique.As an afficianado of historic soccer stadiums in Europe I can appreciate the asymmetry, as well as the idea of working with a budget. As a GT grad and fan, however, what is "wrong" about it reads thus:

- The budgetary constraints shortchanged many design elements that are now coming back to haunt the Institute. Amenities and space along the renovated east stands (sidelines facing the camera above) and even within the new north stands are already considered inadequate, to say nothing of lacking character. Very bare bones, and already being redressed for one utility upgrade and to remodel concession areas. You can see one shot of the exterior here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/roundamerica/3068212651/, and the Techwood drive side is, IMO, even more tacky.

- The design also restricts future expansion and/or renovation, even if the Edge building is someday removed from that corner. Rounding that end to match the other side and marry-up with the east stand's upper deck would require tearing away part of the new north stand. In other words, any hope of modifying the structure would be more costly than needed.

- The particular shape of the new upper-north tier and the configuration of the overhang has a killing effect on the noise. Sitting in that stand you have difficulty even hearing the band... which is in the lower tier just below you! Tech fans generally avoid this area because of it. We're told material changes and framing design of the stand plays a part, and know that the architects did away with all the top-shelf features usually employed in stadiums these days.

- The main reason the costs for the expansion were so restricted was because much of the total project funds went to renovating the east stands to improve ADA accommodations. This was necessary because they refuse to touch the west stands for fear of the huge costs in bringing that historic structure into full ADA compliance. As a result there's little harmony between all the stadiums components, and the concessions for the west stands remain sad.

- GT, sadly, didn't need 55k. That was a target level used by a previous coach (O'Leary) in his contract negotiation demands. 50k would be near perfect since it's a comparably small school and so seeing so many empty seats has been a real morale killer. Considering almost all of this was funded through loans, it suggests they shouldn't settled on a smaller product for less overall money, as the return for seldom used seats can't be that high.

It's not butt ugly, and like I said it works in the simplest sense. But considering the pedigree of the program and the designs being realized at places like TCU, Miss St, etc, GT deserves much better. I'd rather they have an architectural gem that's highly undersized than simply a glorified high school stadium.

they're supposed to be enclosing the end zone opposite of the new expansion:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j314/jaret96/4c785e64b7e18image.jpg

the addition in the endzone(bottom of the pic) is so out of place and ruins the whole flow of the stadium. I know it's been a concern of some that this new addition will ruin the view of the skyline/mtns for the rest of the stadium. Whether that's worth protecting or not is completely debatable, but, I know I definitely don't like this concept. I feel they can do better. They still haven't removed the track and lowered the field yet which as far as I know is the first thing that will be done. This whole additional endzone is several years away. Probably several from even being started. Although, Boise decides to start things at odd times. I mean, who removes giant sections of sidewalk in the middle of a semester? Oh well.

of the smaller stadiums are from the NFLhttp://www.youngbin.info/jie2.jpg
http://www.youngbin.info/jie3.jpg
http://www.youngbin.info/jie1.jpg

Her's a story about Las Vegas making an exact replica of the Nurburgring (http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1074010_nurburgring-race-track-may-get-las-vegas-twin).

Her's a story about Las Vegas making an exact replica of the Nurburgring (http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1074010_nurburgring-race-track-may-get-las-vegas-twin).

Its time to add that one to my bucket list. Wow, that is going to be fun.

For those of you who don't know where DePaul is it is in Chicagos near north side in its Lincoln Park neighborhood.

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/sports/fox-chicago-exclusive-depaul-to-build-new-arena-on-fullerton-and-sheffield-20120327

DePaul University Plans to Build New Basketball Arena on Fullerton and Sheffield: Exclusive

Plan pending trustee approval

Updated: Wednesday, 28 Mar 2012, 2:48 PM CDT

By Joanie Lum, FOX Chicago News

Chicago - It's long been a desire of students and alumni to be able to attend basketball games near the campus.

FOX Chicago's Lou Canellis reports that the preferred location is Fullerton and Sheffield, where DePaul already has a parking lot.

That corner is steps away from the CTA Fullerton stop on the edge of campus. If it happens, would mean the influx of 10,000-12,000 fans coming to the neighborhood to attend a Blue Demons basketball game, in what already is considered a congested area..........

There were rumors about other locations: the Finkl Steel plant on Cortland and the Morton Salt Company on Elston.

The university did not have a comment about specific locations. But DePaul did send out a statement:

"A proposal to explore opportunities that address this... is among many ideas on a wide range of issues that are part of the current draft of the university's next long-range strategic plan. The strategic plan is pending trustee approval. The university has a great relationship with Allstate Arena, where the men's program has played the last 32 seasons and we most recently hosted the women's NCAA 1st and 2nd rounds this season."

The contract with Allstate Arena ends in 2015.

Its time to add that one to my bucket list. Wow, that is going to be fun.

Having been to the real one twice, I'm prepared to be underwhelmed.

Developer pitching downtown waterfront arena, convention center

http://media.king5.com/images/waterfrontarena.jpg

At this point strickly a concept but rumblings in city to move forward with a new arena have been louder than ever so we will see what occurs in time:

Credit:

KING 5 News
Developer pitching downtown waterfront arena, convention center
by CHRIS DANIELS / KING 5 News
Bio (http://www.king5.com/on-tv/bios/69330027.html) | Email (cdaniels@king5.com)| Follow: @ChrisDaniels5 (http://twitter.com/ChrisDaniels5) KING5.com
Posted on March 29, 2012 at 10:31 PM
Updated Friday, Mar 30 at 4:58 PM

SEATTLE - John Torrance can rattle off the numbers with the best of them.
He can quote how many people are in the Seattle-metro area, the size of the convention center, or the city’s rank in the TV markets all off the top of his head.

But nowadays, he seemed focused on one number: 46. As in Pier 46.

Torrance, a Vice President at CB Richard Ellis, is pitching building an arena/convention center/ferry terminal on the Pier. He’s not the first person to do that. Back in 2008, former Sonic “Downtown” Freddie Brown was talking about building an “Emerald City Center” there to host an NBA and NHL team.

Torrance claims, he’s been working on this for two years, and is finally ready to go public. He’s released a series of architechtural drawings, which he believes could drum up support to build the complex, currently leased to Hanjin shipping.

“It fills two big needs,” he says by phone. “It’s a perfect spot.”

But unlike Chris Hansen, down the street, Torrance doesn’t own the land. He also doesn’t have the backing of big money investors, yet.

There is also another issue. The land is not for sale.

Peter McGraw, spokesperson for the Port, called the idea a “non-starter”. “We have no plans to make plans,” said McGraw. “We’d like Hanjin to be here for a long time.”

Brian Robinson, who founded Arena Solution, and has been an advocate for the Hansen proposal and efforts in Bellevue, says other proposals are further along. “The proposed development of Pier 46 is conceptual in nature. It currently lacks the support of key government officials and a committed ownership group willing to bring the NBA or NHL to any arena that could be put there. Until these components are identified there is a real risk that it will distract officials from the more viable project.”

Torrance seems undeterred, and says he’s still working with national developers on the project, and hopes to reveal more soon

An NBA/NHL arena, convention center, and ferry dock all in one.

Thought I've seen everything.

Some of that design look like the Baltimore Arena design.

An NBA/NHL arena, convention center, and ferry dock all in one.

Thought I've seen everything.

Actually, the proposal is well thought after. You are keeping the maritime powers happy, by allowing ship/transit open in an already tight shipping area of Elliot bay with the transformation of a cargo staging area. You are opening up new convention space and arena space in a city that lacks property space for an arena keeping it in a stones throw of a heavly populated sports entertainment area. With the tranformation of the waterfront slowly underway with the removal of the viaduct, it is an attractive offer plus It certainly beats moving the arena to the burbs.

Actually, the proposal is well thought after. You are keeping the maritime powers happy, by allowing ship/transit open in an already tight shipping area of Elliot bay with the transformation of a cargo staging area. You are opening up new convention space and arena space in a city that lacks property space for an arena keeping it in a stones throw of a heavly populated sports entertainment area. With the tranformation of the waterfront slowly underway with the removal of the viaduct, it is an attractive offer plus It certainly beats moving the arena to the burbs.

Don't see how this makes it any more open for shipping. You're just kindof moving the ferry dock closer to the cargo shipping docks.

Don't forget the fact too that they're proposing building this on top of a still heavily used container staging area. The port would have to agree to selling that first and then find a way to recoup the lost capacity. Not to mention now you have Ferrys and Cruise ships constantly crossing your paths now instead of other cargo ships.

When referring to “opening shipping” the reference was meant by opening adequate facilities to hosting cruise ships. Currently with the increasing cruise ship industry Seattle’s facilities are less then subpar so one would have to look at this as an opportunity to increase the standards. Currently the Port of Seattle is earning roughly 4.6 million dollars from Hanjin a year on what is already a back and forth leasing fiscal with this space threatening more and more to shift more towards Tacoma/South Puget Sound, so how much revenue can be produced with an actual competitive arena, convention facility, an NBA franchise/NHL franchise and a more attactive cruise ship area?

I am all about how Seattle was developed but, I also like the out with the old in with the new standards with the waterfront revitalizing an all together better more attractive shoreline for the people. I feel it is an opportunity to still have shipping and revenue but at the same time, increasing tourism, the potential revenue with an NBA/NHL relocation and boosting convention intake which all will create jobs as well in replacement of Hanjin.
It’s obvious that there will be red-tape and controversy along the way and maybe chances are slim however, I envision it as the investors do as a shift in the right direction if it plays out as planned. Overall our arena revenue sucks and is hardly where it should be as business is shifted to either an outdated Tacoma Dome, or a more updated facilities in Spokane/Portland with the newer state of the art facilities there.

M's against arena in neighborhood (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7772551/seattle-mariners-say-nba-arena-neighborhood-work)

SEATTLE -- For now, the Seattle Mariners believe a proposal to build a new NBA/NHL arena in Seattle needs to find a different home.

The Mariners sent a formal letter to the city of Seattle and King County officials Tuesday opposing the idea of a new multipurpose arena in the same neighborhood as the Mariners' home of Safeco Field.

The letter, signed by Mariners chairman Howard Lincoln, cited concerns about traffic and scheduling of events taking place in an area that already features Safeco Field and CenturyLink Field -- the home to the Seattle Seahawks and Sounders.

In the letter, obtained by KJR-AM and later by The Associated Press, Lincoln says the franchise supports the idea of the NBA returning to Seattle, but that an exhaustive examination of various sites for a new arena in the greater Seattle area needs to be conducted.

"The proposed SODO location, in our view, simply does not work," Lincoln wrote. "It would bring scheduling, traffic and parking challenges that would likely require hundreds of millions of dollars to mitigate. We doubt that an arena could succeed financially at this location, given mitigation costs and necessary scheduling limitations. Without highly restrictive scheduling limitations, traffic gridlock would put all of the area's teams at risk."

The Mariners are the first and largest local organization to express its desire for Christopher Hansen to look at other site options for his proposed arena. Hansen, a wealthy San Francisco venture capitalist and Seattle native, owns land adjacent to the Mariners' parking garage and has proposed a new arena that would cost between $450 million and $500 million and would include $290 million in private investment. Hansen's group also would be responsible for the purchase of an NBA franchise and finding a partner interested in bringing an NHL franchise to Seattle.

The public financing component of the proposal would be capped at $200 million, and paid back through taxes and rent collected on the tenants of a gleaming new building. An arena review panel created by Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn and King County executive Dow Constantine is expected to give its recommendation about Hansen's proposal Wednesday.

In his letter, Lincoln says the Mariners are completely in favor of the NBA returning to the region following the departure of the SuperSonics for Oklahoma City following the 2008 season.

Lincoln suggested suburbs of Renton and Bellevue, along with Seattle neighborhoods of South Lake Union and Seattle Center -- where KeyArena sits -- should be looked at for a new facility. The Mariners cited the decision on where Safeco Field sits, saying that site was settled on after a year of public conversation.

"Regardless of which site is ultimately chosen, this needs to be a thoughtful public process that balances the preference of one investor with all of the region's important commercial, transportation and maritime interests, as well as the long-term interests of the region's fans," Lincoln wrote.

Later Tuesday, the Port of Seattle released a letter it sent to the arena advisory committee expressing its concerns over traffic in the area of the proposed venue and supporting the idea of looking at alternate sites.

Lincoln later wrote that should an extensive evaluation determine the neighboring site is best for a new arena, the Mariners will work with the city and Hansen's group to mitigate as many issues as possible. McGinn later issued a statement saying the issues the Mariners raised about transportation would be raised in the environmental review process.

"This is a Seattle-specific proposal to locate an arena in Seattle's stadium district, which was created for stadiums after an extensive process of review," McGinn said. "As mayor, I will work to address the Mariner's concerns, as I continue working with King County and Chris Hansen to bring an NBA and NHL team to Seattle."

Surprise surprise... Nintendo is not in favor of an arena on leased Hanjin space. As if one could not see that comming as far as the M's protecting the interest.. they should be more worried about re-bulding a franshise then the development of another. I remember hearing rumblings of the same traffic congestion with the building of SAFECO.. Hello people you want to grow like a real city, lets utilize mass transit more effectivly then.. ha ha.. I cring at the thought of this stadium moving to SUBURB Bellevue or Renton yuck... Thunderbirds moving to The Showare Center in Kent was bad enough, a new arena especially in E. Suburb land would really kill Kent's arena..

Mariners might rue the day they interfered with proposed Sodo arena

Mariners are asking for a public-relations nightmare by opposing Chris Hansen's arena proposal, even if some of their concerns are valid.






By Jerry Brewer

Seattle Times staff columnist



Related

Latest arena developments




Jerry, you nailed it "The Mariners sound like stingy, grumpy old men yelling for H... (April 4, 2012, by Emeralddeacon) MORE



Funny. Not sure anything can be more of a congestion mess than mercer street during... (April 4, 2012, by yerkdawg) MORE












Rue the day.

Mariners president Chuck Armstrong exhumed that ancient cliché Wednesday as he spoke to several media outlets while attempting to do the impossible: explain why the local baseball team has a beef with Chris Hansen's proposal to build an NBA/NHL arena in its backyard.

"Our view is that Hansen, if he built it in that location, he would rue the day he did it," Armstrong told me, repeating a line he used on 97.3 KIRO-FM earlier in the day.

Why? Because of traffic.

Yeah, traffic.

Though the Mariners raise valid concerns, it comes across as silly, maybe even petty, to listen to a sports franchise with a publicly funded stadium complain this much about another project. The Port of Seattle, which is concerned about protecting billions of dollars in maritime business revenue, has a legitimate gripe, and it expressed its view strongly in a letter to the city's Arena Advisory Panel earlier this week. The Mariners followed Tuesday with their own letter to civic leaders, which officially outs them as major opposition.

The Mariners say they are all for the NBA and NHL coming to Seattle, but not in their 'hood. They don't want the congested Sodo area to become unbearable. They're worried about hindering their "fan experience," and because they haven't been to the playoffs since 2001, they know a lot about hindering a fan experience. They're using words such as "ingress" and "egress" to give their argument some sophistication.

Look at it objectively. They have a point. Problem is, it's a molehill issue that isn't worth it for them. The Mariners sound like stingy, grumpy old men yelling for Hansen to get off their lawn. Even worse, they risk alienating far more fans than they already have during this decadelong dry spell.

Because of traffic.

"The proposed Sodo location, in our view, simply does not work," Mariners chairman and chief executive officer Howard Lincoln wrote in the letter. "It would bring scheduling, traffic and parking challenges that would likely require hundreds of millions of dollars to mitigate."

The Mariners are calling for a well-thought process, which is a reasonable request. It's what Hansen wants, too. They can work together, and if the Mariners want to get rid of the perception that they're being selfish, they will have to be cooperative moving forward.

Adding a sports/entertainment arena that would seek to have 200 events a year would be a problem if nothing is done to alleviate traffic and parking issues. Everyone gets that. The Mariners don't need to bark about it. It's understood. The Arena Advisory Panel already has noted it.

The Mariners must recognize the big picture: Losing the Sonics four years ago caused irreparable damage to the city's sports morale. Bringing them back, along with the NHL, isn't just a nice wish. It's a must to reinvent Seattle's sports culture and infuse the region with a fresh spirit and hope.

Hansen doesn't just have an idea. He has offered the best arena plan the city may ever see. His group has pledged $290 million toward the project, and the rest of the financing is clever and unobtrusive for the average citizen. If the Mariners remain objectors and Hansen's project fails, many fans will never forgive them.

Because of traffic.

Worth it?

"That's an excellent question," Armstrong said. "In the sports business, perception oftentimes becomes reality. Yeah, there's a risk. But suppose we just say, 'Yeah, we support it,' and four or five years from now that area becomes a total quagmire because we didn't speak up? It's a difficult line to draw, but people need to know what our concerns are. Let's have a process and discuss them."

Asked a pointed question about the Mariners being afraid of competition, Armstrong said, "That's just wrong." Asked if the team is conspiring with the Port of Seattle to ruin Hansen's proposal, Armstrong said, "We're not in cahoots with the Port." Asked about the Mariners' financial contribution to a polling of local residents that seems both anti-arena and deviously deceptive, with questions such as whether they would support a sports arena over public schools (which is as far from the issue as it gets), Armstrong said, "I have not seen any of the questions."

The Mariners have been in the sports business long enough to know they can't be the good and bad guy. Their take is nuanced, but they will be looked upon as an enemy of Hansen, an enemy of the Sonics revival and an enemy of the hope that many local sports fans have right now.

Is that an overstated mischaracterization? Probably. Remember, the Mariners hosted an incredible, first-class Sonics Night last season. But are overstated mischaracterizations common in our black-and-white sports world? Absolutely.

The Mariners are engaging in a fight they can't win. Did you notice that their Sodo pals, the Seahawks and Sounders FC, have been savvy enough to take the high road? If the NBA and NHL come to Sodo, it'll now be considered a middle finger to the Mariners. If they don't come, the Mariners may have even fewer traffic worries than they do now because some casual fans will boycott them.

Irrational sports fans aren't the only ones shaking their heads. During an interview on Sports Radio KJR on Wednesday, City Councilmember Bruce Harrell didn't sound too happy with Lincoln's letter, either.

"I was disappointed in the substance and tone," Harrell said. "Many of the issues they raise are non-issues."

The Mariners say they're open to collaborating with Hansen on a resolution, and such cooperation needs to happen as soon as possible to alter their public image.

Otherwise, their days will be filled with the most rue.

Jerry Brewer: 206-464-2277 or jbrewer@seattletimes.com. On Twitter @Jerry_Brewer.

I'm fine with it in SODO, just not on the waterfront.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/04/05/3150906/city-staff-recommends-giving-9.html

That's about a potential Uptown baseball stadium in Charlotte for our AAA team, the Knights. They currently play across the state line in Fort Mill, South Carolina where they've been since the 80's, before that they played at Crockett Park (named for the wrestling promoter) in Charlotte.

Knights Castle in Fort Mill isn't *that* far away, but people think it is. Plus there isn't much to do in Fort Mill (I don't actually mind Fort Mill, it's alright). This would be good, people could get to games via public transit this way (which is good because they drink) and it's centrally located so you don't have to use the interstate. I hate the interstate.

A shade roof would be nice because it gets real hot, but it's fine without one.

Developer pitching downtown waterfront arena, convention center

http://media.king5.com/images/waterfrontarena.jpg



No renderings of Hansen's proposed arena near the Safeco Field garage?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-united-center-development-chicago-bulls-blackhawks,0,6636341.story

Report: New development in works next to United Center

2:44 p.m. CDT, April 28, 2012
Crain's Chicago Business reports: Chicago Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf and Chicago Blackhawks owner Rocky Wirtz are working to put together a privately funded $75-$85 million development on a parking lot east of United Center.

The 260,000-square-foot development, which could include restaurancts, bars, a team store, event space and team offices, would connect with the stadium's east side via an atrium-like entrance.

..via spyguy @ SSP

Even though the Bulls might be done for the playoffs (let's hope not), at least Reinsdorf is finally set to take advantage of the excitement surrounding the Hawks/Bulls. LA Live Lite.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20120428/ISSUE01/304289963/united-center-plans-retail-space

United Center plans retail space
By Ryan Ori and Micah Maidenberg

Not far from the Michael Jordan statue, the United Center's owners hope a $75 million to $85 million retail development soon will take flight.
Chicago Bulls owner Jerry Reinsdorf is leading a venture that plans to build 260,000 square feet of restaurants, bars, a team store and event space in the sprawling parking lot east of the arena, according to documents obtained by Crain's. Chicago Blackhawks owner Rocky Wirtz would be part of the venture, which could include team offices, parking, a terrace and a green roof..........
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2143/ar304289963.jpg