"Holy Shit" indeed.:omg:

Originally posted by CG5: As much as I'd like to say "I'll believe it when I see it," I can't help but wet my pants when I read something like that.

Amazing...a week of inactivity and then all of THIS! Amazing.

I'll say it then--and remain in full control of my bladder.

I'll believe it when I see it.

It appears to be a serious proposal, but I have my doubts. We certainly will not see 14 towers going upat the same time--if they go up at all, it will be spread out over a couple of decades.

I find it odd that the developer went ahead with proposing this and hadn't contacted the City about it at all. With such a large scale, big-news type development, you'd think they would have released some drawings of their plans, but none of the articles I read have had any. The developer also seems to be overly-optimistic in thinking that they'll start developing the site by the end of the year (even if it's just one tower to begin with, and even if the environmental contamination is relatively easy to clean up).

There's a great exhibit at the UW-Milwaukee School of Architecture and Urban Planning showcasing many of Milwaukee's buildings that were demolished in the 1960s, 70s, and 80s--ranging from residential mansions to railroad stations, to the Pabst Building. There are aerial photos of Downtown up the wazoo, plus a column capitol (decorative element that sat at the top of a column, for you non-archies out there) on display from the old Chicago and Northwestern depot. Whitney Gould's latest column (the newspaper kind, not the building kind) covers the details and location of the exhibit (MSPtoMKE can disregard the location stuff):

For those who mourn landmarks, photo show is 3-hankie affair (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/apr03/131645.asp)

Come see the exhibit if you can.

And in other news, ground will break this week for the Kern Center--the Milwaukee School of Engineering's new recreation facility:

MSOE building moving in as spur's dust settles: Health and recreation center's design sets tone for area, officials say (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/apr03/131812.asp)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/apr03/kern040703.jpg

It all sounds great to me, even though i'm a little late in posting, tee hee. i'll try to be more on the ball next time!

A nice boost for downtown Milwaukee...
http://www.biztimes.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=homepage.breakingNews&URLbreakingNewsID=55

Yeah good news but doesn't that new building look too small for 550 employees? They're not the only tennents either.

LOL, I say add another 5 floors to the building!

You're right about the building being small. The last place I worked with that many people was basically 6 floors with a much larger footprint than what will fit in DT Milwaukee.

I like the prospect of these people working dowtown because it will increase demand for food, retail, hotel, and residence.

if anyone wants to see my 3 new milwaukee photo threads-

riverwest (http://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=28252)

3rd ward (http://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=28482)

bay view (http://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=28130)

my first attempt at a pano-

http://www.cyburbia.org/gallery/data/500/1137milwaukee_pano.jpg

hope you like!

Great job :applause:

yeah for panos!!!:D

Foley & Lardner ponders move to new downtown tower
By Steve Jagler, of SBT

The Foley & Lardner law firm is considering moving its headquarters across downtown Milwaukee to a new office tower
that is being proposed at the current site of the Marcus Center for the Performing Arts parking garage.

Real estate sources said Foley & Lardner has agreed in principle to relocate to the proposed new building, which is being
planned for the northwest corner at the intersection of Water and State streets.
However, Nancy Sennett, managing partner of Foley & Lardner's Milwaukee office, denied that an agreement had been
reached. Sennett said the law firm likely will not make a decision until this summer on whether it will remain in the US
Bank Center or move to another location.

Sennett confirmed that Foley & Lardner had requested a proposal from the developers of the proposed new office tower.
She estimated that Foley & Lardner had made seven requests for proposals, all of which were for sites in downtown
Milwaukee.

"We are in the process of exploring all of our options," Sennett said. "The renewal of our lease is being considered. We
need to renew or relocate, probably downtown, and one of the alternatives is that building (at the Marcus Center)."

Jackie Walsh, a principal at Irgens Development Partners LLC, which is recruiting tenants for the proposed building, said,
"We did respond to a request for proposal from Foley," Walsh said. "We are of the understanding that they are
considering it as an alternative. We've got an offer on the table.

"But we have responded to many (RFPs). We don't get too excited until that lease is signed, and we don't have anything
in writing," Walsh said. Walsh said Irgens and the Marcus Center continue to "test the market" to determine the feasibility
of the new tower. The proposed new building has been tentatively named the Ovation Center, Walsh said.

Small Business Times first reported in January that the new tower was being proposed for the site. At that time, Walsh
said a commitment from a significant anchor tenant would be needed to launch the project. Foley & Lardner would be
such a tenant. The law firm's lease for 232,000 square feet at the US Bank Center, 777 E. Wisconsin Ave., will expire in
February 2005, Sennett said.

With its new lease, the law firm will be seeking a comparable amount of space, she said.

Keeping Foley & Lardner's headquarters in Milwaukee would be a coup for the downtown, as top officials of the law
firm previously said the company could consider relocating to Chicago, sources said. Foley & Lardner does not plan to
move its headquarters out of downtown Milwaukee, Sennett said. The company maintains significant offices in 16 US
cities, including Chicago, she said.

As proposed, the $100 million Ovation Center would span 22 stories and would be connected to the Marcus Center at
929 N. Water St. by a skywalk over State Street. The Ovation Center would include a mixed use of offices, retail,
housing and parking, Walsh said. The Marcus Center's board of directors believes the current parking structure is not the
best use of the property, which is located in the Water Street entertainment district, Walsh said.

Irgens has had discussions with several smaller firms interested in relocating to the Ovation Center, but those commitments
will not be sought until an anchor tenant is signed, Walsh said.

April 22, 2003, Small Business Times

The developers of PabstCity are close to landing their first major entertainment venue for redeveloping the former Pabst Brewery--a House of Blues.

http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2003/04/21/daily29.html

Hey, almost forgot. Congrats to Wale Adadoken aka Brewcity on becoming Homestead's prom king for 2003! Nice job man! Who you going with again? Kerrie I heard, but I'm not sure.

After sitting vacant for several years, the massive Teweles Seed Company Building in Walker's Point will finally be converted into residential units (and many of them will be marketed as affordable housing units).

Apartments to fill ex-seed building: Walker's Point development planned to open by spring 2004 (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/apr03/136060.asp)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/apr03/seedbig042403.jpg

It's like a cult in here! ;)

This thread rules! :okay:

<table cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=98% class="quoteBox">
<td align=left valign=center> <smallfont> <b>Quote</B> <I>originally posted by Rainier Meadows </i></b> </smallfont> </td>
<tr><td align=left valign=top>It's like a cult in here! ;)

This thread rules! :okay:</td></tr>
</table>
Milwaukee is good,
Milwaukee is great!
We surrender our will,
As of this date!
[repeat]

Join us, Rainier! It's BLISS!!! :clown: ;)

Great news for Walker's Point, and the Pabst site as well.

MSPtoMKe - what's this "to SEA soon enough" business going on in your title line??

It means he's moving to Seattle for the summer, back with his parents, who recently moved there from MSP.

This thread is awesome. I only wish Detroit could hold a candle to the development Milwaukee is seeing! It's great to see things about a city I know little about.

BTW, cubercle..... awesome pano!

<table cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=98% class="quoteBox">
<td align=left valign=center> <smallfont> <b>Quote</B> <I>originally posted by Markitect </i></b> </smallfont> </td>
<tr><td align=left valign=top>It means he's moving to Seattle for the summer, back with his parents, who recently moved there from MSP.</td></tr>
</table>
Yep, that pretty much sums it up. :)

You ought to just stay here and save the hassle of moving back and forth every spring/fall.

<table cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=98% class="quoteBox">
<td align=left valign=center> <smallfont> <b>Quote</B> <I>originally posted by Markitect </i></b> </smallfont> </td>
<tr><td align=left valign=top>You ought to just stay here and save the hassle of moving back and forth every spring/fall.</td></tr>
</table>
Yep, i see that as a definate possibility for next summer, to stay here or stay in the Twin Cites. However, i will be moving out at semester next year anyway (most likely) because i plan on studying abroad, so it is going to require some moving no matter what. Oh well, i don't know exactly what i am doing 3 weeks from now, so i certainly don't know about the next summer :)

I'll show you the spots in Seattle if you want MSP! :)

Thanks Rainier! :okay:

edit.

Cool milwaukee aerial.Found at photostogo.com.



http://www.photostogo.com/store/FullPreview.asp?SearchStr=milwaukee+aerial&Maxhits=7551&P=1&dept_id=104&parentdept_id=100&Pagemode=srh&VolumeID=199&eVolidT=%7Exvu9QKI%7D9RC&VolidT=199&ImageNumber=183398&SecNum=%5ESaNaNoQ0FUllF8O3_X5bLTI%7D&Caption=Aerial+shot+of+Milwaukee%2C+WI&Height=53&Width=129&basket_id=&basket_name=&PhotogName=368&keywords=10+163+237+238+616+1168+1367+2102+2354+2391+2646+2777+2841+2888+3278+5833&from=chubby

and another..

http://www.photostogo.com/store/FullPreview.asp?SearchStr=milwaukee+aerial&Maxhits=7551&P=1&dept_id=104&parentdept_id=100&Pagemode=srh&VolumeID=169&eVolidT=v2vu9N2I%7D5LC&VolidT=169&ImageNumber=183397&SecNum=%5ESaNaMoQ0FTllF9N3_W-cLSB6&Caption=Aerial+shot+of+Milwaukee%2C+WI&Height=87&Width=132&basket_id=&basket_name=&PhotogName=368&keywords=10+163+237+238+2102+2354+2391+2646+2888+3278+5833&from=chubby

Don't tell me this is the same Milwaukee thread back from the World Skyscraper Forum of yore.

/\ I know. I just realized that. Still, great pics!

Well, not the same thread from WSF in the technical sense. We did have to start over when the new message boards were created here last fall (and I believe it's been carried over from previous message boards before that, too). So it's more of a continuation...

Yeah, every single post here was made after this forum was started. Thats over 1500 hundreds posts combined, ot including the orginals at SSP. Anyone know what they were over there?

I dunno, but according to CG's starting post in this thread, this is the fourth incarnation of this thread! I am only familiar with the last 2.

Yo.

The original thread was something I started back on SSP about a year and a half ago. Then I went AWOL for a while and when I came back the thing was, like, four pages long. When SSP changed formats, I think we were somewhere around 750 posts, but I was never able to get the exact number. And now it's kinda fuzzy. I started the continuation in the new forum, but it only got to 18 posts before I posted a link there to the one created at WSF since SSP was REALLY SLOW. Then the WSF closed down (we had a lot of posts there too...I can't remember. Someone go check) and we moved here, into this lovely new space. Better ventilation. Higher ceilings. 'Nuff said.

And there is the history of the most obnoxiusly bloated Milwaukee thread...ever. :cheers:

I heard on channel 4 WTMJ news that the Kilbourn tower passed another hurdle in court and won their latest court battle. So it is starting to look good that this tower will get built.

Prep work for Kilbourn Tower began a few weeks ago already. So things have been looking good for getting started for a while now, regardless of the legal stuff (the NIMBYs never had a good case to begin with).

Construction work at Cathedral Place will slow down for a while due to a fatal crane accident in which an I-beam being hoisted up fell out of its cradle onto a worker down below.

Milwaukee can't cut a break with cranes--this is the third fatal crane accident in 5 years.

Why is that? Do we just have really spiteful wind or something?

Curse of the cranes?

Anyway, here's an article about the Kilbourn Tower court case dismissal:

Kilbourn Tower lawsuit dismissed (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/may03/138948.asp)

Let's hope there aren't any crane accidents in its construction.

My Aunt's sister lives in the Regency House Condominiums (top floor!) mentioned in the above article that i literally read about 10 minutes before you posted it Markitect. I hope she was not involved in trying to block construction. I don't know her very well, but she does have one damn nice view. But it is a mute point, because the lawsuit was dismissed.

Having to deliver copper pipe and plumbing supplies in downtown Milwaukee (at that time); I must admit that being a crane operater is amongst the hardest jobs in the world. I remember making a delivery to the Bradle center for Johnson Controls when that building was being constructed and the majority of the copper pipe was picked by a tower crane. All the coordination it took for the crane operater and spotter to pick and drop the delivery on the 5th floor of what at the time 8 floor building (was topped out at time of delivery). Both the operater and spotter were very skillful in their positions and very aware of the danger involved with that job. To say how impressive it was to see the operator of that crane drop the load on the 5th floor with help of the receivers catching and placing the pipe on the 5th floor was really amazing to see. So all my sympathies go to those involved in this accident and hopefully such an accident won't happen anytime soon. But man that is such a dangerious job; I know I couldn't handle it.

Just to inform all of you that last Thursday was my 40th birthday!!! Even though I'm an old man now I'm starting to wonder who's older, me or this thread? I ahhhh, DOH, see my memory is going already!

MSPtoMKE, you really need to make another post soon before you start growing horns on your head and start carrying a pitch fork!

Happy belated Birthday Mr. Paule! I hoped you partied like it was 1999! LOL.
How many floors are up for Catherdal Place??

Ya, happy birthday pops. ;)

What's with comparing MSPtoMKE to the devil? I'm confused.

CG, for a good 12 hours or so, i had 666 posts!

And a very happy birthday wish goes to Paule. Only one week late for me!

Happy birthday Paule ! (though a bit late on my part)

I love this picture. lol

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/may03/sheriffbig0511.jpg

Hey. That would be a nice addition to the skyline. PoMo, I'd say.

Nice pic CG5, I saw that also on the JSonline site.

Thanks for the birthday wishes guys, your the best!

You guys wouldn't believe how much the Wausau downtown is growing. We are going through our own little renaissance here just like in Milwaukee. I hope to be adding some pics of it when I get the mind to but I know I will soon. The big story that came out for us this week is that a 60 room hotel with retail space is approved and will start construction sometime this fall! Otherwise with the new office building going up and it's new parking garage is makeing our skyline one of the best in Wisconsin. I'm starting to call Wausau the Des Moines of Wisconsin. Small skyline but nice, compacted, and symetrical!

I've been hearing that Midwest Airlines is preparing to bite the dust? Any info on this?

"Preparing to bite the dust" is probably the wrong way to phrase it--it makes it sound like they want to, which they don't. Midwest is having financial difficulties, though. There's a little bit about it in this artile:

Northwest adding Milwaukee flights: Move increases pressure on Midwest (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/may03/140212.asp)

There is an interesting discussion of this new service from Northwest Airlines on the Airliners.net discussion board:
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1086769/
It is really too early to know what will happen as a result of this.

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39080
ROT Link to US Bank Center

:cheers:
http://image.photoloft.com/opx-bin/OpxFIDISA.dll?s=cano&src=/Photoloft/Asset21/2003/05/13/10640/10640475_0_4872.fpx,0,0,1,1,3947,280,FFFFFF

http://image.photoloft.com/opx-bin/OpxFIDISA.dll?s=cano&src=/Photoloft/Asset21/2003/05/13/10640/10640488_0_6729.fpx,0,0,1,1,1000,210,FFFFFF

Hurray to cubercle for giving me an excuse to post some of my panos! :cheers: Nicely done cubercle!

http://image.photoloft.com/opx-bin/OpxFIDISA.dll?s=cano&src=/Photoloft/Asset21/2003/05/14/10640/10640570_0_5994.fpx,0,0,1,1,2131,300,FFFFFF

http://image.photoloft.com/opx-bin/OpxFIDISA.dll?s=cano&src=/Photoloft/Asset21/2003/05/14/10640/10640571_0_9646.fpx,0,0,1,1,2139,300,FFFFFF

BAM!

http://image.photoloft.com/opx-bin/OpxFIDISA.dll?s=cano&src=/Photoloft/Asset21/2003/05/14/10641/10641828_0_2765.fpx,0,0,1,1,2000,480,FFFFFF

Mil-Towns thread depressed me :no: - the pics were so good they moved me! :D

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39539

Woah! Tight panos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And Rainer. Don't let those pics get you down. That's just an old industrial area.

Man, I wish I knew how to take and post pictures. :(;)

Damn, Cubercle, more awesome panos. I think panos are the only way to show Milwaukee's density. The downtown is kind of spread apart :applause:

BTW- Was that pic taken from the parking garage across from the Bradley Center?

<table cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=98% class="quoteBox">
<td align=left valign=center> <smallfont> <b>Quote</B> <I>originally posted by cubercle </i></b> </smallfont> </td>
<tr><td align=left valign=top>BAM!

http://image.photoloft.com/opx-bin/OpxFIDISA.dll?s=cano&src=/Photoloft/Asset21/2003/05/14/10641/10641828_0_2765.fpx,0,0,1,1,2000,480,FFFFFF</td></tr>
</table>
:master:

Originally posted by BGT:
Damn, Cubercle, more awesome panos. I think panos are the only way to show Milwaukee's density. The downtown is kind of spread apart

Panos work from certain vantage points to capture all of Downtown. This one, certainly nice, captures only half of it. The best place to catch the whole skyline (on land) would be from further outside of Downtown, like maybe a mile or so away (granted not all the good vantage points are publiclly accessible--the dorms at UWM offer a good view from 2 miles or so away).

BTW- Was that pic taken from the parking garage across from the Bradley Center?

Yep. Taken atop the structure at 4th and Juneau.

that pano is pretty nice, huh?
you guys should see the original, where the quality isn't dumbed down 50% by the image host.
ooh, baby.

I would say Milwaukee looks better during the summer than winter, not to say Milwaukee looks bad during the winter, I just like the way the buildings stick out with the trees and all, especially in that last pano.

Yeah, I thought it was taken there because I took a few up there. Isn't it called the Milwaukee City Parking Garage? Something like that. It has cool views:cool: I just noticed in the pano that you can even see Hotel Wisconsin!

Originally posted by BGT:
Yeah, I thought it was taken there because I took a few up there. Isn't it called the Milwaukee City Parking Garage? Something like that. It has cool views.

I beliebve the garage was built and is owned by the City Of Milwaukee--they lease it out to a company that manages the structure (hence the City of Milwaukee sign/logo out front). It doesn't really have an "official" name though, aside from the generic "4th and Highland Garage." It also has a sports bar on the street level along N. 4th Street--I forget the name of the place.

It does offer some great close-up viwes of Downtown. I've been up there to take some photos too a while back. Had Cubercle aimed the camera in the opposite direction, you'd get a good sense of how much land the demolished Park East Freeway will be opened up for development (you can see a little bit of it on the left of his pano). MSP's got a good up-close shot of the demolition (I think by now, those big pylons are chopped up now, all that's left are twisted pieces of rebar and concrete chunks--all to be recycled). It's kind of eerie walkig aorund down there right now, with these huge piles of rubble and the towering concrete crushing machines rigged up right now.

Wow, this city now gets my respect. I admit midwestern cities have never interested me but this city has something going on. It may not have the economy of Texas cities but atleast it looks like the city seems to have sidewalks pedestrians use unlike Texas where all streets are freeways and feeder roads. Ok I'm exaggerating.

<table cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=98% class="quoteBox">
<td align=left valign=center> <smallfont> <b>Quote</B> <I>originally posted by Markitect </i></b> </smallfont> </td>
<tr><td align=left valign=top>Had Cubercle aimed the camera in the opposite direction, you'd get a good sense of how much land the demolished Park East Freeway will be opened up for development (you can see a little bit of it on the left of his pano).</td></tr>
</table>

http://www.cyburbia.org/gallery/data/6105/1137construction.jpg

http://www.cyburbia.org/gallery/data/6105/1137garage03.jpg

http://www.cyburbia.org/gallery/data/6105/1137garage02.jpg

i think the color scheme of this city is awesome.
it looks very vibrant and each landmark highrise is very distinct.
which is cool.
a lot of cities with bigger skylines lack milwaukee's character.
the lakefront, milwaukee's hilly terrain (which a lot of people don't know it has...)
real nice.

Originally posted by cubercle:
<IMG SRC="http://www.cyburbia.org/gallery/data/6105/1137construction.jpg" HEIGHT="150">



Nice. That chain link fencing on this pedestrian bridge is a pain to work around when you're shooting pictures, eh?

I was down there about a week ago checking out the demolition.

nah, you just stick it (the camera) in the hole (in the fence) and hope it's not too big (the camera).;)

Marcus Corporation to move into 100 East Wisconsin Avenue.

http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ticker=mcs&script=410&layout=7&item_id=412786

So-weet shit! Great panos dude!

I went downtown this past Wednesday. It was rainy. It was cold. But I took plenty of pics. Historic Third Ward and Downtown, comin' up...tomorrow. :)

Here are a few...I'm too lazy to post them all right now. There's around 50...


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/pe639b809caa297b4ea45d391874875a3/fc223503.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/p7622e021c5bf58e6c2c5e0d602e8dd01/fc22349a.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/pb41bf11e550f5f622da7d0c1b9f0773b/fc223492.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/pb8d1007ecd3bd85e46d27e06d6189d2d/fc223485.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid62/p61e0dcb7055ea965fbd25ac7b6ab7d99/fc223464.jpg

The best is yet to come...

Citygod, thoes are great pictures! Did you finally get your own camera?

Well, I've had a camera for about six months. You must have missed my threads on Atlanta, Savannah, Minneapolis/St. Paul, and Madison. :)

Do you guys think that since Marcus Corporation moved its headquarters to Milwaukee, that maybe Marcus might put money into the city to help the city's lodging and entertainment industry?

Marcus isn't moving its headquarters to Downtown Milwaukee--they've been headquartered there for years. Essentially it's just switching buildings--moving across the street and down one block.

Marcus does put in a lot of money for Downtown logding and entrtainment venues--the Pfister, the Hilton, Marcus Center for Performing Arts, the Marcus Amphiatheater; not to mention several movie theaters, resorts, and smaller hotels in the Milwaukee-area (as well as the rest of Wisconsin and several other states).

In other words, don't get your hopes up.

But hopefully hopes are up for some pics. I just finished putting together a new thread. I know I said there were around 50, but I weeded out some of the blurrier ones, so it's really closer to 40. Anywhoo, take a gander and, for the love of God, SAY SOMETHING. Unless you've put together a picture thread with your own pics, you have no idea how annoying it is to get 3 replies after hours of work. (That includes time spent chasing around actually taking pics.)

Here's a link. (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40404) :)

EDIT: I should add, most of you guys usually post. I'm not mad. I'm just really cranky today.

Those are great pics on a cloudy day. Actually, clouds can sometimes enhance a city (sometimes) and I think this was the case on that day.


Cathedral place=up to 16 stories already? Thats what I count. Damn I wish it was just a few more..that would be nice.



And I saw your old threads. I was just under the impression that you were still using your freinds camera for some reason.:? :happy:

Hehe...somehow these shots wound up in the wrong folder on my computer. I thought I'd give you guys a look-see. Hey, dudes, this is an EXCLUSIVE!! ;)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/p8d4d2cfc90640cf8f35ab54c346171a7/fc14840b.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/pc6ac8b992d07b6065e940cb1e7969536/fc148407.jpg

<table cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=98% class="quoteBox">
<td align=left valign=center> <smallfont> <b>Quote</B> <I>originally posted by CG5 </i></b> </smallfont> </td>
<tr><td align=left valign=top>Check out the kick-ass old pic I just found!

http://www.inficad.com/~ksup/img/racine.jpg</td></tr>
</table>


It looks like Amsterdam of the Americas. ;)

At least the riverfront area has been kept up and is still alive with business and people!

that pic is simply stunning! i agree heckles....

The Business Journal reported today that the developer has completed the land purchase for Kilbourn Tower and filed permits to begin construction in June.

Developers complete Kilbourn Tower land purchase (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2003/05/26/daily27.html)

Ok, this thread has been dead long enough. Here is an aerial to get rollin again.




http://www.renewthevalley.org/images/misc/downtown.jpg

And a new pic thread!! By yours truly, of course...

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43721

It's official...


:deadthrea

It's official that saying this thread is dead has been said a million times.


Obviously if you took the time to look for this thread Fiddler, then it's not actually dead?


Like said a million times before Fiddler, this thread can't actually die as long as there is still the city of Milwaukee, and still Milwaukee forumers here. Any moron can see that.

This thread is the only thing on SSC with a pulse. See you over at SSP.

<table cellpadding=4 cellspacing=0 width=98% class="quoteBox">
<td align=left valign=center> <smallfont> <b>Quote</B> <I>originally posted by MiL-TowN </i></b> </smallfont> </td>
<tr><td align=left valign=top>It's official that saying this thread is dead has been said a million times.


Obviously if you took the time to look for this thread Fiddler, then it's not actually dead?


Like said a million times before Fiddler, this thread can't actually die as long as there is still the city of Milwaukee, and still Milwaukee forumers here. Any moron can see that.</td></tr>
</table>


You never finished High School, right?

LOL!

MiL-TowN, while I appreciate your love for the city and it's people, could you just try to be nice about it??

What if I didn't finish high school? What if I dropped out to go join the army? Would you still make fun of me?


HA! Yeah actually I finished high school. Have you? No.


You know I thought you could sense I was messing with you a little bit about my last response to this thread, obviously that didn't happen so from now on I'll never try to "joke around" with you again Fiddler.


AHHHH MUST START BEING 100% SERIOUS!!!

If you guys can relegate your bickering to some other venue (like e-mail or PMs, or better yet, quit it all together) we can get back to what this place is for--discussing Milwaukee architecture and urban development projects.

Better to have this thread appear "alive" to the rest of the SkyscraperCity community with relevant topics than "dead" with irrelevant off-topic bitching amongst yourselves (which is just as "dead" as no new on-topic messages at all).

And now, some on-topic Milwaukee info:

The current issue of the Small Business Times features an article with Milwaukee Mayor John Norquist in which he talks about the city's renaissance, transportation issues, state and local budgeting, and future challenges and potential.

John Norquist unplugged - A Q&A with the Milwaukee mayor (http://www.biztimes.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=currentissue.welcome)

An artcile in today's Journal Sentinel announces plans for Harbor Front--another condominium development (160-180 total units) along the Milwaukee River at the southern end of the Third Ward. The project is the lastest in a bunch of new residential construction that's already gone up, is currently going up, or will be going up in the surrounding blocks.

Condos planned for riverfront: $30 million project's site near Summerfest grounds (http://www.jsonline.com/homes/buy/jun03/149115.asp)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/jun03/eriebig061803.jpg

I like the look of that new development. How much will one of those apartments cost?

Great article with Mayor John Norquist. I noticed the phrase "Its up to them" used a lot though... Hopefully all this hype will pay off.

Gee, I didn't know my posts had to be stamped with the markitect seal of approval. :)


Serioulsy, those condos look nice! Any word on the price?



They're cool like ice. So don't think twice. Later, I gotta eat some rice.:guns1:

While we're on topic:



Local architect has inside track to land Milwaukee City Hall project

The City of Milwaukee expects to select an architect this month to lead the $40 million historical restoration of City Hall.
The Milwaukee Department of Public Works solicited a request for proposals in February and received seven responses, according to Venu Gupta, director of buildings and fleet services for the department.

The department is final negotiations with Engberg Anderson Design Partnership, which recently completed renovation of the nearby Pabst Theatre. The architect and the department will then select a general contractor, Gupta said. "We were looking for people who had experience in historic buildings and buildings of this scope and significance," he said. "We're hoping in the next couple of weeks that we have this worked out."

City Hall, located at the corner of Wells and Water streets, is perhaps the most recognizable structure on Milwaukee's skyline, with the possible exception of the US Bank Center.

"We have been selected, and we are now in the process of negotiating with the city on the terms," said Charles Engberg, founding partner with Engberg Anderson. "We're pretty excited about this project. We feel blessed to have been given the opportunity to work with the city on this project."

Original construction of the Flemish renaissance building was completed in 1895. The building received substantial renovations in 1919, the 1930s, the 1950s and the 1970s.

The structure, Gupta said, is due for significant rehabilitation. The work will include:
-- Tuckpointing
-- Replacing some terra cotta materials
-- Replacing portions of the clock gables
-- Refurbishing or replacing the clock faces
-- Replacing the copper roof
-- Replacing all of the windows in the building
-- Making minor interior repairs

"What we believe has happened is technologies have changed, and we're trying to extend the service life of what we do to it," Gupta said. "It's simply age. After 100-some years, it requires some major attention."

The nine-story, 490-foot-high building is believed to be one of the tallest "truly masonry" towers in the nation, according to Gary Kulwicki, facilities manager for the Department of Public Works. The project's goal is to preserve the building's functionality without altering its beloved appearance, he said. "The point of the restoration is not to make it look new. It's an antique," Kulwicki said.

Scaffolding has been erected at several points around the ground floor of the building as a precautionary step to protect visitors and employees at the structure. More scaffolding will be clad around the upper levels of the building when the restoration begins in next spring, Gupta said.

The department expects the restoration to be complete by the end of 2006. Some city offices can expect to see some disruptions as the project progresses, Gupta said. "There will be some noise, some grinding, but nothing out of the ordinary," he said. "But everybody likes the building, and they'll put up with it."

The west facade of the building will be restored first, followed by the east and the north facades, Gupta said.
The project will be funded over several years. Gupta and Kulwicki said the Milwaukee Common Council recognizes the need for the repairs and the historical significance of the building. Gupta and Kulwicki said they're not concerned the city's commitment will change next year, even when a new mayor takes office.

"The structure is owned and loved by the community, by the taxpayers," Kulwicki said. "I've worked there since 1968, and every time I look at that structure, I see something I didn't see before."

"There is no question about the need. The need is there," Gupta said. "It will be (funded) over multiple years. It is a very sound structure. It's just the cyclical weathering, the wear and tear, that needs to be replaced.

The architect that is chosen later this month will help the city apply to the US Secretary of Interior to obtain National Landmark status for the City Hall, Gupta said. Such a designation could help the city obtain federal funding for the restoration project, he said. The Milwaukee City Hall already is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

One aspect that makes the building unique is its varied forms of construction, Kulwicki said. The base is built on granite, while the next two stories are built with sandstone, and the remaining stories are comprised of some-8 million pieces of brick, enhanced by terra cotta, he said.

"It's what, in trade parlance, is known as a transitional building. It was not built with a skeleton frame," Engberg said. "It was unique for its time. It was, for its day, as complex and innovative as the Calatrava building is today. This is a national landmark."

June 13, 2003 Small Business Times, Milwaukee
By Steve Jagler, SBT Executive Editor

The prices for the Harbor Front condos are described in the article I linked to.

Hi all, just checking in, its been awhile... :wave:

Well, i was watching Futurama on Adult Swim on Cartoon Network tonight, and it was a Valentines Day episode. They visited the Corporate Headquarters of RomantiCorp, in the "most romantic city on Earth". Cut to the Ship flying by a floating sign that says "Milwaukee, the birthplace of Beer Goggles". I laughed my ass off, they had a nice flyover of the city, i wish i could have gotten a better look. Firstar/US Bank was very prominent in the skyline, still the tallest. Sorry Guys ;) I think I saw the Hoan Bridge and a few other landmarks too. Maybe one of the writers or animators was a Milwaukeean :D

Anyways, its nice to hear the good news about all the development, i will try to check in more often.

Wow! We made Futurama? That's an accomplishment. :)


The news about City Hall is great to hear. I remember, about a year ago, reading in the J-S that the building was falling apart and the city was reluctant to renovate due to lack of funds. Good to see some progress!

It's really too bad that the news had to be presented so rudely. I suppose I should expect nothing less of a thread where many of the regulars insist on being catty bitches. I guess it attests to how disturbingly close to a family this group comes...like a bunch of brothers: constantly poking, annoying, and badgering each other...but there's love in there somewhere.

The writer of that particular Futurama episode ("Love and Rocket") is indeed from Milwaukee.

LOL! Innocent little CG5, never provokes anything?


Either way I am now a "Catty bitch."


Ohhh don't I feel classy!

Note that I never named names. You said it. Not me.


Besides, if you would have looked more carefully, you'd have seen that I have already classified myself as a catty bitch.

You've much to learn about being a catty bitch.

I'll reiterate:

If you guys can relegate your bickering to some other venue (like e-mail or PMs, or better yet, quit it all together) we can get back to what this place is for--discussing Milwaukee architecture and urban development projects.

Thank you.


Moving on to relevant topics...

Mayor Norquist is expected to announce today that he will be leaving his final term early, at the end of December, instead of finishing his term through April 2004. He will be taking a new job heading up the Congress for New Urbanism--a national organization of civic leaders, urban planners, designers, and architects he helped create in 1993. The CNU promotes compact, pedestrian and transit friendly urban development as an alternative to sprawling suburban development. These concepts have been a very noticeable theme throughout Norquist's four terms as mayor.

Norquist leaving early - Mayor to announce end-of-year departure for new job (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jun03/150042.asp)

National organization promotes compact development - New Urbanism backs siting houses near shops as a way to fight sprawl (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jun03/150043.asp)

Also, the Park East Corrdior Redevelopment has been awarded one of 15 CNU Charter Awards (out of 169 entries), a yearly honor that recognizes projects that promote the organization's urban design principles.

Not a huge shock with the Norquist thing. I'm surprised he hasn't left earlier.

Also, on skyscrapers.com, there is 25 story (or so, I forgot) building that is proposed called "Ovation Plaza." That is all the info they gave, however.

The Ovation Plaza/Center/Tower (it's been called different things in different sources) is the name of the proposal for the Marcus Center parking garage site. So far it still remains a proposal.

Another article from today's Journal Sentinel about the CNU and Mayor Norquist's new job:

Norquist says he has no reservations about early exit (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jun03/150054.asp)

And a press release from CNU:

John Norquist: CNU's New President and CEO (http://www.cnu.org/news/index.cfm?formAction=press_release_item&press_release_id=37&CFID=3535369&CFTOKEN=28308772)

Yet in other Milwaukee development news, an article in today's Business Journal describes GE Medical's search for a relocation site, and Downtown is a strong contender. Possible Downtown sites include:

- Schlitz Park - the mixed-use office development that has been created out of the former Schlitz brewery on the northern fringes of Downtown)

- Ovation Plaza - the proposed mixed-use tower to be built across from the Marcus Center for Performing Arts, where its parking garage now stands, across from 1000 N. Water.

- A proposed second tower for 1000 N. Water - the second tower would be built atop the existing 8-story parking garage that makes up a major portion of the building's base. The structue of the parking garage was originally built so a second tower could be built in the future if the demand was there.

(No drawings, so don't ask.)

GE Medical unit pursues downtown site - City officials prepare incentive package (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2003/06/23/story5.html)

Also in today's Business Journal, an article discussing the possibitily of the Marcus Corporation's very preliminary proposal for a multiplex movie theater in Downtown. Basically, Marcus is exploring the market and possible sites for a theater right now. Some possible locations include a space in the PabstCity complex (the mixed-use entertainment district that is proposed for the former Pabst Brewery complex in the northwest Corner of Downtown) and a spot in the soon-to-be-opened-for-development Park East corridor. There has also been some discussion in recent weeks about the possibilty of relocating the Potowatomi Bingo & Casino out of the Menomonee Valley and into a part of the Park East corridor.

Marcus explores downtown theater site - Challenges include parking lot expenses (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2003/06/23/story7.html)

Killer update. I have one question - - if Potowatomi relocates, what would they do with that still brand new facility in the Valley? That's no shabby establishment.

It would be great if 3 new office towers were to be built. As to weather 1 or all are built is anyones guess at this time. If it were up to me 3 new office towers would be the start of something that could end up being really good for the downtown area of Milwaukee. The arguement against 3 25 to lets say 35 story projects is a projected glut of office space and nobody to fill the space. My arguement for these projects would be thus.

Sometimes it takes vision of what you hope the future will be if something is put forward or even put to fruitition. Many are still angered to disappointed with the fact Firstar now US Bank moved their Headquarters to Minneapolis. If there is something to learn from that is maybe we (City of Milwaukee) needs to get a little more progressive and take a chance that if some of these projects are going to get done that the city may recruit some business to locate in Milwaukee that otherwise might not.

It is good to see so much interest being taken up for downtown Milwaukee. Maybe this is Milwaukee's time to have a building boom of sorts and maybe show some of those businesses that Milwaukee is ready for them to look at Milwaukee as a place to go into business.

I agree with what MFO just posted. I was reading an article on Chicago yesterday, about this time, ironically enough, and it started out by talking about the positive influence visionary thinking can have on the future of a city. While the choice to build speculatively can have negative effects (like a glut of open office space,) it can have positive ones as well. Like providing the city's core with an image as an area with an increasing pulse. And that can't hurt us.

I have to disagree with your spin on speculative skyscraper construction, CG. An empty building is an empty building, no matter how many of them fill your skyline and line your streets. All you get with that approach is more buildings, and that does not breathe life into a city. People and activities do. Thus if you have no people or activities to fill those empty buildings, you're not any better off than you were than before those buildings were built. Sure your skyline might be bigger, but your streets are still empty. Sure those buildings could fill up in the future, but what if they don't? What if it takes 20 years? Quantity does not equal quality.

From a developmer/landlord stanpoint, putting up a speculative skyscraper is very expensive. What happens if a skyscraper is built as a speculative venture and the owner cannot land a tennant? The owner has a huge freaking empty building to maintain and no tenant to generate the income the owner needs to upkeep it. Not a smart business move at all. This is why you don't see speculative high rises built in cities. This is why developers like to land at least one major tenant before going ahead with construction (and why the financing from the banks won't kick in until something's been confirmed). Developers can get away with pre-fab, low rise spec buildings in all the anonymous office parks in Mequon, Brookfield, Pewaukee, etc because those buildings are much cheaper to build, maintain, and lots of firms still drool over the advantages such locations have over urban sites (that's not to say urban sites don't have their own advantages and disadvantages either). Luckily, we are starting to see a shift in attitudes among firms, and they are turning back toward urban areas.

The "more progressive appraoch" MFO seems to have written about is not about building these three buildings in a speculative manner. Rather it is about the City of Milwaukee (governement) going out and recruiting tenants for these buildings pre-construction. The City does do this already, though it may not be highly publicized, and may be overlooked by the general public. Such recruitment/incentive efforts have been mentioned in the recent decision for Roundy's to move its headquarters from Pewaukee to Dowtown Milwaukee (and Wuakesha County Executive Finley even made a big stink about it, accusing the City of "pirating" Roundy's out of Pewaukee--which didn't turn out to be the case at all). Recruitment/incentive efforts by the City for attracting GE Medical have also been mentioned in several articles.


As for Potowatomi, noting has been said of what would become of their current building if they would move (and that's a pretty big IF, to boot, local politicians and business leaders can talk it up all they want, but the decision to move isn't up to them, it's up to the Federal government (it was hard enough convincing the Feds to give the tribe it's site in the Valley)). The idea was brought up by the Menomonee Valley Parters--a group of businesses and organizations in and around the Valley. They say that the casino is affecting land values in the area which the partnership and the City has slated for modern industrial use. The casino was expanded a few years ago, and there are plans to expand it again in the near future. The tribe hasn't really taken a concrete stance on the issue, basicall it has said that if the opportunity to move would be available, they would consider a move--nothing definite.

Personally, I'm not entirely sold on the idea. The Park East was removed to open up land for development--land that could be put on the City tax rolls. If the Potowatomi were granted permission to relocate to the Park East area, that would essentially eliminate a good chunk of land for such development--some three blocks worth of land would become tax exempt. While a Potowatomi land swap would open up the current casino site in the Valley for industrial development, I'm not so sure that would bring in as much as, say, a mixed use office, retail, residential building in the Park East.

I am more concenred with the urban design and architecture aspects of such a casino. They don't really enliven the streets with acitivity, as everyone is inside playing bingo, cranking the slots, or playing blackjack. Casinos don't usually have windows looking outside (and if they do, they're very limited), because they don't want people aware of their surroundings (it's much harder to tell you've been at the roulette wheel all day long if you can't look out the window an notice it's nighttime already--similar reasons why you won't find clocks in a casino). A long windowless facade along McKinley Street isn't exactly the way to make Downtown Milwaukee look active to people coming in off the freeway. A casino complex taking up 3 or so blocks would likely include skywalks too (can't have patrons be distracted by having them walk outside to cross the street), which also kills pedestrian activity on the streets. A casino complex could be lined with restaurants, for example, along the streets, but even a touristy area can only handle so many restaurants before saturating the local market.

All in all, I have to say I'd need some more concrete info about a Downtown casino, especially about what it'd look like and how it would fit in with the city from a design standpoint before I'd buy into the idea.

We'll see.

Markitect, I agree with your view on the gaming casino although my reasoning may be different than yours. My first reason for leaving the gaming casino where it is, The Potowatamie spent a great deal of money making some of the improvements they deemed necessary for them to make money in their venture so why move just for the sake of moving? Also if you look into the issue further the Brewers and the 5 county metro Milwaukee area is being taxed for the building of Miller Park also in the Valley area of Milwaukee.

Now maybe this will sound stupid but where is there some development around Miller Park? Is there a Hotel/ Motel within walking distance of the Ballpark? Or is the closest such facilty the gaming casino? There are Hotels and such downtown Milwaukee which is 5 or so miles down the road also there are Hotels/Motels in the suburbs which could range as close as 5 miles but in many cases much more than that. Here the city has a development worth hundereds of millions of dollars and just parking lots within walking distance of ballpark. To me a few supplemental businesses such as hotel/motel rooms and some restaurants and other small commercial projects around the valley won't make Miller Park look as desolate and isolated as it is now.

As for moving a gaming casino downtown all I have to ask is why? The city knew going in that tearing down the Park East freeway would leave a great deal of land vacant. The Republican candadate for mayor the last time (I forgot his name it is something or other Webb?)warned what may end up happening if the Park East was torn down. For me to do this land any kind of justice let the market determine what will or will not be done with the land opened up after the demolition of this freeway. A gaming casino won't solve the problem if that is indeed what it was intended to do just to fill up vacant space that wasn't sold to the public. All that is doing is filling up a vacant spot and creating another vacant spot in the valley. I know there may be a thought, if this casino was downtown that some of the gamblers will be more inclined to see a sporting event at the Bradley Center. I ask how many of those same gamblers go to a Brewer game? If the answer is not many. Then I would say not many of those gamblers are likely to see a sporting event at the BC either. Many of those people who go to those gaming casino's go to gamble and not to sightsee so it would be pointless to put a gaming casino in an area you are hoping to attract tourist's who do go to see the sights.

I really don't have a ready answer for what to do with the land created after the demolition of the Park East other that what I said "that the market will determine what will be done with the land." I do know that the BC wants to renovate so that it is a more attractive venue for the Bucks. The BC isn't to far from the reminates of the torn down freeway maybe something that will facilitate and add to the remodeling of the BC should be explored rather than a gaming casino.

Just one more thought on gaming casino's, Aren't most of the gaming casinos put into isolated spots outside of cities? I don't think there are too many gaming casino's in downtown area's other than maybe some riverboat gambling casino's. So my guess is that there are reasons that gaming casino's aren't built in major downtown area's.

I agree with what's been said about a downtown casino. Bad choice. It's once thing if you're in Vegas, where all they have are casinos. But in the heart of a brand new high-interest development area? Uh, no.

And I would write something as long and (hopefully) as interesting as Markitect on my theory behind speculative building, but I am just too frazzled at the moment. Coffee overload. My thoughts are bouncing around. I promise that I will come back later and put them in order for you all to judge and bash and concur with as you please. But for the time being, I must refrain from intelligent conversation. It's just too damn serious for me.

CG5, I understand your feelings well on speculative building in the downtown area of Milwaukee. I have modified my view a bit on this subject, reason being Milwaukee for the lack of a better word is a cautious plodding style of city. Milwaukee is also still considered more of a blue collar working class in factories type of area than a white collar office worker type of area. That isn't to say that things aren't changing in the area of being a more white collar professional in Milwaukee than a blue collar worker type in the Milwaukee area because I think the Milwaukee metro area is trying to become a more white collar city.

As witnessed by some of Markitect's postings on this particular subject of speculative building to me isn't surprising and in way typifies what many people in the Milwaukee metro area like. I think in a sense Miller Park represents a reason to not be speculative in building to many in the area. The Brewers held the citizens feet to the fire (so to speak) to get that ballpark built, only to fail to bring a quality team to play in this new ballpark. With the Brewers track record (fairly or not) to talk out of both sides of their mouths leaves an immpression that maybe before we invest in a major project we better have proof of intent before we give an investment of any sort of money. I will not say anymore as to what Markitect may say or not but to say that his view is a view shared by many in the metro Milwaukee area.

I will say a more fundamental change in the area must take place in Milwaukee before we see what hopefully will be seeing people relocate in the Metro area at a greater growth rate percentage than in the most recent census said of Milwaukee. When you look at Chicago a metro area that grew at 11.1%, the Twin cities(Minneapolis/St.Paul) which grew at 16.9% or Indianapolis which grew at 16.4% or even the likes of Grand Rapids Michaigan which grew at 16.1% or even Kansas City which grew at 12.2% or even Cincinnati at 8.9% all of these places are gaining populations at a greater rate than Metro Milwaukee which grew at 5.1% over the last census. That is the competition and they are all doing a better job of bringing jobs towards their area's than metro Milwaukee is. If the city is going to see any major development in their skyline or the area in general. The metro area (City and suburbs) have to have a plan to help bring people into the area. The metro area has to represent itself to the State better and express why it is so vital to the state to have a vital and vibrant metro Milwaukee area.

As I have said, I too have the tendancy to be speculative and would love to see a more speculative attitude in the metro Milwaukee area. But I have modified my approach somewhat in the area of speculative building toward seeing the metro area work toward a common goal of improving the area through population and job growth. If metro area can do that then maybe we will see a building boom in the metro area that reflects the growth happening in the area.

holy crap get a new city already

easleygwave06, I don't know what your comment is about? Let's try and get off on the right foot here and remember that this one particular thread is about "What about Milwaukee?" and not about getting the regular posters on this topic pissed off at you for what can be construed as a snide off collar remark.

CG5, As for my last posting I would like to hear your theory behind speculative building it will be interesting to see what you have to say on the subject. And why you think it may work in Milwaukee's case.

I'm Sorry about the last rambling I wrote. What frustrates me most about the Milwaukee area is over the last 3 censuses is the lost Milwaukee influence has developed due to a slow growth rate. And how really lucky Milwaukee is despite the loss of influence, mean the area does have two major pro league teams where other metro area's of comparable size might not have any. I mean there was a time about the 1970's when the metro Milwaukee area was in the top 15 largest metro area's in this country and now it is now rated as the 26th largest metro area (not including San Jaun PR which would drop Milwaukee 1 more space). Milwaukee will probably drop a few more spots if current trends continue to happen with the metro area's of Orlando FL, Indianapolis IN, San Antonio TX and Las Vegas NV passing Milwaukee's Metro area population and Columbus OH, Charlotte NC, and Virginia Beach/Norfolk/Newport News/Chesapeake VA not being to far behind.

First of all, I think you guys might be misdirecting your issues about speculative high rises--or the lack of specualtive building--toward the City. Your "problem" lies more with the way the building/construction/financing industries function, rather than local governmental controls over what gets built and what doesn't. Your problems are with the business side of development. I've already explained why you don't see spec high rises getting built, so I'm not going to re-explain it--but I will point out that it's not done like that just in Milwaukee, it's done like that all over the place. Spec high-rises are a bad, or at least very very risky business move. That's why all of them have to land at least one major tenant before anything gets built. That's why banks won't finance residential towers until half of the units are sold. It has absolutely nothing to do with the "attitude of most Milwaukee residents" or "the way they think." It has nothing to do with Milwaukee at all.

As for comparing metro Milwaukee to faster-growing metro areas like Orlando, Las Vegas, San Antonio, etc., I would have to say quantity does not equal quality. Take a good look at the kind of stuff getting developed rather than how much development is going on. Much of the growth in those places isn't urban at all, it's suburban sprawl. That's not to say Milwaukee doesn't have it's fair share of sprawl, because it does, but Milwaukee's sprawl isn't sprawling out as fast or as far out as those other places, which actually could be considered a good thing.

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As for comparing metro Milwaukee to faster-growing metro areas like Orlando, Las Vegas, San Antonio, etc., I would have to say quantity does not equal quality. Take a good look at the kind of stuff getting developed rather than how much development is going on. Much of the growth in those places isn't urban at all, it's suburban sprawl. That's not to say Milwaukee doesn't have it's fair share of sprawl, because it does, but Milwaukee's sprawl isn't sprawling out as fast or as far out as those other places, which actually could be considered a good thing.</td></tr>
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Markitect, I will answer this paragraph as thus, You are correct to a degree that building up an area to just build isn't good business and causes nothing but empty buildings with no tenants so I have no dispute over that.

What I would like to see in the metro Milwaukee area is more job growth. A more pro business atmosphere not only in metro Milwaukee but the whole state of Wisconsin as well. It would do this state and metro Milwaukee good if some of those new college graduates actually stayed in the state or metro Milwaukee area for their new jobs or careers instead of maybe having to relocate to start their new career.

As for my pointing out census statistics I have used the cities of Chicago, Minneapolis/StPaul, Cincinnati, Indianapolis and Grand Rapids as a point of reference of places within a 500 mile radius that have done a better job of promoting their area's growth rate and job rate. I didn't mention Detroit, Cleveland, Toledo, or St.Louis also within a 500 mile radius of Milwaukee because all of these places have a similar growth rate or lower. I will not say the area is sitting on their hands but I do know if the area could find a way to attact new businesses into the area don't you think it would do the area a world of good?

As for your saying most of that growth in those area's is due to suburban sprawl is true to a degree as well. I will use what is now happening in the most recent news as my example.

There was all this talk of the Buck's being for sale and the talk of Michael Jordan buying the Bucks and if nothing was done with the Bradley Center that he would relocate the Buck's to another market. Some may wonder why Michael would buy a small market team? How do you define small market team? A TV market is defined as a 50 mile radius of the central business core of a metro area or where the team is based, (such as Milwaukee's case Kenosha isn't included with the Milwaukee radius is due to Chicago's central business core is also 50 miles away from Kenosha and with Chicago being the larger of the two Kenosha was placed into the cmsa of Chicago and not with Milwaukee even though Kenosha is closer to Milwaukee than Chicago). So why would this make a difference? I answer because if the Bucks or even the Brewers leave Milwaukee nobody will ever locate a team in the metro Milwaukee area due to the 90 miles Milwaukee is from Chicago. Whether you are a sports fan or not the pro franchises that make metro Milwaukee home has a metro area of just under 1.7 million people. whereas most other places that have pro sports teams have an average metro area something over 2 million people or close to it. There are only 12 exceptions in the USA to where Milwaukee is at, one is Buffalo (Bills NFL &Sabres NHL)with many people from nearby Rochester supporting Buffalo's pro Sports teams, Two New Orleans witch may end up losing the Saints (NFL) to Los Angeles though they gained the Hornets (NBA). Three, Orlando witch has the Magic (NBA). And four Salt Lake city that has the Jazz (NBA) the others are San AntonioTX, Charlotte NC, Raleigh NC, Columbus OH, Memphis TN, Nashville TN, Jacksonville FL, and Indianapolis IN. of those 12 places that have a smaller population only 2 Buffalo and New Orleans are growing at lower rate than Milwaukee with only Buffalo losing population. The other 10 cities are all growing at better than 15% over the last census. So to me it would be rational to see if the Milwaukee market might be a market without a team in the future. Sports teams place a great emphathes on the regional marketing area of 50 or so miles and in some respects so do many businesses. Is that sprawl ? Yes it is but that is what many look at when determining where they may want to locate a business.

This arguement may be pointless, but I will stand by what I am saying because whether you like pro sports or want more business activity. People notice whether quality of life in the area is good or not by some of the civic activities that take place within a metro area and a big part of that determination is done by the top pro teams that play within that metro area. And if the market isn't able to support those teams as determined by a teams marketing statistics then there is going to be that fear that when someone else buys these teams that they may want to locate in an area that may provide them a larger fan base, or in the case of large business a larger workforce base.

Get your Milwaukee butts over to mlb.com and get the deserving Geoff Jenkins voted on to the all-star team as the 32nd man.

The Pabst Brewery redevelopment, PabstCity, is in the process of negotiating another possible tenant. Hofbrauhaus Milwaukee--a branch of the famous beer hall in Munich, Germany--would be a microbrewery and restaurant. It would be located in the beautiful castle-like Pabst Brewery office complex.

A similar Hofbrauhaus near Cincinnati opened earlier this year. The owner is looking to expand in here in Milwaukee, which has a rich history of German roots and breweing.

PabstCity developers mentioned earlier this year that a House of Blues could be another potential tenant of the mixed-use housing, retail, office, entertainment center being created from the former brewery. Nothing has been confirmed yet; at least not publically.

See the article from today's Milwaukee Journal Sentinel for more details:

PabstCity could get a prosit - Hofbrauhaus proposal has ties to original in Munich (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jul03/153893.asp)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jul03/brabig070903.jpg

Explain something to me: how is it that a simple thread of milwaukee pictures now has 44 pages of responses?!

Originally posted by dcb11

Explain something to me: how is it that a simple thread of milwaukee pictures now has 44 pages of responses?!
We love our Milwaukee :grouphug:

This thread has a long and glorious history of being the ultimate thread for posting all things Milwaukee, including pictures and development. I believe this is the 4th incarnation of this dear thread as forums have changed over time. :D

I have an idea: why don't we move the thread from this lousy forum and back to WSF or SSP.

Originally posted by Fiddlerontheruf:
I have an idea: why don't we move the thread from this lousy forum and back to WSF or SSP.

There's just too much good material right here to abandon this thread. Probably the easiest things to do is just post relevant information across all three forums, SSC/SSP/WSF (interesting, that WSF has "reopened" with "limited bandidth"); or at least post stuff in one and then a link to the it in the other two. Since WSF is very limited on bandwidth, it might make more sense to post bandwidth-intensive stuff like pictures either here at SSC or at SSP--just an idea.

Major development news has been slow for Milwaukee lately, that's all. It'll pick up again once some of the proposals on the table wiggle their way through the process of becoming reality.

The Park East area will open to development next year.

Plans are underway in the Menomonee Valley for some really cool stuff.

Projects currently under construction Downtown will be completed soon.

A new design for the Pier Wisconsin project is underway.

All it takes it a little bit of patience...

http://image.photoloft.com/opx-bin/OpxFIDISA.dll?s=cano&src=/Photoloft/Asset21/2003/07/28/10921/10921585_0_1687.fpx,0,0,1,1,3947,280,FFFFFF

What program are you using to splice your photos together to make a panoramic shot like that?

Some more great news for Downtown Milwaukee was announced in today's Journal Sentinel. Bank One is relocating its suburban Menomonee Falls back office operations, which consists of 750 people, to its Downtown Milwaukee headquarters in Bank One Plaza at the southwest corner of E. Wisconsin Avenue and N. Water Street. The move will more than double the current number of Bank One employees in the building once renovations are made and the move is complete early next year. Incoming employees will be filling up space in Bank One Plaza that will be vacated when the Whyte Hirschboeck Dudek law firm moves into its new offices in Cathedral Place early next year.

Such a move is significant, especially since this is the second company this year to announce relocating operations from suburban Waukesha County to Downtown Milwaukee. Of course, Roundys, Inc. committed earlier this year to consolidate and relocate its operations from suburban Milwaukee and Waukesha Counties to the soon-to-be-completed 875 East [Wisconsin Avenue] office building.

Read the article for more details: Bank One moving 750 suburban workers downtown (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jul03/158913.asp)


An article from yesterday's Journal Sentinel describes another new business venture just across the river and over one block. A new Irish pub and restaurant is moving into a prominent building on the northwest corner of W. Wisconsin and N. Plankinton Avenues. Mo's Irish Pub is filling space vacated by St. Francis Bank, which relocated into the Shops of Grand Avenue (also currently under renovation) across the street earlier this year. This is the lastes in a series of Mo's restaurants/shops--all of which are located within a few hundered feet of each other (restaurant Mo's: A Place for Steaks, 720 N. Plankinton Ave., which opened in 1999, and deli/wine shop Mo's Market: A Place for Wine, 717 N. Plankinton Ave., which opened in 2001).

The article also briefly touches on some of the other revitalization projects on that stretch of Wisconsin Avenue, including the nightclub Pure, the Boston Lofts above the Boston Store, apartment conversions in the Majestic Building, and the new retail stores coming to the Shps of Grand Avenue later this year.

Check out the article for more info: Downtown projects heat up - Mo's Irish Pub is latest addition to developments along Wisconsin Ave. (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/News/jul03/158604.asp)


The big news story announced in today's Journal Sentinel is the latest step in the process to redevelop the Menomonee Valley--the once-buslting industrial center of Milwaukee. The City has announced its purchase (as part of the condemnation process) of the former Milwaukee Road railroad shops and yard facilities. The 134-acre site, owned by CMC Heartland Partners of Chicago, has sat vacant for 20 years after the Milwaukee Road went out of business. CMC had announced plans several times that it was going to redevelop the property but never really made any serious effort to do so. After getting fed up with empty promises, and realizing the potental of the proprty, the City of Milwaukee began a fight to condemn the land a few years ago, clean it up, and prepare it for proper development. The City has offered CMC $3.55 million for the land, which is a cruicial step in revitalizing the entire Valley.

The City has been working with other interested parties to prepare a development plan for the entire Valley, including the Milwaukee Road Shops site. It is expected the Valley will return to its industrial roots, becoming a modern-day center for industrial and light-manufacturing uses, creating thousands of jobs for Milwaukeeans--in addition to entertainment, recreational, office, retail, and residential uses in other parts of the Valley. Plans call for a focus on "green architecture," buldings and site plans designed to incorporate environmentally sustainable elements. Another key to redevelopment is to improve access to the Menomonee Valley with the extension of W. Canal Street, which has connections to nearby freeways, as well as extensive railroad access. Work on Canal Street is expected to start and finish in 2004, with the possibility of opening some sites up for development by summer 2005 (pending environmental contamination cleanup).

See the article for an in-depth look at the announcement: Valley deal plants seeds for growth - Dormant for 20 years, Menomonee land is sold to city for development (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jul03/158911.asp)


Finally, a Journal Sentinel article from this past Monday describes the experimental "green roof" atop the offices of the Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District. A green roof is one design feature of the aforementioned practice of environmentally sustainable design. The experiment placess thousands of plants on the roof, in hopes of controlling rainwater runoff/stormwater retention, reduce the wear and tear on the roof, and lower temperatures inside and outside the building because of the cooling effect green roofs have. The effects of the experimental green roof atop MMSD's office will be closely monitored, and can be ealisly modified if the need arises.

The green roof concept is widely used in Europe, but has been somewhat slow to take off in the US. Once of the more well-known US green roofs is the one atop City Hall in Chicago. As far as I know, this is the first green roof in Milwaukee, and the concept will be encouraged elsewhere in the city.

Read more about it in the article: Sewerage district touts 'green roofs' (http://www.jsonline.com/news/Metro/jul03/158181.asp)

Also included in the article is a photo of the MMSD green roof, with a northeasterly view of the Milwaukee skyline in the background. MMSD's offices are located just off S. 2nd Street in Walker's Point, right where the Menomonee Canal splits off the Menomonee River directly across the river from the Post Office Building near Downtown. Note the tower crane for Cathedral Place (topped out now at 18-floors) in the background.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jul03/greenbig072703.jpg

Like I said in my reply to you at WSF, "I can always count on you for the most up to date info"!

As I read the article on the Bank One move I was especially interested about the office vacancy rate. They said the latest figure was at 15.4 % I wish they would've speculated how this move would effect that percentage in numbers. Anyway as that number continues to move downward I believe soon we'll see things like that 24 story Building proposed further down the ave. becomeing approved and maybe even some more proposals.

Skyline wise I believe it would be nice to see Milwaukee fill in spots with these highrises. Yes it would be great to see one tall 700footer but Milwaukkee also needs the fillers. That is to fill in those empty spaces so that it doesn't look so spread out. Milwaukee's downtown seems to have 3 or 4 different skylines now. The more building that can fill in those places will help to make Milwaukee's skyline looking as one.

Markitect, do you have any new pics of Cathedral place? I was wondering how it looks now being topped off. I haven't been to downtown Milwaukee since last fall!

Thanks, Paule.

Originally posted by Paule

As I read the article on the Bank One move I was especially interested about the office vacancy rate. They said the latest figure was at 15.4 % I wish they would've speculated how this move would effect that percentage in numbers. Anyway as that number continues to move downward I believe soon we'll see things like that 24 story Building proposed further down the ave. becomeing approved and maybe even some more proposals.

There are multiple big-name real estate agencies in the area, that may release their annual reports at different times of the year. So perhaps some other agency will release its own report later on this year that would include updated numbers. It might be the reporter only used the most recently released report, the data of which would be using slightly older numbers (since it takes a while to put those things together, theree's a bit of information lag). On the other hand, they might only count current vacancy rates, and may not include things that are currently under construction, or that are soon-to-be under construction, since those spaces are not occupiable yet. I'm not sure how it works.


Markitect, do you have any new pics of Cathedral place? I was wondering how it looks now being topped off. I haven't been to downtown Milwaukee since last fall!

There are some construction photos of Catherdral Place taken in June at Skyscrapers.com that show the building topped out. The major difference between those pictures and what it looks like now is that some of the glazing and precast panels have been attached to some parts of the structure. The building is supposed to be finished in December/January. You can see the photos here. (http://www.skyscrapers.com/re/en/im/pc/134385-19-1-2003-6/)


Also, 875 East is very near completion. They have a just little bit more cladding to put on, some interior work to finish, and little odds and ends (laying some new sidewalk, landscaping) and it will be finished. The sign out front said it will be ready in August.

Oh, and construction on Kilbourn Tower has begun. Very basic beginning-of-the-project type stuff so far--dirt has been pushed around and some kind of trench was dug along one side of the site (nothing very exciting or interesting to look at yet).

Originally posted by Markitect

Thanks, Paule.



There are multiple big-name real estate agencies in the area, that may release their annual reports at different times of the year. So perhaps some other agency will release its own report later on this year that would include updated numbers. It might be the reporter only used the most recently released report, the data of which would be using slightly older numbers (since it takes a while to put those things together, theree's a bit of information lag). On the other hand, they might only count current vacancy rates, and may not include things that are currently under construction, or that are soon-to-be under construction, since those spaces are not occupiable yet. I'm not sure how it works.



There are some construction photos of Catherdral Place taken in June at Skyscrapers.com that show the building topped out. The major difference between those pictures and what it looks like now is that some of the glazing and precast panels have been attached to some parts of the structure. The building is supposed to be finished in December/January. You can see the photos here. (http://www.skyscrapers.com/re/en/im/pc/134385-19-1-2003-6/)


Also, 875 East is very near completion. They have a just little bit more cladding to put on, some interior work to finish, and little odds and ends (laying some new sidewalk, landscaping) and it will be finished. The sign out front said it will be ready in August.

Oh, and construction on Kilbourn Tower has begun. Very basic beginning-of-the-project type stuff so far--dirt has been pushed around and some kind of trench was dug along one side of the site (nothing very exciting or interesting to look at yet). [/SIZE]
Well it's about time!@!!

Kilbourn Tower is the building I've been waiting to see! I believe that building will add so much to the skyline!

Thanks for the link to the pics. I was at that site about a month ago and they didn't have those pics up at the time.
Looks like the project is going well!

The Journal Sentinel had a special advertising section a couple of weeks ago called "Condo Living" that featured a great article about Kilobourn Tower (http://specialsections.onwisconsin.com/sections.asp?sesid=60839774&refid=&sec=3794&pg=17) with some renderings.

http://specialsections.onwisconsin.com/newspapers/milwaukeej/sections/030725/001_030725.jpg

http://specialsections.onwisconsin.com/newspapers/milwaukeej/sections/030725/017_030725/113733.jpg

Kilbourn tower looks like it will be a real nice addition to Milwaukee's skyline.

i love Milwaukee i leave the love of my life in Milwaukee, i hope to return sometime in my life. :)

Hi,

If anyone's interested, here are some pics I took when I went to Detroit a while back.

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54913

I have some nice Milwaukee night shots I'll post when I have the time to optimize them :)

I've said it before...


:deadthrea

boo!

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :down:

Some one create a Milwaukee ROT!

:) How about that! The Brewers are finally winning some baseball games. 9 in a row isn't to shabby. I think it is time to give the Brewcrew an :applause: :applause:

It's almost like 1987 all over again.

University Club Tower, the proposed 32-story luxury condo atop the lakefront bluff in Downtown, has received preliminary approval from the Milwaukee City Planning Commission.

The tower remains in the marketing stages, as the developer is looking for more prospectuve buyers before construction can begin.

The site for this tower is immediately next-door to Kilbourn Tower, already under construction (see previous posts above). It is located immediately to the left of Kilbourn Tower in the renderings posted a few messages back.

See the article from today's Journal Sentinel for more details: City planners favor condo tower - Downtown units would be tops in size, price (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/sep03/168209.asp)

http://www.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/apr03/tower01_big.jpg

If this building gets built along with kilbourne tower it will really be a nice addition to Milwaukee's lakefront skyline.

The Brewers are doing great! They have the best offense in the game. Keith Ginter is for real! :applause: But the only decent pitcher on the team is Sheets.

UCT looks good! :eek:

Milwaukee's lakefront will be heating up once again with an invitation-only architectural design competition for the proposed Pier Wisconsin building--a new home for the organization that specializes in Great Lakes and freshwater education.

The original design and location for the new Pier Wisconsin building were heavily debated over the past couple of years. The white colored sail-and-mast-like design elements were criticized for being too derrivative the neighborhing Quadracci Pavillion at the Milwaukee Art Museum. Furthermore, despite its sloping tent-like form, the 90-foot high building was criticized for obstructing views of Lake Michigan. Other design criticisms arose over public access, parking issues, and incoherent reconfiguration of the site at the end of Municipal Pier.

After local philanthropist Michael Cudahay, who was backing the project, threatened to relocate the project to other Wisconsin cities, a 30-year lease agreement was ironed out upon the understanding that the project be redesigned. In addition to aquariums, exhibits, classrooms, labs, and theater/lecture halls, the new proposal will also include a new location for the science education center, Discovery World (one of Cudahay's previous acts of philanthropy), currently located at the Milwaukee Public Museum in Downtown.


The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel announced today that a competition will be held in the coming weeks for a new design for Pier Wisconsin.

Read the article for more details (and check out the archived Pier Wisconsin articles in the sidebar, too): Architects to compete for Pier design - Invitations seek plans for water education facility (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/sep03/169619.asp)

Pictured below are renderings and models of the old design for Pier Wisconsin, which have now been scrapped.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jun03/pierbig0628.jpg

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/feb03/pier2020703.jpg

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/dec02/pierbig121502.jpg

The site on Municipal Pier is the current home for the Pier Wisconsin group, which operates out of the old terminal of the now-defunct Milwaukee Clipper steamship (which used to run between Milwaukee, WI and Muskegon, MI). The old terminal building will be demolished to make way for the new building. Pier Wisconsin has provided facilities to educate vistors about Great Lakes marine life and history. Recently, the group completed the Dennis Sullivan--a replica of a Great Lakes schooner--built from scratch primarily by a group of volunteers (depicted in the renderings above).

Thanks for the posting, Markitect. I finally did read the article, in the actual print version. There were some, ahhh, familiar names dropped in that article. :)

Just thought I'd drop in and see what's new.

Glad to see that University Club Tower is getting closer to being a reality. I don't like the idea that if it's built it will be so close to Kilbourn Tower. Maybe it won't be that big a deal but I wish they could find another plot somewhere else in the vicinity. Would this be possible Markitect?

Anyway here's a new pic for the thread! Familar Wisconsin Ave scene.

http://www.boomspeed.com/paule17/89296713BbtGDp_ph.jpg

Originally posted by Paule
Glad to see that University Club Tower is getting closer to being a reality. I don't like the idea that if it's built it will be so close to Kilbourn Tower. Maybe it won't be that big a deal but I wish they could find another plot somewhere else in the vicinity. Would this be possible Markitect?


Hi Paule. Thanks for stopping by once again (and for your stop over at SSP, too).

University Club Tower is definitely going to be a tight fit between the University Club to the south and Kilbourn Tower to the north--there's not much wiggle room at all.

Relocating UCT to another site in the vicinity is pretty much impossible, considering buyers have staked out their units already, much of the tower has already been reserved, and the developer is in the process of finalizing those deals. Since the buyers have reserved or already confirmed their units on the basis that the tower will be built on the present site, relocating the tower would likely screw up those deals (the buyers wouldn't be getting what they originally agreed to purchase--projects like this are sold almost exclusively on the prestigious location and views). Not to mention the architetcural design of the tower was designed specifically for this site in mind; you can't just take the design and plop it somewhere else, it's too site-specific.

Originally posted by Markitect

Relocating UCT to another site in the vicinity is pretty much impossible, considering buyers have staked out their units already, much of the tower has already been reserved, and the developer is in the process of finalizing those deals. Since the buyers have reserved or already confirmed their units on the basis that the tower will be built on the present site, relocating the tower would likely screw up those deals (the buyers wouldn't be getting what they originally agreed to purchase--projects like this are sold almost exclusively on the prestigious location and views). Not to mention the architetcural design of the tower was designed specifically for this site in mind; you can't just take the design and plop it somewhere else, it's too site-specific.

I understand, thanks. I see these two building as very well designed and each of them by themselves makeing an impact on the skyline. It kind of reminds me of our MAM, Pier Wisconsin debate in that I think these two buildings would serve the skyline better being apart. Oh well!

By the way, I'm glad the Pier Wisconsin is being redesigned after much thought. I just hope they do it in a hurry. This building needs to be built!!!

From what I understand, the architects who will compete for the design have been told to stay away from designs depicting the shape of a boat and also putting height restrictions on them. With the natical compass design haveing failed and with the boat design being asked to stay away from what possible theme can come out of this? This building will serve as the Great Lakes Freshwater center for Learning. I'm afraid all they have left to consider is a four sided box.

I think you underestimate the creativity architects have--especially the some of the ones mentioned in the Journal Sentinel I posted a few messages back. Being familiar with some of their works, I can assure you, if they're involved, we won't be getting a "four sided box"!

The Dept. of City Development knows this is a key project; the Harbor Commission knows it's a key project Pier Wisconsin knows it's a key project; Michael Cudahay knows it's a key project; residents know it's a key project; architects know it's a key project. Nobody is going to settle for a simple box.

The quote from Nortquist in that article is right; it sholdn't look like a boat, we already have a boat--a real one (the Dennis Sullivan), and a building that looks like an abstract boat (the Art Museum). There are ways of making a building for a Great Lakes Freshwater Education Center look spectacular without making it look like a boat, or a box.

The advice from the mayor about developing a design that doesn't look like a boat does not bother me. Nor does the height restriction. I am somewhat concerned of the decision to move the Discover World stuff out of the Public Museum and into the Pier Wisocnsin, though. The program (the stuff that goes inside a building--the spaces and uses) for Pier Wisconsin seems filled with Great Lakes things (labs, exhibits, lecture halls, offices, etc.), and they want to add all the exhibits, lecture halls, etc. from Discovery World into one building. I'm not convinced that is the route to go, but that was the result of the lease negotioations. From what I've read, Discoverey World was thrown into the mix because a) Michael Cudahay was a big sponsor/donor of it in the first place, so it's one of "his babies" along with Pier Wisconsin, and b) they had to add Discovery World into Pier Wiscosnin to make the project feasable--the Great Lakes education center on it's own wouldn't pay for itself.

I think an architetcural competition for the Pier Wisconsin project will bring forth an interesting set of designs, based on who some of the architects are (see article). A building located at such a promoinent location in the city's "front yard" must be carefully designed. I was not a fan of the original design and thought is was far from perfect, less so because it appeared to mimic certain elements of the Art Museum (white colored, mast sturcuture, cables), but because it really did obsturct lake views (the renderings were misleading because they were all taken from viewpoints at which people would never be able to view the building) and the tall, sloping white facades were almost entirely opaque. The facades were 90 feet high--that's the equivalent of plopping a 8-9-story building right on the lakefront and making it essentially non-transparent!

You have made some excellent points Markitect. Especially the fact that the pictured renderings were so that they showed a view of the building that the majority of us would never actually see. Like the pics from out in lake Michigan. I believe the theme of a natical compass can still be done without looking that it is a rip off of the MAM.

This is exciting and I can't wait to see the winning design! I hope we don't have to wait too long!

Oh yeah, the compass inspiration is a good springboard to work with. I like it because it's not quite as literal as designing a maratime museum to look like a boat.

I think we'll be in for some great design concepts with this new competition. Some may run with the compass idea, we probably could even see a boat-is design, and we're likely to see something we've never even thought about before.

The competiton is supposed to close November 15, so the results are quickly approaching.

Here are some Milwaukee ROT's for the forumers that haven't rated them :cool:

US Bank Tower (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?threadid=39080&highlight=milwaukee)
City Hall (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?threadid=22053&highlight=milwaukee)
Faison Building/100 East Wisconsin (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?threadid=42197&highlight=milwaukee)

Naptown, if you have pics of the Milwaukee Center you should do an ROT thread on it! It's my favorite Milwaukee scraper!

Originally posted by Paule

Naptown, if you have pics of the Milwaukee Center you should do an ROT thread on it! It's my favorite Milwaukee scraper!

Well, i took the trouble to upload some pics of Milwaukee Center so i could create a ROT for you Paule, only to find it was already there, just down the list quite a ways. Milwaukee Center ROT (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=928045#post928045) I posted the pics there as a little Bump-a-roonie.

Here is one of them i took last weekend when they had crew races on the Milwaukee River and a Development expo at Pere Marquette Park for all the new condos going up.

http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/MilwaukeeCenter4.jpg

I also added this pano to the Milwaukee Rate Our Skylines (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?threadid=33904&perpage=20&pagenumber=2) :

http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/MAMskylinePano.jpg

Originally posted by MSPtoMKE

I also added this pano to the Milwaukee Rate Our Skylines (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?threadid=33904&perpage=20&pagenumber=2) :

http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/MAMskylinePano.jpg
:applause:

Kick ass pic.

Originally posted by MSPtoMKE
Here is one of them i took last weekend when they had crew races on the Milwaukee River and a Development expo at Pere Marquette Park for all the new condos going up.


Hey, you were down there to check those out too, eh? So was I.

Originally posted by Naptown
Kick ass pic.

Thanks, Naptown. :D Notice the wedding party getting ready to be photographed? Here is another one with them in it, á la Rainier Meadows...

http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/MAM_wedding.jpg

Yep, Markitect, My urban planning prof let us know about the development fair, so i thought i would check it out. The above pic and pano were taken on the same day.

Here is a site model for some condos going in at Commerce and North Ave. (See the crew shell in the model?)
http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/CondoModel1.jpg

...And the individual units
http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/CondoModel2.jpg

And some Crewers (correct term???)!
http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/Crew1.jpg
http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/Crew2.jpg
http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/Crew3.jpg

On a final note, the Milwaukee Rate our Skylines thread seems to have disapeared.... :(

Edited for spelling of Forumer's name...

Originally posted by MSPtoMKE

Thanks, Napptown. :D Notice the wedding party getting ready to be photographed? Here is another one with them in it, á la Rainier Meadows...


Yes, De Snor is fixing it so all the polls are made correctly. MSP what building is that in your avatar?

Oh, goodie, yet another chance to reply! ;)

I am not sure what the name of the building is in my avatar, but i should find out... It is in Chicago, maybe 2 or 3 blocks north of the Sears tower on Wacker Drive. I just think the perspective of the picture is cool. Here is a larger version http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/Wallpaper_Chicago1.jpg (It is big).

It is good to know the ROS thread isnt gone completly, although i dont post a lot on those.

@Naptown: Hint, Hint, edit out the picture URL's when you quote someone ;) (not that i mind letting people have a second chance to see my photos....)

@Naptown: When you are using the Quote feature, please DO NOT repost the images from the message you are quoting!! It bogs down the loading time of the page, especially for users who have slower connection! Regardless, the redundant images are unneccessary!

Please edit out the reposted pictures in your messages above, and keep this in mind for putire posts as well!

Thank you!


@MSPtoMKE: I pretty much spent the entire day down there last Sunday, checking out the River Challenge crew races, as well as the Downtown Housing Expo. I didn't tour any of the developents, but I did grab just about every brochure, pamphlet, and scrap of paper that the developers/real estate agents had available.

I walked up and down the river from about the Humbolt Bridge by the Beerline to he Third Ward. Snapped a few pictures too, but I haven't uploaded them yet. I tired to do a panoramic from the bluffs above the Beerline, but I am not familiar with how to stitch them together, using Photoshop or similar program.

This Sunday's Journal Sentinel featured two point-counterpoint editorials debating the issue of open spcae within the soon-to-be-redeveloped Park East corridor in Downtown Milwaukee. The overbuilt, underutilized Park East Freeway has now been reduced to rubble, which will ultimately turn into 26 acres of prime Downtown real estate ripe for redevelopment.

The Park East is down. Now what? - Plan for more urban open spaces (http://www.jsonline.com/news/editorials/sep03/172732.asp)

The Park East is down. Now what? - Development, open spaces can coexist (http://www.jsonline.com/news/editorials/sep03/172729.asp)

I take the stance described in the second editorial. The corridor has a lot of great potential for new developments and various types of open space. Such spaces don't necessarily have to be in the form of expansive parks (a la Central Park in New York City); they can take the form of hardscaped and softscaped suqares and plazas, smaller parks, treelined boulevards and streets, plus the extension of the RiverWalk (which can be designed to be both hard-edged and natural). The criticism of using all or a portion of the corridor to create a larger park at a time when the County is slashing funding and deferring maintenance on already existing parks throughout the city and county is also a very valid point.


An article from Monday's Business Journal summarizes some of the developments in the Westown section of Downtown that are proposed, underway, or nearing completion.


606 Building (Wisconsin Tower) - Plans for former office building to be converted into apartment and condo units
James Lovell Street warehouse - Yet-to-be-named conversion of warehouse into condo units
Boston Lofts - New condo units above Boston Store's recently remodeled retail and office space
Majestic Building - Office space being converted into condo units
Woolworth Building - Recently rehabilitated office space for redevelopment firm
Milwaukee Theater - Former Milwaukee Auditorium remodeled/reconfigured
Shops of Grand Avenue - Remodeled/reconfigured retail spaces in downtown mall
Amtrak Station - Plans to extensively remodel/upgrade existing Amtrak station into a venue that serves trains and buses
PabstCity - Proposed conversion of former Pabst Brewery complex into a mixed-use enertainment, office, retail, residential district

Read the article for a detailed explanation: Westown rebuilds on residential - Apartments, condos rescue ailing commercial, office district (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2003/09/29/story2.html)

That first article seems very foolish to me. C'mon now, do we REALLY need 26 ACRES of open space in the Park East area? IMO, that would be such a horrible waste of very valueable land. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be any open space, but I think 26 acres is way too much. I like the plan in the second article, I think there be about 3 or 4 blocks of open space.

Originally posted by Markitect

@Naptown: When you are using the Quote feature, please DO NOT repost the images from the message you are quoting!! It bogs down the loading time of the page, especially for users who have slower connection! Regardless, the redundant images are unneccessary!

Please edit out the reposted pictures in your messages above, and keep this in mind for putire posts as well!

Thank you!


@MSPtoMKE: I pretty much spent the entire day down there last Sunday, checking out the River Challenge crew races, as well as the Downtown Housing Expo. I didn't tour any of the developents, but I did grab just about every brochure, pamphlet, and scrap of paper that the developers/real estate agents had available.

I walked up and down the river from about the Humbolt Bridge by the Beerline to he Third Ward. Snapped a few pictures too, but I haven't uploaded them yet. I tired to do a panoramic from the bluffs above the Beerline, but I am not familiar with how to stitch them together, using Photoshop or similar program.
Sorry, I have 56k. I probably should have done that. Thank God those old quote boxes are gone...FOREVER! :okay:

I completely agree with the second editoral. There shouldn't be a debate on whether to have open urban spaces or buildings. Both can be done together and both can help the city in many different avenues. I can't wait to see the final product! Hopefully the city officials can come up with something that won't screw that area up. Until then, we can only wait....

Some of the comment in the first article are indeed valid. The proposed greenspaces for the corridor are on plots of that that are essentially unbuildable because they are too small and irregularly shaped for any kind of development to take place. So the notion of "unbuildable leftovers" seems pretty accurate.

Furthermore, the first article doesn't necessarily suggest turning the entire corridor into a park--it just suggests that more open space be considered than what's proposed.

But like I said before, there are different types of open spaces, aside from grassy, tree-filled parks, that can exist in an urban area--and the first article seems to glaze over that notion. In addition to the urban open spaces I described in my post above, which are mostly public spaces (greet streets, plazas, RiverWalk), there is also the opportunity that developers can create their own open spaces among their developments that could be geared toward private or semi-private use. A landscaped courtyard on the interior of a block is a perfect example--the courtyard acts as an open space within the block, which may be private or publically accessible (there are some good examples of such spaces in the newer developments going up in the Third Ward, as well as the East Pointe developments to the east of the former freeway corridor).

The first article also brings up the idea of visibility and accessability (or possible lack thereof) of the open spaces in the current redevelopment proposal. Visibility and accessability are important issues--and the current plans seem to handle the issue pretty well. Two of the three open spaces are on the west side of the river, one on either side of McKinley Boulevard, which seem to be highly visible and accessible for anybody on foot or in a car. The third open space, Odgen Square--the largest of the open spaces, is right on Water Street, so it is neither unacessable nor obscured from visibility. Sure, people may have to cross a street to get to them, but that's not cutting off access. All three spaces are right on highly-travelled streets (both by cars and eventually by pedestrians), so the low-visibility issue ought to be non-existant. Anybody who doesn't see those open space would have to be blind. It's not like they're hidden from view, they are all on major corners.


Originally posted by djcody

I can't wait to see the final product! Hopefully the city officials can come up with something that won't screw that area up.

City officials can only go so far--they're not the ones who will ultimately propose what gets built, that's up to the developers. I know for a fact that the urban designers and planners working with the City won't approve of any development of low quality in style or character. Likewise, developers aren't likely to propose something lackluster because it won't get approved, and they can make more money with high quality development. We're going to see high quality stuff get built in the corridor. The standard for urban design in the corridor has been set high.

wiscaaaaaaaansin :D

:banana: :banana: :banana:

Yeah, i saw the point - counterpoint in the JS yesterday. It didn't seem to me that the first article was proposing the whole swath of land be turned into a park, only that the author (and acting UWM SARUP dean Nancy Frank) didn't think the current plan called for enough open space. I have not seen the complete plan, so it is hard to say for sure if the plan for open space is well planned. Of course, what i think the first article misses on is that it is not the quantity of open space in the plan, but the quality of it. Certainly, attention should be paid to open space, however.

EDIT: Yeah, so Markitect said some of the same stuff i did, all while i was typing up this monster...

Good news for Westown! (be sure to read the 2nd and 3rd pages of the article, i nearly missed them... :) ) It has always seemed to me that all the focus of downtown is on the East side of the river, even with all the civic and entertainment buildings in Westown. I can't really describe my impression of Westown, but until reading that article, residential didn't really fit into my impression of it. Good deal.

@Markitect (or whoever wants to make a panorama): Yeah, i wandered around a lot last weekend, but i didn't make it as far as the Beerline. It is cool that you tried out a panorama. As for stitching them together, i do 1 of (or a combination of) 2 things. First, my camera came with a program called Canon Photostitch, which i used to use exclusively for panos. As i have become more of a perfectionist, i have moved more to Photoshop to stitch them together (or at least clean up the stitch lines). I did the pano above completely in photoshop, as Photostitch didnt even come close to matching them right. I don't know how much you know about photoshop, but i will attempt to explain it briefly:

First open a new document that is more than big enough to fit all the pictures in (you can crop it later) and paste all your photos in a row. Since they will be on different levels, you can adjust the transparency of the photo on top to get it to line up as close as possible to the photo before it (Think lining up 2 sketches on trace paper). The chances of them lining up perfectly are just about nil, so you will probably have to transform the layers to fit. Go to Edit > Transform > Skew when you have the layer you want selected (and when it is still semi-transparent). Then use the control points at the corners to get them to as close as you can. You may have to use other transform commands like rotate. Finally, it is nice to fade from picture to picture. I use the rectangular marquee tool (looks like a dashed box) and set the feather (located on the top toolbar) to around 20 to 30. Then make a selection around the entire edge (select more than you need to off the edge of the photo). Then press delete. You may have to re-skew the image a bit after this. Then use any other photoshop skills you may have to clean it up further.

Ok, so it takes a little bit of work when you do it in photoshop, but the results are usually better. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions!

----------------
"Longest..... Post...... Ever!" - Comic Book Guy

This Monday the City Plan Commission approved the developer Peter Renner's design for the Harbor Front Condominiums. The proposal is located near the southern tip of the Third Ward, at E. Erie and S. Jackson Streets, along the Milwaukee River.

Renner expects construction on the first phase to begin in 2004 and be completed in 2005. A second phase will follow sometime in the future.

The plans also call for a new RiverWalk segment to be built adjacent to the condo buildings, which will ultimately link up to the rest of the RiverWalk system (which currently ends a few blocks to the north). A pedestrian plaza linking Erie and Jackson Streets to the RiverWalk will be placed between the condo buildings.

The Harbor Front Condos is the latest in a series of developments underway at the southern end of the Third Ward--which consists of mainly new construction (as opposed to primarily warehouse conversions in the northrn part of the neighborhood). A couple blocks away, the second phase of New Land Enterprises' Jefferson Block is under construction; across the street from that, the Mandel Group's Gas Light Lofts is going up. Nearby that, Mandel also has a proposal for the Marine Terminal Lofts along the river.

Renner is also building the Water Front Condos in the Fifth Ward, across the river and upstream from his Harbor Front project.

Check out the article from Monday's Journal Sentinel for specifics: City OKs building of riverfront condos (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/sep03/173551.asp)

Also, from the archives, an article from this past summer announcing the Harbor Front proposal: Condos planned for riverfront - $30 million project's site near Summerfest grounds (http://www.jsonline.com/homes/buy/jun03/149115.asp)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/jun03/eriebig061803.jpg

And the condo boom continues! Those look more like apartments then condo's.
Thanks Markitect!

Originally posted by Paule

Those look more like apartments then condo's.


Just a head's up: condominiums are not a specific building form, rather they are a type of unit/property ownership. Condos can take pretty much any type of residnetial building form, be it detached houses, duplexes, or apartment buildings, low-rises or high-rises.

In other words, condos don't have a "look" to them (which most people don't realize, or just don't know).

Originally posted by Markitect

Just a head's up: condominiums are not a specific building form, rather they are a type of unit/property ownership. Condos can take pretty much any type of residnetial building form, be it detached houses, duplexes, or apartment buildings, low-rises or high-rises.

In other words, condos don't have a "look" to them (which most people don't realize, or just don't know).

I understand that but I know my preference's and if I was going to invest in a condo I would want it to look more like a liveable building than this. I'm only speaking from opinion here, perhaps discribing the building looking like apartments was useing the wrong phrasology. I just don't see thiscondo design as being all that attractive but if I was looking for an apartment in the downtown area and only planned on living there for a few years, it then does look attractive.
I just believe condos should be something alittle more special. :)

Originally posted by motul

wiscaaaaaaaansin :D

:banana: :banana: :banana:
Well, you got the accent down right anyway...:D :D

Here's a few more pics.

Did any of you see the JSoline.com photo contest? I did, here's a few pics I think should have won but didn't! :rant:

A framed Milwaukee City Hall
http://www.onwisconsin.com/contests/snapshots/2003/color/images/061.jpg

A view of inside the City Hall
http://www.onwisconsin.com/contests/snapshots/2003/color/images/358.jpg

Wisconsin Gas reflection off the USBank building
http://www.onwisconsin.com/contests/snapshots/2003/color/images/213.jpg

MAM lakeside
http://www.onwisconsin.com/contests/snapshots/2003/color/images/157.jpg


The photo I think should have won the contest but didn't win anything. My personal favorite Milwaukee building, the MAM with the moon.
http://www.onwisconsin.com/contests/snapshots/2003/color/images/237.jpg

Is there a link to this photo contest from JSOnline?

Originally posted by Markitect

Is there a link to this photo contest from JSOnline?

Sorry Markitect but I can't find it. It was on the site about 4 or 5 days ago.

Originally posted by Paule

Sorry Markitect but I can't find it. It was on the site about 4 or 5 days ago.

Well, that is too bad. If i had known about it, i might have entered. Thanks for showing those pictures of the ones that didn't quite make it.

Found it. (http://www.onwisconsin.com/contests/snapshots/)

Seems the contest was open to pretty much any subject, which might explain why no "city scenes" entries won anything (with the exception of an Art Museum shot that received a "Merit Winner," which wasn't as nice as any of the ones Pulie posted above). Unfortunately city scenes will have some tough competition if they're lumped in with more "artsy" type photos.

Now that's embarrassing. Opps! I thought it was on JSOnline but it was the onMilwaukee.com site. :D

Let this be a warning to you guys, take care of yourself because once you reach 40, your mind goes... :dizzy: :bleh: :crazy:



editted to add these.
I do like the third place winner though. Just something about it that draws me in.
http://www.onwisconsin.com/contests/snapshots/2003/color/images/035.jpg

And I suppose the first place winner is good too. Someone should size it down for an avatar?
http://www.onwisconsin.com/contests/snapshots/2003/bw/images/104.jpg

I leave the fourm for a month and look what happened!!!:cool:


Anyway, some really cool pics there, Paule. Great parting shot of the art museum and the lake. Good to see you back.

Originally posted by Paule

Now that's embarrassing. Opps! I thought it was on JSOnline but it was the onMilwaukee.com site.

Not to worry, that link was posted on the JSOnline site. So no, you weren't seeing things.


Originally posted by Fiddlerontheruf

I leave the fourm for a month and look what happened!!!

Like I've said before, this thread has never been dead, it just gets dormant every so often.

those pics are awesome of MAM,USBank, and City Hall... Who took those? They should be widely reconized!

The pics should have something to do with the city. All of those were pics of people's dogs. :mad2:

And so it begins...

Developers of the now-under construction Kilbourn Tower are clashing with devlopers of the proposed-to-be-next-door University Club Tower, with the City of Milwaukee in the middle.

It seems KT-ers are saying the City is violating an agreement the City made with them when they City approved plans for UCT. What the argument boils down to is the two towers, if both were to go up, would be too close together, and that south-facing units in Kilbourn Tower would have windows that look out at the north-facing blank walls (which happens to be a serive/stair/elevator core, hence the relatively blank walls) of University Club Tower--which also coincidentally cuts off Kilbourn Tower's southern views of Lake Michigan. UCT-ers say "tough cookies, the City hasn't violate anything,we knew you'd bring this up." Meanwhile the City says "we didn't violate any agreements, we'd like to see both towers go up and be successful."

Developers for Kilbourn Tower have asked that University Club Tower be redesigned and/or repositioned on the proposed site so it sits further back from Propsect Avenue, which would allow University Club Tower to still get built, while allowing south-facing Kilbourn Tower residents to have their lake views.

Although I don't know the exact details of KT's agreement with the City, or the specifics on UCT's sitework, repositioning UCT on its site might actually work with a little tweaking of the design (which is a completely different idea than what Paule and I discussed the other day about moving UCT to an entirely different site somewhere in Downtown). Put a nice little landscaped park out front on Prospect Avenue which would become an additional amenity for UCT and KT; residents in both towers get their lake views, and everybody could live happily ever after.

An article from today's Journal Sentinel tracks the drama: Developer warns city to change or move other planned high-rise - Kilbourn Tower challenges design; neighbor to continue with development (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/oct03/174317.asp)

With infrastructure underway to reweave the urban fabric once detroyed by the now-demiolshed elevated Park East Freeway, developers are ready to pounce on the opportuity to grad up more blocks for development.

The City will be holding a series of public meeting in the coming weeks where citizens can address issues and see presentations of the lastest, and hopefully final, drafts of the Renewal (Regulatory) Plan and Master Plan for the redevelopment project. Once the plans are ultimately approved by the County Board and City Council, developers can start making deals.

An article from Friday's Small Business Times discusses the excitement building around rebuilding a huge chunk of Downtown Milwaukee. It also gives some info about how materials from the freeway's demolition are being recycled and put to use in other redevelopment efforts underway and scheduled for the near future in other parts of the city.

Read all about it: Get ready, get set, develop - If market conditions prevail, 'they could be lining up to buy' Park East land (http://www.biztimes.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=currentissue.welcome&display=Special&num=1)


In other news, tug of war between commerical development in Downtown Milwaukee and suburban Waukesha County continues. GE Medical is still pondering sites for relocating its headquarters, which currently resides in Waukesha. Nothing really new since the last time reports came out, and the list of contenders remains pretty much the same:


Downtown Milwaukee - Ovation Plaza, 22-story office building (proposed last Fall) to be built on Water Street (current site of Marcus Center parking structure),
Downtown Milwaukee - A site on Cherry Street, in Park East/Schlitz Park
Wauwatosa - Milwaukee County Research Park, near the Zoo Freeway
Brookfield - A suburban site near Bluemound and Calhoun Roads
Brookfiled - Another site near Bluemound and Calhoun Roads
Menomonee Falls - Heritage Reserve, suburban office park
Oconomowoc - Pabst Farms, a wannabe new urbanist suburban office/residential development


See article for more details: Downtown Milwaukee jumps high for GE Med jobs (http://www.biztimes.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=currentissue.welcome&display=Special&num=2)

Originally posted by Markitect

With infrastructure underway to reweave the urban fabric once detroyed by the now-demiolshed elevated Park East Freeway, developers are ready to pounce on the opportuity to grad up more blocks for development.

The City will be holding a series of public meeting in the coming weeks where citizens can address issues and see presentations of the lastest, and hopefully final, drafts of the Renewal (Regulatory) Plan and Master Plan for the redevelopment project. Once the plans are ultimately approved by the County Board and City Council, developers can start making deals.

An article from Friday's Small Business Times discusses the excitement building around rebuilding a huge chunk of Downtown Milwaukee. It also gives some info about how materials from the freeway's demolition are being recycled and put to use in other redevelopment efforts underway and scheduled for the near future in other parts of the city.

Read all about it: Get ready, get set, develop - If market conditions prevail, 'they could be lining up to buy' Park East land (http://www.biztimes.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=currentissue.welcome&display=Special&num=1)


In other news, tug of war between commerical development in Downtown Milwaukee and suburban Waukesha County continues. GE Medical is still pondering sites for relocating its headquarters, which currently resides in Waukesha. Nothing really new since the last time reports came out, and the list of contenders remains pretty much the same:


Downtown Milwaukee - Ovation Plaza, 22-story office building (proposed last Fall) to be built on Water Street (current site of Marcus Center parking structure),
Downtown Milwaukee - A site on Cherry Street, in Park East/Schlitz Park
Wauwatosa - Milwaukee County Research Park, near the Zoo Freeway
Brookfield - A suburban site near Bluemound and Calhoun Roads
Brookfiled - Another site near Bluemound and Calhoun Roads
Menomonee Falls - Heritage Reserve, suburban office park
Oconomowoc - Pabst Farms, a wannabe new urbanist suburban office/residential development


See article for more details: Downtown Milwaukee jumps high for GE Med jobs (http://www.biztimes.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=currentissue.welcome&display=Special&num=2)

I'll keep my fingers crossed for Ovation Plaza!

By the way, what ever happen to that proposal for the 24 story office tower on E Wisconsin?

Originally posted by Paule

By the way, what ever happen to that proposal for the 24 story office tower on E Wisconsin?

No anchor tenant for that tower yet.

Originally posted by Markitect

GE Medical is still pondering sites for relocating its headquarters, which currently resides in Waukesha. Nothing really new since the last time reports came out, and the list of contenders remains pretty much the same:


* Downtown Milwaukee - Ovation Plaza, 22-story office building (proposed last Fall) to be built on Water Street (current site of Marcus Center parking structure)


Just a little bit more on this proposal...

Irgens Development Partners and the Marcus Center floated the Ovation Plaza proposal, but an anchor tenant must be found before any progress is made.

Last I heard, they were still kicking around ideas for the tower (mixed-use versus office, etc.), and the architetcural design hasn't been solidified. I managed to find a small rendering of something that was on the drawing boards, that hadn't been published in any of the usual newspapers I use for sources:

http://cdx.xceligent.com/attachments/914/460914_tn.jpg

If GE Medical would agree to reloccate its headquarters to Ovation Plaza, that would likely be the catalyst that would get this tower going.

[SIZE=1]Originally posted by Markitect

And so it begins...



I had a pretty good feeling it was going to begin! I asked you about your opinion about this days ago but even I didn't understand all the details about this. I just knew the developers of the Kilbourn Tower wasn't going to like this. It'll be interesting how this all will play out because it sounds like the UCT is further along then most people thought. I believe this is probably why FREDI has brought this up at this point in time. For the UCT to have 35 reservations out of the planned 52 units is impressive, is it not?

Although I don't know the exact details of KT's agreement with the City, or the specifics on UCT's sitework, repositioning UCT on its site might actually work with a little tweaking of the design (which is a completely different idea than what Paule and I discussed the other day about moving UCT to an entirely different site somewhere in Downtown). Put a nice little landscaped park out front on Prospect Avenue which would become an additional amenity for UCT and KT; residents in both towers get their lake views, and everybody could live happily ever after.


Yes, that park idea sounds like a perfect compromise. I don't see this controversey lasting too long unless the people in charge start acting like big babies! There's definatly room for both sides to give a little and to be happy.

Originally posted by Markitect



Just a little bit more on this proposal...


I like the design so far but then again I love glass towers. It is the main reason why I like the Cathedral Square Tower so well.

Good job on finding and posting a rendering for this building Markitect!:)
I notice that the rendering shows only like 15 or 16 floors? I do understand it is only a draft.
Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best!

Great thread. I've been to Milwaukee once to see the Cubs play, and I liked it.

BTW: Here is the new Milwaukee ROS, http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=945795#post945795

EDIT

Sorry, my comp. is screwed up. Delete this

Holy crap...this is still here?? Wow, I've been out of the loop. Hey guys! How goes it?

Originally posted by CG5

Holy crap...this is still here?? Wow, I've been out of the loop. Hey guys! How goes it?

Of course this is still here! It will never die! And how goes it your self, CityGod? Settling into the college life yet? It is crazy that we go to the same school, and havent met yet. we should meet up sometime. What tower of Le Château Sandburg are you living in? I am in East Tower, because i am most likely going to study abroad next semester (Milan!), and i didn't want to get an apartment for only 1 semester.

South Tower, or "Le Torre de Elevatores Shittes". :bleep:

But I practically live in East Tower. My friends are all there. :)

An article in Tuesday's Journal Sentinel describes one of Milwaukee's lastest condo proposals, named 100 Seeboth, for the Walker's Point neighborhood. The proposal brings condo design in the city to a whole new and different level, having been designed by New York City's Tod Williams Billie Tsien & Associates (which recently won an award for the American Folk Art Museum in New York).

The site is a prime location at the bend in the Milwaukee River, south of Downtown; the building would act as a visual terminus for S. 1st Street. It would contain eight condo units, plus some offices, a restaurant, plus a RiverWalk/boat docks. The warehouse that currently sits on the site would be demolished to make way for the new building.

As for the architectural design, it is very "different" to say the least.

Have a look through the article for more:
Condos on river entice New York architects - 2002 architectural prizewinner would design $20 million building (http://www.jsonline.com/homes/build/oct03/175305.asp)

The rendering below looks north, showing the front and side facades, prominently located along W. Seeboth and S. 1st Streets.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/oct03/condabig100603.jpg


The model pictured below looks south; the glassy facade overlooks the bend in the river.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/oct03/condbbig100603.jpg


This is an extemely poor design for an extrememly great site! The plain blank concrete walls simply make this building look very uninviting and very very urban-unfriendly because it turns its back to the street.

I am curious to see what the City has to say about this design. I doubt they'd go for it without some overhauls, and I can't say I'd blame them.

That model makes it look like an office building right out of the 1970's, with its vertical mullions and floor to ceiling glass. The rendering looks more up to date, but not that great. I think that it would end up looking a lot more like the model than the rendering, though. The idea of the glass box rising out of the concrete box doesn't read at all from the river side that is depicted in the model, not that it is great from the other side, either.

Wow...I couldn't agree less. I think that this condo building looks very cool...I don't think that the model does it justice...wood can't go glass and concrete justice, I don't think. I'll have to wait and see more on this project before I form a solid opinion of it. But as of right now, it sure as hell beats the design for Ovation Plaza.

Wow, i check this site every other day, and now i can't keep up with all the replys and such. Hey CG5!! Nice to see ya again. I think we have a forum boom goin on... hehehe. Thanks Markitect for the proposed Ovation Plaza pic!! You sure know how to keep us informed.

Originally posted by CG5

Wow...I couldn't agree less. I think that this condo building looks very cool...I don't think that the model does it justice...wood can't go glass and concrete justice, I don't think. I'll have to wait and see more on this project before I form a solid opinion of it. But as of right now, it sure as hell beats the design for Ovation Plaza.

The most important rule of design when doing a project in an urban setting is never ever EVER turn the building's back on the street. Never give it a blank wall. As sketched out so far, 100 Seeboth violates that rule big time. Such a fundamental rule is valid even moreso for this site, because it terminates the view of S. 1st Street, AND that south-facing facade overloks a nice litle triangular-shape piece of land across the street that could be put to use as a small greenspace (which will inevitably happen once the neighbrohood picks up steam). It would be essential to have windows overlooking the public realm ("eyes on the street" makes a place safer), but all that's offered with this current design is a few windows at the corners (a cool effect, but I think some punched openings would go in those massive concrete walls).

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that the architecture "pushes the envelope" for what we normally see in Milwaukee, but there are some fundamental things I see wrong with the design.

And for the record, I agree that Ovation Plaza could use some work, too (but that rendering didn't really give a good sense of anything really, it's much too far away to show any critical street-level details).

I agree that the rendering looks better than the model. But i think that is because the rendering shows the front, which is more interesting and dramatic than the back, which faces the river. I am trying to picture what the concrete and glass w/ mullions will look like, and i am envisioning something like this:
http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/70sStuff.jpg
(Bonus!: who can name the building that this picture is the subject of? Markitect, no spoiling it for everyone else ;) )

Anyways, i just don't like the design of the back, it needs work. The front could be interesting, though

I can name one of the buildings in that pic, MtoM. The building on the left is 875 on the Lake. This being said, I think that it's obvious that I know exactly which building your pic focuses on...however, I can't think of its name for the life of me...largely because it's just another address. And as for applying that hulk to the new building...I think the new building will be a little more...um...graceful. Especially if the concrete walls are painted instead of left bare.


I understand what you're saying Markitect, but I'm not sure how bad the blank wall will be. From the way I see it, the openings in the corners will be quite large. And punching random holes in the concrete, as seems to be fashionable these days, usually looks pretty damn ugly...I'd like to see that avoided. As I said before, I'll need to see more of the building before I decide whether I really like it or not. But for now, it looks cool.


Then again, I am but a lowly freshman, and you are both my superiors. ;)

Hello. Another Milwaukee 'burbs guy. I like this thread for sure. Being away from home, its great to come here and find out the latest, up-to-date info on whats going on and what is being developed or thought of here in Milwaukee. Sure miss it at times.

Well on the 100 Seeboth, I must give the architect some credit for designing something daring and different then what we see here. The back side looks like it could work. But I'm not totally sure on that front though. It looks like its closing itself off to the street. Not good.

I must say the pictures are great by all of you guys. I'm using some of them as wallpaper.

About the MAM, my family went there this past weekend to walk through it and they were impressed. And they also saw quite a few foreign tourists also. She said there were some Japanese and Dutch people who were touring the place and my grandma talked to some Brits who included the 90 minute trek from Chicago to take a look at the addition. I think the attraction is working.

Well I hope to talk more in this thread.

Originally posted by CG5

From the way I see it, the openings in the corners will be quite large. And punching random holes in the concrete, as seems to be fashionable these days, usually looks pretty damn ugly...I'd like to see that avoided.

Woah, hold on there! " Punched openings" means putting window openings in the solid wall (as opposed to placing a window opening to fill the entire space between two columns, for example)--which doesn't mean they'd necessarily be placed randomly (I hate it when they're just random; I like some sense of coherency!).

Originally posted by benscrape

Hello. Another Milwaukee 'burbs guy. I like this thread for sure. Being away from home, its great to come here and find out the latest, up-to-date info on whats going on and what is being developed or thought of here in Milwaukee.

Hi. It's sort of a tradition of us Milwaukee forumers to keep a huge Milwaukee thread going. This one's sort of a free-for-all in which we cover anything and everything Milwaukee (photo tours, development news, the occassional sports, or other general event type stuff). Of course, feel free to start other topics if you want too.

We may as well invite you over to another similar Forum at a different website, too, since we all migrate back and forth: The SkyScraper Page Forum (or SSP) (http://skyscraperpage.com/forum). That one is more active with Americans, whereas here at SckyScraper City (SSC), it's more non-American oriented.

Feel free to check out both, because some stuff gets talked about over there more than it does here, and vice versa.

Plans to convert the former Pabst Brewery complex into a vibrant mixed-use district called PabstCity are starting to pick up steam. The Journal Sentinel reports developers have filed a request to raze a few unusable and/or undesirable buidings on the property to make way for new builidings and amenities.

Developers are also working at signing some major anchor tenants for the project. Since February, developers have received letters of intent from five tenants expressing interest in leasing space in the redevelopment (a Hofbrauhaus microbrewery, House of Blues, and three unnamed businesses). Developers are working at converting those leters of intent into definite leases.

See what's on tap in the article: Developers seeking approval to raze some Pabst buildings (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/oct03/176012.asp)

One of the Urban Planning Dept. Smart Growth Lectures is going to be on the redevelopment of Pabst City. November 12th, at noon. But i am sure you already knew that, Markitect :) I know i will be going. Sounds promising, thanks for the link.

Aw, fuck. Wednesdays are the worst. Can somebody tape it for me? :(

I have nothing to tape it with. Unless you want low quality 30 second clips from my digital camera. Anyways, it is still a month off. Plenty of time to prepare for whatever class you will have to skip. :)

Developers of Lafayette Place have decided to drop their plans--they have been unable to secure financing to make the proposal a reality.

The Lafayette Place proposal was a 32-story, 139-unit condo tower located in a dense low-rise neighborhood on Milwaukee's East Side. It had gone through a few design iterations in order to try to satisfy neighborhood concerns about placing a high-rise in the middle of a low-rise neighborhood. But with other condo developments popping up all over the city, both high-rise and low-rise, Lafayette developers were also weary about flooding the market. They will attempt to develop the vacant lot with something else in the future.

Read all about it from the Journal Sentinel: Plans are dropped for condos on east side (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/oct03/176322.asp)

I'm actually not disappointed this one has been dropped, as a high-rise was never really suitable for that neighborhood.

Yeah, not all that surprising. Its a looooong way from the rest of the condo towers. Well, not that far, but still not exactly the best spot for a highrise.

Wu, who operates East Garden Chinese Restaurant, 3600 N. Oakland Ave., Shorewood, said he still hopes to eventually develop the vacant lot, which is owned by Wu and his wife.

Yep, i have seen the renderings of the tower in that restaurant. Pretty good food :)

Wednesday

11:00 am-12:15 pm - Worlds Apart (an Honors class on Utopias)
12:20 pm-12:55 pm - Lunch
1:00-1:50 pm - Arch 100
2:00-5:00 pm - Work (Hey, did I mention I work at the Resource Center?)
**Twenty minute break!**
5:30-6:45 pm - Urban Studies

Then I rush back to Sandburg to catch the tail end of dinner so I don't have to go to the Greasy Gardens, and then hole up in my room with my homework. Wenesdays are hectic days...

Originally posted by CG5
Then I rush back to Sandburg to catch the tail end of dinner so I don't have to go to the Greasy Gardens, and then hole up in my room with my homework. Wenesdays are hectic days...

What, you're kidding, the Palm Garden was great, ESPECIALLY on nights when a late supper is unavoidable and you're already at the dorms! I miss that place!

There's always the Gasthaus. Mmmmm...

Yeah, it's great if you're not trying to lose weight. Ew, you made me rhyme. And what kind of loser goes to the Gasthaus alone?

Hold on...I've probably just offended someone. :)

Heh...I was just reading this thread's earlier pages. I got to 9. There are A LOT of posts
in this thread. Anyway, I was reading the part about the religious building models for Arch
100...by the way, those are due this Wednesday. And all I have to say about that is : Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh!!!!

I cannot, for the LIFE of me, figure out how I'm gonna build the frickin' Pyramid of the Moon.
Angles, angles, everywhere! It sucks. I want to cry. Well, not really.

And MtoM - in that picture where you were on the website for a day or whatever...that girl
in the pic with you, that's Kristy! She was my group leader on orientation the first day.
She's a riot.

Yep, Kristi is pretty cool. I had forgotten that she was a group leader.

Yeah, i am sure the model you have to build seems impossible, so did mine, but i got it done. I had a Buddhist temple with lots of angles, and ended stacking a lot of layers. See:
http://www.boomspeed.com/atucker7/ArunSmall.jpg

Does it have to be all white, or only made out of museum board, or what? I am not sure i can give you any pointers on building the Pyramid of the Moon, but i have climbed the real thing, along with the Pyramid of the Sun. Are you going to model it in its "like new" state? But, anyways, you might want to get started on that :)

I think i have actually seen you in the resource center. I thought the person at the desk looked like a picture that you posted...

Cool, you are in the honors program, too. The upper level seminars are more interesting than the 200 level classes, that i have taken anyways.

I'm the only non-Indian dude you'll ever see behind the RC desk, so yeah, that's me. :)

As for the model, I'll be posting pics tomorrow when I finish. I may need to pull an all-nighter, but it'll get done, that's for damn sure. It's 11:19 pm on Monday and I've got two wall pieces done! There are 9 per section, and three basic sections. That's 27 pieces I wanted to get done tonight...hm...not sure that's gonna happen. But yeah, tomorrow I need to finish and then do the REALLY hard part - the front. Stairs, stairs, everywhere. It's definately do-able though. I just needed to stop spazzing for a moment to figure that out.

MtoM - WOW, nice model. It certainly looks more complicated than mine. I am doing it "like new," btw. It'd be next to impossible to do all those teeny little steps in scale. Markitect - do you have pics of your model from Arch 100??

Ok, now I gtg get some work done. Peace out, dudes.

Plans to revitalize the Milwaukee Amtrak Station picked up steam when the Wisconsin Department of Transportation and a development group known as Milwaukee Intermodal Partners signed a contract creating a public/private partnership for the project. Discussions about revitalizing the station have been ongoing for several years--first in the late-1990s by the previous owner (those plans fell through); and more recently by WisDOT, the present owner of the building.

In addition to some much needed cosmetic improvements, the building is intended to become an intermodal station, primarily served by trains (Amtrak service, as well as the proposed Metra extension and high-speed rail), buses (local, regional, and national). Pedestrian and bicycle amenities are also being considered. The developers are in talks with Greyhound and Badger bus operators to relocate thier terminals (both of which are just a few blocks away, across the street from one another) to the Amtrak station.

The station's exterior will receive a major facade overhaul and new canopied entrances/bus loading areas.

The station's interior will be reconfigured to accommodate additional ticket counters (for trains and the buses, and car rentals) and a few small retail spaces (the restaurant that used to be in the station was closed a few years ago and replaced by a wall of vending machines). The waiting areas will feature improved displays of schedules fro trains, buses, and flights at Mitchell Field (where a new station is being built).

The $3.9 million project is expected to be completed in 2005.

All aboard, to the WisDOT press release: Contract signing is first step in turning Amtrak Station into "Gateway to Milwaukee" (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/news/news/2003general/opa-milwaukeeamtrak345.htm)

Pictured below is a preliminary rendering of the remodeled Milwaukee Amtrak Station.

http://www.pmainc.com/images/amtrack_03.jpg

Its good to hear that the State has come to a decision about what to do with the Marquette Interchange. I was beginning to wonder what was going to happen. Good to hear we are moving foward !

Wow, glad to hear they're revamping the amtrack station. Looks nice. The old one looks like crap

WOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOO! The Pyramid of the Moon is complete. This is a wonderful day for me, to be sure. Here are some pics of my recently completed model (put together on my first real "all-nighter".) This beeotch took me seventeen consecutive hours to build, but boy it feels good to be done. (Btw, the 17 was just construction. I spent about 6 hours researching this ever-so-obscure building in the campus library.)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid83/p0411334b0c44559f346087259aac0747/fad1a28b.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid83/p00041557faf353be7875c378f60599ee/fad1a291.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid83/pe79b05928a81cd9858e21aaa1c44ebf7/fad1a29a.jpg

Btw, for all you UWM types, these are, obviously, pre-foam core mounting. But hey - you get the jist.


And as for Amtrak, I guess this is deserves a "yay." I mean, the re-design is completely lackluster, but as Markitect said, at least it's better than the architectural dunder we have now. That thing is a disaster inside and out.

I went on a rampage today after work. Here are some pics of the models lined up all over the SARUP Building here at UW Milwaukee. Every one of the 430-some students in Arch-100 had to build a scale model of a religious structure (assigned, not chosen) out of either museum board (think high-grade, 2- or 4-ply poster board) or basswood (think really thin wood.) Now all 430-some models are lined up and down the first two floors. Enjoy!


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/pf520c8f7b9109dc4418fc02809b0bfb3/faceab8b.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/p5bd579fcba171fcd77bbe8cd560dfdd3/faceab87.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/p5038ba9d43f85282cea973b85ee89c1c/faceab82.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/p1bdb0ac99781dca7fa8a538c0e52ac99/faceab7a.jpg

My building is the one in the middle.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/p355389edd75bcf40379b63c4c1b0b03a/faceab77.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/pb95d608b3a18ab784d8d5c97e3ab4192/faceab74.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/p6c8176ed3d7e1724f53a5b1881c23568/faceab71.jpg

One of my personal favorites..."NSAF Chapel - Post WWIII" (Read: I'm a lazy-ass. Here are my pieces.)
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/p8b27ce1566bfbdb270bb12a3dd5c3abd/faceab6d.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/p971cd9b123a8f5049a47b6511fa43526/faceab67.jpg

Baha'ai Shrine in wood...
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/p4fe973ba1c92d1cf2553f25ec912ea4a/faceab2f.jpg

...and in museum board.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/p8ab7d6204e536f3514cfda222fb95bae/faceab58.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/p04ad92ae420f3a214339063fc3cab17b/faceab52.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/pcc780780afccc235802f614c02c0bb83/faceab40.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/pc40872af13ca90ea0b33d58a66e0df62/faceab3b.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/p2df18e3d12bd39c0fb076d4fe1e24f17/faceab38.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/p8ec19b6200fce7ec97fc334d92b3b73d/faceab2c.jpg

Why bother?
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/p32b26213bd821d8281f045b45d4db21c/faceab4b.jpg

A very good model of one of Rafael Moneo's Church of Our Lady of Angles in LA...I love this building, and this model does plenty of justice to it.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/p71cd6b36c40ace29ea3a3b6d09611cec/faceab28.jpg

Another view of the Moneo building...
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/pd731497ffc9d170ee753f9265ce706df/faceab6a.jpg

Another pic of my model of the Pyramid of the Moon;
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/pd2ee1190cf0a7c1da8075615495db61f/faceab60.jpg

And the other two models built by two different students.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/pc72cae0948373eb9034984fc603879ee/faceab63.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/pc1d7e5e22503be9c4915ad5a634b18a5/faceab46.jpg

(Yes, seriously.)

Yep, there is always a range in the quality. Yours is quite nice, CG5, i was able to find it. There are also two amazing ones of Angor Wat, one of which you pictured, among the other really good ones. Yesterday, Gil Snyder was giving his 200 level students crits outside my studio, and one poor guy was working on his amazingly intracate 100 model while the crits were going on. Yep, 2 models due on the same day, i felt so sorry for him. He had a blister on his middle finger like you wouldn't beleive from cutting so much museum board. But wow, 430 students??? :eek: I thought my 100 class of around 300 was big!

Amtrak. Yes that is a huge improvement, but nothing particularly special. Blah Blah, its been said before. Anyways, it is good that they are working on developing it into an intermodal station for Greyhound, etc. That with the new station near Mitchell sound like good news to me.

An open house for the Pier Wisconsin architectural competition was held this Thursday, as described in the Journal Sentinel. Represnetatives from three out of the five firms in the competition were on hand to answer questions and/or describe their design concepts so far. The competition is still underway, and the due date is expected in mid-November (thus, no renderings to show).

A few of the firms, Kubala Washatko and Eppstein Uhen, describe what they have in mind.

See the artcile for more info: Ideas floated for Pier Wisconsin - Open house along lakefront brings out architects, public (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/oct03/179667.asp)

Today's Business Journal reports growing concerns from Brewers Hill residents about a proposal for some new condominum buildings in the neighborhood.

Over the past few years, Tandem Devlopers has created Brewers Hill Commons throughout a few blocks in the neighborhood. Their efforts include converting former factory buildings into lofts, several twonhouse buildings, and even some single-family detached housing--138 units built or under construction as part of the development right now. Tandem's latest proposal is for 217 more units, including a some tall-ish buildings for the neighborhood, in the form of a 6-story and 5-story building (the article judiciously uses the term "towers"), some more low-rise townhouses, and some more signle-family houses.

Residents have expressed concerns about the number of units, size/height of the buildings and their placement on the blocks, as well as parking issues.

Have a read through the article for more information: Brewers Hill residents blunt condos (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2003/10/27/story3.html?page=1) (be sure to scroll all the way down, it's a two-pager)

Also browse through the Brewers Hill Commons website. (http://www.brewershillcommons.com/)

Hmm... "Towers"? I'm not sure if thats the correct term to use for a 6-7 story building. Note: a bit of sarcasm, hehe. I think the proposed building would add depth and character to the neighborhood. But hey, i'm only one opinion. :)

Hi all,

I posted some pics of milwaukee I took last night:
here :cool: (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68056)


Feel free to check it out :)

Once again, a hotel proposal is being floated for a site across the street from the Midwest Airlines Center (convention center) at W. Wisconsin and N. 4th Street--which is currently a surface parking lot. Two previous attempts to build a hotel on the site never materialized.

This time around, Sheraton is considering putting a 6-story, 253-room hotel on the site (which is smaller than the previous two proposals which were at 350 and 300 rooms). Developers are saying there isn't much demand for anything larger at the moment (plus some other hotels have expanded or opened up since those previous proposals were made). Meanwhile, some others in the hotel and convention industry are questioning the reduced size of the current Sheraton proposal.

The proposal also includes meeting space, a restaurant, health club, and swimming pool.

If financing is secured, the Sheraton could break ground in spring, and the expected 10-12 month scedule could even be opene for the large NAACP Convention in 2005.

Read through the Journal Sentinel article for more details: Hotel planned to complement Midwest Airlines Center - Sheraton may help Milwaukee attract more conventions (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/nov03/184819.asp)

shucks, I was hoping somthing tall and mixed use would get built there. thats some pime realestate. are they still trying to build a movie theater there on that block too?

Originally posted by jiveturkey

shucks, I was hoping somthing tall and mixed use would get built there. thats some pime realestate. are they still trying to build a movie theater there on that block too?

Marcus Corp hase been looking for sites to possibly build a downtown movie theater, and the site at 4th and Wisconsin was a possibility, but they've not made a decision, as far as I've heard (and from what I've heard, that site is kinda cramped for the spatial requiremetns of what's demanded for a multi-screen movie theater).

If the hotel goes up there (the City has wanted a hotel to go on that site for 15-20 years), then a theater would likely have to go somewhere else (but there's plenty of room elsewhere Downtown if that happens). Another possibility is to incorporate a theater on the lower levels and hotel above (and that requires the additional challenge of just the movie theater by itself plus someone with enough financial backing to make it happen).

Something mixed-use would be ideal (and the current hotel proposal is somewhat mixed-use, with a restaurant and hotel). I'm less concerned about having "a tall building" proposed there, than I am about the design of whatever ultimately gets proposed there. A hotel with more rooms would be great--but it doesn't make sense to build a bigger hotel if there's no demand one.

I'd rather see a nicely designed 6-story hotel get built there than to let the land sit as a surface parking lot, across from the convention center (in other words, starving the city and convention center from something it really needs--hotel rooms), for who knows how long in hopes of having a "tall building" get proposed.

Originally posted by jiveturkey

shucks, I was hoping somthing tall and mixed use would get built there. thats some pime realestate. are they still trying to build a movie theater there on that block too?

That's exactly what I was hoping for too. It's hard to believe that just 253 rooms is going to be enough. When it comes to national conventions Milwaukee simply just doesn't have the hotel rooms to be competitive. I've seen the numbers and Milwaukee is behind. Besides all you have to do is ask all the thousands of bikers who had to reserve hotel rooms hundreds of miles away because the Milwaukee area was booked solid.

Hi Markitect how yah doin?

Have you heard anything about the Pier Wisconsin project yet? If not, we all should be hearing something next week, right.

Proposals for the design competition are supposedly due tomorrow, Saturday November 15; but that doesn't mean we'll see or hear anything about them right away. Hopefully, though, we will.

a few condos/apartments on top of the hotel would be nice. who wouldnt want to live on wisconsin avenue across the street from the grand avenue mall. Im sure some more residential would help revitalize both. I think the conversion of the wisconsin tower, boston lofts and majestic building to residential might also help attract people as they start to see west town as more of a mixed use nieghborhood. I saw a massing on some milwaukee development site (you guys probably have already ssen it) that showed a movie theater on the site with a plaza in the north west corner and a tower with some kind of combination of office hotel and residence. was this just a pipe dream of the city?

but your right, 6 stories is better than a parking lot

Originally posted by jiveturkey

but your right, 6 stories is better than a parking lot

I reluctantly agree.

Originally posted by jiveturkey
I saw a massing on some milwaukee development site (you guys probably have already ssen it) that showed a movie theater on the site with a plaza in the north west corner and a tower with some kind of combination of office hotel and residence. was this just a pipe dream of the city?

That wasn't an actual building proposal, rather it was just a diagramatic sketch in the Milwaukee Downtown Plan of what hypothetically could be done on that site with a combination theater/hotel/office/parking garage. It is much easier to come up with suggestive imagery like that than it is to actually follow through with such a thing though, as real poropsals are driven and limited by the market, money, economy, etc.

Regarding a downtown movie theater:
I attended one of SARUP's Smart Growth lectures on wednesday. The topic was on the redevelopment of the Pabst Brewery complex. The current plan is to have an entertainment theme for the whole complex, and the proposal includes a movie theater for the most northwestern block. From what i gathered, it would be stadium seating, and the speaker said something about 18 (!) screens. Seems a bit overscaled to me. Anyways, i was planning on taking some pics of the current brewery complex tomorrow, ans starting a thread on this big proposal. Don't hold your breath though. ;)

hey msp, what arch classes are you taking at uwm? Im taking some arch and urban planning classes there for the spring semester and im trying to decide which ones.

Originally posted by MSPtoMKE

Regarding a downtown movie theater:
I attended one of SARUP's Smart Growth lectures on wednesday. The topic was on the redevelopment of the Pabst Brewery complex. The current plan is to have an entertainment theme for the whole complex, and the proposal includes a movie theater for the most northwestern block. From what i gathered, it would be stadium seating, and the speaker said something about 18 (!) screens. Seems a bit overscaled to me. Anyways, i was planning on taking some pics of the current brewery complex tomorrow, ans starting a thread on this big proposal. Don't hold your breath though. ;)

Yeah. The PabstCity development area is probably the best spot for a downtown movie theater, as there is quite a bit of room there to accommodate such a space, once the unusuable parts of the complex are demolished. Plus, a theater fits in well with the entertainment venue the developers are hoping to create (especially with the possibility of a House of Blues, a brewery museum, and Hofbauhaus brewpub/restaurant).

The site at Wisconsin Avenue and 4th Street wouldn't be able to handle an 18-screen theater--it would only be able to handle a few screens, and therefore wouldn't be very competitive against the suburban multi-screen theaters. An 18-screen theater at PabstCity, however, could do quite well, and would be more in line with what the suburban multi-plexes have to offer.

Cool, another UWM student! What year are you in school? CG5 and Markitect are also students here.

I am taking Arch 410 (studio), Arch 301 Architectural Technologies, and Urban Planning 315, Planning for Great Cities. 410 and 301 are only open to people in level II, however. Have you taken 100 and 101?

I would be a sophmore but I took a year and a half off after highschool to start a bike company so I applied as an adult/special student. I guess I would be on a freshman level. I was thinking of arch 101 and 100 but I dont think 100 is offered this semester. whats 101 like? I was also thinking about urban planning 141.

Good to hear, jiveturkey. I sent you a Pivate Message with more detailed answers to your questions. Anyways, welcome. I would recommend registering at www.Skyscraperpage.com, but it is down right now, and registering there can be a bit tricky.

Markitect, yes the person from WisPark who talked about the Pabst City project talked about the project being not only a regional draw from several counties, but also filling in a void in large theaters in the city itself. So it could provide a good alternative to going to the suburbs like Mayfair theater (I admit i go there with my roommates fairly frequntly), but i would hope it wouldn't put the smaller theaters in the city out of business. But you already knew that ;)

I think the smaller theaters (the ones with only a single-screen or a very small handfull of screens) would be safe, because they usually cater to a different audience (artsy, foreign films, independent films, etc.), than the large multi-screens in suburbia or being considered for PabstCity, which cater to the more mainstream audiences and movies.

You go all the way out to Mayfair, eh? What about Flicks at the dorms; does that still exist? Movies for free, man; second-run movies, but movies for free!

True, a place like the Oriental would probably not be in danger, but i think a place like Prospect Theaters would get a run for their money.

Yep, i live with 2 movie buffs. Not that i have to tag along with them, but if there is a movie i want to see, we usually end up going to Mayfair. Heck, i'd much prefer going to the Oriental. I do take advantage of free movies as well :) The dorms has its own room with beanbags chairs, etc. especially for movies now, for free.

Yup, thats Flicks. I saw Pirates of the Carribean there the other week. Pretty nice place. Good times, good times.

I voiced my opinion on the hotel in the other thread, but I was a bit too breif in my explanation. Paule is right--we DO need more hotel rooms to be competative in the convention market...I was shocked when the NAACP decided to come here. 250-some rooms just isn't going to do much. Yes, it's something, but not enough. Of course, I don't know too much about the hotel market, so I can't say one way or another how the market is here, but the only times I've EVER heard people talk about the situation has been when they're complaining about it. That says something to me.

As for the architecture, we're in Milwaukee. When you're talking six-stories, you're talking bland. That's just kind of the way it goes. Milwaukee firms seem to be stuck in a rut...an uber-historicism rut, that is. You'l get a lousy brick block with a cheap PoMo cornice and maybe an arched entryway. Yipee. Look at the other hotels in the area; the Holiday Inn, the Ramada...crappy brick lowrises. And you want that across the street from the convention center?

Once this hotel is built, it won't be coming down. At least not for a long time. We're talking about a very permenant structure. A very permenant, most likely very ugly structure, at a very important site. What does it say to visitors if we plunk a crapper on prime real estate in the heart of downtown? Honestly, I'd rather the site stay a parking lot until something worthy of the site is proposed. It's not about height...it's about quality. And you probably won't see quality in this type of building.

But I suppose that this is a little preemptive of me, isn't it? I'll wait until we know more to get all preachy. ;)