Hey guys, Milwaukee isn't the only city in Wisconsin talking about building a hotel downtown. Check out the Wausau paper! Click on the link for the front page rendering.

http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/frontpage/frontpage.PDF


By Kyle Gearhart
Wausau Daily Herald
kgearhar@wdhprint.com

The city of Wausau and the developers of a downtown hotel signed the final financing agreement Friday, one day before the city's Saturday deadline.

Developers Compass Properties and Inn Development & Management announced Thursday that they had secured financial backing for the $14 million project.
Demolition of several buildings on the 300 block of Second Street will begin in February with construction to begin in the spring. The project includes a 62-room hotel and a restaurant and is scheduled to be completed by April 2005.

The city is expected to contribute about $3.3 million to the project, or a total of $4 million, including loan interest. The money will be used to provide infrastructure and other accommodations. River Valley State Bank is the lead lender for the project's private developers.

"The hotel is very much a capstone to downtown development," said Mark Craig, Compass Properties' general manager in Wausau. "It will create synergies in the area that have not been there before. With ArtsBlock, the shopping and big employers downtown, the hotel will be another great addition to the community."
Downtown businesses are just as excited as the developers, who unveiled the final designs for the hotel, office and retail development Thursday.

"I think the downtown is moving in the right direction," said Dave Jahnke, owner of St. Clair's Menswear, which has been downtown for 31 years. "The hotel will only continue it on that track."
Terry Koss, co-owner of HT Cobblery on the Pedestrian Mall, agrees.

"If anything, the hotel is the most positive thing the city has done," Koss said. "It's more positive than the parking ramp or the (400 Block open space). That's brought no retail downtown."
The Jefferson Street ramp has added 16,000 square feet of retail space to downtown. River Valley State Bank is the only business that has moved into the ramp since it was ready in September. "It's tough for the little guy to get started," Koss said.
"I'm interested to see if they find retailers for those spaces," Koss said. "I think the ramp is struggling more than they're letting on."
The hotel should add more punch to the downtown business community, though, with its regular clientele and its proximity to downtown restaurants and shops.

"I think it will kick-start getting businesses downtown," said Todd Nicklaus, president of River Valley State Bank. "The momentum of this will definitely continue to create other opportunities and developments downtown."
Wausau Mayor Linda Lawrence said she thinks a condominium project on top of the Jefferson Street ramp will still happen despite losing an investor in October. Other projects are in the works, too, and the city continues to tout a healthy downtown with "good numbers and a good plan" to developers.
"Now the challenge is to do it," Lawrence said. "Only one phase is to develop the agreement. We've got other projects out there."
Compass Properties and IDM formed a company called Gateway LLC to build the new hotel, which they are calling The Gateway Hotel and Office Project. Besides the hotel and restaurant, the development will include ground-floor commercial space on the south side and a second-floor skywalk from the hotel to the Jefferson Street ramp.


Oh lucky me I made the thousandth post! I'm so proud! :)

ONE THOUSAND :cheers:








:applause: :applause: :applause:










PARTY TIME!!!!!

Wow, that's pretty cool. I don't think any of the WAM installations have ever hit 1000. We rock! :colgate:

LOL, I say we all raise our glasses for a toast...CG5, I say you should do the honors?

Well, technically, CG5's post about the hotel proposal was the 1000th post, and paule's post on the Wausau hotel was the 1000th reply. But that's splitting hairs ;) I considered doing a little Spamming of the thread last night to get the 1000th post, but i held myself back, haha. Damn it, though, i wanted to take a screenshot of the thread list when it said 1000 replies... Anyways, now for the Spam!

http://www.manganime-world.de/1000.jpg

http://www.arsenalpulp.com/1000beards/images/One_Thousand_Beards.jpg

http://www.taiho.co.jp/healthcare/img/product/pphoto/1000-3.jpg

http://www.comedybarn.com/1000.jpg

http://www.images.com.au/images/1000-40.jpg <---This picture makes my reply on-topic ;)

http://www.bankofsudan.org/Animation/22222a.GIF

http://www.army.mod.uk/img/garrisonradio/Sgt%20Steve%20Barrow%201.JPG

1000 cents
http://www.kokogiak.com/megapenny/thousand_cube_A.jpg

http://image.pathfinder.com/asiaweek/features/asiaweek1000.2000/images/1000home.jpg

http://www.100nocao.blogger.com.br/1000.jpg

:banana: :carrot: :cucumber: :pepper: :cheers1: :booze: :cheers: :guns1:

/end :spam1:

Ahem...

O, ye great city of Milwaukee...

In a place called SkyscraperPage
So long ago we began a quest
To raise awareness and garner praise
And make everyone realize the Brew City's the Best.

And now, two years later
We labor on, strong.
After working so hard
A thread 1000 posts long!

And everyone sees it!
And everyone knows!
Because one-thousand posts
Makes a thread that shows
That Milwaukee is GREAT!
And all should partake
In the thrill and the wonder!
Now, break out the cake!

There. A toast. A bad one, but a toast nonetheless. Now, as I promised...

http://www.lafarine.com/src/weddingcakes/cake-cov.jpg

:cheers1: Congrats on the 1000th post and reply everyone!!

Wow. Has this EVER happened before?

That is not at all a bad toast, CG5! I think it is very clever.
Cheers!

Is this the longest thread on the board? i don't know. One of the Toronto vs. Chicago threads may have been longer, but that was one long insult-fest! At least this is positive. Then there are all the regional forums that i don't frequent. They could have a really long What About Canberra thread that i dont know about.

Who started the very first What About Milwaukee thread? Was it you, CG5? That would be fun to read :cool:

Yeah, it was me. It was, like, my first week at SSP. So WAM is almost as old as me, at least in Forum years. ;) I didn't see anything about my city; hence the title. Sadly, I believe that all record of the original is gone...the only ones left are this one and the one at the WSF. The two SSP versions are, as they say, Gone With the Wind. lol

Hey hold on, does anybody have a comment about the new downtown Wausau hotel? I mean jeez, cities like Milwaukee and Chicago get them all the time...LOL.

No it really is a big deal up here in Wausau and from the rendering I think I can say I like it. Some of it shows some architectual value. And it's not the size that matters, it's the amount of change involved!
Wausau is the only city outside Madison and Milwaukee that is doing anything with it's downtown right now, er...I believe I'm right in saying that. So please let me hear some hoorahs and way-ta-gos!!

Congrats on the hotel, but the link doesn't show any renderings. There was some headline about obesity operations.

Originally posted by CG5

Congrats on the hotel, but the link doesn't show any renderings. There was some headline about obesity operations.

Thanks CG5 but the link I provided the other day is a headline page for the newspaper. It changes everyday. If you wanted to see the rendering you had to view it the day I linked it. It's in acrobat form so I can't copy the pic. I made my post for a reason, not just to get the 1000th post yah know! When I asked in my post for you to view the link I kind of meant it. But no biggy, I'll just see if I can find a rendering that I can post.

I take it nobody cared about the link I showed but only that we got 1000 posts? HUH, OH You guys!!!

More details about PabstCity--the redevelopment of the former Pabst Brewery into a downtown mixed-use entertainment district--were described in the Small Business Times.

Developers are negotiating a letter of intent from GameWorks to incorporate a large arcade/restaurant/bar into PabstCity, fitting right in line with the entertainment theme for the project. GameWorks has a number of such popular venues in other cities across the country--the nearest of which are in suburban Chicago and Minneapolis.

Developers also are continuing to solidify previous letters of intent from other interested parties into official leases--including a House of Blues and a Hofbrauhaus brewpub/restaurant.

Current plans for PabstCity include:

430 loft apartments
170 condominums
55,000 sqft of office space
5280 parking paces
an 18-screen movie theater, with stadium seating
a 200-room hotel
a grocery store

The article also includes an interview with lead developer John Ferchill, of the Ferchill Development Group, which has major redevelopment projects ongoing in Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Akron, and Detroit.

See here for more: Pabst City will include GameWorks arcade and bar (http://www.biztimes.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=homepage.breakingNews&URLbreakingNewsID=123)

Originally posted by Markitect

More details about PabstCity--the redevelopment of the former Pabst Brewery into a downtown mixed-use entertainment district--were described in the Small Business Times.

Developers are negotiating a letter of intent from GameWorks to incorporate a large arcade/restaurant/bar into PabstCity, fitting right in line with the entertainment theme for the project. GameWorks has a number of such popular venues in other cities across the country--the nearest of which are in suburban Chicago and Minneapolis.

Developers also are continuing to solidify previous letters of intent from other interested parties into official leases--including a House of Blues and a Hofbrauhaus brewpub/restaurant.

Current plans for PabstCity include:

430 loft apartments
170 condominums
55,000 sqft of office space
5280 parking paces
an 18-screen movie theater, with stadium seating
a 200-room hotel
a grocery store

The article also includes an interview with lead developer John Ferchill, of the Ferchill Development Group, which has major redevelopment projects ongoing in Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Akron, and Detroit.

See here for more: Pabst City will include GameWorks arcade and bar (http://www.biztimes.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=homepage.breakingNews&URLbreakingNewsID=123)

I could be mistaken but didn't John Ferchill already buy the Pabst location? I know this article doesn't dispute that but what the article implies is that he bought the land with no committments in hand. I don't want to be an alarmist but I think these letters of intent should've been taken care of already, before the financing was approved.

Originally posted by Paule

I could be mistaken but didn't John Ferchill already buy the Pabst location? I know this article doesn't dispute that but what the article implies is that he bought the land with no committments in hand. I don't want to be an alarmist but I think these letters of intent should've been taken care of already, before the financing was approved.

That's nothing out of the ordinary, really. Developers buy land without commitments from tenants all the time. It's common practice. They could buy the land and sit on it for a while if they wanted (and that's what some developers do--also very common).

The developers purchased the land a little over a year ago and immediately began working on redevelopment plans, shopping for tenants, securing financing, and making preparations on the site. They've been making announcements fairly regularly on their progress (which I've mentioned here throughout the past year).

You're being an alarmist.

They had to buy the land first, so they'd know for sure they'd own it, before going out to shop for possible tenants. Otherwise some other developer could swoop in and buy it first, and all that time shopping for tenants for a property they didn't yet own would be wasted.

i read the pabst city article and i like the part where it was mentioned that milwaukeeans spend more money on entertainment than any other city its size. Basically saying we are party-holics!! haha, Hell Ya!
:booze:

Originally posted by djcody

i read the pabst city article and i like the part where it was mentioned that milwaukeeans spend more money on entertainment than any other city its size. Basically saying we are party-holics!! haha, Hell Ya!
:booze:

Milwaukeans do have their priorities set! LOL, That is not in arguement!

When I tried the link the other day, Paule, it hadn't loaded after five minutes of waiting. I figured I'd just wait until things were moving more quickly. Perhaps you should have told us that the link wouldn't work after the first day...no need to get huffy.

sorry msp i never got your im, infact I don't even know how those work. hey, not to change the subject abuot pabst city but have any of you guys seen the rendering for Calatrava's version of university club tower?

Originally posted by jiveturkey
hey, not to change the subject abuot pabst city but have any of you guys seen the rendering for Calatrava's version of university club tower?

That rendering was circulated a couple years ago (but that plan was subsequently dropped). I think I saw it once, but don't remember where. It wasn't here. Haven't found it in the Journal Sentinel archives either.

Originally posted by djcody

i read the pabst city article and i like the part where it was mentioned that milwaukeeans spend more money on entertainment than any other city its size. Basically saying we are party-holics!! haha, Hell Ya!
:booze:

The person who gave the smart growth lecture at SARUP mentioned this as a strong selling point as well.

jiveturkey: At the bottom of the main page of the forum, http://www.skyscrapercity.com/index.php?s=, there should be a section called Private Messages. Click on it, and it will take you to your folder of private messages, sort of like SSC email. The message should be there. If not, then the Private Message feature is not working properly, because i am quite sure i sent it :)

Originally posted by MSPtoMKE
jiveturkey: At the bottom of the main page of the forum, http://www.skyscrapercity.com/index.php?s=, there should be a section called Private Messages. Click on it, and it will take you to your folder of private messages, sort of like SSC email. The message should be there. If not, then the Private Message feature is not working properly, because i am quite sure i sent it :)

Also, you must have the PM function enabled in order to receive them. PMs can be activated in the user's profile. Click the "User CP" button at the top right-hand corner of the page, then click on "Edit Oprions," and then scroll down the list of features until you see something like "Enable PM" (or "Enable Priovate Messages," something like that), and switch it to "Yes."

After that, you ought to be able to receive PMs.

thanks i got it and replied. i can't wait for papst city those old buildings look so cool. its good to see west town embracing its identity as milwaukee's entertainment district.

Originally posted by CG5

When I tried the link the other day, Paule, it hadn't loaded after five minutes of waiting. I figured I'd just wait until things were moving more quickly. Perhaps you should have told us that the link wouldn't work after the first day...no need to get huffy.

Not huffy, just discouraged. You need to understand my sense of humor, sometimes it can be a bit dry.

I didn't know myself that the link changes every day. I get the paper here every day and rarely ever go to the website. But it didn't take 5 minutes for it to load up for me but it did take a while.

I e-mailed the contractor and the architect for renderings so hopefully I'll get a reply. I just checked my e-mail and there was nothing so....

Lovely sunset Milwaukee has tonight huh?

http://www.boomspeed.com/paule17/001.jpg

We have had a couple of gorgeous sunsets this week that i have seen from the Architecture building, but haven't had my camera along to take a picture of. Tuesday's was particularly nice.

Here is another article, this time from the Journal Sentinel, about the possibility of GameWorks locating in PabstCity: GameWorks negotiating PabstCity lease - Entertainment center would target professionals, students (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/nov03/186630.asp)

Good Deal. Gameworks are actually pretty fun. I am by no means a big video game fan, but i have been to the Minneapolis and Seattle ones with a friend, and had a pretty good time. They are quite big, also. Both of the ones i went to were 2 levels. I think it would be a big draw for people from the 'burbs.

Hey everyone,
I love that Milwaukee has the longest-running thread on the forum! I figure the more the merrier, so what the heck,
I'm a Milwaukee expatriate (L.A. at the moment) and I finally started my first Milwaukee pictures thread, please check it out at:

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72573

And after that, if you're still interested in Milwaukee pictures, you can see my long-un-updated old website here (soon to be replaced by a much larger and more "cutting edge, information superhighway-esque" version):

http://www.geocities.com/thelacostranostra/

-----------
vjmelzer
-----------

Originally posted by vjmelzer


my first Milwaukee pictures thread, please check it out

All I ask is that you don't make it your last! Please...



And after that, if you're still interested in Milwaukee pictures, you can see my long-un-updated old website here (soon to be replaced by a much larger and more "cutting edge, information superhighway-esque" version):


I've visited your website once before, must have been two years ago or so, I liked it then and I like it now. I look forward to the new and improved version!

Hey vjmelzer...Welcome to "What about Milwaukee"!

Your among friends:)

Originally posted by MSPtoMKE

We have had a couple of gorgeous sunsets this week that i have seen from the Architecture building, but haven't had my camera along to take a picture of. Tuesday's was particularly nice.

I love sunsets and or sun raises, it's my favorite theme in skyline pics. The colors brought about in the back ground make skylines of any city, big or small, that much more grander.

M2M if you ever find your camera near you during a sunset or sun raise, please take a shot!

Hey guys, what is being built on the corner of Knapp St. and Broadway downtown?? Any clue??

Originally posted by djcody

Hey guys, what is being built on the corner of Knapp St. and Broadway downtown?? Any clue??

The Kern Center--a new gymnasium and related facilities for the Milwaukee School of Engineering. Look back through the pages of this thread from earlier this year to read about it.

Thanks markitect. I had a feeling you knew what was going on.
:)

An article from today's Business Journal describes the ongoing discussion for relocating Potowatomi Bingo Casino to Downtown from its current location in the Menomonee Valley. The study identifies four possible sites for relocating the casino (in the Park East corridor; a site at N. 6th and W. State Streets; a site west of the Amtrak Station; and a site east of the Summerfest Grounds).

Potowatomi has put a lot of investment in the current facilities in the Valley, and has plans on the table for another expansion there in the future (depending on the outcome of the state gaming compacts legal tangle). Further relocation hurdles concerning tribal lands could arise from the Federal government, as well.

Here's the artcile: Study seeks to woo casino downtown - Private effort launched to convince tribe that moving is feasible (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2003/11/24/story1.html) (be sure to scroll down to the bottom--it's a three-pager)


I would rather see the casino stay put, and use those suggested Donwtown sites for other projects. Especialy sine the Potowatomi have invested so much into their facitlities already, and have more in store. Two of the four suggested sites--near the Amtrak Station and Summerfest--are relatively isolated. The site near Summerfest is also being eyed for a much-needed Downtown grocery store.


Another artcile from today's Business Journal describes developments heating up on the East Side. Numerous developers have shown interest in several properties in the area of N. Prospect/N. Farwell and E. North Avenues.

The major project slated to begin next year is the new Coulumbia-St. Mary's Hospital campus, which will include new hospital and mixed-use facilities along North Avenue.

Another developer is working with UWM to convert the Kenilworth Building on N. Farwell Avenue (a former warehouse owen by UWM, used now for arts studios/galleries, maintenance shop, storage space, and other miscellaneous uses) into a mixed-use retail/student housing/office building.

Meanwhile, other developers have undisclosed plans for some underutilized properties (gas station, office building, surface parking lots) on a couple other blocks in the area.

Also, New Land Enterprises has been marketing an 11-story retail/condo building at N. Farwell and E. Royall Place, to be called The Sterling.

Read the article for specifics: Boom looms on east side - Hospital, UWM projects excite developers (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2003/11/24/story2.html) (a two-pager)

I'm looking for the map of Milwaukee's original freeway masterplan...it has all the existing routes, and all of the planned ones, as awell as those whichwere never built. I wanted to include it in the research paper I' wrote for my Urban Studies class since I talk about the removal of the Park East freeway. If anyone knows where I can find this map, I'd be eternally grateful. I'd search this thread, but I have to finish my paper andthen finish building a scale model of my frickin' chair.

http://www.midwestroads.com/wisconsin/past/reports/m03_1965proposed1990system.jpg


I really wish that Bay Freeway was bulit because the "quickest" way to get to I-43 from my house is Hampton Ave.

The map posted above comes from the book Greater Milwaukee's Growing Pains, 1950-2000: An Insider's View by Richard W. Cutler. There are a few more maps of the freeway system in the book--some which zoom into the city a bit more, so you can get a really good sense of the destructive nature the proposal would have had on Milwaukee's neighborhoods.

Link to the Park Freeway East map (http://www.midwestroads.com/wisconsin/past/reports/m04_1965downtownloopfreeway.jpg)

Link to the Park Freeway West map (http://www.midwestroads.com/wisconsin/past/reports/m06_1965parkwestfreeway.jpg)

Incidentally, the 1965 SEWRPC Freeway Plan was not Milwaukee's original freeway plan, but it was the one on which the current system is based. There are freeway plans from the 1940s and 50s which predate the SEWRPC's plan, and are entirely different.

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports that portions of a former Aurora Sinai hospital on the West Side (at W. Kilbourn Avenue and N. 22nd Street) will be redevloped into loft-style apartmetns. The developer, Gorman & Co., is known for several residential conversion projects throughout the city that have used Federal affordable housing tax credits which allows the company to offer below-market rents. Gorman hopes to secure financing by spring 2004 and have the redevelopment complete by summer 2005.

Check out the article for more information: Firm to convert hospital into lofts - Ex-Aurora Sinai campus gets $13 million proposal (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/dec03/189402.asp)

Originally posted by Markitect

Incidentally, the 1965 SEWRPC Freeway Plan was not Milwaukee's original freeway plan, but it was the one on which the current system is based. There are freeway plans from the 1940s and 50s which predate the SEWRPC's plan, and are entirely different.
You wouldn't happen to know where i might be able to find a map of these plans, would you? Is it in the same book as those that you linked to (but not scanned by the person who does that site)? Heck, I'm even willing to travel to the library to see it, if you know of a book ;)

Good luck with your chair, CG :)

On Wednesday, the city gave preliminary approval to an 11-story condo project just northeast of Brady St. One of the developers sounds like a real character. Read all about it
right
here. (http://www.jsonline.com/homes/build/dec03/189980.asp)

That is cool that they're gonna build something that is a little more reasonablely priced. Some people just can't afford $500,000. hope his accusations don't effect his projects.

Perhaps Milwaukee's busiest development firms in recent years is going to get even busier. The City has selected New Land's propsal for a project to be built on a City-owned parking lot in East Town, between N. Marshall and N. Cass Streets, Downtown.

The $40 million proposal includes 137-units of condominiums and apartments in three buildings (10-stories, 9-stories, and 7-stories), plus some retail space.

City officials said New Land has the best proosal of the four firm that applied to the City-issued request for proposals on the site--which is located in the same neighborhood as luxury condo high-rises Kilbourn Tower (under construction) and University Club Tower (expected to break ground in spring). The project will now go through the process of getting approval from the Plan Commission and Common Council.

This latest New Land project is in addition to a handful that have been approved/in marketing or are currently under construction:

- Sterling Condominiums: an 11-story residentiaql/retail building to be constructed on another City-owned parking lot along N. Farwell Avenue on the Lower East Side, which was approved a few days ago

- Cathedral Square Condominiums: part of the mixed-use Cathedral Place which will be nearing completion in the coming weeks

- Riverbridge Condominiums: a project in its second pahse, under construction at N. Water Street and N. Humboldt Avenue.

- Jefferson Block: a mixed-use apartment/retail project in its second phase of construction in the Third Ward.

As part of the agreement for the Marshall/Cass Street project (no name released yet) and the Sterling, the parking spaces on those lots will be replaced with spaces inside the parking stuructures that will be built with those developments (because the City leases out those spaces), in addition to new spots for residents of the buildings.

See the article in the Business Journal for more info (be sure to scroll all the way down, it's a two-pager): $40 million downtown living project planned - New Land proposes 137 condos, apartments on city parking lot site (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2003/12/15/story3.html?page=1)

Skyscrapers.com now puts the University Club tower at 137 meters, making it the third tallest building in Milwaukee just behind the Faison.

Originally posted by Fiddlerontheruf

Skyscrapers.com now puts the University Club tower at 137 meters, making it the third tallest building in Milwaukee just behind the Faison.
450 ft!!!!!!!!!

wow, that's pretty tall for a 33 floor residential building. a new third tallest for milwaukee, that would be awesome to see. i am aware that some of you feel the site is too close to kilbourn, but i would just be so damn excited to see something this tall rise in mlwaukee (yes, i am a height whore, i just love tall buildings, the taller the better)


Originally posted by Markitect
and University Club Tower (expected to break ground in spring).

hey mark, is UCT really expected to break ground in the spring? i thought there were still legal wranglings going on about it being too close to kilbourn, no?

Originally posted by sharptent

wow, that's pretty tall for a 33 floor residential building. a new third tallest for milwaukee, that would be awesome to see. i am aware that some of you feel the site is too close to kilbourn, but i would just be so damn excited to see something this tall rise in mlwaukee (yes, i am a height whore, i just love tall buildings, the taller the better)

This section drawing (taken from Mandel's website--the developer of UCT) shows the relation between University Club Tower (in the middle; the University Club itself, an existing building to which the tower will be attached, is on the left) and Kilbourn Tower (on the right).
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/641/120section_north_south.jpg

Tall buildings or not, that gap between the two buildings, above the base, is only about 25 feet, maybe 20. And the windows of KT which face UCT get a nice view of a virtually blank wall.

Getting a tall bulding is one thing, but good design and planning should never ever EVER be sacrificed in order to get something tall built! Period. And this is a perfect example of such a circumstance.

hey mark, is UCT really expected to break ground in the spring? i thought there were still legal wranglings going on about it being too close to kilbourn, no?

Mandel is approaching it as if no legal issues will arise from the developers of KT. So they say Spring 2004. Whether that will actually happens remains to be seen.

yeah, i get what you're saying, but still............. 450 goddamn feet!!!!

i supoose these two towers are too close, it would look dumb if they get built that close to eachother.

why can the UCT tower just me moved over on its site? from that sectional view it looks like they could easily put 200 ft. between the two towers if they wanted to.

Originally posted by sharptent

yeah, i get what you're saying, but still............. 450 goddamn feet!!!!

450 poorly designed feet.

why can the UCT tower just me moved over on its site? from that sectional view it looks like they could easily put 200 ft. between the two towers if they wanted to.

Reread what I posted above. There's no wiggle room at all in this section. UCT is going up in the space between KT (shown on the right) and the existing University Club (the 3-5-story low-rise stuff shown on the left).

UCT could be pushed toward the rear of the site (as was suggested by developers of KT), but it cannot be pushed to either side, as it occupies the entire width of the site (depicted in the above section). And UCT's developers say they can't push the tower to the rear of the site, because it would be "bad urban planning" since the tower would tower over all of the low rise buildings across the street from the rear of the site.

ohhhhh, i thought that the 3-5 story low-rise stuff in the sectional view was part of the new UCT development, i had no idea that it was existing, should've read more carefully.

perhaps the existing lowrise stuff could just be demo'd and the tower built on that piece of land, or is the existing structure a worthwhile and significant piece of architecture?

Originally posted by sharptent
perhaps the existing lowrise stuff could just be demo'd and the tower built on that piece of land, or is the existing structure a worthwhile and significant piece of architecture?

If the University Club were interested in demolishing its own building so the University Club Tower could be built, or demolishing/replacing their facilities into the tower, they would have done that in the three or so years this project has been on the drawing boards.

So no, that's not an option.

And if they had, I would have been one pissed archidork. I'm a big fan of the University Club...it's a very classy little building.

I find the UCT developers' excuse for the building placement pretty absurd. Their decision to have UCT hump Kilbourn Tower is the best example of "bad urban planning" I've seen in Milwaukee since I've started paying attention to such things. Their other excuse--that it would "ruin the design"--is a total crock. A developer who cares about design?? Not before pigs fly over upside down rainbows on the 30th day of Febuary. The whole thing looks disturbingly tactical, what with UCT's blank wall twenty feet from the windows of KT's southern-facing units. It reeks of rank, vile bullshit. If the city council allows this, they're shooting themselves in the foot. KT's going to have a really hard time selling multi-million dollar units with a concrete view. Oops--there goes the boost in the tax base.

Quality over quantity. Wait, no, let me re-phrase that; Harmony over height.


**EDIT** - Um, is that a fifty foot blank-walled utility penthouse on top of UCT? Can we say "EEEEEEEW"?

tmj 4 just said there is a 4 alarm fire in the bank 1 building

I guess its too late to do anything about those two buildings being too close to each other. We'll just have to view them as our own personal "Twin Towers", hehe. But here's the question: "would you guys build UCT on the southern end of the lot by the low rise buildings, or on the opposite side of the lot by Kilbourn Tower"?... Ready, set, go!

I have looked at some of the most recent postings. first, of the milwaukee freeway system and second, of the recent proposed university club tower.

I think I have clearly stated what my view of the Milwaukee metro freeway system is. I still think a bypass from I-43 north to highway 41-45 is a good idea. a freeway built say just north of Mequon to connect with 41-45 in Germantown by like highway 167 north is an idea worth looking into. I know people get hot and bothered by freeway projects but I for one would like to see a growth spurt in the regional Milwaukee metro area and highway projects like this may incourage someone to invest more money in the north suburbs of Milwaukee. I also think a bypass west of highway 16 around Waukesha to meet with I-94 in Racine county is also a freeway that should be considered for mostly the same reasons as a north bypass sould be done. I don't believe a centralized freeway into the city is good but a bypass freeway from Racine county to just west of Waukesha would divert a considerable amount of trucking traffic going into and around the state coming from Chicago around Milwaukee west of where many people use I-894. I think a further western bypass would ease conjestion on the inner freeway system. I think if such projects were to be built then metro Milwaukee may see that day where it is possible to have a metro population in excess of 2.5 to 3 million plus people. Like I have said I think it would serve the state of Wisconsin well if it's major city (metro Milwaukee) has a well maintained and managed freeway system to encourage people to live and work in the metro Milwaukee region.

I like the idea of the university club tower proposal it is hopefully a sign of better things to come. But really if Milwaukee is to see a major resurgence in its downtown core, the Metro Milwaukee region must be able to attract businesses not only into the city proper but in the metro area as well and that my friends means maybe looking into building and expanding the current freeway system in the regional metro Milwaukee area.

Nah. You can't build your way out of congestion; and building more freeways only invites more traffic, which leads to more congestion. Then what's next--an outer-outer bypass? And then another?

No, more freeweays aren't the answer.

A northern bypass north of Mequon is not possible. It's pretty much built up all the way to just north of Saukville, aside from some noncontinuous patches of farmland that will inevitably be developed.

As for making metro Milwaukee grow, it'd be best to have it grow smart. Freeways are counterproductive, as they are an invitation for sprawl and decentralization--which is exactly the thing that kills urban centers. Build another bypass, and buisnesses won't locate within the City of Milwaukee, or Downtown (which means no towers that everyone here seems to want)--instead we'll get low-rise office parks scattered around the periphery of the metro area (and that is the exact opposite of the downtown resurgence we all want to see). That's what happened the first time the freeways were built, not just here, but everywhere.

Markitect, I don't think you will have to worry about a north bypass of Milwaukee. For there is nothing in the way of having to do any bypasses around the regional Milwaukee metro area in the States tranportation plan. The State plans on widining I-43 from around bayshore mall up to just past Mequon from the current 4 lane to a possible 6 to 8 lane road going into the city.
The Marquette interchange is getting a major upgrade which to me is long overdue. the only real things the state plans on doing to Milwaukee's freeway system is to widen the system, which for the most part is 6 lanes to 8 lanes, no bypasses are in the plans. If and I say IF there were plans I am sure a western bypass of Waukesha to Racine would be what the state may look towards to do another bypass IMHO.

Building roads and so forth are surface things that people look at to see visually to know what kind of progress is being made in an area.

Milwaukee'e real problem with attracting people to live there is both in the State level and the cities local levels. Too many people around there think a (D) next to some local politicians name is a good thing and having that (D) is the person that they will vote for, if this person wins their primary. Now if this person has an (R) next to there name well (I will not vote for such a person that has an (R) next to there name). It is that way of thinking that has led Milwaukee to where it is now (good or bad).

If you really want to change things up I will say some of the most progressive and fastest growing cities are run by a common council with a city manager with the mayor being in some cases the head of the common council. Milwaukee's city government is aldermanic and has districts to which this alderman is elected. in a common council this post is a city wide vote so this person isn't tied to the district for which they are when you run as an alderman. If Milwaukee wants to shake things up and try and be more progressive then maybe a total change of government and governance can make the changes needed to help Milwaukee get on with the future. But really Milwaukee'e biggest problem is State and Local Taxes and how more money the politicians want and need to do all the programs that they promised when they ran for office in the first place.

call me stupid, but what is the problem with the two buildings being only 24 feet apart? That seems normal to me.

The problem is that the units in Kilbourn Tower which face south will get a nice floor-to-ceiling view of a blank wall outside their windows because of the poorly designed UCT next door (it probably wouldn't be so bad if that wall wasn't going to be virtually blank--i.e. it had more windows in it or a different treatment on the facade; it would be even better if UCT was completely redesigned, made slimmer, and could thus "slide over" a bit). Not to mention, those units will always be in shadow--much of the south-facing facade of KT (the one which faces UCT) is all glass. Slapping a building up against it completely destroys the advantages of having a major glass south-facing facade (passive solar heating, etc.). Not a very good selling point for KT.

While lake views are not garaunteed, (KT knew there was going to be a building built next door eventually since the two projects originated at about the same time), it's just common sense that UCT should have been designed by taking into consideration the presence of KT next door. Buildings do not exist in a vacuum, and should not be designed as if they did. That's bad design.

Furthermore, from a more legal standpoint, KT's argument is that the City made them jump through all sorts of hoops before the building was approved (they had to bury all of the parking and mechanical stuff--increasing the construction costs), and then the City made no such requirements for UCT next door (they've got surface parking in the back, and a big mechanical penthouse on the roof).

So to answer Djcody's question ("would you guys build UCT on the southern end of the lot by the low rise buildings, or on the opposite side of the lot by Kilbourn Tower"?), I would rather not build UCT at all with its current design, period.

And I'll gladly second that.

Markitect, hehehe, I knew you were gonna say that. But what would you choose from the two options available? :)

Originally posted by Markitect

The problem is that the units in Kilbourn Tower which face south will get a nice floor-to-ceiling view of a blank wall outside their windows because of the poorly designed UCT next door (it probably wouldn't be so bad if that wall wasn't going to be virtually blank--i.e. it had more windows in it or a different treatment on the facade; it would be even better if UCT was completely redesigned, made slimmer, and could thus "slide over" a bit). Not to mention, those units will always be in shadow--much of the south-facing facade of KT (the one which faces UCT) is all glass. Slapping a building up against it completely destroys the advantages of having a major glass south-facing facade (passive solar heating, etc.). Not a very good selling point for KT.

While lake views are not garaunteed, (KT knew there was going to be a building built next door eventually since the two projects originated at about the same time), it's just common sense that UCT should have been designed by taking into consideration the presence of KT next door. Buildings do not exist in a vacuum, and should not be designed as if they did. That's bad design.

Furthermore, from a more legal standpoint, KT's argument is that the City made them jump through all sorts of hoops before the building was approved (they had to bury all of the parking and mechanical stuff--increasing the construction costs), and then the City made no such requirements for UCT next door (they've got surface parking in the back, and a big mechanical penthouse on the roof).

So to answer Djcody's question ("would you guys build UCT on the southern end of the lot by the low rise buildings, or on the opposite side of the lot by Kilbourn Tower"?), I would rather not build UCT at all with its current design, period.

True, but isn't that the problem of the people who are moving in there? For me, the main reason I want this building to be built is what it will do for the city: add to the skyline and move more people into downtown. Now, if there are some design flaws that only relate to those living in the KT, is that not their problem and not ours?

Originally posted by Fiddlerontheruf

True, but isn't that the problem of the people who are moving in there?

If UCT gets built as designed, yes, it will be "the problem" of residents of KT. But that's not my point.

For me, the main reason I want this building to be built is what it will do for the city: add to the skyline and move more people into downtown.

For you, that's your reason. For me, it's not. I don't care about skylines. I care about the planning and design of buildings and cities.

Now, if there are some design flaws that only relate to those living in the KT, is that not their problem and not ours?

I've never said it was "our" problem; I'm just giving a critique of the building and its relationship to other buildings and the rest of the city.

Originally posted by Markitect

If UCT gets built as designed, yes, it will be "the problem" of residents of KT. But that's not my point.



For you, that's your reason. For me, it's not. I don't care about skylines. I care about the planning and design of buildings and cities.



I've never said it was "our" problem; I'm just giving a critique of the building and its relationship to other buildings and the rest of the city.

So say if, for example, the design flaw was "fixed" somehow, would you approve of the building of the UCT?

Originally posted by Fiddlerontheruf

So say if, for example, the design flaw was "fixed" somehow, would you approve of the building of the UCT?

I've already described how I might possibly approve of UCT.

The renaissance for N. King Drive on the city's near north side continues with plans for two new developments from local restauranteur Karl Kopp (best known for his Kopp's Frozen Custard outlets, as well as Elsa's on the Park). The plans call for rehabilitating two vacant buildings into two upscale restaurants/bars. Up until this point, the eating establishements that have opened up as a result of ongoing revitalization in the area have only been fast food or casual sit-down places.

An article in today's Journal Sentinel describes Kopp's plans, and reviews other revitalization projects along the street: Upscale eateries planned on King Drive - Owner of Kopp's aims to spend almost $2 million (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/dec03/195008.asp)

Of the seven local architecture firms that entered the design competition for Pier Wisconsin, two finalists have been selected--Jim Shields of HGA, and Harry Van Oudenallen/Nick Cascarano of Arquitectura (nice representation from UW-Milwaukee's School of Architecture and Urban Planning--all three architects are on the faculty).

When disputes about the original design from McClintock Architects arose (scroll back to the beginning of the thread to see original renderings), the idea of a competition came about as a means of finding a design more suitable for the lakefront location on Municipal Pier, next to the Art Museum. Now that the finalists have been selected, they will be revised. The jury hopes to make a final decision by January 9.

Pier Wisconsin will house a Great Lakes education center (which wil be the new home for the Dennis Sullivan schooner) and Discovery World Museum (a science/economics/history museum currently located adjacent to the Milwaukee Public Museum in Downtown).

The Journal Sentinel published a rendering from each finalist it obtained from other sources (neither of which show the entire design, but more will be available in the future, I would imagine).

Have a look through the article to read more about it: Clear sailing may finally lie ahead for pier - Finalists' proposals receiving rave reviews in design competition (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/dec03/195547.asp)

Rendering of Shields/HGA's design:

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/dec03/pier2122603.jpg


Rendering of Van Oudenallen & Cascarano/Arquitectura's design:

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/dec03/pier1122703.jpg

I think that second one looks unfinished.

The jury is in for Pier Wisconsin. Jim Shields of HGA has been selected. The Journal Sentinel reports there are still things that will be refined in the design during the upcoming months.

No new renderings have been relesed yet, though I'm sure we'll get to see the whole scheme soon.

Jury picks design for lakefront center - Pier Wisconsin building to have simple profile with links to museum (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jan04/199121.asp)

I am just wondering if there has been any progress made on the proposed Wisconsin and Broad tower and the proposed Ovation tower? I haven't seen anything new for a while on those proposals, I'm just wondering where they stand.

I would guess both developers are still looking for tenants. Not much of anything has been said about either proposal since they were announced over a year ago.

Lots of news today...

More Downtown housing--right on W. Wisconsin Avenue--is on the way, as work has begun to convert the 14-story Majestic Building into 135 apartment units. Developers Gorman & Co. is using several sources of tax credits to help finance the project, which will allow for some units to be rented as subsidized affordable housing units, and some apartment and condo units to go at market rates.

In addition to being located right in the middle of Downtown, and right next to the Shops of Grand Avenue mall, the conversion will also include an exercise facility, a half-court indoor basketball court, a business center with high-speed Internet access and a 16-seat home theater center for residents.

See the photo of the Majestic Building below, and the Business Journal article for more information (scroll down to the bottom, it's a two-pager): Majestic conversion under way in Westown - Gorman & Co. adding 135 apartments to downtown market (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/01/12/story7.html?page=1)

http://people.msoe.edu/~reyer/mke/1907c.jpg


The site search for the proposed Harley-Davidson motorcycle museum is revving up, as the company is considering a location at 6th and Canal Streets in the Menomonee Valley. Originally Harley had intentions of converting the brewhouse at the old Schlitz Brewery into a museum (announced back in 1999), but the cost of the project grew to the point of infeasability, and plans for that site were dropped in late-2002.

Nothing has been decided yet, and there are other sites under consideration as well. The City has been in the process of working with the Menomonee Valley Partners development group to create a development plan for that part of the Valley, which does not call for such uses at that location (though in theory, that could be changed). As of right now, the City and MVP have intended to redevelop the Valley as predominantly office and light industrial uses.

Artcile from the Business Journal (scroll down, three-pager): Harley museum weighs valley site - City officials tout site at Sixth Street bridge (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/01/12/story1.html)

Artcle from Journal Sentinel: Harley museum site debated - Development group favors other uses for Menomonee Valley site (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jan04/199957.asp)


The long-proposed Milwaukee Public Market, to be located in the Third Ward, may finaly become a reality. Fund raising for the $10 million project had slowed in recent years as the Art Museum expansion funding diverted donation money away from the Public Market, in conjunction with the slow economy. However, if a federal grant under consideration is approved, the Market could break ground this spring and completed by June 2005.

The site along E. St. Paul Avenue--between N. Broadway, N. Water Street, and the elevated I-794--is currently a surface parking lot. The Market will include indoor and outdoor stalls for local farmers and vendors selling fresh fruit and vegetables, baked goods, meat, fish, cheese, flowers and other items. It is anticipated to be a revitalization catalyst for other nearby blocks, which have a history of being Milwaukee's old produce market district.

Kubala Washatko Architects have designed a great-looking building with a warm, glassy, modern, industrial aesthetic. Special considerations have been made to pay attention to the building's performance as well--to make it more environmentally-friendly.

Check out the Journal Sentinel artcile for more:Public market plan could bear fruit soon (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jan04/199945.asp)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jan04/marketbig011504.jpg

Oh cool. That fruit market is sweet.

I grew up in Shorewood, on the East Side of Milwaukee and loved it, but let me tell you Milwaukeeans, if you want a real exciting, expanding and interesting city, you need to get out of Wisconsin.

Originally posted by Nick in Atlanta

I grew up in Shorewood, on the East Side of Milwaukee and loved it, but let me tell you Milwaukeeans, if you want a real exciting, expanding and interesting city, you need to get out of Wisconsin.

thanks for the tip. I'll be sure to check out one of Atlanta's many exciting suburbs when I'm down there...:cheers:

The building boom indeed continues, including smaller-scale projects located in neighborhoods that aren't Downtown...

Momentum from all the new construction and conversions in the Third Ward continues to cross the river into Walker's Point. Endeavour Group plans to demolish portions of an old foundry complex for a three-story building with street-level retail and apartments above. Another building will be salvaged, and converted into street-level retail (a restaurant) with offices above. Construction is anticipated to begin this summer.

A block away, another developer plans to convert another building into a cafe/restaurant on the street level with offices above.

Read the Journal Sentinel article for more info: Two projects planned in Walker's Point - Former Kramer buildings sold to developers who plan housing, offices, retail space (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jan04/200203.asp)


Reinvestment continues for a couple north side neighborhoods, as well.

Martin Luther King Economic Development Corp. will soon break ground on a three-story building with street-level commercial space and 18 apartments above. The project, called King Drive Commons, is located on N. MLK Drive and W. Hadley Street.

Over in Metcalfe Park, the North Avenue Community Development Corp. will also construct a three-story building with street-level retail and 22 apartments above. The project, called Columbia Square, will be built on a vacant lot at N. 33rd Street and W. North Avenue.

Read the Journal Sentinel article for more info: Two projects set for central city - Complexes to be built in spring will include apartments, retail space (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jan04/200357.asp)

The Harley-Davidson museum project picked up some more speed again, as the company continues to push for a site on the northeast corner of 6th and W. Canal Streets in the Menomonee Valley. In addition to the motorcycle museum and restaurant that's planned, Harley also would like to include an undisclosed amount of its own offices--perhaps an attempt to appease the Department of City Development and Menomonee Valley Parteners Inc., who are working on redeveloping the Valley with offices and light industrial uses.

So far, it's all just talk--Harley has yet to present anything official to the City.

Check it out: Offices added to museum mix - Harley broadens development plan to $80 million (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jan04/200599.asp)

Harley-Davidson made it's official pitch to the City and local media today to locate its proposed $95 million museum/restaurant/office complex in the Menomonee Valley. The project is expected to bring in 300 to 400 jobs, and 350,000 visitors a year.

The proposed site is on the northeast corner of 6th and W. Canal Streets. A large portion of the site is currently occupied by the Milwaukee Department of Public Works garage and storage facilities, which will have to be relocated.

The plan, which consists of three phases, also calls for a considerable amount of urban design on the site--including cutting in some new streets to provide interior access and access to a new section of riverwalk along the Menomonee River and South Menomonee Canal.

First Phase:
- Museum (90,000 sq. ft.)
- Restaurant (7,250 sq. ft.)
- Banquet facility (8,000 sq. ft.)
- Retail space (5,000 sq. ft.)

Second Phase:
- Archives and motorcycle restoration facility (20,000 sq. ft.)

Third Phase:
- Commercial/office space (100,000 sq. ft.)

Harley hopes to get the project fast-tracked through all the necesssary planning and Common Council meetings, etc. so it can begin in the near future, antipipating a complete build-out by 2007.

It's not a done-deal yet, and renderings aren't availbale yet.

Have a look at the Journal Sentinel article for more details: Harley-Davidson announces $95 million museum project in Menomonee Valley (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jan04/201526.asp)

And one from the Business Journal: Harley unveils $95 million museum plan for Menomonee Valley (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/01/19/daily27.html)

While we wait for more news on current MKE projects, I thought that it might be fun to look at some pics of the city of old. I dug through one of my history books on the city and found these:

Here's a cool pic up State Street in 1915. You can really see how City Hall dominated the skyline back in the day.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p444c4f00610b121e011441791fabd7e2/f9c4a90a.jpg

Here's a shot of Gimbels Department Store in 1901. There were giant Gimbels signs where the giant Borders signs that advertise my favorite downtown shopping spot are now.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p1db6075ac73b462f4283245a12ecc535/f9c4a914.jpg

This is the Menomonee Valley ca. 1960. You can see the skyline off in the background. I do have a larger version available, if anyone's interested.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/pf84a35a7aedf704353b540c7ecbb77c3/f9c4a90c.jpg

Here's the start of Lincoln Memorial Drive back in 1930. That empty pedastal now holds Saarinen's War Menomorial Building, and the MAM is directly underneath.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p3f75ce0d894bcefd32b4291aab8315f4/f9c4a90f.jpg

Finally, a shot of Commission Row in 1895. I'm not sure exactly where this was (Markitect?), but I know that the area has changed drastically. I think it was in the Third Ward, but I also think I'm wrong. :)
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/pfad6cd301b0cbb79fb6ba44527e30192/f9c4a91f.jpg

Lake Michigan ferry service between Milwaukee and Muskegon is expected to make a triumphant return this summer. Ferry operator Lake Express will link the two cities with a new high-speed, state-of-the-art catamaran--the first such vessel built for such service between two ports in the continental US. The yet-to-be named vessel is currently under construction at facilities in Mobile, Alabama and will make its way up the Atlantic, down the St. Lawerence Seaway, and through the Great Lakes to begin service by June 1.

Meanwhile, groundbreaking for the ferry terminal is set for this coming Tuedsay, Febuary 3. It will be located on S. Lincoln Memorial Drive, near the southern end of the Hoan Bridge. The rather modest terminal, designed by local firm Engberg Anderson Design Partners, features a two-story glass atrium, waiting area, and company offices (see rendering below). Outside, the terminal grounds will have 140-car parking lot, plus a staging area for loading cars onto the ferry. The project has a special emphasis on security issues as required by federal homeland security rules.

As for the high-speed ferry, the vessel is designed to reach speeds of 40 mph, making a one-way trip in about 2 hours and 40 minutes. The ferry will carry up to 250 passengers and 46 cars. Lake Express plans to run the ferry eight mounths out of the year, with 3 round trips per day in summer and 2 round trips per day in spring and fall.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jan04/ferrybig013004.jpg

See the Journal Sentinel article for a detailed explanation: High-speed ferry terminal cost reaches $3.5 million (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jan04/203963.asp)

Also check out the Lake Express website for a look at the interior and exterior of the catamaran. More specific information will be added to the site (like ticket prices and schedules) at a later date: Lake Express (http://www.lake-express.com/)

Previous ferry service between Milwaukee and Muskegon was handled by the massive SS Milwaukee (a.k.a. the "Milwaukee Clipper") from 1941 to 1970. The steamship is now on display in Muskegon.

Originally posted by CG5
Here's a shot of Gimbels Department Store in 1901. There were giant Gimbels signs where the giant Borders signs that advertise my favorite downtown shopping spot are now.

That's a great shot of one of my favorite buildings in the city. I love how Border's did their homework and incoprorated a sign onto their roof reminiscent of the old Gibmel's sign. Had that Gimbel's sign never existed, there's a 99% chance Border's wouldn't have done that.

Finally, a shot of Commission Row in 1895. I'm not sure exactly where this was (Markitect?), but I know that the area has changed drastically. I think it was in the Third Ward, but I also think I'm wrong. :)


Nope--you're right. That is Commission Row, on Broadway, in the Third Ward (and those buildings are likely to be redeveloped soon, once the Public Market is built).

Right...I think I read an article in the J-S a while ago about the Commission Row and how only one of the original produce companies is still located there...and something about all of the buildings converting to lofts. That's why I guessed at the Third Ward.

As for the Gimbel's/Borders sign, I also thought that was a really cool historic nod. It's a spectacular place for sinage, considering the way that Wisconsin Ave. veers to the north at the bridge and the old Gimbel's building sits at the very end of the view down E. Wisconsin. It's a really cool view. Come to think of it, I'm surprised I don't have a pic of that view. I may need to change that once it gets a tad warmer.

Here is a pair of editorials about Harley-Davidson's museum proposal that take different views on the project.

From the Journal Serntinel, the article mentions how the museum/office campus would be a strong tourism draw, a catalyst for future development in the Menomonee Valley, and a strategically located link between Downtown to the north, the Valley to the west, and Walker's Point to the south.

However, the preliminary site plans call for surface parking lots on multiple corners at 6th and W. Canal Streets--the gateway to the Valley on the west and the Harley campus on the east!

The project architects on board, Pentagram of Nwe York City and Jim Shields of HGA in Milwaukee, discuss some of their own ideas, and also hint that they'll work with Harley to make the site plan more urban, so a small neighborhood could eventually grow up around the museum/office complex.

Another possibility is to replace the corner surface parking lots with a mixed-use parking structure, like has been done in other parts of the city--which would definitely add an urban character to the proposal (despite claims from elsewhere that parking structures won't allow Harley enthusists to show off their bikes--which is why the prelim site plan calls for surface lots instead!).

Read it: Chrome-plated plan needs reflection (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/feb04/204372.asp)


Next is an opinion piece from the Business Journal, which hints that development in the Valley might more suited to entertainment/tourist-type venues rather than industrial and office uses as defined in the City's development plan for the Valley. It cites Potowatomi Bingo Casino and Miller Park as precendents for such development. However, it fails to note that those projects had existed and were well underway years before the City released it's development plan for the Valley, which calls for family-supporting job creation through industrial and office uses, not high-turnover, lower-wage jobs associated with tourism and entertainment developments. Common sense would be that any projects proposed for the Valley since the City released its plan in 1998 ought to follow the recommendations laid out in that plan.

On the site plan/parking issue, the article says that the City should not get hung up on the design so much that it prevents the museum from getting built. Essentially, if a parking sturcture proved to be too expensive, the museum should be built with the surface lots instead--thereby throwing good urban design and planning that has been done up to this point in previous years out the window for the sake of getting this project built.

Read it: Don't look Harley gift horse in mouth (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/02/02/editorial1.html)

Originally posted by CG5
As for the Gimbel's/Borders sign, I also thought that was a really cool historic nod. It's a spectacular place for sinage, considering the way that Wisconsin Ave. veers to the north at the bridge and the old Gimbel's building sits at the very end of the view down E. Wisconsin. It's a really cool view. Come to think of it, I'm surprised I don't have a pic of that view. I may need to change that once it gets a tad warmer.

Indeed it is an excellent place for classy attention-grabbing signage. I like how it's lit up at night, too.

That view corridor--looking west on Wisconsin Avenue toward the old Gimbel's--is probably my all-time favorite view in the city.

Thank you Byron Kilbourn and Solomon Juneau for purposely not lining up the street grids of your respective villages!

Yeah, that rivalry produced some of the greatest urban street scenes in the midwest, if not the country. I love'em.

Hi

Does anyone have a picture of the original Marquette interchange (then called Central Interchange)?


The WI-DOT has a small picture of it
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/d2/marquette/images/history1.jpg
And it looks so unlike how it looks today.


I've also just noticed that the redesigned interchange calls for the demolition of that old building you see on your right side when you're merging from 94E to 94E/43S.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/d2/marquette/images/designrendersm.jpg
A pity, that. When I first came to Milwaukee I thought it was cool that there's this old, tall building surrounded on all sides by freeway...


Also, does anyone know of any website or book (preferably available thru the UWM library) that has the history or pictures of Milwaukee's road development thru the years? Over the last several weeks I've somehow developed an interest in road plans and development. Wierd, huh :)

Thanks,
Jai

Originally posted by Jai
Does anyone have a picture of the original Marquette interchange (then called Central Interchange)?

The WI-DOT has a small picture of it

And it looks so unlike how it looks today.

What you drive through now IS the original interchange. There wasn't any before that. "Central Interchange" was just a generic name planners called it before it was built. It was later referred to as the "Marquette Interchange" for obvious reasons. That picture is just a construction photo from the 1960s, showing it half-built.

Also, does anyone know of any website or book (preferably available thru the UWM library) that has the history or pictures of Milwaukee's road development thru the years? Over the last several weeks I've somehow developed an interest in road plans and development.

A few websites/articles:

The History of Milwaukee County Highways (http://www.uwm.edu/Library/arch/highway/index.htm)

Road kill - Freeways paved way but ran over neighborhoods
(http://www.jsonline.com/Wheels/peak/nov99/sites11111099.asp)

Wisocnsin HIghway History (http://www.midwestroads.com/wisconsin/past/)

Books:

Greater Milwaukee's Growing Pains, 1950-2000: An Insider's View, Richard W. Cutler

There are a bunch of other planning documents at the UWM (in the Urban Archives room) and downtown libraries. Just search the obvious terms in the online catalog.

Should the City approve Harley-Davidson's proposal for a museum/office complex at 6th and Canal Streets, the Department of Public Works facilities currently located on the site will have to be relocated--at taxpayer's expense: $27 million of taxpayer's expense, to be exact (up from last week's estimate of $19-$22 million).

Concerns were raised at the Common Council's Zoning, Neighborhoods and Development Committee meeting yesterday over this cost increase and the parking issues discussed the other day. The Committee decided to hold off on sending the proposal on to the next stage of the approval process to review these concerns.

See the Journal Sentinel article for specifics: Costs rev up for museum - Harley plan calls for taxpayers to chip in $27 million (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/feb04/204856.asp)

Also, here is an overview of the Menomonee Valley looking west. The proposed site is at the tip of the "penninsula" formed by the Menomonee River and South Menomonee Canal.

http://www.renewthevalley.org/images/misc/frontphoto.jpg

After some time and thought on the proposed condo developments of the Kilbourne tower and University club tower and how close together they both will be to each other to me isn't that bad an idea.

I will explain, Many of Milwaukee's downtown office towers kindof stand off on their own with the possible exception of US bank tower and NML's data tower being within a block or two of each other. The major differance in Milwaukee's skyline with many other skylines is the downtown cluster of office towers. Just to name some of the cities close by Milwaukee, like Chicago, Minneapolis, St. Paul, Louisville, Indianapolis, and St. Louis each one of these cities have a more distictive office building cluster than Milwaukee.

I am not saying that it is bad that Milwaukee's office towers aren't closer together but it does make a differance when a lakefront picture is taken of downtown Milwaukee that the second, third and fourth tallest buildings in Milwaukee really aren't even in the picture (not without a wideangle lens of some sort). When I drove past Louisville I was amazed to see most if not all their buildings being built along the Ohio River and close to each other. Minneapolis'es towers too are pretty closer to each other as well.

Like I said I am not saying it is bad that Milwaukee has most of their towers spread out from one another to stand out but I think and this is only my opinion that a closer office tower cluster would make the cities skyline look better.

I think it is time for some more photos in this thread :D


Here you go!


:cheers:


http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/milwaukee/milwaukee_4281_550_dropwm.jpg


http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/milwaukee/milwaukee_4227_550_dropwm.jpg


http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/milwaukee/dsc04423_550_dropwm.jpg


http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/milwaukee/midwest_ctr_4231_550_dropwm.jpg


http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/milwaukee/art_museum_4412_550_dropwm.jpg


http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/milwaukee/art_museum_4413_550_dropwm.jpg


http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/milwaukee/downtown_4411_550_dropwm.jpg


http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/milwaukee/art_museum_4402_550_dropwm.jpg


http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/milwaukee/art_museum_4405_550_dropwm.jpg


http://www.consultwebs.com/ncphotos/images/milwaukee/art_museum_4399_550_dropwm.jpg




More later for ya'll. :)

Originally posted by man from Oshkosh

After some time and thought on the proposed condo developments of the Kilbourne tower and University club tower and how close together they both will be to each other to me isn't that bad an idea.

I will explain, Many of Milwaukee's downtown office towers kindof stand off on their own with the possible exception of US bank tower and NML's data tower being within a block or two of each other. The major differance in Milwaukee's skyline with many other skylines is the downtown cluster of office towers. Just to name some of the cities close by Milwaukee, like Chicago, Minneapolis, St. Paul, Louisville, Indianapolis, and St. Louis each one of these cities have a more distictive office building cluster than Milwaukee.

I am not saying that it is bad that Milwaukee's office towers aren't closer together but it does make a differance when a lakefront picture is taken of downtown Milwaukee that the second, third and fourth tallest buildings in Milwaukee really aren't even in the picture (not without a wideangle lens of some sort). When I drove past Louisville I was amazed to see most if not all their buildings being built along the Ohio River and close to each other. Minneapolis'es towers too are pretty closer to each other as well.

Like I said I am not saying it is bad that Milwaukee has most of their towers spread out from one another to stand out but I think and this is only my opinion that a closer office tower cluster would make the cities skyline look better.

The concern over KT/UCT is not that they are planned for two lots next to each other, or that they will be next door neighbors. It is not a dispute between the siting of the two towers within the realm of the city (i.e. putting one on the lakefront and the other several blocks away). It is a dispute between the siting of one tower on it's specific site relative to the building on the adjacent lot.

By all means there can be two towers next to each other on that block along Prospect Avenue--nothing wrong with that. It's how the design of one completely disregards the design of the other in its placement on the site.

Cities aren't about skylines, or looking good for the camera--and should not be designed to be so.

Um, well, I sort of disagree with that statement Markitect. I think that a city should be designed to be beautiful. It should also be designed to function well and serve the citizens, but beauty should be one of the primary concerns of urban planners. The architectural mantra of "Commodity, Firmness, and Delight" should be applied just as seriously to urban planning.

That being said, here's the photomontage I did to show how close the two towers will be...I don't think I posted this here. It might change your mind...it might not.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid83/p7b156d40c2fab9dabdbc070ef6a9d860/fae017cf.jpg

Originally posted by CG5

Um, well, I sort of disagree with that statement Markitect. I think that a city should be designed to be beautiful. It should also be designed to function well and serve the citizens, but beauty should be one of the primary concerns of urban planners. The architectural mantra of "Commodity, Firmness, and Delight" should be applied just as seriously to urban planning.

I never said we shouldn't design beautiful cities or buildings. I said the placement of buildings within a city should not be sited or designed based on the decision how good it will look in a photograph. Of course I want the highest quality, best-looking development possible, in terms of indivudual buildings as well as the overall urban environment.

So what if a skyline is more "spread out" along a particular axis (like Milwaukee's east-west axis)? So what if a bunch of shorter buildings separate two different clusters of taller buildings within Downtown? It's not the end of the world, and it certainly doesn't signify a bad city. Cities are never designed with intentions of how some tourist or resident is gonna compose a skyline photograph while he's out on a boat in the lake.

People don't experience a city by looking at a picture, or from standing far away looking back at a skyline--cities are experienced from within the urban fabric, right in the middle of everything. And therefore cities/buildings should be designed first and foremost from that perspective, along with functionability aspect. In other words, an architect or planner or even a layperson shouldn't fret if some proposal comes along that doesn't place the tallest building in the exact middle of the skyline, or if a skyline isn't symmetrically balanced, or if the taller buildings within a city are in a geographic area that is longer than it is wide, or even if it has separate areas of taller buildings.

There's a reason why Milwaukee has two skylines--the north-south skyline of resdiential highrises along the lake bluff, and the east-west skyline of the central business district. It had little to do with developers, planners, and/or architects deciding to put those buildings there for the heck of it. The clustering of taller buildings in different places, or along certian streets--just within the Downtown skyline--isn't necessarily a random, haphazard phenomenon, but rather a response to economic forces that were occurring at the time of the project. Since those forces are constantly in flux, cities experience a continual evolutionary process.

That being said, here's the photomontage I did to show how close the two towers will be...I don't think I posted this here. It might change your mind...it might not.


Thanks for posting that here--as there are likely others here who don't visit the SSP message board, and may have missed it. For reference, I posted the scaled section drawing that shows how close these two towers really are to each other earlier in this thread a couple months ago (and also at SSP), so anybody who missed it can go back through the thread to see it.

Again, to reiterate to anybody who didn't catch it, my reaction to the KT/UCT thing IS NOT "Oh no! They're putting two tall buildings next to each other! They should build UCT someplace else!" Rather, my reaction is "Oh no! UCT has some serious site plan and architectural design issues!"

Ok...hearing someone with your urban planning background say that cities shouldn't be designed to be beautiful kind of freaked me out. I just misread your previous comment.

As for Milwaukee's oddball skyline, I've always kind of liked it. By no means is it "amazing" or "impressive," but it's very unique, and I think that counts for something. It's always fun to watch peoples' reactions when they see a full east-to-west skyline shot and realize that there's much more than what you see at the lakefront. It's almost always shocking to them.

I also hope that I did not confuse you with what I said--I don't think that beauty is the most important thing in urban planning. Rather, it is one of several equally important components. If something is beautiful but doesn't work or is hard to get to or through, it's just as bad as a functional space that looks like a concrete-laden suburban office park.



***EDIT: That photomontage was done before we knew that UCT was going to be 400 feet, making it almost 40 feet taller than KT. That was when it was assumed that UCT would be around the same height as KT, actually. So just imagine that view with UCT about three or four floors higher.

Originally posted by CG5

Ok...hearing someone with your urban planning background say that cities shouldn't be designed to be beautiful kind of freaked me out. I just misread your previous comment.


No problem. Don't forget, I have background in architecture as well, so I take a well-rounded approach at all of my observations.

And just so you know, the notion that urban planners couldn't care less about creating beautiful cities is not always true either (same with some developers even, believe it or not).

A long battle lies ahead for a group of Navy verteans who want to dock the USS Des Moines heavy cruiser along Milwaukee's lakefront as a tourist attraction. The group has been working for years, trying to stir up support and donations (they need $20 million) for the proposal from various veteran's orbaizations, politicians, business owners, and citizens, but receiving approval may not be smooth sailing.

In addition to all the necessary approvals from regulatory agencies (the DNR, the Army Corps of Engineers, etc.), opponents of the proposal have some legitimate concerns regarding how the large ship (as long as two football fields and as tall as a 6-7-story building) will impact the lakefront in Veteran's Park.

It seems the parking and fencing issues are the most valid. There are existing parking lots nearby at McKinley Marina and behind the War Memorial Center, but there doesn't seem to be any word whether the proposal would require those lots to be enlarged. It would be a shame if even just a small portion of the park would have to be paved over to make more room for cars. The notion of fencing off an area around the ship also is still somehwat vague; but I don't think throwing up fencing along the lakefront (chian-link or even those fancy wrought iron type fences--to keep people away when the ship is not open for tours) near the ship isn't a great idea either.

I think the criticism about the ship's size relative to the old Coast Guard Station (which will hopefully be rehabilitated as a Native American educational center) is somewhat less valid, since the ship will be quite a ways away, on the other side of the marina.

Considering a ton of money still needs to be raised before the ship, drydocked in Philadelphia, can be taken out of mothballs (assuming the project even gets approval), it may be a while before Milwaukee sees this ship come in, if at all

You may be wondering, why choose the USS Des Moines, a relativey obscure Cold War-era heavy cruiser, and not the USS Wisconsin, a more appropriately-named and famous WWII battleship? A group once looked into bringing the Wisconsin to Wisconsin, but discovered in the early planning process that the ship was too big to traverse the locks in the St. Lawerence Seaway and Great Lakes. Incidentally, the bigger battleships are named after states, while the smaller heavy cruisers are named after state capitals.

As always, see the Journal Sentinel article for more on the story: Defense mounts against Navy gunship - Park preservationists question local ties, cost of bringing USS Des Moines to lakefront (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/feb04/205707.asp)

Some renderings of the USS Des Moines proposal:

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/sep03/ship2090103.jpg

http://my.execpc.com/~brouchou/desinmilw3.jpg


Of course, anchoring the ship in Veterans Park near the Milwaukee County War Memorial makes quite a bit of sense, thematically. Also fitting with that theme, is the Americas Freedom Center, which was proposed a while back as an extention of the War Memorial Center (though I think some of the architecture and site work for that project is absolutely horrible).

Have a look through the American Freedom Center's website: Americas Freedom Center (http://www.americasfreedomcenter.com/welcome3.asp)

Aerial view of the proposed Freedom Center:

http://www.americasfreedomcenter.com/images/arielview.jpg

A view from Veterans Park:

http://www.americasfreedomcenter.com/images/lakeview.jpg

Looking from the Art Museum plaza:

http://www.americasfreedomcenter.com/images/westview.jpg

A view from Lincoln Memorial Drive:

http://www.americasfreedomcenter.com/images/AFC_exterior.jpg

These projects, while they may be good for the city, spark the debate over a more coherent, controlled vision for the lakefront and park system. These things really need to be planned accordingly, keeping in mind that the quality, beauty, functionability of our lakefront and parks should not be sacrificed for a bunch of tourist attractions. These projects must tread carefully or they won't happen.

Milwaukee is in the mist of a race for mayor of the city of Milwaukee.

What are your thoughts on the candidates like,

David Clark?

Marvin Pratt?

Tom Barrett?

The other candidates?

Milwaukee has had only two elected mayors in over 40 years, do you hope this next mayor will bring the needed changes the city needs or will the new mayor be more of the same kind of leadership Milwaukee has had over the last 5 decades?

A proposal to create an African-American cultural and entertainment district on Milwaukee's North Side is back in the spotlight. A group of community leaders is spearheading the initiative, trying to bring life into the proposal which was stalled four years ago due to neighborhood concerns.

The proposal for the district calls for a concentration of retsuarants, nightclubs, theaters, and retail uses in the heart of the city's African-American community. The district is planned to build on the momentum of revitalization and reinvestment that had occurred on nearby N. Dr. Martin Luther King Drive. The district is proposed for a stretch of blocks along W. North Avenue, between I-43 and MLK Drive. Already in the neighborhood is the America's Black Holocaust Museum.

The district proposal is known as 21st Century Bronzeville; a reference to Milwaukee's original Bronzeville district--a cluster of black-owned clubs, theaters and other businesses that thrived in the 1950s a few blocks to the south (which was bulldozed to make room for the freeway).

Have a look at the Journal Sentinel article for more: Plan for entertainment district back on table - Meetings seek public input on development for King Drive area (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/feb04/206843.asp)


In other development news, a study claims visitors of the Harley-Davidson museum would bring an estimated $39 million yearly into the metropolitan area by spending money for food, beverages, hotels, entertainment, and other services.

See the Journal Sentinel article for the details: $39 million impact seen from Harley museum - New study estimates visitors' yearly spending (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/feb04/207238.asp)


And yet still more, some new news about New Land Enterprises' propsal for a Downtown residnetial project on N. Marshall and N. Cass Streets, a few blocks inland from the lake (announced a few weeks ago in this thread).

The $38 million development, called City Green, will be built in three phases. A 10-story building with 44 condos could break ground later this year and be completed by summer 2005. A second phase calls for an 8-story building with 48 condos; and a third phase will be a 6-story apartment building with 42 units. Also included will be 6200 square feet of retail space and a parking garage (mostly underground) for 364 spaces, which includes spaces for City Green residents as well as the general public (to replace the spaces lost when the City-owned surface lot is be redeveloped).

Another New Land project on the East Side, the Sterling Condominiums (at N. Farwell and E. Royall Place), will break ground later this year as well.

Check out the Journal Sentinel for more: Condo, apartment project planned for downtown - Development, to be built in 3 phases, would also include retail space (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/feb04/207445.asp)

Several exciting possibilities for Downtown retail developments are reported in today's Business Journal:

- Department of City Development officials and other community leaders have been shopping for retail development on the block bounded by W. Michigan Street, N. Plankinton Avenue, W. Clybourn, and N. 2nd Street. DCD is hoping to attract a department store from Kohl's and a grocery store from Whole Foods.

Just the other day I mentioned how ideal it would be if Kohl's would build downtown (since they're a nationally-known, locally-based chain from Menomonee Falls), and how unfortunate it is they don't do urban stores. According to the article, it seems Kohl's is now considering building small urban stores as part of a new national expansion strategy.

Grocery retailer Whole Foods previously considered entering the Milwaukee market with a downtown store a few years ago, but dropped the search. With an increased residential base in Downtown and neighborhoods to the south, they just might renew their search.

- Across the street on N 2nd Street, the development group Wispark owns a vacant three-story building and surface parking lot. Wispark has not yet released any plans to redevelop the properties, but could do so in the future.

- Ivory Tusk Management is seeking tenants for ground-floor retail space in the little art deco styled parking garage at the corner of N. Plankinton Avenue and W. Michigan Street.

- And the main Downtown retail venue, The Shops of Grand Avenue (formerly known as Grand Avenue Mall), has almost completed its own renovations that will include soon-to-open TJMaxx, Linens 'n Things, and Old Navy stores as major tenants.

Read all about it (scroll down, two-pager): Primed for Kohl's - Wispark buys site in Westown that could spur retail activity (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/02/16/story1.html?page=1)

Last October, Weas Development proposed a small mixed-use project with condos and street-level retail for a prominent riverside site in Walker's Point at E. Seeboth and S. Water Streets. The site is currently occupied by a small brick warehouse dating back to the early 1870s.

A group of preservationists has managed to secure temporary historic designation for the warehouse, saving it from being demolished, for now. Those who feel it should be saved believe it is an important historical artifact reflecting the neighborhood's development, and a good example of Italianate commercial building style. The Historic Preservation Commission has 90 days to decide if the warehouse should receive a permanent historic statuts. Should the Common Council accept such recommendation, the building cannot be demolished without permission from the HPC.

Weas Development contends the warehouse is historically and architecturally insignificant because it has been altered many times over the years. The firm's proposal is a $20 million building, called 100 Seeboth, designed by Tod Williams Billie Tsien & Associates from New York City.

See the Journal Sentinel artcile for more: Condo project stumbles on historic designation (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/feb04/208293.asp)

Here is a photo of the existing warehouse in the foreground. In the background, across Water Street, are the new Waterfront Condominiums. Just out of frame to the right is a former foundry complex, which will be redeveloped into another mixed-use project (reported elsewhere in this thread).

http://www.archidose.org/Jan04/twbta3.jpg


Here is a rendering of the 100 Seeboth proposal, showing the facades along Seeboth and Water Streets.

http://www.archidose.org/Jan04/twbta1.jpg


A view of the riverside facade and RiverWalk plaza.

http://www.archidose.org/Jan04/twbta2.jpg


I don't necessarily think the warehouse is all that worthy of being saved. However, I do not like the proposed building all that much either--because it essentially ignores the streetscape with massive almost-entirely-blank facades. That's a big no-no in urban development, especially if there's supposed to be street-level retail, which needs lots of windows. This is also a very prominent site, as it is located right at the gateway into Walker's Point--right on the river, right on Water Street, right on 1st Street, right in front of a small plot of land that would make a great little public plaza once the other buildings fronting that space are spruced up. This is not the location for a building that turns its back on the street.

While I'll give the design a few points for not being another retro throwback that could mimic authentic historical buildings in the neighborhood, it is still mediocre at best.

At long last, more information and renderings have been released for the proposed Pier Wisconsin project! Early designs for the project were criticized for being too similar to the Milwaukee Art Museum addition designed by Santiago Calatrava, for obstructing lake views with its tall tent-like sturcture and blank walls, and other design issues. As a result, a design competition was held last year and Pire Wisconsin selected a scheme by Jim Shields of HGA.

Assuming there are no more major obstacles to overcome, and pending approval at an upcoming Common Council meeting, Pier Wisconsin could break ground late this spring, with completion expected in late-2005.

Read through the Journal Sentinel article for all kinds of detailed information about the design scheme:
Unfurling Pier Wisconsin - New design delights advocates of project, as well as critics of previous plan (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/feb04/209432.asp)

The photorendering below shows an overall view of the Pier Wisconsin site:

At left center is Veteran's Park. (A veterans group is proposing to dock retired Navy heavy cruiser USS Des Moines there (not pictured). See my post in this thread from a couple weeks ago about their proposal.)
At left is the Milwaukee County War Memorial building.
Next to the War Memorial, is the low-slung, addition to the Milwaukee Art Museum
In front of the Art Museum lays the Cudahy Gardens, lined with fountains.
To the right of the Art Museum, jutting out into the lake, is Municipal Pier--occupied by Pieces of Eight restaurant on the left side and the proposed Pier Wisconsin complex on the right side.
Behind Pier Wisconsin is a new breakwater/walkway which will be used for docking boats of many sizes, including lake-going cruise ships.


http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/feb04/pierbig022104.jpg


The Pier Wisconsin complex consists of two major buildings. The low-lying rectangular building will house Discovery World Museum, an interactive science education center (which is currently located Downtown, next to the Milwaukee Public Museum (which could lead to possible expansion space for the MPM in the future??)). The cylindical-shaped building is the Great Lakes Aquatarium, which would focuse on marine education. Note the stairway/seating bowl that steps down to the water level.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/feb04/pierabig022104.jpg


The rendering below shows the south side of the complex, with Discovery World in the foreground and the Aquaterium in the background. The glass walls along the ground level will open up onto a terraced boardwalk and public boat dock.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/feb04/pierbbig022104.jpg


The "great lawn" fronting the complex is the Jeffry Alan Posner Park--which will connect with the formal Cudahy Gardens of the Art Museum across the street (just out of shot, to the left). It will also be the "cap" to the underground parking garage for the complex.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/feb04/piercbig022104.jpg

After looking at the proposed Pier Wisconsin project and listening to the Wagner program on the Radio, He posed some very good questions. Where are the support interests? How do you plan to attract people to go to the lakefront? Is it just going to be a park and Museum or is there going to be more?

Those are some questions I'd like to see an answer to. Because I didn't hear any mention of other projects that may funnel people into this new venture. Are there any entrepeneurs who want to build small restaurants and cafe's and novelty shops within proximity of this new venture? And how bout other services like hotels? Is there going to be space for future possible office space and condo's within walking distance of this new venture? What is going to keep people going to this venture when it is no longer new? Has there been any thought about those support interests? I don't want to rain on anyone's parade but really those support interests will really determine if this project is going to be a long term success or another try and missed opportunity to do something more lasting.

Double post...

Originally posted by man from Oshkosh
How do you plan to attract people to go to the lakefront?

It's the lakefront, people are already attracted to the area. People go there all the time for recreation (biking, boating, jogging, walking, etc.). Not to mention there's already other draws to that part of the lakefront (the War Memorial Center, the Art Museum, the Denis Sullivan schooner, the Betty Brinn Children's Museum, not to mention the other proposals I posted a couple weeks ago, assuming they'd get built).

Is it just going to be a park and Museum or is there going to be more?

It's a Great Lakes education center--museum, exhibit space, classrooms, labs, auditorium/lecture halls, aquariums (which will definitely bring in a steady stream of students of all ages, plus tourists). The Discovery World center is an interactive science museum, which has been attracting students, residents, and tourists for years (DW is just being relocated to this site).

The maratime museum up in Manitowoc is a similar, but scaled-back facility--and gets lots of tourists. The big draw there is the WWII submarine, plus the maritime/boat museum.

Pier Wisconsin's big draw is the Dennis Sullivan schooner, plus the education center (exhibits on freshwater lake environment, aquatarium, etc.) , plus the regular science museum.

Are there any entrepeneurs who want to build small restaurants and cafe's and novelty shops within proximity of this new venture? And how bout other services like hotels? Is there going to be space for future possible office space and condo's within walking distance of this new venture?

There won't (and shouldn't) be any such private developments built right on the immediate lakefront because of the Public Trust Doctrine found in the Wisconsin Constitution--which says that the waters of the state belong to the people and must remain "forever free." Courts and the DNR have interpreted that dictum to prohibit major commercial, residential, and industrial development right on the lakefront, much of which is built on filled lakebed. Any development on that land must be for public use--such as the educational, cultural, and recreational centers already there (the notable excpetion, which was grandfathered into the law when it was written is the Pieces of Eight restaurant which stands across the street from the Pier Wisconsin site).

That being said, as things exist now, restaurants are probably the most predominant and closest supporting services to the site (Pieces-of-Eight, the place inside the Art Museum, the place in O'Donnell Park, plus others on nearby streets). Existing hotels are a bit further away, but certainly within very convenient walking, transit, or driving distance (but that point is moot, since tourists are already drawn to the lakefront attractions--the Art Museum, festival grounds, parks--regardless of their hotels being further inland. Parking exists in the garage beneath O'Donnell Park and other nearby lots, plus Pier Wisconsin will have it's own underground garage--so that's not a probelm. Office and residential uses are the least important to the Pier Wisconsin project--nearby residents and office workers aren't going to visit the Aquatarium or Discovery World on a daily basis (they aren't the target market), so they aren't really "support services" at all.

That's not to say the area around Pier Wisconsin couldn't use more restaurants or hotels nearby--but that's why it's a catalyst project, because it has the potential to attract such developments nearby in the future. And until then, people will use the services that are available to them right now--which they do anyway.

What is going to keep people going to this venture when it is no longer new?

It's an educational and research center--drawing people in won't be a problem, it's got a built-in draw (schoolchildren, researchers, etc.). Plus the schooner is a very big draw. Plus the other attraction previously mentioned.

Has there been any thought about those support interests? I don't want to rain on anyone's parade but really those support interests will really determine if this project is going to be a long term success or another try and missed opportunity to do something more lasting.

This project has been in the works for several years, of course these things have been considered.

Anyway, some links...

Pier Wisconsin (http://www.pierwisconsin.org)

Discovery World Museum (http://www.discoveryworld.org/home.html)

Hi

Just letting y'all know, I've posted a thread of Milwaukee pics:

http://onlinerock.com/clubs/maharajblah//mil02.jpg (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1376506)
(click pic to go to thread) (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1376506)


Peace,
Jai

Architecture/urban design/landscape critic Whitney Gould of the Journal Sentinel offers her critique of the Pier Wisconsin design. Read it: Lakefront projects can be done right (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/feb04/211352.asp)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/feb04/pierwis022904.jpg


For the most part, I like this design a lot better than the original (posted a while back in this thread). I hope the "great lawn" area in front of Discovery World turns into something more than just a grassy plot of land, though--it's too blank-looking in the renderings. The project's relation to the Pieces of Eight restaurant/parking lot looks a bit awkward too.

Markitect, Sorry for the late reply to your posting answers. I want to make sure that what I say is properly understood. The main reason I asked the questions I did is that I want to know just what relationship is going to take place if this supposed project takes place? I remember when the Bradley center was built and how everything was going to be alright between the Bradley Center board and the MECCA board. 14 Years later and the Bradley center wanting to upgrade and maybe add a theater or what ever. look at what (or who) is standing in the way of making the necessary improvments but the Wisconsin center board what MECCA later became. I am not saying this will happen with pier Wisconsin. But there is a history in Milwaukee that what is seen as progress at that moment turns into a reclaimation project 10 to 15 years later.

As for the support interests question I posed. I Never said anything about stick built establishments on the pier Wisconsin property. Now if there were some permission for some carted vendors ro be allowed to sell their services on this property well I personally see no problem with that but again nothing has been said about even that prospect. My question is How well pier Wisconsin will relate with its closest neighbors and will it actively support the goals some of those neighbors may have as far as development go's.

Don't get me wrong I like your optunistic view of this project. I remain somewhat sceptical due to all the hassles it does take for some progress to be made in Milwaukee. Let me just say when I hear that this project comes to be and pier Wisconsin becomes an active (and possitive) member of the Milwaukee cummunity and not a road block to progress that it may become if it is an off standish project that only has the narrow point of view of what is just good for pier Wisconsin and not for the city. Then maybe this project will be the spear head of better things to come for the city and not another stab at what may appear to be progress. In a nutshell I hope your assessment is right and that I am proven wrong.

Downtown Milwaukee (and the proposed Ovation Center) loses out to Wauwatosa (and the Milwaukee County Research Park) as the relocation site for GE Medical's headquarters.

Why?

Parking seems to have been a primary reason. The Downtown site requires an additional expense of constructiong a parking garage, whereas the suburban site offers plenty of space for surface lots.

Outrageous.

On the plus side, it's good for Milwaukee County and Wauwatosa, as GE MEdical will be closer to the city than it was scattered in Waukesha County. And it will be located very close to the Milwaukee Regional Medical Center, which seems to make sense.

However, the future of the Ovation Center remains uncertain, as it must now continue searching for a major tenant before it can become anything but a proposal on paper.

Read it and weep, in the Journal Sentinel: GE Medical unit picks Tosa site as new home - 1,300 jobs will move to county research park (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/mar04/211793.asp)

Downtown Milwaukee lost out to suburban Wauwatosa for GE Medical's new headquarters due to excessive costs:

- A smaller site limits the amount of land available for storage of equipment/materials and staging areas during the construction process.

- A smaller site means the building must be built upwards, rather than outwards--taller buildings costs more money to build.

- A taller building means stricter building and fire safety codes, thereby increasing the cost of building.

- Soil conditions near the Downtown site require more expensive foundation work.

- A Downtown site requires a multi-level parking garage, making the building more expensive.

The City refused GE Medical's request for a subsidy to cover a $43 million parking structure. Such a high figure was too much for the City to finance. Such a subsidy could create a precedent for other developers looking for massively expensive handouts too, at taxpayer's expense.

See the Journal Sentinel article for more details: High cost doomed downtown site for GE Medical - City wouldn't OK $43 million for parking structure (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/mar04/212336.asp)


Changes are brewing with PabstCity, as demolition work will commence this spring. Some of the more modern and unusable buildings in the former brewery complex will come down to make room for new construction.

Developers have also decided to de-emphasize a few of the entertainment-based features, and focus some more attention on residential units.

Plans for a 2800-seat outdoor amphiateater have been scrapped, as developers realized it would have competed with other performance venues in and around Downtown. Plans for an ice skating rink have melted away, as well.

Here are the latest stats for PabstCity:

- Housing (447,000 sqft): 360 apartments, 190 condominiums.

The apartments are expected to be especially attractive to students attending MATC, MSOE, and Marquette University, all of which are nearby.

- Office (55,000 sqft)

- Retail and entertainment (450,000 sqft)

Prospective tenants so far include a House of Blues restaurant/nightclub, Sega GameWorks arcade/restaurant/bar, Hofbrauhaus microbrewery and restaurant, a museum of beer and brewing, and a 14-18 screen movie theater. Negotiatins are still in progress.

Check out the Journal Sentinel article for more: PabstCity to focus more on condos - Plans for amphitheater, ice rink dropped (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/mar04/212331.asp)

Lots of articles to share today...

The Journal Sentinel reviews Downtown development along W. Wisconsin Avenue, covering the residential loft conversions to revitalizing retail activity at the Shops of Grand Avenue, and the challenges these effotrs and future efforts must overcome:

Seeds of growth are taking root west of the river - But Wisconsin Ave. faces big challenges (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/mar04/214224.asp)

Grand, but different - Fresh hope for city's downtown mall (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/mar04/214225.asp)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/mar04/avenueG031304.gif


Two articles from the Business Journal focus specifically on residential development in Downtown and Third Ward neighborhoods:

Who's moving downtown? - Condos attracting a range of demographics, from retirees to empty-nesters and professionals (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/03/15/focus1.html)

Modern condos with a past - 3rd Ward's Commission House maintains historic atmosphere within residential units (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/03/15/focus3.html)

The Journal Sentinel reports Pier Wisconsin is a go: Pier Wisconsin design wins council OK - May groundbreaking seen for lakefront project (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/mar04/215892.asp)

Downtown Milwaukee is another step closer to getting a new hotel. The Common Council voted to sell the City-owned surface parking lot for $1 to developers who plan to construct a 225-room Sheraton Hotel on the lot. Selling certain underutilized parcels to developers for one dollar is a popular method the City uses to subsidize development.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/mar04/hotelbig032404.jpg

The prominent Downtown site, along W. Wisconsin Avenue between N. 4th and 5th Streets is across the street from the Midwest Airlines Center. The block has been a "temporary" surface lot for some 20 years, when the buildings which once stood there were razed as part of the Grand Avenue Mall project--the block was slated for future mall expansion that never happened. Since then, other efforts to build a hotel on the site surfaced, but fell through.

Read the Journal Sentinel article for more details: City sells downtown site for $1 - Common Council approves sale to developers who plan 255-room Sheraton (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/mar04/217054.asp)

Developers of Columbia Square point out that it doesn't make much sense to create affordable housing with unaffordable energy costs, so they are incorporating some basic environmentally sensitive design concepts into the project. Thus the design calls for extra-thick walls for insulation; an emphasis on natural lighting with large windows and skylights which will minimize the need for artificial lighting; landscaping to control runoff; and using certain recyclable building materials.

While it's nothing fancy or high-tech, there are some often overlooked strategies for any kind of development, let alone for affordable housing.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/mar04/greenb032504.jpg

The mixed-use development will be built on a vacant block in the heart of the inner city, at W. North Avenue and N. 33rd Street. Possible tenants for the street-level retail space include a cafe, an accounting firm, and a shoe store. The two floors above will consist of 22 one- and two-bedroom units. Groundbreaking is next moneth, and completion expected by December or early-2005.

Check out the Journal Sentinel article for all the details: 'Green' apartments to save renters' green, too - Affordable housing development to be built energy-efficient (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/mar04/217419.asp)


A special task force sponsored by Mayor Pratt, County Executive Walker, and several Downtown business gorups will be put together to study the possibility of moving Potawatomi Bingo Casino into Downtown. The Indian casino is currently located on W. Canal Street in the Menomonee Valley. Supporters say a Donwtown casino would boost other existing and future developments in the area, attracting more hotels and would revive stalled plansfor the convention center's third phase. However, there are several hurdles to overcome, regardless of the task force's recommendation.

Potawatomi officials are cautiously interested in relocating. The future of any and all tribal gambling facilities in the state hinges on a yet-to-be-decided lawsuit in the Wisconsin Supreme Court; a decision which is not excpected to be made until this summer. Regardless of the Court's decision, the tribe would still need to seek approval from the Federal government to move--something that's rarely been done and could take several years to accomplish. In addition, the tribe already has plans to once again expand its casino facilities on the current site in the Valley--which were put on hold due to the Supreme Court case.

Have a read through the Journal Sentinel article for specifics: Group to consider downtown casino - Pratt, Walker endorse study, but tribe won't consider move until after lawsuits are resolved (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/mar04/217369.asp)

And also check out the article from the Business Journal: Task force to condiser relocating casino to downtown Milwaukee (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/03/22/daily30.html)


Milwaukee's mayoral candidates express their rather uninformed opinions about urban design in an artcile from today's Journal Sentinel. They seem to have a somewhat vague notion about the concepts of urban design and they physical built environment, but neither Mayor Pratt, nor his oppontent Tom Barrett seem to be as passionate on this issue as former-Mayor Norquist was (and still is, in his new position as head of the Congress for the New Urbanism).

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/mar04/6thbig032504.jpg

Do Pratt and Barrett have enough passion to demand rational, high-quality development...or will they simply take a development for development's sake approach? Are they willing to take a stand against the mediocre designs for infrastructure projects (like the 6th Street Viaduct--traffic/bridge engineers originally planned for a standard, boring concrete bridge to pass over the entire Valley--Norquist fought for a better design and obviously got it), or will they let uninspired designs for infrasturcuture proejects pass without aesthetic consideration?

See what they have to say, and some words of wisdom from others about how they should approach the issue if elected: Candidates share interest in urban landscape - But their blueprints for change lack inspiration, drive of predecessor (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/mar04/217377.asp)

The Business Journal of Milwaukee

Tosa plan could reach $85 million

By Pete Millard
The Business Journal of Milwaukee
Updated: 8:00 p.m. ET April 04, 2004

Milwaukee County officials are optimistic a plan to create an $85 million commercial development near Highway 45 in Wauwatosa will get off the ground in 2004.

The Wauwatosa community development committee approved a master plan March 30 for developing the county-owned property north of the Milwaukee Regional Medical Complex.

The master plan will be presented to the Wauwatosa Common Council April 6 for approval. The Milwaukee County Board plans to review the development proposal in May and will issue a request for proposals this summer.

Milwaukee County economic development officials expect to see about 850,000 square feet of commercial space constructed on the site with an estimated value of $85 million. One of the anchor developments for the property will be a proposed 180-room hotel and convention center.

"The ideal situation is for one big company to get interested in the site and buy it, but we realize that is a remote possibility," said Bill Hatcher, the county's director of economic development.

The Wauwatosa master plan calls for developers of the site to preserve three existing Eschweiler buildings on the property that were constructed in the early 1900s. Alexander Eschweiler was a Milwaukee architect who designed more than a dozen buildings in downtown Milwaukee.

"The idea behind the master plan is to strike a balance between the economic drivers and the environmental and ecological concerns for the property," said Wauwatosa Mayor Terry Estness.

The county estimates the property will fetch about $250,000 an acre, said Hatcher. If the 70-acre property sells for that figure, the county would generate $17.5 million for the land.

The county property on the east side of Highway 45 near the Milwaukee Regional Medical Center will not be developed in the same way the Milwaukee County Research Park was developed on the west side of Highway 45, said Estness. The new development will have a much lower density, she said.

'Green building'

The master plan contains several "green building" strategies that will minimize the environmental impact of building on the property, said Nancy Welch, director of community development for Wauwatosa. One example is that Wauwatosa is promoting a new parking lot pavement that allows stormwater to penetrate through the lot into the ground.

Buildings that are constructed on the property cannot be more than two stories high unless they border Watertown Plank Road. Buildings along Watertown Plank Road can be four stories high. The plan also dictates that the design of buildings must be similar to the design of the Eschweiler buildings already on the site.

"The research park was a product of the 1980s," said Welch. "I don't think anyone wants to see another research park across the highway. We are going to do something more environmentally innovative with the new development."

The city's master plan for the county-owned property covers 70 acres that will be developed. The county owns a total of 235 acres in what is called the northeast quadrant of the Milwaukee County Grounds.

The Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District plans to acquire 90 acres of the county property for a detention pond and the county is using 65 acres for an urban forest education center in partnership with the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources. Another 10 acres is consumed by rights of way and highway buffer zones.

Preliminary/schematic design renderings for the Downtown Sheraton hotel proposal are critiqued in today's Journal Sentinel. So far, the design leaves much to be desired for such a highly visible site along W. Wisconsin Avenue, across the street from the convention center. Though, the rendering is more of a very "rough draft" than anything close to being considered the final design, accoridng to architects at Engberg Anderson Design Partnership.

Some pluses of the design include putting parking behind the building, rather than out in front; and special attention to the street level, with mixed-uses (cafe/restaurant) and large, glassy windows instread of blank walls. Though the overall composition of the design seems to be rather anonymous-looking.

It definitely will take some coaxing to get the Sheraton hotel chain to stray from its lackluster design format. With help from the project architects/developers, as well as the Department of City Development, the developers, and even soon-to-be-Mayor Barrett could convince the Sheraton owners to think a little more out-of-the-box.

Since this is still very early on in the design process, there may be room for some design leeway.

See the article for the full critique: Downtown hotel developers could be squandering a chance to shine (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/apr04/221654.asp)

This is a preliminary rendering of the current Sheraton proposal, looking at the corner of N. 4th Street and W. Wisconsin Avenue.
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/apr04/sherbig041104.jpg

Here is a rendering of the previous Embassy Suites proposal (from 1999, which subsequently fell through), looking along the N. 5th Street facade.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/image/embassybig112999.jpg

After nearly a year of negotiating and environmental clean-up efforts, work on the Historic Teweles Seed Tower has finally begun. The former 12-story warehouse, with its distinctive exposed concrete frame, is located in Walker's Point on S. 3rd Street. It will be converted into 115 apartment units; a two-stoy penthouse addition will be built on the roof.

Developers have laid out a variety of units (studios, one-, two-, and three-bedrooms) to target residnets with a variety of incomes. Through the use of affordable housing tax credits, many of the units will be made avaialble at below market rate rents for lower-income residents, while other units will be available at regular market rates--thereby creating a mixed-income development.

Parking will be mostly contained in the basemet and first two floors (100 spaces), plus a few outdoor spots (18 spaces). The project will also include a computer lab, community room, exercise room, and theater for residnets.

Teweles Seed Tower is the latest in a series of warehouse-to-residnetial conversions completed, in progress, or proposed in Walker's Point--spillover from similar projects across the river in the Third Ward.

Check out the Business Journal article for more (scroll all the way down, it's a two-pager): Teweles Seed project finally starts to grow - Developers start conversion into apartment complex (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/04/12/story6.html)

The Teweles Seed Building was built in 1918. It has a 12-story tower, plus a 7-story wing attached.
http://people.msoe.edu/~reyer/mke/1918bs.jpg

A rendering of the Historic Teweles Seed Tower, showing the residnetial conversion.
http://www.commonbond.org/FindHousing/property_images/TST.jpg

Looks much better I think, it really needs the paint job. The 7 story attached wing is a great addition!

Looks much better I think, it really needs the paint job. The 7 story attached wing is a great addition!

I don't really think they're going to paint the brick walls a different color--it's just the way the rendering was drawn. They might clean up the bricks a bit (sandblast all the soot and crud off of them), but I doubt they'll go through the trouble of painting the brown bricks red.

And the building already has the 7-story wing--that's not a new addition.

http://www.nba.com/media/bucks/bucks_hp_hdr6.jpg

I hope Milwaukee beats Detroit. :D

edit- oops! wrong thread :wallbash:

mods, feel free to delete this post

so far its 48-41 Milwaukee

man, my loyalty's torn :D

Thanks to the help of Wisconsin Representative Paul Ryan (Janesville), the Milwaukee Public Market has received a long-awaited $2.5 million federal grant. With funding falling into place, the market will likely break ground this June and be completed by June 2005.

The site is located in the Third Ward, along E. St. Paul Avenue between N. Water Street and N. Broadway. The market will feature stalls for local farmers and retailers selling fruits, vegetables, meats, fish, cheese, flowers, among other items.

See the Journal Sentinel article for more: Third Ward market gets key funding - Grant may enable project to break ground in June (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/apr04/224222.asp)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jan04/marketbig011504.jpg

JS

Developers propose Bay View condos
Firm also plans to build retail space nearby

By TOM DAYKIN
tdaykin@journalsentinel.com
Posted: May 3, 2004

A development firm that plans to build new retail space in Milwaukee's Bay View neighborhood also has disclosed a proposal for 14 nearby condominiums.

Big Bend Development LLC wants to build the townhouse-style condos on city-owned land along the south side of E. Bay St., west of S. Allis St. The 1,500-square-foot units would sell for roughly $190,000 to $230,000, said Randy Scoville, a Big Bend Development partner.

Big Bend's plans were to be reviewed Monday by the city Plan Commission.

However, that action was postponed at the request of Ald. Tony Zielinski, who represents Bay View, after some neighboring property owners raised concerns about plans for the land.

The Department of City Development now plans to publicly request competing proposals for the property given the high level of interest among developers, said department spokesman Bill Zaferos. Scoville said his firm would again submit its proposal to city officials.

Scoville said Bay View's affordable, attractive housing stock and its short distance from downtown are among the factors that draw attention from residential developers.

As Bay View continues to rejuvenate itself with new homeowners, it will continue to attract retail development, Scoville said.

Big Bend continues to pursue plans for new retail at the southwest corner of S. Kinnickinnic Ave. and E. Becher St., one block west of the firm's proposed condo development.

Big Bend in 2002 began marketing the Kinnickinnic Ave. site to retailers. Those initial efforts drew little interest, so the firm later entered into a partnership with General Capital Group LLP to build 77 apartments for seniors and up to 4,900 square feet of retail space on the vacant lot.

Those plans were opposed by the Bay View Business Association, whose members said the land should be developed largely for retail use.

Scoville said the senior housing plans recently were dropped after the development was unable to obtain affordable housing tax credits to help finance the project.

A lot's been going on the past few days...

Wisconsin is expected to receive $150 million worth of federal tax credits, which will be used to help developers finance projects in low-income areas across the state. Cities in southeastern Wisconsin would likely receive a bulk of the credits, as that's where many of the poorest areas are located. Credits targeted for Milwaukee could likely go toward several major sites (Park East corridor, PabstCity, the Menomonee Valley, the Tower Automotive complex) and/or other smaller neighborhood projects.

See the Journal Sentinel article for more: State gets $150 million aimed at development in poor areas (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/may04/227401.asp)

***

Mayor Barrett officially proposed to consolidate and relocated some Department of Public Works facilities to the underutilized Tower Automotive factory complex--an idea he often mentioned during his recent campaign. The plan calls for relocating DPW's Traser Yards facility that now stands at 6th and West Canal Streets in the Menomonee Valley to make way for the proposed Harley-Davidson motorcycle museum/office complex. Also included in the site-consolidation are two Water Works facilities.

The Tower Automotive site (formerly A.O. Smith) is located on the Northwest Side, bounded by W. Capitol Drive, N. 35th, N. Hopkins, and W. Townsend Streets. Tower Automotive's operations have downsized significanly over the past few years, as the company has disconsinued or shifted production to other places (earlier this year the compnay announced it was shifting one of its last production lines to Mexico), thus most of the factory complex is sitting underutilized. Relocating some DPW facilties there would bring jobs and much-needed commerce to the depressed neighborhood, and would likely be a catalyst for new development in the area.

The Common Council is discussing the idea.

Here's an article from the Journal Sentinel: Tower site proposal would cost $24 million - Mayor seeks to move city employees to complex (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/may04/228729.asp)

And another from the Business Journal: Barrett proposes moving Traser Yards to Tower site (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/05/10/daily22.html)

***

In other news, Mayor Barrett will hold off looking into a Downtown casino--at least for the time being. Several months ago a group of politicians and business groups proposed moving the Potawotomi Bingo Casino out of the Menomonee Valley and into a site Downtown, in the Park East corridor. The Potowatomi tribe, however, was not involved with the proposal. Acting-Mayor Pratt and County Executive Scott Walker created a task force in late-March to study the feasability of the idea, which was expected to reveal its findings on May 15--but the task force has never met.

To further complicate matters, there are two active court cases challenging expanded state-tribal gaming compacts that regulate the casinos. The state Court of Appeals is expected to give its rulings on the cases this summer.

Mayor Barrett supports the idea of studying the feasability of a casino relocation, but feels it would make more sense to actually have the Potawatomi tribe involved with the relocation study (nobody's really ever asked them, it's just been non-tribal people making suggestions) and also after the court has made a ruling on the future of tirbal casinos.

Check out the Journal Sentinel article for specifics: Barrett puts downtown casino on back burner - Park East, other issues will take precedence (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/may04/228779.asp)

***

Coincidentally, the Potawatomi tribe has just announced a $240 million expansion plan for its Milwaukee casino. The tribe will begin preliminary design work, but will hold off on construction pending the aforementioned court rulings due this summer. This will allow the tribe to get a "head start" on the expansion, should the rulings come out in their favor.

In the meantime, the tribe will be doing some minor construction work to support its current operations in the Menonomee Valley--in the form of a parking garage addition.

Read it in the Business Journal (scroll down, two-pager): Potawatomi tribe announces $240 million casino plan (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/05/10/daily33.html?page=1)

***

And still in other news, Mayor Barrett has appointed a top position in the Department of City Development--Bob Greenstreet has been selected to become City Architect/Planner. Greenstreet is currently dean at the UW-Milwaukee School of Architecture and Urban Planning, and welcomes the challenge of taking on both jobs simultaneously. He's no stranger to such arrangements either (he's been dean for SARUP, acting-dean for the art school, and chairman of the City Plan Commission--all simultaneously; he's also been dean for SARUP, interim-chancellor for UWM, and chairman of the City Plan Commission--all simultaneously; and also had a lighter work load as dean for SARUP and chairman for the City Plan Commission--both simultaneoulsy...plus teaching, or at least guest-lecturing, plus being a family-man, etc). Under the new arrangement, however, he will have to step down as chairman for the City Plan Commission.

The details still have to be worked out, as far as exactly what kind of services Greenstreet will have to perform, and how the interaction between his jobs will work. They may try an arrangement where the City contracts with UWM for Greenstreet's services as architect/planner for Milwaukee--which may be the first arrangemetn of its kind, ever, anywhere.

The connection between the City and SARUP is already pretty strong. A few years ago former-Mayor Norquist taught an introductory urban planning class for a couple semesters. Former- Director of DCD Peter Park also taught several classes and studios over the past few years (he was whisked away to a top planning job in Devener a few months ago--Greenstreet will be his replacement at DCD). The school has been a "testing ground" of sorts for many projects throughout the city that have become a reality, or will become a reality (East Pointe Commons, the Park East Freeway redevelopment, the Milwaukee Public Market, the RiverWalk, to name a few).

Once the legal deatils are figured out, the appointment must be approved by the Common Council, perhaps by the end of the month.

Have a look through the Journal Sentinel article and get to know Dean Greenstreet: Barrett picks UWM's Greenstreet as city's architect - Town-gown partnership would share dean's services (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/may04/228790.asp)

According to a report released by the Wisconsin Legislative Audit Bureau, developing some of the surface parking lots at Miller Park could be a good way for the Brewers to increase revenue and attract possible buyers for the team, which is currently up for sale. Suggested uses include restaurants/bars, retail stores, hotels, and parking garages to replace the displaced parking spaces.

The land upon which the stadium and parking lots sit is owned by the State, which in turn is leased to an entity known as the Southeast Wisconsin Professional Baseball Park District, which in turn is leased to the Brewers. Under the commercial development plan, the Brewers would receive the proceeds from the land that is subleased to developers and/or tenants.

Read more about it in the Business Journal (three-pages): Field of development?: Development in stadium lots would benefit Brewers (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/05/17/story1.html?page=1)

The Brewers should definitiely consider this option, not only for their own benefit, but for taking a more responsible approach to how their stadium and surrounding property can be developed to benefit the City as well. It makes sense to develop the parking lot areas that are close to the stadium with these complimentary uses, rather than building a retail/restaurant/shopping mall project way over on the adjacent non-stadium land on the extreme far side of the parking lots, like was proposed in various incarnations several years back (on the former Milwaukee Road Shops/Rail Yard land--where planning is well underway to redevelop for an urban industrial/office/recreational park).

***

Trader Joe's, a discount/gourmet grocery store is looking for sites in Milwaukee and Madison to build a few stores.

Also from the Business Journal: Trader Joe's seeks grocery sites in Milwaukee (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/05/17/story5.html)

***

Alderman Michael D'Amato has been appointed the new chairman for the Zoning, Neighborhoods & Development Committee, which oversees how architects, developers, planners, builders, organizations, and residents shape the city. One of the committee's biggest jobs is reviewing development proposals.

Some of the major issues D'Amato will be dealing with include the heavily-debated community benefits agreements proposed to be attached to developments in the Park East corridor (he supports the prevailing wages clause, but not the afforable housing mandate); the controversial Harley-Davidon Museum proposal (he feels there are site design issues that do not promote the highest and best use for the location); and the Granville Station/former Northridge Mall redevelopment (emphasising a need to focus attention on areas other than just Downtown and near-Downtown neighborhoods).

The Business Journal has a profile and interview wih D'Amato, outlining some of the goals he hopes to accomplish (three-pages): Norquist protégé takes helm of development panel - D'Amato chairs powerful committee facing Harley, Park East issues (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/05/17/story6.html?page=1)

***

Mayor Tom Barrett and County Executive Scott Walker will be attending the annual International Council of Shopping Centers convention to promote the Milwaukee area to national/international retailers.

More details in the Business Journal (two-pager): Barrett, Walker shop local sites to dealmakers (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/05/17/newscolumn1.html?page=1)

***

Trouble is brewing at PabstCity. Local investor/developer James Haertel has filed a lawsuit against his much larger partners, Milwaukee-based Wispark and the Cleveland-based Ferchill Group, on the basis that he has not received the ownership titles to the three buildings he was to receive under their partnetship agreement.

Under the agreement, Haertel was to receive three small buildings on the 22-acre site--the Pabst office building, gift shop, and Blue Ribbon Hall. He has plans to redevelop them into a museum of beer and brewing, a beer bed and breakfast, a Hofbrauhaus restaurant/pub, and offices. He and his crew had even uncovered old Pabst artifacts (paperwork, photos, 1940s radio show/commerical recordings, etc.) while cleaning out the old buildings. In the meantime, according to the breach-of-contract lawsuit Haertel filed, Wispark and Ferchill provided him with a set of development restrictions for the three buildings, which essentially gave them control over how they were to be redeveloped.

Negotiations between the three developers to settle the dispute during the past year have failed, which now places the entire redevelopment project in jeapordy.

See the Journal Sentinel for more: Lawsuit filed against PabstCity developers - Investor says he was pushed out of partnership plan (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/may04/230082.asp)

***

Alderman D'Amato and the aforementioned Zoning, Neighborhoods & Development Committee have concerns about Harley-Davisdon's proposed motorcycle museum at 6th and W. Canal Streets. The committee has taken issue with the large surface parking lots proposed right at the intersection and the closing of Canal Street east of 6th.

The City's Menomonee Valley redevelopment plan, released back in 1999, calls for the intersection of 6th and Canal to be a gateway into the Valley, and encourages all four corners to be built-up in some form, not reserved for parking lots. Harley's proposal shows surface lots on two of the four courners. Certain Common Council members would like to have the site plan reconfigured/reduced to avoid having surface lots on the high-visibility corner. Harley contends the lots would also be used for staging outdoor events, so they are of benefit to the public.

The City's redevelopment plan also calls for linking the eastern end of the Valley with the Walker's Point neighborhood in the future, with a bridge on Canal Street across the South Menomonee Canal. Harley's proposal actually calls for turning Canal Street east of 6th into a private street running through the museum/office complex, thus preventing a bridge linkage from ever occurring.

The Journal Sentinel has more: Harley still can't get museum into gear - With aldermen pursuing amendments, review by zoning panel postponed (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/may04/230139.asp)

The Common Council took action on two measures this Tuesday that shifts the proposed Harley-Davidson museum into a higher gear:

- The Council approved to spend $24 million to relocate the DPW's Traser Yards facility to a site within the Tower Automotive complex (along with two Water Works facilities). This move will open up the Traser Yards site for the proposed Harley museum at 6th and Canal Streets.

- The Council also approved selling the Traser Yards land, plus some other City-owned land across the street, to Harley-Davisdon (about 20 acres total, on all four corners of 6th and Canal Streets). The City will also provide about $7 million of tax incremental financing to help cover the cost of public improvements/infrastructure on the site.

Still, there are major concerns with the proposed site design (parking lots on all four corners, street access, zoning issues), which will need Council approval in the coming months. Resolving these urban design issues will be a key challenge for Harley, the Council, and the Department of City Development.

There are also still concerns about solidifying Harley's full dedication to the project, which is ultimately planned to include not just a museum, but office space as well.

As things stand now, the DPW is anticipated to be moved off-site by 2006; the museum is expected to be completed in 2008.

Check out the Journal Sentinel article for specifics: Harley museum is approved for Menomonee Valley (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/may04/232105.asp)

Once again, many articles to share today...

First up, a really great profile of Robert Greenstreet, Dean of the School of Architecture and Urban Planning at UW-Milwaukee, whom Mayor Barret recently appointed to become City Architect/Planner (pending Common Council approval).

From today's Business Journal (a four-pager): UWM's Greenstreet brings expertise, love of city to Milwaukee's future look (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/06/07/focus2.html)

***

The Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Planning Commission will once again study the possbility for a regional transit authority. The intention is to create a single entity to oversee financing, operation, planning, and development of transit issues; rather than the piecemeal, individual county-by-county, city-by-city, collection of agencies that exist today. A similar proposal in 1993 was rejected by County Boards throughout the area.

See this Business Journal article for more (two-pager): Planners revive study on regional authority for transit - Milwaukee County Board requested study to relieve property tax burden (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/06/07/story6.html)

***

Along with the growing number of riverfront condominium developments in Downtown Milwaukee, there is a growing number of riverside boat slips and marinas. Several have already been built, several are planned, and several are surely yet-to-be-proposed. A few environmental advocacy groups, while not opposed to the condo developments, are emphasizing the impotance of a riverfront plan--to better coordinate public versus private river access for pedestirans and boats, and to prevent adverse environmental effects on the city's waterways.

Read more about it in the Business Journal (three-pager): On the riverfront: Boat slips multiply with new condos along Milwaukee River (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/06/07/focus1.html)

***

Over the past several years, the condo market in and around Downtown Milwaukee has been booming with new construction, rehabilitation, and conversions. Many more condos are in progress, and many more are on the way.

Is the market saturated; has it reached its peak for now? Is it time to start focusing on other types of housing/residents? How are developers and real estate people reacting? Find out in this article form the Business Journal (two-pager): Saturation in the city: Downtown condos still hot, but boom may have peaked (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/06/07/story2.html)

***

Despite those questions, plans for condo developments forge ahead, with Keybridge Development's proposal to build a 12-story condominium project in Walker's Point. The site at 106 W. Seeboth Street is prominantly located at the confluence of the Milwaukee and Menomonee Rivers, offering commanding views of Downtown, upstream a few blocks away.

The former Terminal Storage Company building now stands on the site, which will be incorporated into the overall project. Developers are planning to use the old building mainly as street-level retail space and a 263-car parking garage, while building a 5-story residnetial addition atop the northern end and a 7-story addition atop the southern end. The $60 million project, named First Place on the River (in reference to its location at the corner of Seeboth and First Streets), will have 184 units and 24 boat slips.

The previous owner of the building had plans last year for a similar rehabilitation-and-addition condo project (called Downtown Yacht Club), but recently sold his development rights to Keybridge, who made the current proposal. The Journal Sentinel ran an article about the previous proposal in April 2003. Below are two photos from that article, showing the rooftop view from the Terminal Storage building. Downtown is to the north, in the background; the Third Ward is to the east, on the right side.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/apr03/condbig040303.jpg

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/apr03/condabig040303.jpg

See this Business Journal article for specifics (two-pager): Developer plans 12-story 3rd Ward condo (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/06/07/story1.html) (the title contains a mistake; this project is in Walker's Point, not the Third Ward)

Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker has proposed demolishing the Courthouse Annex, which looms above the northbound lanes of I-43. The monolithic building holds a large parking garage, a telephone/call switching center, and some other County offices.

Walker would like the Annex demolished at state expense, since the freeway lanes and ramps which pass beneath the building are going to be rebuilt as part of the Maruqette Interchange reconstruction project. He questions whether the monolithic concrete building, which is already deteriorating, will be able to withstand the rigors and pounding of the nearby reconstruction. He says demolishing the Annex now for $22 million will prevent the building from deteriorating further. This is compared to waiting 10 years to tear it down (theoretically, when widening/rebuilding Milwaukee's aging freeway system would take place, which proposed plans, if approved, would require demolition of the Annex anyway) at a cost of $27 million; plus an extra $20 million spent over those ten years just to hold the building together that long.

The Wisconsin Department of Transportation is not interested in paying to tear down the Annex as part of the Marquette Interchange reconstruction project, which already has an $810 million price tag.

Read more in the Journal Sentinel article: Walker wants Courthouse Annex demolished - State should do it as part of freeway job, he says (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jun04/234911.asp)

***

So where does all of the stuff housed in the Courthouse Annex supposed to go if it would be demolished? In a newly proposed $75 million building at the other end of the Civic Center. County officials are exploring the possibility of erecting a building at N. 6th and W. State Streets that would house a parking garare, retail shops, and County offices relocated from the Courthouse Annex, the Courthouse itself, and office space currently being rented out at Schlitz Park.

More from the Journal Sentinel: Milwaukee County envisions $75 million building (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jun04/235278.asp)

***

Newly elected Aldreman Robert Bauman, a long-time transit advocate who represents the Downtown area, wants to see Milwaukee get a light rail line.

Bauman would like to see a 5-mile, $120 million starter-light rail line linking tourist attractions throughout the Menomonee Valley, and Downtown, and the Lakefront. This is in contrast to the current "Milwaukee Connector" study, which ruled out light rail for a 14.5-mile, $300 million electric guided-bus system (patterned after such systems being used in France) that would link the Menomonee Valley, Downtown, the Near North Side, and the East Side.

Bauman says now is the right time get light rail rolling along his proposed route, since it could be built in conjunction with the upcoming Canal Street reconstruction/extention project which runs the entire length of the Menomonee Valley.

As always, issues being raised include financial feasability, political support, and public support.

See the Journal Sentinel for more details: Rail line linking valley, lakefront proposed (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jun04/235293.asp)

Below is a map showing Alderman Bauman's proposed light rail route, and the proposed Milwaukee Connector electirc guided-bus route.
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/jun04/connectG060804.gif

I would rather see a guided electric bus system because

a.) It's less expensive and it would run through much more of the city.(but good luck getting this past those damned NIMBYs in Shorwood, Glendale, Fox Point, River Hills, and maybe Brown Deer if it goes that far north. GOD I hate NIMBYs!!!!)

b.) Plus they look better than the light rail, which would probably attract more people to them.

The Mandel Group, developers of the 34-story University Club Tower plan to commence construction on September 27. The luxury condo high-rise has already pre-sold 36 of its 56 units--or percent of the building (many at $1.5-plus million).

See this article from the Business Journal for more on University Club Tower specifics, plus some stats on its nextdoor neighbor, Kilbourn Tower, currently under construction: University Club Tower set for September (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/06/14/story2.html)

***

If given the opportunity to build a casino Downtown, Potawatomi tribe officials have said the tribe would also continue to maintain operations at its present casino in the Menomonee Valley. All of this is assuming that the current tribal gaming compacts dispute at the State-level come out in the tribe's favor, and that the City, State, and Federal goverments would approve a Downtwon casino--all of which are major hurdles to overcome. A Downtown casino site, most notable one in the old Park East Freeway corridor, has been touted by a few local politicians, business groups, and developers of the PabstCity project (which is just up the street from the potential casino site).

Meanwhile, PabstCity developers are asking the City to establish a $75 million TIF disctirct (tax incremental financing) for thier redevelopment project at the former brewery. Under a TIF, the City borrows money to pay for public improvements (sewer lines, street reconstruction, streetscaping, environmental clean-up, etc.) in a district deemed as blighted. The borrowed money is then paid back through the increased tax revenue generated by new development within the district over a period of time.

Some alrerman are growing concerned over the amount of TIFs being established throughout the city. Mayor Barrett would like to look into the matter some more to see how much the City should be involved.

Check out the Business Journal article for more info (two-pager): Tribe would keep valley casino - If Potawatomi go downtown, would maintain existing site (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/06/14/story3.html?page=1)

***

The US Department of Housing and Urban Development has awarded a $19.5 million Hope IV grant to the Milwaukee Housing Authority. The money will be used to construct 110 new units to replace 81 existing units in the Highland Park public housing development in Milwaukee's Midtown neighborhood. A majority of new units will be replacements for existing public housing units (which are typically low-rise apartment buildings), but there are also provisions for some single-family houses to be made available as afforadble housing to lower-income families, and some market-rate single-family houses.

This is the fourth such HUD grant Milwaukee has received since 1993. Previous grants have been applied to other public housing developments across the city. They have been quite successful at revitalizing public housing--making "the projects" look and feel less like "the projects," integrating them into the surrounding neighborhoods, rather than being an isolated enclave in the middle of urban neighborhoods.

Have a look at this article from the Business Journal for details, plus a few short blurbs about a retail development in Walker's Point in a former paint factory, and an unidentified nationally-known company that is looking to establish a call center in the city (two-pager): Housing Authority receives $19.5 million grant for new housing (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/06/14/newscolumn2.html?page=1)

Where a freeway once stood, development will rise--60 acres, over $250 million worth of development expected.

After a delay lasting several months, the Common Council finally approved the Park East Redevelopment Plan--a series of documents which sets the framework (master plan, zoning regulations, development code, architectural guidelines, etc.) for how the former freeway corridor and surrounding blocks will be redeveloped.

While the plan itself was ready to be approved several months ago, the delay was due to debating whether a "community benefits agreement" should be included, which would have attached additonal regulations to developments that would occur in the area (requiring developers to hire minority workers, to provide jobs at union wages for non-union workers, mandates for affordable housing), which would likely drive up the cost of developments--or discourage development in the corridor all together, as some critics claimed. CBA supporters lost out, however, when the Common Council approved the Park East Redevelopment Plan with "no strings attached," which finally sets the ball rolling for redevelopment.

Now that the Redevelopment Plan has been approved, the City can now move ahead with subdividing each block into parcels that can be purchased by developers--which means we may start to see some proposals coming in for this land. Some additional site-preparation work still must be completed in order for the land to be put up for sale, but that should be ready later in the year.

Read this article from the Journal Sentinel for more: Council OKs Park East plan without conditions - 'Community benefits' development proposal rejected by aldermen (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jun04/237001.asp)

Also check out the Milwaukee Department of City Development's Park East webpage to get all the details about the redevelopment effort--project newsletters, freeway demolition before/after photos, public presnetation model photos, as well as the Redevelopment Plan documents themselves: Park East Redevelopment Project (http://www.mkedcd.org/parkeast)

***

Developers from Key Bridge Group are planning to construct a $25 million, 8-story,76-unit condo project very close to the Park East corridor. The project, called 601 Lofts (it's address will be 601 E. Ogden Avenue), will be built on an empty lot at the northern edge of Downtown. Developers have already started marketing the condos, and hope to start construction this November.

See the Journal Sentinel article for more: Condos planned for Park East area - Construction expected to start in November on $25 million project (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jun04/237226.asp)

http://www.601lofts.com/images/ogden_400px.gif

Big Bend Development has expressed interest in redeveloping an existing property within the Park East area. The developer is looking at a site now occupied by the Milwaukee Center for Independence--an agency that serves disabled people, which will be relocating to the West Side later this year. The Center is on E. Ogden Avenue between N. Broadway and N. Milwaukee Street. No specific plans have been made yet; several development scenarios for the site are being laid out for mixed-use development.

Check out the Journal Sentinel for additional info: Another developer looks at project for Park East area (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jun04/237521.asp)

I'm so glad that Park East corridor is finally up for grabs. I thought it would take longer than this. (or is time just flying by really fast)

BTW, where is everybody? Markitect (besides myself) is the only person who posted here within the last month.

I'm really excited about everything going on in Milwaukee. It's great news that the Common Council finally approved the development plan for the Park East, and without any ridiculous socialist mandates that would have just driven developers to the suburbs instead. It sounds like a lot of projects are starting to get moving in the Park East area now that that is done.

Now if we could just get the PabstCity project going.

I'm also pumped about Kilborn Tower and University Club Tower. Both will help improve what currently is a pitiful skyline.

The Park East corridor was expected to become a hot spot for development, and things are definitely heating up.

Many developers anticipated prime opportunities, so they purchased land/buildings in the blocks surrounding the Park East Freeway before it was even demolished (statring in June 2002) and before the Common Council had established development regulations/guidelines for the area (June 2004):

- The Mandel Group is moving forward with a previously-proposed $100 million plan to replace the former Pfister & Vogel tannery complex on N. Water Street with a mixed-use development that includes at least 500 condos and apartments. Demolition of the vacant tannery buildings and environmental remediation is expected to begin later this year. Mandel had already bought the site in 2001.

- Garot Hospitality Inc. is reviewing its previous plans to build a Country Inn & Suites hotel (a small one, so far, 85-to-100 rooms) on N. Old World 3rd Street, near W. Juneau Avenue. Garot had already bought the site in 2001.

- New Land Enterprises has plans for a condo conversion in an industrial building on N. ML King Drive. The plans are on hold right now, though, as New Land has it's plate full with a few development projects in progress on the East Side and elsewhere Downtown. New Land had already bought the building in 2002.

Those are in addition to the recent propsals in the last week:

- Key Bridge Group's condominium proposal, called 601 Lofts, at 601 E. Odgen Street.

- Big Bend Development's unspecified development on the site of the Milwaukee Center for Independence.

- An unspecified developer has agreed to buy a small warehouse building on N. Edison Street.

See this Journal Sentinel article for more information, which also talks a bit about how the demolition and infrastructure costs for the Park East have escalated: Pace picking up after council's vote - Unity urged in pushing Park East development (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jun04/238119.asp)

***

The Kenilworth Building, a large warehouse now owned by the University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee, will be redeveloped into student housing, classrooms, street-level retail, and condominiums. UWM currently uses the building mostly for storage as well as some off-campus studio/classroom space for its art school. The Kenilworth Building is located on E. Kenilworth Place, between N. Farwell and N. Prospect Avenues--about a mile south of UWM's campus.

Weas Development plans to cut the existing 5-story building in half, creating two buildings with an open garden space in between. The west building (fronting Farwell Avenue) will contain street-level retail, parking, and housing for graduate, married, and international students (including a two-story addition onto the roof). The east building (fronting Prospect Avenue) will contain street-level retail, parking, and classroom/gallery space for UWM's Peck School of the Arts. In addition, Weas plans to build 20 to 30 condominiums in a new building to be built along the bike trail at the southern edge of the site.

Weas and UWM are currently working with the City to secure all the necessary permits. The project is expected to be completed by Fall 2006.

See this Journal Sentinel article for more: State OKs overhaul of east side building (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jun04/237129.asp)

And also this article from the Business Journal (two-pager): http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/06/21/story6.html?page=1]Weas to split Kenilworth, add condo building - UWM structure will house students, retail, parking ( [url)

Below is a picture of the existing Kenilworth Building.

http://www.uwm.edu/map/images/photos/knw.jpg

This should be a great boost to the Milwaukee area economy, but hopefully it won't siphon marketshare away from PabstCity.

check it out:
http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jun04/238612.asp

Did you guys(who live in the Milwaukee area) fell that earthquake early this morning? It happened at about 1:10 A.M. this morning. My mom and my sister said that felt it, but me and my brother were in the basement of my house so we didn't feel a thing! There is an article about it on TheMilwaukeeChannel.com. (http://www.themilwaukeechannel.com/news/3467774/detail.html)

I kinda wanted to feel it since I've never felt an earthquake before.

I was in the basement, awake at that time, too...but didn't feel anything.

Ground was broken this past Monday for an Amtrak station on the western outskirts of General Mitchell Internation Airport. The $6.5 million project consists of a small station building (nothing extravagant, probably more of a large waiting shelter with than anything else), a 300-space parking lot, and track improvements that will allow passenger trains to avoid tying up freight trains on the line.

The airport station is being targeted primarily to three different groups: Chicago-area airline passengers (those who want to avoid Chicgao's airports), Milwaukee-area train passengers (those from the South Side/southern suburbs who won't have to go all the way Downtown to catch a train to Chicago), and Downtown Milwaukee commuters (those from the South Side/southern suburbs who work Downtown).

The project is expected to be completed by the end of this year.

A proposed Metra commuter rail extension would also serve the airport, using tracks through nearby Cudahy, east of the airport (which would be linked via shuttle bus).

See the Journal Sentinel article for additional details: Amtrak breaks ground for airport station - Stop will cater to business travelers (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jun04/239932.asp)

***

In other Milwaukee railroad news, this past Tuesday Amtrak made a request to Congress for $281 million that would be used to help fund part of a $351 million plan for a Chicago-Milwaukee-Madison high-speed rail line.

Wisconsin has been studying high-speed rail for several years, and has a plan ready to roll, but a lack of funding has prevented that train from leaving the station.

Assuming all the necessary funding is acquired and all the improvements are made:

- Milwaukee-Madison service would start with 6 daily round-trips at 110 mph, and would evenentually be increased to 10 daily round-trips. Additional stations would be built in Brookfield, Oconomoc, and Watertown--with some trains making all stops and others offering express-only service between Milwaukee and Madison. Currently there is no direct Milwaukee-Madison rail connection.

- The existing Chciago-Milwaukee service would increase from 7 daily round-trips to 10 daily round-trips at 70 mph, at first. It would eventually increase to 17 daily round-trips at 110 mph.

Check out this Journal Sentinel article for many more details (possible fares, ridership figures, etc.): Amtrak seeks funds for Madison route - Congress also asked to help upgrade Milwaukee-Chicago service; $281 million requested (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jun04/240213.asp)

***

The housing boom in the Walker's Point neighborhood continues, with another warehouse that will be converted into condos. The $3 million conversion calls for 21 units (studio and one-bedrooms) to be built on the upper three floors, and ground-floor commercial space. The redevelopment, located on S. 1st Street will be known as the Roxwell Lofts.

Have a look though the Journal Sentinel article for a recap of other Walker's Point projects: Walker's Point building undergoing conversion - 21 condominiums planned for warehouse (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jun04/240474.asp)

***

Groundbreaking occurred this Wednesday for the Milwaukee Public Market. The $10 million market will provide an indoor/outdoor venue for people to buy and sell locally-grown produce, meat, poultry, seafood, specialty food items, and flowers. The project has been funded through private donations, state loans, and a federal grant.

The Market (which has its roots as a studio project at UWM's School of Architecture and Urban Planning) is being built on a surface parking lot at the corner of N. Water Street and E. St. Paul Avenue in the Third Ward.

Some more info can be read in this article from the Business Journal: Milwaukee Public Market breaks ground; receives state aid (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/06/28/daily28.html)

Ground was broken this past Monday for an Amtrak station on the western outskirts of General Mitchell Internation Airport. The $6.5 million project consists of a small station building (nothing extravagant, probably more of a large waiting shelter with than anything else), a 300-space parking lot, and track improvements that will allow passenger trains to avoid tying up freight trains on the line.

The airport station is being targeted primarily to three different groups: Chicago-area airline passengers (those who want to avoid Chicgao's airports), Milwaukee-area train passengers (those from the South Side/southern suburbs who won't have to go all the way Downtown to catch a train to Chicago), and Downtown Milwaukee commuters (those from the South Side/southern suburbs who work Downtown).

The project is expected to be completed by the end of this year.

A proposed Metra commuter rail extension would also serve the airport, using tracks through nearby Cudahy, east of the airport (which would be linked via shuttle bus).

See the Journal Sentinel article for additional details: Amtrak breaks ground for airport station - Stop will cater to business travelers (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jun04/239932.asp)

***

In other Milwaukee railroad news, this past Tuesday Amtrak made a request to Congress for $281 million that would be used to help fund part of a $351 million plan for a Chicago-Milwaukee-Madison high-speed rail line.

Wisconsin has been studying high-speed rail for several years, and has a plan ready to roll, but a lack of funding has prevented that train from leaving the station.

Assuming all the necessary funding is acquired and all the improvements are made:

- Milwaukee-Madison service would start with 6 daily round-trips at 110 mph, and would evenentually be increased to 10 daily round-trips. Additional stations would be built in Brookfield, Oconomoc, and Watertown--with some trains making all stops and others offering express-only service between Milwaukee and Madison. Currently there is no direct Milwaukee-Madison rail connection.

- The existing Chciago-Milwaukee service would increase from 7 daily round-trips to 10 daily round-trips at 70 mph, at first. It would eventually increase to 17 daily round-trips at 110 mph.

Check out this Journal Sentinel article for many more details (possible fares, ridership figures, etc.): Amtrak seeks funds for Madison route - Congress also asked to help upgrade Milwaukee-Chicago service; $281 million requested (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jun04/240213.asp)

***

The housing boom in the Walker's Point neighborhood continues, with another warehouse that will be converted into condos. The $3 million conversion calls for 21 units (studio and one-bedrooms) to be built on the upper three floors, and ground-floor commercial space. The redevelopment, located on S. 1st Street will be known as the Roxwell Lofts.

Have a look though the Journal Sentinel article for a recap of other Walker's Point projects: Walker's Point building undergoing conversion - 21 condominiums planned for warehouse (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jun04/240474.asp)

***

Groundbreaking occurred this Wednesday for the Milwaukee Public Market. The $10 million market will provide an indoor/outdoor venue for people to buy and sell locally-grown produce, meat, poultry, seafood, specialty food items, and flowers. The project has been funded through private donations, state loans, and a federal grant.

The Market (which has its roots as a studio project at UWM's School of Architecture and Urban Planning) is being built on a surface parking lot at the corner of N. Water Street and E. St. Paul Avenue in the Third Ward.

Some more info can be read in this article from the Business Journal: Milwaukee Public Market breaks ground; receives state aid (http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2004/06/28/daily28.html)

I'm now officially banned from SSP! Woooo! I guess this is my new forum again after months of neglect.


I can't explain how cool and far-reaching I think the public market idea will be. It could a catalyst for more suburbanites to move down into the city. A major downtown market was something we were lacking.

I had an epiphany at summerfest yesterday when I was sitting on the grass seat of the marcus ampitheater (which offers some of the most incredible views of the city I've ever seen. Someone should take some photos down there). It kind of hit me as I was looking at the third ward and walkers point up to downtown and finally the east side: Milwaukee is BOOMING like nothing else. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a city of our size with the same amount of urban development that is taking place in Milwaukee. It's pretty f'ing cool.

On the way to summerfest, though, I drove past the increasingly bombed-out and boarded up hoods along I-43 between capitol drive and north. Has anyone noticed the increasing vacant lots and rubble in that area? It seems to be really in a deplorable state right now. :eek: Does anyone have any info on developments on the near north and north sides?

While I'm at it, does anyone know where how many murders there have been in Milwaukee or where I can find that?

oh, and check this out...


http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/Geography/images/CampusAerial.jpg

This Thursday, PabstCity developers officially announced anchor tennats that have signed letters of intent to lease space within the brewery redevelopment project:

Pittsburgh-based Jenco Cinemas intends to lease 72,000 square feet for a 16-screen movie theater. The theater would be built in the northwest corner of the site along W. Winnebago Street, prominently overlooking I-43. Milwaukee-based cinema operator Marcus Theaters had been approached earlier, but passed.

Hollywood-based HOB Entertainment intends to lease 32,000 square feet for a House of Blues. The club would be built on the northeast corner of W. Juneau Avenue and N. 9th Street.

Glendale, CA-based Sega GameWorks is in the process of submitting a letter of intent to lease space for a 42,000 square foot entertainment center and restaurant. It would be built at W. Winnebago and N. 10th Streets.

Chicago-based Restaurant Development Group intends to lease 5500 square feet for Bar Louie.

The letters of intent are precursors to signing leases and are used to help attract other tenants.

Still on tap, negotioations continue for a 12,000-14,000 square foot Hofbrauhaus microbrewery and restaurant. Developers also plan to begin marketing next year for a 150-room hotel.

Overall plans for PabstCity, which included new construction as well as rehabilitating historic buildings of the former Pabst Brewery complex, include:

450,000 square feet of entertainment venues, restaurants, and shops

448,000 square feet of housing, composed of 200 condos and 360 loft apartments

100,000 square feet of office space

Here's a Journal Sentinel article for more info: Cinema owner makes PabstCity commitment - Anchor tenants boost plans for old brewery site (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jul04/240783.asp)


Some hurdles must still be cleared in order for PabstCity to move ahead.

First is the little-guy vs. big-guys leagal battle in the developer/investor partnership. James Haertel recently filed a lawsuit against Wispark and the Ferchill Group stating they have essentially squeezed him out of any plans for the brewery--that they have not kept their promise to give him ownership of the former Pabst office building, gift shop and Blue Ribbon Hall. Haertel is responsible for spearheading the Pabst redevelopment in the first place.

Next is the matter of getting the City to establish a $75 million tax incremental financing district for the project. This financing would be used to make public improvements (streets, sidewalks, water/sewer lines, plazaz, and 3 parking garages). Mayor Barrett and some Common Council memebers recently stressed the need to step back and examine just how many TIF districts the city can handle, and if such financing tools are being used for the right and legal purposes. A formal TIF propsal from the developers will be presented to the Common Council later this year.

Finally, another funding issue involves reciving historic tax credits to be used to rehabilitate the older buildings within the brewery complex. Some of the developers plans for significantly altering a historic building may actually make it ineligible for historic tax credits they would like to use to help pay to rehabilitate the building.


A rendering depicting a public plaza and entertainment venues along N. 10th Street, near Winnebago Street. The generic "Gametime" sign on the building is where the proposed Sega GameWorks would be located.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/jul04/pabst070104.jpg


Another rendering, with a viewpoint looking down W. Juneau Avenue from the corner of N. 9th Street.

http://www.terre-mark.com/images/540_streetviewatnight-sm.jpg


A rendering of the elevations along N. 9th Street.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/feb03/pabstbbig022603.jpg

^so they're not cutting back (as I thought they were)?

And...summerfest's numbers are down. Which is not a good thing....yeah.
Just read---

Big Gig battles low attendance numbers
Some blame economy; some blame weather; some cite music choices
By TOM HELD
theld@journalsentinel.com
Posted: July 1, 2004
Doused by two of its lowest turnouts in recent history, Summerfest needs to draw an average of just over 110,000 patrons each of its final four days to meet its 2004 attendance goal of 950,000.





July 1 Attendance

76,679
As of close Thursday
114,496
close this date last year
581,573
to date this year
674,908
this time last year


History, if not the weather forecast, suggests it's possible, if Summerfest fans party like it's 1999.

While attendance through Wednesday night trailed last year's Big Gig by roughly 10%, the crowd tally was closer to the figures for '99, the last year Summerfest ended on the Fourth of July. Over its last four days in that year, the fest drew 412,732 people, and had crowds that topped 100,000 on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

By matching those holiday numbers, the festival would at least top last year's 905,000 and perhaps quiet some of the critics who have blamed lagging attendance on a poor lineup, high prices and perceived ageism.

"I think everybody's jumping on this, 'What's going on with Summerfest, what's going on with Summerfest?' " said Casper Balistreri, who has run the Venice Club food stand for 30 years. "Maybe nothing's going on with Summerfest.

"We had some boom years over the past couple years, and now the bottom fell out. It's just a little blip in the whole thing."

Balistreri sold his deep-fried eggplant when roughly 657,000 people scattered around the grounds over the 11-day festival, and when more than a million packed themselves through the gates in 2001 and 2002.

He spreads the blame for an 11% dip in attendance last year and this year's decline on a still-tight economy, the weather and lifestyle changes.

A few of his potential customers had more pointed explanations, directed at the pricing and policies of the 37-year-old festival.

Loni Wiesendanger, 40, of Oak Creek and Nancy Parmentier, 37, of Kenosha said Thursday that they believe Summerfest has cut back on the discounts and free admission programs that made the festival more affordable for families. Ticket prices of $12 a day are keeping others from visiting the festival, they said.

"I miss the pins," said Parmentier, adding that the Big Gig cards are not the same.

Patrice Harris, Summerfest marketing and public relations director, challenged the perception that the admission deals had been reduced this year. There are 16 promotions providing free or reduced admission this year, compared with 11 last year, including a value card that replaced the pin with the same admission times, she said.

Gina Sherfinski, 31, of Sussex said a lineup she described as "really crappy" would limit her visits from the usual two or three days to one this year.

Summerfest Chief Executive Officer Donald Smiley said people are free to scrutinize the entertainment mix, but that the weather should not be discounted as a factor in the 2004 attendance.

When Smiley helped cut the ribbon on opening day, it was raining and 49 degrees. The attendance of 65,853 was the lowest for an opening day in at least the last 10 years.

And Sunday's shivering, rain-drenched crowd of 48,608 was the smallest since a Monday, June 30, 1997.

"Am I shook up over what is considered to be down attendance? No, I'm not," Smiley said. "Because the festival in my estimation is still very healthy, and there are a lot of people down here enjoying themselves."

^so they're not cutting back (as I thought they were)?

They are cutting back...those are the cut black plans. There was originally more emphasis on entertainment stuff and less emphasis on housing.

Didn't they get rid of the rides at summerfest. If they did, I think that's a big reason why attendence is down.


About Pabst City, has it been approved yet? It would be awesome to have a House of Blues in Milwaukee. And about Sega Gameworks, is that Sega as in "Sonic The Hedgehog" Sega?

No, PabstCity has not been approved yet. They're still seeking tenants and financing.

And yeah, Sega Gameworks, as in Sega the maker of video games. It's a Sega-themed restaurant/giant arcade.

Plans to redevelop the old Coast Guard station along the lakefront advanced earlier this week when officials from Milwaukee County Parks and two Native American groups reached a lease agreement for the building. HONOR (Honor Our Neighbors, Origins and Rights--a Native American advocacy group) and Loonsfoot, Inc. have plans to renovate the abandoned Coast Guard station and convert it into a Native American cultural center. The lease agreement must be approved by the full Coutny Board later this month in order for the proposal to procede.

The former Coast Guard station, built in 1916, features distintive Prairie-style styling--and only one of two such structures remianing in existance (the other is in the Philippines). The Coast Guard eventually moved to new facilities in Bay View and the building eventually became home to an Indian Community School for a while. The school moved out and the Federal government turned the building over to Milwaukee County in 1987 under the condition that it be preserved. Subsequent plans never gained enough momentum, the vacant building continued to deteriorate, and the County came close to demolishing the building a few years ago. A warning from the Wisocnsin Historical Society that the Federal government might try to take back the site ultimately motivated County officials to invite proposals for reusing the building.

That's when HONOR stepped up a couple year sago with a proposal to rehabilitate the old building into the Wisconsin Indian History and Cultural Center. However, the plan faced opposition from park preservationists and a couple County Supervisors who feared such a plan would eat up lakefront greenspace with parking lots and other intrusive site elements. HONOR has worked to make sure the project will be sensitive to parkland. And now a tentative lease arrangement has been reached.


Check out the Journal Sentinel for other details: Indian heritage center clears hurdle - Parks officials reach lease deal for former Coast Guard building (http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/jul04/242408.asp)

A view of the former Coast Guard station fronting Lincoln Memorial Drive.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/apr03/coastguard040803.jpg


A view of the station from the marina. It seems that "pit" was once a channel that linked the lake and marina to the Coast Guard boathouse, behind those garage door-ish panels.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/feb03/goulabig022303.jpg


An older rendering showing a marina-side view of the proposed Wisconsin Indian History and Cultural Center.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/feb03/goulbig022303.jpg

I hate living in Mequon


On top of that, I live in such a hardcore conservative neighborhood errr...subdivision (sorry markitect). Not like freaky-bible belt conservative, but suburban, plastic surgery, isolationist conservative.

So I put up a huge banner in plain sight between two trees in my driveway that says "John Kerry For Prez" in painted letters. It hangs about 8 feet over my driveway and the span between the two trees is like 30 ft, so it's a pretty good project.

Anyhow, my sister took it down. She thinks it looks "trashy." It does look trashy, but thats some of the appeal. It's supposed to look homemade and sloppy. Plus, it's fun to shock some of my neighbors.

So should I make a new one and hope she doesn't take it down? Or is it too in your face?

^^^Make a new one and hope she doesn't take it down. And make it bigger! (if possible)

^^^Make a new one and hope she doesn't take it down. And make it bigger! (if possible)


I made a new one but I actually stuck it out of my bedroom window. It's pretty visible from the street, plus no neighbors could ever take it down (which happened to the only other democratic family in my subdivision during 2000)

I think Milwaukee's cool, and has that same Upper Midwest/Great Lakes feel as Chicago, Detroit, and Minneapolis. I'd like it grow in population to become of the the Midwest Four.

Walker's Point may very well be the hottest neighborhood for development in Milwaukee right now as another proposal was announced last week. Vetter Denk Properties has plans to construct a $3.9 million, 6-story mixed-use building with street level retail space, 16 loft-style condo units, a petnhouse office, and an underground parking garage. The site is currently a pair of vacant lots owned by the City, at the northwest corner of S. 1st Street and E. Pittsburgh Avenue. Pending on a Plan Commission approval to purchase the lots, developers hope to start marketing the units to prospective buyers next month in order for the project to procede.

Read more about it in the Journal Sentinel Developer proposes housing, retail project - Plan is among many for Walker's Point area (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jul04/242549.asp)

***

A few weeks ago, Big Bend Development proposed a mixed-use condo/retail project on a site currently occupied by the Milwaukee Center for Indepence. The non-profit agency is moving to a new facility elsewhere in the city later this year. Developers were planning to demolish the building to make room for their proposed development: an 8-story building along N. Milwaukee Street with street-level retail, 56 condo units, and underground parking; plus 20 brownstone-style condo units along E. Odgen Avenue.

The Historic Preservation Commission has granted temporary historic status to the oldest (1896) portion of the building. A report from the Department of City Development cites that the building is a fine example of German renaisance architecture; and that it was designed by Otto Strak, a well-known, talented architecture of 19th century Milwaukee. Temporary historic status lasts for 180 days, and is used to as an emergency action to prevent immenent demolition of historic buildings. Petitions for temporary and permanent status can be denied by the Common Council.

Since the temporary status (which in theory, could become permanent) applies only to the oldest portion of the building, it would prevent developers from building their proposed brownstone units. Big Bend Development will go back and study if building only the 8-story building and converting the historic building would make any financial sense. The preserved building would be difficult to work with, since it is built into the hillside (lacking windows on some walls and adequate ventilation), which may make it unsuitable for residential or retail space.

Alderman D'Amato (who represents the neighborhood and chairs the Zonging, Neighborhoods, and Development Committee) does not believe the building needs any historic status--as it really isn't that important enough, especially considering all of the other, more significant examples of German renaissance architecture and Otto Strak's work, some of which already has historic status (namely anything built by Pabst). Mayor Barrett was surprised by the Preservation Commission's action, especially since the site sits within the boundaries of the Park East corridor redevelopment. He would rather not have the developer's proposal stalled or cancelled over such an issue.

See the Journal Sentinel article for more: Move made to protect building - Park East work may be delayed after site gets interim historic status (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jul04/243414.asp)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/jul04/histor071304.jpg

^ Here is the section of the building in question. It's not really by any means all that historically significant, considering there are more imporant 19th century buildings of this style, and designed by Strak, throughout the city.

Here' some random Milwaukee pics to bump up the thread

http://img18.exs.cx/img18/9420/csf071704-2.jpg



http://img18.exs.cx/img18/5816/csf071704-3.jpg



http://img18.exs.cx/img18/6720/csf071704-5.jpg



http://img18.exs.cx/img18/3107/csf071704-4.jpg (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=119365)

A few days ago the Journal Sentinel ran an excellent article about the transformation of the Walker's Point/Fifth Ward neighborhood. It covered everything from all the little shops/restaurants/bars that have opened up in the neighborhood, to the many residential projects that have been recently completed, to the upcoming proposals on the horizon. The article also touches on the concerns residents, developers/architects, politicians, and business owners have over the future of the neighborhood.

Take some time to read it: Urban makeover - With condos, restaurants going up in Fifth Ward, tension builds over character of redevelopment (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jul04/244478.asp)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/jul04/fifth18Gbig.gif

^ This map from the article shows and describes the recent development action in the Fifth Ward. Momentum is building!

***

And speaking of Fifth Ward development, a Common Council committee (Zoning, Neighborhoods, and Development) gave preliminary approval for First Place on the River--a project recently proposed by the Key Bridge Group. The site is located at a prominent location at the confluence of the Milwaukee and Menomonee Rivers, near 1st and W. Seeboth Streets. Developers plan to rehabilitate the former 4-story Terminal Storage warehouse, plus an 8-story addition, to create 180 condo units.

Key Bridge is working with the Department of City Development to refine the current design, but as always, there are some who have concerns over the propsal's scale and appearance (which was also addressed in the previous article). The proposal will go before the full Common Council for approval in the near future.

Also, the ZND Committee recommended permanent historic status to a small warehouse building next door, which Weas Development had planned to demolish to make way for an 8-story condo/retail project called 100 Seeboth. While this action effectively kills the proposal, it must also be approved by the full Common Council at a later date.

Check out the Journal Sentinel article for detailed information: Fifth Ward plan moves forward - City panel backs one condo development, opposes another in historic building (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jul04/245062.asp[/URL)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/jul04/fifth072004.jpg

^ A rendering of First Place on the River, at the point where the Milwaukee River (foreground) and Menomonee River (right background) meet. The project involves rehabbing the lower 4-stories of an existing warehouse, plus several additions of varying heights (plus boat docks and a new riverwalk).

***

On the other end of Downtown, the ZND Committee recommended the Common Council should deny temporary historic status to a portion of the Milwaukee Center for Independence. This would allow developers to move forward with plans to demolish the building to make way for their proposed mixed-use project consiting of an 8-sotry building and 20 brownstone-style lofts. This matter is also on the agenda for a full Common Council meeting later this month.

Review the for and against positions in this Journal Sentinel article: Condo plan gets boost from city - Committee backs demolishing building (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jul04/245037.asp)

Downtown's housing boom continues, with two more conversion projects!

Work is already in progress inside the Wisconsin Tower (aka 606 Building), where the 22-story former office building (a great art deco piece) will be converted into a mixed-use building. Renovation started earlier this week to create 70 condo units, two floors of retail space, and underground parking within the building.

This Journal Sentinel article covers this building, and reviews other renovation work going on along W. Wisconsin Avenue: Wisconsin Ave. office tower is going condo (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jul04/245427.asp)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/jul04/towerbig0722.jpg

^ The Wisconsin Tower, 606 West Wisconsin Avenue.

***

The Gallun family, which owns the former A.F. Gallun & Sons Company tannery, has proposed converting the complex into condominiums. The tannery buildings are located on the Lower East Side, between N. Water Street and the Milwaukee River, just north of E. Brady Street. The Galluns are planning to create 250 to 300 condo units, to be developed in phases as the housing market demands. Also, 40,000 square feet of retail space on the lower level is planned.

This area has been a hot spot for residential projects in recent years, both new construction and conversions. The Galluns already redeveloped a portion of the tannery a few years ago into apartments--which they now plan to upgrade into condominums (in addition to this most recent condo proposal).

Alderman D'Amato would like plans to include public access to the river, via a street or lane (similar to streets along canals in Europe), which would link up with the city's ever-growing RiverWalk.

Read more about it in the Journal Sentinel: Tannery to become housing - Condo project targets big downtown demand (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jul04/245445.asp)

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/bym/img/jul04/gallunbig0722.jpg

^ A view of the former Gallun tannery, looking south down N. Water Street.

Downtown's housing boom continues, with two more conversion projects!

Work is already in progress inside the Wisconsin Tower (aka 606 Building), where the 22-story former office building (a great art deco piece) will be converted into a mixed-use building. Renovation started earlier this week to create 70 condo units, two floors of retail space, and underground parking within the building.

This Journal Sentinel article covers this building, and reviews other renovation work going on along W. Wisconsin Avenue: Wisconsin Ave. office tower is going condo (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jul04/245427.asp)



^ The Wisconsin Tower, 606 West Wisconsin Avenue.

***

The Gallun family, which owns the former A.F. Gallun & Sons Company tannery, has proposed converting the complex into condominiums. The tannery buildings are located on the Lower East Side, between N. Water Street and the Milwaukee River, just north of E. Brady Street. The Galluns are planning to create 250 to 300 condo units, to be developed in phases as the housing market demands. Also, 40,000 square feet of retail space on the lower level is planned.

This area has been a hot spot for residential projects in recent years, both new construction and conversions. The Galluns already redeveloped a portion of the tannery a few years ago into apartments--which they now plan to upgrade into condominums (in addition to this most recent condo proposal).

Alderman D'Amato would like plans to include public access to the river, via a street or lane (similar to streets along canals in Europe), which would link up with the city's ever-growing RiverWalk.

Read more about it in the Journal Sentinel: Tannery to become housing - Condo project targets big downtown demand (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/jul04/245445.asp)



^ A view of the former Gallun tannery, looking south down N. Water Street.

It's incredible to consider that even with a myriad of projects like this Milwaukee can still be losing population, at a pretty steady rate. I don't understand. Who is moving out of the city? Is it blacks on the north side? Whites from all over? I know hispanics have actually pretty much repopulated the south side, so why are we still losing so many people?

It's incredible to consider that even with a myriad of projects like this Milwaukee can still be losing population, at a pretty steady rate. I don't understand. Who is moving out of the city? Is it blacks on the north side? Whites from all over? I know hispanics have actually pretty much repopulated the south side, so why are we still losing so many people?

1. Fiddle, when you're quoting a previous post with images in it, PLEASE DELETE THE PHOTOS FROM THE QUOTE!! There's no need to have the exact same images show up multiple times--it REALLY slows down the time it takes for a page to load, especially for those of us who don't have superfast connections.

Thank you.

2. I would guess those moving out are likely whites from all over first, then blacks. But that's just a guess.

People move out for all kinds of reasons--the primary ones being jobs and education. The economy is changing from manufacturing-based to service-based economy--which means Milwaukee has many blue-collar workers that aren't suitable for those white-collar jobs. The public school system in the city isn't the greatest, and many people don't want their kids going to a poor school system. So they move out. Bring in the right balance of jobs and improve the school system and people won't be as likely to move out so much.

Also, recent estimates/projections by the Wisconsin Department of Administration from earlier this year anticipate a slow reversal of Milwaukee's population loss in the next few decades. They expect it to go a little bit by 2010; and to be around 620-630,000 by 2030. I would tend to find thos efigures more reliable than anything from the Census Bureau, as the DOA seems to have a better pulse of what's going on in Milwaukee and Wisconsin.

Also, recent estimates/projections by the Wisconsin Department of Administration from earlier this year anticipate a slow reversal of Milwaukee's population loss in the next few decades. They expect it to go a little bit by 2010; and to be around 620-630,000 by 2030. I would tend to find thos efigures more reliable than anything from the Census Bureau, as the DOA seems to have a better pulse of what's going on in Milwaukee and Wisconsin.


I read that too and I find that kinda hard to believe. If it's just hispanics that are the people moving in that will increase the population, as I remember the article stated, then why hasn't the population risen already? Unless they are predicting some massive emmigration out of Mexico in the next 25 years, i just can't see how that would be possible. But of course, they know better than me, I'm sure.

I read that too and I find that kinda hard to believe. If it's just hispanics that are the people moving in that will increase the population, as I remember the article stated, then why hasn't the population risen already? Unless they are predicting some massive emmigration out of Mexico in the next 25 years, i just can't see how that would be possible. But of course, they know better than me, I'm sure.

No, the projected population increase isn't just going to be from Hispanics--it'll be from people of all walks of life. People returning to the city, as well as immigrants, whites, blacks, yellows, reds, purples, green-with-orange polkadots...eveybody.

Hello guys!

Fiddler I loved that ariel you posted of the UWM and the downtown. That has to be one of the best ariels of Milwaukee I have ever seen. I'm wondering if anyone here has seen these old ones before, circa 1950?

http://www.boomspeed.com/paule17/12.jpg

http://www.boomspeed.com/paule17/13b.jpg

This picture looks to be taken from on top of the Telephone Company Building looking towards 3rd ward
http://www.boomspeed.com/paule17/26.jpg

Hello guys!

Fiddler I loved that ariel you posted of the UWM and the downtown. That has to be one of the best ariels of Milwaukee I have ever seen. I'm wondering if anyone here has seen these old ones before, circa 1950?




Welcome to the thread! And those are very sweet aerials that I have never seen before. Look how barren the lakefront is in the third picture! And I'm having trouble determining what the building under construction is in the first pic (on the right hand side)

pssst...no need to welcome me to the thread fiddle...I'm your old friend Paule stopping in to pay a visit and under new management.

I don't see any construction in the picture. Are you sure that isn't just smoke from the power plant? Milwaukee didn't have anything major built around this time.

Thanks for correcting me on the proper way on how to spell aeriel. I knew I had it wrong but was too lazy to look it up :)

Man Markitect! you deserve a standing ovation for how you have kept this thread going with all the news up dates and pretty much all by your lonesome. Good job! And also a good job by the city of Milwaukee for keeping this thing rolling along. Milwaukee's downtown and surrounding neighborhoods sure are looking up!

Welcome back, Paule. Thanks for the great imagery. Where did you find them? I've seen some similar pictures, of the first and second ones.

Look how barren the lakefront is in the third picture!

Barren because that section of the lakefront was a small landing strip for airplanes, Matiland Field, at the time. It is now the Maier Festival Grounds.

And I'm having trouble determining what the building under construction is in the first pic (on the right hand side)

Paule's right, there's nothing under construction there. The buildings are just "blurry" because it's hidden behind smoke from the old power plant.

pssst...no need to welcome me to the thread fiddle...I'm your old friend Paule stopping in to pay a visit and under new management.

I don't see any construction in the picture. Are you sure that isn't just smoke from the power plant? Milwaukee didn't have anything major built around this time.

Thanks for correcting me on the proper way on how to spell aeriel. I knew I had it wrong but was too lazy to look it up :)

Man Markitect! you deserve a standing ovation for how you have kept this thread going with all the news up dates and pretty much all by your lonesome. Good job! And also a good job by the city of Milwaukee for keeping this thing rolling along. Milwaukee's downtown and surrounding neighborhoods sure are looking up!


Paule, where the hell have you been?? It's nice to have one of the old originals back! A lot of people have left but CG5, mark, you and I have been doing this for like three years. Try not leaving for so long next time, mmmkay? :)

Welcome back, Paule. Thanks for the great imagery. Where did you find them? I've seen some similar pictures, of the first and second ones.
Hi Mark! I'm glad you asked because it really was a great website where I found these pics. Please do check it out!
http://www.milwaukeemakesplace.org/





Barren because that section of the lakefront was a small landing strip for airplanes, Matiland Field, at the time. It is now the Maier Festival Grounds.
Yes, I remember posting a pic dated circa 1965 once that showed this landing strip. Boy has Milwaukee come a long way or what?

Paule, where the hell have you been?? It's nice to have one of the old originals back! A lot of people have left but CG5, mark, you and I have been doing this for like three years. Try not leaving for so long next time, mmmkay? :)
I'm evolving fiddle. City planning and architecture just isn't on the top of my list anymore, sorry. I do enjoy comeing back and saying hi every once in a while and see how things are shapeing up. My name change is due to the fact that I couldn't post for some reason under my original Paule and no I wasn't banned. I don't know the reason but whatever...

Ah...milwaukeemakesplace.org...that's why those photos looked familiar. I saw them there when that site debuted.

I think by 1965, Matiland Field was being used as some sort of military installation. II've seen other photos from that era when there were missles set up along the shoreline and everything, considering it was the height of the Cold War!

Speaking of how far we've come, I've seen some pretty horrific aerials of the lakefront in the late 70's...PAAAAAAARKING from here to kingdom come. When I get back to school (and my job) I'll see if I can scan some images in and post them. They're in books about the lakefront redesign competition Milwaukee held around that time.

And speaking of aerials, the one Fiddler posted is actually the image on a folder that new students get at UWM. It's a pretty cool folder, that's for sure. ;)

Welcome back Paule! Great historic shots. And btw, since I haven't posted this link in a loooong time, there are some awesome oldschool MKE pics at this site:

http://www.widenonline.com/oldmilw/

Welcome back Paule! Great historic shots. And btw,
since I haven't posted this link in a loooong time, there are some awesome oldschool MKE pics at this site:

http://www.widenonline.com/oldmilw/

LOL, yep that's old school alright! Thanks for the welcome.

I was over at SSP and saw that little Milwaukee meet thread you had with Goonsta.
That picture of you standing on the ledge of a building looking like your hugging the town is a classic!
Looks like your still in love with your home town, that's great, I like that!

Here's a reverse aeriel shot of the UWM folder.
http://www.uwm.edu/Library/digilib/Milwaukee/images/mayer/me000282xl.jpg

First off, I'm sorry these pics are so huge but the site only allows hyper link with this size.

Do you guys remember talking about the Pabst Building and how they stripped the building
of it's beautiful detail. We all wanted to see pics of that period and Markitect found some photos but they
really weren't that good. Well I found the mother load! Here's just a few. I will keep these pics up for a period
and then delet them and give you all the link to the site. You have to understand...I just want to have
alittle fun posting pics again!

The Pabst building and all her glory 1895 !!!
http://www.uwm.edu/Library/digilib/Milwaukee/images/prints/mi000100xl.jpg

I had to post this one. If you notice, the brand new City Hall doesn't have the clock installed yet...1895
http://www.uwm.edu/Library/digilib/Milwaukee/images/prints/mi000114xl.jpg


1948 after modeling and striped clean
http://www.uwm.edu/Library/digilib/Milwaukee/images/mayer/me000355xl.jpg

A painted white Pabst Building 1974
http://www.uwm.edu/Library/digilib/Milwaukee/images/mayer/me000349xl.jpg

View from the north 1974
http://www.uwm.edu/Library/digilib/Milwaukee/images/mayer/me000374xl.jpg

OK, don't get me wrong, but in all fairness, the pabst building is very nice, but it's not that nice. Not nice enough to not justify Milwaukee's second tallest to be built. Or maybe these shots don't do it justice.

OK, don't get me wrong, but in all fairness, the pabst building is very nice, but it's not that nice. Not nice enough to not justify Milwaukee's second tallest to be built. Or maybe these shots don't do it justice.

Sorry Fiddler but the old Pabst was great. Either way I find it interesting how they totally gutted it and made it a main stay of the skyline for so long. I agree that after the remodeling and painting and all it wasn't anything like what it used to be and maybe for that reason it wasn't such a big deal when they knocked it down.

Sorry Fiddler but the old Pabst was great. Either way I find it interesting how they totally gutted it and made it a main stay of the skyline for so long. I agree that after the remodeling and painting and all it wasn't anything like what it used to be and maybe for that reason it wasn't such a big deal when they knocked it down.

Yeah, I agree, If it was razed during it's "heydey" so to speak, then I would have protested. But as it stood in the 1980's...well, it's not that attractive of a building. Grey, blockish. Still far from an eyesore, of course, but not one of Milwaukee's most fantastic architectual buildings at that time, IMHO.

And 100 East Wisconsin isn't an eyesore? Height, schmieght. We can do better than that.

And 100 East Wisconsin isn't an eyesore? Height, schmieght. We can do better than that.

Can we really? Look at our four tallest. Not much on the eyes. :sleepy:

Speaking of Pabst, I'm surprised no one has mentioned the other pabst-realted (in name, of course) development in Milwaukee. It's probably the biggest suburban development to take place in Milwaukee in a long time, if not ever. Retail, 400 residential units and more...I may not agree with this type of development, but at least Milwaukee can compete in some way with more "expanding" (aka sprawling) metros At least we're not losing people, right? And when these richies retire, they'll probably inhabit condos downtown. So in some ways, this is an URBAN development. :laugh:

http://www.pabstfarms.com/flash/

And 100 East Wisconsin isn't an eyesore? Height, schmieght. We can do better than that.
No, I wouldn't call 100 East an eye sore. I think the building does rather well with it's surroundings. As for mimicking the Pabst and trying to play with the same design I would agree with you that it failed in more than one area but as Fiddler brought up, the building that was destroied wasn't the same building that they originally built. The building they destroied I would agree was an eye sore but it wasn't anything like the original. The Pabst went from glorious beauty to ugly in one year!

The height or size of the 100 East Wisconsin shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not you "like" the building or not but I will agree with Fiddler that height needed to be in the plan for the new building and for the most part that's what we got. The designers negected to take into acount Milwaukee's pride and joy of adding beauty and detail to prominant buildings. Either way on this issue the building is based on an original Milwaukee design based on the original design of the Pabst Building. In some ways they failed but in some ways they succeeded.

Can we really? Look at our four tallest. Not much on the eyes. :sleepy:

Sorry Fiddler, although I don't believe the 100 East is an eye sore like CG5 may believe, I do believe Milwaukee could've done a little better than that. I am after all, from what my wife tells me, the best arm chair quarterback! :)

USBank is, imo, a very cool building. If you're into that whole "boxy" thing. Which I am, depending on my mood. And 100EW (haha...it's initials spell ew. I never noticed that.) can be nice, depending on the light and the angle. But most of the time it just strikes me as the skyline's redheaded bastard child -- screeching for undeserved attention. It has nothing to do with whether or not Pabst was ugly or pretty or whatever when it was torn down.

Holy crap! I've just realized that this thread has been stickeyed. That's cool.

USBank is, imo, a very cool building. If you're into that whole "boxy" thing. Which I am, depending on my mood. And 100EW (haha...it's initials spell ew. I never noticed that.) can be nice, depending on the light and the angle. But most of the time it just strikes me as the skyline's redheaded bastard child -- screeching for undeserved attention. It has nothing to do with whether or not Pabst was ugly or pretty or whatever when it was torn down.
I hear yah. To each his own I guess. I also like the US Bank Building so we both agree on that. :)

Oh! I forgot I was going to give you guys the link to the site.

This is from the collections at the UWM libraries. CG5 I would think you'd have seen this site before?

http://www.uwm.edu/Library/digilib/Milwaukee/records/picture.html
Use the advance search...there are more photos and history there.
This site will also link you to the UWM main online library.

USBank is, imo, a very cool building. If you're into that whole "boxy" thing. Which I am, depending on my mood. And 100EW (haha...it's initials spell ew. I never noticed that.) can be nice, depending on the light and the angle. But most of the time it just strikes me as the skyline's redheaded bastard child -- screeching for undeserved attention. It has nothing to do with whether or not Pabst was ugly or pretty or whatever when it was torn down.


dude, as a person who believes more in the city/urban design aspects of an area than the height or amount of skyscrapers, you should know and resent the fact that the US bank building is completely out of place in it's setting.

But I will concede (once again) that 100 EW is not a very big improvement, even if it our second tallest. There is something strange about it's design but I can't quite put my finger on it. It must be the brick or the windows or something. It looks like a really really tall suburban house.

How is the US Bank building "completely out of place in its setting"?

How is the US Bank building "completely out of place in its setting"?

May I answer this please? I may like the design of the US Bank but I do agree with Fiddler that it is "completely out of place in it's setting", especially when it first was built.

Viewed from a distance the Milwaukee skyline is centered on the Milwaukee river, not the lake shore of Lake Michigan. I don't want to get in any debates about skyline beauty here but IMHO skylines that feature the tallest building away from,and out of, the center of the CBD does make the cities tallest building not only look out of place but ackward and to some extent, down right ugly.

When standing in the presence of this building it does look totally out of place because there is no building next to it or in close proximity that remotely equals the size of it. The efect of this is somewhat overpowering and makes the surrounding neighborhood look not only empty but uninviting. This effect I would say was very profound when the building was first erected but now it doesn't seem as stark a contrast but the feeling is still there. With the Kilborne and the University Club the feeling will lesson even a little bit more but those two buildings open up a whole new can of worms...

The Wisconsin Gas Building has got to be Milwaukee's best older highrises it's got. I know many who love this building with the set backs and the masonry on top, I know it's one of my favs. The size of the US Bank IMHO takes away from this building...it makes it seem insigificant and small from any distance untill you get up close to the Wisconsin Gas then you ask yourself...what is this building doing next to this monstrosity painted white? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Well those are are just a few of my reasons why I think the US Bank is out of place. I'm looking forward to hearing Fiddlers reasons. I have the feeling he will say the same things but hopeing he will cover something I have not.

May I answer this please? I may like the design of the US Bank but I do agree with Fiddler that it is "completely out of place in it's setting", especially when it first was built.

Viewed from a distance the Milwaukee skyline is centered on the Milwaukee river, not the lake shore of Lake Michigan. I don't want to get in any debates about skyline beauty here but IMHO skylines that feature the tallest building away from,and out of, the center of the CBD does make the cities tallest building not only look out of place but ackward and to some extent, down right ugly.

When standing in the presence of this building it does look totally out of place because there is no building next to it or in close proximity that remotely equals the size of it. The efect of this is somewhat overpowering and makes the surrounding neighborhood look not only empty but uninviting. This effect I would say was very profound when the building was first erected but now it doesn't seem as stark a contrast but the feeling is still there. With the Kilborne and the University Club the feeling will lesson even a little bit more but those two buildings open up a whole new can of worms...

The Wisconsin Gas Building has got to be Milwaukee's best older highrises it's got. I know many who love this building with the set backs and the masonry on top, I know it's one of my favs. The size of the US Bank IMHO takes away from this building...it makes it seem insigificant and small from any distance untill you get up close to the Wisconsin Gas then you ask yourself...what is this building doing next to this monstrosity painted white? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Well those are are just a few of my reasons why I think the US Bank is out of place. I'm looking forward to hearing Fiddlers reasons. I have the feeling he will say the same things but hopeing he will cover something I have not.

Nope you pretty much nailed it and then some. Especially the bold words. I also agree that once KT and UCT are built, the overall surrounding area won't seem so undeveloped and empty. I mean, come on, markitect. You think a 600 foot, strinkingly white tower surrounded by by mostly 10 story or less buildings isn't out of place? Pul-leazze. You can only pull that shit off in Hong Kong.

I probably wouldn't have a problem with the us bank tower had it been built on or near the Milwaukee River further down Wisconsin. Hell, that probably would have made it Milwaukee's pride and joy of skyscrapery, sitting there, complementing it's fellow 20-40 story buildings, But instead, it was dropped at the far end of Wisconsin ave, in the middle of nowhere and it sticks out like a giant, white, cross-braced 601 foot tall thumb.

I figured it'd be primarily a height and skyline placement issue.

The US Bank building was built where it was because it maximizes the opportunity to charge higher rents due to it's lakefront location. The ability to charge higher rents allowed developers to build a taller (and thus more expensive) building. It seems proximity to water and views attracts this phenomenon--that's why many (not all, but many) of our skyscrapers--the important ones--are right along the lakefront or the river...proximity to water adds value (likewise, in some cases, with parks; i.e. Central Park in Manhattan is an excellent example, which is several blocks away from any water).

Also during the era in which it was built, the growing financial district was moving eastward along Wisconsin Avenue, away from the river area, whcih was historically more of a retail part of Downtown. So it made also made sense for First Wisconsin (back then) to build closer to the financial area of Downtown (closer to many of the other banks, insurance companies, and related companies), than to build near the river (or the "center" of the skyline--which was occupied by a significant mass of existing buildings, anyway).

As for clashing styles, well, that's a personal aesthetic preference, and not really related to urban design. And since that's a personal preference, the US Bank building doesn't take away from the Wisconsin Gas Light Building at all (which happens to be my favorite building in the whole city).

They're office buildings; just because one is taller than the other, or in a more modern style than the other doesn't really make one more significant than the other--it just makes one different than the other. It's a downtown buisiness district of a major city that's ever-evolving throughout time--there's supposed to be a variety of styles and heights all right next to each other.

The fact that the US Bank building was built where it was built has everything to do with real estate market forces. City/urban design isn't supposed to dictate how a skyline should look--that it should be "balanced" with the tallest building in the center with buildings getting shorter as one moves further away.

Since when has the area around USBank been uninviting? The tower is across the street from the NWML complex and just west of O'Donnell Park and the Miller Pavillion -- some of downtown's most open, inviting public spaces. Plus, the fact that it's not in a line of very tall buildings prevents the area from taking on a canyon-like effect, which is quite uninviting, btw. As for height, the NWML Data Center (395 ft) and 411 E. Wisconsin (410 ft) are within a few blocks of USBank, so that pretty much disproves the statement regarding USBank being too far from any other tall buildings. And Milwaukee's entire skyline is decentralized. There is no focal point. Even if USBank were on the river, the skyline would still be long and stretched out. Downtown is wider than it is long--a lot wider.

And if you don't like modern buildings sitting next to older buildings, don't walk around downtown Milwaukee...or any city, for that matter. As Markitect pointed out, that happens everywhere; cities are ever-changing, as is architecture. You want solid historicism? Move to Savannah. You want solid modernism? Move to Houston.

Since when has the area around USBank been uninviting?
I have to say I didn't write that quite the way I wanted to. I mean to say that at a distance the US Bank IMHO makes the surrounding area look empty and univiting. I'm sorry but that's how I feel.

When I'm walking in the midst of these buildings I look around and see the Wisconsin Gas, the NWML complex, the Juneau Apts, and even the new Cathedral Place and it is very attractive and inviting but then I look up at this 600ft wall of white and I have to ask myself what is this doing here. Everything else fits right in but this doesn't.
Fiddler and I are not the only ones who feel this way. I've been to Milwaukee with plenty others who don't quite understand it either.


The tower is across the street from the NWML complex and just west of O'Donnell Park and the Miller Pavillion -- some of downtown's most open, inviting public spaces. Plus, the fact that it's not in a line of very tall buildings prevents the area from taking on a canyon-like effect, which is quite uninviting, btw.
That's true but I'm not talking about the other extreme from being out of place because of major height and general size difference's to canyon-like, can't see the sun, effects. What's wrong with blending in yet still being the prominant fixture? I'm sorry but the US Bank doesn't blend in at all IMO.


As for height, the NWML Data Center (395 ft) and 411 E. Wisconsin (410 ft) are within a few blocks of USBank, so that pretty much disproves the statement regarding USBank being too far from any other tall buildings.
Not so fast CG5, you haven't disproved anything and you certainly haven't persuaded me to change my opinion either.

For one thing CG5 I did say that the effects of this isn't as profound as it first was. This is mainly because of the NWML complex and the 411 Building but the US Bank still looks out of place because even though the 411 Building is only 3 blocks over it still leaves a big gap and it doesn't help that it is what I consider the biggest mistake and eye sore in the Milwaukee skyline (skyscraper wise), an opinion held by many I might add. What's in between the two buildings? a seven story, block long, office building with parking lot and the old Fed Building, also taking up it's own block.

The NWML Data center was a good addition and does lessen the degree of the "out of place" feel to a certain extent but the feeling is still there. What's to the south of the US Bank? My answer is nothing. There's a freeway and large area's of ugly parking lot's. As for the height of the NWML DC being 395ft I say that's fine but take the pyramid off the top of the building and it isn't much taller than the older 17 story office building standing next to it. I guess this is why the building to me just doesn't seem to be 395ft.


And Milwaukee's entire skyline is decentralized. There is no focal point. Even if USBank were on the river, the skyline would still be long and stretched out. Downtown is wider than it is long--a lot wider.
That's right but wasn't it you who said "We can do better than that"? We can do better designing buildings but we can't do better in centralizing the downtown?


And if you don't like modern buildings sitting next to older buildings, don't walk around downtown Milwaukee...or any city, for that matter. As Markitect pointed out, that happens everywhere; cities are ever-changing, as is architecture. You want solid historicism? Move to Savannah. You want solid modernism? Move to Houston.
CG5, no one here said anything about new next to old being bad. US Bank is a big, huge box. I like big huge boxes but I believe they have their place in the skyline of a city. When they are in the midst of only small highrises and historic gems they do look out of place.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it! :)

You totally lost me.

Markitect, what does the reasons for where the building was built have anything to do with people feeling that where it was built makes it look out of place? People's perception of this has nothing to do with the buildings history quite frankly.


As for clashing styles, well, that's a personal aesthetic preference, and not really related to urban design. And since that's a personal preference, the US Bank building doesn't take away from the Wisconsin Gas Light Building at all (which happens to be my favorite building in the whole city).
What you said there doesn't make any sense to me. I mean if clashing styles is up to a person's aesthetic preference then why isn't whether the US Bank taking something away from the Wisconsin Gas just as much as a person's aesthetic preference? First your saying it is by personal perference than your saying it's not. Again, if I feel that the US Bank is out of place, no amount of knowledge of why, who, what, or how about the building is going to change my mine. Yet you say that since it is a personal preference it doesn't take anything away. What does that mean? My mine is playing tricks on me because of my personal preference? Are you telling me that I may think the US Bank is out of place but that because you say it isn't...then it isn't?

For an illustration:
You drive down a street where there are new homes as well as older homes in all different kinds of styles. Most of the homes you really like, some you love. They have nice beautiful landscaped yards, they're all well taken care of but then smack dab in the middle of the block there's this totally ugly house that Picaso looked like he had designed. The yard is unkept and is basically a trash bin. I know this is rather an extreme thought but are you going to tell me that not only this house isn't out of place but that it doesn't take away from the over all beauty or likeness you had for the rest of the street?


They're office buildings; just because one is taller than the other, or in a more modern style than the other doesn't really make one more significant than the other--it just makes one different than the other.
And I'm saying that when the difference's are so big that one of the buildings look out of place it takes a little away from the other building.


It's a downtown buisiness district of a major city that's ever-evolving throughout time--there's supposed to be a variety of styles and heights all right next to each other.
True but when there is one that is so different from all the others, it stands out and becomes out of place. I don't understand why you object so. I don't care how many times you try and tell me it's not out of place and explain to me about urban design but if I see it as being out of place I'm going to see it as being out of place. See to you, as it may seem, height doesn't mean a thing and that's fine but to me when you have one building that is so different in both style, and height, and over all size compared to all the other differing stlyes around it, it will look out of place.

You totally lost me.
LOL, well don't feel alone because you aren't the only person I have ever lost in conversation. :)

It took me like 5 minutes to figure out this "US Bank" you guys were talking about is the First Wisconsin building. I feel old and out-of-touch.

^^^LOL, I've been feeling like that too latley.

anyway, even though I know the the US Bank building doesn't fit in with the rest of the buildings downtown, for some reason it's my favorite building in city.

More changes for Pabst City?


PabstCity request is too rich, city leaders say
$75 million too much to ask, some say
By TOM DAYKIN
tdaykin@journalsentinel.com
Posted: July 28, 2004



The former Pabst brewery's redevelopment plans may need major changes, with city leaders saying the city's financial role in the project probably will be less than the nearly $75 million anticipated.


The project, called PabstCity, is a proposed $395 million transformation of the former brewery into a regional entertainment and shopping complex on downtown Milwaukee's northwest side. PabstCity's attractions would include a 16-screen cinema, a House of Blues nightclub, GameWorks entertainment center, as well as other restaurants, clubs, shops, apartments and offices.

The developers - led by Wispark LLC, Milwaukee; Ferchill Group, Cleveland; and TerreMark Partners LLC, Atlanta - hope to begin work this fall if they secure financing.

Their financing plan for PabstCity includes $74.8 million in public money, $178.9 million of private equity financing and $141.5 million of private loans, according to Wispark, the development arm of Wisconsin Energy Corp., a Milwaukee utility holding company.

Budget constraints
But Mayor Tom Barrett and several Common Council members said the city probably will not provide that level of funding. While they support PabstCity, they said, the city likely will play a smaller financing role.

"The first thing floated is the fantasy plan," Barrett said. "From there, there are discussions about what is feasible, given the city's financial condition."

The city's tight budget makes it "very, very difficult" to consider $75 million in financial assistance for PabstCity, said Ald. Michael Murphy, the council's Finance and Personnel Committee chairman.

PabstCity would create over 1,200 jobs within its shops, restaurants and venues, along with hundreds of construction jobs, according to Wispark.

The development would have 450,000 square feet of restaurants, entertainment venues and shops; 448,000 square feet of housing, with 200 condominiums and 360 loft-style apartments; and 100,000 square feet of offices. Two dozen historic brewery buildings would be preserved, while seven less valuable buildings would be demolished. Nine new buildings would be built.

The developers hope to create a regional draw for people who might otherwise go to the Chicago area to shop and relax. They say PabstCity would convert 24 acres of rundown, vacant buildings into a venue that would generate $5 million in annual property tax revenue and make Milwaukee more attractive to residents and visitors.

"We need to look at the return" on the city's investment when considering the proper level of public funding, Common Council President Willie Hines said. "Seventy-five million may be perfect," he said. "Or it may be too much. We may need to get it lower."

No formal proposal for city financing has been filed.

Wispark spokeswoman Margaret Stanfield said the developers will work with city officials throughout the development process.

Much of the city's help would come through a tax incremental financing district.

'Sticker shock'
The city has 39 active tax incremental financing districts. The biggest single investment is just under $20 million, at the Milwaukee Center, which includes an office tower, Wyndham Hotel and the Milwaukee Repertory Theater.

At $75 million, a PabstCity financing district would be the largest in Milwaukee. The size has created "sticker shock" among city officials, said Ald. Robert Bauman, chairman of the council's Public Improvements Committee.

PabstCity's developers should scale back their plans for new parking structures, said Ald. Mike D'Amato, chairman of the Zoning, Neighborhoods and Development Committee.

Earlier this month, Wispark director of urban development Dan McCarthy said plans call for three parking structures with 5,280 spaces, built with $38.75 million in city money. Another $16.7 million in city funds would pay for streets and public utilities. The remaining $19.35 million in public money would pay for demolition costs, environmental cleanup costs and other development expenses.

Reducing the number of parking spaces could make it more difficult for PabstCity to attract tenants and private money, said Brad Segal, president of Progressive Urban Management Associates, a Denver consulting firm that is not involved with the project.

PabstCity's parking needs are driven by its plans for entertainment venues. While stores require five parking spaces for each 1,000 square feet of store space, restaurants and nightclubs require twice that amount, and movie theaters want 20 parking spaces for each 1,000 square feet of space, he said.

Markitect, what does the reasons for where the building was built have anything to do with people feeling that where it was built makes it look out of place? People's perception of this has nothing to do with the buildings history quite frankly.

I brought up the history of the building, or reasons why it was built where it was (or whatever you want to call it), so people can have an understanding of why it is where it is. History is relevant, because it allows us to understand how we got to where we are in the present. That is separate from whatever perception people have of a building.

What you said there doesn't make any sense to me. I mean if clashing styles is up to a person's aesthetic preference then why isn't whether the US Bank taking something away from the Wisconsin Gas just as much as a person's aesthetic preference? First your saying it is by personal perference than your saying it's not. Again, if I feel that the US Bank is out of place, no amount of knowledge of why, who, what, or how about the building is going to change my mine. Yet you say that since it is a personal preference it doesn't take anything away. What does that mean? My mine is playing tricks on me because of my personal preference? Are you telling me that I may think the US Bank is out of place but that because you say it isn't...then it isn't?

No, that is not what I said. I said whether one likes the clashing styles/heights/etc. or not is a personal prefernce. And since those are personal preferences, I then gave my own personal preference/opinion: that the differences betwen US Bank and the Gas Building do not take away from the Gas Building at all--and that is coming from someone whose favorite building is the Gas Building (and I should also add, I like the US Bank Building too, for the most part--just get rid of the giant billboards on the top and improve the street-level/sidewalk area).

Yeah, the billboards really need to go.

Ok, so now that I'm not ridiculously overtired, I reread your post Neph. And let me start my reply by saying that I really frickin' hate it when people take quotes from me, remove them from context, and apply them to something in a completely different area. I said that the architects could have done better on 100 E. Wisconsin. How that has anything to do with centralizing the skyline is beyond me. Please explain.

Second, yes I did prove that USBank is not that far from other tall buildings. It's not. That's just a fact. How you percieve the pyramidal top of NWML's Data Center is irrelevant. It's all relative, and in Milwaukee, 400 feet is tall. Thus, USBank is near other tall buildings. Period.

I brought up the history of the building, or reasons why it was built where it was (or whatever you want to call it), so people can have an understanding of why it is where it is. History is relevant, because it allows us to understand how we got to where we are in the present. That is separate from whatever perception people have of a building.

I agree and so since it is a separate issue why did you bring it up? The history of a building is relevant but not in my perception of it on whether it's out of place in it's area or fit's right in. If you don't agree with me or Fiddler why don't you just debate us on the real reasons why people may see this building out of place? You haven't brought forward any arguement to us yet you seem to be saying we are wrong. Since you agree this perception is a matter of opinion then why even argue it?



No, that is not what I said. I said whether one likes the clashing styles/heights/etc. or not is a personal prefernce. And since those are personal preferences, I then gave my own personal preference/opinion:
I understand now and I can totally agree with that. It would've been nice if you would've explained this was your opinion or in the least used the word "I". I would've seen what you were saying right away. Thanks for the clarification!


--just get rid of the giant billboards on the top and improve the street-level/sidewalk area).
This subject has come up at least a dozen times since the beginnings of all the "What about Milwaukee" threads. I don't think anyone likes those signs, I know I hate them but I have to admitt the white US Bank sign is a lot better than those ugly green things!!!

CG5, I also hate being either miss quoted or what I say being taken out of context but do you want to know what I really frickin hate the most? I hate it when people try to tell me my opinion doesn't count even when they don't say it word for word.

Yeah, the billboards really need to go.

Ok, so now that I'm not ridiculously overtired, I reread your post Neph. And let me start my reply by saying that I really frickin' hate it when people take quotes from me, remove them from context, and apply them to something in a completely different area. I said that the architects could have done better on 100 E. Wisconsin.
I don't know whether you still need to wake up or what but I did quote you correctly and in the context you wanted it to be taken in. If you look closer to what I said (maybe use toothpicks this time) you will see that I did put your quote in quotation marks and then followed up with a question. The question is purely my thoughts and whether you agree or not it deserved an answer.

Now the question is...if you believe the architects, the city planners, and everyone else involved in the project could've done better with the 100 East then why can't they also do better in the general urban design of the city. The two, I believe, should go hand in hand. Separateing areas into clear, distinct districts is a plus for everyone. This is what I mean as "centralizing" and Milwaukee can do better in this respect I do believe.


Second, yes I did prove that USBank is not that far from other tall buildings.

LOL!!! In your mind maybe CG5, in your mind.


How you percieve the pyramidal top of NWML's Data Center is irrelevant.

How I percieve the surroundings of the US Bank to explain why I believe the US Bank as being out of place is totally relevant! This is what Markitect and I do find agreement in and you want to argue that?

CG5, argueing my opinion in this way does not and will not change my mind.


It's all relative, and in Milwaukee, 400 feet is tall. Thus, USBank is near other tall buildings. Period.
I agree 400ft in Milwaukee is tall but also concider this; In New York, two of it's taller buildings three blocks apart isn't a major distance but in Milwaukee two of it's taller buildings three blocks apart is. Period... :)

If you guys want to carry on with this I think what you need to do is explain the reasons why you believe the US Bank is not out of place in the area it's in.

Oh! I forgot I was going to give you guys the link to the site.

This is from the collections at the UWM libraries. CG5 I would think you'd have seen this site before?

http://www.uwm.edu/Library/digilib/Milwaukee/records/picture.html
Use the advance search...there are more photos and history there.
This site will also link you to the UWM main online library.

Has anyone checked this website out yet? I really do recomend it strongly!

Wow.

Why does this damn forum about milwaukee always remain on top?

Why does this damn forum about milwaukee always remain on top?

It's stickyed {sic}. This means the mods gave it a special designation since it is such a long-running thread that it will remain on the "top" until they decide it's finished. Which will probably be never.

paule, I saw the website. It was fly.

Why does this damn forum about milwaukee always remain on top?

Because Milwaukee ROCKS!!!! :rock: :D

HAHA...good enough for me =)

Great article by Whitney on perhaps my favorite new Milwaukee building!

http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/aug04/248104.asp

exerpt:

Although it is about twice as high as the building next door, and is a stone's throw from the 1847 Cathedral of St. John the Evangelist, the tower appears buoyant and neighborly, yet proudly modernist. So much for the notion that you can't put contemporary architecture in vintage settings without pasting on faux-historical detail.

I agree with her that this building does a great job of blending in yet is by far the tallest building on the square. Must be that "buoyant and neighborly" feel it has???

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/aug04/cathedral080104.jpg

Are there any recent pictures of the Kilbourn Tower? Anyone have any renderings of how this, and the University Club Tower will look on the skyline? They should both be nice additions to the skyline, particularly from the east.

Are there any recent pictures of the Kilbourn Tower? Anyone have any renderings of how this, and the University Club Tower will look on the skyline? They should both be nice additions to the skyline, particularly from the east.

Here's a not so good pic from the bay...at least you get the feel for where they are height wise so far.
http://www.boomspeed.com/paule17/0.jpg

I'm going to be in Milwaukee today and the next so maybe I can get some pics but the wheather forecast isn't very good.

Are there any recent pictures of the Kilbourn Tower? Anyone have any renderings of how this, and the University Club Tower will look on the skyline? They should both be nice additions to the skyline, particularly from the east.

Construction photos of Kilbourn Tower can be found online in a couple of places:

Skyscrapers.com Kilbourn Tower construction photos (http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/cs/?id=101589)

Kilbourntower.com In Progress photos (http://www.kilbourntower.com/in_progress.htm)


There haven't been any renderings showing both towers side-by-side in any of the local papers, though some were presented at a City meeting way back last year. Our very own CG5 once took the two separate renderings for each building, which happened to be close enough to be almost the same angle, and photoedited them together. It's somewhere way back in this thread.

Finally, there's a basic section drawing of UCT and KT on the Mandel Group's website (http://www.mandelgroup.com) (UCT's developers), that shows how closely together the two towers will stand.

A black-and-white rendering of what the Kilbourn and University Club Towers will look like side-by-side was published in the July 23 edition of the Small Business Times.

If you've read the paper at all in the last few days you probably have read the story about Ann Stover who died in a car crash in Mequon on August 6th. It was on the front page of the JS and most of the local news covered it. I knew her, but not that well. We were both in the same grade, but not good friends. It's very tragic, though. I'm in Charleston right now and I am pissed I couldn't make it to the memorial service.

Not only was Ann in the same class as mine, but her car acident happened within 200 yards west of my house, where I-43 passes under county line road in Mequon. I'm really pissed because flight for life is always somewhere near there and I always see really bad crashes there. Unlike a lot of other incidents, though, this was no one's fault, Neither driver was drunk, it was just a simple nudge from the other car and she over compensated for the close call and crashed into the support pole near the bridge.

Even though I didn't know her, my twin sister is friends with a lot of her friends and they are needless to say pretty down right now. Rest in Peace, Ann.

Bump

I try, and try to like this city, but I just cannot do it! The skyline is crazy small, there are a bunch of run down wards, and it just does not strike me as a progressive city. I know if I lived there, I would be able to see the good in it. It just seems so dank, and run down. Maybe the pictures just cannot do it justice. To be honest, I have never been to milwaukee to judge for myself though.

I try, and try to like this city, but I just cannot do it! The skyline is crazy small, there are a bunch of run down wards, and it just does not strike me as a progressive city. I know if I lived there, I would be able to see the good in it. It just seems so dank, and run down. Maybe the pictures just cannot do it justice. To be honest, I have never been to milwaukee to judge for myself though.

yeah, most pictures of Milwaukee don't represent the city very well. One of the reasons is that most of the people who take pictures of Milwaukee's skyline don't realize that Milwaukee does NOT have a lakefront skyline. Those pictures make it look like there's 1 40 something story building surrounded by a bunch of 8-10 story buildings.

IMO, the best view of the skyline is from a park on the near north side that I don't know the name of. It's on E. North Avenue between Holton Street and Humboldt Boulevard.
Another good one is from the Holton Street Bridge, just before Holton St becomes Van Buren Street.
And another good one is when your on I-794 West heading north(kind of ironic) towards downtown.

Just in case you plan on visting. :cool:

yeah, most pictures of Milwaukee don't represent the city very well. One of the reasons is that most of the people who take pictures of Milwaukee's skyline don't realize that Milwaukee does NOT have a lakefront skyline. Those pictures make it look like there's 1 40 something story building surrounded by a bunch of 8-10 story buildings.

Milwaukee does have a lakefront skyline--the residential high-rises along the bluff on the East Side; it's just not part of the Downtown area. It is just not often the subject of photographs.

IMO, the best view of the skyline is from a park on the near north side that I don't know the name of. It's on E. North Avenue between Holton Street and Humboldt Boulevard.

That's Kilbourn Park. The bluff there gives an excellent view of the Downtown and East Side skylines.

I try, and try to like this city, but I just cannot do it! The skyline is crazy small, there are a bunch of run down wards, and it just does not strike me as a progressive city. I know if I lived there, I would be able to see the good in it. It just seems so dank, and run down. Maybe the pictures just cannot do it justice. To be honest, I have never been to milwaukee to judge for myself though.

If you've never been here, how can you really say it has a "bunch of run down wards"? What large city doesn't have some run down areas? Yes, there are run down parts of Milwaukee; but there are also many many many great neighborhoods, healthy ones, as well.

Regarding progressiveness, Milwaukee has actually been quite progressive in urban design and development (just read through all the articles I've posted in this thread for evidence). One of the more progressive things that's been done in recent years is demolishing an underutilized freeway to make room for new development. By the way, much of that project can be credited to our former director of City Development--who is actually now working at a similar position in your very own Denver. Thanks can also go out to former mayor Norquist--who is now head of the Congress for the New Urbanism--a rather progressive organization dedicated to urban development, smart growth, and curbing suburban sprawl.

As for a "crazy small" skyline, like I mentioned above, there is more than one skyline in Milwaukee. But more importantly, judging a city by its skyline--or even photographs of neighborhoods--is like judging a book by its cover without reading the book.

As for a "crazy small" skyline, like I mentioned above, there is more than one skyline in Milwaukee. But more importantly, judging a city by its skyline--or even photographs of neighborhoods--is like judging a book by its cover without reading the book.

Very true, I totally agree Markitect. Milwaukee is a city where if you want to really get to know her you have to walk her streets. I can maybe agree with what Milehi is saying about milwaukee's skyline if you are to only view her from a distance but I do reject the thought that a city can be judged by the look of the skyline alone. I mean how can you tell if a cities downtown is thriving unless you get into the downtown and walk the streets?

Downtown Milwaukee used to be a pretty dead place after hours and on weekends but in the last 5 or 6 years the place in at least some places can get pretty busy. Places like the 3rd ward, around the art museum and surrounding parks on the lakefront, and the riverwalk. I find everytime I'm in Milwaukee Rockbottom is always busy as well as other restaurants on the river and the river itself is filled with pleasure boaters.

I think I can see why a few may see the skyline and think that there isn't anything there worth the trip but fortunately the large majority of people don't think this shallow. I know the ones who come find out they like what they see.

Redevelopment momentum from Walker's Point is slowly making its way westward, as reported in the Journal Sentinel recently. Old industrial buildings and warehouses are being converted into new residential, retail, and office uses along a stretch of W. Pierce Street, between S. 12th and S. 16th Streets. Some of the recent and upcoming reinvestment throughout the neighborhood include: several artist studios, a high-end antique gallery, a furniture restoration business, and expansion for an existing commerical kitchen business, and a new headquarters for the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce of Wisconsin.

Here's the article from the Journal Sentinel: Industry yields to retail along Pierce St. - Five-block area on near south side being reborn, a building here, another there (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/aug04/251020.asp)

Milwaukee County continues to search for a site to consolidate its administrative offices, which are currently spread across different locations throughout Downtown--notably at the Courthouse Annex (which has expensive maintainence issues) and at Schlitz Park (which cost $3+ million/year in rent).

Earlier this year, County officials announced one possible alternative would be a new office building and parking garage to be built on a County-owned surface parking lot at N. 6th and W. State Streets, in the Civic Center area. A new alternative under consideration is office space within the proposed PabstCity complex, a few blocks to the north.

Both options would allow the County to demolish the Courthouse Annex and discontinue leasing space at Schlitz Park. However, neither option would be chosen if studies reveal they wouldn't save taxpayers money.

Read about it in the Journal Sentinel: County may move offices to PabstCity - Idea could save taxpayers money, Walker aide says (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/aug04/252198.asp)

whats your intake on that Markitect? What would be the best option?

Oh, btw, I drove by Kilbourn Tower, looks like they're on the 19th floor. :)

whats your intake on that Markitect? What would be the best option?

Hard to say at this point, there isn't enough information about either option (how much they cost, what they'd look like).

With the site at 6th and State Streets, the County already owns the site--so there aren't any land acquistion or leasing issues. And like the article says, building a parking garage on that site (in addition to the office building) would allow the Coutny to rent out spaces at nighttime for other users (bradley Center, Arena, etc.) when office workers aren't parked there--which brings in revenue for the County.

The PabstCity site is much more indefinite, because nothing has been approved yet--the whole thing is just a proposal. While developers have some possible tenants, they don't have all the necessary financing in line yet (which includes a request for a $75 million subsidy from the City, which is way too steep, and unlikley to be granted).

Here is my stab with the two towers in photoshop. One of them is what I wish they would look like. I'm sure you'll know which one:
http://www.edgemagonline.com/xpers/1.jpg
http://www.edgemagonline.com/xpers/2.jpg
http://www.edgemagonline.com/xpers/3.jpg

http://www.edgemagonline.com/xpers/3.jpg

:lol: That would be f*ckin' awesome!!!!

right on brotha :)

AWESOME! That would be cool. Nice work. I think the UCT breaks ground in about a month, right?

Yes, September 24, supposedly.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-8/815504/uclubandkilbtowr.jpghttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-8/815504/uclubandkiltow.jpg

I think that perspective is more representative. The UTC is supposed to be about 75 feet taller than the Kilbourn Tower. I think the UTC is supposed to be about 450 feet tall.

Looksee that is beautiful, well done and thanks!

MKE-MSP I believe your right about the UTC being taller but I thought it was going to be taller than 450. I could be wrong...no biggy.

Hard to do pasting two images together, since the individual renderings are taken from slightly different viewpoints...but Looksee's is close. A little more accurate representation would be to slide UCT to the right some more, really close to KT--you won't be able to see much of the southern side of KT since the buildings are so close together.

Kilbourn Tower

Address: 923 East Kilbourn Avenue
Neighbohrood: Eastown/Juneautown (Downtown)
Use: Residential (74 condo units)
Construction: New
Height: 385 ft
Floors: 33
Year: 2005

University Club Tower

Address: 825 North Prospect Avenue
Neighborhood: Eastown/Juneautown (Downtown)
Use: Residential (56 condo units)
Construction: New
Height: 445 ft
Floors: 35
Year: 2006 (groundbreaking September 2004)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/unvclubandkilbtowr2.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/unvclubandkilbtowr.jpg

I finally got my pictures back from my trip to Milwaukee today. I accidently left my camera at my brothers house and had to wait until he could bring it back up here on a recent trip.

Ok, these pics were taken 8-4 and the progress appears to be at the 15th floor level
http://www.boomspeed.com/paule17/Kil0.jpg

http://www.boomspeed.com/paule17/Kil1.jpg

I thought I'd take a picture of the parcel of land where the UC Tower will be
going up. That's the Kil. Tower on the right.
http://www.boomspeed.com/paule17/Kil4.jpg

And as I was heading back to my car I thought I'd snap a pic down this street.
http://www.boomspeed.com/paule17/Kil3.jpg

I wasn't going to post this picture but what the hey. The next day I spent the day at the Wisconsin
State Fair. We all had a great time especially during the George Thorogood show!
http://www.boomspeed.com/paule17/Kil5.jpg

As a Chicagoan, I sometimes wonder if Milwaukee has missed its calling. Chicago and Milwaukee have, in many respects, pretty much merged into one huge metro area. Look at Kenosha County: despite being in WI, it is generally considered in Chicago's sphere and not Milwaukee. If you have any question about "one metro", catch a Brewer-Cub game at Miller Pk.

I believe that Milwaukee doesn't do enough to contrast the differences between the large and smaller city to its advantage. Sure you have the pitches to use Mitchell Field and abandon Illinois casinos for Pottawatomie, but, IMHO, you are missing a lot.

What would that "a lot" be?

You have the unique quality to a Chicagoan of offering a beautiful city with a wonderful lakefront setting, neat neighborhoods, great parks and beaches, but WITHOUT THE CROWDING, EXPENCES, TRAFFIC, PARKING, FRENZY OF CHICAGO.

You need to build on that. Your Old Third Ward is a charming area, beautifully restoring, but without the crowds of Chicago's River North. The restaurants there are trendy and good. Why aren't these pushed in Chicago and (in particular) the North Shore....if you live in Lake Forest, Highland Park, or Northbrook, a trip to Milwaukee, in many ways, is as easy as a trip to Chicago.

The Pabst development, from what I read, is an attempt to keep Milw $ from heading to Chgo for entertainment and shopping. Have they also given attention from drawing Chicagoans north of the border to use it?

What about a ship that went from Navy Pier to the Milw waterfront (either along the river or where....is it still there...Pieces of Eight is located), bringing folks from one city to the other for the evening and then transporting them back at 10 or 11 pm?

Chicago's huge size and popularlity can be a curse; it has become less and less user friendly. I really do believe that Milwaukee (a much nicer city than places like Detroit, St. Louis, etc.) is missing an opportunity to draw people to a city that might not have as much as Chicago, but what it has is very good and a lot more pleasant and comfortable to enjoy.

I'd be interested in thoughts from Milwaukeeans.


PS....I've often wondered why the Cub-Brewer rivalry can't challenge the Cub-Cardinal one. There was a time when Cubs-Braves was huge. And a lot of the Cub-Card thing is how downstate Illinois fights over both teams. Chgo is far more connected to Milw than it is to StL.

As a Chicagoan, I sometimes wonder if Milwaukee has missed its calling. Chicago and Milwaukee have, in many respects, pretty much merged into one huge metro area. Look at Kenosha County: despite being in WI, it is generally considered in Chicago's sphere and not Milwaukee. If you have any question about "one metro", catch a Brewer-Cub game at Miller Pk.

I believe that Milwaukee doesn't do enough to contrast the differences between the large and smaller city to its advantage. Sure you have the pitches to use Mitchell Field and abandon Illinois casinos for Pottawatomie, but, IMHO, you are missing a lot.

What would that "a lot" be?

You have the unique quality to a Chicagoan of offering a beautiful city with a wonderful lakefront setting, neat neighborhoods, great parks and beaches, but WITHOUT THE CROWDING, EXPENCES, TRAFFIC, PARKING, FRENZY OF CHICAGO.

You need to build on that. Your Old Third Ward is a charming area, beautifully restoring, but without the crowds of Chicago's River North. The restaurants there are trendy and good. Why aren't these pushed in Chicago and (in particular) the North Shore....if you live in Lake Forest, Highland Park, or Northbrook, a trip to Milwaukee, in many ways, is as easy as a trip to Chicago.

The Pabst development, from what I read, is an attempt to keep Milw $ from heading to Chgo for entertainment and shopping. Have they also given attention from drawing Chicagoans north of the border to use it?

What about a ship that went from Navy Pier to the Milw waterfront (either along the river or where....is it still there...Pieces of Eight is located), bringing folks from one city to the other for the evening and then transporting them back at 10 or 11 pm?

Chicago's huge size and popularlity can be a curse; it has become less and less user friendly. I really do believe that Milwaukee (a much nicer city than places like Detroit, St. Louis, etc.) is missing an opportunity to draw people to a city that might not have as much as Chicago, but what it has is very good and a lot more pleasant and comfortable to enjoy.

I'd be interested in thoughts from Milwaukeeans.


PS....I've often wondered why the Cub-Brewer rivalry can't challenge the Cub-Cardinal one. There was a time when Cubs-Braves was huge. And a lot of the Cub-Card thing is how downstate Illinois fights over both teams. Chgo is far more connected to Milw than it is to StL.


Good post.

The fact is, despite Milwaukee's best efforts, Chicago will always be a superior city. I guess to most people crowds and high prices are a small price to pay for world class entertainment, shopping, food and so on.

Big cities attract a certain type of people for a reason and they stay there for a reason. Why would the average Shaumburger and Willmetite want to drive about an equal amount of time (or more) to go Milwaukee when pretty much all they need is right there.

The real tie-breaker for this argument, I think, is about convienence and price. Chicago with it's downtown (and suburban) boom will be come so overcrowded and pricey that less upscale shopping and fewer activities will be a small price to pay for people who want a decent house for under 750 K. Throw in a high speed commuter rail system and people will move in droves on the first day. When that day will come, however, I have no idea.

Fiddler (may I call you Tevye?),

I think you are wrong about Chicagoans heading north....and I mean to Milwaukee (not Door Co, Dells, Lk Geneva, etc.). We do. You may be short changing yourself. Of course you are right that Milwaukee will never be Chicago, but you have enough on your own to make a very inviting product.

The Germanic architecture offers a urban fabric different from anything in Chicago. Your riverfront is open and relaxing...we've had lunch at Rock Bottom and its far more informal then dining along the Chgo River. The domes are an incomparable conservatory. Taste of Chicago is a fabulous variety of food, but we lack anything as encompassing as Summerfest (which, of course, draws huge crowds from Illinois). People do like day trips (or even an evening one) and Milwaukee is awfully close. As I said, I do think you folks are missing an opportunity.

As a Chicagoan, I sometimes wonder if Milwaukee has missed its calling.
I sometimes wonder about that myself. Hi edsg25, I'd like to thank you for such an interesting post. It's always good to hear opinions from our friends to the south :) I believe if Milwaukee ever "lost" it's calling it happend a long time ago. I believe the mind set in Milwaukee and in fact most of the cities in Wisconsin needs to be on the level of how we can turn things around to not only do alot better job at marketing our strengths such as some of the things you mentioned but also in creating a better business climate so people are more willing to take risks. Let's face it, anyone from out of town who has visited Milwaukee usually leaves pleasantly surprised and in awe at why they never hear more about this city. Milwaukee in my opinion is one of the best kept secrets in the nation and it shouldn't be that way. However that's how it's always been.

Out of all the large cities in the midwest Milwaukee always seems to get short changed and I believe Milwaukeeans know that and they have become so acustomed to it that it had created an inferiority complex long ago. I believe that's why life in Milwaukee is so laid back compared to places like St Louis, Cleveland, and Chicago. Milwaukeeans just don't expect much and don't see their city as anything special but just what I described shows one of the things that makes Milwaukee special. Milwaukee has become perhaps the largest small city in America.

Now as for your comment about Milwaukee and Chicago haveing grown into one big metro-plex I most certainly disagree. We have disgusted this subject in depth before in this long thread and I believe everyone has disagreed with that idea. I wont say it wont ever happen but it's many years away. Plus I believe Milwaukee and Chicago has enough difference's between the two that makes each city it's own special city with it's own different types of lifestyles. I've never been to Chicago but in these forums and in this very thread this is what we have discussed and with other Chicagoans and we all seem to agree on this fact.


Chicago's huge size and popularlity can be a curse; it has become less and less user friendly.
LOL, It became a curse to Milwaukee along time ago, Chicago's size that is. Milwaukee has always hid behind Chicago's shadow and I think in some ways alot of Milwaukeeans like that.

I really do believe that Milwaukee (a much nicer city than places like Detroit, St. Louis, etc.) is missing an opportunity to draw people to a city that might not have as much as Chicago, but what it has is very good and a lot more pleasant and comfortable to enjoy.
Alot of Chicagoans and others from around the midwest are starting to realize what you just said, at least I hope so. Your comments are very kind and we all here thank you for them! :)


I'd be interested in thoughts from Milwaukeeans.
I'm not a Milwaukeean but live in Wausau which is a town of 80,000 which is in the center of the state but I lived in Milwaukee when I was a young boy and do like to call it my "big brother city" even though I've been teased about that here before. My real big brother lives in "Stallis" so I am able to enjoy Milwaukee a few times a year anyway, LOL!


PS....I've often wondered why the Cub-Brewer rivalry can't challenge the Cub-Cardinal one. There was a time when Cubs-Braves was huge. And a lot of the Cub-Card thing is how downstate Illinois fights over both teams. Chgo is far more connected to Milw than it is to StL.
LOL, ha, First Milwaukee needs to get a real major league team before there will ever be a real rivalry! Once that happends LOOK OUT!!! You will see a bigger rivalry than the Cards and the Cubs! The Brewers had a big rivalry with the White Sox but to be perfectly honest with you...White Sox fans are no Cub fans! They are the rudest bunch of people but Cub fans are the greatest and when the Brewers can actually field a real team...again LOOK OUT!!!

Neph, may I assume that when you said "Milwaukee and in fact most of the cities in Wisconsin needs to be on the level of how we can turn things around to not only do alot better job at marketing our strengths such as some of the things you mentioned"

that you were excluding Madison. I can't imagine anybody in the country thinking that that city doesn't totally have its act together. Is it save to say, in light of your observation that Milw doesn't get respect, Madison is pretty well universally respected?

Big cities attract a certain type of people for a reason and they stay there for a reason. Why would the average Shaumburger and Willmetite want to drive about an equal amount of time (or more) to go Milwaukee when pretty much all they need is right there.
I think you make a good point here when your talking about Chicagos northern suburbs yet what do you think about the average actual chicagoan who would like to "get away", see something different yet keeping it a day trip? Please consider our old friend Sharptent who lives next to Wrigley Field who loves comeing up to Milwaukee for the day several times a year. Granted he's not in the majority but since the Milwaukee Art Museum addition more people like him are makeing their plans to travel north for the day. I've seen him make the comment a dozen times that he loves the idea of knowing that a city like Milwaukee is just a short trip away from downtown Chicago. Like what edsg25 was saying, Milwaukee already has a good product to sell and if you ask me it's a matter of willing to sell it and not selling it'self short. edsg25 sounds so much like Sharptent that I wouldn't be surprised that it is him but I'm also not surprised that there is others living in Chicago who see Milwaukee as inviting and worth the day trip.

Neph, may I assume that when you said "Milwaukee and in fact most of the cities in Wisconsin needs to be on the level of how we can turn things around to not only do alot better job at marketing our strengths such as some of the things you mentioned"

that you were excluding Madison. I can't imagine anybody in the country thinking that that city doesn't totally have its act together. Is it save to say, in light of your observation that Milw doesn't get respect, Madison is pretty well universally respected?
Well I guess I will have to surprise you and say that I was including Madison in my "other Wisconsin cities" comment. Let me explain because I do know that Madison does have a national reputation for being one of the best places to live however Madison did miss the boat because when the city had it's chance to become one of the high tech centers of the country it passed on it. I don't know if you know this but the University is the largest research university in the country. In the 60s and mostly the 70s when high technology was booming the state of Wisconsin and mostly Madison didn't capitalize on the research being done in it's own backyard. Austin Texas is a prime example of a city that rewarded the use of the research being done in places like the UW and putting it to business to make money and create jobs. In the 60s Austin Texas was pretty much the same size as Madison at the same time yet ask yourself which way did these cities go. Austin became a 1,000,000 city in the last few decades with it's major industry surrounding high tech. Now look at Madison...granted for a midwest city it's grown rather well but is still along ways away from 1,000,000 and it's chief employer is the UW along with a company that makes wieners. I'm sorry that's a knock against one of my favorite cities but do you see what I'm saying?

Madison passed on the oportunity and places like Austin took advantage.

edit to say that I do believe Madison still has it's act together, I would never argue that!

Neph,

That is one NARROW isthmus that the heart of Madison lies to want to have been the center of an Austin-like growth. Consider to it being midwestern, not southwestern; it was just not going to grow like Austin (or Charlotte, Nashville, San Antonio). And isn't that actually a great point? I think it is wonderful to be a city of some 200,000 and, through UW and other sources, be the sophisticated city that Madison is. This is a city that appears high on everybody's list for quality of living issues; I can't imagine that holding with 1/2 million more Madisonians.

Neph,

That is one NARROW isthmus that the heart of Madison lies to want to have been the center of an Austin-like growth. Consider to it being midwestern, not southwestern; it was just not going to grow like Austin (or Charlotte, Nashville, San Antonio). And isn't that actually a great point? I think it is wonderful to be a city of some 200,000 and, through UW and other sources, be the sophisticated city that Madison is. This is a city that appears high on everybody's list for quality of living issues; I can't imagine that holding with 1/2 million more Madisonians.

I wont argue with everthing you said because you make some good points. Let me ask you if you have ever been to...lets say Seattle? Seattle also has a very good reputation for it's quality of life and ranks high in all other catagories. At a time not so long ago Seattle wasn't anywhere near the size it is now yet it has remained one of the mainstays in polls and studies as being one of the best cities in the country in many catagories. It's population growth didn't seem to effect it's quality of life very significantly at all and perhaps because of the growth it did have, the perception of the city got even better throughout the country. I guess what I'm asking is just how can you explain that the quality of life would be deminished if Madison grew at the same rate as Seattle or any of those other southern cities you and I mentioned. I just don't believe that if Madison would have grown at the same rate the quality of life standard would have suffered much. I could be wrong...

To me the main subject isn't so much population growth as much as the quality of jobs that we could have seen as a result if Madison and the State of WI and even Ill would have capitalized on the research being done up here. I've heard that Madison is perhaps the best research school in the nation concerning bio-technology. What good does that do us up here if the places where these graduates go are to out of state employers? At the time I believe Madison and the state should have and could have made it more appealing for business start ups in these fields and the great sucking sound we have heard from our universities over the decades wouldn't have had to be so loud.

Again, don't get me wrong, Madison is a great city and most probably a wonderful place to live. I'm proud to call her my state capital but I have to believe that Madison could be even more special. Imagine a metropolis of 1,000,000 people between Chicago and the twin cities on I 90/94. One that is unique around these parts being a national center for not only learning but also a center for high tech industries. It's a beautiful city already with great recreation so what I see is a city that could've been, not just the pride of Wisconsin but the pride of the midwest as well. Not that it could ever have rivaled Chicago but perhaps rivaled the twin cities for it's rank as second or third best in the midwest.

Let me also add that there is more than one reason for southern cities haveing grown so fast in such a short amount of time. Take away the demographics like retires and people just wanting to move to a warmer climate and I will suggest that the main reason for their growth rates lie somewhere between that and quality, high paying jobs.

I'll be willing to conceed that my arguement about population growth could be a moot point but when you consider that what I'm talking about is retaining our young it does hold some merrit. This wouldn't have to be so much about convinceing people to move to Madison in droves but mearly to convince our own young people to stay home. You do that by providing them with high quality and high paying jobs. Madison and the state could have done this but in my opinion they didn't or at least they didn't make it a top priority. As a result I believe Madison and other Wisconsin cities have suffered a certain extent from it. Madison is a great city but it could've been even greater!

Neph, I don't disagree with your observations at all, but my point about Madison wasn't that it an isthmus (that works fine for Seattle), it was that it is about a mile across in the downtown area and that would cause problems if madison were a large metro area. A huge population would negatively affect traffic downtown and at UW.

Neph, I don't disagree with your observations at all, but my point about Madison wasn't that it an isthmus (that works fine for Seattle), it was that it is about a mile across in the downtown area and that would cause problems if madison were a large metro area. A huge population would negatively affect traffic downtown and at UW.

OH! I SEE WHAT YOUR SAYING NOW, LOL!
I have to admitt I really haven't considered that aspect of it and would have to think about that for awhile.

Man...I feel like I'm being too long winded around here. I hope I don't come across to you as a pompus ass but I just like to hammer things out...you know?

Neph, you share your opinions in detail to those who want to read them while respecting other people and their opinions (and I don't have to tell you how many people in today's america don't do that on the internet, or off of it). How can you question the fact that you are doing exactly what you should be doing?

Here's one I'm curious about and don't really know (despite plenty of familiarity with both cities):

what exactly is the relationship between Milwaukee and Madison?

Despite Milwaukee's size advantage, I always felt that it doesn't have the draw of the state as Madison does for reasons other than the later being the state capital. I guess part of it is that UW is not your typical state university (more Ann Arbor in atmosphere than Champaign) and that the city's confining real estate between two lakes gives it an unusually urban feel for a smaller city, as well as a sophistication you don't usually see with 200,000 people, Madison is just different. Madison, maybe because of the # of Chgo area kids at UW, seems more tied to Chgo than the Milw feeling of being in Chgo's shaddow.

What does that do to the relationship between the two. And am I off-base on my observations?

Milwaukee and Madison are two very different cities, obviously. They really don't need each other that much becuase, traditionally at least, Madison is a high tech college town and Milwaukee is a manufacturing town. Working Class Milwaukee's thumb their those at Madisonians because of their percieved intellectualism. Madisonians look down at Milwaukee as an uneducated working class city. Traditionally, at least. I think that attitude will change as the cities change.

Milwaukee and Madison are two very different cities, obviously. They really don't need each other that much becuase, traditionally at least, Madison is a high tech college town and Milwaukee is a manufacturing town. Working Class Milwaukee's thumb their those at Madisonians because of their percieved intellectualism. Madisonians look down at Milwaukee as an uneducated working class city. Traditionally, at least. I think that attitude will change as the cities change.
I really don't know Madison that well to say but with my limited impressions of the people and the city itself I would have to agree with most of what you have said. However I believe as Madison continues to grow, this small in state rivalry (if there really is one) will grow stronger as The area's residents begin to feel that they can compete with Milwaukee as being the top dog in the state. That however is a long ways away.

I know people who are graduates and or drop outs of UW in Madison and the impression I get from what they have told me about the place is that Madisonites don't really think about Milwaukee at all and in fact the whole midwest for that matter. Madison is an island to them not surrounded by water but by midwestern farmlands and traditional attitudes and morals. In short Milwaukee is not a city on their radar.

So I think that you are a little off base with your observations because I'm not sure that people in Madison really give a hoot about Milwaukee. They're not trying to clime the ladder to get to Milwaukee's level, you know? They don't believe they're in the shadow of Milwaukee at all but that perhaps they're creating their own shadow. Milwaukee isn't the the goal Madison is trying to achieve.