What About Milwaukee?

[CG5]

Here goes Part IV!!!


We've experienced some...uh...technical difficulties Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused. But here are some so-weeeet aerials to make up for it!

http://www.calatrava.com/1/PB/58/biga.jpg

http://toddcam.com/site/newmilw/air.jpg

http://www.aerooptics.com/images/MKEScan9.jpg

Here's an interesting image...
http://www.glasinc.com/images/MillerPark400.jpg
FULL IMAGE (http://www.glasinc.com/images/MillerPark1200.jpg)

[Bond James Bond]

Well I'm not from Wilmaukee ;) nor have I ever been there but I've always admired the way you guys do these looooong threads so I thought I'd drop in and say Keep up the good work, seems like good city spirit. :)



EDIT: I just realized, almost 2 years later, that I spelled ^Milwaukee wrong!! :D

[Fiddlerontheruf]

What "technically difficulties?"



I really like that first aerial, however. The density is a little off, but the fog adds a great effect.

[TYW]

:D :)

Any night pix?

[Fiddlerontheruf]

Why, yes!!!

http://www.touchtmj4.com/4chopper4/pictures/milwnight.gif

[MiL-TowN]

Alright good, the forum works again:)


lol, check out this funky little place called Lean's Custard-
http://agency.travelwisconsin.com/PR/Photography/Summer/images/00170022_JPG.jpg
I wonder what neighborhood that is in
http://www.bikethehoan.com/harborview.jpg
Just a cool pic

[CG5]

I don't have any night shots, but I have some nice sunet pics!


http://www.cyburbia.org/gallery/data//500/818milwaukee2037-med.jpg

http://www.cyburbia.org/gallery/data//500/818milwaukee2046-med.jpg

:cool:

[Insomniac]

Damn, so does anyone have any pics or interesting info about Milwaukee? Half this thread's a chit-chat between fiddleontheruf (who everyone thought was a guy in his 20's from SC but instead is a teenager from Milwaukee) and brewcity. (Have you guys ever heard of private messaging, email, etc.?). So, how's about something actually relevant to the thread?

Oh, BTW, I have to commend you Milwaukee guys for starting a "What about Milwaukee" thread like this every time the board changes. Let's go for 30 pages this time! ;)

[Fiddlerontheruf]

Sorry Insomniac, but a LOT of the stuff about Milwaukee has already been covered. However, there will always be stuff to talk about, I'll just refresh your memories......


1. Lafayette place (info?)
2. Kilborun Tower (new info?)
3. University tower (anyone?)
4. Cathedral place (construction pics???)
5. 1522 on the lake (Finished yet?
6. Any other proposed towers
7. Suburban development
8. City festivals
9. Resurants, bars n' shit
10. other!!!!!!!!!

[CG5]

FOr those of you who missed it the first time, here's my most recent photo tour of downtown (it was posted on the WSF about three weeks ago.)

http://skyscrapercity.com.mantis.acceleratedweb.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1285

[CTroyMathis]

Milwaukee Art + Sol on the Lake.

Starting the thread anew
with photographs
Milwaukee citizens are plenty used to:

http://www.jsonline.com/onwisconsin/arts/mam/image/wallpaper/inside800.jpg
http://www.jsonline.com/onwisconsin/arts/mam/image/wallpaper/5800.jpg
http://www.jsonline.com/onwisconsin/arts/mam/image/wallpaper/3800.jpg
http://www.jsonline.com/onwisconsin/arts/mam/image/wallpaper/1800.jpg
http://www.jsonline.com/onwisconsin/arts/mam/image/wallpaper/7800.jpg

[Insomniac]

Great photos, but what is Art + Sol? I've seen it posted on the other forum several times.

[Markitect]

Originally posted by MiL-TowN
Alright good, the forum works again:)


lol, check out this funky little place called Lean's Custard-
http://agency.travelwisconsin.com/PR/Photography/Summer/images/00170022_JPG.jpg
I wonder what neighborhood that is in


Actually, it's Leon's Custard, at the corner of S. 27th Street and W. Oklahoma Avenue. It is said to have been one of the inspirations for Arnold's--the local hangout for Richie, Fonzie, and the gang in the Milwaukee-based TV show "Happy Days."

[Fiddlerontheruf]

Just got back from Arabian fest with some of my homies. Took the chairleft, which was probably 30 feet off the gorund. Well, needless to say, the view was spectacular. It was just becoming dusk and you could see most skyline angles from there.



And SPRECHERVILLE ADMITS HE IS FROM MILWAUKEE, AND THAT HE IS 24. Not surprised?

[MiL-TowN]

Well, I never admitted I'm from Milwaukee but I am 24, suprise surprise!

[CG5]

Lol...go figure we hit two pages in three days. Same old, same old. :D



Cap'n!!! Are you serious???? Are you really gonna do a Milwaukee Art + Sol? Oh, I think I'm gonna shit myself!!

[CG5]

Check out the kick-ass old pic I just found!

http://www.inficad.com/~ksup/img/racine.jpg

[Jimmy James]

Happy Days was the first thing I thought of when I saw that Leon's Custard Pic!

Being from Australia - all we generally know about Milwaukee is what comes from TV shows like Happy Days, Laverne & Shirley etc, so it good to finally see some pics of what the city looks like.

A lot bigger than I expected! :)

[Fiddlerontheruf]

Milwaukee metro pop: 1.6 million

[djcody]

this interesting...

[djcody]

sorry, this *is* interesting

[seeka]

CityGod, that is a kick ass photo. Gosh, Milwaukee has so much to offer as far as old buildings go.

And Sprecherville, or whatever your sn is, we all know your from Milwaukee so you might as well admit it.

[Paule]

OH For the Cri-I Lets get this started! WTF!

MJS Article
http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/sep02/80538.asp

[Paule]

The new American Freedom Center has got to stick in the craw of the peace lovers in Wisconsin with this proposal. From the discription I see the place will teach about the histroy of the wars Wisconsin has been involved with.

The achitecture of the building is very, very bland. Here's a rendering.
http://www.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/sep02/vets2091602.jpg

It's a one to two storey building but yet with a modern look to it. From reading the article I see that the plans for the building were intentionally subdued for the somple fact that the Calatrave art muesum is to the south. I Agree that the next building next to the art muesum sould be something totally different, but this plan is in the extrem of different and in the line of being the status quo for MILWAUKEE! I say Boo But I can't help love the fact to see, hear, and experience the things going on in Milwaukee!!! At least the City is moving forward! That I think we all must love!!@!!

I'll be back!

[djcody]

beautiful pic paule

[SprecherVille]

I will have Milwaukee posts up sometime

[SprecherVille]

http://img3.ranchoweb.com/images/bgt2/im000868.jpg

http://img3.ranchoweb.com/images/bgt2/im000870.jpg

http://img3.ranchoweb.com/images/bgt2/im000871.jpg

http://img2.ranchoweb.com/images/bgt2/im000883.jpg

http://img2.ranchoweb.com/images/bgt2/im000889.jpg

http://img2.ranchoweb.com/images/bgt2/im000894.jpg

http://img2.ranchoweb.com/images/bgt2/im000902.jpg

http://img2.ranchoweb.com/images/bgt2/im000905.jpg

[CG5]

Excellent pics, man! Very nice! My fave is the second-to-last pic...the one of the Miller Park roof. Awesome job!

[Fiddlerontheruf]

OK guys, seriously now. Here is a cool article I just found. Maybe some of you would be willing to try this?

http://www.onmilwaukee.com/buzz/articles/condotours.html

[brewcity]

Did anyone bother to read the article I posted on our defunct commuter rail. Im disgusted that the state would allow us to miss a golden opportunity to put in such an extensive system for a dirt cheap 250 million. I would rather hav rail then Miller Park.

[looksee]

Leon's Frozen Custard
Directions: From Hwy 894 take the 27th Street exit North. Go about 1-1/2 miles and it's on the west side of 27th Street, just before Oklahoma Ave. It is located between Morgan Ave. and Oklahoma Ave.
http://www.foodspot.com/leons/leons_map.gif :cheers:
http://67.36.169.126/pix/10551_1.jpg

[Markitect]

Yes, Brewcity, I saw the article you posted in the paper the other day. I also saw your post last night, but haven't had sufficient time to compose a respone until just now. Head over there and check it out.

[djcody]

cool article.

[BGT]

HAHA!

Where did I find those pictures?



I took them. Yes I took those "awesome" pictures.

Thanks for the feedback.

[jada]

Please keep on topic everyone.

[Markitect]

Originally posted by Fiddlerontheruf
OK guys, seriously now. Here is a cool article I just found. Maybe some of you would be willing to try this?

http://www.onmilwaukee.com/buzz/articles/condotours.html

So I went to the Downtown Milwaukee Open House and Expo (described in the article Fiddler linked to) yesterday afternoon at Pere Marquette Park. There were several tents set up in the park under which local realty groups and developers had some things on display (rental info, pictures of various developments, design proposals, etc.).

Unfortunately, since it was sort of a last minute decision to check it out, I arrived just as they were dismantling their displays late in the afternoon. However, I did manage to stroll over to the Mandel Group's (big-time local developer) tent before they packed up, and was very interested in what I saw:

Pfister & Vogel Tannery - Last year Mandel bought the P&V Tannery complex--a jumble of old brick industrial buildings on the northern edge of Downtown, along the Milwaukee River and N. Water Street.

The proposal calls for demolishing the tannery complex (too costly and difficult to rehabilitate it) and developing a cluster of apartments and condos with street-level retail (160 units in Phase One, expected to be completed in 2004--and ultimately 550 units when fully developed in, hopefully, six years). There were a couple of rendering of the proposed development, and they looked awesome!

The site, which is about two [very long] blocks long will be divided into a few pieces, forming a few smaller blocks. Each block will have a cluster of buildings arranged in a square-ish shape, with a courtyard in the center of each of them. Short streets will be cut between the blocks to form a connection between N. Water Street and the river. An interesting part of the design was the small, narrow street right along the river--which looked like it would serve as a shared pedestrian/vehicular pathway (much like the narrow, tree-lined streets that line the canals of Amsterdam), which will eventually be linked to the ever-expanding RiverWalk.

Here's a street-level rendering of the proposed design that was on display at the Expo (and appears in the OnMilwaukee.com article).

http://www.onmilwaukee.com/images/articles/P_V_200x140.jpg

Also displayed was an awesome bird's-eye view rendering of the development, and another ground-level view of the project from the RiverWalk on the opposite bank of the river (superimposed over a current photograph taken from the spot).

University Club Tower - Yes, you read that right--University Club Tower. After the original Calatrava-designed proposal by Burke Properties fell through, the Mandel Group (with Kahler Slater Architects, I think?) picked up the ball on this project.

There was a rendering of the latest version of the proposal on display...and, quite honestly, it looked a little bland. It was just sort of a white or off-white high rise just plopped on to the site. There wasn't really anything special or extrordinary about it (as opposed to the soon-to-be-built, could-be neighbor, Kilbourn Tower).

Like I said, they just began dismantling the displays as I walked into the tent, so I didn't have much time to look at everything for as long as I would have liked to, and I did not ask any of the representatives any questions either. I'm sure more information will be publically released in the near future (perhaps a nice Whitney Gould artcile in the Journal Sentinel).

Although I did not take any of the advertised tour and open houses of the various Downtown apartments and condos, I did take a leisurely stroll along the river, via the Beerline developments on Commerce Street on my walk back up to UWM.

The Milwaukee River Challenge - Oh, and as I was on my way to the exhibits in the park, I happened to catch part of the Milwaukee River Challenge (http://www.milwaukeeriverchallenge.com/spectator.html)--a high-speed rowing cometition through the heart of Downtown. Rowing crews from across the county came to participate in the race, one of the only kind in the nation.

[Fiddlerontheruf]

Cool markitect! Is there a place on the web where I can find a rendering for the University Club Tower? Personally, I could care less if it would be built. If another 20 plus story building is built it may increase that infamous gap between water street and the Firstar area. I love the Kilbourn tower, so thats fine for now.


P.S.: Isn't it time for and update on skyscrapers.com for Milwaukee? I know they don't give "jack shit" as far as Milwaukee's concerned, but it's been like 5 months since I've heard anything from there.

[Nick]

Milwaukee is one city I now nothing about.It s on Lake Michigan right?Up from one of the worlds most famous cities,Chicago

[MSPtoMKE]

Originally posted by Nick Clapham
Milwaukee is one city I now nothing about.It s on Lake Michigan right?Up from one of the worlds most famous cities,Chicago

Yep, Milwaukee is about an hour and a half north of Chicago on Lake Michigan. Haha, you can tell I'm from the midwest, where distances are measured in hours and minutes! I didn't know very much about the city before last year, when I came here to go to school. It really is a very cool city, especially the part I am in, the East Side. Is there anything in particular you would like to know about it, Nick?

[djcody]

Damn, i wish i would have known earlier about this expo. would have been fun to go down there. I'm glad they are still proposing univ. club tower. Does anyone know when they'll havea another expo?

[CG5]

Lol...wish I would have been free on Saturday. I was a fool not to go. Thanks for all the information for all us slackers Markitect. Very cool stuff. I would expect a Kahler-Slater design to be bland. Their work is pretty lackluster from what I've seen, save for the 6th Street Viaduct (which, correct me if I'm wrong, was a collaboration with another firm.) Their plan for the dt revitalization is great, but the firm is second-rate.

And I was checking out OnMilwaukee.com, and I reaelized (embarassingly, for the first time ever) that they have a huge section of e-postcards, including a large selection of dt shots. Check it out at the following link:

http://www.onmilwaukee.com/postcard/index.html

[Markitect]

Originally posted by djcody
Does anyone know when they'll havea another expo?

According to the Greater Milwaukee Association of Realtors, this was the second annual Downtown Milwaukee Open House, so maybe they'll set up another one next year.

[Markitect]

Originally posted by CG5
Their work is pretty lackluster from what I've seen, save for the 6th Street Viaduct (which, correct me if I'm wrong, was a collaboration with another firm.) [/url]

David Kahler himself provided the conceptualization of the bridge--which is an obvious nod to Calatrava (they were working together with the art museum addition at the time). I believe Kahler Slater pretty much did the preliminary design work, and numerous other firms collaborated their specific (more technical) areas of expertise. Here's a list of them:

http://www.sixthstreetviaduct.com/1c_team.htm

[djcody]

For the exception of the 6th street bridge, what other work has Kahler-Slater done around milwaukee?, so i can get an idea of what their work looks like....:)

[Markitect]

The Kahler Slater website has a portfolio (http://www.kahlerslater.com/4_portfolio.html) displaying a small handfull of projects they've done. I wouldn't say their work is pretty lackluster, though. Some projects, yeah; but it's not a common theme running through all of thier works.

[Paule]

For those of you who missed my thread on the front page Cities and Skylines forum here it is.
http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2368

[CG5]

Markitect - your link isn't working. But I figured out where it was supposed to go. Here's another link:

http://www.kahlerslater.com/4_portfolio.html

Like I said, lackluster.

[djcody]

Cool, thanks you two, found it. In my opinion, i was expecting worse, so even though i still havent seen the Uni.Club Tower proposal, i can get an understanding of their work.

Paule: great thread! Love that view. wish i lived downtown.

:dj:

[CG5]

WEll, I started the original What About Milwaukee? either the day after or two days after I joined the forum (SSpage.) Since I joined on 9-23-01, that would make this thread a year old today (or tomorrow)!!

Yay thread!!! :D

[MSPtoMKE]

Congratulations, CityGod. You created quite the thread a year ago, and the one on this forum seems to be picking up, too.
I checked out the Kahler site as well. Nothing spectacular, but not bad.

[Paule]

Bad, Bad news! I hope this doesn't effect the Kilbourn Tower plans. The developer is in big trouble! Please read!
http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/sep02/82624.asp

[MiL-TowN]

I don't think they can drop the Kilbourn Tower now, it is nearly starting construction and the funding is already done. So whether this guy goes to jail or not, the project will still likely go through.

[djcody]

Holy crap! All i gotta say is "cross your fingers". I almost forgot we lived in Milwaukee, because where else would this happen? I'm just kidding....i know this could happen anywhere...hope everything pans out....time for a drink, hehehe :cheers:

[CG5]

What a fucking moron. If the Kilbourn gets cancelled I asy we riot and kill the fucker. (I'm referring, of course, to that asshole developer.) Let's bust a cap in his ass.

[MiL-TowN]

No, lets not and instead admit that this project will probably still go through...


http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3239

[Markitect]

Originally posted by CG5
What a fucking moron. If the Kilbourn gets cancelled I asy we riot and kill the fucker. (I'm referring, of course, to that asshole developer.) Let's bust a cap in his ass.

"Asshole developer"?

You want to kill, one of the primary movers and shakers of Downtown/Third Ward/Lower East Side residential development during the past few years?!

You want to bust a cap in the ass of the person responsible for contributing so much to the city within such a short amount of time? A man responsible for developing a lot of the projects we talk about here every day?

Such an irrational, and quite frankly immature, knee-jerk reaction isn't necessary.

Sure, he's in some legal troubles right now over something completely unrelated to his development company, but your statements are a bit harsh, regardless of that fact.

I've talked with this guy before (everyone knows him as simply "Borris"), he was nice enough to take some time to let me interview him for a class project (on his cellphone, no less, while he was on his way to a meeting).

I suggest you calm down and wait to see what happens.

[MiL-TowN]

:guns1:

[Markitect]

Anyway, here's a new article about the future of Kilbourn Tower. (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/biz2biz/sep02/83107.asp)

And also a new article about the Blue Ribbon City development. (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/sep02/83067.asp)

[jada]

Yay thread!!!

yay thread!!! :) Just had to put in my two bits on this thread. ive been cultivating it and watching it grow, and deleting all the crap posts, so in a way I feel somewhat responsible for the success of this thread. Although really I have nothing to do with it.

[Paule]

Thanks Jada for helping to keep the thread clean. If there's one thing I can't stand is a crap filled discussion,lol! Sincerely though thanks for the interest!

MiL-TowN I think I know Jack good enough to know he's speaking in anger and disappiontment and nothing more. He'll get over it!

Thanks for the links Markitect. I loved the story of the planning commission meeting and the guy who is criticizing the Kilbourn plan and then Gokhman stands up and annouces the guy had talked about buying a condo in the Kilbourn Place implying that he is two-faced,lol, what a gem! I now see why he's called the Donald Trump of Milwaukee!!!
I'm just a little worried about the whole project still. The article really didn't answere the question about how the Gokhmans legal troubles will effect the project. They leave alot of ifs, ands, and buts in the story. Too many possibilities.

I must admit that Blue Ribbon City project bothers me. I just don't like the fact that there's going to be so much office space in the project. They say 150,000 to 200,000 sq ft of office space. I would rather see a developer build a new office tower downtown rather than renovate old small buildings away from the core. I also don't like the fact that retail is planned away from the Grand Avenue Mall and W Wisconsin Ave. How is this development going to effect the retail there. I'm not totally against the project but I'm not all that excited over it either.

[Paule]

I have more photos to show! I don't think this thread should be all discussion do you?

I don't know where in the city this pic was taken because once again I didn't take it but found it on the web but you have to admit it's a nice photo! It's full of color and I love those porches on the all brick houses.
http://img3.ranchoweb.com/images/paule17/37434010utmjdk_ph.jpg
lol, this guy seems to be having a swell time drinking alone at The Rock Bottom Cafe. Must not have been able to make up his mind on what drink to order!
http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/paule17/49661873vvkjka_ph.jpg
Beautiful shot from the Marina
http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/paule17/45495611tjmjsp_ph.jpg
A picture angle of the City Hall I've never seen before.
http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/paule17/44665811thfljt_ph.jpg

[Markitect]

Originally posted by Paule
I'm just a little worried about the whole project still. The article really didn't answere the question about how the Gokhmans legal troubles will effect the project. They leave alot of ifs, ands, and buts in the story. Too many possibilities.

Yes, it was pretty vague. He does have a partner in his development company, so it could be possible that he'd take over should Borris be convicted.

I must admit that Blue Ribbon City project bothers me. I just don't like the fact that there's going to be so much office space in the project. They say 150,000 to 200,000 sq ft of office space. I would rather see a developer build a new office tower downtown rather than renovate old small buildings away from the core. I also don't like the fact that retail is planned away from the Grand Avenue Mall and W Wisconsin Ave. How is this development going to effect the retail there. I'm not totally against the project but I'm not all that excited over it either.

Despite two office buildings under construction, demand for office space in Milwaukee is pretty low right now. Not to mention a couple of large firms with offices in Downtown have decided to go out of business, leaving behind a significant hole in the office market. Add all the proposed office space in Blue Ribbon City (which, by the way, is kind of a silly name, thoug I understand its significance) to that, and you've got quite a bit of office space. Hopefully, demand for office space will pick up by the time the project gets rolling.

As for the retail, the developer has mentioned in previous articles that he intends to attract a different niche in the retail market than what the Shops of Grand Avenue has (or will have). Also, don't forget that he plans on developing some of the Pabst complex into residential units, so he might try to land some neighborhood-oriented retail there, as opposed to what's in Grand Avenue and W. Wisconsin Avenue. I imagine that a large portion of the project seems to be catered to entertainment venues (nighclubs, restaurants, bars), that some of the retail might also be entertainment-oriented, which is again, very different from what the mall and Wisconsin Avenue offers.

[jada]

Paule, that first pic you posted is absolutly stunning. It would be a dream of mine to live on a road like that. Are gardens typical in residential neighbourhoods in Milwaukee? I know thats a strange question, but trust me, some cities do not apppreaciate nature.

I might be going to Milwaukee soon, I'm not entirely sure. I'll let you guys know if I go there.

[Paule]

Yeah,yeah,yeah, yeah, little pink houses babe for you and me,hahahahaha!!!!!!!!whooooooo!!!!@!~!

Thank you Jada, I love your post!
Gardens aren't typical but they're not hard to find, at least I don't think so. I'm more a Stallis guy then Milwaukee(West Allis is a suburb of Mil) so what do I know? I must say though downtown Milwaukee and the environs can be very green and beautiful, not too urban but not at all vacant.

Jada please, PLEASE if your ever on your way to Milwaukee let me or us know about it! Your one person I'll gladly drive 200 miles to meet and enjoy an afternoon with!

[Paule]

Markitect,
I knew the offices that Arthur Anderson had at 100 E Wisconsin would go but what is the other firm? Anyway this doesn't concern me too much. Right now there is too much of an influx of people centering on the downtown that I think the demand will come. I also heard that alot of those ex Arthur Anderson employees work at 411 now. I forget what firm but I saw the article in the JS some time ago this summer.

Talk about the other stuf latter, I have to go!

[Fiddlerontheruf]

Yes, Paule, that first pic is pretty cool! I'd guess thats on the near north side, within a block of the Lake. It looks like a very orginale neighborhood. That victorian archetechture is very rare in Milwaukee, other than the East side.

[MiL-TowN]

No victorian architecture is not hard to find in Milwaukee, and gardens are not hard to come by.

[Markitect]

Originally posted by Paule
Markitect,
I knew the offices that Arthur Anderson had at 100 E Wisconsin would go but what is the other firm? Anyway this doesn't concern me too much. Right now there is too much of an influx of people centering on the downtown that I think the demand will come. I also heard that alot of those ex Arthur Anderson employees work at 411 now. I forget what firm but I saw the article in the JS some time ago this summer.

Talk about the other stuf latter, I have to go!

Yes, a lot of the ex-Anderson people are now working at Deloitte & Touche at 411 East Wisconsin. This still leaves a big hole in 100 East right now, where Anderson used to be.

The Bank of New York is considering leaving its office space in the Milwaukee Center, and splitting its operations between Madison and the Milwaukee area (they're eyeing at places in suburban New Berlin), once its lease ends this coming summer.

Revolving renters may alter downtown Milwaukee market. (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/biz2biz/sep02/72012.asp)

Some good news, however, is that Cathedral Place has landed its second major tenant. (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/news/sep02/83414.asp)
Also note, New Land Enterprises (Boris Gokhman) is playing a primary role in developing the condos in Cathedral Place.

[Markitect]

Originally posted by Fiddlerontheruf
Yes, Paule, that first pic is pretty cool! I'd guess thats on the near north side, within a block of the Lake. It looks like a very orginale neighborhood. That victorian archetechture is very rare in Milwaukee, other than the East side.

Actually, Victorian architecture is pretty easy to find in any part of the city that was built between roughly 1860-1900 (give or take a few years), when the Victorian style was popular in the United States. This would include way more than just the East Side neigborhoods, but also the Near North Side, the West Side, and yeah, even the South Side.

The photograph in question could have been taken in any one of those neighborhoods. It's too bad we don't know where so we could pinpoint the date of construction.

[Paule]

To shead light on the pic in question I do know that the photographer is the same guy who took the condo pics downtown that I used to make my thread in the other forum earlier last week. All his pics were of downtown Milwaukee and the east side so I assumed that that nieghborhood shot was in or around downtown Milwaukee. He had many more pics like this one.
http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/paule17/48293894ngsjlf_ph.jpg

[Markitect]

And now for the inevitable question:

Could you give us a link to the source of these photographs?

[Paule]

Well all right then! Here's where I get most of my pics. The gig is up lol!
http://www.webshots.com/search/search.fcgi?cl=1&ch=1&ws=1&new=1&words=Milwaukee&I1.x=22&I1.y=16

[MiL-TowN]

Omg, that site sucks....barely any of the pics work and they are usually the best looking ones.

[djcody]

wow, there are a lot of "ups" and "downs" in the downtown market are right now! It's kinda scary, but i just wanna see the area just take off, but i'll be patient... for awhile , hehehe

[rstravis]

heh ... I too am clueless about that first pic, Paule. In the last 6 or 8 months that I lived in Milwaukee I got to be pretty darned familiar with the north side and the east side; that is definitely not on the east side, but I am clueless as to where that would be on the north side too ... only possibility I could think of is directly west of downtown, maybe a little bit north of Blue Mound Road.

But if I really had to guess, I'd guess somewhere on the South side. course, that's only because I know nothing about the south side. *shrugs* I'm stumped, and I can't just drive around to see anymore either.

And I picked a durned time to move away from MIlwaukee, right before Jada came to visit ... I tell ya. Shoulda lived there for a couple more months, just so I wouldn't miss this golden opportunity ... heh

Rob

[Fiddlerontheruf]

Hey Rob, How's Grand Rapids?

[MiL-TowN]

A random and rather stupid shot of Milwaukee-
http://www.ivcf.org/glw/wi/jv/milwaukee_skyline.JPG
And I would do anything for an enlarged version of this picture-
http://www.marquette.edu/comm/grad/media/lakefront.jpg

[CG5]

Well hell! I've been away for far too long. Beautiful pics Paule - I agree with jada - that first one is quite artful. Also, thanks to Markitect for all of the articles. I almost had an information overload there...like I said, away too long...

BTW - that comment re: Gorkhman - that was some good old patented CG5 caustic rant humor. It wasn't actually meant as a death threat. Jeez, guys, get real.





WOO HOO! post #100! :grouphug:

[Markitect]

Originally posted by MiL-TowN
And I would do anything for an enlarged version of this picture-


Anything?

Here you go (albeit pixelated quite a bit):

<img src="http://www.marquette.edu/comm/grad/media/lakefront.jpg" width="1000">

[Fiddlerontheruf]

Wow, that pic Markitect just inlarges just reaffirms my anticipation for the Cathedral Place tower to be built. I just can't wait to see that huge gap fill in!:dj:

[CG5]

I don't see how Cathedral Place will be filling in that view. It's not a spectacularly high building. It'll add some background bulk, but it won't be anything to scream about (the effect on the skyline, not the building itself. The building itself is pretty cool.)

[CG5]

Wow...people in Brookfield are pretty stupid. :)

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3778

[MiL-TowN]

Lol, and Milwaukee wonders why it's declining...


I hope everyone involved in that article dies :guns1: :guns1: :guns1:


BTW- The Cathedral Place won't full in that gap, but the Kilbourn Tower will...and yes I'm still pretty sure it will be built, New Land Enterprises even said they think they will go forth will the building.

[MiL-TowN]

AHA!


Found a pic of the boat we should all take sometime in a Milwaukee meet, I'm sure you could get some pretty good pictures out of it-
http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v0/6/13/84/49661384WHkdjF_ph.jpg

[djcody]

i think the best view of the city is from the ol' park east highway. For some reason you can see the belly of Milwaukee and a lot more buildings than from I94. Cathedral Place might poke out of the skyline from the park east view...and you can see 1522 too.

[Fiddlerontheruf]

DJ cody--that view from above the old park east freeway is fair, but the city is best viwed, IMO, about a mile or so west of the lake near Brady street. Right above the beer line neighborhood, there is a small but fairly steep, very quaint hill that is an absolutely stunning view of all aspects of the skyline.

[MiL-TowN]

Rarely seen city, Kenosha Wisconsin-
http://community.webshots.com/r1/1/93/37/11019337RuqGCvxyEi_ph.jpg

[CG5]

Now I see why it's rarely seen.


;)

[Markitect]

Originally posted by Fiddlerontheruf
DJ cody--that view from above the old park east freeway is fair, but the city is best viwed, IMO, about a mile or so west of the lake near Brady street. Right above the beer line neighborhood, there is a small but fairly steep, very quaint hill that is an absolutely stunning view of all aspects of the skyline.

Brady Street is too far south. The hill you're speaking of is in Kilbourn Park, a few blocks north of Brady--between Commerce Street and North Avenue, just west of Humboldt (at the north end of the Beerline). Awesome views from that spot. Another great view is further down the bluff atthe southern end of the Beerline, by the Crescent Condominiums. If the weather cooperates, and I get my hands on a camera, I might venture down there to take some shots one of these days.

[djcody]

i agree,that park is an awesome place to see the city at its best... good place to live and have a living room window facing the city! Here is a question for all to answer : How do think Milwaukee will look like in the year 2050 ( think of transportation, buildings, population, downtown, suburbs, etc...) ???

[MiL-TowN]

Lol I hope you guys don't mind me always wandering off topic like this...but I think its all right to share things about Wisconsin in general, eh?

Big Manitou Falls is the highest falls in Wisconsin at 165 feet it is the 4th highest falls East of the Rockies. Located 12 miles South of Superior Wisconsin in Pattison State Park on the Black River.
http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v0/2/94/58/50129458rxHgpN_ph.jpg

[Fiddlerontheruf]

Sprech, I can't see any of those pics!

[Fiddlerontheruf]

Originally posted by CG5
I don't see how Cathedral Place will be filling in that view. It's not a spectacularly high building. It'll add some background bulk, but it won't be anything to scream about (the effect on the skyline, not the building itself. The building itself is pretty cool.)

If you look close enough you will see the only building oer 15 stories inbetween roughly the US Bank building and 411 Wisconin is the Wisconsin Gas Building. As you can see, that is the most noticiable feature between the two, so I beg to differ with that statement.

[MiL-TowN]

Can anyone else besides Fiddler not see the pics?


At first I thought that was you just pokin fun at Kenosha, but did you mean you can't see the pic in the first place CG5?

[CG5]

Lol...no, I can see Kenosha just fine. Must jsut be Fiddles' computer. Anyway, I guess I was thinking something weird when I made that statement about Cathedral Place...it will fill in that gap. It will be higher than the Pfister, right?

[BGT]

WHY DON'T WE JUST CLOSE THIS THREAD AND START A MILWAUKEE FOURM UNDER THE NORTH AMERICAN SKYSCRAPERS FORUM?

[MiL-TowN]

Why don't we just close your account here?

[MiL-TowN]

It would be on accident of course...

[MiL-TowN]

Omg, I spamming at an amazing rate...


Lets do something fun and joyous that will make us all happy, list your favorite Milwaukee building!

http://www.skyscrapers.com/files/transfer/6/2002/06/152153.jpg

Milwaukee Center, good design and it sure does look tall.

[Paule]

Sounds like fun MiL-TowN!
The Mitchell Building is my fav. I just love the architecture, the ornamentation, the attention to detail. It just makes for a beautiful building.
http://people.msoe.edu/~reyer/mke/1876a.jpg

Oh and I can't see Spreachers pics either!

[CG5]

Milwaukee Art Museum

http://www.mam.org/site/photos/images/mam10.jpg

http://www.mam.org/site/photos/images/mam1.jpg

[Steely Dan]

my favorite milwaukee building (it's really really hard to choose just one and i love all the suggestions given so far, but i am a real sucker for classic art deco beauty and this one is just brilliant)

Wisconsin Gas Building

http://people.msoe.edu/~reyer/mke/1930a.jpg

http://www.skyscrapers.com/files/transfer/6/2002/06/152157.jpg

the weather light at the top is a fun and quirky bonus, and i absolutely love the way that the color of the brick gets gradually lighter as the building rises. there are also some marvellous proportions here in regard to the setbacks and the placement of them. a true classic!

[Fiddlerontheruf]

Landmark on the Lake

http://www.wmsecurities.com/fall2001/1_picture.jpg

[djcody]

since i'm dumb and don't know how to post pictures, i'll just tell ya what my favorite milwaukee building is : its the Faison Building! It's so lit up at night and it looks good during the day !

[Fiddlerontheruf]

To cope and paste pictures off the internet, just type in a search on images.google.com (this site omits any extraneous info in the area of the picture, so all you get is a picture). After you have copied the url (make twice on the picture to get the largest version) then hit IMG up there on the bar up above the screen you type in. just delete "html://" and cope the adress. Thats how we post pics. :)

[MiL-TowN]

That might be confusing Fiddler, try this instead...



(img)www.whatever.com(/img)


But instead of the ('s and )'s put ['s and ]'s

[looksee]

I've got two apartment buildings, very similar, practically across from each other but built a generation apart, that have always set me dreaming about what Milwaukee might be:

1260 N. Prospect Ave.,1938:
http://people.msoe.edu/~reyer/mke/1938a.jpg

Lodgewood Apartment Building, 1121 N. Waverly Pl., 1954:(and the sight selection and materials choice for this one are just brilliant--has to be seen in person)
http://people.msoe.edu/~reyer/mke/1954b.jpg
http://www.skyscrapers.com/files/transfer/6/2002/06/152316.jpg

[Fiddlerontheruf]

Looksee, you must be loaded! You have a house in Madison and two condo sin Milwaukee? Wow! That second condo has an amzing view. Paule started a thread that contained photos from the top of that building and it was pretty cool.

[looksee]

Originally posted by Fiddlerontheruf
Looksee, you must be loaded! You have a house in Madison and two condo sin Milwaukee? Wow! That second condo has an amzing view. Paule started a thread that contained photos from the top of that building and it was pretty cool.
Picky, picky, picky. OK. How's this?
"Respectfully submitted for your approval:"
http://www.wallys.com/eichlrod.jpg
Now go get loaded yourself

[Markitect]

Originally posted by Fiddlerontheruf
Looksee, you must be loaded! You have a house in Madison and two condo sin Milwaukee? Wow!

He didn't say he had two condos--as in owned two condos; he said he had two apartment/condo buildings that are his favorite buildings in Milwaukee.

[CG5]

I'd like to know your favorite MKE building, Markitect.

[Markitect]

I don't have one.

Too many to pick from.

[jada]

Should this thread be in City Issues?

[Paule]

Jada I've always thought so. Why CG5 always wanted to start the thread here I don't know.

[Fiddlerontheruf]

I like this thread here but move it if you will.

[djcody]

are we moving?

[Markitect]

875 East under construction:

http://www.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/oct02/money100702.jpg

[syramo]

Wow thats massive, is there a way to upload pics from your hard drive.

[CG5]

Great pic. The building is pretty boring, but hey - - it's something.

As for the location of this thread, I could care less if you moved it. It really should be in City Issues. I started it here because it was in S&S in the old forum. So I figured go with what works! So...I did. :)

[djcody]

great view! what floor is that pic taken off of? also... i think it would be hard to decide where we should move this thread to, because we talk about everything about Milwaukee on here. but i guess it doesn't matter. Any news about Kilbourn? Lafayette? How about the USBank addition( whatever it is)? Seems to be quiet on the forefront, huh? Also i read in the newspaper Yonkers is moving their headquarters to Milwaukee! Some good news at least.

[MiL-TowN]

Well, we can probably kiss any chance of Peck Row being restored...there was a fire. Kinda sucks, it was a very rare style of architecture in Milwaukee.

[Paule]

Milwaukee's expanding on what it's doing right. You know I keep hearing on how Milwaukee doesn't have leaders and how it needs leaders but then how does the river walk succeed like it does and why is it it's expanding like it is.
I know one of the things I love about Milwaukee now is the new river walk that is going up in the 3rd ward. I can't wait untill it's completed. I saw some of the start of it this last summer and I know it'll be a big hit! Boy you Milwaukeeans really don't realize what potential you got!

Anyway read this article if you haven't already, it's from JSonline and what I'm talking about.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/oct02/86479.asp

[Fiddlerontheruf]

Originally posted by djcody
great view! what floor is that pic taken off of? also... i think it would be hard to decide where we should move this thread to, because we talk about everything about Milwaukee on here. but i guess it doesn't matter. Any news about Kilbourn? Lafayette? How about the USBank addition( whatever it is)? Seems to be quiet on the forefront, huh? Also i read in the newspaper Yonkers is moving their headquarters to Milwaukee! Some good news at least.


Are you sure about that Yonkers thing?

[Markitect]

Originally posted by Fiddlerontheruf



Are you sure about that Yonkers thing?

See for yourself. (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/News/oct02/84403.asp)

[djcody]

Great article Paule! To have the riverwalk eventually expand to the menomonee and kinnickinnic rivers is pretty cool....

CG5-from that last pic you posted (think its 875 E.Wisconsin) wasn't it supposed to be 18 floors? (bad memory) When is completion due?

Also, i was reading something about population estimates in another thread and i was wondering what milwaukee's 2002 census estimates were? Does anyone know??

[neqquah]

Does anyone have any information on the Park East redevelopment project?

[Markitect]

Originally posted by djcody
CG5-from that last pic you posted (think its 875 E.Wisconsin) wasn't it supposed to be 18 floors? (bad memory) When is completion due?


I posted the 875 East pic. I don't know at which floor of a nearby building it was taken from. 875 East will only be 8 stores. (http://www.jsonline.com/bym/image02/jan/ingbig010202.jpg) I think it was originally supposed to be taller, but tenants of the nearby US Bank Tower raised concerns over their lake view being obstructed, so 875 was shortened. Regardless, I think it's a very ugly building (hopefully it's just the rendering that's bad, and the real thing will look nicer).

Cathedral Place, on the other hand, will be 18 stories.

Both buildings are supposed to be completed in mid-2003.

[Paule]

Sorry Neqquah but your going to have to explain yourself a little bit more. I know of the Park east freeway demo and the Pabst project that is near but I know of no Park East project.

By the way welcome to the thread!

[Paule]

Markitect you think the rendering of 875 is ugly? Looks like a pretty standard modern building to me. I don't think it's ugly but I do think a bit bland. I also heard the story of it supposed to have been something like 18 floors, Milwaukee is full of NIMBY's!

[neqquah]

Originally posted by Paule
Sorry Neqquah but your going to have to explain yourself a little bit more. I know of the Park east freeway demo and the Pabst project that is near but I know of no Park East project.

I heard that once the freeway is gone, there is going to be about 26 acres of land open for redevolpment. Does anyone know what all of that space is going to be used for?

[Markitect]

Originally posted by Paule
Markitect you think the rendering of 875 is ugly? Looks like a pretty standard modern building to me. I don't think it's ugly but I do think a bit bland. I also heard the story of it supposed to have been something like 18 floors, Milwaukee is full of NIMBY's!

The fact that it's a "standard modern building" coupled with its blandness is exactly the reason why I think it's ugly. All it appears to be is a squat glass box--and with some very very dark glass at that. It doesn't seem to fit the context very well. But like I said, hopefully it's just the rendering that looks bad. Compare it with the other modern building going up in Downtown--Cathedral Place. Now that's a good, non-ugly, non-bland, modern building.

[Markitect]

I made a rather lengthy post about the Park East project at the old WSF message board. I'd dig it out if it's still floating around in cyberspace (which is still was a few weeks back) if I knew where to find it (hint, hint).

Anyway, no, there are no specific plans as to what will be developed in the freeway corridor yet. Such plans cannot really be made until the elevated freeway is completely removed, the new streets and blocks are built, and the urban design guidelines are finished.

Demolition appears to be coming along well. It's an amazing sight! All of the chunks of concrete are being ground up into gravel to be recycled back into concrete again (there's a huge mound of gravel (probably 3 or 4 stories tall) at around N. 4th and McKinley Streets), and the steel rebar is going to be sent to the scrap yard for recylcing as well. Most of the former westbound lanes are gone already. The former eastbound lanes are still standing and reconfigured to carry two directions of traffic until it is finally demolished sometime this winter.

I haven't been over to the western end of the project lately, but I think some work is already being done with laying out a brand new McKinley Street (which will be a six lane boulevard on that end).

I don't know all the details of the urban design guidelines and visioning process, but I can assure you they are in the process of being written.

A model will also be unveiled in the coming weeks showing existing buildings and the new configuration of the streets and blocks; however since development proposals aren't possible yet, I don't think it will include any new buildings (unless they're just generic space-fillers) until developers make their proposals which can then be inserted onto the model.

I saw a rendering the other day showing the visioning of the new McKinley Boulevard--menaing not specific development projects, but a hypothetical view of what it could look like--and it blew me away. And no, it's not publically available yet.

[djcody]

hopefully, when the park east comes down and they start to redevolpe the area we can see some tall building go there and give our downtown some depth. I know this won't be for awhile due to Milwaukee's struggling economy, but it is something we can hope for.

I asked this before, but i don't think it was posted or what happened. Where do we (all milwaukee forumers) see Milwaukee in the year 2020 and/or 2050?? think of Population, Skyscrapers, Freeways, City size, etc. etc.

[neqquah]

Originally posted by Markitect
I made a rather lengthy post about the Park East project at the old WSF message board. I'd dig it out if it's still floating around in cyberspace (which is still was a few weeks back) if I knew where to find it (hint, hint).

Anyway, no, there are no specific plans as to what will be developed in the freeway corridor yet. Such plans cannot really be made until the elevated freeway is completely removed, the new streets and blocks are built, and the urban design guidelines are finished.

Demolition appears to be coming along well. It's an amazing sight! All of the chunks of concrete are being ground up into gravel to be recycled back into concrete again (there's a huge mound of gravel (probably 3 or 4 stories tall) at around N. 4th and McKinley Streets), and the steel rebar is going to be sent to the scrap yard for recylcing as well. Most of the former westbound lanes are gone already. The former eastbound lanes are still standing and reconfigured to carry two directions of traffic until it is finally demolished sometime this winter.

I haven't been over to the western end of the project lately, but I think some work is already being done with laying out a brand new McKinley Street (which will be a six lane boulevard on that end).

I don't know all the details of the urban design guidelines and visioning process, but I can assure you they are in the process of being written.

A model will also be unveiled in the coming weeks showing existing buildings and the new configuration of the streets and blocks; however since development proposals aren't possible yet, I don't think it will include any new buildings (unless they're just generic space-fillers) until developers make their proposals which can then be inserted onto the model.

I saw a rendering the other day showing the visioning of the new McKinley Boulevard--menaing not specific development projects, but a hypothetical view of what it could look like--and it blew me away. And no, it's not publically available yet.

Thanks for the info:cool:

[djcody]

MY ENVISION-(for fun)
The year 2020: Milwaukee Business sector has been picking up for the past 12 years, just around the time the Marquette Interchange was revamped and expanded to 5 lanes each way, and 5 new Condo/Apt towers(3-18story; 2- 25 story), 3 Office buildings have gone up since then (1- 15 story; 1-22 story; 1- 30story). Investors start to see Milwaukee as a city with potential, especially since the construction of the a light rail system and the completion of the riverwalk now covering the milwaukee/kinnickinnic/menonomee rivers. The city cencus for the year 2020 is 675,000 with a metro of 1,700,025 climbing with a slow start and now growing steadly faster...

[CG5]

I can't wait to see what they put on the old Park East land. I was downtown yesterday with seeka (aka sparkee) and we saw the freeway coming down. If any of you get the chance, head down and take a gander. It's so cool! It looks like a scene straight out of SoCal. :lol: And while you're down there, check out Leonardo da Vinci and the Splendors of Poland at the MAM. Very cool exhibit. Some of the paintings of old Warsaw and Krakow blew me away. And there was that da Vinci paintng...I guess that was nice. ;)

I was a little disappointed though. It was late on a Friday afternoon and things were prety dead everywhere we went - East Side, Downtown, MAM, Urban Park, and the Third Ward. Took pics, but they ALL SUCKED, even though it was a great day. Then I paid 10.50 to have them all developed...that was a real fucking treat. :ohno:

[Markitect]

Here we go...reposted from the old message board (apparently, in response to a question from Neequa, so I guess you get to read it again!). Originally posted July 22, 2002

I happen to know a little bit about the Park East project...

Park East History

The Park East Freeway (WI-145) is the very short segment of freeway (no more than 1 mile in length) located on the north side of Downtown, a block away from MATC and the Bradley Center. It connects the North-South Freeway (I-43) to Fond du Lac Avenue (WI-145) on the northwest to the Lower East Side.

Back in Milwaukee's freeway building boom, plans called for encircling Downtown with a freeway loop--the Park East Freeway (WI-145) on the north, the East-West Freeway (I-794) on the south, the Lake Freeway (north of the Hoan Bridge) on the east, and the North-South Freeway (I-43) on the west. Most of the loop was built before local residents prevented the Lake and the easternmost part of the Park East from completion. The Lake Freeway (which would have plowed right through Juneau Park and severed the Milwaukee County War Memorial and Milwaukee Art Museum from the rest of Downtown) would have connected the Park East with the Hoan Bridge.

A swath of neighborhood was demolished for the entire length of the Park East, from I-43 to Juneau Park, but growing opposition and lack of funding only allowed a short segment to be built (bewteen I-43 and N. Jefferson Street) while the remaining portion (N. Jefferson Street to Juneau Park) sat vacant for 20 years (which was demapped as a freeway corridor and eventually redeveloped as the upscale residential/retail East Pointe Commons by the Mandel Group--only one lot, at the corner of E. Odgen and N. Prospect Avenues remains undeveloped today).

The Vision and Plans

Land values and demand for development immediately adjacent to constructed segment of Park East remained stagnant ever since it was built--as there's not much interest in building next to an elevated freeway. Furthermore, since the spur was designed to be part of a never-to-be-completed loop, the design of the existing segment over-compensated for the amount of traffic that actually used it. In other words, the spur is underutilized for its design.

These factors prompted Mayor Norquist, the Department of City Development (DCD), and the Southeastern Wisconsin Regional Planning Commission (SEWRPC) to investigate the removal of the Park East. They found that demolishing the elevated spur would open up over 20 acres of land for development and provide upwards of $220 million of commercial and residential development.

The redevelopment project calls for several infrastructure improvements and changes. The Hillside Interchange, where Fond du Lac Avenue and the Park East passes over I-43 will be reconfigured as a standard diamond interchange. Moving east from there, the road will ramp down to an at-grade intersection with N. 6th Street. From there, the road will become W. McKinley Avenue--redesigned to be a four lane landscaped boulevard (plus a parking lane on either side). A new lift bridge, at the Milwaukee River will link the road to E. Knapp Street on the other side. Some of the one-way streets on the east side of the river will be reorganized as two-ways to accommodate traffic patterns. Water and Juneau Streets will most likely receive some improvements too (right-of-way adjustments, medians, etc.).

Catalytic Development

As of yet, any developent within the current freeway right-of-way hasn't been released yet. I suspect that won't happen until the freeway is gone, the new streets are set in place, the land has been subdivided, and the urban design codes/guidelines have been set (which are in the works). There are, however, some on-going projects and proposals for areas nearby the corridor:

- East Pointe Commons: This retail and residential development located at the end of the corridor (the freeway used to dump you out at the parking lot of the Pick N' Save) is pretty much built up except for an empty lot by the lakebluff and a one or two or so vacant retail buildings (I can't remember if anything is going into the old John Ernst Restaurant building yet (Interesting side-story--back in the frwweay building boom when the Park East was being routed, the John Ernst restaurant was in the path of the freeway. However, I heard a rimor that the place was Mayor Henry Maier's favorite restaurant, so the freeway was proposed to make a subtle curve to avoid demolishing it. The rest of the block was pretty much leveled to make way for the freeway--the built portion never quite made it to that block though)).

- Schlitz Park/Harley-Davidson museum: The parts of the old Schlitz Brewery that weren't demolished were converted into a successful retail/office rehabilitation project. The new Harley-Davidson museum (haven't heard much about this lately--the architects must be quietyly working on it) is supposed to go into some of the old Schlitz buildings. It was supposed to open in 2003 for Harley's centennial anniversary, but like I said, things have been quiet lately, so I don't know if it'll be ready or not.

- The Power Plant (don't know the official name for this one): A beautiful old power plant along the river has been rehabilitated as mostly office space (the local Time-Warner Cable offices are located there).

- The Beerline: Named after the railroad line that ran along the river to send/receive deliveries to Schlitz and Pabst, this area along N. Commerce Street stretching from E. Pleasant Street to N. Humboldt Avenue has exploded withresidential development ranging from high-end condos (some of which were under construction and damaged by fire a few weeks ago) to some less-expensive single family houses and townhomes (soon-to-be-built).

- Brewer's Hill: Sitting atop the bluff from the Beerline (with a kick-ass view) is Brewer's Hill--a gentrifying neighborhood filled with turn-of-the-century (uh, not the most recent turn, but the one before that) homes and former brick industrial buildings that have been rehabilitated primarily as lofts.

- Pfister & Vogel Tannery: This huge complex along N. Water Street was recently purchased (by Mandel, I think). I believe this is the $75 million office/condo project Brewcity mentioned above.

- N. Water Street: The Highbridge condo development (developed by New Land Enterprises) is underway along N. Water Street. I believe the first phase is already completed and the second is under construction.

- MSOE Kern Center: The Milwaukee School of Engineering is planning to build a new gymnasium in one of the ugly surface parking near N. Broadway and E. Knapp Streets (next to Grace Lutheran Church). Santiago Calatrava made some sketches the building for MSOE while back. However, those plans are now dead. MSOE has hired local the firm of Uihlein Wilson Architects to design the new gym.

My apologies if I missed a few.

You Can Please Some of the People Some of the Time...

People are divided on this issue. Big time.

Many of the people who want the spur to stay live on the Lower East Side. The freeway is convenient for them, since they basically have their very own personal on/off ramp to the rest of the world. Another significant portion of the opposition is made up of suburbanites, who also like the freeway for its convenience. It gets them into Downtown as quick as possible, so they can do their stuff, and then get out of Downtown as quick as possible (because most seem to think Downtown is "evil" (wich of course, it isn't)). Opponents also seem to feel personally viloated because without the freeway, they will have to spend an extra minute or two to get to/from Downtown/Lower East Side and I-43.

Why does everyone have to be in such a damn hurry, anyway? If anything, the street network will improve, as the missing links in the currently disconnected street grid (thanks to the freeway) will finally be linked together to form a cohesive grid. It also means instead three access points to cross streets (right now, the freeway only has access at N. 4th , N. Broadway/Milwaukee, and N. Jefferson Streets--meaning you have to double-back on surface streets to get to anywhere in between), there will be eight access points to cross streets (N. 6th, N. 4th, Old World 3rd Street/MLK Drive, N. Edison, N. Water, N. Broadway, N. Milwaukee, and N. Jefferson Streets--meaning you won't have to double-back as much (depending on the new configuration of one-way/two-way streets)). Yes, there will be some stoplights at the new intersections. And yes, it may increase travel time, but not by much. With the elimination of double-backing, it might even reduce travel time, or remain the same, in some cases. Also, traffic studies show that the Park East traffic can be absorded into the improved street network.

Much of the land beneath the elevated freeway is pretty much useless for anything but surface parking lots--which, as it turns out, is exactly what's there. And not only for the land right under the freeway, but the land immediately adjacent to it as well. Alot of that parking is used by MSOE (on the eastern end) and MATC (on the western end), as well as other Downtown and near-Downtown workers. So removing all those parking lots is going to mean a lot of people are going to lose their spots. Where do they go?

When you can't build out, build up and/or down. The City knows better than to eliminate all those parking spaces and then not make up for them. That's where parking structures come in. The City will likely require some multi-level parking structures, with a streetcape friendly ground level retail use of some sort, to be placed in a few spots throughout the corridor. In addition, any privately developed residential/retail/office/whatever building will have to have some parking incorporated into it (an underground garage, for example). And finally (for parking anyway), there will be lots of on-street parking (yeah, you'll probably have to plug a meter, but that sort of comes with the territory). Parking studies show that the lost parking spaces can be absorbed into on-street spaces (existing and new ones that will be created with the new streets) and garages.

As I mentioned earlier, the removal of the freeway opens up a huge chunk of real estate for development, and it increases the value of low-valued and no-valued land on the tax roll. Nice looking, high quality buildings on the land looks and feels a lot better than an underutilized, unfriendly ribbon of elevated concrete (ever walk under the damn thing?!). What would be better on a prominent piece of land at the bend in the river--a surface parking lot (where the chemical runoff from the cars can drain into the river!), or a mixed-use retail/office/residential tower with underground parking? Removing the freeway will also remove a large visible barrier between Downtown and the Lower East Side, Schlitz Park/MLK Drive, and Hillside neighborhoods.

I think you know where I stand.

Stuff I Forgot to Mention Before

Demolition of the Park East Freeway began in June. partially open to traffic in both east and west directions. The elevated westbound (outgoing) lanes are being demolished first. Temporary crossover, the one-way elevated section of the east segment will become temporarily two-way (one lane for east bound traffic and one lane for west bound traffic), while the one-way elevated west bound segment is being demolished. Once that's demolished, the McKinley/Knapp Street bridge will be built, and then the remaining elevated section will be demolished. The demolition and reconfiguration of the streets is expected to be completed in 2004, opening up the new block for development.

The Park East removal has been the focus of an urban design studio at the University of Wisconsin--Milwaukee School of Architecture and Urban Planning (UWM SARUP) for several years since at least the mid-1990s--I recall seing an early presentation that proposed removing BOTH the Park East and the East-West Freeways and replacing them with boulevards). The studio, which happened to be taught by the City Planning Director in the Department of City Development, actually got the ball rolling for what eventually became a real-life project. Subsequent studio projects scaled back the scope to include removal/replacement of just the Park East. The studio served not only as an education tool for students (such as myself in Spring 2001), but as an experimental tool for DCD, other planning/design firms, and developers to explore the potential of such an idea before it was actually implemented. It also helped "sell" the idea to other city, county, and state politicians and governmental agencies.

Newsletters, maps, and photos of the Park East demolition/redevelopment project can be seen on the DCD's Park East webpage: http://www.mkedcd.org/projects/parkeast/index.html

[djcody]

MY ENVISION-(while i'm at it)
The year 2050: The completion of the state of the art rail system (which connects Madison-Milwaukee-Chicago) throws the city into the forefront of Technological Advances and businesses flock to the Milwaukee/Chicago area. The Population grew within the city to 745,000 and the Metro close to 2 million. With that in mind Downtown now expands to Prospect/Lafayette and Wisconsin/16th street, with 10 new Condos/Apt. buildings ( 3- 18 story; 3- 25 story; 3- 34 story; 1- 40story). And 9 new Office buildings ( 2- 25 story; 3- 36 story; 2- 48 story; 1- 52 story; 1-60 story). Santiago Calatrava designs the 60 story office tower and makes it a world wonder.

[CG5]

Funny...I've played around with a redevelopment plan as optimistic as yours. I have it in a notebook somewhere...I'll post it when I find it.

[Paule]

Boy djcody you are a dreamer lol. I concider myself as an optimistic person and what you envision sure is optimistic but maybe not all that out of reach! 50 years from now who knows what will happen. I say we will all be nuked and wiped off the face of the earth by then, then again maybe not.
I do think Milwaukee within the next 10 years or so will build something to either match or surpass the USBank downtown. I think the next census will show Milwaukee is once again gaining in population. One thing that I've noticed about cities that have for decades declined in pop usually don't gain a whole lot. Yes downtown Milwaukee's pop is going up fast but the outer neighborhoods are not. There's still alot of people in the city that hold to they're dream of owning a house with a big yard and white picket fence away from the hustle and bustle. So with that I predict Milwaukee by 2010 will have once again gone over the 600,000 mark to like 601 or 602,000.

As for that article I posted about the expanding of the river walk. I'm glad to see Milwaukee continueing with something that is working. For a city that is showing signs that the people are unhappy with their leadership or the lack there of, it sure is moving forward! It's funny because for years it seemed Milwaukeans were always content with the amount of leadership and nothing ever happend. Now that they are complaining of the lack of leadership things are getting done. Am I wrong about this?

[Fiddlerontheruf]

My vision--for the next 20 years

1. Somewhere between 2005 and 2010, the high speed rail will be either in the process of being built or completed. This will create and economic triangle between Chicago, Madison and Milwaukee rivaled only by the megalopolis of Boston-Providence-Hartford-New York-Philadelphia-Baltimore-DC and Southern California.
2. The redevlopment of urban areas will continue. It will include all of Walker's Point, most of the near south side within a mile of the lake and 3 miles south of downtown, the Pabst brewery complex, and the (very) near north side, near the former PEF.
3. As a result of the high speed rail, many new, very large high-tech companies will call Milwaukee home.
4. New Skyscrapers will include:
-Two new 500+ footers (Commericial, Hotel)
-Four new 300-500 footers (Hotel, Commericial, 2 residential)
-Five new 100-300 footers (3 residentail, Two business)
5.Milwaukee's metro area will grow at a steady pace reaching 1.7 million by 2005. The metro pop will (relatively) explode after the completion of the high-speed rail. In 2010, the population will reach 1.9 million. By 2020, the metro pop will hover around 2.3 million.
6. Although many areas of the city become prosperous, the city overall will only gain 15,000 by 2010 and 30,000 by 2020. Ghettos continue to be neglected.

[djcody]

Wow, this is pretty cool to hear some of your envisions guys... nice to know that we all have high hopes! :okay: CG5 can't wait to hear yours. One thing i noticed is that we all have high expectations of the light rail system and what it will bring to the city.

[CG5]

Well, I found the notebook. Many of my ideas are just that...ideas. Ideas of what we could do if the demand were there. I am no economist, and therefore would have a difficult time determining the city's economic might or population in the future. However, I would guess that the metro will have broken the 2 million barrier by 2050, with the city either near or past 630,000. The high-speed rail also plays a part in my little "vision." God, I hope they go through with that. :) Well...here goes nothing! (I must point out, as well, that I focused on buildings, not urban conditions, as that is what I know most about...it's really more a list of projects I'd like to do than things that would actually be done.)

+ "Museum Tower" for the intersection of Michigan St. and Lincoln Memorial Drive. Currently parkland, the tower would be ideal for condominiums, hotel rooms, and offices with sweeping views of Lake Michigan. It could be built over North Harbor Ave., and would anchor the southern end of the skyline, one block south of USBank. The tower would have to relatively tall to make the desired difference, hopefully hitting about 725 feet (w/75-foot spire.)

+ Amtrak Station and Post Office demolished for a new Intermodal Transit Center and Grand Post Office. This much-despised architectural duo, dating from the 1960's and high modernism, would not be missed by many, if any. The western half of the lot would be designated as the transit center, connecting the High-speed Midwest Rail line, Amtrak, Greyhound, Milwaukee's Light-Rail System (heh...yeah right ;)), and the water taxis...I shall explain my ideas on water taxis at a later date. The eastern half would be the Grand Post Office, with the Post Office Tower reaching around 300-350 feet. A Fountain Garden would be located behind the Post Office, and would interact with the Menomonee River.

+ Lowering of I-794 to a ground-level boulevard after the Marquette Interchange, reconnecting downtown and the Historic Third Ward. Area along the new boulevard lined with retail, residential, and commercial property.

+ Museum of Science and Technology for the two blocks just south of the Grand Ave. Mall - bordered by Everett, Michigan, N 2nd, Plankinton, and Clyborn streets. Museum crosses over N. 2nd Street, with the Science Museum on the larger eastern block and the Technology wing on the western block. This development could be sparked by the High-Speed Rail project if the Madison-Milawukee-Chicago corridor became a major technological center.

+ That hideous Clark Building demolished, along with the Greyhound building (since Greyhound would relocate at the ITC :)) and the block developed with either one or two new hotel towers. The lot on the SE corner of Wisconsin Ave. & 4th Street also developed as a hotel - the tallest hotel in the city. This would create a hotel zone directly south of the Midwest Express Center, which could hopefully expand to the north.

+ All Summerfest parking lots sunk three levels below ground. Festival City Complex built on top of these large, open lots, complete with a retail center, movie theater, residential and office towers, hotel tower, public forum, and fountain garden.

+ City's tallest residential tower (700 feet) built on the block bordered by Prospect, Kilbourn, State, and Astor Streets. The curved block would likely provide for an interesting tower, and this building would anchor the northern end of the downtown skyline.

+ There are three blocks that would be perfect for new tallest buildings for the city. These are the blocks bordered by Highland/Edison/State/Water (the block west of 100 N Water), 4th/Juneau/Highland/Old World Third (directly northeast of the Brdley Center - next to Park East, which will have been developed by then), and Old World Third/Kilbourn/Plankinton/Wells/2nd (pentagonal block east of the Hyatt, right on the River Walk.)

As for replacements, I'd love to see the J-S tear down that...thing they call home and build a shiny new headquarters. Also, to see Juneau Village Apartments fall and be replaced by something even marginally better would be a dream come true. Finally, I'd love to see a new facade on the Pfister, and perhaps an added crown or something...anything to make that ugly-ass building a litter easier on the eyes.

I have designed buildings for most of these lots myself. I like to take real places and design buildings for them...otherwise things look great but they'd never fit anywhere, since there are no contextual referrences.

So that's my list of dream projects. If I ever get the chance to design ONE of them, far down the line, I'll wet myself. :D

[Markitect]

I just so happen to be designing a multi-modal transportation hub for Downtown Milwaukee on the site of the current Amtrak/Post Office site for school.

[Markitect]

Originally posted by CG5
+ "Museum Tower" for the intersection of Michigan St. and Lincoln Memorial Drive. Currently parkland, the tower would be ideal for condominiums, hotel rooms, and offices with sweeping views of Lake Michigan. It could be built over North Harbor Ave., and would anchor the southern end of the skyline, one block south of USBank. The tower would have to relatively tall to make the desired difference, hopefully hitting about 725 feet (w/75-foot spire.)

Which quadrant of the intersection? The northeast quad, where the gradens of the Art Museum are located; the northwest in/on O'Donnell Park; the southwest quad by the Milwaukee County Transit Center; or the sliver of land on the southeast quad between Michicgan Street, LMD, and Harbor Drive?

+ Amtrak Station and Post Office demolished for a new Intermodal Transit Center and Grand Post Office. This much-despised architectural duo, dating from the 1960's and high modernism, would not be missed by many, if any. The western half of the lot would be designated as the transit center, connecting the High-speed Midwest Rail line, Amtrak, Greyhound, Milwaukee's Light-Rail System (heh...yeah right ;)), and the water taxis...I shall explain my ideas on water taxis at a later date. The eastern half would be the Grand Post Office, with the Post Office Tower reaching around 300-350 feet. A Fountain Garden would be located behind the Post Office, and would interact with the Menomonee River.

It just so happens that this is a project I'm working on in school--to be unveled in May. Water taxis included.

Lowering of I-794 to a ground-level boulevard after the Marquette Interchange, reconnecting downtown and the Historic Third Ward. Area along the new boulevard lined with retail, residential, and commercial property.

I just so happen to be designing a multi-modal transportation hub for Downtown Milwaukee on the site of the current Amtrak/Post Office mess as a project for school.

Tearing down the elevated I-794 and replacing it with an at-grade boulevard was part of a focus of a studio project at UWM-SARUP around 1995 or so. Interesting stuff, as I've seen all the site plans and renderings for the projects. Rampin up from street-level to the height of the Marquette Interchange would be pretty tough--the ramps can't be to steep, thus you'd need a long approach--meaning it'd still probably be elevated between the Marquette and the river (and it would have to rampu up again to reach the height of the Hoan Bridge). In reality, however, I-794 carrys quite a bit more traffic than the Park East, which is why the City/County/State/Fed decided to tear down the Park East instead. And since Lake Parkway opened back in 1999 at the southern end of the Hoan Bridge (as a scaled-back version of the Lake Freeway that was originally planned), the southern leg of I-794 across the bridge became even more traveled (and it was no longer the "Bridge to Nowhere" anymore).

+ Museum of Science and Technology for the two blocks just south of the Grand Ave. Mall - bordered by Everett, Michigan, N 2nd, Plankinton, and Clyborn streets. Museum crosses over N. 2nd Street, with the Science Museum on the larger eastern block and the Technology wing on the western block. This development could be sparked by the High-Speed Rail project if the Madison-Milawukee-Chicago corridor became a major technological center.

You mean you would tear down the beautiful Public Service Building (http://people.msoe.edu/~reyer/mke/1905d.html) for this?!

+ All Summerfest parking lots sunk three levels below ground. Festival City Complex built on top of these large, open lots, complete with a retail center, movie theater, residential and office towers, hotel tower, public forum, and fountain garden.

You know, most of those parking lots down there don't belong to Maier Festival Park, rather they belong to the Italian Community Center--which rents out the lot for things like Summerfest or Third Ward workers to make money for their organization. And the ICC is looking into doing something with those surface lots. They even had some help from UWM SARUP--including myself. (http://www.jsonline.com/news/Metro/apr02/39341.asp)

+ City's tallest residential tower (700 feet) built on the block bordered by Prospect, Kilbourn, State, and Astor Streets. The curved block would likely provide for an interesting tower, and this building would anchor the northern end of the downtown skyline.

Regency Tower doesn't do anything for you?

As for replacements, I'd love to see the J-S tear down that...thing they call home and build a shiny new headquarters. Also, to see Juneau Village Apartments fall and be replaced by something even marginally better would be a dream come true. Finally, I'd love to see a new facade on the Pfister, and perhaps an added crown or something...anything to make that ugly-ass building a litter easier on the eyes.

Good call on the Journal Sentinel Building. Let's fire off some e-mails to Whitney Gould. I believe Juneau Village, while ugly, provides somewhat affordable housing for people--something which Downtown definitely needs more of (though tearing JV down and replacing it would most likely render the new units as un-affordable to regular poeple).

I have designed buildings for most of these lots myself. I like to take real places and design buildings for them...otherwise things look great but they'd never fit anywhere, since there are no contextual referrences.

You've got some sketches? Care to share?

So that's my list of dream projects. If I ever get the chance to design ONE of them, far down the line, I'll wet myself.

You know, I've seen the draft plans/design guidelines the Park East corridor, and there are some major features that have a striking resemblance, and in some cases indentical, to the scheme my classmates and I designed in a studio a couple years ago (before, or just as, the official stuff had/was started). Actually, a couple of the firms working on the project were given a compilation of our work for that semester--looks like we were either thinking the same thing, or they thought some of the ideas were good enough to incorporate.

[Paule]

Markitect I too have seen the plans for the Park East and I must say they are impressive. I know I like what a saw and read about the project. This site should satisfy everyone's search for info on the plans. Here take a gander! Let me know Markitect if this is the same thing you have seen.
http://www.mkedcd.org/downtownplan/catalytic4.pdf

[Paule]

Oh, that's just one page. Here's the whole site.
http://www.mkedcd.org/downtownplan/

[Markitect]

Paule:

Yes, I've seen that imagery of the Park East redevelopment before. It was released back in 1999 as part of the Milwaukee Downtown Plan--a recommendation for the future of Downtown Milwaukee made by a consulting firm from New Jersey. However, those are not representative of what's actually going to be built--the street/configuration and land uses in some places are going to be different. You could consider the stuff you linked to as a springboard for ideas of what the area will become.

The other Park East stuff I've seen is the official documents (composed by the Milwaukee Department of City Development and the design and engineering firms working with the City)--the maps of each specific block, subdivided into lots with alley and utility easements, engineering drawings, and actual guidelines and regulatory items that will be used in the redevelopment. The renderings are also much different than these.

[ThatGuy]

Wow CityGod, for someone who blew up at me for wanting to change some things in Milwaukee, and yelled at me for not liking the city as it is, you sure have a few ideas of your own. I like your ideas, but I don't appreciate the hypocrisy that goes along with it!

[Fiddlerontheruf]

Nice to see you back, that guy.

[MiL-TowN]

Nobody likes any city how it is, thats why they are always changing them!

[CG5]

ThatGuy, you must be kidding. Markitect and I tore you up because all you did was tear Milwaukee down, when you proved (time and agan) that you had no idea what you were talking about. I'm not looking to start another fight, but let's not slant the facts. I love Milwaukee and can appreciate the way things are while still looking forward to change. All you did was talk the city down, all the while telling us you loved it soooo much. Then, when asked to say something nice about the city, you threw a hissy and left the thread.

Don't even TRY to call me a hypocrite. That's laughable. Have a nice day. :)

[CG5]

Heh...in my haste to thwart ThatGuy's attempt to make me look bad, I forgot to answer a few questions about my project list...

Museum Tower - SE quadrant, over N. Harbor Street.

Museum of Science and Technology - Uh...whoops. Guess that was some flawed research right there. No, I would not want to see the Public Service Building torn down.

Tallest Residential - Regency Tower is nice, but not stunning. Besides, Regency would not be torn down. I was referring to the lot directly in front of the Regency Tower. Granted, this would be virtually impossible, as every Tom, Dick, and Harry in the building would bitch endlessly about losing their view of the lake, but you must admit that the oddly shaped block would likely provide for some interesting architecture...

I'd be happy to participate in a mass Gould e-mail. :) The J-S lot is PRIME real estate, and that is one butt-ugly building they have on it. Even if the Juneau Village couldn't be replaced (I see your point, and it makes very good sense) it needs a new facade or something. Those towers are, pardon my French, ugly as FUCK.

And the fact that you're working on an intermodal transit center for the same lot, with water taxis (which I thought was a pretty clever innovation on my part) is downright creepy. But cool at the same time. :D

If I ever get my hands on a digital camera in my house, I'll post some of my sketches. Until then, alas, I think we're out of luck. I would describe them to you if you'd like.

[ThatGuy]

The thing was I said I knew that my idea were not feasable, yet you still tore me down for posting my dreams, and I did not tear down the city, I simply said what I would like to change. There are many things about the city I love. The atmosphere, the Art Museum, the river walk, the MIddwest express center, the destruction of the parkeast, and the construction of the new towers. You just assumed I had nothing nice to say, and you never bothered to ask. You just automatically assumed that I hated everyhting cause I wanted a little change.

I however read the entire post, and realize that you want improvements as I do. I didn't want to post because you constantly were tearing me up without reading my posts, and I mean the entire post. I never wanted to fight, and that is why I left. I love Milwaukee, and being told I couldn't like the city simply because I wanted a few changes didn't sit well with me.

Now I can forgive and forget, cause I do like postig on these boards, but I want you to realize that I love Milwaukee more than any other city, and sure I want some improvements, but I think Milwaukee is great as it is, and that si why I lvoe it, even without the idea I would love to see take place.

So can you forgive me? I didn't mean to offend, but all I said was out of passion for Milwaukee.

[djcody]

CG5- hey i'm in on the mass email!!(jumping up and down) I also thought that J-S building was not right! hehe. It'll be nice to have a sleak modern building there or something! You have some awesome ideas, and they need to be put to good use, lol! Wondering how tall some of those buildings would be?

I THINK ALL OF US NEED TO BE CITY OFFICIALS! WE WOULD SHOW THEM HOW IT'S DONE!!

Paule- That park east site was fucking awesome! I was like a 7yr.old kid in a candy store. One thing it didn't say is how long it was supposed to take to everything done. Anyone have a guess?

Thatguy- Hey bro! Nice to see u again, whazup??

[Markitect]

Originally posted by djcody
Paule- That park east site was fucking awesome! I was like a 7yr.old kid in a candy store. One thing it didn't say is how long it was supposed to take to everything done. Anyone have a guess?


I think all the street construction is scheduled to be done by late 2003/early 2004. Building a new bridge across the river connecting McKinley to Knapp Street will take a while.

As far as developing the corridor, it is impossible to determine a "finished" date, as development relies on natural market forces.

[Paule]

I figured alot of the plans would change or be canceled since 1999 Markitect but at least we can see a beginning to the thought processes going on. I just love the idea of the enhanced intersections and cross walks. The plan to enhance the whole street and sidewalks along Wisconsin Ave I love! I hope they don't drop that out of the finished plan, the tiled street scape would be a real hit with everyone I think! Markitect do you know when or if this is going to be done?

Yeah I know dj, I felt like that too. I still have some pages to read through so I'll have to do that today

Welcome back Thatguy!

[Paule]

Is this not the best East side skyline pic you've ever seen?
WOW!
http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/paule17/44307362egyspv_ph.jpg

This picture sums it all up on what I would like to be doing
right now!
CRUZZZZZIN!!!!!
http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/paule17/44307302ebqudn_ph.jpg

[CG5]

Fine. Forgive and Forget. Fantastic. But quit lying. It's getting annoying. Perhaps you don't remember the argument we had very well, but both myself and Markitect picked your posts apart piece by peice. Why would you say that you read out entire posts, which suggests that we did not. I don't want to rehash, and I don't want to keep this going to the point where I get hate mail again (yes, you have good friends out there...I got hate mail as a result of that particular squabble) but seriously, stop making assumptions about me. Now that is hypocritical.

Now, in an attempt to cut this thing off at the knees, I will do something I've done about FIVE TIMES in the year since I joined the forums - I apologize. Perhaps I was being a bit presumptuous. But hopefully we can, like you said, forgive and forget, and move on. I believe that you love Milwaukee.

There. Moving on...

I'm glad that y'all like my ideas. It would kick ass to be a city official, but I don't think we could do that much. After all, as we all know, there just isn't the demand for some of this stuff. Wait, I take that back (wow...twice in one post...better not make that a habit :D). We could do a lot of good. Perhaps we could work towards generating more interest and civic pride.

Come to think of it, that would be fun.

[ThatGuy]

Well teh only reason I thought you didn't read my entire post was because I would say in them I knew that my ideas were out of the question, and then you and markitecht would still rip them apart when I knew they were pure fantasy. But I guessed I assumed that you didn't read my entire post, and well we all know what happens when people assume!

But I apologize as well, I shoulda stayed calm and tried to explain to you what I was trying to say instead of blowing up at you.

So has anyone heard anything new about Kilbourn Tower, or River Tower?

And does anyone have pics of Cathedral Place or the tower going up East of Firstar?

[MiL-TowN]

LOL, ThatGuy...River Tower isn't really in the picture anymore. I would however, like to know whats going on with Kilbourn Tower?

[CG5]

I searched the J-S Real Estate section this Sunday, and there was nothing new. The last thing on their website has already been posted here.

When I went downtown on Sunday, I could see that Cathedral Place is already 2-3 stories above ground. As for that other one (genaric building, genaric name), the hole is pretty deep...I'd say 3-4 stories down. Both cranes are up, and oh man, they are a sight for sore eyes. Man, I love seeing development downtown...

[Markitect]

Originally posted by Paule
I figured alot of the plans would change or be canceled since 1999 Markitect but at least we can see a beginning to the thought processes going on. I just love the idea of the enhanced intersections and cross walks. The plan to enhance the whole street and sidewalks along Wisconsin Ave I love! I hope they don't drop that out of the finished plan, the tiled street scape would be a real hit with everyone I think! Markitect do you know when or if this is going to be done?


I'm not too crazy about that shot of superimposing that brick paving pattern over the street and the sidewalk. It makes the whole scene look a little too "busy." Doing it in the streets for the crosswalks is fine (like the ones they already have at other intersections).

I don't know if they'll go ahead with such a paving pattern. I do know the Deptartment of City Development has looked into it a bit more, experimenting with different designs, drawings, and models...but don't know if they'll go through with the wholel thing or scale it back to just the crosswalks.

Other streetscaping improvements for Wisconsin Avenue were supposedly going on this summer and will continue once again next year when the weather gets warmer.

Earlier this spring, I was at a streetscaping exhibit set up Donwtown that showed some more detailed plans of what's to come, as far as curb and gutter improvements, sidewalk widening, new lampposts and signage, street furniture, and planters.

[ThatGuy]

Yeah I figured that River Tower wasn't really in the making anymore, but I can't imagine anything better than that on that small lot...unless they get rid of that wearhouse! :D :D :D

And I know what you mean about the cranes being a site for sore eyes. I love going downtown and seeing them rise up like beacons! :D :D :D

And on the Journal Sentiel debate, my dad works there, and they were talking a while ago about destroying the old sentianl building and putting it, and the site of Major Goolsbuys, up for sale because it would be prime real estate for a Hotel. But I am not sure anything will go through, at least not until the site on 4th and Wisconsin is sold. But if it is, we may see the Sentiel building go up for sale. That would be great, casue I don't know about the rest of you, but I love the look of the river surrounded by towers. I think it is either the Kilbourn street bridge or the State street bridge, but one of those has a great view down the river with the towers on either side. I would love to see some more of those sites developed. And the riverwalk looks great! :D :D :D

:drool: :drool: :drool:

[Blingbling]

milwaukee is a teriible city? :? :? :? :?

[Markitect]

Nope. Milwaukee is a great city. That's what we've been talking about here.

However, all cities have their positives and negatives. Milwaukee's no excpetion. There are things that need improvement.

[Blingbling]

prove it, man!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Markitect]

Prove what? Why don't you just take a look through this thread and find out about Milwaukee?

[djcody]

uh oh, we got an intruder (red light flashing), hehehe. just kidding! Here is a question... does anyone else feel like these buildings are taking forever to build?? Maybe i'm too anxious. My birthday is tomorrow!! Yeah!! Come on group hug ( i can just feel the love,lol!!!)

:grouphug:

[Paule]

Happy Birthday dj! Is this the year you can go out and get your drivers license? LOL, hope you have a great day!!!


Markitect I'll admitt that that design they showed of the street brick paving was a little funky but I think if the chose a good design it will be well worth doing.


Word up! The snow flurries are flying up here this morning, your next! Dust off the cob webs on the snowmobile, wax the skis, and sharpin the skate blades, Winter here we come!! WHOOOOHOOOOOOOO!!!!

[MSPtoMKE]

Did it actually snow? I was in Chicago all day, and i left EARLY. It was really crappy weather there, too, until about noon, when it was suddenly nice.

Happy Birthday dj, by the time i am posting this, it is almost your birthday, anyways....

[MiL-TowN]

Oh god, not BlingBling again....


Again, how old are you BlingBling?

[CG5]

Why don't we just completely ignore him? If you give a mouse a cookie, he'll want another. If you give a troll attention...well...you get the picture.

Happy birthday Cody! Now you can legally drink all this Milwaukee brew!! :)

[Paule]

Here's some more pics I've been gathering. The first one you
should all like. It's showing the destruction of the west bound
lanes of the Park East Freeway!
http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/paule17/44307335rgtfkl_ph.jpg

[Paule]

Not done yet, lol, hit the wrong button.
A nice pic of the skyline from the south over the bay.
http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/paule17/44307430mdarec_ph.jpg
Here's a river scene with one of the tour boats.
http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/paule17/49661384whkdjf_ph.jpg
What you'll see up the river past the Park East.
http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/paule17/51141032mpznbg_ph.jpg

[Fiddlerontheruf]

Great pics, Paule!!! Looks like the park east demolition is taking a while! It started in July or something right? It looks as if little progress has been made.

Anyone know whats up with the Kilbourn Tower? (KT f