Since we do not have a dedicated thread to the BRT system, let's post relevant news here from now on?

The South African Communist Party say no to Taxi War Lords
17 February 2009


The SACP Political Bureau condemns the recent waves of taxi-related violence in Cape Town and Nelson Mandela Bay metros. The violence has been directed against fellow taxi operators, bus-drivers, commuters and working class communities at large. Learners have missed classes, workers have lost jobs, commuters have been harassed and bullied. Our communities are thoroughly fed-up with the war-lord elements that seek to dominate the minibus sector.

The ostensible reason for the recent anti-worker violence is opposition to the proposed bus rapid transit (BRT) systems that many of our major cities are in the process of rolling out. In fact, the real reasons for the recent violence are two-fold.

In the first place, taxi warlords fear losing their de facto control over public spaces, over our cities' routes and ranks. Well-regulated and well-resourced integrated public transport systems will now make a democratic recovery of our public spaces possible. This is what some elements in the minibus sector fear.

In the second place, hypocritically, many of the taxi bosses who are stirring up emotions, are actually trying to stake out a greater personal slice for themselves in these forthcoming public transport networks.

Government, the trade union movement, and the ANC-led alliance have all supported the principle of finally introducing affordable, accessible and integrated public transport networks in our major cities. As many Latin American examples prove, the BRT systems, which are often at the heart of these networks, have the great advantage of making possible the integration of minibus operators and drivers. Instead of the hand-to-mouth existence with its violence prone tendencies prevalent in informal public transport, BRT systems offer a much more sustainable business model for former minibus owners. For drivers, upgrading into BRT networks, means proper jobs, with rights and training.

We agree that government's doors must always be open to bona fide stake-holder concerns. We also agree that our major metros have not always effectively consulted with our communities concerning the public transport projects. This now becomes a major priority, if we hope to marginalize the war-lord elements. The SACP commends the SAPS for the work they have done over this past period and for the arrests they have made. We commend the many taxi operators and drivers who have broken ranks with the war-lords - often at considerable danger to themselves. We call on all spheres of government, the trade union movement and our community formations to close ranks. Let us emancipate oppressed workers and small operators in the minibus sectors, let us free our communities from the persistent threat of warlordism!

http://www.reavaya.org.za/press-room/press-room/85-sacp-views-on-taxi-violence-and-the-brt?d4dad6935f632ac35975e3001dc7bbe8=b0204d9f2f0a522a37d2e3a61452c661

Is it not possible to have the name "Rea Vaya" somewhere in the title?

Hi

I saw that the widening of Perth Road started from the University of Johannesburg (University Way). Sections of the University wall was moved last week, and work at the nurses hostel at the Helen Joseph Hospital. The houses next to nurses hostel already seems empty and can soon be demolished. It will be interesting to see what will happen at the corner of Perth Road and Perth Road (this is correct, Only Joburg can have two streets with the same name and a crossing. At this crossing you have a BP on the one side of the road and an electrical substation on the other. Perhaps it will be a relocation of the BP service station like what happened accros the Johannesburg Athletics Stadium. The road will apparently be as wide as University Road from the Campus Square shopping centre.

In Empire Road the bus lanes in the middle is nearing completion between Barry Hertzog and the M1. The widening of Empire between the M1 and Jan Smuts crossing started at the side of the University of Witwatersrand. The next section will be the widening from Jan Smuts avenue towards Hillbrow and the Constitutional Court. The city (Rea Vaya) already purchased part of the ground of Helpmekaar School opposite Parktown Boys High for the widening of Empire.

The widening of Empire and Perth will totally change this route in Johannesburg. Just think about this route, passing the following tourist attractions and interesting areas:
1. Hillbrow
2. Park in Empire
3. Constitution Court and Constitution Hill
4. Graffiti corner at corner of Jan Smuts and Empire
5. Wits University
6. SABC
7. Campus Square shopping center
8. Univerity of Johannesburg
9. Helen Joseph Hospital
10. At corner of Perth and Perth, the start of Sophiatown.

http://www.reavaya.org.za/maps/phase1a.gif
http://www.reavaya.org.za/maps/phase1A_brtcorridors.gif
http://www.reavaya.org.za/maps/feeder-and-complimentary.gif
http://www.reavaya.org.za/maps/phase1_routes.gif
http://www.reavaya.org.za/maps/phase1_icds.gif

Rea Vaya was the subject of discussion on tonight's Asikhulume (SABC 1) with the Jeff Radebe,a transport analyst and a taxi association big wig all giving their 2 cents worth.The taxi people seem to have a very arrogant attitude towards the whole thing,at the core of their demands is that they be not only involved at all BRT levels but also be given full control of the whole project.I'd imagine that some components of the project (e.g. security,control rooms etc.) have to be tendered off and cannot be just rewarded to the taxi industry by default...which would be a disaster.It is very clear that there has been a breakdown in communication between the govt & the taxi association.The show ended of with them threatening not to have violent demonstrations but demonstrate the "infringement of their rights".

I wonder what the taxi guys will do when the system is actually up and running.

Bunch of morons who's greed have caused devastation to families.

You can't please them.

I wonder what the taxi guys will do when the system is actually up and running.

Oh probably smash it all up, burn it to the ground... the usual stuff.

You can't please them.

Off course you can... Just let them do whatever they want, and let them take over the whole country.

Which is pretty sad. When the taxis were introduced in the 80s, that was probably the biggest mistake ever.

I wonder how they'd like it if we turned the tables on them with regards to smashing and burning...hmmm.

I think sometimes us "civilised" South Africans are too... well.... civilised. We would never do something like that. We'd rather stand by and watch them destroy what is ours.

My point exactly. Shocking them into submission might be our key to success.

I think sometimes us "civilised" South Africans are too... well.... civilised. We would never do something like that. We'd rather stand by and watch them destroy what is ours.

I can feel the anger in you Waljie and my blood is boiling. Guess what, the government started talking with taxis to recapitilise from 1999 and 10 years later they still talking to them, what the f*ck is that? FIFA must fine our government a hefty amount if they don't sort thier transport sh!t. We too linient to the bustards who don't even pay tax and even for parking and use violence to sort out problems. Did they bus guys fight them when they used routes that we dedicated to busses in the 80s and 90s?


This is what they supposed to do -

1. Employ more traffic officers to make sure that they do no park in the non-taxi dedicated parkings on the streets.
2. They need to make sure that even f*cken taxi that enters our CBDs can be laser scanned for traffic offences.
3. They must fine them for not cleaning their taxi ranks and surroundings.

The taxi industry is a serious problem. I was chatting to a chap who knows a bunch of taxi drivers the other day. He says that they are angry about the whole thing and will not hesitate to resort to violence to get their own way. The government is going to have to pour some serious resources into dealing with the taxi guys ...

We should monitor them in every way we can - GPS, CCTV you name it. Let them know the Big Brother is watching at all times.

We should just make it illegal to operate mini-bus vehicles in the areas around the BRT and then start confiscating any taxis caught violating the law. See how the taxi owners like it when the drivers come back without their taxis. Then we sell the confiscated taxis to Nigeria or something and make a tidy little profit ...

We should just make it illegal to operate mini-bus vehicles in the areas around the BRT and then start confiscating any taxis caught violating the law. See how the taxi owners like it when the drivers come back without their taxis. Then we sell the confiscated taxis to Nigeria or something and make a tidy little profit ...

"ILLEGAL" doesn't mean anything to them. They will do whatever they want, and if you try to stop them, they will simply use force.

I am afraid the hope and excitement I had for this project is quickly fading away.

We should monitor them in every way we can - GPS, CCTV you name it. Let them know the Big Brother is watching at all times.

We can't secure our border and airports, how will be be able to make sure that passengers will be safe? Watch the international headlines after Confedetions Cup.

We will be complaining with the fact that people are pessimists while we cannot sort our sh!t out. We knew about this from 2004 and 6 years is more than enough to get our ducks in a row. The BRTs should have been introduced in 2008 so that people can familiarise themselves with the system. We should have upgraded our rail system in time, we should have tarred the streets for people of Phokeng, built infrastructure in areas like Eastern Cape and did a whole lot more in those 6 years but as always we leave things to the last minute and blame Europeans.

Somehow I wish that FIFA could have awared this to Morocco as they were not gonna take anysh!t as more people than a mere group of taxi drivers and owners were gonna benefit.

It was claimed that this world cup will leave legacy and I still ownder what legacy this World Cup will leave to the poor people of Phokeng which will be out of work once the stadium and a couple of road upgrades will be completed.

I am afraid the hope and excitement I had for this project is quickly fading away.

I concur with you, its sad that billions will be spend for something that will be burnt just after its starts and life will be shed. I just hope that none of us will be using this as we gonna add to numbers of murders that are taking place on a daily base in this irresponsibly run country.

Well I'm hoping the government will act quickly and forcefully to ensure the system is properly and successfully implemented and the taxi mobsters are crushed and the whole taxi industry is brought under control at the same time ...

^^ it will stay a hope Flood, they won't do anything to them as they licking their *ss for votes.

Guys, iv got the feeling that the City is going to hit the Taxi industry really really hard this year. They not spending millions of rands on the BRT only for the taxi industry to destroy it.

I know some people at PUTCO (a major player in the BRT) and they have been promised by the City that they dont need to worry about the Taxis ruining the BRT or their busses. They were also promised that change is going to happen soon and that they will assure those involved that the taxi industry will have to adapt or else they will be forced to. Taxis contribute no cash value to the city (although indirectly they contribute extensivly) so the City is more inclined to busses and the BRT as money can be made out of them (Fares, Tax, land value etc).

I dont think many Joburgers understand the scale of the BRT as the Gautrain overshadows it. But this is going to be one, if not the biggests projects the city will undertake.

I can only speak for JHB and not the other other cities but i think this is going to work out fine. (i hope i am right:))

^^ I also hope so...

Guys, iv got the feeling that the City is going to hit the Taxi industry really really hard this year. They not spending millions of rands on the BRT only for the taxi industry to destroy it.

I know some people at PUTCO (a major player in the BRT) and they have been promised by the City that they dont need to worry about the Taxis ruining the BRT or their busses. They were also promised that change is going to happen soon and that they will assure those involved that the taxi industry will have to adapt or else they will be forced to. Taxis contribute no cash value to the city (although indirectly they contribute extensivly) so the City is more inclined to busses and the BRT as money can be made out of them (Fares, Tax, land value etc).

I dont think many Joburgers understand the scale of the BRT as the Gautrain overshadows it. But this is going to be one, if not the biggests projects the city will undertake.

I can only speak for JHB and not the other other cities but i think this is going to work out fine. (i hope i am right:))

Nigerians have taken over Hillbrow and messed it up and criminals are killing our people everyday and we are being told that things will be fine. Well I hope they will be but I'm very sceptical. Lots of talk and no action, thanks to the ANC fvckers.

I hope you watched Carte Blanche yesterday Luf, you will then have to belive things when they happen in the new South Africa. Our country's aiport is an opporunity for drug smugglers and terrorists to transfer their stauff around the world. No security at all and so we should belive that we will be safe when riding Rea Vaya busses??? I don't believe that at all.

/wrong thread

Good and consistency must be kept.

As of today all SAA crew members' luggage will be physically searched. Step 1 in fixing that airline.

Don't mean to be an old woman with wet panties, but can we please keep this thread strictly BRT?

Whoops, wrong thread.

Why BRT is not particularly popular with taxi operators

24 February 2009
Nthabi Moreosele: Taxi 2 Com




The late ruler of the KwaNdebele Bantustan Joas Mahlangu once refused a black Mercedes sedan, which was one of the perks of office.

The apartheid government then rewarded mediocre and stupid puppets with great toys if they facilitated the “independence” of their bantustans. I remember that Patrick Mphephu was a ridiculous figure in tails and a homburg when he “opened his parliament”.

Mahlangu was also such a leader, a man of limited intelligence and experience. He refused the Merc and begged for a kombi instead.

His deficient reasoning was that the Merc would not be financially viable. He wanted a kombi, to pick up hitchhikers (dobha dobha) en route to Pretoria whenever he was summoned by his white masters.

I suspect this type of reasoning is also behind the reluctance of the taxi associations to endorse the Bus Rapid Transit that is a darling project of the government.

The BRT will serve obedient customers who will buy legal tickets at designated sites. These tickets can be used for buses and taxis.

This idea does not sit well with taxi operators for several reasons. The symbiotic relationship between taxi owners and their drivers is unique to the industry.

Owners want a certain sum of money each day. They do not want to know what the driver did to reach the target. They look after the major repairs while the driver looks after the minor ones.

The drivers receive a small wage and are expected to augment their salaries through their ingenuity. This means picking up stray passengers. They can also organise a trip that will net them a little bit on the side. Some drivers undertake overnight trips to make extra money.

The money goes towards paying for new tyres, daily car wash, petrol and new brake pads. It also pays for the driver’s dry cleaning, lunch of greasy chicken, small debts and traffic fines.

You see, drivers do live or depend on the dobha dobha to survive. A few months ago in Pretoria, they toyi-toyied when they realised that the ticket system was not flexible and got rid of the opportunity for dobha dobha.

Pretoria has a pilot project whereby passengers buy tickets, just like for a Putco bus. They queue up and the taxi leaves with a full load. There is no dobha dobha. Now the government wants the industry to forgo dobha dobha and instead work off tickets that are linked to buses.

Auntie Emma says this is not surprising because every government has salivated at the possibility of taxing the taxi industry.

She says the tickets and the BRT are a plot to entrap the taxi industry into paying taxes.

Guys I've said this before, and I'll say it before - you cannot ignore the taxi industry, and so far the BRT project has ignored them. I'd also be pretty pissed off if I were a taxi owner, simply because for the past 15-20 years, I have been providing a public transport service with limited government support, and now I am told that I am no longer needed.

But aside from being fair to taxi drivers (since we all hate them anyway), practically speaking you cannot ignore them. They will cause havoc, and will bring Joburg to a halt if they are pissed off. We have seen it before - they are a dangerous group of people but more importantly, they are a powerful group of people.

That said, I'm really not sure how to deal with them. I suppose you can say they will be integrated into the BRT process, but they're unlikely to accept that considering the relative freedom their taxis and the routes they operate on give them.

The most realistic option is, I think, to allow the taxi system to continue. Allow it to run as a competing system to the BRT, which would mean allowing them to run along BRT routes. Why should they accept anything less? I'm not saying they shouldn't improve their standards - on the contrary, what I am saying is that you need to regulate them strictly, but also allow them the benefits they as public transport providers should be entitled to.

I love the quote from that article: "She says the tickets and the BRT are a plot to entrap the taxi industry into paying taxes." As if not paying taxes is a right that the taxi industry has and any attempt to tax them is some devious fascist plot against their basic rights and freedom. What a joke.

@ Joburg: can you imagine the chaos if we let taxis use the BRT lanes? The whole idea of the BRT system is that it runs quickly and efficiently between set stations. Taxis will clog up the lanes, stop where ever they want ... The BRT bus system will be completely stuffed up.

But i agree with you ... i don't know how on earth the government is going to deal with this problem.

^^ Yup i hear you. Even if we don't let them use the BRT lanes, I see them jumping in anyway. If they're quite happy to drive up the wrong side of the road to avoid traffic jams, I don't think they'll waste time in jumping into the BRT lane to avoid the traffic too.

This mess is very much a legacy from our past catching up to us. A proper transport system should have been implemented in the 60s when the SA economy picked up.

It realllly is a mess. :'(

Guys I've said this before, and I'll say it before - you cannot ignore the taxi industry, and so far the BRT project has ignored them. I'd also be pretty pissed off if I were a taxi owner, simply because for the past 15-20 years, I have been providing a public transport service with limited government support, and now I am told that I am no longer needed.


I feel no sympathy for them in the least. Not so much as a wisp. If they want people to continue using their service, they should provide an incentive for people to do that. Why should people pile into overcrowded and dirty taxis when they can catch a bus?

Guys I've said this before, and I'll say it before - you cannot ignore the taxi industry, and so far the BRT project has ignored them. I'd also be pretty pissed off if I were a taxi owner, simply because for the past 15-20 years, I have been providing a public transport service with limited government support, and now I am told that I am no longer needed.

These guys are not being ignored but instead, the taxi association respesentatives like Top 6 and NTA do not relay proper messages to the drivers and other owners. In that 15-20 years that they have existed plenty of people have been killed because of reckless driving and taxi violence. They took over routes that were used by busses and there were no violence against them.



But aside from being fair to taxi drivers (since we all hate them anyway), practically speaking you cannot ignore them. They will cause havoc, and will bring Joburg to a halt if they are pissed off. We have seen it before - they are a dangerous group of people but more importantly, they are a powerful group of people.
We make these people believe that they are on top of the law. Bring the solders and lets see if they will be able to cause havoc.

That said, I'm really not sure how to deal with them. I suppose you can say they will be integrated into the BRT process, but they're unlikely to accept that considering the relative freedom their taxis and the routes they operate on give them.
Well neither rapists nor murders will accept any strict government approach if thier ways are blocked and that means we need to force these pigs to abide by the law.


The most realistic option is, I think, to allow the taxi system to continue. Allow it to run as a competing system to the BRT, which would mean allowing them to run along BRT routes. Why should they accept anything less? I'm not saying they shouldn't improve their standards - on the contrary, what I am saying is that you need to regulate them strictly, but also allow them the benefits they as public transport providers should be entitled to.
This will be the best and they definately gonna loose. First of all they need to develop their own proper taxi ranks because the municipality gets funds from the central and provincial government and because taxis donot want to follow the government's way, they need to provide themselves with resources. The need not to park in non-taxi dedicated parking lots and base. They need not to wash their taxis on our streets. So I think that's what the government need to do and lets see if they won't be left with lots of parked taxis wiht no business.

^^ Yup i hear you. Even if we don't let them use the BRT lanes, I see them jumping in anyway. If they're quite happy to drive up the wrong side of the road to avoid traffic jams, I don't think they'll waste time in jumping into the BRT lane to avoid the traffic too.

This mess is very much a legacy from our past catching up to us. A proper transport system should have been implemented in the 60s when the SA economy picked up.

It realllly is a mess. :'(

Well, the mess started long time ago with the apartheid government but we cannot look back now Tom. As I said we are 4 months away from the confederations cup and we don't have a proper public transport and I forsee danger. Tourists are gonna be killed.

Guys I've said this before, and I'll say it before - you cannot ignore the taxi industry, and so far the BRT project has ignored them. I'd also be pretty pissed off if I were a taxi owner, simply because for the past 15-20 years, I have been providing a public transport service with limited government support, and now I am told that I am no longer needed.

Yes they have had no support, but they also do not know what VAT, company tax and PAYE is. Screw them - they do more damage than good. They are law unto themselves and they serve as a bad example to other drivers. Private drivers think they can break the law because the taxi's do so.

The taxi drivers and owners have had the opportunity to come onboard. They have chosen to not do so and now are up in arms causing havoc. And contrary to popular belief they are not a big industry. There are only 100K taxi's in the country. You cannot have 100K drivers dictating to 15M employed people in the country and 10M car owners.

There is gonna be MAJOR kak in this country, let me tell you! Can you imagine??!! Con Fed Cup... tourists killed, busses torched... BYE BYE World Cup!!

Hilarious!

I do not think it is wise for the govt to heed to an industry which behaves like the mafia, even if their ability to bring the country to a standstill is apparent.

however, the solution is definitely to let the BRT and taxi's co-exist. People will decide for themselves which is safer/cheaper and more effective. The taxi industry relies on the fact that people have no other choice but to choose the devil they know. If you give options, we might even succeed in getting the taxi industry to reform by itself?

If they think that burning buses etc. is going to make people want to use taxis, they're very highly mistaken.

I do not think it is wise for the govt to heed to an industry which behaves like the mafia, even if their ability to bring the country to a standstill is apparent.

however, the solution is definitely to let the BRT and taxi's co-exist. People will decide for themselves which is safer/cheaper and more effective. The taxi industry relies on the fact that people have no other choice but to choose the devil they know. If you give options, we might even succeed in getting the taxi industry to reform by itself?

Just last year they blocked the roads and protested against Metro Bus operating in Soweto, so I don't think that parallel operation with busses will satisfy them as people will onviously opt for busses.

All the need to do is to be part of the BRT and their problems will be sorted.

@lydon and Pule - in some countries this is called terrorism. they fight "wars" against this. Is there anything wrong with a heavy hand against this threat? Country's cannot be held to ransom by thugs.

Most definitely not. They need to learn that operating is a privilege, not a right and act accordingly.

govt are a bunch off fat cat pussies wiff no backbone - damn them to hell, to hell i tellz u.

government has succesfully closed down taxi ranks when there has been incidents of violence. they can be put to order, the governmetn just needs to reinforce the law

wow the positivity that was once a reason to visit this thread has disappeared. Guys, it pays to be rational (we cannot sit here and sing kumbaja all day). SO my argument is that we are facing problems in the country. Make a difference where you can.

But sitting here, bemoaning the possible loss of the world cup and painting pictures of heaps of dead and mutilated tourists will not really pay off, now will it? I think we are all helping each other to wallow in shit. I am not saying we should not point out negative aspects... there are many examples. But I trust that we are a bit more proactive than this? Otherwise I will have no choice but to visit the Mail and Guardian forum more often (at least there I expect the gnashing of teeth and heralding of the end of the world).

^^ WC will go ahead. SA will be OK. but we will never run at full capacity while the poor have the majority vote. ANC fuks everthing up that they touch - screw yo clean water, paved road, equiped hospitals, functioning schools and yo white knowhow - we hate that shiat y'all. we BEE'in this place back to the rural lands.

ok, rant over.

In the Rustenburg area, the municipal busses and the taxis do co-exist. Although there are no dedicated lanes to the busses. Their ranks are in fact next to each other, they service the very same areas.

With a bus> comfort, scheduled times, lower fare, but a lot more intermediate stops

With a taxi> comfort is subjective, irregular service, but it is there, higher fares than busses, but a lot faster with much fewer stops.

It's really a matter of personal choice, with the more older folks going for busses and the younger ones heading to taxis.

Currently the Metrobuses are there with the taxis. I don't see how BRT should suddenly be a threat.

But overall I believe the taxi bosses know that they are uncompetitive and their market could shrink over the longer term. A lot of the younger people are buying cars, moving into towns to be closer to work, and you see a lot more hitchhikers these days. On the long distance routes the bus companies are doing very well, as are the low cost carriers. Given that, I can see why the taxi bosses will try to protect their turf.

Exactly, we have to be proactive about this. Choosing to fight a war against 100k men with hectic anger management issues isn't the way to go. I agree we need to get them into line, but doing away with the industry isn't going to serve anyone's interests - if anything because taxis will continue to operate where the BRT doesn't.

They have to be allowed to coexist. Government should approach taxi associations and tell them that they may operate on BRT routes so long as they adhere to certain standards. If they don't, then the taxi associations are fined. In this way, taxi associations will hopefully start to exercise tighter control on the maintenance and operation of their taxis. And also, as African Biohazard says, it may coax the taxi industry in general into reforming itself. It's really the taxi bosses we should be targeting. Start at the top, and then (hopefully) things below will change.

They are an angry group of people. The fact is government hasn't been able to control them in the past; I don't think government will be able to control them in the foreseeable future. And so the next best option is to proactive engage them to keep the peace and quiet. I hate them as much as everyone else, but we cannot afford burning buses during the World Cup or Confed Cup, and the only way to avoid this is to make them feel appreciated (even though this killlls me) and craft them in a manner where they ARE helpful to society.

wow the positivity that was once a reason to visit this thread has disappeared. Guys, it pays to be rational (we cannot sit here and sing kumbaja all day). SO my argument is that we are facing problems in the country. Make a difference where you can.

But sitting here, bemoaning the possible loss of the world cup and painting pictures of heaps of dead and mutilated tourists will not really pay off, now will it? I think we are all helping each other to wallow in shit. I am not saying we should not point out negative aspects... there are many examples. But I trust that we are a bit more proactive than this? Otherwise I will have no choice but to visit the Mail and Guardian forum more often (at least there I expect the gnashing of teeth and heralding of the end of the world).

Jakes, I agree with you! This thread actually leaves a really crap aftertaste! Of course we cannot ignore the negative aspects - we would be really foolish and ignortant to march on and just ignore the bad and worrying issues. But, complaining doesn't help either! Let's rather be proactive, what can we do? I don't want to be over-eager, and we can't solve this country's issues, but I mean, if we put our heads together, there must be something?

hey guys

would like to write about the progress of Rea Vaya at my blog.
Which images should I include, what should I include in the entry etc.

All suggestions welcome

Can we please move all taxi rants to this thread because they have spoilt our roads and now their spoiling our threads...

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=32860054#post32860054

come on guys.... PROACTIVE, not just ranting, anyone can simply moan

Is there any pictures of the other stations under-contruction not just the Jobert Park one?

I hope the Johannesburg BRT will copy the idea that they have in Cape Town to have recycling bins at the stations.

Hey guys. This is a really interesting blog post about how the BRT could work. It's based in New York, but would also be applicable here

http://www.streetsblog.org/2009/02/27/brt-and-new-york-city-part-4-getting-it-right/

Been to Soweto this morning, the BRT is shaping well in Oldpotch road towards Chiawelo. This road has changed its name to Chris Hani road. Already in effect.

GUYS! have a look: http://www.reavaya.org.za/images/stories/2009pdfs/sandton_chronicle.pdf?d4dad6935f632ac35975e3001dc7bbe8=ef576facf0d0fe1d8cc4a6a7f3f32783

^^ long address i know but i really like these busses

Not bad - looking forward to this paradigm shift! anyone know what the new deadlines are? Will these realy be up and running by the Confed Cup?

Guys, You can vote for station names here: http://www.reavaya.org.za/vote?d4dad6935f632ac35975e3001dc7bbe8=371c48080753a14c0b4e5b6f9eb98dda Its really cool that they allow the public to decide i just hope they will listen and not just pretend that the public has a say - Any way its cool to see that we do have names like "Mandela Station", "Zuma Station" "Malema Station" etc.. go vote!

That's a really cool idea!

EDIT: The website has had a refreshing overhall.. No more buggy graphics floating around. (nevermind, they still there)

Check some of these links out:

http://www.reavaya.org.za/buses-and-stations

http://www.reavaya.org.za/about-brt

Just voted under each and every station.Please don't let the station in Joubert be called the "JAG Station"!Who came up with these suggestions anyways?!"Education Station".eish.

I think its pretty awesome we get an opportunity to vote on this, but, while history is NB, the system also needs to usable. So it make way more sense to have names geographically/location based rather than "historically" based when there's no relevant context.

Commissioner/Market and Ntemi Piliso

Can't vote for "Indian Quarter" :(

Yeah agree - we should all vote for the best geographical name.

The website its looking good. Go vote guys!

I think the name options were reasonable. Sure there are some stupid ones but mostly nice: geographically / land mark based and relevant without being political. Good stuff!

Thankfully the voters seem to be picking the nicer names.

Hi...

I think that is a excellent idea implement a BRT system in Johannesburg. It's a good step for the organization of public transport and the subsequent extension of Johanesburg's Metro.

This system will change the face of Johannesburg, in addition to improving urban mobility is a very useful alternative for travel from one place to another, and help greatly to restore urban areas for the benefit of the city.

Basically it is a Metro with buses! Has greater flexibility in the routes.

Some questions:

1) How goes the works?
2) What models of buses Rea Vaya will use?
3) How far is estimated the cost of the ticket?
4) How many kilometers will be built in the first phase?
5) Is there a central station?
6) Is well integrated with future systems (subway, tram, taxis, public buses, etc.)?
7) Is expected using a single ticket for all systems?
8) Are there more BRT's under construction in South Africa?

Thanks for your answers guys :)

Hey Aireos, i think the best thing for you to do is take a look at their website WWW.REAVAYA.CO.ZA - a very easy website to go through with a nice amount of info.

I for one cannot wait for the BRT to come into operation.

Taking on the taxis

Article By: Lindiwe Mlandu
Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:55

Fifteen-year-old Nangamso Ngcongothela will never be able to see with her right eye again as a result of the recent taxi strike in Cape Town. She was shot through her eye while crossing Kuwait taxi rank in Khayelitsha. She was on her way home after her school was released early due to the violent taxi strike.

Collateral damage in the ongoing taxi war, this innocent schoolgirl was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, caught in the crossfire of a confrontation between taxi drivers and police.

Taxi operators across South Africa are up in arms against the soon-to-be-adopted Bus Rapid Transit. The taxi industry feels that the BRT system, which is expected to be an integrated system to accommodate visitors to the 2010 World Cup and beyond, will threaten their livelihood.

The BRT is aimed at upgrading South Africa's public transport. It will feature dedicated and segregated bus-only lanes and safe, weather-protected bus stations equipped to deal with disabled passengers.

It also has the added advantage of being easier and faster to build than a light rail transport system.

In the first phase the BRT buses will be running to 150 stations positioned half-a-kilometre from each other. The buses will run every three minutes during peak time, and every 10 minutes during off-peak time, running 18 hours a day from 5am to midnight everyday.

The City's position

Many developing countries have adopted BRT and it has proved to be successful. Robert McDonald spokesperson for Cape Town Mayor Helen Zille said: "We consulted the main taxi organisation right from the beginning, and even took their leadership to South America to see the proposed system in action. They were very positive about it."

McDonald went on to blame the National Taxi Association, which developed as a splinter group from the main South African Taxi Council body, claiming that they have been "more and more militant and unwilling to engage".

McDonald did not rule out the possibility of another strike, but he said that the mayor had met with the premier as well as heads of other security organisations in the province to prepare a joint strategy in response to any violence or intimidation.

'We will burn those buses'

The National Taxi Association (NTA) mostly represents illegal taxi operators who do not hold valid operating licences. In Cape Town, Johannesburg and Port Elizabeth, this group has called for the IRT (Integrated Rapid Transit) system to be stopped, because they claim that it will cost them their jobs.

According to McDonald, the City of Cape Town has repeatedly made it clear to them that this is not so and that the City needs taxi operators and drivers to be part of the IRT system to make it work.

Some of the NTA members believe that the IRT will be like the failed Taxi Recapitalisation Programme. But it is not — it does not require them to put any money in and it will increase the number of people using the public transport and so create jobs and more income for them.

A taxi owner belonging to NTA has denied that they were taken to South America. "That's a lie, the government took ANC members to Brazil and they liked the BRT not us. We are the only black-owned business in this country and why is the government trying to put us out of business? We have kids that are in universities, how are we supposed to support them if we travel for shorter distances?"

He went on to say that they made it clear to the government from day one that they did not endorse the bus system. When asked about the way forward he said: "Jeff Radebe (transport minister) told us that they are going ahead with the BRT, so we have no choice but to disrupt the World Cup. We will burn those buses."

The taxi owner believes that they are fighting for their rights the "only way we know how". When asked what he meant, he said: "We will unleash violence in all the major cities. We will travel to all the cities and hell will break loose until the government gives in."

He said that they refuse to be bullied around just because they "are uneducated and do not pay taxes. If the government want us to pay taxes he must fund us and then we can pay taxes," he said.

The taxi owner said that they walked out of the recent negotiations with Mayor Helen Zille because she is "big-headed" and they cannot continue negotiations with her. He also accused the mayor of investing in the BRT.

Eish.... I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried!

Them being uneducated is the key to the above article. Bunch of fools making themselves looking like greater fools. Shoot to kill I say.

The progress of the Road works next to the University of Johannesburg (RAU) as well as Helen Joseph now very visible. It is amazing how much earth has been removed from this site. Does anybody know what is happening to the earth removed?

these are the types of issues that the government should have dealt with years ago :ohno: now that its crunch time i can tell you guys that it might start a panic.

someone told me that there's undercover activities undertaken by the NIA in terms of violence involving taxis, its either we know too little or government is not doing its part.

^^ do dot underestimate those rumours but the problem is that the NIA cannot stop everything. They also got loopholes in their system.

Guys, i think it will take one bus/station being burnt for the city to take out the taxi industry big time. They have not invested millions into the BRT for some fools to burn it to the ground or disrupt it. It could be a good thing in a way if they start disrupting the BRT as this will get the city mightly pissed - the taxi industrys day has/is finally come!

Recapitalising taxis only to destroy the industry after just 3 years! The department of transport messed up big time. And with the uneducated narrow minded taxi fools, it wont do any peace.

Flip they are so narrow minded! it amazes me! look, like Luf said, I cant imagine that the government is going to just let millions of rands burn to the ground - but there is a major major task at hand... Let's just hope we know too little, as opposed to the government not doing its part!

Same thing happened in Colombia, and will happen here. Will get really bad probably the week before and during the busses actually start running... brace yourselves... and then when everything calms down (as it will, just like changing airport name or whatever), people will adjust (including taxis), and we will enjoy decent public transport for the first time! Thank goodness!!!

Btw, anyone else see todays Rosebank Gazette (the local paper)... front page is about residents getting loud at the public participation meeting in opposition. Who is it this time? None other than larneys from Melrose etc who are upset because construction will slow traffic and send more people through their neighbourhoods, which is already a problem as some taxis do that. Can they not see that this will mean fewer taxis on that route in the long run?? So, its not only the taxis voicing opposition.....

I was waiting for the larneys to have their say...

I have only one thing to say.....these BRT SYSTEMS must be running way ahead of 2010 in order for the taxi/BRT conflict to settle. Thugs should not be allowed to dictate to govt about the BRT system in the same way that China should not dictate govt about the Dalai Lama.

The taxi/BRT conflict is a real worry for me ahead of 2010.....its so sad if govt gives in to thugs, it wont be the first time though. :ohno:

i agree about the dalai lama point..shees what has he ever done to anyone. Massive fail by our government right there!

Seen in the news yesterday the render for the BRT station in Orlando or Diepkloof has construction started there? Anybody knows?

Don't know about the stations on the Soweto side but i drove past Ellis Park the other day and there were 3 or 4 stations all in advanced stages of construction.

From the Engineering News:http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/challenging-day-for-brt-system-joburg-says-has-plan-b-ready-2009-03-24

A plan B? Hmmm ... i wonder what that means?

Challenging day for BRT system, Joburg says has Plan B ready

By: Irma Venter
24th March 2009

"Today is perhaps the most challenging day since the Rea Vaya project has been launched," said City of Johannesburg member of the mayoral committee for transport, Rehana Moosajee, speaking at the Intelligent Transport Society South Africa's e-Transport conference, held in Sandton.

Angry taxi drivers took to the streets in Johannesburg on Tuesday, in protest against the city's planned Rea Vaya bus rapid transport (BRT) system, similar to what Cape Town taxi drivers had done in recent weeks.

The BRT system will transport commuters in buses using dedicated lanes, with purpose-built stations, situated roughly every 750 m along the main routes.

Taxi drivers and owners had earlier voiced their fears that Rea Vaya would threaten their livelihood, while the city had noted that it wanted to draw the taxi industry into the BRT system - also operational in countries such as China and Australia - as operators.

Moosajee was at pains to say that Tuesday's demonstrations were not arranged by the elected leaders of the minibus industry, adding that industry representatives were "still in firm negotiations with the city on Rea Vaya".

She blamed a rogue element for the city-wide demonstrations, marred with violence.

"The taxi industry has signed a memorandum of understanding with the city. We don't have an agreement yet. We're now at the point where we are presenting a formal framework for negotiations," Moosajee told Engineering News Online.

She noted that some of the leaders of Tuesday's protests had even formed part of the BRT-taxi industry technical committee.

Moosajee said some 575 taxis would be affected by the implementation of Rea Vaya.

"Part of the negotiations would be to determine how these drivers and owners would be affected. For example, do we as a city buy their taxis, and do they then become part of the operating company, or do we ensure they redeploy their taxis elsewhere?"

Taxis would not be allowed to use the dedicated BRT lanes, and would not be able to have the same origin and destination as a BRT bus, added Moosajee.

"A large number of people in the taxi industry are seriously interested in the BRT system. We remain committed to talk to them, and to make mediation available between the two taxi groupings - but yes, the city is working through a Plan B," she warned.

"At the roll-out of the project, we knew that the most challenging part would be our ability to convince the minibus taxi industry to embrace this scale of change. But, we simply can not let 2010 come and go and we see no changes to the city's infrastructure."

Moosajee said phase 1A of the BRT system would still be ready for the Confederations Cup, which would serve as this year's curtain-raiser to the 2010 FIFA World Cup.

The 25,5-km route, featuring 20 stations, was due for completion in June. The prototype bus, from Swedish manufacturer Scania, had already arrived in the country.

"The infrastructure roll-out is progressing well," said Moosajee.

In a statement issued on Tuesday afternoon, Transport Minister Jeff Radebe "strongly condemned" the protest against Johannesburg's BRT system by the taxi industry.

However, he maintained that the taxi industry remained the nucleus of the planned system.

Edited by: Creamer Media Reporter

I know the quality of this pics really suck (Shot with my 5110 Nokia while in the car). The BRT road construction in Soweto (From BARA to Chiawelo)
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr270/rulani/IMAGE_270.jpg
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr270/rulani/IMAGE_271.jpg
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr270/rulani/IMAGE_273.jpg

thanx for the pix...i would hate to be driving on that road everyday. gosh i wonder if parts of SA will still be recognisable when i get back around august

Get a GPS then you will know that you taking the correct route. When last where you home?

Being away for a month is enough to give you a suprise. Things are really changing here. Roads and road side makeovers.

Thinking of taking a taxi to town today if I manage to get off school early enough and take pics of BRT stations progress.What stations except for Joubert Park are nearing completion?

^^ Hillbrow stations

One in westgate has just begun

good to hear the stations are being built. Will the link along Empire road have stations and will they be ready by June? The maps i have seen of stations dont include that area so i wonder if thats for 2010

^^ it forms part of phase 1A and the stations will be ready by June.

Very nice article can be found here:

http://www.reavaya.org.za/images/stories/2009pdfs/star_april2.pdf

In today's "The Star"
http://www.bigwebsites.co.za/images/ReaVaya%20part%202.pdf

Whoa interesting plans.

Very interesting indeed.

Though they've really starved off Commisioner street by the looks of it.

Very nice article can be found here:

http://www.reavaya.org.za/images/stories/2009pdfs/star_april2.pdf

The bus in this picture has the doors on the wrong side!!!!!!!.... Presuming it is a feeder bus as the doors are so low? They shouldn't put it in a picture next to a station like that as it will cause so much confusion.. :ohno:

The bus in this picture has the doors on the wrong side!!!!!!!.... Presuming it is a feeder bus as the doors are so low? They shouldn't put it in a picture next to a station like that as it will cause so much confusion.. :ohno:

If the busses will work like in South America (Bogota and Curitiba), the feeder busses will have doors on both sides, high doors for the stations and low doors for standard bus stops.

Yea, the articulated ones have only high-doors on the right so they can only stop at BRT stations.

The recommended tariffs

Trunk only: R5.00
Complementary (non-CBD) only: R5.00
Complementary CBD circular route: R3.00
Feeder route only: R3.00
Combination on services (transfer ticket): R8.00


From Rea Vaya website.

theres obviously like an oyster card system right?

theres obviously like an oyster card system right?

Correct. Contactless card which gets loaded with money.

eish.. I dont like that so much.

I think (for ease of use). It should be a flat rate of say R3-R5 no matter where you go. Also there should be day/week/month passes that allow you unlimited trips anywhere for that time period.

Always thought these 'zones' are confusing and dont work to well. My opinion.

What is a transfer ticket?Are there are plans to make the cards compatible with say the Gautrain?

^^ Are you taking the piss? Come now really... go read a bit and educate yourself on these things.

^^ Are you taking the piss? Come now really... go read a bit and educate yourself on these things.

whats up mate? what you talking about?

^^ What I mean, is that it has been written quite a few times already that the plan is to have a single card system for Gautrain, BRT and taxis.

Yeah but i seriously doubt that it will happen in the near future - to retro-fit all the taxis will take at least a year 0r two plus making a system where they can claim back money etc..

^^ For sure, but I am sure that they will make the BRT and Gautrain systems fully compatible from the start...

Yeah BRT and Gautrain i am sure will work together from the very start but the Taxis, well we all know how it is:)

Yeah BRT and Gautrain i am sure will work together from the very start but the Taxis, well we all know how it is:)

Ya, its gonna take some time not to talk about chaos to implement this in the taxi industry.

If you don't want to answer the question then fine,don't.

ANC president Jacob Zuma on Monday backed a proposal to put the implementation of the bus rapid transport (BRT) system on hold pending further consultations.

"I am supporting what was proposed, that we hold horses for now and then we come back," he told the SA National Taxi Council (Santaco) BRT summit at Gallagher Estate in Midrand.

Zuma explained how the country was in the process of an election and that the new government should be given time to form and then revisit the issues raised by the taxi industry over implementation of the plan.

"I am proposing that we hold horses for now and we come back... if that's agreed then lets get back to business," he said.

Earlier, Santaco president Andrew Mthembu called on government to halt the implementation of the BRT system completely.

Zuma said the taxi industry should look at ways of participating in government's transport plans, instead of sitting on the sidelines.

"... how do you participate in that process because you could be taxi owners, bus owners, train owners... your leadership should be discussing how do you come in," he said.

"So instead of tension you should have discussions on how to make it better... come with ideas on how do we integrate taxis and bus services jointly with the government."

However, Zuma said he had not looked at a memorandum handed to the ANC by the industry over their grievances against the BRT on 24 March.

He also chastised the industry for the threats they had issued if the BRT system proceeded.

"If you don't want government to force things onto you.... I don't think you want government to feel they are doing things with a gun to their head from taxi anger," he said.

He emphasised the need for communication and discussion.

After his address, Santaco first deputy president Tutu Molefe, said Zuma had "quelled the anger" of the industry.

Zuma spoke in English and Zulu and was received warmly by the packed auditorium of Santaco members.

He urged them to vote in Wednesday's poll to ensure an ANC majority, which in turn, would enable it to "make decisions" in government.

Sapa

Electioneering rubbish. If the BRT doesn't go ahead, World Cup = fail. Simple.

Not supprising from Zuma. the taxi guys are his brothers. So his support is more of a brotherly loyality than his assesed judgement. A lot of work has been done, and a lot of money has been spent. to halt the whole project now would be very stupid. for anyone to come with such a proporsal not to speak of a decision is stupidity at its best.

what an idiot.

ahhhh Zuma Zuma Zuma, no one really cares nor believes anything you say in the run up to the elections.

Zuma is just telling the taxi industry what they want to hear.
The whole lead up to this election has been him telling everyone and sundry what they want to hear most - e.g. the Afrikaners that they are true South Africans - and it is no different this time.
The question is can he actually put a stop to the process now that is so far down the track - I do not think so. The ANC-lead Gauteng provincial government and Johannesburg municipal government started this process to get a viable, cheap and effective public transport system in place - personally I think they hate the taxi industry I want it to go.

Still - can he stop it?

ahhhh Zuma Zuma Zuma, no one really cares nor believes anything you say in the run up to the elections.

Ya tell that to the millions that are going to vote ANC.

Yeah BRT and Gautrain i am sure will work together from the very start but the Taxis, well we all know how it is:)

Do you guys think BRT and Gautrain are going to be used by the same people? You surely know better, but, I don't know, it doesn't look like it to me.

^^ good question. I think to a large extent it will be used by some of the same people.

Either way, its good to have an integrated transport system - makes life just so much easier.

The BRT has more mass appeal and will definitely rival the taxi service for moving te masses around. Gautrain is more upmarket.

I agree with Luf - Zuma is electioneering. The usual shananigans. If the "new" ANC had issues, its hard to understand why they would worry now. Besides, the BRT is basically done. It seems Zuma wants some leverage to say "don't blame me" when the Taxis and the Jo'burg/CT councils come head-to-head soon.

Zuma is just telling the taxi industry what they want to hear.
The whole lead up to this election has been him telling everyone and sundry what they want to hear most - e.g. the Afrikaners that they are true South Africans - and it is no different this time.
The question is can he actually put a stop to the process now that is so far down the track - I do not think so. The ANC-lead Gauteng provincial government and Johannesburg municipal government started this process to get a viable, cheap and effective public transport system in place - personally I think they hate the taxi industry I want it to go.

Still - can he stop it?

He can do whatever he wants.

The BRT has more mass appeal and will definitely rival the taxi service for moving te masses around. Gautrain is more upmarket.

I agree with Luf - Zuma is electioneering. The usual shananigans. If the "new" ANC had issues, its hard to understand why they would worry now. Besides, the BRT is basically done. It seems Zuma wants some leverage to say "don't blame me" when the Taxis and the Jo'burg/CT councils come head-to-head soon.

100%, indeed Zuma is just washing his hands on conflicts to come.

Guys, the SABC reported yesterday that construction of the BRT will still continue but other processes will stop, I'm not sure if those include acquring the fleet. I think Zuma will pull it off with the Taxi industry, I think he's been strategical in the sense that he doesn't want the construction to stop and having to mention trains will further excite those guys. I think he was also trying to ease them to not vandalised what have been developed so far like Rea Vaya Stations in Jozi.We might not like him but at least he can talk to people unlike the autocrat that used to be the president of the country.

I belive that BRT will be running come Confederations Cup.

Those with detailed info please advice our brother here, http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=752738&page=2

oh I see you guys picked up on it, but ya lets hope its just one of those false election fibs i.e free houses for all, etc... and never really materialises

Those with detailed info please advice our brother here, http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=752738&page=2

for our sake i hope you're right pule.

20 bills is one hell of a figure. hard for me to believe.

Constructers are hard at work today and more stations are rising. No halt to construction.

Check out this facebook group:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=94969532096&ref=ts

whyyyyyy the orange?! they should have gone with the gold and blue of the Gautrain

Gold busses crawling over the city?I'm not sure about the validity of this orange business but I dislike it.Using the intitial Londontown-centric red seemed like the perfect plan to me.

i have nothing against orange, but yes, we are still a bit sensitive about white, blue and orange as combination. somewhat daft.

so i guess phase one won't be finished by end of may?

Check out this facebook group:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=94969532096&ref=ts

whyyyyyy the orange?! they should have gone with the gold and blue of the Gautrain

ah come on.. this is abit of a stretch - people will find anything to complain about.
But i agree, gold and blue would of been cool - keep everythink the same, MetroBus, BRT, Gautrain (and Taxis??)

Im not sure the colors were intended for the old SA flag colors. Its a coincidence. colors are just colors, the old flag does not exist anymore. i did not even think it the first time i saw those colors.

At first i did not think anything of it, but when i compared it to the old flag, then i saw the issue. I dont think this was intentional, but they should consider changing it.

I really think people are being a little over-sensitive comparing it to the old SA flag, but it would definitely look better with red in place of the orange.

Not bad - looking forward to this paradigm shift! anyone know what the new deadlines are? Will these realy be up and running by the Confed Cup?

if you are referring to the one starting on the 4th of June 2009, i don't see how on earth that will happen. I am always amazed at the planners who think they can just magically get things done in a month. They must get real. :ohno:

......my GOD.....sometimes i wonder what its like to go thru life filled with so much negativity, anger, hate and vile?????......just wondering tooo loud!!!!

Wonder why they changed it to orange, it doesn't really match the red stations - either way, they're just colours.

yes one could make the argument that they are just colours, but I do think that the Rea Vaya is a good opportunity to redefine how Joburg markets itself to the world. Colours are an important way of doing that, and given the way that this system could transform the entire city, I think you have to think carefully about how brand it.

Using orange certainly echoes apartheid nationalism. But besides that (and maybe the symbolism of orange has fallen by the wayside a little bit), it's just not a great colour. Red and blue looked fine to me, and matched the stations, but I would have liked something that represents the vitality and energy of Joburg, as esoteric as that sounds. And so, again, I would have gone with gold and blue to match the Gautrain.

That said - I don't think the ordinary man on the street would care too much about the colour of the buses. But I think it's important to debate the design of our buses and stations (and for Rea Vaya to justify its design decisions) in order to turn Joburg into a design-conscious city.

^^ apparently red picks up dust more than orange I wouldnt really know but I was told that.

Red looks better. gets rid of the old SA flag issue.
there are so many colours to choose from, look at our current nation flag

i think some golden tones would be nice. red and jozi just don't mix but that's just me.

With Zuma's general everchanging modus operandi,I cannot for the life of me predict the outcome of his May 9th meeting with the taxi tyrants.

he did rebuke them for creating such havoc in jozi, so at least not just trying to score brown points.

From Pule with Love:

http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr270/rulani/P1170080.jpg
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr270/rulani/P1170091.jpg
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr270/rulani/P1170082.jpg
http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr270/rulani/P1170077.jpg

nice. random question, how many floors is that vodacom building? always see it on tv when they talk about jhb

nice. random question, how many floors is that vodacom building? always see it on tv when they talk about jhb

54 floors and 173 meters for the Ponte Towers (source: Wikipedia)
Photo below of inside of building - all apartments.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/82/PonteCore.jpg/800px-PonteCore.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/44/Hillbrow_Tower.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/PonteTower.jpg

A BRT station is situated between Ponte and the Campus of the University of Johannesburg across the road from Ponte.

o ok...cool. haha sorry, but always see that building on tv and in pictures, in fact anything to do with JHB

54 floors and 173 meters for the Ponte Towers (source: Wikipedia)
Photo below of inside of building - all apartments.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/82/PonteCore.jpg/800px-PonteCore.jpg


IS this how the building looks like now, or is this a planned/under construction renovation?
this is the only picture I could find of it in 2004
http://images.travelpod.com/users/liw13/sa_2004.1079740440.dsc00341.jpg

The one above is a render. The 2004 photo probably still resembles the building now. Interestingly, Danny Boyle is filming a movie about these buildings.

I find it so odd that you dont even know the name of the building andrew!Thanks for the pics Pule... and rulani in association.

How many stations built so far?

what? I just know it has the Vodacom building. And so what if i dont know the name of it? Im not in JHB.

Im also a bit surprised you don't know the name. It's Joburg's Table Mountain - to me anyway.

I guess you're too young to have heard of Ponte.

Its not like ive never seen or heard about it before....Thats why i asked about the building. Yes I understand its an icon for JHB, but trust me, most people no little about the building, they have just seen it on tv etc.

There is quite a difference between that building and TM-clearly and i would not expect people to know the vodacom building as they know TM

Before I moved to Joburg, I only knew it as the Vodacom building...
I'm not sure if its really common knowledge that it's called Ponte City.

Before I moved to Joburg, I only knew it as the Vodacom building...
I'm not sure if its really common knowledge that it's called Ponte City.
Exactly!
Im never in JHB, all i see on tv is a huge building with vodacom on the top. so how must i know what it's called besides the vodacom building?

Anyway, the bus stations are looking good

As far as I was concerned, it was. Did none of you ever hear of the suicides from the top floors? The rubbish dump in the core? The proposal of turning the building into a jail?

The word Ponte is synonamous with urban decay in Joburg - it was the icon of the spectacular downfall of the CBD, and especially the most vibrant of suburbs, Hillbrow.

I dono, maybe it's just me.

sounds interesting...wow never knew that, thanks. They really should give it a revamp, sounds like quite a historical building. whatever they decide, they must just not turn it into a prison.

How many stations built so far?

How many stations built so far?

Countless(figuratively speaking). alot, and even more in Soweto.:)

They call it so because of the Vodacom advert on top of the building. But ofcourse its just an advert not the name of the building.

So it was once known as the Coca-Cola building as well?

Exactly

.....courtesy of ITDP.....if these have been posted, my apology!....

....just imagine the day Joburg can be without this crap below....

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490974025_4f980cb477_b.jpg

....and now the Rea Vaya dream come true......who knew???

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490975875_7b99f2e3b7_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490974597_a77044a8f4_b.jpg


http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490977887_a338b5962d_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490976595_7d68de8d3e_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490980497_501335b7f5_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490978547_5b23bdd347_b.jpg

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http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3491799130_3c82dc4ccf_b.jpg

Stunning pix!!! I hope the issues with the taxi people are sorted out asap. It would be a shame having the infrastructure in place and not being able to use it.

Beautiful picture mogaesho. I can't stand taxi people, not at all. Zuma must sort them our ASAP.

Beautifull pics:applause: Thanks upington

Very nice!

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3491796160_97b6435e5c_b.jpg



People like the Reverend of Methodist Church at Corner Pritchard and Small Streets are the ones which do NOT encourage investors to invest in the CBD as he housed Zimbabweans in an inappropriate area and businesses there are suffering so I guess it will take time before we see any improvements to the area around this station. The City Council need to have balls and stop that kind of nonsense from happening.





This is what a simple paint job can do. I would have expected this to have happened near the Joubert Park's Rea Vaya Station.


Courtesy of Mike from Bristol, UK

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss86/Bristol_Mikey_1/99-27th%20Apr/P1060036.jpg

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss86/Bristol_Mikey_1/98-24th%20Apr/P1050484.jpg

AWSOME!!! THANKS MATYE, REA VAYA FINALLY!

Nice, so it looks like BRT stations have their own set of robots?

Nice, so it looks like BRT stations have their own set of robots?

Ya, looks like so. also nice to see the CCTV cameras as part of the stations setup.

Those are nice pics Puls, we all know what paint job can do. And how less it cost as part of building rennovation. This guys just dont think of that.

I really hope they will be able to maintain these stations well and not let them fall into ruin. They look so stunning, so I just hope they will be well looked after.

Do we really need photos from the UK to show us 'what a paint job can do?'

Joburg is getting the BRT and it looks fantastic - how about we focus on that...

^^ yes we do.

Do we really need photos from the UK to show us 'what a paint job can do?'

Joburg is getting the BRT and it looks fantastic - how about we focus on that...

I know what you are saying mate but the thing is, cities can learn from each other as people learn from each other. In this forum, we have seen many fights over which SA city is the best. Although i like that competitivness and passion the forumers have for their cities it doesnt really add to their cities.

Johannesburg can learn a sh*tload from Cape Town, Durban, PE, Bloem etc and vice versa. Londons got their underground perfected (well kinda) so those building Gautrain should not be ashamed at look at them as a guideline. The rest of the world looks at us for help with animal/nature Conservation which is something we should all be really proud of!

Hey, Pule, whats up?
Our whole country is undergoing a massive overhaul, from ports to airports to stadiums to new roads to buildings...
We cant do absolutely everything at once, even if we we want to.

And if was a rhetorical question.

Hey, Pule, whats up?
Our whole country is undergoing a massive overhaul, from ports to airports to stadiums to new roads to buildings...
We cant do absolutely everything at once, even if we we want to.

And if was a rhetorical question.

I agree with you my friend but we Luf say we learn from one another and so can our cities do so. Honestly the buildings next to Joubert Park Rea vaya are nice but just need a little bit of a soft hand on it and that frastrates me when I do not see any investment coming along to uplift that part of the city. As I always say, that part of the city is reach with tourism spots -

1. Joubert Park.
2. Johannesburg Art Gallery.
3. Dri Hill.
4. Park Station.
5. Taxi Ranks.
6. Historic buildings


and again it's closer to Ellis Park Stadium. If the area could be upgraded and investors come on board, there will be plenty of people who would definately love to stay in the area. Rea Vaya, Taxis, Metrorail and Gautrain are in the vicinity.

I hope you understand my frastration my friend.

I know what you are saying mate but the thing is, cities can learn from each other as people learn from each other. In this forum, we have seen many fights over which SA city is the best. Although i like that competitivness and passion the forumers have for their cities it doesnt really add to their cities.

Johannesburg can learn a sh*tload from Cape Town, Durban, PE, Bloem etc and vice versa. Londons got their underground perfected (well kinda) so those building Gautrain should not be ashamed at look at them as a guideline. The rest of the world looks at us for help with animal/nature Conservation which is something we should all be really proud of!

Well said Luf.

If the area could be upgraded and investors come on board, there will be plenty of people who would definately love to stay in the area. Rea Vaya, Taxis, Metrorail and Gautrain are in the vicinity.

Don't worry Pule, most of the CBD is in the "Urban Development Zone" which is all part of the 2030 vision. There is a tax incentive for investors buying property in the area and, as far as I am aware, they even extended the deadline to 2014.

I'm sure you may have noticed a few changes here and there. For example: in Braamfontein they have redone pavements, put in sculptures, water features, new lighting and trees etc. There are probably many other areas I don't know of. So this is just the beginning, and it's all to do with tackling urban sprawl and regenerating the city centre.

Check it out here:
http://www.joburg.org.za/content/view/120/58/

Article today in the Mail & Guardian

Jo'burg mum on progress of bus rapid transit system
THEMBELIHLE TSHABALALA AND KARABO KEEPILE May 05 2009 15:49

Uncertainty surrounds the progress of Johannesburg's bus rapid transit (BRT) system, with a City of Johannesburg spokesperson unable to give comment on the new transport infrastructure.

The system hit the skids last month when angry taxi drivers went on strike and insisted on having the president of the African National Congress (ANC) Jacob Zuma attend to their grievances on how the BRT is run.

Zuma then negotiated with the taxi drivers, saying that the BRT system would "hold its horses for now".

The BRT, which will link the biggest township in Johannesburg -- Soweto -- to the busy northern suburbs, is designed to ferry commuters around Johannesburg quickly and safely through 150 stations.

According to earlier reports, the first phase (which should be ready in time for the kick-off of the Confederations Cup on June 14 2009) will comprise 40km and 48 stations extending from Regina Mundi in Soweto to Sandton.

Whether the project will actually be ready, however, cannot be confirmed.

The City of Johannesburg is not allowed to comment on Zuma's proposal to taxi drivers (that the BRT system would "hold its horses for now").

"The city cannot comment on that, we have referred the issue to the national department of transport and the ANC," said City of Johannesburg's transport department head Rehana Mosajee.

"What the taxi guys want is for the consolidation of grassroots partners to the BRT," said department of transport spokesperson Collin Msibi.

"There was an initial agreement between the [taxi] association leaders and the government but the grassroots guys were not happy with the terms of that agreement," he said adding that the negotiations between the department and taxi drivers would proceed as soon as the new government was in place.

"Infrastructural proceedings are going ahead as planned but the operational issues are still to be discussed with the taxi partners as soon as the new government comes into power."

Philip Taaibosch, the secretary general of South African National Taxi Council, said that the association had no problem with infrastructural development on the BRT, but they are still waiting for a response from government.

"We don't want anyone to think and decide for us, we want to get to a point where we put on the table what we think is best for all parties concerned because this really affects us," he said, adding that drivers don't believe that they are role-players in the implementation of this multibillion-rand project.

"We have operated and marketed these routes for donkey's years; we should be co-owners in this project."

The second part of the first phase will be implemented in 2010 and should be ready for the World Cup. It will comprise 86km and 102 stations, from Dobsonville in Soweto, through Parktown to Rivonia in the north of Johannesburg.

The first phase will cost R2-billion, with most of the funding coming from the national Public Transport Infrastructure and Systems Fund.

I do know all those Percy but I still believe that somethings can bd done quicker. You must go check Dri Hill, its going back to what it used to be a couple of years ago and that's because the area is being well taken care of. We need to develop and take care of tourist places.

Yes, that's also a concern of mine for the BRT stations themselves; that they will look as good next year (for all the tourists) as they do now.

Those BRT stations look very nice! cant wait to see them around the Cape

^^ or pta if should we get to that point :/

I can't see ANY of the pictures.... :-(

Im sure PTA and CT will get them...

I can't see ANY of the pictures.... :-(

Got an email?, PM me then i will send them mate.

Anybody knows What does the drawings in the station represent ?

I recently made the mistake to travel from Eastgate to Braamfontein and I decided to drive past the Standard Bank Arena, Johburg stadium and down Wolmarans Street. What a big mistake. The roads next to the Standard Bank Arena all closed. Wolmarans also closed and Smit Street reduced.

What I could see is all the completed and nearly completed stations (also other parts of city):
Next to Standard Bank Arena
Next to Johburg Stadium
Next to Ponte tower and University of Johannesburg
Wolmarans Street (Narrow station - must be for only one side loading)
Joubert Park
Westgate Train station
City Hall
Close to Gold Reef City

The widening of Perth road and the extension is progressing well.

Anybody knows What does the drawings in the station represent ?

To me, it looks like some sort of abstract map - maybe an arty take on the districts served by the BRT.

also been wondering and i also think its a map.

Although you'd have to be a regular Mercator to make sense of it all.http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu258/Onkez/brtinsignia.jpg

the station looks amazing, but just look at the surroundings.:ohno:

^^Joubert Park isn't exactly famous for its tidiness but to come to its defence,the entire area was a major construction site at the time.I bet things have cleared up since then.

not only the filthy road, look at the surrounding buildings.

not only the filthy road, look at the surrounding buildings.
thats most of JHB

ya i guess that jhb, if only they bought a bucket of paint.

and some cleaning chemicals

Come on guys, jozi is not that bad. Joubert park is one fo the worst eyesores of Jozi and the unfortunate part is that Johannesburg Art Gallery, Dri Hill and the actually Park, also called Joubert Park are all within this mess. You would have thought that the municipality should have made a plan for this area before other area that have been upgraded. They claim that Taxi people are making it hard for them to clean and invest in the area as they are stubborn, I say bullsh*t as as taxis park at the council's owned parking lots and street, so it should be easy to nail them after all it wouldn't be for a bad cause. Taxi people just don't wanna pay for parking spaces as there are empty parking buildings in Jozi which some are even delapidating and taxis could have actually be using them. I believe that there are those in council who are owning taxis and they are not prepared to make sure that the area is kept well an taxis are removed off the road.

We also need to be honest and not blame big comapnies for not investing in that area as the city council is supposed tobe leading the course of investment. The sad thing is th the Confedrations Cup visitors will definately wanna go see the likes of JAG and Dri hill and they gonna see this mess and go report to the world. We have to accept and deal with it as we have tried all we can but things are not going our way.

the station looks amazing, but just look at the surroundings.:ohno:

baby steps :)

Radebe's out,Sbu Ndebele is in,what impact do you predict this will this have on the BRT negotiations?

thats most of JHB

For now, and on an ever decreasing basis.

^^

Thank you! That's exactly it Lydon.

Joburg is in a bit of a state, that's a given. When I was still studying a Bsc Property Studies, our Town Planning lecturer showed us a map of the cbd with HUNDREDS of condemned buildings. The list was over 200 when it was still very new and that was 2 years ago. So there are probably hundreds of buildings that are most likely going to be demolished, as they are past the point of cost effective restoration. Some even have lights and water bills worth more than the buildings themselves! The only route is demolition in my opinion.

I have a feeling Joburg will literally be reborn, as investors gain confidence (and probably after the recession :tongue2:). Joburg has some of the cheapest inner-city land prices in the world, it's only a matter of time...

well, its a bit late if its not done by june 2010...

Great observation, but it's a mammoth task, you can't expect it to be done by next year.
Just because it wont be, that's no reason to abandon it either.

thats most of JHB

You've never even heard of Ponte and you're commenting on the whole of JHB?

Right.

Haha

I said Most, not whole
and im sure there are many who did not know the actual name of the building. I for one am not ashamed to say i did not know it. - a week later you still have not moved on.
Im not anti JHB, its our "big brother" but it could do with a clean.
As for BRT im sure JHB will be ready in time

Joburg is being held back by one major factor, the amount of illegal foreigners flowing into the CBD everyday. You cant expect a large influx of businesses to invest in those buildings when they know that the homeless will be sleeping on there front porch everyday... the situation in Zim is killing us.

Just my opnion

Thats not just happening in JHB
I think the up keep of the city has a lot to do with those who run it, eg. your mayor etc. I wont lie, the Western Cape has changed a lot since Helen Zille took over (even though im not her biggest fan)

Joburg has it a LOT worse when it comes to foreigners. It's much closer to where they're all coming from.

surly government is aware of this, why is nothing being done besides granting special passes to those from Zim who try and come legally.
On the other hand when SA was still under Apartheid, many went to neighboring countries like Zim and were welcomed, i know the numbers were much lower but its something that must be taken into consideration.
I wounder whats its like in Botswana...

Apparently quite hectic, they're deporting them left-right and centre.

well, its a bit late if its not done by june 2010...

Well, its not done for 2010. The vision stretches up to 15 years and more. for the good of the City

I said Most, not whole
and im sure there are many who did not know the actual name of the building. I for one am not ashamed to say i did not know it. - a week later you still have not moved on.
Im not anti JHB, its our "big brother" but it could do with a clean.
As for BRT im sure JHB will be ready in time

You could only say most if you knew of the whole of Joburg. ie, 80% is dirty while the other 20% is not.

I never said you were anti-Joburg, just anti-think-before-you-post.

And don't be so sure BRT will be ready by 2010, there was an article in the paper citing various sources that it will not be ready in time for the Confed Cup due to Zuma's statements, but 'alternative' plans have been arranged.

Thats not just happening in JHB
I think the up keep of the city has a lot to do with those who run it, eg. your mayor etc. I wont lie, the Western Cape has changed a lot since Helen Zille took over (even though im not her biggest fan)

Really? What's it been, a week?

lol.

My prediction is that those BRT stations will be vandalised, if not completely destroyed, before they ever see a bus stopping next to them!

^^ that is a depressing thought.. wtf, my tax argh....

if it won't be ready for the confed cup, how does that mean that it won't be ready in time for the world cup?

Really? What's it been, a week?

lol.
ah she has been mayor for quite some time lol
you never knew that?
ANC lost the WC in the last election too, so a coalition was formed between the DA the ID and the smaller parties.
Now she is Premier....I wounder why

My prediction is that those BRT stations will be vandalised, if not completely destroyed, before they ever see a bus stopping next to them!

That is the same thought i have. Hope the cctv cameras will help

I hope they stay as nice.
This is a great project, a major improvement to our public transport system.

ah she has been mayor for quite some time lol
you never knew that?
ANC lost the WC in the last election too, so a coalition was formed between the DA the ID and the smaller parties.
Now she is Premier....I wounder why

He was pointing out that you said the WC had changed since Zille came to power, though shes only been in charge of the WC for a week - obviously u meant Cape Town, all cleared up :D

My prediction is that those BRT stations will be vandalised, if not completely destroyed, before they ever see a bus stopping next to them!

Probably!

Well... Hmmm.. If you look at the metro buses, they're still pretty decent and haven't been vandalised at all. But then when you look at the metro trains... eeek.

I think though that because the government has invested so much into this project that vandalism will not be tolerated like it seems to be on metro trains. You've also got an efficient machine running the project (and not metrorail, which deserves to be dissolved), and they are likely to clean up any mess.

^^ Metrobus may not be vandalised but they sure as hell could do with more regular cleaning ... I really hope that whoever runs Rea Vaya will be a bit of a ruthless battleaxe when it comes to efficiency, customer service and beating off the taxi industry and general unruly elements amongst the public.

They have now formed PRASA which will take over from Metrorail, they will only be focused on Passenger rail

Just heard taxi drivers are rioting in Soweto today over Rea Vaya ... again

Well... Hmmm.. If you look at the metro buses, they're still pretty decent and haven't been vandalised at all. But then when you look at the metro trains... eeek.

I think though that because the government has invested so much into this project that vandalism will not be tolerated like it seems to be on metro trains. You've also got an efficient machine running the project (and not metrorail, which deserves to be dissolved), and they are likely to clean up any mess.

True. It also depends on where those transport facilities stretch up to. There is no designated stations for Metro buses. Metro rail stations are ofcourse rotten. its also a high probability that the BRT stations would be vandalised more especialy those at the townships. The worry is more on the stations than the busses.

Just heard taxi drivers are rioting in Soweto today over Rea Vaya ... again

Stupid idiots!

They're shooting themselves in the foot.

what is with the sense of self entitlement that ppl have these days.. gosh darn it, its a free coutry, thus ppl are free to improve and add to systems and industries as they pls. sink or swim yo.. so juvy..

what is with the sense of self entitlement that ppl have these days.. gosh darn it, its a free coutry, thus ppl are free to improve and add to systems and industries as they pls. sink or swim yo.. so juvy..

OR GET OUT OF THE WATER. DONT TELL US TO DRAIN THE WATER!:ohno:

It's official - as if we didn't know this already ...BRT will not be ready or implemented during the Confed Cup

From this story by SAPA:

LOC's chief transport officer Skhumbuzo Macozoma assured the briefing there would be no taxi strike. "The BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) system would not be implemented during the competition nor would the taxi drivers go on strike," he said.
"We have been given that assurance by the taxi drivers who are committed to President Zuma."

Dammit!!

I knew it! work is not even nearly finished aroundd Empire Road and around the Johannesburg City Council/Civic Theatre. I drive passed there everyday (to and from WITS) and hardly any workers working.

:( this is such a pitty.

On the bright side, we will be able to impress the world even more next year, when it is up and running!
However, the international media can be rather scathing and this doesn't look good for us...

That's funny, cause I just read this article from: http://jv.news24.com/Die_Volksblad/Express_Qwaqwa/0,,5-2257_2515793,00.html

Bus system is ready for action
May 13 2009 01:37:45:697PM - (SA)

With about a month to go until the start of the Fifa Confederations Cup, the roll-out of the first phase of the Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) system will be on time for the tournament.

Transport Minister Jeff Radebe says the infrastructure for the BRT system is going ahead unabated.

He restated that the key routes for the first phase of the BRT system will be operational come kick-off next month.

The BRT routes for Phase 1A will run from Regina Mundi to Orlando where it will link the stadium in Orlando to Soweto.

The BRT routes will also run from Soweto, along the Pat Mbatha highway, to the inner city, along Market and Commissioner Streets.

The two loops in the inner city will link the stadium in Orlando to the stadium in Ellis Park by passing through the Joubert Park area.

Radebe was confident that a meeting scheduled after 9 May between Pres. Jacob Zuma and taxi operators will see all problems resolved.

Last month in Gauteng, thousands of taxi drivers embarked on a one-day strike against the government’s BRT system.

They accused the government’s BRT system of stealing business from them.

Radebe told the taxi operators at the time that the BRT system will be a win-win situation for all South Africans. He restated that the taxi operators would suffer no loss of profit or jobs.

He told the media that the first phase of the BRT, which will run from 1 June, was expected to have an annual revenue of R1.5 billion.

“This meant taxi operators involved in BRT companies would share an expected profit of R150 million amongst themselves,” he said.