View Full Version : Downtown Orlando most walker-friendly city center in FL


MNiemann
February 26th, 2009, 08:41 PM
According to walkscore.com (http://www.walkscore.com), a website that rates addresses and zip codes based on how much they support a car-free lifestyle, downtown Orlando's zip code 32801 earned a 100% (walker's paradise -- in stark contrast to other areas in orlando and to the state at large). The website rates each area on contiguous sidewalk access (within 1 square mile) to Parks, Libraries, Bookstores, Fitness Centers, Convenience Stores, Hardware Stores, Clothing Stores, Grocery Stores, Restaurants, Coffeeshops, Bars, Theatres, and Schools.

Downtown Orlando earned a 100% for it's contiguous sidewalk access within 1 square mile to:

Grocery Stores: Downtown Publix, Thornton Park 7-11
Restaurants: (too many to name)
Coffeeshops: Java Lava, Z-Café, City Java, Roho, Starbucks (2 Locations), Volcano's, Caffè Ritazza
Bars: (too many to name)
Theatres: Mad Cow Theatre
Schools: Lake Eola Charter School, Valencia Downtown, Howard Middle School, UCF Downtown, FAMU Law, Trinity Lutheran, the Christ School, Delaney School, etc.
Parks: Lake Eola Park and others
Library: Orlando Public Library
Bookstores: OPL bookstore, Urban Think!
Fitness Centers: Metro 24/7 Fitness, Citrus Athletic Club, Downtown YMCA
Hardware: H&D Supply
Clothing Stores: Les Belles Furs, Siegel's, Urban Body, Forty VII, Ego Lab, Chic Boutique (and a few others)
Convenience/Drug Stores: Columbia St Walgreens, Publix Pharmacy, 7-11, Plaza Market

2 Other areas of Orlando also got fairly high walk scores: College Park (85%), and Baldwin Park (72%)

The website isn't perfect and did list a few things which, frankly, aren't there anymore, but Orlando does still have at least one in each category. Other FL cities' downtown zip codes also got fairly high scores:

St. Petersburg (downtown, zip code 33602) - 98%
Ft. Lauderdale (downtown, zip code 33301) - 95%
Tampa (downtown, zip code 33601) - 94%
Miami Beach (downtown, zip code 33139) - 92%
Miami (downtown, zip code 33130) - 91%
Coral Gables (downtown, zip code 33134) - 88%
Jacksonville (downtown, zip code 32202) - 80%

...and high walk scores in Florida aren't just limited to the big cities, downtown St. Augustine (zip code 32084) has a walk score of 95%. Downtown St. Aug college Flagler College doesn't even let freshman have cars their first semester.

It is true that if you live and work downtown in Orlando you could live completely car-free (and many do). However, I don't because I have friends that live in other parts of the city and I'd have no way to get around. Plus the malls are far away. If the proposed light rail system ever gets built then a lot more people would go car-free, but right now I don't see it happening even for the citizens of downtown O-town.

Kensingtonian
February 26th, 2009, 09:26 PM
at first i thought you meant walker as in old people walker.

MNiemann
February 26th, 2009, 09:40 PM
i meant walking-friendly. it won't let me edit the title! :-(

HeartofFlorida
February 26th, 2009, 10:47 PM
That's a cool link. Thanks man!

Lakelander
February 26th, 2009, 11:54 PM
According to Walkscore, Downtown Jacksonville is 88. San Marco is 80.
http://www.walkscore.com/rankings/Jacksonville

Hia-leah JDM
February 27th, 2009, 12:01 AM
Not really the case. Thats a bit of a stretch. 32801 covers pretty well all of Downtown Orlando's real core while sliding a little over the highway, while in Tampa 33602 gobbles up alot of residential area outside downtown, same for Ft. Lauderdale, Miami Beach, Coral Gables(!), and for Miami 33130 cuts up Brickell and the CBD. If you use actual addresses multiple locations in Miami, Miami Beach and all the other Florida cities reach 100% walkability.
The website is a pretty weak indicator to compare the downtowns. Going the actual places is be the best indicator especially when this website is giving identical indicators, the actual physicality and businesses, not just their being there.

SkyDiveJunkee
February 27th, 2009, 12:59 AM
With the exception of Miami Beach, this is a pretty good list. I've been to all these zip codes/cities and would rank them on walkability in the same order. Cool!

DT Orlando at the top of this list hardly surprises me.

kevinkagy
February 27th, 2009, 01:51 AM
I beg to differ. I don't think there's any place in the South that is more urban and pedestrian-friendly than South Beach. South Beach is an entire island (23 blocks north-south and 12 blocks east-west) of urban-friendly. You can walk anywhere in South Beach with a million restaurants on every corner, with museums, supermarkets, parks, schools, stores, bars, art galleries, theatres, shops, etc. That's why streets like Washington Av, Alton Road, Lincoln Road, Ocean Av and Collins Av are constantly packed with people walking, biking, skating, etc. It's a really busy and pedestrian-friendly area that I don't think any other place in the South can really compare.

Hia-leah JDM
February 27th, 2009, 03:11 AM
Thats the problem with using the zip code.

Architek
February 27th, 2009, 04:42 AM
again i agree with, the fact that ocean drive in miami beach or even coral way in coral gables are definitely more walkable than dt orlando which i've walked before. and is a bit more dangerous than both miami beach and coral gables.

SkyDiveJunkee
February 27th, 2009, 05:56 AM
I beg to differ. I don't think there's any place in the South that is more urban and pedestrian-friendly than South Beach. South Beach is an entire island (23 blocks north-south and 12 blocks east-west) of urban-friendly. You can walk anywhere in South Beach with a million restaurants on every corner, with museums, supermarkets, parks, schools, stores, bars, art galleries, theatres, shops, etc. That's why streets like Washington Av, Alton Road, Lincoln Road, Ocean Av and Collins Av are constantly packed with people walking, biking, skating, etc. It's a really busy and pedestrian-friendly area that I don't think any other place in the South can really compare.

Re-read my post.

I-275westcoastfl
February 27th, 2009, 07:44 AM
I agree with that list, Orlando is pretty walkabe but I think South Beach Miami should be first. St. Petersburg is very walkable so I'm glad to see it at the top of the list.

MNiemann
February 27th, 2009, 08:28 AM
again i agree with, the fact that ocean drive in miami beach or even coral way in coral gables are definitely more walkable than dt orlando which i've walked before. and is a bit more dangerous than both miami beach and coral gables.

downtown orlando more dangerous than south beach? no way! south beach has at least 3 times the vagrants, drug dealers, and crimes. downtown is one of orlando's safest neighborhoods.

MNiemann
February 27th, 2009, 08:32 AM
Not really the case. Thats a bit of a stretch. 32801 covers pretty well all of Downtown Orlando's real core while sliding a little over the highway, while in Tampa 33602 gobbles up alot of residential area outside downtown, same for Ft. Lauderdale, Miami Beach, Coral Gables(!), and for Miami 33130 cuts up Brickell and the CBD. If you use actual addresses multiple locations in Miami, Miami Beach and all the other Florida cities reach 100% walkability.
The website is a pretty weak indicator to compare the downtowns. Going the actual places is be the best indicator especially when this website is giving identical indicators, the actual physicality and businesses, not just their being there.

well of course going there is the best way to tell anything. problem is, people come to orlando and go to disney or ucf-area and automatically judge it without even making it downtown. i understand that downtown Miami has more than one zip code, and the website is not perfect, but it is the ONLY scientific pedestrian-examination out there right now. you could even beg to say that miami is more pedestrian friendly due to the less opressive weather and light rail system, but they have to draw the line somewhere and on that website they do it by square miles.

jzquince69
February 28th, 2009, 01:00 AM
I agree about South Beach and about Downtown Orlando. The only difference is that Downtown Orlando is a true downtown. South Beach is a neighborhood on a key across the Intracoastal from Downtown Miami. Its apples and oranges.

Lakelander
February 28th, 2009, 05:45 AM
Miami Beach is an actual city, not a neighborhood across the bay from Miami. With that in mind, the Lincoln Mall area is a true downtown. So CBD's aside, Miami Beach, as a whole, may be one of the most walkable cities in the South outside of New Orleans and Charleston.

spartan21
February 28th, 2009, 04:32 PM
how come Miami is not even in the top 40 list?
there is no way jacksonville is the only city in florida?
http://www.walkscore.com/rankings/most-walkable-cities.php
what the hell?! ahhh thats a messed up list aye? lol

Lakelander
February 28th, 2009, 06:26 PM
^They only go by the population of municipal city limits. Miami does not make the cut because the actual city's population doesn't put it in the top 40 nationwide. If they went by metropolitan or urban area population, the list would be completely different.

MNiemann
February 28th, 2009, 06:49 PM
^They only go by the population of municipal city limits. Miami does not make the cut because the actual city's population doesn't put it in the top 40 nationwide. If they went by metropolitan or urban area population, the list would be completely different.

Honestly I think everything these days should go by metro population and not just city limits. Gone are the days that cities were surrounded by walls and everyone that lived in it were "the population." But because they still do, Jacksonville is the biggest city in Florida, and "Orlando has 250,000 inhabitants." Miami's metro area is actually like 6th in the nation, and in terms of urban area i think is 3rd or 4th. I think they count Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach county.

HARTride 2012
February 28th, 2009, 08:23 PM
I'm surprised Tampa scored near the top. Usually, we are near or at dead last for a bunch of things.

Lakelander
March 1st, 2009, 02:08 AM
MNiemann, if it were up to me, I'd go strictly by urban area statistics. Its the closet thing to apples-to-apples that you will get, when attempting to compare cities.

kevinkagy
March 1st, 2009, 06:23 AM
Honestly I think everything these days should go by metro population and not just city limits. Gone are the days that cities were surrounded by walls and everyone that lived in it were "the population." But because they still do, Jacksonville is the biggest city in Florida, and "Orlando has 250,000 inhabitants." Miami's metro area is actually like 6th in the nation, and in terms of urban area i think is 3rd or 4th. I think they count Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach county.

Agreed. Miami may have the 3rd or 4th-largest urban area in the U.S., but we still have to live with having Jacksonville be the "largest city in Florida" on a technicality. Jacksonville has 1.3 million people in its metro area and Miami has over 5.5 million. Oh well -shrug-.

Lakelander
March 1st, 2009, 04:20 PM
Take Jax away and Miami still would not crack the top 40 list. We can't blame other regions for the fact that the actual city of Miami is less than 40 square miles. However, at the end of the day, who cares. When metropolitan and urban area statistics are used, South Florida stands out. When municipal city limits are used, those cities with more residents in their limits (regardless of land area) will stand out. So it really just depends on what type of statistical data one desires to us for whatever they are doing.

jzquince69
March 1st, 2009, 05:09 PM
Miami Beach is an actual city, not a neighborhood across the bay from Miami. With that in mind, the Lincoln Mall area is a true downtown. So CBD's aside, Miami Beach, as a whole, may be one of the most walkable cities in the South outside of New Orleans and Charleston.

I don't know what Lincoln has to designate it the true downtown... like I said earlier, comparing Miami Beach to any downtown in Florida's major cities is apples and oranges. I've dwelled on Lincoln many a time; not much in the way of CBD going on there other than a restaurant, boutique, and shop strip ala Las Olas or Park Ave. for example.

That's why I say apples and oranges. And that's what happens when they compare places that are completely different in nature and function, it results in misinformation. City of Miami is the CBD of relevance in Dade for that comparison to be accurate. And Bourbon St is in the New Orleans CBD, no?

I'm not saying its not walkable, I'm only saying that aside from having a city hall and normal civic functions that cities do, Miami Beach can just as easily have been merely an extension of Miami's city limits like Seabreeze (beachside) is now to Daytona, whose downtown is on the mainland.

The only major cities that should be compared are: Miami, Jax, Tampa, St. Pete, Ft. L., Orlando, West Palm, etc... b/c they are major business centers as well in their CBD... Miami Beach is not.

Miami Beach is awesome, but its not that.

kevinkagy
March 1st, 2009, 06:24 PM
I don't know what Lincoln has to designate it the true downtown... like I said earlier, comparing Miami Beach to any downtown in Florida's major cities is apples and oranges. I've dwelled on Lincoln many a time; not much in the way of CBD going on there other than a restaurant, boutique, and shop strip ala Las Olas or Park Ave. for example.

That's why I say apples and oranges. And that's what happens when they compare places that are completely different in nature and function, it results in misinformation. City of Miami is the CBD of relevance in Dade for that comparison to be accurate. And Bourbon St is in the New Orleans CBD, no?

I'm not saying its not walkable, I'm only saying that aside from having a city hall and normal civic functions that cities do, Miami Beach can just as easily have been merely an extension of Miami's city limits like Seabreeze (beachside) is now to Daytona, whose downtown is on the mainland.

The only major cities that should be compared are: Miami, Jax, Tampa, St. Pete, Ft. L., Orlando, West Palm, etc... b/c they are major business centers as well in their CBD... Miami Beach is not.

Miami Beach is awesome, but its not that.

Agreed. Miami Beach is in essence just a neighborhood of Miami. The only other city in Miami-Dade that I'd say has a Downtown would be Coral Gables in Miracle Mile, but even that is an offspring to Downtown Miami. In a city of 2.5 million, it'd be interesting to know how many work in Downtown Miami or in its proximity (Port of Miami, Civic Center, etc.)

Lakelander
March 1st, 2009, 09:19 PM
I don't know what Lincoln has to designate it the true downtown... like I said earlier, comparing Miami Beach to any downtown in Florida's major cities is apples and oranges. I've dwelled on Lincoln many a time; not much in the way of CBD going on there other than a restaurant, boutique, and shop strip ala Las Olas or Park Ave. for example.

That's why I say apples and oranges. And that's what happens when they compare places that are completely different in nature and function, it results in misinformation. City of Miami is the CBD of relevance in Dade for that comparison to be accurate. And Bourbon St is in the New Orleans CBD, no?

I guess we would first have to determine the requirements for a "true" downtown. Other than that, I'm just saying Miami Beach is a separate city with its own CBD. Of course its not on the same scale as Miami's or Orlando's, but it does have a city center. From that angle, Bourbon Street and Las Olas don't really play into the discussion.

I'm not saying its not walkable, I'm only saying that aside from having a city hall and normal civic functions that cities do, Miami Beach can just as easily have been merely an extension of Miami's city limits like Seabreeze (beachside) is now to Daytona, whose downtown is on the mainland.

The cool thing is before merging with Daytona, Seabreeze was once its own incorporated city with its own downtown. So what's there today did not grow out as an extension to Daytona.

The only major cities that should be compared are: Miami, Jax, Tampa, St. Pete, Ft. L., Orlando, West Palm, etc... b/c they are major business centers as well in their CBD... Miami Beach is not.

Miami Beach is awesome, but its not that.

Sorry, no harm meant, I wasn't aware that only the state's largest CBDs were up for comparison. How does Tallahassee compare with the ones mentioned above?

FloridaFuture
March 1st, 2009, 10:39 PM
I don't know about any ratings, but by first hand experience I would say Orlando is thrid to St. Pete and Sarasota. South Beach is obviously the best but I guess isn't a "city center."

Dunedin was rated last year to be the the best walkable city in the US for its size range.

Other city centers to consider overall would be Coral Gables, St. Augustine and Key West.

Maxim98
March 1st, 2009, 11:25 PM
Key West is pretty immaculate in terms of walkability, but it's a very special outlier.

MNiemann
March 2nd, 2009, 03:59 AM
Key West is pretty immaculate in terms of walkability, but it's a very special outlier.

key west's issue is not an issue of walkability, but how much there is to actually walk to. i think st. augustine beats key west when it comes to small towns on how much each city offers to actually walk to see. key west is great, but i don't get an urban feel being there.

Hia-leah JDM
March 2nd, 2009, 10:55 PM
I was in St. Augustine this past weekend.......AMAZING town. I luckily got a room smack in the middle of the historic district. It was great, walked all over town, never needed a car. It really is a great little Florida gem.

cityscapes
March 4th, 2009, 09:41 AM
Downtown West Palm Beach gets an 85 beating Jacksonville. I think there are more things to take into account than just the things walkscore creates their scores by. Walker friendly streets to me are ones that aren't so wide that crossing them is intimidating, a low amount of empty lots, well lit and tree lined good quality sidewalks make a city pedestrian friendly to me in addition to having good retail, entertainment, and all the other necessities nearby.

jzquince69
March 4th, 2009, 04:35 PM
^^
I was at a convention at that Marriott or whatever in downtown West Palm, the hotel right off the main drag right on the Intracoastal and about a block from the pac and City Place.

You want my opinion on walkability? I say big fat ZERO. I was scarred for my life trying to cross the street or walk that sidewalk along the main drag there-- it was super wide and busy; power lines everywhere; not ped friendly at all. It's the geography of that few block area. I guarantee you Jax is more walkable than that. Even downtown Miami is.