A interesting moment about norwegian cities, is how widespread they are. To me a proper city is the urbanized area, and not the single houses miles away from the city core.

Starting with some facts about Tromsø:
Map: http://www.gulesider.no/kart/#lat%3D7758313.67159%26lon%3D886003.86716%26zoom%3D13%26layers%3DB0000%26tab%3Daddress

Population: 65.500
http://www.ssb.no/kommuner/hoyre_side.cgi?region=1902

In the 60'ies the population in the city center was aprox. 10.000 of the 32.000 strong population. Now, the population has doubled but the people living in the city center has decreased to 1.800!

The number might be a bit to low, I'd guess quite a few students in Tromsø officially lives by their parents home adress, but this it's a fair index.

Source: "Byutvikling og infrastruktur" no. 1/march 2009

What is also curious is that the share of the people living in appartment buildings/city blocks usually is far higher than the share just living in the city core. In Tromsø 10,1 % live in appartment buildings/city blocks as we see. What's the point of living tight and dense (getting the downsides) while not living central/urban (the positives)?

Skien

Map: http://www.gulesider.no/kart/#lat%3D6563641.18553%26lon%3D534208.14356%26zoom%3D14%26layers%3DB0000%26tab%3Daddress

Population: 50.800
http://www.ssb.no/kommuner/hoyre_side.cgi?region=0806

In Skien, incredible low 1,7 of the population lives in "blokk/bygård"! Thats just over 850 single souls!

The city has a quite large area of quarters, but they are mostly filled with dense situated (still detached) single houses. They give a semi urban feel, and also forms a nice guideline for further urban growth.

Does anyone happens to know if an area like Vålerenga is counted as "enebolinger" or if this counts as a "bygård"?

Oslo inner city:

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9158/kdpforbyutviklingogbeva.jpg

Kdp for byutvikling og bevaring i indre Oslo. Utviklingsområde Sentrum (orange) med strøksgater (rød strek) og de historisk viktige strukturene (blå strek). De blå områdene viser forskjellige verne-områder. Øvrige
utviklingsområder er vist med lys orange.

I guess the dots are subway stations.

Looks like we might expect even more inner city projects

Nice thread! Do you have the numbers for Ålesund, Bergen, Trondheim and Stavanger too?

The Oslo strategy looks pretty good to me.

Sorry, but do we need another Norwegian development thread? The traffic in the Norwegian threads are already very low..

Why is an unurban commieblock appartment inferior to a house? You get away with not having a lawn - maybe you even get a janitor, while you still have a lot of room/sun and they are _cheap_ (Very important.) Usually have playgrounds for small kids, short distance to anything (schools, shops, T-bane, marka) etc. Does suburban houses have any benefits that can beat that?

And ps. The more treads the better!

^^

Probably because they are equated with poor people, and because commieblock architecture is generally disliked.

People are shallow that way. :(

The problems with commieblocks is the lack of private space. If you own a house, you do care if there is garabage at the front door. In a commieblocks, no one cares about anything but their own small apartment, (often) leading to run down enviroment. Also the fact that its all plain and boring, gives the area very little distinctiveness(egenart). I don't think it's random that the commie block areas in most cities world wide is equal to the more shady areas.

A reserch was done in the US. A street with average population, but typical city housing on one side and commie blocks on the other side. There were little social difference about the people, pretty much the same income etc. But at the commie block site the crime rate was 30% higher than on the other side.

Muster: This thread is indeed different, and has little to to about development, but more a place to collect fatcs about norwegian cities.

Oslo inner city:
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3716/osloindreby.jpg

Note: The extreme high population after WW2, is not because people were so urban minded, but the lack of housing in Norway was huge, and people lived very crowded.

My guess is the inner city population today is closer to 200.000 than those 150.000 we had in 1999. Also nice to see the trend is clear. More people tend to move to the inner city.

Not sure how they count, but if I summarize the 5 central boroughs(+sentrum) the number is aprox 195.000. But that includes Bygdøy, but not Skøyen wich lays in Ullern borough.

I think Ive read that there are 170.000 living in inner city today. In 2025 the number will aprox. be 210.000 which is good. Almost all of new developments in will be made of "fortetting" (kjenner ikke det engelske ordet). But lets hope we see some new areas in east Oslo with inner city qualities as well..

East Oslo? Do something about the west, have you ever been to been 500 meters west of Majorstuen? It's endless potential :)

Build the city alongside the subway all the way up to Ullevål!

About the commie-discussion: My impression of commie areas is not that they are so close to everything. Maybe the commie areas in Oslo is better connected to PT and schools because they are so large (but in Oslo single-house areas have great PT coverage too). In the rest of the country, though, the commie-areas usually are placed in some old forrest area a bit outside the city-center, often also with a small forrest around, keeping it from being too integrated with the surroundings.

Yes, they definitely do some development in the area around Majorstuen and Blindern.
The area here:
http://bildr.no/thumb/373136.jpeg (http://bildr.no/view/373136)
could need some transformation. But outside this area, its to "dense" with small single houses, or did I misunderstood you?

One the east side of Oslo there are much space on old factory locations, but I miss some holistic planning.

The blocks in the far right of your marking were actually the densest ever buildt in Oslo when buildt in the 30'ies;) Not sure if they still are, but not much potensial there. But I think Oslo kommune has pointed out the area from Majorstua and up to Blindern as an area suited for inner city expansion.

Well, they could have made a long facade against Kirkeveien.

What can we do about the little useless cabins surrounded by barb-wire that are taking up space everywhere tough?

Here's Rodeløkka, near where i live - a real barrier in the community:

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/SSC%20tegninger/Rodelkka.jpg

Tear down or open up for kindergardens, schools etc.? Would be cool to preserve some of them, but they are just everywhere taking up valuable inner-city space...

Certainly agree. What about opening up those areas, or at least making som walking streets through them? That would be really nice paths..

Agree, thoos cabins are only for rich bastards who live there and use a lot space, but I doubt they ever will build there....

I didnt really get an answer to other places than the area around the t-bane station on Majorstuen they can develop exept the area I showed :p

Do you have a source or document thats says that Oslo kommune want to develop the area aroundt Blindern Urban life?

You don't have to serch for long to find it, just take a look at the Oslo map above eg;)

There are room for thousands of apartments in those areas.

By the way, the cabins mentioned are buildt for the poor people in the old Oslo. Even today the prices are fixed, making it impossible to profit selling them on the open marked. The line getting one though is quite long.. I think those areas could be quite nice, a sort of urbanized park;) Lets face it. They will never be replaced with apartments, so the best we can get is the areas opened for public.

Ålesund:
Population: 42.000
Map: http://www.gulesider.no/kart/#lat%3D6929954.92822%26lon%3D355848.43424%26zoom%3D13%26layers%3DB0000%26tab%3Daddress

Arial: http://www.gulesider.no/kart/#lat%3D6929977.8927%26lon%3D353905.53263%26zoom%3D14%26layers%3D00B00%26tab%3Daddress (go east. look how silly widespread those 42.000 people lives!)

Quite hard finding theese figures, but at Aspøya(the main island and the western part of down town) some 3200 lives. But the western part of this island is far from dense. The other part of city center is Nørvøy island, with some 11.000 people living there. But this is a huge island, with mainly single houses. According to SSB 5600 lives in blokk/bygård, but a lot of those urban areas is buildt up with single houses in a very dense context. So my guess is that some 5-6-7-8.000 lives in the inner city, depentig how hard you count..

Found some quite interesting articles:

Who, why and how does people live in the inner city and the outskirts
http://img.custompublish.com/getfile.php/205300.466.ttvxwawysc/Randi+Hjorthol-Ny+urban+livsstil.pdf?return=www.transportiby.net

More detailed version of the one over:
http://www.toi.no/getfile.php/Publikasjoner/T%D8I%20rapporter/2003/672-2003/672-sammendrag.pdf

The first one is indeed recomened. Showing some nice stats of the enviroment argument of why more people should chose an urban life style.

You don't have to serch for long to find it, just take a look at the Oslo map above eg;)
There are room for thousands of apartments in those areas.

True, but they also painted the Oslo S tracks and the tracks beside Kværnerbyen orange which I doubt will be developed for many years yet...

I relly miss some future visions for areas in Oslo like they we see from Stockholm, I guess they dont have capacity for that here....

I think Oslo has far bigger city plans than most european cities. Fjordbyen eg. is a HUGE scale project, and really has imporoved the city, and still with the best parts to come.

Found som more figures:

This article says Tromsø sentrum(grunnkrets Tromsø) has some 5500 inhabitants, and the city center is growing at a much higher speed than the rest of the city: http://web4.custompublish.com/tromso/tromso_mirror/asset/13335/1/13335_1.pdf

Don't know wich numbers to belive, they propably both is right in some way. But as said before, I don't think urbanized single homes not should count. This is a norwegian way of buildings cities, and in several smaller towns, this is what the city core is made up with. (I'll come back to that later on)

Another article compares Kristiansand, Tromsø, Bergen and Fredrikstad, and how big percentage living in the city center. But the cities themselves define whats center and not, so the figures are a bit strange put up against eachother.

Fredrikstad: 31%
Bergen: 8%
Kristiansand: 9%
Tromsø: 4 %

Full article: http://www.sft.no/publikasjoner/utvikling/1726/kapittel-4/indikator04-01.html

The figures sounds very strange to me.. So don't know of what value those figures has..

Fredrikstad:
http://www.gulesider.no/kart/#lat%3D6566312.82946%26lon%3D611427.74659%26zoom%3D13%26layers%3DB0000%26tab%3Daddress
(looks like the blocks has defines "center" in this case)

Back to the wooden houses:
Tvedestrand: http://www.gulesider.no/kart/#lat%3D6498051.34904%26lon%3D495878.78417%26zoom%3D17%26layers%3D00B00%26id%3Da_10000213950%26offset%3D0%26tab%3Daddress

This small, idyllic city has a quite big part of the population living in the city core, but still at SSB only 0,5 of the population lives in blokk/bygård.

In Hammarby Sjöstad "to many" families with kids has moved in, making the city building another school. http://www.dn.se/sthlm/sjostaden-far-lofte-om-ny-skola-1.829589

Looking forward to when I see the same in any norwegian city:)

Også i arealplanleggingen skjer det mye. Byene vi har samarbeidet med i pilotarbeidet, har lagt vekt på å utvikle byene innenfor eksisterende byggesone. Disse byene sier at de har arealer nok for 30-40 år framover uten å spre utbyggingen utenfor byggesonen. Det bygges tett. Dette styrker grunnlaget for kollektivbetjeningen, og bidrar til mindre bilbruk ved at også flere hverdagslige gjøremål kan utføres innenfor gang- og sykkelavstand. Tettere bebyggelse gir også bedre muligheter for å bygge ut fjernvarme. I tillegg krever tett bebyggelse generelt mindre energi til oppvarming enn mer spredt bebyggelse.

From: Fremtidens byer: http://www.regjeringen.no/nb/dep/md/dep/politisk_ledelse/Tidligere-statssekretarer-og-radgivere/Henriette_Westhrin/taler_artikler/2007/Framtidens-byer--med-vekt-pa-klima-miljo.html?id=481091

Pilotprosjet Sentrumsutvikling, Tromsø:
http://www.arkitektur.no/?nid=155396&filter=pilotcity&pid1=151853

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3039/nid155396iid168127pidna.jpg

In Hammarby Sjöstad "to many" families with kids has moved in, making the city building another school. http://www.dn.se/sthlm/sjostaden-far-lofte-om-ny-skola-1.829589

Looking forward to when I see the same in any norwegian city:)

I was sceptical first when I saw Hammary Sjöstad, but Ive becommed more and more possitive. I juste hope Ensjø turns out to be something similar or with the atleast with the same quality...

It will be exciting to see how FMV area in Fredrikstad will be developted as well. Havent heard much lately.

31 % for Fredrikstad can't be right... It's sprawling very far out! But Fredrikstad atleast has the largest cente of the Østfold towns, and it's very lively at night;)

Selected norwegian city centers. All at altidtude of 6.00 km in Google Earth. To bad the pictures differs from blurry to nice and sharp.

Bergen:
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6836/31072056.jpg

Kristiansand:
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7985/56036376.jpg

Trondheim:
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8581/trd.jpg

Tromsø:
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/3523/44968625.jpg

Oslo:
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8573/93631827.jpg

And just for comparing:
Stockholm:
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9437/93142781.jpg

København:
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4665/12258122.jpg

And.. New York:
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7749/90660694.jpg

Thank god I'm going back already this summer..:)

Drammen:
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n125/kjetilbalog/SCC/Drammeninnercity.jpg

Funny to see how norwegian downtowns hardly would be called an area at Manhattan..

I just came back from Paris.

It's crazy how small Norwegian cities seem once you've been to a real city.

And even - when you visit much smaller places in Europe, they have a charm that is hard to find in small norwegian towns:

Han-Sur-Lesse (B), 2000 inhabitants:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/DSC00425.jpg

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/DSC00427.jpg

- Vi tror fortsatt at tilflyttingen til Oslo-området vil utløse behov for langt flere nye boliger. Man ser i dag at rimelige boliger til 30.000 kroner per kvadratmeter utenfor Oslo går greit å selge, mens markedet for sentralt beliggende, små leiligheter til 50.000 kroner per kvadratmeter er dødt.


How can we get affordable inner-city housing in a city like Oslo? More density? Bigger appartments? Skip the car-parks? Skip the useless and tiny lawns? Skip the balconies?

Also what has been a trend in smaller norwegian cities the last decades, is the numerous "byggefelt"s, far away from the center. Then they build a shopping mall(with Nille, Dressmann, Cubus and Rema 1000) with a lot of parking some where avalable only by car, emptying the old center wich earlier had made the city into THAT spesific city, and not just another dull city mall. The traditions disapair, the meeting places become private and is only avalible for the choosen, the "særpreg" is gone and the city becomes just as dead and boring as the next one..

Eg. a place with 2000 people really don't need cars, exept going on vacations etc. But with the stupid way of building norwegian cities, they are so widespread you hardly can shop without a car..

They dont manage to sell apartments in the inner city or it just take some time?
---------------------------
Sad but true... I was in Netherland and Deutchland last summer and every single city I visited., even the smallest ones had a charming nice square and a pedestrianstreet.


Actually, if you look at Moscow on google earth you see that the city centre are quite small compering to Oslo f.exa. But the surburbs beats Groruddalen pretty easily :D

Check out Los Angeles, then you consider the size of that city.... It's probably the worst example you can find;D

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3485/3278668261_96ee267456_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1012/1362641756_69b7f29427_b.jpg

Compared to Athens:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3063/3081836879_44f9f14e57_b.jpg

Actually LA is among the denser US cities, much denser than for instance Houston.

Well, Houston has a problem, if you know what I mean...:nuts:

Sad but true...

Actually, if you look at Moscow on google earth you see that the city centre are quite small compering to Oslo f.exa. But the surburbs beats Groruddalen pretty easily :D

I think the reason is because Oslo was overflooded with apartments like this the last couple of years, and this is whats mainly been buildt the last years. This goes up and down. I saw that in Bærum apartments have the highest price growt compared to single houses and attached houses.

I'm pretty sure Mosows inner city beats the shit out of Oslo. You can't just see where the square city ends;) Moscow is actually the biggest city in Europe.

Barcelona:
http://www.euratlas.com/Atlas/spain/barcelona.jpg

Propably one of the most urban cities in Europe. Over 1,6 million people at an area of 100 m2. No wonder why Barcelona also is very friendly to the enviroment, crwoded with shops and streetlife and the whole city is buzzling.

Barcelona is amazing, going there for easter;)

You're right about Houston tough, pretty much nothing there:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/180/424753172_e98eecb1ec_b.jpg

And while we're at it, Las Vegas:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3068/2295196114_5a77584bac_b.jpg

- These are both 2 million -cities....

^^ Pretty ugly I must say.

I don't understand how Vegas can turn this bad, there is actually nothing there except casinos and malls... And it doesn't even have a train-station. Only a casino-casino monorail and freight-rail. Maybe it's the heat? As we struggle with cold/rain they also have weather-problems (Even worse?) when designing cities. But then again, when i was there last summer, the projects going up both in Los Angeles and Las Vegas where all around downtown and transit-hubs, looked like there where big improvements being made, so they are on the right track, so are we, (Norway?) even worse than US?

^^Those are mostly luxuruy appartments for tourists. The real locals will probably continue theire suburban sprawl... At least Las Vegas is environment friendly in their area strategy. They're in the middle of a desert, and thereby cannot replace needed irrigated lands.

Problem is they and other cities in the US Southwest, like Phoenix, are running out of water. Population growth in those areas is not really sustainable unless they divert large amounts of water from other areas.

Why would anyone want to have their own lawn when it's 40 degrees outside?

For taking a sunbath and having your own pool? But I agree on the grass-part, though spreading grass/trees in the desert, binds more CO2 than the desert itself. Also wood in the houses bind CO2... Transporting water probably don't way up for that:p

I imagine those new developments have pools and sunbeds aswell... ;D Check out Lake Mead (Colorado river), waterlevel is rapidly sinking:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/57/172762894_d9b22cb23c.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_mead#Drought

Lyon, France.
Inhabitants: 466.000
vs.
Oslo, Norway.
Inhabitants 575.000

http://bildr.no/thumb/381904.jpeg (http://bildr.no/view/381904)

http://bildr.no/thumb/381908.jpeg (http://bildr.no/view/381908)

Lyon crush Oslo :p

Can Ikea fit in an inner-city environment like Værste and will costrumers travel with PT ?

http://f-b.no/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090408/NYHET/962975733/1220/NYHET#

Ikea, Coventry:
http://fbimg.no.publicus.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Avis=FB&Dato=20090408&Kategori=NYHET&Lopenr=962975733&Ref=AR&MaxW=768&title=1&NoBorder

Have my doubts. Not if they build like in Couventry...

England har, som Norge, strammet inn på kjøpesenterutbyggingen utenfor byene. Det har fått Ikea til å tenke helt nytt i etableringen av ti nye butikker som ligger midt i sentrum av byene. Slik har det blitt i Coventry, hvor møbelgiganten har bygd i høyden.


Shows that if a country sets a strict - but fair standard, developpers don't give it up, they simply addapt....

How does Ikea escape from Kjøpesenterstoppet in f.example Groruddalen or Sørlandsparken anyway? Looks a bit fishy to me....

A politician in Stockholm wish to ban suburban housing, punkthus:
http://www.svd.se/stockholm/nyheter/artikel_2693961.svd

^^Grorud-valley still has a superb PT-grid in comparison to most other places..

A politician in Stockholm wish to ban suburban housing, punkthus:
http://www.svd.se/stockholm/nyheter/artikel_2693961.svd

Stockholm ftw! I hope the norwegian towns look to Stockholm soon to learn...

In Stockholm it's a bit easier, since they don't have two different counties in their capital-region with different interests. Not that that can defend our policy, though...

Kongsberg has a sentrumsplan on hearing, the question is how many new residents will live in sentrum, the goal is to attract environmentally friendly transport; walking, biking and PT:

http://www.laagendalsposten.no/article/20090416/NYHET/170036019/1108#
http://www.laagendalsposten.no/article/20090416/NYHET/968042597/1108

Scenario 1 - Low density, 2-3 floors and 1000 new residents:
http://lpimg.no.publicus.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Avis=LP&Dato=20090416&Kategori=NYHET&Lopenr=698742246&Ref=V2&MaxW=768&title=1&NoBorder

Scenario 1 vil by på sammenkjedet småskalabebyggelse, tett-lav-struktur med små bygningsvolumer og små, intime uterom mellom husene.

Av de tre alternativene er dette det mest bilbaserte. Det krever mange parkeringsplasser. Denne utnyttelsen gir også minst arealer til publikums- og servicefunksjoner.


Scenario 2 3-4 floors and 2000 new residents
http://lpimg.no.publicus.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Avis=LP&Dato=20090416&Kategori=NYHET&Lopenr=874142341&Ref=H3&MaxW=768&title=1&NoBorder

I scenario 2 er det byggehøyder inntil fire etasjer.
Det vil si nybygg i samme størrelse som bebyggelsen i Storgata eller på Grünerløkka i Oslo.

4-6-mannsboliger, mindre leilighetsbygg og tradisjonell kvartalsbebyggelse med hyggelige uterom mellom husene.

I dette scenariet er det behov for et moderat antall parkeringsplasser. Mulighetene for areal til handels- og publikumsfunksjoner er gode.


Scenario 3 upto 6 floors and 5400 new residents
http://lpimg.no.publicus.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Avis=LP&Dato=20090416&Kategori=NYHET&Lopenr=372593341&Ref=V2&MaxW=768&title=1&NoBorder

I dag er det 1.200 innbyggere i sentrum. Det kan bli 6.600. Sentrumsplanens scenario 3 har høy utnyttelse av arealene i sentrum. Byggehøydene inntil seks etasjer.

Referansen er Quality Grand Hotel eller bebyggelsen i sentrumskvartalene rundt Karl Johans gate i Oslo.

Hvis Kongsberg kommunestyre skulle velge en så tett utnyttelse av arealene får Kongsberg storkvartalsbebyggelse med store luftige uterom mellom husene. På den sjablonmessige illustrasjonen av bebyggelsen, er dette scenarioet kalt «Den lille storbyen».


I have no doubt everyone here agrees scenario 3 is the best, but will Kongsbergs politicians and nimbys feel the same way?

I doubt it. They will cry out about loosing the small town charm. Even though I think alternative 3 is the best, the most realistic is 2.

They should of couse allow for a few highrises as well:D

Wow! This is really good news - if it gets buildt. It would be nice with n. 3, but also n. 2 looks good. This is a strong signal and very good to see a small city like Kongsberg is doing something as drastic as this!

I oktober 2009 velger politikerne scenarioet som skal danne grunnlag for planforslaget. Oktober 2010 planvedtak i kommunestyret etter at forslaget har vært på høring. :D

Kongsberg has a bit of congestion on the roads for such a small town, due to the main roads running trough sentrum.

Leave your comments in the articles, it's already dominated by retarded nimby-thinking!

Alternative one and two is surburbs. Number 3 looks pretty good from that angle but have to see some more. Its good to finally see something urban plans for Norwegian cities. Still far away from swedish thinking, but better.

Done:P Anyone who can show a brief map of the plans? Not very familiar with Kongsbergs streets..

I only see the ugly alternative in the article, so its not that weird that people are sceptical. And why cant they build closed quarters?

Find the other renders ^.^ But maybe people just as stupid and me and dont find the good alternative. :p

I went to school in Kongsberg for 3 years, but I can't really recognize it either. Would like to see a map or something.

I'm not sure how far the plans for a new E134 bypass has come, but that will remove much of the current traffic, especially the heaviest.

Great that plans for a new suburb around Skollenborg was stopped.

Yippy, IceCheese's here to sort all things out!!!:banana::banana::banana:!!!!111oneone

(I have only colored the area in the render, but I recon that the real plan exceeds this area by far, since it also includes existing downtown areas)
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/Kongsberg.jpg

My initial thought is just WOW. What a scale on this project! According to Wiki, Kongsberg municipal has 24.381 inh. and the city(=tettsted) has about 18.136. SSB projects a growth to about 30.000 for the whole municipal in 2030. Making a plan which in practice focus ALL of this growth in an urban downtown area is INSANE, FUTURISTIC, and most of all UNSEEN in any other Nordic city of this size, especially considering Kongsberg's location far from any larger cities.

But, sadly! In my view the alternative giving this vision (no. 3 in the article) is far from likely, much less plausible. The will go with something halfway, not suburban, but far from urban. Still, it surprises me that there exists such thoughts in minds of polticians in small town-Norway. Kongsberg actually have (compared with towns of the same size) a very large downtown area (counting the 1850-1900-style two-story quarter districts that spreads on the south/west-side of the river), and 1200 living in the downtown (6,7% of the tettsted) isn't the worst I've heard. Now they want to continue this, and that's two thumbs up from me!

Btw, the writer of those articles is my father's cousin:D

Regarding E134, the road got included in NTP 2010-19, even better, it is marked as a project for the 2010-13 period (start). The road will, of course, be paid by the cars using it (more toll booths!:bash:).

NTP word by word:
Prosjektet E134 Damåsen – Saggrenda

Dagens E134 går gjennom tettbebygde områder og gjennom bykjernen i Kongsberg. Sammen med lokaltrafikken skaper gjennomgangstrafikken miljø- og trafikksikkerhetsproblemer, og strekningen er ulykkesbelastet. Standarden på eksisterende veg er dessuten utilfredsstillende både i forhold til vegbredde og kurvatur. Årsdøgntrafikken på strekningen varierer fra om lag 4 000 til om lag 12 000 kjøretøy.

Prosjektet omfatter omlegging av E134 på en om lag 12 km lang strekning, hvorav om lag 4,5 km tunnel. Den nye vegen vil i hovedsak gå i ny trase utenom bykjernen. Prosjektet vil føre til at det etableres et bedre differensiert vegnett der trafikksikkerhets- og miljøproblemene langs eksisterende veg bedres ved at gjenomgangstrafikken føres utenom sentrum og lokaltrafikken overføres til deler av det nye hovedvegnettet. I tillegg blir framkommeligheten for gjennomgangstrafikken bedret. Prosjektet vil medføre noen inngrep i naturmiljøet.

Det foreligger vedtatt kommunedelplan for prosjektet. Arbeidet med reguleringsplan er under oppstart. Både Kongsberg og Øvre Eiker kommuner og Buskerud fylkeskommune har fattet prinsippvedtak om delvis bompengefinansiering av prosjektet.


Tabell 10.27 Nøkkeltall og virkningsberegninger E134 Damåsen – Saggrenda

Kostnadsanslag 1 400 mill. kr
Statlig finansiering 2010-2013 110 mill. kr
Statlig finansiering 2014-2019 450 mill. kr
Annen finansiering 840 mill. kr
Samfunnsøkonomisk nettonytte - 1 200 mill. kr
Reduksjon i samfunnets transportkostnader 240 mill. kr
Reduksjon i næringslivets transportkostnader 60 mill. kr
Reduksjon i antall drepte og hardt skadde i gjennomsnitt per år 0-1 personer
Endring i CO2 -utslipp (sml. med forventet situasjon uten tiltaket) 30 tonn

I must say this, your photoshop skills really impress me more and more every new day! :D

The Kongsberg plan is very interesting though, but this is a very long term plan, and i doubt we will see the most urban suggestion come true. Would be nice if parts of it was built though.

I don't have PS on my laptop, so I have to use Paint, giving me very limited resources... But, hey, no one's stopping you from redoing it!

edit: Btw, shouldn't this story have been in the "Norway | Projects and Construction"-thread? Or is this one of the really few "masterplan"-projects that kind of fit in here too? (not sure what this thread really is about) Should I post the "Ås downtown"-masterplan here?:P

^^ don't ask about it, then ill sit up all night long making too much out of it as usual! Not tonight, got better things to do.... sleep!

^^I think we all remember when you made the new Opera sink into the Oslofjord, so I agree!:lol:

If the Ås masterplan is urban, post it!

Post it anyway, masterplans are cool - and Ås interests me, since i've been there many times;D "Norwegian innercities and urban development" sounds fit to me!

Car use drops rapidly in Oslo. Propably not because less people lives in the suburbs exactly, but still I like the trend.
http://www.aftenposten.no/forbruker/bil/article3031332.ece

Proof that Oslo inhabitants rarely need to use a car, up the tolls and down with the monthly cards price, and whoops. In Bergen car use has increased in the same period, so it's likely these 2 things are the reason why it's going down in Oslo;D

The Kongsberg plan looks very good, especially alternative 3.

Now if only my local politicians here in Sandvika could come up with something as good as that.

I was just thinking, one of the arguments for owning your own house is the individuality it represents, as you can change the looks of it as you wish yourself. How come appartment-owners aren't allowed to do it? It would look cool and all the commie/steril feel would be all gone... (New villa areas are pretty uniform aswell, but atleast the house-owner is allowed to paint what colour he wants and can build an extra balcony, doghouse (English word?) etc...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/195/499495027_e9152d3032.jpg

But then again i guess your nabour would be pist of you built a 20 squarementer balcony blocking his sun, but as to a certain extent, it would be nice to have some more variety in appartmentcomplexes... :D

^^ Could be a cool idea for Filipstad :D

Sarpsborgs sprawling visions is set to a stop by the government, their intention to build a new suburb on the Hafslundsjordene farmlands are facing difficulties, maybe Sarpsborg should focus on doing something with their hopeless small and ugly sentrum instead - this town has sprawled for ages now, and it has resulted in Oslo style congestions in rush-hour, and a dead centre...
http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/ostfold/1.6574074

Sarpsborgs sprawling visions is set to a stop by the government, their intention to build a new suburb on the Hafslundsjordene farmlands are facing difficulties, maybe Sarpsborg should focus on doing something with their hopeless small and ugly sentrum instead - this town has sprawled for ages now, and it has resulted in Oslo style congestions in rush-hour, and a dead centre...
http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/ostfold/1.6574074

Sorry if I sound a bit negative today, but Sarpsborg is a strong candidate as Norways ugliest city. I agree with you on this one. They should really revitilize their city centre with dense, people friendly urbanist architecture.

Why not use the fields to a whole new city centre sine the one they have is so ugly?

It has a lot of potential, the street layout is perfect squares, there's a nice church and pedestrian street as well as a large park with a concert stage a large lake surrounded by another park, train station, large townsquare etc. All they need is build more / fix up the existing in the run-down inner-city housing down there, atm. all they think about is more and more buildings towards Grålum(E6) instead of in Sarpsborg sentrum...

Hålandsmarka

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/Hland.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/Hland2.jpg
(Has IceCheese gone mad? How can this be urban?!)

Let me explain..:) Hålandsmarka is a small tettsted south-west of the airport Sola in Sola, Rogaland. It's a part of Stavanger metro zone. But, nevertheless, Hålandsmarka is by far the densest populated town/city/continous built up area in the whole country!:shocked: With 818 inhabitants scattered over an area equalent to 0,19 sqkm, they live averagely 4.305 people per square kilometer, even higher than Oslo when you remove marka and neighboring municipals (and certainly when you count them in again!). With this density, Oslo tettsted would have to fit in 1.226.021 people, without expanding anywhere (856.915 today).

So what does this prove? Well, it certainly remove many prejudicial statements about dense living and it says something about Norwegian "cities". It puts into question evereything we've learned about suburbs and urban areas. Is modified America: suburbia with electric cars, the future after all? Pretty scary, huh?:lol:

It is an interesting find. But it seems like there's no offices or shops at this place, and we need areas for that too. If you take away areas used for this purpose, and areas used for national transport, like harbours, Oslo S and Alnabruterminalen, Oslo get alot denser;)

Infact smaller areas in inner Oslo have a density of 1000-1800 people per 250m*250m, that is 16,000-28,800 per sq.km. And there's alot of shops on the same area! Like Majorstua and Grünerløkka, for instance.

(Maybe it has been posted before?)
http://www.ssb.no/kommuner/kart_bosetting/0301-bosetting.jpg

Norwegian kids has the best living enviroment in Europe. At first I though this was due to NIMBY thoughts, but with Netherlands also at the top, it turns out to be ranked by stupid things like sexual debut etc.

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article3037488.ece

http://laagendalsposten.no/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090421/NYHET/145595303/1099

Didnt know how to put a directly link to the movie.... I think its looks pretty good.

Not really urban, but far better proposal than the stupid proposal with just another "byggefelt" outside center.

http://www.grusgrus.org/?page_id=216 (see all three pdfs)

Pretty sure this never gets changed, but this is classic example of stupid norwegian planning.

^^

Kind of pretentious, but still a huge improvement.

I wonder if the only reason the byggefelt got approved was to protect agricultural land.

Here is a case from my hood in suburbia (Mortensrud).

http://noimg.no.publicus.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Avis=NO&Dato=20090430&Kategori=NYHETER&Lopenr=516029235&Ref=AR&Profile=1196&MaxW=468&NoBorder

Almost all of the buildings in this model will be built in the future. At the moment there is a local shopping centre, and hardly anything else there. The idea is to expand the community centre with offices, shops and appartments the way shown in the model. Hopefully without just expanding the centre leaving street life dead.

My thoughts of the plans the way they stand at the moment is: could be better, could be worse.

Here is a link (http://noblad.no/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090430/NYHETER/516029235/1196) to the article in Nordstrand Blad.


http://noimg.no.publicus.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Avis=NO&Dato=20090430&Kategori=NYHETER&Lopenr=516029235&Ref=V4&MaxW=768&title=1&NoBorder
The structure at the bottom left of the picture is the T-bane station + bus stops.

I think the main success factor of such a development will be how well the square between the mall and the "glass roofed street" will function. There is already a resturant there. I would like to see more stuff there. Somewhere to sit in the sun gawking at the ladies passing by :) Would be really cool if it functioned like a small market square.

I like very much! Mortensrud needs this;D

Pretty small scale though...

Maybe more will follow later on... I always tough of Mortensrud as a place to live in the middle of nowhere in Oslo:D Now, there is only Bjørndal left...

^Lets hope so.

How is the size of this plan compered to something simular (probably) in Groruddalen?

^^

Well, its difficult to compare. The developments in Groruddalen cover a much larger area and is much bigger in that sense. But there will be more development in Mortensrud than what you see here. In particular the area marked "16" below is still without a clean plan. Unfortunatly I suspect that it will be only apartments here.

http://www.obos.no/arch/_img/9422784.jpg

See also this (http://www.obos.no/default.aspx?aid=9262265) link. Menu on the right hand side.

Well, its difficult to compare. The developments in Groruddalen cover a much larger area and is much bigger in that sense.

I kinda thought that to. :P

Do we know anything of how Groruddalen will turn out at all? Will there be typical urban style with quarters, mixed use, urbant streets and stuff? Or just some new dense detached apartments houses as usual with, one store or 5?
I guess time will show if there will be a new part of town or a more likely "groruddalen center". Yes Im a defeatist :yes:

Probably just detatched apartments, unfortinately.

Unless of course there is some master plan for Groruddalen that I haven't seen. If the government doesn't come up with something like that, Groruddalen probably won't be very urban at all.

Not even Økern will be urban, how can we expect other parts of Groruddalen to be? ;P

http://www.finn.no/finn/realestate/object?finnkode=17473024

Looking at some apartments at Finn, I've seen a new thing they have came up with. Nabolagsinfo! This has some very interresting infos, showing eg. how many kids living a) in the area b) in the neighbohood c) in the city.

This example is from Bodø. It shows that A LOT of old people lives in sentrum in Bodø. I thought that the numbers in inner city of Oslo was just as bad as this, but gladly there are almost just as many kids in the inner city in Oslo as in outer city. This is a random ad from Løkka, http://www.finn.no/finn/realestate/object?finnkode=17161132&sid= .
Just search at Finn, and you'll find the other areas of Oslo.

Turns out there is more kids in inner city than I though! Good news!

Hint: Often DNB and Aktiv have theese infos

Why is that different? Is Oslo more children-friendly? Or are Oslo parents just hooked on urbanity and can't let go of the inner-city life? The city loving Norwegians are likely to move to Oslo, not Bodø i guess...

13 cities in Norway is cooperating with the state in the initiative Cities of the future, in planning for a large reduction in emissions trough increased bikeuse and walking, smarter waste disposal with increased recycling, dense building, smarter energy use and energy sources, more recycling, revitalisation of downtowns, more efficient public transportation and more expensive driving.

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/miljo/article3082722.ece

I wish new urbanism could come to Norway soon so we can get an end to all this mid-twentieth century de-urbanisation that has been going on for too long now. Unfortunately most people don't understand that relatively dense urban areas is the most attractive and pleasing. Luckily Sweden seems to do very well now, hopefully that will make it easier to import the ideas to Norway as well.

I wish new urbanism could come to Norway soon so we can get an end to all this mid-twentieth century de-urbanisation that has been going on for too long now. Unfortunately most people don't understand that relatively dense urban areas is the most attractive and pleasing.

Maybe it is the most attractive and pleasing for you, but don't forget that MANY people and probably MOST people in Norway find the suburb's more attractive. The city is not for everybody.

Luckily Sweden seems to do very well now, hopefully that will make it easier to import the ideas to Norway as well

How is Sweden doing well? To me it seems that Swedish cities focus more on developments outside city centre's than in Norway, or at least they are not any better.

Sweden is definitely doing better than in Norway. Not everywhere, but especially Stockholm are doing alot better than norwegian towns.

Sweden is definitely doing better than in Norway. Not everywhere, but especially Stockholm are doing alot better than norwegian towns.

Better than Bjørvika? I doubt that!

^^But Bjørvika isn't particulary dense. It's less dense than the "murbyen" in Oslo...

^^But Bjørvika isn't particulary dense. It's less dense than the "murbyen" in Oslo...

Of course it is dense. It all depends where you draw the line for the area. But I agree if we see the hole area it is less dense, mainly because of many parks and open spaces by the fjord, and the big roads.

Density is not all. Bjørvika adds much more of big city feeling to Oslo than Tjuvholmen, even if Tjuvholmen is denser..

Bjørvika will hopefully be a exception of good innercities development, but generally the innercities development has been awfull the last 60 years. Løren and Ensjø is though a little bit better and is hopefully the beggining of more urban developments outside the city centre.

Yeah, but what about smaller towns? SmalltownUrbanist didn't just say "Oslo". Not much happening in small town Norway, really. Some towns have released some plans to expand inner cities, but there still is FAR TOO MUCH "boligfelter" being built around this country. Never gonna change...

Talk about the sun http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=407764&page=38
Looks urban from above at least.... Groruddalen sweet dreams...

Yeah, but what about smaller towns? SmalltownUrbanist didn't just say "Oslo". Not much happening in small town Norway, really. Some towns have released some plans to expand inner cities, but there still is FAR TOO MUCH "boligfelter" being built around this country. Never gonna change...

Small towns are small towns. There is no market for big inner city developemts, more like one house here and there. If you look at Drammen I think we can talk about inner city developemt, but again it depends on the market.

Talk about the sun http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=407764&page=38
Looks urban from above at least.... Groruddalen sweet dreams...

I think Groruddalen will be a lot cooler than that in the future. ;)

Small towns are small towns. There is no market for big inner city developemts, more like one house here and there. If you look at Drammen I think we can talk about inner city developemt, but again it depends on the market.

So every Norwegian town/city with less than 100.000 inh. should keep developing housing districts? Even suburbs in the larger city regions?!

I think Groruddalen will be a lot cooler than that in the future. ;)

Have my doubts:ohno:

In Tønsberg, they talk about the problem the growth has caused the last couple of years. They have to take of the fields to make new houses:bash:
Why not build new DENSE areas instead. The villa areas around the city cant stay there for ever... Just like in Oslo, the villa areas is to good protected I think...

So every Norwegian town/city with less than 100.000 inh. should keep developing housing districts? Even suburbs in the larger city regions?!

Of course not, but there has to be a market for such developments + available properties next to inner city. If these factors are not there it wont happen. I don't see any municipality doing expropriation for developments like that, if it is not needed..

Have my doubts:ohno:

In Tønsberg, they talk about the problem the growth has caused the last couple of years. They have to take of the fields to make new houses:bash:
Why not build new DENSE areas instead. The villa areas around the city cant stay there for ever... Just like in Oslo, the villa areas is to good protected I think...

Would you say the same if it was your house? No need to be fanatic here ;)

Probably not. But its still a pretty natural development.

Probably not. But its still a pretty natural development.

I agree. The forces of gravitation will also make it happen, but in a longer time perspective that we would like.. :)

Of course not, but there has to be a market for such developments + available properties next to inner city. If these factors are not there it wont happen. I don't see any municipality doing expropriation for developments like that, if it is not needed..

Why not exactly? Re-zoning wildly raises the value of a property. By doing this you are basically throwing money into peoples hands. I don't see why anyone would have a problem with this. To build new areas the state wouldn't have to expropriate. You could make a plan, re-zone and make people sell their properties or build something in accordance with the plan.

If I had the choice between keeping my house, or making 5 million NOK and getting a much better house somewhere else, I think I know what I'd go with.

I agree with mjoks, the villa areas can't stay there forever. In the long run, denser small towns are better for the environment and for the people that live there. People are never going to stop using their cars unless you make it possible to do so.

That is probably doable in Oslo, and maybe Bergen, Stavanger and Trondheim. I don't see it happen in the smaller cities. 5 mill pr house is a lot, and in Oslo west they probably have to pay 5-15 pr house (http://www.finn.no/finn/realestate/object?finnkode=17644688&sid=xz6fbd35Qs8674372)

With this going on it wont happen anyway (http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/ostlandssendingen/1.6484864)

The good thing is that this could make room for more higrises in the established urban areas.

What I meant was that developers would pay for the houses. All the state would do is rezone and establish guidelines for any new stuff that is built. The state could possibly act as a middleman as well. Property is given over to the state, the state sells it to developers, and original owners get a sum relative to the area they gave up. That way you could easily develop new areas without ripping anyone off.

That link was news to me. Such a shame. It's clearly been put into place to protect NIMBYs :(

I understand that Ullevaal hageby is protected. Someone know if there is a map of the protected areas? The villa area from Majorstuen against Vindern f.eks. is those protected?

^ It's not just Ullevål hageby - it's MOST villa areas in Oslo, aubviously this is another line of protection beyond Riksantikvaren - because plan og bygningsloven allows what one can call småblokker, 3 floors and a basicly 3 appartments in the same space as one villa, this is what Småhusplanen is fighting... :bash:

Natural development would ofcourse make areas like Grefsen, Sinsen and other gradually turn more dense because of the land value... Zoning is all there is to it and Kjøpesenterstoppen is a good step on the way. No one will loose their house, only bought houses by developpers who see a way of profit.

And btw: I do believe that New Urbanisms will come to Norway, slowly but still. The farmland and climate-arguments as well as social cityscapes arguments will help a lot in this regard ;D

I'm also sure "jordvernet" eventually will win, and that more and more people will want to live urban. For the foreseeable future, though, I suspect more ecofriendly solutions will make room for yet new housing districts. The arguments will be something like this outdraw from an ongoing regulating process in my home municipal:

I arbeidet med reguleringsplan for Dyster-Eldor II skal det legges vekt på å utvikle et helhetlig boligområde som legger til rette for framtidsrettede løsninger innen energi (fjernvarme, energieffektive hus), kretsløpsbaserte løsninger for avløp, miljøvennlig transport (gang- og sykkelveier, trasé for ringbuss) og som tilpasser tomter, lekearealer, fellesarealer til områdets naturlige vegetasjon. Arbeidet skal bidra til å nå målene i kommuneplanen innen samfunnsutvikling og boområder, og må ses i sammenheng med arbeidet med en klimaplan for Ås kommune.
:nuts:

http://osu.no/fileadmin/templates/main/images/main_bolig.jpg

Good news. Holmen-senteret in Asker is (again) struggeling (and will hopefully need to close)

http://www.estatemedia.no/ArticleDetails/tabid/83/Skin/2/SecID/1/ArtID/2049/Default.aspx

^ That's almost what i got in my living room ;) Except my view isn't over the opera ofcourse:P

Accoring to this movie article there lives 560 persons in Kvaderaturen - not to far away from my earlier estimate in some other thread (anyone remember?) I think. But they are propably not counting in all those students etc. who still officially lives by their mom.. There is also a suggestion to tear down a square to make a meeting place in Kvaderaturen - which I actually think is a quite good suggestion. Today there are no places to be..

http://www.cik.no/estate/index.php?id=66

Worring to se that some schools in Oslo have close to 100% immigrant students. Allthough it's both good and interresting to se how widespread the "norwegian" schools are, eg. Grünerløkka is below average.

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/oslo/article2184373.ece

Tøyen 96 %, Bogstad 5 %.... ;D Don't know if there is need to worry, but it's surpricingly high/low numbers....

Tøyen 96 %, Bogstad 5 %.... ;D Don't know if there is need to worry, but it's surpricingly high/low numbers....

wow, that is crazy.

ive always loved diversity, wether it comes to architecture or people, but there is one thing that sucks about very many of the immigrants that come to norway.. they all seem to move to the same parts of the cities and create ghettos :(

you guys have tøyen (and i assume alot of other places), while we have kronsminde (somewhere around that area, atleast).

my friend went to a school where several of the classes we're ALL FOREIGNERS, while i went to a school where we had NO foreigners in any of the classes..

the state are the one to blame for this one. its because they create public housing at specific parts of town, instead of spreading it out all over the cities/country.

i wish itd be like in manhattan where you see all kinds of different races everywhere (and i bet it is kinda like that in oslo), instead of having to go to certain places of the city to see certain types of people :(

and yes, i am aware that new york has got ghettos, too (i visited harlem this summer. really crazy).

so yeah :) i just wish the goverment could place public housing in different parts of the city, to make more variation and less ghettos!!

Yes it's indeed time to worry, but you can't just compare it like that. Because in some areas where you have several schools, you'll see that there are big differences between the schools. A school who end up with an "ethnic reputation", makes many "norwegian" families to send their kids to another nearby school. Maybe not the best example, but theese schools at Stovner is only a few hundred meters apart.
Stig 79%
Stovner 57%

Quite strange really. Because at Tøyen my estimate is max. 30% ethnic population, but aparently non of theese 70% "others" have kids. Or - they send the kids to a "white" school.

Take a look at Manglerud, where only 16% are ethnic. Or Mortensrud where you have 97%.. Both areas far more etnic than Tøyen, and completly different.

The west/east thing is obvious. But I also sense a thing that some inner city schools are getting "whiter", like Grünerløkka and Lakkegata(which I belive was close to 100& ethnic some years ago). Not sure though, but at least hope so. No school can work good with close to 100% non-norwegian kids. And I tend to stay in the city, and I will not send my kids to a school where 90% is ethnic. But I guess with Bjørvika development the whole area will be more attractive for all kind of people - not only poor immigrants.

so yeah :) i just wish the goverment could place public housing in different parts of the city, to make more variation and less ghettos!!

Agree. But also find a way to have more immigrants wanting to settle in whole of Norway, and not only the Oslo area. It's also important to have different housholds all over town. Eg. Grouruddalen (hate to say this) needs more single houses who can attract richer people and avoiding the ghettos.

Agree. But also find a way to have more immigrants wanting to settle in whole of Norway, and not only the Oslo area. It's also important to have different housholds all over town. Eg. Grouruddalen (hate to say this) needs more single houses who can attract richer people and avoiding the ghettos.

sadly, immigrants will always be wanting to move to a place where there are other immigrants. not necessarily because they know anyone who lives there beforehand (though this may often be the case), but really just because they naturally prefer to be around people of their kind.

its the same as if you were to move to somewhere like india, you'd obviously want to move to the place of the city with the biggest scandinavian population, yeah?

so obviously theyre gonna choose one of the big cities, and as oslo already ahs the most immigrants, this is the natural choice. next they choose the part of oslo with the most immigrants etc

then again, if the government spread public housing throughout the city, there is a chance that the immigrants would be nearly be forced to live apart, as they wouldnt be able to afford "normal" houses/apartments.

so yeah, im all for having diversity among the citizens of norway, but.. ghettos :ohno: no thanks.

Yes. Of course I also would move to where all those norwegians lived. But immigrants are not one culture and one people. They are from all the world, and the problem isn't that theese lives together, but that all the immigrants in total live in the same areas. Trying to spreading this out would propably integrate them better. School is a very important factor in this. And if theese kids never meets norwegian culture, we can't expect them to be any more integrated than their parents.

By the way. According to an old article in Aftenposten, Ullevaal Hageby is Oslos nr. 1 ghetto. 100% white, houses stays in the family etc..

oh, wow. ullevål hageby sounds... BOOOOOOOOOOORING!!!

and most norwegian immigrants are from pakistan, arent they? i actually think that there are very few foreign (people not from europe) immigrants in oslo who arent from pakistan.

but really, just living with other people whoa re in the same situation as you, must give a certain feeling of safeness and belong. so no matter what, immigrants will always stick together in foreign countries. the only think the state can do about it, is put public housing further apart.

^ No, there are many more cultures besides Pakistan!


Innvandrere i Oslo
Oslo har den største andelen, med 130 690, 24 prosent av befolkningen (SSB 2006). 107 000 av disse har ikke-vestlig bakgrunn. Noe som tilsvarer 19,6 % eller 1 av 5. Bydel Søndre Nordstrand har den tetteste innvandrerbefolkningen med 42 % innvandrere. I Groruddalen er 32-38 % innvandrere. Bydel Alna har flest antall ikke-vestlige innvandrere med 16 499.

De største ikke-vestlige innvandrergruppene i Oslo, 2006:

Pakistan 20 036
Somalia 8 878
Sri Lanka 7 128
Irak 5 818
Tyrkia 5 608
Marokko 5 431
Vietnam 5 016
Iran 4 825

^^Why the old numbers?

Jan 2009 (http://www.ssb.no/emner/02/01/10/innvbef/tab-2009-04-30-11.html)

Oslo:
I alt 152.149

1.Pakistan 20.812
2.Somalia 10.780
3.Sverige 9.250
4. Polen 8.854
5.Sri-Lanka 7.142
6.Irak 6.475
7.Tyrkia 5.844
8.Marokko 5.726
9.Vietnam 5.436
10. Iran 5.123
11.Filippinene 3.944
12.India 3.598
13. Danmark 3.362
14. Tyskland 2.923
15. Bosnia-Hercegovina 2.528


Bergen
I alt 26.489

1.Polen 2.741
2.Irak 1.589
3.Vietnam 1.247
4.Chile 1.218
5.Sri Lanka 1.114

In a few years there will probably be more immigrants in Oslo than the hole population of Bergen..

Belgium isn't even on the list.. :) Makes me feel very special, maybe we should make a ghetto of our own;D

Belgium isn't even on the list.. :) Makes me feel very special, maybe we should make a ghetto of our own;D

You have a job to do, if you get my drift :colgate:

oh, wow. ullevål hageby sounds... BOOOOOOOOOOORING!!!

and most norwegian immigrants are from pakistan, arent they? i actually think that there are very few foreign (people not from europe) immigrants in oslo who arent from pakistan.

but really, just living with other people whoa re in the same situation as you, must give a certain feeling of safeness and belong. so no matter what, immigrants will always stick together in foreign countries. the only think the state can do about it, is put public housing further apart.

Yes. Of course, but only to a certain point. Because immigrants also is very different, they also see that there are som problems putting them all together: http://www.dagsavisen.no/innenriks/article418561.ece?showLast=true&status=showall#responseLastComment

Or:
http://www.tv2nyhetene.no/innenriks/article2324937.ece

IMO Oslo is very close to the maximum of what the city can handle. Oslo alone can't save the worlds 1,5 billion poors..

Yes. Of course, but only to a certain point. Because immigrants also is very different, they also see that there are som problems putting them all together: http://www.dagsavisen.no/innenriks/article418561.ece?showLast=true&status=showall#responseLastComment

Or:
http://www.tv2nyhetene.no/innenriks/article2324937.ece

IMO Oslo is very close to the maximum of what the city can handle. Oslo alone can't save the worlds 1,5 billion poors..

It is really a paradox. In some years the immigrants in Oslo could become the ones who are most against immigration. I have many colleagues/friends who are immigrants from Pakistan, Chile, Marocco and Turkey. Most of them don't like immigrants and wants to live in areas with Norwegians :lol:

^ I love when they do that, as we have seen a large number of strange names on the Frp- lists recently :) I don't worry that much about immigration myself, and where i live i am often the only white guy on the tram up Trondheimsveien :D

cool numbers. it seems like we could use some of your immigrants, oslo!!

seriously, itd be cool if oslo used bergen as avlastning when it comes to immigrants ;)

we'd just have to make sure they stayed on the right side of the damsgårds bridge :P

immigrants who dont like immigrants are hypocrites. ingenioren, im surprised to hear that youre from belgium. are both your parents from there? were you born in norway?

i guess its not a "problem" for you as belgians look just like norwegians/scandinavians, right?

my dad is an immigrant. hes russian, but i still look 100% norwegian haha.. maybe im a "bytting" :O

but yeah, we should definitely encourage immigrants to move to bergen, stavanger or trondheim instead to create some balance ;) itd be great.

I'm not a real immigrant since i'm borned here, and this feels like my home for sure! But still have the passport of Le Royaume de Belgique :)

Worring to se that some schools in Oslo have close to 100% immigrant students. Allthough it's both good and interresting to se how widespread the "norwegian" schools are, eg. Grünerløkka is below average.

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/oslo/article2184373.ece

There is something fishy about these numbers. I used to live about 20 meters from Mortensrud skole. No way there are 97% immigrants among the kids there (unless almost all the norwegian kids have quit since then). I remember seing a list of the names of all the people in my borettslag (next to Mortensrud skole), and about 30% of the apartments had immigrants, which seems to be typical for the area.

Stenbråten skole about 200m away has fewer immigrants, but no way half of the kids there are immigrants either. I have a feeling these numbers are not what they are portrayed to be.

I'm not a real immigrant since i'm borned here, and this feels like my home for sure! But still have the passport of Le Royaume de Belgique :)

You actually count as an immigrant if one of your parents are born in a foreign country. :)

Edit: Hm, I need to check the facts I think....:lol:

Both your parents of course..

I'm sure they're right in some way, but I agree that they should have given more info on how the list is done. Is a half swede an imigrant? Propably on this list. Also schools like Uranienborg and Ruseløkka, which are typical west-side-all-white-school are remarkable high numbers. But I guess there are many diplomats etc.

Those numbers are from 2007, so if you moved within the last two years you'll propably right.

This is the 2008-numbers, showing that the inner city schools gets more "norwegian":
http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:gGHAmdUpLqgJ:www.utdanningsetaten.oslo.kommune.no/getfile.php/utdanningsetaten%2520(UDE)/Internett%2520(UDE)/Dokumenter/rundskriv/0902.pac.minspr%C3%A5k.statistikk0809Prosent.xls+GSI+og+Utdanningsetatens+oktobertelling+2007&cd=2&hl=no&ct=clnk&gl=no&client=firefox-a

I have them both passports, and with different names in them, Bond - James Bond:) I'm glad to here i am not in the statistics, as i don't feel like an immigrant:D

Building a new, urban city from stratch at Brokelandsheia.
http://www.allgronn.org/sluttrapport-brokelandsheia-underveis-til-en-by-13mai.pdf

Nice one! I drive by that place everytime I go to my cabin, and it always looks so depressing. At the moment it's basically a huge car park/mall.

It's a shame that the timescale is so big though, 20 years. But I guess that's how long it takes to develop a city that's more or less in the middle of nowhere.

Finally back to topic :lol:

Think it looks very nice and cosy.

ARGH, in the middle of nowhere?

who is paying for this to be built?

if its the state, i think they should rather focus on making the cities oslo, bergen, trondheim and stavanger bigger instead of making new cities from scratch..

^^

Developers are, the state just does the planning.

Why do you think the state is gonna pay Oo?

i have no idea.

to be fair, i dont know anything about budgeting or financing or anything like that. :lol:

soo what is the main point of building this thing?

Building a new, urban city from stratch at Brokelandsheia.
http://www.allgronn.org/sluttrapport-brokelandsheia-underveis-til-en-by-13mai.pdf

Wow, not bad plans for a place that couldn't be found by neither Gulesider, nor Finn kart.:nuts: It's not in Statistisk sentralbyrås tettsted-list either!! Most impressive plans, yes. Can be interesting to follow!

^ And i think the place is a candidate for a new train station if/when Grenlandsbanen is built. I think the plans are ok, for being in the middle of nowhere on Sørlandet, this is pretty good :)
http://www.jernbaneverket.no/PageFiles/1477/Grenlandsbanen_1417243a.jpg

For nimbys, allgrøn sure like their small-scale urbanity, only no no no taller than 4 floors, right?

^^Lol to "B" station :lol:

Yes, the new railroad station was an important factor in the plans, after what they said in the PDF.

I'm afraid NSB would just scrap passenger trafic on that red line, but it's a small prize to pay, who want's to travel to Bø anyway? (No the train doesn't stop at the park.. )

soo what is the main point of building this thing?

Today there are a quite big amount of industry/"plasskrevende handel", which again leads to jobs, and the workers are preferably living close to their job. Also. People=costumers, costumers=money

If this gets buildt the way it's intended, I guess less than 10% of the workers will need a car, and that is remarkable in Norway.


to be fair, i dont know anything about budgeting or financing or anything like that.

If you have nothing to contribute, don't comment. No need for another "christos-greece"..;) See and learn:)

i was just assuming. my contribution was simply asking for more information.

what is christos-greece?

You will find out soon enough:)

im guessing it was a really unpopular member who either got banned or left.

got banned or left.

we wish:)

i was just assuming. my contribution was simply asking for more information.

what is christos-greece?

Yes. But most things are written either in the sources, earlier in the thread or at Wikipedia. Remember this is not MSN or a random chat, and the quality of the forum drops if the users don't think before posting. I rarely posts if it doesn't add anything new to the thread.

Christos-greece is a forumer posting stupid amounts of uninteresting posts telling like "I like that", "That was nice" or asking stupid questions he had known the answer to reading older posts for 2 minutes.

Don't mean to be to hard here, just giving you a friendly advice;) I'd love to see you keep up with the news from the capital of bad weather! :lol:

okay, i get it. its cool. i already told you i didnt bother reading the PDF and i dont see the point in searching through wikipedia when i can just ask here. its much easier, and if anything it will give someone the good feeling of having helped someone else :lol:

okay, maybe i will start thinking before talking ;)

the other forums i go to are much less "høytidelig".. but they are mostly off-topic sections, so yeah.

i hope that one day i can get my own camera and start documenting constructions going on in bergen. we need more norwegians here, though. we are like.. what, 5?

to be honest, there should be created seperate sections for each of the nordic and baltic countries.. itd be much more oversiktlig. maybe ill tell the admin about it. what do you all think?

^ In a little while we will hopefully have the yimby.no page up with an all Norwegian forum, i'm guessing that will draw new members faster than this forum does :D

okay, i get it. its cool. i already told you i didnt bother reading the PDF and i dont see the point in searching through wikipedia when i can just ask here. its much easier, and if anything it will give someone the good feeling of having helped someone else :lol:

okay, maybe i will start thinking before talking ;)

the other forums i go to are much less "høytidelig".. but they are mostly off-topic sections, so yeah.

i hope that one day i can get my own camera and start documenting constructions going on in bergen. we need more norwegians here, though. we are like.. what, 5?

to be honest, there should be created seperate sections for each of the nordic and baltic countries.. itd be much more oversiktlig. maybe ill tell the admin about it. what do you all think?

I think you have to relax. Get to know the forum and how it works before you try changing ;)

yeah, okay.

itd be much better, though.


an all-norwegian forum sounds great :)

you could have one section for each city / area etc and maybe one for other scandinavian countries etc etc

id definitely join (if youd have let me) :)

Brokeland city:lol:

I drive by there 4-8 times a year, as I am from Kristiansand. Funny to see how it already have developed from nothing in the middle of nowhere to quite alot in a few years. Seems like there's something new there every time I pass. I'm looking forward to see how this develops.

Molde has gotten a consensus on the sentrumsplan after Riksantikvarens protests, the planners wanted to get sloping roofs back in the picture, in order to do so a bunch of buildings are allowed to add new floors, hopefully these new floors will have lofts for inhabitants wanting to live sentral. Great, i know often there is a lack of small sentral appartments, especially for young people - who ofcourse love these, they have to instead live in suburban-cellers. (I know i did one year, it's the worst kind of living ever.)
http://www.rbnett.no/article/20090617/NYHETER06/748378430/1085

In Moss 240 new central student-appartments are ready to start, there are also 200 more planned for this area, and they are using old buildings to house them. Finally, since Moss does not have a sentrum to match it's "high" population. There are also more plans for development of the old Mill-area with very charming streets on the rim of sentrum:
http://www.moss-avis.no/article/20090617/OKONOMI/664238043/1003/NYHET

wasn't sure where to post this video.. Enjoy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ZeXnmDZMQ

A fantastic guide to Møhlenpris i Bergen. This area is home to aprox 2000, and the author compares it to Grünerløkka - only with the exeption that Grünerløkka became trendy and Møhlenpris not. Tons of good photos and interesting stuff! It's written in english. so no excuse for you foreigners not to read it;)

http://beingbergen.blogspot.com/2005/07/mhlenpris_112117849256231042.html

City of Rain/Somebody:
Is the Roan shop still running?
(Photo: http://photos1.blogger.com/img/238/6833/800/vinterigjen%201070.jpg )

Can't find it at the map: http://kart.finn.no/ but yoy can't exactly trust Finn to have a freshly updated guide over small, independent shops.

Also read about Spildes grocerys. What is this, and is it still in buisness?

^^ Nice guide, lovely area!

Sad that they are about to (IMO) blow up the opportunities for the neighbour area; Marineholmen. A good plan for Marineholmen could bring more life to Møhlenpris..

Where can I fin out more about Marineholmen?

http://www.bt.no/nyheter/lokalt/Vedtar-bro%2C-cornerflagg-og-kontorby-828377.html

http://www.marineholmen.com/?page=39

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af172/mjoks007/Biobyggene_marineholmen.jpg
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af172/mjoks007/marineholmen_sintef2.jpg

City of Rain/Somebody:
Is the Roan shop still running?
(Photo: http://photos1.blogger.com/img/238/6833/800/vinterigjen%201070.jpg )

Can't find it at the map: http://kart.finn.no/ but yoy can't exactly trust Finn to have a freshly updated guide over small, independent shops.

Also read about Spildes grocerys. What is this, and is it still in buisness?

no idea. sorry. i never go to møhlenpris.. tbh the area is very drug-infested. well, maybe not møhlenpris, but atleast the surrounding areas.. nygårdsparken and right across the puddefjords bridge are both popular places for drug addicts, so i dont go there too often.

we used to play football at the football court shown in the guide in gym class with school, though. the school is located in the city center, so we always had to cross nygårdsparken.. which is always unpleasant as heck. shame, as its such a beautiful park *sigh*.

http://www.bt.no/nyheter/lokalt/Vedtar-bro%2C-cornerflagg-og-kontorby-828377.html

http://www.marineholmen.com/?page=39

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af172/mjoks007/Biobyggene_marineholmen.jpg
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af172/mjoks007/marineholmen_sintef2.jpg

wow, i had no idea they were going to build so many buildings in that area.. it will be awesome, especially with the bybanen stop right by :)

here is a vid http://www.marineholmen.com/?page=39&show=42

Her finner du ca. 1500 aktive brukere. Innen år 2020 vil tallet ekspandere til 4000.

so the whole marineholmen will be done by 2020?

4000 people will sure add a lot of business to the area :) great project, though the developers seem to have a phobia against buildings over 2 floors..

so the whole marineholmen will be done by 2020?

^^Whats cool about that project? A office town where noone other than workers will have interest off? Absolutly dead after 16 every day and in the weekends? Misplaced...

no, i think the offices are totally suitable for that area.

youll only be able to get an office there if you work with science-stuff, so its cool that they have all the different science stuff in that place.. like in new york where they have things like "art gallery district" and so on.

the other side of the fjord will be mainly a residental area, with a bridge connecting the two ;) im all for expanding our little science corner by nygårdsparken, though i wouldnt mind if they made some of the buildings a little taller...say... maybe.. 50 floors? :P

Looks like the government (at least Miljøverndepartementet) shares many of our views regarding city development.

Framtidens byer er bygget tett, så vi bor samlet. Da kan vi gå og sykle i stedet for å bruke bil, og dermed forurenser vi mindre. Med færre biler og veier blir det også mer plass til sykkelstier, parker og lekeplasser. Det kommer ikke bare til å gjøre oss alle litt friskere og sunnere; parkene tar også av for regnvannet vi kan vente oss i framtiden.

Source (http://www.regjeringen.no/nb/dep/md/tema/planlegging_plan-_og_bygningsloven/by_og_tettsted/framtidens-byer.html?id=525234)

This could have been taken directly from YIMBY in either Norway or Sweden

(and the picture in the link is damn nice)

They got the right ideas, now we just need to see some more serious efforts for putting them to life.

The problem is that Løren (f.eks.) probably would qualified to successful, dense area and urban area in Miljøvernets book.

The problem is that Løren (f.eks.) probably would qualified to successful, dense area and urban area in Miljøvernets book.

And Fornebu...

In my book to, Løren is fine density, far denser than Fornebu for sure!

^^Yes, but not pleasant or urban.

Interesting project in Skien, 20 backyards get a total makeover and opens to public:)
http://www.varden.no/article/20090930/KULTUR/551030548
http://www.distriktssenteret.no/Godeeksempel/Artikkel/tabid/7364/smid/15674/ArticleID/164/reftab/7353/Default.aspx

Looks like some towns is understanding that they can't attract with suburbs and shopping centres alone... =)

^^Apropos Grenland, I read in Varden and Byggeindustrien yesterday about a plan to turn most of old Porsgrunns Porselensfabrikk into a part of the city with offices, appartments and shops/cultural stuff. The size in total will be around 30.000 sqm, not bad for a small city. No renderings were shown though...

Is there a map, showing the factorys location to the city core?

You would probably have done just as good a job as me, but here it is:

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/Porsgrunn.jpg

Some of the factory will be kept as a museum and shop, though...


edit: since I'm at a computer now, you can also get the links:
http://bygg.no/id/47132
http://www.varden.no/article/20090929/NYHET/227911125/1001/_

Thanks.

Allowing myself to quote a post from another thread. Very good article.

Else from Wednesdays newspapers, I recommend reading this comment made by ex-city council leader Erling Lae. He has some good opinions!:)
http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/debatt/article3296254.ece

Also this one is quite interresting. The number if immigrants in inner city is droping rapidly, while its rising in Groruddalen. http://www.nordstrands-blad.no/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070531/OSNYHETER/105310168/-1/OSTKANTAVISA_FORSIDE

Also this one is quite interresting. The number if immigrants in inner city is droping rapidly, while its rising in Groruddalen.

Shows that there is too little new apartments projects in the inner city, the result is crazy prices too high for foreigners and for workers :ohno:

I would say it is the all the new developments in the area is the main reason for the price raise. Wich I by the way think is good. The area has for decades been run down and now we finally see an improvment. The apartments are now more and more owned by the people who lives there, and not only some jerk who rents it out for the biggest amount of money and don't give a shit about either the neighborhood, the block or the apartment.

I just bought myself an apartment here, so the area is still available even for a poor student.. :lol:

^^A poor student form Bærum, one must ad...

Congrats anyways!;)

Yeah, congrats UL :). Is it in the new part of Hollenderkvartalet?

Nope, from 1894;) The new project here has not been developed yet. But hope they'll get started soon, there are a lot of old buildings the owners don't renovate in case of demolition. Anyone knows more? Can't find any info..

This is btw (as far as I know), the last drawings. http://www.arkitektskap.no/pdf/Hollenderkvartalet.pdf

This is the exact location: http://kart.finn.no/?finnkode=18730697&utmx=263364&utmy=6648955&mapTitle=Hollendergata+6+C%2c+0190+Oslo&mapType=finnvector&showPin=1&WT.svl=rightcol

You would probably have done just as good a job as me, but here it is:

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/Porsgrunn.jpg

Some of the factory will be kept as a museum and shop, though...


edit: since I'm at a computer now, you can also get the links:
http://bygg.no/id/47132
http://www.varden.no/article/20090929/NYHET/227911125/1001/_

Also the south side of the river has big plans. The old shopping center "Downtown" will be replaced by a new mall and appartments, won by danish architects:

https://www.sentergavekort.no/upload/Kj%c3%b8pesenter/DownTown/AKJT_perspektiv-NY.jpg

http://www.kristinejensen.dk/billeder/projekter/porsgrunn/6.jpg

http://www.kristinejensen.dk/billeder/projekter/PORSGRUNN/PORSGRUNN.pdf

http://www.downtownsenter.no/Kjopesentre/DOWN-TOWN/Utviklingsprosjekter/

The richest and poorest post numbers in Oslo. Not surprising, the Holmenkollen area is on top but nice to see that the new urban areas like Tjuvholmen and Aker Brygge is doing very good. Also a bit surprising that not more of the inner city east numbers gets on the poor list, concidering the large amount of students. Also shows the trend that "vestkanten" is going further east, the poor people moves to the suburbs in east and downtown is not anymore the lower class area that it was 20 years ago.

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/oslo/article3356337.ece

A project for urbanising eastern parts of stavanger. See webpage for details and projects.

http://www.ostpluss.no/urban/public/openIndex?ARTICLE_ID=113

Looks really good! A good direction for city development:)

Straume in Sotra might be getting a lightrail system

Siste trafikkidé: Sotrikken

Trikk på Sotra? Kommunestyret tygger på ideen.

http://www.bt.no/nyheter/trafikk/Siste-trafikkid%C3%A9-Sotrikken-966927.html

im pleased to see that the article mentions a possible connection to the Bergen LRS in the future :)

also, i found this under "related articles" (warning: nynosk :ohno: )

Slik skal Straume bli by

Sartor senter skal delast i to av allmenningen mellom Straumsfjellet og fjorden. På kvar side av senteret skal det byggjast ei hovudgate og ein offentleg plass.

http://images.bt.no/btno/multimedia/dynamic/00373/SARTOR_oversikt_MIR_373943c.jpg
ALLMENNING PÅ TVERS: Mellom Straumssundet (det raude punktet til venstre) og Straumsfjellet (det raude punktet til høgre) skal nye Straume sentrum liggja. Ein allmenning skal sno seg gjennom den nye byen, mellom bustadblokker og parkområde (grøne ringar). Sartor senter som ligg mellom dei to beine hovudgatene (dei brune strekane), blir delt i to av allmenningen og to sentrale byrom.

MED BEGEISTRING vedtok Fjell kommunestyre i sommar å byggja by. No startar omforminga av Straume, den komande kystbyen. Eit av prosjekta blir å dela Sartor senter i to.

I lag har byplanleggjarar, politikarar og eigedomsutviklarar i Fjell til og med løyst den gordiske knuten: Korleis greia å innlemma Sartor senter, det svære kjøpesenteret, i ein ny og vellukka sentrumsstruktur? Svaret er at Sartor senter skal delast i to av ein gjennomgåande allmenning på tvers. På begge sider av senteret skal det liggja ein offentleg plass, ein i tilknyting til kvar av dei to hovudgatene i strilebyen, Foldnesvegen og Grønamyrsvegen. Allmenningen skal sno seg vidare mot sørvest og knyta senteret til sjøen.

– Vi kan ikkje riva senteret, det må gjerast om stykkevis og delt. Ombygginga kan ta 10 til 15 år. Vi må heile tida ta omsyn til at kjøpesenteret er i drift. Men vi skal greia det, for vi ser at grunntanken om å skapa offentlege møteplassar er god, seier Ernst Einarsen, eigaren av Sartor Senter og ein av dei to største eigedomsutviklarane på Straume. Den andre heiter Roy-Eddy Lie, eigande og administrerande i Liegruppen.

NO SIT DEI TO ved same bordet på eit møterom i eit kontorbygg i det til no temmeleg tilfeldig tilkomne kommunesenteret.

– Vi er nokså samstemte om at vi vil vera med på å skapa ein ny situasjon, seier Einarsen.

– Eg og Ernst er begge lokale aktørar som ønskjer å skapa ein fin plass med identitet. Vi vil byggja ein by med særpreg, ein plass som er annleis og som vi kan vera stolte av, seier .

Dei to konkurrentane har ikkje alltid vore så rørande samde som dei er i dag. Det har skjedd ting iløpet av prosessen fram til vedtaket som slår fast kva prinsipp som skal gjelda for bybygginga på Litlesotra.

– Då eg såg kva planleggjarane tenkte i starten, hadde eg lyst til å protestera. Men eg har kome til at det er mogelege måtar å løysa dette på, vi skal setja arkitektar på saka. Den Audi-arkitekturen som er teikna til no, blir ikkje bygd, seier Einarsen.

– Vi opplever for tida eit enormt press frå utbyggjarar og andre som vil etablera seg på Straume. Som sentrale grunneigarar er det opp til oss å leggja til rette for den vidare utviklinga her. Passar vi oss ikkje no, kan det lett går her som det gjorde i Åsane. Men vi vil meir enn å fordela areal, vi vil byggja by, seier Roy-Eddy Lie.

Å OMFORMA kommunesenteret Straume til by handlar om transformasjon av ein rimeleg nybygd tettstad. Store bygg frå nyare tid vil måtta rivast og byggjast om for at det skal vera mogeleg å realisera den vedtekne sentrumsplanen som arkitekt og byplanleggjar Hans-Jacob Roald har leia arbeidet med.

Han er glad for samarbeidet med grunneigarane.

– Det ideelle her hadde vore om det var ein eigar av området, men her er det fem store aktørar og to-tre mindre. Det er ei organisatorisk utfordring. Utan ei felles forståing om kvalitet, vil det ikkje vera mogeleg å setja den vedtekne planen ut i livet, seier Roald.

DEI FØRSTE byggjeprosjekta i det nye sentrumsområdet er alt melde inn til kommunen og arbeidet med å laga reguleringsplanar er i gang. Både Lie og Einarsen vil byggja bustader. Planen er byggjestart for dei første i løpet av vinteren.

– Dette er eit einebustadrike, med stort behov for andre buformer. På Straume skal det byggjast bustadblokker rundt Sartor senter. Alt frå unge folk til pensjonistar vil busetja seg her, meiner Roy Eddy Lie. Alt i dag er det eit par tusen arbeidsplassar på staden, mange fleire skal det bli. Kommunikasjonane til Bergen skal betrast ved hjelp av nytt fastlandssamband. I tillegg ligg det i sentrumsplanen for Straume at bybanen skal gå hit.

Ernst Einarsen har invitert dei tre arkitektkontora HLM Arkitektur & Plan, Studio Ludo og danske Schmidt Hammer Lassen til konkurranse om den nye sjøfronten på Straume. Han skal byggja 200-300 bustader, næringsareal og offentlege rom langs sundet sørom dei to bruene mellom Litlesotra og Bildøy. Dei to grunneigarane trur at utviklinga der raskt vil spreia seg over på andre sida av sundet, til Bildøy.

LIEGRUPPEN har store planar på Nordre Bildøy. Der vil dei byggja det dei har kalla for Kystbyen, som blir ei forlenging av Straume i nordvest. Arbeidet med å planleggja denne utbygginga går sin gang, men omforminga av det eksisterande Straume har for tida første prioritet, både i kommunen og hos grunneigarane.

Kommunen si oppgåve er å vera køordnar i eit veldig utviklingspress og å syta for at den nødvendige infrastrukturen som nye vegar og plassar, kjem på plass.

– Å vera planleggjar i Fjell nett no er som å sitja i ein bil som går på autopilot, seier Hans Jacob Roald.

– Det går veldig fort heile tida.

DET ER NO opp til eit nytt kommunestyre å realisera dei planane det tidlegare regimet vedtok. Dei tre rundt møtebordet på Straume er samde om at Straumeplanen vitnar om modige politikarar med vilje til nyskaping.

Den nye ordføraren i Fjell, høgremannen Lars Lie, seier han ser positivt på planane for ei utvikling av og rundt Straume, men at desse må tilpassast planlegginga av det nye fastlandssambandet. Alle komande tiltak som kan tenkja seg å kunna koma i konflikt med komande vegtrasear, vil måtta føreleggjast kommunestyret, seier han.

Planlegginga av det nye og svært nødvendige hovudsambandet til Bergen, er i ein tidleg fase, og det er snakk om å innføra byggje- og delingsforbod langs tenkjelege vegtrasear. Ved avkjørsla til Straume sentrum vil vegsystemet krevja eit spesielt stort område, det blir ei stor utfordring å takla den trafikale situasjonen her, seier ordføraren.

the article dates back to november 07, but im still surprised that i had never heard about it before. seems like there are some pretty big plans for the area!

its great to see that the bergen metro area isnt entirely dead :)

brodeimr posted som info about that some weeks ago with some cool renders. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=496299&page=23

brodeimr posted som info about that some weeks ago with some cool renders. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=496299&page=23

yeah, thats about bildøy, though. my link has additional info about the LRS etc :)

and the "city" i posted information about will be located in straume centre, by the Sartor shopping mall. ;)

bildøy is an island right outside the centre of Straume | Google Maps (http://maps.google.no/maps?q=bild%C3%B8y&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=no&hq=&hnear=Bild%C3%B8yna&t=h&z=14)

5-årig samarbeidsavtale for Buskerudbyen

Kommuner i Nedre Buskerud, fylket og statlige organer går nå sammen om å møte utfordringene knyttet til stadig økende trafikk i regionen.


Fylkesrådmannen i Buskerud, rådmennene i Lier, Drammen, Nedre Eiker, Øvre Eiker og Kongsberg samt Fylkesmannen i Buskerud, Statens vegvesen, Jernbaneverket og Kystverket ble 23.november enige om innholdet i en 5-årig avtale om et areal-, transport- og miljøprosjekt i Buskerudbyen.
Ordførerne og fylkesordføreren har bedt om at forslaget nå legges fram for kommunestyrene og fylkestinget til behandling. Det er ventet endelig vedtak innen årets utgang. Hensikten er å møte utfordringer knyttet til befolkningsvekst og stadig økende trafikk.

Region i vekst

Statistisk Sentralbyrå har anslått veksten i Buskerudbyen til 40.000 nye innbyggere i løpet av bare 20 år. Dette vil om få år kunne gi trafikkaos, køer og stadig større forsinkelser i trafikken. Folks dagligliv og næringslivets verdiskapingsevne forringes som følge av dette.

Kommunene i Buskerudbyen og fylkeskommunen tar ansvar og velger å sette seg rundt samme bord med fylkesmannen og de statlige transportetatene for å møte denne utfordringen.

Hovedoppgavene som skal løses er å
- utarbeide en felles areal og transportplan
- utvikle og gjennomføre en bypakke, dvs. en tiltaksplan for å øke andelen kollektivtrafikk og gang-/sykkeltrafikk.

Tiltakene som skal gjennomføres de første fire årene finansieres av tilskudd fra den statlige belønningsordningen for bedre kollektivtransport og redusert bilbruk.
Framtidige tiltak, det vil si etter 2014, forutsettes finansiert i et samarbeid mellom staten og det regionale/lokale nivået der trafikkantbetaling også kan bli aktuelt.

Trafikantbetaling utredes

Ordførerne mener at spørsmålet om det bør innføres bompenger ikke kan besvares nå. Teknologi og ny kunnskap har åpnet for flere mulige måter for å ta i bruk trafikantbetaling til finansiering av et mer miljøvennlig transportsystem. Dette er komplisert og må utredes.
Samarbeidsprosjektet Buskerudbyen bør bli motoren i en utvikling som skal sikre oss redusert klimagassutslipp, bedre by- og tettstedsmiljøer og bedre forhold for næringslivet, mener ordførerne.
Kort sagt ser ordførerne for seg at dette samarbeidet, som må anses som banebrytende i nasjonal sammenheng, skal utvikle Buskerudbyen til en bære- og konkurransekraftig byregion av nasjonal interesse.

Samsvarer med statlig politikk

Staten vil stimulere til en slik omlegging gjennom tilskudd fra belønningsordningen og gjennom samarbeid om utvikling av ”bypakker”, dvs. helhetlige løsninger for en ”tettere” arealpolitikk og utvikling av et mer kollektiv- og gang/sykkel-vennlig transportsystem.

De fire statlige samarbeidaktørene har allerede gitt sin tilslutning til avtalen. Kommunene og fylkeskommunen vil behandle saken politisk i løpet av desember.

Source: http://www.jernbaneverket.no/no/Nyheter/Nyhetsarkiv/2009/5-arig-samarbeidsavtale-for-Buskerudbyen/

Additional documents:
Buskerudbyen politisk behandling og kontaktpersoner (http://www.jernbaneverket.no/no/dokumenter/nyheter/Nyhetsarkiv/Buskerudbyen-politisk-behandling-og-kontaktpersoner/)
Samarbeidsavtale om Buskerudbyen (http://www.jernbaneverket.no/no/dokumenter/nyheter/Nyhetsarkiv/Samarbeidsavtale-om-Buskerudbyen/)
Underlag for rådmennes felles saksframlegg om Buskerudbyen (http://www.jernbaneverket.no/no/dokumenter/nyheter/Nyhetsarkiv/Underlag-for-radmennes-felles-sakrframlegg-om-Buskerudbyen/)

Giske mener for øvrig også at det settes opp mange bedrøvelige bygg, som regel fordi næringslivet etter hans oppfatning gis anledning til å påvirke stedsutviklingen for mye. Til Aftenposten har Giske uttalt at helhetlig byplanlegging får dårlige kår, dersom ”private aktører får bygge og herje utfra sine kortsiktige profittinteresser”.


http://www.byggaktuelt.no/content.asp?ContentId=145105

[QUOTE=mjoks007;46777171”private aktører får bygge og herje utfra sine kortsiktige profittinteresser”[/QUOTE]

Is that the same "private aktører" he sucks up to every day in his job as Minister of Trade and Industry?

He is right anyhow.

Not sure if this should go here or in the Bergen-thread,as it is a part of the Bergen metro area, but whatever.. Apparently Os wants to become a city.

Nå vil Os bli by

- Vi er store nok, sier Terje Søviknes.
http://images.bt.no/btno/multimedia/dynamic/00613/Finale_8__bfc8e0k11_613156c.jpg
FJORDBYEN: Os Sjøfront - fasaden på det som kanskje skal bli en ny by.

Frp og Høyre går i kommunebudsjettet i for 2010 inn for å søke bystatus for Osøyro. Men først skal det nok krangles litt i kommunen.

- Vi vil synliggjøre Osøyro som et regionsenter for bjørnefjordsområdet, sier Søviknes.

Bygd og by
Frp-ordføreren ser for seg en opphetet debatt om bystatusen.

- Det er jo ikke uproblematisk å søke bystatus, så dette skal bli gjenstand for en god og skikkelig diskusjon. Osingene har alltid knyttet sin identitet til det å komme fra bygden. Oss mot storbyen Bergen.

Søviknes tror det er viktig for den videre utviklingen i kommunen at det legges til rette for urbanisering.

- Vi ligger allerede helt i tetsjiktet når det gjelder folkevekst i Norge, med 400–500 nye innbyggere hvert år.

Motoren
Han mener nye E39, med firefelts motorvei, kan bli motoren som hjelper Osøyro til å bli en småby.

En rapport fra Business Region Bergen pekte nylig ut Osøyro som et naturlig sentrum sør for Bergen. Knarvik (nord) og Straume (vest) ble trukket frem som andre tettsteder med bypotensial.

Frp-ordføreren mener Bergen trenger tyngdepunkter i distriktet.

- Men Knarvik er jo bare et utvidet kjøpesenter og Straume en by som skal bygges fra scratch. Jeg tror Os er bedre egnet til å bli et viktig knutepunkt.

Fjordby
Han nevner også at det finnes praktiske grunner for å søke bystatus.

- På Kyststamvegen mellom Bergen og Stavanger er ikke Os skiltet i hele tatt. Det er til gjengjeld Leirvik, som har bystatus.

Søviknes er opptatt av å bygge opp statusen til kommunen. Derfor skal «Fjordbyen Os» nå lanseres som begrep.

- Utbyggingen av Oseana kunst- og kultursenter og sjøfrontprosjektet med boliger og havn vil gi Osøyro et løft, sier Søviknes.

source: Bergens Tidende (http://www.bt.no/nyheter/lokalt/Naa-vil-Os-bli-by-972243.html#)


Os søker om bystatus

Osøyro mener de er store nok til å bli regnet for by. – Tiden er moden, sier ordfører Terje Søviknes.
http://g.api.no/obscura/www.ba.no/708x708r/02932/1259315098000_Os__Os_yro__Os_sj__2932056708x708r.jpg
Osøyro med innteknet skisse av "Os sjøfront" (2008).

Frp og Høyre kommer til å legge inn i budsjettet sitt for 2010 at Os kommune skal søke om bystatus for tettstedet Osøyro.

FJORD: Søviknes & Co lanserer samtidig begrepet «Fjordbyen Os». Merkevarebyggingen skal være med å bygge opp om statusen til Os.

Søviknes påpeker at det har vært en stor utvikling i tettstedet de siste årene.

Han nevner prosjekter som det kommende kunst- og kultursenteret, og sjøfront-prosjektet som bidrar til å gjøre kommunens sentrum til mer enn bare ett tettsted.

– Vi vurderer at tiden nå er inne for Os å søke bystatus, sier Søviknes.

Han sier alle de formelle kravene som for eksempel innbyggertall er oppfylt.

source: Bergensavisen (http://www.ba.no/nyheter/politikk/article4729252.ece)


IMO i think Os should just be implementet to Bergen instead of trying to become a new city etc.. same goes for Fjell kommune (Sotra) and Askøy.

im not sure, though, as itd be insane to have an even lower population density than what we already have. I think these areas are basically a part of Bergen, and it'd be lame if they tried to become individual cities and drift further away from Bergen. after all, many of the innhabbitants there work here, and many of them are even bergensers!!

Those areas are to us what jersey city is to new york city.. basically just another part of the city, but legally not a part of the city at all.

I dont have a problem with Os becoming more urban, but city status? :nuts: why bother..

Where is the new city their talking about :dunno: Sorry but this project doesn´t qualify to innercity projects.

^^Probably not. It doesn't fit in any thread, really:D

The new city, Straumebyen, you've probably heard of. You are just not that good in connecting projects to names:lol: Try the search-function!:D

I'll give you a hint: http://images.bt.no/btno/multimedia/dynamic/00373/SARTOR_oversikt_MIR_373943c.jpg

No massive plans from these parts., but oh well, here's some new buildings planned and one under construction in the centre of Haugesund, these will help nicely in densifying the core in the long run.

Havnaberg park will fill the parking space left from the old police station right next to it. Edda terrase will as far as i understand, tear down some old crappy houses.
Edda Terasse, not very promising, it's got balconies facing the street.. :(
http://cache.finn.no/mmo/1/198/365/91_2072633992.jpg
http://cache.finn.no/mmo/1/198/365/91_469691215.jpg
this is the lot where it will be built
http://cache.finn.no/mmo/1/198/365/91_-1903298013.jpg
This is the view which will be from the top floor. facing northwest.
http://cache.finn.no/mmo/1/198/365/91_-1413224444.jpg
Same but this time facing west.
http://cache.finn.no/mmo/1/198/365/91_2052386434.jpg


Havnaberg Park
This project is already well underway, Bygg B is topped out, bygg A is not topped out just yet, but reached it's 2nd floor.
http://cache.finn.no/mmo/0/124/152/70_59166388.jpg
http://cache.finn.no/mmo/0/124/152/70_670692161.jpg
http://cache.finn.no/mmo/0/124/152/70_1854400582.jpg
Bygg B
http://cache.finn.no/mmo/0/124/152/70_-1968245438.jpg
You can just see Bygg B in this pic from finn, from another building's page.
http://cache.finn.no/mmo/6/195/078/56_1835197067.jpg

Here's a pic i snapped from gulesider.no

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss240/GlennR-91/blahrgh1.jpg

A:
the former building has been torn down since this aerial.6 floor hotel being built as we speak, last time i checked it was almost topped out.
B:
Havnaberg Park
already well under construction.

C:
Edda Terasse, approved, but not under construction.

D:
These buildings have been torn down, one burned down in an arson. hotels/næringsbygg planned and approved but the developer put it in hold for now. Big empty lot stands there now.

^^Probably not. It doesn't fit in any thread, really:D

The new city, Straumebyen, you've probably heard of. You are just not that good in connecting projects to names:lol: Try the search-function!:D

I'll give you a hint: http://images.bt.no/btno/multimedia/dynamic/00373/SARTOR_oversikt_MIR_373943c.jpg

what are you talking about?

are you sure youre not mixing Os with Sotra?

IMO i think Os should just be implementet to Bergen instead of trying to become a new city etc.. same goes for Fjell kommune (Sotra) and Askøy.


I think it's way to early for that. Maybe sometime in the future when the population reaches 30-40.000. I'm sure there will be a lot of development along the new road to Bergen.
Askøy are probably the most natural pick and they are growing pretty fast with allmost double the population of Os and they are closer to the city. But i bet it will take more than 20 years for even them to decide on such a step.

It's always hard to find threads fitted for such news, but I'll put it here eitherway, as it affects urban developments:

Navarsete vil kjempe mot strandsonevern

Sp-leder og kommunalminister Liv Signe Navarsete krever kraftige endringer i sin egen regjerings forslag til strandsonelov.


Av: NTB | Publisert: 02.12.2009 06:33 | Sist endret: 02.12.2009 06:33
– Vestlandet består jo stort sett bare av strandsone og fjell. Skal en ikke få bruke dette, er det ikke mye igjen, sier Navarsete til Bergens Tidende.

I forslaget som ble sendt ut på høring i sommer, legges det opp til at en lang rekke kystkommuner, blant dem mange i Hordaland, skal følge de samme strenge prinsippene som gjelder for Oslofjord-regionen.

Navarsete er klar og tydelig på at hun ikke vil godta forslaget slik det foreligger.

– Utkastet må endres. Det er helt klart. Vi må gjøre det for å unngå konfliktsaker langs hele kysten, sier hun.

http://bygg.no/id/48760

Why is this suddenly more of a problem in Vestlandet than Oslofjorden?:ohno: Is there less pressure on the coastline here? My opinion is also that private people shouldn't be allowed to buy private palaces at the coastline, and fence themselves in, but I see how this law clearly busts projects that would've been for the good for the public and neighborhoods close to the sea.

About the Carlsberg new development (http://www.byggaktuelt.no/content.asp?ContentId=150127) and their new way to make a modern and intimate part of a city. Quite interesting, hope many architects pays attention to this. Niels Torp is obviously very enthusiastic.

Sartor bygger ut for 1,4 milliarder

Sartor Senter skal vokse videre - og nå i høyden. Milliardprosjektet omfatter både butikker og boliger. Planene oversendes Fjell kommune i løpet av januar. Målet er å starte byggearbeidene i år.

http://images.bt.no/btno/multimedia/dynamic/00622/sartor_jpg_622742c.jpg

Planene breier seg over nærmere 90.000 kvadratmeter. All parkering skal flyttes under tak. Nybygget som er planlagt midt i senterkomplekset, vil strekke seg over seks etasjer - regnet fra nederste parkering til øverste leilighet/kontor.

- Hva blir prislappen?

- Du kan gange antall kvadratmeter med ca. 15.000 kroner, sier eiendomsdirektør Ernst M. Einarsen i Sartor Holding AS.

Kalkulatoren vår stopper på vel 1,4 milliarder kroner.

- Kvadratmeterprisen er noe høyere for boligene enn for næringsdelen. Vi har leietakere som står klare til å flytte inn i næringsarealene når alt forhåpentlig står ferdig i 2012/2013, sier Einarsen.

Engelsk inspirasjon
Den bærende ideen for den sjette utbyggingen på Straume er en kombinasjon av sentervekst og moderne byutvikling. Kjøpesenteret har fått mye pepper og lite ros for utseendet. Eierne la om kursen da de bygde det som i dag kalles for Sotratrappo, et elegant trappeanlegg ved en av inngangene. Det vil inngå i den nye Festplassen.

Sartor Holding AS har hele tiden hatt tett dialog med Fjell kommune etter hvert som dristige vyer er blitt til konkrete planer for sjette etappe. Det er hentet kunnskap og inspirasjon fra blant annet Birmingham i England.

Bærekraftig senter- Vi skal være lengst fremme i Norge på det å tenke nytt om kjøpesenter. Derfor kommer bærekraftig utvikling tungt inn i planene, og vi knytter til oss en landskapsarkitekt. Straume har utviklet seg til et regiontettsted for rundt 30.000 mennesker. Det må vi ta hensyn til, sier Einarsen.

Det ble foretatt et generasjonsskifte for noen år siden i Sartor Holding AS. Nå eier familiene Einarsen og Rennedal 50 prosent hver. John Einarsen er nå administrerende direktør og Erik Rennedal er styreleder. Begge har vært med fra starten av, men gründerne har solgt seg ut av butikkene.

- Vi må forbedre oss hele tiden for det er beinhard konkurranse om senterkundene i vårt nedslagsfelt, sier John Einarsen. Han vet at strilene har kort vei over Sotrabrua til Vestkanten i Loddefjord og til Kleppestø Senter.

Korte kommandolinjer
Tallene fra senterleder Marianne Cristi Nyborg viser at Sartor Storsenter greier seg. I fjor nådde omsetningen 1,85 milliarder kroner, en vekst på 4 prosent.

Nyborg har lang fartstid fra andre kjøpesenter i Bergensregionen. Hun mener noe av forklaringen på suksessen ligger i kort avstand mellom drivere og eiere. Det gir kjappe beslutningsprosesser, og stimulerer samhandlingen innenfor senterveggene.

- Det er en bevisst politikk hos oss at butikkene skal henvise til andre i senteret hvis de selv ikke kan hjelpe en kunde, sier Nyborg.

- Vi kjører faste møter der alle butikkene er med, enten med eierne selv eller en av de ansatte. Det kjøres felles kurs i alt fra kildesortering til kundebehandling. Hvis medarbeiderne trives, vil også kundene merke det, sier Nyborg som oppdaterer seg på dette felt via jevnlige kundeundersøkelser.

Stor arbeidsplass
Fjell kommune har vokst så det har smertet, og har nå rundt 22.000 innbyggere. Gründerne Einarsen og Rennedal medgir at Sartor har fått denne utviklingen i fanget.

- Utviklingen har vært enorm siden vi begynte i lyngrabbene med et senter på 4500 kvadratmeter, og nå er det skapt rundt 1200 arbeidsplasser her, sier Einarsen.

Kundeundersøkelsene sier at innpå halvparten av kundene kommer fra fastlandet.

- Utarmer dere Bergen og sentrumshandelen?

- Hvis handelstilbudet er godt nok, vil byen alltid hevde seg. Bergen har kulturopplevelser vi aldri kan konkurrere med, sier Ernst M. Einarsen.

- Bykjernen får en annen funksjon, og sentrum må ta et oppgjør med seg selv om hva de vil være, kanskje enes om felles åpningstider, sier John Einarsen.


Fakta om Sartor Storsenter

* Omsetning i 2009 – 1,85 milliarder kroner.
* Økning vel 4 prosent, eller 70 mill. kroner. Desemberhandelen utgjorde 240 mill. kroner.
* OBS! Hypermarked er tungvekteren og svarer for knappe 20 prosent av senterets omsetning.
* Senteret har 112 butikker.
* Mål for 2010 er å øke med 100 mill. kroner.
* Besøkes gjennomsnittlig av 20.000 mennesker pr. dag, eller ca. 4 mill pr. år, ifølge senterets telleapparat.
* Sartor Holding AS eier 71 % av butikkarealet, Olav E. Thon eier 29 %.

source: http://www.bt.no/nyheter/lokalt/Sartor-bygger-ut-for-1%2C4-milliarder-1003341.html

Rypefjord Marina
Hammerfest

http://www.origo.as/uploads/images/Rypefjord_fra%20molo.jpg

Prosjekttype: Regulering og utvikling/prosjektering bolig
Oppdragsgiver: Rypefjord Marina as
Ferdigstillt: 1. Byggetrinn 201
Størrelse: ca. 100 daa

Planområdet ligger i Rypefjord i Hammerfest kommune, og prosjektet omfatter ca. 150-200 boenheter. 1 byggetrinn ca. 30 enheter. Planen inneholder bl.a fire ulike hustyper med bolig, barnehage, nærbutikk, båtplasser, offentlig 'almenning', strandpromenade og kaifront. Fellesareal er utformet som et gjennomgående grøntdrag mellom boligene med tilgang til havet mot sør og øvrig bebyggelse mot nord. Plasseringen av byggene i forhold til hverandre skaper flere gode 'tunrom'. Utformingen og plasseringen av byggene gjør at 'tunene' ligger beskyttet for vind og har gode solforhold. Bebyggelsen foreslås gitt en modernistisk utforming med røtter i eksisterende bygningstypologier langs kysten.

http://www.origo.as/uploads/images/Rypefjord_fyrt%C3%A5rn%202%20copy.jpg


Origo arkitektgruppe (http://www.origo.as/index.php?page=informasjon-2)

Very nice finds Cor :)

Winners and runner ups from this years Europan can be found here:
http://www.norskform.no/default.asp?V_ITEM_ID=2743

The plots in question are:
Oslo - Commieblock centre of Haugerud.
Trondhiem - Building a new nabourhood at the old harbour site Nyhavna.
Vardø - Small town with urgent depopulating.

I morgen, onsdag 10.mars kl.20:45 går det en debatt på NRK2 med følgende beskrivelse:

Norske byer og tettsteder er sjelden vakre. Spekter ser på om det er næringsinteresser, sløve politikere eller et folk uten estetisk sans som gjør at stedene vi bor på er så stygge. Hvem bestemmer hva som er stygt eller pent?

Jeg vil gjerne oppfordre til å se debatten, og muligens ta opp tråden i etterkant. Personlig har jeg noen teorier om hvorfor det har blitt slik...Men det kan man jo ta etterhvert.

essenze, im afraid that crashes with the season premiere of LOST..

i dont see any other suiting thread for this project.

Høyhus på Leirvik
http://images.bt.no/btno/multimedia/dynamic/00634/evje_jpg_634359c.jpg

STRIDENS KJERNE: Slik er bygget i Evjestrand ved gjestehamna på Leirvik tenkt. Det er den øvste tilbaketrekte etasjen som skapar strid. I tillegg krev utbygginga inntil fem meter utfylling i sjøen.

SOURCE: http://www.bt.no/forbruker/husoghjem/Ordfoerar-i-ny-eigedomsstrid-1044179.html

not sure if id call it a høyhus, but yeah...

^^ i Norge er ikke høyhus betydningen på et høyt bygg, men stygge bygg virker det som...

jeg tror ordet du leter etter er "moderne", men det går vel for det samme for de som styrer dette landet virker det som.

^^ nei, alt som er moderne er stygt ifølge de fleste aviser!

^ It looks to be about the same height as it's nabours :nuts:

det kan da virke som at de som har som jobb å godkjenne alle nye bygg også synes dette.. norge er et ekstremt nimby land, og det finnes veldig få spenndene prosjekter i forhold til hvordan det kunne vært.

@ingeniøren: exactly.. they just hate everything that doesnt look likes its from the 1800s.. ah, hater hvordan det virker som at så mange folk tar kvelertak på utviklingen av dette landet. det er en grusom sannhet.

Folk har for høye forventninger, vi er jo en gjeng bønder:D

Ja men ka vil dei ha da? Lom?
Mær konservativt på utseende enn Lom ska du leita lenge ette.
Det e vel det sånne NIMBY folk vil at Oslo ska se ut som... :bash:

Se på detta då, haha til og med lyktestolpene e jo faen meg brune/røe :lol:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4008/4320031173_cebd685a7e_o.jpg

Lom ble dratt opp som et eksempel på bra byggepolitikk i Spekter-programmet på NRK3 sist onsdag (og sammenlignet med det sammenraskede virvaret man finner i andre tettsteder / landsbyer rundt omkring i Norge kan man være tilbøyelig til å være enig). De har 2 krav der: Det skal bygges med skråtak og ha en jordfarge. Vel.. men de har i det minste et slags særpreg..

One can say a lot about Byen.org and their crucade towards modern architecture, but their ideal of a closely built towns where the car has little space! - I couldn't agree more :)
http://www.byen.org/byplan.html

Järla Sjö looks good i think - are Byen.org leaning towards accepting more modern looking buildings? :shocked:

I think what Lom does is a good idea, 2 principles - sloping roofs and earth-colour - simple to work with and a security towards getting a Rema-box, however variations in facades is also important for a place to look good - most important in my opinion is well-defined cityscape with squares/parks and narrow street-corridors between them :) Lom still has all those parking-spaces and hulter til bulter location of buildings.

That's the thing with Lom, it looks a like a cross between Suburbia meets East Norway and frankly it looks downright stupid...

Is that what we want? i'm all for densification of urban areas and small towns, but being 100% one style of building is just wrong, i mean what's wrong with a little variety?

One can say a lot about Byen.org and their crucade towards modern architecture, but their ideal of a closely built towns where the car has little space! - I couldn't agree more :)
http://www.byen.org/byplan.html

Järla Sjö looks good i think - are Byen.org leaning towards accepting more modern looking buildings? :shocked:


Ive agreed very much with their way of thinking all the time. They are obviously engaged for urbanism. And I dont think they are against modern architecture eighter. Arne sødal did draw a alternative to barcode (as you probably saw in Spekter) with modern architecture which byen fornyelse did back up. But heights and extreme density doenst seems to be their cup of tea(!)

Funny to see the nimbybastards in Evje in the Spekterprogram btw :lol:

I always thought their proposal for Filipstad was pretty good, if only the architecture had been updated a little bit. But what really matters is what they think about urban planning, not how buildings look. I'd rather have close quarters and old fashioned buildings than modern commieblocks.

They are obviously engaged for urbanism.

Kvasi-urban, at best. To me they to small-scale, and they're solutions mostly are utopic, and hardly doable in actual city-planing. This goes for instance on the Oslo S covering, and that stupid Coloseum-torg thingy where they've blown up KPMG-bygget, and used a magic wand on Rv168.
they also speak warmly on that copy-Sørlandsby they've made close to Kragerø, which to me shows some of the worst concepts I can think of when it comes to city development and architecture. Sorry to say, but the small and VERY hidden postive sides of Byens fornyelse (BF) ALWAYS are overshadowed by theire NIMBY-ness and anti-development and -modernity stands.

Järla Sjö seems both too high density and too funkis to be for BF. A schocker!:eek: I still didn't like the project, though. (mostly because BF did:D)

I also don't like Lom. The worst thing one can do to a city/town, is to preserve it. Preserved architecture belongs in museums, and I guess that is also where Lom will end up if they can't adapt to modern times. I agreed with the architect at Spekter-program, then.:)

Funny to see the nimbybastards in Evje in the Spekterprogram btw :lol:

To me it seemed the NIMBYs were on both sides. On one side we had this gang of idealist who dreamt of green areas where there were no people to use them, and they wanted to make it practicly impossible for people living more than walking distance away to get there. On the other side, you had people who thought the car was the answer to all our prayers, and that if you don't have/like a car, you don't belong in Evje. Bigger parking lots = bigger profits.
I guess they both needed a reality check, and should've sat down and developed something together.

A poll has been made in 13 cities around Norway rating the cities for their effort in environmently friendly development and rating how important different types of environmental development is:
http://www.yimby.no/forum/thread.aspx?id=55#fp268

Here's a new restaurant, conference centre, and new Vantage point to the already existing Steinsfjellet park in Haugesund.

the TV-mast is already there the new bit is the building.

http://www.h-avis.no/polopoly_fs/forslag-1.4999931!image/678463224.jpg_gen/derivatives/derivative_780/678463224.jpg?modified=1268774615000

what would be the views:

http://www.haugalandet.net/haugesund_steinsfjellutsikt.jpg

large pano (http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/27322344.jpg)

A poll has been made in 13 cities around Norway rating the cities for their effort in environmently friendly development and rating how important different types of environmental development is:
http://www.yimby.no/forum/thread.aspx?id=55#fp268

I can not avoid to comment on one of the statements in this "report". Quote: "Trondheim is the city where most people are satisfied with the council's priorities for bus lanes". Quote end. This does NOT mean that people actually are happy with this. And it does NOT mean that it's in any way a good decision. In fact it's the total opposite, a pointless and idiotic demonstration of symbol politics. It's only led to more congestion and more pollution. Bear in mind that the so-called "Fremtidens Byer" is a government funded project, aimed at reducing climate gas emissions. They have "ordered" this poll, and make no mistake: when a government service order an inquiry, they get what they want, which is of course to appear to have public opinion supporting them.

Moldes new Jazzhouse starts construction during the summer:

http://www.rosand.no/images/StandardImage/jazz1.jpg

http://www.rosand.no/news/jazz--

More renders from the architect: http://www.3xn.dk/

A positive article about Haugesund, and how central town area has actually grown, rather than decreasing.
I'm not bragging, i'm just proud of the past development of my hometown, it's been down but the past years it has grown, it's gotten more diverse and sort of grown up :)
http://www.h-avis.no/polopoly_fs/kart-sentrum-1.5022013!image/4083430913.jpg_gen/derivatives/derivative_780/4083430913.jpg?modified=1269383799000

http://www.h-avis.no/puls/alle-vil-til-sentrum-1.5021892

A positive article about Haugesund, and how central town area has actually grown, rather than decreasing.
I'm not bragging, i'm just proud of the past development of my hometown, it's been down but the past years it has grown, it's gotten more diverse and sort of grown up :)
http://www.h-avis.no/polopoly_fs/kart-sentrum-1.5022013!image/4083430913.jpg_gen/derivatives/derivative_780/4083430913.jpg?modified=1269383799000

http://www.h-avis.no/puls/alle-vil-til-sentrum-1.5021892

Interresting. What kind of people lives here, and how is the areas reputation? (Poor, immigrants, students, rich, singles, families) Please keep us updated when the publish the following articles in the series.

Will do, Haugesund Sentrum is a mix really, you got poor people, the rich people in penthouses, and in old villas, and quite a lot of regular people.

As for the reputation, ok, you got the mainland, and then you got those two islands, Risøy (right) is known for being industrial, and rather a home of "trygdeklientell" though it has improved, Left, that will be Hasseløy, is more or less the same, but it has also been a classic residential district, and it has remained mostly the same.

The core itself on the mainland is varied, in the north (left on that map) you got some villas, and a slightly immigrantish area called hauge, in the inner core itself it's a bit varied, East (up) is a bit empty, few shops, more living quarter, and in the recent years more of an immigrant area but it's not run down, and it's not dominated much by any group of people, West (down) is often fancier, but also some run down buildings. Quite a lot of penthouses, and in recent years apartment buildings in the town. There's a few independant shops (i.e) not in bigger chains, immigrants shops like Vietnamese and Middle East have the past decade sprung up. South is "soss"

That being said i won't show Haraldsgaten as that is just a typical cliche area.
Starting from Northern edge of the centre:

Hauge:
Villas, quiet streets
http://home.online.no/~knhauske/Haugesund/Hauge/2006-08-04%20Dronning%20Gydas%20Gate%2003.jpg

The maindrag through Hauge, it's a bit dead of lately, just ONE shop left.
http://home.online.no/~knhauske/Haugesund/Hauge/2006-08-04%20Haugeveien%2001.jpg

Sentrum with the streets closest to the sea:

http://haugalandet.net/2009Mar23-Strandgt_4268.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/Glenni91/BAT%20pics/Strandgata.jpg

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss240/GlennR-91/Haugesund/haugesund3.jpg

Typical Risøy street:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/Glenni91/BAT%20pics/blah/moomoo/haugesund1.jpg
Risøy from the bridge to the island:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j179/Glenni91/BAT%20pics/blah/moomoo/picre5.jpg

Hasseløy is pretty much the same, but less industry (some old herring canning left, but not much), you can also find some quite charming cobble streets left:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/105/303539561_bf0064d653.jpg?v=0

East, slightly run down in some buildings, but nothing too serious, a few gaps from buildings been torn down.
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss240/GlennR-91/Hgsd-gs1.jpg
http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss240/GlennR-91/Hgsd-gs2.jpg
South you got even bigger Villas, from rich shipowners and stuff
http://www.haugalandet.net/aprvsalh.jpg

i hope that clears thing up, to help you know the town more.

Here we go again. NRK launches another debate about "Norway's ugliest building", and only manages to look at the iconic buildings of our cities.:ohno:
"Gud og Hverman" of course jumps on, and starts yabbering about tastelessness, the evil developers and the binded politicians. When will these truth-benders ever stop?!:bash:

This article started it all, and is apparantly the first in a series:
http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/kultur/1.7102386

Mentioned buildings are Rica Seilet (the most beautiful highrise in the country), Postbygget/Oslo Plaza (most publicly known icons of any Norwegian city), Stavanger swimming hall (IMO greatest example of brutalist architecture in Norway).

Of course they had to drag up this load of BS puked out from "architect" Peter Butenschøn from March: http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/kultur/1.7031999

Apparantly, Butenshcøn is part of a jury, to decide which building is Norway's ugliest. And that can only be a terrible choice, considering some of his remarks.

Butenschøn says, amongst other statements, that PGB/Plaza "–er store objekter plassert tilfeldig, uten tanke for hva de gjør med byrommet.". Poor guy probably has never been to Biskop Gunnerus gate/Schweigaards gate, where Postbygget actually is the most functional building in a kilometer radius, and actually offers something back to the street in form of an open square and a cafe with outdoors serving at summer. One get drawn from reality, if one only stay inside ones own head...

And about Rica Seilet, he says " Plasseringen i naturen er horribel. Bygget konkurrerer med Romsdalsalpene og henger bare der som en kald mastodont". Personally I have never seen similar successfull attempts to create a building gliding into the surroundings, considering the building basicly functions as a giant mirror...

Oh, god, how shall we work to make this a good thing?! And does really the Norwegian people want some American solution of cheap copying of far gone styles on new houses, as some bad kitchy modell of old Oslo?

And does really the Norwegian people want some American solution of cheap copying of far gone styles on new houses, as some bad kitchy modell of old Oslo?

Yep. :lol: Some people anyways.

I think these two comments from the article sum up why the competition can be both a good thing and a bad thing:

Tenk så mange som ble glade for svømmehallen da den var ny. Tenk på alle som kunne tenkt seg en svømmehall og gå til, men ikke har noen. (About Stavanger Svømmehall)

Jeg vil nominere etthvert bygdesentrum i hele Norge. I ver eneste tettsted/bygd du kommer til er det jo helt malplasserte byggeklosser ssom er satt ned på måfå

If we're lucky, it will create some focus on all the terrible small town centres around the country, someting that really is a problem. If not then it will create more focus on why "ugly" buildings "should" be demolished just because they're "ugly", even though they might be fully functional.

Mye mer enn arkitektur (http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/debatt/article3642184.ece)

Mye mer enn arkitektur (http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/debatt/article3642184.ece)


Might as well post the whole thing here. That's a very good article.


Mye mer enn arkitektur

Per Gunnar Røe, førsteamanuensis, Institutt for sosiologi og samfunns geografi, Universitetet i Oslo og Ragnhild Skogheim, forsker, Norsk institutt for by- og regionforskning

De som har ansvar for byplanleggingen bør være mindre opptatt av at byen utvikles på utbyggeres og de byggende profesjoners premisser, og mer opptatt av allmenne samfunnshensyn.

Byutvikling skaper debatt. Det gjelder særlig større prosjekter, som utbyggingen i Bjørvika i Oslo. Mens byplanleggingen for noen tiår siden først og fremst var de offentlig ansatte byplanleggernes og arkitektenes domene, formes byen i dag gjennom kompliserte beslutningsprosesser som involverer mange aktører med varierende ståsted og interesser.

Ideelt sett vil dette føre til at mange sider ved et byutviklingsprosjekt belyses. Likevel har debatten om Bjørvika, og byplanmyndighetenes tilnærminger, først og fremst handlet om fysiske og arkitektoniske aspekter og overordnede byplangrep, mens de sosiale og kulturelle sidene ved byutviklingen har fått liten plass.

Levende og mangfoldig
Spørsmål som i liten grad berøres, er om Bjørvika blir så levende og mangfoldig som byplanmyndighetene hevder, eller om det primært blir en fremvisning av internasjonal arkitektur, med boligprosjekter utenfor store befolkningsgruppers økonomiske rekkevidde. Byutvikling handler om å skape attraktive byer for byens befolkning og besøkende, der design og estetikk er én av flere dimensjoner ved byens kvaliteter.

I arkitekturmagasiner og en del andre medier fremstilles ofte byarkitektur og byform som en del av kunstfeltet. Interessene og opplevelsene til byens innbyggere og andre som daglig befolker byrommet, skyves i bakgrunnen til fordel for en forståelse av arkitektur og enkeltbygninger som mer eller mindre selvstendige (kunst)verk, der originalitet og nyskapende grep har en dominerende plass.

Kritisk vurdering av de sosiale sidene ved det som planlegges og bygges kommer ofte ikke til uttrykk. Dette gjelder ikke minst når arkitektprofesjonens helter presenteres. Mye av arkitektur- og byutviklingsjournalistikken foregår i stor grad på arkitekters og utbyggeres premisser, med liten distanse til feltet. Byens liv og borgernes interesser overskygges bokstavelig talt av dominerende bygningsformer.

Når bydebatter gjøres til kunst- og formdebatter, dukker det for eksempel opp argumenter som handler om at bygninger «snakker» med hverandre. Metaforen kan riktignok illustrere et ønske om å skape arkitektonisk sammenheng i byrommet, men det uttrykker samtidig et reduksjonistisk syn på byutviklingen.

Allmenn kompetanse?
Det er få fasitsvar i byutviklingen, og ingen enkeltprofesjon, hverken byplanleggere, arkitekter, samfunnsvitere eller andre fagfolk, kan alene påberope seg allmenn kompetanse i spørsmål om hva som er en god by og god byutvikling. Fysiske planleggere og arkitekter har selvfølgelig sine oppgaver når det gjelder byens tekniske og formale utforming, men sosiale aspekter ved byens utvikling har planleggere og arkitekter tradisjonelt langt mindre kompetanse til å vurdere.

Begrunne valg
Økt engasjement i byutviklingsspørsmål stiller altså økte krav til byutviklingsaktørene når det gjelder å begrunne valg av løsninger og se ut over interne fagdiskusjoner. Argumenter om at bygninger må se akkurat slik eller sånn ut, kan imøtegås ved at arkitektur tilhører smaksfeltet, der også arkitekter er uenige seg imellom, i tillegg til at arkitekters oppfatning av hva som er god arkitektur også kan divergere med befolkningens syn. Dermed kan man ikke uten videre slutte fra arkitekters faglige vurderinger til hva som er en god by for hele befolkningen.

Siden byutvikling angår folks livsverden, kan hver især anse seg som meningsberettiget. Samtidig gjør sentrale byutviklingsaktører i liten grad bruk av den omfattende forskningsbaserte kunnskapen om hvordan ulike mennesker bruker og opplever byen.

Planleggerne vet nok ikke hva som oppleves som byens «atmosfære» og om de nye byrommene som skal skapes, legger til rette for innbyggernes mangfoldige krav til meningsfylte hverdager og helger.

Sosiale og kulturelle forhold
De sentrale spørsmålene i byutviklingen dreier seg etter vår oppfatning ikke bare om tekniske og formale løsninger, men også om sosiale og kulturelle forhold. Det betyr at det bør stilles andre spørsmål enn dem som har preget byplanleggingen i Norge de siste tiårene, som for eksempel hva større utbyggingsprosjekter vil bety for dem som blir boende i området rundt den nye bebyggelsen. Man må spørre seg hva som går tapt når områder fortettes kraftig. Kompenseres det ved at nye kvaliteter tilføres?

Faglig grundig vurdering, kritikk og analyser av arkitektur og større byggeprosjekter, som kaster lys over de sosiale aspektene, er en mangelvare i norsk byplanlegging. Men det finnes eksempler på at dette er mulig. I Vancouver har man i de siste årene sett en analytisk og samfunnsorientert byplanlegging som både myndigheter og byforskere har oppfattet som vellykket.

Utbyggers premisser
Vårt hovedpoeng er at de som har et overordnet ansvar for byplanleggingen bør være mindre opptatt av at byen utvikles på utbyggeres og de byggende profesjoners premisser, og mer opptatt av allmenne samfunnshensyn.

Å bygge er ikke svaret på alle byutviklingsspørsmål. Oppmerksomheten må rettes mot hvordan bygninger inngår i bylandskapet og hvilke sosiale konsekvenser og muligheter endringene kan gi. Man må få mer kunnskap om hvordan byen oppleves og brukes av dem som lever sitt liv der, for eksempel hva som er en god by og gode omgivelseskvaliteter for ulike befolkningskategorier. Det betyr blant annet at man må ta i bruk det som finnes av forskning innenfor fag som miljøpsykologi, samfunnsgeografi og sosiologi.

Da kan man komme tilbake til det som må være byplanleggingens grunnleggende ambisjon: Å skape en velfungerende og attraktiv by for alle, på demokratisk vis.


It's true what he says, how a building looks depends on taste, but how people use a building and relate to it every day is more objective. Cityplanners should really focus more on the latter. Just look at the new National Museum. Price, how the museum works, and how it looks was part of the descision, but how it will work in the "bybilde" wasn't as important.

New policy in Stavanger?

«Stavanger bygger boliger for tett»
I perioden 2006–2009 er hele 90 prosent av nye boliger i Stavanger kommet innenfor allerede bebygde områder.
Slik kan det ikke fortsette, mener kommuneplanleggerne.

- Vi skal fortsatt bo tett, men ikke så tett at det går på bekostning av bokvaliteten, sa Stavangers ferske kommuneplansjef
Gunn Jorunn Aasland da hun i dag presenterte forslaget til ny kommuneplan 2010–2025 «Sammen for en levende by» for
byens viktigste politikere med ordføreren i spissen.

Administrasjonen anbefaler at ikke mer enn 70 prosent av nye boliger i Stavanger bør bygges innenfor eksisterende
bystruktur framover.

Ingen nye boligfelt
Kommuneplanleggerne har ikke funnet det hensiktsmessig å foreslå noen nye, store boligutbyggingsområder i Stavanger.
Men et par mindre boligfelt er lagt inn blant annet på Austre Åmøy.

Heller ikke større, nye næringsområder er merket av på det nye plankartet fra rådmannens stab.

Ordfører Leif Johan Sevland (H) stilte spørsmål ved dette under presentasjonen.

– Mener dere at det holder med de bolig- og næringsområdene som alt er planlagt? Og dere vil redusere
fortettingen og spurte Sevland. Prosjektleder Marit S. Storli svarte ja på begge spørsmålene.

I snitt må 850 boliger bygges i Stavanger i planperioden for å holde tritt med befolkningsutviklingen. I 2025
har Stavanger rundt 150. 000 innbyggere, ifølge planleggerne.

Bygge og bo
Rådmann Inger Østensjø fortalte at kommuneplanen for første gang har en «samfunnsdel» som skal si noe om
utviklingen av Stavangersamfunnet, i tillegg til den mer tradisjonelle arealforvaltningsdelen.

- Vi er spent på debatten som kommer nå når planen blir kjent, sa Østensjø.

Politikerne vil ha planen til behandling første gang 1. juni. Den legges ut på høring med frist 15. oktober for dem
som har endringsforslag. Endelig plan blir vedtatt først i januar 2011.

De tre viktigste elementene i kommuneplanen er:

*Barn og unge

*Den urbane byen

*Ny kunnskap og ny næring.

Byplanleggerne mener Stavangers utvikling må styres med fast hånd hvis blant annet ambisiøse miljømål skal nås i
perioden. Utbyggingen skal i mest mulig grad skje i tilknytning til kollektivtraseene, og det vil bli langt ytterligere
begrensninger på parkeringsmulighetene i disse områdene.

- Vi vil ha en grønn, vakker by med høy tetthet og gode levekår. Mer tetthet av boliger og næringsbygg langs
hovedkolletivtraseene og redusert transportbehov, sier Storli.

http://www.aftenbladet.no/lokalt/stavanger/1206527/laquoStavanger_bygger_boliger_for_tettraquo.html

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Skyscrapercity/AAAAA1100.jpg

^^:lol::lol: What now, they're going to start on landfills in the sea, Dubai style?!

^^There is a lot of fields left :banana:

Its not like they are gonna touch any of the villas.

The little fields they have should be kept, at least as free areas. If I remember correctly, more than 50 % of Stavanger municipal is built up, and that's to high already. The only way to make way for growth is densification. Forus and the coastline points out as clear areas for new/better use. But please, just start on the villa areas too, and show way for other cities in Norway!

New policy in Stavanger?

«Stavanger bygger boliger for tett»
I perioden 2006–2009 er hele 90 prosent av nye boliger i Stavanger kommet innenfor allerede bebygde områder.
Slik kan det ikke fortsette, mener kommuneplanleggerne.



De tre viktigste elementene i kommuneplanen er:

*Barn og unge

*Den urbane byen

*Ny kunnskap og ny næring.


That adds up nicely. :nuts:

^^:lol::lol: What now, they're going to start on landfills in the sea, Dubai style?!

Hopefully something good will come of it. The process of merging the neighbour municipalities can get accelerated.

http://http://www.rogalandsavis.no/nyheter/article5119568.ece (http://www.rogalandsavis.no/nyheter/article5119568.ece)

i dont get it.. there is no such thing as "too dense", is there?

i mean, maybe those walled cities that could be found in hong kong some years ago were a little bit over the top..

but come on, look at hong kong today and pretty much all other major cities, for that matter.. if those eneboliger in stavanger are called too dense, im gonna join kiwibob on this one and say that norway sucks :lol:

but seriously, how is stavanger too dense? i just cant begin to imagine how this is possible.. i could never in my life even think that this would ever become a problem in any norwegian city. it just doesnt add up in my head. why is it that they want to make stavanger less dense? could someone please enlighten me?

im quite confused.

Hopefully something good will come of it. The process of merging the neighbour municipalities can get accelerated.

http://http://www.rogalandsavis.no/nyheter/article5119568.ece (http://www.rogalandsavis.no/nyheter/article5119568.ece)

does anyone have a picture of what this big commune (?) would look like on a map? Also, how many people would live there? i need this information before i can make up my mind about what id like it to be called..

if they decided to call it stavanger, would this mean that the entire city of stavanger would be expanded into this (like bergen which is basically the same as bergen commune)? or would the city of stavanger lie inside the commune of stavanger, together with all the other, independent, cities?

to be honest, I think Sandnes and those other small places located around Stavanger should all be implemented to stavanger.. i also think the same about bergen.. askøy, os, fjell (+ øygarden and sund) are practically a part of Bergen already. might as well just make it official.

i dont get it.. there is no such thing as "too dense", is there?
Here in Norway where everyone is suppose to have their own garden and garage, yes.

but seriously, how is stavanger too dense? i just cant begin to imagine how this is possible.. i could never in my life even think that this would ever become a problem in any norwegian city. it just doesnt add up in my head. why is it that they want to make stavanger less dense? could someone please enlighten me?

Stavanger is not to dense, but they want a bigger part of new projects to be new felts of residents rather than; mostly densifie in existing buildingzone as it has the last couple of years. Stavanger is bascially a big village, not dense at all, but since villa areas in Norway mostly are (way over)protected they have to build other places like they done with the “urban waterfront” project.

does anyone have a picture of what this big commune (?) would look like on a map? Also, how many people would live there? i need this information before i can make up my mind about what id like it to be called..

Quite easy to see if you look at google earth with Randaberg, Sola, Stavanger and Sandnes. 221.000 people (225.000 with Rennesøy).

to be honest, I think Sandnes and those other small places located around Stavanger should all be implemented to stavanger.. i also think the same about bergen.. askøy, os, fjell (+ øygarden and sund) are practically a part of Bergen already. might as well just make it official.
I agree, but the smaller kommuner are often not to crazy about it. They are probably afraid to come in the shadow of the main center, more taxes spent in the central parts etc. We have the same debate here, some wants Tønsberg, Nøtterøy and Tjøme to be implemented in one, but Tjøme commune are against it.