http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00083/sta3_83821d.jpg

Plans for £128m city stadium unveiled

By Jim Gracey 25/03/09

The Belfast Telegraph can today reveal an ambitious plan to build a new 25,000 seater football and rugby stadium in the heart of east Belfast.




An urban alternative to the ill-fated Maze national stadium, the £128m Blanchflower stadium development would be sited at Sydenham, close to major road, rail, ferry and air links.

The £66m stadium would be home to the Northern Ireland football team and Ulster Rugby’s major European games, hosting top local showpiece football fixtures such as the Irish Cup final.

The Ulster Rugby squad would report every day at a £10m National Training Centre, although Ravenhill would remain the traditional home of rugby.

And it will create 100 permanent jobs as well as provide a boost for the hard hit Northern Ireland construction industry.

The stadium, costing £66m, would be home to the Northern Ireland football team and Ulster rugby's major European games. It would also host top local showpiece football fixtures, such as the Irish Cup Final.

Glentoran FC will be the anchor club tenant, moving from their nearby antiquated Oval stadium, which would then be developed, probably as a business park.

A covered walkway, over the Sydenham by-pass, will link George Best City Airport to the stadium and a new railway halt on the Bangor line. Four thousand car parking spaces complete the transport picture.

The plans also include a 150-bedroom hotel, as part of the stadium design, modelled on similar projects in England at the Bolton, Coventry and MK Dons grounds.

There will be retail and leisure areas, including an indoor five-a-side football arena, as well as Belfast City Council managed community facilities.

The Ulster Rugby squad would report for work there every day at a £10m national training centre for football and rugby, complete with covered training facilities and artificial surfaces. Nearby Ravenhill will remain the traditional home of rugby with only major revenue-generating fixtures, like the Heineken Cup, played on the new turf.

Gaelic Games will not be involved, as they would have been at the Maze, because of the GAA's expressed wish to maintain their Belfast presence at Casement Park in the west of the city.

The ambitious plan will have a few hurdles to clear.

The absence of Gaelic Games apart, it sounds like a good news story for Northern Ireland sport, one that ticks many of the boxes the Maze did not for its opponents, in terms of location, size, cost and transport.

However, there is a question mark with regard to the current home of the Northern Ireland football team, Windsor Park.

Football's governing body, the Irish FA, Ulster Rugby and the GAA were united in their early support for the Maze. But agendas, and personalities, have changed since then, particularly at the IFA.

Stormont politicians and Belfast City Council have reacted more positively to private presentations of the Belfast model than they did to the Maze.

Ulster Rugby sources have signalled a willingness to come on board for Heineken Cup-style European games, giving them twice the capacity of Ravenhill, and to base their Ulster professionals at the proposed national training centre.

But, despite being kept firmly in the loop, IFA chiefs remain non-committal.

Under deposed chief executive Howard Wells and go-ahead former president Jim Boyce, the IFA momentum was firmly in favour of a move away from rundown Windsor to a new state-of-the-art international stadium, wherever it may be.

A legal battle was shaping up as the IFA even prepared to break the terms of their 100-year rental agreement with stadium owners Linfield.

But with the forced departure of Mr Wells, the emphasis has appeared to shift back to redeveloping Windsor, so seriously starved of Government funding in comparison to other sports down the years, that its capacity has shrunk from 40,000 to 12,500, with the bizarre sight of a fire engine stationed alongside its remaining old wooden stand, during international games, under health and safety rules.

The crucial question for football, and the Stormont Executive, who will be expected to provide capital funding for the Blanchflower project, is where they will secure best value for the money Sports Minister Gregory Campbell has said he will divert from the Maze to boost the three sports and their facilities.

Windsor is seen as difficult to develop in terms of planning permission in a built-up area and would continue to be used solely for football.

Blanchflower is zoned for a vast playing fields area, whose current users will be accommodated in the new design. It will host more than one sport, with community and commercial aspects to make it self-financing.

Project manager Gilbert Graham said, however: “We are not in the business of talking down Windsor. We prefer to talk up our own project.

“It offers a great opportunity and showcase for Northern Ireland sport in the vacuum left by the Maze.

“It will create jobs, it will encourage investment and give this country sporting facilities to be proud of as the London 2012 Olympics approach.

“It will encompass everything that is good about the new Northern Ireland going forward.

“We've held exploratory talks with all the interested parties — football, rugby, their supporters, Government and the city council.

“They've seen our plans and the response has been largely positive.

“This was never meant to be a rival or alternative to the Maze, or to Windsor, for that matter. It was on the drawing board all through the Maze process.

“Our intention was to build a junior stadium but with the collapse of the Maze project there is a gap to be filled and we are ready to meet the need.

“Our plans are on the table. What we require now is a firm commitment... from the Government, from rugby and from football, telling us where they want to go. We can then build it in 18 months.” http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/plans-for-pound128m-city-stadium-unveiled-14241839.html



Blanchflower Stadium: plan for aiprort train station

By Linda McKee
Wednesday, 25 March 2009

A NEW railway halt proposed to serve the Blanchflower Stadium on the Belfast to Bangor line could also revolutionise transport links to George Best Belfast City Airport.

The developer of the proposed 93-acre project has put forward plans to build a covered walkway over the Sydenham bypass, linking the airport to the stadium and creating a new railway halt on the Bangor line.

Four thousand car parking spaces are also proposed and it is understood the stadium will be |accessed by a new road link to the bypass.

This would make use of the |underpass constructed under the dual carriageway some years ago to allow traffic to leave the airport without having to cut across the main bypass.

Councillor Jim Rodgers, who has been working with the developers to come up with an acceptable plan, said strong transport links are crucial to its success.

“It would be ideal to have this halt to accommodate fans going up to and from the stadium — we are trying to get people out of their cars,” he said.

“It’s key because you’ve got to bear in mind that although there are very few houses on that part of the main Holywood Road, you have got to consider those living off the Holywood Road.

“The last thing the applicant wants is for people to be parking outside homes and blocking driveways.

“Like a number of councillors, I’ve been calling for some time for a railway halt to accommodate Belfast City Airport.

“The idea is to have a halt which would not only accommodate the airport but the stadium.

“If you are building major sporting facilities, you need them close to the airport, railway, bus routes, the ferries and to have a good road network.”

The applicant has worked closely with Roads Service and Northern Ireland Railways to make sure the transport links fit in with their plans, he added.

The halt would be relatively low cost, with just a covered area on either side of the line and linking in to a covered walkway across the bypass, Mr Rodgers said.

“With our inclement weather, people are not going to get wet when leaving the stadium or the airport going to the halt,” he said.

A spokesman for George Best Belfast City Airport said: “We would welcome any plans that would improve access to the airport.” http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/blanchflower-stadium-plan-for-aiprort-train-station-14241908.html


Decision time for IFA

By Steven Beacom
Wednesday, 25 March 2009

Two options are now on the table.

1) The refurbishment of Windsor Park, the current international home, to a 20,000 capacity.

2) A brand new 25,000 stadium, costing £128 million in private and public money, based in east Belfast. This project is the brainchild of Eastonville Traders, a company based at Donegall Square in Belfast.

The Belfast Telegraph can reveal that the “Danny Blanchflower stadium” based in Sydenham would also host big Ulster rugby matches with plans to build a hotel on site as well as a £10 million training facility.

It is understood that Ulster rugby will come on board if the government invest in the project, though for the IFA there are major decisions to make.

Speaking from a UEFA congress in Copenhagen today, IFA President Kennedy said: “Already we have been involved in a number of meetings about the east Belfast project and still there is a lot of work to be done.

“We must decide what is good for the IFA, good for the game and what’s good for international football.

“Even when the Maze stadium was on the cards, there was talk about a 10,000 stadium being built at Sydenham to host the likes of Northern Ireland under-21 matches.

“Now with the Maze out of the picture the developers are keen to increase the size of the Blanchflower stadium.

“There is also the situation relating to Windsor Park and the possible refurbishment of that stadium.

“And of course Linfield have the long term contract for Northern Ireland games to be played at Windsor.

“We have big decisions to make. Indeed I would say that this is the biggest decision that we have had to make in 50 years because it will determine where Northern Ireland play in the future.

“The Sports Minister Gregory Campbell is keen that we do not delay. There are some more meetings to take place and then the IFA’s Executive board will have the final say.” http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/local/decision-time-for-ifa-14241912.html

This proposal makes a lot of sense because the site has good road, rail and airport connections although the immediate area doesn’t offer many facilities such as pubs/restaurants/clubs for the fans before and the after match like the Lisburn Road, Ormeau Road and Ravenhill Road does.

I still think if there was a proposal for Ormeau Park it would make the most sense because it’s a stone throw away from the city centres pubs/restaurants/clubs and central station etc. A large pedestrian bridge/walkway could be installed over the Lagan linking Ormeau Park to the City Centre and Central Station.

I think the idea of the Maze stadium accommodating the 3 sports, GAA, Football and Rugby was stupid. Due to the size of a GAA pitch, the stadium bowl would have to be massive resulting in football and rugby fans sitting miles away from the pitch. Take a look at Croke Park when they play football matches…

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/186/444112085_d216250122_b.jpg

While Blanchflower is a bit out in the wilderness at the moment, The Park avenue hotel want to build a sister hotel near the new stadium.

great solution! win win for everyone as far as i can see... The GAA require there own type of stadium because of the pitch size issue.

The maze site should be sold for commerce maybe using the Shannon Free Zone idea to attract some high value jobs. Money gained from that could then be invested on improved transport links perhaps.

I like this idea and makes a hell of a lot more sense than the maze site.

I hope its seriously considered and the news mentioned it could be complete in 18 months, which means we would have a serious chance as getting some Olympic football matches.


Hopefully people pull the fucking finger out and get it sorted.

Ulster Rugby has said it is not committed "in any way" to a proposed new stadium in east Belfast. BBC news.

What is the way forward?

I think Ormeau/Titantic Quarter is the best location, look at Cardiff.

The Irish FA, Ulster Rugby, Belfast City Council should be pushing for something like this....

http://www.cityofbelfaststadium.com/images/banner.jpg

http://www.cityofbelfaststadium.com/

The Irish FA, Ulster Rugby, Belfast City Council should be pushing for something like this....

Why can they not get the ormeau off the ground. Good image plank007. I mean it makes absolute sense to go with that option. Look at how close it is to Central station. Crowds will simply pour across the river from the city centre. Folk could bus it in. You know there is an easy, common sense approach to most things in life. Why can those in control not use their brain? Ormeau is an excellent choice.

Paisley is against it. Too close to his church. Won't happen.

Why can they not get the ormeau off the ground. Good image plank007. I mean it makes absolute sense to go with that option. Look at how close it is to Central station. Crowds will simply pour across the river from the city centre. Folk could bus it in. You know there is an easy, common sense approach to most things in life. Why can those in control not use their brain? Ormeau is an excellent choice.


Why destroy the largest open green space Belfast has?

I agree its very close to the city centre but Blanchflower isn't exactly out of the way to be honest, especially with better facilities for parking and a railway halt. About 5 minutes by train from Central, hardly a great distance.

The picture of it suggests that it will only build over the boring parts of the park, ie the football pitches. Having said that if they build it like that South & East belfast would lose their main pitches for football. No need to repeat olympic London's destruction of community sports facilities in the name of progress.

The Irish FA, Ulster Rugby, Belfast City Council should be pushing for something like this....

The Ormeau has most on board, so lets go with it.

Why destroy the largest open green space Belfast has?

You either 'destroy' the greenery of Blanchflower or Ormeau so what. The park is huge and the well wooded areas are south of where the stadium is.

Blanchflower isn't exactly out of the way to be honest, especially with better facilities for parking and a railway halt. About 5 minutes by train from Central, hardly a great distance.

In the city centre everybody in NI can get one bus or rail journey in and then walk. If 8000 people converge on the station platform at central for a match to get out to Blanchflower, do you believe that NI railways will provide a smooth operation. Judging from past experience it would be a nightmare. Oh and the M3 will become a huge carpark.

The Ormeau has most on board, so lets go with it.



You either 'destroy' the greenery of Blanchflower or Ormeau so what. The park is huge and the well wooded areas are south of where the stadium is.



In the city centre everybody in NI can get one bus or rail journey in and then walk. If 8000 people converge on the station platform at central for a match to get out to Blanchflower, do you believe that NI railways will provide a smooth operation. Judging from past experience it would be a nightmare. Oh and the M3 will become a huge carpark.

Same arguement applies to having the stadium at Ormeau. Where are they going to place the carpark? Or will, as many fear, people just clog residential streets?

Your arguement is dependant on people getting a bus or train, that is not going to happen as transport outside of Belfast is shit and people will drive.

Same arguement applies to having the stadium at Ormeau. Where are they going to place the carpark? Or will, as many fear, people just clog residential streets?

Your arguement is dependant on people getting a bus or train, that is not going to happen as transport outside of Belfast is shit and people will drive.


A lot of people have a few jars before and after, those who drive can make use of thousands of carparking spaces around the city centre, which are normally vacant after 6.00pm, a special arrangement can be made with city centre car parks, for events.

Any stadium at the Maze makes no sense whatever, never mind a 42,000 seater stadium.

Firstly the IFA would only be able to fill half the seats. Ulster Rugby would be able to fill a quarter of it. The GAA would be the only ones who could fill it to capacity. This would have a disastrous effect on the atmosphere.

Secondly, existing public transport can’t handle 20,000 + people going to the maze site. It would require a huge investment in new roads, buses, trains/track just to support the stadium. For a couple of games a year it’s not a sustainable investment in public transport when Belfast City has the infrastructure to support tens of thousands of people traveling into the city centre at peak times.

Ormeau Park is the prime location. It’s stone throw away from the city centres pubs/clubs/restaurants and people going to a game would probably make it night out - go to the match then go for a meal/pint in the city benefiting the local economy. A stadium at the maze benefits nobody. People would simply drive to the maze, watch the match and then drive home.

There would not be traffic chaos at Ormeau Park because Belfast City can handle that amount of people travelling into the city centre at peak times.

There would not be traffic chaos at Ormeau Park because Belfast City can handle that amount of people travelling into the city centre at peak times.

No it can't...you even been in Belfast during evening rush hour?

Traffic in Belfast is horrendous

No it can't...you even been in Belfast during evening rush hour?

Traffic in Belfast is horrendous

The amount of people travelling into Belfast at peak times is far greater than the amount travelling into Belfast for a game at 7pm. Therefore the current transport infrastructure can support a stadium in Belfast whereas a stadium at the Maze would require a new transport infrastructure costing tens of millions and only be used 40 times a year!

The football internationals and the few major rugby games and odd sports/entertainment event would not make a new stadium viable.
The Blanchflower Stadium would be used by Glentoran FC through out the football season to replace the poor facilities at the old Oval on mersey Street which would bring in a regular income .
Transport can be better handled by the by-pass,train line and airport and quick and easy access to the site and the much needed car parking has be included in the plans.
It won't annoy local residents as there aren't many around the location.
Plus facilities include Tesco,IKEA,Sainsbury's and Holywood Exchange all close by for car visitors and only 5 minutes by train or 15 by bus from the city centre. Lots of shops,take away's etc in nearby Belmont for those local supporters.With the new hotel on the site and other services that come included in a major stadium like this then I don't see this as anything but the perfect solution.

But being Northern Ireland its never that simple. With the well documented problems associated with the move of international football from Windsor Park and Ulster Rugby showing no serious interest in the plan and the usual political in fighting at Stormont,Belfast City council and different communities and interested groups it will either be delayed for years and years or never happen. Sigh. Here we go again.......

Assuming Giant's Park is a no goer, then Sydenham makes the most sense. Once the York Street interchange is built, then getting in and out of the stadium would be relatively painless with little effect on city centre traffic but having all the advantages of proximity to it.

Ormeau really isn't an option. 20 000 people trying to squeeze their way around the annadale embankment and ravenhill roads all at once? Get real.

Its issues like this that demonstrate why we need an elected mayor. Otherwise as jeff says it will just be forever mired in all the politicking and multi layers of beaurocracy.

Ormeau really isn't an option. 20 000 people trying to squeeze their way around the annadale embankment and ravenhill roads all at once? Get real.

Why would 20,000 people using the Ormeau Embankment and the Ravenhill Road all at once present a problem? Don't forget that 20,000 people doesn't mean 20,000 cars.

Four people can fit comfortably into an average-sized car, and much more into coaches and the special buses that Belfast Transport would put on. And there's always your tod...

And again, don't forget that we are not confined to the Embankment and the Ravenhill Road: Ravenhill Avenue, Ardenlee Avenue, and Onslow Parade/Ravenhill Park, all feed directly onto the Ormeau Park from the Cregagh Road. There is also a major gateway into the park from the Ormeau Road itself.

Sure, it would be busy - and slow. But no major problems. Nothing to "Get real" about.

Theres been rumblings of a big stadium at the blanchflower site for near 15 years. What make this report any different from those in the past?

Assuming Giant's Park is a no goer, then Sydenham makes the most sense. Once the York Street interchange is built, then getting in and out of the stadium would be relatively painless with little effect on city centre traffic but having all the advantages of proximity to it.

Yeah, wider roads, bigger junctions cut road congestion. Years of experience shows that this is not the case. As each road gets wider, more people use the road, and before you know it grid lock, wait and see with the west-link. The major problem will be at the end of the Sydenham by-pas, it will tail back to the M3.

Ormeau really isn't an option. 20 000 people trying to squeeze their way around the annadale embankment and ravenhill roads all at once? Get real.

Croke Park, Dublin is an urban stadium and can handle 80,000 (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Croke+Park&sll=54.104502,-6.800537&sspn=3.446342,14.018555&ie=UTF8&ll=53.360771,-6.252218&spn=0.003272,0.01369&t=h&z=17)
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff is an urban stadium and can handle 70,000 (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Millennium+Stadium+cardiff&sll=53.350551,-6.250362&sspn=0.052361,0.153809&ie=UTF8&cd=1&ll=51.477875,-3.181432&spn=0.003575,0.009613&t=h&z=17&iwloc=A)
Lansdowne Road, Dublin is an urban stadium and will be able to handle 40,000 (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Lansdowne+Road,+Dublin&sll=51.477875,-3.181432&sspn=0.003575,0.009613&ie=UTF8&ll=53.334922,-6.228937&spn=0.003428,0.009613&t=h&z=17)

If you look at the satellite photos of each stadium the area is considerably smaller than Ormeau Park. None of the above stadiums have any car parking either.

I fail to see how Ormeau is a better option than Sydenham.

OK, traffic is going to be problem no matter what. But if one option is channeling it through the M2/3/Westlink and the other is the narrow streets around the Ormeau and Ravenhill roads, then which would you prefer?

And both are close enough to the city centre, so neither has advantage over the other regarding that.

What will Ormeau offer that Sydenham can't?

What will Ormeau offer that Sydenham can't?

Belfast City centre within walking distance.
Pubs, clubs, restaurants & hotels within walking distance.
Central Station within walking distance
Thousands of car parking spaces within walking distance

I fail to see how there would be traffic chaos. Firstly Belfast can handle 25,000 people in cars and public transport whereas Sydenham can’t.

Secondly Belfast city centre is 1 bus/train journey away from anywhere in Northern Ireland whereas Sydenham is not. How would people in South Belfast, North Belfast or further get a bus/train to Sydenham without having to go through Belfast City Centre first? This would simply encourage people to drive instead.

Thirdly Sydenham doesn’t have any licensed premises. The Belmont Road and Newtonwards Road don’t have the capacity for 20,000 fans wanting a drink or a meal whereas Belfast City Centres does. Are fans expected to travel back into the city in their cars if they want a drink or meal?

One advantage of the Ormeau is that you could walk to the city centre, and the area itself is less bland than suburban Tillysburn. But apart from that heres little difference. Most people will prefer sacrificing blanchflower for a stadium than they would Ormeau pk.

Got in ahead of me.
As it currently stands East Belfast doesnt have enough pubs and restaraunts, though Ormeau rd is little better. I wouldnt say the Ormeau offers 1000's of car parking spaces, though somewhere nearby (maysfield?) does.

Quote <How would people in South Belfast, North Belfast or further get a bus/train to Sydenham without having to go through Belfast City Centre first? This would simply encourage people to drive instead> Quote

If there was the willpower they could easily put on a fleet of buses going from other parts of town to the grounds, minibuses to local hotels, etc. They do this albeit more low key when an event's on at Stormont, haloween etc. Though there is a lot to be said about the ability to walk from the grounds into town. The maze was the complete opposite of this and was a silly proposal.

Without looking at it into too much detail, I reckon the Ormeau looks better, but Tillysburn isnt much of a dissapointment.

Let's remember just how many 'big' games are going to be played here, or at any stadium. Ulster Rugby are doing their best to actively discourage talk of a 'multi-sports' stadium, and it's been clear for some time that the GAA really aren't interested (and why would they be). You only have to look at the new stand going up at Ravenhill to realise that Ulster aren't planning to move anywhere. So failing a return to form, Ulster play 3 home games in the European cup each year, plus a home game against Munster. Let's throw the Leinster game in as well just to be wildly optimistic. That's 5 games from Ulster which would possibly fill the stadium.

How many NI home games per year, another 5 (again being optimistic)?

Throw in a couple of cup finals, which by no means guarantee a full house and we're left with 12 games per year. I don't think traffic and parking are really going to be a huge issue. This isn't going to be Croke park, we aren't talking about 80,000 people.

I think we need to realise that the idea of a community stadium is nonesense. We either build a new one for football, or rebuild Windsor and plough some development money into other clubs. Throw some cash at Ravenhill to bring it into the 20th century (9 years too late), and donate some to the GAA to help with whatever it is they are building these days.

The plan is to allow Glentoran to play their matches at the new stadium. That’s about 12+ games a year.

During the summer the stadium could host a range of concerts & events which would offer a real alternative to the Odyssey Arena.

The plan is to allow Glentoran to play their matches at the new stadium. That’s about 12+ games a year.

During the summer the stadium could host a range of concerts & events which would offer a real alternative to the Odyssey Arena.

With respect to Glentoran fans, that isn't going to cause a major run on the transport infrastructure.

With respect to Glentoran fans, that isn't going to cause a major run on the transport infrastructure.

Exactly so why do Glentoran need a 25,000 seater stadium in the Blanchflower park? They could barely fill a quarter of it!

An incentive to reduce car usage to the stadium would be to offer discounted public travel to fans that have a match ticket! Fans from North, East, West and South Belfast could easily get a Metro Bus to the city centre and walk to Ormeau Park.

I maintain that Sydenham is a better site, taking a long term view.

A stadium there will in future be within walking distance of the Titanic Quarter, so the punters enjoying a match should have the amenities of pubs and hotels close by eventually. I think Belfast should be looking to expand its central built up urban zone, so to speak, and a stadium at Sydenham with the nearby Titanic Quarter affords this. And anyway the city centre is less than 2 miles away, hardly a daunting trek.

Hmmm, just realised I may be thinking of the wrong location re Blanchflower.

Is this it:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=blanchflower+park+belfast&sll=-33.826769,151.235194&sspn=0.006221,0.016437&ie=UTF8&ll=54.607024,-5.884123&spn=0.017349,0.065746&t=h&z=14? (Victoria Park in the middle?)

East Belfast aint my end of town.

No, it's a lot further away than that. This is it here.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=blanchflower+park+belfast&sll=-33.826769,151.235194&sspn=0.006221,0.016437&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=54.613809,-5.864221&spn=0.001432,0.003455&z=18

The best you'd get for TQ would be a train to the currently useless Bridge End station. The stadium might be built before it's accompanying train halt is, and it would probably be several years before the 5 minute walk from Bridge End to TQ is developed from its current industrial wasteground.

The site you had in mind, King George pitches, is probably going to be sacrificed for a dual carriageway junction. It is meant to incorporate a river walk and the EWAY as well. Perhaps the demolition of the Oval will free up some space but Im dubious

OK, grand. Thats crap. Still better than the Maze though...

The best you'd get for TQ would be a train to the currently useless Bridge End station. The stadium might be built before it's accompanying train halt is, and it would probably be several years before the 5 minute walk from Bridge End to TQ is developed from its current industrial wasteground.


No, you get a train to Sydenham which is much closer.

I think we're still going to be arguing about this in 5 years time to be honest...

I meant as they are going to build a train stop at the stadium, you could get a train from there to TQ if you really wanted to. But why would you go to TQ/Oddysey for an after match meal/drink when you could go into town.

I think it's probably best seeing the Blanchflower stadium for what it really is. It's not an alternative to the Maze proposal, its the new home of the Glens. It may have the odd rugby match, but the snub they got from the IRFU last week doesnt make that look hopeful. It may have a hotel. If nothing else it will offer a train stop for the city airport.

The problem for the Glens is that they will have a massive stadium which will feel very souless for their matches where they may only attract 200 people. They could well end up pining after the good old days at the Oval!

I think it's probably best seeing the Blanchflower stadium for what it really is. It's not an alternative to the Maze proposal, its the new home of the Glens. It may have the odd rugby match, but the snub they got from the IRFU last week doesnt make that look hopeful. It may have a hotel. If nothing else it will offer a train stop for the city airport.


I think in a sense it is an alternative to the Maze proposal. The idea of an all-sports stadium has finally fallen on its face, as it was probably always going to. The GAA have no interest in sharing facilities, it's the way they work and the way they'll always work. They've also spent time, money and effort in developing their own facilities and quite frankly have done a much better job than rugby or football. Ulster rugby are redeveloping Ravenhill, and they were always going to regardless of Maze/Ormeau/wherever.

The only organisation that wants a new stadium is the IFA, although it has to be said that given the home advantage effect of both the atmosphere and the run down nature of the facilities, Windsor Park is worth its weight in gold. It is in desperate need of rebuilding though.

The one thing I had hoped we would avoid though, is the design/building of a soulless identikit bowl stadium such as the one proposed for the Blanchflower stadium. I'm beginning to think that there won't be an idea that people can genuinely get behind. I would love to see a 40k+ stadium somewhere in belfast but it's not going to happen.

We could do a lot worse than spend the money refitting Windsor, getting the Glens a new state of the art home in East Belfast, filter some money to the other clubs so that you aren't standing watching a Premier league game ankle deep in mud and give rugby and GAA some money for redevelopment/grass roots.

I'm not much of a football fan, but the few times I've seens matches I've preffered to stand on the terraces than sit down. Do you reckon there's any chance you could stand in the stadium or are they going to make it an all seater?

I would love to see a 40k+ stadium somewhere in belfast but it's not going to happen.


I’m sure we would all like to see a 40K+ stadium built in Belfast but it’s completely unrealistic for a number of reasons. Even beyond wildest expectations, the IFA could never fill 40,000 seats and neither could Ulster Rugby. Having 15,000 -20,000 empty seats would have a disastrous effect on the atmosphere. Any fan will tell you they would rather sit in a full 5,000 stadium than a half full 40,000 one.

Why I think the Ormeau Park stadium makes the most sense (apart from location) is capacity can be increased from 25,000 in 5-10 years down the line if needed.

Stadiums that hold competitive soccer games must be all seaters due to the Hillsbourgh and other stadium disasters. Standing terraces are allowed at Rugby & GAA games because fans are generally better behaved than soccer ones.

I'm not much of a football fan, but the few times I've seens matches I've preffered to stand on the terraces than sit down. Do you reckon there's any chance you could stand in the stadium or are they going to make it an all seater?

As far as I am aware all seater is required under FIFA guidelines as well as for a safety aspect.

I’m sure we would all like to see a 40K+ stadium built in Belfast but it’s completely unrealistic for a number of reasons. Even beyond wildest expectations, the IFA could never fill 40,000 seats and neither could Ulster Rugby. Having 15,000 -20,000 empty seats would have a disastrous effect on the atmosphere. Any fan will tell you they would rather sit in a full 5,000 stadium than a half full 40,000 one.

Why I think the Ormeau Park stadium makes the most sense (apart from location) is capacity can be increased from 25,000 in 5-10 years down the line if needed.

Stadiums that hold competitive soccer games must be all seaters due to the Hillsbourgh and other stadium disasters. Standing terraces are allowed at Rugby & GAA games because fans are generally better behaved than soccer ones.

Aaaaahhh..... I take it youve never attended a local football match?

I would love to see a 40k+ stadium somewhere in belfast but it's not going to happen.



Not yet finalised but maybe your wish is about to come true...
This could be the stadium problem solved - no need for Maze/Ormeau/Gaint's Park/Sydenham

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/draft-plans-would-transform-casement-park-into-40000seater-stadium-14252834.html

Aaaaahhh..... I take it youve never attended a local football match?

I assume your question is in relation to my point about Rugby & GAA fans being better behaved than soccer ones?

Not yet finalised but maybe your wish is about to come true...
This could be the stadium problem solved - no need for Maze/Ormeau/Gaint's Park/Sydenham

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/draft-plans-would-transform-casement-park-into-40000seater-stadium-14252834.html

Apart from the fact IFA don’t want 40,000 seats, the majority of Northern Ireland football fans will not move to Casement Park! 25,000 Northern Ireland fans walking down the Falls & Andersontown Road weaving flags and singing would be a policing nightmare!

Apart from the fact IFA don’t want 40,000 seats, the majority of Northern Ireland football fans will not move to Casement Park! 25,000 Northern Ireland fans walking down the Falls & Andersontown Road weaving flags and singing would be a policing nightmare!

If this one gets the go ahead and the rugby boys don't go along with Sydenham there may be little other choice.

Anyway, cut out the flags and the singing of any sectarian songs and there'd be no problem. Make things more inclusive and a 40,000 capacity stadium wouldn't be big enough.

Make things more inclusive and a 40,000 capacity stadium wouldn't be big enough.

A DCAL survey in 2004 stated that “regular fans represented 3% of the general population of NI”. This is approximately 51,000 people. 41% of these fans had never attended ‘international soccer’ (approximately 21,000). Of the remaining 30,000, this included 7% who said they did not support Northern Ireland but supported others including the Republic of Ireland and England. At the meetings with us, the SIB endorsed this report by admitting that they did not perceive our possible attendances to be higher than 27,000.

‘Build it and they will come’
Initially crowd sizes will swell as is the norm with new facilities - it is a well-known factor in new stadiums. Crowds are enticed by new amenities, but generally teams find it hard to retain these ‘new’ fans. The Belfast Giants play to a fraction of their initial crowds yet they are housed in top class facilities with top class amenities and display a top class product. Aspiration and ambition can be no substitute for realism.

Northern Ireland will not always get a top class draw like we had for our last campaign. Coupled with the inevitability of fluctuating success on the pitch and the atmosphere lost amongst the empty seats, ‘new’ fans may find the novelty wears off very quickly and - as in the case of the Giants - only the hardcore support will be left.

Can the three sports really fit in one stadium?

Pitch size is also a major concern – the report by Davis Langdon & Everest for the SIB revealed that an average GAA pitch is 22m wider and 37m longer than a football pitch. This will harm the footballing atmosphere significantly. As a small nation, the “12 th man” can be a positive effect on the team and not something we wish to lose.

http://www.notothemaze.com/The%20Campaign-Capacity%20&%20Stadium%20Design.htm

I'm increasingly of the opinion that developing Casement, Ravenhill and Windsor separately is the best option.

Rugby is probably the only sport with cross community support, but with too few supporters for a large stadium to be viable. The GAA and the IFA may have the fans, but are perceived as too sectarian (regardless if that is real or not) by the other side. To make things more inclusive the GAA would have to drop the anthem and NI would have to change its flag, neither of which is going to happen any time soon.

This shared stadium idea is like fitting round pegs into square holes. Rather than having a super, massive potential white elephant of a stadium I think we should just aim to develop the 3 we have into respectable moderate sized affairs. A precondition for Windsor though should be the removal of that binding financial clause between Linfield and the IFA.

Belfast, unfortunately is still a very divided city. I dont generally support ideas that reinforce that but I cant see how a shared stadium in any capacity is viable.

I assume your question is in relation to my point about Rugby & GAA fans being better behaved than soccer ones?

Apart from the fact IFA don’t want 40,000 seats, the majority of Northern Ireland football fans will not move to Casement Park! 25,000 Northern Ireland fans walking down the Falls & Andersontown Road weaving flags and singing would be a policing nightmare!

In RE to the terracing remark.

If this one gets the go ahead and the rugby boys don't go along with Sydenham there may be little other choice.

Anyway, cut out the flags and the singing of any sectarian songs and there'd be no problem. Make things more inclusive and a 40,000 capacity stadium wouldn't be big enough.

What sectarian songs?

Lansdowne Road, Dublin is an urban stadium and will be able to handle 40,000 (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Lansdowne+Road,+Dublin&sll=51.477875,-3.181432&sspn=0.003575,0.009613&ie=UTF8&ll=53.334922,-6.228937&spn=0.003428,0.009613&t=h&z=17)


"Aviva" - 50,000 ;)

Sounds like a great idea though, best way to encourage local fans is provide facilities, even better if they're within the city. Is Belfast very divided along sports lines?

"Aviva" - 50,000 ;)

Sounds like a great idea though, best way to encourage local fans is provide facilities, even better if they're within the city. Is Belfast very divided along sports lines?

The Aviva Stadium will never stick. The D4 heads will still call it Lansdowne.

I'm increasingly of the opinion that developing Casement, Ravenhill and Windsor separately is the best option.

You might be right, however I'd like to see money spread around football, and not just 'given' to Linfield.


Rugby is probably the only sport with cross community support, but with too few supporters for a large stadium to be viable. The GAA and the IFA may have the fans, but are perceived as too sectarian (regardless if that is real or not) by the other side. To make things more inclusive the GAA would have to drop the anthem and NI would have to change its flag, neither of which is going to happen any time soon.

A large(ish) stadium is viable, but only for a handful of games every year. With a plum draw in the Heineken cup Ulster could easily sell 40K tickets, and possibly even for a top of the table clash with Munster/Leinster. However this doesn't justify a 3/4 empty stadium for most of the games.

I think the GAA would continue to play the Anthem, and why not. They can do what they like at their events. NI would need to get a flag first, we haven't had an official one since 1972. Perhaps it is also a good time to look into the flag/anthem issue as well. We need something that is 'ours', and that applies to more than 53% of the population. No matter if you are pro or anti union in Scotland or Wales, the flag and anthem are universally accepted and supported. We don't have such a luxury and I beleive it is detrimental.


This shared stadium idea is like fitting round pegs into square holes. Rather than having a super, massive potential white elephant of a stadium I think we should just aim to develop the 3 we have into respectable moderate sized affairs. A precondition for Windsor though should be the removal of that binding financial clause between Linfield and the IFA.

Belfast, unfortunately is still a very divided city. I dont generally support ideas that reinforce that but I cant see how a shared stadium in any capacity is viable.

It isn't viable, at least not one that includes the GAA, and for various reasons. I think those with the purse strings need to realise that pigeon holing sports together is just not going to work.

I know the last person to write on this was ages ago but if there should be a new football stdium for N.I it should be built here http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=blanchflower+park+belfast&sll=-33.826769,151.235194&sspn=0.006221,0.016437&ie=UTF8&ll=54.607024,-5.884123&spn=0.017349,0.065746&t=h&z=14?#

that link didnt work but if you go to google maps then type in corrs corner and were the letter b is, is the perfect site for bulding

would be very handy for me, but a new stadium will NOT be built.