This post relates to Bangladesh’s continuous struggle to be more recognized throughout the world. Not many people know about Bangladesh nor do they care. The reason is not because it’s Bangladesh, but because they can’t learn anything about it due to language barrier. One of the greatest obstacles which I see in Bangladesh is the lack of English language medium all throughout the country.

There is not a single TV channel in Bangladesh which is dedicated to use English as the sole language. Why is that? I never understand the stubbornness with Bangladeshis and their obsession with ‘protecting’ the Bengali culture. Bangla is our mother language and it will always be out mother language. Pakistan is gone and no one will force Bengalis to speak Urdu; however, sticking with Bangla and not accepting English is depriving so much development. Probashis of the new generation have a big gap between them and Bangladesh. I am a Probashi and I want to get involved in aiding Bangladesh but what stops me is Bangla. If English was promoted more or if Bangla has a separate Latin script then it would help and ease down the barrier.

The world does not speak Bangla and nor will they ever speak Bangla. Majority of the countries in the world speak English, and only English is used in business transaction, diplomatic talks, and settling other international issues.

Look at the Bangladeshi workers who go abroad to work, because they don’t know English, they are harassed, cheated, and they don’t know how to protect themselves in a foreign country. Young people who come to America are called FOBs (Fresh-off-the Boat) because they are horrible in their English language. Indians and Pakistanis speak better English than Bangladeshis in America.

I applaud bdnews24.com for broadcasting news from Bangladesh in English. I depend on bdnews24.com in staying in touch with the current events of Bangladesh. In America I recommend bdnews24.com to all my Bangladeshi friends who grew up here. Some Bangladeshis may say

Cultural activist will most likely hate me for promoting English and not Bangla, but if English helps feed the poor and give them jobs, then why not? All these foreign private companies come to Bangladesh and they offer job opportunities for poor earned Bangladeshis. If these regular Bangladeshis spoke English imagine how quickly they will develop. Bangla should stay as the cultural language and English should be promoted through out which will attract foreign investments and allow Bangladeshis to self teach them.

I just hope Bangladeshis realize the importance of the English language medium, and make at least one English TV channel in Bangladesh. Because if they don’t do it then us Probashis will.

Most Bangladeshis wouldn’t see the importance of English, but if they lived abroad then they will understand the tremendous benefits for Bangladesh.

Source: Bdnews24.com (http://blog.bdnews24.com/index.php/ajprobashi/247)

it is because this way buddhi jinbis can earn fame. trust me the way things are heading the language will be extinct. I base this fact of the idea that almost anyone who can afford it is trying to send their children to an english medium school and if call centers can make it here the cost of learning english will go down further



i hope not i.e the language doesnt die out in the next 100 years

^^
Which language will die? Bangla? You must be smoking some strong ones!

Being a product of English language (private) schools myself, I am in total disagreement with the notion that mastery of the English language is a must in order to get ahead in life, personally, and for the progress of a nation. Had it been the case, the Chinese, the Russians, the Koreans, and the South Americans should still be in the dark ages.

One will never amount to anything if s/he is not comfortable in his/her own skin.

i dont know about you but from what i see around people are slowly moving away, half the people i know cant speak proper bangla, including me; half the words are english and the rest are bangla, just look at kolkata how the new generation over there is they are learning more hindi and english then bengali same in bd people with opportunity are getting into english if these so called buddhijibis didnt force bengali upon the education system things would have been different bengali may be the international mother language but most bengali i come across are least bothered about it, heck why'd they care, the kids i see speak with an american accent when it comes to english and yet their bengali is ox dung knaw mean.

i meant from that prospective

how can you compare chinese and koreans with bengalis in this regard? we are not in position to make the world communicate with us in our language we just have to accept that fact. Do you seriously think that in bangladesh you do not need to have good control over the english language to get a head? dude if it wasnt the case you wouldnt have seen ielts coaching or english spoken coaching centers popping up in every moholla. can you honestly get a good job in bd with out proper knowledge of english? even darwans today have to be metric pass or know how to read abc

I also agree that based on the current situation, spreading English language is a must for Bangladesh.It is true that lot of westerners are learning chinese but at the same time Chinese people are also focusing english in order to catch up in Information technology and other non manufacturing sectors..just during the last Olympics thousands of Chinese learned basic english to help the tourists.

Also, India should be a good example for us. One of their main strength has been the relative proficiency in english of the middle class..The standard of English needs to be improved in the SSC and HSC level. English medium schools (Olevel, Alevel) produces less than 3-4% of the total number of graduates in the country...

i dont know about you but from what i see around people are slowly moving away, half the people i know cant speak proper bangla, including me; half the words are english and the rest are bangla, just look at kolkata how the new generation over there is they are learning more hindi and english then bengali same in bd people with opportunity are getting into english if these so called buddhijibis didnt force bengali upon the education system things would have been different bengali may be the international mother language but most bengali i come across are least bothered about it, heck why'd they care, the kids i see speak with an american accent when it comes to english and yet their bengali is ox dung knaw mean.

i meant from that prospective

i agree with you. despite the fact that we our media has gotten so much better, the quality of bangla is deteriorating.

i dont know about you but from what i see around people are slowly moving away, half the people i know cant speak proper bangla, including me; half the words are english and the rest are bangla, just look at kolkata how the new generation over there is they are learning more hindi and english then bengali same in bd people with opportunity are getting into english if these so called buddhijibis didnt force bengali upon the education system things would have been different bengali may be the international mother language but most bengali i come across are least bothered about it, heck why'd they care, the kids i see speak with an american accent when it comes to english and yet their bengali is ox dung knaw mean.

i meant from that prospective

Maybe your interaction is mostly with "English medium students"? Bengali medium students from Saint Joseph, Holy Cross, Shahin school or Notredame should have pretty decent hold of bangla as a means of communication. Most of the students I have met from BUET or Dhaka university are proficient in spoken, written Bengali aswell.

We have to remember that schools like Scholastica, BIT, Greenherald or universities like NSU, IUB still represent less than 5% of the overall student body.

i wouldnt say that i do have interaction with people from bengali medium school their english is very poor unless you consider "i go" "you go" to proper knaw mean

and no people from buet or du DO NOT posses got command of english, i have had at least 15 buet students as private tutors and their english was well not worth the mention and the same goes for DU, the BUETers from my parents generation however have way better command over english, most of these tutors while giving an interview in english with mum kept on fumbling and my mum is a mere housewife.

i wouldnt say that i do have interaction with people from bengali medium school their english is very poor unless you consider "i go" "you go" to proper knaw mean

and no people from buet or du DO NOT posses got command of english, i have had at least 15 buet students as private tutors and their english was well not worth the mention and the same goes for DU, the BUETers from my parents generation however have way better command over english, most of these tutors while giving an interview in english with mum kept on fumbling and my mum is a mere housewife.

The standard of both English and Bangla have fallen to unbelievable lows. You can't teach either with a multiple-choice education method. It needs to be taught 1:1 and with a good teacher.That's not going to happen again anytime soon...too many extra-curricular distractions these days.

Back in the day I studied and wrote papers on Sanskrit Lit. during SSC (Kalidasa), Bengali Grammar (Karak, Bivokti, Shamas etc.) and analyzed Chaucer/Shakespeare at the same time! In Bengali medium! I was lucky enough to be introduced to the wonder of literature in both languages. If you know Sanskrit well you will understand almost any Indian language well from the root words. I will respectfully remember teachers whom I've had -- dedicated principled people paid so poorly yet not devoid of their dignity and respect from students like myself.

The standard of both English and Bangla have fallen to unbelievable lows. You can't teach either with a multiple-choice education method. It needs to be taught 1:1 and with a good teacher.That's not going to happen again anytime soon...too many extra-curricular distractions these days.

Back in the day I studied and wrote papers on Sanskrit Lit. during SSC (Kalidasa), Bengali Grammar (Karak, Bivokti, Shamas etc.) and analyzed Chaucer/Shakespeare at the same time! In Bengali medium! I was lucky enough to be introduced to the wonder of literature in both languages. If you know Sanskrit well you will understand almost any Indian language well from the root words. I will respectfully remember teachers whom I've had -- dedicated principled people paid so poorly yet not devoid of their dignity and respect from students like myself.
i guess..

the previous generations were very linguistic my dad and his siblings had to learn 5 languages

arabic, bengali, english, farsi and urdu

thank god none in my generation gotta go through that :D

i wouldnt say that i do have interaction with people from bengali medium school their english is very poor unless you consider "i go" "you go" to proper knaw mean

and no people from buet or du DO NOT posses got command of english, i have had at least 15 buet students as private tutors and their english was well not worth the mention and the same goes for DU, the BUETers from my parents generation however have way better command over english, most of these tutors while giving an interview in english with mum kept on fumbling and my mum is a mere housewife.

Dude, I was saying that Bangla medium and BUET students have good command of Bengali language NOT english, because you were saying everyone you meet in Bangladesh cannot speak proper Bangla..

Whereas, english medium students have better english language proficiency but don't even know the basic of Bangla grammar and can hardly read any literature..

Dude, I was saying that Bangla medium and BUET students have good command of Bengali language NOT english, because you were saying everyone you meet in Bangladesh cannot speak proper Bangla..

Whereas, english medium students have better english language proficiency but don't even know the basic of Bangla grammar and can hardly read any literature..
dude most people cant even recite the alphabets correctly i.e the kaw khaw part, unless they are from DU bangla department

this is what the du teachers of bengali say

look at all the spelling mistakes we make on the sign boards of the stores.

^^
Which language will die? Bangla? You must be smoking some strong ones!
Had it been the case, the Chinese, the Russians, the Koreans, and the South Americans should still be in the dark ages.

One will never amount to anything if s/he is not comfortable in his/her own skin.

After differing on so many issues--FINALLY...I can agree with TIslam bhai on something:lol:

I am an eng-med school student too,and I really dont think our people need to be great at english for the nation to prosper.Unlike dopekhor,most of the people I know from eng medium background are more comfortable with Bengali than any other language,even tho they are mostly bad at writing in Bengali

After differing on so many issues--FINALLY...I can agree with TIslam bhai on something:lol:

I am an eng-med school student too,and I really dont think our people need to be great at english for the nation to prosper.Unlike dopekhor,most of the people I know from eng medium background are more comfortable with Bengali than any other language,even tho they are mostly bad at writing in Bengali

And I'd like people to know I didn't even offer a bribe of any kind to Mirza! :hahaha: :cheers2:

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs033.snc1/2661_143046475524_623260524_6301759_2237733_n.jpg

the djuice bangla is what most people use if i aint mistaken, like "beshi joss" "kothin whatever"

know what i mean

After differing on so many issues--FINALLY...I can agree with TIslam bhai on something:lol:

I am an eng-med school student too,and I really dont think our people need to be great at english for the nation to prosper.Unlike dopekhor,most of the people I know from eng medium background are more comfortable with Bengali than any other language,even tho they are mostly bad at writing in Bengali
are they from maple leaf, wills little flower, schools like that?

then you are damn right about it :D

if english isnt a requirement of prosper i wonder why so many people are trying to learn it in our country.

i dont see the why the world should learn bengali to communicate with us, not like they'd be missing out on something, on the other hand we need to communicate with the world and earn some foreign currency just look at our neighbor how they are exploiting their english skills to earn some mullah some people in our neighboring country cant even speak hindi and i mean people in the hindi speaking areas they use hindustani more

dude most people cant even recite the alphabets correctly i.e the kaw khaw part, unless they are from DU bangla department

this is what the du teachers of bengali say

Well they are probably exaggerating just like in management consulting we say no one other than an IVY leaguer can do any kind of business analysis :)

My sister and brother both went to Bangla medium and their bangla skill is pretty strong. I hang around with most of their friends aswell and no one seemed the way you are describing(does not know kaw, khaw etc).. the only people who had no clue of Bangla literature were my fellow classmates at Scholastica.You don't have to be a Bangla scholar, as long as you are decent in writing/speaking it should be okay, afterall how many americans can get over 600 in SAT english?

Anyhow this is not the discussion though. I strongly agree that Bangladeshis need to improve their english language skill in general to catch up in the IT and service sector jobs. Moreover, we do not even have proper research materials for Physics, Chemistry or Biology in Bengali so eventually all higher education should be in English in order to be competitive.

Bangla as our mother tongue will always be there, we don't need to worry too much about it.

Well they are probably exaggerating just like in management consulting we say no one other than an IVY leaguer can do any kind of business analysis :)

My sister and brother both went to Bangla medium and their bangla skill is pretty strong. I hang around with most of their friends aswell and no one seemed the way you are describing(does not know kaw, khaw etc).. the only people who had no clue of Bangla literature were my fellow classmates at Scholastica.You don't have to be a Bangla scholar, as long as you are decent in writing/speaking it should be okay, afterall how many americans can get over 600 in SAT english?

Anyhow this is not the discussion though. I strongly agree that Bangladeshis need to improve their english language skill in general to catch up in the IT and service sector jobs. Moreover, we do not even have proper research materials for Physics, Chemistry or Biology in Bengali so eventually all higher education should be in English in order to be competitive.

Bangla as our mother tongue will always be there, we don't need to worry too much about it.
dude hanif shonket the dude from ittadi made this event in his show and many times making people recite ko to chondro bindu 1 out of 10 could do the proper thang, so what does it suggest i am pretty sure most people cannot fully recite from ko to chondro bindu without any errors

at least americans dont brag about their language like we do, you dont hear their buddhi jibis saying this and that and americans are in a position to dictate terms to others we arent i wont mention the name but an emient bengali scholar once told me that I and my generation are a spit on the face of the language movement and people associated with me, it is beyond him why we are leaving our language behind to learn the language of our colonizers whom we kicked out and when i asked him why he doesnt bengali at JFK he called me a beyadop

dude hanif shonket the dude from ittadi made this event in his show and many times making people recite ko to chondro bindu 1 out of 10 could do the proper thang, so what does it suggest i am pretty sure most people cannot fully recite from ko to chondro bindu without any errors

at least americans dont brag about their language like we do, you dont hear their buddhi jibis saying this and that and americans are in a position to dictate terms to others we arent i wont mention the name but an emient bengali scholar once told me that I and my generation are a spit on the face of the language movement and people associated with me, it is beyond him why we are leaving our language behind to learn the language of our colonizers whom we kicked out and when i asked him why he doesnt bengali at JFK he called me a beyadop

I don't think it works like that, you don't have to know all the 55 letters in sequence just to read/speak in proper Bengali. I am an avid fan of Satyajit ray, Rabindranath Tagore(golpo gucho is my all time favourite), Sunil gangopadhay and others. But if you tell me to go alphabetically from "ko kha.. all the way to the end in sequence".. I won't be able to. But that does not mean I don't have any Bangla proficiency. And my Bangla is much worse than any of the people I have met from Bengali medium..

Infact what you said about Haneef Shonket will also hold true for most south asian languages like Hindi, Gujrati to Tamil. Hardly anyone can go through the letters in a sequence and pronounce everything properly. But those languages are also thriving.

As for why Bangla gets so much importance, you have to understand the historical context. The language movement in 1952 eventually lead to the liberation war and independence, much different from the history of America or any other nation. We are nation based on language and ethnicity, just like Pakistan is based on religion. So it's obvious that people will be sentimental about this. Every country brag about what is important to their history and culture as you will notice from Greece, UK to Japan.

But the sentiment should not tie us down, we can always be good at more than 1 language with proper teaching and schools. In countries like Switzerland, students learn French, German and English in school. So why can't we do the same?

I feel the main problem we have is lack of quality teachers and system. English medium school does not emphasize Bangla enough while Bengali medium schools do not have proper teachers for English. In the end we come out with students who are either proficient in one language or other.

I don't think it works like that, you don't have to know all the 55 letters in sequence just to read/speak in proper Bengali. I am an avid fan of Satyajit ray, Rabindranath Tagore(golpo gucho is my all time favourite), Sunil gangopadhay and others. But if you tell me to go alphabetically from "ko kha.. all the way to the end in sequence".. I won't be able to. But that does not mean I don't have any Bangla proficiency. And my Bangla is much worse than any of the people I have met from Bengali medium..

Infact what you said about Haneef Shonket will also hold true for most south asian languages like Hindi, Gujrati to Tamil. Hardly anyone can go through the letters in a sequence and pronounce everything properly. But those languages are also thriving.

As for why Bangla gets so much importance, you have to understand the historical context. The language movement in 1952 eventually lead to the liberation war and independence, much different from the history of America or any other nation. We are nation based on language and ethnicity, just like Pakistan is based on religion. So it's obvious that people will be sentimental about this. Every country brag about what is important to their history and culture as you will notice from Greece, UK to Japan.

But the sentiment should not tie us down, we can always be good at more than 1 language with proper teaching and schools. In countries like Switzerland, students learn French, German and English in school. So why can't we do the same?

I feel the main problem we have is lack of quality teachers and system. English medium school does not emphasize Bangla enough while Bengali medium schools do not have proper teachers for English. In the end we come out with students who are either proficient in one language or other.
hats off, but at the end of the day, do really think that we as a nation do not require english to prosper? and the way things are heading whats the future?

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs033.snc1/2661_143046475524_623260524_6301759_2237733_n.jpg

the djuice bangla is what most people use if i aint mistaken, like "beshi joss" "kothin whatever"

know what i mean

this is gold :lol:. Can I keep the picture?

...................

I feel the main problem we have is lack of quality teachers and system. English medium school does not emphasize Bangla enough while Bengali medium schools do not have proper teachers for English. In the end we come out with students who are either proficient in one language or other.

That's the bottom line.

this is gold :lol:. Can I keep the picture?



That's the bottom line.
well i dont own the picture, i am sure the owner wont mind :)

hats off, but at the end of the day, do really think that we as a nation do not require english to prosper? and the way things are heading whats the future?

I think you got me wrong, I never said we don't need English. Infact I am one of the biggest proponent of compulsory english in Primary and secondary school. There is no way we can neglect the world language, we will remain backward if we do not emphasize it. One of the reasons Indians are doing well is their relative proficiency in english.

From software development to international business and investment, english is a must for us. Infact I would go as far as saying, all higher education(physics,chemistry, medicine etc) should be taught in English since we don't have proper research materials in Bengali for those subject matters.

All I was saying is, we can have a nation that is proficient in both Bengali and English,as seen in many European countries where students are fluent in multiple langauges. Even in America, a foreign language is encouraged. In Bangladesh what I notice is, english medium students look at Bangla with disdain, most try to speak in "Banglish" and try not go near Bangla literature whereas most Bangla medium students are extremely weak in english and faces a hard time in their life doing business/job with international partners..

I think you got me wrong, I never said we don't need English. Infact I am one of the biggest proponent of compulsory english in Primary and secondary school. There is no way we can neglect the world language, we will remain backward if we do not emphasize it. One of the reasons Indians are doing well is their relative proficiency in english.

From software development to international business and investment, english is a must for us. Infact I would go as far as saying, all higher education(physics,chemistry, medicine etc) should be taught in English since we don't have proper research materials in Bengali for those subject matters.

All I was saying is, we can have a nation that is proficient in both Bengali and English,as seen in many European countries where students are fluent in multiple langauges. Even in America, a foreign language is encouraged. In Bangladesh what I notice is, english medium students look at Bangla with disdain, most try to speak in "Banglish" and try not go near Bangla literature whereas most Bangla medium students are extremely weak in english and faces a hard time in their life doing business/job with international partners..

Spot on! :okay:

I think you got me wrong, I never said we don't need English. Infact I am one of the biggest proponent of compulsory english in Primary and secondary school. There is no way we can neglect the world language, we will remain backward if we do not emphasize it. One of the reasons Indians are doing well is their relative proficiency in english.

From software development to international business and investment, english is a must for us. Infact I would go as far as saying, all higher education(physics,chemistry, medicine etc) should be taught in English since we don't have proper research materials in Bengali for those subject matters.

All I was saying is, we can have a nation that is proficient in both Bengali and English,as seen in many European countries where students are fluent in multiple langauges. Even in America, a foreign language is encouraged. In Bangladesh what I notice is, english medium students look at Bangla with disdain, most try to speak in "Banglish" and try not go near Bangla literature whereas most Bangla medium students are extremely weak in english and faces a hard time in their life doing business/job with international partners..

can you blame them for this? one of my uncles who grew up in the 80's was telling me that the back then btv used broadcast english programs and so on thats what inspired them to learn the language, then again the only time i studied bengali literature was in grade school to pass bengali the teachers never emphasized on it and were quite happy to get over and done, they never showed us how great or indepth bengali literature was all we knew that rabindranath a bengali novelist won the nobel prize for literature so just like me most of my class mates where least bothered about bengali literature and focused more on english, another prime reason for focusing on english was to be eligible for univs abroad because we knew trying for buet or du would have been futile and the hard work in the end wouldnt have been worth it and nsu and co were a major no

I am sure you know that if an english medium student wanted to get admitted into buet or du or any government institution baring IBA (the upsurge in english med students is very recent) it is an uphill task for them, it would be easier for them to get into a foreign institution and even get scholarship where as buet/du wouldn't even count it to eligible to entry

i wonder where are the so called scholars and protectors of bengali now they have tried to force english out and now look at it looks like people are slowly pushing bengali out

when i did ielts mock exams, most of the students with were regreting being in bengali medium as scoring 7 and above was an extremely difficult job for them

then again its just my two cents

but i do see bengali loosing out in the long run, look at metro india esp calcutta, the new generation there is more fluent in hindi and english then bengali, i may be wrong because i only encountered a little number of people during my trip.

Spot on! :okay:
but i just dont understand why you think that it isnt necessary for us to learn english to prosper

can you blame them for this? one of my uncles who grew up in the 80's was telling me that the back then btv used broadcast english programs and so on thats what inspired them to learn the language, then again the only time i studied bengali literature was in grade school to pass bengali the teachers never emphasized on it and were quite happy to get over and done, they never showed us how great or indepth bengali literature was all we knew that rabindranath a bengali novelist won the nobel prize for literature so just like me most of my class mates where least bothered about bengali literature and focused more on english, another prime reason for focusing on english was to be eligible for univs abroad because we knew trying for buet or du would have been futile and the hard work in the end wouldnt have been worth it and nsu and co were a major no

I am sure you know that if an english medium student wanted to get admitted into buet or du or any government institution baring IBA (the upsurge in english med students is very recent) it is an uphill task for them, it would be easier for them to get into a foreign institution and even get scholarship where as buet/du wouldn't even count it to eligible to entry

i wonder where are the so called scholars and protectors of bengali now they have tried to force english out and now look at it looks like people are slowly pushing bengali out

when i did ielts mock exams, most of the students with were regreting being in bengali medium as scoring 7 and above was an extremely difficult job for them

then again its just my two cents

but i do see bengali loosing out in the long run, look at metro india esp calcutta, the new generation there is more fluent in hindi and english then bengali, i may be wrong because i only encountered a little number of people during my trip.

I went to Scholastica myself and I can say for sure that 100% of the students can speak in Bangla without adding random english words if they want to. I can understand if people cannot read literature of Rabindranath Tagore due to lack of proper Bangla education. But it's absurd to think that someone will have hard time talking in Bangla while surrounded by 150 million people speaking the same language at every walk of life.

I also know pretty well, why some english medium students try to speak in "Banglish".. that's because of the "coolness" tied to it.I don't blame them for it, this is a very common thing among the elites/upper class of developing countries. It's seen in other underdeveloped countries like Nigeria, Nepal or India. But less common in developed nations like France, Japan where they are proud of their language and culture more. They use english solely as a means of communication.

I do agree that Bangla is not taught properly in English medium schools. That's because the system is British, infact I read more about English history than Bangladeshi one during my school days. One of the main difference in our system compared to India is, over there the English medium schools are also under the Indian government and follows the same curriculam, just the mode of instruction is different. I hardly met any Indians who have gone to Cambridge/London board, which is more popular in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Secondly,in India Hindi is the national language so it's understandable if Calcutta people are moving towards that. In Pakistan, Pashtos and Punjabis also know more Urdu than their own mother tongue. But in Bangladesh,we have one language so that factor is not even there.

Anyhow,english should be taught from primary school to university and our standard needs to improve drastically, but it does not necessarily need to be at the exchange of Bangla.There are so many countries including Switzerland, Russia and India, where students learn more than one language in depth.

Also, I think that we need a unified education system which will be under the Dhaka Board(Bangladesh board), but can have 2 modes of instruction. One in english the other in Bangla. That way, students of one system won't have hard time in getting into universities like BUET and Dhaka Medical college. One of the main reasons English medium students struggle to get in is because our Cambridge system allows the flexibility to choose any subjects for Alevel. Example you can have English, History and Physics as subjects. No one is forced to take "Physics" Chemistry and Maths for pursuing Engineering, whereas the admission tests in Bangladeshi engineering schools needs knowledge on all 3 areas..

but i just dont understand why you think that it isnt necessary for us to learn english to prosper

Precisely because the notion of one's prosperity is dependent upon the fluency and grasp of English language, is a false one. If you think that only IT(information technology),for which you believe English is compulsory, is the sole pathway to success (prosperity), then countries like Brazil and China must still be as under developed and far from being industrialized.

Perhaps in the early days of development of IT, knowledge of the English language may have provided a definitive advantage since IT and the Silicone Valley were synonymous, such is no longer the case. Today, a tremendous amount of software are being developed and produced in non English speaking countries like Israel, Russia, and many eastern European countries. You must have heard of SAP? Do you know where it is from (which country)? Same is true for computer hardware manufacturing, the bulk of which is done in China, Taiwan, and Korea.

Perhaps in the early days of development of IT, knowledge of the English language may have provided a definitive advantage since IT and the Silicone Valley were synonymous, such is no longer the case. Today, a tremendous amount of software are being developed and produced in non English speaking countries like Israel, Russia, and many eastern European countries. You must have heard of SAP? Do you know where it is from (which country)? Same is true for computer hardware manufacturing, the bulk of which is done in China, Taiwan, and Korea.

I feel that Russians, Germans and Israelies all have better English skills than average Bangladeshis.. I worked very closely with large scale SAP implementation in collaboration with german colleagues and they were very fluent in English. Infact I was in Switzerland and Germany just couple of weeks back... in big cities like Zurich, Berlin almost 70-80% communicate very well in English.

I am not saying that English is a must, but it can hasten development to a certain extent. Bangladesh's closest comparison are India, Srilanka and Pakistan, and they have all made significant progress in English over the years, impacting their overall growth and investment climate. Infact China has recently focus on english education aswell as they are coming up from a low end manufacturing country to a more service oriented one. One of the main reason why english speaking HK is so well placed.

We need to have balance between Bangla and English and focus on learning both. Afterall scientific research has shown that bilingual students are better off on the long run and even have higher IQ on average!

I feel that Russians, Germans and Israelies all have better English skills than average Bangladeshis.. I worked very closely with large scale SAP implementation in collaboration with german colleagues and they were very fluent in English. Infact I was in Switzerland and Germany just couple of weeks back... in big cities like Zurich, Berlin almost 70-80% communicate very well in English.

No doubt, but I have come across some Russians and Israelis who hardly had any fluency in English yet were brilliant programmers. They needed others to assist them with presentations and as such. While you can almost take for granted that an average western European person will know basic English, you cannot count on the same, for an average Russian. In most western European countries nearly all school children learn English from middle school onwards (if not earlier), as they are required to learn one or two foreign languages. No such requirements were there for Russian school children. I heard on the radio the other day, they are thinking about doing so, now.


I am not saying that English is a must, but it can hasten development to a certain extent. Bangladesh's closest comparison are India, Srilanka and Pakistan, and they have all made significant progress in English over the years, impacting their overall growth and investment climate. Infact China has recently focus on english education aswell as they are coming up from a low end manufacturing country to a more service oriented one. One of the main reason why english speaking HK is so well placed.

That exactly is the point I was trying to get across, that it is NOT a must. Surely, it will help and perhaps hasten the pace in certain areas but again, it is not a must.

My personal experience in Hong Kong? I did not come across a single cabbie who understood English. Perhaps Murphy's Law struck me there.


We need to have balance between Bangla and English and focus on learning both. Afterall scientific research has shown that bilingual students are better off on the long run and even have higher IQ on average!

No arguments there.

Why do you guys think new generations in calcutta are more interested in learning hindi and english than bangla? I think it is not true. Well, after a long time people here realized that english is important. Though you hardly find a bengali guy(new generation) here(except some "probashi") who doesn't read/write bengali or doesn't watch bengali movies or doesn't love Rabindrasangeet. Bengali is thriving here. :)

Why do you guys think new generations in calcutta are more interested in learning hindi and english than bangla? I think it is not true. Well, after a long time people here realized that english is important. Though you hardly find a bengali guy(new generation) here(except some "probashi") who doesn't read/write bengali or doesn't watch bengali movies or doesn't love Rabindrasangeet. Bengali is thriving here. :)

Actually, only one person among us has such perception based on his observations, which I do not believe is correct, but I have no way of corroborating my assumption since the last time I was in Kolkata, I was in elementary school. I do however, have many friends and relatives from across the border (Bangladesh) and through them I gather the pride of being a Bangalee and love for Bangla is very much alive and thriving.

BTW, how is the Bangla movie industry in Kolkata (WB)? Is it pretty dead like in Bangladesh, thanks to Bollywood and ZEE TV?

Actually, only one person among us has such perception based on his observations, which I do not believe is correct, but I have no way of corroborating my assumption since the last time I was in Kolkata, I was in elementary school. I do however, have many friends and relatives from across the border (Bangladesh) and through them I gather the pride of being a Bangalee and love for Bangla is very much alive and thriving.

BTW, how is the Bangla movie industry in Kolkata (WB)? Is it pretty dead like in Bangladesh, thanks to Bollywood and ZEE TV?

Did you check out Monpura. I heard its really good.

http://www.thefinancialexpress-bd.com/search_index.php?page=detail_news&news_id=63252

Did you check out Monpura. I heard its really good.

http://www.thefinancialexpress-bd.com/search_index.php?page=detail_news&news_id=63252

Unless I get to watch it on Channel-i, it'll probably be a while. All the Bangladeshi stores (that sell/rent movies) are in Hamtramack, which is quite a distance from me. Thanks for the recommendation.

I went to Scholastica myself and I can say for sure that 100% of the students can speak in Bangla without adding random english words if they want to. I can understand if people cannot read literature of Rabindranath Tagore due to lack of proper Bangla education. But it's absurd to think that someone will have hard time talking in Bangla while surrounded by 150 million people speaking the same language at every walk of life.

i beg to differ, i have quite a lot of friends from there, i personally went to mastermind from what i saw and "experienced" english gets more preference and its not like they use the odd word or a couple of words, and most bengali medium students i know off use the "djuice" bangla

I also know pretty well, why some english medium students try to speak in "Banglish".. that's because of the "coolness" tied to it.I don't blame them for it, this is a very common thing among the elites/upper class of developing countries. It's seen in other underdeveloped countries like Nigeria, Nepal or India. But less common in developed nations like France, Japan where they are proud of their language and culture more. They use english solely as a means of communication.

i doubt they use it to be kewl, banglish is more like "chalito bhasha"

I do agree that Bangla is not taught properly in English medium schools. That's because the system is British, infact I read more about English history than Bangladeshi one during my school days. One of the main difference in our system compared to India is, over there the English medium schools are also under the Indian government and follows the same curriculam, just the mode of instruction is different. I hardly met any Indians who have gone to Cambridge/London board, which is more popular in Pakistan and Bangladesh.

It makes me wonder too why they govt doesnt step in, it will save a lot of money and the government can earn a lot of money this way i wonder why hasnt the finance minister ever thought of this

Secondly,in India Hindi is the national language so it's understandable if Calcutta people are moving towards that. In Pakistan, Pashtos and Punjabis also know more Urdu than their own mother tongue. But in Bangladesh,we have one language so that factor is not even there.

why only them, i knew so many tamils and malaylis who coudlnt understand a word of hindi

Anyhow,english should be taught from primary school to university and our standard needs to improve drastically, but it does not necessarily need to be at the exchange of Bangla.There are so many countries including Switzerland, Russia and India, where students learn more than one language in depth.

werd!

Also, I think that we need a unified education system which will be under the Dhaka Board(Bangladesh board), but can have 2 modes of instruction. One in english the other in Bangla. That way, students of one system won't have hard time in getting into universities like BUET and Dhaka Medical college. One of the main reasons English medium students struggle to get in is because our Cambridge system allows the flexibility to choose any subjects for Alevel. Example you can have English, History and Physics as subjects. No one is forced to take "Physics" Chemistry and Maths for pursuing Engineering, whereas the admission tests in Bangladeshi engineering schools needs knowledge on all 3 areas..

I never said that bangla is dieing out, it is on the decline and the way things are heading i dont see a good future, dont you think thats discrimination any how its their loss thats how i see it they couldnt earned a lot they are missing out.

Precisely because the notion of one's prosperity is dependent upon the fluency and grasp of English language, is a false one. If you think that only IT(information technology),for which you believe English is compulsory, is the sole pathway to success (prosperity), then countries like Brazil and China must still be as under developed and far from being industrialized.

Perhaps in the early days of development of IT, knowledge of the English language may have provided a definitive advantage since IT and the Silicone Valley were synonymous, such is no longer the case. Today, a tremendous amount of software are being developed and produced in non English speaking countries like Israel, Russia, and many eastern European countries. You must have heard of SAP? Do you know where it is from (which country)? Same is true for computer hardware manufacturing, the bulk of which is done in China, Taiwan, and Korea.

from my personal experience every time i went on a trip to shenzen and talked with factory managers they spoke pretty good english and as far as i know china is more hardware then software as for brazil i dont know all i know is they got hawt hoochie mamis and loads of sunshine.

wasnt SAP founded by engineers from IBM? and as far as i remeber sap.com is in english

i wonder why they arent selling the chinese or korean version of softwares world wide, they dont need to hire translators or produce english softwares would have saved them a lot of money

i havent heard of a computer language that doesnt use english i may be wrong i am n00b in computer world.

Why do you guys think new generations in calcutta are more interested in learning hindi and english than bangla? I think it is not true. Well, after a long time people here realized that english is important. Though you hardly find a bengali guy(new generation) here(except some "probashi") who doesn't read/write bengali or doesn't watch bengali movies or doesn't love Rabindrasangeet. Bengali is thriving here. :)

two words experience, last time i went there in 03, the people i encountered were very fluent in hindi and used a lot of hindi, where as most tamils i know of can hardly speak a word of hindi, and punjabis will speak to you in punjabi even if you speak in hindi with them

Anyways, coming back to the topic. I believe the following actions will be beneficial for the country:

1) One Integrated educational system, which will have Bangla and English medium schools all under the same curriculam and board. The syllabus and subjects should be identical only the language of instruction will be different. This will help the students to get admitted to any national universities and maintain unified standard all across.

2) Higher education should be completely in English since there is not sufficient research materials in Bangla on Physics, Chemistry or Biology. During the hay days of the Islamic empire, even Europeans came to Baghdad to acquire knowledge in arabic.

3) The standard of english needs to be drastically improved in the Bengali medium schools.So that these students can prosper in International business when they grow up.

...............................

BTW, how is the Bangla movie industry in Kolkata (WB)? Is it pretty dead like in Bangladesh, thanks to Bollywood and ZEE TV?

last good kolkata I have seen is "Nishi Japon". Story: Nayeem's favourite - Sunil Gangopadhay

last good kolkata I have seen is "Nishi Japon". Story: Nayeem's favourite - Sunil Gangopadhay

Thanks for the info. I'll try to check it out.

Another bangla movie recommendation....... "Padma Nadir Majhi" (Story: Manik Banerji Direction: Goutam Ghose Year: 1992). Full of stars from both Bengals. Takes you back in time to Manik Banerji's East Bengal.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107767/

You may find it a little depressing at times .... If you like "Angela's Ashes" type movies, you will like it.

Before visiting Bangladesh I expected that vast majority of Bangladeshi population speak at least decent English, but this was proven wrong. Here I mingled alot mostly with highly-educated Bangladeshis , whom for sure speak good to excellent English. That's the reason for having such a high expectation.

However, the best non-native English speakers I've met in my whole life are the two middle-school boys I chatted with in Chapai Nawabganj.

two words experience, last time i went there in 03, the people i encountered were very fluent in hindi and used a lot of hindi, where as most tamils i know of can hardly speak a word of hindi, and punjabis will speak to you in punjabi even if you speak in hindi with them

Yes, most people here are very fluent in Hindi. This is not a recent thing(Probably from last 200 years). Kolkata is not only a Bengali's city. 30%(more or less) of the city's population is non-bengali. Thats why Hindi/English is widely used. But you hardly find two Bengali guys talking in hindi.

BTW, how is the Bangla movie industry in Kolkata (WB)? Is it pretty dead like in Bangladesh, thanks to Bollywood and ZEE TV?

Kolkata movie industry was effected mainly by 70-80’s political turmoil and fund problem during the communist era and little because of Bollywood. But it always remains home(along with Kerela) of India’s parallel movie Industry. Even during the tuff political economic phase Kolkata has produced some of the great movies. And with recent corporate (like utv/reliance etc) involvement and with the booming multiplex culture it is giving a boost to the commercial movies.

last good kolkata I have seen is "Nishi Japon". Story: Nayeem's favourite - Sunil Gangopadhay

There are many good movies in recent time. I remember few like Kaalbela, Anthahin, Dosar, Chokher Bali, Kaalpurus, Anuranan, Mahulbanir Sereng, Antarmahal, Bong Connection, Chalo lets go, 15- Park Avenue, Tintorator Jishu, Khela etc. :cheers:

..................................

There are many good movies in recent time. I remember few like Kaalbela, Anthahin, Dosar, Chokher Bali, Kaalpurus, Anuranan, Mahulbanir Sereng, Antarmahal, Bong Connection, Chalo lets go, 15- Park Avenue, Tintorator Jishu, Khela etc. :cheers:

Wow... nice list there. I have seen a Chokher Bali (Story: Tagore | Aishwarya Rai, Raima Sen, .....) and Antarmahal. I Liked them very much. I'll look for the others too. I know I'm falling behind.

but i just dont understand why you think that it isnt necessary for us to learn english to prosper

Bangla language is the foundation of our Bengali culture. However, Chemistry, Physics, Biology, Astronomy they are all in English. Subjects and fields which are in English cannot be translated to Bangla; no one will do it. An average person from Bangladesh will choose English over Bangla, because learning English will give that person the opportunity to put food on the family table. Survival is important and a person who can speak, read, and write English fluently can survive better than a person who doesn't know English.

English is a must, because English-medium institutions are setup already. You have to change with the world. If you are arrogant with Bengali nationalism, and refuse to learn English then you may as well stay in the villages and live out your life there.

Bangla will always be our language, it defines our culture. But because of this imperious notion toward Bangla, Bangladeshi content doesn't get far, and it never will. A great example will be Indians, here in Atlanta, Indians are so good in English they have dominated in every field I can think of, every month I open a magazine I see an Indian getting an achievement award in some field. Indians are smart people, they know what their resources are and they master it.

Indians know English is important, why are Bangladeshis that clueless and don't realize it? Because of 1952??? Oh please, no one is shoving down Hindi/Urdu in our throats anymore, were doing that ourselves.

Young Bengalis are learning Hindi from Bollywood. I ask one of my nephews if he knows Hindi, and he jumps with excitement and says yes I do from Indian channels...what does that show?

But getting back to subject if you don't master English, then you're only shooting yourself in the leg. By learning English doesn't mean you have to forget Bangla. I grew up in America and I don't know that much Bangla but I bought myself a English-to-Bangla book and I'm teaching myself Bangla and I will make sure my kids know Bangla fluently. Dump the sorry Bengali nationalism, you just have to make smart decisions. And learning both English and Bangla is a smart decision.



Yes, most people here are very fluent in Hindi. This is not a recent thing(Probably from last 200 years). Kolkata is not only a Bengali's city. 30%(more or less) of the city's population is non-bengali. Thats why Hindi/English is widely used. But you hardly find two Bengali guys talking in hindi.


You're absolutely right, I refuse to speak Hindi with another Bengali-only with Indo-Pakis, sometimes may be English, but with Bengalis I will speak Bangla.

Bangla language is the foundation of our Bengali culture. However, Chemistry, Physics, Biology, Astronomy they are all in English. Subjects and fields which are in English cannot be translated to Bangla; no one will do it. An average person from Bangladesh will choose English over Bangla, because learning English will give that person the opportunity to put food on the family table. Survival is important and a person who can speak, read, and write English fluently can survive better than a person who doesn't know English.

English is a must, because English-medium institutions are setup already. You have to change with the world. If you are arrogant with Bengali nationalism, and refuse to learn English then you may as well stay in the villages and live out your life there.

Bangla will always be our language, it defines our culture. But because of this imperious notion toward Bangla, Bangladeshi content doesn't get far, and it never will. A great example will be Indians, here in Atlanta, Indians are so good in English they have dominated in every field I can think of, every month I open a magazine I see an Indian getting an achievement award in some field. Indians are smart people, they know what their resources are and they master it.

Indians know English is important, why are Bangladeshis that clueless and don't realize it? Because of 1952??? Oh please, no one is shoving down Hindi/Urdu in our throats anymore, were doing that ourselves.

Young Bengalis are learning Hindi from Bollywood. I ask one of my nephews if he knows Hindi, and he jumps with excitement and says yes I do from Indian channels...what does that show?

But getting back to subject if you don't master English, then you're only shooting yourself in the leg. By learning English doesn't mean you have to forget Bangla. I grew up in America and I don't know that much Bangla but I bought myself a English-to-Bangla book and I'm teaching myself Bangla and I will make sure my kids know Bangla fluently. Dump the sorry Bengali nationalism, you just have to make smart decisions. And learning both English and Bangla is a smart decision.





You're absolutely right, I refuse to speak Hindi with another Bengali-only with Indo-Pakis, sometimes may be English, but with Bengalis I will speak Bangla.
very well said!

then again he doesnt want to admit that far more bengalis in west bengal are learning hindi and adapting it, then other non hindi speaking states, i have hardly come across a tamil or malu who speaks hindi some cant even speak it dont even want to learn it

Learning english does not have to come at the cost of Bengali. Infact research has shown that multi lingual children have better chance of succeeding in school as well as professional life. The average score in scholastic test is also higher. Infact in many countries, students are brought up to learn 2-3 languages, Switzerland is a good example.

Problem with Bangladeshi educational system is, Bangla medium students even lack the basic in english whereas english medium students can hardly read in Bangla let alone read.

Also, outside of school I think English should be the lingua franca, as it's truly a global language and with increased international commerce there is no other alternative.

Learning english does not have to come at the cost of Bengali. Infact research has shown that multi lingual children have better chance of succeeding in school as well as professional life. The average score in scholastic test is also higher. Infact in many countries, students are brought up to learn 2-3 languages, Switzerland is a good example.

Problem with Bangladeshi educational system is, Bangla medium students even lack the basic in english whereas english medium students can hardly read in Bangla let alone read.

Also, outside of school I think English should be the lingua franca, as it's truly a global language and with increased international commerce there is no other alternative.

u meant, let alone 'write'?

Learning english does not have to come at the cost of Bengali. Infact research has shown that multi lingual children have better chance of succeeding in school as well as professional life. The average score in scholastic test is also higher. Infact in many countries, students are brought up to learn 2-3 languages, Switzerland is a good example.

Problem with Bangladeshi educational system is, Bangla medium students even lack the basic in english whereas english medium students can hardly read in Bangla let alone read.

Also, outside of school I think English should be the lingua franca, as it's truly a global language and with increased international commerce there is no other alternative.
not according to the supporters of bangla, if people wanna do business with us they gots to learn bangla or else take the high way!

not according to the supporters of bangla, if people wanna do business with us they gots to learn bangla or else take the high way!

Maybe the policy makers are themselves not competent in English, thus they are worried about running the country in a language they are not fluent..

Maybe the policy makers are themselves not competent in English, thus they are worried about running the country in a language they are not fluent..
its not the policy makers its shonskiritibids who go beserk when you say people need to learn english.

they go like "aamra ki rookto diyechi amader bhobishot ke onno bhasha shikahte"

era ekatur er chetona bhulte bosheche and shit like that

btw is your name mishu?

Problem with Bangladeshi educational system is, Bangla medium students even lack the basic in english whereas english medium students can hardly read in Bangla let alone read.

Also, outside of school I think English should be the lingua franca, as it's truly a global language and with increased international commerce there is no other alternative.

What do you mean by the last sentence? I didnt catch you. We should talk to each other in English? The government should adress ppl in English? TV shows and signboards should be in English?

I agree with your first part. I cant comprehend how Bangla medium students who learn english for 12 years lack the basic in english whereas English medium students who live in "Bangla"desh, are born into Bengali families and learn Bangla till class 10 cant construct a proper sentence in Bangal. I guess we are just dumb ppl. But there is ray of light. These days I see both English and Bangla medium kids fluent in both languages. They are few in number though.

What do you mean by the last sentence? I didnt catch you. We should talk to each other in English? The government should adress ppl in English? TV shows and signboards should be in English?

I agree with your first part. I cant comprehend how Bangla medium students who learn english for 12 years lack the basic in english whereas English medium students who live in "Bangla"desh, are born into Bengali families and learn Bangla till class 10 cant construct a proper sentence in Bangal. I guess we are just dumb ppl. But there is ray of light. These days I see both English and Bangla medium kids fluent in both languages. They are few in number though.
exceptions arent examples

english should be given a lot of importance, look dude we are beggers and we cant be choosers, we cant make the world communicate with us in bengali

look dude we are beggers and we cant be choosers, we cant make the world communicate with us in bengali

When did I say that?

What do you mean by the last sentence? I didnt catch you. We should talk to each other in English? The government should adress ppl in English? TV shows and signboards should be in English?

I agree with your first part. I cant comprehend how Bangla medium students who learn english for 12 years lack the basic in english whereas English medium students who live in "Bangla"desh, are born into Bengali families and learn Bangla till class 10 cant construct a proper sentence in Bangal. I guess we are just dumb ppl. But there is ray of light. These days I see both English and Bangla medium kids fluent in both languages. They are few in number though.

I meant english should be widely used as a formal language of communication at universities, judicial system and private business(banks, telecommunication, pharmaceutical firms etc). Road signs can be in both Bangla and English, this will be helpful as tourism sector grows..

As for your second question, the answer is simple. You need good teachers, curriculam and emphasis on a subject, for the general students to perform well. Bangla medium is lagging in all 3 areas for english language, while English medium schools are short on the last 2 aspects in regards to Bangla.

When did I say that?
well the way you were heading i thought you eventually would!

I meant english should be widely used as a formal language of communication at universities, judicial system and private business(banks, telecommunication, pharmaceutical firms etc). Road signs can be in both Bangla and English, this will be helpful as tourism sector grows..


Judicial sytem? How would you expect the goru wala to present his case in English? The krishok would come to the police station and say "Hello Mr.Officer I want to lodge a case"? Most businesses I know use english as means of communication. But if you are implying that colleagues talk amongst themselves in English all the time. Its a bit far-fetched. So is if you expect telecommunication customer reps to talk to every customer in english. The cell-phone customer centers are pretty professional these days anyway.

As for tourism our country is pretty english friendly actually. My friend went to China and Vietnam. Boy did he have a hard time. Same case with my uncle who went to Iran.

well the way you were heading i thought you eventually would!

Dont assume. Read, comprehend, reply.

Dont assume. Read, comprehend, reply.
if you observe a few conversations i had on this subject in the forum this is what the opponents said that we dont need to learn english to prosper those who want to trade with us should learn bangla.

if you observe a few conversations i had on this subject in the forum this is what the opponents said that we dont need to learn english to prosper those who want to trade with us should learn bangla.

They can go suck an egg for all I care. But when adressing me understand what view-point I am taking then reply. :)

They can go suck an egg for all I care. But when adressing me understand what view-point I am taking then reply. :)
my bad,

so are you pro or anti english?

Uhmm pro? Read my posts a few posts up.

Judicial sytem? How would you expect the goru wala to present his case in English? The krishok would come to the police station and say "Hello Mr.Officer I want to lodge a case"? Most businesses I know use english as means of communication. But if you are implying that colleagues talk amongst themselves in English all the time. Its a bit far-fetched. So is if you expect telecommunication customer reps to talk to every customer in english. The cell-phone customer centers are pretty professional these days anyway.

As for tourism our country is pretty english friendly actually. My friend went to China and Vietnam. Boy did he have a hard time. Same case with my uncle who went to Iran.

Bangladesh's legal system just like India/Pakistan's is based on "British common law", also even if the proceedings are conducted in English, the defendent or the plaintiff can speak in Bengali. Also, maybe there can be a middle ground, hold the lower court activities in Bangla and use English for High court and Suprement court decisions?

Our examples should be India,Pakistan,Nigeria etc which were British colonies and english is widely understood not Iran or China.

Just to compare with the process in India:

India''s legal system is based on English Common Law, Indian legal training is conducted solely in English, Appellate and Supreme Court proceedings take place exclusively in English, and legal opinions are written exclusively in English. Virtually all Indian lawyers are conversant with the UK legal system.
http://www.shvoong.com/humanities/1635414-legal-process-outsourcing/

Infact legal works from around the world are being outsourced to India as a result of this.

I am not saying colleagues should be conversing with each other in english, but gradually the formal interaction with business partners can be done in english.

Also, everything needs to be implemented in a step by step way. We cannot just stop use of Bangla today, it will create caos and huge uproar. Gradually by improving the standard of english we can move towards that direction.

Also, just because I am advocating English doesn't mean Bangla should be ignored. As our mother tongue we should put due emphasis on it as well. Even Olevel, Alevel students should have the ability to read and write bangla properly. There is nothing to be proud of not knowing one's own language.

I am not saying colleagues should be conversing with each other in english, but gradually the formal interaction with business partners can be done in english.


Dont we do that anyway? Most ppl I know talk in English with their foreign business partners.

Also I have heard from certain sources that because of the lack of entertainment in our country (Clubs, alcohol, bars) a lot of investors dont want to come here. So government is building something in the EPZ for the foreign investors only that will have booze, casinos and other types of noshtami.

Dont we do that anyway? Most ppl I know talk in English with their foreign business partners.


Not just foreign business partners,I think we should spread it in the corporate meetings within local companies aswell.Also spoken english is so weak among most managers that they struggle while presenting themselves to foreign clients....

Been sitting on the sideline for a while, but no more !

English is not required for economical progress but is nice to know ( Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, China, Brazil).
During the time of British Raj knowing English allowed you to converse with "Shahebs" and in turn brought a certain social stature. The Brits are gone , but not the eliteness.
Being multi-lingual certainly has advantages, and quite an achievement when you master it, but not required as I stated before. To this day Japan still hires college graduates from the English speaking world to teach English in Japan !!! I don't think anybody doubts their monumental accomplishments.


In the early middle ages the Europeans were far behind the Arabs ( Yes, it is true) The Europeans didn't learn Arabic, but a few did and translated the Arabic knowledge into Latin. Latin was the written language in Europe until the 16th century. To read and write in those days you had to study Latin. Latin was the Language of the dominant Catholic Church. Its no wonder that almost all the early Renaissance men were from the Church or Nobles. But Latin started to lose its prominence to native languages as because local language disseminated the knowledge faster after translation. The rest is history.

It is much easier to translate a book and make it available for the population than to teach the population a language.Consider the cost involved of teaching a large population vs the good translation of books. Anybody care to do the math on that one ! I remember the days of DOS. How many people know DOS even in these days? Not many. However, windows on the other hand is very intuitive, easy to learn, and made Bill Gates a very wealthy man ! All Bill Gates did is add local language to Windows library and sold it all over the world
The case of India is very unique. It has many established written and spoken languages. English being a non-native language is very handy to bridge the language gap between different provinces. It is a necessity to know English in India when you work for the Federal Govt. or any Orgt. where people speak different languages. This gave India a certain advantage in Call Center business, however their principle export is off-shored S/W development and export of indigenous S/W . Being involved in IT myself I observed their development from a close proximity.
Bangladesh has only written Bangla. The spoken Bangla only differs in dialects in different regions. ( Sylhet, Dhakiya, Noakhali, Chittagong, Kushtia...). Being homogeneous has its advantages of not dealing with language barriers.

Our achievements over the last decade is not a small matter. In 1991 the per ca-pita income was just about $100 , today its about $700 in real and $1500 in PPP. Once again, not bad at all. IMHO we need good governance for a good ten years, and after that, the chips will start to fall in the right places.

You need English in international trade or any instance when you are dealing with foreign nationals. Beyond that its a personal endeavor.
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Anyone thinks differently ? Speak out now or forever hold your peace !!

Great post fallstuff bhai. :okay:

I realized that a few months back I posted that most ppl talk in English with their business partners. But I went to seminar recently about market potential of Bangladeshi products in Japanese market and what the discussants said was they would need to learn Japanese in order to business with Japanese buyers. I found that pretty interesting

Great post fallstuff bhai. :okay:

I realized that a few months back I posted that most ppl talk in English with their business partners. But I went to seminar recently about market potential of Bangladeshi products in Japanese market and what the discussants said was they would need to learn Japanese in order to business with Japanese buyers. I found that pretty interesting

I wouldn't expect otherwise. As a frequent traveler passing through various Japanese airports, it doesn't appear to me that most Japanese are keen to learn and/or converse in English.

It's ironic that we are all posting in english and making full advantage of this global language in our own career, yet we are saying it's not important.

A language alone can never develop a nation and bring it out of poverty, for that we need good national planning that encourages education, investment, rule of law that will eventually lead to industralization.

Learning english does not need to come at the cost of Bangla, the population can be equally proficient in both given the right environment.

It's ironic that we are all posting in english and making full advantage of this global language in our own career, yet we are saying it's not important.

A language alone can never develop a nation and bring it out of poverty, for that we need good national planning that encourages education, investment, rule of law that will eventually lead to industralization.

Learning english does not need to come at the cost of Bangla, the population can be equally proficient in both given the right environment.

Agree to this. We should learn as many languages as possible...this will only be beneficial for Bangladesh as well as for ourselves. If Japanese don't learn English that is to their detriment...but they have quite enough redeeming qualities, and are sufficiently developed or influential, that they can accomodate such attitude. Bangladesh is in no position to do so. I think Bangladeshis for the 21st century should learn at least English or Chinese to a reasonable degree of competence. There is no reason why we cannot do this while learning and preserving Bangla at the same time.

Let me make myself clear. I do not harbor hostilities towards English language !! English is the unofficial official language of the Global Trade, diplomats, and well known educational institutions. The Global trade will probably come to a halt if English is not used. This is an undisputed fact, and we all agree to to that. It would be an unwise statement to make that a nation can engage in global interactions without English. The wide reach of British Empire firmly established English as the dominant language over the last few hundred years.

My point is English is [U][not required/U] for economical progress. My argument is not mutually exclusive. It is not one or the other.. My point relates to the wider Bangladeshi population and not to urbanized educated few.

Lets consider the Garments Industry. The booming Garments Industry example I am using is not an anomaly or a fluke. Who knows English in that industry ? Not the young girls that actually do the work. Matter of fact only upper mgmt and the pple that negotiate with the foreign buyers are proficient in English or at least know functional English. For these ppl its a cardinal sin not to be proficient in English. If we need more people speaking English the market will decide on a per diem basis and/or by Govt. endeavor.

If someone wants to setup an Auto plant in Bangladesh for local market or Export, same Garments Industry model can be applied here. This is the model that is used all over the world. When I deal with off-shore team in India, I actually deal with one guy. He/she is well versed in English, the ones that work under him/her do not speak good English, however it is not an impeding factor in our business relationship.

As for local Bangladesh market, I don't get how not knowing English can be a factor at all. Enlighten me on that one !

The preferred language of the elite in Bangladesh is English or more like Benglish. This was widely practiced in the Cadet Colleges, I don't know how it is these days. Its a carryover from the British Raj. This phenomena is also pervasive in India and Pakistan . Somehow speaking English is associated with ones ability to do certain things. For the life of me, I do not understand that !!!!

I also believe in reality and deal with it as is, and not what it ought to be. It is important in Bangladesh for an individual to know English to get good jobs or climb up the ladder in their career. The lack of this dogmatic criteria can stigmatize anyone with the proverbial, "Oh he/she doesn't speak good or any English at all." We all can relate to it or know. Just look at the name of the thread itself," The Importance of English in Bangladesh." That alone speaks volume.

The nations that I used in my earlier post barely speak any English. They do ID the key area where they need English or any other foreign language speaking personal. In the late 40's the sub-continent, China, HongKong, Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan were all in the same boat. Well not any longer. Some nations have reached the developed nation status, some are now well on their way, the subcontinent is well behind than any other nation. We, in the sub-continent speak more English than any other non-English speaking country in the world, yet we are called the least developed in the world ( emerging nations to be politically correct :D), well gentlemen, care to explain that ?

I am going drag in Plato in the end. In Bangladesh it is well known and believed that good grasp of English is a key factor in career or that our growth can be further accelerated by wider spread of English. Which is just as real as the people watching the shadows in Plato's "allegory of Cave."



P.S It would be a daunting task to compose the above in Bangla in this forum :D. I do not have a Bangla keyboard, nor do I know how to use one, and anybody reading Bangla would need Bangla fonts in the Windows/Mac Language folder.

Crazy English: How China's language teachers became big celebrities

This year it will be announced that China now has more English speakers than any other country in the world. And such is the demand for their services that top teachers have become big stars.

"Where are you from? Do you speak English?" It's a familiar phrase near the Forbidden City in Beijing, or along the capital's Nanjing Road, as Chinese people try a standard opening gambit to spark up a conversation with a foreigner. Many visitors baulk at being approached so baldly, and are worried that it could be a scam. Very occasionally it is a con – and tourists should be wary when some nice young people offer to bring them to a tea house – but mostly the youngsters are desperate for access to real live Anglophones who can help them improve their conversational English.


Chinese people are becoming more and more obsessed with speaking English, and efforts to improve their proficiency mean that at some stage this year, the world's most populous nation will become the world's largest English-speaking country. Two billion people are learning English worldwide, and a huge proportion of them are in China.

And sometimes it seems like most of these eager students are learning from Li Yang, who is the true folk hero of the English-language-training business. Li founded the "Crazy English" movement, which now involves him visiting a dozen cities a month and lecturing in English to crowds of up to 30,000 people. His books sell in the millions.

The principle is that "you can't learn to swim in a classroom" – so "Crazy English" teaches language learning as a form of mass activity. At a recent tutorial in Beijing, students passed large banners saying, "I can realize all my dreams" before entering the classroom to sample Li's inimitable mixture of English-language teaching and motivational speaking. There is even a touch of the evangelist about him – though he is preaching to the converted – and the enthusiasm of the response is amazing, with plenty of arm-waving, fist-raising and punching the air.

The desire to learn the world's language of commerce is reflected in the way that English is everywhere these days. It's deeply fashionable but also part of a broader goal to encourage greater use of English to help boost China internationally. So the people turn to Li, who started doing this 20 years ago and whose Guangzhou-based business is now vast. "I talk to 10 million people a year, face to face," he says proudly. "Back in 1988, China was in the process of opening up to the outside world but the whole Chinese educational system was based on tests. There were so many people learning English to pass the tests but they couldn't communicate."

There are currently 200 million Chinese at secondary school who are bored with tests, and Li is still trying to change the way people learn to speak English. "This is a new method for Asian people, who are shy and introverted," he explains. "My method can give people confidence very quickly. I try to simplify English for common people. I became an idol and a celebrity for Chinese young people because of this content. People get excited and I also tell them how to face difficulties and obstacles; I combine a lot of things into teaching."

Most of his students are aged between 10 and 40, and they include professionals and students, lawyers and bus drivers. "The older generation is interested, but English is not that useful for them. They have more important things to learn. But basically everyone in China is interested in learning some English," says Li. "It is growing with the openness of China – English is now a required subject. Good English will help you get a better job. There are many different situations that determine Chinese people's craziness for learning English. We waste a lot of time analysing and memorising – it's time- consuming and stupid. My mission is to direct people into learning English."

Most people in China still don't have the opportunity to travel abroad, so they are eager for ways to practise spoken English and correct their mistakes. Li's reading materials contain inspirational – and patriotic – phrases, such as "Help 300 million Chinese people speak English fluently" and "Make the voice of China be widely heard throughout the world". "This is still a poor country, a developing country, and we lag behind in technology," explains this father of four daughters. "I promote hard work and the work ethic. I am described as a patriotic teacher – and I am patriotic because I want to get young people into school and away from video games. I want to kill all video games."

But English proficiency has improved markedly in recent years – and there are a lot more Chinese people learning and speaking English than there are English native-speakers learning Chinese. We should perhaps remember that – despite China's rapid rise to economic dominance – Britain is a long way off the time when an average local copper could spark up a conversation with a visiting Chinese journalist in Mandarin Chinese. Not until our own answer to Li Yang arrives, exhorting the nation to learn Chinese.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/crazy-english-how-chinas-language-teachers-became-big-celebrities-1777545.html

This year it will be announced that China now has more English speakers than any other country in the world. And such is the demand for their services that top teachers have become big stars.

^^ Interesting!

Also point to note Singapore and Hongkong are basically english speaking nations with well over 90% of the population well versed in the language.

Teaching English in Japan is becoming a huge industry. In Japanese high schools and universities, a second language is a prerequisite- and English is the single most taught language in the country. As Japanese businesses interact more and more with the rest of the corporate world, the skill of speaking English is becoming vitally important to the Japanese people.

http://www.eslemployment.com/esl-articles/teaching-english-in-japan.htm

"Round and round" from the 80's is the song that comes to my mind. Don't remember the band name. They were pretty flamboyant. Anyway, we are going to have a another go at it .

Quote:
"Teaching English in Japan is becoming a huge industry. In Japanese high schools and universities, a second language is a prerequisite- and English is the single most taught language in the country. As Japanese businesses interact more and more with the rest of the corporate world, the skill of speaking English is becoming vitally important to the Japanese people. "

I had a friend who taught English in Japan in the early 90's. Japanese have been doing it for a while for different purposes since 1850's. The "Samurai" movie with Tom Cruise actually shows a bit of that. In the U.S, students are required to study a second language from the middle school.
But remember Japan just elected a party that wants to shift the focus to Asia. I wouldn't be surprised if Mandarin becomes the most taught language in Japan.


Quote
"http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...s-1777545.html"
Instead of quoting the entire article, I am quoting the URL, I think the APA people wouldn't mind that much. I will just quote a few lines off the aeticle.


Quote
"This year it will be announced that China now has more English speakers than any other country in the world. And such is the demand for their services that top teachers have become big stars."

There is a difference between functional English speaking and proficient English speaking. The quote doesn't clarify that. India doesn't have a billion people speaking English proficiently, even with English as an official language.


Quote
"Help 300 million Chinese people speak English fluently"

The gentleman making the statement is Li Yang. This man has thousands of seats to fill. I doubt its anything more than a marketing slogan.

Quote
"Where I teach English in China, motivation to learn English is low. The attitude is more sneering than interested and diligent students are socially ridiculed for 'showing off'.
"

This quote is taken from the same url, but from comment section, the third comment to be exact. Even though it is one man's opinion, it offers a reason to explore the issue further. In China English is mandatory as the second language from the primary school level.



Quote:
"Also point to note Singapore and Hongkong are basically English speaking nations with well over 90% of the population well versed in the language."
They are both ex-British colonies. There is nothing unusual about that. Hong Kong was returned to China in 1997 by the Brits.


I didn't see anything in the Independent article that refutes my proposition. Progress has very little to do with a second language and more to do with good governance such as transparency, accountability, and a good sense of fiducial responsibility. In the 90's the Chinese were ruthless and used draconian measures dealing with corruption. They shot hundreds if not thousands of corrupt officials and than billed the families for the cost of the bullet.

We will always need people that speaks excellent English, it is undisputed, and will remain so.

Consider the following,

1. When you learn better English it helps you to communicate better if you are a diplomat, working for a multi-national, or dealing with foreign nationals for any reason.

2.When you learn better English it may improve your social stature, or the chance of getting a good job, or career advancement.

3. Entrepreneurship skills doesn't increase when you learn better English.

4. Management skills doesn't increase when you learn better English.

5. Mathematical, engineering, banking, software programming, accounting skills doesn't increase when you learn better English.

6. Blue collar skills doesn't increase when you learn better English.

7. Heck, even Richshaw pulling skills doesn't increase when you learn better English !

8. 3-7 above, is where we have all the economical activities.

If we are not living in a Banana Republic, the opposites of the above can not be true. Lets us take another look at our good old Bangladesh. The billions of dollar in exports in the garments industry and the billions of dollars in remittance from the middle east has very little to do with speaking better English and everything to do with good business skills, undeniable contribution of the under privileged women, and back-breaking work of NRB in middle east.


P.S "The path to Truth is a difficult one and often confused with illusions". May the force be with you.

I think you have slightly misunderstood the position taken by myself, Tanzarian and others in this thread. No one is saying that a second language be it English or Mandarin is the panacea to all ills in Bangladeshi society. Economic emancipation needs a combination of dozen factors including:

1) High level of literacy(over 90%) + strong secondary and tertiary education system

2) Infrastructure (power,roads, bridges, ports).

3) Good governance (political stability, accountability and open process)

4) Rule of law ( land, labor and information rights need to be rigorously protected to encourage business and investment)

5) Large scale Industralization

There are many other fundamental things like above that needs to be emphasized.

English which is becoming a global language along with Information Technology can act as catalyst in the process of economic development. Just like Hongkong, Singapore and India Bangladesh was also a British colony so we already have some basic knowledge in this aspect, infact our legal system is already based on "British common law", all primary and high school have "English as a second language". So if we enhance the standard, we can use this for better marketability in knowledge based industry like IT or service sector like Tourism. There is no negative impact in learning a global language while keeping Bengali intact.

Infact pre independence, the standard of english(taught as a second language) in Bengali medium school was quite high. All the elderly in my family have great hold of the language even though none of them went to "English Medium" school. Only in the last few decades the standard has dropped drastically, only few schools like Government laboratory, Saint Gregory, Saint Joseph high school have been able to keep the english proficiency of the students intact.

You can compare this to improving Information technology infrastructure. Access to Internet, digitization of land records,electronic bill pay, auction and share exchange can only help in the process of development. It cannot be the single factor that determines the destiny of a country. You won't find any single country, that has become developed just through IT, but does that mean we should just ignore it?

English just like Internet is a window to the rest of the world. Infact it can save a huge amount of pain of translating millions of research papers, journals, books from topics as diverse as medicine, physics, chemistry to various branches of engineering. Bangla Academy cannot even translate all the classic literature of english language on time and it would be herculian task for our government institutions to start translating research of NASA, IBM to CERN in Bengali.

English along with other factors like IT, Infrastructure, political stability should all be emphasized. The combination of all these positive moves will pay dividend sooner than later.

one world one language