Sydney is very fortunante to have a public ferry system which serves people living along the shores of Sydney Harbour and the Parramatta River all the way up to Parramatta along with Darling Harbour services. It can also act as a cheap way to see Sydney. Compared to other modes of transport, it can be pricey but when using tickets such as the bus/train/ferry daytripper ticket, it can be a good way to get around the city.

Here is a map of the network

http://www.sydneybuses.nsw.gov.au/img/ferryNetworkMap.gif

The main termius at Circular Quay also has access to rail and bus services. I have to say this a true transport interchange here in Sydney. Privately operated ferries also operate from Circular Quay

I thought I would start this thread by having a look at the Sydney ferries ferry fleet. It is a bit hard to get details regarding capacity and travel speed, but I'll try and find them where I can particularly in relation to the newer ferries

Sydney Ferries operate 32 ferries over seven classes which are explained below

The Manly Ferry

There are four of these ferries with a capacity of 1200 people and have operated on the network since 1982. The Four ferries are Freshwater, Queenscliff, Narrabeen & Collaroy. The Collaroy can operate ocean services along the Sydney Coastline.

Here is the ferry Freshwater about to dock at Manly Wharf

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid100/p7258da56363bd284775720d35832c40e/f9e2d5fe.jpg

Three Highspeed jetcats (catamarans) operate mainly during the peak hours which take half the time to complete a trip from the City to Manly. A typical ride on the Manly ferry takes 30 minutes but a ride on the jetcat takes 14 minutes (I timed it). A common critism of Jetcats is their ability to handle rough swells when crossing the heads. During high swells, services are often cancelled. The jetcats came into operation in 1990, replacing the Manly Hydrofoils and were supposed to be replaced by supercats back in 2000-01, but the supercats inability to handle swells at the heads mean't the jetcats got to stay as they could handle it better. Seating Capacity is 250. The Jetcats are the Blue Fin, Sir David Martin & Sea Eagle

The Blue Fin at Circular Quay

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid101/pcc3599c0ccb37da6318ab44a396e3934/f9de01a2.jpg

Supercats

The Supercats were supposed to replace the jetcats on the Manly Run back in 2001 but are now confined to inner harbour services after they were found unseaworthy to deal with the swells at the heads. The supercats were also critised for their speed on the Manly Run, taking 20 mins to complete what is supposed to be a fifteen minute run.

Here is the Supercat Mary McKillop

http://www.mattmar.com.au/Ferry_Photos/mary_mackillop.jpg

The Supercat 4 - I wonder what it has been named???

http://www.mattmar.com.au/Ferry_Photos/supercat4.jpg

Harbourcats

The Harbourcats (they are catamarans)were introduced in 1998 to run on inner harbour services and to replace the ageing Lady Class Ferries

The Anne Sergant

http://www.mattmar.com.au/Ferry_Photos/anne_sargeant.jpg

Lady Class

These ferries were introduced in 1968 and at their peak there were seven of them in operation running on the Mosman and Taronga Zoo services. A number also ran on the Manly route in the late 70's and early 80's. Ferry capacity is about 600 but the Lady Northcott can take 800. These ferries were recently given a facelift which will see them sail until 2018

There are only two ferries left; the Lady Herron and Lady Northcott. The Lady Street was pulled out of service last September. The Lady Cutler, Lady McKell, Lady Wakehurst, Lady and Lady Woodard were withdrawn during the mid to late 90's

The Lady Herron at Circular Quay

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid101/p5f88eaff00ac9107d29bc27b42e16873/f9de011f.jpg

Lady Northcott

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid101/p9ed3778fdaf2b495ee5578981b803b64/f9de0004.jpg

First Fleet Class

These ferries first appeared in 1984 and were the first of catamaran style ferries to appear in Sydney. There are nine in operation. These are Sirius, Supply, Alexander, Borrowdale, Charlotte, Fishburn, Golden Grove, Scarborough and Friendship and each ferry has a capacity of 400 and operate on inner harbour services (including Taronga Zoo)and up the Parramatta River as far west as Meadowbank.

The Fishburn approaching Circular Quay

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid101/p1788c463849c2bf2fc2de45aa573b3a7/f9de0104.jpg

Rivercats

The Rivercats first appeared in 1992, when services to the upper reaches of the Parramatta River to Parramatta began. These ferries also serve Homebush Bay and were used to ferry athletes and officials to the 2000 Olympic games at Hombush Bay. Even the flame used to light the cauldron fetched a ride on it. There are four ferries in operation, named after great Athletes which are: Dawn Fraser, Betty Cuthbert, Marlene Matthews and Shane Gould. Each ferry has a capacity of 150 and takes an hour to reach Parramatta

The Shane Gould comes into Circular Quay

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid101/p04da4aafe9171abc81fd5e82ef881577/f9de0091.jpg

What a fantastic thread Fabian.

The Sydney Ferry network is one of the largest in the world, and only a handful of other city's have a similar sized network. Sydney also has the wonderful Circular Quay, which as you pointed out, is an important transport hub, but also, it's a central point where almost all of the ferry's terminate.

And what a view when you arrive in the city!

I have a personal connection with these ferry's, as I used to commute from Manly to the city for four years. And to this date, I havn't found a better commute anywhere else. How can I? Unless I have another ferry trip somewhere (which ain't gonna happen where I live now)

Eventually, I moved to inner Sydney, and my commute was over smokey streets in a bus... what a shame.

Cheers Fabian.

great thread fab! our ferries rock!

how many people use the ferries every year?

You are right on with this post Fabian.Its a 'must do' if visiting Sydney.Anyone who has been to Sydney and not been across the harbour, is a loser!.

Originally posted by chrisaus
how many people use the ferries every year?

Between December 2002 and Deember 2003, Approximately 14 million trips were made on Sydney Ferries.

The Jetcats are pretty funky. Like travelling in a small aircraft.

To get the 'most' out of the ferries for the visitor, both the Manly ferry and the Parra Rivercat are mandatory. Even for the malaised Sydney-sider, these will put some oil in your tank!!

I was watching the poor old Lady Herron chug-a-lugging it from East Circular Quay the other week. Poor old deary. She looked so quaint.

Wish they hadn't cancelled the Kirribilli services. That was a really cute old 'tug' that used to shuttle it.

Noooice pics too Mr Fabian!

Taken out of the running :( Let's just put more cars on the road, shall we? :nuts:

http://tadachi.com/olympics/images/gallery/nsw/city/kirribilli/ferry.jpg

Originally posted by Muse

Wish they hadn't cancelled the Kirribilli services. That was a really cute old 'tug' that used to shuttle it.



They still run timetabled services to Kirribilli. Maybe this was because the specific service running was cancelled for that day. A number of ferries are apparently out of service right now causing disruptions especially the Manly Run with the Collaroy and Queenscliff out of service, and jetcats bought in to minimise any interuption and inconvience to commuters.

Originally posted by Muse

The Jetcats are pretty funky. Like travelling in a small aircraft.


Muse, I also agree with the ride on the jetcat being like that on a small aircraft. I was amazed by the smoothness of the ride the other day and when it crosses the heads, it's like when there is turbelence on the plane for the minute or two it's out on those waters. :)

I stayed with Friends in Manly and using the ferry to get to/from work was excellent. There is also a couple of nice places to get a coffee at the wharf (Manly) for the ride across the harbour.

Catching the jetcat from Manly at night, sitting outside with the wind and the lights of the city should be on everyone's list of things to to.

Tancred

Originally posted by Tancred
I stayed with Friends in Manly and using the ferry to get to/from work was excellent. There is also a couple of nice places to get a coffee at the wharf (Manly) for the ride across the harbour.

Catching the jetcat from Manly at night, sitting outside with the wind and the lights of the city should be on everyone's list of things to to.

Tancred

memory's: there was one stand I would get my coffee every morning before boarding on my way to work. It was a great start to the morning. Standing outside on the deck, looking at Manly cove beach with a smoke (before they banned that even outside) and a coffee.

One particular morning, it was quite stormy, and this was the first or second ferry of the morning. The skipper made an announcement "This is gonna be a bit of a rough ride this morning. I have one word of advice... If you're drinking a cup of coffee or some other drink, either finish it now, or you're be wearing it."

I took his advice... wisely.

Yesterday as part of Australia Day Celebrations, the annual ferry race was held on the harbour. Four First Fleet Class ferries took part in the race which started from the harbour bridge and they had to race to Shark island before returning back to the bridge. The ferries are also decorated and a prize is handed out to the winning ferry. Line honours for 2004 went to Sirus. Congrulations

Just a bit of ferry nostaglia for you all

Here are the some images of the hydrofoils that operated on Sydney Harbour for 25 years on the Manly Run between 1965 and 1991 and revolutionised ferry travel in Sydney, reducing the Manly run to just fifteen minutes which made it by a better alternative to driving (Muse would love that news;) ). This ran alongside the slower steam ferries. They were succeeded by Jetcats in 1990-91

The hydrofoil that began it all - Manly. It only had a capacity of 74 commuters.

http://www.mattmar.com.au/Ferry_Photos/F1000009_manly.jpg

Very plush seating for a commuter service (even better than the jetcats)

http://image.sl.nsw.gov.au/apa/18/d7_18259.jpg

Watch your step guys

http://image.sl.nsw.gov.au/apa/18/d7_18255.jpg

But they evolved and got bigger

The Curl Curl is an example of a typical hydrofoil built in the 1970's. It had a capacity of 140 and ran for 18 years, one of the longest of any of the hydrofoils from 1973 to 1991 (also ran the final hydrofoil service). Fairlight (ii) also lasted 18 years (1966 -84) and was the same make as the Curl Curl. Dee Why and Palm Beach were also in operation during this period.

http://www.mattmar.com.au/Ferry_Photos/curl_curl_ii.jpg

Fairlight (ii)

http://www.mattmar.com.au/Ferry_Photos/fairlight.jpg

The Manly (iv) introduced in 1983 had a seating capacity of 239. It ran until 1991. The Sydney was the only hydrofoil to come into service during the 80's and was the same make

http://www.mattmar.com.au/Ferry_Photos/manly_iv.jpg

The reason why some of the later hydrofoils have numbers in their names was because they were successors to hydrofoils of the same name.

If you have questions, stories, thoughts, information or images, feel free to post them.

I was on board the Jetcat Sea Eagle this morning and it had a (small) mishap this morning.

It rammed into Wharf 2 in Circular Quay, smashing the glass off the handrail. I was sitting on the outside deck and heard a thud. A member of staff at the wharf had the job of cleaning up all the glass.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid104/p9e8c0166bd037cfa77c1e78dfc488849/f99bc388.jpg

A pic of the ferry just 30 mins before

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid104/pcf9307becd7a5d1586c9e34f74d8ce85/f99bc430.jpg

And as for the interior, well I found those footrests to contain life-jackets

Anyway here's a pic of a jetcat interior

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid104/p2ffdc56a85886c53b9e27193a3bf24c6/f99bc46c.jpg

The Lady Herron (below) rammed into Wharf 5 at Circular Quay this morning and this resulted in significant structural damage, to the wharf smashing into a glass ticket window. No one was hurt.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid101/p5f88eaff00ac9107d29bc27b42e16873/f9de011f.jpg

This is the second incident involving a ferry hitting the wharf. Yesterday a rivercat ferry slammed into the wharf at Cockatoo Island, injuring two people.

Looks like Sydneys PT system is really having a miriad of problems all at once.


http://smh.com.au/articles/2004/02/23/1077384677650.htmlSydney ferries cancelled as staff walk off job

February 23, 2004 - 11:26AM

All Sydney Ferries services were cancelled this morning after union members walked off the job, calling for an end to sackings and what they say is harassment and intimidation of workers.

The stop-work meeting followed the dismissal of a casual employee this morning.

A spokeswoman from the Maritime Union of Australia said the members walked off the job about 9.30am (AEDT).

She said the workers would march on the Sydney Ferries office at 11am to demand an end to workers' sackings.

Warren Smith, the union's Sydney assistant secretary, said workers would return to work at 2pm.

He said they were demanding the immediate reinstatement of the employee sacked today.

The union would not say why the man was dismissed.

"The sacking was highly unjustified in relation to activities that occur every day," Mr Smith said.

State Transit's Allan Yates said all ferries services had been cancelled, but shuttle buses would replace services from Manly to Circular Quay.

I find the nature of the strike was done to be totally inapproprate. The Union should give commuters better notice so alternative arrangements can be made, and I thought under the Workplace Relations Act, so called "wildcat" or snap strikes was discouraged to minimise inconvience to customers. At least they were able to provide buses at Manly but leaving everyone else stranded wasn't good. :bash:

At least the strike wasn't over the operation of the network which despite some maintainence problems with ferries eg Queenscliff has operated quite well with ferries running even more reliably than trains.

Some more shots that I have been taking of ferries

I finally have a shot of a Supercat ferry

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid104/pb2dd71f830d6c796e76d1cf6911b1fef/f999253a.jpg

looks very flashy

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p0d23a0b9172187d0e3f2d0e7e4363a39/f9b6388e.jpg

The jetcat in action!!!!

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid105/pc4820372b1f9e96ffd8ec8e38eb2c0d8/f970bb00.jpg

Here's one the Rivercat at Parramatta Wharf

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid115/p254f79cebde94a3b67686eac8fcaca6d/f8c081d9.jpg

Managed this on board the Rivercat Marlene Matthews

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid115/pbe0976291638cbb438e33d1e2e027e66/f8c081ee.jpg

I also found out the Lady Class ferry "Lady Street" which was taken out of service last year will be scuttled and $100 000 in repairs will be made to make it safe before this happens. I hope someone buys it to save it from a watery death.

The hydrofoils were so much fun! Wish they were still around!

I've never taken the trip up to Parramatta by rivercat, can anyone tell me how long the trip takes?

50minutes

And it's an express service as well stopping only at Rydalmere and Parramatta. There is a slower service that stops at other wharves along the river that starts at Rydalmere.

I wish the hydrofoils were still around even if it mean't buying newer versions. They were a much better sight than the jetcats.

I also found some shots of the old Manly ferries, which were larger than their successors with an average of capacity of 1500. It's successors (the ones at present) only carry 1200.

I've seen shots of their interior and commuters virtually travelled in luxury. During the 1920's and 30's there was even on-board entertainment provided. One even had a grand piano. The current fleet even with it's more recent refurbishments to it's interior come nowhere near this.

The North Head - It was around for 70 years, firstly as Barrenjoey between 1913 and 1948 before being re-engined and renamed North Head which was to operate from 1955 and was withdrawn in 1985

http://www.mattmar.com.au/Ferry_Photos/north_head.jpg

South Steyne - 1938 - 1974. A fire ravaged the ferry in 1974 when in dock and was not restored until the mid 1990's. It is now moored at Darling Harbour as a floating restaurant and function centre

http://www.mattmar.com.au/Ferry_Photos/south_steyne.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid103/p026e28b9beb6623228e6804a88d46af9/f9a51f44.jpg

Baragoola 1922-82

http://www.mattmar.com.au/Ferry_Photos/barragoola.jpg

These ferries made certainly made it a golden age for Manly ferry services which won't be surpassed. Even recent refurbishments to the current Manly ferries come nowhere close.

I wouldn't feel comfortable riding in a 60 year old ferry.

I wouldn't feel comfortable riding in a 60 year old ferry.

I'm aware that the older Manly ferries were much more seaworthy than their successors (the current ones) and were better able to cope with the swells that could build up as it crossed the heads.

There are calls for a ferry service to Haberfield to improve public transport within the area.

From The Inner West Courier (www.innerwesterncourier.com.au)

August 2 2004

Traffic fears spark ferry plea
Residents are demanding better public transport to the Inner West, but the State Government has cut rail services.

Report EVAN MISTILIS

A residents group has called for the ferry service to Haberfield to be reinstated before the streets of the Inner West become choked with traffic from the M4 East. A ferry service once came to the mouth of Iron Cove Creek before the canal was reclaimed for an enlarged Timbrell Park.

The Balmain West ferry service now terminates at Birkenhead Wharf, but could
easily be extended to Dobroyd Point to service Haberfield, according to the Combined Residents group to Save Haberfield (CRASH). CRASH argues the M4 East motorway extension will create traffic chaos in the Inner West since much of the traffic on the M4 will pour straight on to the City West link, which is already bumper to bumper during peak hours. Local streets, CRASH said, will also become choked with motorists rat-running to avoid the toll. Motorway contracts routinely give tollway operators exclusive rights for a wide area, prohibiting any new transport lines. A CRASH spokesperson said it is crucial for public transport improvements, such as a ferry service and light rail extensions, to be put in place before the M4 East contracts are signed.

He also called for new express buses to pick up in the Inner West and then travel directly to the city on bus lanes on the City West link. A spokesperson for the Transport Minister, Michael Costa, said that with corporatisation any proposal for new services must under go a business case study.
"The Inner West is very well serviced by public transport and our focus is on serv-
icing areas like Western Sydney," the spokesperson said.

The call for more public transport linkscame in the same week the State Government
axed 1500 train services in Sydney with a new weekend and after-hours timetable.
Mr Costa said the cuts were temporary and aimed at improving train punctuality by freeing drivers for standby duty. Opposition transport spokesperson Michael Gallacher said the State Government was planning for the cuts to be permanent. "I would be satisfied if the Government came out and announced how many drivers they need [to recruit] to resume these services, and give a guarantee that once they reach this number, these services will be restored," Mr Gallacher said.

"Once the public is used to having 1500 less services you will see greater utilisation
of buses re-badged to be CityRail services." He called for a feasibility study on a ferry
service to Haberfield, although it would be harder to lobby for a new service now that
Sydney Ferries has become corporatised. "The future of existing services, let alone
growth, is best described as unclear," Mr Gallacher said.

bump.

Actually while at the Dobroyd Club at Rodd Point, I heard people talking of this service being reinstated once the M4 East is opened. Whether or not if M4 EAST opens, I think the service should have at least two more wharfs...

- At Leichhardt Rowing CLUB, Glover Street
- At UTS Rowing Club at Haberfield with a pedestrian bridge over City West Link.
- And perhaps one at Rodd Point to service Five Dock Residents as well, for thoughts

^ To add, expanding the existing network through Lane Cove River and Middle Harbour is also an interesting proposition...

Middle Harbour Service to either Manly/Circular Quay or even both. Stopping at:
- Parr Point terminus at Killarney Heights (near the Roseville Bridge)
- Pickering Point, Gurney Crescent, Seaforth
- Quakers Hat Bay, Carrington Av, Mosman
- Clontarf Pools
- Balmoral, Botanic Road, Hunters Bay
- Then either join to Manly/Circular Quay existing route

Lane Cove River to Circular Quay (extension of existing Woolwich Service) stopping at:
- Boronia Park, Princes St, Hunters Hill
- Riverview, Tambourine Bay Road Wharf
- Alexandra St Wharf, Hunters Hill
- Longueville Wharf, Stuart St
- Northwood Wharf, Northwood Road
- Then continue service from Woolwich Wharf to Circular Quay

Iemma is thinking of privitising the ferries. Bad move :bash:

From The Sydney Morning Herald (smh.com.au)

Troubled ferries to face big shake-up
Alexandra Smith and Jordan Baker
April 4, 2007

SYDNEY FERRIES faces a shake-up including an overhaul of operations and possible privatisation after the Iemma Government ordered an inquiry into its woeful safety record.


The Premier, Morris Iemma, would not rule out privatisation of the ferries yesterday but stressed that the inquiry would report on "the present state of Sydney Ferries" and document what should be done to ensure it provided "safe, efficient and customer-focused ferry services."

Bret Walker, SC who conducted the 2004 inquiry into deaths at Campbelltown and Camden hospitals will head the special commission of inquiry into the ferries.

It comes less than three years after the struggling ferry service was corporatised in a desperate attempt to revive declining revenue, improve low patronage and deliver better timetables. Mr Iemma said the inquiry would begin immediately and be completed by the end of August.


It would not duplicate inquiries into last week's tragedy: "This is an over arching inquiry into Sydney Ferries, looking at its efficiency, its operation, its service delivery to ferry users".

Four people were killed last week when a motor cruiser and a Sydney Ferries HarbourCat collided under the Harbour Bridge.

Last year the Treasurer, Michael Costa, dismissed the option of selling inefficient government services such as Sydney Ferries. "Privatisation of public transport is not on the agenda," he said.

The terms of reference for the inquiry include changes to management structures and practices, changes to operations, changes to industrial practices, measures to achieve cultural change, and changes in regulatory and governance arrangements.

Since early 2004, the Office of Transport Safety Investigations - set up after the Waterfall disaster - has opened 12 investigations into ferry collisions or systemic problems. Many of the reports that followed criticised the corporation for failing to implement recommendations in earlier reports.

The corporation also commissioned the auditing firm, KPMG, to review the Balmain shipyard. It found the shipyard had mounting maintenance bills and massive cost blow-outs. KPMG is also preparing a fleet replacement strategy.

A spokesman for the Maritime Union of Australia, Paul Garrett, said the union supported any process that would help his members get on with the job of running a quality transport service.

"The employees of Sydney Ferries have gone out of their way to lift the training standards, to ensure a quality service," he said.

But a marine consultant, Peter Burge, said the inquiry would achieve nothing unless the terms of reference allowed a thorough investigation into the entire culture of the ferries corporation.

He said it should look at "the relationship between Sydney Ferries management and the Government on one hand, and ferries management and the unions on the other," he said.

The Opposition spokeswoman on transport, Gladys Berejiklian, welcomed the inquiry but said it was disappointing that it took a "string of accidents and now multiple fatalities" to force an inquiry.

Meanwhile, Sydney Ferries has suspended its three daily harbour cruises for 12 months so more vessels are available for peak hour commuter services and staff training. The cruises finished last Sunday. Sydney Ferries is asking tourists to take in the sights on its regular services, such as the Mosman, Manly, Taronga Zoo and Woolwich routes.

Cant the government do anything for the public these days?

You are right on with this post Fabian.Its a 'must do' if visiting Sydney.Anyone who has been to Sydney and not been across the harbour, is a loser!.

Exactly, every time i visit Sydney, I always sit on a ferry for a few hours, a great way to relax!

I Recommend it to EVERYONE!

:okay:

You are right on with this post Fabian.Its a 'must do' if visiting Sydney.Anyone who has been to Sydney and not been across the harbour, is a loser!.

I've riden trains heaps of times over the harbour bridge, does that count? :cheers: :lol:

Manly needs a train line, not a bunch of shitty buses and ferries. People need to face it - an 8-car train could carry twice as many people as a single ferry, and do it in the same or less time.

Ferries are useless as mass transit, and are slow and unsafe.

Typical NSW, don't want to invest in something actually useful. :bash:

Manly needs a train line, not a bunch of shitty buses and ferries. People need to face it - an 8-car train could carry twice as many people as a single ferry, and do it in the same or less time.

Ferries are useless as mass transit, and are slow and unsafe.

Typical NSW, don't want to invest in something actually useful. :bash:

I agree that the Northern Beaches needs a rail line, but I disagree about Manly. That suburb is perfectly located for a Ferry Service, and it is clear by the passenger numbers that it works.

As for a commuter service, granted, the 30minute wait for a ferry is quite long (though you can always pay extra to use the Jetcat if that still exists), but it is probably the most beautiful commuter route in Australia.

I had the fortune to live virtually on Manly Beach for 5 years, and commuted every day by Ferry to the city. You can knock it as much as you like, but I have never had, and probably never will have again as enjoyable commute as I did then. Each day after work, it was like going on holiday, especially in summer, sitting outside with the seabreeze, the sights and the atmosphere.

If a train was built and I still lived in Manly, I wouldn't use it even if it was free. I'd take that Ferry ride anyday.

The seats they installed in the Manly ferries as part of the upgrade are damn uncomfortable! The old red vinyl seats were far easier on the prosterior. I'd call that a downgrade rather than an upgrade.

As for a commuter service, granted, the 30minute wait for a ferry is quite long (though you can always pay extra to use the Jetcat if that still exists), but it is probably the most beautiful commuter route in Australia.
Commuters don't want to pay for scenery. They want to pay to go home.

Public transport services should reflect this.

Agreed with Jarf ^^

Commuters don't want to pay for scenery. They want to pay to go home.

Public transport services should reflect this.

Have you ever been a commuter from Manly? I was for 5 years and I was speaking from experience. I also spoke for my other friends from Manly who use the ferry and some still do.

I say again. And this is from a person who loves trains and lives now in a city with a proper metro system, something which no Australian city has yet... The ferry was a perfect way to commute.

As Jarf said, even if you consider its the "perfect way", people don't commute to see the scenery. They just want to go home or to where-ever their going. People would rather a reliable service than a scenic one.

Jarf has been to Manly before, BTW, as a part of his randomly driving around Sydney trip (with the main intention being to go to Miranda ;) ).

Don't worry the ferries are always going to be there.

Remember, any railway would also be serving intermediate areas, and perhaps even areas beyond Manly.

Would it be viable possibly building a rail line as far north as Mona Vale?

I don't know myself having only visited the place twice.

If running through The Spit, they might branch off from a line to Manly at Balgowah to avoid running along the beach, then pass through Warringah Mall and Dee Why. They would probably stop at Dee Why due to diminishing populations north of here and the likely expense of crossing through Narrabeen. But they could eventually take it to Mona Vale, and no farther I would think.

Love the ferries! What an excellent way to commute; like a pleasure cruise. Wish they'd paint them all green and beige though, think they'd look much better in a uniform colour scheme.

Wasn't there plans to replace the old ferries with new ones that can do multiple routes?

All I know is that there will be a $5 million upgrade of ferries to upgrade engines and operating systems.

I do remember a few months ago of a proposal to introduce a ferry that could be used on any route, but nothing new since.

Also the Liberals were hoping to buy new Manly ferries if reelected but won't be happening with Iemma in charge.

As Peter Debnam quoted 'I hope they take our policy onboard'

The Manly route will always require a larger ferry simply because of the sheer numbers it carries.

For other routes, though, I do think a generic ferry would be a good idea.

Not getting any better :(

From The Sydney Morning Herald (smh.com.au)
Fiasco afloat: ferries dead in the water
April 9, 2007

The worst accident in decades, 12 bosses in 15 years, and a decaying fleet. Can Sydney Ferries be rescued? Robert Wainwright reports.

SHE is identified in official reports as SuperCat 4, but the last public ferry commissioned on Sydney Harbour has run for five years without a name on her bow.

Three older sisters - Mary MacKillop, Susie O'Neill and Louise Sauvage - were launched in the afterglow of the Olympics, and named by winners of newspaper competitions.

But the warmth was fleeting when the SuperCats were found to be superduds.

The contract to build eight more of the $4.5 million vessels was cancelled, and No. 4 was quietly lowered into the water without fanfare or christening. This week she was anonymously plying the waters between Rose Bay and Circular Quay.

The saga of SuperCat 4 is symbolic of the malaise afflicting the bureaucracy known as Sydney Ferries. Once the flag bearer of the city's public transport system, it is a tattered, dysfunctional operation held together with cheap engineering alternatives, questionable designs and dodgy work practices - the antithesis of its own charter "to deliver safe and reliable ferry services in an efficient, effective and financially responsible manner".

With three investigations into the March 28 tragedy in which four people died when the ferry Pam Burridge hit a pleasure cruiser - the worst in 80 years of ferry operations - the Herald can reveal that the board and senior management are at odds over the future of the organisation, and specifically over how to spend an estimated $250 million renewing its ageing, disparate fleet.

Although $5 million has been earmarked this year to re-engine 12 of its 31 ferries, all will need replacing over the next decade.

A proposal by the firm KPMG and backed by the latest chief executive, Geoff Smith, to replace the traditional Manly ferries with a fleet of smaller, faster ferries has been rejected unanimously by the five-member board because of fears that the SuperCat disaster - the failed experiment to design an all-purpose ferry - will be repeated.

The board, headed by the former chairman of Leighton Holdings, Geoff Ashton, voted unanimously in February to seek a second opinion, and asked why an accounting firm was making recommendations about ferry design and operation.

The decision halted a State Government plan to announce the program to renew the fleet during the election campaign.

A spokesman for Mr Smith confirmed the board discussions, but described the KPMG plan as a work in progress.

The schism between Mr Smith and the board complicates the special commission of inquiry into the operation announced by the Premier, Morris Iemma.

The "top to bottom" investigation headed by Bret Walker, SC, has five targets in its terms of reference - operations, industrial relations, workforce culture, regulatory and governance, and management structure and practices. But insiders question the value of the inquiry unless there is the political will to consider some form of privatisation, which Mr Iemma has not ruled out.

Sydney Ferries was corporatised almost three years ago in a bid to make it accountable. But problems have continued, compounded by an ageing fleet, falling patronage and an industrial structure that fosters worker dynasties at one end of the spectrum and a revolving door of executives at the other.

Sydney Ferries has been pilloried by a succession of reports over poor performance, shoddy maintenance, inadequate training and accidents. Yet management could not give the Independent Pricing and Regulatory Tribunal even the briefest data about service quality, reliability or safety of its operations because no one had thought it important enough to monitor.

The tribunal approved a fare increase last year but was highly critical of management, noting figures which showed revenue had fallen by 14 per cent while costs had increased by 46 per cent over six years.

By contrast, Sydney Ferries' annual report painted a flattering self-portrait of service levels, including 98 per cent on-time running, but failed to mention that cancellations had more than doubled, delays were up by 50 per cent, and patronage had fallen by almost 1 million passengers since 2001. The latest performance results on its website, for February, show customer complaints at almost four times target levels.

A report by the Office of Transport Safety Investigations late last year described maintenance as sub-optimal, with incomplete documentation and poor monitoring of work and performance. Crew resource management was below best practice, affected by inadequate training, poor communication procedures, ill-defined roles and rostering problems.

And now people have died - five in two accidents this year. Even a plan to include black boxes on ferries was abandoned when costs pushed safety standards to one side.

The myriad entwined problems start at the top. There have been 12 chief executives in 15 years - three in the past 18 months alone - as well as six engineering managers in as many years and a new general manager every six months since 2005.

One trade union official joked: "What do I think of senior managers? I never get too close to them because they don't last long enough. We operate day-to-day; that's the best we can offer in the circumstances. The public has a right to expect better."

Rear-Admiral Geoff Smith is a former commander of the navy's mission to intercept asylum seekers. His critics say he has been set up for failure, if only because he is a military officer with little if any commercial maritime experience. His relationship with the workforce is not helped by the recent appointment to senior management positions of four ex-navy personnel.

Mr Smith would not be interviewed, but has previously dismissed the March 28 accident as a blip in an otherwise improving safety performance. "Unfortunately, we have these couple of incidents these last couple of months," he told the Herald. "That, unfortunately, has blighted what had been a pretty good record up to that in the preceding 12 months."

The comments were greeted with horror inside Sydney Ferries, whose 600 staff are said to be shattered, and were told by senior managers that it would take an accident-free period of five years to overcome concerns of the travelling public.

Two of the key areas of the Walker inquiry will be industrial relations and workplace culture.

Paul Garrett is assistant secretary with the Maritime Union, which represents most of the workforce. His father, John, was head the Firemen and Deckhands Union of NSW before it was amalgamated in 1993 with the Waterside Workers Federation and Seamens Union.

Mr Garrett's family history is indicative of the so-called dynasty culture at Sydney Ferries - hailed by unions as a strength of workforce commitment, but derided as draconian and obstructionist by its opponents.

Mr Garrett insists the workforce is the one constant of the organisation, but concedes there are serious, systemic problems. The fleet not only needs replacing but also simplifying to aid maintenance. He would prefer three or four ferry classes rather than seven. The industrial climate is poor, he says, compounded by an organisation which has not come to terms with corporatisation. There are no centralised records for employees and three sets of working conditions for staff.

Training is another issue, he says. Although things have improved since a run of accidents in 2005, training is hampered by decisions as simple as the purchase of a training simulator, which would remove the need to take ferries out of service to train crews.

Sydney Ferries once owned a simulator and even set up a training facility at TAFE but sold it when no one used the equipment for five years.

The secretary of the Australian Marine and Power Engineers, Andrew Williamson, says the Walker inquiry should include the operations of the NSW Maritime Authority, which regulates the harbour. He said it has a bias towards recreational users of the harbour as opposed to professional master mariners and their crews.

Peter Burge, a maritime consultant who used to work with Sydney Ferries, says a form of privatisation is the only way forward. He proposes the Government retains ownership of the fleet and routes, but contracts management to a private company.

He said the fleet need rationalising, training needs addressing, and there was no urgency over maintenance.

Sydney Ferries "will never make a profit but that's not the aim of public transport," he said. "However, a commercial operator could run it with minimal losses to the taxpayer. It's a matter of politicians facing an unpalatable reality."

Not good news. Patronage is down :9

From The Sydney Morning Herald (smh.com.au)
Passengers desert ferries
Date: July 11 2007


Linton Besser, Transport Reporter

SYDNEY'S ferries are ailing and the Manly service is high on the sick list: the number of people using it has plummeted by more than 110,000 passenger trips in three years as commuters abandon the city's harbour icons.

The man appointed to investigate an overhaul of the Sydney Ferries Corporation, Bret Walker, SC, has revealed the dire state of the Circular Quay to Manly service, including its spiralling cost. While the corporation spent more than $40.5 million on this route alone in the past financial year, up substantially from $34.6 million in 2004-05, patronage on the Manly service has fallen substantially.

An internal draft of the corporation's Fleet Replacement Strategy shows the ferries travelling across the harbour are usually only half-full. There has been a decline in the use of both the Freshwater Class ferry and the JetCat, but it is the fast commuter service that has suffered a more marked downturn of 5.6 per cent.

Overall ferry patronage has declined by almost 1 million passengers since 2001.

The Manly ferry ran at a cost of $4.90 per passenger during 2006-07, but JetCat costs soared to $15 per passenger, making it "one of the highest cost passenger journeys provided by Sydney Ferries", Mr Walker said.

Mr Walker was appointed by the State Government to head a special commission of inquiry into Sydney's ferries after the deaths of five people in two separate ferry accidents in January and March. Separate inquiries were launched into both incidents.

Behind the scenes the service has been plagued by problems. Its ageing fleet is in need of replacement and has not been perfectly maintained, and there have been rostering problems, inadequate training and below best-practice management, a transport safety report found last year. Costs have ballooned 46 per cent in the past six years, but revenue fell 14 per cent.

In April, the availability of ferries and JetCats to service Manly - 74 per cent and 63 per cent respectively - fell to below the minimum required before services are affected. Since February, these figures have been well below the corporation's target range. In May, customer complaints were four times higher than the organisation's own target.

Mr Walker will attend a public forum in Harbord later this month to hear northern beaches locals talk about the importance of the service to them.

The Mayor of Manly, Peter Macdonald, said he suspected the inquiry was part of a campaign by the Government to privatise the loss-making ferry service. "It worries me. If it gets into private hands, it may well be there are steep increases in ticket prices, [and] when you privatise a service, an operator will discard less profitable schedules."

The state MP for Manly, Mike Baird, a Liberal, said he would support partial privatisation if service conditions were improved. "There's no doubt that Sydney Ferries needs to be reformed."

A Sydney Ferries spokesman, Kai Ianssen, said the organisation could not comment broadly on the Manly service while the inquiry was under way. He said the operating costs for the JetCats in 2006-07 were affected by periodic planned maintenance.

I've only just discovered this thread! What a brilliant one it is too! Great photos of the fleet.
My Nana used to live on Collaroy Beach and when we visited we always did the trip to Manly to catch a ferry to Circular Quay! I remember doing it on the hydrofoils too! They were amazing - I think it was a sad day when they were decommissioned.
Wasn't there talk around that time to rescue the hydrofoils and introduce a service from Wollongong to Circular Quay?

My favourite commute ever was on a Sydney ferry. I used to get the Rivercat from Cabarita for years and I never ever got tired of it. There was nothing nicer than walking down to the wharf on a crisp morning, sit at the front of the Rivercat and just enjoy the view / breeze.

Noice!

js

Jarf's comments are typical Melbourne! I don't think anyone outside Sydney would understand the special quality of commuting by ferry. People would use the ferry from Manly even if there was a train from the wharf - it is one of the world's geat journeys.

Notwithstanding, unfortunately Sydney's ferries are no longer a strict necessity for commuter service. Their functions are duplicated by land modes, but take them away and see how Sydneysiders react! There are now multiple compounded inefficiencies in the government operation of Sydney's ferries and return to private operation (which is how they operated successfully for nearly 150 years) is pretty inevitable. It will be better for them, believe me.

One example of incompetence was the attempt to standardise the design, mentioned on this thread. This was made by bureaucrats at desks with no maritime knowledge. The ferry services include calm water routes that require shallow draft minimal wake vessels, and deep sea condition routes (Manly) that require seagoing vessels with deep drafts and ability to handle big beam seas. The catamaran type they introduced as a standard had some bad mishaps on the Manly route in big seas. There are some big seagoing cats that can run on the Manly route though. The result is now a non-standardised fleet with many different vessel types and a maintenance headache.

But don't worry about this if you're just a passenger! My recommended Sydney experience for the visitor - the ferry from Circular Quay to Manly and then walk down the Corso to the ocean beach at Manly. Nothing like it in the world!

BTW there has been a plan to build a railway from North Sydney to Mona Vale for some 70 years - there is even the start of the tunnel at North Sydney. It's simply been a victim of Australia's appalling transport planning and political indecision.

If you ask me, the key to solving the northern beaches public transport woes and the Sydney ferry patronage problems (namely the Manly - Circular Quay route) both lie in setting up a localised light rail network (capable of decent speeds) that covers right up to Mona Vale, and feeds directly down to the ferry terminal at Manly to connecting services.

People should be able to buy one ticket and travel from Mona Vale to Circular Quay and beyond, if necessary... No massive tunnels under the Spit, no "feral westies" mingling with the "wax heads and fin-dicks" of the Northern Beaches. Everyone's happy.

Commuters on the Northern beaches have access to travelpasses which would cover their bus and ferry travel. If light rail was introduced, it would have to be included in the ticket as well.

Yeah that's what I mean... make it all one ticket...

Integrated Ticketing, its not an entirely new concept. Sydney already has the footworks for it set out with TravelPass, however not everyone is onboard. You need the current Light Rail onboard as well as any future light rail. Plus the major private bus operators like hillbus, westbus and veolia. The government has to do this though and NSW seems incapable of fixing just one mode of transport let alone organizing all of them.

I heard that surprise surprise Macquarie Bank are investigating buying out Sydney Ferries? Would this be a good thing, or a bad thing, I can't decide?

Somebody has to provide the capital, its more a question of who manages it. I would like to see an experienced operater of both commuter and tourist services like Fantasea (Whitsundays) running it. There will inevitably be a sorting out of both the fleet and the routes/services.

I have read there are a number of companies looking into purchasing a stake in Sydney Ferries. The article also read that the government would not sell all of it, only part.

What does everyone think of the idea to privitaise the network. I can see the pros of doing it but history shows that privately run ferries haven't worked in Sydney.

An article from last weeks Sydney Morning Herald.

Private ferries, metro rail on the way
Catharine Munro and Linton Besser
November 2, 2007

SYDNEY'S transport seems likely to move increasingly into private hands after a scathing report on ferries recommended their privatisation and the State Government revealed it wanted to build an underground metro rail service run separately from the main network.

The report by Bret Walker, SC, urges the Government to let the private sector clean up the mess after revealing the depths to which the Sydney Ferries management had descended.

The once-grand harbour service had been brought to its knees and a public-private partnership would relieve the Government of the ferry service's complex management, Mr Walker recommended.

The advice fits the cabinet's desire to dilute the power of the transport unions and its resistance to spending on services. The Transport Minister, John Watkins, yesterday ruled out more public money for infrastructure, suggesting the next generation of transport projects would be privately funded.

High spending on electricity and water, as well as schools, health and transport meant the budget had been exhausted.

"We really are at the upper limit of our expenditure capacity on infrastructure in NSW currently," Mr Watkins said. "To go any higher in our budget puts us in a difficult position with regard to our AAA credit rating and the long-term capacity of our budget."

A public-private partnership would be the only way to deliver the rail services needed to meet population growth of 1.4 million in the next 25 years. "We have to do it now because those people are coming," he said.

Mr Watkins said the Government was starting to plan the next generation of public transport, and it would not involve the state-owned and run double-decker rail system. Instead he wanted a system akin to those of Hong Kong and Singapore, where the services are so frequent there is no need for timetables. "We are now reaching that point in Sydney where we have to go to the next step in rail, and the next step in rail is metro. It has to be … It's fast, it's efficient, it moves lots of people and rail is the way to move people. So that's what's coming next."

The proposed metro line would run between Malabar and West Ryde, under the congested Anzac Parade and Victoria Road.

The Co-ordinator General of Infrastructure, David Richmond, revealed the thinking on the future of the transport network. "Maybe it's time to break away from the existing system and to contemplate the introduction of a system that would operate independently from the existing system, independent in every sense of the word," he said. He later told the Herald: "There's no question I'm supportive of it."

Applauding from the sidelines was the former minister Carl Scully, who held both the roads and transport portfolios until he resigned last year. He said he found the unions "very, very difficult" to deal with.

"The management and culture approach of the unions really just is in a time warp … The only way to have a root and branch alteration is to set up the metro system," Mr Scully said.

But Mr Watkins - speaking with Mr Scully and Mr Richmond at the Sydney Morning Herald/Lloyd's List Transport and Infrastructure Forum - said the metro line would not precede the long-promised state-funded extension of lines to the north-west and south-west fringes, which would require the construction of a new harbour crossing. But he did not say when funding would be made available for it.

Mr Watkins faced further political heat over revelations by Mr Walker that he sacked Sue Sinclair, the head of Sydney Ferries until February 2006, without the board's approval, although he had no power to do so.

Ms Sinclair told the inquiry there was no interaction between the board and the minister, and that Mr Watkins acted "in clear contravention" of the Transport Administration Act. "What happened was exactly what the act was designed to prevent," she said.

Mr Watkins also intervened in an open tender process for vessel maintenance which could have saved the taxpayer as much as $1.2 million, illustrating "the difficulties faced by the board and chief executive in attempting to manage Sydney Ferries Corporation as a stand-alone commercial business."

Mr Walker recommended that the Government continue to determine routes across the harbour, and fares would still be set by the pricing regulator. Using the successful private bus contracts as his analogy, he maintained the ferry service needed an "arms-length" relationship with government as the regulator.

What does everyone think of the idea to privitaise the network. I can see the pros of doing it but history shows that privately run ferries haven't worked in Sydney.
You can't be serious Fabian, how old are you?! It has been the other way around. Private operation of ferries (for some 150 years) was highly successful; government operation since then disastrous. The end of the private era only came about because of factors beyond the operators' control - increasing use of motor cars and setting up of competing govt bus services that drew patronage away. The ferries are a bit different from other Sydney PT - only about 50% of patronage is commuter. Return to privatisation is the only way to go.

I see no problem with a private company taking over from the government with the ferries. They obviously need sorting out. They would need to ensure that they were still subsidised, or that fares weren't left to spiral out of control like the Airport line has. Same goes for any Metro development. It is vital that people pay no more, or not much more than an equivilent bus fare imo...

You can't be serious Fabian, how old are you?! It has been the other way around. Private operation of ferries (for some 150 years) was highly successful; government operation since then disastrous. The end of the private era only came about because of factors beyond the operators' control - increasing use of motor cars and setting up of competing govt bus services that drew patronage away. The ferries are a bit different from other Sydney PT - only about 50% of patronage is commuter. Return to privatisation is the only way to go.

But also there was poor management of ferry services, particularly the Manly run during the 1960's and 70's. Brambles who ran the services between 1972 and 1974 nearly destroyed the service completely. There were breakdowns of the ageing ferries and some were taken out of service i.e Bellaburra and the South Steyne caught fire. Fares skyrocketed, wanted periodicals cut, and a reduction in services, not to mention overcrowding.

I have a book that documents the history of Sydney ferries which would hold further information that I could use to explain why it could not work in a historical sense. I need to find it as it is currently in storage. The information I used for the Manly service came out of a separate book about the Manly run. As you pointed out competition from other forms of transport but also the opening of the harbour bridge, made operating the ferries in Sydney less viable.

In a privatised system, the Manly run will be the most vulnerable and those up on the northside won't like any reduction in their services. It's a big part of living in Manly and the Manly Daily are keen supporters for the retention of services.

^^
Fabian the private Manly ferries were very well run but what had been happening since the 1950s was that the service was being assailed by the increased use of motor vehicles and competition from the govt's own bus services. The service was losing its economic viability and the company was trying to get the govt to take it over since the 1950s. The govt turned its back and didn't want to know about it and so a private company was left subsidising a public service. At the same time the company was left without the financial ability to buy new displacement hulled vessels but they did make the enterprising move of introducing hydrofoils to try to recapture patronage.

All this time the people of Manly who "wanted" the service so much increasingly turned their backs on it by not using it.

In the end the company had to survive by investing in new areas of (non-ferry) business and became profitable again. This attracted the takeover by Brambles who ruthlessly did what the company had been trying to do since 1950 - made the govt pay attention and forced its hand. This whole 25 year episode (not just 60s and 70s) was not a failure of private enterprise but a failure of govt to manage Sydney's public transport effectively.

If anything the Manly ferry demonstrated the inability of govt to manage a ferry service. Privatisation won't threaten the Manly service, the biggest threat is from Manly people thenselves who prefer to use their cars because their destinations are far and wide. The Sydney CBD now has only about 13% of the Sydney basin worksforce. There is a diminishing role for ferries for commuting but still a big role of recreation. A private operator will be more skilled at handling that balance.

Melbourne might have her trams but Sydney's sure got her ferries.

Below is an old UTA brochure I found in my collection on Sydney Ferries, it's got a nice photo of a hydrofoil travelling along at a nice speed. Pity they had mechanical problems with the hydrofoils and ended up eventually getting rid of them.

A paragraph from the history link below:-
In 1965 the company introduced hydrofoils to Sydney Harbour to provide a high-speed service to Manly in an attempt to boost revenue. While they proved popular, their lack of mechanical reliability lead to their demise and they were replaced by the JetCats in the early 1990s.

A brief history of Sydney’s Ferries (http://www.liveituseit.nsw.gov.au/html/teach/primary/03_ferries.html)

Apologies for the crappy scanner of mine :)

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/173/hydrofoilutabrochurecm0.jpg

An old B&W photo showing a pair of Sydney’s Hydrofoils (http://photosforthefuture.historychannel.com.au/?cmd=photo_view&photo_id=5527)

Sunbus the lack of mechanical "reliability" of hydrofoils only emerged under govt ownership, just like some Sydney buses were unreliable under govt ownership but were mysteriously quite satisfactory for private operators. The jetcats funnily enough also developed "reliability" problems. The bad workman blames his tools. The public service was quite good at running a business up to about 50 years ago but no longer I'm afraid.

I think any company that takes over the ferries should bring back those hydrofoils. They were fecking COOL!

just like some Sydney buses were unreliable under govt ownership but were mysteriously quite satisfactory for private operators.

What buses would these be? Leyland Atlanteans? Flogged off early because no satisfactory way of using them was ever agreed upon with the Union.

Other vehicles sold early (some Leyland Leopards, Mk I Mercedes O305s) were merely from an ill-conceived fleet downsizing...

What buses would these be? Leyland Atlanteans? Flogged off early because no satisfactory way of using them was ever agreed upon with the Union.

Other vehicles sold early (some Leyland Leopards, Mk I Mercedes O305s) were merely from an ill-conceived fleet downsizing...
No it was mechanical issues not operational. Leylands generally were blamed by the govt's spin doctors for unreliability issues when in fact it was the PTC's maintenance practices that were at issue. The change to Mercs was the "solution" - too long ago to remember clearly but I think the real solution in fact was that Merc (or supplier) took over maintenance from the PTC. Meanwhile a number of private operators spoke out in support of their Leyland buses which they were quite happy with.

Train maintenance is now also contracted out to a private company. It all adds up towards the theme in this thread that govt ownership isn't necessarily the best thing for public transport. It used to be, 50 and more years ago, but no longer. And it has never worked for ferries.

^^ The ferries in Brisbane are run by a private company (MetroLink QLD) and are very well run.

The government is proposing the to adopt the Brisbane model, which from experience I found to be a very good and affordable service. It's highly unlikely that the service will be as affordable as in the past.

What about this for an idea. Sydney Ferries could recieve extra income by using the ferries as a floating bilboard

http://www.csus.edu/indiv/p/phelpsr/Personal/ByYear/2005/Greece/GreeceFerryHighSpeed05856.jpg

What about this for an idea. Sydney Ferries could recieve extra income by using the ferries as a floating bilboard

Is that Andros? Looks familiar? I could imagine all the indignation from the Sydney Morning Herald etc. Visual pollution on Sydney Harbour!!

Is that Andros? Looks familiar? I could imagine all the indignation from the Sydney Morning Herald etc. Visual pollution on Sydney Harbour!!

No. Its the port of Piraeus in Greece.

What about this for an idea. Sydney Ferries could recieve extra income by using the ferries as a floating bilboard

http://www.csus.edu/indiv/p/phelpsr/Personal/ByYear/2005/Greece/GreeceFerryHighSpeed05856.jpg

I havent seen much advertising inside the ferries. The Jetcats have them in their interior. That would work too.

There will be a stop work meeting at 9am for those working on the Manly run and will affect Manly-Circular Quay services. This is due to proposals to privitise the service.

Train maintenance is now also contracted out to a private company. It all adds up towards the theme in this thread that govt ownership isn't necessarily the best thing for public transport. It used to be, 50 and more years ago, but no longer. And it has never worked for ferries.

Hornsby, Flemington and Mortdale Maintenance Centres are all operated by RailCorp. However Maintrain at Auburn which does major overhauls etc is operated by a private operator. The only trains that aren't maintained by RailCorp are the M sets and OSCars. Anybody else noticed how much cleaner the Millennium trains always are compared to the rest of the system?

Jetcat services will be ditched following the mini budget. Manly locals wont be impressed. Fares will rise by 50 cents from January 1.

^^ So will there only be the half hourly standard ferries?

Yes. Locals arent impressed. They feel like the suburb has shifted 10km further north.

Maybe they should just charge a $46 ticket price per trip or whatever the current cost is for the current Jetcat services?

that's the price to pay for being blue ribbon!

The Palm Beach Ferry service is looking at taking over jetcat services and would be prepared to start on January 1 according to The Manly Daily.

Meanwhile Manly residents with the support of Manly MP Mike Baird have formed a group in response to recent concerns with the ferries known as Fix Our Ferries and will lobby to save the Jetcat service.

NSW politics is starting to feel like a very bad dream… As such, I’m looking forward to 2011 where the ALP will no longer fulfil the requirements for party status in parliament.

Meanwhile Manly residents with the support of Manly MP Mike Baird have formed a group in response to recent concerns with the ferries known as Fix Our Ferries and will lobby to save the Jetcat service.

Presumably the same residents that don't use those services now?

NSW politics is starting to feel like a very bad dream… As such, I’m looking forward to 2011 where the ALP will no longer fulfil the requirements for party status in parliament.

Not coming to Macquarie Street on Wednesday to demand the government cause an election?

^^ So will there only be the half hourly standard ferries?

^^

To cater for customer demand, from Saturday, 20 December 2008 until 26 January inclusive, additional Manly Ferry services will operate at approximately 20 minute intervals.

They do that every summer to cater for increased numbers of visitors going to Manly.

Do ferries in Sydney, for the large subsidies given to them, actually perform much of a genuine public transport function? What's the modal share for ferries out of PT trips - 1%?

As to those wanting the Jetcats saved - cry me a river. Pay the full cost or shut up.

^ well how about you pay the full cost of a train ticket or a bus ticket? Oh that's right you probably live in the western suburbs...

Oh that's right you probably live in the western suburbs...
Lol - like I'd live in any capital city.

You don't need two competing ferry routes between the two points - and especially not one that is a premium service competing with the main full-time service, carrying few people and demanding a higher per-pax subsidy.

If 'Palm Beach Ferries' can make the Manly-Circ Quay Jetcat run pay dividends for them, good on them.

Do ferries in Sydney, for the large subsidies given to them, actually perform much of a genuine public transport function? What's the modal share for ferries out of PT trips - 1%?

As to those wanting the Jetcats saved - cry me a river. Pay the full cost or shut up.

There is about 14 million trips made on Sydney Ferries. Of those those 25% are tourist trips.

This is from the 2006-7 annual report.

Total revenue for the year was $119.9 million. Farebox revenue contributed $48 million and government funding, $71.2 million. Other income of $0.70 million was achieved from commission on sale of tickets and other sundry revenue. Farebox revenue was $2.7 million more than in 2005–06. During the year, the NSW Government contributed an additional $27 million in funding to enable Sydney Ferries to implement measures aimed at enhancing safety, vessel availability and service reliability and reduce its short term debt accumulated over two financial years.

I have always supported a public ferry service to Manly, and the Freshwater Class ferries and it's predcessors have done a good job in transporting the masses out of the Manly Peninsula.

While the Jetcats are great to ride on, they are not economical to run given the short distance they travel and the upkeep. The hydrofoils also had similar problems to the jetcats, one of them included the time it takes for them to turn around upon reaching Manly or Circular Quay.

In the old days, the old ferries could carry up to 1700 people and even provided entertainment on board and they were packed.

It wont be the end of the world for Manly with the jetcats being axed. They still have a popular ferry service. Though slower it moves people in large numbers. Compared to the time it would take by road to travel from Manly to the Sydney CBD, there is no difference in travel times as motorists have to battle the gridlock on Military Rd and the Spit Bridge. Manly wont be any further either.

If I was a resident of Manly, I'd use the normal service because its cheaper and really the service is no different apart from the trip taking longer. At least it gives me time to read a book or the paper.

And why cannot they consider adding an extra service or two during peak hour. The jetcat berth can always be used by a normal ferry.

Sorry I want the jetcat back, they are one of the hottest crafts on the harbour and now all we will be left with is those ugly old ferries ... I fucking love listening to them shoot aover the harbour watching them from georges heights.

Get fucked rees I hope you get hit by a truck fuckwitt. My blood is boiling more than ever with the decisions they are making. This government is running this city well and truely into the shit.

I will admit that they are great to photograph in action. I might have some time later this week to take some photos of our ferries around Bennelong Point and Circular Quay.

Avatar, Mike Baird has indicated that he is trying to make arrangements to ensure that the Palm Beach Ferry Service can continue the service from January 1 as a temporary arrangement and then put the service out to tender.

If a private company feels that they can run the service and make a profit on it. Good on them. I wont object to it.

Do ferries in Sydney, for the large subsidies given to them, actually perform much of a genuine public transport function? What's the modal share for ferries out of PT trips - 1%?

As to those wanting the Jetcats saved - cry me a river. Pay the full cost or shut up.
Leaving aside for a moment the issue that your general philosophies could justify getting rid of all public transport whatsoever Mr Warren Centre :lol:, the answer to your question is that ferries (excepting Manly) no longer serve a fundamentally essential role in Sydney PT. They really just fill the gaps where the land transport systems fall a little short.

The conventional Manly ferry (leaving aside the jetcats) has always had patronage justification, and, to a far smaller extent, any service to peninsular areas (Balmain, Mosman), where the land journey involves some backtracking, do have some validity. But really, rather than being publicly subsidised, the smaller ferry runs should be left to private enterprise to make a fist of. If they don't succeed then that answers the question. The Manly ferry should have a private operator but I think it is in the overall public interest to have the - in this case more costly - fleet acquisitions underwritten (just as the govt provides roads for cars and buses, to put some limits on hypocrisy). Jetcats/hydrofoils are really a premium service and should be charged for at cost as they originally were.

Ironic that the former manly ferry company started and ran the Palm Beach ferry company - now the shoe may be on the other foot!

If the Palm Beach Ferry Company ends up with the high speed run they are likely to use these ferries, even though there are concerns about their ability to cater for commuters

Fantasea Crystal - capacity 222 (30 fewer than the jetcat)

http://www.palmbeachferry.com.au/Portals/0/Fleet%20Images/Crystal_365.jpg

Fantasea Spirit - same capacity

http://www.palmbeachferry.com.au/Portals/0/Fleet%20Images/FantaseaSpirit_365.jpg

They are not old either coming into service in 2002-03.

Leaving aside for a moment the issue that your general philosophies could justify getting rid of all public transport whatsoever Mr Warren Centre :lol:
I'm not that harsh Tony :lol:

the answer to your question is that ferries (excepting Manly) no longer serve a fundamentally essential role in Sydney PT. They really just fill the gaps where the land transport systems fall a little short.

The conventional Manly ferry (leaving aside the jetcats) has always had patronage justification, and, to a far smaller extent, any service to peninsular areas (Balmain, Mosman), where the land journey involves some backtracking, do have some validity.
Believe it or not, I do actually agree with you that the ferry does the Circular Quay to Manly run better than a bus making it's way down Military Rd and The Spit could ;)

In terms of the other runs - yes, I agree that the private sector could take them over, rather than them being subsidised as regular public transport.

The NSW Government doesn't really have welfare justification for providing most of these services - like look at the Watsons Bay run, it has much more frequent STA buses serving the same areas.

^^
The other factor I forgot to mention with the inner harbour services is that they serve very wealthy areas. Areas with users who can well afford the luxury of a nice quick boat into town. Double Bay, Rose Bay, Cremorne, Hunters Hill, they're all convenient by boat but don't really warrant a state subsidy, possibly not even integrated fares. The private sector will do what it can best here as it always did in the past (as long as some idiots in govt don't decide to charge them gold bullion for wharf access).

Buses have been a threat to Manly services for years as well. Express buses to the city operate from suburbs within the catchment area such as Brookvale, Balgowlah, Fairlight, Freshwater and Curl Curl.

Buses have been a threat to Manly services for years as well. Express buses to the city operate from suburbs within the catchment area such as Brookvale, Balgowlah, Fairlight, Freshwater and Curl Curl.
That's been going on since 1940 and that catchment shrunk from those areas long ago. The catchment now is basically Manly itself.

And the construction of the current Spit bridge made it quicker for people to drive into town and faster buses. From those areas it is quicker to take a bus.

Fantasea Crystal - capacity 222 (30 fewer than the jetcat)

http://www.palmbeachferry.com.au/Portals/0/Fleet%20Images/Crystal_365.jpg

Fantasea Spirit - same capacity

http://www.palmbeachferry.com.au/Portals/0/Fleet%20Images/FantaseaSpirit_365.jpg

They are not old either coming into service in 2002-03.

:ohno: not these :( :( :( :( :(

The beautiful jetcats will probably disappear from sydney and Australia never to be seen again. I guess they will find a new home in Hong Kong or the Med. Fuck I hate our state and our country.

They can't take our flagships away :(

.....

^ Brisbane's City Cats look better than Sydney's Jet Cats.

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9241/350pxnewcitycatif8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7527/200712132009360030aqr1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Bullshit, what a crap underpowered little piece of shit. It would fuck up going past the heads exactly like the supercats did. It's not even remotely on par with the jetcats.

Sorry this is far better...
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/157/437988120_4d63fa9feb.jpg?v=0

They stuffed the jetcats up when they painted them in green and white. The blue, white and red from recent years was alot better. It feels like the jetcats have aged.

Bullshit, what a crap underpowered little piece of shit. It would fuck up going past the heads exactly like the supercats did. It's not even remotely on par with the jetcats.
Actually he said that they looked better, not that they would perform better. Frankly I think he's right.

Those other things look like retarded turtles ready for a swim. Aesthetics can also follow function and franky the jetcat looks more powerful and more aggressive ... because it is.


I Agree with fabian through in that the jetcats look crap in their current livery. The entire ferry fleet should never have used green or yellows, they looked far better in the old white blue and red colours.

^ ah well, at least Brisbane has 10-15 min frequency for City Cats (on a route that takes two hours, there and back) and a number of cross river routes with 5 minute frequency.

Something the "harbour" city could only dream of.

^ Oh and did I mention a ticketing system integrated with all forms of public transport in South East Queensland? Ticket prices 1/3 to 1/2 the price of Sydney tickets? Also a system that has been contracted out to a private company??

Guess it signifies just how poorly managed NSW is across the spectrum.

LOL we know its gone to the shitter zach.

Sigh :(

^ Oh and did I mention a ticketing system integrated with all forms of public transport in South East Queensland? Ticket prices 1/3 to 1/2 the price of Sydney tickets? Also a system that has been contracted out to a private company??

Guess it signifies just how poorly managed NSW is across the spectrum.

I have heard that the uptake of the go card has been higher than anticipated. I will be using one when I visit Brisbane from the end of the week.

Since the T-Card was ditched, nothing new has been proposed.

Lol. Good work Zach. I really do like the Jetcats, but the CityCats are brilliant too.

Both are increadible ways to get to the CBD and without a doubt, the best way to commute.

Also, lets not forget that the CityCats will soon have free internet for uni students.

Why should they provide it free for uni students? It should be free for everyone. Why should tax payers fund this? That's damn rude.

Why should they provide it free for uni students? It should be free for everyone. Why should tax payers fund this? That's damn rude.

Its being funded by the University of Queensland, and made available for UQ, QUT and Griffith Students.

and everyone has access to BCC and Translink websites, and can get open internet access if they have an account with UQ

The citycats are excellent and comfy.

The seating on the jetcats arent as good as the hydrofoils. They had airline style seats in the old days.

Its being funded by the University of Queensland, and made available for UQ, QUT and Griffith Students.

And ACU misses out :(:(:(

A couple from the vault

2004

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/2985/picture005bf8.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6834/picture081ub6.jpg

From the back of a jetcat enroute to Manly in March 2004

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7726/sydneypictures120220040ul5.jpg

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2509/picture037fz0.jpg

2006

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2379/p2166693kd4.jpg

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2557/p2166694nx8.jpg

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/1697/p2166695ky1.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1971/p2166704ad2.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9707/p2166692lb8.jpg

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/883/p2166691vo3.jpg

...

And ACU misses out :(:(:(

A) ACU is how far from Brisbane? (unless they have one of them offices to just claim a "campus" in Brisbane, ie a computer lab)
B) I think the original article actually mentioned access for UQ and other universities, people would just mainly assume QUT and GU being the other majors in Brisbane.

Sydney Ferries would want to get their act together however. Not sure what the publicity would be like if Brisbane's citycats overtook them in patronage.

^^ Oh, can you just imagine that! That would be HUGE. Yeah, the original article in last monday's Mx said that the internet would be free for students of most universities, including QUT, Griffith and UQ. I wouldn't be surprised if ACU is allowed onto it.

A) ACU is how far from Brisbane? (unless they have one of them offices to just claim a "campus" in Brisbane, ie a computer lab)
B) I think the original article actually mentioned access for UQ and other universities, people would just mainly assume QUT and GU being the other majors in Brisbane.

Sydney Ferries would want to get their act together however. Not sure what the publicity would be like if Brisbane's citycats overtook them in patronage.

It's at Banyo (13km NE) of the city. It has 3000 students, and all the facilities of a normal university.

I did a thread two years ago on the university - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=447351

B) I think the original article actually mentioned access for UQ and other universities, people would just mainly assume QUT and GU being the other majors in Brisbane.

UQ have stated the'll give access to students of the other large 2 universities. It's probably important to note that while 'free', it's still counted in the quota provided to students which is hardly much in the first place.

Sydney Ferries would want to get their act together however. Not sure what the publicity would be like if Brisbane's citycats overtook them in patronage.

I've also been wondering if that could happen, but there is still a pretty big gap.

It's at Banyo (13km NE) of the city. It has 3000 students, and all the facilities of a normal university.

I did a thread two years ago on the university - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=447351

My apologies I thought you said ANU as in Australian National Uni not the Australian Catholic Uni.

UQ have stated the'll give access to students of the other large 2 universities. It's probably important to note that while 'free', it's still counted in the quota provided to students which is hardly much in the first place.

Yes I imagine that would be the case as well. However they are getting nicer with the download limit. UQ is going to up theirs from 200mb to 400mb from Semester 1 2009, it was only 150mb not that long as well. Better then a kick to the face. When you consider that there are roughly 38,000 students at UQ thats 15200 GB a month of include quota. But we are getting a touch of topic here:).

I've also been wondering if that could happen, but there is still a pretty big gap.

But whereas Sydney's patronage growth is completely stagnant and in some recent years has actually declined, Brisbane's is skyrocketing. I can't foresee them overtaking Sydney for some years but I suspect it will happen unless they start getting serious down there (e.g. appointing an SC to run a commission and then listening to him, instead of doing same and then fobbing him off for criticising inefficiencies in the system).

The last Jetcat service will leave Manly at 10am this morning.

From January 27, extra buses will serve the Manly region and there will be an extra morning service (5:30am) and another two evening services for the regular service.

Another two firms have submitted tenders (Including Veolia Transport) to operate the high speed service. There was supposed to an announcement for the successful tender but this has yet to happen.

The following article describes the ferry scenario quite well:

Brisbane Times: Manly JetCat sails into history
by Linton Besser and Jano Gibson | December 31, 2008

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/manly-jetcat-sails-into-history/2008/12/30/1230399243125.html

IF YOU want to catch a JetCat you'd better hurry. The last one leaves Manly at 10am.

The notoriously unreliable fast ferries are being mothballed this morning but Government plans to replace them with a privately run service have been delayed, leaving thousands of northern beaches commuters with half the number of peak services to the city.

The State Government's $1.6 million Special Commission of Inquiry into Sydney Ferries last year recommended the expensive JetCats be junked, along with the Freshwater Class vessels, but insisted that both be replaced with new 800-seat boats.

Designs for these new vessels sit gathering dust, however, and instead, the final JetCat will depart with no contingency plans in place to transport the 13,750 commuters who rely on the service each week.

A Fairlight lawyer, Iain Laughland, who catches the 7.25am JetCat every morning to get to work, is planning to catch a bus from now on.

"It is extremely disappointing," he said. "I don't know how that's going to work.

"Trying to fit all these extra commuters either on ferries or on the bus is going to be pretty difficult."

The three JetCats, Blue Fin, Sir David Martin and Sea Eagle, introduced in 1990 and 1991 to replace ageing hydrofoils, proved a disastrous purchase. The JetCats take half as long to cross the harbour as the Freshwater class, but they cost three times as much to operate and are "characterised by poor reliability and highly fluctuating availability", the inquiry found.

The Treasury expects to save $21 million over the next four years by axing the service, and the vessels are now up for sale.

But a hastily constructed contingency plan to replace the service has hit a stumbling block. Twelve days after a top-level meeting between Palm Beach Ferries and Ministry of Transport officials on November 27, the Transport Minister, David Campbell, called for expressions of interest in a 12-month contract to provide high-speed services to Manly.

Palm Beach Ferries had requested the meeting and the subsequent call for expressions of interest gave just 10 days for companies to submit their bids.

"The Government is interested to see if there are any private operators who can provide the service, and if so, will be looking to award a contract on 24 December 2008," Mr Campbell said on December 9.

Instead of the one bidder the Government may have been expecting, it got more than it bargained for when another three bidders applied, possibly including transport giants TransdevTSL and Veolia.

"We are currently assessing responses but nothing has been finalised at this stage," Mr Campbell said.

But now the Government will fail to meet its own deadline of January 12 for the replacement service. Mr Campbell could not provide a new date when asked by the Herald, saying only: "We expect to have a replacement service up and running early in the new year."

No extra bus services have been allocated to Manly routes either, his office confirmed, forcing commuters to either squeeze aboard the slower Freshwater ferries, or switch to private vehicles.

A Sydney Ferries spokesman, Scott Maclean, said one extra 5.30am service and two extra late-night Freshwater services will be in place from January 27 to absorb extra demand.

But the result for passengers is in stark contrast to the integrated planning urged in the inquiry by Bret Walker, SC.

"Ferries are very important for Manly and associated areas: both for residents and business, with its dependence on visitors. Fleet replacement should recognise and plan to better reflect that importance."

------

They could add "South Steyne" to the service!

What about the Baragoola which is rotting away near Balls Head??? It's been there for years lying idle.

The old ferries did a great job moving the hoards - 1700 of them at once. About 1000 can fit into a typical freshwater class service.

Also I managed to tape a nine news report for the records of the end of the jetcat. While I questioned the financial viability of the jetcats, I felt a sense of sadness today. Another piece of ferry history gone.

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2009/01/03/belmore_basin_wideweb__470x313,0.jpg

January 4, 2009
A TRIPLE-deck catamaran used for whale-watching and weddings is expected to replace the axed Circular Quay to Manly JetCat service.

The 33-metre Ocean Dreaming, operated by Bass and Flinders Cruises, and its as-yet-unnamed $4 million sister vessel - due for delivery in March - will fill the breach for 14,000 commuters.

The notoriously unreliable JetCat service was scrapped on Wednesday after its demise was announced in the November mini-budget.

Bass and Flinders has been the dark horse in the private sector race to provide a replacement service. Chief executive Richard Ford said running a morning and evening peak service would fit in perfectly with Ocean Dreaming's whale-watching commitments.

"We have tendered but I'm not aware any announcement has been made yet," Mr Ford said.

"It would suit our operation because JetCats operated in the peak and then we can go whale watching. It would fit our operational profile but first we have to make sure we have systems [in place] and our crew are trained.

"We will have to put on more crew because our days and shifts will be longer."

Mr Ford said the March arrival of the new 30-metre boat would be perfect timing because it would allow Bass and Flinders to dedicate two vessels to the Manly service, and lease other vessels if required.

It would be better to start the new service when everything, including crew training, was in place, he said, because no one wanted a false start. Mr Ford said Ocean Dreaming could carry about 400 people and its top harbour speed was 22 knots.

The Government cited the JetCat's poor service record (the three boats broke down 29 times more often than other Sydney Ferries vessels) and high cost (each return return trip cost the Government $88 a passenger compared with the $16.40 ticket price) as the reasons for its demise.

Yesterday the Transport Minister, David Campbell, insisted a decision was yet to be made but said there had been "strong" interest from private operators.

"We are currently assessing responses," he said. "This is an open and transparent process which has been expedited. We expect to have a replacement service up and running early in the new year."

Fares for the new service will be set by the successful tenderer.

The JetCat was still described on the Sydney Ferries website yesterday as "a premium service".

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/upgrade-on-the-way/2009/01/03/1230681809457.html

But whereas Sydney's patronage growth is completely stagnant and in some recent years has actually declined, Brisbane's is skyrocketing. I can't foresee them overtaking Sydney for some years but I suspect it will happen unless they start getting serious down there (e.g. appointing an SC to run a commission and then listening to him, instead of doing same and then fobbing him off for criticising inefficiencies in the system).

what is the difference between the two?

I dont think we will ever see Brisbane ferry patronage overtake Sydney, its doesnt have the potential patronage that Sydney has. Brisbane is limited to a dozen or more stops up and down the river, where as Sydney has multiple time more then that.

^ Are you serious? I wouldn't be surprised to see Brisbane ferry patronage higher in the next few years.

Brisbane has 15 major stations + 4 or 5 cross river services.

You have two major universities along the route + 10 to 15 minute off peak services for the entire city cat route.

That beats Sydney services any day.

Sydney is typically 30 min or 1 hour frequency.

^ Oh I also forgot the massive different between ticket prices + integrated ticketing when comparing Brisbane + Sydney Ferries.

The Sydney Ferry System is seriously the biggest joke. It rivals the monorail in effectiveness.

^^ Brisbane also has potential expansion throughout Moreton Bay. Currently it also has services to South Stradbroke and Southern Moreton Bay Islands but these are very badly integrated at the moment.

Mark.

The sleek ferry they show is older than the Jetcats! the info I have says it was built in 1991 and commissioned in 2004, Not sure what the truth is really.

It's also 10 Knots slower at only 22 knots! I dunno what speed they reach in the harbour but seriously they look good but I'd hope they get some newer incat boats.

The jetcats should be kept, modernised and retofitted with different engines. Either that or newer incat boats purchased. The engines seem to be the biggest problem. The existing boats can be made to work. The weren't even loosing that much money. The government has much bigger blackholes to worry about like the tunnel fiascos.

^ Are you serious? I wouldn't be surprised to see Brisbane ferry patronage higher in the next few years.

Brisbane has 15 major stations + 4 or 5 cross river services.

You have two major universities along the route + 10 to 15 minute off peak services for the entire city cat route.

That beats Sydney services any day.

Sydney is typically 30 min or 1 hour frequency.

well the patronage figures of Brisbane will have to double to be higher then Sydneys, it might be possible but i dont think its realistic in the next few years at least.

I wasnt arguing against the Brisbane ferry network, which is pretty dam good, my point was Sydney has more growth potential as opposed to Brisbane.

I have actually been on the Ocean Dreaming for Whale Watching. It's fairly comfortable inside (and warm in winter). As it is an ocean going vessel it could handle the harbour swells alot better than the jetcats, meaning that services wont have be cancelled as often during high swells.

Fabian the jetcats are also ocean going vessels. Similar Incat craft routinely use the ocean, the JetCats are also bigger and probably better at handling swells than even ocean dreaming. The JetCats were also designed for distance travelling, they would have suited trips to the Central Coast much better than the short trip to manly. Ocean dreaming is probably propeller driven, and is substantially slower. The jetcats are also rated at 32 knots, while Ocean Dreaming can manage no better than 22 knots. That is not greatly fast! Ocean Dreaming might look ok but was built in 1991, we need newer vessels than this!

What pisses me off is that we have the worlds best and fastest cat and tricat boat builders in Australia. At least three companies can offer newer more reliable and economical jetcat craft that would suit the run.

Our Jetcats were 20 years old, any wonder they had problems in the end. they were also plauged by a lack of maintenance by the state labour government who have steadily over time reduced the money spent maintaining them. This state governement is a complete joke.

The jetcats always had maintainence problems from day one often with engine and fuel problems.

Avatar, You may be right about their ocean going capacities. According to a book I have on the Manly ferries, they can operate in swells of up 11.4 metres, but Sydney Ferries had a tendency to bar them from travelling in swells of just 2.5 metres which was probably being used as an excuse to reduce services.

LOL 11.4 m is a bit more than a swell!

BTW the problem is more that the swells are beam-on.

Love the Brisbane vs Sydney argument! Tourists make up a large proportion of patronage on Sydney ferries. Why I wonder? It's something called Sydney Harbour which is a tad more touristically interesting than the brown stormwater drain that runs through Brisbane, LOL.

LOL 11.4 m is a bit more than a swell!

BTW the problem is more that the swells are beam-on.

Love the Brisbane vs Sydney argument! Tourists make up a large proportion of patronage on Sydney ferries. Why I wonder? It's something called Sydney Harbour which is a tad more touristically interesting than the brown stormwater drain that runs through Brisbane, LOL.


^ hence why Brisbane ferries come every 10 minutes along a 1.50 hour start to finish trip.

I would prefer efficiency over a tourist boat.LOL.

Oh, you have to love the new Manly Ferry Frequency during the afternoon peak

6.15pm
&
7pm

woot woot

^^ I rode a Citycat from South Brisbane to Brett's Wharf last month. What a sloow trip! Not helped by the curvyness of the Brisbane River.

Can't see how any tourist would be desperate for a ride on that :lol:

^ catch an express in peak hour

No express services exist on the citycat.

^^ I rode a Citycat from South Brisbane to Brett's Wharf last month. What a sloow trip! Not helped by the curvyness of the Brisbane River.

Can't see how any tourist would be desperate for a ride on that :lol:

Operating speeds for the Citycats were slower in the weeks following the November storms when large amounts of debris were swept into the Brisbane River making it a hazard for boats. They had to slow down to avoid colliding.

Overall, I think its a good ride and tourists prefer them to travel a little slow so they can soak up the views . :)

last time i rode a citycat it was quite dam fast, so i dont know what was going on when you guys went on your ride

Yeah I think fabs might have your problem on the head L2, certainly I would make the citycats faster the the river cats crawling up the Parramatta river.

^ catch an express in peak hour

Were removed from the last timetable I believe, or maybe the one before, theres been a couple of revisions as more cats come online. They were replaced with short workings from Hawthorn and New Farm Park to the city, where I believe alot of the peak hour commuters are catching the cats from.

Delays on the city cat are often due to many and/or slow people alighting or boarding. Otherwise, they reach a reasonable speed on the straight stretches of the river and sometimes dont even stop where nobody is alighting or boarding.

The Sydney ferries tend to go directly to the destination wth few stops, except for the Paramatta river ones.

Mark.

How do they know that nobody is alighting? I've never caught one.

How do they know that nobody is alighting? I've never caught one.

Realistically only happens late at night. Just slow to a crawl near the terminal, see that no one is waiting, no one inside is making a move to get off, so then just power away to the next stop. Every time I have caught it during the day they stop everywhere because there is just about always someone to get on or off.

Delays on the city cat are often due to many and/or slow people alighting or boarding. Otherwise, they reach a reasonable speed on the straight stretches of the river and sometimes dont even stop where nobody is alighting or boarding.

The Sydney ferries tend to go directly to the destination wth few stops, except for the Paramatta river ones.

Mark.
The management of people through the citycats is poor, especially the earlier generation. There's only a single door through the front of the vessel, and a single ticket-seller inside. The line to get on often queues up back onto the pontoon.

Bring on the go card and it'll speed up.

Todays SMH reports on overcorwding on the Manly Ferry service during peak periods with as many as 100 standing. Bring back memories of overcrowding in the 1920's and 30's.

Stats were released by Nine News over the weekend that suggested that Jetcat trips had increased from 500 000 in 2002 to more than 800 000 in 2008.

David Campbell, was asked if announcement had been made regarding the successful tender to run the new private service. He indicated it would be made 'Soon'. Bass and Flinders are still tipped to operate the service.

Talking about tenders, I'd like to find out more about Veolia's plans.

David Campbell, was asked if announcement had been made regarding the successful tender to run the new private service. He indicated it would be made 'Soon'.

That interview was pretty ridiculous. He seemed to relish being a prick...

He just kept repeating himself. He can be a looney sometimes when dealing with the press.

Today we did get an announcement - Bass and Flinders was the successful tender and they begin next month.

Realistically only happens late at night. Just slow to a crawl near the terminal, see that no one is waiting, no one inside is making a move to get off, so then just power away to the next stop. Every time I have caught it during the day they stop everywhere because there is just about always someone to get on or off.

Sydney ferries do the same thing. If no-one is ready to get off or there are no people on the wharf they will move along.

Fabs, thanks for the update on the Jetcat replacement, I was back home last week and was a little distressed to discover they still hadn't replaced the service.

Hopefully it will work out well. Sydney Ferries might be whipping horse (another) for the government, but in all the years that I have used them (including to work at the Quay) I have never had a problem with any of the staff or the service in general. Shit happens sometimes.

A very memorable moment for me on the rivercat from Cabarita to the Quay was about 6 years ago when there was a pod of whales in the harbour near the bridge. The rivercat captain asked everyone over the intercom, *Ladies and Gentleman do you mind if we arrive a little later than scheduled? Coming up on our left hand side is a pod of whales, and I will turn the boat around so that those on the right hand side can have a look too*.

No one complained.

In all my years of commuting to work in various forms car/bus/train/ferry, the only memorable experience of any of them was the rivercat from Cabarita to the Quay. The staff you knew, the views and vistas to die for. The schedule was pretty poor, but everything else made up for it.

Cheers,

mx

I listened to a good interview last night on 2UE with Stuart Bocking with the owner of Bass and Flinders Cruises.

He said that the service will operate with no government funding and they will have to pay a wharf access fee to use the wharves at Manly and Circular Quay.

The capacity of 400 includes passengers that choose to stand, however during high seas, only seated passengers would be permitted.

Prices will remain the same as under the jetcats but depending on revenue, may be decreased and ticketing options will also be examined.

A render of the new Bass and Flinders vessel to commence operation in March

http://www.bassflinders.com.au/images/odII_image02.jpg

The vessel looks like crap. Small-looking, top heavy and with feral livery.

The jetcats looked far better IMO. I am disappointed I thought they would have been getting a better loooking and performing vessel (32 knots). I don't like the fact that they only have 2 vessels and neither of them are the same. At least with the jetcats we had continuity and 3 vessels. This is a shit :(

I applaud them for getting in an tackling the problem but I think the government should be more strictly regulating the whole process. I think the craft should be branded with Sydney Ferry livery personally. They should be branded as a commuter vessel regardless of what the operator wants to use them for. It just looks like a hotchpotch IMO. We are creating a disjointed and messy transport network, so much for integration.

You've only seen the rear of the boat. The Bass and Flinders website has some better renders. Obviously they are too big to post here.

Avatar sorry to depress you, but I'm hearing that the journey time will increase to 20 mins. I remember jetcats doing the run in 14 mins and hydrofoils could do it in 12 mins.

Avatar sorry to depress you, but I'm hearing that the journey time will increase to 20 mins. I remember jetcats doing the run in 14 mins and hydrofoils could do it in 12 mins.
20 minutes is better than 35 minutes. And this is what will come to replace the big boats in due course. Better these every 10-15 minutes @ 20 min journey than boats every 30 mins @ 35 min journey. But difference between 14 mins and 20 mins - what does it matter?

Top heavy Avatar LOL. You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I was looking at their website today, Bass and Flinders that is. And I have to agree with Avatar, their boats are inferior to the Jetcats.

The one called ocean dreaming looks a little similar to the jet cats but that is about it. And the newer vessel is ugly and tourist trappy.

All this private ferry business reeks of shoving a problem child in the hands of private operators to fend for themselves. (like Melbourne trains to Connex)

Instead of fully funding the ferry services and buying newer vessels they seem intent on destroying Sydney's iconic ferry services in the name of a few saved dollars. And destroying the ferry's work culture in the process. The last thing Sydney needs now is less public transport, but I suspect the morons in Macquarie Street see the ferry service as nothing more than subsidising rich people to go to work. (I have heard this.)

They seem to forget that Sydney ferries make up only a small amount of public transport travel, but they do add to it, are hugely popular with tourists (both local and overseas) and should be expanded not constrained regardless of the cost involved. You wouldn't cut funding to the opera house would you?

Mr Rees is making a big mistake with this little venture and it will come back and bite him on the arse. Just like the cross city tunnel debacle, people in general will boycott / avoid anything they see as being a rip off, regardless of whether they can afford it or not.

I don't even expect B&F to have a service running ever or for only a very short period of time only.

mx

Five years ago, i posted that there were 14 million trips annually on Sydney Ferries. Compare that to 250 million trips made on the cityrail network each year.

The numbers of commuters using the ferries have been rising. The increased jetcat patronage says something. There are few bus services from Manly direct to the city and not to mention the congestion along Miltary Rd from the Spit Bridge into Mosman and Neutral Bay.

I am also concerned about the possible axing of the Parramatta services, which is also popular with visitors to Sydney.

I was looking at their website today, Bass and Flinders that is. And I have to agree with Avatar, their boats are inferior to the Jetcats.

The one called ocean dreaming looks a little similar to the jet cats but that is about it. And the newer vessel is ugly and tourist trappy.

All this private ferry business reeks of shoving a problem child in the hands of private operators to fend for themselves. (like Melbourne trains to Connex)

Instead of fully funding the ferry services and buying newer vessels they seem intent on destroying Sydney's iconic ferry services in the name of a few saved dollars. And destroying the ferry's work culture in the process. The last thing Sydney needs now is less public transport, but I suspect the morons in Macquarie Street see the ferry service as nothing more than subsidising rich people to go to work. (I have heard this.)

They seem to forget that Sydney ferries make up only a small amount of public transport travel, but they do add to it, are hugely popular with tourists (both local and overseas) and should be expanded not constrained regardless of the cost involved. You wouldn't cut funding to the opera house would you?

Mr Rees is making a big mistake with this little venture and it will come back and bite him on the arse. Just like the cross city tunnel debacle, people in general will boycott / avoid anything they see as being a rip off, regardless of whether they can afford it or not.

I don't even expect B&F to have a service running ever or for only a very short period of time only.

mx

All of which is why it's better in the hands of a small local (not multinational) private operator. It's an excellent decision, but you'd have to know the history to understand why. Not comparable in any way whatsoever to Melbourne's trains. Public servants have proved pathologically incapable of running Sydney's ferries, they have only ever run well in private ownership. And please, how a vessel looks has absolutely nothing to do with its suitabilty and effectiveness for the job. How funny holding up the Jetcats as something attractive - if you want the traditional "image" of Sydney's ferries you have to go back to the double-enders built decades ago. Those times have long gone.

The only thing I'd say is that, while a separate fare structure is fine while it's a premium service segment, if this operational scenario is extended to the whole ferry system it will need to be brought into a Sydney-wide integrated transport structure (when that happens in about 300 years).

You've only seen the rear of the boat. The Bass and Flinders website has some better renders. Obviously they are too big to post here.

Avatar sorry to depress you, but I'm hearing that the journey time will increase to 20 mins. I remember jetcats doing the run in 14 mins and hydrofoils could do it in 12 mins.

Thanks Fabian, I had seen all the renders and hence my response. I was expecting to see some exceptional craft not this shite. Journey times are increasing as they are inferior vessels. 10 knots slower for the ocean dreaming! That's unacceptable.

The Government should be purchasing new vessels from incat.


From Austral
42.5 knots 330 pax
http://www.austal.com/images/delivery/speeder-3.jpg

40 knots 340 pax
http://www.austal.com/images/delivery/opale-2-t.jpg

this one is ok
http://harlingengezien.web-log.nl/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/18/tiger_180408_f.jpg

Another Austral Ship
50 knots lots of pax and cars
Ok so this is a little big but why can't our ferries look more like this?
http://www.austal.com/images/delivery/lilia-1.jpg

Or a baby version of this austral vessel
http://www.austal.com/images/delivery/trimaran-1.jpg

Another Austral Ship
50 knots lots of pax and cars
Ok so this is a little big but why can't our ferries look more like this?
http://www.austal.com/images/delivery/lilia-1.jpg

That is a navy high speed transport ship for the US Marines. I don't know does the Manly to Circular Quay route need a vessel that can carry 152 Hummers?

^^ Bestest idea ever - floating park and ride?

Two ways it could be run:
- Pax drive cars onto boat at Manly, drive off at Circular Quay. Coming back they can do the same in reverse - need for CBD parking but you get a quick trip rather than via the Spit & Military Rd.

- Pax drive cars onto boat at Manly each morning, cars sit on boat at Circular Quay during the off-peak, then catch the same ferry home in the evening, drive home.

:nuts:

This one would be very good for Sydney Harbour. These are real supercats

http://harlingengezien.web-log.nl/photos/uncategorized/2008/04/18/tiger_180408_f.jpg

The vessel looks like crap. Small-looking, top heavy and with feral livery.

The jetcats looked far better IMO. I am disappointed I thought they would have been getting a better loooking and performing vessel (32 knots). I don't like the fact that they only have 2 vessels and neither of them are the same. At least with the jetcats we had continuity and 3 vessels. This is a shit :(

I applaud them for getting in an tackling the problem but I think the government should be more strictly regulating the whole process. I think the craft should be branded with Sydney Ferry livery personally. They should be branded as a commuter vessel regardless of what the operator wants to use them for. It just looks like a hotchpotch IMO. We are creating a disjointed and messy transport network, so much for integration.

I think it was hornetfig that posted that private buses across Sydney were going to be painted in the STA colours but I see no sign of it happening.

The State Government probably wont allow Bass and Flinders to paint their boats in the Sydney Ferries livery and I thought Avatar you didnt like the current green and white livery.

what sydney really needs on this route are these again (getting rid of them was as stupid as ripping up the tram network) -

http://www.foils.org/gallery/longrf.jpg

http://egrefin.free.fr/images/Fairlight/Hydrofoil.jpg

http://www.mattmar.com.au/Ferry_Photos/curl_curl_ii.jpg

but of course, we would want the latest technology -

http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/03/hydrofoil_front.jpg

http://www.projectblackswan.co.uk/images/RCSHOCKHYDROFOIL.jpg

http://www.supramar.ch/seabus1.jpg

http://www.yachtboutique.com/images/110_Galaxy_Hydrofoil_S.jpg

http://www.hydrofoil.com/images/redboat.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1250/933302255_7094d0637a_o.jpg

http://www.foils.org/gallery/ducksml.jpg

http://www.histarmar.com.ar/InfGral/Hidroalas/The%20Up-Right%20Hydrofoil%20Kits_archivos/langfig2.jpg

http://my.fit.edu/~swood/images/hydrofoil1.bmp

Or, we could all have our own and could therefore bypass spit bridge altogether. Park and Ride could be built as marinas!

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/01_05/hydrofoilcar3BAR_468x302.jpg

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/01_05/hydrofoilcar1BAR_468x311.jpg

http://www.simonwhatley.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/rinspeed_splash_hydrofoil.jpg

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/01_05/hydrofoilcar2BAR_468x311.jpg

http://www.motorauthority.com/wp-content/uploads/Rinspeed/Splash/rinspeed_splash.jpg

http://www.nextautos.com/files/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/cc_finish_1.jpg

http://info.detnews.com/pix/blogs/newsmakers/squba_rear_650%5B1%5D.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/68/155459862_35807bfc92.jpg

http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2008/01/24/hydrofoil-water-scooter_6648.jpg

^^ Bestest idea ever - floating park and ride?

Two ways it could be run:
- Pax drive cars onto boat at Manly, drive off at Circular Quay. Coming back they can do the same in reverse - need for CBD parking but you get a quick trip rather than via the Spit & Military Rd.

- Pax drive cars onto boat at Manly each morning, cars sit on boat at Circular Quay during the off-peak, then catch the same ferry home in the evening, drive home.

:nuts:

now you're thinking! just like me...

The hydrofoils were cool, but there were problems with turning them around etc to do return runs. I dont think they can cope with the increasing numbers using the highspeed run. The older models could only take around 115, and the first Hydrofoil - Manly only had a capacity of 72.

The ones that came in the 1980's had a capacity of 240, similar to the jetcats

http://www.mattmar.com.au/Ferry_Photos/manly_iv.jpg.

I only rode on them once - I was 4 years old and I remember the water splashing on the windows as they went to Manly.

Keep in mind, it's the first time since 1974 that the run has been privately operated under the Port Jackson Steamship Company then Brambles who stuffed it up completely forcing the government to buy the Manly run off them. This also included the regular Manly to Circular Quay service in those days.

That is a navy high speed transport ship for the US Marines. I don't know does the Manly to Circular Quay route need a vessel that can carry 152 Hummers?


Actually the following are used by the navy. The navy use vessels by astral and Incat. Even Australia's Navy was using them at one stage to east timor.

HMAS Jervis Bay
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200805/r252244_1038417.jpg



US Naval vessel
http://www.modelshipmaster.com/products/modern_navy/02_joint_venture.jpg

US Naval vessel
http://www.modelshipmaster.com/products/modern_navy/02_joint_venture.jpg

HSV, now that's what I like to see. Americans are finally getting the picture. lol

I caught a private ferry on a State Transit service from McMahons Point to Circular Quay this evening, but I've forgotten the company's name, dammit! I couldn't get any pics either as the camera's memory was full, double dammit!!

Here's a few I got earlier, of State Transit ferries (plus sundry other vessels):

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/sydney005.jpg http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/sydney006.jpg

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/sydney002.jpg

Small update on the ferry problem in Sydney.

New ferry already failed on Manly run
Brisbane Times :D
Alexandra Smith | January 29, 2009
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/new-ferry-already-failed-on-manly-run/2009/01/28/1232818532102.html

ONE of the private ferries that will replace the axed Manly JetCat was so unsuitable for the route when Sydney Ferries leased the boat three years ago that it was taken out of service just days after its contract began.

The 34-metre whale-watching vessel, Ocean Dreaming, owned by Bass and Flinders, will begin peak-hour services between Manly and Circular Quay next month to ease the worsening commuter congestion on the slower ferry service.

But doubt has been cast over its suitability because of problems in 2006 when Ocean Dreaming was leased by Sydney Ferries under a $20,000-a-day deal to travel the Manly route while the trouble-plagued Collaroy ferry was awaiting repairs.

Ferry workers at the time claimed Ocean Dreaming was too large to dock at Manly Wharf and could only use wharf three at Circular Quay because of its size. It was taken out of service after a few days when it damaged a gearbox.

Bass and Flinders's managing director, Richard Ford, said the gearbox issue had been resolved but conceded that the vessel was not ideal for the service and would simply "bridge the gap" until a more suitable ferry was available, probably in April.

Mr Ford denied there had been problems with docking at wharves in 2006 and said there would be no issues this time.

"Manly Wharf has changed, so there are no problems there, and there will be a gangway, a ramp, at Circular Quay," he said.

"These measures are interim and most likely she will become a breakdown boat."

Mr Ford said Ocean Dreaming was in service for 14 hours a day when it was contracted to Sydney Ferries in 2006, which was too long for it, but next month it would operate for only three hours during the peak periods.

"I'm sure we are going to have some issues managing crowds in the initial period because commuters are used to a particular service but once we can get the message out about our service, things will improve," he said.

Bass and Flinders was awarded the 12-month contract to run a fast ferry service to Manly after the State Government scrapped the problematic JetCat last last year. It had promised to have a replacement service operating by January 12.

It is understood Bass and Flinders is in talks with Palm Beach Ferries about using vessels from its fleet but Mr Ford would not comment because he was still negotiating the terms of its contract with the Government.

Mr Ford said the family-owned company was contracted to operate the service for 12 months as a stopgap measure.

"This is not a long-term solution … we don't have a fleet of three identical vessels, which is ideally what you want," he said.

The Greens MP Lee Rhiannon said the Transport Minister, David Campbell, needed to address any potential problems before the new services began.

"This is evidence that the Government's decision to privatise high-speed ferry services to Manly risks becoming another transport blunder," Ms Rhiannon said.

"One attraction of privatisation for the Government is that when services fail it does not carry the can, despite that fact commuters will be left with a substandard service."

-------------------------

Mark.

Sydney Ferries usually lease ferries from Palm Beach Ferries as well. They did so a few years ago for inner harbour run for instance.

Going back to the hydrofoils for a second, how fast were they compared to the Jetcat?

Sydney Ferries usually lease ferries from Palm Beach Ferries as well. They did so a few years ago for inner harbour run for instance.

Yeah they did, and those ferries were awful, hard plastic seating, noisey and revolting and just plain awful. And slow....

mx

Some Ferry spotting I did on Wednesday

There was one Palm Beach Ferry on loan to Sydney Ferries. Palm Beach Ferries are owned by Queensland Ferry Company - Fantasea (http://www.fantasea.com.au/) operating on the Great Barrier Reef.

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8563/dscf9292al3.jpg

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1795/dscf9246nj8.jpg

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3865/dscf9235fe9.jpg

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/6218/dscf9232wn3.jpg

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7855/dscf9231vi3.jpg

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/8660/dscf9289bh0.jpg

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/9802/dscf9288qc4.jpg

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/7969/dscf9280rf1.jpg

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/2373/dscf9279ky2.jpg

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1002/dscf9276qm9.jpg

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9595/dscf9255lj1.jpg

Excellent shots Fabs,

I wish they had kept the blue and white for the Supercats, they are a stunning craft.

Cheers,

mx

Tomorrow's Manly Daily (which is online as of 7:30pm AEDT) reports that the new fast service will commence next week, either Monday or Wednesday.

A smartcard option will be available and tickets will be sold onboard.

While the new ferry awaits delivery to Bass and Flinders, Ocean Dreaming along with Eye Spy (owned by Brisbane Whale Watching based at Redcliffe, Queensland) will operate the service.

This photo I took at Redcliffe in November of Eye Spy comes in handy. Didnt think I'd have to use it.

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/9111/dscf7818yg8.jpg

Sydney Jetcat

Length overall: 34.80m
Length waterline: 30.45m
Beam: 10.00m
Draft max: 1.00m
Fuel capacity: 8,800 litres
Fresh water capacity: 500 litres
Service speed: 35 knots
Loaded displacement: 105 tonnes
Deadweight: 17 tonnes
Installed power: 2 x 2250 hp
Main engines: 2 x MWM Deutz 620 TBD 16V
Propulsion system: Waterjets
Passenger capacity: 250
Survey: Maritime Services Board of NSW Class 1D
Construction material:


Hydrofoil Type RHS140
Type : Hydrofoil
Launched : 1972
Builder : Cantiere Navaltechnica S.P.A. Messina, Italy
Gross weight : 129 tons
Dimensions : 26.70 x 5.85 (metres)
Passenger capacity :120
Speed : 32 knots

I think the earlier and smaller PT50 could manage 50 knots.


Blue Dolphin
Type : Hovercraft
Launched : 1973
Builder : Hovermarine Transport Ltd Southampton, England
Displacement : 20,185 kg (mass)
Dimensions : 51.0m x 20.0m
Passenger capacity : 62
Speed : 35 knots

I was talking to a navy sailor friend and apparently top speed through this section of the harbour is 25 knots.

Wow, nice BIG ferries! :) Where can I see a map, the first page's map is lost...

And Avy I hope you have a spare $500 000 because you can buy one of the jetcats off Sydney Ferries. You may be lucky to get all three for a million :D:D:D

Services started today on the new fast run between Manly and the city - http://manlyfastferry.com.au

And Avy I hope you have a spare $500 000 because you can buy one of the jetcats off Sydney Ferries. You may be lucky to get all three for a million :D:D:D


I have considered it . Don't you worry about that! Imagine rocking up at Obelisk on a hot Summer's day in a sleek, newly painted black and silver jetcat. It could look very cool. Maybe I should get my mates to all chip in and we will go time-share on one.

Pity a private company doesn't buy them all and use them on the manly to circular Quay run and show it can be done much better than Sydney Ferries could do it.

And dont forget to invite me. :D

It would have been good if Sydney Ferries at least lent them the jetcats to use in the interim instead of forking out money to hire the boats.

Ocean Dreaming was not in use today from what I saw, relying on leased boats to do the run.

This includes the one from Brisbane as posted on the following page. They also are using one of the Palm Beach Ferries below.

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8563/dscf9292al3.jpg

And I was surprised to see the 'Lady Rose' from All Occasions Cruises in use. I have been on harbour cruises organised by the uni on this boat and there is no seating inside, so I presume commuters would have to sit on plastic chairs for their trip into town. The rooftop deck has metallic benches to sit on and the same along the bow of the boat.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4852/p3177479lf3.jpg

Cronulla Ferries, http://cronullaferries.com.au, runs an hourly ferry service across Port Hacking between Cronulla and Bundeena.

The recently upgraded Cronulla wharf, on Gunnamatta Bay, just a short walk down from the railway station:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar005.jpg

The timetable:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar002-1.jpg

The ferry, having just arrived from Bundeena:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar001-1.jpg

The ferry, the "MV Curranulla", berthed at Cronulla wharf:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar004-1.jpg

The interior, from the stern:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar005-1.jpg

Departing Cronulla:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar006.jpg

Before entering Port Hacking we pass quite close to the shoreline of Burraneer, on the opposite side of Gunnamatta Bay (next 3 pics):

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar007.jpg

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar008.jpg

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar010.jpg

Obey the speed limit within Gunnamatta Bay!:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar009.jpg

Crossing Port Hacking, looking west:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar011.jpg

Crossing Port Hacking, looking east:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar012.jpg

Bundeena in sight:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar013.jpg

Approaching Bundeena wharf:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar014.jpg

We have disembarked, and the next load to Cronulla boards:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar015.jpg

Bundeena wharf and ferry:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar016.jpg

The "MV Curranulla" returning to Cronulla:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar017.jpg

The ferry crossing Port hacking:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar018.jpg

The "MV Curranulla" arriving at Bundeena wharf:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar033.jpg

Passengers boarding at Bundeena:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar034.jpg

Bye bye Bundeena:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar035.jpg

One more time:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar036.jpg

Off-topic: what is this large white building on the Cronulla shore facing Bundeena, some huge mansion?:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar037.jpg

Captain's bridge (if that's the correct term):

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar038.jpg

Doorway into the Captain's bridge. There are two brass signs under the window. The smaller top sign reads: "The CAPTAIN'S word is law", and the larger lower sign reads: "nobody's perfect-except the Captain":

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar043.jpg

The interior, from the bow:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar042.jpg

Approaching Cronulla:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar040.jpg

Almost there. The other green, yellow and white boat tied up at the wharf, the "Tom Thumb III", is used by the same company for cruises on Port Hacking:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar041.jpg

The ferry departs for Bundeena once more:

http://i546.photobucket.com/albums/hh423/lijman/febmar044.jpg

More photos: http://cronullaferries.com.au//content/view/16/31/

Excellent photo's. I have friend that live in Bundeena but haven't been there is years.

*yay*

mx

There will be a stopwork meeting between 9am and 4pm tomorrow for Sydney Ferries workers to vote on a new enterprise agreements. Thats one very long meeting.

No ferries will run. Charter buses will operate between the City and Manly for those on the northside.

Fair enough. It's not like it's going to totally inconvenience a lot of people.

Other forms of transport have been put in place. It's not like an airline strike where people are left with no other forms of transport.

From my perspective, both the union and the government have to agree on some sort of restructuring program that will enhance and put money back into the ferry system. Flogging it off will never work. And it is an integrated part of Sydney's public transport network. As well as being a tourist drawcard, one of the things recent management at Sydney ferries never *think about*.

Please don't change the culture though.

mx

The ferries are an integral part of life in Sydney just like the trams in Melbourne.
At least they are prepared for this and work and other transport operators to get people moving such as recognising the tickets on trains and buses.

The ferries are an integral part of life in Sydney just like the trams in Melbourne.
Is this even a serious post?

Take off your rose-coloured glasses and look at the role trams play in Melbourne, vs how little the ferries do in Sydney. :ohno:

The ferries are an integral part of life in Sydney just like the trams in Melbourne.
At least they are prepared for this and work and other transport operators to get people moving such as recognising the tickets on trains and buses.

It's a shame they have to recognise tickets. Ree's would do well if he simply instituted a zone system similar to travelpasses but for everyone.

Like Melbourne.

mx

Is this even a serious post?

Take off your rose-coloured glasses and look at the role trams play in Melbourne, vs how little the ferries do in Sydney. :ohno:

I think Fabs was making a reference to the fact that both Sydney and Melbourne are well known equally for their Trams and Ferries as icons.

I know I would prefer a ferry anyday, over a filthy Melbourne tram. Lets face it, they are as slow as each other.

:banana:

mx

Take off your rose-coloured glasses and look at the role trams play in Melbourne, vs how little the ferries do in Sydney. :ohno:
Compare the service levels of the two. Melbourne's trams run every 12-15 minutes during the day, every 20 minutes until 11:30pm Mon-Sat, and half-hourly Sunday evening to 11pm. Meanwhile check out the woeful service levels (http://www.railmaps.com.au/sydney.htm) of Sydney's ferries. The way things are at the moment, there's no way the ferries in Sydney play nearly as much of a role as they could!

Compare the service levels of the two. Melbourne's trams run every 12-15 minutes during the day, every 20 minutes until 11:30pm Mon-Sat, and half-hourly Sunday evening to 11pm. Meanwhile check out the woeful service levels (http://www.railmaps.com.au/sydney.htm) of Sydney's ferries. The way things are at the moment, there's no way the ferries in Sydney play nearly as much of a role as they could!

Did I suggest that service levels were the same, or patronage?

What I was suggesting was that for an Icon for a city, Melbourne trams have a lot to be desired. Nothing flash, nothing glamorous, just Melbourne.

mx

Patronage isnt too bad under the new owners of the fast Manly run.
They even have a bar to have a quick drink on the way home.

From The Sydney Morning Herald (smh.com.au)

All plain sailing as Manly's fast ferries get 'way to go' nod
Date: May 11 2009


Alexandra Smith and Thomas Graham

FOR Locky Cornwell, the fact that the Manly Fast Ferry departs for Circular Quay at exactly 8.05am - the scheduled time - is just part of the vessel's attraction.

"The facilities are much better and the staff are more enthusiastic," said the 25-year-old accountant. "Everything is clean and fresh."

The ferry's interior is certainly pristine and the fittings are brand new. Four large plasma televisions show the latest news and passengers sit in newly upholstered chairs around tables while others gather at the long bar at the stern.

It is a far cry from the troubled and aged JetCat, which was axed by the Government after years of unreliability.

Unlike its predecessor, the new service has not had one cancellation since it started operating in February and it is already carrying 2150 passengers a day, just shy of the JetCat's 2500 daily count.

The director of the service, Richard Ford, said the response from passengers had been very encouraging.

"The feedback we have been getting is very positive. People seem to really like our service," Mr Ford said.

But it was a rocky start for

the fast ferry service, which initially had boats that were used for its whale watching tours and weddings.

The Maritime Union ran a campaign against the fast ferry in the early days of the service, picketing at Circular Quay in protest against the possible privatisation of Sydney Ferries.

But it is not surprising that the travel-weary Manly commuters have embraced the new service, which boasts on-board entertainment and a licensed bar for the trip home.

Mr Cornwell said: "Before, there were several occasions when the JetCats were just cancelled. Because they only had three in the fleet, if one was cancelled, that was the end of it.

"Now, people always use

the bar, you see people up there most afternoons having a beer on the way home from work.

It's great."

Ryan Bernal, an advertising director, also takes the ferry every morning to work.

"The boats on this service are newer and nicer, that's for sure," Mr Bernal said. "There always used to be delays without warning. You'd just show up and the JetCat wasn't running because there was something wrong with the engine. The new service is much more consistent."

Any selloff of the ferries is likely to be scrapped.

From The Daily Telegraph (dailytelegraph.com.au)
Ferries will cost $1 billion to stay afloat
EXCLUSIVE by Simon Benson

May 21, 2009 12:00am

THE State Government's promise to sell Sydney Ferries looks set to be scrapped in a backflip which could cost NSW taxpayers $1 billion over the next 10 years.

The Daily Telegraph has learned that Premier Nathan Rees has indicated to Cabinet colleagues that he was having second thoughts on the privatisation plans following threats of industrial strife by maritime unions.

At least three companies that had submitted bids to the Government to take over the disaster prone agency have also pulled out following similar threats.

The backflip is likely to risk the State's AAA credit rating after the June budget, with ratings agencies warning the State Government that its economic credibility rested on a commitment to reform.

The backflip, another in a string of policy U-turns for the Rees Government, will mean taxpayers will have to continue subsidising Sydney ferries by up to $50 million a year.

The Government will also have to wear the cost of a $300-$500 million upgrade of the ailing fleet, bringing the cost of keeping the service in public hands at $1 billion over the next 10 years.

A senior Government source said there was now a resignation that Mr Rees would back out on the reform, after promising to sell the service to the private sector by October if it could demonstrate a more efficient model.

"The message coming out of his office is certainly that the pain (of privatisation) is not worth the gain," the source said.

One of the companies involved in the process confirmed that the Maritime Union of Australia had embarked on a campaign of industrial sabotage, threatening industrial action against the company's other operations if they bid for Sydney Ferries.

Other companies contacted confirmed similar threats.

Mr Rees is also believed to have been pressured by MUA officials.

The business community has warned that the ferries sale would be a defining issue for the Rees Government.

"The business community will judge the Premier and the Government on this," managing director of the Tourism Transport Forum Chris Brown, said

Any selloff of the ferries is likely to be scrapped.

From The Daily Telegraph (dailytelegraph.com.au)
Ferries will cost $1 billion to stay afloat
EXCLUSIVE by Simon Benson

May 21, 2009 12:00am

THE State Government's promise to sell Sydney Ferries looks set to be scrapped in a backflip which could cost NSW taxpayers $1 billion over the next 10 years.

The Daily Telegraph has learned that Premier Nathan Rees has indicated to Cabinet colleagues that he was having second thoughts on the privatisation plans following threats of industrial strife by maritime unions.

At least three companies that had submitted bids to the Government to take over the disaster prone agency have also pulled out following similar threats.

The backflip is likely to risk the State's AAA credit rating after the June budget, with ratings agencies warning the State Government that its economic credibility rested on a commitment to reform.

The backflip, another in a string of policy U-turns for the Rees Government, will mean taxpayers will have to continue subsidising Sydney ferries by up to $50 million a year.

The Government will also have to wear the cost of a $300-$500 million upgrade of the ailing fleet, bringing the cost of keeping the service in public hands at $1 billion over the next 10 years.

A senior Government source said there was now a resignation that Mr Rees would back out on the reform, after promising to sell the service to the private sector by October if it could demonstrate a more efficient model.

"The message coming out of his office is certainly that the pain (of privatisation) is not worth the gain," the source said.

One of the companies involved in the process confirmed that the Maritime Union of Australia had embarked on a campaign of industrial sabotage, threatening industrial action against the company's other operations if they bid for Sydney Ferries.

Other companies contacted confirmed similar threats.

Mr Rees is also believed to have been pressured by MUA officials.

The business community has warned that the ferries sale would be a defining issue for the Rees Government.

"The business community will judge the Premier and the Government on this," managing director of the Tourism Transport Forum Chris Brown, said

More terrograph style scaremongering by the SMH. Sometimes it's hard to pick between the two.

I'm sure the big end of town would get mighty upset if Sydney Ferries were privatised and the subsequent fares rose to match the cost of the service. (considering the average wage of a Sydney Ferries pax is double that of all the other transport options in Sydney - you can look that one up on the government website)

There is nothing wrong with the Sydney Ferries workforce, the biggest problem has been a very simple factor.. *underfunded*

mx

I think this netwook needs work.......I live in Wheelers Hill Victoria and I haven't seen a Sydney Ferry around here..........since I lived here.....don't give me any of that no harbour wrong state no water stuff......i want action....when do we want it...now!

I think this netwook needs work.......I live in Wheelers Hill Victoria and I haven't seen a Sydney Ferry around here..........
I think if you put on your goggles and flippers you'll find the Lady Chelmsford sitting on the bottom of the Yarra River. :)

Questions have been raised as to whether or not Parramatta will benefit from the improvements to Rivercat services.

From The Parramatta Sun (parramattasun.com.au)

Ferry plan raises doubts - some wonder if it will be a full service
BY ALISON MILLS
24/06/2009 11:01:00 AM
THE decision to maintain a government-operated ferry service between Parramatta and Sydney at a cost of $4million over two years has drawn mixed reviews.

Former Parramatta Chamber of Commerce president Roman Dechnicz described the pre-budget announcement as ``a hollow victory, a Clayton's victory''.


Parramatta Council, MP Tanya Gadiel, the chamber under Mr Dechnicz's leadership and the Sun waged the Keep Our Boat Afloat campaign during 2008.


It was in response to a recommendation in the 2007 Walker Report into Sydney Ferries Corporation to axe the service. The campaigners lobbied for a full commuter ferry service for Parramatta.


Mr Dechnicz said he doubted the decision would result in a ``ridgey didge'' commuter ferry service and questioned the validity of previously announced moves to privatise the service.


Late last year Premier Nathan Rees announced tenders for a privatised Parramatta commuter ferry service. Tenders have also been called for a private operator to take over other Sydney Ferries services.



The chamber's current president, Trevor Oldfield, welcomed the decision saying he was ``thrilled'' the proposed new service would have extended operating hours.


But the Parramatta announcement is said to have ``perplexed'' some in the transport industry, including two major private transport operators who were among those to submit tenders for the service.


An industry source, who did not want to be named, said the decision had ``muddied the waters'' and seemed ``a bit of an indulgence'' by Mr Rees.


Parramatta Council said it would wait until details of the proposed service were released before commenting but was adamant the city needed a commuter service with stops at the growing suburbs along the Parramatta River.

..

^ Nice Lijman,

I keep meaning to go get photos of its operation but never have, despite living so close.

Does it still only do the weekday peak periods or can I catch it on a weekend?

..

..

lovely shot.

A Queensland Company that bought out the jetcats in July has resold them to a foreign compnay and made a profit on it. - http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/12/10/2767379.htm

Sydney Ferries will remain in public hands according to media reports today.

For the next 15 months anyway... as if the Liberals won't privatise.

Not that I am against that - there is no reason why a private operator under strict contract conditions could not run a better service with the same level of funding.

MP for Manly Mike Baird (Liberal) has not ruled it out.
Yesterdays news is a win for commuters and the unions.

Here is an article from The Manly Daily announcing the news.

Sydney Ferries to stay in Government hands
22 Dec 09 @ 12:58pm
SYDNEY Ferries will not be privatised.
And it will continue to operate as a State Government-run service after the government decided the private sector could not do it better.
Premier Kristina Keneally and Transport Minister David Campbell yesterday announced the 14-month-long market testing process had found Sydney Ferries could outperform private companies TransdevTSL and Veolia Transport, which were both competing for the contract.
In October 2008 the government brought Sydney Ferries back under its direct control in response to a scathing independent inquiry into the service the Walker Inquiry which recommended privatisation of the organisation be considered and its ageing fleet of vessels replaced.
The government later called for private tenders for the service, with TransdevTSL and Veolia Transport being shortlisted.
The Transport Minister had consistently said it would be up to the private sector to demonstrate it could beat Sydney Ferries’ benchmarks, otherwise the organisation would retain its contract.
Yesterday’s announcement the ferry service had won was immediately celebrated by the Maritime Union of Australia.
But it drew instant scorn from the Opposition and Infrastructure Partnerships Australia, both accusing the government of bowing to union pressure.
The announcement also follows Sydney Ferries’ most recent annual report which recorded a deficit of more than $14.5 million.
But the Premier and Transport Minister said the ferry service had improved significantly in the past year and should retain the contract.
Ms Keneally said the decision was made at last week’s budget committee and a new service agreement would be signed with Sydney Ferries in the first quarter of next year.
``I have listened to the community and responded. We believe the decision to keep Sydney Ferries in public hands is in the best interests of Sydneysiders,’’ Ms Keneally said.
Mr Campbell said Sydney Ferries had made serious improvements in terms of on-time running, service reliability and safety.
``We listened very carefully to what the broader community said, and they don’t want this privatised,’’ Mr Campbell said.
``The market testing exercise and most importantly recent improvements in on-time running, reliability, and a 50 per cent reduction in complaints in the last couple of years has demonstrated that the government can move forward with Sydney Ferries as the operator, subject to the negotiation around a very tight service-level contract.’’
But Mr Campbell said Sydney Ferries would ``need to continue to improve their delivery of service and I think they understand that’’.
He said the public and private sector comparison data would be made publicly available once the negotiations were finished.
Infrastructure Partnerships of Australia executive director Brett Gale said the government had bowed to union pressure.
Manly State Liberal MP Mike Baird warned if the Opposition won government in 2011, privatisation was still an option.

Rivercat at Rydalmere

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/9382/69195590.jpg

Despite the success of Bass & Flinders Fast Ferry service, David Campbell has decided not to grant a contract to the company.

Sydney Fast Ferries won the contract from April 1. It means that Manly Fast Ferries will relocate their Manly mooring to the eastern end of the pier and will operate from East Circular Quay instead of Wharf 2.

It is claimed to offer a faster service.

From The Manly Daily (manlydaily.com.au)

New ferry service ‘fastest’
04 Jan 10 @ 05:34pm by JOHN MORCOMBE
THE operators of the high-speed ferry service from Manly to the city from April 1 say commuters will enjoy the fastest run in its history.

Instead of only one or two people entering or leaving the vessel at a time, new operator Sydney Fast Ferries said the two boats it is having built in Brisbane will be capable of having four or five people at a time moving through each vessel’s doorways.

Sydney Fast Ferries spokesman Kym Lennox said this will expedite the turnaround time at each end of the run which, combined with faster boat speeds, means commuters will have the fastest service ever.

Mr Lennox said once the new vessels are in service - hopefully by October - the run from Manly to the city will take only 15 minutes.

This is three minutes less than any previous service.

He said the company will use a smart-card ticketing system and is also looking at having an online ticketing system.

In the meantime, Sydney Fast Ferries will lease two vessels from Townsville in Queensland while the two new ones are being built at Brisbane. The leased vessels will be 30m long and can carry 300 passengers, whereas the new vessels will be 35m long and carry more passengers. The company has already promised to increase the number of high-speed services while maintaining fares at their current rate for “as long as possible”.

Sydney Fast Ferries was awarded the five-year contract ahead of other tenderers, which included TransdevTSL, Veolia Transport and the current operator, Manly Fast Ferry, which will continue to operate the high-speed service until April.

Manly Liberal MP Mike Baird still believes the tender for the high-speed ferry service should be re-issued because he said the State Government put more emphasis on income to the government from access to wharves than it placed on performance or reliability for commuters.

Did I post anything about the money Sydney ferries lost on the sale of the 3 jetcats and parts? the contract was bodged and the Sydney ferries lost $2million on the deal. Selling them to a QLD broker for $1Million who then immediately onsold two vessels to the Phillipines and one to Korea for a total of $3Million. Gotta love the fuckheads running our ferry services.

I remember the jetcats going for just $400 000 each. That was shocking.

Despite the success of Bass & Flinders Fast Ferry service, David Campbell has decided not to grant a contract to the company.

Sydney Fast Ferries won the contract from April 1. It means that Manly Fast Ferries will relocate their Manly mooring to the eastern end of the pier and will operate from East Circular Quay instead of Wharf 2.

It is claimed to offer a faster service.

From The Manly Daily (manlydaily.com.au)

New ferry service ‘fastest’
04 Jan 10 @ 05:34pm by JOHN MORCOMBE
THE operators of the high-speed ferry service from Manly to the city from April 1 say commuters will enjoy the fastest run in its history.

Instead of only one or two people entering or leaving the vessel at a time, new operator Sydney Fast Ferries said the two boats it is having built in Brisbane will be capable of having four or five people at a time moving through each vessel’s doorways.

Sydney Fast Ferries spokesman Kym Lennox said this will expedite the turnaround time at each end of the run which, combined with faster boat speeds, means commuters will have the fastest service ever.

Mr Lennox said once the new vessels are in service - hopefully by October - the run from Manly to the city will take only 15 minutes.

This is three minutes less than any previous service.

He said the company will use a smart-card ticketing system and is also looking at having an online ticketing system.

In the meantime, Sydney Fast Ferries will lease two vessels from Townsville in Queensland while the two new ones are being built at Brisbane. The leased vessels will be 30m long and can carry 300 passengers, whereas the new vessels will be 35m long and carry more passengers. The company has already promised to increase the number of high-speed services while maintaining fares at their current rate for “as long as possible”.

Sydney Fast Ferries was awarded the five-year contract ahead of other tenderers, which included TransdevTSL, Veolia Transport and the current operator, Manly Fast Ferry, which will continue to operate the high-speed service until April.

Manly Liberal MP Mike Baird still believes the tender for the high-speed ferry service should be re-issued because he said the State Government put more emphasis on income to the government from access to wharves than it placed on performance or reliability for commuters.

I am trying to find information on the new vessels they will be building. I am hopeful it will be an Incat or Austral design. They say they are abouth the same size as the old jetcats at about 35m but faster than the old jetcats which ran at 30 knots. That would put these at about 35 knots to 40 knots I guess. There are speed restrictions in the harbour I wonder if they are immune to these? Hmmm I want the old ones back :( I am hopeful these new ones will be better when we get to see them around september.

any idea of what the fares will be?

Despite the success of Bass & Flinders Fast Ferry service, David Campbell has decided not to grant a contract to the company.

...
New ferry service ‘fastest’
...
He said the company will use a smart-card ticketing system and is also looking at having an online ticketing system.

....

Nothing Yet. I am still waiting for the website to go up - http://www.sydneyfastferries.com.au/

Nothing Yet. I am still waiting for the website to go up - http://www.sydneyfastferries.com.au/

I'd be interested to note whether they will fit under the mutli tickets.

mx

They wont be available as it is classified as a premium service.

A model of the former ferry Lady Woodward on display at the Powerhouse Museum

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/1971/dscf5026.jpg

http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/1584/dscf5025.jpg

In action 1991 (Grahame Andrews)

http://www.shf.org.au/GAndrewsFiles/FerriesWImages/LADY%20WOODWARD%20berths,%201991.File%201123-4..jpg

They wont be available as it is classified as a premium service.

I don't have a problem with this. The NSW government provides the basic ferry service and people who want to go faster catch a private ferry that recovers costs.

I assume if you save 10-15 minutes on the journey, this increases the effective isochrone radius from CQ that the service penetrates to. Provided the bus service at the Manly end is also effective it can be an excellent service, better than any rail line and much quicker and more reliable than driving yourself.

The Manly Daily takes a good look at the increased competition.

Three-ferry race for commuter dollar
30 Mar 10 @ 05:50pm
MANLY ferry commuters will for the first time have a choice between three services to the city, including two high-speed services, from dawn tomorrow.

Manly Fast Ferry, Sydney Fast Ferries and Sydney Ferries will all be in competition for commuters’ patronage, but the real showdown will be between the two express peak-period services, which will engage in a head-to-head battle with almost identical vessels, timetables and fares.

The unprecedented situation arose when the State Government scrapped the Manly jetcats in November 2008, deregulated the express service and awarded Manly Fast Ferry the interim 12-month contract.

Who will win this (apart from the commuters)? Have your say below.

Sydney Fast Ferries then won an open tender for a five-year contract for the service, but because the express service had been deregulated there was nothing stopping the current operators from continuing to run, albeit from different areas at Manly Wharf and Circular Quay.

From tomorrow it will use the Manly Pier Wharf outside the Manly Wharf Hotel and the eastern pontoon at Circular Quay.

Yesterday, the three ferry services outlined to The Manly Daily why commuters should choose them over their competitors.

Having built a solid, loyal customer base over the past 12 months, Manly Fast Ferry’s chief executive, Richard Ford, said it would be ``business as usual’’ and their customers had given every indication they would continue to support the family-owned company.

``For us, it’s the proven reliability of our service over the past 12 months,’’ Mr Ford said.

Mr Ford said it would soon introduce $6.50 fares each way for customers who bought a prepaid monthly ticket.

Kym Lennox, spokesman for Sydney Fast Ferries, also flagged reliability as paramount and said its service would use a different method to measure reliability, with arrival and departure times monitored.

``If we are 90 seconds late leaving Manly Wharf we would be able to make up that time on the run,’’ Mr Lennox said.

He said safety would be ``sacrosanct’’ and its vessels and staff were in compliance with the most recent 2010 NSW Maritime safety standards.

Mr Lennox said once its custom-built boats arrived next year, they would be ``the pride of Sydney’’.

A spokesman from the government-run Sydney Ferries said customers had ``seen a number of improvements to our service, which has a near 100 per cent reliability record’’.

``Sydney Ferries is exploring the option of installing free wi-fi on board,’’ he said.

From April 18, the new $41 per week MyZone MyMulti1 will begin.

Manly Fast Ferry, Sydney Fast Ferries and Sydney Ferries will all be in competition for commuters’ patronage, but the real showdown will be between the two express peak-period services, which will engage in a head-to-head battle with almost identical vessels, timetables and fares.



^^

"Manly Fast Ferry, Sydney Fast Ferries and Sydney Ferries" - im already getting confused by the names.

I'd rather see the boats on new ferry routes, like to Sydney-Woy Woy, Middle Harbour or around Botany Bay and the Georges River for a change.

I'll be lolling if a boat can get down from Woy or Gosford to Syd faster than a train. That'll be the ultimate vote of no confidence in the NSW govt and its transport lack of planning.

There have been problems with the group attempting to operate a fast service from Ettalong through to Circular Quay.

Back on Manly, the locals are winners as they have three providers to choose from.

The fares are as follows for a single ride

Manly Fast Ferries (Bass & Flinders) - $8.50
Sydney Fast Ferries - $9
Sydney Ferries - $6.40

Seven News Report

YLiPbZvvZC8

I saw the ferries that are operated by Sydney Fast Ferries moored at Blackwattle Bay over the weekend. They don't look too bad, but I eagerly await their new ferries which will cut journey times from 18 minutes to 15 minutes.

How is it all going with the three ferry operators? Does one seem to be winning over the other? Is it actually making a difference in trying to attract more people to take the ferry?

It's too early to guess - but the battle is more between Manly Fast Ferries and Sydney Fast Ferries, both premium operators. For the past few weeks timetables by both operators have been nearly identical though Sydney Fast Ferries is planning to make changes.

Sydney Fast Ferries also sell daypass return tickets, for one trip from Circular Quay to Manly in the morning and a return ticket back during the PM peak.

Does anyone know if this is going ahead? http://www.batessmart.com.au/#/projects/adaptive-reuse-+-refurbishment/sydney-harbour-wharves-upgrade-sydney/proj/photo0

It's begun with the Milsons Point Wharf due to be complete by late october

http://www.sydneyferries.info/maps/wharf-upgrade-program.htm

It's begun with the Milsons Point Wharf due to be complete by late october

http://www.sydneyferries.info/maps/wharf-upgrade-program.htm

Wow that CQ pic looks epic.

The CQ wharves really aren't that bad though, the Cahill expressway removal should be #1 priority

There are two big cranes at Milsons Point wharf that are being used as for the upgrades.

^^

"Manly Fast Ferry, Sydney Fast Ferries and Sydney Ferries" - im already getting confused by the names.

I'd rather see the boats on new ferry routes, like to Sydney-Woy Woy, Middle Harbour or around Botany Bay and the Georges River for a change.

They also have the same shit colours and lame arse branding that looks like it was done by a high school student using MS word.

Sydney Fast Ferries have had terrible paintjobs done on their temporary ferries. I hope the new ferries look alot better.

^^

"Manly Fast Ferry, Sydney Fast Ferries and Sydney Ferries" - im already getting confused by the names.

I'd rather see the boats on new ferry routes, like to Sydney-Woy Woy, Middle Harbour or around Botany Bay and the Georges River for a change.

They need bigger, higher, faster vessels for the Central Coast routes. The old jetcats would have been ok.

Or even the Hydrofoils.

2010 and still nothing with the Ettalong run? What has been going on up there Avatar?

I have no idea, I don't hear much from up there and never keep up with the local central coast news. It's one of those typicaly central coast on againt off again projects that never seems to get off the ground. Pity really, it would be awesome with an option to travel on a super fast passenger vessel into circular quay.

Some Ferry shots
June 11 2010

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/6876/dscf7825d.jpg

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/6578/dscf7746.jpg

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7559/dscf7745j.jpg

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/6098/dscf7641i.jpg

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/1931/dscf7620f.jpg

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7296/dscf7334c.jpg

Awwww, them photos are making me homesick :-(

There will be some changes to timetables coming.

Good news is that inner west services will be boosted especially to Balmain, Meadowbank, Cabarita & Rydalmere.
Bad News is that services to Mosman and Neutral Bay will be cut.

The SMH site is down so I cannot post the article. :(

^^ Here: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/claims-of-political-fix-as-ferries-axed-20100806-11oig.html

One ferry per hour in the off-peak to Mosman/Neutral Bay? Haha wasn't it just a few days ago I was arguing in another section about this issue in the WA forum. Becoming more and more like just a tourist service but there's still lots of buses along Military Rd so nothing to worry about for actual commuters.

Noticed last month whilst walking around the area late at night (:D - quite enjoyable actually to soak up the harbour's feel at midnight) they still have some disused wharves from ferry routes that have since been deleted.

What do they do when the ferries are out of order, do they run replacement buses? Would be interesting to be on a bus zig zagging around streets and up and down hills trying to get to each wharf!

Some of the lower north shore services travel with less than 10 % of capacity. Unless you live near a wharf, it's just as quick to travel by bus within that area.

It's all about votes ... I don't really care if they are at low capacity, PT is about providing a service not revenue raising.

They are my ferries they are cutting ... kuntz

North Shore residents continue their protests over impending cuts while Watsons Bay residents lobby for peak hour services.

From The Sydney Morning Herald (smh.com.au)

Commuters sign up to prevent off-peak ferry cuts
Andrew West
September 7, 2010
.A backlash is developing against state government plans to slash off-peak ferry services to the inner Sydney Harbour.

Almost 5000 people on the lower north shore have signed petitions against the cuts, while in the eastern suburbs, hundreds more are petitioning for the restoration of the ferry service to the city from Watsons Bay.

The chairman of North Sydney Council's Cremorne Point precinct committee, Ralph Evans, has collected the signatures of more than 4000 commuters demanding Sydney Ferries retain the services. Anna Candler, chairwoman of the Kurraba precinct committee, has collected 900 signatures.

Mr Evans said the proposed cuts in services would mean more people driving to the city, further congesting Military Road, especially between the Spit Bridge and Crows Nest.

Several hundred residents of Watsons Bay have signed a petition asking the government to introduce a peak-hour ferry service to the city during the week. A limited service operates in the middle of the day but ferry campaigners said such a service in the morning and afternoon peak periods would reduce traffic on New South Head Road.

Inner west transport groups said there would be cuts under the new timetable, despite claims that services were being diverted from the lower north shore to the Parramatta River to meet demand.

The proposed timetable, due to begin next month, would cut services from the city in the afternoon peak between 5pm and 7pm from five ferries to three, and extend the interval between services from 20 minutes to 45 minutes.

The government said many of the off-peak services to the lower north shore ran at just 10 per cent capacity.

A spokeswoman for John Robertson, the Minister for Transport, said submissions from commuters would be considered before the timetable was finalised.

Just dergulate the harbour and wharves! We need smaller, more efficient boats - like the Venetian ones that come every 5-10mins all day

I live near a ferry wharf but don't use them because they only come every 40mins when I want to travel.

Instead of using four/five classes of ferries for inner harbour services, they should work towards one class of ferry. It's silly to see so many types out on the harbour.

Agreed - it was one of the recs of the Walker equiry, wasn't it. It also found that, even amongst the First Fleet class (which it saw as the simplest type) there were two or three different types.....

Instead of using four/five classes of ferries for inner harbour services, they should work towards one class of ferry. It's silly to see so many types out on the harbour.

Disagree. Sydney Ferries play diverse roles:

-Carrying 1000s of people/hour express from Manly
-Offering a long distance river service connecting dense residential developments along the Parramatta River with employment in Parramatta, Olympic Park and CBD
-Quick transport for bus sized passenger loads within the inner city, with frequest stops and emphasis on minimum wait times

Clearly no one boat will work.

The Rivercats are good, the freshwater class boats are good - the problem is that the smallest boats carry 150 people!

The extent to which I would use your idea is ditching all the small boats and replacing them with water buses

I specifically mentioned inner harbour services. Manly need the Freshwater Class and the Rivercat is excellent for Parramatta River runs.

And there is whinging in the Parramatta Advertiser this week from one commuter who travels from Rydalmere to the city and he will be disadvantaged by changes which will see services terminating at King St Wharf instead of Circular Quay along with the axing of express services from the same wharf.

This is interesting - a hovercraft service for Sydney is on the cards between Manly and the city.

From The Manly Daily (manlydaily.com.au)
Hovercraft man reckons his plan is a going concern and ready before Xmas
Transport & Traffic16 Sep 10 @ 06:05pm by Brenton Cherry

THE man behind the bold proposal to bring a cross-harbour commuter hovercraft service to Manly says he has not walked away from the project and has set a new date of December 1 for the launch.

Sydney businessman Ian Brookfield first went public in March and said he had already invested $14 million in the project, which would initially see four hovercraft skipping across the harbour every five minutes, 21 hours a day, from November 1.

Do you reckon the hovercraft get up and running by December? Have your say below this report.

But in August Mr Brookfield’s phone had been disconnected and no money paid to Airlift Hovercraft to build the vessels, prompting speculation he had walked away.

But yesterday, Mr Brookfield contacted The Manly Daily to say his plan was still afloat but that the original launch date of November 1 had been put back a month.

Mr Brookfield said he had switched companies for the building of the hovercrafts to Melbourne-based Mariah Hovercraft, which yesterday confirmed all contracts had been signed.

“Airlift are great but they were not capable of completing the contract by Christmas,” Mr Brookfield said.

“Also, their hovercrafts only carry 24 people. The bottom line is if you can get a 34-seater for a quarter of a million less, and it’s Australian-made, what are you going to do?”

“Mariah’s hovercrafts use the same engine, but are a lot more powerful and use a bigger thrust fan so the machine is quieter, and we can carry 10 more people.”

According to Mr Brookfield, he is still in negotiations with NSW Maritime for wharf access at Circular Quay and planned to put in his own infrastructure and dedicated walkway at Manly Wharf.

But yesterday Manly Wharf centre manager Natalie Habib said a date of December 1 was news to them.

“We’ve not heard from him in over a month and he’s failed to notify us of anything,” Ms Habib said.

^^Wait! So this would be a FOURTH entrant on the Circular Quay-Manly service???

Sounds insane. But, if it works.