I disagree. The area is under review and people are discussing different scenarios. There has been no anger or outbursts like there has previously been in the waterfront thread.

If you applied what you just implied to the whole forums the only threads that would see any discussion are those projects already under construction.

......

The square with the tower was already going to be bigger than forrest place for christs sake! There is soo much open space in this plan already. F U Colin!

Samboys just trolling.

I agree there is no need for those two towers to go, it is so close to Forrest Place that another large open square would just not make sense.

Exactly Samboy, one post of several pages of what I see as constructive posts. This forum is built on speculation, and there is a whole lot of stuff I would not have learnt if there wasn't discussion like this.

Nate, Sanj, where are you guys?!

[/Samboy]

^thanks acc.

Samboy and others, you're kidding yourself if you think this review is not because of Colin's doing. So my comment still stands there.

Theres no mention of any extention of the open space in the plan but we know that's what they are going to do. The review is nothing more than a statutory requirement.

^thanks acc.

Samboy and others, you're kidding yourself if you think this review is not because of Colin's doing. So my comment still stands there..

>> Yeah of course it's the new govt's doing. No secrets there but my question is why are you assuming the 2 bldgs will be replaced by just open space.

^ Theres no mention of any extention of the open space in the plan but we know that's what they are going to do. The review is nothing more than a statutory requirement.

>>How do you know? It's a genuine question I'm not trolling. I'm interested.

Perth is not good at open spaces, so open space, even when just contained to the horseshoe 'plaza', is fucked up. Let's consider.

Forrest Place struggles as it is, and it's surrounded by offices on one side, a train station on another, and shops and cafes. It's still fucking shitty.

The Cultural Centre is improving, but despite being in the middle of Perth's entertainment district and housing two theatres, it's a no-go-zone at night for the majority, and not much of a destination for many during the day. How long have we been waiting for improvements?

The foreshore. Nuff said. Barrack Square. Useless.

So what fundamentals will the the horseshoe plaza have to work with as open space? Well, three quarters of it will be surrounded by elevated traffic. Two sides will be walls. One side will be apartments full of 50+ year olds.

We haven't even managed to get a CLOCK erected above the underground rail. During the time they've had to complete that project, 140 William, Raine Square and Century City have been built.

If that public space becomes even bigger? Well.

Fuck.

^thanks acc.

Samboy and others, you're kidding yourself if you think this review is not because of Colin's doing. So my comment still stands there.

Theres no mention of any extention of the open space in the plan but we know that's what they are going to do. The review is nothing more than a statutory requirement.

And so what?

at least the project is moving forward with Colin's impetus.
there will be buildings to the west (of the planned public space as you predict).
it will rejunevate northbridge, roe street and welling street west. over time we will see more buildings/high rise (especially wellington street west).

And so what?

at least the project is moving forward with Colin's impetus.
there will be buildings to the west (of the planned public space as you predict).
it will rejunevate northbridge, roe street and welling street west. over time we will see more buildings/high rise (especially wellington street west).

Is it? As far as I see it, it is going forward as it was before Colin - except for the possible change to the Horseshoe Bridge area - which is slightly going backwards. Remember the State Govt hasn't committed $ even though the Federal Govt has.

Labor made it clear they didnt intend to start work, or to budget for the link until around 2012-14. Am I correct?

Labor made it clear they didnt intend to start work, or to budget for the link until around 2012-14. Am I correct?

that was my understanding.

then i recall colin barnett included the link project in the infrastructure australia request, which succeeded.

Is it? As far as I see it, it is going forward as it was before Colin - except for the possible change to the Horseshoe Bridge area - which is slightly going backwards.

here is some free advice...

never set your perth expectations high, because you'll be disappointed if you do.

here is some free advice...

never set your perth expectations high, because you'll be disappointed if you do.

Swan = Samboy? ;)

Swan, it's not having high expectations to hope for competency. I think you might be the one who might need to recalibrate in that respect. ;)

Swan, it's not having high expectations to hope for competency. I think you might be the one who might need to recalibrate in that respect. ;)

so you are one of these people that wants perth to be sydney/melbourne/new york overnight.

well anyway, it takes time my friend...time....

northbridge link is just the start and perth will always compromise infrastructure projects because that is well...perth.

the key is to move forward with northbridge link and use that as a basis for the next major project. bit by bit perth will change over a generation.

the worst thing is inaction and perth stands still with no major projects as has happened over the past 15 years.

moral of story - so what if there is going to be some public space, lets just get the northbridge link moving for the wider benefits of perth.

EDIT: and what is incompetent about the current/proposed plan?

No, I'm really not one of those people. I'm not sure what gave you that impression.

If the worst thing is inaction, sitting back and going 'don't expect too much, it's Perth!' is also the worst kind of attitude. There are so many attempts being made at pulling Perth up by it's bootstraps and turning it in to the city we want it to be. Thank goodness they're not setting the bar as low as you. The city is changing, steadily and positively, despite that brand of necrotic cynicism. So why does it persist as wisdom?

The incompetent part? See my last post. Why does Perth Train Station need to be insulated, on all sides, by open space? North, south, east, west, every direction must be empty? For what purpose?

I'm keen to know what they're planning for the revision though. I think the only thing I could deal with would be that area turning into a totally awesome inner city green space, rather than some bullshit throwback paved plaza. The city needs more inner-city lawn-sitting sandwichoriums.

i'm waiting on tha revised plans first...

i'm waiting on tha revised plans first...

ding ding ding ding!

ladies and gentlemen we have a winner

I think the only thing I could deal with would be that area turning into a totally awesome inner city green space, rather than some bullshit throwback paved plaza.
Agreed. The plaza in the renders looked good, but in the absence of the landmark tower, a green space would be cool. Actually, even if they went ahead with the tower, surrounding it with green space could be quite interesting.

Either way, creating another Forrest Place less than 200m from the original would be bizarre...

ding ding ding ding!

ladies and gentlemen we have a winner

Exactly. I would be waiting at least until the middle of next year, there is a good chance that the state/fed govt will "re-evaluate" spending all this coin.

DR - this project will make no difference to the quality of anyones lifestyle in Perth. Also, Forrest Place is very vibrant these days, I saw two shufflers and and emo having a fight just yesterday.

^^Youtube upload or stfu.

What would we fill the spaces with, if we could? What kinds of stuff would you like to see going on in open public spaces?

I like the idea of interactive art, but you can't just leave cool shit lying around to beautify our city and entertain its people, because within 24 hours its gonna be trashed. If we had a 24 hour culture with bustle right through the night then that's less likely to happen, but we don't :( we have (imaginary) tumbleweeds and eerie silence after dark. With a little random shouting to jazz it up.

I'm really hoping more apartments that 18-30 year olds can afford to rent or buy will start to change this. Increased demand for urban activities etc. Hey lol this is ridiculous, but you know the Silent Hill movie? Where the sirens ring and all the townspeople rush off home? It's like Perth after 6pm. Kinda.

Anyways what would you guys like to see happening on the streets if defacement and destruction weren't an issue? And could we have a culture of doing, rather than saying "we should do this but we can't really be fucked, and it'll be lame compared to what they do in Melbourne etc anyways"

I'm sorry to have to spam this Thread but OMG Jez!! Hi! :hug: How are you? (maybe reply in spam).

What would we fill the spaces with, if we could? What kinds of stuff would you like to see going on in open public spaces?

I like the idea of interactive art, but you can't just leave cool shit lying around to beautify our city and entertain its people, because within 24 hours its gonna be trashed. If we had a 24 hour culture with bustle right through the night then that's less likely to happen, but we don't :( we have (imaginary) tumbleweeds and eerie silence after dark. With a little random shouting to jazz it up.

I'm really hoping more apartments that 18-30 year olds can afford to rent or buy will start to change this. Increased demand for urban activities etc. Hey lol this is ridiculous, but you know the Silent Hill movie? Where the sirens ring and all the townspeople rush off home? It's like Perth after 6pm. Kinda.

Anyways what would you guys like to see happening on the streets if defacement and destruction weren't an issue? And could we have a culture of doing, rather than saying "we should do this but we can't really be fucked, and it'll be lame compared to what they do in Melbourne etc anyways"

yeah im hoping that this as well as hopefully extended trading hours (yes im aware not a lot of places will actually open late) will have a bit of an effect. again it will be interesting to see if ppl are willing to live in studios in perth because i would love to see more of them built. the city slowly is getting better though, now uve got ppl who actually go into the CBD for the small bars which can only be a good thing. next we need more good quality food places to help keep ppl in the city as well.

Ok, in regards to the interactive art aspect of it.

Would we consider elements of the Piazza to be a kind of art? I mean, so many of us were saying the seats would get kicked in and defaced/damaged and the same applies to the LED Screen and the arch. But yet they're all still intact and ok.

I think sometimes it's a case of always assuming deros will come along and destroy something good but the Piazza is a good example of how the general public is capable of interacting with an environment properly.

Ok, in regards to the interactive art aspect of it.

Would we consider elements of the Piazza to be a kind of art? I mean, so many of us were saying the seats would get kicked in and defaced/damaged and the same applies to the LED Screen and the arch. But yet they're all still intact and ok.

I think sometimes it's a case of always assuming deros will come along and destroy something good but the Piazza is a good example of how the general public is capable of interacting with an environment properly.

That's true, but theres a lot more street traffic around there to deter. I had in mind the open space of the cultural centre and the bits around the railway station that DR was talking about.

Hmmm, maybe we could incorporate destruction into the art! Like the more you keep hitting it, the more stuff happens! Like Mickey's broom from Fantasia, oh this is ridiculous but I'm loving the look on the vandal's face in my head right now.

I don't believe that possible destruction is any reason not to create. You just create again, or come up with ways to make your art more durable. Also destruction may add to the beauty of a piece, like death makes life more special because it's fleeting. You can see something beautiful that is destroyed before many others have the chance to see it.

Plus when I used to play with my lego and create beautiful dream houses it was all very well and good to look at the end product, but the fun part was the building. It was a tug of war between getting to create again and having to destroy the one i made to use the grey base. Sometimes my sister helped and did that for me. Get me? lol

That's true, but theres a lot more street traffic around there to deter. I had in mind the open space of the cultural centre and the bits around the railway station that DR was talking about.

Yeah, different spaces but just an idea that popped into my head as a comparision.




Also destruction may add to the beauty of a piece...

samby was actually saying that the thing with pieces like the Piazza arch is that the more stuffed up it gets, the better it is, so you could be onto something.

If I may type a passage...

Having seen my share of American cities, I always felt the more horrific ones were places that had no neighborhoods within the city center. In the worst cases, the hub of these cities was nothing more than a business center that shut down at 5pm everyday, leaving the city desolate and lacking in any rhythm (contrary to Jacobs’ theory). And one block radius of bars does not a vibrant city make. The Gas Lamp district in San Diego doesn’t save it from being a ghost town. Nor the Flats in Cleveland. In my older younger days, I would’ve said this was due to the fact that those cities, well… just suck. But in my older wiser days, I’m a little more understanding. Those cities suck, because the city planners and real-estate developers never fostered the type of neighborhood living that gives a city its life.

Cough Cough!!! It's from here
http://kenwohlrob.com/2009/10/22/what-makes-a-vibrant-city/

Not fully relevant but still

Hmmm, maybe we could incorporate destruction into the art! Like the more you keep hitting it, the more stuff happens! Like Mickey's broom from Fantasia, oh this is ridiculous but I'm loving the look on the vandal's face in my head right now.

I don't believe that possible destruction is any reason not to create. You just create again, or come up with ways to make your art more durable. Also destruction may add to the beauty of a piece, like death makes life more special because it's fleeting. You can see something beautiful that is destroyed before many others have the chance to see it.

Plus when I used to play with my lego and create beautiful dream houses it was all very well and good to look at the end product, but the fun part was the building. It was a tug of war between getting to create again and having to destroy the one i made to use the grey base. Sometimes my sister helped and did that for me.

That is easily the best post on here for some time.

YOU ARE AWESOME.

Haha thanks. I haven't slept.

What would we fill the spaces with, if we could? What kinds of stuff would you like to see going on in open public spaces?

I like the idea of interactive art, but you can't just leave cool shit lying around to beautify our city and entertain its people, because within 24 hours its gonna be trashed. If we had a 24 hour culture with bustle right through the night then that's less likely to happen, but we don't :( we have (imaginary) tumbleweeds and eerie silence after dark. With a little random shouting to jazz it up.

I'm really hoping more apartments that 18-30 year olds can afford to rent or buy will start to change this. Increased demand for urban activities etc. Hey lol this is ridiculous, but you know the Silent Hill movie? Where the sirens ring and all the townspeople rush off home? It's like Perth after 6pm. Kinda.

Anyways what would you guys like to see happening on the streets if defacement and destruction weren't an issue? And could we have a culture of doing, rather than saying "we should do this but we can't really be fucked, and it'll be lame compared to what they do in Melbourne etc anyways"

18-30 :(

bl Ryan, time to move to mandurah or narrogin

awww im sorry Ryan :) its only general anyways. And psychographics are far more important

18-30 :(

Yeah that jez is a bit of a bitch eh.

Have to agree with Nate about your post re destruction. The slogan 'just do it' comes to mind.

bl Ryan, time to move to mandurah or narrogin

Have you been to Narrogin?

no, although it is on my b430 list

I have fond experiences of Narrogin...I got a blow-job there once...

Like this one?

http://www.g2gallery.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=817&g2_serialNumber=2

^^
No. That level of technology hasn't reached Narrogin yet...

I have fond experiences of Narrogin...I got a blow-job there once...

I lost my virginity to someone from Narrogin :lol:

I think his name was Bruce, can't remember though.

good ol Bruiser

I lost my virginity to someone from Narrogin :lol:

I think his name was Bruce, can't remember though.

lol.

deleted - I shouldn't add to the spam.

p66 & 72 today's West


New design panels
CATHY SAUNDERS

Mooted developments in some of Perth's highest^profile projects, such as The Link, are to be scrutinised by high-powered panels that will include -the State Government Architect.

Redevelopment agencies EPRA and the Subiaco Redevelopment Authority (SRA) have appointed design review panels to advise on The Link, the Riverside precinct and the controversial Australian Fine China project, also known as China Green.

The aim is to streamline the application process for developers but the decision on the fate of the planning applications will remain with the key agencies.

The panellists will be paid and the cost is likely to be passed on to developers through a higher development application fee.

Each design review panel will consist of a consultant architect and consultant urban designer, the State Government Architect and a representative from the relevant redevelopment authority. The panels will provide advice on architecture, urban design, heritage and landscaping.

The panels are different from the contentious development assessment panels proposed by the State Government, which would assess development applications worth more than $2 million made to local councils. They have been lambasted by the Perth City Council as potentially costly and time-consuming.

EPRA and SRA chief executive Tony Morgan said the design review panels were introduced because the State Government was making a significant investment in The Link, Riverside and Australian Fine China projects, leading to billions of dollars of private sector investment.

"These are important projects and we need to get the best outcomes for the State," Mr Morgan said. "It is another step to try to make sure we do things well and get quality outcomes, whether it is the paving on the ground, bollards, trees, or seats, or buildings."

The panels should help save time and money by enabling developers to fine tune their proposals before to submitting a formal development application to EPRA, he said.

"Developers will have to lift the bar and step up to ensure the best quality architecture, the best quality landscape and the best quality public art are being applied to the EPRA and SRA urban regeneration projects," he said.

Mr Morgan said EPRA and SRA had kept the cost of development approval assessments lower than those of local authorities hi a bid to encourage investment in the city but the fee was under review and could be raised to help offset the cost of the panels.

The decision to institute the panels was made a month ago and the first one has already sat to consider a pre-lodgement proposal by Channel 7 for redevelopment of the former Perth Entertainment Centre site in The Link project.

EPRA and the SRA are responsible for the regeneration of seven urban renewal projects in Perth — The Link, Riverside, Claisebrook Village, New North-bridge, Perth Cultural Centre, East Perth Power Station and Subi Centre.

The EPRA design review panel will review proposals in The Link and Riverside project areas and the SRA panel will oversee the Australian Fine China project.


p72 today's West


Mixed progress for revitalising projects across inner-city Perth
CATHY SAUNDERS

The revitalisation of the precincts known as The Link, Riverside and the Australian Fine China project is proceeding at various rates of speed.

THE LINK
The Link is a 13.5ha project expected to attract $2 billion in investment. There will be 1650 new dwellings and an estimated population of 3060 plus 13,500 new workers. Commercial and retail space will be 244,000sqm. The project is well under way. The scheme amendment to enable The Link was approved by the Planning Minister this year. The first two lots were released to the market this month. Planning is progressing for the sinking of the rail line and Wellington Street bus station with the PTA starting forward works early next year.

AUSTRALIAN FINE CHINA PRECINCT
Australian Fine China Precinct, which is within Subi Centro, covers 4.4ha and will have 300 new dwellings with a new population of570. It is expected to attract investment totalling $330 million. Commercial space will be up to 37,000sqm with 2300 more workers.
Planning is being finalised. The scheme amendment to enable the development is with the Planning Minister for consideration and approval.

RIVERSIDE
Riverside is a 40ha urban renewal project bounded by Waterloo Crescent in the north, Plain Street in the west, Adelaide Terrace in the south and the Swan River in the east. It is a 10 to 15-year project.

The area will become a bustling, vibrant place with new entertainment, commercial, retail, civic and residential uses that take advantage of the riverfront location.

The new developments will complement the existing sporting, recreational and education facilities in the area including the WACA, Gloucester Park, Queens Gardens and Trinity College.

The Riverside master plan was released in 2004 and reviewed last year. The first works and land sales started in 2006.

The first development at Riverside by TRG Properties, in the Queens precinct, was completed this year.

The first six lots in the Queens precinct, bordered by Plain Street, Adelaide Terrace, Hay Street and the Police Headquarters site, were sold in May 2006 to TRG Properties and Frasers Property Group. Frasers is developing four sites.

watch this space on sat!

watch this space on sat!

I wish it was saturday!

DILAZ!

Typical showman...always keeping his audience in suspense...

was at a function today.

barnett said plans being released saturday

new public sq to be centre of city with comparable dimensions to fed sq (but in an irreg shape - assuming in horeshoe bridge)

sounds ok. will wait for more detail.

sounds alright

Thans for the heads up.

Should be interesting, and i will reserve any comment until saturday.

Prepare for disappointment!

Prepare for disappointment!

given the large number of forum members who dislike Barnett and the even larger number that love the Labour Party, any proposal from Barnett is going to get trashed in this thread.

Even if Barnett was to build a giant 300 metre penis in the centre of the square.

I, for one, will be happy that progress is being made and construction will soon commence.

What jackso said.

Yeah - I will wait. Just hope it isn't another big paved square with nothing in it. And hope the surrounding buildings have been allowed to be bigger to compensate for the loss of the tower.

It should be pretty interesting to see what they've done.
Im actually excited, but probably shouldnt be overly excited.

tomorow (Y)

given the large number of forum members who dislike Barnett and the even larger number that love the Labour Party, any proposal from Barnett is going to get trashed in this thread.

Even if Barnett was to build a giant 300 metre penis in the centre of the square.

I, for one, will be happy that progress is being made and construction will soon commence.

just like you (correctly) pointed out some ppl might jump the gun re not liking the plan, are u not jumping the gun by declaring your support for his plan? after all u havent seen it. isnt blindly supporting something out of bias as bad as blindly disliking something out of bias?

swan's just happy that something is (or may be) starting, not really supporting the plan :)

I'm sort of in the same boat.

And I won't jump the gun by assuming that something is being done (not you samboy - I do not the "may be" qualifier) until I see money allocated to the NBL in a Budget. Otherwise it is gathering dust on a shelf (like all the other plans and governments).

swan's just happy that something is (or may be) starting, not really supporting the plan :)

I'm sort of in the same boat.

but is progress actually being made and is it any good?

as u know im one of the few who defend barnett here on occasion but as far as we know it is just another plan and we've seen a fair few plans for this over the last 100 years. of course there seems to be genuine impetus to get this done this time but ill be reserving any praise/criticism til i see the plan.

anyway im also glad things seem to be happening i just thought saying "you labor hacks will hate anything he does" while supporting the plan without seeing it seemed a touch hypocritical.

maybe im reading too much into it, ive been up since 5

i think you're reading too much into it sanj. he's just saying he's happy something's happening (not being biased towards unreleased plans). I agree not all progress is good but that's another story, nothing really anything to do with being partial towards any party.
you're working too hard, get some sleep.

fair enough, i think ure right. apologies swan.

I'm happy something is progressing, no doubt there, but like even with Labor I'll reserve judgement to I actually see some concrete plans.

Actually, I take it back. I'd be happy with just one stretch of grass just so long it buries that fucking hideous train line.

^^

exactly. i am just so sick of waiting and waiting about the talk of sinking it. i just want it sunk

I'll wait and see. :)

Me too ^^
As long as the line is sunk and the bus station is hidden from the street... With the rest of the plans, I also want to wait to see what happens with the rest to unravel.

Oh god that bus station. As a former every day user of the bus station I can't wait to see that disgusting hideous thing gone

And Bea has the lowdown in tomorrow's West, troops.

And Bea has the lowdown in tomorrow's West, troops.

can we have the early edition :D

And Bea has the lowdown in tomorrow's West, troops.

id like to have the lowdown on bea myself. woof.

id like to have the lowdown on bea myself. woof.

SANJ! For all you know, Bea might read this!

And her bf could totally take you in a fight.

haha if she reads this forum she'll know that im a silly bastard so im guessing she wont take it to heart.


p.s - i reckon i could take him

so who wants to go out and get the first edition of the west tonight?

crap now I have to buy the west 2moro. or have breky somehwere

SANJ! For all you know, Bea might read this!

And her bf could totally take you in a fight.

I think Miensie could beat Sanj in a fight.

so who wants to go out and get the first edition of the west tonight?

I might have to... If I do I'll post it.

Yeah I will try, but I'm not the best scanner.

New plan unveiled for Perth waterfront
BEATRICE THOMAS

A man-made island connected by two bridges would be built near the Perth Convention Exhibition Centre, Riverside Drive would be redirected around a new inlet and the Esplanade train station will get a nearby ferry terminal under city redevelopment plans to be unveiled at the weekend.

The West Australian understands the State Government will also announce the redesign of the eastern end of the Northbridge Link project into a public space similar in size and scope to Federation Square in Melbourne.

Under the new waterfront plans, an indigenous cultural centre will be built on the 1ha man-made island built at the southern edge of the inlet and connected with an eastern pedestrian and service vehicle bridge and a bigger western bridge for ferries to travel under.

The final plans, which come after the Government scrapped the former Labor Government's designs in April, are expected to include a new cafe-lined street parallel to The Esplanade at the foot of the rectangular-shaped inlet.

While some taller buildings will be built at the river's edge they are expected to be at most about 10-15 storeys while low-scale development will also line both William and Barrack streets. The Federal Government has allocated $236 million to sink the rail line and bus station but the Government has yet to fund its $250 million commitment to the project.

In other city developments, the City of Perth's $25 million project to make Forrest Place a "grand civic space" will begin in January. Stage one of the plans include the demolition of the pedestrian bridge from Albert Facey House and the Horseshoe Bridge with stage two including a new stage and shade structure at the northern end of Forrest Place.


It was the early edition with no pics/renders, so if anyone gets a later edition and it has more in it, please post!

thanks bart!

Not sure how big the Fed Square open space is - but by the sounds of it we could be getting more expansive open space with nothing in it. Fingers crossed there will be something interesting in it.

edit: On 2nd thought Fed Square does have a big screen, so maybe it is the transfer (like I speculated before) of elements of the Esplanade Square from the Labor Foreshore plan to the Northbridge Link.

Need more info to be able to form an opinion on it. Could go either way on that info.

Thats the big announcement? Come on!

There is nothing there!!

How about a picture or a start date?

no pics in paper.

afaik the details will be in the sunday times.

The bit in the paper is so small!
I missed it first time around, had to go back and look for it :lol:

The bit in the paper is so small!
I missed it first time around, had to go back and look for it :lol:

+1

I think Dilaz has let us down with his promise of something good on Saturday.

(Awaits brig)

Dilaz never said anything would be in Saturdays paper, so if any announcements were made today they would be in tomorrows paper.

Sunday times sunday times :banana:

watch this space on sat!
:hi: Haven't forgotten us, have you?

It's still Sat for another 9 hours and 26 minutes, I guess...

dilaz only said what he said becuase i told him that colin said at a function that plans were being released saturday

ive further learned it looks like the sunday times got the scoop so some info should come out in a few hours when perthnow update their website reflecting tomorrows edition

Maybe Dilaz was talking to me, taking into account that when the Sunday times comes out it will still be Saturday here lol.

I'm watching channel 7 news hoping it will have something :D
doubt it though.

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,,26413848-2761,00.html

Channel Seven planning move to CBD
comment Glenn Cordingley, civic reporter
November 28, 2009 07:00pm

CHANNEL 7 has submitted plans which would allow it to relocate to a part of the city earmarked for development, where it owns the closed Entertainment Centre.

The State Government confirmed the network had lodged a preliminary proposal to the East Perth Redevelopment Authority - the planning body for the Northbridge Link project.

A spokesman for Planning Minister John Day this week said: "Media production is a possible land use under the planning framework for the area.''

The entertainment centre falls inside the western boundary of the project, alongside the under-construction multimillion-dollar Perth Arena.

The development will connect the city centre to Northbridge and involves sinking the Wellington St bus station and the Fremantle rail line.

About $2 billion will be invested in construction projects by the private sector. The Federal Government has pledged $239 million.

The Satterley Property Group - on behalf of the Kerry Stokes- owned Channel 7 last month submitted an application to the Stirling City Council to rezone the station's 7ha Dianella site.

But the council said it cannot deal with the application because it relates to a planning scheme, which is yet to be gazetted.

It means that permission for any residential development there will be delayed for several months until the guidelines are ticked off by the WA Planning Commission.

A spokesman for Planning Minister John Day said progress was being made towards a city move.

"Channel 7 has submitted its pre-lodgement proposal to EPRA,'' he said.

^^
is that what will be in the sunday times?
or will there be more or another article? i wanna see some pictures or something ><

Nah - I think it is a side issue, but something I found and posted anyway.

Notging in the early edition of the Sunday Times except the 7 article. Unless I'm blind.

Oh well.

You're not blind - not in there as far as I can see unless it is buried deep in the middle.

that is still good news. having channel 7 in the inner city is good news.

Reading the first paragraph "terrace gardens, landmark building, town square" I honestly don't know whats new. All were proposed under the previous plan.

How big was "Celebration Place" as compared to this "new" Federation Square type plaza?

There was nothing in the Sunday Times :(
apart from the seven moving into the city (N)
maybe tomorow west :D

Will be interesting to see these plans. Initial thought it to wonder since Melbourne is a much larger city, with a much bigger inner city residential and employment population... then why do we need a square that is 25% bigger than Fed square?

Will be interesting to see these plans. Initial thought it to wonder since Melbourne is a much larger city, with a much bigger inner city residential and employment population... then why do we need a square that is 25% bigger than Fed square?
Because we like putting the cart before the horse?

If you build it, they will come. People will be falling over each other to live in the city centre once we have a nice public square there.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/6528272/government-releases-final-northbridge-link-plan/

(which is almost identical to the media release): http://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/Pages/default.aspx?ItemId=132849&

Government releases final Northbridge Link plan
The West Australian November 29, 2009, 11:13 am

http://l.yimg.com/fv/xp/wan/20091129/16/2283054140.jpg
Supplied / Stuart Nixon ©

State Government plans for a project linking Northbridge to the city include terraced gardens, a landmark building, dedicated cycle paths and a town square on land reclaimed by the sinking of the railway line.

Premier Colin Barnett and Planning Minister John Day unveiled the final plans for The Link project today.

Mr Barnett said the area around the Horseshoe Bridge and above the railway would become an 11,000sqm (1.1 hectare) town square that would add vibrancy and attractiveness to the city.

The area around the town square would include shops, cafes, restaurants and accommodation.

"In conjunction with our waterfront development and the transformation of the Perth Cultural Centre, The Link will revitalise and modernise Perth," the Premier said.

"The new town square will be about twice the size of Forrest Place, 25 per cent bigger than Federation Square in Melbourne and will be an important part of the Liberal-National Government's overall Link project.

"The town square will be the closest point between the Northbridge entertainment district and the Perth city centre and will be a key element in connecting Perth and Northbridge for the first time in 100 years.

"For major events, the square will have capacity for between 6000 and 8000 people.

"The town square will be a destination for people to dine outside, for families to gather together and provides a central meeting place right in the heart of the city - for the next 100 years as our city continues to grow.

"This area of The Link project will play a central role in integrating Perth's entertainment, cultural, shopping, employment and public transport areas."

The total project area comprises 13.5ha bounded by Mitchell Freeway, Roe and Wellington streets and the Horseshoe Bridge.

The Link project will ultimately create more than 1650 dwellings for more than 3000 people and 244,000sqm of commercial space for about 13,350 workers.

Mr Day said the town square would complement the proposed underground bus station and Perth railway station and accommodate the dive structures for the Fremantle rail line.

"The plans will see terraced garden areas cover the rail dive structure with grassed embankments and landscaped areas to provide places for people to relax and enjoy," Mr Day said.

"The town square will also include a three-four storey feature building which will add to the commercial and retail options for the area.

"This central building is intended to accommodate a mix of community-related services with a distinctly WA focus.

"In future, it will be home to a tourism and visitor centre or a hub for design and technology. The building will help energise the area at night and include ground floor shops and entertainment options for people moving between Northbridge and the city centre.

"The detailed design for the space will be completed next year, however the town square and central building may incorporate WA landscape elements, as well as significant public art and water and lighting features, to create one of the most significant spaces in Perth."

As well as new commercial and residential opportunities, almost one-third of the entire area will be dedicated to public space such as wide boulevards, alfresco areas, shade and public art.

The first land in the project was released to the market this month and forward works for the undergrounding of the rail line will commence in early 2010.

The project involves sinking the Fremantle rail line from Perth station to Lake Street, undergrounding the Wellington Street Bus Station and creating several important connection points between the city centre and Northbridge.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/29/2756580.htm

Northbridge Link plans revealed
Posted 60 minutes ago
Updated 51 minutes ago

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200911/r478186_2421719.jpg
The Northbridge Link project.

The State Government has revealed its final plans for the Northbridge Link.

The government will sink the rail line and bus station, and redevelop the 13.5 hectare site, to include a town square 25 per cent bigger than Melbourne's Federation Square.

It will match the Federal Government's contribution of nearly $250 million towards the project.

The Planning Minister John Day says the development will make the area much more vibrant.

"It's going to completely revitalise Perth, provide a lot more activity, a lot more amenity and a lot more opportunities for residents of Perth and Western Australia and visitors to Western Australia for entertainment activities, for restaurants, cafes and a whole range of other activities," he said.

The project will also include terraced gardens, dedicated cycle paths and a landmark building.

The Premier Colin Barnett says the town square will be the key element in connecting Perth and Northbridge for the first time in 100 years.

The project will eventually create more than 1650 dwellings for more than 3000 people and provide office space for more than 13,000 workers.

Forward works to sink the rail line will begin early next year.



http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,26416424-5018377,00.html

1ha town square to be build on land when Perth rail goes underground
November 29, 2009 12:00pm

http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,7228321,00.jpg
TWICE THE SIZE OF FORREST PLACE: Colin Barnett has proudly unveiled final plans for The Link. Pic/Supplied

A VIBRANT town square with terraced gardens, cafes and bike paths will transform the 1ha of Perth land left after Perth's rail line is sunk.

WA Premier Colin Barnett unveiled his government's final plans for The Link, which is intended to reunite Perth and Northbridge when the rail line goes underground.

What do you think Perth? Is The Link a massive hit or a mega fail? Share you thoughts in the comments box below.


Mr Barnett said the area around the Horseshoe Bridge and above the railway will become an 1.1 hectare town square that will add vibrancy and attractiveness to the city.

The area around the town square will house shops, cafes, restaurants and accommodation.

“In conjunction with our waterfront development and the transformation of the Perth Cultural Centre, The Link will revitalise and modernise Perth,” the Premier said.

“The new town square will be about twice the size of Forrest Place, 25 per cent bigger than Federation Square in Melbourne and will be an important part of the Liberal-National Government’s overall Link project.

“The town square will be the closest point between the Northbridge entertainment district and the Perth city centre and will be a key element in connecting Perth and Northbridge for the first time in 100 years.

“For major events, the square will have capacity for between 6000 and 8000 people.

“The town square will be a destination for people to dine outside, for families to gather together and provides a central meeting place right in the heart of the city - for the next 100 years as our city continues to grow.

“This area of The Link project will play a central role in integrating Perth’s entertainment, cultural, shopping, employment and public transport areas.”

The total project area comprises 13.5ha bounded by Mitchell Freeway, Roe and Wellington streets and the Horseshoe Bridge.

The Link project will ultimately create more than 1,650 dwellings for more than 3,000 people and 244,000sqm of commercial space for about 13,350 workers.

Mr Day said the town square would complement the proposed underground bus station and Perth railway station and accommodate the dive structures for the Fremantle rail line.

“The plans will see terraced garden areas cover the rail dive structure with grassed embankments and landscaped areas to provide places for people to relax and enjoy,” Mr Day said.

“The town square will also include a three-four storey feature building which will add to the commercial and retail options for the area.

“This central building is intended to accommodate a mix of community-related services with a distinctly Western Australian focus. In future, it will be home to a tourism and visitor centre or a hub for design and technology. The building will help energise the area at night and include ground floor shops and entertainment options for people moving between Northbridge and the city centre.

“The detailed design for the space will be completed next year, however the town square and central building may incorporate WA landscape elements, as well as significant public art and water and lighting features, to create one of the most significant spaces in Perth.”

As well as new commercial and residential opportunities, almost one-third of the entire area will be dedicated to public space such as wide boulevards, alfresco areas, shade and public art.

The first land in the project was released to the market this month and forward works for the undergrounding of the rail line will commence in early 2010.

The project involves sinking the Fremantle rail line from Perth station to Lake Street, undergrounding the Wellington Street Bus Station and creating several important connection points between the city centre and Northbridge.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/bigger-than-federation-square-20091129-jyoi.html

Bigger than Federation Square
ALEISHA PREEDY
November 29, 2009 - 2:09PM
A $500 million plan to sink Perth's central train station and build a huge town square has been unveiled by the West Australian government.

WA Premier Colin Barnett on Sunday announced the final plan for the Northbridge Link, with a 13.5ha site to be redeveloped to include a town square 25 per cent bigger than Melbourne's Federation Square.

Work is set to begin next year and take four years to complete.

Mr Barnett said the area around the Horseshoe Bridge and the sunken rail line would be transformed into a 1.1 hectare town square to include public gardens, retail, business and residential areas.

The project is being jointly funded with about $250 million from the Commonwealth Government and the WA government and the City of Perth making up the balance.

Mr Barnett said once completed, he expected public sector investment of about $2 billion.

He projected the project would create more than 1,650 residential dwellings and 244,000sqm of commercial space.

Mr Barnett said the Northbridge Link, aimed at finally joining the entertainment precinct with Perth, would add vibrancy and attractiveness to the city.

"This will prove to be a legacy of this generation to future generations," Mr Barnett said.

"In a hundred years time the area we're standing on now, which is largely a wasteland, will be the centre of a modern Perth in the 22nd Century."

Siteworks are expected to start early in 2010.

AAP

I don't mind this. Its future proofing. As long as they don't try to do the same thing at the waterfront.

Early 2010 is nice! :)

Bit disappointed with only 1650 dwellings. Thought there would have been more.

When they say early 2010 - I think they could be referring to the small building between Perth Arena and the PEC site. Which we knew about a long time ago anyway. I will wait to see the $ listed in the Budget before I believe that the railway and busport sinking are underway.

hopefully the busport will get the flick also?

Nup early 2010 is preliminary works related to sinking the railway.

I don't think there are any publicly built buildings around Perth Arena Bart. All private I thought..

Not publicly built, but still part of the NBL. I am referring to the two buildings out to tender at the moment. The article just says siteworks in early 2010. And I would be surprised if the siteworks includes anything besides those two buildings (and obviously Perth Arena).

edit: most of those articles do say forewardworks for the railway. Hmmm - I assume that means they intend on using the Fed $ before committing the State $ themselves. Not sure what sort of forward works they can do early next year. Maybe a little bit of clearing?

The good thing is neither party will be able to legitimately say they solely did this project.

hopefully the busport will get the flick also?

The article says the bus port is going underground - which we knew about months ago.

A forumer who works for an engineering consultancy company confirmed that it is site works directly related to the sinking of the railway about 2 weeks ago.

As for the two buildings directly east of Perth Arena, formal expressions of interest close mid 2010, with detailed proposals being submitted there after. So I wouldn't expect to see any construction work till early 2011, besides the arena forecourt.

so whens the PEC coming down? :D
I wanna go cheer when it comes down :lol:

But from the pictures, mostly the one on perthnow
it looks like it'll very nice, I still wanna see some good renderings.
The public square is going to be massive if its bigger the fed.
But if it has art work, fountains and something other then couple of trees and lots of boring red paving then it will be very good.

im excited :D
something new to watch and take picture of,
I'll be going to the rooftop carpark on roe street alot in the coming years :lol:

Still lots to be done before we see some real action. But from the way things sound, its possible that we may see work on the PEC site before work on the two to the west, considering Stokes gas already lodged a preliminary expression...

Not sure Jarkti on PEC. I don't think any of the pics shown in those articles I posted are anything new. And we haven't seen any plans of the new public square area either. Don't know if they intend on releasing any soon - or whether what they've said is just stating what they want before the planning is complete.

Jackso - ok these would be the two posts relevant (by the looks):

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=45656999&postcount=449
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=45651165&postcount=443

Not sure what the forward works involves though. Probably relatively minor early on. And whether forward works means actually doing anything on the ground or whether that just involves realigning services (like water and sewer) approvals. I wouldn't be surprised if the PEC is a little after the two lots between it and PA, but I guess that depends on how much planning, etc. of their site that they have done.

Wouldnt suprise me either but at this stage PEC is a way ahead of the other two considering the two lots on the market aren't even accepting formal expressions of interest till early next year.

Oh and the posts I was referring to are in the Perth Arena thread, about 2 weeks ago I think.

Wouldnt suprise me either but at this stage PEC is a way ahead of the other two considering the two lots on the market aren't even accepting formal expressions of interest till early next year.

Yeah agreed.

Ah ok - you'd be referring to this then:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=46344143&postcount=831
---------
It is funny seeing some of the usual whingeing on the PerthNow article.

It would be nice if Kerry Stokes managed to find somwhete in The Link to house his giant art collection. Considering the major cultural drawcard of the waterfront is to be an indigenous cultural centre, it would be great to have Stokes' collection as a drawcard for The Link.

Ch10 had a segment on the plans. They had some renders of the square along with old superceded drawings complete with the horseshoe tower. It laso showed Lisa Scaffidi and Colin Barnett looking at a scaled model of the NBL - not sure if that was new or old footage though.

Give me a mini time square and I'll be happy with that amount of public space.

Lets see what they do with it but if it just becomes a bigger forrest place then it will be a wasted opportunity.

I hope the West has some pics tomorrow and they go against their usual practice of printing the wrong renders.

The scale model collin barnet was showing was a new scale model, because the horseshoe bridge building wasnt in it and the four story building was inbetween it like they said in the articles, it was at the bridge where you walking over the rail lines now at William street.

it looked very nice, there should be renders in tomorows west so bart, paper, tomorow, go go go :)

Don't know if you can get the mid-week paper earlier jarkti. :lol:

The Channel 7 news story avoided showing all the old renders and info. And they mentioned that the $ will be in next year's Budget.

Yeah - I saw the horseshoe tower (4 story) replacement on the model. Appeared to be a long one running north-south. I think it is the one showed in the West online article. i.e.:
http://l.yimg.com/ea/img/-/091129/291109genlink3-15h4f9i.jpg
(from: http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/6528272/government-releases-final-northbridge-link-plan/)

Obviously they changed the pic from the generic NBL from the north pic they had earlier (see previous page).

And the ABC site pic looks to be of that same building from a different angle:
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200911/r478186_2421719.jpg
(from http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/29/2756580.htm)

edit:
it looks like PerthNow changed the pic to one of the square too. They must have been all in such a rush to be the first with the sory they went with generic NBL photos. This is the one they have up now (Raine Square visible in the left background of the render):

http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,7228582,00.jpg
from: http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,26416424-5018377,00.html

I'm not disappointed, this is a good start. The rest will shape itself. What we really need now more than anything is PEOPLE.

Agreed, and I'm not sure 3000 residents cut it, though I have no way to put the number into any meaningful context.

The don't all have to live on the link. I meant people in general in the city.

Yep, I know what your getting at and its happening at a steady pace, but I'm just wondering in the link should house more than 1650 dwellings. As I said, I don't have a clue if that many dwellings is high, low or average for that size area.

Things are slowly changing for the better. Just need to keep the fight up against the people that want the CBD to be a country town.

Yep, I know what your getting at and its happening at a steady pace, but I'm just wondering in the link should house more than 1650 dwellings. As I said, I don't have a clue if that many dwellings is high, low or average for that size area.
According to the article (and confirmed by rough measurements I've made using Google Earth), the site is 13.5 hectares (0.135 square kilometres). Given the figures of 1650 dwellings and 3000 residents, that means densities of 12222 dwellings/sqkm, and 22222 persons/sqkm.

I'll see if I can find some density figures for other parts of Perth for comparative purposes. In the meantime, you could have a look at the Wikipedia entries for any cities you've visited, most of which include a density figure in persons/sqkm. Of course, it's a bit of a stretch to compare the figure for an entire city/metro area to that of a very small fragment of another, but it's a starting point.

http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,7228582,00.jpg

looks a lot like federation square, hope they don't go for a complete copy.

tha one thing tha previous design had was tha glass overhang which doubles as a shade structure in tha blaring summer heat... my fear is that trees and open space ain't gonna create substantial shaded areas that will keep people loitering in tha area...

The public square will be great if modelled on federation square. Still, I can't help but feel disappointed that Perth has yet again gone for tried and tested rather than something new as originally proposed.

Although the government are yet to give funding, they've invested too much political captial in to the whole project to turn around now. It's a goer. 100 years of talking about sinking the rail and linking the city to northbridge ends.

tha one thing tha previous design had was tha glass overhang which doubles as a shade structure in tha blaring summer heat... my fear is that trees and open space ain't gonna create substantial shaded areas that will keep people loitering in tha area...

Good point - but at least the howling sea breeze ought to be blocked to a degree. I guess there should be shade (from trees and the buildings) in parts of the square at any time during the day. Hopefully some water features, etc. to cool things down.

Dilaz - I guess it depends on how much emphasis Barnett puts on the surplus guarantee. This might push the timing out a bit. Not sure if the Fed $ is a 1 for 1 thing or fully available straight away. I agree that it is hard to not see it going ahead - esp since part of it (Perth Arena) has been going for a couple of years already and Channel 7 have their site that will go ahead. Granted the sinking of the railway and busport is the key. The other buildings could happen down the track some time.

It doesnt really look anything like Federation Square, what with it's apparent focus on 'grass and trees', rather than Fed Square's 'awesome architecture'.

we know too little to come to that conclusion.

one thing to note in tha render is that green glass structure... it appears to have a void underneath, which looks thru to water features etc... this could be interesting... i imagine if this structure does infact have a void connecting thru all sides, then a lit up structure could be quite intesting at night...

I can't believe they're planting grass there. Watch out for a migration of the homeless from Forrest Place to this little spot.

And why do we even need a large public square when Forrest Place is 100m away?

The lack of any roads, buildings, and being near the railway station means that section will be a no-go zone at night.

We simply needed straight-through roads from the CBD to Northbridge, with street level activation.

one thing to note in tha render is that green glass structure... it appears to have a void underneath, which looks thru to water features etc... this could be interesting... i imagine if this structure does infact have a void connecting thru all sides, then a lit up structure could be quite intesting at night...

Although that building is probably an artist's impression of what might go there. It will probably just have a building footprint and recommended height range, etc. like all the other NBL buildings (obviously besides PA)

I agree that grass is a bad idea, and that has been proved in many public spaces. Its too hard to keep alive and well maintained with so many people trampling over it day in-day out.

And it might be a little to, um... comfortable.

According to the article (and confirmed by rough measurements I've made using Google Earth), the site is 13.5 hectares (0.135 square kilometres). Given the figures of 1650 dwellings and 3000 residents, that means densities of 12222 dwellings/sqkm, and 22222 persons/sqkm.

I'll see if I can find some density figures for other parts of Perth for comparative purposes. In the meantime, you could have a look at the Wikipedia entries for any cities you've visited, most of which include a density figure in persons/sqkm. Of course, it's a bit of a stretch to compare the figure for an entire city/metro area to that of a very small fragment of another, but it's a starting point.

Well the City of Subiaco (which i would imagine is one of the densest regions in perth) has 2340/km² and the Town of Vincent has 2928/km² according to Wiki... and currently only 673 people live in Northbridge... while 6300 live in Perth, so there would be a rather large increase in the number of people living in the area...

Does anyone know if the West weekday editions can be bought the night before?

Token grass is a requirement in Perth. It gives the feel that families can have a picnic. I wouldn't worry too much about the details and focus on the big picture.

^^
Exactly. Grass can always be paved over at a later date...

Does anyone know if the West weekday editions can be bought the night before?

Yep, they do early editions for every day. It might be a bit later than Saturdays and Sundays though.

haha. and tha comfort in knowing kids can scooter on tha grass..

And I suspect that those natives paperbark (malleluca?) drawn in the render won't be planted in there either.

I think the render people would probably have a laugh if they read the reactions on here about specific elements. I bet $100 they just pick whatever stencil is at easy reach to create this things and rarely a representation of what will actually happen

I think the render people would probably have a laugh if they read the reactions on here about specific elements. I bet $100 they just pick whatever stencil is at easy reach to create this things and rarely a representation of what will actually happen

maybe so... but if tha brief asks for a structure with 360 access on ground level... it may be what we're gonna get?

but yeh i suppose you can't read into it until further details...

i have to say, it's not what i expected... certainly no wow factor atm.

: |

Yeah - "that corner looks a bit blank - can you put in some tree and grass"

It will be very interesting to see what the actual buildings turn out like. I must say that I am disappointed at the fact that there is, in true Perth fashion, a lot of grass filled space. On the other hand, it is great to know with certainty that, after 100 years of procrastination, something is finally going to happen.

A higher population density would have been great. I hope that the cafes and restaurants here are open until decent times, and don't close early like so many of the others in Perth. It was always going be a rather generic, gentrified development, unfortunately I think there is too much focus on the 'family friendly' aspect.

Overall, it contains things I like and things that I don't like. Let's see how things progress. It will be interesting to see how this effects developments in the traditional CBD, if there will be more of an acceptance of height and greater density there given that we have this big public space here.

i have to say, it's not what i expected... certainly no wow factor atm.


Dont hold your breath.

ummm... i am pretty sure everyone on here was jizzing over the Northbridge piazza just a couple of weeks ago, and isn't half of that grass... and this is going to be a site which is going to have sunlight for quiet a few decades considering the Theatre has just been built on the north side of Roe St... so it is a good site, for people to be able to laze about in the sun on some grass.

but i do hope there is a big screen there somewhere, probably on the corner closest to Raine Square, which would make the hill going up over the rai-line dive structure, quiet useful when there are large crowds...

It will be very interesting to see what the actual buildings turn out like. I must say that I am disappointed at the fact that there is, in true Perth fashion, a lot of grass filled space. On the other hand, it is great to know with certainty that, after 100 years of procrastination, something is finally going to happen.

A higher population density would have been great. I hope that the cafes and restaurants here are open until decent times, and don't close early like so many of the others in Perth. It was always going be a rather generic, gentrified development, unfortunately I think there is too much focus on the 'family friendly' aspect.

Overall, it contains things I like and things that I don't like. Let's see how things progress. It will be interesting to see how this effects developments in the traditional CBD, if there will be more of an acceptance of height and greater density there given that we have this big public space here.

"Family friendly" is an easy term to market to the electorate. It gives a warm and fuzzy feeling but in reality means something like "safe, middle of the road and unimaginative".

That said, I will wait to see the general plans for the "square" area. Like others have said, it'll be nice to get this going. It will take a good decade to get the feeling on whether it is going to be a popular area or if it turns into another East Perth redevelopment. Being in the city centre, near a train station and having Perth Arena as part of it will hopefully give it a decent chance.

ummm... i am pretty sure everyone on here was jizzing over the Northbridge piazza just a couple of weeks ago, and isn't half of that grass... and this is going to be a site which is going to have sunlight for quiet a few decades considering the Theatre has just been built on the north side of Roe St... so it is a good site, for people to be able to laze about in the sun on some grass.

but i do hope there is a big screen there somewhere, probably on the corner closest to Raine Square, which would make the hill going up over the rai-line dive structure, quiet useful when there are large crowds...

I don't think people on here have been that excited over the Northbridge Piazza. It was more of "it's a nice addition to the area, oh look there is a bear" reaction. I agree that it would be nice to have a big screen in there - which I assume is the plan since they keep comparing it to Fed Square.

NB Plaza was a different story. Small scale, and a great addition to the area. The Link is a major project.

I don't get what the media wankfest over 'bigger than fed square' is either. It's about the optimal use of space. The fact that it's bigger than fed square is completely irrelevant.

as you said it's a media wankfest, they need headlines. no big deal

NB Plaza was a different story. Small scale, and a great addition to the area. The Link is a major project.

I don't get what the media wankfest over 'bigger than fed square' is either. It's about the optimal use of space. The fact that it's bigger than fed square is completely irrelevant.

Again a pollie playing "mine is bigger than yours" to try and get people (and the media) behind the project because it is better than those evil eastern staters. We'll show them (shakes fist).

as you said it's a media wankfest, they need headlines. no big deal

Yeah you're right. I shouldn't have said "I don't get" because of course I get it. It's just that, well, arrrrgh!

Perth's Cutting Edge 21st Century Urban Greenspace - 5 times bigger than Federation Square!

Gentlemen, I have just solved our little foreshore problem.

I don't get what the media wankfest over 'bigger than fed square' is either. It's about the optimal use of space. The fact that it's bigger than fed square is completely irrelevant.

West Australians just love beating 'the Vics'. As someone said earlier, there is no need for a larger space when Perths population is only a third of Melbournes.

As for the grass docker, this precinct will have a totally different vibe to the NB Piazza. Grass is inappropriate in my opinion. Samboy, we know nothing comes out as a carbon copy of the renders, but I'm betting a grassed area was an 'element' that was to be included in these designs.

I'm assuming the advertising tower near the bridge will be coming down? It would be great if we could develop a real hub of activity there like a mini Times Square or Torontos Yonge Square. This is why the grass is so disappointing.

West Australians just love beating 'the Vics'. As someone said earlier, there is no need for a larger space when Perths population is only a third of Melbournes.

As for the grass docker, this precinct will have a totally different vibe to the NB Piazza. Grass is inappropriate in my opinion. Samboy, we know nothing comes out as a carbon copy of the renders, but I'm betting a grassed area was an 'element' that was to be included in these designs.

I'm assuming the advertising tower near the bridge will be coming down? It would be great if we could develop a real hub of activity there like a mini Times Square or Torontos Yonge Square. This is why the grass is so disappointing.

perth is 1.3m or melb is 4.8m?

As someone said earlier, there is no need for a larger space when Perths population is only 42.105% of Melbournes.

Now back to relevant discussion.

perth is 1.3m or melb is 4.8m?

Perth is 1.6mil and Melbourne is just over 4 million. So you were about a million off :)

These are all the pics we have so far, compiled, including a new one on thewest.com.au. I wonder how many pictures have been released to the media?.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/2689/nblinkpic2.jpg (http://img692.imageshack.us/i/nblinkpic2.jpg/)

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4210/nblinkpic.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/i/nblinkpic.jpg/)

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/8546/nblinkpic3.jpg (http://img509.imageshack.us/i/nblinkpic3.jpg/)

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9479/nblinkpic5.jpg (http://img192.imageshack.us/i/nblinkpic5.jpg/)

To me, this is the kind of development that we should have at Scarborough Beach.

To me, this is the kind of development that we should have at Scarborough Beach.

Definitely! Would be cool if they allowed highrise office and apartment development at Scarborough, and turn the that whole strip at ground level into something like the renders above. Might happen, but the population needs to rise somemore and the demand needs to increase for aprtments in the suburbs that aren't a part of that inner circle of Vic Park, South Perth, Crawley etc.

It's good to get a visual on the potential height of the towers there. It's a decent height. Nice little cluster with 140/raine/etc. Give me a nice treasury tower and I'll be happy for a while. :D

would still really prefer there be the original tallest 'landmark' tower there instead of this fed square try hard thing.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/crave1980/pic333.jpg
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,26416424-5018377,00.html

i've said it before and i'll say it again.
lets be thankful that it will finally happen - something.

i am very confident in the next 20 - 50 years, the surrounding areas will have taller office and residential blocks.

this is just a kickstart that is needed and has been talked about for year and years.

its called progress and evolution for perth.

i've said it before and i'll say it again.
lets be thankful that it will finally happen - something.

i am very confident in the next 20 - 50 years, the surrounding areas will have taller office and residential blocks.

this is just a kickstart that is needed and has been talked about for year and years.

its called progress and evolution for perth.

Me, I'm confident that this will be the final nail in the coffin for the "country town" mentality. No longer will the culture (and I know some people will snicker at that) of Northbridge be cut off from the rest of Perth, finally we'll get some spirit across the city.

That said, I'd like some more clusters of tall buildings (~150m) to the south-east of the Arena. Eh, whatever, once we get some landmark buildings going up, that's when we'll see the evolution of Perth: significant numbers of residents living in the city centre, more 24 hour shops (as a night owl, I fell in love with late-night diners and cafes in NY), and due to the rising density, more of the little spaces being exploited more and more (laneways and the like).

I'm hopeful!

would still really prefer there be the original tallest 'landmark' tower there instead of this fed square try hard thing.



http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9479/nblinkpic5.jpg (http://img192.imageshack.us/i/nblinkpic5.jpg/)

What height do people think this one here in the centre will be behind this fed square looking bldg?

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/2689/nblinkpic2.jpg (http://img692.imageshack.us/i/nblinkpic2.jpg/)
It is shown again here ^^ as a curvy round bldg (in the central left of this pic ^^) too.
Alas it doesn't look very tall for a land mark bldg though. Also at least the telstra exchange can be blended in too.

I agree something needs to be built to stand out and say this is central Perth, the bus and train station is here. A landmark people can walk to and see in all directions of main streets in the city and in NorthBridge or a far.

Perhaps the definition of a landmark tower doesn't need to be a skyscraper taller than Central Park (lets face it the big bldgs are all being put on the terrace, and this city wont just allow one big one here, it might encourage eastern states or other local big developers to build more big boys near the link/ central station and then the govt can't keep their precious height controls anymore..
So i guess as long as it stands out with a particular flare or colour and be say 150m minimum.... :) all is sweet...

However if there is no huge tower, as others on here say at least Perth will lose its "Country Tag feel" and at least be revitalised to have some activation between City and Northbridge...

^^^ I know this is a skyscraper forum but ppl need to chill with the excessive heights it just makes you sound crazy... :P
I think the heights they have proposed is enough. 60 - 100m is great and wont detract from the "amenity" of the surrounding area.

+1 gabe27. Tall buildings are a sideshow... activity at the street level should be the main attraction.

Let's not worry about heights... height limits can be changed... let's just get this thing done already!

+200

+201

would still really prefer there be the original tallest 'landmark' tower there instead of this fed square try hard thing.

I'm with u on this... and would be better with more interesting building designs instead of square blocks... but at least something's happening :)

Those are just filler artists impressions. No designs have been tendered yet.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2009/11/29/2756729.htm

The square doesn't look that big when looking at the model shown in the ABC clip. Crossing fingers it'll go ahead, it'll be the biggest change for Perth for ever. If only Allanah was the one launching it ...

The whole plan looks like ass (Cul).

I am utterly convinced, now, that Northbridge, as we know it, is over.

Cheap meals will be a thing of the past, uniqueness a thing of the past, add 30% to the price of everything, and take away 50% of the variety - its a lock in. Northbridge will take on the ambiance of East Perth or the New Subiaco.

This is Perth's only truly unique suburb, it is more livable, more walkable, than any neighbourhood in the city.

Without Northbridge, Perth becomes a sea of mediocrity, an ocean of blandness. No soul, no heart.

How to you suppose that you can keep Northbridge the way it is while still breaking down the gap? Would you prefer we kept the city split in two?

The Northbridge link isn't about northbridge. It's about creating a new precinct. It will only be a link if used as a link.

The whole plan looks like ass (Cul).

I am utterly convinced, now, that Northbridge, as we know it, is over.

Cheap meals will be a thing of the past, uniqueness a thing of the past, add 30% to the price of everything, and take away 50% of the variety - its a lock in. Northbridge will take on the ambiance of East Perth or the New Subiaco.

This is Perth's only truly unique suburb, it is more livable, more walkable, than any neighbourhood in the city.

Without Northbridge, Perth becomes a sea of mediocrity, an ocean of blandness. No soul, no heart.

sounds like a nimby comment.

naaah there was no reference to schools or hospitals

How to you suppose that you can keep Northbridge the way it is while still breaking down the gap? Would you prefer we kept the city split in two?

You can't keep anything the way it is. One of the reasons I like Perth is, despite what ill-informed people from the burbs believe, Perth is constantly changing, and has done so for some time now.

However, the city being "split in two" has never affected me in any way, and I have lived within 1km or 2 of that "gap" for over twenty years.

I am eager to hear anyone's stories on how the "gap" has affected them.

edit.

sounds like a nimby comment.

Got anything intelligent to say, or just insults?

The gap isn't a problem (hence my earlier comment). The problem is that the GAP is a rundown area that has deteriorated over the years (15 years ago it was good) so the only way to get the investors back in is to create some 'hype' ie NBL.
The name NBL is far from what it was ACTUALLY do

The gap isn't a problem (hence my earlier comment). The problem is that the GAP is a rundown area that has deteriorated over the years (15 years ago it was good) so the only way to get the investors back in is to create some 'hype' ie NBL.
The name NBL is far from what it was ACTUALLY do

Yep, the gap isn't a problem. I agree.

Hype won't be necessary - its prime realestate, and would be developed either way. Northbridge will change, and the world will continue to turn.

..and we will get a little slice of East Perth thrown into the middle of the city for good measure. Finbar shares ahoy!

That's the problem, it's prime real estate and noone's touched in years so they need something like this (covering the tracks) which in itself isn't a bad thing to create some momentum for future development. As to whether NB itself will change or not (for the worse) I don't know but you can't stop the 'clean up' of an adjacent area just in case.

That's the problem, it's prime real estate and noone's touched in years so they need something like this (covering the tracks) which in itself isn't a bad thing to create some momentum for future development. As to whether NB itself will change or not (for the worse) I don't know but you can't stop the 'clean up' of an adjacent area just in case.

Thats the dilemma. Covering the tracks, reclaiming land, etc etc, all good ideas. Unfortunately, as evidenced by recent other reclamations (East Perth, Subiaco, CBD, Burswood)... my hopes are not high for anything other than and a bland shiney sterile part of town (such as new subiaco, new east perth).

This whole area needs some very careful thought, and a good architect or two wouldn't hurt.

Yep, the gap isn't a problem. I agree.


The gap is definitely the problem as you can see our CBD is dead after working hours. The entertainment precinct needs to merge with the CBD.

The gap is definitely the problem as you can see our CBD is dead after working hours. The entertainment precinct needs to merge with the CBD.

So, its the gap that is making the CBD dead. OK!

..and here I was, thinking it was a lack of CBD residents, and everything closing at 6pm!

PS - "precincts" are a ridiculously outdated idea. Just sayin.

So, its the gap that is making the CBD dead. OK!

..and here I was, thinking it was a lack of CBD residents, and everything closing at 6pm!

PS - "precincts" are a ridiculously outdated idea. Just sayin.

I am not sure I agree, the NBL will create its own identity away from NB itself. There will be a lot of new commercial space that areas outside the NBL will have to compete to keep existing tenents from moving into the newer area. Well until the NBL is fully completed.
I do agree that the gap isn’t the problem, its uncertainly about the gap. There are a lot of property owners and developers sitting on plans to redevelop their sites because of the uncertainly. Now we have an answer on the link we will see a lot more redevelopment within Nb itself.

The gap is definitely the problem as you can see our CBD is dead after working hours. The entertainment precinct needs to merge with the CBD.

Merging the too wont fix the prblem of the CBD from being deserted after dark. Cos ppl will just vacate the CBD to NB regardless thus leaving the CBD empty. Solution there actually needs to be a reason to stay in the CBD.

Thats the dilemma. Covering the tracks, reclaiming land, etc etc, all good ideas. Unfortunately, as evidenced by recent other reclamations (East Perth, Subiaco, CBD, Burswood)... my hopes are not high for anything other than and a bland shiney sterile part of town (such as new subiaco, new east perth).

This whole area needs some very careful thought, and a good architect or two wouldn't hurt.

reduce the lot sizes and increase the plot ratios would incourage diversity in building design and use.

there's an article (with images) on the NBL in The West Australian today, some of u guys might be interested... pretty cool from wht I see... it also states that the plans for foreshore development would be revealed by Christmas...

"The Link project will ultimately create more than 1,650 dwellings for more than 3,000 people and 244,000sqm of commercial space for about 13,350 workers."

Does anyone else think this new "precinct", and the CBD, would be better served if it was 13,350 residents, and 3,000 workers?

If people like Jan Gehl and Charles Landry point out that one of the CBD's biggest problems is lack of residents, why would the governement not take this advice seriously?

A missed opportunity?

Does anyone think this area will be bustling at night?...or will it be another part of the ghost-town?

It will be bustling (after I'm long dead)

"The Link project will ultimately create more than 1,650 dwellings for more than 3,000 people and 244,000sqm of commercial space for about 13,350 workers."

Does anyone else think this new "precinct", and the CBD, would be better served if it was 13,350 residents, and 3,000 workers?

CBD is a prime area and traditionally meant for businesses only... imho, the allocation for residental purposes marks a generous quota

Does anyone else think this new "precinct", and the CBD, would be better served if it was 13,350 residents, and 3,000 workers?
Yes, I do. Although I'd be somewhat concerned about the possibility of grand-scale NIMBYism. :eek:

You guys should listen to jesus here.

NVL is right about the compulsion we have for sterility. We really do have a problem with that…it permeates everything.

How to you suppose that you can keep Northbridge the way it is while still breaking down the gap? Would you prefer we kept the city split in two?

I think now is the time we embrace the idea of "boroughs". If the Northbridge "spirit" is strong, then getting rid of the gap that separates it from the rest of Perth shouldn't do anything to diminish it's spirit. Hell, with the Arena on one end, and the Square on the other, we'll still have a edge of sorts between the two anyway.

people need to realise by bringing a commercial population to tha northern end of town, means people become exposed to tha unique character of northbridge... i don't see this as a death knell at all... it kinda reminds me of east end of melb cbd where a section is mostly corp/finance and then you have an adjacent mix of housing and entertainment precinct like china town/bourke/russell streets etc... where people actually walk a few blocks to eat somewhere run down and hidden...

[I]Does anyone else think this new "precinct", and the CBD, would be better served if it was 13,350 residents, and 3,000 workers?

Definitely. What I'd most like to see is the increased construction of higher density apartments, with somewhat smaller rooms so we can start to get more of the middle-class moving into the city center. While I love premium apartments, without more of the "rabble", we're denying ourselves the opportunity to really change the foundations of the city, the chance to really make the city center a real cultural hotpot.

While I'm not going to take back what I said before, that I think the NBL is a great idea, part of what makes a city great is a certain amount of grittiness. That's the sole reason I much prefer Melbourne to Sydney or Brisbane, it's that grittiness.

You guys should listen to jesus here.


haha. I missed ya, little fella.

vic-k - I agree with your sentiments.

crave - I agree about the new exposure, but, we have too much commercial zoning as it is, over the entire CBD. We need more residential. PS, whitney is coming. High five girlfriend!

We have a conundrum. Middle class in the city = Good, but Do Perth middle class want to live in small apartments in the city as opposed to the usual size in the burbs? I don't have the answer.

Thats the dilemma. Covering the tracks, reclaiming land, etc etc, all good ideas. Unfortunately, as evidenced by recent other reclamations (East Perth, Subiaco, CBD, Burswood)... my hopes are not high for anything other than and a bland shiney sterile part of town (such as new subiaco, new east perth).

This whole area needs some very careful thought, and a good architect or two wouldn't hurt.

So you'd rather dirty railway lines and run down barely inhabitable buildings on surrounding streets than this? (edit - this is a genuine question)

NB will be fine, if anything it will keep the "squares" away from NB and have them focus on this area.

We have a conundrum. Middle class in the city = Good, but Do Perth middle class want to live in small apartments in the city as opposed to the usual size in the burbs? I don't have the answer.

The sad answer is, no. While I live in an apartment near the city center, I have a number of friends who think I'm daft, and are much happier living in the urban sprawl of Beeliar and its surrounds.

Sadly, the way it is right now, the incentives for living in the CBD are only there for the white-collar workers:

- Can afford apartments: check
- Work longer hours, and don't want to mess around with being stuck in peak hour traffic for an hour: check
- Have enough disposable income so they can actually afford to eat and entertain in the city center: check
- Are less likely to have kids, so space is less of an issue: check


One last thing: A thought snuck into my head when I was writing this. An inner city university with student apartments next door would be a great way to help boost the residential density of the city, especially if it were situated somewhere on the NBL. The sad thing is, I think we're still probably 20 years away from Perth needing another Uni, so I guess we can scratch that.

So you'd rather dirty railway lines and run down barely inhabitable buildings on surrounding streets than this? (edit - this is a genuine question).

I choose not to answer that.

:naughty:

Damn, that was quite a dour post

:banana:

NB will be fine, if anything it will keep the "squares" away from NB and have them focus on this area.

We might even get a little of NB feel in the NBL? maybe :D

We might even get a little of NB feel in the NBL? maybe :D

Best post yet.

Here's hoping jarkti!

What suburb name do you think they will give it? Perth, Northbridge, Northbridge link?

Perthbridge?

Whats the adress of PEC or The Area?
If those two fall under Perth, then I reckon they'll call it Perth, to me the border is Roe Street.

What suburb name do you think they will give it? Perth, Northbridge, Northbridge link?

I'd hope "Perth".

LOLin at PerthBridge.


Perth is a big suburb. it wraps around poor lil NB and goes north to Bulwer st and north east to lord st...

well going off the street directory, it shows that Northbridge starts on Roe Street, which would mean the whole area of the Link would be in the suburb of Perth...

I did it bigger so people could see the pictures :)

http://i48.************/9zxc29.jpg

One last thing: A thought snuck into my head when I was writing this. An inner city university with student apartments next door would be a great way to help boost the residential density of the city, especially if it were situated somewhere on the NBL. The sad thing is, I think we're still probably 20 years away from Perth needing another Uni, so I guess we can scratch that.

Yep, been saying that for a long time. We need an inner city university & accompanying affordable accomodation. Instant population boost in the right demographic for night life to flourish.

ORRRR we could just keep building italian granite dishwasher swan river view retirement homes until the city itself turns into a gigantic gold-plated coffin.

this is going to be one of the most urban feeling area's of the CBD i believe, you will have the street frontages of the buildings having shop fronts like in Northbridge, but as the pics below show it will also have high rise buildings like along the Terrace, it will be something Perthians are unfamiliar with. but it seems we should be expecting about three 100m towers in the project which would fit in well with each of Raine/One40/Telstra...

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/7596/nbmodel2.jpg

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/8597/nbmodel.jpg

So we'll launch our electrographic worm attacks at these key intersections!

...what are those lines supposed to represent?

I wish we were told about that model!
i would have gone and looked!
does anyone know if its still there? if there going to keep it there or where its going?
because id seriously love to go look at it and get some pictures.

It was probably there for the press conference only jarkti. It was on the train line overpass. Not exactly the safest spot for expensive things and/or retaining your rape-free status.

It was probably there for the press conference only jarkti. It was on the train line overpass. Not exactly the safest spot for expensive things and/or retaining your rape-free status.

I seen it on the news that night, knew i should have gone into the city that day!

So we'll launch our electrographic worm attacks at these key intersections!

...what are those lines supposed to represent?

i was just indicating the height of the three tallest buildings in the Link area as well as Telstra and Raine, as they kinda blended into the background and lisa's jacket...

I'm not sure she-ra scaffidi would have let you play with her stuff.

Yep, been saying that for a long time. We need an inner city university & accompanying affordable accomodation. Instant population boost in the right demographic for night life to flourish.

ORRRR we could just keep building italian granite dishwasher swan river view retirement homes until the city itself turns into a gigantic gold-plated coffin.

Hopefully this project is finished by the time most forum members reach this demographic...

Didn't you hear? The entire project will be finished within 4 years!

dot dot dot

Docker, Where did you get the screen prints of the video?
because if you have a link to the video, id very much like it :D

didn't you link it from the abc website?...

edit: nope it was dcmcd

didn't you link it from the abc website?...

I did?
haha, could have been bart -goes back and looks-

link me please Docker, I cant find anything:)

I like it. Seems like a great idea. The development of a square has done wonders for Melbourne and if done right will create a great place to visit in Perth for tourists and locals alike.

A quiet place for families to picnic!?? This is the middle of the city not Whiteman Park!

I did?
haha, could have been bart -goes back and looks-

link me please Docker, I cant find anything:)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2009/11/29/2756729.htm

A quiet place for families to picnic!?? This is the middle of the city not Whiteman Park!

I had exactly the same reaction. What is the obsession with "family friendly" and "picnic"?

To help people compare the changes to the Horseshoe area:

Before:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/43/11ej3.jpg

Now (thanks to jarkti for beating me to the scan):
http://i48.************/9zxc29.jpg

"Quiet space for families to picnic"...

Right next to the train station...

:gaah:

Edit: I wonder if Barnie personally requested that bit, using those exact words? :lol:

"He said a "funky" 11,000sqm town square twice the size of Forrest Place..."

^^ Please tell me his use of this word was captured on video, or at least a soundbyte... I will pay to hear it.

Also, that little yellow bit in the middle of the Horseshoe Bridge... is that indicating a walkway through the traffic (i.e. atop the bridge), or a passage underneath?

what is the number 1 pedestrian overpass overpassing exactly? It looks like they have proposed another pedestrian overpass in the next block of buildings to the west as well. you can see in the previous design they were just level pedestrian streets.

i think a ground level pedestrian link would be much more appropriate

...

what is the number 1 pedestrian overpass overpassing exactly? It looks like they have proposed another pedestrian overpass in the next block of buildings to the west as well. you can see in the previous design they were just level pedestrian streets.

i think a ground level pedestrian link would be much more appropriate

Maybe it is an overpass at ground level over the busport underneath?

"He said a "funky" 11,000sqm town square twice the size of Forrest Place..."

^^ Please tell me his use of this word was captured on video, or at least a soundbyte... I will pay to hear it.

Also, that little yellow bit in the middle of the Horseshoe Bridge... is that indicating a walkway through the traffic (i.e. atop the bridge), or a passage underneath?

Maybe he thnks he is Tone Loc.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/9b/Funky_Cold_Medina.jpg/200px-

To me where the 1 is, is where you go down into the underground bus station..
and there just going to have some shops above it or somethings :D

Yeah im pretty sure 1 will actually be at ground level, but over the underground bus station. At least thats how I interpreted that.

Maybe it could be above ground level, though I dont really see how that could work..

Thinking about it, the town square will be a pretty cool area being enclosed by the Horseshoe bridge. As long as the building in the centre is very active at ground level I think it will pretty successful.

They havnt taken much extra space from the previous design really, and i also like the idea of the little viewing platform with windows to the underground trains.

Was thinking during the day (yeah I am slow not to have noticed it before) that the previous design was meant to look like the horseshoe game, where the tower was the metal stake.

'Quiet space for families to picnic'? That makes me sick.

Who would want to have a picnic under the Horsehoe Bridge? If you don't have a lot of spare cash floating around Colin then sell off that land instead of planting grass. There is no need for additional open space when the large town square is on the other side of that four storey building!

Well its not like we dont have enough space on the foreshore for families to picnic or anything.



:bash::bash::bash:

On ABC this morning Richard Weller welcome the extra residents. He mentioned the Celebration Place name as a bit too forced (I think he used the term "forced fun") and suggested "The Shoe" as the colloquial name for the plaza. Sounds a lot better to me.

Who here picnics on a regular basis, or at all? If so, where?

Maybe he thnks he is Tone Loc.
:lol:

On ABC this morning Richard Weller welcome the extra residents. He mentioned the Celebration Place name as a bit too forced and suggested "The Shoe" as the colloquial name for the plaza. Sounds a lot better to me.
Fair call. "Celebration Place" has never worked for me either.