All roads lead to Wellington Street East as well.

:lol: The quality control is not very important, is it?

tsk tsk tsk...

And you forgot to mention that they are (apparently) renaming Wellington Street.

Are they? Seriously?

Or are you taking the piss?

Glad to see that ugly footbridge is going. That whole WSBS area was vile.

Are they? Seriously?

Or are you taking the piss?

Glad to see that ugly footbridge is going. That whole WSBS area was vile.

Mate, take a look at the map I posted and you'll see what he means.. :wink2:

That's truly shocking - do they take any pride in their work?!

Ah!

I don't know who's the bigger idiot: them for making the mistake or me for not picking up on it...

I also didn't know Wellington St was circular. Travel west and you'll end up at the east section! The east section isn't renamed though, it will be very confusing.

It's the long way round, via South Africa.

Wow that bridge coming down is a terrible idea! It is by far the best way to get to NB... it will be the biggest barrier ever, and this "NB Link" is meant to be about removing barriers! At present in rain you can pretty much walk from William CBD to William NB in the dry with awnings and the covered bridge.

It has to come down so they can build the tunnel! I'm more than happy to put up with the disruption for what we are getting in the end.

It has to come down so they can build the tunnel! I'm more than happy to put up with the disruption for what we are getting in the end.

Well the pedestrian access over the horseshoe bridge had better be nice.

I use that 'bridge' almost every time I go into the city. Sad times. Then again I curse everytime I walk on it thinking it looks like something from the 80's of an impoverished country

It's not just a thoroughfare, people gather there, is the sad thing. I'd only just developed an aesthetic appreciation of the toilets as well, the tiled mosaic wall.

It also has an awesome smooth tiled floor that you can nearly skate through on smooth wet thongs (or my ex's cork thongs). Used to get some weird looks doing that though :lol:

Give it time and people will forget that it ever existed. Much like the Raine Square footbridge.

I don't mind as long as there is something better eventually. Not sure why it's so difficult to create direct access, even temporarily.

I walk over the Horseshoe Bridge because it gives a good view of the CBD buildings. And also it reminds me of the last foal I ate. Done three ways. Was quite tasty. Apologies to any horse lovers out there. I wasn't being serious!

I don't mind as long as there is something better eventually. Not sure why it's so difficult to create direct access, even temporarily.

because they have to build a tunnel there!!!

think about it. where the railway tracks are currently, they have to build new temporary tracks, redirect the trains onto those new tracks, build a tunnel, redirect the trains back into the new tunnel, and then do all the ground works after that..

how can they possibly retain pedestrian access across there!!!

Well there will be nothing there eventually. It makes way for the public plaza.

because they have to build a tunnel there!!!

think about it. where the railway tracks are currently, they have to build new temporary tracks, redirect the trains onto those new tracks, build a tunnel, redirect the trains back into the new tunnel, and then do all the ground works after that..

how can they possibly retain pedestrian access across there!!!

What about if they reopen the stairs from the Horseshoe bridge down to the platform so we can get through the underground?

Kelli, which stairs? You mean entrance at the top of the Horseshoe bridge onto that Wooden overpass inside the station? If so, that wooden overpass is going as well... the platform it leads to is being demolished?

Yes, the ones from the top of the bridge. The southern platform i.e. on the city side? People still need to access the trains though. Can see I have to look up the plans though.

The wooden overpass is going and will be replaced by a pedestrian tunnel linking all platforms to perth underground. There will be some of temporary access somewhere.

I personally think its awesome that more people are going to have to walk over the bridge.

It's a cool bridge! :D

And also it reminds me of the last foal I ate. Done three ways. Was quite tasty. Apologies to any horse lovers out there. I wasn't being serious!

Your post also may require a reference to glue.

Good work with the white coloured text

pretty sure also this means they're knocking down the last 24 hour public toilets in that part of the city

pretty sure also this means they're knocking down the last 24 hour public toilets in that part of the city



The William Street railway footbridge will
permanently close at the Roe Street end
from 24 August 2011. The southern end,
including the Wellington Street stairs and
escalator, public toilets, and connection
from the Wellington Street Bus Station
to the southern-most escalator to Perth
Station will remain open (see map).

Not yet...

ah I misread it, cheers

did anyone on here contact PTA about the errors on their footbridge map? its now been fixed :P

Lurkers, perhaps.

Feel free to share any interesting inside info you have, dear lurkers :)

They're looking to us for inside info and proofreading ;)

hey lurkers... trams please... don't be patronising with more of tha bus network crap...

while you're at it... quit with that stupid security car following buses and trains i mean seriously... imagine tha costs associated with leasing those vehicles, hiring personnel and just general associated waste with that program... talk about false sense of security... what a crock...

i mean, you have these security cars following buses, but you can't stop people vandalising tha bus, by tha time you inspect tha bus and see it all scratched and tagged up a little too late??? meanwhile, you have that stupid security car following tha bus while it was happening? why not have security on tha bus with tha driver if you must have these security measures... by tha time sh*t happens it's too late????

/end rant...

haha that's because if security was on the bus they may actually have to do something rather than simply being used by the dept to show (pretend) that they are doing something. Talk about a no brainer job though (driving the car)

The security cars are not about stopping vandalism. They are about being mobile so that they can attend to genuine threats. For example, if a bus is being pelted with rocks, the security car can attend and round up/chase off whoever is throwing the rocks so that the next service passing through doesn't get pelted with rocks.
Or if someone is kicked off the bus because there is a problem, the bus driver can warn other buses not to pick them up/not to stop and they can call for security to check it out.

As for having them on the bus, doesn't work as most of the security threats they attend to are outside the vehicle (especially now with the cage protecting drivers most of the time)

good theories. I'd be interested to see actual stats and incident reports for what they've done. (I'm dreaming)

Often, if a bus driver picks up a person or group of people from whom they feel threatened, they will call a car as a precaution. Seems ok to me.

Yep. If I was a bus driver I'd be pretty happy to have a car following my bus around, especially when my colleagues are spat on, abused, punched, etc. Bus drivers put up with a whole lot of shit.

The security cars are not about stopping vandalism. They are about being mobile so that they can attend to genuine threats. For example, if a bus is being pelted with rocks, the security car can attend and round up/chase off whoever is throwing the rocks so that the next service passing through doesn't get pelted with rocks.
Or if someone is kicked off the bus because there is a problem, the bus driver can warn other buses not to pick them up/not to stop and they can call for security to check it out.

As for having them on the bus, doesn't work as most of the security threats they attend to are outside the vehicle (especially now with the cage protecting drivers most of the time)


i don't accept this at all... there are other ways to deal with this... public transport shouldn't be about protecting what happens outside tha bus... if you gonna throw a rock at a bus, you're gonna throw something at a bus... security presence on tha bus, gives you direct control with what goes on in that bus... if you kick shitheads off tha bus, you relay that message to bus network... to degree now most people use those bus card things... if someone acting up, use tha technology to flag that individual so if they kicked and try coming back on they simply get refused by security... idiots soon learn tha hard way and then bitches pay attention... there's current loop holes in that system atm but this is why i support having a verified account on public transport and a need to have a card system... if you mess up on public transport you should be accountable for it...

i simply do not accept an extra $30k-40k per annum on a car lease and then hiring someone drive these vehicles... and here's tha sand in tha face, think about when they use these cars, it's usually after 6 to about mid-night... so these cars basically get used for up to 6 hours a day and tha rest of tha time sitting around for costing $30k-40k per annum!!!

Wow that bridge coming down is a terrible idea! It is by far the best way to get to NB... it will be the biggest barrier ever,

I agree, the Horsehoe Bridge is not very direct and provides no cover. And knowing construction in this city it will a whole decade before any sort of pedestrian link opens up again.

If the Horsehoe Bridge wasn't one of the only pieces of heritage we have in this city I'd say it should be knocked down.

It's of the few non-utilitarian things in Perth. Non practical and pointless shape. At least we have something that's not purely functional.

It's of the few non-utilitarian things in Perth. Non practical and pointless shape. At least we have something that's not purely functional.

but it IS functional... it is that shape to get their height to get over the railway. You'd have lost a heap of William St both sides f they had to ramp up.

Yes what I would have thought too. When considered in its era, it is definitely more 'functional' than visually attractive.

i don't accept this at all... there are other ways to deal with this... public transport shouldn't be about protecting what happens outside tha bus... if you gonna throw a rock at a bus, you're gonna throw something at a bus... security presence on tha bus, gives you direct control with what goes on in that bus... if you kick shitheads off tha bus, you relay that message to bus network... to degree now most people use those bus card things... if someone acting up, use tha technology to flag that individual so if they kicked and try coming back on they simply get refused by security... idiots soon learn tha hard way and then bitches pay attention... there's current loop holes in that system atm but this is why i support having a verified account on public transport and a need to have a card system... if you mess up on public transport you should be accountable for it...

i simply do not accept an extra $30k-40k per annum on a car lease and then hiring someone drive these vehicles... and here's tha sand in tha face, think about when they use these cars, it's usually after 6 to about mid-night... so these cars basically get used for up to 6 hours a day and tha rest of tha time sitting around for costing $30k-40k per annum!!!

I really don't understand what your problem is here.

Some dudes get a job out of it, bus drivers feel secure, passengers probably feel more secure knowing theres a security car following their bus on a potentially troublesome route, shit heads are deterred from being assholes and attacking people and property, and the cost isn't particularly big when spread across the entire system.

If you even begin to consider the logistics of barring passengers from public transport, you'll see how much more expensive that non-solution would be. Implementing the system, maintaining the system, enforcing the system... Who is going to physically bar violent people from the bus? The bus driver? A security guard on every bus?

Who cares if a car sits in a lot for much of the day? Why is that a personal affront? :P

I think what crave is saying (and I agree) is that it's not the best use of govt funds for the intended purpose. It's one of those half arse ideas with very limited results but enough money spent to tick a box somewhere.

Come to think of it, not much different than many other govt initiatives. Good for circulating $$ in the economy but no real gain.

I actually don't think its a bad idea. Having a mobile security force for buses at night seems fine to me.

The alternatives - have a security guard on every bus = much more money "wasted" or do nothing and suffer the wrath of the media and potentially lower patronage when an attack happens.

I think what crave is saying (and I agree) is that it's not the best use of govt funds for the intended purpose. It's one of those half arse ideas with very limited results but enough money spent to tick a box somewhere.

Come to think of it, not much different than many other govt initiatives. Good for circulating $$ in the economy but no real gain.

If you mean that it sucks that public transport by it's very nature is patronised by people who are anti-social assholes, and that everyone has to pay to offset/deter/minimise their impact - sure, that's kind of wasteful, I guess?

But to me, the benefits of the mobile security outweigh any percieved 'waste'. And I don't think it's a waste to have some element of protection for bus drivers who are vulnerable to all kinds of shit.

http://media.smh.com.au/cctv-shows-attack-on-bus-driver-665615.html

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-national/perth-bus-driver-attacked-with-bottle-20110223-1b4to.html

http://mt-druitt-standard.whereilive.com.au/news/story/bus-driver-attacked-at-knife-point/

http://hills-shire-times.whereilive.com.au/news/story/bus-driver-attacked-by-youths-in-carlingford/

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2009-08-21/bus-driver-attacked/1399768

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/bus-driver-attacked-in-city-20090731-e487.html

I'm usually not a proponent of the Security industry either, it's one of those irritating costs of doing business that often has to be seen to be worth the money spent on it, resulting in bullshit that justifies it's own existence. I had a run-in with security walking through Wellington St Bus Station with some friends at midnight one night that was a pure example of bored idiots needing to exert authority.

But I digress. :D

i'm not denying there isn't an issue with security... i just don't believe it's necessary for x number cars following x number of buses/trains on high risk routes... i think it's better to have security on tha bus and trains where they are visible... they have an immediate impact and don't need to be tailing tha bus in a car...

having said that, i'd put tha money in "patrol cars" and have an overall monitoring/inspections of routes, train stations and infrastructure... and if an issue comes up elsewhere, those cars can be directed to that incident... it's no different to police cars and security cars...

I'm with Crave on this one.

Ineffectual, and therefore, a huge waste of money.

Maybe you should spend an hour or two around Armadale Bus station, and then I'm sure you'll agree that it’s good to have them around. I myself have been thankful that they're there especially when some of the locals start harassing me and others.

why would you hang around for 2 hours at a bus station...

you only hang around that long if you looking for tricks, ass and weed...

haha

Also, I thought this was regarding cars following the buses, not security at the actual bus station.

I spend most of my days and nights in Northbridge, which as we all know, is the most violent place in the entire metro area, and we don't have security guards here.

haha

Also, I thought this was regarding cars following the buses, not security at the actual bus station.

I spend most of my days and nights in Northbridge, which as we all know, is the most violent place in the entire metro area, and we don't have security guards here.

It needs them! Lets start a campaign. Security guards for all! Today tonight will run with it.....

Today tonight will run with it.....

There was a story about a week ago on TV:

A backpacker (I think he was brazilian) foiled a robbery in "Northbridge" by tackling some guy to the ground.

The only problem was, the robbery occurred up near the Hyde Park Hotel. So, it was actually in either West Perth, or North Perth, depending on what side of the street it occurred.

The media loooovvves a good Northbridge/crime story, and would no doubt be behind a campaign for "security guards in Northbridge" 100%.

There was a story about a week ago on TV:

A backpacker (I think he was brazilian) foiled a robbery in "Northbridge" by tackling some guy to the ground.

The only problem was, the robbery occurred up near the Hyde Park Hotel. So, it was actually in either West Perth, or North Perth, depending on what side of the street it occurred.

The media loooovvves a good Northbridge/crime story, and would no doubt be behind a campaign for "security guards in Northbridge" 100%.

Perth, not North Perth...

There was a story about a week ago on TV:

A backpacker (I think he was brazilian) foiled a robbery in "Northbridge" by tackling some guy to the ground.

The only problem was, the robbery occurred up near the Hyde Park Hotel. So, it was actually in either West Perth, or North Perth, depending on what side of the street it occurred.

The media loooovvves a good Northbridge/crime story, and would no doubt be behind a campaign for "security guards in Northbridge" 100%.

I seriously want to see you get them to do an article on this. Basis of another blog update after?

Perth, not North Perth...

Without even looking it up, I know that the Hyde Park Hotel is in West Perth.

Pretty sure that the corner there is where Perth, West Perth, and North Perth meet.

Confirm?

I seriously want to see you get them to do an article on this. Basis of another blog update after?

Blog may or may not be updated very shortly with a "Hitler Rant" / liquor licensing video I may or may not have been working on.... ;)

Perth, not North Perth...

Its all CoV anyway...... maybe we should start a campaign about the dangers of living in the CoV instead! Security Guards (or Brazilian Backpackers - the choice is yours) for all CoV ratepayers!


Edit - Nate - the east side of Fitzgerald St there along Bulwer St is all Perth. But I think the North West side (where KFC is) may be North Perth, and the south west side (where the Hydey is) West Perth?

pretty sure vincent st is the border of perth and north perth, let me check

pretty sure vincent st is the border of perth and north perth, let me check

I was right, fitzgerald st is border of perth and west perth, while vincent st is the northern border

http://www.street-directory.com.au/sd3/map.php?x=115.85880065957393&y=-31.936436786738586&l=14&mt=4

Its all CoV anyway...... maybe we should start a campaign about the dangers of living in the CoV instead! Security Guards (or Brazilian Backpackers - the choice is yours) for all CoV ratepayers!

If the backpackers are from the favelas, they won't be afraid of a bit of action....


Edit - Nate - the east side of Fitzgerald St there along Bulwer St is all Perth. But I think the North West side (where KFC is) may be North Perth, and the south west side (where the Hydey is) West Perth?

http://i55.tinypic.com/ejtxg9.jpg

except that bit in the top right you've labelled highgate is actually mount lawley

except that bit in the top right you've labelled highgate is actually mount lawley

Yeah, I got confused by the council boundaries...

it was NORTH PERTH. A pharmacy on the corner of Bulwer. They tackled the guy after he ran out of the chemist. The media would probably stretch NB all the wa to yanchep for a good story.

it was NORTH PERTH. A pharmacy on the corner of Bulwer. They tackled the guy after he ran out of the chemist. The media would probably stretch NB all the wa to yanchep for a good story.

None of Bulwer is in North Perth though...

Link to Landgate inner suburbs maps (http://www.landgate.wa.gov.au/docvault.nsf/web/PS_FREEMAP/$FILE/Perth_Inner_Metro_Mosaic.pdf)

Thanks Hack .... is there somewhere online that shows suburb boundaries (all in one place?)

Samboy.... the pharmacy is technically in Perth...but I agree about the NB/Media thing.

ah sorry I meant to say angove... pretty sure it was angove.

Thanks Hack .... is there somewhere online that shows suburb boundaries (all in one place?)


You could probably find a more detailed one but this is a best I can find at the moment.

http://www.landgate.wa.gov.au/docvault.nsf/web/PS_FREEMAP/$FILE/Arterial_Roads_LGA_&_Localities.pdf

ah sorry I meant to say angove... pretty sure it was angove.

:lol: Seriously?? Bulwer St Pharmacy is at least in the vicinity of NB...... but Angove Street...

ah crap my mistake...I'm getting old. it is bulwer. but yeah different point.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-09/offender-chased-by-shop-assistant/2788230

According to The West it was corner of Bulwer and Fitzgerald Sts in North Perth...


link (http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/9816816/dynamic-duo-catch-robber-after-chase/)

EDIT: what he said.

Perhaps the media defines Northbridge as literally anywhere North of ''the bridge''.

If the backpackers are from the favelas, they won't be afraid of a bit of action....

Doubt folks from the Favelas could afford to come to Perth! Probably a Brazilian rich boi!

Still, it could be worse for him.... he could have been traveling on the London Underground with a backpack on.....

So exciting this is actually happening!! :D

City links will be bridge for growth
BEATRICE THOMAS, The West Australian
July 28, 2011, 6:34 am

The first of five new pedestrian connections between the city centre and Northbridge will be built within months as part of a works program that will create the first development sites and public spaces for the Perth City Link project.
Planning Minister John Day said yesterday the $10 million stage-one works program included creating two new development sites between Perth Arena and the former Perth Entertainment Centre and the first part of an extension to Milligan Street to provide access to the Arena and bus access to Wellington Street.
The works package, which started this month with upgrades to gas, water and sewerage infrastructure, also included a landscaped area with trees, seating and lighting.
The works are likely to run until the middle of next year.
It comes as new images offer the first glimpse of what the proposed Milligan Plaza will look like.
"These works are the first step in delivering five new connections between the city centre and Northbridge which will bring the two areas together for the first time in more than 100 years," Mr Day said. The new space would include public artworks and water features, to be funded separately, and convey a distinctly Australian theme.
The minister's office confirmed Perth City Link land would be offered for sale in coming months. It will include development rights offered across all the Government's landholdings.
Demolition of the Perth Entertainment Centre, which is owned by Seven Group Holdings, started in May and is expected to finish by the end of this year to pave the way for up to six residential and commercial towers on the site.
A Public Transport Authority spokeswoman said major preparatory works such as changing bus routes and clearing land for construction of a temporary Fremantle rail line would start next month.
Running east-west across the city, Perth City Link will provide 1650 apartments for more than 3000 city residents and is expected to create jobs for about 13,000 workers.
http://l.yimg.com/ea/img/-/110728/260711gencitylink1_17316ir-17316je.jpg
Source (http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/9928185/city-links-will-be-bridge-for-growth/)

This is fantastic, finally something is happening!

It's a failure that there isn't a push for more than just 3000 people living here though, could easily do twice or 3 times that.

I wonder if there will be any new bars/nightclubs at any of the tenancies. I'm not holding my breath.

has anyone else noticed in tha public art strategy document on tha epra website, where it lists tha funding sources for tha art pieces... it mentions one source as "BMW Arena" for tha arena forecourt...

have i missed something with naming rights here???

very much doubt that an Auto maker with no links to WA and only one dealership here would sponsor the arena.

More chance of it being the BWS Arena or BRW Arena..... (definitely BWS knowing Perth!)

This is fantastic, finally something is happening!

It's a failure that there isn't a push for more than just 3000 people living here though, could easily do twice or 3 times that.

As I've said in the past, those estimates are usually minimum numbers outlined in the masterplan. Actual numbers could be a lot higher if the developers wish.

BMW sponsors the Perth Cup. Maybe they will continue their sporting trend?

I'm not sure Hyundi (sponsor of the Hopman Cup) would be pleased about playing in a venue sponsored by another car maker though.

EDIT: The arena is being constructed under the aspicies of the Department of Treasury (Building, Management & Works) division.

As I've said in the past, those estimates are usually minimum numbers outlined in the masterplan. Actual numbers could be a lot higher if the developers wish.

Just wondering is there any height restrictions in this new area?

So with the refurbishment of platform 6/7 completed and services returning to those platforms as of today does that mean the forward works/(stage 1?) have successfully been completed? We are well on our way now!

This is fantastic, finally something is happening!

It's a failure that there isn't a push for more than just 3000 people living here though, could easily do twice or 3 times that.

Im not saying this is the case but I wonder if they think more appartments at this point in time will saturate the market and then bring down prices.

Investors wouldnt want that!!!!

There's a new render of this in todays West, in the 'Australian Engineering Week' special lift-out...

Looks pretty good, with some of the buildings at heights similar to the existing Telstra Building and W140/Raine Square.

Thanks DB, I hope you don't mind but I found it so thought I may as well post it...

http://info-thewest.anittel.net/westadvertising/feature/20110801/img/page-32.jpg

http://info-thewest.anittel.net/westadvertising/feature/20110801/img/page-33.jpg
From http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/

Damn - forgot about that today - wanted to get that pull out section. Thanks for posting Kelli.

Course I don't mind :D

in the future bhp will deconstruct its self to half size

So the 4 towers at the east, and the two towers directly east of Perth Arena are to be developed by a single developer, whoever is successful in the tender process. The 4 (?) towers in the middle are 7's.

I would love to see the developer include a cinema in the building at the north-east corner of Perth Arena.

in the future bhp will deconstruct its self to half size

huh?

A cinema is a must on this site.

Hilarious how they make a point of mentioning the biggest failure of the whole link project:

3060
"The number of residents in the area covered by City Link"

--------

Is it really *that* low? I know I'm surprised every time I see the number, but surely it's more than 3060?

Ridiculous, isn't it.

Should be like 3080 or 3090.

i think you guys are too caught up in that number... it's only a starting point and i don't necessarily believe they should be pumping as many people into an area that is primarily aimed at recreation/transport/commercial...

we have enough lots south of wellington and neighbouring northbridge for development if tha demand is skyrockets... people living adjacent to these perth link is what will make this area...

it's interesting to note for example, southbank doesn't have many recreational amenities to tha back where tha residential towers are... people walk back up to crown/cbd/boulevard or travel to other "small scale" settings etc, similarly with st kilda road aparments, it's a vast wasteland of apartment towers with a few amenities dotted along...

While I agree the population 'target' is low to begin with, NBLink will help facilitate quite a lot of residential development in the western end of Northbridge and eastern part of Leederville.

Once you take out the size of the arena site, it equates to 3000 people, minimum, over around 10 hectares, which is a density of around 30,000/km2. That is actually pretty decent density given the number of open squares in the area.

If the whole City of Perth was that dense (it's around 12km2 or 1200 hectares), it would have a population of around 360,000...

3060 is pretty dismal. I could bang that many people on a single night (after binging on drugs and alcohol in the adjacent drug/sex precinct of 'Northbridge')!

3060 is a great minimum.
If developers want to go higher they can but at least they have been given a minimum.

I do wish however the minimum was a little higher... I think this precinct should be mainly residential, not office...
at the same time I believe the foreshore should be solely office and hotel, no resi's.

It's not a start point, it's an end point.

Thats it.

Game over for Perth and CBD population density.

..and along with that, the chance of having even a single busy area in a city of nearly 2 million people.

Really, it's a total failure, and a joke.

edit, by "total failure" I am referring specifically to the population density aspect.

ssssshhhhhhhhhhhh.

ssssshhhhhhhhhhhh.

haha

Don't shoot the messenger ;)

I see peoples point re the minimum resi's, but there is alot of wasted space in the CBD and I think having resi's in the Waterfront is not a bad idea at all.

How do they determine the number of residents? Is that the number of apartments or the number of bedrooms x 2 persons per bedroom? The former would undercut the estimate of 'residents', the latter would give the biggest result though is not always the case...

they super-impose a select number of would-be asian residents (they love inner-city lifestyles) anyways... they parade them up and down tha streets below, walking their little fluff ball toy breed doggies and a select panel from tha residents across tha road on wellington street determine how much of that they can take in tha mornings, whack that into a inner city density calculator and it spits out a figure...

I see ... quite an in depth process... more technical than I thought!

or to simplify it a bit...

approx 2 people per dwelling.

haha sorry can't help myself... :p

I wonder whether tha need for exemplary design on tha resi tower is a reason they went less on height to make developers focus on architecture...

LOL crave, just picturing that in my head made laugh

or to simplify it a bit...

approx 2 people per dwelling.

2 ppl per dwelling is already the norm. By 2030, half of Australian's will either live by themselves or with one other person.

^^
Which will mean that half wont.

I was of the belief that the current rate of ppl per dwelling across Australia (across all housing types) was 2.3

Average for all dwellings is around 2.3, but I think it is around 1.8-1.9 for apartments.

There are supposed to be around 1650 apartments in the NBL project, so 3060 is 1.85 people per apartment.

Has the western concourse at the train station had a stay of execution?

Nope, closes on the 24th

3000 odd residents for cty link is not much to get excited about. the site would be a good spot for a couple of 400 mtr tall apartment / office towers , this would also help build some critical mass for the Downtown area.

400m...

our developers can barely build 20 level apartments.

It would take years to complete anything that height

^^
Which will mean that half wont.

I was of the belief that the current rate of ppl per dwelling across Australia (across all housing types) was 2.3

Despite the 2.3 ratio, there is actually a big difference between half living in couples or by themselves. At the moment, the amount is only about 30% so to jump to 50% in a decade or so is a big deal.

The 2030 figure will probably result in an average household size of 1.7-1.9.

My point being, we will start to see far more houses and apartments being developed as only one (probably with a study or small spare bed) or two bedrooms.

Despite the 2.3 ratio, there is actually a big difference between half living in couples or by themselves. At the moment, the amount is only about 30% so to jump to 50% in a decade or so is a big deal.

The 2030 figure will probably result in an average household size of 1.7-1.9.

My point being, we will start to see far more houses and apartments being developed as only one (probably with a study or small spare bed) or two bedrooms.

indeed, this is what i expect as well. i think it will also be caused by affordability and people wanting location over size. im looking at putting some 2x1s and 1x1s in an inner suburb for this very reason

It would take years to complete anything that height

Not to mention the decade to get a design and an approval.

3000 odd residents for cty link is not much to get excited about. the site would be a good spot for a couple of 400 mtr tall apartment / office towers , this would also help build some critical mass for the Downtown area.


I think the tallest we will see is 100 metres. As much as I hope and wish there is a landmark building in the PrthLink (150m +) i think what is more likely going to happen is an incentive for developers to start going up well into Northbridge......

Lets make Perth a little deeper than a two street city, bring on a multi suburb skyline like Melbourne and Sydney.

I can see why people get frustrated with Perth and then leave :ohno:

i think you're an idiot if you leave a city becos you're frustated it doesn't make residential towers bigger than 150m... :p

then again maybe you should leave...

I think by the time the towers are ready to start getting approved in the NB link, the decision-maker of the day may choose to go higher/denser.
This will be because the urban landscape will have changed in a few short years,
city land may seem a lot more valuable than it is now and the need to increase city and inner city densities will have more momentum.
This is simply as shift in the mentality of Perth as a whole as it pushes past the 2 million mark over the next couple of years.

The tougher economic times I'd like to think that developers have a bit more leverage over the decision makers. I'd assume they could run the viability argument quite well in times like this...especially with so many towers going into receivership.

During the boom LG's made all kinds of requests from developers and usually got what they wanted.

Construction costs in Perth should come down over the next few years as big mining projects move from being under construction to steady state (freeing up labour). Hopefully the combination of lower building costs along with higher perceived value for inner city land will see the heights increased.

Not sure it will happen early enough for large parts of this project, but hoping this flows through into much taller buildings on the waterfront.

Construction costs in Perth should come down over the next few years as big mining projects move from being under construction to steady state (freeing up labour). Hopefully the combination of lower building costs along with higher perceived value for inner city land will see the heights increased.

Not sure it will happen early enough for large parts of this project, but hoping this flows through into much taller buildings on the waterfront.

Theres much more construction to come in the mining sector yet. More than currently.

i think you're an idiot if you leave a city becos you're frustated it doesn't make residential towers bigger than 150m... :p

then again maybe you should leave...

more along the lines of nothing ever happens in Perth and the fact it usually takes around 20 years.

Theres much more construction to come in the mining sector yet. More than currently.

Meh, I'm a bit doubtful about a number of projects. I don't think the mid west iron ore industry will get underway to any great extent and the port proposal will fall over.

I just don't think the economics of magnetite on the scale being proposed adds up in the long term, not when there is so much hematite just lying around.

Just some info from a PTA email...

Platform 6/7 Upgrade

On Sunday, 31 July Fremantle and Armadale C# services returned back to Platform 6/7 after most of the platform upgrade was completed. The ceiling frame at the eastern end of the platform is still being completed and the ceiling panels to be installed.

When passenger services switched back onto Platform 6/7 East, access to Platform 8 from within Perth Station and from the Western Concourse closed.

Platform 8 will be decommissioned prior to demolition work by the Perth City Link Rail Alliance to make way for the new Fremantle Line tunnel.



Western Concourse closure and removal

On Wednesday, 24 August, the William Street footbridge, known as the Western Concourse, which connects Roe and Wellington streets, will permanently close at the Roe Street end.

The southern end, including the Wellington Street stairs and escalator access to Platform 11, public toilets, and connection from the Wellington Street Bus Station to the southern-most escalator to Perth Station will remain open (see map).

Removing the Western Concourse allows the Fremantle Line to be relocated so train services can be maintained throughout the life of the rail project. The Fremantle Line is being relocated so the new tunnel can be constructed.


Roe St shared pedestrian and cycle path

To maintain pedestrian and cyclist safety, the shared path, which currently runs along the inside of the Horseshoe Bridge arm, will be relocated out onto Roe Street.

The relocated path will be built to City of Perth and Main Roads WA standards and will reduce westbound traffic down to one lane where Roe Street passes the Horseshoe Bridge and Perth Station (see map).

A pedestrian/cyclist crossing will be installed at the Roe-William street intersection, which will include a marked crossing and Disability Discrimination Act (DDA) compliant ramps and audible traffic signals.

The relocated path will be operational by early October 2011.


Timeline

* August 2011: Platform 8 closed for decommissioning.
* 24 August 2011: Western Concourse closed for removal.
* September 2011: Construction begins on the relocated Roe Street shared pedestrian and cycle path.
* October 2011: Relocated Roe Street shared pedestrian and cycle path opens.
* October 2011: Work begins on relocating the Fremantle Line.

Good to see something happening.. however has the tender been awarded for tunnel construction?

All done! John Holland/GHD won the contract for the rail works.

It is known as the Perth City Link Rail Alliance (http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/RailProject/PerthCityLinkRailAlliance/tabid/356/language/en-US/Default.aspx)

Hmm, hope it don't take forever
Though they do have some other rail projects going which might help :)

they've just added 3 new live feed cameras to the Perth City Link website, making a total of 4. :D Perth City Link > Live Feed (http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/perthcitylink/LiveFeed/tabid/347/language/en-AU/Default.aspx)

How the he'll do I get to the bike path on Wellington street from Roe on my bike? Going to have to use the horse shoe bridge...

use the cycle/footbrige between Perth Arena and the PEC.

Or barrack street bridge..

All done! John Holland/GHD won the contract for the rail works.

It is known as the Perth City Link Rail Alliance (http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/RailProject/PerthCityLinkRailAlliance/tabid/356/language/en-US/Default.aspx)

They sorted out their differences after NewMetroRail? :lol:

if they're all about sorting out their differences it should be called Perth Link Urban Rail Alliance

also known as the PLUR alliance





... I'll see myself out

http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/Portals/2/Images/PerthCityLink/pcl6.jpg
sauce (http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/perthcitylink/)

^^ Are the escalators leading down just to allow people to change platforms, or will they provide access to the underground station/bus station too? Any idea?

They will connect all the platforms at Perth Station with Perth Underground. Not with the bus station though.

Thats sooo awesome. :D

http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/LinkClick.aspx?link=images%2fpcl%2fpcl_staging_map_-_final.jpg&tabid=361&mid=1065&language=en-US
http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/RailProject/AbouttheRailProject/ChangestoPerthStation/PerthStationFinalLayout/tabid/361/language/en-US/Default.aspx

Unless there's something I don't know about the underground structures under the new plaza, they really should try to connect WSBS and Perth Station though. It really seems silly not to do so. Branch a corridor off the corner at the bottom of the stairs currently joining Perth station and Underground. Or an underpass from Raine Square.

But the roadway would be in the way - the WSBS platform will be a oval (sort of) - an island surrounded by road so you would have to go down under to go up - uneconomical to me.

I'd rather see people on the streets.

I think they will be counting on foot traffic to WSBS to activate the plaza.

Plus I don't think it is neccasary. If you are going from Perth Station you can walk directly out the east side of the station at the same level as the plaza and straight across to a WSBS entrance.

With the underground access to the platforms will the escalators and glass box near the Horseshoe Bridge get removed?

I've been wondering that too. I am guessing it will be removed considering there is no access from ground level there anyway.

That image showing how the trains will decline from the perspective of the platform seems to show free access to the plaza underneath the horse-shoe bridge...

...without any smart-rider checker things? Is that right?

With the underground access to the platforms will the escalators and glass box near the Horseshoe Bridge get removed?

The diagram isn't that clear but as far as I can see it looks like they'll keep that existing escalator/lift and it will operate as an entry/exit to Celebration Square and William St.

it will stay - however the glass walkway connection bit underneath the horseshoe will be removed. this will enable through pedestrian access from wellington st/perth station forecourt into city square underneath the bridge.

A question I've been meaning to ask about (related) to this.

The walkway linking the bus station and Raine Sq - is this staying or going? Because the bus station is going to be demolished so the bridge servers no purpose however if you look at theRaine Sq building it looks as though they've built an entrance around the bridge.

I really hope it's going or getting redone. Looks disgusting.
PS: I'm pretty sure Dilaz said it's going.

I believed in tha bridge-a!

That would make sense. Got think fourth dimensionally.

I thought it was going as well but next time your around have a close look on the Raine Sq side. It looks like they have built a proper doorway there.

it's a sliding glass door. I have a feeling it's a usable but temp entrance may be. When they started Raine noone had a clue as to the faith of that bridge so they probably just built around it.

I believed in tha bridge-a!

That would make sense. Got think fourth dimensionally.

Pretty sure it's staying until the bus station goes.

it's a sliding glass door. I have a feeling it's a usable but temp entrance may be. When they started Raine noone had a clue as to the faith of that bridge so they probably just built around it.

It is most definately a buddhist.

lol bloody auto correct

lol bloody auto correct

From your phone?

tab

probably been raised before, but as I am new, I was wondering if anyone knows if they are going to further sink the Joondalup line so as to maximise development in the link? Thought about this as I was taking the bus from Wellington today.

probably been raised before, but as I am new, I was wondering if anyone knows if they are going to further sink the Joondalup line so as to maximise development in the link?
They won't be doing that, but have mentioned the possibility of eventually building mixed-use development above the remaining exposed railway (between Milligan St and the freeway).

More details:
http://www.epra.wa.gov.au/Projects/Perth-City-Link/About-the-Project/Design/

cheers bud!

Congrats to the CityLink Alliance on the amount of information they are providing about the closure of the footbridge. Lots of new, clear, directional signage, and even 3 (that I saw) information people stationed at both sides of the bridge, plus another on the corner of William/Wellington next to 140, helping and directing people, and handing out pamphlets about the works.

They've done really well so far in terms of public communication, and 4 live webcams has got to be a first for a perth project so good on them!

^^ it's weird seeing people using tha horse-shoe bridge to walk around... "wow" moment, i never seen that many people use tha bridge... lol.

Congrats to the CityLink Alliance on the amount of information they are providing about the closure of the footbridge. Lots of new, clear, directional signage, and even 3 (that I saw) information people stationed at both sides of the bridge, plus another on the corner of William/Wellington next to 140, helping and directing people, and handing out pamphlets about the works.


I didn't take one, I felt a little superior for already knowing :lol: just joking

Its also good to see the Old entertainment centre is half gone and the bus lane down the side has been repaved out of the way of the railways. Progress is happening here people.

The coffee shops at the cultural centre may get some business too.

agree I go to Polly for tha coffee, it's good coffee... :)

someone said it's owned by the Tiger2 bitch but don't know if it's true.

That other coffee joint nearer the art gallery needs to stop burning stuff. When I pass by it there is often a really acrid smell.

All of this seems so short-sighted. (No change there)

All the platforms - everything from Barrack St to the Horseshoe Bridges needs to be undergound along with the east-bound tracks - up to and beyond McIver. There are three major blcoks of the City that cannot expand because of the railway.

Then, at the station....
lose that hideous 70's steel roof. Refurbish the old station building into retail and dining. And all the space behind it - a magnificent piazza linking Forest Place with the Arts prescinct, through the archway of the old station building.

Meanwhile, two levels below ground - Perth Central rail station.

It's the future...

Its not from the 70s and how do you propose to build all that while keeping a full functional station above?

Money is the main issue.

The latticework roof of the train station is totally uggo. Would be nice to replace it with a traditional arched roof.

Its not from the 70s and how do you propose to build all that while keeping a full functional station above?

Maybe with a method similar to how Spencer street station was turned into Southern Cross...?

It wouldn't be that hard.

Having the station underground while turning the current station area into a concourse with shops etc sounds like a good idea...but I agree with bestofperth in that it would cause too much disruption to services while its being built.

Building a new roof would be a good idea and could be done without closing the station completely.

^^But aint they upgrading the roof allready with the rail project?

They're saying that the roof will be upgraded/extended but I don't get the impression it will be drastically altered.

They should build a roof similar to Dreden Hbf.

http://www.designbuild-network.com/projects/dresdencentral/images/8-dresdencentral.jpg

Just build one simple, elegant arch and all will be OK.

Just found these details published on the PCL website:

Qtr 3 2011 Western Concourse closed for partial removal
Qtr 4 2011 Temporary Fremantle Line tracks completed
Qtr 1 2012 Tunnel construction begins
Qtr 2 2012 Pedestrian underpass construction begins
Qtr 4 2012 Platform 9 closed for upgrade and conversion into an island platform
Qtr 3 2013 New Platform 8/9 open for passengers
Qtr 4 2013 Pedestrian underpass operational
Qtr 2 2014 Fremantle Line tunnel operational

Source (http://www.pta.wa.gov.au/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=jBXGuBzu6qw%3d&tabid=478&mid=1283&language=en-AU)

They should build a roof similar to Dreden Hbf.

Just build one simple, elegant arch and all will be OK.

Unfortunately we live in Australia, a nation of tight-arses that rarely sees value in investing public money into aesthetics for utilitarian infrastructure. Though at least Perth's Central station is currently covered unlike Sydney's or Flinder's Street.

melbun?

melbun?

What like Melbourne Airport? :lol: No currently Melbourne is definitely more open to it than elsewhere in Australia. Thank god for their 2nd city syndrome with the more open international-mindset?

http://www.inmycommunity.com.au/news-and-views/local-news/Work-starts-on-link/7600822/


Work starts on link

29/Aug/2011

By Jessica Willoughby, Guardian Express


Comments:

It will be an easy walk once Northbridge and the City are linked.


A FOCUS on boosting train services during special events will result in a purpose-built platform becoming part of the State Government’s Perth City Link.
Works on the $360 million rail project began last week with the closure of the William Street footbridge.

Perth City Link rail alliance manager John Anderson said a section of the footbridge would be demolished to make way for plans to sink a stretch of the Fremantle line.

He said temporary tracks would be laid to ensure services continued during the construction period.

Pedestrians will be able to move between Northbridge and the city centre by using the Horseshoe Bridge, Milligan Street footbridge and the eastern concourse, which connects Forrest Place with the Perth Cultural Centre.

The changes would add 2.5 minutes to the average journey. When completed in three years time, Mr Anderson said people would be able to walk from the CBD to Northbridge.

“When finished, you’ll be able to step out of the Perth Underground and walk straight across to Northbridge – without having to use any elevators or escalators,” he said.

“This project is going to transform Perth and connect the city.”

A new “island” train platform would also be built facing Roe Street to service demand during special events.

Mr Anderson said the extra services would improve operational flexibility.

“Concerts, the Royal Show and especially during the footy season – the platform could be used every weekend.”

The construction of a pedestrian underpass would connect the Perth Underground train station.

Train services would run as normal, except for a change on the Midland to Fremantle service at the end of next year.

Passengers will have to change trains at the Perth station with a temporary Armadale to Fremantle service to operate.

Stage two of the link project, to build a new underground bus station, is expected to start in 2014.

Perth City Link development forges ahead as land sales begin

Portfolio: Planning

The State Government has called for expressions of interest in purchasing land in the Perth City Link - the most significant inner-city development opportunity in more than a century.

Planning Minister John Day said more than five hectares of prime land in the heart of the city was available for development to deliver a range of residential, commercial, retail and tourism facilities.

“To meet the challenges of the fastest population growth in the nation, Perth must continue to provide new opportunities for people to live and work in the city,” he said.

“The Perth City Link project will fundamentally transform the heart of Perth by changing the orientation of the city to connect the CBD with the entertainment precinct of Northbridge.

“Perth City Link will remove a 100-year old barrier in the city and deliver significant benefits including improved public safety, access and connectivity - all funding and statutory approvals for this project are in place and works are well under way on site.”

Mr Day said the Perth City Link will become the main driver of CBD accommodation beyond 2015 by providing more than 250,000sqm of new retail and commercial space and 1,650 new dwellings. In total, 5.2 hectares is available for development which has the potential to deliver more than 250,000sqm in gross floor area.

“The State Government is looking for developers with the appropriate experience and capacity to deliver high quality, environmentally sustainable designs and an active precinct for all West Australians to enjoy,” the Minister said.

“The investment by the State Government in this project is significant encompassing work to sink the rail line, develop an underground bus station, complete the new 15,500 seat Perth Arena, and deliver high quality public spaces such as City Square.

“In addition, a key outcome of the project is the delivery of much-needed hotel accommodation to meet the growing demands of the WA tourism and business markets.

“Perth City Link is one of a number of major redevelopment projects, including Perth Waterfront; Perth Cultural Centre; and Riverside, which are currently planned or under way across our city.

“This project is a collaboration of three levels of government: the Federal Government; the State Government led by agencies EPRA and the Public Transport Authority; and the City of Perth.”

Perth City Link has moved well into delivery phase of the project with demolition of the Perth Entertainment Centre and the commencement of works to sink a section of the Fremantle rail line. At the western end of the project, works are also being undertaken to create two development sites, upgrade critical services infrastructure and create a new public space.

Expressions of Interest are open until November 10 after which a shortlist of proponents will be invited to submit detailed proposals early next year. Developers and investors seeking more information about the sale can contact the Perth City Link project director on 9222 8000.

http://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.au/Pages/default.aspx?ItemId=143809&

http://www.epra.wa.gov.au/Documents/The-Link/Perth-City-Link-Sales-Brochure-Sep-2011.pdf

Lots of renders there. Who wants to do the honours of copy and pasting? I don't have the software here.

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/4127/82476354.jpg

http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/9907/91295179.jpg

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6964/63359583.jpg

yay. my new playground when i'm 40... thanks perth... :)


edit:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/crave1980/pcl2.jpg

by then you'd be able to afford paying $12 for a bottle of water.

yas!!!!!!!!! win! :p

It will be low density paradise for the Subiaco set.

and hopefully just as vibrant as subi centro

by then you'd be able to afford paying $12 for a bottle of water.

you wouldve been proud of me recently samboy, i refused to drink san pellegrino at lamonts (despite it being open already) and told the waiter it was because i thought the price was a ripoff, i insisted on tap. this is after we had spent $180 on 2 bottles of wine...

funnily enough he more or less agreed :lol:

im a bit nervous about becoming such a grumpy old fuck while in my 20s

and hopefully just as vibrant as subi centro

or Adelaide Tce

I am very proud!! The thing is I only became this grumpy a few years ago. If you get it out of your system now, it should be smooth sailing when you're in your 30's.

I see cynicism and grumpiness as a sign of intelligence and strength of character.

Fuck this "glass half full" bullshit.

Perth's glass is fucking empty.

Why so pessimistic? We have a lot to look forward to.

That's what I thought 5 years go.

But on a serious note, the next 5-10 years are probably going to be as big as it gets for Perth in terms of construction activity. Unfortunately we're so far behind the rest of the world I can't get too excited. And at the end of the day it will still be Perth in most other aspects. All good though, we CHOOSE to live here.

That's what I thought 5 years go.

spot on!

haha poor Dilaz.

There is a subtle line between pessimism and just being realistic.

samby and nate are realizing it won't be walking-frame/wheelchair friendly for them :p

Dilaz, hold that thought and come back to us after you've spent a year away working your new job.

Re bottled water, I always get tap water, even if I'm paying top dollar for my meal and wine at a Michelin starred restaurant.

Re cynicism, it keeps me sane.

samby and nate are realizing it won't be walking-frame/wheelchair friendly for them :p

yeah that too

Dilaz, hold that thought and come back to us after you've spent a year away working your new job.

Re bottled water, I always get tap water, even if I'm paying top dollar for my meal and wine at a Michelin starred restaurant.

Re cynicism, it keeps me sane.

haha awesome, fellow stingy ethno

i was thinking of starting a club, it'll be full of chinamen, south africans and greeks.

South Park - Season 15 Episode 7. A must watch for grumpy cunts. Definitely see samboy in this episode.

BTW I think you guys are way too harsh on Perth. We have a hell of a lot to offer and living is easy and enjoyable.

It's weird though, I travelled quite a lot when I was in my 20's and always glad to be back in Perth. In the past 8 years or so, whenever I go somewhere I dread coming back. I can't put my finger on it.

If you're young - leave, you won't miss anything.

dont like south park, i think you need to be white to "get it"

has always annoyed me more than it tickled me

It's weird though, I travelled quite a lot when I was in my 20's and always glad to be back in Perth. In the past 8 years or so, whenever I go somewhere I dread coming back. I can't put my finger on it.

feel youve stagnated?

feel youve stagnated?

True, getting very stale. Must get over laziness and geriatric urges and do something different.

I've dreaded coming back ever since I was in my teens and went away for just a week. I like coming back now, but the novelty wears off after about a week.

Aha may be that's what it is. Long stretches in Perth is a KILLER.

I think I just made up my mind to move back east.

new tourism slogan:

"Perth - it's good for about a week"

dont like south park, i think you need to be white to "get it"

has always annoyed me more than it tickled me

you just need to understand white culture and so on, which i'm sure you do? It's so incredibly awesome, every episode is done so well.

I'm not sure what people dislike so much about Perth. I know what I miss while living here but I know what I miss when I'm away. Theres a hell of a lot worse places to live than Perth.

Having said that I do agree there is something about Perth that puts me off at time. Can't put my finger on it either.

Lol Nate - that's actually not bad. Visitors can leave after a week, satisfied that they have seen all there is to see and not missed anything out!

Speaking of South Park, how good does the Broadway musical ''The Book of Mormon'' look. I was listening to some of the songs last night - absolutely hilarious. I wanted to see it when I go over but it's completely booked out until Novemeber!

I don't dislike Perth, in fact, I quite enjoy it... I also agree there are worse places to live....

There are however, a lot better places to live.

As Perth gets shitter, many other cities are getting better.

South Park is the greatest cartoon of our time. Better than the Simpsons IMO.

Acc- I know that but it's not like Perth is a stagnate city. It's been changing for the last 5 years. The CBD was such a dump pre-2006. Looking back I find it hard to believe what city life was like then, although I was young at the time.

All depends on what kind of things you are into Ryan. Personally, I'm not the outdoors type and can't stand hot weather so I'm pretty much screwed out of enjoying two of Perth's biggest positives. When I look at all of the kinds of things that I like to do during just a regular week, the fact of the matter is that there are lots of little things that just don't make the grade for me. I look at it this way, taking family out of the equation, and taking me, as an individual, coming from overseas wanting to move to Australia - Perth personally just wouldn't come into the equation. It would always be Melbourne or Sydney. Everyone's different, simple.

Having said that I do agree there is something about Perth that puts me off at time. Can't put my finger on it either.

I get the biggest hit in the immigration line. Combination of stale carpet, bogans (mostly) and the feeling that you're being watched (well you are).

PS: I know we're pissing all over the NBL thread. I'm sure it can get cleaned up past the pics.

Dilaz, yes it's moving forward a lot, but it's all the little things that aren't changing/moving backwards that count - the things that make a real difference to your day to day life.

I get the biggest hit in the immigration line. Combination of stale carpet, bogans (mostly) and the feeling that you're being watched (well you are).

...and customs officers wearing stubbies shorts ;)

South Park these days is much better than the Simpsons. The Simpsons has gotten so bad that I don't even watch it if it's on TV and I have nothing to do. In it's prime though, the Simpsons was great. When I do catch a repeat from back around the 4th season, I'm amazed at just how clever, political, social and witty it was. It's such a shame that they are just dragging it on.

Dilaz, yes it's moving forward a lot, but it's all the little things that aren't changing/moving backwards that count - the things that make a real difference to your day to day life.

What's not changing in your opinion? There's more to a city than liquor licensing regulation and retail trading hours. They're about the only things that are really holding us back.

I hate the current regimes of those things however to say that we have fewer bars, restaurants, taverns and pubs, cafes, shops ect than 5 years ago is a straight out lie. We do however have fewer nightclubs and that's something that will change once the fad of 'alcohol fuelled violence' goes away.

Biggest problem is the lack of density. That's what's killing business and that's why we pay and arm and a leg for shit service. Then again you don't need me to tell you that.

I don't care about liquor licensing or small bars, I just want to see more people LIVING when I'm out and about (and not just getting pissed)

It'll come. Hell, we barely have a critical mass of offices let alone residential. The trend towards apartment living is still in its infancy and probably will be for the rest of this decade.

Perhaps it's just that after I've travelled so much and now been in London for 2.5 years that parts of Perth that I'd just become accustomed to now seem worse. So perhaps it hasn't gone back in actuality, but rather in my perception.

There are lots of things that simply come with living in a smaller city as well, which I in no way claim is something that Perth can do anything about. Perth will always be geographically isolated, and it will always be smaller than, and a few steps behind, Melbourne and Sydney. That's just something that is inherent.

As I said before, it's more the kind of life that I personally want to live that Perth just doesn't offer. I prefer being somewhere where, each week, I'm looking at the gigs and shows that I have to miss out on because there's too much to see, rather than hanging out for the occasional thing that comes to town that I can see. I like being able to walk to the supermarket, gym, local bars, pubs and shops, I like being able to go out any night of the week and be surrounded by people, I like being able to hop on a plane and travel to European city 'x' on a random weekend for cheap, I like being able to grab a drink and take it outside and watch the world go by without someone telling me what I can and cannot drink and when I can and cannot drink it, I like being able to get into pretty much any venue, upmarket or not, wearing jeans, a t-shirt and good sneakers, I like being able to converse with all kinds of people from all over the world living such diverse lives, rather than constantly bump into the same people time and time again, I like living somewhere where there are no expectations on anyone to be like anything or live any kind of set life, I like living somewhere where day after day I realise that the more I know, the more I realise I don't know anything at all. I like in general, just being able to live the life that I enjoy without feeling pressured and told what I can and can't do.

Some of what I described Perth will never be able to offer, other things there's not reason why Perth can't offer it.

Like I said, perhaps it's more my perception after almost 3 years of the life I've been living, or perhaps not. I'll leave that to the peanut gallery to decide.

All depends on what kind of things you are into Ryan. Personally, I'm not the outdoors type and can't stand hot weather so I'm pretty much screwed out of enjoying two of Perth's biggest positives. When I look at all of the kinds of things that I like to do during just a regular week, the fact of the matter is that there are lots of little things that just don't make the grade for me. I look at it this way, taking family out of the equation, and taking me, as an individual, coming from overseas wanting to move to Australia - Perth personally just wouldn't come into the equation. It would always be Melbourne or Sydney. Everyone's different, simple.

Yeah fair enough. I guess some of things I like Perth are literally world class for.

I used to think like that a lot though but when you really think about it what are you really missing out on in Perth? Sometimes I just think its perception because when it comes to everyday life what does Perth not have? Theres a whole bunch of new bars opened up and I haven't been to half of them and I consistently learn about new restaurants and cafe's and have a list as long as my arm to go to and haven't even made close to a dent in it.

BTW I'm not having a go, I'm genuinely trying to see exactly what it is that we miss out on in Perth.

I get the biggest hit in the immigration line. Combination of stale carpet, bogans (mostly) and the feeling that you're being watched (well you are).

PS: I know we're pissing all over the NBL thread. I'm sure it can get cleaned up past the pics.

Its definitely a feeling though isn't it. I mean those are very minor things really but theres something bigger, an atmosphere or a feeling.

Fair enough. You live in the centre of the universe though.

Biggest problem is the lack of density. That's what's killing business and that's why we pay and arm and a leg for shit service. Then again you don't need me to tell you that.

I don't care about liquor licensing or small bars, I just want to see more people LIVING when I'm out and about (and not just getting pissed)

I disagree with that. Look at South Perth, densest part of Perth with very little to do. Add East Perth next, still very little.

Mt Lawley, NB, even Leedy. Not very dense, plenty to do.

Perhaps it's just that after I've travelled so much and now been in London for 2.5 years that parts of Perth that I'd just become accustomed to now seem worse. So perhaps it hasn't gone back in actuality, but rather in my perception.

There are lots of things that simply come with living in a smaller city as well, which I in no way claim is something that Perth can do anything about. Perth will always be geographically isolated, and it will always be smaller than, and a few steps behind, Melbourne and Sydney. That's just something that is inherent.

As I said before, it's more the kind of life that I personally want to live that Perth just doesn't offer. I prefer being somewhere where, each week, I'm looking at the gigs and shows that I have to miss out on because there's too much to see, rather than hanging out for the occasional thing that comes to town that I can see. I like being able to walk to the supermarket, gym, local bars, pubs and shops, I like being able to go out any night of the week and be surrounded by people, I like being able to hop on a plane and travel to European city 'x' on a random weekend for cheap, I like being able to grab a drink and take it outside and watch the world go by without someone telling me what I can and cannot drink and when I can and cannot drink it, I like being able to get into pretty much any venue, upmarket or not, wearing jeans, a t-shirt and good sneakers, I like being able to converse with all kinds of people from all over the world living such diverse lives, rather than constantly bump into the same people time and time again, I like living somewhere where there are no expectations on anyone to be like anything or live any kind of set life, I like living somewhere where day after day I realise that the more I know, the more I realise I don't know anything at all. I like in general, just being able to live the life that I enjoy without feeling pressured and told what I can and can't do.

Some of what I described Perth will never be able to offer, other things there's not reason why Perth can't offer it.

Like I said, perhaps it's more my perception after almost 3 years of the life I've been living, or perhaps not. I'll leave that to the peanut gallery to decide.

I wish you bullet pointed those items :)

Travel is a huge thing and can agree with that.

But if you want to live a life where you can walk everywhere there are places in Perth where you can live.

I disagree with that. Look at South Perth, densest part of Perth with very little to do. Add East Perth next, still very little.

Mt Lawley, NB, even Leedy. Not very dense, plenty to do.

May be I didn't phrase it correctly. I meant 'people', 'activity', 'bustle'. ie Sign of LIFE. Generally speaking density/critical mass will create that but yeah there are part of perth that are denser but dead.

May be I didn't phrase it correctly. I meant 'people', 'activity', 'bustle'. ie Sign of LIFE. Generally speaking density/critical mass will create that but yeah there are part of perth that are denser but dead.

I know what your saying but even small cities like Dublin that are quite low density have a lot of activity. I guess it has a lot to do with attitude. For some reason when I was in London I couldn't give a shit about big screen TVs, cars, jet ski's etc. but now I'm home in Perth its higher on my agenda.

Its also a stalemate situation too isn't it. You won't go out because no one else is out and so adding to the problem. I did go out in Leederville a few months ago on a Tuesday and it was quite busy - Jus Burger packed and a lot of people out.

You know what, I haven't been out of Perth for 4.5 years (to anywhere decent). I may have forgotten what a real city feels like.

I don't dislike Perth, in fact, I quite enjoy it... I also agree there are worse places to live....

There are however, a lot better places to live.

As Perth gets shitter, many other cities are getting better.

I have to agree. As I'm getting older, I can see the positives to Perth. It's such an easy place to live in, the sky is always blue, it has some stunning suburbs and the river is amazing. But when I went back I noticed that a lot of the cool young people were missing, it was like a generation gap. The people I'd partied with, and the bands that I'd watched, had packed up and left for other cities. I think the mid 2000's were probably a golden age for Perth.

Re South Perth and East Perth it's demographics too. We need a greater mix of people in the key districts - people who genuinely want an inner city lifestyle rather than those just looking do downsize and retain a quiet life.

Also Ryan, it's true that a part of it is psychological. For example, when I'm going up a set of escalators and walking down a corridor between the gates and the tube platform, I love seeing ads for all of the plays, exhibitions and things that are on, and seeing that Hollywood Star X is performing in play Y etc. Am I going to see most of those plays - nope, but I still get a buzz from being in the thick of it. What can Perth learn from this - something that I raised after my trip in November last year. There's actually quite a bit of stuff happening in Perth but nothing is advertised. Relax those laws and get some more banners and signs around the place letting people know what's going on. I really had to look to find out what was going on in Perth culturally - the city should be more ''in your face''. Make people aware that there's stuff going on whether they are looking for it or not.

What you've just described is more of a small city issue rather than a specifically perth problem. People want to move on, it's a fact of life and no amount of density can stop that.

I know what your saying but even small cities like Dublin that are quite low density have a lot of activity. I guess it has a lot to do with attitude. For some reason when I was in London I couldn't give a shit about big screen TVs, cars, jet ski's etc. but now I'm home in Perth its higher on my agenda.

Its also a stalemate situation too isn't it. You won't go out because no one else is out and so adding to the problem. I did go out in Leederville a few months ago on a Tuesday and it was quite busy - Jus Burger packed and a lot of people out.

You know what, I haven't been out of Perth for 4.5 years (to anywhere decent). I may have forgotten what a real city feels like.

Dublin's not really low density as such though. Lots of apartments going up (worth nothing now since the economy tanked!) and lots of terraced 3/4 story places about with a good residential/office/retail/entertainment mixture in their zones.

Re the TV stuff it's so true. I'd always be getting a new game for my Xbox back home but these days, the last time I bought a game was over a year ago, and it's still in the packaging. You might not get a big property here but it's not needed as your place almost becomes just a place to sleep and relax in - for everything else you leave the house.

As for not leaving for 4.5 years - go for a holiday dude!

I have to agree. As I'm getting older, I can see the positives to Perth. It's such an easy place to live in, the sky is always blue, it has some stunning suburbs and the river is amazing. But when I went back I noticed that a lot of the cool young people were missing, it was like a generation gap. The people I'd partied with, and the bands that I'd watched, had packed up and left for other cities. I think the mid 2000's were probably a golden age for Perth.

So true. Most of the interesting people that I grew up with in Perth have left or are planning to leave in the not to distant future. The only ones left are in the ''married/mortgage/kids'' cycle.

...except Sanj. He is an anomaly.

What you've just described is more of a small city issue rather than a specifically perth problem. People want to move on, it's a fact of life and no amount of density can stop that.

Yup. I'm a lot less negative in relation to Perth than I was when I left. I've accepted the fact that I'm just not a small city person and that a lot of what I used to hate about Perth isn't Perth-specific at all.

Very, very good point Acc. There is no "feel" about whats happening in Perth unlike in London you are overwhelmed with what is happening there.

And your definitely right, its not like there isn't anything happening, its just not known.

i'm disagreeing with all you bitchez... our friday night after work bar hops have been really enjoyable... i'm encountering something new every time i go back to tha same venue... it seems to cycle thru different types of people now that you wouldn't usually see in tha same place to say a few years ago...

i agree you don't get tha headache trying to decide where to go, but i think that's fine... there's still a lot of places in perth i haven't been to or do go... last week i had a friend back from san fran and we loitered around cottesloe/nedlands/claremont... fvck'd if i remember what tha places were but i've come to realise there are places...

if you're living in perth, as long you get out and experience tha world, it's not all that bad... and i think that's tha important part, if you travel tha world and bring tha home with you... you instantly have a large part of tha population that has a different view of how things can be and should be and i think that creates a change in behaviour...

Dublin's not really low density as such though. Lots of apartments going up (worth nothing now since the economy tanked!) and lots of terraced 3/4 story places about with a good residential/office/retail/entertainment mixture in their zones.

Re the TV stuff it's so true. I'd always be getting a new game for my Xbox back home but these days, the last time I bought a game was over a year ago, and it's still in the packaging. You might not get a big property here but it's not needed as your place almost becomes just a place to sleep and relax in - for everything else you leave the house.

As for not leaving for 4.5 years - go for a holiday dude!

When I was there there was no towers, all 3/4 stories. Anyway it was livelier than South Perth which is much denser.

I lived in such a small flat but you just don't notice it. Hmmm getting that nolstalgic feeling.

I know, I know! I am seriously considering Singapore for F1 this year but procrastinating. Have a big trip planned for the US in April, if my mate sorts his shit out.

South Perth isn't very dense. Sure, there's highrise but it's not really true density when they're all full/half floor apartments.

When I was there there was no towers, all 3/4 stories. Anyway it was livelier than South Perth which is much denser.

It's amazing how much new stuff is there. A mate of mine from Perth has been living there for about 4 years, there's an entire high rise district full of apartments and office towers that wasn't there only a few years ago in the old docks area. Ironically, this was not the most vibrant part of the city at all, but I imagine it hugely increased the inner city population, and it's all walking distance from the Temple Bar etc.

haha awesome, fellow stingy ethno

i was thinking of starting a club, it'll be full of chinamen, south africans and greeks.

A Pakistani colleauge of mine was very impressed when I bought cupcakes for the finance team and had them stored in an empty ice cream container rather than a bought storage container lol.