Note by moderator erbse: This thread can be used for any requests about the life in Germany, immigration, moving here, the best places to live and relating.

Please keep in mind: Stay friendly (both Germans and foreigners), try to keep it in English and don't post any xenophobic stuff, spam or other questionable things. Thanks :)


Sidenote: We had 2 other threads like this (Where to live in Germany? (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=618988) & Emigration to Germany (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=591554)). You can have a look at them as well, but beware: They turned into some trollfest later on, so we'll keep it civilized here.


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I'm a New Zealander planning to move to Germany in 2010.

I get a little worried though, with people making such a big deal about racial issues, who has a better country etc.

For people like me, going to another country isn't about making money and living the high life, it's about having some valuable experiences and meeting interesting people from other cultures.

I plan to move to Bonn, because of the various institutions it has, the small size of the city, and the proximity to major German and other European centres.

I could have easily chosen Berlin, Frankfurt or Munich (all places to which I have been) but opted for somewhere (hopefully) less intense.

Is it a mistake for me to come to Europe and not just be looking to make money?

A mistake? Absolutely not.

Keep in mind that many of the people on this forum who rave on about who has the better country are nothing more than kids. You will find most Germans you meet here to be completely different and will have a fond respect for other countries including New Zealand. There are cultural differences though, and many things which a New Zealander my see as a positive attribute may be somewhat surprised that a German may see negatively.

As for racial issues, you will find German's to also be very tolerant people. Like anywhere, immigration can be an issue to some people, though in Germany where there are people who are not favourable of immigrants, it is usually leaning towards mass or illegal immigration from developing countries or the Turkish population. For the first part it is unpopular for some people because of many issues such as those who fear they take other working class jobs for less money, or exploit the social services of this country. Regarding Turkish people it is usually due to their extremely high numbers here and how many of them exclude themselves from German culture.

That said, it rarely resembles racism and I know from my experience that New Zealand has their own issues along similar though of course different lines.

What are your main reasons for coming to Germany? What do you hope to find here? Are you prepared to be so far from your family and friends? Are you prepared for the winters? (well, if you come from the South Island you won't find it that much different). Do you intend a permanent move, long term or just for a short period?

That said of course, there are plenty of wonderful things in this country. Besides feeling considerably safer than NZ, it has better shopping, great culture and architecture, fantastic beer and there is the bonus that you can fly, drive or take the train to more cities in a short period of time than most New Zealanders can imagine. A flight to London is but an hour away, Paris even less. Amsterdam is just a short hop on a train. It really is amazing.

Bonn is a pleasant city, though as you say, very small. It is still a nice place to live and such a short distance from the much bigger Cologne that in NZ it would be considered part of the same city (17minutes by train). It is effectively like living in the Eastern suburbs of Auckland though of course with a downtown all of it's own. Just to put it in perspective though, I have read that within an hour's drive from Cologne there are more than 20million people. Imagine that where you live now. Yet, I can assure you that you will not feel crowded in Bonn.

Being a smaller city though, you will not have such an international feel as you would in say Hamburg, Berlin or Frankfurt. This means that your German language skills are more important. In a place like Frankfurt, you could easily get by entirely in English, but this will not be the case in Bonn.

If you need any advice or have any questions don't hesitate to ask them here. I've lived in New Zealand and know the differences between these two countries and I am also an immigrant here. I'll be happy to help you out.

^^ well, thanks so much for your reply, very informative

although I wouldn't say Europe is any safer than NZ, that isn't really a concern of mine

I'm prepared for the weather, and the distance - I lived in Prague for half a year in 2008, and found the experience very rewarding, although the language barrier there was difficult

I'm not worried about my German language skills, I studied it a university, and have visited Germany and Austria with no problems

to be so close to so many people but still have a small town feel, is exactly why I find Bonn so appealing,

I plan to spend about 10 years living away from NZ, and have been preparing a number of options for employment to keep myself covered financially, the current depression is causing me some concern at the moment though...

do you mind me asking where you are from originally? what were you doing in NZ?

^^ well, thanks so much for your reply, very informative

Not a problem. As a expat now living in germany and having made that particlular move, as well as living in your part of the world for a while, I'll be happy to answer any of your questions.


although I wouldn't say Europe is any safer than NZ, that isn't really a concern of mine

It certainly shouldn't be a consideration, as both parts of the world are generally safe. But you shouldn't fall in the trap of bundling "Europe" into one basket. Afterall, it is a massive place and some places are safer than others. As for safety, as having lived in both country's I will say that I personally feel safer in Frankfurt than in Auckland. Figures do reflect this as well with Germany having 1.4183 assaults registered per 1000people placing it 26th in the world and NZ having 7.47881 assaults per 1000, at no.7 in the world. Of course, these statistics may be inaccurate because of different ways these cases are registered in each country, but that aside I just feel safer here and here about much less crime.


I'm prepared for the weather, and the distance - I lived in Prague for half a year in 2008, and found the experience very rewarding, although the language barrier there was difficult

That's good. I personally enjoy the winter and the change of seasons. I love it when it snows, and have no problems when the temperature drops below 0°, but then I love it when the first sign of Spring comes. The summers here are very nice and can be much hotter than in New Zealand.


to be so close to so many people but still have a small town feel, is exactly why I find Bonn so appealing,

Then it should be a good city choice for you. One of the interesting things is how the culture and traditions can change in such a short distance. For instance, drink a beer in a pub in Bonn and then compare with how different that is 20minutes away in Cologne, and then travel another 20minutes north to Dusseldorf and the beer is completely different again.


I plan to spend about 10 years living away from NZ, and have been preparing a number of options for employment to keep myself covered financially, the current depression is causing me some concern at the moment though...

I always find it odd when people plan something like a 10year gap living in another country. For me, I just buy one way tickets. I've done this many times and lived in a few different country's in my lifetime. And just leave again when I feel for another change. But I guess everyone is different. I don't know how long I will live in Germany, maybe for life this time around. Afterall, I got married here and that changes things a lot.


do you mind me asking where you are from originally? what were you doing in NZ?

I'm Australian, but have lived in NZ on a couple of occasions for long periods. Both growing up as a child, and also came back as an adult to work there. It's a lovely country and I think Auckland is a very interesting city. Though to be honest I couldn't live in Australia or NZ again. For different reasons, though one is that I am so happy in Europe right now. NZ is a lovely place to live, but I need something bigger and not so isolated.

I always find it odd when people plan something like a 10year gap living in another country. For me, I just buy one way tickets. I've done this many times and lived in a few different country's in my lifetime. And just leave again when I feel for another change. But I guess everyone is different. I don't know how long I will live in Germany, maybe for life this time around. Afterall, I got married here and that changes things a lot.

it's not like a concrete plan, when i say about 10 years, i mean, I'd be happy with 5 or 20, I will be buying a one way ticket and it all depends what happens as to how long i stay

it's so interesting getting other people's perspectives on things...

it's not like a concrete plan, when I say about 10 years, I mean, I'd be happy with 5 or 20, I will be buying a one way ticket and it all depends what happens as to how long I stay

it's so interesting getting other people's perspectives on things...

I think you're going to have a great time. A big change like this is so full of new experiences that at least for the first year you will be very high spirits. After the first year though, many expats start to miss their friends and family, especially when you come from so far away. It's not like you can make a 1hour cheap flight back to the UK to catch up every few weeks. But as you have experience living abroad you will be more prepared for this than many others.

One thing that makes it a bit easier for some is to get English TV. You can buy a sat reciever and get all the TV straight from the UK without any subscription costs, though it's best to talk to someone who's done it already as the sat boxes sold in Germany are not as suitable as the ones you can pick up from the UK. The simple fact is, that with all the wonderful things Germany has to offer, good television is not one of them. For a start, they ruin everything by dubbing and what they ruin is just crap TV anyway. But I would recommend waiting after the 1st year as German TV, crap as it is, is a great way to brush up on your German language skills.

Choosing the right apartment is also another difference from NZ. Here, if you want a "house" you will need to move out into the metro area. Metro area's in germany usually consist of picturisque towns and villages surrounding the city and in the countryside. They are very popular with commuters who have families. Though pretty that they are, they are also quite boring. In the city, you will have a choice of an Altbau apartment, modern apartment or post war. I recommend to stay clear of the post war apartments unless you really are on a budget. These are clearly identified as the ugly cheap looking apartments in between the older ones that were rushed up to house people after the war. They are very poorly made, usually resembling shoe boxes inside but are the cheapest.

Altbau's are the most sort after because they have so much character due to their age. This of course means they maybe the most expensive, but there are still many within lower budgets. Modern apartments can also be nice and are mid range between the post war rubbish and Altbau's. Few apartments except for the modern ones have lifts unlike other country's such as France, so keep in mind lugging up the crates of beer if you move into the 5th floor (though I did notice more lifts in Berlin, maybe this is an eastern Germany thing).

Renting is a real hassle in Germany. They do some things backwards here. For instance, before moving into an apartment, many places ask for at least the first month up front (some more than one month). My memory from Australia was two weeks, but maybe that has changed now). Also, if you find the apartment through a real estate, they will charge you, not the owner. And they often charge around a months rent as well. So, besides you're first month rent, you may need another month for the deposit, and a third month for the real estate. Back in Australia this was the other way around. Besides a small $17 fee to the new tennant, the real estate charged the owner of the flat for finding the tennant, not the tennant who has already done the work finding the real estate. Rented apartments usually are empty of course, but many are completely empty including no kitchen, so you will be expected to install a full kitchen (sick, cupboards, oven etc) when moving in, which can cost a lot of money. In some rented apartments you will also need to put in flooring and all light fittings and be expected to move everything out again (including your brand new kitchen) when you leave - at your own cost! So, moving into a rented apartment can be very expensive.

German's are all used to this and think it's normal. They also stay for obvious reasons in a rented apartment for a long time, as the cost of moving is very expensive.

Oh, they also expect you to paint the apartment when you leave and many rental contracts demand that you use a professional service (and check your reciept that you do) which can cost a lot of money. I have been to various viewings when I was looking for apartments and you could see the shock on new British expat faces when the real estate told them this.... sort of "What! you expect me to pay for your fee, and me to pay for a kitchen and paint the place!?", but yes.

Though you maybe lucky and find an apartment with an installed kitchen and bathroom, don't expect any light fittings unless it is a furnished apartment. These will have everything installed but Generally cost more.

I found a furnished place myself, which suited me perfectly as I had just arrived and had nothing with me. Over the years, I moved the owner's furniture into the celler and replaced with our own.

If you want to buy, well, here you generally need around 40% deposit. Crazy really. Just an hour's flight away, you used to be able to get home loans on 0% deposit, at least before the credit crunch.

Oh, last tip for the day, get an EC card. Open up a bank account before coming to Germany. It is so much easier. So, go to an office in Auckland for a German bank and they will set up your account and have everything ready for when you arrive. If you wait until you come here, you may find it extremely difficult as you won't have any existing German bank accounts they can use as a reference. Apply for an EC card which is a bit like your normal ATM card but with credit. Credit cards such as Visa or Mastercard exist in Germany but very few places accept them here. Don't even think of walking into a restaurant or even a supermarket with only your Visa card. It's like a credit card desert here. So odd. But get one anyway as you can still use it to order CD's or whatever from the Internet (buying from the UK is much cheaper for CD's, DVD's than Germany)

Question: Are you coming here on an EU Passport?

Hope these tips come in helpful

^^
Yes, Germany is a credit card desert but you can basically pay everywhere (except maybe most restaurants) with the EC-Card, so that isn't much of a problem at all. Just a different type of plastic in your wallet...

Another suggestion:
Especially if you're younger, did you consider a shared flat? As Bonn has quite a large university, there should be lots of. You generally need much less furniture (maybe just a cheap IKEA bed an a desk) or even nothing at all. The financial stuff tends to be easier as well. (e.g. when you apply for "Zwischenmiete" (the owner of the room isn't in town and rents his room for that limited time, often when he's going abroad or does an internship)).
But the main advantage is that you easily can practice your German, get used to our culture and meet locals (and feel less alone in the beginning). I lived in Spain in a Spanish shared flat and I realized that it helped me a lot to speak about all the basic stuff in Spanish without exceptions to learn the language in a proper way.

I want to emigrate to Germany. Where? Soory for my English. My German isn't better.

If you emigrate to Germany you should know that people will demand integration from you, every step you make. And also even the smallest rest of Polish accent will make people treat you different, for they know you are a foreigner. This is not nationalism, its human behaviour. You should be concious that many Polish born "Germans" have identity problems in adult life, and also problems to socialize with German groups. The easiest way to find German friends would be on a Ger university. If you dont find German friends, you will never come out of the Polish bubble, never identify with Germany, and never properly learn the language which is the minimum required to get a good paid job.

Sorry if I hurt someones feelings, but thats what I feel about Poles in Germany

^ :yes:

I just opened this thread by moving posts to have a central place to discuss matters like living in and moving to Germany. I moved the 2 similar threads Where to live in Germany? (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=618988) & Emigration to Germany (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=591554) to the Café Achteck, to keep it tidy and civilized here now.

Please pay attention to the 1st post in this thread as well. Cordial thanks :)

What is with scietists (chemistry, phisyics etc.) in berlin? Are there good jobs and salaries

^^ There are many jobs in the biotechnology, pharmacology and chemistry in Berlin. For physicists who want to work in the industry it is less good, as there are not so many manufacturers nearby.

So where will you move to, miau?

Sorry to interject, but this topic is quite interesting. Germany has been a very interesting country and I had (or still have) dream/fantasy/hallucination of moving there. But I am not sure if there are opportunities due to crisis, and the things I read here.

It depends on what you learned/are learning. So, if you tell us what you're doing maybe we can help.
There are cities with 5% unemployment rate, regions with full employment or regions in east-germany where the unemployment is extremely high yet there are shitloads of jobs for certain job-clusters. As I said, it highly depends on what you plan to do.

Before we move to personal details, is there a place for foreign workers in Germany? I am pertaining to acceptance by the local populace, are they supporting sponsorships, working visa, etc.

I know Germany is an "open market", but the "job market" could be a different story altogether (conservatively traditional?). Therefore, what I do, or what I'm good at, might not matter if the answers to above are "negative".

Well anyway, these could seem as basic questions that you might refer me to the German Embassy website instead. :lol:

What are the fininancial support options for so called further education students (16-19), are these some kind of grants or some kind of regular payments depending on family income ?

Age 16-19? From the government:

Children at that age get Kindergeld (164 €/month for first and second child, 170€ for third, 195€ for fourth and beyond), independant of parents' income.

School children living in a separate household from the parents can from grade 10 on in theory apply for BAFöG, currently 383 Euro/month plus maximum 72 Euro support on rent, as long as either 1) there is no suitable school within reach of your parents' home, 2) you are married or 3) you have a kid of your own.

very valuable thread, but i'm wonder why the students from abroad are called ausländisch Studenten but not international students?

What would be the difference?

We call it either inländisch or ausländisch in contrary to national and international. A chinese who graduated on a german school would be called a "Bildungsinländer" (Bildung = education) even though he doesn't have a german passport.

What would be the difference?

We call it either inländisch or ausländisch in contrary to national and international. A chinese who graduated on a german school would be called a "Bildungsinländer" (Bildung = education) even though he doesn't have a german passport.

that's really good to see, thanks

very valuable thread, but i'm wonder why the students from abroad are called ausländisch Studenten but not international students?

Because from a german position they are from the "Ausland". That's just words.
Thankfully, Germany has not fully adopted the English/American terms for everything.

There is a high chance that I will leave Frankfurt by the end of zis year.

My position will be transferred in NRW, and I'll have the choice to live either in Cologne or in Düsseldorf.
I don't know which city is best for me, I believe I can find a nice new home either in one or the other. People tell me Cologne is younger, Düsseldord is nicer, Cologne may have a bigger Frenchie community, Düsseldorf is rather cheaper...

I need your help!

I will be working in Leverkusen, so it makes sense to say that I should be either rather in the North of Cologne or in the South of Düsseldorf (from I can see on the map, I will take the A59 to get to work).

Could you please tell me which Viertel I should avoid and which ones I should have a closer look at? Ideally : parking possible, public transport, nice and "alive", close to park/Rheinufer for jogging is also a big plus, ...

Any tips welcome! :cheers:

Don't have much time left, so I'll make it short: Take Düsseldorf.


Perhaps I'm going to führ this aus a little later.

Gay --> Cologne,
Japanese --> D-dorf,
to fulfill the common clichées. ;)

Gay --> Cologne,
Japanese --> D-dorf,
to fulfill the common clichées. ;)

I heard that already :lol:

I am 100% straight and 100% non-Japanese.

Choosing the city is one thing, then I would have to pick a district/neighborhood.

International and National are German words too. I think National is not used for students as it sounds too nationalistic. So we better kept inländisch and ausländisch.

Whatever city you prefer, maybe you could just tell me in which part of the city I should live (or absolutely avoid). I am planning to spend 600~650€ warm for the Miete.
For example, Friedrichstadt in Düsseldorf seems to be well situated. But I have no idea whether it's schrecklich or nice.

No need to answer in English, as long as you don't over-engineer your sentences :lol:

To cut this German-English-mix crap, it's is domestic/national = einheimisch/national and foreign/international = ausländisch/international. Period.

We use the term foreigners ("Ausländer") for immigrated people, exchange students etc and locals ("Einheimische") for natives and naturalized citizens.

To cut this German-English-mix crap, it's is domestic/national = einheimisch/national and foreign/international = ausländisch/international. Period.

We use the term foreigners ("Ausländer") for immigrated people, exchange students etc and locals ("Einheimische") for natives and naturalized citizens.

That's not correct. Ausländer is only correctly used for people without German passport. But some (racist) people even use it for Germans with black skin or Asian heritage.

That's what I said. Please read carefully.

Foreigners ("Ausländer") are immigrants, tourists, exchange students, persons seeking political asylum etc.

Domestic people ("Einheimische/Inländer") are natives and naturalized citizens.

I don't claim being an immigrant means being naturalized. One can immigrate to Germany (via valid visa, Green Card ...) without bearing German citizenship.

Hi!
As I'm studying in Cologne at the moment, my advise would be the following:
In the north-west of Cologne (like Chorweiler or Longerich) there are no nice districts (except of some more rural areas like Worringen), and the nice areas of the north-east (like Duennwald or Dellbrueck) are too expensive I think. So I would recomment Duesseldorf's south (like Benrath or Garath), where you find a nice cityscape and affordable apartments, at least in some areas. Also, you have a great transport connection. :-)

I would prefer any rhenish city to Berlin, btw.. ;-)

The easy answer is neither Cologne nor Düsseldorf. The city with the highest quality of life in NRW is Bonn (and maybe Münster) and is conveniently located close to Cologne (and far enough from the overpopulated Ruhrpott).

It's a very green family-friendly university city with beautiful old neighborhoods and a charming downtown area. Bonn is, however, not an insider tip anymore (how can it be as the former capital?). This means the city has attracted a lot of wealthy residents and is actually quite expensive (no surprise with big companies such as Deutsche Post, Telekom or Solarworld in its vicinity). With the university around, the city also can have a very young feel with a rich cultural life.

The Südstadt or the area around the Poppelsdorfer Allee in Bonn are by far the nicest areas. As to running: It couldn't be better. The Rhein river stretch has a great path all the way to the lush Rheinauen park.

So why am I telling you not to move to Cologne or Düsseldorf? Because many people who work in those two cities actually live in Bonn for the above reasons.

I am sure Bonn is a very attractive city but as I said I am going to work in Leverkusen, and I'd like to avoid wasting 2 hours per day sitting in my car in stop'n go mode on the A3 (which may happen anyway)

I believe 90% of my future colleagues live in either K or D. Although I am not talking from personal experience, it looks like Bonn is not an option.

Do you have to go by car at all costs? Public transport does really well in this area.
It doesn't take 2 hours from Bonn to Leverkusen per train.

My advice would be Cologene. Imo one of the liveliest Cities in Germany with an all around great atmosphere. It definitely feels bigger and more urban than Düsseldorf and Frankfurt. A nice place to live would be the "belgisches Viertel", if you can afford living there...

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgisches_Viertel

So I would recomment Duesseldorf's south (like Benrath or Garath), where you find a nice cityscape and affordable apartments, at least in some areas.

Are you serious?
Benrath: Definitely yes. Nice neighbourhood, very good transportation. You can even take the train (S-Bahn or Regionalbahn) and will be in Leverkusen within 15 minutes.
But Garath is one of the worst Ghettos you can find in a west-german town. Instead of recommending it for living I'd rather recommend you not even entering this district. :ohno:

Well, I moved to Cologne half a year ago. It's definitely bigger, more urban and livelier than Dusseldorf. It's also way cheaper. On the other hand it's butt-ugly. Everything here is uglier than in Dusseldorf. The City, the parks, heck even the Rhine is a fart-version of Dusseldorf's.
If you really have to choose between K and D, I can only recommend you Cologne because of the nicer people and the lifelier town in general and because it's cheaper. Let alone that Leverkusen is only minutes away and you won't miss a thing when coming from Frankfurt.

In cologne, try the districts with many students like Lindenthal, Ehrenfeld and so on. But actually every district within the city-rings is good to go. Everything is pretty well scattered around the city and the ring but it's still not expensive there.

I am sure Bonn is a very attractive city but as I said I am going to work in Leverkusen, and I'd like to avoid wasting 2 hours per day sitting in my car in stop'n go mode on the A3 (which may happen anyway).

Bonn is a 30 minute drive from Leverkusen, so the commuting wouldn't be so bad (you would only be on the A3 for 8 km of the stretch). You'd also have at least a 20-25 minute commute coming from Düsseldorf or Cologne, so the difference in travel time is very small, if not negligible.

Trust me, once you've seen Bonn and compared it to Cologne/Düsseldorf, the difference in flair (much more relaxed) and people who live there is considerable.

I suggest you at least pay Bonn a visit and then make up your mind.

^ Fully agreed. Give der Stadt a chance, Bender! Kampfy may act this out further, he's studying in Bonn.

I'd also choose Bonn ;)

Ist Köln wirklich so potthäßlich? Ich meine, Düsseldorf ist doch schon nicht gerade eine Schönheit -- als Stadt quasi der Beweis, daß viel Geld nicht immer Hand in Hand mit guten Geschmack geht (Düsseldorf ist in der Hinsicht gewissermaßen die Antithese zu München).

Bonn ist die einzige lebenswerte Stadt im Rheinland, Münster die Einzige in Westfalen. Im Zweifelsfall hilft nur noch das Bundesland zu wechseln.

^ Wollte ich auch schon schreiben, hatte dann aber mit Rücksicht auf einige Forumer nicht die Eier dazu.

Wir dürfen keine Rücksicht auf die anderen NRWler hier im Forum nehmen. Es geht um Benders Zukunft! Die Wahrheit muss ausgesprochen werden.

Thanks to all of you.

I have some time before I move to visit the cities and make up my own mind.

Ist Köln wirklich so potthäßlich? Ich meine, Düsseldorf ist doch schon nicht gerade eine Schönheit -- als Stadt quasi der Beweis, daß viel Geld nicht immer Hand in Hand mit guten Geschmack geht (Düsseldorf ist in der Hinsicht gewissermaßen die Antithese zu München).

Ja, Köln ist tatsächlich potthässlich. Ist jetzt auch nicht so schlimm, da die Qualitäten Kölns ganz woanders liegen. Ich persönlich wohne hier trotz allem eigentlich recht gerne.
Was Düsseldorf angeht. Die Stadt ist definitv an vielen Stellen schöner als Köln. Rheinpromenade, Altstadt und co sind wirklich toll. Manche zählen da auch noch gerne den Medienhafen dazu, den ich selbst aber grottig finde.
Zugegeben, ausserhalb der erwähnten Orte ist Düsseldorf vielleicht ein wenig hässlich und langweilig.

The real Frage ist : where are the prettiest girls? :lol:

The best part of NRW is the Sauerland with its pearl Lüdenscheid. :yes:

Ja, Köln ist tatsächlich potthässlich. Ist jetzt auch nicht so schlimm, da die Qualitäten Kölns ganz woanders liegen. Ich persönlich wohne hier trotz allem eigentlich recht gerne.
Was Düsseldorf angeht. Die Stadt ist definitv an vielen Stellen schöner als Köln. Rheinpromenade, Altstadt und co sind wirklich toll. Manche zählen da auch noch gerne den Medienhafen dazu, den ich selbst aber grottig finde.
Zugegeben, ausserhalb der erwähnten Orte ist Düsseldorf vielleicht ein wenig hässlich und langweilig.Ja, Altstadt und die paar Meter Kö (in 5 Minuten abgelaufen) sind die optischen Highlights. Die Rheinpromenade wirkt auf mich seelenlos. Das Kölner Rheinufer in Domnähe fand ich dann doch überzeugender, da weit vitaler. Aber alles Geschmackssache.

Die Rheinpromenade wirkt auf mich seelenlos. Das Kölner Rheinufer in Domnähe fand ich dann doch überzeugender, da weit vitaler. Aber alles Geschmackssache.

Ich hab die Schönheit der Gebiete rein architektonisch gesehen. Was du ansprichst ist ein anderer Punkt und da gebe ich dir recht.
Köln ist nicht nur viel lebendiger, die Leute sind auch viel freundlicher. Der Anteil an Asozialen oder scheinbar vom Leben vergrantelten Leuten ist in Düsseldorf wirklich sehr hoch.
Dass man sich also am unschöneren kölner Rheinufer an einem sonnigen Nachmittag wohler fühlt als in Düsseldorf würde ich generell nicht bestreiten.

^ Wollte ich auch schon schreiben, hatte dann aber mit Rücksicht auf einige Forumer nicht die Eier dazu.

Hängt halt davon ab, was man als "lebenswert" sieht. Im Osten sind zwar die Städte schön, aber dort leben halt nur noch frustrierte Nazis (bis auf Neubrandenburg natürlich :okay: ).

Bender muss wissen, wo seine Prioritäten liegen. Bonn ist sicherlich von den drei Städten die traditionell "schönste" Stadt. Köln ist dafür größer und bietet so auch in anderen Bereichen mehr. Düsseldorf ist einfach nur scheiße.

Düsseldorf ist einfach nur scheiße.Kommst du aus Köln?

Das ist eine universell anerkannte Ansicht. Sagen wir es mal so...architektonisch hat es schon mehr zu bieten als Köln. Die Gegend zwischen Kö und Rhein ist ganz nett. Aber die Stadt hat keine Seele. :ohno:

Hängt halt davon ab, was man als "lebenswert" sieht. Im Osten sind zwar die Städte schön, aber dort leben halt nur noch frustrierte Nazis (bis auf Neubrandenburg natürlich :okay: ).

You are right, East Germany is generally more beautiful, but Bender wont go there as there are no jobs :hahano: The area around Berlin is 'booming' though.



Bender muss wissen, wo seine Prioritäten liegen. Bonn ist sicherlich von den drei Städten die traditionell "schönste" Stadt. Köln ist dafür größer und bietet so auch in anderen Bereichen mehr. Düsseldorf ist einfach nur scheiße.

What about Aachen? I really liked it. It is far from the Rhine, so it has no river promenade. A big plus is the medieval layout and its green parts.

Ich habe schon paar mal eine Lanze für die Berlinerinnen gebrochen und tue es gerne wieder, insbesondere für die östliche Variante. Ehre, wem Ehre gebührt.

:hug:

Bonn ist die einzige lebenswerte Stadt im Rheinland, Münster die Einzige in Westfalen. Im Zweifelsfall hilft nur noch das Bundesland zu wechseln.

Aachen ist eigentlich auch noch ganz in Ordnung. Gerade die Uni rettet vieles.

Man kann festhalten. NRW's drei "most lovable cities" sind gleichzeitig Uni-Zentren ersten Ranges. Da kann man Parallelen zu BaWü (Freiburg, Heidelberg, Konstanz, Tübingen) oder Bayern (Erlangen, Würzburg, Passau, Regensburg) ziehen.

What about Aachen? I really liked it. It is far from the Rhine, so it has no river promenade. A big plus is the medieval layout and its green parts.

Aachen is good too but the commute would be too long.

Düsseldorf has some nice residential areas as well. If you were to move there I'd have a look at Pempelfort. It's pretty close to the center of the city, there's a nice park nearby (Hofgarten) and the train station is a 5 minute subway ride away.

If you'll work at Leverkusen Düsseldorf-Benrath is a good choice:

1. It's in the very south of D, so by car it's 20 min to Leverkusen. The train-connection is good aswell.
2. It's a very nice area with the Rhine and the Rokoko-chateau.

There are other nice places in D, but reaching Lev is harder from those.

pempelfort > doofe namen

Wer nicht im Glashaus sitzt, bitte melden. Gutleutviertel, Preungesheim, Seckbach... Bembel, Städel, Nidda...

If I could choose one place to live in Germany it would be Frankfurt or Rudesheim eventually :)

I might study overseas in Germany, particular the Cologne/Bonn area next year or so. Why some people think Cologne or Bonn are boring? My major is Geography and Environmental Planning btw.

I might study overseas in Germany, particular the Cologne/Bonn area next year or so. Why some people think Cologne or Bonn are boring? My major is Geography and Environmental Planning btw.

Nobody thinks that Cologne is boring. Probably one of the most exciting places in Germany. Just not as nice (architecture) as Munich or Hamburg.

Some people have said its boring, but I guess they have missed something or they boring themselves.

Köln is not boring, Köln is ugly! That's a big difference.

edit: wrong thread

Köln is not boring, Köln is ugly! That's a big difference.

+1
Köln may cause cancer in your eye, but it's definitely not boring.
And from the many US-americans and Canadians I met, I somehow believe that it's almost impossible to not like the city (or any bigger German city for that matter)

I hope we have returned to the actual topic, which was where to live in germany (and not turkey)

my picks are frankfurt (and surroundings) and mannheim


frankfurt:

-exciting city,
-nice mix of modernity and tradition,
-nice places to visit inside and outside of frankfurt, especially in terms of nature
-excellent infrastructure
-not to forget the economy that is far better than the rest of germany
-out of frankfurt and the area around it you can pick a city or area to live in that suites you best. the variety is big and there is the ideal place for any kind of person, guaranteed.

(for every point just mentioned frankfurt is on the very top of germany)


mannheim:

-perfect size (imo)
-beautiful city
-good shopping possiblities
-good range of entertainment for the people
-heidelberg is just around the corner. you can go there for fun, entertainment or relaxation
(some people here said go and live in heidelberg. I disagree with them. heidelberg is not the ideal place to live in. its small and living room is expensive. besides that its extremely touristic. all the tourists can annoy you after a short time. its a good place to live in for pensioners)

-all the time I thought the big contra of mannheim was that there is not such a big economy.
I just looked it up and found out I was wrong. there is quite a bunch of big companies.



btw I picked these to city only out of the areas in germany I have seen and can judge.
so no disrespect to hamburg, stuttgart, cologne etc.

I would suggest to everyone: Lay off your stereotypes about East Germany, and experience the real one! Try beautiful Leipzig, Dresden, Erfurt, Rostock or even Halle - you won't regret it! Or do you think so? Still people out there who have heavy prejudices against East Germany?

But east german are generally not that friendly toward foreigners. And the job market is not that great either.

Living in Deutschland must be awesome, I'd love to. :)

It is, really. Come here and you'll enjoy it. :)

I would suggest to everyone: Lay off your stereotypes about East Germany, and experience the real one! Try beautiful Leipzig, Dresden, Erfurt, Rostock or even Halle - you won't regret it! Or do you think so? Still people out there who have heavy prejudices against East Germany?

Are you from Halle?

Can any ex-pats speak to their experiencing living aborad in Germany? ...with respect to where they enjoyed living, and where they would not recommend and why.

Thanks!

Can any ex-pats speak to their experiencing living aborad in Germany? ...with respect to where they enjoyed living, and where they would not recommend and why.

Thanks!

It's a long question to answer. Maybe you can give some sort of hint at what you are after. Each of us will have had different experiences and expectations.

I quite like living in Germany after moving from Australia many years ago. If I were to do it again, Frankfurt wouldn't be my personal choice. Instead I would choose Berlin or Hamburg. But again, that would just be for personal reasons.

Well, I have been only in Frankfurt am Main, quite nice city:yes: Still U/C.
I heard that Berlin have nice athmosphere- would like to visit it someday:yes:

I have spent almost a year in Rhein - Neckar Dreieck , living in Heidelberg and Mannheim, I have also travelled a lot across whole Germany, and in my opinion best places to live are situated just between Stuttgart and Mainz.
The summer was really hot, winter quite mild, people were friendly. It was quite close to France or to the Alps, the landscape and architecture were simply wunderbar!!
And the most boring place in Germany I found was Kassel :)

I am an Austrian living in Munich. Munich is probarbly the nicest city in all of Germany. Good weather, a lot of culture and really a beautiful city.

^^ I havn't been for ages, but years ago I used to go every second weekend for a year and the one thing I remember about the weather was stunning clear blue skies. Coming back to Frankfurt, it may have been warmer but was often overcast or hazy.

It does get pretty cold in winter though in Munich.

The Bodensee area is the best place to live. And also Baden Baden, Garmisch Partenkirchen and many other places...

But what can you actually do in GAP? If you want to live in the south and avoid the big cities I'd suggest Freiburg, Tübingen or Augsburg.

Berchtesgaden is more beautiful than GAP anyway.

Konstanz is a great place to live if you want to join the Bodensee area. Big enough, many students, close to the Swiss border and beautiful surroundings.

But what can you actually do in GAP?

In GAP you can enjoy the mountains, the lakes, fantastic bike paths...and so on.

http://www.flickr.com/search/?s=rec&z=e&ss=1&w=all&q=eibsee&m=text

there are lots of shopping possibilities (unlike the other mountain towns) and you can drive to Innsbruck or Munich in a rel. short period of time. Or even Italy, which is only ~50km away from GAP. And most of the time in GAP you are surrounded by happy people with smiles on their faces (because most of them are happy tourists ;)) I have spent more than a year in GAP and it was pure paradise. The only problem were the prices. GAP is pretty expensive.

The landscape is nice, definitely. But also GAP is located very remotely. I'd been living in that area for around a year and don't need it twice. When you want urbanity, it's around 1,5 hours to München by train. Even by car you won't be too much faster.

Hey guys, anyone here work in the IT industry in Germany? I'm from Australia and work in the IT industry and have considered in the foreseeable future moving for a while to Europe. I am not fluent in German, but since I've had a handful of flings here in Oz with German girls and I've loved them, I think that there are lots of beautiful women in Germany, which makes me think about the possibility of moving there.
Which places in Germany have the more beautiful gals? Or at least the largest ratio per man? Are they as cool and easy going at home as they are while they're travelling and studying in Oz? Vielen Dank.

You should first have a trip to Europe before considering moving here. Even if all German people you met in NZ were nice, living in a foreign country is still something completely different. Outside the professional life I would expect a language barrier, especially with common people. And think about all the differences in the tax and welfare system...

As for the girls, you should come over and find out how easy-going we really are if you play on our turf. :tongue2:

largest ratio per man is normally found in prosperous west german cities, where east german women move to because of better job perspectives (while east german men tend so stay in the east).
therefore cities like frankfurt, munich, also stuttgart, düsseldorf or hamburg will suit you best.
however, if you happen to turn gay in the meanwhile (no offense), move to east german province.

Avoid Hamburg. The girls are so stuck up and stiff here.

if you happen to turn gay in the meanwhile (no offense), move to east german province

bad idea ... all east german are nazis, so they would kill you on an instant.

You should definately NOT move to Frankfurt or Düsseldorf. Think about all negative cliches about Germany - here they have become reality. The people are generally insanely stuck up and caught in a maze of self-hatred. They simply fail to enjoy life. Are you rich? No? Forget it. The woman will probably angrily shout at you for jay-walking rather than accepting you as a mate. And if you are rich, prepare for a social life as enthralling as watching concrete walls.

talking about self hatred... actually always do the oppostie of what miau tells you.

Don't listen to "il fenomeno", he wants to lure you into his evil-overlord hideout in Frankfurt to play evil over-gay-lord games with you. :)

... ich denke mal wir machen einen extrem schlechten Eindruck auf unsere potentiellen ausländischen Gäste...


Weiter so! :applause:

Avoid Hamburg. The girls are so stuck up and stiff here.

So which German city has the the most down to earth girls? I find it hard to believe that a city of over 1.8 million has no nice girls.

Why should German girls be interested in YOU?

The major differences are between rural and urban Germany, not between the cities, but as mentioned above, some cities are just a waste of time (and space - I can visualize such a nice flower garden at the river banks along the Main valley...).

So which German city has the the most down to earth girls? I find it hard to believe that a city of over 1.8 million has no nice girls.
I've heard that girls from Schwarzwald are pretty. ;)

Oh, let's stick to the subject - (potential) moving to Germany.

In the very beginning, a few words about me. I study finance in Wroclaw, Poland, and I'm a kind of person, who tries to choose some goals and then attain them. One of my dreams was to move abroad for a couple of years, since I love travelling and exploring other cultures. Although I speak fluently English, I'm far from heading for the UK. However, I thought a lot about Germany.

So, I started learning German (now I'm intermediate), this spring I'm going to be an Erasmus student in Frankfurt am Main. Currently, I'm in Hamburg, where I am improving my German. ;) I also think about doing here, in Germany, my Master studies.

All in all, I am really afraid that it'd be more than difficult, to settle here and find a good job. Especially, I'm afraid of stereotypes of Poles, which, I think, are still quite vivid here.

What are your opinions? Am I maybe over-sensitive? Do you have any tips?

Kind regards from (eventually) warm Hamburg. :)

I don't think it is a problem. Especially with the current discussion about "Fachkräftemangel" your nationality shouldn't play any role. However that doesnt change the fact that german companies tend to be very very demanding when it comes to selection of new employees.

However that doesnt change the fact that german companies tend to be very very demanding when it comes to selection of new employees.
So do Polish companies. ;) Or, international companies settled in Poland.

All in all, I am really afraid that it'd be more than difficult, to settle here and find a good job. Especially, I'm afraid of stereotypes of Poles, which, I think, are still quite vivid here.

What are your opinions? Am I maybe over-sensitive? Do you have any tips?

Well, stereotypes here (like everywhere else) are mostly vivid among the lower classes and/or rural areas. But I really don't think stereotypes are a problem, all what matters are your qualifications. And as said, we have "Fachkräftemangel" here. We don't have enough high-qualified people here.

This is something I wondered a couple of times: Is it really that hard to get a job in Germany? Various online articles and some SSC forumers have said that getting a job is next to impossible. Any truth to that?

Well, stereotypes here (like everywhere else) are mostly vivid among the lower classes and/or rural areas. But I really don't think stereotypes are a problem, all what matters are your qualifications. And as said, we have "Fachkräftemangel" here. We don't have enough high-qualified people here.
I'm new to this forum and I am following my dreams of moving back to Germany after 20 years. I believe much have probably changed, since I was last there in 1991. I have really been homesick ever since leaving, but life and finances never allowed for such a move . I really do miss the culture , the people, the genuine lifestyle, the architecture, the history, the food, the beer, and of course the ladies. I look forward to finally LIVING life as it was meant to be lived, not like the rat race here in America. I'm not yet sure where to settle but I am leaning towards Bayern or Baden-Wurttemberg. I was wondering if living in either one of those areas, if I can get away with speaking primarily English mixed in with some German? At least until I brush up on my German and expand my speech and vocabulary skills? I lived there previously in my late teens for 8 years, and mostly amongst German families, even though I was an American military dependent. Thank you

during the last 20 years, german lifestyle has become more and more rat race-like. its propably not as bad as in the usa but far from being as good as back then.

It's a shame. I think alot of it has to do with influences from Hollywood and the media. I'm hoping it's not the case in the smaller towns outside the city. I really enjoyed the slower pace when I was there. I think it's important for people to slow down just enough to enjoy life.

i think it was also economical pressure. to become competitive again, german working life had to turn harsher.
in small german cities life might be slower. on the other hand, you can get along with very basic german skills for years. might be much harder on the country.

i think it was also economical pressure. to become competitive again, german working life had to turn harsher.
in small german cities life might be slower. on the other hand, you can get along with very basic german skills for years. might be much harder on the country.

I'm sure. I plan on learning and being fluent in German. I understand quite alot still. I'm learning on my own now and I'm sure more will come back to me once I start listening and being around the locals. I was wondering if you can tell me if there are still some Americans living in Germany? How does it compare to 20 years ago? Will I be accepted living with the locals in Bayern or Baden-Wuttermberg? We're looking at somewhere between Baden-Baden and Freiburg or between Munchen and Nurmberg or Ulm. Wouldn't mind living South of Munchen, in one of those small towns near the Alps range.

The locals there burn witches at wooden stakes now and then.

Btw, do you look central european?

The problem is that people in the south still use their local dialect and it's hard to understand even for regular Germans. As a matter of fact they sometimes have to use subtitles on tv if they ask some Bavarian hick a question about farming or something like that.

In addition, the people in the south tend to be very touchy concerning their own cultural heritage. Normally, people accept that outsiders do not well understand their peculiarities and still can be proud of their traditions. Not so in Bavaria (and Swabia)! In Bavaria it may happen that a Bavarian reacts hostile towards a non-bavarian German who does not understand his dialect. This is simply disgusting and the major cause for the (low-level) hostility between North and South.

In addition, the people in the south tend to be very touchy concerning their own cultural heritage. Normally, people accept that outsiders do not well understand their peculiarities and still can be proud of their traditions. Not so in Bavaria (and Swabia)! In Bavaria it may happen that a Bavarian reacts hostile towards a non-bavarian German who does not understand his dialect. This is simply disgusting and the major cause for the (low-level) hostility between North and South.
I do remember that from my stay in Germany. I was in Hessen at that time. What do you think about the Baden-Wuttermberg area. Anywhere from Baden-Baden down to Freiburg and between A5 and A81 all the way down south. I believe that is the Schwarzwald mountain range. How are the locals there? Are they more hospitable?

They're quite progressive and care a lot about the environment.

I was wondering if you can tell me if there are still some Americans living in Germany? How does it compare to 20 years ago?

Of course especially in upper palatinate, have u every heard of grafenwöhr?
its the biggest us troop station in europe around 20.000 american citizen are
living in or around graf. The next biggest city in the region is Weiden in der Oberpfalz.
There are also bigger troop stations in Bamberg and Heidelberg.
I think it wouldnt be bad for you to move in a city with a bigger american population.
You will be served in english and your daily life shouldnt a problem even without proper
german for the first few month until its getting better.

^

That's a great idea. I was exploring that as well. We were stationed in Giessen in the 80's until 1991. There was a big American population at the time, but I believe they closed everything down about 10 years ago. I'm familiar with Grafenwohr. My father use to go on exercise there about 3x a year. I believe it's not too far from Nurnberg. Is there an American population in Nurnberg? What about the Wiesbaden/Frankfurt area? Thank you.

There are no barracks/depots in Nuremberg, just in the suburbs like Ansbach. And i really dont know any americans who are living in Nuremberg (but its quite possible).
But I think in bigger cities like Nuremberg you wont have probs cuz its more international same counts for Frankfurt/Wiesbaden - ive heard of a military facility in Darmstadt which is also in the metropolitan area (Dagger Complex, Darmstadt Training Center) but i rly dont know how big it is.. sry. Yea i know the last depot in giessen closed 2009. :D

They're quite progressive and care a lot about the environment.

its the california of germany.

There are no barracks/depots in Nuremberg, just in the suburbs like Ansbach. And i really dont know any americans who are living in Nuremberg (but its quite possible).
But I think in bigger cities like Nuremberg you wont have probs cuz its more international same counts for Frankfurt/Wiesbaden - ive heard of a military facility in Darmstadt which is also in the metropolitan area (Dagger Complex, Darmstadt Training Center) but i rly dont know how big it is.. sry. Yea i know the last depot in giessen closed 2009. :D
Ok. Vielen Dank. Ich freue mich auf dort bewegen.

Ok. Vielen Dank. Ich freue mich auf dort bewegen.

Lesson I: "Moving there" in the meaning of "changing your place of residence" - "Umziehen / Hinziehen" in German.

So the sentence would be like that: "Ich freue mich darauf, dorthin/nach Deutschland zu ziehen."


Checking this thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=938928) could also help. ;)

I'm sure. I plan on learning and being fluent in German. I understand quite alot still. I'm learning on my own now and I'm sure more will come back to me once I start listening and being around the locals. I was wondering if you can tell me if there are still some Americans living in Germany? How does it compare to 20 years ago? Will I be accepted living with the locals in Bayern or Baden-Wuttermberg? We're looking at somewhere between Baden-Baden and Freiburg or between Munchen and Nurmberg or Ulm. Wouldn't mind living South of Munchen, in one of those small towns near the Alps range.

You will be accepted (if you behave well that is!) Don't trust anything Miau writes about Southern Germany.
For finding someone who speaks in really unintelligible dialect, you'd have to go to the really small villages, eg the genuine countryside. But these people can't be understood even by most locals themselves, as mostly the dialects have been watered down a lot and especially youths tend to speak standard german with a slight accent, and by no means in real dialect.
Anyway, even in small cities there are foreigners abound, so you won't exactly feel like the odd one out there, even if you don't look like a local.

'regular Germans'...as if people in the South were not regular Germans?

In addition, the people in the south tend to be very touchy concerning their own cultural heritage. Normally, people accept that outsiders do not well understand their peculiarities and still can be proud of their traditions. Not so in Bavaria (and Swabia)! In Bavaria it may happen that a Bavarian reacts hostile towards a non-bavarian German who does not understand his dialect. This is simply disgusting and the major cause for the (low-level) hostility between North and South.

Now, I don't know what happened to Miau in dirty South that she's so traumatised, but you could simply disregard this post.
On the contrary, if you stumble into a cosy, non-touristy restaurant in the countryside, most people will be curious to learn what you are doing at that place, and will want to hear your story. And they will make all efforts to speak as understandably as possible. :lol:

Lesson I: "Moving there" in the meaning of "changing your place of residence" - "Umziehen / Hinziehen" in German.

So the sentence would be like that: "Ich freue mich darauf, dorthin/nach Deutschland zu ziehen."


Checking this thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=938928) could also help. ;)
Ok. Thank you for clarifying. German is very hard language but I am trying.

It's hard but once you've mastered it you've become a real man.

You will be accepted (if you behave well that is!) Don't trust anything Miau writes about Southern Germany.
For finding someone who speaks in really unintelligible dialect, you'd have to go to the really small villages, eg the genuine countryside. But these people can't be understood even by most locals themselves, as mostly the dialects have been watered down a lot and especially youths tend to speak standard german with a slight accent, and by no means in real dialect.
Anyway, even in small cities there are foreigners abound, so you won't exactly feel like the odd one out there, even if you don't look like a local.

'regular Germans'...as if people in the South were not regular Germans?



Now, I don't know what happened to Miau in dirty South that she's so traumatised, but you could simply disregard this post.
On the contrary, if you stumble into a cosy, non-touristy restaurant in the countryside, most people will be curious to learn what you are doing at that place, and will want to hear your story. And they will make all efforts to speak as understandably as possible. :lol:
Thank you for responding. You describe exactly everything that I remembered the southern German people for. I was getting a little concern after reading Miau's post, that things have changed so drastically. When I used to vacation down there by the Alps, I found the locals to be very warm and inviting. Maybe it was just me but I try to speak German, and respect the culture unlike many auslander. Now I'm just glad to be able to fullfill my dream of living in Germany.

It's hard but once you've mastered it you've become a real man.
LOL. I don't think this is the reason I'm learning German.

I was almost in all cities in Germany with a population higher than 100k.
The best place is somewhere inbetween Freiburg and Koblenz :)

Freiburg is , of course, the best choice for me, since I'm a student.
But Ruhr-area also has some nice atmosphere...And it's close to the Netherlands (..you know what I mean ;))
Oh, and I forgot Aachen..It's quite cheap and beautiful and it's worth to be visited anyway.

Allgäu!

its the biggest us troop station in europe around 20.000 american citizen are
living in or around graf. The next biggest city in the region is Weiden in der Oberpfalz.
There are also bigger troop stations in Bamberg and Heidelberg.

None of these even remotely match up with K-Town, Kaiserslautern. In the city and the surrounding district, a full 20% of the population are Americans (50,000 out of 250,000).

'regular Germans'...as if people in the South were not regular Germans?

Funniest thing that way i've ever heard was someone saying that North Germans speak High German, South Germans do not. It's actually the other way around - we Southerners assimilated the Northerners into speaking a mutually intelligible language. And since the Northerners have no pride in a culture of their own, they readily accepted that compromise language concept. Blame the South winning the 30-year-war.

ive heard of a military facility in Darmstadt which is also in the metropolitan area (Dagger Complex, Darmstadt Training Center)
Darmstadt is closed. Only US base in the Rhine-Main area is the new HQ in Wiesbaden slowly being built over the next ten years.

Funniest thing that way i've ever heard was someone saying that North Germans speak High German, South Germans do not. It's actually the other way around - we Southerners assimilated the Northerners into speaking a mutually intelligible language. And since the Northerners have no pride in a culture of their own, they readily accepted that compromise language concept. Blame the South winning the 30-year-war.

Bullshit. The main reason 'we' adopted High German (a mix of Allemanic, Saxon and Bavarian conceived by Luther and other Saxons) was the fact that the Bible was translated into that language and that Protestantism was more succesful in the North than the south. Plus we actually had more migration in the 19th century than you backwards southerners.
Also, by that logic we actually imposed Germanic languages on you by conquering your country and assimilating you, you Celts.

None of these even remotely match up with K-Town, Kaiserslautern. In the city and the surrounding district, a full 20% of the population are Americans (50,000 out of 250,000).

Graf is expanding rapidly. I dont know the reason for but they are transfering many people from all over germany to graf. I think they wanna focus on a few single sites maybe k-town is one of them. By the way we have the same percentage of us citizen living here in the region. Looking just at graf its going up to 50% or Netzaberg 100% (over 800 housing units) and there is still another project going on with ~300 housing units both off post.

(a mix of Allemanic, Saxon and Bavarian conceived by Luther and other Saxons)
Uh, you're going by Grimm's definition there... which has been outdated since the 1860s. At that point Scherer coined the current periodisation of New High German (1650 to current), which puts Luther in Early New High German (1350-1650), and the switchover at the end of the 30-year-war. Luther was instrumental in Early New High German, but not for New High German - he was just one among many, his bible as defining as say the first edition of Till Eulenspiegel; that defining role for modern New High German fell to Grimmelshausen and his Simplicissimus Teutsch, the most important book of German Baroque. Grimmelshausen was from Gelnhausen, hence South German.

OMFG, what a ridiculous discussion.


So Grimmelshausen invented New High German by himself? New High German at the end of the 30 Years' War had more in common with Luther's Early New High German than with today's Standard German.
Yes, Gelnhausen is in Southern Hesse... but it's protestant. Grimmelshausen grew up in a protestant environment and most probably learnt German as it was spread by Luther. The fact that he was born in the Southern half of Germany doesn't in any way negate that our modern Standard German is based on Luther's translation of the bible - a mix of various dialects dominated by Saxon.
Northern Germany adopted this early form of Standard German due to a lack of pride? That's an amazing insight... into history education at Southern German village schools. ;)
Uh... the South won the 30 Years' War? Sorry for my bad knowledge of German history... I always thought this war had no winner, and no loser except the German people as a whole (like most wars driven by religion). But obviously that's wrong according to your profound knowledge. Guess I should apply for asylum somewhere in Scandinavia... being a Protestant, I'm a member of a religious minority since that glorious victory of the Catholic South. ;)


Of course, Luther hadn't contributed much to the definition of a German standard language. He just mixed up a few dialects of that time, like Squig said. But his achievements in spreading the (written) German language are enormous.

Putting the history of German language in a nutshell is rather impossible, since you have to differentiate between written and spoken language which evolved independently from each other over hundreds of years. Anyway, if you try to explain it in one sentence, it will probably lead to something like this:

"Today's Standard German is mostly Upper Saxon pronounced in a Lower German way."

Heard this from a linguist once. Strongly simplified, but quite to the point.

Ich bin Programmierer von Beruf. Wie ist es derueber? Welcher Bundesland oder Stadt kann Programmierern mehr brauchen?

Ein Glück ist ja Ita bei uns :hug:

Charmeur!
:)

Ich bin Programmierer von Beruf. Wie ist es derueber? Welcher Bundesland oder Stadt kann Programmierern mehr brauchen?

Ich glaube, dass diese Qualifikation immer gesucht wird. Ich bin Experte, aber du hast bestimmt sehr gute Chancen :)

What do you think about the Baden-Wuttermberg area. Anywhere from Baden-Baden down to Freiburg and between A5 and A81 all the way down south. I believe that is the Schwarzwald mountain range. How are the locals there? Are they more hospitable?

Perfect place to live. If you're afraid of miaus stereotypes, than Baden should be your destination. None of the popular cliches regarding Southern Germany apply to the Southwest (especially Freiburg). It has all the advantages of Bavaria, but none of its drawbacks.

Perfect place to live. If you're afraid of miaus stereotypes, than Baden should be your destination. None of the popular cliches regarding Southern Germany apply to the Southwest (especially Freiburg). It has all the advantages of Bavaria, but none of its drawbacks.

It's expensive, you can't get proper bitter pils in bars and the people speak a weird dialect. Sounds like Bavaria to me! :-P

but the climate there is the best in Germany !

In Freiburg-City you hardly hear any dialect at all. As I said, the cliches are not working for this place. ;)

http://www.freiburger-pilsner.de/

http://www.ganter.com/

Ok. Thank you for clarifying. German is very hard language but I am trying.

That's true. It is a "Luftzerhackersprache" (=language which sounds as hacking air into pieces).

It's the language of poets and thinkers.

... and witches and wizards.

and insane scientists

Emigration to Germany? Look, you probably don't know, but you are living in one of the most wonderful countries in the world! I have spent one half of the year here and, you know, for a young scientist, Germany is Waaay better than the United States or whatever. Please, don't let the German System fall, ok? Reproduce yourself better. If Germany will become Turkish, then EU will be finished. I'm sorry. I was not political correct.

F*ck better, save Germany!!! Everybody loves GERMANY! Don't fuck it up, please. You know, three month in your country was enough to fell in love with it. While it was not enough 25 years in my Motherland to love it ((. Save German system in any cases. And yes, I found that in Germany one has more possibilities than anywhere else, if this one is a talented guy.

are you serious? what exactly is so great?

Ich bin Programmierer von Beruf. Wie ist es derueber? Welcher Bundesland oder Stadt kann Programmierern mehr brauchen?

Im Prinzip überall. Angesichts der boomenden IT-Industrie in München und Hamburg glaube ich aber, dass es dort am besten aussieht.

@Ress

Der Bedarf an Informatikern wächst. Nach Angaben des Vereins Deutscher Ingenieure (VDI) gab es im Januar 2011 rund 23.600 unbesetzte Stellen für IT-Spezialisten. Ohne Arbeit sind derzeit aber nur 7000 Informatiker, denn die Arbeitslosigkeit ist erneut gesunken und liegt nur noch bei 3,8 %. Damit können schon jetzt rund 16.500 Stellen für Informatiker nicht besetzt werden. Das sei eine bes*org*niserregende Entwicklung für den IT-Standort Deutschland, klagt Dieter Westerkamp vom VDI.

Source (http://www.mittelstandsblog.de/2011/03/arbeitsmarkt-bedarf-an-it-spezialisten-wachst-das-angebot-sinkt/)

Bei diesen Zahlen musst du aber sehen das sie auf das komplette Bundesgebiet bezogen sind, die einzelnen Regionen, hier speziell Bayern und Baden-Württemberg in welchen auch bei der regulären Bevölkerung fast Vollbeschäftigung herrscht. Quasi wenn du einen Job suchst ist die Chance in diesen beiden Bundesländern etwas zu finden wohl am höchsten.

Karte (http://www.pub.arbeitsamt.de/hst/services/statistik/000000/html/start/karten/aloq_kreis.html) für die einzelnen Landkreise / Städte in Sachen Arbeitslosenquote

Viel Erfolg :)

and a famous dictator

Best place is of course Berlin ...
The rest are 'nice trips' to discover the so called BRD (= Berliner Repubik Deutschland) ...

;)

Well, Berlin is very large and it takes some time and effort to leave the city. Smaller cities have the advantage that you are quicker outside. Moreover, even though the landscape around Berlin is beautiful, it has neither sea or mountains -- which is a drawback, IMO.

ehhh Deutschland Deutschland for me best country! I hope that I'll have an opportunity to move to Germany and start a new life next year after studies.

About Freiburg. I've been there, really nice and clean city. Very attractive is the city's location, close to France and Switzerland. It's true that Freiburg is the city with the most sunniest days in Germany. When I've been there I even saw a palm tree :)

Grüßen aus Großbritannien und Oberschlesien!

Hello people!

I saw now, we should keep it in English, so I'm translating the text.

My girlfriend got a job at Ingolstadt Hospital.
I hope to move there as well, but still looking for a job.

My question about the place to live.

She has been trying to find an apartment by the hospital, unfortunately, "I'm very sorry, but I have no more free apartments. All of our student homes are from December 2011 indefinite time booked."

Because we do not have as much money from the start, we are looking for a furnished apartment until we allow ourselves something better.
Does anyone have some tips?

Thank you:)

-----------

Hallo Leute!

Meine Freundin hat eine Arbeitsstelle bei der Klinikum Ingolstadt bekommen.
Ich werde hoffentlich auch dort einziehen, suche aber noch einen Job.

Meine Frage bezüglich zur Wohnung.

Sie hat versucht eine Wohnung durch die Klinikum zu finden, leider "es tut mir sehr leid, aber ich habe keine freien Appartements mehr. All unsere Studentenwohnung sind ab Dez. 2011 auf unbestimmte Zeit belegt."

Weil wir nicht so viel Geld von Anfang an haben, suchen wir eine Wohnung die schon möbliert ist bis wir uns auf die Beine stellen und uns etwas besseres erlauben.
Hat jemand einige Tipps?

Danke :)

Furbished apartments are rather unusual in Germany. You could look for places for "Zwischenmiete" (typically, students which aren't in town for some months due to university exchange or internships rent their flat or their room in a shared flat for that time, so it is furnished). A good start would be www.wg-gesucht.de (the most popular housing market with students) or the blackboards at the university, etc. Otherwise, the usual online markets could be an alternative.

Ingolstadt has two universities and from october exceptional many freshmen start their studies so especially this year it is probably very hard to find something appropriate and why all student residences are full. However, the town is quite large compared to the uni, so it should be easier than in other cities.

Good luck!

Hi,

can someone tell me how much can one rent an apartment for in Munchen? I might take a job there, not sure yet, so I'm doing a little research which isn't going well since I don't speak German. I'm pretty modest but I would require a parking space and I don't want to live with Turkish or Middle-eastern immigrants. No offense to anyone. What's the best place to live in Munchen providing it's cheap (relatively) and it's not a ghetto? How much for a studio per month?

i think at least 500 Euro normally



check this: http://www.mietspiegel-muenchen.de/2011/stadtplan.html


blue = cheapest, red = most expensive

Thank you but I can't see the prices. How do I operate this thing?

there are just the parts of the town an the average prices shown throug colours.


for real prices you should check some online newspapers or some estate agencys

it´s much more cheaper outside of Munich, but there you are completly in the country side (except south-west)

How much would you consider is enough to cover all costs and expenses for a single mid-to-late twenties guy? Rent, utilities, phone, food and public transportation. Do you have any links to local newspapers/craiglists?

This is the most popular real estate service in Germany: http://www.immobilienscout24.de/Suche/S-T/Wohnung-Miete/Bayern/Muenchen?


You'll sure find some nice flat there. :)

Thanks loads! Both of you. http://forum.bmwslo.com/images/smilies/bigok.gif

munich and cheap and no ghetto, thats the mother of oxymorons.

the side costs for living in Germany, are not really expensive - even not in Munich.

Just check a cheap flat, the other things can by done easily anyway

A question about using torrents in Germany.

I heard of people who got fined (1000 euros), because they downloaded (and seeded) torrents. I think that has happened because they downloaded music and films, don't know of TV series, also I don't know if they used private or public trackers. I heard that you don't get fined for leeching/seeding TV series. Is this true? I'm asking because I am using a private site and tracker to get TV series that I watch, and I also have to seed it for a while after leeching it.

Thanks.

It is definitely Not legal, but usually nobody cares and only proffessional pirats are persecuted. However, there are laywers who specialized on Black-mailing suspects and often people just pay the laywer. You should be safe using closed trackers.

del

hallo. ich suche legal arbeit als eisenflechter.Ich bin Ausländer und Kaum kann sprechen Deutsch.Bitte hilfe mir,Vielen dank :)

Melde dich bitte bei Erbse. Der ist der Boss hier.

schade. ich hätte ihn gerne beim taunusturm eingeschleust, dann hätte er richtig protzige updates direkt von der maloche liefern können.

Hallo.
Ich wollte Arbeit als Programmiere in Muenchen zu finden. Jetzt bin ich Auslaender. Ich wohne nicht in EU. Wo kann man Arbeit bei IT in Muenchen finden? Ich meine Internet-seite oder Agentur.
Braucht Deutschland IT-Fachleute noch?
PS. Ich habe 2000 ca. 3 Monate als Programmierer in Dienstreise in Erding bei Muenchen schon gearbeitet. Es gibt Kusine meiner Frau, sie ist Bundesbuergerin. So, gibt es jemand, wer mit der Wohnung fuer erste Zeit hilfen kann.

Hallo :)

Ja, wir brauchen wieder IT-Fachleute, da herrscht derzeit ein großer Mangel.

Für die Jobsuche sollte dir das für den Anfang helfen: http://jobsuche.monster.de/Jobs/?q=IT&cy=de&where=M__C3__BCnchen__2C-Bayern

Und zur Wohnungssuche: http://www.immobilienscout24.de/Suche/S-21T/Wohnung-Miete/Bayern/Muenchen?enteredFrom=one_step_search

1. A question about Internet and Telephony providers, do you have some recommendations for me? I definitely am searching for a high speed connection, no slowish ISDN/DSL. I found this offer at Kabel Deutschland:
http://www.kabeldeutschland.de/internet-telefon/internet-und-telefon-100.html
http://www.kabeldeutschland.de/static/media/Preisliste_Internet_und_Telefon_Komplettpakete.pdf

- 20 euro/month the first year, then 40 euro/month
- Bis zu 100.000 Kbit/s im Download und 6.000 Kbit/s im Upload
- Internetanschluss mit Internet-Flatrate
- Telefonanschluss mit Festnetz-Flatrate
- Option Flat International in 60 Länder gratis telefonieren for extra 14,90 €/Monat which includes Romania

Upload speed is kinda slow compared to download, but still seems decent.
What do you think about this? Or do you know something better?

2. Another question, what bank do you recommend for salary? I would like to pay as less fees as possible for cash withdrawals, money transfers, online banking...

3. And last question, what health insurance company?

Danke!

Hallo deutsche Teilnehmer!

Ich suche eine WG in Frankfurt am Main und ich kenne nur die Seite wg-gesucht.de

Könntet ihr mir andere Webseiten empfehlen? Vielen dank für eure Hilfe!!

Was ist denn mit der Seite nicht in Ordnung? So weit ich weiß ist es die größte für WG-Suchende/Bietende in Deutschland.


Ansonsten gibt es auch bei Immobilienscout immer einige Angebote: http://www.immobilienscout24.de/Suche/S-T/WG-Zimmer/Hessen/Frankfurt-am-Main?

Best place is of course Berlin ...
The rest are 'nice trips' to discover the so called BRD (= Berliner Repubik Deutschland) ...

;)

Bayern und RestDeutschland

Was ist denn mit der Seite nicht in Ordnung? So weit ich weiß ist es die größte für WG-Suchende/Bietende in Deutschland.

Ansonsten gibt es auch bei Immobilienscout immer einige Angebote: http://www.immobilienscout24.de/Suche/S-T/WG-Zimmer/Hessen/Frankfurt-am-Main?

Alles in Ordnung mit wg-gesucht, aber ich wollte nur andere Optionen kennen. Ich wusste nicht, dass diese Seite die grösste war.

Vielen dank für die Infos!!

Gerne doch :)

Was willst du denn in Frankfurt machen? Arbeiten?

leben wie gott in frankreich natürlich

Leben wie Gott in Frankfurt


Das klingt gleich viel verheißungsvoller.

ja, Frankfurt ist nicht arm, aber sexy.

Gerne doch :)

Was willst du denn in Frankfurt machen? Arbeiten?

Genau! Mein Glück in Madrid ist schon aus. Ich werd' es mal woanders suchen und hoffentlich finden.

Magnifico. Dann wünsche ich dir viel Erfolg bei deiner Suche!

Bring ein paar Madrider Chicas mit nach Frankfurt, Deutschland braucht Nachwuchs! :smug:

Tausende Spanier und Griechen flüchten nach Deutschland
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/0,1518,805315,00.html


jetzt kommen sie die spanier. ihr seid mir lieb, welcome to alemanha. :)

Mir gefällt Düsseldorf ganz gut!

jetzt kommen sie die spanier. ihr seid mir lieb, welcome to alemanha. :)Werden sie das Kreuz mit dem Schwert zurückbringen?

Magnifico. Dann wünsche ich dir viel Erfolg bei deiner Suche!

Bring ein paar Madrider Chicas mit nach Frankfurt, Deutschland braucht Nachwuchs! :smug:

Errr, 23kilo Gepäckbeschränkung: wenn du mal ein Paar Spaghetti willst :lol:

ich bitte um eure Hilfe: welche Handy-Tarif empfehlt ihr in Deutschland?

Zur Zeit habe ich ein HTC Wildfire mit Daten-flatrate (500Mb/monat) und 3cent/min in allen Netzen mit MásMóvil (ein Mobilfunkdiscounter in Spanien, der zwei Deutschen gehört). Ich bin kein Handyverrückter, ich telefoniere kaum und deswegen zahle ich eher wenig: im Durchschnitt 13€/Monat, Mwst. inkl.

ach, da gibt es mehr als genug Alternativen.

Es gibt Seiten wo man die Tarife vergleichen kann, ich hab mal gegoogelt: http://www.handytarife.de

Ich persönlich denke, du fährst ganz gut mit Congstar oder Fyve, das sind Discount Töchter von T-Mobile und Vodafone.

Danke! ein Paar von diesen Seiten habe ich schon angeschaut, aber ich wollte eure persönliche Meinungen kennen. Danke nochmals.

Dann lieber Jamón Ibérico. ;)

Iberia stinkt. Flieg mit Air Berlin, die geben automatisch 30kg, wenn der Rückflug später als 28 Tage ist ode so. Zumindest wars so, könnte sein, dass sie das in ihrer Krise auch gestrichen haben.

^^ Diese Billigairline fliegt aber nicht ab Madrid, und die Anzahl ihrer Strecken nach FRA ist auch relativ übersichtlich.
Alternative zu IB wäre aber definitiv LH, LAN (Interkont-produkt) und Spanair. Da wird doch bestimmt was gehen.
Air Europa beantragt auch immer Slots, aber kriegt irgendwie nie welche.