View Full Version : Is this a big, medium or small skyline?


philadweller
May 1st, 2009, 08:44 AM
http://phillyskyline.com/misc/wallpaper_090424d.jpg
I took this one from the ride to the airport which almost shows the whole skyline. It's missing University City's skyline and the remainder of the skyline to the Delaware River
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3061/2779381241_9ea9ea5035_b.jpg
http://www.phillyskyline.com/bldgs/residencesattheritz/ratr_uc362.jpg
and what other skyline seems about the same size?

Assemblage23
May 1st, 2009, 09:02 AM
I'd said it's a medium skyline. And easily a superb example of such Skylines!

Rekarte
May 1st, 2009, 09:12 AM
Medium skyline!

christos-greece
May 1st, 2009, 10:35 AM
Medium skyline i say too

Maxim Prokopenko
May 1st, 2009, 02:38 PM
Medium, but it's OK! :)

null
May 1st, 2009, 03:01 PM
Medium to small.

philadweller
May 1st, 2009, 11:09 PM
I would agree with all but null. I would say medium plus. Which US city has a similar sized skyline? This is not the total skyline but reveals the big five.

philadweller
May 1st, 2009, 11:13 PM
They are starting this next year.
http://www.basicfunction.com/board/files/comcast_uc2819.jpg

Chicago, NYC and LA are really the only large skylines in the US. Most are medium.

Italic
May 2nd, 2009, 12:00 AM
Philly skyline is fantastic ! Liberty one and now Comcast center are really incredible maybe it's not like New York or Chicago but in my opinion it's the third USA skyline.

l'eau
May 2nd, 2009, 12:27 AM
medium.

Dubai_Boy
May 2nd, 2009, 01:35 AM
Medium in the US , small outside of the US i would say.

i would say comparable to Fujairahs skyline :)

Camilo_Costa
May 2nd, 2009, 03:21 AM
Medium, I think. In the US, I think we can consider as a big skyline Chicago and New York.

weird
May 2nd, 2009, 03:40 AM
Who cares about the size? One of the best across the US.

philadweller
May 2nd, 2009, 03:57 AM
Size does not matter. There are much bigger cities in the world with smaller skylines than Philadelphia.

philadweller
May 2nd, 2009, 03:59 AM
"Philly skyline is fantastic ! Liberty one and now Comcast center are really incredible maybe it's not like New York or Chicago but in my opinion it's the third USA skyline."

I would have to agree. Miami seems bigger but it's a long thin skyline. Philly has lots of layers and the skyline looks different from every angle.
http://www.seas.upenn.edu/%7Ekiderj/blog/images/skyline1.jpg

Metsada
May 2nd, 2009, 04:03 AM
Who cares about the skyline, is it a nice city to live in? :)

philadweller
May 2nd, 2009, 04:40 AM
Someone asked me if there were any tall buildings in Philly last night. That is why I made this thread.

weird
May 2nd, 2009, 06:41 AM
Tall buildings? Comcast is almost a supertall! By the way, a cute one ;)

christos-greece
May 2nd, 2009, 11:24 AM
They are starting this next year.
http://www.basicfunction.com/board/files/comcast_uc2819.jpg

Chicago, NYC and LA are really the only large skylines in the US. Most are medium.
Comcast will be a great tower

Italic
May 2nd, 2009, 02:34 PM
Medium in the USA ?? I don't know but..

1) Comcast center : 297 m

2) One Liberty : 288 m

3) Two Liberty : 258 m

4) Mellon Bank : 241 m

5) Bell Atlantic : 225 m

and in the future there are a lot of new projects

Manolo_B2
May 2nd, 2009, 02:50 PM
in europe, this would be a really BIG skyline :lol:

erbse
May 2nd, 2009, 03:31 PM
I agree with "medium sized". I've been living in Philly for almost 6 months, great city!


Its skyline size is sorta comparable to such as Detroit, Dallas or Seattle, I'd say.

erbse
May 2nd, 2009, 04:00 PM
Charlotte (North Carolina) is somehow similar in appearance and size as well, by the by.

Northsider
May 2nd, 2009, 04:02 PM
Medium in the US , small outside of the US i would say.
I agree.
Chicago, NYC and LA are really the only large skylines in the US. Most are medium.
I would argue that even LA's is borderline medium.

jpIllInoIs
May 2nd, 2009, 04:11 PM
Its meduim, but its fantastic.... great symmetry and balance, culminating in a beautiful peak.

spartan21
May 2nd, 2009, 04:54 PM
I agree.

I would argue that even LA's is borderline medium.

LA is indeed medium, low medium at that for its population

New York and Chicago are about the only huge ones, well and possibly in the years to come Miami joins, the amount of buildings is really quite incredible.

weird
May 3rd, 2009, 01:06 AM
@christos: Comcast is already done and it's 297m. I don't know the name of the next supertall but it seems that would be over 400m+ including spire.

christos-greece
May 3rd, 2009, 11:10 AM
@christos: Comcast is already done and it's 297m. I don't know the name of the next supertall but it seems that would be over 400m+ including spire.
What is the name of the new tower, then?

regjeex
May 3rd, 2009, 03:14 PM
not bad...

weird
May 3rd, 2009, 04:19 PM
What is the name of the new tower, then?

I sought it and it's "American Commerce Centre" ;)

erbse
May 3rd, 2009, 05:36 PM
^ And here's a render of it.

http://phillyskyline.com/misc/081113_accnite.jpg
(phillyskyline.com)




I don't know yet if I like the idea of having this in the Philly skyline. Something more classical/post-modern just suits the city better than this. But it could still turn out pretty cool.

philadweller
May 3rd, 2009, 06:43 PM
I would like to more high rises along Broad Street into North Philadelphia. I think the design is too wide at the base. Philadelphia has little square blocks so I think tall skinny buildings look best. Philadelphia is lucky to have buildings with spires. Many cities are way too boxy looking.

philadweller
May 5th, 2009, 12:46 AM
Camden actually extends the skyline when looking south or north into Center City.

Italic
May 5th, 2009, 01:24 PM
the render is really amazing !

christos-greece
May 5th, 2009, 07:06 PM
^ And here's a render of it.

http://phillyskyline.com/misc/081113_accnite.jpg
(phillyskyline.com)

The rendering of American Commerce Centre tower from this angle is very nice indeed

MNiemann
May 5th, 2009, 07:50 PM
You know what...Charlotte's skyline does remind me of Philly's somehow.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3408/3180363127_d71e710ed4.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3408/3180363127_d71e710ed4.jpg

Anyway, I'm sure it's a medium skyline. I think the only large skylines in the U.S. are Miami, Chicago, and NYC.

For small you have to think Richmond, Louisville, Orlando, Austin, Phoenix, Salt Lake City, etc.

SimsPlanet2
May 5th, 2009, 10:38 PM
I think it's a big skyline, especially when you compare it to what we have in Europe. But maybe on world-scale it is medium. Though it's impressive and large!

philadweller
May 6th, 2009, 02:20 AM
It's not as long as Miami's but it's definitely beefier from all sides. Look closely at all of the Manhattan like layers when viewing the city from the south.

sobchbud
May 6th, 2009, 05:01 PM
^^ Hmmm....This looks pretty beefy to meA pic from our good ole legendary friend James Good
Miami Skyline from 13 miles Across the Bay.http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesgood/3497143314/sizes/l/
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3616/3497143314_c1ca2163b8_b.jpg


btw I love Philly's skyline, there are some great individual buildings and nice symmetry. It's medium to large for the U.S. and small internationally.

christos-greece
May 6th, 2009, 06:42 PM
You know what...Charlotte's skyline does remind me of Philly's somehow.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3408/3180363127_d71e710ed4.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3408/3180363127_d71e710ed4.jpg

Because of the towers in the photo, which looks similar to Philly... :) ?

philadweller
May 6th, 2009, 08:46 PM
I don't think that Charlotte's skyline looks anything like that of Philadelphia.
the old skyline circa 2000.
http://fc07.deviantart.com/fs20/f/2007/249/6/2/Philadelphia_Skyline_by_kingnothing.jpg
Tampa's skyline looks like a mini Philly.

diskojoe
May 6th, 2009, 09:54 PM
philly's skyline is definitely a medium but great layout for city planning. nice buildings. like the future plans too. it will be really great in the future.

philadweller
May 7th, 2009, 08:56 AM
I disagree with all of you Philadelphia has a medium to large skyline compared to what I've seen around the world. No photos that I have found really display it's hugeness.

philadweller
May 8th, 2009, 12:07 AM
http://phillyskyline.com/misc/wallpaper_090503_cityhall6.jpg

philadweller
May 8th, 2009, 05:01 AM
http://freelargephotos.com/001659_l.jpg

Mr. Potato Head
May 8th, 2009, 05:56 AM
Medium and Mediocre

Skyscraperologist
May 8th, 2009, 11:42 AM
Small, Medium, and Big are all relative. Compared with other cities of 1.4 Million, Philadelphia has a HUGE skyline. Just look at Phoenix (1.6 Million) by comparison--actually, there's no comparison.:lol:

Phoenix Downtown Skyline
http://activerain.com/image_store/uploads/5/8/1/3/7/ar121978471673185.jpg

I would say that Philly probably has the 5th most impressive skyline in the US (after NYC, Chicago, Miami, and Atlanta). That's just my opinion and it's certainly open to debate.

Mr. Potato Head
May 8th, 2009, 04:23 PM
^^ Houston, Seatlle, LA, and Minneaplis are just a handful of better skylines. And you're right that small cluster that Phoenix calls a skyline is pathetic.

christos-greece
May 8th, 2009, 05:39 PM
http://freelargephotos.com/001659_l.jpg
Big for sure

jtown,man
May 9th, 2009, 03:06 AM
This skyline is.... perfect. I love Philly, I think this skyline is what I think of when I think of a skyline with the best "peak".

philadweller
May 9th, 2009, 03:59 AM
Philly's skyline is hardly mediocre. Seattle has a big handsome, layered skyline for a city it's size.

philadweller
May 9th, 2009, 04:17 AM
Phoenix is bigger than Philadelphia believe it or not.

erbse
May 9th, 2009, 04:27 PM
Not everything's about size, eh ;)

aaabbbccc
May 10th, 2009, 07:03 AM
to me it is not large not medium I call it a medium large skyline
skylines are :
1 none
2 tiny
3 small
4 medium small
5 medium
6 medium large ( that is what philly is )
7 large
8 huge

aaabbbccc
May 10th, 2009, 07:04 AM
orlando florida where I live is a medium small and buffalo NY is considered a small
seatle is large

Primo
May 10th, 2009, 08:13 AM
Philly it has some beautiful buildings doing a very nice skyline, I would say that it is a medium+ !

philadweller
May 10th, 2009, 09:43 AM
"I call it a medium large skyline"
..and that's what it should be for America's 6th largest city. NYC is huge. Chicago is large plus.

1 none...Annapolis, Newport, Alexandria, St. Johns, Savannah, St. Augustine, Charleston
2 tiny...Trenton, Harrisburg, Madison, Stamford, Springfield, New Haven, Tucson, Wilmington, Anchorage, Manchester
3 small...Providence, Des Moines, Phoenix, Buffalo, Ottawa, Peoria, San Jose, Washington DC, Tampa, Orlando, Albany, White Plains, Rochester, Hamilton, Hartford, Tacoma, Memphis, Louisville, Mobile, Knoxvile
4 medium small...Portland, OR, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Newark, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Austin, San Antonio, Ft. Worth, Winnipeg, Edmonton, New Orleans, San Diego, Columbus, Nashville
5 medium...Charlotte, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Baltimore, Boston, Detroit, St. Louis, Jersey City, Denver, St. Paul, Jacksonville, Richmond, Long Beach, Brooklyn, San Diego
6 medium large ( that is what philly is )...Minneapolis, Dallas, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Houston, Montreal, Calgary, Vancouver, Honolulu, Rio de Janeiro, Santiago
7 large...Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, Toronto, Buenos Aires
8 huge...NYC, Sao Paulo

philadweller
May 10th, 2009, 07:08 PM
"orlando florida where I live is a medium small and buffalo NY is considered a small
seatle is large"

Seattle does not have a bigger skyline than Philadelphia. It's slightly smaller.

alheaine
May 11th, 2009, 04:29 PM
Metro Manila

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3154/2872171360_c6b8eb1122_b.jpg

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/shyaman_king/HOLIDAY%202009%20-%20FEB%2001/DSC_0077a.jpg



Makati

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6756/manilaandmakaticitymetroskylinegf7.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/71/160854900_672f584f35_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/124/416407076_349ab408ac_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2031/2224464164_2306d12002_b.jpg




Ortigas

http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/7316/dsc00013qu4.jpg



^^
what do you think of these guys?:lol:

christos-greece
May 11th, 2009, 06:20 PM
Ortigas... seems a big city, never hear about that... Some info, please; population for examble :cheers:

Nameless
May 12th, 2009, 02:46 AM
Phoenix is bigger than Philadelphia believe it or not.

Maybe the city but not the metro area.

Nameless
May 12th, 2009, 02:54 AM
Small, Medium, and Big are all relative. Compared with other cities of 1.4 Million, Philadelphia has a HUGE skyline. Just look at Phoenix (1.6 Million) by comparison--actually, there's no comparison.:lol:

Phoenix Downtown Skyline
http://activerain.com/image_store/uploads/5/8/1/3/7/ar121978471673185.jpg

I would say that Philly probably has the 5th most impressive skyline in the US (after NYC, Chicago, Miami, and Atlanta). That's just my opinion and it's certainly open to debate.

Yeah we have a pretty pitiful skyline here in Phoenix. I would definitly say it qualifies as a small skyline for a city this size.

spartan21
May 12th, 2009, 02:56 AM
"I call it a medium large skyline"
..and that's what it should be for America's 6th largest city. NYC is huge. Chicago is large plus.

1 none...Annapolis, Newport, Alexandria, St. Johns, Savannah, St. Augustine, Charleston
2 tiny...Trenton, Harrisburg, Madison, Stamford, Springfield, New Haven, Tucson, Wilmington, Anchorage, Manchester
3 small...Providence, Des Moines, Phoenix, Buffalo, Ottawa, Peoria, San Jose, Washington DC, Tampa, Orlando, Albany, White Plains, Rochester, Hamilton, Hartford, Tacoma, Memphis, Louisville, Mobile, Knoxvile
4 medium small...Portland, OR, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Newark, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Austin, San Antonio, Ft. Worth, Winnipeg, Edmonton, New Orleans, San Diego, Columbus, Nashville
5 medium...Charlotte, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Baltimore, Boston, Detroit, St. Louis, Jersey City, Denver, St. Paul, Jacksonville, Richmond, Long Beach, Brooklyn, San Diego
6 medium large ( that is what philly is )...Minneapolis, Dallas, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Houston, Montreal, Calgary, Vancouver, Honolulu, Rio de Janeiro, Santiago
7 large...Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, Toronto, Buenos Aires
8 huge...NYC, Sao Paulo

*Medium Huge: Chicago.
Atlanta, Miami, Toronto and Buenos Aires cannot be quite with Chicago's level not in my opinion.

Guaporense
May 12th, 2009, 05:37 AM
Well:

Makati has medium to large (like Philadelphia).

Manilla is bigger, about large.

My classification:

Small
Medium
Medium to large
Large
Huge
Manhattan

alheaine
May 15th, 2009, 09:12 AM
Ortigas... seems a big city, never hear about that... Some info, please; population for examble :cheers:


^^
Ortigas Center, also known as Downtown Pasig, is the second most important commercial and business district (after Makati) in Metro Manila, Philippines. With an area of at least 100 hectares, the district is located at the boundary of Pasig City, Mandaluyong City, and Quezon City. It is governed by Ortigas Center Association, Inc.

The headquarters of the Philippine Stock Exchange, which is also home to one of its trading floors of the country, is located here.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/Ortigas_Tonight.jpg

The population of Pasig City is 617,301 as of 2007. Quezon City with 2,679,450 and Mandaluyong City with 305,576.


Makati City has a population of 510,383.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2046/2182842160_1f2cef95f3_o.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Makatiskyline.jpg

It is the major financial, commercial and economic hub in the Philippines, often referred to as the financial capital of the Philippines since many global companies have their offices and headquarters in the city. Makati is also home to the influential Makati Business Club and the Philippine Stock Exchange. Ayala Avenue, running through the heart of downtown Makati Central Business District is often called the Wall Street of the Philippines.

The Metropolitan Manila population is approximately 19,200,000 and ranked 8th in the world and Manila has 1,660,714.

:banana::lol:

aaabbbccc
May 15th, 2009, 11:53 PM
capital of morocco rabat morocco a nice city with endless sprawl so many suburbs and population of 3 million in the greater rabat area no downtown at all not one single skyscraper the tallest building is only 12 stories high no much vertical buidlings there either

christos-greece
May 16th, 2009, 11:13 AM
^^
Ortigas Center, also known as Downtown Pasig, is the second most important commercial and business district (after Makati) in Metro Manila, Philippines. With an area of at least 100 hectares, the district is located at the boundary of Pasig City, Mandaluyong City, and Quezon City. It is governed by Ortigas Center Association, Inc.

The headquarters of the Philippine Stock Exchange, which is also home to one of its trading floors of the country, is located here.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/28/Ortigas_Tonight.jpg

The population of Pasig City is 617,301 as of 2007. Quezon City with 2,679,450 and Mandaluyong City with 305,576.


Makati City has a population of 510,383.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2046/2182842160_1f2cef95f3_o.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Makatiskyline.jpg

It is the major financial, commercial and economic hub in the Philippines, often referred to as the financial capital of the Philippines since many global companies have their offices and headquarters in the city. Makati is also home to the influential Makati Business Club and the Philippine Stock Exchange. Ayala Avenue, running through the heart of downtown Makati Central Business District is often called the Wall Street of the Philippines.

The Metropolitan Manila population is approximately 19,200,000 and ranked 8th in the world and Manila has 1,660,714.

:banana::lol:
Thanks for the info and for those photos too :)

minneapolis-uptown
August 3rd, 2009, 07:04 PM
Minneapolis (with less than 400,000 residents) has a very big skyline compared to some other cities with larger populations

Minneapolis Downtown:
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w150/dathribab/Minneapolis_skyline.jpg

Minneapolis Riverside:
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w150/dathribab/7085.jpg

Compare these 2 photos combined to other cities

Phoenix:
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w150/dathribab/Phoenix_skyline_Arizona_USA.jpg

Tucson:
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w150/dathribab/downtown-tucson-skyline.jpg

New Orleans:
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w150/dathribab/20041112204753New_Orleans_Skyline_P.jpg

isaidso
August 4th, 2009, 04:11 AM
Philly has a medium sized skyline, but will arguably have the 3rd best skyline in the United States if American Commerce Centre gets built. The skyline is handsome, muscular, filled with quality buildings, and has good balance.

rajesh jagetia
August 4th, 2009, 07:24 AM
Medium skyline but looks great.

Arrigo
August 4th, 2009, 10:15 PM
i like a lot philly just amazing

xavarreiro
August 5th, 2009, 03:55 AM
very nice

Eduardo L. Ramirez
August 7th, 2009, 03:17 AM
Medium in the US , small outside of the US i would say.

i would say comparable to Fujairahs skyline :)

:lol:

Phillie even looks way better than Abu Dhabi for me, sorry

I'd say -on a world scale- it already is a big skyline (light ;) )
In the US it's my No. #6

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2560/3718720305_48ac991e03_b.jpg
by gypsyk8 (flickr) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/99671652@N00/3718720305/)

Nick in Atlanta
August 7th, 2009, 03:37 AM
Philly definitely has one of the most improved Central Business District skylines in the US going back thirty years.

Blah
August 7th, 2009, 04:38 AM
Looks great if you ask me. I'd say medium-large. Love the design of the buildings by the way.

Seattlelife
August 7th, 2009, 05:21 AM
Medium to large.

And definitely bigger than Seattle's! Seattle's skyline is better known for 3 reasons imo...

1) The physical geography. There are great hills from which to snap photos, the towers are all on a hill so compared to the water they look even taller than they actually are, there's a large body of water that the skyline borders, and Mt Ranier in the background.

2) The Space Needle. Seattle is lucky to have such an iconic addition to they skyline, but it's only like 600 ft tall.

3) The skyline is especially good for Seattle's population.

Philly has an awesome skyline, definitely one of the most underrated in this country, if not the most underrated. Part of the problem is that there is no iconic tower and for a photo to really capture the skyline it needs to be taken from the air. Or so it seems.

christos-greece
August 7th, 2009, 11:09 AM
Philadelfphia's photo above is really very nice; thanks for posting it @Eduardo

Jay
August 15th, 2009, 11:02 AM
It's not New York, Chicago or Hong Kong, but to call it small is laughable, I'd call it medium-large. Philly has got a pretty big downtown and skyline, it also has a taller skyline than most US cities. In the US I would rank it (very roughly) with Seattle, Houston, San Francisco, Boston, Miami, Los Angeles, Dallas, Atlanta etc. (I suppose Toronto and Calgary too)

Also the whole, "big by american standards but small by world standards" makes absolutely no sense, American cities have more skyscrapers than most countries, by a lot. New York and Chicago have two of the biggest skylines on earth. :nuts:

It's a very good looking skyline too, I find skylines like Dubai and Abu Dhabi to be extremely tacky since there aren't really any layers, it's just huge buildings with no other buildings around them, that doesn't look too good.

Philly's probably one of the most underrated cities, ever. period.

HK999
August 15th, 2009, 12:58 PM
medium skyline in the U.S., small but sexy skyline in the world. :)

Jay
August 15th, 2009, 08:39 PM
Maybe the city but not the metro area.

Phoenix city basically is it's metro area, the city covers five times the area of philly, that's why it has "more people"

Jay
August 15th, 2009, 08:42 PM
medium skyline in the U.S., small but sexy skyline in the world. :)


Yes very sexy :)


You mean medium for the US, large for the world? Most American cities have more skyscrapers than most other countries. Most European, African, South American major cities don't really have much in the skyscraper department at all.

Jay
August 16th, 2009, 04:41 AM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2556/3730225522_d7b30b136b_b.jpg

EEplus
August 16th, 2009, 04:50 AM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2556/3730225522_d7b30b136b_b.jpg

really beautiful! looks very harmony

Jay
August 16th, 2009, 08:53 AM
^^ Houston, Seatlle, LA, and Minneaplis are just a handful of better skylines. And you're right that small cluster that Phoenix calls a skyline is pathetic.

absurd! Philly has taller buildings than seattle and minn. and a bigger skyline with more beautiful buildings than those cities (LA has 2 800 footers while Philly has 3)


I think people are just jealous of Philly:cheers:

(Nothing against Seattle and Minneapolis of course, they're great cities too):)

CTRL ALT
August 16th, 2009, 09:36 AM
absurd! Philly has taller buildings than seattle and minn. and a bigger skyline with more beautiful buildings than those cities (LA has 2 800 footers while Philly has 3)


I think people are just jealous of Philly:cheers:

Agreed, Philly has one of the largest and most beautiful skylines in the U.S id call it no less then a medium but no more than a medium large.

HK999
August 16th, 2009, 02:12 PM
Yes very sexy :)


You mean medium for the US, large for the world? Most American cities have more skyscrapers than most other countries. Most European, African, South American major cities don't really have much in the skyscraper department at all.

yeah, i was comparing the states to whole asia :lol:. guess it's a medium- large skyline then^^.

maorus
August 16th, 2009, 04:15 PM
Beautiful skyline, beautiful city full of history :) really enjoyed it when I was there