The first time around a decade ago they were talking about that frequency, but this time around docs ive seen suggest a lesser frequency on the Airport line.

Everyone says the London tube map is genius...well to me it aint.

If you live there, you know where your line goes and which stops you need.

If you are visiting and say want to go to Bucks Palace...which stop is nearest?

Must be me but maps are pretty idiot proof.

Give me the geographic map of the London Underground over a London street layout and I can do the rest, ta.

Let's not start making some poncy, art deco map...I want a `map' not an `artist's impression'

Please.

TfL have been doing geographic tourist friendly maps:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/visitor-guide.pdf
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/central-london-walking-map-sept2010.pdf

those were the links as they were sent to me watcher.

http://www.trafford.gov.uk/content/tca/display_image.asp?ImageID=6146

and

http://www.trafford.gov.uk/content/tca/display_image.asp?ImageID=2071

Is this where the GMP HQ is now?

These are on Trafford Lifetimes, a great way to waste time on a boring afternoon!
http://www.trafford.gov.uk/content/tca/

If you live there, you know where your line goes and which stops you need.

I have never lived in London and I have never had any problems understanding the London Underground map. Ditto New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Paris, Madrid and Manchester (:lol:) all of which have transit systems that I have used and are mapped in similar fashions.

Give me the geographic map of the London Underground over a London street layout and I can do the rest, ta.

No thanks, I don't want a street map cluttered up with tube lines just cos some div can't work the two together.

I have definitely seen information indicating a 6 minute weekday and Saturday daytime frequency between the Airport to Cornbrook pre 2CC and Airport to Victoria post 2CC. At other times its 12 minutes.

Twelve additional trams will be procured for the Airport line, which will
enable a minimum of five trams per hour at each tram stop, i.e. one
tram every twelve minutes, running in each direction between 06.00
and 00.30 Monday to Saturday. The financial and operational viability
of increasing the service patterns, and the number of trams, will be
reviewed in light of future passenger demand, value for money and the
future availability of funding.

It has also been agreed with Manchester Airport that a limited service
of between two and five trams per hour will operate in the period from
03.00 to 06.00 on a daily basis. The principles of the Heads of Terms
agreed with Manchester Airports Group are set out in section 4 below.

Final farewell: 120-year-old Oldham Mumps bridge demolished

Richard Wheatstone

January 24, 2011

A final farewell was made to Oldham’s iconic Mumps bridge as a five-month project to remove the landmark reached completion.

The bridge, which had stood above the town’s Mumps roundabout for 120 years, will be replaced by a new Metrolink station.

The demolition of the southern section of the bridge was completed ahead of schedule this weekend, after the northern section was removed last August.

A GMPTE spokesman said: “The work was a complete success and was completed ahead of schedule.

“It was thought the work was going to go on into the early hours of today but good progress over the weekend meant the work was finished earlier than expected.”

The completion meant traffic chiefs were able to reopen the westbound approach to the roundabout, which had been closed over the weekend for the two-day demolition.

Transport chiefs had initially delayed the removal of the southern bridge to minimise disruption over Christmas.

Mumps bridge carried the Oldham Loop railway line to Rochdale for more than 100 years but the line was closed last year.

The track is being converted into a tram line, with transport bosses saying Metrolink will reach Oldham Mumps later this year and the town centre by 2014.

Built in 1891 by Liverpool firm Holme and King, the bridge consisted of two 11ft-deep wrought-iron plate girders, each more than 100ft long and weighing more than 50 tons. The floor carrying the railway weighed a massive 80 tons.

The northern span of the bridge famously proclaimed Oldham as ‘the home of the tubular bandage’.

The advertisement was unveiled by local firm Seton in 1961 recognising Oldham’s contribution to medical science, and the firm’s partnership with the local cotton manufacturer.

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1406108_final_farewell_120yearold_oldham_mumps_bridge_demolished

Slight update to the previous post, you can actually get maps that are "all encompassing" so everyone can be happy...

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/central-london-bus-map.pdf

If the airport line does run 24/7 even at limited frequencies that would be brilliant for me, as I have to go home early on the rare occasions I go out into town because the night buses only run at weekend. Paying £12 for a taxi for just three miles down the road kills me.

I have never lived in London and I have never had any problems understanding the London Underground map. Ditto New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Paris, Madrid and Manchester (:lol:) all of which have transit systems that I have used and are mapped in similar fashions.



No thanks, I don't want a street map cluttered up with tube lines just cos some div can't work the two together.

You are aware that it was designed because `divs' could not read a standard map?

The current map is therefore for `divs'.
I want the adult, I can read a map, version!

Jeez.

tbh, they are tested on vast numbers of people and the vast majority do not have a problem with the tube maps which is why other cities all around the world use the same prinicipal.

You are aware that it was designed because `divs' could not read a standard map?

The current map is therefore for `divs'.
I want the adult, I can read a map, version!

Jeez.

Nobody is a div. Both types of mapping have their merits. Harry Beck designed his tube map because the stations, lines and interchange points in central London were too close together to be shown legibly on a geographical map. This is why he designed the schematic tube map. The only geographic feature being the River Thames.

But we are talking about Manchester here?

We don't need a schematic.

We need a nice functional map with an enlarged city centre box?

We are not 1900 London.

We are 2011 I-Phone, Android, Tablet t'internet time.

Move on!

Oldham & Rochdale Line - Oldham Mumps

Mumps (South) Bridge

Now you see it .............

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P180111_1258.jpg


Now you dont!

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P240111_1249.jpg

But we are talking about Manchester here?

We don't need a schematic.

We need a nice functional map with an enlarged city centre box?

We are not 1900 London.

We are 2011 I-Phone, Android, Tablet t'internet time.

Move on!

except no matter what year it is the gap between the top of the door and the ceiling in the tram where the map goes will always be the same shape and size that dictates these things all over the world.

Oldham & Rochdale Line - Oldham Mumps

Mumps (South) Bridge

Now you see it .............

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P180111_1259.jpg

Now you don't....

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P240111_1250.jpg

Oldham & Rochdale Line - Oldham Mumps

Mumps (South) Bridge

Now you see it .............

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P180111_1300.jpg



Now you don't ...

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P240111_1251.jpg

Oldham & Rochdale Line - Mumps from a different angle

It's hard to find out what's happening inside the hoardings at the former Oldham Mumps station site. So yesterday I tried to have a view from the south side, from the street called Southlink - close to the Royal Mail sorting office.

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=393412&Y=404952&A=Y&Z=110

There are no hoardings on the south side, only the mesh fence, but the view was blocked by a lot of trees and saplings. I apologise in advance for the lack of clarity in the shots. I could make out that the Mumps compund up until now has been the home for all spoil from the demolished viaduct as well as sleepers and other materials for the new line.

Once the spoil is removed, (some good stone in there by the way) I think work in bringing down the line towards road level at Mumps roundabout can start in earnest.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P230111_1337.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P230111_1342.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P230111_1340_04.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P230111_1340_02.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P230111_1340.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P230111_1337_01.jpg

Oldham & Rochdale Line - Mumps (South) Bridge - Another Angle

This is viewed from south of Mumps roundabout: http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=393459&Y=405129&A=Y&Z=110

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P240111_1252.jpg

24/01/2011 - 15.35 Altrincham, Bury and Eccles line.

Metrolink Services.

A 6 minute service is operating on the Bury and Altrincham line.

A 12 minute service is operating on the Eccles line.

Due to a points failure at MediaCityUK, services into and out of MediaCityUK are currently suspended. Metrolink apologise for any inconvenience this may cause to your journey.

^^ :ohno:

I wonder what the problem is. It's not looking too promising for an early opening for the Chorlton / Droylsden lines if they can't get a 400m spur working after nearly 5 months.

^^ :ohno:

I wonder what the problem is. It's not looking too promising for an early opening for the Chorlton / Droylsden lines if they can't get a 400m spur working after nearly 5 months.

Was there when it happened...not sure what happened but alot of chaps in high viz jackets running about, there were even two bananas back to back at Broadway, and generally trams everywhere one looked.

Hi

They talking about Mumps bridge in Oldham Chronicle today and some picture they take too.

http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/8/news-headlines/51988/bridge-finally-disappears

^^ :ohno:

I wonder what the problem is. It's not looking too promising for an early opening for the Chorlton / Droylsden lines if they can't get a 400m spur working after nearly 5 months.

I don't know what the problem is with the Media City Line but it is not reason for imagining that we can no longer build a light railway and that whatever problems they are having will automatically be duplicated across the system.

I don't know what the problem is with the Media City Line but it is not reason for imagining that we can no longer build a light railway and that whatever problems they are having will automatically be duplicated across the system.

Well surely the points at the Chorlton line (outbound and inbound) will be controlled by the same system.

Well surely the points at the Chorlton line (outbound and inbound) will be controlled by the same system.

And loads of other working perfectly sets of points as well!

And loads of other working perfectly sets of points as well!

I thought the MediaCity points were being controlled by the new Tram Operating System. I didn't realise the rest of the network was as well.

I thought the MediaCity points were being controlled by the new Tram Operating System. I didn't realise the rest of the network was as well.

rest of the network will be. i think you mean.

Twelve additional trams will be procured for the Airport line, which will
enable a minimum of five trams per hour at each tram stop, i.e. one
tram every twelve minutes, running in each direction between 06.00
and 00.30 Monday to Saturday. The financial and operational viability
of increasing the service patterns, and the number of trams, will be
reviewed in light of future passenger demand, value for money and the
future availability of funding.

It has also been agreed with Manchester Airport that a limited service
of between two and five trams per hour will operate in the period from
03.00 to 06.00 on a daily basis. The principles of the Heads of Terms
agreed with Manchester Airports Group are set out in section 4 below.

Thanks for that I hadn't seen that document, I take it its from some GMITA minutes. I suppose the 6 minute frequency has to wait for the other side of the original loop if it's ever built.

I thought the MediaCity points were being controlled by the new Tram Operating System. I didn't realise the rest of the network was as well.

No, not the rest of the network but even just on the Chorlton line the crossover at ST Werburgs seem to be working perfectly well.

No, not the rest of the network but even just on the Chorlton line the crossover at ST Werburgs seem to be working perfectly well.

Is it not manually operated at the moment?

Is it not manually operated at the moment?

Oh heck!

Yes yes, we're all domed, no doubt it will take them at least five years to get the system up and running.
No doubt that they have a major problem but they are carrying on blindly replicating the problem over and over again.

Strewth!

Has Victoria-Central Park opened? I saw electric wires, but I didn't know wether it is running///

In a word - no.

Chorlton line looking like the first to open!

In two words: Right!!!!! tHANKS!

Damn Caps

Oh heck!

Yes yes, we're all domed, no doubt it will take them at least five years to get the system up and running.
No doubt that they have a major problem but they are carrying on blindly replicating the problem over and over again.

Strewth!

:chill:

I was just pointing something out. Don't have a period.

By the way I posted some pictures from Oldham. :D

By the way I posted some pictures from Oldham. :D

Hehehe :lol:

Thanks! Great pics! Much appreciated.

Can I remind the worriers on here that when the first banana were turning up there was mass panic that they would not fit through the Collyhurst tunnel, and then panic at every stage when there was a slight hitch.

Can I remind the worriers on here that when the first banana were turning up there was mass panic that they would not fit through the Collyhurst tunnel, and then panic at every stage when there was a slight hitch.

I'm not a worrier. Nor do I call opening a 400 metre spur in September and still not having it working correctly in January "a slight hitch" :baeh3:

I'm not a worrier. Nor do I call opening a 400 metre spur in September and still not having it working correctly in January "a slight hitch" :baeh3:

What would you call it then, a national disaster?

It is a slight hitch.

No one has been injured, there has been no catostophic failure of the entire system.

Sure, it's taken a long time but christ, these projects have issues like this.

Remember the WCML, how late and over budget that was?

That project had problems, MC is a slight hitch that'll be sorted out and forgotten about in no time.

And how much of the problem is related to the original driver error?

Fantastic before and after shots Ashtonian, I'd been waiting for someone to do the honours as I don't get down that way too often. The difference in light is a real benefit to the area - I can't believe one bridge made it so dark and dingy.

Greetings pop-pickers, from the East Side. Fully agree, High-Fi ^^.

(btw one thing I have always liked about this thread has been the lack of bickering and sarcasm you sometimes get on other forums, especially football!) I have always found it to be about sharing enthusiasm for the developing tramways around Manchester, so here's a quick shufty around to-day, to see what's been happening lately :-

In Droylsden, the first rails have now been laid across Market Street in the town centre :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9718.jpg

Further West, these new rails are very close to the semis on the right, to allow for right-turning traffic :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9719.jpg

Some more bits of rail have appeared in the industrial no-man's-land, behind Croft Street in Clayton :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9667.jpg

The same bit seen from the other end near Canalside Crossing :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9670.jpg

Trafford Bar, where the incoming Chorlton line arises from the 'ghostly underworld' ! :-

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/ChorltonGSJ.jpg
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9672.jpg

I was also in Oldham to-day, so here's a few shots now that both viaducts have gone, to complement the excellent 'before and after' pictures posted by Ashtonian. . .

Mumps roundabout now has an airy and wide-open feel to it, without the ugly red tin structures, in this shot looking East :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9675.jpg

From the same spot panning further to the right :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9676.jpg

Now looking at the same scene from the other side facing West. The newly created grade down from the temporary Mumps station is on the left :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9688.jpg

Panning right again, having descended from Mumps, the metro will cross the middle of this area, left<> right at ground level :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9683.jpg

Continuing to the right, it will then rise up again between the grey fencing, to pick up the old elevated alignment towards Derker and Rochdale :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9684.jpg

Will it still be a roundabout? Plans have not yet been published, but this is taken from the middle of the alignment, first facing Mumps :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9700.jpg

Then turning 180 degrees towards Derker, and where the alignment rises between Bell street and Brook Street :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9694.jpg

Therefore, like many other places on Phase 3, this area will also involve a series of 'roller-coaster' changes of grade. The climb up to the old Mumps station will only last a couple of years, however :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9702.jpg

Instead it will eventually turn West up Union Street (c2014). So it's goodbye to the old viaducts, and bring on the future! :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9707.jpg

In the meanwhile, over on Winterbottom Street a couple of miles to the West, preliminary perambulations were already taking place in preparation for the 3b town centre route, between Westwood tram stop and the Oldham Way slip road. The alignment will move away from the camera through the trees, swinging up to the right alongside the slip road :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9673.jpg

As somebody who was born in Oldham (Glodwick) and spent the first 12 years growing up in Oldham (Lees mainly) and now living in Western Canada, I really appreciate all of the updates and especially the pictures. I vaguely remember Mumps before all of the tracks were ripped up. The Delph Donkey had just closed when I was born and I used to walk the old embankment. Many things have changed in the past 40+years. The Oldham Loop line had two trains an hour int he day, hourly in the evening and none at all on Sunday.

I do remember taking excursion trains on two occassions - once was direct from Oldham Mumps to Blackpool via Victoria, the other was direct to York reversing at Victoria to take the line via Ashton-U-Lyne - something that will never happen with a tram line.

Oh Yeah - Miles Platting Station also existed and Oldham trains used to stop there to and from Victoria.

looks like fun and games at picc gardens today, passed through at about 3.30 today and there was 2 t68s and a :banana: sat there all not in service website said there was a failed tram and service had been suspended between the gardens and picc station with eccles trams going to victoria

Hi

I take some picture at South Chadderton today and here they are

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5219/5387220855_6722b00803_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work/5387220855/)
South Chadderton Platform (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work/5387220855/)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5213/5387825392_0b8364a725_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work/5387825392/)
South Chadderton Platform 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work/5387825392/)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5212/5387825530_9eeea2aef0_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work/5387825530/)
South Chadderton Platform 3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work/5387825530/)

Also U can found other picture that I take on this link

http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work/

One thing that bugs me about Oldham...

How come they decided to remove the grade seperation if it is going to head back up to the embankment anyway? Surely thats a bit of a step backwards? Could have been an elevated station.

One thing that bugs me about Oldham...

How come they decided to remove the grade seperation if it is going to head back up to the embankment anyway? Surely thats a bit of a step backwards? Could have been an elevated station.

That was in the original plans.

However, they thought it makes more sense from a buildability point of view to have the line at street level when the time comes for the 3c diversion through the town centre. Otherwise you'd have a lot of closure time when the entire viaduct would have been demolished in the future.

Hi

I take some picture at South Chadderton today and here they are

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5219/5387220855_6722b00803_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work/5387220855/)
South Chadderton Platform (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work/5387220855/)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5213/5387825392_0b8364a725_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work/5387825392/)
South Chadderton Platform 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work/5387825392/)
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5212/5387825530_9eeea2aef0_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work/5387825530/)
South Chadderton Platform 3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work/5387825530/)

Also U can found other picture that I take on this link

http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work/

That platform is a bit small isn't it?

That platform is a bit small isn't it?

They are just the access ramps. The actual platform will go ontop of the concrete plinth in front of the ramp, the orange and purple pipes will be under the platform.

OK here we go, photos first:

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/tram%20tests/IMG_0729.jpg

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/tram%20tests/IMG_0731.jpg

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/tram%20tests/IMG_0732.jpg


Cheers Martin. It looks like these two trams are both being driven in the same direction towards the camera, one of them 'wrong-road' for the purpose of testing clearances between the two lines. I suppose that if there had in fact been a terrible miscalculation, and one line was fouling the other, it's better to find out in a way which avoids any friction between vehicles travelling in opposite directions!!!

Here is a picture of the same procedure taking place before the opening of Phase 1 in 1992, with both trams about to emerge together from Aytoun Street, by the side of the old GMPTE offices :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/IMG-24.jpg

photo c/- Metrolink Commemorative Volume, John Senior & Eric Ogden, TPC 1992

That reminds me of the grand openings of Phase 1. Unlike Luas in Dublin, I don't think Metrolink will give free travel on the first day of the new phase 3 lines, as someone suggested on here (unless there is some kind of blob they have to apologise for!).

In 1992, there were special 'go-as-you-please' commemorative tickets for the first day only - 'All-day' tickets were not normally available in the early years, as in general there were only single and return tickets, and if memory serves you had to order those special tickets through the post in advance. I still have my copies - note they didn't commit themselves to a specific date for the line openings, just in case! :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/IMG_0001-25.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/IMG_0002-21.jpg

Happy days!

RO2bapurdie - many thanks for the pictures of South Chadderton, etc. This is yet another location which was previously elevated, but will now come down to the ground and back up again!! Trams and light railways can do this fairly easily.

Indeed JDR they were testing clearance, it wasn't very interesting to watch - they drove one tram a trams length, the other one drew up alongside, then men spent 5 minutes walking around them checking clearance. I was on that bridge for about half an hour just to get those photos!

DAMN I forgot to go to the meeting on hardy lane tonight!! Did anyone go? I wanted to ask them questions about the airport line!

Silver Trams with Yellow Fronts

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/051907-009-WarehouseLRTstation.jpg/800px-051907-009-WarehouseLRTstation.jpg

Just sayin'

(Minneapolis for the record)

Urghh thats disgusting Tonk.

and:

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/IMG_0002-21.jpg

All day rover ticket prices have gone down since 1992????

Perhaps they were more expensive because they were commemorative tickets.

Hi all long time viewer here first time posting.Have enjoyed all your pics & saved hundreds of them since this thread started hope to look back on them someday.

Read a few pages back that Gdogg brought up about Throstle's nest & remembered forwarding the links to him last year after reading he had posted about the junction.
I was always fascinated by the tunnels being blocked up when i was a kid growing up walking down Elsinore Rd & Talbot Rd.It was great to see the picture posted of the new line now approaching the blocked tunnel.

So i did some more searching and found that Manchester Gov had a picture taken from pretty much the same location in 1911 so it is amazing to see the same view 100 years later.

Here is the link hope it works

http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web/pages/common/imagedisplay.php?irn=61551&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=60671


Just type in Nest on the search too they have a few more pictures of the junction around that time.(I'd recommend typing in Throstle's too but somehow they have managed to have it written it as Thorstle on a few pics).

Also i'm sure there are pictures of the line around Chorlton & Trafford Bar Station construction too on the site.

Indeed JDR they were testing clearance, it wasn't very interesting to watch - they drove one tram a trams length, the other one drew up alongside, then men spent 5 minutes walking around them checking clearance. I was on that bridge for about half an hour just to get those photos!

DAMN I forgot to go to the meeting on hardy lane tonight!! Did anyone go? I wanted to ask them questions about the airport line!

You have to be joking?

The track are x meters apart, the tram is on the rails, the tram is x metres wide, they cannot touch.

Or

Let's put them side by side and squeeze through the gap.

Surely not.

Dear Lord. Is this engineering in 2011?

:)

Councillor Ankers (on Twitter) went to the meeting, he saying most of his concerns about Chorlton Meadows explained and is happy.

You have to be joking?

The track are x meters apart, the tram is on the rails, the tram is x metres wide, they cannot touch.

Or

Let's put them side by side and squeeze through the gap.

Surely not.

Dear Lord. Is this engineering in 2011?

:)

TRUE, I watched this from the bridge at morrison,s, one tram moved a tram lengh,followed by the next tram ,and when side byside loads of men in orange coats were checking measurements .On the plus side it was good to see the trams come into chorlton at speed.

You have to be joking?

The track are x meters apart, the tram is on the rails, the tram is x metres wide, they cannot touch.

Or

Let's put them side by side and squeeze through the gap.

Surely not.

Dear Lord. Is this engineering in 2011?

:)

Your forgetting a few factors, they will rock at high speed and lean into corners, the tracks also have to be vertically straight (someone may cock up and they may be tilted a couple of degrees) therefore they have to check theirs still adequate clearances at these points.

Your forgetting a few factors, they will rock at high speed and lean into corners, the tracks also have to be vertically straight (someone may cock up and they may be tilted a couple of degrees) therefore they have to check theirs still adequate clearances at these points.

Might be the same engineers who worked on the new Boeing Jet..B787?

Still pretty funny to watch.

Top Gun, Miramar for pilots.

Top Luggage, Droylsden for tram drivers.

Let's see if this baby can turn at 100. Yeeeeeeh haaaaar

Your forgetting a few factors, they will rock at high speed and lean into corners, the tracks also have to be vertically straight (someone may cock up and they may be tilted a couple of degrees) therefore they have to check theirs still adequate clearances at these points.

It's also not a matter of contact, there is a minimum clearance between trams and between trams and structures (trains too) which must be met to allow the line to even open. Calculating the clearances from site measurements for every possible tram position takes LONGER than doing it by measuring between the trams in the first place.

The clearance tolerances on light rail are miniscule to allow best advantage in route, whereas heavy rail we slap on 100mm extra clearance and don't worry so much, mostly.

This also identifies every last error, not just the ones you think you see.

Might be the same engineers who worked on the new Boeing Jet..B787?

Still pretty funny to watch.

Top Gun, Miramar for pilots.

Top Luggage, Droylsden for tram drivers.

Let's see if this baby can turn at 100. Yeeeeeeh haaaaar

As Joseph says clearnces to items like centre mounted OLE poles and platofrms are very tight compared to heavy rail. Cleances between platform edges must be between 40 and 50mm i believe and the height difference is even tighter. Compare this to the the distance you have to step across when getting off a train or bus.

As Joseph says clearnces to items like centre mounted OLE poles and platofrms are very tight compared to heavy rail. Cleances between platform edges must be between 40 and 50mm i believe and the height difference is even tighter. Compare this to the the distance you have to step across when getting off a train or bus.

Thanks for that info...you learn something new everyday!!

It's good having the low down... how busy will the city centre be when these new routes open...I know there is a cross city line planned elsewhere..but the expansion is huge. Will most trams terminate at Picc/Victoria and passengers swap trams or not?

Ta

Hi all long time viewer here first time posting.Have enjoyed all your pics & saved hundreds of them since this thread started hope to look back on them someday.

Read a few pages back that Gdogg brought up about Throstle's nest & remembered forwarding the links to him last year after reading he had posted about the junction.
I was always fascinated by the tunnels being blocked up when i was a kid growing up walking down Elsinore Rd & Talbot Rd.It was great to see the picture posted of the new line now approaching the blocked tunnel.

So i did some more searching and found that Manchester Gov had a picture taken from pretty much the same location in 1911 so it is amazing to see the same view 100 years later.

Here is the link hope it works

http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web/pages/common/imagedisplay.php?irn=61551&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=60671


Just type in Nest on the search too they have a few more pictures of the junction around that time.(I'd recommend typing in Throstle's too but somehow they have managed to have it written it as Thorstle on a few pics).

Also i'm sure there are pictures of the line around Chorlton & Trafford Bar Station construction too on the site.

hey aaron, thanks again for the links. when you click on this latest one it brings up the picture you state, but there is no search box for further viewing?

you can clearly see in this picture though the bridge under altrincham line, the one under talbot road then the one leading to the cutting next to chester house.

Hi all long time viewer here first time posting.Have enjoyed all your pics & saved hundreds of them since this thread started hope to look back on them someday.

Read a few pages back that Gdogg brought up about Throstle's nest & remembered forwarding the links to him last year after reading he had posted about the junction.
I was always fascinated by the tunnels being blocked up when i was a kid growing up walking down Elsinore Rd & Talbot Rd.It was great to see the picture posted of the new line now approaching the blocked tunnel.

So i did some more searching and found that Manchester Gov had a picture taken from pretty much the same location in 1911 so it is amazing to see the same view 100 years later.

Here is the link hope it works

http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web/pages/common/imagedisplay.php?irn=61551&reftable=ecatalogue&refirn=60671


Just type in Nest on the search too they have a few more pictures of the junction around that time.(I'd recommend typing in Throstle's too but somehow they have managed to have it written it as Thorstle on a few pics).

Also i'm sure there are pictures of the line around Chorlton & Trafford Bar Station construction too on the site.

Aaron,

Thanks for the link. Photos of this area are particularly rare due to their inaccessibility to the public. The photo highlighted appears to show the Elsinore Rd bridge in the foreground with the Altringham line behind and the tunnel entrance beyond.

hey aaron, thanks again for the links. when you click on this latest one it brings up the picture you state, but there is no search box for further viewing?

you can clearly see in this picture though the bridge under altrincham line, the one under talbot road then the one leading to the cutting next to chester house.

Look here;-

http://images.manchester.gov.uk/

remember the old adage - measure twice cut once (or not at all in this case)

Aaron,

Thanks for the link. Photos of this area are particularly rare due to their inaccessibility to the public. The photo highlighted appears to show the Elsinore Rd bridge in the foreground with the Altringham line behind and the tunnel entrance beyond.

Yes i'm pretty certain the bridge in the foreground has to be Elsinore Rd bridge due to the other bridge visible which is the one that still carries the Altrincham line


Also thanks for posting the link to the site Chorlton Bloke.Sorry for the confusion that's where i meant you can search for more pictures

Anyone heard that two newly built bridges (one road+track bareing, the other track bareing only) need to be removed and replaced due to a design fault?

Yes i'm pretty certain the bridge in the foreground has to be Elsinore Rd bridge due to the other bridge visible which is the one that still carries the Altrincham line


Also thanks for posting the link to the site Chorlton Bloke.Sorry for the confusion that's where i meant you can search for more pictures


Thank you so much Aaron, I'm fascinated by this area and you have shed yet more light on how it used to be!!! :-)

EDIT: to round this off (as is a bit off topic!) here is how the northern portal of the tunnel that can be seen from the Chorlton line looks today:

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/IMG_0543.jpg

I love it... :)

Anyone heard that two newly built bridges (one road+track bareing, the other track bareing only) need to be removed and replaced due to a design fault?

Probably as true as most of the rumours that followed the intoduction of the m5000's. In other words, not true.

DAMN I forgot to go to the meeting on hardy lane tonight!! Did anyone go? I wanted to ask them questions about the airport line!

Yes I missed it too, but I thought it might be a bit of a gloomy location and a long way home in the dark!!

Why don't we all meet up at the one at Wythenshawe Forum, 3pm onwards on Wednesday 9th Feb? It's a more convivial venue than some of the others, with a large open refectory area where you can get a drink and something to eat.

Welcome, Aaron - the throstle nest tunnels look even gloomier and more sinister on the old pictures! Martin, is that the very same spot in that last overgrown picture, where the inbound Chorlton now rises up?

Yes I missed it too, but I thought it might be a bit of a gloomy location and a long way home in the dark!!

Why don't we all meet up at the one at Wythenshawe Forum, 3pm onwards on Wednesday 9th Feb? It's a more convivial venue than some of the others, with a large open refectory area where you can get a drink and something to eat.

Welcome, Aaron - the throstle nest tunnels look even gloomier and more sinister on the old pictures! Martin, is that the very same spot in that last overgrown picture, where the inbound Chorlton now rises up?

not martin, but yes it is. the track now rises to the left of this picture.

Think the new and old trams look good tomorrow! At least they're actually testing clearances!

not martin, but yes it is. the track now rises to the left of this picture.

No, no, it's the other end of the tunnel, at Throstles Nest.

No, no, it's the other end of the tunnel, at Throstles Nest.

ah bugger you are right. i have looked through those railings myself before.

As Joseph says clearnces to items like centre mounted OLE poles and platofrms are very tight compared to heavy rail. Cleances between platform edges must be between 40 and 50mm i believe and the height difference is even tighter. Compare this to the the distance you have to step across when getting off a train or bus.

:lol: They must have forgotten to do that at Langworthy as the trams mirrors hit the OHLE pole when entering the stop from the Eccles end. The marks on the pole are a dead giveaway:lol:

Thank you so much Aaron, I'm fascinated by this area and you have shed yet more light on how it used to be!!! :-)

EDIT: to round this off (as is a bit off topic!) here is how the northern portal of the tunnel that can be seen from the Chorlton line looks today:

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/IMG_0543.jpg

I love it... :)

Yes that is the view i remember from Talbot Rd.Walked past that a lot growing up in the 90's when it wasn't so overgrown & didn't have a clue where the tunnel went lol.

Thanks for the photo Martin great way to round off the topic

:lol: They must have forgotten to do that at Langworthy as the trams mirrors hit the OHLE pole when entering the stop from the Eccles end. The marks on the pole are a dead giveaway:lol:

I was wondering when someone would make reference to the Langworthy Tree

I was wondering when someone would make reference to the Langworthy Tree

The clearance to that pole was fine when built but a combination of rail sidewear and wear in the mirror mechansims meant that the clearnace diminished. The inside edage of the outer rail wears on curves effectively allowing the tram to move over a little. The mirrors on the T68As were more complex than the originals and had to protrude more to allow the driver to see down the side of the tram when moving. As they wore there was slack in the mechansims allowing the mirror to swing out a bit as the tram entered the curve. This allowed it to hit the pole. As the mirrors are removed and replaced by camera the problem will go away.

Thank you so much Aaron, I'm fascinated by this area and you have shed yet more light on how it used to be!!! :-)

EDIT: to round this off (as is a bit off topic!) here is how the northern portal of the tunnel that can be seen from the Chorlton line looks today:

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/IMG_0543.jpg

I love it... :)

One final word, thanks for the photo Martin, I'm ancient enough to have travelled on the line and well remember this sequence of bridges and tunnel. This also confirms the unknown location here:

http://neilsrailwayphotos.fotopic.net/p50561296.html

Anyone heard that two newly built bridges (one road+track bareing, the other track bareing only) need to be removed and replaced due to a design fault?

Probably as true as most of the rumours that followed the intoduction of the m5000's. In other words, not true.

This is direct from someone close to on-site management.

Had a quick look over the Bridge on Wilbraham Road today and saw quite a few men working on what appeared to be the track itself. I hope that dosn't mean they have found problems.

One final word, thanks for the photo Martin, I'm ancient enough to have travelled on the line and well remember this sequence of bridges and tunnel. This also confirms the unknown location here:

http://neilsrailwayphotos.fotopic.net/p50561296.html

That doesn't look like the same tunnel mouth to me. Compare the brickwork between Neil's 1982 pic and the modern photo. Neils photo is of the same tunnel seen in this photo, and is the site of Throstle Nest South Junction, which by 1982 was of course no longer a junction. The curved retaining wall is a dead giveaway:

http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=61549

I think the modern photo is another tunnel further south.

This aerial view shows where I mean;
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=sx995tgt90z3&lvl=18.215793840391772&dir=7.510624601084995&sty=b&eo=0&where1=Manchester%20United%20Football%20Club%2C%20United%20Kingdom&q=old%20trafford

It looks like there is another tunnel mouth between Talbot Road and the MSJ&A (now Metrolink), and the line is then in a short cutting until diving under Talbot Road. Throstle Nest South Junction was, I think, in the triangular car park opposite the tower block (GMP building?), so the tunnel mouth in Neil's 1982 pic would have been somewhere near the wedge of grass at the 'bottom' of the car park.

I've walked round most of this line doing maintenance, around the time of Neil's photo, it always seemed a dark and gloomy place, but I regret not taking photo's when I had the chance.

You're right, the 1982 photo is indeed at the "point" of today's triangular car park. I've not seen any old pictures of the overgrown tunnel in my photo above... sure some exist somewhere!!

You are right, observe the brick panels in the parapet in one photo, absent in the other.

Interesting, the parapet at the tunnel portal beyond which the lines diverge can still be seen on Google Maps.

http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.462307,-2.279274&spn=0.000383,0.000862&t=h&z=20

Or from Google Street view, the wall made of blue Engineering bricks, with it's distinctive pilasters as shown in the 1982 photo and the Manchester Archive photo:
http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.461797,-2.279321&spn=0.000383,0.000862&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=53.461829,-2.279151&panoid=d94GDb5qdYGqVxsOo9AWmA&cbp=12,354.91,,2,1.78

Beyond this wall would have been the deep cutting in which the rails would have emerged.

Got some pics of Didsbury today. Will post them tonight. (just flat land TBH)

That doesn't look like the same tunnel mouth to me. Compare the brickwork between Neil's 1982 pic and the modern photo. Neils photo is of the same tunnel seen in this photo, and is the site of Throstle Nest South Junction, which by 1982 was of course no longer a junction. The curved retaining wall is a dead giveaway:

http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=61549

I think the modern photo is another tunnel further south.

This aerial view shows where I mean;
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=sx995tgt90z3&lvl=18.215793840391772&dir=7.510624601084995&sty=b&eo=0&where1=Manchester%20United%20Football%20Club%2C%20United%20Kingdom&q=old%20trafford

It looks like there is another tunnel mouth between Talbot Road and the MSJ&A (now Metrolink), and the line is then in a short cutting until diving under Talbot Road. Throstle Nest South Junction was, I think, in the triangular car park opposite the tower block (GMP building?), so the tunnel mouth in Neil's 1982 pic would have been somewhere near the wedge of grass at the 'bottom' of the car park.

I've walked round most of this line doing maintenance, around the time of Neil's photo, it always seemed a dark and gloomy place, but I regret not taking photo's when I had the chance.

This is really interesting. I think we're all agreed that the location of Neil's photo is Throstle Nest South Jcn. If this is not the same portal as in Martin's photo then what portal has Martin photographed? The south portal of the tunnel can be seen in a previous photo where it emerges next to the Altringham line where the new Metrolink track leaves the old formation. This doesn't have the same profile as in Martin's photo and I would agree with gb that the tunnel wasn't continuous but had a short section in a cutting which can still be seen in the aerial photos. I think Martin has photographed the south portal of the first section of the tunnel, a part of which can just be seen in Neil's photo.

This is really interesting. I think we're all agreed that the location of Neil's photo is Throstle Nest South Jcn. If this is not the same portal as in Martin's photo then what portal has Martin photographed? The south portal of the tunnel can be seen in a previous photo where it emerges next to the Altringham line where the new Metrolink track leaves the old formation. This doesn't have the same profile as in Martin's photo and I would agree with gb that the tunnel wasn't continuous but had a short section in a cutting which can still be seen in the aerial photos. I think Martin has photographed the south portal of the first section of the tunnel, a part of which can just be seen in Neil's photo.

it looks like the one adjacent to talbot road to me.

I hear the Alty line is closed the weekend following this one.

Connection to Chorlton line ongoing?

The Eccles line is closed then too. Wonder what for.

I hear the Alty line is closed the weekend following this one.

Connection to Chorlton line ongoing?

There has been a lot of work alongside the depot near Old Trafford. A lot of Signal concrete bases and posts for the signals to go on and the like.

Thr Manchester to Chorlton inbound junction has the signal display mounted on the post now as well with a bin bag over it.

On a similar note, those small GPS receivers that we saw on the Chorlton line and MC extension are now up in the centre of Manchester. Theres one just outside Victoria station where the line crosses Corporation Street.

On a similar note, those small GPS receivers that we saw on the Chorlton line and MC extension are now up in the centre of Manchester. Theres one just outside Victoria station where the line crosses Corporation Street.

Are they the things that look like Wireless Network Access point things?

White box with a white aerial, mounted on the top of an overhead support?

Thats the one apologiesforthedelay. Some one said it was a 'Mesh' Network.

Hopefully it all means that LOS and TOS are getting nearer to us all the time. (Sounds a bit like Cox & Box or Itchy and Scratchy!) (Or Joe Loss and his brother Ded).

Anyway, apparently, rumour has it that Mr Purdy has given an undertaking not to close Mosley Street until the NADI ('Next Altrincham Departure Indicator') is up and running . . .

So then we can all be up and running one way, and probably arrive just as it changes back to the other way . . . :banana2::rofl::banana2:

it looks like the one adjacent to talbot road to me.

Yes, that would be the one in the bottom right of this old photo, although it only looks correct if you mirror Martin's photo, unless the red brick wall was added later.

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad200/Vernon151/Throstle6.jpg

I also found another one of the junction.

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad200/Vernon151/Throstle4.jpg

Droylsden to-day :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9765.jpg

A few random shots of the industrial no-man's-land behind Clayton, where there has been some new laying this week :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9782.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9775.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9770.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9787.jpg

The Eccles line is closed then too. Wonder what for.

Wonder if it's to finish the painting? They will have to get a lift cardle thing for the higher parts which have been left? Shame tbough that they haven't put the yellow signs up (EXCEPT AT mc and Broadway). They would look good. Also seems a bit daft leaving the shelters in the blue colour. I was hoping they would be replaced with bigger ones.

Wonder if it's to finish the painting? They will have to get a lift cardle thing for the higher parts which have been left? Shame tbough that they haven't put the yellow signs up (EXCEPT AT mc and Broadway). They would look good. Also seems a bit daft leaving the shelters in the blue colour. I was hoping they would be replaced with bigger ones.

I think I read somewhere that more illuminated flags will be erected at various stops, I did contact Mr Purdy last year about this, as visitors to the area would find the stops more easily, EG Langworthy should have one on the Corner of Langworthy Rd and Eccles New Rd.

As for the Shelters remaining blue apparently they couldn`t be painted yellow as they belong to JCDecaux and not Metrolink.

I think I read somewhere that more illuminated flags will be erected at various stops, I did contact Mr Purdy last year about this, as visitors to the area would find the stops more easily, EG Langworthy should have one on the Corner of Langworthy Rd and Eccles New Rd.

As for the Shelters remaining blue apparently they couldn`t be painted yellow as they belong to JCDecaux and not Metrolink.

That's good to hear. Maybe they will be repainted in silver when Decaux next paint them. They have been painted gray in Didsbury Village. Jopefully the OHLE poles will become silver and bronze. Imagine how different Piccadilly Gardens would look then.

I can't see the east Manchester line opening too soon judging by those pictures, they seem to be about 12 months behind the Chorlton line but maybe they are working quicker on it.

I can't see the east Manchester line opening too soon judging by those pictures, they seem to be about 12 months behind the Chorlton line but maybe they are working quicker on it.

I think they only want to open it to City's ground by August.

But I can't see that happening either to be honest.

The following was off this document back in November

http://www.gmita.gov.uk/downloads/file/3264/item_06a_capital_projects-5_november_2010

METROLINK CAPITAL PROGRAMME UPDATE


Members highlighted the current problems associated with rolling out the new Tram Operating System and increased criticism generally about the Metrolink network during the period of network expansion. Members sought assurances that the problems with the Tram Operating System would be resolved soon.

Officers confirmed that the roll out of the Tram Operating System onto the existing network was being undertaken in sections during which a number of complications have been encountered. Extensive testing has been undertaken to ensure the smooth interface to the Trams Operating System. During the testing period an anomaly had been identified and work with the contractor was now underway to address the issue. The Committee was assured that there were no safety implications to consider.

It was agreed that the Committee receive a presentation on the Tram Operating System at the 14 January 2011 meeting of the Capital Projects Committee.

Did anyone hear anything about the presentation on the TOS?

I can't see the east Manchester line opening too soon judging by those pictures, they seem to be about 12 months behind the Chorlton line but maybe they are working quicker on it.

the chorlton line is dead eye straight and built in an old railway alignment. the east manchester line is much more complicated build.

2006 has been given a shiny new bumper :banana:

I can't see the east Manchester line opening too soon judging by those pictures, they seem to be about 12 months behind the Chorlton line but maybe they are working quicker on it.

Joy, those pictures of Clayton are further out than Man City, to where rumour has it they are trying to open for the football season from the town end, ahead of schedule.

On the street running sections Clayton-Droylsden they did lose about 4-6 weeks during the big freezes, but recent letters to residents from GMPTE have said they are now going to get a spurt on, to try and finish the road disruptions all in one go if poss. So perhaps they might catch up the schedule for Droylsden, due 12 months after Chorlton/C Park. ('Spring' lasts officially till about June 21!)

However, on the section between Picc and Man City, I saw to-day the first OHLE span wires on the East Manc line, between New Islington and Merrill Street.

Shelters waiting to be erected at New Islington (I think this will look terrific once they remove the white portakabins - the canal runs between the portakabins and the apartments called 'CHIPS' - if that's what they are meant to be, the bottom ones look a bit burnt!) :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9796.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9797.jpg

OHLE brackets:-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9811.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9812-1.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9805.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9806.jpg

Span wires :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9813.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9815.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9820.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9822.jpg

So there may be some truth in the rumour after all . . . ?

the chorlton line is dead eye straight and built in an old railway alignment. the east manchester line is much more complicated build.

I know that, I meant I wonder if they are working more quickly on the east manchester line. I realise the east manc line is a lot more complicated.:cheers:

Some of my mates are thinking of moving to Drolysden so if the metrolink is ready it will make going to their local boozer very easy from Chorlton :)

Thank you for the photographs.

Is there any evidence that the road crossing before Holt Town will be light controlled?

I would think this must be the case, but I can see no evidence of cable being laid for traffic lights.

The track through Piccadilly Gardens was full of cigarette ends when last I went there. Does anyone know how the laid East Manchester track will be cleared of debris initially, and then kept that way?

East Manchester Line - Future Ashton Terminus

Standing at Oldham Rd and facing west, (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=393536&Y=399278&A=Y&Z=110) the Metrolink will come towards the camera.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P290111_1427_01.jpg

Turning the other way to the East you can see the following. The whole area leading up to the Ashton terminus is fenced off and works going on by Enterprise on behalf of National Grid Gas. I can only think that since there were properties here, there are gas mains to be disconnected and taken out as advance works.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P290111_1427.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P290111_1428.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P290111_1429.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P290111_1429_02.jpg


I look forward to the day when platforms will be constructed here:
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P290111_1429_01.jpg

New tram appeared to be being delivered to Queens Road today :banana: - assume it was 3026 as the reports were that 3001 wouldn't be back until March!

New tram appeared to be being delivered to Queens Road today :banana: - assume it was 3026 as the reports were that 3001 wouldn't be back until March!

Indeed it was! 3026 trundling down the m602 early this morning.

I went along the chorlton line today, not much activity there just 1027 working at Firswood. There was a line of barriers just before the underpass to TB and stop signs (like the ones used at mediacity) on the tracks near the depot so no testing today, it seems.

the lights at firswood and chorlton were on last eve at 8pm so maybe keeping them on all the time at night now?

Does anyone know if all the new stops will have their lift shafts clad in brick like at Firswood? The bare concrete is so ugly!

Does anyone know if all the new stops will have their lift shafts clad in brick like at Firswood? The bare concrete is so ugly!

I doubt it, they would have done it by now.
I think the bare concrete looks rather good, especially with the concrete platforms, retaining walls etc..

Does anyone know if all the new stops will have their lift shafts clad in brick like at Firswood? The bare concrete is so ugly!

They are pre cast shafts so the finish you can see will be the final finish.

As for brick vs concrete, give me concrete any day! :cheers:

Seems strange that they would use brick at one stop and then concrete at others, on the same line?

3005 just headed outbound from Cornbrook, not in service.

More Chorlton testing maybe?

Yes it does. Perhaps to do with Firswood being in an area of brick housing, other stops not.

Ah Ok, makes sense. I'm going to stroll down to Werby's and see if there's anything going on; I was at Firswood earlier and the track was still blocked off from the main line, maybe they've removed it and let a tram loose! Woop woop!

No trams, but LOTS of dog mess. Seriously, it's f***ing DISGUSTING. All over the gravelled area underneath the ramp up to St Werburghs Road. Even on the kerb around the bottom of the ramp. And on the gravelled area under the bridge. These people are scum! There's CCTV at the foot of the ramp, I hope they catch these people and shame them publicly!!!

On a lighter note, does anyone know why they didnt go for single poles in between the tracks rather than at either side? There are areas of single poles but id have though it was cheaper and so they would have done more of it!

On a lighter note, does anyone know why they didnt go for single poles in between the tracks rather than at either side? There are areas of single poles but id have though it was cheaper and so they would have done more of it!

I think the single poles are used on straight stretches,the double poles on curves where there is more side ways strain on the wires.

I hear the Alty line is closed the weekend following this one.

Connection to Chorlton line ongoing?

Hi

I found this on GMPTE website about this Weekend Engineering Work

Saturday 5 and Sunday 6 February 2011 engineering work will affect both the Eccles and Altrincham tram services.

Replacement Bus Services

Altrincham line
Trams will run from Altrincham to Old Trafford only, every 12 minutes. All trams will be double vehicles.
Altrincham replacement buses will run:
Old Trafford to Piccadilly, calling at all stops to Piccadilly Station.

Eccles line
There will be no trams running on the Eccles line.
Eccles replacement buses will run:
Eccles to Piccadilly, calling at all stops to Piccadilly Station except Pomona.

Note: Replacement buses do not call at Mosley Street. The nearest replacement bus stop for Mosley Street is Piccadilly Gardens.

Passengers should buy their tickets from Metrolink
Ticket Vending Machines as normal before boarding replacement buses.

Normal tram services will resume on the Altrincham and Eccles lines from the start of service on Monday
7 February.

Also this

Preparation begins for improvements to Metrolink Bury line

Advance work that will pave the way for improving Bury line Metrolink stops for passengers will begin today.

The improvements, to take place later this year, will include repairs, deep-cleaning, better lighting, more CCTV coverage, better cycle facilities, lift refurbishments, and repairing and upgrading canopies.

The work will begin by clearing vegetation from the areas around the Metrolink stops between Bury and Crumpsall.

Philip Purdy, GMPTE's Metrolink Director, said:

"Clearing some of the overgrown vegetation will improve visibility and security for passengers using the stops, and will also enable us to carry out the further improvement works we have planned - which are essential if we're to bring the stops on the Bury line up to the same standard as those on the newly refurbished Altrincham line.

"We expect this clearance work to continue for four weeks starting on Monday 31 January, and we will work with our contractors to ensure that disruption to residents and businesses is kept to a minimum.

"Normal services on the line will continue.

"We take our environmental responsibilities very seriously, and before the work was scheduled, ecological surveys were carried out on site so we could be sure that there were no protected species present.

"The work is being done now to avoid any disturbance to wild birds, and should be complete by the end of February, before their nesting season begins."

Saturday 5 and Sunday 6 February 2011 engineering work will affect both the Eccles and Altrincham tram services.

Altrincham line
Trams will run from Altrincham to Old Trafford only, every 12 minutes. All trams will be double vehicles.
Altrincham replacement buses will run:
Old Trafford to Piccadilly, calling at all stops to Piccadilly Station.

Eccles line
There will be no trams running on the Eccles line.
Eccles replacement buses will run:
Eccles to Piccadilly, calling at all stops to Piccadilly Station except Pomona.


I guess that means some work around Cornbrook. Can't be the City Centre or they would run trams to, and turn around at either Cornbrook or D-C. Anyone have any ideas?? TOS hopefully :banana:.

I guess that means some work around Cornbrook. Can't be the City Centre or they would run trams to, and turn around at either Cornbrook or D-C. Anyone have any ideas?? TOS hopefully :banana:.

Well they need TOS/LoS up and running as far as Trafford Bar for the Chorlton line to become operational, so here's hoping it's something to do with that.

East Manchester Line - Future Ashton Terminus

I can only think that since there were properties here, there are gas mains to be disconnected and taken out as advance works.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P290111_1427.jpg

I look forward to the day when platforms will be constructed here:
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/P290111_1429_01.jpg

Thanks for the pix of Ashton, Ashton! Great to see so much activity at the end of the line on 3b. The properties there in fact were a large block of flats with balconies, mainly elderly people who were distressed to lose their homes. Insult was added to injury when the Metrolink was then cancelled in 2004, just as the flats were about to be demolished :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/IMG_0003-4.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/IMG-26.jpg

Hopefully those people will have had a better sense of closure, now that common sense has at last prevailed!

Thanks JdR for the pics of the flats. In hindsight, they could have got 5/6 extra years in their homes.

As somebody who was born in Oldham (Glodwick) and spent the first 12 years growing up in Oldham (Lees mainly) and now living in Western Canada, I really appreciate all of the updates and especially the pictures. I vaguely remember Mumps before all of the tracks were ripped up. The Delph Donkey had just closed when I was born and I used to walk the old embankment. Many things have changed in the past 40+years. The Oldham Loop line had two trains an hour int he day, hourly in the evening and none at all on Sunday.

I do remember taking excursion trains on two occassions - once was direct from Oldham Mumps to Blackpool via Victoria, the other was direct to York reversing at Victoria to take the line via Ashton-U-Lyne - something that will never happen with a tram line.

Oh Yeah - Miles Platting Station also existed and Oldham trains used to stop there to and from Victoria.

Greetings from overseas, lightrail, and thanks for your comments and nostalgia!

Here are some historic pictures of Miles Platting (he also has an eponymous avatar on here!), taken from a nice book "Miles Platting to Diggle via Ashton" by Jeffrey Wells (Book Law/Railbus ISBN I 899624 18 X) :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/IMG_0005-3.jpg

The booking hall :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/IMG_0006-4.jpg

Straddling the subway is the window cleaning platform, which runs on its its own rails along the window cills. One of the rails has an unusual buffer-stop arrangement :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/IMG_0007-4.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/IMG_0008-2.jpg

It's on to-days news that rail travel is now at its highest since the halcyon days, and ever-increasing. So I wonder how many more old lines and stations will re-open in our lifetimes . . . ?

It's on to-days news that rail travel is now at its highest since the halcyon days, and ever-increasing. So I wonder how many more old lines and stations will re-open in our lifetimes . . . ?

MP could be harder than some of the others - the subway was filled with concrete when the platforms were finally removed in 1998.

It may be quicker for people of MP to wait for a NR station at Central Park, ideal for NR-Metrolink interchange.

Just a quick link to the PDF plans showing the vegetation clearance works on the Bury line.

From our friends again at the TAG Manchester Website.

http://tag-mcr.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2751:metrolink-bury-line-stops-removal-of-treesvegetation&catid=11:tram&Itemid=15

Metrolink takes another step forward

The arrival of Metrolink in Oldham town centre is taking a step forward this week with work beginning to clear some trees and vegetation along the route of the new line.

The clearance is set to commence at the beginning of this week and is expected to take approximately four weeks to complete, with the majority of work taking place around Middleton Road, Manchester Street roundabout and Oldham Way.

To limit environmental impact, Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive (GMPTE) has carried out a number of detailed ecological surveys in the area, including recording the number of trees, and will put in place measures to safeguard protected species.

Philip Purdy, GMPTE's Metrolink Director, said: "We take our environmental responsibilities extremely seriously and are committed to doing all we can to mitigate impact on the environment when building the new Metrolink lines.

"We will only remove trees which we must remove in order to build the new Oldham town centre line; where it is not necessary to remove trees or vegetation, we will not.

"As part of our environmental policy, we are also committed to providing more trees than we remove and we will put in place measures to safeguard protected species and offer improved wildlife habitats, as agreed with Natural England."

Construction on the new Metrolink line from Manchester to Oldham and Rochdale is already underway with the line to open to Central Park and Oldham Mumps this year and to Rochdale railway station in 2012.

Work has also started on the extensions through Oldham and Rochdale town centres, which are expected to be complete in 2014, providing a tram every six minutes to Manchester city centre and a tram every twelve minutes to Rochdale.

http://www.gmpte.com/2009_news.cfm?news_id=9006085?submenuheader=3

On Sunday a couple of road/rail vehicles ran to the end of the South Manchester line.

Here they are passing Chorlton tramstop :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9828.jpg

On the foot crossing just North of St. Werburgh's Road :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9830.jpg

Heading on towards St Werburgh's Road tramstop in the distance :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9831.jpg

And away they go past the headshunt and on into Phase 3b territory. They seem to be doing a bit of landscaping on the left (and right) :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9832.jpg

A bit later, looking back from Mauldeth Road West towards St Werburgh's Road. (btw it's a bloody long walk to get there while all the accesses are still fenced off!!) Anyway, in the meantime the one on the left must have used the trailing crossover, then run 'wrong-road' to the point where the East Didsbury and Airport lines will one day diverge :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9838.jpg

Looking from the same bridge the opposite way, down the 3b line towards Withington, there is a construction compound on the left, to where the other one has continued as a road vehicle :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9839.jpg

That must have been be why it was pulling while the first one was pushing . . .

Johnny, are you very tall?

Only I'm quite tall and I can't get a clear view over those parapets:)

He doesnt need to see over, just get his camera above :)

He doesnt need to see over, just get his camera above :)

If I did that you'd see some superb sky shots:)

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9828.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9831.jpg


(Great shots agin JdR & others above^^:cheers:)

It's all looking remarkably neat and sooooo nearly finished!!!!:banana:

Some more work going on at Cornbrook this weekend and trams terminating at Old Trafford, so it seems all systems go for the Chorlton connection!

Meanwhile back on the Rochdale Extension, Harbour Lane bridge Milnrow has now been craned into position. Pedestrians only.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5255/5410595646_0db793c90b_z.jpg

Thankyou to Milnrow Trainrider again

Hi

I found this on Metrolink website talking about what the doing at Cornbrook Viaduct this weekend

Overnight working on the Cornbrook Viaduct
Work is taking place on the Metrolink line running across the Cornbrook Viaduct.

To avoid disruption to tram services we will need to work overnight over the next couple of weeks to complete works which could not be carried out due to the extreme weather experienced in December 2010. We are aiming to carry out as much of the work as we can between 8am and 8pm at the weekend of the 5th to 6th of February, although there will still be overnight work outside these times. This work is being carried out as part of the programme of works to modify the track alignment at Cornbrook.

This will be followed by the next phase of work to roll out Metrolinks new management system. This piece of work is expected to run from mid February to early Spring. We dont expect this work to cause a lot of noise.

It is anticipated that there will be a short period of track works (welding and stressing of rails) in late Spring 2011 following the commissioning of the tram management system. We currently anticipate this will be the final phase of the non-routine maintenance works in the Cornbrook Viaduct area and we will look to provide a further update on this as the work progresses.

The works will inevitably cause some noise. We will aim to keep any disturbance to a minimum. Measures will be adopted to reduce noise wherever possible, for example, by the use of silenced generators, by switching off machinery when it is not in use and by completing any noisy work as quickly as possible. Where possible noise attenuation screens will be placed around the works to absorb and deflect the noise away from neighbouring properties. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause.


All out of hours works have been agreed in advance with Manchester City Council.

Please note that construction sites can be dangerous places, sites are fenced in for the protection of the public. For your own safety, please do not try to access the site. There will be no need for anyone to enter your property or business.

He doesnt need to see over, just get his camera above :)

Not particularly tall, but with the camera on the parapet, I can just about make out the image on the back - the amount of 'sky' seems to be the best guide for when to press!! Of course, there are other alternatives . . . .:soapbox:

Evening all, been following all the pics and info and very interesting to, now pardon for being a thick but not knowing the area around where the depot is at Queens road I was wondering if anyone can explain a few things.

Now I am aware of the new section running to Oldham and beyond but the area around smedley viaduct is having track and such like laid, did pass today but unable to stop, now the question I ask is this the original line from Victoria to Oldham and it's just being upgraded or was it unused as a branch line many moons ago and where did it run to.

Cant seem to find any pics from when they used to leave Victoria for Oldham traveling up toward Queens road or did they go in a completely different direction.

Sorry for sounding confused but cant place it in my head.

Rgds

Andy

Evening all, been following all the pics and info and very interesting to, now pardon for being a thick but not knowing the area around where the depot is at Queens road I was wondering if anyone can explain a few things.

Now I am aware of the new section running to Oldham and beyond but the area around smedley viaduct is having track and such like laid, did pass today but unable to stop, now the question I ask is this the original line from Victoria to Oldham and it's just being upgraded or was it unused as a branch line many moons ago and where did it run to.

Cant seem to find any pics from when they used to leave Victoria for Oldham traveling up toward Queens road or did they go in a completely different direction.

Sorry for sounding confused but cant place it in my head.

Rgds

Andy

The track arrangements in the Irk Valley date from 1904/5, and allowed the tracks in the new bay platforms at Victoria to communicate with the Collyhurst loop to and from Thorpes Bridge Junction by the Smedley Viaduct.

Three bay platform services did not. The Stalybridge service ran by the old Miles Platting Bank, branching off at Miles Platting Station, as before. The direct Rochdale and Middleton locals also continued on the old route by Platting Bank. The Bury via Prestwich service did run through the new tunnel but continued on past the junction.

However, the remaining services from the bay platforms branched off at the junction and down the Smedley Viaduct. These were:-

Oldham and Rochdale.
Royton
Bury (Knowsley Street) via Castleton (later extended to Bacup).

Trainguard

Andy, I wouldn't worry. Quite a few people find the routing confusing!

Ill roll out my lovely paint diagram again lol

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/Metrodiagram.jpg

There was some some debate as to when the Cheetham Hill Loop was closed and we narrowed it down Summer 1998 when the new signalling centre was opened in Salford taking over a number of boxes in the north Manchester area.

Edt, train Guards discription is better than mine. Beat me to it.

Andy, I wouldn't worry. Quite a few people find the routing confusing!

Ill roll out my lovely paint diagram again lol

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/Metrodiagram.jpg

There was some some debate as to when the Cheetham Hill Loop was closed and we narrowed it down Summer 1998 when the new signalling centre was opened in Salford taking over a number of boxes in the north Manchester area.

Edt, train Guards discription is better than mine. Beat me to it.

i was there for that very debate. if you wish to see pictures of this alignment pre metrolink, they are buried in bowels of this thread somewhere. try starting at july 2010 and work forward. if you skip the posts and just look for pictures it shouldnt take you long...

...you never know your luck, whoever posted them in the first place might spare you the trouble and repost them (i have no idea who it was by the way, but JDR is a likely candidate).

Nice headline in the men Today. They could of come on here and we could of told them the news months ago. SSC first for news !

Nice headline in the men Today. They could of come on here and we could of told them the news months ago. SSC first for news !

Yeah front page news. Not good for metrolink. Wouldn't surprise me if they read the problems on here and followed it up to get the facts.

There's been all this talk about predictions when the Chorlton line will be up and running but there are clearly major issues with the software. These could go on for a lengthy period and hold everything up for months, potentially.

What's confusing is a don't see how such a software product can't be 'off the shelf'. It'd need configuring but not customising. It should have full support by the vendor to get it up and running and would be no different than it's use on any other light rail/bus network.

I'd like to see them assemble a separate team to utilize the existing GPS/satellite transmitters and other hardware (presuming the fault doesn't lie in this area) with the software from another vendor as a contingency.


http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/transport/s/1407079_revealed_new_computer_system_caused_all_mediacity_metrolink_failures

Revealed: New computer system caused ALL MediaCity Metrolink failures

A multi-million pound computer system designed to revolutionise Metrolink has caused misery for commuters during a trial run.

Passengers on the Manchester-Eccles line have suffered a total of 60 hours of delays due to a string of problems on the MediaCity ‘spur’ in Salford Quays.

The £19.75m extension was opened in September.

Data obtained by the M.E.N. shows it has been the site of an astonishing 24 failures – causing delays of up to five hours – since it opened as part of the Eccles route.

We can reveal the cause of ALL the problems was a new computerised tram management system being tested on the spur.

It is due to be rolled out across the whole network, costing taxpayers millions of pounds.

The new system – called TMS – uses artificial intelligence to control points and signals.

It is able to pinpoint the location of trams to within a few metres.

Comment: Danger of losing faith in our trams

Trams have been only running during off-peak hours on the MediaCity extension since late December to minimise disruption. And transport bosses point out that when trams have ground to a halt on the spur, other Manchester-Eccles services have been able to pass without delay.

Philip Purdy, Metrolink director at Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive, said testing of the new system had involved ‘working through a series of adjustments to the management of trams in that section’.

He said: “The process we are following has, on occasions, led to some disruption to services to the new stop and I apologise for any inconvenience this has caused. I can assure all passengers that while adjustments are being undertaken, the operating procedures that are in place ensure that the safety of the system is maintained at all times.”

A transport watchdog called for immediate action to solve the problem.

John Moorhouse, from passenger group TravelWatch Northwest said: “It’s bad news for passengers if the system is causing all these failures. All steps need to be taken to ensure these trams run reliably.”

The quarter-mile MediaCity spur was part-funded by Salford council and regional bodies.

It will serve more than 2,500 BBC employees when departments including Five Live and sport begin their move from London later this year.

other Manchester-Eccles services have been able to pass without delay.


:lol:

What's confusing is a don't see how such a software product can't be 'off the shelf'. It'd need configuring but not customising. It should have full support by the vendor to get it up and running and would be no different than it's use on any other light rail/bus network.

software developers selling systems as base units and having the end user develop it into what they want is quite common. we are going through a similar process ourselves at my work at the minute.

the thinking behind it is that the end user knows what they want more than any third party developer ever could. plus it is also cheaper for the developer.

24/12/2010 - Cancellation of planned engineering work

The weekend closure of the Altrincham and Eccles services for Saturday 5 and Sunday 6 February 2011 has now been cancelled. Services will run as normal during this time.

Metrolink apologises for any inconvenience.

^^

Not particularly tall, but with the camera on the parapet, I can just about make out the image on the back - the amount of 'sky' seems to be the best guide for when to press!! Of course, there are other alternatives . . . .:soapbox:

I took some photos from here in 2002 and had to hold the camera at arms length over my head and take rough aim. At least with digital cameras you can delete the pics that are no good.

Hi Folks. I'm starting a work experience placement in Salford Quays tomorow. I'll be getting the train from Liverpool Lime Street into Manchester. Which station is best to get off to catch the tram into Salford Quays? Also, which tram stop should I get off when I get to the quays- Salford Quays or Harbour City? I'll be working in the Quay West building next to the War Museum.

Thanks people.

It depends which train from Liverpool you get - if you get the stopper to Oxford Road that calls at Deansgate, then you want to change to Metrolink there, if you get a fast train then you will need to change to Metrolink at Piccadilly, and if you get the stopping Victoria Train then there are a few options - will you be getting the same train each morning, if so, do you know which one?

Hi Folks. I'm starting a work experience placement in Salford Quays tomorow. I'll be getting the train from Liverpool Lime Street into Manchester. Which station is best to get off to catch the tram into Salford Quays? Also, which tram stop should I get off when I get to the quays- Salford Quays or Harbour City? I'll be working in the Quay West building next to the War Museum.

Thanks people.

Best station to get off the train is piccadilly, you can get the ecless line tram from there.

For Quay west, media city is the closest stop.

I'll be getting the 07:13 which calls at Oxford Road. Which gets into Piccadilly at 08:01. (i.e. 48minutes). I'll be getting that one each morning too.

I'll be getting the 07:13 which calls at Oxford Road. Which gets into Piccadilly at 08:01. (i.e. 48minutes). I'll be getting that one each morning too.

You might possibly save a few minutes if you got off at oxford road and walked to st peters square to catch the tram.

Piccadilly then unless you fancy a few minutes walk to St Peters Square from Oxford Road.

Thanks for your help fellas. Much appreciated. I look forward to spending more time in Manchester!

Or get a train from Liverpool Lime St to Manchester Victoria and change at Eccles?

There was some some debate as to when the Cheetham Hill Loop was closed and we narrowed it down Summer 1998 when the new signalling centre was opened in Salford taking over a number of boxes in the north Manchester area.

The last passenger train on the Cheetham loop (probably a 142) ran at about 2200 on the night of the 14th September 1998. It used a temporary junction arrangement at Victoria (in and out of platform 6), handsignallers and a similar ruse at Thorpes Bridge to get to Castleton.

I wasn't there to see it go, but I was about the following morning when Manchester North SCC was commissioned and the loop was clipped out for the last time.

The track was lifted during the two or three months that followed.

If you arrive at 8 Am you wont be able to get a tram stopping directly at Media City as their not running before 10am, you will have to get an Eccles and get off at Harbour City, follow the pedestrian signs to the Lowry then take the footbridge across the canal to Quay West.

^^

not entirely sure how cancelling a disruption would cause any inconvenience...:bash:

^Someone may have already changed their plans due to the anticipated disruption!

^^:ohno::ohno::ohno:
^^

Oh dear, dear, dear..it's come to something when they are apologising to us for the fact that we have to use the tram instead of the bus.....lol

Even better, nobody yet has mentioned the date that brilliant piece of info was supposed to be issued. The 24th december last year. :bash: So if they knew then it was cancelled why did they only announce it last week that is was going ahead:nuts::nuts::ohno::ohno:.

So by going on that brilliant communication maybe the drivers have every right to be unhappy about the new operating system where communications have to inform them if a tram has broken down and to watch out..... crash bang, "Oops, Metrolink would like to apologise for forgetting to tell you all of a breakdown":lol:

Andy, I wouldn't worry. Quite a few people find the routing confusing!

Ill roll out my lovely paint diagram again lol

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/Metrodiagram.jpg

There was some some debate as to when the Cheetham Hill Loop was closed and we narrowed it down Summer 1998 when the new signalling centre was opened in Salford taking over a number of boxes in the north Manchester area.

Edt, train Guards discription is better than mine. Beat me to it.

Thanks Tony, with the help of your diagram then goggle maps all makes sense now. Just could not quite get me head around the missing bit.

Even better, nobody yet has mentioned the date that brilliant piece of info was supposed to be issued. The 24th december last year. :bash: So if they knew then it was cancelled why did they only announce it last week that is was going ahead:nuts::nuts::ohno::ohno:.


I'm sure that is just an error.

Hi Folks. I'm starting a work experience placement in Salford Quays tomorow. I'll be getting the train from Liverpool Lime Street into Manchester. Which station is best to get off to catch the tram into Salford Quays? Also, which tram stop should I get off when I get to the quays- Salford Quays or Harbour City? I'll be working in the Quay West building next to the War Museum.

Thanks people.

Hi

Have u try jounery planner that might help u

http://www.traveline-northwest.co.uk/journeyplanner/enterJourneyPlan.do

I do one for u

http://www.traveline-northwest.co.uk/journeyplanner/showJourneyDetailsPage.do?rid=1296767875766&hss=s9anz19918865

I missed the meeting AGAIN!! Anyone go??

If you arrive at 8 Am you wont be able to get a tram stopping directly at Media City as their not running before 10am, you will have to get an Eccles and get off at Harbour City, follow the pedestrian signs to the Lowry then take the footbridge across the canal to Quay West.
The HC outbound stop (to Eccles) is about 100m farther away from the Lowry than HC inbound or Broadway, which are pretty much the same distance.

Yeah but if you dont know the area the signposts run from HC, there arent any at Broadway.

Yeah but if you dont know the area the signposts run from HC, there arent any at Broadway.

It might be worth Dane's while having a dummy run on goggle street view which evr station he uses.

not entirely sure how cancelling a disruption would cause any inconvenience...:bash:

Welcome to Metrolink - we apologise for any convenience we have accidentally caused you. :nuts:

I missed the meeting AGAIN!! Anyone go??

Some of us (2 at present!) are going to the one at Wythenshawe Forum on Weds, 9.2.11 @ 3pm. Anyone else?

Oh!! It was "3pm" not "3rd Feb"! I'm an idiot. I would like to go! Where on Earth is the Wythenshawe Forum?! :-D

Yeah but if you dont know the area the signposts run from HC, there arent any at Broadway.
Yes, that's true. I just take it for granted that people will know which way the ship canal is!

Got some photos to upload later. Had a good mooch up to COMS, amazing progress! They are almost onto the tidying up stage in some areas. The works compound at Holt Town is gone. The line out of the tunnel at ASDA now has three lines. Velopark station has platforms. New Islington also has all of its shelters in place. Pollard street is fully tarmaced and Merill street has all its road markings back.

Looks like the lines at the back of Piccadilly could be connected up at any time now. The breakhut is gone, the platform in the middle of the tracks is also gone and the tracks end in temporary buffer stops. The metal fencing is also gone, so you see in really clearly now. The trams are right there, almost in daylight!! :D. I only managed to get photos from inside of the undercroft due to all the workers being outside the back. Ill get some better ones on Sunday.

Thats all for now.

Tony

Nice one Tony. Looking forward to seeing the pics.

Oh!! It was "3pm" not "3rd Feb"! I'm an idiot. I would like to go! Where on Earth is the Wythenshawe Forum?! :-D

The Forum is a massive community centre with all sorts of facilities, swimming, library, theatre, flower arranging, the whole bit. It's the main establishment in the centre of Wythenshawe, at the Western side of the shopping precinct, the Bus station being on the Eastern side. Ask anyone in the town centre for the Forum, Martin. It has a big open refectory/cafeteria in the central circulating area, where we will meet?

Been away for some time.

How regular are the TOS failures on MC these days?

Are we starting to see the instances of problems starting to diminish yet?

Got some photos to upload later. Had a good mooch up to COMS, amazing progress! They are almost onto the tidying up stage in some areas. The works compound at Holt Town is gone. The line out of the tunnel at ASDA now has three lines. Velopark station has platforms. New Islington also has all of its shelters in place. Pollard street is fully tarmaced and Merill street has all its road markings back.

Looks like the lines at the back of Piccadilly could be connected up at any time now. The breakhut is gone, the platform in the middle of the tracks is also gone and the tracks end in temporary buffer stops. The metal fencing is also gone, so you see in really clearly now. The trams are right there, almost in daylight!! :D. I only managed to get photos from inside of the undercroft due to all the workers being outside the back. Ill get some better ones on Sunday.

Thats all for now.

Tony

Tony, I took a few pix near Man City today also - I will bob them on later if they are any good. It really does look like they are pushing to get it open later this year, as far as the stadium at least . . .:banana::cheers::nuts: One of these days we will bump into each other!

Here are the photos as promised, slightly late :nuts:

Starting from Piccadilly and working out towards Velopark station

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000687.jpg

Looking towards daylight from inside the under-croft. As you can see there's plenty more light coming in now

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000685.jpg

Small section of overhead wires as Johnny had photographed the other day at New Islington

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000686.jpg

Looking down Merill Street towards Holt Town

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000683.jpg

Holt Town with the construction compound now removed. Seems to a small section of narrow gauge down there lol

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000682.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000684.jpg

COMS

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000673.jpg

Tunnel time warp...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000143-1.jpg

16/11/09

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000631-1.jpg

29/10/10

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000676.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000675.jpg

04/02/11

Velopark station

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000679.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000677.jpg

Could it be ready by August?

Oh!! It was "3pm" not "3rd Feb"! I'm an idiot. I would like to go! Where on Earth is the Wythenshawe Forum?! :-D

If you live in Chorlton then either walk along to Princess Road or Southern Cemetery and catch buses 101 (every 10 mins and it actually says forum on the front) or the 104 or 105 and they all drop you off at the forum's front door!

Looking at Tony's picies that looks a long way back thank 6months compared to where Chorlton line was 6 months ago, and that hasn't really had trials start on it yet.

Sorry, these are a bit duplicatory of Tony's pix (we always seem to be in the same place without meeting! - btw I was thrilled with that one of the 'treble formation' coming into being at Alan Turing Way - didn't realise that was already there).

Wirlie, yes its looking like all of these opening dates might now be optimistic, not least because of the apparently intractable problems with TOS & LOS, etc. MEN is full of complaints in postbag again to-day, but I guess the front page headline the other day has done what Motortownman and others have been exhorting on here for a while, i.e. putting pressure on whoever has the ability to get it sorted. But I still think that rather than coming from antipathy to Metrolink or pure negativity, the frustration arises because everyone loves the tramway so much that they want it to be right!! (Being able to get from A to B without complications would probably help as well!)

Anyway, off soapbox :soapbox: here are these pictures which show progress in the East from one or two different angles :-

From Great Ancoats Street, you can just see that the platform shelters have now been erected at New Islington tramstop. (I love the derelict Auld Lang Syne public house on the right, which the owner has refused to sell, so they have had to build around it! Perhaps it will open again?) :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9885.jpg

Holt Town from Cambrian Street :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9917.jpg

The Medlock Bridge from Cambrian Street :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9912.jpg

The same bridge from New Viaduct Street :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9904.jpg

Man City :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9898.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9897.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9896.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9893.jpg

Platforms going in at ASDA (Velopark) :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9866.jpg

And just East of ASDA, another one of my favourite spots, Canalside Crossing (again!) :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9865.jpg

Wonderful photos, thank you Tony & Johnny.

I esp liked the 3 photos comparison of the Alan Turing tunnel. What a transformation. Will look even better once the overheads are installed.

I think even though I'm a stones throw from the new Chorlton line, the East Mcr is my favourite. I don't support City, but I'll use the excuse of going up to the big ASDA :)

Tony, do you know if there are plans to revamp the Piccadilly new undercroft entrance / exit at all. Just looks a little shabby..?

Good shots Johnny. I know, were getting pretty good at this shadowing business lol. I like the one looking down the tunnel entrance towards New Islington, all we need are the bananas!

Scouse, they have started tiding up round there already, all the tree saplings sticking out of the wall are gone, looks about 10 times better with out the horrible palacade fencing aswell

....plans to revamp the Piccadilly new undercroft entrance / exit at all. Just looks a little shabby..?

Agreed. The back entrance (excuse the expression) will probably get some attention, and needs it, but the front entrance (easy) is as poor in many ways.

Back in mid 1990s meself and others suggested to GUMPTY that where the trams slide in and out (steady) of the Picc undercroft there should be much better branding. That situation has slightly improved, (and the entranceways to the revamped Picc station taxi/parking/drop off are an excellent example of what could be done) but if there was anywhere that needed a really huge sign and branding stuck up is on that wall onto London Road.

If someone can upload a few piccies of that side I'll attempt to mock up summink in photocrop.

:-)

but if there was anywhere that needed a really huge sign and branding stuck up is on that wall onto London Road.

Why? It's a wall.

They seem to like those yellow archways now, so why not paint the outside of the tunnel portals yellow at London Road, that should attract some attention :cheers:

Agreed. The back entrance (excuse the expression) will probably get some attention, and needs it, but the front entrance (easy) is as poor in many ways.

Back in mid 1990s meself and others suggested to GUMPTY that where the trams slide in and out (steady) of the Picc undercroft there should be much better branding. That situation has slightly improved, (and the entranceways to the revamped Picc station taxi/parking/drop off are an excellent example of what could be done) but if there was anywhere that needed a really huge sign and branding stuck up is on that wall onto London Road.

If someone can upload a few piccies of that side I'll attempt to mock up summink in photocrop.

:-)

From Google Street View:

http://i54.************/2e5shkw.jpg

http://i53.************/15rxro2.jpg

the front entrance (easy) is as poor in many ways.

if there was anywhere that needed a really huge sign and branding stuck up is on that wall onto London Road.

:-)

Fully agree Mark, it's more than just a wall, it's arguably one of the most important gateways to Metrolink. The GMPTE webcam

http://www.gmpte.com/corporate/webcam.cfm

gives an overview of the significance of this point as a main transport node in Manchester, and the public domain has also been improved massively by the new footbridge over London Road. There is actually a pedestrian entrance to Metrolink at ground level beside the tracks (as there will be also at the back passage), although you would hardly know that until you are right beside it. (It's the little door on the left in the first of Future's google views above).

Great big lit-up yellow sign, please, with the diamond dots! :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_4307-1.jpg

The Media City service failures and causes:

http://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?snapid=131211

The Media City service failures and causes:

http://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?snapid=131211

How 'up to date' is that?

Is there anything to read into the fact the last failure was 3 weeks ago, or is the dataset old?

Probably a week to two weeks old. What I find remarkable is for the most part the problems are fixed very quickly minimising the length of disruption.

I do wonder how representative this small section, of bi-directional track is compared to say the Chorlton line.

I wonder how many of the problems being experienced here are 'relevant' to the rest of the network for example?

http://www.gmpte.com/corporate/webcam.cfm



Nicely-positioned camera. Great for catching trams roll by! In fact, I just caught a T-68 emerging from Piccadilly:

http://i52.************/2sb1zwn.jpg

Nicely-positioned camera. Great for catching trams roll by! In fact, I just caught a T-68 emerging from Piccadilly:

http://i52.************/2sb1zwn.jpg

Look at the classic simplicity of those openings! How well they fit with their surroundings, how could they possibly be improved by garish yellow decoration?

Luv this. Only because its quite a unique section and I find the arches under the station fascinating.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000687.jpg
When trams do eventually go straight through here, am i right in thinking that this will be left as raw as it currently is? Or will there be additional platforms, advertising boards, entrances etc. ie an extension of how it currently stands. Don't really know where I got that impression from.

Is it fairly safe to say construction is more or less finished on the Chorlton line? Is it a case of testing and getting TOS working? Looking at the track and stations I can't see what else is left..?

All theyve talked about is adding another pedestrian platform entrance on that side of the station.

Is it fairly safe to say construction is more or less finished on the Chorlton line? Is it a case of testing and getting TOS working? Looking at the track and stations I can't see what else is left..?

yeah quite sure its just getting TOS on the section between TB & SPS. Then they can uncover those PIDs and litter bins and get going. BUT when is the TOS going to be ready??? who knows! :bash:

yeah quite sure its just getting TOS on the section between TB & SPS. Then they can uncover those PIDs and litter bins and get going. BUT when is the TOS going to be ready??? who knows! :bash:

I believe that TOS has been in use at a couple of sites on Eccles New Road for just over a week now. Looks like they are implementing a progressive conversion from Eccles to Pomona first. I would imagine that depending on how well that goes the Deansgate Castlefield to Trafford Bar will be done as one section.
Eccles has another set of points to cope with and of course there are the 2 emergency crossovers at Weaste and Salford Quays. Once the system has been tried on this section the only untried equipment will be the conversion of the 'conventional' railway style points. They will want to be sure that the controls for these are 100% before converting them as those at Cornbrook will bring the whole south side to a halt if they fail.

I have noticed increased security on the Chorlton line, instead of a wire fence protecting the entrance to the station it is now a solid gate. My feeling when I saw that was they are not expecting to open it any time soon.

I think it will be May at the earliest. I can just see lots of problems with TOS and delays because of it. Lets face it when does anything go right for Metrolink these days?

I have noticed increased security on the Chorlton line, instead of a wire fence protecting the entrance to the station it is now a solid gate. My feeling when I saw that was they are not expecting to open it any time soon.

I think it will be May at the earliest. I can just see lots of problems with TOS and delays because of it. Lets face it when does anything go right for Metrolink these days?

Not really a solid gate, more a hoarding possibly to decrease the chances of anybody accessing the line whilst testing?

I saw that today too, my gut reaction was also "not opening anytime soon" although I do hope it's just to deter people better from trespassing onto the station - maybe they've had problems with drunken chorltoners?? :-)

When trams do eventually go straight through here, am i right in thinking that this will be left as raw as it currently is? Or will there be additional platforms, advertising boards, entrances etc. ie an extension of how it currently stands. Don't really know where I got that impression from.

I imagine the Outbound platform will have at least some additional seating (from the current 2 perch seats), plus some TVMs. At the moment the escalator rises from the platform to the mezzanine level. I wonder if that will change, given the demand on arrivals (from existing routes) at Piccadilly Undercroft?

Taxis will lose a fortune to the trams on CoMS match days.

I saw that today too, my gut reaction was also "not opening anytime soon" although I do hope it's just to deter people better from trespassing onto the station - maybe they've had problems with drunken chorltoners?? :-)

I think it probably reflects the fact that as work has finished on the station (bar a bit of snagging) there will no longer be a fairly constant presence on the station and nobody to watch over it.
It will be a cheaper option than regularly checking that the rather flimsy steel fence has not been breached.

Luv this. Only because its quite a unique section and I find the arches under the station fascinating.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000687.jpg
When trams do eventually go straight through here, am i right in thinking that this will be left as raw as it currently is? Or will there be additional platforms, advertising boards, entrances etc. ie an extension of how it currently stands. Don't really know where I got that impression from.

I agree, Seasoned. It's not clear from the plans what the surroundings will be like under this wide arch, but I don't think there will be any more platforms, and the pedestrian access as indicated is nowhere near here. It is through one of the other arches which runs from the junction of Boad Street/Sheffield Street, to a door on to the existing 'arrival' (i.e. Droylsden) platform.

I suppose they could also extend the public walkways from where that shot was taken, otherwise there will have to be something to prevent access. Anyway, on hearing that the back passage had been opened up, I couldn't resist a mosey around that way today, setting out from Great Ancoats Street :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9930.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9946.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9937.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9941.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9949.jpg

I wonder also what the surfaces will be like in general in this area. Grass, like at Harbour City would be nice - perhaps not though, as people might tramp on it or do other things around here!! I guess the siding area may also be private and fenced off in any event. But there is to be a pedestrian walk way beside the track all along here, as far as the Great Ancoats Street portal.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9933.jpg

I can't really tell from your picture JdR - But does the siding look big enough to turn around a double tram?

I can't really tell from your picture JdR - But does the siding look big enough to turn around a double tram?

it will be, its the perspective that makes it look smaller than it is.

What originally came out of the Piccadilly undercroft where the Ashton line will emerge? It looks like it was originally built for something, an access road?

Think it was a small business like all the other arches down there.

Remember the arch was there long before Metrolink.

But I mean the fact that it's got that cream and red steel lintle thing above it makes it look like something always came out of there..!

Look at the classic simplicity of those openings! How well they fit with their surroundings, how could they possibly be improved by garish yellow decoration?

Well, they're not too sparkling nowadays, Chorlton, transport node or no transport node, but take your point now you explain it!

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9954.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9956.jpg

I guess there's not a lot of purpose in entering through there at present, as the pedestrian passage only leads to the arrival platform. However, I think it will need at least a sign when it becomes the main departure point for Man City, Droylsden and Ashton, and the standard back-lit diamond dots are perhaps not too garish?

When were those pictures taken Johnny in your most recent post?

Must be very recent because they show the refurbishing railings and bridge above Store Street, as well as the repainted inbound London Road cycle lane, all of which have been done since January.

As for the 'back' of Piccadilly Undercroft, this was where the vehicles that used to enter the 'cab road' of Piccadilly Station (Mainline) used to enter/exit, when deliveries and vehicles were allowed onto the platform levels, via a ramp. IIRC, this was removed prior to remodelling work for construction of the Undercroft and for the NoL Eurostar (North of London) platforms servicing area, which previously worked parcels/mail traffic (after Mayfield shut).

But I mean the fact that it's got that cream and red steel lintle thing above it makes it look like something always came out of there..!

Goods lines used to run above the opening where the cabins are now and then down to street level where where there were warehouses and yards bounded by Travis St, Sheffield St and Ducie St. The undercroft was originally a goods transhipment and storage area so it is conceivable that tracks ran into it through the opening.

But I mean the fact that it's got that cream and red steel lintle thing above it makes it look like something always came out of there..!

I think it was the tradesmans entrance to the station, where supplies were delivered, segregated from the paying passengers. Road only, AFAIK.

When were those pictures taken Johnny in your most recent post?


At a guess

2011:02:06 13:56:05

HTH

Well, they're not too sparkling nowadays, Chorlton, transport node or no transport node, but take your point now you explain it!


Nothing that a steam cleaning wouldn't sort out. I can't see any way of decorating it that wouldn't detract-we don't see decoration on any other bridges or tunnels do we, and it's not as if the majority of people passing through wouldn't be doing so on a tram, neither would it be anything other than a very minor pedestrian entrance.

When were those pictures taken Johnny in your most recent post?

Must be very recent because they show the refurbishing railings and bridge above Store Street, as well as the repainted inbound London Road cycle lane, all of which have been done since January.

It was the Virgin Livery on the bridge that made me ask :)

To return to a previous question...

Outside the Jolly Carter, at the end of Merrill Street, and just before Holt Town Station, there is a road junction which the trams will cross, but no signs of any traffic lights being installed.

Does any one have a schematic of the final junction configuration?

There is none in this thread so far.

It was the Virgin Livery on the bridge that made me ask :)

Virgin West Coast were diverting via Manchester (using Voyagers) as the WCML was shut due to engineering work. CrossCountry Voyagers also run a few services via Chat Moss to keep diversionary route retention.

Thanks for those pictures Johnny. I didnt end up venturing across town from work this afternoon so you have saved me a trip. Now can you see what I mean about the trams almost being there! Fantastic

It was the Virgin Livery on the bridge that made me ask :)

It was to-day about 2pm. Yes, mostly, I was surprised to see the Virgin livery on the through platforms - I assume it must have been a diversionary working.

Some of you maybe interested in this, even though it isn't about Metrolink.

Ministers 'must intervene on trams' 3 February, 2011
The Scottish Government should intervene in Edinburgh’s tram works because the project risks collapse, according to Audit Scotland.

The SNP administration should use the expertise of Transport Scotland to try to help prevent any more delays to the city centre work.
Audit Scotland also said the body set up by Edinburgh City to oversee the project, Transport Initiatives Edinburgh, no longer has the skills and experience to ensure the work is successfully completed, especially after several staff quit recently.
Its report expressed worry about the final cost of the trams because the work now cannot be finished within the original budget and raised questions about whether the promised benefits of the scheme would actually materialise.
Work is currently on hold, however mediation talks between the two parties are due to take place soon.
The project’s chairman David Mackay announced in November he was taking early retirement and stood down immediately.
Despite those problems, it is still hoped the project will be completed in 2013, however Audit Scotland said it was now clear it cannot be done within the £545 million budget.
While utilities diversion works are 97% complete, and 75% of tram vehicles have been built, only 28% of infrastructure work has been carried out against a target of 99% for December 2010. Meanwhile, 74% of the funding has already been spent.
John Baillie, chairman of the Accounts Commission, one of the organisations the report was prepared for, said public confidence in the tram works was “extremely low”, and advised the city council and Tie to urgently explain how the project is progressing.

But I mean the fact that it's got that cream and red steel lintle thing above it makes it look like something always came out of there..!

Acess to and from the goods station in the undercroft (connected with the top of the station viaduct by a hydraulic railway waggon hoist). There were also tracks across Sheffield Street leading to some industrial premises. These were still there in the 1950s.

Trainguard

Perhaps the Evening News could do with comparing the Metrolink to other such engineering projects througout Europe where similar laws exist. Maybe the Metrolink problems won't seem to bad then :)

To return to a previous question...

Outside the Jolly Carter, at the end of Merrill Street, and just before Holt Town Station, there is a road junction which the trams will cross, but no signs of any traffic lights being installed.

Does any one have a schematic of the final junction configuration?

There is none in this thread so far.

I don't have a plan of this, but Beswick Street has now been closed and diverted to what was Frost Street on the West side of the Mitchell Arms (not the JC!). This now gives a crossroads direct to Every Street, at 90 degrees to the tramway. However, both these roads still have poor sighting, so I think there are bound to be traffic lights.

Thank you

It was the Virgin Mary on the bridge that made me ask :)
Now ain't that a coincidence, I think I saw the image of Jesus on my toasted bagel this morning :devil: :)

Some of you maybe interested in this, even though it isn't about Metrolink.

And Edinburgh Tram's problems aren't Metrolink's problems. TOS/LOS aside, the Manchester Metrolink is all well tested stuff, and those who design and build the extra bits have plenty of experience of previous similar work in Manchester from which to draw. The current MML extensions don't require an all-new system with all-new trams.

Secondly, the good citizens of Manchester know what to expect during and after construction, which can only help during negotiations.

I suggest that the Edinburgh Tram's designers have underestimated the cost and programme risks involved in service diversions and road closures, which in turn has eaten budget and delayed the project monstrously. Measure twice, cut once. Incidentally, ET is only 11.5 miles long (only 1.4 miles of in-street running, about as long as 2CC), and MML phase 3 alone is 16 miles of Oldham- Rochdale and 20 miles of other extensions.

I hear on the grapevine that they are still designing bits of ET. Some of the MML designs have been around so long the orginal paper drawings are appreciating in value!

A lot of Edinburghs problems were beyond its control, archeological finds, graveyards, etc.. Some were not strictly their fault but with proper surveying should have been known such as twice the amount of utilities requiring moving as first estimated and weaker ground recquiring big concrete slabs to be poured to support the track from sinking. The vehicles themselves are all finished sitting in Spain waiting to be delivered. Your right on bits of Edinburgh still being designed and thats mostly down to frequent policy changes which shouldnt happen, you decide a route and stick to it, you dont alter the route, add a new interchange or change the viaducts/underpasses of a Motorway roundabout around the depot while your already constructing.

Hi

I just found out that u can get Metrolink model a M5000 at shop called westendonlineshop it look really good and I would get one but for £175 is too much for model.

http://www.westendonlineshop.co.uk/3001---ho-gauge---m5000-manchester-metrolink-tram-849-p.asp

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3776/3001hogaugem5000manches.jpg
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/3776/3001hogaugem5000manches.jpg

They should make basic wooden models and sell them to tourists, like the ones in NY. If only the metrolink was as marketable as the NY Subway.

Who would want a model of those ugly NY steel monstrosities?

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2003/07/04/nyregion/04reef.xlarge.jpg

Christ, that is one way to get rid off them.

Those yanks truely are a throw away society aren't they!

Wonder how far out to see that was?

At the risk of labouring the point, I had a rummage into the history of the London Road gateway, only to find that most of the points of view expressed on here, had already been visited in the past . . .

For example, someone in the 1980's had Mark O's idea that the portal might become a good place for idents and branding, etc. (from David Holt's excellent book, 'UK Light Rail Systems #1, ISBN 1 872524 36 2) :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/IMG_0001-27.jpg

However, the above render appears to envisage a more homogeneous background than what later emerged, and the portals as finally built were actually well designed and proportioned, as Chorlton has observed. The quote (from the Metrolink Commemorative Volume ISBN 086317 155 9) also explains a little more about the history of the undercroft and its headshunt (though not about Oldham/Rochdale!!) :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/IMG_0002-23.jpg

They did actually look very good when spanking new, so yes, it's time for a steam clean! ibid:-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/IMG_0003-12.jpg

But having agreed it's perhaps not the place for lashings of bright yellow, could we still please have one standard-sized back-lit Metrolink flag for the platform walkway arch, where there used to be a red BR logo, as in this next shot? Admittedly, it's a very minor entrance, but as well as pointing the way for football crowds, a Metrolink sign would be a lone candle in the gloom, for stag parties and others staggering down from Canal Street at that time of night, and trying to get back to East Manchester . . . !!!

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/IMG_0004-9.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_4307-1.jpg

Yes I think a illuminated logo sign would inform passengers without standing out too much.

There is one there isn't there? Somewhere along that wall.

Well this a bit cheaper than £175, albeit the wrong city.
http://www.thetram.net/features/build_your_own.asp

Must be very recent because they show the refurbishing railings and bridge above Store Street, as well as the repainted inbound London Road cycle lane, all of which have been done since January.

As for the 'back' of Piccadilly Undercroft, this was where the vehicles that used to enter the 'cab road' of Piccadilly Station (Mainline) used to enter/exit, when deliveries and vehicles were allowed onto the platform levels, via a ramp. IIRC, this was removed prior to remodelling work for construction of the Undercroft and for the NoL Eurostar (North of London) platforms servicing area, which previously worked parcels/mail traffic (after Mayfield shut).

There was never a ramp up from the undercroft as far as I know. Vehicle access to the area between Plats 10 & 11 was up the approach road and round the back of Tower block, somewhere about where Sainsbury's is now.

OK, a small sign by the pedestrian entrance:cheers:

There is a small sign above the pedestrian access isn't there?

Goods lines used to run above the opening where the cabins are now and then down to street level where where there were warehouses and yards bounded by Travis St, Sheffield St and Ducie St. The undercroft was originally a goods transhipment and storage area so it is conceivable that tracks ran into it through the opening.

There were tracks in the undercroft, but as far as I can tell from old maps there were never any tracks coming out of the Sheffield St. opening, so this was probably an entrance for road vehicles only.
http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9937.jpg

To the right of the opening used to be a BR depot (Telecomms Dept.) built into the arch,accessed through a green door in the bricked up arch.

Next to that, towards what was then Rail House, inside the fenced off area was another depot (Civil Engrs I think), and a staircase up to the car park behind Piccadilly Station (still there I think but blocked off a few years ago).

Back in the 1980s the roadway where the trams are now would be used by BR vans. I went for a walk round one day - to the left of the opening there are a series of arches, and in one of them (at least, it is getting on for 30 years ago and I'm relying on memory) there were rails stretching into the darkness. These arches had been used by BR for storage (or dumping of surplus equipment if you prefer). I wonder what is left down there now?

As far as I can find out, these low level tracks were accessed through wagon hoists from the sidings above. Not that long ago there were visible remains of what I suspect were these lifts in what is now the low level car park between the opening in the JDR's photo above and Rail House.

Acess to and from the goods station in the undercroft (connected with the top of the station viaduct by a hydraulic railway waggon hoist). There were also tracks across Sheffield Street leading to some industrial premises. These were still there in the 1950s.

Trainguard

The Alan Godfrey map of 1922 shows tracks coming out from the arches towards the Travis St. end and crossing into the railway Goods yard (LNWR). Are these what you are referring to?

This links to a picture of the Goods yard entrance from the corner Of Travis St. and Sheffield St.:
http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=8365

I used to think there had been tracks out of the arches towards the Rail House end but have never found any evidence to support that.

The Alan Godfrey map of 1922 shows tracks coming out from the arches towards the Travis St. end and crossing into the railway Goods yard (LNWR). Are these what you are referring to?

This links to a picture of the Goods yard entrance from the corner Of Travis St. and Sheffield St.:
http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=8365

I used to think there had been tracks out of the arches towards the Rail House end but have never found any evidence to support that.

I scanned these two layouts from the Foxline book "Manchester to Crewe Part 1" and tried stitching them together but the software couldn't do it correctly. It does show the tracks into the undercroft.

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad200/Vernon151/PiccStn3.jpg
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad200/Vernon151/PiccStn1.jpg