Place North West.

Metrolink events to brief public on airport link

9 May 2011, 09:35


Transport for Greater Manchester is holding half-a-dozen public events to outline plans for the forthcoming Metrolink line to Manchester Airport.

Preparatory construction work has started on the new line which is due to begin services at the end of 2015. Leaving the South Manchester line just after the St Werburgh's Road stop in Chorlton, the Manchester Airport line will run on nine miles of new track through Northern Moor, Baguley and Wythenshawe to Manchester Airport.

Philip Purdy, Transport for Greater Manchester's Metrolink director, said: "The Manchester Airport extension will improve people's access to one of the country's busiest airports, and we are committed to keeping people informed throughout all stages of the line's construction.

"Our information events continue to be a useful way for people to meet with the Metrolink team, view plans and find out more about what is happening with the new line. So, I'd encourage people to come along and take advantage of these events and ask any questions they may have."

The events will be held on:

Tuesday 24 May: From 4pm to 7pm at Wythenshawe Forum, Forum Square M22 5RF

Thursday 26 May: From 4pm to 7pm at Benchill Community Centre, Benchill Road, Wythenshawe M22 8EJ

Tuesday 31 May: From 4pm to 7pm at Royal Oak Community Centre, Brookcott Road, Wythenshawe M23 1DY

Wednesday 1 June: From 4pm to 7pm at the Manchester Health Academy Community Building, Moor Road, Wythenshawe M23 9BP

Wednesday 8 June: From 4pm to 7pm at Chorlton High School, Nell Lane, Chorlton Manchester M21 7SL

Thursday 9 June: From 4pm to 7pm at St Elizabeth's Church Hall, Holliney Road (corner with Lomond Road), Peel Hall M22 5JF

Thanks all. I was coming over all depressed about Droylsden not having its 5 minutes of glory, but the presence of a trambahn on your plans Freel effectively solves the 'problem' as I had identified it. (I don't think I've seen those plans before? - they have been very reluctant to release them, or perhaps they are still under review.) I think the location of the trambahn on the inbound (Southern) side also probably dictates the need for a facing crossover, to avoid conflict with road traffic. - I too like the other suggestion but surely they wouldn't want to blockade Market Street for a third time . . .

Anyway, to cheer us all up I took a few pix of the newly-arrived OHLE poles between Hollinswood and South Chaddeh.

Above the M60 :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1807.jpg

Drury Lane Bridge :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1811.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1812.jpg

South Chadderton tramstop :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1815.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1819.jpg

Looking back towards Manchester :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1824.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1828.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1827.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1843.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1841.jpg

And towards Oldham :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1835.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1836.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1834.jpg

The approach to South Chaddeh tramstop via Canal Street (not that one!) :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1846.jpg

. . . Would they? :banana:

Rail crane lowering track segments into place at Old Trafford Depot. Its been tidied up a lot since I last passed though now theyve stuck a tall wooden fence around most of the perimeter.

Thanks all. I was coming over all depressed about Droylsden not having its 5 minutes of glory, but the presence of a trambahn on your plans Freel effectively solves the 'problem' as I had identified it. (I don't think I've seen those plans before? - they have been very reluctant to release them, or perhaps they are still under review.) I think the location of the trambahn on the inbound (Southern) side also probably dictates the need for a facing crossover, to avoid conflict with road traffic. - I too like the other suggestion but surely they wouldn't want to blockade Market Street for a third time . . .

Anyway, to cheer us all up I took a few pix of the newly-arrived OHLE poles between Hollinswood and South Chaddeh.

. . . Would they? :banana:

Good to see the progress on Oldham, I must work out how to get to South Chadderton, I missed it on my walk last month.

The 'Trambahn' in Droylsden has been on the drawings since late 2009 I think. The drawing I saw dates from 2010.

Hi

Good picture everyone who took them thanks, they where start putting pole in at Freehold Station before but I notice they only whay far as Block Lane bridge but less they doing something on Oldham Line. I notice the haven't track down at Werneth so I think that what they will do so. My guess was when Chorlton line will open was Yesterday (May 9) so I failled in that one.

More and more people out of the running every day on the Chorlton line opening date! Unless they open it in 5 days, I'm out too!!


Chorltonred - 28th March

Voldermort - 1st April
ill tonkso - 3rd April
ScouseinManc - 4th April
Wirlie G - 11th April
Chogmook - 16th April
Ashtonian - 17th April
harryj79 - 17th April
Manclad71 - 18th April
Kriis101 - 21st April
Futurelink - 25th April
Mamucium - 26th April
Accura - 29th April
Johnny de Rivative - 29th April
Norb - 30th April

Watch - 1st May
NYManic - 1st May
Gdogg371 - 1st May
alr1970 - 2nd May
thecityofgold - 3rd May
Zim - 3rd May
Local Lad - 6th May
r02 - 9th May
MarkO - 13th May
martin2345 - 15th May
Chorlton Metro - 15th May
Mostly Lurnking - 15th May
CPL R - 16th May
Sir Miles Platting - 16th May
kurt5561 - 16th May
DiscoSteve - 20th May
link road - 22nd May
Apologies - 23rd May
tucbuscuit - 29th May
iheartthenew - 30th May
Free07 - 30th May

Seasonedbest - 6th June
leeroy - 12th June
traffordboy - 13th June
hulmeman - 20th June
Soupcon - 20th June

mackenzi - 20th July

ADJ1984 - 28th September

Bible - 5th October

Joydivision - 30th Sept 2012.

Can anyone confirm if the depot has officially been opened yet or are they waiting on TOS?

From memory it was initially due to open in Dec2010, then March 2011, yet I don't remember seeing anything official about it opening.

Its a phased opening, it became open for storing stock in Dec 2010 and the depot buildings were handed over in March.

Thanks. I was expecting to see fat boy Whitmore in another photo oppurtunity when it had opened.

Clearly not.

According to a poster on another forum, the TMS on the Trafford Depot/South Manchester Line Junction to GMEX is due to be handed over imminently. :nuts::nuts:

Also to never trust an opening date set to a season LOL

More and more people out of the running every day on the Chorlton line opening date! Unless they open it in 5 days, I'm out too!!

My forecast's long passed...

My dear Mother was over from Lpool on Saturday for the day & just after I collected her from Oxford Rd stn, I whizzed up to Morrisons in Chorlton in the car. Was telling her what a white elephant the whole S. Mcr line has turned out to be. Not even a Metro sign in the vacinity, hinting at the iminent opening...

At least there's plenty going on elsewhere, with plenty of great updates from Freel, JdR & Ashtonian, to name a few.

I may just throw a party when they actually get this signalling sorted & trams on tests.

According to a poster on another forum, the TMS on the Trafford Depot/South Manchester Line Junction to GMEX is due to be handed over imminently. :nuts::nuts:

Also to never trust an opening date set to a season LOL

Link to the other forum please! :cheers:

According to a poster on another forum, the TMS on the Trafford Depot/South Manchester Line Junction to GMEX is due to be handed over imminently. :nuts::nuts:

Also to never trust an opening date set to a season LOL

If true surely testing on the Chorlton line is imminent.

Will we see the Cornbrook turn back opening first or the Chorlton line?

Could MC still go into Picc as well as MC shuttle?

According to a poster on another forum, the TMS on the Trafford Depot/South Manchester Line Junction to GMEX is due to be handed over imminently. :nuts::nuts:

Also to never trust an opening date set to a season LOL

If true surely testing on the Chorlton line is imminent.

Will we see the Cornbrook turn back opening first or the Chorlton line?

Could MC still go into Picc as well as MC shuttle?

Timings I suppose. They need to confirm the timetable as to when the trams will depart St Web etc such that they fit between the Alty and Eccles trams at TB and Cornbrook.

I seem to remember when Phase 1 & 2 opened the railway inspectorate insisted on 6 weeks of ghost running. I think freel pointed out this is no longer required but I still imagine they'll run a ghost service at least for a short period of time.

Heres the link

http://www.wnxxforum.com/interactive/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8794&start=400

Tony Miles is a respected railway journalist who works for 'Modern railways' so I'm sure his info can be trusted :)

LNGCats. They already tested the Chorlton Line So dunno what else they would need to do down there, besides putting up station signs and fitting ticket machines.

Timings I suppose. They need to confirm the timetable as to when the trams will depart St Web etc such that they fit between the Alty and Eccles trams at TB and Cornbrook.

I seem to remember when Phase 1 & 2 opened the railway inspectorate insisted on 6 weeks of ghost running. I think freel pointed out this is no longer required but I still imagine they'll run a ghost service at least for a short period of time.

I presume this can also lead to the TOS timings in the city centre and hence the demise of the Mosley St stop.

Is TMS = Tram Management System, which I assume is the same thing as TOS (Tram Operating System)?

Just a bit confused.

So are you saying that Chorlton line is about to be handed over to Metrolink?

There are a bunch of Duel aspect railwayesque signals on the stretch between Deansgate Castlefield and Ponoma TMS or been there for ages?

Yes TMS = TOS.

Yes, those new signals, mostly still under plastic wrappers are TOS signals.

Yes, Joy, they changed it from TOS to TMS, the same thing, but perhaps they thought the acronym was becoming too descriptive!!

But there is now a more imminent feel about things. With the new 6 minute headways, Salford Quays feels awash with trams, and Mosley Street more so!

An article in the June edition of 'To-day's Railways' (out now) also makes these comments under the heading "NEW ROUTES IN JUNE?" :-

"The difficulties with the MediaCity branch have naturally made TfGM cautious about the new lines to Central Park and to Chorlton, which will hopefully open in June after full testing. Oldham Mumps should follow this autumn, with Rochdale and Droylsden due to open in Spring 2012"
It seems they are slightly out on that last bit, and no mention of Velopark, but looking back at the original timeline projections, it seems that things in the South have slipped only a little on testing etc. (It seems they were looking at the beginning of May, but does testing & driver training still now need 6 months?), so fingers crossed for next month :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_1339.jpg

To get to Central Park in June we will require TOS (as I like to continue to call it) to be operational through Victoria at least as far as Queens Rd, potentially Woodlands, Abrahm Moss or even the Crumpsall junction.

My theory,TOS kind of implies some kind of self-driving system. TMS, ie 'Management' is kind of closer to the truth.

Reminds me of the Disk Operating System, happy days.

Yes TMS = TOS.

Yes, those new signals, mostly still under plastic wrappers are TOS signals.

There are a couple on then if that's so, one on the Castlefield viaduct.

Question, once the TOS is live to G-mex can trams 3014 onwards then run on the Eccles/Media from Piccadilly?

So long as they can get out of the depot yes.

I think the differing acronyms a minor issue arising from the fact the contract was tendered for a new 'Tram Operating System' whereas the name of the system Thales sold them is 'Tram Management System' or rather 'Tram Managment and control System' abbreviated TMcS. Not really a change in name just from a service description to product name.

Just travelled inbound on first tram from Alty (which regularly seems to have to wait for Eccles tram to join track just south of Cornbrook since the new timetable).

No change in status of the signalling from what I can tell.

Block signalling clearly stilll in use along the route I have used and TOS signals all switched off (other than on Chorlton line) and many still under plastic covers.

Oh dear. The waits a killer! The Yellow Machine 1027 was out and about last night again, returned through Vic at about 05:10

To sum up on a few of the most recent posts.

The 'railwayesque' signals between Pomona and Cornbrook have been there since the line opened and are part of the block signalling. Any bagged signals in that area will be TMS signals.

For 3014 onwards to run from Piccadilly to St Werburgh's Rd TMS will need to be operational from St Werburghs Rd through Cornbrook and Deansgate to Piccadilly. I don't know whether it would be needed up to Queens Rd or whether all the maintenance on these trams can be done at Old Trafford for a short period. Remember Old Trafford is not intended for the heavier maintenance.

I'm not sure why they would run both MC to Piccadilly and the Cornbrook Shuttle LNG. Also the comment I made about shadow running was meant to indicate that HMRI now don't do the approval, that comes from the projects own safety approval process managed by TfGM. they may still want aperiod of trial running.

As for the final commissioning I guess we will have to wait for notice of a weekend shutdown.

Sorry, I meant that I would imagine at some point, before the Chorlon line starts up in anger, that the MC shuttle will cease to run to Picc and instead will only get as far as Cornbrook (as per maps in trams) due to lack of capacity in the city centre and that is the real service those trams should be serving.

I would have thought, given the problems previously experienced, that TfGM would want to successfully commission the Cornbrook turnback prior to the Chorlton line going live (probably during the testing / driver awareness phase).

Hi

I took some picture at South Chadderton today, you can found them on is link.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work/

Was in town for the first time in ages (apart from at night) today as I decided to leave the car at home and use a borrowed bus ticket to get to Openshaw where I have been working on call.

When I was in town I noticed a lot more trams than usual, I think it must be the Media City affect. Hopefully when the new lines open there will be far more trams than buses in Picciddily.

From 'The Advertiser' today....

Air your views on Metrolink.

Residents concerned about the Metrolink are invited to have their say at a public meeting in Droylsden. Councillors will be joined by Metrolink chiefs at Droylsden Academy on Cryer Street, from 6.30-7.30 on Thursday May 19.

When I was in town I noticed a lot more trams than usual, I think it must be the Media City affect. Hopefully when the new lines open there will be far more trams than buses in Picciddily.

Yes, I was in town on Tuesday and decided to take a ride out to Media City.
I actually had to wait the best part of half an hour for a tram but in all that time the was no time when there wasn't a tram at the stop. At one time there were two on the Piccadilly station side and a third waiting behind to get to the stop. On the other platform were two Alti trams, not coupled and an Eccles tram closely followed by a Bury tram as the two Alti trams left.

Got the impression that they were deliberately loading the system, perhaps checking how it would cope under heavy load. There certainly weren't the passengers to justify the number of trams.

Yes, I was in town on Tuesday and decided to take a ride out to Media City.
I actually had to wait the best part of half an hour for a tram but in all that time the was no time when there wasn't a tram at the stop. At one time there were two on the Piccadilly station side and a third waiting behind to get to the stop. On the other platform were two Alti trams, not coupled and an Eccles tram closely followed by a Bury tram as the two Alti trams left.

Got the impression that they were deliberately loading the system, perhaps checking how it would cope under heavy load. There certainly weren't the passengers to justify the number of trams.

Sounds like driver training going on as well.

Sounds like driver training going on as well.

Erm, well I did see a few out of service trams heavily laden with drivers all clustered in and around the cab.

BTW, it did look as if headways were totally out of the window too.

Well the old way to retime the services was to wait in the siding at Piccadilly, dont think they can do that anymore with the sheer weight of trams though and they seem to be terminating services at Piccadilly Gardens when they need to get the timings correct again, saves 3 or 4 minutes I guess.

Getting from Picc Gardens and back again from Picc takes 12 mins in the timetable so will be saving a lot more than 3 or 4 mins.

I've noticed a few timperley terminators this week "due to operational requirements". Oh how the biddys moan even though another tram can been seen between timp & brooklands!!!

I am not sure if anybody knows or cares, but this year the Chorlton Arts Festival is sponsored by the Metrolink. It is a shame it won't be open in time....

From 'The Advertiser' today....

Air your views on Metrolink.

Residents concerned about the Metrolink are invited to have their say at a public meeting in Droylsden. Councillors will be joined by Metrolink chiefs at Droylsden Academy on Cryer Street, from 6.30-7.30 on Thursday May 19.

Thanks for posting that Loweskid, 200m from my front door so I may have a wander over.

Is there a reason why the tram routes in Manchester aren't numbered?

I've never seen a train / tram / underground system with numbers for the routes thats generally buses

Sheffield uses colours on its digital destination blinds but they look horrid.

They don't need to be numbered, they aren't in London, Paris, Barcelona, Lille, Berlin and other cities I have been to.

Light rail systems follow lines so don't need a number, as longs as you know what line its running on you know where it goes. Where as a bus could have a number of different routes to the same destination hence the need for numbers.

I've never seen a train / tram / underground system with numbers for the routes thats generally buses
New York uses numbers 1-7 for some of its subway lines, letters for the rest. Many European trains, including Eurostar, use number codes for identification. (Trains in the UK have alpha-numeric id codes but these aren't generally made public - you can see them on the arrivals screen in the ticket office on Piccadilly station concourse)

Yes but you don't say i'm getting the abc345 to Euston from Picadally but Rather you say i'm getting the 9.21 and thats what you look for on broad, so they may have numbers but no one for the journey references them and the train side usually just has Euston on.

And that was the point

I was down on Sheffield Street this afternoon and the rails are now definitely connected a shown by a couple of phone camera shots I took.

http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae333/freel07/Metrolink/IMAG0091.jpg

http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae333/freel07/Metrolink/IMAG0090.jpg

I had been given an invitation this morning to a lunchtime presentation at the Permanent Way Institute given by Phillip Purdy. It was an interesting talk but didn't say too much we didn't already know. He wasn't going to be pressed on definite opening dates but did indicate that South Manchester would open in the next month or two.

Also he had a slide with post 3B service patterns. Ashton is seen to be an extension on the current Bury and Altrincham to Piccadilly services as we thought. Eccles will terminate at Piccadilly. South Manchester will run through to the Oldham Rochdale line initially to Central Park, again as most of us thought. Post 2CC this service will use 2CC.The Airport services (10 tph on his slide) will terminate at Victoria, again if I remember right via 2CC. MCUK will be terimnated at Cornbrook as the current MCUK to Piccadilly paths from Cornbrook to the delta will be taken by SML to ORL services until these have 2CC available.

Finally he was quite open about the problems MCUK has caused and accepted that the Trafford Bar and Irk Valley junctions were challenging them.

Something else I forgot that Mr Purdy said, both the Oldham Rochdale (3A) and East Manchester Lines will open in 3 stages. i should have written these dates down but didn't have paper and pencil available, a colleague did I think so I will check these and report my errors.

Oldham Rochdale will open as follows Central Park in the next couple of months hopefully, then to Oldham Mumps (temp) back end of this year followed by Rochdale next Spring.

East Manchester will open to Velopark sometime late August early September hopefully (he didn't say that it would be open for the start of the football season), Droylsden opening mid 2012 as per the website and Ashton he didn't quote a date.

I've never seen a train / tram / underground system with numbers for the routes thats generally buses

Well I can name two:
Helsinki:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2663/5713535029_48ce7dcb4d_b.jpg

Budapest:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2043/5713535317_672e5fb2d1_z.jpg


Anyhow, good news that Purdy says Chorlton line is opening in the next few months :)

Those dates and phases are roughly as expected. The Airport 10tph is interesting because thats what it originally was with the loop and then for a time after before being reduced to 5tph when the public announcement/approval was granted. Either theyve gone back to old frequencies or its a hangover figure.

Did fares or trafford/other extensions come up at all? And was there any mention of vehicles or the their hunting problem?

I've never seen a train / tram / underground system with numbers for the routes thats generally buses

On the continent they are nearly always numbered and usually all the underground lines are numbered. Croydon uses numbers on tramlink, don't know if Nottingham do or not and Sheffield uses colours.

Nearly all train lines in Germany have route numbers, but can't speak for other countries

Those dates and phases are roughly as expected. The Airport 10tph is interesting because thats what it originally was with the loop and then for a time after before being reduced to 5tph when the public announcement/approval was granted. Either theyve gone back to old frequencies or its a hangover figure.

Did fares or trafford/other extensions come up at all? And was there any mention of vehicles or the their hunting problem?

I would say its a hangover figure.

Whats a hunting problem?

They don't need to be numbered, they aren't in London, Paris, Barcelona, Lille, Berlin and other cities I have been to.

Light rail systems follow lines so don't need a number, as longs as you know what line its running on you know where it goes. Where as a bus could have a number of different routes to the same destination hence the need for numbers.

Yes Joy, they are numbered although can't say anything about Lille.:)

I would say its a hangover figure.

Whats a hunting problem?

The proper technical term for the massive lateral swaying.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting_oscillation

What would be the advantage in saying "catch the number 5 tram" over "get the Eccles tram"?

Hi

Thanks for that info Freel07 like u said near everyone throught that Oldham & Rochdale line will go to Chorlton mean I think they will want the line to central Park open at same time as Chorlton line do. East Manchester line a less we know now the tram will be going to Eastland this year witch is good news well saying that is good news for City fans, just think by end of this year we will have three new line to go on :banana:. Also I found is on TFGM website about East Manchester line.

We are building a new Metrolink line from Manchester to Ashton-under-Lyne. Over the last few months we have been undertaking earthworks on sections of line between the Wheelchair Centre, along Lord Sheldon Way towards Ashton and commenced the construction of the new Metrolink stop at Audenshaw.

From 16th May we will start to lay track across the entrance to Gainsborough Road. Work will take approximately 16 weeks to complete. As a result the entrance to the estate will be temporarily realigned towards the car park of the Snipe pub and temporary traffic signals will be in operation for single line traffic. Once the work has been completed, traffic will be diverted back onto the new layout with two way traffic operation.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused. Pedestrian access will be maintained at all times.

Between the Sub-Station East of Moorcroft Street and the Medical Centre

As you may be aware, we are building a new Metrolink line from Manchester Piccadilly to Ashton under Lyne. Over the last few months we have been laying track along sections of Ashton New Road and Manchester Road.

I am writing to inform you that from Tuesday 17th May we will start to lay track on the eastern end of the Droylsden Metrolink stop on Ashton Road from the substation to the Medical Centre. Work will take approximately 14 weeks to complete. Temporary traffic lights will be in operation during this work.

As a result, there will be a temporary parking restriction for 14 weeks on both sides of Ashton Road near our work site. Full pedestrian access will be maintained at all times

Thanks for a great update there Freel.

So; St Werby's to Central Park June / July , then Picc to Velopark Aug / Sept & then St Werby's to Oldham Nov / Dec. That's exciting stuff coming up in the next 6 months.

Not to mention how much more advanced works will be on all the further extensions & the Airport line by the end of this year / beginning of next.

I'm also really looking forward to seeing prep work starting on 2CC & the St Peter's Square relocation. Although that's gonna be a while off isn't it?

Frankly you wouldnt see anything happen on the ground as far as 2CC is concerned till 2014 and most work probably not till 2015. While building most of the route wont be that disruptive moving St Peters im sure will be, building as much as they can in parallel they may still have to call a 2-3 week blockade when they switchover though having depots on both sides means they may be able to maintain services in a severed form.

What would be the advantage in saying "catch the number 5 tram" over "get the Eccles tram"?

Are you assuming all people in Greater Manchester are literate? Mind you, if you number them, you then discriminate from those who aren't numerate!

I've never seen a train / tram / underground system with numbers for the routes thats generally buses

Amsterdam does, and has them numbered so to be consistent with the bus network.

I'm starting to like my guess of July 20th! Well I'm off that week, so looks more & more likely I will visit!

Eccles will terminate at Piccadilly.

This is disappointing. I was rather hoping Eccles services would continue on to Velopark/Droylsden/Ashton. Ah well.

I believe the idea still remains to extend the Mediacity shuttle to Victoria once 2cc is open, that would at least give the Quays area choice of two direct destinations.

I would say its a hangover figure.

Whats a hunting problem?

Fares weren't mentioned and no questions were asked about them. Not surprising as it was a civil engineering based presentation really.

As for the ride problems, no it wasn't mentioned and in retrospect I should have asked. I reckon we might have found out what if anything is being done as he didn't seem to duck problem areas within the project. Hunting is the problem of a side to side motion which tends to get worse the longer it goes. As we all know the M5000s in particular suffer this at times quite violently.

The Airport Line frequency issue is interesting as almost all his slides were dated March 2011 and not only did the map show 10 tph on the Airport but he kept referring to 35 tph between Cornbrook and St Peter's Square. That he said was made up of 10 Altrincham, 10 South Manchester, 5 Eccles and 10 Airport. He was questioned about it as well because he quoted 40tph through Cornbrook junction and a colleague asked about the difference between the 40 tph approaching Cornbrook and 35 tph beyond. His answer was the 5 MediaCityUK turnbacks and he did say that the present Piccadilly Shuttle is temporary.

On the subject of disruptiveness, we got a letter through our door saying they are planning on closing the jct of Nell Lane and Mauldeth Road at the Southern Pub for 3 months to complete utilities diversions. Didnt say much else, although that section has been very busy of late, some really big sewer excavations towards Hardy Farm etc.

They said the start date was very soon. They have also sprayed up the new kerb lines around the junctions, I would assume they will be tweaking the road layout at the same time, or is that wishful thinking?!

Fares weren't mentioned and no questions were asked about them. Not surprising as it was a civil engineering based presentation really.

As for the ride problems, no it wasn't mentioned and in retrospect I should have asked. I reckon we might have found out what if anything is being done as he didn't seem to duck problem areas within the project. Hunting is the problem of a side to side motion which tends to get worse the longer it goes. As we all know the M5000s in particular suffer this at times quite violently.

The Airport Line frequency issue is interesting as almost all his slides were dated March 2011 and not only did the map show 10 tph on the Airport but he kept referring to 35 tph between Cornbrook and St Peter's Square. That he said was made up of 10 Altrincham, 10 South Manchester, 5 Eccles and 10 Airport. He was questioned about it as well because he quoted 40tph through Cornbrook junction and a colleague asked about the difference between the 40 tph approaching Cornbrook and 35 tph beyond. His answer was the 5 MediaCityUK turnbacks and he did say that the present Piccadilly Shuttle is temporary.

Are they ordering more trams then? I didn't think they'd have enough to run 10tph from Victoria to the Airport (If that is the route)

Frankly you wouldnt see anything happen on the ground as far as 2CC is concerned till 2014 and most work probably not till 2015. While building most of the route wont be that disruptive moving St Peters im sure will be, building as much as they can in parallel they may still have to call a 2-3 week blockade when they switchover though having depots on both sides means they may be able to maintain services in a severed form.

See now I'm confused. If 2cc is needed for the airport line to open, how can they not start it until 2015 if the airport line is due to open in 2016...?

See now I'm confused. If 2cc is needed for the airport line to open, how can they not start it until 2015 if the airport line is due to open in 2016...?

I imagine the Airport line will open in a couple of stages. They could turn the trams around at Cornbrook until 2CC was complete.

Fares weren't mentioned and no questions were asked about them. Not surprising as it was a civil engineering based presentation really.

As for the ride problems, no it wasn't mentioned and in retrospect I should have asked. I reckon we might have found out what if anything is being done as he didn't seem to duck problem areas within the project. Hunting is the problem of a side to side motion which tends to get worse the longer it goes. As we all know the M5000s in particular suffer this at times quite violently.

The Airport Line frequency issue is interesting as almost all his slides were dated March 2011 and not only did the map show 10 tph on the Airport but he kept referring to 35 tph between Cornbrook and St Peter's Square. That he said was made up of 10 Altrincham, 10 South Manchester, 5 Eccles and 10 Airport. He was questioned about it as well because he quoted 40tph through Cornbrook junction and a colleague asked about the difference between the 40 tph approaching Cornbrook and 35 tph beyond. His answer was the 5 MediaCityUK turnbacks and he did say that the present Piccadilly Shuttle is temporary.

I was wondering of they were going to put 5tph to Wythenshawe and another 5tph to the Airport bit like the Shaw/Rochdale soluation. There is the ability to turn back at Wythenshawe from the plans so it makes sense to have a regular turn back there. Isn't the Airport station a single platform tho? Could that cope with 10tph reversing there?

What would be the advantage in saying "catch the number 5 tram" over "get the Eccles tram"?

At the moment - none. Give it twenty years when there may be numerous differing trams going different ways to Eccles and it may be a different story.

Best regards,
Slip

Are they ordering more trams then? I didn't think they'd have enough to run 10tph from Victoria to the Airport (If that is the route)

It looks as though Mr Purdy was fed duff info by his team. The website definitely shows 12 minute interval for the Airport, perhaps he needs to ask on here first, LoL!

I do recall seeing somewhere that pre 2CC the Airport services would need to terminate at Cornbrook.

I personally think that if it was possible it would be better for the MCUK service to turn at Piccadilly (BBC types travelling up from the smoke etc) and Eccles services to move to Victoria if it could cope with 10 TPH terminating.

Tram routes are numbered in Budapest, Munich, London, Amsterdam and Szeged...(just ones I've been on)

I had been given an invitation this morning to a lunchtime presentation at the Permanent Way Institute given by Phillip Purdy. It was an interesting talk but didn't say too much we didn't already know. He wasn't going to be pressed on definite opening dates but did indicate that South Manchester would open in the next month or two.

Also he had a slide with post 3B service patterns. Ashton is seen to be an extension on the current Bury and Altrincham to Piccadilly services as we thought. Eccles will terminate at Piccadilly. South Manchester will run through to the Oldham Rochdale line initially to Central Park, again as most of us thought. Post 2CC this service will use 2CC.The Airport services (10 tph on his slide) will terminate at Victoria, again if I remember right via 2CC. MCUK will be terimnated at Cornbrook as the current MCUK to Piccadilly paths from Cornbrook to the delta will be taken by SML to ORL services until these have 2CC available.

Some coleagues at work will soon be catching the Met from Central Park to get to Piccadilly Station and beyond, they will have to change tram.

Should they change at Victoria to a Bury-Picc service (5tph) or continue to StPeters Sq where there are a choice of services (10tph).

Without a sophisticated real-time information service how can they choose?

Real time information will come with the new management system (TOS/TMS) required for the new trams and lines to operate.

Hi Steve and welcome - wow, people wanting to use Central park already!:banana:

- Change at Victoria to remain at the same platform without walking.

- Or at Market Street and walk across to Picc Gdns if the more frequent service is needed.

- Don't go to St P's Square - too far out of the way. (Edit - although I can't work out whether this will still be good advice after 2CC opens, but that's 5 years away yet!) In any event, at the moment it's probably quicker to get off at Market Street and walk the half mile straight ahead to Piccadilly station!


# Futurelink, you are not the only one on here wanting a connection between Ashton & Eccles etc, and I would quite like it myself! However, I think the Ashton-Bury-Alti through workings are probably more crucial, in order to keep the Picc-Vic-SPQ connections. However, so far that has only been mentioned in relation to the peak hours, and perhaps other permutations might become viable off-peak?

# I also like the idea of Eccles or MC alternating between Picc and Vic - they could also perhaps do that just now with all the MC's clogging things up and having to turn at Aytoun Street. (Ecc-Vic was also very popular during the 2009 city centre blockades - much disappointment was expressed when it reverted to Picc). Perhaps the Airport line could do this also, by which time the extended Victoria interchange should have opened?

As for the ride problems, no it wasn't mentioned and in retrospect I should have asked. I reckon we might have found out what if anything is being done as he didn't seem to duck problem areas within the project. Hunting is the problem of a side to side motion which tends to get worse the longer it goes. As we all know the M5000s in particular suffer this at times quite violently.

As does the DLR stock in London, also made by Bombardier and of a similar high floor design as their platforms are also at "BR Station height". I've not seen an M5000 hunting yet (since I rarely use the trams here) but I can imagine it's unsettling... it was so on the DLR but also fun at the same time when it happens at 50mph! :)

Yeah its a pity, their actually much better than the T68 at low speed giving a very smooth ride and quieter on corners, probably why theyve used them so much on Eccles routes. Its when on the long straight high speed stretches the problem occurs. Ive observed though a decent driver can mitigate it partly, if they accelerate and brake gently rather than sharply the ossilations dont start as the wheels dont lose their grip (like tire spin on a car).

I know they were doing two things to try and stop it, altering the wheel profiles and trialling onboard sandite dispensers programmed to spray certain quantities at certain GPS co-ordinates. I have no idea how either of the trials went.

Hi Steve and welcome - wow, people wanting to use Central park already!

We've only been waiting for SIX years!
'Pringle Henge' station was there before we arrived in 2005.

There were a couple of trams there on test a few weeks ago, since then nothing.

As does the DLR stock in London, also made by Bombardier and of a similar high floor design as their platforms are also at "BR Station height". I've not seen an M5000 hunting yet (since I rarely use the trams here) but I can imagine it's unsettling... it was so on the DLR but also fun at the same time when it happens at 50mph! :)

The T68s do the same thing but the dampers do a better job of controlling it.

Yeah its a pity, their actually much better than the T68 at low speed giving a very smooth ride and quieter on corners, probably why theyve used them so much on Eccles routes. Its when on the long straight high speed stretches the problem occurs. Ive observed though a decent driver can mitigate it partly, if they accelerate and brake gently rather than sharply the ossilations dont start as the wheels dont lose their grip (like tire spin on a car).

I know they were doing two things to try and stop it, altering the wheel profiles and trialling onboard sandite dispensers programmed to spray certain quantities at certain GPS co-ordinates. I have no idea how either of the trials went.

The trials of a new wheel profile weren't a success from what I hear. It resulted in a need for much more frequent tyre turning on the wheel lathe and therefore a shorter tyre life. I think the other trial was actually flange lubrication not Sandite and I don't know what happened to that.

The problem is caused by the wheelset oscillating (or hunting from side to side) and should be controlled by a good match between wheel profile and rail head profile. Trams tend to push the steering tendency of the conicity of the wheel tread to the limit by the sharp curves encountered and need a more flexible suspension set up to allow them to steer into curves effectively. This leads to less control and lateral stability than a train has. The M5000s seem to have softer damper settings which allow the body to move more than the stiffer T68. Both types of tram suffer the same problem but the T68 is better controlled. It's all a matter of experiment. The wheels should never 'lose their grip' the traction systems incorporate wheel slip protection.

We've only been waiting for SIX years!
'Pringle Henge' station was there before we arrived in 2005.

There were a couple of trams there on test a few weeks ago, since then nothing.

Several of us just missed getting a pic Steve when those trams were up there a few weeks ago! If you see any more lurking around Pringle Henge (loving that name, what is it?), any chance of giving us a bell? I have sent you a private message. :cheers: Cheers matey.

# High-Fi - I will see you at the Droylsden meeting next Thurs 17th if you are there, with any Shamesiders or others to ask questions? Also the one at Wythenshawe Forum on 24.5.11 - anyone want to meet up?

Until this morning, there was a big poster up in Droylsden opposite Tesco, saying the Metrolink road works will be over by October, but it has changed now to one for your lad's college. Speaking of which, here's a pic of it, together with the platforms at Edge Lane, which are gradually coming into being, also the Stop Equipment Room in prefabricated brick with its new roof :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1897.jpg

Here's another later on, the Kakoli restaurant looking slightly Hopper-esque in the impending night. The cluster of bright street lights on the horizon, centre left, is the main road leading up the hill to Manchester Street roundabout, Oldham :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1859.jpg

# martin, with 5 years to plan etc., there seems to be no reason why the second city crossing should not open at the same time as the Airport line, worry not! Actually, the new site of the cenotaph has now been cordoned off, and the statue of the 'poor lady' and other furniture in that area has gone already . . .

# route numbers - it seems to depend on the whim of the operator. Mcr, Nottingham, DLR, Underground lines don't have them, but some smaller operations do - Croydon has numbers for its 3 or 4 routes, and Midland Metro even has a number 1 for its single line. (Years ago, Blackpool was an oddity - number 1 for Fleetwood - North Stn., but all the other lines had no number - a throwback to private 'Company' days 100 years ago.)

:banana:

The wheels should never 'lose their grip' the traction systems incorporate wheel slip protection.

Its what happens, leaf mulch is broken down and forms a slippery surface on the rail, the trams wheels start sliding laterally rather than movement soley through turning and you get wheel flats.

# martin, with 5 years to plan etc., there seems to be no reason why the second city crossing should not open at the same time as the Airport line, worry not! Actually, the new site of the cenotaph has now been cordoned off, and the statue of the 'poor lady' and other furniture in that area has gone already . . .

:banana:

The only issue delaying 2CC is obtaining the statutory powers to build it. It's a bit unusual as there are no powers for it although the money is in place. usually it's the other way round. The powers could take at least 12 months depending on the results of public consultation and whether a Public Inquiry is needed. They are obviously working hard to avoid the Inquiry scenario.

By the way on route numbers, why not do like Oldham did and use letters just to be different!:lol:

Hello People,
I have been lurking on this thread for some time now. Found it V. interesting and useful

I don't know if you've noticed but Exchange Square has been named as the only stop on the 2CC:
http://www.metrolink.co.uk/pdf/future_metrolink/second-city-crossing-landscape.pdf

I live in Lancaster so there are limited oppertunities for contributions but I will try to take some when I'm in Manc (that's if my camera decides to start working).

Well done and keep up the good work!
Yours, Lyle

Welcome aboard Lyle, all contributions are very much appreciated.

Thanks for the picture update JDR, cracking shot of the Edge Lane platform / new Academy. Is that a wild fire in the background? I'd have thought the rain would have put all those out. Hopefully I'll make it to the meeting, red carnation is it :), I'll be the one with the daft long blonde hair.

Its what happens, leaf mulch is broken down and forms a slippery surface on the rail, the trams wheels start sliding laterally rather than movement soley through turning and you get wheel flats.

Sorry, I missed that scenario, I was really referring to the acceleration control. Wheel slide is certainly a big problem with the T68s in Autumn. I believe the M5000s are much better in that respect.

Well after reading what Freel said about the serrvice patterns I decided to have a gander at the new timetables that started recently.
Bascically if the Altrincham and Bury Lines are to extend to Ashton then the times will need to change yet again and am still wondering how they will do this as the maths don't work.

For example trams from Altrincham to Piccadilly stop at Piccadilly Gardens at

01 13 25 37 49 mins past each hour

Trams from Bury to Piccadilly station stop at Piccadilly Gardens at

04 16 28 40 52 mins past each hour

Trams from Eccles to Piccadilly Station stop at Piccadilly Gardens at

11 23 35 47 and 59 mins past each hour

Trams from Mediacity to Piccadilly Station stop at Piccadilly gardens at

05 17 29 49 53 mins past each hour

So if they are going to extend Altrincham and Bury to Ashton as they said then another timetable is required as I say, I'll look forward to seeing it as I cant see that they would have a service pattern of 3/9 minutes!
At the present time the only service that can go through is from Eccles/mediacity as they are exactly every 6 minutes apart,and we know that mediacity is only a temporary measure so basically we are back to where we were before the changes.

We shall need to wait and see. Seeing as Mr Purdie got his info perhaps wrong saying trams every 6 minutes to Airport when they haven't ordered enough trams puts doubt over this too?

Good to see the progress on Oldham, I must work out how to get to South Chadderton, I missed it on my walk last month.

The 'Trambahn' in Droylsden has been on the drawings since late 2009 I think. The drawing I saw dates from 2010.

Morning Freel, South Chaddeh is in the middle of a park, an unusual and ergo interesting location for a tramstop, only accessible on foot from either direction. It is best accessed from Coalshaw Green Road opposite Lancaster Street - the approach via Drury Lane and Canal Street is convoluted and not at all obvious from the Eastern end.

I am wondering if anyone has plans of the Oldham line? In the whole of phase 3 there is now only one alignment I am still not quite sure about, and that is between Werneth and Westwood. The 'overview' diagram shows it as running parallel to Featherstall Road South but slightly removed to the East, rather than immediately alongside :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_6226.jpg

The blurb on 'Future Metrolink' also talks about the line passing through the Westwood Business Park, which in fact has quite a wide avenue in the middle, here looking South :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9412-1.jpg

So I am wondering if this will involve any demolition, or will the garage and pub be able to remain, with the line passing behind them? (as at the Snipe Audenshaw) :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_6521.jpg

From the business park facing North, towards Westwood tramstop it will have to pass through this wall :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9411-1.jpg

Looking back over the wall from West Street :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9410-1.jpg

And looking back to West Street from the green beyond the end of Kelsall Street :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9407-1.jpg

In any event, back at the other end of this alignment, it would seem be a very tight and steeply graded turn, between the business park and the bridge under Featherstall Road South . . .

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9417-1.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9416-1.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_0795-1.jpg

Not perhaps the prettiest bit of Phase 3, but if there are any plans available, would appreciate a shufty! :cheers::banana:

# motortownman, no-one has worked as hard as you to get the Eccles line through to Ashton, and I wish you all the best!! (still can't get my head round those 'tri-line' timetables):nuts:

I don't know if you've noticed but Exchange Square has been named as the only stop on the 2CC:
http://www.metrolink.co.uk/pdf/future_metrolink/second-city-crossing-landscape.pdf


Looking at this map it struck me that if a curve could be included between Mosely St and Princess St then (at a much later date), we have the possibility of a route down John Dalton St/Bridge St to Salford Central Station.

This could then be used for Tram-Trains from Marple to Wigan.

In any event, back at the other end of this alignment, it would seem be a very tight and steeply graded turn, between the business park and the bridge under Featherstall Road South . . .

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9417-1.jpg


That staircase should be isolated, restored and preserved as a monument of Oldham Werneth Station.

The Airport Line frequency issue is interesting as almost all his slides were dated March 2011 and not only did the map show 10 tph on the Airport but he kept referring to 35 tph between Cornbrook and St Peter's Square. That he said was made up of 10 Altrincham, 10 South Manchester, 5 Eccles and 10 Airport. He was questioned about it as well because he quoted 40tph through Cornbrook junction and a colleague asked about the difference between the 40 tph approaching Cornbrook and 35 tph beyond. His answer was the 5 MediaCityUK turnbacks and he did say that the present Piccadilly Shuttle is temporary.

Are they ordering more trams then? I didn't think they'd have enough to run 10tph from Victoria to the Airport (If that is the route)

See now I'm confused. If 2cc is needed for the airport line to open, how can they not start it until 2015 if the airport line is due to open in 2016...?

I imagine the Airport line will open in a couple of stages. They could turn the trams around at Cornbrook until 2CC was complete.

It looks as though Mr Purdy was fed duff info by his team. The website definitely shows 12 minute interval for the Airport, perhaps he needs to ask on here first, LoL!

I do recall seeing somewhere that pre 2CC the Airport services would need to terminate at Cornbrook.

I personally think that if it was possible it would be better for the MCUK service to turn at Piccadilly (BBC types travelling up from the smoke etc) and Eccles services to move to Victoria if it could cope with 10 TPH terminating.

I knew I'd seen something about this before. Ive just found my copy of the "Metrolink capacity along Cornbrook Viaduct and through the City Centre" dated 1st August 2008.

Its states that

* The Airport Line is 10tph.

Phase 3A

* Also says that "The Media City service to Piccadilly will terminate at Cornbrook" because of "the capacity of Mosley Street would be limited to 25tph"

"In the early stages of completion of phase 3B (by 2013)"

* If the Airport line opens before the 2CC then 10tph need to be turned back at Cornbrook. It does say as well at the 5tph turning back, "a number of services (5tph) from East Disbury and the Airport would also need to be turned back at Cornbrook".

* 30tph is possible along Mosley Street if "improved tram priority" "at signalled junctions on Mosley Street"

Completion of Phase 3B (post 2016)

* 2CC will be 25tph and 1CC will be 20tph.

* "If the Rochdale and Shaw trams are routed along 2CC, this will create the capacity for the media City trams to be routed from Piccadilly if required."

* "Completion of 2CC enables all services to be routed through the City Centre"

Report does note that service pattern's have yet to be finalised. I got this report off the GMPTE website. food for thought tho.

Cheers Mackenzie.

The Airport was reduced from 10 to 5 tph as part of the re-assessment following the defeat of TIF & the Congestion Charge in Dec 2008.
So I guess it has either been upgraded again, requiring more trams, or Mr Purdy's presentation figures were inadvertently out of date, almost certainly the latter I would say.

With the MediaCityUK service currently extended to Picc or Aytoun St, Mosley Street right now is running at 20tph each way, getting close to its stated capacity of 25. When Chorlton opens at 10 tph, presumably MC will be cut back to Cornbrook, and Mosley Street will then be 'maxed out' at 25 tph!! :omg:

Morning Freel, South Chaddeh is in the middle of a park, an unusual and ergo interesting location for a tramstop, only accessible on foot from either direction. It is best accessed from Coalshaw Green Road opposite Lancaster Street - the approach via Drury Lane and Canal Street is convoluted and not at all obvious from the Eastern end.


# motortownman, no-one has worked as hard as you to get the Eccles line through to Ashton, and I wish you all the best!! (still can't get my head round those 'tri-line' timetables):nuts:

Thanks for the info on South Chadderton Stop location I must have almost walked past it when I walked from Oldham to Central Park last month.

Hi

Good picture everyone who took them thanks. I always throught that at Werneth the line will turn off just before it get to Featherstall road Bridge and go up past them old building and then onto the road but saying that a Werneth they have make a road through near old station so they van can get down the so the line might use that.

I notice it say this on Itra website

"This begins at the bridge under Featherstall Road South. Leaving the phase 3a alignment the route turns northward and passes through Westwood Business Park. From satellite images on the web there appears to be space without further demolition. About 35 metres east of Featherstall Road South there will be a signal controlled crossing of West Street. The route passes over a cleared space just to the west of Greenwood Builders then through open ground, passing a covered reservoir and turning eastward to run parallel with Middleton Road".

http://www.lrta.org/Manchester/Oldham_Rochdale.html

Cheers Mackenzie.

The Airport was reduced from 10 to 5 tph as part of the re-assessment following the defeat of TIF & the Congestion Charge in Dec 2008.
So I guess it has either been upgraded again, requiring more trams, or Mr Purdy's presentation figures were inadvertently out of date, almost certainly the latter I would say.

With the MediaCityUK service currently extended to Picc or Aytoun St, Mosley Street right now is running at 20tph each way, getting close to its stated capacity of 25. When Chorlton opens at 10 tph, presumably MC will be cut back to Cornbrook, and Mosley Street will then be 'maxed out' at 25 tph!! :omg:

Thats interesting that they de-scoped but was that connected to the western loop? Or did they take the loop off but then later drop the trams down from 10 to 5? seems if this is right the loop got down down graded twice.

Does seem that the MC shuttle extended to Piccadilly is a good way to test the system out and can easily be cut back if needed as most passengers would see the extra bit as a bonus.

I notice it say this on Itra website

"This begins at the bridge under Featherstall Road South. Leaving the phase 3a alignment the route turns northward and passes through Westwood Business Park. From satellite images on the web there appears to be space without further demolition. About 35 metres east of Featherstall Road South there will be a signal controlled crossing of West Street. The route passes over a cleared space just to the west of Greenwood Builders then through open ground, passing a covered reservoir and turning eastward to run parallel with Middleton Road".

http://www.lrta.org/Manchester/Oldham_Rochdale.html

Cheers ro2 - that explains it fully. I must have read that half a dozen times on the lrta website and forgot to remember it (especially as it was written by a friend of mine)!! In any event, my pix seem to have caught the alignment fairly accurately!

Mackenzie, the Western Loop was dropped several years ago, about 2005 I think (lrta.org will also confirm that for us on the news pages). I don't think that was connected to the later decision to reduce the frequency, although there was an earlier plan to have 'Wythenshawe circulars' to link the hospital with all other parts of that community.

Went past Woodlands Road on the Piccadilly Line yesterday and they're people at the station there protesting against its' closure. Didn't manage to get any pictures but it was basically residents with banners such as "Don't trust Metrolink - they steal stations".

The situation was being monitored by 2 or 3 Metrolink officers.

Also, I don't think I'm wrong in saying that the ticket machines on one of the platforms there have all gone - could be wrong though because isn't this station still open?

I notice it say this on Itra website

"This begins at the bridge under Featherstall Road South. Leaving the phase 3a alignment the route turns northward and passes through Westwood Business Park. From satellite images on the web there appears to be space without further demolition. About 35 metres east of Featherstall Road South there will be a signal controlled crossing of West Street. The route passes over a cleared space just to the west of Greenwood Builders then through open ground, passing a covered reservoir and turning eastward to run parallel with Middleton Road".

http://www.lrta.org/Manchester/Oldham_Rochdale.html

I think that a large part of the space between Featherstall Road and the Tunnel was formerly used as a goods yard, and that it extends to the north, thus providing a convenient exit point.

Train Guard

* Also says that "The Media City service to Piccadilly will terminate at Cornbrook" because of "the capacity of Mosley Street would be limited to 25tph"

.......................

* If the Airport line opens before the 2CC then 10tph need to be turned back at Cornbrook. It does say as well at the 5tph turning back, "a number of services (5tph) from East Disbury and the Airport would also need to be turned back at Cornbrook".


If all these trams are gonna turn back at Cornbroolk then someone needs to come up with a viable & robust alternative to the ill-fated t.o.s. concept ~ and come up with it FAST!

After the debarcle that has been MediaCityUK to date I doubt anyone is going to be in a rush to let Thales loose on controling Cornbrook Junction without absolute expectation that tos will work flawlessly ..... something we seem to be no nearer to.

I bet that Metrolink are wishing they had just kept the conventional signalling arrangements on the junctions and LOS on the rest, but hey ho!

On a lighter note...

Welcome to Manchester 3033!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2611/5718783732_b3ab401056_b.jpg

Thankyou Flickr user 'drtime'

3049 is still on target for delivery Oct 11.

I bet that Metrolink are wishing they had just kept the conventional signalling arrangements on the junctions and LOS on the rest, but hey ho!

On a lighter note...

Welcome to Manchester 3033!


3049 is still on target for delivery Oct 11.

Conventional signalling wouldn't have coped with the 35 TPH through Cornbrook (plus 5 turnbacks). One thing that would be usefull would be the original idea of extending the platforms there using the now redundant bay platform length. That would mean that at least any bunching could be handled in the tramstop. Does anyone know why it was dropped?

TMS will get there, it just needs better dynamic testing under a wider set of operating conditions I think. In theory testing it on a small Delta Junction with plenty of conflicting moves should flush out most of the problems. It's just a great shame that the long suffering Eccles Line passengers have had to suffer all the pain.

I bet that Metrolink are wishing they had just kept the conventional signalling arrangements on the junctions and LOS on the rest, but hey ho!

On a lighter note...

Welcome to Manchester 3033!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2611/5718783732_b3ab401056_b.jpg

Thankyou Flickr user 'drtime'

3049 is still on target for delivery Oct 11.

They all seem to be coming through so quickly :) i see 3033 is halfway through having its doors dotted :lol:

Are you assuming all people in Greater Manchester are literate? Mind you, if you number them, you then discriminate from those who aren't numerate!

My volunteer has learning difficulties and loves travelling around on trains, trams and buses. He would have no problem in understanding numbers or colours, but may struggle understanding some destinations if they have similar names. E.g. Bury and Bolton (if trams went there). Luckily for him he has no problem talking to anyone and will just ask where trains go to if he's not sure.

The coloured lines in Sheffield work well, but the newer LED signs on the trams don't always show the true colour. Yellow can look orangey etc.

Hi Steve and welcome - wow, people wanting to use Central park already!:banana:

- Change at Victoria to remain at the same platform without walking.

- Or at Market Street and walk across to Picc Gdns if the more frequent service is needed.

- Don't go to St P's Square - too far out of the way. (Edit - although I can't work out whether this will still be good advice after 2CC opens, but that's 5 years away yet!) In any event, at the moment it's probably quicker to get off at Market Street and walk the half mile straight ahead to Piccadilly station!


Hi Johnny. I realise you could walk between Market St and Picc Gdns but this is not so pleasant at night in winter!

My point is that 5tph between Victoria and Piccadilly stations seems rather sparce when there are 15tph via St Peter's Sq.

Several of us just missed getting a pic Steve when those trams were up there a few weeks ago! If you see any more lurking around Pringle Henge [I](loving that name, what is it?).

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/s.r.perkins/Pringle%20Henge.jpg

Here is a poor quality picture (taken on my phone) of a test tram at Pringle Henge Station (Central Park) on 4th April.

Legend has it that on the Summer Solstice the shaow of the station spike falls on the sculpture in the middle of the square-about (sic).

Nothing much happening since then!

Legend has it that on the Summer Solstice the shaow of the station spike falls on the sculpture in the middle of the square-about (sic).
SSC Tram-followers meet at Central Park, sunrise 24th June?

SSC Tram-followers meet at Central Park, sunrise 24th June?

21st June might be a better choice.

Here is a poor quality picture (taken on my phone) of a test tram at Pringle Henge Station (Central Park) on 4th April.

Legend has it that on the Summer Solstice the shaow of the station spike falls on the sculpture in the middle of the square-about (sic).

Nothing much happening since then!

I dislike that square-about, as vehicular traffic treats it like an unmarked multi-lane roundabout, which it clearly isn't.

When PH/CP does open, I forsee plenty of pedestrian/vehicular collisions on those supposed crossing points.

East Manchester Line progress notes:

Tracklaying will commence on 17th May from the eastern end of the Droylsden stop (where the substation is) towards the Medical Centre, expecting to take around 14 weeks to complete.

Stopping Up Orders come into effect on Fletcher Square and Boond Street on 23rd May.

Extinguishment of Vehicular Rights Orders come into effect on 30th May in the Portugal Street East, Holt Town and Eccleshall Street areas, meaning barriers will be removed, only non-vehicular traffic (pedestrians/cycles) other than trams, will return.

Legend has it that on the Summer Solstice the shaow of the station spike falls on the sculpture in the middle of the square-about (sic).

Well, actually not far off...! Though I think the sun will be too high in the sky for the shadow to actually reach the 'sycamore seed'. Sunrise and sunset are far to the north but this is the situation at 12.35 on the 21st June. The thin orange line is the sun's position in relation to the marker......

Software is The Photographer's Ephemeris (http://photoephemeris.com/) (free).

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/loweskid/Skyscrapercity/ephemeris.jpg

Thanks Steve. If I'm not mistaken that's the first ever shot of a tram (or trams!) at Central Park station.

As for the Piccadilly situation - you would certainly be best changing at Vic. In the time it takes you to get to SPS, you'd already have climbed aboard a Picc tram at Victoria. Also you would have to walk across to the opposite platform if you were to change at SPS.

And once Central Park opens, the MC shuttle will only run to Cornbrook, meaning just 10tph to Picc through SPS. Another reason why Vic is your best option :)

Went past Woodlands Road on the Piccadilly Line yesterday and they're people at the station there protesting against its' closure. Didn't manage to get any pictures but it was basically residents with banners such as "Don't trust Metrolink - they steal stations".

The situation was being monitored by 2 or 3 Metrolink officers.

Also, I don't think I'm wrong in saying that the ticket machines on one of the platforms there have all gone - could be wrong though because isn't this station still open?

Abraham Moss only has one so they could have taken one.

Abraham Moss only has one so they could have taken one.

I believe that it was intended that the TVMs for Abraham Moss would be taken from Woodlands Road as obviously it was supposed to close before the new stop opened. Sounds like they now have one each.

Having one TVM at Woodlands Road signals Metrolink's insistence on closing Woodlands Road.

There isn't a direct walking route between the Bury and the City Centre platforms. I have just looked on Google Earth and the route between the two platforms (using the stairs, not the longer ramp) is 250 metres.

Abraham Moss is only about 400m away. So, for more people, Abraham Moss becomes the preferred (nearer) option, when buying a ticket.

Metrolink can then say spin this as a patronage success for AM and a failure for WR, which furthers the case for closing the latter. Clever, eh!?

I can understand why they are protesting but its only 400 yards away, I have used Woodlands Road stop a couple of times and it really wasn't very nice.

Any news on TOS and the Chorlton line? Not been to have a look for a few days.

Last time I passed through Woodlands Road and Abraham Moss, they both had one ticket machine on each platform, so each station had two machines - can't see that having changed.

I also heard the machines from Woodlands would be used for Abraham, but with the changeover overlapping I suspect the Woodlands Road machines will eventually be used as spares or moved to Queens Road when that opens.

There must be loads of ticket machines waiting to be installed at all the new stations, so I don't believe one would be robbed from Woodlands so close to the end.

I'm travelling into Manchester tomorrow, so will make a point of checking!

I did look when I was at Abraham Moss (wanted to have a play and check out the implementation of heavy rail tickets) and only saw the one on the Manchester platform though I may just have missed one on the Bury platform or it may not have been there when I was there.

Actually there are Scheidt & Bachmann turner overdrives on both sides of Abraham Moss :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1485.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1486.jpg

In fact, the distance between there and Woodlands Road is negligible, but I feel the people well to the South of that area have a genuine gripe, as the original closure 'deal' was that WR would be replaced by both A Moss and Queen's Road. But about the latter, the subsequent silence has been deafening!
:banana:

Actually there are Scheidt & Bachmann turner overdrives on both sides of Abraham Moss :-

In fact, the distance between there and Woodlands Road is negligible, but I feel the people well to the South of that area have a genuine gripe, as the original closure 'deal' was that WR would be replaced by both A Moss and Queen's Road. But about the latter, the subsequent silence has been deafening!
:banana:

The Queens Road Stop was always subject to funding whereas the Woodlands Road/Abraham Moss deal was fully funded before they went for closure permission. By the way I like the Scheidt & Bachmann turner overdrives link:lol::lol:

The Queens Road Stop was always subject to funding whereas the Woodlands Road/Abraham Moss deal was fully funded before they went for closure permission. By the way I like the Scheidt & Bachmann turner overdrives link:lol::lol:

You ain't seen nothin' yet! especailly on the Chorlton and central Park lines :lol::lol:

And isn't that weird, that was just on the radio when I was reading this! spooooky

Progress at St Werbys! Firstly, 3 MPT guys doing what looked like finishing touches to the lift and stairs - cleaning the concrete, sweeping the steps etc

More interestingly, 7 or 8 GMPTE people on the platform itself, taking photos... That they were GMPTE and not MPT is surely a good sign no..?

Progress at St Werbys! Firstly, 3 MPT guys doing what looked like finishing touches to the lift and stairs - cleaning the concrete, sweeping the steps etc

More interestingly, 7 or 8 GMPTE people on the platform itself, taking photos... That they were GMPTE and not MPT is surely a good sign no..?

yes hope so, fingers crossed, anyway, thought you weren't allowed to look for at least 2 weeks and you did...:lol: that's another weeks ban.

Lol, genuine need to use the footpath! I tried keeping my eyes closed but kept bumping into street furniture! :)

Your comments are brilliant Martin as I don't get to see St Werbough's that often as the only time I am down there I am driving.

Was going to have a peak but the rain falls hard on a humdrum town :(

It really does, it fell very hard on a humdrum boy who lost his umbrella too :-(( the progress cheered me up a little.

Progress at St Werbys! Firstly, 3 MPT guys doing what looked like finishing touches to the lift and stairs - cleaning the concrete, sweeping the steps etc

More interestingly, 7 or 8 GMPTE people on the platform itself, taking photos... That they were GMPTE and not MPT is surely a good sign no..?

am i right in thinking that i read on here somewhere that the platforms etc were supposed to be handed over to gmpte sometime this month, could they finally be getting there hands on the line and some action might start happening soon?

This sounds like a good omen :)

Was quite glad in a way that it rained at the w/e & I didn't do my usual walk along the Fallowfield Loop & past St Werby's, en route to Morrison's.

"Once there was an engine attached to a train... " (Thomas the Tank, if anyone wonders!)

Just shows what can happen in a couple of weeks though. Perhaps a sign of a June opening? Which, until the 21st is still technically Spring.

I think the biggest giveaway to the line opening, will be the ads going up, the archways installed at the entrances & the signage on display.

As said above with the Art Festival, the Metrolink logo is appearing a lot in Chorlton at the moment. If they were not expected to open in the next couple of months I doubt they would have spent all the money sponsoring Chorlton Arts Festival.

As said above with the Art Festival, the Metrolink logo is appearing a lot in Chorlton at the moment. If they were not expected to open in the next couple of months I doubt they would have spent all the money sponsoring Chorlton Arts Festival.

They're gonna have to get a shift on... the festival starts next week....!

http://chorltonartsfestival.com/

They're gonna have to get a shift on... the festival starts next week....!

http://chorltonartsfestival.com/

Yep the Metrolink won't be open when the festival is on sadly, but I think the idea is that it will some how create a bit of a buzz around Chorlton a few weeks before opens.

Most people in Chorlton are not really that interested in the Metrolink yet.

OK to put the ticket machine rumour to rest once and for all, I travelled today and the stations at Abraham Moss and Woodlands Road have a total of four TVMs between them, one on each platform at both stations. So, there hasn't been any conspiracy to make life harder for Woodlands Road users after all!

Its interesting though that the one Johnny took against the wooden fence at Moss wasnt there when I was at the station 3 weeks later, its possible it was temporarily removed to be repaired or replaced.

Just come back the scenic way again. Couple of observations

Velopark now has its information screens up.

The last section of missing rails towards Edge lane on the street running section are now concreted in.

The roundabout on Lord Sheldon way next to KFC now has the familiar looking concrete base and steel pegs that will hold the rails in place. Woop!

Just come back the scenic way again. Couple of observations

Velopark now has its information screens up.

The last section of missing rails towards Edge lane on the street running section are now concreted in.

The roundabout on Lord Sheldon way next to KFC now has the familiar looking concrete base and steel pegs that will hold the rails in place. Woop!

That's three....:)

Seriously - thanks for the info. I'll have to have a walkabout with my camera when it stops raining (round about September, probably).

I only had two but I thought of another! My apologies :lol::lol:

Ive only seen the Ashton Line at night for the last Month. Damn crappy hours! September sounds about right!

idiom; a couple of, more than two, but not many, of; a small number of; a few: It will take a couple of days for the package to get there. Also, a couple.

Dont you just love the English language, you can actually write a phrase thats means something different to what it literally says.

Just come back the scenic way again. Couple of observations

Velopark now has its information screens up.



The roundabout on Lord Sheldon way next to KFC now has the familiar looking concrete base and steel pegs that will hold the rails in place. Woop!

Also in the centre of town at Ashton West stop earth moving equipment arrived last week and the foundations from the old maisonettes has been exposed and is now being broken up. Can't be long surely before the grass infront of Aldi will be dug up.

Just come back the scenic way again. Couple of observations

Velopark now has its information screens up.

The last section of missing rails towards Edge lane on the street running section are now concreted in.

The roundabout on Lord Sheldon way next to KFC now has the familiar looking concrete base and steel pegs that will hold the rails in place. Woop!

That's great news! That line is coming along big-style and hopefully soon the wires will be energised.

Passed the curve at Asda the other day and the overhead is neat, not too many poles and better being painted grey and not a dark colour. Maybe the bit in the middle won't be grassed and shrubs or something planted there which would mean easier maintainance?

So wonder who's gonna be there when the first one gets dragged through which may not be too far away?

Does anyone have the track layout for the new lines? Looking at doing a track map but other than the current stuff and the Airport extension I haven't got anything. Or if there is anything online a link would be of great help thanks.

Does anyone have the track layout for the new lines? Looking at doing a track map but other than the current stuff and the Airport extension I haven't got anything. Or if there is anything online a link would be of great help thanks.How about previous posts in this thread? (Some of which you have replied to!)

Feels like there's a huge difference in the number of trams running through town at the minute. I walked up Aytoun Street and 3 passed in one direction and one in the other. Usually you're lucky to see one. I took a stroll down Moseley Street to check it wasn't a fluke and sure enough they'ere eveywhere. Mainly the old trams though.

I'm pretty sure I read it a couple of pages back but will the MediaCity route still go from Piccadilly when the Chorlton line opens?

I do echo the concerns someone mentioned about the infrequency of trams between Piccadilly and Victoria in the future though. It seems neglected and considering they once suggested building the Pic-Vic. Will the Ashton line go through victoria?

Also what's with the 'Destination via station' stuff about on the displays? Eccles via MediaCity I can understand but Bury via Woodlands Road? Eccles via Pomona? What's the point? You could say it does no harm but I don't think the wording is big enough when they're spread over two lines.

I got a reply to an email I sent about the trees on mauldeth road west being felled... here's the reply! Being cut down THIS Friday?! I also asked about Chorlton opening but not surprisingly they are not committing themselves to anything! :-)


Dear Mr Southin,

Thank you for your e-mail to Metrolink.

The trees on the central reservation on Mauldeth Road West on the junction of Nell Lane will be removed on Friday 20th May 2011, the rest are envisaged to be removed September 2011.

The infrastructure on the new Chorlton Metrolink line is nearly complete with 'snagging' works currently being carried out.

The next stage is to install and commission the new Tram Management System and then commission and test the operation of the new line. This work is complex and requires integration with the existing network and thorough testing is needed to ensure the safety and reliability of services. The opening date for the South Manchester Line will be dependent on the outcome of the testing of the new tram management system. Once installation and testing is complete, we will carry out a programme of staff and driver training before we open the Chorlton line for passenger service.

Once the opening date is confirmed, we will be communicating this to residents and businesses in the local area. Information will also be available on our website www.tfgm.com.

I'm pretty sure I read it a couple of pages back but will the MediaCity route still go from Piccadilly when the Chorlton line opens?No, they need the paths from Cornbrook to run the Chorlton trams through to Picc.

I do echo the concerns someone mentioned about the infrequency of trams between Piccadilly and Victoria in the future though. It seems neglected and considering they once suggested building the Pic-Vic.Have you heard about the Ordsall Chord?

Also what's with the 'Destination via station' stuff about on the displays? Eccles via MediaCity I can understand but Bury via Woodlands Road? Eccles via Pomona? What's the point?The Eccles one is a bit odd, as the MediaCity trams don't include it. My guess is it's there because Pomona is the first stop on the SQ/Eccles line and they don't want people thinking it's going to Alty (or Chorlton ;) ). Woodlands Road is needed because not all trams stop there.

One of the drivers said the Pomona thing was due to it being the final TOS control station on the line.

One of the drivers said the Pomona thing was due to it being the final TOS control station on the line.

Thats right, TOS isn't switched on beyond Pomona so the PIDS cant recognise beyond there for the moment.

When the shuttle isn't running, the trams on the Eccles line call at MEC (except for the odd journey out first thing in the morning and again returning at the end of service) which is why you see Eccles via MEC.

Via Woodlands will appear on the tram displays during the hours that Woodlands Road is actually open, 1000-1600.

Went past st werberghs today. Two men cleaning and generally doing up the lifts. Information/maps on the boards seem to be up although i couldnt quite see as there are wooden boards resting on them.

As observed by one or two others, several new things have just arrived on the Velopark line, a couple of them this very day . . .

1. Traffic lights at the foot of Merrill Street governing the junctions with Holt Town, Ashton New Road, Every Street and the new alignment of Beswick Street :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/000_0032-1.jpg

As Tony mentioned, Velopark (and Holt Town btw) now has PIDs, albethem still boarded up :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/000_0034.jpg

And B. also to-day, the tramstop's very own footbridge was lowered in over the Ashton Canal, joining the stop to its eponymous Velodromes :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1953.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/newsiteplan-1.jpg

Last year :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_8425-1.jpg

To-day :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/000_0021-2.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/000_0023.jpg

As well as the foot overbridge from the Velodrome, there is also a new access path from the Southern canal bank - to the Velopark stop and Ashton New Road, which was not previously accessible to the canal at this point :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_8428-1.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/000_0024-1.jpg

Before :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_5604-1.jpg

And after :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/000_0027-2.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/000_0026-1.jpg
:banana:

Went past st werberghs today. Two men cleaning and generally doing up the lifts. Information/maps on the boards seem to be up although i couldnt quite see as there are wooden boards resting on them.

Someone get down there with a telescopic lens.

It the new maps are up they will have the Chorlton line on, want to know the colour :)

Conventional signalling wouldn't have coped with the 35 TPH through Cornbrook (plus 5 turnbacks).
If conventional absolute block wouldn't have coped theres no way tos will. T.B.H. I belive tos concept is - whilst technically inspired for certain applications - lacking for its required role at MetroLink. tph is easily varied and 35 is well within the capabilities of the existing system whilst mainaining timetabled pathway seperation

TMS will get there,
Eternal optimism whilst applauded isn't gonna compensate for what has become of it so far and the results to date! :ohno:

it just needs
Answers on a postcard please ..... :nuts:

It works elsewhere though doesn't it?

Many German systems operate on similar systems with more than 1tpm (40 sec headway is best I have heard of) essentially line of sight operation should be simple, it is just getting the junctions sorted.

Do you have insider information or are you a MEN type commentor?

Thats right, TOS isn't switched on beyond Pomona so the PIDS cant recognise beyond there for the moment.
But what does that have to do with Pomona being shown on the tram? Is the destination board controlled by TMS or the driver?

But what does that have to do with Pomona being shown on the tram? Is the destination board controlled by TMS or the driver?

Does it say it on the tram or inside on the displays, I didn't think it did?
Is it not only on the PIDs at mediacity it says via Pomona? I've never seen it on a destination display only Eccles/ Piccadilly via mediacity. Or have i misread what you meant?

It works elsewhere though doesn't it?

Many German systems operate on similar systems with more than 1tpm (40 sec headway is best I have heard of) essentially line of sight operation should be simple, it is just getting the junctions sorted.

Do you have insider information or are you a MEN type commentor?

There is a document somewhere that states that the Cornbrook viaduct could handle up-to 84tph using Line of Sight.

Someone get down there with a telescopic lens.

It the new maps are up they will have the Chorlton line on, want to know the colour :)

Ooh yes, anyone with a 30x zoom lens get down to St Werbys!

I will do tomorrow, not quite got 30x but I do have a very good bridge camera :).

Ah, Germany. I was passing through Cologne a few weeks ago and managed to have a wander about, looking for what I believe from this forum to be their version of our Bananas. Spent a happy half hour watching them crossing the Rhine in a dedicated two track section of a large high level bridge shared with road traffic. I'm no expert but they were keeping up a good speed (without obviously wobbling everywhere) and there seemed to be one in each direction every couple of minutes. They use numbers to differentiate the different lines, something I think we should copy.

But the biggest surprise is that in all the time I was there I saw not one single solitary tram - every movement was a double. It was just after 9am but not a sign of crush loading.

East Manchester Line - Ashton

Due to an internet ban at work, I've been unable to upload images which I got this weekend just gone, so here goes......

Ashton Terminus

As someone earlier said the foundations for the previous dwelling are now visible.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00259.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00260.jpg

Ashton Ikea Roundabout

The highway construction has been progressing well including the provision of beany block kerbs to assist in drainage.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00261.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00262.jpg

The roundabout has to be widened to accommodate the displaced traffic.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00264.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00265.jpg

Between Ikea Roundabout and Richmond Street (Ashton West stn)

The displaced traffic will use what's now the central reserve which is making way for carriageway construction.
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00266.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00267.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00269.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00270.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00271.jpg

Can you see the "Wide" part of the grass "verge"? This will IMO be the crossover point where traffic in the central reserve will rejoin the former carriageway and trams will switch from central reserve to the carriageway.
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00272.jpg

Ah, Germany. I was passing through Cologne a few weeks ago and managed to have a wander about, looking for what I believe from this forum to be their version of our Bananas. Spent a happy half hour watching them crossing the Rhine in a dedicated two track section of a large high level bridge shared with road traffic. I'm no expert but they were keeping up a good speed (without obviously wobbling everywhere) and there seemed to be one in each direction every couple of minutes. They use numbers to differentiate the different lines, something I think we should copy.

But the biggest surprise is that in all the time I was there I saw not one single solitary tram - every movement was a double. It was just after 9am but not a sign of crush loading.

Most of the time they are doubles right through the day. In the subways they can be crush loaded and also on the lines 1,2 7 and 9 with the lowfloor trams, so much that they are looking at making them 3 cars sets, which means all the platforms would need to be lenghtened. Unfortunatley due to the tunnels collapsing the subway for 3 of the lines will be nearly 6 years late opening,and this was to provide more direct routes and to try to aleviate the overloading. The route simplificaction has helped, but the delays in the subway between the main station and Post Strasse compared to say 10 years ago is something that can't be solved till the new subway opens. Trams can be crawling through 5 or six stations right behind each other, something that I hope won't happen on the Cornbrook viaduct.

Does it say it on the tram or inside on the displays, I didn't think it did?
Is it not only on the PIDs at mediacity it says via Pomona? I've never seen it on a destination display only Eccles/ Piccadilly via mediacity. Or have i misread what you meant?No, I'm mixing up the tram board with the PIDs! Ignore me.

Most of the time they are doubles right through the day. In the subways they can be crush loaded and also on the lines 1,2 7 and 9 with the lowfloor trams, so much that they are looking at making them 3 cars sets, which means all the platforms would need to be lenghtened. Unfortunatley due to the tunnels collapsing the subway for 3 of the lines will be nearly 6 years late opening,and this was to provide more direct routes and to try to aleviate the overloading. The route simplificaction has helped, but the delays in the subway between the main station and Post Strasse compared to say 10 years ago is something that can't be solved till the new subway opens. Trams can be crawling through 5 or six stations right behind each other, something that I hope won't happen on the Cornbrook viaduct.

Thanks Motortownman - it's easy to be overawed as a tourist and it's important to have that perspective, every city has it's problems.

Still good to see them as permanent doubles though :)

Ooh yes, anyone with a 30x zoom lens get down to St Werbys!

Someone get down there with a telescopic lens.

It the new maps are up they will have the Chorlton line on, want to know the colour :)

I will do tomorrow, not quite got 30x but I do have a very good bridge camera :).

I can't wait to find out what colour the lines going to be. Feels like more progress is coming now after a couple of months of nothing.

If conventional absolute block wouldn't have coped theres no way tos will. T.B.H. I belive tos concept is - whilst technically inspired for certain applications - lacking for its required role at MetroLink. tph is easily varied and 35 is well within the capabilities of the existing system whilst mainaining timetabled pathway seperation

Eternal optimism whilst applauded isn't gonna compensate for what has become of it so far and the results to date! :ohno:

Answers on a postcard please ..... :nuts:

30tph is the maximum for the current signalling through Cornbrook theoretically. The route was signalled for a 90 second headway between GMex and Trafford Bar before Cornbrook Stop was opened and the stop reduced the throughput somewhat. An additional signal was needed on the inbound just after the points from the Eccles Line to make that work reliably. How many times did inbound trams for Altrincham have to wait for an Eccles tram to clear Cornbrook and be approaching GMex? No-one would ever try to pass the theoretical maximum number of services through a signalling system, there always needs to be some recovery allowance. A signalling system capable of dealing with 40 to 50 tph on a section of double track would be expensive and inflexible and isn't needed for a tramway. I am not sure why you think that Line of Sight can't cope with 35tph.

TMS isn't just being driven by the Cornbrook issue though. There has been pressure from a number of sources, not least HMRI, to make the system consistent throughout and bring Metrolink into line with the other tramways. Phase 3 could never have been built with a signalling system it was unaffordable. The block signalling is a legacy from the usual British reluctance to adopt change and was only provided because in 1991 the concept of unsignalled rail vehicles driven on line of sight at 50mph was not thought acceptable despite being quite normal in Europe.

I am an optimist, TMS will be brought in and will work. Yes there have been and perhaps still are challenges, but that's the nature of progress.

As for the point about thorough testing I still believe that is the key to reliable operation. The problem is simulating every combination of event on a factory test rig. The existing control system suffered exactly the same problems during its forst few months.

Without change we would all still be living in caves.

trinity - fact for today. There are more trams than buses in Cologne.
The Germans have a vastly different approach to public transport than we do in the UK so drawing analogies with them can do little more than make you very depressed.

maybe you can answer this Freel please? I went to Bury last saturday and on the way back there was a signal problem at the level crossing just south of Bury. The signal was on red. A tram was also stuck going towards Bury. Now then, the driver made a call and was obviously told to set off, but when we went through the light the tram didn't do the emergency stop that you usually get warned about, so how can they over ride this? Even 2 old ladies watching commented! I thought Bury still had the old type signalling, so surely we should have been brought to a halt? It was a 3xxx by the way that we were on.

Still good to see them as permanent doubles though :)

They do have some though that can be permanently coupled together. They are about 20 years old and only have a cab at one end so where the cab would be provides extra 6 seats and 4 standing. They are back to back, so there is a cab at each end of the formation as there aren't turning circles in many places now. They do look rather strange!

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pictures+of+cologne+trams&hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-Address&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=F3_TTYOpOtS28QO1t8XlCg&ved=0CCgQsAQ&biw=1259&bih=659

Sixth row down and 2nd picture from the left! or the 15th down on the right! Also pics there of the "sprint" which was the supposed saviour till the accident which caused the fallout with Siemens and then the K5000 came into light. Ours though are much better.

Cologne had major problems last year when it was discovered on of the cross rhine bridges, that carries several of the tram routes, had serious structural weakness and had to be closed for an extended period of time. It led to significant disruption across the whole network.

maybe you can answer this Freel please? I went to Bury last saturday and on the way back there was a signal problem at the level crossing just south of Bury. The signal was on red. A tram was also stuck going towards Bury. Now then, the driver made a call and was obviously told to set off, but when we went through the light the tram didn't do the emergency stop that you usually get warned about, so how can they over ride this? Even 2 old ladies watching commented! I thought Bury still had the old type signalling, so surely we should have been brought to a halt? It was a 3xxx by the way that we were on.

the 3*** trams have an ats overide button, when pressed it gives the driver 10 seconds to pass the signal without recieving a brake application making it more comfortable for passengers! the 1*** trams have a similar button but when the signal is passed the ats (passed red signal buzzer) still sounds and the driver has to bring the tram to a controlled stop to reset it.

the 2*** trams have not had it fitted yet!

Cologne had major problems last year when it was discovered on of the cross rhine bridges, that carries several of the tram routes, had serious structural weakness and had to be closed for an extended period of time. It led to significant disruption across the whole network.

That's right, there could only be one tram on the bridge at a time, but that seems to have been fixed. That threw out the timetables and caused major overcrowding and delays. Then there was the tunnel collapse on the new line taking the National Archives with it.

It seems they are having worse problems there than we do but for major things and not just breakdowns. The trams are dirty, scruffy, graffitied and generally shabby in a choice of not always good liveries sometimes nearly worn off completely...lol but they seem to keep going.

So people in Manchester, there are times it is better here

the 3*** trams have an ats overide button, when pressed it gives the driver 10 seconds to pass the signal without recieving a brake application making it more comfortable for passengers! the 1*** trams have a similar button but when the signal is passed the ats (passed red signal buzzer) still sounds and the driver has to bring the tram to a controlled stop to reset it.

the 2*** trams have not had it fitted yet!

Do all 1xxx trams have this? Or just the updated ones?

maybe you can answer this Freel please? I went to Bury last saturday and on the way back there was a signal problem at the level crossing just south of Bury. The signal was on red. A tram was also stuck going towards Bury. Now then, the driver made a call and was obviously told to set off, but when we went through the light the tram didn't do the emergency stop that you usually get warned about, so how can they over ride this? Even 2 old ladies watching commented! I thought Bury still had the old type signalling, so surely we should have been brought to a halt? It was a 3xxx by the way that we were on.

As Metman says the M5000s have an ATS override feature which allows them to be called past a signal without the emergency brake application. I didn't realise the modification carried out on the T68s was slightly different or that the T68As hadn't been fitted yet.

Do all 1xxx trams have this? Or just the updated ones?

All, but the driver can only press the override switch when in shunt mode, limiting the tram to 10mph, and once the tram has passed the signal the driver has to stop the tram to reset the ats, if he releases the override button while the tram is still moving then the track brakes drop and the tram will still come to a sudden stop!

All, but the driver can only press the override switch when in shunt mode, limiting the tram to 10mph, and once the tram has passed the signal the driver has to stop the tram to reset the ats, if he releases the override button while the tram is still moving then the track brakes drop and the tram will still come to a sudden stop!

Have you guys heard anything about Driver Training on the Chorlton line or when TMS might be going live?

Have you guys heard anything about Driver Training on the Chorlton line or when TMS might be going live?

heard nothing! training on old trafford depot is due to start in the next few weeks but other than that nothing about the new lines so don't be holding your breath! :ohno:

OK Went up to St Werboughs before and got chatting to one of the workers. He was saying he has been contracted to the end of August and that the line is due to open by the end of August.

Not sure if that is good or bad news.

OK Went up to St Werboughs before and got chatting to one of the workers. He was saying he has been contracted to the end of August and that the line is due to open by the end of August.

Not sure if that is good or bad news.

suppose he could be contracted till then to finish any snagging jobs that need doing on the stations etc and i would assume the line would still open if they were only a minor fix

While we wait, the grass is growing greener around Clayton and Canalside Crossing :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2003.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_1888.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2007.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2008.jpg

Gradually getting there, bit by bit. :banana:

Originally Posted by loweskid
From 'The Advertiser' today....

Air your views on Metrolink.

Residents concerned about the Metrolink are invited to have their say at a public meeting in Droylsden. Councillors will be joined by Metrolink chiefs at Droylsden Academy on Cryer Street, from 6.30-7.30 on Thursday May 19.

Hope to see you there, High-Fi, and anyone else who wishes to ask questions.
I will be wearing a dark blue polo shirt with "The Gardeners Arms Pool Team" crest, as we have a match later on.

Meanwhile, the line from Eastlands to Picc is edging nearer and nearer to testing. Man City Eastbound :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/000_0030-1.jpg

More shots of the new traffic lights on Merrill Street :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2011.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2010.jpg

Cleaning out the predestinate grooves - ready for action ? :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2013.jpg

New signage - speed limit 20 East of New Islington :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2019.jpg

West of Great Ancoats Street, the way through is getting greener :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2021.jpg

The new footpath turns round the corner of the white building :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2025.jpg

More new signage for the footpath further West :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2028.jpg

It's also getting greener behind Piccadilly :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2031.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2033.jpg

From the East, this is Banana! Bring it on! :banana:

predestinate - that's a good word...!

There was a young man who said "Damn!
I perceive with regret that I am
But a creature that moves
In predestinate grooves
I'm not even a bus, I'm a tram.

Not my creation - Maurice E. Hare (1886-1967)

I hope to get to the meeting tomorrow but I may be late home.

I must admit, I had my concerns about this line compared to the Oldham and South Manc line due to the lack of segregation, but it's looking absolutely fantastic! :cool:

Hope to see you there, High-Fi, and anyone else who wishes to ask questions.
I will be wearing a dark blue polo shirt with "The Gardeners Arms Pool Team" crest, as we have a match later on at the Buxton Inn.

I hope to get to the meeting tomorrow but I may be late home.

Cracking update Johnny - thanks for taking the time to share.

I'll be getting there straight from the office. (White Balmoral shirt, navy cardigan). Hope to see you there too Loweskid, the more the merrier, let them know how much crap we've had to put up with. (It will be worth it in the end - it's just been a bit of a nightmare for far too long)

Carl

If conventional absolute block wouldn't have coped theres no way tos will. T.B.H. I belive tos concept is - whilst technically inspired for certain applications - lacking for its required role at MetroLink. tph is easily varied and 35 is well within the capabilities of the existing system whilst mainaining timetabled pathway seperation

Eternal optimism whilst applauded isn't gonna compensate for what has become of it so far and the results to date! :ohno:

Answers on a postcard please ..... :nuts:

Yes, bring back signalmen in boxes with levers:

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad200/Vernon151/ChorltonJnSB2.jpg

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad200/Vernon151/ChorltonJnSB2.jpg[/QUOTE]

There's plenty of room for one of those in the triangle at the mediacity junction. It could be called Broadway Junction and have room at the side for a white van. Between trams ,the signalman could tend to the grass outside :lol::lol::lol::lol:

Great update JdR

Quick question:

Why are the rails so rusty?

Have they started putting the GPS aerial equipment that will be linked to the PIDs along that section of line yet?

Why are the rails so rusty?
That's what happens to steel if you don't polish it regularly!

(The approved polishing tool is a tram wheel ;) )

I think I'm going to enjoy the East Manchester line - it looks like a real tramway. And there's a very nice cheap hotpot going in Ashton Market Hall.:banana: Day out...

While we wait, the grass is growing greener around Clayton and Canalside Crossing :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2007.jpg



Looks like someone at the Bilston British Waterways workshop doesn't know where Clayton is :D

Great shots as always!

Best,
Slip

New signage - speed limit 20 East of New Islington ]

Thanks for the updates.

Anyone got any thoughts on the speed limit between Merrill Street and COMS? The track is totally separated from roads and pedestrians and is relatively straight, isn't it? You'd have though it'd be able to pick up a decent speed.

Looks like someone at the Bilston British Waterways workshop doesn't know where Clayton is :D

Great shots as always!

Best,
Slip

Why should they know where Clayton locks are anyway?
We aren't in the west Midlands.

They're proper powering ahead on the Didsbury line!

Withington Station:

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/Didsbury%2019052011/08.jpg

Burton Road station now has the familiar huge machine things on it! Piling ahoy:

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/Didsbury%2019052011/07.jpg

Didsbury Village is looking interesting - why the central piles??

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/Didsbury%2019052011/06.jpg

Clearing something from the other end of the tunnel...

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/Didsbury%2019052011/05.jpg

Looking towards West Didsbury - the foundations for the OLE can now be seen @-)

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/Didsbury%2019052011/04.jpg

Things are coming on at West Didsbury station

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/Didsbury%2019052011/03.jpg

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/Didsbury%2019052011/02.jpg

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/Didsbury%2019052011/01.jpg

Great updates on East MAnchester and Didsbury Johnny and Martin. Those piles at Didsbury Village are interesting, it almost looks like a central wall is being constructed. Surely they aren't putting a raft over it there!!

Well that's what I was thinking, could they be extending the tunnel up to School Lane bridge??

Oldham and Rochdale Line - Oldham Mumps STATION

From the good vantage point over the A62, can see more excavation near the old B&Q. Must be the new junction going in.
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00288.jpg

Still see the big piles of concrete sleepers on the right so wasn't expecting much progress at the new station.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00289.jpg

I was pleasantly surprised at the amount of progress - new tracks are already laid! :eek2:

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00290.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00292.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00291.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00293.jpg

As we look towards Werneth, we can see the old tracks are being kept as they were - wise move considering trams will only run along here for 3 years max. As someone posted earlier the new tracks/sleepers are only for the realignment for the new island platform.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00294.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00295.jpg

Oldham and Rochdale Line - Oldham Mumps Area


I was on a roll, so proceeded towards Mumps Roundabout. This photo's from Union Street looking along the proposed new side road onto the A62 Oldham Way.
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00296.jpg

Cannot get anywhere near the old subway! Several vantage points lost!

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00297.jpg

Now close to the former site of the North Bridge. Appears that Water main diversions are in progress.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00298.jpg

To the left and other side of the roundabout can see remants of the south abutment to the South Bridge. You can see there's yet a long ramp to be profiled considering the big level differences.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00299.jpg

View towards Rochdale, not much happening at the moment. Maybe they're prioritising the Central Park to Mumps section before working on Oldham - Shaw - Rochdale NR.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00300.jpg

From here you can see the A62 eastern approach to Mumps roundabout and the Western Approach. Basically the two approaches will be joined by a smooth curve, forming a wide continuous road. Lees Road will join it at right angles to form a T-junction. Metrolink will cross the junction diagonally.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00301.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00302.jpg

Lees Road approaching from the left this will be extended into what's now the site of the roundabout to form a T-junction with the mainline A62.

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00303.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00304.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00305.jpg

It's a pity we can't any longer go (legally ;)) into the centre of the roundabout.

Oldham and Rochdale Line - Oldham Mumps STATION
Hope you arn't trying to stir that argument/discussion up again...:lol:


As we look towards Werneth, we can see the old tracks are being kept as they were - wise move considering trams will only run along here for 3 years max. As someone posted earlier the new tracks/sleepers are only for the realignment for the new island platform.
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae306/Ashtonian_photos/Metrolink/DSC00294.jpg
Yeah that is how I thought it would get built - remember my 1minute diagram:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2079/5737419613_30d4b51886.jpg

Hi

Thanks for everyone who took picture of new line cheer. I'm bit surprise that the got track down at Mumps witch I don't even think the go new track down near Werneth but saying that I not go past they since last Monday (9 may). At Freehold Station they finally put the platform into place on both side know. Is they any news to when the line to Chorlton or Central Park will Open as Spring have only go four more week to go. One last thing in two week in might go down on East Manchester line to see the new line and Station but I what to know which bus do u catch from Ashton to Manchester that go place like droylsden and Eastland is it 216 bus or 219 bus, please can anyone tell me thanks.

Hope you arn't trying to stir that argument/discussion up again...:lol:

Well according to the "rules" Mumps was a station and so the new facility is therefore a station. ;)


Yeah that is how I thought it would get built - remember my 1minute diagram:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2079/5737419613_30d4b51886.jpg

Cheers Kris, thanks for your diagram once again!

Hi

Thanks for everyone who took picture of new line cheer. I'm bit surprise that the got track down at Mumps witch I don't even think the go new track down near Werneth but saying that I not go past they since last Monday (9 may). At Freehold Station they finally put the platform into place on both side know. Is they any news to when the line to Chorlton or Central Park will Open as Spring have only go four more week to go. One last thing in two week in might go down on East Manchester line to see the new line and Station but I what to know which bus do u catch from Ashton to Manchester that go place like droylsden and Eastland is it 216 bus or 219 bus, please can anyone tell me thanks.

You're welcome r02bapurdie!

We all agree Metrolink are fast running out of Spring! :D

The bus you need is the 216.

Well according to the "rules" Mumps was a station and so the new facility is therefore a station. ;)



Cheers Kris, thanks for your diagram once again!


Therefore where in any of Metrolinks` publicity do they state this is a Station? all the stops` are just that a STOP!

Is they any news to when the line to Chorlton or Central Park will Open as Spring have only go four more week to go.

Joydivision said recently that he chatted to a worker down at St Werbys station who told him to expect a late August opening. No idea how much the workers know about that sort of thing but august is looking more and more likely!

Joydivision said recently that he chatted to a worker down at St Werbys station who told him to expect a late August opening. No idea how much the workers know about that sort of thing but august is looking more and more likely!

No, the worker said that he was contracted to the end of August. It's pure speculation that this means an opening at the end of August.

No, the worker said the line was due to open by the end of august. I'm not saying thats true, I'm just saying that's what he said.

No, the worker said the line was due to open by the end of august. I'm not saying thats true, I'm just saying that's what he said.

OK, my mistake:-

"OK Went up to St Werboughs before and got chatting to one of the workers. He was saying he has been contracted to the end of August and that the line is due to open by the end of August."

Report on the road/metrolink line near the Airport Enterprize Zone, basically they want to bring forward Metrolink dual carriageway underpass construction on this section and combine it with the Airports road construction so they dont have to do it twice.

http://www.agma.gov.uk/cms_media/files/12_integration_of_metrolink_airport_extension_and_semmms_road_scheme.pdf

Thursday 19th May.

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz309/razzledazzle_2010/_DSC0004.jpg

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz309/razzledazzle_2010/_DSC0013.jpg

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz309/razzledazzle_2010/_DSC0014.jpg

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http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz309/razzledazzle_2010/_DSC0019.jpg

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz309/razzledazzle_2010/_DSC0020.jpg

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz309/razzledazzle_2010/_DSC0021.jpg

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz309/razzledazzle_2010/_DSC0022.jpg

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz309/razzledazzle_2010/_DSC0024.jpg

Freaking awesome!

Why are there concrete blocks either side of the tracks?

Wow nice set of Central Park pictures. Really does remind me of the some the areas around the DLR, peacefully sat there waiting for the people to come. I see there are buffers on the tracks at the north bound track and the southbound has a easily removed (well by hand) woodern buffer so they can delivery materials by rail if they need to.

Along with the other end of this line it just feels so close but not quite.

Great pictures mr.cool, the whole new net work is really coming together.

Anyone know what the regulatory bodies state is the maximum time allowed to respond to a FOI request?

I asked...

I am interested in what the date is that the consortia that is delivering the new tram operating system for Metrolink is / was contracted to have had the new system signed off into service by TfGM.

I am specifically interested in the individual dates the system was due to be signed off for...

MediaCity spur
Depot
Chorlton line
Altrincham line
Bury line

Many thanks
on 15th April and have had no response yet. Granted there have been several bank holidays in the mean time but it is still more than 20 working days now (what the DfT work to) since the request.

TfGM do not publish an SLA for getting back - is it worth me chasing do you reckon?



EDIT - I have chased them up to see what is going on.

Best British Metro Station since Heron Quays.

Anyone know what the regulatory bodies state is the maximum time allowed to respond to a FOI request?

I asked...

on 15th April and have had no response yet. Granted there have been several bank holidays in the mean time but it is still more than 20 working days now (what the DfT work to) since the request.

TfGM do not publish an SLA for getting back - is it worth me chasing do you reckon?

Remind them that you made the request and ask for acknowledgement of their progress might be a good move.

See my above edit - I have just done that exact thing, copying in craig.berry@tfgm.com
as the TfGM web site has him as the person to deal with any FOI queries.

and Craig Berry is out of the office until 30th June!!!

I think I will find another name!!!


moira.suringar@tfgm.com - your turn.

Come on TfGM, pull your fingers out.

I'm beginning to love Central Park more and more. The turquoise doesn't quite fit but to be fair it would probably look silly in yellow.

Great job mr cool! :)

Its copper/Glass isnt it, not paint?

Copper oxide I am guessing.

Verdigris.

Thanks to everyone for the fantastic updates - they're really powering ahead with the extensions especially on the East Manc line. Very impressive!

Any news from the meeting in Droylsden last night? Unfortunately I wasn't home in time.

I noticed a few of these signs have gone up along Manchester road - I'm sure they weren't there a couple of days ago.....

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/loweskid/Skyscrapercity/sign.jpg

Well, what a kaleidescopic photocornucopeia :nuts: over the last few days - brillant all round! :banana::cheers::banana:

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2061.jpg

Just to pick up on a few of the many points,

# Haven't noticed any GPS equipment on E Mcr as yet, but not dead certain what it looks like!!

# I have another version of the poem:
Said an irate philosopher, "Damn!"
This 'free will' is none but a sham.
I'm a creature that moves in predestinate grooves:
Not a car, nor a bus, but a tram!

# As on the two sections of Ashton Moss, there would seem to be no need for a speed limit between Holt Town and Man City, despite the slight curve over the Medlock bridge and the steep approach to the stadium. So the bananas ought to be able to thrutch along up to their capacity -
(50mph?) :banana2::banana2:

# I bet they are putting a raft over Didsbury and extending the tunnel. It would give birth to a very valuable piece of real estate and plentya wonga. . .

# Love the view from the footbridge at Mumps, which will be getting a lot more use before the year end - the whole landscape is morphing dramatically around there.

# ro2 To see the East Manchester line in its entirety you need a 216 as far as The Snipe, Audenshaw, then at the same bus stop change to a 217 (hourly) or a 7(every 20mins) for the last bit into Ashton. There's plenty to see on both sides, so don't blink or you'll miss it! However, the bit between Holt Town and Velopark has no road access and the Commonwealth Games footpath is closed at present, so to see those bits you would have to get off the bus and walk down Hillkirk/Cambrian Street, Rowsley/New Viaduct Street and/or the back of Manchester City Stadium.

# Thanks for the SEMMMS report, Watcher, about the final route into the Airport from Shadowmoss. Someone who spotted the underpass on the earlier diagram was correct, and it certainly makes more sense than a grade crossing of what will be an extremely busy and fast dual carriageway.

# loving the mr cool pictures of Central Park - atmospheric in the twilight, with the finback bridge poised and expectant in the background . . .

# Cats, unless you are going to actually litigate under the FOI, I wonder if there is all that much to be gained by continuing to press them for more info at this stage? My worry is that responding to the litigation could easily tie up several pairs of hands at tfgm, which would otherwise have been occupied actually getting on with the task in hand we are all waiting for. In other words, doing it, instead of just talking about it!! They seem to be inundated with requests at present, and arranged a public meeting in Droylsden last night for the latter purpose - I will post a report when I catch breath!

# Loweskid, those signs are now at all the stop locations towards Ashton - I wonder if they are now going to call that one 'Cemetery Road/John Street' - (even worse than the original)! It should be Droylsden West or even better, 'Sidebottom Street', but I have harped on about that before!!

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2082.jpg

The old and the new at Edge Lane :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2086.jpg

It's the wrong size! :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2080.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2085.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2043.jpg

:banana:

Hi

Thanks for info Ashtonian and Johnny, I might be going on Monday if the weather ok but I rememeber to go off the bus where u said Johnny. Good pictures of Central Park Mr cool, it nice to see the first bit of Oldham line near finish and also like they picture on east manchester line loweskid thanks.

and also like they picture on east manchester line loweskid thanks

If you mean the pics in the previous post above, they were Johnny's, not mine. But thanks anyway.

Incidentally, when you get off the 216 bus it's not all that far to walk into Ashton along Lord Sheldon Way.

Great updates again everyone - thanks!

Looking forward to your report on the meeting JDR. My lad decided that he wanted to tag along at the last minute so I was a bit distracted and missed meeting up with you to say hello.
There wasn't much to gain from my point of view from the meeting, the poor bloke from Laings got pretty much heckled down and with all the "angry public" silly questions, I thought better of asking a sensible question. I was going to enquire about the traffic management system heading from Moorside/Market Street and through the updated junction, hey-ho - I'll find out next year.
I couldn't believe how much time was wasted with pointless questions/comments. Subjects like "The tram should have gone down Ashton Old Road, not Ashton New Road", you know what mate, you're right, let's rip it all up and stick it down that road instead. It was more to do with venting of spleens than anything constructive. I couldn't work with the general public, that's why I'm working on my reclusive attributes.

I couldn't believe how much time was wasted with pointless questions/comments. Subjects like "The tram should have gone down Ashton Old Road, not Ashton New Road", you know what mate, you're right, let's rip it all up and stick it down that road instead.

I had a feeling it might end up something like that... (I've had to work with the general public in the past... no more, thank god... :bash: )

I was on 1017 this morning, it seems to still have its external mirrors?
Also is there a time in the timetable where there is a train and a tram next to each other at Navi Road?

There's still a few out there with mirrors on them, but must be getting down to fairly low numbers now that so many have had the modifications!

I had a feeling it might end up something like that... (I've had to work with the general public in the past... no more, thank god... :bash: )

Ditto.. Classic being "How many days are in a week?" ; err from a student. How scary is that?

.
# Loweskid, those signs are now at all the stop locations towards Ashton - I wonder if they are now going to call that one 'Cemetery Road/John Street' - (even worse than the original)!


What ! You don't want a stop named after it's biggest fan?

There's still a few out there with mirrors on them, but must be getting down to fairly low numbers now that so many have had the modifications!

1016 - 1020, 1024 and 1026 still awaiting mods.

1016 - 1020, 1024 and 1026 still awaiting mods.

1017 and 1018 too

He said 1016 to 1020 '-'

He said 1016 to 1020 '-'

Whoops sorry! :bash:

1016 - 1020, 1024 and 1026 still awaiting mods.

I think 1024 has cameras and not mirrors, but it hasn't had the other mods done yet.

four of the 2xxx have had the mods I believe including 2001.

Public meeting at Littlemoss Academy, Thursday 19.5.11, 1830-1930– a joint presentation by MPT, Metrolink and Tameside Council.

(Sorry for this very long post – please feel free to skip if not interested in Droylsden!)

You could feel the tension even before it started.

In an atmosphere of pent-up resentment brimming under the surface, a very nice young man from the contractors started by giving us a leisurely overview of the trials and tribulations of civil engineering. This included a summary of all the conflicting demands to be balanced between a wide variety of stakeholders; an extended panegyric to the virtues of the unique slip-form paving machine; the impact of different surfaces and materials upon the public realm; and much more.

Delivered at an elegiac pace, interesting though this was, it was not what some of the 50 or so people there wanted to hear, and after 25 minutes of simmering tension the volcano erupted. Hard to tell how many people were there simply to vent their anger and resentment at the extended disruption caused by the construction process, but a vocal half dozen certainly took over the meeting from then on.

The chairman had difficulty in keeping order, and tended to verbally descend into the fray rather combatively and sometimes unreasonably. Mind you, David Dimbleperson himself would have struggled to quell that particular baying tumult! Leaving aside the ‘noises off’, of the negative points which were actually raised, I would say only a couple might elicit real or objective sympathy, for example those who have lost access to their property or parking places, not just during construction but permanently, e.g. :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_9719-1.jpg

And secondly those local businesses which have struggled or failed altogether during the construction process. It is certainly true that Droylsden shopping precinct, once a bustling enclave with alfresco cafes, pubs, banks, tree-lined outdoor seating etc., is now a shadow of its former self, semi-abandoned with several prominently empty units. However, high rents by the private ownership of this 1960s (and ergo dated-looking) precinct, must also take a large share of the blame for its decline, and of course in a time of recession one can also see many other similar enterprises failing elsewhere, even where there is no tramway construction going on. I am told that GMPTE have cited this latter point as a defence against compensation claims, which has further riled the local business community, unreasonably or otherwise.

And so the meeting descended into pandemonium. All the other negative points, as high-fi has mentioned, were illogical, perverse, based on wrong information or will disappear along with the back of the construction work (October 11?). Steve Burns of Metrolink answered virtually all of these points, underlining all the clean and progressive benefits of tramways in general and coming to Tameside in particular, and actually managed to quieten the meeting for a little while. Before that, a gentleman from the Council had been talking about employment creation, and was asked about local apprenticeships, but his answer was drowned in the cacophony.

In summary, the remaining negatives seemed to come from people tied to their gas-guzzling cars, whose prejudice was not about to be mollified by facts. Lack of consultation (“Nobody wanted Metrolink”) arose more than once, and in fairness it was fifteen years ago – thanks to Darling’s ditherings the populace has probably forgotten it or moved on since then. But other points were plain silly, such as “cars will have to go elsewhere as they won’t be able to share the road with trams”; or “please move the trams down the Old Road”, “or on to the railway line and re-open Droylsden station”. Those last two were good ideas as additional projects of course, but irrelevant to the discussion at hand!

No mention was made of the ‘trambahn’ or the temporary reversing arrangements at Droylsden. (Perhaps such niceties are better left for another time as there is enough controversy for now . . .)

One interesting point raised, however, was that when the line goes through to Ashton, Droylsden might be by-passed as people look out of the tram window and go sailing through in half the time! Most of us would not see better connectivity as a de-merit, but to me the message is plain: Droylsden will have 18 months as a terminus, during which its name will be emblazoned all over the Metropolitan County, to set its stall out and demonstrate itself as an attractive destination for the future. Over to you, owners of the precinct and Tameside Councillors – charge reasonable rents and get some trees and fountains in the square like at Denton!

But to people who have been genuinely distressed by the construction project, there is no really meaningful answer that can be given, except sincerely expressed apologies that they had to be among the few to lose out, for the benefit of the greater good of society as a whole. Such has always been the case in the onward march of progress and civilisation. It’s too late to start again, and what a tragedy for those who actually lost their homes, if the project were to founder now. It nearly did twice under Darling, and might yet in Edinburgh where work has stopped altogether with the tramway half built.

So let’s move on to those positives which did manage to emerge above the din of the meeting. Here are some of the slides :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2075.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2074.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2072.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2073.jpg

In summary:

# From the contractors’ contribution we learned of additional benefits to the local environment on top of the vastly improved connectivity of a tramway. As well as the gratuitous improvements to the general utility infrastructure, in Tameside the enhancements to the public realm will stretch further beyond the roadway or swept path - one example being the quality paving (as opposed to tarmac finishes), which will be applied to the contiguous footpaths. So far as I could tell, credit for this goes to the input of Tameside councillors, and I was impressed by the enthusiasm and energy of Ian Cochrane, a local officer, who spoke about restoration of the town clock, signage and various landscaping projects, etc. Cllr Middleton also mentioned the cleaner air which will result from the reduction in carbon emissions.

# As mentioned, another officer spoke about the employment which has been created, and the potential benefits to the economy and opportunities for financial growth and stimulation. Incontrovertible also, is the fact that this project, now extended into the centre of the Metropolitan Borough, represents a staggering level of inward investment, especially when other areas of expenditure are feeling the full force of cuts and the recession.

# On connectivity, a lady Councillor reminded us of the great improvements which accrued from Phase 1&2 for commuting purposes. This of course will be enhanced further by park-and-ride, and by the cross-city routes which apparently only rail transport can provide, since Mrs Thatcher butchered the relevant bus protocols in 1987. (It so happens also that the Ashton line will be unique in having the potential to work through to all other Metrolink destinations!)

# This brings me to the high point of the meeting for me, which was the first opportunity to ask my longstanding question about journey times: “How long will it take to get from Droylsden to Manchester and to Ashton?” There were a few sidelong glances at the top table, and then a lady was brought from the back of the hall to respond. After another noisy diversion while she came forward, she did then come up with the actual answers: "approximately 15 mins and 10 mins respectively", - which ties in exactly with my predictions of about 12 months ago !! (24 mins Ashton-Picc). :cheers: The sidelong glances between the presenters clearly implied that this was regarded as something of a hot potato, but I really can’t think why, as provided no legalistic commitments are given, it amounts to a significant plus point in terms of publicity. And having seen more of the actual topography of the line as it emerges, I now think those figures are probably on the conservative side anyway.

I had to leave early for a pool match, so I don’t know how the meeting ended up, but as high-fi indicated, it took a brave person to speak up in favour of Metrolink in such an antagonistic bear-pit! However, looking back from the other end of Droylsden later on, I didn’t see any mushroom cloud over Littlemoss Academy, so I guess it must be still there . . .

To be honest, of the 50-odd people there only about half a dozen were loudly determined to disrupt the event, and you can’t really tell how representative they were of the general population. Even Pandora’s Box contained a ray of hope, and by serendipity one appeared in the Tameside Advertiser on the very same day :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/IMG_0002-28.jpg

So notwithstanding the baying wolves, the underlying support is out there somewhere – take courage and bring it on! :banana:

Whenever the day is that the Chorlton line opens, will the PIS tell passengers to change from Altrincham service at Cornbrook or Trafford Bar, or both do we think?

Thanks for the update Johnny. Those pictures of the finished stop look good. Let's hope the 'nimbys' will come to see the benefits eventually (and maybe Wilkin Jones will get their finger out and get on with the 'canal quarter', or is that too much to ask).

Public meeting at Littlemoss Academy, Thursday 19.5.11, 1830-1930– a joint presentation by MPT, Metrolink and Tameside Council.



:cheers: Excellent Post JdR.

P.S. Did you write that letter to the Advertiser? ;)

Fantastic report of the pandemonium Johnny, I was chuckling away reading it.

Cheers fellows. No, it was not me Ash, although I have written similar letters. (I redacted the name as we don't really have the person's permission to reproduce it, someone from Audenshaw).

Droylsden Marina will certainly enhance the area Lowes. They should call the stop that or Droylsden West - please tell me they are not going to call it 'Cemetery Road slash John Street' but I have a horrible feeling they are! Dear oh dear please preserve us from amateurs!

Droylesden Marina!

They expecting some very high tides then?

[I hate all this naming things what they are not]

Whenever the day is that the Chorlton line opens, will the PIS tell passengers to change from Altrincham service at Cornbrook or Trafford Bar, or both do we think?

Very interesting point that conn - we have touched on it before on here. Recent maps and car cards have shown Trafford Bar as a little crow, indicating an Interchange stop. But that involves a climb and descent of about 20ft in height , as well as a long schlep around the outside of the station, touching 3 separate public higways on the way. There is no sign of a barrow or at-grade crossing as yet.

Far easier to continue to Cornbrook for cross-platform interchange (albeit frustrating if you see your connection passing you!). BUT another thing occurs to me - with a ticket from Chorlton to Altrincham say, if inspected at Cornbrook would you be over-riding??

This would certainly be the case in other locations. Many years ago I was the ticket clerk at Uxbridge, and well remember how irritated and incredulous passengers became, on being told they had to change three times for Richmond. (This occurred at times when the Piccadilly Line was short-working to Rayners Lane and not stopping at Turnham Green, thereby involving an additional intermediate change at Acton Town!:nuts:) But we were not allowed to suggest Hammersmith or Earl's Court as a changing point, as this would have involved over-riding!

It will be interesting to see what happens at Trafford Bar . . .

Droylesden Marina!

They expecting some very high tides then?

[I hate all this naming things what they are not]

It is a marina..! It's got boats an' everyfin'.....

http://www.lowefoto.co.uk/latest2/page418.html

http://www.lowefoto.co.uk/latest2/page446.html

and this is what it was supposed to look like if and when it ever gets finished....

http://www.hollinwoodcanal.co.uk/droylsden.htm

It is a marina..! It's got boats an' everyfin'.....



Except the sea!

What's wrong with Droylesden Quay, or even at a pinch Port?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marina

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marina

But wrongly used. Why do we have to trash our heritage for the sake of small minded wannbes?

You see them on the cuts all the time with their yachting caps and braid.
There is absolutely no connection between the cut and the sea, no port or starboard, nothing.