TRANSPORT | Metrolink ‎Extension [Archive] - Page 37

Motortownman

June 1st, 2011, 06:40 PM

You can get to all destinations served by that stop via the ramp. Provided there is another sign or notice explaining what those destinations are then the entrance sign is perfectly fine. e.g. The platform signs say 'Trams to Manchester' or 'Trams to East Didsbury and Airport', which sounds clear enough to me.

I like the new branding and it's nice to see the totum poles with the logo on it going at the entrances to the Chorlton line stops. Shame it seems the Eccles stops don't seem to be getting these signs apart from 3 that I know of.
One of the nicest entrances to a stop is Pomona and it would have been good to see the old one removed and a new one in it's place, especially at night it would have been fantastic lit up.
The two and a half things I'm iffy about with the new branding is first of all the yellow arches, and for exactly the reason of graffitti which I said at the time. When they went up on the Altrincham line I thought OMG, they've just bunged a one size fits all thing at the entrances. And bascically that's exactly what they did.
After I've seen that they are making them fit properly into the entrances of the new stops in Chorlton maybe I'm starting to think differently. Yes I do like signs to be right, that's okay ,as a passenger too I do like clear signage. I can't help thinking the arches could be put to much better use though,such as the logo being next to the stop name. Where it says "trams to all destinations", although granted as you say it says different on the platform, I would have liked to see the real destinations with the line colour underneath the name or the line colours going all the way across the grey band. After all the map now has different colours, we don't seem to be getting line numbers , so colour coding may help some passengers.That's what I meant really about the arches but didn't say it very well as per usual.
maybe Volde could paint one up as an example..... hint hint.

Nowhere on the Eccles line apart from the 3 stops with the "flags" is the logo to be seen, which I think is strange seeing as they went to a lot of trouble to design it. It's also not on the new trams at all, again a bit odd perhaps?

The two things I do not like at all are the signs sticking out over the platforms showing where the disabled entrance is. They look cheap and nasty and am surprised the wind or vandals haven't bent them already. The signs too that stick out of the entrance to Piccadilly are already faded, dirty and look like they are hanging off the wall. I'm hoping something better comes along. Thankfully the half thing I wasn't keen on has changed. The emergency help ppoints in the city centre look like they were homemade. Thankfully after going up to Abraham Moss the new design looks much better and hopefully they will change the ones in the City Centre.

Motortownman

June 1st, 2011, 06:44 PM

The one I posted photos of on here pulled into St Werburgh's Road at a fair old lick... it definitely wasn't "crawling"... why do you ask?

it was to see whether they had just been run at at slow speed or proper line speed before stopping the testing. It would then mean that any problems with higher speeds are already sorted so less to do to get the line open! yes, I do want it to open, just as long as it works, then I can get to Croma for a bacon and egg pizza on the balcony! OH and a Perroni...

martin2345uk

June 1st, 2011, 06:45 PM

The two things I do not like at all are the signs sticking out over the platforms showing where the disabled entrance is. They look cheap and nasty and am surprised the wind or vandals haven't bent them already.

that's exactly what they have done at Old Trafford, looks like people have been swinging on it so now it points down like a signal :-(

WingTips

June 1st, 2011, 06:52 PM

martin2345uk

June 1st, 2011, 06:54 PM

ANC.

What's ANC...? I'm not good at abbreviations!

Motortownman

June 1st, 2011, 07:09 PM

Metrolink did say a few months ago that more illuminated flags would be erected and I am sure the ECC line was mentioned.

The new orange help points are much better and I think the first one was launched at MC, I think the original ones will just be painted orange for consistancy..this is what has happened at ANC.

The Eccles ones are fine too, they were repainted when they refurbished half of the stops. I received a response from metrolink regarding the eccles stop refurbishments. Apparently they are finished! Next time you use the line take a look and see if you agree. The lamp posts are bronze on the bottom, silver up to about 6 feet up , then some masking tape,and blue or black faded and peeling paint above that and the same for the CCTV poles. The posts on the ramps have not been painted at all and are either faded black or blue.
If I paid someone to do that for me I would be livid!
Apparently though, when the shelter contract ends, and they didn't say when, the shelter requirement will be reviewed.

flange

June 1st, 2011, 07:28 PM

What's ANC...? I'm not good at abbreviations!

Probably Anchorage.

LNGCats

June 1st, 2011, 09:03 PM

Right, I have put a reminder in my phone to call Craig Berry tomorrow to ask him what the hell is going on with my FOI request.

Johnny de Rivative

June 1st, 2011, 09:15 PM

So, 1st June . . . yet nothing coming from either TfGM or the contractors about what is actually going on.......

Patience, friends, as my mum used to say, a watched pot never boils! As Freel points out, until the Information exists, it cannot be granted 'Freedom' to be disseminated or anything else! Estimated is not Information, it is basically hunches, hopes and projections - abstract without a tangible existence - and you can't have an Ombudsman for guesswork!

Don't want to depress anyone, but the Croydon system missed its pre-announced opening date by nearly a year due to electrical problems, but now it is a cracking system. Time is a great healer!

My anxiety is that all this litigation and correspondence will use up more time and money going round in circles instead of getting on with the job, which they are surely trying their best to do? Does anyone believe the opposite? Surely it's not really plausible that they would be wilfully causing delays - I can't figure out whose interest would that serve, nor what offence or tort is actually being alleged . . .

Anyway they are sticking to their protocols. An item in to-day's RAIL magazine, headed "Metrolink openings in July?" quotes 'reports on the Internet' (I wonder where?), but only manages to elicit a standard response from tfgm mentioning "Central Park-St W's is nearly complete, apart from current snagging works, to be followed by installation and commissioning of TMS, then testing and commissioning of the new line. Opening dates will then depend on the outcome of this testing, and on the programme of staff and driver training". Nail-biting but incontrovertible as a sensible way forward!

And that's it! Beyond that they are clearly not going to go at this moment, and as regards Bury/Alti working through to East Mcr, and Velopark possibly opening in the Autumn, they would only repeat the published information; "Droylsden Spring 2012." I don't think anyone is going to get past this type of embargo, nor elicit commitments which are simply not there, until it happens!

However, to keep us going, there's a drip-drip of small things happening every day. E.g. new traffic lights arriving at the top of Merrill Street :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2388.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2390.jpg

New signs :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2391.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2394.jpg

New Islington :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2398.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2156.jpg

Progress also at Newton Heath :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2349.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2345.jpg

And new rails arriving for the finback bridge :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2350.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2339.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2342.jpg

:banana:

WingTips

June 1st, 2011, 09:18 PM

The Eccles ones are fine too, they were repainted when they refurbished half of the stops. I received a response from metrolink regarding the eccles stop refurbishments. Apparently they are finished! Next time you use the line take a look and see if you agree. The lamp posts are bronze on the bottom, silver up to about 6 feet up , then some masking tape,and blue or black faded and peeling paint above that and the same for the CCTV poles. The posts on the ramps have not been painted at all and are either faded black or blue.
If I paid someone to do that for me I would be livid!
Apparently though, when the shelter contract ends, and they didn't say when, the shelter requirement will be reviewed.

The shelters belong to JCDecaux...probably a sensible way to have them paid for at the time...of course Metrolink now has its own branding and part of that is supplying its own shelters at stops...so wonder when the other contracr runs our?

The posts on Eccle New Rd belong I believe the to council...hence the colour.

martin2345uk

June 1st, 2011, 09:31 PM

Progress also at Newton Heath :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2345.jpg

Is this bit single track? It's double track on the finback bridge then what happens here..?

Great photos!!

LNGCats

June 1st, 2011, 09:52 PM

Just to make it clear - my FOI is NOT asking when the line opens.

It asks in which month were Thales contracted to hand over to TfGM the signalling for...

MediaCity spur
Eccles line
Cornbrook to Deansgate Central
Depot
Chorlton line
Alty line
Bury line

I cannot see that being commercially sensative and I cannot see any justification for them not handing over that information.

In itself it won't tell us when the line is open, but it would open the lid slightly on this publicly funded scheme to give an idea of the kind of issues that they are facing and give an indication of how far an issues with TOS are slipping.

For example, initially were we not expecting Mosley St to close in March, however, that was dependant upon a couple of boards going up in the area with the next tram times - that clearly is no where near happening yet.

I am not expecting to be given an opening date - I just would like them to provide a fair amount of information about how the project is progressing.

Johnny de Rivative

June 1st, 2011, 09:54 PM

It will be double track martin throughout the area in the above pic when finished (I think you can see the sleepers piled up ready for action on the shorter bit of unfinished line)

It actually merges to single line in the far distance away from the camera, under Dean Lane Bridge for Newton Heath and Moston tramstop. I have posted a lot of pix from there to Failsworth above ^^ if you want to trawl back a couple of months! :cheers:

Oh, and just to confirm that the Eastern connection is now complete :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2421.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2411.jpg

:banana:

martin2345uk

June 1st, 2011, 10:00 PM

Ooh that must mean that early stage testing can start on that bit of line like it did a while back on Chorlton line...

Also the East Manchester line has what the Chorlton line doesn't, a full connection to the main network!

Looks ace.

r02bapurdie

June 1st, 2011, 10:11 PM

Hi

nice picture Johnny well done. Martin here what Newton Heath might look like and as u see the line took back into double line after bridge.

http://www.metrolink.co.uk/pdf/future_metrolink/oldham-rochdale-line/newton-heath-and-moston.pdf

martin2345uk

June 1st, 2011, 10:37 PM

Why thank you very much Andrew! Thats completely cleared that up for me. Quite an unusual layout, I like it - trams in both directions serving the same platform.

Cheers!

martin2345uk

June 1st, 2011, 10:48 PM

"Central Park-St W's is nearly complete, apart from current snagging works, to be followed by installation and commissioning of TMS, then testing and commissioning of the new line. Opening dates will then depend on the outcome of this testing, and on the programme of staff and driver training".

Only just noticed this one, makes it seem like we might have an awfully long way to go! :-(

ashley b

June 1st, 2011, 10:49 PM

Indeed, it will operate just like Navigation Road does currently, which is also single track with a heavy rail line beside it (though Navigation Road also has a Network Rail Station opposite too).

ExManc

June 2nd, 2011, 12:50 AM

Toadally agree with that Madferret, there seems to be a desire for over literal signs these days amongst some people.

Not like in the old days

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad200/Vernon151/WithingtonStationSign.jpg

Chorlton Bloke

June 2nd, 2011, 12:54 AM

Not like in the old days

Don't you just love the "Etc" on the end?

loweskid

June 2nd, 2011, 01:10 AM

Don't you just love the "Etc" on the end?

That's because they couldn't fit....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch_station_sign_%28cropped_version_1%29.jpg

....on it...:)

VoldemortBlack

June 2nd, 2011, 01:51 AM

^^

I have a friend who lives there and she taught me how to pronounce it - whether I can remember it or not is a different matter but ... :lol:

Chorlton Bloke

June 2nd, 2011, 02:00 AM

^^

I have a friend who lives there and she taught me how to pronounce it - whether I can remember it or not is a different matter but ... :lol:

Well it tells you on the board doesn't it :lol:

Paul Sidorczuk

June 2nd, 2011, 09:37 AM

The bus station gets wrecked sometimes and all the glass was taken down from the back of the shelters because vandals were unscrewing the glass and leaving it leaning into the waiting area. Just because there have been problems in some areas though doesn't mean this goes on forever, they grow up, move away, do different things. probably have lots of children....

...who will continue the same never-ending cycle. And so, it goes on and on and on...:ohno:

How long ago did Wythenshawe Park receive its latest visit from the M22 version of Atilla the Hun et al? How many birds were beheaded, how many panes of glass in the greenhouses were smashed? As long as this type of mentality exists, what hope is there?

Will the costings for the extension to the airport include an insurance policy against acts of deliberate damage to infrastructure? In the late 1950's and early 1960's, on Langley Estate, the milk floats had reinforced galvanised mesh bolted over the open areas. Tell me if times have changed?

VoldemortBlack

June 2nd, 2011, 09:48 AM

Well it tells you on the board doesn't it :lol:

No but like, with a Welsh accent and everything.

Like the English translation on the train station sign gives you the ametuerish "syllable-per-syllable" translation, she gave me the one with loads of flem and all this. Really weird town name, I might add ...

WatcherZero

June 2nd, 2011, 10:13 AM

My dads welsh but mines next to non existant, all I remember is
Ll is C
F is V
Ff is F

Bont=Bridge, then all the stuff you see on road signs....

Futurelink

June 2nd, 2011, 10:44 AM

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch

... now that's something I'd like to see Metrolink stick on the front of a tram! :lol:

VoldemortBlack

June 2nd, 2011, 11:20 AM

:lol:

"This is a Bury service, the next stop will be Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch"

ScouseinManc

June 2nd, 2011, 11:26 AM

My dads welsh but mines next to non existant, all I remember is
Ll is C
F is V
Ff is F

Bont=Bridge, then all the stuff you see on road signs....

You mean like:

Ysgol - School.
Araf - Slow.
Heddlu - Police.

Here's one you may not have heard before & I'm yet to see a sign on the road:

Microwave - popty ping (I kid you not...)

Paul Sidorczuk

June 2nd, 2011, 11:27 AM

My dads welsh but mines next to non existant, all I remember is
Ll is C
F is V
Ff is F

Bont=Bridge, then all the stuff you see on road signs....

Two of the most important words in the Welsh language to remember are MERCHEDD (not sure if it has one D or two at the end) and DYNION ,if you absolutely NEED to go.......:)

Paul Sidorczuk

June 2nd, 2011, 11:29 AM

:lol:

"This is a Bury service, the next stop will be Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch"

Is this a plea for longer Metrolink platforms?

ExManc

June 2nd, 2011, 12:14 PM

:lol:

"This is a Bury service, the next stop will be Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch"

As long as they don't do this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7702913.stm

madferret

June 2nd, 2011, 12:18 PM

Not like in the old days

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad200/Vernon151/WithingtonStationSign.jpg
Fantastic! I bet someone complained that there were no direct trains to Bristol, though.. :)

LNGCats

June 2nd, 2011, 12:29 PM

TfGM are crap at complying to FOI requests.

I have just left a VM for For information concerning the scheme you can contact the following:

Information Manager
Transport for Greater Manchester
2 Piccadilly Place
Manchester
M1 3BG
craig.berry@tfgm.com
Tel - 0161 244 1147

to call me back or respond to my email with an acknowledgement of the receipt of my FOI request.

Seems not only do they not reply to emails they don't answer phones either.

What are the chances he will repsond to my phone call?

I feel a complaint to the onbudsman on the horizon at this point.

VoldemortBlack

June 2nd, 2011, 12:35 PM

As long as they don't do this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7702913.stm

That's awful :lol:

Motortownman

June 2nd, 2011, 01:35 PM

Is this a plea for longer Metrolink platforms?

It would fit onto the frieze at Cormbrook.:lol::lol: well maybe once anyway

LNGCats

June 2nd, 2011, 01:35 PM

I have a response, thoughts? Worth pursuing? Have Thales really not got a date for the Alty and Bury lines?

Mr xyz
xyz@gmail.com

SENT BY E-MAIL ONLY Our ref: 8*9821
Your ref:

27th May 2011

Dear Mr Xyz,

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION UNDER THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT 2000

Information Requested: I am interested in what the date is that the consortia that is delivering the new tram operating system for Metrolink is / was contracted to have had the new system signed off into service by TfGM.

I am specifically interested in the individual dates the system was due to be signed off for...
MediaCity spur
Depot
Chorlton line
Altrincham line
Bury line

I refer to your e-mailed request for information detailed above and can confirm that TfGM is willing to supply you with the information you have requested and shall address each one in turn below:
I am interested in what the date is that the consortia that is delivering the new tram operating system for Metrolink is / was contracted to have had the new system signed off into service by TfGM.

Below are the dates we currently have for sign off:
MediaCity spur – currently operating
New Depot – Spring 2011
Chorlton line – Spring 2011
Altrincham line – currently operating in existing mode, phased conversion to TMS subsequent to new line openings.
Bury line – currently operating in existing mode, phased conversion to TMS subsequent to new line openings.

If you are not satisfied with the response in this letter you may ask for an internal review. If you would like an internal review you should contact me in the first instance. My e-mail address is at the end of this letter.

If you remain dissatisfied after an internal review has been undertaken, you have a right to apply to the Information Commissioner for a decision. The Information Commissioner can be contacted at:

Office of the Information Commissioner
Wycliffe House
Water Lane
Wilmslow
Cheshire
SK9 5AF

www.informationcommissioner.gov.uk

Please remember to quote the above reference number above in any future communications.

Yours sincerely,

Danielle Carr
Paralegal
Direct line: 0161 244 1617
Email: danielle.carr@tfgm.com

WatcherZero

June 2nd, 2011, 01:39 PM

Request clarification that the date on the physical contracts is really a season and not specific day/month.
Request to know if the season is defined as between certain months within the contract.

LNGCats

June 2nd, 2011, 01:44 PM

Anyone with any further suggestions before I reply?

loweskid

June 2nd, 2011, 01:48 PM

deleted

LNGCats

June 2nd, 2011, 01:54 PM

I've replied asking Watchers question as well as if there really is nothing date wise relating to the Alty / Bury lines.

martin2345uk

June 2nd, 2011, 02:00 PM

Does that mean they now have another 40 days or however long it was..?

LNGCats

June 2nd, 2011, 02:32 PM

Those on the Mancmetrolink mailing list will have seen that Danielle asked me to go straight to her.

Have asked her to clarify the date issue and whether Alty / Bury really has no dates in the contract. She has forwarded this to some bloke called Peter Cushing who deals with Metrolink. I doubt it will take 40 days and suspect it's burst into action today after I made my call that went to vm.

As an aside, couple of high-vis jackets working on the electrics at the Chorlton / Alty junction as I just passed through.

martin2345uk

June 2nd, 2011, 02:40 PM

Peter Cushing! Love it.

What is that mailing list you mention...? How do people get on it? :)

apologiesforthedelay

June 2nd, 2011, 02:44 PM

As an aside, couple of high-vis jackets working on the electrics at the Chorlton / Alty junction as I just passed through.

There was a few Thales vans knocking around yesterday and early this morning.

I guess if they are closing the Eccles and Alti lines on the 11th & 12th June, then that could be when they finally make the connections to and from Chorlton permanant.

They will obviously have to do it on the Smedley Viaduct junction at some point too.

ashley b

June 2nd, 2011, 03:04 PM

What is that mailing list you mention...? How do people get on it? :)

It's a Yahoo Group you can subscribe to at http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/mancmetrolink/

LNGCats

June 2nd, 2011, 03:05 PM

for those wishing to join the (very quiet) mailing list, I think if you email mancmetrolink@yahoogroups.com you get a response back saying you are not allowed to post to the group. I think that email explains how to join.

Once I get the notification I'll add you to the list. I had to turn it members only as lots of spam was being sent to it a couple of years ago.

LNGCats

June 2nd, 2011, 03:08 PM

P.S. Those wishing to join need to put in any text explaining why.
Just submit the request with your email address and I'll approve.

martin2345uk

June 2nd, 2011, 05:57 PM

Chorlton finally gets street-level recognisability!

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/Chorlton_signs/IMG_1233.jpg

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/Chorlton_signs/IMG_1232.jpg

Will it also get the square golden arches too??

billiam

June 2nd, 2011, 06:36 PM

I just spotted a not hi viz jacket for the first time at the airport (I work in business park there). They've reduce the lanes running towards the traffic island to a single lane as they clear an entrance into the carpark behind the Hilton hotel. I wasn't expecting to see anything going on there god a few months so it was a surprise to see work starting!

r02bapurdie

June 2nd, 2011, 06:45 PM

On Saturday 11 June and Sunday 12 June There will be no trams running on the Altrincham and Eccles lines. Trams will run from Bury to Piccadilly only. There will be no through services to Altrincham.

Replacement Buses

Altrincham replacement bus services will run Altrincham to Piccadilly, calling at all stops to Piccadilly Station except Mosley Street.

Eccles replacement buses will run Eccles to Piccadilly, calling at all stops to Piccadilly Station except Pomona and Mosley Street.

The nearest bus stop for Mosley Street is Piccadilly Gardens (on Portland Street, opposite the Ibis hotel).

The nearest bus stop for Pomona is Exchange Quay.

Passengers wishing to change between Altrincham and Eccles bus services should change at Trafford Bar. (Both bus services will stop here).

Journey Times

As replacement bus services are in operation, please allow more time for your journey.

Altrincham to Piccadilly - 62 mins approx.
Eccles to Piccadilly - 47 minutes approx.

The last replacement bus times are the same as the usual last tram times - information is up at all stops.

The last tram times from Piccadilly to Bury are as follows;

Saturday 0047
Sunday 2234

Please allow enough time to make your connection.

Normal tram services will resume from the start of service on Monday morning, 13 June 2011.

Please buy your ticket from a Metrolink ticket machine before boarding the bus.

Metrolink apologises for any inconvenience

conn1231

June 2nd, 2011, 06:53 PM

Presumably that's for the Chorlton Line and Gmex track work?

I guess that the first replacement bus is the same time as the first tram?

iheartthenew

June 2nd, 2011, 07:06 PM

Like the photos Martin, nice weather over Chorlton today ;)

martin2345uk

June 2nd, 2011, 07:23 PM

Like the photos Martin, nice weather over Chorlton today ;)

Yep gorgeous!
No actual action on the line that I could see today, I'm hoping there will be some testing soon, as they almost did some last Friday but something seemed to go wrong and they called it off...

Joydivison82

June 2nd, 2011, 07:44 PM

apologiesforthedelay

June 2nd, 2011, 07:57 PM

Presumably that's for the Chorlton Line and Gmex track work?

I guess that the first replacement bus is the same time as the first tram?

Surely the G-Mex trackwork will take longer than 2 days?

Joydivison82

June 2nd, 2011, 08:06 PM

I had a good look at that track today and it looks extremely worn. I am surprised there has been no accidents even at low speeds. Did they not replace that back in 2009?

Chorlton Bloke

June 2nd, 2011, 08:07 PM

Yep gorgeous!
No actual action on the line that I could see today, I'm hoping there will be some testing soon, as they almost did some last Friday but something seemed to go wrong and they called it off...

Up at Morrisons early afternoon today and there were blokes finishing off the signs, grouting the posts in and that sort of thing.
There were also a couple, man and woman, in hi vis jackets with either radios or phones (not close enough to see clearly) almost looking as if they were waiting for a tram!
I hung around for ten minutes but nothing happened.

Joydivison82

June 2nd, 2011, 08:12 PM

I am going away for a couple of days (maybe just the one) if I don't see a tram when I get back then well its already gone passed that deadline.

I am giving up on it now, that way something might happen.

martin2345uk

June 2nd, 2011, 08:24 PM

Martin, how do you know they nearly started the testing?

I had a look at Chorlton about 40 minutes ago, no signs of any action or anything.

As I type this though in my Chorlton bedroom I can hear trams going past (the Altrincham line). I can always hear them if the wind is blowing in the right direction.

Well, I don't *know*, but I'm almost certain because of the following signs I saw on that day :)

They removed the metal fencing across the track either side of the level crossing near Werby's (only seen them do that when trams are imminent)
The little hut guarding the crossing was manned (again only happens when trams are due to cross the crossing)
One of the MPT said to someone on his mobile "testing trams innit"
The "STOP" signs which block the tracks between Kings Road and Ayres Road had been removed, they are *always* there at other times

However my belief that something went wrong, aside from the fact that I was around the area most of the day and saw nothing, was when I walked back across the Werby's crossing the guy manning the hut was also on his phone, with another MPT guy with him, so I discreetly (or not at all) stopped on the crossing to listen, and he said something along the lines of "How much longer? I've been here for ages..." then said (possibly to his workmate) "Looks like a no-go mate"...

Make of that what you will...!

Joydivison82

June 2nd, 2011, 08:29 PM

No clearly it it was a tram or maybe it could have been another vehicle? I've seen other vehicles on rails down there, e.g access ladders.

martin2345uk

June 2nd, 2011, 08:30 PM

Yep could easily have been that too, though the guy definitely said "testing trams", plus the trams at OT depot were all powered up (which in itself means nothing as they are often all powered up these days!)

Chorlton Bloke

June 2nd, 2011, 08:38 PM

No clearly it it was a tram or maybe it could have been another vehicle? I've seen other vehicles on rails down there, e.g access ladders.

Other vehicles tend to clear their own way though.

Joydivison82

June 2nd, 2011, 09:28 PM

Does sound like it was for trams. Very off topic but I wonder if anybody here is capable of producing a Metrolink tram set for Open TTD? I've looked into it but my C++ skills are not good enough.

mackenziesoley

June 2nd, 2011, 09:32 PM

Indeed, it will operate just like Navigation Road does currently, which is also single track with a heavy rail line beside it (though Navigation Road also has a Network Rail Station opposite too).

I love your user picture, looks ace. I may have to steal the idea tho!

Don't you just love the "Etc" on the end?

You took the words right out of my mouth!

Joydivison82

June 2nd, 2011, 09:36 PM

The next tram calling at Platform 1 is the three months late 06:22 service to Manchester Picciddily, calling at Firswood, Trafford Bar, Cornbrook, Manchester Central, St Peters Square, Picciddily Gardens and Picciddily. Please change at Cornbrook if you wish to get mugged.

Sorry :p

Just a little excited because I am going on a train tomorrow :D. A proper one which leaves Manchester too.

martin2345uk

June 2nd, 2011, 09:46 PM

I love the way you spell Piccadilly Ian! Made me smile! ;-) are you going anywhere with a tram network by any chance? :-)

Joydivison82

June 2nd, 2011, 09:56 PM

Rural North Wales, well Anglesey to be exact. Going to see my cousins who moved down there a few years back. They all think I am mad as I have a nearly brand new car outside but for me I have a choice:-

Spend £30 in petrol and swear like mad at bad drivers on the A55.
Or get a tram, two trains and a bus for £35.

Getting the train :). Actually been dropped off at the tram station, so my journey will involve car > tram > train > train > bus :p.

So the only place with trams where I am going to is Manchester. I miss my trips to Europe because of that, but because I now have a car I cannot afford expensive trips abroad.

conn1231

June 2nd, 2011, 11:18 PM

Surely the G-Mex trackwork will take longer than 2 days?

Guess it depends how many men they put on it, it is only plain line so it should be do-able. If of course that's what it's for, it could be TOS

conn1231

June 2nd, 2011, 11:19 PM

The Lovely metrolink site tells me that Public consultation on the 2CC starts tomorrow, here http://www.tfgm.com/corporate/have_your_say.cfm?submenuheader=2

martin2345uk

June 2nd, 2011, 11:20 PM

Guess it depends how many men they put on it, it is only plain line so it should be do-able. If of course that's what it's for, it could be TOS

Whatever it is I hope it's obvious, I remember after the last blockade no one could say what they had actually done! :bash:

Joydivison82

June 3rd, 2011, 12:04 AM

I think they just decided to switch it off for the weekend just to save on the electricity bill :D

milliputian

June 3rd, 2011, 12:55 AM

Spring : Apr, May, June
Summer : July, Aug, Sept
Autumn : Oct, Nov, Dec
Winter : Jan, Feb, March

for anyone who was thinking about it

jrb

June 3rd, 2011, 08:39 AM

Here you go chaps. Don't know if it's been posted yet.

Reference:

096175/MO/2011/S2

Alternative Reference:

PP-01252269

Application Received:

03 May 2011

Address:

Cutting Of The Former Midland Railway Line Between Kingsway And Parrs Wood Lane East Didsbury

Proposal:

RESERVED MATTERS APPLICATION for the appearance, landscaping and scale of the site, including ramps for East Didsbury Metrolink stop approved under ref 091677/OO/2009/S2
Status:
Application Pending Consideration

Proposed plans.: http://www.publicaccess.manchester.gov.uk/associateddocs/MCCList1.aspx?096175/MO/2011/S2

East Didsbury Stop, Didsbury Line, Metrolink Future Network: Design and Access Statement, East Didsbury Stop. http://www.publicaccess.manchester.gov.uk/associateddocs/selecteddoc.aspx?096175-dsx-0001.pdf

Freel07

June 3rd, 2011, 08:55 AM

I've replied asking Watchers question as well as if there really is nothing date wise relating to the Alty / Bury lines.

I imagine the conversions of existing lines beyond the connections to South Manchester and Oldham are low on the list of priorities just now. The main focus is surely on getting the first stages of the new lines open.

These jobs always overrun. The Phase 1 lines were supposed to open in October 1991 if I remember rightly but it was April 1992 before Bury to Victoria opened with the final section to Piccadilly not opening till July 1992. As someone has pointed out Croydon Tramlink went well over time as did Midland Metro. Quoting proposed dates is pointless as it just raises expectations but contracts need dates and these obviously become public knowledge one way or another.

Paul Sidorczuk

June 3rd, 2011, 09:23 AM

Motortownman

June 3rd, 2011, 09:59 AM

I am still "finding my feet" on this forum, having only just joined it. I was recommended to use this site, as it was said to be the best forum in which to monitor the progress of the new extensions to the Manchester Metrolink system.

Am I right in thinking the PROVISIONAL dates for line openings to be as follows:-

Rochdale line.............................Spring 2012

South Manchester Line................Summer 2013

I am NOT wanting in any way to be critical of TfGM, as like the previous poster, I too remember the delays to the opening on the Bury line.

Yes those dates are right Paul. Again whether it happens though is a different question. I was sure that the original line was delayed, over and over for various reasons but then began to think I had imagined it.
I'm happy to wait till everything works before opening as 9 months later the mediacity line is still not operating as was planned and I'm sure although very excited about it, that some posters on here would be disappointed if the same were to happen again and to a bigger audience too!

As for critisicing TfGM, that's ok if you think something is wrong. Sometimes if they communicated better then they may not get so much flak for example , an apology to Eccles line passengers for the disruption they have been put through in poster form at the stops and some positive dialogue into what the problems are and what they are doing about it may help. After all, if someone apologises then what can the other party say?

I wasn't aware that Croydon opened late, but it works well and has attracted millions of new passengers, so hopefully we will be doing the same in the next year.

Freel07

June 3rd, 2011, 11:13 AM

Yes those dates are right Paul. Again whether it happens though is a different question. I was sure that the original line was delayed, over and over for various reasons but then began to think I had imagined it.
I'm happy to wait till everything works before opening as 9 months later the mediacity line is still not operating as was planned and I'm sure although very excited about it, that some posters on here would be disappointed if the same were to happen again and to a bigger audience too!

As for critisicing TfGM, that's ok if you think something is wrong. Sometimes if they communicated better then they may not get so much flak for example , an apology to Eccles line passengers for the disruption they have been put through in poster form at the stops and some positive dialogue into what the problems are and what they are doing about it may help. After all, if someone apologises then what can the other party say?

I wasn't aware that Croydon opened late, but it works well and has attracted millions of new passengers, so hopefully we will be doing the same in the next year.

Couldn't have put it better myself Motor. I'm not into all this FOI stuff, I don't really what purpose it serves in a situation like this.

Just to qualify South Manchester in this context, I take we are meaning East Didsbury.

WingTips

June 3rd, 2011, 01:39 PM

I have banged on about communication (or lack of) from Metrolink..and yes I always say get your issues across to Metrolink email/letter asap, I have now started calling the customer help line from the platform if there appears to be a delay etc and asking them to make an announcement at the stops informing CUSTOMERS of the delay,and the anticipated time of the next tram, in all fairness they have done this on several occassions...

360xup

June 3rd, 2011, 03:07 PM

I think most peoples issue with the south manc line is that it has been sat redundant since Jan / Feb, with the actual construction works appearing to be pretty much 100% completed. Its fast becoming a standing joking amongst my friends, “Chorltons Ornamental Tram Line”.
That said, working in the construction industry myself, deadlines often slip for a combination of reasons, for which there is rarely a single cause. The freedom of information thing strikes me as a bit of a waste of time, they aren’t going to say anymore than they have already, probably because with major civil projects like this it would be foolhardy to hang a specific date on opening with the press until all elements of the construction / testing phase are completed.

That said, a heads up when something is likely to happen wouldn’t go amiss, to ease the worries of locals!

metman123

June 3rd, 2011, 03:17 PM

testing and driver training due to start next week Old Trafford depot! so i'm lead to believe!

martin2345uk

June 3rd, 2011, 03:22 PM

Great news if true metman!!!

future.architect

June 3rd, 2011, 04:00 PM

“Chorltons Ornamental Tram Line”.

Made me smile

testing and driver training due to start next week Old Trafford depot! so i'm lead to believe!

Better late than never :):):)

Chorlton Bloke

June 3rd, 2011, 04:46 PM

testing and driver training due to start next week Old Trafford depot! so i'm lead to believe!

OOH, just noticed, the semi-permanent wooden hoarding at the bridge in Chorlton have gone and been replaced with metal mesh!

I've come over all unnecessary!

martin2345uk

June 3rd, 2011, 04:53 PM

Indeed, and a Metrolink flag sign has gone up on St werburghs road too :)

martin2345uk

June 3rd, 2011, 06:20 PM

Well here's the latest (minor!) developments as previously mentioned:

St Werby's flag sign and lift signage now up:

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/Signage%2003062011/IMG_1238.jpg

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/Signage%2003062011/IMG_1235.jpg

And as Chorlton Bloke said, the entrances at Chorlton station are a lot more open. Pretty clear we won't be getting the yellow arches on these wideboys...

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/Signage%2003062011/IMG_1237.jpg

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/Signage%2003062011/IMG_1236.jpg

Motortownman

June 3rd, 2011, 06:32 PM

vvv

martin2345uk

June 3rd, 2011, 06:33 PM

Fix it in terms of what matey?

Motortownman

June 3rd, 2011, 06:33 PM

[QUOTE=martin2345uk;78969050]Well here's the latest (minor!) developments as previously mentioned:

St Werby's flag sign and life signage now up:

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/Signage%2003062011/IMG_1238.jpg

Don't forget to let us know when they fix that yellow arch Martin! Let's hope they do!

Motortownman

June 3rd, 2011, 06:35 PM

Fix it in terms of what matey?

The tatty way the top bit has been planted on out of line by the look of it.

martin2345uk

June 3rd, 2011, 06:49 PM

Ah ok. To be honest I'm not expecting them to do anything about that! But will keep an eye on it :-)

Lol I wrote "life signage" in your quote above, I meant lift signage! :)

I wonder if there will be some testing action tomorrrow, the metal fencing across my local level crossing has again been replaced with the easier to move plastic stuff...

Chorlton Bloke

June 3rd, 2011, 07:45 PM

WingTips

June 3rd, 2011, 08:03 PM

Johnny de Rivative

June 3rd, 2011, 11:23 PM

Ooooo loving all those diamond logo flags - what a reassuring thing to come across on a gloomy winter's night! They look brilliant in the sunshine as well - I hope they put them on all the stops before too long. It certainly makes you feel something is imminent. :banana:

Not so much progress in the East this week, but the blasting out of the rails has reached Holt Town :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2386.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2385.jpg

Under the bridge the paved track changes to segregated alignment, as the footpath goes under the other arch :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2384.jpg

Like the team, Man City tramstop is slowly, imperceptibly getting there :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2362.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2369.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2358.jpg

The segregated alignment changes back to paving, approaching the camera at the top of the hill :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2360.jpg

They could have done with this for the Take Thatties this week, clogging up the East side! Good luck to 'em!

:banana:

High-Fi

June 4th, 2011, 01:19 AM

Thanks for keeping us all updated with pictures everybody. Much appreciated.

JDR, I spy the CO-OP headquarters sneaking into that last shot, it's going to have all the "biggies" in view from that viewpoint in the future.
Did you enjoy the gig? C'mon, don't deny that you were there!:)

LNGCats

June 4th, 2011, 12:16 PM

Those on the mailing list will now know I've just seen 3031 pulling into St Weburghs with loads of staff on.

I cannot upload the picies from my phone from here but those who got the email feel free to do so.

martin2345uk

June 4th, 2011, 12:48 PM

Yayyyyy it's my 29th birthday today and TfGM have clearly decided I deserve a nice present!!! Like the aforementioned tram!

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/IMG_1245.jpg

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/IMG_1243.jpg

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/IMG_1242.jpg

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/IMG_1240.jpg

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/IMG_1239.jpg

A man was talking to one of the workers (was it one of you guys???) and the worker said they hoped to open in about a month as they are a bit behind, and today they are testing the turnback points south of Werbys :-)
:banana::banana::banana::banana:

Futurelink

June 4th, 2011, 01:36 PM

YES! Some great pictures as usual, it's so nice to see another banana down there at last.

Happy 29th, Martin! :)

tucbiscuit

June 4th, 2011, 01:40 PM

nice! well done to the people who predicted it

martin2345uk

June 4th, 2011, 01:46 PM

nice! well done to the people who predicted it

It's conclusive, the plastic barriers at the crossing are the best sign of imminent tram action! :)

r02bapurdie

June 4th, 2011, 02:09 PM

Futurelink

June 4th, 2011, 02:16 PM

Hi

Well done taking them photo Martin cheer and Happy Birthday, less we can start seeing trams running down that line. Also well done taking the picture of east Manchester johnny thanks. I notice on other forums someone was saying that in rail magazine it was saying that line to Chorlton and Central Park it could open in July, just like you was saying Martin.

That is definitely looking likely now. I'm glad they aren't rushing to meet the deadline like they did with MediaCity - and we all know what happened then.

Motortownman

June 4th, 2011, 02:18 PM

It's conclusive, the plastic barriers at the crossing are the best sign of imminent tram action! :)

Happy Birthday. See what we arranged for you. Told you to wait, now the kettle has boiled!

Well we didn't arrange it, but when you are sitting in your bathchair at the top of the steps at St Werburgh's Road when you are 90 years old watching the first of the 5th generation of trams arriving, you'll look back with your new rose tinted spectacles and think, "eeeee when I was a lad I remember this opening. Those were the days you know."

martin2345uk

June 4th, 2011, 02:22 PM

Lol thanks matey! Was pretty awesome, just went for my daily walk down the path to Werbys, noticed the station shelter looked a bit strange then realised it was a tram! If I'd seen LNG's post I'd have been down there even sooner!! :-D

WingTips

June 4th, 2011, 02:30 PM

Happy Birthday Martin...hope you have a good day..:cheers::cheers:

WingTips

June 4th, 2011, 02:35 PM

With this huge expansion of the network..and have to say the pics from Martin of the stop and new tram in position look superb,Greater Manchester Metrolink must the envy of ever city and major town (incl London) in the country.

ashley b

June 4th, 2011, 03:07 PM

Hurrah! Think I might have a wonder down Chorlton way today myself, great to see some progress at last.

Oh, and Happy Birthday Martin!

LNGCats

June 4th, 2011, 03:13 PM

Just passed depot outbound.

Tram entering depot direct from Chorlton line - very slowly.

Could not make out the tram number so don't know if it was 3031 or not.

martin2345uk

June 4th, 2011, 03:23 PM

I imagine it was, as testing seems to have finished for the day, the metal fencing has gone back up over the crossing.

Ash, maybe not that much to see in Chorlton the rest of today! Thanks btw :)

One for luck:

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/IMG_1246.jpg:banana:

EDIT: I've just noticed the worker seems to be taking a photo of me taking a photo of them! haha :)

bertyboy

June 4th, 2011, 03:34 PM

Are the trams delivered without vinyls?

martin2345uk

June 4th, 2011, 03:36 PM

If that's the yellow dots on the sides etc. then yes they are delivered without them :)

Futurelink

June 4th, 2011, 03:58 PM

If that's the yellow dots on the sides etc. then yes they are delivered without them :)

Although, I have seen a few arrive halfway through the dotting process... maybe Bombardier and Metrolink both have some and Bombardier often run short :lol:

LNGCats

June 4th, 2011, 05:15 PM

The pictures I took at 11am today...
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5243/20110604095756.jpg
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/2236/20110604095804.jpg
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/711/20110604095822b.jpg
http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/901/20110604095832.jpg
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/755/20110604100544.jpg
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/832/20110604100552.jpg
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/8572/20110604100824.jpg

martin2345uk

June 4th, 2011, 06:01 PM

Nice photos LNG, if I'd been around a bit earlier I'd have seen you!

The testing didn't go on as long as I thought it would - hopefully the points worked as they hoped!!! I really do hope that we see a lot more of this type of thing over the next few days.

Surely this means we should also see some more action towards Central Park?? Anyone live near there? :-D I would have thought that if that's the destination from Werby's that they would be testing that too! Keep an eye out for station signage there too!

LNGCats

June 4th, 2011, 06:18 PM

Quite a decent interesting walk today.

Went from my place near Dane Rd, to Sale Water Park, across to Mauldeth Rd to where the line currently ends and then along the cycle path to St Werbys and then follow the track all the way to OT.

About 2hrs end but very plesant in the sun with the added bonus of seeing 3031 being out. Even the Mrs didn't moan too much about being dragged along :)

mackenziesoley

June 4th, 2011, 06:21 PM

Yayyyyy it's my 29th birthday today and TfGM have clearly decided I deserve a nice present!!! Like the aforementioned tram!

A man was talking to one of the workers (was it one of you guys???) and the worker said they hoped to open in about a month as they are a bit behind, and today they are testing the turnback points south of Werbys :-)
:banana::banana::banana::banana:

Happy birthday. I'm hoping for my 29th next month we get this extension open with!

martin2345uk

June 4th, 2011, 06:23 PM

That would be an even better present! Depending what date your birthday is I would say it's highly possible now that testing *seems* to have started!

mackenziesoley

June 4th, 2011, 06:25 PM

That would be an even better present! Depending what date your birthday is I would say it's highly possible now that testing *seems* to have started!

My birthday is the 20th July, same as my guess for the line opening and along with Metrolink's 19th birthday. Parallels here with the delayed phase 1 opening?

Futurelink

June 4th, 2011, 07:37 PM

Not really sure what the hell is going on here.

Been sat at HC for forty minutes, no Eccles trams.

WingTips

June 4th, 2011, 07:42 PM

Not really sure what the hell is going on here.

Been sat at HC for forty minutes, no Eccles trams.

0161 205 2000 now and ask for an announcement to be made :bash:

Joydivison82

June 4th, 2011, 07:58 PM

andymark

June 4th, 2011, 08:57 PM

I spoke to one of the drivers today and he also said that driver training is due to be starting next week sometime on the South Manchester line.

And I saw 2001 out and about again today - twice in two days now!

Futurelink

June 4th, 2011, 09:13 PM

0161 205 2000 now and ask for an announcement to be made :bash:

I tried. Five times. But there was no answer.

A tram eventually came after around fifty minutes, loaded with people, including dozens of screaming children. Hooray!

VoldemortBlack

June 4th, 2011, 09:21 PM

martin2345uk

June 4th, 2011, 09:24 PM

I was thinking by the time I am 29 the Chorlton line will be open and running, then I realised, I am 28 not 25 like I keep thinking I am :( It means I will be 29 before the line is open :(.

I got a tram about an hour ago from Picciddily and everything seems to be running normal there.

Great to see the trams, I had a feeling it might happen yesterday. I've just been camping for the night in Anglesey and it seems to have done the trick.

When are you 29 Ian? You never know..! And yes as you suspected your break away seems have done the trick, maybe you could pop over to Wales every weekend for a while, they might complete the testing pretty quickly that way :-)

That said, working in the construction industry myself, deadlines often slip for a combination of reasons, for which there is rarely a single cause. The freedom of information thing strikes me as a bit of a waste of time, they aren’t going to say anymore than they have already, probably because with major civil projects like this it would be foolhardy to hang a specific date on opening with the press until all elements of the construction / testing phase are completed.

That said, a heads up when something is likely to happen wouldn’t go amiss, to ease the worries of locals!

So when do we think they will change the official opening date from "Spring 2011" to (hopefully) Summer 2011..?

LNGCats

June 4th, 2011, 09:26 PM

VoldemortBlack

June 4th, 2011, 09:37 PM

No, but the underground is certainly an example to follow. Even Merseyrail, which is a network roughly the same size once Metrolink has been expanded, has a better announcement system than we do. Just a little announcement every half hour or so wouldn't hurt and certainly wouldn't cost much.

Freel07

June 4th, 2011, 09:52 PM

Do we know what the state of the comms system is at the moment? I thought that it was all being replaced with TOS.

The underground announcements are all managed from within the station you are in.

I wish we'd stop comparing Metrolink (or the buses or trains) to London's transport system - the differences in how they are operated, funded and governed is huge. Making comparisons between the tube - which has dozens of staff on each station with Metrolink is not exactly sensible is it?

The TMS (TOS) is the control system rather than the Comms. PIDs will be part of TMS but I don't think it will help PA. Until someone takes more interest in forcing Control to make announcements about disruptions it will get no better.

You're right about the futility of comparing Manchester with London. The resources available down there are amazing compared with what we get. Having said that Manchester has done a lot better than others thanks to TfGM's hard work.

Freel07

June 4th, 2011, 09:54 PM

Great photos over the last few days especially down at St Werburghs today. I'm not sure which is most momentous, test running on South Manchester or the return of 2001 after 5 years.

martin2345uk

June 4th, 2011, 09:55 PM

Has it really been 5 years?? What exactly happened to it 5 years ago?

andymark

June 4th, 2011, 09:55 PM

I agree. You are not comparing like with like. I think everyone - probably including people at Metrolink - would agree that there is room for improvement when there are disruptions, but I tend to think it is generally a very good service. I use it semi-regularly and find the level of service excellent - when it goes wrong, clearly there are things that could be done better, but please remember that we are fortunate to have such a system on our doorstep.

I'm still able to remember a 30 minute service on the Bury line in days of BR and it is easy to forget these things when we are spoilt with trams every six minutes.

mackenziesoley

June 4th, 2011, 09:57 PM

mackenziesoley

June 4th, 2011, 09:58 PM

I have to admit announcements on Metrolink are virtually non-existent. On the London Underground there's an announcement every half hour or so which gives you an update on all lines; "There is a good service operating on all London Underground and London Overground lines".

They should definitely do an announcement every half hour or so on the Metrolink, it would be really useful, rather than them leaving their "beloved" passengers stranded on platforms.

Big problem is they now announce a service update every 5mins so with all the other announcements it's wall to wall announcements so everyone switches off and ignores them. The rise of the mp3 player has seen this happen even more.

WatcherZero

June 4th, 2011, 09:59 PM

The TMS (TOS) is the control system rather than the Comms. PIDs will be part of TMS but I don't think it will help PA. Until someone takes more interest in forcing Control to make announcements about disruptions it will get no better.

You're right about the futility of comparing Manchester with London. The resources available down there are amazing compared with what we get. Having said that Manchester has done a lot better than others thanks to TfGM's hard work.

As it was explained by someone involved some time ago, at the moment they can give an announcement to one station or a dozen stations but it shares the same bandwidth, the more stations that share the announcement the lower the sound quality of the message. Part of the new TOS system is laying a fibre optic cables along the lines which provides the transmission network for CCTV, Ticketing Machines, platform telephones, in cab communications, Signals and passenger announcements. They will also lease the excess bandwidth/lay more capacity to local internet providers who will provide ultrafast broadband and bring in some extra revenue.

Freel07

June 4th, 2011, 09:59 PM

Has it really been 5 years?? What exactly happened to it 5 years ago?

It started suffering emergency brake applications or ATS stops as though it had been driven past a red signal at places where there were no signals. If I remember rightly it was after it had been through a bogie change. The 6 T68As were all a bit susceptible to ATS problems right from the start. All attempts to correct the problem on 2001 failed and it gradually lost bits to keep the other 5 running.

WingTips

June 4th, 2011, 10:05 PM

I have to admit announcements on Metrolink are virtually non-existent. On the London Underground there's an announcement every half hour or so which gives you an update on all lines; "There is a good service operating on all London Underground and London Overground lines".

They should definitely do an announcement every half hour or so on the Metrolink, it would be really useful, rather than them leaving their "beloved" passengers stranded on platforms.

As many of you will know I have an issue with Metrolink and their lack of communication in general, research tells us that CUSTOMERS like to be kept informed however Metrolink fail appalling on this, on board tram announcements appear to be at the whim of the driver, platfrom PA`s are often incomprehensible due to the type of tannoy system. Mr Purdy you must be well aware of these issues, a massive review of your communications in all areas is required...over to you Mr Purdy.

LNGCats

June 4th, 2011, 10:13 PM

WatcherZero

June 4th, 2011, 10:31 PM

The name of the company is 'Stagecoach Metrolink'.

LNGCats

June 4th, 2011, 10:36 PM

Yes, but those people who work for 'Stagecoach Metrolink' have TfGM as their customer and NOT us. Their performance is measured against certain measurements that are specified in the contract they have.

The priorities of the management at Queens Rd will be a very long way from what people on here talk about.

WingTips

June 4th, 2011, 10:37 PM

The name of the company is 'Stagecoach Metrolink'.

Fair point, however when I travel as a CUSTOMER on a tram, as far as I am concerned I am a CUSTOMER of Metrolink, I am not interested in the technicalities of the organisation, how they sort it out between them is not my concern, the point I am trying to make is that Metrolink (whom we as CUSTOMERS pay our fare to) have to sort out this mess of communication.

LNGCats

June 4th, 2011, 10:43 PM

Maybe, but understanding how the companies interact and who is who's customer helps explain why things are as they are and why they may well not change.

Stagecoach has a long contract (25years?) - if that contract is being satisfied from a communication point of view - then that is it, what we have today is almost certainly what we have going forward.

Cherguevara

June 4th, 2011, 10:44 PM

The obvious course of action would be to push the case through TfGM who are a publically accountable body and specifically your local delegates to the TfGM committee (GMITA/PTA as was) whose job it is to represent the publics' interest to the TfGM executive and by extension Metrolink. It may not make a difference to this contract, but it might to the next.

Freel07

June 4th, 2011, 10:46 PM

When people say 'Metrolink' probably know there is a problem lets not forget that there is no one in the city that works for a company called 'Metrolink'.

We have Stagecoach who have a specific contract for a specific length of time. Their customer is TfGM and NOT you and me. Their contract with their customer will probably be very specific about the level of passenger information they need to provide and how they do so.

From what's said above that contract may have certain dependancies upon the new fibre network being available but make no mistake, if you mean Stagecoach when you say Metrolink - they'll not care one jot whether or not you and I consider there to be enough passenger announcements and neither should they as their customer - TfGM are the ones they need to satisfy.

If you've never worked in an outsourced environment it's sometimes not the most obvious what the priority is for the service provider.

Unfortunately you're right there. The service contract culture is the curse of modern life. It's all about shifting responsibility about so that no-one can be identified as ultimately responsible for anything. Having worked in a service contract I was told in no uncertain terms that the 'Client', and the Shareholders rather than the end users were most important. Just look at what happens if you try to make a complaint about local rail services. Northern blame DfT who blame Northern and both pass you on to Passenger Focus who never reply. ORR aren't interested and blame both Northern and DfT. The poor passenger doesn't count.

Motortownman

June 4th, 2011, 10:47 PM

It started suffering emergency brake applications or ATS stops as though it had been driven past a red signal at places where there were no signals. If I remember rightly it was after it had been through a bogie change. The 6 T68As were all a bit susceptible to ATS problems right from the start. All attempts to correct the problem on 2001 failed and it gradually lost bits to keep the other 5 running.

Oh, I thought it got bashed by a dustbin wagon on Ordsall Lane and they could never get it to work properly after that?

LNGCats

June 4th, 2011, 10:48 PM

Freel07

June 4th, 2011, 11:02 PM

Oh, I thought it got bashed by a dustbin wagon on Ordsall Lane and they could never get it to work properly after that?

It did suffer that RTA with the bin wagon but ran again after repairs. I am pretty certain it was after a bogie change that the problems began.

WingTips

June 4th, 2011, 11:03 PM

Freel07

June 4th, 2011, 11:06 PM

The next contract ain't until 2030 is it?

I bet that the contract had an 'as is' section and a 'to be' section with differing SLAs for Stagecoach dependant upon what TfGM deliver.

When TfGM deliver the ability to provide better communications I'd hope an improved SLA kicks in under the 'to be' part of the contract.

Otherwise forget it. What we have today we have in 20years.

The provision of routine PA announcements on the stops is a problem because with the kit on the Phase 1 and 2 stops they get complaints about noise nuisance if they do them.
As you say if TfGM deliver a better system they should then be able to enforce the contract which does require disruption information to be provided.

bertyboy

June 4th, 2011, 11:18 PM

So when do we think they will change the official opening date from "Spring 2011" to (hopefully) Summer 2011..?

I expect TfGM have just extended the official end of spring to July.

martin2345uk

June 4th, 2011, 11:25 PM

Haha I can just see it on their website..."opening Spring 2011 (no, the other Spring)" :-)

LNGCats

June 5th, 2011, 12:01 AM

I suspect Mr Purdy is well aware of the appalling communications problem ( in this instance I am using the word "problem", and not being PC and saying "issue" as this in my opinion as "problem") if they are to operate a system worthy of a world class city such as Manchster this probelm MUST be adddressed ASAP.

Lets get one thing straight.

Mr Purdy is responsible primarily for delivering a profit to Stagecoach.

He may well be well aware of a whole host of appalling problems with Metrolink (I bet there is loads of serious issues that are invisible to us all) however, his job responsibility is essentially to deliver against the TfGM contract at minimal cost and to deliver as high a profit as possible for Stagecoach - that really is what his job boils down to.

Now, much as it may be very important to you and others that the communications are cr@p on Metrolink until it starts to affect any bonus credits or penalties it really will not become very important to those in Stagecoach towers.

Think back to the Serco days - which essentially operated under the same outsourced model - they let the track get in such a state that there was a serious de-railment in St Peters Sq.

Why did they let it get like that? Because there was no incentive for them to do anything about the worn out track.

Now if an outsourced company is willing to let the track fall apart to that extent because there is no incentive for them to monitor and repair the track on an ongoing basis why would a different supplier act in a different way.

I'll say it again, much as you dislike to hear it, you really are NOT a customer of Stagecoach, TfGM are the customer of Stagecoah and TfGM have almost certainly got specific SLAs for communications - that is how Purdy will be judged - not on whether or not you or I am happy with the communications.

Put is like this, if it is going to cost Stagecoach £20k / year to fix the problem (maybe putting a new member of staff on to deal with this issue) what possible returns would Stagecoach get for that £20k / year investment? The answer is of course none (unless the contract has penalties in that they are currently paying - which is unlikely).

The 'to-be' situation may be better. When the new technologies are rolled out it may improve, but only if Stagecoach are contracted to improve it.

WatcherZero

June 5th, 2011, 12:58 AM

Quite often however investment in infrastructure or tools will lower ongoing maintence or running costs meaning there is a profit incentive even without specific contract requirements.

Could we say that Stagecoach Supertram their wholly owned Sheffield concern has clearer cost/benefit incentives then yes, does that automatically mean that the customer is put before profit? no.

There was no integration between bus fares and tram fares until Stagecoach bought the local bus franchise in 2005, 10 years after they bought the tram concession.

LNGCats

June 5th, 2011, 01:07 AM

There will be an ability to review parts of the contract as time goes on during such a very long and expensive contract.

I'd be stunned if if TfGM are going to put all this new fibre etc in to provide the capability to communicate to passengers much better than they do today and they don't have something contractual meaning Stagecoach will improve as and when the technology allows.

However, that may well be quite some time away and surely won't be anywhere near the top of anyone's to do list.

bertyboy

June 5th, 2011, 01:41 AM

Joydivison82

June 5th, 2011, 01:48 AM

I think the main issue is that those that work in communications may not be metrolink or public transport users. I am a car driver, and pay £300 a month for that luxury. However I am also a very frequent user of all public transport.

I get the impression sometimes that those that work in communications live in Bury and drive to work. I may be completely wrong and it is only an opinion but it is the impression they give us when they don't inform us.

What is so hard about a driver telling us that the tram is a couple of minutes late?

Also as a manc why do I find the on-board built announcements annoying? The accent is too manc and I worry that outsiders may not understand everything the Metrolink's digital Doris says.

Again just in my opinion of course.

bertyboy

June 5th, 2011, 01:51 AM

Lets get one thing straight.

Mr Purdy is responsible primarily for delivering a profit to Stagecoach.

He may well be well aware of a whole host of appalling problems with Metrolink (I bet there is loads of serious issues that are invisible to us all) however, his job responsibility is essentially to deliver against the TfGM contract at minimal cost and to deliver as high a profit as possible for Stagecoach - that really is what his job boils down to.

Now, much as it may be very important to you and others that the communications are cr@p on Metrolink until it starts to affect any bonus credits or penalties it really will not become very important to those in Stagecoach towers.

Think back to the Serco days - which essentially operated under the same outsourced model - they let the track get in such a state that there was a serious de-railment in St Peters Sq.

Why did they let it get like that? Because there was no incentive for them to do anything about the worn out track.

Now if an outsourced company is willing to let the track fall apart to that extent because there is no incentive for them to monitor and repair the track on an ongoing basis why would a different supplier act in a different way.

I'll say it again, much as you dislike to hear it, you really are NOT a customer of Stagecoach, TfGM are the customer of Stagecoah and TfGM have almost certainly got specific SLAs for communications - that is how Purdy will be judged - not on whether or not you or I am happy with the communications.

Put is like this, if it is going to cost Stagecoach £20k / year to fix the problem (maybe putting a new member of staff on to deal with this issue) what possible returns would Stagecoach get for that £20k / year investment? The answer is of course none (unless the contract has penalties in that they are currently paying - which is unlikely).

The 'to-be' situation may be better. When the new technologies are rolled out it may improve, but only if Stagecoach are contracted to improve it.

You seem to assume that customer-passenger satisfaction is unrelated to the profitability of a transport company. If they didn't give a shit about that, there's a whole load of things they could get rid of that would save a lot more that £20k a year. Why bother with shelters? They don't generate money. What about seats? They could carry more passengers without, and the running costs would be lower with lighter trams. Why have a website? Expensive to run. And those little buttons on platforms - someone has to man the other end of those.

future.architect

June 5th, 2011, 03:22 AM

Great photos today guys,

Glad to see that this is transitioning from the construction phase to the all important testing phase. Hopefully with no epic Thales being thrown up :)

LNGCats

June 5th, 2011, 10:22 AM

So, who are the passengers customers of?

TfGM - they are the people who essentially take our money and provide the service for us.

Essentially they outsourced the provision of that service to Stagecoach.

When a bank outsources it's phone calling centre to an Indian company in Mumbai you remain a customer of the bank and not the Indian company despite you having to interact with the Indian company. Should you have a problem with the call centre it matters not a jot to you who the indian call centre company is. Likewise to the Indian call centre their customer os the bank and not the person phoning them up.

Likewise to us we are TfGMs customer and not Stagecoaches customer.

LNGCats

June 5th, 2011, 10:42 AM

You seem to assume that customer-passenger satisfaction is unrelated to the profitability of a transport company.

I am not saying that they (Stagecoach) don't give a shit - they do. They will be ensuring that they get no penalties from TfGM for failing to comply to any SLAs that they have relating to communications.

If they didn't give a shit about that, there's a whole load of things they could get rid of that would save a lot more that £20k a year. Why bother with shelters?

Correct me if I am wrong, but Stagecoach do not provide shelters.

They don't generate money. What about seats? They could carry more passengers without, and the running costs would be lower with lighter trams. Why have a website? Expensive to run. And those little buttons on platforms - someone has to man the other end of those.

All this infrastructure is provided by TfGM (or other outsourced companies) and NOT Stagecoach. Stagecoach operate what is given to them in a manner that complies to the contract that they have. As TfGMs customer they are the ones that provide yuo with your shelters, seats etc - but again - all through a host of different outsourced suppliers,

Stagecoach are probably contrcated to maintain them by their customer (TfGM) though, they will have an SLA for the maintenance of this infrastructure.

You clearly have not worked for an outsourced company.

Stagecoach will have a shed load of SLAs (Service Level Agreements) relating to a huge long list of things.

This will no doubt be things like service reliability, customer satisfaction*, track maintenance, web site maintenance, customer communications, etc etc. In the SLA each and every item will have a very specific measure to state what they must do to achieve the SLA. Miss the SLA and get hit by a penalty. Sometimes if they over shoot the SLA they may get a reward.

If an outsourced company is meeting it's SLA as Stagecoach probably are with regards the communications part of the contract then they have ZERO incentive to do any more, in fact the whole idea of outsourcing is to comply to the letter of the contract with minimal cost. So, if you were to run the Stagecoach operation through a 'lean' process and you were to find that you are employing someone 4hrs a week to provide communications to customers that are above and beyond the contractual SLA then any sensible service provider would stop spending that 4hrs providing an unnecessary service.

There are sometimes a slight exception to this. Sometimes it is cheaper to take the penalty from the missing of the SLA than it is to fix the problem. It may be for example they are being penalised by say £10k / year for not meeting the communications SLA but it would cost £50k / year to fix it. Again, under such circumstances any sensible outsourced provider would tak the penalty hit.

* - customer satisfaction is an interesting one in outsourced deals. I am aware of some contracts that may state that 90% of customers that the outsourced provider touches must rate the service as 'good' (or whatever). However, the outsourced company has the ability to manipulate the figures. Say for example Stagecoach had such an SLA (I have no idea whatsoever if they do - I siply use this as an example we all understand) that said 90% of passengers must be overall 'satisfied' with the service. Now, say the figures were only 80%. Sometimes I have heard of some contracts that allow the outsourced company to discount unsatisfied customers is those unsatisfied customers are not happy with a part of the service that the provider is actualy complying to SLA over. So, in the example above, if 5% of passengers stated that they were dissatisfied with the service because the trams are not regular enough on the Eccles line, and if Stagecoach had met the SLA for reliability on the Eccles line (the SLA dictated by TfGM) then those 5% of respondents could be ignored. Likewise, if they are measured against customer satisfaction, if they are meeting their SLA on communications (and we have no reason to believe that they are not) then it is highly probable that any dissatisfaction linked back to this in any customer satisfaction survey would simply be discounted in any penalty clauses that Stagecoach may have.

Still, after having said all that, as I said last night, I cannot believe TfGM would be putting all this infrastructure out there to provide a better communications system and then not have contractual SLAs for Stagecoach to use it when available. I reckon that the 'to-be' SLA will be much higher than what we have today.

Anyway, next time you jump on the tram, remember that you are not (directly at least) the customer of the ticket inspector no matter how much it would appear so at first glance.

Oh, finally. When you ask the inspector who their customer is they will of course say you and I - the TfGM contract with Stagecoach will have something in it about 'acting as one' - but that really is just for public relations - email the top bods at TfGM and Stagecoach on this issue and then you get a much different answer.

martin2345uk

June 5th, 2011, 11:15 AM

Great photos today guys,

Glad to see that this is transitioning from the construction phase to the all important testing phase. Hopefully with no epic Thales being thrown up :)

What's an epic Thales Future..?

soupçon

June 5th, 2011, 12:27 PM

Put is like this, if it is going to cost Stagecoach £20k / year to fix the problem (maybe putting a new member of staff on to deal with this issue) what possible returns would Stagecoach get for that £20k / year investment? The answer is of course none (unless the contract has penalties in that they are currently paying - which is unlikely).

Passengers have a choice how to travel in regional cities. If you have been let down by the Metrolink service (which seems to be a weekly occurrence) and have waited at the stop for ages with no tram turning up, and no idea when one will actually get there, maybe next time you will take the bus or car. Each journey lost to another form of transport costs Stagecoach money doesn't it? Or do TfGM take the hit?

DC overhead

June 5th, 2011, 12:32 PM

So if the Chorlton line opens in July, it's a race between that and the Stratford International extension of the DLR to be the UK's next light rail route!

A great time for light rail in the UK!

Freel07

June 5th, 2011, 12:53 PM

Freel07

June 5th, 2011, 01:04 PM

I am not saying that they (Stagecoach) don't give a shit - they do. They will be ensuring that they get no penalties from TfGM for failing to comply to any SLAs that they have relating to communications.

Stagecoach will have a shed load of SLAs (Service Level Agreements) relating to a huge long list of things.

One point from your earlier post. You give the impression that Phillip Purdy is employed by Stagecoach, he isn't he is the TfGM Metrolink Director and as such is Stagecoach's Client. It is his job to ensure that Stagecoach deliver against their contract and performance monitoring regime.

Taking up the SLAs you talk about, I agree wholeheartedly that Stagecoach will be concentrating on delivering what they are contracted to do at the lowest cost. However I believe that in the area of communications they are failing miserably. The contract will specify how and when PA announcements should be made (and it won't say don't bother unless WingTips rings in :lol::lol:). They consistently fail to make announcements about service disruptions and always have done. For some reason no-one does anything about it. Complaints to TfGM get passed to Stagecoach for reply directly to the complainant rather than TfGM researching what is going on. This way Stagecoach can make any old excuse and not be challenged by their client. Until TfGM actually demand answers themselves no progress will be made.

Futurelink

June 5th, 2011, 01:04 PM

So if the Chorlton line opens in July, it's a race between that and the Stratford International extension of the DLR to be the UK's next light rail route!

A great time for light rail in the UK!

I'm hoping the Stratford extension opens first. Then Chorlton will hold the title of the newest light rail line for much longer :)

martin2345uk

June 5th, 2011, 01:12 PM

I'm hoping the Stratford extension opens first. Then Chorlton will hold the title of the newest light rail line for much longer :)

Is the Stratford line's opening imminent then?

soupçon

June 5th, 2011, 01:26 PM

TfGM take the hit. They take the revenue with the present contract. Stagecoach will incur penalties for not running the contracted service depending on how bad the delays areas LNG says. Stagecoach have a performance monitoring regime with TfGM against which they are measured. This looks at many different aspects of their performance including the communications problems we have been talking about.

Thanks. Do you know what the situation is in Sheffield? South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive (or whatever they're called now) seem amateurish compared to Manchester, yet the Supertram system seems to be much more reliable. I don't have any data to back that up - it's just the impression I get from reading the threads on here.

r02bapurdie

June 5th, 2011, 02:14 PM

Hi

I notice this on the news website

Man hit by Manchester tram is critically injured

A man has been critically injured when he was hit by a tram in Manchester city centre.

The 67-year-old was struck by the tram in Piccadilly Gardens at about 0015 BST on Sunday.

Metrolink services were stopped to allow police officers to carry out investigations at the scene.

A spokeswoman for Greater Manchester Police appealed to any witnesses or anyone with any information to contact the force.

mackenziesoley

June 5th, 2011, 02:28 PM

Is the Stratford line's opening imminent then?

It was originally supposed to open in Summer 2010 as the main works were ahead. They been testing the line with trains since dec but it's yet to open. They even have maps stating opening late 2010 at every station!

martin2345uk

June 5th, 2011, 02:41 PM

Gosh, I guess we should consider ourselves lucky then eh! :)

Joydivison82

June 5th, 2011, 02:48 PM

Not really, the testing process could end up taking months and months here :(

I really hope to see some trams on Monday though.

martin2345uk

June 5th, 2011, 02:55 PM

C'mon Ian a bit of positivity can't hurt!! Lol! Just keep an eye on the metal fence, when it's replaced with orange plastic then expect testing!

Joydivison82

June 5th, 2011, 03:13 PM

The problem is its a good 15 minute walk down there for me, and on a cloudy day like today I can't be bothered. Will use this site to keep updated :).

LNGCats

June 5th, 2011, 03:38 PM

Thanks for that Freel.

I thought Purdy was top dog at Stagecoach. From what you say he is the ultimate customer for Stagecoach and it is he who they must keep happy.

As you say, communications are shockingly bad. Either Stagecoach have very low SLA for the 'as is' setup and it will improve with the 'to be' or the penalty for missing that particular SLA is not worth worrying about from their point of view.

Something else - noticed at MC today the PIDs were accurate as ever. The Picc services were counting down from 22mins - a record for me that. Also, travelled right out to Eccles and back. MC seems to be the busiest stop by some distance on a Sunday lunchtime.

martin2345uk

June 5th, 2011, 03:54 PM

MC seems to be working pretty well at the moment I take it then? That can only be a good sign for progress on the SM line!!

LNGCats

June 5th, 2011, 03:59 PM

MC seems to be working very efficiently this afternoon. The journey both ways seemed to be as smooth and rapid as can be expected.

future.architect

June 5th, 2011, 04:42 PM

What's an epic Thales Future..?

My attempt at making a joke.

'Thales' being the TMS contractor and 'Epic fail being an internet meme. :nuts:

martin2345uk

June 5th, 2011, 04:49 PM

Lol I would have got that if I pronounced Thales as it's spelt! I'm sorry! :-)

Am I right in thinking that on sundays no work is done on the extensions?

WingTips

June 5th, 2011, 04:59 PM

To be fare MC on the whole is now working well, and certainly the number of trams of the ECC line wether they be ECC or MC is excellent, I have never seen as many plying the route.

Futurelink

June 5th, 2011, 06:08 PM

mackenziesoley

June 5th, 2011, 06:24 PM

A new map I've done today with the ghosting of future lines.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5074/5800697120_73e378d685_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mackenzieblu/5800697120/)
Metrolink Network June 2011 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mackenzieblu/5800697120/) by Sparkyscrum (http://www.flickr.com/people/mackenzieblu/), on Flickr

The network come 2016....

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2131/5800143877_84ef6829bd_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mackenzieblu/5800143877/)
Metrolink Network Map 2016 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mackenzieblu/5800143877/) by Sparkyscrum (http://www.flickr.com/people/mackenzieblu/), on Flickr

Although there is a problem with this as The Rochdale - Didsbury Line goes via 1CC when it should be 2CC.

Futurelink

June 5th, 2011, 06:31 PM

On the brighter side of life...

After the shock testing on the South Manchester line yesterday, I decided to take a look down there myself. The Old Trafford depot is starting to look presentable, and it's also becoming yellower by the minute! :D

Not entirely sure how old this is, but it is a great little achievement nonetheless:
http://i51.tinypic.com/302ry49.jpg

There are now five rows of M5000s down there:
http://i54.tinypic.com/fy0ggj.jpg

I was rather hoping not to see 3031 in there, for obvious reasons, but there it was, sound asleep once more:
http://i56.tinypic.com/iql9j6.jpg

...and so, it seemed, was the line itself:
http://i56.tinypic.com/2wf8dvc.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/20t2y2x.jpg

It was seriously eerie down there. Considering it was buzzing with excitement just a couple of hours earlier, it did feel like an abandoned railway line :ohno:
I decided to abandon my journey at this point. With 3031 in the depot, and 'STOP' barriers up just before Trafford Bar, is was quite evident that testing was over for the day.

Still, it's not all bad. The depot is forever growing,:
http://i56.tinypic.com/24vv387.jpg

...and the smell of banana is most definitely in the air!:
http://i54.tinypic.com/2v1q3d1.jpg

:)

martin2345uk

June 5th, 2011, 06:36 PM

I've been wondering what the point of those Stop barriers is. Is it in case a rogue driver fancies a joyride?

loweskid

June 5th, 2011, 06:52 PM

....A man has been critically injured when he was hit by a tram in Manchester city centre.....

I can't see this doing much good for the publicity of new line openings.

From what I've seen of the way some people dawdle across the tracks in Piccadilly, not looking either way, ignoring the hooter (or unable to hear it because of the MP3 players glued in their ears), I'm surprised this sort of thing doesn't happen more often.

Futurelink

June 5th, 2011, 07:35 PM

I've been wondering what the point of those Stop barriers is. Is it in case a rogue driver fancies a joyride?

LOL, quite possibly!

Chorlton Bloke

June 5th, 2011, 07:37 PM

From what I've seen of the way some people dawdle across the tracks in Piccadilly, not looking either way, ignoring the hooter (or unable to hear it because of the MP3 players glued in their ears), I'm surprised this sort of thing doesn't happen more often.

But did anybody notice the time? I thought all the trams were tucked up in their beds at 00.15, or am I wrong again :lol:

mackenziesoley

June 5th, 2011, 07:38 PM

There are now five rows of M5000s down there

Thanks for that picture, looks really good. Hopefully we'll get to play on some of these units before not too long.

Is tram 3031 the newest tram btw?

Futurelink

June 5th, 2011, 07:41 PM

Thanks for that picture, looks really good. Hopefully we'll get to play on some of these units before not too long.

Is tram 3031 the newest tram btw?

Nope, from what I recall the newest unit is 3034.

LNGCats

June 5th, 2011, 07:46 PM

Last tram heading out from town to Alty on Friday and Saturday night is about 12:40am.

The last one won't get back to Queens Rd until nearly 2am.

WingTips

June 5th, 2011, 07:56 PM

Great map Mack...thanks for those...very impressive.

conn1231

June 5th, 2011, 08:09 PM

Are drivers overriding the signal on the Manc approach to Cornbrook on the Altrincham line, every time this week he seems to, Something not working as supposed to?
Also why do the M5000's have to whistle under the M60 at Dane Road but the T's don't?

Motortownman

June 5th, 2011, 08:45 PM

Passengers have a choice how to travel in regional cities. If you have been let down by the Metrolink service (which seems to be a weekly occurrence) and have waited at the stop for ages with no tram turning up, and no idea when one will actually get there, maybe next time you will take the bus orow I have a car. Each journey lost to another form of transport costs Stagecoach money doesn't it? Or do TfGM take the hit?

Yes exactly. TfGM take the hit thankfully.

Now I have a choice to make next week. I need to get to the airport for 1015. It should be easy as pie. Catch the tram from Eccles to Deansgate, over the bridge and onto the train. Possible to do in under an hour.

Should I do this or;

Catch the 33 to Piccadilly in the rush hour. Walk to Piccadilly station and catch the train.

Catch the train to Victoria, transfer to Piccadilly then catch the train

Catch any bus to Shudehill, walk to Piccadilly then catch the train

Take the taxi

Take the car

I would love the first option but am terrified I get stranded and the other options are too much bother, so I take the car. That's a really good advert for Metrolink?

Going to the station in Cologne sunday morning from the hotel doesn't bother me even though it's 2 trams early in the morning, because I know it will work. Now that's what we should be aiming for here.

My confidence is zilch with metrolink as I have been let down sooooo many times. When it's important then you can't rely on it. If you are leisure travelling then it's not so bad. So am also wondering what it's going to take to get my confidence back?

Maybe now it's easier to see where I am coming from regarding reliablility.

WatcherZero

June 5th, 2011, 08:48 PM

Well your alias is 'Motor town man'.....

Freel07

June 5th, 2011, 08:50 PM

Thanks. Do you know what the situation is in Sheffield? South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive (or whatever they're called now) seem amateurish compared to Manchester, yet the Supertram system seems to be much more reliable. I don't have any data to back that up - it's just the impression I get from reading the threads on here.

I believe Stagecoach take the revenue in Sheffield. They actually effectively bought the system, or at least the rights to run it, from SYPTE around 1998 when it was in financial trouble.

The difference between most of the other PTEs and TfGM is that only Manchester has had the benefit of a joint body like AGMA which has co-ordinated the views of all the local authorities and therefore has presented a very strong case to Westminster and also commands a large local budget. SYPTE doesn't have this support. A good example of what can happen without this co-ordinated approach is Merseytram which failed partly because the local authorities couldn't agree on what they wanted. This gave Westminster the opportunity to shelve the project.

Joydivison82

June 5th, 2011, 08:54 PM

I tend to not use the Metrolink for critical journeys either. The 86 bus may be slow and it stressed me out but it is very very reliable.

For anything else I would use the car.

Another bad thing about Manchester transport, I was drinking in Didsbury last night and I was skint, I didn't want to spend £10 on a taxi, I didn't want to buy a day rider and get a bus into town only to get one out, so I decided to walk back to Chorlton. In the end I got a taxi from the parkway to Chorlton office which cost me about £6 but my point is there should have been a bus. I missed the last 23.

Why do all the buses stop running before midnight apart from certain night buses going into the city centre? I am sure the trams will run to 1:00am which is fine.

LNGCats

June 5th, 2011, 08:58 PM

The difference in realiability between Metrolink and Supertram is also (in my opinion) is very much down to how Metrolink (phase 1 at least) was built spending mininal money, essentially the cheapest of everything was bought. If money could be saved - high platforms - it was.

So we ended up with a system very much built on the cheap.

Supertram on the other hand was built from scratch (unlike the converstion of Metrolink) and money whilst not being as available as it would have been in Colgne was certainly much more available than when Metrolink was funded.

The unreliability of Metrolink comes primarily from the cheap trams and the out of date signalling system. Neither of which affect Supertram. Going forward the signalling will be fixed and after the mid-life refurb the trams should be more reliable.

LNGCats

June 5th, 2011, 08:59 PM

The buses run where they can make a profit, pure and simple.

Motortownman

June 5th, 2011, 09:11 PM

Johnny de Rivative

June 5th, 2011, 09:24 PM

Thanks for keeping us all updated with pictures everybody. Much appreciated.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2360.jpg

JDR, I spy the CO-OP headquarters sneaking into that last shot, it's going to have all the "biggies" in view from that viewpoint in the future.

Did you enjoy the gig? C'mon, don't deny that you were there!:)

A Thattie? Moi? (How very dare you!) Sorry, at my age, I find all those new beards a bit too prickly, and I am still getting over their first ever appearance on North West Tonight . . . :smiley:

No, I'm far more interested in how the trambahn in Droylsden is coming along, :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2453.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2456.jpg

And at Clayton Hall, see how they are making a wide graded area that sweeps up seamlessly from pavement level to the high platform :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2458.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2459.jpg

Martin, happy birtday, some people are lucky to live only 15 minutes walk away from the action! As soon as I saw your pictures yesterday dinner-time, I swallowed a quick sandwich, hot-footed it to Ashton Old Road to spend 45 minutes on the 168, then ran like hell down the ginnel at Chorlton, only to see the guy fastening up the gates again after it was all over! Then just missed an 84 so took a 86 and walked up Seymour Grove just in time to see 3031 gliding back into the depot!!! (click on for a few seconds of video but not really worth watching!)

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/th_101_2462.jpg (http://s742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/?action=view&current=101_2462.mp4)

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2463.jpg

AArgh - the same thing happened to me at Central Park a few weeks ago!! :cripes:

Still loving the excitement of all these developments, though.

:banana:

LNGCats

June 5th, 2011, 09:27 PM

Do any UK local rail systems (outside London) run later?

WingTips

June 5th, 2011, 09:30 PM

Nope, from what I recall the newest unit is 3034.

Yes 3034 is the latest one , I saw it on a low loader being delivered last weekend.

martin2345uk

June 5th, 2011, 09:51 PM

Motortownman

June 5th, 2011, 09:53 PM

Do any UK local rail systems (outside London) run later?

All these times are from the city centre outwards;

Newcastle is about 20 mins later from central station, and an hour and 20 mins later on sundays.

Sheffield is about 15 mins later and an hour later on sundays with some short journeys after that.

Midland metro is about the same but with short journeys till after midnight, sundays till 11pm with short journeys till 1145

Nottingham till midnight and sundays till 1104

So we don't fare too well there especially on sundays where we finish earlier than anywhere else. it's sundays that are especially early finishing and for the second city could be improved?

LNGCats

June 5th, 2011, 10:00 PM

Motortownman

June 5th, 2011, 10:18 PM

It'll be down to logistics - location of the depot and costs of running later.

I bet if you were to look at when the last fare paying passenger can board a tram in any of those cities - be it in or out bound - will be very similar.

Either way, whereas we have a better frequency on our lines they may finish later.

The times are generally fine, it's sundays finishing at 1030 which I find not so good. I would be happy with a 15 or 20 minute service on sunday evenings to pay for them running an hour later as long as a timetable was published and put on all the stops!

LNGCats

June 5th, 2011, 10:25 PM

We've had this discussion before.

What would be the point in a timetable when we all agree the system is not reliable enough to be able to hold to one?

Still, TfGM who decide on the service frequency and hours of serice clearly disagree with you on their priorities and quite frankly they have a much better idea about cost implications and when demand is high than any of us.

LNGCats

June 5th, 2011, 10:27 PM

oh and Metrolink does not shut down at 10:30 on a Sunday. Last tram from Alty gets to Victoria at 11:15 tonight - probably very similar to rest of the country.

LNGCats

June 5th, 2011, 10:30 PM

FWIW - looking at Sheffield Supertram times they finish about 30mins later on Sundays.

Ours finish 30mins later Mon-Fri and well over 1hr later Fri&Sat.

But still, why not have a good old moan eh? It's what you're good at.

madferret

June 5th, 2011, 10:32 PM

We've had this discussion before.

What would be the point in a timetable when we all agree the system is not reliable enough to be able to hold to one?
It would if it dropped to the frequency Motortownman is suggesting.

mackenziesoley

June 5th, 2011, 10:33 PM

Martin, happy birtday, some people are lucky to live only 15 minutes walk away from the action! As soon as I saw your pictures yesterday dinner-time, I swallowed a quick sandwich, hot-footed it to Ashton Old Road to spend 45 minutes on the 168, then ran like hell down the ginnel at Chorlton, only to see the guy fastening up the gates again after it was all over! Then just missed an 84 so took a 86 and walked up Seymour Grove just in time to see 3031 gliding back into the depot!!! (click on video but not really worth watching!)

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/101_2463.jpg

I'm about three and a half hours from the line (with good connections)! But as someone that's rarely going to see this unless I'm really lucky I'm greatful for all you guys input into this for me. Especially great shots like these!

Nope, from what I recall the newest unit is 3034.

Yes 3034 is the latest one , I saw it on a low loader being delivered last weekend.

Ah thanks guys. I hadn't seen anything since the pic of 3029 on test. So now its offical, there is more :banana: than T-68's then?

Great map Mack...thanks for those...very impressive.

Thanks. Not happy with the Chorlton Line tho as it does that really sharp curve. Will look at that sometime!

Joydivison82

June 5th, 2011, 10:34 PM

LNGCats

June 5th, 2011, 10:37 PM

Still would not be able to stick to it.

Oh yes, I notice Sheffield trams also start more than 30mins later than ours on a Sunday.

So, we have earlier trams on Sunday and later trams every other day, especially on Fri&Sat but because Metrolink finishes earlier on one day a week we have a good old moan.

Just about right, ignore the 90% of positives and pick on the sole negative.

LNGCats

June 5th, 2011, 10:40 PM

Is it true that they are considering a limited 24 hour service on the Metrolink?

I was in Anglesey on the Friday but if I was at home or in Manchester I would have rushed to the line, but I was in a tent with no internet access 125 miles away.

The airport line will close from 1am until 3pm - that is the line with the longest running hours.

The vehicles, tracks and signalling require out of hours maintenance.

andymark

June 5th, 2011, 10:45 PM

I tend to agree that the times of the last trams are generally very good. Midnight Monday - Thursday, 1.00am Friday and Saturday, and 10.30-11.00pm on Sunday. When I've travelled on it on a Sunday evening its never over busy, so what's the point in running later if you're only carrying fresh air around? An earlier Sunday finish will also give them some extra time for overnight maintenance etc.

If they finished half an hour or an hour later on Sunday there would still be people who complained it wasn't late enough. I remember BR days and there was no Sunday service on the Bury line (don't know about the Altrincham side) - now if that was still the case there would be justification for moaning.

bertyboy

June 5th, 2011, 10:47 PM

Then just missed an 84 so took a 86 and walked up Seymour Grove just in time to see 3031 gliding back into the depot!!! (click on video but not really worth watching!)

LMAO @ the first 2 seconds of your video! Is that a little squeal of joy? :lol:

Joydivison82

June 5th, 2011, 10:56 PM

The airport line will close from 1am until 3pm - that is the line with the longest running hours.

The vehicles, tracks and signalling require out of hours maintenance.

Surely you meant 3am!!?

Not so good then, I was hoping I could use it as a clubbing shuttle to avoid the 86 nightbus or avoid having to get taxis during the week. Mind you clubs I go to tend to shut at 4:00am anyway so won't be a problem :D

I suppose there is the issue of noise too, I wonder if the Residents know about that? I doubt the people of Mauldeth Road would be too happy about on street trams running in the early hours. Personally as its not in my back yard I think it is great.

Although my grandma lives right next to the line :(

Motortownman

June 5th, 2011, 11:02 PM

It's strange how some members (or even banned persons using alias's time and time again to avoid the monitors) seem to get themselves in a lather about something without even reading properly the comments, and even deem it reasonable to change what was said in the first place to prove absolutely nothing. Oh well!

Basically, all I said was I would like them to run say an extra half an hour later on sunday evenings and would be willing to have a lesser frequency sunday evenings to pay for it. I didn't actually say the system shut down at 1030. I'd quite like a last tram from town at about 11pm or just after.

I also know better what I would like then TfGM.

And I do remember that discussion about timetables. If I remember correctly it was you that said that no operator in Europe published timetables. Or was it wirlie G . Maybe you know that person?

LNGCats

June 5th, 2011, 11:14 PM

If you're talking about me, please point me to the banned accounts. I think you may be confused.

FWIW - this Wirlie G character does not seem to be banned if that is who you are talking about - check out his members page. He doesn't seem to have posted for quite some time though.

LNGCats

June 5th, 2011, 11:16 PM

Yes 3am.

It's 5 years away though. You'll be too old to go clubbing by then :)

Joydivison82

June 5th, 2011, 11:31 PM

Motortownman

June 5th, 2011, 11:37 PM

I am a rocker, half the people that go to those clubs are 40+ :p.

One of the clubs I go to as a lot of older people in it :). Of course the clubs I go to a world away from places like 5th Ave. I am far too old for those type of venues now. I do frequent Satan's though which is popular with the kiddies as well as the OAPs.

No doubt in 5 years time even if I am too old to go clubbing I will still go to the pubs in town as my mates live all over the city, but the Metrolink will just make meeting up with them for a drink so much easier :).

Does that mean we will need to put up with the road works for the next five years? I am finding it is already a nightmare to get to Didsbury in rush hour now because of all the tram works.

There's diversions on the 84 for a few weeks but that won't affect you going to Didsbury. It may be that they divert buses along Nell Lane to get to Didsbury and no doubt diversions and big delays while the crossing at Barlow Moor Road/ Hardy Lane is being completed? There's no way round that I don't think. But hopefully not for the next 5 years! Once they get working along Hardy Lane it should ease, maybe a few disruptions while wires go up etc.

Joydivison82

June 5th, 2011, 11:57 PM

I drive, but I am back and forward to Didsbury all the time. At the moment Nell lane is shut and Barlow Road is down to one lane at the Hardy Lane junction so it is a bit of a nightmare.

Johnny de Rivative

June 6th, 2011, 01:53 AM

LMAO @ the first 2 seconds of your video! Is that a little squeal of joy? :lol:

Hi Berty - no, it's only me kackering myself after chasing the sod all the way up the line and finally catching it too late! - (you may notice I go arse over breast at the end as well!!) :cheers::cheers::cheers::drunk:

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/th_101_2462.jpg (http://s742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/?action=view&current=101_2462.mp4)

LNGCats

June 6th, 2011, 10:13 AM

Not going into town until (much) later today.

Any sign of driver testing on the depot or the Chorlton line today people?

This evening, so long as the sun stays out, I will pop along and have a wonder around if no one else goes passed the areas of interest.

Motortownman

June 6th, 2011, 10:26 AM

I drive, but I am back and forward to Didsbury all the time. At the moment Nell lane is shut and Barlow Road is down to one lane at the Hardy Lane junction so it is a bit of a nightmare.

Unlike the New Road for the Ashton line, there isn't anywhere else to send the traffic or buses without missing out all of Chorlton between The Cross and Southern Cemetery. How would you like it to be done Joy? A 2 or 3 week massive diversion and the crossing completed, or it being done in smaller chunks but more traffic delays over a longer period? I'm not sure myself how I would prefer it to be done. It's a no win situation. But it should be worth it in the end.

Have they taken down any of the trees on Mauldeth road yet? I bet some of the people those houses at the side will enjoy having light let into them in summer again!

martin2345uk

June 6th, 2011, 11:06 AM

Have they taken down any of the trees on Mauldeth road yet? I bet some of the people those houses at the side will enjoy having light let into them in summer again!
They've removed a couple where they're doing the diversions, but most remain. They said in their email to me that they were envisaged to be removed in September.

LNGCats

June 6th, 2011, 12:20 PM

Thank you for your enquiry.

The infrastructure on the new Chorlton Metrolink line is nearly complete with ‘snagging’ works currently being carried out.

The next stage is to install and commission the new Tram Management System and then commission and test the operation of the new line. This work is complex and requires integration with the existing network and thorough testing is needed to ensure the safety and reliability of services. The opening date for the South Manchester Line will be dependent on the outcome of the testing of the new tram management system. Once installation and testing is complete, we will carry out a programme of staff and driver training before we open the Chorlton line for passenger service.

Once the opening date is confirmed, we will be communicating this to residents and businesses in the local area. Information will also be available on our website www.tfgm.com. I will add your email address to our Priority Stakeholder database, so you will receive any future notifications in relation to the opening of the line via email. Please let us know if you would like it to be removed.

If you would like any further information, please contact us on 0161 244 1555 or future.metrolink@tfgm.com.

Regards,

Tina Yourelis
Public Liaison Officer, Metrolink Projects
Transport for Greater Manchester
2 Piccadilly Place, Manchester M1 3BG

This is not exactly answering the question is it?

martin2345uk

June 6th, 2011, 12:26 PM

It's not even a personal reply, it looks word for word the exact same email they sent me a couple of weeks ago!

Freel07

June 6th, 2011, 01:19 PM

This is not exactly answering the question is it?

Like I said they don't have a date yet and won't until the results of TMS testing are complete. remember that testing isn't necessarily on site. There will be a phase of factory testing before installation. I don't see how TfGM can be expected to give a date until their contractor gives them a date. What more do you expect? They have undertaken to send information to those on the database.
Perhaps people would like them to committ to opening before everything is properly tested as happened at MediaCityUK so that they can then criticise TfGM for failing to provide a proper service.

ScouseinManc

June 6th, 2011, 01:34 PM

The fact that this woman is referring to the TMS as being the next stage, would infer that they haven't even started yet...?!?!

Guess - another 2 months?

LNGCats

June 6th, 2011, 01:55 PM

Like I said they don't have a date yet and won't until the results of TMS testing are complete. remember that testing isn't necessarily on site. There will be a phase of factory testing before installation. I don't see how TfGM can be expected to give a date until their contractor gives them a date. What more do you expect? They have undertaken to send information to those on the database.
Perhaps people would like them to committ to opening before everything is properly tested as happened at MediaCityUK so that they can then criticise TfGM for failing to provide a proper service.

I expect them to answer the first question.

Is there a date in the Thales contract that specifies when they have to have the TMS signed off for MediaCity, Eccles, Chorlton, Alty and Bury lines.

That was the original question. They are going about the houses telling my that they are not ready to open the line yet. That is NOT what I was asking them.

I do not want them to commit to opening the line, I simply would like to get an idea of how far (if at all) Thales are behind with their work.

I repeat - I do not expect to get an answer as to when the line will open.