These are people that get taxied everywhere, im sure their not used to this "walking" thing :)

Yes, but if a MediaCity tram is due to leave, it will be quicker to go to Cornbrook and change rather than walk 300 yards and then wait for an Eccles service because the connecting services from other lines will arrive at Cornbrook before the next service from Eccles will.

Besides - many of them will probably only want to go to Cornbrook - so that they can change to the Altrincham or Didsbury lines. These lines do after all serve some of the more affluent areas of the city.

Also, the MC service will extend to Piccadilly once the 2CC is built.

I think we need to remember that people living in Eccles use the Broadway stop for the LOM and theatre, and vice versa Broadway is convienient for poeple living on the Quays for shopping in Eccles etc, Eccles trams on the whole will not be pulling into MC, but as we know will operate mainly as a shuttle service to Cornbrook

The majority of apartments/houses on the quays are nowhere near Broadway though, the people who live in NV buildings and City Lofts use their cars anyway! And Harbour City is easily acccessed by walking all of 50 yards and for people on the LOM side, they can use the Huron Basin bridge across to Harbour City and vice versa!

Pointless stop.

Wasn't Broadway built because it was a terminus while they waited to complete the rest of the Eccles line? I guess it's cheaper to keep it (even with limited use) than to demolish it......

^^ I think you're right, makes sense i guess!

Is there any need for the Broadway stop? Especially as it will now be incredibly close to both Harbour City and Media City stops! Plus it's pretty much always empty! What's the point of it?!!

It was built because the tram was orginally going to the lowry so you could get off if you came from Eccles rather than go into the lowry station wait for the tram to turn around and come back out. They could close it to increase the speed a little but it wouldnt make much of a time saving.

The Media city station now has the platform canopy structure built.

having trouble understanding this.So you won't be able to get a tram from say town to Media city or Eccles to media city direct.Will you have to change at cornbrook from town to get to media city and harbour city for media city from Eccles? heck it's confusing

I suppose Broadway Station is no different to Mosley Street. If you want to use it, you will do.

At Vic today they still had the German teams working on the rails inside the station. The tracks on the Approach from the street running section are now all done, looks alot nicer with out those orange and white barriers :) Its been so long Id forgot what It looked like without them!

ShudeHill is ready for the Reinforced concrete to be sorted so the rails should be down by the end of this week.

The difference between the two, is that one is as busy as the busiest stops on the system. Removing Mosley Street stop would be a nightmare and a kick in the teeth for metro users. It would create more problems than fixes.

It was built because the tram was orginally going to the lowry so you could get off if you came from Eccles rather than go into the lowry station wait for the tram to turn around and come back out. They could close it to increase the speed a little but it wouldnt make much of a time saving.

The Media city station now has the platform canopy structure built.

If you have a look at the MC forum I managed to get a few pics of the platform and shelter

Who is losing out Andy? Its two mins walk at the most to Piccadilly Gardens or 5 mins to Market Street? Hardly a marathon! Removing the station would speed up the rest of the trams for everyone using all the all the other stations or crossing the city.

What problems would it create?

Who is losing out Andy? Its two mins walk at the most to Piccadilly Gardens or 5 mins to Market Street? Hardly a marathon! Removing the station would speed up the rest of the trams for everyone using all the all the other stations or crossing the city.

What problems would it create?

There's a tram every 6 min from Mosley St, 12 mins from the other two.

I think the problem pointed out a couple of pages back was with people going to Altrincham would potentially miss their tram, if they waited at Piccadilly Gardens, they could miss a bury-alty direct which they could have got on or if they waited at market street they could miss a piccadilly-alty tram.

Its 6 mins from both Piccadilly Gardens and Market Street. The same trams that go to those stations also go to Mosley street, but anyways. It still seems to be there, so I looks to have a stay of execution for now. No work has been on the station what so ever

Its 6 mins from both Piccadilly Gardens and Market Street. The same trams that go to those stations also go to Mosley street

Wrong! It's 12 minutes.

Who is losing out Andy? Its two mins walk at the most to Piccadilly Gardens or 5 mins to Market Street? Hardly a marathon! Removing the station would speed up the rest of the trams for everyone using all the all the other stations or crossing the city.

What problems would it create?


I can see his point. If you're going to Alty, you don't really care which direction the tram has come from, you just want to get the first one to Alty. In many ways an interchange station like Mosley St is much better than the others close by that only serve one line.

Who is losing out Andy? Its two mins walk at the most to Piccadilly Gardens or 5 mins to Market Street? Hardly a marathon! Removing the station would speed up the rest of the trams for everyone using all the all the other stations or crossing the city.

What problems would it create?

As has already been explained the extra wait. Why remove a stop to inconvenience commuters and increase the wait on the other two stations to 12 minutes each? I can't even see where that logic would come from.

I think the point trying to be made is that Market St DOES offer a tram every six minutes towards Altrincham, however, one involves a cross-platform change at Piccadilly Gardens, subject to punctual, advertised running.

Mosley St was more justified when High St and Market St were two separate stops, and thus a further distance away.

I think the point trying to be made is that Market St DOES offer a tram every six minutes towards Altrincham, however, one involves a cross-platform change at Piccadilly Gardens, subject to punctual, advertised running.

Mosley St was more justified when High St and Market St were two separate stops, and thus a further distance away.

Your welcome to try that but from my experience in that area I'd recommend to everyone just walk to Mosley Street. I've saved my self alot of time over the years.

It's also ideal to run to Mosley St if you miss the tram at picc gardens! Fun I tell thee!

Point taken Andy. Thanks for backing me up link_road_17/7 though.

As I said, nothing has yet been said as to the future of the stop, though if they chose to run the 3000 series trams in doubles its going to be a long drop down, with no retractable steps.

Just have to wait and see.

Point taken Andy. Thanks for backing me up link_road_17/7 though.

As I said, nothing has yet been said as to the future of the stop, though if they chose to run the 3000 series trams in doubles its going to be a long drop down, with no retractable steps.

Just have to wait and see.

Good point that, is not being rebuilt to full height like the other stops? You'd think it would be, if its being kept.

Well if it is being rebuilt they could do with making a start on it pretty soon. 4 weeks left before the line is meant to be re-opening!

Point taken Andy. Thanks for backing me up link_road_17/7 though.

As I said, nothing has yet been said as to the future of the stop, though if they chose to run the 3000 series trams in doubles its going to be a long drop down, with no retractable steps.

Just have to wait and see.

They might run the 1xxx and 2xxx ones as doubles and have the 3xxx as singles? I also suspect that the 3xxx will be on the Eccles / Media city line and the 2xxx ones will move to Altrincham/ Bury to try and get the mileage up on them as they can't have done anything near the 1xxx ones.

Personally, I'd get rid of Mosley street station. It's hideous. I understand the arguments for keeping it, but seriously, this increasingly obese nation needs some exercise - walk to St Peter's Square FFS! It's hardly far away. :nuts:

Has anybody got any new photos of the progress at the new Metrolink depot?
Also does anybody have any inside information concerning test running on city centre track? Presumably GMPTE will now be insisting on a 3-4 days of test running on the city centre track. Will they run trams through the city centre, but make people get on/off at Victoria and St Peters Sq?

didn't think Mosley St could cope with the new trams run in multiple (no retractable steps). Thought the plan was to demolish it and provide real time information telling passegers whether to head to Market St or Picc Gardens for next tram.

Well if it is being rebuilt they could do with making a start on it pretty soon. 4 weeks left before the line is meant to be re-opening!

So I take it they haven't touched it.

I think it is also due to crowd control, you need lots of stations in a very busier area like Manc city centre. You only need to see St Peters square to see this, they need full time staff just to manage the crowds even at quiet times.

It does seem a bit daft though especialy as a large part of town is not covered by the metrolink, e.g Chorlton on Medlock to St Peters Square.

Also this is probably not news but I was told today that picciddily line won't open in November as there is too much work to do, most the efforts now seem on making sure the Victoria to St Peters square line opens on time without hicups. Given that Mosley St is not that far from Picc Station this makes a lot of sense.

didn't think Mosley St could cope with the new trams run in multiple (no retractable steps). Thought the plan was to demolish it and provide real time information telling passegers whether to head to Market St or Picc Gardens for next tram.

That is a very sensible idea, so it probably won't be done ;)

Mosley Street will most likely see the return of the blocks that were in use at St Peters Sq prior to the platform levelling, which will provide the step required to enter/exit rear units of doubles.
Longer term it’s looking as though the whole stop will be done away with, to be honest it’s probably not a very high priority in the list of things to do at the moment. It’s a stop that can easily be cleaned and tidied up for the re-opening and once everything is up and running ok it can then be taken away if that is indeed the final decision.

too much work to do getting the piccadilly bit ready??? what's the problem? it's looks well on course and the new track is down leading up from Aytoun to Piccadilly gardens and the new track is in place on each side of the platform. The platform is coming together well.
It looks like it's the finishes being done now around the delta junction and the bends at Market street to be put down.Seeing the guys going the track work it's all happening quite quickly to me. The pour for the base for north bound track at Shudehill stop looks ready to go down. now in August while work was going on by GMEX I was wondering the same thing that it looked like they were well behind but it all came together for the date they gave for opening that section.

I was only relying what I was told when I asked a driver if he thought the city centre thing would open on time.

The other thing is once these new lines open getting rid of Mosley Street is a no go for safety and capacity issues. If the platforms are packed out now, just think what it would be like with 3 extra lines and one less station for everyone to wait on.

too much work to do getting the piccadilly bit ready??? what's the problem? it's looks well on course and the new track is down leading up from Aytoun to Piccadilly gardens and the new track is in place on each side of the platform. The platform is coming together well.
It looks like it's the finishes being done now around the delta junction and the bends at Market street to be put down.Seeing the guys going the track work it's all happening quite quickly to me. The pour for the base for north bound track at Shudehill stop looks ready to go down. now in August while work was going on by GMEX I was wondering the same thing that it looked like they were well behind but it all came together for the date they gave for opening that section.

D'accord. The delta junction will have to be completed no matter what. As you say, there is little other work (relatively) to be done between there and Aytoun street... IMO the whole city centre track network will open together.

The other thing is once these new lines open getting rid of Mosley Street is a no go for safety and capacity issues. If the platforms are packed out now, just think what it would be like with 3 extra lines and one less station for everyone to wait on.

I understand what you are saying, but additional routes will add very little to overcrowding, because increased frequency will counteract any such effects.

I understand what you are saying, but additional routes will add very little to overcrowding, because increased frequency will counteract any such effects.

I understand the management side but if they plan to remove Mosley Street, then send passengers to either Market Street or Piccadilly Gardens(increasing the amount of times people are on platforms), then add 3 more lines its going to cause more problems than its worth and just because it doesn't look good. Can anyone give me a better reason than that? Wouldn't it just be better to rise the platform height, job done?

I understand the management side but if they plan to remove Mosley Street, then send passengers to either Market Street or Piccadilly Gardens(increasing the amount of times people are on platforms), then add 3 more lines its going to cause more problems than its worth and just because it doesn't look good. Can anyone give me a better reason than that? Wouldn't it just be better to rise the platform height, job done?

I agree that the removal of Mosley street station would create some extra demand at Picc Gardens and SPS (which I reckon the newly enlarged platforms could cope with, in the medium term at least), but the introduction of 3 more lines will have little effect - there may well be twice or even thrice as many people turning up at each station per unit time, but equally, there will be twice or thrice as many trams arriving at each station per unit time.

Not sure about the logic here - wait time is only reduced for short journeys, that finish before the split points (ie. people going to stops before Trafford Bar/Harbour City). However for longer journeys (all the way to Altrincham) the wait time is the same. If you think about them as seperate lines, then you are having several lines worth of traffic on the same platform space. i.e. people currently wait on average 3mins for Alty, 6mins for Eccles, you will be adding to that people waiting 3mins for Chorlton, 6mins for Airport and 6mins for MediaCity (not sure about timings/which routes are going to take 2CC/which routes are going through Picc Gardens). The reduction in wait time you talk of only applies to the people who are going the short distances (whose wait reduces from 2mins to probably less than a minute on average), who, since their wait time is already only 2mins on average, probably constitute only a very small fraction of the people who you see standing on the platform at any one time, i.e. the reduction in crowding is only small.

Removing Mosley Street doubly exacerbates the problem, as not only would there be less platform space on which to wait, but trams going in the right direction are less frequent (ie every 12min instead of every 6min to Altrincham - 1 and a half times as many people on 2/3 the number of platforms = 2 and a quarter times as crowded, (ignoring the extra lines and assuming equal numbers on all trams)).

oh the plot thickens. Well the fullness of time will answer our questions to the on going mini drama know as Mosley street stop.

oh the plot thickens. Well the fullness of time will answer our questions to the on going mini drama know as Mosley street stop.

Titter!

what happened to the 3 sets of ponits that were to be built in the city centre? Can't see any signs of them, so presume this means more disruption as they can't just be built overnight, consideing it has taken them 5 weeks to build one set at Primark and they were working at it a lot of the time.

there may well be twice or even thrice as many people turning up at each station per unit time, but equally, there will be twice or thrice as many trams arriving at each station per unit time.

Until something goes wrong...

This Mosley Street talk has changed my opinion. The stop should be kept.

Is there not a worry that with the introduction of new lines and more regular users heading to the cornbrook interchange that they will all catch on to this and all start heading for Mosley Street?

It would be detrimental to the service if this cunning use of stops is removed but how will it cope?

2CC is to be the last line to be built, yes? Does that mean that for a time, when all other lines are complete, all city centre trams could run through Mosley Street?

Until something goes wrong...

This Mosley Street talk has changed my opinion. The stop should be kept.

Is there not a worry that with the introduction of new lines and more regular users heading to the cornbrook interchange that they will all catch on to this and all start heading for Mosley Street?

It would be detrimental to the service if this cunning use of stops is removed but how will it cope?

2CC is to be the last line to be built, yes? Does that mean that for a time, when all other lines are complete, all city centre trams could run through Mosley Street?

I don't think that the airport line will be operational until 2CC is opened...

back onto the work in hand.Mosley street in the direction of Piccadilly gardens is getting the tarmac laid between the tracks. The finishing off is going on around the delta junction.The block work is being laid on the High street section leading up to the corner of Debenhams.
As I mentioned yesterday it all looks to be happening and going to plan to the un trained eye.
Someone mentioned about nothing happening on the stop the is the hot topic of conversation but also work has yet to start on the High street stop. Think it's like someone mentioned it will just be a case of tart them up and that would only take a week or two.
Strange to see when something is not being used. There is a lot of weed crowth in the cracks of the block work on the platform at Market street.

End of the line for loop
Reporter: by RICHARD HOOTON
Date online: 01/10/2009

WHEN passengers step off the last train from Manchester late on Saturday night it will signal the end of more than 140 years of railway services on the line.

Oldham’s loopline, which has ferried countless passengers to Manchester and Rochdale since the 19th century, is to make way for tram tracks.

The journey to bring Metrolink to Oldham has been a long and tortuous saga which has seen the project cancelled and restarted many times because of funding problems.

And though the money is now in place, the scheme is still not without controversy as the conversion work will take more than two years and see commuters having to rely on express buses instead.

The first line into Oldham was a branch from Middleton to Werneth in 1842, and the Werneth to Mumps line followed five years later. The line was continued to Royton and Rochdale in 1863, but Hollinwood was not connected to Mumps and Manchester until 1880.

There are some unusual aspects to the 12-mile long line, which has nine regular stations on route, with services operated by Northern Rail.

Commemorate

There are two tunnels on route between Oldham Werneth and Oldham Mumps and the stretch of line near Werneth, with its gradient of 1 in 27, contributes to the Oldham loop being the steepest regular passenger line on the country.

Other pieces of railway history will disappear along with the track, such as the late Victorian Shaw signal box in Beal Lane that will make way for a new access to the new Shaw and Crompton Metrolink stop.

A host of events are taking place on Saturday to commemorate the closure with large crowds of enthusiasts expected.

But while it’s a sad day for railway buffs they also accept improvements are badly needed — though aspects of the closure still rankle.

Richard Greenwood, chairman of campaign group STORM (Support the Oldham, Rochdale, Manchester Rail lines) said: “It will be a sad occasion. There will be a lot of people there. I remember the last train to Bury before Metrolink, which was only closed for three months, and that had a carnival atmosphere as it was to reopen again so soon.”

It’s sparked nostalgic memories of when the railways ruled, the highlight being the Wakes Weeks when extra trains arrived to ferry huge crowds excitedly gathered on the platform to their holidays.

There were near disasters as well though, such as in February,1959, when an empty diesel went through the buffer in Royton and demolished a row of houses, the driver just getting out in time.

Mr Greenwood said: “It was in 1956 when diesels came on that the service got better. Royton closed after the Beeching cuts in the 1960s but the service in Oldham improved over the years and from the 1990s on we got fast trains to Manchester and more stops during the day.

“It’s been a pretty good service and pressure from Storm also saw the Sunday service return, which was a success.

“But the end was more or less inevitable when Oldham Council built the by-pass and cut the railway station off from the town centre. That act divided Oldham town centre from the railway and the only way to get to it was to go through the most appalling subway.

“It was inevitable it would go downhill from there. The numbers using the station at Oldham compared to similar stations like Bolton are incredibly low. It became an unfortunate anachronism, while Oldham Council devoted all its efforts to road transport.

“Metrolink should offer the solution when it comes through the town centre. Unfortunately the way it’s been done does not meet anyone’s approval, except the Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive (GMPTE).

“It had the opportunity to close the line in stages and keep trains running in Shaw, New Hey, Milnrow, Rochdale and Manchester as long as possible, lessening the impact on users.

“But GMPTE decided to shut it completely for what’s the most ludicrous length of time and it’s compounded by the fact that the alternatives are so poor.”

Trams are expected to begin running to Oldham Mumps in autumn 2011, and Rochdale in spring 2012.

Saturday’s events include Northern Rail commemorating the closure by naming one of its Class 156 trains “Gracie Fields” after the much-loved Rochdale-born singer and actress.

A naming ceremony at Manchester Victoria at 4pm will see Oldham’s Mayor, Councillor Jim McArdle, along with the mayors of Rochdale and Manchester, and Gracie’s nephew Dougie Wakefield, unveil the nameplate.

Transformation

The train will then make an inaugural journey as the 4.38pm departure to Shaw and Crompton. “Gracie Fields” will also operate the last scheduled passenger train, departing at 11.28pm from Victoria.

On arrival at Rochdale, the train will make an additional journey to Manchester via Castleton for the benefit of people wishing to travel on the last train.

After the commemorative event, the train will carry passengers on routes across the North-West.

A Northern Rail spokeswoman said: “Rather than being the end of the line for this busy commuter route, it is the beginning of its transformation into a new Metrolink line.”



From:
http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/8/news-headlines/30625/end-of-the-line-for-loop



“It had the opportunity to close the line in stages and keep trains running in Shaw, New Hey, Milnrow, Rochdale and Manchester as long as possible, lessening the impact on users.


Couldn't agree more with this! But no good moaning, it is happing that's what matters:banana:

We had GMPTE bods down at Victoria today handing out flyers and what not for the Oldham line closure, though I'm sure on Monday I'm still gonna have alot of passengers coming to me asking where the trains are !

Plenty of people already on the loop I'm told working on various things, fencing up of the stations for one thing, still a few days left yet mind you.

Oh by the way has Banana 4 aka 3004 arrived yet?

We had GMPTE bods down at Victoria today handing out flyers and what not for the Oldham line closure, though I'm sure on Monday I'm still gonna have alot of passengers coming to me asking where the trains are !

Plenty of people already on the loop I'm told working on various things, fencing up of the stations for one thing, still a few days left yet mind you.

Oh by the way has Banana 4 aka 3004 arrived yet?

sure someone in an earlier posting mentioned 3004 was coming on the 4th. So it could be this weekend.Haven't the others been coming on a Saturday?

Noticed lots of Metrolink bashing in the not so supportive MEN yesterday. The usual frustration and anger by it's readership. Not a popular thing when the trams break down and anything problematic with the system always makes good copy it would appear.
The comments page from the many features on Metrolink in the MEN most people seem to have a love hate relationship for it. It does fall foul to the fact if a tram breaks down it snarls up a lot of the system and nothing can divert round a broken unit.
Someone was saying unlike a train which can be pushed or towed by another the trams can't due to something to do with the traction unit. So this sort of story will be loved by those mourning the loss of the Oldham loop to the future Metrolink.
I'm sure there are plenty of guys on here who will jump to the systems defence and be able to give stats and lots of pros to the many cons that public have about Metrolink and the way it's heading. Another point from the same story was that someone was saying the new trams have less seats and would not be able to hold as many seated people like the trains did on the Oldham Loop and their has been nothing come back from Metrolink regarding that of cyclist that have used the Oldham line when commuting in with their bikes and the storage of them.Apparanty only folding bikes can be carried and inclosed in some form of cover.
So looks like even when all the work is done and the shiny new trams are tootling up and down the MEN and it's readership will I'm sure have lots of axes to grind.

sure someone in an earlier posting mentioned 3004 was coming on the 4th. So it could be this weekend.Haven't the others been coming on a Saturday?

I saw :banana::banana::banana: on a truck on Saturday 12th September, turning from Regent Rd into Water Street, about 11am. I remember 'cos it was my mates' Wedding Day. So it's safe to assume :banana::banana::banana::banana: arrives either tomorrow or next Saturday by the same route.
(edited, mixed my dates)

Noticed lots of Metrolink bashing in the not so supportive MEN yesterday. The usual frustration and anger by it's readership. Not a popular thing when the trams break down and anything problematic with the system always makes good copy it would appear.
The comments page from the many features on Metrolink in the MEN most people seem to have a love hate relationship for it. It does fall foul to the fact if a tram breaks down it snarls up a lot of the system and nothing can divert round a broken unit.
Someone was saying unlike a train which can be pushed or towed by another the trams can't due to something to do with the traction unit. So this sort of story will be loved by those mourning the loss of the Oldham loop to the future Metrolink.
I'm sure there are plenty of guys on here who will jump to the systems defence and be able to give stats and lots of pros to the many cons that public have about Metrolink and the way it's heading. Another point from the same story was that someone was saying the new trams have less seats and would not be able to hold as many seated people like the trains did on the Oldham Loop and their has been nothing come back from Metrolink regarding that of cyclist that have used the Oldham line when commuting in with their bikes and the storage of them.Apparanty only folding bikes can be carried and inclosed in some form of cover.
So looks like even when all the work is done and the shiny new trams are tootling up and down the MEN and it's readership will I'm sure have lots of axes to grind.

Less seats but they will be a lot more regular so it all evens out :)

I personaly would much rather a more regular service but less seats. From memory during the day the trains from Oldham to Manchester were every half hour which is pathetic really, the Metrolink will be every six minutes so that is a massive improvement - if it works.

Whilst the closure of the Loop affects me personally (no longer able to take a full size cycle), as well as financially (lose my free travel entitlement), I still support the conversion.

However, people adapt and change. People may choose to have a bike at either end or switch to a folder. Hopefully the biggest will be attract car users. I can even see the potential for the line capturing Oldham - Huddersfield car traffic. At the moment, the buses are slow, hourly, whereas the rail service involves a detour via Manchester or change of mode to bus at Greenfield. Likewise Rochdale - Huddersfield, people will park & ride from the M62 at Milnrow, which could reduce traffic in Saddleworth/Colne Valley.

It will be more accessible for everyone, particularly those with mobility problems. Stops will be located nearer to places people now live/work, it will attract car users, reduce energy consumption, create jobs, support regeneration, be safer and easier to use, and more locally accountable.

Hopefully GMPTE will see sense, given massive public support for it, and allow cycles off-peak (after 9.30).

Try convincing the MEN readership.sure most people on here will be advocates of Metrolink but what I read in the press gives the feeling that people just tolorate it.
Now personally I can't speak really for or against the problems people have as I probably only use the system about twice a month as far as Stretford.So I can't get a full idea of were people are coming from with their gripes.
I didn't think the Oldham trams were going to be as frequent as every 6 minutes thought it was going to be every 12. Sounds ok to me. But get the feeling the people that used the loop line are going to take some convincing regarding the line being changed to trams. Think there is some apprehension after hearing and reading about the problems the trams have had in the past.True these were problems that cropped up before the major up grade but still I'm getting the feeling people are not happy.
The thing is will they be as reliable as the trains? We all know what happens if one breaks down on a section of track like the other day.True trains can be un reliable and break down but as it has been mentioned the tram cannot just be linked up and pushed out of the way apparently it's not as simple as that.
I'm concerned it may sound like I'm being negative about the Metrolink, I'm not. I rather look at both sides and not just go 'oh isn't it wonderful' when clearly it's not.
Be good to delve into the other systems in the uk such as Nottingham and Sheffield.
Probably truth but known they too have just the same amount of problems as we do here.

The thing is will they be as reliable as the trains? We all know what happens if one breaks down on a section of track like the other day.True trains can be un reliable and break down but as it has been mentioned the tram cannot just be linked up and pushed out of the way apparently it's not as simple as that.


Not true. It depends on the failure. What was mentioned was that a specific failure on the tram meant it couldn't be moved by another. Trains can have exactly the same issues.

In the majority of cases another tram can be used to assist.

I've been told Chorlton was every 12 minutes too.

I am a big fan of Metrolink I just think there needs to be more transparancy with regard to reliability. There needs to be much more passanger information at metrolink stops regarding this.

Also I wonder if metrolink tickets should be valid on all buses which follow the line e.g 263 in case of a break down? the bus company then would claim of metrolink, it would reduce the need for expensive replacement buses.

At the end of the day if you work 9-5 in an office the boss is not going to put up with somebody being an hour late every three weeks due to the metrolink not working.

We can't all be putting post on here,which to be fair not in all cases, praising the system and not really looking at peoples fears and concerns.The people that to be fair use the system on a daily basis spend their hard earned money on travel passes to use on Metrolink.
I can in part understand how annoying it must be when the travel experience isn't how it should be.
It's not like buses when if something goes wrong people can hop off and wait for the next one. And of course buses have problems too as do most modes of transport.
I do feel Manchester was lucky to get the system as my Home city of Leeds didn't get the Government backing. But I also try to look at the other side of the coin about the commuters that have to use it that arn't interested in how it was put together,who built the trams and the technology used.They just want to be able to get on them on a daily basis and get from A to B without problems and delays.
Like I said in the earlier posting it would be good to know how the other tram sytems that have been built in the past 18 years how they are fairing. Do they suffer to bad press and customer dissatisfaction to the same degree?

I've been told Chorlton was every 12 minutes too.

I am a big fan of Metrolink I just think there needs to be more transparancy with regard to reliability. There needs to be much more passanger information at metrolink stops regarding this.

Also I wonder if metrolink tickets should be valid on all buses which follow the line e.g 263 in case of a break down? the bus company then would claim of metrolink, it would reduce the need for expensive replacement buses.

At the end of the day if you work 9-5 in an office the boss is not going to put up with somebody being an hour late every three weeks due to the metrolink not working.

And what happens when the bus gets full of non payers to the passengers who have bought tickets to use on the bus?

And what happens when the bus gets full of non payers to the passengers who have bought tickets to use on the bus?

It won't happen as people are too lazy to walk 300-500 yards. I've used it before and everybody else just stands there waiting for a none existant replacement bus to turn up.

One thing I have learnt oberving transport and peoples behaviour is that people won't generally walk anywhere hence the need for shuttle buses.

Like I said in the earlier posting it would be good to know how the other tram sytems that have been built in the past 18 years how they are fairing. Do they suffer to bad press and customer dissatisfaction to the same degree?

But you aren't comparing like with like. The original Metrolink was built with £48 million. It was done ridiculously cheaply, using existing tracks wherever possible. Contrast that with Sheffield which cost £240 million and Nottingham which cost £200 million for entirely new infrastructure.

I'm not saying the system is perfect, but this is the primary reason for its problems and a fair comparison can only be made when the renovation works are completed.

Have they rebuilt the part outside the court? Looking at it it looks like it was done in the last set of upgrades and if so it is a prime example of how rushing this work will produce a crap result. The concrete surface is cracked and crumbling around the trackks and the surface isn't graded well so when it was raining the water didn't drain off but instead created a huge pool of water. Poor quality of woks because they are rushed.

But you aren't comparing like with like. The original Metrolink was built with £48 million. It was done ridiculously cheaply, using existing tracks wherever possible. Contrast that with Sheffield which cost £240 million and Nottingham which cost £200 million for entirely new infrastructure.

I'm not saying the system is perfect, but this is the primary reason for its problems and a fair comparison can only be made when the renovation works are completed.

The public don't care about this though, they just want the tram to turn up or to be given a warning if there is a problem. Currently it can be at least half an hour before any announcements are made.

The public don't care about this though, they just want the tram to turn up or to be given a warning if there is a problem. Currently it can be at least half an hour before any announcements are made.

That's not what I was arguing against. I was merely pointing out that it's pointless to compare Metrolink to the Sheffield or Nottingham system as a method of working out if the system is managed well, poorly or middling.

That's not what I was arguing against. I was merely pointing out that it's pointless to compare Metrolink to the Sheffield or Nottingham system as a method of working out if the system is managed well, poorly or middling.

OK :)

I think the real people to blame are probably the tory government for being so tight with funding in the first place but then at least it got built.

But you aren't comparing like with like. The original Metrolink was built with £48 million. It was done ridiculously cheaply, using existing tracks wherever possible. Contrast that with Sheffield which cost £240 million and Nottingham which cost £200 million for entirely new infrastructure.

I'm not saying the system is perfect, but this is the primary reason for its problems and a fair comparison can only be made when the renovation works are completed.

Thats REALLY cheap considering Portsmouth's was going to cost £250million and 70% of that was on existing (but disused) alignment.

Thats REALLY cheap considering Portsmouth's was going to cost £250million and 70% of that was on existing (but disused) alignment.

You did have that massive under sea tunnel though.

True... ours was part subway.

Try convincing the MEN readership.sure most people on here will be advocates of Metrolink but what I read in the press gives the feeling that people just tolorate it.

I think the problem with our perspective is that we only see the polarised opinions - there are people here who are (mostly) for the Metrolink, people on MEN who produce an arguments against pretty much anything (basically anything involving spending taxpayers money or anything involving not investing money in something), then there are the people quoted in the news when the tram fails (presumably the reporter arrives and searches for the most irate person). Basically we don't know what the true public opinion is - having said that the tram network is used for 20m journeys a year, so it can't all be bad.

That's not what I was arguing against. I was merely pointing out that it's pointless to compare Metrolink to the Sheffield or Nottingham system as a method of working out if the system is managed well, poorly or middling.

Well this is true - there are too many variables (investment/management/staff etc.) to know who or what is to blame, the primary objective is to run a reliable, popular service, that the passengers (in the main) feel is decent. I'd say (hope) that most passengers think the service is fine, and probably couldn't care less - yes sometimes they arrive 10 minutes late, but that could happen on the roads/bus/train, so really it's not something important to them. We just don't want people waking up each morning thinking "Oh no, I've got to get the tram, and I don't want to turn up late to work again...".

What I really want to know is whether passengers genuinely are annoyed at the service, and whether other systems (without casting blame on anyone/thing) do operate a more reliable service. If they do, and it is due to investment, then perhaps we will see a much more reliable system after this round of upgrades (at least for new trams running on the new infrastructure).

I think the problem with our perspective is that we only see the polarised opinions - there are people here who are (mostly) for the Metrolink, people on MEN who produce an arguments against pretty much anything (basically anything involving spending taxpayers money or anything involving not investing money in something), then there are the people quoted in the news when the tram fails (presumably the reporter arrives and searches for the most irate person). Basically we don't know what the true public opinion is - having said that the tram network is used for 20m journeys a year, so it can't all be bad.



Well this is true - there are too many variables (investment/management/staff etc.) to know who or what is to blame, the primary objective is to run a reliable, popular service, that the passengers (in the main) feel is decent. I'd say (hope) that most passengers think the service is fine, and probably couldn't care less - yes sometimes they arrive 10 minutes late, but that could happen on the roads/bus/train, so really it's not something important to them. We just don't want people waking up each morning thinking "Oh no, I've got to get the tram, and I don't want to turn up late to work again...".

What I really want to know is whether passengers genuinely are annoyed at the service, and whether other systems (without casting blame on anyone/thing) do operate a more reliable service. If they do, and it is due to investment, then perhaps we will see a much more reliable system after this round of upgrades (at least for new trams running on the new infrastructure).

I do use the tram for work, mainly to get to the city centre or for a damn good excuse to leave my car at home and not have to drive down the dreaded A56 to Altrincham for jobs.

And yes I have got very annoyed when it fails but it also depends why it has failed. When it failed in early september I was huming because it all should have been avoided. The problem is while a ten minute delay is perfectly fine people are left stranded not knowing if it will turn up or why it is late. We need a proper information system so people know if the tram will turn up then they can either get a bus/taxi or drive.

I am pro Metrolink and I love it, all major cities need a comprehensive light rail way system and without it Manchester would be stuck in the dark ages I just hope it becomes more reliable so I can forget my recent bad experiences.

I am pro Metrolink and I love it, all major cities need a comprehensive light rail way system and without it Manchester would be stuck in the dark ages I just hope it becomes more reliable so I can forget my recent bad experiences.[/QUOTE]

I think that's what the general public are wanting out of it all.
Most people hate to think money has been spent that later turns out to be shoddily done.
Now people know a big investment has been done to boost the system then I like most hope when it's all done it's going to last much better than 18 years and be better run and reliable.

The funny thing is its only since I started driving I have been using it a lot before then the metrolink station was 20 minutes walk and the 86 is every 5 or so minutes so I would get the bus everywhere. Now I am driving I have not got the patience to put up with a 6mph journey which is the average speed the 86 does.

For this reason I have only experienced metrolink in the past year when it has been full of problems, has it always been this bad?

I would use it ten times a year until last year and now used it around 2.5 times a week.

For this reason I have only experienced metrolink in the past year when it has been full of problems, has it always been this bad?


I have used it for 1 return journey a day for the past 4 years and it has always been crap. If my employer didn't know how crap it was almost everyone I work with would have been fired for lateness. Metrolink costs companies money in lost staff time and every company on the Quays knows how bad it is so have some tollerance to staff lateness.

You did have that massive under sea tunnel though.

I don't know where a figure os £48 million comes from to build the original metrolink..... It was nearer £170 million... Think about it 26 trams at £1 million each doesn't give any change to have built the rest of it....lol

Mosley Street progress, pictured this afternoon:

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu267/smartcma1/IMG00035.jpg

any news if the 4th tram arrived this weekend?

I don't know where a figure os £48 million comes from to build the original metrolink..... It was nearer £170 million... Think about it 26 trams at £1 million each doesn't give any change to have built the rest of it....lol

Sorry you're right. I should learn to read tables properly. Here is an accurate figure (as far as I know).

Phase 1 Funding

Source GBP
Borrowings by GMPTA 69
DoT Section 56 grant 48
Borrowing from European Investment Bank 15
European Regional Development Fund 13
Total 145

So 145 million pounds. Still quite a bit less.

any news if the 4th tram arrived this weekend?

next weekend if my memory serves me correctly!

next weekend if my memory serves me correctly!

Which? this weekend coming?
Regarding the track work it's nearly all done now round the Victoria and Shude hill areas. just some block work to finish as it comes down Balloon street.
The track section is now in place across the road over dantzic street and resting onto the first new section of concrete base.
The rest of the pour of concrete up the Shudehill stop section was yet to be done this morning. Only other bit of track work to fit together was leading out of Shudehill stop and over Shudehill itself and of course the section where the concrete was yet to be layed.New track now down infront of Primark.Just bits to join really and of course the finishes inbetween the tracks where not done.Piccadilly gardens has the formwork up for the last long sections of platform edge ready for the concrete pour and service pipes are being layed along its length. I still think we shall see the early Nov date for track opening.

:banana:4 is coming this friday evening notice is up on are no parking board.

:banana:4 is coming this friday evening notice is up on are no parking board.

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu267/smartcma1/IMG00035.jpg

Can someone tell me why further up Mosley Street, they've left one side of the road in tarmac whilst the other in tiles? It looks so odd and wrong!

I assume it has something to do with the amount of buses using that side of the road, but come on! cutting corners or what!? It stinks!

The tiled area is 'new and improved' and has been done whilst the Metrolink lines are being replaced. The tarmac road is what remains, but the overall picture Is definitely an improvement IMO.

I just wait for the day when all of the pavements are paved, rather than the mish-mash of quality stone and then tarmac that is in place from street to street in the city centre.

The council seem to be tackiling this by insisting that the developer improves the paving in front of any new/refurbished building. I guess it will eventually prove the solution if a little piece-meal and at least this way the private sector makes the contribution.

Wholesale projects such as New York Street have worked very well to this effect.

The road running sections are to be left as tarmac, that is sections of road that run along side the city centre track but not actually carrying lines. Also as people will notice the sections where motor vehicles run where track is present the track has be reinforced with a dark coloured concrete to each side of the track itself.In effect to help when motor vehicles are travelling over the top. I agree the road surface does look patchy especially down towards the direction of St.Peters Square opposite the peace gardens.
Maybe the contractors just had to make good the parts that were not carrying track but were affected by the work.

I also think even though a good job has been done with the block work I bet if it had been used as a general road surface to match the track road it would get knackered by the amount of buses over it especially on Mosley street. It remains to be seen how well it lasts the parts nearest the track itself and if problems of sinkage like on the old blockwork surface start appearing. Hope the problem has been sorted on the bend by Piccadilly Gardens opposite Abbey. The always was a mini lake on that bend.

A couple of photos showing the progress on the Metrolink 'inter-connector' between the Bury line and the Oldham Line

Towards Manchester Victoria

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000080.jpg

Towards Dean lane/Monsall/Oldham

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000081.jpg

Re: Metroilnk City Centre Work

Thank you for your recent comments regarding the works being carried out on the city centre Metrolink service.

The works taking place in the city centre has always been a very separate project from the works that took place on the Altrincham and Eccles lines. Work to replace the tracks in the city centre commenced on 6 April 2009 and is set to be completed on schedule for a 2 November reopening. This project has been developed in close partnership with Manchester City Council and the reopening date has not changed since the work was agreed with the contractor.

The entire city centre network has been tested section by section. We will also be carrying out 2 days of testing prior to opening. Whilst we are doing everything possible to ensure that the service does not encounter any problems, it is worth noting that the electrical challenges in the city centre are substantially different from those encountered on the Altrincham line. There are currently no plans to carry out any further work on the Altrincham and Bury lines.

We took the opportunity to conduct maintenance checks on the trams whilst they were stationed at the depot during the blockade. We also aim to refurbish the current Metrolink fleet in the coming year.

An autumn edition of the Metrolink newsletter is currently in production and it will be made available on the website as soon as it is published. We understand and share your views on the importance of keeping customers informed of any Metrolink news. We therefore intend to update customers on any major developments throughout the Future Metrolink project.

I hope this information is of use to you. If you require any further assistance, please don’t hesitate to contact Customer Relations at, customer.relations@gmpte.gov.uk.

Yours sincerely

GMPTE Customer Relations Officer

So there. We've been told.You have it in black and white the opening is still 2nd November. We have it from the powers that be. Well There're going to look daft now if it doesn't after now also posting a official statement on a forum.

So there. We've been told.You have it in black and white the opening is still 2nd November. We have it from the powers that be. Well There're going to look daft now if it doesn't after now also posting a official statement on a forum.

as a metrolink driver, they will never learn from there mistakes! it will reopen but it will not be finished in parts and will still be like a building site! :ohno:

Airing caution by saying they are testing it for 2 days the complete city centre track.
Hmmm don't think they want another fiasco like the Sept opening.Well you would have thought that the new ticket manchines would be going in while the work to get the city centre stops done.But reading stuff on the official site it appears to read that those will follow after the opening which seems a bit arse about tit.

One osbervation is I don't think platform signs are clear enough. I did a job in the Brooklands area tonight and parked up at Stretford and used the metrolink to avoid driving down the A56 . On my way back I got a little lost for some reason and I wasn't entirely sure what platform I should have been on, i did get the right one but I couldn't find any signs. I did in the end see a small sign which said trams to Manchester but I think it needs to be clearer. In London and Paris the platforms are very clear about where they are heading towards.

Hopefully when we get the information displays it will solve that problem :).

Another thing is I am in shock, in the past five metrolink journeys I have made none of them have been delayed or have broken down! For the first time I am getting the feeling things have improved.

A few pictures from the Ashton line and the new depot site from today.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000085.jpg

Just after leaving the Piccadilly turnback sidings towards Great Ancoats

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000082.jpg

Running between the two buildings with Piccadilly in the backgrounN

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000083.jpg

Dropping down to pass under Great Ancoats. No major changes here since last time.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000089.jpg

Towards Chorlton

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000092.jpg

Depot overview

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000091.jpg

New track!

Another thing is I am in shock, in the past five metrolink journeys I have made none of them have been delayed or have broken down! For the first time I am getting the feeling things have improved.


Don't kid yourself Joydivision lol :cheers:

Don't kid yourself Joydivision lol :cheers:

It surely can't be all bad Metman otherwise you wouldn't drive the trams.

Been on it twice today and sadly its gone really slow towards Cornbrook again. It seems to be signal related but don't know why. It took me half an hour to get from Old Trafford to St Peters if you include the 12 minute wait I had for the tram, I missed it by 6 seconds.

With regard to construction at old trafford you can see the turnstables layout now and what is going to be installed. It looks to be a bit threatening and far too big. I know this is to help capacity but its looking more like a train station than a metrolink stop. I think if the gates are in use all the time I will just use Stretford metrolink stop instead. I currently tend to use Stretford for Altrincham trams and Old Trafford for city centre/bury ones.

Slightly off topic I noticed at Brooklands (I think it was) station you can see an old third rail. I thought all the track was replaced last year? That part of the track looks like it is decades old.

A couple of photos showing the progress on the Metrolink 'inter-connector' between the Bury line and the Oldham Line

Towards Manchester Victoria

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000080.jpg

Towards Dean lane/Monsall/Oldham

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000081.jpg

The top photograph looks in the direction of Irk Valley Junction. This was the site of a famous railway smash in the 1950s, in which a Bacup steam train collided with a Bury line elecric set. Some of the latter's carriages fell over the viaduct into the Irk valley.

The bottom picture shows the wide trackbed formerly occupied by the L and Y four track layout on the Collyhurst loop.

Train Guard

Been on it twice today and sadly its gone really slow towards Cornbrook again. It seems to be signal related but don't know why. It took me half an hour to get from Old Trafford to St Peters if you include the 12 minute wait I had for the tram, I missed it by 6 seconds.

There's always a wait on the Cornbrook viaduct as they have to wait for the two trams in St Peter's Square to come out. There'd have been an Eccles tram in front waiting at GMEX station for the same reason. Considering there is almost always (with a few rare exceptions) a wait of 2 minutes or more, you'd have thought they would have just made the trams set off from Altrincham 2 minutes later or something.

Slightly off topic I noticed at Brooklands (I think it was) station you can see an old third rail. I thought all the track was replaced last year? That part of the track looks like it is decades old.

I think you must be mistaken. The line has never had a third rail as far as I know. It was probably just an old bit of track thats been left lying by the rails as quite often happens.

I took these pictures this morning in Hull as I was waiting to disembark the Pride of Hull from Rotterdam. Watching the lorries emerge I was very surprised to see the tram below as did not see it loaded yesterday having arrived at the ship after they had loaded it.
I thought it looked smart and colourful.


http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/9813/p1000245f.jpg (http://img21.imageshack.us/i/p1000245f.jpg/)

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/963/p1000248o.jpg (http://img261.imageshack.us/i/p1000248o.jpg/)

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4194/p1000247n.jpg (http://img261.imageshack.us/i/p1000247n.jpg/)


I much preferred the Amsterdam trams when they were yellow.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8947/p1000220v.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/i/p1000220v.jpg/)

wow good to catch No 4 coming off onto English soil.
It looks less finished off than the others with the body work or is it the same as when 2 and 3 arrived?

Its the same as 2 and 3 without the spots, could be the light but this one looks less silver and more grey than the others though, so it does look less finished.

Any news of how the testing is going? I mean GMPTE have promised us these trams my Autumn, so thats when November 2010?

they are supposed to be rolling them out autumn this year but as mentioned by someone in an earlier post the trams have to go through quite intensive trials on the lines.
Someone also stated that the drivers had yet to start their training on them.
I would be suprised if we see any on the streets with the public on them before the end of the year.

Yep a driver told me each driver needs a weeks training on them and that is after the trams have passed all the safety checks. He also said there were over 100 drivers which would need to be trained. Why do GMPTE tell us they will be ready for Autumn when they clearly will not be?

Yep a driver told me each driver needs a weeks training on them and that is after the trams have passed all the safety checks. He also said there were over 100 drivers which would need to be trained. Why do GMPTE tell us they will be ready for Autumn when they clearly will not be?

Then clearly it's a case of one organisation wanting one thing i.e gmpte or whatever the the new improved name is and the other, i.e Stagecoach calling the shots and rolling out when they are ready.
In retropect I think someone was being over optimistic with the idea of having the new trams on the streets in public use this year. It's not like drivers have been sent to the place where they are made or cities that have them in service and get some familiarisation. The powers that be knew how long they would take to build and ship over. Whoever will surely have known that these new trams will need some time to be tested on the streets where the new track was laid to see how they run.

All the signage was being removed from Mosley Street the other day. So they are either yellowing the stop up, or going to close it?

If they keep it open then the new trams will have to run as singles and the doubles will all be 1xxx and 2xxx. Maybe the new ones will be operating the eccles service to make up for the bad service and up to 48 minute waits we have.

Yep a driver told me each driver needs a weeks training on them and that is after the trams have passed all the safety checks. He also said there were over 100 drivers which would need to be trained. Why do GMPTE tell us they will be ready for Autumn when they clearly will not be?

Did they?

I thought they had said they had planned to have the new trams coming on line from November - I am sure they would have done if no issues had arisen.

When they know the score I am sure they will give an update, it's pretty pointless saying they will enter service in January if in reality they do not yet know what issues need to be fixed, let alone how long those issues will take to be resolved.

In 12months time all these worries will have been forgotten and 99.99% of the population will never have even been aware of them.

So, been away for last 2 weeks, how is the city centre coming along?

Anyone got any piccies?

Oh, and stop worrying about the 'problems' with the phase 3 trams, this occurs in every rail project. It is why WCML was so troubled, thankfully the PTE built in a huge contingency in the budgets to allow for this type of thing occuring.

Hi, been a lurker on this forum for many years!

Does anyone know if Elsinore Rd between Old Trafford and Trafford Bar will be a through road after the completion of the Metrolink extension?

It looks as if the rails will block the road.

Also, what's the situation regarding an Oyster card like system for the Met? Has it been shelved?

Road closed for good.

'Oyster card' delayed indefinately following TIF vote last year.

hi guys i am a tram driver and we are being told that it will be jan before we even get to touch one of the new trams,think the gmpte are of there heads they have only just started testing 3002 and 3001 is yet to go through the city and travel on the alt and eccles lins.

hi guys i am a tram driver and we are being told that it will be jan before we even get to touch one of the new trams,think the gmpte are of there heads they have only just started testing 3002 and 3001 is yet to go through the city and travel on the alt and eccles lins.

Which is probably why we won't hear any press releases saying that they will enter service in January - they simply won't know yet.

So, been away for last 2 weeks,

Hi Metrolink, good to see you back, I was wondering where you had gone.

Had a nosey at Queens Road today. No pictures unfortunatly, all is pretty much finished except for the overhead wires, which were being worked on. All tram pantographs down. Shudehill was also closed today for the final time so that work on the second line is completed Foundations in Shudehill tram station are complete. Foundations for the line at Piccadilly Gardens are also finished. Barriers are now removed from High street, Moseley Street and Victoria station.

I could only see two of the new trams today, tram 2001 has also moved from its usual home to the main storage roads. That big yellow German wagon was just leaving this afternoon

Tram 1025 has a new hat

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/DSC00727.jpg

Is that a new air con unit for the drivers cab?

Is that a new air con unit for the drivers cab?


Yes it is, but no doubt it wont be working within a months time lol:ohno::bash::lol:

lol, only the best upgrades for our beautiful metrolink trams!

I have a question.

I noticed while I was poking my head over the bridge at Queens Road, that a woman, with two prams and a guy were all waiting at the so called staff halt. Is the metro now picking people up from here? When I came back they had gone so I presume a tram had stopped and let them on? They seem to have to come from the small side gate that goes into the estate just next to the Manchester bound staff platform :nuts::nuts:

Davenport Street closed off:
http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm469/carlf18/059a.jpg

Old TSB now demolished:
http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm469/carlf18/067a.jpg

End of the line at Droylsden (unless funding for A-U-L extension appears):
http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm469/carlf18/051a.jpg

lol, only the best upgrades for our beautiful metrolink trams!

I have a question.

I noticed while I was poking my head over the bridge at Queens Road, that a woman, with two prams and a guy were all waiting at the so called staff halt. Is the metro now picking people up from here? When I came back they had gone so I presume a tram had stopped and let them on? They seem to have to come from the small side gate that goes into the estate just next to the Manchester bound staff platform :nuts::nuts:


Hmmm, they might have been kicked off there by inspectors for having no tickets, unless we have had a bring your wife and kids to work day?? :lol:

Great pics going on guys.

Bank coming down the start:

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt286/W0bz_photos/Metrolink%20-%20Edge%20Lane%20Sept-Oct%2009/start.jpg

a few days later
http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt286/W0bz_photos/Metrolink%20-%20Edge%20Lane%20Sept-Oct%2009/DSC01686.jpg

Nearly there!
http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt286/W0bz_photos/Metrolink%20-%20Edge%20Lane%20Sept-Oct%2009/DSC01693.jpg

Then it was gone

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt286/W0bz_photos/Metrolink%20-%20Edge%20Lane%20Sept-Oct%2009/Last.jpg


Road Works Edge lane - intial Metrolink work until Jan 10
http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt286/W0bz_photos/Metrolink%20-%20Edge%20Lane%20Sept-Oct%2009/Edgelane.jpg


Road works Ashton/Manchester Road looking towards Clayton

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt286/W0bz_photos/Metrolink%20-%20Edge%20Lane%20Sept-Oct%2009/AshtonRoad.jpg

Seems mad that after all this time they are finally building the extensions, woo hooo! Great photos Wobs + High-Fi.

What is the current status of the rest of the line after Droylsden to Ashton? Is the money available? Not heard any news about them for a while.

Regarding the Ashton extension - my understanding was that it was on "fast track" with Didsbury and that they were expected to be signed off next month.

Took some pics this and last weekend (the sunday after the last train) down at Shaw Train Station.

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt286/W0bz_photos/Metrolink%20-%20Shaw%20Train%20Station/DSC01702.jpg


http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt286/W0bz_photos/Metrolink%20-%20Shaw%20Train%20Station/DSC01708.jpg

Level crossing - tracks blocked off

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt286/W0bz_photos/Metrolink%20-%20Shaw%20Train%20Station/DSC01703.jpg


barriers off

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt286/W0bz_photos/Metrolink%20-%20Shaw%20Train%20Station/DSC01704.jpg


Looking from the form Rochdale bound platform

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt286/W0bz_photos/Metrolink%20-%20Shaw%20Train%20Station/DSC01701.jpg

Former station

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt286/W0bz_photos/Metrolink%20-%20Shaw%20Train%20Station/DSC01706.jpg

Looking at where the new Metrolink stop will be - looking towards Oldham(Derker)

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt286/W0bz_photos/Metrolink%20-%20Shaw%20Train%20Station/DSC01705.jpg

Former Rochdale bound platform

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt286/W0bz_photos/Metrolink%20-%20Shaw%20Train%20Station/DSC01713.jpg

Former Oldham/Manchester bound platform

http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt286/W0bz_photos/Metrolink%20-%20Shaw%20Train%20Station/DSC01714.jpg

Car park (and access to fromer Rochdale platform) now blocked off
http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt286/W0bz_photos/Metrolink%20-%20Shaw%20Train%20Station/DSC01715.jpg

A bit long but a vid on the Oldham-Loop on th e4th of Oct the day after the last train - a bit spooky no trains or people!

And the sun is out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aahh3xCiJ6Q

Thank god you were on the ball W0bz and captured the milestone. I always arrive when the action is over. Cheers bud.

any idea why its taking so long to convert the oldham line?

any idea why its taking so long to convert the oldham line?

its going to rochdale via oldham so it will be a really long line with lots of stops. still 2 years does seem a long time. maybe the track is worn out?

Not only is it worn out but there is only one track for a long length of the existin track.

They will have the 'easy' section open much earlier than that - i.e. Central Park spring 2011 (I think) and Oldham not long after.

This is a huge piece of work and the contractors and consultants reckon it'll take that long - I suspect they have a good idea what they are talking about.

its going to rochdale via oldham so it will be a really long line with lots of stops. still 2 years does seem a long time. maybe the track is worn out?

they also won't have enough trams to operate it as they are coming 1 a month. We only have 4 now and 12 are for alt/bury/media city... that takes till next july, then any after that will be for chorlton/central park.

Not only is it worn out but there is only one track for a long length of the existin track.

They will have the 'easy' section open much earlier than that - i.e. Central Park spring 2011 (I think) and Oldham not long after.

This is a huge piece of work and the contractors and consultants reckon it'll take that long - I suspect they have a good idea what they are talking about.

oh yeah. i forgot that it had been singled in some places.

From memory they may need to do some work on some of the tunnels (around Oldham) as they trams will only fit through them right in the middle of the tunnel - i.e. single track.
Otherwise the pantogrpah will be hitting the roof.

Also, there is a monster - 800m (again from memory) tunnel to be built for the Phase3b section into Oldham centre. Sure that will not be relevant for the Phase3a work that will take 2 years, but they will need to take the preperation works for such tunnels into account - they do not want to have to shut the line for 6months two years after it has been opened to link into the Oldham and Rochdale town centre routes that are part of Phase3b.

The complexity of such projects, and the oppurtunity for major issues to arise are enormous, the project managers on these pieces of work deserve every penny they get paid.

I know they keep saying about the tram wires not fitting through the tunnels at Oldham but it does baffle me.

Look at the size of the tunnel compared to this 142 for example

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/01/49/92/1499204_6ce730bb.jpg

If you want an example of how low the pantographs can go, watch the tram from the railway platforms at Victoria, as it goes under cheetham Hill road. Its a hell of a lot lower than that tunnel. I can only think that it is an excuse to try and hurry through the construction the slow line through the town centre and force the closure of the tunnels, even though it would make an ideal express tram route for the future.

From memory they may need to do some work on some of the tunnels (around Oldham) as they trams will only fit through them right in the middle of the tunnel - i.e. single track.
Otherwise the pantogrpah will be hitting the roof.

Also, there is a monster - 800m (again from memory) tunnel to be built for the Phase3b section into Oldham centre. Sure that will not be relevant for the Phase3a work that will take 2 years, but they will need to take the preperation works for such tunnels into account - they do not want to have to shut the line for 6months two years after it has been opened to link into the Oldham and Rochdale town centre routes that are part of Phase3b.

The complexity of such projects, and the oppurtunity for major issues to arise are enormous, the project managers on these pieces of work deserve every penny they get paid.

it looks like a pretty torturous route that they are having to upgrade. i cant believe that they are shelling out for building a new 800 metre tunnel though.

Are there any bends or anything in that tunnel?

To be honest, along the sides the tunnel does reduce in height very fast.

it looks like a pretty torturous route that they are having to upgrade. i cant believe that they are shelling out for building a new 800 metre tunnel though.

There is a listed building on the route that needs to be navigated under - no alternative apparently.

It is why the Oldham town centre line is much more expensive, and less value for money, than the Rochdale town centre section.

Remind me since ive forgotten, do the existing t68/a have the needed fire safety certification for underground running or would only M5000's be able to use the line?

local lad posted a picture of a line linking the oldham loop and the bury line. does that mean it will be possible to get a service from oldham to bury direct or is the link intended to just be an access route from the depot?

Remind me since ive forgotten, do the existing t68/a have the needed fire safety certification for underground running or would only M5000's be able to use the line?

Think they are fine.

The fire regs were one of the concerns, the main concern in fact, when they looked at adding a new section into the existing trams.

My understanding is the existing ones are fine - despite the fact there has beena couple of fire over the decades.

local lad posted a picture of a line linking the oldham loop and the bury line. does that mean it will be possible to get a service from oldham to bury direct or is the link intended to just be an access route from the depot?

South bound link only between Queens Rd and Victoria.

South bound link only between Queens Rd and Victoria.

has there been any talk of a link being added at any stage?

Progress on the Chorlton line connection:

Sept 16th:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2613/4005370373_f9def0589f_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/alr1970/4005370373/)

on Monday:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2628/4005738637_3ed3aa92f3_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/alr1970/4005738637/)

Steelwork for a shed going up today, photo at ten...

Andrew

has there been any talk of a link being added at any stage?

No, won't happen.

Just like you cannot go direct from Eccles to Alty and all the other lines will link into the inbound tracks and not any outbound tracks - other than the depot on the Alty line.

No, won't happen.

Just like you cannot go direct from Eccles to Alty and all the other lines will link into the inbound tracks and not any outbound tracks - other than the depot on the Alty line.

do you think there would be a theoretical benefit to creating a metrolink ring rail linking all the lines together at any point in the future?

Would be a very long way down the list of priorities tbh.

In reality it would be Phase 35 in my priorities.

Would be a very long way down the list of priorities tbh.

In reality it would be Phase 35 in my priorities.

what do you see as being the priorities?

Personally, in no particular order...

East Dids to Stockport and onwards to the east
Stockport to airport direct
Eccles to Cadishead and maybe beyong
Pomona to Trafford Centre
Additional city centre lines, including east - west lines
A line out to Denton
Connecting Middleton somehow
A very long line to Bolton town centre
A very long line to Wigan town centre
Alty line extended to Hale, Bowdon and maybe south to a huge park and ride near M56 / A556 junction


probably a shed load more that I have missed, but I would like as many people in GM to be within 10mins walk of a tram station as possible.

I would like to see a street running Fallowfield line. Going down Oxford Road from St Peters to Owens Park. However it would not be publicaly popular as most people use public transport on that route anyway.

However I just walked down there this afternoon past the university and the air quality was simply dire with all the old school MagicBuses chugging away. I think a tram link would really improve the air quality round that part of Manchester and will give people of Ardwick and East Hulme easier access to the system.

Personally, in no particular order...

East Dids to Stockport and onwards to the east
Stockport to airport direct
Eccles to Cadishead and maybe beyong
Pomona to Trafford Centre
Additional city centre lines, including east - west lines
A line out to Denton
Connecting Middleton somehow
A very long line to Bolton town centre
A very long line to Wigan town centre
Alty line extended to Hale, Bowdon and maybe south to a huge park and ride near M56 / A556 junction


probably a shed load more that I have missed, but I would like as many people in GM to be within 10mins walk of a tram station as possible.

ive debated this point quite extensively on one of the other threads. the problem with a caddishead line would be that there is very little between irlam and eccles that would warrant building another stop (other than port salford) so the cost to benefits ratio wouldnt be very high compared to other lines. also it is adding time to an already ponderous journey into manchester via tram that may not work out much quicker than getting the bus, or walking to irlam train station and getting on the train.

the same goes for possibly converting the old partington line into an extension that runs onto the altrincham line. there isnt a great population base round there with which to balance the cost of the line. a final problem with a partington stop would be that if port salford isnt built and the freight terminal stays in trafford park then eventually a westbound freight route over a rebuilt caddishead bridge may become necessary to ease capacity problems and would stop conversion of warrington to manchester as a tram/train route and also partington getting a met stop as i imagine you couldnt get tram/trains and freight trains certified to run on the same bit of track together.

It's all just dreams, as you say, in reality none of them are ever likely to get to the planning stage let along be built.

It's all just dreams, as you say, in reality none of them are ever likely to get to the planning stage let along be built.

i dont know. maybe in the long term tram train operations will completely replace local heavy rail travel. we could get to a point a very long time from now where even the altrincham line sees a return from mainline services to cheshire, sharing the route with tram/train metrolink. the same would go for the bolton and wigan lines. if the world freight terminal does move it would remove the need for a west bound freight line down the manchester to liverpool line so maybe a partington line could be built as a way of stimulating growth in the partington area.

Not in my life time I am afraid.

It has taken 30 years to get where we are today, I really do not see it getting any easier into the future.

I may be being overly pessimistic, but in 1989 when Phase1 finally got approval, if you said 20 years on we would only have the Eccles line added to the oringinal proposals in operation you would have been acused of being a miserable pessimistic bastard.

After 20 years of nothing I ain't raising my hopes, especially with the economy screwed and the future of northern cities so much in the balance.

Not in my life time I am afraid.

It has taken 30 years to get where we are today, I really do not see it getting any easier into the future.

I may be being overly pessimistic, but in 1989 when Phase1 finally got approval, if you said 20 years on we would only have the Eccles line added to the oringinal proposals in operation you would have been acused of being a miserable pessimistic bastard.

After 20 years of nothing I ain't raising my hopes, especially with the economy screwed and the future of northern cities so much in the balance.

in 1991 oil was at its lowest price in decades so there wasnt the political will to force everyone out of their cars as it was a vote loser and the country's infrastructure was running under capacity in a lot of instances, not near, at or over capacity as is the case today.

now there is a credible, looming threat of oil running out in our life time that can be used to scare people onto public transport and the rising cost of oil (and living in general) added to the rapidly clogging transport infrastructure in the uk is leading a lot of people to think that owning a car just isnt worth the cost and the hassle anymore.

i have two jobs and i still cant bloody afford one!!!

Yes, but see the TIF vote results.

You are mistaking your views / position with what the views / position is of the opinion formers are in the region.

Yes, but see the TIF vote results.

You are mistaking your views / position with what the views / position is of the opinion formers are in the region.

didnt the whole basis of the TIF vote result boil down to: "do you want to pay a congestion charge to have a decent public transport system?" answer "no".

Train spotters,

When will work on the line to the airport begin?

Train spotters,

When will work on the line to the airport begin?

2011. and its a tram. boi.

I wouldnt be quite so pessmistic Metro, in 3 years it will be 3x its present size. I would imagine the next major extension wouldnt be for at least a decade but the people in charge of our transport are becoming stronger and less reliant on central government. I mean look at the situation we are in now, 3B is locally funded but we still have to waste 6 months asking the government for transport control orders. If we do get TFL powers as is looking likely we wont need that extra step. Also a lot of this extension is being funded by loans against passenger revenues, if their paid off early its money in the bank for borrowing for the next set of expansions and even if their not they will suddenly find they have a lot of capital available in 30 years time. We just need to focus on making sure a big expansion happens in 15 years time to bridge the gap.

I wouldnt be quite so pessmistic Metro, in 3 years it will be 3x its present size. I would imagine the next major extension wouldnt be for at least a decade but the people in charge of our transport are becoming stronger and less reliant on central government. I mean look at the situation we are in now, 3B is locally funded but we still have to waste 6 months asking the government for transport control orders. If we do get TFL powers as is looking likely we wont need that extra step. Also a lot of this extension is being funded by loans against passenger revenues, if their paid off early its money in the bank for borrowing for the next set of expansions and even if their not they will suddenly find they have a lot of capital available in 30 years time. We just need to focus on making sure a big expansion happens in 15 years time to bridge the gap.

i agree. i think that the future is a lot brighter for public transport than it was in 1991. the basis of the TIF vote going against the local councils was that people didnt want to have to pay a congestion charge for a good public transport system. they didnt vote that they didnt want a good public transport system or that they werent prepared to use it. i think the fact that public transport ridership is higher than at any time since the end of the second world war shows people are getting sick of sitting in traffic and paying through the nose for petrol.

Re Pics of Bank

No probs Hiigh-Fi -I only work a few minutes away so it was easy to keep an eye on things - i was saving the pics up as I thought it looked better to see the progress all at once rather than posting 1 at a time.

Re - Oldham -Rochdale line

There is some very good info on LRTA's Oldham -Rochdale section:
http://www.lrta.org/Manchester/Oldham_Rochdale.html

As for the single line though the tunnels @ werneth - when I raised the issue at the drop in they seemed to think that that it would remain double tracked as the trams are narrower (implying that thay could move the tracks closer together) but to be honest they didn't seem that sure.

Local Lads pic does really shows that the arch on the tunnels is more like a Norman arch and although there is quite a bit of clearence in the middle, the sides are not that for off the top - so if they do manage two track s it will be tight! I am quite sure the tunnels are fairly straight.

There are big differences in the Rochdale's town centre section Oldham's - Rochdale's is all street running as the fly over the Leeds rail track (simular to the one at thorpe junction I guess) and bring it down to the front of the station are part of 3a - Oldham's has to bring it down from the elivated section at Mumps roundabout at one end and through the a tunnel section at the other (to get it under Oldham Way - which is vey by pass that cut off Mumps station leaving a muggers paradise - I mean subway & and a knackard bridge as the only access from the town centre).

I don't know why it is taking so long to the Oldham loop - its going to be
2 1/2 years until 3a is done - there is plenty of work to do but the East Manchester Line is taking the same amount of time and there is shed loads of utility work and road to dig up! I think it is funding - i.e. it is being drip fed in rather than being there at the start - I guess.

It may have been pointed out by others whilst I was away on holiday, however, the refurbished tracks in the city centre that will have buses / other vehicles on them are clearly not of the granite (or whatever it was) blocks, rather traditional tarmac.

http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/general/2009/10/14-great-manchester-ita-to-cut.html

It may have been pointed out by others whilst I was away on holiday, however, the refurbished tracks in the city centre that will have buses / other vehicles on them are clearly not of the granite (or whatever it was) blocks, rather traditional tarmac.

Only where cars/buses cross the tracks, buses will still travel on stone blocks along Mosely St.

From when I was there yesterday it looked like the inbound track was tarmac not stones.

Was I mistaken? It was from a distance!

Stones would be useless for buses, they are too heavy. If the inbound track had stones they would be ruined in a years time. This why it is tarmaced and no you weren't mistaking :).

It does look a bit wrong though.

The road running sections are to be left as tarmac, that is sections of road that run along side the city centre track but not actually carrying lines. Also as people will notice the sections where motor vehicles run where track is present the track has be reinforced with a dark coloured concrete to each side of the track itself.In effect to help when motor vehicles are travelling over the top. I agree the road surface does look patchy especially down towards the direction of St.Peters Square opposite the peace gardens.
Maybe the contractors just had to make good the parts that were not carrying track but were affected by the work.

an earlier post i did

I also mentioned in the earlier post that buses would just knacker any blockwork used especially the double deckers. Yes there are points on Mosley street where buses cross but they will not be travelling over any vast length of the new granite surface.
The tarmac on Mosley street is on the one way section where the buses travel up to Piccadilly gardens. Someone earlier pointed out they felt it didn't look good having tarmac on one side and the block work on the other. Think had buses been travelling in both directions down that street there may have been tarmac used on both sides.
I hope the problem on the bend near Abbey bank is finally sorted as there always was a good pool of water there before the work started.
On checking York street,Charlotte street and Nicholas street cross roads are solid tarmac sections and any blockwork finishes at these points.
Mosley street is weird as that section is now finished and you can walk down the middle of the road without fear of being mowed over by a bus or tram, well for the moment anyway.:nuts:

Steel work going up at depot if no ones already said. Anyone got any links to the depot planning aps? That's if there are any online.

Noticed also today at Piccadilly gardens stop the workmen were getting ready to sink the sub frame foundation into the platform floor ready to take the long shelter. The blockwork is well on at the platform section of track in the Piccadilly station direction.
It also looks like on the opposite side where the track has been realigned that it is all joined up now.

I also mentioned in the earlier post that buses would just knacker any blockwork used especially the double deckers. Yes there are points on Mosley street where buses cross but they will not be travelling over any vast length of the new granite surface.
The tarmac on Mosley street is on the one way section where the buses travel up to Piccadilly gardens. Someone earlier pointed out they felt it didn't look good having tarmac on one side and the block work on the other. Think had buses been travelling in both directions down that street there may have been tarmac used on both sides.
I hope the problem on the bend near Abbey bank is finally sorted as there always was a good pool of water there before the work started.
On checking York street,Charlotte street and Nicholas street cross roads are solid tarmac sections and any blockwork finishes at these points.
Mosley street is weird as that section is now finished and you can walk down the middle of the road without fear of being mowed over by a bus or tram, well for the moment anyway.:nuts:

Buses should be stopped from using Mosley street in my opinion. It and St Peter's Square are much more pleasant even with sections blocked off for the Metrolink work. It would also improve the speed and reliability of the trams. Whilst it has been closed, there has been very little detrimental impact (as far as I have seen) on buses along Portland street.

Buses should be stopped from using Mosley street in my opinion. It and St Peter's Square are much more pleasant even with sections blocked off for the Metrolink work. It would also improve the speed and reliability of the trams. Whilst it has been closed, there has been very little detrimental impact (as far as I have seen) on buses along Portland street.

I drive them fella, and that's not true. There are major delays to services going into piccadilly...lol

Buses should be stopped from using Mosley street in my opinion. It and St Peter's Square are much more pleasant even with sections blocked off for the Metrolink work. It would also improve the speed and reliability of the trams. Whilst it has been closed, there has been very little detrimental impact (as far as I have seen) on buses along Portland street.

there has however been a massive tail back of buses going round the back of the library theatre while mosley street has been shut.

the big question really regarding that area is where to send the buses in the long run that benefits everyone. It's one of the grimest parts of town that area for both people on foot and I suppose bus drivers. Even after the farce was sorted with all the independant bus companies doing the same routes and more or less following each other into there it's still not ideal.
As a city scape it's poor round that area and smacks of best out of a bad job.
Oh yes where do we send all those buses? but ideally it would be better that whole area turned into a public plaza, a form of continuation of the gardens but of course allowing the trams. I know that doesn't solve the problem of where the buses go. There are people out there who are paid vast fortunes to come up with the alternatives.
I'm sure there would be more footfall than ever in those shops if people didn't feel they took their life in their hands on those crossings which are a joke and drivers of buses calling the shots when they decide to stop at the zebra crossings( nothing to do with buses having to keep moving to stop blocking further down) it's a case of the pedestrians are an annoyance and get in the way.True people have literally flung themselves infront of them in the past trying to cross but really it shouldn't have to be like that. The drivers don't really like having to break the momentum once they have just pulled out of their stand to be confronted with a crossing. Really full segregation needs to be sorted.

I drive them fella, and that's not true. There are major delays to services going into piccadilly...lol


Most buses coming into the city centre dont even need to be going into Piccadilly anyway .

the big question really regarding that area is where to send the buses in the long run that benefits everyone. It's one of the grimest parts of town that area for both people on foot and I suppose bus drivers. Even after the farce was sorted with all the independant bus companies doing the same routes and more or less following each other into there it's still not ideal.
As a city scape it's poor round that area and smacks of best out of a bad job.
Oh yes where do we send all those buses? but ideally it would be better that whole area turned into a public plaza, a form of continuation of the gardens but of course allowing the trams. I know that doesn't solve the problem of where the buses go. There are people out there who are paid vast fortunes to come up with the alternatives.
I'm sure there would be more footfall than ever in those shops if people didn't feel they took their life in their hands on those crossings which are a joke and drivers of buses calling the shots when they decide to stop at the zebra crossings( nothing to do with buses having to keep moving to stop blocking further down) it's a case of the pedestrians are an annoyance and get in the way.True people have literally flung themselves infront of them in the past trying to cross but really it shouldn't have to be like that. The drivers don't really like having to break the momentum once they have just pulled out of their stand to be confronted with a crossing. Really full segregation needs to be sorted.

the problem with closing peter street to buses is where do you shunt them all onto? portland street cant handle them all and wherever you move them to is going to suffer from being a bit grim and dangerous. i dont think there is really a solution other than trying to get as many people off buses as possible and onto light rail.

its a shame there isnt room for a wilmslow road spur for the metrolink. if there was and a ban on fallowfield shuttle buses could be put in place then that would solve a large part of the bus problem along that route.

Prehaps the buses could keep going down Peter St nd on out to Salford and beyond? How about having tranport interchange, however, no buses, trams or trains actually terminate at any of them? It would free up capacity hugely!

The Mark Addy (is that just over from Peter St or have I got the wrong bridge?) could be a terminus for some buses. Some continuing onto Salford, others right through to Bolton, Wigan etc.

Just to point out the crossings, such a Booth Street and Charlotte Treet involve tarmc crossings (and yellow boxes) so no non-trams on the stones.

South of the delta is practically finished. Nothing done to Mosley St - clearly do not want to spend money on it incase it is going.

Not in anyway doubting the Gardens will be ready, but if it is not, a direct service may be vailable before the Piccadilly service.

Tram drivers - any word on the Phase 3 trams testing?

Have they been tested in the Collyhurst tunnel yet?

Any word on the remediation works that will take place and the timescale?

Before that Thatcher woman got her mits on the buses, it seemed that any route that started within the Manchester boundary went straight through the city to somewhere else ie East Didsbury to Whitefield 95/96, Southern Cemetery to Levenshulme 94, Sale to Moston 112/113, Chorlton to Waterhead 82, Chorlton to Middleton 81/84 Chorltonville to Alkrington 62/63. They either went via Piccadilly or Cross Street. Buses starting roughly from outside the boundary stopped in the city centre at either Piccadilly, Stevenson Square, Victoria Rail station, Cannon Street, Arndale, Albert Square, Victoria bus station, Greengate, Oxford Road station. So now because GMPTA sold off the buses in north and south, then cut off nearly all the through streets, closed nearly 3/4 of Piccadilly we have this mess. Of course the bus companies will not go into each others areas, who would? It would also not be in the passengers' interests to have cross city services in the way the buses are run at the moment as it would greatly increase their fares. In the north its easier to buy a first week and in the south it is easier to buy a megarider. If you had to buy a system one ticket, it would increase the cost to the south passengers by over £6 a week alone. So the only way forward in my opinion is to have 1 fare system, and there is no power to force that at the moment. The GMPTE is too weak to push it so we have what we have for the time being.

Indeed.

However, the PTE / local authorities do have control over traffic regulations, as such they could remove the bus station at Piccadilly Gardens and enforce a rule whereby buses can only stop there for say 2mins.

They could move the 'terminus' i.e. where fewer regulations exist, to outter parts of the central area, e.g. Mark Addy pub, Ancoats, Fairfield Rd, University etc.

That MAY help.

Indeed.

However, the PTE / local authorities do have control over traffic regulations, as such they could remove the bus station at Piccadilly Gardens and enforce a rule whereby buses can only stop there for say 2mins.

They could move the 'terminus' i.e. where fewer regulations exist, to outter parts of the central area, e.g. Mark Addy pub, Ancoats, Fairfield Rd, University etc.

That MAY help.

True, but you need to have somewhere where the buses can sit for at least 8-10 mins before leaving again. Also if the main stop again for passengers boarding is Piccadilly on the way back out,then a minimum of 5 mins should be allowed as you cannot fill a bus up in 2 minutes, it takes at least 4-5 minutes , so that MAY not be the best solution. There already is 5 minute rule in Piccadilly and it doesn't work due to the delays we have. The other day I pulled into Piccadilly and there were 3 other buses on the stop on a 2 bus stand stop. All were legally there and on time. I would have been the fourth and the stop only holds 2, so I had to use another stop instead, which removed a space from that stop had it been needed. Who is to blame for that?

Thatcher is to blame tbh, no easy solutions, you can see why no other country in the world followed our lead with f*ing up the buses.

Indeed, it is not an easy one, and when we consider removing the buses from Mosley St, Piccadilly or infact anywhere, we must always remember that the buses carry miles more passengers than the trams, and that will always be the case no matter how many lines we build.

Making the bus passngers jounrey better, it could be argued, is more important than Metrolink improvements. It is just totally out of the hands of the local authorities - something this Labour government should hang it's head in shame about!

If they got rid of the pay the driver system that would speed up boarding problems massively, it would mean routes are quicker so bus companies need fewer buses to run the same capacity and it means the driver can just drive. This would solve much of the currrent problems.

People also want a direct journey they don't want to be faffing about changing onto trams.

Had a thought whilst on the tube this morning.

Those questioning the two years to convert the Oldham loop - I suspect the East London line conversion to heavy rail is taking at least, if not longer than that, given the bottomless pot of cash down here for transport it says a lot.

Steel work going up at depot if no ones already said. Anyone got any links to the depot planning aps? That's if there are any online.

I did, here's the photo, as promised.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2456/4012497702_8293a9f241_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/alr1970/4012497702/)

Andrew

I reckon the problem is because all bus routes seem lead to Piccadilly.
Why is this so ?? Do all tube lines end up at kings Cross ?? No of course they don’t - that would be a stupid idea .. instead tube lines go all over the place - across the city, up and down the city, round the city.
If they did all end up at the same place - ie a “star” system you’d end up with a fucking horrible mess in the middle - Only a complete moron would come up with that solution.... for busses, tubes, trains or anything else. ... oh wait a minute. Who’s in charge ??

Why not have main strategic bus routes going through and across and round the city with different colours (akin to tube lines) to spread the load a bit ??
You could then have helpful tube style maps to help people to get around.

Also, there’s no reason on earth why it should take 4-5 minutes to fill a bus .. unless of course you make everyone use cash - or have a stupid system where each bus co has their own pass scheme, or have busses with only one set of doors .... oh... hang on.

The reason every (nearly anyway) bus goes to Piccadilly I becaue the bus companies want to.

Absolutely nothing whatsoever tht the PTE can do about it. The bus companies must deem it the most profitable option.

If you wanted (and had the cash) to run 300 buses an hour from Hulme to Piccadilly there is nothing whatsoever anyone could do to stop you filling the roads and the bu station up.

All thnk to Maggie and her deregulation.

I'm not a fan of thatcher. i dont think many people outside of the home counties are. but the basic premise of tory policy in the 80s was that the state owned too much infrastructure. when things are state run they have a tendency to lean towards providing a service, rather than making a profit.

the problem with the economy at the time was that britain still had not properly recovered from the second world war by the 80s. we had an industry base that was no longer competitive and a large amount of publicly owned stuff that wasnt making any money either.

the tories sold all this stuff off so that they could raise capital for retooling the economy for a post industrial era. this regenerated the economy and in some respects raised the standards of living a great deal in this country.

the downside however is that all that nice publicly owned, publicly focused stuff that allowed us to pay substantially less for utilities and transport (relative to wages at the time) is now all privately owned and aimed at making maximum profit.

thats why thatcher deregulated the buses. she didnt have a hope of selling them off while they had to run routes that some people would find really useful but that in reality not enough people rode on. i grew up in flixton and up until deregulation you could get the 14,15,250,251,252,253,254,255,256,257,258 and 259 number buses that all ran vaguely similar routes. The only problem was that there was hardly ever anyone on them.

now after deregulation all that remains of those buses is 15,253,255 and 256. The number of people in the area within 5 minutes of a bus stop has definitely dropped and so i would imagine has the frequency.

times have changed a lot since then and with the way things are going public transport ridership continues to rise and an increased number of bus routes and frequencies may be required in the short term to cope with that. but as someone mentioned earlier there is now much less capacity to handle buses in the city centre after all the redevelopment work that has gone on.

i also agree that moving the terminus of routes to somewhere slightly outside the city centre isnt going to work if most people continue to board and have to pay cash in piccadilly.

road traffic has taken a bit of dip this year because of the recession but if the long term trend is that it will continue to rise it has already been said it will reach a point where it will start to adversely affect the local economy. GMPTE has the chance to try and preempt some of that by doing things like introducing oystercard type passes and banning people from paying in cash (stuff that isnt going to require digging up more roads) but as mentioned above they dont seem to have the will to do it.

That's not about GMPTE not having the will but not having the resources and not having the right.

I think what Manchester lacks is a civil society that is willing to advocate for the services that Mancunians need. The councils largely seem to do their jobs adequately, but operate rather as FDR was reputed to have said "you've convinced me, now make me do it". They know what they need to do, but without popular advocacy and support for hard choices they won't or can't act.

There is an appetite in the city for better public transport, a nicer environment, more sutainable living etc. but people are trapped into the current mode of living and unwilling to trust local government to effectively manage the transformation. Partly that's because our political system is seen as closed and secretive and reform (such as a GM Mayor) would probably help in terms of accountability, but partly it's because while the wider city exists as a economic community it doesn't exist as a social or cultural one.

The reason every (nearly anyway) bus goes to Piccadilly I becaue the bus companies want to.

Absolutely nothing whatsoever tht the PTE can do about it. The bus companies must deem it the most profitable option.

If you wanted (and had the cash) to run 300 buses an hour from Hulme to Piccadilly there is nothing whatsoever anyone could do to stop you filling the roads and the bu station up.

All thnk to Maggie and her deregulation.

So if there’s nothing the PTE can do about it ... it kind of begs the question “what exactly do they do ??” Did GMPTE not change it’s name recently to GMITE recently .. with the “I” standing for Integrated ?? ... if they have bugger all control over the busses, that seems like a bit of a sick joke ... are they taking the piss ??

Really - Some one needs to get a grip... it’s no good blaming Thatcher - that was 23 years ago .. the blame lies rather closer to home I feel.

So if there’s nothing the PTE can do about it ... it kind of begs the question “what exactly do they do ??” Did GMPTE not change it’s name recently to GMITE recently .. with the “I” standing for Integrated ?? ... if they have bugger all control over the busses, that seems like a bit of a sick joke ... are they taking the piss ??

Really - Some one needs to get a grip... it’s no good blaming Thatcher - that was 23 years ago .. the blame lies rather closer to home I feel.

Well what are you going to do about it then?

So if there’s nothing the PTE can do about it ... it kind of begs the question “what exactly do they do ??” Did GMPTE not change it’s name recently to GMITE recently .. with the “I” standing for Integrated ?? ... if they have bugger all control over the busses, that seems like a bit of a sick joke ... are they taking the piss ??

Really - Some one needs to get a grip... it’s no good blaming Thatcher - that was 23 years ago .. the blame lies rather closer to home I feel.

Not entirely accurate: The GMPTA (the representatives of the 10 GM councils) changed its name to GMITA. GMPTE (the executive, ie the bit that allocates the money and which employs people to administer the public transport system) remains. The rules governing local bus services (outside London) were changed slightly last year. Up until that point PTEs had very little power to regulated bus services - somebody can fill the blanks here on this. GMPTE/ITA are still looking into putting in place an Oyster Card system, but it is probably still quite difficult to get First and Stagecoach to cooperate fully...
PS this is probably slightly off-thread from the Metrolink Extension / Construction topic and probably would sit better in some other (existing) forum.

Maybe we can have a Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Thread and the posts on this topic moved into it? Or maybe just into the Non-Metrolink thread? Comdot, any ideas?

Not entirely accurate: The GMPTA (the representatives of the 10 GM councils) changed its name to GMITA. GMPTE (the executive, ie the bit that allocates the money and which employs people to administer the public transport system) remains. The rules governing local bus services (outside London) were changed slightly last year. Up until that point PTEs had very little power to regulated bus services - somebody can fill the blanks here on this. GMPTE/ITA are still looking into putting in place an Oyster Card system, but it is probably still quite difficult to get First and Stagecoach to cooperate fully...
PS this is probably slightly off-thread from the Metrolink Extension / Construction topic and probably would sit better in some other (existing) forum.

ok. to tie the all of the above back into something metrolink related, improving the bus network is only going to a short term measure. the long term solution is going to involve getting as much transport off the roads as possible, buses or otherwise.

SOMtastic - the ITA / PTE provide services that the market cannot deliver, nothing more, nothing less.

You seem to be well off beam with your understanding of what they are tasked with, and what powers that they hold.

As Isaac once put very well.

The PTE are essentially social services for the transport in Greater Manchester...

http://www.gmpte.com/corporate/

Corporate
Throughout Great Britain, with the exception of Greater London, public transport is operated by commercial companies who decide what services to run and what fares to charge. However, these services do not always meet the social needs of the community as a whole.

GMPTE's role in Public Transport

Independent from the Authority, GMPTE carries out their policies either by providing and managing facilities itself or by contracting with bus, tram and train operators to provide them. GMPTE does not actually run buses, trams or trains; its role and functions can be summarized as follows:

•GMPTE pays for bus services which are not provided commercially by bus operators.
•GMPTE owns bus stations, shelters and stops in Greater Manchester and works to ensure all the information you'll see there is correct.
•GMPTE subsidises concessionary fares and free travel facilities on buses throughout the region, including paying to keep non-profitable services running where you need them most.
•GMPTE subsidises concessionary fares and free travel facilities on buses throughout the region, including paying to keep non-profitable services running where you need them most.
•GMPTE carries out the policies of Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority to ensure that local rail services meet local travel needs.
•GMPTE owns the innovative and successful Metrolink system which carries over 19 million passengers a year.
•GMPTE actively campaigns to promote public transport in Greater Manchester, to improve the environment and cut congestion.
Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority

Integrated Transport Authorities are responsible for providing the services and facilities which the market does not provide in large conurbations. Elsewhere this responsibility is undertaken by local County Councils.

The County of Greater Manchester has an Integrated Transport Authority. It is located in the North West of England and consists of ten District Councils; Bolton, Bury, Manchester, Oldham, Rochdale, Salford, Stockport, Tameside, Trafford and Wigan.

The District Council in each of these areas contributes finance from local taxes and appoints local councillors to the Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority to represent their district. The Authority decides on public transport policy for the county and provides the funds for GMPTE to carry out these policies. GMPTE is the trading name of the county's Passenger Transport Executive whose role is to carry out these policies.


They also have ridiculously limited funds, every penny of which that they want to spend needs to be approved by Whitehall.

Well what are you going to do about it then?


There’s the rub. Not much I can do really - I’m reduced to spitting my dummy out in frustration on a skyscraper forum !
We all know what the solution is, and we all know that is never going to be instigated by local politicians - of any flavour. The public are jaded and apathetic, so change can only really come from central government in a slightly paradoxical edict .... you WILL have devolved power - like it or not.
So what can I do ?? vote for the bunch I think most likely to sort it out.

Anyway - off topic - I apologise.

Re tarmac / paving .... I Walk past it every day and assumed they’d ran out of money or time.
No idea it was supposed to look like it ... Looks bloody awful.

SOMtastic - the ITA / PTE provide services that the market cannot deliver, nothing more, nothing less.

You seem to be well off beam with your understanding of what they are tasked with, and what powers that they hold.

I’m well aware of the limited nature of the PTE/A powers, and budgets. I feel for them - it must feel like a futile existence sometimes.
My criticism is aimed at those who over the past 23 years have failed completely to address the problem ... the 10 local councils. Their failure to get their act together, speak with one voice, and to regain the powers that are so obviously required is verging on criminal.

Out of interest, have you not spotted AGMA, that has been trying hard than anywhere else in the country to get the powers back?

There are dozens and dozens of speaches from local politicans demanding that the powers be handed back down to them, it is Whitehall that has blocked them.

The fact that our MAA gives us more power in Manchester than any other area in the country has, other than London shows just how well they have done!

I did, here's the photo, as promised.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2456/4012497702_8293a9f241_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/alr1970/4012497702/)

Andrew

Cheers. Its grown alot bigger since that was taken. What ever it is, its flying up.

Maybe we can have a Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Thread and the posts on this topic moved into it? Or maybe just into the Non-Metrolink thread? Comdot, any ideas?

I was thinking seperation of train and Bus in the non-metrolink transport would be useful as well, Something like "Metrolink", "Greater Manchester Rail", "GM Buses". the ITA/future usually is covered in other threads though perhaps a combined thread "Greater Manchester Transport Strategy" or "Greater Manchester Transport Governance" would tidy things up.

Out of interest, have you not spotted AGMA, that has been trying hard than anywhere else in the country to get the powers back?

There are dozens and dozens of speaches from local politicans demanding that the powers be handed back down to them, it is Whitehall that has blocked them.

The fact that our MAA gives us more power in Manchester than any other area in the country has, other than London shows just how well they have done!

I don’t really give a monkeys about what the rest of the country has been up to.
I do hope you’re right though , I hope the recent MAA gives us more powers, and I hope those powers are put to good use.
However, I’ve heard an awful lot of talking and not a great deal of doing, so I’ll reserve judgment for now.
I’ll diarise this day next year. If things have changed significantly from now, I’ll cheerfully post a video of me eating some sort of headwear.

oh heck can of worms been opened here.think people have got bees in their bonet with a few axes to grind.It's like someone pointed out earlier can the most recent topic of conversation be put onto a seperate thread?
Nice pic arl1970. great to see some more on progress of the oOld Trafford depot.
I on'y go past there on a tram not very often so it would be good to see pictures of the struture going up.

Cheers. Its grown alot bigger since that was taken. What ever it is, its flying up.

That's quick, I only took it on Tuesday afternoon.

Andrew

Judging by the size of it, I think that it is a tram-wash.

The poles for the overhead wires are up now on the road edge at Piccadilly Gardens. Lets see how long they last before getting pranged...lol

http://i36.tinypic.com/5x6io3.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/xm0ay1.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/2z8njg2.jpg

http://i37.tinypic.com/2ag5i1f.jpg

I have just been reading another thread on the forum..Subways and Urban transport, there are some postings re Manchester Metro, but as every other major city is banging on about their new metros etc should we not? does anyone have any pics/updates they feel like posting over there.

Great capturing of the tarmacing with the replacement bus in the background!

Metrolink to Droylsden update
Work to prepare for the arrival of Metrolink in Droylsden is continuing apace – with construction of the new tram line down Ashton New Road due to start later this month.


GMPTE is overseeing a £600m expansion of the Metrolink network which will take trams from East Manchester to Droylsden by spring 2012. People will be able to find out more about the project at a series of drop-in events next week.


MPact-Thales – the construction team behind the project – will begin building the Clayton section of the new line later this month but other work is already taking place in several areas to divert utilities along the route.


As a result, Ashton New Road will be reduced to one lane until mid November. Entrances to Turner Street and Canberra Street will close in November until the end of the year, and this will be followed with further work at junctions with Clayton Street and Dargai Street.


The utility works will also affect the following roads over coming weeks and months:


Manchester Road (between Scott Road and Market Street);
Greenside Lane;
Canal Street & Craven Street;
Davenport Street (between Manor Road and Manchester Road);
Manchester Road & Cemetery Road junction;
Edge Lane (from the Manchester Road junction up to Bailey Street);
Ralph Street;
Howgill Street & Bailey Street;
Croft Street;
Eccleshall Road.
You can also view the Roadworks list which is updated weekly.

MPact-Thales will start works to build the tramway along Ashton New Road later this month, starting near Clayton Lane and heading east.


Philip Purdy, GMPTE’s Metrolink Director, said: “The project is really beginning to grow and there are several pockets of work being carried out across the route as we pave the way for the new tram line to be built.


“We are due to start the initial phases of construction work on the first street-running section later this month, which is a big landmark for us, but there is still a lot utility work to be done in the meantime.


“I’d encourage anyone with an interest in this major project – particularly those living nearby – to go along to one of the drop-in events being held next week, speak to the team and find out more about the work we are doing.”


Letters have been sent to almost 9,000 homes and businesses along the route to inform them of the work. People will also be able to find out about the project – and speak to officials from GMPTE and MPact-Thales – at the following drop-in events:


Tuesday 20 October, from 4.45pm to 7.30pm, Manchester Road Primary School, Manchester Road, Droylsden;
Wednesday 21 October, from 4.30pm to 7.30pm, St Cross Church, Ashton New Road, Manchester; and,
Thursday 22 October, from 4.30pm to 7.30pm, at Droylsden Library, Manchester Road, Droylsden.
The new Metrolink line will run through the heart of East Manchester, mostly along existing streets, to Droylsden. The four-mile extension will include eight new stops and will run past the City of Manchester stadium and the Velodrome.




From:
http://www.tameside.gov.uk/pressreleases/metrolinkupdate

Road works are begiining to be a pain now!


BTW great pics of the updated St Peters Square

Track update
http://i33.tinypic.com/ib9o2g.jpg

Plus, has anyone got a view on the new canopies at the St. Pete's Sq. Metrolink stop? I'm a little underwhelmed by them and think GMPTE could have done a whole lot better.

It is true that the new shelters at St Peter's seem rather inadequate, but I've recently seen the plans for the Piccadilly Gardens shelters in GMPTE (they have a metrolink display in the foyer area) and at least they stretch the whole length of the platform and look much more weather and windproof. Everyone whows that when it rains in Manchester, its horizontal and not vertical!

I agree seasoned. I think that GMPTE have also shelled out for better MediaCity canopies as well, and from what I've seen are going to look really good. These just look a little tinpot and cheap.

I agree seasoned. I think that GMPTE have also shelled out for better MediaCity canopies as well, and from what I've seen are going to look really good. These just look a little tinpot and cheap.

Maybe they will get at least partially redone in 5 years time when St Peters Square is redone following the Lib walks, Elizabeth house etc

The half-tarmacked Mosley Street actually looks a lot better than I had imagined.

I can kind of understand less substantial shelters in St. Peters Square given the need to try and not spoil the views. That said the plans put forward for many other (busy) stations indicate having similar shelters on their platforms too. Of all places in the country I would have thought the GMPTE would have understood the need for comprehensive shelters to ensure people use the Metrolink!

Maybe they will get at least partially redone in 5 years time when St Peters Square is redone following the Lib walks, Elizabeth house etc

I've been wondering about that. I can't imagine the rebuilding of the square will force substantial work on the Metrolink again surely?

I've been wondering about that. I can't imagine the rebuilding of the square will force substantial work on the Metrolink again surely?

There is the intention to create a transport interchange as part of the cross-city bus thingy!

There is the intention to create a transport interchange as part of the cross-city bus thingy!

I thought that was between GMEX stop and Deansgate Station or did I read it totally wrong? :? I don't believe it was talking about substantial changes to the Metrolink here either.

I'm pretty sure Whitmore will be delighted with the stirling way St Peter's has turned out. I however worry for the other stations and also fear that the pinnicle of asthetics will peak at Piccadilly gardens. I dont think anything further will top Central Park for design/functionality etc. Oh, and I've also heard that GMPTE are aiming for work to be completed 24 hours early, obviously to make up for the events of a couple of weeks ago. But I think we can write off Picc Gardens and Picc Station being completed as some track work has only just started outside Picc Place.

The half-tarmacked Mosley Street actually looks a lot better than I had imagined.


Why is it half tarmacked? Cost???

For the buses to use from St Peters Square direction.

Ooops! wrong forum!

I thought that was between GMEX stop and Deansgate Station or did I read it totally wrong? :? I don't believe it was talking about substantial changes to the Metrolink here either.

Yeah the new interchange that has been suggested appears to be between GMEX/Deansgate Station, one of 'international' standard, will be interesting to see what exactly they propose, details will probably emerge with the 2CC consultation.

Thanks, was thinking I was going mad! :nuts:

Coming back to St. Peters Square you do have to wonder how they are going to work around the Metrolink, as is.

Why is it half tarmacked? Cost???

If you back track on prev days entries I mentioned the fact that those are bus running parts with the track getting some further reinforcing from a slate grey coloured concrete to each side of the track.
The blocks used would just get hammered very quickly with the buses over them.
The pic that's just been added shows the work off quite well and for the moment you can walk down Mosley street unhindered in the middle of the road.

I'm pretty sure Whitmore will be delighted with the stirling way St Peter's has turned out. I however worry for the other stations and also fear that the pinnicle of asthetics will peak at Piccadilly gardens. I dont think anything further will top Central Park for design/functionality etc. Oh, and I've also heard that GMPTE are aiming for work to be completed 24 hours early, obviously to make up for the events of a couple of weeks ago. But I think we can write off Picc Gardens and Picc Station being completed as some track work has only just started outside Picc Place.

Are you not meaning the top of Auytoun street leading up to Portland street?
The bottom end was done the other year with the only work taking place during this work between the buildings at Piccadilly place being the lifting of the tarmac that was put down between the tracks with the same type of blockwork used on Mosley street.
The work is well on and I can see Piccadilly gardens being ready on time.
As someone mentioned the other day the poles have been put running alongside the new realigned track and the forming frame for the long canopy is in place.Very soon they will be back filling the new platform.
There are only odd bits of track to add now such as a section bend near Debenhams towards Victoria and and bend near the Halifax at Piccadilly gardens.All the track is done right up from Victoria and up to Shudehill.
Shudehill is having its finish put between the tracks.
The bollards have been put back where the trams come out at Victoria and also the ones on Balloon street has been put back.
There's two weeks till the reopening and I remember back in the summer when the work was taking place along side GMEX and thinking it's not going to be ready and it was apart from of course the problems further down the track with the cable problems.

I'm pretty sure Whitmore will be delighted with the stirling way St Peter's has turned out. I however worry for the other stations and also fear that the pinnicle of asthetics will peak at Piccadilly gardens. I dont think anything further will top Central Park for design/functionality etc. Oh, and I've also heard that GMPTE are aiming for work to be completed 24 hours early, obviously to make up for the events of a couple of weeks ago. But I think we can write off Picc Gardens and Picc Station being completed as some track work has only just started outside Picc Place.


Now we've heard, Metrolink get ALL the City Centre Lines back on the 26th of this month!! a couple of days testing then it will open for passenger services!

No Bananas though as the Pte had hoped, not been South of the depot yet, testing still ongoing, Drivers still not had any training on them. issues with the roofs leaking on most of them!! Not built to cope with Manchester Rain lol

metman123 - any word on the other tests and how they are progressing?

Any word on what remediation work will be taking place?

other tests are going well! they are still in the progress of clocking up 1000 miles before they can start testing next to rail track, not heard how close they are to completing it, 3001 and 3002 are now going main line to bury for testing after passenger service has finished!

not heard about any remediation works but I suspect once the City Centre is back in operation that a Banana will be towed through the City to check what needs to be done! WATCH THIS SPACE!

Cheers, as I thought when all the 'horror' stories were coming out, in reality no more issues than usual will arise.

Once the initial problems are resolved, no doubt all the bananas will be compatible with the network.

Cheers, as I thought when all the 'horror' stories were coming out, in reality no more issues than usual will arise.

Once the initial problems are resolved, no doubt all the bananas will be compatible with the network.

Agreed. I'm a bit concerned about this leaky roof business though!

Probably ain't the roof that has the leak, more likely the way windows are built into the trams or possibly the way doors hang on the trams.

Any slight mis-alignment and water will get in.

Remember these are all still going to be under warranty. Bombardier are one of the largest tram manufacturers in the world, they will sort this out in no time.

Wow it seems things are going well for a change in Metrolink land :0 I am quite excited about getting the city centre back again :) Just had a week of the buses because my car was in the garage and it made me realise just how much better the Metrolink is.

The thing I am most looking forward to is a tram every 6 minutes again. Also now that the :banana:'s seem to be going well we might see them in the new year.

I am excited :D :nuts:

Queens Depot 1 banana 2 banana 3 banana, 4!!! :lol:
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/metman123/17102009351.jpg

3004, 1005, 3003
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/metman123/17102009352.jpg

3002, 1008
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/metman123/17102009353.jpg

1005,3003
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/metman123/17102009354-1.jpg

3004, 1005
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/metman123/17102009355-1.jpg

1005 looking dated inbetween her New Sisters
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/metman123/17102009356.jpg

Old Trafford Depot Trackwork coming along!
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/metman123/18102009358.jpg

Old Trafford Depot Tram Maintanence shed taking shape
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/metman123/18102009362.jpg

:banana::banana::banana::banana:


hope you like the pictures!!

I cant read the display on 3003, something like "powered by ...... Kiepo" Hope displays clearer in real life.

Excellent pictures Metman. Thanks very much for taking the time to snap and share.

Meanwhile for Edinburgh

Also, I know I posted the link above, but perhaps it's nice to have images of the first Edinburgh tram (now completed) on this construction page:

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs278.snc1/10534_143308307028_108054517028_2797375_952409_n.jpg
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs258.snc1/10534_143308297028_108054517028_2797373_7098197_n.jpg
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs278.snc1/10534_143308302028_108054517028_2797374_2412696_n.jpg
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs278.snc1/10534_143308357028_108054517028_2797381_6522979_n.jpg
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs278.snc1/10534_143308362028_108054517028_2797382_7352530_n.jpg
http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs278.snc1/10534_143308367028_108054517028_2797383_3637702_n.jpg
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs258.snc1/10534_143308392028_108054517028_2797385_1793894_n.jpg
http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs278.snc1/10534_143308317028_108054517028_2797377_928090_n.jpg

The last image shows the sectioning off of a carriage for late night travel. The "251" refers to the tram number- I believe it recognises the 250 trams that have been before on Edinburgh streets.

More photos here: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=114859&id=108054517028

I thought the new trams were getting a some form of circle pattern length ways. Are they not bothering with that now?

God our new trams are the cheapest of cheap after seeing the nice fit out of the Edinburgh ones.

Great shots Metman!

Uklad, ours might well be cheaper but at least we have somewhere our new trams can actually run!

Edinburgh's new trams are off down to London first for testing, because of the massive mess the construction team up there has got its self into. The depot isnt even started yet, the only bit of track is 200m on Princess Street. Anyway I digress

From that picture of the depot it looks like you will be able to go from the Altrincham Line to Chorlton but from the other direction to normal, another triangular junction?

Great shots Metman!

From that picture of the depot it looks like you will be able to go from the Altrincham Line to Chorlton but from the other direction to normal, another triangular junction?

No Local Lad, Old Trafford depot will have a circular track round it so trams can actually turn round in the depot! thats what was shown in that Picture!

Ahh Thanks Metman. So the depot fitters will have somewhere to play, :lol:

I thought the new trams were getting a some form of circle pattern length ways. Are they not bothering with that now?

Yes they are gonna have that before they enter service!

God our new trams are the cheapest of cheap after seeing the nice fit out of the Edinburgh ones.

Think someone mentioned a while ago when I said that the Nottingham trams and Croydon trams looked better/nicer than our new ones it was pointed out that ours have been bought with the money available.
Not quite bargain basement jobs but relatively off the shelf jobs.

The Edinburgh ones are custom spec, but another reason is their almost twice as long as Metrolinks trams and designed for a higher capacity whilst running every 5 minutes. Its more true tram running in crowded streets than the light rail of metrolink.

I cant read the display on 3003, something like "powered by ...... Kiepo" Hope displays clearer in real life.

Will be.

Those blinds are meant to be one font deep, not two.

They will have one word on them in the future, not a short sentance.

Their only 5 pixels tall! Sure their brighter but when you compare them to the old ones you can see they have less

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa318/metman123/17102009353.jpg

The old ones that never work.

I really do think this is another case of worrying about nothing.

Once they enter service this will not be an issue - you will clearly be able to differentiate between Airport and Piccadilly.

Seems to be fine in Germany...

http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/coilognesubway.jpg

Their not the same displays, notice the colour, the lack of black lines through the text, and the greater text clarity, I think those ones in Germany are about 10 pixels tall.

Also when compared to a high quality display:

http://www.asal.com.hk/images/given/KCR%20LRT%20PH3%20DDS.jpg

Though to be fair to the Metrolink each "pixel" is actually 3x3 leds and each of those is indvidually controlled to better define the letters, it just really doesnt work very well.

You are worrying unnecessarily.

Each 'pixel' as you describe it is made up of several small pixels on the Metrolink version.

Bear in mind there is a shadow of something right across blind in the photo you have in posted.

See you have editted - the black line through the text is a shadow.

The system Metrolink sports is a cheap hybrid system, it fives the illusion of high clarity due to number of pixels but actually has a really cheap controller that can only display about 5 pixels high. the trick is each letter is broken up into these 3x3 pixel grids which can be any combination of the 3x3 lit or unlit, e.g.

Example Y 3 pixels wide and two pixels high under metrolinks LCD system

.. ..
.. ..
.. ... ..
...
...
...

same Y under a higher quality control board, same number of pixels



... ...
.. ..
.......
...
...

So if for example the led height is 15 a high quality controller they would be rendered complete using the max avaible leds but in the cheaper metrolink system the letters are rendered in preset 3x3 blocks.

I dont really know how to explain it but to say their scrimping considerably on the control electronics for the displays.


the 2nd from top black line that goes 3/4 the way across is a shadow, the other 4 black lines are the gaps in the lcd display, 5 rows of 3x3 pixels.

The system Metrolink sports is a cheap hybrid system, it fives the illusion of high clarity due to number of pixels but actually has a really cheap controller that can only display about 5 pixels high. the trick is each letter is broken up into these 3x3 pixel grids which can be any combination of the 3x3 lit or unlit, e.g.

... ..
. . ...
... ...

So if for example the led height is 15 a high quality controller they would be rendered complete using the max avaible leds but in the cheaper metrolink system the letters are rendered in preset 3x3 blocks.

I dont really know how to explain it but to say their scrimping considerably on the control electronics for the displays.


the 2nd from top black line that goes 3/4 the way across is a shadow, the other 4 black lines are the gaps in the lcd display, 5 rows of 3x3 pixels.

Indeed the system is very cheap, we all know why.

If this is something that concerns you then I suggest you wait until they are running to see what they are like.

This type of blind is used across the world, it will serve the task it is designed too without being massively over spec'd (and over priced).

It'll meet all rules and regs, people will see them as a vast improvement on the current equivilent and perform the service they are meant to perform.

http://railforthevalley.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/grenoble_tram1_1920.jpg

Grenoble seem to use them.

Seem to do the job to me.

In fact, Barcelona trams http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/Tram-Barcelona/Tram19-03-Temp_Terminus_T3.jpg blinds are miles worse than what we are getting, yet from experience they do the job just fine.