Excellent pictures as always Johnny!!!

Question.... Is it just me or do the wires look lower than those at Piccadilly undercroft? And in the centre of the bridge doesn't the wire look like it's sagging down, which has a risk of being snagged & ripped down by a passing tram, especially in hot weather? Quite a big gap - it looks like they missed out a O/H line support.
I think it's the angle of view playing tricks on your eyes. The larger spacing in the centre of the bridge will be where the line runs straight as it makes it's diagonal cross over the Network Rail lines below. They are closer together at each end because the line is curving on the approach ramps. I agree that the wires look very low though, but I am sure the engineers have their measurements right!

What will be the route availability of Newton Heath - Mumps?

Is a final loco hauled special possible, perhaps with a class 20? :happy:

Would the structure gauge be an issue? :nuts:

Loving the pictures of trams on the ORL. Thanks Johnny!

I think the plan for 3b is for 35tph along the Cornbrook Viaduct. Mosley Street has a capacity of only 25tph currently and apparently 30tph with modifications, hence 2CC.

However, even with only the Chorlton line open, the block signalling on the Cornbrook viaduct is currently at capacity and needs replacing. You said that block signalling can cope with higher frequency on Thameslink - but I doubt that was cheap, in fact I suspect that as signalling systems go it was very expensive.

Trams accelerate/brake much quicker than trains, so a much cheaper signalling system that can be used on Metrolink is to use LoS and rely on drivers to keep the distance. TMS seems to be a more passive signalling system, which only has signals to stop collisions at the junctions. Presumably it will also have ways of keeping trams evenly spaced and informing passengers of when the next tram will arrive. If it ever works that is ...

That's what gets me, Freel said your not allowed a mix of block signalling and LOS but that what you say TMS actually is?

Thameslink Core resignalling was expensive for various reasons and the need to accommodate ATO system (that's not been designed after works are complete let alone when designed). That and all the extra irk unique to Thameslink has pushed the price sky high. I'm sure a cheaper version could be done.

What's the acceleration of the M5000 tram?

Question.... Is it just me or do the wires look lower than those at Piccadilly undercroft? And in the centre of the bridge doesn't the wire look like it's sagging down, which has a risk of being snagged & ripped down by a passing tram, especially in hot weather? Quite a big gap - it looks like they missed out a O/H line support.


I wouldn't trust those pics for accuracy x666, as they have been zoomed such a lot - but despite my technical 'no sé nada' I think I can have a stab at answering this question!

- I think the arrangement here is of the catenary type, used on the segregated or railway type sections, where speeds are higher. There are two wires above each other, the top one is allowed to droop according to gravity, and the lower one, the live running wire, is kept level by having droppers of varying lengths to counteract the effect of the 'droop'.

If I got that right it will be another first for to-day!

I would also hazard this suggestion: If they had not gone 100 per cent down the road of Line-of-Sight - (18 months ago Mr Purdy was very, very, very keen on it, even at the expense of slowing average line speed due to places like Hagside level crossing) - they would almost certainly by now have reduced the length of the existing signalling 'blocks' drastically, even at conflicting junctions (which can be further protected by 'distant' signals to reduce approach speeds). This would surely have happened earlier had all the eggs not been in the LOS basket for the last few years.

But reading between the lines, I am wondering now whether some kind of a compromise like this might be on the cards again. Talk of alternatives behind the scenes seems to chime in with the ambiguities in Mr Purdy's recent Committee Report, where he changes from plural to singular in terms of 'exploring alternative solutions' to 'a solution'.

We will see, but Hallelujah that something at least is visibly happening on the ground again! I guess we are now at a similar stage to almost 12 months ago, when tester bananas were running to St Werburgh out of the depot only, prior to commissioning of the junction which permitted full timetable testing right across Manchester.

Hopefully this weekend will provide a similar provision at Irk Valley . . . . ?

Exciting times.
:banana::banana::banana:

How does 'Line of Sight' work in fog ?

Same as in dark tunnels.

With lights.

I think.

How does 'Line of Sight' work in fog ?

Same as driving - more slowly!

Disappointed, I envisaged the return of detonators:lol:

How does 'Line of Sight' work in fog ?

The same way as driving a car or bus. The driver drives according to the conditions.

Great pictures of the trams on test on the ORL, Mr. de Rivative


I have often thought the same thing...surely of the platform at CRB s clear then why cant the next ram be allowed through?

This may be a problem around Newhey, possibly!

Exciting times.
:banana::banana::banana:

I'm so glad that you managed to capture the action Johnny - It's a good job people like you have the patience and determination to achieve what they want. Top man!!

That's what gets me, Freel said your not allowed a mix of block signalling and LOS but that what you say TMS actually is?

Thameslink Core resignalling was expensive for various reasons and the need to accommodate ATO system (that's not been designed after works are complete let alone when designed). That and all the extra irk unique to Thameslink has pushed the price sky high. I'm sure a cheaper version could be done.

What's the acceleration of the M5000 tram?

What I said was that HMRI had indicated that the combination of block signalling and LOS was undesirable and that they would prefer to bring Metrolink into line with the other UK systems. TfGM had always intended Phase 3 to be fully LOS. These factors have driven the changeover. Whilst some parties may believe that an alternative could be implemented in reality this would introduce a massive delay for design and procurement.

I agree that block signalling can cope with very close headways but at a high cost which is not compatible with a tramway. Such systems are ideal for high capacity systems such as LUL or as you state Thameslink but cannot be justified for a tramway. LOS is the right way for a tramway, it is the specific combination of system components that seem to be taxing the engineers right now.

Excellent pictures as always Johnny!!!

Question.... Is it just me or do the wires look lower than those at Piccadilly undercroft? And in the centre of the bridge doesn't the wire look like it's sagging down, which has a risk of being snagged & ripped down by a passing tram, especially in hot weather? Quite a big gap - it looks like they missed out a O/H line support.

The wires won't sag they are autotensioned to compensate for temperature changes. They are lower than the normal height but not excessively so.

I guess we are now at a similar stage to almost 12 months ago, when tester bananas were running to St Werburgh out of the depot only, prior to commissioning of the junction which permitted full timetable testing right across Manchester.

Hopefully this weekend will provide a similar provision at Irk Valley . . . . ?

Exciting times.
:banana::banana::banana:

Let's hope so. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, how long before the actual opening do we think TfGM will make a formal announcement? I can understand them being cautious given the bad press they've had in Oldham, but presumably they'll want to give some advance notice.

Can anyone remember what happened with the St. Werby's opening. I hadn't found this forum then!

Oh, and, of course, congratulations on the excellent pics as ever, Johnny.

Was announced a day or so before the opening, nothing big.

To Joe Public they were just running one day with passengers on them.

Let's hope so. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, how long before the actual opening do we think TfGM will make a formal announcement? I can understand them being cautious given the bad press they've had in Oldham, but presumably they'll want to give some advance notice.

Can anyone remember what happened with the St. Werby's opening. I hadn't found this forum then!

Oh, and, of course, congratulations on the excellent pics as ever, Johnny.

I don't think there WAS a formal advance notice was there...? We found out from one of the drivers who frequents these pages!

Let's hope so. Just to satisfy my own curiosity, how long before the actual opening do we think TfGM will make a formal announcement? I can understand them being cautious given the bad press they've had in Oldham, but presumably they'll want to give some advance notice.

Can anyone remember what happened with the St. Werby's opening. I hadn't found this forum then!

Oh, and, of course, congratulations on the excellent pics as ever, Johnny.

It kept maybe opening, then not opening, then might in a few days, then possibly next week, then in the middle of the next week, then it finally opened but hardly anyone knew about it.

Exactly the same as mediacity. Big Bang? Ha! Not.

I don't think there WAS a formal advance notice was there...? We found out from one of the drivers who frequents these pages!

Correct, one day passengers could buy tickets and ride on the tram.

It kept maybe opening, then not opening, then might in a few days, then possibly next week, then in the middle of the next week, then it finally opened but hardly anyone knew about it.

Exactly the same as mediacity. Big Bang? Ha! Not.

Hardly a surprise given the problems.

It was announced on the metrolink website the day before it opened. In the days after the control room was making periodic announcements to tell people that it was open. There was also messages on the ticket machines and the new maps.

It'll be the same for the Oldham line. They won't announce the opening until the very last minute. Probably wouldn't want to announce it a week or so in advance just in case something went wrong last minute.

It kept maybe opening, then not opening, then might in a few days, then possibly next week, then in the middle of the next week, then it finally opened but hardly anyone knew about it.

Then wasn't it shut down for a day just after it opened because some scrotes knicked some cable?

couple of hours I think it was, they fixed it pretty quick.

Nice pics of newton heath johnny d.:banana::banana:
I`m i the only one that noticed the pacer in front of the workshops had only one car?

What I said was that HMRI had indicated that the combination of block signalling and LOS was undesirable and that they would prefer to bring Metrolink into line with the other UK systems. TfGM had always intended Phase 3 to be fully LOS. These factors have driven the changeover. Whilst some parties may believe that an alternative could be implemented in reality this would introduce a massive delay for design and procurement.

I agree that block signalling can cope with very close headways but at a high cost which is not compatible with a tramway. Such systems are ideal for high capacity systems such as LUL or as you state Thameslink but cannot be justified for a tramway. LOS is the right way for a tramway, it is the specific combination of system components that seem to be taxing the engineers right now.

Does seems to be taxing them right now. As you say it's the combination of components that's the issue. Perhaps this re-scoping will be moving some components to simplify the system in the long term?

I suppose official word will reach us one way or the other soon enough. However you mention massive delay for an alternative, not sure I agree on that. TfGM have already stated they are giving TMS a little more time before exploring this alternative solution. I would suggest this alternative solution isn't unknown and they have a concept of what to do, just the full costings haven't been looked into just yet, but will be soon unless TMS starts working correctly now.

Does seems to be taxing them right now. As you say it's the combination of components that's the issue. Perhaps this re-scoping will be moving some components to simplify the system in the long term?

I suppose official word will reach us one way or the other soon enough. However you mention massive delay for an alternative, not sure I agree on that. TfGM have already stated they are giving TMS a little more time before exploring this alternative solution. I would suggest this alternative solution isn't unknown and they have a concept of what to do, just the full costings haven't been looked into just yet, but will be soon unless TMS starts working correctly now.

They may be looking at a solution right now but until a contract is signed there will be no design. Only once a contract is signed will a detailed design be produced by the chosen contractor. The lead time for that and procurement of all the hardware and installation and testing resources is around 2 years. Signalling testing resource in particular is scarce. Lets hope it doesn't get that far.

As for signalling...... the ones who know will tell me off for this.

If you are on a tram coming from Eccles that gets held before Cornbrook, you have to wait till the Altrincham one comes up, leaves, then goes through onto the birdcage before you get the green to go. So you are basically 3 signals behind and nearly a mile away.
So why can the current signalling meantime not be altered so that when a tram leaves Cornbrook it immediately clears allowing the waiting one through and up into the platform. The preceding tram will already be at Deansgate by then and have gone past another 3 signals. Even if the light before Cornbrook changes to yellow it will warn the driver to be on the lookout ready to stop, although he won't need to because he'll have already been watching.
Just a thought. Go on the crucify me.

The problem at Cornbrook is related to the fact that the current signalling through the stop was designed for through running so a tram leaving the stop must pass just under 200 metres beyond the signal (135) at the end of the inbound platform before either 131 on the Altrincham Line or 383 on the Eccles Line can clear. This is so that should a following tram pass either of those signals and enter the stop then accidentally pass 135 at stop the ATS will bring it to a halt before it can collide with the rear of the first tram. In signalling terms its called the overlap of the signal and is a measure to protect against over runs. There was a proposal late in Serco days to provide a fill in signal just north of the Eccles Line points to shorten the section. The outline design was done but in all the rush to sort the new contract it fell by the wayside unfortunately as the cost was nearly quarter of a million.

The point at which the second tram gets its green is not quite as far as you describe but the point is well made. The two signals on the Altrincham and Eccles lines are not 3 aspect either so they don't have a yellow aspect. Metrolink has what are known as repeater signals where sighting is a problem and they show a yellow when the signal which they repeat shows a red but that isn't quite the same as what you describe.

They may be looking at a solution right now but until a contract is signed there will be no design. Only once a contract is signed will a detailed design be produced by the chosen contractor. The lead time for that and procurement of all the hardware and installation and testing resources is around 2 years. Signalling testing resource in particular is scarce. Lets hope it doesn't get that far.

Didn't realise it was around that timescale. If they did do the jump, it would be a damming statement on TMS.

Thanks for the quick answers everyone. I rather suspected that they wouldn't go for a grand opening!

So if TfGM do give up on TMS, assuming a new solution worked straight off the bat, we would be looking at a very restricted service until 2CC was well under construction and everything other than airport is completed.

Not very positive is it?

Imagine the decisions that would need to be made over retrofitting the existing trams etc.

The problem at Cornbrook is related to the fact that the current signalling through the stop was designed for through running so a tram leaving the stop must pass just under 200 metres beyond the signal (135) at the end of the inbound platform before either 131 on the Altrincham Line or 383 on the Eccles Line can clear. This is so that should a following tram pass either of those signals and enter the stop then accidentally pass 135 at stop the ATS will bring it to a halt before it can collide with the rear of the first tram. In signalling terms its called the overlap of the signal and is a measure to protect against over runs. There was a proposal late in Serco days to provide a fill in signal just north of the Eccles Line points to shorten the section. The outline design was done but in all the rush to sort the new contract it fell by the wayside unfortunately as the cost was nearly quarter of a million.

The point at which the second tram gets its green is not quite as far as you describe but the point is well made. The two signals on the Altrincham and Eccles lines are not 3 aspect either so they don't have a yellow aspect. Metrolink has what are known as repeater signals where sighting is a problem and they show a yellow when the signal which they repeat shows a red but that isn't quite the same as what you describe.

okay thanks.... so how about outbound? If a tram leaves Cornbrook bound for say Altrincham and they are all being held back at the birdcage, and let's say the next tram is for mediacity, the Altrincham tram will be going a different way after leaving Cornbrook, so does the signal at the end of the platform not change till that previous tram is nearly at Old Trafford before the mediacity one is allowed into the platform. They aren't going to collide anyway as the points would be set differently. Or are the same distances applied in that case too?

A few days ago the Glasgow Subway was being discussed. This video shows a trip to the depot. At about 7 minutes in it shows the signalling system and the blocks, along with the trains moving along the system. Is this the same as what happens with metrolink? I understand it better having now actually seen it in real life.

Does anybody know whether any new interior maps have been done yet for when the line opens to Oldham, I'm guessing that they will be fitted as and when they know when the line is opening for public use which as has been said isn't too long off now

The Chorlton maps went in the night before the new line opened.

Unless someone works in the same office as they are kept at Queens Rd we won't see them until the day it opens.

okay thanks.... so how about outbound? If a tram leaves Cornbrook bound for say Altrincham and they are all being held back at the birdcage, and let's say the next tram is for mediacity, the Altrincham tram will be going a different way after leaving Cornbrook, so does the signal at the end of the platform not change till that previous tram is nearly at Old Trafford before the mediacity one is allowed into the platform. They aren't going to collide anyway as the points would be set differently. Or are the same distances applied in that case too?

A few days ago the Glasgow Subway was being discussed. This video shows a trip to the depot. At about 7 minutes in it shows the signalling system and the blocks, along with the trains moving along the system. Is this the same as what happens with metrolink? I understand it better having now actually seen it in real life.

No outbound the 'overlap' I mentioned can be swung across onto the other route if for instance alternate trams are going to either Pomona or Trafford Bar. This is quite a common method of applying overlaps at diverging junctions to speed up the throughput. I have to admit I hadn't watched the Glasgow video so I can't comment but I would imagine given its age it will be very similar to the current Metrolink system.

Please would anyone tell me what's the minimum length for a HS2 terminus platform. How many platforms would be required for a HS2 terminus?

400m for platform, making station about 500m long and about 75m wide.

Please would anyone tell me what's the minimum length for a HS2 terminus platform. How many platforms would be required for a HS2 terminus?

According to the latest report there will be six trains an hour coming into the Manchester HS2 station: Three from Euston, one from Heathrow and two from Birmingham.

Please would anyone tell me what's the minimum length for a HS2 terminus platform. How many platforms would be required for a HS2 terminus?

For reference Birmingham is supposed to get 4 platform terminus.

Have I missed something..? What's the HS2 link..? :-s

The MUEN just cant resist having pops at metrolink can they.:bash::bash::ohno::ohno:

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/transport/public_transport/s/1492277_delays-across-metrolink-system-after-tram-failure-at-victoria

The MUEN just cant resist having pops at metrolink can they.:bash::bash::ohno::ohno:

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/transport/public_transport/s/1492277_delays-across-metrolink-system-after-tram-failure-at-victoria

Nowt wrong with them reporting things like that in my book.

They also report when there is a car broken down on a motorway causing problems to drivers.

Improved reliability would stop those types of articles. It's more the ones that critisise £60k / year being spent on the TfGM web site that I object to.

What gets me is that you never see them reporting on the progress of the extensions or about the trams that are being tested on the oldham line or just simply something nice instead of being negative all the time.

Unfortunately good news doesn`t sell

Unfortunately good news doesn`t sell

and TfGM are not exactly providing the MEN with loads of press releases about this 'good' news are they?

What gets me is that you never see them reporting on the progress of the extensions or about the trams that are being tested on the oldham line or just simply something nice instead of being negative all the time.

Almost certainly because TfGM are putting out no releases as they too are probably wanting to keep it very hush hush.

TfGM are not going to be wanting people to be getting half the story as to why the delays in opening.

TBH - I bet that Purdy et al would prefer zero coverage whatsoever.

Well the Oldham line testing is continuing today. Went for a jog between the first few stops;
*Victoria to Smedley tunnel portal and just missed a banana passing under outbound.
*Jogged up to Monsall stop, a tram just passed through inbound.
*headed up towards Central Park, and as I turned the corner by the GMP HQ a tram sneaked through outbound.
*(by this time i was a bit tired so...) walked up to Thorpes Rd bridge but didn't see anything there.
*Then continued the jog over to Dean Lane (sorry Newton Heath & Moston stop) and saw a tram stopped at the platform, by the time I went over the other side of the bridge it had run away from me :(
Then on the walk back the heavens opened and I look like a drowned rat at the time of posting this!!

Hi All

I notice the 3025 tram was on Oldham line today testing the line I was going to take some picture too but it start raining quite heavy, Also notice today that near Ashton Under Lynn they look like the start putting track down near Aldi but I don't know if this is new and near Ashton Under lynn tram stop the had Concrete Sleepers near Stop too.

:banana:

The MUEN just cant resist having pops at metrolink can they.:bash::bash::ohno::ohno:

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/transport/public_transport/s/1492277_delays-across-metrolink-system-after-tram-failure-at-victoria

^^^^ I hear that it was M5000 tram that broke down at Victoria?

What gets me is that you never see them reporting on the progress of the extensions or about the trams that are being tested on the oldham line or just simply something nice instead of being negative all the time.

My dear Grandma always said "If you can't think o' summat nice to say about someone, then say summat nasty". Or I think that's what she said.

Hi All

I notice the 3025 tram was on Oldham line today testing the line I was going to take some picture too but it start raining quite heavy, Also notice today that near Ashton Under Lynn they look like the start putting track down near Aldi but I don't know if this is new and near Ashton Under lynn tram stop the had Concrete Sleepers near Stop too.

:banana:

Saw a tram going up and down the line through chadderton yesterday

Do they do the testing of lines at the same time each day or does it vary from day to day. I live literally 30 seconds away from the South Chadderton station, if they testing during the morning i will go down with my camera and try to get some shots

Do they do the testing of lines at the same time each day or does it vary from day to day. I live literally 30 seconds away from the South Chadderton station, if they testing during the morning i will go down with my camera and try to get some shots

Also what's the best place to view the trams on this line?? I've never been up that way before!!

and TfGM are not exactly providing the MEN with loads of press releases about this 'good' news are they?

such as?

such as?

Exactly.

Also what's the best place to view the trams on this line?? I've never been up that way before!!

There's loads of places. I've only been as far as Newton Heath & Moston.
*The smedley tunnel portal, just past the depot points complex.
*any of the roads around Monsall Stop
*near Central Park
*Thorpe's Rd bridge <-- my fave as there is the finback bridge in one direction, and the entrance to the single line section on the other.
*Dean Lane bridge - the view towards Newton Heath & Moston.

Do they do the testing of lines at the same time each day or does it vary from day to day. I live literally 30 seconds away from the South Chadderton station, if they testing during the morning i will go down with my camera and try to get some shots

^^^^From what I seen them doing Imber they start doing the testing around 10ish to 12pm then from 2ish to 5ish but today they only did the testing in the morning.

Also what's the best place to view the trams on this line?? I've never been up that way before!!

^^^^ They quite alots of place u can see the trams on Oldham line Martin, the are

*Oldham Mumps stop

*Where the old Werneth station was but sadly the made the bridge height but u can see them going thorugh the tunnel

Street called Edward Street near Freehold stop is good place as it on hill and u looking down at it.

South Chadderton stop is probably the best place to see the testing

M60 motorway at Hollinwood stop

at the bottom of Road called Broadway as u would see them going under the bridge

And the other one as the ones that Kriis said.

^^^^From what I seen them doing Imber they start doing the testing around 10ish to 12pm then from 2ish to 5ish but today they only did the testing in the morning.


I saw them running between depot and newton heath around 1pm today.... not sure if they were going further but I guess they were.

^^^^From what I seen them doing Imber they start doing the testing around 10ish to 12pm then from 2ish to 5ish but today they only did the testing in the morning.



^^^^ They quite alots of place u can see the trams on Oldham line Martin, the are

*Oldham Mumps stop

*Where the old Werneth station was but sadly the made the bridge height but u can see them going thorugh the tunnel

Street called Edward Street near Freehold stop is good place as it on hill and u looking down at it.

South Chadderton stop is probably the best place to see the testing

M60 motorway at Hollinwood stop

at the bottom of Road called Broadway as u would see them going under the bridge

And the other one as the ones that Kriis said.

Cheers, i will have a wander down in the morning around 10am and see if i can capture anything.
I agree that South Chadderton station is probably the best place to go. The station is at ground level.
Just as a side note ive just walked through the station and what appears to be ticket machines have appeared on the platforms today

I would imagine that when the ticket machines and PIDs are uncovered at the stops then we can't be too far off from the line opening.

Was not an imminent sign of opening to Chorlton I don't think.

There was nothing obvious that the line was about to open, other than a driver came on here and told us about 2 days earlier that the rota had been updated for a 5:40am tram to go, carrying passengers, to Chorlton.

Was not an imminent sign of opening to Chorlton I don't think.

There was nothing obvious that the line was about to open, other than a driver came on here and told us about 2 days earlier that the rota had been updated for a 5:40am tram to go, carrying passengers, to Chorlton.

I'm not so sure. After the line had lain dormant for months the ticket machines and other finishing touches where uncovered and installed as soon as regular testing began. Of course no one knew the date, be we could tell it was soon.

For what it's worth - ticket machines went in during the first two weeks of June. I don't have exact dates. The cardboard coverings were removed around June 23rd.

I'd side with future here - no sense uncovering such a high-value piece of equipment too far in advance. Once the TVMs are uncovered it's worth keeping an eye out - the PIDs not so much, as they'll need to be tested in advance.

It was pretty clear to see that Metrolink were straining to get the line open within Spring, but as testing was pushed back (can't remember if I'd heard about that personally or via the forum) they weren't going to make it.

By June 25th the first Chorlton maps were up on the ticket machines - one such example was at Altrincham.

On June 27th - a rumoured opening date that was overshot - the ticket machines were updated with Chorlton stop information. I have a printed ticket dating from 0545 that morning. Later in the day the machines were displaying notices regarding the new stations "opening soon" - to deter passengers from purchasing a redundant ticket.

Also on the 27th, some trams had updated maps onboard.

The official opening announcement was made on the TfGM website the evening before (July 6th).

Whether a result of unforeseen circumstance or logistical implications, maps and ticketing options appeared some time in advance. But the clearest sign, of course, will be ghost running at service intervals, probably in the form of extending the terminating Victoria services. Til then, keep the breath baited...

We don't even know if 10 or 5tph on the ORL when it opens.

We don't even know if 10 or 5tph on the ORL when it opens.

Best guess 5tph from St Werburghs!

Was not an imminent sign of opening to Chorlton I don't think.

There was nothing obvious that the line was about to open, other than a driver came on here and told us about 2 days earlier that the rota had been updated for a 5:40am tram to go, carrying passengers, to Chorlton.

It was the last thing they did really.

But obviously this time you have to consider that there are more stops, so more ticket machines to install. It's a longer stretch of track so more time to train drivers and they probably need more drivers trained from the off.

Another 4 or 5 weeks without any problems and then I can see it opening. Initially 5 trams per hour to St Werburghs.

We don't even know if 10 or 5tph on the ORL when it opens.

Oh we do you know..... some of us anyway... It's every 12 minutes with the Chorlton lines extending through to Mumps. There's also no plans for any extra services to be introduced through the city at the moment as it's full up.

It's also unlikely that mediacity will be cut back to Cornbrook either as it's been accepted that it's too busy.

Any nonsense of running an extra 12 minute service reversing at Victoria from Oldham sensibly was never mentioned again.

Has this been confirmed anywhere?

I agree it is almost certainly the service we will see and I for one never thought that short running to Victoria would happen.

However, has it been formally announced yet? I don't think so.

It may be they up the Chorlton line to 10 tph. Doubt it, but maybe.

It may be they up the Chorlton line to 10 tph. Doubt it, but maybe.

Nope. sorry, not happening, not enough trams and no room across Cornbrook, doesn't need it anyway at the moment.

As said. There will be no extra trams running across the city for the time being

Has this been confirmed anywhere?

However, has it been formally announced yet? I don't think so.



No one is saying it has been confirmed. It is merely the general consensus of the forum of how the Oldham line will initially open.

Aye, I know, and my question was do we know what the service will be.

I think the answer is no, we do not know, but we can make a pretty good guess.

There may be a plan to run Eccles to Oldham on-peak to provide a 10tph service down to Oldham, unlikely, but not impossible.

In fact, thinking about it, this could be achieved very easily.

The inbound service at Cornbrook could be...

:00 from Alty
:04 from Eccles
:06 Alty
:08 SML
:10 MC
:12 Alty
:16 Eccles
...

with the SML and Eccles service continuing down the ORL and coming back at the same spacing.

10tph on Alty / Bury
10tph on Eccles & SML / ORL

all services remain relatively evenly spaced (Oldham is 4mins / 8mins - but could be changed with more of the network opening).

Do they have enough trams?

I dunno.

Will they run like that?

I doubt it.

Do we know for sure? I don't think so.

We don't even know if 10 or 5tph on the ORL when it opens.


It's going to a 5tph service anyway isn't it?

It only becomes 10tph when Rochdale opens.

10tph as far as Shaw.

You pays your money, you takes your choice.

10tph as far as Shaw.

You pays your money, you takes your choice.

Shaw won't be open until Rochdale is, unless they can run trams terminating at Shaw (I'd like this!).

Aye, but the advertised service at Oldham is 10tph.

I think you are right and it will be 5tph until Rochdale opens.

However, if you live in Oldham, does it matter to you if the line up to Rochdale is not open?

You may be expecting a 10tph irrelevant of how far north the line goes.

Presumably we will see a period of ghost running before it opens? e.g. St Werbs services kicking everyone off at Victoria and then running empty to Oldham (and vice-versa). I seem to remember about three weeks of ghosting on SML before it opened.

Aye, but the advertised service at Oldham is 10tph.

I think you are right and it will be 5tph until Rochdale opens.

However, if you live in Oldham, does it matter to you if the line up to Rochdale is not open?

You may be expecting a 10tph irrelevant of how far north the line goes.

Have they actually said its getting 10tph at opening or more it's planned to get a 10tph service once the extension is completed?

Have they actually said its getting 10tph at opening or more it's planned to get a 10tph service once the extension is completed?

Neither.

Presumably we will see a period of ghost running before it opens? e.g. St Werbs services kicking everyone off at Victoria and then running empty to Oldham (and vice-versa). I seem to remember about three weeks of ghosting on SML before it opened.

I said this before. Once they link the St Werbs service to the Oldham running empty from Victoria will not only help the keep the service running smoother but give us a good idea of when it's gonna start.

Neither.

They never said its getting 10tph? What about the TMS report?

I think he means it's not been confirmed when the 6 minute frequency will start, be it on opening of the line to Oldham, or when the full line opens to Rochdale.

"The Link" issue 3 confirmed there would be a 6 minute frequency to Shaw & Crompton, and 12 minute to Rochdale. But nothing has been confirmed about what the frequency will be when the line is only open as far as Oldham.

http://www.tfgm.com/upload/library/The_Link_3.pdf

I think he means it's not been confirmed when the 6 minute frequency will start, be it on opening of the line to Oldham, or when the full line opens to Rochdale.

"The Link" issue 3 confirmed there would be a 6 minute frequency to Shaw & Crompton, and 12 minute to Rochdale. But nothing has been confirmed about what the frequency will be when the line is only open as far as Oldham.

http://www.tfgm.com/upload/library/The_Link_3.pdf

Anyone else noticed that that states St Werb's to Piccadilly Gardens?

Anyone else noticed that that states St Werb's to Piccadilly Gardens?

Possible to change SML to Piccadilly and move MediaCity and Eccles over to ORL.

We make the assumption that it will be a 5tph from SML to ORL, but in reality we are making a lot of guesswork with incredibly limited information.

Hi All

I have just notice on the Metrolink website for Oldham & Rochdale line, is doesn't say Tram frequency anymore? like use to say Tram to Shaw every 6 mins (Peak times) and trams to Rochdale every 12 mins (off peak), I wonder why the took they off the website?

http://www.metrolink.co.uk/futuremetrolink/oldham-and-rochdale-line.asp

Possible to change SML to Piccadilly and move MediaCity and Eccles over to ORL.

We make the assumption that it will be a 5tph from SML to ORL, but in reality we are making a lot of guesswork with incredibly limited information.

Yes, it is guesswork, and yes it is an assumption. You don't need to point it out to us.

Still happy that my back and back of my head takes pride of place on the front of LINK 3 in the cab :nuts: lol, Thats me in the side window. A great early moment seeing that lovely yellow M5000 sat at Victoria.

Still happy that my back and back of my head takes pride of place on the front of LINK 3 in the cab :nuts: lol, Thats me in the side window. A great early moment seeing that lovely yellow M5000 sat at Victoria.

And we never did get to get your autograph. The queue was too long and I didn't have time to wait.

Come and see me at Victoria Motortownman. Ill be happy to write one out for you :lol::lol:

Come and see me at Victoria Motortownman. Ill be happy to write one out for you :lol::lol:

I told you before. I already did that but the transport police threw me out for going round checking out the back of over two thousand heads for a match. Harrassement they called it. I was even clutching onto my LINK 3, but theywouldn't have it. No asbo though ,this time.

Yes, it is guesswork, and yes it is an assumption. You don't need to point it out to us.

Hence my question yesterday if we know what the situation would be.

An honest question that people seem to have taken as post your opinion then get upset when I point out I was asking if we have had anything confirmed yet.

IIRC When the Altrincham line first opened it was 12-minutes (might have been 10) per hour; the trams were packed, you couldn't get on. Within a week or two they were every 6-minutes.

Initially it was 10tph in the peak morning and evening, after about 6 weeks it went 10tph all day and they operators never got the chance to remove those additional off peak services due to the complaints that they'd have received.

So.. am I correct in this:

SML was meant to be 6 min frequency. Said so on the website and everything. Same with the Oldham line (at least part of it). Then TMS issues began and they realised they would have to kick off with a 12 min frequency for the SML.

Then they removed the frequency altogether from the Oldham line website.

Now we are assuming (not knowing) that the Oldham line will simply be a continuation of the SML and therefore will start at 12 min, becoming 6 min when the SML does (assuming when they sort TMS out).

Is that right?

Initially it was 10tph in the peak morning and evening, after about 6 weeks it went 10tph all day and they operators never got the chance to remove those additional off peak services due to the complaints that they'd have received.

Ah, that's right, I remember the first time I travelled was a Saturday morning, after letting two full trams pass at Navigation Road, we got on one going the wrong way and stayed on whilst it turned round.

So.. am I correct in this:

SML was meant to be 6 min frequency. Said so on the website and everything. Same with the Oldham line (at least part of it). Then TMS issues began and they realised they would have to kick off with a 12 min frequency for the SML.

Then they removed the frequency altogether from the Oldham line website.

Now we are assuming (not knowing) that the Oldham line will simply be a continuation of the SML and therefore will start at 12 min, becoming 6 min when the SML does (assuming when they sort TMS out).

Is that right?

Yes!

Or as it's also known; we are making a lot of guesswork with incredibly limited information.

Yes!

Or as it's also known; we are making a lot of guesswork with incredibly limited information.

Aye, but let's face it, that's one of the fun parts of this forum!

Aye, but let's face it, that's one of the fun parts of this forum!

I agree! :banana:

^^^^From what I seen them doing Imber they start doing the testing around 10ish to 12pm then from 2ish to 5ish but today they only did the testing in the morning.

Was at the construction on Edwards Street/Jammy Lane around 12 but did not see a single tram.
Gutted.

From one of the driver trainers... the ORL will start with a 12min frequency, just connecting with the SML.

From one of the driver trainers... the ORL will start with a 12min frequency, just connecting with the SML.

I'm happy about the SML part. Would much prefer the Eccles line to extend to Ashton instead of Oldham.

Was at the construction on Edwards Street/Jammy Lane around 12 but did not see a single tram.
Gutted.

^^^^ I notice today I haven't seen a tram come up on the Oldham line but hopely they be more on Monday.

From one of the driver trainers... the ORL will start with a 12min frequency, just connecting with the SML.

^^^^ So at less we know that Oldham line will go to St Werburgh's Road then and it will be 12 mins service then, did he said when the line might be opening?, also my guess is that the EML will go to Eccles but they might have odd tram going to Bury.

:banana:

Initially it was 10tph in the peak morning and evening, after about 6 weeks it went 10tph all day and they operators never got the chance to remove those additional off peak services due to the complaints that they'd have received.

When the Altrincham Line opened it operated at 10 tph in the 2 short peaks (roughly 07:30 to 09:00 and 16:00 to 18:30) and 5 tph during the day and evening. Once Piccadilly opened the service became 5 tph Alt to Bury and Bury to Alt via Piccadilly all day and 5 tph Alt to Bry and Bury to Alt direct during the 2 short peaks. Very quickly it became obvious that passengers had become used to the direct north south connection all day and objected to changing in the Gardens and also that there was enough demand for an all day 10 tph service so the direct service became 07:30 to 18:30.

From one of the driver trainers... the ORL will start with a 12min frequency, just connecting with the SML.

Similar place to where I heard from. But of course "we are making a lot of guesswork with incredibly limited information" when we pass it on. Maybe that means when you get it from a reliable source you need to question the source, question why they said it. Can they prove it? Then send it off to have it checked by official sources before you may pass it on!

Or maybe we don't pass it on, then we can all sit and look at empty pages .

Or maybe we differentiate between opinion and fact and ensure we don't confuse matters by mixing the two.

Tell me, why is there a common view held by the public that Prescott said he'd have the EML open to the stadium before the Commonwealth games?

Because rumour became accepted as fact, as happens on here on occasion.

It doesn't take long for a 'fact' not to be true and blame be assigned unfairly.

Similar place to where I heard from. But of course "we are making a lot of guesswork with incredibly limited information" when we pass it on. Maybe that means when you get it from a reliable source you need to question the source, question why they said it. Can they prove it? Then send it off to have it checked by official sources before you may pass it on!

Or maybe we don't pass it on, then we can all sit and look at empty pages .

But you forget the biggest fact on the railways, by the time your told the plans changed and your info is wrong!

Think what people don't realise is things aren't black or white. They're grey. Planning major events like opening a new line will have many different dates during its course but within an overall timescale. It's just how life is. We need to stop getting hooked up on the fact that the inside information isn't always what happens but will give those of you outside the industry a peak in what happens behind the curtain.

Or maybe we differentiate between opinion and fact and ensure we don't confuse matters by mixing the two.

Tell me, why is there a common view held by the public that Prescott said he'd have the EML open to the stadium before the Commonwealth games?

Because rumour became accepted as fact, as happens on here on occasion.

It doesn't take long for a 'fact' not to be true and blame be assigned unfairly.

Cats, if that's the case there are no facts in the world but everything is opinion.

.

Cats, if that's the case there are no facts in the world but everything is opinion.

.

It is a fact that TfGM try to offer 10tph on the Alty line.

www.Metrolink.co.uk tells me.

Nothing has told us what is going on ORL.

As I said, look at how the EML should have got to Eastlands for the CG.

Fact according to many, including the MEN due to rumour and opinion being repeated often enough.

I'm so glad that you managed to capture the action Johnny - It's a good job people like you have the patience and determination to achieve what they want. Top man!!

I second that emotion - almost had a tear in me eye when I read your words Johnny by those historic images! (Or was it a cinder in the eye from a ghostly passing steamer to Milford that got me weepy?). How perfick that it your dogged determination that spotted the "fin-ana". :-)

BRAVO Johnny - and what a fast-moving discussion re TMS and tph's - just taken me about two hours to catch up and I was only off the forum for the blink of Celia Johnston's eye!

It is a fact that TfGM try to offer 10tph on the Alty line.

www.Metrolink.co.uk tells me.

Nothing has told us what is going on ORL.

As I said, look at how the EML should have got to Eastlands for the CG.

Fact according to many, including the MEN due to rumour and opinion being repeated often enough.

Are you taking that as a personal dig? Seems you are. I was talking overall but you seem to believe I'm talking about the Metrolink (which believe it or not I don't always talk about).

Let's not continue this increasing pointless discussion please.

Could see a track gang from Rochdale road (near depot). Are these works due to Oldham line?

Just seen at East Didsbury a balast train been filled. Couldn't get picture

ORL could get 10tph when the EML opens without full TMS right, as the bottleneck is Cornbrook? So ORL could be 5tph as extension of SML, then EML opens EML-ORL as 5tph and Eccles extends down the EML to provide 10tph on both the EML from opening and then the ORL

ORL could get 10tph when the EML opens without full TMS right, as the bottleneck is Cornbrook? So ORL could be 5tph as extension of SML, then EML opens EML-ORL as 5tph and Eccles extends down the EML to provide 10tph on both the EML from opening and then the ORL

Possible I guess! Personally I don't think they will have too many "alternating" services on the new lines. Nothing to support that belief, just my opinion.

Also I don't think the ORL will need 10tph on opening. Maybe once it gets busy enough. The SML still doesn't really "need" it yet.

I think the Oldham line could surprise a few people and, despite the whingers, it is clear that the locals have missed the railway line and the opportunity to return to rail travel on Metrolink will be popular I suspect. I can see the Oldham Rochdale line being one of the busiest when it is completed in full.

I think the Oldham line could surprise a few people and, despite the whingers, it is clear that the locals have missed the railway line and the opportunity to return to rail travel on Metrolink will be popular I suspect. I can see the Oldham Rochdale line being one of the busiest when it is completed in full.

Actually yeah I did forget the fact that unlike the SML, the ORL was a working commuter line a couple of years ago!

Ah well, sooner the SML DOES go to 6 mins the better for me, so if the ORL helps this then so be it!

(What's that? TMS is needed for 6 min frequency? Botheration!)

Ah well, sooner the SML DOES go to 6 mins the better for me, so if the ORL helps this then so be it!

[/SIZE]

You could be forgiven for thinking that it already was six minutes or less at certain times of the day. Just missed a tram at St Werburhs yesterday and cursed the idea of a 12 minute wait for the next. At that point another tram appeared and left St Ws less than five minutes after the one I'd just missed.
On the journey into town passed five more St W bound trams!

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8018/6975665110_6a16b71b21.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/75964651@N03/6975665110/)
gmex bridge (http://www.flickr.com/photos/75964651@N03/6975665110/) by scientist12 (http://www.flickr.com/people/75964651@N03/), on Flickr

Is this bridge turquoise to match the trams and if so should it now be painted yellow?:banana:

You could be forgiven for thinking that it already was six minutes or less at certain times of the day. Just missed a tram at St Werburhs yesterday and cursed the idea of a 12 minute wait for the next. At that point another tram appeared and left St Ws less than five minutes after the one I'd just missed.
On the journey into town passed five more St W bound trams!

Does that mean there are then some times when the wait is much longer than 12 minutes?

Does that mean there are then some times when the wait is much longer than 12 minutes?

I have certainly experienced a few!

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8018/6975665110_6a16b71b21.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/75964651@N03/6975665110/)
gmex bridge (http://www.flickr.com/photos/75964651@N03/6975665110/) by scientist12 (http://www.flickr.com/people/75964651@N03/), on Flickr

Is this bridge turquoise to match the trams and if so should it now be painted yellow?:banana:

Sadly they seem to paint all bridges along Metrolink lines in the shade of grey that appears on the middle of the M5000 trams. I'd love to see the yellow spots on them, but I'm sure the heritage crowd would object, and would raise costs significantly!

I have certainly experienced a few!

Me too :(

Does that mean there are then some times when the wait is much longer than 12 minutes?

I imagine this is something that the "Tram Management System" is intended to correct, as well as simply controlling the points and crossings. When driven by Line-of-Sight alone (as on the SML at the moment?), trams will always bunch up in the same way that buses do.

Block signalling prevents this bunching to some extent by holding the following tram at a red signal until a gap is generated - the only trouble is that the size of this gap is fixed by the spacing of the signals and is, in the current setup, too large to cope with the throughput at various points in the network.

I think the point of TMS is to enable the gap between trams to be varied to suit the time of day, but to be held constant over the short term to maintain a regular [i.e. unbunched] service.

(This is again pure speculation I'm afraid)

Hi All

Do anyone know what they where doing on the Bury line today or have they been testing the trams out on the crossover at Iry Valley Junction (Where Bury & Oldham line meet), also I notice they still use the Stagecoach buses for replacement buses service which I through is bit weird as Stagecoach don't own Metrolink anymore.

The northern pier foundation for the Chorlton Brook bridge near St. Werburgh's Road is done, all concretey and nice!

Hi All

Do anyone know what they where doing on the Bury line today or have they been testing the trams out on the crossover at Iry Valley Junction (Where Bury & Oldham line meet), also I notice they still use the Stagecoach buses for replacement buses service which I through is bit weird as Stagecoach don't own Metrolink anymore.

Track works at the Bury loco junction and commissioning of the Irk Valley junction - hopefully they have fixed the fault with the single line operation around Newton Heath & Moston too!!

The northern pier foundation for the Chorlton Brook bridge near St. Werburgh's Road is done, all concretey and nice!

No photos Martin? That's unlike you! :lol::lol:

The northern pier foundation for the Chorlton Brook bridge near St. Werburgh's Road is done, all concretey and nice!

Yeah, they fair slung that one in! I was round Tuesday and they were still fixing the shuttering. I didn't go round on Wednesday. On Thursday it was all poured and shuttering struck!

No photos Martin? That's unlike you! :lol::lol:
True :)

However its essentially a bit of concrete in some mud, doesn't look that impressive! I'm not one for photos for photos' sake! (well not all the time!)

Track works at the Bury loco junction and commissioning of the Irk Valley junction - hopefully they have fixed the fault with the single line operation around Newton Heath & Moston too!!

Thanks for that Kriis, What do u mean about "fault with the single line operation around Newton Heath & Moston too"?

Thanks for that Kriis, What do u mean about "fault with the single line operation around Newton Heath & Moston too"?

They had problems with the signals there, which meant the training was terminated early on the Thursday and why there was no trams running along there yesterday either. :bash:

BTW, wasn't 100% Thales fault.

They had problems with the signals there, which meant the training was terminated early on the Thursday and why there was no trams running along there yesterday either. :bash:

BTW, wasn't 100% Thales fault.

^^^^ At less it happen know then happening on the First day of Opening the line, just think what the Oldhamers will say about it if that happen:lol:.

Question, other than having enough dual fitted trams, is there any reasons why they can't run double M5000's from Piccadilly to Oldham?

Question, other than having enough dual fitted trams, is there any reasons why they can't run double M5000's from Piccadilly to Oldham?

Not that I can think of, other than it means more trams through the Picc undercroft that quite often gets congested, causing trams to queue entering there. I think to do that, they would have to make all Alty & Bury trams directs, asking passengers to switch to either the Eccles/Mediacity/Oldham service trams to get to Piccadilly. - Which wouldn't go down too well :lol:

Sadly they seem to paint all bridges along Metrolink lines in the shade of grey that appears on the middle of the M5000 trams. I'd love to see the yellow spots on them, but I'm sure the heritage crowd would object, and would raise costs significantly!

Oh well at least it will match the drizzle :lol:

As far as I'm aware routes will be:
1, Bury to Ashton (via Pic obviously)
2, East Didsbury to Oldham
3, Piccadilly to Altrincham (no directs to Bury)
4, airport to Rochdale
5, Eccles as is
6, media city shuttles will run from corn brook using new siding that's already installed but not used

That's what we believe but as we know, you never know, hope this helps with all the guessing.

As far as I'm aware routes will be:
1, Bury to Ashton (via Pic obviously)
2, East Didsbury to Oldham
3, Piccadilly to Altrincham (no directs to Bury)
4, airport to Rochdale
5, Eccles as is
6, media city shuttles will run from corn brook using new siding that's already installed but not used

That's what we believe but as we know, you never know, hope this helps with all the guessing.

No directs to Bury? Are you having a laugh?

My prediction of the peak-time would be:

Alti - Bury (Every 12 minutes)
Alti - Piccadilly (Every 12 minutes)
Bury - Ashton (Every 12 minutes)
East Didsbury - Shaw & Crompton (Every 12 minutes)
East Didsbury - Rochdale Town Centre (Every 12 minutes)
Eccles - Ashton (Every 12 minutes)
MediaCityUK - Piccadilly (Every 12 Minutes) <-- I think it would annoy people to change it to Cornbrook now.
Manchester Airport - Victoria (Every 12 minutes)

I think that is every line...

No directs to Bury? Are you having a laugh?

My prediction of the peak-time would be:

Alti - Bury (Every 12 minutes)
Alti - Piccadilly (Every 12 minutes)
Bury - Ashton (Every 12 minutes)
East Didsbury - Shaw & Crompton (Every 12 minutes)
East Didsbury - Rochdale Town Centre (Every 12 minutes)
Eccles - Ashton (Every 12 minutes)
MediaCityUK - Piccadilly (Every 12 Minutes) <-- I think it would annoy people to change it to Cornbrook now.
Manchester Airport - Victoria (Every 12 minutes)

I think that is every line...

I work that out to be 42 trams per hour in one direction through cornbrook. Can it even handle that with TMS?

No directs to Bury? Are you having a laugh?

My prediction of the peak-time would be:

Alti - Bury (Every 12 minutes)
Alti - Piccadilly (Every 12 minutes)
Bury - Ashton (Every 12 minutes)
East Didsbury - Shaw & Crompton (Every 12 minutes)
East Didsbury - Rochdale Town Centre (Every 12 minutes)
Eccles - Ashton (Every 12 minutes)
MediaCityUK - Piccadilly (Every 12 Minutes) <-- I think it would annoy people to change it to Cornbrook now.
Manchester Airport - Victoria (Every 12 minutes)

I think that is every line...

I agree on that.
Profound statement for the day.... "mediacity will not operate only to Cornbrook. This will crushload Eccles trams as passengers won't change as someone told me recently... up in the sky, on a windswept viaduct stuck in the middle of nowhere. They will rethink it, and bring the side platform back into use as well as the siding just in case. They won't turn any trams there as it will delay any trams waiting behind whilst the driver does his checks etc." End of profound statement.

No directs to Bury? Are you having a laugh?

My prediction of the peak-time would be:

Alti - Bury (Every 12 minutes)
Alti - Piccadilly (Every 12 minutes)
Bury - Ashton (Every 12 minutes)
East Didsbury - Shaw & Crompton (Every 12 minutes)
East Didsbury - Rochdale Town Centre (Every 12 minutes)
Eccles - Ashton (Every 12 minutes)
MediaCityUK - Piccadilly (Every 12 Minutes) <-- I think it would annoy people to change it to Cornbrook now.
Manchester Airport - Victoria (Every 12 minutes)

I think that is every line...

Will the Alty to Piccadilly not carry through to Ashton? Why turn round at Piccadilly?

I work that out to be 42 trams per hour in one direction through cornbrook. Can it even handle that with TMS?

Apparently with TMS, the Cornbrook Viaduct will be able to handle upto 84tph.

Will the Alty to Piccadilly not carry through to Ashton? Why turn round at Piccadilly?

It's not confirmed. It's just what I think will happen.

Will the Alty to Piccadilly not carry through to Ashton? Why turn round at Piccadilly?

Wouldn't be an even 6 minute service Altfish, they don't go into or out of Piccadilly from Bury or Altrincham at 6 minute intervals. Unlikely that timings can be changed, but maybe a computer timetable system can wiggle the figures better then me with a pencil.
If the times into and out of Piccadilly Ashton change to be even intervals, then that makes them uneven either to Bury or Altrincham.
I may be proved wrong!

I work that out to be 42 trams per hour in one direction through cornbrook. Can it even handle that with TMS?

Not a clue how many it can handle, as a driver it often feels like it can't handle it as it is at present, as far as the no directs that's what we have heard. What ever changes they make cornbrook will always be the limiting factor so get used to it, until they go under or over the city with another crossing apart from the new 2nd city crossing it will always be a problem, on the 2nd city crossing interesting how the wheel has gone at exchange square????

Media city shuttles from cornbrook will happen, every southbound tram passes through cornbrook so it's not exactly that inconvenient oh and ask what is the big portacabin on the north end of cornbrook platform? It is a drivers rest room where drivers will work from when doing the shuttles just like the cabin in the back of the undercroft at Piccadilly when the drivers are working the Eccles line and current Media shuttles, they need to free piccadilly up so running shuttles from cornbrook makes sense as the rest of the routes use pic anyway apart from sml

The "no directs between Altrincham and Bury" isn't going to happen either! If anything, they are the ones that would stay as they are.

Seems the drivers are all being told different things! lol There was something I learned last week that has me confused though, but no more on that for the time being!

The 2cc won't make any difference whatsover on the Cornbrook Deansgate section. It has to be signalling that allows this.

what about running the airport line to cornbrook rather then victoria then they could keep mediacity uk service running into piccadilly

I work that out to be 42 trams per hour in one direction through cornbrook. Can it even handle that with TMS?

That should be 35tph - think you've assumed each service is 6tph, but every 12 minutes is actually 5tph.

A 6tph service is actually what they originally planned ca. 1990, but they didn't get enough trams - maybe we will see that one day.

The "no directs between Altrincham and Bury" isn't going to happen either! If anything, they are the ones that would stay as they are.

Seems the drivers are all being told different things! lol There was something I learned last week that has me confused though, but no more on that for the time being!

The 2cc won't make any difference whatsover on the Cornbrook Deansgate section. It has to be signalling that allows this.

Take it you work for Metrolink Motorwoman? You seem to know alot more than I do and I work there as a driver I find that very interesting ??

Take it you work for Metrolink Motorwoman? You seem to know alot more than I do and I work there as a driver I find that very interesting ??



At present:

Alti-Bury (every 12 minutes)
Alti-Piccadilly (every 12 minutes)

Are you saying that the service will become:

Alti-Piccadilly (every 6 minutes)

or:

Alti-Piccadilly (every 12 minutes)
Alti - Ashton (every 12 minutes)

what about running the airport line to cornbrook rather then victoria then they could keep mediacity uk service running into piccadilly

Welcome to the forum Adzlee. I would imagine they'd want to ensure the Airport line was direct to one of the major train stations, either Piccadilly or Victoria. People going on holiday with baggage won't want to lug it all off and hang around on the platform at Cornbrook waiting for their airport connection.

Welcome to the forum Adzlee. I would imagine they'd want to ensure the Airport line was direct to one of the major train stations, either Piccadilly or Victoria. People going on holiday with baggage won't want to lug it all off and hang around on the platform at Cornbrook waiting for their airport connection.

Don't think people would get on the tram to the airport from Manchester, not with such high frequency at Piccadilly say.

Don't think people would get on the tram to the airport from Manchester, not with such high frequency at Piccadilly say.

Aye, the airport line isn't for airport passengers from Manchester, who have a direct train service.

Media city shuttles from cornbrook will happen, every southbound tram passes through cornbrook so it's not exactly that inconvenient oh and ask what is the big portacabin on the north end of cornbrook platform? It is a drivers rest room where drivers will work from when doing the shuttles just like the cabin in the back of the undercroft at Piccadilly when the drivers are working the Eccles line and current Media shuttles, they need to free piccadilly up so running shuttles from cornbrook makes sense as the rest of the routes use pic anyway apart from sml

If they do this, it will be one of the most unpopular decisons Metrolink will ever make.

Apart from removing the Altrincham - Bury directs ;)

As far as I'm aware routes will be:
1, Bury to Ashton (via Pic obviously)
2, East Didsbury to Oldham
3, Piccadilly to Altrincham (no directs to Bury)
4, airport to Rochdale
5, Eccles as is
6, media city shuttles will run from corn brook using new siding that's already installed but not used

That's what we believe but as we know, you never know, hope this helps with all the guessing.

I don't work there, but the info I have had from a friend who does has so far always been 100% accurate apart from the signalling bits which although also 100% correct end up wrong when I put it on here due to being clueless regarding signals.

So this proves that sometimes we can all take away different things from the same story.

However, what you say is very interesting if it is to be the final routes. Although I doubt it will be as we all know at the moment things can suddenly change day by day.
I'm also thinking that the frequencies will need to be drastically altered to allow some or most of that,. ie Bury and Alt both going to Piccadilly... every 6 minutes or every 12 minutes? Surely that means even more trams going there and most reversing apart from whatever carries on to Ashton.

line 2 and 4... which one gets cut back after 8pm? which one turns at Shaw etc... so does it give a 24 minute service to Rochdale?
Until at least 4 -5 weeks away, unless from what kriis said earlier if there are still problems at Newton Heath possibly longer, until that purple line extends to Mumps more will become clear.

Take it you work for Metrolink Motorwoman? You seem to know alot more than I do and I work there as a driver I find that very interesting ??
^^ With 13 posts I wouldn't get too heavy with the insults. You may find getting people's backs up early on can take a long time to recover from.

Other than that, welcome to the forum. :banana:

Remember, by the time your told a plan several others may have been thought out and what you think it's correct isn't. Just how things work in life. Everything we're being told is likely to have been an internal plan at some point.

Apparently with TMS, the Cornbrook Viaduct will be able to handle upto 84tph.



It's not confirmed. It's just what I think will happen.

So that would mean 42tph in one direction, which means when the airport line opens it will be at 100% capacity

Hi All

Question, other than having enough dual fitted trams, is there any reasons why they can't run double M5000's from Piccadilly to Oldham?

I think before that if the Oldham line is 12 mins service then in three months after is opens it will become very busy special in peak times, so I think why don't they have double M5000 trams running from Victoria to Mumps but only in peak times and have it 6 mins service also in peak times too?

As far as I'm aware routes will be:
1, Bury to Ashton (via Pic obviously)
2, East Didsbury to Oldham
3, Piccadilly to Altrincham (no directs to Bury)
4, airport to Rochdale
5, Eccles as is
6, media city shuttles will run from corn brook using new siding that's already installed but not used

That's what we believe but as we know, you never know, hope this helps with all the guessing.

So you are saying that Alt/Bury lines are to come down to a 12 min service.... after 20 years of a 6 min service? Riiiiiight!!!! I think you've been given 'misinformation'!!!

Edit: just noticed 2) East Dids to Oldham! Nothing will be turning back at Oldham once 3b opens (Shaw is getting a turnback). I smell bullsh1t!!

So that would mean 42tph in one direction, which means when the airport line opens it will be at 100% capacity

There is a document on this forum somewhere which shows how many tph each section of track will have after Phase 3b - I'm trying to find it but can't.....

However, I have ended up reading posts from May 2011 onwards about the opening of the Chorlton line!

Nostalgia on a rainy day! :banana:

So you are saying that Alt/Bury lines are to come down to a 12 min service.... after 20 years of a 6 min service? Riiiiiight!!!! I think you've been given 'misinformation'!!!

Edit: just noticed 2) East Dids to Oldham! Nothing will be turning back at Oldham once 3b opens (Shaw is getting a turnback). I smell bullsh1t!!

He never said that each of those lines was a 12min service.... Could be a 6min freq Bury-Ashton and a 6min freq Alt-Picc.
And there's no need to call it bull for saying Oldham, he probs just means the short turnback of the line.. ie Shaw. :bash:

He never said that each of those lines was a 12min service.... Could be a 6min freq Bury-Ashton and a 6min freq Alt-Picc.
And there's no need to call it bull for saying Oldham, he probs just means the short turnback of the line.. ie Shaw. :bash:

That's a hell of a lot of trams going through Picc. With regards to the bull comment, I'd expect someone who works for a company to know the layout of the system. There are massive holes in what he's suggesting! It doesn't sound right!!

I think the guessing about services is getting a bit too personal. We all like to have a go at predicting what will happen but none of have the accurate info. No need to insult someone who is only passing on what he has been told.

For my guess I'd go along with Motor with the retention of the existing Bury Alt directs, the Bury Alt via Piccadilly becoming Bury to Ashton via Picc, possibly the Eccles Picc forming the other Ashton (which of these 2 continues to Ashton outside the peak is anyone's guess), East Didsbury running onto ORL with every other one terminating at Shaw, I suppose that leaves the current alt to Bury via Picc terminating at Sheffield St. MCUK being cut back to Cornbrook would be an extremely brave move now but stranger decisions have been made before.

Just an add-in comment, there has been talk around Metrolink towers to change the current Alt-Picc-Bury service into separate Bury-Picc-Bury and Alt-Pic-Alt services, so that when there is a disruption on either line, there is still a solid 12min service, rather than leaving a big gap in front of the incident.

Just an add-in comment, there has been talk around Metrolink towers to change the current Alt-Picc-Bury service into separate Bury-Picc-Bury and Alt-Pic-Alt services, so that when there is a disruption on either line, there is still a solid 12min service, rather than leaving a big gap in front of the incident.

Yes, that's what I was told, and reading very carefully into that gives the biggest clue yet which line is going to continue on to Ashton from the two lines.

It's going to be Bury to Ashton.

TfGM is preparing the schedules for the above at this time. Hopefully they are taking into account what services will continue to Ashton so it's a seamless extension of the service. Now the real guesswork.....what's the other line..... I say it's Eccles.

Just an add-in comment, there has been talk around Metrolink towers to change the current Alt-Picc-Bury service into separate Bury-Picc-Bury and Alt-Pic-Alt services, so that when there is a disruption on either line, there is still a solid 12min service, rather than leaving a big gap in front of the incident.

That would certainly help reliability and also lend itself to extending one of them (the Bury) to Ashton.

A bit crap for those commuting across the city centre though (or those from Alty who need to get to Victoria).

A bit crap for those commuting across the city centre though (or those from Alty who need to get to Victoria).

No fella, the service pattern stays exactly the same, but the Bury line continues on to Ashton, you'll still be able to change for Bury services in Piccadilly Gardens. I can't imagine anyway that anybody would carry on to Piccadilly station, cross platforms and wait for the same tram to go back out to either Bury Or Altrincham. Would they? It's not advertised as doing that anyway.
The direct service remains.

A bit crap for those commuting across the city centre though (or those from Alty who need to get to Victoria).

Why? The idea only concerns the services that run via Piccadilly, directs will still run.

Why? The idea only concerns the services that run via Piccadilly, directs will still run.

Yep, from a passenger point of view, nothing would change.

Why? The idea only concerns the services that run via Piccadilly, directs will still run.

Yes, it's the way that metrolink operate the service that changes, and won't make any difference to the service pattern.
But generally, the public don't need to know how it operates, just what's on the front.
The bus services also operate differently sometimes when the timetables change. Example; You may stand in Piccadilly and see a 201 arrive. You may then know since last september that it changes to a 203. To make things more relaible on known possible late running services, an extra bus may be put in that the passenger doesn't know about. The 201 may then become a 207, when it didn't the previous week.

As i have said previously somewhere on these threads, i cannot see metrolink doing a Ashton-Oldham-Rochdale(via picc and vic) as it will be pointless going on a round trip for over an hour as the 409 will get you there in 45-50 mins depending on traffic.

Will they need to changes the timetable if the Ashton line go to Bury?

Why? The idea only concerns the services that run via Piccadilly, directs will still run.

So would a tram work like this:

Alt - Bury - Picc - Bury - Alt - Picc and so on

Question, other than having enough dual fitted trams, is there any reasons why they can't run double M5000's from Piccadilly to Oldham?
Sounds like you mean a train. :naughty:

So would a tram work like this:

Alt - Bury - Picc - Bury - Alt - Picc and so on

No... Alt Picc all the time both ways
Alt Bury all the time both ways
Bury Picc (then Ashton) all the time both ways.

As far as I'm aware routes will be:
1, Bury to Ashton (via Pic obviously)
2, East Didsbury to Oldham
3, Piccadilly to Altrincham (no directs to Bury)
4, airport to Rochdale
5, Eccles as is
6, media city shuttles will run from corn brook using new siding that's already installed but not used

That's what we believe but as we know, you never know, hope this helps with all the guessing.

where do you get your info from rick

No... Alt Picc all the time both ways
Alt Bury all the time both ways
Bury Picc (then Ashton) all the time both ways.

Yep, splitting them into the 3 services shown on the colour maps now at stops and on the trams, rather than the Blue and Yellow lines joining at Picc.

My money is on:

Alty-Bury Directs (to eventually use 2CC)
Alty-Piccadilly & Bury-Piccadilly
Eccles-Piccadilly-Ashton
Mediacity-City-Vic-Oldham(-Shaw)
E'Dids-St Werbys-City-Vic-Oldham(-Rochdale)

But heh... just a guess ;)

I still think it will be Bury/Altrincham - Ashton, with only the Eccles trams turning at Piccadilly.

In the end though in regards to Bury and future Rochdale services, the service pattern will go out of the window anyway when construction starts at Victoria and the 2nd city crossing. Metrolink will be in two halves for quite a while! Good job they now have two depots.

Im definitely interested to see how they will work into Victoria when they rebuild the current platforms to take 3 lines.

Apologies for the slightly aggressive tone yesterday. Had been one hell of a crap day!!! But I stand by my point that removing Alt/Bury directs doesn't make sense!!

I still think it will be Bury/Altrincham - Ashton, with only the Eccles trams turning at Piccadilly.

In the end though in regards to Bury and future Rochdale services, the service pattern will go out of the window anyway when construction starts at Victoria and the 2nd city crossing. Metrolink will be in two halves for quite a while! Good job they now have two depots.

Im definitely interested to see how they will work into Victoria when they rebuild the current platforms to take 3 lines.

When do they start the work at Victoria?

I still think it will be Bury/Altrincham - Ashton, with only the Eccles trams turning at Piccadilly.

In the end though in regards to Bury and future Rochdale services, the service pattern will go out of the window anyway when construction starts at Victoria and the 2nd city crossing. Metrolink will be in two halves for quite a while! Good job they now have two depots.

Im definitely interested to see how they will work into Victoria when they rebuild the current platforms to take 3 lines.

As Motor has pointed out that doesn't give an even interval service so Bury Ashton and Eccles Ashton are a better match. The Bury and Altrincham departures from Piccadilly aren't 6 minutes apart at the moment and changing them would result in uneven headways between Altrincham and Bury. It would be easier to adjuct the Eccles/MediacityUK services by a minute or two to get the Eccles service 6 minutes behind the Bury at Piccadilly.

The Victoria job will start late this year so you won't have long to wait! It's being tied in to Network Rail's roof rebuilding project to ensure there is only one period of disruption.

Also, on match days, will trams not continue to Sports City or the Velodrome?

Apologies for the slightly aggressive tone yesterday. Had been one hell of a crap day!!! But I stand by my point that removing Alt/Bury directs doesn't make sense!!

No personal best on the Marathon then? :lol:

No personal best on the Marathon then? :lol:

Running's not my thing, although the Marathon completely isolating Timperley from the east didn't help my mood!! Lol

Oh I had forgotten about the timetabling Issues Freel. October was the month being banded about for the works at Victoria that we had heard.

I dont agree with those that say uneven headways are impossible, it can be rectified with timing points and delayed returns. On the Bury line already theres one minute scheduled for a stop at Queens road for every tram giving a degree of variability.

I dont agree with those that say uneven headways are impossible, it can be rectified with timing points and delayed returns. On the Bury line already theres one minute scheduled for a stop at Queens road for every tram giving a degree of variability.

Requires some good timetabling but far from impossible.

Hi All

Some Good news they have start putting the ticket machines in or think to put the ticket machines in at Freehold stop:banana:

Bad news is that I haven't seen tram come up on the Oldham line today so does is mean the still problem at Dean Lane (Newton Heath and Moston) then?

I dont agree with those that say uneven headways are impossible, it can be rectified with timing points and delayed returns. On the Bury line already theres one minute scheduled for a stop at Queens road for every tram giving a degree of variability.

Okay, so where would you put in a timing point at Piccadilly Gardens to make even intervals to Ashton without delaying any tram coming behind that may be running late? They have to be exact from Piccadilly Gardens towards Ashton, not anywhere before or anywhere after.

Yes, you could delay them at certain pint, that is if you really want to make the journeys even longer. But why go to all the effort, when another line fits in evenly?

And to make them even coming from Ashton, yes no problem, but they wouldn't fit in with the direct services. Am wondering what good a timing point is at Queens Road anyway, what difference would that make?

Same place already, the turning point between Piccadilly and Piccadilly Gardens.

Requires some good timetabling but far from impossible.

Yes, of course its completely possible! Although there would be panalties ie other services delayed, trams stiing waiting, longer journeys. Why bother?

. Am wondering what good a timing point is at Queens Road anyway, what difference would that make?

All trams are timetabled to stop for one minute at Queens Road to maintain 6 minute timings between services, they dont.

Sorry, I don't understand any of what you said Watcher. Having said that, the trams all leave Bury at exact 6 minute intervals, and also from Altrincham. There's no standing time shown on the journey planner at Queens Road. Maybe they allow running time to change crews etc and to make allowances for when Woodlands Road is closed, but that makes no difference to the frequency or even headway.

Well we'll just have to agree to diasgree.

Teeny update on the Didsbury line - they have ballasted the track now through Didsbury Village stop, through the tunnel and almost until W. Didsbury (sadly I didn't have my camera so these are iPhone 3GS shots!):

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/IMG_1016.jpg

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/IMG_1015.jpg

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/IMG_1017.jpg

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab93/martin2345uk/IMG_1019.jpg

Am I right in thinking that the straightening is done after ballasting?

Hi All

Some Good news they have start putting the ticket machines in or think to put the ticket machines in at Freehold stop:banana:

Bad news is that I haven't seen tram come up on the Oldham line today so does is mean the still problem at Dean Lane (Newton Heath and Moston) then?

You are right about the tvms being installed should be running again tues the 1st of may.:banana:

Until what time of day does this testing go on? Do you know roughly..?

Good picture of Didsbury line Martin :cheers:, is amazing to think that line will't be opening until Summers of next year.

You are right about the tvms being installed should be running again tues the 1st of may.:banana:

^^^^ Thanks for Metroman if they are testing the trams again on the Oldham line tomorrow then I'll try and get some pics of them coming up on Oldham line.

:banana:

Until what time of day does this testing go on? Do you know roughly..?

^^^^ From what I seen them from last week Martin they start from 10ish to dinner time and then from 2ish to 5ish but it probably be diff this week.

sadly I didn't have my camera so these are iPhone 3GS shots!


Great photos Martin. They look great to me, as I view them on my iPhone :)

All trams are timetabled to stop for one minute at Queens Road to maintain 6 minute timings between services, they dont.

Any timed stop at Queens Road is nothing to do with adjusting the run times, its simply to allow for driver changes.

As Motor says why change the existing times to allow an Altrincham to Ashton service when the existing Eccles times will give a better match. Also changing the Altrincham times will impact on the Eccles to Piccadilly services.
I don't understand what help Aytoun Street crossover is either as we aren't talking about turning anything back between Piccadilly Gardens and Piccadilly. Sorry if I have misunderstood your point.

Teeny update on the Didsbury line - they have ballasted the track now through Didsbury Village stop, through the tunnel and almost until W. Didsbury (sadly I didn't have my camera so these are iPhone 3GS shots!):

Am I right in thinking that the straightening is done after ballasting?

The final alignment will be done after the ballasting as then the ballast will hold the alignment.

Any timed stop at Queens Road is nothing to do with adjusting the run times, its simply to allow for driver changes.

As Motor says why change the existing times to allow an Altrincham to Ashton service when the existing Eccles times will give a better match. Also changing the Altrincham times will impact on the Eccles to Piccadilly services.
I don't understand what help Aytoun Street crossover is either as we aren't talking about turning anything back between Piccadilly Gardens and Piccadilly. Sorry if I have misunderstood your point.

It would allow them to stack up before entering Pic.

It would allow them to stack up before entering Pic.

So they would leave Piccadilly Gardens ie the main city centre stop at very uneven intervals but be even intervals from Piccadilly station? Is that what you mean?

..... fair enough, so a tram comes up from mediacity behind, having been delayed somewhere and ends up having to wait behind another tram which is trying to waste time ,or just be stopped.

Somehow I don't think so and I honestly can't see any logic in that whatsoever. Sorry I don't agree.

Maybe getting a big piece of paper and a pencil out and try to work it out then . I've done so, and with members on here. Maybe there is something I can't see?

Isn't the cross over at Aytoun Street supposed to be for emergencies only? Good shots by the way Martin!

Bad news is that I haven't seen tram come up on the Oldham line today so does is mean the still problem at Dean Lane (Newton Heath and Moston) then?

Yeah its still not fixed, don't go running around expecting to see trams on training duties tomorrow. Might happen, may not.... more probably not though. :bash:

So they would leave Piccadilly Gardens ie the main city centre stop at very uneven intervals but be even intervals from Piccadilly station? Is that what you mean?

..... fair enough, so a tram comes up from mediacity behind, having been delayed somewhere and ends up having to wait behind another tram which is trying to waste time ,or just be stopped.

Somehow I don't think so and I honestly can't see any logic in that whatsoever. Sorry I don't agree.

Maybe getting a big piece of paper and a pencil out and try to work it out then . I've done so, and with members on here. Maybe there is something I can't see?

If its running late the one in front takes the place, not that hard to work out. The point is to throttle them into Pic (road junction timing being the main limiter on entries to the Undercroft) where they can then reorder themselves. If its continuing it continues, if its for Eccles it waits in the siding at Picc.

If its running late the one in front takes the place, not that hard to work out. The point is to throttle them into Pic (road junction timing being the main limiter on entries to the Undercroft) where they can then reorder themselves. If its continuing it continues, if its for Eccles it waits in the siding at Picc.

Isn't there a crossover/turnback on Sheffield Street?

I emailed Metrolink this morning this

Hello,

Can you tell me is what the expected frequency of
services on the line to Oldham when it initially
opens?

Also, is there any plans to run doubles on the
Oldham line to cope with peak crowding?

Thanks

And this is the reply I got minutes later....

Dear Mr XXXXX

Thank you for your email.

I am sorry we do not have any information on the frequency of the trams
yet as the timetable is still being written.

Kind Regards

Customer Experience Team

What's the actual problem that's stopping the training on the Oldham line at the moment? Also any idea of when it will be sorted?

I think kriis heard from someone at Metrolink that it's signalling issues on the single line section. Don't quote me on that though!

Hi All

Trams are back on the Oldham line again today as I seen a tram going past Freehold this Morning.

EDIT: I think is the 3017 tram that on Oldham line but I'm unsure about that.

Hi All

Trams are back on the Oldham line again today as I seen a tram going past Freehold this Morning.

EDIT: I think is the 3017 tram that on Oldham line but I'm unsure about that.

Great news! I might pop up after work, I've never ever even seen the Oldham line!

I notice on MEN website is taking about tram testing on the Oldham line.

Also martin if u do came up to Oldham line u wil't see a tram as I haven't seen tram this afternoon.

I notice on MEN website is taking about tram testing on the Oldham line.

Also martin if u do came up to Oldham line u wil't see a tram as I haven't seen tram this afternoon.

Said article

Trams on test on the Oldham line.

Regular tests are being carried out on the Oldham Metrolink line - in the hope it will hit its target to open in spring.

The long-awaited line has been delayed due to problems with a new computer control system.

The first half of the line from Victoria to Central Park in Newton Heath had been due to open last spring, with the second half set for last autumn.

But bosses last year put the target for the whole line back to this spring, with news on the final opening date still awaited.

Test trams have now become a regular features on the Oldham line as bosses have been working to iron out problems with the new control system, called TMS.

A report prepared for transport chiefs in March said: "The open date will be subject to technical challenges with the introduction of the Tram Management System.

"By introducing the service direct to Oldham Mumps, the driver training element... can be delivered much more effectively and efficiently than previously envisaged with the original two staged approach."

The report said track and infrastructure including the tram stops are now 'substantially complete'.

It said tram testing from Central Park was being undertaken as part of the overall testing and commissioning of the line.

TMS, which controls the points and signals, caused major disruption during trials at MediaCity in September 2010 and separate problems also delayed the Chorlton extension.

A report said 'technical complexities' were delaying the roll-out of TMS across the expanding network.

It said a delay of between three and six months was likely on the line beyond Oldham to Rochdale - putting that back to autumn or winter this year. The report said a three-month delay on the east Manchester line to Droylsden was also 'likely' - which would also put it back to autumn.

A plan is being considered to run trams to City's Etihad Stadium in advance of the full opening of the Droylsden line.

The new lines are part of a £1.4bn 'Big Bang' Metrolink expansion, which is due to be completed by 2016.

The Chorlton line is due to be extended to Didsbury and to Wythenshawe and the airport, and the Droylsden line will go on to Ashton-under-Lyne. It will make Metrolink the biggest tram network in Britain.

Drivers in Oldham have been facing disruption due to roadworks for the construction of the next phase of the line to Rochdale.

A website has been set up by Oldham council showing travel alerts and areas of congestion.

dean.kirby@men-news.co.uk

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/transport/public_transport/s/1492603_metrolink-trams-testing-on-long-awaited-oldham-line

What's the actual problem that's stopping the training on the Oldham line at the moment? Also any idea of when it will be sorted?
SPAS warning lights probs.:bash:

SPAS warning lights probs.:bash:
wednesday:)

A quick update from the Airport Line: I passed the Northern Moor station site just now and work on the two platforms is well underway. I received a letter as a nearby resident the other day saying that earthmoving was due to take place soon between the M60 and Sale Road to prepare for track laying.

I notice on MEN website is taking about tram testing on the Oldham line.

Also martin if u do came up to Oldham line u wil't see a tram as I haven't seen tram this afternoon.

All being well, they will be training again tomorrow.


SPAS warning lights probs.:bash:

Yep those and the TMS control of the single line. The SPAS stuff only got noticed when the single line TMS stuff broke!

All being well, they will be training again tomorrow.

Yep those and the TMS control of the single line. The SPAS stuff only got noticed when the single line TMS stuff broke!

I don't think the single line is TMS controlled, it is supposed to have a bespoke signalling system. SPAS warning has been overlaid as an extra safety feature.

If TfGM/Metrolink are saying that they're working on the timetable for the Oldham line, then that does sound promising for a Metrolink service to/from Oldham in the near future.

Also, the M.E.N article also says that they're planning to open East Manchester line to the Etihad stadium. Interesting to see when they'll do that, given that Man City only have one match left this season. Possibly targeting the Super League's Magic Weekend at the end of May (26/27)?

If TfGM/Metrolink are saying that they're working on the timetable for the Oldham line, then that does sound promising for a Metrolink service to/from Oldham in the near future.

Also, the M.E.N article also says that they're planning to open East Manchester line to the Etihad stadium. Interesting to see when they'll do that, given that Man City only have one match left this season. Possibly targeting the Super League's Magic Weekend at the end of May (26/27)?

I suspect that the timetable is already prepared but they aren't ready to announce it till trial running has proved it works. There may be alternative options depending on how well the journey times work out.

I read the Etihad item to refer to next season which may allow time to sort out the TMS for Sheffield Street.

All being well, they will be training again tomorrow.

^^^^ Hopely tomorrow then and u could seeing that signal at Dean Lane could be big problems with the Oldham lines if it keep having problems they.

[QUOTE=SF07;90977929]If TfGM/Metrolink are saying that they're working on the timetable for the Oldham line, then that does sound promising for a Metrolink service to/from Oldham in the near future.

Also, the M.E.N article also says that they're planning to open East Manchester line to the Etihad stadium. Interesting to see when they'll do that, given that Man City only have one match left this season. Possibly targeting the Super League's Magic Weekend at the end of May (26/27)?

^^^^ Is does look promsing if TFGM said they working on timetable for Oldham line but I do think it could be over four to six weeks away until is opens, For EML I don't think they will opened it before Oldham line as they already said Oldham line will be next to open but I do think the good chances of that line opening to Velopark in mid of Aug for time of Football season start again.

:banana:

All being well, they will be training again tomorrow.




Yep those and the TMS control of the single line. The SPAS stuff only got noticed when the single line TMS stuff broke!


It does not have tms on the single line section.:ohno:

It does not have tms on the single line section.:ohno:

oki take out the 3 letters "TMS" twice in that message! :lol:

A good bet will be to keep an eye on the DataGM timetable dumps, or search on Traveline for, I guess it'll be 'MET4' (unless it's an extension of the SML, in which case it'll still be MET3)...

If TfGM/Metrolink are saying that they're working on the timetable for the Oldham line, then that does sound promising for a Metrolink service to/from Oldham in the near future.

Also, the M.E.N article also says that they're planning to open East Manchester line to the Etihad stadium. Interesting to see when they'll do that, given that Man City only have one match left this season. Possibly targeting the Super League's Magic Weekend at the end of May (26/27)?

They will have to do live timings before they can finalise the timetable.

So anyone seen any testing action today?? :-D

So anyone seen any testing action today?? :-D

^^^^ Well Martin I just seen one go past Freehold stop so yes they are testing trams today but for have long.

:banana:

Regarding the OT depot, when is this due to open and is it going to take over from the existing depot or run concurrently?

I rode past today on my bike and it all looks rather nice, although slightly like a ghost town

I saw on another thread that a staff member had written they are hoping to have it fully crew operational by the end of this month. I guess TMS plays a factor in that though.

And yes it will operate alongside Queens Rd rather than instead of.

No photos for a whole page so here's a couple from out east today. Nothing major to report but there seems to be a burst of activity between Edge Lane and Droylsden, traffic light sensor cables being set into the road, lots of poles being painted in 'Droylsden Red' and (drum roll) that tiny gap in the rails at Cemetery Road stop has at last been filled...

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/loweskid/Skyscrapercity/_DSC2187.jpg

A while ago I was asking if anyone new why some of the OHLE poles had been installed with the bases sticking out above the pavement, like this....

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/loweskid/Skyscrapercity/_dsc9777.jpg

I don't think anyone answered my question (apologies if you did and I missed it). Anyway, I'm sure you've all been losing sleep at nights worrying about it but now all is revealed...! I realised today that they are the ones that feed the thick power cables to the overhead lines. They must need the gap at the base to feed the cables through....

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc205/loweskid/Skyscrapercity/_DSC2188.jpg


Edit: blimey - 900 pages....!

Heres hoping the EML or part of it will be open in time for the new season, depending on them dreaded 3 letters.:ohno::banana::bash:

A quick update from the Airport Line: I passed the Northern Moor station site just now and work on the two platforms is well underway. I received a letter as a nearby resident the other day saying that earthmoving was due to take place soon between the M60 and Sale Road to prepare for track laying.

Cheers for the info Martin SFP!

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Wythenshawe/Northern%20Moor/102_0020.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Wythenshawe/Northern%20Moor/102_0015.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Wythenshawe/Northern%20Moor/101_9997.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Wythenshawe/Northern%20Moor/101_9996.jpg

The alignment beside Ossington Walk, North of Sale Road and behind Pimmcroft Way, now makes a distinctive elbow to the left as it prepares to rise towards the motorway bridge in the sky! :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Wythenshawe/Northern%20Moor/102_0016.jpg

Can't wait to see the elevation render of that bridge . . .

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Wythenshawe/Northern%20Moor/102_0018.jpg

I think the JCB marks the first sign of activity on the Northern side of the M60, where the line will make an elbow to the left through this green alongside Fairy Lane, prior to its rise up and over to the right :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Wythenshawe/Northern%20Moor/102_0001.jpg

# dpjones - I guess it will be over an hour from Ashton to Rochdale via Metrolink (change at Victoria), but probably not a lot! . . .

# martin2345 - I will be happy to show you around the Oldham line when you're over this way, send us a text or pm. It may be sensible to wait until there is a full timetable of testing, or at least something predictable - I spent another hour above the motorway at Hollinwood this week (thankfully sunny) but came home empty-handed again!

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Oldham/Hollinwood/101_9991.jpg

I think r02 was saying there has only been the occasional odd one out testing today.

# We are a bit short of photos Lowes - come on you snappers! Here's a few odds and sods . . .

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Burry/Queens%20Road/101_9984.jpg
Hmm - looking at that last shot I'm wondering now if those flats might have staircases or lift shafts with a good view of the line . . .hmm . . . sometimes you can get in with a fob or wait until a hoody is coming out and say cheers mate . . .

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Burry/Abraham%20Moss/102_0026.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Droylsden/Velopark/101_9770.jpg

Canalside Crossing in the Springtime :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Droylsden/Clayton%20Hall/Canal%20Cross/101_9755.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Droylsden/Clayton%20Hall/Canal%20Cross/101_9768.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Droylsden/Clayton%20Hall/Canal%20Cross/101_9764.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/zmiscellany/102_0021.jpg

:banana:

Good pictures of SML, Hollinwood and near Piccadilly Johnny and also loweskid:cheers:

I think r02 was saying there has only been the occasional odd one out testing today.

^^^^ Yea Johnny I only seen only one tram out on Oldham line today but saying that yesterday too, I think it been going & back forward from Dean Lane to Mumps today but hopely soon we see more trams on the Oldham line testing the line out.

:banana:

Good pictures of SML, Hollinwood and near Piccadilly Johnny and also loweskid:cheers:



^^^^ Yea Johnny I only seen only one tram out on Oldham line today but saying that yesterday too, I think it been going & back forward from Dean Lane to Mumps today but hopely soon we see more trams on the Oldham line testing the line out.

:banana:

Yep, it's been testing the signalling, now it's been fixed again. Then they need to continue with the driver TRAINERs training, before the trainers can train their trainees. (a lot of trains there! haha) The training of the main chunk of drivers will take about 4 weeks I am told. So probably still another 5 weeks before ghost runs can take place. Apparently there has been word around the Metrolink canteen of an opening date in July... :banana::banana:

Yep, it's been testing the signalling, now it's been fixed again. Then they need to continue with the driver TRAINERs training, before the trainers can train their trainees. (a lot of trains there! haha) The training of the main chunk of drivers will take about 4 weeks I am told. So probably still another 5 weeks before ghost runs can take place. Apparently there has been word around the Metrolink canteen of an opening date in July... :banana::banana:

^^^^ Thanks for that Kriis, To me that seen bit confused about driver training but u said Julyish so I wonder what the chances of Oldham line opening the same day as Chorlton line did (7th July)?

Nice photos of Northern Moor there JDR! Was hoping someone would get some as I'm not a fan of the journey to Wythenshawe.

So I make that 4 stations on the Airport Line where the platforms are in progress - Northern Moor, Moor Road, Benchill and Crossacres, unless some more have sprung up!!

Or open on the 20th anniversary of the full system being in service!

Can someone tell me, at a guess, will a season ticket, say a month, peak time, on the Metrolink from Oldham, be more, less, or roughly the same, as one for the erstwhile heavy rail service?

(too many commas in that sentence!)

Thanks JDR. I live off Pimmcroft and didn't know Northern Moor station had begun!

I'll aim for a walk down Fairy Lane soon with camera.

the M.E.N article also says that they're planning to open East Manchester line to the Etihad stadium. Interesting to see when they'll do that, given that Man City only have one match left this season. Possibly targeting the Super League's Magic Weekend at the end of May (26/27)?


Still going to be around October:down:

Heres hoping the EML or part of it will be open in time for the new season, depending on them dreaded 3 letters.:ohno::banana::bash:

Not a chance:ohno:

Was at Newton Heath at lunch time but not a tram in sight.

Not a chance. Still going to be around October:down:

Cheers TB - (re: Man City line) is that intuition or has it been mentioned before??

:cheers:

Ah! I think I've cracked it.

The "Big Bang" wouldn't be a true Big Bang if all the lines didn't open at once, right?

So. TfGM have come up with this wild TMS issue, just to annoy the Oldhamers cause it must be a funny thing to do, so that, come 2016, they can "solve" this issue and open all the lines at once. In true Big Bang fashion.

No need to thank me :cheers:

Think Oldhamers would kick-off if they have to wait 7 years for a replacement to the Oldham Loop rail service. :)

There's been a lot of trucks around the New Islington stop lately cleaning up a lot of construction material that's been hanging around (pallets of brick, etc), so I wonder if they're getting ready to hand over the first phase of the EML (or if it just means things around that stretch are done, apart from the Sheffield Street junction...)

Cheers for the info Martin SFP!



Great pictures, Johnny. I'll be sure to keep you all updated about what's happening around Northern Moor and Baguley.

Was talking to one of my contacts at Metrolink recently who's involved with the training on the Oldham line and I asked him how many trams are in use when training is happening on Oldham line and he told me that due to vehicle shortages they have only been able to spare one tram for training on Oldham line recently.

Not to sure why Metrolink are suddenly short of units again unless there's a few units out of service for whatever reason at the moment