By the old route, what i mean to say is the original L&Y route through the two tunnels, Werneth and Central.

By the old route, what i mean to say is the original L&Y route through the two tunnels, Werneth and Central.

Ok, Tony, I'm with you now - a bit hard of thinking here, lol... Must be nearly bedtime :)

...Also one last thing, and Im sure others have asked already, what is the deal with just the single set of set of points of leading into Oldham? Do you think they may run a shuttle from Rochdale into the Mumps 2 station? All very interesting as they didnt bother with points at any other location in Oldham. ...

I think it may be so they can get vehicles in for construction and then get a tram in for gauging purposes before they want to open the town centre bit.

A little early, but considering I'm not at home, has anyone seen/heard anything of a tram going up the Oldham line this morning every 12 minutes or is tomorrow the beginning of ghost running services?

... has anyone seen/heard anything of a tram going up the Oldham line this morning every 12 minutes or is tomorrow the beginning of ghost running services?

The plan was for full service pattern from tomorrow (6am), Jack. They will probably be running some vehicles all the way to Oldham today, but I doubt it being a full 12 minute service - but you never know with these things :)

The plan was for full service pattern from tomorrow (6am), Jack. They will probably be running some vehicles all the way to Oldham today, but I doubt it being a full 12 minute service - but you never know with these things :)

Thank you very much Signalman :) I think, even though I won't be able to get on a tram tomorrow, just seeing them running frequently (fingers crossed) will be exciting enough though! :)

Of course it all hinges on a lot of things coming together correctly - iincluding having enough vehicles (trouble getting them out of the new depot) and enough drivers (its a bank holiday), and all the equipment working properly- but yeah, fingers crossed, eh?

With a 10-12 minute service, how are you going to run an express from Mumps to Vic? At any one time, you'll have 2 or 3 vehicles ahead of you on the line, and you've no way of passing them...

Fair point, the Met is quad tracked for much of it's route so this is less of a problem. COULD be done on the ORL with switches (wrong road running) when TMS is running, that single line bit would harm it though.

Clever pathing allows you to do some pretty impressive things, though Metrolink has the City Centre Crossing to contend with which I do understand can screw up even the most sophisticated of timetables.

Fair point, the Met is quad tracked for much of it's route so this is less of a problem. COULD be done on the ORL with switches (wrong road running) when TMS is running, that single line bit would harm it though.

Clever pathing allows you to do some pretty impressive things, though Metrolink has the City Centre Crossing to contend with which I do understand can screw up even the most sophisticated of timetables.

There's not enough infrastructure - in terms of controlled crossovers, for example - and to do anything like that would require *proper* signalling, which TMS isn't (by any stretch of the imagination).
I think that it was very short-sighted (of *someone*) to not have signalling in the network. LoS is fine for street-running sections, but is (or will become), IMO a bit of a nightmare on the segregated sections

Because there is more standing room and therefore greater capacity, plus space for wheelchairs.

^^^^ Fair point Chorlton but do think they should put more seats on M5000 trams.

The blocks are there to make sure nothing passes that shouldn't. The OLE will be isolated beyond the block, and people will be working trackside.

Not sure whether they will be running all the way to Mumps *tomorrow*, they've only been running (empty) from Victoria to the crossover near Monsall for the last 2 days, and it will depend on whether MPT have finished what theyre doing up at Mumps - but the plan is that from 6am on Tuesday they'll be running a full, timetabled service from St Werberghs Rd to Mumps, evicting passengers at Victoria, and running empty from there.

^^^^ Rights thanks for signalman, so hopely tomorrow we might start seeing more trams on the Oldham line then.

A little early, but considering I'm not at home, has anyone seen/heard anything of a tram going up the Oldham line this morning every 12 minutes or is tomorrow the beginning of ghost running services?

^^^^ I haven't seen any trams let Jake and I not think they will have any trams running on the Oldham line today unless they have some running this evening or tonight.

I know people have said that first passenger trams will start running next Monday but I can't seeing that happening, I can see them running ghost service next Monday and Tuesday if everything is ok on the Oldham line and then by Wednesday or Thursday they will open the line, but saying that I said about 7th June and we all know that not going to happen know.

As I said above, ghost service should be running from 6am tomorrow (Tuesday) - not sure about passenger service, but my money's currently on the 12th... provided that the ghost running doesn't show up any problems.

ro2 - could you let me know if you see any regular trams tomorrow -if so I will have a potato pie at 12 noon from the chinese chippy near the Dog Inn!

:cheers:

I think as we get closer to the potential opening, we may have to look out for little signs that they're preparing for a public service, such as the ghost-running or removing the fences that are blocking the access to the platforms. Would be a bit hard to get on the tram if you can't get onto the platform :)

^^^^ Fair point Chorlton but do think they should put more seats on M5000 trams.



But where would they put them?
The law has changed since the T68s were built and now says that they must have space for wheelchair users.

All the remaining T68s and T68As are fitted with TMS....

According to my sources, there are currently 7 T68s without TMS equipment, and about the same number of the newer vehicles which are not capable. This may, of course be outdated info - how recent is yours, Freel07?

I think as we get closer to the potential opening, we may have to look out for little signs that they're preparing for a public service, such as the ghost-running or removing the fences that are blocking the access to the platforms. Would be a bit hard to get on the tram if you can't get onto the platform :)

Get yourself down to Mumps for about 5:50am tomorrow, and watch the first (ghost) one away from Mumps bound for St Werberghs Rd ;)

deleted post

As I said above, ghost service should be running from 6am tomorrow (Tuesday) - not sure about passenger service, but my money's currently on the 12th... provided that the ghost running doesn't show up any problems.

^^^^ So tomorrow will be day the start doing ghost service on oldham line from 6am, but saying that surely trams don't start running until 8am on bank holidays so they will't be start at Mumps at 6am surely? As for opening date 7th June could still happen :) but I be shock if they did open the line in three days time.

ro2 - could you let me know if you see any regular trams tomorrow -if so I will have a potato pie at 12 noon from the chinese chippy near the Dog Inn!

:cheers:

^^^^ Yes Johnny I will contract you if I see any trams going past tomorrow and they should be doing if Singalman is right.

:banana:

But where would they put them?
The law has changed since the T68s were built and now says that they must have space for wheelchair users.

Having less seats doesn't seem like a good idea but I think it works. Firstly, if you travel off peak you're likely to get a seat - that's good as it encourages you to travel off peak if you can. If you travel peak, those travelling the furthest distance are likely to get a seat as they are first on the tram. Those nearer the city centre have to stand but it's a shorter journey - they will potentially overlook the standing up as they know they would be stuck in a traffic jam or in south manchester have a bus go right pass them as it's already full. If we get to the stage where trams are going past as they are already full (Altincham?) then capacity needs to be immediately increased. The new trams increase capacity because more can stand than can sit and doubles might solve the problem for most areas of manchester.

But who will do Rochdale-Victoria on the Metrolink? Nobody. People will use the faster train on that route. That's kind of the beauty of the new line actually, you can use it the other way to catch a train into town.

I hope they will sell an integrated rail / tram ticket to Manchester for the residents of Newhey Milnrow upwards etc and Oldham upwards for integrated tram / train tickets to Leeds for example.

May I just point out, I noticed this a while ago, but there appears to be a switch between the tracks, just between Freehold and the sharp curve to run through to the tunnel. The switch runs against the flow of traffic, so a tram has to pass over it, and then reverse onto the other line. I'm not sure if this is of any use to anyone, but I wonder if there are any others down the line? I was thinking it might be for when the Oldham Town Centre extension opens, trams could test through the streets of Oldham without having to drive all the way down to Newton Heath to come back the opposite way, possibly?

According to my sources, there are currently 7 T68s without TMS equipment, and about the same number of the newer vehicles which are not capable. This may, of course be outdated info - how recent is yours, Freel07?

It may well be my info that's out of date, although I do remember being told that all the T68s had been fitted. Obviously things change though so that could now be wrong.

May I just point out, I noticed this a while ago, but there appears to be a switch between the tracks, just between Freehold and the sharp curve to run through to the tunnel. The switch runs against the flow of traffic, so a tram has to pass over it, and then reverse onto the other line. I'm not sure if this is of any use to anyone, but I wonder if there are any others down the line? I was thinking it might be for when the Oldham Town Centre extension opens, trams could test through the streets of Oldham without having to drive all the way down to Newton Heath to come back the opposite way, possibly?

There are a few of these 'trailing crossovers' but I'm not sure of all their locations. They are intended for emergency use rather than routine reversals. I think that the single trailing turnout at Mumps is most likely temporary for engineering access between the two sections,

May I just point out, I noticed this a while ago, but there appears to be a switch between the tracks, just between Freehold and the sharp curve to run through to the tunnel. The switch runs against the flow of traffic, so a tram has to pass over it, and then reverse onto the other line. I'm not sure if this is of any use to anyone, but I wonder if there are any others down the line? I was thinking it might be for when the Oldham Town Centre extension opens, trams could test through the streets of Oldham without having to drive all the way down to Newton Heath to come back the opposite way, possibly?

Surely that a safety factor! If points are run against the flow of traffic you could never have the situation where a tram was inadvertently switched to wrong way running, it would have to reverse to cross over.

^^^^ So tomorrow will be day the start doing ghost service on oldham line from 6am, but saying that surely trams don't start running until 8am on bank holidays so they will't be start at Mumps at 6am surely? As for opening date 7th June could still happen :) but I be shock if they did open the line in three days time.


It might be a bank hol for the rest of the UK, but it's a normal weekday as far as Metrolink is concerned, so 6am start it is.
7th June is a definite non-starter for passenger service, IMO - if it were to happen I'd bare my a*se in Piccadilly Gardens, lol. They'll need about a week of ghost running for driver familiarisation and training (new route, hazards, junctions and 'signals'). Assuming nowt goes wrong, they'll then open to passengers.
My money is on 12th June at the moment - provided nothing goes wrong.

No longer than a WCML driver from Glasgow to Euston.They change crews at Preston, which is pretty much halfway.

They change crews at Preston, which is pretty much halfway.

Probably to ensure all crews get home at night and don't need boarding out rather than anything else.

Been up through Rochdale and Oldham this evening and had a quick look at how they were getting on with the OLE stringing.
There's a 50m (or so) gap just past the junction of Brook St and Huddersfield Rd, but then it seems to have both roads strung all the way to Milnrow, give or take. Took a couple if photos of the newly strung crossing and the 'mystery points' at Mumps Bridge, but I can't figure out how to post them on here - advice welcome :)

I hope they will sell an integrated rail / tram ticket to Manchester for the residents of Newhey Milnrow upwards etc and Oldham upwards for integrated tram / train tickets to Leeds for example.

Does anyone know if this discussed facility of Network Rail/Manchester Metrolink rail/tram ticketing already exists on a similar basis for the tram users of the Croydon Tramlink, the Sheffield Supertram...or even the newly-upgraded Blackpool tram system ?

Signalman, paste the link you want into the text box.

Then at each end add ..... Easy as that!

Also make an account on Photobucket to host your images.

The metal bridge over Collyhurst Road is now a lovely shade of Metrolink Grey. The road is closed tonight for some reason, relating to the works but Im unsure what they will be doing.

Been up through Rochdale and Oldham this evening and had a quick look at how they were getting on with the OLE stringing.
There's a 50m (or so) gap just past the junction of Brook St and Huddersfield Rd, but then it seems to have both roads strung all the way to Milnrow, give or take. Took a couple if photos of the newly strung crossing and the 'mystery points' at Mumps Bridge, but I can't figure out how to post them on here - advice welcome :)

Cheers signalman for you useful contributions & welcome!

You need to Upload and Save the pics on to an internet site such as Photobucket (first couple of hundred free) or Flickr. Then hold the mouse over the saved image until the codes appear, then copy and paste the - - - code in full on to your reply on here.

Jack these unexpected trailing crossovers are popping up all over the place - quite intriguing as they don't appear on plans. I have been trying to make a list but preoccupied with other things, will get round to it one day. Coming to mind are West Didsbury, just South of Werneth as you mention (I'm sure I've seen that on a video somewhere?), and one hidden behind the industrial units at Clayton. I guess the single line sections could be counted as crossovers as well?

Great pix of the Mumps overhead, backwater, in adverse conditions! All useful historical data.

:cheers::banana:

Sorry to wander off thread for a mo, but a quick plug for the Heaton Park Tramway over the bank holidays -

I went on Sunday, the one day it was p***issing down, but found there's something uniquely atmospheric about electric infrastructure penetrating a dripping wet woodland glade . . . !

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Heaton%20Park%20Tramway/102_1053.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Heaton%20Park%20Tramway/102_1012.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Heaton%20Park%20Tramway/102_1049.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Heaton%20Park%20Tramway/102_1039.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Heaton%20Park%20Tramway/102_1038.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Heaton%20Park%20Tramway/102_1033.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Heaton%20Park%20Tramway/102_1028.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Heaton%20Park%20Tramway/102_1022.jpg

. . . wouldn't you say?

Anyway, the guys up there are doing a great job, including quite a few of our own forummers who give their time, and it's well worth the effort to get there - open again tomorrow!

Back to thread . . .

:banana:

Does anyone know if this discussed facility of Network Rail/Manchester Metrolink rail/tram ticketing already exists on a similar basis for the tram users of the Croydon Tramlink, the Sheffield Supertram...or even the newly-upgraded Blackpool tram system ?

None of the tramway systems offer through ticketing to National Rail destinations outside the conurbation they serve as far as I know. Croydon Tramlink accepts Travelcards as long as they are valid for the relevant zone (3, 4.5.or 6). Nottingham have Bus Tram Train ticket valid in the Greater Nottingham City area. I can't find any train tram tickets for either Sheffield or Midland Metro. I think there is still a rail 3 zone fare system for Metrolink but have no idea how to buy them they certainly don't seem to be advertised.

The chances of through ticketing from a Metrolink Stop to Leeds as discussed are I would imagine zero. Please someone correct me if I am wrong as I would be interested to know.

I know that you can book through from a local Northern station to a Metrolink stop as I have done so from Ashton under Lyne to Altrincham many times. I have to specify whether I want to use Metrolink or nor not from Victoria to Altrincham as the default is train to Victoria, tram to Piccadilly and train from Piccadilly to Altrincham via Stockport. The Metrolink option is dearer.

Signalman, paste the link you want into the text box.

Then at each end add . Easy as that!

Also make an account on Photobucket to host your images.

The metal bridge over Collyhurst Road is now a lovely shade of Metrolink Grey. The road is closed tonight for some reason, relating to the works but Im unsure what they will be doing.

Thanks for that, Tony - I gather that I'll have to host the pics elsewhere, and I can't just upload them to here - Flickr, here I come.

Whatever you have to add at each end, though, didn't appear in your post - just a blank square 'thumbnail' (presumably because the forum software interpreted it as an instruction to link to a picture, and you hadn't included a valid link?)

Collyhusrt Rd, btw, is closed to enable the painting contractors to take down the scaffolding - they started dismantling it on Saturday, and had road closures booked for Saturday, Sunday and today. They should be done by morning...

It might be a bank hol for the rest of the UK, but it's a normal weekday as far as Metrolink is concerned, so 6am start it is.
7th June is a definite non-starter for passenger service, IMO - if it were to happen I'd bare my a*se in Piccadilly Gardens, lol. They'll need about a week of ghost running for driver familiarisation and training (new route, hazards, junctions and 'signals'). Assuming nowt goes wrong, they'll then open to passengers.
My money is on 12th June at the moment - provided nothing goes wrong.

^^^^ :lol: is would be funny if they did open it on Thursday know :) also have they put any singal in on the Oldham line let, as only singal that I can think of is at Dean Lane where is become single tracks?

^^^^ :lol: is would be funny if they did open it on Thursday know :) also have they put any singal in on the Oldham line let, as only singal that I can think of is at Dean Lane where is become single tracks?

That is all there will be. Only signals at junctions or road crossings.
The next signal on the Oldham line will be at the road crossing after Shaw, once the line is open that far...

Does anyone know if this discussed facility of Network Rail/Manchester Metrolink rail/tram ticketing already exists on a similar basis for the tram users of the Croydon Tramlink, the Sheffield Supertram...or even the newly-upgraded Blackpool tram system ?

I'v reposted this and my reply on the general Metrolink thread as I reckon it is more likely to get a response there.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=92064877&postcount=14744

^^^^ :lol: is would be funny if they did open it on Thursday know :) also have they put any singal in on the Oldham line let, as only singal that I can think of is at Dean Lane where is become single tracks?

What else do they need signals for, apart from the single line and the junction?

Sorry to wander off thread for a mo, but a quick plug for the Heaton Park Tramway over the bank holidays -

I went on Sunday, the one day it was p***issing down, but found there's something uniquely atmospheric about electric infrastructure penetrating a dripping wet woodland glade . . . !

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Heaton%20Park%20Tramway/102_1053.jpg

Anyway, the guys up there are doing a great job, including quite a few of our own forummers who give their time, and it's well worth the effort to get there - open again tomorrow!

:banana:

I think that is actually my favourite photo of 623!! It looks better in the park environment than in the sea air of Blackpool IMO. :D

Been up through Rochdale and Oldham this evening and had a quick look at how they were getting on with the OLE stringing.
There's a 50m (or so) gap just past the junction of Brook St and Huddersfield Rd, but then it seems to have both roads strung all the way to Milnrow, give or take. Took a couple if photos of the newly strung crossing and the 'mystery points' at Mumps Bridge, but I can't figure out how to post them on here - advice welcome :)

^^^^ I also use flickr, if u use that u need to created a flickr account if u haven't already then go put the picture onto u flickr homepage, then after u do they u would need to go any picture u what to and go on something called share, then just cope and paste the link onto this website but make sure it say BBCode on it and keep doing it until u finish.

That is all there will be. Only signals at junctions or road crossings.
The next signal on the Oldham line will be at the road crossing after Shaw, once the line is open that far...

What about the Mumps junction? Traffic signals a plenty there.

What about the Mumps junction? Traffic signals a plenty there.

Oh yeah of course!! :lol::lol:

That is all there will be. Only signals at junctions or road crossings.
The next signal on the Oldham line will be at the road crossing after Shaw, once the line is open that far...

What else do they need signals for, apart from the single line and the junction?

^^^^ but surely they would need to have singal in all the way up to Mumps then to let driver know the track is clear?

^^^^ but surely they would need to have singal in all the way up to Mumps then to let driver know the track is clear?

It runs Line Of Sight, like you do in a car. Only need signals when interfacing with other traffic (be that other trams or cars on a road crossing)

^^^^ but surely they would need to have singal in all the way up to Mumps then to let driver know the track is clear?

As has been said, only for road junctions and tram junctions!

It runs Line Of Sight, like you do in a car. Only need signals when interfacing with other traffic (be that other trams or cars on a road crossing)

As has been said, only for road junctions and tram junctions!

^^^^ Ok then but why does the Bury line have singal in then as that same as Oldham line?

Andrew do you read this forum?! Lol, Bury Line is block signalling, Oldham line is Line of Sight!

One day Bury line will also be line of sight...

Andrew do you read this forum?! Lol, Bury Line is block signalling, Oldham line is Line of Sight!

One day Bury line will also be line of sight...

Right ok I got it know, Stupid me :nuts:

^^^^ Ok then but why does the Bury line have singal in then as that same as Oldham line?

Bury line was signalled as a proper railway with track circuits, signals, proper interlocking etc. back in the early 90s - as was the altrincham line from GMEX southwards. The city centre was the only LoS section, and apart from the points detection in the delta is entirely controlled by the UTC controllers aided by the VRS system.
A decision was made that the new extensions would be all LoS with TMS, though.

I didn't mean to sound harsh :-)
It's just all the talk of TMS on this forum, it surprised me a bit from a regular poster such as yourself! :)

Ok, trial run at getting a picture on here...

Mystery points on outbound road at Mumps Bridge/Brook St:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/80040696@N07/7338736552

Close, you need the BBCode from Flickr!

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8009/7338736552_9f7af0a9cc.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/80040696@N07/7338736552/) Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/80040696@N07/7338736552/) by signalman_60 (http://www.flickr.com/people/80040696@N07/), on Flickr

there you go

Click "quote" to see the code :)

I hope they will sell an integrated rail / tram ticket to Manchester for the residents of Newhey Milnrow upwards etc and Oldham upwards for integrated tram / train tickets to Leeds for example.

Although I have discovered that the National Rail Enquiries website doesn't recognise Metrolink stops as destinations, I have always been able to buy a through ticket from the station ticket office at Preston to, e.g. Sale or Crumpsall - it seems you can do this as long as you're not trying to use a railcard!

Close, you need the BBCode from Flickr!

[/URL] [URL="http://www.flickr.com/photos/80040696@N07/7338736552/"]Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/80040696@N07/7338736552/) by signalman_60 (http://www.flickr.com/people/80040696@N07/), on Flickr

there you go

Click "quote" to see the code :)

Thanks for that, Martin - I'm doing this on a smartphone at the moment so I don't appear to have the ability to generate the BBCode.
I see three sets of 'URL' tags, referencing my link, the first is empty, the second has the parameter 'untitled' and the third has my username enclosed. However, I'd I c&p that lot into a post, I only see the 'untitled' and username links, not the thumbnail pic :(

You can buy a through ticket from any National Rail station to any Metrolink station (although railcard discounts are not available on these through fares). Fares from rail stations outside GM are to individual Metrolink stations (each has a code in the National Rail ticketing system, e.g. Bury is G200 from outside GM). Fares from GM rail stations to Metrolink are to Metrolink zones, e.g. Bury, Radcliffe, Whitefield are in Metrolink Zone A. It is possible to book from any Metrolink station to rail stations in GM only. You need to find a ticket machine which says "Single, Return and Season tickets" on the front at the top (I think it was barking to have two totally different types of ticket machine). You then press the large button "Tram, Bus Train Saver", then "Railzones" then whichever rail zone (1, 2 or 3) your destination station is in (shown on a poster at the stop) then single or return, plus one or more adults then the yellow square to the right. Hardly designed to be easy to find!

Sorry to wander off thread for a mo, but a quick plug for the Heaton Park Tramway over the bank holidays -

I went on Sunday, the one day it was p***issing down, but found there's something uniquely atmospheric about electric infrastructure penetrating a dripping wet woodland glade . . . !



http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Heaton%20Park%20Tramway/102_1028.jpg



. . . wouldn't you say?

Anyway, the guys up there are doing a great job, including quite a few of our own forummers who give their time, and it's well worth the effort to get there - open again tomorrow!

Back to thread . . .

:banana:

If my quoting works right, this was my favourite picture - for some reason I really love the reflection of the lampshades against the scenery. (If I have done the quote wrong, it is the last but one picture). There is something 'timeless' about it - if that makes any sense.

I know I say this so much it either loses all meaning or just becomes sycophantic, but JDR I love your photos, and this set demonstrates I love your ability, not just the historical documentation aspect that I usually mention.

Have a smug and proud moment on me !! :cheers:

I can also vouch for the great work that the team at Heaton Park tramway do - and look forward to seeing more and more as it gets extended and they are able to run more trams.

Jack these unexpected trailing crossovers are popping up all over the place - quite intriguing as they don't appear on plans. I have been trying to make a list but preoccupied with other things, will get round to it one day. Coming to mind are West Didsbury, just South of Werneth as you mention (I'm sure I've seen that on a video somewhere?), and one hidden behind the industrial units at Clayton. I guess the single line sections could be counted as crossovers as well?

Great pix of the Mumps overhead, backwater, in adverse conditions! All useful historical data.

:cheers::banana:

Yeah there's one just South of the curve, past Freehold travelling outbound :) speaking of crossovers, I think they need some in the centre of Manchester. Possibly one between Shudehill and Market Street, and on that stretch of straight track between Piccadilly Gardens and Piccadilly and a couple heading down Mosley Street. Wishful thinking, but it could all help if and when another tram fails in Manchester, potentially reducing a grid-lock of 2/3 of the system... :)

Yeah there's one just South of the curve, past Freehold travelling outbound :) speaking of crossovers, I think they need some in the centre of Manchester. Possibly one between Shudehill and Market Street, and on that stretch of straight track between Piccadilly Gardens and Piccadilly and a couple heading down Mosley Street. Wishful thinking, but it could all help if and when another tram fails in Manchester, grid-locking 2/3 of the system... :lol:

I get what you are thinking, but you need to have sufficient room to turn a double back (so roughly 200 ft min). In the case of High St (between Shudehill and Church St) there would be room, but then the swept path (of any tram) may impinge onto the roadway either side (especially on the side nearest the English Lounge/ Co-op - it is narrower there than it looks particularly when buses or lorries are there).

Obviously there is also sods law to consider - in that you can be sure that a failed vehicle would be in the wrong place so would limit the ability to make use of additional crossovers (without putting them in every 200 feet or so !).

Logically the same idea would apply on the segregated sections (additional crossovers that is), and you could put one before and after every station to optimise the ability to 'pass' any failed tram, but cost alone makes this impractical to say nothing of signalling etc (without thought to the intention to make the whole network LoS).

Saying all that, I do agree with you that in the ideal world there would be many more crossovers - this has always been a limitation for rail vehicles or trolley buses.

I get what you are thinking, but you need to have sufficient room to turn a double back (so roughly 200 ft min). In the case of High St (between Shudehill and Church St) there would be room, but then the swept path (of any tram) may impinge onto the roadway either side (especially on the side nearest the English Lounge/ Co-op - it is narrower there than it looks particularly when buses or lorries are there).

Obviously there is also sods law to consider - in that you can be sure that a failed vehicle would be in the wrong place so would limit the ability to make use of additional crossovers (without putting them in every 200 feet or so !).

Logically the same idea would apply on the segregated sections (additional crossovers that is), and you could put one before and after every station to optimise the ability to 'pass' any failed tram, but cost alone makes this impractical to say nothing of signalling etc (without thought to the intention to make the whole network LoS).

Saying all that, I do agree with you that in the ideal world there would be many more crossovers - this has always been a limitation for rail vehicles or trolley buses.

I completely agree! By the way I'm sorry for editing my post after you'd already begun your reply, I just felt my post could have been a little better worded, lol :) yeah if buses fail then others can simply drive around it, but I guess the whole reliability issue of the Metrolink network, and indeed every rail network needs to be up to the highest standard to avoid, or at least severely reduce delays :)

This is a thing that seems to get overlooked by the MEN mafia when there is a service disruption on Metrolink.

Buses, vans, lorries, cars etc break down all the time (if they didn't there would not be so many recovery firms !), but in most cases it is possible - even if not convenient - to divert around the obstacle.

Even on the mainline railway network there are often more possible options for passing a failed vehicle.

This always seems to be overlooked when a tram breaks down - you can't put the indicators on and overtake it.

In a perfect world they wouldn't break down - but this is the real world and machinery breaks (no matter how well it is looked after).

I often wonder how happy the MEN moaners would be if Metrolink was dismantled (as so many of them seem to want), when they were stuck in inordinately long traffic jams (just because of the volume of cars that would be back on the roads) which were then made worse by breakdowns and accidents.

I suspect that they would be writing to MEN in their hoards saying 'We should have an urban mass transit system - perhaps trams like other cities have'.

Tickets for Metrolink!

Supposing if trams are in full service to Oldham next week. I would like to take a train from Ashton to Victoria (return) and take a tram to Oldham Mumps (return). What would be the best ticket to use for the train/tram journey?

This is a thing that seems to get overlooked by the MEN mafia when there is a service disruption on Metrolink.

Buses, vans, lorries, cars etc break down all the time (if they didn't there would not be so many recovery firms !), but in most cases it is possible - even if not convenient - to divert around the obstacle.

Even on the mainline railway network there are often more possible options for passing a failed vehicle.

This always seems to be overlooked when a tram breaks down - you can't put the indicators on and overtake it.

In a perfect world they wouldn't break down - but this is the real world and machinery breaks (no matter how well it is looked after).

I often wonder how happy the MEN moaners would be if Metrolink was dismantled (as so many of them seem to want), when they were stuck in inordinately long traffic jams (just because of the volume of cars that would be back on the roads) which were then made worse by breakdowns and accidents.

I suspect that they would be writing to MEN in their hoards saying 'We should have an urban mass transit system - perhaps trams like other cities have'.

Heavy rail networks have more possibly routes. For example, Manchester Victoria to Leeds has 3 possible routes: Stalybridge, Dewsbury via Rochdale and Bradford via Rochdale. If a train breaks down on a mainline, then services between the two terminating stations can continue fairly normally, but due to Metrolink only having 1 line to each destination, a single failure has the potential to cause massive problems! Hopefully the introduction of the 2CC will result in better cross-city movements.

If a tram breaks down at Market Street, Bury - Altrincham and Oldham/Rochdale - St Werburghs Road/Didsbury services can still continue, and by that time the Cornbrook to MediaCity UK (which could be extended to Eccles) services will be run because the TMS will almost definitely be working by 2016. The Piccadilly - Droylsden/Ashton service could still operate if there are any trams on the section at the time.

The only station really missing out is Piccadilly Gardens, which is situated immediately adjacent to two bus stations, so the 2CC will cause massive improvements :) can't wait for these extensions to be completed.

Tickets for Metrolink!

Supposing if trams are in full service to Oldham next week. I would like to take a train from Ashton to Victoria (return) and take a tram to Oldham Mumps (return). What would be the best ticket to use for the train/tram journey?

You could get a System One DaySaver (Tram & Train), but they're £7.20 :ohno:

Heavy rail networks have more possibly routes. For example, Manchester Victoria to Leeds has 3 possible routes: Stalybridge, Dewsbury via Rochdale and Bradford via Rochdale. If a train breaks down on a mainline, then services between the two terminating stations can continue fairly normally, but due to Metrolink only having 1 line to each destination, a single failure has the potential to cause massive problems! Hopefully the introduction of the 2CC will result in better cross-city movements.

If a tram breaks down at Market Street, Bury - Altrincham and Oldham/Rochdale - St Werburghs Road/Didsbury services can still continue, and by that time the Cornbrook to MediaCity UK (which could be extended to Eccles) services will be run because the TMS will almost definitely be working by 2016. The Piccadilly - Droylsden/Ashton service could still operate if there are any trams on the section at the time.

The only station really missing out is Piccadilly Gardens, which is situated immediately adjacent to two bus stations, so the 2CC will cause massive improvements :) can't wait for these extensions to be completed.

Absolutely - I think 2CC will make a huge difference if there are problems in the city centre - especially from a public/normal* user perspective.

(*normal meaning non enthusiast, and therefore blissfully unaware of any of the implications of problems, issues and limitations).

Well, it's happening, folks - ghost service on the Oldham line as far as mumps started at 6am.
It looks like there are about 8 or 9 vehicles out running the St Werberghs to Mumps route on a 12 minute service :)

Absolutely - I think 2CC will make a huge difference if there are problems in the city centre - especially from a public/normal* user perspective.

(*normal meaning non enthusiast, and therefore blissfully unaware of any of the implications of problems, issues and limitations).

I do think most of the people who use the metrolink just don't care and want to get from A-B, lol :) exciting times for Metrolink!

Well, it's happening, folks - ghost service on the Oldham line as far as mumps started at 6am.
It looks like there are about 8 or 9 vehicles out running the St Werberghs to Mumps route on a 12 minute service :)

Just woken up by a tram travel inbound about 9 minutes ago, and then heard an outbound rolling up to Freehold platform and saw it about a minute later. Exciting!

Just woken up by a tram travel inbound about 9 minutes ago, and then heard an outbound rolling up to Freehold platform and saw it about a minute later. Exciting!

Great stuff, thanks for the update.

Well, it's happening, folks - ghost service on the Oldham line as far as mumps started at 6am.
It looks like there are about 8 or 9 vehicles out running the St Werberghs to Mumps route on a 12 minute service :)

It should be 9 according to the timetable data :D

It should be 9 according to the timetable data :D

Where did you read that, kriis? AFAIK it's always been the intention to do 12m (5tph) initially, rising to 6m (10tph)...

And they're currently departing from mumps at 12m intervals - one went at 8:24 and the 8:36 us linied up, ready to go, as I type...

... And off he goes...

Where did you read that, kriis? AFAIK it's always been the intention to do 12m (5tph) initially, rising to 6m (10tph)...

And they're currently departing from mumps at 12m intervals - one went at 8:24 and the 8:36 us linied up, ready to go, as I type...

Are you at Mumps right now?

Where did you read that, kriis? AFAIK it's always been the intention to do 12m (5tph) initially, rising to 6m (10tph)...

And they're currently departing from mumps at 12m intervals - one went at 8:24 and the 8:36 us linied up, ready to go, as I type...

I meant 9 vehicles (you said about 8 or 9) :lol::lol:

BTW what sort of time do they arrive?? The timetable makes out that they arrive and have an 11min wait until they leave for st werburghs rd.

Signalling problems on the Bury line between Victoria and Bury. Hell.

Signalling problems on the Bury line between Victoria and Bury. Hell.

Good. They need to have some problems to see how they deal with them.

Even a team breaking down at shudehill would be good today to see
How the signalling deals with trams bunching up.

Good. They need to have some problems to see how they deal with them.

Even a team breaking down at shudehill would be good today to see
How the signalling deals with trams bunching up.

I was thinking that, but what if the Oldham line is the cause of the signalling problems? I was actually looking forward to it opening then. Looks like Winter now :lol:

Woops - :ohno: I was just about to dash over to get some pix of the Oldham line!!! :runaway: :nuts:

Could someone let me know if the ORL testing has stopped or if it starts again?? before Winter if poss . . .!

:cheers:

Woops - :ohno: I was just about to dash over to get some pix of the Oldham line!!! :runaway: :nuts:

Could someone let me know if the ORL testing has stopped or if it starts again?? before Winter if poss . . .!

:cheers:

I'm watching the tracks intently from my window, I shall let you know if any go past :)

My granddad has just said, and please don't quote me on this because he might be winding me up, but he said he spoke to the workers and they said 12 weeks til the Oldham line opens. Not sure if it's correct so please don't hold me to it.

I was thinking that, but what if the Oldham line is the cause of the signalling problems? I was actually looking forward to it opening then. Looks like Winter now :lol:

It'll just be teething problems hopefully.

The chorlton line caused some problems with signalling and computers crashing before it officially opened to the public if I remember rightly.

My granddad has just said, and please don't quote me on this because he might be winding me up, but he said he spoke to the workers and they said 12 weeks til the Oldham line opens. Not sure if it's correct so please don't hold me to it.

Im not buying that at all unless they have major problems with it.

Im not buying that at all unless they have major problems with it.

Yeah I didn't believe him either. I mean, they've got the platform destination boards lit up (or at least they did) with Mumps - 11 mins and Mumps - 23 mins when they were running, but unfortunately now, I haven't seen a tram in half an hour. Something is definitely wrong, but I think 12 weeks is far too pessimistic.

Edit: I'm about to walk past the Freehold stop. I'll see what the destination board says and put it on here. Fingers crossed.

It's great to have someone who can give us real time info Jack, much appreciated!

You're very welcome :) I checked the board, it's empty. No trams :ohno:

Yes we're getting quite a collection of people at strategic points across the network!

Ah well, I suppose it's as well to get the gremlins sorted out at this stage while there are no people on! Pity it had to ***uck up the Bury line as well, although that is now showing 'delays' as opposed to 'no service' earlier. The fault was apparently at Victoria, so it may not be directly resulting from the ORL testing.

Where did you read that, kriis? AFAIK it's always been the intention to do 12m (5tph) initially, rising to 6m (10tph)...

And they're currently departing from mumps at 12m intervals - one went at 8:24 and the 8:36 us linied up, ready to go, as I type...

Yes but they are running through to St Werburghs so 9 would seem right.

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Heaton%20Park%20Tramway/102_1049.jpg

Thanks for your kind comments Clunk & Kriis (sounds like a Jimmy Savile advert!)

The above is another of my favourites, even with the big metal box in the middle (without it would be exquisite) - the warm and cosy lamp enclosing us protectively between the two roads going their separate ways in the saturated woodland. I remember similar lamps on the 1938 Bakerloo line stock (still around in the 1960s - I'm not that old although I was accused of being 90 the other week!) - a bit gloomy in the tunnels and they used to plunge the whole train into darkness for a couple of seconds at section gaps. The whole scene is enchanting at Heaton Park - it also reminds me of a TV film in the 1970s, when they escape from the evil Snow Queen in a golden tramcar with trolley pole, by turning a long-forgotten point into a disused woodland line . . .Right, time to stop reminiscing and get back to reality Johnny

I guess it's still 'No Trams to Mump Street' . . . ?

:cucumber:

I have a good view of the Suthers Street bridge in Chadderton from where I live and the trams have been running regular all morning

Unfortunately, due to me currently being situated downstairs on the opposite side of the house from the line, with these old terraced Victorian houses having walls that could give a tank a run for it's money, I haven't heard any. Now that's not saying there haven't been any, but when I walked past Freehold, the Passenger Display Destination Board thing had absolutely no writing on it whatsoever. Is it working again now? (I could quite easily just walk upstairs and sit on my bed and watch for a few minutes, but I'm buried under lots of work, and plus I can't be bothered walking upstairs :) )

Trams have been running up and Oldham line today and they seen to be more ofter than 12 mins as is to be every 6 mins.

I couldn't say they were running at any sort of schedule, but since my first post 30mins ago I've glimpsed two trams heading towards Mumps.

Welcome Chaddy - yet another outposted eye on the line! Just put the washer on, but I might risk it this afternoon . . .

:banana:

Welcome Chaddy - yet another outposted eye on the line! Just put the washer on, but I might risk it this afternoon . . .

Go on Johnny! Risk it! :lol:

They seen to be more ofter going to Mumps than they are going to Manchester for somereason.

I notice one way up to Mumps at 1155 but I haven't see it come back and i haven't seen any going to mumps about 25 mins know.

Tram passing Freehold inbound :)

Also, completely off topic but someone is playing Superstitious - Stevie Wonder. Awesome bit of background music :)

Is they problem on any of metrolink as I haven't seen tram going to mumps for a bit know but two tram space in 2 mins of each other how go down to manchester.

Is they problem on any of metrolink as I haven't seen tram going to mumps for a bit know but two tram space in 2 mins of each other how go down to manchester.

There's still delays to services on the Bury line, so perhaps their priority is to get as many trams through between Bury and Victoria as they can? The Oldham line isn't as important as the Bury line, due to the fact they're just playing with it at the moment and there are no passengers, and a tram to Oldham would take up valuable paths between Victoria and Queen's Road? Just my view :)

Also, completely off topic but someone is playing Superstitious - Stevie Wonder. Awesome bit of background music :)

That music might be coming from my street as they might be having street party.

That music might be coming from my street as they might be having street party.

Yes it did sound as though it was coming from over there actually! Bredbury Street is too boring for a street party :lol:

Yes it did sound as though it was coming from over there actually! Bredbury Street is too boring for a street party :lol:

^^^^ from what i hear they only going to be 6 people at this party from agnes street

^^^^ from what i hear they only going to be 6 people at this party from agnes street

That's hardly a street party :( if only the Metrolink was open, you could have put posters up on the platform and get loads of people there, haha :)

I am now going to sit in my room for a few hours, but I'm going to be very (helpful/annoying?) and record every time a tram passes and the direction it travels in, just for my own amusement. I'll happily post it on here though if anyone is interested :lol:

That music might be coming from my street as they might be having street party.

Could be someone replaying the TV concert last night. See if we get Paul McCartney next! Great news about the trams running - let's hope the gremlins get sorted.

I am now going to sit in my room for a few hours, but I'm going to be very (helpful/annoying?) and record every time a tram passes and the direction it travels in, just for my own amusement. I'll happily post it on here though if anyone is interested :lol:

^^^^ u might be waiting for bit Jake as I think they will't be senting are trams up to Mumps if still problem at victoria.

13:51 Delays/Bury Service

Metrolink services

Due to an earlier signal and points fault in the Victoria area,some passengers may experience delays on the Bury line and on the Oldham line.

A 6 minute service is operating on the Altrincham line.

A 12 minute service is operating on the Eccles/MediaCityUK line.

A 12 minute service is operating on the South Manchester line from St Werburgh's Road to Victoria.

^^^^ u might be waiting for bit Jake as I think they will't be senting are trams up to Mumps if still problem at victoria.



wait wait wait, it says delays on the Bury and Oldham line... the Oldham line isn't open. How confusing...

Oh no never mind, I just checked the website, you added in the "Oldham", okay that makes more sense, haha :)

Are any new trams running, ie 3027 or above?

Are you at Mumps right now?

I was... Just passing through...

I meant 9 vehicles (you said about 8 or 9) :lol::lol:

Ah, ok - I'm a bit slow this morning, lol

Yes we're getting quite a collection of people at strategic points across the network!

Ah well, I suppose it's as well to get the gremlins sorted out at this stage while there are no people on! Pity it had to ***uck up the Bury line as well, although that is now showing 'delays' as opposed to 'no service' earlier. The fault was apparently at Victoria, so it may not be directly resulting from the ORL testing.

AFAIK, the problem was with points/signal at Irk Valley Junction - which meant that they couldn't get trams into vic from bury - and not a systemic fault, so shouldn't impact too much on the passenger opening date. I'd guess it'll add a day on, so my money is on 13th June now, as long as they sort this issue out today, and there aren't any further problems...

AFAIK, the problem was with points/signal at Irk Valley Junction - which meant that they couldn't get trams into vic from bury - and not a systemic fault, so shouldn't impact too much on the passenger opening date. I'd guess it'll add a day on, so my money is on 13th June now, as long as they sort this issue out today, and there aren't any further problems...

Not sure why it'd add another day on?

According to the website it's running again now

Not sure why it'd add another day on?

According to the website it's running again now

Just surmising that they'll write off today as a valid ghost running day, given the problems. I'd have thought that they'd want to run a whole weeks worth of timetabled running without major problems before opening to passenger service, but that's only my guess

Just surmising that they'll write off today as a valid ghost running day, given the problems. I'd have thought that they'd want to run a whole weeks worth of timetabled running without major problems before opening to passenger service, but that's only my guess

^^^^ Couldn't they running so testing a night when the SML Services is not running, so they can have trams running from St Werburgh's Road to Oldham Mumps?

It says a 6 minute service on the Altrincham line, and a 12 minute service on the Eccles and SML... is there no service on the Bury line or are trams just very, erm, what's the world... all over the place...?

Just came under the Oldham line inter-connection at Collyhurst. No less than 5 M5000s in a row all waiting to exit onto the Bury line. 5!!

Just came under the Oldham line inter-connection at Collyhurst. No less than 5 M5000s in a row all waiting to exit onto the Bury line. 5!!

^^^^ they much been waiting for bit then as I haven't seen any trams come up Oldham line this afternoon.

http://datagm.org.uk/package/atco-cif - the zip contains every bus and tram timetable in Greater Manchester - the GM_MET3_.CIF file is the one you're looking for :)

(and this is the spec of the file, if you ever want to try and read it in more detail! http://travelinedata.org.uk/CIF/atco-cif-spec.pdf)

Over the weekend I wrote a tool to convert the Metrolink ATCO_CIF files to a more readable spreadsheet format.

Looking at the different timetables, it shows that passengers on the Oldham line wanting to get to Piccadilly Station (like many of my former work colleagues) will have a 10 minute transfer at Victoria. In the other direction the transfer is a slightly more acceptable 6 Minutes.

A 12 minute service between Manchester's two major stations is not enough!

Yeah some had St Werburghs on the side, some tram on test. So I presume the service trams are caught up in, what ever signalling problem was occuring.

^^^^ Couldn't they running so testing a night when the SML Services is not running, so they can have trams running from St Werburgh's Road to Oldham Mumps?

It's not really feasible to run at night at this stage - the idea at the moment is to do driver familiarisation, and test the new timetabled moves across the junction - 2 main probs with trying that at night are: 1) you need a load of vehicles running backwards and forwards, and because of that (and the fact that you're also trying to do route familiarisation for the drivers) you need lots of drivers out.
That gives you further problems, in that if the drivers ate out during the night, they can't be out during the day, and they'll want paying, of course = lots of cost...

A 12 minute service between Manchester's two major stations is not enough!

How about when Hub provides 4tph each way as well, two of which are from Rochdale (ignoring the other 5tph Rochdale -> Vic)?

Not to mention, another reason that they're testing the service with the Bury line running is to make sure Irk Valley Junction can cope (which it clearly can't) and the last tram through Irk Valley Junction is around 22:44/23:57/00:57 so it wouldn't be an accurate representation of the lines when in full swing.

Not to mention, another reason that they're testing the service with the Bury line running is to make sure Irk Valley Junction can cope (which it clearly can't) and the last tram through Irk Valley Junction is around 22:44/23:57/00:57 so it wouldn't be an accurate representation of the lines when in full swing.

It depends what you mean by "can't cope", Jack ...

It depends what you mean by "can't cope", Jack ...

Well just with the whole signalling issue today, point and signal failure. I mean, 5 trams queuing along Smedley Viaduct to jump on to the Bury line, I wouldn't exactly call that working :ohno:

It's not really feasible to run at night at this stage - the idea at the moment is to do driver familiarisation, and test the new timetabled moves across the junction - 2 main probs with trying that at night are: 1) you need a load of vehicles running backwards and forwards, and because of that (and the fact that you're also trying to do route familiarisation for the drivers) you need lots of drivers out.
That gives you further problems, in that if the drivers ate out during the night, they can't be out during the day, and they'll want paying, of course = lots of cost...

^^^^ That true and driver will what to pay more for doing it at night, but aleast they never set a date so they could open Oldham line whenever they what to.

Over the weekend I wrote a tool to convert the Metrolink ATCO_CIF files to a more readable spreadsheet format.

Looking at the different timetables, it shows that passengers on the Oldham line wanting to get to Piccadilly Station (like many of my former work colleagues) will have a 10 minute transfer at Victoria. In the other direction the transfer is a slightly more acceptable 6 Minutes.

A 12 minute service between Manchester's two major stations is not enough!

^^^^ But surely if anyone who live on the Oldham line and what to go to Piccadilly station, then it would be better to get off at Market Street and walk to Piccadilly garden, becuase u got about three trams to catch they.

Well just with the whole signalling issue today, point and signal failure. I mean, 5 trams queuing along Smedley Viaduct to jump on to the Bury line, I wouldn't exactly call that working :ohno:

It sounds more like a technical failure somewhere has caused the ghost service to be suspended and those 5 trams are trapped waiting to return to Old Trafford. Not that the junction cannot cope!

Well just with the whole signalling issue today, point and signal failure. I mean, 5 trams queuing along Smedley Viaduct to jump on to the Bury line, I wouldn't exactly call that working :ohno:

The fact that there are so many queued up suggests to me that they're currently not swinging the points while they diagnose the problem. Having got the trams moving again on the Bury line, they won't want to risk getting into a situation where traffic is disrupted again.
I'd put money on this being a simple equipment failure rather than a systemic problem of the junction not being able to cope with the traffic levels.

It sounds more like a technical failure somewhere has caused the ghost service to be suspended and those 5 trams are trapped waiting to return to Old Trafford. Not that the junction cannot cope!

Agreed, Freel07 - and if I understand correctly, 6 of the 9 trams running up the Oldham line today cane out of Trafford depot this morning, the other 3 came out of Queens Rd

Okay I retract my comment earlier about the junction not being able to cope :)

I hope this problem doesn't put the opening date back any further, as I'm quite looking forward to being on the first tram (albeit, it'll be a short journey as I'll be getting on at Freehold) :lol:

Agreed, Freel07 - and if I understand correctly, 6 of the 9 trams running up the Oldham line today cane out of Trafford depot this morning, the other 3 came out of Queens Rd

So what's happened to the Chrolton service if 5 are stuck at Irk Valley?

So what's happened to the Chrolton service if 5 are stuck at Irk Valley?

Presumably the other 4 are out there doing St Werberghs to Vic...

Okay I retract my comment earlier about the junction not being able to cope :)

I hope this problem doesn't put the opening date back any further, as I'm quite looking forward to being on the first tram (albeit, it'll be a short journey as I'll be getting on at Freehold) :lol:

Lol...
I think it might put it back a day, as I'm sure that'll want to do a full 7-day timetabled ghost service before opening - my money's still on next Wednesday at the moment.

Lol...
I think it might put it back a day, as I'm sure that'll want to do a full 7-day timetabled ghost service before opening - my money's still on next Wednesday at the moment.

Well, at least we know it'll be open some time in the next fortnight anyway, lol.

So what's happened to the Chrolton service if 5 are stuck at Irk Valley?

The PIDs were announcing 20-25 minutes to the next tram!

Are any new trams running, ie 3027 or above?

All that has been mentioned is 3027/28/30 are getting the old equipment installed. (I've been keeping a close eye on new tram developments).



Over the weekend I wrote a tool to convert the Metrolink ATCO_CIF files to a more readable spreadsheet format.

Looking at the different timetables, it shows that passengers on the Oldham line wanting to get to Piccadilly Station (like many of my former work colleagues) will have a 10 minute transfer at Victoria. In the other direction the transfer is a slightly more acceptable 6 Minutes.

A 12 minute service between Manchester's two major stations is not enough!

They do read into a headache. Once you get used to them they aren't that bad. Have you turned all the timetables into spreadsheets then? I've turned the northbound Chorlton/Oldham/Met3 into a timetable so far.

The PIDs were announcing 20-25 to the next tram!

On the Oldham line?

On the Oldham line?

No,on the Chorlton line.

Did everything went ok with OT Depot today?

Blimey, five pages from today alone.
Thanks for the excellent updates everyone, hope we get some photos soon!

Moving south for a moment, a few Airport line Jacksons Bridge photos before todays rain came.

Nothing much looking towards the station
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z349/Uploads1971/a12d47b2.jpg

But towards the Mersey...
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z349/Uploads1971/ddc134fd.jpg

Uprights on the Trafford side
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z349/Uploads1971/9d8be919.jpg

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z349/Uploads1971/3832fbb8.jpg

This view is going very soon
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z349/Uploads1971/6e35f9db.jpg

And the Manchester side. The approach slope is starting to appear
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z349/Uploads1971/95a82732.jpg

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z349/Uploads1971/18dfd3a5.jpg

Blimey, five pages from today alone.
Thanks for the excellent updates everyone, hope we get some photos soon!

^^^^ I might try and get some picture tomorrow if trams are back running on Oldham line that is.

Can see people have been talking about this below but this is what I heard while on the tram. There was a points faliure between the Bury and Oldham line this morning. Driver put it over the tannoy after saying the Bury line was suspended and engineers were on site trying to fix the problem.

So what's happened to the Chrolton service if 5 are stuck at Irk Valley?

One of the trapped ones will have been replaced by a spare from either Queens Road or Old Trafford.

They could have driven the trams back down Smedley viaduct, into the depot via that new link, and then out the traditional way onto the Bury line, then into Manchester on the Bury line...or is that just far too complicated?

Trams are back on the Oldham line as I just seen tram entry into Freehold stop going to Mumps.

EDIT: A other tram in space of two mins have entry freehold stop going to mumps but i'm unsure what numbers they are.

They could have driven the trams back down Smedley viaduct, into the depot via that new link, and then out the traditional way onto the Bury line, then into Manchester on the Bury line...or is that just far too complicated?

Thought the Bury line was suspended!

No, just delays all day

And the Manchester side. The approach slope is starting to appear
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z349/Uploads1971/95a82732.jpg



Why is it on piles? Why not build an embankment?
I realise that vehicular and pedestrian access is required under it, but it seems an expensive solution.

Why is it on piles? Why not build an embankment?
I realise that vehicular and pedestrian access is required under it, but it seems an expensive solution.

An embankment would need piling as well to make sure the track bed didn't move/sink anyway.

They could have driven the trams back down Smedley viaduct, into the depot via that new link, and then out the traditional way onto the Bury line, then into Manchester on the Bury line...or is that just far too complicated?

It's *possible* to do that, yes... Especially on a day like today where there would have been almost nothing in the yard... BUT... It's a hellish complicated move involving changing ends twice and potentially further disrupting the bury line as they inject the extra trams onto the inbound road (don't forget they will have to cross the outbound to get out again so they disrupt both roads)
Added to that, I believe that there is an existing problem with the depot entrance/exit onto the Oldham line which means that they can't easily use it at the moment.

An embankment would need piling as well to make sure the track bed didn't move/sink anyway.

Also isn't it part of the flood plain and so there can be no embankment to impede the flow of the excess water from the river.

It's *possible* to do that, yes... Especially on a day like today where there would have been almost nothing in the yard... BUT... It's a hellish complicated move involving changing ends twice and potentially further disrupting the bury line as they inject the extra trams onto the inbound road (don't forget they will have to cross the outbound to get out again so they disrupt both roads)
Added to that, I believe that there is an existing problem with the depot entrance/exit onto the Oldham line which means that they can't easily use it at the moment.

The Smedley Junction is n't commissioned yet. The trams involved are most likely from Old Trafford and Queens Road is now struggling to cope which is why the Old Trafford capacity is being used. Obviously it would seem that running up to Oldham has now started again for the evening.

It's *possible* to do that, yes... Especially on a day like today where there would have been almost nothing in the yard... BUT... It's a hellish complicated move involving changing ends twice and potentially further disrupting the bury line as they inject the extra trams onto the inbound road (don't forget they will have to cross the outbound to get out again so they disrupt both roads)
Added to that, I believe that there is an existing problem with the depot entrance/exit onto the Oldham line which means that they can't easily use it at the moment.

Ah yes I heard that the new link between the depot and the Oldham line is being operated by TMS, well, when it starts behaving. I agree though, it would have been far more practical just for the trams to wait behind the junction on the Smedley viaduct, it was just an idea whirring around in my head :lol: but I just read that trams are all over the Oldham line again now so it must all be working :banana:

I decided to take a chance and try to get a few photos of trams between Werneth and Mumps this afternoon. Of course I was distinctly unsuccessful due to the temporary suspension of the ghost service. However I did manage a few shots of construction work on the Town Centre section which I will post shortly.

Why is it on piles? Why not build an embankment?
I realise that vehicular and pedestrian access is required under it, but it seems an expensive solution.

It's probably not so expensive when you consider at least part of the site is land fill and would need consolidating anyway.

I think 3006 just passed Freehold outbound. If it is 3006, then my eyes are bloody good, but don't hold me to it lol.

An embankment would need piling as well to make sure the track bed didn't move/sink anyway.

Not normally

Also isn't it part of the flood plain and so there can be no embankment to impede the flow of the excess water from the river.

That makes sense.

No, just delays all day

Arrived in Bury a short time ago by tram. At Irk Valley Junction, I saw an inward bound tram on the Smedley Viaduct curve with 'St. Werburgh's Road' on the indicator.

Train Guard

As mentioned earlier I was in Oldham this afternoon hoping for a few shots of trams at Werneth and Mumps. However I made use of the visit to take some shots of construction works on the Town Centre section.

I noticed that the tunnel section at John Street behind King Street is now advancing although the Co-op Funeral Parlour is still blocking the eastern end of the works. From the depth of this tunnel it would seem that the ramp up from Manchester Street won't be quite as steep as we thought.
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae333/freel07/Metrolink/P1010413a.jpg

http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae333/freel07/Metrolink/P1010426a-1.jpg

http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae333/freel07/Metrolink/P1010427a.jpg

http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae333/freel07/Metrolink/P1010438a.jpg

There is a mighty big shaft being formed for sewers on Union Street. This piece of equipment looks almost like a vertical tunnel boring machine.
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae333/freel07/Metrolink/P1010440a-1.jpg

I also took a few photos of the newly wired section across the new road junction at Mumps. Its interesting to see that the arms for the street section wiring have been fitted already by the temporary points.
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae333/freel07/Metrolink/P1010463a.jpg[/IMG]"] ("http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae333/freel07/Metrolink/P1010454a.jpg

http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae333/freel07/Metrolink/P1010452a-1.jpg

http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae333/freel07/Metrolink/P1010448a-1.jpg

A slightly better shot than I managed last week of the new grooved rail leading to the street section immediately west of the temporary line crossing.
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae333/freel07/Metrolink/P1010447a.jpg

Destination Display thing at Freehold is indicating a tram due heading inbound.

Yes I've processed all three CIF files.
If you can send me an Email address via message I'll send you a copy.

Had a walk down to Morrisons in Hollinwood earlier and as I went past the tram stop, I thought I'd have a little nosey. Walked up the footpath to the bridge that crosses the motorway, looked up at the platform and saw the PID flashing 'Oldham Mumps' 'Approaching' and then 10 seconds later a tram (3025) arrived. :banana:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/182394_10150923474029500_1479303019_n.jpg

Had another look on the way back and the PID on the Manchester-bound platform was blank for a few mins then it flashed up saying 'St Werburghs Road 7 mins' with 'Oldham Mumps 13 mins' on the other side.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/255431_10150923474164500_513124499_9440929_777383445_n.jpg

Tram (3012) at Hollinwood to Manchester:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/525919_10150923474334500_309432489_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/196101_10150923474469500_513124499_9440931_126052194_n.jpg

Tram to Oldham Mumps:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/550428_10150923474629500_1585983976_n.jpg

Those photo's look brilliant! The Oldham town centre extension and the ones at Hollinwood! I attend the Sixth Form adjacent to the new tunnel near Manchester Street Roundabout, but never been able to get close to it. Looks brilliant, although it's a bit strange that the temporary line isn't even open yet (not quite anyway), and the town centre line is progressing at quite an incredible rate.

Good picture SF07 and Freel07 :cheers: I have to say looking at Freel07 picture of Mumps, is look better know that the have wires up and I notice 3025 tram on sf07 picture, will the be Oldham tram as I seen that tram come up quite lot.

EDIT: Sorry marni1971 but good picture of SML too :cheers:

:banana:

Had a walk down to Morrisons in Hollinwood earlier and as I went past the tram stop, I thought I'd have a little nosey. Walked up the footpath to the bridge that crosses the motorway, looked up at the platform and saw the PID flashing 'Oldham Mumps' 'Approaching' and then 10 seconds later a tram (3025) arrived. :banana:



Great to see the trams running again up to Oldham, lets hope things go better tomorrow!

Great to see the trams running again up to Oldham, lets hope things go better tomorrow!

Yep! Fingers crossed for no calamities at rush hour!

Great photos and live updates today - thanks everyone!

I didn't realise the Oldham town centre section was to feature a tunnel - I thought they had opted for a cutting instead. Where will it run?

Great photos and live updates today - thanks everyone!

I didn't realise the Oldham town centre section was to feature a tunnel - I thought they had opted for a cutting instead. Where will it run?

^^^^ Not the line will only go throught the tunnel on the Temporary line then once the town centre line is open the line will turn off before tunnel.

This extension will divert from the Oldham Rochdale line near the Westwood business park. It will head north through the business park and running parallel to Featherstall Road.

Great photos and live updates today - thanks everyone!

I didn't realise the Oldham town centre section was to feature a tunnel - I thought they had opted for a cutting instead. Where will it run?

It crosses under John Street above Manchester Street and connects with King Street and Union Street. Its not very long. The TfGM plan of King Street stop shows it.
http://www.metrolink.co.uk/pdf/future_metrolink/oldham-rochdale-line/oldham-king-street.pdf

Trams are running again on the Oldham line!

^^^^ Not the line will only go throught the tunnel on the Temporary line then once the town centre line is open the line will turn off before tunnel.

There is to be a new short tunnel up to King Street stop on the town centre route.

There is to be a new short tunnel up to King Street stop on the town centre route.

^^^^ for somereason I through they not going to have tunnel near King Street.

Trams are running again on the Oldham line!

^^^^ They been running since 7pm Wydna but thanks for telling us :cheers:

maybe only a small sign but the new oldham line stations seem to have been loaded live into the transport planner online system http://www.transportdirect.info/Web2/JourneyPlanning/StopInformation.aspx?cacheparam=9

maybe only a small sign but the new oldham line stations seem to have been loaded live into the transport planner online system http://www.transportdirect.info/Web2/JourneyPlanning/StopInformation.aspx?cacheparam=9

^^^^ ^^Is still showing the buses only and not the tram?

Had a walk down to Morrisons in Hollinwood earlier and as I went past the tram stop, I thought I'd have a little nosey. Walked up the footpath to the bridge that crosses the motorway, looked up at the platform and saw the PID flashing 'Oldham Mumps' 'Approaching' and then 10 seconds later a tram (3025) arrived. :banana:

Had another look on the way back and the PID on the Manchester-bound platform was blank for a few mins then it flashed up saying 'St Werburghs Road 7 mins' with 'Oldham Mumps 13 mins' on the other side.


Thanks for the photos, much appreciated! Were the PIDs accurate at all?

Thanks for the photos, much appreciated! Were the PIDs accurate at all?

Yes, they were. Noted the time on the PID, calculated what time they would arrive and lo and behold, they turned up at that time (e.g. 7 mins til tram at 6.59pm, it turned up at 7.06pm).

One thing I noted when see the trams at Hollinwood was how quiet they were. Just glided in, stopped for about 5-10 seconds then glided off again.

^^^^ ^^Is still showing the buses only and not the tram?

Before now I haven't noticed the newer stations such as Monsall and Central Park on there at all. I dare say there won't be any timetable info until the system goes fully live.

Hi all. Can someone remind me why the temporary line is temporary and not being retained as a fast(er) service to and from Rochdale? You will appreciate 972 pages take some searching through to find out!

Wonder when we will see the first tram across the main road in Oldham? Exciting times!

Andrew, the main reasons for closure (and this is just my own take) are most likely the added expense of having to look after two 100+ year old tunnels, four extra sets of point works/added signaling, two miles worth of duplicated track and overheads. I would imagine the land the line sits on is also worth a bit, which can be put back to paying for the new town center line.

I agree though it would make a useful diversion, in case of RTAs and what not, but then again practically the whole of the town center line is segregated anyway.

Hi all. Can someone remind me why the temporary line is temporary and not being retained as a fast(er) service to and from Rochdale? You will appreciate 972 pages take some searching through to find out!

It was begun before funding for Oldham TC route was approved though does have the benefit of allowing it to reopen a year or so before it would if they had to build through Oldham TC. Keeping it open would mean halving the frequency through Oldham TC and forcing people from Rochdale to change at Shaw if they want to go to Oldham so the track and equipment will be lifted and reused on the Airport line.

Plus the temporary route would only save about 5mins over the town centre route, hardly a long diversion.

A tram just went up towards Oldham past Freehold, which has raised a question in my head, what time is the last scheduled service?

. . . Plus it would result in uneven headways when the two routes come together again. Although it does seem a terrible waste for such a short period of usage. All down to Darlings ditherings in 2004.

A bit of confusion about the route West of King Street - it was originally going to dip down under a new tunnel, highly convoluted to curve around the foundations of the Pennine multi-storey hotel, and to have a stop within Manchester Street roundabout. Tfgm still seem to be using part of this defunct diagram from 2009 :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Oldham/King%20Street/100_9092.jpg

However, the Pennine Hotel was demolished a few years ago, so the new route will be in a cutting - more direct (ergo a bit steeper) and without a tunnel, but underpassing the corner of John Street and Foundry Street :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Oldham/King%20Street/100_9093.jpg

I am hoping for some decent views as we go gliding down the cutting!! :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Oldham/King%20Street/100_9095.jpg

(apologies for quality - these diagrams were not published but mounted at an exhibition in September 2010.)

# Another plethora of great photos to-day folks (except from yours truly who spent another hour on the same windy bank as you SF at Hollinwood - but sweet zilch all went by between 3-4 pm!). Lovin' 'em all, plus the new OH at Mumps and the stilts at Mersey bank - because of the flood plain and unstable ground it will be quite a long, quite low stilted structure with noise attenuation over the whole area.

# Ah well, try, try again tomorrow - let us know if a full service is testing on Oldham & I'll hope the chip shop near the Dog is open for a potato pie about 1200!!

:eat::banana:

Ok, thanks. I've checked the alignment of the tunnel in this photo against Google street-view and the map you posted and I think I see how it all lines up.


http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae333/freel07/Metrolink/P1010427a.jpg

Plus the temporary route would only save about 5mins over the town centre route, hardly a long diversion.

Time and speed is everything to a lot of people, see the Eccles line, one of the biggest problems is that the customers see it as slow. If that happens less people will use it and the fact people from Oldham have already complained its going to be slower than old rail service means anything extra will be a massive deal. I'll bet within a few weeks the local press will start slamming it if that turns out to the case and they'll slam it again once the town centre route opens.

. . .
A bit of confusion about the route West of King Street - it was originally going to dip down under a new tunnel, highly convoluted to curve around the foundations of the Pennine multi-storey hotel, and to have a stop within Manchester Street roundabout. Tfgm still seem to be using part of this defunct diagram from 2009 :-

[:eat::banana:

So more of a bridge than a tunnel, that explains the exposed concrete piling. I still can't quite make out how the vertical alignment will end up.

Here's a better image of the new alignment, Freel :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Oldham/King%20Street/newplan0312.jpg

Doesn't help with the gradient, but I think this will be an exciting area!

Here's a link to my photos of the town centre route, I'm currently in the middle of updating them :-

OLDHAM Town Centre Phase 3b Mumps to Werneth - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...97&page=39#771

OLDHAM Town Centre Phase 3b Werneth to Mumps - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...97&page=34#661



# Anyone know if they're testing on Oldham to-day?

Cheers, Johnny :cheers:

# Anyone know if they're testing on Oldham to-day?

Cheers, Johnny :cheers:

Don't know if they're ghost running but I saw one pass over the finback bridge towards Manchester as I was coming into work at about 8:30. The display said "The M5000 Tram".

Here's a better image of the new alignment, Freel :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/Oldham/King%20Street/newplan0312.jpg

Doesn't help with the gradient, but I think this will be an exciting area!

Here's a link to my photos of the town centre route, I'm currently in the middle of updating them :-

OLDHAM Town Centre Phase 3b Mumps to Werneth - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...97&page=39#771

OLDHAM Town Centre Phase 3b Werneth to Mumps - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...97&page=34#661



# Anyone know if they're testing on Oldham to-day?

Cheers, Johnny :cheers:
I find it bizarre that they would cross the roundabout under the ringroad at grade (with all the interruption of traffic flow that will cause) and then go to the expense of burrowing underneath John Street (with all the cost that that will entail) - why is not an at-grade crossing?

I find it bizarre that they would cross the roundabout under the ringroad at grade (with all the interruption of traffic flow that will cause) and then go to the expense of burrowing underneath John Street (with all the cost that that will entail) - why is not an at-grade crossing?

might be to do with the gradient required to get to the road level before John Street (I don't know the area). Obviously if they are going under it, the slope doesn't need to be as steep...

# Anyone know if they're testing on Oldham to-day?



Yes. :)

SF07, great pics http://forum.football365.com/images/smilies/5.gif

The picture of the PID showing "St Werburgh's Road" (I'm sure that's the right spelling....http://forum.football365.com/images/smilies/icon_uhoh.gif) annoys me a bit. Not your photo, I mean, the PID, :lol:. Why not just put "(Manchester) Victoria" to give folk at least a chance of knowing the destination? I mean...yes the track can only go to Manc but that doesn't make a PID showing a suburban street in Chorlton sensible!

But that's where the trams are terminating, they are not terminating at Victoria.

Just think, it'll only be short-term, just like Oldham Mumps. In a year or so, we'll be seeing East Didsbury and Shaw/Rochdale instead of St Werburgh's Road and Oldham Mumps

How many cockneys know where Cockfostets or Stanmore are?

They are just St Werby, the end of the line.

Trams testing on the Oldham line scene to be going well so far as I seen them coming up and down like 12 mins service, but I have hotice the doing work near Freehold stop I think on the tracks but unsure, Also I try and get some picture later at South Chadderton and Freehold stops and hopely see a tram too.

EDIT: When the tram near entrying Freehold stop is whistling so I think workman or MPT are near Edward Street or near Werneth area.

. . . Plus it would result in uneven headways when the two routes come together again. Although it does seem a terrible waste for such a short period of usage. All down to Darlings ditherings in 2004.

A bit of confusion about the route West of King Street - it was originally going to dip down under a new tunnel, highly convoluted to curve around the foundations of the Pennine multi-storey hotel, and to have a stop within Manchester Street roundabout. Tfgm still seem to be using part of this defunct diagram from 2009 :-

# Ah well, try, try again tomorrow - let us know if a full service is testing on Oldham & I'll hope the chip shop near the Dog is open for a potato pie about 1200!!

:eat::banana:

^^^^ That what I'm confused at too, as I through they not going to have tunnel near Manchester Street and near King Street too, but looking at Freel07 is look like they have change they mind or forget that they they not going to have one and build one indeed:nuts:

Also u probably already know this and might even be in Freehold area but trams are running on the Oldham line today and that chippy will be open between 11:30am to 1:30pm and then 4:30pm to 10:30pm.

How many cockneys know where Cockfosters or Stanmore are?

They are just St Werby, the end of the line.

I was just about to post the same thing - there's a map on every stop so although tourists might not know where West Ruislip or Epping are, they can see which way is westbound or eastbound from the line diagram on the platform.

On the Oldham line all the trams will be going to St Werburgh's Road anyway so it's not like people will have to make a decision. After the first week the new punters will be used to it anyway.

I find it bizarre that they would cross the roundabout under the ringroad at grade (with all the interruption of traffic flow that will cause) and then go to the expense of burrowing underneath John Street (with all the cost that that will entail) - why is not an at-grade crossing?

If the crossing of John Street was at grade, the gradient between the roundabout and John Street would be far too high for the trams to operate over. The line starts dipping at King Street Station and needs to be substantially at a lower level at John Street in order to be of an acceptable grade between John Street and the roundabout.

Notice: Now the John Street crossing is merely a bridge. Before it was a tunnel. It must have been value engineered - good for TfGM!

Let us not forget the platforms also have signs along the lines of 'Trams to Manchester'.

Trams on Oldham Line today...

Out of Queens Rd Depot:
3007
3019
3021
3022
3023
2026

Out of Trafford Depot:
3001
3003
3004

I was just about to post the same thing - there's a map on every stop so although tourists might not know where West Ruislip or Epping are, they can see which way is westbound or eastbound from the line diagram on the platform.

On the Oldham line all the trams will be going to St Werburgh's Road anyway so it's not like people will have to make a decision. After the first week the new punters will be used to it anyway.

Agree entirely on yours and LNG's views regarding the destination displays - the more you add, the more cluttered it becomes, and the harder it is to read. What if we have people boarding the 'via Victoria' tram at SPS only to find it takes them towards DC?

Passengers on the ORL will have platform maps, onboard maps, PIDs and information from the Metrolink website AND the free mobile app to suitably inform them. It's all too likely that the PIDs on the platforms will state 'via Victoria' anyway, in line with TMS limitations, just like the Eccles line (via Pomona) and SML (via Cornbrook). If this wealth of information doesn't suffice, perhaps these people shouldn't be allowed near trams, or any form of heavy machinery for that matter...

Personally I find double-line destinations on M5000s very hard to read from a long distance; the font used seems to be quite 'blocky'. Ironically, the 2-line displays on T68s are easier to read, despite their lower resolution!!

Digressing a little from topic, I'd like to see the two-line destinations avoided wherever possible on future routes. Understandably, the 'via MediacityUK/Woodlands Road' is unavoidable - and the latter only temporary - but if there's too many of them, the high visibility of bright orange displays is made somewhat redundant if they're only legible from, say, the length of a platform.

This has got me thinking about future displays - Rochdale Town Centre/Railway Station/Wythenshawe Town Centre (to quote some examples) wouldn't fit on one single line without abbreviation. However, chancing upon bus displays down here in Coventry got me thinking...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7201/6944391135_0a1e2558a0_b.jpg
Image courtesy of flickr user john-s-91 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/john-s-91/)

Note here the split levels: main destination in bold, subordinate details on two lines. This layout has recently started to appear on some routes. And in the flesh, it's very easy to read. After some tampering in paint, I've concluded that this can be done with the three destinations mentioned above, and is infinitely more legible - the eye is drawn primarily to the main destination, but the additional details provide precision. 'Eccles via MediaCityUK' works too in this manner, but the reverse working wouldn't so it'd be best not to bother at all on this route.

Edit: You can actually fit 'Rochdale Town Centre' on one line if you try, but definitely not 'Railway Station' without shortening it.

It's food for thought though: as I see it those front displays are made to identify the tram's route, ideally from as great a distance as is practically possible (if that weren't the case, they would never have replaced the ageing green displays on the T68As). Passengers wanting to know more should acquaint themselves with detailed service information at the stop - even if communications are a spot of contention as of late, there is always sufficient printed media on-site regarding routes... I think.

Apologies for the deviation, it's a thought that has plagued me for a while. Maybe I'm reading too far into it! A massive thanks for all the updates and photos so far too - it's a joy to receive. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the Oldham opening though, as I'll be back in Manchester on the 11th and 12th, but probably not the 13th...

Trams on Oldham Line today...

Out of Queens Rd Depot:
3007
3019
3021
3022
3023
2026

Out of Trafford Depot:
3001
3003
3004

Dont think there is a 2026, just noticed it, unless they are sneaking T68s(1003?) on to the OML without northern noticing.:lol:

Trams testing on the Oldham line scene to be going well so far as I seen them coming up and down like 12 mins service, but I have hotice the doing work near Freehold stop I think on the tracks but unsure, Also I try and get some picture later at South Chadderton and Freehold stops and hopely see a tram too.

EDIT: When the tram near entrying Freehold stop is whistling so I think workman or MPT are near Edward Street or near Werneth area.

They're putting vertical wooden planks up along the edge of the line, just further North of the pedestrian bridge. In other words, where those trees were planted, adjacent to the outbound line just past the track-level crossing :)

Dont think there is a 2026, just noticed it, unless they are sneaking T68s(1003?) on to the OML without northern noticing.:lol:

Oops! That's my typing, lol. 3026 it should have said ;)

Some really good replies about the PID's guys, thanks for all that.

I guess I'm being a bit hyper cautious. As said above, if someone doesn't know where the tram is going as it trundles away from Oldham and towards Manchester, then maybe they shouldn't be allowed out of the house!

On the issue of future destinations and abbreviations, I am worried we might see some absolute horrors.

"Rchdle Rwy Stn", anyone? :scared:

Just seen a tram heading south at the M60 crossing.

Trams on Oldham Line today...

Out of Queens Rd Depot:
3007
3019
3021
3022
3023
2026

Out of Trafford Depot:
3001
3003
3004

^^^^ Yeah I seen 3021 at South Chadderton and and 3026 or 2026 like Singalman said:lol: at Freehold.

They're putting vertical wooden planks up along the edge of the line, just further North of the pedestrian bridge. In other words, where those trees were planted, adjacent to the outbound line just past the track-level crossing :)

^^^^ Yeah I saw them doing is this Afternoon, and in front of my house they man on the tracks with flag taking the worker if tram is coming.

Here are some picture that I took at South Chadderton today, the tram that in the picture is 3021 (M5000) tram.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7233/7159932789_1f7bbe7def_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work_2/7159932789/)
Live Departure Boards at South Chadderton (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work_2/7159932789/)

^^^^ This is on the Oldham side of Platform

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7100/7345143228_a62e84ba21_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work_2/7345143228/)
Live Departure Boards at South Chadderton 3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work_2/7345143228/)

^^^^ this was took after tram leave the stop

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7214/7345142590_82591b4e2f_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work_2/7345142590/)
Live Departure Boards at South Chadderton 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work_2/7345142590/)

^^^^ this is on Manchester side

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7075/7159935597_873be54d15_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work_2/7159935597/)
tram entrying South Chadderton (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work_2/7159935597/)

^^^^ Sorry if it bit fuzzy

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7102/7345147034_b2de7f693b_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work_2/7345147034/)
tram say Not in Service (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work_2/7345147034/)

^^^^ Sorry again if it fuzzy but it said "Not In Service"

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7241/7345147948_f081b4ea19_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work_2/7345147948/)
tram heading to Oldham (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work_2/7345147948/)

^^^^ they is go to Freehold and Mumps

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7091/7159940055_a57bbec272_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work_2/7159940055/)
sign at Freehold Stop (http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work_2/7159940055/)

^^^^ Sign at Freehold stop, is the best i could do.

:banana::banana::banana:

Just seen a tram heading south at the M60 crossing.

T68 or M5000??:shifty:

Over the weekend I wrote a tool to convert the Metrolink ATCO_CIF files to a more readable spreadsheet format.

Looking at the different timetables, it shows that passengers on the Oldham line wanting to get to Piccadilly Station (like many of my former work colleagues) will have a 10 minute transfer at Victoria. In the other direction the transfer is a slightly more acceptable 6 Minutes.

A 12 minute service between Manchester's two major stations is not enough!

That's why I suggested EML trams run on towards ORL.

^^^^ Yeah I saw them doing is this Afternoon, and in front of my house they man on the tracks with flag taking the worker if tram is coming.

That is interesting! Did you happen to catch the tram that went up very early this morning saying "Special" on it? I can't remember if it was the one I saw around 12:15 this morning or around 8:30 this morning, but I'm pretty sure it had "Special" on it

Instead of Rochdale Railway Station could they not just say "Rochdale" with the little British Rail symbol?

Instead of Rochdale Railway Station could they not just say "Rochdale" with the little British Rail symbol?

Personally, I think that would look really brilliant!

Instead of Rochdale Railway Station could they not just say "Rochdale" with the little British Rail symbol?

Y'know, you might be onto something there... :)

Would it be worth adding it to Piccadilly/Victoria/Altrincham for consistency?

Instead of Rochdale Railway Station could they not just say "Rochdale" with the little British Rail symbol?

Great idea!

Why will the blinds on the trams need to ever say Rochdale Railway station?

In non-ORL related news it looked like they were installing new signage at Picadilly this morning 'Trams to Altrincham, Bury & Eccles' to replace the 'Departure platform' ones... I'll have another look as I pass back through later this evening :)

Why will the blinds on the trams need to ever say Rochdale Railway station?

Because the line will open to Rochdale Railway Station, before extending into Rochdale Town Centre....

Because the line will open to Rochdale Railway Station, before extending into Rochdale Town Centre....

In which case won't it just day Rochdale at that point?

Like Altrincham.

I guess it depends what they actually name the stop at the railway station..?

Removed.

Aye, and if they decide to stick rigidly to putting the full stop name on the blind.

To keep things simple just having Rochdale for railway station and town centre could make sense, especially for simplicity sake.

On board announcements and PIDs would differentiate between them.

I really hope they don't actually name a stop "Rochdale Railway Station". It's too long and it's inconsistent; as in the stop at Piccadilly isn't called "Piccadilly Railway Station".

In an ideal world I would name it "Rochdale Interchange", but the actual bus interchange will be located at Rochdale Town Centre. Maybe "Rochdale East", with a small National Rail symbol?

I really hope they don't actually name a stop "Rochdale Railway Station". It's too long and it's inconsistent; as in the stop at Piccadilly isn't called "Piccadilly Railway Station".

Depends what they call the town centre one.

Needs to be differentiated on maps and PIDs from the town centre/bus station one but I an not convinced that needs to be replicated on the tram blinds.

A
Personally I find double-line destinations on M5000s very hard to read from a long distance; the font used seems to be quite 'blocky'. Ironically, the 2-line displays on T68s are easier to read, despite their lower resolution!!


Phew, I'm glad you said that. I've said it a few times on here and as nobody commented on it, I was beginning to think it was just me. Now I'm not sure whether something like that would fit on the displays on the trams are they are smaller and on the M5000s there don't seem to be as many dots.

I believe that they will replicate the stop name on the blinds, they've never deviated up till now so I don't think they will start. Could be wrong!

The future Metrolink site calls the stop Rochdale Railway Station so until I read otherwise I'm going to assume that's what the stop will be called and what will appear on the blinds.

http://www.metrolink.co.uk/futuremetrolink/oldham-and-rochdale-line.asp

Confirms the final names (not got the subject to change astrix) of Rochdale Railway Station and Rochdale Town Centre.

Reckon just Rochdale on the binds will work for both though.

I guess it depends what they actually name the stop at the railway station..?

^^^^ At Rochdale railway Station is just say "Rochdale" and I'm sure the trams will just say Rochdale on them unless they have Rochdale via Oldham or Rochdale via Shaw on them.

Instead of Rochdale Railway Station could they not just say "Rochdale" with the little British Rail symbol?

Agree, I would think that most people know what it means. It is possible, It's a shame on the buses that the little airplane symbol had to go on the 43 and the 105 when the two line displays came in. It would be good to see that symbol appearing when the trams go to the Airport.

And one of the stops which is very badly named is "Piccadilly". Piccadilly starts at the top of Portland Street. The buses say "Piccadilly" for Piccadilly Gardens. I think it should be renamed "Piccadilly Station" or "Piccadilly and have the BR symbol next to it".

When did you last come across someone who did not know what Piccadilly refers to on Metrolink?

keep it simple.

Let's go the whole hog

Altrincham railway station
Navigation road railway station
Shudehill bus station
Victoria railway station
Eccles bus station
Piccadilly Gardens bus station

Or why not just keep our simple and not add the descriptors unless absolutely necessary like in Rochdale.

Are you saying you don't like what Metrolink have named the stop at Rochdale Railway Station? I think they have only done it as there will be more than one stop in Rochdale.

If there were 2 stops in Altrincham maybe they would have to differentiate there too but there aren't.

Edit: sorry LNG I've just noticed what post you were actually replying to!! Ignore the above :-)

Are you saying you don't like what Metrolink have named the stop at Rochdale Railway Station?

I think that is a necessity as there is the town centre stop, they need differentiating on a map.

I don't understand the suggestion of changing Piccadilly to Piccadilly station though.

Seems totally pointless and adds nothing that I can see.

My premise, given the vast majority of the population have no interest in the complexities is to keep as absolutely simple as possible.

If just Piccadilly works then use it - I have never heard of any problems caused by the name.

Yeah see my edit above, I totally missed the post you were actually replying to..

Am I right in recalling that the Metrolink station signs for Victoria actually say Victoria Station? But it's on the maps as plain Victoria?

Possibly, obviously the trams from St Werby say just plain Victoria without the station part.

That is interesting! Did you happen to catch the tram that went up very early this morning saying "Special" on it? I can't remember if it was the one I saw around 12:15 this morning or around 8:30 this morning, but I'm pretty sure it had "Special" on it

^^^^ Not Jake I didn't saw a tram saying "Special" on it last night and this Morning, I only seen trams say "Not in Service" or "Tram on Test"
Also Something I forget to say, one of workman at South Chadderton believe that if all testing go ok this week then by next Wednesday the Oldham line should open, let hope testing go ok then.

^^^^ Not Jake I didn't saw a tram saying "Special" on it last night and this Morning, I only seen trams say "Not in Service" or "Tram on Test"
Also Something I forget to say, one of workman at South Chadderton believe that if all testing go ok this week then by next Wednesday the Oldham line should open, let hope testing go ok then.

Kinda freaked me out a little, haha :) Well I hope the Oldham line does open next Wednesday, although it seems a little strange opening it mid-week, don't you think? Wasn't the SML opened Monday morning?

Kinda freaked me out a little, haha :) Well I hope the Oldham line does open next Wednesday, although it seems a little strange opening it mid-week, don't you think? Wasn't the SML opened Monday morning?

^^^^ No Jake it open on 7th July which with a Thursday I think.

^^^^ No Jake it open on 7th July which with a Thursday I think.

Really? I wasn't aware of that, I thought it was Monday. Changing the subject slightly, have any T68's ever travelled into St Werburgh's Road?

Really? I wasn't aware of that, I thought it was Monday. Changing the subject slightly, have any T68's ever travelled into St Werburgh's Road?

^^^^ Yes they have Jake I think Martin took a picture of one once but is very rare u seen one.

They're not going to put "Rochdale Railway Station" on the blinds I'm sure of it. They'll suffice just with "Rochdale", both when the line opens to Rochdale initially at the end of this year AND when it opens into Rochdale Town Centre.

& Martin, you're right about the signs at Victoria, they say "Victoria Station"

^^^^ No Jake it open on 7th July which with a Thursday I think.

Any news on when the East Manchester Line will open?

www.metrolink.co.uk says it will open as far as Droylesden in 2012

Any news on when the East Manchester Line will open?

www.metrolink.co.uk says it will open as far as Droylesden in 2012

^^^^ I think the still planning to open line to Droylsden this year but it could be early nexy year when it happens, but I think they what trams to go as far as City Ground (Man City) hopely by time football season start in (August)