Greetings. I have recently returned from a trip to NYC, and as I promised in the thread about interstates, I have taken some random photos of the drive. I was only taking pictures when I wasn't doing the driving, so there are big gaps in the coverage of the photos in each direction. My camera batteries also died prematurely on the way to NYC. However, I was able to take pictures of different highways in each direction (to and from NYC), so the photos cover more or less the whole journey. I have also not taken photos of highways 401 and 427 because I was too lazy at the beginning of the trip :)

I tried to categorize the photos according to the different highways that they represent to the best of my ability, but I am not familiar with these areas (first time driving there), so errors are quite possible, especially for photos at the edges of the categories.

Lastly, please excuse my bad camera work :) Especially at the beginning (QEW), many of the photos are blurry because they were taken at dawn. Also, some birds took a crap on the windshield toward the end :)

The trip (around 800 km):

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9663/totonymapyv4.jpg

Part 1: Toronto -> NYC

Queen Elizabeth Way, Ontario:

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/2461/dscf0347gi7.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/9738/dscf0348lq9.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3015/dscf0349uc6.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/7864/dscf0351vc6.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6523/dscf0352ig1.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/473/dscf0353jf7.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1158/dscf0355zj3.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/8655/dscf0356kq1.jpg

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6346/dscf0357fa0.jpg

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6287/dscf0358qd9.jpg

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/2218/dscf0359ti2.jpg

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6641/dscf0360dz0.jpg

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5297/dscf0361mf6.jpg

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8056/dscf0362jn3.jpg

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6135/dscf0363zv0.jpg

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/259/dscf0364gk2.jpg

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6816/dscf0366rn9.jpg

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5599/dscf0368rk8.jpg

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/4827/dscf0369jx1.jpg

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/1444/dscf0370fn5.jpg

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/3838/dscf0372tb9.jpg

Highway 405, Ontario:

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/208/dscf0373gj5.jpg

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/4818/dscf0374sy4.jpg

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/4926/dscf0375gf0.jpg

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/680/dscf0376lv1.jpg

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/9503/dscf0377nx6.jpg

Canada-US Border (Ontario, Canada & NY, United States):

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/8923/dscf0378qg8.jpg

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/479/dscf0379zj4.jpg

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3189/dscf0380lj1.jpg

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/7206/dscf0381jf5.jpg

Interstate 190 S:

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5316/dscf0382ig2.jpg

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4056/dscf0383me7.jpg

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9559/dscf0384kg0.jpg

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9937/dscf0385ce4.jpg

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2214/dscf0386wr4.jpg

http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9426/dscf0387xu8.jpg

Interstate 290 E & (several pics of) Interstate 90 E:

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/754/dscf0389up2.jpg

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/4024/dscf0390pg0.jpg

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/8463/dscf0391ag6.jpg

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/2657/dscf0392hb7.jpg

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/962/dscf0393xa1.jpg

Interstate 80 E:

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/4606/dscf0394pe2.jpg

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/5976/dscf0395dm4.jpg

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/9225/dscf0396kn1.jpg

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/7799/dscf0397cf4.jpg

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/9885/dscf0398vw6.jpg

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/1729/dscf0399ps9.jpg

Part 2: NYC -> Toronto

Interstate 95 S (Cross-Bronx Expressway & New Jersey Turnpike):

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6898/dscf0558tr6.jpg

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/837/dscf0559iv0.jpg

Interstate 80 W:

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3120/dscf0560bi4.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8712/dscf0561vc6.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3600/dscf0562ct6.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/717/dscf0563hl2.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8171/dscf0564oa3.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4776/dscf0565yl9.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/145/dscf0566ql4.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/9786/dscf0567eb8.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/4583/dscf0568fl9.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/9860/dscf0569mu6.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/2272/dscf0570lh3.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/6213/dscf0571be6.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/9287/dscf0572xn4.jpg

Interstate 380 N:

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/9756/dscf0573rr7.jpg

http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/4547/dscf0574gt6.jpg

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/1129/dscf0575wi1.jpg

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/1461/dscf0576ru5.jpg

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8216/dscf0577zu4.jpg

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8948/dscf0578gz2.jpg

Interstate 81 N:

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/6286/dscf0579ie3.jpg

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/930/dscf0580rc9.jpg

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/9346/dscf0581np2.jpg

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4025/dscf0582qn2.jpg

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/4886/dscf0583ju6.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6003/dscf0584kt2.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9906/dscf0585eq2.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4430/dscf0586mz1.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6606/dscf0587we4.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2302/dscf0588nx5.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6051/dscf0589bo4.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7888/dscf0590ck3.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5681/dscf0591rx4.jpg

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7678/dscf0592bt0.jpg

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6117/dscf0593kt0.jpg

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5174/dscf0594xt7.jpg

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/713/dscf0595zz4.jpg

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/3246/dscf0596sq3.jpg

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1853/dscf0597go2.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/706/dscf0599qu4.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6650/dscf0600xt9.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3029/dscf0601fp4.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4363/dscf0602ij8.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/50/dscf0603wy5.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4192/dscf0604ql7.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9167/dscf0605zr4.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6049/dscf0606zx4.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7719/dscf0607wc5.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7355/dscf0608kw8.jpg

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3894/dscf0609tx2.jpg

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/9723/dscf0610tf2.jpg

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/5475/dscf0611ou3.jpg

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/4416/dscf0612vc8.jpg

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/8796/dscf0613fe4.jpg

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/7861/dscf0614xi8.jpg

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/1933/dscf0615si2.jpg

Interstate 690 W & Interstate 90 W:

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/5467/dscf0616ph9.jpg

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/4801/dscf0617it2.jpg

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/5406/dscf0618jp4.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/180/dscf0619nf7.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/5959/dscf0621am0.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/682/dscf0622eg4.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/874/dscf0623ua7.jpg

Well, that is it, I hope you enjoyed.

Nice pictures, thanks. Some parts really look like european motorways, except for the yellow line on the left.

Very interesting pictures, indeed.

But why driving for 800 km instead of using a train or a plane? :D ;)

Very interesting pictures, indeed.

But why driving for 800 km instead of using a train or a plane? :D ;)
Well, I would say that he drove because A) flying is not any fun anymore and b) although there is frequent Amtrak rail passenger service across New York state (NYC<->Albany<->Syracuse<->Rochester<->Buffalo), and a route or two into Canada, for some-odd reason the USA border guards have made crossing into the USA from Canada by rail to be a total chore, it's far worse than what you hear regarding the TSA guys (the air security guards) at the airports.

And besides, there is a lot of WAAAAAY KEWL scenery along the highways and motorways in the northeastern USA. Yes, I have driven on ALL of the highways (except I-190 between Niagara Falls and the border crossing) that he used in the USA part of his roadtrip.

:)

Mike

But why driving for 800 km instead of using a train or a plane? :D ;)I say, everything you can reach by car in 1 day, is normal.


Very interesting journey, thank you very much! :cheers2:

I don't understand what this sign is trying to tell us though:
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/9287/dscf0572xn4.jpg

I say, everything you can reach by car in 1 day, is normal.


Very interesting journey, thank you very much! :cheers2:

I don't understand what this sign is trying to tell us though:
It is describing what interchanges serve the Pocono mountains region of Pennsylvania. It is a major regional tourist/summer home area and includes a major NASCAR racetrack.

Mike

^ So those are exit nos.?

Very interesting pictures, indeed.

But why driving for 800 km instead of using a train or a plane? :D ;)

Hehe, all the reasons that the fellow forumers have mentioned are valid, but there are a few more important reasons. Flying is the most convenient option, but it is expensive. It costs around $300/person (and we had 3 people on the trip), so that would come out to around $900 overall. The road trip cost us less than $100 (I would like to point out that gas prices in the US, especially in PA, are much lower than in Canada :)).

As for rail, I see that you live in Europe ;) As was pointed out, Amtrak does have a Toronto->NYC route, but it actually takes longer than driving by several hours, because the train takes a less direct route than the highway, and moves slower than cars on the highway :).

^ So those are exit nos.?
Yes. That sign is on the westbound (from NYC) approach to the I-80/380 split (about 1.5 to 2 hours' driving time west of the Hudson River bridge from Manhattan) and shows the numbers of the interchanges on each route that serve the Pocono mountains region.

Mike

Very nice, thanks a lot for the pics! I almost did (in the bus) the same route 2 years ago, but I was stopped at the American border. :( :lol: Thanx for showing me the rest. :cheers:

Beautifull photo's! A very well documentel trip, no doubt! :okay:

As CborG already refered, many pictures remind me of european motorways.

Thanks for the comments :)
A lot of the highways were indeed in a great condition, no complaints in general. Lots of construction was encountered along the way.

Very nice photo-report! I noticed that in New York motorways look very different from what we have in California in terms of the road marking. I like the marking that allows changing lanes only in one direction :okay:

http://mikul.net/images/motorways/on-ny/pic1.jpg

http://mikul.net/images/motorways/on-ny/pic2.jpg

Also, in California I haven't seen any YIELD signs at the on-ramps, but in Europe - plenty.

http://mikul.net/images/motorways/on-ny/pic3.jpg

nice photos :okay: I find East Coast highways fascinating because of it's scenery and more. A sharp contrast compared to west coast ones.

I've done this trip before on those Chinese bus tours. The routings were different each time, from the Syracuse route to skirting the southern edges of the Finger Lakes (stopping in Corning) and even via Albany. Quite a long 10+ hour trip on a bus.

Nice report

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3600/dscf0562ct6.jpg

You seriously don't call these destinations control cities or what?

What's wrong with them?
America gets knocked for using cardinal directions and numbers....and now for cities and towns too?
I'm always honest when it comes to North America vs Europe arguments but what are we supposed to do over here?

Well, the Delaware Water Gap is just some rivercrossing near Stroudsburg, but it is very small, why not signing Scranton or even some further away Pennsylvania destination? You might even wanna put Cleveland or Pittsburgh as a remote focal point on the signs.

I don't think the directions and numbers are bad, but when you are not known to the area, you are searching for major cities, not some village on a riverbank which is accidently the border between NJ and PA.

The trip (around 800 km):


There's something wrong there.

I did the same trip last year and after entering Buffalo from Niagra Falls, I saw a road sign saying: "NYC 600 miles" and that alone is almost 1,000 km. Consider that the border from Toronto is at least 100 - 150 more kms and you got much more then 800.

Nice pics though :okay:

Delaware Water Gap IS the NJ-PA border, is very well known in both states and is VERY visable as a destination. 80 doesn't go through Scranton and, in fact, doesn't really hit any major cities at all in Pennsylvania...and Ohio is really too far away.

And besides....you're not going to miss it:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1077/592374151_91a1b8c700_o.jpg

nice pictures...even though i travel down the QEW from st. catharines to downtown toronto several times a week, never been to New York State.

Makes me want to check it out.

Keep it up..and if you have more to share...I would love to see them :)

Delaware Water Gap IS the NJ-PA border, is very well known in both states and is VERY visable as a destination. 80 doesn't go through Scranton and, in fact, doesn't really hit any major cities at all in Pennsylvania...and Ohio is really too far away.


Yep, as he said, there is really nothing of interest between Youngstown, OH and Northern New Jersey. In Youngstown, in fact, one of the control cities on I-80 is New York City, despite it being 400 miles (650 km) away. This is simply because while Northern PA is very scenic in parts, it is also very little-populated.

Maybe, but Scranton is "just around the corner", and can therefor be signed on the I-80.

650km is a long way, but there aren't any better destinations in Northern Pennsylvania. But we see for example 600+km destinations in France too, so it is possible. Without any large city on the I-80, i think most traffic is long distance too, so you might wanna sign long distance destinations too.

I wonder what they sign in the west, it's all long distance there (I-15, I-40, I-80, I-90, I-94 etc).

Great pictures. :)

I have taken almost the same route, except I take I-84 west to I-380, since I live in Hartford and not New York. It's better than taking the Thruway the entire way.

The landscape is very beautiful when in Pennsylvania and in the Southern tier in New York State, but it gets boring fast from Syracuse westward. Buffalo, then Customs, and then those two super-bridges on the QEW keep you awake though.

Without any large city on the I-80, i think most traffic is long distance too, so you might wanna sign long distance destinations too.

I suspect most traffic (at least the non-truck) is heading for northwestern New Jersey and the Poconos of PA. Again- the Water Gap is very well known in this area so works very well for a destination. I understand Europeans have never heard of it, but I doubt many Europeans know where Stroudsburg is either.

There's something wrong there.

I did the same trip last year and after entering Buffalo from Niagra Falls, I saw a road sign saying: "NYC 600 miles" and that alone is almost 1,000 km. Consider that the border from Toronto is at least 100 - 150 more kms and you got much more then 800.

Nice pics though :okay:
Hmm, I have no clue, it is definitely not 1000 km :) But I think you might be mistaken, as I remember an "NYC 400 miles" sign around the same area :)

Maybe, but Scranton is "just around the corner", and can therefor be signed on the I-80.

650km is a long way, but there aren't any better destinations in Northern Pennsylvania. But we see for example 600+km destinations in France too, so it is possible. Without any large city on the I-80, i think most traffic is long distance too, so you might wanna sign long distance destinations too.

I wonder what they sign in the west, it's all long distance there (I-15, I-40, I-80, I-90, I-94 etc).
I was very confused by 'Del Water gap' the first time I drove that way on a roadtrip a few years ago. Since then I have been thinking that 'Pennsylvania' would be a better control destination for those signs, just like 'Indiana' and 'Wisconsin' are used on the expressways in central Chicago.

Mike

Interesting... In Western states they never use other states as control destinations. For example, on I-80 east of Sacramento, they always put Reno as the next control destinations, and after Reno they put Salt Lake City, etc. Similarly, on I-5 they point to Portland and then to Seattle.

I was very confused by 'Del Water gap' the first time I drove that way on a roadtrip a few years ago. Since then I have been thinking that 'Pennsylvania' would be a better control destination for those signs, just like 'Indiana' and 'Wisconsin' are used on the expressways in central Chicago.

Mike

In New York, they use "New England" as a control destination on signs in the City:

http://www.northeastroads.com/new_york200/i-278_eb_exit_030_15.jpg

I suspect most traffic (at least the non-truck) is heading for northwestern New Jersey and the Poconos of PA. Again- the Water Gap is very well known in this area so works very well for a destination. I understand Europeans have never heard of it, but I doubt many Europeans know where Stroudsburg is either.

Stroudsburg is somewhat bigger, and can easier be found on the map. You have to get a very detailed map to find the Delaware water gap.

My Rand McNally 2005 road atlas has included it, by the way.

And signage is not ment for those who is well known to the area, but for those who aren't. I don't need signage on the road to my work either, but i need it when i'm on a roadtrip for example.

That's true- it is mostly for those unfamiliar with an area- I don't disagree at all. Perhaps POCONOS would work better.

Well, I was surprised at some tiny Van Horn as the main destination on the I-10 in El Paso, but at major interchanges in El Paso they also put San Antonio, so it's all fine.

These are awesome pictures :okay: :okay:.
I must say I'm sort of disappointed by the look of these highways in some areas but it must have been because they are quite old and heavily used. Anyway how is the feeling in the car? Is it shaking at higher speeds?

These are awesome pictures :okay: :okay:.
I must say I'm sort of disappointed by the look of these highways in some areas but it must have been because they are quite old and heavily used. Anyway how is the feeling in the car? Is it shaking at higher speeds?
Thanks :) It really depends on where you drive - a lot of the highways are actually in good condition. When taking this trip, we had recently replaced a component of the steering system, and the wheel was a little unbalanced (slightly turned to the left in the natural position :)), so that actually made it a little less convenient on the worse-surface parts. Also, we have a relatively small Nissan Sentra, so it is definitely not as convenient as some of the bigger cars (bumps are felt with greater force, and there is almost no legroom for passengers in the backseat :)). But otherwise it wasn't too bad.

In New York, they use "New England" as a control destination on signs in the City:


Yeah, there are still plenty of old signs all over New York that still have that.

Most new signs put New Haven instead.

I went this way. We went from 9pm and were at Battery Park at 4:30 am.

On the way back we chilled it down with the speed as it was the day.

Thanks :) It really depends on where you drive - a lot of the highways are actually in good condition. When taking this trip, we had recently replaced a component of the steering system, and the wheel was a little unbalanced (slightly turned to the left in the natural position :)), so that actually made it a little less convenient on the worse-surface parts. Also, we have a relatively small Nissan Sentra, so it is definitely not as convenient as some of the bigger cars (bumps are felt with greater force, and there is almost no legroom for passengers in the backseat :)). But otherwise it wasn't too bad.

I see. Thanx. I'm glad you had a good driving trip. And I asked that because Croatia has recently built many new kilometers of highway and everything is new and smooth... so driving is a real pleasure ;) and of course I'm expecting the same thing from one of the most developed countries in the world ;). :cheers:

Is it possible to use the motorways from Belgrade to Zagreb and from Zagreb to Budapest with a truck? I heard that there are limitations-> that it is not allowed to use these motorways with trucks.

Are both distances fully equipped with motorways or are many "normal" country roads to be used? Thanks for your urgent awaited response!

The Hungarian part of the Budapest - Zagreb route isn't quite finished i thought. But Hungarian members can answer this better.

Belgrade - Zagreb is a full motorway.

Belgrade - Zagreb is a full motorway.

And as you said, Zagreb - Hungarian border, too.

I doubt that there are some limitations in Hungary.

Zagreb - Belgrade is fully motorway
Zagreb - Budapest: croatian part is fully motorway (only 1 km of access to border is normal road), in Hungary you have about 30 km 2 way road between Nagykanizsa (city about 25 km after border) and Balaton Lake, other part is full motorway.

there are not any restrictions for any vehicles (except special occasions such as holidays).

buon voyage! :)

The Hungarian part of the Budapest - Zagreb route isn't quite finished i thought. But Hungarian members can answer this better.

Belgrade - Zagreb is a full motorway.

Croatia-Hungary 1km border with bridge is u/c,and we have a gap of M7 between Nagykanizsa-Balatonszentgyörgy,which is also u/c
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1091/hrhrr1.jpg(I'd gladly show it,but imageshack refuses to show the pic I uploaded...)
Restriction we have is that trucks are not allowed to travel at weekends,except ones that transport perishable goods.
-website of our motorways in english:
http://www.motorway.hu/Engine.aspx

My wife and I made a short trip to Victoria by ferry, so several pictures from our trip à la Chriszwolle style :D

Heading North on Provincial Highway 99 after passing the border check point. This European-like guide sign is almost non-existent in the USA
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/exit_2_NB99.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Entering the City of Surrey
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/welcome_to_surrey1.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sign indicating distance to ferry terminal at Tsawwassen and to Vancouver. Not quite a European style, but not US-like either
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/guide_sign_ferries.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exit 10: King George Highway. Canada honours its royalty by naming highways, streets and other places after them
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/exit_10_NB99.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exit 20: Local access road to Point Roberts, a US exclave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Roberts) located south of Tsawwassen. To get to Point Roberts by car, one would need to cross into Canada and then back into the USA
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/exit_20_NB99.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Google maps told me to take exit 20, and then follow the Ladner Road, but then I saw a guide sign telling me to continue on BC-99 further to reach ferries, so I re-entered the motorway
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/to_ferries1.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------


To get to ferry terminal, we take exit 28 - a junction between BC-17 and BC-99.
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/to_tsawwassen.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, we are passing over BC-99 and a sign tells us to take BC-99 South if we want to get back to Seattle. Notice the font is different from Interstate
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/EB_17_over_99.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------

A not-so-clear guide sign directing to continue straight for the ferry terminal. From the picture, it may appear that you may get to ferries by taking either West or East Ladner Trunk Road, which is incorrect :ohno:
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/sign_ferries1.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, we are heading South on BC-17 which will end at the ferry terminal. Along the way, they have an electronic sign that shows the delay time for ferry schedule. This time the 11:00 Ferry was full, so we had to wait 2+ hours :(
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/electr_sign_ferries.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally, we are boarding on a 13:00 ferry to Swartz Bay (Victoria)
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/into_ferry.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------

To be continued...

Thanks for the pics!

Last year I drove from Whitefish, Montana to Franks Slide along Hwy 3 in Alberta (OMG, now I'll have to post pics of my trip!) and your post reminded me: BC consistently uses jersey barriers instead of metal guardrails. Very unusual.

Awesome pics, post more :)

BC consistently uses jersey barriers instead of metal guardrails. Very unusual.
You mean concrete barriers? I am not good in terminology. If so, then it is not that unusual on the West Coast because concrete barriers are much more abundant here than metal guardrails. Plus, they are safer :)

Vielen Dank für die Blumen... err, Bilder! :D Hehe, I remembered a song and got carried away... :) But the statement holds, great photos! I guess there's continuation?

^^ Hehe, whatever I can gather from the Island and the Vancouver itself ;) A bit later.

You mean concrete barriers? I am not good in terminology. If so, then it is not that unusual on the West Coast because concrete barriers are much more abundant here than metal guardrails. Plus, they are safer :)

Yes, concrete barriers with that magically-shaped double-beveled face. I haven't been out west much, but on my trip I noticed that BC used them far more than either Montana or Alberta.

Nice pictures.

I think the Interstate Font is the most used, a lot of countries are using it.

Wow, great pics! I hope it was an enjoyable trip! :)

BC has a nice route marker. Its very bright and colourful.

http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/guide_sign_ferries.jpg



I'd like to see this more often in North America- combining the route marker and direction ON the sign giving distances. Obviously, that's a common practice in much of Europe- I think it would also work quite well here.

Great pics, can't wait til the next part. :)

Now, we are passing over BC-99 and a sign tells us to take BC-99 South if we want to get back to Seattle.

Notice the font is different from Interstate

http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/EB_17_over_99.jpg


Yeah, that's an old sign with outdated font circa 1960's or 1970's. Notice the route marker is just simple black lettering on white background as opposed to the correct coloured route marker.

That old font looks like the Mexican font.

Yeah, that's an old sign with outdated font circa 1960's or 1970's.
In former USSR they still use the font similar to this with only capital letters.

Wow, great pics! I hope it was an enjoyable trip! :)
Thank you, it was a very enjoyable trip indeed especially in the middle of a crazy semester ;) Too bad the break is over and I need to go back to school :(

I'd like to see this more often in North America- combining the route marker and direction ON the sign giving distances. Obviously, that's a common practice in much of Europe- I think it would also work quite well here.
I would even prefer yet the greater degree of standardisation than this, but at least it's better than the US distance signs without route number on the sign.

I would even prefer yet the greater degree of standardisation than this, but at least it's better than the US distance signs without route number on the sign.

And here's the best part: it would be cheaper than what's done now. The distance signs are already in place- it would be less expensive to add the route marker to those signs in the future with the eventual goal of not needing the stand-alone reassurance route marker. Win-win. :)

And here's the best part: it would be cheaper than what's done now. The distance signs are already in place- it would be less expensive to add the route marker to those signs in the future with the eventual goal of not needing the stand-alone reassurance route marker. Win-win. :)
Agree 100%. But then some conservative whinnies would cry about their heritage being taken away :D

All right, a few pictures from Vancouver Island. The ferry arrives to Swartz Bay after ~1.5 hours of sailing from Tsawwassen and we continue on the same BC highway 17. The distance from the ferry to Victoria city centre is about 30 km.

Find something unusual about this SUV? Yeah, an invisible driver :lol: My guess would be that the car was imported from Australia or New Zealand
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/invisible_driver1.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, a sign telling drivers to think metric. This one is very similar to the one posted right after the border, except for the green background. Intended for Americans arriving on the Washington State ferries from Anacortes, WA to Sidney, BC
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/thinkmetric2.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some general BC-17 pictures
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/SB_17_1.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here, if you pay closer attention you will see snow peaks of the Olympic National Park across the Straight of Juan de Fuca
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/SB_17_2.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I like that the acceleration lane marking (thick broken line) is run to the very end like in Europe (and pretty much everywhere else except for the USA)
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/SB_17_3.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you take a right turn, you will get to Trans-Canada Highway 1 which will lead to Nanaimo from where you can take ferry to Horseshoe Bay. From Horseshoe Bay you can either continue on Sea-to-Sky Highway toward Whistler or to the inland on Trans-Canada Hwy 1.
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/SB_17_4.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Getting close to the city centre
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/SB_17_5.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------------------

For now, I will take a break. Later I will try to find some pics from the drive to Vancouver. Hope you enjoyed this small report ;)

It's interesting, I wasn't aware that any Canadian provinces were resigning with the Clearview font. It looks good.

http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/SB_17_3.jpg



we have that here in PA and other parts in the east as well.

Superb, Alex ! Roads and cars in Canada look very huge. Signboards too.

It's interesting, I wasn't aware that any Canadian provinces were resigning with the Clearview font. It looks good.

Quebec is making the switch to clearview, and Ontario has also dabbled:
http://www.onthighways.com/QEW_images/QEW_dv_87_TB.jpg

Superb, Alex ! Roads and cars in Canada look very huge. Signboards too.
Thanks. However, with the petrol prices going up steadily, huge cars will not be the case for much longer :D

we have that here in PA and other parts in the east as well.
Yeah PA highways are nice, they also have yield signs at the entrance to the highway and a combined dashed and solid line to distinguish merging lanes from exiting ones (at least that was the case on I-80 and I-81 when I traveled there). But I think in NY the problem that Alex mentioned exists, i.e. the merging lane does not continue to the end.

In Europe, the exit and merging lanes have usually a different marking line, so they can't be confused with the ordinary lane markings.

In Europe, the exit and merging lanes have usually a different marking line, so they can't be confused with the ordinary lane markings.
Pretty much all over the world (including the USA), the exit and merging lanes have thicker shorter marking line. But in the US West, this marking is often starts too late and ends too early as to never make an acceleration/exit lane narrower than one car width.

Here is an example of marking line in California:
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/US_marking.jpg
--------------------------------------------

Marking line in Germany:
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/DE_marking.jpg
--------------------------------------------

Dutch weaving:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Weefvak.jpg

Chris, we started with a slightly different topic about merging and exit lanes. It is about whether you start running the merging line from the very beginning or not.

Here is how it is done in the majority of the USA:
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/US_marking_schem.gif
----------------------

How it is done in Canada and the rest of the world (Spain is a bit different):
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/non_US_marking_schem.gif
----------------------

It looks great, Alex, thanks. Still, I can not totally follow it. Do you have a map or something of the road you've driven?

Yeah, sure:

http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/canada/map_Canada_march_2008.png

How it is done in Canada and the rest of the world (Spain is a bit different):
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/non_US_marking_schem.gif
----------------------

Don't forget Denmark- Don't they just have three lines and then blank pavement until the merge point?

Yes, that's correct.

Like this:

http://lh3.google.com/ASWchris2/R0yj95VDtmI/AAAAAAAADNg/1dzbrladROc/foto%20309.jpg?imgmax=800

http://lh6.google.com/ASWchris/Rv6746GgwCI/AAAAAAAAIMs/fw5oXeI03G0/foto%20142.jpg

I have to add this actually works pretty good.

I am completely lost here. Originally, I was talking about the deceleration/acceleration lanes where you have 50-100 metres before you actually exit/enter the motorway.

Chris, your example is not valid because on the picture I don't see any acceleration/deceleration lanes.

Thanks, Alex, for your map. I understand it much better now!

Chris, your example is not valid because on the picture I don't see any acceleration/deceleration lanes.

That's right. Because there aren't any :lol:

Chris, you picture is not relevant in this discussion because Billpa mentioned the merging lane in Denmark. You, however, posted a picture of a lane that has already exited the motorway.

Here is what I was talking about:
E20 Copenhagen (http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=zWlQ2-BJCCk) <-- Pay attention to the merging lane marking around 15-16th second of the clip.

Or here - the marking line ends, but the merging (acceleration) lane keeps going for some time:
http://lh4.google.nl/ASWchris/RwKNcaGgzYI/AAAAAAAAIps/77cx8MCxXxc/foto%20025.jpg?imgmax=640

And finally, here is what Billpa meant by mentioning "three lines and then blank pavement until the merge point" ;)
http://webpages.csus.edu/~om37/pics/Denmark_marking.jpg

Billpa, you were right about Denmark.

I hate this type of marking line, M-45 exit to A2 (Madrid, Spain)

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6113/dibujoun8.jpg

What is wrong with that? They have it too in Denmark, works pretty good. It's a different kind of taper.

I agree with arriaca. In my opinion, a lane should clearly begin or clearly end, without splitting or merging.

As long as the lane marking works in conjunction with the signage (either through diagrammatic information or "EXIT ONLY" signs), I don't see a problem with either style.

^^ Sure, it is not a big deal. However, it is still better when the marking clearly shows which lane ends and who should yield upon merging. And all it takes is just a bit more paint ;)

I hate this type of marking line, M-45 exit to A2 (Madrid, Spain)
<picture>
This is very common in Ontario, whenever there is more than one lane exiting a motorway or when a motorway splits like in the above picture into perhaps two diverging motorways.

Often before exits you see this sign:
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/graphics/handbook_drivers/3-1-87.jpg
This sign is very common in Toronto and other cities, since almost all exits in big cities have at least 2 lanes. It means that the rightmost lane will split in the middle like this and exit. One confusing thing about this sign is that while it implies that the 2 right-most lanes are exiting (which is true in a way), it actually means that the right-most lane (with the word EXIT under it) will actually begin as an exit lane, i.e. it does not yet exit, so the lane to the left of it is actually the rightmost current through lane. I got confused like this at first, staying in the 2nd lane from the right thinking that it would split, but it just continued :)

The sign for a splitting motorway is this one, although it's not as confusing as the above sign:
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/graphics/handbook_drivers/3-1-90.jpg

I agree with arriaca. In my opinion, a lane should clearly begin or clearly end, without splitting or merging.
I agree, but strictly speaking, if you have a split like the one above, you don't really have a choice. The only way to make a proper beginning and end is to physically add multiple new exit lanes to the right, which isn't always possible, especially when a motorway splits into two different motorways.

Hi all!

Me and some friends are planning a summer holiday roadtrip, we've done this already a couple of times in previous years. Usually we don't really plan the excact route and destinations, just going where the highway takes us.

This year though we wanted something more adventurous than Spain, France or Italy. The idea came to explore the balkan area by car. We all feel very attracted by this region.

We have set ourselves to include city trips, fun, culture and outdoor sports. During a brainstorm and some searching on the internet a list of possible destinations was made:

City trips and culture:
-Ljubljana, Slovenia
-Zagreb, Croatia
-Sofia, Bulgaria
-Istanbul, Turkey
-Dubrovnik, Croatia

Fun, beaches and nightlife:
-Sunny Beach, Bulgaria
-Marmaris, Turkey
-Corfu, Greece

Nature, outdoors, active:
-suggestions?

Feel free to make suggestions for other cities, beaches, hotspots and all other places worth visiting. The best and most beautiful places are the ones only known by locals.
Here is a map with the global route we has in mind:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2470/roadtripoe7.th.png (http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=roadtripoe7.png)

Some other questions we have are the following (It's not ment to be offensive in any way, but i do need honest answers about possible risks):
-Is it safe to travel through countries like Serbia, Albania, Bulgaria etc?
-What can we expect at bordercrossing between the various countries?
-What are the do's and don'ts in the various countries
-Are euro's widely accepted?
-Which regions do you consider dangerous for tourists?

I hope to see some honest aswers and good suggestions, Thanks in advance!

First thing is, i spent 2 weeks in Croatia. I can only tell about this country.


City trips and culture:
-Zagreb, Croatia
-Dubrovnik, Croatia


Dubrovnik is beautiful, but also you should visit Zadar and Split.

Nature, outdoors, active:
-suggestions?

You can't tell, you've seen Croatia without visiting Plitvica lakes. Also try to sail to Hvar and Bisevo (http://island-bisevo.croatian-adriatic.eu/)

-Is it safe to travel through countries like Serbia, Albania, Bulgaria etc?
-Which regions do you consider dangerous for tourists?

I wouldn't travel through Albania and Kosovo.
In Bosnia there are still many mined areas. Drive only asphalted roads, don't step aside.

-What can we expect at bordercrossing between the various countries?

I crossed borders from Slovenia to Croatia and from Croatia to Bosnia usually even without showing my passport. But also i've seen cars asked to customs control, especially these filled with bags or pulling caravan or boat. If it's possible, drive through small bordercrossings, main ones are usually jammed and you can loose much time.

-Are euro's widely accepted?

In Slovenia it's no problem at all ;). In Croatia also, there are many money changes. Some of them, in big cities, change money without fees. In Bosnia (Mostar) euro and croatian kuna are accepted. If you pay in euro, goods are a little bit cheaper.

And don't buy cd's dvd's and movies in Bosnia. I wonder if they know, what copyright is.

I got a similar idea yesterday when watching the Romanian and Bulgarian highway topics.

I've done a little roadtrip last year from Budapest to Zagreb, Zagreb to Dubrovnik and on to Italy.

Croatia has some of the best highways in the world with little traffic, watch out for the cops though they have modern undercover Mercedes's that will pull you over ;)

Going down from Dubrovnik to Tirana is doable, but from Tirana down to Greece I would say is not good, road is in terrible condition and if your car hits a puthole and breaks down you're fucked. Maybe you can go from Tirana through Macedonia to Greece instead. Greek roads are fine, drivers are a bit crazy though but that's the story of the Balkans.

Going from Sofia to Belgrade is no problem at all. Be aware that a lot of trucks are heading from Turkey to Western Europe, which can make driving very exhausting. In most countries people do accept euro's but they can and some will rip you off with the exchange rate. Bringing some spare local currency can also speed up your border crossings :D

Travelling to the Balkan's I would advise you to select an hotel at each town you want to visit, and if you're planning a long trip pick a backup hotel somewhere along the route in case you are delayed. Often you can make reservations without having to pay beforehand. In towns like Dubrovnik and Zagreb and probably most of Greece and Turkey you will always be able to find a good hotel or campsite upon arrival, but in the other countries make a reservation in advance.

why not visiting Belgrade:)

One more thing: you should drive Thessaloniki-Sofia road. :D

i know quite many people who traveled to Albania by car and there are no major problems as kids with kalashnikovs, like people are used to expect there.anyway, infrastructure is still at the beginnings of the construction so that's the main reason why it's better to travel carefully and during the day. and you can be robbed also in Sweden or Switzerland, right? ;) at the trip you are never safe enough, but people who are planning trips like this usually know it and know how to take care ;)

fo return route through Croatia i'd suggest not to take A1 or D1, but D8 road which runs just next to the sea from Dubrovnik to Rijeka. scenery is beatiful, road is in good condition (although in summer it is jammed), it doesn't run through centres of the places, but you can stop whereever you expect to see something nice. and scenery is wonderfull because in each moment at the right side you have mountains, and at left sea and islands. especially i like part from Zadar to Rijeka which is not touristicly exposed too much yet. the only bad thing in case of using D8 is missing the Plitvice lakes. also, average speed without stopping will be max 55, maybe 60, so plan at least 3 h for Dubrovnik - Split or 4 h Zadar - Rijeka

of course, in summer border crossings are jammed because of huge amount of vehicles. avoid friday-sunday period for bordercrossings and it will not hurt so much ;)

One more thing: you should drive Thessaloniki-Sofia road. :D

Yeah definatly, and make some real Struma pics :)

^^ No doubt :lol:!Some info about Bulgaria if you are going into Bulgaria from Serbia(Kalotina) there is no problem of going to the Black Sea or even Turkey because the roads are well maintained and from Sofia-Bourgas there are 280/370 km highway(Trakiya motorway);if you're heading for Turkey then you follow Trakiya motorway and right after Plovdiv there is a sign for Istanbul.Then you are on the E80 heading for Istanbul(Maritsa motorway).You follow the road to the town Svilengrad and there is the border!When you get in Turkey there is motorway all the way to Istanbul ;)

I would recommend you Krka and Kornati NP in croatia for nature part, they are really stunning and easily accessible

i would recommend Pirin,Rila and especially Mussala(2925m)-the highest peak on the Balkans ;)!Maybe Rodopi and Stara Planina and the Rose Valley near Kazanlak ;)

Plitvice Lakes National Park (http://www.np-plitvicka-jezera.hr/cpage.aspx?page=default.aspx&pageID=87)

Paklenica National Park (http://www.paklenica.hr/En/index_en.html)

Krka National Park (http://www.npkrka.hr/html_en/uvod_en.htm)

There are more but these are on your way from Zagreb to Dubrovnik. And also visit Zadar and Split.

When you enter Turkey from Bulgaria, you will use TEM Motorway. It's wide, flat and well developed all the way through Istanbul so you'll be in Istanbul two hours later. I advice you to drive at night through Istanbul because it is possible to spend more than 2 hours for enter Istanbul after your arrival because of traffic jam. Many people try to turn back at home from industrial areas around... you can go crazy because of the traffic. After your visit in Istanbul, I suggest you to pass Bosphorus through Anatolian side and go to Kartal by seaside way from Kadikoy through Kartal! And use ferry instead of motorway through south from Anatolian side of Istanbul to Yalova or Bursa. Marmaris is way more southern than Izmir. If you want to go there you need to pass whole Agean.

I hope you will enjoy... have a nice trip...:)

Oh, I want to add fuel is far more expensive in Turkey than any other country around. So keep your tank full in Bulgaria before entering Turkey:)

Btw we made a similiar trip in Balkans( Bulgaria, Serbia, Albania, Bosnia, Croatia...) in the late 90's. It was crazy and adventurous. I was a child but enjoyed so much, nothing bad happened... This is 2008, I guess ex-commie countries are far more safer now;)

Visit the Castles and Fortresses link in my signature for some attractions ;).

Other than that, I dont know how long you will stay at different places, but renting a sea side property in Croatia can be very rewarding ;) . Altough I dont know how easy it is to do so south of split, I did so north of Split but then again i come from the region so we know people down there... now if you will stop by anywhere in bosnia you might be interested in a guided hiking tour, there are several hiking companies there and the nature is fantastic with its contrasts, height differences, saturated green fields and forests. One of the last remaining primeval forests of Europe are in Bosnia. So it fits the "nature/outdoor" label. As far as mines are concerned they are pretty well mapped and its not a problem if you would take a guided tour.

here are some images http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=487674

http://www.mtsobek.com/mts/bos

http://www.bosnian-mountaintourism.com/

http://www.ilovebosnia.com

... and some more galleries http://www.bosnian-mountaintourism.com/gallery/

Im sure you can find more organizers as well. Some croatian based ones lead you through bosnia as well especially if you are going rafting etc, so youd experience both nations. Whereas some bosnian ones will have offers for the croatian coast as well...

As you know, we're in the same Eurozone as you are :D and Montenegro and Kosovo use euro too. You shouldn't miss Bled (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bled) in Slovenia, Belgrade, Ephesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephesus) (Efes) in Turkey and Plitvice Lakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plitvice_Lakes) in Croatia (beside those you listed). And Struma, of course. :lol:

Ohrid lake and Ohrid town in Macedonia is just great

I'm a bit biased, but I'd suggest taking a turn through Macedonia also :D


Going down from Dubrovnik to Tirana is doable, but from Tirana down to Greece I would say is not good, road is in terrible condition and if your car hits a puthole and breaks down you're fucked. Maybe you can go from Tirana through Macedonia to Greece instead.


The roads are good on the (red) part of the route that I've drawn. There are some nice towns along the way, most of all Ohrid:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=439985
Ohrid and the whole lake area is stunning. It is UNESCO's both cultural and natural heritage protected site.

Also there are some other interesting towns on the route, Bitola for example:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=213696
If you are into archeology, there are two very important archeological sites just by the road.
Heraclea Lyncestis:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heraclea_Lyncestis
and Stobi:http://www.build.com.mk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=161

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q213/realek/roadtripoe7.jpg

^^ yes you shouldn't miss it ;)

Oh, if you're into caves (or just wanna cool down a bit), the Postojna Cave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postojna_Cave) in Slovenia is breathtaking and Slovenia's top tourism site, with the country's only metro. :lol:

Oh, if you're into caves (or just wanna cool down a bit), the Postojna Cave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postojna_Cave) in Slovenia is breathtaking and Slovenia's top tourism site, with the country's only metro. :lol:

:okay:

City trips and culture:

I'd add Kotor and Budva


Fun, beaches and nightlife:

Budva seems to be quite nice



-Are euro's widely accepted?

As for Croatia yes, but you only get back HRK (Kuna).
In Montenegro Euro is the official currency (without being an official member of the Euro-Zone)

In Bosnia there are still many mined areas. Drive only asphalted roads, don't step aside.



Also in Croatia thera are some mined areas e.g. near Zadar, on the Island of Vis and in eastern Slavonia

If you are willing to endure some serious congestion on main 2-lane highways, you can also go through Romania.

I especially recommend:
1. The Prahova Valley for some nice scenery. My favourite town is Busteni. You can take the cable-car to the plateau (at 2200m +) or you can hike through the thick forest (it's a different experience than going through an alpine forest, trust me - it's denser and you can actually smell the scent of fir trees). A great walk would be to Urlatoarea (Howling) waterfall.
Also in Sinaia you can visit the Peles Castle - a magnificent piece of architecture. The resort itself has a distinct architectural style (except for the commieblocks & hotels and the glass-covered villas :bash:)

2. Also Bran Castle (a.k.a. Dracula's) is very nice.

3. Ceausescu's palace in Bucharest is worth a look.

Thanks for all your comments so far!

Ohrid and its lake look very interesting and if the road from Greece through Albania is really that bad it might be a good alternative. Too bad we have to skip Corfu then.
About Greece: Any cities with good nightlife and beaches on the route from Turkey towards Thessaloniki?

why not visiting Belgrade:) I don't really know much about Belgrade, is it worth visiting and safe? (no offence but what we hear about it is not always positive)

About Istanbul: Is it easy to find a affordable hotel or hostel? any suggestions?

A couple friends of mine have been to Belgrade and said it was good fun and quite safe.

Albanian road:

http://k43.pbase.com/u43/emmerich/large/27807492.Albania134.jpg

But as you can see in the Albanian highways topic most of the roads are much better:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=18896608

The whole region is more safe than any:puke: town in the states. So the questions like is it safe etc. are really :puke:
And there are mines in whole Europe dating from WW2, but it doesn't mean it is unsafe to travel trough Europe. Mines in Bosnia are in very remoted areas and if u wanted to step on one u would reallly have to make effort.
And no one will rip u off if u pay in euros.

My suggestions for Bosnia are Mostar, Pocitelj and Bunda
They are really close to Adriatic so it will not be mayor de-tour.
The town Mostar is worth visiting, old core is under Unesco protetcion (look at today's banner)
There is river Buna well and old Tekija, great nature, culture and history.
Same goes for Pocitelj.

Rafting on Neretva river is really great expirience.

http://www.bhtourism.ba/eng/

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mostar
http://www.visitmostar.net/

etc.

@ CborG

I'd say Belgrade is as safe as any big city in Europe.

And don't worry about accommodation in Istanbul. The central parts are riddled with small/medium affordable hotels. You don't even need suggestions, you can literally arrive there in 3am and find a place in no time (happened to me once :D)

The whole region is more safe than any:puke: town in the states. So the questions like is it safe etc. are really :puke:
And there are mines in whole Europe dating from WW2, but it doesn't mean it is unsafe to travel trough Europe. Mines in Bosnia are in very remoted areas and if u wanted to step on one u would reallly have to make effort.
And no one will rip u off if u pay in euros.

CborG was asking for honest opinions not for Balkan propaganda :nuts:

i'd say that the most dangerous place in Belgrade is Slavija roundabout because it is the most confusing intersection at Balkan :D that's all about Belgrade being dangerous.

Thanks for all your comments so far!

Ohrid and its lake look very interesting and if the road from Greece through Albania is really that bad it might be a good alternative. Too bad we have to skip Corfu then.
About Greece: Any cities with good nightlife and beaches on the route from Turkey towards Thessaloniki?


Well I'd say the Asprovalta region including the Halkidiki Penensula ;)!For Halkidiki
you should know that Mount Athon is the most peaceful,Sithounia is not so quiet but again peaceful and last Kassandra is the bussiest of all but there you can have a lot of fun ;)!Anything to add my Greek friends? :D

Mostar is ruined, but really beautiful city.

Landscapes.
http://images25.fotosik.pl/198/326cc835ac9a24f8.jpg

http://images29.fotosik.pl/198/fc1de8d7d44e3b81.jpg

http://images34.fotosik.pl/223/947532bbcdce1ef0.jpg

Bridge.
http://images28.fotosik.pl/199/4c6598a64cd01465.jpg

http://images33.fotosik.pl/224/827ad99612d7fac9.jpg

Other bridges and river.
http://images27.fotosik.pl/198/960967a4ee348aca.jpg

http://images30.fotosik.pl/199/6ab8d796ab102588.jpg

Mosques.
http://images25.fotosik.pl/198/7e095de38c0b9457.jpg

http://images30.fotosik.pl/199/bd5ee2f45c84a4f0.jpg

Mostar by night.
http://images32.fotosik.pl/223/3811113b4c120d7a.jpg

http://images32.fotosik.pl/223/c57ee7380080b4dc.jpg

War reminders.
http://images34.fotosik.pl/223/fd469bc5c6e0d4e2.jpg

http://images33.fotosik.pl/224/f4472a63a725c854.jpg

http://images25.fotosik.pl/198/5c5f04518048fe4b.jpg

I guess in 5 years this will be a great located 5-star hotel.
http://images31.fotosik.pl/223/c1f2ffbfc9b33b07.jpg

^^ Why haven't they demolished that building?

CborG was asking for honest opinions not for Balkan propaganda :nuts:

and where do u see propaganda?
Well all those bullshits riping off, mines, unsafety that is real propaganda.
And also i am sure that Amsterdam is less safe than any town in Bosnia.

^^ Why haven't they demolished that building?

because it is under protection and they can not demolish it. And there is not enough funds to repeare whole Mostar at once.

Can't you understand my doubts? Various travel sites on the internet all state that landmines are still a big issue in rural area's. The bigger cities maybe relatively safe but the thousands of UN troops still stationed in Bosnia are there for a reason, and i recon it isn't because of the historic cities en nature. I would love to visit Bosnia someday, no doubt, only not this holiday.

About Istanbul: Is it easy to find a affordable hotel or hostel? any suggestions?

You can find every kind of hotel easily just in minutes:) But you know it's a huge city, I mean HUUGE... so be careful and try to find tidy, clean and straight hotel, otherwise you can find yourself in a gay party or in an ultra dirty twister place etc...:D I advice you to make some search on web, learn more things about districts and I advice you to stay around Taksim or Nisantasi which is very enjoyable both at day and night or if you have more money try to find somewhere around Bosphorus' districts:)

Come on guys, stop arguing.

I was told by bosnian guide about these mines near Mostar.

And my opinion about Kosovo and Albania is based on what i watch on tv. This is only reason, why i wouldn't like to drive there. I would be affraid to go there.

Can't you understand my doubts? Various travel sites on the internet all state that landmines are still a big issue in rural area's. The bigger cities maybe relatively safe but the thousands of UN troops still stationed in Bosnia are there for a reason, and i recon it isn't because of the historic cities en nature. I would love to visit Bosnia someday, no doubt, only not this holiday.

Wait, I don't understand...are you going for mine hunting or what!?!? I can assure you that people throught all off Bosnia and Hercegovina are very friendly and welcoming, what if I would say that I do not suggest people to go to NYC 'cause you can get killed for a pair of snickers (which is true)!!?!?
And all that stories about Belgrade being unsafe for foreigners is hyped bollocks, it is nice historical city which is worth visiting every day across the year. A few of my friends made a legendary bicycle trip from Budapest to Afghanistan in 2003 (Cyclopolo project) and they flawlessly crossed my country only having some problems in Turkey (watch for the drivers in that country....pure LUNATICS!!!!), so....I can assure you that trip to Croatia, Bosnia and Serbia are not as near as dangerous as walking throught Milan, LA or Istambul in the middle of the night.

Let's stop this discussion, i don't want this thread to be closed..

That's an excellent decision CborG, to visit Balkans. :okay: Beautiful nature, beautiful people and richness of history are in one place presented together. You shouldn't be aware much becuse this region is pretty safe.



I don't really know much about Belgrade, is it worth visiting and safe? (no offence but what we hear about it is not always positive)


More about Belgrade, you can read in these two foreign magazines:

Metro (Canada):
http://www.metronews.ca/toronto/Live/article/40648

The Sunday Times (UK):
http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/travel/holiday_type/music_and_travel/article2744286.ece

:cheers:

P.S.
One more tip:
To enter Serbia (I believe the same is valid for Bosnia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Albania) you don't need visa but have to show your passport. National ID is not enough, like entering EU countries.

Also, you can ask me by PM for any information you need. :okay:

CborG, the Sunny Beach isn't by Burgas, as you marked it, but by Varna. Also, I suggest Hemus or Trakya motorway, not that road in the middle (Hemus for Varna, of course).

CborG, the Sunny Beach isn't by Burgas, as you marked it, but by Varna.

Of course "Sunny Beach" is near Burgas... "Golden Sands" are near Varna :D

Oh, crap. :D

Can't you understand my doubts? Various travel sites on the internet all state that landmines are still a big issue in rural area's. The bigger cities maybe relatively safe but the thousands of UN troops still stationed in Bosnia are there for a reason, and i recon it isn't because of the historic cities en nature. I would love to visit Bosnia someday, no doubt, only not this holiday.

ignorance is bless.

Sunny Beach and Golden Sands are often mistaken :D!However Sunny Beach is twice bigger
than Golden Sands!Also recently Saint Vlas,Sunny Beach and Nessebar are connected :D and became one :lol::lol::lol:

Wasn't Golden Sands (and generally the area north of Varna) more "upper class"? At least in the past?

Wasn't Golden Sands (and generally the area north of Varna) more "upper class"? At least in the past?

it's definitely more known and famous. i had no idea that it is smaller

^^ "Golden Sands" ... "Albena" are a lot better ... "Sunny beach" is just awfull ... How would you feel to be locked together with at least 200 000 people in an area smaller than Dobrovnik old & new city, half of which is one huge construction site ? :nuts: Some people prefer such places though ... like alcohol tourism loving Scandinavian kids :nuts:

Sinemorets, Lozenets south of Sozopol used to be still nice places couple of years ago ... but with the construction boom on the Black sea shore i don't know how they exactly look like right now.

CborG should use the Croatian and Greek sea coast for
Fun and beaches ... on the Bulgarian coast one could find better only the nightlife IMO.


btw , here is my idea about a better route through Bulgaria.

The greenone goes through Veliko Tarnovo (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=225419&page=19) and Varna (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=342202&page=6).
The purple one goes through Plovdiv (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=325431) ...

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg44/naster1/route.jpg

The whole region is more safe than any:puke: town in the states. So the questions like is it safe etc. are really :puke:
And there are mines in whole Europe dating from WW2, but it doesn't mean it is unsafe to travel trough Europe. Mines in Bosnia are in very remoted areas and if u wanted to step on one u would reallly have to make effort.
And no one will rip u off if u pay in euros.

My suggestions for Bosnia are Mostar, Pocitelj and Bunda
They are really close to Adriatic so it will not be mayor de-tour.
The town Mostar is worth visiting, old core is under Unesco protetcion (look at today's banner)
There is river Buna well and old Tekija, great nature, culture and history.
Same goes for Pocitelj.

Rafting on Neretva river is really great expirience.

http://www.bhtourism.ba/eng/

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mostar
http://www.visitmostar.net/

etc.

I agree, ive never experienced any unsafety, the people are very friendly and considerate, often community oriented. You make a good point.

Anyway youve gotten plenty of good suggestions here. It depends on your interests.

Those guys who responding "it's all safe", and "NYC or Amsterdam is much more dangerous" are all from those countries. Things are a bit different if you are a tourist, you just experience things differently, maybe people are different towards tourists than locals.

Personally, i would skip Bosnia, Kosovo and Albania, until those countries have reached a higher level of infrastructure (and by that, i do not only mean roads, but other things too, like tourist infra, medical infra, etc).

^^ You're absolutely right!I totally share your opinion!

Those guys who responding "it's all safe", and "NYC or Amsterdam is much more dangerous" are all from those countries. Things are a bit different if you are a tourist, you just experience things differently, maybe people are different towards tourists than locals.

Personally, i would skip Bosnia, Kosovo and Albania, until those countries have reached a higher level of infrastructure (and by that, i do not only mean roads, but other things too, like tourist infra, medical infra, etc).
and u know much about medical or any other infrastructure in Bosnia (except highway infrastructure) :bash:

^^ You're absolutely right!I totally share your opinion!
Then he should skip Bulgaria as well. And all other countries on the Balakns, welll he shouldn't make this trip at all.

Best region in the world :lol:

Those guys who responding "it's all safe", and "NYC or Amsterdam is much more dangerous" are all from those countries. Things are a bit different if you are a tourist, you just experience things differently, maybe people are different towards tourists than locals.

Personally, i would skip Bosnia, Kosovo and Albania, until those countries have reached a higher level of infrastructure (and by that, i do not only mean roads, but other things too, like tourist infra, medical infra, etc).

BIH has ok, for instance, medical infrastructure. generally not worse in comparison with Serbia, Croatia or Slovenia.
about traveling abroad - i don't make differences wheater i'm traveling to London/Berlin/Amsterdam or Jakarta/Khartum/Quito. they all are foreign places and i must adopt myself to their rules, how stupid or strange it is to me. i could say that in London there is a huge possibility to be hit by car because of left-side driving, in Amsterdam to see high people (when i see somebody high in my country at the street, i find it totaly unappropriate) or in Berlin danger of neonazis. of course, everything generally functionate better in full developed countries, but to feel that you'll not come back alive from Balkan (as some have some thoughts) is silly.
the worst that you can get is electricity or water reduction ( i heard that it is often in Albania from my friend who went there), but it happens in south Croatia too if there is no rain for a long time

del

Those guys who responding "it's all safe", and "NYC or Amsterdam is much more dangerous" are all from those countries. Things are a bit different if you are a tourist, you just experience things differently, maybe people are different towards tourists than locals.

Personally, i would skip Bosnia, Kosovo and Albania, until those countries have reached a higher level of infrastructure (and by that, i do not only mean roads, but other things too, like tourist infra, medical infra, etc).
You dutch are way too safe and you believe media too much. 9 finns got killed in a motorway crash in Spain....gooshhh...I think I'll skip my Spain trip now.

:lol:

With only a bit longer trip,you could also visit Novi Sad and Osijek too...why skip them? Even if only for a few hours long rest-stop...And Edrine is also near your route too.

CborG, which vehicle are you going by, and how many people?

Personally, i would skip Bosnia, Kosovo and Albania, until those countries have reached a higher level of infrastructure (and by that, i do not only mean roads, but other things too, like tourist infra, medical infra, etc).

Maybe, but then it's practically impossible to visit the Adriatic coast (Dubrovnik etc.). I think they should be fine in Albania, at least in transit.

^^6 persons. We always hired a van like the Renault Traffic on previous trips but for the distance we want to travel this trip a more comfortable car is better. We've found an interesting deal on a car rental site; For 23 days a Renault Espace without kilometer limit for 1600 euro, divided by 6 makes that about 270 euro pp, which IMO is quite cheap. We probably do need a skibox on the roof for all the luggage.

Those guys who responding "it's all safe", and "NYC or Amsterdam is much more dangerous" are all from those countries. Things are a bit different if you are a tourist, you just experience things differently, maybe people are different towards tourists than locals.

Agree, and from my own experience I know you can run into different things in these countries than in western european countries, both positive and negative. So preparing a little won't hurt and listening to other experiences won't hurt either.

Personally, i would skip Bosnia, Kosovo and Albania, until those countries have reached a higher level of infrastructure (and by that, i do not only mean roads, but other things too, like tourist infra, medical infra, etc).

I think that driving from Dubrovnik to Greece through Albania and Macedonia is doable and safe. You won't cross Kosovo and the part of Bosnia that you cross on the way to Dubrovnik is only 25 kilometers and very beautiful.

Agree, and from my own experience I know you can run into different things in these countries than in western european countries, both positive and negative. So preparing a little won't hurt and listening to other experiences won't hurt either.



I think that driving from Dubrovnik to Greece through Albania and Macedonia is doable and safe. You won't cross Kosovo and the part of Bosnia that you cross on the way to Dubrovnik is only 25 kilometers and very beautiful.
Yes but all that bash Bosnia haven´t got any experience at all, coz if they had they would´nt bash it. And all their perception is based on BS media.

Nobody is bashing Bosnia at all, that's only what you make of it.

No the fact is that a lot of you have prejudices about these countries which are absolutely wrong... You can't tell unless you have seen it with your own eyes... Unsafe in Bosnia? Come on... From my own experience I can say that I felt much safer in "western Balkans" than in any other big city in the West (except Vienna).

Nobody is bashing Bosnia at all, that's only what you make of it.
when u talk about my country and all your experience is based on CNN coverage than it is bashing and has nothing to do with reality. It is if he had asked something about Netherlands and i am answering and i have never been there and have no clue about this country. that is what u r doing.

Personally, i would skip Kosovo and Albania, until those countries have reached a higher level of infrastructure (and by that, i do not only mean roads, but other things too, like tourist infra, medical infra, etc).

Albania is more developed than many in this thread know or like.

I know that. I've seen the pics and the videos of the Albanian Tourism office. It has a lot to offer, but still a long way to go.

It has a lot to offer, but still a long way to go.


And you think, that Serbia, Macedonia and Montenegro are much more developed? We are talking about the Balkans: It's not the place to make a difference between "bad", "worse" and "worst". ^^

Yes but all that bash Bosnia haven´t got any experience at all, coz if they had they would´nt bash it. And all their perception is based on BS media.

I don't think you were listening at all to what I said? I never bashed Bosnia or any Balkan country, just shared some of my personal experiences. But I believe listening was never the strongest point of people at the Balkan. :ohno:

I don't think you were listening at all to what I said? I never bashed Bosnia or any Balkan country, just shared some of my personal experiences. But I believe listening was never the strongest point of people at the Balkan. :ohno:

I dont think he was aiming that at you but at people in general who said things they had no experience of. That is okey altough it should be taken into consideration.

Personally i can only speak for Bosnia, Croatia and Slovenia, and as Ive said i never had any problems there. But again he has gotten a lot of good suggestions.

I hope you have a good and awarding trip.

Can't you understand my doubts? Various travel sites on the internet all state that landmines are still a big issue in rural area's. The bigger cities maybe relatively safe but the thousands of UN troops still stationed in Bosnia are there for a reason, and i recon it isn't because of the historic cities en nature. I would love to visit Bosnia someday, no doubt, only not this holiday.

Just to correct you the Nato led UN mission Sfor ended Dec. 05, 2005. Now there is only about 2000 strong European police force (Eufor) which assists the national armed forces and police. For your information the sites that you follow post the same information for the last 10 years with out caring to update it.
As for the comment on lack of infrastructure - lets put it like this – roads are not as bad as advertised its not like you have to travel 1000 km (400km at most) so what takes 3 hours by motorway takes 5-6 hours in Bosnia. But if you are tourist I think the idea is to see something not fly by.
Health care is no different than in most European countries better in the cities average in rural parts – for you information the war has been over for 12 years and the hospital are rebuild and have all necessary modern equipment.
As for accommodation you can find of all types the only difference is that except for the Holiday Inn in Sarajevo you will not find other recognizable names.
All these views you have are based on opinions of people who have prejudice towards an area than anything else; because when people know only the information for news which reports only what sells (sensation) and travel guides which update information only if they have economic incentive, someone paying them to advertise.
But then again its nothing new.:ohno:

^^6 persons. We always hired a van like the Renault Traffic on previous trips but for the distance we want to travel this trip a more comfortable car is better. We've found an interesting deal on a car rental site; For 23 days a Renault Espace without kilometer limit for 1600 euro, divided by 6 makes that about 270 euro pp, which IMO is quite cheap. We probably do need a skibox on the roof for all the luggage.

Have you considered hiring 2 smaller cars? Personally I wouldn't drive such big distances with 5 passengers next to me.

^^Hmm, you certainly will loose eachother out of sight in no time in a big city an it's probably more expensive to hire 2 cars. A Espace has 7 seats btw, so everybody has enough room.

The third row is not very comfortable for a long drive. My dad has an Espace. Front seats and 2nd row are very good.

CborG, I wrote you a big message today and I've lost it. If I was you, I'd do the trip a bit differently.

Slovenia-->Croatia--> Montenegro-->Albania-->Greece-->Turkey-->Bulgaria-->Macedonia-->Serbia-->back home

And as Turnovec pointed out already, you road in Bulgaria is quite wrong. Not only you won't use the motorways but you will also miss some interesting places. If you enter from Turkey, I'd do something similar to this. Go to the Black sea, from Varna you go to Veliko Tarnovo then you either go south for Plovdiv (which I'd do ;) ) and then Sofia or you go directly to Sofia. From Sofia go South, you pass through the UNESCO World herritage site- the Rila monastery, you then go taste some delicious wine in Melnik and you enter Macedonia.

Btw, about Bosnia and Hertzegovina, if you do what normal tourists do, see some historical sites, party a big in the towns and sleep in hotels, you won't have any problem at all.

And a small note to the others in the thread. You guys seem to forget our hospitality in the Balkans and you aggress people because you find them ignorant. It's better to explain and reassure than aggress immediately someone who asks questions. When you hear about land-mines you would be also worried if you didn't know the situation.

More important on this roadtrip, what to do when you get in trouble?

I mean car breakdown, needing medical attention, maybe some corrupt policemen etc. Do they speak English? I was in Poland a few years ago, and no custom official spoke English or German. Well, in France, they don't speak English too ofcourse.

CborG, I wrote you a big message today and I've lost it. If I was you, I'd do the trip a bit differently.

Slovenia-->Croatia--> Montenegro-->Albania-->Greece-->Turkey-->Bulgaria-->Macedonia-->Serbia-->back home

And as Turnovec pointed out already, you road in Bulgaria is quite wrong. Not only you won't use the motorways but you will also miss some interesting places. If you enter from Turkey, I'd do something similar to this. Go to the Black sea, from Varna you go to Veliko Tarnovo then you either go south for Plovdiv (which I'd do ;) ) and then Sofia or you go directly to Sofia. From Sofia go South, you pass through the UNESCO World herritage site- the Rila monastery, you then go taste some delicious wine in Melnik and you enter Macedonia.

Btw, about Bosnia and Hertzegovina, if you do what normal tourists do, see some historical sites, party a big in the towns and sleep in hotels, you won't have any problem at all.

And a small note to the others in the thread. You guys seem to forget our hospitality in the Balkans and you aggress people because you find them ignorant. It's better to explain and reassure than aggress immediately someone who asks questions. When you hear about land-mines you would be also worried if you didn't know the situation.

These kind of replies are what I was hoping for, thanks:)

And a small note to the others in the thread. You guys seem to forget our hospitality in the Balkans and you aggress people because you find them ignorant. It's better to explain and reassure than aggress immediately someone who asks questions. When you hear about land-mines you would be also worried if you didn't know the situation.
I tryed to explain it but some ppl are persistent in proving unprovable things.
And no body asked, but rather made comment.

CBorg, congratulations on your choice; this is a wonderful region to explore, although your plan may be a bit too ambitious. The discussion in this thread is very interesting, and keep it going, but for the real information free of local bickering go to http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/index.jspa and http://www.balkanology.com/ Have fun.

More important on this roadtrip, what to do when you get in trouble?

I mean car breakdown, needing medical attention, maybe some corrupt policemen etc. Do they speak English? I was in Poland a few years ago, and no custom official spoke English or German. Well, in France, they don't speak English too ofcourse.
Well i am sure that more people in Bosnia speak foreign languages than in e.g. France, Italy, Spain.
You know we have educational system and we are learning English and other foreign languages for decades now.
breakdown (tel. numbers 1282, 1285, 1282)
Also we have something that is called automotive club, actually 3 of them
http://www.bihamk.ba/mapa/news.aspx
http://www.ams-rs.com/
http://www.hakbih.ba/english.htm
medical attention (124)
The same thing that you do when you get sick in any other country, you go to the doctor. You know we have doctors, hospitals, Paramedics etc.
Police (122)
Firefighters (123)

Some people can not understand that world doesn´t end with old EU borders.
And in BiH there are so many strangers living here and tourist so you won't stick out like a sore thumb, we are very much used to foreign visitors. It is not like everybody is just waiting for someone outside to come just to rip, kill etc. them. Like many in dome countries think.

I doubt you will find many cops speaking English on Bulgarian roads but I've never been stopped there. For Bulgaria, normally if you sign for a "Auto-club" in Europe they assist in Bulgaria too, so no problems in case of a breakdown. At least not BIG problems ;)

The medical insurance of the Netherlands should work in Bulgaria and don't forget to have your European health card- it's easier to address administrative issues, if any, with the insurance. Here (http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/111372) are the important numbers to know in all Europe. Although by the time of the trip the 112 should work in couple of regions in Bulgaria, in Sofia it works already.

Ah and something else, people should be ready to have cash at the border crossings for any kind of bizarre taxes and "washing" stuff :lol: could be in place in different countries.

I don't think you were listening at all to what I said? I never bashed Bosnia or any Balkan country, just shared some of my personal experiences. But I believe listening was never the strongest point of people at the Balkan. :ohno:and understanding has never been your´s

http://www.balkanology.com/

Very informative site!! Thanks!

from my own experience, Slovenia and Croatia are very developed with highwways.. Bosnia & Herzegovina is just as good as all the rest in the balkans (bulgaria,Serbia,Albania,Macedonia etc..) The Mine thing in Bosnia is a joke, there are maps showcasing mined areas but then again not all is mapped, millions of people live in that country and you rarely hear about someone stepping on a mine. Sarajevo is really worth the trip.. I would go everywhere except Kosovo, Right now its kind of risky considering the Albanian/Serb and Nato issue. Have fun and always wrap your ding dong especially in Bulgaria.

Visiting here is a great idea. Yeah, we a bit oversensitive when Westerners ask questions like will you survive the visit, but you should ask them nevertheless. Better safe than sorry.

If you’re into some activities, simply take a detour, let’s say go to Viganj village (north of Dubrovnik, Peljesac peninsula) for a few days of windsurfing, snorkelling, swimming).

As for landmines, yes they are still around in Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina – truth is they are in remote areas, but if you get a wild idea to climb some cute hill along the way in Dalmatian hills, be sure to ask some locals if it’s safe before you actually do it.

Mine suspected areas in Croatia:
http://www.hcr.hr/en/minskaSituacijaKarta.asp?ID=1

If you’ll need road assistance in Croatia, call HAK (Croatian Auto Club)
http://www.hak.hr/roadside-assistance.aspx

Any kind of other emergency, just dial 112
http://www.duzs.hr/page.aspx?PageID=140

In Zagreb stay in one of the hostels, some among them are in pedestrian zone and in (expensive!) pay-parking zone, be sure to check this out before booking. Think good choices are Buzz, Carpe Diem, Youth Hostel in Odranska.
http://www.zagreb-touristinfo.hr/?id=51&l=e&nav=nav4

Along the coast there’s a lot of private renters (you’ll see them marked with SOBE, ROOMS, ZIMMER signs).

Your rent a car company will let you drive the vehicle to all of these countries?

Hmm there are more mines left in Croatia than i though. i thought they were only around Osijek/Vukovar.

Yes it's a serious problem that will take at least one more decade to be resolved. We use men and some specially designed machines, but it’s a horrible work – you can never be sure you did the job properly.



http://www.hrvatski-vojnik.hr/hrvatski-vojnik/042-432005/pictures/k2.jpg


Not to mention it costs money we don’t have so every now and then there are public fund raising events and stuff. It sucks, really.

Current data: 997 km2 mine suspected area in Croatia

Those are suspected areas,but yes there are still lot of mines.Although you wont come accros them in any national park or reservat.

BTW It would go much quicker if serbs woud give us maps where they lended mines.

Funny thing is when an european is surprised about mined areas...the continent was a battlefield 50 years ago,some areas even a few decades ago. For christ's sake,we've just found several bridge-buster bombs during a bridge-pillar reconstruction...yes,chances are higher you stumble upon a mine in extremely-rural Croatia or Serbia than in The Netherlands or France...on the other hand,it is highly unlikely a tourist will visit such places...

If you'll spend a night in Ljubljana, you can stay in what Lonely Planet proclaimed the world's best hostel (http://www.ukom.gov.si/eng/slovenia/news/id/index.html?&i1=UVI&i2=ang&i3=1&i4=sptj&i5=ter_lst_021&i10=artic&i12=FA81FA0630E856CAC12571800047FB4B&i15=on&j1=ISO-8859-2&j2=&j3=&j4=). :cheers: Celica (Cell) hostel's website (http://www.souhostel.com/en/index.html).

Funny thing is when an european is surprised about mined areas...the continent was a battlefield 50 years ago,some areas even a few decades ago. For christ's sake,we've just found several bridge-buster bombs during a bridge-pillar reconstruction...yes,chances are higher you stumble upon a mine in extremely-rural Croatia or Serbia than in The Netherlands or France...on the other hand,it is highly unlikely a tourist will visit such places...

Well said :okay:

Too bad we have to skip Corfu then.
About Greece: Any cities with good nightlife and beaches on the route from Turkey towards Thessaloniki?


Chalkidiki is a nice place IMO. You can see the thread here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=246817). It's positive that you won't deviate much since it's close to Thessaloniki.

For the rest cities of the Macedonian and Thracian regions of Greece here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1047)

Have a nice trip!
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/5600/982646dp3.jpg

Hvar should be a must, even though a bit of the highway routes, it is simply breathtaking!!! Been there the last four summers, and I have no plans changing my vacations routines whatsoever :rock:

I made a roadtrip through Germany and Denmark from last saturday until tuesday.

Travelled distance: 1,850 kilometers.
Fuel consumption: 1:17.4 (petrol) or 5.7 l per 100km

I've decided to take a few lesser motorways, but more other main roads, that way, one can see much more from the local scenery. I shot 1,377 photo's, and some video's. I stayed on campings with my 3-seconds tent in Denmark (Ribe, Hanstholm & Aabenraa). They costed me between € 13 and € 15,- per night, including electricity. On 2 campsites, i had a direct view over the sea from about 40m height.

In the next few days, i will upload my pics to the Picasa Webalbums. These are also downloadable by the way, so you can browse through the pictures on your own PC, if loading times are too slow.

Video: A31 Emstunnel

We start with a video, since my posts will be in chronological order. This video runs on the A31 Autobahn near Leer, through the Emstunnel. There were some roadworks, and a reverse holiday traffic jam in the other direction.

qLBq-Jv-jqg

A28 Leer - Oldenburg (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/A28LeerOldenburg)

The first photojourney runs from Dreieck Leer to Dreieck Oldenburg-West on the A28 motorway. The A28 is a quiet Autobahn, so average speed is quite high.

route:
http://i25.tinypic.com/2q86cmw.jpg

Picasa webalbum 52 pics (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/A28LeerOldenburg)

A293 Oldenburg (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/A293Oldenburg)

Journey 2 runs through the larger city of Oldenburg, over the A293 Autobahn, a motorway along the westside of Oldenburg. The A293 recently got exit numbers.

route:
http://i27.tinypic.com/207uw5z.jpg

Picasa webalbum 19 pics (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/A293Oldenburg)

B211 / B212 Oldenburg - Nordenham (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/B211B212OldenburgNordenham)

Journey 3 runs through the polders of the Jaderland, a flat area near the rivers Jade and Weser. The journey starts on the B211 near Kreuz Oldenburg-Nord, to Brake, where we take the B212 heading north to the Wesertunnel near Nordenham.

http://i27.tinypic.com/mkdn4p.jpg

Picasa webalbum 40 pics (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/B211B212OldenburgNordenham)

Video: B437 Wesertunnel

The B437 features a major road tunnel under the river Weser, which is quite wide here. The tunnel is the only connection across the Weser, north of Bremen, and connects Nordenham with Bremerhaven. The tunnel is quite new, opened in 2004, and is 1600 meters or 1 mile long, and goes 40 meters below sea level.

tkH2BEn2qI4

B71 - B74 - B73 Bremerhaven - Bremervörde - Stade - Hamburg (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/B71B74B73BremerhavenHamburg)

Journey 4 continues through the north of Niedersachsen (Lower Saxonia), quite a surprising area, because i expected quite flat and boring polders, however it was hilly with lots of forests. The part from Bremerhaven to Bremervörde goes via the B71, and to Stade via the B74. From Stade to Hamburg continues via the B73.

The B71 and B74 goes quite fast, traffic is very light there. The B73 is another story, it's a busy road from Stade to Buxtehude, and is 4-laned through suburban Hamburg, and very busy. The last few kilometers take a lot of time to travel. The A26 Autobahn is very much needed here.

http://i27.tinypic.com/126fq61.png

Picasa Webalbum 95 pics (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/B71B74B73BremerhavenHamburg)

Video: A7 Hamburg

Time for a video, this is video number 3. The video travels over the A7 motorway, through the port of Hamburg, where the containers are almost lined up at the shoulder, and the high Köhlbrandbrücke (bridge) is visible. Then we travel through the 2 mile / 3,2km long Elbetunnel (locally known as Elbtunnel), which consists of 4 tubes. After the tunnel, we continue until Interchange Dreieck Hamburg-Nordwest, where we take the A23 to Heide.

kH0qE2chvNU

A23 Hamburg - Itzehoe - Heide (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/A23HamburgHeide)

The next journey runs through the west of Schleswig-Holstein, from Interchange Dreieck Hamburg-Nordwest to Heide. The first few kilometers travels through the suburbs of mighty Hamburg, and near Itzehoe, there are a few kilometers of Autobahn missing. North of Itzehoe, we take a look at the massive bridge over the Northsea-Baltic Sea canal, and we also see shipping pass by. You can really see the size of the bridge and ships if you compare it to the campers on the other side of the canal. Finally we head to Heide, where the A23 ends, and continues over the B5.

route:
http://i26.tinypic.com/2qb98hu.jpg

Picasa webalbum 102 pics (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/A23HamburgHeide)

B5 Heide - Husum - Tønder (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/B5HeideTNder)

The road goes on. That's also the case on the B5 Bundesstraße, where we continue north. The B5 until Husum is a pretty fast route, well build-out, and few intersections, and low traffic. Further north it's a different story, since we pass by some towns. Note for travellers: The first gas station after Hamburg is in Husum, all the way on the A23 and B5, there are no gas stations! Something to keep in mind here.

route:
http://i26.tinypic.com/o2yl2.jpg

Picasa webalbums, 70 pics (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/B5HeideTNder)

Oh, that's a lot of pics.

You just saw the tip of the iceberg :D

Primærrute 11 Tønder - Varde (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/PrimRrute11TNderVarde)

Yay, we're in Denmark! We head north on the westcoast of Southern Jutland (Jylland) from Tønder via Ribe to Varde, just north of Esbjerg. The route is much more quiet than it's German B5 counterpart. The photo's were taken in 2 days, because i stayed in Ribe for one night, which is a touristic town.

route:
http://i30.tinypic.com/21mhgmc.jpg

Picasa webalbum 99 pics (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/PrimRrute11TNderVarde)

Chris, as usual, you're the man! :)
Do you hold the camera in your hand when you shoot videos (and pictures), or do you have it mounted on the dashboard? I am planning a very short trip on Friday, and hopefully my friend will be able to bring his camera, so I can publish a short video.

Great work, keep them coming :cheers:

I just point and shoot. Not really a problem, since i drive with one hand on the wheel 99% of the time, it's just a habit of me. Especially on those main roads, you normally don't need to shift gears. That's why you shouldn't see pics inside cities from me. Too dangerous.

http://i27.tinypic.com/jpexqa.jpg

A few pics of Ribe, a touristic town in the southwest of Denmark. I stayed here for one night.

Picasa webalbum, 26 pics (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/RibeDenmark)

Wow, thanks for posting, Chris! It's always good to see how the things are in different countries.

BTW, I wonder why the road has this appearance. Some roads in Spain get a bit darker on the sides of the lanes when the pavement gets older, but not that much (and not that perfectly). Is it due to winter wheels?
http://lh5.ggpht.com/ASWchris2/SCG-M9Skw6I/AAAAAAAAISs/LOn91sKs2ps/IMG_7504.JPG?imgmax=640

I'm not sure, however, i've seen lots of Danish roads looking like this. To me, it looks like they've repaved track formation or something. It was very smooth though, but it really doesn't look aesthetic.

I looks very strange, I have never seen something like this (apart from some 2-laned Slovak roads with deep tracks in it, making it look a bit the same)

U should have let me know.... i was BBQing last sunday in Aalborg:)

Sekundærrute 181 Varde - Hvide Sande - Thorsminde - Lemvig (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/SekundRrute181VardeLemvig)

Get ready for one of the most scenic roads in Denmark. This 120km journey shows us the southern part of Route 181, from Varde all the way along the west coast to near Lemvig. The road winds through the dunes for most of the time, and we can see laguna's, fjords and the sea, because i made a rest stop at beach #133. The further up north, the more quiet the road gets, with sometimes zero traffic for minutes. Very relaxing drive.

route:
http://i32.tinypic.com/oj4i9j.png

Picasa webalbum, 144 pics (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/SekundRrute181VardeLemvig)

Chris, any ideas why Danish put "km" on their speed signs? UK is pretty far from Denmark, so it is not easy to confuse measuring systems in that area.

^ Austrians also do that, and they are nowhere near UK.

That route #181 looks beautiful.

Great work mate - that's some collection of road pics you got yourself there :)

Love the videos btw :okay:

Chris, any ideas why Danish put "km" on their speed signs? UK is pretty far from Denmark, so it is not easy to confuse measuring systems in that area.Southern Jutland has ferry connections to the UK and get's British drivers/cars in large numbers.. - on Zealand I don't remember having seen such...

I wonder why the road has this appearance. Some roads in Spain get a bit darker on the sides of the lanes when the pavement gets older, but not that much (and not that perfectly). Is it due to winter wheels?
http://lh5.ggpht.com/ASWchris2/SCG-M9Skw6I/AAAAAAAAISs/LOn91sKs2ps/IMG_7504.JPG?imgmax=640As Chriszwolle wrote they have repaved the worn tracks in the road...

Don't ask me why they don't just redo or overpave the entire road - that's just how they do in places with a lot of truck traffic... I guess it's faster and cheaper.. :dunno:

Thinking about it it might have something to do with noise reduction - road noise have been a big issue many places and they have gone to great lenghts to make "low noise" asphalt - maybe that's why - it's certainly cheaper than putting up noise barriers - although it still doesn't make sense why they don't do it properly to begin with.. maybe it doesn't pass water trough as good, so they keep the old on unused areas to do that :dunno:

Great trip, thank you for the post!! I also love to take my weekends to make a ride. I'd like to have this easyness to take the car on a weekend and travel for 3 countries, here in one weekend, leaving the state is already too much!

^ Be happy you don't have to show your documents every 200 km or so, like in Europe. Luckily the Schengen Area has grown quite much (which is useful also in this particular trip).

Yeah i didn't have to show my passport or drivers license once, while i passed through 4 border crossings. I really love Schengen!

I'll upload more pics tomorrow, i still have a whole bunch of them.

Sekundærrute 513 Lemvig - Struer (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/SekundRrute513LemvigStruer)

A rather short journey from route 181 west of Lemvig, through Lemvig to route 11 near Struer. A quite surprising area, with sometimes steep hills and gradients on the road.

route:
http://i27.tinypic.com/fo27nt.jpg

Picasa webalbum 31 pics (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/SekundRrute513LemvigStruer)

Primærrute 11 Struer - Ydby (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/PrimRrute11StruerYdby)

Another part of main route 11, now through the lakes and fjords of northern Denmark. We only take route 11 for 30 kilometers. We cross the Oddesund bridge, where dozens of people were fishing from. Also, i take a short break at a parking lot right next to the water.

route:
http://i27.tinypic.com/15mbvwk.jpg

[b]Picasa webalbum 47 pics (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/PrimRrute11StruerYdby)

Sekundærrute 527 Ydby - Vestervig (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/SekundRrute527YdbyVestervig)

A short journey from Ydby to Vestervig via route 527, which brings us back to the route 181 i've been following for a while. The road is hilly and curvy.

Picasa webalbum, 18 pics (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/SekundRrute527YdbyVestervig)

Sekundærrute 181 Vestervig - Hanstholm (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/PrimRrute181VestervigHanstholm)

We approach the northernmost point of my journey. This trip takes us on the route 181 again, which winds through dunes and forests. This area is called "Thy", and is on the list to be approved as a national park. On the pics you can see why. I made a little stop to climb an high dune. There was sea fog near the coastline, but i didn't have any problems from it on the road. Temperature could drop 10 degrees within a few hundred meters. At last, i end in Hanstholm, a port town where the ferries to Norway, Faeroer and Iceland depart. We end the serie with some pics of the port of Hanstholm from above.

route:
http://i26.tinypic.com/2rwot9y.jpg

Picasa webalbum 75 pics (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/PrimRrute181VestervigHanstholm)

http://lh5.ggpht.com/ASWchris2/SCG-M9Skw6I/AAAAAAAAISs/LOn91sKs2ps/IMG_7504.JPG?imgmax=640
This type of repaving is quite common in Estonia, especially in the cities, because it's cheap :D, but I would not have expected this kind of repaving in Denmark.

@ Chriszwolle: Can we expect photos from the last streches too? Was kind of looking forward to them. :-)

http://lh5.ggpht.com/ASWchris2/SCG-M9Skw6I/AAAAAAAAISs/LOn91sKs2ps/IMG_7504.JPG?imgmax=640
This type of repaving is quite common in Estonia, especially in the cities, because it's cheap :D, but I would not have expected this kind of repaving in Denmark.

You'll see this everywhere in Denmark...

@ Chriszwolle: Can we expect photos from the last streches too? Was kind of looking forward to them. :-)

Oh yeah, i'll upload them soon (this evening) :)

Primærrute 29 Hanstholm - Aars (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/PrimRrute29HanstholmAars)

We head southeast, from Hanstholm to Primærrute 11, which runs concurrent with the Primærrute 29 to Fjerritslev. We end just south of Aars, at the intersection with Primærrute 13. The entire route can be described as scenic, since we hit some lakes, forests, and the entire area is quite hilly.

route:
http://i31.tinypic.com/2ignfh3.jpg

Picasa webalbum 76 pics (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/PrimRrute29HanstholmAars)

http://lh5.ggpht.com/ASWchris2/SCtDPpSPnTI/AAAAAAAAJSw/JKwACxpaUJ0/IMG_7987.JPG?imgmax=720

Lovely. :cheers:

Aars is a nice name. Especially in dutch :D

Yes, it means Arse or Ass :D

...that I am considering.

Stockholm to Hamburg and back on Sat-Sun.

2,800 km round trip I think.

We'll see! :D

Make sure to make some pics, especially from the E4! :) I hope the weather stays okay, it's been clear skies for the last 2 weeks, however, it's a bit more unstable now in the Netherlands.

^^The rain is slowly coming over here. Unfortunaltely the warm weather is gone. Anyway, I'm looking forward to pics of this trip!

Great, my dad is also going to Hamburg this weekend for the first time, but he's departing from Switzerland and going by train. :D Btw, isn't 2,800 km too much for two days?

11 hours one way, going with a friend so it's doable. We'd leave at 1:30 am or so to have most of Saturday to see Hamburg and then leave around lunchtime on Sunday. Done more in the past. :)

Length and such isn't much of a worry...my main concern is the money. Not sure if I have the money to finance this!

Regarding the weather: last weekend in Stockholm at least it was 25 and sunny, absolutely beautiful! This week it's kind of chilly, around 7-10 degrees. However the weekend is looking ok...nothing like last weekend but a bit warmer and dry, at least. :)

Primærruten 13 & 12 Aars - Viborg - Herning (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/PrimRruten1312AarsViborgHerning)

We head southwest after Aars, through a hilly and quite forested area. Some lakes are visible, as well as climbing lanes, and even a piece of road with 2+2 lanes with no center divider.

Route:
http://i29.tinypic.com/25f4nwn.jpg


Picasa webalbum 69 pics (http://picasaweb.google.nl/ASWchris2/PrimRruten1312AarsViborgHerning)

^^ Nice, looking forward to the next. :)

Btw, did you notice the terrible road between Karup and Herning (close to Ilskov where you drove 72 km/h)? The road was made by the germans during the war with some kind of big concrete "plates", which you feel when you drive over them. They've tried to fix it many times, but it never seems to work out really well. :nuts:

Yes, i felt that. Concrete slabs. It was not that bad though. If they really want to rehabilitate it, they have to remove the slabs and repave it with asphalt.

True, it's not as bad now as it has been. But I'll bet that in a year or two it's back to "normal".

Total repavement seems like the only solution to fix it yes.

1400 kms in 11 hours? Isn't that a bit too optimistic?

127 km/h on average. I really don't think that's feasible, though you shouldn't expect traffic jams. If you drive 120 the most of the time, your average is still 100km/h.

However, i did Aabenraa - Zwolle (600km) last week in 5,5 hours of continuous driving without speeding.

Is Stockholm - Hamburg really 2800 kilometers by the way? It doesn't seem that far, i saw signs in Malmö saying Stockholm was 630 kms. I don't think Hamburg is another 770 kilometers from Malmö.

According to viamichelin, it's 960 km via the ferry Rødby - Puttgarden. Via the bridges is perhaps somewhat longer, but i don't think 440 km longer. :D

Yeah, Stockholm - Hamburg is just 1,115 km without ferries. :D

And another 25 if you count the distance travelled on the ferries (Helsingborg-Helsingör, Rodby-Puttgarden)...

^^ No, by "without ferries" I meant the route where you don't even need ferries (Malmö-Copenhagen, and driving across the Danish mainland).

With ferries it will be much shorter, but it might take more time.

The km I gave was round trip, with a bit of flexibility (and I live slightly north of STO too ;)). The length of time was what a few sites told me, but I have no idea how long it'll take. I don't even know if I will go yet -- if I go I will leave at 1.30 am (9.30 now) so I have to decide soon!!!

No ferries for me (if I go). :D

(9.30 now)

Ah the classic Stockholm time is still 20 minutes ahead to the rest of Central Europe :cheers:

:lol:

1.30 am leaving? That means you'll drive in the dark until somewhere near Helsingborg.

With ferries it will be much shorter, but it might take more time.

I wonder if the difference in time will be that big. Hamburg - Copenhague via Kolding seems to be at least a 100 kms longer.

My clock was a bit off, I have fixed it now. :lol:

Yep, I've driven down to CPH a bunch of times so need to see that route again (but it'd be sooner anyway I think, the days are already quite long), and the main goal would be to get to spend a bit of time in Hamburg. Ferries are kind of boring I think and I'd like to see more of Denmark, so driving through it is a given for me. :)

Help me decide....anyone with tons of extra money they want to give to finance this? ;)

If you come from outside Helsingborg and take the bridge going to Odense, then you're always travelling on the E20. If you take the ferry, you leave the E20 outside Helsingborg and follow the E4, the ferry and then the E47/E55 until they coincide again in the southern suburbs of Copenhagen. This route is 50 kms shorter one way.

If you're going from Copenhagen to Hamburg by way of the E20 to Kolding and then E45 (BAB 7 in Germany) to the Maschener Kreuz just south of Hamburg you will be travelling some 500 km. If you take the E47 (BAB 1) including the Fehmarn Baelt ferry the distance is only 330 kms.

Sorry if I went too far with this one, it's just that I've travelled the itinerary Stockholm-Hamburg a few too many times. When my sisters were little they especially enjoyed taking the ferries when the bow of the ship opened. They called it Jaws. :)

The bridges cost you approximatly € 120 in total (4 times a bridge)

I've done it last year. Quite expensive, however they say the bridge or ferry route takes the same amount of time, and are both equally expensive.

I ordered BroBizz, which makes it cheaper already after the 2nd bridge you pass, so that part would be a tiny bit cheaper but still harsh (I didn't get it in time but can send in my receipts and they will pay me back). My main concern is the gasoline. I haven't figured out exactly how much it would be but... my car claims it gets 8.5 which is awfully high (way higher than in the brochures for the car!!) which makes it harsh.

11,7 km on 1 liter? That's not really fuel efficient. I went to Denmark lately (you probably noticed), and i drove 18,2 km per liter on petrol.

You have to know driving 120km/h on motorways is way more fuel efficient than driving 50km/h in Stockholm.

Well it is mostly my Swede who uses the car, to/from work, 15km one way, and most of that is on the motorway, so I don't get it. It used to me 8.9 though, and it's now gone down to 8.5...hopefully it'll keep going down. It's supposed to be quite a bit lower than that.

You can get a roundtrip ticket from Helsinborg including both of the ferries for €96 if you only stay away for the day, but since I guess these lads want to stay in Hamburg the price is about €180.

If they were to take both of the bridges the price would only be €112 with all discounts included, but there would be a 220 km deviation (per direction) which costs fuel and wears your car. Only the fuel would cost about €50.

My opinion is that the ferries are better since you get a break after driving quite a long while. But that's just me.

Well it is mostly my Swede who uses the car, to/from work, 15km one way, and most of that is on the motorway, so I don't get it. It used to me 8.9 though, and it's now gone down to 8.5...hopefully it'll keep going down. It's supposed to be quite a bit lower than that.

My car does about 8,5-9,0 l/100km here in Stockholm depending on the traffic and how I drive. When I fix the cruise control to 110 km/h (maximum speed limit on motorways) I have been able to make the trip Stockholm-Helsingborg on a 6,9 average, twice. And that's with a Peugeot 607.

Traffic jams and traffic lights kill your incentives for driving economically (and environmentally ofcourse).

Now I am considering maybe just CPH...a fun weekend yet much cheaper than going to HAM. :)

Now it's less than 700 km. :D

Haha, now that's cutting it short!

Traffic jams and traffic lights kill your incentives for driving economically (and environmentally ofcourse).

My parents drive a Prius, which has a small screen on the dashboard showing how many l/100km you use. Normally we drive between 4,8 and 5,5 l/100km. The best we've done so far is 4,2l/100km over 350 km. That was last year in Poland. When driving over a lot of quiet 2-laned roads, about 80 kmh.