Hey guys, seeing as this topic is just as interesting as any other proposal out there I thought some of you might be interested in a thread dedicated to it. I'm sure a thread like this must have been done before but I just couldn't find it on here. Re-cladding this beast will almost be like getting a brand new 978ft tower in our downtown core.

Building Description: First Canadian Place is a skyscraper in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. At 298 metres, or 978 feet (355 metres with antenna included), it is Canada's tallest skyscraper and the eleventh tallest building in North America. It is the third tallest free-standing structure in Canada, after CN Tower, also in Toronto, and the Inco Superstack in Sudbury, Ontario.

First Canadian Place is located in Toronto's financial district at the northwest corner of King and Bay streets, the centre of Canadian financial industry. It is home to the Toronto headquarters of the Bank of Montreal, the oldest Canadian bank (hence the 'first').

History: The architect was Bregman + Hamann Architects and the design consultant was Edward Durell Stone. The building is noted for its white stone finish, unusual in a city of glass, steel, and concrete surfaces. There are six hundred tons of Italian white marble on each floor. When built it was 8th tallest building in the world (currently 44th) to structural top and tallest building in the world outside of Chicago and New York. It was also the tallest building in the Commonwealth of Nations until the completion of the Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia in 1998. The Bank of Montreal "M-bar" logo at the top of the building was the highest sign in the world from 1975 until overtaken by the sign atop CITIC Plaza in 1997. First Canadian Place is somewhat similar in appearance to the Aon Center in Chicago, Illinois. Completed two years previous as the Standard Oil Building, and also designed by Durrell Stone, the Chicago tower is of the same floor plan, and clad in the same Italian Carrara marble, the only overtly visible difference being the vertical orientation of the windows, as opposed to the horizontal run of the windows on First Canadian Place. Foreshadowing what would take place with First Canadian Place in 2007, just one year after the completion of the Standard Oil Building, one of the marble slabs detached, fell, and penetrated the roof of a neighbouring building. From 1992 to 1994, the entire Aon Center was reclad in white granite.

The building was constructed in 1975 (originally named First Bank Building), on the site of the Old Toronto Star Building. It was the last of corners of King and Bay to be redeveloped and a major bidding war began over who would redevelop the site after the Star left. This battle was won by the then little known firm of Olympia and York. The election of reformist mayor David Crombie led to new rules banning skyscrapers. It took three years of lobbying before permission for the tower was granted.

The building is on the PATH system and has 29 elevators, and is one of a few buildings in the world using double-deck elevators. The roof contains a number of antennas used for radio and television broadcasting. The façade was altered for the first time in 2004, when the former blue bank logo was replaced with blue BMO lettering and the Rundel (new white-and-red logo). Once the new logo was in place with some new marble, it was obvious that the new clean marble didn't match the original older weathered marble. Workers had to try to "dirty" the new marble to try to make it match the old.

Falling Marble: During an intense storm in the evening of May 15, 2007, a piece of the white marble panel (measuring 1 metre by 1.2 metre and weighing 140kg (300 pounds) fell from the 60th storey of the tower's southern face onto the 3rd floor mezzanine roof below. Authorities closed surrounding streets as a precaution.

Taken by: Hyfen on flickr.com

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/52/157651608_409f326ecb_o.jpg

Feel free to offer any info, ideas, renderings, or thoughts on what should/will be done to our FCP.

^
no suggestions or good ideas by myself yet -but i just love this pic!
fcp looks so monstrous!

Make it a rainbow.

Or, I suppose they could just reclad it as it was. Just so long as its not made to look like BA.

I heard somewhere that they were going to reclad it with an opaque white glass curtain wall, copying the present look, and that it was supposed to be happening already. But I guess it's not on the books yet.

On top of recladding it they should cover up that horrible mess on top of the building with a spire or something... or maybe replace all those ugly antennas with one nice one.

Had another idea... If they want to save money they could just wrap the whole thing in plastic wrap! :lol: That'll keep the tiles from falling off.

Being the tallest skyscraper in the city, it should stand out as much as the CN tower after they do the re-cladding. They can apply some intricate glass designs, so it looks like a modern glass building, while refraining to look like a family member of BAC, sort of like the ifc2 in hong kong
http://vincentloy.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/2ifc01.jpg

or they can have a darker tone of glass like the world trade center in beijing.
http://www.meiguoxing.com/images/China_World_Trade_Center_Tower_3.jpg
Both of these examples r from china because china is using alot of glass at the moment.

I like the idea of opaque white glass. This would retain the colour scheme and differentiate it from BAC.

I would like something like the Times Tower, NYC
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/emerbot/IMG_1169.jpg?t=1247248825

But a brighter creamy white.

I like the idea of opaque white glass. This would retain the colour scheme and differentiate it from BAC.

I would like something like the Times Tower, NYC
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/emerbot/IMG_1169.jpg?t=1247248825

But a brighter creamy white.


That would look great! I wonder if they intend on replacing all that dark retro tinted glass with something a little bit nicer. I also agree a single antenna on top should be installed. The city should have some control over what property management companies can do with their buildings. Those antennas are just an eyesore.

Freedom Tower
http://www.thecityreview.com/nwwtc5.jpg

FCP yesterday:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/dawnd_01/WINTER%202008/Winter%20Part%20Two%202009/IMGP3104i.jpg

I emailed them this morning about info on the re-cladding project.

reply: Hi Andrew,
Unfortunately we can’t release any particulars at this point in time. I have forwarded your inquiry to the appropriate personnel.



Thanks,
Jonathan Olynick
Manager, Office Leasing

Brookfield Place
181 Bay Street
Toronto, ON M5J 2T3

On top of recladding it they should cover up that horrible mess on top of the building with a spire or something... or maybe replace all those ugly antennas with one nice one.

yes,
whatever new cladding be used, (glass metal stone,etc.)
it should incorporate a new 'cap' (single, huge antenna, parapet frame, huge spire, pyramid, etc.) (pyramid with a sharp antenna? -like the old B/A prop.).
this would really clean up the top and make the reclad worthwhile.
but mostly to make it officially a supertall!!!

also, it must be distinct -so it can't be looking like any of the other tall boys(blue or silver or aqua glazing).
perhaps 'mostly-white' would still be the best colour.

To get an idea of what it would look like if it were reclad, stand at the south east corner of the Bloor Viaduct. Bay Adelaide Centre lines up perfectly in front of FCP and they appear to be one tower with two different cladding options.

about time.

Wait a sec, I'm confused. Are they actually recladding FCP or are you just wondering what suggestions we'd have for it?

What about just cleaning the cladding that is already there? Would be impressive to see. I wonder how long it'd last before it needed to be clean again.

Would an acid bath work to clean the discoloured tiles, or perhaps sandblasting? It would be lovely to see the building sparkling white as it originally was. The opaque/etched white glass cover seems so far to be the most interesting idea.

^^ I think the tiles are deteriorating, not only dirty. That's my understanding of it.

I'll definitely go for the futuristic aluminum-screen look of the NY Times building. Heck, the proportions of both buildings are pratically the same.

the building should be left as the designers intended apart from a cleaning and/or replacing deteriorating cladding.

Except the architect chose a material that shouldn't be used to clad a building in a Canadian climate. I say update this building!

Just keep it simple stupid, take a vote. New white glass or continue cleaning the tiles. None of this blue, silver, alumimum garbage.

Except the architect chose a material that shouldn't be used to clad a building in a Canadian climate. I say update this building!

you can do that without drastically altering the look of the building. the aon center in chicago had to be entirely reclad in white granite because the original marble was defective.

You don't have to but why not if you can improve on something. A new material could make this look like a brand new tower. Perhaps I'll do a mock-up today while I should be working.

LOL.

As long as the new colour is not blue or green. Nothing is more depressing than if a city becomes all blue and green glass clad buildings... it becomes monotonous and bland. I like the idea of it being white.

Here is a quick render, I'll probably do a few variations just for the hell of it. If anybody has any ideas they'd like me to try just ask. This design would push it over the 1000ft mark and clean up the mess on the roof.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3526/3724919104_65f92c38c0_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2537/3724109637_4d4157f87f_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2092/3724110095_a45e29aa66_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2629/3724110013_88030f1a9c_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2472/3724109923_de9acbc9fd_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2495/3724918746_1d0af9bd7a_o.jpg

excellent work AndrewJM3D!
ny times-esque.
is it monochromatic by choice? -cuz this light colour could work well.

Well currently it only has 3 textures on it, none are final. The white is just a default ambient texture that Maya Mental Ray renders nicely. Off to the movies now, maybe start this up again later.

^^ Nice design, I'd definately go with something like that. What is the chances of it getting done?

Looks great, Andrew! I marvel at how people here are capable of doing these professional looking renderings!! Well done.
Personally, I would like to see the finished result as true to the International Design spirit as is possible, which would mean a flat roofline. The fins are au courant, and look good on new buildings.... but I would like FCP to remain true to its 70's design roots. We do have to remember throughout history one design style often gets "updated" to its detriment. Many beautiful Georgian buildings got "modernised" in the 1870's by gluing Second Empire roof-lines on top...

Not them I'm saying change the design just because I made a model, but having fins would still keep the design international in origin. The Tour CIBC in Montreal is international style and I kind of got my idea from that building. I agree somethings should be left alone, but architecturally in aesthetic design FCP was never a great example of international design. If it can be updated and made into something better I say go for it.

That being said, 3 architecture firms are in the running for the makeover and we should find out in a few weeks who won and what they intend on doing. I'm only doing this to kill time at work. :P

While its being recladded, something definitely needs to be done with that awful podium.

Great design though Andrew, I'd love to see something like that.

Andrew! I marvel at how people here are capable of doing these professional looking renderings!!.


Thanks, I work in 3D for a living though so for me this is second nature.

FCP may not be the most high profile example of International Design architecture in Toronto, but I'm curious why you say it was never a great example of the style.

TB, I say this because it didn't offer anything new. I believe this towers only claim to fame other then being Canada's tallest is that it was the first building in the world to use double-decker elevators. Also when located across the street we have one of the best examples of the International Style in the world this building style wise never had a chance.

Offhand I cannot think of any other International Style buildings of this size in Canada were clad entirely in Italian marble, though! ;) I know it is not in the same category as Mies' TD Centre, but I see it as a very good, clean 70's example of the style and worry that it is going to be "modernised" too much. On modern day SSC it is generally derided for being a "box", but we know being a "box" was a hallmark of International Style architecture.

I agree, as long as we keep it boxy with strong distinct horizontal lines I'm fine with that. I shudder when I read some suggestions such as incorporating a new crown on top. From the sounds of it over on U/T it will be clad in granite though the samples they had in the lobby of FCP last week looked darker then the current (clean) marble. The U/T member even said one of the samples looked a little pink :down:


The reason I added the fins was just to make it a super tall.

I love the sound of granite (which is what the stone should have been in the first place) but the pink aspect makes me shudder.... it should be brilliantly white.
thanks for all the info!

From U/T members:

yyzhyd
UT Member

I work at FCP and they had several large actual sized samples of potential recladding in the main lobby several weeks ago. Unfortunately there was no signage associated with the samples the area was just roped off.
They ranged from pinkish to grey but all were significantly darker than the white you see today. This is possibly to lessen the appearance of any future weathering affects.



whatever
Senior UT Member

Three companies put in bids for the contract a couple weeks ago, and I guess they're still in the process of picking one. There's another test wall up a bit north of the York U campus as well, for the white glass proposal



p5connex
Senior UT Member

As far as I know, this project is no longer on hold and is going ahead. I believe BH architects is undertaking the job (this may already be known here), although it is not posted on their website, a friend of mine mentioned this to me who is close to the company. I think all of the preliminary work is done, now it is a matter of logistics, material choice and when exactly to start the work. I can imagine that this will be a two year project, maybe a little less if they get they work well through the winter.

p5

Thanks again, Andrew, for all the updates.... I await news anxiously....

I like the renders. Very slick. A little too 'New Times Tower' for my taste. I agree that fins are a current trend that should be left off the tower. I also agree that FCP was never regarded as a very successful building architecturally so some design leeway is possible. Where the building really needs a transformation is at street level. The banking pavilion, lobby, and sidewalks are absolutely dreadful. So heavy-handed and kitsch.

What if they "CURVE" those fins inward? That would be very pretty IMO. It wouldn't look like a box!

Maybe they can take the building, and twist it like a piece of licorice!! Then it wouldn't be a box! :)

That would be something interesting but propbably impossible.

What if they "CURVE" those fins inward? That would be very pretty IMO. It wouldn't look like a box!

Wouldn't that be a blatant immitation of IFC 1 and 2 in Hong Kong??

Wouldn't that be a blatant immitation of IFC 1 and 2 in Hong Kong??

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3146/2771088154_28f0e873f8.jpg

Goldman Sachs building in Jersey City. :) (Even though Pelli designed both towers).

The cost of the re-cladding is very substantive and essentially for "aesthetic" reasons. Unless the commercial market is really humming, I do not see a re- clad happening in the near future. Has great possibilities though, essentially transforming the building.

I agree w/ TB about keeping the spirit of the international style. The heavy, cracking marble is likely not going to remain though (probably better off as kitchen counters for hundreds of thousands of condos!), but perhaps the new cladding can be an abstraction of the former material, but offering better texture and sheen. Nice render Andrew, it got me thinking, though it looks exactly like the NY times building, lol.


As long as the new colour is not blue or green. Nothing is more depressing than if a city becomes all blue and green glass clad buildings... it becomes monotonous and bland.

The only thing more depressing would be a city covered in grey spandrel and commie blocks. Thankfully no city in Canada has any of these qualities :lol:

The only thing more depressing would be a city covered in grey spandrel and commie blocks. Thankfully no city in Canada has any of these qualities :lol:


Absolutely, dleung! Thankfully none exist! :) Wouldn't it be depressing to live in a city that was a sea of blue and green glass, intermittently dotted with commie blocks?... ;) :lol:


KGB, where are you? We need your input and thoughts on the recladding of FCP!! I've slid into KGB withdrawal!! :(

The cost of the re-cladding is very substantive and essentially for "aesthetic" reasons. Unless the commercial market is really humming, I do not see a re- clad happening in the near future. Has great possibilities though, essentially transforming the building.

I think the existing cladding is starting to become a liability for them, so recladding is not just for aesthetic reasons. They can also use the construction period as an opportunity to make the building more 'green' which would cut down on energy consumption and maintenance costs.

This building is the showpiece of BMO, so I don't think money will be an over-riding factor. A bank simply must have a prestigious headquarters, even if (as in this case) it is just the de facto HQ and not the legal one.

Here is a quick render, I'll probably do a few variations just for the hell of it. If anybody has any ideas they'd like me to try just ask. This design would push it over the 1000ft mark and clean up the mess on the roof.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3526/3724919104_65f92c38c0_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2537/3724109637_4d4157f87f_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2092/3724110095_a45e29aa66_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2629/3724110013_88030f1a9c_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2472/3724109923_de9acbc9fd_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2495/3724918746_1d0af9bd7a_o.jpg

very nice, cool architecture.

I love the look of your design, but there could be concerns with window washing apparatus.

Ya I thought that as well, but then I realized Telus must have a way of dealing with Fins.

"necessity is the mother of invention " so let the window cleaning cos./ engineers invent something to deal with the problem/challenge.
this proposal, esp. the fins, looks sharp! -don't let a window cleaning issue tamper with it, i say.

Send people down on ropes like the good old days! :D

Or perhaps some sort of window washing robots.

^and robots can be programmed not to peep.:)

-TB, instead of rope, how about bungee-cord to speed things up! :lol:

How about a few thousand sponges, put them at the top and let them slide down like they do in the commercials!:tyty:

Get that ShamWow guy on a Bungee cord and don't let him up till it is all sparkling.




Or maybe not even then.

still ugly .. to simple recladding
d different just d roof part ..?

That is just a proposal by one of our members; it is not the design of the re-clad building.
I hope the building retains, as you call it, an "ugly" look that is true to its International Style roots.

and "ugly is the new beautiful" -that's what mum used to say. :)

It boggles the mind how many people think anything over 10 years old is ugly!

It boggles the mind how many people think anything over 10 years old is ugly!

Well they can smooch on my arse.

That is just a proposal by one of our members; it is not the design of the re-clad building.
I hope the building retains, as you call it, an "ugly" look that is true to its International Style roots.
International style roots or developer-driven kitsch?

Whether people like the building or not is a personal assessment (and certainly current popular sentiment is against it), but I cannot see this building being described as anything other than International Design. If it is not, then really there are only a tiny handful of International Style buildings in Canada, built by a tiny elite group of international architects. It was built during the 1970's civic requirements for the podium and plaza sizes to increase with the height of the building. This being the tallest building in the city, it was required to have a massive podium.

It boggles the mind how many people think anything over 10 years old is ugly!

It also boggles my mind that everything built before 1940 is considered stunning.

i'm not dismissing your sentiments but i'm not so boggled or confounded.

i find them 'stunning' in the following sense:
(very)generally, there were actual tradesmen, craftsmen, artisans, apprentices -and lots of them. they (usually) took great pride in their work. things weren't as mass produced the way they are today with products being shipped from china, india, italy, u.s. on a few weeks notice.
there wasn't a fraction of the products; mtls, the tools, equipment (hauling, measuring, lifting, excavating, fabricating,...), efficient steel sections, engineered concrete, adhesives, glazing, design/engineering software/equipment, computers, empirical data, the safety measures, etc, etc.

i understand comparing the buildings of today to those of yesteryear is like comparing a lexus with a model t or a westinghouse to an LG -today's buildings are designed & built with far more pragmatism and efficiency.

i'm not suggestting most 'old' buildings merit praise, (infact you'll find alot of poorly overbuilt, failing junk), but i view them through a different lens and i judge them differently. i imagine the planners, workers and site/work conditions of the time.

-masonry & stone work, in particular... -wrought or structural iron before the age of welding, window and door hardware... i can go on for ever. i'm just gonna stop here.

It seems a lot of boggling of the mind has gone on here! :D

When the dirty(?) looks of the cladding(uneven white colour) disappears because of weather or sunlight, the building looked robust and simply nice in the skyline despite of its boring design. When it's seen closely the cladding's colour is apparent and this makes the building ugly.(While the former WTC with the shiny vertical lines was beautiful.)

Considering it's currently the tallest (and fat) buliding in the city, I believe that re-cladding of it will certainly give positive effect to the city's skyline. I think if the heavy looking cladding + dirty impact(?) can be replaced with something like curtain wall. Not only the building itself will look different but the city will certainly look more new and fresh. For this reason I wished the Trump Int'l Hotel & Tower Toronto was going to be taller than BMO.

Also, I don't think the antenna on the top is the best they could make... It will be nice if this can also be redone so that it will look more organized and neat like John Hancock Center or the NYT building.

find them 'stunning' in the following sense:
(very)generally, there were actual tradesmen, craftsmen, artisans, apprentices -and lots of them. they (usually) took great pride in their work.

Bull. I've just owned too many old buildings. It boils down to a lack of understanding (Beaux-arts is by and large junk equivilant to the faux gothic going up in Missy) and current trends in design.

Anyways,


http://app.toronto.ca/ApplicationStatus/details.do?folderRsn=2469036

Application: Building Additions/Alterations Status: Permit Issued

Location: 100 KING ST W
TORONTO ON M5X 1K7

Ward 28: Toronto Centre-Rosedale

Application#: 09 152184 BLD 00 BA Issued Date: Aug 31, 2009

Project: Multiple Use/Non Residential Re-Roofing/Re-Cladding

Description: Proposal to for re-cladding removal of marble spandrel panels and re-clad with glas spandrel panels


glass it is.

Finally, this will look like a new building even if they only replace the marble with glass and nothing else.

????

????


? ? ? ? What is your Question?

Read what you wrote. It's not a proper sentence. I'm assuming you meant 'like', not 'lime', and 'with', not 'for'?

so glas spandrel panels for fcp. cool.

i wonder if it will be mostly opaque, white, tinted...
if they'll address all the messy antennae -with taller parapets/fins...
maybe toronto will inadvertently get it's first supertall.

don't even dream about taller parapets and supertall status ... ain't gonna happen

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2005/agendas/committees/te/te051115/it012.pdf under shadow

In particular, for those streets and parks subject to sunlight standards shown on Map 5, Council shall use its powers to regulate the height, siting and massing of new development to seek to achieve sunlight standards
based on the use of the park and its built form context on any park shown on Map 5.” Osgoode Gardens, Osgoode Mall and Nathan Phillips Square are shown on Map 5 as parks and publicly accessible open spaces subject to these sunlight standards.

Several of the nearby buildings, including First Canadian Place and the Sheraton Centre, exceed the current height regimes. They were built on an as-of-right basis because Zoning By-laws regulated only density in parts of the downtown core prior to City Council passing the Central Area By-law in 1976. Both these buildings were constructed prior to 1976, with the densities
below that permitted under the Zoning By-law at the time.

Read what you wrote. It's not a proper sentence. I'm assuming you meant 'like', not 'lime', and 'with', not 'for'?


Ya my bad, I was at work and multi-tasking. I hope my work wasn't as sloppy.

valantino, I know the city cited this bylaw to deny Sapphire, but I like to think they used it to stop an ugly Dubiesque building from shaming the skyline. After all they approved Trump at over 1000 feet.

good point, Andrew. altho, trump, even when over 1000' was realy just that corner spike thingy.

i think the city just needed something to slap stinson around with.

Trump's roof was always below the shadow barrier but, you do bring up a point. Antennae and Spire/poles are being ignored. Hmm, Maybe a spire in each corner and a taller antenna in the middle?

^you see, valantino?
there is always a chance, hope. -and now you're 'dreaming' of four, five spires, lol.

More a Melbourne inspired nightmare than a dream though

LOL! Funny how the word antennae often gets referred to as a "spire", isn't it? :D

LOL! Funny how the word antennae often gets referred to as a "spire", isn't it? :D

i was thinking antenne/a too -you've mentioned this before i believe, but i'm beginning to loose sense of what a darn spire is, lol.
i guess a true, proper spire would be what you would find atop an old, traditional church or cathedral, etc. -like the copper-green one nearby context's new 'spire' tower in the east end.

So there re-cladding FCP in glass??
What's going to happen with all that expensive marble?

^i can use a few pieces for mr.greenbean's minibar. :D



<<<

The marble panels from the facade of Thunder Bay's city hall was re-used as counter tops in the building. I imagine the marble panels from FCP will be treated the same way.

I doubt anyone will pay for FCP's marble countertops. It's too thin, stained, and brittle. It will likely be pulverized.

If people want some the best place to find it will be at the Leslie Street Spit.

^how convenient, that's where mr. greenbean docks! :lol:

Taken August 2009 by MatrixElement on flickr.com

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2548/3858341140_c356e9d82c_b.jpg

Anyone have a fair guess as to how quickly this could start?

There was a proposal to use the marble for sand at Sugar beach, as it would create white sand (the sugar) for sugar beach.

Ya my bad, I was at work and multi-tasking. I hope my work wasn't as sloppy.

Now you're being cheeky. I wouldn't use that one at work either. :|

I was walking into work this morning at FCP and noticed a slew of construction workers lined up at the Building Security office (behind Mephisto).
Not sure if it has anything to do with recladding... will try and get more info later today.

sweet, that would be great.

Nooo please, just leave this beautiful tower as it is :cry:

You're kidding right?

Actually, no ! I know it needs to be recladded, but I think Toronto is going to loose something.
It has been built like that, it was like that when I was in Toronto... I couldn't explain why, but sometimes, it's kind of sad to see things change.

^fcp is not exactly the roman colosseum. reclad already. i bet most of the american idol crowd won't even notice.

my wish is that they clean up the roof and antennae in the process.

^fcp is not exactly the roman colosseum..

ROFL!! :hilarious

ROFL!! :hilarious

Me not so ROFL...:) anyway, I just like it as it is...and think it should just be cleaned up. my opinion.

It IS a rather rare example of a skyscraper by Edward Durell Stone...considering what happened to his Two Columbus Circle in NYC I wonder if we should be so quick to chuck it aside.

I think they have demonstrated that the marble is deeply stained, and attempts to clean it have failed. Otherwise I am pretty sure the job would have been completed long ago. Marble is a surprisingly soft and porous stone, and on thin tiles it can be hard to get it white again. I will admit it surprises me how little respect that FCP gets from many locals, and there are those who will hardly consider it an example of International Design.

I agree that it's not his best work--General Motors in New York is better and also seems to have weathered far better. Still, Stone is interesting in providing a bridge from doctrinaire Miesian modernism to the more plastic and amorphous work of the 1960s in general--sort of a proto-postmodernism.

His greatest work is one of his earliest--the 1937 facade for the Museum of Modern Art, which was retained with its sensuous staircase when the complex was rebuilt recently.

Will be sorry to see the marble go.

I think it was rather gorgeous when it was new... so sparkling and such a breathtakingly tall building. I'm guessing that the
marble will be covered, but who knows?

Clean, it's a very nice looking building. But dirty, and it looks like crap. What I would like to see is a facade that pays homage to its original design, something similar to the New York Times Tower in New York.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/emerbot/IMG_1169.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=648382

IIRC, the effect is created by thousands of horizontal glass tubes a few inches away from the facade, like a brise soleil. It creates really neat visual affects from certain angles.

Weirdly, that is the sort of thing I suggested when this project was announced. A kind of lighting from behind frosted glass... but I had no idea how they could do it.

LEDs. It's amazing what you can do with them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/emerbot/IMG_1169.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=648382



I love it, but how do you clean it?

They probably have a way to reach behind them.

Why does everybody immediately come up with GLASS??? hello, there are more interesting stuff out there that can be used to re-clad FCP. What about some sort of a stone that not only perfectly fits in the whole picture and is a good match for Dominion Center, Scotia Place and the other skyscrapers around and is still some kind of a stone and something totally new or at least trendsetting and native to Canada itself?

I think of Fluorit or Prehnit? or Lepidolit?

something totally new or at least trendsetting and native to Canada itself?


How about cedar?

hahahahaha... Andrew, you are so funny, I already see you playing a role in the next blockbuster Hollywood made comedy along with Eddie Murphy.

NO CEDARS!

There are lots of stones that are native to Canada, right?

Clean, it's a very nice looking building. But dirty, and it looks like crap. What I would like to see is a facade that pays homage to its original design, something similar to the New York Times Tower in New York.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v326/emerbot/IMG_1169.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=648382

IIRC, the effect is created by thousands of horizontal glass tubes a few inches away from the facade, like a brise soleil. It creates really neat visual affects from certain angles.

That is exactly what I mean. They can easily replace the facade with another stone or material? something native to Canada's soil. (and to help the economy too, right?)

Canada has all of those stones; marble, granite, you name it. The stone itself is cheap, and the true cost of it is in the cutting. I think the lesson has been learned that using thin marble tiles is a mistake, and I doubt if they would go down that road again. Granite is tougher, but also costs waaaay more to cut. Personally, I think translucent, nearly opaque white glass covering the existing marble is the way to go.

Granite is tougher, but also costs waaaay more to cut. Personally, I think translucent, nearly opaque white glass covering the existing marble is the way to go.

EXACTLY... I also wanted to name Opaque yesterday in my previous comment, but forgot. Opaque will be a very good choice for sure.

And if certain sorts of opaque is used, it can turn the facade of the tower to lavender at times of the day, considering the season or time of the year, to lavender or some kind of jady green/blue or just beautiful arctic/icy blue white which is really beautiful.

Maybe I am wrong, but that said, I am not an architect.

I think translucent, nearly opaque white glass covering the existing marble is the way to go.

Not this again. The marble is buckling which is the reason for the re-skinning in the first place. How exactly is glass supposed to contain it from crashing onto the streets below? Please don't tell me you're one of those to cover over old plaster with drywall?


EXACTLY... I also wanted to name Opaque yesterday in my previous comment, but forgot. Opaque will be a very good choice for sure.


For sure. A transparent glass showing off the interior of FCP's perimeter walls (insulation, steel, etc.) would not be pretty.

Please don't tell me you're one of those to cover over old plaster with drywall?

.

Drywall? That is too extravagant. A lick of paint is more than enough.
Well, if there is a structural problem then of course they have to be removed. I have no idea what is happening to the stone, but if it is in danger of flinging itself to the sidewalk below, then obviously it has to go. I'm just saying that there is no point replacing it with new stone tiles.

Valentino is right too. Well, perhaps it will just be a good idea to find a " green" solution. What if they would use a material that observes solar energy and can even produce electricity? and yet has an elegant and kind of white/light grey or silver color?

When granite ages it gets a really grubby look that is kinda ugly. It has to be kept to a high polish or it just looks like shit.

Just for shits and giggles: Let's replace the facade with Tyndall stone!

-had to look up what "tyndall stone' was.

ok. it's a canadian stone. the 'cream' colour would be bland and the embedded fossils without 'deeper meaning' to the tower/place. but why for 'shits and giggles'?

-had to look up what "tyndall stone' was.

ok. it's a canadian stone. the 'cream' colour would be bland and the embedded fossils without 'deeper meaning' to the tower/place. but why for 'shits and giggles'?

There is lots of that in buildings around TO, but it is too dark a shade for such a large facade as FCP. I would also question the durability issue of limestone with regard to acids in city smog and repeated freeze/thaw cycles.

I think vid was pulling our legs and making a joke.

Shits and giggles because using Tyndall stone in the facade of that building would be absurd.

Shits and giggles because using Tyndall stone in the facade of that building would be absurd.

LOL, the treatment worse than the disease!

Better than that concrete where the pebbles inside are exposed. My god, the 1960s were horrifying.

Or they could go with the recent trend in my neighbourhood: Aluminum siding!

well, apparently tyndall stone has been used on many prominent canadian buildings...

now aluminum or vinyl siding (the type you can get at home depot or rona) would be hilarious -but very 'cost effective'. :lol:

and let's not forget the latest craze with renos and monster homes everywhere -painted beige stucco on styrofoam!

I think it'll look awesome if they go with an opaque white glass in place of the marble tiles. I can picture the cloudy or milky glass that should be used. Just think how easy it will be to keep clean; it will always be gleaming white unlike now. And it will maintain the tradional look of FCP that we've gotten used to, only better.

Tyndal stone is simply limestone from Tyndal, Manitoba. It is gorgeous and has been used on buildings across the country.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/dawnd_01/WINTER%202008/Winter%20Part%20Two%202009/Late%20Summer%20Early%20Fall%202009/IMGP0410.jpg

I think it'll look awesome if they go with an opaque white glass in place of the marble tiles. I can picture the cloudy or milky glass that should be used. Just think how easy it will be to keep clean; it will always be gleaming white unlike now. And it will maintain the tradional look of FCP that we've gotten used to, only better.

Agreed.

and let's not forget the latest craze with renos and monster homes everywhere -painted beige stucco on styrofoam!
Now you're describing homes here in Florida, LOL!

It isn't painted beige stucco on styrofoam, it is an "Exterior Insulation and Finishing System" or EIFS. It's also used on a lot of buildings here and in some situations it looks really good, but in most it is crap. (Especially when it is panels instead of an unbroken treatment.) Most suburban houses here have EIFS or a similar treatment on the facade, it isn't just a Florida thing.

The best thing about Tyndall stone is you can go fossil hunting. There is a warehouse down the street from me with a nautilus in it the size of a dinner plate.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2065/2517247085_d41789d04c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/vidioman/2517247085/)

thanx for the 2cent clarification vid.
but it's still 'stucco on styrofoam'.

Opaque is the best solution. Or else = Stainless Steel! (look at Beekman Place in New York)

What if they would use a material that observes solar energy and can even produce electricity? and yet has an elegant and kind of white/light grey or silver color?

There are new products being introduced almost everyday however, the ones I'm familiar with look like shit and are all black.

Let's replace the facade with Tyndall stone!


Oh God! Mind you sandstone is a classic stone but the mention of Tyndall dredges up too many images of the awful split faced engineered blocks used on 90% of the buildings in southern Alberta.

ewwww.........

A recladding eh? They should go ahead and add a proper spire to it while they're at it.

?

why?

To get rid of that mess on top TB.

Uhmmmm... I hope there is no "spire" glued on this International Style structure. No faux-twisty, eithr....Let's keep it real. :)

let's forget about the stones. There surely be some sort of a self cleaning plastiglass or something similar that can be used as to make the FCP look amazing, clean and brilliant white again.

I am not sure about adding up a " spire " a top of it, but a spike shape Antenna won't be such a bad idea after all.

There surely be some sort of a self cleaning plastiglass or something similar that can be used as to make the FCP look amazing, clean and brilliant white again.


It's called transparent aluminum and was invented in 1984. It's incredibly expensive though. The same effect can be accomplished with affordable spandrel glass and a window washing crew.

It's called transparent aluminum and was invented in 1984. It's incredibly expensive though. The same effect can be accomplished with affordable spandrel glass and a window washing crew.

Is there a building in Toronto with transparent aluminum? If not, which buildings use it?

Is there a building in Toronto with transparent aluminum? If not, which buildings use it?

No building anywhere uses it due to the fact it needs an energy force to maintain it's transparency.

Transparent aluminium is a state of aluminium achieved by bombarding a thin (50 nm) Al foil with soft X-ray laser radiation (wavelength 13.5 nm). The short laser pulse knocks out a core L-shell electron from every aluminium atom without breaking the crystalline structure of the metal making it transparent to X-rays of the same wavelength. This phenomenon is called saturable absorption. The thus produced transient state of aluminium is as dense as ordinary matter but can only exist for an extremely short period of time, as the energy required to maintain the high temperature which would be necessary to hold it in this state would be enormous. To create transparent aluminum, more power than is used by an entire city had to be focused into a dot with a diameter of less than one-twentieth of a thickness of a human hair, and then could only maintain the transparent state for 40 femtoseconds

You should cite your source ... I usually give my students shit for using wikipedia ... but that's the first place I looked this up.

My source was wiki :|Good thing my students can't use wiki to help them in my classes.

No building anywhere uses it due to the fact it needs an energy force to maintain it's transparency.


Tell that to the time traveling whales

Tell that to the time traveling whales

Computer! Computer! (in a scottish accent)

To create transparent aluminum, more power than is used by an entire city had to be focused into a dot with a diameter of less than one-twentieth of a thickness of a human hair, and then could only maintain the transparent state for 40 femtoseconds

I imagine this wouldn't meet LEED Gold standards. Damn environmental hippies.

what about GOLD? lol

what about GOLD? lol

The windows of RBC Bank are gold, and many state capitol domes are gold leaf here in the states, why not, LOL.

^tinted with gold 'spice'.

?

why?

Well for one thing it would balance out the skyline by complimenting the height of the CN tower with a pointed top, was referring to more of an Empire State Building-type spire.

Well for one thing it would balance out the skyline by complimenting the height of the CN tower with a pointed top, was referring to more of an Empire State Building-type spire.

I'm in the middle on this one. A spire like the Empire State building would look awesome in Toronto. However I don't think it would suit FCP, to me it's kind of like cheating. Personally I think FCP looks great just as it is.

Perhaps they should put that spire on top of the Trump tower..seeing as how trump is from New York city anyway lol

and what about the sort of Antenna's like those atop of Sears Tower or John Hancock, not in gold, but just white, the usual color. it looks more sophisticated to me.

besides, Trump Tower is going to have a little spike that will add up to the skyline (oh gosh, I can't wait to see Toronto sometime next year if Trump and the current boom is over and enjoy its new look!) .... and hope all of us will live that long and many more years to come to see the city turn into something much more beautiful.

Re-cladding has begun, or so it looks.

I just went by tonight Sunday September 20th and on the west side two vertical rows of marble have been removed on the west side on about 15 of the lower floors. Hopefully somebody with a camera who will be down there Monday can snap a few pictures for us.

:)

Dang. I was in that area today and did not see this happening.

I'm not really sure why they're doing it in vertical stripes, assuming that's what's happening unless they're going to install two different test sections. The missing marble strips are about 8 panels apart and run like I mentioned from the podium up until around floor 15.

What will happen to the marble? I'm sure it's quite valuable.

Rumor has it that it will be crushed and used for sand at Sugar Beach next to the new Corus building.

Taken by drum118 on u/t. Also a news conference will be held Tuesday to announce this. These two floors look like the bottom 15 I mentioned.


So her face lift begins.
http://davidfisher.biz/photo/2009/sept/2009_09_20/IMG_16687a.JPG

What will happen to the marble? I'm sure it's quite valuable.

In that condition and at that thickness? Valuable for what, other than being converted to sand?

Gravestones.



;)

Half inch thick grave stones? If they can't be countertops, they can't really be anything else, can they? They're basically stone wallpaper.

It's amazing how deceptive those stones are. There is a building downtown that has had its Tyndall stones temporarily removed (the front of the building was tipping into the street) and they're barely a half inch thick, but before you might have thought they were large blocks.

In that condition and at that thickness? Valuable for what, other than being converted to sand?

I'm sure some ingenious people could come up with a myriad uses for it.

And again ...the marble is being removed at great expense because it's rotten. Of course, that doesn't mean there are dozens of junk collectors that would take it if left at the curb.

Half inch thick grave stones? .

For skinny people, of course!

I was just joking with the gravestones. They will probably be crushed for white
sand.

So do we know yet what material will be used for the re-cladding?

^the last i/we heard was on page 4 (Valintino post) of this thread, some type of glass spandrel stuff.

I like the building the way it is, but it would be better that it gets some height to make it a supertall.

I like the building the way it is, but it would be better that it gets some height to make it a supertall.

I agree, there must be some way they can add 3 meters. It does need a re clad however.

Why don't we be like every other country and city in the world and include the height of existing "SPIRES"? (antennae, to the uninitiated). We seem to be the only ones in the world now who do not.

Canadians keep it original which isn't such a bad idea either. But two antenna's sounds fun to me too

The official authorities on building heights (SSP, Emporis and CTBUH) count spires, but the roof is given priority because that's where the building ends. Anyone can stick an antenna on top of a building but it takes engineering talent to make the building's roof reach that high.

If you're going to count antennas, then there is a house in Academy Heights that's well over 50 meters. :rolleyes:

And it's only a few meters away from the "supertall" status, which is defined as being either 300m (984ft) or 1000ft (305m). The difference between the two definitions is greater than the difference between the roof of FCP and 300m.

Why don't we be like every other country and city in the world and include the height of existing "SPIRES"? (antennae, to the uninitiated).

An antenna is not the same as an architectural spire. It is not part of the building's design and is therefore subject to changes as the market demands. It's of course nitpicky but, building heights are hard enough to confirm. FCP's height has yet to be confirmed. Antenna heights just change too frequently.

Canadians keep it original which isn't such a bad idea either. But two antenna's sounds fun to me too

The antennae have been there for 30 years already.

check this out!
this should answer some questions.
http://www.redefiningfirst.com/

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7524/bmoo.jpg

Beautiful! That is EXACTLY what I was hoping for! It maintains the original integrity of the design of the tower. No bells, no whistles, no corkscrews and no ersatz spires glued on to top it over the arbitrary 1000 foot level. Thanks for posting!

I also like the bronze paneling in between the white glass facades. This will indeed be the big brother of Bay Adelaide.

Why don't we be like every other country and city in the world and include the height of existing "SPIRES"? (antennae, to the uninitiated). We seem to be the only ones in the world now who do not.

For some reason, Australia doesn't count its spires, whether existing or decorative.

I've been searching for a long time to find a photo of the building that FCP replaced and finally found one. I wish they had kept the old Bank of Montreal. I believe this old building was originally about 20 floors high? It didn't need to come down at all! They could have kept the whole building and still built FCP. We lost this great bank tower for the FCP 2 storey podium. What a waste! Check this out:

http://www.redefiningfirst.com/img/overview/history/1975-corner.jpg

Talking antennae, I like very much the kind of antennae on top of John Hancock in Chicago (I wonder if architects or who ever build and place them uses certain names or terms for each sort of antennae and am sure such exists but I dont know it, so pls help if you know the answer), that said, what about the same type of antennae on top of Scotia Place? , in white and please those who want to tease me again but coming up with some silly comments on my thought, be serious and think of it.

Can somebody perhaps fotoshop a picture of SP (& FCP or TO's skyline) with future imaginary antennae? tnx in advance. :)

For some reason, Australia doesn't count its spires, whether existing or decorative.

Really? That's news to me.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7524/bmoo.jpg

Wow, they completed that quickly! :tongue2:

Where did this rendering come from? It's exactly what I was hoping for. Now we'll have a gleaming white tower in the skyline again.

EDIT - Ah, nevermind; I see that it's a screenshot from the animation at http://www.redefiningfirst.com/

I am so confused now!!!!:nuts:
Thank God I ll be there to see it for myself soon.:)

http://www.redefiningfirst.com/Downloads/Images/Fcp-Building-Rendering.jpg

http://www.redefiningfirst.com


**gasp**

love how the corners are dark/black.
i do hope they 'adjust' the antennae. they weren't part of the original design (were they?) so i see no reason why they shouldn't be addressed/perfected.

love how the corners are dark/black.
i do hope they 'adjust' the antennae. they weren't part of the original design (were they?) so i see no reason why they shouldn't be addressed/perfected.

the antennae are most likely customer owned equippment, in which case they will have no right to touch it.

The antennae have been there for 30 years already.

no, they haven't.

the antennae are most likely customer owned equippment, in which case they will have no right to touch it.

The customer is renting the space on top of the building, they could probably work out an agreement to re-design the antenna structure on the building.

Timeline

http://www.redefiningfirst.com/img/overview/timeline/graph.png

no, they haven't.

When did they go up? I seem to remember antennas there as long as I have lived in TO, but could be wrong on that.

If it looks anything like that rendering, it's gonna be way wicked.

If it looks anything like that rendering, it's gonna be way wicked.

Yes, it is official and it will look like that in today's Star. completion date is 2011. It will be white Canadian glass. I believe it will look even better than the rendering as the glass will have more reflection and gleams more.:)

:)it will be much whiter:)

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/700822

Bay St. landmark to lose its marble



Sep 25, 2009 04:30 AM
Jennifer Yang
STAFF REPORTER

When First Canadian Place was built in 1975, owner Paul Reichmann boasted the tower would be clad with "16 miles of marble."

"It was a mark of distinction for the building," recalls banker Richard O'Hagan, who worked at First Canadian Place shortly after it opened for business.

So the Reichmanns imported 45,000 slabs of Carrara marble from Italy and today, First Canadian Place is said to have more Carrara marble than any other building in the world.

But on Wednesday, the building's owners announced that First Canadian Place is losing its claim to marble fame. By the end of 2011, Brookfield Properties will replace all the Italian marble with white made-in-Canada glass.

"It was clear that the marble curtain had deteriorated," said Tom Farley, president and CEO of Brookfield's Canadian commercial properties.

Today, its rows of marble tiles resemble something more akin to a smoker's grin: many slabs are blackened and a yellow stain is spreading along some of the seams.

"As you can tell just by looking at it, there are some visual issues," said Stefan Dembinski, Brookfield's senior vice-president of asset management in Eastern Canada.

But the problem is more than cosmetic. A notoriously soft material, the marble has been weakened by harsh Toronto winters and in 2007, a marble slab came unstuck and plummeted 50 storeys. About 10 per cent of the slabs have been replaced over the years.

Carrara marble has also been a problem for other cities. In the early '90s, Chicago's Aon Center – designed by the same architect as First Canadian Place, Edward Durell Stone – also replaced its Carrara marble, to the tune of $80 million (U.S.).

In Toronto, First Canadian Place's facelift will cost at least $100 million (Cdn.), Farley says. About 65 per cent will be spent on replacing the façade, with the rest for other renovations.

But First Canadian Place will remain a white building, thanks to the "fritted" (ceramic-enamel coated) glass panels, which have small white particles baked in.

Some parts of the building will also be keeping their marble, including the lobby and the first two storeys of the exterior.

As for the rest of the 45,000 slabs? All will be recycled, says Dembinski, either crushed up into rooftop ballast or donated to art projects.

$100,000,000 upgrade. Wow.

Very nicely done so as to not change the character of the original.

Aside from the cosmetics, the liability of falling marble panels probably forced Brookfield to see the light.

This will make a huge impact on the look of the entire downtown, from "old and tired" to the "young and energetic", gleaming metropolis that is TO.

When did they go up? I seem to remember antennas there as long as I have lived in TO, but could be wrong on that.

I don't know when FCP got the first antenna but it has been replaced a long time ago. I can't exactly remember when the current tallest was put up but, it was around the same time the Sears/Willis antennae were replaced. Three years ago?

Thanks for the info. I guess I meant there have always been antennaes, per se, on top of the building, and that is nothing new. To me one antennae looks pretty much the same as another! ;)

To me one antennae looks pretty much the same as another!

Same here. I find the 0.000001% of the population facinated by antennae just weird and probably not worth the time and effort to get in bed. "What do think of antennas?" is actually one of my favourite icebreakers.

Score much? :D

Same here. I find the 0.000001% of the population facinated by antennae just weird and probably not worth the time and effort to get in bed. "What do think of antennas?" is actually one of my favourite icebreakers.


please excuse our interest in antennae. -or as you prefer, 'antennas'.

details, details... :)

I came over here ostensibly to discuss antennae, but talk about poisoning the well. Forget it!

*leaves in a huff*

Seriously though, another poster mentioned the 'fins' that may serve to extend the height a bit. Or maybe I'm just seeing what I want to see ?

There are small fins, it only needs to be 2 metres taller to break the supertall barrier.

^I hate to burst your bubble but those so called fins need to be much taller than two metres even if you believe the 298m Emporis height. The 298m Emporis height is from the top of the mechanical penthouse. The main roof or the site of the curtain wall caps is 290m according to Emporis or 287m according to the zoning bylaw.

uggh. No fins please. No fake tower top, no spire, no nuttin'. Let's leave the building in peace and respect its original design sense without gluing on a 2006-2007 trend.

Too late as, technically, the building has always had fins. There's a parapet wall hiding the window washing equipment. Perhaps this is being removed in the corners as part of the reno.

Too late as, technically, the building has always had fins. There's a parapet wall hiding the window washing equipment. Perhaps this is being removed in the corners as part of the reno.

No, I mean Fins (not to be confused with Finns like Isaidso!!:D), with a capital "F":

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/dawnd_01/WINTER%202008/Winter%20Part%20Two%202009/Late%20Summer%20Early%20Fall%202009/1BloorEastfinaltop.jpg

I know what you meant although I don't quite get the pic of the Ronko Electric Razor

Theyz fins, but fins in the centre instead of the currently popular fins on the perimeter. I'm kind of over fins in general.

I can't say we have enough fins to be tired of them already here in Toronto.

Telus, RBC, Murano, etc...

Telus, RBC, Murano, etc...

Telus, B/A, soon to also have 4 Seasons and Shangri-la. I count 4, but Murano? They have no fins, And RBC isn't really a fin. 4 out of hundreds of buildings isn't really an overkill yet, a few more wouldn't be over doing it.

Agreed, If we really have to reclad BMO's exterior we might as well add fins for some need height.

I like what they have in store for us, if we get a few new finned proposals for towers I'm fine with that.

snapped a pic of fcp while downtown today.
appears they're making preperation for the scaffolding by removing vertical strips of tile.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2519/3961316936_df5649a44d_b.jpg

Telus, B/A, soon to also have 4 Seasons and Shangri-la. I count 4, but Murano? They have no fins, And RBC isn't really a fin. 4 out of hundreds of buildings isn't really an overkill yet, a few more wouldn't be over doing it.

Murano is one of the buildings that has a "lantern", which is just fins connected on all sides. Fins replaced the "hats" of circa 2005. I get over trends fast, I guess. Also I am tired of the offset balcony trend which was very hip just a couple of short years ago. In any case I think it would look ghastly and dated very quickly on FCP.

Murano is one of the buildings that has a "lantern", which is just fins connected on all sides.


You're really stretching it there. So acording to you City Place is full of fins?

There's definitely more room in the city for fins. I'm thinking City Hall (both new and old)


Can we keep some semblance of the orignal design? It's bad enough that the marble has to be replaced with glass.

It's bad enough that the marble has to be replaced with glass.

Why is that bad? Not like you can tell it's marble unless you're up close and the last time I checked not many of us were flying around in our own personal jet packs. Not to mention, the glass is going to look better than the current state the marble is in anyway.

Do you ever get up on the right side of the bed or is that side always up against the wall?

Perhaps I should have emphasized "has to " a little more. You're right though. It's more sad than bad that carrera marble just doesn't work as a building facade in Toronto.

or Chicago. T'ain't the first time it has had to be replaced in a cold climate.

There's definitely more room in the city for fins. I'm thinking City Hall (both new and old)

Couldn't agree more, every piece of respectable architecture can always be improved by the addition of the timeless fin.




http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2529/oldcityhallrefit.jpg
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/4041356.jpg



There, I think that's much better. Ideally they would tear down the entire structure and erect one giant fin to take it's place, but my design is a functional compromise given that the building itself sees regular use.

Also, while you cannot tell from the above photo, the new bell tower I have added actually extends more than 260 meters above the top of the frame, so now Old City Hall would actually become a supertall.


On a more serious note, the re-clad looks like it's going to turn out fantastic. It'll be interesting to see how the new materials end up looking in actuality, I suppose we'll know fairly soon given the replacing of the marble is to start at the very beginning of '10.

Anyway, I'd imagine that we're going to see some pretty spectacular photos of FCP once that sun hits along all that bright white class.

The airplane wing looks like a ROM nock-off. Did you actually put a fin on the seagull, or is that an illusion?

No, I actually bothered to put a fin on the seagull, it's the result of being an insomniac while also being fascinated with the nature of civic growth.

I don't really like marble or granite as a building material. Unless it is kept to a nice polished finish, it looks really grubby and ugly.

So what's the deal here, are we getting extra height or not?

Looks like a couple of rows of tiles have been taken off.

No, I actually bothered to put a fin on the seagull, it's the result of being an insomniac while also being fascinated with the nature of civic growth.

Just call it the paper boy sindrown. I see those guys picking up loads of papers every night around 2am and then a paper hits my door 4 to 5 every morning.

Just call it the paper boy sindrown.
Is that your attempt to use the word "syndrome"? Wow.

Yup, I was never a good speller. 5:36 in the morning doesn't help with the thinking much. Bet you I can Whoop you in a fight :). If only those demon will let me start sleeping during the nights.

Now that this has started...someone needs to come up with something for the CN tower.

Bet you I can Whoop you in a fight :)

cool. how can this 'mma' contest be arranged? :bash:


^lol, i think tall glamorous cn tower would look sexy in a glittering sequins dress! -with a split to show a little (concrete) leg!

So what's the deal here, are we getting extra height or not?
.

not



I'm loving the timeless fins! :hilarious

Haha, it's about time a thread on here devolved to "I might not be able to win an argument with you but I could probably beat you up!!!"

Remember there used to be someone on here who would threaten to beat us up? It was hysterical.... this being the internet and all.

cool. how can this 'mma' contest be arranged? :bash:


^lol, i think tall glamorous cn tower would look sexy in a glittering sequins dress! -with a split to show a little (concrete) leg!

Just set a time, date, location(ring or octagon) and get a video camera and it's official. Winner gets bragging rights or you can wager if you have a commision to hold the prize money.


See WTF I went to bed at 10:30pm, but I wakeup 1:30 in the night.

I'll bring the oil!

^and i'll dust off my lucky Nacho Libre outfit for whoever wants to borrow it!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/35/Nachopost.jpg/200px-Nachopost.jpg
i have the mask too!

aren't you all going kind of off-topic??

^ Charlotte, sometimes ya gotta break a few eggs to make a cake.

^ Charlotte, sometimes ya gotta break a few eggs to make a cake.

Sammo, it is Ok. I don't mind that at all and you are right. :)

the fins and furs idea was/is kind of tacky, that is all.

methinks the idea of the fins was a "tongue-in-cheek" suggestion! ;)

I'll bring the oil!

No dude, this ain't a masturbating contest:ohno:.

I was referring to oil wrestling.

not a pretty thought.

No dude, this ain't a masturbating contest:ohno:.

who masturbates with oil? lol

Yeah, water based lubes are way better.

^^don't pay attention to me, I 've covered my ears and am blind-folded! :lol:

from 'fins' to 'fighting' to 'fistf***g'.

-what, 3, 4 degrees of seperation to the other latent area of interest here?

ok,
has cladding our rigid fcp with a huge colourful, ribbed rubber been explored yet? :lol: