Trafford Council fights back and unveils plans for a new Town Hall and site for LCCC.

Longjohns, your friends at the Civic Society are not happy.

Town hall moves to help cricket club.

This.

http://www.lanwan.fi/uutiset/alcatel/2004/trafford_townhall_p.jpg

to be replaced by this.

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ContentResources/20.$plit/C_17_Articles_212862_BodyWeb_Detail_1_Image.jpg

PROPOSAL: New town hall.

TRAFFORD town hall may be bulldozed to make way for a new ground for Lancashire Cricket Club.

The secret plans came to light after inquiries by the M.E.N's sister paper, the weekly Metro, prompting Trafford council to hurriedly go public.

Lancashire County Cricket Club bosses have been considering selling Old Trafford because of fears the ground, built in 1864, is not up to modern standards and would not be able to host international matches.

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But under the plans Trafford council would move from the Talbot Road town hall, opposite Old Trafford, into new headquarters near the Trafford Centre.

For the cricket club to make use of the town hall land the area's road layout would need to change.

Council bosses hope by making their home available to LCCC they will persuade them to stay in the borough.

Global

Officials at the cricket club have been considering moving from Trafford. A huge site near Wigan which would house the ground, a hotel and offices has been earmarked, as well as an area at Sportcity in East Manchester.

It is understood Trafford council bosses have been in talks with LCCC for months.

They have also met Trafford Centre bosses Peel Holdings, which owns the derelict land on which the new council headquarters would be built.

Both refused to provide any further details, although council officials say the building's cost would not come from their own money.

Trafford council leader Susan Williams said: "Old Trafford is a global brand for cricket and the club brings many benefits to the borough, both in terms of that international recognition, jobs and investment in the local economy. Our role has been to foster a partnership which has been developing a masterplan for the cricket club area to provide a state-of-the-art Test match venue for the 21st century. Within that partnership it was obvious the council itself could contribute by vacating the town hall site. That's what we're now considering.

Options

"Our options are limited with our existing building. Access is poor, particularly for disabled people, and energy costs are mounting. It was built to suit the old-fashioned council of the 1930s and it's now showing its age. There are major health and safety issues with the annexe."

LCCC chief executive Jim Cumbes said: "As we are still involved in talks with Trafford council we cannot usefully add anything to their statement at this moment."

Coun Williams said a move would save taxpayers at least £3m in urgent repairs to the 1933 town hall, including replacing the heating system.

The new building, off Trafford Boulevard, would be "energy efficient and environmentally friendly".

It would be designed by award-winning architect Simon Bee and house about 1,000 staff. Though the present building is more than 70 years old, it is not protected by listed status.

Trafford council will be presented with the proposals in principle on May 24 and, if given the go-ahead, the new centre could be completed by the end of 2008. The council said it would be the first new town hall to be built in Britain for decades.

The plans were due to be unveiled next week. Opposition politicians said they were furious about being left in the dark. Coun David Acton, leader of the council's Labour opposition, said: "I'm absolutely disgusted this decision has been made straight after the local elections.

'Disgraceful'

"I represent the Gorse Hill ward, where the town hall is based, and I hadn't been consulted on this, which I think is absolutely disgraceful."

Liberal Democrat group leader Ray Bowker said: "It's an unbelievable suggestion. The town hall building is steeped in tradition."

Manchester Civic Society chairman Richard Harvey said: "We'd be concerned about what would happen to the building. We do object when historic buildings are knocked down and replaced with something cheap and tacky."

SHOULD the old Town Hall be vacated for LCCC? Have your say.

surely an alternative site could be found? that hall seems like a very grand old building and would be a bad thing to lose it... surely there must be some former industrial land that could be reclaimed for lancs cricket club

That old Town hall isnt the best old building around, I've walked around it before and its not the best state. It would be bad to lose it. I dont really understand most of this.

Questions need answering like where the current road go? Thats an important busy road and it cant just be closed off. Why is there a lake with boats? There isnt canal very near by. What will happen to the old Ground?

Why don't they build the cricket ground on the plot for the new town hall (unless it's too small of course)

There was a chap on the Legends on Century 105.4 from Lancashire CCC who said that Wigan is the hands down favourite for the new ground. No where in Manchester could offer the same facilities (such as two outdoor pitches and indoor winter training)

IMHO it's all wrong that Manchester City Council doesn't cover the Trafford area anyhow.

IMHO it's all wrong that Manchester City Council doesn't cover the Trafford area anyhow.

It's a given, discussed many times that it is completely inexcusable that Manchester City authority only covers 1/3 of the Manchester posttown area. It's the most illogical arrangement in the UK (maybe Europe). Where is the sense that an inner city district of Manchester like Old Trafford (1 mile from city centre) doesn't come under the city council??? It's a farce and needs sorting.

Balls should the town hall go. Build that newy elsewhere and keep the TH as museum or something. Isnt there a carpark across the road from LCCC?

Yes i would be worried if the 'old' town hall were to be demolished. There are better examples of this type of thing but never the less it seems a bit desperate and extreme. Quite like that new town hall design though.
Typical Trafford philistines IMO - so desperate to keep them they will give up a decent building.
Sportcity is the best place for the new LCC IMO.

It's a given, discussed many times that it is completely inexcusable that Manchester City authority only covers 1/3 of the Manchester posttown area. It's the most illogical arrangement in the UK (maybe Europe). Where is the sense that an inner city district of Manchester like Old Trafford (1 mile from city centre) doesn't come under the city council??? It's a farce and needs sorting.

Did it ever though ? if Old Trafford once was in Manchester then you may have a point, but if it was never in Manchester then why should Manchester have it ? Jersey City is half a mile from Manhatten and is in a completely different state.

Incidentally if Manchester had annexed Stretford in the past, the Town Hall would have never been built.

It's not a great building but then it's not a great council and I wouldn't be too sad to see either of them go. The Sale and Altrincham Messanger says that they new town hall will be down by the Quays rather than the TC. If it's actually near the IWMN, Lowry etc I'd be quite pleased, as it would add a bit of life round there (although it would be a bit of a bugger for those that use the tram to get to the town hall), however putting it in some business park is typical Trafford Tory brain death thinking.

It's not a great building but then it's not a great council and I wouldn't be too sad to see either of them go. The Sale and Altrincham Messanger says that they new town hall will be down by the Quays rather than the TC. If it's actually near the IWMN, Lowry etc I'd be quite pleased, as it would add a bit of life round there (although it would be a bit of a bugger for those that use the tram to get to the town hall), however putting it in some business park is typical Trafford Tory brain death thinking.

Trafford Quays is just next to the Trafford Centre so quite a long way West from The Quays or town.

This has got to be a wind up. LCC are going to move to Wigan anyway.

That old town hall should definitely not be demolished. Great plan, but why fucking there? Its not like there isnt any space in Trafford.

Sportcity is the best place for the new LCC IMO.

Totally agree, I can't see why this isn't the strong option. When the Metro extension gets built, it means it will have ultra great transport links as well.

One of the best things about old trafford at the moment is it's Metro Link, to go to Wigan will be such a pain to get to by public transport (coming from other parts of the UK).

It should be in Lancashire.

[QUOTE=Isaac Newell] Jersey City is half a mile from Manhatten and is in a completely different state.

[QUOTE]

That half a mile is called the Hudson River - a fairly big physical barrier. Old Trafford forms a seamless inner suburb of Manchester. It has Manchester posttown address, postcode, telephone number (Jersey City has a different address and telephone number). People in Jersey don't call themselves New Yorkers, but I've never met anyone from Stretford or Old Trafford that didn't call themselves Mancunians. Instead of you poor analogy here's a better one. Manchester not including Old Trafford is like Liverpool not including Toxteth, Birmingham including Aston, Leeds including Headingley or Edinburgh including Leith. The reason that Manchester didn't expand to include all the other 2/3 of Manchester suburbs it because they created Gtr Manchester county in 1974 and the new mickey mouse boroughs of Trafford, tameside and new Salford. So they should either reinstate a proper Manchester city region where some dummkopf can't pretend that Old Trafford or Salford are somehow not in Manchester, or just go back to the 1945 plans and incorporate the Manchester suburbs (not satellite towns) into the one city of 1.2 million. Nothing could be more logical.

What the hell is wrong with the old building? I mean ..... im not sayin nout

There was a chap on the Legends on Century 105.4 from Lancashire CCC who said that Wigan is the hands down favourite for the new ground. No where in Manchester could offer the same facilities (such as two outdoor pitches and indoor winter training)

and theres no way in the world that wigan could attract as many spectators. It will be simply too far for many people to bother.

Old Trafford was within the city of Manchester until 1974.

Prior to 74, Manchester (and Liverpool) were still within the county of Lancashire, (but not administered by it).

If the LCCC wishes to remain true to it's 'county' affiliation, then moving to Wigan will not accomplish that goal.

It will have to move to a town in (what remains) of Lancashire.

Or change it's name.

End of.

PS, how can you tell I'm not a cricket fan and don't give a rats arse? ;)

PSS, it's all London's fault. :)

It should move to Preston. We are perfect. Geographic centre of UK, West Coast Mainline, M6(N&S)/65/55/61, lots of new hotels in the pipeline, UK's biggest Matalan store. Like I said, we're perfect.

[QUOTE=Isaac Newell] Jersey City is half a mile from Manhatten and is in a completely different state.

[QUOTE]

That half a mile is called the Hudson River - a fairly big physical barrier. Old Trafford forms a seamless inner suburb of Manchester. It has Manchester posttown address, postcode, telephone number (Jersey City has a different address and telephone number). People in Jersey don't call themselves New Yorkers, but I've never met anyone from Stretford or Old Trafford that didn't call themselves Mancunians. Instead of you poor analogy here's a better one. Manchester not including Old Trafford is like Liverpool not including Toxteth, Birmingham including Aston, Leeds including Headingley or Edinburgh including Leith. The reason that Manchester didn't expand to include all the other 2/3 of Manchester suburbs it because they created Gtr Manchester county in 1974 and the new mickey mouse boroughs of Trafford, tameside and new Salford. So they should either reinstate a proper Manchester city region where some dummkopf can't pretend that Old Trafford or Salford are somehow not in Manchester, or just go back to the 1945 plans and incorporate the Manchester suburbs (not satellite towns) into the one city of 1.2 million. Nothing could be more logical.

You make a fair point but I suspect your only reason is to knock up the population of Manchester. Whatever Manchester does to knock up it's population, Birmingham could do the same. Democracy should mean more and smaller councils, forcing Trafford into Manchester would mean suburban councillors on the city council, more Liberals, more Tories, more suburban emphasis and possibly less city centre development.

Sir Miles you're going to have to link me to something that shows Old Trafford used to be in C.O.M. I've looked myself and I can't see anything that says yea or nea.

I would still call someone who lives north of the Mersey a Mancunian as this is clearly suburban Manchester and not a satellite town. However does it really matter that it has it's own council.

Anyway back to the point. Is Sportcity big enough for a cricket ground, especially the sort Lancashire seem to want, something with lots of corparate entertainment facilities, possibly an academy, car parking for members, indoor nets etc. and room to reconfigure.

to go to Wigan will be such a pain to get to by public transport (coming from other parts of the UK).

Just catch a train (Wigan is on West Coast Mainline). Buses will no doubt convey you to the new ground. Even if you got to Manchester, Wigan is only another 20-30 minutes on a district service.

Trafford Town Hall should remain. There's enough 60's/70's shite round that area to warrant keeping an old building like that. A new Trafford Town Hall on the waterfront would be belting.

East Manchester would be my preference for the new cricket ground, increasing Sport City's profile.

I wonder which town in what's left of Lancashire could entice the club to move? Burnley, Colne, Nelson, Preston, Skem??

Isaac, I can't find anything conclusive either on whether OT was in CoM.
All I can find is that it was part of Stretford UDC at one time.
I have always gone off old Man Utd programs which stated the address as 'Old Trafford, Manchester 16'. Now as far as I know, anything with a Manchester postal disrict number (prior to 1974) was considered to be 'in Manchester'. There are no exceptions to this rule (pre'74).

There is always a chance however, that I am just full of shit. :)

That old Town hall isnt the best old building around, I've walked around it before and its not the best state. It would be bad to lose it. I dont really understand most of this.

Questions need answering like where the current road go? Thats an important busy road and it cant just be closed off. Why is there a lake with boats? There isnt canal very near by. What will happen to the old Ground?


The lake with boats etc. is at a new site near the Traffic Centre, not a redevelopment.

They're saying they'll vacate their site so that Lancs can expand their ground over the road to make it world class. They'll probably shift the road a little west so that it goes round the back of an expanded OT - no big deal.

Good call in my book. Keep the ground where it is.

imo a stadium,either new or redeveloped should be in manchester..

ideally like the GABBA in brisbane..for me it's the perfect cricket ground,a simple 2 tier oval with a nice capacity (42k)

does the offer for a stadium to be built @ sports city still stand?




http://www.austadiums.com/stadiums/photos/gabba3.jpg

I don't understand why the cricket ground needs to move at all. If it's not up to scratch then make it up to scratch, why do they have to physically move?

Think its something to do with training facilities.

Why can't they just build it on the current Old Trafford Cricket Ground?? Surely if we do relocate or build another LCCC somehwere else, what's the current ground going to do? Turn into an outdoor market place, for all the grannie bargain hunters?

I don't understand why the cricket ground needs to move at all. If it's not up to scratch then make it up to scratch, why do they have to physically move?


isn't the land pretty valuable?? i think thats why there talk of moving away..sell the land,build a new stadium and have a bit of cash left in the bank...if thats the case then it makes perfect business sense..

[QUOTE=skymann][QUOTE=Isaac Newell] Jersey City is half a mile from Manhatten and is in a completely different state.



You make a fair point but I suspect your only reason is to knock up the population of Manchester. Whatever Manchester does to knock up it's population, Birmingham could do the same. Democracy should mean more and smaller councils, forcing Trafford into Manchester would mean suburban councillors on the city council, more Liberals, more Tories, more suburban emphasis and possibly less city centre development.



I think they should incorporate all Birmingham suburbs like Solihull and Smethwick. Satellite towns such as Walsall and Dudley and West Bromich are like Stockport and Bury, no-one's suggesting satellite towns should be incorporated, just suburbs. If all Manchester and all Birminghmam's suburbs were incorporated into the cities both would be about 1.3 million. Clearly Manchester is in a much worse position at the moment because at least Birmingham has its inner suburbs already in the city; Manchester doesn't include suburbs that are right in the regional core such as Old trafford and Salford.

I'd would certainly recommend a small authority that only covers the regional core and then four new authorities covering East, West, North and South (for both Manchester and B'hm. All the five boroughs would pay towards the city centre, but then be able to concentrate on their own particular area for things like Social Services and Housing. What I do object to is mickey mouse boroughs like Trafford, tameside and new Salford (where most the borough is not even in Salford proper), which are Manchester suburbs, but pay not one penny towards the centre.

Just catch a train (Wigan is on West Coast Mainline). Buses will no doubt convey you to the new ground. Even if you got to Manchester, Wigan is only another 20-30 minutes on a district service.

Trafford Town Hall should remain. There's enough 60's/70's shite round that area to warrant keeping an old building like that. A new Trafford Town Hall on the waterfront would be belting.

East Manchester would be my preference for the new cricket ground, increasing Sport City's profile.

I wonder which town in what's left of Lancashire could entice the club to move? Burnley, Colne, Nelson, Preston, Skem??

At the moment though it so much easier.

Most people can get to Manchester Piccadilly on one direct train and then just hop on a Metro Tram to the ground - couldn't be better.

I guess they want to sell the ground so as to raise funds to build another. Personally I would like them to stay where they are. The oval has just built an amazing stand for £18 million (and they have massive restrictions on space) so I it wouldn't cost megga bucks to redevelop Old Trafford and make it look amazing.

For a pic of that new stand at the Oval:

http://www.mintdigital.com/examples/new_oval_stand.html

[QUOTE=Isaac Newell][QUOTE=skymann]

I think they should incorporate all Birmingham suburbs like Solihull and Smethwick. Satellite towns such as Walsall and Dudley and West Bromich are like Stockport and Bury, no-one's suggesting satellite towns should be incorporated, just suburbs. If all Manchester and all Birminghmam's suburbs were incorporated into the cities both would be about 1.3 million. Clearly Manchester is in a much worse position at the moment because at least Birmingham has its inner suburbs already in the city; Manchester doesn't include suburbs that are right in the regional core such as Old trafford and Salford.

I'd would certainly recommend a small authority that only covers the regional core and then four new authorities covering East, West, North and South (for both Manchester and B'hm. All the five boroughs would pay towards the city centre, but then be able to concentrate on their own particular area for things like Social Services and Housing. What I do object to is mickey mouse boroughs like Trafford, tameside and new Salford (where most the borough is not even in Salford proper), which are Manchester suburbs, but pay not one penny towards the centre.

The people of Trafford, Salford and Tameside probably spend a lot of money in Manchester and I suspect the people of Manchester don't spend a lot of money in these areas. So indirectly I think these three areas contribute more to the centre than the centre does to them. I've sais it before and I will bore you with it again :) I believe Manchester should be reduced to it's city centre.

As for Old Trafford, it looks like the Metrolink is hemming it in, and there is not enough room to build big stands that can include corporate entertainment facilities that cricket seems to rely on more than football.

[QUOTE=skymann][QUOTE=Isaac Newell]

As for Old Trafford, it looks like the Metrolink is hemming it in, and there is not enough room to build big stands that can include corporate entertainment facilities that cricket seems to rely on more than football.

How can the Metro link be hemming it in, it was a railway line before (it's not as if the line has suddenly being built) and if anything it is the Metro Link that gives Old Trafford an advantage over other Test Match venues.

[QUOTE=Isaac Newell][QUOTE=skymann]

How can the Metro link be hemming it in, it was a railway line before (it's not as if the line has suddenly being built) and if anything it is the Metro Link that gives Old Trafford an advantage over other Test Match venues.

because times change, venues need to be bigger to cope with corporate entertainment and there is no room to build without encroaching onto the playing area. That is why they are suggesting the demolition of the town hall. To move the road rather than the rail line.

Sometimes tradition is more important than reducing a loss.

Nice to see Trafford Council are being environmentally friendly by proposing an out of town, town hall.

Would this be a world 1st?
Why not go the whole hog and ship the jobs to India?

Unless they are joining Peel in making a contribution to the Metrolink extention?

Sometimes tradition is more important than reducing a loss.

Nice to see Trafford Council are being environmentally friendly by proposing an out of town, town hall.

Would this be a world 1st?
Why not go the whole hog and ship the jobs to India?

Unless they are joining Peel in making a contribution to the Metrolink extention?

Will it not be in Trafford then ? is it going into Salford or Warrington ?

imo a stadium,either new or redeveloped should be in manchester..
Manchester isnt in Lancashire though.

Will it not be in Trafford then ? is it going into Salford or Warrington ?

No.

But the site is only accessible by ...boat or car currently..not a greap leap for mankind in today's climate. Boxed in by the ship canal, M60 and the Trafford centre. This is not progress and will be a waste of tax payers money. Why are we always told an old building can not be adapted?

In the age of wireless technology saying you are relocated a huge building for wheelchair access only requires a major re-think of who is bennifitting from this move?

No doubt someone is getting rich from this proposal....Hmm councillors & Peel by any chance?

As with LBT in London, developers like Peel fall over themselves to attract guarenteed long-term tenants. I presume Trafford council do not pay for the land they currently occupy?

The council has a moral obligation to allow the best access to its facilities, by the greenest transport methods. Otherwise what was the spread of things like wheelie bins all about?

The only obligation the council has is to provide the services allocated to it and to keep the rates affordable. If building a new town hall is more costly than maintaining the old then the council should stay put.
The town hall would make a nice pavillion though.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/IsaacNewell/trf.jpg

It should move to Preston. We are perfect.
:lol:

The only obligation the council has is to provide the services allocated to it and to keep the rates affordable. If building a new town hall is more costly than maintaining the old then the council should stay put.
The town hall would make a nice pavillion though.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/IsaacNewell/trf.jpg

So, there is the solution, build an extension to the town hall and they can share....may get crowded in the canteen on a match day Thursday & Friday

Manchester isnt in Lancashire though.

Yeah, but can anywhere in Lancashire sustain a decent stadium, host test events (think hotels, etc)? The biggest, and only town!, in Lancashire has a laughable 110,000 population.

Perhaps another idea would be for Lancashire County Cricket Club to abandon the idea of attaching itself to a rural shire in favour of a city region??

Yeah, but can anywhere in Lancashire sustain a decent stadium, host test events (think hotels, etc)? The biggest, and only town!, in Lancashire has a laughable 110,000 population.
With a real population of around 350,000. Coming from Manchester, you should know all about those kind of problems.

Perhaps another idea would be for Lancashire County Cricket Club to abandon the idea of attaching itself to a rural shire in favour of a city region??
Thats no good. Not all of the cricketers come from Manchester, including their best one. This is what annoys me. Most Mancunians on this board try to disassociate Manchester with Lancashire in favour of a Manchester city region... except when it suits them. If you dont want to be part of Lancashire, fine. But that doesnt mean you should get to keep certain aspects of the county just because it brings in visitors.

With a real population of around 350,000. Coming from Manchester, you should know all about those kind of problems.

ok, so Lancashire's largest town has metro area bigger than one of our ten boroughs proper (wigan, 310,00)

Most Mancunians on this board try to disassociate Manchester with Lancashire in favour of a Manchester city region.

In all honesty, it's the yonners who try to sack us off in fairness. In my experience, it is not the other way round.

Anyway, I feel a city Manchester club based in Manchester would have a greater argument than a eeh bah gum Lankyshire club, whether that eeh bah gum brigade be based in Manchester, Wigan or out in the sticks.

ok, so Lancashire's largest town has metro area bigger than one of our ten boroughs proper (wigan, 310,00)
With a wider influence over 1 million people within the same amount of time away as it would take for someone in Manchester's outer boroughs to get to the centre. Plus we're also one of the UK's fastest growing cities.

Anyway, I feel a city Manchester club based in Manchester would have a greater argument than a eeh bah gum Lankyshire club, whether that eeh bah gum brigade be based in Manchester, Wigan or out in the sticks.
Try telling that to LCCC supporters from Lancashire, not Manchester. I seriously doubt they would support a team under the banner of Manchester.
LCCC struggles to get enough people in as it is. I somehow doubt they would fare much better if you cut off at least 2/3 of their dedicated supporters, just because Manchester wants to go on yet another ego trip. And what about the Lancashire players hmmm?? Cut off at least 2/3rds of the team while your at it... I'm sure that would do wonders for the club.

>>With a wider influence over 1 million people <<

Bloody hell, thats bigger than Leicester, Sheffield and Bradford. Not too bad for a town that you tend to shoot past on the M6 ithout blinking.

>>try telling that to LCCC supporters from Lancashire, not Manchester. I seriously doubt they would support a team under the banner of Manchester.<<

Lancs tend to play at OT and Waterloo. Though not willing to be able to profess the figures, I bet that most LCC members live outside Lancashire (Merseyside/Yorkshire/Cheshire/Manchester) than live in Lancashire.

OK, maybe calling the new club "Manchester" may be wrong, how about "Mersey Basin"?

I think some people are missing whats actually being proposed here . The old T.H and the newer 70's extensions are going. These are right over the road from O.T and the resulting free space will be used for an expanded ground, without moving .
It doesn't need to move or be called anything but Lancashire C.C. and it won't be .

It doesn't need be called anything but Lancashire C.C. and it won't be .

I disagree. I know very few (in fact not one person under 40) Mancunians who feel any connection at all with Lancashire. Merseysiders too, no longer feel any connection with Lancashire and what about Cheshire? Surely it would make more sense and help to attract far more people (esp younger people) to cricket if people felt a connection with the name. Therefore why not rename the club to the North West Counties Club. That way it would include Gtr Manchester, Cheshire and Merseyside and not just Lancashire. Even people from Cumbria might come occasionally. That way it doesn't matter where the club is as long as it's in the North West.

Cheshire and Cumbria have their own teams. It will always be Lancashire CCC, the club for Lancastrians, Mancunians, Scousers, Boltoners, Salfordians and Prestonians.
And definitely not for anbody from here.
http://www.manchester2002-uk.com/maps/cheshire-pre1974.jpg

I disagree. I know very few (in fact not one person under 40) Mancunians who feel any connection at all with Lancashire. Merseysiders too, no longer feel any connection with Lancashire and what about Cheshire? Surely it would make more sense and help to attract far more people (esp younger people) to cricket if people felt a connection with the name. Therefore why not rename the club to the North West Counties Club. That way it would include Gtr Manchester, Cheshire and Merseyside and not just Lancashire. Even people from Cumbria might come occasionally. That way it doesn't matter where the club is as long as it's in the North West.

Absolute nonsense. How can you claim to know what everyone in Manchester thinks? I live in Manchester and wish it was still Lancashire. You can keep this Greater Manchester rubbish. Manchester has been in Lancashire for hundreds of years and still should be. And I'm 34.

It seems my insurance company and Virgin Trains still think i live in Lancashire when they send me stuff.
Funnily enough though whilst the Inland Revenue think so aswell the DWP and the DVLA dont!
How odd!

It still exists as a postal county, like Middlesex.

It still exists as a postal county, like Middlesex.

The Royal Mail asked all their users to stop using counties at all in their addresses since 1996, becuase from then they have stopped supporting county tags on their databases. In 1974 when Manchester, Liverpool etc. were taken out of Lancashire the official county tag for Manchester was changed from Lancashire to a blank (just as it is for London posttown addresses). Those idiot companies that ignore the Royal Mail's advice and insist on inputting something in the county name are 33 years out of date when it comes to Manchester. The Inland Rev recently and other government agencies have dropped this Lancashire shit after Manchester posttown addresses. More companies are doing so, because a county name is completely superfluous. Most companies with a decent customer department do not include the unneccessary county tag. Some shit companies do, despite strong advice from the Royal Mail not to. Most of these are junk mailers and their crap goes in the bin, where anything with a Manchester, Lancashire tag belongs. I also have lots of mail with "Manchester, Greater Manchester" as companies can buy the modern/admin county too if they want.

Best thing is for the county tag to be dumped completely, that way no one is offended, either by the modern county or the old one.

Whatever anyone writes, Manchester has been in Greater Manchester county since 1974 and that's a fact, regardless of what some arsehole with a dodgy database thinks. Most Mancunians I know are proud of Manchester and that Manchester is its own county. Gtr Manchester is something to be proud of. Only Gtr London and Gtr Manchester are their own counties. I don't know why anyone gives a fuck about Lancashire to be honest.

I used to be a postman (then I escaped). All you need is a posttown and a postcode. If you want to send a letter to Hampstead in NW3 then you don't even need London on the address, the post town is Hampstead and the code is NW3 XXX.

It would be better for everyone to have a personnal postcode, regardless of location, like a French telephone number, no geographical code, just your own personnal code.

Just heared on the radio - Lancashire have announced they will be staying at OT working in partneship with Trafford Council.

Also on the BBC Manchester website.

they've got to make it the best and largest cricket ground in the country...

something like westpac stadium
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/oceania/new_zealand/wellington_westpac1.jpg

or the gabba
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/oceania/australia/queensland/brisbane_qca1.jpg


then the ebc won't have a choice but to give us tests every year

Good news

Those two stadiums look practically identical. Yes, they are huge and have all the facilities, but they don't have any of the character of the English test match venues. Old Trafford needs redeveloping but dont make it into one big, uniform, bland terrace.

If the Town Hall is being knocked down to allow more room for development then I would think the pavillion is going too as it would stand slap in the middle of an expanded site or be facing the wrong way.

yes but them 2 stadia maximize the space available..where as with many english cricket grounds have 4 or 5 different shaped,odd sized stands with in general look a mess..and the thing thats characterized english ground more than anything over the last 15 years as been the athmosphere..

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/oceania/australia/queensland/brisbane_qca2.jpg

imagine 40k barmy army singing and cheering every ball when the stand like that is right ontop of the pitch

Very few games would attract a 40k crown. Last years ashes crowds were the exception. Most days test cricket at Old Trafford against most countries i would say is 75% full. So thats 75% of 22000. A 40k ground would be half empty - where is the atmosphere in that.

I would think that a new cricket ground would have a similar or lesser number of seats than the present one but would have lots of boxes with balconies, a very big new pavillion and possibly floodlights. Would it not be feasable to allow Sale RUFC to use it in Winter or if not then build something similar to Headingley with two stadia that could be used by Lancashire, Sale and Salford.

christ.............show some bloody ambition....


surrey are looking at making the oval a 50k capacity ground.....

The new Vauxhall end at Surrey Oval, which wraps round pretty much half the ground, holds about 17000. So they must be planning to build the other half up pretty high to reach 50000 capacity - plus demolish the pavilion.
That stand cost £23m, and looks damm good to me. Something along the lines of that at Old Trafford would be great.

Surrey Oval

http://www.glasgowarchitecture.co.uk/jpgs/brit_oval_london_miller.jpg

christ.............show some bloody ambition....


surrey are looking at making the oval a 50k capacity ground.....

I've never seen any reference to that and I doubt there is the room. Cricket is a minority sport alongside both codes of Rugby. Cricket only sells out at test level and then only conistently in London due to the City and it's voracious appetite for corporate jollies.

Show me a link though and I will bow to your superior knowledge.

christ.............show some bloody ambition....


surrey are looking at making the oval a 50k capacity ground.....

where did you hear that?

i swear i read it somewhere.....i'm looking round for it now....

in fact i didn't read it.......i heard it on test match special last week...thursday or friday lunch

I've never seen any reference to that and I doubt there is the room. Cricket is a minority sport alongside both codes of Rugby. Cricket only sells out at test level and then only conistently in London due to the City and it's voracious appetite for corporate jollies.

Show me a link though and I will bow to your superior knowledge.

What about 20 20 cricket and one day international matches.

Heard something on Smooth FM news this evening about a cricket ground redevelopment.(probably Lancs?) Only got the tail end, so don't know the full story.

Here. From Lanc site.

There staying. £30 Mill redevelopment. :)

http://www.lccc.co.uk/zimages/images/categories/category_45/airot.jpg

Old Trafford re-development plans
LANCASHIRE announced today that they are in partnership with Trafford Metropolitan Borough Council in a scheme to re-develop the Old Trafford ground and surrounding areas.

It would mean the Club retaining Old Trafford as its headquarters and transforming it into a world-class stadium. A Memorandum of Understanding has been signed by the Club and the Council but approval has to be given by the full Council.

“It is a stunning opportunity for us to get it right,” said Mr Michael Cairns (pictured), the chairman of the Club’s Business Committee, at a Media Conference at Old Trafford today. “We want to be the capital of cricket – outside Lord’s.”

A figure of around £30m has been mentioned in talks of how the ground could be re-developed. But Mr Cairns, who has also headed a sub-committee investigating the Club’s future location, insisted that the playing arena would not be moved from its current position.

"The re-development scheme would incorporate land owned by the Council, including the Town Hall site." Mr Cairns added: “Funding will come out of the development and property gains, and also from other possible partners such as the North-West Development Agency and Sport England. There is the chance to produce an iconic feature for Manchester and for the North-West,” he said.

Jack Simmons, the Club Chairman said: “Nobody is more pleased than me to be thinking of staying here. I also know Freddie Flintoff will feel the same.”

Mr Cairns said: "Trafford MBC, particularly under the leadership of Susan Williams, David McNulty, the Chief Executive, and Dr Gary Pickering have been consistent in their commitment towards developing a partnership that would provide material benefit to make it feasible for us to remain here at Old Trafford. To this end I am delighted to advise you that we have signed a Memorandum of Understanding with Trafford MBC in which they have agreed to:-

• Make their land - being the existing Town Hall - available for redevelopment in such terms that clearly encapsulates material financial support to enable Lancashire C.C.C. to achieve its vision within Trafford. Upon the requisite pre-conditions being satisfied, including full Council approval, the TMBC land would pass to Lancashire and its development partner on terms to be agreed;
• Provide material and planning support for both the re-development of the ground and the land currently occupied by the present Town Hall for the benefit of Lancashire C.C.C.;
• Be prepared to explore and help secure other public funding from relevant sources such as NWDA, Sport England etc;
• Provide other planning gain opportunities which have yet to be formalised;
• Join with Lancashire C.C.C. to form a wider working party with the task of assessing the potential of a wider area with particular input to highways, services, planning etc.

Mr Cairns said: "While the foregoing represents only the outline basis for going forward it does nonetheless represent a full commitment by both parties to produce a cricket arena of outstanding quality together with a development programme which will result in overall regeneration and improvement to this area."

Surrey Oval

http://www.glasgowarchitecture.co.uk/jpgs/brit_oval_london_miller.jpg

That stand added 5,500 seats to the Oval. To knock it up to 50k would require another 26,500 seats. Not a 26,500 seat stand but an EXTRA 26,500 seats on top of the existing structure.

What about 20 20 cricket and one day international matches.
what about them ?

Its gonna be in Wigan, mark my words.

what about them ?


They pull in the crowds.

Although for a ground to be succesful these days they need to do other things then just host cricket matches. For example hosting pop concerts, conferences or even have a hotel ala Old Trafford. Part of the New Stand at the Oval has a big conference centre which will be leased to companies so they can hold training days on non match days.

Its gonna be in Wigan, mark my words.

how can it, they have pledged they are staying.

money talks....

I am actually gutted they are staying at Old Trafford. With my 'dont knock down nice 30's buildings' hat on it seems the worse option.
Why cant they knock down the bloody Kelloggs building down or the B&Q (which Led Zeppelin played in when it was an exhibition hall!).

I am actually gutted they are staying at Old Trafford. With my 'dont knock down nice 30's buildings' hat on it seems the worse option.
Why cant they knock down the bloody Kelloggs building down or the B&Q (which Led Zeppelin played in when it was an exhibition hall!).

I know you are just foolin now Longflakes. I went inside the Kelloggs a few years ago and its bloody luvly inside, fantastic entrance. Extremely cumfy. Made me wish I worked there.

^^ yeah the foyer of Kelloggs is pretty stush, been in there a few times

Alright not Kelloggs then! There is loads of crap further up Talbot Road - just some Bruntwood offices and B&Q!
Leave the town hall alone!

Have they actually confirmed the Trafford TH is for the choppers? Sure I heard yesterday it will be incoporated into the new development...as landfill perhaps?

Have they actually confirmed the Trafford TH is for the choppers? Sure I heard yesterday it will be incoporated into the new development...as landfill perhaps?
It was on the News the other day, saying that Trafford are moving out but the wicket is staying where it is. They also said its likely one of the stands will be moved across to the other side of the ground and it will have big comfy seats.

It was on the News the other day, saying that Trafford are moving out but the wicket is staying where it is. They also said its likely one of the stands will be moved across to the other side of the ground and it will have big comfy seats.

What's the point of knocking the TH down if the wicket isn't moving. The TH is across the road, unless they are moving the whole pitch 50 yards I don't see the point.

Have they actually confirmed the Trafford TH is for the choppers? Sure I heard yesterday it will be incoporated into the new development...as landfill perhaps?

The plan has yet to be agreed by the Trafford councillors. I don't think they be too happy moving to a non-descript office block between Mcr Ship Canal and the Traffic Centre. Also what's the point in having the land where Stretford Town Hall is, with the wide Talbot Road in between? Are they gonna run the road under the whole development?? If not, can't see what the point is?

It might be that with a bolstering of capacity, new stands and corporate areas, theres not much room for parking. Dare I say it, maybe the town hall sites gonna be a multi storey or coach park, think we all can see the nagatives of this option. However I do remember something about the lack of space for a training school being a big factor in the Cricket Club moving, I do think of a training fascility for the kids of the region to be more important then a town hall, but thats a personal opinion.

Apart from maybe the town hall, everything about this news is positive and I really cannot see why some people are getting upperty about these plans. The fact is Manchester needs a test ground, and Old Trafford should be one of the best grounds in the Northern hemisphere, we're being embarrassingly left behind by test venues in Leeds, Birmingham, London, and even places like Nottingham, Southampton and Cardiff have better grounds. Its essential for our city that Old Trafford is the dogs bollocks. Once upon a time, Manchester claimed to be a capital of sport, yet a National Game venue was being neglected and left behind by other venues in the country.

No matter what people think of cricket, bigger grounds in the country have no problem filling for tests/ One day Internationals, and 20/20 competitions and some night matches. Its not football, but a 25,000 plus Old Trafford, with Hotel, Corporate Boxes and Conference Fascilities would not be a waste of money.

It would need a sliding roof, or permanent roof over the playing area.

www.lccc.co.uk/index.php?p=news&id=619

christ.............show some bloody ambition....


surrey are looking at making the oval a 50k capacity ground.....

Sorry for butting into your debate as a visiting Southerner, but I don't think we can do this as the council flats on either side have ancient lights. You're right, though, the new stand is stunning, and the only part of the ground you can easily walk round in during the lunch and tea intervals - if you think Old Trafford is cramped try the Oval. The only trouble is that only part of the stand is open to the public including Surrey members such as myself (although I usually sit near the players' steps at the other end). The rest is taken up by corporate seats, the occupants of which spend most of their time wowing their clients in the dining rooms (even during the Ashes Test). We were to redevelop the two stands next to the Pavilion, but the money ran out (John launched the project as Surrey President). As for Old Trafford, I understand it has lost its Ashes Test in 2009 to Chester-le-Street (or is it Headingley?)

As for councils, I think quite a lot of suburbs of cities in England are not covered by the city authorities, such as Nottingham, where the most prosperous suburbs such as West Bridgford and Mapperley Plains are in outlying authorities, meaning that the city has to cope with all the inner city problems without the revenue that the outlying areas would bring in. However, this situation is common in Continental Europe - Paris only covers the inner core - the banlieus are in outlying departements, and large suburbs in America are not part of the city itself - parts of New York and Chicago are examples of this. Interestingly in my part of the world, small villages in areas of farmland such as Downe and Cudham which were part of Kent are now in Greater London, as are others such as Harefield and Havering, and part of the E4 postcode is actually now in Essex (Epping Forest District), while suburbs such as Warlingham (south of Croydon) and Dartford, which though having its own town centre is part of the South East London built up area, are still in their old counties. By the way, I recently visited Manchester for a business meeting and used free time in the afternoon to walk around the City Centre - most impressed. I particularly liked St Anne's Square and the Town Hall. Only two criticisms - the Arndale is horrible and you do need some more green space in the City Centre. There, hope I haven't bored you all too much.

(John launched the project as Surrey President).

I meant John Major of course. :bash:

From what I can gather the TH land will be given over to the cricket club to raise capital in order to build/extend the actual ground. ie: sell it off to the highest bidder, rake in some cash and build away to their hearts content. I'm probably wrong though.

I want that TH protected.

From what I can gather the TH land will be given over to the cricket club to raise capital in order to build/extend the actual ground. ie: sell it off to the highest bidder, rake in some cash and build away to their hearts content. I'm probably wrong though.

I very much doubt it as that would constitute an illegal use of public funds. Public bodies cannot give away assets to private concerns willy nilly. They will have to give assistance through sympathetic planning permissions, support with infrastructure and grants (having jumped through the relevant hoops).

Of course they could always sell the land to the crciket club and then change the planning permissions to allow flats/offices to be built (hugely increasing its value), but I suspect that may also be seen as an illegal subsidy. Not sure though.

Perhaps part of the complex is to be owned by Trafford council for "community use".

I walked past this today on the way to Old Trafford. At this time the only thing I can think of its that they want bigger stands etc on one side of the ground and more car parks.

I very much doubt it as that would constitute an illegal use of public funds. Public bodies cannot give away assets to private concerns willy nilly. They will have to give assistance through sympathetic planning permissions, support with infrastructure and grants (having jumped through the relevant hoops).

Of course they could always sell the land to the crciket club and then change the planning permissions to allow flats/offices to be built (hugely increasing its value), but I suspect that may also be seen as an illegal subsidy. Not sure though.

No you're right, I shouldn't have said "given over" ..obviously they are not just going to hand it over. But I don't see or can't think of any other way, unless they build training facilities on that land and merely jazz up the main ground? I don't know, it was just a shot in the dark. No doubt there will be someone along very shortly to tell us all how wrong we are.

The only trouble is that only part of the stand is open to the public including Surrey members such as myself (although I usually sit near the players' steps at the other end). The rest is taken up by corporate seats, the occupants of which spend most of their time wowing their clients in the dining rooms (even during the Ashes Test).

Yeah, I hate corporate little wanker-fests when there's serious sport to be watched. 20/20 matches are good, they don't appeal to that section of the market.

By the way, I recently visited Manchester for a business meeting and used free time in the afternoon to walk around the City Centre - most impressed. I particularly liked St Anne's Square and the Town Hall. Only two criticisms - the Arndale is horrible and you do need some more green space in the City Centre. There, hope I haven't bored you all too much.

Not at all SA, the Arndale we're stuck with, it wrecks the fabric of this part of the city....such a monumental mistake. As far as green space goes, it's too late. Unfortunately grass doesn't offer much by way of rental yield. There was once plenty of room in inner Manchester/Salford for a proper planned park the size of Regent's Park. Shame.

I want that TH protected.

Do you want me to get on it?
In my experience i would give it about a 20% chance of listing!
Ive backed lamer horsers than this one though!

Good News (http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/cricket/s/213/213615_ot_is_just_the_ticket.html?rss=yes)

My crack battalion of Heritage Shock Troops have been mobilised so expect a listing Blitzkrieg very soon.
We have Field Marshall O' Rourke leading a division
http://www.eyeonmanchester.com/index.php/site/newsblog/stretford_town_hall_trafford_town_hall_demolished/

My crack battalion of Heritage Shock Troops have been mobilised...

"Our options are limited with our existing building. Access is poor, particularly for disabled people and energy costs are mounting. It was built to suit the old-fashioned council of the 1930s, with lots of single-person offices and grand spaces. It’s over 70 years old and it’s now showing its age"

Fuck me, 70 years old eh? I dont know how the old girl has lasted so long. I've seen worse buildings turned into apartments, incubator offices etc... If you can save this Longshot, I'll support your Granada escapade. Maybe.

Money talks and bullshit walks yet again.

That idiot on EOM seems to think it looks like this

http://img1.travelblog.org/Photos/1029/23563/f/130130-LA-City-Hall-1.jpg

The location of the proposed new town hall.(if it gets built?)

The empty land next to Venus.

http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/gallery/d/3476-1/trafford-park-aerial-m1829.jpg

jrb, you mean the brown land on the left? Isnt that proposed water taxi route going through there?

wow... never realised there was a golf course there.

^^ it's just a driving range

^^ it's just a driving range

why have they got bunkers and greens for a driving range :dunno:

Is it one of those courses where you have an iron and a putter and play a reduced length course?

Pitch and putt? It could be used like that I suppose but it is definately mainly a driving range (very realistic, upmarket one at that).

Are there no other golfers here?

why have they got bunkers and greens for a driving range :dunno:

Is it one of those courses where you have an iron and a putter and play a reduced length course?

They are there to make the practice session a bit more interesting. The greens will be specific distances from the bays... 100/125/150/175/200 yards etc, and the bunkers are in front of the greens to simulate a proper round of golf so you can target a green and miss the bunkers as in a real round. No, you dont navigate round the range, you play from one of the bays under the covered area. This range is probably one of the best ones I've ever used. Met the owner once, very nice bloke as well.

Pitch and putt? It could be used like that I suppose but it is definately mainly a driving range (very realistic, upmarket one at that).

Are there no other golfers here?

yes i used to play golf there when i had P.E. lessons at my school there is a well cool place especially playing upsairs on it is even better

They are there to make the practice session a bit more interesting. The greens will be specific distances from the bays... 100/125/150/175/200 yards etc, and the bunkers are in front of the greens to simulate a proper round of golf so you can target a green and miss the bunkers as in a real round. No, you dont navigate round the range, you play from one of the bays under the covered area. This range is probably one of the best ones I've ever used. Met the owner once, very nice bloke as well.

cheers b4mmy and jerv I apologise you were right.

I have to say as driving ranges go this place looks like it is in the Imperial class. The ones I have used have been on a bog standard field with a pig shed type building.

Some people will certainly be up in arms over the decision to demolish Trafford Town Hall, but surely more people would have missed the cricket ground than will miss this rather mediocre example of 20th century architecture. I think it's great news that a world famous sporting venue is staying within a couple of miles of the city centre. The cricket ground may be known as Old Trafford to most cricket fans, but in other countries the venue is referred to simply as 'Manchester'. It's great that it can now be redeveloped into a world class cricket ground while keeping its history and hopefully reclaiming test match status.

As far as stadia go, only London will have better stadi in the UK. Alas for the poor Sparrows, spread far and wide.

COMS.
OTFG.
OTCG.
REEBOK(a bit far granted)

What about the JRB Stadium aswell! Thats a nice ground.
Lets not forget Gigg Lane (the worse ground in the league) and Boundary Park (the second worse!)

Some people will certainly be up in arms over the decision to demolish Trafford Town Hall, but surely more people would have missed the cricket ground than will miss this rather mediocre example of 20th century architecture. I think it's great news that a world famous sporting venue is staying within a couple of miles of the city centre. The cricket ground may be known as Old Trafford to most cricket fans, but in other countries the venue is referred to simply as 'Manchester'. It's great that it can now be redeveloped into a world class cricket ground while keeping its history and hopefully reclaiming test match status.

I think it's refered to as Old Trafford abroad, granted, they know it's in Manchester, but Lords is Lords and The Oval is The Oval not LONDON, Edgbaston is Edgbaston not BIRMINGHAM, shall I go on..no I don't think so.

I think in Australia they do refer to Manchester rather than Old Trafford. Just like we refer to the Brisbane test rather than the Woolongabba test.

Abroad in cricket terms is not many countries. In Spanish newspapers they don't refer to Manchester or Old Trafford because they're simply not interested.

if you say so

My crack battalion of Heritage Shock Troops have been mobilised so expect a listing Blitzkrieg very soon.
We have Field Marshall O' Rourke leading a division
http://www.eyeonmanchester.com/index.php/site/newsblog/stretford_town_hall_trafford_town_hall_demolished/

good work longford, glad there are people like you in the world.
happy to enlist and be cannon fodder if you need any troupes de secours.

Let battle commence!
I have already been on BBC Radio yesterday and I am on Channel M tomorrow!
Nobody messes with the Longford!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/5015218.stm

Lets not forget Gigg Lane (the worse ground in the league)

You what??

Dont dis Le Stad de Gigg :bash:

I hope you don't end up nudging the cricket to Wigan, Longford. It's more important than a building.

Early days yet, with lots of hurdles to overcome.(especially Tossco's involvement)

New Trafford cricket deal sparks Tesco rumpus

http://www.metronews.co.uk/ContentResources/C_52_Article_3317_BodyText_TextSection_0_Image.jpg

BOLD PLANS: Lancashire's Old Trafford cricket ground is set for redevelopment

ANXIOUS shopkeepers and environmental groups fear that plans to redevelop Old Trafford cricket ground will include a huge new superstore.

Lancashire County Cricket Club has announced an agreement with Tesco, Ask Developments and Trafford Council, which will pave the way for a multi-million redevelopment of its historic ground in Stretford, dubbed "New Trafford".

A new 25,000-seater, world-class stadium is set to be built as part of a £190m development, which includes homes, retail outlets, a hotel and other leisure facilities.

But it is the retail element of the plans - details of which are yet to be confirmed - that has angered independent traders and green campaigners at Manchester Friends of the Earth.

They fought, along with Trafford Council, against Tesco's bid to build an 85,000sq ft store on land next to Stretford Leisure Centre - a stone's throw from the cricket ground.

More than 4,000 people signed a petition and people power appeared to have prevailed last month when a planning inspector dismissed Tesco's appeal against councillors' refusal of the store, saying it would have a detrimental impact on local centres, including Chorlton and Sale.

Tesco was given permission to build a smaller store on the site and is challenging the decision in the High Court. And now Tesco's agreement with the cricket club has sparked fears that the chain could have plans for a new huge store on the LCC site.

Paul D'Ambra, of Manchester Friends of the Earth, said: "It will certainly be a great disappointment if the announcement leads to Tesco opening a large new store as the effect on local traders is clear.

"If it goes ahead, it will show that Tesco's money rides roughshod over the system and that it is prepared to build stores within a hair's breath of each other. Local traders give strength to communities but can't compete with Tesco's buying power."

Debbie Clarke, from the independent Unicorn Grocery, in Chorlton, said: "We fought against the original plans and this would be a big disappointment. We will continue to fight against it."

The new deal appears to have secured LCC's future in Trafford.

Bosses had considered selling the ground because of fears it was not up to modern standards and would be unable to host future test matches.

The new stadium will include new stands, conference and banquet facilities, a hotel and community sports complex. The 750,000sq ft complex will create more than 2,000 jobs.

Jim Cumbes, LCC chief executive, said the stadium would be recognised as "world class standard" and would be "fit for the UK's greatest sporting city region and serving the cricketing hotbed in the North West" .

Tesco spokesperson Tony Fletcher said: "We're appealing against the decision to refuse a larger store but we'll have to consider things in light of the other opportunities.

"This is at an early stage and we'll be considering things over the next few weeks but a store as part of the development is in our thinking."

The partnership will announce more detailed plans early next year.

Trafford Council leader Susan Williams welcomed the agreement but said the future of Trafford Town Hall, which is on the site, had not yet been decided.

Thought the town halls future was now secure Longy? ^^

------------

From LLC's website.

Four-way agreement on Old Trafford future.

http://www.lccc.co.uk/zimages/images/categories/category_45/aerial1-2006.jpg

Lancashire County Cricket Club has paved the way for an exceptional, leading edge, sports-led regeneration scheme which is set to safeguard the future of cricket at Old Trafford.

In the 150th anniversary year of Old Trafford, the Club has passed a major milestone in its redevelopment plans by signing a significant collaboration agreement with partners Trafford Borough Council, Ask Developments and Tesco.

The cricket ground will form the lynchpin of an anticipated 750,000 sq ft development which will have at its heart a new 25,000-seater stadium on its historic site, with new stands, conferencing and banqueting facilities and hotel, and education, training and other sports opportunities for the local community.

Various options for development are now being considered. The development partners are considering a mixed-use scheme of significant quality with business space, residential, retail, hotel, leisure and other supporting development with a potential end value of £190m. More than 2,000 new jobs could be created by the development.

Options for the best possible design and layout of the site for the retail and other elements are to be identified in a new masterplan for the overall site, but it will be fundamentally a highly sustainable development, embracing Metrolink and the prime driver being the anchoring of a new Test Venue as its centrepiece.

Lancashire CCC Chief Executive Jim Cumbes said, "the Old Trafford brand has a massive standing in world cricket. The club has been on the same site since 1857. Our membership and cricket lovers everywhere recognise the contribution that the club makes locally to the economy through visitor attraction, image, marketing and employment in the Borough.

“Together with our local partners, the North West Development Agency and Sport England, we will work towards delivering a scheme which will have at its heart a new stadium fit for the next 150 years, and which will be recognised as world-class standard, fit for the UK’s greatest sporting city region and serving the huge cricketing hotbed in the north west.

“I am delighted that a Partnership of this calibre can now work up the solution to fund this major international sporting initiative and deliver huge economic benefits for the region. Together we make a formidable team and can harness all our capabilities to realise the full potential of the site for our membership, residents, the wider community and visitors.“

Leader of Trafford Borough Council Susan Williams said, "we welcome the signing of this collaboration agreement as a major step forward in securing the future of world class cricket in the Borough and look forward to working with our partners over the coming months to bring the scheme to fruition”.

For Tesco, Tony Fletcher, Property Communications Manager North West, said, "Tesco are very pleased to have this opportunity, in conjunction with our other partners, to use our combined expertise to identify the best possible options for this exciting development, from both a regeneration and a sporting perspective."

The partners will be reviewing all of the development options available over the next 6-12 months with a view to identifying the preferred development scheme early in 2008. Detailed discussions with both the North West Development Agency and Sport England, both of whom have expressed an ongoing desire to support this important regional and nationally significant sporting and regeneration initiative are ongoing.

cheers for this Jrb.

Well the ground needs developing and I'm pleased it's staying put because of it's Metro link access.

If they are to take the Tesco shilling in doing it so be it. Tesco's are everywhere anyway, so I don't see why Old Trafford Cricket ground can't gain from it.

Trafford Council leader Susan Williams welcomed the agreement but said the future of Trafford Town Hall, which is on the site, had not yet been decided.

Thought the town halls future was now secure Longy? ^^


I did aswell!
I thought that when i read it aswell. I wouldnt read too much into that statement though.
We'll cross each bridge etc.
The Tories will be out come the next local elections anyway so we'll see what happens then.

Maybe TTTH could be converted into the hotel element? It could find other opportunities once the commercial output for the immediate surrounds are realised. This venture will clearly add value and improvement for business in that area. We don't need anymore furkin Tossco's though!

What about doing a Hoover factory and putting Tesco behind the Town Hall?

I personally would prefer the town hall to be a hotel - done properly of course.

I assume you're refering to the factory conversion off the A40 going into London Longford. Now i think that is a goodun!

I assume you're refering to the factory conversion off the A40 going into London Longford. Now i think that is a goodun!

:yes:

I positively detest Tesco they are the embodiment of corporate greed and avarice.

They care little for local democracy and generally get their own way by bribes or bullying.:bash:

...but they give you everything you need, with favourably priced products, situated in one convienient easy to reach location. They haven't got where they are now, without getting the paying footfall through their stores.

True, there are lots of them about, but it's a dog-eat-dog world out there. Corporate capatalism has streamrollered over the cosy, friendly corner shop. It is a sad fact of life in a way, but Que Sera, Sera.

Back to the New Old Trafford lol - it should be interesting to see it getting redeveloped, long overdue if you ask me. 25,000 still falls short of some of the stadiums in Australia, but I would prefer a 25,000 specially constructed seater 'Cricket Stadium', than a 90,000+ multi sports use stadium.

The Tesco is already going up. Its all be fenced off across the road from PC World.

Isn't that the baby brother Tesco? as opposed to the huge one that people think is going in at the LCCC site?

"If it goes ahead, it will show that Tesco's money rides roughshod over the system and that it is prepared to build stores within a hair's breath of each other. Local traders give strength to communities but can't compete with Tesco's buying power."

Infact a Tesco there is a very bad idea, well for me it is because when its match day at Old Trafford you'll also have 1000s of women trying to their shopping.

I've had a look on Google earth and this new one they are building backs right on to the town hall. I would think this is the Tesco in the plans. I wouldn't see any point in building a bigger one next door.

Unless they turn one into a Denton style non-food, and the other one into a standard grocery one?

Have a look at Google maps, you'll see what I mean.

i have a problem with tescos expansion, but this will make the new stadium happen. I have seen a couple of schemes for the cricket ground to move, and they were just pie in the sky, and they certainly weren't 25000 seater. This is great news for the simple fact that old trafford will retain its test status and have a world class cricket ground. bring it on, can't wait to see the plans, fingers crossed that they deal with the town hall in a sensible manner and don't bow down to the tesco shilling.

Off topic slightly.

Hopefully this will be a world class Arena/stadia. If it turns out to be as good as we're led to believe, Gtr Manchester will eventually have seven world class sports/music/stadia's/arena's.

Stretford, COMS, MEN, Reebok, LCC, Salford Reds,(new stadium) the Super Casino arena and Altrinchams new ice rink.(3000 seater)

http://www.arvonia.co.uk/images/client/resized/325-Old%20Trafford.jpg

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/united_kingdom/england/north_west/manchester_city_stadium1.jpg

http://www.manchester2002-uk.com/misc/rebok-aerial.jpg

http://www.manchester2002-uk.com/misc/old-trafford-cricket.jpg

http://www.reds.co.uk/images/frontpage_photos/rotator_web.gif

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2007/02/04/ncasino04.jpg

http://www.marketingmanchester.com/news/images/uploaded/7/3/737c9c333dda04fe.jpg

http://www.ilkleygazette.co.uk/_images/db/33/97/cn_Altair_2.339714.full.jpg

Altrincham's ice dome is a temporary ice rink that will be replaced with a larger permanent facility. I don't know if it will be bigger or not. Probs depend on how the next 5 seasons go.

Off topic slightly.

Hopefully this will be a world class Arena/stadia. If it turns out to be as good as we're led to believe, Gtr Manchester will eventually have seven world class sports/music/stadia's/arena's.

Stretford, COMS, MEN, Reebok, LCC, Salford Reds,(new stadium) the Super Casino arena and Altrinchams new ice rink.(3000 seater)

http://www.arvonia.co.uk/images/client/resized/325-Old%20Trafford.jpg

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/europe/united_kingdom/england/north_west/manchester_city_stadium1.jpg

http://www.manchester2002-uk.com/misc/rebok-aerial.jpg

http://www.manchester2002-uk.com/misc/old-trafford-cricket.jpg

http://www.reds.co.uk/images/frontpage_photos/rotator_web.gif

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2007/02/04/ncasino04.jpg

http://www.marketingmanchester.com/news/images/uploaded/7/3/737c9c333dda04fe.jpg

http://www.ilkleygazette.co.uk/_images/db/33/97/cn_Altair_2.339714.full.jpg

Cough Cough, and Gigg Lane :)
http://www.fc-utd.co.uk/images/gigglane.jpg

Trafford Town Hall gains listed status

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/3355/traffordtownhall3546207yl3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Trafford Town Hall is now a grade two listed building

TRAFFORD Town Hall has been listed as a grade two building.

Delighted supporters of the campaign to have the civic building listed believe it has saved it from the threat of demolition.

But the ruling Conservative group claims it is an unnecessary step that will cost the borough's council tax payers millions of pounds.

The move means listed building consent is required before any work can go ahead.

Labour group leader Cllr David Acton - whose group have been pressing to preserve the town hall - said: "It will ensure the historic building will be preserved for generations.

"It would have been a disaster if the building had been demolished."

A conservation group, the Twentieth Century Society, applied for the protected status amid fears that it could be bulldozed.

These concerns were raised last year after town hall chiefs unveiled a proposed partnership between Trafford and Lancashire to develop the town hall land, to raise funds for the £30 million cost of renovating the Old Trafford cricket ground.

http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/3355/traffordtownhall3546207yl3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Trafford Town Hall

The council moved to allay those worries in January when it pledged to "preserve the architectural and historical integrity" of the town hall.

A Conservative group spokesman told Messenger that the council was now carrying out detailed work on two options - either to relocate the town hall and develop the site, or modernise the existing building. A final decision could be made in June or July.

He claimed listed status would devalue the building and increase the cost of renovations, costing the borough millions of pounds.

He said: "Under the Conservative group the council had already resolved to preserve the architectural heritage of the town hall building and this listing just places a costly and unnecessary burden on the tax payer. This leaked information to the Labour group, before the council were officially informed, is of no surprise given the fact that we are now in the run up to local elections in May. It is nothing more than Labour's attempt to score a cheap political point at massive expense to Trafford's tax payers.

"It will ensure the historic building will be preserved for generations."
Cllr David Acton

"Under the proposals agreed by the council, the town hall building would have been preserved and possibly enhanced but without the huge expense to Trafford's tax payers that a listed status confers."

John Reed, the chairman of the Friends of Trafford Town Hall, said of the listing: "We are delighted, this is good news for the campaign and the community."

Cllr Acton added: "It is an important civic building built for and by the community.

"We still feel very strongly that it should remain as a town hall. But the first priority was to retain the building."

Catherine Croft, a director at the Twentieth Century Society, said: "It is great news, we thought it was amazing that the building had not been considered before. I hope it will now have a secure future and be there for generations to come."

A spokeswoman for the Department of Culture, Media and Sport confirmed the town hall was listed on Tuesday. She added: "This means that the owners have to apply for listed building consent to do any work to the property. Carrying out unauthorised work to a listed building is a criminal offence punishable by a fine or a prison sentence and the local council can require you to put the building back as it was."

Sounds good. Thanks flange. This is the sort of beautiful old building that is definitely worth keeping. LOL, the local council can require the local council to put the building back as it was.

£12m opener for Old Trafford

Exclusive by Chris Ostick

21/ 2/2008

LANCASHIRE Cricket Club will begin the first phase of a possible £70m redevelopment of its Old Trafford ground next year.

The initial stage of improving the 150-year-old venue will begin in January and the club will fund the £12m cost itself.

The County Suite, Tyldesley Suite and the front of the ladies stand, from the Pavilion to the media centre, will be replaced with a 1,000-seater function room, which can be split into three. It will double up as hospitality for England Test matches.

The club is in talks with Trafford council, Ask developers and Tesco about a £190m sports-lead redevelopment of the area which will see the rest of the ground revamped along with land stretching from the Old Trafford Metrolink station to Salford Quays.

The plan also involves Trafford Town Hall and a possible relocation of Trafford council.

Lancashire will not know how much it will have to spend on the rest of the ground until later this year at the earliest.

However club bosses have now committed themselves to beginning much-needed work next year.

The first phase is due to finish by April 2010.

The club is in discussions with cricket's governing body, the England and Wales Cricket Board, over a new agreement to host international cricket matches. The current deal runs out at the end of the forthcoming season.

Old Trafford's ageing facilities have been criticised by some in the game, and the county will miss out on an Ashes Test match next year.

Lancashire chief executive Jim Cumbes said: "We knew it would take time to finalise the overall development so we thought we had better show willing to the ECB and our own club members by making the first steps. We are talking to the bank about funding.

"If we realised our dreams of a new or improved hotel, and complete redevelopment of the ground, it would probably cost around £70m."

The club will also spend £1m on new drainage and a new main scoreboard later this summer, while permanent floodlights will be built as part of the overall development.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/cricket/s/1037646_12m_opener_for_old_trafford

Hall boss appointed
Katherine Vine
23/ 5/2008


TRAFFORD Council has appointed a project director for the next phase of its town hall project.

Ian Persechino of Serco Consulting will lead the search for a business partner for the new administrative buildings – either on the current town hall site or elsewhere – and look at different options for the town hall.

In 2006 the council unveiled plans to move the whole council to a new building but, following the successful application for Grade II listed status for the current building, the plans were reassessed.

Last October it decided to retain use of the civic and mayoral parts of Trafford Town Hall, and invite bids from private companies for the development of administrative buildings, which Ian will now undertake.

The council came under fire for spending an estimated £69,000 on reaching this decision – including £48,000 on consultancy and obtaining external advice from surveyor Storeys:ssp, which is supporting the project.

Ian, a qualified accountant and project manager, will oversee the early stages of the work, including the appointment of a team of internal and external advisors.

He said: "I am excited about assisting the council progress its vision to greatly enhance the town hall facilities through to successful completion.

"I look forward to working with staff and the wider project board to achieve this aim."

One of Ian’s tasks will be to ensure the council is able to occupy the new civic office as soon as is practicable.

This is currently scheduled for late 2011.

Councillor Matthew Colledge, deputy leader of the council and chairman of the project board, said: "We are very pleased to have Ian on board and we are sure that his experience and approach will enable Trafford to realise its ambitions, not just for itself but for our staff and local people."

Cough Cough, and Gigg Lane :)
http://www.fc-utd.co.uk/images/gigglane.jpg


What the hell is wrong with Gigg Lane, Life long Bury fan here :D

Next test match is in 4 years time. Bloody disgrace. The board at LCCC is to blame for letting the stadium go to ruin. Serves them right. The new stadium can't come soon enough.

The board at LCCC is to blame for letting the stadium go to ruin. Serves them right. The new stadium can't come soon enough.

I agree jrb, they even knocked down a stand and replaced it with a car park, what the hell is that all about.

What LCCC, should be doing in this time of no tests is using it to rebuild the ground. Apart from a great wicket, great fan base, Old Trafford has something no other cricket ground has in the UK has and that is pretty much it's own Metro Station. This gives it a huge advantage over other grounds.

There is no reason why Old Trafford can't be one of the great grounds, at the moment it doesn't even have flood lights, so there is lots to be done.

If I was in charge of LCCC, I would do a deal with Man United that in return for some cash to rebuild the ground, we would help you tap the Indian market.

I agree jrb, they even knocked down a stand and replaced it with a car park, what the hell is that all about.

What LCCC, should be doing in this time of no tests is using it to rebuild the ground. Apart from a great wicket, great fan base, Old Trafford has something no other cricket ground has in the UK has and that is pretty much it's own Metro Station. This gives it a huge advantage over other grounds.

There is no reason why Old Trafford can't be one of the great grounds, at the moment it doesn't even have flood lights, so there is lots to be done.

If I was in charge of LCCC, I would do a deal with Man United that in return for some cash to rebuild the ground, we would help you tap the Indian market.

What Old Trafford needs is a sliding roof, a removable wicket, movable seating and another sports team operating out of it. A smaller version of Colonial Stadium in Melbourne.

Manchester United are already building a presence in India. The IPL was a response to the growing popularity of football, especially the Premiership, in India.

You'll find that both Lords (St John's Wood) and the Oval (Oval) have tube stations within walking distance.

Baseball?

I'd love it to catch on in this country.

I was thinking Sale Sharks

Lancashire County Cricket Club will be relocating the majority of its conferencing and banqueting operations to a temporary marquee in its car park, as the club prepares for the development of a new 1,000-seat facility. The club will be using the marquee for a maximum of two years, with phase one of the redevelopment at its Old Trafford ground set to begin early next year. During the redevelopment, the club will lose the use of its County and Tyldesley Suites. A spokeswoman for LCCC said the conferencing and banqueting side of the business was “too important to risk losing” during the renovation. “Conferencing and events is a huge part of our commercial activities and something we get a lot of repeat business from,” she said.

http://www.crainsmanchesterbusiness.co.uk/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080826/FREE/877320/-1/toc/-/-/whats-news

I was hoping plans for the masterplanning of LCCC might be released before they start picking away at the problem and that this initial stage has the final design in mind.

I stand corrected, but I'm sure these offices are being built for Trafford Council to relocate to. No documents yet.

Date Received 02-09-2008
Target Date 02-12-2008
Consultation Expiry Date
Committee Date
Date Appeal Logged
Appeal Decision

Application Details
Application Number H/70189
Site Address Former Kratos Site, Barton Dock Road/Mercury Way, Trafford Park
Previous Address
Ward Davyhulme East
Application Type Full
Development Type Office
Proposal Outline planning application for demolition of existing buildings and erection of two office buildings (maximum 27,870 square metres) falling within Class B1together with associated car parking and ancillary structures. Consent sought for creation of access from Mercury Way with all other matters reserved.
Decision
Case Officer Name Mrs V Moran
Case Officer Telephone No. 0161 912 3149
Case Officer E-mail
Applicant Name Peel Investments North Ltd
Applicant Address C/o Agent
Agent Name Turley Associates
Agent Address The Chancery, 58 Spring Gardens, Manchester, M2 1EW
Dates
Valid Date 02-09-2008 Target Date 02-12-2008
Expiry date For Consultations Date Of Last Consultation
Committee Date Decision Date
Appeal Details
Appeal Submitted No Date Appeal Logged
Appeal Decision Appeal Decision Date

http://planning.trafford.gov.uk/MVM/Online/Generic/StdDetails.aspx?PT=Planning%20Applications%20On-Line&TYPE=PL/PlanningTechAppraisalPK.xml&PARAM0=105589&XSLT=/MVM/SiteFiles/Skins/trafford/xslt/PL/PLTechAppraisalDetails.xslt&FT=Planning%20Application%20Details&PUBLIC=Y&XMLSIDE=/MVM/SiteFiles/Skins/trafford/Menus/PL.xml&DAURI=PLANNING

Thank God it's finally getting redeveloped. :)

The new Old Trafford
Chris Ostick
22/ 9/2008

THE new Old Trafford will provide a‘wow’ factor for Test cricket.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/lancs2.jpg

That’s the view of Lancashire’s chief executive Jim Cumbes after the club unveiled their futuristic plans for the 151-year-old ground.

The proposed £70m refit will include two new grandstands, a redesigned pavilion, create a capacity of 15,000 rising to 25,000 with temporary seating for international cricket, permanent floodlights, a state-of-the-art scoreboard with replay screen and a 200-bedroom hotel.

There are also plans for new dressing rooms and media centre opposite the pavilion and conferencing and banqueting facilities. And it is all aimed at bringing Test match cricket, and in particular the 2013 Ashes, back to Old Trafford.

At present the club won’t be holding a Test match in the next four years, and were overlooked for next year’s Ashes in favour of Cardiff. And with nine international venues now all bidding for international cricket, the battle to host matches is more competitive than ever.

Lancashire believe it will take around £41m just to bring Old Trafford up to the ECB standard for Test cricket.

“We have lost the Ashes and we want it back,” said Cumbes. “Old Trafford now falls well short of meeting the required international standards set by the ECB.

“Without significant investment Lancashire will have no choice but to downgrade the ground to county status.”

The futuristic design, put together by the same architects which drew up the new No 1 Court at Wimbledon, BDP, will cause much debate.

“It is very futuristic, there are one or two people who had reservations, as you can imagine,” said Cumbes, who revealed the club will present its plans to the ECB on October 21.

“As a cricket stadium it is actually quite different, but when you look at it and you think about Twenty20 cricket, you think about other cricket grounds around the country it is really quite different.

“Our architects gave it a northern flavour all the way along and they said bold colours is the thing to do in cricket and the more they said it the more it grew on us really.

“I think there will be those who won’t like it because it is not traditional. But there will be others who, like us, look at it and think ‘I am not sure about that’ and then after a while think, ‘I rather like that’.

“It is different and it has that wow factor. I think it is going to be the sort of stadium where people walk up the steps and as they get to the top they will think ‘wow’, and that is really what you are after.”

The plans were backed by Trafford Borough Council after a presentation by Cumbes, club chairman Michael Cairns, and Ken Knott of ASK developers, giving the club the green light to plough ahead with the scheme and apply for planning permission.

The first stage of the redevelopment is set to start in February, with the club aiming for the ground to be completed by 2012, in time to host an Ashes Test in 2013.

The club are currently laying a new £600,000 state-of-the-art drainage system at Old Trafford, aimed at getting players back on the field faster following rain delays.

And at the end of next season they will turn the square to run north-south, which will allow them to create 15 wickets.

The redevelopment is part of a wider £200m project involving the cricket club, ASK, Trafford Council, Tesco and Stretford High School which will partly fund the new Old Trafford.

Those plans include the creation of new business, residential and leisure space in an area stretching from Talbot Road to Chester Road, while the council are also looking into possible options for the listed Trafford Town Hall.

The club have raised £12m themselves to pay for the first phase, and are hoping to receive £8m backing from the North West Development Agency and are also in talks with Sport England.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/jrb041067/lancs1.jpg

From LCCC's website.

Lancashire County Cricket Club has revealed its eagerly-awaited plans for the radical re-development of Old Trafford cricket ground, set to transform the historic venue into one of the country's premier sporting destinations.


The Executive of Trafford Council on Monday evening unanimously approved the proposals, part of an innovative sports-led regeneration strategy for a 50-acre mixed use neighbourhood in Old Trafford. A planning application for the first phase of the new stadium development will be lodged imminently with works potentially starting in early 2009, and phased over consecutive years until completion in late 2012.

The Club, which celebrated its 150th anniversary last year, has put together the plans following months of extensive collaboration with a range of local land-owners and funding partners.

The striking new designs aim to retain the heritage and history of this very famous ground by enhancing the existing pavilion, as well as adding stunning new player and media facilities, conferencing, banqueting and hotel facilities. Two new grandstands will ensure a capacity of 15,000 capable of rising to 25,000 with temporary seating. There will also be floodlights and a screen showing action replays. The architects are BDP, the sports ground experts which designed the new stands and facilities at Aintree and Wimbledon.


View of the overall scheme, seen from in front of the new Media, Press & Players Facility to the south of the ground, with the reoriented wicket in the foreground and retained Pavilion located centrally between the new stands

In cricketing terms, part of the first phase will include a completely new outfield which is currently being installed. The new system, based on the design at Lord’s Cricket Ground, will mean much faster drainage of the outfield, thereby allowing play to commence earlier after heavy rain than is presently the case. The new designs also include the re-orientation of the wicket, to see the square run from North to South for the first time in 150 years. Changing the original East to West orientation will resolve sunlight issues which have affected players. The new square, which will take 18 months to bed in, will also be larger in size, allowing for five new wickets to be constructed, giving Lancashire County Cricket Club the ability to bid for more high profile matches, including internationals. To allow the wicket to be ready in time for The Ashes in 2013, play would need to begin on the new square in 2011.


View of the overall scheme from the new stands, with the Hospitality and Events building in the foreground and the retained Pavilion located centrally between the new stands.

The proposals are being brought forward by a dynamic partnership between the club, Trafford Council, Ask Developments, Tesco and the neighbouring Stretford High School. They include new facilities offering a host of educational and training opportunities for the local community.

The high school’s Head Teacher Derek Davies says: “The club is in detailed discussions with the school and its governors, as well as the local authority, to identify how the proposals can deliver maximum benefits for the local community. This is an exciting opportunity to get Trafford’s young people a great result.”

The proposals come at a time of fierce competition for the rights to stage International Test Matches which has recently seen the ground, and the region, fail to secure any for the foreseeable future. The significant investment being made in the new facilities will ensure that Old Trafford regains its rightful place on the International Test Match circuit in time for the 2013 Ashes Test.

Across the wider Old Trafford neighbourhood the Club and its partners are considering a range of mixed-use activities including new business, residential, retail and leisure space. Trafford Council are evolving a series of options for the Listed Trafford Town Hall as part of the masterplan. The partners are about to embark on a detailed consultation exercise to ensure the proposals secure the maximum regeneration benefits for the Borough as well as securing the future of international cricket at the ground.

When developed in full the “new” Old Trafford neighbourhood could accommodate in excess of 750,000 sq ft of new development with a potential end value of £200m, creating more than 2,000 new jobs.

Lancashire Chief Executive Jim Cumbes said: "The Old Trafford brand has a massive standing in world cricket. The club has been on the same site since 1857.

“Our membership and cricket lovers everywhere recognise the contribution that the club makes locally to the economy through visitor attraction, image, marketing and employment in the Borough.

“Together with our local partners, the Northwest Development Agency and Sport England, we will work towards delivering a scheme which will have at its heart a new stadium fit for the next 150 years, and which will be recognised as world-class standard, fit for the UK’s greatest sporting city region and serving the huge cricketing fan base in the north west.

“I am delighted that Trafford Council have, in principle, welcomed our vision for this international sporting initiative to become a reality. It will deliver huge economic benefits both for Trafford and for the north-west region.”

Leader of Trafford Council Susan Williams said: “We warmly welcome the proposals as a basis for wider consultation. We fully support the club’s ambitions to secure the future of international cricket in the north-west and we look forward to it gaining a richly deserved international profile. The new Old Trafford will bring an awareness and interest to the borough which will further boost our famous sport, leisure and visitor offer.

“We are delighted at the high calibre partnership, who are working together to put forward a project that could potentially bring major investment, jobs and educational and sporting opportunities to the borough and its residents.”

Ken Knott, Chief Executive of Ask Developments, said: “Ask Developments is delighted to be appointed as Old Trafford’s development partner for such an outstanding mixed-use scheme, which will contribute greatly to the borough and see Old Trafford rightfully regain its reputation as a world-class venue.”

Michael Kissman, spokesman for Tesco, said: "Tesco are very pleased to be part of this innovative partnership. It is a great example of the imaginative thinking required to drive forward such a major sports project and regeneration initiative. We are confident that together we will deliver a whole range of benefits for the people of Trafford, Greater Manchester and the North West as a whole.”

Detailed discussions with both the Northwest Development Agency and Sport England, both of whom have expressed an ongoing desire to support this important regional and nationally significant sporting and regeneration initiative are progressing very positively.

Thought I'd post the renders again.

http://www.lccc.co.uk/00images/development/OT2-web.jpg

http://www.lccc.co.uk/00images/development/OT1-web.jpg

I don't like the look of that JRB. Far too much corporate hospitality and a bit of an eyesore! :ohno:

I don't like the look of that JRB. Far too much corporate hospitality and a bit of an eyesore! :ohno:

More boxes Paul. That's what Manchster is Famous for. Boxes give a Northern feel. :lol:

More boxes Paul. That's what Manchster is Famous for. Boxes give a Northern feel. :lol:

:lol:

We used to go to Old Trafford with our junior school on Sundays to see Lancashire. One day the match was washed out and we got all the players autographs. Clive Lloyd (the six hitter!), Paul Allott, Jack Simmions (who played for ever and ever!), David Hughes, David Lloyd, Ian Abrahams were playing then in the early 80's. Another time, it was washed out the teachers took us to Manchester Airport for the day rather than take us home early!

But seriously, I know Old Trafford is due a serious revamp. It won't be holding another test for 4 years, whilst the likes of Sophia Gardens in Cardiff and the Riverside in Chester le Street are awarded tests ahead of it (I ask you!). But I think it’s dangerous to drastically alter the stands of cricket grounds to this extent. Old Trafford was always a ground were "reverse swing" was possible. With the new layout of the stands, it might change totally the ballistics of how the ball behaves! :lol:

:lol:

We used to go to Old Trafford with our junior school on Sundays to see Lancashire. One day the match was washed out and we got all the players autographs. Clive Lloyd (the six hitter!), Paul Allott, Jack Simmions (who played for ever and ever!), David Hughes, David Lloyd, Ian Abrahams were playing then in the early 80's. Another time, it was washed out the teachers took us to Manchester Airport for the day rather than take us home early!

But seriously, I know Old Trafford is due a serious revamp. It won't be holding another test for 4 years, whilst the likes of Sophia Gardens in Cardiff and the Riverside in Chester le Street are awarded tests ahead of it (I ask you!). But I think it’s dangerous to drastically alter the stands of cricket grounds to this extent. Old Trafford was always a ground were "reverse swing" was possible. With the new layout of the stands, it might change totally the ballistics of how the ball behaves! :lol:

Good. We might win the championship. :) I'd like to see the model and an aerial render.

christ

christ indeed.......it's gash..


not a patch on what hampshire's rose bowl will look like when thats finished..

From Crains.

Plans for cricket ground include new outfield
By Simon Binns


Lancashire County Cricket Club will reveal plans for the redevelopment of its Old Trafford cricket ground today.

The scheme is part of a sports-led regeneration strategy for a 50-acre mixed-use neighbourhood in Old Trafford.

A planning application for the first phase of the new stadium development is due “imminently” according to club officials, with works potentially starting in early 2009, phased over consecutive years until completion in late 2012.

The project involves enhancing the existing pavilion, adding new player, media, conferencing, banqueting and hotel facilities. Two new grandstands will give the ground a capacity of 15,000 rising to 25,000 with temporary seating. There will also be floodlights and a screen showing action replays.

The architects are Manchester-based BDP.

A completely new outfield is also being installed at the ground, based on the design at Lord’s Cricket Ground, which will allow faster drainage.

The new designs also include the re-orientation of the wicket, to see the square run from north to south for the first time in 150 years.

The new square, which will take 18 months to bed in, will also be larger in size, allowing for five new wickets to be constructed, giving the club the ability to bid for more high profile matches, including internationals. To allow the wicket to be ready in time for The Ashes in 2013, play would need to begin on the new square in 2011.

The proposals are being brought forward through a partnership between the club, Trafford Metropolitan Borough Council, Ask Developments, Tesco and Stretford High School.

Across the wider Old Trafford neighbourhood, the club and its partners are considering a range of mixed-use activities including new business, residential, retail and leisure space, which could include more than 750,000 sq ft of new development with a potential end value of £200m, creating more than 2,000 new jobs.

LCCC chief executive, Jim Cumbes, said: “We are working towards delivering a scheme which will have at its heart a new stadium fit for the next 150 years, and which will be recognised as world-class standard, fit for the UK’s greatest sporting city region and serving the huge cricketing fan base in the north west.”

I think the general consensus is *crap*!

From Manchester Confidential.

Old Trafford to get bigger

Jonathan Schofield and the welcome submission of plans to secure cricket’s top class presence in the city


The future of Lancashire County Cricket Club’s dilapidated ground at Old Trafford has been debated for years. Matters came to a head when the County lost the right to host a Test match in the up-coming 2009 Ashes series with Australia for the first time since 1878. Questions were even asked whether the club should remain in its historic home after 150 years or move elsewhere, perhaps to Wigan for instance.


New plans in association with architects BDP will result in a modern, bright, exciting cricket ground which, given Manchester’s reputation as a heartland of the sport, should guarantee the return of the Ashes in 2013.




Those questions now seem in the process of being answered. New plans in association with architects BDP will result in a modern, bright, exciting cricket ground which, given Manchester’s reputation as a heartland of the sport, should guarantee the return of the Ashes in 2013.

BDP have a track record of delivering sports ground improvements with new stands and facilities at Aintree and Wimbledon. The designs at Old Trafford aim, as the press release says, ‘to retain the heritage and history by enhancing the existing pavilion, adding stunning new player and media facilities, conferencing, banqueting and hotel facilities. Two new grandstands will ensure a capacity of 15,000 capable of rising to 25,000 with temporary seating.




There will also be floodlights and a screen showing action replays. The package of redevelopment has a lot of partners: Lancashire County Cricket Club, Trafford Council, Ask Developments, Tesco and the neighbouring Stretford High School. They hope to deliver in the immediate area in excess of 750,000 sq ft of new development with a potential value of £200m, creating more than 2,000 new jobs.




In cricketing terms, part of the first phase will include a completely new outfield. The new system, based on the design at Lord’s Cricket Ground, will mean faster drainage of the outfield, thereby allowing play to commence earlier after heavy rain. The wicket will be re-orientated to see the square run from north to south.

Changing the original east to west orientation will resolve sunlight issues which have affected players. The new square, which will take 18 months to bed in, will also be larger in size. If planning permission is granted work will start in early 2009 for completion in late 2012.

LCCC Chief Executive Jim Cumbes said: "The Old Trafford brand has a massive standing in world cricket. Our membership and cricket lovers everywhere recognise the contribution that the club makes locally to the economy through visitor attraction, image, marketing and employment in the Borough. We will work towards delivering a scheme which will be recognised as world-class standard.”




He would say these lovely positive things of course. And Confidential agrees with him. The only real question lies with the lovely 1895 pavilion, or rather its facade, the rest having been mucked about with in previous decades. Why does a glass feature, in the proposals, mask everything except the pavilion towers?

That aside, this is certainly good news. Greater Manchester is already arguably the sporting capital of the UK, certainly in its concentration of facilities and with its profile and success in football and cycling. Cricket has a huge role to play in this. The updated and expanded facilities are necessary to confirm this sporting ascendency and maintain Manchester’s presence at cricket’s top table.

Click to rant!

Rants.

slowleftarm says..“ Presumably there will be more improvments other than the corporate red boxes? They overshadow some of the best parts of the ground where there has traditionally been most spectator activity. Whilst the corporate offer will bring the cash in, the 1000's of people waiting outside the ground at the last Ashes test would not sit there. Don't forget there should be better/more seating and better/more facilities for the regular fan also.”



Click to rant!


Richard McCartney says..“ Why a Tesco - presumbly findinng space somewhere on the exisiting site - they seem to have so many councils in their pocket.”



Click to rant!


stickywicket says..“ This article seems to be missing one vital point about these plans. They look, erm...crap. I love Lancs CCC and the history and heritage of Old Trafford. Undoubtedly OT needs a face lift, the facilities on big test match (and concert) days were sadly lacking and I can see the point about reorientating the square. But really these plans look like a school project that gets binned because the pupil failed to read the brief properly. The Pavillion, as it stands, is absolutely stunning and should be the centre piece of a state-of-the-art new ground. And as for those red and green boxes? Surely we can get something better looking than this? ”



Click to rant!


lobster69 says..“ Why on earth have they ruined the only thing in the ground worth retaining? The glass box on top of the pavillion looks crap. They should leave the pavillion facade as it is now.”



Click to rant!


Drew Peacock says..“ I really hope this thing gets thrown out by the planners. It's bl00dy terrible. What's with the big daft green and red boxes?...there seems loads of wasted space in them? Looks rubbish, seems to be just aimed at the corporate market and there seems to be nothing for the average cricket fan...unless it's the Tesco's mentioned!!!??”



Click to rant!


TheHuff says..“ You said it stickywicket. It does look crap. Why have they turned OT into an Urban Splash design? Is Tom Bloxon to build more empty flats in manc? Or are they using freshers week to showcase last years winners at the Architechture BA(hons) department. Oh well keep trying jonny extra... The Oval is a fine example of mixing old with new. Leave the pavillion as the traditional fine centre piece it is. There's masses of space to create one huge fine stand instead of throwing up a few coloured boxes. NEXT ”



Click to rant!


Zoon says..“ It looks like the sort of the thing that you would find on Tracey Island... you could imagine Thuderbird 1 coming out of the top of the Pavilion... Great news that it is being developed coz we all know the current facilities are terrible.. but there is only one chance to get this right.... as the HuffMeister said we don't need any more Urban Splash tat. Hey Huff after last seasons performance I could see you playing here soon ;-)”



Click to rant!


paul smith says..“ These plans ruin the pavillion, throw them out now. And only 15,000 permanent seats? Seems like a step backwards rather than forwards. More corporate less real fans. brilliant. not.”



Click to rant!


burt Codeine says..“ I keep looking and looking but something just isn't right...is it a Trafford thing rather than a Manchester thing (No.1 Picc Gardens aside)? It all looks a little piecemeal, a post modern Maine Road if you will! BDP have done some good stuff (and those boxes do have the feel of a race course 'stadium') and perhaps this will be a grower...but when they throw out statements like 'this will last another 150 years' I'll echo Zoon in that they only have one chance to get it right. Are the red boxes Tesco 'Ultras' - shop and watch play? I have a spot of OCD and this all looks a little unbalanced, asymmetric and the wrong side of the Oval...”



Click to rant!


Anonymous says..“ Red stands for a game played with a red ball - very clever - or have they given up entirely on test match cricket now?”

jebus. looks like a bag of wine gums. change it.

They have got into bed with Tesco due to their short sightedness. All that cheap booze next door will affect the huge amounts of cash they must make during the Test Match. Why pay £4 a pint when you can get a 12 pack next door for the same?

It's almost as bad as the terrible scheme Tesco came up with for Everton. Almost.

i like it to an extent...

I like it too :runaway:

Hate cricket - like this. Looks cheap and tacky though but in a Gerry Anderson type way.

In other news.........can anyone explain to me (this applies to the Everton proposals aswell) how having a supermarket right next to large sporting venue works re parking, congestion etc? It s a fucking stupid idea if you ask me but Tesco 'planning' often baffles me.

It's not going to set the world alight but I like its big'n'bold aesthetic.

I think the problem when looking at any new additions to cricket grounds is that they pale into insignificance in terms of scale and budget when compared to football stadia, I think the association leads to unrealistic expectations. At the end of the day I'm just glad that they are staying on this site; clearly the money isn't there for a bells and whistles new build or more wholesale redevelopment.

It looks a bit fruity with the gleaming sky, however under Manchester's typical weather I'm sure the 'cheap and tacky' appearance will just look plain cheap.

Why are they only showing the pavillion end of the ground and not showing the stand that backs onto the tram tracks?

Are they not doing anything with that end - where there is a huge gap at the moment.

It's bold, it's bright and it's uplifting. Anymore white or pale grey and it would look like any other cricket ground and a nutty house.

http://www.sugarstand.com/images/sc/sc0105c.jpg

I like it. I can see why the worries are there, but with that initial phase, I have none.

I'm not entirely sure why, but it reminds me of the West Indies. I wish I could understand why I think that. I really do love it though, the boxes have a certain Manchester big and bold class about them, the colours add a certain vibrancy that hasn't been in at that ground for a long time.

Good start to the redevelopment, in my book.

The planning application is now online

http://planningdocs.trafford.gov.uk/eintranet/pam/planning_application_search_pam.jsp?APPLICATION_NUMBER=H/70373&SearchType=Planning%20Application/


Lancashire County Cricket Club, Warwick Road, Stretford, Manchester, M16 0PX

Demolition of existing County, Jubilee and Tyldesley Suites and associated area of terraced seating and development of a new grandstand comprising a hospitality and events venue and associated section of new terraced seating (with a total capacity of approximately 2,250). Associated alterations to access road layout.

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1678/lccc1sc4.jpg

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3445/lccc2nn1.jpg

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5188/lccc3jk1.jpg

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8862/lccc5rz6.jpg

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7899/lccc4mm3.jpg

I like. Fun n funky! I hope a rugby league game is played there!

I like. Fun n funky! I hope a rugby league game is played there!

Its a cricket ground?

LCCC redevelopment gets go ahead

11:52am Friday 12th December 2008

By Hannah Al-Taraboulsy

MEMBERS of Traffford’s planning committee gave a unanimous yes to plans for Old Trafford cricket ground to receive a major facelift as part of a proposed £200m regeneration project.

The 151-year-old stadium will form the centrepiece of a 50-acre development, stretching from Talbot Road to Chester Road, including new business, residential, retail and leisure space and is set to rival Melbourne’s famous MCG Stadium.

About £70m will be spent on Lancashire Cricket Club’s home in a bid to bring international Test cricket back to Trafford.

At last night’s meeting LCCC’s chief executive, Jim Cumbes, said: “This will be a world class cricket stadium, designed to regenerate the area aroung the ground and the club, which has struggled in recent years to compete with other clubs with new facilities.”

The plans include redesigning the historic pavilion, building a new 200-bedroom hotel and installing permanent floodlights and a state-of-the-art scoreboard.

Capacity at the ‘new’ Old Trafford would be 15,000, capable of rising to 25,000 with temporary seating.

As part of the overall scheme, Trafford Council is also looking into potential options for the future of the listed Trafford Town Hall building.

The Old Trafford neighbourhood regeneration will see Trafford Council work in partnership with the cricket club, Ask Developments, Tesco and Stretford High School.

It is hoped work will start in February 2009, with completion scheduled for late 2012.

http://www.messengernewspapers.co.uk/news/3972422.LCCC_redevelopment_gets_go_ahead/

AHD.

0_k6odVf1Cw&feature=PlayList&p=718FADB097A60CC8&index=4

I hope they cancel this. I won't tell you my reasons, you'd laugh!

25,000 with temporary seating? Surely if they build a permanent 25,000 capacity they're a far bigger draw than any of the other northern grounds.

Theres a major ground in Leeds? How big is that?

Only about 17,000 at the moment, I think.

I hope they cancel this. I won't tell you my reasons, you'd laugh!

See there charging £10 now at LCCC for football parking! F*****G rip off. If they close that 'huge' carpark its gonna make match day parking even more difficult.

See there charging £10 now at LCCC for football parking! F*****G rip off. If they close that 'huge' carpark its gonna make match day parking even more difficult.

rumbled, its a fucking disgrace.

Old Trafford's £200m innings

Jill Burdett

13/ 1/2009

WORK on the ambitious redevelopment at Lancashire County Cricket Club's Old Trafford headquarters will start next month after planners gave approval to the £200m scheme.

The first phase of the development will bring a new conference and banqueting centre capable of catering for up to 1,000 people, and will be one of the largest venues in the north west. A contractor for the £12m project is expected to be announced early next week.

Philip Grant, of Drivers Jonas, which advised on the planning application, said: "This approval represents the first crucial step in launching a wider redevelopment package for the ground and surrounding area that will deliver enormous benefit to the wider community.

"It will allow the club to start work in redeveloping the ground so that LCCC can bring international test cricket back to Manchester as quickly as possible."

The distinctive self-contained building, designed by architects BDP, will overlook the pitch at Old Trafford and will look to pull in major conferences and events.

Completion is due in the summer of 2010 and the club is trying to keep corporate entertainment business as usual, with a solid walled marquee erected late last year that can accommodate 700.

Lancashire's commercial director, Geoff Durbin, said: "We are keen not to lose anyone and it was very important for us to retain the quality of staff - and the marquee proved the perfect solution.

"The new facility will be the best of its kind. Manchester has been crying out for a 1,000-plus capacity events building for many years so it is good news for us, for Trafford and the wider region."

The new conference venue is being solely funded by LCCC. Later phases will include new business space, housing and leisure facilities.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/business/s/1090037_old_traffords_200m_innings__

I really like the new design (and love the fact BDP are involved in this project), and can't wait to see the work start.

Theres a major ground in Leeds? How big is that?

Headingley is 17,000, and has undergone significant re-development in the last few years.

If your reason for hoping its cancelled is car parking costs on United matchdays, then that's a bit pathetic.

I've got to say I'm really looking forward to this taking shape. It's cool that they've got a bit of colour in there, something which is lacking from most cricket grounds. Roll on 2013!!!

I really like the new design (and love the fact BDP are involved in this project), and can't wait to see the work start.



Headingley is 17,000, and has undergone significant re-development in the last few years.

If your reason for hoping its cancelled is car parking costs on United matchdays, then that's a bit pathetic.

The robbing bastards can fuck off as far as I am concerned.

The robbing bastards can fuck off as far as I am concerned.

Why drive? There is the public transport alternative.

Why drive? There is the public transport alternative.

I'll use the tram anytime of day but never ever to and from the match. Anyway found somewhere else, bring it on. :)

I'll use the tram anytime of day but never ever to and from the match. Anyway found somewhere else, bring it on. :)

Well if you chose to go by car, then you pay the price. Just the same as we were advocating for the congestion charge. We should be applauding anything that makes people think twice about using cars. It has been said many times on this forum that car use is too cheep, and rightly so. If you have to pay more for the convienience of getting to the match by car then so be it. I live relativly close to OT and have to say that congestion on match days is far worse than at any other time. Perhaps you need your behaviour modified?

See there charging £10 now at LCCC for football parking! F*****G rip off. If they close that 'huge' carpark its gonna make match day parking even more difficult.

I reckon I'd much rather throw a tenner at LCCC, than give the Glaser scum 40 quid!

Well if you chose to go by car, then you pay the price. Just the same as we were advocating for the congestion charge. We should be applauding anything that makes people think twice about using cars. It has been said many times on this forum that car use is too cheep, and rightly so. If you have to pay more for the convienience of getting to the match by car then so be it. I live relativly close to OT and have to say that congestion on match days is far worse than at any other time. Perhaps you need your behaviour modified?

Perhaps you should try and use the tram on a match day.

I reckon I'd much rather throw a tenner at LCCC, than give the Glaser scum 40 quid!

£10 x 30 games a season. You got £300 quid to give me so I can for 2 hours a week?

I live relativly close to OT and have to say that congestion on match days is far worse than at any other time.

Likewise, and the traffic is a pain in the arse, not to mention the selfish bastards who block side streets and create potentially dangerous situations with their parking.

I have absolutely no problem with LCCC charging £10 (which I believe is the same as United charge on a match-by-match basis) to park on their property. Public transport is perfectly adequate for getting to and from Old Trafford - tram, train and bus services. Yes they get full, but that's the nature of attending a large event. Just like the congestion charge - if you want the convenience of using your car, then you should have to pay for it.

Likewise, and the traffic is a pain in the arse, not to mention the selfish bastards who block side streets and create potentially dangerous situations with their parking.

I have absolutely no problem with LCCC charging £10 (which I believe is the same as United charge on a match-by-match basis) to park on their property. Public transport is perfectly adequate for getting to and from Old Trafford - tram, train and bus services. Yes they get full, but that's the nature of attending a large event. Just like the congestion charge - if you want the convenience of using your car, then you should have to pay for it.

You cannot compare it to the congestion charge. It doesn't go towards improving transport. It goes into someones back pocket!

You cannot compare it to the congestion charge. It doesn't go towards improving transport. It goes into someones back pocket!


I have to agree that the money does not go to funding public transport, however the principles could be said to be along the same lines. The car user benefiting from the convenience of driving is charged. You chose to travel by car, you must expect to pay for parking at events such as thiis. You say it goes into someones back pocket, would you allow someone to park on your land for free?

A little off topic but, It has been said many times on this forum that driving is too cheap, parking costs are also far too cheap as far as I can see. Where is the deterrent from car usage when its only £3 all day parking at the Boddingtons site?

I have to agree that the money does not go to funding public transport, however the principles could be said to be along the same lines. The car user benefiting from the convenience of driving is charged. You chose to travel by car, you must expect to pay for parking at events such as thiis. You say it goes into someones back pocket, would you allow someone to park on your land for free?

A little off topic but, It has been said many times on this forum that driving is too cheap, parking costs are also far too cheap as far as I can see. Where is the deterrent from car usage when its only £3 all day parking at the Boddingtons site?

Sorry but I use the tram and train 4 times a day. I avoid the car at all costs but on match days their isn't really a better option until capacity is increased. You can easily have upto 5,000 people queuing to travel into Manchester. Hopefully next season with the new trams that will be fixed. I have a feeling that it won't.

I don't think LCCC thinking its fine to charge £10 to park your car is good enough. I've been using it for years. I don't see how an increase of over £170 is justified from last season. Last season I paid £130 for the year, this year they won't do permits and they have put the price up by £5. I think that's a kick in the teeth.

I don't think LCCC thinking its fine to charge £10 to park your car is good enough. I've been using it for years. I don't see how an increase of over £170 is justified from last season. Last season I paid £130 for the year, this year they won't do permits and they have put the price up by £5. I think that's a kick in the teeth.

Supply and demand, the cost will be whatever the demand allows, its just market forces. If the costs become too high there will be less or no demand and people will go elsewhere as you have done. However I think that at £10 there will still be people willing to pay. If you had parking space wouldnt you get the maximum you could?

You cannot compare it to the congestion charge. It doesn't go towards improving transport. It goes into someones back pocket!

Supply and demand pal, where the money goes is irrelevant. The congestion charge was using public resource, so the money would have gone into public hands. LCCC is private property, so the money goes into private hands.

Car parking is a primary source of income for LCCC, indeed probably vital to their survival. The money for this development isn't going to come out of thin air.

Supply and demand pal, where the money goes is irrelevant. The congestion charge was using public resource, so the money would have gone into public hands. LCCC is private property, so the money goes into private hands.

Car parking is a primary source of income for LCCC, indeed probably vital to their survival. The money for this development isn't going to come out of thin air.

If you are going to base your argument on trying to get cars off the road, where the money goes is very important! Anything else does not matter. That is call greed.

If you are going to base your argument on trying to get cars off the road, where the money goes is very important! Anything else does not matter. That is call greed.

LCCC's property, LCCC's money. No-one is forcing you to use their facilities.

If you are going to base your argument on trying to get cars off the road, where the money goes is very important! Anything else does not matter. That is call greed.

No its not called greed, its called the free market economy. Supply and demand, getting the best return from your assets. LCCC are just maximising the income from their assets, charging what the market will sustain.

You are not telling me that if you had a piece of land (or office space, appartment, hotel rooms etc etc) that you wouldnt get the maximum rental income that the market would allow! Because if thats what you are saying then I dont believe you.

Work has started on the stands. aka a large piece of machinery is ripping them down. If anyone wants any pictures before they are gone, I recommend you go down this week.

A new framework document for Old Trafford regeneration surrounding LCCC, dated Feb-09, from the LCCC website:

'Creating a world Class Destination for World Class Cricket – A Sports-led
Regeneration Framework for Old Trafford. Lancashire County Cricket Club in
Partnership with Ask Property Developments Ltd, 2009.'

http://www.lccc.co.uk/download/Final-Regeneration-Framework.PDF

LARGE file, 8Mb, right click, save as...

From page 25:
http://i44.************/28a1d7m.jpg

PR from the NWDA:

NWDA investment to secure international cricket in the Northwest
http://www.nwda.co.uk/news--events/press-releases/200901/securing-international-cricket.aspx
11 March 2009

Lancashire County Cricket Club has secured a £2.65 million investment from the Northwest Regional Development Agency (NWDA) to upgrade its facilities and help to secure the future of international cricket in the region.

Fierce competition for the rights to stage International Test Matches has recently seen the ground, and the region, lose Test Matches for the next 3 years, with the real possibility of never recovering them. The improvement and modernisation of the ground’s facilities will go a long way to ensuring that Old Trafford regains its place on the International Test Match circuit in time for the 2013 Ashes Test.

The Agency’s investment will help to support the development of a number of facilities to enable the Club to become more competitive in hosting future international cricket matches. This first phase includes:

• The construction of a new Hospitality & Events Grandstand, incorporating ‘green’ elements such as ground source heating, solar heating and rain water harvesting;
• The provision of up to 2,500 new permanent spectator seats;
• Specific cricketing developments including floodlights, a power upgrade, new outfield and drainage system and a new scoreboard and replay screen;
• Providing a catalyst for the commercial redevelopment of the adjoining Trafford district centre.

This first phase is part of a wider sports-led regeneration scheme of Old Trafford Cricket Ground and the surrounding area, which aims to bring long term commercial and community benefits to Trafford. A development partnership, involving Ask Developments, Lancashire County Cricket Club, Trafford Council and Tesco has been formed to drive this vision forward.

Steven Broomhead, NWDA Chief Executive, said:

“The Agency’s investment will help to unlock an important first stage of the cricket ground’s development which would not be able to progress without public sector intervention. This would result in the region facing the potential permanent loss of international cricket, and greatly reduce the impact the Club makes to the regional economy.

“As well as helping to strengthen the region’s tourism offer by helping to create an internationally-significant visitor destination, importantly this investment will help to safeguard jobs and lever in substantial private sector investment.”

Jim Cumbes, Lancashire County Cricket Club Chief Executive, said:

“We have had an excellent working relationship with the NWDA for many years, and I think it’s fair to say, they were as disappointed as we were when Old Trafford wasn’t awarded an Ashes Test Match. Since that announcement back in 2006, we’ve been in talks about how we can work together on delivering Test Match cricket at Old Trafford for decades to come.

“The North West community loves its cricket, and Test Cricket at Old Trafford has traditionally attracted sports-lovers from throughout the UK and the world. Our sports-led regeneration scheme is one of the most complex developments in sports history, but if everyone is as keen, supportive and excited about our plans as the NWDA, then our ambitions will be met in time for the Ashes in 2013.

“Not only do we hope to bring back Test Match cricket to Old Trafford, but the completion of Phase 1 will safeguard existing jobs and create new ones going forward.”

-ends-

Note to Editors

“Phase 1” of Old Trafford’s redevelopment plans include: installation of a new outfield and drainage system (completed in November 2008), new replay screen and scoreboard (due for completion June 2009), installation of permanent floodlights (work to start at the end of the 2009 domestic season) and construction of the new Conference & Events Grandstand (completion due June 2010).

Work has started on the stands. aka a large piece of machinery is ripping them down. If anyone wants any pictures before they are gone, I recommend you go down this week.

Big pile of rubble today.


Andrew

Old Trafford's Ashes target

May 06, 2009

OLD Trafford looks set to host an Ashes Test in 2013.

The world-famous ground was snubbed in favour of Cardiff's Swalec Stadium for this year's opening match against the Aussies, and at the moment isn't scheduled to host another Test for at least another next four years.

Work is already underway on a new £12m conference centre at OT, the first part of a planned £70m redevelopment of a ground which has started to look very tired compared to other Test match venues.

The England camp are said to be baffled why one of their most successful grounds in terms of results is not on the Ashes rota this year, and would much prefer to be playing at Old Trafford rather than the untested surface at Cardiff, whose bid had financial help from the Welsh Assembly.

But after much lobbying, Lancashire chairman Michael Cairns says the ECB have told the club an 2013 Old Trafford Ashes Test is on the cards.

"They have given us a verbal, and as pretty well hard-nosed as they possibly can, commitment that we will have the Ashes Test in 2013," he said.

"And we will try and get this hacked into concrete as soon as we can.

"The redevelopment project we presented to the board of the ECB went down very well and we have had some positive comments. As far as we can see, they understand how important this development is to cricket in the North West. If there is no cricket from Birmingham to Cumberland of any quality that would be a national disgrace."

Any Ashes Test, however, would seem to be dependent on the planned £70m redevelopment going ahead. It is part of a £200m sports-led regeneration of the whole area in partnership with Lancashire, Stretford High School, Ask Developers, Trafford Council and Tesco. It still needs to be rubber-stamped and, because of its size, is likely to be assessed by Whitehall.

And Cairns is urging North West cricket fans to do everything they can to help the club's plans.

"There is a really encouraging groundswell of support from Manchester, Salford, Media City, the Quays Association, North West Development, Sport England. It is extremely encouraging," said Cairns.

"But what we need to have is as much additional individual support we can get both from our membership and from the community of Manchester and the North West.

"Anything you can do, writing letters to your MP, for instance, to endorse just how important what we are trying to do here for the community, the regeneration of the area, for cricket, would be very much appreciated."

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/cricket/s/1113822_old_traffords_ashes_target

wandered into OT today, they've demolished the stand to the left of the pavillion so work is well and truely under way.

The OT weather conditions page includes a webcam (http://www.lccc.co.uk/weatherstation) pointed towards the pavillion, that shows the new stand construction.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3570/3654506362_b2ef7c5785.jpg?v=0

And today it also shows some about-to-get-soaked Take That fans.

Andrew

Images of the demolition and redevelopment can be found here: http://www.lccc.co.uk/index.php?p=59

They've ripped through one of the stands already
http://www.lccc.co.uk/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=60&g2_serialNumber=2

And started the rebuild as can be seen in these web cams:

http://www.lccc.co.uk/rebuild/cam.jpg

http://www.lccc.co.uk/weatherstation/webcam/currentlarge.jpg

Good to see on a day when the Ashes begins in Cardiff.

I'm not against new test grounds, but there needs to be a sensible and fair rotation system.

Relates to the fact that Tesco are partners in building the new cricket ground and scheme around the cricket ground


Tesco's Gorse Hill

Tonight's neighbourhood forum was a bit of a shock. It was arranged at short notice to discuss the cricket ground renewal. As such, residents were invited from Great Stone Road and Talbot Road nearest to the cricket ground. Gorse Hill residents from the opposite side of Chester Road will have received no notice of the meeting and clearly weren't aware of it. This was highly inappropriate.

Tesco's were at this meeting (unadvertised); and disclosed for the first time the sheer scale of their ambitions for the store on Chester Road. They want a store there that is even bigger than the one at Altrincham. At 140000 sq ft, it will be huge. They have had previous applications refused here for stores sized 88,000 sq ft, but rather than come back with a reduced plan, they've nearly doubled its size. Clearly they feel that the cricket ground development provides an opportunity for a sympathetic hearing. The cricket club makes no secret that it needs partners financially, but other than an easy passage, it's difficult to see what Tesco's gain from the cricket ground.

It's obvious that Gorse Hill needs to aware of the scale of this proposal and that this is going to be highly controversial.

http://gorsehill-labour.blogspot.com/

can’t find a thread for this in here – thanks to the manc forum for the pics:

Before:
http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/stadiums/old_trafford_cricket.jpg


After:
http://i44.************/28a1d7m.jpg
Detail:
http://www.propertyconfidential.com/images/20082309cricket2lg.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5188/lccc3jk1.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1678/lccc1sc4.jpg
http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/3445/lccc2nn1.jpg


Progress (phase one):
Demo:
http://www.lccc.co.uk/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=60&g2_serialNumber=2
Construction:
http://www.lccc.co.uk/weatherstation/webcam/currentlarge.jpg
http://www.lccc.co.uk/rebuild/cam.jpg
When Phase One's Complete:
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8862/lccc5rz6.jpg

Whats your thoughts on the development Nooie?

I'm not sure it looks good. Its moved away from a 'stand' feel, and has a city office look about it. My main issue with a lot of cricket stadium developments is, some look almost temporary and cheap. Almost just a stop-gap.

two words: wine gums.

Three more words: Bassetts or Maynards?

I don't understand the visuals, are they turning the wicket round 90 degrees? I don't mind the design but if they don't pull it off well it could look awful..

I got really excited looking at the plan view, but lost all that enthusiasm when I saw the artist's impressions, especially what they're planning to do with the pavilion. :(

i like it. I like it alot actually.

I'm sure I read some time ago about Trafford Town Hall being demolished as part of the Old Trafford redevelopment, but that doesn't make sense now I've seen where it is on Google Maps (some way away on the other side of Talbot Road).

What was all that about?

Three more words: Bassetts or Maynards?

maynards all the way.

ben, yep they're rotating the wicket: http://www.cricketworld.com/uk_county_cricket/lancashire/article/?aid=20329

I got really excited looking at the plan view, but lost all that enthusiasm when I saw the artist's impressions, especially what they're planning to do with the pavilion. :(

plus one. do we know how old the pavilion actually is? because google's not telling but it looks old, and turning an old historic centrepiece building into a glass box surrounded by wine gums just isn't cricket.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1143/540735337_b8061a8f1f_o.jpg

maynards superstadium.

Dreadful :ohno:

Has anyone seen any visuals of the opposite side of the ground? So far there are 4 new stands/buildings including the pavillion but whats happening on the opposite side of the ground (as currently there isn't much there either).

I think i need more pictures to make my mind up , if it will be a success or not.

I'm sure I read some time ago about Trafford Town Hall being demolished as part of the Old Trafford redevelopment, but that doesn't make sense now I've seen where it is on Google Maps (some way away on the other side of Talbot Road).

What was all that about?

Wasn't it a car parking thing.

I like the others am a bit sad about Old Trafford, it's great ground and I've been several times but what is the point of demolishing stands and replacing them with car parks?

As for the new stands they are poor, I would like to see an increase in capacity by having more two tiered stands and the corporate hospitality boxes in between.

In Old Trafford's favour is the Metro Link station is getting rebuilt so it will always have the advantage of great transport links.

@ Zim Flyer. I know what you mean.

I'd also love to see more stands like this being built.

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7711/pfeimagem443.jpg

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3728/111xlarge08072008.jpg

The new stand at the Brit Oval should look good though.

http://www.britoval.com/sites/oval/files/imagecache/scale_crop_520x290/Hotel%20View.JPG

The main issue I have is what they're planning to do to the pavilion. I mean, just look at it. :ohno:

@ Zim Flyer. I know what you mean.

I'd also love to see more stands like this being built.

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7711/pfeimagem443.jpg

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3728/111xlarge08072008.jpg

The new stand at the Brit Oval should look good though.

http://www.britoval.com/sites/oval/files/imagecache/scale_crop_520x290/Hotel%20View.JPG

The main issue I have is what they're planning to do to the pavilion. I mean, just look at it. :ohno:

Whats up with the pavillion its probably the best pavillion in the UK..

Sorry, my comment was regarding the new pavilion at Old Trafford, not the one at the Oval.

@ Zim Flyer. I know what you mean.


exactly RMB, those are just type of stands Old Trafford should be building, it will give them an increase in capacity and the space for corporate hospitality and they look alot nicer than those red things they are constructing.

Those "red things" look way too Will Alsop for my liking :ohno:

plus one.do we know how old the pavilion actually is? because google's not telling but it looks old, and turning an old historic centrepiece building into a glass box surrounded by wine gums just isn't cricket.

Hopefully this helps.

In 1895 A.C.MacLaren made his monumental innings of 424 against Somerset at Taunton (still the record individual score for Lancashire) beating W.G.Grace's 344. Lancashire again were runners-up with Mold taking 192 wickets. Lancashire built a new Pavilion costing £10,000 which was opened during the season. It was designed by Muirhead who also designed the one at the Oval


http://www.lccc.co.uk/index.php?p=news&id=29

thanks RMB. aaaaaaaaaaaaaand they're sticking it in a glass box. why don't english heritage actually do their job for once, instead of obsessing over tall buildings (leave that to us)?

:gaah:

link to webcam of develpoment:

http://www.lccc.co.uk/weatherstation/

link to webcam of develpoment:

http://www.lccc.co.uk/weatherstation/

I wish you'd posted that yesterday - I wouldn't have rushed home from work to watch Somerset not playing there in the Twenty20 Cup quarter-final.

The Old Trafford pabillion is largely postwar anyhow, the extensions either side of it will not be missed.

Notice how there aren't any close-ups of the "redeveloped" pavilion in full - it's almost as though they're ashamed of it.

I know it's not the prettiest pavilion in the country at present, but if they're going to update it they ought to keep it pavilion-shaped or not bother at all...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ce/Brabourne.jpg/800px-Brabourne.jpg

It depends on what you define as pavillion shaped. If you mean Edwardian pavilion shaped then it's not going to happen but then the Edwardian part of the Old Trafford Pavillion will still be there, as much as it is now.

It would be better to build from scratch. My preferred option would be on the lines of Brabourne

Lancashire face crucial time in Ashes bid

Lancashire are confident of securing one of the Pakistan-Australia Test matches next year, but their ultimate aim is to bring Ashes cricket back to a redeveloped Old Trafford. The club has submitted its bid to the ECB for one of the neutral games in 2010 and has felt bullish about its chances since the series was announced with the strong Asian links in the area an advantage.

However, while hosting the Test next summer would be a significant boost the absence of an Ashes match this season is still hurting. When Lancashire learnt they wouldn't host Australia over five days it made them realise how seriously the venue needed redeveloping.

"Since Old Trafford first hosted international cricket we have only missed out on three Ashes Tests and one of them was 2009," said Jim Cumbes, the Lancashire chief executive. "There are no guarantees, the ECB can't give any but they have been very supportive. When the work is finished this will be a wonderful stadium. The bidding process for the Ashes in 2013 is probably 12 months away and when it comes around we feel we will be a strong position."

Building work is well underway in the first stage of an ambitious project to revive the ground that has fallen into disrepair in recent years. By 2012 they aim to have built new stands, a new joint media centre and players' pavilion and renovated the current pavilion. The permanent capacity will be 15,000, but temporary seating will bring it to 25,000. At the end of the 2010 season the square will also be turned to face north-south, which will avoid problems with the setting sun and provide an increased number of pitches...

The biggest stumbling block, however, could still be planning permission. The crux of the massive redevelopment is based on a partnership with Tesco, who will build a superstore a short distance from the ground and help finance the whole project which is expected to cost around £70million.

The next stage of the project is due to go before the planning committee in September and while the club is publicly confident it will pass, the plan could still be 'called in' by the government which would cause a severe delay and threaten the entire project. "That would be tough," admitted Michael Cairns, the Lancashire chairman. "Something would happen but not to this scale. It doesn't bear thinking about if there was an extensive delay on this process."

http://www.cricinfo.com/england/content/story/422734.html

Does anyone know what part of the project still needs planning permission?

Anyway watching the cricket there today, they've already built a significant amount of the stand to the left of the pavilion.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/__EnL4vlydrw/SpqXRlr5jcI/AAAAAAAABOw/9gRna01qxIE/s640/currentlarge.jpg

After the farce of not protecting a run up last night, I think it pretty much justifies Old Trafford losing the test to Cardiff. Someone at Old Trafford needs a kick up the backside over this. I really felt sorry for the crowd last night.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Seibu_Dome_September-10_2007-1.jpg
What Old Trafford really needs

Very funny Isaac Newell imagine the cost of the roof!!!

From OT tram station earlier today...

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/7962/20090905105336.th.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20090905105336.jpg)

A few good points. Ahttp://wisdencricketer.com/item.php?parent_id=12&child_id=2&item_id=590

A few good points. http://wisdencricketer.com/item.php?parent_id=12&child_id=2&item_id=590

A report on the LCCC/Old Trafford regeneration plan goes before executive next week, so might be getting an update on this soon.
EXECUTIVE MEETING
Date: Monday, 28th September 2009
...
4. LANCASHIRE COUNTY CRICKET CLUB – SPORTS LED REGENERATION
To consider a joint report of the Corporate Director, Prosperity, Planning and Development and the Director of Legal and Democratic Services.
http://www.trafford.gov.uk/cme/live/dynamic/DocMan2Document.asp?id=0&document_id=B552A26B-EC8F-44B5-907D-2C594280B45B

Coming along ok.

http://i36.************/20j20zm.jpg