New Calatrava Tower in Downtown New York

[JMGarcia]

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/03/03/nyregion/GLASS.184.2.650.jpg

Thinking Outside Box, Architect Comes Up With Cubes


By DAVID W. DUNLAP
Published: March 3, 2004 - New York Times

Fresh from causing a sensation with his avian design for the World Trade Center transportation hub, the architect and artist Santiago Calatrava is ready to make a second startling mark on the Lower Manhattan skyline with a residential tower unlike any New York has ever seen.

It would take the form of an offset stack of 45-foot glass cubes, a dozen in all, each intended to house only one or two families.

Resembling some of Mr. Calatrava's sculptures, but on a titanic scale of 835 feet, the tower would rise over the East River at South and Fletcher Streets, near the South Street Seaport and the Brooklyn Bridge. The developer, Frank J. Sciame, estimated its completion in 2006 or 2007.

It will be very expensive to build - just how expensive the developer will not say - and very expensive for prospective owners. But then again, Mr. Sciame said, "you only need between 12 and 24 interested parties in the entire world."

In an alternating pattern, four-story cubes would be cantilevered from a concrete core containing elevators, stairways, plumbing and electric lines. Alongside the cubes would be pairs of slender stabilizing spines, turning the entire composition into a gigantic truss. The top of one cube would serve as the terrace for the next cube up.

The cubes could be single dwellings of about 10,000 square feet, or divided. The building would also have an eight-story base that could house a museum or other cultural institution.

"We cannot say form follows function," Mr. Calatrava said yesterday by telephone from his home in Zurich. "In this case, function follows form. And it works."

The tower would replace a six-story red-brick building at 80 South Street, upland from the sailing ship Wavertree, that serves as the headquarters of Sciame Development and the F. J. Sciame Construction Company. While there is no guarantee that the tower will be built, both Mr. Sciame and Mr. Calatrava have established reputations for completing unusual projects.

Though it would be among the tallest apartment towers in New York, 80 South Street would have only 175,000 square feet of space. Mr. Sciame said he was trying to configure it so that it could be built "as of right"; that is, within existing zoning regulations and without the need for discretionary city approvals and a full public land-use review.

So far, the project has been embraced by some of those who have seen it.

"Santiago Calatrava's design concept for 80 South Street is one of the most unique and compelling this city has seen in decades," Amanda M. Burden, the director of the Department of City Planning, said in a statement yesterday. "It would add an extraordinary dimension to the East River skyline."

Carl Weisbrod, the president of the Alliance for Downtown New York, which oversees the Lower Manhattan business improvement district, said 80 South Street would be a boon to the East River waterfront - "an area that has not gotten as much attention as the Hudson" - and to the South Street Seaport Historic District, in part by drawing down some of the unused development rights generated by the small structures in the district.

Perhaps not every preservationist would agree that a structure reaching 1,000 feet at the tip of its mast would complement a nearby precinct of 19th-century countinghouses.

But Madelyn Wils, the chairwoman of the Lower Manhattan community board, said she did not think that the structure's height would be controversial particularly given its slenderness and transparency. "It's such an unusual building, it's worth taking a chance on," she said.

Mr. Calatrava, a Spanish citizen who is an artist as well as an architect and engineer, has explored the expression of the human body in sculptures of marble and ebony cubes supported by chromium-plated steel cables.

His relationship with Mr. Sciame began two years ago, when he asked for help in remodeling his Upper East Side townhouse. Mr. Sciame, a contractor and a developer, said he was impressed by Mr. Calatrava's sculptures and by his Turning Torso apartment tower, under construction in Malmo, Sweden. He invited Mr. Calatrava to the South Street site, where the architect found a place to explore the torso theme on a colossal scale. "New York is the place to make a statement like that," Mr. Calatrava said.

Though he has been a presence on the New York architectural scene since 1992, after he won a competition to complete the Cathedral Church of St. John the Divine, Mr. Calatrava's only finished work in the city is the Times Capsule of 2001, a sculptural time capsule commissioned by The New York Times, which stands outside the American Museum of Natural History.

With his two new projects, Mr. Calatrava has jumped to the forefront of architects involved in rebuilding Lower Manhattan. And he seems to feel at home.

"If I was not born in this lifetime in New York," he said yesterday, "certainly in a previous life, I was a New Yorker."

[bagel]

Be still my beating heart! How beautiful! How poetic! What a stunning addition to the skyline that would be!

Calatrava. I love your work.
:love: :master:

[crunch]

It's making me somewhat uneasy. I don't like it, especially not for NYC.

[bagel]

I think I'm uneasy too. But it's more like I'm uneasy because I'm not used to NY architecture being so fun. And it should be.

For Lower Manhattan, a Residential Stairway to the Sky
By HERBERT MUSCHAMP

Published: March 3, 2004

Santiago Calatrava has designed a skyscraper with the buoyancy of a child's balloon. The design takes me back to 1966 and the helium-filled Mylar "Silver Cloud" sculptures that Andy Warhol presented that year at Leo Castelli's gallery. The tower is effervescent, lighter than air. Yet its impact on the skyline is likely to be profound, not merely as an individual work of genius but as an example of what can be achieved when a city rediscovers the quality of delight.

This is the first residential building Mr. Calatrava has designed in the United States, but 80 South Street Tower, at Fletcher and South Streets in Lower Manhattan, is based on a series of sculptures that he began in the 1980's. For these studies in rhythm, Mr. Calatrava used a modular vocabulary of identically sized marble cubes. Wires hold them in suspension in various vertical and diagonal configurations. The basic concept is flexible. Though the South Street Tower is strictly vertical, the same technique could be used to cantilever a structure out over the water, say, at a 45-degree angle.

On South Street, 12 modular cubes, clad in glass, would be stacked into a tower of alternating solids and voids, cantilevered from either side of a central service core in a series of contrapuntal steps. Each cube measures 45 feet to a side and contains four floors of living space, at slightly more than 2,000 square feet per floor. The concrete core, a slender rectangle in plan, contains elevators, fire stairs and risers for plumbing and power. A metal armature attached to the outer sides of the cubes provides additional support.

This arrangement leaves the interiors of the cubes unencumbered by columns and plumbing. The modules can be configured to contain one to four apartments each, and are served by separate elevators. Each cube, except the highest, provides an outdoor terrace for the one above.

It would be a stairway-to-penthouse paradise, rising from a base of eight or nine stories. Frank J. Sciame Jr., the building's developer, said he hoped that he could attract a cultural institution to occupy the base, as if Mr. Calatrava's design were not enough of a cultural attraction on its own.

Eighty South Street Tower would be the most original skyscraper to go up in the United States in many years. It would restore New York to a place where innovative architecture is generated, not merely acquired. And as the vision of a private developer, the tower rebukes all the hollow claims of boldness and excitement our builders habitually assert.

I mention Warhol because of the atmosphere of freedom those ridiculous silver pillows created around them. They were a child's garden of existentialism - bits of nothingness, faintly stirring in the breeze of gallerygoer conversation. Still, there was a precision to them: Warhol would go in and adjust the little lead weights attached to the corners so that they would float in midair. And they were balanced, in the rear gallery, by the wallpaper with those silly pink cows.

How did it happen that 1966 suddenly appeared to be encapsulated by the fleeting whimsy of silver clouds and pink cows?

It seems that Mr. Calatrava has captured the imagination of New York. Hooray for us. As the warm reception that greeted his design for the World Trade Center transportation hub suggests, the city trusts him, to a degree it has seldom believed in any single architect in many years.

This response may have as much to do with Mr. Calatrava's character as with the formal properties of his designs. In a field overpopulated with blowhards, his evident humility stands out.

So does the apparent lack of irony. Though the work is eminently sophisticated in formal terms, the optimism it projects is disarmingly naïve. How dare an architect conjure these transcendent illusions for our disillusioned times! Does he believe this to be an age of faith, capable of building cathedrals?

Recently Mr. Calatrava has been reading Spinoza. You don't have to do likewise to make sense of his work. But for those seeking insight into its qualities, I strongly recommend Antonio Damasio's excellent book "Looking for Spinoza: Joy, Sorrow and the Feeling Brain."

Dr. Damasio, a neurologist, has achieved renown by challenging our lingering tendency to regard reason and emotion as polar opposites. Science suggests otherwise. Dr. Damasio, like Freud and Nietzsche, regards these faculties as necessary partners in a dialectic intent on freedom from debilitating habit.

The book will not sit well with those who think that architecture is an art of people-pleasing. Spinoza's scheme of things was undeniably elitist. Only those with disciplined and educated intellects, Dr. Damasio writes, could accumulate sufficient knowledge and reason to put their intuitions to constructive use. But this path toward freedom is accessible to all who would make the sacrifices it entails.

Eighty South Street Tower conveys the idea that an entire city can embark on such a path. That is the design's great gift. This idea is transmitted in the design's perfect balance between the familiar and the unexpected. We recognize the similarity of the individual glass cubes to International Style office towers of the mid-20th century. But we have never seen one of those towers dance. From certain angles, this building is all hips. Chicka-boom!

We cherish the skyscrapers of prewar New York partly because of their articulated tops and stepped silhouettes. Eighty South Street can be seen as a building made almost entirely out of tops. Or, because the design uses an industrial aesthetic, we can see the cubes as echoes of Manhattan's water towers, those great building tops that are not made for aesthetic contemplation. Thus Mr. Calatrava recaptures that once-vigorous exchange between our cultivated and vernacular traditions.

Every sports fan knows that it takes discipline as well as talent to play with the rules of the game. Architecture is no different. A city is never more fully human than when expertise - our own or someone else's - allows us access to ebullience, lightness and delight.

[Philip Cronin]

I think the rendering looks hideous, and the real thing would probably be worse.

[New Jack City]

I don't know if I really like the design that much (kind of mixed on it), but just the idea of an 800+ footer in Lower Manhattan is amazing, no matter what.

Look how dominating it is!

Here's a huge rendering:

http://www.80southstreettower.com/Image_large.jpg

Also, the official site:

http://www.80southstreettower.com/

Another rendering thanks to NYatNIGHT:

http://galleries.soaringtowers.org/albums/NYatKNIGHT/tower_2.jpg

[The Messiah]

This tower doesn't really fit into the skyline,it looks so much different then all the towers in lower manhatten.But i still think it's a cool project what should be build because of it's height and it's original design. :okay:

[Erik W]

It is certainly going to look different on the NY skyline, which is not a bad thing. Mr, Calatrava has a similar tower under construction in Malmö, Sweden. In that case, the cubes are actually turning around with a "spine" in the back. Hence the name "Turning Torso".

http://medlem.spray.se/rsabet/ttinday.jpg
Construction site

http://www.aftonbladet.se/bostad/0403/02/torsomontage.jpg
Construction with photomontage on top

[Ed007Toronto]

Fantastic. You New Yorkers should thank your lucky stars. Almost every week there seems to be another great project to follow.

[GVNY]

I want it built. What a wonderful project it is. I could care less how it fits in the "skyline". By the way, new york doesn't have a skyline, but a huge blob of skyscrapers.

[Mr Man]

Very Cool! I really like it!!

[New Jack City]

Downtown Express

Calatrava, Sciame propose tower sculpture for the Seaport

By Josh Rogers

Architect Santiago Calatrava, who wowed many Downtowners with his design for the World Trade Center train station when it was unveiled in January, may be on his way to doing the same with his proposed 835-foot slender tower design in the Seaport announced on Wednesday.

The residential design described as “townhouses in the sky” received favorable reviews from some local residents who have opposed other large-scale projects in the neighborhood.

“I think it’s great,” said Barbara Marks, an architect and Seaport resident who was one of the leaders in the successful fight to change the zoning to prohibit tall buildings in the South Street Seaport Historic District. “It looks like a good design —it’s very creative. It is such a sliver that it’s not going to have a great impact on light and air…. Sometimes good design trumps other concerns.”

The building at 80 South St. is at the corner of Fletcher St. and is just outside the historic district. It is headquarters to F.J. Sciame Construction and Sciame Development, which has hired Calatrava to build the tower.

Frank Sciame, C.E.O of both firms, said construction will be expensive and complicated, but “that’s fun. That makes it interesting.” News of the project was first published in The New York Times.

The base of the building will have a museum or cultural center and a restaurant. Above the base will be 12 cubed-shaped glass townhouses attached to a central core. The cubes would be 45 feet on each side.

Sciame said that once built, the structure would be very steady, but construction would be a delicate process as each cube is attached.

“The building is classic in terms of a truss stabilizing the structure, but as you build it the cubes cantilever over the truss and it stabilizes itself as it goes,” he said.

He would not say how expensive it would be, but he said within the next few weeks he plans to apply for tax-free Liberty Bonds to pay for at least the cultural-restaurant base of the building. The townhouses, which are expected to draw top-dollar, are likely to be sold as condos. The federal bond program was set up after the Sept. 11 attacks to help Lower Manhattan recover economically. Liberty Bond residential projects are generally not allowed for condos so Sciame may not get the bonds for the entire structure unless he changes it to rental.

Bettina Damiani of Good Jobs New York, one of the organizations that has opposed many Liberty Bond projects because they have not been targeted for affordable housing, said it sounded like this would be another poor use of Liberty Bonds. She said even if it’s used to build a museum, retail or a restaurant, it would not lead to a lot of quality jobs. “What kind of jobs are going to be created out of this,” she asked. “It is going to be $5.15 an hour jobs,” she said. “Public subsidies to spur economic development need to go to a pubic benefit.”

Sciame said a significant building such as this would become a part of Downtown’s rebirth. In 2000, Sciame bought air rights from the historic district buildings. At the time, the Guggenheim was planning a museum nearby by another renowned architect, Frank Gehry. Sciame said he had discussions with Gehry about designing a building at South St., but it did not progress further. He met Calatrava two years ago, when the architect worked on a redesign of Sciame’s Park Ave. townhouse.

“In getting to know him, I became inspired by the man and his work,” said Sciame. He said when Calatrava saw how close the site was to the Brooklyn Bridge, he became excited.

“He loved the view of the Brooklyn Bridge, the Verrazano Bridge – he loves bridges so much,” sad Sciame.

Calatrava, who is also an artist an engineer, was in Europe and could not be reached for comment.

Sciame said Calatrava did 350 watercolor paintings that evolved from the artist’s previous sculptures to the current building design.

The core of the building will have the elevators and plumbing. Each townhouse, which may be divided in two, could have internal elevators as well. The cube roofs would also serve as terraces with river views.

Sciame said the restaurant would have a roof top garden area which would be about 100 feet above the street. The cultural space would be about 60,000 to 80,000 square feet of space.

The building will be 175,00 square feet and since it is so narrow, it has a high floor area ratio, 21.6. Sciame said with his additional air rights, he thinks he’ll be able to build without getting any sort of zoning variance.

It will take about 18 months to build and after saying he would start in 2005, Sciame immediately amended that to 2006. “I don’t want to put too much pressure on myself I have enough of that from clients,” he said.

His construction firm has been involved in numerous well-known projects. In Lower Manhattan, Sciame Construction has done the extension to Museum of Jewish Heritage and the Millennium High School at 75 Broad St., which was converted from offices in about two months. Sciame is also part of the development team which is restoring a series of historic Seaport buildings on Front St.

Gary Fagin, another longtime resident who has fought to preserve the area, said there was much to be positive about the new structure although he did have some concerns about whether super wealthy people would be interested in living in the neighborhood for many years.

He also wanted to make sure the cobbled stones on Fletcher St., which is not in the historic district, remain. Fagin said unlike what are commonly called cobblestones or Belgian blocks, the cobbled stones on Fletcher were individually hammered into the ground and have a different shape than most Belgian blocks.

As for the Calatrava building, Fagin said he was pleased that much of the remaining air rights would be used on this project.

“It’s going to take care of lot of the air rights threat are still hanging out there,” he said. “I like something with an iconographic texture especially since it is outside the district. It’ll look like it’s from the 21st century and it’ll make an interesting contrast to all of the 18th and 19th century buildings in the district.”

http://downtownexpress.com/de_43/design.jpg

[New Jack City]

Renderings from Calatrava's website:

http://www.calatrava.com/slides/south_street_tower_05.jpg

http://www.calatrava.com/slides/south_street_tower_01.jpg

http://www.calatrava.com/slides/south_street_tower_03.jpg

http://www.calatrava.com/slides/south_street_tower_04.jpg

[Dennis]

:eek: A-M-A-Z-I-N-G :eek:

[phxmania2001]

What... the hell... is that? :moods:

[Ace]

Fabulous Tower :applause:

Because this Tower is so different to The other's in The NY-Skyline, They have to build It! Every 'Self-Respecting' 'Highrise City' only can pray for a Tower like this one.

[New Jack City]

Here's some more pics I found from the official tower's website...

http://www.80southstreettower.com/images/tower_left.jpg

http://www.80southstreettower.com/images/2bw.jpg
East River skyline photomontage

Posted before but bigger here:

http://www.80southstreettower.com/images/1c.jpg

[james2390]

That better get built!!

[RafflesCity]

Funky! Let the skyline have some fun!

[New Jack City]

A newsday article had a long article on Calatrava and a part about the tower, here's that part:

Newsday

80 South St.

Within a few years, it was Sciame who was hiring Calatrava and offering a tight parcel of land near the South Street Seaport for one of the architect's most startling experiments: an 835-foot tower of cubes reminiscent of the sculptures in his living room. The condominium at 80 South St. will be an alternating stack of four-story town houses clinging to a central core and fastened by spindles on either side. In direct violation of the Manhattan developer's first commandment - Thou Shalt Use Every Inch - much of the tower consists of empty space.

If it ever gets built, 80 South St. will engrave itself onto the Manhattan skyline and become an instant landmark. It must be an awesome thing to see one's ideas dominate a landscape in perpetuity that way, but the architect demurs.

"This is a profession you have to approach with a lot of humility," he says. "These works mostly bring honor to those who commissioned them and to those who built them with their hands. I see these works with a certain distance, because they're not mine anymore, they belong to the people who use them.

"The best is to go into a train station that I've built and buy a ticket. The guy in the ticket booth might recognize me, which is a marvelous feeling, but it might be that he doesn't and I go in like any other passenger, except that I enter with a critical eye, looking to see how it's held up. When I use the train station in Zurich, I look at it with the perspective of 20 years since we began.

"I can say that it's aging with dignity."

From: http://www.nynewsday.com/entertainment/ny-p2two3860694jun22,0,4031073.story?coll=nyc-enthome-headlines

[7 World Trade]

even though im not big with crazy sculpture buildings like this one, i think nyc can use some diversion in its skyline. but calatrava's got the wrong site for this sculpture. if he wants to build this, he might as well build it in yorkville (or anywhere north of 72nd street and east of park avenue, where it won't screw up nyc's skyline). but i think it's senseless to build it in downtown. i don't think the wall street environs leaves enough room for some crazy project like this, and it will basically steal attention from every single skyscraper in downtown manhattan (even the wtc for sure) with its bizarre architecture. and it's not right for bizarre futurist skyscrapers to be built near historic areas such as the south street seaport.

this building's one of those skyscrapers that looks better alone than with other buildings in its surroundings.

[New Jack City]

Oyster Bay Enterprise Pilot

Muttontown Man Builds Townhouses in the Sky
Frank Sciame Plans First

FRIDAY July 23, 2004

Calatrava-Designed Residential Tower in U.S.

F. J. Sciame Construction Co., Inc., the builder of choice for many of New York City's highly designed and technically sophisticated projects, and renowned Spanish architect and engineer Santiago Calatrava announced plans on May 3 for a new, visually striking, 835-foot-tall residential tower to be developed on the East River waterfront, just blocks from the World Trade Center site. Mr. Sciame is a resident of Muttontown.

Inspired by Mr. Calatrava's own works of sculpture and based on his formidable knowledge of structural engineering, the slender, soaring tower will be the architect's first residential project in the US. At present, the building is named after its address, 80 South Street Tower.

"The tower's breathtakingly unconventional design is expected to make the building another symbol of downtown Manhattan's resolute, indomitable spirit of recovery and resurgence," said Muttontown resident Frank Sciame, CEO of F.J. Sciame Construction Co., and its development arm, Sciame Development, Inc.

John Evans, vice president of Sciame Development, added, "This tower represents an opportunity to live in a work of art. We're confident that a building designed by Santiago Calatrava with only 12 exclusive townhouses in the sky will generate global interest."

Mr. Calatrava said, "I feel very fortunate to have been asked to design a tower for New York City, which is the home of the skyscraper, and to do so on such a beautiful and dramatic site. Frank Sciame has shown his determination to create an exceptional work of architecture for New York. I am grateful for the trust he has placed in me."

The tower's residences, described as "Townhouses in the Sky," will consist of modular, 45-foot cubes. Twelve cubes, each containing four floors, will be cantilevered from, and stacked along, the tower's vertical axis. The tower's base is envisioned as the new home for a cultural or other institutional user.

Mr. Sciame said, "As a result of the leadership and vision of Governor Pataki and Mayor Bloomberg, I firmly believe that over the next decade Lower Manhattan will increasingly find itself at the City's emotional heart and quickly emerge as New York's most dynamic neighborhood. This tower is an affirmation that the bold dreams of the public sector have engendered bold dreams in the private sector. We are proud to make an investment in downtown and visionary architecture."

The tower will contain 175,000 square feet of public cultural and private living space. As envisioned by the architect, each of the townhouse cubes may contain its own individual elevator. Original plans call for two-story living rooms, but Mr. Calatrava said that he would be willing to design interior spaces according to the new residents' requirements.

Fronting each cube's exterior, an expansive terrace garden will be formed by the roof of the cube directly below it. Mr. Sciame said, "This terrace will generate the visual effect of having, literally, a townhouse in the sky. If one wanted even more of a townhouse feeling, the design could incorporate a grand exterior stair leading from the apartment's terrace to an entrance at the cube's first level."

The design of 80 South Street Tower evolved from a theme that Mr. Calatrava began investigating some 20 years ago through a series of sculptures, in which marble cubes are stacked or suspended in space, held in place by taut wires. Mr. Calatrava has varied the number of cubes and their arrangement, creating different sculptural expressions out of the same basic elements. Watercolor drawings of the human body have also contributed to the series. Mr. Calatrava's studies of a turning torso yielded a sculpture in which marble cubes spiral around a steel support; and this sculpture gave rise to a design for a high-rise apartment tower in Malmö, Sweden, scheduled for completion in summer 2005. The design of 80 South Street Tower is a new idea within this theme. Twelve glazed cubes are cantilevered in ladder-like steps up the building's slender vertical core. The core and a pair of slim vertical spines stabilize the structure.

Carl Weisbrod, president of the Alliance for Downtown New York, Inc., said, "Downtown has the richest collection of architecturally distinctive structures of any place in our country. Frank Sciame's and Santiago Calatrava's exciting and dramatic building will immediately become one of the major icons on the city's skyline, but it will also be an important part-and a vivid example-of Downtown's emergence as the first great urban center of the 21st Century."

Madelyn Wils, chairperson of Community Board 1, commented, "Those of us who are advocates for Lower Manhattan have called repeatedly for residential use, cultural amenities, and exciting and beautiful design. This building does it all."

The Developer

Frank Sciame has a 28-year history as one of New York's most prestigious construction management and development companies. The firm has completed several high-profile construction projects in downtown Manhattan including the award-winning Seamen's Church Institute, Millennium High School and The Museum of Jewish Heritage. The firm is in pre-construction for the New Museum of Contemporary Art, a new Academic building at Cooper Union, and The Museum of Arts and Design. Current projects under construction include Sarah Lawrence Heimbold Visual Arts Center, Thurgood Marshall Academy, and the Pierpont Morgan Library. The firm is especially noted for its collaborative work with some of the world's most famous architects. Sciame Development has completed a number of restoration projects in the South Street Seaport Historic District including 247 Water Street, The Captain Rose House and is currently re-vitalizing Historic Front Street utilizing $46 million in Liberty Bond financing. For more information visit www.FJSciame.com

The Designer

Architect, engineer and artist Santiago Calatrava founded the firm of Santiago Calatrava S.A. in 1986. The firm, which currently maintains offices in Zurich, Paris, and Valencia, is known for projects that often entail major urban interventions and landscape development, such as museums, opera houses and concert halls, sports facilities, bridges, transportation projects, municipal service facilities and retail/commercial developments. Calatrava's first project in the United States, the extension to the Milwaukee Art Museum, was completed in 2001 to worldwide acclaim. Current projects include New York City's World Trade Center Transportation Hub (whose design was unveiled in January 2004); the Athens Olympic Sports Complex (designed for the 2004 Summer Games); Symphony Center (the new home of the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra); and new bridges for Haarlemmermeer, The Netherlands; Petah Tikvah, Israel; Jerusalem, Israel; Redding, California; Dallas, Texas; and the Grand Canal in Venice. For more information visit www.80SouthStreetTower on the Internet.

[jeremy stephens]

i love that building and the dominance but not sure if it would fit good in the skyline.its very tall though thats a good thing lower manhattan nedds taller dominant buildings besides the freedom tower.

[GVNY]

If we were too worried if a skyscraper would fit a skyline, a skyline would not grow.

[7 World Trade]

yeah, i agree with you gvny, but how often will you see a skyscraper that bizarre? besides, that thing is right next to a historical site in downtown manhattan. building it is like building a tower over the grand central terminal- it does not do justice to its surroundings.

of course, if calatrava is willing to change the design so it can suit the site, i won't hesitate to accept it. but the building won't work in its current state.

[giergel]

I hope they never build that hidious building!

[Steeltrees]

I love Calatrava, but I'm thinking that this design just wouldn't fit NYC too well. His shorter buildings are downright amazing, and so is the Alamillo Bridge in Sevilla, Spain.

[Islander]

I can't believe people say it won't fit into NY's skyline, when lower Manhattan is home to every size, shape, color, and style of skyscrapers. The more unique, the better it compliments everything else. Think about it, downtown Manhattan is dominated by a 792-foot neo-gothic, a couple of 800-foot art decos, and many modern and postmodern buildings. The new WTC and this Calatrava tower are the most unique skyscraper designs I've seen in a long time, and they're only going to further diversify the most diverse skyline you can find. And that's a GOOD thing.

[jeremy stephens]

Goh lee!!!!!!!!! yall are so ungratefull first ur mad because they arent building enough tall buildings no that the are building the WTCand the 80 south street tower yall r talking about it wont fit in the skyline do yall want new york to stay with the same kind of buildings or dont u want to let the skyline grow and diversify it.face it, new york is not going to be the same new york we had 3 years ago its going to get even better and change and when they get south street and the new WTC built yall are going to love it even u save the WTC. just wait and see

[SJM]

Great tower design! Keep up the good work Calatrava
http://www.80southstreettower.com/images/1c.jpg
I especially love this pic.

[Gendo]

I think I would be afraid to live in something that skinny and tall, not to mention it's kind of ugly (although renders don't always look the same as the actual building). One good earthquake or hurricane seems like it would topple this tower.

Maybe if he spiraled the boxes, it would look better.

[FerrariEnzo]

Quote:Goh lee!!!!!!!!!

Are you from the South?

[7 World Trade]

yeah, he appears to be an atlantan

[Zuelas]

I'm not a fan of crazy modern style but u can't help but say "wow". What kind of bldgs do u think will be built 100 years from now? They'll probably resemble this bldg more than those that exist now. It's ahead of its time- Good for NYC!
I hope that the NYC skyline won't become stagnant. Some could say it's no longer the best skyline in the world. Building forward-thinking structures like this will put it right back up there. Hot!

[Flatiron]

I hate to say it, but I hope this bulding is not built--not on this location. It would be fine further inland or uptown.

[Ellatur]

it does not fit in with the historical site and stuff

[Tazmaniadevil]

If you build it, they will come.
Most odd looking architecture initially meets mass disapproval, but the greatest buildings in the world often started with little public acceptance and are now regarded as masterpieces or icons ( look at the Eiffel Tower or Gehry's Museum in Bilbao, Spain ). I don't know if I like the design either, but it sure will stick out!

[giergel]

It just doesn't fit in the skyline and it's ugly as hell. This fits into the HK skyline!

[nygirl]

I actually like this one, im not afraid of the change, i think if this one goes up, we would be able to see historic and futuristic really coexist, and imagine the future guys, it isnt going to stay the way it is now, ny is going to keep moving into the 21st century with new designs.

[FerrariEnzo]

Quote:yeah, he appears to be an atlantan

I wounder how many teeth.

BTW, I love this building.

[Trances]

no way this is real

[New Jack City]

no way this is real

Of course it's real, excerpt from the NY Times "The New New York Skyline" says...

The tower, which may be approved by the city planning department later this month, would be anchored by an 835-foot-tall concrete core, with 12 four-story cubes cantilevered off its sides, each of which would house a single 10,000-square-foot apartment.

[Trances]

i know just seems so unreal thats all

[vid]

You should see some of Calatravas work. It really is unreal! But real. Turning Torso in Malmo is one of my favorites from him. He also designed the new Transit Hub for the new WTC.

[Icanseeformiles]

New Hong Yorkong.

[nygirl]

Nahhh i think well call this one a new yorker pls.

[STR]

I didn't care for this one at first, but this one has grown on me. I think it will fit in.

[johnbeton]

that's a great tower!! Think about it, if people in the year 1830 (just an example), refused to allow "modern buildings" in Manhattan, the Manhattan skyline would still consist out of farms. Face it, Architecture changes, and the more it changes, the more interesting it gets. And that NY gets this tower should be considered as a gift, it'll be a true landmark.

*And I'm an art deco lover myself (but you just can't go on building art deco towers for the next thousand years, and at least this is waaaay better than concrete box number 256 in Manhattan)

[Ellatur]

so when will it start being built?

[Gulcrapek]

It has a permit now. Soon.

[Jase Calvin]

It's a great design. It will add to the diversity of architectural styles NYC already has.

[LeCom]

calavatra's the man

[New Jack City]

Apartment views:

http://enr.construction.com/images/2004/040913-25.jpg

http://www.archpaper.com/images/CubeFacadeRiver.jpg

Also, an article in this week's Downtown Express mentioned the tower, here's just that portion of the article...

Sciame Development expects to begin construction on the Calatrava “Townhouses in the Sky” project in 2005 at 80 South St., Sciame’s latest headquarters.

The upscale tower, designed by Calatrava, may well be a barometer of just what the real estate market will bear in the South Street Seaport area.

It’s the Seaport’s first attempt at a luxury residence.

“The Calatrava project says, look, Downtown is one of New York’s most dynamic neighborhoods, and because of that, projects like this are justified,” Evans said.

Developers hope to rake in $35 million for each of 10 cube-shaped townhouses stacked in the 835-foot high-rise, which also includes two retail spaces. They hope to capitalize on lovely views and spaces that can be tailored down to the smallest detail to suit any buyer’s tastes.

“We’re not actually selling real estate,” broker Ayesha Kahn said. “When you look at the building, you realize you’re buying a piece of art.”

Not all current residents of the Seaport are thrilled with the changes that are taking place in the neighborhood.

Joe Bradshaw moved into Southbridge Towers, a Mitchell-Lama rental building on the edge of the Seaport, in 1973 after he was released from his tour of duty in Vietnam.

Bradshaw, whose wife is a painter who documents historic New York, said many of his neighbors want to cash in on the skyrocketing appreciation rates on Seaport properties by taking the 1,651-unit co-op private.

But that doesn’t sit well with him.

“A lot of things change, I guess for the better, but you lose a piece of history,” Bradshaw said. “I think the older residents feel a little scared that they may be pushed out.”

Buildings like the proposed tower at 80 South St. alarm residents, Bradshaw said.

“I think people feel like [the Seaport] has become a little too cosmopolitan, a little too mall-ish, a little too suburban,” Bradshaw said. “A lot of them are the Jewish, Italian, Irish older immigrants who grew up in the area, looking out for each others backs, and they feel like a lot of the camaraderie is lost.”

But Bradshaw is also an owner of PJ Kelly’s, a popular pub at 90 Fulton St., so he can’t be too down on plans to rejuvenate Lower Manhattan. He supports a currently unfunded city-Lower Manhatan Deveolopment Corporation initiative to upgrade Fulton St., the primary artery into the Seaport, into a major east-west corridor in Lower Manhattan.

“I think it’s good for the area,” he said.

[palindrome]

Wow thats wild!

[Vlad the Great]

This is incredible...

[Patrick Highrise]

this will be insane and what a location for a big residential tower! Looking at downtown, midtown, the bridges and so on....man oh man! :omg: :)

[New Jack City]

It's official, this one will top out 1000+ feet including the spire. I e-mailed the Sciame development team, here's the response...

Hello, I would be happy to answer your questions regarding this project.
It is very exciting to be involved in it. I also grew up in New York
City and am especially honored to be a part of a building that will
change the Manhattan skyline. The building will be 826 feet tall. With
the spire it will be 1123 feet tall. It will be the sixth tallest
building in Manhattan. It will be the 74th tallest building in the
world. Of the twelve "cubes", ten of them will be residential
townhouses approximately 10,336 gross square feet each. Each has a
private front garden as well. The lower two "cubes" will be commercial
as well as the eight-storey base building. Let me know if you have any
other questions.

Mark R. Ahlman
Director of Marketing
80 South Street
New York, NY 10038
212-709-2634
marketing@80SouthStreet.net

[Ellatur]

so one block is one house?

[STR]

"It will be the 74th tallest building in the world."

Where the heck fo they get that number from? If even half the projects now proposed go through, at 1,120ft*, this thing will still be in the top 50*.

*Note this inlcudes spires, which as we all know, DON'T COUNT.

[lammius]

I wish the thing were taller than the bloody freedom tower

[Vlad the Great]

Exactly STR.

The ranking of 74th tallest in the world is most definetely to the roof. To the spire, it should be able to crack top twenty, possibly even 15.

Well I'll change the height in the projects thread to 1123 feet tall. Wow what great news this is.

[LeCom]

Apartment views:

http://enr.construction.com/images/2004/040913-25.jpg

http://www.archpaper.com/images/CubeFacadeRiver.jpg

Also, an article in this week's Downtown Express mentioned the tower, here's just that portion of the article...
Droooool...

[LeCom]

It's official, this one will top out 1000+ feet including the spire. I e-mailed the Sciame development team, here's the response...
Congrats on getting the response. Those people in development companies often ignore non-business related emails like that.

[roadtomadrid]

tenerife opera house (canary islands)
http://www.arquitectura.com/arquitectura/inter/perfiles/calatrava/tenerife/051.jpg
http://www.arquitectura.com/arquitectura/inter/perfiles/calatrava/tenerife/040.jpg

city of arts in valencia
http://www.elalmanaque.com/turismo/ciudad_artes/images/CAC-52DP.JPG
http://www.cac.es/zonadescarga/galeria/Cac-254dig_JFT.jpg
l´hemisferic (imax)
http://www.cac.es/zonadescarga/galeria/H-109dp.jpg
http://www.cac.es/zonadescarga/galeria/Cac-231dig_JFT.jpg
museum of sciences
http://www.cac.es/zonadescarga/galeria/244_4500_JFT.jpg
l´oceanografic
http://www.cac.es/zonadescarga/galeria/223_2337_JFT.jpg
l´umbracle
http://www.cac.es/zonadescarga/galeria/Act-1878dig_JFT.jpg
palau de les arts (under construction)
http://www.cac.es/zonadescarga/galeria/246_4641_JFT.jpg
http://www.cac.es/zonadescarga/galeria/233_3398_JFTR.jpg

calatrava twin towers in Valencia
http://webs.ono.com/ferverca/ssc/DSC02634.JPG

calatrava monument in Madrid, Castilla Place (120 m)
http://www.canariasahora.com/img/fotos/21102004232146041021_hoy.jpg
:)

[Ellatur]

these buildings are absolutely amazing

[FerrariEnzo]

http://soko.blogs.com/noodles_and_cottagecheese/images/2004_01_transhub3.jpg

[FerrariEnzo]

http://www.panynj.gov/images_2004/hub_rendering.jpg

[Ellatur]

are those two renderings the same thing?

[New Jack City]

are those two renderings the same thing?

Yup, same project, that's Calatrava's WTC transit hub:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=52780

[EastSider]

Calatrava's First Project in the US, the Milwaukee Art Mueseum Expansion.
http://www.jbpf.org/images/art_museum.jpg
http://www.city-data.com/cpic/ufiles1672.jpg
http://www.svinicki.net/xmas02/images/10%20Milwaukee%20Art%20Museum.jpg
http://a.focus.de/D/DR/DRB/DRB36/PICS/GALERIE/7/1.jpg

[roadtomadrid]

I am charmed with Calatrava.
It is a rumor that in Madrid he will construct a tower. For the present time only we have the project of one tower-monument of 120 meters.

[Ellatur]

how old is calatrava?

[FerrariEnzo]

48-58 is my guess.

[LeCom]

Calatrava kicks ass. Could even kick Gehry's and Pelli's, probably.

[GVNY]

NY POST

SEAPORT SKY CUBES GET OK

By LOIS WEISS


http://www.nypost.com/photos/biz02092005036.jpg

SEAPORT STUNNER: Santiago Calatrava's $35 million townhouse cleared a big hurdle, winning an approval from the New York City Department of Buildings.

February 9, 2005

THE construction of Santiago Calatrava's $35 million townhome cubes in the sky has received a "go" from the New York City Department of Buildings.

We could almost hear the wood creaking at 80 Front St. as developer Frank Sciame jumped for joy at the news.

Sciame's eponymous construction company owns and uses the current building for its own offices.

This project, he said, will redefine residential living.

"The price reflects both design and quality," Sciame said, "and it will be the most expensive residential tower in the city."

Along with a concrete core and three elevators serving the 10 townhomes and two lower commercial units, each glass and stainless-steel cube will have its own internal elevator.
The design calls for one cube's roof to become the outdoor garden for the cube above.

An eight-story, 60,000 square-foot base will end up with a museum or other boutique arts attraction, while the commercial units are expected to be purchased by upscale office users — perhaps a law firm or hedge fund.

The 12th cube tops out at 835 feet while an antenna will bring the entire structure to 1,000 feet. "It's both functional and aesthetic," Sciame said of the antenna. For stability, concrete piles are to be driven 190 feet into bedrock.

Peter Claman of Schuman Lichtenstein Claman Efron acted as local architect to ensure Calatrava's unique spin on skyscraper living would pass the stringent city code.

Sciame's construction firm helped construct Calatrava's own city townhouse and once he was hooked into the South Street Seaport development, Calatrava "took it to another level," Sciame said.

"He took his entire structural engineering ability and architecture and arts background to design these."

Sciame, who hopes to start signing sales contracts by April after state approvals are obtained for the initial offering plan, said the firm has had local and international interest.

The company is also working with Adam Foster at CB Richard Ellis to buy or rent an "interesting" downtown headquarters of 20,000 to 30,000 square feet. "We want to remain downtown," Sciame added.


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/39575736/original.jpg

[GVNY]

Is this great news or what!

[fargo2nyc]

So how much do you think apartments will run for in that thing.....

[3tmk]

good news... I wonder when will construction start?

[GVNY]

So how much do you think apartments will run for in that thing.....


35 million +.

[Dennis]

great news! :applause:

[Lucky 24]

Wow, it only costs $35 million for constructions? I guess it doesn't have much volume to it. Calatrava is by far my favorite architect and eagerly await watching this building go up.

His BCE atrium in Toronto is probably my favorite architectural work in this city:

http://images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/145/41155.jpg

[ReddAlert]

[QUOTE=savethewtc]Apartment views:

http://enr.construction.com/images/2004/040913-25.jpg

http://www.archpaper.com/images/CubeFacadeRiver.jpg

QUOTE]

so your whole wall looking outward is all glass!? Incredible...imagine living in a place like this--the view must be amazing. It almost must be kinda freaky...having a huge glass wall 1000s of feet above the ground. I kinda guess it would feel like you are living in the sky. I also heard that each apartment is supposed to have its own outdoor garden and patio?
Kind of reminds me of the Jetsons in a way...very sleek and futuristic.

[Ellatur]

edited
never mind :)

[scorpion]

each 'cube''s roof serves as the above unit's OUTDOOR garden-terrace...


:D

[Archiconnoisseur]

His BCE atrium in Toronto is probably my favorite architectural work in this city
Wow, that is beautiful.

[Patrick Highrise]

fantastic news that it has gotten an OK!! :okay: A stunning design! :cool:

[GVNY]

Wow, it only costs $35 million for constructions? I guess it doesn't have much volume to it. Calatrava is by far my favorite architect and eagerly await watching this building go up.

His BCE atrium in Toronto is probably my favorite architectural work in this city:

http://images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/145/41155.jpg

No, construction costs a lot more than 35 million. The lowest estimates for penthouse prices is 35 million dollars.

[Open Road]

Is there any new information about this project? Are they still looking for approval / permits etc.?

[Ellatur]

is it not already approved?

[The PhantoM]

is it not already approved?

don't hope so.

c'mon, the design sucks big time. Doesn't fit in NYC nor in any other city here on earth. It looks like a lost space ship that landed on the wrong spot. Probably took the wrong exit on its way to the moon :bash:

Let's count down its days before take off.

[lazar22b]

according to emporis, the building is approved.

[Open Road]

"It looks like a lost space ship that landed on the wrong spot. Probably took the wrong exit on its way to the moon

Let's count down its days before take off."

That's just about the funniest thing I've heard said about a building. :-P

[giergel]

But It's true, the building is ugly for NYC but a beauty for cities like Hong Kong, etc...
Let's hope they not build it! It would ruin the skyline of NYC for good!

[New Jack City]

Calatrava in NY...

NY Times

An Architect Embraces New York

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/04/23/arts/23calatrava.xlarge1.jpg
The Spanish architect Santiago Calatrava has two major New York projects in the works.

By ROBIN POGREBIN
Published: April 23, 2005

He got off to a slow start in New York. Though he won the 1992 competition to complete the Cathedral Church of St. John the Divine, financing problems stymied the project. In 1998, he was part of a team that lost a bid to build a new concourse and ticketing area for Pennsylvania Station within the General Post Office.

Now the Spanish architect Santiago Calatrava has two major New York City projects: the $2 billion transportation hub for ground zero and a residential tower comprising 12 cantilevered cubes on South Street, overlooking the East River. In October, his sculpture, watercolors, drawings and architectural designs are to be shown at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

"I have been seeking New York for many years," said Mr. Calatrava, who has made New York City his family's home base after 14 years of living in both Paris and Zurich. "I was looking without knowing it for a place like New York."

Mr. Calatrava has also recently become more ubiquitous worldwide. In February, he was awarded the American Institute of Architects' 2005 gold medal. That same month, he unveiled his design of curving concrete shells for the new Atlanta Symphony Center, the first dedicated concert hall in the 60-year history of the city's orchestra. In August, his twisting residential tower, Turning Torso, is to open in Malmo, Sweden. And he has designed three bridges to span the Trinity River in Dallas, with construction scheduled to start next year.

To be sure, he was already well known for the more than 30 bridges he has built, most recently the Sundial at Turtle Bay in Redding, Calif., and the James Joyce in Dublin. His latest public projects include the Olympic sports complex in Athens, the Lyon Airport railway station and an extension of the Milwaukee Art Museum.

But Mr. Calatrava's high-profile New York projects have cemented his celebrity status; Time magazine recently named him one of the 100 most influential people of 2005. His profile is certain to be heightened by the show at the Met, which rarely features architects in its galleries.

That show, to open Oct. 18 and run through Jan. 22, is organized by themes that run through both Mr. Calatrava's art and his architecture - stacked cubes, wings and bird images, waves, Cycladic forms, the eye. "Our point is to show the clear and fascinating relationship between his independent sculptures - exercises in pure form - and his subsequent buildings and bridges and works for which he's best known," said Gary Tinterow, the Met curator in charge of 19th-century modern and contemporary art.

Mr. Calatrava's series of cubed sculptures, made more than 20 years ago, turned out to be a template for his South Street building, due to break ground by the end of the year.

Frank J. Sciame, the tower's developer, said the idea for the building was born when he was helping Mr. Calatrava renovate his Upper East Side town house, which doubles as a private gallery. "Standing there in front of his sculpture, that's how this started," Mr. Sciame said. "He went off and did 350 watercolors."

Mr. Sciame said Mr. Calatrava came up with a range of images - some octagonal, others truncated - precisely the kind of flourishes that would make typically pragmatic developers cringe. "I didn't want to say anything," Mr. Sciame said, "but I was getting concerned because every time you turn a corner, it's more difficult."

But when Mr. Calatrava finally designed the building's core, it turned out to be classic construction, Mr. Sciame said - "one of the best, most stable structural elements you could use."

The success of Mr. Calatrava's New York projects so far, which have both received critical acclaim and are proceeding smoothly, seems partly attributable to his training as an engineer.

"It helps us immensely to have someone give us a solution that is workable from an engineering point of view, as opposed to just an architecturally beautiful feature," said Jerrold Dinkels, the engineering program manager on the ground zero project. "That really makes for a better process."

The transportation hub has proved perhaps the least controversial piece of architecture on the site - no small distinction, given how complicated the rebuilding of ground zero has been by various architectural conflicts.

"We think that he is the da Vinci of our time," said Joseph J. Seymour, the former executive director of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which is building the station. "He combines light and air and structural elegance with strength."

Mr. Calatrava, 53, was born in the town of Benimamet, Spain, near Valencia, and began his formal instruction in drawing and painting at the age of 8 at the Arts and Crafts School. In 1968, he enrolled in the Superior Technical School of Architecture in Valencia, where he earned a degree in architecture and took a postgraduate course in urbanism. In 1979, he earned a Ph.D. in civil engineering from the Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich.

Mr. Calatrava said he considered architecture "the greatest of all the arts" because it embraces the others - music, painting, sculpture. "I couldn't be an architect," he said, "without doing those things."

At the same time, Mr. Calatrava - who spends three to four hours of every day sculpturing, painting or drawing - said he considered himself more an artist than an architect. "My work as a sculptor, it's a very intimate thing," he said. "Drawing is among the most personal things you can do. It doesn't have any rhetoric or anything to tell. It's a dialogue between the art and yourself."

For Mr. Calatrava, the art is not an end in itself; he does not sell any of it and has participated in only a handful of exhibitions. Rather, it is a way of working out ideas in a variety of materials: brass, bronze, wood, marble. He concentrates on a series of similar pieces before moving on to another motif. "I try to develop families of sculpture," he said.

This process only reinforces his work as an architect, Mr. Calatrava said. "It's a similar approach," he said, "studying, trying to define things formally."

Mr. Calatrava said he did not make the sculptures as models for buildings, nor did he design the buildings to look like the sculptures. Rather, they both build on a theme, he said, comparing the process to Bach's. "It's like the 'Goldberg' Variations," he said. "You have the aria, then 30 variations, then the aria."

"This is why it is important for me to do sculpture," he added. "You discover a building."

Mr. Calatrava, who speaks seven languages, continues to maintain offices in Spain and Zurich, but closed his Paris office this year. His wife, Robertina Calatrava, is also his business manager. They have four children.

"I think New York doesn't need me, but I need New York," Mr. Calatrava said. "There is a tremendous perfume in the city. New York is a city of our time, unmistakably. This city is epic. The frenetic way, the movement of people, the temperament, the passion."

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/04/22/arts/23calatrava.large1.jpg
A residential tower on South Street.

[New Jack City]

Site which the tower will sit on:

http://www.pbase.com/archit_kderek2k3/image/42766799.jpg

Model pics thanks to Derek2k3:

http://www.pbase.com/archit_kderek2k3/image/42767015.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/archit_kderek2k3/image/42767013.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/archit_kderek2k3/image/42767012.jpg

[james2390]

Very cool idea.

[Ellatur]

we should buy a box and use it as ssc headquarters-NY

[james2390]

^Haha, agreed. That would be sweet. Then we could have a real skybar in it too.

[scorpion]

i'm moving in.

[james2390]

each box probably costs more than the tower, lol.

[Jay]

each box probably costs more than the tower, lol.



The penthouse costs twice as much as the tower.

[jimbo]

I was in NY all weekend and was staying down on Wall Street, fairly close to the site. The new Skyscraper Museum on West Street and Battery (under the Ritz Carlton hotel) has a large image of the project which stated construction was due to commence (before the end of 2005). I hope so, its an amazing structure, but seems a bit of a strange location.......the Financial District and South Street Seaport has a wide mix of office and tourist type sites, but it didn't strike me as a strongly residential based area (unlike TriBeCa Green etc which I thought was very cool). Still, the chap in the museum has said all of the 'townhouses' have been sold.

[MidtownGuy]

the City is moving on plans to develop the area along the East River with residential buildings, so the area will definitely be changing in the future. I love this design so much, words cannot express...... :)
it will be an instant new york icon.

[New York Yankee]

i love it!

[New Jack City]

Location map posted by Stern at SSP:

http://www.fjsciame.com/assets/images/Sciame_map.jpg

[Patrick Highrise]

ok then now i can form a better image for myself were it will be built!! Sitting at Pier 17 you will have a nice view of the tower u/c! and also when its completed! :cool:

[bagel]

I can't wait. Build it now.

[New Jack City]

Check out the new website...wow:

http://www.80southstreettower.com/

[hella good]

Great site! Fantastic views!

[jimbo]

Check out the new website...wow:

http://www.80southstreettower.com/

Have they actually started on site yet? I walked past the site in May, but there was nothing doing. Presume they need to sell all the living spaces first, which I thought they had done, but then why have a swanky website with sales details on it if all the units are sold? $29m, yikes, now that's alot of dough!

Is an absolutely mind blowing development. Love it!

[Ellatur]

nice site, but it sucks that they only show floorplans upon request

[james2390]

The penthouse costs twice as much as the tower.
Damn! I guess it's probably worth it considering the views.

[United-States-of-America]

Awesome! Very nice!

[Lili]

SQUARE DEAL DOWNTOWN

By BRADEN KEIL
________________________________________
DOWNTOWN CHIC: Rendition of apartments under construction south of the Brooklyn Bridge on the East River.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a137/ECdoesit/news09082005010a1.jpg

September 8, 2005 -- Some of Manhattan's most eye-popping high-rise apartments have hit the market — with the price tag for a penthouse at a whopping $50 million.
A planned building at 80 South St. — designed by Santiago Calatrava —is now selling 10 vertically stacked, four-story, townhouses.
Construction of the unusual cube-shaped residences will begin in March 2006, the building's developer, said.
Each residence will contain 10,000 square feet of living space. That means the penthouse will cost about $5,000 per square foot.
In Manhattan, the average price per square foot is about $970, while the average price of an apartment is approximately $1.2 million.
The cheapest townhouse on sale goes for $29 million. And the buyer is responsible for adding interior improvements, like a lap pool on the sprawling terrace.
The four-story cantilevered units feature grand living rooms with double-height ceilings, a four-to-six room option with six bathrooms, gourmet kitchen and private interior elevator.

The building's amenities will include private gardens, doormen, special security and concierge services. According to the sales brochure, the monthly combined carrying charge for maintenance and taxes ranges from $34,456 to $36,038.
"This is a place for those who want to live in a work of art," said high-end broker Dolly Lenz. "It should generate a lot of interest."
But others familiar with the project aren't so sure that those wealthy enough to afford it would want to live in an area teeming with tourists.
"There are no schools, parks or supermarkets. What [the developers] should hope for are 10 single Wall Street titans who want to live in 10,000 square feet of space," said one downtown broker.

Source: New York Post, September 8, 2005

[RBR]

It will really ruin the skyline i think, the next time someone wants to fly a plane into a building they better choose this one.

[NewYorkMantle]

It will really ruin the skyline i think, the next time someone wants to fly a plane into a building they better choose this one.
Never speak again.

[hella good]

yes RBR, that was out of order.

[GVNY]

It will really ruin the skyline i think, the next time someone wants to fly a plane into a building they better choose this one.

BAN

[spyguy]

Wow...

[RBR]

Okay sorry i was out of line, just upset about this building going up why can't they build this thing in HK where it belongs... ill take the old freedom tower over this anyday.

[giergel]

Will this actually go up? I also think that this doesn't fit into the classic skyline of New York.

[hella good]

yes its called modernisation...

like building swiss re in london.

[New Jack City]

Some financing issues...

NY Times

Will It Be Built?

By WILLIAM NEUMAN
Published: September 11, 2005

THE ultraluxury condo tower designed by the architect Santiago Calatrava for a site near the South Street Seaport has been heavily hyped and is being lavishly marketed - at prices ranging from $29 million to $59 million. But will it ever be built? Its 10 four-story cubic apartments went on sale last month, but the developer has yet to obtain financing to build the tower.

It is a move that is more Miami than Manhattan. Here, developers and brokers said, it has become common to sell apartments while a building is under construction. But it is virtually unheard of for the developer of a high-profile project to sell the apartments first and find a lender later. But in South Florida, bankers often insist that builders sell half or more of their units before they will commit money for a project.

The problem that the developer, Frank J. Sciame, faces is persuading a handful of phenomenally rich people to plunk down 25 percent deposits - with no guarantee that the building will ever go up. And with down payments starting at $7 million, that could be an obstacle.

"Who's going to put down 25 percent on a project that might never go ahead?" asked Aby Rosen, a developer who is currently involved in converting the Gramercy Park Hotel to condos.

Louise M. Sunshine, the chairwoman emeritus of the Corcoran Sunshine Marketing Group, could not think of another major project in Manhattan that had tried to use presales of apartments to secure financing. "In all my years I've never seen anything like that," she said.

"I think that buyers, when they're spending $30 million, question the developer's credibility," Ms. Sunshine said. "People aren't just rushing out to spend $30 million. People want to know who's behind it and that the developer has their financing."

Mr. Sciame, however, is confident he will find both buyers and bankers for the building, which he says will begin to rise at 80 South Street, near the South Street Seaport, next March, with completion set for September 2008. The building will be 55 stories tall, with the 10 luxury apartments, each with about 10,000 square feet, stacked as alternating cubes along a central core, much like the lobes on an automotive camshaft. The top cube is priced at $59 million. There are also two lower cubes for office space. The monthly common charges and taxes for the apartments start at $34,456.

The developer held a sales kickoff at Mr. Calatrava's Upper East Side town house on Wednesday. The previous weekend, he started an international ad campaign in Europe, Asia and the Middle East.

"Given Santiago's world-renowned reputation, we thought it was appropriate to go worldwide," Mr. Sciame said. "And there has been a lot of interest."

Mr. Sciame said he plans to sign up buyers for the condos and then come to terms with a lender on the construction financing.

"It is in our best interest to defer the final decision on the financing until we are in the best position we can be from the sell side," said John Golieb, another principal in the project, referring to the sale of the units. "The more units we have sold at the time we lock in our financing, the better the rate and the terms of the financing will be for us." He said that they had already found a lender who has agreed to provide a small portion of the financing, called a mezzanine loan, and that they were in contact with other lenders.

Mr. Golieb and Mr. Sciame said there was nothing unusual about the way they plan to finance the project.

Richard Bassuk, the president of the Singer & Bassuk Organization, a financial consultant to developers, said the strategy was unusual for Manhattan but may be suited to such a novel project. "This is really a bird of a different color," he said. "Let's see if it works."

Mr. Rosen, the Gramercy Park developer, praised Mr. Sciame for tackling an architecturally ambitious project and said that if Mr. Sciame can find buyers for about half the apartments a lender might be persuaded to come through with a loan. "One of the reasons it's difficult for him to get the financing is it's a very specific product," Mr. Rosen said. "If this would be regular duplexes and triplexes or less ambitious architecturally, he'd have a much easier time getting a construction loan."

The offering plan for the condos, which was accepted last month by the state attorney general's office, alerts buyers that "construction financing is not in place at this time" and warns that the project may not be built if the developer fails to get financing. In such a case, the plan says, any buyers who signed contracts would get their down payments back, with interest. According to the offering plan, the down payments will be held in escrow in savings accounts that were paying interest of 1.75 percent at the time the plan was written.

There is another wrinkle, however, to the way Mr. Sciame is carrying out his project: he sold the land for the building to another developer in March for $34.5 million. He said he had a contract to buy the land back from the new owner, an affiliate of the Queens-based developer Cord Meyer, but would not explain his reason for the transaction. "It was actually part of our overall financing plan for the project," Mr. Golieb said.

[spyguy]

Both of Calatrava's skyscrapers may be having their difficulties it seems.

[Dale]

Both of Calatrava's skyscrapers may be having their difficulties it seems.

What notable difficulty is Forham Spire having at the moment ? Sounds to me that things are going swimmingly for the Chicago project.

[spyguy]

^^I made that post before all this new information came out. Now I can say that at least one has a chance, if not both.

[Guest201]

Didnt I post some views from the website here a few weeks ago? Or someone else posted the ones I had? Please tell me if I am not allowed to post them.

[atlrvr]

I'm not really sure what the big issue is with this financing plan.....that's how condo towers are done in Charlotte.....The Vue, which will be the most ambitious project here requires 10% down at contract, and another 10% before construction, and the developer must sell at least 50% before construction starts......not to mention that if any project here doesn't get built the deposit is returned by no interest is paid.

I'm sure that they will find buyers.

[Tosco]

Renderings from Calatrava's website:

http://www.calatrava.com/slides/south_street_tower_05.jpg

http://www.calatrava.com/slides/south_street_tower_01.jpg

http://www.calatrava.com/slides/south_street_tower_03.jpg

http://www.calatrava.com/slides/south_street_tower_04.jpg

Looks cool!

When will it be finish?

[DonQui]

we do not know Tosco.

I hope that it does get built. We have already seen one great tower (i.e. the Freedom Tower) be ruined, I don't want another project to be.

[New Jack City]

TR Deal

October 2005 Issue

Lower Manhattan
80 South Street
Sales for the Santiago Calatrava- designed tower have started, with the penthouse in the 10-unit building going for $50 million – or about $5,000 a square foot. The building, slated to start going up in March, will have 10 vertically stacked, four-story townhouses, each with 10,000 square feet of living space. The cheapest townhouse is going for $29 million, plus five-figure monthly maintenance costs. However, published reports have speculated that developer Frank Sciame will have difficulty obtaining financing for such an architecturally ambitious project, leaving open the question of whether the tower will be built at all. I. Khan. Inc. is the exclusive marketing and sales agent. Contact: 212-709-2633.

[New Jack City]

Downtown Express

Calatrava tower construction on hold, seeking buyers

http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_131/calatrava.gif

Volume 18 • Issue 26 | November 11 - 17, 2005
By Daniel Wallace

The Manhattan developer Frank J. Sciame has adopted an inverted parody of the Field of Dreams motto for the construction of the proposed Calatrava residential tower on 80 South Street: if they come, build it.

The 835-foot tower, which would be the sixth-tallest building in Manhattan, was designed in 2003 by the Spanish architect Santiago Calatrava, who is known for his innovative Turning Torso tower in Sweden and his PATH terminal under construction at the World Trade Center site, amidst a buzz of frenzied excitement and approbation. But two years later, it is still uncertain whether the tower will actually be built.

“We’re in the marketing phase of the project right now,” said John Evans, vice president of real estate for Sciame Development Inc., at a recent Community Board 1 meeting. “We have to reach a certain level of sales to demonstrate to our lenders that there is a market for it.”

Evans said that Sciame approved a general offering plan in September and, since then, marketing has been going well. They hope to start construction in April 2006.

“But there’s a chance you won’t achieve the necessary sales, and the tower won’t be built?” asked a community board member.

“The short answer is, yes,” Evans said. “But marketing is going well, and it doesn’t look like that will happen.”

The Calatrava tower would replace the red-brick building at South and Fletcher Sts. that currently serves as the headquarters of Sciame Development and would rise over the East River near the South Street Seaport and the Brooklyn Bridge.

Some members of the community board had more praise for Sciame’s new construction and recent restoration of South Street Seaport Historic District buildings than the Calatrava tower, which they felt would look too futuristic next to the historic district.

In a staggered pattern, the tower consists of 12 four-story cubes that would be cantilevered from a concrete core containing three elevators (two passenger, one freight) and emergency stairways. Each cube would have its own elevator. And each cube would have a terrace on the roof of the unit below. Alongside the cubes two slender, stabilizing steel spines would rise as out-riggers.

The top 10 cubes are townhouses that cost between $29 million and $55 million a unit. The bottom two cubes are zoned for non-residential use. And for the base structure, Sciame is seeking a cultural tenant, perhaps a museum.

In response to a question, Evans said retail could be considered at ground level.

“That’s an option,” Evans said. “But we really want to find a cultural use for it. We view the base more as a good neighbor for the residents above.”

The residential entrance in the base building would be off Fletcher St. and the non-residential entrance off South St. Evans said Sciame is exploring the possibility of creating a 12-parking-space garage in the tower’s basement, which could be reached through a conveyor belt.

Although New York’s architectural community is highly accepting of the plan, some Downtown residents are leery. One resident of 85 South St., which touches the Sciame headquarters that will be torn down, expressed concern at the Community Board 1 meeting about the noise of construction, vibration, falling debris and the potential of road-closures.

“We’ll have a landmark safety program to deal with things like vibration,” Evans said. “We’re not going to harm adjacent buildings. And most likely, only Fletcher St. will be closed down.”

Evans said that the tower is an as-of-right building, which means that it complies with all relevant zoning laws and is not subject to public review, but that Sciame will gladly present a construction logistics plan once one is in place.

Some residents were concerned about the structural safely of the tower, the narrowness of it, questioning if it would sustain a hit from a small plane. But Evans noted that Calatrava is an engineer as well as an architect and a sculptor. His work is undergirded by a strong structural logic.

Evans said that construction will most likely take 30 months.

[Dale]

Sounds misleading to say the project is 'on hold'.

[vigo80]

Well its surely a bold project but I am not convinced it will look all that good in the skline of NYC - if it is built okay city but if it isn't then it is not much of a loss for NYC.
And to be honest, compared to Calatrava's other works this is not very convinving or beautiful.

[BellevueWolverine]

:eek: A-M-A-Z-I-N-G :eek:

Indeed it is. Very Unique.

[TalB]

Development afoot for Seaport area

by Lois Weiss

A modern towering building of cubes by noted architect Santiago Calatrava is just one of the many changes coming to the historical Seaport area.

The Calatrava building, a dramatic series of vertical townhome cubes, however, won't have true retail in its base.

Developer Frank Sciame says they are seeking museums, galleries, and/or a very high end boutique hotel for its 80,000 square-foot base.

According to Mendelson and Green, executive directors of Cushman & Wakefield this is comprised of two commercial "cubes" of 10,000 feet each divided into four floors - that are the equivalent height of the 12th floor - a big stretch of "air" and then a 60,000 foot base.

The base will have up to six floors, depending on necessary ceiling heights for the eventual users.

Above the commercial cubes are 10 more cubes that are individual townhomes that are selling for more than $30 million each.

"We hired Laurie Beckelman - a former head of the City's Landmarks Commission - as a consultant and are exploring the possibilities of cultural facilities in the base," said Sciame.

[giergel]

They should cancel this project, it is not a nice tower for New York City, It's more a tower for Hong Kong or other modern Asian cities.

[3tmk]

^You've got a point there, but I believe NYC should be diverse, and this tower adds a bit of spice to downtown.

[TalB]

Honestly, I never found this project to be that realistic, plus seeing how it will stand up when it looks like it could fall.

[qzzq]

I love it! Great design and concept. The views are just amazing.

[WANCH]

They should cancel this project, it is not a nice tower for New York City, It's more a tower for Hong Kong or other modern Asian cities.

It wouldn't look nice for HK either! I think it's better off in Europe.

But The Fordham Spire is perfect for Chicago's skyline. It would also look perfect for New York as well!

I think this is the best Calatrava skyscraper I've ever seen. I like this one compared to the Turning Torso!

[Chi649]

I am so glad that in Chicago we got the Calatrava proposal that we did. This one for NY looks awful.

[AirJay78]

It looks like a freakin construction tower that belongs in industrial NJ. How can this thing look nice in any way???

[UrbanSophist]

I think it is very cool.

[Jules]

Nice. I can't say I love it, but definitely something different and cool.

[TalB]

I find it to look like a stack that could fall at anytime.

[AirJay78]

HAHA...

I'd freak out if the only thing that was holding up my house over 500 ft. up were randomly placed poles!!!

[poponoso]

I think it's a great addition to NY skyline, something fresh and new; it will make a difference, but it will contribute definitely to improve the skyline...

[AirJay78]

now... does it have to be a great addition simply because its different? Or can something that is unique and different still be flat out ugly??? Cause I'm all for something new but damn.... its not an anything goes game either

EWWWWWWWWWWW to this tower!

looks like a piece of unfinished construction. And if its supposed to look better in person, then I rather reserve any different judgement till that time

[Ebola]

Even though it looks odd, I think that it will be a nice addition to our skyline.

[7 World Trade]

It looks like a freakin construction tower that belongs in industrial NJ. How can this thing look nice in any way???

it'll be nice if it stands by itself on governors island or roosevelt island, but if you're going to build it among a cluster of skyscrapers, it's an eyesore.

[AirJay78]

especially being that our skyscrapers downtown are so thick and dense compared to this skinny thing. And if anyone knows the area, this building is not going to be exactly close to the giants... there'll be considerable space before you get to the rest of the clusters which makes this skinny piece of what appears to be unfinished construction all the less appealing.

[emutiny]

I dont like calatrava or any of his buildings, heh, if you can actually call this a freakin building. It looks like crap to me.

[z1sthies]

I don't see why everbody hates this building, just because it isn't some big boxy building everbody condems it saying it won't fit in.

[emutiny]

I don't see why everbody hates this building, just because it isn't some big boxy building everbody condems it saying it won't fit in.

i just cant see building such a tall building so with 50 people living in it, its just ridiculous

[AirJay78]

waist of a good tower if u ask me! 50 rich people living in vertical boxes by the south street seaport.... lol

Their gonna bitch about the PJs being so close by, lol

[jjbradleynyc]

As an outside observer (admittedly not knowing the facts surrounding the financing, insider deals, etc.), I don't think this project will get off the ground. The price-point is too high for the location. The tower should be built in these neighborhoods--Tribeca, Upper East Side, Upper West Side, anywhere in Midtown. The downtown location is risky, especially for people paying such an outrageous price ($20-30 million a pop) for a square condo. The project looks (architecturally) stunning, and I absolutely love the look. It's just that the location and pitch of the project seems a bit misguided. You would be right there east of Wall Street and adjacent to the South Street Seaport--areas not exactly known for their distinctive and pricey playgrounds for the rich and famous. I could be wrong, this could be a pioneering effort that turns a corner, but I don't think so.

[3tmk]

^you're wrong, this tower has absolutely no place in all three places you mentioned, except maybe Midtown.
I don't think the price is a problem, there are many other $20-30 million other properties, and this one happens to be right next to wall street, it's the perfect spot for any big spender who comes to the city rarely for business or just to show off.
As for the tower, it's ugly but it adds diversity

[Don Omar]

Is Calatrava's building going to be built? I really like 80 south street because it is so different. Sometimes it feels like Manhattan is a warehouse of boxes. When walking down 6th ave in midtown there are just rows and rows of boxes. For New York having such a diverse population and culture, a lot of the building like the same. But the city is changing.

[lazar22b]

They have yet to sell a unit. So until then unfortunatly there is no construction.

[ZZ-II]

hope they'll build it..the shape of that tower is great

[TalB]

If you asked me, it does not look like it can be built in real life.

[godblessbotox]

sexy building but two things come to mind.

a. who the hell could afford to live in it.
and
b. what happens when another building is ploped infront of its killer views?

[Don Omar]

I know these picture have been out for awhile, but they do should the beauty of this project.

http://207.44.228.232/photopost/data//508/8south_street_tower_03.jpg

http://207.44.228.232/photopost/data//508/8south_street_tower_01.jpg

http://207.44.228.232/photopost/data//508/8south_street_tower_05.jpg

http://www.fodors.com/wire/archives/051019_80southstreet.jpg

As to the the statements that it could be built and it would not fit in with NYC:
Look at China, have you seen the bird's nest stadium, the opera house and even look at Moscow. A great city such as New York which has a diverse demographic, should have a diverse amount of buildings. 80 South Street looks amazing when compared walking down 6th ave in midtown. I say let them build there lavish building in the old fish mart area.

[ausharris]

Oh god NO! This is terrible! It is everything that goes against NY! New York is about a master piece, NOT a number of pieces! New York is so beautiful so why would you want to ruin it with a wanna-be monument, which is repulsive and an outcast. It's spiritually wrong too. New York is symbolic of human built power, history, architect, values; the design counters all the efforts man put in to build new york. No way! This must NOT go up!

[ZZ-II]

think it's a fantastic design

[Brendan]

It is a good design, let's just hope it gets built.

[Middle-Island]

I thought most people considered this dead.

[drew1000]

any news

[AirJay78]

I know they say.. different strokes for different folks.

But damn! I wish I knew what people liked about this project. No matter how much I try to like this design, I can't help but see it looking like a construction craine, or a ladder of plane ol boxes (like a warehouse of boxes). If it ever gets built, it'll look like construction that's never ending

[Scruffy88]

i consider it dead, but i thought it looked utterly fantastic in the spot where they were considering it. perfect fit. perfect height over the neighboring tower. it look great with the bk bridge in front of it. if i had the money id plunk down 30 mil just to see it up

[AirJay78]

we should buy a box and use it as ssc headquarters-NY


maybe the price wont be that bad if we all chipped in :D

[sharpie20]

It looks really cool but it obviously doesn't fit in with lower manhattan or for New york city for that matter. Are there other cities anyone thinks this would fit in to well? I think it would look nice in Europe or any Asian city.

[Don Omar]

it fits

[JR]

That would be a weird looking tower in NYC.. especially downtown.

[newnewyorker]

This would be something really new in NY skyscraper design. But I also wonder could it be made construction-wise. :?
It looks so fragile. :nuts:

[TalB]

Perhaps, we could have our own leaning tower like in Pisa. :rofl:

[ZZ-II]

lol ^^

[Metsfan1520]

The condos are STARTING AT $29 million!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[snail456]

Lol...don't worry they'll sell...there was a house built near London that went for around $160 million.

[VikkyD]

^^ ^^

Yes.... A gigantic mansion on Billionaire's row sold in London for $160 million... but not 10, and not on South Street.

I absolutely adore this building! but, i truthfully can't see it going up.. yes there are buyers out there with 29,000,000 to spend on an apartment. but think from their perspective... If i were spending that much, I wouldn't want to live on the lower floors. i'd want a penthouse... so that implies that only ONE cube would be bought.... also 29,000,000 goes a lot further, in some other neighbourhoods....wouldn't you want a view of central park for $29 mil? or a townhouse on the upper east side?

[BrooklynNYC]

I really like it, I just think it looks strange right up on the water at South Street. Regardless, I hope it is built

[i_am_hydrogen]

What's the status of 80 South St?

[philvia]

cooommmmeeeee onnnnn 80 south st! i wanna see you built :(

[New Jack City]

They're still waiting for units to be sold in the cubes.

[ZZ-II]

cooommmmeeeee onnnnn 80 south st! i wanna see you built :(

yes, me too. will be a great tower for NY i think