Bangladesh Aviation - Part 5

This thread is a continuation of Bangladesh Aviation - Part 4 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=896128&page=51). Now, discuss away !!! :cheers2:

Bangladesh Aviation - Part 5

This thread is a continuation of Bangladesh Aviation - Part 4 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=896128&page=51). Now, discuss away !!! :cheers2:

Part 4 only reached a 3-star rating...too bad!

Part 4 only reached a 3-star rating...too bad!

I best guess would be that some idiots from outside the BD Sub-Forum gave 1 star and thus bought down the average ratings.

Part 4 only reached a 3-star rating...too bad!

Apart from what amar11372 has said, the quality of discussion in part 4 was also to some extent scattered, primarily due to the timing and much shorter duration than the previous three. BD aviation sector largely remained barren during this time with nothing exciting happened. Hopefully part 5 will be more eventful as BG is going to add some new generation bird in its fleet…:okay:

I best guess would be that some idiots from outside the BD Sub-Forum gave 1 star and thus bought down the average ratings.


I dont no how you rate the forum., but i would definitly give it a 5 Star.

Apart from what amar11372 has said, the quality of discussion in part 4 was also to some extent scattered, primarily due to the timing and much shorter duration than the previous three. BD aviation sector largely remained barren during this time with nothing exciting happened. Hopefully part 5 will be more eventful as BG is going to add some new generation bird in its fleet…:okay:

In part 4 I saw shadow of Mr. NG in some members.:lol:

P.S. Imran Bhai, can we use your name in reference section of our report? And can we use the person's name in whose office we sat? What's his name anyway?

United to spread wings further to int'l routes

United Airways is going to spread its wings further on international routes as it yesterday got government permission to operate flights twice a week on Dhaka-London-Dhaka route, the first by a private airline.

It also got permission to operate flights to Jeddah, Dammam and Riyadh of Saudi Arabia.

The company said the civil aviation ministry gave the permission after reviewing the past track record of the airline in operating flights on international routes.

The United Airways, a venture of the non-resident Bangladeshis mainly living in the UK, is expected to start its operating flights on the Dhaka-London-Dhaka route by the year-end and at least to one destination in Saudi Arabia. It is now operating international flights to Kolkata and Dubai.

On July 23, the United Airways launched a direct flight to Dubai. It is operating a flight from Dhaka to Dubai every Thursday and Sunday with its newly procured 155-seat MD-83 aircraft.

Source: The Daily Star: http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=99996

What kind of Aircraft will they be operating to EGLL?

Kuwait Airways makes emergency landing at ZIA

Sun, Aug 2nd, 2009 5:58 pm BdST

Dhaka, August 2 (bdnews24.com)A Kuwait Airways flight with 229 passengers on board made an emergency landing at the Zia International Airport on Sunday immediately after taking off with engine trouble.

The director of the airport, wing commander M Saeedul Hasan Khan, told bdnews24.com that the engine problem might have developed from a collision with a bird. No-one was injured in the incident, though, Khan added.

The plane had left for Kuwait at 7:38am but returned and landed immediately.

Traffic officer of the airline Mahmudul Hassan said, "One engine of the plane developed complications after a bird came in contact with the plane."

The airline sent 30 passengers to London and five to Paris by another plane and kept the rest at hotel. Fifty-five of them will be sent to their middle-east destinations on Sunday night, according to Hassan.

But no decision has been made about the 90 who were to go to New York, the officer added.

I just noted that 40% of that KU flight was bound for JFK. We don't get to know the proportion of connecting passengers but 40% heading for JFK seems a lot to me. Is that normal for KU or was it just a one-off incident?

KU is aggressively promoting their LHR-DAC service and I am pretty sure it's true for their JFK and other destinations; but wonder how EK, QR and GF are responding.


In part 4 I saw shadow of Mr. NG in some members.:lol:



I second that :)

Southern Airlines starts flights with Canton

The China Southern Airlines inaugurated its Dhaka-Canton flights on Monday.
The first flight reached at Zia International Airport at 1 am on Monday and the return flight departed Dhaka at 3 am.
At a simple ceremony at ZIA, officials of Chinese Embassy in Dhaka and Novo Air, the GSA of the Chinese airline here, greeted the crews and passengers in the inaugural flights.
The ceremony was also attended by the first secretary of People Republic of Chinese Embassy in Bangladesh, Yin Yi Fan.
Mofizur Rahman, managing director of Novo Air said, China Southern Airlines would operate Dhaka-Guangzhou-Dhaka flights once a week, initially with Boeing 737-800 aircraft with 170-seat capacity.
The airline has a plan to increase its frequency of flight soon to provide better service to its passengers, he added.

United to spread wings further to int'l routes

United Airways is going to spread its wings further on international routes as it yesterday got government permission to operate flights twice a week on Dhaka-London-Dhaka route, the first by a private airline.

It also got permission to operate flights to Jeddah, Dammam and Riyadh of Saudi Arabia.

The company said the civil aviation ministry gave the permission after reviewing the past track record of the airline in operating flights on international routes.

The United Airways, a venture of the non-resident Bangladeshis mainly living in the UK, is expected to start its operating flights on the Dhaka-London-Dhaka route by the year-end and at least to one destination in Saudi Arabia. It is now operating international flights to Kolkata and Dubai.

On July 23, the United Airways launched a direct flight to Dubai. It is operating a flight from Dhaka to Dubai every Thursday and Sunday with its newly procured 155-seat MD-83 aircraft.

Source: The Daily Star: http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=99996

Looks like they will be using Boeing 767 as it states on 4H website.

http://www.uabdl.com/news_events.html

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/1713/bannerwac.jpg

MAD DOG YO!!!!

United to fly to London this year
Bangladesh Sangbad Sangstha . Dhaka

United Airways Limited, one of the country’s leading private airlines, will start Dhaka-London-Dhaka flights within this year as the government today gave approval, in principle, to operate the flights.

The civil aviation ministry gave the approval at a meeting held at its conference room considering the successful operations of the private airline since its inception two years ago.

United Airlines will also be allowed to operate Dhaka-Saudi Arabia-Dhaka flights at the end of this year, said a press release.

http://www.newagebd.com/2009/aug/04/busi.html

^^ How did United get the permission to fly to London before GMG?

Looks like they will be using Boeing 767 as it states on 4H website. http://www.uabdl.com/news_events.html

that will be used for the time being ;) ...... but as per teh plan, it should be B777-300ER in the future :)

From http://www.uabdl.com/news_events.html

United Airways Limited, Bangladesh's premier and most preferred airline, will launch services to London, the capital and largest city of the United Kingdom, and Jeddah the capital city of Kingdom of Saudi Arabia from Dhaka, effective November, 2009.

This will be the airline's fifth and sixth international flight from Bangladesh. The airline will launch three services a week on the Dhaka - London sector, on Tuesdays, Thursday and Sunday respectively, aboard a state-of-the-art Boeing new generation and MD83 aircrafts. With the introduction of this new flight, United Airways will fly to 7 cities in the Gulf, including Kuwait, Bahrain, Muscat, Doha, Abu Dhabi, Jeddah and Riyadh.

^^

crazy decision! MD83?!?!?!?! to DAC-LHR??? pfttt i dont wanna say anythin more!

^^

crazy decision! MD83?!?!?!?! to DAC-LHR??? pfttt i dont wanna say anythin more!

It's not all that crazy. Uncomfortable and butt-numbing, but not crazy :)

Look at Airblue (http://airblue.com/Sched/destinations_isb.asp) (Pakistan). They're running Islamabad --> Manchester with A320's and A321's.

^^

yeah I knw but A320 family aircrafts at least have a wider body than MD83!!! MD83 will be effin uncomfortable and boring DAC-LHR route! Why couldnt they lease a wide body A330 at least lol?

Abdulr123 bro can tell us more :)

btw Abdulr123: check ur pm

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/1713/bannerwac.jpg

MAD DOG YO!!!!

AGREE! its indeed, a MAD DOG! If 4H keeps continuing opearting some tiny MDs, then they can prepare themselves for loss.

MD83 from DAC-LHR is not ideal many PAX will find it uncomfortable to fly and will opt out of it especially on a route that is 8-9 9hrs. its perfect for the ME routes. As Manazir and i have mentioned before A332/3 or 773ER will be perfect for this route.

Does anyone know if 4H have leased the 767? if not have they got a RFP/ tender for it.

DAC-London is it going to be a direct flight or will there be a stop over? and which london airport are they flyin to. i think someone mentioned Gatwick.

United to spread wings further to int'l routes

United Airways is going to spread its wings further on international routes as it yesterday got government permission to operate flights twice a week on Dhaka-London-Dhaka route, the first by a private airline.



Will their rate be cheaper than BA or Emirates?

^^

yeah I knw but A320 family aircrafts at least have a wider body than MD83!!! MD83 will be effin uncomfortable and boring DAC-LHR route! Why couldnt they lease a wide body A330 at least lol?

Abdulr123 bro can tell us more :)

btw Abdulr123: check ur pm

MD83 from DAC-LHR is not ideal many PAX will find it uncomfortable to fly and will opt out of it especially on a route that is 8-9 9hrs. its perfect for the ME routes. As Manazir and i have mentioned before A332/3 or 773ER will be perfect for this route.

Does anyone know if 4H have leased the 767? if not have they got a RFP/ tender for it.

DAC-London is it going to be a direct flight or will there be a stop over? and which london airport are they flyin to. i think someone mentioned Gatwick.


There are hordes of Potential passengers who will forgo "comforts" for cheaper tickets, assuming UA's is the lowest.

MD83 from DAC-LHR is not ideal many PAX will find it uncomfortable to fly and will opt out of it especially on a route that is 8-9 9hrs. its perfect for the ME routes. As Manazir and i have mentioned before A332/3 or 773ER will be perfect for this route.

Does anyone know if 4H have leased the 767? if not have they got a RFP/ tender for it.

DAC-London is it going to be a direct flight or will there be a stop over? and which london airport are they flyin to. i think someone mentioned Gatwick.

I thought u r supposed to know it?!?! (as the CEO) lol or Tasbirul Alam keeps all his plans top-secret perhaps? :D

I thought u r supposed to know it?!?! (as the CEO) lol

i thought but seems like i dont.

It's not all that crazy. Uncomfortable and butt-numbing, but not crazy :)

Look at Airblue (http://airblue.com/Sched/destinations_isb.asp) (Pakistan). They're running Islamabad --> Manchester with A320's and A321's.

DAC-LON will not be done with the MD-83 for sure. Just some Middle Eastern destinations.

glad to hear that they are flying to LHR.....good decision

^^ How did United get the permission to fly to London before GMG?

maybe GMG never applied!

United to fly to London this year
Bangladesh Sangbad Sangstha . Dhaka

United Airways Limited, one of the country’s leading private airlines, will start Dhaka-London-Dhaka flights within this year as the government today gave approval, in principle, to operate the flights.

http://www.newagebd.com/2009/aug/04/busi.html

From what I've heard, United is planning to use the B767-300ER (which, as insane as it is, they're also planning to "buy") on the Dhaka-London route. I doubt that they'll get a slot at Heathrow, so Gatwick/Stansted is more likely to be the arriving airport at London.

However, from whatever little I understand, I believe they'll lose money on this route, irrespective of the aircraft procurement method and type.

From what I've heard, United is planning to use the B767-300ER (which, as insane as it is, they're also planning to "buy") on the Dhaka-London route. I doubt that they'll get a slot at Heathrow, so Gatwick/Stansted is more likely to be the arriving airport at London.

However, from whatever little I understand, I believe they'll lose money on this route, irrespective of the aircraft procurement method and type.

It will be great if they can get a slot in LHR imagine 4H and UA parked next to each other.if 4H cant get LHR slot then i hope its LGW.

^^

haha i think thts the reason 4H may NOT get LHR slot atm!

It will be great if they can get a slot in LHR imagine 4H and UA parked next to each other.if 4H cant get LHR slot then i hope its LGW.

well.. I guess 4H can invite the UA crew for a "Kabadi match" to decide:lol:

It will be great if they can get a slot in LHR imagine 4H and UA parked next to each other.if 4H cant get LHR slot then i hope its LGW.

Welldone United Airways. It is a wonderful move by 4H. Glad to hear that, they are to introduce more Gulf destination like Kuwait, Bahrain, Muscat, Doha, Abu Dhabi, Jeddah and Riyadh. I am sure 4H will get the slot in LHR. LHR's Terminal 4 is not that busy at the moment after most of the BA flights shifted to Terminal 5.

Hopefully we will see United Airways in Sri Lanka as well :)

Is United Airways a private airline?

^^

they have more chance of getting a slot in LGW rather than LHR, Inshallah it will be seen in Bandaranaike International Airport, Colombo one day :)

United Airways is a private airlines, I thought u knew that before hehe

^^

they have more chance of getting a slot in LGW rather than LHR, Inshallah it will be seen in Bandaranaike International Airport, Colombo one day :)

United Airways is a private airlines, I thought u knew that before hehe

Thanks Manazir, I just wanted to confirm if 4H is a private carrier. I believe GMG and United Airways should merge together. They could create wonderful flight operation.

^^

i see no chance of that. GMG and United seem to be enemies hehe, if uve seen the report about 2 foreign GMG pilots joining United recently.

^^

they have more chance of getting a slot in LGW rather than LHR, Inshallah it will be seen in Bandaranaike International Airport, Colombo one day :)

United Airways is a private airlines, I thought u knew that before hehe

LGW will be a far batter than LHR as far as pax experience in concerned. It is less busy in terms of roads, parking ect ect. The airport terminal itself is alot less conjested, all in all it is a better experience for the pax to fly through LGW.

It will be great if they can get a slot in LHR imagine 4H and UA parked next to each other.if 4H cant get LHR slot then i hope its LGW.

^^
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/733/presentation1cwa.jpg

Thanks Manazir, I just wanted to confirm if 4H is a private carrier. I believe GMG and United Airways should merge together. They could create wonderful flight operation.

The two airlines with equally stupid acts between them would create the world's most stupidest airline ever. Hardly fascinating!

The two airlines with equally stupid acts between them would create the world's most stupidest airline ever. Hardly fascinating!

Okay I found one more shot of their MD-83 S2-AEU. Oh how I wish they'd spend a little bit of this money to hire some good management types...

http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=01629264&size=large

From what I've heard, United is planning to use the B767-300ER (which, as insane as it is, they're also planning to "buy") on the Dhaka-London route. I doubt that they'll get a slot at Heathrow, so Gatwick/Stansted is more likely to be the arriving airport at London.

However, from whatever little I understand, I believe they'll lose money on this route, irrespective of the aircraft procurement method and type.

Imran could you please explain why they will loose money on this route? What type of aircraft they should use to be profitable? Thank you.

Nobody has any idea on how much flying Dhaka to London by United will cost?

Imran could you please explain why they will loose money on this route? What type of aircraft they should use to be profitable? Thank you.

Ill leave it for Imran bhai to answer it well :)

but heres my answer, they are doing it a bit too fast just like GMG did. Remember when GMG leased the B747 aircraft to operate to DXB and how they failed? just like that, I think 4H is moving on a bit fast. They should operate to Middle Eastern destinations (AUH, DOH, BAH, KWI, RUH, MCT, JED) and South East asian destinations (BKK, KUL, SIN) first where it would be more profitable (probably) but instead, seems like they are trying to grab the ceiling without climbing a ladder!

When they become profitable, then they can have the money to lease-purchase some good aircrafts and then they can operate to European and American destinations if they want to.

About the aircraft, I think using A330-200 would be much better choice.

Okay I found one more shot of their MD-83 S2-AEU. Oh how I wish they'd spend a little bit of this money to hire some good management types...

http://www.myaviation.net/search/photo_search.php?id=01629264&size=large

I am not sure about others i think 4H need to change their Livery. it looks abit too tacky.

^^ I also agreed remember? :P

Also, can anyone suggest a new name for United please?? Please make sure the name will be easy to say for the foreigners even :)

I suggested "AVIAN Airlines" earlier but Abdulr123 said it may confuse with Aviana Airlines. He suggested "Sonargaon Airlines" which i think its not so bad name. Also, how about AeroBengal or SouthAsian Air ?

Imran bro,

does RAK still operate to DAC?? and did Afriqiyah Airways cancel their plans to operate to DAC??

theres an unofficial site for ZIA lol:

http://www.ziaairport.com/

by samuel chy

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj50/amar11372/1-1.jpg

by Kees Harteveld

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj50/amar11372/2-1.jpg

by Peter Knaap

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj50/amar11372/3-1.jpg

^^ the last one is in DXB

From a passenger (not an aviation expert):

If United Airways starts their Lon-Dac direct flight I will be flying with them inshallah. At this moment so many Bangladeshi brothers and sisters are suffering since BA has stopped its direct route. I know people do enjoy flying via DXB or transit via other airports but majority of the people would love the the straight 10 hours (approx) flight to Dhaka again.

As for Airport slots it will have slight effect if they dont get LHR slots.
London Heathrow (prefered by): Passengers who would normally use public transport e.g. London Underground, would prefer Heathrow than Gatwick or Stanstead. Also passengers living in west london area. But the majority of Bangladeshi community live in East London and I doubt we would mind if its Gatwick or Stanstead.

Driving to..... (lets say I live in Stratford)
Heathrow from East London will take approximately 1 hour and 15 to 30 minute. plus the hessle of parking your car (why there is not enough parking in heathrow, I dont know)

Gatwick will take about the same time but it is less busier than LHR.

Stanstead: I will be laughing all the way to Stanstead. It will take an east londoner no more than 40 minutes to reach Stanstead.

Imran bro,

does RAK still operate to DAC?? and did Afriqiyah Airways cancel their plans to operate to DAC??

theres an unofficial site for ZIA lol:

http://www.ziaairport.com/

Why? Is Dhaka Airport hasnt got the official website?

Nice try from the person who developed this Zia Airport website. However the website can be improved by providing airport informaton, flight schedule...

I developed my own website for Sri Lanka Airports in year 2002. check this out www.airsrilanka.org

Call for completing Khulna airport construction

Staff Correspondent, KhulnaGreater Khulna Development Action Coordination Committee has appealed to the government to reconsider an allocation of fund to complete construction of an airport in the region.

The committee said the airport in Khulna will contribute to economic development of the south-western region of the country.

The foundation stone to construct the airport was laid in 1995 at Faila near the Khulna-Mongla highway of Bagerhat district. However, no fund was allocated in the national budget for the purpose.

Later, construction that began in 1996 was halted by both Awami League and the four-party alliance for non-allocation of funds.

President of the committee Liakat Ali told The Daily Star that the airport would accelerate economic growth as the region boasts of the world's largest mangrove forest, the Sundarbans, and the country's second seaport at Mongla.

The Sundarbans has already been selected for the final round of a race, along with 27 others, to be named one of the new seven wonders of nature.

The airport in the region is indispensable for making the Mongla port more effective and economically viable, Ali said. It will attract greater investment as local and foreign investors consider an airport as the easiest and fastest way for movement and communication, he added.

The committee chief expressed frustration over non-allocation of fund by the present government in the current national budget for the construction of the airport and said it is now a "demand of the time" and not an issue for a political party to win an election.

It is necessary that construction of the airport in Khulna be completed, as the World Bank has expressed desire to provide financial assistance to develop the Mongla seaport and rivers sectors in the region, Ali said.
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http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=100346

Imran could you please explain why they will loose money on this route? What type of aircraft they should use to be profitable? Thank you.

1. United will not be able to provide a cheaper fare for Dhaka-London nonstop than the one-stop options available from EK/EY/QR/9W/KU...unless of course if they undercut the fare significantly, in which case they'll be losing money.

2. United will also not be able to deliver a product that'd match, for example, what BA offered...which is what "price-insensitive" travellers would only be prepared to pay a 'premium' for. With a feasible fare for the non-stop, if they can't deliver the quality of product required, they'll end up with low load-factors which will again make them lose money.

3. Their best shot would be to operate Dhaka-Sylhet-London which might lure the Bangladeshi community in the UK significantly enough to make them pay the premium fare, but even that'd have a seasonal low traffic which may again be a money-losing factor.

4. Note that unlike EK/EY/QR/9W or even BA when they served DAC, United will have to depend solely on the point-to-point traffic between Dhaka and London. A significant percentage of the pax carried from Dhaka to London by EK/EY/QR/9W travel onwards from London, which is the market United will not be able to tap on.

About the aircraft, I think using A330-200 would be much better choice.

The A330-200 cannot make Dhaka-London non-stop with full structural payload.


On another note, from the IATA Winter 2009-2010 season BG will be adding frequencies to LHR (initially through DXB with A310, and eventually non-stops with the leased 777s) and 9W will also be increasing capacity on the DEL-LHR sector, which makes me think that 9W will also simultaneously add capacity to the DAC-DEL route around that time as well.

What will be interesting to see is how quickly United's Big Ben dreams would fizzle out!

On another note, from the IATA Winter 2009-2010 season BG will be adding frequencies to LHR (initially through DXB with A310, and eventually non-stops with the leased 777s) and 9W will also be increasing capacity on the DEL-LHR sector, which makes me think that 9W will also simultaneously add capacity to the DAC-DEL route around that time as well.

What will be interesting to see is how quickly United's Big Ben dreams would fizzle out!

is this information available on IATA website?

1. United will not be able to provide a cheaper fare for Dhaka-London nonstop than the one-stop options available from EK/EY/QR/9W/KU...unless of course if they undercut the fare significantly, in which case they'll be losing money.

2. United will also not be able to deliver a product that'd match, for example, what BA offered...which is what "price-insensitive" travellers would only be prepared to pay a 'premium' for. With a feasible fare for the non-stop, if they can't deliver the quality of product required, they'll end up with low load-factors which will again make them lose money.

3. Their best shot would be to operate Dhaka-Sylhet-London which might lure the Bangladeshi community in the UK significantly enough to make them pay the premium fare, but even that'd have a seasonal low traffic which may again be a money-losing factor.

4. Note that unlike EK/EY/QR/9W or even BA when they served DAC, United will have to depend solely on the point-to-point traffic between Dhaka and London. A significant percentage of the pax carried from Dhaka to London by EK/EY/QR/9W travel onwards from London, which is the market United will not be able to tap on.



The A330-200 cannot make Dhaka-London non-stop with full structural payload.


On another note, from the IATA Winter 2009-2010 season BG will be adding frequencies to LHR (initially through DXB with A310, and eventually non-stops with the leased 777s) and 9W will also be increasing capacity on the DEL-LHR sector, which makes me think that 9W will also simultaneously add capacity to the DAC-DEL route around that time as well.

What will be interesting to see is how quickly United's Big Ben dreams would fizzle out!

Thank you Asif. I feel disappointed. I want to see our private carriers as well as BG successful. It seems like they lack proper planning. I read this blog for a long time. Trust me I am wondering why they are not using local talent like you.

Thank you Asif. I feel disappointed. I want to see our private carriers as well as BG successful. It seems like they lack proper planning. I read this blog for a long time. Trust me I am wondering why they are not using local talent like you.

Because:
1) They can't afford him
2) They think they know better

The above are not mutually exclusive.

The A330-200 cannot make Dhaka-London non-stop with full structural payload.


A330-200 has a maximum range of 12,000 kms while A330-300 has a max range of 10,500 kms and the distance from DAC-LHR is around 8,000 km or so (accodding to Great Circle Mapper thing) :)

Imran bhai, i didnt get my reply to #46 yet :)

also, ppl please do suggest a new name for 4H/united (see post # 45), thanks :)

Thank you Asif. I feel disappointed. I want to see our private carriers as well as BG successful. It seems like they lack proper planning. I read this blog for a long time. Trust me I am wondering why they are not using local talent like you.

It doesn't take any 'talent' to possess common sense. It also doesn't take any talent to realize the importance of looking at real market statistics. It takes one to be a 'fool' to do business without common sense and rationality.

A330-200 has a maximum range of 12,000 kms while A330-300 has a max range of 10,500 kms and the distance from DAC-LHR is around 8,000 km or so (accodding to Great Circle Mapper thing) :)

Be careful about looking at max range data, as max range is not the range at max structural payload. At 'zero' structural payload, the A330-200 can fly much farther than the 12,000 kms you mentioned...nearly 17,000 kms! At max structural payload, the max range is about 4,200 nm (under 8,000 km). Here's the range chart for A330-200s with the GE CF6-80E1 engine option:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd236/TheCoolOnes/A332-RANGE.jpg

Btw, the thumb rule to estimate flight distance is to add 3% to the great circle distance, plus an estimated distance for the reasonable alternate.

Imran bhai, i didnt get my reply to #46 yet :)

RAK doesn't operate to DAC anymore. I'm not informed about the plans of Afriqiyah.

^^ thanks for that :)

RAK doesn't operate to DAC anymore. I'm not informed about the plans of Afriqiyah.[/QUOTE]

I think RAK is near defunct, and their order of 737-800s is now questionable. Published reports do state that the government of RAK is trying to reestablish the airline, but it seems much of the UAE is going through economic doldrums and not sure such ventures are as viable. I did read a report that RAK's DAC and CGP routes performed well. I think the AirArabia has a sounder business model and one huge advantage - the proximity of Sharjah to Dubai (also, many Bangladeshi workers actually live in Sharjah and work in Dubai). But it is a better funded, better run airline overall.

As for Afriqiyah, not sure why the TIP-DAC-MNL flights were dropped. It was first scheduled for July, then moved to Sept, and then dropped outright. Now, their website still has the note that they are going to start MNL and DAC (http://www.afriqiyah.aero/news/49-afriqiyah-flying-to-7-new-destenations-in-summer.html) but that is no indication (their website also took 2 months after flight times were loaded on reservation systems to announce the service. I do think that they have shelved plans for the MNL flights as their new A330s are being deployed on ACC and LOS routes.

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc

^^
I hope Afriqiyah does operate to DAC, looks like a good airline anyway.

as for RAK, their website says "under construction" http://www.rakairways.com/
RAK wiki article still says that they operate to DAC hehe : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAK_Airways

I hope it doesnt go defunct, they were doing quite well in DAC and CGP routes.

Guys whats the Status Quo with Beximco and GMG airlines have they merged with GMG yet? last time when we had a discussion i think they were just on a MoU.

Guys whats the Status Quo with Beximco and GMG airlines have they merged with GMG yet? last time when we had a discussion i think they were just on a MoU.

Status quo?

Guys whats the Status Quo with Beximco and GMG airlines have they merged with GMG yet? last time when we had a discussion i think they were just on a MoU.

I haven't been following the matter lately, but I've been told that it has gone farther enough from the MoU, and that Beximco has put in some cash. However, I can't guarantee the accuracy of this info, and I don't know how to quantify 'some' cash either!

I think RAK is near defunct, and their order of 737-800s is now questionable. Published reports do state that the government of RAK is trying to reestablish the airline, but it seems much of the UAE is going through economic doldrums and not sure such ventures are as viable. I did read a report that RAK's DAC and CGP routes performed well. I think the AirArabia has a sounder business model and one huge advantage - the proximity of Sharjah to Dubai (also, many Bangladeshi workers actually live in Sharjah and work in Dubai). But it is a better funded, better run airline overall.

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc

RAK Airways is still in active, but the flight operation is not available from Ras-Al-Kahmah Airport at the moment. Since the RAK Schedule flights have been dropped, RAK fleet have been shifted to Kinshasa Airport in Congo for a charter operation on a wet lease basis to Hewa Bora Airlines. Now they are operating to airports in Brussels, Johannesburg and Paris. RAK New CEO said in May 2009 as RAK will not be closed.

Once they reopen the flight operation at Ras-Al-Kahmah Airport, certainly DAC and CGP will be in their list, as they are the profitable routes for RAK.

I am still wondering whether TK will operate DAC-IST flights or not. Any updates on this?
Even if they operate, what is the possible aircraft to be used, A330 or A340??

Btw guys, I have got some name suggestions for United Airways (please tell me if its good or not):

* Desh Air/ Airlines/ Airways.
* AeroBengal
* Air Eastern.
* Asian Air.
* SouthAsian Airlines.
* South Air etc.....
:)

In UAE, each of the major airlines serve each city/emirate.
Such as, EK serves for DXB, EY serves for AUH, G9 serves for SHJ, RT serves for RKT etcc......

I was wondering that, in future, if we could do the same for the Bangladeshi airlines because now, there are 4/5 Bangladeshi carriers all operating from DAC and I guess, in the future, it may be a difficult situation.

I was thinking that BG could serve for DAC, Z5 probably for CGP, 4H for ZYL etc......I think it will be much easier to operate!

The perfect names for United Airways is Dhaka Airways or FlyDhaka and it should be centralised at Dhaka Zia.

^^ haha i did think of "Dhaka Airways" but then I though it might be bit wierd u knw :P , FlyDhaka would be just a copy of FlyDubai lol so I wont go for tht.

Status quo?


Status Quote.

I haven't been following the matter lately, but I've been told that it has gone farther enough from the MoU, and that Beximco has put in some cash. However, I can't guarantee the accuracy of this info, and I don't know how to quantify 'some' cash either!


If both companies do merge. GMG is planning to purchase 2x B767 would it not be wise just to purchase T7's

I am still wondering whether TK will operate DAC-IST flights or not. Any updates on this?
Even if they operate, what is the possible aircraft to be used, A330 or A340??

Btw guys, I have got some name suggestions for United Airways (please tell me if its good or not):

* Desh Air/ Airlines/ Airways.
* AeroBengal
* Air Eastern.
* Asian Air.
* SouthAsian Airlines.
* South Air etc.....
:)

I think this 'United/4H Fantasy Game' deserves a thread for itself, considering the enthusiasm you folks have got for it! :)

If both companies do merge. GMG is planning to purchase 2x B767 would it not be wise just to purchase T7's

From my limited understanding, it'd not be wise to purchase any airplane...at least as far as the local pvt airlines and their conditions are concerned.

I am still wondering whether TK will operate DAC-IST flights or not. Any updates on this?
Even if they operate, what is the possible aircraft to be used, A330 or A340??

Btw guys, I have got some name suggestions for United Airways (please tell me if its good or not):

* Desh Air/ Airlines/ Airways.
* AeroBengal
* Air Eastern.
* Asian Air.
* SouthAsian Airlines.
* South Air etc.....
:)

Call it MUJIB-ZIA airlines to stay in favor with both political parties :)

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc

Call it MUJIB-ZIA airlines to stay in favor with both political parties :)

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc

:okay: Can't go wrong with that combination!

I think this 'United/4H Fantasy Game' deserves a thread for itself, considering the enthusiasm you folks have got for it! :)


i agree there should be another thread for this.

Call it MUJIB-ZIA airlines to stay in favor with both political parties :)

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc

Very witty and :( at the same time

Call it MUJIB-ZIA airlines to stay in favor with both political parties :)

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc

And the biggest, nastiest political war will ensue over such a name of the airline...debating over whose name will precede whose!

Our politicians are darn good at picking issues to fight over! :)

^^
lol guys, u made a joke out of the naming issue when I was considering it serious, very nice indeed :D (but plz do tell me which of the suggested names sound good), I still didnt get my update on TK operating DAC-IST lol......

About 4H, I dnt knw if it would be wise to have a seperate thread. After all, we are discussing "Bangladeshi Aviation", and I would like 4H to perform well, so even though its sorta 'fantasy-like', i think its not a bad idea to plan it eh? :)

Also, hws my idea on post # 70?

If u really wanna have a seperate thread, I would like Imran bhai to commence it :P

I was wondering that, in future, if we could do the same for the Bangladeshi airlines because now, there are 4/5 Bangladeshi carriers all operating from DAC and I guess, in the future, it may be a difficult situation.

I was thinking that BG could serve for DAC, Z5 probably for CGP, 4H for ZYL etc......I think it will be much easier to operate!

Nope...not practically, or commercially feasible. Bangladesh isn't UAE, and our demographic conditions wouldn't permit such an idea to be viable.

If u really wanna have a seperate thread, I would like Imran bhai to commence it :P

I'm not nearly as enthusiastic about the fantasy-game as you folks are, and hence it should be your initiative (or Abdul's since he has agreed) to cut the ribbon! We the other people will do the clapping and smile like morons in typical Bangladeshi ish-tyle! :D

^^ :lol:

I'm not nearly as enthusiastic about the fantasy-game as you folks are, and hence it should be your initiative (or Abdul's since he has agreed) to cut the ribbon! We the other people will do the clapping and smile like morons in typical Bangladeshi ish-tyle! :D

A separate thread on the fantasy game may as well bring the discussion in this seriese of thread back on track...:nuts:

On a separate note, any decision from BG on Aircraft lease?

United Airways is very much part of Bangladeshi avation, why open a differnt thread?

United Airways is very much part of Bangladeshi avation, why open a differnt thread?

United essentially is part Bangladeshi aviation, but fantasy games are/should not...

But obviously it's my individual opinion....

United Airways is very much part of Bangladeshi avation, why open a differnt thread?

United sure is a part of BD aviation, but the fantasy-game is much like, in literal translation, jackfruit on the tree...oil on the moustache thingy. While I have no lack of support towards the fantasy planning, I personally think a separate thread would keep the subject matter on focus, both here and in there, much better than now.

I think this 'United/4H Fantasy Game' deserves a thread for itself, considering the enthusiasm you folks have got for it! :)

Couldn't agree more.

i believe this forum is about taking part in Bangladesh aviation. everyone leaves their own opinion and thoughts on bangladesh aviation. I agree if there is a fantasy game then there should be a new thread for it. I totally understand the fact that United Airways is part of Bangladesh Aviation also maybe soon it will be BG rivalry company. fantasy games in a different threads and bangladesh avaition matter should be disscussed here. But many of us here are only making suggestion on the future of 4H theres no harm at all. After all we have many experts here who seems to have a better understandin of not just Bangladesh Aviation but the worlds aviation industry. put that aside.

Asif you mentioned earlier on that Z5 should not invest in aircrafts at the moment does that mean they shouldn't expand their routes as well? since 4H is expanding their wings to London wouldn't they (Z5) want to do the same be and in the competition? or should they wait till the world's financial crisis has come to an end where people can afford to fly.

United sure is a part of BD aviation, but the fantasy-game is much like, in literal translation, jackfruit on the tree...oil on the moustache thingy. While I have no lack of support towards the fantasy planning, I personally think a separate thread would keep the subject matter on focus, both here and in there, much better than now.

Amen.

Personally, I'm tiring of this fantasy play. In the beginning, I was confused and didn't realize that it is a fantasy game. I think this sort of thing is ideal for Second Life.

Asif you mentioned earlier on that Z5 should not invest in aircrafts at the moment does that mean they shouldn't expand their routes as well? since 4H is expanding their wings to London wouldn't they (Z5) want to do the same be and in the competition? or should they wait till the world's financial crisis has come to an end where people can afford to fly.

I didn't opine against 'investing' for aircraft...I only opposed the idea of any local airline 'buying' the aircraft...something which United seems to have an undying (and nonsensical) yearning for!

And like I said earlier, I think 4H will lose money on the Dhaka-London route as and when they'd launch it. Why should Z5 even bother to compete 4H on a money-losing route? Z5 would actually be far better off doing what they did with their leased 737-800s last year, and perhaps a bit more...and then take steady steps farther out...although I'm not sure how the basis of their future plan will be shaped, and how well they'd be able to implement it.

For united I would like to say that,

one more MD and a 767 is enough for them. If they plan for bigger then it will not wise because you all know about the fate of 747 of GMG.:ohno:

I didn't opine against 'investing' for aircraft...I only opposed the idea of any local airline 'buying' the aircraft...something which United seems to have an undying (and nonsensical) yearning for!

And like I said earlier, I think 4H will lose money on the Dhaka-London route as and when they'd launch it. Why should Z5 even bother to compete 4H on a money-losing route? Z5 would actually be far better off doing what they did with their leased 737-800s last year, and perhaps a bit more...and then take steady steps farther out...although I'm not sure how the basis of their future plan will be shaped, and how well they'd be able to implement it.

i think its still early days for 4H to operate on the London-Dhaka vice versa. they may end up in the same pickle like Z5 as they did with their DAC-DXB route. i personally think they should expand their routes locally and even concentrate on the ME destination until they are financially stable. the only way i can see the London route being sucessful is. whether they get Gatwick, Stanstead or even Luton Bangladesh PAX will travel to these airport to get their flight. A typical UK Bangladeshi sylheti PAX will look at

1 Service
2 Baggage Allowance BG on a Y class gives 30/40kg
3 how soon will they get to their final destination i.e sylhet

if Z4 is giving better service then BG and their baggage allowance is more then BG also if their route is LHR-DAC-ZYL and their luggage arrives with their flight then i can see many PAX optin for Z4 and maybe being sucessful

when BA operated from LHR what was the PAX load on each flight?

I think that Dhaka-london route is very important for United but this is not the right time. may be after observing this financial aviation year. ME route expansion is enough for United this year.^^

the only way i can see the London route being sucessful is. whether they get Gatwick, Stanstead or even Luton Bangladesh PAX will travel to these airport to get their flight. A typical UK Bangladeshi sylheti PAX will look at...

The sad but true fact is, no pvt airline will be able to sustain the Dhaka-London route based on only the Sylheti Bangladeshi pax, and 4H being a point-to-point airline between Dhaka and London will not be able to competitively tap into the market of pax travelling to/from points farther than London (not even with codeshares etc).

when BA operated from LHR what was the PAX load on each flight?

at least 70% load factor or sumthin like that as far as i can remember.

United Airways (4H) should consider the following routes first:

BKK, SIN, KUL, AUH, DOH, KWI, RUH, JED, MCT, and BAH (using 3/4 leased A330 or B767). This would be more profitable for them, then they can go for:

LHR/LGW, HKG, NRT, ICN, CDG, FRA, BRU, JFK, ATH, and TIP.

is TK still considering to start DAC-IST flights?? any update on it?

Leasing 330-200 will not be wise because as a small company everyone should choice single company for narrow and wide body airline. United has chosen MD and Bombadier so it will wiser to choose 767.

Any update on BIman ?
In a bangladeshi TV I saw a report on USA route- MD and Chairmann says they get 3 777 for dry lease which will reach before oct,2009.

Biman will start USA route and Tripoli from Oct,2009

Any update to anyone:hi::hi::hi:?

^^
yes BG is leasing 3x B777-200s by October 2009 from the decommissioned aircrafts from SQ/CX/CZ. There are plans to lease 2x B787-800NGs by 2010 aswell.

After the lease, there are high possibilities to resume DAC-BRU-JFK flights. Also, TIP may be resumed as well as ATH, FRA, CDG, AMS/MAN, BKK, and NRT. :)

In a bangladeshi TV I saw a report on USA route- MD and Chairmann says they get 3 777 for dry lease which will reach before oct,2009.

Biman will start USA route and Tripoli from Oct,2009

Any update to anyone:hi::hi::hi:?


^^
yes BG is leasing 3x B777-200s by October 2009 from the decommissioned aircrafts from SQ/CX/CZ. There are plans to lease 2x B787-800NGs by 2010 aswell.

After the lease, there are high possibilities to resume DAC-BRU-JFK flights. Also, TIP may be resumed as well as ATH, FRA, CDG, AMS/MAN, BKK, and NRT. :)

The first of the 3x 777s will be delivered in October. The other two will be delivered through the remaining months of the year.

Biman's JFK flight is most likely to be routed through MAN instead of BRU. The airline is in discussions regarding this with the FAA. However, after 1 year Biman may have to suspend JFK again unless (i) Bangladesh/CAAB becomes a Category 1 state recognized by the FAA, or (ii) Biman extends the wet-lease period of the 777s beyond 1 year.

Manazir: Biman will not operate to FRA/AMS/CDG anytime soon, and chances of ATH is slim as well.

The first of the 3x 777s will be delivered in October. The other two will be delivered through the remaining months of the year.

Biman's JFK flight is most likely to be routed through MAN instead of BRU. The airline is in discussions regarding this with the FAA. However, after 1 year Biman may have to suspend JFK again unless (i) Bangladesh/CAAB becomes a Category 1 state recognized by the FAA, or (ii) Biman extends the wet-lease period of the 777s beyond 1 year.

Manazir: Biman will not operate to FRA/AMS/CDG anytime soon, and chances of ATH is slim as well.

There is probably more merit (and probability) in resuming FCO. Yes, no?

The sad but true fact is, no pvt airline will be able to sustain the Dhaka-London route based on only the Sylheti Bangladeshi pax, and 4H being a point-to-point airline between Dhaka and London will not be able to competitively tap into the market of pax travelling to/from points farther than London (not even with codeshares etc).

"Point-to-point airline", how so? Bound by regulation or their business model? What them or other private carriers carrying pax up to LHR (LGW) for other airlines if they have interline arrangement? Prior to the near monopoly enjoyed by EK and SQ, people used to travel by BG up to the point where BG flew, to connect to the second carrier for their final destination. Isn't that viable anymore, owing to the presence of EK/EY/SQ in DAC? If such is the case, then I really do not see any future for these private carriers because their best bet would be serve as regional carriers, plying b/w Bangladesh, India, Middle East and some Southeast Asian countries.

(ii) Biman extends the wet-lease period of the 777s beyond 1 year.
.

I thought they are leasing the B777s for 4 years/48 months?

There is probably more merit (and probability) in resuming FCO. Yes, no?

BG already operates to FCO.

BG already operates to FCO.

If I'm not mistaken FCO was suspended.

The first of the 3x 777s will be delivered in October. The other two will be delivered through the remaining months of the year.

Biman's JFK flight is most likely to be routed through MAN instead of BRU.
So, will they fly to LHR for London bound pax from DAC/ZYL, then hop to MAN for JFK?

If I'm not mistaken FCO was suspended.

maybe it WAS once, but atm, its still operating to FCO. It also shows up in wiki (wiki article for BG is updated btw).

"Point-to-point airline", how so? Bound by regulation or their business model? What them or other private carriers carrying pax up to LHR (LGW) for other airlines if they have interline arrangement? Prior to the near monopoly enjoyed by EK and SQ, people used to travel by BG up to the point where BG flew, to connect to the second carrier for their final destination. Isn't that viable anymore, owing to the presence of EK/EY/SQ in DAC? If such is the case, then I really do not see any future for these private carriers because their best bet would be serve as regional carriers, plying b/w Bangladesh, India, Middle East and some Southeast Asian countries.

As far as pax travelling onward from London is concerned, United will be able to take them to London and then have to rely on interline carriers. The problem is, fares at declared interline prorate values will be very expensive and hence uncompetitive, while undercutting it would hit the revenue bottoms. For network carriers like EK/EY/QR/BA et al, it’s much easier to offer cheaper fares simply because of the economies of scale and the greater scope of revenue optimization that is available to them.

I thought they are leasing the B777s for 4 years/48 months?

Of the 4 years, the first year is planned to be under wet-lease (ACMI+AMI) and the remaining three years is suppose to be under dry-lease. During the dry-lease period, the aircraft shall have to be operated using Biman’s AOC, which is not going to be accepted by the FAA for operations to the US.

If I'm not mistaken FCO was suspended.

Biman does operate flights to FCO, and I’m not readily certain if it is 1x or 2x weekly service.

So, will they fly to LHR for London bound pax from DAC/ZYL, then hop to MAN for JFK?

No. The 777s will probably do DAC-LHR non-stops (the inbound leg might come to DAC through ZYL), and there’ll be a separate flight that’ll do DAC-MAN-JFK.

Of the 4 years, the first year is planned to be under wet-lease (ACMI+AMI) and the remaining three years is suppose to be under dry-lease. During the dry-lease period, the aircraft shall have to be operated using Biman’s AOC, which is not going to be accepted by the FAA for operations to the US.


why is FAA so strict honestly? :nuts:

Why the md-82 of GMG airlines is still grounded at ctg airport without engines?

How long they will store it here? what will they do with this in future?

Are they planning to lease/purchase any aircraft?

When the 777-300er of biman will be dilivered? 2013 or 2011

When the 777-300er of biman will be dilivered? 2013 or 2011

the 4x ordered B777-300ERs are expected to be delivered by 2011

Wider skies for private airlines

The government will reallocate the frequency of local carriers' flights from Dhaka to London to allow private airlines a wider access to global aviation.

The move comes at a time when the capacity of local private carriers to utilise opportunities is being questioned.

As part of the move, GMG Airlines and United Airways will be able to fly twice a week on the Dhaka-London route where the carriers have no flights now. Biman Bangladesh Airlines will operate six flights instead of five, officials said.

The government has also planned to seek a revision of the air service agreement with Saudi Arabia to increase frequency from the existing 14 to 24 a week.

“We will request the Saudi Arabian authorities to raise the number of flights to give more options to local airlines to fly to the Middle East," Hedayetullah Al Mamoon, secretary of the civil aviation and tourism ministry, told The Daily Star.

“We are also making a policy on the distribution of flight frequency to local airlines to bring transparency in the allocation process."

Analysts are expressing doubts over the move to make room for four local private carriers -- three of which came in the last two years -- and their ability to tap the opportunities.

Most of these carriers suffer capacity constraints, such as in funds and aircraft.

Two carriers -- Best Air and Aviana Airways -- are grounded. Best Air was awarded permission to fly abroad last year. The carriers are facing regulatory restrictions to fly on safety issues. Troubled by a financial crisis, Best Air had also been forced to suspend its flights early this year.

The remaining two private carriers -- GMG Airlines and United Airways -- are still in operation.

Best Air and United Airways launched international flights in early 2008. Best Air had been aggressive in opening new routes. The airline began its first international flight to Bangkok in mid-2008 with its only leased Boeing-737-200. It had later opened flights to several new destinations, such as Bangkok, Colombo, Male, Dubai, Singapore and Kuala Lumpur, by discontinuing the previous ones.

For the country's oldest private carrier GMG Airlines, which began international flights in September 2004, recent statistics are not heartening, analysts said. Last year, flight suspension plagued the carrier amid aircraft and fund shortages -- a couple of months after it began operations on the Dhaka- Dubai route.

Local airliners linked much of their inabilities to last year's global oil price hike, which also hurt the global aviation industry by dampening traffic flow.

Analysts however blamed their failures on poor planning and lack of capacity.

Earlier on several occasions, the government redistributed frequency and revised air-service agreements with different countries several times to allow these private airlines to operate in the global aviation market.

Stakeholders however said much of the attempt at frequency reallocation was due to state-run Biman's failure to utilise all the frequency because of its weak and decades-old fleet and pilferage.

The analysts said a revision in air service agreements not only opened up opportunities for more local carriers to fly abroad but also enabled a greater number of foreign carriers to enter Dhaka, increasing the pressure of competition on the existing ones.

Most of the foreign carriers now have a growing market share, as local carriers are incapable to meet demand, they added.

Analysts said the government should consider the capacity of the local carriers prior to allocating flying rights in their favour. They also said the government should frame an aviation policy instead of a frequency distribution policy.

“I don't see any rationale for framing a frequency distribution policy. The government should prepare an aviation policy to direct the aviation industry,” said Kazi Wahidul Alam, editor of aviation fortnightly The Bangladesh Monitor.

Alam also expressed doubts over the private carriers' capacity to exploit the opportunities offered by the government. “I expect our local private carriers to develop. But my concern is whether will they be able to exploit the opportunities."

“The problem is, we mostly have one-way traffic, as many travellers are migrant workers,” he said. “If local carriers could offer more onward connections, travellers may be benefited."

"Local carrier will be able to survive global competition with a 'strong financial base'," Alam said. He suggested the government allow them to fly on a trial basis. "The government should take a decision, based on their performance."

Imran Asif, an aviation consultant, echoed Alam. “The government should first see whether the airline has the capacity to operate flights, before allocating frequency. The government could do it by involving stakeholders, such as bankers,” he said.

“Otherwise, if a carrier fails to continue flights, other airlines will be affected, as it creates a bad reputation,” he said.

http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=100585

Minister urges airlines to offer low-cost travels

Civil Aviation and Tourism Minister GM Quader has called upon airline operators to offer low-cost travels to both inbound and outbound travellers.

“I will request carriers to provide better services not only by maintaining schedule but also offering cheaper travel cost, which is a big factor for many travellers,” said the minister at an award giving ceremony on Friday.

The Bangladesh Monitor, an aviation and tourism fortnightly, in association with Galileo, a provider of electronic global distribution services for the travel industry, organised the function to present the award titled “Monitor-Galileo Airline of the Year 2008" at The Westin Dhaka hotel.

Airline executives, travel agents and bureaucrats were present.

Dubai-based Emirates, one of the world's biggest carriers, which offers Dhaka-Dubai and onward flights to travellers, won the Best Airline of the Year 2008 award in Bangladesh by beating two other nominees --Singapore Airlines and Thai Airways.

The organisers said the winners were selected on the basis of frequent flyers' opinion poll.

Emirates also won Best In-flight Entertainment award and Best Long Haul Airline award of the year.

It was the second consecutive year the carrier was recognised as the best airline in Bangladesh where more than 20 domestic and foreign carriers are offering flights to travellers, bulk of whom are migrant workers.

Emirates' Area Manager (Bangladesh) Hanif Zakaria received the award.

The organisers gave away a total of 12 awards under various categories with foreign carriers winning in all the segments except the domestic airline award.

GMG Airlines, the oldest domestic private carrier, got the Best Domestic Airline of the Year award by beating state-run Biman Bangladesh Airlines and non-resident Bangladeshi venture United Airways in the category.

“By declaring the winners, we are creating a sense of competition among the airlines,” said GM Quader.

Singapore Airlines won the Best Business Class Award -2008 while Etihad Airways got the Best Economy Class Award.

But the Best Inflight Meal Business Class Award 2008 went to Qatar Airways. For economy class, Malaysia Airlines won Best Inflight Meal Award.

In short-haul airline category, Thai Airways defeated Jet Airways and Singapore Airlines. Thai Airways also won the Most Favourite Frequent Flyer Programme 2008 award.

The organisers also gave away prizes to off-line airlines that provide travel services. Cathay Pacific, one of the biggest global carriers, won the Best Off-line Passenger Airline award, while Saudi Arabian Airlines clinched the Best Cargo Airline of the Year award, organisers said.

The minister said the government would like to see its entity Biman becoming a model and wining awards in such a competition.

“It is our responsibility to make Biman a model and enable it to become the best airline next year,” he said.

Among others, Principal Secretary to Prime Minister Abdul Karim, Civil Aviation and Tourism Ministry Secretary Hedayetullah Al Mamoon, The Bangladesh Monitor Editor Kazi Wahidul Alam and Managing Director of Galileo Bangladesh Anis Ahmed spoke on the occasion.

http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=100591

why is FAA so strict honestly? :nuts:

If you think the FAA is strict, you should meet the guys at the TSA!

Back to the topic, the FAA has its own safety assessment program (http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/iasa/) to determine the safety standards of each nation that is willing to let its carriers fly into the US. By all means, our CAAB is one of the most incompetent ones in the world, and if the FAA became more 'generous' and went out of its way to allow entry of carriers from such states like ours, they'd jeopardizing the overall safety of their own airspace and put the lives of millions of travellers at risk.

why is FAA so strict honestly? :nuts:
Why shouldn't they? I, along with all other residents of North America would want them to be 100% go-by-the-book agency when safety and security is one the the major concerns of the US. There is nothing nuts about it.

Why the md-82 of GMG airlines is still grounded at ctg airport without engines?

It is probably among the 2 (or three?) leased from GECAS. Its engines reached the TBO limits, and GMG didn't save enough money in reserves to carry out the task. This is exactly what I anticipate United will be facing with their MD-83 as well, as the fares they're selling at won't allow for adequate maintenance reserves to be kept aside for the major components. But of course, United can (like GMG could) do the overhaul by spending from its pockets, but then that wouldn't be the way to be in airline business.

How long they will store it here? what will they do with this in future?

Are they planning to lease/purchase any aircraft?

They're probably going to find a couple of engines to buy to put on that plane and then perhaps decide whether to fly it or to return it to the lessor.

From what we've heard, they're also looking to get B767s to fly to the ME.

When the 777-300er of biman will be dilivered? 2013 or 2011

As of now, the first 777-300ER will be delivered in Oct 2011. The remaining three would probably be delivered over 2012/2013.

The minister said the government would like to see its entity Biman becoming a model and wining awards in such a competition.

“It is our responsibility to make Biman a model and enable it to become the best airline next year,” he said.

http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=100591

Hmmpphhh...I just ain't been drinking the right kinda thing! The other day it was our friend banuthev who imagined BG to become like SQ sometime soon...and now this!

I need to drink what will make me see that all the king's horses and all the king's men could put Humpty together again...or make Biman the best airline in 2010!!

Hmmpphhh...I just ain't been drinking the right kinda thing! The other day it was our friend banuthev who imagined BG to become like SQ sometime soon...and now this!

I need to drink what will make me see that all the king's horses and all the king's men could put Humpty together again...or make Biman the best airline in 2010!!
:lol: I think you need to find out what is it that they have been smoking and get the same stuff. :)

:lol: I think you need to find out what is it that they have been smoking and get the same stuff. :)

I already have name to give it - Optimistequila! :D

^^ LMAO :lol:

Imran bhai, the minister can keep on dreaming!! it will take "AT LEAST" 10 years for BG to achieve such awards.

I think Biman's engineers have to awarded because with this kind of aging fleet they are trying and successful to keep Biman on aviation field. They are simply hero to me because for them we can see 'BOLAKA' in the air.

From me a special award for those guy.:cheer:

I think Biman's engineers have to awarded because with this kind of aging fleet they are trying and successful to keep Biman on aviation field. They are simply hero to me because for them we can see 'BOLAKA' in the air.

From me a special award for those guy.:cheer:

Thank God for it.

Biman's engineering team has been terrifyingly weak over the last 4/5 years. I have hands-on experience with these guys, and believe you me...it takes a LOT to terrify me!

I was browsing thru airliners.net, i like the way many airlines are using the new retro scheme livery on their B737/A319/A321 i think it looks kinda good. i guess BG do not have to worry about having a retro look they pretty much have it.

Thank God for it.

Biman's engineering team has been terrifyingly weak over the last 4/5 years. I have hands-on experience with these guys, and believe you me...it takes a LOT to terrify me!

You mean their knowledge and/or skills aren't good? What is lacking?

I am still wondering whether TK will operate DAC-IST flights or not. Any updates on this?
Even if they operate, what is the possible aircraft to be used, A330 or A340??

Btw guys, I have got some name suggestions for United Airways (please tell me if its good or not):

* Desh Air/ Airlines/ Airways.
* AeroBengal
* Air Eastern.
* Asian Air.
* SouthAsian Airlines.
* South Air etc.....
:)

There was already a Bangladeshi airlines named AeroBengal, though don't know the type of registration. Also, Abdullah Yousuf Harun (exFBCCI) once had plans to start an airlines with name South Asia (or Asian) airlines/airways, which is also the current name for a helicopter service provider in Dhaka.

You mean their knowledge and/or skills aren't good? What is lacking?

The current Chief Engineer's highest academic achievement is a diploma. Did I say enough?

The current Chief Engineer's highest academic achievement is a diploma. Did I say enough?

:uh:

There was already a Bangladeshi airlines named AeroBengal, though don't know the type of registration. Also, Abdullah Yousuf Harun (exFBCCI) once had plans to start an airlines with name South Asia (or Asian) airlines/airways, which is also the current name for a helicopter service provider in Dhaka.

I think Desh Airways sounds best :)

^^Since their call sign is United Bangladesh, why not just cal them "UNITED BANGLADESH AIRWAYS" Just add Bangladesh, and all will be well.

The current Chief Engineer's highest academic achievement is a diploma. Did I say enough?


i think you gotta give it to the guys. tehy have to deal with aging aircrafts and god fiddens BG havent had any incident or a crash where it was due to maintance fault or error.

In Bangladesh there is no institute that gives BSc or related degree in the field of aviation. And a graduate or postgraduate, do you guys believe that they will join Biman after graduation.

My friends father, got graduation in Aeronautical engineering. He is now in Malaysia. He got offer from Biman but he refuse it.

So a Diploma man, Repairing DC-10, F-28.
What a experience.

^^Since their call sign is United Bangladesh, why not just cal them "UNITED BANGLADESH AIRWAYS" Just add Bangladesh, and all will be well.

Why are we still discussing this? I thought a new thread has been opened for the fantasy game.

In Bangladesh there is no institute that gives BSc or related degree in the field of aviation. And a graduate or postgraduate, do you guys believe that they will join Biman after graduation.

My friends father, got graduation in Aeronautical engineering. He is now in Malaysia. He got offer from Biman but he refuse it.

So a Diploma man, Repairing DC-10, F-28.
What a experience.

Yes, that is correct but the Chief Engineer need not be an aeronautical engineer. He ought to be a four engineering degree holder with AME certifications and experience. The actual hands-on maintenance personnel ought to be properly trained and certified.

I do not know whether the practice continues today but traditionally, Biman's flight engineers used to be BUET graduates. I thought that was an overkill and a waste of a four year engineering degree.

^^Since their call sign is United Bangladesh, why not just cal them "UNITED BANGLADESH AIRWAYS" Just add Bangladesh, and all will be well.

"UNITED BANGLADESH AIRWAYS" would be too long to write in the fuselage of the aircrafts, therefore I disagree, but I think when a name is changed, u can change the callsign aswell!

Why are we still discussing this? I thought a new thread has been opened for the fantasy game.

true but seems like no one is interested lol :nuts:

whats gonna happen when the new aircrafts arrive. will it be the same engineers doing the maintance work on the 777ER and the 787? many of the BG maintance crew are experienced on the DC-10 and F-100 will they no their way around the new aircrafts?

the Boeing will give necessary training for this. But thing is that political gov give appointment the political person of Biman specially in the engineering dept.

It was cool at the caretaker gov time. but now things are happening very slowly.

Biman will get the 60% market if they can start DAC-LHR route with 777 once or twice a week. In my office the foreigner and the rich Bangladeshi choose EMIRATS or now QATAR from LOndon-DAC air travel.

But the middle class choose Biman or sometimes students who want to save money and carry more baggage.
when Biman ordered 777 will come there will be a little bit problem to manage 463 passengers. However,on that time Biman can't reduce fair because they have to pay EXIM bank for Loan.

What you guys thinking ?

the Boeing will give necessary training for this. But thing is that political gov give appointment the political person of Biman specially in the engineering dept.

It was cool at the caretaker gov time. but now things are happening very slowly.

Biman will get the 60% market if they can start DAC-LHR route with 777 once or twice a week. In my office the foreigner and the rich Bangladeshi choose EMIRATS or now QATAR from LOndon-DAC air travel.

But the middle class choose Biman or sometimes students who want to save money and carry more baggage.
when Biman ordered 777 will come there will be a little bit problem to manage 463 passengers. However,on that time Biman can't reduce fair because they have to pay EXIM bank for Loan.

What you guys thinking ?

if BG keeps the current fare then thats not a problem many people choose to go by EK,EY,QR,9W due to service and ontime schedule. biman needs to improve on these department to be able to gain back at least 40/50% its PAX. what i am concerned about is will there be a ZYL route on the 777 if so how will they operate the route with a 777? will it be a LHR-DAC-ZYL with a change of aircraft at DAC to an A310/F100 or will it be the same aircraft. also i dont see the need of a 777 having a technical stop over at DXB. and i hope they dont plan to add DXB on the route. and another is ZYL capable of handling a 773ER

whats gonna happen when the new aircrafts arrive. will it be the same engineers doing the maintance work on the 777ER and the 787? many of the BG maintance crew are experienced on the DC-10 and F-100 will they no their way around the new aircrafts?

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd236/TheCoolOnes/777-plan.jpg

nice that Boeing will provide all the relavent training to BG.

The southern region has no air links now, as United Airways, the lone private airline that was in operation on Dhaka-Barisal route until May 5, suspended its flights from the capital in the face of passenger shortage.

The airline took off this domestic route in September last year. Initially it flew thrice a week to Barisal, the southern divisional headquarters.

The Barisal Airport now looks deserted because no airline continues any flight to the city.

According to United's regional office, it received lukewarm response from the air travellers even after halving the rate of one-way fare it offered to them. At the beginning, the fare was Tk 4,495, but later it was reduced to Tk 2,250.

Hassan, in-charge of the Barisal office, said, “Ten passengers make the one-way trip, whereas the occupancy capacity in each flight is 37. Such a dearth of travellers has made the operation financially unviable.”

Meanwhile, locals demanded immediate resumption of national airline Biman's flights to this route.

Before United Airways, another private airline GMG Airlines suspended its flights on the Dhaka-Barisal route.

The operation of its flights came to a halt since October 28,2006.

Barisal City Corporation Mayor Shawkat Hossain Hiron also shared the people's sentiment for Biman's flights resumption.

The fights of the national carrier were introduced here in April, 2003.

http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=100874

if BG keeps the current fare then thats not a problem many people choose to go by EK,EY,QR,9W due to service and ontime schedule. biman needs to improve on these department to be able to gain back at least 40/50% its PAX. what i am concerned about is will there be a ZYL route on the 777 if so how will they operate the route with a 777? will it be a LHR-DAC-ZYL with a change of aircraft at DAC to an A310/F100 or will it be the same aircraft. also i dont see the need of a 777 having a technical stop over at DXB. and i hope they dont plan to add DXB on the route. and another is ZYL capable of handling a 773ER

I guess after BG receives the B777s, they can (hopefully) make in on-time and also, on the new aircrafts, there would be modern in-flight services. Fare is not a great problem I guess when ppl can fly EK, EY, and QR alot :P

Also, its no point using a 77W (B777-300ER) in DAC-LHR route if it needs a so-called "technical stop" at DXB.

I dunno if BG will use DAC-ZYL-LHR or not. What was their LHR route before??

....

I dunno if BG will use DAC-ZYL-LHR or not. What was their LHR route before??

If I'm not mistaken direct flights to/from ZYL to London airports (or least LHR) is not permitted per the air services agreement between Bangladesh and UK. It was GoB (on behalf of BG) doing to put in the clause in order to prevent BA from operating direct flights to ZYL, thereby protecting BG's turf. GoB ought to re-negotiate ASA with UK to allow for direct services to ZYL.

I guess after BG receives the B777s, they can (hopefully) make in on-time and also, on the new aircrafts, there would be modern in-flight services. Fare is not a great problem I guess when ppl can fly EK, EY, and QR alot :P

Also, its no point using a 77W (B777-300ER) in DAC-LHR route if it needs a so-called "technical stop" at DXB.

I dunno if BG will use DAC-ZYL-LHR or not. What was their LHR route before??


BG current london route is LHR-DXB-DAC-ZYL vice versa total travel time is around 15 hours. BG uses the A310 on this route which is understandable to have a technical stop at DXB. i remember a few years ago i got the the DC10 the route was LHR-DAC (9HRS) then transit flight DAC-ZYL on a 737 also didnt have to wait long at DAC i think the total journey time was 11HRS 30MIN. downside to this route was that i got my luggages a week later.

i hope BG can do the LHR-DAC-ZYL route and maybe see a growth on it PAX. only doubt i have is that can ZYL Handle 773ER. Brother Asif what do you say?

only doubt i have is that can ZYL Handle 773ER. Brother Asif what do you say?

ZYL can handle the 777-300ER only under certain limited conditions, not in general. Here the explanation:

- Until ZYL has a refuelling facility, ZYL-LHR won't be possible, so let's look at LHR-ZYL instead.

- Considering full structural payload of 65.7 tons, 85% winds, and annual enroute wind/temps, the 777-300ER will burn roughly 80 tons of fuel on the LHR-ZYL leg and the landing weight therefore will be approximately 250 tons.

- At 250 tons, the 777-300ER would have an ACN of 46 for flexible subgrade C pavements, whereas the runway at ZYL has the lower PCN of 40. This means that under these conditions, the 777-300ER will be stressful for the runway. In order to match the PCN of 40 with an ACN of 40, the 777-300ER would have to have a landing weight of about 207 tons, meaning a loss of structural payload of almost 23 tons - equivalent to 35% of structural payload.

- Strangely as one would expect, the taxiways and the apron area of ZYL has an even lower PCN of just 20!

ZYL can handle the 777-300ER only under certain limited conditions, not in general. Here the explanation:

- Until ZYL has a refuelling facility, ZYL-LHR won't be possible, so let's look at LHR-ZYL instead.

- Considering full structural payload of 65.7 tons, 85% winds, and annual enroute wind/temps, the 777-300ER will burn roughly 80 tons of fuel on the LHR-ZYL leg and the landing weight therefore will be approximately 250 tons.

- At 250 tons, the 777-300ER would have an ACN of 46 for flexible subgrade C pavements, whereas the runway at ZYL has the lower PCN of 40. This means that under these conditions, the 777-300ER will be stressful for the runway. In order to match the PCN of 40 with an ACN of 40, the 777-300ER would have to have a landing weight of about 207 tons, meaning a loss of structural payload of almost 23 tons - equivalent to 35% of structural payload.

- Strangely as one would expect, the taxiways and the apron area of ZYL has an even lower PCN of just 20!


So much for ZYL being a international airport, full of bulls@@t.:bash:

ZYL can handle the 777-300ER only under certain limited conditions, not in general. Here the explanation:

- Until ZYL has a refuelling facility, ZYL-LHR won't be possible, so let's look at LHR-ZYL instead.

- Considering full structural payload of 65.7 tons, 85% winds, and annual enroute wind/temps, the 777-300ER will burn roughly 80 tons of fuel on the LHR-ZYL leg and the landing weight therefore will be approximately 250 tons.

- At 250 tons, the 777-300ER would have an ACN of 46 for flexible subgrade C pavements, whereas the runway at ZYL has the lower PCN of 40. This means that under these conditions, the 777-300ER will be stressful for the runway. In order to match the PCN of 40 with an ACN of 40, the 777-300ER would have to have a landing weight of about 207 tons, meaning a loss of structural payload of almost 23 tons - equivalent to 35% of structural payload.

- Strangely as one would expect, the taxiways and the apron area of ZYL has an even lower PCN of just 20!

so my question is why wasnt ZYL infrastructure designed to handle a B777? as Akbar1 mentioned is ZYL really a International airport?

so my question is why wasnt ZYL infrastructure designed to handle a B777? as Akbar1 mentioned is ZYL really a International airport?

Obviously not. ZYL was upgraded to handle A310 and DC10, which I believe wasn't shortsighted rather deliberate. That way more funds could be pocketed for yet another much needed upgrade to accommodate 777s. Brilliant!

when u look at ZYL and CGP from Google Earth, u cant call them some "international" airport really

Brother Asif once BG recieves their 787 (i no its a long way to go) and with ZYL current infrastructure. will it be the same as it is for the 777ER? also as 4H is planning to acquire a 767 its London route. is ZYL able to handle a 767?

CAAB again definitly needs to upgrade ZYL intime for the 777 & 787

787 will take a long time to come.If Biman can lease 787 within 2014 then it will be used for LHR. Because 777 is problem for Sylhet Airport and arranging 463 passenger. But as fer I know GOV take a step for increasing runway for both Zyl ang Sylhet.

It should take time but GOV is slow to take decisions which make it uncertain. But 767 is not suitable for BIman I think. 787 is better. It will also use for Tokyo in Future.

when u look at ZYL and CGP from Google Earth, u cant call them some "international" airport really

There are many airports like those (in appearance, capabilities etc.) around the globe that are deemed "international". Some are even worse.

There are many airports like those (in appearance, capabilities etc.) around the globe that are deemed "international". Some are even worse.


yeah thats very true. i've also witness a airport that is slightly smaller then ZYL, RHO airport (rhodes)

^^ indeed.

Brother Asif once BG recieves their 787 (i no its a long way to go) and with ZYL current infrastructure. will it be the same as it is for the 777ER? also as 4H is planning to acquire a 767 its London route. is ZYL able to handle a 767?

CAAB again definitly needs to upgrade ZYL intime for the 777 & 787

If BG receives its B787s by 2019, hopefully by that time, ZYL will be a much better airport then. We may also see foreign carriers operating to ZYL by 2019/2020. So there wont prolly be a problem of opearting any type of aircrafts.

787 will take a long time to come.If Biman can lease 787 within 2014 then it will be used for LHR. Because 777 is problem for Sylhet Airport and arranging 463 passenger. But as fer I know GOV take a step for increasing runway for both Zyl ang Sylhet.
It should take time but GOV is slow to take decisions which make it uncertain. But 767 is not suitable for BIman I think. 787 is better. It will also use for Tokyo in Future.

theres no need to extend the 3.2 km long runway at ZYL, its enough.

ZYL is the airport at Sylhet lol, so "both ZYL & SYlhet" means the same thing bro :P

I wouldnt prefer B767 for any Bangladeshi airlines, not just BG. There are better aircrafts than B767, obviously B787 is far better. Yes, BG shall resume NRT route when they have no aircraft problems.

Bangladesh is safe after earth quake.:storm:

I have mistaken ZYL. I mean ZYL as Zia International.

Why you all guys only talking about Sylhet not chittagong airport.
It need modern refueling system at first. As Calcutta- in these two airport gov can reduce JEt Fuel price.

Any update 747 for HAJJ.

theres no need to extend the 3.2 km long runway at ZYL, its enough.

ZYL is the airport at Sylhet lol, so "both ZYL & SYlhet" means the same thing bro :P

I wouldnt prefer B767 for any Bangladeshi airlines, not just BG. There are better aircrafts than B767, obviously B787 is far better. Yes, BG shall resume NRT route when they have no aircraft problems.

Well i guess everyone should try to own some modern aircrafts but in case of Bangladesh, where the newest aircrraft they own is a 310, 767 should be a dream come true:)

Sorry to interupt, but i congratulate Bangladesh on their 2 stunning victory against Zimbabwe. Carry on!!!

Sorry to interupt, but i congratulate Bangladesh on their 2 stunning victory against Zimbabwe. Carry on!!!

Bangladesh needs more player like Shakib Al Hassan.

but lets stick to avaition matters.

787 will take a long time to come.If Biman can lease 787 within 2014 then it will be used for LHR. Because 777 is problem for Sylhet Airport and arranging 463 passenger. But as fer I know GOV take a step for increasing runway for both Zyl ang Sylhet.

It should take time but GOV is slow to take decisions which make it uncertain. But 767 is not suitable for BIman I think. 787 is better. It will also use for Tokyo in Future.

BG lost many PAX due to their own fault. many bangladesi abroad were happy to travel by BG due to the service, schedule, and the arrival of their baggage and many more. many PAX opt out for BG and started using foreign carriers. although biman will be getting mordern aircrafts soon it will still be a very long way until they can have a full load on their aircraft.

Bangladesh needs more player like Shakib Al Hassan.

but lets stick to avaition matters.

Sorry:)

BG lost many PAX due to their own fault. many bangladesi abroad were happy to travel by BG due to the service, schedule, and the arrival of their baggage and many more. many PAX opt out for BG and started using foreign carriers. although biman will be getting mordern aircrafts soon it will still be a very long way until they can have a full load on their aircraft.

The only way for BG to attract passengers is to cut their fare, because in terms of Flight service, Schedule, entertainment, comfort, it is impossible to beat carriers like, Emirates, Singapore, BA, Thai and so on. BG should offer low cost fares inorder to get more payloads..
Why would i be travelling BG if i can travel with EK for less fare?

The only way for BG to attract passengers is to cut their fare, because in terms of Flight service, Schedule, entertainment, comfort, it is impossible to beat carriers like, Emirates, Singapore, BA, Thai and so on. BG should offer low cost fares inorder to get more payloads..
Why would i be travelling BG if i can travel with EK for less fare?

BG is slight cheaper then any other carrier. BG would cost £560 (LHR-DXB-DAC-ZYL) on a Y Class with a Baggage allowance of 40kg whereas EK would cost around £670+/-(LHR-DXB-DAC) baggage allowance of 30kg correct me if i am wrong. i think biman should lower their Baggage allowance. reason why is payload. higher the payload more fuel. but then again baggage allowance is what attracts many bangladeshis to fly with BG.

theres no need to extend the 3.2 km long runway at ZYL, its enough.

ZYL is the airport at Sylhet lol, so "both ZYL & SYlhet" means the same thing bro :P

I wouldnt prefer B767 for any Bangladeshi airlines, not just BG. There are better aircrafts than B767, obviously B787 is far better. Yes, BG shall resume NRT route when they have no aircraft problems.

For airlines who can't afford to (i) spend enough for the 787, or (ii) wait for it almost indefinitely, the B767 is actually a very good choice for its size. The 787 is a gem of an aircraft, but it requires special skills for an airline to possess to be able to operate it...for example, expertise on maintenance of composite materials. Even BG would have a hard time learning to do the job, and the local pvt carriers would be completely clueless judging by their current state of affairs. The 767 is a much simpler aircraft to operate from that point of view, and still offers a great value for the price you'd have to pay!

For airlines who can't afford to (i) spend enough for the 787, or (ii) wait for it almost indefinitely, the B767 is actually a very good choice for its size. The 787 is a gem of an aircraft, but it requires special skills for an airline to possess to be able to operate it...for example, expertise on maintenance of composite materials. Even BG would have a hard time learning to do the job, and the local pvt carriers would be completely clueless judging by their current state of affairs. The 767 is a much simpler aircraft to operate from that point of view, and still offers a great value for the price you'd have to pay!

787 is a pie in the sky for all Bangladeshi carriers. Lucky for BG being government owned that they were able to purchase a few. We will have to wait and see what kind of a job they do with the maintenance, once they are in service. I'm sure Imran Asif would be one of the very few to find out, first!

Just spent about ten days in Dhaka .. wanted to share these photos with you guys:

http://www.airlinefan.com/photos/memberdir206/watermarked/medium_wm_2124833.jpg
http://www.airlinefan.com/photos/memberdir206/watermarked/medium_wm_8950262.jpg
http://www.airlinefan.com/photos/memberdir206/watermarked/medium_wm_1304597.jpg

http://www.airlinefan.com/photos/memberdir206/watermarked/medium_wm_1841722.jpg
http://www.airlinefan.com/photos/memberdir206/watermarked/medium_wm_1863188.jpg
http://www.airlinefan.com/photos/memberdir206/watermarked/medium_wm_8417406.jpg

http://www.airlinefan.com/photos/memberdir206/watermarked/medium_wm_2016367.jpg
http://www.airlinefan.com/photos/memberdir206/watermarked/medium_wm_1094130.jpg
http://www.airlinefan.com/photos/memberdir206/watermarked/medium_wm_1940581.jpg

Just spent about ten days in Dhaka .. wanted to share these photos with you guys:

http://www.airlinefan.com/photos/memberdir206/watermarked/medium_wm_2124833.jpg
http://www.airlinefan.com/photos/memberdir206/watermarked/medium_wm_8950262.jpg
http://www.airlinefan.com/photos/memberdir206/watermarked/medium_wm_1304597.jpg

http://www.airlinefan.com/photos/memberdir206/watermarked/medium_wm_1841722.jpg
http://www.airlinefan.com/photos/memberdir206/watermarked/medium_wm_1863188.jpg
http://www.airlinefan.com/photos/memberdir206/watermarked/medium_wm_8417406.jpg

http://www.airlinefan.com/photos/memberdir206/watermarked/medium_wm_2016367.jpg
http://www.airlinefan.com/photos/memberdir206/watermarked/medium_wm_1094130.jpg
http://www.airlinefan.com/photos/memberdir206/watermarked/medium_wm_1940581.jpg

Thanks for sharing....great photos.

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc

For airlines who can't afford to (i) spend enough for the 787, or (ii) wait for it almost indefinitely, the B767 is actually a very good choice for its size. The 787 is a gem of an aircraft, but it requires special skills for an airline to possess to be able to operate it...for example, expertise on maintenance of composite materials. Even BG would have a hard time learning to do the job, and the local pvt carriers would be completely clueless judging by their current state of affairs. The 767 is a much simpler aircraft to operate from that point of view, and still offers a great value for the price you'd have to pay!

Wasn't it that the Continental 764ER's that had 777 undercarriages, cockpits and CF6 engines (similar to the BG DC-10's) ? Can some older ones be found on the market?

Imran bhai, sometimes u can take sum photos for us too ;)

The southern region has no air links now, as United Airways, the lone private airline that was in operation on Dhaka-Barisal route until May 5, suspended its flights from the capital in the face of passenger shortage.

The airline took off this domestic route in September last year. Initially it flew thrice a week to Barisal, the southern divisional headquarters.

The Barisal Airport now looks deserted because no airline continues any flight to the city.

According to United's regional office, it received lukewarm response from the air travellers even after halving the rate of one-way fare it offered to them. At the beginning, the fare was Tk 4,495, but later it was reduced to Tk 2,250.

Hassan, in-charge of the Barisal office, said, “Ten passengers make the one-way trip, whereas the occupancy capacity in each flight is 37. Such a dearth of travellers has made the operation financially unviable.”

Meanwhile, locals demanded immediate resumption of national airline Biman's flights to this route.

Before United Airways, another private airline GMG Airlines suspended its flights on the Dhaka-Barisal route.

The operation of its flights came to a halt since October 28,2006.

Barisal City Corporation Mayor Shawkat Hossain Hiron also shared the people's sentiment for Biman's flights resumption.

The fights of the national carrier were introduced here in April, 2003.

http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=100874

Well the story was different when Biman first started Barisal service. At tk600 oneway deal getting a ticket on the once a week flight was reason enough to smile all the way to barisal. Ofcourse things have changed later. As price went up load factor went down. Unless there is some divine intervention to lower the price ..........I think service to barisal is done for good.

The pictures are all about 737-800, 330-200,777 and DC-10 isn't it ?

Nice pic. Thank you

Biman has also ordered 737-800, which will use for regional route. But it is not suitable for Kualalampur or Singapore. Because all the worker carry more baggage which will not carried by 738. Biman also has a all economy dense (189) seating plan for it. But most of the time the seats can't be filled by pax because of low capacity of baggage in 738.

Also it is not comfortable for the pax. If it will 175seat that means all economy standerd then it will be suitable for all.

Another thing Biman can also buy 2 Q300 and one 737-400 from some airline like British Airways, United Air (USA) etc.

Q300 which is 8 years old that will cost about 6-7 million us$(where the new Q400 cost about 25-27 million us$). and 12 years old 737-400 will cost 20-22 million US$(Brand new 737-600 costs about 45-48 million US$).

Both of the aircart run well for a long time. Biman can use Q300 in the domestic route as well as BARMA route. And 737-400 can be used for calcatta and Dellhi and Katmandu.

Then 175 seated 737-800 can be run on the other regoinal route(some time dubai) smoothly.

THis is important because no of flight between the regoinal routes will increased day by day and only two 737-800 is not enough.
And after retairment of F-28, 737-800 will not econmy to fullfill the domestic route.

Total 34 Million US$ (238 core taka) will improve the subcontinent and domestic route.

As GOV plan to take 2000 core taka from the Share market and from the PROBASHI investment. So I calculate it.

We love Bangladesh so we think a lot for it when we get time and share it to all.:banana:

Imran bhai, sometimes u can take sum photos for us too ;)

Yeah, we have not seen your great photos of late. We want more!

Best,

Wasim / Planemannyc

Well the story was different when Biman first started Barisal service. At tk600 oneway deal getting a ticket on the once a week flight was reason enough to smile all the way to barisal. Ofcourse things have changed later. As price went up load factor went down. Unless there is some divine intervention to lower the price ..........I think service to barisal is done for good.

i think the BZL should be handed over to the Bangladesh Airport Force where there can do their training.

i just had a look at CAAB website. having a look at airports in bangladesh section they mention. It is now possible to operate wide-bodied aircrafts like Boeing 474-400 is this a typo or do they think theres an aircraft called Boeing 474-400?

i think the BZL should be handed over to the Bangladesh Airport Force where there can do their training.

All airports in Bangladesh, except perhaps VZGR, are joint civil and military operation. BAF can use any airfield at will, again, save for ZIA, owing to daily schedule of moderate amount of (international) traffic.

when i went to bangladesh in april this year i saw BAF doin their trainingin zia.

Guys, The government were looking for a place to make a new airport, cant they just use the tejgaon airport area and make a new one there?

BG is slight cheaper then any other carrier. BG would cost £560 (LHR-DXB-DAC-ZYL) on a Y Class with a Baggage allowance of 40kg whereas EK would cost around £670+/-(LHR-DXB-DAC) baggage allowance of 30kg correct me if i am wrong. i think biman should lower their Baggage allowance. reason why is payload. higher the payload more fuel. but then again baggage allowance is what attracts many bangladeshis to fly with BG.

You are probably right but here from North America, they offer extrememly high fair these days, last time i went to BD, BG offered the cheapest fare on the route, YYZ-LHR-DAC-LHR-YYC

now the proce has doubled for some reason, can u tell me why they have changed?
BG is currently the quickest and easiest option for a lot of ppl except the fare

You are probably right but here from North America, they offer extrememly high fair these days, last time i went to BD, BG offered the cheapest fare on the route, YYZ-LHR-DAC-LHR-YYC

now the proce has doubled for some reason, can u tell me why they have changed?
BG is currently the quickest and easiest option for a lot of ppl except the fare

YYZ-LHR-DAC-LHR-YYC are these connecting flights? only reason i can think of is the price of the fuel has gone up. EK is quite cheap on a Y class from YYZ-DAC is gonna cost you around $1467.58(£811). considering Toronto is alot further then LHR. LHR-DAC is around £660 Y class.

Recent Pictures from ZIA

Just spent about ten days in Dhaka .. wanted to share these photos with you guys:


Thanks for sharing the Dhaka Airport photos with us. :)

By the way any body know if Biman Airlines is planning to change the existing livery. It was introduced in 1980. They could changed it now. But stylised white stork inside a red circle should remain.

All airports in Bangladesh, except perhaps VZGR, are joint civil and military operation. BAF can use any airfield at will, again, save for ZIA, owing to daily schedule of moderate amount of (international) traffic.

And yet, the largest (and practically the only) tactical air base of Bangladesh Air Force is located in ZIA (BAF Base Kurmitola) housing 4 fighter and 1 transport squadrons... with only one runway available at ZIA, this has almost become a must to shift the air base to some other unused/less used airport.

As for other air ports, BAF shares Chittagong and Jessor with civil traffic, while Bogra, Nilphamari and Shamshernagar are used exclusively (and Tejgaon off course... if you call that an airport...:)). To the best of my knowledge, BAF doesn't use Sylhet, Cox's Bazar, Rajshahi, Syedpur or Barisal, though according to news report published couple of days back in Daily Star, BAF expressed their desire to use CXB as one of their forward base. Bangladesh Navy has plan to operate their Maritime Patrol/Strike Aircrafts from CGP, CXB and BZL.

It will look better if Biman is in new colours. Recently i have sent some of the aircraft designs to the Biman Headoffice. I hope they may like it.

Here is one of the design. I am sorry for the picture quality.
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/391/bimanbanuthev.png

It will look better if Biman is in new colours. Recently i have sent some of the aircraft designs to the Biman Headoffice. I hope they may like it.

Here is one of the design. I am sorry for the picture quality.
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9171/bimanbanuthev.jpg

i hope they do like it. many airlines are using the retro livery on their 737/A319/20. maybe BG can keep the existing livery.

And yet, the largest (and practically the only) tactical air base of Bangladesh Air Force is located in ZIA (BAF Base Kurmitola) housing 4 fighter and 1 transport squadrons... with only one runway available at ZIA, this has almost become a must to shift the air base to some other unused/less used airport.

As for other air ports, BAF shares Chittagong and Jessor with civil traffic, while Bogra, Nilphamari and Shamshernagar are used exclusively (and Tejgaon off course... if you call that an airport...:)). To the best of my knowledge, BAF doesn't use Sylhet, Cox's Bazar, Rajshahi, Syedpur or Barisal, though according to news report published couple of days back in Daily Star, BAF expressed their desire to use CXB as one of their forward base. Bangladesh Navy has plan to operate their Maritime Patrol/Strike Aircrafts from CGP, CXB and BZL.


As i mentioned before maybe BAF should concentrate on doing their training in BZL. since there will not be any flights coming in for a very long time. why not make the most out of it. let ZIA just concentrate on the Int flights.

Shamshernagar isnt that the old Sylhet airport?

Also does anyone no what kind of jet BAF is using and its quantity?

Shamshernagar isnt that the old Sylhet airport?

No, Shamshernagar (ICAO: VGSH, IATA: ZHM) is located in Srimangal area and was a STOL port before BAF upgraded that to be used as a forward base. The existing Osmani international airport is the extension of the old Sylhet airport and located in Sylhet.

Also does anyone no what kind of jet BAF is using and its quantity?

BAF has 5 fighter squadrons - 2 comprises of F-7 BG/MB and FT-7 (sqd no. 5 and 35), 1 with A5III and FT-6 (sqd no. 21), 1 with Mig-29SE and Mig-29UB (sqd no. 8) and 1 with L-39ZA and FT-6 (sqd no. 25). Exact number of operational aircraft is anybody's guess as no air force will reveal its actual inventory. You will get all sorts of contradictory and fictitious info in net (the most ridicules ones in wikipedia - as usual), but roughly BAF has 160 operational aircraft (both rotary and fixed wing) according to recent media report (http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=100567). Approximately 72 of them being combat aircraft/helicopters with rest being training, transport and all-purpose helicopters.

No, Shamshernagar (ICAO: VGSH, IATA: ZHM) is located in Srimangal area and was a STOL port before BAF upgraded that to be used as a forward base. The existing Osmani international airport is the extension of the old Sylhet airport and located in Sylhet.

oh i thought i heard from my relatives in BD that before osmani airport Shamshernagar was the only airport in sylhet and there use to be some domestic flights operating from Dhaka to Shamshernagar. may be i heard it wrong.



BAF has 5 fighter squadrons - 2 comprises of F-7 BG/MB and FT-7 (sqd no. 5 and 35), 1 with A5III and FT-6 (sqd no. 21), 1 with Mig-29SE and Mig-29UB (sqd no. 8) and 1 with L-39ZA and FT-6 (sqd no. 25). Exact number of operational aircraft is anybody's guess as no air force will reveal its actual inventory. You will get all sorts of contradictory and fictitious info in net (the most ridicules ones in wikipedia - as usual), but roughly BAF has 160 operational aircraft (both rotary and fixed wing) according to recent media report (http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=100567). Approximately 72 of them being combat aircraft/helicopters with rest being training, transport and all-purpose helicopters.

wow they do have loads of russians and chinese Bird there if i am correct.

I flew DAC-KUL-DAC twice in the month of July. I had mixed experience in three out of the four flights:

A. DAC-KUL: everything was great except the cabin-crew seemed a little rude

B. KUL-DAC: great, no complaints

C1. DAC-KUL: flight diverted to BKK due to heavy rainfall in DAC (http://www.newagebd.com/2009/jul/30/fb.html); MH's DAC staff were great!

C2. DAC-KUL: 4 passengers had their seat numbers assigned to 4 additional passengers. Flight held back while MH tried to offload the 4 who boarded after the first 4 had taken their seats even though business class had seats; of the 4 un-lucky ones, two were a couple flying on to Melbourne from KUL on MH. The MH ground staff passed the responsibility onto the captain who then tried to throw out the 4 by saying it was MH's company policy not to upgrade. When the passengers got agitated, the crew acquiesced and we left Dhaka over an hour later than scheduled. The airline provided no apology or explanation for the delay.

D. KUL-DAC: again several passengers had their seat numbers assigned to more than one person - including myself. When I made a remark about this becoming a habit with MH, the flight supervisor tried to tell me that this happens in places like London and New York too ... I simply said that it had not happened to me in my 30 years of air-travel.

Anyway, I got an upgrade to the business class - but by then I was quite upset by the BS the flight supervisor tried to peddle my way which was deeply insulting. The service wasn't too bad but the meal was appalling. The final icing on the cake came when the stewardess tried to tell me to get off my cellphone - AFTER the aircraft had exited the active runway in DAC.

Throughout, the cabin crew were quite rude to Bangladeshi passengers. All the while, there was a Caucasian couple in business class who seemed to be treated like royalty by the same crew. The whole charade was extremely offensive. Interestingly, this same Caucasian couple tried to enter the arrival hall at ZIA through the VIP door and were turned away by the on-duty guards .. to my great amusement.

So the question I pose to others in this forum, is whether there is a passenger charter that Bangladesh enforces on airlines on how they treat passengers to and from Bangladesh? Let's face it, most of the travelers flying in and out of ZIA are Bangladeshis who work overseas and send remittances approaching $10bn p.a. (http://blogs.worldbank.org/endpovertyinsouthasia/remittances-bangladesh-determinants-and-2010-outlook-0).

Should airlines be allowed to get away with treating these workers with indignity?

I will probably not fly MH for a while. May be its their incompetence with the seat allocation system ... may be its coincidental that I faced the same incompetence by Malaysian Airlines twice in one week - first in Dhaka, then in Kuala Lumpur ... may be ... may be .. may be ..

May be airlines like MH who earn a good chunk of money by ferrying Bangladeshis in and out of Dhaka ought to be a little more polite?

I flew DAC-KUL-DAC twice in the month of July. I had mixed experience in three out of the four flights:

A. DAC-KUL: everything was great except the cabin-crew seemed a little rude

B. KUL-DAC: great, no complaints

C1. DAC-KUL: flight diverted to BKK due to heavy rainfall in DAC (http://www.newagebd.com/2009/jul/30/fb.html); MH's DAC staff were great!

C2. DAC-KUL: 4 passengers had their seat numbers assigned to 4 additional passengers. Flight held back while MH tried to offload the 4 who boarded after the first 4 had taken their seats even though business class had seats; of the 4 un-lucky ones, two were a couple flying on to Melbourne from KUL on MH. The MH ground staff passed the responsibility onto the captain who then tried to throw out the 4 by saying it was MH's company policy not to upgrade. When the passengers got agitated, the crew acquiesced and we left Dhaka over an hour later than scheduled. The airline provided no apology or explanation for the delay.

D. KUL-DAC: again several passengers had their seat numbers assigned to more than one person - including myself. When I made a remark about this becoming a habit with MH, the flight supervisor tried to tell me that this happens in places like London and New York too ... I simply said that it had not happened to me in my 30 years of air-travel.

Anyway, I got an upgrade to the business class - but by then I was quite upset by the BS the flight supervisor tried to peddle my way which was deeply insulting. The service wasn't too bad but the meal was appalling. The final icing on the cake came when the stewardess tried to tell me to get off my cellphone - AFTER the aircraft had exited the active runway in DAC.

Throughout, the cabin crew were quite rude to Bangladeshi passengers. All the while, there was a Caucasian couple in business class who seemed to be treated like royalty by the same crew. The whole charade was extremely offensive. Interestingly, this same Caucasian couple tried to enter the arrival hall at ZIA through the VIP door and were turned away by the on-duty guards .. to my great amusement.

So the question I pose to others in this forum, is whether there is a passenger charter that Bangladesh enforces on airlines on how they treat passengers to and from Bangladesh? Let's face it, most of the travelers flying in and out of ZIA are Bangladeshis who work overseas and send remittances approaching $10bn p.a. (http://blogs.worldbank.org/endpovertyinsouthasia/remittances-bangladesh-determinants-and-2010-outlook-0).

Should airlines be allowed to get away with treating these workers with indignity?

I will probably not fly MH for a while. May be its their incompetence with the seat allocation system ... may be its coincidental that I faced the same incompetence by Malaysian Airlines twice in one week - first in Dhaka, then in Kuala Lumpur ... may be ... may be .. may be ..

May be airlines like MH who earn a good chunk of money by ferrying Bangladeshis in and out of Dhaka ought to be a little more polite?

Did you make your feelings known to MH in writing and did you have your complaints/grievances published in newspapers in DAC and KUL?

Apart from what amar11372 has said, the quality of discussion in part 4 was also to some extent scattered, primarily due to the timing and much shorter duration than the previous three. BD aviation sector largely remained barren during this time with nothing exciting happened. Hopefully part 5 will be more eventful as BG is going to add some new generation bird in its fleet…:okay:


I think it was due to the fact that most people at the end of the thread were talking about imagine airline in Bangladesh, the fleet the routes, I most would rather talk about the airlines in Bangladesh not fictional ones

There are hordes of Potential passengers who will forgo "comforts" for cheaper tickets, assuming UA's is the lowest.

I did just recently flying Air Asia

PER - KUL
KUL - DAC - KUL
KUL - Shenzehen - KUL
KUL - HGK - KUL
KUL - SIN - KUL
KUL - PER

Happy to be home

It will look better if Biman is in new colours. Recently i have sent some of the aircraft designs to the Biman Headoffice. I hope they may like it.

Here is one of the design. I am sorry for the picture quality.


Nice Design Banuthev ! A more contemporary look but still bowing to tradition...

I flew DAC-KUL-DAC twice in the month of July. I had mixed experience in three out of the four flights:

This is due to a couple of reasons.

1. We're expecting intelligent behavior from flight attendants and crew chiefs. I mean really :)

2. Over the years I've seen the behavior of these doofus idiots and learnt to ignore their idiocy. Part of the reason I don't fly TG and MH anymore. SQ is a little better.

3. I've seen my Singapore business colleagues be rude to all manners of flight attendants, cocktail waitresses, ticket vendors, you name it. Just the culture I guess.

4. The prevalent culture in the US or the West places a lot more emphasis on the value/respect of an individual IMHO. Just because a country has a per capita income approaching that of the US does not mean that they have achieved the equivalent courtesy level. Many countries in our part of the world fall into this category (and I'm not pointing out any single country). It takes a couple of generations to get refinement and courtesy down to a habit.

5. The MH staff assigned to Dhaka may have been the worst of MH -- who knows?

6. The DAC-KL flight is full of 'rude' Bangladeshi laborers in the first place. They put their dirty feet up on the seats, repeatedly harangue crew and staff for beer, keep pushing the 'attendant call' button repeatedly and then smile like an idiot when the attendant comes. I've seen this behavior with my own eyes.

So what is the solution??

1. Sensitivity training on the part of MH staff, acculturizing them with Bengali laborer behavior.

2. Keeping Bengali staff on board, maybe even cops.

I flew DAC-KUL-DAC twice in the month of July. I had mixed experience in three out of the four flights...May be airlines like MH who earn a good chunk of money by ferrying Bangladeshis in and out of Dhaka ought to be a little more polite?

It's not just MH. I've seen other ops (EK, SV) often treating the BD pax in the same manner on legs into and out of DAC.

I don't know how many would agree with me here, but I feel that one of the major reasons why this happens is because we the Bangladeshis often let foreigners walk over us without any reason! In most cases, if you stand up against such behavior instantly, you'll see the offender going on his/her backfoot simply because it'd be an exceptional event among his/her experience with thousands of BD pax. The reason why most of these labourers can't do it is because they lack they courage and the knowledge needed to stand up against the abuse, and it is these people who forms the majority of the travelling pax into and out of DAC.

But if one crazy guy would manage to stand up aloud on any given flight, the whole remaining bunch would join in within seconds...and the cabin crews would be on their knees in no time at all!

As Bob sang...'Get up, stand up...stand up for your rights'! :)

It will look better if Biman is in new colours. Recently i have sent some of the aircraft designs to the Biman Headoffice. I hope they may like it.

Here is one of the design. I am sorry for the picture quality.
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9171/bimanbanuthev.jpg

I love this, I hope they take it up, you should charge them!

BTW: I know it's asking for alot, but can you come up with a new design for 4H, I just like to see what your imaginative mind can do.

This library looks good. Simplicity is better. It's cool.

Any update of 747 for Hajj or this years financial condition of Biman. Last year Biman earn 190 million taka.

Any update !!!

"UNITED BANGLADESH AIRWAYS" would be too long to write in the fuselage of the aircrafts, therefore I disagree, but I think when a name is changed, u can change the callsign aswell!

Disagree!

remember, United British Airways, how did they managed it?

I am sure, the design team can come up with something.

^^ I have a design/livery idea for 4H and BG (BG shall beat Banuthev's one btw ;) ) and I shall try and complete and post it ASAP (my net is disconnected so it may take sum time) :)

May be airlines like MH who earn a good chunk of money by ferrying Bangladeshis in and out of Dhaka ought to be a little more polite?

The recent experience with MH was really horrible even for corporate passengers traveling by business class. I myself had quite an awkward experience...even though the organization I work for was one of MH's top corporate client and I myself being a frequent flier with MH. When the formal complaint was launched, their explanation was far from convincing... they said because of severe price competition the service of DAC-KUL is below per for a while and MH is working hard to resolve it etc etc. Finally, after experiencing similar problems, we had to severe tie with MH and instead use SQ for DAC-KUL business travel.

As for the workers/wage earners, well, we only have our self to blame for. Have you seen how they are treated in Zia International by immigration police or customs? On in BG... our national flag carrier? Unfortunately, our government and political leaders have much more priorities than addressing their problems...

I think it was due to the fact that most people at the end of the thread were talking about imagine airline in Bangladesh, the fleet the routes, I most would rather talk about the airlines in Bangladesh not fictional ones

Can't agree more...

I am sure, the design team can come up with something.

You mean to say they have a design team at the first place? I thought they ran a kindergarten contest to get the one they have now! :)

^^
Isn't it about time that this fantasy game should stop? There is a separate thread for it, after all.

Biman Bangladesh Airlines is going to resume Dhaka-New York flights by the year end with newly leased Boeing 777 aircraft after almost three years, a senior Biman official said.

"We are re-opening the route by November this year," CEO and MD of Biman Muhammed Zakiul Islam told the FE.

He said flights on the route was suspended due to its high operation costs but the inclusion of new generation Boeing 777 aircraft that Biman is on the process of hiring is expected to make the operation profitable this time.

"We took the decision in response to the longstanding demand of Bangladeshi expatriates in America as they fancy flying home in Biman," Mr Islam said adding that the extraordinary long route will have a break at any European destination.

The national flag carrier cancelled its flight on this particular route at the end of 2006 amid operating loss to the tune of Tk 7.5 million (Tk 75 lakh) per flight even with full load of 274 passengers. Biman operated two weekly flights to New York by DC 10-30 aircraft.

However, experts in the marketing and planning departments of Biman sounded not so optimistic about making a profit in this route this time around.

"The passenger rush on Dhaka-New York route has always been satisfactory, but fare is simply too low to make any profit," said an official from the marketing department of Biman requesting anonymity.

Another top official of the planning department said, "The operation cost is too high to leave any room for profit on this route particularly with an aircraft acquired under wet lease."

He said Biman took the decision on pressure ignoring its commercial non-viability. The government made a political commitment to Bangladeshi expatriates in America, so Biman had to bow down to the pressure.

"The authority (Biman) had its own plan to re-open this route but not immediately after taking lease of Boeing 777 aircraft," he said adding that they are preparing a route-plan via Europe to mitigate possible operating loss.

"We are considering a journey break at Manchester where we can attract some New York-bound passengers," he added.

Over 200,000 Bangladeshis live in the USA and more are seeking residence there.

http://www.thefinancialexpress-bd.com/2009/08/14/76080.html

It will look better if Biman is in new colours. Recently i have sent some of the aircraft designs to the Biman Headoffice. I hope they may like it.

Here is one of the design. I am sorry for the picture quality.
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/391/bimanbanuthev.png

Thanks, better if we mix contemporary design with our tradition. Esp for the National Airline like BG, we would better stick with tradition. I will do the design for 4H and i will post in the "United Airways (4H) Future plans (aka Fantasy Game)" thread.

Did you make your feelings known to MH in writing and did you have your complaints/grievances published in newspapers in DAC and KUL?

Sorry .. I am not going to waste my precious time on trying to rectify the behaviour of a foreigner. I WILL however take time and opportunity to praise Bangladeshis whenever it is deserved. The article I wrote about MH on New Age praises their Bangladeshi staff .. http://www.newagebd.com/2009/jul/30/fb.html

I have met with some Malaysian elite who clearly acknowledge their weakness: Malaysia is very good for making hardware but when it comes to operations, they lack behind.

My time will be far better spent by buying a ticket on another carrier the next time round:)

they said because of severe price competition the service of DAC-KUL is below per for a while and MH is working hard to resolve it etc etc.

Yep .. sounds like BS .. stinks of satay .. yukh!!!

This is due to a couple of reasons.

1. We're expecting intelligent behavior from flight attendants and crew chiefs. I mean really :)

2. Over the years I've seen the behavior of these doofus idiots and learnt to ignore their idiocy. Part of the reason I don't fly TG and MH anymore. SQ is a little better.

3. I've seen my Singapore business colleagues be rude to all manners of flight attendants, cocktail waitresses, ticket vendors, you name it. Just the culture I guess.

4. The prevalent culture in the US or the West places a lot more emphasis on the value/respect of an individual IMHO. Just because a country has a per capita income approaching that of the US does not mean that they have achieved the equivalent courtesy level. Many countries in our part of the world fall into this category (and I'm not pointing out any single country). It takes a couple of generations to get refinement and courtesy down to a habit.

5. The MH staff assigned to Dhaka may have been the worst of MH -- who knows?

6. The DAC-KL flight is full of 'rude' Bangladeshi laborers in the first place. They put their dirty feet up on the seats, repeatedly harangue crew and staff for beer, keep pushing the 'attendant call' button repeatedly and then smile like an idiot when the attendant comes. I've seen this behavior with my own eyes.

So what is the solution??

1. Sensitivity training on the part of MH staff, acculturizing them with Bengali laborer behavior.

2. Keeping Bengali staff on board, maybe even cops.


Points 1-3:
No we are not expecting anything more or less than stewardship while on board an aircraft. That involves being courteous and helpful .. it is really that simple. Doesn't require rocket science to learn those .. just a touch of good manners as one grows up through childhood. Many of these airline tea ladies and gents are in it for some kind of ego boost for their otherwise empty, dull and moronic lives and deserve to be treated as village idiots no matter what profession they choose. There is no substitute to common sense and good manners combined with a touch of humility - all good hall marks of any service professionals. No barmaid, waitress or hotel concierge will ever dare behave as bad as some of these cabin crews behave. Many are just spoilt brats pretending to be jet-setters when in fact they are nothing more than the servants of the jet-setters.

In my experience TG and SQ have been superb (SFO-SIN, SIN-DAC, SIN-BKK, BKK-DAC) on routes. Hell even UA came close once .. (SFO-HKK).

Point 4:
With the greatest respect, it sounds like you have not traveled on a US airline lately. I am on a flight about 2 to 3 times a month .. having to interact with ANY airline official is one of my anxieties; I dread the experience and you will often find me sitting on a plane pretending to be asleep just so I don't have to acknowledge their presence. The standards of US carriers has dropped so low that Congress is considering passing legislation to make them at least treat passengers like humans again. Read http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/6566466.html

Point 5:
Perhaps.

Point 6:
In my years of travel including RUH-DAC, RUH-KHI, JED-DAC, DXB-DAC etc., I would have to disagree with you. Passengers regardless of their color, income, attire, gender are just that - fare paying customers. The blame lies with the overgrown tea ladies who have chosen the wrong profession - they need to sharpen up their people skills because their salary comes from the pockets of everyone that ride the planes.

Just curious to know .. how many flights do you do annually?

It's not just MH. I've seen other ops (EK, SV) often treating the BD pax in the same manner on legs into and out of DAC.

I don't know how many would agree with me here, but I feel that one of the major reasons why this happens is because we the Bangladeshis often let foreigners walk over us without any reason! In most cases, if you stand up against such behavior instantly, you'll see the offender going on his/her backfoot simply because it'd be an exceptional event among his/her experience with thousands of BD pax. The reason why most of these labourers can't do it is because they lack they courage and the knowledge needed to stand up against the abuse, and it is these people who forms the majority of the travelling pax into and out of DAC.

But if one crazy guy would manage to stand up aloud on any given flight, the whole remaining bunch would join in within seconds...and the cabin crews would be on their knees in no time at all!

As Bob sang...'Get up, stand up...stand up for your rights'! :)

Amen Imran! I'll drink to that quote from the rastamaan!

However, I have to share a good experience I had with EK (DXB-DAC). Having just flown into DXB from LHR, I connected with this flight. I had flown ATL-LHR the day before. Naturally I was very tired .. in the middle of taking pictures of sunrise, eat the meals, do my duty free shopping on board AND read a book I had bought for my father, I somehow managed to lose the book by the time we landed in DAC.

I was the last one off the plane even though I was in row 15 (in front of the port wing) because I was searching for the book under every seat - along with one of the flight attendants (FA). Eventually, EK ground staff firmly told me to get off and I resigned all hopes of ever recovering the rare book. The FA took down my e-mail and promised let the DAC-DXB crew know of my loss in case it shows up; I had explained that there would be no point in reporting the loss to EK ground staff given the nature of people in Bangladesh.

While I was waiting to get my passport stamped at the arrival hall, the FA saw me .. came over .. and gave me the book. Not sure where she found it but this I will remember as an exception in today's cut-throat air-travel industry. Guess there are always one or two decent people in the industry with the right attitude.

SV - is a piece of junk .. no matter which route you fly them .. I used to fly them on RUH-FCO, RUH-LHR, RUH-DAC ..

Imran, this particular crazy guy did stand up to the MH crew - when the FA interrupted my phone call as the aircraft was taxiing to the gate - the words I used were, "PISS OFF". As I got off the plane (KUL-DAC), the told the crew that they were one of the worst I had seen in Asia. Finally I told the immigration officer how badly the crew were treating the Bangladeshis ..

I think we Bangladeshi travelers ought put together some kind of a charter and force the airlines to treat their customers with some respect.

......
I think we Bangladeshi travelers ought put together some kind of a charter and force the airlines to treat their customers with some respect.

That would depend on building the necessary awareness among the (air) traveling public in/from Bangladesh. To that end, the local media could be a catalyst.

Over 200,000 Bangladeshis live in the USA and more are seeking residence there.



Let's do some simple math:

- Add the estimated total number of Bangladeshis Canada, bringing the total for North America (NA) up-to say 250,000.

- Let's assume about 90% of these folks travel to Bangladesh at least once every two years, and out of that 75% live east of the Texas-Ontario diagonal and are therefore likely to fly on the JFK-DAC route regardless of the carrier or their personal preference/patriotism. This brings the total number of such customers to 168,750.

- Let's assume everyone in this group travels to Bangladesh at least once every two year; this implies (168,750/(2x365)) = 231 will go between NA->Bangladesh (BD) and the same number will go back per day.

- cost of average return ticket from the East Coast of the USA (JFK/EWR/IAD etc., on Etihad, Emirates, Kuwait Airways) to DAC is $1,150.00 (BD Tk 80,500) (equivalent to $575 one way or BD Tk 40,250)

- gross earning per one way flight = 231 x $575 = $132,825 (BD Tk 93 Lakh)

Biman claims they made a loss of BD Tk 75 Lakh ($107,142) per JFK-DAC flight using a full load of 274 customers (gross revenue would be $157,550 or BD Tk 1.1 Crore).

That is only possible if the total running cost (crew, fuel, any leasing costs, landing and parking costs at JFK and DAC, agency cost, ground staff cost etc.,) of this flight for Biman using their DC 10-30 is $132,825 + $107,142 or
$239,967 (BD Tk 1.67 Crore). Thus the cost per seat was $875.00 instead of the $575 needed to break even.

Biman's leased 747 costs $5,300 per block hour (includes Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance, Insurance, Fuel and Ground handling). A quick search on the topic of wet leasing on www.airliners.net suggest that one can wet lease a 767 or 777 for anywhere between $10,000 to $14,000 per hour.

An arctic flight from JFK to DAC is about 7000 nautical miles. A Boeing 777-300 ER has a range anywhere between 5,200 to 9,300 with 300 to 360 passengers. Thus such a plane is more than adequate for a non-stop JFK-DAC flight. Assuming an average speed of 550 miles/hr this aircraft would take about 12.7 hours for the JFK-DAC flight. With a wet lease cost of say $12,000 per hour, it would cost $152,727 per flight. Let's say the configuration and fill factor are such that there are 330 economy class passengers. Therefore the cost per seat is $462.80.

If Biman charges same as what the current players are charging, they would make a profit of ($575.00-$462.80) = $112.00 per seat or $37,022 (BD Tk 26 Lakh) per one way flight.

If I was the traveler, hell, I'll pay $575 for a non-stop flight that lasts only 13 or 14 hours compared to nearly 24 hours in addition to the mis-treatment by the camel jockeys of the middle carriers (transit in Kuwait City, Abu Dhabi or Dubai) .. I'll even pay a little bit extra!

So there is a pure business case aside from all the patriotism BS for someone to start a JFK-DAC non-stop service.

With all the stoppage times (boarding, de-boarding, refueling) if we add two hours of ground time per JFK-DAC flight, then the aircraft can do one such leg in 13+2 = 15 hours OR upto a maximum of 5 return flights.

Given the market is such that only 231 people travel everyday or 1,617 per week, 4.9 flights with 330 paying passengers would claim 100% of the market. In business terms that would require aggressive marketing and unrealistic customer loyalty.

BUT say even if only 3 flights a week are operated (330 x 3)/1,617 to capture 60% share, I think the goals for Biman would not be too high maintaining a profit margin of (112/463) = 24%.

The odds for Biman are even better if they drop the profit margin lower and go after only 50% of the existing market share ...

Does this make sense to anyone else or am I making too many sweeping and unrealistic assumptions?

^^ Is fuel included in the wet lease?

MH is a 5-star airline as per Skytrax. Maybe are are better in other routes

^^ Is fuel included in the wet lease?

No

ACMI is Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance and Insurance

Does this make sense to anyone else or am I making too many sweeping and unrealistic assumptions?

Too many sweeping and unrealistic assumptions mate, its not as easy as 1 2 3!

Trust me...

Too many sweeping and unrealistic assumptions mate, its not as easy as 1 2 3!

Trust me...

So he missed the fuel cost in his calculations, which is probably the biggie.

Some people might find these interesting including TF-AMK ex GMG Airlines taken early last week while on one of my flights

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk45/written_ficton/P8040242.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk45/written_ficton/P8040241.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk45/written_ficton/P8040243.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk45/written_ficton/P8040240.jpg

Interesting news, I guess we had a discussion on it few days ago.....

http://www.allbdads.com/samakal/details.php?news=13&action=main&option=single&news_id=13783&pub_no=71

What equipment should be best suitable for this? What abt a BAe 146?

I think this arrangement should have done long before.

Could anyone give information on the present scenario of GMG? could they finally able to overcome the loss incurred by this jumbo from Air Atlanta Icelandic?

Interesting news, I guess we had a discussion on it few days ago.....

http://www.allbdads.com/samakal/details.php?news=13&action=main&option=single&news_id=13783&pub_no=71

What equipment should be best suitable for this? What abt a BAe 146?

I think this arrangement should have done long before.

Whatever equipment should be suitable, as I mentioned few days earlier, the decision is going toward Boeing....

By the way, as usual, the article is full of wrong info...

Let's do some simple math:

....

Does this make sense to anyone else or am I making too many sweeping and unrealistic assumptions?

Even though the calculation is not perfect, but the feasibility of DAC-JFK flight was never really in question for BG. Keeping aside the technical stuff (I'll leave it for Iasif and skystar320...:)), there are two area where BG was and is still lacking. The first is proper management and second is the product that BG offers. These days, air travel is much more than the aircraft and timing. As in the MH case, many people will prefer a flight via Singapore or Bangkok to travel from Dhaka to KL though it involve longer hours. Any flights above 7 hours requires some extra service that includes, but not limited to, in-flight entertainments, quality meals, seat comfort, efficient crews, route selection (in case of non-direct flight) and off course and easy booking/ticketing process (which was a big problem for BG). To make DAC-JFK successful, BG needs much more than B777s. But still, I fully agree with you that this route should never be loss making if BG maintains minimum sanity.

Agree with the comments actually

Ive been using SQ, MH and TG very regularly

In terms of products ("hardwares" ) I'd rate this way:
SQ 10/10
MH 7/10
TG 5/10

When it comes to cabin service/friendliness and general handling ( "softwares" ) here's how I rate

TG 9/10
SQ 9/10 ( tie )
MH 5/10

Even though the calculation is not perfect, but the feasibility of DAC-JFK flight was never really in question for BG. Keeping aside the technical stuff (I'll leave it for Iasif and skystar320...:)), there are two area where BG was and is still lacking. The first is proper management and second is the product that BG offers. These days, air travel is much more than the aircraft and timing. As in the MH case, many people will prefer a flight via Singapore or Bangkok to travel from Dhaka to KL though it involve longer hours. Any flights above 7 hours requires some extra service that includes, but not limited to, in-flight entertainments, quality meals, seat comfort, efficient crews, route selection (in case of non-direct flight) and off course and easy booking/ticketing process (which was a big problem for BG). To make DAC-JFK successful, BG needs much more than B777s. But still, I fully agree with you that this route should never be loss making if BG maintains minimum sanity.

First things first, they should look closer to home routes... Its far more easy to make money closer to home than it is further and further abroad.

First things first, they should look closer to home routes... Its far more easy to make money closer to home than it is further and further abroad.


Here in US there are whole squad of Bangladeshi traveling all the year & struggling for tickets. I hope BG will start their service to US with proper aircraft and good planning. I am not an expert but I believe if they can fly through UK operating 3/4 flights a week, they will get ample passengers. People are willing to pay 200/300 USD more if BG can ensue the service. God knows better when the monopoly of Middle Eastern carrier will break in this route.:ohno:

Some people might find these interesting including TF-AMK ex GMG Airlines taken early last week while on one of my flights

Did you take from a Air Asia aircraft? Given my recent sketchy experience with MH, I am looking for customer feedback on Air Asia ... on the DAC-KUL route .. but I hear they will start a LHR-KUL service soon ..

So he missed the fuel cost in his calculations, which is probably the biggie.

Yes, I did not take the fuel cost into account. So here's my re-calculation:

Boeing 777-300ER
Fuel Capacity: 47,890 US Gallons
Range: 7,880 Nautical Miles
3 Class PAX Capacity: 365
Gallons/Passenger Mile: .01665

Distance between New York and Dhaka = 6,853 nautical miles
Number of gallons of fuel needed to fly 330 passengers on the DAC-JFK leg: 6,853 x 330 x 0.01665 = 37,653
Average jet fuel cost per gallon over last several years: $1.00 (hit a peak of $4 in Q1 of ‘08 but now sharply declining)

Fuel cost for the journey: 37,653 x $1.00 = $37,653
Cost of time = 12.7 hours x $12,000/hour = $152,400.00
Total = $190,053
Fuel as percentage of total cost < 20%

Using this figure, the operator cost per seat becomes: $190,053/330 = $575!
Same as other operators but with the journey time cut by 40% (or 10 hours on a o/w flight and 20 hours or a whole working day by flying the non-stop flight)
Each passenger would be saving the following amount of money:
Per capita income in USA: $40,000 or $110.00 per calendar day

So Biman can easily tag on that $110.00 on a return JFK-DAC-JFK ticket price (or $55 on a o/w ticket) and still make a ($55/$575) = 10% profit (ACMI + fuel).

If we change the seat configuration to say 400 (two class capacity; Biman’s new 777-300 ER’s will have about 460 odd seats!), and recalculate:

Fuel cost: 400 x 6,853nm x 0.01665 = $45,641
ACMI Cost per hour: $12,000
Time for the flight at 550nmph = 12.5 hours
Total cost of o/w flight: (12.5hr x $12,000/hr) + $45,641 = $195,161
Cost per seat to operator: 195,161/400 = $487.90

If they charge $575, Biman’s profit will be $87.00 or 18%
If they charge $575 + $55 (passenger saves that money by not having to take time off from work), i.e. $630, Biman’s profit will be ($630.00 - $488)/$488 = 29%

There you have it folks …

There is NO REASON in hell why Biman should not operate a non-stop JFK-DAC flight ...

Thanks for chiming in.

(Even if we take the current fuel cost of $1.47/gallon where the per seat cost rises to $541 instead of $487, Biman will make a profit of between 6% {charging $575 per seat} and 16.5%)

That would depend on building the necessary awareness among the (air) traveling public in/from Bangladesh. To that end, the local media could be a catalyst.

I should get writing .. any other trouble makers want to join me ..the only caveat is that you have to be an established trouble maker though ...

Too many sweeping and unrealistic assumptions mate, its not as easy as 1 2 3!

Trust me...

Oh please .. that is so old school and passe .. you sound like one of those Bangladesh Government civil servants who always want express their opinion with a veto without ever thinking how patronizing they sound ..

Since I have taken the trouble to do a bit of math, you could at least debate by pointing out exactly where my assumptions are wrong and why ..

I think the idea of these boards is to stimulate intellectual discussions and do thought experiments with potential real world consequences. That is what I am trying to do .. i.e. answer why someone should or should not start a non-stop flight between two points with a market size of 250,000 potential customers ...

Here in US there are whole squad of Bangladeshi traveling all the year & struggling for tickets. I hope BG will start their service to US with proper aircraft and good planning. I am not an expert but I believe if they can fly through UK operating 3/4 flights a week, they will get ample passengers. People are willing to pay 200/300 USD more if BG can ensue the service. God knows better when the monopoly of Middle Eastern carrier will break in this route.:ohno:

Hear hear!

Flying through a stop-over in the UK is a really bad idea. Here are my reasons:
JFK-LHR (or Manchester) - 8 hours of flying time
LHR-DAC (or Manchester-DAC) - 8 hours of flying time
Add stoppage time for extra landing, takeoff, boarding, de-boarding, luggage loading and unloading - 1 to 2 hours

Total time from JFK to DAC now becomes 18 hours instead of 12.5 hours.
Total distance between JFK and DAC now becomes almost 8,000 instead of 6,853
Cost per seat now becomes:
{(8000 x 0.01665 x 400) + (16x$12,000)}/400 = $613
instead of $487 (like I calculated in an earlier post based on ACMI of a 777-300ER + fuel cost).

Then there is the hassle of UK immigration for Bangladeshi passport holders .. who want to transit through even if they don't get out of the aircraft. For US passport holders this is not a problem but for the carrier, this will add extra headache in case, god forbid, one of the passengers decides to seek asylum! I can just see UK Border Control posting themselves at ZIA and JFK ... making monkeys out of themselves and holding up the flights ..

Plus, I as a passenger would rather get home in 12.5 hours than in 18 hours. Sitting in a plane for 12 hours is no pleasure .. I will be less tired after a shorter flight than a longer one and therefor be more productive when I get to my destination ...

Additionally, the carrier will have to charge a figure higher than their cost ($613) to have any profit. As the passenger, the cost benefit between paying $1,150 and getting home in 24 hours (existing Middle Eastern airlines - let's call them camels) and paying an additional $200 and getting home in 18 hours. I will pay $1,260 (based on the US per capita income) for a 12.5 hour flight without a second thought ..

Think about it, which product would be easier for you to market (AND justify the business plan to the board) - all else being equal?

So stopping en-route is a BIG no no!

there are two area where BG was and is still lacking. The first is proper management and second is the product that BG offers. These days, air travel is much more than the aircraft and timing.... Any flights above 7 hours requires some extra service that includes, but not limited to, in-flight entertainments, quality meals, seat comfort, efficient crews, route selection (in case of non-direct flight) and off course and easy booking/ticketing process (which was a big problem for BG). To make DAC-JFK successful, BG needs much more than B777s.

Very good points. People in the USA are always in a hurry. Time saving and cost saving is our biggest attraction. This is because we are a prevalently middle class society where the earning gap between the rich and the poor is no where near as stark as in say Bangladesh (one of the definitions of a developing nation). I would say about 50% of the 260 million strong population of the United States can afford to fly .. that's 130 million customers .. and regularly do. Compare this to 5% or 8 million Bangladeshis who fly .. 90% of whom are unskilled workers going between Dhaka and the camel jockey capitals (DXB, RUH etc). People fly for convenience more than for pleasure in the USA. Inflight entertainment is by no stretch of imagination a deal breaker for us.

In Bangladesh, flying seems to be a major bragging right in certain middle-class circles. Here's it's really no big deal.

If someone can get me from north America to Dhaka in less than 13 hours, hell I will not complain about the food or the lack of state of the art Inflight Entertainment System (IES) .. I will more than happily take a sleeping pill and sleep through the experience.

ON TIME DEPARTURES and ARRIVALS are CRUCIAL.

BUT ... here's what would be nice:
a. short flying time (no stop-overs)
b. low cost (same as $1,150 +/- 10%) for JFK-DAC rtn flight
c. reasonable seats, blankets and pillows
d. one warm meal + one breakfast/snack meal
e. courteous in-flight staff

Now points "a" through to "c" as well as "e". come as part of the ACMI lease that an operator like Biman should be able to negotiate. As for "d", they should be able to negotiate that with a JFK/DAC air-caterer. Jackson Heights/Astoria in New York have a whole streets full of Bangladeshi food which serve mouth watering food ... For me, having Bangladeshi food on board would be a MAJOR attraction ...

Mmmmmmmmmmm ... shorshey ilish, mach' bhorta ... daal ... nan-rooti ... porotha ... firni .. lassi shemai .. mango lassi ... ok I'm getting dreamy eyed :)

As for online booking, e-ticket etc., it should be sub-contracted out to companies which are dime a dozen. EK offers on-line check-in in DAC and BG should follow suit. It makes a big difference for a frequent traveler like me.

As for IES, I'm sure these 777s come with multi-channel movie players, tv, cock-pit voice broadcasts, game players, phones etc., for individual seats.

Recently I flew the A380 (EK 001 and EK 002, LHR-DXB and back). What I liked best was the fact that I could charge my cellphone and my laptop. It also has a USB port so I can play my iPod/iPhone via the seat headphones/seat back LCDs. Being a nerd, I also enjoyed having SMS chats and sending/receiving e-mails with someone 40,000 feet below me ... The food was good .. the drinks were free .. the stewardesses were approachable and had a good healthy happy attitude ..

Not asking for all that on Biman .. just a short flight ... please please pretty please ...

Think of the business potentials too ... if I want to fly a business professional out to Dhaka (whose hourly cost is likely to be $300), airline route would I rather fly him/her? Plus ... it would be a LOT easier for me to convince someone to take a 12.5 hour flight than a 24 hour journey with stoppages in Camel capitals ... People fly non-stop between Chicago, EWR, SFO, LAX, SEA and HKK, SIN, ICN, KUL, BKK, Taipei ALL the time from the USA .. having a direct non-stop flight between the USA would be the equivalent to having the optical fibre connection for Bangladesh and the rest of the world ... Believe it or not, New York is a major financial hub of the world .. it has strategic importance to anyone who wants financing and investment ...

Hear hear!

Flying through a stop-over in the UK is a really bad idea...

So stopping en-route is a BIG no no!

Notwithstanding what Biman would prefer to do, a non-stop flight between Bangladesh and the US will not be possible, in all realities, particularly because of (i) the regulatory restrictions, (ii) aircraft limitations, and (iii) market conditions. Here's to explain:

(i) Bangladesh has been a Category 2 state under the IASA Program of the FAA since 1997, which prohibits non-stop flights to the US. Furthermore, Bangladesh has recently been listed as one of the 11 states with 'Significant Safety Concern' by the ICAO. There's no real possibility that the CAAB will improve enough in the foreseeable future to deserve a direct access into the US.

(ii) Hypothetically assuming that the prohibitive regulatory restrictions didn't exist, it'd still be practically non-feasible to operate the 777-300ER on the DAC-JFK-DAC route because of the payload limitations that'd be applicable. Assuming 85% winds/temps conditions, the 777-300ER will make the DAC-JFK leg of approx. 8,401 nm of still air distance carrying a maximum of 260 pax (subject to favourable climb and enroute wind conditions) and zero revenue cargo. In doing so, it'll burn approx 145 tons of fuel (including alternate to BOS), and take 17+ hours to complete. On the other hand, on JFK-DAC leg, it'd be able to carry 298 pax+zero rev cargo, burning another 145 tons of fuel (including alternate to CCU) and needing just over 16 hours. At these loads, it'd be uneconomic for BG to operate to/from JFK non-stop.

(iii) BG doesn't have half the product it needs to make enough pax consider flying over 16/17 hours non-stop with them. SQ couldn't do well enough with their relatively excellent Preimum Economy product on their SIN-LAX/EWR routes and eventually had to go all-business to compensate for the inadequate load factors and yields.

Considering the above, I think a one-stop operation through MAN is probably the best option that BG might want to try out if they are to serve JFK.

Just my 2 cents! :2cents:

Recently I flew the A380 (EK 001 and EK 002, LHR-DXB and back). What I liked best was the fact that I could charge my cellphone and my laptop. It also has a USB port so I can play my iPod/iPhone via the seat headphones/seat back LCDs. Being a nerd, I also enjoyed having SMS chats and sending/receiving e-mails with someone 40,000 feet below me ... The food was good .. the drinks were free .. the stewardesses were approachable and had a good healthy happy attitude ..


Welcome to the Skyscraper forums. It's good to see your analysis regarding the viability of a direct JFK-DAC flight. I would pay $150-$250 extra to fly on Biman if the schedule can be maintained. Everything else(food, IFS, etc.) is an after thought.

Something irks me though regarding some of your comments:
...mis-treatment by the camel jockeys of the middle carriers (transit in Kuwait City, Abu Dhabi or Dubai)

....90% of whom are unskilled workers going between Dhaka and the camel jockey capitals (DXB, RUH etc).

...(existing Middle Eastern airlines - let's call them camels)

I mean are these disparaging remarks really necessary? You do mention that you had a good time in an EK flight and I believe all BD camel jockeys have been sent home from the UAE and have been paid compensation. They are using monkeys or robots instead.

I lived in Kuwait long enough to know very well how our people are treated, but if you have flown the Gulf-DAC sector, I'm sure you have seen how those 90% unskilled fellow Deshis behave. I know these laborers are the underlying reason why our foreign exchange reserves are increasing by leaps and bounds, but unfortunately nobody has taught them how to behave as airline passengers. I sympathize with their ordeal but the onus is on our govt. or manpower agencies to teach them some basics of flying and how to obey law and order. Last time I flew on EK, as soon as the aircraft was on approach over Uttara, I heard someone yell..Choli aisi, choli aisi..and everyone just stood up to grab their overhead luggage. How do you deal with passengers like that?

Last time I flew on EK, as soon as the aircraft was on approach over Uttara, I heard someone yell..Choli aisi, choli aisi..and everyone just stood up to grab their overhead luggage. How do you deal with passengers like that?

Ha Ha this is like deja vu Maruf :lol::lol:-- these laborer brothers have spring-loaded feet which activate at the same time the spoilers do on touchdown. I've been a witness at DAC to this many times.

First things first, they should look closer to home routes... Its far more easy to make money closer to home than it is further and further abroad.

And what well of wisdom is this supposition based on? EK operates to some 240 destinations. SQ operates to atleast half as many. You can fit the Emirate of Dubai or the State of Singapore several thousand times over in the area their respective airlines cover.

In this day and age, physical distance has less consequence than prudent management and policy decisions.

Don't forget Bangladesh's biggest asset: it's population - a significant number of whom are engaged in productive employment all around the globe and collectively represent a sizable chunk of the international air travelers.

If there was even a shred of truth to what you claim, Qatar Airways, Etihad, Emirates and Kuwait Airways would not bother ferrying hundreds of Bangladeshi expats from North America and Western Europe. Similarly Jet Airways, Singapore Airlines, Thai Airways as well as Malaysian Airlines carry an equal number of Bangladeshi expats from the Pacific West Coast as well as Australasia everyday.

With bad management, trust me Biman cannot even operate a profitable route between Dhaka and Kolkata ... trade between Bangladesh and India is significant and therefore has business folks flying back and forth between the two countries.

You are trying to hide behind illogical statements to cover for incompetence.

Since I have taken the trouble to do a bit of math, you could at least debate by pointing out exactly where my assumptions are wrong and why ..

I think the idea of these boards is to stimulate intellectual discussions and do thought experiments with potential real world consequences. That is what I am trying to do .. i.e. answer why someone should or should not start a non-stop flight between two points with a market size of 250,000 potential customers ...

I really like your way of analyzing the profitability of DAC-JFK-DAC route. Regarding the price of the tix, did you consider tax? Afaik, tax adds a lot to the base fare, and the $575 fare you are mentioning should incorporate tax.

On a different note, Air Asia X (seperate entity from Air asia-but uses their branding) is flying nonstop between STN-KUL.. maybe thats what you heard about AK's LHR-KUL.

Welcome to the Skyscraper forums. It's good to see your analysis regarding the viability of a direct JFK-DAC flight. I would pay $150-$250 extra to fly on Biman if the schedule can be maintained. Everything else(food, IFS, etc.) is an after thought.

Something irks me though regarding some of your comments:
...mis-treatment by the camel jockeys of the middle carriers (transit in Kuwait City, Abu Dhabi or Dubai)

....90% of whom are unskilled workers going between Dhaka and the camel jockey capitals (DXB, RUH etc).

...(existing Middle Eastern airlines - let's call them camels)

I mean are these disparaging remarks really necessary? You do mention that you had a good time in an EK flight and I believe all BD camel jockeys have been sent home from the UAE and have been paid compensation. They are using monkeys or robots instead.

I lived in Kuwait long enough to know very well how our people are treated, but if you have flown the Gulf-DAC sector, I'm sure you have seen how those 90% unskilled fellow Deshis behave. I know these laborers are the underlying reason why our foreign exchange reserves are increasing by leaps and bounds, but unfortunately nobody has taught them how to behave as airline passengers. I sympathize with their ordeal but the onus is on our govt. or manpower agencies to teach them some basics of flying and how to obey law and order. Last time I flew on EK, as soon as the aircraft was on approach over Uttara, I heard someone yell..Choli aisi, choli aisi..and everyone just stood up to grab their overhead luggage. How do you deal with passengers like that?

Thanks for the warm welcome but I have lurked here before. Yes disparaging remarks are absolutely necessary. Not sure how much time you have had the good fortune to spend in the Middle East but I actually spent a good 15+ years there. I spent about 10+ years in Europe and now about the same amount of time in North America. In neither Europe nor North America would anyone ever dare to discriminate against someone because of the color of their skin. All these camel jockey states rank pretty high up in the list of ILO's labor law violation lists. Bangladeshis in these countries sometimes die of mal-treatment, malnutrition, heat etc., Frankly, in this day and age there is no excuse for that kind of behaviour. In case you weren't watching, the Bangladesh Ambassador designate, Dr. Momen, was not given accreditation by Saudi Arabia because he in his past life as a high ranking ILO officer had exposed the Saudis for what brutes and hypocrites they are. I am sorry, I totally refuse to show any kind of dignity when it comes to these camel jockeys.

It is high time that Bangladeshis started getting treated like humans. And you know who is responsible for that? It's people who are too afraid to call a spade a spade and are too concerned about niceties at all times because they are afraid to look bad. When it comes to animals, they only understand animal language. If someone treats me bad for no reason, trust me I will stand up for my rights.

LHR-DXB-DAC, 90min transit:
Biman:"hey I would like to buy a SIM card"
Emirati guy:"Sorry we don't sell those ... we need to see your passport, then you have to wait for 48 hours to get permission"
Fast forward 3 days later -
Biman - "Was it hard for you to buy a SIM card in Dubai"
Janet - "No .. I just went through passport control .. and bought it"

Difference between Janet and Biman: Janet (not her real name) is white, Biman is not. Both in fact play team sports together in north american tournaments ...

DAC-DXB-LHR, 7 hour transit, Dubai Airport hotel, cost of room $200/-
Concierge - "Sir if you like, you can wait in the lounge there"
While Biman waits in this expensive hotel lounge, he nearly gets thrown out on sight by a junior member of staff ...
Manager - "Sir, if you like you can go stay at a city hotel since with your passport you don't need a visa"
Biman - "No it's fine, it's only slightly more expensive to stay here and I have an early flight to catch .. and I don't want to risk being mistreated again .. but thank you all the same"

Notice how the attitude suddenly changes the minute I pull out my passport ... and agree to pay $200 for sleeping in peace for 6 hours in a comfortable bed ... with a nice hot shower etc., It's as if I was some kind of a criminal only a few minutes before that. What would it have cost anyone to try to be a bit more polite? An arm and a leg? I think they would have earned a lot of goodwill instead ...

My bro had a similar experience in Abu Dhabi weeks earlier .. where they refused to sell him postal stamps. Isn't this the height of racist pettiness? So, excuse me .. I will call them what I see fit.

Is this really necessary on THEIR part to treat people like that? No one would ever dare do that to me here in the US or anywhere in Europe and hope to get away with it. If a cop pulls you over and calls you a ****** here in the US, I think your attorneys would be laughing all the way to the bank and the media would have a field day.

One of the Dubai hotel workers (Philippino) later said this to me:
"Sir I am not happy here; I had to pay a lot of money to come here and I have to work 12 hours a day and can only charge for 10 hours .. we get vacations once every two years, we don't get any overtime .. we are like slaves here .. that's why everyone is always in a bad mood .."

Compare this to LHR, Changi or KL:
Biman - "Hi, can you tell me where I can buy a SIM card?"
Other person - "Sure, you go right there, pay xxx and away you go"

You know I don't have a major problem with crying babies, people getting excited (sometimes passengers will clap right after landing from a turbulent flight) or groups of teenagers will break into song upon getting to their destination ... they are all people and are allowed to express their feelings in public. If it bothers you that much, just remember they paid the exact same amount of money to ride the planes as you did ... their money is just as good as yours. I don't have any major problems sharing confined spaces with total strangers (such as on a plane) for short periods of time .. if you do, you can always get a private jet.

What I do have problem with is discriminatory attitude of any kind .. whether it's about gender, race or social class. If someone violates those basic human rights, then they are the ones in the wrong and deserve every bit of contempt they get.

The next time someone shouts, "Choli aisi, choli aisi.." consider for one second what it might mean to them .. they have probably been in a similar predicament to the Dubai hotel staff I quoted earlier ... If I had been in their shoes, hell yeah .. I too would scream in joy ... What harm did they cause by expressing those few seconds of joy if I may ask ...

I really like your way of analyzing the profitability of DAC-JFK-DAC route. Regarding the price of the tix, did you consider tax? Afaik, tax adds a lot to the base fare, and the $575 fare you are mentioning should incorporate tax.

On a different note, Air Asia X (seperate entity from Air asia-but uses their branding) is flying nonstop between STN-KUL.. maybe thats what you heard about AK's LHR-KUL.

Good point - No I did not include tax explicitly. When I pay $1,150 to go between JFK and DAC, tax is included in that price. So it should come out almost the same in the wash.

Yes I meant STN-KUL ... As a former Londoner, LGW, LHR and STN are all about the same amount of hassle to get to give or take some .. so I just used LHR when I really should have said London.

Notwithstanding what Biman would prefer to do, a non-stop flight between Bangladesh and the US will not be possible, in all realities, particularly because of (i) the regulatory restrictions, (ii) aircraft limitations, and (iii) market conditions. Here's to explain:

(i) Bangladesh has been a Category 2 state under the IASA Program of the FAA since 1997, which prohibits non-stop flights to the US. Furthermore, Bangladesh has recently been listed as one of the 11 states with 'Significant Safety Concern' by the ICAO. There's no real possibility that the CAAB will improve enough in the foreseeable future to deserve a direct access into the US.

(ii) Hypothetically assuming that the prohibitive regulatory restrictions didn't exist, it'd still be practically non-feasible to operate the 777-300ER on the DAC-JFK-DAC route because of the payload limitations that'd be applicable. Assuming 85% winds/temps conditions, the 777-300ER will make the DAC-JFK leg of approx. 8,401 nm of still air distance carrying a maximum of 260 pax (subject to favourable climb and enroute wind conditions) and zero revenue cargo. In doing so, it'll burn approx 145 tons of fuel (including alternate to BOS), and take 17+ hours to complete. On the other hand, on JFK-DAC leg, it'd be able to carry 298 pax+zero rev cargo, burning another 145 tons of fuel (including alternate to CCU) and needing just over 16 hours. At these loads, it'd be uneconomic for BG to operate to/from JFK non-stop.

(iii) BG doesn't have half the product it needs to make enough pax consider flying over 16/17 hours non-stop with them. SQ couldn't do well enough with their relatively excellent Preimum Economy product on their SIN-LAX/EWR routes and eventually had to go all-business to compensate for the inadequate load factors and yields.

Considering the above, I think a one-stop operation through MAN is probably the best option that BG might want to try out if they are to serve JFK.

Just my 2 cents! :2cents:

Point (i): This is a policy issue which can be changed by political pressure on politicians in the USA and Bangladesh by the beneficiaries (travelers on this route). Depending on how you look at it, pressure is applied slightly differently in Bangladesh to how it is applied in the USA. Either way, this is not an impossible barrier to surmount if there are no compelling technical reasons to continue the status quo. How about you tell us what exactly it will take to make ZIA an acceptable airport to be the origin for a flight heading to the USA .. I think that truly will be very constructive and motivate us to do something meaningful about it rather than be resigned.

Point (ii): I will debate this from a different angle as I am no where near as savvy on the technical side as you appear to be. Allow me to invite you all to this wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-stop_flight).

It shows that:

a. Cathay Pacific operate 777-300ER from New York to Hong Kong in 16:00 hours (7014nm) ... $946 return fare.
b. Continental operate 777-200ER from Newark to Hong Kong in 15:50 (7009nm) .. $788 return fare
c. Virgin Australia will operate 777-300ER Los Angeles to Melbourne in 15:45 (6883nm) (Return in 14:25)
d. Cathay Pacific operates 777-300ER from Toronto to Hong Kong in 15:20 (6787nm) .. $1500 return fare
e. Air Canada operates 777-200ER from Vancouver BC to Sydney in 15:25 (6741nm) .. $1300 return fare
f. American Airlines operates 777-200ER from Delhi to Chicago in 15:25 (6503nm) .. $1550 return ..
g. Jet Airways operates 777 Delhi to Chicago non-stop

This clearly shows that several airlines are operating non-stop 777 service on similar distances with travel times in the range of 15 hours and 45 mins. My calculation of 12 hours and 30 mins was too simplistic ... but your assumption that it has to be 16/17 does not seem reasonable based on the data I have found and presented. The DAC-JFK distance is 6,853nm.

Also, the fares seen here are not that far from $1,150 we pay now to what Biman could charge for a non-stop flight (say $1,300) and still make a lot of profit.

If all your technical data was rock solid, then all these airlines would not operate these routes using a 777 and still make a profit. Feel free to explain why Jet Airways, Cathay Pacific, Air Canada, American Airlines and Continental offer these ultra-long routes at the prices that they do and what is stopping Biman from doing the same given the same aircraft ... what kind of superstitious magic are these airlines doing that Biman cannot do?

Point (iii): You are over-estimating what JFK-DAC passengers would settle for if there was a non-stop flight. NO ONE EXPECTS Biman to turn into a SQ like product overnight. The same journey on SQ would take me another 8 hours ... I am sure if you were a regular traveler on the USA-Bangladesh route, you would think differently and having gadgets on the plane or the lack thereof would not be a deal maker or breaker.

Biman's 777-300ER will have 463pax.Will it can fly non-stop??

Beacuse 463pax + there baggages upto 40 Kg.

You are trying to hide behind illogical statements to cover for incompetence.

Excuse me? You have been on the forum for a couple of days and you think you know it all? Word of warning, treat other people how you expect to be treated.

Saying that through past experiance operating an aircraft non - stop with an ill equiped airline will prove fatal. I daresay that both Isaif and myself are on the money, the problem that lies is that Category 2 means they cant fly non stop!!!!! and weight restrictions on the route means it will not be economical for Biman to operate the route.

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr178/sulz132/777-range.jpg

http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr178/sulz132/777-range2.jpg

These were posted by Asif in part 3...........They should explain everything.

On a side note...Biman, please don't put people down like that. Especially to fellow Bengalis.

How can we expect respect from foreigners if we don't respect our own?

ZYL can handle the 777-300ER only under certain limited conditions, not in general. Here the explanation:

- Until ZYL has a refuelling facility, ZYL-LHR won't be possible, so let's look at LHR-ZYL instead.

- Considering full structural payload of 65.7 tons, 85% winds, and annual enroute wind/temps, the 777-300ER will burn roughly 80 tons of fuel on the LHR-ZYL leg and the landing weight therefore will be approximately 250 tons.

- At 250 tons, the 777-300ER would have an ACN of 46 for flexible subgrade C pavements, whereas the runway at ZYL has the lower PCN of 40. This means that under these conditions, the 777-300ER will be stressful for the runway. In order to match the PCN of 40 with an ACN of 40, the 777-300ER would have to have a landing weight of about 207 tons, meaning a loss of structural payload of almost 23 tons - equivalent to 35% of structural payload.

- Strangely as one would expect, the taxiways and the apron area of ZYL has an even lower PCN of just 20!


Asif bhai
you have got wrong informarmation with ZYL airport...
read with attention this article http://www.bangladeshmonitor.net/aviation_story.php?recordID=1803, the ZYL airport PCN was raised from 40 to 70( 2008/12 por bangladesher shob portikate news ber hoechilo je sylhet airport runway er khomota PCN 40 theke 70 unnoti kora hoy).... if you have problem with your eyes please wash, use glass and then write... Maledetto rincoglionito stai molto attento lla prossima volta che commenti su un argomento che nn sai niente... ok

if you have problem with your eyes please wash, use glass and then write

Guys let me stick this right here right now, Moderators should agree to this and everyone else.

However meaningful, we are here out of love of Aviation to share thoughts, ideas and suggestions out Bangladesh Aviation.

What we shouldnt do is abuse anyone who you disagree with. Fair enough we get things wrong occassionaly but it doesnt mean that we should verbally abuse anyone on the forum. Treat those, how you wish to be treated

I come here for the love of Aviation, the smell of Jet A1 fuel at 5am in the morning and the shear joy of commerical aviation which flows through the veins every ticking moment of the day.

Hope that everyone agrees

Cheers

Asif bhai
you have got wrong informarmation with ZYL airport...
read with attention this article http://www.bangladeshmonitor.net/aviation_story.php?recordID=1803, the ZYL airport PCN was raised from 40 to 70( 2008/12 por bangladesher shob portikate news ber hoechilo je sylhet airport runway er khomota PCN 40 theke 70 unnoti kora hoy).... if you have problem with your eyes please wash, use glass and then write... Maledetto rincoglionito stai molto attento lla prossima volta che commenti su un argomento che nn sai niente... ok

Asif will probably answer your question. But do not rely on those Bangladeshi reporters who occasionally describe B 737 or A 320 as wide body aircraft!! Also be careful about your word. It is a public forum and everyone should be treated with respect.

[QUOTE=Biman;41305758]Point (i): This is a policy issue which can be changed by political pressure on politicians in the USA and Bangladesh by the beneficiaries (travelers on this route).

Point (ii): Also, the fares seen here are not that far from $1,150 we pay now to what Biman could charge for a non-stop flight (say $1,300) and still make a lot of profit.

Really!! I guess you live in US and you know how system works here. You are thinking a safety/regulatory issue can be solved by political pressure?? How many times Bangladesh even ask to open quota free garment access to US and what is the final result?

Which airlines are charging $ 1,150 for a round trip?? Please let me know as my parents are planning to make a trip next month.

Also please do your math with 465 pax for 777-300ER and explain how could BG make non stop flight with full payload.

^^ I second that with skystar.

"molto attento prossima volta che commenti su un argomento che nn sai niente" translates to - very careful next time you comment on a topic that you know nothing in ....

This is really rude and disrespectful. How can you say something like that? Its good to see newcomers joining this thread and sharing their views & opinions but please do that with respect!