You would think that the stigma of getting your education at the mall would be enough of a deterrent... Horrible idea.

I have to give the mall credit for bringing "normies" downtown, but personally I couldn't care less about malls, think that they have ruined a lot of the culture of America in general, and I wouldn't care if light house mission put a homeless shelter on the fourth floor (better there than where they are now).

As for the nature of for-profit universities: they are a huge scam. I feel sorry for the people with a dream or inspiration to do more with their lives that these "universities" prey on. It makes me sick to think that people just getting by are spending money (financed at high interest rates by the for profit universities) on an education that is meaningless to most of the real world. It's sad. My law school debt is comparable to for-profit 4year debt when you consider the difference in interest rate on the financing plans. And the job prospect for the for-profit university grads are grim in comparison to what I have. I think there needs to be better disclosure of the cost benefit relationship of the for-profit education and potential earning power of the graduates.

Trade schools are another animal, but I am more ok with a 1 year trade program than I am with a 2-4 year sham education...

I have my daughter at I.U. for business right now. She is very serious about being there and not even an extension of I.U. for the importance of her business degree. The online thing is not for her. For write or wrong, I do know the college loans are alot of money. She wants to be at I.U. however.

I have my daughter at I.U. for business right now. She is very serious about being there and not even an extension of I.U. for the importance of her business degree. The online thing is not for her. For write or wrong, I do know the college loans are alot of money. She wants to be at I.U. however.

I too went to IU Kelley School of Business for my undergraduate degree, and I agree that even state colleges are expensive. My beef with for-profit universities comes from how they are financed and the prospective up side gains for the individual's income after graduation.

For-profits are very expensive for what the relatively small gain in earning power. While IU was expensive, at least I was able to secure a $50k+ job "fresh" out of college. I do not think that there are many for-profit graduates with similar opportunities.

The for-profits make a lot of money through federal loan programs, thus shifting the risk of nonpayment onto the taxpayer. They privately finance any other expenses that the students do not qualify for federally, usually at very high interest rates.

For these institutions to provide six months to a year of trade school at a reasonable, or even slightly high, tuition makes sense. The skill sets taught are usually informed by demand for those kinds of skills, and placement in an actual position is usually easy to facilitate. The cost benefit here seems to be more rational.

Good luck to your daughter! IUKSB is a great school and does pay off in the long run.

http://www.ibj.com/iu-health-cancels-73m-project-acquires-gateway-plaza/PARAMS/article/26164

I knew the IU health related rebirth of the near north side was too good to be true.

Warehouses being torn down at the corner of Washington and Parker - just east of Rural. Glad to see at least a few of these go. All they did was attract crime and prostitution and create an unsafe place for homeless people to squat.

http://www.ibj.com/iu-health-cancels-73m-project-acquires-gateway-plaza/PARAMS/article/26164

I knew the IU health related rebirth of the near north side was too good to be true.
Excuse me, but fucking shit that sucks. Not only does that eliminate a gigantic hole-filling project but it also affects long-term plans for the Neuroscience Center. The Methodist Family Practice Center on the SW corner of 16th and Senate was scheduled to be moved into the ground floor of the parking garage in the administration complex, and a future phase of the Neuroscience Center was to go were the Family Practice was.

IU Health already has some administrative facilities in the Gateway Plaza. My wife had to do some training there at one point.

There are also construction trailers where the warehouses are being torn down on east Washington. I wonder if that means some sort of development is going on there.

The steel framing for the new apartment complex at the NE corner of Indiana Ave and 10th street is going up. It definitely changes the look of that area - with the structure right up against the street.

Also -- I noticed last night that the new Indiana Landmarks Center at 12th and Central has the top windows - just below the big domed peak of the building - lit up with blue lights. It definitely makes it much more noticable when you're driving by on the interstate at nighttime. The lights are prettty bright.

One other thing .... Way to go again Butler Bulldogs! Great win again tonight over the University of Florida - to put them into the Final Four next weekend!!

Thanks Eddie. She wants to work in Chicago, after graduation. Who knows, maybe Indy. She does love to shop and go to Circle Center. Chain type of person. Not like me.

Excuse me, but fucking shit that sucks. Not only does that eliminate a gigantic hole-filling project but it also affects long-term plans for the Neuroscience Center. The Methodist Family Practice Center on the SW corner of 16th and Senate was scheduled to be moved into the ground floor of the parking garage in the administration complex, and a future phase of the Neuroscience Center was to go were the Family Practice was.


The future phase of the Neuroscience Center was to be an IU research building. It seems doubtful to me that IU will get the money from the General Assembly anytime soon.

I agree that this cancellation leaves a big hole. However, it also opens an opportunity. I can't think of any other pre-assembled, undeveloped 5+ acre tracts in the Regional Center (besides the GM plant, that is).

Given its location (adjacent to the People Mover), perhaps it would be a good site for a development that incorporates residential units geared toward grad students, medical residents, and other staff of IUPUI, IUH, Wishard, and Ivy Tech.

Is this the same plat that was going to be taken up by a 6 story parking garage?

I am beginning to get confused about what is what in that area except that I know there is a big hole in the ground for the Neuroscience center.

Well I guess the good news is that the Hong Kong Chinese Restaurant isn't going anywhere! lol. That place is good for a hole in the wall. And cheap.

I know this is off topic, but I have been thinking about a transit plan. I'm an idiot when it comes to this but I believe I have a better plan than indyconnect and other so-called professionals. Here goes.

Streetcar - made to circulate through an area (ideally downtown), NOT go long distances across town. The ideal route for a streetcar IMO is as follows. Lets start on South st (where my ideal transit hub would be) This could be the main stop that incorporates Lucas Oil on one side and the wholesale district on the other. On south, heading west, turn north onto missouri with the next stop on west street just north of washington. this stop would serve WRSP, JW, and the government center. Continue north on west to michigan. This stop would primarily serve IUPUI. Further north the line could turn onto eastbound 10th street with a stop that would serve the canal, central library, and american legion mall area. Turning north onto illinois st, the next stop could be just south of 16th to serve methodist and the apartment buildings on that side of the old northside. Heading east on 16th, the next stop could be on, or near southbound central, going south from there, the line would take east to its mass ave area stop, then southward to an Market st/CCB stop. Then the line would keep heading south on east to a stop near south for Fletcher/N of S/Lilly, then head westward on south st to reconnect with the hub. That is just my streetcar plan.

I think that route makes good sense. One thing I would suggest as a tweek though would be that you could have the route leaving the transit hub at South and Illinois and head north on Illinois to Washington St. Then turn west and head to the corner of Washington and West Streets and then continue your proposed route. This way, you would have a closer connection to the heart of the CBD. I don't think your'e missing much of anything described in your plan either. With a stop at the transit hub - you will be a block from Lucas Oil Stadium and a block from the Southeast corner of the Convention Center. You don't really gain much by running over to the corner of Missouri and South and then heading north. When you go west on Washington St to West Street - you would hit the JWMarriott complex and WRSP as well. Overall - I think it sounds like a good plan.

Your plan is good, but it is a circulator. Indyconnect is a regional transit plan. I live close enough to downtown that a circulator is all that I need. But the people who can't live near the center of the city and need to get to work/doctor/government centers need to be a central consideration. To me the potential upside on the lives of people who rely on public transit outweighs my desire to easily get lunch in a different section of downtown.

Honestly though I want it all. I want to be able to sell my car and increase my quality of life at the same time. Circulators, regional connectors, zipcars, and bike trails!

Is this the same plat that was going to be taken up by a 6 story parking garage?

I am beginning to get confused about what is what in that area except that I know there is a big hole in the ground for the Neuroscience center.

The multi-level parking garage was to be between 14th & 15th with office/retail on the ground floor facing Capitol. Between 15th & 16th was to be the multi-story office building.

If another prospective tenant wanted that space, I bet the developer would build it for them. Too bad Rolls Royce already signed up for the Faris Campus.

Well I guess the good news is that the Hong Kong Chinese Restaurant isn't going anywhere! lol. That place is good for a hole in the wall. And cheap.

It was never part of the development proposal.

I agree with Eddie. The circulator idea is great, but it doesnt really prevent too many trips into the downtown area. As much as I love rail transit and advocate for it, there needs to be something that reduces the need for automobile trips downtown for commuters. Buses, light rail and commuter rail all do this.

Figuring out the compromise between all those modes is the hardest variable to solve for.

Your plan is good, but it is a circulator. Indyconnect is a regional transit plan. I live close enough to downtown that a circulator is all that I need. But the people who can't live near the center of the city and need to get to work/doctor/government centers need to be a central consideration. To me the potential upside on the lives of people who rely on public transit outweighs my desire to easily get lunch in a different section of downtown.

Honestly though I want it all. I want to be able to sell my car and increase my quality of life at the same time. Circulators, regional connectors, zipcars, and bike trails!

True -- The primary goal should be to reduce the number of automobile trips from the suburbs into downtown, but a circulator is probably necessary for that goal to realized. The car is still a convenient non-stop trip from home to work (that's one reason it dominates in INDY), and to boost ridership on transit for those traveling to destinations away from transit stops, two counter-directional circulator routes would be wise.

Make sure they cover Eli Lilly, convention center, the CBD, Mass Ave, IUPUI, the hospitals, 10th and Meridian, and any significant employment center not mentioned. I think many would be satisfied with a walk of 3 blocks or less from the circulator.

My hope is to move more residents near the CBD, and increase the number of people walking, biking, or taking a "circulator" to work.

I think that route makes good sense. One thing I would suggest as a tweek though would be that you could have the route leaving the transit hub at South and Illinois and head north on Illinois to Washington St. Then turn west and head to the corner of Washington and West Streets and then continue your proposed route. This way, you would have a closer connection to the heart of the CBD. I don't think your'e missing much of anything described in your plan either. With a stop at the transit hub - you will be a block from Lucas Oil Stadium and a block from the Southeast corner of the Convention Center. You don't really gain much by running over to the corner of Missouri and South and then heading north. When you go west on Washington St to West Street - you would hit the JWMarriott complex and WRSP as well. Overall - I think it sounds like a good plan.

The main reason I chose East st southbound and Missouri st northbound was because of bridge clearance. These two streets have newer rail bridges with taller clearances while illinois has the older bridge with the lower clearance.

Glad to see Mark Twain, Susan B Anthony, Albert Einstein, and Booker T Washington werent stolen from the peace walk. There are signs that say the pictures on the sails are being repaired. I wonder if it was ice damage?

Am I the only person that thinks the new parking meter extended hours will hurt retail and dining downtown? The new hours are mon-fri 7am-9pm and sat 7am-8pm. This is one of the main reasons I cannot stand Greg Ballard even though I tend to be more conservative. This was definitely not a pro small business move.

Wexford - fully bricked
National apartments - one is bricked, one is fully framed and ready for brick
St Clair apts - 3rd story framing
Canal Gardens II - fully framed
Studios at the Waverley - 2nd story framing
The Avenue - Steel framing on 1st floor done
16 Park - 1st building fully framed, starting foundation on 2nd building
Indy Telecom - Fully framed and conrete paneling up, adding windows
NCAA- sleek windows going up
Wishard - looks like they are on the 2nd or 3rd level of decking- the
footprint is HUGE

I cannot believe the presence that Indy telecom has on the south end of downtown. It adds to the skyline from both I70 and from the Washington Street Bridge over by WRSP.

From the Urban Times:

The Fountain Square building which was most recently the home of Deano's Vino and before that Santorini Greek Kitchen will be remodeled and enlarged to house a restaurant, bar and music hall, following action at the March 2 hearing of the Indianapolis Historic Preservation Commission.
The 2 story structure at 1110 Shelby st will be doubled in size with a 4212 sq ft theater addition on the south side. The historic building, which dates to 1900, sits on the southwest corner of the intersection with Virginia ave and Prospect st. It is owned by Bryce Caldwell.
The restoration of the current structure includes replacement of non-historic windows, replacement of non-historic entry doors, tuckpointing, and installation of canvas awnings.One original wood storefront will be restored, while the 2 non-historic wood storefronts will be replaced to match the original storefront being restored.
The new 2 story commercial structure will be made of brick and standing-seam metal siding. The front elevation will feature a balcony on the second level as well as a marquee-style canopy.
IHPC also approved a variance to allow for 36 off-street parking spaces from the current 145.

The Julian center was given approval to redesign the existing parking lot and construct a garage addition at 2011 N. Meridian st.

A petition by the Whitsett Group to construct a new 4 story apartment building at 1010 Central Ave was continued to the April 6th hearing, without debate and at the applicant's request. the petition includes demolition of a loading dock on the existing commercial building and site improvements.

Urban Living Center is under contruction at the Harrison Center near the corner of 16th and Deleware - a "resource intended to promote the benefits of urban living in Indianapolis."

The new Indiana Landmarks Center also has an open house on Sun April 17th, from 11am to 2pm and is free to the public.

^^ Thanks for all of the good information. By the end of the year, hopefully Fountain Square will have three live music places: Radio Radio, Revolucion, and the place you detailed above - which I have heard may be called the Pioneer. I like the layout that will provide with four major anchors - in four different quadrants of the square. Revolucion is kind of across the street from Radio Radio, Pioneer is right on the square - and the Murphy Arts Center - which is its own hub - is the fourth point of the almost rectangular polygon. With them all within a block and a half of each other - it should add some great pedestrian density when they've all got shows going on.

One other Fountain Square / Fletcher Place note: There is a new little resturant that just opened - very near to the Mexican "Tortas" place on Virginia. I believe it is called "South of Chicago" - and is selling Italian Beef sandwiches and maybe Chicago style hot dogs. They have a nice new green awning that adds some color to that stretch. Haven't tried it yet -- but visually it looks like a cool little addition to the neighborhood.

^^ don't forget about the White Rabbit as another live music venue. Great little NON-SMOKING live entertainment venue and lounge!

The guys doing the new restaurant and live venue (where Dino's was) are great. They have quite a vision for what they want to happen there. I am excited to see what they end up with!

Good to hear about the new "South of Chicago" place. Felipe, the owner of "Tortas" is originally from Chicago. He left the family restaurant business in Chicago to work in Indianapolis but after a few years he decided he wanted to open a restaurant here. He is a great guy! I hope that the Cultural Trail construction doesn't hurt either of these new businesses too much.

I LOVE the White Rabbit!!! The Burlesque shows are terrific!

Im hoping that with the cultural trail and these few developments popping up along the corridor, that the downtown "feel" will hop across the interstate into fountain square like it has just north of downtown on the Old North Side. Fountain Square needs to densify and add more residents. I always thought fountain square would be the perfect place for a ten story apartment tower with beautiful downtown views. Nothing like Villagio, something classy, contemporary, and sleek.

Fountain Square needs to densify and add more residents.

Did you know that the main Fountain Square census tracts are already among the most densely populated in Indianapolis? The tract north of Prospect had 7717 people per square mile in 2000; the tract south had 6753.

I think what would be more appropriate for the Virginia Avenue corridor - from South Street down to Fountain Square - is for the places that currently have parking lots, used car lots and the lot where the ugly, abandoned BMV office is located - to be turned into 3 to 5 story apartment and condo buildings - with some first floor businesses, restaurants, a bar or two and a little retail. Wouldn't want to immediately push for too much commercial all along Virginia - enough to stay interesting - but the bulk of new commercial and restaurants / bars should be focused closer to the Square.

The residential buildings could also continue for at least three or four blocks on appropriate lots south of the Square - along Shelby Street - and possibly in a few places East of the Square along Prospect. Hopefully the land isn't too expensive yet -- and some decent housing could go in over the next decade that would add 700 - 800 not-too-expensive new units - with a little over 1,200 - 1,300 new residents. I suppose another ten story building or two might be able to work in the right place -- but moreso, I'd rather see a continued growth in a steady level of density of Indy's near downtown neighborhoods filling up with these walkable, street-friendly types of (lower) mid-rise developments.

Maybe some year (or decade) -- if everything is filling up pretty well between downtown and the Square - we might be able to get INDOT to help build a "commercial" bridge over the Interstate - like they did in Columbus, OH on High Street. That would be excellent to be able to add two blocks of new businesses along a new bridge - to close the big gap that currently exists between Fletcher Place and Fountain Square.

Maybe some year (or decade) -- if everything is filling up pretty well between downtown and the Square - we might be able to get INDOT to help build a "commercial" bridge over the Interstate - like they did in Columbus, OH on High Street. That would be excellent to be able to add two blocks of new businesses along a new bridge - to close the big gap that currently exists between Fletcher Place and Fountain Square.

Love this idea!

It wouldn't be as difficult thru the split being as most of the freeway is below grade. I too think this is an awesome idea.

Indianapolis population dispersion 1940-2000 in 10 year snap shots.

Flicker: By Eric Fischer via social explorer

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4113/5183354996_711c25e6de_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4113/5183354996_40d66ec196_o.png

Some shots I took of the Georgia St project yesterday

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5016/5573996846_9eb1fa5de8.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5179/5573403541_0b074ee829.jpg

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2011/03/30/nonprofit-group-plans-renovation-of-2-vacant-apartment-buildings/PARAMS/post/26233

This is great - there shouldnt be any major apartment buildings in midtown sitting vacant.

About Fountain Square: I think the biggest obstacle this neighborhood has to overcome in order to grow is historical preservation NIMBYism. There are a certain amount of people who think every structure in Fountain Square should be preserved because they think "old" is the same thing as "historically significant." A number of other neighborhoods near downtown have this same problem.

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2011/03/30/nonprofit-group-plans-renovation-of-2-vacant-apartment-buildings/PARAMS/post/26233

This is great - there shouldnt be any major apartment buildings in midtown sitting vacant.

I'm not sure that concentrating more and more low-income housing and social services in the Meridian Street corridor is good for the overall vitality of the corridor. It would be nice to see some investments for market-rate housing between Fall Creek and 38th Street.

About Fountain Square: I think the biggest obstacle this neighborhood has to overcome in order to grow is historical preservation NIMBYism. There are a certain amount of people who think every structure in Fountain Square should be preserved because they think "old" is the same thing as "historically significant." A number of other neighborhoods near downtown have this same problem.

Are there really any good projects that have been thwarted due to the inability to demolish a non-significant building? Are there other examples other than the fact that some people would rather keep houses on their block instead of a fenced storage yard for mulch etc?

All that growth in the outlying areas would be a good sign for Marion County, if only we hadn't lost all the dark brown areas in Center Township. No wonder there are so few vibrant urban neighborhoods where one can walk to shopping and services.

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2011/03/30/nonprofit-group-plans-renovation-of-2-vacant-apartment-buildings/PARAMS/post/26233

This is great - there shouldnt be any major apartment buildings in midtown sitting vacant.

I'm not sure that concentrating more and more low-income housing and social services in the Meridian Street corridor is good for the overall vitality of the corridor. It would be nice to see some investments for market-rate housing between Fall Creek and 38th Street.

Social services are different from housing. Clients are largely dependent on public transportation and/or easy-to-find locations, and Meridian (or Washington St.) fits the bill on both counts.

I agree about the apartments in that stretch of Meridian. I think there are for-profit developers who are willing to buy and renovate Meridian Corridor properties. Note that the apartment buildings on Meridian from Fall Creek south to I-65 are owned by Van Rooy, Stallard, Zender and Axia Urban; the Sheldrake is undergoing a gut rehab.

It's probably not a good idea to segregate people by income (and concentrate low-income people) excessively. To the extent that housing cost does that, it can be mitigated by some low-mod subsidy in a mixed-income development. But you can't do the opposite (subsidize mid-upper income people to move into an area dominated by this kind of low-mod income project).

Where this gets mixed together is that developers like Herman & Kittle put together deals that use a social-service not-for-profit as the nominal "owner" of the project so that the deal can get tax credits. It is politically impossible to oppose a social-service agency (see 34th & Meridian, where H&K used The Julian Center as the project owner).

About Fountain Square: I think the biggest obstacle this neighborhood has to overcome in order to grow is historical preservation NIMBYism. There are a certain amount of people who think every structure in Fountain Square should be preserved because they think "old" is the same thing as "historically significant." A number of other neighborhoods near downtown have this same problem.

Fountain Square has obstacles, NIMBYs wanting to prevent development is not one of them. The neighborhood association has unanimously supported Fountain Square Brewery, despite neighbor concerns; and unanimously supported Pioneer's plans for Deano's. despite concerns that were raised. Can you name an example of something that was stopped by NIMBYs in Fountain Square other than the Keep Indianapolis Beautiful fiasco?

^^ I agree. I don't think concern about preserving historic properties is a critical issue that is slowing down development in Fletcher Place / Fountain Square. When I think of development there -- I primarily think of the potential higher density, mixed-use projects that could go in along Virginia Avenue. It seems fairly clear where the opportunities are along that corridor for putting in new, infill development. It is where there are existing parking lots and ugly, non-historic structures (ie abandoned BMV building, trailer style buildings on used cars lots, etc.) that are the obvious places that should be turned into great, up-to-the-street, walkable, mixed use, 3 - 5 story developments - that will fit with the historic style of the neighborhood. There are definitely some historic structures along the corridor too -- and those should not be removed for future development. I don't know if a comment like that is considered "Nimbyism". People should be opposed to development plans that will take away the existing historic structure of the neighborhood commercial corridor. There is plenty of room though - due to previous demolitions - where there is room for new development. The planned new apartment complex at Virgina and McCarthy is an excellent example of an appropriate infill project - that will be built on a space that currently has an ugly, one-story structure that does not fit with the traditional streetfront, urban, commercial style of the rest of the corridor. Getting more of these types of buildings to go in - along Virginia, Shelby and Prospect - is what is needed.

^^

Fountain Square is one of the best examples of an aged urban commercial district outside of the CBD in Indy. Unfortunately there is a major lack of quality apartment housing in the area - and I think a largely unmatched demand for quality, reasonable priced apartments.

Some of the existing homes are charming, but there are plenty of homes in rough condition that were cheaply built decades ago and have little historic value. An aggressive plan to replace all this housing with low rise (3-4 story) apartment buildings would do much to help Center Townships lagging population.

The old city cannot compete with the suburbs by merely fixing up single family houses or filling in with the same (i.e. Fall Creek Place.) Low rise aparments near commerical and cultural districts like Fountain Square, Irvington, and Broad Ripple are the future.

Jeff G: "An aggressive plan to replace all this housing with low rise (3-4 story) apartment buildings would do much to help Center Townships lagging population."

(did you actually say ALL this housing??)

And who do you think should be responsible for coordinating this effort to go around buying people's homes, tearing them down, and building these new apartment buildings? I don't think that would go over real well if the city tried to coordinate an effort like that.

Like I said above --- there are plenty of undeveloped lots along Virginia and Shelby that have plenty of room for six or seven or possibly eight or more dense - three to four story mixed use apartment / condo complexes. If each of them could hold an average of 70 units - there could be over 550 new residential units -- with 900 or so new residents. I think focusing on developing along the historic primary commercial / mixed use corridor first makes the most sense. Maybe after that happens, then a few decent infill projects could occur in the surrounding neighborhood. At the same time similar efforts should be occurring in other near downtown neighborhoods along the primary commercial corridors.

Clearing out the historic homes in the Fountain Square neighborhood makes no more sense than it would have made to try to clear out Lockerbie Square's homes and replace them with four story apartment buildings back in the 1970s. Ideally - it would be cool to see really dense neighborhoods throughout central Indianapolis - like Lakeview in Chicago or Center City in Philadelphia - but that is not going to happen in Indy right now. We're not big enough population wise -- and we don't have the history of the high density near the downtown core that helps maintain and build on that type of density. We should continue to pursue good, fairly high density infill projects along our primary commercial corridors and also where there are future plans for high level transit service corridors.

I like the idea of significantly increasing residential density throughout the downtown and near downtown areas -- I just think tearing down all existing single family homes in Fountain Square and replacing them with apartments is a little too extreme and is not an appropriate strategy to focus on in the near future in the Fountain Square area.

^^

Yes that came off too extreme and does not reflect my thoughts. My intention is really to say "some" of this housing. I don't forsee leveling the blocks around Fountain Square and starting from scratch. I really like the neighborhood. Rather focus on segments that have sat in disrepair for decades or where only scarce housing remains. For all its charm, there are plenty of opportunities.

When dealing with changing the dynamics of an old neighborhood great care must be taken to respect the longterm residents and the character. However the aging neighborhoods need ambitious plans, that includes replacing much of the aging, poorly built housing stock.

... I just think tearing down all existing single family homes in Fountain Square and replacing them with apartments is a little too extreme and is not an appropriate strategy to focus on in the near future in the Fountain Square area.

Yes that came off too extreme and does not reflect my thoughts. My intention is really to say "some" of this housing. ... Rather focus on segments that have sat in disrepair for decades or where only scarce housing remains. For all its charm, there are plenty of opportunities. ... However the aging neighborhoods need ambitious plans, that includes replacing much of the aging, poorly built housing stock.

Effn Square and Flecher Palce are City Historic Districts and so tearing down the contributing homes, whatever one's opinion about quality of original construction, isn't happening. There are not "plenty of opportunities" to tear down contributing structures or replacing "the aging, poorly built housing stock." That was decided against when the Historic Districts were established.

Can anybody provide specific examples of historic preservation ultimately nixing ANY project downtown? Off the top of my head, I can only think of two where neighborhood input at the IHPC level even had an influence on the height and/or density of a design: The Beilouny (757 Mass) and 500 Walnut (ultimately not built). I can't think of any projects that were killed by preservation.

Effn Square and Flecher Palce are City Historic Districts and so tearing down the contributing homes, whatever one's opinion about quality of original construction, isn't happening. There are not "plenty of opportunities" to tear down contributing structures or replacing "the aging, poorly built housing stock." That was decided against when the Historic Districts were established.

Sorry jjgn -- You are wrong. Fountain Square is only a historical district within 2 blocks of the fountain, and along Virginia. Most of the streets and blocks that surround it are not under historical preservation. This is where the economy would benefit from low-rise apartment construction to replace as others suggested the underused and empty lots, and I suggest, poorly built homes in disrepair. Now, whether it would be possible buy enough real estate at fair market value for this type of redevelopment is another question. It would definitely take a lot of political capital by the city and the private developers would face some local opposition. Still, in the end, this or a similar measure is the best thing for a CITY that is losing core population.

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/IHPC/Documents/Maps/fountainsquaremap.jpg

Can anybody provide specific examples of historic preservation ultimately nixing ANY project downtown? Off the top of my head, I can only think of two where neighborhood input at the IHPC level even had an influence on the height and/or density of a design: The Beilouny (757 Mass) and 500 Walnut (ultimately not built). I can't think of any projects that were killed by preservation.

I would assume that builders design with the IHPC in mind. It might not be that any building gets nixed, but just that builders know they are going to be restricted to IHPC's will.

A builder who would have built a 10 story building instead proposed a 7 story building and ultimately had it reduced to 4.

I like the idea of the IHPC, but I think that it should have a better eye to the future. Too much brakes and not enough gas. There shouldn't be a height restriction on a street like Mass Ave, and if there is it should be 25 stories or something ridiculous.

I would assume that builders design with the IHPC in mind. It might not be that any building gets nixed, but just that builders know they are going to be restricted to IHPC's will.

A builder who would have built a 10 story building instead proposed a 7 story building and ultimately had it reduced to 4.

I like the idea of the IHPC, but I think that it should have a better eye to the future. Too much brakes and not enough gas. There shouldn't be a height restriction on a street like Mass Ave, and if there is it should be 25 stories or something ridiculous.
I think you're correct that projects have to be designed with IHPC in mind. I just think that, in practice, almost nothing is being constrained by historical preservation.

Look at Kosene & Kosene projects like The Hudson, The Clevelander, The Packard. Those are in unprotected areas and yet they still top out at 3 to 4 stories. It can be argued that historical preservation gives neighborhoods inordinate power to constrain density, but the open market doesn't appear to be busting at the seems to build higher density downtown either.

There shouldn't be a height restriction on a street like Mass Ave, and if there is it should be 25 stories or something ridiculous.

Imagine a plane the width of the Mass Ave corridor, running northeast on Mass Ave from the top of the INB/Regions tower to a mast at the corner of Mass Ave and Bellefontaine, where the mast is the same height as the 707 building at College & North.

Any building that fits underneath that plane would be okay height-wise, as long as it has parking in/under. :)

Same rule should apply northwestward on Indiana to 16th, using the OneAmerica and the student housing at Montcalm as the height references.

Likewise Virginia southeast to Fountain Square, using the Flagstar Bank at Washington & Penn and Fountain Square Theater as endpoints.

There's no point in doing this exercise for the Kentucky Ave. corridor, since it's gone from the Mile Square.

Sorry jjgn -- You are wrong. Fountain Square is only a historical district within 2 blocks of the fountain, and along Virginia. Most of the streets and blocks that surround it are not under historical preservation. This is where the economy would benefit from low-rise apartment construction to replace as others suggested the underused and empty lots, and I suggest, poorly built homes in disrepair. Now, whether it would be possible buy enough real estate at fair market value for this type of redevelopment is another question. It would definitely take a lot of political capital by the city and the private developers would face some local opposition. Still, in the end, this or a similar measure is the best thing for a CITY that is losing core population.

The F S Historic District boundaries are much smaller than I thought. Here are the boundaries for Fletcher Place, covering more residential, I think. http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/IHPC/Documents/Maps/fletcherplacemap.jpg

I believe that any medium to large-scale plan for replacement of the existing historic homes in these areas with new construction is wrong. Just because they are doing it in Red China doesn't mean it should happen in Indianapolis.

Has anybody else driven up S. Delaware Street lately -- near Lilly from McCarthy to South Street? Wow - it sure looks different. Along with tearing down the old Indianapolis Newspapers warehouse next to the railroad tracks, crews are also now tearing down the cement wall that had been built along the west side of Delaware. With this gone -- the view coming up Delaware is very different. Now as soon as you get past the Lilly parking garage - the whole skyline - from the JWMarriott to the Lockerbie / E. Washington Street area quickly comes into view - beyond the stretches of vacant land and parking lots.

Pretty soon it will be changing - as the North of South project will start filling in the view to the north -- but right now - its a real gritty, rough looking view - as you primarily see a big, abandoned field area with the elevated, crumbling cement railroad structure running through from South to North - up to near Conseco Fieldhouse. Since I believe it is Lilly that is changing the lot along the west side of Delaware -- I'm sure within another month or two it will be a beautiful, tree lined parking lot. Right now however, it sure looks like a city view from a bombed out section of the South Bronx - in 1978. Actually, its kind of cool looking - in a city that doesn't have a whole lot of downtown "grit".

The F S Historic District boundaries are much smaller than I thought. Here are the boundaries for Fletcher Place, covering more residential, I think. http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/IHPC/Documents/Maps/fletcherplacemap.jpg

I believe that any medium to large-scale plan for replacement of the existing historic homes in these areas with new construction is wrong. Just because they are doing it in Red China doesn't mean it should happen in Indianapolis.

JJGN: Your analogy shows you did not understand my comments, and it's a bit insulting to victims of the Red Chinese government.

Cities work all the time with private developers to buy land and lower the threshold for redevelopment. Sometimes they are heavy-handed and use eminent domain. I oppose that. Rather homeowners and landlords stand to exceed market value for the sale of small stretches of continuous parcels to develop into low rise apartments and townhomes. If you think this is wrong, good luck.

I am curious how you propose to get future residents with higher incomes to chose the older city over the ring county suburbs? Indy is currently losing.

JJGN: Your analogy shows you did not understand my comments, and it's a bit insulting to victims of the Red Chinese government.
....

At least we agree on the concept of Red China.

Speaking of hopefully having some new near southside infill development... Does anybody know what is going on at the corners of East and Sanders, and East and Orange? Both of the corners of this block fronting east street have "public hearing" signs. I think the Bates-Hendricks neighborhood is underrated and hope this is something good for the community.

Speaking of hopefully having some new near southside infill development... Does anybody know what is going on at the corners of East and Sanders, and East and Orange? Both of the corners of this block fronting east street have "public hearing" signs. I think the Bates-Hendricks neighborhood is underrated and hope this is something good for the community.
Multi-unit housing, 14 units across the two plots. Would be a collection of buildings built around the corners of East/Sanders and East/Orange, with surface parking on the interior off the alley. It's on the 4/6 MDC docket with staff approval.

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2011/03/30/nonprofit-group-plans-renovation-of-2-vacant-apartment-buildings/PARAMS/post/26233

This is great - there shouldnt be any major apartment buildings in midtown sitting vacant.

About Fountain Square: I think the biggest obstacle this neighborhood has to overcome in order to grow is historical preservation NIMBYism. There are a certain amount of people who think every structure in Fountain Square should be preserved because they think "old" is the same thing as "historically significant." A number of other neighborhoods near downtown have this same problem.

How on earth is historic preservation holding Fountain Square back? If anything Fountain Square could benefit from more restrictions / education on the use of and proper application of certain building materials etc. It is unbelievable to me to see how much value people throw away when they make ill advised alterations to their homes. I can't think of any great urban development projects in Fountain Square that have been canceled as a result of historic preservationists?

How on earth is historic preservation holding Fountain Square back? If anything Fountain Square could benefit from more restrictions / education on the use of and proper application of certain building materials etc. It is unbelievable to me to see how much value people throw away when they make ill advised alterations to their homes. I can't think of any great urban development projects in Fountain Square that have been canceled as a result of historic preservationists?

Im not sure of any projects. All I am saying is that if a developer knows a neighborhood is under historic preservation (there are a number of these districts around downtown) then it takes a lot more time and effort. Have you seen a list of IHPC hearings lately? I am surprised that landowners are allowed to use the bathroom without getting committee permission.

On an informative note: Steel is now rising from the basement level of the IU Health Neuroscience Center site, and a large crane is now parked at the Trailside site.

Speaking of Fountain Square...I will be starting a blog soon documenting the construction of a house in which I have been involved in the design process. It is a new, affordable, modern home located in Fountain Square. Will post a link once it is up and running!

Coming soon to a city near you? Toll roads galore! Let's hope Governor Pence doesn't decide to pave over the state.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110402/NEWS05/104020343/Bill-would-remove-legislature-from-toll-road-equation?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

As an urbanist, I see toll roads as a blessing. They discourage long commutes and encourage people to live and travel in the city and on the city streets. More traffic on the city streets would create more business opportunities AND as commutes get more diffiicult or expensive people will move closer to the core.

Speaking of Fountain Square...I will be starting a blog soon documenting the construction of a house in which I have been involved in the design process. It is a new, affordable, modern home located in Fountain Square. Will post a link once it is up and running!

this wouldn't happen to be the one planned for the corner of Shelby & Fletcher?

As an urbanist, I see toll roads as a blessing. They discourage long commutes and encourage people to live and travel in the city and on the city streets. More traffic on the city streets would create more business opportunities AND as commutes get more diffiicult or expensive people will move closer to the core.

just curious what do you think about emission standards for indianapolis for autos?

As an urbanist, I see toll roads as a blessing. They discourage long commutes and encourage people to live and travel in the city and on the city streets. More traffic on the city streets would create more business opportunities AND as commutes get more diffiicult or expensive people will move closer to the core.

I doubt this proposed legislation would turn existing freeways into toll roads. The trucking lobby and most citizens would revolt if an existing free highway was converted into a toll road.

Most likely, this legislation would see the re introduction of the Indiana Commerce Connector and Illiana Expressway. Perhaps the leg of I-69 between Bloomington and Indianapolis would be built as a privately funded toll road.

this wouldn't happen to be the one planned for the corner of Shelby & Fletcher?

It would indeed.

I really curious as to what is going on at washington and oxford. A large abandoned warehouse is being demoed

The development of a new mixed-use building at 719 Virginia Avenue is moving forward along the forthcoming Virginia Avenue leg of the Indianapolis Cultural Trail. The "The Hinge" will include 57 modern apartment units and 7,881 square feet of commercial storefront space on Virginia Avenue. Many of the units will have skyline views, and the commercial space will walkout directly onto the Indianapolis Cultural Trail. The building will include 58 garage parking spaces and 22 surface parking spaces.

“In the design of The Hinge, we sought to reflect the new spirit of Fletcher Place as a gateway to a progressive community of artists, writers, designers and interesting people who are calling the near-southeast side of Indianapolis their home. Simple contemporary forms are articulated to express the playful culture of the neighborhood. The palette of color and materials is decidedly urban, and as the building meets the street and Indianapolis Cultural Trail, movement is expressed in the playful patterning of brick masonry. The design is a balance of urban fortitude and the lightness and transience of contemporary life.”

http://www.commercialiq.com/jsp/listings/listing_overview.jsp?listingID=2028067

Im not sure of any projects. All I am saying is that if a developer knows a neighborhood is under historic preservation (there are a number of these districts around downtown) then it takes a lot more time and effort. Have you seen a list of IHPC hearings lately? I am surprised that landowners are allowed to use the bathroom without getting committee permission.

I believe the evidence shows that neighborhoods that receive historic protection status more often than not accelerate their redevelopment and increase property values.

Granted, I can't cite specific studies but don't worry about that... Trust me:)

I really curious as to what is going on at washington and oxford. A large abandoned warehouse is being demoed

You are seeing the demolition of two or three buildings formerly owned and occupied by the Crown Laundry Company. I would guess the sites will need to be remediated considering their former use. Several other buildings nearby in the former P.R. Mallory campus are wonderful redevelopment opportunities.

Everyone check it out: http://urbanhomeindy.wordpress.com

This is a new blog which will be documenting the completion of design and construction of a new, affordable modern home in Fountain Square. More posts will be soon to follow.

Congrats Butler!! Into the NCAA Championship game again!

On an economic benefit related note....

From the april 3, 2011 Indianapolis Star:

Final Four Pays Off

Butler officials now believe they know the value of a Final Four. After last year's run to the National Championship game, a study by a pair of media tracking firms (Borshoff and Meltwater) showed the university gained $639 million in free publicity in print, television and online outlets from March through December 2010. The final game against Duke generated $100 million.

A similar study was put in motion during this year's tournament, which should produce even more accurate numbers.

Can anybody provide specific examples of historic preservation ultimately nixing ANY project downtown? Off the top of my head, I can only think of two where neighborhood input at the IHPC level even had an influence on the height and/or density of a design: The Beilouny (757 Mass) and 500 Walnut (ultimately not built). I can't think of any projects that were killed by preservation.

I'm pretty sure the project at the NE corner of East and 9th was scaled back pretty significantly by IHPC and I also believe the recent project on the west side of East between Ohio and New York was reduced in height because of IHPC review.

I'm a supporter of IHPC, in general, but I do think that some of these reductions in height, especially the one at 9th & East (only two stories) go overboard.

Having an official historic district is a lagging indicator. As a general rule, official designation is only sought after enough yuppies have moved in and decided they want to be able to block any new development they don't like. Virtually all historic districts are by resident demand simply to enable arbitrary rejection of any development they don't like, and are seldom about bona fide historic preservation.

The proliferation of historic districts in Indy is one reason I'm skeptical we'll get the change we need to see. They are also part of the reason that the urban core of Indianapolis is simply a bad place to invest and do business in, period.

We've got to eventually get to a situation where most development in the urban core can be built as of right, and certainly not without having to get someone like Susan Williams to sign off on it.

Multi-unit housing, 14 units across the two plots. Would be a collection of buildings built around the corners of East/Sanders and East/Orange, with surface parking on the interior off the alley. It's on the 4/6 MDC docket with staff approval.

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/Planning/Zoning/Documents/mdc/4-6-11mdcstaff.pdf

I like the form/location of this infill, but I'm not a big fan of the elevations. I saw a clearer elevation somewhere and it appears that they are just patching together every siding material they could come up with, concrete block, hardi-panel, brick, etc. Maybe someone with a better architecture pedigree, who has seen these, can better break it down for us.

Having an official historic district is a lagging indicator. As a general rule, official designation is only sought after enough yuppies have moved in and decided they want to be able to block any new development they don't like. Virtually all historic districts are by resident demand simply to enable arbitrary rejection of any development they don't like, and are seldom about bona fide historic preservation.

The proliferation of historic districts in Indy is one reason I'm skeptical we'll get the change we need to see. They are also part of the reason that the urban core of Indianapolis is simply a bad place to invest and do business in, period.

We've got to eventually get to a situation where most development in the urban core can be built as of right, and certainly not without having to get someone like Susan Williams to sign off on it.

Ouch! That's some biting criticism. I think that an important function of the historic districts is as a substitute for a horrific zoning ordinance that encourages suburban-type, auto-oriented development. I also think that being in a historic district results in better enforcement of building/health codes to ensure that renovations and additions are actually built to code, irrespective of purely aesthetic concerns. These issues need to be addressed uniformly across the City, but until the zoning code is completely overhauled and the building codes are properly and punctually enforced, then I think the historic districts are beneficial, despite their faults.

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/Planning/Zoning/Documents/mdc/4-6-11mdcstaff.pdf

I like the form/location of this infill, but I'm not a big fan of the elevations. I saw a clearer elevation somewhere and it appears that they are just patching together every siding material they could come up with, concrete block, hardi-panel, brick, etc. Maybe someone with a better architecture pedigree, who has seen these, can better break it down for us.

Thank you Idyllic, I completely agree! I feel like a broken record when I make that comment. Apparently the more facade treatments and materials the better. I would love to understand why this seems to be a recurring theme in Indianapolis architecture.

It may have something to do with Ratio being so big in Indy. Starting with the Emmis Building (in my memory), It seems like many of their designs consist of 3 to 4 different facades smashed together. The Simon Building is a perfect example. I think people either see it as avant-garde or they simply want to build the village all a once... Why wait for the city to develop organically when you can build one building that looks like 5 buildings.

That said, I do think Ratio's newer stuff is looking much cleaner with fewer materials and simpler forms.

Ouch! I also think that being in a historic district results in better enforcement of building/health codes to ensure that renovations and additions are actually built to code, irrespective of purely aesthetic concerns.

The better enforcement is probably just correlated with the yuppies that create the historic preservation push to begin with. They shouldn't be able to control everything that is built in their neighborhood. They should only be able to voice their concerns to the DMD, report non-compliance, and report unsafe structures to Code Enforcement. Our greatest invention as humans is the city, lets take pride in our city being a city. We have enough suburbs and small town BS surrounding downtown to satisfy the NIMBY's and the Yuppies. Our city needs to be a high contrast alternative to the suburbs, not just some kind of sleepy little quaint historic district.

I do like having designated neighborhoods or historic districts, or whatever you want to call them. They give the areas of our city definition and enhance the character of our city as a whole. However, I am against historic preservation districts as they exist now. The test should not be if the building would "fit" the historic nature of the area; the question should be "is the building completely offensive" to the historic nature of the area. Requiring new development to conform to the past is a backwards way to plan for the future. Respect the past but keep moving forward.


Apparently the more facade treatments and materials the better. I would love to understand why this seems to be a recurring theme in Indianapolis architecture.
^^ +1

Everyone check it out: http://urbanhomeindy.wordpress.com

This is a new blog which will be documenting the completion of design and construction of a new, affordable modern home in Fountain Square. More posts will be soon to follow.

As a FS resident, welcome your bro to the neighborhood for me. Lots of people excited about the project in the neighborhood. :-)

I recently learned that Max Anderson himself contacted the city about the art component at North of South. The IMA is going to be involved with directing the selection of art. HUGE win for multiple reasons and bodes well for the future of culture in the city.

New North of South Renderings and website?

http://www.nosindy.com/index.php

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5055/5589415184_95a046e399.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/64262017@N00/5589415184/)NoS_ProjectStreetView2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/64262017@N00/5589415184/) by hostetlermatt (http://www.flickr.com/people/64262017@N00/), on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5181/5589415042_15148db853.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/64262017@N00/5589415042/)nos_com_3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/64262017@N00/5589415042/) by hostetlermatt (http://www.flickr.com/people/64262017@N00/), on Flickr

^^ Man, can't wait until they get started. Should be pretty soon, I would think - since they hope to have parts of it ready by mid 2012. (I don't think there is any way any part of it will be ready by Super Bowl time in February -- but hopefully a nice chunk of it will be well underway by then.)

The hotel has a Federal building look and color to it.

I'm pretty sure the project at the NE corner of East and 9th was scaled back pretty significantly by IHPC and I also believe the recent project on the west side of East between Ohio and New York was reduced in height because of IHPC review.

I'm a supporter of IHPC, in general, but I do think that some of these reductions in height, especially the one at 9th & East (only two stories) go overboard.

The condos on the corner of 10th and Broadway are right in the heart of Chatam Arch and look stunning. They have a very contrasting contemporary design, but carefully anchor the corner and do not intrude or devalue the neighboring structures. I love the building. It also violates the Chatam Arch/Mass Ave historical districts charter on almost every point.

A block north is a row of townhouses that fit the Chatam Arch/Mass Ave historical district guidelines very well and look like shit. They are among the worst infill around downtown. So what is the historical district charter really for?

These areas certainly need to be protected on some level, but fundamentally need a board served by architects, designers, historians, and businessmen to function as guardians against bad design and the aggressive demolition of architecturally important buildings. I know that IHPC does do this, but their emphasis is too limited to "historical preservation", even if that stagnates the cultural and economic development. Good contemporary design that does not devalue existing structures should be encouraged, especially if it can bring in more residents to downtown areas.

Good contemporary design that does not devalue existing structures should be encouraged, especially if it can bring in more residents to downtown areas.

This is the current reason for historical districts. They are anti density establishments that only want to preserve low density and low populations

The condos on the corner of 10th and Broadway are right in the heart of Chatam Arch and look stunning. They have a very contrasting contemporary design, but carefully anchor the corner and do not intrude or devalue the neighboring structures. I love the building. It also violates the Chatam Arch/Mass Ave historical districts charter on almost every point.

A block north is a row of townhouses that fit the Chatam Arch/Mass Ave historical district guidelines very well and look like shit. They are among the worst infill around downtown. So what is the historical district charter really for?

These areas certainly need to be protected on some level, but fundamentally need a board served by architects, designers, historians, and businessmen to function as guardians against bad design and the aggressive demolition of architecturally important buildings. I know that IHPC does do this, but their emphasis is too limited to "historical preservation", even if that stagnates the cultural and economic development. Good contemporary design that does not devalue existing structures should be encouraged, especially if it can bring in more residents to downtown areas.

I don't believe IHPC discourages contemporary design. Please refer me to the plan/guidline that does this.

This is the current reason for historical districts. They are anti density establishments that only want to preserve low density and low populations

Do they really? Honestly I haven't paid much attention to IHPC hearings. How are they pushing for low densities and preserving low populations?

As a FS resident, welcome your bro to the neighborhood for me. Lots of people excited about the project in the neighborhood. :-)

Thanks! He is very excited as am I. FS is a great neighborhood. I see a lot of great things in its future.

I don't believe IHPC discourages contemporary design. Please refer me to the plan/guidline that does this.

This is a link to IHPC. Every district has a charter/plan written to describe appropriate development guidelines. Some of them are interesting to glance through.

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/IHPC/Pages/home.aspx

Hardware store just north of downtown
This would be another excellent improvement in the near north part of downtown. A hardware store with potential additional tenants leasing spots within the building.

http://www.ibj.com/hardware-store-slated-for-old-wfyi-building/PARAMS/article/26347

Now if the old abandoned Peyton Chevrolet site across the street - and the lot to the north of this building could be developed with residential and/or mixed uses -- it wouldn't be too bad of a stretch between I-65 and 16th Street. The proposed grocery store at around 23rd and Meridian (hope that will happen - haven't heard much lately on it - nor seen any site improvements) would also be good to help encourage a more attractive neighborhood where some higher density residential could go in.

Speaking of the N. Meridian Corridor -- the improvements at the old St. Vincents Hospital site on the Ivy Tech campus are coming along pretty well. The addition they are putting on definitely adds a lot of additional square footage.

Here are a few bits from the article I linked to above:

A hardware store is hoping to open in the old WFYI building at 1433 N. Meridian St., city officials said.

The Metropolitan Development Commission’s Hearing Officer on Tuesday morning granted approval for the reuse of the building that the public broadcaster vacated in May 2008.

The store would be called North Meridian Hardware and would be located on the first floor of the two-story building. Other retailers, such as a coffee shop, eventually could take space on the ground level, according to renderings submitted to the city. Payne hopes to open the store by August.

Variances were granted to reduce off-street parking for the store from 108 to 46 spaces and to allow a larger projecting sign than usually permitted

Do they really? Honestly I haven't paid much attention to IHPC hearings. How are they pushing for low densities and preserving low populations?

Did you not see this?

I'm pretty sure the project at the NE corner of East and 9th was scaled back pretty significantly by IHPC and I also believe the recent project on the west side of East between Ohio and New York was reduced in height because of IHPC review.

A) IHPC actively encourages designs that are "of their time". In no way do they discourage contemporary design. The condo project at 10th and Broadway is actually a perfect example of this mindset, not evidence of an inappropriate design that somehow slipped past IHPC.

B) East and 9th was not scaled down, despite Chatham Arch Neighborhood Association opposition. The original building was a one-story nursing home and the developer proposed a two-story mixed use building. CANA opposed both the density and the mixed-use nature of the project but IHPC overruled them and determined that East/9th was a "transitional area" and a mixed use project was perfectly appropriate.

http://www.ibj.com/condo-sales-lag-in-hot-downtown-apartment-market/PARAMS/article/26314

Also...

http://www.ibj.com/uindy-to-add-dorm-for-upperclass-students/PARAMS/article/26343

I hope to see UIndy transform the southside even more

I recently learned that Max Anderson himself contacted the city about the art component at North of South. The IMA is going to be involved with directing the selection of art. HUGE win for multiple reasons and bodes well for the future of culture in the city.

let me correct: the IMA will be involved in art direction for NoS but the city made the connection happen.

A) IHPC actively encourages designs that are "of their time". In no way do they discourage contemporary design. The condo project at 10th and Broadway is actually a perfect example of this mindset, not evidence of an inappropriate design that somehow slipped past IHPC.

B) East and 9th was not scaled down, despite Chatham Arch Neighborhood Association opposition. The original building was a one-story nursing home and the developer proposed a two-story mixed use building. CANA opposed both the density and the mixed-use nature of the project but IHPC overruled them and determined that East/9th was a "transitional area" and a mixed use project was perfectly appropriate.

I never wrote IHPC discourages contemporary design. You incorrectly inferred that.

There is an irony when you compare both properties and the degree to which they conform and deviate from the historic districts guidelines. In one case IHPC acted appropriately by making an exceptions, and in another blew it on a bad design that fit the guidelines well. Votes on 10th and Broadway could have very easily gone the other way if one stringently followed the guidelines. Still, I'm mostly glad to have an organization like IHPC. The carnage around downtown would be unbearable without their influence.

The property at East and 9th was first proposed to be more than 2 stories. The height reflects the compromise struck. IHPC probably did the appropriate thing here, though I think 3 stories would have been a better use of the parcel.

Hardware store just north of downtown
This would be another excellent improvement in the near north part of downtown. A hardware store with potential additional tenants leasing spots within the building.

http://www.ibj.com/hardware-store-slated-for-old-wfyi-building/PARAMS/article/26347

Now if the old abandoned Peyton Chevrolet site across the street - and the lot to the north of this building could be developed with residential and/or mixed uses -- it wouldn't be too bad of a stretch between I-65 and 16th Street. The proposed grocery store at around 23rd and Meridian (hope that will happen - haven't heard much lately on it - nor seen any site improvements) would also be good to help encourage a more attractive neighborhood where some higher density residential could go in.

Speaking of the N. Meridian Corridor -- the improvements at the old St. Vincents Hospital site on the Ivy Tech campus are coming along pretty well. The addition they are putting on definitely adds a lot of additional square footage.

:):):)

Hmm. Pharmacies, doctors, dentists, banks, reasonable rental prices and lots of jobs in the area. Grocery and hardware coming. Not too far from Central Library, Cultural Trail, and Mass Ave. Convenient (i.e. walk) to Ivy Tech and Brown Mackie College; ride People Mover to IUPUI. Good bus service to and from Downtown, Broad Ripple, and 38th Street.

Sounds like a good place to live and/or work.

:):):)

Hmm. Pharmacies, doctors, dentists, banks, reasonable rental prices and lots of jobs in the area. Grocery and hardware coming. Not too far from Central Library, Cultural Trail, and Mass Ave. Convenient (i.e. walk) to Ivy Tech and Brown Mackie College; ride People Mover to IUPUI. Good bus service to and from Downtown, Broad Ripple, and 38th Street.

Sounds like a good place to live and/or work.

I live there. Apparatus and this new hardware along with the CVS and Walgreens are directly in front of my building. It is one of the most convenient places for a renter to live in the downtown area. You can walk to most of the venues downtown, it has great interstate access. I dont know why developers arent building newer apartments in this area- as infill between all of the brownstones. This area is one of the few areas in town where it feels like an East coast city architecturewise as oppose to midwest. I also love how a canyon is slowly forming along 16th - now if ghetto Kroger can pull it together.

Hey, got a question. I am probably going to be flying my girlfriend into Indianapolis from Seattle in a few weeks. How is it for me getting parked, going to the gate etc? I have not been in an airport for 10 years, I drive everywhere. That was all before 9-11. Thanks, any help would be appreciated.

Hey, got a question. I am probably going to be flying my girlfriend into Indianapolis from Seattle in a few weeks. How is it for me getting parked, going to the gate etc? I have not been in an airport for 10 years, I drive everywhere. That was all before 9-11. Thanks, any help would be appreciated.

Only ticketed passengers can get past the ticket counters to go to the gates. Without a departure ticket, you'll have to wait at baggage claim or the ticket counters. I'm not sure about the new terminal, but they had convenient cheap short-term parking at the old terminal. You can't wait in your car outside the terminal; they'll constantly shoo you away, but they have a "cell phone lot" where you can wait to be called to pick someone up outside the terminal.

Still, I'm mostly glad to have an organization like IHPC. The carnage around downtown would be unbearable without their influence.

The property at East and 9th was first proposed to be more than 2 stories. The height reflects the compromise struck. IHPC probably did the appropriate thing here, though I think 3 stories would have been a better use of the parcel.

I agree with you that we're better off w/ IHPC than w/o. I think they help raise the bar for the level of design, architecturally, aesthetically, and pedestrian-wise in Center Township. But I can't for the life of me figure out how a 3 or 4-story building along East Street could be inappropriate regardless of the fact that 1.5 to 2-story homes are prevalent across the alley to the east. It's not only downtown, but it's on a main thoroughfare downtown. I could agree more if it were on Park or Broadway, but to limit a building to two stories on East Street seems ridiculously restrictive.

IndyYeah it's not expensive to park in the garage then walk across the bridge thingey with the interactive flashing light ceiling into the huge main arrival atrium space, and it's actually a really nice space to hang in while waiting for your guest to arrive. From the main atrium there are two entries from which deplaning passengers enter, and the hugs there (both my own and the ones I witness) always make me feel happy!

I never wrote IHPC discourages contemporary design. You incorrectly inferred that.

There is an irony when you compare both properties and the degree to which they conform and deviate from the historic districts guidelines. In one case IHPC acted appropriately by making an exceptions, and in another blew it on a bad design that fit the guidelines well. Votes on 10th and Broadway could have very easily gone the other way if one stringently followed the guidelines. Still, I'm mostly glad to have an organization like IHPC. The carnage around downtown would be unbearable without their influence.

The property at East and 9th was first proposed to be more than 2 stories. The height reflects the compromise struck. IHPC probably did the appropriate thing here, though I think 3 stories would have been a better use of the parcel.

I think Chris's point is that the contemporary design was not an exception... It most likely fit within the guidelines. Is there language in any of the historic preservation plans that forbids a specific style an/or elements associated with that style?

I drive everywhere.

everywhere? really?

I also love how a canyon is slowly forming along 16th - now if ghetto Kroger can pull it together.

If someone is out on 16th with a camera, it's quite a long view looking west from 16th & Delaware. It almost looks like DiRimini (a stack of cardboard boxes) right now. :lol:

At minimum, I'd expect Kroger to ask for a newer, bigger sign since the current one will visually melt into 16Park (looking from the west down 16th) and be invisible from the east.

If someone is out on 16th with a camera, it's quite a long view looking west from 16th & Delaware. It almost looks like DiRimini (a stack of cardboard boxes) right now. :lol:

At minimum, I'd expect Kroger to ask for a newer, bigger sign since the current one will visually melt into 16Park (looking from the west down 16th) and be invisible from the east.

I was factoring in the Neuroscience center as well. I wish more development would form along the thoroughfares- 16th, 38th, Meridian, College, Washington, 10th.

If someone is out on 16th with a camera, it's quite a long view looking west from 16th & Delaware. It almost looks like DiRimini (a stack of cardboard boxes) right now. :lol:

At minimum, I'd expect Kroger to ask for a newer, bigger sign since the current one will visually melt into 16Park (looking from the west down 16th) and be invisible from the east.

I meant looking EAST from 16th & Delaware. West from 16th & College.:ohno:

Thanks for the info, I wish that I had flown recently, so I am stuck in the 90's with the airport thingy. True, I drive everywhere!

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110406/LOCAL1802/104060323/6-acre-solar-energy-project-will-Indiana-s-biggest-yet?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|p

A huge solar panel installation? Will that kick us off the map for being "least green state"?

http://pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/The-United-States-of-Shame.png

National Apartments on the Monon

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5188/5597316751_95e9f02f1f_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5264/5597901856_ee3fd26ed5_z.jpg

^^^ Those are pretty nice. I have not seen this project before, where is it located?

22nd Street & Yandes St (about a block east of the monon) and just down the block from the Project School

Georgia Street this week. Looks like they are starting to fill the hole back in

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5092/5594948119_45f2e571bc_z.jpg

Does anyone know what is going on at the corner of 20th and Bellfontaine? There are public hearing signs up- this area is about to boom.

I'm not sure what is going up at 20th and Bellfontaine -- but whatever it is, along with the new National Apartments, those projects could probably be considered some of the first T.O.D. (Transit Oriented Development) projects in the city. Technically, the transit is not there yet --- but - the plans that hopefully will get approved before too long, will include putting the northeast corridor commuter rail in place between the far NE side and downtown. The route goes right through this area - and this new development is likely occurring at least partly in anticipation of that transit plan being approved and a stop being located somewhere in close proximity.

The Monon Trail currently goes right through that area too -- so, until transit is approved, people living there will be able to live in a place with another modal transportation option - namely an easy 2 1/2 mile bike trip down the Monon and the Cultural Trail into downtown. Likewise - the Cultural Trail extension to Fountain Square and new bike lanes down Shelby St. will open up additional areas in the southern part of the central city to excellent bicycling access into downtown. Here's a link to a map showing Indy's 10 year plan for expanding bike lanes and greenways throughout the City:

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DPW/SustainIndy/Bikeways/Plans/Documents/05_bikeways_10_years.pdf

I really hope that Shelby Ave lane happens. The vision for that thing rivals even the Cultural trail, even though it would be short. Separated bike lanes, (including contraflow) on an Indy city street would be a HUGE win.

A huge solar panel installation? Will that kick us off the map for being "least green state"?

http://pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/The-United-States-of-Shame.png

The Feds spent (okay, invested) $35 million to save $475,000 per year (I assume the projection is based on present utility costs). That is a 74-year payback, most likely longer than the life of the panels. Put another way, it's a 1.36% annual return on investment for a tax-free entity. It only makes sense when the US government can borrow money cheaper than that...which it can't. 10-year Treasuries pay 3.55%.

Electricity in Indiana isn't hostage to oil, and is unlikely to double or triple in cost absent huge carbon-dioxide taxes on coal-burning thermoelectric plants.

As I used to say to engineers I worked with, "Sure, in your lab you can do just about anything once as proof of concept. But the question in a mass-market product or commodity is, can you afford to do it a million times?"

Even with "free money" (Fed funds), this project does not make economic sense. Would GM or SIA or Honda put this installation on the roof of their factory? No.

I'm no tea-party nut, but I'd still like to see a positive return and a payback of less than 20 years for a government investment.

The economics dont make sense right now Chris. But like everthing else in business, before it is rolled out enmass, it is expensive.

The company I work for spends a LOT of money on concept and low volume products. But when something is optimized for mass roll out, the price drops like a rock.

Getting solar/wind to that point remains the biggest challenge. Oil/Natural Gas/Coal have decades on them in development and supply base proliferation.

Does anyone know what is going on at the corner of 20th and Bellfontaine? There are public hearing signs up- this area is about to boom.

I believe this might be where King Park CDC is proposing to build some doubles with federal funds. If this is that project, I believe they are asking for some kind of special zoning that would allow them to build doubles of a non-traditional design, and draw a property line through the building following the zig-zagging common wall.

If not already posted: Indianapolis 1916

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXPlHqiT7r4&feature=player_embedded

^^ Thanks Arenn! That is fantastic. Love the scenes with all of the cars, people and streetcars passing through .... it looks like the intersection of Washington and Illinois -- still pretty much one of our busiest downtown intersections. Cool.


Also --- I posted a note in the North of South thread, but to spread the word here too --- North of South site-work has begun!

The Feds spent (okay, invested) $35 million to save $475,000 per year (I assume the projection is based on present utility costs). That is a 74-year payback, most likely longer than the life of the panels.

CDC, I'm not sure if your numbers make sense. Your assumption is energy costs will remain stagnant (i.e. 0% inflation) for 74 years. Nothing remains stagnant for 74 years. Pegging energy inflation at a very conservative 3% would result in a payoff in the range of 30-40 years. Still a long time but much shorter than your figures. Of course there will be some maintenance cost.

My own belief though is that carbon will become much more expensive over the next 20 years as the effects of global warming become harder to deny. In this case the payoff could be dramatically shorter than 30-40 years.

Beyond the financials though, this is a pretty cool project, and very interesting experiment for one of the largest federal buildings in the nation. The Fed has spent 35 million on much sillier things.

Bosart, the big problem with your equation is that your discount rate is higher than 3%. cdc is actually being generous with that math because it ignores the time value of money.

Bosart, the big problem with your equation is that your discount rate is higher than 3%. cdc is actually being generous with that math because it ignores the time value of money.

1.36% is the return today, but with energy inflation the return will increase with every year that passes. (i.e. $475,000 this year $500,000 next and so on).

Besides this, the fed doesn't make money off of interest rate spreads, private banks do. The fed loans out money and pretty close to 0% these days to increase the flow of money due to the deep recession

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110410/BUSINESS04/304100001/1279/BUSINESS04/Downtown-has-become-magnet-young-educated-residents

From the Sunday Star. It discusses the increase in 25-34 year olds moving into downtown Indianapolis. These findings weren't surprising to me or probably to most of you. But it publicizes two good points: (1) That demand for downtown rentals exceeds supply, and (2) Downtown is the choice area to live during the first two decades of adult life.

News like this can push the supply of and demand for downtown living further.

If not already posted: Indianapolis 1916

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXPlHqiT7r4&feature=player_embedded

So, where is 'Pearl Street?' The only Pearl I can find on google maps is in West Newton.

So, where is 'Pearl Street?' The only Pearl I can find on google maps is in West Newton.

It's an alley that runs East/West between Washington St & Maryland.

There is also a "Public Hearing" sign at an old gas station on 16th at the corner of New Jersey (I believe)

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110410/LOCAL18/104100378/Mid-North-Indy-neighborhoods-work-their-future?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|s

I can't believe people are bitching about a $35 million project that saves the government money in the long run. That is a tenth the cost of a military aircraft. Now THAT is a waste of money.

I can't believe people are bitching about a $35 million project that saves the government money in the long run. That is a tenth the cost of a military aircraft. Now THAT is a waste of money.

It doesn't save money in the long run. This isn't like a "public good" (bridges, roads, defense equipment) for which it's difficult or impossible to calculate a rate of return or a payback. It costs money from day 1.

This is a straightforward trade of $35 million the US Government borrowed at 3+ percent (annual interest cost of $1,242,500) for an annual savings of $475,000.

None of us would borrow $35,000 on a home equity loan and spend it on something that saved only $475 a year on utility bills. (Note: this is the same equation with 3 fewer zeroes, though our interest rate would be even higher than Uncle Sam's.)

Speaking of Georgia Street, does anyone know if the buildings along it are planning to add retail/store fronts? It would be a shame to have such a great pedestrian corridor and for it to remain as is with long blank walls. Nordstrom should expand the size of their display windows, Jillians should install the same floor to ceiling window openings as their Merdian Frontage. Further, the building at the corner of Georgia and Penn seems to have a number of retail/restaurant opportunities...

Speaking of Georgia Street, does anyone know if the buildings along it are planning to add retail/store fronts? It would be a shame to have such a great pedestrian corridor and for it to remain as is with long blank walls. Nordstrom should expand the size of their display windows, Jillians should install the same floor to ceiling window openings as their Merdian Frontage. Further, the building at the corner of Georgia and Penn seems to have a number of retail/restaurant opportunities...

It would be really nice to have an actual mall entrance on Georgia. Unfortunately, I think Harry & Izzy's used all the available space over to the garage entrance.

An alternate approach would be to funnel people from the street up to the skywalk that passes between Hooters & the Omni. Maybe do something to make the skywalk interact with the people on the street.

It doesn't save money in the long run. This isn't like a "public good" (bridges, roads, defense equipment) for which it's difficult or impossible to calculate a rate of return or a payback. It costs money from day 1.

This is a straightforward trade of $35 million the US Government borrowed at 3+ percent (annual interest cost of $1,242,500) for an annual savings of $475,000.

None of us would borrow $35,000 on a home equity loan and spend it on something that saved only $475 a year on utility bills. (Note: this is the same equation with 3 fewer zeroes, though our interest rate would be even higher than Uncle Sam's.)

Does anyone know where the solar panels are being manufactured? I didn't see that mentioned in the article.

Speaking of Georgia Street, does anyone know if the buildings along it are planning to add retail/store fronts? It would be a shame to have such a great pedestrian corridor and for it to remain as is with long blank walls. Nordstrom should expand the size of their display windows, Jillians should install the same floor to ceiling window openings as their Merdian Frontage. Further, the building at the corner of Georgia and Penn seems to have a number of retail/restaurant opportunities...

That's the problem with downtown Indy....most of the retail is confined to the indoor Circle Centre Mall. All downtown retail establishments should be built along the street with store fronts...not inside an enclosed mall. Sorry, but I'm not a big fan of Circle Centre Mall. Enclosed malls are for the suburbs and really are a thing of the past. That's why our pedestrian traffic suffers.

I'm also not a big fan of these enclosed tunnels and sky walks that connect certain buildings. Another reason why our pedestrian traffic suffers. Come on man! Get outside and walk!

Sorry, but I'm from the old school. Thoughts anyone???

I hate malls too... But CC has really helped bring people downtown to shop. Better that we have it than don't. Now we need to develop better places to shop outside of the mall so people don't come DT for the mall, they come DT for DT generally.

More reporting of insufficiency in rentals near downtown.

http://www.ibj.com/condo-sales-lag-in-hot-downtown-apartment-market/PARAMS/article/26314

Does anyone else agree that IBJ is the top newspaper in Indy?

That's the problem with downtown Indy....most of the retail is confined to the indoor Circle Centre Mall. All downtown retail establishments should be built along the street with store fronts...not inside an enclosed mall. Sorry, but I'm not a big fan of Circle Centre Mall. Enclosed malls are for the suburbs and really are a thing of the past. That's why our pedestrian traffic suffers.

I'm also not a big fan of these enclosed tunnels and sky walks that connect certain buildings. Another reason why our pedestrian traffic suffers. Come on man! Get outside and walk!

Sorry, but I'm from the old school. Thoughts anyone???

I doubt anyone here will disagree with you in the abstract, meaning that if all things were equal, we would prefer a vibrant, street level retail district that stretched down through the blighted buildings of East Washington Street. Of course, we don't live in the abstract. Circle Center was an important investment in downtown, and if it hadn't been built, my guess is that in 2011 downtown Indy would have less, not more, pedestrian traffic. As it stands, Circle Center does pretty well from a street level perspective. Nordstrom and Carson's have multiple street level entrances. Most of the Street level restaurants can be accessed without going into the mall, and some of them (Ruth's Chris, Oceanire, and Einstein's, among others) cannot be accessed from the mall. The Mall wraps around the historic buildings that house St. Elmo's, the Canterbury. Most parking is underground, and the above-ground parking garage at the southeast corner of Illinois and Maryland, while unsightly above ground level, has a good half-dozen restaurant and retail spaces along its perimeter. That's not to say the Mall is perfect--the Washington Street facade is a blank wall--but overall I think the Mall integrates pretty well with the surrounding city, and provides lots of storefront space (granted, mostly to restaurants, not retail). I have nothing but my gut to prove this, but I would guess that the Mall puts more people on the streets of downtown than it takes from them.

I doubt anyone here will disagree with you in the abstract, meaning that if all things were equal, we would prefer a vibrant, street level retail district that stretched down through the blighted buildings of East Washington Street. Of course, we don't live in the abstract. Circle Center was an important investment in downtown, and if it hadn't been built, my guess is that in 2011 downtown Indy would have less, not more, pedestrian traffic. As it stands, Circle Center does pretty well from a street level perspective. Nordstrom and Carson's have multiple street level entrances. Most of the Street level restaurants can be accessed without going into the mall, and some of them (Ruth's Chris, Oceanire, and Einstein's, among others) cannot be accessed from the mall. The Mall wraps around the historic buildings that house St. Elmo's, the Canterbury. Most parking is underground, and the above-ground parking garage at the southeast corner of Illinois and Maryland, while unsightly above ground level, has a good half-dozen restaurant and retail spaces along its perimeter. That's not to say the Mall is perfect--the Washington Street facade is a blank wall--but overall I think the Mall integrates pretty well with the surrounding city, and provides lots of storefront space (granted, mostly to restaurants, not retail). I have nothing but my gut to prove this, but I would guess that the Mall puts more people on the streets of downtown than it takes from them.

I remember reading (but don't remember where) that Circle Centre gets a staggering proportion of its sales from visitors to the city.

Now, some of the "visitors" could be people from outstate Indiana coming to "the big city" to shop, dine, and be entertained (sports or shows). But I have the impression that the skywalk connections to hotels and Convention Center are an essential part of the mall's health because they deliver business and convention visitors.

IBJ: A local insurance company is reviving three-year-old plans to build a headquarters building downtown. (http://www.ibj.com/insurance-agency-revives-plans-for-downtown-building/PARAMS/article/26487)



An affiliate of McGowan Insurance Group Inc. will seek Regional Center Approval April 28 to proceed with construction of a $2.75 million, 19,000-square-foot building at 355 Indiana Avenue. The two-story, brick veneer-clad structure will contain some space for lease, said Hugh M. McGowan, the firm’s president.

Parking lot in front... BOoooooo

Yes --- I'd like to see a site plan for the layout of that project. I can't figure it out from the description. I cannot believe there would be parking in front of the building within the mile square. It must be next to it. Its hard to figure out the layout and how things will all fit in on that triangular block.

IBJ: A local insurance company is reviving three-year-old plans to build a headquarters building downtown. (http://www.ibj.com/insurance-agency-revives-plans-for-downtown-building/PARAMS/article/26487)



An affiliate of McGowan Insurance Group Inc. will seek Regional Center Approval April 28 to proceed with construction of a $2.75 million, 19,000-square-foot building at 355 Indiana Avenue. The two-story, brick veneer-clad structure will contain some space for lease, said Hugh M. McGowan, the firm’s president.

Parking lot in front... BOoooooo

This is a joke. A two-story brick veneer "SHACK" sitting in the shadows of the only concentration of skyscrapers in the state, and a block from the state house. Deny Regional Center approval.

This is a joke. A two-story brick veneer "SHACK" sitting in the shadows of the only concentration of skyscrapers in the state, and a block from the state house. Deny Regional Center approval.

I agree, I hope this is denied and sent back to the drawing board. We need to start sending a message that mediocre suburban-style structures aren't good enough for our city anymore.

IBJ: A local insurance company is reviving three-year-old plans to build a headquarters building downtown. (http://www.ibj.com/insurance-agency-revives-plans-for-downtown-building/PARAMS/article/26487)



An affiliate of McGowan Insurance Group Inc. will seek Regional Center Approval April 28 to proceed with construction of a $2.75 million, 19,000-square-foot building at 355 Indiana Avenue. The two-story, brick veneer-clad structure will contain some space for lease, said Hugh M. McGowan, the firm’s president.

Parking lot in front... BOoooooo

It makes me question why there is a gravel parking lot with a barbed-wire fence along Vermont Street there today. Neither of those are permitted by City Code. The lax code enforcement that's been prevalent in Indy for decades makes it a lot easier to push the "well, it would be a lot better than what's there today" argument.

It makes me question why there is a gravel parking lot with a barbed-wire fence along Vermont Street there today. Neither of those are permitted by City Code. The lax code enforcement that's been prevalent in Indy for decades makes it a lot easier to push the "well, it would be a lot better than what's there today" argument.

While I don't like the building, it is better than what is there. There are plenty of parking lots that need to be filled in, so I guess this is a start.

If it is all or nothing I would rather take all. This area is going to take decades to get where we would all want it to be. Maybe in 20 years we will be cheering a new building going in its place.

On the up side it will bring 30-40 new employees to the area (west of capitol) every day, and however many customers. Add in the second cosmo and maybe a new retail district might get going...

Just trying to see an upside to a crappy project.

IBJ: A local insurance company is reviving three-year-old plans to build a headquarters building downtown. (http://www.ibj.com/insurance-agency-revives-plans-for-downtown-building/PARAMS/article/26487)



An affiliate of McGowan Insurance Group Inc. will seek Regional Center Approval April 28 to proceed with construction of a $2.75 million, 19,000-square-foot building at 355 Indiana Avenue. The two-story, brick veneer-clad structure will contain some space for lease, said Hugh M. McGowan, the firm’s president.

Parking lot in front... BOoooooo

For a little less money, they could buy and renovate the former Boy Scouts building at 19th & Meridian or any number of other buildings on the Meridian corridor. (Most of the ones currently for sale have parking behind.)

It wont cost them any more or less money to conform to regional center guidelines. If they want parking put it in the back. Seems like an easy ask for the panel.

As for empty space, they already own the lot. I can see why they are interested in leveraging assets that they already own. If they were simply looking to move into someone elses property I could see getting uptight about that.

It populates an empty lot that could take a dead area and make it a little nicer. With some changes to their plan, this wouldnt be a total loss.

The other way to look at this, is that the tax abatment is basically a shot at digging into the parking lot cost. At $10k-$20k a parking space (roughly) thats a hefty pricetag for a parking lot just to be in the regional center.

I agree, I hope this is denied and sent back to the drawing board. We need to start sending a message that mediocre suburban-style structures aren't good enough for our city anymore.

You got it UrbanIndy. This is totally inappropriate for the heart of the CBD.

Somebody put forward a supportive arguement that does not involve, "It's better than nothing." It's worse than nothing -- It holds a key intersection along Indiana Avenue hostage for decades. The structure should mirror the Cosmo and future Cosmo II in height. Appropriate use would be 2 floors of office space and 3 to 4 of apartment housing.

Yes, Circle Centre's primary customer is from outside of the metro - I have insider knowledge ;)

Update from Georgia Street. Lighting isn't ideal, but you get the idea

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5307/5615774821_d0780ed394.jpg

You got it UrbanIndy. This is totally inappropriate for the heart of the CBD.

Somebody put forward a supportive arguement that does not involve, "It's better than nothing." It's worse than nothing -- It holds a key intersection along Indiana Avenue hostage for decades. The structure should mirror the Cosmo and future Cosmo II in height. Appropriate use would be 2 floors of office space and 3 to 4 of apartment housing.

Hear, hear.

It is definitely worse than nothing.

IBJ:Chamber leaders clashed on transit strategy (http://www.ibj.com/chamber-leaders-clashed-on-transit-strategy/PARAMS/article/26543)

Hmmm....

Yes, Circle Centre's primary customer is from outside of the metro - I have insider knowledge ;)

This is actually very normal. Many retail areas located near major convention centers and tourist/sports complexes owe a lot of their financial success to out of town visitors.

Got another question. What nice hotel downtown would anyone prefer in downtown? In the 100-150 a night range. I am talking close to nightlife even add the hotel bar for a nightcap? Thanks.

Got another question. What nice hotel downtown would anyone prefer in downtown? In the 100-150 a night range. I am talking close to nightlife even add the hotel bar for a nightcap? Thanks.
I have heard nothing but good things about Homewood Suites.

I'm thinking you could get some good rates at the Marriott. Because they built the new JW I would assume that some of their business has been diverted and their other hotel has dropped prices a little. It might come down to the gift of gab though... I would call. Online room rates can be good if you don't know the area, but if you call and talk to someone, and you have personal knowledge of what to expect in the area, I have found that you can get some really good deals.

it's worth a shot.

Good read from the Overhead Wire today on commuter rail systems in smallerish towns like ours. Even references the NE Corridor locally and why it sucks. I agree 100% with this blog.

http://theoverheadwire.blogspot.com/2011/04/no-more-commuter-rail-starts.html

In other news, stopped and snapped a few pics of The Trailside last night
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5143/5621203155_760d1b02f7.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5028/5621204897_000e4a7ae8.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5262/5621197643_dc6133e751.jpg

Got another question. What nice hotel downtown would anyone prefer in downtown? In the 100-150 a night range. I am talking close to nightlife even add the hotel bar for a nightcap? Thanks.


Priceline is your friend - you can get anyone of the hotels downtown for your price on there.

from http://www.datapointed.net
(http://www.datapointed.net/2011/04/maps-us-population-change-2000-2010-census/)
In the first post, you must click 'more maps' at the bottom to find Indianapolis. I find the midwest map most fascinating.

In urban areas, deep blue indicates that the population doubled (or more), pure red means that everyone left, grey denotes no change, and the intermediate tones represent the spectrum of increases and decreases in-between.

Also of note, the blue cropping up downtown & near north.

Clearly visible: Park 100, Eagle Creek Park & Reservoir, IND & Geist Reservoir.
...so, there's supposed to be an image here but it looks as if it doesn't want to play nice.

http://www.datapointed.net/media/2011/04/indianapolis.jpg

Good read from the Overhead Wire today on commuter rail systems in smallerish towns like ours. Even references the NE Corridor locally and why it sucks. I agree 100% with this blog.

http://theoverheadwire.blogspot.com/2011/04/no-more-commuter-rail-starts.html

In other news, stopped and snapped a few pics of The Trailside last night
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5143/5621203155_760d1b02f7.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5028/5621204897_000e4a7ae8.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5262/5621197643_dc6133e751.jpg

The Northeast Corridor won't have to compete with Freight on the Nickel Plate. You can't expect huge ridership numbers from the get go... The fact that those systems are meeting or exceeding ridership projections is a good thing. The fact that you can get a system started for a fraction of the cost of an EMU system is also a good thing. Its not an either or. You can always electrify the lines later and/or add a street running system as well.

The Northeast Corridor won't have to compete with Freight on the Nickel Plate. You can't expect huge ridership numbers from the get go... The fact that those systems are meeting or exceeding ridership projections is a good thing. The fact that you can get a system started for a fraction of the cost of an ERT system is also a good thing. Its not an either or. You can always electrify the lines later and/or add a street running system as well.

But will NE corridor commuter trains avoid freight traffic on the CSX line coming into downtown?

Priceline is your friend - you can get anyone of the hotels downtown for your price on there.

Cool, thanks for the help that you all have given me..

This is interesting

IBJ: Renovating the Pepsi Coliseum (http://www.ibj.com/fairgrounds-officials-consider-pepsi-coliseum-overhaul/PARAMS/article/26572)

The Northeast Corridor won't have to compete with Freight on the Nickel Plate. You can't expect huge ridership numbers from the get go... The fact that those systems are meeting or exceeding ridership projections is a good thing. The fact that you can get a system started for a fraction of the cost of an ERT system is also a good thing. Its not an either or. You can always electrify the lines later and/or add a street running system as well.

All those light rail systems that are listed in that link had exponentially higher ridership numbers in comparable time frames. Sure, they are more expensive but when you quantify the success in VMT removed, trips not taken by car, C02 not pumped into the air, which one is REALLY saving more?

But will NE corridor commuter trains avoid freight traffic on the CSX line coming into downtown?

Idyllic, I believe there is enough ROW to build additional lines downtown to avoid CSX completely.

I agree with you on that account. Disregarding that geographic constraint though, do you really think that the ROI will justify it being the first and as officials tout it, "the corridor with the potentially highest ridership"?

Also of note,

1010 Central
http://www.indystar.com/article/20110418/LOCAL18/104180338/Apartment-units-built-others-replace-warehouse?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|s

New Wishard poking up out of the ground pretty good now

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5067/5630694459_e6233f3ccc.jpg

Honestly... what is wrong with City Market management that they're pissing off their longest standing tenants? it's just a small average pizza stand... how hard is it to make fair arrangements for them? I don't know the whole story of course, but come on... how hard is it to throw around a few bucks to keep the tenants happy and keep the negative press away?

http://www.ibj.com/longtime-city-market-tenant-disputing-move/PARAMS/article/26616

Longtime City Market tenant fighting move

A longtime Indianapolis City Market tenant is refusing to vacate its space in the historic building and is suing to stop construction to convert the east wing into a bicycle hub.

Enzo Pizza Inc. filed suit April 12 against Indianapolis City Market Corp. after the market's lawyer notified owner Vincenzo Verderame that contractors would begin moving the restaurant to its new location on April 2.

But Enzo claims in its “wrongful eviction” complaint that City Market verbally agreed not to “forcibly” move the eatery to another space in the main building until its lease could be amended.

Enzo, which has operated at City Market since 1992, said it wants an agreement specifying who would pay for the relocation and for any damages to equipment or property that might occur during the move.

The new space City Market has designated for the restaurant is near the west entrance of the main building.

But, according to the complaint filed in Marion Superior Court, the space is 20 square feet smaller than Enzo’s current location. Enzo further complained that City Market never provided architectural or construction plans for the space.

"I think if someone is asked to open a business in a new location, I think they have the right to decide if they’ll get as good [a location] as what they have," Enzo lawyer Lesa Duvall said.

Enzo, a family-owned Indianapolis-based chain with seven locations, is seeking lost profit related to loss of business suffered during the the renovation. It charges in its lawsuit that City Market refuses to let the pizza joint remove barriers near its space, which have blocked access to its salad bar.

City Market attorney Bryce Bennett said some of Enzo's demands are unreasonable, if not impossible, to meet. At this point, he said, it would be impossible to stop construction of the bicycle hub.

"Any demand to renegotiate a lease is unreasonable," he said. "All we're trying to do is to relocate them to what we think is a better location in the main hall."

Construction began nearly two months ago, and Enzo is the only tenant left in the wing, City Market Executive Director Jim Reilly said.

“It’s got to be resolved very soon,” Reilly said of the court dispute. “It’s causing problems for the entire project.”

The $800,000 renovation to convert the wing into a bicycle hub is part of a larger, $3.4 million project to upgrade the main hall with new lighting, rest rooms and vendor stands.

Both the main-hall and east-wing projects are on track to be completed by late June.

The city also is continuing to look for additional funds to pay for the $500,000 demolition of the market’s west wing, a project that was delayed to compensate for the main-hall bids coming in over budget. Until money is found for that project, it’s unclear when the demolition will take place.

Meanwhile, City Market’s dispute with Enzo Pizza is not its first with a tenant unhappy with a move brought about by the renovation.

In December, City Market operators reached a deal with Grecian Garden for another space on the first floor of the main building different from what Grecian Garden said it originally was promised.

I agree. Doesnt seem like it should be difficult. I dont see what is unreasonable about communicating with the tennant about where they are moving and making sure that their overhead doesnt get damaged. That is totally reasonable.

Idyllic, I believe there is enough ROW to build additional lines downtown to avoid CSX completely.

You might be right, but I don't think there's any additional space where the CSX tracks travel under the Interstate, unless eastbound Ohio Street were to be relocated. I always assumed they would share the tracks where the Monon meets the CSX line, unless the CSX traffic were re-routed, but maybe I've been misinformed.

ITs splitting hairs, but there is enough space to get another track squeezed n there. It would probably take some creatinve embankment over 10th street and along the 65/70 split to make it happen, but Ive seen it in other areas with similar constraints

Honestly... what is wrong with City Market management that they're pissing off their longest standing tenants? it's just a small average pizza stand... how hard is it to make fair arrangements for them? I don't know the whole story of course, but come on... how hard is it to throw around a few bucks to keep the tenants happy and keep the negative press away?
The Market may not be doing a great job communicating with its tenants, but it's hard to conclude that the Market is in the wrong without knowing what is in the written lease. Does the Market have the right to move tenants without their consent? Is the Market obligated to provide architectural specs? I have no idea, and the IBJ, which usually does a good job (particularly compared to the Star) reporting on legal matters doesn't provide much insight. Also, I presume that Enzo has obtained a restraining order or an injunction preventing the move, but that's not clear from the IBJ article. I'm guessing that if the lease supported Enzo, then Enzo wouldn't be asking for a renegotiation. I agree that being on solid ground from a contractual perspective does not excuse poor PR or communication, but I also don't think the Market should be throwing around tax dollars to smooth things over if the suit is without merit. That sends a message to other tenants, and not a good one for the Market's finances.

The Market may not be doing a great job communicating with its tenants, but it's hard to conclude that the Market is in the wrong without knowing what is in the written lease. Does the Market have the right to move tenants without their consent? Is the Market obligated to provide architectural specs? I have no idea, and the IBJ, which usually does a good job (particularly compared to the Star) reporting on legal matters doesn't provide much insight. Also, I presume that Enzo has obtained a restraining order or an injunction preventing the move, but that's not clear from the IBJ article. I'm guessing that if the lease supported Enzo, then Enzo wouldn't be asking for a renegotiation. I agree that being on solid ground from a contractual perspective does not excuse poor PR or communication, but I also don't think the Market should be throwing around tax dollars to smooth things over if the suit is without merit. That sends a message to other tenants, and not a good one for the Market's finances.

I dunno who's wrong or right here. It's kinda beside the point. Speaking as a landlord and a manager of properties that rent to retail, it's good policy to bend over backwards to keep good tenants happy. Doing so sends a clear message to all tenants, good and bad.

But, I suppose that's the difference between public and private. Maybe the lesson here is don't rent from the government if you can avoid it.

I think Enzo is being short sighted. If they work with their LL to make the place better they will get more business in the long run. All we can do is speculate though... I know that if I owned a business in CM I would do whatever I could to help my LL create a successful market place.

You might be right, but I don't think there's any additional space where the CSX tracks travel under the Interstate, unless eastbound Ohio Street were to be relocated. I always assumed they would share the tracks where the Monon meets the CSX line, unless the CSX traffic were re-routed, but maybe I've been misinformed.

Like Idyllic, I know I've read that "someone" is trying to advance a plan where the CSX trains go around downtown on the Belt Line RR.

There have been studies that looked at rerouting freight to the belt that goes around the east and southside of downtown. This would take a lot of money to rebuild it, but save a lot of time and free up the downtown rail real estate to make this a no brainer.

I think it is some years off though.

I think Enzo is being short sighted. If they work with their LL to make the place better they will get more business in the long run. All we can do is speculate though... I know that if I owned a business in CM I would do whatever I could to help my LL create a successful market place.

The build-out (paid by ICM) for their new spot in the main hall looks to be 50%+ finished and will provide them with WAY more traffic than before. I can't imagine wanting to stay in one of the wings.. I would sacrifice 20 sq ft over increased traffic in a heartbeat.

I was in Chicago last night, and promised myself I was not going to gauk, and compare in anyway the buildings. However some of that newer architecture and the materials used just seems so right. Whether the new Trump or one a few block southeast, well one can only dream something close may occur in Indy. I did notice a billboard going out of the city talking of high Illinois taxes and the solution some Indiana website. Regardless of my being blown away, I still believe Indianapolis is going in a better direction than it was 10 or 15 years ago, with progress.

There have been studies that looked at rerouting freight to the belt that goes around the east and southside of downtown. This would take a lot of money to rebuild it, but save a lot of time and free up the downtown rail real estate to make this a no brainer.

I think it is some years off though.

I think the freight re-route to the Belt Line would be huge for inner-city neighborhoods. All of these streets have at-grade crossings that would no longer need to carry through traffic. Many of the crossings could be removed, while a few might need to remain for local loading / unloading. When I moved to Indy, I was surprised by how many at-grade crossings with frequent freight trains existed so close to downtown, especially at the arterial streets like New York & Michigan.

St. Clair Street, Michigan Street, New York Street, Shelby Street, Southeastern Avenue, English Avenue, Fletcher Ave, Keystone Ave, Terrace Ave, Orange St, Harding St, Belmont Ave.

The belt does go through Inner city neighborhoods. What about the negative impact on those neighborhoods near the belt that would suddently see freight traffic rise dramatically. Neighborhoods just south of the Bates-Hendricks area and Fountain Square, and west of Irvington, for example.

That is a legitimate question to pose. Im sure you know a little more about this project than the rest of us do GP. I suppose the turning point for an argument will be national security concerns for downtown events as Indy adds more of them via convention, sporting, etc and a route on the belt would trump the through route. Still going to be SOME freight that has to get downtown to feed the steam plant. Figuring that out could be the toughest part of the whole deal.

They should be finishing putting up the tower crane on 16th and 65 for the Methodist Neurosciences hub. I saw it on my way home last night, but couldn't snap any pics.

Snapped this last night. Georgia Street project moving along

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5263/5637166049_58366c815f.jpg

Cailes: I think your posts about the belt are all very accurate and the issues surrounding moving freight and pasengers on the various corridors are continuing to be discussed and are moving forward. My comment about neighborhoods near the belt doesn't really change any of what is being discussed - it is just another aspect of the whole process that must be taken into consideration.

Thanks for the ongoing pics of the Georgia St. corridor. Can't wait to see that project completed. I think one of the first big opportunities for it to be open with big crowds will be for the Big Ten Football Championship. That'll be quite an event in early December - and should bring at least 50,000 - 60,000 visitors into downtown.

The belt does go through Inner city neighborhoods. What about the negative impact on those neighborhoods near the belt that would suddently see freight traffic rise dramatically. Neighborhoods just south of the Bates-Hendricks area and Fountain Square, and west of Irvington, for example.

The biggest issue would be grade crossings. The only major traffic issue would be blocking Sherman, Massachusetts, and 21st all at once. There is one more grade crossing at 16th, then no more until the line turns west south of Prospect.

These are the big issue because trains blow their "whistles" (horns). The noise and vibration are limited to the immediate vicinity of the tracks, and the Belt runs through industrial-commercial areas. Very few houses are actually adjacent to the track.

As a resident of one of those eastside neighborhoods, I wouldn't have any issues. Michigan, New York, Washington, English, and 10th all go under the tracks.

In the Garfield Park area, there appear (from aerials) to be grade crossings only at State and East.

Since the second track would need to be put back in, I imagine that some re-grading could take place to create grade separation at all the crossings except 21st & Sherman. I'm not sure if an underpass could be created there; if not, maybe a bridge like the one at 30th/Emerson/Massachusetts.

If memory serves, the 2004 report talked of the expense of putting bridges over as many major streets as possible with only a small number of secondary streets remaining at grade. Not only would it be in the best interest of people moving around, but provides less headache for potential safety issues with freight operators.

Hilarious. Tea Party asking for a waiver from the city. As if we needed another reason to question Tea Party credibility

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2011/04/19/free-parking-for-tea-party/PARAMS/post/26640

The biggest issue would be grade crossings. The only major traffic issue would be blocking Sherman, Massachusetts, and 21st all at once. There is one more grade crossing at 16th, then no more until the line turns west south of Prospect.

These are the big issue because trains blow their "whistles" (horns). The noise and vibration are limited to the immediate vicinity of the tracks, and the Belt runs through industrial-commercial areas. Very few houses are actually adjacent to the track.

As a resident of one of those eastside neighborhoods, I wouldn't have any issues. Michigan, New York, Washington, English, and 10th all go under the tracks.

In the Garfield Park area, there appear (from aerials) to be grade crossings only at State and East.

Since the second track would need to be put back in, I imagine that some re-grading could take place to create grade separation at all the crossings except 21st & Sherman. I'm not sure if an underpass could be created there; if not, maybe a bridge like the one at 30th/Emerson/Massachusetts.

I wouldn't want to discount the impact on those neighborhoods. I didn't mention that before, but was thinking that there are a lot less at-grade crossings on the Belt Line route, which is one of the reasons I think it would be a net gain for the City.

Hilarious. Tea Party asking for a waiver from the city. As if we needed another reason to question Tea Party credibility

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2011/04/19/free-parking-for-tea-party/PARAMS/post/26640

meh..

I think the freight re-route to the Belt Line would be huge for inner-city neighborhoods. All of these streets have at-grade crossings that would no longer need to carry through traffic. Many of the crossings could be removed, while a few might need to remain for local loading / unloading. When I moved to Indy, I was surprised by how many at-grade crossings with frequent freight trains existed so close to downtown, especially at the arterial streets like New York & Michigan.

St. Clair Street, Michigan Street, New York Street, Shelby Street, Southeastern Avenue, English Avenue, Fletcher Ave, Keystone Ave, Terrace Ave, Orange St, Harding St, Belmont Ave.

I believe most of the Belt line is elevated... It passes above New York, Michigan, Washington, and 10th on the east side.

They are non-profit and non-profits can apply for waivers. Like them or not, they are just working the system like everyone else.

Not denying that. It's their core beliefs that the system is flawed, so why contribute to the problem? It's hypocritical

Not denying that. It's their core beliefs that the system is flawed, so why contribute to the problem? It's hypocritical
^^ +1

Please shelve the political discussions as I have learned to do over the past couple of years. This is after all, A DEVELOPMENT forum. Property Lines is also a development blog but cory has forgotten the purpose of his writings. IBJ needs to redirect him. Someone else mentioned that he was way off topic in the comments section and he skirted their comment - he talks about food and politics far more than development these days. He has temporarily lost credibility in my eyes because his eye is no longer on development. I now frequent UrbanIndy or try to do research on my own. That blog is much more informative.

Uh, this is a direct result of parking policy which is a HUGE development issue.

Please shelve the political discussions as I have learned to do over the past couple of years. This is after all, A DEVELOPMENT forum. Property Lines is also a development blog but cory has forgotten the purpose of his writings. IBJ needs to redirect him. Someone else mentioned that he was way off topic in the comments section and he skirted their comment - he talks about food and politics far more than development these days. He has temporarily lost credibility in my eyes because his eye is no longer on development. I now frequent UrbanIndy or try to do research on my own. That blog is much more informative.

Cory Schouten from IBJ offered a very appropriate and humble response to the detractor commenting on his blog. He's one of Indianapolis top journalists. He researches and writes quality news articles for IBJ -- the blog post are just to drum up on-line traffic... I hope he stays in the Indianapolis market for his career.

I think we need to stay on the topics of development. If we bleed one small development to death over talking of some political issue, then fine. If the political issue involves a development, then please look at the issue carefully please.

I've heard a few more things about the proposed office project on the triangular block between W. Vermont, N. Capitol and Indiana Avenue. The building is proposed to be built with a slight bend as it will be right next to and will bend around the Bourbon Street Distillery. It will front both Indiana Avenue and W. Vermont Street. It is only two stories - but it is supposed to be 40 feet tall - so it will be pretty similar in height - if not taller than the apartments across Indiana Avenue - and taller than either of the other two buildings currently on the block. (Thinking about it though --- that picture I remember seeing sure didn't look like it would be a forty foot tall building. Maybe that was an earlier rendering.) The parking is to be to the east of the building. I'm not thrilled with the plan -- but, at least now I have a better understanding of the layout. Maybe the next project to go on the block will fill in the remaining surface lots and will include parking that can be used by the new office as well. Just dreaming at this point, I guess.

Honestly... what is wrong with City Market management that they're pissing off their longest standing tenants? it's just a small average pizza stand... how hard is it to make fair arrangements for them? I don't know the whole story of course, but come on... how hard is it to throw around a few bucks to keep the tenants happy and keep the negative press away?

http://www.ibj.com/longtime-city-market-tenant-disputing-move/PARAMS/article/26616

Longtime City Market tenant fighting move

A longtime Indianapolis City Market tenant is refusing to vacate its space in the historic building and is suing to stop construction to convert the east wing into a bicycle hub.

Enzo Pizza Inc. filed suit April 12 against Indianapolis City Market Corp. after the market's lawyer notified owner Vincenzo Verderame that contractors would begin moving the restaurant to its new location on April 2.

But Enzo claims in its “wrongful eviction” complaint that City Market verbally agreed not to “forcibly” move the eatery to another space in the main building until its lease could be amended.

Enzo, which has operated at City Market since 1992, said it wants an agreement specifying who would pay for the relocation and for any damages to equipment or property that might occur during the move.

The new space City Market has designated for the restaurant is near the west entrance of the main building.

But, according to the complaint filed in Marion Superior Court, the space is 20 square feet smaller than Enzo’s current location. Enzo further complained that City Market never provided architectural or construction plans for the space.

"I think if someone is asked to open a business in a new location, I think they have the right to decide if they’ll get as good [a location] as what they have," Enzo lawyer Lesa Duvall said.

Enzo, a family-owned Indianapolis-based chain with seven locations, is seeking lost profit related to loss of business suffered during the the renovation. It charges in its lawsuit that City Market refuses to let the pizza joint remove barriers near its space, which have blocked access to its salad bar.

City Market attorney Bryce Bennett said some of Enzo's demands are unreasonable, if not impossible, to meet. At this point, he said, it would be impossible to stop construction of the bicycle hub.

"Any demand to renegotiate a lease is unreasonable," he said. "All we're trying to do is to relocate them to what we think is a better location in the main hall."

Construction began nearly two months ago, and Enzo is the only tenant left in the wing, City Market Executive Director Jim Reilly said.

“It’s got to be resolved very soon,” Reilly said of the court dispute. “It’s causing problems for the entire project.”

The $800,000 renovation to convert the wing into a bicycle hub is part of a larger, $3.4 million project to upgrade the main hall with new lighting, rest rooms and vendor stands.

Both the main-hall and east-wing projects are on track to be completed by late June.

The city also is continuing to look for additional funds to pay for the $500,000 demolition of the market’s west wing, a project that was delayed to compensate for the main-hall bids coming in over budget. Until money is found for that project, it’s unclear when the demolition will take place.

Meanwhile, City Market’s dispute with Enzo Pizza is not its first with a tenant unhappy with a move brought about by the renovation.

In December, City Market operators reached a deal with Grecian Garden for another space on the first floor of the main building different from what Grecian Garden said it originally was promised.

on the one hand they should deal with them and keep the happy. it would be the best thing to do.

on the other hand, how hard is to find a mediocre mall pizza place? i mean, there is already one right across the street on delaware...

I think we need to stay on the topics of development. If we bleed one small development to death over talking of some political issue, then fine. If the political issue involves a development, then please look at the issue carefully please.

People will post about what they want, and you have to have some tolerance for it. You are always free not to read a post, and unless someone is taking up a lot of space going on about a particular issue, it is best to just let it be. Moreover, this particular issue is related to development since it impacts parking policy, a much discussed subject on this message board.

Also, I hate (not really :) ) to infer other's motives, but I suspect you don't really care about the poster going off on a tangent, you simply don't like the content of what the person is posting.

I read technically off-topic posts all the time on this message board, but rarely do I see admonishments from others about a poster going "off-topic," unless the post is about a controversial issue which hits another person's nerve.

If you simply want to read a run-down about current development projects, you can create your own thread about that. I think most people want a richer discussion on this thread than simply, "Hey, on the corner of X and Y, they just started digging the foundation for a new 3-story apartment building." That's just plain boring. A real discussion thread about development is going to involve discussions about a variety of subjects, including public policy, politics, and sociology, among others.

I found the table below in a recent story in the Louisville Courier-Journal. The story was about Louisville's downtown employment and housing numbers - and how they compare with other "peer" cities. I was impressed with Indy's strong lead in the category of downtown employment compared to the other cities - including larger metros like Cincinnati, Kansas City and Charlotte. One thing that really jumped out at me was how small Charlotte's downtown employment numbers were.

I know these types of downtown statistics are always difficult to compare - because one city's definition of its downtown might be very different from how another city defines its downtown. Indy's numbers seem quite high -- but when you start adding up all of the hospital and IUPUI numbers on the near west side (medical staff plus all others such as cleaning people, security, administrative / secretarial, etc. -- there are at least 45,000 over there -- plus you add the Methodist complex at 16th St and the medical administration / research complex at the north end of the canal and you're probably up to around 55,000. Core downtown CBD adds another 60,000 at least with all of the major office towers, the City, State and Federal complexes along with the hotel, retail and restaurant employment. The near SE side with the Wellpoint, Lilly, Farm Bureau triumverate adds another 15,000 (soon to be 18,000 with Rolls Royce). That's 130,000 right there - and I'm sure there are another 8000 in a few other areas (SW Museum and WRSP / NCAA quadrant as well as the NE / Mass Ave quadrant and some other areas dispersed throughout downtown.


Indy was one of only three cities to see their downtown employment numbers raise during the analysis period. Louisville rose by 11.8%, Indianapolis rose by 5.9% and Omaha rose by about .1%. Considering the large number of downtown employees in Indianapolis - the steady growth from a much higher base is all the more impressive.

Here's the table:

HOW THEY STACK UP

City downtown workers 2009 Percent change 2002-2009
Birmingham 66,590 -14.0%
Charlotte 43,055 -10.3%
Cincinnati 73,444 -9.4%
Columbus 92,445 -23.8%
Dayton 26,250 -26.1%
Greensboro 30,758 -2.7%
Indianapolis 138,039 5.9%
Jacksonville 26,950 -28.0%
Kansas City 75,658 -12.0%
Louisville 68,539 11.8%
Memphis 48,354 -20.0%
Nashville 100,141 -12.3%
Omaha 29,643 0.8%
Raleigh 41,501 -21.7%
Richmond 80,724 -9.4%
Source: Downtown Development Corp.

Here's a link to the article:

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011304200131

I'd like to find a copy of the actual study - to see some of the other information in it that didn't make the article -- such as the downtown population estimates and the average household incomes for the various downtown areas.

One interesting thing I just noticed is that the top four cities in the number of downtown employees are all State Capitols. Hmmmmm ..... simple coincidence? probably not.

I found the table below in a recent story in the Louisville Courier-Journal. The story was about Louisville's downtown employment and housing numbers - and how they compare with other "peer" cities. I was impressed with Indy's strong lead in the category of downtown employment compared to the other cities - including larger metros like Cincinnati, Kansas City and Charlotte.

HOW THEY STACK UP

City downtown workers 2009 Percent change 2002-2009
Birmingham 66,590 -14.0%
Charlotte 43,055 -10.3%
Cincinnati 73,444 -9.4%
Columbus 92,445 -23.8%
Dayton 26,250 -26.1%
Greensboro 30,758 -2.7%
Indianapolis 138,039 5.9%
Jacksonville 26,950 -28.0%
Kansas City 75,658 -12.0%
Louisville 68,539 11.8%
Memphis 48,354 -20.0%
Nashville 100,141 -12.3%
Omaha 29,643 0.8%
Raleigh 41,501 -21.7%
Richmond 80,724 -9.4%
Source: Downtown Development Corp.

Here's a link to the article:

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011304200131

I'd like to find a copy of the actual study - to see some of the other information in it that didn't make the article -- such as the downtown population estimates and the average household incomes for the various downtown areas.

One interesting thing I just noticed is that the top four cities in the number of downtown employees are all State Capitols. Hmmmmm ..... simple coincidence? probably not.

Note that since Louisville is smaller and southern, its list of "peer cities" doesn't include all of Indy's peers. I'm surprised LVL included Indy peers Omaha, KC, and Charlotte but not Des Moines and Madison, both of which are as close in distance and size as those other three.

And for jobs downtown, it's no real surprise that state capitals lead. The Urbanophile has noted this many times: the faster-growing metros in the Midwest are the capitals.

State government is highly centralized, usually the equivalent of a large corporate or university campus. Several capitals have The Big State U. Plus the capital city attracts the rent-seekers (lobbyists), lawyers (the state and federal court systems are usually centered on capitals) and state associations for everything from A to Z. (The two exceptions to these "rules of attraction" among states in the middle of the country seem to be Kentucky and Illinois.)

^^ and Michigan and Missouri. E. Lansing isn't too big - and really hasn't been growing too impressively lately. I don't know much about Jefferson City - but I'm pretty sure its not too big. It might be growing at a decent clip but, since its not too big of a player - I don't think it counts as a big follower of the "rules of attraction" for capitols as listed above. The larger capitol cities in the Midwest that I believe follow the attraction rules are Indianapolis, Columbus, St.Paul / (w-Minneapolis), Des Moines and Madison.

There is an article in the IBJ property section on the former Essex site on the NE corner of vermont and penn. It is a premium content article, so if anyone is a member could you let me in on the gist of the article? Any prospective movement on that surface lot? (Sorry IBJ/Cory, I am not trying to steal your content. I wish there were a by the article/week/month subscription option on IBJ.com.)

I took a break from studying the other day and sat across the street from that lot and daydreamed about what I would put there if I could. University Park, Veterans Plaza, and the American Legion Mall are really underused right now and are going to be a great centerpiece in our city in the future. I am picturing taller (5-20 story) residential w/ street level retail completely surrounding the green space in the future. Something reminiscent of Bryant Park in NY. Library on one side, great gathering space in the park, a little green space in a denser city. (I am not making an argument that we have the density right now to make this a "happening" place, but sometime in the future we will...)

I wouldn't want to compare it to a smaller NY central park because it is so small and we have enough larger parks surrounding the city to satisfy the full blown nature fix. Just a green central plaza where a denser downtown population could have movies in the park, smaller events, and place to be outside. More like a communal back yard.

Thinking in the long term, on the west side of the park there are quite a few buildings that have zero historical significance and really don't utilize the park at all. They will be ripe for redevelopment at some point. Whatever buildings end up around the park in the future need to be well thought out. It is too nice of a space to waste on endless single entry street level office space.

People will post about what they want, and you have to have some tolerance for it. You are always free not to read a post, and unless someone is taking up a lot of space going on about a particular issue, it is best to just let it be. Moreover, this particular issue is related to development since it impacts parking policy, a much discussed subject on this message board.

Also, I hate (not really :) ) to infer other's motives, but I suspect you don't really care about the poster going off on a tangent, you simply don't like the content of what the person is posting.

I read technically off-topic posts all the time on this message board, but rarely do I see admonishments from others about a poster going "off-topic," unless the post is about a controversial issue which hits another person's nerve.

If you simply want to read a run-down about current development projects, you can create your own thread about that. I think most people want a richer discussion on this thread than simply, "Hey, on the corner of X and Y, they just started digging the foundation for a new 3-story apartment building." That's just plain boring. A real discussion thread about development is going to involve discussions about a variety of subjects, including public policy, politics, and sociology, among others.

Personally, I could care less what you think. Your rant does not affect me personally, so let's stick to what the site is about. Time now for a beer!

If there is anything worse than partisan politics, its this. Political opinion will be inherent with most topics on this forum, but it doesn't need to degrade to whatever this is.

If you have a point to make about politics make it, but be respectful to the responses you get in exchange. If you see a post with which you do not agree, respond intelligently and tactfully. No one should have to be reminded of this here.

Please move on and stop feeding what has deteriorated into a juvenile exchange.

Personally, I could care less what you think. Your rant does not affect me personally, so let's stick to what the site is about. Time now for a beer!

IndyYeah, I didn't rant at you. I simply told you to not worry about posters supposedly going off topic, and I think I did so in a polite fashion. I guess you are a bit touchy, so perhaps you do need that beer. Also, I didn't ask if you cared or not for my opinion, so if you truly didn't care about my opinion (and your response seems to belie your assertion), then you needn't have wasted time responding.

That said, my point was that people will discuss politics, and a variety of subjects on this thread which go beyond just listing development projects, and others just need to accept it, and move on. That's it, quite simple.

Hilarious. Tea Party asking for a waiver from the city. As if we needed another reason to question Tea Party credibility

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2011/04/19/free-parking-for-tea-party/PARAMS/post/26640

Anti-government group wants hand out from the government. oy.

(Sorry IBJ/Cory, I am not trying to steal your content. I wish there were a by the article/week/month subscription option on IBJ.com.)

I'm pretty sure you can buy single issues of IBJ in various downtown locations. The "locked" online stories are all available in the print version.

The Waverly expansion on S. East Street is up to its third level now. Also - the apartment project along 10th - just east of Indiana Avenue is also starting on its third level.

I think we're beginning to see real signs of Indianapolis housing market recovery. Average housing prices have taken a serious jump in the past couple weeks while demand has stabilized or risen and inventory is dropping. It's all very encouraging. Below is a neat chart that shows some interesting activity.

This is the time of the month that previous months numbers are reported.. they haven't been yet. Not sure how good March numbers will be, but I have high hopes for April on.

Keep in mind that at this time last year there was the $8000 first time buyers credit that artificially buoyed the market for awhile. We're at about that level of activity without the credit now.

http://dreamhomecompany.com/blog/2010/09/19/strength-of-indianapolis-housing-market-in-a-chart/

I'm pretty sure you can buy single issues of IBJ in various downtown locations. The "locked" online stories are all available in the print version.

Thanks, I didn't realize that ALL of the locked articles are in the print edition. I'll go find a copy.

Thanks, I didn't realize that ALL of the locked articles are in the print edition. I'll go find a copy.

"The law does not concern itself with trifles" (yes, I can use google) I'm curious, what are you referring to?

"The law does not concern itself with trifles" (yes, I can use google) I'm curious, what are you referring to?

Just a ramdom legal maxim... Generally the law should not be expected to take care of trivial interactions. Nothing specific in mind, just random blatherings of a law student.

I watched on Saturday as City Market workers moved all of Enzo's stuff into the parking lot. They had a big moving truck, but they weren't putting anything in it. Today, Enzo is in their new location... or rather their stuff is... They aren't open and their stuff isn't installed, just moved. pic below.

I wonder what kind of drama went into this new developement..

http://sidelineparking.com/enzo.jpg

on the one hand they should deal with them and keep the happy. it would be the best thing to do.

on the other hand, how hard is to find a mediocre mall pizza place? i mean, there is already one right across the street on delaware...

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110424/LOCAL0101/104240376/1150/LOCAL0101/Architecture-expert-gives-his-take-Carmel-s-Palladium

Architect reviews the Palladium and architecture of development from the past 15 to 20 years. The tone is critical and likens the various developments to a "Disneyland" theme park trying to recreate a faux European city.

Architect reviews the Palladium and architecture of development from the past 15 to 20 years. The tone is critical and likens the various developments to a "Disneyland" theme park trying to recreate a faux European city.

Addendum: I find the architecture campy and believe modern designs that borrow (heavily if they wish) elements from the classics would have been more impresseive, BUT I am not a guy from Indianapolis with a piss-on-Carmel attitude. I am impressed with much of their initiative to build an urban environment in the old section of the city, and hope they continue with this scale as they replace/update the aging development from the '60s, '70s, and '80s.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110424/LOCAL0101/104240376/1150/LOCAL0101/Architecture-expert-gives-his-take-Carmel-s-Palladium

Architect reviews the Palladium and architecture of development from the past 15 to 20 years. The tone is critical and likens the various developments to a "Disneyland" theme park trying to recreate a faux European city.

I think that the critical tone is warranted. While the Palladium might be a great place, that weird disney land thing is ridiculous. It is a desperate attempt to bring culture to a suburb that has worshiped the generic strip mall for decades. The general culture of carmel lacks the drive for identity, which ironically has given it an identity to outsiders: Land of the sterile strip mall.

I commend the builder for attempting to "create" culture. But he failed in assuming that he could accomplish the generational character of a real city in one shot. He should have started with a single tasteful building. I guess they were thinking it is all about scale, not class.

I do appreciate the attempt at walkability and creating a good mix of residential and retail. More projects should pay as much attention as they did here, but just execute better. Maybe it will spark more development that isn't so hokey.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110424/LOCAL0101/104240376/1150/LOCAL0101/Architecture-expert-gives-his-take-Carmel-s-Palladium

Architect reviews the Palladium and architecture of development from the past 15 to 20 years. The tone is critical and likens the various developments to a "Disneyland" theme park trying to recreate a faux European city.

The reviewer actually commented very favorably on the exterior design of The Palladium.

He was critical of the interior and the fact that it takes an army of ushers to help people find their way. Wayfinding seems to be a weakness in Indy area public buildings lately; there was much criticism of LOS for the same weakness upon its opening.

The reviewer saved his harshest criticism for the "new town" aspect of Carmel's redevelopment (and especially the nearby Pedcor residential blocks) because they are not, and do not appear "organic", in the sense that their facades do not resemble anything that developed over time. Hence the "Disney" comment.

The reviewer actually commented very favorably on the exterior design of The Palladium.

He was critical of the interior and the fact that it takes an army of ushers to help people find their way. Wayfinding seems to be a weakness in Indy area public buildings lately; there was much criticism of LOS for the same weakness upon its opening.

The reviewer saved his harshest criticism for the "new town" aspect of Carmel's redevelopment (and especially the nearby Pedcor residential blocks) because they are not, and do not appear "organic", in the sense that their facades do not resemble anything that developed over time. Hence the "Disney" comment.

That's a good point CDC, the reviewer had nice things to say about the Palladium itself. In fact I think he was MOST critical of the cheesy apartment building that blocks the view of the Palladium on Center City Dr. and Rangeline Rd. He referred to it at "gargantuan" and says it looms over the neighborhood like "a cruise ship parked at a fishing dock." Hiliarious.

I personally like the scale of the Carmel Arts and Design District even if it lacks in any modern design.

My opinion of the City Center in a nutshell: anybody that builds a 6 to 10 story mixed-use complex with underground parking and ground floor retail in the suburbs can clad it in fake plastic vomit for all I care. That place is going to function very well and won't seem so silly in scale when it's all done.

^^ haha! Yeah, at least it will be functional.

My opinion of the City Center in a nutshell: anybody that builds a 6 to 10 story mixed-use complex with underground parking and ground floor retail in the suburbs can clad it in fake plastic vomit for all I care. That place is going to function very well and won't seem so silly in scale when it's all done.

Haha. Downtown Indy still suffers from proposals for 2 story office complexes proponents believe to be "better than nothing..." I would love to see this scale built around the CBD (the economic impact would be palpable) just without the cheesy style (which is a matter of my taste.)

I think we're beginning to see real signs of Indianapolis housing market recovery. Average housing prices have taken a serious jump in the past couple weeks while demand has stabilized or risen and inventory is dropping. It's all very encouraging. Below is a neat chart that shows some interesting activity.

This is the time of the month that previous months numbers are reported.. they haven't been yet. Not sure how good March numbers will be, but I have high hopes for April on.

Keep in mind that at this time last year there was the $8000 first time buyers credit that artificially buoyed the market for awhile. We're at about that level of activity without the credit now.

http://dreamhomecompany.com/blog/2010/09/19/strength-of-indianapolis-housing-market-in-a-chart/

Is there an explanation for the volatility of the Market Action Index? It seems to bounce up and down several points each week, which seems odd.

I don't always put a lot of stock in relatively small movements in the increase of the median sales price since it may simply reflect growth in the proportion of homes for sale in either a low price or high price bracket.

The City Center complex is a bit disney but really, its the only part of the redevelopment in Carmel that is. The arts district is great. Walkable. Friendly. Scaled accurately. The Paladium even though it could use some improved wayfinding, was designed with tremendous attention to detail in sound and material quality. Will it stand up over time? Who knows. When all the theaters are open and operating, Carmel will be able to bid on a number of top notch acts. That in itself will prove how much the effort was worth it.

There are plenty of people upset about how it looks. Justifiably so. Lots of people moved to Carmel for the upper scale conservative nature. Now there is this progressive republican acting a democrat and redeveloping the old town. I for one think he is doing great things to make a place that is modern and that provides an environment that will draw economic development for years.

Will be interesting to see how the land between the city center and Main street is developed as the years go by.

Is there an explanation for the volatility of the Market Action Index? It seems to bounce up and down several points each week, which seems odd.

I don't always put a lot of stock in relatively small movements in the increase of the median sales price since it may simply reflect growth in the proportion of homes for sale in either a low price or high price bracket.

MAI measures demand in that it weighs sales figures against inventory. Sales figures are reported daily, so a holiday or a weekend for example, can affect it quite a bit. I think that's the reason for the seeming volatility.

I hang out on Mibor religiously, and the sales prices of low value homes has consistently risen in the past couple months. That more than anything else has me excited. I think we'll see some real positive changes in the next 3 months.

Oh... for an MAI past 30... I think it's possible this year for Indy.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110424/LOCAL0101/104240376/1150/LOCAL0101/Architecture-expert-gives-his-take-Carmel-s-Palladium

Architect reviews the Palladium and architecture of development from the past 15 to 20 years. The tone is critical and likens the various developments to a "Disneyland" theme park trying to recreate a faux European city.


Huh?!

The concert hall itself is a decidedly mixed bag. On the positive side, it offers an unusual and rewarding sense of intimacy between audience and performers, and excellent sightlines from almost every seat. On the negative, the acoustics may be questionable. (The mousy qualifier "may be" is deployed here because this judgment is based on only one evening's acquaintance, the April 3 St. Petersburg Philharmonic Orchestra concert.)

While a solo piano is so vivid it's like a guided tour inside the instrument, a full orchestra's sound seems soupy; it's difficult to pluck the details out of the sonic texture. General principle: Halls without parallel or facing concave side walls are more likely to deliver great acoustics, regardless of the ministrations of talented engineers.


I thought this place was supposed to be nearly acoustically perfect.

If only we had a "Indianapolis Suburban Development News" thread where we could discuss this stuff exclusively! :)

I put this in the Cultural Trail thread, but I figured this also belonged over here on the main thread. Public art proposed (http://www.urbantimesonline.com/2011/04/this-just-in-public-art-project-to-brighten-cultural-trail-in-parking-garage/) for portion of Cultural Trail underneath parking garage on Virginia Avenue.

Looks very cool.

I put this in the Cultural Trail thread, but I figured this also belonged over here on the main thread. Public art proposed (http://www.urbantimesonline.com/2011/04/this-just-in-public-art-project-to-brighten-cultural-trail-in-parking-garage/) for portion of Cultural Trail underneath parking garage on Virginia Avenue.

Looks very cool.

Looks awesome. Wasn't something like this proposed for the Airport?

Looks awesome. Wasn't something like this proposed for the Airport?

Um, have you ever used the connector walkway from the parking garage to the terminal?

Um, have you ever used the connector walkway from the parking garage to the terminal?

Nope I haven't flown in years.. not since before the new terminal opened. Actually.. I don't think I've even been to the new terminal oddly enough... So they built it? Where can I find pics?

edit - found a few on the thread. Neat. What's the deal with the music?

Is this (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3148/2935643268_250b789db1_b.jpg) what you are talking about? Via the Urbanophile.

The Cultural Trail artwork looks quite different than this.

Is this (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3148/2935643268_250b789db1_b.jpg) what you are talking about? Via the Urbanophile.

The Cultural Trail artwork looks quite different than this.

While it looks quite different both are motion interactive lighting installations. I personally like the trail idea better than what is at the airport. I feel like I just hit the jackpot at a casino when I walk through the garage connector and lights go crazy.

Nope I haven't flown in years.. not since before the new terminal opened. Actually.. I don't think I've even been to the new terminal oddly enough... So they built it? Where can I find pics?

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuMlcX415d8) is some video of the airport light installation.

Here we go again... more suggestions about the circle (http://www.ibj.com/rethinking-monument-circle-in-indianapolis/PARAMS/article/26838).

Whatever does happen, I just hope that it doesn't involve ubiquitous music at the circle. I like the sounds of the city and would hate to have to listen to watered down easy listening programming while sitting on the steps of the monument. The sound of the city is music enough for me. If you want more bring some head phones and don't pollute the air with unescapable music programming.

The Indiana State Museum drives me nuts when I walk or run on the canal. The music they play is targeted to the 70+ generation and really kills the serenity. Music is so hard to pick and everyone has such different tastes. Hokey upbeat music is as offensive to me as gangster rap would be to the people who like the hokey upbeat crap. (not to say that I would at all want gangster rap on the circle) Classical all the time would be about the only thing I would be willing to tolerate, and I'm not so sure that would bring much energy.

Live music is a different story though, mainly because it would only be at specific planned times.


All of the other ideas about increasing store fronts, encouraging population growth, and making the fountains/monument more interactive sound great, it's just a matter of how they actually go about doing it.

Any thoughts about the prospect of mall music on the circle?

Here we go again... more suggestions about the circle (http://www.ibj.com/rethinking-monument-circle-in-indianapolis/PARAMS/article/26838).

The article from IBJ cited states: "To increase activity on the circle, he suggested investing in the area around it to create more residential space. This could include offering tax incentives to developers to adapt old buildings to affordable and appealing downtown living.
'Until the whole district gets more lively, with more people downtown at any hour of the day, this programming issue with the circle will persist,' he said."

BINGO. All downtown institutions failing to reach their potential can cite lack of residents within walking distance of the CBD as a primary etiology. These are the consequences of supporting/approving lazy developments like the low-density office proposed along Indiana Avenue. I believe the Illinois Building at Market and Illinois is vacant and would serve the monument as apartments for 40-100k incomes.

The article from IBJ cited states: "To increase activity on the circle, he suggested investing in the area around it to create more residential space. This could include offering tax incentives to developers to adapt old buildings to affordable and appealing downtown living.
'Until the whole district gets more lively, with more people downtown at any hour of the day, this programming issue with the circle will persist,' he said."

BINGO. All downtown institutions failing to reach their potential can cite lack of residents within walking distance of the CBD as a primary etiology. These are the consequences of supporting/approving lazy developments like the low-density office proposed along Indiana Avenue. I believe the Illinois Building at Market and Illinois is vacant and would serve the monument as apartments for 40-100k incomes.

What we need are a couple more (more attractive) Riley towers type projects in the mile square. Riley Towers usually has a vacancy rate of less than 10%.. ridiculously low. There is strong demand for low to mid range rentals for young people who'll treat downtown as a vibrant campus. We'd have a true 24 hour dowtown.

The old MSA site is a total no brainer for this. It's not like high priced condos were ever a good idea right next to the jail... I can think of a couple places near IUPUI as well.

What we need are a couple more (more attractive) Riley towers type projects in the mile square. Riley Towers usually has a vacancy rate of less than 10%.. ridiculously low. There is strong demand for low to mid range rentals for young people who'll treat downtown as a vibrant campus. We'd have a true 24 hour dowtown.

It took 30 years to fill those towers... hopefully new towers would fill faster under current conditions!

http://www.brookspublications.com/files/RILEYTOWERS.pdf Page 3 right column.

http://www.americanfitnessindex.org/quickview.htm

Not a good report for Central Indiana. Just one thought: Of course it would be difficult to quantify, but it would be nice for a report like this to include citizens' perceptions about the quality of their built environment. This might get at infrastructure conditions and deficiencies which, I think, probably have more to do with people's level of physical activity than many of the indicators in this report such as number of tennis courts and swimming pools.

http://www.americanfitnessindex.org/quickview.htm

Not a good report for Central Indiana. Just one thought: Of course it would be difficult to quantify, but it would be nice for a report like this to include citizens' perceptions about the quality of their built environment. This might get at infrastructure conditions and deficiencies which, I think, probably have more to do with people's level of physical activity than many of the indicators in this report such as number of tennis courts and swimming pools.

Your hypothesis (as well as the reporter's) seems to be that people in Central Indiana don't exercise for lack of infrastructure, whether it's parks, sidewalks, or whatever.

[rant on]

The overwhelming evidence would suggest that "the problem" is not "lack of infrastructure". It's "lack of desire". No one is force-feeding people, injecting them with heart-disease or diabetes-causing germs, nor chaining them to their recliners and car seats, nor requiring them to park next to the door everywhere they drive.

Anyone can drive to Eagle Creek Park, park the car, and take a hike or use the fitness trail. It's not quite free, but an annual pass is a lot cheaper than a health club. Other "regional" and area parks have fitness stations, and every larger IndyPark has walking trails and loops AND PARKING. Every "big box" or "lifestyle center" I've been to has some "far out" parking spaces where you can make a half-mile round trip just walking to and from the door.

My street doesn't have a sidewalk. I live just a half-mile from a park and from a Greenways Trail. I do not let two blocks of "no sidewalk" deter me from walking several miles three or four times a week.

Suburban cul-de-sac developments don't have busy streets, by their very nature. Folks can walk on a non-busy street in most developments without fear of being clipped by a car doing 45 mph. People can do laps around an apartment complex.

What I'm trying to say is, people who don't want to find a way to MOVE will make excuses: poor infrastructure, inconvenient, no time, etc. If we build it, they won't come. We have to convince one person at a time to do more physical activity, and that has nothing to do with the "fitness infrastructure".

[rant over]

Your hypothesis (as well as the reporter's) seems to be that people in Central Indiana don't exercise for lack of infrastructure, whether it's parks, sidewalks, or whatever.

[rant on]

The overwhelming evidence would suggest that "the problem" is not "lack of infrastructure". It's "lack of desire". No one is force-feeding people, injecting them with heart-disease or diabetes-causing germs, nor chaining them to their recliners and car seats, nor requiring them to park next to the door everywhere they drive.

Anyone can drive to Eagle Creek Park, park the car, and take a hike or use the fitness trail. It's not quite free, but an annual pass is a lot cheaper than a health club. Other "regional" and area parks have fitness stations, and every larger IndyPark has walking trails and loops AND PARKING. Every "big box" or "lifestyle center" I've been to has some "far out" parking spaces where you can make a half-mile round trip just walking to and from the door.

My street doesn't have a sidewalk. I live just a half-mile from a park and from a Greenways Trail. I do not let two blocks of "no sidewalk" deter me from walking several miles three or four times a week.

Suburban cul-de-sac developments don't have busy streets, by their very nature. Folks can walk on a non-busy street in most developments without fear of being clipped by a car doing 45 mph. People can do laps around an apartment complex.

What I'm trying to say is, people who don't want to find a way to MOVE will make excuses: poor infrastructure, inconvenient, no time, etc. If we build it, they won't come. We have to convince one person at a time to do more physical activity, and that has nothing to do with the "fitness infrastructure".

[rant over]

Funny that you mention big box store parking and exercise. I've often thought that one of the many damaging effects of big box stores is discouraging exercise. Even downtown, the neighborhood stores where one could walk a few blocks to the grocery, coffee shop etc. and get daily exercise are gone. Now we get in our car and drive a couple miles to do one stop shopping, then drive back to our cookie cutter house in a former corn field and plunk ourselves down in front of a tv.. Well, I don't, but most people around here do.

My point is that we don't necessarily need jogging trails tennis courts etc. to get good exercise. We need a return to decent urban planning which will encourage people to walk in their neighborhoods. regular daily exercise, even a little bit is key to good health. Walking around a bland suburban development isn't fun or exciting or necessary, and it's hard for most people to get motivated to do that.. and they won't.

Funny that you mention big box store parking and exercise. I've often thought that one of the many damaging effects of big box stores is discouraging exercise. Even downtown, the neighborhood stores where one could walk a few blocks to the grocery, coffee shop etc. and get daily exercise are gone. Now we get in our car and drive a couple miles to do one stop shopping, then drive back to our cookie cutter house in a former corn field and plunk ourselves down in front of a tv.. Well, I don't, but most people around here do.

My point is that we don't necessarily need jogging trails tennis courts etc. to get good exercise. We need a return to decent urban planning which will encourage people to walk in their neighborhoods. regular daily exercise, even a little bit is key to good health. Walking around a bland suburban development isn't fun or exciting or necessary, and it's hard for most people to get motivated to do that.. and they won't.

Agreed.

CDC guy, I'm not making excuses for people being unhealthy. But I also don't think it's just a coincidence that 98% of Central Indiana residents don't live in vibrant, interesting neighborhoods, and they also don't get much exercise. Sure, you can walk in your sidewalk-less neighborhood, but most people won't. If we want walking, biking, transit use, exercise, neighborly interaction, etc. to be part of culture, it's gotta be something that we design our neighborhoods to accommodate. You and I might choose to walk in areas where it isn't necessarily the safest or most enjoyable, but its evident that most people won't. The opposite is also true when you observe our few vibrant urban neighborhoods that exhibit some modicum of good pedestrian-oriented planning.

Ill tell you first hand that I live in a neighborhood too, with no sidewalks. In the South Broad Ripple area.

We have a 13 month old infant and for the most part, we do not get out and push him down the street. Sure, people walk down it, but the cars are the worst part. 35-45mph. Speeding between stop signs that are separated by 2 blocks. My wife literally gets in the car, drives to the monon trail and walks. That is nice, but we are obviously a more passionate family about Indy than most. Most, just get in, turn the key and drive 2 blocks to the store to avoid the same thing.

Point is, it is unsafe. Chris, you are a rare blend of defiance and engagement. You cannot expect everyone to follow your lead, no matter how well meaning you are.

you are a rare blend of defiance and engagement. You cannot expect everyone to follow your lead, no matter how well meaning you are.

LMAO. Possibly the best description ever.

I was not trying to be critical of people like you and your wife who make a judgment (i.e. not safe on the street). You don't use it as an excuse to do nothing! You can, and do, drive to a recreational facility. The lack of a sidewalk on your street does not stop you. You figure out a way to use what's available to you, and that is to be commended greatly. Although it's possible if there were a whole lot more people out walking right down the middle of the street, the cars wouldn't be going 35-45. That defiance thing again. :)

It has everything to do with mindset: nothing worth having comes easily.

Another restuarant opening on that oddly blighted block along Washington. The restaurant sounds great! Sadly nothing will immediately be done to the facade. I love how IBJ just took a pic from google maps street view and didn't even edit out the marker.

I always thought that Nia's Deli was a front for drugs or something... not really.. but I don't understand how it lasted so long. One just had to walk through the front door to realize it was gonna fail. Was it a lackluster Gyro shop? A woefully understocked convenience store? A hangout for college dropouts? I couldn't tell.

http://www.ibj.com/2011/05/02/pizzology-chef-plans-new-downtown-concept/PARAMS/post/26907

Pizzology chef plans new downtown concept

The popular local chef behind Carmel's Pizzology is outfitting the former home of Nia's Deli at 38 E. Washington St. for a new restaurant called The Libertine. Neal Brown says his new spot will serve "modern American tavern food", along with Prohibition-era cocktails, craft beer and wine. Menu offerings—including octopus terrine, pork rilettes, a porchetta sandwich, seared foie gras, and roasted beets—will be prepared in an exhibition kitchen at the end of a 25-person custom-designed bar.

Brown plans to bring in a couple of designers to look at the space, but he doesn't expect wholesale changes to the façade or the interior. He is leasing the entire building in a three-year deal with 25 years of options, but he was coy about plans for the second floor, which is accessible from a second front door (a speakeasy perhaps?). Drink offerings include: the Boot Strap, with W.H. Harrison Bourbon, amaro and sweet vermouth; the Dirty Little Whirlwind, with absinthe, Contreau, lemon bitters and orange oils; and Pimm's Cup, with Pimm's No. 1 liqueur, Cointreau, lime, mint and ginger ale.

Brown said he does not have a target opening date. He's optimistic about moving quickly, though, since many of his planned updates to the space will not require government permits. "I really have a lot of faith in that corridor of Washington Street," he said. "The upside is unignorable."

LMAO. Possibly the best description ever.

I was not trying to be critical of people like you and your wife who make a judgment (i.e. not safe on the street). You don't use it as an excuse to do nothing! You can, and do, drive to a recreational facility. The lack of a sidewalk on your street does not stop you. You figure out a way to use what's available to you, and that is to be commended greatly. Although it's possible if there were a whole lot more people out walking right down the middle of the street, the cars wouldn't be going 35-45. That defiance thing again. :)

It has everything to do with mindset: nothing worth having comes easily.

Yes, it has alot to do with mindset. I used to work in a near downtown office complex where there is a shuttle bus service driving FAT people from a parking lot just 1 to 2 blocks away to the front door of the office building.

So SAD and embarrassing.

I love how IBJ just took a pic from google maps street view and didn't even edit out the marker.

Especially since their offices are directly across the street...

http://www.ibj.com/2011/05/02/pizzology-chef-plans-new-downtown-concept/PARAMS/post/26907

Pizzology chef plans new downtown concept

The popular local chef behind Carmel's Pizzology is outfitting the former home of Nia's Deli at 38 E. Washington St. for a new restaurant called The Libertine. Neal Brown says his new spot will serve "modern American tavern food", along with Prohibition-era cocktails, craft beer and wine. Menu offerings—including octopus terrine, pork rilettes, a porchetta sandwich, seared foie gras, and roasted beets—will be prepared in an exhibition kitchen at the end of a 25-person custom-designed bar.



Tavern food? Doesn't sound like anything served in any taverns I've been in. I definitely won't be stopping in for any foie gras. I'll hope that it's not a hot-selling item, but otherwise, good luck.

Ill tell you first hand that I live in a neighborhood too, with no sidewalks. In the South Broad Ripple area.

We have a 13 month old infant and for the most part, we do not get out and push him down the street. Sure, people walk down it, but the cars are the worst part. 35-45mph. Speeding between stop signs that are separated by 2 blocks. My wife literally gets in the car, drives to the monon trail and walks. That is nice, but we are obviously a more passionate family about Indy than most. Most, just get in, turn the key and drive 2 blocks to the store to avoid the same thing.

Point is, it is unsafe. Chris, you are a rare blend of defiance and engagement. You cannot expect everyone to follow your lead, no matter how well meaning you are.

I have been following this discussion, and I have noticed what I think is a bit of an omission regarding how many people choose to stay fit.

Yes, walking and staying active throughout the day is ideal, and I do so myself. However, most people who want to stay fit, even those who live in extremely pedestrian-friendly neighborhoods, set aside time each day to work out, either at home or at a gym. I know many people who live in car-centric areas who are in great shape because they exercise indoors. Also, an individual's diet plays an important role in maintaining overall good health and physical fitness. Walking certainly doesn't make up for eating crap, and eating too much of it, all day long.

I certainly acknowledge that creating walkable neighborhoods can encourage a more healthy community; however, just putting down sidewalks does not in and of itself necessarily mean people will go out and walk, or walk enough to get meaningful exercise, nor does it mean they will choose to eat better or to live an overall healthier lifestyle.

This is not to say that I oppose efforts to make neighborhoods more pedestrian-friendly. In fact, I encourage them, and I love projects like the Cultural Trail and HARMONI's pedestrian improvements in the "Midtown" neighborhoods. However, walking trails, "traffic calming" medians and intersections, wider sidewalks, and the like will not prove to be a panacea for unhealthy lifestyles, nor does the lack of such public amenities prevent people from staying healthy.

I think it is important to present a realistic picture of the community benefits of pedestrian infrastructure improvements in an era of limited public funds. I don't think most people have general objections to the maintenance of existing sidewalks, or even the gradual installation over a period of time of sidewalks in residential areas where they were never built. However, I do believe attempts to oversell the benefits of pedestrian improvements, especially when proposing more ambitious projects, such as the Cultural Trail (which was quite fortunate it did not have to rely on local tax funding), will cause people to view them as boondoggles, and lead to opposition to even genuinely worthwhile projects.

Drove up to the NW part of downtown earlier today. Lots of good progress being made. The Wishard complex is looking huge. The parking garage is up to about six stories now and the main hospital building is at around five stories. The medical complex at 16th and Missouri (I think it is the new neurosciences center) is growing quickly. The steel is up to about four or five stories on that project too. The residential projects nearby are coming along well. The apartments over first floor commercial at 10th and Indiana Avenue are definitely changing the look of that intersection. They are starting on the third floor now. The 1201 Indiana Avenue project is getting close to finishing the exterior work. A little more brick still needs to go up - and most of the balconies as well. I also saw the condos at around 12th and MLK. The five or six new units added to the previous six or so units help make the area look a little bit more like a real neighborhood.

Drove up to the NW part of downtown earlier today. Lots of good progress being made. The Wishard complex is looking huge. The parking garage is up to about six stories now and the main hospital building is at around five stories. The medical complex at 16th and Missouri (I think it is the new neurosciences center) is growing quickly. The steel is up to about four or five stories on that project too. The residential projects nearby are coming along well. The apartments over first floor commercial at 10th and Indiana Avenue are definitely changing the look of that intersection. They are starting on the third floor now. The 1201 Indiana Avenue project is getting close to finishing the exterior work. A little more brick still needs to go up - and most of the balconies as well. I also saw the condos at around 12th and MLK. The five or six new units added to the previous six or so units help make the area look a little bit more like a real neighborhood.

I would love to see pics! I'm in Naples now, and I miss my City!

Tavern food? Doesn't sound like anything served in any taverns I've been in. I definitely won't be stopping in for any foie gras. I'll hope that it's not a hot-selling item, but otherwise, good luck.

You mean you've never had a shot and a beer and some octopus terrine or seared beets? :lol:

Tavern food? Doesn't sound like anything served in any taverns I've been in. I definitely won't be stopping in for any foie gras. I'll hope that it's not a hot-selling item, but otherwise, good luck.

I sure will be! It all sounds great! Neal is a good guy and knows food. Glad that this is happening downtown and not in fishers.

LMAO. Possibly the best description ever.

I was not trying to be critical of people like you and your wife who make a judgment (i.e. not safe on the street). You don't use it as an excuse to do nothing! You can, and do, drive to a recreational facility. The lack of a sidewalk on your street does not stop you. You figure out a way to use what's available to you, and that is to be commended greatly. Although it's possible if there were a whole lot more people out walking right down the middle of the street, the cars wouldn't be going 35-45. That defiance thing again. :)

It has everything to do with mindset: nothing worth having comes easily.

People are not going to walk along streets with no sidewalks and risk getting killed. Autocentric cities have fatter people for a reason. An environment hostile to walking will result in an environment where people don't walk.

Why should it be hard to get sidewalks and less autocentric development here? Other cities in this very country have much better balance in transportation but not Indianapolis- where you are immobile if you don't have access to a private automobile.