I saw that on indystar yesterday. it still blows me away that even with positive news like this, that people can still find a reason to bitch about it on the comments section. Often, I dont even read it but thought Id read just for the hell of it, and still found negative... idiots

I saw that on indystar yesterday. it still blows me away that even with positive news like this, that people can still find a reason to bitch about it on the comments section. Often, I dont even read it but thought Id read just for the hell of it, and still found negative... idiots

Idiots, for sure.

Let's play "imagine".

Imagine that the building is worth about $800,000, and that the theoretical property taxes would be $24,000 per year (3%). Imagine that Apparatus ends up employing 200 people, of whom 100 choose to live inside Marion County. Imagine that they make $60,000 per year on average, for a "Marion County payroll" of $6,000,000.

1.65% of $6,000,000 is $99,000 per year. So is it smart to give a graduated property tax abatement over 10 years of $120,000 (or even a full abatement of $240,000) in order to generate $99,000 worth of payroll taxes every year? It looks to me like a net dollar gain every year.

Likewise with the state: 200 jobs x $60,000 = $12,000,000 payroll. State income tax = 4.3%; annual state tax receipts = $516,000. If even 30% of the payroll is spent on goods in Indiana, that's another $250,000 in sales taxes generated, for a gain to the State of over $750,000 a year.

I say we'd better get busy convincing those 200 new hires to live inside Marion County, and hope that at least half of them do. :)

kangaroo, I have to disagree on the accent. Some in Indianapolis do have a Midwestern accent, but the vast majority have a noticeable southern inflection. That's not to say that they sound like they are from Alabama, but clearly the average Indy resident does not sound like someone from Detroit, Milwaukee, Denver, Minneapolis, etc. I'm sure most people are not conscious of this since it is not hard core deep south, but it is VERY noticeable to anyone who comes from a place where this is not prominent.

There are pockets of the city, especially the "favored quarter" of the north where you are much less likely to hear this. But a clear majority of the people speak this way.

I would say that out of approximately 30 people that I carry on a fairly long conversation with in Indy a day, about 75 percent have a southern accent. Not heavy, I actually call it a Kansas maybe Oklahoma-type accent.

I would say that out of approximately 30 people that I carry on a fairly long conversation with in Indy a day, about 75 percent have a southern accent. Not heavy, I actually call it a Kansas maybe Oklahoma-type accent.

Might be interesting reading if you can get it...

"The Hoosier Apex", by IU English Prof Scott Herring, published in the July 2009 issue of Southern Communication Journal.

"This essay examines how the geographic region of southern Indiana queers traditional boundaries of the U.S. South. It looks at the linguistic phenomenon known as “the Hoosier apex” to explore how southern dialects have crossed into regions such as the Midwest, and it traces how southern vernaculars as well as southern sexual cultures have migrated into the heartland over the nineteenth, twentieth, and twenty-first centuries. Using the word “greasy” and the queer icon of Tina Turner as its main reference points for these claims, the argument demonstrates that interregional migrations between the U.S. South and the U.S. Midwest can expand and enrich current theories of queer mobility, migration, and regionalism."

^^ Say What!!? Southern sexual cultures migrating into the Midwest? What? I don't get it -- What's this about "greasy"? and Tina Turner? Maybe I should read the book --- but I have to admit - it sounds really, really strange from the first preview of the document. Wow!

Idiots, for sure.

Let's play "imagine".

Imagine that the building is worth about $800,000, and that the theoretical property taxes would be $24,000 per year (3%). Imagine that Apparatus ends up employing 200 people, of whom 100 choose to live inside Marion County. Imagine that they make $60,000 per year on average, for a "Marion County payroll" of $6,000,000.

1.65% of $6,000,000 is $99,000 per year. So is it smart to give a graduated property tax abatement over 10 years of $120,000 (or even a full abatement of $240,000) in order to generate $99,000 worth of payroll taxes every year? It looks to me like a net dollar gain every year.

Likewise with the state: 200 jobs x $60,000 = $12,000,000 payroll. State income tax = 4.3%; annual state tax receipts = $516,000. If even 30% of the payroll is spent on goods in Indiana, that's another $250,000 in sales taxes generated, for a gain to the State of over $750,000 a year.

I say we'd better get busy convincing those 200 new hires to live inside Marion County, and hope that at least half of them do. :)

Great math, but it's all based upon the belief that, without the tax abatements, they wouldn't have bought the building and expanded here. I don't buy it.

Why not just give a tax break to every taxpayer? Because, ultimately, everyone pays more to make up for those who get breaks. That's really simple math as well. If Apparatus paid their full property tax bill, every other taxpayer could share the $120K, $240K or whatever the amount.

When you think about it, what determined that the property they're purchasing was worth $2 million? Was there someone else willing to pay $1.9M? Without the tax abatement, might Apparatus not have purchased the property for $1.8M instead? If someone else was willing to pay $1.9M for the property, would that not have been just as good for the City? These are the questions I never hear answered.

I would say that out of approximately 30 people that I carry on a fairly long conversation with in Indy a day, about 75 percent have a southern accent. Not heavy, I actually call it a Kansas maybe Oklahoma-type accent.

Again, I believe it depends on the circles you keep (and again, I don't mean that in a bad way). I grew up in Butler-Tarkington, and I never heard any even remotely Southern accent during the many years I lived there. (And no, I didn't just stay in BT, although I would say much of my life activities happed on the North Side, i.e. north of 38th Street and up into Hamilton County).

As I mentioned, the only Southern (actually Appalachian accent) I heard was from a few acquaintances from the Southside and from a family friend who was from Virginia. I would say that my paternal grandfather had a bit of a Plains-type accent; he grew up in what was once called Flackville, and is now known as Eagledale. His wife, my paternal grandmother, had a slightly more twangy accent and a sweet way of talking (everyone was "Honey" and she occasionally dropped her "g's"), but she was from Middletown, Ohio and grew up speaking Italian, so I guess her accent was a mixture of Midwest and Italian. My dad and his siblings grew up in Eagledale, and while my dad doesn't really have any accent, I do think my paternal aunts and uncles have some subtle influences on their speech from their parents.

That said, I still wouldn't say that over 75% of the people in the city speak with a noticeable Southern accent, or at least not with an accent most people would consider Southern.

I lived near Chicago (Lake County) for six months and HATED IT. Chicagoans are some of the most arrogant assholes I have ever met. They think they shit ice cream when in reality they just have fucked up taste buds. There are VAST swaths of Chicago that are run down dilapidated ghettoes.


Sad but true. When I moved away from there in 1992 it was a world of difference here.

Great math, but it's all based upon the belief that, without the tax abatements, they wouldn't have bought the building and expanded here. I don't buy it.

Why not just give a tax break to every taxpayer? Because, ultimately, everyone pays more to make up for those who get breaks. That's really simple math as well. If Apparatus paid their full property tax bill, every other taxpayer could share the $120K, $240K or whatever the amount.

When you think about it, what determined that the property they're purchasing was worth $2 million? Was there someone else willing to pay $1.9M? Without the tax abatement, might Apparatus not have purchased the property for $1.8M instead? If someone else was willing to pay $1.9M for the property, would that not have been just as good for the City? These are the questions I never hear answered.

The "but for" test is the logic of all economic development incentives and also TIF districts. All the expanding business has to do is produce a bona fide offer from another city, county, or state. It doesn't really stretch credibility that the CEO of Apparatus might have looked seriously at suburban sites in the donut counties, considering the suburban office vacancy rate. Since neither of us knows the CEO's state of mind, there is no factual ground to doubt that he convinced the city that he COULD leave without incentives. I believe that is most likely what happened.

Also: that WFYI building has been on the market since 2007 and vacant since 2008. Until now, no one has been willing to pay anything for it. It's unlikely Apparatus is paying anything near $2 million. Since it's a 1950's MCM building built and used as a TV station, it probably requires some expensive upgrades to function as a modern IT operations center.

Finally: ANY property tax from that property is a net gain since it has been off the rolls during WFYI's ownership.

Note that from the American Legion Mall north to 40th, big chunks of Meridian are occupied by not-for-profits or city-owned property: American Legion, Scottish Rite, Library, Cathedral, Catholic Center, WFYI, AIM, Little Red Door, Coalition for Homelessness Intervention, Girl Scouts, IBEW, Boy Scouts, MIBOR, Indianapolis Housing Authority, Julian Center, Citizens Gas, Indiana Supplier Diversity Council, Near North, Community Action, Library (again), Ivy Tech, The Children's Museum, Salvation Army, Winona site, Trinity/St. Richard's, Shortridge HS, Indiana Blood Center, Planned Parenthood, North Methodist, Tarkington Park, Society for Professional Journalists, United Way. These organizations, and others like them, are often the first to buy buildings, relocate, or expand on Meridian. That a growing for-profit enterprise is doing so is an economic-development win.

Back in St. Louis, CVS rejected because of new neighbors passionate about urban design:
http://www.stlurbanworkshop.com/2009/09/rejection-of-cvs-plan-attributed-to.html

Oh, and on that study, surely you guys must know that you can't get an academic article published these days without including queer theory......

Oh, and on that study, surely you guys must know that you can't get an academic article published these days without including queer theory......

Blame Richard Florida. :lol:

Back in St. Louis, CVS rejected because of new neighbors passionate about urban design:
http://www.stlurbanworkshop.com/2009/09/rejection-of-cvs-plan-attributed-to.html

Hmm. Building looks familiar and the site plan looks a lot like a certain Walgreen's.

Wonder if those folks in St. Louis know Idyllic Indy. :lol:

Report: Republic might put Frontier jobs in Indy
By Tom Spalding

(or go to Denver...)

Posted: September 4, 2009Read Comments(2)RecommendE-mail Print ShareA A Republic Airways Holdings' buying spree would mean employment shakeups that could result in hundreds of jobs moving from Denver to either Milwaukee or at its Indianapolis headquarters.

Republic Chief Executive Officer Bryan Bedford, meeting with the editorial board of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, said executives are considering the jobs shifts and could make a decision within 30 days, according to the newspaper.

Republic bought Milwaukee-based Midwest Airlines on July 31 and followed up with a winning bid of $108.8 million on Aug. 13 for bankrupt Frontier Airlines, which is based in Denver. The sale closes on or around Oct. 1.

In the days after the Frontier acquisition, reports surfaced out of Denver about attempts by that city to woo Republic operations from its Far Northside base, where it's been located since 1994.

Beford told the Star at the time: "I think the simple thing I can tell you is everything is on the table when it comes to where the work can be done the most efficiently," referring to integrating daily office tasks common to the three lines.


Bedford gave a few more details in speaking with the Milwaukee newspaper on Thursday.

He said the Frontier jobs that are in play include a customer service center in Las Cruces, N.M., with 150 employees; another 150 heavy maintenance jobs at Denver International Airport, and around 100 other Denver-based positions, Bedford said.

The Las Cruces customer service center will definitely be relocated to save money, Bedford said. Milwaukee, Denver and Indianapolis, where Republic has its corporate headquarters, are each being considered for that operation, he said.

The Denver positions that are in play could stay in that city, or could be moved to Milwaukee or Indianapolis, he said.

Carlo Bertolini, a spokesman for Republic, said today that Bedford did provide a few more details about what could happen, but stressed that nothing is official.

"We're just trying to determine what job functions can best be performed to the betterment of (employees) and the company," Bertolini said.

Republic is ranked among Indiana's fastest-rising businesses, growing from 690 employees a decade ago to what will be nearly 11,000 workers nationwide by Oct. 1.

Reach Star reporter Tom Spalding by at www.twitter.com/SpaldoBusiness or contact him at (317) 444-6202.

...the Frontier jobs that are in play include a customer service center in Las Cruces, N.M., with 150 employees; another 150 heavy maintenance jobs at Denver International Airport, and around 100 other Denver-based positions.

The Las Cruces customer service center will definitely be relocated to save money, Bedford said. Milwaukee, Denver and Indianapolis, where Republic has its corporate headquarters, are each being considered for that operation, he said.

The old ATA headquarters and the old United Maintenance hub beckon. Go for it, Mayor Ballard.

Hmm. Building looks familiar and the site plan looks a lot like a certain Walgreen's.

Wonder if those folks in St. Louis know Idyllic Indy. :lol:

The article mentioned that was an old site plan and that CVS actually offered to put the building on the corner. That would make it even more familiar. I'm guessing they didn't offer an entrance along the street.

Yeah, those are my peeps. :)

I don't want to reopen the Michigan-New York debate, but it seems to me that converting them to two way streets would make it even more difficult to justify the expense of getting those streets over or under the tracks. Whether you consider it a good thing or a bad thing, conversion to two-way traffic would make Michigan and NY less appealing as ways to get downtown. With existing underpasses at Washington, Market, and 10th, I'm not sure I can see the justification for both conversion and grade separation.

Oh come on, this issue is never really closed.

I would argue that converting the streets to two-way would strengthen the argument for at least one railroad overpass or underpass. If one street became an arterial and the other a collector, with the majority of traffic funneled to the former, one bridge could make a big difference on quality of commute for drivers, bicyclists, pedestrians, and transit users.

I believe it's a real detriment to redevelopment and quality of life on the near east side to have no grade-separated crossings between Market (which dead-ends shortly east of downtown) and 10th, a distance of essentially one mile.

What also might be helpful would be for Pine Street to cross the RR tracks between Market & Ohio, since there are no streets that connect from Washington to Michigan anywhere between College and Oriental.

What also might be helpful would be for Pine Street to cross the RR tracks between Market & Ohio, since there are no streets that connect from Washington to Michigan anywhere between College and Oriental.
I'd add a RR crossing for Davidson in addition to Pine, since that would create a standard frontage street system on the east side of downtown, from Michigan down to Washington.

Try going through the IUPUI campus at 5pm. Traffic on New York is at a standstill with all lanes open. I wouldn't want to even think what it would be like as a 2-way street.

I'd add a RR crossing for Davidson in addition to Pine, since that would create a standard frontage street system on the east side of downtown, from Michigan down to Washington.

Agreed, this was the missed opportunity--twice. Once during "Hyperfix" and once during "Open Market". Davidson should be restored as a frontage road all the way from Mass Ave to the Washington on-ramp. Likewise, Pine should run from Washington to at least Michigan.

I believe it's a real detriment to redevelopment and quality of life on the near east side to have no grade-separated crossings between Market (which dead-ends shortly east of downtown) and 10th, a distance of essentially one mile.

Ok, I'll bite.

Why?

Ok, I'll bite.

Why?

It wasn't really meant to be a trick question or anything like that. If you live on Michigan Street, east of the RR tracks, and you want to go downtown, it's pretty inconvenient to go to either 10th or Market to avoid the at-grade rail crossing. Trains are pretty frequent on these tracks, 5 or 10-minute delays are not uncommon, and because of the curve prior to the crossing it's usually too late to adjust your route once you've realized there's a train on the tracks. It's also not that uncommon for the trains to stop on the tracks, lengthening the delay. If you're a pedestrian or bicyclist, the inconvenience is obviously much greater.

Try going through the IUPUI campus at 5pm. Traffic on New York is at a standstill with all lanes open. I wouldn't want to even think what it would be like as a 2-way street.

Who would want to drive through the campus at 5 p.m.?

Seriously though, it's my perception that most vibrant downtowns with thriving college campuses:
a) don't have free-flowing vehicular traffic at 5 p.m. on weekdays, and
b) are places where people enjoying being outside their cars?

IUPUI's campus does not meet this mold, which I suppose some people are quite satisfied with, but it's not anywhere I'd want to be.

Of course, if New York were two-way on campus, Michigan would be as well. Perhaps, with more through streets, both east-west and north-south through the campus, traffic would not be at this supposed standstill. By the way, what do we mean by being a standstill? Does this mean that all the cars don't free flow from West Street to the River, or vice versa? Or does it actually take more than five minutes to drive through the campus?

Agreed, this was the missed opportunity--twice. Once during "Hyperfix" and once during "Open Market". Davidson should be restored as a frontage road all the way from Mass Ave to the Washington on-ramp. Likewise, Pine should run from Washington to at least Michigan.

Absolutely agreed. I'd suspect that there'd be major concerns about where to relocate traffic from the SB 65 to Ohio Street exit ramp. I suppose it could exit at Michigan and proceed to Ohio, Market, or Washington to turn west into downtown. Why didn't anyone suggest this to INDOT or the City?

What's really bad is I read a quote from the director of metropolitan development praising the plan, stating that this is what the city wanted all along. Its interesting that all modes of media in this city are praising this project while ignoring the fact that they are actually tearing down 99% of the building.

Clearly this proposal is light years beyond their original proposal but it doesn't trump the fact they are still tearing down a historical building

I'm working on getting details from a particular representative at Historic Landmarks Foundation of Indiana, but even they seem to see the results of this negotiation as a success.

http://www.historiclandmarks.org/NewsPhotos/Pages/NewsFeatures.aspx?NewsID=345

With friends like these...

http://www.ibj.com/downtown-deserves-better-design/PARAMS/article/6842

Who would want to drive through the campus at 5 p.m.?

Who? Anyone who works west of White River from Michigan/New York up to about 25th and lives on the east side from I-65 to I-465 between Prospect and 21st.

16th, 10th, and Washington are non-starters in that commute, and it's a hard drive down Holt Rd. to I-70 (and on 70) at rush hour.

That pretty much leaves Mich/NY as the closest thing to a free-flowing route across downtown. We don't really have an east-west freeway on the west side of downtown to facilitate cross-town commuting.

Note that there are a couple of very large employers located in the sector I noted: Rolls Royce, Allison, and Praxis.

it's my perception that most vibrant downtowns with thriving college campuses:
a) don't have free-flowing vehicular traffic at 5 p.m. on weekdays, and
b) are places where people enjoying being outside their cars?


There's a major city with not one, but TWO major college campuses just west of Downtown. The city's major east-west one-way arterial pair runs through parts of both. Redevelopment over the past 30 years has continued unaffected by the one-way street pair. And everyone walks there.

(See: Philadelphia; Drexel and Penn; Chestnut and Walnut Sts.)

Of course, the hole in my argument is that Philly actually has a mass-transit system. The campuses are served by subway and trolley lines as well as buses, and they are within a mile of the suburban heavy-rail station at 30th St. and the airport line. Even for commuter students it's not necessary to use a car.

http://www.ibj.com/downtown-deserves-better-design/PARAMS/article/6842

Zeigler's critique of the Villagio seems dead on. I just went by and that infernal parking garage has helped to destroy what could have been a viable component of a commercial corridor along Virginia Avenue.

I'm not sure I agree with her on 3 Mass, not because it's a spectacular design, but I could easily see the neighborhood association forces-that-be using this to strangle any attempt at development over 4 stories in that area (and many others) as being "out of character". In fact, she speaks as though she might have been one to spearhead IHPC design review requirements.

If she wants to talk bad design, surely she could spare a word or two on the Waverley? Or just about anything along the canal?

There's a major city with not one, but TWO major college campuses just west of Downtown. The city's major east-west one-way arterial pair runs through parts of both. Redevelopment over the past 30 years has continued unaffected by the one-way street pair. And everyone walks there.

(See: Philadelphia; Drexel and Penn; Chestnut and Walnut Sts.)

Of course, the hole in my argument is that Philly actually has a mass-transit system. The campuses are served by subway and trolley lines as well as buses, and they are within a mile of the suburban heavy-rail station at 30th St. and the airport line. Even for commuter students it's not necessary to use a car.

Great analogy. The scale of White River in Indy versus the Schuylkill River in Philly is fairly similar, though, of course, downtown residential population of Philly's Center City (also on the east side of that river) is far greater than anything Indianapolis can currently dream of. And the University City section of West Philadelphia (where Drexel and Penn are) is a very vibrant neighborhood in which everyone does indeed prefer to walk. So the density on either side of the Schuylkill effectively reduces the feeling of a gaping hole between the two sides.

Contrast that with the west side of downtown Indy, where neighborhoods like Hawthorne and Stringtown still seem separated from downtown by a chasm that has stalled most efforts to spruce up these areas. Granted, West Philadelphia outside of the University area is far more economically devastated than West Indy as a whole--the rest of West Philly is largely like one giant Haughville, but with much better architecture. But Philly still has a residential density, understandably accompanied by dense (if unreliable) mass transit that has made the Walnut/Chestnut one-way streets seem like a moot point.

Also interesting is that Philly has I-76 (Schuylkill expressway) along its riverside there, further creating a gap-like effect, and yet the result feels less gap-like than in Indy, where the west side is the only side in which a limited access highway does not run.

http://www.ibj.com/downtown-deserves-better-design/PARAMS/article/6842
Someone send her an invite here.

Connie may be right on the architectural style, but I think she's wrong on the scale. 3Mass in particular is the type of infill we should be promoting. This is inside the Mile Square for goodness sake. (The Villagio is plain and simple a disaster).

I agree -- and hopefully -- someday, not too far down the road, if we can get a decent six or seven story residential building to go on the flatiron site NE of 3 Mass Ave (across from Marsh), a good sized chunk of the EIFS on the 3 Mass building will disappear behind that building.

Zeigler's critique of the Villagio seems dead on. I just went by and that infernal parking garage has helped to destroy what could have been a viable component of a commercial corridor along Virginia Avenue.

I'm not sure I agree with her on 3 Mass, not because it's a spectacular design, but I could easily see the neighborhood association forces-that-be using this to strangle any attempt at development over 4 stories in that area (and many others) as being "out of character". In fact, she speaks as though she might have been one to spearhead IHPC design review requirements.

If she wants to talk bad design, surely she could spare a word or two on the Waverley? Or just about anything along the canal?
I wrote a response on IBJ that the system didn't put up, which was annoying since I spent a while writing it. Anybody else had problems there? The old system was always a bit quirky, but this new system simply sucks. It's slow and even worse about comments. I think it's no coincidence that comment volume has dropped over there since they changed systems.

Anyway, my response primarily centered around refuting her 3Mass criticism. Sure, some specific design elements are less-than-desirable (obviously, the EIFS sucks), but they got a lot of things right:

1. Built to the edges of the site, ground floor retail on both frontages and well-hidden parking.

2. The effective mass at a short distance (6 stories) is not "overwhelming" as she states, but fits in with the neighboring buildings (3-5 stories), while the total height (10 stories) works well as a transitional building between the 36 story One Indiana Square and everything else on Mass Ave.

3. The 10 story height allows more residential units, which reduces the price/unit of the underlying land, which allows the residences to be priced at a point more appropriate for "regular people" to buy there. I think it's no coincidence that the lower/cheaper floors have sold significantly better than the higher floors.

Who? Anyone who works west of White River from Michigan/New York up to about 25th and lives on the east side from I-65 to I-465 between Prospect and 21st.

16th, 10th, and Washington are non-starters in that commute, and it's a hard drive down Holt Rd. to I-70 (and on 70) at rush hour.

That pretty much leaves Mich/NY as the closest thing to a free-flowing route across downtown. We don't really have an east-west freeway on the west side of downtown to facilitate cross-town commuting.

Note that there are a couple of very large employers located in the sector I noted: Rolls Royce, Allison, and Praxis.

I must have missed why it is that Washington, 10th, 16th, & I-70 are not practical east-west routes?

Obviously, if people prefer to drive Mich/N.Y., then so be it. But to imply that there'd be some major traffic impact by making them two-way, I don't buy it, especially, east of I-65/70. As I've said before, each street was restricted to one lane, for several months, during the Pogues Run sewer work a couple years ago, and there was very little effect on traffic. That's one lane in either direction. Two-way traffic on each street would provide for at least two lanes of traffic (perhaps three at rush hour) in each direction.

Who would want to drive through the campus at 5 p.m.?

Apparently a lot of people since the traffic is at a standstill .........

^^ Couldn't have said it any better myself. :lol:

I must have missed why it is that Washington, 10th, 16th, & I-70 are not practical east-west routes?.

Glad you asked. I-70's nearest junction on the west side is at Holt Rd. It is several miles (and 5-10 minutes) from IMS to I-70. Then to get to the east side, one must exit at Washington, Keystone/Rural, or Emerson. From either Keystone/Rural or Emerson back to New York is another 5-8 minutes and several miles. And then there's the risk of a long delay at the south and north splits...much longer than a train. Basically, it's a non-starter on time, mileage, environmental impact, and frayed nerves.

Washington/Georgia through downtown is a hard row at rush, as there are numerous parking garages disgorging commuters. Plus, the addition of the interchange at I-65 has slowed Washington. East of I-65, it does flow well, but from West to Southeastern, it is bad.

16th is stop and go (long elapsed time) between UPS and College Ave., then one must pick and hack south somewhere between Mass Ave and Sherman to get to the "core" east side.

10th doesn't go across downtown, so one must detour north to 16th or south to St. Clair before returning to 10th, or get on I-70 at Meridian/Penn/Delaware. Ugh.

Michigan and New York flow relatively freely at or near the speed limit, which gives them a huge time edge in the east-west commute. The major exception is the backup at Military Park.

Obviously, if people prefer to drive Mich/N.Y., then so be it. But to imply that there'd be some major traffic impact by making them two-way, I don't buy it, especially, east of I-65/70. As I've said before, each street was restricted to one lane, for several months, during the Pogues Run sewer work a couple years ago, and there was very little effect on traffic. That's one lane in either direction. Two-way traffic on each street would provide for at least two lanes of traffic (perhaps three at rush hour) in each direction.

Both are really down to two lanes now, and relatively calmed. Without a total rebuild that either eliminates curb parking or tree lawns or both, I don't see how it would be possible for either to be two lanes each way east of Highland/Oriental (on NY) and State (Michigan).

Congratulations, Donna!

http://www.indyculturaltrail.info/168.html

Here's another thing better in Indy than Chicago.

http://www.indyculturaltrail.info/assets/images/StopBus_6_reduced.jpg

New bus shelters offer innovative design and literary art

Sept. 7, 2009 -- The Indianapolis Cultural Trail: A Legacy of Gene & Marilyn Glick announces another public art installation. “Moving Forward,” by Indianapolis-based architect Donna Sink, is a series of three custom-designed eco-friendly bus shelters that will showcase original poetry by published writers. The shelters will be located along the Cultural Trail on the south side of Virginia Avenue near Lexington Street, McCarty Street and Woodlawn Avenue.

Each shelter will be comprised of ecoresin panels, which are made using 40% post-industrial re-grind content, mounted in a stainless steel frame. The shelters will be installed on TX Active photocatalytic cement pads. These pads will be self-cleaning and will help reduce many pollutants deemed harmful to human health and the environment.

A call for poetry begins this week and submissions are due November 22, 2009. Published poets living in or with ties to Indiana are invited to submit work based on subjects such as community, neighborhoods, landmarks, shared spaces, transportation, history and the future. Poets must have published at least one poem in a print magazine or anthology prior to submitting work for “Moving Forward.” Selected poems may have been published previously.

The Writers’ Center of Indiana is administering a blind selection process with out of state jurors. Authors of the three selected poems will receive a $1,000 fee. Selections will be announced in March 2010. Poems will be displayed in their entirety on a stainless steel panel on the shelter. Excerpts of the poem will be embedded in the ecoresin panels.

“Moving Forward” is the sixth public-art installation planned for the eight-mile Indianapolis Cultural Trail that will connect each of the downtown cultural districts with a uniquely designed pedestrian and bicycle path.

For more information about the eco-friendly products used in “Moving Forward”: http://www.3-form.com/materials-varia.php or http://www.italcementigroup.com/ENG/Research+and+Innovation/Innovative+Products/TX+Active/

Download the call for poets here FINAL.Call_for_Poetry-ICT_Poetry_Stops_9_3_09.pdf 137.99 KBor call 317.713.3333 for more information about the Cultural Trail public art program.

About the Architect: Donna Sink is an Indianapolis-based architect who is interested in innovative and sustainable design solutions. In addition to designing residential and commercial spaces, Sink has extensive experience in exhibition design and is married to the artist Brian McCutcheon. They live in Indianapolis’ Broad Ripple Village Cultural District with their son, Angus. Sink received her Bachelor of Architecture from the University of Arizona and her Master of Architecture from Cranbook Academy of Art. She has worked at architecture firms throughout the country and in Europe, and is currently a partner at MW Harris Architecture and Design in Indianapolis, IN.

Is someone listening to you arenn? Seems like you mentioned something about upgrading the indygo stops to sometihng of this nature

Is someone listening to you arenn? Seems like you mentioned something about upgrading the indygo stops to sometihng of this nature

Actually, no one is listening to me. These are basically an quasi-art installation for the Cultural Trail. Thank Brian Payne, not Indygo. Donna can probably give more insight into the process.

So don't worry, my perfect track record of no one in Indy ever listening to me is intact :)

Thanks Aaron! The mandate for the bus shelters was to provide a functional street amenity that would give Indiana's literary artists an opportunity to be involved in the Cultural trail along with our 3-dimensional artists. Bus shelters were one of several options we looked at for functional art. Ultimately I decided bus shelters were really what I wanted to do because I feel a transit system has a duty to provide shelter for its users (I get so sad when I see a mom and kids waiting in the rain next to a bus route sign nailed to a pole). IndyGo has been very supportive of the idea, and we've talked about a different version being implemented on a broader scale. For now, these three shelters are very site specific.

What's not clear from the statement or the rendering is that there are three stops along Virginia, one each of yellow, orange, and blue, each with the work of a different poet.

Do keep in mind, though, Aaron, that I listen to you! I'm glad you like them.

Does anyone know if Pan Am Plaza is publicly or privately owned?

I remember seeing something about a development there at some point.. I always thought that space could use an overhaul and be turned into actual plaza that people can use. Think Fountain Square in Cincinnati.

Does anyone know if Pan Am Plaza is publicly or privately owned?

I remember seeing something about a development there at some point.. I always thought that space could use an overhaul and be turned into actual plaza that people can use. Think Fountain Square in Cincinnati.

It has split ownership. The buildings and plaza are owned separately from the parking garage underneath. I'm not sure about the land, whether it goes with one or the other or if the city retained it when the plaza was originally developed.

I used to live at New York and New Jersey until about 8 years ago, when I moved out of town. I visited the old neighborhood this weekend, and could barely recognize it--particularly the area south and east of there. There used to be an unbroken view from the interstate to the old State Museum, with nothing but parking lots in between. Now the area is mostly built up with 4- to 6-story buildings, most of them pretty decent-looking.

I completely missed this bit of news. I noticed the Center Township Healthplex (10th and Indiana) was boarded up when I drove by several times in late August, but I forgot to look up info until just now. Apparently it closed in early July. That site is a BIG opportunity for redevelopment. If redone correctly, the Indiana/University/10th intersection could have a cool town square feel, with the Bloch Cancer Survivors Park as the centerpiece.

************************************

Center Township seeks buyer for healthplex

By DeAntae Prince
deantae.prince@indystar.com
August 11, 2009 18:04 PM

The windows are boarded and the doors are locked at the Center Township trustee health center at West 10th Street and Indiana Avenue. The attached Fall Creek YMCA provides housing for the homeless, though it was once considered possible housing for nearby Indiana University Medical Center students.

But instead of trying to resuscitate the long-ailing Near-Westside complex, the owner wants to unload it.

"We would entertain any offers that we felt were legitimate," Center Township Trustee William Douglas said. "But we do care about what happens to the building, so we'd want to bring in something good for the neighborhood."

Appraisers are now trying to determine the value of the T-shaped complex, which includes the Center Township Healthplex Community Center and the now-closed YMCA built in 1958 for the black community. The trustee's office purchased the building in 2004 for $1.5 million after a community uproar when the YMCA of Greater Indianapolis closed it.

"Once we get it appraised, then we will determine whether to sell it or lease it," Douglas said.

The location is an attractive one, a few blocks from Downtown, Veterans Affairs and Wishard Memorial hospitals, Indiana University Medical Center, IUPUI, Crispus Attucks Medical Magnet high School, residential areas and several retail businesses.

The area is targeted for some development. A $30 million, 250-unit apartment complex in the 1200 block of Indiana Avenue is planned by Trinitas Ventures, a West Lafayette developer.

Wishard and Indiana University are planning a land swap that will accommodate the hospital's proposal for a new facility.

"There will be a number of people interested in (the health center property) simply because of the location," said Dorothy Jones, president of BOS Community Development Corp., which serves the area.

But if there's interest, no one has stepped up yet.

Todd Harper, spokesman for Health and Hospital Corp. of Marion County, said Wishard has no interest in buying the building.

Indiana University also has no interest in the property, said spokesman Larry MacIntyre.

The health center closed July 11 after operating four years under the Minority Health Coalition of Marion County.

"It just got to a point where we couldn't afford to lose money anymore," said Carl Ellison, health coalition vice president and operating officer. "We looked at every way to continue operating. It's just an aging facility that has its problems."

Ellison said the health coalition lost money every year it ran the health center. In addition to expensive equipment maintenance costs, membership declines kept operations in the red. In the best year, the coalition lost $10,000, Ellison said.

http://wap.indystar.com/igen/505601_240x240.JPG

http://wap.indystar.com/news.jsp?key=505601&rc=th

Regarding this location, I've also heard that Campus Apartments, a Section 8 apartment complex at 10th and Brooks (right next to the Healthplex), might be up for redevelopment. Apparently Van Rooy Properties owns Campus Apartments and had until recently considered closing it. Instead, they renewed the Section 8 license (or whatever it is) for that property, presumably because the financial timing is bad, but I bet the days are numbered for that complex.

INDIANAPOLIS -- An historic neighborhood on Indianapolis' south side is getting a $650,000 facelift in the form of a new fountain that they hope will make the area more inviting.

The new fountain at Fountain Square is part of a project that has been in the planning stages for 14 years, 6News' Julie Pursley reported.

The pioneer statue, which has been in place since the 1980s, will be lifted off its pedestal Tuesday afternoon and hauled away in what area businesses hope will be symbolic in ushering in a better future.

"It's a diamond in the rough. We need to realize the potential that the area has," said Dennis Baar, who lives in the area.

The cornerstone of the neighborhood is the third fountain, which has been there since 1889. It will be replaced to make it look like it did about 120 years ago, with a statue of a Greek goddess.

Fountain Square Main Street Manager Paul Baumgarten said the new configuration will not only be aesthetically pleasing, it will also be safe.

"Being a pedestrian in Fountain Square at this intersection is like running the gauntlet," Baumgarten said. "It's very dangerous."

Sidewalks will be removed, and there will be no pedestrian access to the fountain. In phase two of the work, the pioneer statue, which will be temporarily stored at Garfield Park, will be brought back to the neighborhood in a pedestrian only area at the corner of Prospect and Shelby streets.

Business owners hope the changes will bring in more foot traffic.

"I think this is going to mean we can be just like downtown," said Linton Calvert, who owns a business at Fountain Square. "This is a destination."

About $500,000 for the project came from a federal transportation grant. Another $150,000 came from private donors, such as Eli Lilly, Anthem, Farm Bureau and area business owners.

The first phase is expected to be completed by the end of November. Phase two doesn't have a timeline yet, because the funding has not yet been secured.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/20791951/detail.html

This is fantastic news!
The restoration of that fountain will be quiet pleasing and improve the aesthetic beauty of an already beautiful neighborhood.
http://www.discoverfountainsquare.com/images/lady%20spray%20fountain_small.jpg

I don’t care for the landscaping treatment or the fountain design for the Pioneer Family, but it includes a mixture of styles.
The plaza doesn’t look to grand either; it looks like a parking lot with a 90’s arcade attached to it.
Where are the plants?!
The fountain should be accessible by pedestrians, why on earth would you place it there if you couldn’t get close?
Also, that doesn’t seem very pedestrian friendly, it seems pedestrians are given a small plaza island in the midst of asphalt.
http://http://www.discoverfountainsquare.com/images/lady%20spray%20fountain_small.jpg

"The attached Fall Creek YMCA provides housing for the homeless, though it was once considered possible housing for nearby Indiana University Medical Center students."

Anyone know if the YMCA housing units are for sale also? The article is not clear.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090908/LOCAL/90908015/Fountain+fix+designed+to+revitalize+Square

Read the comments below. Glad some people besides us are starting to see the light. :)

Michigan and New York flow relatively freely at or near the speed limit, which gives them a huge time edge in the east-west commute. The major exception is the backup at Military Park.[QUOTE]

Now I'm confused about whether New York & Michigan flow freely, or whether traffic is at a standstill as someone else mentioned.

[QUOTE=cdc guy;42777518]
Both are really down to two lanes now, and relatively calmed. Without a total rebuild that either eliminates curb parking or tree lawns or both, I don't see how it would be possible for either to be two lanes each way east of Highland/Oriental (on NY) and State (Michigan).

I don't believe either one need be two lanes in each direction, however, with few brief exceptions, each street is four lanes wide east of downtown. Therefore, if need be, a parking lane could be used for a 2nd lane of rush-hour traffic in the peak direction.

I haven't spent a lot of time in west Philadelphia, which one-way proponents have cited multiple times here as an example of a thriving neighborhood with one-way arterials, but I'd suspect that there are a lot of other variables there that help offset the impacts of fast and frequent vehicular traffic. If the near Eastside of Indy had a couple of world class universities and their economic impact, the value of properties along Michigan and New York might not be so negatively impacted. However, absent any such amenities in the neighborhood, the built environment is much more important to the area's success. All other factors equal, one-way arterials are not attractive to residents and they're not particularly attractive to retail development.

Michigan and New York are one way, but not the ultra-wide drag strips that exist in the core. They are nothing like Illinois, Capitol, or even Delaware. Arguing over one way vs. two-way for those streets is quibbling over something that doesn't matter as much. There are many more factors other than that which will decide whether the east side comes back.

Generally, however, there is far less impact from lane closures or other reductions in vehicular capacity than is generally predicted. Super-70 eliminated about half the capacity on the busiest interstate in Indiana, and basically nobody noticed. Many freeways have been outright torn down with no ill effects. Jane Jacobs wrote about cities could "attrit" the role of the automobile by gradually nibbling away at accommodations for it without any real pain.

...

If she wants to talk bad design, surely she could spare a word or two on the Waverley? ...

Speaking of the Waverly, anyone planning to raise an objection to their new proposed building along East Street? http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/Planning/Zoning/Documents/RC_HE/9-10-09rc_hed.pdf

Michigan and New York are one way, but not the ultra-wide drag strips that exist in the core. They are nothing like Illinois, Capitol, or even Delaware. Arguing over one way vs. two-way for those streets is quibbling over something that doesn't matter as much. There are many more factors other than that which will decide whether the east side comes back.

Generally, however, there is far less impact from lane closures or other reductions in vehicular capacity than is generally predicted. Super-70 eliminated about half the capacity on the busiest interstate in Indiana, and basically nobody noticed. Many freeways have been outright torn down with no ill effects. Jane Jacobs wrote about cities could "attrit" the role of the automobile by gradually nibbling away at accommodations for it without any real pain.

Aaron, your take is always appreciated.

While I concede your point that the number of lanes on most portions of New York & Michigan on the east side is considerably less than some other one-ways, thanks in part to the bike lane striping, the lane widths still appear generous enough to faciltate fast-moving traffic. The vehicle speeds make the bike lane less than inviting in my opinion. Those places where the travel lanes still directly abut the sidewalk are inhospitable to pedestrians, and the lack of landscaping or other streetscape amenities, partially caused by the relatively narrow right-of-way width for an arterial street, contribute to an unattractive environment.

To promote rejuvenation of the corridors, convert them to two-way with through traffic funneled to Michigan, which would benefit the commercial properties that exist there and perhaps lead to some urban mixed-use developments.

Provide a two-way, curb separated bike trail along New York Street (think Cultural Trail without all the expensive bells and whistles, depending on how many bags of cash fall out of the sky) connecting downtown and IUPUI to Irvington and the Pleasant Run & Pennsy Trails. Such an amenity, with reduced and slowed traffic, could spur residential development/rehabilation along and adjacent to New York Street.

I completely missed this bit of news. I noticed the Center Township Healthplex (10th and Indiana) was boarded up when I drove by several times in late August, but I forgot to look up info until just now. Apparently it closed in early July. That site is a BIG opportunity for redevelopment. If redone correctly, the Indiana/University/10th intersection could have a cool town square feel, with the Bloch Cancer Survivors Park as the centerpiece.

I'm begging for some pedestrian-friendly improvements to this area. 10th and 11th between MLK and University is pretty rough, what with the lack of crosswalks and the utility poles and people-mover supports blocking the precious few sidewalks. Though, non of that is unusual 'round here.

I had gotten the impression lately that the Campus Apartments were in the last days. I'm not exited to hear that that might not be the case.

Now I'm confused about whether New York & Michigan flow freely, or whether traffic is at a standstill as someone else mentioned.

There's a significant backup at the West-NY intersection that usually takes two traffic-signal cycles to clear at rush hour. Since the barricades have been removed from the 3Mass site, that's really the only place where there is significant congestion on NY eastbound at rush hour. It's a couple of minutes delay.

Otherwise, the traffic flows relatively freely across downtown and onto the east side. Regardless of the time of day, the other "alternatives" I discussed take longer, involve more risk of congestion, or require more miles driven.

To promote rejuvenation of the corridors, convert them to two-way with through traffic funneled to Michigan, which would benefit the commercial properties that exist there and perhaps lead to some urban mixed-use developments.

Provide a two-way, curb separated bike trail along New York Street (think Cultural Trail without all the expensive bells and whistles, depending on how many bags of cash fall out of the sky) connecting downtown and IUPUI to Irvington and the Pleasant Run & Pennsy Trails. Such an amenity, with reduced and slowed traffic, could spur residential development/rehabilation along and adjacent to New York Street.

On your other points, do you suppose that the presence of a block-long prison dead zone on Michigan and New York Streets, with the lovely 12-foot chain link topped by triple razor-wire loops, might be a more significant impairment to neighborhood quality of life than two one-way streets? Or that the rusting vacant hulk of the old RCA and Mallory factories and parking lots might be a constant drag on the neighborhoods around them? How about the bombed-out Marsh at Sherman and Washington? Until those HUGE issues are resolved, the near east side's gains will be limited to two areas: the 10th St. corridor and Irvington.

Finally, a pet peeve: "mixed use" is a meaningless term. All of Indianapolis' city neighborhoods (at least those in Center Twp. bigger than block-club size, and many outside Center too) are "mixed use", and all multi-tenant buildings are "mixed use". The more applicable terms are "corner commercial" or "integrated neighborhood commercial".

There's a significant backup at the West-NY intersection that usually takes two traffic-signal cycles to clear at rush hour. Since the barricades have been removed from the 3Mass site, that's really the only place where there is significant congestion on NY eastbound at rush hour. It's a couple of minutes delay.
With the addition of the bike and parking lanes on New York, people are slowly learning that the barricades were really only blocking a parking lane. The blocked lane used to be a travel lane, so it's now a significant source of confusion (and dangerous merging) when people get up to the Alabama intersection and realize that cars are parked in the lane they're trying to drive in. The barricade should have just been left in place until DPW was prepared to finish the restriping and signage job on that block of New York.

With the addition of the bike and parking lanes on New York, people are slowly learning that the barricades were really only blocking a parking lane. The blocked lane used to be a travel lane, so it's now a significant source of confusion (and dangerous merging) when people get up to the Alabama intersection and realize that cars are parked in the lane they're trying to drive in. The barricade should have just been left in place until DPW was prepared to finish the restriping and signage job on that block of New York.

It would be a MASSIVE improvement if DPW would take away the handful of curb parking spaces from the corner of Alabama & New York over to the Marsh entry, and mark that lane left only into the Marsh parking lot.

Two major safety improvements: it would get the left-turning folks out of the left-hand through travel lane, and it would GREATLY improve visibility for those turning left OUT of the Marsh parking lot.

It would be a MASSIVE improvement if DPW would take away the handful of curb parking spaces from the corner of Alabama & New York over to the Marsh entry, and mark that lane left only into the Marsh parking lot.

Two major safety improvements: it would get the left-turning folks out of the left-hand through travel lane, and it would GREATLY improve visibility for those turning left OUT of the Marsh parking lot.
That's a really good idea. There's even precedent for that in downtown -- from the corner of Maryland and Illinois to the left turn down to the mall garage before 14 West.

This is fantastic news!
The restoration of that fountain will be quiet pleasing and improve the aesthetic beauty of an already beautiful neighborhood.
http://www.discoverfountainsquare.com/images/lady%20spray%20fountain_small.jpg

I don’t care for the landscaping treatment or the fountain design for the Pioneer Family, but it includes a mixture of styles.
The plaza doesn’t look to grand either; it looks like a parking lot with a 90’s arcade attached to it.
Where are the plants?!
The fountain should be accessible by pedestrians, why on earth would you place it there if you couldn’t get close?
Also, that doesn’t seem very pedestrian friendly, it seems pedestrians are given a small plaza island in the midst of asphalt.
http://http://www.discoverfountainsquare.com/images/lady%20spray%20fountain_small.jpg

These are all perfectly justifiable criticisms. I'm am growing increasingly averse to this revitalization strategy in Fountain Square. The space for the plaza indeed looks uninviting--it would actually be suitable for a structure, perhaps apartments using a single-loaded corridor to look out onto Shelby and Prospect street. This plaza will only delay (if not outright impede) the densification this neighborhood needs.

And the idea of making the central fountain off-limits to pedestrians is a horrible one. My impression is that it will only encourage cars to speed through the intersection, making it even less desirable for people on foot. The pedestrian area has been pushed to the margin so they can stare at zooming cars, when it should be the centerpiece. I think it could end up being just as ineffective as the plaza overlooking the museums at the JW Marriott. Neither one is built yet; hopefully I'm wrong. But to me these "improvements" seem about as damaging as the plans for Broad Ripple Avenue.

That's a really good idea. There's even precedent for that in downtown -- from the corner of Maryland and Illinois to the left turn down to the mall garage before 14 West.

Thanks. I drive it most days, and sometimes stop at Marsh on the way home. It's a source of occasional irritation. :)

I dunno if I completely agree with this guy... After all he works with The Star.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=videonetwork&videoID=1247029303

:ohno:

I dunno if I completely agree with this guy... After all he works with The Star.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=videonetwork&videoID=1247029303

:ohno:

Dan's a pretty smart guy. I've met with him about some cycling stories he's working on...

On your other points, do you suppose that the presence of a block-long prison dead zone on Michigan and New York Streets, with the lovely 12-foot chain link topped by triple razor-wire loops, might be a more significant impairment to neighborhood quality of life than two one-way streets? Or that the rusting vacant hulk of the old RCA and Mallory factories and parking lots might be a constant drag on the neighborhoods around them? How about the bombed-out Marsh at Sherman and Washington? Until those HUGE issues are resolved, the near east side's gains will be limited to two areas: the 10th St. corridor and Irvington.

I hear the razor wire at the prison will be coming down with the arrival of the minimum security male offenders. Not sure that's a huge plus or minus. Woodruff Place has thrived being right across Michigan from the prison.

Sure it would be great to see some of those large sites redeveloped, but only one of them is along either New York or Michigan.

I agree that near east side redevelopment is likely to thrive most along 10th Street, rather than Wash, N.Y., or Michigan, precisely because it's the only street that is designed to be a pedestrian corridor.


Finally, a pet peeve: "mixed use" is a meaningless term. All of Indianapolis' city neighborhoods (at least those in Center Twp. bigger than block-club size, and many outside Center too) are "mixed use", and all multi-tenant buildings are "mixed use". The more applicable terms are "corner commercial" or "integrated neighborhood commercial".

I was going with the common mixed-use definition of commercial first floor, residential upper floors. Good luck getting "integrated neighborhood commercial" to catch on. It's not very catchy.

These are all perfectly justifiable criticisms. I'm am growing increasingly averse to this revitalization strategy in Fountain Square. The space for the plaza indeed looks uninviting--it would actually be suitable for a structure, perhaps apartments using a single-loaded corridor to look out onto Shelby and Prospect street. This plaza will only delay (if not outright impede) the densification this neighborhood needs.

And the idea of making the central fountain off-limits to pedestrians is a horrible one. My impression is that it will only encourage cars to speed through the intersection, making it even less desirable for people on foot. The pedestrian area has been pushed to the margin so they can stare at zooming cars, when it should be the centerpiece. I think it could end up being just as ineffective as the plaza overlooking the museums at the JW Marriott. Neither one is built yet; hopefully I'm wrong. But to me these "improvements" seem about as damaging as the plans for Broad Ripple Avenue.

I noticed new striping on westbound Prospect that would appear to eliminate on-street parking on the block approaching Shelby. I'm hoping that's only temporary.

I hear the razor wire at the prison will be coming down with the arrival of the minimum security male offenders. Not sure that's a huge plus or minus. Woodruff Place has thrived being right across Michigan from the prison.

The governor cancelled the prison rearrangement plans. The women are staying. And presumably also the razor wire.


I agree that near east side redevelopment is likely to thrive most along 10th Street, rather than Wash, N.Y., or Michigan, precisely because it's the only street that is designed to be a pedestrian corridor.

Redevelopment on the near east side is going to thrive most along 10th because that's where a great deal of attention and money is focused on all kinds of problems.

10th is not significantly different in pedestrian-friendly design than Michigan, New York, or Washington.

While I concede your point that the number of lanes on most portions of New York & Michigan on the east side is considerably less than some other one-ways, thanks in part to the bike lane striping, the lane widths still appear generous enough to faciltate fast-moving traffic. The vehicle speeds make the bike lane less than inviting in my opinion.

...

Provide a two-way, curb separated bike trail along New York Street (think Cultural Trail without all the expensive bells and whistles, depending on how many bags of cash fall out of the sky) connecting downtown and IUPUI to Irvington and the Pleasant Run & Pennsy Trails. Such an amenity, with reduced and slowed traffic, could spur residential development/rehabilation along and adjacent to New York Street.

I disagree in a number of respects. First, I have been commuting on those bike lanes (from Irvington to the east side of downtown) at least a couple of days a week all spring and summer, and I don't find them at all "univiting." In other cities and soon in Indianapolis on Allisonville Road, there are bike lanes in cozier spaces and on faster streets. I have had only one car-related close call this summer, and it was because someone turned in front of me. As I understand it, that's pretty typical. Car-bike collisions tend to happen at intersections and driveways, not in the middle of blocks. And the nice thing about bike lanes on one way streets is that the arrangement reduces the number of directions from which cars will be turning.

I think the Cultural Trail is a great amenity, and I ride most of the completed portion as the final leg of my commute. Still, I think an off-street trail like that makes more sense for downtown, where there are pedestrian signals and stoplights at every intersection. I think an off-street path on Michigan or New York would make bikes less visible and would force me and other bike commuters to slow down literally for every side street and alley. It would make the bike commute much slower and much more dangerous.

The governor cancelled the prison rearrangement plans. The women are staying. And presumably also the razor wire.

Hadn't heard that news.


Redevelopment on the near east side is going to thrive most along 10th because that's where a great deal of attention and money is focused on all kinds of problems.

10th is not significantly different in pedestrian-friendly design than Michigan, New York, or Washington.

I agree mostly with the first point about resources being focused on 10th. However, the designs do make a big difference, at least from the perspective of the people I know who live along or near Mich, N.Y. or Washington. Washington is a joke for pedestrians. No off-street parking and the sidewalks wedged alongside the street in many places, which is very dangerous. The Irvington stretch is designed differently, and go figure, it's much more inviting. Obviously, the on-street parking in Irvington (as well as along many portions of 10th Street) and the more pleasant streetscape is in large part supported by the urban appropriate design of buildings and the clustering of businesses. However, the type of businesses that locate in an area and the type of buildings that get built are highly dependent upon the street design. Therefore, until Wash, N.Y., and Mich. are designed to value pedestrians equal to cars, there won't be pedestrian-friendly, dense urban development. It's just a question of what we want for these corridors.

By the way, cities like Portland and New York seem to be moving towards the segregated bicycle track concept, and Indy is ahead of the game here with the Cultural Trail.

When I interviewed Brian Payne for an article I did on the Cultural Trail, one thing he mentioned was that there was no way families would let kids in bike lanes downtown, and that downtown bike lanes were more useful to hardened cyclists than the casual biker who might be from areas with less crowded streets and aren't used to riding on primary arterials. The separate bicycle path was designed to make this more attractive in that regard.

I think having segregated bicycle tracks is very doable at low cost in much of the city. You just need some type of barrier separation, but not necessarily the high grade pavers and such used on the Cultural Trail.

I disagree in a number of respects. First, I have been commuting on those bike lanes (from Irvington to the east side of downtown) at least a couple of days a week all spring and summer, and I don't find them at all "univiting." In other cities and soon in Indianapolis on Allisonville Road, there are bike lanes in cozier spaces and on faster streets. I have had only one car-related close call this summer, and it was because someone turned in front of me. As I understand it, that's pretty typical. Car-bike collisions tend to happen at intersections and driveways, not in the middle of blocks. And the nice thing about bike lanes on one way streets is that the arrangement reduces the number of directions from which cars will be turning.

I think the Cultural Trail is a great amenity, and I ride most of the completed portion as the final leg of my commute. Still, I think an off-street trail like that makes more sense for downtown, where there are pedestrian signals and stoplights at every intersection. I think an off-street path on Michigan or New York would make bikes less visible and would force me and other bike commuters to slow down literally for every side street and alley. It would make the bike commute much slower and much more dangerous.

I hear what you're saying, but I don't get why frequent signalized intersections (i.e. downtown) make a curb-separated trail a better idea than it would be along a one-way arterial (New York Street). In either case, preventing visual obstructions near intersections is key.

I'll defer to some of the more frequent bicyclists, but I've found the bike lanes to not provide enough buffer from parked cars (I have a phobia of driving into open doors), and I've also found the zig-zagging of the lanes from one block to the next to be dangerous as there appears to be a lot of confusion, not to mention the places where the striping just doesn't provide enough room for the bike lane and the adjacent driving lane, such as near the 3Mass project.

Please don't take this to mean I don't support bike lanes, however, in this case, my opinion is that the East Side would benefit more from an amenity that would be safe and usable for everyone, not just the bravest of cyclists.

The NIMBY's are at it again.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090910/BUSINESS07/909100481/1104/BUSINESS07/Time+will+tell+on+value+of+remake+at+49th+and+Penn

The NIMBY's are at it again.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090910/BUSINESS07/909100481/1104/BUSINESS07/Time+will+tell+on+value+of+remake+at+49th+and+Penn

Depressing. We have so few attractive and active neighborhood nodes, and we can't even make improvements to the ones we have.

I hear what you're saying, but I don't get why frequent signalized intersections (i.e. downtown) make a curb-separated trail a better idea than it would be along a one-way arterial (New York Street). In either case, preventing visual obstructions near intersections is key.

I'll defer to some of the more frequent bicyclists, but I've found the bike lanes to not provide enough buffer from parked cars (I have a phobia of driving into open doors), and I've also found the zig-zagging of the lanes from one block to the next to be dangerous as there appears to be a lot of confusion, not to mention the places where the striping just doesn't provide enough room for the bike lane and the adjacent driving lane, such as near the 3Mass project.

Please don't take this to mean I don't support bike lanes, however, in this case, my opinion is that the East Side would benefit more from an amenity that would be safe and usable for everyone, not just the bravest of cyclists.
My point is that downtown, given the frequency of traffic signals and density of traffic, cyclists on the Cultural Trail don't expect to go fast, and drivers expect to see pedestrians and cyclists. On the near eastside, there are numerous sidestreets and alleys between each major intersection. Your concept has a two way bike lane separated from the street by a treelawn. Indeed, you have 26 feet of landscaping, bike lane, and sidewalk separating a sidestreet driver from her turn onto New York Street. Tell me this: how can a driver on the side street safely enter the main street without getting into the habit of creeping across the two way bike lane? Certainly, this is an issue on the Cultural Trail as well, but is mitigated by relatively infrequent curb-cuts, expected pedestrian traffic, and signal-controlled intersections. On the current bike lanes, my visibility to side street drivers is enhanced by the fact that I'm right next to the travel lanes. Even someone who is looking for vehicular traffic can't help but see me. Under your plan, every side street becomes an adventure. Either I have to stop completely because a left-turner is blocking the lane, or I have to cross my fingers and hope that side street drivers are in the habit of looking both ways twice.

I think Brian Payne's point about kids on bikes is well-taken, but it highlights the difference between the Cultural Trail and bike lanes on arterials: the Cultural Trail is primarily a sightseeing trail. The bike lanes on Michigan and New York are primarily for transportation. Again, I think the Cultural Trail makes sense where it is, because it fits with the relatively dense and slow moving character of downtown traffic. You'll have to take my word for it, but I'm a mid-30s desk jockey with two young kids. Even in my younger days, I wasn't particularly adventurous. If riding to work felt like an X Games experience, I wouldn't do it. I feel much safer now than I would under your proposal.

The NIMBY's are at it again.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090910/BUSINESS07/909100481/1104/BUSINESS07/Time+will+tell+on+value+of+remake+at+49th+and+Penn

It's really pathetic all the shit this wonderful project is taking. I mean seriously, they're not proposing a 10 story apartment building. They simply want to expand to an already vibrant area. Places like this is what makes cities healthy. What don't these NIMBY idiots not understand?

I say we mark the date down, OCTOBER 6th and go there in SUPPORT of this project. I believe that it's time to let our presence known. Who's with me? :)

I say we mark the date down, OCTOBER 6th and go there in SUPPORT of this project. I believe that it's time to let our presence known. Who's with me? :)

If only we were all geriatric malcontents with nothing better to do at 2 pm on a Tuesday. The zoning board seems to have stopped paying much attention to the Broad Ripple NIMBYs, so hopefully it will be the same story here.

If only we were all geriatric malcontents with nothing better to do at 2 pm on a Tuesday. The zoning board seems to have stopped paying much attention to the Broad Ripple NIMBYs, so hopefully it will be the same story here.

Care to provide any examples? That's at least encouraging. :cheers:

I dont "get it" obviously. If I lived in that area, I would be proud to know that it was being developed.

I drive through this intersection often since I live close to it, and the closed stores always make me think ill things of the area. But now that its redevloping, I have a different opinion.

It sounds like a case of "this is our corner and we dont want anyone else here" but for the life of me, cant even gain a perspective why people would think this way.

Safety? Come on. Its a 4 way stop there.

Look before you cross. its that simple people

I dont "get it" obviously. If I lived in that area, I would be proud to know that it was being developed.

I drive through this intersection often since I live close to it, and the closed stores always make me think ill things of the area. But now that its redevloping, I have a different opinion.

It sounds like a case of "this is our corner and we dont want anyone else here" but for the life of me, cant even gain a perspective why people would think this way.

Safety? Come on. Its a 4 way stop there.

Look before you cross. its that simple people

It's part of living in a city for crying out loud! If these clowns want to pack their bags for Fishers, I'm all for it. :bash:

It's part of living in a city for crying out loud! If these clowns want to pack their bags for Fishers, I'm all for it. :bash:

I have talked to a number of the neighbors and listened carefully to their objections.

I heard three particularly valid ones.

1. For 60-80 years this has been a neighborhood-serving node. It generally does NOT draw people from far and wide, which by definition makes it lower-impact and easier to walk to. This proposal would change the nature of the corner from "neighborhood node" to "destination restaurant". That is an inherently more-intense use, which externalizes some costs onto nearby residents (negative impacts such as increased traffic, trash dumpsters being emptied at 4am, truck deliveries on the street, catering trucks running at all hours, outdoor music and parties until late evening, etc.). For people who didn't buy a house with that nearby, it's an issue. There really are families with kids living on the same block.

2. There isn't enough parking to support the node if it is fully redeveloped as a destination (like, say, BR Ave with club after restaurant after bar). The parking that's there supports the "in and out" nature of the businesses that have occupied the corner: flower shop, drycleaner, pharmacy, breakfast/lunch cafe, hairdresser. It might support one small evening dining spot. But even then, limited off-street parking and increased traffic tends to become an issue on weekend nights when nearby neighbors might want to have friends or family over. Again, for people who didn't buy a house with that nearby, it's an issue.

3. We have a sidewalk ordinance; there is no real or usable sidewalk along the front of this commercial property. If this were downtown, they'd be required to put back the public sidewalk and a landscape strip.

There is a distinct difference between, say, the downtown corner of Alabama & Vermont and the uptown corner of 49th & Penn. There really is such a thing as "too intense" of a development in certain parts of a neighborhood like Meridian-Kessler that is 90% single or two-family residential in its land-use pattern. Something like this wouldn't (or IMO shouldn't) be an issue at 49th & College or Kessler & College. But here, there are some valid issues that ought to be considered.

I think compromise is possible if the property owners and the business owner are willing to understand the neighbors' points, and if the neighbors are able to accept that something WILL happen whether they like it or not and get past a knee-jerk "not in my back yard".

And finally...these neighbors are the people we want in the city. We DO NOT want to send them to Fishers; they spend money in the neighborhood, maintain and improve their homes, pay taxes, don't require lots of city services, and often send their kids to neighborhood schools. Once upon a time, I was one of 'em. I used to walk my dogs past this corner in the evening. :)

There is ample parking on Penn to support much greater intensity of development than exists right now. There's hardly ever anyone parking there.

It's ironic that the M-K people are complaining on the one hand that the city won't spend money in their area, then they protest any improvements to the tax base. IMO, given the very limited funds the city has to invest, I'd suggest aligning that investment to the strategic goals the city wants to achieve. If neighbors don't want urban development (in the old city areas where it is clearly appropriate), fine - but don't expect to get your streets repaved or sidewalks repaired. There has to be an ROI in this investment for the city in terms of supporting the tax base. That means commercial and multi-family development. Even people in Fishers get it that you need commercial to support the tax base.

Care to provide any examples? That's at least encouraging. :cheers:

I was thinking of the Monon Place redevelopment, which was approved despite the theatrics of some residents who pulled their kids out of school to bring to the hearing as props (However, a year later there is no sign of construction starting). Also, there have been a number of developments approved along the Monon Trail over some objections.

I have talked to a number of the neighbors and listened carefully to their objections.

I heard three particularly valid ones.
...
3. We have a sidewalk ordinance; there is no real or usable sidewalk along the front of this commercial property. If this were downtown, they'd be required to put back the public sidewalk and a landscape strip.

I don't understand what you're saying that the sidewalk and landscaping would need to be restored if this was downtown. I thought the sidewalk ordinance updates applied to all commercial (like this), industrial, and multi-family zoned property, but was not part of the CBD Ordinance. Nonetheless, I thought it only applied to new construction.

However, I'd say that the perpendicular parking, partially in the right-of-way, backing over where a sidewalk should be located is a joke. It's an example of the way development has been done in this town for decades; on the cheap and in the interest of the private developer and drivers at the expense of the public environment and pedestrians. A curb, sidewalk, landscaping, and parallel public on-street parking should be constructed.


And finally...these neighbors are the people we want in the city. We DO NOT want to send them to Fishers; they spend money in the neighborhood, maintain and improve their homes, pay taxes, don't require lots of city services, and often send their kids to neighborhood schools. Once upon a time, I was one of 'em. I used to walk my dogs past this corner in the evening. :)

Amen to that! Sure, if these people left, some middle-class people might get to move in and enjoy the neighborhood, but what would happen to the neighborhoods they would vacate?

See next.

My point is that downtown, given the frequency of traffic signals and density of traffic, cyclists on the Cultural Trail don't expect to go fast, and drivers expect to see pedestrians and cyclists. On the near eastside, there are numerous sidestreets and alleys between each major intersection. Your concept has a two way bike lane separated from the street by a treelawn. Indeed, you have 26 feet of landscaping, bike lane, and sidewalk separating a sidestreet driver from her turn onto New York Street. Tell me this: how can a driver on the side street safely enter the main street without getting into the habit of creeping across the two way bike lane? Certainly, this is an issue on the Cultural Trail as well, but is mitigated by relatively infrequent curb-cuts, expected pedestrian traffic, and signal-controlled intersections. On the current bike lanes, my visibility to side street drivers is enhanced by the fact that I'm right next to the travel lanes. Even someone who is looking for vehicular traffic can't help but see me. Under your plan, every side street becomes an adventure. Either I have to stop completely because a left-turner is blocking the lane, or I have to cross my fingers and hope that side street drivers are in the habit of looking both ways twice.

I think Brian Payne's point about kids on bikes is well-taken, but it highlights the difference between the Cultural Trail and bike lanes on arterials: the Cultural Trail is primarily a sightseeing trail. The bike lanes on Michigan and New York are primarily for transportation. Again, I think the Cultural Trail makes sense where it is, because it fits with the relatively dense and slow moving character of downtown traffic. You'll have to take my word for it, but I'm a mid-30s desk jockey with two young kids. Even in my younger days, I wasn't particularly adventurous. If riding to work felt like an X Games experience, I wouldn't do it. I feel much safer now than I would under your proposal.

Good food for thought.

I think your concerns emphasize the need for meticulous planning to ensure only very low-level landscaping and minimization of other obstructions at intersections.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_vbpd6tnayF8/SZj5GzqHzWI/AAAAAAAAADU/Y3D9ywnYhro/s1600-h/nescoright.jpg

Proper signage and stop lines along the cross streets would be very important, but I don't think that 26' between the right-of-way line and the vehicular travel lanes is in and of itself a reason for concern. Since the sidewalk location would not change, the stop line for northbound traffic would not be moved back, it would only be the travel lanes that would be shifted northward away from the stop line. Subject to proper placement of landscaping, a northbound driver's line of sight of vehicular traffic would actually be improved without pulling across the stop line, because east-west traffic would be farther from the buildings along the south side of the street that would typically obstruct sightlines.

I appreciate your point that keeping bicyclists physically closer to vehicle traffic protects the cyclists from cross-traffic by enhancing their visibility. Perhaps, the proposed trail would work better with the wider (6') landscape strip and tree plantings between the sidewalk and bike trail, and the narrower (2') strip between the vehicle lanes and bike trail.

Two points regarding conflicts with left turning vehicles:
First, if this plan were implemented with two-way traffic, Michigan would need to be converted as well. Such a dual street conversion could be designed to ensure that Michigan accommodates a majority of the traffic currently using these streets, with some perhaps dispersed to Washington Street or 10th Street. In this scenario, traffic would be lighter and likely slower reducing both the quantity and potential severity of conflicts with left turning vehicles.

Last, it should be noted that this plan could be implemented with or without a conversion to two-way vehicular traffic. I would prefer a conversion to two-way because I believe it would benefit neighborhoods by enhance local access and calming traffic. On the other hand, continued one-way traffic would ensure no left turns from New York Street across the bike trail.

I don't understand what you're saying that the sidewalk and landscaping would need to be restored if this was downtown. I thought the sidewalk ordinance updates applied to all commercial (like this), industrial, and multi-family zoned property, but was not part of the CBD Ordinance. Nonetheless, I thought it only applied to new construction.

However, I'd say that the perpendicular parking, partially in the right-of-way, backing over where a sidewalk should be located is a joke. It's an example of the way development has been done in this town for decades; on the cheap and in the interest of the private developer and drivers at the expense of the public environment and pedestrians. A curb, sidewalk, landscaping, and parallel public on-street parking should be constructed.

The sidewalk ordinance is always cited by planners in their staff reports when sidewalks are missing from a site that is seeking rezoning or a variance.

I was thinking of the downtown corner where curbs and a landscape yard replaced parking in the public ROW recently...can't remember the exact location, maybe at Ohio and New Jersey?

The sidewalk ordinance is moot in the areas zoned CBD (which is distinct from the Regional Center, a larger area) since there isn't a street in an area zoned CBD that doesn't have a sidewalk already. There are probably a few streets in the RC without sidewalks but I can't think of any obvious ones.



Amen to that! Sure, if these people left, some middle-class people might get to move in and enjoy the neighborhood, but what would happen to the neighborhoods they would vacate?

That's an interesting take, but this was a middle-class area (and upper-middle) until it really took off in the mid-90's, and I think many of the objecting neighbors are longtime residents.

In the 1980's houses in M-K (other than the estate-style places) were priced affordably for middle-income people, and one could often find a fixer-upper. Because of the desirability of the neighborhood, house prices there started taking off in the 90's, and appreciated at a rate of 8-10% per year from the mid-90's until the real estate peak there in about 2005 (when the property-tax reassessment thing bit hard). The 1995 $150K house that was affordable on a middle-income salary became a $400K house by 2005, perhaps helped by a $35K home-equity-line kitchen and bathroom makeover...but nonetheless, the point is that middle-middle class folks can't afford those houses anymore. Today's older, retiring residents don't leave the houses in bad shape like their parents did, so fixer-uppers are a thing of the past.

Frankly, the area is a "victim" of its own popularity, and of the fact that middle-aged family gentrification is different from the kind that comes from younger childless residents.

Frankly, the area is a "victim" of its own popularity, and of the fact that middle-aged family gentrification is different from the kind that comes from younger childless residents.

This is a nodding tribute to Aaron, quoting myself. :)

This speaks to his point about people in neighborhoods like M-K getting with the program and tolerating increased intensity of use.

Some of the features that make a place hip and cool for younger, childless people (young gentrifiers) are the things that turn off older gentrifiers (middle-aged, i.e. 35-50, families with kids who choose to stay in the city). These are people who do NOT want action and noise in their quiet neighborhood when they are trying to put kids in bed.

In the specific case...the commercial building has existed for decades. The owner is going to pay RE tax on it whether occupied or not. (In this building, it seems as if the new owners have actively driven off tenants to gain higher rents with more-intensive uses.)

The more interesting case was presented almost 20 years ago by the new development across the street. An old doctors building was torn down and replaced by a neighborhood commercial building. The developer was forced to install a greenspace/front yard without parking and to maintain a significant rear buffer. There were operating covenants on the types of businesses and hours of operations, to maintain a neighborhood-intensity development.

Again...I don't see a problem with this kind of proposal on BR Ave., College Ave., 54th or 52nd near the Monon, or 56th & Illinois, as all have always been far more commercial, and people living nearby know what to expect. But on Penn, maintaining neighborhood-level intensity of development is a good thing.

More radical moderation, I suppose. :)

Civic Theatre considering move to Carmel (http://www.ibj.com/civic-theatre-considering-move-to-carmel/PARAMS/article/7058)

Oh, boy :eek:

Too bad it couldn't go back to the IMA facilities - where the new Tobias Theater is located. That was a nice central location for the region. I wonder if there is room for them to fit in there anymore - or is the Tobias too busy now with its film series and speakers series? Unfortunately, I kind of lost touch with Civic Theater when it moved to Marian College - in fact I forgot that it wasn't at the IMA anymore. Sounds like Carmel made a pretty good deal to encourage them to move.

Civic Theatre considering move to Carmel (http://www.ibj.com/civic-theatre-considering-move-to-carmel/PARAMS/article/7058)

Oh, boy :eek:

I was in at least 4 shows at the civic as a kid while it was still at IMA. It was a great theater and I was disappointed to read when it moved. Moving it to carmel will no longer let it be called "Indianapolis Civic Theater" ... I'd rather see it stay in the city.

I saw something I was happy to see today. The big windows of Circle Centre's north end (along Washington St.), west of Carson-Pirie Scott have been livened up considerably. I always hated driving past that prime location - with all of the outdoor restaurants across the street - and seeing the huge, empty "windows" that had nothing in them -- just white background walls. Seemed like a big opportunity lost. They could have been filled with promotional stuff for businesses in the mall, dressed up mannequins, art, basically anything with a little color would have been an improvement.

Anyway - they now have filled them with very large, colorful promotional "art" posters for local cultural institutions. So far - promotions for the zoo, IMA and the Children's Museum are up. Not anything fantastic -- but its a whole lot better than the blank spaces that sat there before. There are still at least two more windows that could have something put in them -- so hopefully that will happen soon too.

I'd also like to see one of the steel art sculptures that were up around downtown this summer, remain along Washington St above the entrance to the underground parking garage. I don't really like the one that was put there this summer - but there are other ones that I liked a lot. My favorite was the one with the four vertical squares that was near Washington and Pennsylvania Streets near Scotty's Brewpub. With an art piece like that - and the upgraded windows, that stretch on the South side of Washington St will be looking much better.

I was wanting some help from anyone who has had an experience with IndyGo or who has an opinion on the service (or suggestions).

I'm a junior visual communications student at the Herron School of Art & Design. I'm doing a design research project on IndyGo trying to find reasons for their slow path to success within the metro and find ways to make the system better through a design/marketing standpoint. I will be presenting my proposal to the board at the end of the semester in a book format. I wanted to ask a few questions.

As a rider or resident of Indianapolis, what kind of audiences do you think IndyGo services target? Do you notice certain demographics or a diverse crowd?

Are you happy with their services? What are the high points and low points?

Do you think IndyGo as an organization is successful compared to other similar sized metro systems?

Finally, are there any suggestions, comments or ideas you would like to share related to IndyGo?

If you could please tell me your name (first is fine) and the common bus route you take (if you use IndyGo's services), also if you would rather respond by email, contact bdquigley@gmail.com.

I really appreciate everyones help!
Thanks.

I saw something I was happy to see today. The big windows of Circle Centre's north end (along Washington St.), west of Carson-Pirie Scott have been livened up considerably. I always hated driving past that prime location - with all of the outdoor restaurants across the street - and seeing the huge, empty "windows" that had nothing in them -- just white background walls. Seemed like a big opportunity lost. They could have been filled with promotional stuff for businesses in the mall, dressed up mannequins, art, basically anything with a little color would have been an improvement.

Anyway - they now have filled them with very large, colorful promotional "art" posters for local cultural institutions. So far - promotions for the zoo, IMA and the Children's Museum are up. Not anything fantastic -- but its a whole lot better than the blank spaces that sat there before. There are still at least two more windows that could have something put in them -- so hopefully that will happen soon too.

I'd also like to see one of the steel art sculptures that were up around downtown this summer, remain along Washington St above the entrance to the underground parking garage. I don't really like the one that was put there this summer - but there are other ones that I liked a lot. My favorite was the one with the four vertical squares that was near Washington and Pennsylvania Streets near Scotty's Brewpub. With an art piece like that - and the upgraded windows, that stretch on the South side of Washington St will be looking much better.

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?ID=37609

I was in at least 4 shows at the civic as a kid while it was still at IMA. It was a great theater and I was disappointed to read when it moved. Moving it to carmel will no longer let it be called "Indianapolis Civic Theater" ... I'd rather see it stay in the city.

Its too bad that Carmel can't organically grow their own art organizations from within its own city limits and/or Hamilton county. Taking existing arts organizations away from the central city where they've existed for decades makes as much sense as giving tax incentives to employers to cross county lines. If this is their goal with the new venue it really isn't improving the quality of life in central indiana as it should.

As a rider or resident of Indianapolis, what kind of audiences do you think IndyGo services target?

People who have no other choice other than riding the bus.


Are you happy with their services? What are the high points and low points?

No.

High:
Bike racks on all buses.

Low:
Buses don't run frequently enough.
Routes stop running to early in the evening.
Uninviting bus stops
No transfer options
No real transit hub
No automated machines to refill a bus card
No GPS tracking


Do you think IndyGo as an organization is successful compared to other similar sized metro systems?

I have no idea, but Muncie has a better bus system.


Finally, are there any suggestions, comments or ideas you would like to share related to IndyGo?

IndyGo should try to attract people who don't have to ride the bus, but WANT to ride the bus. Basically just fix all the low points and this city will have a legitimate transportation system. We deserve it.

As a rider or resident of Indianapolis, what kind of audiences do you think IndyGo services target?

People who have no other choice other than riding the bus.


Are you happy with their services? What are the high points and low points?

No.

High:
Bike racks on all buses.

Low:
Buses don't run frequently enough.
Routes stop running to early in the evening.
Uninviting bus stops
No transfer options
No real transit hub
No automated machines to refill a bus card
No GPS tracking


Do you think IndyGo as an organization is successful compared to other similar sized metro systems?

I have no idea, but Muncie has a better bus system.


Finally, are there any suggestions, comments or ideas you would like to share related to IndyGo?

IndyGo should try to attract people who don't have to ride the bus, but WANT to ride the bus. Basically just fix all the low points and this city will have a legitimate transportation system. We deserve it.

I agree with your criticisms of IndyGo, but I think your response and the entire survey is a royal waste of time.

Indianapolis spends far less on public transportation than cities of comparable size. While I don't think "spend more money" is the answer in every case where public services need to be improved, I certainly believe it is the case with public transit in the city. Unfortunately, I'm 100% certain that no more city funds are going to be allocated to improve public transportation. Indianapolis had decent public transportation 50-60 years ago, but it hasn't had a good public transit system for several decades, and I don't see that changing until and if the majority of residents demand it AND are willing to pay for it. I won't hold my breath.

...but not a huge surprise, either.

Lilly will reorganize and cut jobs to pare costs
Lilly to cut thousands of jobs over 2 years and form 5 business units, lowering costs by $1B
On Monday September 14, 2009, 9:19 am EDT

NEW YORK (AP) -- Drugmaker Eli Lilly & Co. says it will eliminate thousands of jobs and reorganize into five business units in an effort to slash costs and speed up development of potential new drugs.

The Indianapolis company says it will reduce its work force to 35,000 by the end of 2011. It has about 40,500 now, according to Thomson.

Lilly hopes to cut annual costs by $1 billion per year over the same time, and will organize itself into five units: cancer, diabetes, established markets, emerging markets, and Elanco, its animal health business.

Key Lilly products like the anti-psychotic drug Zyprexa will lose patent protection starting in 2011. CEO John Lechleiter believes the company's best path to profit growth involves focusing on its early and mid stage drug candidates.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090914/LOCAL18/909140346/Indianapolis+Downtown+Inc.+keeping+pretty+for+less

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090914/LOCAL18/909140346/Indianapolis+Downtown+Inc.+keeping+pretty+for+less

Funding cuts to not-for-profit marketing organizations like ICVA and IDI, along with Lilly's restructuring, represent the "recession echo".

Lilly job cuts will further hurt the City-County and State budgets.

I agree with your criticisms of IndyGo, but I think your response and the entire survey is a royal waste of time.

It was only about 5 minutes. I'd do it again.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090914/LOCAL18/909140346/Indianapolis+Downtown+Inc.+keeping+pretty+for+less

Like the City couldn't be doing something better with this money?

IDI has a $7.7 million reserve, they're paying their E.D. $200K/yr, and we still need to fund them with taxpayer dollars?

How about a list of what IDI has accomplished for the City of Indianapolis, other than their list of parking lots/garages and list of planned or under construction development projects?

It was only about 5 minutes. I'd do it again.

You took my comments too literally (or perhaps you are being funny).

What I meant was that I don't expect any change to come from the survey. IndyGo, people who use IndyGo, and people who don't use it already know what is wrong with the system and what should be done to improve it. More surveys aren't needed, what is needed is more money. And more money will only come when there is the popular support and political will to pass more funding for public transportation.

kangaroo, they need more money, but they also need a new mindset.

As a rider or resident of Indianapolis, what kind of audiences do you think IndyGo services target? Do you notice certain demographics or a diverse crowd?

I'm a voluntary IndyGo rider, but other than the ICE service, it seems that the only IndyGo "targets" are people with no choice. As a white, (relatively) affluent, car-owner, I would say that the demographics skew far to the opposite on all points.

Are you happy with their services? What are the high points and low points?

High points: buses are reasonably clean and well-maintained, morning timetables are relatively predictable, and I've never felt unsafe on the bus.

Low points: unpredictable service in the afternoon, indifference to timetables (including being ahead, which screws anyone who is there on time), most drivers have no customer service skills and never explain delays or stoppages, and the infrequency of buses exacerbates all of the above.

Do you think IndyGo as an organization is successful compared to other similar sized metro systems?

I have no idea how Indy compares to peer systems. As one of the other posters noted, Bloomington has a much better system in a city only a fraction of the size. Other than that, my experience with transit is in much larger cities such as Chicago and New York. I have no frame of reference for Columbus, Milwaukee, etc.

Finally, are there any suggestions, comments or ideas you would like to share related to IndyGo?

Ideally, increasing frequency of routes and revising the hub-and-spoke route map would make IndyGo much more usable. Automated kiosks would be nice as well. Still, the absolute top near-term priority should be a publicly available GPS tracking system. My understanding is that the buses are GPS-equipped and are tracked by IndyGo, so I can't imagine it would be all that burdensome to let the public in on the information. As I said, reducing time between buses would be ideal, but even staying on the 30 minute rotation, GPS would make the system much more usable. Right now, if I want to stop at CVS on my way to the bus, if I guess wrong it costs me a half hour. This is a no-brainer, but as Aaron has often noted, IndyGo seems to fancy itself in the same category as poor relief and soup kitchens, shortsightedly catering only to those who have no choice. What they don't seem to realize is that catering to those who do have a choice would improve the city as a whole without doing a single thing to damage the interests of those for whom transit is a necessity.

Still, the absolute top near-term priority should be a publicly available GPS tracking system.

I agree with pretty much all of what you said except for that point. I think a very low percentage of the ridership would have any use for such a service due to lack of ability on their end to access it (web-enabled mobile devices, etc.). If the busses would reliably adhere to the published schedules, it wouldn't be necessary, anyway.

As benjaminooo mentioned, Muncie has a very nice bus system. They run 15 minute headways on the busiest routes, 30 minutes on the rest. And the buses always seem to be right on time, never significantly early or late.

I think a very low percentage of the ridership would have any use for such a service due to lack of ability on their end to access it (web-enabled mobile devices, etc.). If the busses would reliably adhere to the published schedules, it wouldn't be necessary, anyway.

Arrrrrgh! But that's the whole point! I agree that a slim minority of current users would have any use for such a service. But as I mentioned, the vast majority of IndyGo users are IndyGo users because they have no other choice! To expand the system, it's important to attract riders who do have a choice. And the GPS system would make the system much more attractive to such people--students, professionals, office workers, and the like.

A bus system that shares lanes with cars and other vehicles is never going to be able to adhere perfectly to the published schedules the way a train system does. A GPS system allows users to check, before leaving home or the office and standing outside in the heat or the cold or the rain, whether the bus is on schedule or is behind.

I agree with pretty much all of what you said except for that point. I think a very low percentage of the ridership would have any use for such a service due to lack of ability on their end to access it (web-enabled mobile devices, etc.).

This simply isn't true. I've seen many areas take advantage of gps data using fairly low tech led boards at bus stops that display the number of minutes until the next bus. An even cheaper alternative is to publish an automated phone number at each bus stop along with the stop number. They can then tell the rider what the wait for the next bus is. Most people have access to a basic mobile phone (or even a pay phone)

This simply isn't true. I've seen many areas take advantage of gps data using fairly low tech led boards at bus stops that display the number of minutes until the next bus. An even cheaper alternative is to publish an automated phone number at each bus stop along with the stop number. They can then tell the rider what the wait for the next bus is. Most people have access to a basic mobile phone (or even a pay phone)

OK, I didn't think of anything along those lines at all. Those are pretty good ideas. For some reason, my mind was stuck on some of the transit-related iPhone apps that I've seen. Things like the LED boards would be a nice improvement. However, I still think the other items JohnM mentioned should be higher priorities, and would go a longer way toward attracting discretionary riders than a GPS system would. Focus on the basics first.

http://blogs.indystar.com/education/2009/09/ips_school_2_na.html :)

http://blogs.indystar.com/education/2009/09/ips_school_2_na.html :)

That's definitely good news! The center for inquiry is one of IPS's strong points. There was even a story about a week ago about a family from (gasp) Fishers sending their kid there.
(Since the state took over the general fund of the public schools they do allow some students to cross township lines)

That's definitely good news! The center for inquiry is one of IPS's strong points. There was even a story about a week ago about a family from (gasp) Fishers sending their kid there.
(Since the state took over the general fund of the public schools they do allow some students to cross township lines)
My wife and I have been living downtown for several years now and are about to have our first baby. We're planning to put roots down and stay downtown for the foreseeable future because of the kind of education our child will be to get at the Center for Inquiry. Despite our strong interest in urban living, absent that kind of educational option we would not be making these plans.

http://blogs.indystar.com/education/2009/09/ips_school_2_na.html :)

I went to the Center For Inquiry from grades 1-8 (I was part of the original group)! It is an outstanding program! It used to be housed at school 92 on east side off of 42nd and Arlington, or so. They now have the downtown location and one in the Broad Ripple area. They really take advantage of the downtown location, we often went on field trips to the Central Library, James Whitcomb Riley's neighborhood, and so on. They've won several education awards and this is another for the shelf.

OK, I didn't think of anything along those lines at all. Those are pretty good ideas. For some reason, my mind was stuck on some of the transit-related iPhone apps that I've seen. Things like the LED boards would be a nice improvement. However, I still think the other items JohnM mentioned should be higher priorities, and would go a longer way toward attracting discretionary riders than a GPS system would. Focus on the basics first.

I agree with everything John M said, but for the top priority regarding GIS info. Sure that would be nice, but how about this for a top priority? Retrain or replace your drivers who are incapable or unwilling to a) stop at the proper locations as requested, and b) provide a sliver of decent customer service. Just the stopping for people would be a good improvement.

Of course, working with City leadership to get sidewalks built along every bus route and providing safe proper bus stop locations, such as posting no parking at bus stops along streets like College Avenue so riders don't have to get on between parked cars (how does that work if you're in a wheelchair).

I've never been in another city where buses pick up and drop off riders in drainage ditches alongside arterial roadways. Never. The first time that IndyGo, or its predecessor, decided that they needed to run a bus along Michigan Road, they should have been actively seeking funding to provide sidewalks from 38th Street to 96th Street.

I went to the Center For Inquiry from grades 1-8 (I was part of the original group)! It is an outstanding program! It used to be housed at school 92 on east side off of 42nd and Arlington, or so. They now have the downtown location and one in the Broad Ripple area. They really take advantage of the downtown location, we often went on field trips to the Central Library, James Whitcomb Riley's neighborhood, and so on. They've won several education awards and this is another for the shelf.

What is the secret to this school's success? Do they have one of those digital signs out front?

GPS would be a huge win. Even large percentages of the poor have cell phones. GPS doesn't require internet access - you can get at information via texting. With a system like IndyGo, with highly unreliable arrival times and long headways, being able to get predictability about when the bus will arrive could save people from having to get to stops way early just to be sure they don't miss the bus.

GPS would be a huge win. Even large percentages of the poor have cell phones. GPS doesn't require internet access - you can get at information via texting. With a system like IndyGo, with highly unreliable arrival times and long headways, being able to get predictability about when the bus will arrive could save people from having to get to stops way early just to be sure they don't miss the bus.

Yes, they should provide better information, but really, a GIS application accessible by the public? This is a system that has never even developed an automated telephone system to find out what time the next bus is coming. I'm talking about a technology that was probably developed in many areas in the 1970s or '80s, with the advent of touch tones. This is the system that until the last year or two never even bothered to post schedules and other route information at bus stops, and even know only provides such information in selected, or perhaps better described as a few random locations.

By the way, my blog is back and running, by that I mean I got around to posting something and intend to make an effort to do so more often, for my own cathartic needs, but you might enjoy an occasional perusing: http://idyllicindy.blogspot.com/

What is the secret to this school's success? Do they have one of those digital signs out front?

Air conditioning.

Idyllc, get with the 2000's. Look up Chicago's Bus Tracker system. It's awesome. New York is also rolling out along with other systems. GPS (not GIS) integration with real time bus operations is here today, not a dream - except in Indy.

750 jobs possibly coming to airport
Republic Airways considering expansion
Updated: Tuesday, 15 Sep 2009, 10:31 PM EDT
Published : Tuesday, 15 Sep 2009, 10:30 PM EDT

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) - Hundreds of new jobs may be on the way to the Indianapolis International Airport. Airport Authority memos show the CEO of Republic Airlines is thinking about relocating 750 positions to Indianapolis.

Republic recently purchased Frontier and Midwest Airlines.

The memos show Republic is considering expansion for maintenance, parts warehousing and reservation center positions.

The Airport Authority Board is expected to hear more about Republic's plans during a meeting on Friday.

Local musician music video in downtown Indianapolis: http://www.youtube.com/user/kjtestin I think Indianapolis is very photogenic :)

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090916/BUSINESS/90916012/Simon+helped+shaped+city++politics++sports

Mel Simon has passed away, I think that it would be a great time to reflect on how much he and Herb changed the city over the years.

I've never been in another city where buses pick up and drop off riders in drainage ditches alongside arterial roadways. Never. The first time that IndyGo, or its predecessor, decided that they needed to run a bus along Michigan Road, they should have been actively seeking funding to provide sidewalks from 38th Street to 96th Street.

To make you feel better, there are plenty of other cities with this phenomenon. Most are in the south, where the development patterns more closely reflect that of Indy.

In theory, it would be great to build sidewalks along major bus routes such as Michigan Road (as well as the few stretches of Martin Luther King that lack them). But keep in mind that Indygo is recalibrating its system of routes all the time based on shifts in demand, so this argument may seem weak to the city. Truth be told, the city should be building sidewalks on all major streets with a certain minimum population density, regardless of whether or not there's a bus route along it. I went to the Infrastructure Advisory Committee meeting a little over a month ago, and I was encouraged by how many people were speaking out about frustration over lack of sidewalks. Two people specifically mentioned Michigan Road.

To make you feel better, there are plenty of other cities with this phenomenon. Most are in the south, where the development patterns more closely reflect that of Indy.

In theory, it would be great to build sidewalks along major bus routes such as Michigan Road (as well as the few stretches of Martin Luther King that lack them). But keep in mind that Indygo is recalibrating its system of routes all the time based on shifts in demand, so this argument may seem weak to the city. Truth be told, the city should be building sidewalks on all major streets with a certain minimum population density, regardless of whether or not there's a bus route along it. I went to the Infrastructure Advisory Committee meeting a little over a month ago, and I was encouraged by how many people were speaking out about frustration over lack of sidewalks. Two people specifically mentioned Michigan Road.

Welcome to Indy. The city without sidewalks!

There are even places downtown where sidewalks disappear. One of the most glaring is along DMLK Jr., where the sidewalk suddenly ends at 9th St., only to reappear at 10th St. That area is so inhospitable to pedestrians, I'm not sure why anyone would WANT to walk that block, but they should at least have the option to do so.

Doubly strange -- there's a large project underway to rebuild significant portions of the sidewalks in that area, but it doesn't appear that they're going fix the omission and put a sidewalk on that block. Apparently they'd rather spend money ripping up and replacing 2 year old concrete on the NE corner of 10th and DMLK than put a new sidewalk in where none exists.

http://www.ibj.com/apartments-near-downtown-canal-slated-for-rehab/PARAMS/article/7086

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090916/BUSINESS/90916012/Simon+helped+shaped+city++politics++sports

Mel Simon has passed away, I think that it would be a great time to reflect on how much he and Herb changed the city over the years.
^^That man, along with his brother, exerted a lot of effort into the revitalization of our city's core and it wouldn't be what it is today without them.

I've always been baffled by the lack of sidewalks here. Most random subdivisions now have sidewalks, and many times those areas have less places to walk to than the older areas that need sidewalks the most. A very lazy, auto-centric approach to planning, I guess.

Air conditioning.

Actually, growing up in IPS, I never had the luxury of air-conditioning in school until I got to Ball State in 2005.

I've always been baffled by the lack of sidewalks here. Most random subdivisions now have sidewalks, and many times those areas have less places to walk to than the older areas that need sidewalks the most. A very lazy, auto-centric approach to planning, I guess.

I think it's a reflection of development patterns being relentlessly auto-oriented from 1965 to 1990 (if not later), which actually isn't that different from most other cities. But there's the added disadvantage of a lack of municipal scrutiny in the pre-Unigov parts of Marion County. You'll notice that the older subdivisions--now often inner-ring and struggling--such as Eagledale, Chapel Hill, or the vast stretch around 38th and Post, all have sidewalks on the inner streets and most have them on the major streets. But low density developments outside of the pre-Unigov boundaries had no regulations and nearly always excluded sidewalks (and often storm sewers). By the late 1980s most subdivisions had them on one side of the street, and by the 1990s they were required to have them, including along the collector streets that provided access...but this only applied to new single family residential developments. Only until the past few years did we see them up the ante, requiring it for all new developments, variances, and new construction following a demolition. But this leaves vast stretches of roads from between 1960 to 1990 or so that have not gotten sidewalks unless there was major road construction or a widening.

Actually, growing up in IPS, I never had the luxury of air-conditioning in school until I got to Ball State in 2005.
Lol. I distinctly remember fond memories of water bottles in the corner of our desks, multiple loud oscillating fans, etc. You had to keep paper towels in your desk to wipe up the condensation from your water bottle, or else it would get your assignments wet. I remember thinking it would get better in high school...it didn't.

Idyllc, get with the 2000's. Look up Chicago's Bus Tracker system. It's awesome. New York is also rolling out along with other systems. GPS (not GIS) integration with real time bus operations is here today, not a dream - except in Indy.

Yeah, GPS, not GIS. My point might not have been clear. I was saying that THIS SYSTEM, IndyGo, doesn't even have an automated phone line (which could've been implemented twenty-plus years ago), let alone an online trip planner (could've been ten years ago), so would really expect them capable of providing real-time tracking information?

To make you feel better, there are plenty of other cities with this phenomenon. Most are in the south, where the development patterns more closely reflect that of Indy.



Oh, the south, that would explain it. Don't get down yonder too much.

mel simon and myles brand both gone on the same day, very sad. hope its not too soon to ask, but is this going to have any effect on the pacers/fever future in indy? (even though the fever might be on their last season regardless)

Actually, growing up in IPS, I never had the luxury of air-conditioning in school until I got to Ball State in 2005.

In my snarky way, that was the point. Dr. White and superintendents before him made a huge deal of the lack of AC in IPS schools as a factor in substandard education generally.

mel simon and myles brand both gone on the same day, very sad. hope its not too soon to ask, but is this going to have any effect on the pacers/fever future in indy? (even though the fever might be on their last season regardless)

One would assume that Herb and Mel had a succession/ownership-continuity plan in place. This shouldn't cause a problem unless the plan is "sell".

Yeah, GPS, not GIS. My point might not have been clear. I was saying that THIS SYSTEM, IndyGo, doesn't even have an automated phone line (which could've been implemented twenty-plus years ago), let alone an online trip planner (could've been ten years ago), so would really expect them capable of providing real-time tracking information?

My understanding is that the buses are tracked via GPS by IndyGo headquarters. I have no idea how easy or difficult it would be, but it doesn't seem that much of a stretch to think that there would be a way to pass that information on to the public.

My understanding is that the buses are tracked via GPS by IndyGo headquarters. I have no idea how easy or difficult it would be, but it doesn't seem that much of a stretch to think that there would be a way to pass that information on to the public.

If they released GPS tracking with the current system it might actually generate more outcry for lack of frequency and late buses, no?

If they released GPS tracking with the current system it might actually generate more outcry for lack of frequency and late buses, no?

I hope so, because that's EXACTLY what IndyGo needs; a swift kick in the ass and a realization of how poor their service really is! :bash:

Here is a question that has probably been asked, and is asked 100% out of ignorance.

What is stopping Indianapolis from opening a rail line from the airport/west side to downtown? I was browsing some things today and happened upon Vancouver and their handy transit system and it got me thinking how Indy could EVER hope to even get close.

I even looked at the aerial view of Indy, and the tracks are in place. Im betting its because they are owned by someone else, used for hauling materials, etc. I noticed that there appear to be two sets of tracks.

Just thinking about how other cities make it pretty easy to get to metro areas via train from their airports. We have so many events in Indy, sure would be nice to get people from the airport to downtown via rail.

This post is born of afternoon lazyness.
thanks

I drove by this morning and saw the old buildings had been razed. I'll be interested to see what goes in there. Ersal Ozdemir of Keystone Construction sure is ambitious. They remodeled the old Lo-Bills on Madison and Hanna (now University Shoppes). The only tenant in there now is a fitness center.

http://www.ibj.com/keystone-plans-madison-avenue-retail/PARAMS/post/6713

Here is a question that has probably been asked, and is asked 100% out of ignorance.

What is stopping Indianapolis from opening a rail line from the airport/west side to downtown? I was browsing some things today and happened upon Vancouver and their handy transit system and it got me thinking how Indy could EVER hope to even get close.

I even looked at the aerial view of Indy, and the tracks are in place. Im betting its because they are owned by someone else, used for hauling materials, etc. I noticed that there appear to be two sets of tracks.

Just thinking about how other cities make it pretty easy to get to metro areas via train from their airports. We have so many events in Indy, sure would be nice to get people from the airport to downtown via rail.

This post is born of afternoon lazyness.
thanks

Perhaps you will be heartened to know that the Mayor of Indianapolis has publicly asked that very question.

We already know how many people (per day, week, month, year) fly in for meetings, trade shows, conventions, and leisure and stay downtown. It does seem a natural for train service.

The numbers actually aren't that good for airport to downtown rail. The Washington St. corridor is a logical one for enhanced transit, and connecting to the airport would be a logical extension if you did it. However, our terminal location makes it very costly to service. You either take a detour of several miles to circle the airport or you have to tunnel under the runway. Neither are attractive options.

My understanding is that the buses are tracked via GPS by IndyGo headquarters. I have no idea how easy or difficult it would be, but it doesn't seem that much of a stretch to think that there would be a way to pass that information on to the public.

I'm not sure, but I think that some folks are missing my point. I'm not saying it would be technologically difficult for IndyGo to do, I'm just saying I have zero expectation that it will actually happen, because, well... I don't know, I guess BECAUSE IT'S INDYGO, AND YOU CAN'T EVEN GET AUTOMATED ROUTE INFORMATION OVER THE PHONE!

Of course, in fairness, when I was in L.A. a year ago, you couldn't get automated route information over the phone there either.

I'm not sure, but I think that some folks are missing my point. I'm not saying it would be technologically difficult for IndyGo to do, I'm just saying I have zero expectation that it will actually happen, because, well... I don't know, I guess BECAUSE IT'S INDYGO, AND YOU CAN'T EVEN GET AUTOMATED ROUTE INFORMATION OVER THE PHONE!

Of course, in fairness, when I was in L.A. a year ago, you couldn't get automated route information over the phone there either.

Oh we get your point, I just don't don't understand the defeatism. Hop in a time machine back to 1979 and tell people that in the year 2009, Indianapolis is preparing to host the Super Bowl in a couple of years. Considering the strides the city has made in the last 30 years, it doesn't seem all that fanciful that we could accomplish some modest improvement in our transit system.

Hey everyone! I was online reading the news and I happened to come across this interesting article and video on downtown Elkhart:

http://elkhartprojectblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2009/09/18/3282826-elkhart-plays-the-downtown-card?chromedomain=elkhartprojectblog

They certainly did a good job on the video I thought.

Hey everyone! I was online reading the news and I happened to come across this interesting article and video on downtown Elkhart:

http://elkhartprojectblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2009/09/18/3282826-elkhart-plays-the-downtown-card?chromedomain=elkhartprojectblog

They certainly did a good job on the video I thought.

Competition? Apparently they have a bar with yummy beer.

www.monopolycitystreets.com

:nuts:

Oh we get your point, I just don't don't understand the defeatism. Hop in a time machine back to 1979 and tell people that in the year 2009, Indianapolis is preparing to host the Super Bowl in a couple of years. Considering the strides the city has made in the last 30 years, it doesn't seem all that fanciful that we could accomplish some modest improvement in our transit system.

Has Indy made a lot of strides in 30 years? I don't know. I haven't been here that long, but most people seem to think it has, so perhaps it has. Haven't most cities improved in the past 30 years. Hosting a Super Bowl is a reward for getting your taxpayers to cough up another several hundred million dollars into the NFL kitty. If hosting the Super Bowl is a sign of progress, then Detroit must be doing better than us.

Transit improvements? I'm all for them. Anyone have a plan for actually making it happen? IndyGo? Mayor's Office? MPO? CIRTA? Skyscraper Bloggers Collaborative? Just let me know when the planning gets started.

idyllic, you hit an interesting point the bears repeating. Defenders of mediocrity always make comparisons against Indy's own past, not against the trend line of what is going on out there in the world. Where was Indy in 1979? Well, where was Charlotte in 1979 and they have a light rail line today.

I do think JohnM is right to keep things in perspective. Indy has come a long way and perfection is a process, not a destination. The real question is not where we are or how we got here. Rather, were do we want to go and can we get there?

http://www.ibj.com/no-field-of-dreams/PARAMS/article/7101

http://www.ibj.com/no-field-of-dreams/PARAMS/article/7101

What's even worse for that area is the thousands of Eli Lilly jobs that will be likely leaving in the near future. Realistically, it may not look that different today then when the Superbowl comes. Tim Dora seems to be especially conservative; he's got some good points but he's also primarily a suburban developer and views things from that mindset. Anybody know any status on the Merrill Street Tower? Or that Ralston Square? I thought those at least looked pretty likely for a while.

That isn't a surprise.
The economy blows, things are bound to suck a little.

Unfortunately, it seems that is all Ballard can do but ask questions. Take some advice: don't hold your breath waiting for answers from this one. So far, the man seems totally inadequate to the task he was elected for. However, in his defense he has inherited a few messes that are in need of a clean up.

Anybody know any status on the Merrill Street Tower? Or that Ralston Square? I thought those at least looked pretty likely for a while.

The Ralston Square site is listed for sale on the broker-developer's website. So apparently no groundbreaking is in the immediate future.

Unfortunately, it seems that is all Ballard can do but ask questions. Take some advice: don't hold your breath waiting for answers from this one. So far, the man seems totally inadequate to the task he was elected for. However, in his defense he has inherited a few messes that are in need of a clean up.

The "messes" Ballard faces are hardly able to be cleaned up by any mayor. The previous three mayors of Indianapolis presided over the city during the greatest expansion of prosperity in US history, interrupted by only two minor recessions (1991 and 2001). When things are growing full-bore, there is little a mayor can do to mess it up.

This mayor neither caused nor can fix the city's three biggest problems: the dark cloud hanging over Lilly, the national economic slowdown, and the overall poor borrowing and lending practices (both residential and commercial) of the past decade.

However, he can put the kibosh on any moves to recapture tax abatements and TIF expenditures initiated in support of Lilly's planned expansions over the last decade...the worst thing to do would be to kick Lilly while they're down.

http://www.ibj.com/no-field-of-dreams/PARAMS/article/7101

When you create a megablock containing a stadium used a couple dozen times a year and a massive parking lot, you shouldn't expect the private sector to respond by somehow turning the surroundings into a vibrant mixed-use neighborhood. The best things that could be done to encourage such development would be to rededicate Merrill Street between the stadium and being replacing the northern portions of the parking lot with a garage(s) with retail/restaurant space on the first floor.

When you create a megablock containing a stadium used a couple dozen times a year and a massive parking lot, you shouldn't expect the private sector to respond by somehow turning the surroundings into a vibrant mixed-use neighborhood. The best things that could be done to encourage such development would be to rededicate Merrill Street between the stadium and being replacing the northern portions of the parking lot with a garage(s) with retail/restaurant space on the first floor.

Or let's go the other way: ban surface parking lots within the inner loop. Instead, bulldoze everything in the SW quadrant south of South St. and west of Illinois and turn it into the "Downtown Parking Zone" by 2012. Turn the whole daggone thing into superblocks of land-banked asphalt. This would greatly facilitate the isolation factor sought by the NFL for the Super Bowl.

It would also allow IndyGo to develop a "Downtown Park N Ride" shuttle from the humongous surface lot into downtown. Not only that, but it would create space for their "Transit Center".

Plus, it would create another revenue stream that could be used to pay for operations at LOSS. Oops, LOS.

:lol:

You will all be happy to know that IndyGo is spending $300,000 on a rider survey:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090922/BUSINESS/90922003/1150/LOCAL0101

You will all be happy to know that IndyGo is spending $300,000 on a rider survey:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090922/BUSINESS/90922003/1150/LOCAL0101

Why not survey NON-riders? Asking people why they don't ride is the key to growth in ridership, and it's the only kind of survey that will avoid confirmation bias.

GREENWOOD, Ind. -- IndyGo said Tuesday that it will end a commuter express route between Greenwood and downtown Indianapolis later this year because of low ridership.

The Greenwood route was the third one funded by a non-renewable Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality grant, IndyGo said.

The route, which began in March, was expected to run for at least three years or until all the funding was used. CMAQ paid about 80 percent of the route's cost.

Two more express routes that link Carmel and Fishers with Indianapolis will continue, but Greenwood's route will end on Dec. 1.

You will all be happy to know that IndyGo is spending $300,000 on a rider survey:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090922/BUSINESS/90922003/1150/LOCAL0101

I like how they say that they will use the info to make decisions on how to grow when money becomes available....

hello... $300K??

I like how they say that they will use the info to make decisions on how to grow when money becomes available....

hello... $300K??

I feel like I should take their survey and answer "stop spending money on surveys and fix the broken system" for every question.

Why not survey NON-riders? Asking people why they don't ride is the key to growth in ridership, and it's the only kind of survey that will avoid confirmation bias.

Yep. It's not that nothing good can come out of the survey, and improving transfer options and the like might attract new riders, but it just doesn't seem to be a primary focus of the current leadership. It's unfortunate, because attracting new "voluntary" riders is the best way to better serve the people who have no choice.

Yep. It's not that nothing good can come out of the survey, and improving transfer options and the like might attract new riders, but it just doesn't seem to be a primary focus of the current leadership. It's unfortunate, because attracting new "voluntary" riders is the best way to better serve the people who have no choice.

Reading this, an idea crossed my mind.

What if there were a "special" SSC meetup arranged, to serve as a focus group session for IndyGo?

Or an online discussion based on answers to the question, "I would ride IndyGo to work if...."

From comments here, I gather that most who participate regularly are pro-transit, but not necessarily "true believer" daily riders willing to completely trade convenience for an IndyGo pass.

I hasten to point out, I'd like to think I'm the exact "next" rider of IndyGo the system should target: I live and work 100 feet from IndyGo stops in Center Township. Home to work is a 15-17 minute drive, but a (minimum) 45-minute bus trip that includes a transfer on Ohio St.

I like how they say that they will use the info to make decisions on how to grow when money becomes available....

hello... $300K??

How is 300K really used for a survey? Like a few years ago, some money was also used around Lucas Oil I think for some data-survey. What I am getting at, what are all the costs for? Clipboards, laptops, lunches, paper, saleries?

How is 300K really used for a survey? Like a few years ago, some money was also used around Lucas Oil I think for some data-survey. What I am getting at, what are all the costs for? Clipboards, laptops, lunches, paper, saleries?

My initial thought was "Really? You don't have any data on where people get on and off the bus? "

You would think that could glean a lot of the same information from the phone calls that their customer service reps field saying something like, "I live at X, and I need to get to Y by time of day Z. Do you have bus routes that can do this?"

I was once a call center rep taking these calls (not for IndyGo), but I'm sure they get the same type of calls. That should tell you to where your riders are trying to get.

I hasten to point out, I'd like to think I'm the exact "next" rider of IndyGo the system should target: I live and work 100 feet from IndyGo stops in Center Township. Home to work is a 15-17 minute drive, but a (minimum) 45-minute bus trip that includes a transfer on Ohio St.

This results from two aspects of IndyGo's system: a focus on radial lines from downtown, and long headways. I'd like to point out that every proposed light rail system replicates the first part of this equation. As I've pointed out many times, the highly dispersed nature of trips in the Indianapolis region makes it a bad fit for radial spoke type systems.

As I predicted. Starting then stopping transit service hurts the long term prospects for transit locally.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090923/LOCAL18/909230376/1001/ARCHIVE/Does+end+of+routes+mean+end+of+line+for+mass+transit?

As I predicted. Starting then stopping transit service hurts the long term prospects for transit locally.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090923/LOCAL18/909230376/1001/ARCHIVE/Does+end+of+routes+mean+end+of+line+for+mass+transit?

Ridership on the busiest line (Fishers) this summer: about 500 per working day. And I'm not sure if that's one-way or round-trip count. Even if it's round-trip, it's about 10-12 busloads of people.

I suspect that once I-69 construction starts in earnest, there could be a much-increased demand. Perhaps a small portion of the construction budget could be used for "congestion mitigation" via bus.

I'm curious about the true cost per passenger to run the northern ICE routes at their current bus capacity loads (almost certainly less than 100% full). Is it dramatically higher than the $3 fare they currently charge?

As I predicted. Starting then stopping transit service hurts the long term prospects for transit locally.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090923/LOCAL18/909230376/1001/ARCHIVE/Does+end+of+routes+mean+end+of+line+for+mass+transit?

So sad....the quote from the article hits the nail right on the head.

"Indianapolis is always stating they want to be a world-class city. They can never hope to be a world-class city without a decent public transportation system."

How fitting this is for the city without sidewalks. So sad. I just wanna cry.

I took it on myself to research Ivy Tech's proposal for St. Vincent Hospital a bit further, especially after reading with frustration that Indiana Historic Landmarks Foundation seemed content with the facade preservation compromise. So I talked to a representative there as well as at the Department of Metropolitan Development. Here's what I learned:

- The $1 sale to Ivy Tech was contingent on it being used as part of the expansion of the campus, and that the reuse involved, at the very least, saving the facade of the building.
- The rep Historic Landmarks was particularly frustrated because he perceived that Ivy Tech interrupted an RFP process that could have found private developers to reuse the hospital for housing (such as Paramount Realty) after learning that the City and DMD would be content with a mere facadectomy. However, according to the rep at DMD, this is not true: Ivy Tech completed the RFP process seeking student housing, and none of the respondents could show proof of financing, so those plans failed.
- St. Vincent site is part of a comprehensive expansion plan that includes several other sites, including the underutilized parking lot that someone else mentioned That parking lot (on the NE corner of the block, I believe) is part of a proposed transit center that will include a parking garage and a drop-off point for city buses. Also in the expansion plan is a proposed student union in the area.
- Historic Landmarks and DMD are pushing Ivy Tech to salvage more than the front facade and perform a triple-sided facadectomy, if it is deemed financially feasible.

It offers mild consolation, but at least it suggests that Ivy Tech didn't fully renege on its original promise, if what I was told is true. It does, however, still indicate a certain lack of backbone within DMD and the City in not pushing complete preservation or adaptive re-use further, or not requesting a postponement until a more favorable market cycle. Thus, the old St. Vincent Hospital could prove a victim of tight credit.

So sad....the quote from the article hits the nail right on the head.

"Indianapolis is always stating they want to be a world-class city. They can never hope to be a world-class city without a decent public transportation system."

How fitting this is for the city without sidewalks. So sad. I just wanna cry.

You either have to laugh or cry, which is why I'm often very sarcastic. It's more enjoyable to laugh.

I don't see much civic leadership on these issues of sidewalks and public transportation. Without it, I don't see any significant strides being made.

I took it on myself to research Ivy Tech's proposal for St. Vincent Hospital a bit further, especially after reading with frustration that Indiana Historic Landmarks Foundation seemed content with the facade preservation compromise. So I talked to a representative there as well as at the Department of Metropolitan Development. Here's what I learned:

- The $1 sale to Ivy Tech was contingent on it being used as part of the expansion of the campus, and that the reuse involved, at the very least, saving the facade of the building.
- The rep Historic Landmarks was particularly frustrated because he perceived that Ivy Tech interrupted an RFP process that could have found private developers to reuse the hospital for housing (such as Paramount Realty) after learning that the City and DMD would be content with a mere facadectomy. However, according to the rep at DMD, this is not true: Ivy Tech completed the RFP process seeking student housing, and none of the respondents could show proof of financing, so those plans failed.
- St. Vincent site is part of a comprehensive expansion plan that includes several other sites, including the underutilized parking lot that someone else mentioned That parking lot (on the NE corner of the block, I believe) is part of a proposed transit center that will include a parking garage and a drop-off point for city buses. Also in the expansion plan is a proposed student union in the area.
- Historic Landmarks and DMD are pushing Ivy Tech to salvage more than the front facade and perform a triple-sided facadectomy, if it is deemed financially feasible.

It offers mild consolation, but at least it suggests that Ivy Tech didn't fully renege on its original promise, if what I was told is true. It does, however, still indicate a certain lack of backbone within DMD and the City in not pushing complete preservation or adaptive re-use further, or not requesting a postponement until a more favorable market cycle. Thus, the old St. Vincent Hospital could prove a victim of tight credit.
Great research. Thanks for getting some more info and filling in the blanks.

You either have to laugh or cry, which is why I'm often very sarcastic. It's more enjoyable to laugh.

I don't see much civic leadership on these issues of sidewalks and public transportation. Without it, I don't see any significant strides being made.

The downtown trail is probably their answer to sidewalks.

You either have to laugh or cry, which is why I'm often very sarcastic. It's more enjoyable to laugh.

I don't see much civic leadership on these issues of sidewalks and public transportation. Without it, I don't see any significant strides being made.

Let's be a part of the solution, to use a timeworn cliche. Making snarky comments gets us nowhere, even if it best captures how some of us feel. Organizations like People for Urban Progress (http://www.peopleup.org/) and Health by Design (http://www.healthbydesignonline.org/) are thirsting for more volunteers; these organizations didn't exist even five years ago.

The establishment of the Infrastructural Advisory Committee represents a far greater recognition of the severity of the problem than we have seen from any leadership in the past. We have at some points had a greenway system that surpasses that of most cities, yet we still can't seem to catch on to the basic idea of sidewalks and transit.

Did anyone see the letter to the editor in the Star today? Very thoughtfully written about that transit issue and media silence.

A while back the star ran a segment on what the community thought should be put on the Market square site. The ideas ran the gamut from a 30 story statue of Peyton .... :sly: to simple mixed use midrise development. The proposals i saw made me cringe so i took it upon myself to design my own proposal. After 3 or 4 months of sketching in my free time i finally inked and finished my idea.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a215/Treno_nightlife_IX/MarketSquareSiteDrawing-2.jpg

A couple things i should point out. The large blank white squares are intended for large scale advertising boards ( think times square). I figure showcasing advertising space on this scale would be a decent way to add a new revenue stream to a development of such a scale while adding to the overall pedestrian experience of the development. Also i would shoot for LEED certification with such a project ... i think its irresponsible not to strive for this new 21st century standard.
Please excuse the obvious white-out, i had a few issues with the pens, and my own indecisiveness got the better of me after i started using the ink. Throw me some thoughts and opinions, I would really like to hear some feedback. Thanks !

A while back the star ran a segment on what the community thought should be put on the Market square site. The ideas ran the gamut from a 30 story statue of Peyton .... :sly: to simple mixed use midrise development. The proposals i saw made me cringe so i took it upon myself to design my own proposal. After 3 or 4 months of sketching in my free time i finally inked and finished my idea.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a215/Treno_nightlife_IX/MarketSquareSiteDrawing-2.jpg

A couple things i should point out. The large blank white squares are intended for large scale advertising boards ( think times square). I figure showcasing advertising space on this scale would be a decent way to add a new revenue stream to a development of such a scale while adding to the overall pedestrian experience of the development. Also i would shoot for LEED certification with such a project ... i think its irresponsible not to strive for this new 21st century standard.
Please excuse the obvious white-out, i had a few issues with the pens, and my own indecisiveness got the better of me after i started using the ink. Throw me some thoughts and opinions, I would really like to hear some feedback. Thanks !

I think your design shows what exactly needs to be done at the MSA site. It needs to be a multi-facated, mixed use 24 hour development. Also, it needs to be that of a "village type" plaza but much taller of course. Great job! :cheers:

New uses sought for 99-year-old structure that was once Indianapolis' City Hall City needs developers' ideas on what to do with its former City Hall

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090925/LOCAL18/909250360/-1/frontpagecities/New+use+sought+for+former+City+Hall+building

I think its a really great sketch. I love this type of work. it looks pretty neat.

But as development goes, I see it staying gravel for a while yet

New uses sought for 99-year-old structure that was once Indianapolis' City Hall City needs developers' ideas on what to do with its former City Hall

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090925/LOCAL18/909250360/-1/frontpagecities/New+use+sought+for+former+City+Hall+building

What I find most interesting is the idea to turn it into a performing arts center with an adjecent building to the north. It'd surely give Carmel's faux pas performance arts center a run for its money. I'm glad we're not the only one with these progressive ideas. :)

A while back the star ran a segment on what the community thought should be put on the Market square site. The ideas ran the gamut from a 30 story statue of Peyton .... :sly: to simple mixed use midrise development. The proposals i saw made me cringe so i took it upon myself to design my own proposal. After 3 or 4 months of sketching in my free time i finally inked and finished my idea.
...

That is sexy! It puts the 'artistry' back into architecture. I love it. :)

Also, good news about the city looking for good uses for the old City Hall. I was in there a lot when the library was there. It is such a grand and magnificent space; it's a shame it's been left to just sit there all this time. Hopefully something good (i.e. creative and inventive) can come from it.

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2009/09/25/developer-plans-student-housing-along-canal/PARAMS/post/7273

A local developer has filed plans to build a new apartment complex designed for college students a few blocks east of the Central Canal. The plans for the southeast corner of Capitol Avenue and St. Clair Street call for 30 apartment units in a four-story building on what is now a vacant lot owned by Hulman and Co. The proposal by Jeff Sparks of locally based Di Rimini LLC is scheduled to come before a hearing examiner on Oct. 15. An elevation drawing filed with the city, shown above, says the architect is locally based JT Designers Inc. The working name of the project is Sarojo Commons; Sarojo combines the first names of each of the developer's children.


http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/blog/propertylines/Student-housing.JPG


Looks like some street level retail involved in the project which is good to see. This area could really start to see some nice neighborhhod densification with the Cosmo going in not too far away and if anything ever happens with the Paramount.

What I find most interesting is the idea to turn it into a performing arts center with an adjecent building to the north. It'd surely give Carmel's faux pas performance arts center a run for its money. I'm glad we're not the only one with these progressive ideas. :)

How is it faux? It isn’t any more faux than the old city hall.

I like the idea of the Old City hall being reused as an arts center, as long as it is properly preserved and its current style respected (meaning no contemporary sculptures or artwork on the façade) but it would be wonderful if it could be reused as a public building.

The sketch, I love it! It is modern yet has an organized sort of art-deco spice to it! I actually think this structure would contribute to the beauty of downtown.
I’m not horribly into the base, but that is simply because of its fashion.
I love the towers, just beautiful! :)

How is it faux? It isn’t any more faux than the old city hall.

I like the idea of the Old City hall being reused as an arts center, as long as it is properly preserved and its current style respected (meaning no contemporary sculptures or artwork on the façade) but it would be wonderful if it could be reused as a public building.

The sketch, I love it! It is modern yet has an organized sort of art-deco spice to it! I actually think this structure would contribute to the beauty of downtown.
I’m not horribly into the base, but that is simply because of its fashion.
I love the towers, just beautiful! :)

It's faux simply because it, along with the rest of Carmel, is being designed in the sense of early 20th century architecture. While there's nothing wrong with that style of architecture, this is now the early 21st century. We shouldn't be caught up in nostalgia of the past 'nor should we be designing buildings that are "supposed" to look old but really are constructed of cheap brick and EIFS. It's an insult to the real historic buildings of older areas. But hey, that's just my humble opinion.

http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/blog/propertylines/Student-housing.JPG

I think it is ugly. It looks and sounds like something from Santa Fe, and there aren't enough windows on the capitol side... The Cosmo is much more attractive than this building.

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2009/09/25/developer-plans-student-housing-along-canal/PARAMS/post/7273

A local developer has filed plans to build a new apartment complex designed for college students a few blocks east of the Central Canal. The plans for the southeast corner of Capitol Avenue and St. Clair Street call for 30 apartment units in a four-story building on what is now a vacant lot owned by Hulman and Co. The proposal by Jeff Sparks of locally based Di Rimini LLC is scheduled to come before a hearing examiner on Oct. 15. An elevation drawing filed with the city, shown above, says the architect is locally based JT Designers Inc. The working name of the project is Sarojo Commons; Sarojo combines the first names of each of the developer's children.


http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/blog/propertylines/Student-housing.JPG


Looks like some street level retail involved in the project which is good to see. This area could really start to see some nice neighborhhod densification with the Cosmo going in not too far away and if anything ever happens with the Paramount.

Eww!

Look at the left end of the Capitol Avenue elevation and picture it with the right end of the Saint Clair elevation. This is what you'll see as you travel south on Capitol Avenue. What is with the nearly blank walls? What is with the windowless 4th Floor along Capitol? This makes Firehouse Square look like a great downtown development. Why are there no windows on the ground floor; only solid doors? Because the entire first floor is dedicated to garages. It's like the new Waverly building, except a little better since it will at least have doors on the street, even if they don't get used much. You never know, someone could come out of one, which might make a street a tad bit safer.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the little one-story retail appendage to actually be built. Would it really be that difficult to actually complete the corner of the project?

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2009/09/25/developer-plans-student-housing-along-canal/PARAMS/post/7273

A local developer has filed plans to build a new apartment complex designed for college students a few blocks east of the Central Canal. The plans for the southeast corner of Capitol Avenue and St. Clair Street call for 30 apartment units in a four-story building on what is now a vacant lot owned by Hulman and Co. The proposal by Jeff Sparks of locally based Di Rimini LLC is scheduled to come before a hearing examiner on Oct. 15. An elevation drawing filed with the city, shown above, says the architect is locally based JT Designers Inc. The working name of the project is Sarojo Commons; Sarojo combines the first names of each of the developer's children.


http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/blog/propertylines/Student-housing.JPG


Looks like some street level retail involved in the project which is good to see. This area could really start to see some nice neighborhhod densification with the Cosmo going in not too far away and if anything ever happens with the Paramount.

Ok, to show that I can be positive. This project has potential. Just fill in the St. Clair and Capitol corner as well as the other corners. This would just require that you sell/rent a few units without attached garages. Increase the window to wall ratio, and maybe bring the % of EIFS down from 80% to about 0%.

Ok, to show that I can be positive. This project has potential. Just fill in the St. Clair and Capitol corner as well as the other corners. This would just require that you sell/rent a few units without attached garages. Increase the window to wall ratio, and maybe bring the % of EIFS down from 80% to about 0%.

Great suggestions, but is some of this feasible given the city's antiquated zoning and off-street parking requirements? Won't every unit need at least one off-street parking space?

maybe bring the % of EIFS down from 80% to about 0%.

Apparently no one has ever been southwest of St. Louis.

Anywhere you ever see the acronym "EIFS", please do the mental exercise of substituting "stucco", since that's what it is.

And then drive by the St. James Apartments at 21st and Meridian...which are stucco...and which are listed on the National Register. There's only a tiny bit of brick on the exterior of the St. James, and most of it is painted to match the stucco.

Then look closely at the "Tudor" style houses all over town. Usually the exterior treatments above the brick first floor, and often the porches and eaves, are stucco.

Take a trip to the West Coast sometime, or to the Southwest (Albuquerque comes to mind). Stucco is a very common exterior material for residential buildings. And not low-end ones, either.

Someone, please explain exactly why stucco exteriors are bad. Are the anti-stucco folks saying that everything should be brick or stone?

fill in the St. Clair and Capitol corner.

That's one of the few places one could do that, since the "clear sight triangle" requirements would be moot on that corner. But most other places in town, one would need a variance to do so. Especially if one-way streets are converted to two-way. :lol:

Apparently no one has ever been southwest of St. Louis.

Anywhere you ever see the acronym "EIFS", please do the mental exercise of substituting "stucco", since that's what it is.

And then drive by the St. James Apartments at 21st and Meridian...which are stucco...and which are listed on the National Register. There's only a tiny bit of brick on the exterior of the St. James, and most of it is painted to match the stucco.

Then look closely at the "Tudor" style houses all over town. Usually the exterior treatments above the brick first floor, and often the porches and eaves, are stucco.

Take a trip to the West Coast sometime, or to the Southwest (Albuquerque comes to mind). Stucco is a very common exterior material for residential buildings. And not low-end ones, either.

Someone, please explain exactly why stucco exteriors are bad. Are the anti-stucco folks saying that everything should be brick or stone?

I'm sorry, there are differences between Stucco and EIFS and your blanket word substitution request is incorrect and misleading.

It's faux simply because it, along with the rest of Carmel, is being designed in the sense of early 20th century architecture. While there's nothing wrong with that style of architecture, this is now the early 21st century. We shouldn't be caught up in nostalgia of the past 'nor should we be designing buildings that are "supposed" to look old but really are constructed of cheap brick and EIFS. It's an insult to the real historic buildings of older areas. But hey, that's just my humble opinion.

There isn’t anything wrong with borrowing fashions, my only issue is when people try to recreate a society of the past (you know, family values and all that :sly: ).
Our city hall was designed to mimic the fashions of ancient times, but only on an aesthetic level, not a social or cultural level and that is why I wouldn’t call this structure fake, because if it is then so is the city hall.
This is the 21st century, but it is ignorant for a civilization to simply abandon a heritage in the name of progress when it isn’t necessary. There is a difference between nostalgia and taking good aspects of the past for the present but a lot of people just want to jump back in time because they think for some reason there were no problems back then.
I agree though, if you are going to build in classical, use good materials or it will simply look cheap.

The design of the Sarojo deffinelty needs some work, but I am happy to see that there is some development going on that will bring people into the area and has some first floor retail. Hopefully this is just a first stage rendering and it will get some improvements made similar to what was done with the Cosmo. The first renderings left much to be desired and the final product has turned out fairly well.

There deffinely needs to be some improvements made as several have mentioned. Keeping my fingers crossed.

The design of the Sarojo deffinelty needs some work, but I am happy to see that there is some development going on that will bring people into the area and has some first floor retail. Hopefully this is just a first stage rendering and it will get some improvements made similar to what was done with the Cosmo. The first renderings left much to be desired and the final product has turned out fairly well.

There deffinely needs to be some improvements made as several have mentioned. Keeping my fingers crossed.
I said this over on Property Lines, but comparing Sarojo to the Cosmo is not a flattering juxtaposition. The original Cosmo sketches were much, much better than Sarojo:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s289/corrnd/Cosmo%20Canal/cosmocircle2.gif

That original Cosmo design was just 4 stories -- Sarojo should buy that design and call it a day.

Oh we get your point, I just don't don't understand the defeatism. Hop in a time machine back to 1979 and tell people that in the year 2009, Indianapolis is preparing to host the Super Bowl in a couple of years. Considering the strides the city has made in the last 30 years, it doesn't seem all that fanciful that we could accomplish some modest improvement in our transit system.

Except that getting the Super Bowl is not an accomplishment - it just means we are suckers.

My initial thought was "Really? You don't have any data on where people get on and off the bus? "

You would think that could glean a lot of the same information from the phone calls that their customer service reps field saying something like, "I live at X, and I need to get to Y by time of day Z. Do you have bus routes that can do this?"

I was once a call center rep taking these calls (not for IndyGo), but I'm sure they get the same type of calls. That should tell you to where your riders are trying to get.

They don't answer the phones at Indygo.

That's one of the few places one could do that, since the "clear sight triangle" requirements would be moot on that corner. But most other places in town, one would need a variance to do so. Especially if one-way streets are converted to two-way. :lol:

I don't believe there are any clear sight triangle requirements in the CBD zoning ordinance. That's likely how there are buildings on most corners, even new buildings like the Maxwell.

I don't believe there are any clear sight triangle requirements in the CBD zoning ordinance. That's likely how there are buildings on most corners, even new buildings like the Maxwell.

It depends on which CBD it is, I believe there are 3, CBD1 doesn't have the sight triangle, 2 and 3 do I believe. I believe this may be zoned CBD2.

I'm sorry, there are differences between Stucco and EIFS and your blanket word substitution request is incorrect and misleading.

I didn't say they were the same. The differences are technical, not visual; for style/visual purposes they appear the same. Detecting the difference between stucco and EIFS requires close inspection.

From a block away it's impossible to tell the difference; the complainers seem to be making it a style issue.

I believe this may be zoned CBD2.

It is CBD-2.

Per the IndyStar
http://www.indystar.com/article/20090928/BUSINESS/90928026/Downtown+apartment+plan+put+on+hold

A private developer's plan to build retail and residential projects next to two government-run housing towers Downtown has been put on hold.

Flaherty & Collins, an Indianapolis apartment developer, won't proceed with its projects until the Indianapolis Housing Agency finds funding for a proposed $29 million remodeling of the Lugar and Barton towers.

Denied federal tax credits for the remodeling this spring, the agency will re-apply in December, said its executive director, Rufus Bud Myers.

Myers said the agency's board doesn't want to move ahead with a proposal by Flaherty & Collins to developer[sic] the vacant land around the two towers until the remodeling plan for the towers is funded.

"The board put it on hold until they know the plan for the towers," which house elderly and disabled residents, Myers said.

"We're comfortable with and understand they want to have a clear plan on what to do with the towers before they go ahead and developer[sic] the vacant ground," said Mike Davis, vice president of development and finance for Flaherty & Collins.

The developer was picked to by the agency to develop about two acres of empty space next to the towers, located several blocks from each other on Massachusetts Avenue and Fort Wayne Avenue.

Our city hall was designed to mimic the fashions of ancient times, but only on an aesthetic level, not a social or cultural level and that is why I wouldn’t call this structure fake, because if it is then so is the city hall.
This is the 21st century, but it is ignorant for a civilization to simply abandon a heritage in the name of progress when it isn’t necessary. There is a difference between nostalgia and taking good aspects of the past for the present but a lot of people just want to jump back in time because they think for some reason there were no problems back then.


Your criticism of revivalist architecture is perfectly valid, and I would to a large extent agree with you. But I would have to argue that sociocultural mimicry was precisely the intent of the architects of Washington DC's early structures. It wasn't simply aesthetic--they wanted to indicate through the neoclassical vernacular the Greek and Latin democratic traditions that this country hoped to revive.

Maybe a little off topic, but of the top 5 companies to receive VC (venture capital) funding so far in 2009, ExactTarget of Indianapolis was number 7.

http://www.pehub.com/51256/top-vc-recipients-of-2009-so-far/

It is CBD-2.

No clear sight triangle requirement found for CBD-2. Apparently, one parking space is required for each 800 square feet of net adjusted floor area.

Maybe a little off topic, but of the top 5 companies to receive VC (venture capital) funding so far in 2009, ExactTarget of Indianapolis was number 7.

http://www.pehub.com/51256/top-vc-recipients-of-2009-so-far/

Well then it wouldn't exactly be of the top 5 then, would it? Just giving you a hard time... couldn't resist. ;-)

The Facts: http://www.indystar.com/article/20090929/LOCAL18/909290340/City+invites+offers+for+water+utility

Tully's Take: http://www.indystar.com/article/20090929/NEWS08/909290341/

Let's discuss this ladies and gentlemen.

The Facts: http://www.indystar.com/article/20090929/LOCAL18/909290340/City+invites+offers+for+water+utility

Tully's Take: http://www.indystar.com/article/20090929/NEWS08/909290341/

Let's discuss this ladies and gentlemen.


If this means better streets and sidewalks in Indianapolis, then let's get started! Please start with my street! :)

If the deal is done right, I'm all for it. I particularly like the idea of selling the water utility to Citizens Gas, which is a public non-profit, and seems to be well-managed. They better not sell to Veolia, which has mismanaged the hell out of the water co. already. There are a lot of variables, like just how much money will go into infrastructure projects, but it could definitely be a big win.

If this means better streets and sidewalks in Indianapolis, then let's get started! Please start with my street! :)

I doubt it would mean that. If there were any benefit, it would seem to be smaller increases in water/sewer bills. I guess that could translate into lower resistance to tax increases to improve streets and sidewalks.

I understand that government isn't always the most efficient, but I have a hard time believing that a private company, or a public non-profit (?), Citizen's, is going to provide the same level of service with $1.6 Billion less in expenses.

The question to ask in any privatization type operation is where the value is being generated from. If you can't put your finger on exactly where the value in the transaction is, then you are probably just, in effect, mortgaging the future revenue stream. If you want to do that, better to just go to wall street and issue conventional bonds pledged to the revenue stream.

Example: How did the Toll Road Lease create value? Answer:

- Tolls went up significantly
- Minor cost savings from running like a business, ETC
- Foreign buyers way overpaid at the peak of the bubble

You certainly can't hang your hat on the buyer overpaying. So where will the value come from? That's the question to answer. If someone says "efficiencies", then we should have a clear understanding of which efficiencies, e.g., how many jobs will be eliminated, lower purchasing costs, etc. and why we think those are reasonable.

Also, of far greater importance than spending money on streets is actually rethinking what the streets ought to be. Repaving what we have now isn't going to do much to change the game, frankly.

My company is in the outsourcing business, incidentally. Why do clients outsource to us?

- We contractually guarantee predictable costs (risk hedge, which has value)
- We will manage to the contract and avoid service level creep (e.g., a profit motivated vendor is more likely to say No to internal demands for higher service levels than senior management wants).
- Labor arbitrage. Alas, work is typically relocated to offshore location at significantly lower cost.
- Economies of scale. We have multiple clients on our infrastructure, giving us the ability to make investments to gain efficiencies, fixed costs vs. variable costs, etc. Typically our volumes are far higher than any individual client could generate.

These are four examples.

The new Urban Times website is absolutely killer now! :cheers:

http://www.urbantimesonline.com/

The new Urban Times website is absolutely killer now! :cheers:

http://www.urbantimesonline.com/

Nice, clean looking site. Looks might iMOCA might get a new home in Fletcher Place: iMOCA signs on for Virginia Avenue development (http://www.urbantimesonline.com/?p=759)

http://www.urbantimesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/OCT09_imoca.jpg

Not a bad looking building.

The question to ask in any privatization type operation is where the value is being generated from. If you can't put your finger on exactly where the value in the transaction is, then you are probably just, in effect, mortgaging the future revenue stream.

Without a shred of cynicism, I can safely say that "mortgaging the future revenue stream" was a favorite tax-relief tactic of the two previous mayors of Indianapolis. Goldsmith gained a windfall just by aggressively refinancing old debt at lower rates: same monthly payment supported more debt, and thus more miles of street repaving and sidewalk rebuilding. (See: "Building Better Neighborhoods")

So Tully's wrong: it's not game-changing or new, at least for those of us who've been around the block a couple of times. Goldsmith already outsourced the sewers and (some) trash collection and snowplowing. Peterson bought and mortgaged the water utility and then outsourced its management.

The only thing different here is demanding an upfront payment in return for the "annuity" of water and sewer bill collections. It's not operational, it's financial engineering, and the vague "savings" and "efficiencies" have more to do with interest-rate arbitrage than actual operational savings. We've all seen what happens when financial engineering goes awry (the CIB and Waterworks variable-rate debt deals were disasters).

And taxpayers will still be stuck with payments on the debt issued for existing infrastructure (sewers and the purchase of the water company), unless debt service for all that goes with the privatization deal. This is like borrowing money to buy a depreciating asset (say, a car), then "selling" right to rent out the car to a car-rental company for an upfront payment. You're still on the hook for the original note if you don't use the upfront payment to pay off the original loan.

I took Indygo's bus rider survey this morning. There was only one question that was pertinent to this forum. It was this:

What is the one thing you would improve about Indy Go Service?

- earlier start time
- later end time
- increased bus frequency
- easier transfers
- better pedestrian access

I chose increased frequency.

Many of the rest of the questions were more geographic in nature: where are you going, where did you board, how did you get to the bus stop, etc. There was one question that was basically repeated (wonder what that cost).

What is the one thing you would improve about Indy Go Service?

- earlier start time
- later end time
- increased bus frequency
- easier transfers
- better pedestrian access


All of the above!

That's what I thought as well. It was almost unfair that they left out the "all of the above" option.

You go Ablerock!..... http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2009/09/29/regions-bank-joins-the-skyline/PARAMS/post/7306

"Purdue student: Chase Tower is the 38th tallest building in America (which is saying something considering the number of "skyscrapers" in NYC and Chicago alone) and 133rd in the world. It is the tallest building in the Midwest outside of Chicago and Cleveland. She may not be much to look at but she's definitely a skyscraper and you're definitely something else."

The Cadillac Ranch is going in to Union Station...

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091001/BUSINESS/91001028&s=TimeStampDescending&page=2#pluckcomments

Hmmmm .... Well - its definitely a huge space -- and will stretch all the way from the Red Eye Cafe to the Slippery Noodle -- which is a good thing since that whole area is empty now. I don't know if an "Urban Cowboy" bar will go over well though. I thought that was the 80's --- but I guess the way these things cycle around -- maybe country bars with mechanical bulls are coming back "in". I'm also really glad to see Kilroy's opening downtown. With those two bars coming in during the next few months - there aren't too many vacant spaces left in the Wholesale District. Another new business coming in is "Amrosia Centro" restaurant (where BW3's used to be and the Cajun place.) They are working on the interior of Ambrosia and it looks excellent. Very warm and Italian -- with fireplaces and other beautiful upgrades to the space.

I didn't say they were the same. The differences are technical, not visual; for style/visual purposes they appear the same. Detecting the difference between stucco and EIFS requires close inspection.

From a block away it's impossible to tell the difference; the complainers seem to be making it a style issue.

I'm sorry but I can tell a difference from a mile away.

I'm sorry but I can tell a difference from a mile away.

I'd agree that it's often easy to guess, depending on a building's apparent age, style and use.

Most stucco in Indianapolis is decades old and shows some bows, cracks, and patches. EIFS was mostly used on strip malls around here until lately.

There's a house in my neighborhood, same approximate age as mine, that's had a facelift. I suspect it's EIFS, but from only 40 feet away on the sidewalk it's tough to tell. I can think of one or two formerly stucco houses in the Forest Hills neighborhood that got EIFS facelifts or additions in the past 5 or 10 years, but I don't think most people could tell which ones they are.

I guess I just don't have the attitude that it's the worst building surface material ever.

You guys are splitting hairs. To the vast majority of people, it doesnt look that much different from one another.

Ill be honest, until I started coming around here, I didnt know the difference. cdc is right. I bet if you took a survey of random people in downtown Indy on any given day, the response would be the same and most people would ask, "What is EIFS?"

Actually --- I've never known what EIFS stands for. I know what it looks like -- but do the letters "EIFS" stand for something? Thanks for any input.

Dude, don't you have google?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exterior_Insulation_Finishing_System

EIFS got a bad name back in the '70's (?) when poor early versions of it had major problems, leading to major home repairs. Also, it's use in cheap strip malls, low end hotels and other buildings gives it a declasse air. People who use EIFS are often looking to save a buck, and that mentality usually permeates the project, leading to EIFS to be blamed for an overall stinginess and poor design.

I wouldn't have a problem with EIFS done right, but too often that's not the case.

Completely unrelated to development, but I am very pleased to announce that Chicago has FAILED in its effort to attract the 2016. Serves 'em right for trying to talk down to other cities AND their political issues.

Completely unrelated to development, but I am very pleased to announce that Chicago has FAILED in its effort to attract the 2016. Serves 'em right for trying to talk down to other cities AND their political issues.

I guess they're not the Monster of the Midways anymore.

I was impressed after reading this story today.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091002/LOCAL/91002011/Indy+sports++green++for+football++hoops+events

Just goes to show you that there is a lot any one of us could do to help make our city that much nicer.

Completely unrelated to development, but I am very pleased to announce that Chicago has FAILED in its effort to attract the 2016. Serves 'em right for trying to talk down to other cities AND their political issues.

As opposed to the winning city, which, fortunately, has no major problems with crime, broad swaths of entrenched poverty, and corruption. But it is a far more dramatic setting than flat-as-a-board Chicago.

As opposed to the winning city, which, fortunately, has no major problems with crime, broad swaths of entrenched poverty, and corruption. But it is a far more dramatic setting than flat-as-a-board Chicago.

Took the words right out of my mouth. "Yeah, cuz Rio de Janeiro is friggin' paradise, right?"

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091002/BUSINESS/91002028/-1/frontpagecities/Crowne+Plaza+to+hook+into+rebuilt+convention+center

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091002/BUSINESS/91002028/-1/frontpagecities/Crowne+Plaza+to+hook+into+rebuilt+convention+center
There's already an elevated walkway (used to connect to an upper level concourse around the RCA Dome) so this is really just an upgrade of that walkway with a direct connection to the Convention Center. I wonder if that increases the count of hotel rooms directly connected to the ICC or if they were already included based on the open-air connector.

Good news in my book.

Completely unrelated to development, but I am very pleased to announce that Chicago has FAILED in its effort to attract the 2016. Serves 'em right for trying to talk down to other cities AND their political issues.

Right. Because having a worldly event within a few hours of Indianapolis while bringing an economic boost to Indiana was a horrible, horrible idea. I don't want the world's eyes on the midwest, they might think it's more than corn fields. Let all of America be deprived of hosting a prestige event because we're angry at how people post here on skyscrapercity.com *rolls eyes*

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009910020386

Completely unrelated to development, but I am very pleased to announce that Chicago has FAILED in its effort to attract the 2016. Serves 'em right for trying to talk down to other cities AND their political issues.

I agree with you.....sort of.

It would have been good for Indiana and Indianapolis if Chicago got the games because there would likely have been money spent to upgrade infrastructure like the Gary Airport and passenger rail lines in NW Indiana. Indy may have gotten to host some qualifying events in soccer or another sport. Hotel rooms across the northern part of the state would have been booked solid for a few weeks.

However, I am happy that Chicago lost because the people of that city are the biggest snobs in the Midwest and think they shit ice cream. They look down on Indiana and Indianapolis. Chicago sports fans are already among the worst in the country and the Olympics would have turned them into even bigger dickheads.

As opposed to the winning city, which, fortunately, has no major problems with crime, broad swaths of entrenched poverty, and corruption. But it is a far more dramatic setting than flat-as-a-board Chicago.

The Brazilian government is committing much more $$$$ toward the games than the U.S. would have for Chicago. A new high speed rail line between Rio and Sao Paolo is going to be built in preparation for the Olympics along with dramatic local transit expansion in Rio.

I think it is good that the IOC is using the Olympics to help transform and improve cities in the developing world. Just look at all the much needed investment Beijing got because of the Olympics: new subway lines, massively expanded airport, and a high speed rail line to Tianjin.

The Brazilian government is committing much more $$$$ toward the games than the U.S. would have for Chicago. A new high speed rail line between Rio and Sao Paolo is going to be built in preparation for the Olympics along with dramatic local transit expansion in Rio.

I think it is good that the IOC is using the Olympics to help transform and improve cities in the developing world. Just look at all the much needed investment Beijing got because of the Olympics: new subway lines, massively expanded airport, and a high speed rail line to Tianjin.

Good point. One could easily assert (and no doubt many have) that some of that $$$$ Brazil is using could more effectively have gone to housing improvement and poverty reduction domestically. Too me that seems like a straw man argument because any nationality could have used money for poverty reduction instead of boosting its Olympic infrastructure. I just can't help but think from having been there that Rio de Janeiro is going to have to overcome significant hurdles to make it a sufficiently appealing city for hosting a mega-event like this. Crime and poverty are major factors. But hats off to the city for being the first in South America to host the Olympics.

There are compelling studies on the aftermath of Olympics at determining whether they are a successful economic development tool. Seoul and Barcelona were incredible successes and have yielded lasting benefits. Montreal was a white elephant and the taxpayers are STILL paying for some of the venues thirty years later, even as they begin to decay. Atlanta was among the least successful Olympics as far as staging an event goes and leaving a positive impression of the city, and yet they had embedded long-term plans for the infrastructure and redevelopment that have more than provided a return on investment, so the economic development strategy was a success. Athens hosted a strong Olympics but developed no long-term plans, so apparently many of the buildings are already dilapidated and being used as squatter settlements by the Romani people. Interesting stuff.

Its not like the IOC helps pay for all of those improvements - so I don't agree that the IOC "is using the Olympics to help transform and improve cities in the developing world". It will be paid for by the people of Rio and Brazil, not by the IOC. Also - I think NapTown boy is just stomping on poor Chicago when its down. A bad case of Schadenfreude if I've ever seen one. (I learned that word from Arenn.)

Its not like the IOC helps pay for all of those improvements - so I don't agree that the IOC "is using the Olympics to help transform and improve cities in the developing world". It will be paid for by the people of Rio and Brazil, not by the IOC.

But, like the NFL owners, the IOC has the secret powers that allows it to convey the opportunity on a host city or region. As American Dirt suggests, what the host city makes of the oppotunity is entirely up to them.

As Brazil is a semi-socialist state with a charismatic/narcissistic leader who is eager to play a larger-than-life role on the world stage, it is likely that the games will be used as an international showpiece for his regime. Whether the national government uses the opportunity to change Rio's structural poverty and high crime is an open question.

The wealthy folks who populate international events seldom venture from the playgrounds of the wealthy, so there's no real imperative to do anything but create a "safe zone" in Rio 2016. Whether it's done by police-state tactics or by actual change is an open question that will take the next six and a half years to answer.

Breaking ground with a $1.6 billion plan to tame water

By Sandy Bauers

Philadelphia, PA (October 1, 2009)- Philadelphia has announced a $1.6 billion plan to transform the city over the next 20 years by embracing its stormwater- instead of hustling it down sewers and into rivers as fast as possible. The proposal, which several experts called the nation's most ambitious, reimagines the city as an oasis of rain gardens, green roofs, thousands of additional trees, porous pavement, and more.

All would act as sponges to absorb- or at least stall- the billions of gallons of rainwater that overwhelm the city sewer system every year... "This is the most significant use of green infrastructure I've seen in the country, the largest scale I've seen," said Jon Capacasa, regional director of water protection for the Environmental Protection Agency, which has the final say on whether the plan passes muster. "We commend Philadelphia for breaking the ice," he said.

The plan's complex funding formula would raise rates somewhat but also attract grants and encourage private investment. Further, the Water Department says the city's greening would result in more jobs, higher property values, better air quality, less energy use, and even fewer deaths- from excess heat.

The plan is a radical departure from the highly engineered tunnels and sewage plant expansions cities have traditionally opted for. "This is the most significant use of green infrastructure I've seen in the country, the largest scale I've seen," said Jon Capacasa, regional director of water protection for the Environmental Protection Agency, which has the final say on whether the plan passes muster. "We commend Philadelphia for breaking the ice," he said.

For the full story with illustrations, go here (http://http://actrees.org/site/stories/breaking_ground_with_a_16_billion_plan_to_tam.php?tag=news)

The way of the future, and I applaud Philadelphia for being forward-thinking.

Thats interesting...

this link demonstrates it pretty good
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/gallery/20090927_Breaking_ground_with_a__1_6_billion_plan_to_tame_water.html

http://www.spiritmag.com/city_profiles/article/meet_indianapolis/

Sundays Chicago Tribune had a good page section on Indianapolis and things to do. It was actually a good piece. I think it was in travel. Arenn, did you see it?

Sundays Chicago Tribune had a good page section on Indianapolis and things to do. It was actually a good piece. I think it was in travel. Arenn, did you see it?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/travel/chi-1004-indyoct04,0,5430098.story

Sorry, I don't read the Chicago Tribune except for an online headline scan. I did just click the link. What I found amusing was that headline is "Indianapolis is not a sleepy town anymore", but the photo is of a deserted canal. Nice piece though.

^^ I thought the article was a joke, It doesn't even appear as though the writer left chicago. Any one who understands how to use a search engine could have found all that information. All of those "things to do" are branded with the city, there's no mention of broad ripple, or any depth about the other cultural districts ... or the ART MUSEUM ?!?!? hello ? Its laughable. There's no "experiencing indy" in this writing. Perhaps being a fan of Hunter s. Thompson and the gonzo style i expect more of a story in my journalism. But c'mon that picture is years old. They couldn't even find a photographer to come snap a few shots. ... Lame.

^^ I thought the article was a joke, It doesn't even appear as though the writer left chicago. Any one who understands how to use a search engine could have found all that information. All of those "things to do" are branded with the city, there's no mention of broad ripple, or any depth about the other cultural districts ... or the ART MUSEUM ?!?!? hello ? Its laughable. There's no "experiencing indy" in this writing. Perhaps being a fan of Hunter s. Thompson and the gonzo style i expect more of a story in my journalism. But c'mon that picture is years old. They couldn't even find a photographer to come snap a few shots. ... Lame.

This is not journalism. It's travelogue, a puff piece by a freelancer, put in the "news"paper strictly so the sales staff can sell ads for Indianapolis attractions.

It's just like the puff pieces in every newspaper's travel sections. And like the ones in airline magazines. Their purpose is to sell the glossy image a city's convention and visitor's association is peddling.

Yeah, I stopped after reading the line about "one of America's truly walkable cities" on par with New York or San Francisco. Those travel pieces usually make the BS a little more subtle.

Lol. I figured I'd strike a nerve with some folks.

For Chicago, I appreciated that it was not full of slams. That is kinda what I was getting at. Sure, there could have been alot more put in the article, could have mentioned Mass Av as well, but the flack Indy and the state gets from Chicago, I thought that it was good. How sleepy is the city compared to say 25 years ago?