People are not going to walk along streets with no sidewalks and risk getting killed. Autocentric cities have fatter people for a reason. An environment hostile to walking will result in an environment where people don't walk.

Why should it be hard to get sidewalks and less autocentric development here? Other cities in this very country have much better balance in transportation but not Indianapolis- where you are immobile if you don't have access to a private automobile.

I wasn't talking about walking along Allisonville Road, Michigan Road, Binford Boulevard, Brookville Road, or any of the other former state highways inside 465 where one does risk getting killed as a pedestrian. I was talking about walking along residential streets in "Old Indianapolis" residential neighborhoods that have existed in their present state for 55-100 years.

I certainly do not perceive a threat to life walking along the not-so-busy streets in my neighborhood, ones that connect to the streets that do have sidewalks. Kids at the end of my block have a portable backboard near the street and I frequently turn the corner to find a basketball game in progress on the street. It's a shared space; I slow down, they move. No one's afraid, no one gets hurt, and there's no cussing or bird-flipping. (We're neighbors.)

---

This discussion raises a related major issue in urban development and redevelopment: fear/perception of safety.

Here's a description of a place where I do a fair amount of shopping: a busy intersection in a walkable neighborhood where there's lots of pedestrian traffic. There's a yoga studio, an art space, a children's boutique, a credit union branch with an ATM, a grocery store, a barbershop, a gas station/c-store, and some apartments above retail. There's a fire station and schools nearby (public, Catholic, and charter), several churches, and lots of residential and commercial development activity is going on in the area. Sounds nice, right?

And here's the punch line: it's 10th & Rural.

I'd bet your mental picture changed a lot. Possibly with good reason. Some people who go there look right past the things I described. They see only the boarded and empty buildings, the busy bus stops, and people who look a lot different from them, one or two of whom spout nonsense and approach passersby for money. People think of all the headlines and TV news bites that mention violent crime on "the near east side". And they are afraid.

I wasn't thinking of 10th and Rural when I was reading your description of your neighborhood above --- but - when I read your second description of the neighborhood (your last paragraph) I didn't think it was very accurate of my image of 10th and Rural either. I don't think of boarded up and empty buildings; I don't think of people waiting at bus stops (usually most of the people are walking along the sidewalks); I don't think of people who look different from me; I don't think of people approaching me for money (or spouting nonsense to me); I don't think of an area with violent crime either. I think of a generally lower income neighborhood that is undergoing some changes and is seeing lots of new construction.

Heartland Film Festival taking 5,000 sq. feet of first floor space in the Murphy Arts Center in Fountain Square. Sounds good -- although I hope it is as interactive as possible with the street - and isn't just an office space that becomes a "dead space" along Virginaia Ave. The story talks about a public screening room. That could be nice if they would regularly show interesting movies in the space. Here's the story from Cory Schouten's IBJ "Property Lines" Section:

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2011/05/05/heartland-taking-storefront-space-in-murphy-art-center/PARAMS/post/26989

Jos. A. Bank locating new store downtown at 10 E. Washington:

(From the May 6, 2011 Indianapolis Business Journal)

Men's store Jos. A. Bank plans downtown location

Men's clothing chain Jos. A. Bank plans to open a store at Meridian and Washington streets downtown in a much-needed vote of confidence for street-level retail in the area.

The shop is set to take 4,000 square feet in the former home of H&H Mart at 10 E. Washington St., providing downtown with a standalone men's store for the first time in more than a decade. Downtown is flush with restaurants, but few clothing retailers operate outside the nearby Circle Centre mall.

The Jos. A. Bank store, the chain's sixth in central Indiana, would become an anchor of a redevelopment project led by two principals in locally based Summit Realty Group.

The project calls for 19 apartments and at least three large spaces for street-level shops or restaurants spread over two renovated buildings and a vacant lot immediately east of the King Cole Building.



At first, when I read the location as the corner of Meridian and Washington Streets, I thought this might be going into the site where Borders Books was -- but instead, it is the first piece in the revitalization of the buildings across the street. Hopefully the Borders site will get filled too in the near future - maybe with another retail business or two. It sure is nice to see the block of Washington St between Meridian and Pennsylvania Streets - particularly on the north side of the street - finally beginning to shape up.

If these projects all do well -- hopefully before long, that last really prime core CBD spot may finally be developed with a major project. I'm talking about the parking lot to the east of the BW3. That spot is big enough for a major building. Maybe a nice mixed use tower with 30+ floors. Parking could be underneath and on the southern half of the lot (along Pearl Street) on the first through sixth floors. Retail on the first and second floors along Washington Street. Maybe one primary office use could go on floors 3 - 10 or so --- then maybe a 180 room hotel on floors 11 - 18 (lobby on first floor), with apartments and condos on floors 19 through 34. (?)

There hasn't been anything said about that prime lot in decades - that I'm aware of. The last thing I remember was when Jim Kittle was talking about putting a 41 story residential building there - that was called Symphony Towers back in the late 80's. I'm not sure what happened to it -- but it never happened. A building there could not be too tall, because it can't cast a shadow on the Circle. Hopefully, being a good block away -- a 30 - 35 story building could fit on the site that wouldn't cause any shadow problems.


Anyway --- Here's the full IBJ story on the Jos. A. Banks plans:

http://www.ibj.com/mens-store-jos-a-bank-plans-downtown-location/PARAMS/article/27043

Anything on that lot comparable in size to the Barnes & Thornburg building would be fantastic.

The project at 10 E. Washington though is awesome. Glad to see the renovation

Re: East Washington from Meridian to Penn. This block has experienced a rather dramatic turn around in the last decade, with some recent good and bad news. Three new restaurants on or near the block have just been announced, Jos. A. Bank, and improvements to several of the existing buildings.

The recent closing of Borders was unfortunate but had less to do with the location and more to do with the changing retail book and CD markets. The BW3 exterior mangled the ground-level of a rather attractive low-rise art deco building, and is unforgivable and should be corrected. (That occurence might alone point to an inept MDC in need of reform.) As GP mentioned, the best thing that could happen on these blocks is building along the southside of Washington. The best use is clearly a structure that increases the number of area residents; it's fundamental to supporting this urban district economically and culturally.

I wasn't thinking of 10th and Rural when I was reading your description of your neighborhood above --- but - when I read your second description of the neighborhood (your last paragraph) I didn't think it was very accurate of my image of 10th and Rural either.

That's exactly my point. It's better than most people think, no matter whether they're predisposed "for" or "against" older city neighborhoods.

One minor correction: I actually live a couple of miles from 10th & Rural. But I have a strong connection to Pogue's Run Grocer.

I have been following this discussion, and I have noticed what I think is a bit of an omission regarding how many people choose to stay fit.

Yes, walking and staying active throughout the day is ideal, and I do so myself. However, most people who want to stay fit, even those who live in extremely pedestrian-friendly neighborhoods, set aside time each day to work out, either at home or at a gym. I know many people who live in car-centric areas who are in great shape because they exercise indoors. Also, an individual's diet plays an important role in maintaining overall good health and physical fitness. Walking certainly doesn't make up for eating crap, and eating too much of it, all day long.

I certainly acknowledge that creating walkable neighborhoods can encourage a more healthy community; however, just putting down sidewalks does not in and of itself necessarily mean people will go out and walk, or walk enough to get meaningful exercise, nor does it mean they will choose to eat better or to live an overall healthier lifestyle.

This is not to say that I oppose efforts to make neighborhoods more pedestrian-friendly. In fact, I encourage them, and I love projects like the Cultural Trail and HARMONI's pedestrian improvements in the "Midtown" neighborhoods. However, walking trails, "traffic calming" medians and intersections, wider sidewalks, and the like will not prove to be a panacea for unhealthy lifestyles, nor does the lack of such public amenities prevent people from staying healthy.

I think it is important to present a realistic picture of the community benefits of pedestrian infrastructure improvements in an era of limited public funds. I don't think most people have general objections to the maintenance of existing sidewalks, or even the gradual installation over a period of time of sidewalks in residential areas where they were never built. However, I do believe attempts to oversell the benefits of pedestrian improvements, especially when proposing more ambitious projects, such as the Cultural Trail (which was quite fortunate it did not have to rely on local tax funding), will cause people to view them as boondoggles, and lead to opposition to even genuinely worthwhile projects.

You're correct that healthy lifestyles involve more than just walking, and that people who are really dedicated to be in good shape will find a way to get exercise regardless of whether they live in a walkable neighborhood. However, that's no reason to undersell the benefits of providing well designed sidewalks, trails, bike paths, etc. Even the mild exercise provided by increased walking can have significant health benefits. Another important consideration is how many young, educated, talented people move away from Central Indiana or choose not to come here based upon their preference to live in a community with vibrant urban neighborhoods. Are we missing out on a lot of young workers who would contribute significantly to our economy if not for their preference for such cities as Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, Denver or Austin?

I recall a recent article touting positive news that more young people were moving downtown. I think it will be noteworthy to see if the 2010 Census shows a turnaround in the long noted "brain drain" from Indiana.

Just drove past the new live music place about to open in Fountain Square. They have their new sign and a nice looking black awning up on Prospect Street. Its pretty much across the street from Radio Radio. The text on the awning says "Revolucion Cafe". It also has a cool protruding sign with a red star. Looks very good. I'm not sure when its going to open -- but hopefully pretty soon. It makes for a nice addition to Fountain Square.

Regarding the Trailside on Mass Avenue -- the lower level parking area is being dug and seems to be moving along pretty well. Maybe about three-fourths of the area has been dug, I'd say.

Does anyone know how much rent will be going for at Trailside?

Or... do they have a leasing office open yet?

Thanks!

Urban Times: http://goo.gl/zviFk

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This just in: Mass Ave to be reconstructed this summer


The RebuildIndy project is coming to Mass Ave, with a major repaving project set to begin immediately after Memorial Day.

In addition to a complete replacement of both lanes of traffic from the mouth of Mass Ave at New York Street to 10th Street, the $1.2 million project will include a considerable amount of sidewalk and curb replacement.

Jeremy Cashman, project manager for the city’s Department of Public Works, told a group of stakeholders at a May 4 meeting that the extensive project will also focus on drainage issues along the commercial corridor, which has been traditionally plagued by pooling water in parking areas.

He said the project will be staged 24 hours a day, with much of the grinding of existing pavement taking place during overnight hours. Lane closings will be limited to one lane at a time, generally one block at a time. He said if work is being done on two blocks at the same time, those blocks will not be contiguous.

The project will include:

- 4 miles of pavement lanes over the six-block stretch, including curbside parking areas.

- 3,115 linear feet of concrete curb (with preservation of the historic limestone curbing where it still exists).

- 3,700 square yards of new sidewalk.

- 700 square yards of curb ramps in compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act.

- New stylized crosswalks at intersections not involved in the Cultural Trail. The new crosswalks will include full-color renditions of the Mass Ave logo.

The project will also include 3,400 linear feet of conduit, installed in cooperation with the Mass Ave Placemaking Effort in allow for future lighting projects, such as lighting of trees along the route.

Cashman said the project will also include resurfacing of stretches of Walnut and North streets which were torn up during the Cultural Trail project.

Other elements of the project include improvements to pedestrian walk/don’t walk signals. Cashman added that every effort would be made to allow access to Mass Ave shops during sidewalk reconstruction.

The RebuildIndy project is financed by the proceeds of the $425 million transfer of the city’s water and wastewater systems to Citizens Energy Group in 2010. From its implementation through last fall, the city had completed about $87 million of infrastructure improvements through the RebuildIndy initiative.

A bunch of new Amazon distribution center jobs in Indianapolis to be announced today.

Online retailer Amazon repays Indiana sales tax policy

Amazon.com is planning to open a third large distribution center with hundreds of jobs in tax-friendly Indiana, finding refuge from other states that have attempted to force the online retail giant to collect sales tax.

Seattle-based Amazon is announcing today that it plans to open a 900,000-square-foot Internet order fulfillment center in Indianapolis this summer but gave few other details. It declined to disclose the facility's precise location.

Company officials said the facility will create hundreds of jobs. That figure could go higher, considering that an existing Amazon fulfillment center in Whitestown has 1,200 full-time workers. Another in Plainfield opened with 350.

Like the existing centers, the new Indianapolis facility is expected to hire hundreds of additional seasonal workers, particularly around the busy Christmas season.

Full story from 5/9/11 Indianapolis Star here:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110509/BUSINESS/105090329/Online-retailer-Amazon-repays-Indiana-sales-tax-policy

FYI: The Potbelly's restaurant is now open on the Circle. There was a big crowd there last Friday. The outdoor seating is nice -- and crucial - because there isn't much seating room inside.

Studios at the Waverley is looking better and better as the height and density increases

^^ Definitely changes the feel when you come under the RR tracks on East street. The building is up to four floors now. Anyone know if that is as tall as it is supposed to get?

Urban Times: http://goo.gl/zviFk

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This just in: Mass Ave to be reconstructed this summer


The RebuildIndy project is coming to Mass Ave, with a major repaving project set to begin immediately after Memorial Day.

In addition to a complete replacement of both lanes of traffic from the mouth of Mass Ave at New York Street to 10th Street, the $1.2 million project will include a considerable amount of sidewalk and curb replacement.

Jeremy Cashman, project manager for the city’s Department of Public Works, told a group of stakeholders at a May 4 meeting that the extensive project will also focus on drainage issues along the commercial corridor, which has been traditionally plagued by pooling water in parking areas.

He said the project will be staged 24 hours a day, with much of the grinding of existing pavement taking place during overnight hours. Lane closings will be limited to one lane at a time, generally one block at a time. He said if work is being done on two blocks at the same time, those blocks will not be contiguous.

The project will include:

- 4 miles of pavement lanes over the six-block stretch, including curbside parking areas.

- 3,115 linear feet of concrete curb (with preservation of the historic limestone curbing where it still exists).

- 3,700 square yards of new sidewalk.

- 700 square yards of curb ramps in compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act.

- New stylized crosswalks at intersections not involved in the Cultural Trail. The new crosswalks will include full-color renditions of the Mass Ave logo.

The project will also include 3,400 linear feet of conduit, installed in cooperation with the Mass Ave Placemaking Effort in allow for future lighting projects, such as lighting of trees along the route.

Cashman said the project will also include resurfacing of stretches of Walnut and North streets which were torn up during the Cultural Trail project.

Other elements of the project include improvements to pedestrian walk/don’t walk signals. Cashman added that every effort would be made to allow access to Mass Ave shops during sidewalk reconstruction.

The RebuildIndy project is financed by the proceeds of the $425 million transfer of the city’s water and wastewater systems to Citizens Energy Group in 2010. From its implementation through last fall, the city had completed about $87 million of infrastructure improvements through the RebuildIndy initiative.

I know this is a long shot but Please Please Please replace head-in parking along Mass Ave with parallel parking. With the newly available space, sidewalks could be expanded, trees planted and street amenities added. This would be the single most transformative thing the city could do improve this district. The existing streetscape/sidewalk configuration is severely diminished as a result of the existing parking configuration.

I'm fully expecting cries claiming that this will reduce the number of available parking spaces in the area and as a result would be ill advised. While it is true that a parallel parking configuration would reduce the number of on-street parking spaces the trade off would be a sufficient and respectable streetscape. The reduced number of on-street spaces could be replaced by structured parking in one or more mixed-use parking garages. The current sidewalk configuration suffers from insufficient tree canopy (zero trees in front of head-in parking spaces), insufficient walking, gathering and outdoor dining space and grade issues. Add to that inconsistent and cheap street lighting and traffic masts, few pedestrian amenities etc.

Look to other examples such as Madison Wisconsin's State Street to see similar streets with much better streetscapes.

Does anyone know who makes decisions regarding streetlights in Indianapolis, IPL, City Planning? Our street lights leave much to be desired compared to other cites.

I know this is a long shot but Please Please Please replace head-in parking along Mass Ave with parallel parking. With the newly available space, sidewalks could be expanded, trees planted and street amenities added. This would be the single most transformative thing the city could do improve this district. The existing streetscape/sidewalk configuration is severely diminished as a result of the existing parking configuration.

I'm fully expecting cries claiming that this will reduce the number of available parking spaces in the area and as a result would be ill advised. While it is true that a parallel parking configuration would reduce the number of on-street parking spaces the trade off would be a sufficient and respectable streetscape. The reduced number of on-street spaces could be replaced by structured parking in one or more mixed-use parking garages. The current sidewalk configuration suffers from insufficient tree canopy (zero trees in front of head-in parking spaces), insufficient walking, gathering and outdoor dining space and grade issues. Add to that inconsistent and cheap street lighting and traffic masts, few pedestrian amenities etc.

Look to other examples such as Madison Wisconsin's State Street to see similar streets with much better streetscapes.


Is that even possible under the new parking agreement? Doesn't the city have to pay a large fee if it reduces the number of spaces?

I'm sure that everybody has already heard about the rash of arson fires last night. It seems that one of the people in the house on Prospect and State died from their injuries. Here's (http://www.indystar.com/article/20110510/NEWS/110510001/Fire-kills-one-investigators-check-10-suspicious-blazes?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com) the latest news.

I know this is a long shot but Please Please Please replace head-in parking along Mass Ave with parallel parking. With the newly available space, sidewalks could be expanded, trees planted and street amenities added. This would be the single most transformative thing the city could do improve this district. The existing streetscape/sidewalk configuration is severely diminished as a result of the existing parking configuration.

I'm fully expecting cries claiming that this will reduce the number of available parking spaces in the area and as a result would be ill advised. While it is true that a parallel parking configuration would reduce the number of on-street parking spaces the trade off would be a sufficient and respectable streetscape. The reduced number of on-street spaces could be replaced by structured parking in one or more mixed-use parking garages. The current sidewalk configuration suffers from insufficient tree canopy (zero trees in front of head-in parking spaces), insufficient walking, gathering and outdoor dining space and grade issues. Add to that inconsistent and cheap street lighting and traffic masts, few pedestrian amenities etc.

Look to other examples such as Madison Wisconsin's State Street to see similar streets with much better streetscapes.

Back-in slant parking might be a good compromise. It would increase the sidewalk/tree space a little, it would definitely improve maneuvering and traffic flow, and it wouldn't reduce the available parking by more than one or two spaces per block.

Does anyone know who makes decisions regarding streetlights in Indianapolis, IPL, City Planning? Our street lights leave much to be desired compared to other cites.

I think that's a DPW call.

Do you mean that the street light fixtures are bad, or that there are too few or too many? I was at a neighborhood meeting last night where one resident said there weren't enough.

I'm sure that everybody has already heard about the rash of arson fires last night. It seems that one of the people in the house on Prospect and State died from their injuries. Here's (http://www.indystar.com/article/20110510/NEWS/110510001/Fire-kills-one-investigators-check-10-suspicious-blazes?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com) the latest news.

Wow, hadn't heard that. When people die from arson fires it's criminal and tragic.

Picky question for the assembled masses: on which side of town is 945 North Dearborn? According to the Star article it's either near north side, Fountain Square, or near south side. BZZZZT. The correct answer is "near east side". Likewise, Kemper House: BZZZZT. The correct answer is "downtown". None of the fires was on the near north side, which starts at the interstate loop just north of Kemper House.

The story should have referred to a widespread series of apparent arsons in "downtown and near-downtown neighborhoods" without calling out an incomplete and inaccurate list of neighborhoods. Apparently the newspaper has fired all its experienced editors, since it's evident no one's asking reporters the important questions (who, what, where, when, how) before they throw up stories.

Throw up being the operative terms? ;-)

Reverse Angle parking is going to be implimented along Michigan from East to NJ this summer. I consider that a step in the right direction at least. Should be nice to see that once it is complete. Always thought that would have been a good idea for mass ave too. It's rough backing out of those spaces sometimes.

Throw up being the operative terms? ;-)

Reverse Angle parking is going to be implimented along Michigan from East to NJ this summer. I consider that a step in the right direction at least. Should be nice to see that once it is complete. Always thought that would have been a good idea for mass ave too. It's rough backing out of those spaces sometimes.

My point is that the streetscape is terrible. The convienience of drivers should be a secondary concern.

My point is that the streetscape is terrible. The convienience of drivers should be a secondary concern.

On the part of the street that is used for driving and parking? Safety of maneuvering should be the primary concern there.

I proposed a way to improve both...provide a more complete street: more sidewalk and/or tree planting area, better parking, little lost parking (and so, little cost to the city under the Wonderful Parking Contract terms).

Maybe a really good long-term solution would be some kind of a district parking garage integrated into development on the Fire HQ site. Until then, I don't believe in mass removal of parking on Mass Ave.

This article in today's Indy Star gives a nice update and synopsis of the large re-development effort in Speedway. This project along with the revitalization of the near East Side along 10th Street gives me some hope for the future of urban Indianapolis.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011105100323

Urban Times: http://goo.gl/zviFk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
This just in: Mass Ave to be reconstructed this summer


The RebuildIndy project is coming to Mass Ave, with a major repaving project set to begin immediately after Memorial Day.

In addition to a complete replacement of both lanes of traffic from the mouth of Mass Ave at New York Street to 10th Street, the $1.2 million project will include a considerable amount of sidewalk and curb replacement.



This is great news. Mass Ave desperately needs some TLC.

On the part of the street that is used for driving and parking? Safety of maneuvering should be the primary concern there.

I proposed a way to improve both...provide a more complete street: more sidewalk and/or tree planting area, better parking, little lost parking (and so, little cost to the city under the Wonderful Parking Contract terms).

Maybe a really good long-term solution would be some kind of a district parking garage integrated into development on the Fire HQ site. Until then, I don't believe in mass removal of parking on Mass Ave.

I'm so glad that Hoss brought up this issue. When I read the article about resurfacing, I really thought that this was a perfect opportunity to improve the Mass Ave streetscape / pavement configuration, but a reasonable change that balances the businesses' (and parking contractor's) need for on-street spaces with the need for wider sidewalks and trees, as well as a safer street for drivers. I think a conversion to reverse angle parking would accommodate all of these interests, with very minimal parking loss and this would be a great time to take advantage of the renegotiated ability of the City to eliminate some metered spaces without penalty.

The article made it sound as though DPW was telling people what's going to happen, rather than seeking input. Does anyone know the best people to contact to try to see if this is possible?

^^ Idyllic: Check your private messages for a suggested DPW contact.

Thats a great idea idyllic. It would be nice if there was a public input forum fro DPW where ideas are heard and considered. A place where we could lodge ideas like hey narrow that road! or HEY, turn those 1 ways back into 2 ways!

;)

I'm so glad that Hoss brought up this issue. When I read the article about resurfacing, I really thought that this was a perfect opportunity to improve the Mass Ave streetscape / pavement configuration, but a reasonable change that balances the businesses' (and parking contractor's) need for on-street spaces with the need for wider sidewalks and trees, as well as a safer street for drivers. I think a conversion to reverse angle parking would accommodate all of these interests, with very minimal parking loss and this would be a great time to take advantage of the renegotiated ability of the City to eliminate some metered spaces without penalty.

The article made it sound as though DPW was telling people what's going to happen, rather than seeking input. Does anyone know the best people to contact to try to see if this is possible?

^^ Idyllic: Check your private messages for a suggested DPW contact.

I haven't been on here in a while, but it's great to see you guys are as active as ever. Keep up the intelligent discussions and even more importantly the activism, for those of us watching from afar, it makes us feel good that smart progressive people are engaged in defining the future of Indy.

^^ There are a lot of good people trying to push for as many good things as possible here in Indy. You've got the IndyCog folks doing all of their good bicycle work in coordination with the DPW, the City's Office of Sustainability, the MPO, (and many others); the "Health by Design" people pushing for a more healthily designed, walkable city; the People for Urban Progress" group - helping to push for better transit and a more sustainable city; the IndyConnect effort working to improve regional transit and multimodal connectivity; all of the good urban gardening / environmentally focused people; our excellent group of Community Development Corporation people; many helpful and community-minded private consulting firms and private sector businesses that want to help the city grow in good ways; the many people who help put together the "UrbanIndy" blog; and many more. Thanks SoBe for your supportive comments from South Florida. That's one of the things that I've enjoyed most about living in Indy for the past 25 years or so --- the continuous work going on by so many people to help plan for and make the city / region a better place. Its come a long way since 1984 when I first moved here!

it makes us feel good that smart progressive people are engaged in defining the future of Indy.

HEY, who you calling "progressive"? I don't even own a smart phone. :lol:

Thats a great idea idyllic. It would be nice if there was a public input forum fro DPW where ideas are heard and considered. A place where we could lodge ideas like hey narrow that road! or HEY, turn those 1 ways back into 2 ways!

;)

DPW needs to send some of those guys to PPS' "Complete Streets" school, and hire a professional planner who actually understands how to get input BEFORE a plan is done.

That's one of the things that I've enjoyed most about living in Indy for the past 25 years or so --- the continuous work going on by so many people to help plan for and make the city / region a better place. Its come a long way since 1984 when I first moved here!

Ditto for my 30 years here. The bricking on Monument Circle and Market Street were still new then, and you could shoot a cannon any direction from the Monument at 5:05pm and you might have hit someone in the arse who was hurrying home from downtown.

What a difference several decades and a couple billion dollars of investment can make!

Thats a great idea idyllic. It would be nice if there was a public input forum fro DPW where ideas are heard and considered. A place where we could lodge ideas like hey narrow that road! or HEY, turn those 1 ways back into 2 ways!

;)

Well, with the story indicating the DPW gentleman's name is Jeremy Cashman, I would guess that his e-mail address is likely jeremy.cashman@indy.gov Let's all start by giving that a try.

Commentary by Witold Rybczynski here (http://www.slate.com/id/2293106/).

I know the purpose of this forum is not necessarily for this purpose, but I am wondering if any of you all live in the Englewood neighborhood on the east side. There are some nice houses over there, I am wondering what the consensus is on that neighborhood's future prospects and current livability. Feel free to message me if you so desire. I am looking for the perspective of other people in the center city, I don't want to waste my time asking a bunch of suburbanites on another online forum, this is the only haven I can find.

I know the purpose of this forum is not necessarily for this purpose, but I am wondering if any of you all live in the Englewood neighborhood on the east side. There are some nice houses over there, I am wondering what the consensus is on that neighborhood's future prospects and current livability. Feel free to message me if you so desire. I am looking for the perspective of other people in the center city, I don't want to waste my time asking a bunch of suburbanites on another online forum, this is the only haven I can find.

I live a couple of miles from the Englewood neighborhood (still in Center Twp.), and drive through it almost every day on my work commute. I have friends and colleagues who live there.

The Englewood CDC and Englewood Christian Church are on a mission to improve the area. The people who live there are a definite community, which is the area's chief asset.

I've been to many evening meetings at the church, and have never once felt threatened or scared while coming and going. It probably helps that the police hang out in the parking lot there.

There's lots of fast food in the area (Rally's, Long John Silver, Wendy's, Taco Bell, Pizza Hut are all on Washington Street), and El Sol (Mexican) is nearby. There's also a Chase Bank branch, a library, and Walgreen's. Pogue's Run Grocer is nearby at 10th & Rural, and the Linwood Square post office (46201) and shopping center are just east of Sherman Drive on 10th. Circle Centre mall is about 5 minutes' drive.

So the "necessities" of life are fairly convenient, except for Lowe's and Home Depot...which are necessities when you own an old house (even one that's been renovated). But there is an Ace Hardware nearby (just off South Rural at Twin Aire).

If you haven't already done so, talk to the director of the CDC and the pastor of the church. Here's the website address for the church. http://www.englewoodcc.com/
The CDC webpage link is at the bottom, labeled "ECDC".

I am providing a link to a story from the IBJ about a business moving out of its downtown offices with 40 employees. It is moving to another location on the NW side of Indianapolis (56th and Guion Rd area). It might not sound like a good thing, but I believe it will be very helpful for downtown Indy. Servaas Laboratories Inc. is moving out of its one story, ugly (IMHO) building along Waterway Blvd (just W of Indiana Ave.) where it manufactures "Bar Keepers Friend" cleaning products. By moving out of this space and selling the property to Indiana University - it helps assure that the future re-development of that prime property just north of Fall Creek and West of Indiana Avenue will be able to happen in accordance with proposed redevelopment plans -- and hopefully fairly soon. That area south of 16th street and north of the IU Medical Center is planned to become a new mixed-use extension of the existing bio-medical research and hospital campuses nearby to the south and east.

Already - the 1201 Indiana Avenue residential project is nearly completed with about 600beds in 300+ units and "The Avenue" mixed use project with 200+ residential units is happening nearby as well. The future redevelopment of the nearby Old Wishard complex will also be interesting to watch in that area. Hopefully the entire area bounded by Indiana Avenue, the RR tracks by the Old Bush Stadium and Fall Creek will someday be a mix of research labs, educational facilities, medical facilities, offices, some commercial uses, residential uses and other similar things -- all well-connected via various transit services to the downtown area, the Med Center, IUPUI and other nearby areas.

There are currently several 1960's or 70's era one-story buildings that are lined up along Waterway Blvd in that area. Servaas Industries is in one, the Saturday Evening Post (also run by SerVaas) is in another, a few other similar buildings are now used by IUPUI or other agencies for things like the IUPUI athletics offices, the POLIS center, and one or two other things. With all of these little buildings under Indiana University's ownership -- the University will be able to move forward with their long range redevelopment plan for that area. A plan from a few years ago showed this area linked to the Med Center and Methodist Hospital with an extension of the People Mover that formed a circular route. If that happens - and then that circulator is connected into downtown -- things would be looking pretty good. It would be great to see some excellent density around that area - while at the same time keeping some nice green areas and waterfront areas in those areas near Fall Creek and the White River.

(The story below just talks about SerVaas Industries moving out -- so all of the comments above are just me expounding on the story with my hopes for how the area will be changing in the future.) Here is the link to the story:

http://www.ibj.com/bar-keepers-friend-parent-lands-new-headquarters/PARAMS/article/27125

I wish I had your faith in IU, GarfieldPark.

Of course, the move also takes the property off of center townships' tax rolls.

Did anyone here submit a concept to the Monument Circle Idea competition? A friend involved with it said he's pleased with the submissions for the most part.

I am providing a link to a story from the IBJ about a business moving out of its downtown offices with 40 employees. It is moving to another location on the NW side of Indianapolis (56th and Guion Rd area). It might not sound like a good thing, but I believe it will be very helpful for downtown Indy. Servaas Laboratories Inc. is moving out of its one story, ugly (IMHO) building along Waterway Blvd (just W of Indiana Ave.) where it manufactures "Bar Keepers Friend" cleaning products. By moving out of this space and selling the property to Indiana University - it helps assure that the future re-development of that prime property just north of Fall Creek and West of Indiana Avenue will be able to happen in accordance with proposed redevelopment plans -- and hopefully fairly soon. That area south of 16th street and north of the IU Medical Center is planned to become a new mixed-use extension of the existing bio-medical research and hospital campuses nearby to the south and east.

Already - the 1201 Indiana Avenue residential project is nearly completed with about 600beds in 300+ units and "The Avenue" mixed use project with 200+ residential units is happening nearby as well. The future redevelopment of the nearby Old Wishard complex will also be interesting to watch in that area. Hopefully the entire area bounded by Indiana Avenue, the RR tracks by the Old Bush Stadium and Fall Creek will someday be a mix of research labs, educational facilities, medical facilities, offices, some commercial uses, residential uses and other similar things -- all well-connected via various transit services to the downtown area, the Med Center, IUPUI and other nearby areas.

There are currently several 1960's or 70's era one-story buildings that are lined up along Waterway Blvd in that area. Servaas Industries is in one, the Saturday Evening Post (also run by SerVaas) is in another, a few other similar buildings are now used by IUPUI or other agencies for things like the IUPUI athletics offices, the POLIS center, and one or two other things. With all of these little buildings under Indiana University's ownership -- the University will be able to move forward with their long range redevelopment plan for that area. A plan from a few years ago showed this area linked to the Med Center and Methodist Hospital with an extension of the People Mover that formed a circular route. If that happens - and then that circulator is connected into downtown -- things would be looking pretty good. It would be great to see some excellent density around that area - while at the same time keeping some nice green areas and waterfront areas in those areas near Fall Creek and the White River.

(The story below just talks about SerVaas Industries moving out -- so all of the comments above are just me expounding on the story with my hopes for how the area will be changing in the future.) Here is the link to the story:

http://www.ibj.com/bar-keepers-friend-parent-lands-new-headquarters/PARAMS/article/27125
From the IU University Architect Office:

MMS # 20117109
1000 & 1200 WATERWAY BLVD. - UPGRADE PROPERTIES.
Status: DESIGN
Project Entry Date: 2/16/2011

This building sale must have been in the works for a while for IU to have been planning to upgrade the building before Servaas moved.

I know the purpose of this forum is not necessarily for this purpose, but I am wondering if any of you all live in the Englewood neighborhood on the east side. There are some nice houses over there, I am wondering what the consensus is on that neighborhood's future prospects and current livability. Feel free to message me if you so desire. I am looking for the perspective of other people in the center city, I don't want to waste my time asking a bunch of suburbanites on another online forum, this is the only haven I can find.

Funny you should ask, I'm the president of the Englewood Neighborhood Association. I've lived here for about 4 years and love it. Like many neighborhoods, there are challenges but there are also many good things happining as well. As CDC mentioned, we like to consider our people one of our greatest assets. Englewood CDC recently released a neighborhood history that you might be interested in reading. I would be happy to provide one for you. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

There is now a giant crane in the Methodist ER parking lot. Not sure what its for but it is twice the height of Methodist Hospital. Nice to see two giant cranes from my apartment window

There is now a giant crane in the Methodist ER parking lot. Not sure what its for but it is twice the height of Methodist Hospital. Nice to see two giant cranes from my apartment window
I noticed that crane from the People Mover yesterday. Looks like there's a pile of large IU Health logos on the ground nearby so I think it's just there to install new signage on Methodist.

Speaking of which, I'm not sure why IU Health is being allowed to go ahead with all of its signage installations on the grounds of Methodist. Their MDC petition for all the signs has been continued for the last 4 Hearing Examiner meetings, most recently last Thursday (first item on the docket):

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/Planning/Zoning/Documents/he/5-12-11hem.pdf

On the flip side, I'm not sure why their petition has been continued at all, let alone 4 times....

I noticed that crane from the People Mover yesterday. Looks like there's a pile of large IU Health logos on the ground nearby so I think it's just there to install new signage on Methodist.

Speaking of which, I'm not sure why IU Health is being allowed to go ahead with all of its signage installations on the grounds of Methodist. Their MDC petition for all the signs has been continued for the last 4 Hearing Examiner meetings, most recently last Thursday (first item on the docket):

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/Planning/Zoning/Documents/he/5-12-11hem.pdf

On the flip side, I'm not sure why their petition has been continued at all, let alone 4 times....

1. They're IU Health and they can do what they want. I think the signage installation falls into the "better to ask forgiveness than permission" category.

2. IUH initially hired a sign-program manager with NO understanding of Indianapolis planning and zoning regulations. Now they have hired a meticulous consultant who understands the rules.

3. This isn't as simple as putting new faces on bank signs when the name changes; because hospital campuses are "development plan" districts, every single sign requires approval.

4. The zoning case may have turned up some existing "Clarian" signs for which approval was never received. So even if the new signs are 1:1 replacements (same size or smaller, just new faces), the old signs may not have been legal.

Astute observers will wonder: if the three major medical campuses of IUH require extensive work by an expert consultant, several dozen technical variances to the sign and zoning ordinances, and multiple hearings, then is Indianapolis' system too complicated?

Exactly. As I have said and arenn who knows a lot more than me has said, "It drives away development." Every little detail should be none of the city's business and I am not sure where they have the legal authority to dictate 100% of the development. Marion county is more like Singapore and less like a city with property rights. No wonder most new developments have been going to the donut counties. If the city of indianapolis would like to continue to deteriorate while Carmel replaces it in size and importance (i know size is a stretch for now) then it should continue to do what its doing.

Here's some details about the latest new live music venue going in at Fountain Square - called Pioneer. Its going in where Dino's Vino used to be - and will have a large addition that will be the music hall part of the complex. Construction on the 4200 sq. foot addition is supposed to start within a month - and they're hoping it will be completed by New Years 2012. One other thing I pulled from the article is that some additional space in the Murphy Arts Center is being leased to La Margarita - a new Mexican restaurant - along Woodlawn. I think I've heard rumors that a new patio will be set up on the north side of the Murphy Center along Woodlawn that will be an outdoor dining area for the Mexican restaurant. Here's the link to the full story:

http://www.ibj.com/fountain-square-project-to-include-concert-venue/PARAMS/article/27195

I noticed that crane from the People Mover yesterday. Looks like there's a pile of large IU Health logos on the ground nearby so I think it's just there to install new signage on Methodist.....

On the other hand, the pile of signs may be coincidental and we may be jumping to the wrong conclusion.

The Neuroscience Center is underway and will be connected to the People Mover by a skywalk, so the crane might be needed to erect the skywalk frame. Or maybe there is some HVAC system replacement underway at Methodist.

On the other hand, the pile of signs may be coincidental and we may be jumping to the wrong conclusion.

The Neuroscience Center is underway and will be connected to the People Mover by a skywalk, so the crane might be needed to erect the skywalk frame. Or maybe there is some HVAC system replacement underway at Methodist.
Actually, I just saw the crane raising one of the signs to the "tower" part of the hospital. I think it might be replacing this part that used to say "Methodist":

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=indianapolis&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Indianapolis,+Marion,+Indiana&ll=39.789281,-86.163197&spn=0.047024,0.077162&t=h&z=14&layer=c&cbll=39.788372,-86.163042&panoid=cRy98s5oR_59wO8XjZUnlg&cbp=12,13.77,,1,-16.07

Exactly. As I have said and arenn who knows a lot more than me has said, "It drives away development." Every little detail should be none of the city's business and I am not sure where they have the legal authority to dictate 100% of the development. Marion county is more like Singapore and less like a city with property rights. No wonder most new developments have been going to the donut counties. If the city of indianapolis would like to continue to deteriorate while Carmel replaces it in size and importance (i know size is a stretch for now) then it should continue to do what its doing.

I don't agree with your assesment.

First, Marion County should be so lucky as to be like the economic powerhouse Singapore.

Second, Carmel has stricter zoning and development standards on whole than Indianapolis does. Carmel wouldn't allow 1/10th of the crap that gets built in Marion County to be constructed.

Third, development is not being driven to the surrounding counties because of strict development standards in Marion County. Instead, development generally goes to the outer counties to follow the population growth and jobs. People move to the suburbs because nice housing is more affordable, schools are better, and taxes are lower, and the jobs follow the population. As for developers, they are also attracted by lower taxes and good schools (which will attract home buyers and businesses looking to relocate). The surrounding counties also have more undeveloped land available and much newer infrastructure.

As for the sign ordinance, it may well be in need of simplification, but I wouldn't use that as an example that the overall development standards in Indianapolis are too stringent. Also, I personally don't think Marion County is deteroriating. Rather, I think it is a successful urban area that faces some challenges, but is in pretty good shape.

Thanks Kangaroo for putting it so well. I agree with your eloquent summation.

Actually, I just saw the crane raising one of the signs to the "tower" part of the hospital. I think it might be replacing this part that used to say "Methodist":

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=indianapolis&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Indianapolis,+Marion,+Indiana&ll=39.789281,-86.163197&spn=0.047024,0.077162&t=h&z=14&layer=c&cbll=39.788372,-86.163042&panoid=cRy98s5oR_59wO8XjZUnlg&cbp=12,13.77,,1,-16.07

When I drove by last night, the IUH signs were indeed up on the Methodist building.

I saw the crane up over the weekend and wondered if something else was going on and I too saw the new signs up last night.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110518/SPORTS/110518007/Indianapolis-Chicago-duel-Big-Ten-title-games?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|s

I hope Indianapolis is at least named the long term host of either the conference basketball tournament or football championship game.

Ideally it would get both. This city was built to host events like these. The United Center is surrounded by a sea of parking lots and Soldier Field is small and OUTDOORS.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110518/SPORTS/110518007/Indianapolis-Chicago-duel-Big-Ten-title-games?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|s

I hope Indianapolis is at least named the long term host of either the conference basketball tournament or football championship game.

Ideally it would get both. This city was built to host events like these. The United Center is surrounded by a sea of parking lots and Soldier Field is small and OUTDOORS.

Football is a OUTDOOR sport and is meant to be played in the elements. That what makes the game of football so great. Indoor football should be banned unless it's arena football.

^^ Pattyco: still living in 1978 -- and loving it!! Were you one of the people who was thinking that Louisville should just keep Freedom Hall too? These people live with the motto: "If it was good enough in 1958 -- why wouldn't it be good enough now?"

In reality -- I've been in the new Soldier Field -- and it seemed like a pretty crappy stadium. It only seats about 62,000; The seats don't line up very well -- all kinds of weird levels and angles of the seats - not always facing properly toward the field. It seems pretty dumpy -- it has cracked, dirty cement walkways that you walk up as you're heading to your seats; overall the place feels very cramped. Its at least a mile - maybe a mile-and-a-half to the heart of downtown Chicago. This makes for just a bad place to have 60,000 out of town fans. It works OK for a Bears game -- where most people are locals and just drive to the game and park (for $40!) -- but when many of the fans will fly there -- they won't have cars and will have to either walk a mile or two from their downtown hotels - through the rain / snow or cold of early December -- or try to get a cab (for 45,000 people? all wanting to get to the same place at the same time?) or try to take some type of bus or transit -- of course that seems like an exercise in inefficiency -- loading up thousands and thousands of people then unloading them all again -- just for a four or five minute ride. Just sounds real messy. Also --- there's a good chance the field and entire stadium could be very wet and slippery in early December. Overall --- not a good place to host a major Big Ten event - that the Big Ten knows will be watched by tens of millions of people across the country who they are trying to impress.

I don't agree with your assesment.

First, Marion County should be so lucky as to be like the economic powerhouse Singapore.

Second, Carmel has stricter zoning and development standards on whole than Indianapolis does. Carmel wouldn't allow 1/10th of the crap that gets built in Marion County to be constructed.

Third, development is not being driven to the surrounding counties because of strict development standards in Marion County. Instead, development generally goes to the outer counties to follow the population growth and jobs. People move to the suburbs because nice housing is more affordable, schools are better, and taxes are lower, and the jobs follow the population. As for developers, they are also attracted by lower taxes and good schools (which will attract home buyers and businesses looking to relocate). The surrounding counties also have more undeveloped land available and much newer infrastructure.

As for the sign ordinance, it may well be in need of simplification, but I wouldn't use that as an example that the overall development standards in Indianapolis are too stringent. Also, I personally don't think Marion County is deteroriating. Rather, I think it is a successful urban area that faces some challenges, but is in pretty good shape.

I concur about Marion County zoning. Most development occurs by right, with no discretionary zoning reviews, and is held to very low standards compared to surrounding suburbs and comparable large cities. It is silly that the slightest improvements in a hospital district are scrutinized while commercial developers churn out mostly-windowless, generic boxes that negatively impact our streetscapes and built environment in general.

I disagree, in that it seems clear to me that the majority of Marion County is deteriorating. I think a review of property values, even excluding the recent real estate bubble, would show that something like 10-15% of neighborhoods are increasing in value, 20-25% are relatively stable, and the remaining 60-70% are in decline. While the decline might be a natural component of the urban/suburban development life cycle, I think Marion County lags behind other urban counties in seeing a resurgence in its old urban neighborhoods and even inner "suburban" neighborhoods.

I concur about Marion County zoning. Most development occurs by right, with no discretionary zoning reviews, and is held to very low standards compared to surrounding suburbs and comparable large cities. It is silly that the slightest improvements in a hospital district are scrutinized while commercial developers churn out mostly-windowless, generic boxes that negatively impact our streetscapes and built environment in general.

I disagree, in that it seems clear to me that the majority of Marion County is deteriorating. I think a review of property values, even excluding the recent real estate bubble, would show that something like 10-15% of neighborhoods are increasing in value, 20-25% are relatively stable, and the remaining 60-70% are in decline. While the decline might be a natural component of the urban/suburban development life cycle, I think Marion County lags behind other urban counties in seeing a resurgence in its old urban neighborhoods and even inner "suburban" neighborhoods.

I guess we have different standards of what constitutes deteriorating.

I would agree that Detroit (or even Cleveland) is an example of a deteriorating city, though even there one can find many lovely and flourishing neighborhoods, as well as several venerable cultural, educational and business institutions. Also, while I admit it has been awhile since I went to college in the city, I think St. Louis is another example of a city with very substantial deterioration (although, just as with Detroit, one can find many lovely and flourishing neighborhoods there, too). But, I would not put Indianapolis in the same boat. Certainly, the city has problems, including some neighborhoods in desperate need of redevelopment, but I think on whole the city is doing well. It seems strange to me that so many other cities, such as Jacksonville, Fl or Chattanooga, TN, would look to Indianapolis as an example of a successful city (as they do), if Indy were indeed so rundown and deteriorating. Moreover, I think the city was much worse off 30, 40, or 60 years ago, then it is today. 60 years ago, the city had a pretty bad reputation of being an ugly, dirty and boring town devoid of culture or anything else of interest--read a few tourist guides from that period and you will come across some very scathing opinions of the city.

Nonetheless, I am glad we agree that Marion County is in need of stricter, not more lenient development standards. If Indianapolis had as high of expectations as Carmel does about its built environment, then Indianapolis would be much better off.

^^ Pattyco: still living in 1978 -- and loving it!! Were you one of the people who was thinking that Louisville should just keep Freedom Hall too? These people live with the motto: "If it was good enough in 1958 -- why wouldn't it be good enough now?"

In reality -- I've been in the new Soldier Field -- and it seemed like a pretty crappy stadium. It only seats about 62,000; The seats don't line up very well -- all kinds of weird levels and angles of the seats - not always facing properly toward the field. It seems pretty dumpy -- it has cracked, dirty cement walkways that you walk up as you're heading to your seats; overall the place feels very cramped. Its at least a mile - maybe a mile-and-a-half to the heart of downtown Chicago. This makes for just a bad place to have 60,000 out of town fans. It works OK for a Bears game -- where most people are locals and just drive to the game and park (for $40!) -- but when many of the fans will fly there -- they won't have cars and will have to either walk a mile or two from their downtown hotels - through the rain / snow or cold of early December -- or try to get a cab (for 45,000 people? all wanting to get to the same place at the same time?) or try to take some type of bus or transit -- of course that seems like an exercise in inefficiency -- loading up thousands and thousands of people then unloading them all again -- just for a four or five minute ride. Just sounds real messy. Also --- there's a good chance the field and entire stadium could be very wet and slippery in early December. Overall --- not a good place to host a major Big Ten event - that the Big Ten knows will be watched by tens of millions of people across the country who they are trying to impress.

Thank goodness for indoor football. I know that stadiums aren't a panacea for urban development as a general matter, but what would our downtown look like if not for the bold decision to build the Hoosier Dome on spec? Having a versatile domed stadium (or two) has been very good for Indianapolis.

As for Soldier Field, I have taken the El to a Bears game, several years ago (before the wreckovation), and it's doable, but it's a hike. It's nearly a mile from the nearest stop to the stadium, and well over a mile from most downtown hotels. I don't mind a walk like that, but it may be quite a bit to ask for middle-aged football fans in early December in an unfamiliar city. I do think that most of the fans will have cars--Indy and Chicago are under heavy consideration because of their location in the middle of Big Ten territory--but your concerns are valid. As I read elsewhere, another concern about playing in Chicago is the quality of the field. The Bears apparently have a contractual right to a grass field and certain assurances as to the quality. Even under normal use, the Solider Field surface is in pretty bad shape by the end of the season. A Big Ten title game would create even more problems.

Another consideration is that the Big Ten may want some control of the conditions. The Big Ten is taking a risk by playing a championship game (a risk they are willing to take because of the financial reward). A conference title game forces the best team in the conference to play an extra game. For instance, if last season, Ohio State had finished the year 12-0 (8-0 in the Big Ten) and ranked #1, with everyone else no better than 6-2, then OSU would have ended the season with an essential guarantee to play for the national championship. If that happens in 2011, then OSU would have to play a championship game against the winner of the other division, say, a scrappy 9-3/6-2 Nebraska team. Muddy/snowy late season games are great to watch because they level the playing field and increase the odds of an upset. The Big Ten may not want to see its best team go down to a lesser team on a sloppy field.

My prediction, counter to most and based on nothing but speculation, is that basketball will go back to Chicago but that Indy will get the football game for a few years.

Football is a OUTDOOR sport and is meant to be played in the elements. That what makes the game of football so great. Indoor football should be banned unless it's arena football.

I think it's fair to characterize indoor football as "modern", even though the Houston Oilers started the "indoor football" era in the 1960's.

Since 1999, three Super Bowl winners (and four losers) have been "dome teams". Before that, no dome team reached the final game. The 2010 game was between two dome teams (playing outdoors in Miami). Out of 26 Super Bowl slots, that's 7 for indoor teams (27%). During that time 8 of 32 teams played indoors the whole time (the Cowboys just moved indoors last year), or 25%.

I think it's fair to suggest that indoor football has earned grudging respect based on those results. Given that the Super Bowl is typically played in good-weather or domed venues, the results suggest that dome teams don't have a particular advantage or disadvantage...suggesting that it really doesn't matter whether the game is played indoors or out during the season. Even when you take into account that 4 of the 8 "dome teams" have been to the Super Bowl since 1999, and 13 of the 24 outdoor teams, it's still about even.

But it does matter to fans. I don't believe that the Colts would sell 63,000 seats to every game in an outdoor stadium. Even when the team was bad, non-sellouts of the Hoosier Dome were rare.

Has anyone been keeping up with the waves that the Bloomington MPO is making by not including I69 in it's plans?

Bravo!!!

Has anyone been keeping up with the waves that the Bloomington MPO is making by not including I69 in it's plans?

Bravo!!!

I really don't understand their action. SR37 is essentially an interstate through the Bloomington area already.

The interstate south of Bloomington to Evansville is going to be built within a couple of years. Bloomington's action won't stop that.

Worst case, it will result in a new route that loops outside the Bloomington MPO area, where INDOT does the planning and controls the outcomes. Do they really want that?

Lilly to spend millions adding livability features to its downtown campus -- including art, green spaces, an amphitheater, 20,000 sq. foot bike commuting facility, bike / ped corridors linked into surrounding bicycling network, etc, etc.

In the full, lengthy story -- one little semi-hidden thing I found about three fourths of the way into the story was the following sentence, under the heading "Other planned features" : A model of a water molecule in the cascading fountain at the entrance from Delaware Street, which the city plans to convert to two-way traffic from one-way along the Lilly campus.

I find it amazing how people in this city for years (decades?) have been talking about converting various one way streets to two way. Now, all of a sudden this section of Delaware is going to be converted to two way. Sounds good -- but it just seems strange that this is the first discussion I've ever heard about it - and now it is already part of the "plan". Interesting.

Here's the full story:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011105190390

Has anyone been keeping up with the waves that the Bloomington MPO is making by not including I69 in it's plans?

Bravo!!!

The whole I-69 is a screw job. But ignoring the issue is the wrong approach for the Bloomington MPO to take. Why would you applaud a move that risks creationg a second multilane divided highway in Monroe County instead of the proposed SR37 upgrade to an interstate? I hope this was a carefully designed political move to get the upperhand in controling design through Bloomington. Bloomington's best path forward is to control zoning near future exits and demand design and landscaping that reduces noise along the route. Additionally try to limit and discourage through truck traffic heading east-west through town.

All I can see the Bloomington MPO move as, is a political one. They seem to have had zero affect on the plan as it currently exists. While it may not result in the elimination of the freeway through that area, perhaps it can affect some positive change by getting higher on the public's radar.

The whole I-69 is a screw job. But ignoring the issue is the wrong approach for the Bloomington MPO to take. Why would you applaud a move that risks creationg a second multilane divided highway in Monroe County instead of the proposed SR37 upgrade to an interstate? I hope this was a carefully designed political move to get the upperhand in controling design through Bloomington. Bloomington's best path forward is to control zoning near future exits and demand design and landscaping that reduces noise along the route. Additionally try to limit and discourage through truck traffic heading east-west through town.

As someone born and raised in Bloomington, I really am baffled by the opposition to the interstate. Its construction will have a negligible impact on the city as SR 37 is already a four lane divided highway with multiple interchanges. Better connectivity to the rest of the state is a positive.

Worst case, it will result in a new route that loops outside the Bloomington MPO area, where INDOT does the planning and controls the outcomes. Do they really want that?

Exactly. The least environmentally disruptive path the interstate can take from Bloomington to Indianapolis is along SR 37.

The new terrain, and most environmentally destructive, portion I-69 is already under construction. The damage is already done so to speak. There is no point complaining and trying to stop a road that is being built as we speak.

http://www.latimes.com/travel/la-tr-indianapolis-20110522,0,784221,full.story

As someone born and raised in Bloomington, I really am baffled by the opposition to the interstate. Its construction will have a negligible impact on the city as SR 37 is already a four lane divided highway with multiple interchanges. Better connectivity to the rest of the state is a positive.

My objection to the I-69 project is it served interstate and internation travel at the expense of Indiana. I was more interested in the alternatives that included upgrades to SR37, US41, and other state highways. I wouldn't lose any sleep if semitrucks had to continue to take other routes from Mexico to Canada.

Existing state highway and road improvements would have cost less and served Hoosiers better.

Lilly to spend millions adding livability features to its downtown campus -- including art, green spaces, an amphitheater, 20,000 sq. foot bike commuting facility, bike / ped corridors linked into surrounding bicycling network, etc, etc.

In the full, lengthy story -- one little semi-hidden thing I found about three fourths of the way into the story was the following sentence, under the heading "Other planned features" : A model of a water molecule in the cascading fountain at the entrance from Delaware Street, which the city plans to convert to two-way traffic from one-way along the Lilly campus.

I find it amazing how people in this city for years (decades?) have been talking about converting various one way streets to two way. Now, all of a sudden this section of Delaware is going to be converted to two way. Sounds good -- but it just seems strange that this is the first discussion I've ever heard about it - and now it is already part of the "plan". Interesting.

Here's the full story:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011105190390

I've viewed the Lilly Campus with some displeasure in the last few years. As Indianapolis downtown grows and Fletcher Place experiences revitalization, the Lilly Campus continues to be insulated from the rest of the city. Why can't Merril, McCarty, and Bicking all be connected from East St. over to West St. (or LOS in the case of Merril)? It contributes to the argueably worst street grid in the city - that between by I-70 and South St. It merely exists to slam cars in and out of downtown and is a major reason for the blighted area.

The plan for Delaware and the bike hub seem like steps in the right direction.

http://www.latimes.com/travel/la-tr-indianapolis-20110522,0,784221,full.story

Thanks for sharing Aaron. It gives me goosebumps to hear such kinds words about our city from the LA Times.

I concur about Marion County zoning. Most development occurs by right, with no discretionary zoning reviews, and is held to very low standards compared to surrounding suburbs and comparable large cities. It is silly that the slightest improvements in a hospital district are scrutinized while commercial developers churn out mostly-windowless, generic boxes that negatively impact our streetscapes and built environment in general.


What's funny about the zoning scrutiny for hospitals and other special districts though, is that's mostly just pretense. Nobody in City government is going to interfere with a hospital's development decisions. If that weren't true, would we have ended up with the terrible annex building across Capitol Avenue from Methodist Hospital?

I guess we have different standards of what constitutes deteriorating.

I would agree that Detroit (or even Cleveland) is an example of a deteriorating city, though even there one can find many lovely and flourishing neighborhoods, as well as several venerable cultural, educational and business institutions. Also, while I admit it has been awhile since I went to college in the city, I think St. Louis is another example of a city with very substantial deterioration (although, just as with Detroit, one can find many lovely and flourishing neighborhoods there, too). But, I would not put Indianapolis in the same boat. Certainly, the city has problems, including some neighborhoods in desperate need of redevelopment, but I think on whole the city is doing well. It seems strange to me that so many other cities, such as Jacksonville, Fl or Chattanooga, TN, would look to Indianapolis as an example of a successful city (as they do), if Indy were indeed so rundown and deteriorating. Moreover, I think the city was much worse off 30, 40, or 60 years ago, then it is today. 60 years ago, the city had a pretty bad reputation of being an ugly, dirty and boring town devoid of culture or anything else of interest--read a few tourist guides from that period and you will come across some very scathing opinions of the city.

Nonetheless, I am glad we agree that Marion County is in need of stricter, not more lenient development standards. If Indianapolis had as high of expectations as Carmel does about its built environment, then Indianapolis would be much better off.

What other cities want to emulate about Indianapolis is its downtown, not the quality of its neighborhoods. Our downtown is great and that is good for the County as a whole (without consideration of the costs of providing tax incentives and investing City funds downtown as opposed to in neighborhoods), but it doesn't change the fact that the majority of neighborhoods throughout the County are in decline.

Idyllic Indy: (regarding bad zoning regulations in Indy) "If that weren't true, would we have ended up with the terrible annex building across Capitol Avenue from Methodist Hospital?

You do need to take into consideration the time element as well. That incredibly ugly metal hotel tower (Tower Inn) on Capitol Avenue was built in the early 70's. It really has nothing to do with what is going on almost 40 years later. Undoubtedly there were bad zoning guidelines in place back then -- and it probably could be argued that there hasn't been enough change occurring yet regarding the current zoning code. But blaming current zoning codes for the ugly building on Capitol is not really appropriate. Blaming the bad zoning codes from the early 70's would be appropriate. ( I do agree however that the hospitals probably have always had lots of power to get what they want. I'm not sure however if that ugly Tower Inn can really be blamed on Methodist Hospital. It could be a building built by separate private developers - and might not have been a design put forth by Methodist Hospital back in the 70's.)

Lilly to spend millions adding livability features to its downtown campus -- including art, green spaces, an amphitheater, 20,000 sq. foot bike commuting facility, bike / ped corridors linked into surrounding bicycling network, etc, etc.

In the full, lengthy story -- one little semi-hidden thing I found about three fourths of the way into the story was the following sentence, under the heading "Other planned features" : A model of a water molecule in the cascading fountain at the entrance from Delaware Street, which the city plans to convert to two-way traffic from one-way along the Lilly campus.

I find it amazing how people in this city for years (decades?) have been talking about converting various one way streets to two way. Now, all of a sudden this section of Delaware is going to be converted to two way. Sounds good -- but it just seems strange that this is the first discussion I've ever heard about it - and now it is already part of the "plan". Interesting.

Here's the full story:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011105190390

Well, I would guess that the people who've been talking about converting one-way streets to two-way for years haven't been putting money in the mayor's re-election war chest.

I wonder what the boundaries of the two-way conversion will be. I would expect that it will begin at Maryland on the north. I would think this might be more about accommodating the North of South development. Hopefully, if it's successful, it can help lead to additional conversions, such as College, New York & Michigan.

Idyllic Indy: (regarding bad zoning regulations in Indy) "If that weren't true, would we have ended up with the terrible annex building across Capitol Avenue from Methodist Hospital?

You do need to take into consideration the time element as well. That incredibly ugly metal hotel tower (Tower Inn) on Capitol Avenue was built in the early 70's. It really has nothing to do with what is going on almost 40 years later. Undoubtedly there were bad zoning guidelines in place back then -- and it probably could be argued that there hasn't been enough change occurring yet regarding the current zoning code. But blaming current zoning codes for the ugly building on Capitol is not really appropriate. Blaming the bad zoning codes from the early 70's would be appropriate. ( I do agree however that the hospitals probably have always had lots of power to get what they want. I'm not sure however if that ugly Tower Inn can really be blamed on Methodist Hospital. It could be a building built by separate private developers - and might not have been a design put forth by Methodist Hospital back in the 70's.)

Garfield, I think it actually IS the same zoning ordinance, same regulations, same process as in the 70s. The specific details of the approval of that building could merit investigation, but my point remains that the special zoning districts, of which hospitals are included, are more about pretense rather than substance.

Garfield, I think it actually IS the same zoning ordinance, same regulations, same process as in the 70s. The specific details of the approval of that building could merit investigation, but my point remains that the special zoning districts, of which hospitals are included, are more about pretense rather than substance.

I think the key element is the passage of time. When the Methodist Tower Inn was built (1970s), it was the height of urban flight and bulldozer redevelopment schemes. Getting, having, and keeping key institutions in place was important: St. Vincent, just a few blocks north, had just decamped for the (then) beanfields of 86th Street.

The "Methodist Vicinity Plan" from the era would provoke guffaws today: lots of diagonal skywalks, dead streetfronts, defensive posture, internal pocket parks, and carless mid-block "pedestrian ways".

Urban hospitals have evolved over that period into something much more like urban corporate or college campuses, and there is always tension between the street and the campus. Campus designers strive for a coherent unit (often a superblock) that maximizes convenience and interfaces for campus users. By its very nature, that aspect tends to exclude outsiders through parking restrictions, security arrangements, and inward-facing buildings.

A good example is the new IU Health Neurosciences Center on 16th Street. It isn't really ON 16th Street, just next to it. Its main car and pedestrian connections are to 15th Street via Senate and Missouri. Its attachment to the rest of the IU Health campus is via skywalk to Methodist and People Mover. But it's built up to the sidewalk! Woo hoo.

I'd rather have seen its welcoming side open to 16th, in the style of the old St. Vincent. It would have been a modern interpretation of City Beautiful, where the entry courtyard is public and inviting. For examples of this "open campus" concept, see Herron HS and the new WFYI headquarters. For "campus" examples, look no further than Ivy Tech, and Methodist (turns its back on Capitol and faces I-65).

Okay, I'll ask: what's so bad about the Tower Inn across the street from Methodist? Sure, it's ugly as sin, but it was built in the 1970s, so that's pretty standard. Still, it's an 11 story building, built up rather than out. It is connected via skywalk, but installation of a mid-block crosswalk would be pretty painless. It is set back a bit from the sidewalk, but only enough to allow a driveway, which is pretty standard for hotels, even in major cities. There is a major entrance front and center on Capitol. It isn't the most inviting, but that could easily be rectified with some relatively inexpensive landscaping and streetscaping. Again, I don't disagree that the building is very, very ugly. But in terms of size and shape and placement, it strikes me as an odd building to single out with all the other issues Indy has.

Okay, I'll ask: what's so bad about the Tower Inn across the street from Methodist? Sure, it's ugly as sin, but it was built in the 1970s, so that's pretty standard. Still, it's an 11 story building, built up rather than out. It is connected via skywalk, but installation of a mid-block crosswalk would be pretty painless. It is set back a bit from the sidewalk, but only enough to allow a driveway, which is pretty standard for hotels, even in major cities. There is a major entrance front and center on Capitol. It isn't the most inviting, but that could easily be rectified with some relatively inexpensive landscaping and streetscaping. Again, I don't disagree that the building is very, very ugly. But in terms of size and shape and placement, it strikes me as an odd building to single out with all the other issues Indy has.

What makes a building appropriately urban is not just building mass or height.

There are anti-urban features, many of which aren't consistent with the Regional Center guidelines. (Note, however, that this building is one block north and one block west of the Regional Center boundaries.)

1. Aforementioned skywalk, which casts the main entry into permanent shadow.
2. Its entire front yard is a driveway/dropoff (save for a narrow planter strip with a couple of raised planters and daylillies in the ground).
3. No street trees.
4. No direct pedestrian connection to the front door. (Pedestrians must walk across the driveway/dropoff.)
5. Impermeable facade (fortress-like slit windows).
6. Lack of street-level interactions/ground-level public uses.
7. Materials incompatible with surroundings.
8. Creates canyon effect on Capitol; combined with lack of permeability and street-level activity, it encourages speeding down the one-way street.

As a long-time worker of Indiana Square this is great news. The little cafe that we have in the basement is simply awful.

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2011/05/23/new-restaurant-space-planned-for-regions-tower/PARAMS/post/27325

Okay, I'll ask: what's so bad about the Tower Inn across the street from Methodist? Sure, it's ugly as sin, but it was built in the 1970s, so that's pretty standard. Still, it's an 11 story building, built up rather than out. It is connected via skywalk, but installation of a mid-block crosswalk would be pretty painless. It is set back a bit from the sidewalk, but only enough to allow a driveway, which is pretty standard for hotels, even in major cities. There is a major entrance front and center on Capitol. It isn't the most inviting, but that could easily be rectified with some relatively inexpensive landscaping and streetscaping. Again, I don't disagree that the building is very, very ugly. But in terms of size and shape and placement, it strikes me as an odd building to single out with all the other issues Indy has.

I think CDC Guy mentions some good critiques of the building, aside from its ugliness. I thinks it clearly one of the ugliest buildings in the county, considering its relative prominence of size and location. But to answer your question of why I brought it up, it was because someone else raised the issue of the level of zoning restriction that applies to hospital zoning districts.

Indy dropped to #45 (of the 50 largest metro areas) from #44 last year.
http://www.americanfitnessindex.org/report.htm

Indy dropped to #45 (of the 50 largest metro areas) from #44 last year.
http://www.americanfitnessindex.org/report.htm

Doesn't surprise me one bit. Laziness = FAT and unless that mindset changes Indy will always be on top of the FAT list. I see this FAT lazy mindset here everyday. For example, the other day at the mall I saw a car full of young folks idling and waiting in the parking lot lane for who knows how long just to get a close parking space.

Doesn't surprise me one bit. Laziness = FAT and unless that mindset changes Indy will always be on top of the FAT list. I see this FAT lazy mindset here everyday. For example, the other day at the mall I saw a car full of young folks idling and waiting in the parking lot lane for who knows how long just to get a close parking space.

The survey doesn't look at laziness, and laziness doesn't equal fatness. I know many overweight and/or unhealthy individuals who are many times more hard-working than their fit counterpart.

Simply just because we went up one spot or down one spot compared to other cities isn't important. What's important is are we making progress when you look at the data longitudinally. When you compare the last 4 years of data, it looks as if we are making progress!

2011: #45 @ 34.4
2010: #44 @ 35.9
2009: #36 @ 39.3
2008: #34 @ 39.2

The survey doesn't look at laziness, and laziness doesn't equal fatness. I know many overweight and/or unhealthy individuals who are many times more hard-working than their fit counterpart.

Simply just because we went up one spot or down one spot compared to other cities isn't important. What's important is are we making progress when you look at the data longitudinally. When you compare the last 4 years of data, it looks as if we are making progress!

2011: #45 @ 34.4
2010: #44 @ 35.9
2009: #36 @ 39.3
2008: #34 @ 39.2

Was that sarcasm? The decreasing trend of the number to the right is not to be considered an improvement.

Was that sarcasm? The decreasing trend of the number to the right is not to be considered an improvement.

HAHA! :lol: I never said what type of progress. Shoulda used some <sarcasm>.

This illustration says it all. Sad, but true. Check it out.http://blogs.indystar.com/varvelblog/2011/05/24/indy-health-ranking/

As I understand it, the "survey" that ranked Indy low used some "best practices" numbers in addition to actual health outcomes.

I have a real problem with that.

In some realms of public policy, it is difficult or impossible to measure the outcome of interventions. Thus, "best practices" adoption is used as a surrogate indicator. This is most frequently done in realms such as air, water and groundwater contamination (where direct effects of small changes are impossible to measure or where "proving" that an intervention prevented contamination is impossible).

Broad measures of community physical health truly are well-measured by statistical indicators such as infant mortality, obesity, diabetes, smoking, drinking, drug-use rates, etc. When a headline asserts that Indy is in the bottom 5 of community health, then I expect the measure to be based on these human health statistics.

When such measures get into miles of sidewalk, trail and bike path, acres of parkland, transit accessibility, percentage of non-car commuters, workplace smoking bans, fast-food outlets, etc., the study stops measuring health and healthy behavior and starts measuring something else. It may be that such perceived deficits are an echo of a widespread disdain toward more-healthy living...but in that case, it's just double-counting to include it in any kind of ranking.

As I've written before, you don't need sidewalks, trails, parks, buses, trains, or smoke-free Indy to live a healthy life in Indianapolis. Just take the opportunities you find: park at the edge of the big box lot and walk a couple hundred extra yards. Drive to Eagle Creek Park or Fort Ben State Park and use the fitness and walking trails there. Drive to the nearest school with a track and run there.

[rant off]

Hi everyone, I am in China studying law and I am going to be here for the next few months. Don't go out of your way, but if anyone passes by trailside or NoS and sees notable progress a picture would be greatly appreciated! It's funny that the one thing that I am the most home sick about is watching the construction around Indy.

Surprisingly, at Renmin University (one of the top three schools in China) the internet is spotty at best...

Hi everyone, I am in China studying law and I am going to be here for the next few months. Don't go out of your way, but if anyone passes by trailside or NoS and sees notable progress a picture would be greatly appreciated! It's funny that the one thing that I am the most home sick about is watching the construction around Indy.

Surprisingly, at Renmin University (one of the top three schools in China) the internet is spotty at best...

Great! How's your Chinese? Ni Hao!

Well, no one has posted it here yet, but Nordstrom closing Circle Center mall store

http://www.ibj.com/nordstrom-closing-circle-centre-store/PARAMS/article/27384

Well, no one has posted it here yet, but Nordstrom closing Circle Center mall store

http://www.ibj.com/nordstrom-closing-circle-centre-store/PARAMS/article/27384

Golden opportunity for Target, Best Buy, hhgregg, and Bed, Bath, & Beyond. Maybe even Macy's too.

Any or all of these would address a big complaint of many folks considering single-family homes in Center Township.

A piece of rare good news for IPS: School 84 was just named the country's best magnet school. It is part of IPS' Center for Inquiry system, which will open a third location next to King Park next year.

Surprisingly, at Renmin University (one of the top three schools in China) the internet is spotty at best...

Really? You're surprised by the fact that China closely controls Internet access and content there?

Golden opportunity for Target, Best Buy, hhgregg, and Bed, Bath, & Beyond. Maybe even Macy's too.

Any or all of these would address a big complaint of many folks considering single-family homes in Center Township.

A piece of rare good news for IPS: School 84 was just named the country's best magnet school. It is part of IPS' Center for Inquiry system, which will open a third location next to King Park next year.

Totally agree. Even a second grocery option would be nice albeit, not sure how it would fit into the mall fabric. Plenty of opportunities to excel here though.

Totally agree. Even a second grocery option would be nice albeit, not sure how it would fit into the mall fabric. Plenty of opportunities to excel here though.

TARGET!!! I'd finally have a reason to go to the mall besides taking in the occasional movie. I live and work walking distance to the mall and go there once a month maybe.

Well, no one has posted it here yet, but Nordstrom closing Circle Center mall store

http://www.ibj.com/nordstrom-closing-circle-centre-store/PARAMS/article/27384

This could either turn out waaaay better for downtown or end up being a huge kick in the balls. Bad timing for super bowl visibility right on georgia st.

Super Targt would be perfect with the circle centre parking setup.

Didn't nordstrom sign something saying they wouldn't open a competing store and then they did anyway? F em.

Really? You're surprised by the fact that China closely controls Internet access and content there?

Many are simply lucky to get it at all in China. No surprise.

Golden opportunity for Target, Best Buy, hhgregg, and Bed, Bath, & Beyond. Maybe even Macy's too.

Any or all of these would address a big complaint of many folks considering single-family homes in Center Township.

A piece of rare good news for IPS: School 84 was just named the country's best magnet school. It is part of IPS' Center for Inquiry system, which will open a third location next to King Park next year.

A Target downtown would be of great business for anyone wanting anything basic that is visiting like Super Bowl time. I found that out last weekend when I was staying at the Marriott. Was not going out of downtown at 8 or 9 Friday and CVS was closed, so waited until morning. Would have loved for a Target to be downtown.

Hinge (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hinge/220262394655804) is under construction in Fletcher Place. Linked is their new facebook fanpage.

Well, no one has posted it here yet, but Nordstrom closing Circle Center mall store

http://www.ibj.com/nordstrom-closing-circle-centre-store/PARAMS/article/27384

This is no surprise. Nordstrom had this in mind when they openned the Keystone store. A high-priced department store may not be the best use of this space given the concentration of wealth in the Indy metro area 10 to 15 miles north around Keystone at the Crossing.

The major failure stems from the not increasing downtown population enough. While to keep Nordstrom this would have had to include a sizable cohort with wealth or expensive shopping habits, we still lack near downtown population to support a Target, Bed Bath & Beyond, HHGregg, and other large retailers. The city maybe close but needs to add several thousand residents in key locations closer to the CBD.

Until Indianapolis city government gets as serious about attracting near-downtown residents as it is about conventions and pro-sports -- our retail, entertainment, and cultural institution's futures will be in limbo.

This is no surprise. Nordstrom had this in mind when they openned the Keystone store. A high-priced department store may not be the best use of this space given the concentration of wealth in the Indy metro area 10 to 15 miles north around Keystone at the Crossing.

The major failure stems from the not increasing downtown population enough. While to keep Nordstrom this would have had to include a sizable cohort with wealth or expensive shopping habits, we still lack near downtown population to support a Target, Bed Bath & Beyond, HHGregg, and other large retailers. The city maybe close but needs to add several thousand residents in key locations closer to the CBD.

Until Indianapolis city government gets as serious about attracting near-downtown residents as it is about conventions and pro-sports -- our retail, entertainment, and cultural institution's futures will be in limbo.

This is an excellent post. Things may have been alittle different this past weekend. Hope that higher ups, look into this sometime if not now!

Hinge (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hinge/220262394655804) is under construction in Fletcher Place. Linked is their new facebook fanpage.

I'm happy Craig decided to add a second floor to his building. Several of us had a good discussion with him on the IBJ forums encouraging him to do just that. I'm sure we can't take credit but its a big improvement none the less.

This could either turn out waaaay better for downtown or end up being a huge kick in the balls. Bad timing for super bowl visibility right on georgia st.

Super Targt would be perfect with the circle centre parking setup.

Didn't nordstrom sign something saying they wouldn't open a competing store and then they did anyway? F em.

It would be great if they could shoehorn a Target and a Best Buy into the Nordstrom Space.

It may not be too far fetched if you think about the men's section of the Nordstrom with doors on Maryland and Meridian as the BestBuy and women's section with doors on Georgia and Meridian as the Target. Does anyone know how large the existing Nordstrom space is?

A Target downtown would be of great business for anyone wanting anything basic that is visiting like Super Bowl time. I found that out last weekend when I was staying at the Marriott. Was not going out of downtown at 8 or 9 Friday and CVS was closed, so waited until morning. Would have loved for a Target to be downtown.

But what makes you think a downtown Target would be open past 8 p.m.? I'd love to have a Target downtown, but I'm not confident that this location would be supportable with so few residents nearby and such abysmal public transit to get people there from within two or three miles. Most everyone farther away than that would surely find it more convenient to drive to one of the existing Targets than to drive downtown.

Hard to imagine convention/visitor shoppers providing many dollars for Target. What are they going to buy? A toothbrush? Some Advil? Those sales would be a tiny fraction of what a Target would need.

Really? You're surprised by the fact that China closely controls Internet access and content there?

China's online population rises to 477mn

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110516/tc_afp/chinaittechnologyinternetusers
– Mon May 16, 8:13 am ET

BEIJING (AFP) – The number of Internet users in China, already the world's largest online market, hit 477 million at the end of March, a senior government official was quoted by state media as saying Monday.

The official from the Telecommunications Administration Bureau, which falls under the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, announced the figure at a meeting in Beijing, the official Xinhua news agency reported.

The number of people using the Internet in China had hit 457 million at the end of 2010, meaning that more than one-third of its 1.3 billion-strong population were online.

China's spiralling online numbers have turned the Internet into a forum for citizens to express their opinions in a way rarely seen in a country where the traditional media is under strict government control.

The growing strength and influence of the web population has prompted concern in Beijing about the Internet's potential as a tool for generating social unrest, and authorities have stepped up surveillance in recent years.

The government blocks web content that it deems politically sensitive in a vast system dubbed the "Great Firewall of China".

Does anyone know how large the existing Nordstrom space is?

News reports say 216,000 square feet. Since it's three floors, that suggests a 70,000 square foot plate, but I think there are some cutouts on the upper floors for the mall-fronting shops.

I'd propose hhgregg on the ground floor, with a Target on the second and third floors. Perhaps a direct Target skywalk entrance on the Georgia St. side (where the skywalk connects to the Omni) and maybe ground-floor Target entrances from the corners of Georgia/Meridian and Maryland/Meridian.

Most everyone farther away than that would surely find it more convenient to drive to one of the existing Targets than to drive downtown.

Not really. Downtown, Near East Side, near north, old northside, Herron Morton, FCP, Irvington...all those are as close or closer to Circle Centre in distance and driving time than to Glendale or Washington Square or Southport/Emerson. I'd rather have a root canal than drive to Washington Square on Washington "Street" or to Southport on Emerson...the $1.50 to park in a garage at Circle Centre would be worth it.

And it would be one more thing to check off the list of objections to buying a single-family house in eastern Center Township.

Urbanists and "buy local" enthusiasts underestimate the pull of national suburban brands on young families. We city folk often argue against chain retail and restaurants, but those companies are huge because many people want their products and services.

Single family homes in Center Township can compete with Fishers and Carmel when "all things are equal". Retail people want is one of those "all things", along with schools.

But what makes you think a downtown Target would be open past 8 p.m.? I'd love to have a Target downtown, but I'm not confident that this location would be supportable with so few residents nearby and such abysmal public transit to get people there from within two or three miles. Most everyone farther away than that would surely find it more convenient to drive to one of the existing Targets than to drive downtown.

Hard to imagine convention/visitor shoppers providing many dollars for Target. What are they going to buy? A toothbrush? Some Advil? Those sales would be a tiny fraction of what a Target would need.

Study the situation is what the city planners and developers need to do. I think it could be open past 8, with the population and tourists downtown. However,business would be better in a growing climate. Again, a study needs to be looked at. Thanks for your comment.

We go to Target all the time. My wife loves it. You cannot deny that they sell products that are affordable and that nearly all of us use. You can only "buy local" for so many products before it exceeds your income level. Dont rake me over the coals for that, but we all do it.

In other news, INDOT is actually claiming that they want to listen to people about rail in Indiana. I crafted a summary at Urban Indy about it with links and dates for the only Indy open house.
http://www.urbanindy.com/2011/05/27/indot-rail-planning-open-house-6211/

worth your time if you care about improving rail transportation (freight and passenger) in Indiana.

Not really. Downtown, Near East Side, near north, old northside, Herron Morton, FCP, Irvington...all those are as close or closer to Circle Centre in distance and driving time than to Glendale or Washington Square or Southport/Emerson. I'd rather have a root canal than drive to Washington Square on Washington "Street" or to Southport on Emerson...the $1.50 to park in a garage at Circle Centre would be worth it.

And it would be one more thing to check off the list of objections to buying a single-family house in eastern Center Township.

Urbanists and "buy local" enthusiasts underestimate the pull of national suburban brands on young families. We city folk often argue against chain retail and restaurants, but those companies are huge because many people want their products and services.

Single family homes in Center Township can compete with Fishers and Carmel when "all things are equal". Retail people want is one of those "all things", along with schools.

Most of those neighborhoods you mentioned (aside from Irvington) are all within 3 miles of Circle Center. My concern is whether those neighborhoods would provide enough customers to support a Target. It's not that I don't believe people in Center Township want a Target. I just think we probably often generally assume that there are more residents within a three-mile radius of Circle Center than there really are. When you factor in that many of those people don't have a lot of disposable income, some people won't want to navigate downtown, and I would presume higher operating costs than at suburban-type locations, I wouldn't bet money on it happening. But best of luck to Simon if they pursue that idea.

You don't like driving down East Washington? Don't you enjoy the added stimulation of pothole-dodging?

Not really. Downtown, Near East Side, near north, old northside, Herron Morton, FCP, Irvington...all those are as close or closer to Circle Centre in distance and driving time than to Glendale or Washington Square or Southport/Emerson. I'd rather have a root canal than drive to Washington Square on Washington "Street" or to Southport on Emerson...the $1.50 to park in a garage at Circle Centre would be worth it.

I hope you are correct and the reality is better than perception. I fear many national retailers with stores in 3 or more of the INDY suburbs see a downtown store something that would be marginally successful (if that) and put a slight drag on each of their existing stores.

A plan by the city to increase residents near the CBD that is comprehensive, ambitious, tangible, and requires only a fraction of the money and effort put into the stadiums, areans, convention center, and Mall would go far to convince retailers they can have a future in downtown Indy. Downtown is playing a dangerous game expecting that convention traffic is going to support so much of it's economy. Having more residents stabalizes all of our institutions. I suppose North of South will be a nice step in that direction, but I am more interested in efforts to make quality apartment development as successful as it is in the growth suburban communities. The arguements that just letting the market guide the private sector is sophmoric. It's incredibly easy to develop on Greenfields and cities must work with developers to address barriers that make urban residential development complex.

We go to Target all the time. My wife loves it. You cannot deny that they sell products that are affordable and that nearly all of us use. You can only "buy local" for so many products before it exceeds your income level. Dont rake me over the coals for that, but we all do it.

Yes, I do too. Sorry I came off as raking you personally over the coals.

The present incarnation of Glendale seems to be (finally!) the winning combination. You're far more likely to run into me at Macy's, Lowe's or Target in Glendale than in Circle Centre (or Castleton or Washington Square or Keystone Crossing). I actually live a bit closer to the mess that is South Emerson from I-465 to Southport, but I hate going there.

You'd be far more likely to see me spending money at Circle Centre if it had a Target store...and I don't even have kids at home any more.

Now...anyone think we can convince Home Depot or Lowe's or Menard's to move into Sherman Park (the old RCA factory at Sherman & Michigan)? It's already a big warehouse box! Or maybe the old Sherman Commons at Sherman & Washington.

You don't like driving down East Washington? Don't you enjoy the added stimulation of pothole-dodging?

The part I hate is the superhighway/strip-mall hell from Shadeland to Mitthoeffer. The part from Southeastern to Irvington isn't a bad drive (aside from the horrendous sewer-holes in the curb lane).

When you factor in that many of those people don't have a lot of disposable income, some people won't want to navigate downtown, and I would presume higher operating costs than at suburban-type locations, I wouldn't bet money on it happening. But best of luck to Simon if they pursue that idea.

Don't let their upscale image fool you: Target is cheaper than Walmart nowadays, and they sell necessities that people buy at all income levels: food, clothes, cleaning and laundry supplies, consumer electronics. You don't buy necessities out of "disposable income".

There is a term of currency in community development called "income density". "Necessity retail" (food and general merchandise) can be supported by a dense concentration of households with low-to-moderate incomes.

A plan by the city to increase residents near the CBD that is comprehensive, ambitious, tangible, and requires only a fraction of the money and effort put into the stadiums, areans, convention center, and Mall would go far to convince retailers they can have a future in downtown Indy.

Focusing the NSP investment in the near-downtown neighborhoods was part of this. We've got to stabilize the Center Township neighborhoods before improving them.

Focusing the NSP investment in the near-downtown neighborhoods was part of this. We've got to stabilize the Center Township neighborhoods before improving them.

The NSP was a great idea for the aging neighborhoods in Center Township. It does not address the lack of residents that live in or near downtown. Certainly downtown and the inner ring neighborhoods are not isolated form one-antoher, but it is not necessary to stabalize those neighborhoods to increase residents near downtown. A new initiative unique to increasing residents in and around downtown is needed.

As I wrote previously downtown institutions struggle or fail because there are too few downtown residents living within a mile or two of the CBD. Too many initiatives by the city have focused on using the conventions, weekenders, workers, tourist, and sports events. Despite the progress and some successes (we are better off than 1990), the last 20 years have shown those groups are insufficient for downtown to achieve and sustain the kind of growth we expect.

Despite my salty outlook, I do think Target would be a service to residents and do much to make downtown more attractive to a young professional and older childless demographics that oddly IMO choose Hamilton and Boone Counties to live as opposed to near downtown Indy. However, a Target-type store is not a fundamental "game-changer" we need.

Don't let their upscale image fool you: Target is cheaper than Walmart nowadays, and they sell necessities that people buy at all income levels: food, clothes, cleaning and laundry supplies, consumer electronics. You don't buy necessities out of "disposable income".

There is a term of currency in community development called "income density". "Necessity retail" (food and general merchandise) can be supported by a dense concentration of households with low-to-moderate incomes.

Unfortunately, we don't have a very high density of population in Center Township. I'm obviously not an expert on Target's store locating decisions. Does 165,000 people in 42 square miles, with a very large percentage of them being well below the median income provide the income density that Target is seeking? If so, why aren't they already here? I wonder if the requirement of the extra expenses of building a downtown store (structured parking, higher property taxes) would be what's keeping them out. If so, maybe the Circle Center space, with its existing parking garage and absence of, or reduced, property taxes (I believe the City owns the land) might make the difference in getting them here. I'm still skeptical though that the flow of customers and the average purchase amount would be steady enough at that location.

I hope you are correct and the reality is better than perception. I fear many national retailers with stores in 3 or more of the INDY suburbs see a downtown store something that would be marginally successful (if that) and put a slight drag on each of their existing stores.

A plan by the city to increase residents near the CBD that is comprehensive, ambitious, tangible, and requires only a fraction of the money and effort put into the stadiums, areans, convention center, and Mall would go far to convince retailers they can have a future in downtown Indy. Downtown is playing a dangerous game expecting that convention traffic is going to support so much of it's economy. Having more residents stabalizes all of our institutions. I suppose North of South will be a nice step in that direction, but I am more interested in efforts to make quality apartment development as successful as it is in the growth suburban communities. The arguements that just letting the market guide the private sector is sophmoric. It's incredibly easy to develop on Greenfields and cities must work with developers to address barriers that make urban residential development complex.

Don't worry. Everyone is clamoring to live around LOS now. Haven't you seen how hopping it is down there nowadays? Oh wait... nevermind. Maybe you ARE on to something.

I wonder if anyone has any updates on the new projects of IUPUI? I know there are lot of constructions going on in our school. When I left IUSM (where I got my PhD) one year ago, the new building of Riley Hospital was almost completed, and the constructions of the Eye Institute and new Wishard just started. I heard they will build a new Neuroscience research building on 16th & senate. It looks like there's so much going on in our school, and the entire campus is actively expanding. It would be so nice if I can see some latest pictures of all those projects. God, I miss Indy so much! Maybe I should find a postdoc position in our school and move back to Indy.

I wonder if anyone has any updates on the new projects of IUPUI? I know there are lot of constructions going on in our school. When I left IUSM (where I got my PhD) one year ago, the new building of Riley Hospital was almost completed, and the constructions of the Eye Institute and new Wishard just started. I heard they will build a new Neuroscience research building on 16th & senate. It looks like there's so much going on in our school, and the entire campus is actively expanding. It would be so nice if I can see some latest pictures of all those projects. God, I miss Indy so much! Maybe I should find a postdoc position in our school and move back to Indy.

IU Health is improving the standing of many of its programs nationally, and that involves expanding, creating more clinics, ORs, and laboratory space. But the most important thing is hiring great people. Look for a good lab and come back for your post-doc!

Interesting redevelopment plan created by the neighbors surrounding 16th street. http://goo.gl/7MD7k

Indianapolis continues to fight an uphill battle to expand public transportation.

If the MAYOR can't even get behind mass transit. what chance does this city have to improve it?

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110531/LOCAL/105310322/Lack-mass-appeal-curbing-mass-transit-Central-Indiana?odyssey=mod|mostview

Improving mass transit is key to revitalizing and stabilizing Center Township.

Indianapolis continues to fight an uphill battle to expand public transportation.

If the MAYOR can't even get behind mass transit. what chance does this city have to improve it?

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110531/LOCAL/105310322/Lack-mass-appeal-curbing-mass-transit-Central-Indiana?odyssey=mod|mostview

Improving mass transit is key to revitalizing and stabilizing Center Township.

Actually, the Mayor and many other leaders in the city committed publicly to seeing transit improved (bus and rail) in this joint open letter last December:

http://full.indy.com/posts/regional-leaders-united-in-effort-for-affordable-realistic-mass-transit

----

This line from the open letter mirrors what Ballard stated in your link:

"Looking ahead to 2011, there is still significant work to be done to create the best possible plan. A reliable economic analysis of the final system plan must be completed, so that its costs and benefits are transparent to all."

The Mayor supports transit. He's simply stating he won't move until the plan is sound.

I actually found his quote from your link very encouraging:

"I have pledged not to do anything unless we can prove there is going to be a good return on investment," Ballard said. "Traffic mitigation is a secondary goal. The first goal is economic development."

That is key. It pains me when our public officials try to sell mass transit as a traffic congestion fix. In this town, it will not do that. Maybe shave a 5 minutes off here or there if your job is close to where a stop is and you can walk there quickly, but otherwise, probably not going to cut down too much.

Hopefully, mass transit can create an attractive option for people here who will choose to lower their dependence on autos, create more dense living around stations and promote a type of economic and real estate development pattern that does not yet exist in the Indy area. at the core, I would simply like the option to be able to commute without requiring a car. Right now, that is quite difficult.

Mass transit needs to be a part of the city! The city needs to get into the 21st century. Before long, the population and activities of the city will no doubt be for the use of mass transit and the city will be stuck. I believe that the city will grow rapidly...

Actually, the Mayor and many other leaders in the city committed publicly to seeing transit improved (bus and rail) in this joint open letter last December:

http://full.indy.com/posts/regional-leaders-united-in-effort-for-affordable-realistic-mass-transit

----

This line from the open letter mirrors what Ballard stated in your link:

"Looking ahead to 2011, there is still significant work to be done to create the best possible plan. A reliable economic analysis of the final system plan must be completed, so that its costs and benefits are transparent to all."

The Mayor supports transit. He's simply stating he won't move until the plan is sound.

I actually found his quote from your link very encouraging:

"I have pledged not to do anything unless we can prove there is going to be a good return on investment," Ballard said. "Traffic mitigation is a secondary goal. The first goal is economic development."

I see your point of view, but- and perhaps this is due to my cynical perspective regarding the ability of local elected officials to get anything done to improve mass transit- my reaction was that the mayor sounded skeptical of the benefits of mass transit and its ability to meet his standard for economic development.

At the minimum, it would be nice to have a mayor as gung-ho and outspokenly in favor of mass transit as Antonio Villaraigosa.

..

Actually, the Mayor and many other leaders in the city committed publicly to seeing transit improved (bus and rail) in this joint open letter last December:

http://full.indy.com/posts/regional-leaders-united-in-effort-for-affordable-realistic-mass-transit

----

This line from the open letter mirrors what Ballard stated in your link:

"Looking ahead to 2011, there is still significant work to be done to create the best possible plan. A reliable economic analysis of the final system plan must be completed, so that its costs and benefits are transparent to all."

The Mayor supports transit. He's simply stating he won't move until the plan is sound.

I actually found his quote from your link very encouraging:

"I have pledged not to do anything unless we can prove there is going to be a good return on investment," Ballard said. "Traffic mitigation is a secondary goal. The first goal is economic development."

How many iterations of the Indy Connect plan do we expect to go through? What/who are we waiting on at this point? I thought the original plan was supposedly based on a cost-benefit analysis, which is why it was created by influential people in the business community rather than by the MPO.

Does it sound a little like the Mayor is trying to hedge his bets in an election year talking the talk about wanting to support transit, while at the same time saying he won't support the plan until there is a cost-benefit analysis? I wonder whether this newly-needed information will be available before the election.

For my part, I hope that cost/benefit analysis means a bigger emphasis on dedicated guideway rapid transit (whether LRT or BRT).

Hey all, I used to be a regular poster on here but college & living out of state has lowered my readership. I'm an avid fan of Indy and having spent a good portion of my young life here it will always have a place in my heart! Anyway, I'm wondering what a few good date night spots would be around town, specifically downtown. I've made reservations for the Eagle's Nest even though it is somewhat out of my price range. But I want to "do it up" since this is a very special occasion. Any thoughts or input would be greatly appreciated! :cheers:

^^ I think the Eagle's Nest is a nice place. It can be a very romantic place for a couple. If the two of you like steaks -- Fogo de Chao is one of the best downtown steak houses. It doesn't seem to have many areas that are very intimate though - if you're looking for that too (along with the good food). A friend has recommended "Meridian" up at around 56th and Meridian. Its supposed to have very good food and an attractive atmosphere. If you're into checking out the city -- the view from the Eagle's Nest will make it the best place for you to go.

The other day I ran into one of the leaders of Riley Area Redevelopment Corporation. He said that, now since the Trailside is underway, they are now re-focusing on getting IPS moved out of the Coca Cola building and its surrounding parking lots and getting a good mixed use project to replace it. It sure would be nice if that could move along with at least a little speed -- and maybe we'd be lucky to have an announcement before the end of the year. Ideally, if that happens, maybe we'd even be able to have a groundbreaking for some type of new big project there by this time next year.

Yesterday (6/3/11) they had the groundbreaking for the Hinge on Virginia Avenue. With that project -- at least all of these residential projects are under construction downtown right now.

(I'm not positive about the exact number of units for each of these - so for some I'm just making estimates based on things I've heard.) I think the numbers are as follows:

1201 Indiana Ave 300 units (approx)
The Avenue 200 units (approx)
Waverly 40 new units
Trailside 60 units
North of South 320 units
The Hinge 60 units
The Sheridan 20 units

Thats about 1000 new residential units.
The new residential projects adjacent to Lugar Towers may be starting pretty soon as well.

Yesterday (6/3/11) they had the groundbreaking for the Hinge on Virginia Avenue. With that project -- at least all of these residential projects are under construction downtown right now.

(I'm not positive about the exact number of units for each of these - so for some I'm just making estimates based on things I've heard.) I think the numbers are as follows:

1201 Indiana Ave 300 units (approx)
The Avenue 200 units (approx)
Waverly 40 new units
Trailside 60 units
North of South 320 units
The Hinge 60 units
The Sheridan 20 units

Thats about 1000 new residential units.
The new residential projects adjacent to Lugar Towers may be starting pretty soon as well.

Positive findings. Residential growth is among the most important factors (if not most important) needed to make downtown economically and culturally successful. Most of this new growth is apartment housing for which downtown surprisingly is "light" in supply. It will be interesting to see if these rent fast or if the increased supply starts to reach demand.

Regardless, I think there will be more room in the market for growth along Indiana Ave and Senate near the Canal. Locations here are within one mile of the CBD, most of IUPUI's campus buildings, State government offices, Mass Ave, 10th and Meridian, and the Methodist Campus. All of these locations attract and employ educated 20 and 30 year olds with growing incomes.

Yesterday (6/3/11) they had the groundbreaking for the Hinge on Virginia Avenue.

Here's a pic from the Hinge groundbreaking:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2580/5801602384_4efedd1990_z.jpg

Get it? Ground "breaking" :-)
That's SEND's Paul Baumgarten kneeling in the plaid.

Star article about contemporary home designs in Fountain Square:

Nonprofit's modernistic designs lure urban homebuyers looking for something a bit different

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110605/BUSINESS/306050001/Nonprofit-s-modernistic-designs-lure-urban-homebuyers-looking-something-bit-different?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CIndyStar.com%7Cp

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=BG&Date=20110605&Category=BUSINESS&ArtNo=306050001&Ref=AR&MaxW=640&Border=0
http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=BG&Date=20110605&Category=BUSINESS&ArtNo=306050001&Ref=V2&MaxW=600&Border=0

At the Big Ten Meetings in Chicago today, it was announced that Indianapolis will continue hosting the Big Ten Football Championship Game through 2016 at Lucas Oil Stadium. It also will host the Men's and Women's Big Ten Basketball Championship games in 2012, 2014 and 2016. Chicago will host the Men's and Women's Big Ten Basketball Championship games in 2013 and 2015.

The football championship is expected to have approx. a $20 million per year economic impact. Fantastic news for Indianapolis!!

Copies of the stories from the Indianapolis Star and the Chicago Tribune are copied in the "Midwest" folder under the "Big Ten Football Championship" thread.

The other day I ran into one of the leaders of Riley Area Redevelopment Corporation. He said that, now since the Trailside is underway, they are now re-focusing on getting IPS moved out of the Coca Cola building and its surrounding parking lots and getting a good mixed use project to replace it. It sure would be nice if that could move along with at least a little speed -- and maybe we'd be lucky to have an announcement before the end of the year. Ideally, if that happens, maybe we'd even be able to have a groundbreaking for some type of new big project there by this time next year.

Was it Bill Gray? Nice guy.

Chamber of Commerce taking a more visible role in pushing mass transit here in Indy. Nice to see. Hope it gets some attention.

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?ID=48046

(Hi! Mostly just read because I don't have much to contribute, but I do find interesting Indy development info every once in a while.)

Saw this in the IndyStar Opinion Column. The article is about how to redevelop the GM Stamping Plant, but there was some info near the bottom that I thought was interesting.

"The Children's Museum reportedly has its eye on Winona. Ambitious plans have been cooking for the remains of Bush Stadium and Central State Hospital, and Lotter says "significant announcements" on both of those will come soon."

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110606/OPINION08/106060306/There-s-still-some-life-old-sites

Does anyone know what they are "cooking up"? The old Central State Hospital site has always intrigued me because of it's history. The Children's Museum plan is something I remember though, but I don't remember reading anything on here about Central State Hospital being redeveloped.

(Hi! Mostly just read because I don't have much to contribute, but I do find interesting Indy development info every once in a while.)

Saw this in the IndyStar Opinion Column. The article is about how to redevelop the GM Stamping Plant, but there was some info near the bottom that I thought was interesting.

"The Children's Museum reportedly has its eye on Winona. Ambitious plans have been cooking for the remains of Bush Stadium and Central State Hospital, and Lotter says "significant announcements" on both of those will come soon."

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110606/OPINION08/106060306/There-s-still-some-life-old-sites

Does anyone know what they are "cooking up"? The old Central State Hospital site has always intrigued me because of it's history. The Children's Museum plan is something I remember though, but I don't remember reading anything on here about Central State Hospital being redeveloped.
Central State redevelopment plans have been in the works for several years but were scuttled by the economy. They're just now back on the table and I believe involves a lot of residential and some commercial space.

Most recent news on Winona is that it will be razed and opened for redevelopment. Developers are reportedly interested in working on a blank slate site more than they were interested in taking on Winona as-is. A while back the Children's Museum was interested in acquiring it and making a large park as an accessory to the museum, but they reportedly don't have the financial wiggle room to make that happen right now. Instead, they're exerting influence behind the scenes and are likely to get a small park associated with the museum. More info here:

http://www.ibj.com/childrens-museum-holds-key-to-winona-redevelopment/PARAMS/article/27345

Mobyhead: "Was it Bill Gray? Nice guy."

Answer: Yes --- and Yes.

I'd love to see some floor plans of the homes they are building in Fountain Square.

Mobyhead: "Was it Bill Gray? Nice guy."

Answer: Yes --- and Yes.

Cool. He's board president of the USS Indianapolis Museum. That's my connection.

IBJ is reporting an uptick in interest in the area of the Fashion Mall from developers. Could it be possible we may be seeing some activity in the area soon?

Roche to add 50 HR employees in Indianapolis:

http://www.ibj.com/roche-to-add-50-hr-employees-in-indianapolis/PARAMS/article/27691

Positron plans $55 million cyclotron project, 80 jobs:

http://www.ibj.com/positron-plans-55-million-cyclotron-project-80-jobs/PARAMS/article/27700

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/fashionking615muah/DSC00098.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/fashionking615muah/DSC00097.jpg

Wishard's Core
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/fashionking615muah/DSC00095.jpg

Thanks for the photos. The new neurosciences center adds nicely to the urban view as you are coming into downtown from the NW on I-65. Along with the Methodist Hospital buildings that first come into view -- this new building fills in more of the space between Methodist and the IU Health facilities at the north end of the canal -- with the medical complex / IUPUI to the west and downtown beyond. All of the new development to the west of this 16th Street complex is adding a lot to the built-up feel of the area as well. Namely -- the two new big apartment complexes on Indiana Avenue along with the Wishard project (whose construction cranes you can see in your photo above). Speaking of the apartment projects -- I'm probably getting greedy but Fashionking, have you happened to take any pictures of the project known as "The Avenue" at 10th and Indiana lately? It is looking very nice. Its a great five story project - with retail on the first floor nicely fronting 10th Street. The views from those apartments will be great looking SE toward downtown. If you have any photos of that new project - it would be great to see them here on this thread. Thanks.

Glad to see my idea becoming a reality. ;-)

Plan to convert Bush Stadium into apartments moving forward

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110610/NEWS/110610026/Plan-convert-Bush-Stadium-into-apartments-moving-forward?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CIndyStar.com

This city will be its own great place in a few. Not saying a "World City", even though I wish it would, however a cool city of it's own!

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b177/fashionking615muah/DSC00102.jpg

P.S. I will take pictures of 1201 Indiana Ave tomorrow...and I will try to get some pictures coming south on Indiana Ave, facing downtown of 10th & Indiana Avenue.

An interesting article on the relative lack of success of several New Urbanist communities in suburban Indianapolis:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110612/LOCAL/106120360/New-Urbanism-communities-struggle-lure-business?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

I liked the quote by Brainard at the end of the article where he states that he "hates" sprawl and I applaud his efforts to densify Carmel and make it more pedestrian friendly.

The core problem with New Urbanism is that is trying to build from scratch an urban, dense development. Successful urbanism develops organically over time and not straight from a greenfield. Since suburbs are autocentric and commercial developments rely on access to well traveled thoroughfares to generate sales, pockets of density with businesses located off the main drag will receive little exposure and success.

It certainly is preferable to the standard low density sprawl that surrounds urban areas though.

It is great to see the growth of the annual Indiana Gay Pride Festival. Each year more and more organizations are represented and hopefully allow people to see that gays and lesbians are normal citizens trying to surivive like everyone else.

I expect this event to only grow in popularity and exposure every year.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110612/LOCAL/106120351/Erika-D-Smith-Gay-pride-festival-goes-mainstream-year?odyssey=mod_sectionstories

^^ I too love seeing the growth of cultural diversity in Indianapolis!

Gays on average are more highly educated and wealthy than the average person so Indianapolis and Indiana should be doing everything they can to attract them, instead of pushing them away with misguided discriminatory legislation.

I have yet to see anyone leave a state because it was too gay friendly but I have seen many gay people leave a city/state due to its homophobic environment.

Great shot of the Buckingham development at 10th and Indiana!

Yes -- Thanks Fashionking - its great to see your photos of these many projects. I'm glad you got the shot of the 10th and Indiana project -- and I'll look forward to seeing the view of it from the other angle as well --- and also the shot of the 1201 Indiana project.

$15 million, 350 space parking garage planned for SW corner of Broad Ripple Avenue and College Avenue:

http://www.ibj.com/city-picks-team-for-15m-broad-ripple-parking-garage/PARAMS/article/27714

^^ I'm in China and the CCP blocks IBJ.com for some reason. Could someone tell me a little more about the new BR garage? Thanks in advance!

It is planned to be paid for with a mix of public and private dollars. It is supposed to cost a total of about $15 million for a 350 space garage. $6 million of the cost will be paid for with city funds (from the lease of the parking meters last year) and $9 million in private funds. I believe the city's expenditure will be paid back by some type of tax revenue from the garage in the amount of about $350,000 per year. It is supposed to have some commercial space on the first floor. It is to be located on the SW corner of College and Broad Ripple Ave. I'm not sure what is there now -- it may be a gas station (that may be abandoned) and possibly a cell phone store or tire store or something else kind of small on the corner. The picture of the garage isn't too impressive looking in my opinion. Its about four stories -- pretty basic looking. It has a squared off entrance on the corner with glass -- which I saw a few people were responding in the comments section of the article as looking like a Walgreens. I hope this is helpful. I'm just pretty much pulling this from my memory of the article -- but I think its all fairly accurate.

It is planned to be paid for with a mix of public and private dollars. It is supposed to cost a total of about $15 million for a 350 space garage. $6 million of the cost will be paid for with city funds (from the lease of the parking meters last year) and $9 million in private funds. I believe the city's expenditure will be paid back by some type of tax revenue from the garage in the amount of about $350,000 per year. It is supposed to have some commercial space on the first floor. It is to be located on the SW corner of College and Broad Ripple Ave. I'm not sure what is there now -- it may be a gas station (that may be abandoned) and possibly a cell phone store or tire store or something else kind of small on the corner. The picture of the garage isn't too impressive looking in my opinion. Its about four stories -- pretty basic looking. It has a squared off entrance on the corner with glass -- which I saw a few people were responding in the comments section of the article as looking like a Walgreens. I hope this is helpful. I'm just pretty much pulling this from my memory of the article -- but I think its all fairly accurate.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v673/billionbucks/Screenshot2011-06-13at115310PM.png

City announces $15M Broad Ripple parking garage


http://www.indystar.com/article/20110613/LOCAL18/106130367/City-announces-15M-parking-garage-Broad-Ripple?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

It is planned to be paid for with a mix of public and private dollars. It is supposed to cost a total of about $15 million for a 350 space garage. $6 million of the cost will be paid for with city funds (from the lease of the parking meters last year) and $9 million in private funds. I believe the city's expenditure will be paid back by some type of tax revenue from the garage in the amount of about $350,000 per year. It is supposed to have some commercial space on the first floor. It is to be located on the SW corner of College and Broad Ripple Ave. I'm not sure what is there now -- it may be a gas station (that may be abandoned) and possibly a cell phone store or tire store or something else kind of small on the corner. The picture of the garage isn't too impressive looking in my opinion. Its about four stories -- pretty basic looking. It has a squared off entrance on the corner with glass -- which I saw a few people were responding in the comments section of the article as looking like a Walgreens. I hope this is helpful. I'm just pretty much pulling this from my memory of the article -- but I think its all fairly accurate.

This just has "missed opportunity" written all over it. A parking garage with the canal and the towpath immediately to the north? For this parcel, Broad Ripple could have done so much better.

This exact structure could have served as an infill space, taking up the parking lot in front of the Broad Ripple strip mall on the east side of the avenue. I know that the owner of that parcel would have never allowed such a thing, but this sort of structure could have functioned quite effectively there. Here, it seems like a nose-thumbing at all the principles involved in determining a highest and best use, so I guess it should come as no surprise that it's a largely publicly funded initiative.

I found this interesting posting in the Milwaukee devo section by Splat8. Milwaukee is also wrestling with the possibility of lightrail transportation. It is sobering info on usage of light rail in other cities of similar size. If light rail was used by Indy residents as in other cities about 10 to 40 thousand riders per day could be expected (at most 2% of the population rides light rail). Multimodal may make more sense given those projections. Here are the figures for light rail usage elsewhere.

Population of Metro Cleveland - 2,250,871 people
Cleveland Blue and Green Lines - 18 miles of track 12,400 Daily Ridership
Percentage of population that uses light rail on a daily basis .5%

Population of Metro St. Louis - 2,779,939 people
St. Louis Metrolink - 46 miles of track 61,573 Daily Ridership
Percentage of population that uses light rail on a daily basis 2%

Population of Metro Twin Cities - 3,269,814 people
Hiawatha Line (Minneapolis) - 12.3 miles of track 33,500 Daily Ridership
Percentage of population that uses light rail on a daily basis 1%

Population of Metro Pittsburgh - 2,365,285 people
Pittsburgh Light Rail - 25 miles of track 25,200 Daily Ridership
Percentage of population that uses light rail on a daily basis 1%

I found this interesting posting in the Milwaukee devo section by Splat8. Milwaukee is also wrestling with the possibility of lightrail transportation. It is sobering info on usage of light rail in other cities of similar size. If light rail was used by Indy residents as in other cities about 10 to 40 thousand riders per day could be expected (at most 2% of the population rides light rail). Multimodal may make more sense given those projections. Here are the figures for light rail usage elsewhere.

Population of Metro Cleveland - 2,250,871 people
Cleveland Blue and Green Lines - 18 miles of track 12,400 Daily Ridership
Percentage of population that uses light rail on a daily basis .5%

Population of Metro St. Louis - 2,779,939 people
St. Louis Metrolink - 46 miles of track 61,573 Daily Ridership
Percentage of population that uses light rail on a daily basis 2%

Population of Metro Twin Cities - 3,269,814 people
Hiawatha Line (Minneapolis) - 12.3 miles of track 33,500 Daily Ridership
Percentage of population that uses light rail on a daily basis 1%

Population of Metro Pittsburgh - 2,365,285 people
Pittsburgh Light Rail - 25 miles of track 25,200 Daily Ridership
Percentage of population that uses light rail on a daily basis 1%

Well, that should be of no surprise. Most of those cities have a single line serving a single corridor. Unless all the people in those cities drive on that one corridor I wouldn't expect a single light rail line to make a huge dent in how people get around.

A city needs an expansive network (see New York, Boston, Chicago, DC) with multiple lines to generate high ridership.

The top 12 design ideas for the Indianapolis "Circle Re-design" competition are supposed to be unveiled tomorrow. People can vote on them to select the "people's choice" winner. I saw a few of the posters being put up on the Circle today -- showing the finalists, I guess. I tried to find more info on the web site - but didn't have any luck so far. I'm sure there will be more info on this soon.

Drove through Fountain Square tonight and saw that Revolucion Cafe was open. Looks very good. Cool lighting inside - with smoky, yellow walls. The live music section must be behind the front bar area - because you couldn't see a large open music hall area when driving by from the street.

Also --- one of the downtown clubs -- I believe it is Sensu -- is redoing a part of their front facade. They are removing some wood that covered a beautiful arched window and doorway area on the first floor. It is looking much better than before.

Circle Redesign Competition:

http://photos.indystar.com/galleries/13248-monument-circle-idea-competition-finalists

I really like the idea of getting rid of the huge fountain pools in some of the designs. Also reducing the "street" to single lane, maybe with some smaller passing lane/pockets at the intersections would be great. More space, more trees, and less of a "base" to the monument would help make the are feel like a useable park instead of just a monument.

I really like the idea of getting rid of the huge fountain pools in some of the designs. Also reducing the "street" to single lane, maybe with some smaller passing lane/pockets at the intersections would be great. More space, more trees, and less of a "base" to the monument would help make the are feel like a useable park instead of just a monument.

As the fountains pools are part of the original design of the Monument (I realize they have been reconstructed in subsequent renovations, but they have always been part of the design since they were originally installed in 1897, four years before the Monument was fully completed), I doubt very much the state, which owns the building, would ever approve having them removed.

I do think all of the finalist plans are very interesting, but I know most of them will be tossed because they are either never going to be approved or would be too expensive to build. I believe the 12th plan (in the order of the slide show presentation on the Star's website) is the one most likely to be implemented because it appears to involve the least amount of reconstruction to the Circle area. A light renovation coupled with more event programming and additional retail establishments fronting the Circle would make an already good urban area even better.

Speaking of the Indy Pride parade and festival last weekend (from a few posts back) -- here is a photo thread from the Indy Star / Metromix showing a few photos (actually a LOT of photos) from the day:

http://indianapolis.metromix.com/events/photogallery/pride-parade-1/2667439/content

I remember when we had to pay for security in order to have the Gay Pride Parade on Munument Circle. My partner belonged to a men's club and they had events in order to raise the money to pay for security. Glad to see it has come such a long way.

Spell Check!! Monument.

Speaking of the Indy Pride parade and festival last weekend (from a few posts back) -- here is a photo thread from the Indy Star / Metromix showing a few photos (actually a LOT of photos) from the day:

http://indianapolis.metromix.com/events/photogallery/pride-parade-1/2667439/content

So glad I was back in town for this! Had a blast.

If anyone's interested in signing: CIRTA put their petition up online to influence the 2012 Indiana General Assembly to put the mass transit referenda on the ballot. Whether or not you agree with the current transit plan many of the lawmakers need to wake up and realize that transit IS a major issue for cities like Indianapolis.

http://www.cirta.us

If anyone's interested in signing: CIRTA put their petition up online to influence the 2012 Indiana General Assembly to put the mass transit referenda on the ballot. Whether or not you agree with the current transit plan many of the lawmakers need to wake up and realize that transit IS a major issue for cities like Indianapolis.

http://www.cirta.us

Done. Thanks for the link.

Done. Thanks for the link.

I signed as well!

I signed as well!

And me.

It's hard to tell from the low-quality and disorganized graphics on IndyStar and IBJ websites just exactly what all the Monument Circle finalists are suggesting. It seems as if Ratio and Haus and Greg Meckstroth address the real issues. Perhaps others do too, but the majority of the submissions seem to rely on massive realignment of the space.

Major physical redesign of the Circle is like doing major plastic surgery on a single, already-attractive person who doesn't go out on dates: you can do it, but it is pointless and doesn't address "the problem".

Redesigning the Circle won't draw people there. Period, full stop.

I will say flat out: I'm a hands-on, design-biased person. I love cool places and spaces for their own sake, as art or sculpture: lines, angles, materials, textures, colors, views, light, shadows, reflections. But remaking Monument Circle isn't about all those things; they have little to do with PEOPLE in a space. What's called for here is a full-on Project for Public Spaces "Placemaking" exercise. Tweak the space, but for heaven's sake, PROGRAM IT fully.

Making different interesting things happen all the time is what will draw people consistently. It will make people curious about "what's happening today" and encourage people just to hang out there.

This is a programming and marketing problem. Yes, there's probably some tinkering around the edges necessary with the design. But a radical overhaul of the space will be just another layer of bricks and bollards and benches.

When a play or musical is staged at a theatre, the director and producer will tinker with the setting. But theatres are not routinely face-lifted or remodeled extensively for every different show.

Monument Circle needs to be programmed like a theatre. It needs a "producer" and a stable of directors and some set designers, not a new architect and a major remodel. It needs to become an experience, a happening, on top of being an already great space.

[rant off]

Some of the proposals are ridiculous.
Monument circle is not only a monument to war veterans, but also a monument to symmetry. The perfect circular shape and how everything radiates perfectly from that is one of the things that makes it so wonderful, yet many of the proposals actually suggest that we should mess that up and take away what makes the circle, a circle. Some even included the removal of the massive fountains.
We don’t want to completely redo the circle; we just want to improve what is there. With all the spaces around the city that actually need dramatically changed, they pick the one place that is already wonderful?
My only complaint about Monument circle was traffic and the difficulty of getting around, not the aesthetics.

So glad I was back in town for this! Had a blast.

I only came down for the parade. My 4-year old son got sooo much candy. :)

Well, that should be of no surprise. Most of those cities have a single line serving a single corridor. Unless all the people in those cities drive on that one corridor I wouldn't expect a single light rail line to make a huge dent in how people get around.

A city needs an expansive network (see New York, Boston, Chicago, DC) with multiple lines to generate high ridership.

Actually, a city needs the requisite demand to reasonably consider having an expansive network. Except for D.C. (just under 10,000 p/sq.m), all of these cities average well over 10,000 persons per sq. mile and, of course, have a variety of areas that far exceed that average. These cities' densities beget the expansive network. It doesn't work the other way around, despite all the attendant propaganda surrounding the issue.

Details on plans to continue developing the area between 16th street and the IUPUI / Med Center campus into a mixed use --- "bio-tech / research / residential / commercial" neighborhood.

http://www.ibj.com/city-leaders-aim-to-transform-16th-street-into-tech-hub/PARAMS/article/27761

Here is some related news about re-use of the old Bush Stadium complex into 268 apartments. There are links to drawings of the stadium re-use plans as well as to the larger site plans for the proposed bio-tech neighborhood (see post above) to the east of the stadium.

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2011/06/16/city-kicking-in-5m-toward-reuse-plan-for-bush-stadium/PARAMS/post/27762

Does anyone think that another major sports francise will ever locate to Indy? Just wondering. My nephew plays for the Rays, I think they are safe for the time being, but mainly I am thinking about hockey. Thanks..

It's hard to tell from the low-quality and disorganized graphics on IndyStar and IBJ websites just exactly what all the Monument Circle finalists are suggesting. It seems as if Ratio and Haus and Greg Meckstroth address the real issues. Perhaps others do too, but the majority of the submissions seem to rely on massive realignment of the space.

Major physical redesign of the Circle is like doing major plastic surgery on a single, already-attractive person who doesn't go out on dates: you can do it, but it is pointless and doesn't address "the problem".

Redesigning the Circle won't draw people there. Period, full stop.

I will say flat out: I'm a hands-on, design-biased person. I love cool places and spaces for their own sake, as art or sculpture: lines, angles, materials, textures, colors, views, light, shadows, reflections. But remaking Monument Circle isn't about all those things; they have little to do with PEOPLE in a space. What's called for here is a full-on Project for Public Spaces "Placemaking" exercise. Tweak the space, but for heaven's sake, PROGRAM IT fully.

Making different interesting things happen all the time is what will draw people consistently. It will make people curious about "what's happening today" and encourage people just to hang out there.

This is a programming and marketing problem. Yes, there's probably some tinkering around the edges necessary with the design. But a radical overhaul of the space will be just another layer of bricks and bollards and benches.

When a play or musical is staged at a theatre, the director and producer will tinker with the setting. But theatres are not routinely face-lifted or remodeled extensively for every different show.

Monument Circle needs to be programmed like a theatre. It needs a "producer" and a stable of directors and some set designers, not a new architect and a major remodel. It needs to become an experience, a happening, on top of being an already great space.

[rant off]

Absolutely! The Circle needs new events/displays/activities to give us reasons to get out and participate. Regularly scheduled events associated with the Circle (somehow get the mini-marathon to involve the Circle again as in the 80's), a formal place for press conferences, info booth, exhibit space and show rooms for local events and items of pride. Let's improve the viewing experience at the top of the monument. It's a dungeon as is. We are seasonal in Indiana so let's have Spring / Fall activities - outdoor restaurants with heaters; Easter parades, flower shows, pumpkin patches and sales, farmers markets, and walks/running/bike races to include the Circle. In Summer restaurants/mini-water park with sprayers, ice-cream etc. Maybe even some temporary carnival rides. How about somebody renting bikes like in every other city in America? For young people how about a Zip line, concerts/Karyoke competitions/ American Idol competitions etc.; karting around circle. In Milwaukee they have a beer wagon that a dozen people pedal (and drink) as they go! Winter with the lighted monmument, ice skating, and holiday activities (Tuba concert/etc.) and snow+ice sculptures. Also buskers/musicians/street artists & performers licensed to be present would be an attraction. Let's keep out unlicensed pan-handlers too. Most of this isn't hard or expensive and could be done by private companies. Let's get creative.

To IndyYeah: ^^ I don't think a third major league team is likely in the next fifteen years. Indy is about thirtieth in size among MSAs. We are likely to stay there for a while. We may pass one or two regions in population in the next twenty years -- but will likely be passed by two or three as well. The only way it might happen would be if the leagues expanded -- and then we might get one. I don't see that happening though. It seems the owners are thinking more along the lines of shrinking the leagues - unless they expand overseas.

I think the leagues will stay about the same size and the various metro areas will pretty much keep the same number of teams. The top ten or so metros (in population) typically have 4 or more teams. The 11th - 20th regions typically have about 3 teams. The 21st - 30th sized cities typically have about 2 teams. And the 31st - 50th typically have 1 major league team on average (a few have two, most have one, and some have zero). Indy is kind of fortunate to have two right now. If we were growing significantly faster than most regions, we might expect to get a third team in the next twenty years -- but, since we're growing at a rate just a little above the national average for large metro areas, it seems unlikely we will "move up" much into the next level with more major league teams.

I think it is pretty great to have the NFL keeping us busy from late August through January - and the NBA from November through May. Basically that leaves mid may through mid August without major league sports -- yet that's when we've got the Indy 500 and the Brickyard 400 -- plus those are the best months of the year to just enjoy our nice summers here in Indiana. We have cheap tickets for AAA baseball - which is good and a little WNBA in the summer to keep things interesting. I think it would be stretching the city too thin to have to try to sell on average 25,000 - 30,000 tickets per game for MLB. And this is just my opinion - but I don't think there is enough interest in NHL hockey - especially at the same time of year when we're trying to fill Conseco with basketball fans. I'm pretty happy with the way things are.

It's hard to tell from the low-quality and disorganized graphics on IndyStar and IBJ websites just exactly what all the Monument Circle finalists are suggesting. It seems as if Ratio and Haus and Greg Meckstroth address the real issues. Perhaps others do too, but the majority of the submissions seem to rely on massive realignment of the space.

Major physical redesign of the Circle is like doing major plastic surgery on a single, already-attractive person who doesn't go out on dates: you can do it, but it is pointless and doesn't address "the problem".

Redesigning the Circle won't draw people there. Period, full stop.

I will say flat out: I'm a hands-on, design-biased person. I love cool places and spaces for their own sake, as art or sculpture: lines, angles, materials, textures, colors, views, light, shadows, reflections. But remaking Monument Circle isn't about all those things; they have little to do with PEOPLE in a space. What's called for here is a full-on Project for Public Spaces "Placemaking" exercise. Tweak the space, but for heaven's sake, PROGRAM IT fully.

Making different interesting things happen all the time is what will draw people consistently. It will make people curious about "what's happening today" and encourage people just to hang out there.

This is a programming and marketing problem. Yes, there's probably some tinkering around the edges necessary with the design. But a radical overhaul of the space will be just another layer of bricks and bollards and benches.

When a play or musical is staged at a theatre, the director and producer will tinker with the setting. But theatres are not routinely face-lifted or remodeled extensively for every different show.

Monument Circle needs to be programmed like a theatre. It needs a "producer" and a stable of directors and some set designers, not a new architect and a major remodel. It needs to become an experience, a happening, on top of being an already great space.

[rant off]

CDC, I agree with your plastic surgery analogy although I don't think programing is the whole answer. The Circle is already gorgeous and many of the designs make me cringe. I'm all for tweaking the circle, not massive, unnecessary changes. I would love to see the city install high quality ornamental lighting, remove one traffic lane, rebuild the tree pits using structural soils and possibly replacing the Honey Locust trees with London Plane trees. (I love the honey locust trees but I think the existing ones may be root bound) We should work with building owners to open up more retail bays, encourage outdoor cafe's and provide more movable seating in general.

I just hope we don't end up loving our Circle to death. I see this with trees all the time... Some people love their trees so much they end up doing stupid stuff like topping them because they feel like they're being neglectful if they aren't messing with them all the time. They end up killing decade old trees and never realize they are to blame.

I wish I would have continued to develop my plan to add 2/3 scale circles where Market Street intersects with East and West Streets. Also, expanding the higher quality, brick paved portions of Market Street all the way to East and West streets is a no brainer. I think that would have been an excellent proposal if I do say so myself:)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4087/4969787347_889caeda25.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/64262017@N00/4969787347/)
MSA Model Revised - Expanded Sidewalks Cresent Roundabout (http://www.flickr.com/photos/64262017@N00/4969787347/) by hostetlermatt (http://www.flickr.com/people/64262017@N00/), on Flickr

Basically that leaves mid may through mid August without major league sports -- yet that's when we've got the Indy 500 and the Brickyard 400

I think NASCAR has higher TV ratings than hockey, which would arguably make it the fourth major-league sport. The 500 is still the biggest single sporting event in the world, and the Brickyard 400 was once second to it.

There are two cities in the US that are the centers of motorsports: Indy and Charlotte. Both are relatively small metros with three major-league sports: football, basketball, and "major league" auto racing.

The Circle is already gorgeous and many of the designs make me cringe. I'm all for tweaking the circle, not massive, unnecessary changes. I would love to see the city install high quality ornamental lighting, remove one traffic lane, rebuild the tree pits using structural soils and possibly replacing the Honey Locust trees with London Plane trees. (I love the honey locust trees but I think the existing ones may be root bound) We should work with building owners to open up more retail bays, encourage outdoor cafe's and provide more movable seating in general.

I just hope we don't end up loving our Circle to death. I see this with trees all the time... Some people love their trees so much they end up doing stupid stuff like topping them because they feel like they're being neglectful if they aren't messing with them all the time. They end up killing decade old trees and never realize they are to blame.

We agree.

It's a minor point, but I'd rather see a variety of trees, including honey locust. There is nothing like the filtered sunlight of a medium-sized honey locust to attract people. Deep shade from a grove of plane trees might be too much. (Remember the famous Whyte video of the Seagram building plaza in NYC: people like to sit in the sun.) Plus it's a lot easier for maintenance folks: you can sweep up locust leaves with brooms or sweeping machines from streets, sidewalks, and entry vestibules.

Whatever trees are planted, they need to be given properly engineered soil and water infiltration (or drip-irrigation) so that we don't have to tear them out every 30 years because they're root-bound.

I don't know so much about shrinking the leagues. For to realign and relocate the teams, that is where I am going with the question.

^^ I thought I answered the question. You asked whether anyone thought another major league sports franchise would locate in Indy - and my answer was no -- particularly in the next twenty years. I don't think it will happen whether it is a relocation or an expansion. Like I explained in my earlier post: I don't think Indy is ready to try to have a third major league team.

I also (like you) doubt that the leagues will shrink -- although it is true that there has been some talk about doing it (mostly by media types and people on blogs).

As far as relocating ---- I'm sure it'll happen here and there. A few places seem to be struggling with population - and may have trouble keeping up with the economics of keeping their current number of teams if they're not growing. Buffalo for example keeps shrinking - and is now around 1.2 million people - and has two Major League sports teams. Eventually Los Angeles is likely to get an NFL team - but I'm not sure where it might come from. Stadium situations continue to cause issues as well. Even some large cities lose teams because they aren't willing to meet the desired new stadium requirments of some owners. The Seattle Supersonics are exhibit 1 in that category.

I don't know enough about possible re-alignment. It could happen. I've never understood why the National League Central has six teams while other divisions have five - and one - the American League West - has four. Why not move one of the teams in the 6 team division into the division with only four teams? Strange. (I think it is because Bud Selig wanted to move Milwaukee into the National League Central so there would be the continuous rivalry with the nearby Chicago Cubs. SInce he was the MLB Commissioner - he must have pulled some strings. Apparently no other teams wanted to move -- so now there is the strange, uneven balance in the number of teams - 14 in the American League and 16 in the National League.

It's hard to tell from the low-quality and disorganized graphics on IndyStar and IBJ websites just exactly what all the Monument Circle finalists are suggesting. It seems as if Ratio and Haus and Greg Meckstroth address the real issues. Perhaps others do too, but the majority of the submissions seem to rely on massive realignment of the space.

Major physical redesign of the Circle is like doing major plastic surgery on a single, already-attractive person who doesn't go out on dates: you can do it, but it is pointless and doesn't address "the problem".

Redesigning the Circle won't draw people there. Period, full stop.

I will say flat out: I'm a hands-on, design-biased person. I love cool places and spaces for their own sake, as art or sculpture: lines, angles, materials, textures, colors, views, light, shadows, reflections. But remaking Monument Circle isn't about all those things; they have little to do with PEOPLE in a space. What's called for here is a full-on Project for Public Spaces "Placemaking" exercise. Tweak the space, but for heaven's sake, PROGRAM IT fully.

Making different interesting things happen all the time is what will draw people consistently. It will make people curious about "what's happening today" and encourage people just to hang out there.

This is a programming and marketing problem. Yes, there's probably some tinkering around the edges necessary with the design. But a radical overhaul of the space will be just another layer of bricks and bollards and benches.

When a play or musical is staged at a theatre, the director and producer will tinker with the setting. But theatres are not routinely face-lifted or remodeled extensively for every different show.

Monument Circle needs to be programmed like a theatre. It needs a "producer" and a stable of directors and some set designers, not a new architect and a major remodel. It needs to become an experience, a happening, on top of being an already great space.

[rant off]

Rant on, my man.

I'll add that there is insufficient population around the CBD for people to just organically show up... Therefore I agree with the idea of consistent quality programming. The money spent for "plastic surgery" could be placed into an endowment to support year-round programming.

Still, I the underused spaces, venues, or othe institutions in downtown have very little to do with their physical design, and much to do with the environment around them such as parking lots, fast food shacks, walled-in apartment complexes, more parking lots, and the list goes on.

An aggressive plan by the city to add even more development in and around the CBD to substantially grow residential population will have rippling effects through the downtown economy and living experience.

CDC, I agree with your plastic surgery analogy although I don't think programing is the whole answer. The Circle is already gorgeous and many of the designs make me cringe. I'm all for tweaking the circle, not massive, unnecessary changes. I would love to see the city install high quality ornamental lighting, remove one traffic lane, rebuild the tree pits using structural soils and possibly replacing the Honey Locust trees with London Plane trees. (I love the honey locust trees but I think the existing ones may be root bound) We should work with building owners to open up more retail bays, encourage outdoor cafe's and provide more movable seating in general.

I just hope we don't end up loving our Circle to death. I see this with trees all the time... Some people love their trees so much they end up doing stupid stuff like topping them because they feel like they're being neglectful if they aren't messing with them all the time. They end up killing decade old trees and never realize they are to blame.

Nice suggestions Hoss. I think you have the right attitude AND offer up reasonable improvements the city (and public opinion) are likely to agree to.

Isn't the building on Illinois and Market vacant? How might it fit into reinvention of the Circle? Areas near the Circle are as much a part of its success as the Circle is on them. To put it another way, the problem may not be so much the Circle, but rather the negative effects of inappropriate design and development surrounding it.

^^ I thought I answered the question. You asked whether anyone thought another major league sports franchise would locate in Indy - and my answer was no -- particularly in the next twenty years. I don't think it will happen whether it is a relocation or an expansion. Like I explained in my earlier post: I don't think Indy is ready to try to have a third major league team.

I also (like you) doubt that the leagues will shrink -- although it is true that there has been some talk about doing it (mostly by media types and people on blogs).

As far as relocating ---- I'm sure it'll happen here and there. A few places seem to be struggling with population - and may have trouble keeping up with the economics of keeping their current number of teams if they're not growing. Buffalo for example keeps shrinking - and is now around 1.2 million people - and has two Major League sports teams. Eventually Los Angeles is likely to get an NFL team - but I'm not sure where it might come from. Stadium situations continue to cause issues as well. Even some large cities lose teams because they aren't willing to meet the desired new stadium requirments of some owners. The Seattle Supersonics are exhibit 1 in that category.

I don't know enough about possible re-alignment. It could happen. I've never understood why the National League Central has six teams while other divisions have five - and one - the American League West - has four. Why not move one of the teams in the 6 team division into the division with only four teams? Strange. (I think it is because Bud Selig wanted to move Milwaukee into the National League Central so there would be the continuous rivalry with the nearby Chicago Cubs. SInce he was the MLB Commissioner - he must have pulled some strings. Apparently no other teams wanted to move -- so now there is the strange, uneven balance in the number of teams - 14 in the American League and 16 in the National League.

Thanks, You are a little more thorough now, appreciate it. The realignment is in discussions now. I do think alot like you are about it all. The hockey thing I feel may be more of an immediate thought becuase of some of the warm climate cities, and one team(escapes me ) moving to Canada this past month. As we know these teams are about finances, and I would like to see a hockey team thrive in Indy, but we probably won't know for years to come, if at all. Thanks again.

I've never understood why the National League Central has six teams while other divisions have five - and one - the American League West - has four. Why not move one of the teams in the 6 team division into the division with only four teams? Strange. (I think it is because Bud Selig wanted to move Milwaukee into the National League Central so there would be the continuous rivalry with the nearby Chicago Cubs. SInce he was the MLB Commissioner - he must have pulled some strings. Apparently no other teams wanted to move -- so now there is the strange, uneven balance in the number of teams - 14 in the American League and 16 in the National League.

If both leagues had an odd number of teams either one team in each would be off every day—because baseball plays series they'd usually be off for three days at a time—or there would be an interleague series every day. Some people wouldn't mind seeing the latter hence the Astros to the AL West chatter. Baseball didn't want it at the time because it threw a wrench into the interleague play hype machine.

More on topic, I can't see another big four franchise in Indy any time soon. I doubt we're attractive enough either in terms of population or buying power. I think an MLS team could work, but that would require ownership with awfully deep pockets. An NASL team might be more suitable...

Actually, a city needs the requisite demand to reasonably consider having an expansive network. Except for D.C. (just under 10,000 p/sq.m), all of these cities average well over 10,000 persons per sq. mile and, of course, have a variety of areas that far exceed that average. These cities' densities beget the expansive network. It doesn't work the other way around, despite all the attendant propaganda surrounding the issue.

Again, you chime in unwanted.

The public support for rail lines in those cities is great enough for the residents in the region to increase their own taxes to pay for more.

You completely fail to mention the densifying effect that well planned rail lines have on the areas they serve.

Idiots like you clamor for more road construction that reduces density and then throw up your hands in opposition to the construction of rail lines because the density doesn't support it.

Indianapolis can barely support two professional franchises, let alone three.

The Pacers require an eight figure annual subsidy from the CIB just to pay their bills, and would have relocated in the 1980s if not for the Simons stepping in to buy the team. The metro area size is sufficient for two teams, but the overall strength and loyalty of the fanbase is not. Irsay is going to go begging to the CIB when Peyton retires because the Luke will be a mausoleum on Sundays.

Indianapolis is a fast growing metro area in the context of the Midwest, but that growth is only moderate when compared nationally. Fast growing cities/metro areas such as Austin, Las Vegas, and Raleigh-Durham are more likely to get a team than Indianapolis.

Thanks, You are a little more thorough now, appreciate it. The realignment is in discussions now. I do think alot like you are about it all. The hockey thing I feel may be more of an immediate thought becuase of some of the warm climate cities, and one team(escapes me ) moving to Canada this past month. As we know these teams are about finances, and I would like to see a hockey team thrive in Indy, but we probably won't know for years to come, if at all. Thanks again.

The NHL Atlanta Thrashers are moving up north of the border to Winnipeg.

I too would love to see Major League hockey here in Indy. I grew up watching the Racers of the old WHA and listening to hockey Bob Lamey.

Ahhh....those were the good ode days!

Monument Circle needs to be programmed like a theatre. It needs a "producer" and a stable of directors and some set designers, not a new architect and a major remodel. It needs to become an experience, a happening, on top of being an already great space.

[rant off]

I keep battling in my head about whether I agree with this or not. A lot of people are throwing this out as a foregone conclusion, but I'm not so sure. (I definitely agree that it doesn't need a new architect or major remodel.)

Instead of asking ourselves how can we make the Circle more awesome or just how to get more people there, I think we need to ask ourselves what was the Circle actually designed to do? And is it meeting that function? How can we enhance its function?

The Circle as a performance venue approach has always seemed a bit forced, and in my opinion ends up creating a subpar experience. The space just wasn't designed to be a venue. And it doesn't lend itself to those experiences unless parts of downtown are shut off, which is the inelegant solution.

It was however, designed to be a place of reflection, respite, and leisure. But it doesn't support those functions very well right now. And that's what needs to be addressed. (Such as: There aren't any benches!)

I think we all agree that it needs to be a better gathering space, but is it through a constantly rotating event schedule or via a more organic fix-the-rest-of-downtown and get-more-people-to-live-here and for-gosh-sakes-give-people-some-benches-to-sit-on-and-some-bike-racks-while-you're-at-it, urban means? I'm beginning to support the latter. (Because I'd like to see people there all the time, not just at lunch time, or when a Shania Twain concert or Strawberry fest or some parade is happening. :-)

I noticed an interesting phenomenon this year before the 500 parade: The bleachers became hangouts for business people and tourists in the days before the parade and created a more Trafalgar Square (London) type of experience. People chilled around the Circle beyond lunch time because there were places to hang out and sit other than the stairs. (Imagine that!) That's the experience we need to aim for.

The Circle certainly needs better amenities to encourage public gathering. It should become the "lounge" of the great activities surrounding it, but not so much a constant concert/venue in and of itself, imho. :-)

^^
Just to clarify, I'm not saying no concerts, EVER. In my world, some concerts are allowed. ;-)

A somewhat misleadingly titled article by Erika Smith in today's Star, and I normally enjoy her writing:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110619/NEWS19/106190378/Erika-D-Smith-Indy-shrinks-plague-empty-homes-spreads?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

Center Township is shrinking, but Indianapolis definitely is not.

Perhaps if the state hadn't decided to cut tens of millions in funding for IPS, requiring the layoffs of hundred of teachers- Center Township would be a more desirable place to live. How can central Indianapolis be a desirable place for families if the school system is getting bled to death?

Articles like this make one realize that despite the high profile re-developments in Speedway, North of South, and the 16th Street Corridor, much of Center Township is in decline.

^^ Thank you for sharing that article, that was a very interesting read. Is the Indianapolis Land Grant responsible for the newly revitalized community that has sprung up along N Delaware and just south of the Fall Creek Trail?

^^ Thank you for sharing that article, that was a very interesting read. Is the Indianapolis Land Grant responsible for the newly revitalized community that has sprung up along N Delaware and just south of the Fall Creek Trail?

No. That redevelopment is called "Fall Creek Place". (Google it.) It started more than a decade ago.

The NHL Atlanta Thrashers are moving up north of the border to Winnipeg.

I too would love to see Major League hockey here in Indy. I grew up watching the Racers of the old WHA and listening to hockey Bob Lamey.

Ahhh....those were the good ode days!

I imagine that you saw a very young Wayne Gretzky playing, that is cool. Would love to see another franchise of some sort in 10 or 15 years.

A somewhat misleadingly titled article by Erika Smith in today's Star, and I normally enjoy her writing:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110619/NEWS19/106190378/Erika-D-Smith-Indy-shrinks-plague-empty-homes-spreads?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

Center Township is shrinking, but Indianapolis definitely is not.

Perhaps if the state hadn't decided to cut tens of millions in funding for IPS, requiring the layoffs of hundred of teachers- Center Township would be a more desirable place to live. How can central Indianapolis be a desirable place for families if the school system is getting bled to death?

Articles like this make one realize that despite the high profile re-developments in Speedway, North of South, and the 16th Street Corridor, much of Center Township is in decline.

I'm not trying to be offensive, but you really shouldn't need an article like this to realize that most of Center Township (as well as large portions of the other townships) is in decline. I noticed that within the Star comments, were many people calling for the Star to fire Erika Smith because she writes too many negative articles about the City. I found that sentiment of shooting the messenger to be ridiculously laughable.

I'm not an expert on school funding, but I don't think tens of millions more in the IPS budget would make much of a difference. When the enrollment drops precipitously, the funding, and the number of teachers, will drop proportionately.

Couple of updates:

The new restaurant that will be moving in where Bazbeaux used to be on Mass Avenue is going to be named Mass Mex.

They've started building the "point" on the NW corner of the new Neurosciences building at 16th and Senate. There are pieces of steel that are being constructed to angle out to the point. Hopefully it will add an interesting twist to the architecture. It will be the corner of the building that will be most visible for people coming by on I-65 as they are heading into the downtown area frorm the northwest.

The bricks are going up fairly quickly on the Waverly apartments expansion. There are two tones -- a yellowish and a light brown that add some nice variation with the other red brick structures nearby.

Yesterday's IBJ had a story saying that the owners of the Cosmopolitan are putting the complex up for sale. They either want to sell it outright or sell a portion of it and hang on to a portion of the ownership. They also want to sell the triangular piece of property to the south where there had been discussions about building "Cosmopolitan II". I don't know if they're just trying to gain additional money so they can build some other projects - or exactly what their reason is for wanting to sell. Here's the link to the story:

http://www.ibj.com/developer-puts-cosmopolitan-up-for-sale/PARAMS/article/27837

^^ still in Beijing. Pictures would be much appreciated if possible. I'm also finding to hear about or see any progress over at Trailside! Thanks in advance.

Couple of updates:

The new restaurant that will be moving in where Bazbeaux used to be on Mass Avenue is going to be named Mass Mex.

Cool! I hadn't heard about that.

I assume it's Mexican food? We're getting a recent influx of high profile Mexican Joints with 2 others in Fountain Square and 1 Broad Ripple.

Cool! I hadn't heard about that.

I assume it's Mexican food? We're getting a recent influx of high profile Mexican Joints with 2 others in Fountain Square and 1 Broad Ripple.

But they're not 100% authentic Mexican food. Much like the zillions of China Buffets in town that serve americanized Chinese food.

Yes. I had heard a few months ago that it was likely that a Mexican place would be moving in to the former Bazbeaux site - but just recently I saw a sign on the window that had the name listed. Not sure when they anticipate it will open. I'm definitely looking forward to La Margarita opening in Fountain Square. I keep driving by looking to see when they are going to start working on the outdoor dining area on the North side of their location in the Murphy Arts building. Should be nice to sit out there under the trees and enjoy a Margarita. Hopefully it will be ready by September.

BTW -- I haven't checked on this and hate to mention it without being sure -- but someone told me that Square Rootz Deli had shut down in Fountain Square. Anyone know if this is true? That's the crappy thing about building the Cultural Trail. It'll be nice once its done -- but during the construction - its terrible for the local businesses. Those businesses on the west side of Virginia -- like Naisa, Swank, Red Lion, etc ... I don't know how they're hanging on. I hope this construction doesn't run too far behind schedule. Originally I had heard they expected to be done by August -- but I can't see that happening. They need to be out there a whole lot more-- they should have two shifts per day going from 6 am - 10:00 pm to get that thing built. It seems to be going way too slow. I wonder if there were any penalties built into the contract for finishing behind schedule. If this thing ends up taking as long as the Mass Ave segment - it could be very bad news for a lot more of the local businesses.

Yes. I had heard a few months ago that it was likely that a Mexican place would be moving in to the former Bazbeaux site - but just recently I saw a sign on the window that had the name listed. Not sure when they anticipate it will open. I'm definitely looking forward to La Margarita opening in Fountain Square. I keep driving by looking to see when they are going to start working on the outdoor dining area on the North side of their location in the Murphy Arts building. Should be nice to sit out there under the trees and enjoy a Margarita. Hopefully it will be ready by September.

BTW -- I haven't checked on this and hate to mention it without being sure -- but someone told me that Square Rootz Deli had shut down in Fountain Square. Anyone know if this is true? That's the crappy thing about building the Cultural Trail. It'll be nice once its done -- but during the construction - its terrible for the local businesses. Those businesses on the west side of Virginia -- like Naisa, Swank, Red Lion, etc ... I don't know how they're hanging on. I hope this construction doesn't run too far behind schedule. Originally I had heard they expected to be done by August -- but I can't see that happening. They need to be out there a whole lot more-- they should have two shifts per day going from 6 am - 10:00 pm to get that thing built. It seems to be going way too slow. I wonder if there were any penalties built into the contract for finishing behind schedule. If this thing ends up taking as long as the Mass Ave segment - it could be very bad news for a lot more of the local businesses.

Yup, Square Rootz iz clozed. Jeff was a good guy, sad to him go.

I don't frequent Naisa, but from what I've seen, Red Lion is doing great. I'm not sure about Pure. Business has picked up bit by bit for them since opening, but I'm not sure if they can withstand the trail. Red Lion's lucky since they basically have another door right off the back parking lot.

I'm looking forward to trying Revolución soon, as well as La Margerita when it opens.

Also, in other neighborhood news, Black Market is opening for their first lunch tomorrow.

But they're not 100% authentic Mexican food. Much like the zillions of China Buffets in town that serve americanized Chinese food.

What's your fave Mex place Patty? I like this little spot a former coworker introduced me way out on E. 10 called Taqueria el Toluqueno. I also like the tortas spots in Speedway and FS. I'm not sure if the Tamale place on the west side counts as real Mexican, but they're damn good too.

That's the crappy thing about building the Cultural Trail. It'll be nice once its done -- but during the construction - its terrible for the local businesses. Those businesses on the west side of Virginia -- like Naisa, Swank, Red Lion, etc ... I don't know how they're hanging on. I hope this construction doesn't run too far behind schedule. Originally I had heard they expected to be done by August -- but I can't see that happening. They need to be out there a whole lot more-- they should have two shifts per day going from 6 am - 10:00 pm to get that thing built. It seems to be going way too slow. I wonder if there were any penalties built into the contract for finishing behind schedule. If this thing ends up taking as long as the Mass Ave segment - it could be very bad news for a lot more of the local businesses.

We're 8-10 inches over normal rainfall this year.

Construction contractors don't typically control the rain, nor do their workers work in it. Plus it's a lot harder to do digging and grading work in mud once the rain stops.

I drove past the Trailside over the weekend and there is still nothing above ground. There is some concrete foundation work going on and a lot of the dirt is gone but still nothing above ground.

We're 8-10 inches over normal rainfall this year.

Construction contractors don't typically control the rain, nor do their workers work in it. Plus it's a lot harder to do digging and grading work in mud once the rain stops.

True enough, but speaking from my insider's perspective, the trail is behind schedule on Washington street due to the utilities phase not being completed on shedule. Specifically, Brighthouse didn't move their lines, and claimed that they had, and it's wreaked havoc on scheduling. On Washington st. at least the delays largely aren't the fault of the rain.

I wonder if there's a lack of good leadership. I keep thinking of the failure of the Library commission to hire a project manager, which led to massive problems. It just seems that someone should have checked Brighthouse's work.

True enough, but speaking from my insider's perspective, the trail is behind schedule on Washington street due to the utilities phase not being completed on shedule. Specifically, Brighthouse didn't move their lines, and claimed that they had, and it's wreaked havoc on scheduling. On Washington st. at least the delays largely aren't the fault of the rain.

I wonder if there's a lack of good leadership. I keep thinking of the failure of the Library commission to hire a project manager, which led to massive problems. It just seems that someone should have checked Brighthouse's work.

So why'd the CM stop work when he discovered Brighthouse's error? He should just have dug right through a line. THAT would have gotten the work done fast.

So why'd the CM stop work when he discovered Brighthouse's error? He should just have dug right through a line. THAT would have gotten the work done fast.

Funny you say that.. That's exactly what Brighthouse would have done to anyone else... Their crews are the rude, inconsiderate, careless and at times flat-out dangerous. Someone's gonna get hurt before the trails's done..

Anyhoo, there are multiple contractors and municipal crews working on the trail. They don't seem to coordinate very well at all. This has to be due to a lack of leadership. They need one very experienced and influential project manager over everything. I don't see that. I see multiple managers bickering with each other and no one truly in charge.

What's your fave Mex place Patty? I like this little spot a former coworker introduced me way out on E. 10 called Taqueria el Toluqueno. I also like the tortas spots in Speedway and FS. I'm not sure if the Tamale place on the west side counts as real Mexican, but they're damn good too.

My favorite Mex place is El Puerto de San Blas located at 3564 Lafayette Road. Their specialty is seafood. Give it a try. I promise you will not be disappointed.

I love the Lafayette Road corridor....lots of different ethic restaurants that serve the real thing.

That area of town is definitely one of the hidden jewels of Indy with its diversity.

My favorite Mex place is El Puerto de San Blas located at 3564 Lafayette Road. Their specialty is seafood. Give it a try. I promise you will not be disappointed.

I love the Lafayette Road corridor....lots of different ethic restaurants that serve the real thing.

That area of town is definitely one of the hidden jewels of Indy with its diversity.

Cool, thanks for the recommendation! I grew up over thereabouts (Speedway) and had my car worked on at the Muffler and Tire shops right across the street. Never tried that spot though. I should've just turned around! :)

Speaking of seafood, I like the peruvian spot Machu Pichu around the corner on 38th. They have some good seafood soups.

Lafayette Square area is the bomb for food. King Wok is my fave restaurant in the city.

Food side note: went to Black Market on Mass with my pop yesterday for lunch. We both thought it was really good.

Someone *ahem* is suppose to be forwarding some photos to me of the projects on 16th street. ;-)

I also saw the curb cuts for 16th & Alabama on my way home from DT last night. There is quite a substantial amount of street being taken back for the bumpouts there. I am quite impressed how this was able to happen. We should be seeing this type of stuff everywhere.

Someone *ahem* is suppose to be forwarding some photos to me of the projects on 16th street. ;-)

I also saw the curb cuts for 16th & Alabama on my way home from DT last night. There is quite a substantial amount of street being taken back for the bumpouts there. I am quite impressed how this was able to happen. We should be seeing this type of stuff everywhere.
Agreed - amazing (and awesome!) how much street they're taking back with the bumpouts. What's crazy is how fast people continue to rip through the Delaware/16th jog during rush hour even though everybody has considerably less wiggle room. People are going to need to settle down or it's going to be bumper cars out there.

Someone *ahem* is suppose to be forwarding some photos to me of the projects on 16th street. ;-)

I also saw the curb cuts for 16th & Alabama on my way home from DT last night. There is quite a substantial amount of street being taken back for the bumpouts there. I am quite impressed how this was able to happen. We should be seeing this type of stuff everywhere.

Much of 16th St immediately north of downtown is two lanes in each direction. What are the boudaries of this project? In other words, what is the extent of the segment that will be one lane in each direction with bump outs and on-street parking?

Much of 16th St immediately north of downtown is two lanes in each direction. What are the boudaries of this project? In other words, what is the extent of the segment that will be one lane in each direction with bump outs and on-street parking?
As far as I know, all the bumpouts are doing is codifying the existing parking lanes on each side of the street. Because most streets have a hitch in them at 16th, the bumpouts can be quite large. Here's an example at Delaware:

http://www.urbantimesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/SEPT10_16thstreet.jpg

The three intersections with bumpouts that I've seen are:

Pennsylvania - 2 lanes southbound
Delaware - 3 lanes northbound
Alabama - 1 lane each direction

The whole project spans from Illinois to Central.

As far as I know, all the bumpouts are doing is codifying the existing parking lanes on each side of the street. Because most streets have a hitch in them at 16th, the bumpouts can be quite large.

The three intersections with bumpouts that I've seen are:
Pennsylvania - 2 lanes southbound
Delaware - 3 lanes northbound
Alabama - 1 lane each direction
The whole project spans from Illinois to Central.

Thanks. This is cool. Seems like it has more to do with chilling-out traffic along the North South arterials and allowing better East West pedestrian traffic. I misunderstood it to mean 16th was going to be reduced to one lane in each direction.

I would like to see a similar implementation along the same stretch of 22nd St. The North South arterials also have those same hitches, and as with 16th Street it should really be a quality pedestrian cooridor with apartments, small offices, and retail.

I just got back from a meeting with the main contractor for the Washington st. stretch of the Cultural trail. Demolition in front of the Conrad starts 2 weeks from today*. The Conrad people are so opposed to this that police officers will be on hand to make sure everything goes smoothly.

The Conrad will no longer be parking cars on the sidewalk or on the Cultural Trail. There will be no concessions made for them, they will have to use their Illinois street loading zone on the west side of their building. The mayor has spoken...

It's all pretty dramatic.. I'm gonna be down there when they break ground to see any fireworks that may happen.

* keep in mind that scheduling has been problematic for every other section of the trail. I'm just telling you what I was told.

True enough, but speaking from my insider's perspective, the trail is behind schedule on Washington street due to the utilities phase not being completed on shedule. Specifically, Brighthouse didn't move their lines, and claimed that they had, and it's wreaked havoc on scheduling. On Washington st. at least the delays largely aren't the fault of the rain.

I wonder if there's a lack of good leadership. I keep thinking of the failure of the Library commission to hire a project manager, which led to massive problems. It just seems that someone should have checked Brighthouse's work.

hi everyone - i've been reading this forum for a long time without posting. i love all of the input and the ability to stay updated on all of the urban issues i'm passionate about. indy is definitely heading in the right direction! i noticed several posts about the possibility of another sports franchise for indy and thought i would shamelessly plug a grassroots effort to bring major league soccer to indy (i believe someone else mentioned mls). here is a link to the facebook page and lots of info and ideas, feel free to share! i promise this is the only time i'll post something like this, just thought it was timely. we had all hoped to renovate bush stadium into a soccer stadium, but alas, apartments will have to do. looking forward to the changes coming to that corridor.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/MLStoIndy

I just got back from a meeting with the main contractor for the Washington st. stretch of the Cultural trail. Demolition in front of the Conrad starts 2 weeks from today*. The Conrad people are so opposed to this that police officers will be on hand to make sure everything goes smoothly.

The Conrad will no longer be parking cars on the sidewalk or on the Cultural Trail. There will be no concessions made for them, they will have to use their Illinois street loading zone on the west side of their building. The mayor has spoken...

It's all pretty dramatic.. I'm gonna be down there when they break ground to see any fireworks that may happen.

* keep in mind that scheduling has been problematic for every other section of the trail. I'm just telling you what I was told.

This is HUGE. Way to go Ballard!!!

Thanks. This is cool. Seems like it has more to do with chilling-out traffic along the North South arterials and allowing better East West pedestrian traffic. I misunderstood it to mean 16th was going to be reduced to one lane in each direction.

I would like to see a similar implementation along the same stretch of 22nd St. The North South arterials also have those same hitches, and as with 16th Street it should really be a quality pedestrian cooridor with apartments, small offices, and retail.
I totally agree that it would be nice to see them do the same thing on 22nd. Some of the intersections -- particularly Delaware -- already have some treatment to help pedestrians cross, but most do not.

I'd also take it a step further and argue that there should be bumpouts into 22nd street for north-south crossings as well. On-street parking is allowed on most of on 22nd from the western terminus at Capitol on east to College, but hardly anybody uses it -- except at Stuart Mortuary near Illinois and Tea's Me near Talbott -- so the street functions more like a 4-lane, 2-way street. There isn't enough traffic on 22nd to warrant that capacity and it might encourage developers to see bumpouts and parking space lines to know that there's a huge amount of parking available for retail on 22nd.

EDIT: this is also in contrast to 16th St, which has on-street parking almost nowhere.

Also: it looks like Axia Urban has started moving on rehabbing the old white building on the NW corner of Talbott and 22nd for apartments and retail. Left building in the picture on this page (the right building would be new construction and I don't know if they're planning to work on that right now):

http://talbottcommons.com/

I totally agree that it would be nice to see them do the same thing on 22nd. Some of the intersections -- particularly Delaware -- already have some treatment to help pedestrians cross, but most do not.

I'd also take it a step further and argue that there should be bumpouts into 22nd street for north-south crossings as well. On-street parking is allowed on most of on 22nd from the western terminus at Capitol on east to College, but hardly anybody uses it -- except at Stuart Mortuary near Illinois and Tea's Me near Talbott -- so the street functions more like a 4-lane, 2-way street. There isn't enough traffic on 22nd to warrant that capacity and it might encourage developers to see bumpouts and parking space lines to know that there's a huge amount of parking available for retail on 22nd.

EDIT: this is also in contrast to 16th St, which has on-street parking almost nowhere.

Also: it looks like Axia Urban has started moving on rehabbing the old white building on the NW corner of Talbott and 22nd for apartments and retail. Left building in the picture on this page (the right building would be new construction and I don't know if they're planning to work on that right now):

http://talbottcommons.com/

I've been told by someone in the know that the "old white building" (a former neighborhood drugstore) is under renovation and will have three living spaces up and commercial/retail/office space down.

I'd be cautious about tinkering too much with the width of pavement on 22nd until it's clear whether the Fishers rail line will be built and whether it will have a stop at 22nd. If so, 22nd west of the rail line would need a crosstown bus that would run to Capitol and down to Methodist and then west on 16th to connect with the industrial employers (Allison and Rolls Royce) and IMS in Speedway.

The experience with narrowing 10th Street has had the practical effect of making IndyGo buses into rolling barricades through the "streetscape zone" around the Boner Center. Even though there are designated and marked bus pull-offs, the drivers don't use them. Additionally, anyone turning left to a non-signallized side street (which is all of them except Jefferson) becomes a barricade, as does anyone pulling into or out of the parallel parking that is protected by the bump-outs. Finally, the winter effect of the bump outs is that pedestrians don't have anywhere to walk if the sidewalks aren't cleared. There isn't sufficient street width to do what is done everywhere else between Woodruff and Sherman: walk in the plowed part of the street next to the curb. I believe these are all unintended side effects.

When I rant about confusing "traffic choking" with "traffic calming", this is the very thing I'm talking about. Unintended or not, they are foreseeable. And not every business in a neighborhood is "neighborhood scale"; that is, some businesses in the neighborhood need additional shoppers from outside the walkable footprint to survive. The cluster at 10th & Rural is a perfect example: Financial Health credit union, Marathon gas station/c-store, Made for Each Other artspace, Metta Yoga studio, Little Green Bean, and Pogue's Run Grocer. All rely to a greater or lesser extent on people coming and going in cars or on bikes. (Otherwise, why would 10th St. need curbside parking?) If traffic is a headache for cars, it won't be safe for bikes either.

I'd have laid it out with parking on one side of 10th protected with bump-outs, with a center "multi use" lane for left turns and passing stopped cars and buses, and a small landscaped median on the no-parking side of the street. And I think I'd eventually do the same for 22nd, though with wider travel lanes (or maybe add bike lanes or wide sharrow lanes).

This was discussed in this forum a year or so ago -- when we were considering what would be good to replace the GM Metal Stamping plant on its site just southwest of downtown along the west side of the White River. Below is a link to the article about the Commission's recommendations for the 115 acre site - put together with help from the Urban Land Institute.

I like the idea -- but i'd be amazed if the site could get halfway filled in fifteen years - which is the timeframe mentioned in the article for a complete buildout of the site. I'm looking forward to seeing drawings of the plans - including where the pedestrian bridge is proposed to go. It definitely needs to be linked into the new BRT / light rail / (streetcar?) proposals that are being drawn up. Here is the article from the 6/24/2011 IBJ:

http://www.ibj.com/commission-turn-dying-gm-plant-into-vibrant-residential-neighborhood/PARAMS/article/27956

This was discussed in this forum a year or so ago -- when we were considering what would be good to replace the GM Metal Stamping plant on its site just southwest of downtown along the west side of the White River.

Yesterday our very own Urbanophile gave a speech in which he commented on the need for Indianapolis to develop unique neighborhoods outside of downtown to strengthen what he called the best downtown among Indianapolis' peer cities.

I don't think Aaron meant we should create a new neighborhood from scratch, which is what Mayor Hudnut's commission proposed for the GM site. I took Aaron to mean that the existing places with what he called a "thin layer" of revitalization should get much more investment from the City (better transit, infrastructure fixes, etc.) to become "real neighborhoods", identifiable in the way that neighborhoods in our peer cities are.

I'm back to this: yes, there should be a mix of uses, but the cornerstone of redevelopment at GM Stamping should be the creation of a new "Marion County Justice Center" with City dollars. Criminal courts, jails, public defender, Sheriff, IMPD HQ and prosecutor should all be there, in one complex. This would naturally draw bail bondsmen and criminal lawyers out of their current low-end digs around the City-County building; they would be the first wave of private investment or new tenants at the site.

Obviously this would have a domino effect on the east side of downtown along the Cultural Trail, Market Street, and Washington Street. (Maybe Angie's List would buy Jail II or APC to expand its campus into a real office building?)

It will come as no surprise that I think the Washington Street light rail or streetcar line should be built and routed past the site also.

Speaking of rail, the "dirty fact" about that site is the current freight rail line will need to remain active to serve the Citizens Thermal steam plant...so why not take advantage of the site's adjacency to both rail and Interstate by reusing some of it as logistics and manufacturing? That would create decent jobs; I think there will be some pretty contaminated parts of the site that are unsuitable for residential uses but perfectly fine for warehouses and factories.

I'd like to see the full report, but the "glossy cover" reported in the IBJ and Star and in Mayor Hudnut's comments on InsideIndianaBusiness.com sound like pretty standard New Urbanist cookie-cutter redevelopment with greenspace, artspace, and yuppie housing. Let's put that east of the CCB and City Market, and do the GM site differently.

Edited to add: the Powerpoint presentation is here (http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Mayor/Documents/GM%20Stamping%20Plant%20ULI%20Presentation%206.24.11.pdf).

I was blown away that Hudnut would really suggest an extension of the People Mover. I mean seriously, its already a bad service, inefficient and is elevated. Why would one even conceive of extending that? Propose a ground level streetcar.

Additionally, I was disturbed at the overall lack of attention to transit in the report. Sure, there were some mentions of the Indyconnect plan, and a proposed "stop" or something but it tells me that we still arent "getting" transit in this town by a wide margin. Additionally, why wouldn't they advise even higher density? There are a lot of single family homes recommended in the report. Why not even more multi-family housing?

On the plus side, at least the resemblence of a real street grid was shown, and I like the idea of a South Street bridge. Additionally, something that looked visually like what they proposed would be a great "place maker" for the new neighborhood.

However, overall, I would like to see investment put into our already existing neighborhoods. Why is this so hard to get? Is the GM plant a good place for re-use? Of course. But we should look at the examples like Fall Creek Place (although it too was SFH) and the SB Legacy stuff going on as great models for investing in our existing neighborhoods. If our city is going to invest taxpayer dollars, shouldnt we fix our existing hoods first before building new ones?

Can you say boom! I love a good implosion!

IndyStar Article (http://www.indystar.com/article/20110628/LOCAL18/106280320/Implosion-will-level-Keystone-Towers)

Im anxious to see what can be developed there.

Im anxious to see what can be developed there.
How about a "pretty standard New Urbanist cookie-cutter redevelopment with greenspace, artspace, and yuppie housing"? :wink2:

Well, one thing it wont come with is low parking requirements. Transit access is fairly limited there and it is surrounded by auto through-fares on nearly all sides. Could be a great opportunity to connect to bike lanes and create sidewalks to encourage more walking for residents to get to where they need to be. There was an old supermarket located close to there as well but its closed down. Crossing 46th street is probably difficult to manage as well.

Well, one thing it wont come with is low parking requirements. Transit access is fairly limited there and it is surrounded by auto through-fares on nearly all sides. Could be a great opportunity to connect to bike lanes and create sidewalks to encourage more walking for residents to get to where they need to be. There was an old supermarket located close to there as well but its closed down. Crossing 46th street is probably difficult to manage as well.

How about a 100% paved, giant drive-through fast-food cul-de-sac, with flanking Walgreen's and CVS stores at the entrance and a 12-pump Speedway somewhere in the mix? :lol:

That would be so totally in keeping with its first-ring suburban location near the corner of two busy six-lane arterials.

How about a "pretty standard New Urbanist cookie-cutter redevelopment with greenspace, artspace, and yuppie housing"? :wink2:

The $300 million Hudnut Solution. :nuts:

How about saving the buildings and turning them into a Jail/Justice Center? City already owns 'em. :lol:

How about a 100% paved, giant drive-through fast-food cul-de-sac, with flanking Walgreen's and CVS stores at the entrance and a 12-pump Speedway somewhere in the mix? :lol:

That would be so totally in keeping with its first-ring suburban location near the corner of two busy six-lane arterials.

Dont forget skyscraper-esque in height utility poles flanking the entire perimeter of the property. Gotta do things right here

Dont forget skyscraper-esque in height utility poles flanking the entire perimeter of the property. Gotta do things right here

Sure, but only if they're stuck in the middle of sidewalks.

Congratulations to Greg Meckstroth for his submission in the Circle Makeover competition. His submittal won the People's Choice award which was just announced earlier today. Its too bad he no longer lives in Indianapolis - as he recently moved to Philadelphia. He's a real sharp, intelligent and hard working guy. He won $1,000 for his entry. That'll be nice to help him with moving into his new place in Philly. Again --- Congrats Greg. (FYI -- He writes the "Urban Out" blog that is linked in several local blogs.)

I just got back from a meeting with the main contractor for the Washington st. stretch of the Cultural trail. Demolition in front of the Conrad starts 2 weeks from today*. The Conrad people are so opposed to this that police officers will be on hand to make sure everything goes smoothly.

The Conrad will no longer be parking cars on the sidewalk or on the Cultural Trail. There will be no concessions made for them, they will have to use their Illinois street loading zone on the west side of their building. The mayor has spoken...

It's all pretty dramatic.. I'm gonna be down there when they break ground to see any fireworks that may happen.

* keep in mind that scheduling has been problematic for every other section of the trail. I'm just telling you what I was told.

Wow! I'm in a state of delighted shock. This is completely the opposite of what I was told at a public meeting last year, where the design team indicated that the Conrad would be able to park cars over top of the bike lane portion of the Trail and that bikes would have to shift over to the sidewalk, walk their bikes, jump into the street or whatever, because the Administration had told them not to do anything that interfered with the Conrad's business as usual.

I hope what you've reported actually comes to fruition.

However, overall, I would like to see investment put into our already existing neighborhoods. Why is this so hard to get? Is the GM plant a good place for re-use? Of course. But we should look at the examples like Fall Creek Place (although it too was SFH) and the SB Legacy stuff going on as great models for investing in our existing neighborhoods. If our city is going to invest taxpayer dollars, shouldnt we fix our existing hoods first before building new ones?

I couldn't agree more. Until there is the slightest bit of a housing shortage within the 2 or 3-mile radius of the Circle, it makes no sense to attempt to create a new neighborhood. Although it's not completely a zero-sum game, the residents of the new neighborhood will take away potential homebuyers and renters from existing urban neighborhoods where additional demand is needed to raise property values to a sustainable level that make it financially worthwhile to invest in appropriate maintenance and property upgrades.

(Did that make sense? If home values are too low, owners don't make investments in them because they won't see a proportionate return if/when they sell the property, which accelerates the deterioration of neighborhoods with below replacement cost values. I hope I elaborated that in a way that makes sense.)

We'll see next week. All I know is what the contractor (linkel) told me. The Conrad people are furious and I'm sure are fighting tooth and nail.

We'll see next week. All I know is what the contractor (linkel) told me. The Conrad people are furious and I'm sure are fighting tooth and nail.

Let them. They're making shite-tons of money from our conventions and tourists and this decision will not affect their bottom line one bit. We run our streets (we'll put utility poles in our sidewalks if we want to, dammit!), not them. :)

Moochie, you made my day when you first posted the news, btw.

Congrats to Greg Meckstroth! He contributed to Urban Indy as well before he decided to seek greener pastures.

It's too bad Greg left because Indy isn't doing enough to keep young, bright folks like him around. I got a text message from him the other day and he said he takes a 15 minute train ride in to work every day. Must be nice.