City just approved more reverse angle parking for the north side of Michigan St. (from New Jersey to East). Granted, it's not that much, but more of it is nice to see.

Nifty little one page graphic about it here (http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DPW/RebuildIndy/Documents/RevAngleParkPost36x24.pdf). (PDF)

From the RebuildIndy email:
"New Parking Method Implemented Downtown
Motorists looking for a parking spot on some downtown streets will soon notice a new method of parking. In a unanimous vote, the City-County Council approved Reverse Angle Parking on the north side of Michigan Street from New Jersey Street to East Street.
With Reverse Angle Parking drivers are able to see a parking space before backing into it, a safer option than traditional, diagonal parking. Reverse Angle Parking also affords better visibility when motorists are leaving a parking space. "

^^ I really don't want to see anything that looks like the "Cultural Trail" on the Circle. The Circle should not have all kinds of separations telling bikers to go here, walkers to go here, cars to go here, etc. It should just be a slow area where people and all types of vehicles generally mix together and look out for each other -- integrated with the beauty of the monument and the fountains in the heart of downtown. It'll be great to be able to sit on the steps and short limestone walls again. Hopefully they'll open things up again soon once they get Miss Liberty back on top of the Monument.

It will certainly be an interesting design exercise for many reasons, let alone integrating the Trail.

The Circle can be labeled part of the Cultural Trail without some weird, awkward configuration of heavily segregated concentric circles for each mode of travel. :)

Perhaps that's what you're envisioning as detrimental?

I would imagine the approach will be creating a combined trail around the perimeter. The sidewalks will be updated to reflect that bicycles are just as welcome as everyone else with a nice organic buffer between auto lanes and Trail. Even if they do use the split trail approach, people will still walk on the bike path, just like they do everywhere else the trail is already built and vice versa. :)

Why spend more money for special pavers and such to match the trail? It already operates pretty fantastically. Spend the money on something else that is underperforming

The Circle will have to be rebuilt regardless. It's falling apart beneath.

The Circle will have to be rebuilt regardless. It's falling apart beneath.

Im not arguing that point. Just the point of spending a bunch of money on bike/pedestrian separated style of construction.

Besides, it might give the columbia club s chance to add to the "parking on the trail" that the conrad is doing
/sarcasm

;)

Here's a nice summary of what's going on with the bike hub at City Market. They will be officially opening their doors to the new place on September 7th and are having a grand opening event on Wednesday, September 14th. Here's more details:

http://www.indymca.org/branches/indy-bike-hub/branch-news/

The New Indy Bike Hub YMCA!
The YMCA is excited to bring you a new kind of Y! Enjoy a Bicycle Commuter Hub and a YMCA all conveniently located under one roof. We are excited about our collaborations with the City of Indianapolis and the City Market, as well as a relationship with Bicycle Garage Indy (BGI), who will be occupying some of our space with a full service bike shop and some bicycle-related retail and rentals!

So, if you are looking to improve your health and well-being and/or want to improve your “green outlook” by bicycling to work-we are just the place for you!

Opening Date: The Indy Bike Hub YMCA will open its doors on September 7! Our Grand Opeing Celebration willl be Wednesday September 14! Get excited, because we are!! Check back on our website often for updates and visit us on Facebook for picture updates.

Membership Rates:We have started pre-selling membership for the Indy Bike Hub YMCA at the City Market! We can be found in the City Marekt across from the Dottie’s Kitchen and next to Just Cookies Monday-Friday 11 a.m.-1 p.m.! Once the doors open in September, we can be found in our new home! Now through the end of September, all joining fees will be waived! That’s up to a $100 savings!!!! There’s no time like now to join the Indy Bike Hub YMCA @ the City Market! We’ll see you soon!

Our new YMCA will feature:

Conveniently located next to the historic City Market—great place to grab breakfast or lunch while satisfying the inner “foodie” in you!
Safe, secure, indoor bicycle parking
Bicycle Garage Indy’s Expertise—a full service shop on site will offer repairs, sales, and bicycle rentals
Some of the best things a YMCA offers
Cardio and strength equipment
Group Exercise classes like strength and conditioning, Zumba, kickboxing, cycle classes and more
Wellness Coaching—we will help create a fitness program just for you
Nutritional Coaching
Personal Training
Full service locker rooms, including towel service
Free Wallet/Purse Lockers
WiFi Lounge
Classes, clinics, and special events
Home to bicycling advocacy groups and the IMPD Cycle Patrol

City just approved more reverse angle parking for the north side of Michigan St. (from New Jersey to East). Granted, it's not that much, but more of it is nice to see.

Nifty little one page graphic about it here (http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DPW/RebuildIndy/Documents/RevAngleParkPost36x24.pdf). (PDF)

From the RebuildIndy email:
"New Parking Method Implemented Downtown
Motorists looking for a parking spot on some downtown streets will soon notice a new method of parking. In a unanimous vote, the City-County Council approved Reverse Angle Parking on the north side of Michigan Street from New Jersey Street to East Street.
With Reverse Angle Parking drivers are able to see a parking space before backing into it, a safer option than traditional, diagonal parking. Reverse Angle Parking also affords better visibility when motorists are leaving a parking space. "

That block has been lined for reverse-angle parking for a few days now. Unfortunately, there is no sign of the promised work on the curbs that would allow elimination of the one-block gap in the Michigan Street bike lane.

Here's a link to a story that was in the Wall Street Journal last week about industry hubs that help encourage job growth in different locations around the U.S. Indianapolis is one of the seven cities featured in the article, as its growth in the Life Sciences industry is discussed.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903341404576484240498824846.html?mod=wsj_share_tweet%20&utm_source=exacttarget&utm_medium=email

Here's a link to a story that was in the Wall Street Journal last week about industry hubs that help encourage job growth in different locations around the U.S. Indianapolis is one of the seven cities featured in the article, as its growth in the Life Sciences industry is discussed.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903341404576484240498824846.html?mod=wsj_share_tweet%20&utm_source=exacttarget&utm_medium=email
I read that article last week and it seems like a weird take on Indy. What the hell does Wellpoint have to do with life sciences? I suppose you can draw a financial line from Health Insurance --> Hospital --> Medical School --> Medical Research, but that's quite a stretch. Is Wellpoint directly investing in life science startups or research? The article doesn't specifically say and I would doubt it.

The September Urban Times is out. Along with the cover story on the North Lockerbie project at College and Michigan - there is a story on the new live music venue called "Pioneer" in Fountain Square. Construction on the addition (being built adjacent to the existing building that formerly was the home of Dean's Vino) is supposed to start in approximately a month. The live music part of the place will be able to hold about 450 people. There will also be a restaurant / bar.

I couldn't find the article in the on-line edition of the Urban Times so I'm not able to provide a link. I guess you'll have to pick up a copy. The article includes a drawing of what the expansion will look like. Its definitely not an attempt to recreate an historic look just like the adjacent building. It seems to have a more modern twist with its style. It has various materials including what looks like steel panels and some stone, I believe. Its hard to tell for sure from the black and white drawing. The article also states that the developer got some of his ideas for the concept for this place from a similar development in Portland, OR. Anyone else have any insight into this project?

The September Urban Times is out. Along with the cover story on the North Lockerbie project at College and Michigan - there is a story on the new live music venue called "Pioneer" in Fountain Square. Construction on the addition (being built adjacent to the existing building that formerly was the home of Dean's Vino) is supposed to start in approximately a month. The live music part of the place will be able to hold about 450 people. There will also be a restaurant / bar.

I couldn't find the article in the on-line edition of the Urban Times so I'm not able to provide a link. I guess you'll have to pick up a copy. The article includes a drawing of what the expansion will look like. Its definitely not an attempt to recreate an historic look just like the adjacent building. It seems to have a more modern twist with its style. It has various materials including what looks like steel panels and some stone, I believe. Its hard to tell for sure from the black and white drawing. The article also states that the developer got some of his ideas for the concept for this place from a similar development in Portland, OR. Anyone else have any insight into this project?
It was approved by IHPC back in March. The staff report was pretty short on details at the time but it does have a color picture of the exterior metal material to be used:

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/IHPC/Hearings/Documents/2010-COA-588.pdf

Urban Times has profiled the Whitsett Group plans for College/Michigan land:

http://www.urbantimesonline.com/2011/09/north-lockerbie-development-resurfaces/

They've got a mockup aerial of the project:

http://www.urbantimesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/SEPT11_whitsett_2.jpg

It seems very typical that the most ambitious part of the project -- building C, the grocery store on the corner that's catching everybody's attention -- is the part that has no timetable or financing yet. I also find it odd that they're proposed 5 stories for the two more "interior" buildings but the one right on the corner of College/Michigan would be just 3 stories.

I also find it odd that they're proposed 5 stories for the two more "interior" buildings but the one right on the corner of College/Michigan would be just 3 stories.

It makes sense to me. The grocery and commercial space will want to be visible from College, and residents will want to be in the middle of the block, away from traffic.

Is that green line through the middle an existing road or alley, a new road, or a pedestrian path?

Worth viewing Victory on ground on N side of Circle.

Worth viewing Victory on ground on N side of Circle.

Agreed.

I totally want to create a full-scale replica. And then put it up in a nearby downtown park or along the canal so people can actually see her details up close like this all the time. It's like we're actually getting to see the heart of the city, which is so cool.

Urban Times has profiled the Whitsett Group plans for College/Michigan land:

http://www.urbantimesonline.com/2011/09/north-lockerbie-development-resurfaces/

They've got a mockup aerial of the project:

http://www.urbantimesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/SEPT11_whitsett_2.jpg

It seems very typical that the most ambitious part of the project -- building C, the grocery store on the corner that's catching everybody's attention -- is the part that has no timetable or financing yet. I also find it odd that they're proposed 5 stories for the two more "interior" buildings but the one right on the corner of College/Michigan would be just 3 stories.

The building across the street to the south is a single-story corner-commercial building (Reed Drapery Cleaners & Lockerbie Pub). Across College is a 2.5 story building containing the 501 Bar and just to its north is a 3-story apartment. To the north is the former church complex into which A2SO4 will move, and it's the equivalent of 3-4 stories. To the west, the Park Ave. townhomes are also three stories. South of Lockerbie Pub is a block of 1-2 story buildings.

I think it's a matter of respecting the development's southern surroundings and tapering up toward the greater mass/bulk of the former Real Silk factories to the north.

The red lines appear to be the places where on-street parking is not allowed on that side of the street.

Agreed.

I totally want to create a full-scale replica. And then put it up in a nearby downtown park or along the canal so people can actually see her details up close like this all the time. It's like we're actually getting to see the heart of the city, which is so cool.

I watched them bring it in and stand it up. It really is a jewel.. a true piece of classic European sculpture in the heart of Indiana. It's amazing thing to see in person really. Such a rarity in the USA. If you don't take the time to view it while it's there, you're really missing something unique to this continent.

But I do have my irreverent side... Her eyes are huge up close! and there's a bird squatting on her head... I had though it was a helmet with wings.. but no, it's an eagle... what the hell?

And I've always loved that Lady Victory faces South. Yes, that's a torch in her outstretched hand.. but we all know that's only because they couldn't get away with her extending her middle finger.. Maybe that's the symbolism of the bird squatting on her head next to her extended hand? She's flipping the bird to the South?

The building across the street to the south is a single-story corner-commercial building (Reed Drapery Cleaners & Lockerbie Pub). Across College is a 2.5 story building containing the 501 Bar and just to its north is a 3-story apartment. To the north is the former church complex into which A2SO4 will move, and it's the equivalent of 3-4 stories. To the west, the Park Ave. townhomes are also three stories. South of Lockerbie Pub is a block of 1-2 story buildings.

I think it's a matter of respecting the development's southern surroundings and tapering up toward the greater mass/bulk of the former Real Silk factories to the north.

The red lines appear to be the places where on-street parking is not allowed on that side of the street.
The Lockerbie Park plans had an IHPC-approved 4 story building scheduled for that corner. I don't think it's unreasonable in an urban setting for 4 to 5 story buildings to coexists across the street from one and two story buildings. It happens all over downtown. I think it's too much "respect" to lower the density of a project to match a one story building.

By Lady Victory giving the bird to the south, do you mean the Southside of Indy or the Southern United States. I hope you mean the latter.

... I totally want to create a full-scale replica. And then put it up in a nearby downtown park or along the canal so people can actually see her details up close like this all the time. It's like we're actually getting to see the heart of the city, which is so cool.
I agree. I think the thing is more effective on the ground than on top of the monument.
It is reminiscent of this:
http://history1800s.about.com/od/tothenewworld/ig/The-Statue-of-Liberty/Torch-of-the-Statue-of-Liberty.htm
and
http://www.treebase.com/historydash/index.cfm?ItemID=8E9DA0C9-15C5-FC25-8CD896F974DBB6BD

Also, it shows the effect on the viewer of bringing a large image down to ground level from higher up: if Fred Wilson's E Pluribus Unum were built, it would also be oversized and beautiful.

http://blogs.artinfo.com/modernartnotes/files/2010/10/IndySandSdetail.jpg

http://blogs.artinfo.com/modernartnotes/files/2011/07/WilsonEPluribusUnumRendering.jpg

I agree. I think the thing is more effective on the ground than on top of the monument.
It is reminiscent of this:
http://history1800s.about.com/od/tothenewworld/ig/The-Statue-of-Liberty/Torch-of-the-Statue-of-Liberty.htm
and
http://www.treebase.com/historydash/index.cfm?ItemID=8E9DA0C9-15C5-FC25-8CD896F974DBB6BD

Also, it shows the effect on the viewer of bringing a large image down to ground level from higher up: if Fred Wilson's E Pluribus Unum were built, it would also be oversized and beautiful.

http://blogs.artinfo.com/modernartnotes/files/2010/10/IndySandSdetail.jpg

http://blogs.artinfo.com/modernartnotes/files/2011/07/WilsonEPluribusUnumRendering.jpg

Don't get me started on Fred Wilson's brilliant piece. I'm so frustrated it's in jeopardy.

By Lady Victory giving the bird to the south, do you mean the Southside of Indy or the Southern United States. I hope you mean the latter.

Surely you jest.

She loves Indy, and she faces south for a reason.

She faces south to welcome home the union troops from the civil war, or so I thought.

Also, Can we please incorporate the Fred Wilson project somewhere DT. It is a great piece and worthy of display and discussion. If the city restricts this artistic idea, we have moved backwards so many years and the entire CT should be removed.

http://img172.exs.cx/img172/1650/solocomolauna0uo.gif

There are plenty of things going on -- just nothing too controversial (unless we want to get into the whole Cultural Trail thing in front of the Conrad again ...). Two of the projects I have been watching closely are a few of the new restaurants being developed. "The Libertine" on E. Washington next to the former "Hue" restaurant appears to be getting closer to being built out and, based on the fancy calligraphy on the door with some type of quote about a sommelier, it looks like it could be an excellent place to have a top notch drink and some well prepared food. The new mediterranean sea food place at the NE corner of New Jersey and Wabash is going to be a pretty big place. The walls appear close to being completed and it looks like it will be about a 4,000 - 5,000 sq. foot space. I'm curious if the space to the south and adjacent to the building will be for a cool outdoor patio space (or if it will just be for parking :( )

Twenty Tap is open at 54th & College. I havent been in yet, but a couple guys from Urban Indy are getting cozy with the offerings there, so I suspect its a pretty good joint to visit.

There are plenty of things going on -- just nothing too controversial (unless we want to get into the whole Cultural Trail thing in front of the Conrad again ...). Two of the projects I have been watching closely are a few of the new restaurants being developed. "The Libertine" on E. Washington next to the former "Hue" restaurant appears to be getting closer to being built out and, based on the fancy calligraphy on the door with some type of quote about a sommelier, it looks like it could be an excellent place to have a top notch drink and some well prepared food. The new mediterranean sea food place at the NE corner of New Jersey and Wabash is going to be a pretty big place. The walls appear close to being completed and it looks like it will be about a 4,000 - 5,000 sq. foot space. I'm curious if the space to the south and adjacent to the building will be for a cool outdoor patio space (or if it will just be for parking :( )

Neil Brown tweeted last night that The Libertine was open for business...more here: http://twitter.com/#!/NealjBrown (http://twitter.com/#!/NealjBrown)

There are plenty of things going on -- just nothing too controversial (unless we want to get into the whole Cultural Trail thing in front of the Conrad again ...). Two of the projects I have been watching closely are a few of the new restaurants being developed. "The Libertine" on E. Washington next to the former "Hue" restaurant appears to be getting closer to being built out and, based on the fancy calligraphy on the door with some type of quote about a sommelier, it looks like it could be an excellent place to have a top notch drink and some well prepared food. The new mediterranean sea food place at the NE corner of New Jersey and Wabash is going to be a pretty big place. The walls appear close to being completed and it looks like it will be about a 4,000 - 5,000 sq. foot space. I'm curious if the space to the south and adjacent to the building will be for a cool outdoor patio space (or if it will just be for parking :( )

If you didn't know, The Libertine is the new project of Pizzology's owner. :) They had a soft opening Friday. A few friends went and said it's great. The interior design is supposed to be great too.

I've noticed a few Retail Roundup type items downtown:

A prime storefront on the Circle on the corner of W Market has opened up next to Ossip. It used to be First Internet Bank I believe. Effing gorgeous building and primo space for hopefully something other than an office. It looks like it could be divided up into a couple of storefronts easily. (I was also recently told that building was the first parking garage/office combo in the state.) I'd love to see a nice upscale bar or restaurant go in there. Something nightlife related.

One of the crappy-looking bail bonds shops on Delaware looks to have moved out. Recently biked by with my wife and we noticed it had been gutted.

Former home of Sage on Mass Ave next to the Flying Cupcake has an orange permit sign and notice of liquor license transfer. Looks like it will be a new watering hole. Super narrow space, so that will be interesting.

Neil Brown tweeted last night that The Libertine was open for business...more here: http://twitter.com/#!/NealjBrown (http://twitter.com/#!/NealjBrown)

Nice!

There are plenty of things going on -- just nothing too controversial (unless we want to get into the whole Cultural Trail thing in front of the Conrad again ...). ...
Paver laying is almost done immediately east of the Conrad, waiting on trench-drain metal grate and slotted? pavers that will cover it. Over the weekend, parking in front of the Conrad was perpendicular.

Indy'd: "She faces south to welcome home the union troops from the civil war, or so I thought."

Yep -- that's what I've always understood as the reason she was put up there facing south.

Also --- Welcome Indy'd ! Good to have you joining the Indy threads (and anywhere else you may want to post a comment).

Let's be honest: the purpose of IDI's list is to show monetary investment in downtown, hence the summations all throughout their project list. The investment on many of these projects is long over and done with even if sales are on-going.

And going further: aren't they using poor investments (residential projects that don't sell) to boost the investment statistics for downtown? Straight boosterism.

Amen. Chatham Kynett Court (or whatever). 11 units started in 2005, expected to be occupied next year? I wonder how long they've been saying that.

Anyway, my question is: why do the taxpayers continue to fund this pablum?

Reverse Angle parking & repainted bike lanes on NY
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6197/6103144848_788aa0dc0d_z.jpg


This picture really illustrates the basic theory that I recently came up with that summarizes the biggest problem with the design of Indy bike lanes, most notably N.Y. & Michigan through downtown. Note how the right turn lane exists left of the bike lane and then essentially rams through the bike lane, or perhaps more accurately said, the bike lane is forced to abruptly veer through the existing right turn lane. This is not a recipe for giving bicyclists the right-of-way as drivers and bicyclists must cross paths, green paint or not.

The rule that should be adopted in striping these bike lanes is that a vehicle lane never crosses through the bike lane. A right turn lane should only begin to the right of the bike lane. If this were done, drivers would always recognize that they need to safely and politely cross the bicyclists established space (lane) in order to access the right turn lane. The way it's done in this photo, the driver is already in a right turn lane, which leads the driver to believe they are entitled to proceed through the bike lane because it (the bike lane) is passing through the existing vehicle right turn lane.

There are numerous examples where the bike lane and established vehicle lanes cross paths, but I don't think it needs to be that way. I recognize that the curb-to-curb street widths vary from block to block, however, if an existing vehicle travel lane must end it should end on the left side of the street, either as a left turn lane or as a lane merge. This theory was quite a revelation for me because we all know these bike lanes are not nearly what they should be, but I don't know that anybody has ever expressed such a simple rule that would make the bike lanes and overall road layout considerably safer and much less confusing. I'm curious about everyone else's thoughts. Does this make sense to anyone?

The rule that should be adopted in striping these bike lanes is that a vehicle lane never crosses through the bike lane. A right turn lane should only begin to the right of the bike lane....

There are numerous examples where the bike lane and established vehicle lanes cross paths, but I don't think it needs to be that way. I recognize that the curb-to-curb street widths vary from block to block, however, if an existing vehicle travel lane must end it should end on the left side of the street, either as a left turn lane or as a lane merge. This theory was quite a revelation for me because we all know these bike lanes are not nearly what they should be, but I don't know that anybody has ever expressed such a simple rule that would make the bike lanes and overall road layout considerably safer and much less confusing. I'm curious about everyone else's thoughts. Does this make sense to anyone?

I don't get how ending a vehicle lane on the left side of the street will make any difference on the right side of the street. Right-turning cars will always cross a bike lane that's on the right side of the street regardless of how the stripes are painted or where they are.

It will take a full generation before people always look for bikes on their right when turning right.

If you didn't know, The Libertine is the new project of Pizzology's owner. :) They had a soft opening Friday. A few friends went and said it's great. The interior design is supposed to be great too.

I've noticed a few Retail Roundup type items downtown:

A prime storefront on the Circle on the corner of W Market has opened up next to Ossip. It used to be First Internet Bank I believe. Effing gorgeous building and primo space for hopefully something other than an office. It looks like it could be divided up into a couple of storefronts easily. (I was also recently told that building was the first parking garage/office combo in the state.) I'd love to see a nice upscale bar or restaurant go in there. Something nightlife related.

One of the crappy-looking bail bonds shops on Delaware looks to have moved out. Recently biked by with my wife and we noticed it had been gutted.

Former home of Sage on Mass Ave next to the Flying Cupcake has an orange permit sign and notice of liquor license transfer. Looks like it will be a new watering hole. Super narrow space, so that will be interesting.



Very excited about Libertine!

I heard the old HUE space is already planned for conversion into a higher end "pizza" place

The old Sage location will be called Marteenies, with the name playing on the fact that the space is very small.

I don't get how ending a vehicle lane on the left side of the street will make any difference on the right side of the street. Right-turning cars will always cross a bike lane that's on the right side of the street regardless of how the stripes are painted or where they are.

It will take a full generation before people always look for bikes on their right when turning right.

The difference would be that to make a right turn, a driver would have to knowingly and affirmatively make a lane change instead of just continuing in a lane that crosses through the bike lane. Take another second to look at the photo and ask yourself "Why are two lanes criss-crossing each other?" I haven't seen bike lanes designed this way in any other cities.

This picture really illustrates the basic theory that I recently came up with that summarizes the biggest problem with the design of Indy bike lanes, most notably N.Y. & Michigan through downtown. Note how the right turn lane exists left of the bike lane and then essentially rams through the bike lane, or perhaps more accurately said, the bike lane is forced to abruptly veer through the existing right turn lane. This is not a recipe for giving bicyclists the right-of-way as drivers and bicyclists must cross paths, green paint or not.

...snip...


Check this out... page 20 (http://www.activelivingresources.org/assets/chicagosbikelanedesignguide.pdf) of the Chicago Bike Lane Design Guide. Maybe it's a skewed version of the Chicago standard?

Well one thing is for sure, it is difficult to design lanes period through that stretch. Even without the bike lanes, there would be a lot of shifting for cars to do. Im glad to see the stripes back on the street because before, it was a case of who got to what part of the street first and stayed there. the lines were non-existent through the construction phase.

The difference would be that to make a right turn, a driver would have to knowingly and affirmatively make a lane change instead of just continuing in a lane that crosses through the bike lane. Take another second to look at the photo and ask yourself "Why are two lanes criss-crossing each other?" I haven't seen bike lanes designed this way in any other cities.

Again...I don't know how you'd do otherwise downtown where there are "right turn only" lanes in blocks with partial street parking (something for which most of us advocate where there aren't tree lawns as ped buffers).

[Converting all the one-ways to two-ways isn't one of your choicies.] :)

In most locations on one-ways, drivers have to TURN across the lane rather than shifting across it, which I believe to be more dangerous for cyclists. If a driver is merely shifting across the bike lane, s/he's concerned only with bike and car traffic moving the same direction. If the driver is turning right, his/her attention is on a light, on crossing car traffic, on ped crossing. I actually think the Indy design might be safer for cyclists once people adjust.

Compare NY and Penn (in the picture) or Michigan and College with any intersection on NY or Michigan east of Oriental to see what I mean. Highlighting the point of conflict and moving it back from the intersection probably promotes cyclist safety.

Do we know how many car-bike accidents there have been since the bike lanes were installed on Michigan and New York, and where they were? Having that data, along with some estimate of "bikes per day" through each area, would settle the argument.

From IBJ

The Indianapolis Cultural Trail and the downtown Conrad Indianapolis hotel were on a collision course as soon as trail planners announced three years ago that the route would travel along the north side of heavily traveled Washington Street.

Conrad officials didn't want the trail because it would interrupt the hotel's valet operation, and they argued the bike and pedestrian path should be moved to another street or the other side of Washington Street.

"We had to find something that would maintain the trail and still work for the Conrad," said Brian Payne, president of the Central Indiana Community Foundation and the trail's champion. "It was a very challenging set of negotiations that went on for more than a year."

The Conrad question, he said, has been the most challenging planning dilemma yet for the entire 8-mile trail.

The end result of the negotiations: A brick-paved "intersection plaza" in front of the high-end hotel, with traffic bollards, and signs warning pedestrians to use caution and bikers to dismount and walk their bikes. The plaza is finished but the rest of the trail along Washington Street remains under construction.

The pavers in front of the Conrad are distinct from the rest of the trail, essentially creating a pause in the path. Payne said he fought to use the same pavers as the rest of the trail, while allowing space for the Conrad to handle parking and check-in, but hotel officials disagreed.

The compromise is designed for the safety of both hotel guests and Cultural Trail users, said Greg Tinsley, Conrad's general manager.

The hotel's valet staff will keep fewer cars parked in front of the hotel and will no longer park cars at an angle, opting instead for parallel parking to keep an opening for trail users, Tinsley said.

"We certainly embrace the opportunity to have the trail come in front of the Conrad," Tinsley said. "We think it's great for the city and hope it gets a lot of use."

The hotel has even ordered six beach-cruiser bikes to loan out to hotel guests.

But the compromise doesn't sit well with urban planners and bicycling enthusiasts like Curt Ailes, who writes for the Urban Indy blog.

Ailes sees the stretch of the trail in front of the Conrad as a blemish on an otherwise world-class project, a short-sighted move to prioritize service for cars over pedestrians and bicyclists.

Where else in the city is a business allowed to park cars on a sidewalk? he asked.

"In terms of increasing alternative forms of mobility, I felt like we lost a battle," Ailes said. "I don't see the big need to keep a bunch of luxury cars parked out on the sidewalk. Ten years from now, they're going to think they should've gotten out of the way of progress. Maybe their guests will want to use the trail, and wonder why all the cars are there."

Ailes also is miffed at the rapid speed of construction for the portion of the trail in front of the Conrad, while work on the stretch in Fountain Square has dragged on for months, dealing a blow to smaller, less influential businesses.

Payne, who dreamed up the idea for the trail, admits the Conrad solution is not ideal. But he says the hotel is the most significant spot where the trail "affects a business in an ongoing nature."

He's seen much "more challenging" moments along trails he's biked all over the world.

"It compromises someone's experience for about 10 seconds, and it doesn't ruin the experience," Payne said of the Conrad portion of the Trail. "It's a minor inconvenience on the best urban trail in the world."

"The hotel's valet staff will keep fewer cars parked in front of the hotel and will no longer park cars at an angle, opting instead for parallel parking to keep an opening for trail users, Tinsley said."

P A R A L L E L.... phhhbbtt.

"Where else in the city is a business allowed to park cars on a sidewalk? he asked."

One block South on Illinois in front of the Canterbury

http://indianapolisparking.net/ct7.jpg

From IBJ

The Indianapolis Cultural Trail and the downtown Conrad Indianapolis hotel were on a collision course as soon as trail planners announced three years ago that the route would travel along the north side of heavily traveled Washington Street.
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The compromise is designed for the safety of both hotel guests and Cultural Trail users, said Greg Tinsley, Conrad's general manager.

The hotel's valet staff will keep fewer cars parked in front of the hotel and will no longer park cars at an angle, opting instead for parallel parking to keep an opening for trail users, Tinsley said.
They're clearly not doing that. I've been past there several times in the last week and they're parking perpendicularly as they always have. If anything, the "compromise" with the trail construction has just given them more space for parking cars than they had before.

"Where else in the city is a business allowed to park cars on a sidewalk? he asked."

One block South on Illinois in front of the Canterbury
Excellent quotes from Curt and his point is still valid about parking on sidewalks, but here are a couple more places people are "allowed" to park on sidewalks:

On the North St. sidewalk at the Capitol Ave. Deering Cleaners (it's even shown on Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=indianapolis&hl=en&ll=39.775812,-86.161855&spn=0.000793,0.001206&t=h&z=20&vpsrc=6))
On the 21st St. sidewalk at Sidestreet Deli (again, on Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=indianapolis&hl=en&ll=39.794837,-86.159478&spn=0.000792,0.001206&t=h&z=20&vpsrc=6))

Survey (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/W8B3SQJ)

Don't forget to vote for the "new" name of Georgia St. May I make a suggestion of...Georgia St.

Parking in front of the Canterbury is stupid too.

As I told Cory, why do we bend over backwards to give cars, even PARKING for cars, such high priority? It blows me away....

The only thing that I can figure is that for the time being, since the rest of the trail is not open, that they can park how they wish. Apparently, the bollards that John has talked about have not shown up yet, but they will be for making cyclists slow down instead of what they SHOULD be doing which is preventing cars from parking further up onto the trail... but I digress. Ive already said my piece now.

Thanks cory!

They're clearly not doing that. I've been past there several times in the last week and they're parking perpendicularly as they always have. If anything, the "compromise" with the trail construction has just given them more space for parking cars than they had before.

They're all parallel right now, and most of the time. Valet's will do whatever is most convenient for them, rules be damned tho. I've noticed that they're breaking the rules mostly at night and on weekends.

The nicest thing I can think to say about the situation is that it's better than before. This only sucks. Before it sucked hard.

They're all parallel right now, and most of the time. Valet's will do whatever is most convenient for them, rules be damned tho. I've noticed that they're breaking the rules mostly at night and on weekends.

The nicest thing I can think to say about the situation is that it's better than before. This only sucks. Before it sucked hard.
That might explain why I only see perpendicular. I'm hardly ever in downtown during a weekday.

The cars were parked perpendicular one day this past weekend.

re: cars pulling through the valet area in front of the Canterbury Hotel:

Yes -- cars park on Illinois Street in front of the Conrad, but that corridor does not have the Cultural Trail on it and does not have 30 feet or so between the roadway and the front of the building - like Washington Street has.

The Conrad could have set up a valet area for six or seven cars to unload or load people - and then immediately the cars should leave that area, making room for new cars to arrive. By only having a valet area for seven or so cars, there easily could be enough room for people to walk by to the north of the valet area -- and for bicyclists to ride by along the street in a designated corridor just south of the area where the valet vehicles park.

The problem is that the Conrad seems to let these vehicles sit there for an hour or longer. What are the valet workers for? They should immediately move the cars to the adjacent parking garage - and then get them again when the people need to leave in their cars.

I often see a dozen or so cars sitting on the "parking lot" in front of the Conrad. People are not getting in or out of them. They are just sitting there. By allowing the Conrad to have space for 15 or so cars - they will just keep using all of the room - and will ruin the streetscape in front of their hotel. Washington Street will be a very nice corridor - all the way from beyone West Street to the east side of downtown -- except for this 100 foot long stretch in front of the Conrad. The Conrad should be ashamed. I wonder if they have any idea what type of bad community public relations this could cause.

What should the response be by the biking community once the signs are put up telling bikers to get off of their bikes and walk them past the Conrad? I can think of a few things that could be said - and/or done.

I had this comment on IBJ for about 20 minutes. They took it down.. I suppose I'm too controversial for them.

"Who would want their overpriced luxury car parked blocking a world class bike trail? Who would want vehicles parked al the way to up to their front door? Who thinks this is attractive and a good idea? Classless rednecks like the folks at the Conrad, that's who. Wonderful advertisement for your fancy schmancy sooper dooper luxoorius Hotel Cletus..."

Check this out... page 20 (http://www.activelivingresources.org/assets/chicagosbikelanedesignguide.pdf) of the Chicago Bike Lane Design Guide. Maybe it's a skewed version of the Chicago standard?

It's skewed, that's for sure.

Again...I don't know how you'd do otherwise downtown where there are "right turn only" lanes in blocks with partial street parking (something for which most of us advocate where there aren't tree lawns as ped buffers).

[Converting all the one-ways to two-ways isn't one of your choicies.] :)

In most locations on one-ways, drivers have to TURN across the lane rather than shifting across it, which I believe to be more dangerous for cyclists. If a driver is merely shifting across the bike lane, s/he's concerned only with bike and car traffic moving the same direction. If the driver is turning right, his/her attention is on a light, on crossing car traffic, on ped crossing. I actually think the Indy design might be safer for cyclists once people adjust.

Compare NY and Penn (in the picture) or Michigan and College with any intersection on NY or Michigan east of Oriental to see what I mean. Highlighting the point of conflict and moving it back from the intersection probably promotes cyclist safety.

Do we know how many car-bike accidents there have been since the bike lanes were installed on Michigan and New York, and where they were? Having that data, along with some estimate of "bikes per day" through each area, would settle the argument.

Chris, I'm not sure you're understanding my point. I'm not suggesting that right turning cars should cross the bike lane at the intersection when they make their turn. I'm suggesting that there should be a right turn lane or a shared bike lane/right turn lane where space doesn't permit, or perhaps traffic volume doesn't warrant a full right turn lane.

The difference is that (and again, I must refer back to the photo), the right turn lane should begin on the right side of the bike lane, not begin on the left side of the turn lane and then ram through the bike lane. It may seem like a subtle distinction, but when you think about it for what it really is, it's a design that takes two existing lanes (vehicle and bike) and criss-crosses them, which seems like a really bad idea. To say it another way (thinking back to the photo), the lane that is to the left of the bike lane in the foreground should continue on as a through (straight) lane following whatever contour the bike lane must take.

Very excited about Libertine!

I heard the old HUE space is already planned for conversion into a higher end "pizza" place

The old Sage location will be called Marteenies, with the name playing on the fact that the space is very small.

Thanks for the info! :)

Chris, I'm not sure you're understanding my point. I'm not suggesting that right turning cars should cross the bike lane at the intersection when they make their turn. I'm suggesting that there should be a right turn lane or a shared bike lane/right turn lane where space doesn't permit, or perhaps traffic volume doesn't warrant a full right turn lane.

The difference is that (and again, I must refer back to the photo), the right turn lane should begin on the right side of the bike lane, not begin on the left side of the turn lane and then ram through the bike lane. It may seem like a subtle distinction, but when you think about it for what it really is, it's a design that takes two existing lanes (vehicle and bike) and criss-crosses them, which seems like a really bad idea. To say it another way (thinking back to the photo), the lane that is to the left of the bike lane in the foreground should continue on as a through (straight) lane following whatever contour the bike lane must take.

But that lane starts at the river and "ends" as a turn lane onto southbound Penn. Are you suggesting it end sooner and then re-appear as a true/short turn lane that the driver has to consciously get into that is shared with bikes? Granted it hasn't been striped long and I'm only through that intersection twice a week, but I haven't seen any conflicts between car and bike. However, I have seen several people ignoring the right turn only signs and going straight and causing car/car conflicts.

But that lane starts at the river and "ends" as a turn lane onto southbound Penn. Are you suggesting it end sooner and then re-appear as a true/short turn lane that the driver has to consciously get into that is shared with bikes? Granted it hasn't been striped long and I'm only through that intersection twice a week, but I haven't seen any conflicts between car and bike. However, I have seen several people ignoring the right turn only signs and going straight and causing car/car conflicts.

Thanks for your comments Ben. Yes. I'm suggesting that the turn lane should be a true turn lane that begins south of the bike lane that drivers must consciously make a lane change to enter. I think your point about car vs car conflicts is huge, because if a car has to swerve to avoid another car (because the lane markings are confusing), there's the possibility the car is going to swerve into a bike to avoid another car.

To investigate your comment about that lane starting at the river, I just checked GoogleMaps, and I don't think that is really the case since there are actually only two through lanes on New York between Capitol and Illinois, which then increases to four lanes a block later.

Chris, I'm not sure you're understanding my point. I'm not suggesting that right turning cars should cross the bike lane at the intersection when they make their turn. I'm suggesting that there should be a right turn lane or a shared bike lane/right turn lane where space doesn't permit, or perhaps traffic volume doesn't warrant a full right turn lane.

The difference is that (and again, I must refer back to the photo), the right turn lane should begin on the right side of the bike lane, not begin on the left side of the turn lane and then ram through the bike lane. It may seem like a subtle distinction, but when you think about it for what it really is, it's a design that takes two existing lanes (vehicle and bike) and criss-crosses them, which seems like a really bad idea. To say it another way (thinking back to the photo), the lane that is to the left of the bike lane in the foreground should continue on as a through (straight) lane following whatever contour the bike lane must take.

I agree that the right-hand lane should probably go through (for the reason Ben points out above), with a new "right turn only" lane appearing after the parking ends. But there's a practical problem with street alignment through there...and the left lane needs to go away a block further east, at Delaware.

Nonetheless, at this place, right-turning cars and through bikes will always cross each other mid-block. The only issue is, what's the safest way. Painting the conflict zone green with the dashed lines seems like an okay way to do it.

To investigate your comment about that lane starting at the river, I just checked GoogleMaps, and I don't think that is really the case since there are actually only two through lanes on New York between Capitol and Illinois, which then increases to four lanes a block later.

I'm not sure the May 2010 Google Map aerial is valid since the repaving. DPW may have realigned things in this block as they did between Penn and Delaware. (There used to be two left turn lanes, one for NB Delaware and one for NE Mass Ave.; the Mass Ave lane ended into the construction closing that was at 3Mass where Bazbeaux' outdoor dining is now. That lane was gone for several years but is now reopened as a through lane.)

Note that the reverse angle parking has been on the north side of the Bayh Building for some time...it's not new since the repaving. It was done when the bike lanes were put in, or before.

To investigate your comment about that lane starting at the river, I just checked GoogleMaps, and I don't think that is really the case since there are actually only two through lanes on New York between Capitol and Illinois, which then increases to four lanes a block later.

I'll pay more attention to the new lane markings on Monday, but I know I get in that lane from the middle of the IUPUI campus and then turn on Penn.

I'm not saying that I'm opposed to changing them and making a proper turn lane, it's just that from what I've seen, there isn't really a problem. I've seen motorist honking at bikers in the shared turn lane at Senate, but no car/bike conflicts at Penn.

Survey (http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/W8B3SQJ)

Don't forget to vote for the "new" name of Georgia St. May I make a suggestion of...Georgia St.


I completely agree Ben. This is Georgia Street and should always be. What are we saying if we constantly change our history at the whim of a one time event? The redesign will make Georgia Street, renaming the street will not improve the design. In years to come, people will certainly be able to speak of Georgia Street as a destination with ease. Leave it as is. Vote for Georgia Street. During events it can get ceremonial name plates like when the Big Ten games come through, but leave it as Georgia!

[QUOTE=GarfieldPark

What should the response be by the biking community once the signs are put up telling bikers to get off of their bikes and walk them past the Conrad? I can think of a few things that could be said - and/or done.[/QUOTE]


I for one will continue as is. i will remain on the bike through this area. I won't intentionally hit anything nor will I speed through to risk hitting someone, but I will not get off the bike to walk it by the over privaliged auto users. This trail was meant for pedestrians, why screw it up for 300'? I sent Karen Haley an email to this effect in hopes that she understands a true frustration is mounting. I suggest all do the same.

^^ YEP ^^

Speaking of Georgia, man that gas leak today is crazy! I can smell it 2 blocks away and hear it 3 blocks away. The Harness factory and all adjacent buildings are evacuated, and traffic is blocked for 2 blocks in every direction..

I can't believe that the construction crews ruptured that line! Someone really screwed up here...

Story from IBJ's Property Lines about the "Tilted Kilt" moving into the first floor space currently occupied by Jillians on S. Meridian downtown.

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2011/09/09/tilted-kilt-taking-over-jillians-restaurant-space/PARAMS/post/29460

I'm not sure the May 2010 Google Map aerial is valid since the repaving. DPW may have realigned things in this block as they did between Penn and Delaware. (There used to be two left turn lanes, one for NB Delaware and one for NE Mass Ave.; the Mass Ave lane ended into the construction closing that was at 3Mass where Bazbeaux' outdoor dining is now. That lane was gone for several years but is now reopened as a through lane.)

Note that the reverse angle parking has been on the north side of the Bayh Building for some time...it's not new since the repaving. It was done when the bike lanes were put in, or before.

I did check it out yesterday, and there are now three lanes prior to Meridian. Maybe I'll sketch this out at some point and try to better illustrate what I believe would be a better alternative.

The angle parking was there at the federal building quite some time before the bike lane was ever added. I don't understand what took so long to get that angle parking implemented across from the Athenaeum since that was included in the bike lane plans that were created 4 or 5 years ago.

I did check it out yesterday, and there are now three lanes prior to Meridian. Maybe I'll sketch this out at some point and try to better illustrate what I believe would be a better alternative.

The angle parking was there at the federal building quite some time before the bike lane was ever added. I don't understand what took so long to get that angle parking implemented across from the Athenaeum since that was included in the bike lane plans that were created 4 or 5 years ago.

That block is still awful. A one block gap in the bike lane at the point at exactly the point where traffic becomes congested. It is not much fun to jockey for position at that intersection.

Does anyone know the status of the Bank One redevelopment now that the parking privitization has been finalized?
http://www.ibj.com/glick-partners-on-30m-downtown-apartment-development/PARAMS/article/25278

Does anyone know the status of the Bank One redevelopment now that the parking privitization has been finalized?
http://www.ibj.com/glick-partners-on-30m-downtown-apartment-development/PARAMS/article/25278

I believe the lawsuit between the Kosenes and Miller is still holding things up. I hope I'm wrong, that site needs to be developed yesterday.

http://www.ibj.com/kosenes-take-on-expartner-in-court/PARAMS/article/27535

I believe the lawsuit between the Kosenes and Miller is still holding things up. I hope I'm wrong, that site needs to be developed yesterday.

http://www.ibj.com/kosenes-take-on-expartner-in-court/PARAMS/article/27535

Wow.. I just noticed something perhaps some of us can take advantage of...

The (free) Skyscrapercity app for iphone and ipad allows you to view IBJ subscriber only content at no cost.. It's weird, I only had to click on that link in the app, and the story opened up for me just fine. Can't read it any other way.

Edit - Meh.. maybe just an ibj.com glitch. Sometimes I click on the link and I can read it, and sometimes it says "Premium Content, Subscribers only."

^^^ I like the new SSC iPhone app!

Hey All: Am I allowed to promote my own interests here? if not, please mod this away, Moderators. This Wednesday Whole Foods in Naptown is donating 5% of daily sales to People for Urban Progress, the urban design non-profit in Fountain Square responsible for saving acres of RCA Dome fabric and reusing it in neighborhood projects. if you usually shop at Whole Foods, please wait until Wednesday to do your shopping there and help out PUP!

I was in the restroom at Whole Foods the other day and noticed that.

Chris, I'm not sure you're understanding my point. I'm not suggesting that right turning cars should cross the bike lane at the intersection when they make their turn. I'm suggesting that there should be a right turn lane or a shared bike lane/right turn lane where space doesn't permit, or perhaps traffic volume doesn't warrant a full right turn lane.

The difference is that (and again, I must refer back to the photo), the right turn lane should begin on the right side of the bike lane, not begin on the left side of the turn lane and then ram through the bike lane. It may seem like a subtle distinction, but when you think about it for what it really is, it's a design that takes two existing lanes (vehicle and bike) and criss-crosses them, which seems like a really bad idea. To say it another way (thinking back to the photo), the lane that is to the left of the bike lane in the foreground should continue on as a through (straight) lane following whatever contour the bike lane must take.

Good point Idyllic!

I'm copying the following list from a story that Indianapolis Downtown Inc. put out. It lists new restaurants and retail businesses that either just opened downtown or are planning to open soon. I think most of these we know about -- but there were a few surpsrises to me ........

• Crimson Tate (retail) 845 Massachusetts Ave. Opened Aug. 1
• Chatham Home (retail) 517 E. Walnut St. Opened Aug. 5
• California Pizza Kitchen Circle Centre Opened Aug. 9
• The Libertine 38 E. Washington St. Opened Sept. 6
• Papa Roux, Cajun City Market September
• Bikes on Mass Ave (retail) 643 Massachusetts Ave. September
• Indianapolis Colts Grille 110 W. Washington St. September
• Mass Mex 334 Massachusetts Ave. September
• Mauricio Pizza 222 E. Market St. September
• Naked Tchopsticks 7 N. Meridian St. October
• Petite Chou 30 S. Meridian St. November
• Tilted Kilt 141 S. Meridian St. December
• Hoosier Park's Winner Circle 20 N. Pennsylvania Ave. by year end
• El Rodeo 250 S. Meridian St. by year end
• JoS. A. Banks (retail) 30 S. Meridian St. by year end


I was glad to see Mass Mex on the list. I thought it had died -- but apparently they just took the sign down. It looked like it was being worked on when I went by last weekend.

Adding in some of the new places in Fountain Square - we can add La Margarita and the Pioneer.

I didn't know Jos. A. Banks was opening at 30 S. Meridian. I had heard, however, that Raleigh's men's store was supposed to be opening on E. Washington Street - just east of Meridian. Didn't see that one in the list though.

Another place that may be coming into downtown soon is a place called the Tin Roof - which is a live music restaurant / bar - that, according to the construction permit signs in the window, may be coming to the Century Building, just SW of Scotty's.

....I didn't know Jos. A. Banks was opening at 30 S. Meridian. I had heard, however, that Raleigh's men's store was supposed to be opening on E. Washington Street - just east of Meridian. Didn't see that one in the list though. ....
It was always Jos. A. Banks, which some people or reports confused as Raleigh's, I think.

The way I remember it was that the Raleigh's was supposed to go into the 2 story building currently being restored between the Jimmy John's restaurant and the McOuat building - on E. Washington Street. This Jos. A Banks store is supposed to go in at 30 S. Meridian - near the Oceannaire restaurant. (I'm not really sure what the current, accurate story is -- just saying what I remember.)

The way I remember it was that the Raleigh's was supposed to go into the 2 story building currently being restored between the Jimmy John's restaurant and the McOuat building - on E. Washington Street. This Jos. A Banks store is supposed to go in at 30 S. Meridian - near the Oceannaire restaurant. (I'm not really sure what the current, accurate story is -- just saying what I remember.)
Petit Chou at 30 S. Meridian. The IDI email repeated 30 S. Meridian address twice, in error.

I'm copying the following list from a story that Indianapolis Downtown Inc. put out. It lists new restaurants and retail businesses that either just opened downtown or are planning to open soon. I think most of these we know about -- but there were a few surprises to me .........

Virginia Kay's Doughnuts opened this morning at 2402 N. Meridian.

Mmm, doughnuts. (Apologies to Homer Simpson.)

They also serve panini sandwiches for lunch. The one I had today was excellent.

i'm not sure if anyone here reads indianabeer.com, but the second 9/12 entry lists a few brewery moves/expansions that are occuring in different indiana cities. i guess this brought me straight to urbanophile's august blog entry "beer and evolving culture". check out both if interested. great to see local breweries doing well, especially when adding to the street culture of some of our cities!

also, drove by trailside the other day and steel is still only about a floor out of the ground. is it just me, or does this project seem to be moving at a snail's pace?

Has anybody noticed that many of the "new" panels of the sound barrier wall they are installing on the east side on I465 are damaged and have large chunks broken out of them. The panels themselves look second rate compared to the sound barriers just to the north and south of there but with the damage they look really bad. Do they plan on replacing these damaged sections once they have finished placing all the sections or just leaving it as an eyesore. It really boggles my mind why they are half arsing it here when they are installing much higher grade barriers on the west side and the sections just to the north and south are much high quality.

I truly hate those walls. It seems to be the last step in isolating and seperating the communities on either side. It sickens me to ride on our interstates and see the communities with dead end streets and run down properties because of these monstrosities. It was one of the grosest redistribution of wealth campaigns ever. Existing neighborhoods were torn out and the homes that remained now face an elevated interstate as their neighbor. The value once present here has been transplanted to the suburbs at tax payer expense............Support Monroe County in their effort to hault the devestating I-69 boondoggle!

Support Monroe County in their effort to hault the devestating I-69 boondoggle!

I too have reservations about I-69 but it will not change much in Bloomington when built. SR 37 is already a four lane divided highway with grade separated interchanges at all major intersections and does not pass near the city center.

Drove past the 9/11 monument downtown after class tonight. The plaza was packed with people. Was nice, yet bittersweet, to see. This has turned out to be a classy, if different, type of Indianapolis monument.

to jjgn: Yes -- thanks for straightening things out about the Jos. A Banks store going in on E. Washington (not Raleigh's). Petit Chou is what is going in at 30 S. Meridian. That sounds correct and should be good to see. Now we just need to figure out what is going to go in in the former Borders location and on Circle Centre's south end.

Virginia Kay's Doughnuts opened this morning at 2402 N. Meridian.

Mmm, doughnuts. (Apologies to Homer Simpson.)

They also serve panini sandwiches for lunch. The one I had today was excellent.
Stopped in at 8am this morn and was treated to free doughnuts due to their credit card system not functioning. Mmmmm, FREE doughnuts!

I truly hate those walls. It seems to be the last step in isolating and seperating the communities on either side. It sickens me to ride on our interstates and see the communities with dead end streets and run down properties because of these monstrosities. It was one of the grosest redistribution of wealth campaigns ever. Existing neighborhoods were torn out and the homes that remained now face an elevated interstate as their neighbor. The value once present here has been transplanted to the suburbs at tax payer expense............Support Monroe County in their effort to hault the devestating I-69 boondoggle!

I don't think that's what they had in mind when they were designing the system in the 1950's. At the time... many great minds were thinking 'tear down the old and build new.' For instance, the Marion County Courthouse.

I truly hate those walls. It seems to be the last step in isolating and seperating the communities on either side. It sickens me to ride on our interstates and see the communities with dead end streets and run down properties because of these monstrosities. It was one of the grosest redistribution of wealth campaigns ever. Existing neighborhoods were torn out and the homes that remained now face an elevated interstate as their neighbor. The value once present here has been transplanted to the suburbs at tax payer expense............Support Monroe County in their effort to hault the devestating I-69 boondoggle!

OK, help me out here... Yes, highways destroy neighborhoods. I live on Market street downtown, and own property on both sides of the highway. I'm utterly familiar with the devastation putting it there did to the Near Eastside.

But, aren't those walls a good thing? Less noise and more privacy for the homeowners adjacent to them? I'd love to block those cars racing down the highway out... A combination of a noise cancelling wall and trees and foiliage seems ideal.

Well. ideally I'd prefer the highway had never been built... but that ship's already sailed.

I realize that in a very bad scenario, these walls reduce the noise, but in a string of dividing neighborhoods, erecting walls that prevent any visual connection completely isolates these areas. Where dead end streets at least were visible will now be dark and secluded. I was mostly on a rant after riding along the interstate recently and looking at the blight in the adjacent neighborhoods.

Hoosier,

I think I-69 will have more of a negative impact thna you may believe. Small stores that relied on traffic through or near Bloomington will be cut out by larger chain stores locating at interchanges. Businesses that may have considered locating close to Bloomington will be paid by IEDC to locate along I-69 to try and prove it was worth it. Plus this will be Billions not spent on existing issues.

I hear your frustration, and buddy, you better believe I share it. But I gotta think that restricting vision in many of the areas you're referring to would be a positive.

No one wants to live where thousands or tens of thousands have a birds eye view of their backyard daily. An aural and visual block of the highway may help many of these neighborhoods. A lot of people don't like having neighbors all around (not me) and I personally can see buying a house and a few adjacent vacant lots next to 465 and maybe doing some urban farming. But only if the highway doesn't make it an uncomfortable place to live.

I realize that in a very bad scenario, these walls reduce the noise, but in a string of dividing neighborhoods, erecting walls that prevent any visual connection completely isolates these areas. Where dead end streets at least were visible will now be dark and secluded. I was mostly on a rant after riding along the interstate recently and looking at the blight in the adjacent neighborhoods.

Hoosier,

I think I-69 will have more of a negative impact thna you may believe. Small stores that relied on traffic through or near Bloomington will be cut out by larger chain stores locating at interchanges. Businesses that may have considered locating close to Bloomington will be paid by IEDC to locate along I-69 to try and prove it was worth it. Plus this will be Billions not spent on existing issues.

I realize that in a very bad scenario, these walls reduce the noise, but in a string of dividing neighborhoods, erecting walls that prevent any visual connection completely isolates these areas. Where dead end streets at least were visible will now be dark and secluded. I was mostly on a rant after riding along the interstate recently and looking at the blight in the adjacent neighborhoods.

Hoosier,

I think I-69 will have more of a negative impact thna you may believe. Small stores that relied on traffic through or near Bloomington will be cut out by larger chain stores locating at interchanges. Businesses that may have considered locating close to Bloomington will be paid by IEDC to locate along I-69 to try and prove it was worth it. Plus this will be Billions not spent on existing issues.

But I think what Hoosier is saying is that Bloomington already has that. The four-lane, interchange-controlled SR 37 just west of Bloomington will be retagged Interstate 69 without much modification. The 3rd Street and 2nd Street interchanges on 37 already have Walmart/Sam's Club/fast food/strip malls, and it's hard to imagine that the interstate will dramatically change what already exists. Also, despite some unfortunate sprawl on Bloomington's west side, Bloomington has the most vibrant city center of any comparably sized town in Indiana. Obviously, IU isn't going anywhere, and as long as IU is there, Bloomington proper is going to me much more immune to interstate-related malaise than, say, Anderson was.

But I think what Hoosier is saying is that Bloomington already has that. The four-lane, interchange-controlled SR 37 just west of Bloomington will be retagged Interstate 69 without much modification. The 3rd Street and 2nd Street interchanges on 37 already have Walmart/Sam's Club/fast food/strip malls, and it's hard to imagine that the interstate will dramatically change what already exists. Also, despite some unfortunate sprawl on IU's west side, Bloomington has the most vibrant city center of any comparably sized town in Indiana. Obviously, IU isn't going anywhere, and as long as IU is there, Bloomington proper is going to me much more immune to interstate-related malaise than, say, Anderson was.

Agreed! That's why I don't get the Bloomington/Monroe County MPO's objection: I-69 is already there. All of the sprawl effects happened in the 70's, 80's, and 90's. Connecting the already-built interstate segment at both ends won't change any of it.

Or, as we Hoosiers say, the horse is already out of the barn.

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-city-goes-through-3000-submissions-to-rename-section-of-downtown-street-20110913,0,2019005.column


City goes through 3,000 submissions to rename downtown street
A section on Georgia Street might get a new name ahead of Super Bowl


The City of Indianapolis and Indianapolis Downtown, Inc. is taking public input into consideration for a possible new name for a three block stretch of Georgia Street.

The stretch between the Indiana Convention Center and Conseco Fieldhouse is already under construction to become a pedestrian-friendly walkway. That’s part of a $12,000,000 makeover project ahead of the 2012 Super Bowl.

"It's going to have a beautiful center lane boardwalk, as well as a very dramatic lighting system," explained Julia Watson, Vice President, Marketing and Communications at Downtown Inc. "It's really going to be unlike any other street that we have in Indianapolis."

Watson said the City received about 3,000 submissions including the following:


Whitcomb Street
General Timothy Maude (killed at Pentagon on 9/11)
Victory Street
Liberty Street
Peyton Place

The organization also received many submissions to keep it Georgia St. Opponents protesting the name change were so outraged, they even created a Facebook page asking city officials to consider the street’s historical significance.

Even the business owners on Georgia Street have differing opinions.

"I don't really know why they want to change it?," asked Gordon Coke, owner of The Pub on East Georgia. "A lot of people are gonna have to change their accounts, their mailing address and all that."

On the other hand, Old Spaghetti Factory manager Ryan Oates said the restaurant is welcoming the change.

"[The area is] going to change dramatically and for the people that do come in from out of town, it’d be nice to have a fresh new name to add to the fresh new feel that we’re adding to the street."

Indianapolis Downtown Inc. will pick the top four or five suggestions and the mayor will have the final say. The City has the option to not change the name.

Bourbon Street, 16th street, 5th avenue, michigan avenue......all streets that have huge impacts on their cities, yet managed to keep the name of the street. What is the point of any of this? How will it help to function better? Will I smile more if I can say I'm going to "Peyton's Place" (really dumb BTW) and buy more food or drink? For the love of God, quit screwing things up after showing such promise...cough cough, cultural trail, cough cough.........

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-city-goes-through-3000-submissions-to-rename-section-of-downtown-street-20110913,0,2019005.column


City goes through 3,000 submissions to rename downtown street
A section on Georgia Street might get a new name ahead of Super Bowl


The City of Indianapolis and Indianapolis Downtown, Inc. is taking public input into consideration for a possible new name for a three block stretch of Georgia Street.

The stretch between the Indiana Convention Center and Conseco Fieldhouse is already under construction to become a pedestrian-friendly walkway. That’s part of a $12,000,000 makeover project ahead of the 2012 Super Bowl.

"It's going to have a beautiful center lane boardwalk, as well as a very dramatic lighting system," explained Julia Watson, Vice President, Marketing and Communications at Downtown Inc. "It's really going to be unlike any other street that we have in Indianapolis."

Watson said the City received about 3,000 submissions including the following:


Whitcomb Street
General Timothy Maude (killed at Pentagon on 9/11)
Victory Street
Liberty Street
Peyton Place

The organization also received many submissions to keep it Georgia St. Opponents protesting the name change were so outraged, they even created a Facebook page asking city officials to consider the street’s historical significance.

Even the business owners on Georgia Street have differing opinions.

"I don't really know why they want to change it?," asked Gordon Coke, owner of The Pub on East Georgia. "A lot of people are gonna have to change their accounts, their mailing address and all that."

On the other hand, Old Spaghetti Factory manager Ryan Oates said the restaurant is welcoming the change.

"[The area is] going to change dramatically and for the people that do come in from out of town, it’d be nice to have a fresh new name to add to the fresh new feel that we’re adding to the street."

Indianapolis Downtown Inc. will pick the top four or five suggestions and the mayor will have the final say. The City has the option to not change the name.

Seriously? Peyton Place? Victory Street? Maybe this is just an elaborate PR Campaign... Surely Georgia St. will win the popular vote, the only question is whether or not the Mayor will respect the vote... On second thought, if the popular vote is Peyton Place, I would hope he wouldn't respect the vote.

Anyone's thoughts on Pan Am Plaza being closed?

perhaps a great opportunity to reinvent the space.........maybe?

Seriously? Peyton Place? Victory Street? Maybe this is just an elaborate PR Campaign... Surely Georgia St. will win the popular vote, the only question is whether or not the Mayor will respect the vote... On second thought, if the popular vote is Peyton Place, I would hope he wouldn't respect the vote.


So the mayor (government) should only represent the majority when it agrees with your interest? I hate the idea of a name change also but if thousands of people decide to change it and the Mayor who has the power to change it decides that it is the best course of action, then unfortunately so be it. I thought that was the definition of majority rule and democracy?

Anyone's thoughts on Pan Am Plaza being closed?

Hooray!

I have a professional interest in the space and I know the owners personally. The closing is all political though. It's been well known for a very long time that there were major issues. This is the City forcing the owners to cough up some cash to improve it before the Superbowl.

perhaps a great opportunity to reinvent the space.........maybe?

Not gonna happen anytime soon. The owners are holding the City hostage until someone gives them a good price for the property. Looks like their bluff has been called.

Yes, it's for sale...

Its a shame it HASNT been fixed up. If I owned the space, for sale or not, I would find a way to get it fixed up before the super bowl. Would be real classy to be the clown who didnt try to spruce up your space a few blocks from where the super bowl was being played...

Hooray!

I have a professional interest in the space and I know the owners personally. The closing is all political though. It's been well known for a very long time that there were major issues. This is the City forcing the owners to cough up some cash to improve it before the Superbowl.

I noticed when I was up in Indy in mid August at the DCI World Championships, a group of us walked over the top of the plaza. Not only was the surface brick work in trouble there was something I never saw in the past. I noticed that the structural suppport beam work holding up the plaza was pushing up on parts of the plaza under the brick in some cases up to an inch. I realized then that something is happening to the superstructure.

Its a shame it HASNT been fixed up. If I owned the space, for sale or not, I would find a way to get it fixed up before the super bowl. Would be real classy to be the clown who didnt try to spruce up your space a few blocks from where the super bowl was being played...

The clown (his intials are A L) lives in New York City and doesn't give a flying fuck how he's perceived in Indy. Even though this gets national exposure, he'll just hide behind his holding companies.

Not gonna happen anytime soon. The owners are holding the City hostage until someone gives them a good price for the property. Looks like their bluff has been called.

Yes, it's for sale...

The problem is you've got multiple ownerships. One partnership owns the parking garage, someone else leases the garage from the owners, and who knows how many different ownership entities are involved in the Plaza, ice rinks, office building, and land underneath it all. Even if it's only one, you've still got three players in the game with differing interests.

The problem is you've got multiple ownerships. One partnership owns the parking garage, someone else leases the garage from the owners, and who knows how many different ownership entities are involved in the Plaza, ice rinks, office building, and land underneath it all. Even if it's only one, you've still got three players in the game with differing interests.

True, a common situation, and the main reason that Penn Centre hasn't gotten off the ground. (still barely alive believe it or not)

But A L is the sticky wicket here.. Since the convention center hotel deal was rejected he's been obstinate.. He won't do a thing with the garage unless forced.

I'm sure that the garage lessee is stuck with an unreasonably high Triple Net lease and hands are tied. A L being the lessor of course and won't renegotiate. I've been through that exact situation with A L in the past. Hate that guy.

I'd love to start seeing more conversions of older office buildings in the heart of downtown to residential use. There are already a decent number of residential developments in the core of downtown - but these two (in the story below) could add to the existing units. I'd love to see the old Continental Building (I believe that's its name) located just south of the M&I Bank building on Pennsylvania, turned into apartments as well. I believe it may be an asbestos issue that is stalling its conversion. Here's a story about two potential residential conversions from the 9-13-11 electronic issue of the IBJ:

Owner of East Market Street buildings eyes apartment conversion

The owner of a pair of century-old buildings on East Market Street is searching for a partner or buyer interested in converting them to apartments or a boutique hotel.

Crown Property Group is issuing a request for proposals for the buildings, one of which is at 136 E. Market and houses a Stockyards Bank branch. The other is at 129 E. Market. Built around 1904, it’s known as the J.F. Wild Building. Though Crown envisions the buildings being converted to apartments, it's open to other ideas.

“I’ve been thinking of doing something different with the buildings ever since we acquired them,” said Ammeen, who co-founded Crown in 2003 to buy downtown real estate. Its first purchase, in 2005, was the Barrister building at the southwest corner of Delaware and Market. Crown bought the Stockyards Bank building in 2006 and the Wild Building in 2008. The Barrister building isn’t for sale.

Last year, Crown bought from Huntington a 48-space parking lot immediately east of the Wild Building. It also bought from Huntington control of 56 spaces inside the Penn Park Garage, which is connected to the Wild Building.

The parking is expected to make the buildings more attractive to apartment developers, as is their location just a block from Monument Circle. The buildings, both of which are about 55,000 square feet and 12 stories tall, are sparsely occupied and most of the leases are set to expire soon. The exception is the Stockyards Bank branch, which is expected to remain on the first floor of the 136 E. Market building.

“We want the market to tell us what the market thinks is the highest and best use of the buildings,” said Ammeen, who thinks apartments are the most logical use for the buildings. The economy points toward people leasing rather than buying their homes, he said, and the price of gasoline makes it more attractive to live in a walkable downtown.

Scott Pollom, a broker with Cassidy Turley who specializes in apartments, said any property within walking distance of the Wholesale District or Monument Circle is a candidate for an apartment conversion. He said he’s working with investors now who want to create high-end apartments downtown. Secured parking, preferably in a garage, is key to that strategy, he said.

Full story can be found here:

http://www.ibj.com/owner-of-east-market-street-buildings-eyes-apartment-conversion/PARAMS/article/29494

Interesting that 129 East Market goes up for tax sale one week from today... Crown owes $50,000+ in back taxes. info below.

A521 1026475 CROWN WILD LLC 129 E MARKET ST, INDIANAPOLIS 80FT 10IN X 64.83FT NE PT L4 SQ57 & 1/2
VACTALBOTT ST E & ADJ
$52,709.58

I'd love to start seeing more conversions of older office buildings in the heart of downtown to residential use. There are already a decent number of residential developments in the core of downtown - but these two (in the story below) could add to the existing units. I'd love to see the old Continental Building (I believe that's its name) located just south of the M&I Bank building on Pennsylvania, turned into apartments as well. I believe it may be an asbestos issue that is stalling its conversion. Here's a story about two potential residential conversions from the 9-13-11 electronic issue of the IBJ:

Owner of East Market Street buildings eyes apartment conversion

The owner of a pair of century-old buildings on East Market Street is searching for a partner or buyer interested in converting them to apartments or a boutique hotel.

Crown Property Group is issuing a request for proposals for the buildings, one of which is at 136 E. Market and houses a Stockyards Bank branch. The other is at 129 E. Market. Built around 1904, it’s known as the J.F. Wild Building. Though Crown envisions the buildings being converted to apartments, it's open to other ideas.

“I’ve been thinking of doing something different with the buildings ever since we acquired them,” said Ammeen, who co-founded Crown in 2003 to buy downtown real estate. Its first purchase, in 2005, was the Barrister building at the southwest corner of Delaware and Market. Crown bought the Stockyards Bank building in 2006 and the Wild Building in 2008. The Barrister building isn’t for sale.

Last year, Crown bought from Huntington a 48-space parking lot immediately east of the Wild Building. It also bought from Huntington control of 56 spaces inside the Penn Park Garage, which is connected to the Wild Building.

The parking is expected to make the buildings more attractive to apartment developers, as is their location just a block from Monument Circle. The buildings, both of which are about 55,000 square feet and 12 stories tall, are sparsely occupied and most of the leases are set to expire soon. The exception is the Stockyards Bank branch, which is expected to remain on the first floor of the 136 E. Market building.

“We want the market to tell us what the market thinks is the highest and best use of the buildings,” said Ammeen, who thinks apartments are the most logical use for the buildings. The economy points toward people leasing rather than buying their homes, he said, and the price of gasoline makes it more attractive to live in a walkable downtown.

Scott Pollom, a broker with Cassidy Turley who specializes in apartments, said any property within walking distance of the Wholesale District or Monument Circle is a candidate for an apartment conversion. He said he’s working with investors now who want to create high-end apartments downtown. Secured parking, preferably in a garage, is key to that strategy, he said.

Full story can be found here:

http://www.ibj.com/owner-of-east-market-street-buildings-eyes-apartment-conversion/PARAMS/article/29494

Good to see progress starting on quite a few projects during the past week or two. The Hinge is underway now on the edge of Fletcher Place and Fountain Square. CityWay has started laying foundations. I saw workers starting the conversion to apartments of the old Central Restaurant Supply building up near 10th and Central. Something seems to be starting on the project next to Lugar Towers along Ft Wayne Avenue.

There is a construction fence up surrounding the old Wynona Hospital on Meridian/Illinois. Good sign that demolition isn't too far away.

I saw a fence up around the lot at 49th & College on the NW side of the intersection a couple of weeks ago. Its back down now (or was last time I looked).

Anyone know what happened? I was excited for a moment...

Is awesome and really sticking it to Armand. The city is sending him bills already... it seems that after 16 years, they're finally going to force his hand..

He'll point fingers at all around him of course, but everyone knows he's the root of the problem. He's the worst (or best) slumlord I've ever known.

His MO is to buy a property, sign a management company to a very high and sometimes misleading (in the way of maintenance costs) triple net lease, and when said management company fails to keep up with maintenance due to lack of income, he won't renegotiate and sues, prosecutes, etc. and switches management companies... and the cycle starts again.

Lord I hope they stick it to him this time.. Armand is a world class douchebag.

http://www.ibj.com/pan-am-plaza-damage-subject-of-court-battles/PARAMS/article/29551

Pan Am Plaza damage subject of court battles

The owner of Pan Am Plaza’s underground parking garage, which the city partially closed on Wednesday over safety concerns, alleged in 2009 that lack of maintenance on the plaza above it by Indiana Sports Corp. was damaging the garage.

New York-based real estate investor Dali Associates LP in 2009 filed a breach of contract suit against ISC in U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Indiana, alleging repairs to the garage from water leaks could cost more than $2 million to fix.

“During its ownership, ISC failed to take necessary steps to maintain the surface in good repair, thereby causing severe damage to the garage,” Dali alleged.

That suit was settled last March.

ISC officials Thursday deferred to their attorney, John C. Trimble of Lewis Wagner, who said settlement terms were confidential. He declined comment.

But records filed by ISC in response to the 2009 lawsuit appear to show that Dali ultimately was responsible for addressing leaks into the garage from the plaza above. ISC sold the plaza in 2008 to Indianapolis-based Kite Realty Corp.

In 1995, Dali and ISC amended an agreement governing the property after the discovery of water penetrating the plaza surface and into the ceiling of the parking garage below.

“To remedy this problem it is necessary that a new drain system and/or a protective layer of waterproof material … be installed,” stated the amendment.

“However, ISC is financially unable to install and maintain the (protective layer). Consequently, [Dali] is willing to do so” the amendment stated, as long as ISC owned the plaza and no additional structures were added to it.

The plaza, garage and surrounding 12-story office tower and ice-skating complex were built for the 1987 Pan American Games in Indianapolis.

On Wednesday, the city’s Department of Code Enforcement ordered the pedestrian plaza closed and a portion of the parking garage beneath it restricted from parking, citing concerns about the structural integrity of the garage that pose “an immediate risk to life, safety and property.”

The closed portion of the garage involves about 100 parking spaces, or about 10 percent of the garage’s capacity.

Code enforcement inspectors discovered damage to fasteners that hold horizontal ceiling beams against the wall of the garage.

A preliminary inspection appears to show the damage to be the result of years of water intrusion and the effects of temperature fluctuations, said Rick Powers, director of code enforcement for the city.

Asked why the entire garage wasn’t closed, Powers said the areas of concern were limited to specific areas. “The southeast exit is the worst area that we noticed.”

City officials said it likely will take weeks for an independent structural engineering firm to perform an evaluation of the underground parking structure.

“We hope to have someone under contract if not today then tomorrow,” Powers said Thursday morning.

Until a thorough inspection is completed, it’s unclear the scope or cost to the repairs that will be needed to bring the site into compliance.

The nearby office tower and skating rink that are part of the Pan Am Plaza complex remain open.

The now-closed brick-paved plaza had figured into the plans of the 2012 Super Bowl Host Committee, but spokeswoman Diana Boyce did not immediately know what uses were contemplated. “We were close to having [a plan] finalized,” before the city’s order was issued Wednesday, she said.

“Obviously the public-safety issue is the highest priority,” Boyce added.

Court records show garage owner Dali knew about water leakage as far back as 1995, when it amended its agreement with ISC to be “willing to” install and maintain a new water drain system and protective layer beneath the plaza. It’s not clear whether that work was carried out.

But, in 2008, Dali went after Central Parking System of Indiana, which formerly operated the garage under a lease, in a lawsuit filed in federal court.

Dali alleged that the tenant was responsible for maintaining the garage and that it, as garage owner, was having difficulty refinancing the garage because a lender’s inspection found maintenance issues.

To eventually secure refinancing, Dali said it spent $248,892 to address the maintenance issues.

Central, the parking operator, countered that Dali failed to maintain the “membrane” of the garage, alluding to waterproofing. Dali replied that the maintenance work at issue was not related to the membrane.

Central Parking refused to make repairs, alleging the problems were caused by damage from water leaking from the surface. Central Parking hired an expert, who wrote in a report that the plaza “is in need of extensive repair,” lacking adequate drainage—and that pavers, mortar and limestone of the above plaza were poorly maintained, according to court records.

That suit was settled in 2009, at which time Dali sued ISC.

Kite, the current owner of the plaza surface, has not been named as a defendant in Dali’s latest suit, at least not yet. Kite officials could not be reached for comment Thursday morning.

Dali in 2009 alleged that part of the $2 million in costs to address garage issues includes a “disadvantageous” settlement and lease amendment it had to enter into with Central Parking.

Armand Lasky, principal of New York-based Northeast Security Development Corp., a partner in Dali Associates, said he had yet to sort through the city’s action involving Pan Am Plaza.

“This [garage] is not structurally unsound,” he said.

Lasky deferred further questions to Indianapolis-based Denison Parking, which currently manages the Pan Am garage for Dali.

Denison officials were not immediately available for comment Thursday.

Hang him high! Even if this were or is totally the fault of the Lessee, as the owner, Armand is supposed to fix the problem, then potentially go after said management company for compensation.

Armand doesn't do that. He just waits for all to implode, then points fingers at everyone else tying the matter up in the courts for years. Meanwhile, the city suffers because of unusable and unsightly prime property... that Armand hangs onto knowing that someone will eventually give him top dollar for... He's holding us hostage... He's done it over and over for decades.

I'm just giddy seeing Armand be exposed like this! Google news shows 30 articles about this today.

Indystar article:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110916/LOCAL1805/109160337/Pam-Am-garage-complaints-date-back-16-years?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|s

Complaints about damage to Pan Am Plaza garage go back at least 16 years

Water damage plagued the garage under Pan Am Plaza long before the city stepped in this week to close down the pedestrian court.

The New York-based garage owner raised the issue as many as 16 years ago. More recently, it fired off finger-pointing lawsuits over the problem.

But the severity of the damage didn't come to light until this week, after Kite Realty Group, which owns the pedestrian plaza above the garage, told city officials about damage to concrete and support structures.

Indianapolis code enforcement officials deemed the 81,000-square-foot plaza unsafe Wednesday. They erected barricades and closed part of the 1,000-space parking structure beneath, where water has long seeped down the walls and rotted beams.

The closure has left five upcoming events -- four radio station-sponsored Indianapolis Colts pregame tailgates and the Oct. 1 Circle City Classic Fall Fest -- in the lurch.

Kate Johnson, the Department of Code Enforcement's spokeswoman, said the agency is working with Emmis Communications to find a new location for the first tailgate, before Sunday's Colts home opener. The pregame festivities are sponsored by Emmis station WFNI-AM (1070) and Bud Light.

New plans already have been set for the Classic's Fall Fest.

Vernon Williams, a board member for Classic organizer Indiana Black Expo, said the board met with Expo President and CEO Tanya Bell on Thursday evening. The decision: Keep Fall Fest, which draws about 30,000 people for various vendors and live performances, in the vicinity.

The fest will occupy Capitol Avenue as well as city property along the front of the Indiana Convention Center and the parking lot of St. John the Evangelist Catholic Church.

"We'll be able to make do," Williams said. "It's fortunate that that kind of access will be available so close."

But ultimately, if repair work takes months instead of weeks, the plaza's barricades could keep Super Bowl organizers from using the plaza for activities in February.

The 12-story plaza tower and skating facilities were not affected.

Lawsuits are filed

A dispute over who was responsible for damage to the garage led the owner, New York-based Dali Associates, to sue its longtime operator, Central Parking System, in 2008. Dali alleged Central let the garage fall into disrepair.

The following year, after Central filed a counterclaim against Dali, the garage owner sued Indiana Sports Corp., which previously owned the plaza and ice rinks.

Sports Corp. -- which sold its properties in 2008 to new owners, including Kite, that hoped to redevelop the site -- was accused of failing to prevent water from seeping into the garage over the years.

Both lawsuits, filed in U.S. District Court in Indianapolis, ended in confidential settlements, so it's unclear who took responsibility. The Sports Corp. case was resolved in February.

In 1995, an amendment to an agreement between the owners of the various parts of the plaza resulted in Dali agreeing to construct a new drain system or protective waterproof layer to prevent further leakage from above.

But court documents shine little light on whether the owner -- or anyone else -- made those fixes in the years since.

Rick Powers, director of the code enforcement agency, said he was unaware of the long-running damage dispute, as spelled out in court documents.

The city has started taking bids from engineers who will be hired to determine the scope of needed repairs. The city will send the bill to Dali, the garage owner.

"It's too early to say anything" about how long repairs will take, Powers said during a tour of the grounds and garage Thursday. "We want a full analysis of this facility."

The rare action by the code enforcement agency Wednesday night came after an engineer hired by Kite Realty Group performed a limited structural analysis in preparation for fall events.

The last time Code Enforcement took such an action was in 2006, Powers said. Officials at that time ordered the temporary closure of the Regions Bank skyscraper after straight-line winds blew out windows.

Powers said the southeast portion of the plaza, south of Georgia Street between Illinois Street and Capitol Avenue, was the most vulnerable.

Kite's engineering analysis showed that part, near a main staircase down to the garage, could withstand 50 pounds per square foot, half of what it should.

Down the stairs, about 100 spaces were blocked off on three levels beneath that area. The rest of the garage remains open.

Corrosion to metal beam fasteners and rust stains were apparent in many places, mostly on the garage's upper level. Water pooled underneath beams where calcified mineral deposits had formed from the drips.

Armand Lasky, a partner in Dali Associates, declined to comment Thursday beyond saying the garage is structurally sound.

He referred questions to Indianapolis-based Denison Parking, which took over as garage operator at the start of this year. But Jeffrey S. Line, Denison's senior vice president for administration, said the company was still preparing an "information release" that it will later issue.

Executives with Kite Realty did not return phone messages.

Indiana Sports Corp. spokesman John Dedman said no responsibility for repair costs to the garage has fallen on the organization as a result of its lawsuit with Dali.

Meanwhile, the pedestrian plaza that was completed in 1987 in preparation for the Pan American Games will sit empty.

That event was a key moment as Indianapolis leaders branded the city as an amateur sports capital.

More than two decades later, the city has hosted NCAA tournaments and is preparing to host the Super Bowl. Pan Am Plaza's sudden closure raises the possibility that the monument to the city's early aspirations could sit, barricaded, in the middle of an expected hub of activity during the week before the big game.

---------

There is a construction fence up surrounding the old Wynona Hospital on Meridian/Illinois. Good sign that demolition isn't too far away.

RIP
I liked working there.

Anyone else know of any major houses or factories that will meet Mayor Greg Ballards axe this year or next year?

Proposal for converting 1249 Alabama from a church to 28 apartments.

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/2380946/1919472801/name/13_Alabama_Church_Proposal_16SEP11.pdf

ZERO parking.... i like that

ZERO parking.... i like that

Parking is across the street on a separate parcel. See the site plan on page four.

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/2380946/1919472801/name/13_Alabama_Church_Proposal_16SEP11.pdf

Proposal for converting 1249 Alabama from a church to 28 apartments.

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/2380946/1919472801/name/13_Alabama_Church_Proposal_16SEP11.pdf
That's going to face an uphill battle. The Old Northside neighborhood association is quite powerful and not keen on parking lots or anything other than single family homes.

The developer is also counting on 6 on-street spaces on 13th -- that might technically be allowed on 13th but that's not a very wide street near Alabama and could cause problems.

Parking is across the street on a separate parcel. See the site plan on page four.

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/2380946/1919472801/name/13_Alabama_Church_Proposal_16SEP11.pdf

I saw that, I just meant that there was already parking there, this would not be asking for additional "greenfield" parking in the area. Not ideal obviously, but the number of spaces provided vs the number of proposed apartments is a very low ratio. I like seeing that.

That's going to face an uphill battle. The Old Northside neighborhood association is quite powerful and not keen on parking lots or anything other than single family homes.

The developer is also counting on 6 on-street spaces on 13th -- that might technically be allowed on 13th but that's not a very wide street near Alabama and could cause problems.

But man, you'd think they'd bend a little for this particular structure. It's been empty for quite a while. What else is going to happen with the old church?

They can put a high-end wall and screening around that tiny lot and it would look fine. Right now it's just crumbling, weedy asphalt. I'd rather see a nice maintained lot than a decaying one. 13th street parking is a different story. Not sure where there's room to park.

It will be interesting to see what their response is.

But man, you'd think they'd bend a little for this particular structure. It's been empty for quite a while. What else is going to happen with the old church?

They can put a high-end wall and screening around that tiny lot and it would look fine. Right now it's just crumbling, weedy asphalt. I'd rather see a nice maintained lot than a decaying one. 13th street parking is a different story. Not sure where there's room to park.

It will be interesting to see what their response is.

Build
Absolutlely
Nothing
A
Nywhere
Anytime

?

The Indianapolis Department of Metropolitan Development plans to choose a contractor Thursday after receiving nine bids today for the demolition of Winona Memorial Hospital.

Spokesman John Bartholomew said demolition must be complete within three months of that hiring. He hoped to know more about the specific timeline Thursday.

He said demolition itself could take several weeks. The building will not be imploded due to environmental concerns such as asbestos, medical waste and an underground fuel tank....

The Children's Museum, which is adjacent to the site, remains interested in the land.

(from Indy Star)

IBJ Article on a development @ 20th/21st and the Monon. 3 buildings 3 stories and 84 units (http://www.ibj.com/multifamily-housing-project-slated-for-monon-trail/PARAMS/article/29632)

But man, you'd think they'd bend a little for this particular structure. It's been empty for quite a while. What else is going to happen with the old church?

They can put a high-end wall and screening around that tiny lot and it would look fine. Right now it's just crumbling, weedy asphalt. I'd rather see a nice maintained lot than a decaying one. 13th street parking is a different story. Not sure where there's room to park.

It will be interesting to see what their response is.

Old Northside residences have mixed feelings on the project. Most everyone was excited to hear the church will be rehabbed. Those with reservations are concerned the apartments will be low income and that parking will overtake the streets. I believe those concerned with the low income housing are misinformed. One of the neighbors pointed out that the development is indeed private, not public housing. Rents will range from $642 for 1 bedroom and $770 for two bedrooms. This is in line with other apartment buildings in the neighborhood.

Some welcome the added density while others believe this is a negative. This has sparked one neighbor to resurrect the discussion of permit parking in the neighborhood. Permit parking was debated last year due to 16Park ( http://www.indyhousing.org/16.html ).

16 Park has parking though. Am I missing something?

All I can say is welcome to the city....

Build
Absolutlely
Nothing
A
Nywhere
Anytime

?

It's actually BANANA: Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone

There is a construction fence up surrounding the old Wynona Hospital on Meridian/Illinois. Good sign that demolition isn't too far away.

I is everyone excited about this building being demolished? I drove by it yesterday and thought it looked like it was in good condition. I hate to see one more vacant corner with no plan to redevelop.

But man, you'd think they'd bend a little for this particular structure. It's been empty for quite a while. What else is going to happen with the old church?

They can put a high-end wall and screening around that tiny lot and it would look fine. Right now it's just crumbling, weedy asphalt. I'd rather see a nice maintained lot than a decaying one. 13th street parking is a different story. Not sure where there's room to park.

It will be interesting to see what their response is.

I had high hopes for this project but have increasingly come to dislike the project's execution. I like the limestone and hardie panel elements, I hate the cheap plastic windows, lap-siding and concrete block elements. Overall, I think there is just too much going on; too many colors, materials etc. I thought modernism was in part about simple forms and honest materals... Apparently not in Indianapolis.

I seems like they should have at least respected the neighborhood's window guidelines (they don't allow white vinyl windows in the Old North Side do they?). I know the building is not technically in the Old North Side, I still think that would have been the respectful thing to do.

^^ Last I checked, 13th and Alabama is definitely within the boundaries of the Old North Side.

From the Historic Old NorthSide neighborhood website:

"The Old Northside's boundaries are 16th Street on the North; Pennsylvania Street on the West; Interstate I-65 on the South; and Bellefontaine Street on the East."

(Or maybe you were talking about the 16Park project - which would be just north of the Old NorthSide boundaries. Its just that the paragraph that you copied into your post was talking about the 13th and Alabama project. A little confusing.)

I had high hopes for this project but have increasingly come to dislike the project's execution. I like the limestone and hardie panel elements, I hate the cheap plastic windows, lap-siding and concrete block elements. Overall, I think there is just too much going on; too many colors, materials etc. I thought modernism was in part about simple forms and honest materals... Apparently not in Indianapolis.

I seems like they should have at least respected the neighborhood's window guidelines (they don't allow white vinyl windows in the Old North Side do they?). I know the building is not technically in the Old North Side, I still think that would have been the respectful thing to do.

I think we're talking about two different projects. :)

I was referring to the plan to convert the church on the southeast corner of 13th and Alabama into apartments.

Were you referring to 16 Park?

Old Northside residences have mixed feelings on the project. Most everyone was excited to hear the church will be rehabbed. Those with reservations are concerned the apartments will be low income and that parking will overtake the streets. I believe those concerned with the low income housing are misinformed. One of the neighbors pointed out that the development is indeed private, not public housing. Rents will range from $642 for 1 bedroom and $770 for two bedrooms. This is in line with other apartment buildings in the neighborhood.

Some welcome the added density while others believe this is a negative. This has sparked one neighbor to resurrect the discussion of permit parking in the neighborhood. Permit parking was debated last year due to 16Park ( http://www.indyhousing.org/16.html ).

Thanks for the info!

GEORGIA Street
As of 9/21/2011

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6178/6172446254_909fc88a6f_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6160/6172443116_2b262ce391_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6170/6172442078_65dbb45a7b_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6162/6171911819_ee8fbfcf8b_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6170/6171908173_96de7632b7_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6165/6171903045_21ac81d850_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6156/6172431662_16d54f3382_z.jpg

I is everyone excited about this building being demolished? I drove by it yesterday and thought it looked like it was in good condition. I hate to see one more vacant corner with no plan to redevelop.

It won't really seem that vacant, except on the Illinois St. side. On the Meridian side, the Glossbrenner Mansion (corner of 32nd and Meridian) is owned by Indiana Landmarks and it will remain standing. Also, the medical office tower and parking garage along 33rd will remain.

GEORGIA Street
As of 9/21/2011

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6156/6172431662_16d54f3382_z.jpg

This picture reminds me of a story I heard over the weekend.

It seems that a handicapped person on a mobility scooter got stuck on an ADA ramp somewhere around the American Legion Mall. The ramp included those "nubby" blocks for the visually impaired. Not sure if they were heaved, sunken, gapped, or just too tall for the scooter. But they were the issue.

Is this pavement design going to be "mobility-scooter-friendly" when done?

Yes Chris, we know you dont like them

Yes Chris, we know you dont like them

I don't like "fixing" one perceived problem (keeping cars out of the pedestrian zone on Georgia St.) and creating one or more additional real problems with the "fix".

It is amazing how much potential now rests with "GEORGIA STREET". This will have an incredible effect of drawing people in from different sides and angles. It would be great to see the uses along "GEORGIA STREET" converted to ground level retail and residences above with balconies would be amazing! Just spending some time dreaming while at work. Sorry.

It is amazing how much potential now rests with "GEORGIA STREET". This will have an incredible effect of drawing people in from different sides and angles. It would be great to see the uses along "GEORGIA STREET" converted to ground level retail and residences above with balconies would be amazing! Just spending some time dreaming while at work. Sorry.

I completely agree! While trying to avoid the construction headaches I used street view through Google and this area does have some amazing potential now. The north-south streets that intersect Georgia Street could really be something special for downtown and the city in general.

It is amazing how much potential now rests with "GEORGIA STREET". This will have an incredible effect of drawing people in from different sides and angles. It would be great to see the uses along "GEORGIA STREET" converted to ground level retail and residences above with balconies would be amazing! Just spending some time dreaming while at work. Sorry.

True. It's a shame that Ballard basically said that the GEORGIA Street is going away because "There's other things that are planned for it which is necessitating the name change." Unless the state or country of Georgia is suing Indianapolis for trademark infringement, I have no idea why it would be necessary and not just a bad option.

Hopefully this might help get the Penn Place Hotel project (I think that is what it was called) started up again. A 30 story or so "Le Meridian" hotel along with a 17 story Aloft or something along those lines. The southern end of the property they were interested in bumps up against Georgia Street. A re-do of the south end of Circle Centre would be good to see too. Instead of just a wall -- somehow it would be nice to do something that would allow better integration between that building and its stores and the street below.

The other thing I would really like to see is a re-do of the Pan Am Plaza block. A good sized, well designed hotel along Capitol - with a few restaurants or shops fronting a central plaza -- along with another mixed use project along Georgia Street with first and second floor retail and residential above -- in an 8 to 12 story building with residential balconies on both the north and south sides. That would be excellent. The retail / restaurants on the first floor would open to both the Georgia Street Pedestrian area as well as to a central Plaza overlooking a beautiful square framed by Union Station's headhouse, the Wholesale District to the east and the Crowne Plaza to the south and the other new hotel to the west. If they need to start over and rebuild the parking garage - they might as well do it right.

Interestingly -- in the early versions of the plans for Circle Centre -- there was supposed to be a 30 or so story office building on the NW corner of Georgia and Illinois -- where the parking garage and Mikado currently are located. That would have been quite an addition to this area. That probably is something that would have helped keep the area a lot busier - a good number of office workers. Right now there aren't a lot of major offices in the immediate vicinity - so not as many people regularly get down to this area. Maybe - with the Rolls Royce folks a few blocks away and with some future mixed use construction - that include offices - this area might see bigger crowds during the day. Hopefully convention business will continue to grow due to the recent expansion -- and conventioneers will increasingly keep this area filled. Of course - for the huge events like Big Ten Football Championships, the Super Bowl, Final Fours, National FFA Convention, etc --- the area will likely be packed.

BenIndy: "True. It's a shame that Ballard basically said that the GEORGIA Street is going away because "There's other things that are planned for it which is necessitating the name change." Unless the state or country of Georgia is suing Indianapolis for trademark infringement, I have no idea why it would be necessary and not just a bad option."

That's very interesting. I hadn't heard that comment. That sounds to me like something pretty big is coming together. What else could possibly "necessitate" a street name change? Maybe something big is happening with Simon and their mall properties (the garage and the south end of Circle Centre). Those two things take up about half of the space along this three block corridor. The mall - and the parking garage for that matter - could definitely use a major update. Maybe something very big is about to happen that requires some entirely different interpretation of the "street" below. I don't know. I'm just saying it sounds very curious to use the term "necessitating the name change". Hmmmmm......

That's very interesting. I hadn't heard that comment. That sounds to me like something pretty big is coming together. What else could possibly "necessitate" a street name change? Maybe something big is happening with Simon and their mall properties (the garage and the south end of Circle Centre). Those two things take up about half of the space along this three block corridor. The mall - and the parking garage for that matter - could definitely use a major update. Maybe something very big is about to happen that requires some entirely different interpretation of the "street" below. I don't know. I'm just saying it sounds very curious to use the term "necessitating the name change". Hmmmmm......

Jim Shella Story (http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/local/marion_county/mayor-stands-strong-on-georgia-renaming)

I hadn't heard it either. Apparently we'll find out the big news in a couple days. I just can't imagine they have something significantly more to announce other than all the existing work they are doing there. I hope it's awesome, but time will tell.

I'm a little afraid that it's going to end up something like the "MetLife Victory Promenade"

We need Melina Kennedy ASAP!

Jim Shella Story (http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/local/marion_county/mayor-stands-strong-on-georgia-renaming)

I hadn't heard it either. Apparently we'll find out the big news in a couple days. I just can't imagine they have something significantly more to announce other than all the existing work they are doing there. I hope it's awesome, but time will tell.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the big news that we don't know is the actual new name that Ballard, IDI, and whomever else is pulling the strings has actually decided upon. Hopefully, then we'll all understand why the name change is necessary.

This project is anything but a boondoggle. Stupid name changing controversy maybe, but not a value-negative project by any stretch

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the big news that we don't know is the actual new name that Ballard, IDI, and whomever else is pulling the strings has actually decided upon. Hopefully, then we'll all understand why the name change is necessary.

I wonder if this "necessary" name change, and big anouncement have anything to do with the recent pressure put on Pan Am Plaza? I imagine some big developement with the city condemning the property.. finally...

Wishful thinking I suppose.

Has anyone else noticed how few balconies are in the DT area, especially on apartments? I always thought it would be so cool to have the city market relocated to front the circle with large opening doors and windows and then have residences above with balconies overlooking our city's most recognizable figure.......

This project is anything but a boondoggle. Stupid name changing controversy maybe, but not a value-negative project by any stretch

The funding of IDI, in general, and specifically their work to change the street name is a boondoggle.

Regarding the project, I don't even know what a "value-negative" infrastructure project is, or how someone would measure that, but there was very little wrong with Georgia Street before albeit there is not a lot of activity there on a regular basis because there are few buildings that open up to Georgia Street. Will that change because of the project? We'll see. I'm sure it will have a few great parties a year, and yeah, presumably most of the project is being paid for with a federal grant, but we could've applied to use such a grant in an area of the County that actually needs revitalization, rather than one that does not. Eventually, City leadership needs to understand that the long-term financial viability is very dependent on the tax base of the 395 or so square miles of the County that aren't downtown. A great downtown that people can drive to in 15-20 minutes from the surrounding counties doesn't keep Indy neighborhoods from decaying. How about spending some money on some well-designed infrastructure improvements outside downtown? The Shelby Street bike track is a great example, but every one project like that, there are hands full of seemingless thoughtless resurfacings and reconstruction projects that are lost opportunities to improve the urban environment. Examples: West 38th Street (curbside sidewalks and huge curb radii with high speed traffic), Michigan Road bike/ped path (countless places where the "trail" shares excess pavement alongside the road or used for "private" parking in the public right-of-way that the City will not take the opportunity to remove), East Washington widening (45 MPH speed limit with curbside sidewalks), Brookville Road widening (50MPH, no sidewalks), Emerson Avenue widening from Shelbyville to Southport Roads (sidewalk added on one side of the street; nobody should walk or ride a bus to Target), and countless other examples of sidewalks and crosswalks that are clearly designed/planned by people who don't walk anywhere but through a parking lot from the car to the door.

Do people think we are really going to land another Super Bowl because of how we've made our downtown so event friendly? Not until we spend $2-3B on the next new stadium. Even terrible, scary, ultra-blighted Detroit got to host the SB as a reward for ponying up tax dollars for a new stadium.

Olympic Bid (http://www.theonion.com/articles/indianapolis-announces-really-embarrassing-bid-for,26149/)

Looks like we only had to wait 1 day for the big news! Although it doesn't mention Georgia St. specifically, this must be what necessitates the name change.

The funding of IDI, in general, and specifically their work to change the street name is a boondoggle.

Do people think we are really going to land another Super Bowl because of how we've made our downtown so event friendly? Not until we spend $2-3B on the next new stadium. Even terrible, scary, ultra-blighted Detroit got to host the SB as a reward for ponying up tax dollars for a new stadium.

Idyllic, the goal is not to land another Super Bowl, but rather to promote the city as an ideal venue for conventions and sports events, and sports and conventions are two big industries for the city. Also, whether the federal grant money could have been applied to another project is a moot one. The money is spent, time to move on. But, I will make my own point about how the city improperly shifts funds around.

I do agree Indianapolis needs to build quality infrastructure throughout the whole city, but that is not something that necessarily requires federal grants, nor does not it mean less money needs to be spent building infrastructure downtown. Hundreds of millions of dollars, and in some years, billions of dollars are spent on local and state infrastructure projects throughout the city. The issue is the poor design and the lack of proper planning for these projects. The same amount of money, or a bit more, could have been spent building far better projects than the list you cite of bad results.

Perhaps even more important for the city is for it to MAINTAIN the infrastructure it has built. More money does need to be allocated each year to routine maintenance to prevent infrastructure from completely deterioriating before it is replaced. Where would the money come from? Why the same magic pot that is constantly being dipped into whenever a big business, or a politically well-connected developer, or one of the professional sports teams comes to the city with their hands out. Yes, I know the answer is always, "Oh, well that comes from the blah, blah, blah fund which can only be used for blah, blah, blah," but at the end of the day it is all the taxpayers' money and it is somehow always available for whatever purpose the city wishes it to be used for, regardless of the supposed legal restrictions, etc. When the Pacers need money, city and state funds, including local property taxes that are not supposed to go to sports teams, are laundered through the CIB to go straight into the Simons' pockets. Also, Mayor Ballard says he cannot touch TIF funds (and TIFs do divert funds that would otherwise go toward services) to pay for operating expenses, but then suddenly he can tap the Downtown TIF by claiming through phony accounting that it was "overpaid." And, when the North of South/City Way private developer wants to build a project on Lilly's land, the city has no problem issuing bonds to finance nearly the full cost of the $150 million project, plus promising millions of dollars in infrastructure improvements. Yes, to use a bit of a tired analogy, the amount of smoke and mirrors in the city budget is like something out of a bad Vegas nightclub act. If the city leaders (and the voters) would get their priorities straight, there would be plenty of money for nice infrastructure downtown and throughout the whole city. There would also be more money to pay for schools, parks, police, etc.

Olympic Bid (http://www.theonion.com/articles/indianapolis-announces-really-embarrassing-bid-for,26149/)

Looks like we only had to wait 1 day for the big news! Although it doesn't mention Georgia St. specifically, this must be what necessitates the name change.

Wow, that had me rolling.:rofl:

Wow, that had me rolling.:rofl:

The video is great.

Olympic Bid (http://www.theonion.com/articles/indianapolis-announces-really-embarrassing-bid-for,26149/)

Looks like we only had to wait 1 day for the big news! Although it doesn't mention Georgia St. specifically, this must be what necessitates the name change.

:lol:

Went by Winona at lunchtime and was surprised to see many cars in the parking lot along Illinois. Then I saw workers donning protective gear, which I assume is for asbestos or other hazmat abatement prior to demolition.

Interesting, one of IBJ's feature articles this week is about the Nordstrom's space downtown and Simon Property's plan to divide up the 1st floor into 4 individual spaces for restaurants (there's 70,000 sq ft on the 1st floor). Among the restaurants quoted as having an interest are the Cheesecake Factory, BJ's restaurant, ESPN Zone, and Hofbrauhaus German pub (all chains unfortunately).

They say that leasing out the 1st floor would generate interest for the remaining portion of the former store. Macy's was identified as a possible tenant for the remaining space.

So basically downtown gets more chain restaurants and a Macy's (yawn)

Idyllic, the goal is not to land another Super Bowl, but rather to promote the city as an ideal venue for conventions and sports events, and sports and conventions are two big industries for the city. Also, whether the federal grant money could have been applied to another project is a moot one. The money is spent, time to move on. But, I will make my own point about how the city improperly shifts funds around.

I do agree Indianapolis needs to build quality infrastructure throughout the whole city, but that is not something that necessarily requires federal grants, nor does not it mean less money needs to be spent building infrastructure downtown. Hundreds of millions of dollars, and in some years, billions of dollars are spent on local and state infrastructure projects throughout the city. The issue is the poor design and the lack of proper planning for these projects. The same amount of money, or a bit more, could have been spent building far better projects than the list you cite of bad results.

Perhaps even more important for the city is for it to MAINTAIN the infrastructure it has built. More money does need to be allocated each year to routine maintenance to prevent infrastructure from completely deterioriating before it is replaced. Where would the money come from? Why the same magic pot that is constantly being dipped into whenever a big business, or a politically well-connected developer, or one of the professional sports teams comes to the city with their hands out. Yes, I know the answer is always, "Oh, well that comes from the blah, blah, blah fund which can only be used for blah, blah, blah," but at the end of the day it is all the taxpayers' money and it is somehow always available for whatever purpose the city wishes it to be used for, regardless of the supposed legal restrictions, etc. When the Pacers need money, city and state funds, including local property taxes that are not supposed to go to sports teams, are laundered through the CIB to go straight into the Simons' pockets. Also, Mayor Ballard says he cannot touch TIF funds (and TIFs do divert funds that would otherwise go toward services) to pay for operating expenses, but then suddenly he can tap the Downtown TIF by claiming through phony accounting that it was "overpaid." And, when the North of South/City Way private developer wants to build a project on Lilly's land, the city has no problem issuing bonds to finance nearly the full cost of the $150 million project, plus promising millions of dollars in infrastructure improvements. Yes, to use a bit of a tired analogy, the amount of smoke and mirrors in the city budget is like something out of a bad Vegas nightclub act. If the city leaders (and the voters) would get their priorities straight, there would be plenty of money for nice infrastructure downtown and throughout the whole city. There would also be more money to pay for schools, parks, police, etc.

It is never time to move on - if boondoggles like this are ignored; there will be just more of it being shoved down our throats.

Georgia Street is a boondoggle because the so-called "convention industry" is subsidized by billions of dollars of infrastructure and give-aways that never stop in order to support what amounts to much less than 4% of the economy (primarily it is this low because the majority of work is low wage) - it is a virtual infrastructure Ponzi scheme, with the only payoff going to a privileged few. Georgia Street is an over-the-top (not just merely "nice") infrastructure project (and future maintenance nightmare) that makes the second-rate RepaveIndy and DemolishIndy projects more gut-wrenching and absurd than they would otherwise be.

And all of those repaving projects, particularly on heavily traveled streets are literally paving over the real problems. The potholes will reappear in the same places as before within two years, because they did not fix the base layer.

It is never time to move on - if boondoggles like this are ignored; there will be just more of it being shoved down our throats.

Freelunch, if you can cite one example when based on the consequences of boondoggles of the past, Indianapolis has ever passed up an opportunity to fund a new project consider by at least some people to be another boondoggle, then I would love to hear about it. Each successive city administration proposes its own spending agenda, and some of the spending is always directed toward projects of questionable value (at least in some people's opinion) that tend to benefit the politically well-connected. So, yes, it is time to move on.

Stop wasting energy on what has been done, and focus on changes to make going forward to fix the systemic problems with the city's budgeting process and its tax abatement/tax subsidy policies. The Georgia Street project, which has some aspects I like (its financing not being one of them), is nearly built, and call it what you will, but what is done is done. Moroever, the money spent on it is but a mere drop in the bucket in the city's total spending on misplaced priorities. It is only about a third of the total amount of the recently approved extra subsidy for the Pacers (on top of all the other city money funneled toward them), and less than a one-tenth of the total financing and infrastructure support package for North of South/City Way (private development built on Lilly owned land and primarily to benefit Lilly's corporate campus), etc. There could never be another Georgia Street project built ever again, and the city would still direct hundreds of millions of dollars of tax dollars toward big developers, big business, and big political players.

I had high hopes for this project but have increasingly come to dislike the project's execution. I like the limestone and hardie panel elements, I hate the cheap plastic windows, lap-siding and concrete block elements. Overall, I think there is just too much going on; too many colors, materials etc. I thought modernism was in part about simple forms and honest materals... Apparently not in Indianapolis.

I seems like they should have at least respected the neighborhood's window guidelines (they don't allow white vinyl windows in the Old North Side do they?). I know the building is not technically in the Old North Side, I still think that would have been the respectful thing to do.

Oops, I was referring to 16 Park.

I was exploring the Minneapolis-St. Paul SSC thread the other day, daydreaming about how nice it would be to have three apartment/mixed-use skyscrapers under construction. Or have three mixed-use skyscrapers period. Or three skyscrapers period.

Anyway, as I nurtured my jealousy, I found this article posted on their boards that I thought was interesting and worth a read for those of us interested in Indy's development. Twin Cities Population Shifts Toward Central Core. (http://finance-commerce.com/2011/09/culture-change-or-fad-twin-cities-population-shifts-toward-central-core/) It's an interesting discussion of the success story of transit-oriented development in that metro area (one that is, without a doubt, the best midwestern metro I've ever visited). Indy could certainly learn a thing or two from MSP.

We need Melina Kennedy ASAP!

:okay:

Interesting, one of IBJ's feature articles this week is about the Nordstrom's space downtown and Simon Property's plan to divide up the 1st floor into 4 individual spaces for restaurants (there's 70,000 sq ft on the 1st floor). Among the restaurants quoted as having an interest are the Cheesecake Factory, BJ's restaurant, ESPN Zone, and Hofbrauhaus German pub (all chains unfortunately).

They say that leasing out the 1st floor would generate interest for the remaining portion of the former store. Macy's was identified as a possible tenant for the remaining space.

So basically downtown gets more chain restaurants and a Macy's (yawn)

YAWN indeed.... not surprised at all to be honest.

I don't think the Nordstrom plan is as YAWN as you guys think it is. Think about it: the Nordstrom building occupies 2 blocks worth of street frontage -- 1/2 a block on Maryland, 1 on Meridian and 1/2 on Georgia -- that is completely dead aside from the tiny outdoor seating space where the Espresso Bar was. Even the Nordstrom Grill did jack squat for activating the sidewalk (due to the window treatment, you almost didn't know anything was there when you walked by). Restaurants, whether they're chains or not, will be a HUGE improvement to sidewalk activity around that area. Another mall anchor taking all three levels (even if it was the Target that everybody seems to want) would not have done that.

As a beer nerd, I'll note that getting a Hofbrauhaus would be pretty cool. As of right now, there are only a handful of them in the US. Of course, Indy already has an authentic German restaurant with the Rathskeller, but who says there can't be two great places to enjoy German beer in downtown?

Thinking about it a little more, I wish Simon would carve out a couple SMALL retail spaces along the Nordstrom frontage. That would help to break up the monotony of all the restaurants at ground level in downtown. How about a nice little Radio Shack next to the ESPN Zone so that a visitor can pick up a bluetooth headset for the one that they forgot to pack?

Thinking about it a little more, I wish Simon would carve out a couple SMALL retail spaces along the Nordstrom frontage. That would help to break up the monotony of all the restaurants at ground level in downtown. How about a nice little Radio Shack next to the ESPN Zone so that a visitor can pick up a bluetooth headset for the one that they forgot to pack?

Your radio shack reference requires that I post this (http://www.theonion.com/articles/even-ceo-cant-figure-out-how-radioshack-still-in-b,2190/).

Interesting, one of IBJ's feature articles this week is about the Nordstrom's space downtown and Simon Property's plan to divide up the 1st floor into 4 individual spaces for restaurants (there's 70,000 sq ft on the 1st floor). Among the restaurants quoted as having an interest are the Cheesecake Factory, BJ's restaurant, ESPN Zone, and Hofbrauhaus German pub (all chains unfortunately).



I coudn't imagine too many local restaurateurs would have deep enough pockets for that space. One can only imagine how expensive it would be to lease space there, and the GLA is nothing to shake a stick at. How often do Mom and Pop restaurants open in malls anyway--at least the successful ones? Is the one non-chain that I'm aware of, Bella Vita I think it's called, doing very well in its windowless corner at Circle Centre? Is it still in business? It's probably a good sign that national chains would want to locate there--it indicates the continued viability of Circle Centre as a whole. And it's this same reason that risky local ventures have to choose a smaller, less visible space that inevitably costs less. Witness The Libertine taking up a space occupied previously by a short-lived deli (more of a convenience store if you ask me).

It is kind of surprising though that Macy's would only want to take two floors.

So basically downtown gets more chain restaurants and a Macy's (yawn)

This is a surprise? Don't all Simon malls have chain restaurants and a Macy's?

And isn't criticizing that kind of like criticizing mass-market newspapers or TV networks? Give the conventioneers and tourists what they know and love. The adventurous ones will get in a cab or walk past the mall and find something different.

Indie bars, restaurants and shops will go to (lower-rent) places where the right vibe exists: FS, Mass Ave, BR, Irvington, College Ave., South St./Warehouse District. And that's just fine with me.

Your radio shack reference requires that I post this (http://www.theonion.com/articles/even-ceo-cant-figure-out-how-radioshack-still-in-b,2190/).

Hilarious!

It is kind of surprising though that Macy's would only want to take two floors.
Did a couple quick calculations on this, if anybody else is curious.

According to IBJ (http://www.ibj.com/multiple-tenants-likely-needed-to-plug-nordstrom-hole/PARAMS/article/27524), the whole Nordstrom space is 210k sq.ft. If we assume the floors are evenly divided, the 2nd and 3rd floors are about 140k sq.ft

According to this Macy's page (http://www.macysinc.com/investors/storeinformation/squarefootage.aspx): as of Q3 2011, they have 96 Midwest stores with a total of 16,531k sq.ft. That works out to about 172k per Midwest store. With only two floors, this location would be about 32k below average. With three floors, they'd be about 38k above average.

Apparently they'd prefer to undershoot their average at this location.

^^ The first floor that Nordstrom occupied had twice as much retail space on it compared to the second or third floors. The actual floor layout for Nordstrom was probably more like: 1st floor -- 105,000 sq ft; 2nd floor -- 52,500 sq ft; 3rd floor -- 52,500 sq ft.

This means, if the first floor becomes the home of numerous restaurants, the remaining retail space available on the 2nd and 3rd floors for a Macy's (or Target? or whatever) is about 105,000 sq. feet. That is a little small. They might be able to change a few things around though - to gain some more space -- who knows.

I haven't actually seen the article but BosartBrown says 70,000 sq ft on the 1st floor:

Interesting, one of IBJ's feature articles this week is about the Nordstrom's space downtown and Simon Property's plan to divide up the 1st floor into 4 individual spaces for restaurants (there's 70,000 sq ft on the 1st floor). Among the restaurants quoted as having an interest are the Cheesecake Factory, BJ's restaurant, ESPN Zone, and Hofbrauhaus German pub (all chains unfortunately).

They say that leasing out the 1st floor would generate interest for the remaining portion of the former store. Macy's was identified as a possible tenant for the remaining space.

So basically downtown gets more chain restaurants and a Macy's (yawn)

This is a surprise? Don't all Simon malls have chain restaurants and a Macy's?

And isn't criticizing that kind of like criticizing mass-market newspapers or TV networks? Give the conventioneers and tourists what they know and love. The adventurous ones will get in a cab or walk past the mall and find something different.

Indie bars, restaurants and shops will go to (lower-rent) places where the right vibe exists: FS, Mass Ave, BR, Irvington, College Ave., South St./Warehouse District. And that's just fine with me.

It doesn't surprise me at all.. And I recognize that its good for the downtown economy. I'm sure there's a lot of people that are really stoked for a downtown cheesecake factory..I'm just not one of them.

http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/blog/propertylines/Ops-Center-rendering.jpg

The IBJ article (Corey Schouten) doesn't give a lot of new info. I'm happy to see something's still going on around MSA. This'll be huge for Market Street (and me).

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but the homeless are back in force at the site.

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2011/09/27/new-rendering-bank-one-ops-center-redevelopment/PARAMS/post/29782

New rendering: Bank One Ops Center redevelopment

The company charged with redeveloping the former Bank One Operations Center downtown is recruiting tenants for the mixed-use apartment and retail project. A flier from Milhaus Development shows a retail component of 40,000 square feet with asking rents between $18 and $20 per square foot. It also includes the rendering above. Suggested users include "brewery, restaurant, grocery, pharmacy, restaurant." The $30 million project has dragged on for more than three years as the developer, city and property owners tried to sort out financing, timing and valuation. A lawsuit brought in May by the principals of Kosene & Kosene Development, former partners of Milhaus principal Tadd Miller, added another wrinkle. The Kosenes alleged Miller took their money to launch the effort, then tried to cut them out of the city-supported deal. It wasn't clear when Milhaus plans to begin work on the project. Developers often begin marketing new space for lease before construction begins. Miller did not immediately return a phone message.

I posted the same rendering (http://www.urbanindy.com/2010/07/16/proposal-for-bank-one-operations-center/) last year.

I posted the same rendering (http://www.urbanindy.com/2010/07/16/proposal-for-bank-one-operations-center/) last year.

Weird... Are you going to post that in the comments section? I'd bet that Corey would respond.

Bizzaro for Cory. That rendering is ancient.

What burns me is that this is what Milhaus has in the works for Carmel:

http://assets.21fingers.net/s/5oIGtlY4/items/4941/data_photo_1s/original_penncircle_lowres.jpg

and Memphis:

http://assets.21fingers.net/s/5oIGtlY4/items/3760/data_photo_1s/original_highland-row.jpg

Why are they shitting on Indy with that crap-ass facade for the Bank One redevelopment?

Because that is what developers do here, they shit on Indy.

Of course, they have to work with what is there too. So that may have something to do with it.

Of course, they have to work with what is there too. So that may have something to do with it.

Seems like if they already have a lot of the foundation and lower level structure they would have saved enough to be able to invest more on the exterior finish.

I attended the mayoral debate this afternoon and both candidates recognized the need for mass transit in Indianapolis. It might not mean much, but it is a signal that the issue is ripe for the next administration to actually, and publicly, address.

In response to ballard trying to take credit for the formation of indyconnect, Kennedy called out ballard on spending four years with indyconnect and not getting a plan on the table for the public. Kennedy wants a viable plan and a referendum for the public to vote on, no more delays. Ballard said that we will see a final plan in the near future.

Encouraging...

It may be quiet as far as press releases go, but there is plenty of fire going on behind the scenes right now.

Just a Question:

Someone on IBJ regarding the operations center put this comment in regarding the cultural trail: Is this true??????

Post:

Speaking of the SB
JoeSeptember 27, 2011 2:58 PM

Rumor on the street (literally on the street from one of the guys working on the project) is that the portion of the cultural trail extending along Washington Street will NOT be done in time for the SB.

Great planning, fellas!

Just a Question:

Someone on IBJ regarding the operations center put this comment in regarding the cultural trail: Is this true??????

Post:

Speaking of the SB
JoeSeptember 27, 2011 2:58 PM

Rumor on the street (literally on the street from one of the guys working on the project) is that the portion of the cultural trail extending along Washington Street will NOT be done in time for the SB.

Great planning, fellas!

I can tell you from personal experience (as can others on this board) that what you hear from people working on the trail may or may not be accurate. I don't know if it will be done on time. I know they're a bit behind schedule, but this post is clearly just a rumor.

Perhaps we get inferior design because we don't make our preferences known? Indy seems to be influenced heavily by its large suburban population base. Elected officials don't need to please the core residents or those that actually care, but simply feed the commuting public. What incentive is there for a developer to provide a truly great design, when mediocrity lines our streets as standard?

As far as the Washington Street segment of the Cultural Trail being completed by the SB --- I don't have any inside information but I would think the part between Alabama and Capitol will be complete. It has been announced that the part to the west of that area - between West Street and Capitol, next to the State House and Government Center, will not even start until next Spring however. I'm fine with that. It is a very wide sidewalk that is in decent shape. It is definitely best that they do not start on it and then have it all dug up over the winter. The four block stretch between Illinois and Alabama is fairly close to being done right now. The only part that still really looks like a complete mess is the one block between Capitol and Illinois - in front of the IRT. Not sure if there is a problem -- but that area looks pretty torn up. As the other sections of Washington Street get completed - I'm thinking they will be able to shift man power to that one block if necessary. There are over four months to go. I don't think there will be any trouble, really. I remember the way things were a complete mess with the sidewalks all around Circle Centre as close as the last week before the mall opened. Then in the last three or four days - everything got finished. Again -- I feel strongly that the Cultural Trail along the central part of Washington Street will be ready by the end of the year --and even more sure that it will be done by Feb. 5th.

The section between Delaware and Penn will be complete (besides some pavers) in two weeks. The section between Capitol and Illinois is problematic because of some unforeseen and incorrectly mapped utilities. (AT&T mostly)

Here's a +1 to Indianapolis from a Florida Sun-Times sports columnist saying JAX can learn from IND: link here (http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/455124/mark-woods/2011-09-28/indianapolis-offers-lessons-downtowning)

Ive written some questionable posts for the blog at times, but this from the Star today is deplorable for it's headline.

"Downtown Inn"? What about that location is DOWNTOWN? If you live in Knightstown maybe it could be perceived as DT, but in the metro area... this writer needs slapped. Way to make the city look bad...

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110928/LOCAL18/109280370/Downtown-inn-struggles-fight-label-worst-hotel?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

Ive written some questionable posts for the blog at times, but this from the Star today is deplorable for it's headline.

"Downtown Inn"? What about that location is DOWNTOWN? If you live in Knightstown maybe it could be perceived as DT, but in the metro area... this writer needs slapped. Way to make the city look bad...

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110928/LOCAL18/109280370/Downtown-inn-struggles-fight-label-worst-hotel?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

Some of the wording looks like it was written by a kid in junior high too. "The room had a refrigerator, too, and a flat-screen TV that got a ton of channels".

Ive written some questionable posts for the blog at times, but this from the Star today is deplorable for it's headline.

"Downtown Inn"? What about that location is DOWNTOWN? If you live in Knightstown maybe it could be perceived as DT, but in the metro area... this writer needs slapped. Way to make the city look bad...

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110928/LOCAL18/109280370/Downtown-inn-struggles-fight-label-worst-hotel?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

I'm not sure how something OUTSIDE 465 could possibly be stretched into "downtown". The editor who okayed that headline needs a headslap.

Well, Indystar has conveniently changed it to say "Southside" now, but if you roll over the links in my post as well as the two that quote it, it clearly was "downtown" at one point.

Apparently, we CAN make a differen

Has anyone ever expected the Star to be anything more than poorly written? I guess when I was in grade school I might have thought the Star was well written.

Ive written some questionable posts for the blog at times, but this from the Star today is deplorable for it's headline.

"Downtown Inn"? What about that location is DOWNTOWN? If you live in Knightstown maybe it could be perceived as DT, but in the metro area... this writer needs slapped. Way to make the city look bad...

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110928/LOCAL18/109280370/Downtown-inn-struggles-fight-label-worst-hotel?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

Hey, it's at 602 EAST Thompson Road, and the story involved crime. I'm surprised the Eastside avoided being saddled with this one.

Hey, it's at 602 EAST Thompson Road, and the story involved crime. I'm surprised the Eastside avoided being saddled with this one.

:lol:

Because that is what developers do here, they shit on Indy.

Of course, they have to work with what is there too. So that may have something to do with it.

Too many Indy projects have sameness. No excuse for these projects to look like they are built in towns up here in the north of the state. The city again deserves better!:ohno:

$10.5M project will convert 1888 Solotken building into the Harding Street Lofts (http://www.indystar.com/article/20110928/BUSINESS/109280313/Recycling-warehouse-gets-new-life-apartments?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|s)

This looks like it could be a great project. Only time will tell if we can get more development into the area just to the west of the river downtown, but it could be poised for reasonable growth. Perhaps a nice Calatrava pedestrian bridge? A guy can dream, can't he?

At least for today, raising rabble has proven fruitful:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110929/NEWS/110929011/City-halt-Georgia-Street-renaming-process-now

Well --- I know I'll be paying attention at 11:00 am Friday morning to hear what is going to happen on and around Georgia Street.

I picked up this week's IBJ today so I could read the full story about Simon's ideas for the south end of the mall. Nothing too new to present that hasn't already been discussed here - although they did mention a few additional restaurants that supposedly might be looking to open on the first floor of the mall (that haven't already been mentioned in this thread). These included "Ocean Prime", part of the Cameron Mitchell seafood restaurants group and also Gordon Biersch Restaurant and Brewery.

It'll be good to hear if there are some official plans to announce -- maybe some new renderings of proposed improvements planned for the exterior of the mall - and maybe the names of some businesses that have signed to open in the mall. Even better would be to hear some news about some other type of good project happening along or near Georgia Street. I'd love to hear something new and improved announced for the Pan Am Plaza block. We'll see ......

Just out of curiosity, does anybody know if the facadectomy portions of Nordstrom's exterior put building facades back roughly where they originally stood? Or did the City/Simon move things around to create a new facade they liked?

^^ It was a mix of both types. There were a few existing building facades that were left standing in place - and then the mall was built behind them and later connected to the preserved, historic wall facade. There also were places where facades from other nearby places were moved to the site. A few facades were moved during the construction while others had been kept in storage for quite a few years and were then brought out to be connected onto the Circle Centre structure. For example, the iron fronted facade along Meridian Street - where the Nordstrom Cafe was - is a facade that had been kept in storage for many years and then brought back up and put in place at the S. Meridian Street location.

While we're on the topic -- in my opinion, one of the most impressive facadectomies in downtown is the building that Buca de Beppa is in on N. Illinois Street. They left about a seven or eight story facade standing and built a parking garage behind it -- with a restaurant on the first floor. I'm sure almost no one - particularly visitors from out of town -has any idea that the building Buca is in isn't a real building - but is just a front with a parking garage behind it.


Also -- still speaking of facadectomies -- I really like the way the former St. Vincent's hospital is looking as part of the Ivy Tech campus along N. Illinois Street. I think the two looks -- the historic and the new addition - blend very well. If anyone is in the vicinity and can get a picture or two -- as the building construction is nearing completion -- it would be excellent.

Just out of curiosity, does anybody know if the facadectomy portions of Nordstrom's exterior put building facades back roughly where they originally stood? Or did the City/Simon move things around to create a new facade they liked?
From my memory, as to Nordstrom on Meridian St. and Maryland St., either the same or almost the same position. I do not believe any of the Nordstrom facades were moved from down or across the street, like the Rost facade on Illinois and the one historic facade on Washington St.

I have tried not to get too excited about whatever is going to be announced today. It is being touted as a "big announcement" but for the past two months, insignificant announcements have been called, "big".

While it would be nice to see something happen to Pan Am Plaza, does anyone think anything is REALLY going to happen right now? I dont eveb know what they can do this close to the NCAA football championship & Super Bowl.

^^ Yes -- probably nothing will be started in the near future -- but still, it would be nice to have something announced and maybe get a large "Coming Soon" sign mounted on a downtown corner that shows a good looking drawing of the type of project that will be starting construction soon -- maybe in March 2012. Maybe the sign could help hide some of the cracked steps at Pan Am Plaza.

I have tried not to get too excited about whatever is going to be announced today. It is being touted as a "big announcement" but for the past two months, insignificant announcements have been called, "big".


Well when a mediocre mayor is trying to get reelected with the schools and police in disarray he is going try to fluff up any positives he can. Especially when he is running against someone like Melina Kennedy.

Good grief .... this is a development thread. I'm sure there are other places you can discuss the upcoming Mayoral election and your perceived "positives" and "negatives" that you might feel for each of the candidates.

The mayor is instrumental in the development of our city. Eg. the short sighted Georgia St. renaming push. The first thing Ballard did when he took office was create a schedule to cut funding to the arts. Increases in crime have a big impact on development of blighted areas. How many people do you know that chose to live outside of center township because of the schools?

Art matters, the police matter, our schools matter, development matters, so the mayor matters. Especially in our discussions here.

Did you check the announcement yet? 30 monuments sounds like overkill to me. I guess I will have to wait and see what the plan actually looks like. I personally think that Indianapolis has a monument problem. We salute the dead and war, but we never salute the future.

11:18 am update:
Pillars of Hoosiers' likenesses to line Georgia Street
City leaders and 2012 Super Bowl hosts today announced plans to honor "great Hoosiers" along Georgia Street.

“We have been working for close to a year on a plan to showcase great Hoosiers along the new event space currently being constructed on Georgia Street,” said Mayor Ballard in a news release. “I never felt comfortable honoring great Hoosiers on a street named after another state, but after listening to a lot of public input, I have asked Indianapolis Downtown, Inc. to stop the street renaming process while we finalize the plans for these memorials and gather additional public input.”

Ballard’s plan calls for up to 30 six-foot-tall pillars lining the boardwalk featuring the likeness and short biography of honored Hoosiers. The sidewalks will feature historical markers identifying key historical facts about the street. The Indianapolis Super Bowl Host Committee is donating the cost of the first 15 pillars and sidewalk markers.

The pillars and markers will be incorporated into the $12 million in improvements being made to Georgia Street that include creation of a pedestrian mall, overhead canopies, enhanced lighting and landscaping, and public event space.



I wonder how they'll decide which Hoosiers to pick. Oh boy.

Im glad that I didnt get excited because again, not very exciting.

We do good about honroring our past here and I am fine with that.

However, this whole thing reeks. Why would the city have started a public name change campaign without anything to back this up? All the hints that have been dropped regarding the name change have been about how to preserve this corridor as an event space; and changing the name to go with that.

Protests have done good to point out the historic nature of hte street. And then today's news about honoring past hoosiers... wouldnt that have been key information to have?

*sigh* Another overhyped press conference and what appears to be backpedalling. It tells me that whatever came out of the IDI name changing was never going to be close to this. Why don't they just call it now and change it to the Hoosier Heritage Walk or something...

#facepalm

I agree that the previous name "contest" was ill-conceived without this info. I'm actually (naively) hoping that this makes it harder to rename Georgia St. It seems silly to tout our historic buildings and figures while at the same time scrapping a 190 year old name.

Good grief .... this is a development thread. I'm sure there are other places you can discuss the upcoming Mayoral election and your perceived "positives" and "negatives" that you might feel for each of the candidates.

thank you!

Good grief .... this is a development thread. I'm sure there are other places you can discuss the upcoming Mayoral election and your perceived "positives" and "negatives" that you might feel for each of the candidates.

Who the Mayor is has a huge impact on development in the city. So, I am not sure what your point is?

So, long as a post is in some way related to development (and that particular post was), then it is appropriate. Whether you agree with the content or not is a separate matter.

If someone is using foul or abusive language, then report it to the moderator. Beyond those rare situations, you are in control of what you read. If you something doesn't interest you or otherwise turns you off, then just skip it and move on.

thank you!

No, thank you! Perhaps you guys should start your own separate forum, as it seems you want something entirely different from this forum than its intended purpose.

As for the new Georgia Street plans, personally I'm alright with it, but I did notice what Ballard is trying to do, there was even a quote about it in the article in the Star. He is using this project as an eventual justificaton for renaming the street, saying (and I'm paraprasing) that it made no sense for all these monuments that are reconizing Hoosiers to be on a street named for another state. So, it seems he still is in favor of it and may use this project to perhaps sway some people into thinking "gosh he's right" and agree that changing the name is a good idea. Personally, I hope this fails and I do not think many people will fall for the ploy. Finally, where was all this support for keeping the streets of the Ralston Plan in place as they are when Tennesee and Louisiana Streets became Capitol and Senate?

As for the new Georgia Street plans, personally I'm alright with it, but I did notice what Ballard is trying to do, there was even a quote about it in the article in the Star. He is using this project as an eventual justificaton for renaming the street, saying (and I'm paraprasing) that it made no sense for all these monuments that are reconizing Hoosiers to be on a street named for another state. So, it seems he still is in favor of it and may use this project to perhaps sway some people into thinking "gosh he's right" and agree that changing the name is a good idea. Personally, I hope this fails and I do not think many people will fall for the ploy. Finally, where was all this support for keeping the streets of the Ralston Plan in place as they are when Tennesee and Louisiana Streets became Capitol and Senate?

Louisiana is still Louisiana. Downtown, there is one block from Capitol to Illinois (runs between Crowne Plaza Hotel and Pan Am Plaza). There is a half-block between the Union Station Headhouse and Meridian.

Senate was Mississippi.

North and South Carolina disappeared under the rail viaduct when the rail lines were elevated more than 100 years ago. (They once bracketed Pogue's Run through the Mile Square.) So there is some precedent for displacing street names with new public works, but it's a weak one. This street is still there, not buried under 20 feet of viaduct.

No, thank you! Perhaps you guys should start your own separate forum, as it seems you want something entirely different from this forum than its intended purpose.

Sorry if I offended you. However, I didn't say anything about a political candidate.

It's just not necessary. It isn't the state capitol. Senate and Capitol go to the Senate and the Capitol.

Over branding the new development disrespects the history of our city and cheapens what this section of Georgia Street should be. People don't need a street name change to understand what the project is and what it means. 360 branding is not necessary if the product is high quality.

As for the totem poles...
30 is a lot to pack in to a space that already has tons of stuff going on. My initial reaction is that each block should be dedicated to one or two major Indiana residents. One tasteful monument per block. Spend whatever is left over on sculpture by Indiana artists (or Indiana inspired artists), a long term programming budget, facade and business grants, general usability improvements, or something that helps the old area interface with what is already an incredible project.

The cultural trail memorial installations are nice, but the rest of the art on the trail is what gives the trail it's character.

I know this makes me a total hypocrite, but if Ballard had proposed renaming Georgia street to Kurt Vonnegut street... I'd privately be all for it... Publicly I'd be filled with righteous indignation of course...

Sorry about confusing Lousiana with Mississippi, I now remember that it was that. Forgot all about North and South Carolina Streets. It is interesting to me at least, that it is all Southern U.S. state names that had disappeared (with the excpetion of Louisiana.) I had wondered if the Georgia Street renaming had gone ahead, would Alabama be too far off? City-County Blvd? Actually, I'll shut up...don't want to give the city an ideas.

Sorry if I offended you. However, I didn't say anything about a political candidate.

You did not offend me.

My point was that posters should be able to post about political candidates, or the Mayor, or race relations, or the financial crisis, or art, or whatever else they feel like posting about that is somehow related to development. This forum is a broad discussion about development, not just a laundry list of current development projects--if you want that, it is already covered by Cory's blog in the IBJ, which has its own posting forum.

What got the original critic of the "political comment" annoyed was not that the post was supposedly off-topic (the Mayor has a tremendous amount of impact on development in the city), rather they were upset because they disagreed with the other poster's criticism of Mayor Ballard. Fine, if they want to disagree with the content, then just say, "I like Mayor Ballard because...," but they shouldn't post some nonsense accusation about how another's post is not appropriate for the forum in some lame attempt to shut them down.

As I said commented above, aside from the rare occasion when someone truly violates the terms of this message board, in which case, you should notify a moderator, if an individual cannot deal with different opinions, then they should just choose not to read posts they are either not interested in or with which they disagree.

Louisiana is still Louisiana. Downtown, there is one block from Capitol to Illinois (runs between Crowne Plaza Hotel and Pan Am Plaza). There is a half-block between the Union Station Headhouse and Meridian.

Senate was Mississippi.

North and South Carolina disappeared under the rail viaduct when the rail lines were elevated more than 100 years ago. (They once bracketed Pogue's Run through the Mile Square.) So there is some precedent for displacing street names with new public works, but it's a weak one. This street is still there, not buried under 20 feet of viaduct.

I neglected to add that Kentucky is also gone from the Mile Square, displaced by the Convention Center and steam plant.

Interestingly, state names were also applied to streets outside the Mile Square as the city expanded. Minnesota is a notable example. Without resorting to Google or Bing maps, can anyone pinpoint the curious locations of Nevada and North Dakota Streets? :-)

I neglected to add that Kentucky is also gone from the Mile Square, displaced by the Convention Center and steam plant.
....and the Hyatt!

I neglected to add that Kentucky is also gone from the Mile Square, displaced by the Convention Center and steam plant.

Interestingly, state names were also applied to streets outside the Mile Square as the city expanded. Minnesota is a notable example. Without resorting to Google or Bing maps, can anyone pinpoint the curious locations of Nevada and North Dakota Streets? :-)

Also...do any of our history buffs know if Washington Blvd. represents a conscious renaming of Alabama St. north of Fall Creek, or if it honors the state of Washington (as oposed to Washington St., which directly honored George), or both? The rest of the streets between Meridian and Central (East) north of the creek have the same names south of the creek.

Since the "streetcar suburban" neighborhoods north of the creek started developing in earnest around 1885- 1900, an anti-Southern bias isn't out of the question

Kangaroo: "What got the original critic of the "political comment" annoyed was not that the post was supposedly off-topic (the Mayor has a tremendous amount of impact on development in the city), rather they were upset because they disagreed with the other poster's criticism of Mayor Ballard. Fine, if they want to disagree with the content, then just say, "I like Mayor Ballard because...," but they shouldn't post some nonsense accusation about how another's post is not appropriate for the forum in some lame attempt to shut them down."

Kangaroo you're just wrong. I'm not any huge booster of the Mayor -- nor am I at all opposed to Melina Kennedy. I typically vote Democrat -- and quite likely could do it again this year in the Mayor's race. I didn't oppose the comment EddieB317 made because I disagreed with his thought. I just didn't want this thread getting off track with people spinning opinions back and forth based on their own political slants. That's enough on that -- but I just wanted to let Kangaroo know that he was wrong to say that I made my post because I disagreed with EddieB317's opinion about Mayor Ballard (and Melina Kennedy for that matter). That is simply not the case.

Kangaroo you're just wrong.

Garfield, I guess we will disagree, not about your intentions, but about the main issue.

I stand by my point that neither you nor anyone else should play moderator over what constitutes an appropriate post (aside from one that is a true violation of the forum rules). So long as a post is related to development, it is legitimate. Politics are deeply intertwined with development, and every post, whether about politics or not, is an expression of that individual's opinion. So, there is no problem with someone posting about politics (as it relates to development) or drating a post with a particular political slant.

If you don't want to read about a certain issue, then just skip the post. The first sentence usually reveals which direction the poster is going. No one forces you to read every single post. Unless someone is being abusive, intentionally disruptive, posting ads, their dissertation on ancient Egyptian art, or something along those lines, then what they post should not cause anyone to fret over whether or not the post belongs here.

^^ Fine. Just don't try telling everybody on this post what you think my political leanings are - because you obviously have no idea. Thanks.

Does anybody remember seeing an old picture of North Delaware Street with a planted median and 2-way traffic? I have been trying to track it back down. I thought it was in an Urban Times issue, but have yet to rediscover it. I'd like to see how far I could get returning Delaware to a 2-way street....at least through Fall Creek Place.

And yes, I realize it is more than likely a dream.

Does anybody remember seeing an old picture of North Delaware Street with a planted median and 2-way traffic? I have been trying to track it back down. I thought it was in an Urban Times issue, but have yet to rediscover it. I'd like to see how far I could get returning Delaware to a 2-way street....at least through Fall Creek Place.

And yes, I realize it is more than likely a dream.

Look at the Historic Indianapolis blog. I have seen those photos, and I am 90 percent certain that I saw them there.

"North Delaware Street", 1904:

http://www.shorpy.com/files/images/4a30051a.preview.jpg

A GIGANTIC view of this image is available over here (http://www.shorpy.com/node/10794).

Does anybody remember seeing an old picture of North Delaware Street with a planted median and 2-way traffic? I have been trying to track it back down. I thought it was in an Urban Times issue, but have yet to rediscover it. I'd like to see how far I could get returning Delaware to a 2-way street....at least through Fall Creek Place.

And yes, I realize it is more than likely a dream.


I think the photo is part of the bass collection. If I remember I saw something like this or the one you mention on the IUPUI photo archives. Its been 3 years or more since I saw it.

Just curious, has there been any announcement or discussion to the half time show that will be in Lucas Oil Stadium? Usually these shows take time to plan and rehearse etc... If I remember last year, we already knew about the Dallas show by now and who it was.

Thanks for the input guys. That photo is really cool...aside from the creepy ghost woman on the bottom right. The photo I am speaking of is more in the area between 16th and 25th on Delaware. I contacted Historic Indianapolis, but she didn't seem to recall if it was her or not. It seems like I saw it there as well.......but I can't find it in their archives......

I was looking around a little more for you and came across this postcard (http://www.cardcow.com/301692/morton-place-indianapolis/) which I'd never seen before:

http://www.cardcow.com/images/set381/card00269_fr.jpg

Unfortunately it doesn't identify the street and I believe the Herron-Morton sections of New Jersey, Alabama and Delaware all had medians back in the day. Just thought others would be curious to see.

Also, a color version of the above photo:

http://www.cardcow.com/images/set356/card00015_fr.jpg

Just curious, has there been any announcement or discussion to the half time show that will be in Lucas Oil Stadium? Usually these shows take time to plan and rehearse etc... If I remember last year, we already knew about the Dallas show by now and who it was.

It isn't official, but it's supposed to be Madonna.

http://instinctmagazine.com/blogs/blog/reports-indicate-madonna-will-play-super-bowl-halftime-show?directory=100011

Edit - sportingnews.com is reporting it, so it's a pretty reputable rumor.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-10-03/madonna-super-bowl-xlvi-46-halftime-show

Thanks Chris,

The first photo may have been it...but again without proof I can't say. How great Delaware Street could be again if this were permitted. I guess we lowlings in downtown and first tier suburbs must pay homage to commuters like always.

...
Unfortunately it doesn't identify the street and I believe the Herron-Morton sections of New Jersey, Alabama and Delaware all had medians back in the day. Just thought others would be curious to see.
....
New Jersey still does for several blocks in, I think, H-M P.

^^ Fine. Just don't try telling everybody on this post what you think my political leanings are - because you obviously have no idea. Thanks.

Fair enough. You leave everyone else alone, and I am sure they will be happy to do the same.

Now, back to forum.

Big crowds at the new Nordstrom Rack this past weekend. There was a line halfway across the store with people waiting to pay for their purchases. Lots of pretty nice stuff for good prices. Next time I need a new, good tie and don't want to spend $50 on one, I'll go there where you can get very nice ones for $15. There's a new Harry & Izzy's opening up there soon in the River's Edge complex as well.

Broad Ripple garage (http://www.wthr.com/story/15607172/neighbors-concerned-over-changes-to-broad-ripple-parking-garage-plans)

There is a tiny drawing in the story, but has anyone seen the planned changes?

i just stumbled across this post on archdaily.com - has anyone seen this before or have any info on this? looks like it could be good for the community as well as filling in one more vacant lot!

"julia carson community center" in mapleton-fall creek:

http://www.archdaily.com/165345/ball-state-university-college-of-architecture-and-planning-2011-gresham-smith-design-competition-winners/

..

Broad Ripple garage (http://www.wthr.com/story/15607172/neighbors-concerned-over-changes-to-broad-ripple-parking-garage-plans)

There is a tiny drawing in the story, but has anyone seen the planned changes?

I havent seen any redraw yet either. I know the orange sign has been out in the grass median though, so I suspected a new plan was going to be brought up before DMD soon. Anxious to see what it is going to look like.

Broad Ripple garage (http://www.wthr.com/story/15607172/neighbors-concerned-over-changes-to-broad-ripple-parking-garage-plans)

There is a tiny drawing in the story, but has anyone seen the planned changes?
They mention a zoning hearing on 10/11. Normally an MDC staff report would come out sometime later this week with renderings and such, but the article says the neighborhood will ask for an automatic continuance. Often that means no staff report and no renderings until the next hearing. Once there's something online, I'll put it up on Urban Indy.

In today's indystar.com, there's an article on Monument Circle with some interesting photos.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20111004/LOCAL1805/110040325/Monument-Circle-named-great-public-space?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

One is of the Indianapolis Victory Arch which apparently spanned Meridian. What happened to it? Why on earth would they tear it down?

edit - here's a pic from indy.com:

edit 2 - Aaaahhh... here's a quote from indianahistory.org:

The arch was said to be made of plywood, plaster, and chicken wire. It remained standing on the Circle for several months after the parade.

http://assets2.indy.com/photos/427543/default.jpg

What side of town?
Maping Indianapolis Neighborhoods (http://www.indystar.com/article/20111004/LOCAL18/110040386/Neighborhoods-great-obscure-find-home-new-Indy-map?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com)

Nice work ablerock!

Guys, got a favor to ask. Does anyone have a good "before" picture of Georgia St. that shows the four lanes of traffic plus parking in a good streetscape view? I'm presenting on a livability panel in New York City next week and want to showcase this and the Cultural Trail as great, innovative examples coming out of Indy. But I don't have a good before pic for this. Thanks, Aaron.

Dig around in my Convention Center Expansion album. I saw a few you might want to check out. They were taken with my iPhone, so they are not of the highest quality.

https://picasaweb.google.com/EddieB317/IndianaConventionCenter?authuser=0&feat=directlink
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2gF1h3aAybM/TCvId7d7UbI/AAAAAAAAErk/rj1a6u-yKkE/s800/photo%2525204.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Dg1K4iB54HM/TCvIcUmxKNI/AAAAAAAAErQ/30ijLG_meQs/s800/photo%2525202.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rm2JSSMYg6w/TCvIc3BwBaI/AAAAAAAAErY/iclpnhhec6c/s800/photo%2525201.JPG

Guys, got a favor to ask. Does anyone have a good "before" picture of Georgia St. that shows the four lanes of traffic plus parking in a good streetscape view? I'm presenting on a livability panel in New York City next week and want to showcase this and the Cultural Trail as great, innovative examples coming out of Indy. But I don't have a good before pic for this. Thanks, Aaron.

Here are a few I found online:

http://picasaweb.google.com/miklospogonyi/IndianapolisIN#5208121320072558642
http://picasaweb.google.com/miklospogonyi/IndianapolisIN#5208121385179222194
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31970130@N05/3275529847/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/curtispic/3682712525/
http://www.wibc.com/Pics/news/450/georgia_street_050410.jpg
http://media.trb.com/media/thumbnails/story/2010-05/53612859-04144655.jpg
http://www.martencm.com/images/Harness%20Factory%20Lofts%20-1.jpg

Btw, if you haven't checked out Governor's Island, I highly recommend a bike ride around it while you're there.

Guys, got a favor to ask. Does anyone have a good "before" picture of Georgia St. that shows the four lanes of traffic plus parking in a good streetscape view? I'm presenting on a livability panel in New York City next week and want to showcase this and the Cultural Trail as great, innovative examples coming out of Indy. But I don't have a good before pic for this. Thanks, Aaron.

I really don't... which is surprising because i have a "library" of literally thousands of pictures downtown that I've taken over the years..

I hope you're not stuck using screencaps from Google Maps street view! They're pretty good though, all pre-construction at the moment. Maybe not for long.. I saw the google camera car going down Meridian just a couple weeks ago.

For us distant folk down here in Austin, TX:

Is there any update or images of the progress of North of South? I plan to be up in Indy around Nov 10 - 15th for an event there and was going to check things out while there. Cool things is I'll get to see Georgia Street a few days after its completion...

^^ As far as I know right now it's just a lot of dirt for the most part, foundation and underground work. I haven't been by in a while though. I will try to stop by sometime soon and snap a few shots.

For us distant folk down here in Austin, TX:

Is there any update or images of the progress of North of South? I plan to be up in Indy around Nov 10 - 15th for an event there and was going to check things out while there. Cool things is I'll get to see Georgia Street a few days after its completion...

I don't have any pictures, but a few of the buildings' cores are starting to go up. A couple are in the 2 story range. I'm very excited about this project. It's going to totally transform the SE quad.

What side of town?
Maping Indianapolis Neighborhoods (http://www.indystar.com/article/20111004/LOCAL18/110040386/Neighborhoods-great-obscure-find-home-new-Indy-map?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com)

Nice work ablerock!

Thanks!