My (Appalachian) grandparents heated their farmstead with coal from the 1920's to 1980 or so. I shoveled plenty of anthracite into their coal bin over the years, and helped scrub dust/smoke off the walls and ceilings after the gas conversion.

Moochie's right: don't burn it in Indy. Let someone use it for fill, or haul it down to the hills and hollers where folks are set up with proper coal-burners.

Come to think of it, it may make good landscaping stone for a rock gardens and the like. It's very hard to light, so if it's a decent distance from a house, it shouldn't be a fire hazard.. and lord knows mulch can be.

I just found a pic from someone who did exactly that. Considering how expensive garden stone can be, perhaps this is a good option. I see no reason it would do any damage to plants.. after all, it can't be worse than asphalt! Imho what this person sis is a bit over the top and impractical, but to each his own.

http://nepacrossroads.com/download/file.php?id=13387

Why are we 15.2 Trillion in debt and STILL counting.
Greedy Politicians on both sides contiune to spend and spend and spend.
As an American you can't raise your credit card debt ceiling why should the government? Live within your means its not a hard concept.
Thats why i rather just have private investors provide more of the basics instead of the government cause in the private sector you aren't using taxpayer money and its LESS likely to be abused and wasted. However thats easier said than done.

Also personally i am a conservative-Independent.
I do not like to vote straight party ticket and the only time i think ill have too is in 2012 to kick the Chicago Obama Gang out of office.
Can't stand corruption hacks from Chicago.

Wrong again. You don't even pay attention do you? The Bush tax cuts and the recession are the two greatest contributors to the national debt. The big increases in spending over the last decade were in national and homeland security. Are you suggesting those two areas be cut then?

The private sector cannot provide the "basics" (whatever the hell that is) which is why they don't. Are you seriously proposing the privatization of police and fire departments? Look no further than the healthcare system in this country to see the failures of the private market. It is a MYTH that the private sector is more efficient- privatization always results in higher costs because profit has to be made, a problem that doesn't exist in the public sector.

Last I checked, the fact that Obama had his political start in Chicago doesn't make him corrupt. He was never involved in municipal politics where the corruption resides and was never even charged with or accused of any illegal or unethical activity as a state senator.

You need to stop digging a whole and making yourself look even more ignorant.

Also Illinois jacking up the income taxes is spot on to why this Corporate Welfare is just going to hurt Illinois more and more. Chicago and Crook county can't stop shooting themselves in the foot. And in addition to that both Chicago and Illinois are broke.

Illinois prefers to not gut education in their state which is why they raised taxes instead of making children suffer.

Come to think of it, it may make good landscaping stone for a rock gardens and the like. It's very hard to light, so if it's a decent distance from a house, it shouldn't be a fire hazard.. and lord knows mulch can be.

Hard coal definitely won't light from a smoldering cigarette butt like mulch or dry grass.

California in particular hasn't proven desirable in the last decade--it didn't even gain any electoral college votes, which would have been unthinkable just 20 years ago. NYC Metro population is growing at a pace that would place it as middle-of-the-pack when compared to cities as a whole, but that actually makes it far better than most of the slow-growth, high-cost, well-educated northeast. And the rest of NY State has been stagnant for decades. Meanwhile, those annoying cities in Texas persistently grow and grow, despite having very few of what liberal ideologues would consider "high quality of life" characteristics. In fact, Texas is routinely belittled by the left for the standards of living of its working class population, yet businesses routinely locate there in order to grow.


First off, California has almost 40 million people and already struggles to provide water to its citizens- it really cannot afford to grow at a fast rate and even still it grew by 10% over the past decade, faster than Indiana.

Second, the Northeastern United States is also very crowded and dense and there is very little room for population growth, which is why there isn't much.

California and the Northeast are at or near their carrying capacities.

Texas, on the other hand has plenty of land and little geographical impediments to growth like mountains or oceans which are found in California and the NE. In addition, Dallas, Houston, Austin, and San Antonio are all heavily Democratic cities that are investing significantly in mass transit (mostly Dallas and Houston) and quality of life initiatives like performing arts centers. There has been a significant amount of urban redevelopment in those cities. Furthermore, the significant driver of Texas' population growth is Hispanic immigration- not people fleeing from other parts of the U.S. 36% of Texas' population is Hispanic, 65% of Texas' population growth over the past decade was due to Hispanics, and in 2010, HALF of all babies born in Texas were Hispanic.

Texas does have a low standard of living- it has the highest number of minimum wage jobs in the country and 1/4 of its population does not have health insurance. Texas, despite being some conservative economic success story, has struggled with MASSIVE budget deficits since the recession began on par with what California and Illinois are facing. Also, Texas' economy is boosted by being the center for the American energy industry which is due to pure geography- not every state has(had) massive oil reserves and a lengthy coastline along the Gulf of Mexico. And finally, Texas has a significant federal government presence in the state in the form of military bases- San Antonio owes most of its economy to federal largess and taxpayer dollars. This is not the case in the Northeastern United States or the Rust Belt.

agreed.
However Liberal economics have failed.
Look at the Eurozone and Greece.
they spend and spend and spend and spend.............
Until they are so far into debt nobody wants to bail them out and they collasp.
you can't spend yourself into prosperity.
I am a social moderate but a fiscal conservative.
Also most people are conservative economic that are involved with business.
Why risk money in the business world if there is no big payoff?
Also you are correct NY state has been losing 2+ congressional districts each decade since 1950.
Illinois has been losing some.
California will start losing them in 2020 already they are below the national average population per congressional district which is a STRONG indicator for losing congressional seats next census.
Southern Conservative states will contiune to grow and prosper well liberal rust belt and Californiastan like states will spend and spend and spend themselves into Greecehood.
I rather be with the conservative south and avoid everyday riots like in Greece :)

If you actually knew what you were talking about you would see that Italy and Ireland are also on the verge of default and those countries have been run by center right governments for quite awhile. Ireland in particular is one of the most de-regulated, low tax countries in the developed world and its economy is in the gutter.

Sure, southern states are growing faster than the national average but they are also becoming more and more liberal. Look at Virginia and North Carolina- those states used to be solid red but are turning bluer every year.

Every state in the nation has faced budget deficits, not just blue states, and it is due to the recession which severely curtailed tax revenues. Spending in these states did not cause their budget deficits- that would be impossible since they have to have balanced budgets. So basically are you criticizing states for spending more money when their tax revenues were much higher? THE HORROR!!!!

You can't necessarily spend yourself into prosperity (although you can lay the groundwork for a mobile and educated society by INVESTING in transportation and education) but you certainly can't cut your way to it either. The main reason the national unemployment rate has stayed so high is that state and municipal governments have shed over 500,000 jobs since December 2007.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20111228/LOCAL18/312280001/2-pedestrians-critically-injured-when-they-re-hit-by-SUV-East-82nd-Street?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

You might think these continued stories would make politicians jump to provide safe, adequate and accessible facilities for all users of the right-of-way.....but no. It won't be long before another backwards hill-dwelling congressman proposes cuts to pedestrian and bike funding in favor of bumping up road expenditures.

Anybody know what the deal is at the corner of Capitol and Michigan? There seems to be quite a bit of work going on at an existing building. Not sure if it is just exterior work or something else..........slow day sorry.

I wish we had more large district planning and development like other cities do. NoS is a good start, but I can't think of too many others.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=28350500&postcount=4

I have plans and drawings for 146 E. Washington st. Litebox. It looks fantastic, a total restoration of when the building was built, with a partial new level on top. It's now totally gutted and restoration is moving forward immediately. Expect a press release in the next few days.

But.. I can't show them to anyone... sorry. You'll see them on the news soon enough.

I have plans and drawings for 146 E. Washington st. Litebox. It looks fantastic, a total restoration of when the building was built, with a partial new level on top. It's now totally gutted and restoration is moving forward immediately. Expect a press release in the next few days.

But.. I can't show them to anyone... sorry. You'll see them on the news soon enough.

You big tease!

On a side note I saw that Agostino's Italian Cuisine at 126 N Delaware is now closed. He had some good grub. Also I don't see Miguel's Southern next door lasting all that long. His food is decent however it's a bit on the pricey side. I think the 130 N Delaware bldg is cursed.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=232720210131276&set=a.144019765667988.31681.142289985840966&type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=232720210131276&set=a.144019765667988.31681.142289985840966&type=3&theater

I didn't know Bob had posted those... Yup, that's the facade pic. I have a lot more than that, and actual interior plans and drawings, but that's all you really need. The interior will be all open space and the original wall pilasters will be restored.

It's pretty cool that he put those construction workers in there! They're all Amish kids. It's interesting, they're all about 18 years old, but they have weathered faces like they've been working in the fields all their lives. They only wear black, brown, grey and white too. no colors, not even blue jeans.

^^ Love it. Almost the entire stretch on the north side of Washington Street between Meridian and Delaware has completely changed in the past year and a half. What used to look like the crappiest two blocks downtown will now be looking very good, once the improvements happen at 146 E. Washington.

I wonder if for the Super Bowl they will be renting out those huge loft spaces in the McOuat building that have the giant windows looking out over Washington Street. It looks like the spaces have all been cleared out - and would now be perfect for some multi-millionaires to rent them out for Super Bowl week - filled up with new furniture. Renting each floor for $50,000 for the week would bring in about $350,000. Maybe they could get more. That would go a long way toward the renovation costs for the building.

I didn't know Bob had posted those... Yup, that's the facade pic. I have a lot more than that, and actual interior plans and drawings, but that's all you really need. The interior will be all open space and the original wall pilasters will be restored.

It's pretty cool that he put those construction workers in there! They're all Amish kids. It's interesting, they're all about 18 years old, but they have weathered faces like they've been working in the fields all their lives. They only wear black, brown, grey and white too. no colors, not even blue jeans.

We have had some Amish construction workers out here as well. They work on the job site and use only hand tools...the catch, they employ one person to use electric tools for them....i guess that's ok?

We have had some Amish construction workers out here as well. They work on the job site and use only hand tools...the catch, they employ one person to use electric tools for them....i guess that's ok?

Funny.. I've seen the young ones cheat a bit.. using electric saws and that.. I saw one wearing an IU sweatshirt with a red logo once looking a bit sheepish. They've asked me to make phone calls for them more than once, and they do have lists of phone numbers.. So, they can have others use telephones for them but they can't touch them? And they hire people to drive them everywhere.. I don't really understand their rules.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20111228/LOCAL18/312280001/2-pedestrians-critically-injured-when-they-re-hit-by-SUV-East-82nd-Street?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com


Every one of these horrible recent pedestrian accidents has been outside the old city on a major arterial designed and rebult in recent decades by Indy DPW: Allisonville, Michigan Rd., Keystone, 86th/82nd, Madison. This has nothing to do with hilljack legislators or congressmen.

These are not the same city arterials some folks here repeatedly characterize as "high speed" or "dangerous".

Can we finally give the "high-speed one-way dangerous streets" meme a decent burial? They really are not all that dangerous, according to the data, especially when one considers that far more pedestrians regularly use and cross them.

Could we all agree to focus on Indy DPW making township/postWW2 streets and arterials safer? (Instead of ranting about federal and state tax policy, incentives, personal politics, etc.?)

Funny.. I've seen the young ones cheat a bit.. using electric saws and that.. I saw one wearing an IU sweatshirt with a red logo once looking a bit sheepish. They've asked me to make phone calls for them more than once, and they do have lists of phone numbers.. So, they can have others use telephones for them but they can't touch them? And they hire people to drive them everywhere.. I don't really understand their rules.

Probably the drivers and power-tool users are Mennonite or Amish from a permissive order. There are many "Amish" subcultures with varying rules, and some Mennonites are easily confused with Amish.

Hooray more freeway interchanges.....
http://www.indystar.com/article/20111228/LOCAL04/312280009/Greenwood-set-get-another-65-exit?odyssey=mod|newswell|text||p

/rant

Looks like some good work there Moochie, well done!

http://www.indystar.com/article/20111228/LOCAL04/312280009/Greenwood-set-get-another-65-exit?odyssey=mod|newswell|text||p

They have been working on that third interchange for a few years now. It is supposed to be for a new East-West route through Johnson Co. which they have been planning for over 50 years now. I think their original siting for the new interchange is at Worthsville Rd and I-65.

Every one of these horrible recent pedestrian accidents has been outside the old city on a major arterial designed and rebult in recent decades by Indy DPW: Allisonville, Michigan Rd., Keystone, 86th/82nd, Madison. This has nothing to do with hilljack legislators or congressmen.

These are not the same city arterials some folks here repeatedly characterize as "high speed" or "dangerous".

Can we finally give the "high-speed one-way dangerous streets" meme a decent burial? They really are not all that dangerous, according to the data, especially when one considers that far more pedestrians regularly use and cross them.

Could we all agree to focus on Indy DPW making township/postWW2 streets and arterials safer? (Instead of ranting about federal and state tax policy, incentives, personal politics, etc.?)

I'm talking about very real issues brought up specfically by a Kentucky representative to remove TE funds and place that into bridge and street repair. TE funds are used on a variety of projects including Georgia Street and the fountain work in Fountain Square. These grants are awarded to INDOT and DPW and can have very large scale impacts for pedestrians. I think it valid to discuss national political misguidance when it directly relates to safety and better design.

Looks like some good work there Moochie, well done!

I'll pass that along to the guys who actually did the work.. I don't have much of a role there, I'm more like a cooperating neighbor who shares resources with them.

Indy'd: "I wish we had more large district planning and development like other cities do. NoS is a good start, but I can't think of too many others."

It seems most of the large, planned, multi-use developments are in the suburbs -- ie Anson - west of Zionsville; Saxony - near I-69 in Fishers; and Heartland Crossing down where Marion, Morgan and Johnson Counties all meet up.

I did hear recently about the plans to re-develop the old Central State site on W. Washington Street. Apartments, some commercial, a park and a few other types of uses are supposed to be going in there. With the potential for a BRT line to go right past there (and hopefully a light rail corridor soon after) - hopefully the densities will be allowed to be higher and we'll have a new higher intensity, mixed-use neighborhood on the near west side before too long.

I'm talking about very real issues brought up specfically by a Kentucky representative to remove TE funds and place that into bridge and street repair. TE funds are used on a variety of projects including Georgia Street and the fountain work in Fountain Square. These grants are awarded to INDOT and DPW and can have very large scale impacts for pedestrians. I think it valid to discuss national political misguidance when it directly relates to safety and better design.

TE money didn't pay for any of the disastrous roads I cited, and every last one was designed and built by DPW. Influencing DPW is the only way to make our arterials pedestrian-friendly.

Act local.

That facade restoration is stunning.

First of all, the design is beautiful, it is ornate yet urban, provoking a feeling of turn of the century Chicago. I think the design is tasteful, it is moderately ornamented yet bold.

Second, the very nature of that project makes it quite cutting edge. Facade restoration has been a cornerstone of downtown redevelopment, but facade reconstruction? I can't think of any downtown buildings where the facades were rebuilt from nothing. This marks a new step for downtown and may inspire other developers. There are dozens of downtown structures who's sexy 19th and early 20th century facades were replaced with glass in the 60's and 70's. What exciting times are ahead of us!

That part of downtown seems to be going through quite the renaissance. What was once a rather desolate corner of downtown could become a crown jewel! :cheers:

I really like the look of the new facade on 146 E Washington, but I have to admit that I have no fondness for mid-century modern, so I'm a little biased.

I do have to note that they took a lot of liberties with the original facade for them to call the new one a reproduction. The new cornice, in particular, is a far cry from what was originally on this building.

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=bfc79f2144&view=att&th=134881d39668d7bd&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=f_gwr9zbb00&zw

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/390335_232720210131276_142289985840966_530176_1479604377_n.jpg

Long time reader, but just now joined! Sorry to go off-topic, I thought the members on this forum would have a good opinion. Do you think Indianapolis could pull off an amusement park?

Indy is one of the largest cities in America without an amusement park. Yes there is Holiday World, Indiana Beach, and Kings Island, but all of those are way out of the Indy area. Our city is growing fast, and as of now most people here looking for a thrill go to Kings Island or Holiday World (IB has low attendance). I really cannot see any cons of building a park for the Indy area.

Thousands of seasonal jobs would be available and hundreds of permanent jobs would be too. Also, if the park were to be built in a more un-developed area, all kinds of businesses would be built. Hotels, gas stations, fast food, and sit-down restaurants are always common near parks. Over time more businesses would expand near the park. Because of that, more jobs would be available. With more jobs comes more people. More neighborhoods built, and than even more businesses would be needed such as offices and big-box stores.

On top of all of that, tourism is on the rise for Indianapolis. With an amusement park, tourists would need an extra day to visit the park. That means an extra night at a hotel, another days worth of food and gas, and even another day of a car-rental or (in the future) paying to use the lite-rail, assuming the park is near it.
I believe Noblesville would be an ideal location. Just a bit north of Hamilton Town Center off of I-69. It is more rural up there which means less neighbors to complain about noises of rides and increased traffic flow, but close enough to Indy and a great suburb! Opinions?

Long time reader, but just now joined! Sorry to go off-topic, I thought the members on this forum would have a good opinion. Do you think Indianapolis could pull off an amusement park?

Indy is one of the largest cities in America without an amusement park. Yes there is Holiday World, Indiana Beach, and Kings Island, but all of those are way out of the Indy area. Our city is growing fast, and as of now most people here looking for a thrill go to Kings Island or Holiday World (IB has low attendance). I really cannot see any cons of building a park for the Indy area.

Thousands of seasonal jobs would be available and hundreds of permanent jobs would be too. Also, if the park were to be built in a more un-developed area, all kinds of businesses would be built. Hotels, gas stations, fast food, and sit-down restaurants are always common near parks. Over time more businesses would expand near the park. Because of that, more jobs would be available. With more jobs comes more people. More neighborhoods built, and than even more businesses would be needed such as offices and big-box stores.

On top of all of that, tourism is on the rise for Indianapolis. With an amusement park, tourists would need an extra day to visit the park. That means an extra night at a hotel, another days worth of food and gas, and even another day of a car-rental or (in the future) paying to use the lite-rail, assuming the park is near it.
I believe Noblesville would be an ideal location. Just a bit north of Hamilton Town Center off of I-69. It is more rural up there which means less neighbors to complain about noises of rides and increased traffic flow, but close enough to Indy and a great suburb! Opinions?

A Garfield-themed amusement park was planned at what I believe is now an industrial park in Hendricks county.

More info and site pictures (http://www.negative-g.com/Entercitment/garfield1.html)

I really like the look of the new facade on 146 E Washington, but I have to admit that I have no fondness for mid-century modern, so I'm a little biased.

I do have to note that they took a lot of liberties with the original facade for them to call the new one a reproduction. The new cornice, in particular, is a far cry from what was originally on this building.

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&ik=bfc79f2144&view=att&th=134881d39668d7bd&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=f_gwr9zbb00&zw

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/390335_232720210131276_142289985840966_530176_1479604377_n.jpg

Do you have access to a photo of the original facade?

Nvm, found it.

http://images.indianahistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/dc012&CISOPTR=116&CISOBOX=1&REC=13

Indy'd: "I wish we had more large district planning and development like other cities do. NoS is a good start, but I can't think of too many others."

It seems most of the large, planned, multi-use developments are in the suburbs -- ie Anson - west of Zionsville; Saxony - near I-69 in Fishers; and Heartland Crossing down where Marion, Morgan and Johnson Counties all meet up.

I did hear recently about the plans to re-develop the old Central State site on W. Washington Street. Apartments, some commercial, a park and a few other types of uses are supposed to be going in there. With the potential for a BRT line to go right past there (and hopefully a light rail corridor soon after) - hopefully the densities will be allowed to be higher and we'll have a new higher intensity, mixed-use neighborhood on the near west side before too long.

that discussion happened a while ago and from what I remember at the time, it iwas essentially a suburban apartment style development. That site needs a lot of work to be an attractive place for serious development. Although, I did notice some earth work being done on site......

Knots Berry Farm was planning to build an amusement park in what is now White River State Park. It seems like every few years we hear about a proposal, and it fizzles. I've always guessed that we have too many high quality amusement parks nearby and not enough concentrated population to make a big one in Indy a winner.

Long time reader, but just now joined! Sorry to go off-topic, I thought the members on this forum would have a good opinion. Do you think Indianapolis could pull off an amusement park?

Indy is one of the largest cities in America without an amusement park. Yes there is Holiday World, Indiana Beach, and Kings Island, but all of those are way out of the Indy area. Our city is growing fast, and as of now most people here looking for a thrill go to Kings Island or Holiday World (IB has low attendance). I really cannot see any cons of building a park for the Indy area.

Thousands of seasonal jobs would be available and hundreds of permanent jobs would be too. Also, if the park were to be built in a more un-developed area, all kinds of businesses would be built. Hotels, gas stations, fast food, and sit-down restaurants are always common near parks. Over time more businesses would expand near the park. Because of that, more jobs would be available. With more jobs comes more people. More neighborhoods built, and than even more businesses would be needed such as offices and big-box stores.

On top of all of that, tourism is on the rise for Indianapolis. With an amusement park, tourists would need an extra day to visit the park. That means an extra night at a hotel, another days worth of food and gas, and even another day of a car-rental or (in the future) paying to use the lite-rail, assuming the park is near it.
I believe Noblesville would be an ideal location. Just a bit north of Hamilton Town Center off of I-69. It is more rural up there which means less neighbors to complain about noises of rides and increased traffic flow, but close enough to Indy and a great suburb! Opinions?

Knots Berry Farm was planning to build an amusement park in what is now White River State Park. It seems like every few years we hear about a proposal, and it fizzles. I've always guessed that we have too many high quality amusement parks nearby and not enough concentrated population to make a big one in Indy a winner.

I was thinking the same thing, kind of like an MLB team......a lot of markets in a small area. Our amusement park is the motor speedway.......hopefully it can reinvent itself to the popularity it used to have.

Nvm, found it.

http://images.indianahistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/dc012&CISOPTR=116&CISOBOX=1&REC=13

Thanks for that -- that's the one I was trying to post. I guess the link broke on mine.

Thanks for that -- that's the one I was trying to post. I guess the link broke on mine.

No problem. :)

It seems that though the reconstruction would be a diluted version, it still looks wonderful and would be a great contribution to that area. I don't know the financial feasibility, but if done to the same proportions as the original facade, it would make a full restoration possible down the road.

I don't see Indy as a great candidate for an amusement park. The local market size of Indy-class cities really isn't sufficient to support one. The physical and legacy geography of Cincinnati makes it ideal for things like locating super-regional attractions such as amusement parks or an Ikea store. By locating in the northern suburbs of Cincy, you are in the favored quarter of what is the biggest MSA in the greater region, plus are effectively in the Dayton metro as well, creating a "home market" of about 3 million people. Additionally, Cincy is easy driving from Louisville, Indy, and Columbus. And Cincinnati was traditionally the "big city" of the area, so has those legacy assets like amusement parks. I think we less see this in Indy because Indianapolis today is strongly oriented towards Chicago as the regional "big city." Whereas when I grew up in Louisville, clearly the place to go for bigger city type attraction was Cincinnati.

I don't see Indy as a great candidate for an amusement park. The local market size of Indy-class cities really isn't sufficient to support one. The physical and legacy geography of Cincinnati makes it ideal for things like locating super-regional attractions such as amusement parks or an Ikea store. By locating in the northern suburbs of Cincy, you are in the favored quarter of what is the biggest MSA in the greater region, plus are effectively in the Dayton metro as well, creating a "home market" of about 3 million people. Additionally, Cincy is easy driving from Louisville, Indy, and Columbus. And Cincinnati was traditionally the "big city" of the area, so has those legacy assets like amusement parks. I think we less see this in Indy because Indianapolis today is strongly oriented towards Chicago as the regional "big city." Whereas when I grew up in Louisville, clearly the place to go for bigger city type attraction was Cincinnati.

Maybe it's my Ohio roots showing, but Indiana southwest of Meridian and Market has always seemed pretty Cincinnati-oriented to me. Pre-Colts, pro baseball and football fans turned to Cincy, especially during the "Big Red Machine" decades when the Indians were the Reds' Triple-A farm team. Likewise with amusement parks: Kings Island was it.

For museums and shopping, though, you're right about Chicago.

Perhaps as Indy has become more educated and less blue-collar, the "aspirational" attractions of Chicago have become more popular here? In any case, I agree that there's too much regional competition for an amusement park to survive in the Indy metro.

I could see a small racing themed amusement park located at IMS and the surrounding golf course and strip malls being moderately successful. Plenty of built infrastructure already, ie; parking, hotel rooms etc. With IMS as the anchor, it'd get plenty of publicity and guaranteed paydays in parts of the year.

Sounds like a nightmare to put something like that together though. Buying and rezoning all that property.. appeasing the neighbors.. upsetting the traditionalists.. ugh.. I'd steer clear. (pun intended)

Maybe it's my Ohio roots showing, but Indiana southwest of Meridian and Market has always seemed pretty Cincinnati-oriented to me. Pre-Colts, pro baseball and football fans turned to Cincy, especially during the "Big Red Machine" decades when the Indians were the Reds' Triple-A farm team. Likewise with amusement parks: Kings Island was it.

For museums and shopping, though, you're right about Chicago.

Perhaps as Indy has become more educated and less blue-collar, the "aspirational" attractions of Chicago have become more popular here? In any case, I agree that there's too much regional competition for an amusement park to survive in the Indy metro.

Here is a link to a webpage about a failed Mooresville par (http://www.negative-g.com/Entercitment/garfield1.html)k to be built around a Garfield theme. I recall the project vaguely but did not realize it got even that far.

TE money didn't pay for any of the disastrous roads I cited, and every last one was designed and built by DPW. Influencing DPW is the only way to make our arterials pedestrian-friendly.

Act local.

I agree that influencing DPW is very important, but I'd also add influencing the local MPO who scores DPW's applications for any projects that would use federal funding. I know that occurred on the current W. 38th Street project, and I'd guess federal funding has been used on most of the major arterial projects.

I dream of a day when people can walk pretty much anywhere in this County without having a significant chance of being killed by a motorist/car. I've crossed 82nd Street going from the same apartments to the same shopping area where the two young people were killed the other day. There should really be a stoplight there as well as median refuge islands to allow the street to be safely crossed as two individual crossing segments.

I could see a small racing themed amusement park located at IMS and the surrounding golf course and strip malls being moderately successful. Plenty of built infrastructure already, ie; parking, hotel rooms etc. With IMS as the anchor, it'd get plenty of publicity and guaranteed paydays in parts of the year.

Sounds like a nightmare to put something like that together though. Buying and rezoning all that property.. appeasing the neighbors.. upsetting the traditionalists.. ugh.. I'd steer clear. (pun intended)

I think the whole Speedway Redevelopment District is about creating the space, bones, and access to make a theme district around IMS.

And I should backtrack and agree: probably the only theme park that would work in Indy is something around motorsport/racing.

I agree that influencing DPW is very important, but I'd also add influencing the local MPO who scores DPW's applications for any projects that would use federal funding. I know that occurred on the current W. 38th Street project, and I'd guess federal funding has been used on most of the major arterial projects.

I dream of a day when people can walk pretty much anywhere in this County without having a significant chance of being killed by a motorist/car. I've crossed 82nd Street going from the same apartments to the same shopping area where the two young people were killed the other day. There should really be a stoplight there as well as median refuge islands to allow the street to be safely crossed as two individual crossing segments.

Unfortunately the decision-making body for MPO is a regional council heavily loaded with suburban representatives. By the time a decision is to be made, the plans are done.

On the other hand, DPW works for the Mayor we elect. That is where we have influence.

Here is a link to a webpage about a failed Mooresville park to be built around a Garfield theme. I recall the project vaguely but did not realize it got even that far.
I have known about that project for years, the company went bankrupt and abandoned the site.

About an Indy 500 themed park, I do think during race weeks it would be very popular, but any other time it is open it would not be. Being in Speedway means it would have to be small, therefore not many attractions.

Also, good point arenn. King Island's location services all of Cinci, Northern Kentucky, and Dayton. While still attracting Louisville, Indianapolis, Columbus, and West Virginia. If one were to be built in Noblesville, obviously Indianapolis would be the main target market with the suburbs such as Carmel, Fishers, Zionsville, and even the south side ones like Greenwood and Franklin. Fort Wayne would be a great target market too because the closest park to them is Cedar Point and SF Great America (Both over two hours away). Anderson and Muncie together have a decent population, plus there Kokomo to the north, Lafayette, and even IU students in Bloomington would make the trip.

I am very active in the coaster-enthustiast community, with my "home-park" being Kings Island. Therefore I am good friends with many people living near KI. We all love the park, but it does get boring going to the same park. If the park were to promote in Cincinnati saying something along the lines of "tired of the same old thrills? (park name) is only two hours away in Indianapolis, and all of the thrills are brand new and unlike any others. ect...." Plenty of people would travel to the park at least every so many years to see whats new. People get tired of going to the same place every time.

The same applies for Chicago. They have Six Flags Great America, which is in between Chicago and Milwaukee. By advertising in the eastern/southern parts of Chicago (and of course the Indiana coast cities) for Indianapolis and having a portion of the advertisement feature the park, people would make a weekend-vacation out of it.

Indianapolis does not have a stronger market as easy as Cincinnati, but it could if they heavily advertise.

Maybe it's my Ohio roots showing, but Indiana southwest of Meridian and Market has always seemed pretty Cincinnati-oriented to me.

Duh. Meant to write "southeast" there, and to add that far SW Ind (Evansville, Vincennes) has an easier drive to St. Louis than to Cincy, Indy, or Chicago.

Hate to rain on the amusement park parade, but I think the Garfield park died for good reason: not enough potential.

Duh. Meant to write "southeast" there, and to add that far SW Ind (Evansville, Vincennes) has an easier drive to St. Louis than to Cincy, Indy, or Chicago.

Hate to rain on the amusement park parade, but I think the Garfield park died for good reason: not enough potential.

I rather prefer Cedar Point myself. I also recall Louisville had that small 6 Flags park that is now closed.

^^ I agree. Cedar Point is the best. Along with all the great coasters and other rides - you can actually spend another day or two hanging out at the Lake Erie beach and/or the great waterpark that is connected. Growing up in Ft. Wayne - that was the place to go and I still think it is the best in the Midwest.

Interesting article about teens at Circle Centre: http://www.indystar.com/article/20111229/LOCAL18/112290390/

You may have heard at about the incident this week at Mall of America. Also the flash mob violence in downtown Chicago and Philly (which appears to be much more predatory). Indy seems more like kids being kids and doing what ever kids will do when they are allowed to, but this is something to keep an eye on given national trends.

Interesting article about teens at Circle Centre: http://www.indystar.com/article/20111229/LOCAL18/112290390/

You may have heard at about the incident this week at Mall of America. Also the flash mob violence in downtown Chicago and Philly (which appears to be much more predatory). Indy seems more like kids being kids and doing what ever kids will do when they are allowed to, but this is something to keep an eye on given national trends.

My theory in this particular instance is that more kids congregate at CC Mall when they have nowhere else to go, ie; no football or basketball games or concerts etc. I live and work down here, and have seen this type of thing happen, and really have seen no evidence of organization via social media or otherwise.

My theory in this particular instance is that more kids congregate at CC Mall when they have nowhere else to go, ie; no football or basketball games or concerts etc. I live and work down here, and have seen this type of thing happen, and really have seen no evidence of organization via social media or otherwise.

I recall when I worked bldg security at 101 west Ohio in 2000. There were so many kids at the bus stops on Ohio & Capitol after they left the mall. The police were always there "Babysitting".

Interesting article about teens at Circle Centre: http://www.indystar.com/article/20111229/LOCAL18/112290390/

You may have heard at about the incident this week at Mall of America. Also the flash mob violence in downtown Chicago and Philly (which appears to be much more predatory). Indy seems more like kids being kids and doing what ever kids will do when they are allowed to, but this is something to keep an eye on given national trends.

Have you all seen video/photo images of the recent flash mob incident at the Mall of America in Minnesota and the Indystar footage of the teens leaving Circle Centre Mall from Arenn's aforementioned article? And what about the stampede at Lafayette Square a week ago for an overpriced tennis shoe?

Notice that most if not all of the participants were from one particular race?

Just saying.

^^ Aghhh Really !?! you just said that ?

Being in Speedway means it would have to be small, therefore not many attractions.


Come again? There's a vast amount of land at the disposal of Speedway and the IMS.

The infield of the IMS alone is 250+ acres, large enough to hold a Cedar-Point-sized park on its own. Parking lots around the track total 750 acres. That's over 1000 acres to play with. (Although even in this theoretical discussion the golf course probably isn't going anywhere, so the total is more like 850 acres.) This total doesn't include the hundreds of acres the town of Speedway has targeted for redevelopment south of the track, or the miles of linear land that will be captured by closing Georgetown and relocating 16th St.

If the IMS and Town of Speedway ever decided to build something grand, there's more than enough land to build any kind of park they'd like.

http://www.indianapolismotorspeedway.com/indy500/history/35357-Fun-Facts/

This is a discussion for a different forum. Race doesn't exist. It's an outdated and obsolete concept.

Unless you're remarking on local media's proclivity towards showing people with dark skin doing bad things, then we may have a relevant Indianapolis discussion. Media bias can be a development issue.


Have you all seen video/photo images of the recent flash mob incident at the Mall of America in Minnesota and the Indystar footage of the teens leaving Circle Centre Mall from Arenn's aforementioned article? And what about the stampede at Lafayette Square a week ago for an overpriced tennis shoe?

Notice that most if not all of the participants were from one particular race?

Just saying.

This is a discussion for a different forum. Race doesn't exist. It's an outdated and obsolete concept.

Unless you're remarking on local media's proclivity towards showing people with dark skin doing bad things, then we may have a relevant Indianapolis discussion. Media bias can be a development issue.

Yeah, that kind of talk goes on at City-data.com :-)

This is a discussion for a different forum. Race doesn't exist. It's an outdated and obsolete concept.

Unless you're remarking on local media's proclivity towards showing people with dark skin doing bad things, then we may have a relevant Indianapolis discussion. Media bias can be a development issue.

Race does exist, it is simply how humans adapted to various environments. The only issue is when people believe that somehow being able to absorb a certain amount of vitamin D makes you superior to someone else.

Pattyco was rather insensitive, but they do address an issue. There are children of other races who are committing crimes and causing problems (trust me, I've lived around them), but it seems to be more of an issue in the African American Community. This could be because of poverty, culture, I don't know and I don't have any authority on the topic to say so, but we can't close our eyes and pretend there aren't problems.

Besides, is this really the place for discussions on race?

Besides, is this really the place for discussions on race?

No it is not.

moochie, the reality is that race has been perhaps the biggest factor in urban dynamics in cold weather cities in the last 40 years. We can pretend like race, social justice issues, etc. don't matter in urban development, but they matter hugely. WEB Dubois noted that the problem of the 20th century was the "problem of the color line." It's still there.

Not just cold-weather cities. New Orleans, Birmingham, LA...

What about white flight and the impact of red lining on our cities? The racist north of Indianapolis is racist because of HUD policy which has created more problems than any handful of minorities acting a little crazy. I worked in financial services in Carmel and the amount of racist crap that goes on behind closed doors is appalling. None of what I saw was on the level of violating the civil rights act, but it was still ugly, untrue, and a product of racist fathers raising a generation that grew up hearing racist side comments. The minorities are not the problem the majority is the problem and always has been.

The real issue is poverty and education. Welcome to 2012. A brain is a brain and you can't pick your skin color. Get over it.

What about white flight and the impact of red lining on our cities? The racist north of Indianapolis is racist because of HUD policy which has created more problems than any handful of minorities acting a little crazy. I worked in financial services in Carmel and the amount of racist crap that goes on behind closed doors is appalling. None of what I saw was on the level of violating the civil rights act, but it was still ugly, untrue, and a product of racist fathers raising a generation that grew up hearing racist side comments. The minorities are not the problem the majority is the problem and always has been.

The real issue is poverty and education. Welcome to 2012. A brain is a brain and you can't pick your skin color. Get over it.

Can speak for myself and say this is what I was thinking of.

It's not exactly random (and horribly wrong) that issues of race are mixed with issues of (poor) education, poverty, drugs, crime, bad parenting, and abuse. Years of racism and segregation have had a significant impact in Indy. And the not-so-subtle bias of low expectations (as depicted by eddie above) continues.

Is anyone here really open to a race discussion? Race is such a sensitive topic, there is hardly room for debate or disagreement. That is the weakness of passion. One word, one mumble, and this whole thread could be locked up! Just look at this thread! One person muttered something insensitive and everyone is exploding as if it was an army invading the city! No one here (on either side) is eager to have their views or beliefs on the topic challenged, so lets stick to urban discussion, please.:)

Those who stand for nothing fall for anything.


Indeed.

Race is an issue that can neither be escaped nor discussed in this sort of forum. But we are all obliged to call out careless, insensitive, or questionable comments about race.

Is anyone here really open to a race discussion? Race is such a sensitive topic, there is hardly room for debate or disagreement. That is the weakness of passion. One word, one mumble, and this whole thread could be locked up! Just look at this thread! One person muttered something insensitive and everyone is exploding as if it was an army invading the city! No one here (on either side) is eager to have their views or beliefs on the topic challenged, so lets stick to urban discussion, please.:)

Soc, I did not read in any of the recent comments a general desire to open a discussion about race.

Rather, one person made a racist comment, and I am sure with the intention of provoking others, and that poster was appropriately called out on the carpet for it.

It is sad that you would not join in condemning mean-spirited and ugly comments posted on this message board that have nothing to do with the "urban discussion" that you request everyone stick to.

"Capital of the New Midwest"? I think Ballard owes me some royalties on that!

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120101/NEWS05/120101019/Ballard-envisions-Indianapolis-capital-new-Midwest-?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

http://www.urbanophile.com/2011/08/14/replay-the-brand-promise-of-indianapolis/

"Capital of the New Midwest"? I think Ballard owes me some royalties on that!

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120101/NEWS05/120101019/Ballard-envisions-Indianapolis-capital-new-Midwest-?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

http://www.urbanophile.com/2011/08/14/replay-the-brand-promise-of-indianapolis/

Maybe he's thinking of you for Deputy Mayor.

"Capital of the New Midwest"? I think Ballard owes me some royalties on that!

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120101/NEWS05/120101019/Ballard-envisions-Indianapolis-capital-new-Midwest-?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

http://www.urbanophile.com/2011/08/14/replay-the-brand-promise-of-indianapolis/

I thought of you as soon as I read the transcript!

"Capital of the New Midwest"? I think Ballard owes me some royalties on that!

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120101/NEWS05/120101019/Ballard-envisions-Indianapolis-capital-new-Midwest-?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

http://www.urbanophile.com/2011/08/14/replay-the-brand-promise-of-indianapolis/

Hahaha, I thought of your posts as well. It was an exciting speech from an urban point of view. I think I guard heavily against it coming true because the past has usually been a let down. It seems if he would have taken this stance and made these points to run on for re-election, he could have gained even more support from democrats.

The sad thing was hearing the Democrat president saying there main issues were taxes, crime and education...........broken record anyone? Come up with something tangible and goal based, not political rhetoric...

Hahaha, I thought of your posts as well. It was an exciting speech from an urban point of view. I think I guard heavily against it coming true because the past has usually been a let down. It seems if he would have taken this stance and made these points to run on for re-election, he could have gained even more support from democrats.

The sad thing was hearing the Democrat president saying there main issues were taxes, crime and education...........broken record anyone? Come up with something tangible and goal based, not political rhetoric...

It did read as an urbanist's speech and it leaves me optimistic.

But Ballard didn't really need votes from Democrats this time...just from Republicans and independents.

Probably next election the Mayor will need Democrats' votes if he follows through on the policy directions in his speech...which will no doubt earn him a "RINO" label and a hyperconservative/kook Republican opponent.

Well good news the Polians are out and Caldwell is next :)
you hear me New Orleans? WE WILL BE COMING TO YOUR TOWN FOR SUPER BOWL 47! NEXT YEAR IS THE REBIRTH OF THE COLTS AND ITS GLORY!

Interesting piece on Atlantic Cities, featuring arenn and NapLab's Indy neighborhood map: The Awkward Art of Neighborhood Naming
(http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/01/awkward-art-neighborhood-naming/843/).

Another interesting recap:

The Next Boom Towns In The U.S. (http://www.newgeography.com/content/002322-the-next-future-boom-towns-in-the-us)

Indianapolis: No.11

Excerpt:

What cities are best positioned to grow and prosper in the coming decade?

To determine the next boom towns in the U.S., with the help of Mark Schill at the Praxis Strategy Group, we took the 52 largest metro areas in the country (those with populations exceeding 1 million) and ranked them based on various data indicating past, present and future vitality.

We started with job growth, not only looking at performance over the past decade but also focusing on growth in the past two years, to account for the possible long-term effects of the Great Recession. That accounted for roughly one-third of the score. The other two-thirds were made up of a a broad range of demographic factors, all weighted equally. These included rates of family formation (percentage growth in children 5-17), growth in educated migration, population growth and, finally, a broad measurement of attractiveness to immigrants — as places to settle, make money and start businesses.

Man, can't believe they put Cleveland at the bottom of the list below Detroit! Ouch..

But much of their criteria is a bit suspect imho. I wonder if they crunched the data on these cities from 10 years ago to see if their predictions held weight. After all, these criteria should work on any decade right?

"We started with job growth, not only looking at performance over the past decade but also focusing on growth in the past two years, to account for the possible long-term effects of the Great Recession. That accounted for roughly one-third of the score. The other two-thirds were made up of a a broad range of demographic factors, all weighted equally. These included rates of family formation (percentage growth in children 5-17), growth in educated migration, population growth and, finally, a broad measurement of attractiveness to immigrants — as places to settle, make money and start businesses."

Another interesting recap:

The Next Boom Towns In The U.S. (http://www.newgeography.com/content/002322-the-next-future-boom-towns-in-the-us)

Indianapolis: No.11

Excerpt:

What cities are best positioned to grow and prosper in the coming decade?

To determine the next boom towns in the U.S., with the help of Mark Schill at the Praxis Strategy Group, we took the 52 largest metro areas in the country (those with populations exceeding 1 million) and ranked them based on various data indicating past, present and future vitality.

We started with job growth, not only looking at performance over the past decade but also focusing on growth in the past two years, to account for the possible long-term effects of the Great Recession. That accounted for roughly one-third of the score. The other two-thirds were made up of a a broad range of demographic factors, all weighted equally. These included rates of family formation (percentage growth in children 5-17), growth in educated migration, population growth and, finally, a broad measurement of attractiveness to immigrants — as places to settle, make money and start businesses.

This is a discussion for a different forum. Race doesn't exist. It's an outdated and obsolete concept.

Unless you're remarking on local media's proclivity towards showing people with dark skin doing bad things, then we may have a relevant Indianapolis discussion. Media bias can be a development issue.

Haha, you're not allowed to discuss race and crime, but you are allowed to discuss media bias towards a specific race?

U FUNNY

Police and social service agencies will work together to get Downtown Indianapolis' homeless population off the streets during Super Bowl activities but there will be no forced relocation, authorities said.

Police have already targeted an unofficial homeless camp near the City-County Building, several blocks from Lucas Oil Stadium, which WRTV-TV reported has become a focus for complaints and is an eyesore for tourists.

The 3 cities I ever lived in - Indy, Omaha, and Chicago all have a homeless community. I personally don't see why they feel the need to clean up the place.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120102/NEWS11/201020346/City-seeks-relocate-homeless-during-Super-Bowl?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|s

"Capital of the New Midwest"? I think Ballard owes me some royalties on that!

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120101/NEWS05/120101019/Ballard-envisions-Indianapolis-capital-new-Midwest-?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

http://www.urbanophile.com/2011/08/14/replay-the-brand-promise-of-indianapolis/

And you said that you have talked to these people without influencing anything....

hardy har

;-)

Another interesting recap:

The Next Boom Towns In The U.S. (http://www.newgeography.com/content/002322-the-next-future-boom-towns-in-the-us)

Indianapolis: No.11

Excerpt:

What cities are best positioned to grow and prosper in the coming decade?

To determine the next boom towns in the U.S., with the help of Mark Schill at the Praxis Strategy Group, we took the 52 largest metro areas in the country (those with populations exceeding 1 million) and ranked them based on various data indicating past, present and future vitality.

We started with job growth, not only looking at performance over the past decade but also focusing on growth in the past two years, to account for the possible long-term effects of the Great Recession. That accounted for roughly one-third of the score. The other two-thirds were made up of a a broad range of demographic factors, all weighted equally. These included rates of family formation (percentage growth in children 5-17), growth in educated migration, population growth and, finally, a broad measurement of attractiveness to immigrants — as places to settle, make money and start businesses.

I always find it interesting how Columbus, OH is always next Indianapolis in ranking or within 2 to 4 spots on numerous lists. Other than two cities similar in size on the prairie, are both cities really that close all the time when you get down to the nitty gritty?

The 3 cities I ever lived in - Indy, Omaha, and Chicago all have a homeless community. I personally don't see why they feel the need to clean up the place.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120102/NEWS11/201020346/City-seeks-relocate-homeless-during-Super-Bowl?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|s

Isn't this what they do in third world countries during olympics and world cups?
Hide away the slums from tourists?

Oh, thats right, we are practically a third world country... :ohno:

I always find it interesting how Columbus, OH is always next Indianapolis in ranking or within 2 to 4 spots on numerous lists. Other than two cities similar in size on the prairie, are both cities really that close all the time when you get down to the nitty gritty?

The cities are not quite twins, but their history and built form is very similar.

Both are mid-state "planned" state capitals, to which state government moved early in the 19th century from a smaller city in the southern part of the state (Corydon, IN and Chillicothe, OH).

Both have law schools and government centers.

Both grew up in the streetcar era and have substantial tracts of "streetcar suburban" homes from 1900-1930. (Compare Bexley, Upper Arlington, and the OSU campus area in Columbus with Meridian Kessler, Butler Tarkington, and Irvington in Indianapolis).

Both have big state university campuses, with med schools and hospitals, leading to an "eds and meds" establishment.

Both lack significant geographical barriers; each has a moderate-sized river running through downtown.

Both are at the junction of significant north-south and east-west interstate highways, and both are located within a day's drive of a major portion of the US population. This leads to the two competing for distribution and logistics hubs. (The former DHL US air hub was at Lockbourne Airpark, a former air force base southwest of Columbus. DHL couldn't compete with UPS and FedEx and shut down several years ago.)

Perhaps I "see" too much similarity between the two cities, as I was born in one and have spent my adult life in the other. But I don't think I'm imagining it.

Just a year ago, Indianapolis' first member-owned grocery store (http://www.facebook.com/PoguesRunGrocer#!/photo.php?fbid=648950381282&set=o.65840657088&type=3&theater) opened at 2828 East 10th Street. Pogue's Run Grocer features local, natural, organic and bulk foods for healthier eating. There is also a full deli with the best lunch special in town...Boar's Head All-Natural meats or vegetarian sandwiches with the best soups you've ever had.

This Saturday is the one-year anniversary celebration. Non-members get the regular "member discount" all day Saturday! If you've been curious, this is the time to check it out.

11 new big, hi-res renderings liberated from CityWay website over in the artist formerly known as North of South Thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=87229354#post87229354):

http://cityway.com/Sitefinity/WebsiteTemplates/CityWay1/App_Themes/Theme1/Images/common/sub_renderings/cw_color_rendering_01.jpg

^^
Anyone else think (in a theoretical world of imagining those lines were all used for mass transit of course) that the little triangle between the train tracks would make a kick-ass location for a cool transit hub? :)

^^^

would be totally kick-ass

This should be a pretty cool event - and it will be telecast live nationally on NBC from the Murat Theater the night before the Super Bowl. Nice exposure for one of downtown's beautiful theaters.

http://www.ibj.com/city-to-host-nfl-awards-event-on-eve-of-super-bowl/PARAMS/article/31726

The area is too small. I actually thought the City Way location itself would have been great for a major train station serving commuter and inter-city rail. Union Station, attractive as it is, isn't really fit to be a 21st century terminal.

Indianapolis' Children's museum ranks in the top 20 of all museums in the nation for annual attendance. Its great to see that it continues to grow and do well. From the IBJ:


The Children’s Museum of Indianapolis set a new attendance record last year by attracting 1.27 million visitors.

The number is 9.4 percent higher than the previous record of 1.16 million visitors set in 2010, the museum said Tuesday afternoon.

“We are extremely appreciative of the support we receive from our members and visitors during these challenging economic times,” museum President and CEO Jeffrey H. Patchen said in a prepared statement.

Museum membership also reached a high of more than 34,000 in 2011 compared with 32,000 the previous year.

Museum store sales set a record, too, climbing 5 percent in 2010, to nearly $2.4 million.

In other news Right to Work is to much for Demon Rats to gulp down. Greedy Unions will do everything possible to keep the funds flowing and the demon rats out of the statehouse to protect their Greedy and Money supplying ways.

^^ Way to keep it non-political DI .....

Good grief....

With regard to the recent post on this thread about the homeless in Indianapolis, quoted below:

"Police and social service agencies will work together to get Downtown Indianapolis' homeless population off the streets during Super Bowl activities but there will be no forced relocation, authorities said.

Police have already targeted an unofficial homeless camp near the City-County Building, several blocks from Lucas Oil Stadium, which WRTV-TV reported has become a focus for complaints and is an eyesore for tourists."


The information below was sent out from the Indianapolis Coalition for Homelesness Invervention and Prevention (website: http://www.chipindy.org ) :


Super Bowl and Homelessness in Indianapolis

Recent media stories have carried a headline and lead stating that Indianapolis is “moving” the homeless for the Super Bowl. It is difficult to understand how that lead came about when the story itself makes clear that Indianapolis has no intention to displace the homeless. In fact, the plan is exactly the opposite.

More than two years ago the 2012 Super Bowl Host Committee contacted the IMPD and the Coalition for Homelessness Intervention and Prevention to learn what was being done in the city to address homelessness, and to ensure that the planning for the Super Bowl would not interfere with ongoing efforts to provide people with needed assistance. Neither the host committee nor the city wanted to do anything that would displace individuals who were experiencing homelessness or that would otherwise take them away from the social services and outreach teams that were engaging them and helping with their return to self-sufficiency. That commitment still stands.

More than 1,500 people are homeless in Indianapolis each night. Nearly all are in services and are sheltered or staying in transitional programs. Fewer than 200 are chronically homeless, and fewer still stay outside. Those who do stay outside in winter are among the hardest to serve, oftentimes suffering from mental illness and chronic addiction. For these individuals, ensuring that they are not displaced, even for a day, may be the difference between life and death. IMPD officers work with eight different social service outreach teams and medical and mental health providers to engage the chronically homeless and unsheltered in our community. This is something that occurs every night, not just during special events. Indeed, as a result of their collaboration and hard work, in the last two years dozens of men and women who have been on the street, some for a dozen years and longer, are now receiving mental health services or in recovery, housed, and even employed.

Certainly, with a major event comes increased police presence. For posers and scammers and people engaged in criminal activity – and there will be plenty of each – increased police presence will mean increased enforcement of our criminal laws. However, for the homeless in Indianapolis, increased police presence means increased opportunities for access to social services and assistance. Some will not come inside. They will be engaged where they are during the Super Bowl, just as they are every night of the year.

It is only natural to be skeptical, especially as game day draws nearer and pressure comes from some to sweep the streets; to hide the homeless. After all, other cities have done just that. Two years ago the host committee and the city of Indianapolis made a commitment to follow a different course.

^^ Way to keep it non-political DI .....

lol na the problem is they are not just stalling RTW but also everything else thats suppost to be getting done at the statehouse.

The area is too small. I actually thought the City Way location itself would have been great for a major train station serving commuter and inter-city rail. Union Station, attractive as it is, isn't really fit to be a 21st century terminal.

Oh yes, definitely too small for most anything. And parking would be beyond an issue. But if those weren't concerns, I think it's a neat little spot to daydream about. :)

For anyone interested in attending and or testifying, the Indiana House Ways and Means committee will be taking up HB 1073, the Public Transit bill, tomorrow morning. The hearing is in Room 404 of the Statehouse, at 9:30 a.m.

The committee has the time scheduled for public testimony. It's pretty easy to give your opinion, if you're so inclined. Just show up a few minutes early, and fill out a slip that says your name and whether you are speaking for or against the bill. As one local attorney says, it's just that easy.

In other news Right to Work is to much for Demon Rats to gulp down. Greedy Unions will do everything possible to keep the funds flowing and the demon rats out of the statehouse to protect their Greedy and Money supplying ways.

You are a completely worthless troll.

"Right to Work" is being pushed by the Chamber of Commerce and other big business lobbyist groups that spend heavily on politicians but it the unions that are "greedy and money supplying."

Unions don't oppose "right to work" because they are greedy rather because right-to-work laws create a free-rider problem, in which non-union employees (who are bound by the terms of the union contract even though they are not members of the union) benefit from collective bargaining without paying union dues.

Of course, if you weren't so comically ignorant, you would know this.

Please don't feed the trolls Hoosier.. Don't respond and they'll go away.

Please don't feed the trolls Hoosier.. Don't respond and they'll go away.

:rock: Bravo

Probably not the best use of this space.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120105/BUSINESS/201050341/Police-museum-takes-shape?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|p

Probably not the best use of this space.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120105/BUSINESS/201050341/Police-museum-takes-shape?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|p

I think a museum on Georgia is a fine use. No reason they can't have retail in it as well and/or residential up top. Also, it has a lot of floor space that could be rented out as a ballroom for events. Lots of museums do that.

I think a museum on Georgia is a fine use. No reason they can't have retail in it as well and/or residential up top. Also, it has a lot of floor space that could be rented out as a ballroom for events. Lots of museums do that.

Agreed. And I'd love to see residential on the upper floors.

My only worry is if that kind of museum is even sustainable. It's a high-traffic area during events, so that may help. But I can't help think about the ill-fated Super Hero museum that existed just a few blocks away. I don't think it lasted 12 months.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. A museum would be alright, but like ablerock mentioned this is probably a small audience market.........

Wow hi-rise security sure is lax. Check out this adventure from November...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5080/5877956351_79a960a1cb_b.jpg

Thread is here....

http://www.nopromiseofsafety.com/?cat=14

Wow hi-rise security sure is lax. Check out this adventure from November...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5080/5877956351_79a960a1cb_b.jpg

Thread is here....

http://www.nopromiseofsafety.com/?cat=14

We already had our arguments about this one!

Probably not the best use of this space.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120105/BUSINESS/201050341/Police-museum-takes-shape?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|p

I thought this was going to be something cool back in the day, the way it was initially advertised, with the, "a new city is coming." Learning that this is a police museum though, that sentence seems like a line out of Orwell's '84. It just seems odd to place an ode to the Police, and social control on a street that's been re-purposed for celebration, especially with all the police department's recent drama. I just don't know if you want your 12 million dollar tourist trap to funnel people into a building that says hey, Look at these amazingly gruesome and overwhelming crimes we've overcome here in Indy. I'm speaking in generalities, but that's my initial assessment of that.

I'd rather see a museum on corn or farming. It would probably be more intellectually stimulating at least.

I disagree. If this were a museum about prisons in Indy, (which was proposed on the MSA site about a decade ago) your argument would hold water. You talk about "social control" but what other entity exercises more social control than the military? We have a glut of war memorials here in Indy, Monument Circle for example, and few of us object to their message. There will be war heroes honored on Georgia along with government officials etc. All who exercised "social control".

I've met a lot of bad cops in my day.. who hasn't? But by and large, a cops job is to keep order and protect the citizenry. They have a tough, nearly impossible job sometimes, and truth be told, when the shit hits the fan, they're impotent, nearly powerless against the masses. The courts and our legislators exercise more social control than some guy standing around with a gun on his hip ever could.

I just have a hard time seeing the police as an entity as an enemy. a few individuals yes, or course, but most of them are hard working, blue collar guys trying to do good and keep us all safe. The idea of a police museum to honor them is a good one imho.



I thought this was going to be something cool back in the day, the way it was initially advertised, with the, "a new city is coming." Learning that this is a police museum though, that sentence seems like a line out of Orwell's '84. It just seems odd to place an ode to the Police, and social control on a street that's been re-purposed for celebration, especially with all the police department's recent drama. I just don't know if you want your 12 million dollar tourist trap to funnel people into a building that says hey, Look at these amazingly gruesome and overwhelming crimes we've overcome here in Indy. I'm speaking in generalities, but that's my initial assessment of that.

We already had our arguments about this one!

^^ Sorry must have missed it. After the prank he pulled climbing my bldg a few year back you would think office security would be more on the ball. I used to work hi-rise security Indy and Chicago. I didn't have the luxury they do nowadays with so much CCTV. Plus I got off my ass and did patrols. The people we have now in this place can't keep their eyes off of their smart phones.

The people we have now in this place can't keep their eyes off of their smart phones.

One word: pr0n

Trailside update 01/05/2011
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ILXACDksE_M/TwYidHSNesI/AAAAAAAAFLM/f6hHVJTA8zw/s800/photo%2525204.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-pbfZW2MDdfY/TwYicshhNjI/AAAAAAAAFLM/iIEjMzftpKQ/s800/photo%2525203.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Vpb2IpVhKJc/TwYibzI6_xI/AAAAAAAAFLM/c3jLou-iNDo/s800/photo%2525201.JPG

^^

great pics, eddie! my two pipedreams: the city finally gives up control of the center township trustees bldg for apt use/retail use and MEGA pipedream that one day we can tunnel underneath 65/70 at the current mass ave terminus by black market. well, i guess i'd love to see the coca-cola bldgs renovated and adjacent property built up, etc, etc. just imaging the amount of people that would fill the streets with a combined coke redev, center township bldg redev mixed with trailside...would be great!

Speaking of Mass Ave, what is going on across the street from The Metro bar? Is there going to be an IndyGo shelter on the Cultural Trail there? I noticed they had dug a big hole and over the holidays, it was filled back in and what looked like some anchor bolts were sticking out of the ground.

I feel like I should know this, but I am drawing a blank...

Speaking of Mass Ave, what is going on across the street from The Metro bar? Is there going to be an IndyGo shelter on the Cultural Trail there? I noticed they had dug a big hole and over the holidays, it was filled back in and what looked like some anchor bolts were sticking out of the ground.

I feel like I should know this, but I am drawing a blank...

I can see that spot from my office and have been watching the construction as well.

I was thinking it might be a location for one of Donna Sink's poetry bus shelters but I don't believe that's the case.

If she notices this, she could confirm.

Trailside update 01/05/2011
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ILXACDksE_M/TwYidHSNesI/AAAAAAAAFLM/f6hHVJTA8zw/s800/photo%2525204.JPG


It's amazing to compare the sluggish time this project has taken getting this high to the speed of CityWay's growth.

One word: pr0n

D'oh! :ohno:

It's amazing to compare the sluggish time this project has taken getting this high to the speed of CityWay's growth.

The City and Lilly are investors in CityWay and there are likely some aggressive performance targets in the development agreement. And Buckingham makes more money if they get it done more quickly.

Trailside is a not-for-profit tax-credit project with a tight budget.

Two totally different owners, funding streams, and target markets make for two totally different project budgets and timelines.

http://www.emporis.com/building/the-tower-at-the-stutz-indianapolis-in-usa
Do you guys think this proposal is a good idea and if so has it already been cleared to go?

http://www.emporis.com/building/the-tower-at-the-stutz-indianapolis-in-usa
Do you guys think this proposal is a good idea and if so has it already been cleared to go?

I think this came out in mid 2008 as a proposed tower to be built. Obviously when the economy imploded this along with nearly everything else was put on hold or died on the vine. So my impression is that this will not be built anytime soon. Although this building was proposed, it never went through any of the approval processes to move forward. Penn Centre was proposed, designed and approved to go but that one is either on long term hold or died due to the economy and limited bank lending for large projects.

http://www.emporis.com/building/the-tower-at-the-stutz-indianapolis-in-usa
Do you guys think this proposal is a good idea and if so has it already been cleared to go?

That may still be a twinkle in Turner Woodard's eye. It never really got past the conceptual stage. I wouldn't be surprised if he somehow pulls it off in the next 10 years, but I wouldn't hold my breath either.

Don't know if you've seen these images as well: http://www.thestutz.com/Tower.html

Remember this proposal???

http://www.artsjournal.com/aestheticgrounds/IndyCircle.jpg

Paved, but Still Alive

THERE are said to be at least 105 million and maybe as many as 2 billion parking spaces in the United States. A third of them are in parking lots ...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/08/arts/design/taking-parking-lots-seriously-as-public-spaces.html?hp

with 10 interesting photos
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2012/01/08/arts/design/01082012_PARKING.html?ref=design

Unsure if access is free for non-subscribers.

Paved, but Still Alive

THERE are said to be at least 105 million and maybe as many as 2 billion parking spaces in the United States. A third of them are in parking lots ...

That's a pretty wide-range estimate.

A comparison of parking spaces to registered autos would be pretty important to know.

Speaking of Mass Ave, what is going on across the street from The Metro bar? Is there going to be an IndyGo shelter on the Cultural Trail there? I noticed they had dug a big hole and over the holidays, it was filled back in and what looked like some anchor bolts were sticking out of the ground.

I feel like I should know this, but I am drawing a blank...

Yes cailes, that is one of the Cultural Trail bus shelter locations. I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say, but basically we have to get it to a temporary level of finish for the Super Bowl then go back and actually do the installation in February-ish. Sadly only one of seven is done so far - Fountain Square, with poetry by Richard Pflum - but I'm excited about getting them all done come spring!

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t36/dcesar716/761fa2d6.jpg

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t36/dcesar716/3fc88681.jpg

3 new signs in as many years? Bank of Montreal http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t36/dcesar716/e0f0171f.jpg

I am curious what is the city planning on doing with the old Payton Wells Chevrolet on Meridian Stree just north of Downtown?
Its been vacant for atleast 2 years and when i came down to Indy during Thanksgiving it was still abandoned and its on a major corridor in Indy.
Any plans for this site?

3 new signs in as many years? Bank of Montreal http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t36/dcesar716/e0f0171f.jpg

I enjoyed the fact that it said "BM" for several days. Also, the JW Marriott only said "Riot" for about a week a few years ago. I have pix somewhere of a mob of questionable looking fellows with that sign in the background... It really was an interesting message to have on our skyline. I can't seem to find it at the moment.

Also, I remember altering a sign on high on 10th and Shortridge that said "Public Auction" to "Pubic Action" when I was a wayward youth. I was pretty proud that it stayed that way for about a week. And I remember that the old Essex Hotel near the Capitol building when I was a little boy for several months broke and said "Sex Hotel" in neon.

I may be getting older, but I've taken a formal vow to remain immature enough to enjoy these things for the rest of my life.

I may be getting older, but I've taken a formal vow to remain immature enough to enjoy these things for the rest of my life.

As have I, moochie, as have I.

I may be getting older, but I've taken a formal vow to remain immature enough to enjoy these things for the rest of my life.

As have I, moochie, as have I.

The old Bob & Tom radio tagline: "Bob & Tom in the morning...because everyone else is just too damn serious..."

Some siliness is good, especially when there are young kids in your life.

I am curious what is the city planning on doing with the old Payton Wells Chevrolet on Meridian Stree just north of Downtown?
Its been vacant for atleast 2 years and when i came down to Indy during Thanksgiving it was still abandoned and its on a major corridor in Indy.
Any plans for this site?

City doesn't own it, so can't do anything with it. It is made much worse by the vacant Fox 59 and Karstadt Reed Cleaners buildings (adjacent south on Meridan and Illinois respectively).

The occasional price of strong property rights is blight, as properties like these get tied up in bankruptcy and foreclosure for long periods, and/or as owners hold out for their price.

The Star emailed me this week asking me to respond to a written Q&A. They published it this morning:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120108/OPINION03/201080327

PS: I actually wasn't in London recently. Too bad.....

Remember this proposal???

http://www.artsjournal.com/aestheticgrounds/IndyCircle.jpg


Lol after Super Bowl 46 do you think office space in Downtown Indy will be used up enough to the point that its time for a developer to come out with a proposal to build another Skyscraper? Maybe even taller than the Chase Tower if were dreamin Right.
As Mitch Daniels said he bought a Super Bowl Ticket and will be spending the Super Bowl with corporate Decision makers that could land thousands and thousands of jobs in Indianapolis and massive business investments because the Super Bowl is the perfect showcase for the city.
One past proposal that died was the Indianapolis World Trade Center.

The Star emailed me this week asking me to respond to a written Q&A. They published it this morning:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120108/OPINION03/201080327

PS: I actually wasn't in London recently. Too bad.....

Very nice piece, thoughtful commentary, and good PR.

Someone in the CCB should be hiring you, Aaron.

Here's something I found interesting. My mom got me an Indianapolis Starbucks cup for Christmas. Since she lives near Louisville, I inquired how she got it. She said she picked it up at the Starbucks inside Kroger in New Albany. This location is two miles from downtown Louisville and they are stocking Indianapolis cups. I thought that was curios

Here's something I found interesting. My mom got me an Indianapolis Starbucks cup for Christmas. Since she lives near Louisville, I inquired how she got it. She said she picked it up at the Starbucks inside Kroger in New Albany. This location is two miles from downtown Louisville and they are stocking Indianapolis cups. I thought that was curios


Probably because of the Louisville Bridge problems with I-64 Sherman Minton Bridge being shut down still.
I-65 is hell to say it lightly around Louisville.

Good press Aaron. I read it yesterday. Good to see people lookking to you for answers. I agree, someone downtown should give you a full time job....

Nice seeing you Friday night Chris! ;-) The night was quiet a surprise. First Friday in January is usually very light.

Nice seeing you Friday night Chris! ;-) The night was quiet a surprise. First Friday in January is usually very light.

Good to see you and the little guy! (Never understimate the East Side community development "Mafia", or the drawing power of soup from the Pogue's Run Grocer deli. :lol: )

The Super Bowl Legacy publicity push has started. Channel 13 was on East 10th Saturday morning for the first anniversary celebration at Pogue's Run (http://www.wthr.com/story/16470662/east-side-grocer-celebrates-first-anniversary).

Indy Airport:

Has anyone seen what the airport is doing to let you know the super bowl was coming? I remember seeing the big 10 championship banner above the ticket area back around Nov 26th. So do they plan to put a 150 foot banner saying welcome to super bowl XLVI with 20 foot tall letters? Also what other things do we think they will do in the terminal and concourses to let you know it is here? I remember one of the IBJ reporters went to Dallas last year and he said you had no idea the super bowl was in dallas. They did virtually nothing to their terminal.

Don't know what they might be doing out at the airport - but I'm sure they'll have something set up. Indy's terminal works very well for presenting info to arriving guests as the main gates all bring you into the central terminal area - so they just need to hang their big signs and decorations there for everyone to see.

On that same note -- I'm very interested to begin seeing the other big changes start happening downtown. I'm guessing there will be some mega banners installed on the sides of buildings and much more being set up along Georgia Street as well as S. Meridian and the other corridors running south into the Wholesale District.

Anyone have any insight into what types of short term rentals might be happening with some of the large spaces available downtown? in particular, the Borders space and the former Nordstrom space along S. Meridian and Georgia Street? They should start turning the Hampton Inn downtown into the Budweiser Hotel pretty soon. That'll be cool to see. I'd say we've probably got about another 8 - 10 days before we start seeing the serious set-up work beginning. I believe the first street closings will begin around January 17th or 18th. The ESPN booth at Georgia and Capitol should start going up soon -- and I sure hope to start seeing more improvements in the near future at Pan Am Plaza.

I was in Ft. Lauderdale a couple of years ago the week before Super Bowl week when the Colts were playing the Saints. I was there about ten days before the SB - and just a few days after the Conference championship games - and they already had huge Peyton Manning and Drew Breese posters (15 stories tall or so) on the sides of some of the major hotels. They must have had them made and installed within a couple of days after the final team pairing was set. I suppose it may be similar here as they won't know which teams will be playing until Jan. 22nd.

Speaking of big signs and marketing ..... I hope the folks from Louisville don't try to do their guerilla marketing again to promote their city during the big event that we are hosting -- like they tried to do a few years ago (unsuccessfully) when we were hosting the Final Four. I know there were a few blog commenters who didn't think there was anything wrong with it then and kind of chided Indy for coming down too roughly with our code enforcement on them -- but I was sure glad they got shut down - and I think it definitely would be very tacky of them to try the same thing once again.

Indy Airport:

Has anyone seen what the airport is doing to let you know the super bowl was coming? I remember seeing the big 10 championship banner above the ticket area back around Nov 26th. So do they plan to put a 150 foot banner saying welcome to super bowl XLVI with 20 foot tall letters? Also what other things do we think they will do in the terminal and concourses to let you know it is here? I remember one of the IBJ reporters went to Dallas last year and he said you had no idea the super bowl was in dallas. They did virtually nothing to their terminal.

As of this morning, there is one big banner above the main bank of escalators by the entry to the civic plaza. I'll try to remember to take a picture of it on Thursday when I fly home. If the NFL combine is any indication, more branding should be coming. My favorite piece of flare for the combine are the signs on the floor at the bottom of every jet bridge welcoming passengers to Indianapolis and the combine.

Anyone have any insight into what types of short term rentals might be happening with some of the large spaces available downtown? in particular, the Borders space and the former Nordstrom space along S. Meridian and Georgia Street? They should start turning the Hampton Inn downtown into the Budweiser Hotel pretty soon. That'll be cool to see. I'd say we've probably got about another 8 - 10 days before we start seeing the serious set-up work beginning. I believe the first street closings will begin around January 17th or 18th. The ESPN booth at Georgia and Capitol should start going up soon -- and I sure hope to start seeing more improvements in the near future at Pan Am Plaza.


IDADA (Indianapolis Downtown Artists and Dealers Association) has taken over the old state museum building temporarily and done some renovations for their art pavilion exhibit. Opening is this weekend and runs through the Super Bowl. It'll be exciting to finally see that spaced used again, even if it's just temporary. Maybe getting it cleaned up and people inside it again will spur some ideas from developers for a long-term use for it.

http://www.idadaartpavilion.com/

I was at the airport yesterday. There is a big Super Bowl banner in the main hall that is sponsored by Bud Light, and decals wrapped around poles in the baggage claim area, sponsored by Pepsi. There is a long translucent decal (perhaps 150 feet) over the office windows on the ground floor of the ground transportation building that says "welcome to the Super Bowl." I'm sure there will be more as the game approaches.

By Tom Harton
Owners of Broad Ripple's Brugge Brasserie want to bring a new restaurant concept to the Massachusetts Avenue district downtown, where they also plan to relocate the craft brewery that supplies beer to Brugge.

First, partners in the new venture need to win rezoning for two buildings just south of the intersection of Massachusetts and Park avenues, one of which they have already leased.

The partners recently leased the 9,325-square-foot building at the northwest corner of North Street and Park Avenue for the brewery, which it plans to move from Terre Haute. From the early 1950s until last March, the building housed The Tway Co., which sells industrial wire, rope and slings. The five-year lease includes options to extend the lease and an option to buy the building.

One of the partners in Brugge also intends to buy the building immediately to the north of the would-be brewery. That 3,600-square-foot building, at 608 N. Park, would house a 100-seat restaurant. The building, which dates to the 1800s, was formerly occupied by McDaniel & Co., which sells piping products.

Charlie Midgley said he intends to make an offer on the McDaniel property this week. He's a partner in Brugge but doesn't know if he'll be an investor in REV, short for Rocket Epicurian Ventures LLC, the entity that will own the downtown venture. If he succeeds in buying the building, he'll lease it to REV, which is owned by Ted Miller, Eli Schloss and Abraham Benrubi, all of whom are partners in Brugge.

Miller is working with local chef Greg Hardesty to develop a menu and new line of beers for the unnamed restaurant, which Miller said would have a wide range of prices and menu items. He described the menu as contemporary American and "an exploration of food and beer." Hardesty \also would be an investor in the restaurant.

Miller, whose been traveling to Terre Haute on a regular basis to run the brewery that supplies Brugge, said the goal of moving the brewery to Indianapolis kicked off the search for local real estate. The idea of opening another restaurant came second. "When we saw that site available, we thought, 'If we're going into a more high-rent district we have to incorporate the restaurant concept.'"

Taking advantage of the trendy Mass Ave location presents some challenges for the partners, who have just started the process of lining up the support of neighbors who live in proximity to the buildings.

REV is in the process of rezoning both properties from an industrial classification to a central business district commercial classification. It has also requested three variances, including one that would reduce the number of off-street parking spaces the brewery and restaurant must provide.

The investors propose providing 11 spaces in a lot at the west end of the brewery building, instead of the 44 spaces that would typically be required. Miller said the group is negotiating to secure more off-street parking in the immediate vicinity.

Because the project falls within the Chatham Arch Massachusetts Avenue historic district, the rezoning and variances will be heard by the Indianapolis Historic Preservation Commission. The requests are scheduled to be heard at IHPC's Jan. 25 meeting. The rezoning portion of the request must also be approved by the Metropolitan Development Commission and the City-County Council.

Meg Purnsely, an architectural reviewer for IHPC, said there isn't yet any organized opposition to the plan, but she's heard from individuals who have expressed concern about parking, congestion and an outdoor seating area for the restaurant that would be adjacent to residences.

"We really want to be sensitive to neighbors' concerns," said Miller. "We're going to be neighbors and we want them to be customers." He said limiting the hours of the restaurant and an outdoor seating area is among the steps the partners are prepared to take to be sensitive to the concerns of neighbors.

Outreach efforts have been complicated by the timing of the proposal, Miller said. The Chatham Arch Neighborhood Association didn't meet in December because of the holidays, for example. And the IHPC meeting where the case will be heard is being moved up one week to avoid Super Bowl conflicts.

If all goes as planned, the partners would like to have the brewery and restaurant open this spring.

Brugge owners eye downtown buildings for brewery, restaurant
http://www.ibj.com/brugge-owners-eye-downtown-buildings-for-brewery-restaurant/PARAMS/article/31858

I understand how some of the neighbor's concerns would need to be worked out -- but, I would love to see that kind of brewery and restaurant happen in that location. Hopefully the other three corners of that intersection will also be able to be developed in the not too distant future with some great upper floor residential and ground floor retail.

Artsgarden connector:

How is the Artsgarden connector going? I haven't seen anything about it since mid November.

Artsgarden connector:

How is the Artsgarden connector going? I haven't seen anything about it since mid November.

Looked as if it was pretty well along the last time I drove up under it, a week or two ago.

^^ Yes - they still have at least one lane of Illinois closed for the construction equipment that is parked there - but the connector looks almost finished. I think they need to finish putting the last of the limestone panels on the southernmost edge of the structure - but all of the glass is up and I could see the new doorways in place inside where the walkway connects to the Hyatt / PNC. I would think it will probably be just another week or two before it is open to the public.

Also --- I walked down to Pan Am Plaza. There were workers working on the bricks and cracked concrete. There are "x's" all over the place marking where things need to be fixed. I doubt if it will look completely fixed when they are done -- but it'll probably look a whole lot better.

On W. Maryland Street - in front of the convention center - I saw the first of the new Super Bowl XLVI light pole banners. They look pretty good. I like the text style of the "XLVI" and the banners each are fairly colorful - although the colors are kind of in subdued shades. Pretty nice overall.

Brugge owners eye downtown buildings for brewery, restaurant
http://www.ibj.com/brugge-owners-eye-downtown-buildings-for-brewery-restaurant/PARAMS/article/31858

Quote from IBJ article: "Meg Purnsely, an architectural reviewer for IHPC, said there isn't yet any organized opposition to the plan, but she's heard from individuals who have expressed concern about parking, congestion and an outdoor seating area for the restaurant that would be adjacent to residences."

There are already half a dozen or more bars and restaurants within a block of this location. It's odd for residents who chose to live in this type of neighborhood would offer "concern" about another food and drink establishment. Maybe this one is just a touch too close to the loft condos along Park for a few tenants. Seems silly.

The other three corners at this intersection are desolate. This may spark a little more interest and initiative to transform the 2 blocks north of Michigan.

Glad to see they're putting up pre-fab, giant "tents" on the parking lot north of Lucas Oil Stadium (and south of the tracks). That definitely improves the view from the south as the tents should block much of the view of the beautiful cement wall next to the tracks and hopefully at least part of that two block long aluminum wall that is the south side of the convention center. It should be a fun three weeks watching the downtown continue to change in advance of XLVI.

[QUOTE=JeffG;87422251]Quote from IBJ article: "Meg Purnsely, an architectural reviewer for IHPC, said there isn't yet any organized opposition to the plan, but she's heard from individuals who have expressed concern about parking, congestion and an outdoor seating area for the restaurant that would be adjacent to residences."
QUOTE]



C'mon, you can't expect to live in the literal heart of town and not expect to deal with some crowds. That's a good problem to have these days. I understand Mass Ave is, like the utopian urban vision in Indianapolis, but not everything is going to be peaches and creme all the time. Me, personally, i like the hustle and bustle, It makes things seem more lived in.

And a Random Question, What ever happened to Merill Street Tower Proposal ? It Fell off the radar about the same time as the Le Meridian. Does anybody think a project along those lines will resurface in a few years if City Way rents out its units as well as the Cosmo did?

With the 46 murals that went up this past year, it would have been nice to see something go up on the side of the convention center. My wife is a local artist and EVERY TIME we are down there, she mentions it.

With the 46 murals that went up this past year, it would have been nice to see something go up on the side of the convention center. My wife is a local artist and EVERY TIME we are down there, she mentions it.

Perhaps the space is reserved for Coors Light so they can create a 3-D mural that looks like The Silver Bullet Express running down the track?

Or maybe the urban guerrillas from Louisville will use it for a laser-light show during the Faith Hill segment of the Big Game intro. :lol:

This might interest Aaron and others. The meters on the Alabama Street frontage of the 251 East Ohio building have been bagged perpetually for at least a couple of months. The old meters have been removed, and the new numbered "signposts" and electronic payment machine are in place, but I can't recall the last time I saw the spots open to the public. As I'm sure most of you know, 251 (a/k/a "Two Market Square Center" or "not the Gold Building, the other one") is a private office building but the Marion County Prosecutor's Office is based there in leased space. As best I can tell, the bagged spots are used for easy and "free" parking for police officers who have business in the building.

I recall a stink about the excessive bagging of meters a few years ago. I think it was late in the Peterson administration or early in the Ballard administration. Regardless, things had improved dramatically for a few years until I noticed this issue. If my math is correct (6 spots * $20 per day *300 days, which excludes Sundays and holidays), then this is costing the city approximately $30,000 per year, all for some minor convenience that results in the spots being empty most of the time. I would think that reimbursing officers for meter fees, or better yet, allowing them free short-term parking in the multitude of city-owned lots around the CCB and 251, would be much better.

I think both the Merrill Street Tower and Le Meridien are for all intents and purposes dead. Those were proposed just before the economy melted down. Hopefully, someday they may become viable again.

Bagging is $20/day per spot to ACS, so rock on!

You all might find this interesting:

http://urbanplacesandspaces.blogspot.com/2012/01/new-high-quality-urban-format-walgreens.html

Other cities seem to manage to get much better urban design out of chain pharmacies than Indy does.

^^ The Walgreens at 16th and Meridian has the mini grocery aisles. I'm pretty sure they even had sushi last time I walked through - which was this past Sunday evening.

^^ The Walgreens at 16th and Meridian has the mini grocery aisles. I'm pretty sure they even had sushi last time I walked through - which was this past Sunday evening.

Yeah, it's really nice now! They just renovated a couple of months ago.

As we all know, Indy is still very suburban drive in when it comes to design. Politicians feel the main concerns are parking and keeping costs down. Maybe with increasing residential projects, we can focus on design and land use........maybe

For a step in the right direction (away from focusing so much on the "suburban drive in" style mentioned above) word is that things are moving along toward downtown possibly getting several zip-car like, car-sharing locations in the near future. Hopefully we'll know more by Spring.

From the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel -- from their community columnist section on their Opinion Page:

"Indy Advanced While Milwaukee Stood Still"

It talks about some of the differences between the two cities -- in particular the government consolidation of Marion County that occurred in the late 60's - which didn't occur in Milwaukee.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/137068658.html

From the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel -- from their community columnist section on their Opinion Page:

"Indy Advanced While Milwaukee Stood Still"

It talks about some of the differences between the two cities -- in particular the government consolidation of Marion County that occurred in the late 60's - which didn't occur in Milwaukee.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/opinion/137068658.html

I love Milwaukee. My wife's from WI, so I've had the pleasure of visiting it several times in the last couple of years. It's like Detroit meets London, but much smaller of course. :)

For the things that are important to me, as a designer, I can tell you Milwaukee is still bitch-slapping us when it comes to the quality of their design experience.

For whatever reason, local establishments there get that experience and design matter. And the city seemingly wants to be urban. And new developments look like they've been designed by actual architects. And their new Erie Street Plaza, while an obvious rip-off of The Highline, shows that they want progressive-looking designs even if there are points deducted for originality. New establishments and projects here such as The Libertine, La Revolucion, Black Market, White Dog, CityWay, etc give me hope that the taste-level in Indy is indeed rising, but we have a bit longer to go to be as sophisticated as "lowly" Milwaukee, design-wise, on a larger scale.

That said, Milwaukee does seem to have a tangible depressed feeling, whereas Indy continues to exude an optimistic spirit. And I feel good about the future of Indy. :)

Yeah, it's really nice now! They just renovated a couple of months ago.

You can now see into the store through the windows, like a grocery, and unlike CVS across the street.

You can now see into the store through the windows, like a grocery, and unlike CVS across the street.

CVS also just renovated, not as nice as WG though.

...
For the things that are important to me, as a designer, I can tell you Milwaukee is still bitch-slapping us when it comes to the quality of their design experience.

For whatever reason, local establishments there get that experience and design matter. ....
This print magazine is made in Milwaukee and it is advanced.
http://www.cogmag.com/

Milwaukee suffers from a few problems:

- It's north of Chicago and thus a little inconvenient to get to
- It's too close to Chicago. As one of my friends likes to say, Milwaukee is like Mercury - too close to the Sun and it gets burned up. While Indy is like Earth - the perfect distance away.
- Severe segregation
- The state capital and major state university are on the other side of the state in Madison, which is almost a city in its own right and has captured the title of the "cool" city in Wisconsin.

Having said that, I like Milwaukee and enjoy making trips there even if I haven't got the time to explore as much as I'd like.

Milwaukee suffers from a few problems:

- It's north of Chicago and thus a little inconvenient to get to
- It's too close to Chicago. As one of my friends likes to say, Milwaukee is like Mercury - too close to the Sun and it gets burned up. While Indy is like Earth - the perfect distance away.
- Severe segregation
- The state capital and major state university are on the other side of the state in Madison, which is almost a city in its own right and has captured the title of the "cool" city in Wisconsin.

Having said that, I like Milwaukee and enjoy making trips there even if I haven't got the time to explore as much as I'd like.

Plus it's north of Chicago and almost as freakin' cold as MSP. That kind of climate has limited appeal.

CVS also just renovated, not as nice as WG though.

Limited redo. Added self/express checkout to front end. Will soon be putting up newer "historic" window graphics.

Plus it's north of Chicago and almost as freakin' cold as MSP. That kind of climate has limited appeal.

Yeah last time I was there it was almost unbearably cold. And that was just a couple of weeks ago. Feb must be brutal.

Milwaukee is very nice in the summertime and they still have a nice stock of older buildings that makes the city interesting.

did anyone else notice on city beat (wthr) that the east side of college to the west side of winthrop will close down from feb 1st (6pm) to feb 6th (6am) for the super bowl? sounds interesting but i have no additional info...thoughts??

did anyone else notice on city beat (wthr) that the east side of college to the west side of winthrop will close down from feb 1st (6pm) to feb 6th (6am) for the super bowl? sounds interesting but i have no additional info...thoughts??

You mean the Broad Ripple Ave closure? I live a couple blocks away and I'm cautiously excited: not at all worried about the closing of the street, a little worried about drunk people parking on my block and vomiting on the lawn when they come to pick up their car. George CLinton is performing!

My neighborhood website says the City had info about the street closures on the Super Fest website - http://www.broadripplesuperfest.com/home - but that that info has since been pulled.

Oh yes, definitely too small for most anything. And parking would be beyond an issue. But if those weren't concerns, I think it's a neat little spot to daydream about. :)

It seems like I've never heard a serious discussion or seen a study relating to Union Station's potential as a true multi-modal hub. Over ten years ago when I was an intern at the MPO, I argued for using light DMU's on existing existing rail right-of-way to connect the region with a regional rail system. I argued that Union Station was ideally located and configured to accommodate that traffic. In addition, argued that no other location could bring together regional rail, Greyhound, IndyGo Buses, Amtrak and future Midwest high speed rail. At that the time, The MPO was in the middle of the Directions study and was leaning towards an AGT system recommendation which seemed totally unrealistic to me. In any case, 10 years later, IndyConnect has finally taken my advice :) and recommended the use of light DMU technology on existing rail right-of-way with Union Station as its main hub.

I drew the following diagram way back then to illustrate how I thought Union Station could accommodate several different modes of transit.

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/1/131768628_79d030b8ee.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/64262017@N00/131768628/)
Transit Hub (http://www.flickr.com/photos/64262017@N00/131768628/) by hostetlermatt (http://www.flickr.com/people/64262017@N00/), on Flickr

Ablerock, after your comment I decided to do an updated diagram of Union Station as Indy's multi-modal transit hub. Obviously, this isn't completely theshed out, I just wanted to ge a conversation going.

The southern facade of the train shed was never meant to be visible from South Street. At one time, large warehouses concealed the ugly southern facade. The following diagram shows an addition on the south side of the train shed that would engage South Street appropriately and connect into the historic train shed and head house to the north. This particular design assumes rerouting of CSX around the belt track and the removal of the two associated freight tracks. In addition, the Union Station Parking garage would probably need to be demolished as well. In any case, don't judge it too harshly, Its not finished.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7016/6682946029_aaa9d619b6_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/64262017@N00/6682946029/)
IndyGo Station (http://www.flickr.com/photos/64262017@N00/6682946029/) by hostetlermatt (http://www.flickr.com/people/64262017@N00/), on Flickr

Looks like we may be getting closer to some Mass Ave-ness....

http://www.urbantimesonline.com/2012/01/this-just-in-a-taxing-strategy-to-help-redevelop-fire-station-property/

Looks like we may be getting closer to some Mass Ave-ness....

http://www.urbantimesonline.com/2012/01/this-just-in-a-taxing-strategy-to-help-redevelop-fire-station-property/

I went to the meeting last night. The majority of the new TIF district (or expansion rather) has an interesting shape. It's very linear and spoke-like along multiple streets but not grabbing much of the areas between the streets. I should've grabbed a photo of it. It goes up along Mass Ave, but also continues even further along New York and up Meridian. The 16 Tech area is a big blob, of course.

Mark Fisher had an interesting comment that "hopefully this should get everyone excited and can see what areas the city is targeting next." I'm excited to see why they've captured so much of New York and Meridian and VERY excited to see the Coca-Cola plant captured and targeted. Fisher said repeatedly that "we've got this great asset and 11 acres that aren't performing as they should."

Another takeaway was a major focus on building up the livability of downtown and Marion County to attract a much higher level of residents.

Fisher said over 120,000 people work in Marion County but they live elsewhere and their income taxes follow right behind. The City/Develop Indy's challenge is to reverse that trend and get more people living in Marion County. That's always good to hear.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/11/realestate/commercial/near-eastside-section-of-indianapolis-benefits-from-super-bowl-bid.html

^^ Nice article. With all of the Super Bowl news that is currently out there --I think a separate folder should be created in the Midwest Development thread so that we have a place to put all of the information about Indy's Super Bowl related projects, events, parties, photos, etc. I'd do it myself but I'm not sure how to start a new thread. If anyone else thinks this is a good idea -- please go ahead and do it. It will be a helpful way to remember this event in the future. Thanks.

I went to the meeting last night. The majority of the new TIF district (or expansion rather) has an interesting shape. It's very linear and spoke-like along multiple streets but not grabbing much of the areas between the streets. I should've grabbed a photo of it. It goes up along Mass Ave, but also continues even further along New York and up Meridian. The 16 Tech area is a big blob, of course.

Mark Fisher had an interesting comment that "hopefully this should get everyone excited and can see what areas the city is targeting next." I'm excited to see why they've captured so much of New York and Meridian and VERY excited to see the Coca-Cola plant captured and targeted. Fisher said repeatedly that "we've got this great asset and 11 acres that aren't performing as they should."

Another takeaway was a major focus on building up the livability of downtown and Marion County to attract a much higher level of residents.

Fisher said over 120,000 people work in Marion County but they live elsewhere and their income taxes follow right behind. The City/Develop Indy's challenge is to reverse that trend and get more people living in Marion County. That's always good to hear.

There should be a change to the PARKING POLICY being implicated in that article. There was a lot of talk about parking garages when most of the land use in that area is already *sigh* surface parking lots. The market is so screwed up that people think when all the street spaces are taken, that the more expensive (and I would argue more reflective of the market) surface lots are deemed unavailable. So what people are saying is that there isnt a parking problem but a CHEAP parking problem. Same story every time.

A proper solution that doesnt involve planting more parking garages on the land in that area would be great.

My neighborhood website says the City had info about the street closures on the Super Fest website - http://www.broadripplesuperfest.com/home - but that that info has since been pulled.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Donna - Agreed that it can be painful having everyone parking right on top of your home (I used to live right there on Winthrop for five years), but it will be interesting to see so many people out walking...and George Clinton - agree, sounds like fun!

Aaron has just wrapped up a GREAT series on the Louisville bridges project. Highly advise anyone with a few minutes to read up
http://www.urbanophile.com/2012/01/12/indianas-bridge-deal-boondoggle-part-4-a-better-plan/

the Union Station Parking garage would probably need to be demolished

I don't see a reason the garage couldn't be altered so that trains could run underneath it. That garage really helps retail in the area, I'd hate to see it go.

Agreed. There are plenty of places to hack and slash to make the train track level acceptable to train passage if it needed to be.

*deleted*

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/11/realestate/commercial/near-eastside-section-of-indianapolis-benefits-from-super-bowl-bid.html

Wow. Having its food coop mentioned in the NYT almost makes the east side seem progressive.

And wonder of wonders, the Times didn't mention crime at all in this story. Guess they don't read The Star :lol:

Must've missed this paragraph:

But away from the spotlights, the biggest beneficiary has been the Near Eastside, a 44-square-block area a mile east of downtown. With high rates of crime and poverty and a foreclosure rate that led the nation in 2004, the neighborhood had trouble even attracting a grocery store to serve its 40,000 residents. Fortune smiled on the area when Mark Miles, the board chairman of the Super Bowl Host Committee, decided the neighborhood would become part of the 2008 bid, after Indianapolis lost out the previous year to Dallas.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/11/realestate/commercial/near-eastside-section-of-indianapolis-benefits-from-super-bowl-bid.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1326398560-XiWp34l2+MDC8h5K+QswKQ

Would there be a chance of seeing what is being proposed for the TIF on Mass Ave?

Hey, does anyone know what happened to the southern eagle statue on the old city hall?

Must've missed this paragraph:

But away from the spotlights, the biggest beneficiary has been the Near Eastside, a 44-square-block area a mile east of downtown. With high rates of crime and poverty and a foreclosure rate that led the nation in 2004, the neighborhood had trouble even attracting a grocery store to serve its 40,000 residents. Fortune smiled on the area when Mark Miles, the board chairman of the Super Bowl Host Committee, decided the neighborhood would become part of the 2008 bid, after Indianapolis lost out the previous year to Dallas.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/11/realestate/commercial/near-eastside-section-of-indianapolis-benefits-from-super-bowl-bid.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1326398560-XiWp34l2+MDC8h5K+QswKQ

Okay, busted. But that's pretty mild.

Hey, does anyone know what happened to the southern eagle statue on the old city hall?

i think i saw on the historic indianapolis FB page that there was an accident while putting up signage for the TURF/IDADA exhibit and it is being fixed!

The lift operator for the sign printing company accidentally knocked it over.

How bout that Pepsi coleseum renovation! I'm excited. That's a great historic venue and I'm glad that it's getting an upgrade to keep it going hopefully for another 70+ years.

hey guys i am curious on the west side of I-465 at the Crawfordsville Road Exit and I-74 i noticed they are doing some construction are they planning on adding some onramps so if your on Crawfordsville Road you don't have to backtrack onto the I-74 exit.

Recently, ordinances were passed so that Delaware from McCarty and Maryland will become two-way, as will Central Ave. between Fall Creek Parkway, N. Dr. and Fairfield Ave.

Recently, ordinances were passed so that Delaware from McCarty and Maryland will become two-way, as will Central Ave. between Fall Creek Parkway, N. Dr. and Fairfield Ave.

nice thats good for traffic flexibility

Recently, ordinances were passed so that Delaware from McCarty and Maryland will become two-way, as will Central Ave. between Fall Creek Parkway, N. Dr. and Fairfield Ave.

I wish Delaware would become a 2 way again through Fall Creek Place. Traffic is dangerously fast through there! a 2-way could also benefit the commercial at 25th and delaware.

hey guys i am curious on the west side of I-475 at the Crawfordsville Road Exit and I-74 i noticed they are doing some construction are they planning on adding some onramps so if your on Crawfordsville Road you don't have to backtrack onto the I-74 exit.

Assuming you meant 465, here is the plan from INDOT:

http://www.speedwayindiana.com/wp-content/themes/speedway/images/renders/I74_I465%20interchange.jpg

It is sickening the entire 465 project on the west side. The money used to toass at this could have been a benefit to the state, instead, we piss it off.

Wow. Having its food coop mentioned in the NYT almost makes the east side seem progressive.

And wonder of wonders, the Times didn't mention crime at all in this story. Guess they don't read The Star :lol:

I went to the "State of Real Estate" presentation by Cassidy & Turley yesterday at Butler. They had an opening video on the circle asking people about certain real estate terms. They asked what a "distressed property" was. The response, "just go out to the east side", and the entire room laughed as if it were a joke. I almost puked.

I went to the "State of Real Estate" presentation by Cassidy & Turley yesterday at Butler. They had an opening video on the circle asking people about certain real estate terms. They asked what a "distressed property" was. The response, "just go out to the east side", and the entire room laughed as if it were a joke. I almost puked.

*shrug*

My favorite T-shirt has this printed on the front:

46201
RESPECT IT.

A cast of thousands have been doing their best for years to give people good reasons...and I'm a newbie as a resident (about 6 years now).

Once again... College needs to be two way between Virginia and mass ave!

HB1073 - Public Mass Transit needs action.
http://www.urbanindy.com/2012/01/13/hb1073-call-to-action/

Call up committee members and voice your support for moving the bill out of committee and one step closer to passage

Recently, ordinances were passed so that Delaware from McCarty and Maryland will become two-way, as will Central Ave. between Fall Creek Parkway, N. Dr. and Fairfield Ave.

Always nice to see 1 ways being turned to two ways. ANYTIME I am on Central, it seems like the 1 way is overkill for what it does. Over capacity. It should be interesting to note how it will work after this. I can see why they wouldn't change it south of Fall Creek. Lots of cars. not that I think it shouldn't be, but you know my stance on this topic ;-)

Thanks for the news

Always nice to see 1 ways being turned to two ways. ANYTIME I am on Central, it seems like the 1 way is overkill for what it does. Over capacity. It should be interesting to note how it will work after this. I can see why they wouldn't change it south of Fall Creek. Lots of cars. not that I think it shouldn't be, but you know my stance on this topic ;-)

Thanks for the news

Fall Creek to 16th shouldn't be too much of a problem. Too wide and too fast right now.

South to 10th, the neighborhood relies on street parking. Even though the pavement is 4 lanes wide, only two are used, and they're pretty busy at morning rush. Not sure if pavement is wide enough to reconfigure as 2 narrow (8') parking lanes and three 9' travel lanes. That's 43 feet, which works if it's currently 11' lanes, but not if it's 10' lanes. I'd set it up so that there would be 2 travel lanes south and 1 north, the opposite of College.

Once again... College needs to be two way between Virginia and mass ave!

Two way from Virginia to Washington, for sure and maybe to Ohio. North of Ohio at NY, Mich, and along CT to Mass/St. Clair it's problematic.

It is sickening the entire 465 project on the west side. The money used to toass at this could have been a benefit to the state, instead, we piss it off.

And soon they will be wasting more money on the south side at the 465/65 interchange. Who knows how many millions are going to thrown away to rebuild it that is just as bad but just in a different way.

In other news, Representative Espich said today that he has not seen enough support from fellow lawmakers to continue pushing HB1073, the mass transit bill, at the committe level.

I emailed everyone on the committe today to urge them to support the bill and urge any readers here to do the same.

In other news, Representative Espich said today that he has not seen enough support from fellow lawmakers to continue pushing HB1073, the mass transit bill, at the committe level.

I emailed everyone on the committe today to urge them to support the bill and urge any readers here to do the same.

We REALLY need a Home Rule state constitutional amendment for "first-class cities" in Indiana...of which there is one.

Tired of Ruralpublicans serving as a super-council for Indy.

We REALLY need a Home Rule state constitutional amendment for "first-class cities" in Indiana...of which there is one.

Tired of Ruralpublicans serving as a super-council for Indy.

CDC: I'm not familiar with the phrase "Home Rule" as you've used it. Please explain.

CDC: I'm not familiar with the phrase "Home Rule" as you've used it. Please explain.

Home rule is a legal doctrine in effect in may states under which municipalities may exercise any function so long as it is not expressly prohibited by the state or federal constitution. Generally, this doctrine is adopted into the state constitution. Indiana has legislatively enacted this doctrine (it is not in the state constitution), and it provides limited home rule authority to municipalities. Indiana municipalities may exercise any power the General Assembly is legislatively capable of delegating to them, even if such power has not been expressly delegated, provided it is not expressly prohibited by statute or the state constitution.

Therefore, the legislature has retained the authority to limit or revoke local powers. Also, if the state legislature passes a law stating a specific manner in which a local power is to be exercised, then municipalities must comply with it.

With respect to local income taxes (which are imposed at the county level), the General Assembly has established specific rules regulating the rates, allocation, and permitted uses of such taxes. Indiana law already allows counties by ordinance to allocate a portion of the COIT (County Option Income Tax) to a public transportation corporation. However, this does not provide a stable dedicated source of funding (as the allocation can be changed or revoked when the next fiscal ordinance is passed). Also, most counties have maxed out their COIT and do not have additional funds to allocate to public transportation.

The proposed bill would allow cities or counties to allocate a portion of their distributive share of local income taxes to a public transportation corporation (this is just a clarification and expansion of existing authority). More importantly, the bill would allow the creation of regional and metropolitan transportation authorities through a public vote, and it would permit counties in which voters have approved such transportation authorities to enact a supplemental income tax that would be dedicated to the public transportation authority. It would also create bonding authority for any approved transportation authority; however, public transportation corporations in Indiana already possess the power to issue bonds and impose a property tax levy (this is subject to approval by the relevant local legislative body).

Home rule is a legal doctrine in effect in may states under which municipalities may exercise any function so long as it is not expressly prohibited by the state or federal constitution. Generally, this doctrine is adopted into the state constitution. Indiana has legislatively enacted this doctrine (it is not in the state constitution), and it provides limited home rule authority to municipalities. Indiana municipalities may exercise any power the General Assembly is legislatively capable of delegating to them, even if such power has not been expressly delegated, provided it is not expressly prohibited by statute or the state constitution.

Therefore, the legislature has retained the authority to limit or revoke local powers. Also, if the state legislature passes a law stating a specific manner in which a local power is to be exercised, then municipalities must comply with it.

With respect to local income taxes (which are imposed at the county level), the General Assembly has established specific rules regulating the rates, allocation, and permitted uses of such taxes. Indiana law already allows counties by ordinance to allocate a portion of the COIT (County Option Income Tax) to a public transportation corporation. However, this does not provide a stable dedicated source of funding (as the allocation can be changed or revoked when the next fiscal ordinance is passed). Also, most counties have maxed out their COIT and do not have additional funds to allocate to public transportation.

The proposed bill would allow cities or counties to allocate a portion of their distributive share of local income taxes to a public transportation corporation (this is just a clarification and expansion of existing authority). More importantly, the bill would allow the creation of regional and metropolitan transportation authorities through a public vote and permit counties in which voters have approved such transportation authorities to enact a supplemental income tax that would be dedicated to the public transportation authority.

An excellent and dispassionate explanation. I would add some advocacy to amplify my prevous post.

Indiana law makes Indianapolis the state's only "first-class" city. (Cities and towns are classified by size, structure, and powers in state law.) There are many seemingly-minor provisions that apply to Indianapolis specifically; one now-repealed provision governed combination of police forces and mandated that the mayor would cede control of police to the county sheriff. Others retain the ridiculous number of independent elected offices (we need township boards, trustees, an elected coroner, recorder, treasurer, and auditor?).

This leads to the farce of a rural Republican committee chair (from a town of 300) singlehandedly derailing Indy Connect for a year because the mayor and other proponents didn't kneel before his power sufficiently last year. This really grinds my gears.

A home-rule charter would largely revoke the power of the General Assembly to act as Indy's super city council. It would revoke the power of petty-tyrant committee chairs (of whom there have been many over the years) over Indianapolis. This seems only fair, as voters here do not elect or empower them.

But we do absorb the local municipal costs of "their" stay here in our fair city: vast tracts of state-owned land are off the tax rolls, and legislators consume our public goods as "free riders" just like suburbanites who commute to downtown. As Aaron Renn has pointed out, Indy is a net donor to state government. Yet some legislators treat the city as an errant wild dog instead of the goose that produces their golden eggs.

^^ What's especially frustrating is that the usual proponents of "small government" from rural areas are more than willing to exercise this bizarre overreach of power into an area they have nothing to do with.

If they really believe in small government, they need to get out of the way and let the people of Marion County have the transit referendum. Otherwise, they're basically small-government hypocrites. If we want to pay for this, it's up to us to decide.

I'm so thankful we have two upstanding Republican mayors pushing this thing through right now. I'm optimistic it will actually happen. If it were two Democrats trying to convince the rural representatives, it would be a totally different story.

We REALLY need a Home Rule state constitutional amendment for "first-class cities" in Indiana...of which there is one.


It seems impossible. How on earth would they vote for something that takes power away from them?

Thanks, good explanations. I now understand HOME RULE to mean stripping the state legislature of the power to approve or deny county level taxation. Very absurd that the General Assembly of Indiana would have to approve a Marion County taxation. Certainly I do not think legislators from Indianapolis would have any business voting on how Chicago-land Lake County or very rural Randolph County wants to tax and spend at the county level.

Very poor government structure. Massive flaw in the state constitution.

^^ What's especially frustrating is that the usual proponents of "small government" from rural areas are more than willing to exercise this bizarre overreach of power into an area they have nothing to do with.

If they really believe in small government, they need to get out of the way and let the people of Marion County have the transit referendum. Otherwise, they're basically small-government hypocrites. If we want to pay for this, it's up to us to decide.

I'm so thankful we have two upstanding Republican mayors pushing this thing through right now. I'm optimistic it will actually happen. If it were two Democrats trying to convince the rural representatives, it would be a totally different story.

Also what helps is Mitch Daniels is on board with the idea to hold a referendum.

Also what helps is Mitch Daniels is on board with the idea to hold a referendum.

I hadn't heard that. Do you have a link with a quote supporting that? Just curious, not doubting your word. :)

I hadn't heard that. Do you have a link with a quote supporting that? Just curious, not doubting your word. :)

he has said it during state of the state and on the news its up to marion county to decide.

Mitch's support of transit is tepid at best. I'm sure in his heart he opposes it, but doesn't want to actively oppose it given the strong support from local leadership and the fact that it won't cost the state any money.

From HPI, 1/16/12 Monday
DELAWARE SEEKS TO JOIN MASS TRANSIT DISTRICT BILL:
Mass transit advocates expect Delaware County to be added to a bill authorizing a referendum to raise local income taxes for a Metropolitan Transit District for Marion County and surrounding counties (Slabaugh, Muncie Star Press). State legislation that would upgrade mass transit in Central Indiana is slowly building bipartisan support, .... The referendum is targeted for November in Marion and Hamilton counties, and if approved, .... The bill doesn't yet specifically list Delaware County as being eligible to join the transit district, but the Anderson-Muncie Public Transportation Coalition thinks that will happen. "We are a member of CIRTA (Central Indiana Regional Transportation Authority)," noted coalition coordinator Roger Hollands, a retired professor of political science from Ball State University. "We definitely should have the opportunity (to join)," said coalition member Marta Moody, director of the Muncie-Delaware County Metropolitan Plan Commission. "We (Delaware County) should have the opportunity to vote, even though I don't know how it would turn out. I have my oubts." The bill identifies Boone, Hamilton, Hancock, Hendricks, Johnson, Madison, Marion, Morgan and Shelby as being eligible for a referendum in which voters would be asked to approve an additional economic development income tax rate of not more than 0.2 percent to fund the district.

Its sad that Bloomington and Muncie are just far enough away that Morgan and Delaware cant be part of the initial effort.

Here's a link to a story from the Star that gives an early overview of some of the parties and large events that will be going on in advance of the Super Bowl:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120113/NEWS07/201130320/Victory-Field-Super-Bowl-2012-party-will-like-nothing-we-ve-ever-seen?odyssey=obinsite

MEGA COOL STUFF:

You can see the video on Wishtv.com....... Here is the artical from the web.

Super light display going up downtown

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) - A super light display is taking shape downtown.

The interactive show will transform Georgia Street for visitors and the home crowd during Super Bowl XLVI festivities. You'll find it in the Super Bowl Village. The light display is just the latest addition to be added to Georgia Street and Super Bowl Village. When the project is all complete, more than 150 moving lights will put on a show.

"To see this is really something," said Barbara Roberts, Indianapolis, said of the lights, shining and moving Monday night.

People stopped and gazed; some even took pictures at the lights along Georgia Street.

"We think it's cool," said Mychael Gordon, Indianapolis.

Dodd Technologies, a Pendleton company, was hired to install the lights in Super Bowl Village.

"It will be very interactive; it will be a whole new downtown," said Andy Meggenhofen, chief lighting director and producer with Dodd.

He said his crew is responsible for transforming Georgia Street and Super Bowl Village with the light show.

"We're doing a lot with the host committee. A lot of the structures - and we'll have lights over all of the buildings down here for the next two weeks," he said.

Monday on Georgia Street, crews were testing out the lights. Not only will they move up and around on the buildings, they will also be programmed to do a lot more.

"They'll change colors, put shapes up. They will be synchronized with a pyro show ever night. They'll be interactive with the stages, with the band with music going on as well," Meggenhofen said.

"It's beautiful. I'm mean, it's really an improvement of what it was," said Roberts, who brought her grandchildren to see the display.

One of them, William Gordon, was amazed at what the lights show could do.

"They go around on buildings, and it's very pretty," he said.

But the local company wasn’t chosen just because it’s local.

"We do this all over the world," Meggenhofen said.

Crews with Dodd Technologies will be back downtown Tuesday. They plan to install more lights on the top of Pan Am Plaza.

MEGA COOL STUFF:

You can see the video on Wishtv.com....... Here is the artical from the web.

Super light display going up downtown

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) - A super light display is taking shape downtown.

The interactive show will transform Georgia Street for visitors and the home crowd during Super Bowl XLVI festivities. You'll find it in the Super Bowl Village. The light display is just the latest addition to be added to Georgia Street and Super Bowl Village. When the project is all complete, more than 150 moving lights will put on a show.

"To see this is really something," said Barbara Roberts, Indianapolis, said of the lights, shining and moving Monday night.

People stopped and gazed; some even took pictures at the lights along Georgia Street.

"We think it's cool," said Mychael Gordon, Indianapolis.

Dodd Technologies, a Pendleton company, was hired to install the lights in Super Bowl Village.

"It will be very interactive; it will be a whole new downtown," said Andy Meggenhofen, chief lighting director and producer with Dodd.

He said his crew is responsible for transforming Georgia Street and Super Bowl Village with the light show.

"We're doing a lot with the host committee. A lot of the structures - and we'll have lights over all of the buildings down here for the next two weeks," he said.

Monday on Georgia Street, crews were testing out the lights. Not only will they move up and around on the buildings, they will also be programmed to do a lot more.

"They'll change colors, put shapes up. They will be synchronized with a pyro show ever night. They'll be interactive with the stages, with the band with music going on as well," Meggenhofen said.

"It's beautiful. I'm mean, it's really an improvement of what it was," said Roberts, who brought her grandchildren to see the display.

One of them, William Gordon, was amazed at what the lights show could do.

"They go around on buildings, and it's very pretty," he said.

But the local company wasn’t chosen just because it’s local.

"We do this all over the world," Meggenhofen said.

Crews with Dodd Technologies will be back downtown Tuesday. They plan to install more lights on the top of Pan Am Plaza.

Too bad it isn't permanent. Could be a draw for other events/conventions/night-time parades, running races, & Pacer & Colts night time games. Lighting could stimulate evening businesses and bar scene, too. People never seem to tire of the Las Vegas lights.

Georgia Street Lights.

I think they are permanent and will remain. It is part of the whole package of the Georgia street redo. I remember reading about special lighting banners and such in a PDF doc a long time ago. If you looked at the poles when they constructed them I noticed small holes at the top that were open on each of the supports. I wasn't sure what those holes were for. Well now we know. The holes allowed for electrical and connectivity to the main support structures there. It would be strange to take them off and leave those holes open again. Now if there are lights connected to other structures (buildings etc..) then I would suspect those would go.

Georgia Street Lights.

I think they are permanent and will remain. It is part of the whole package of the Georgia street redo. I remember reading about special lighting banners and such in a PDF doc a long time ago. If you looked at the poles when they constructed them I noticed small holes at the top that were open on each of the supports. I wasn't sure what those holes were for. Well now we know. The holes allowed for electrical and connectivity to the main support structures there. It would be strange to take them off and leave those holes open again. Now if there are lights connected to other structures (buildings etc..) then I would suspect those would go.

Dunno if they're permanent, but they're now running blue data cables between them and they look temporary and a bit odd. Hopefully they'll be covered with something.

Hopefully they'll be covered with something.

snow?

So, some businesses have been announced to fill the south end of Circle Centre during the SB. A late night club called "The Huddle" will fill much of the first floor space along with the Chef's Table restaurant, the End Zone beer garden, an NFL Ticket Exchange location, a "warming area" and - on the second floor - a 23,000 square foot retail area run by Lids - selling athletic apparel, NFL items and other Super Bowl related things. Here's the story from the IBJ:

http://www.ibj.com/super-bowl-plans-set-for-former-nordstrom-space/PARAMS/article/31990

Will RTW Debate Derail Indy's Mass Transit?

http://indypolitics.tumblr.com/post/16005986794

Here's an interesting one. Megabus is starting service from Indy to Nashville. I assume this is a continuation of a Chicago route and will also stop in Louisville:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120117/BUSINESS/201170355/Megabus-adds-Indy-Nashville-route?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

To me this illustrates one advantage of Indy's geography. I mentioned previously Cincinnati's superior positioning in terms of mega-regional geography. But Indy is the aggregation point to Chicago. In terms of Megabus this means:

- Indy gets far more frequent service to Chicago than similar cities because all beyond buses stop in Indy.
- Indy is a mini-hub because it gets service to not just Chicago, but Columbus, Cincinnati, Louisville, and Nashville.

There would be similar dynamics at work for high speed rail. How to exploit this type of geographical aggregation point is something I think locals should consider.

I read this and jumped on megabus.com. Indy to Nashville routes aren't listed yet, but as a frequent Megabus user to Chicago, and almost nowhere else, Nashville sounds like it'd be a fantastic weekend vacation spot. I'll be taking it soon.

Megabus doesn't work like Greyhound or trains. The news here isn't that Nashville is new to Megabus, it's that there's now a direct line to Nashville. There are no stops in Louisville at all right now.

One can already go to Nashville on Megabus, in order to do so, one has to pay for multiple trips to get to Chatanooga and then to Nashville somehow.. That's how Megabus makes money while charging so little, billing direct city to city trips, no stops only.

So... to get from Chicago to Nashville, one would have to pay for a trip from Chicago to Indy, then pay for a trip from Indy to Nashville which will likely be a different bus. One can't just pay for a single trip from Chicago to Nashville.


Here's an interesting one. Megabus is starting service from Indy to Nashville. I assume this is a continuation of a Chicago route and will also stop in Louisville:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120117/BUSINESS/201170355/Megabus-adds-Indy-Nashville-route?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

To me this illustrates one advantage of Indy's geography. I mentioned previously Cincinnati's superior positioning in terms of mega-regional geography. But Indy is the aggregation point to Chicago. In terms of Megabus this means:

- Indy gets far more frequent service to Chicago than similar cities because all beyond buses stop in Indy.
- Indy is a mini-hub because it gets service to not just Chicago, but Columbus, Cincinnati, Louisville, and Nashville.

There would be similar dynamics at work for high speed rail. How to exploit this type of geographical aggregation point is something I think locals should consider.

The Nashville media is reporting it as service from Chicago to Nashville, two per day. I've taken Megabus from Chicago many times. The bus from Chicago frequently goes through to Cincinnati or Columbus, with no change or separate ticket required.

Here's an interesting one. Megabus is starting service from Indy to Nashville. I assume this is a continuation of a Chicago route and will also stop in Louisville:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120117/BUSINESS/201170355/Megabus-adds-Indy-Nashville-route?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

To me this illustrates one advantage of Indy's geography. I mentioned previously Cincinnati's superior positioning in terms of mega-regional geography. But Indy is the aggregation point to Chicago. In terms of Megabus this means:

- Indy gets far more frequent service to Chicago than similar cities because all beyond buses stop in Indy.
- Indy is a mini-hub because it gets service to not just Chicago, but Columbus, Cincinnati, Louisville, and Nashville.

There would be similar dynamics at work for high speed rail. How to exploit this type of geographical aggregation point is something I think locals should consider.

I wouldnt say that locals have missed this as much as the focus is more on simply getting the state to recognize alternative modes of transport (like rail service you can really use to get to/from chicago) as a market that we are interested in using. As it currently exists, Amtrak is ridiculous to use for getting to/from Chicago. At least in suburban and rural Chicago, there is daily Amtrak at times of the day that make sense.

No kidding.. There is 1 daily line from Chicago to Indy. It leaves 5:45pm Chicago time and arrives at 1am at union station... Never again will I take it as much as I love trains.

From today's Indianapolis Star, here is a compilation of Super Bowl related parties, concerts and entertainment events scheduled from January 26th through February 5th. It came out to be about six pages worth when I printed it out.

The Mark Cuban / Peyton Manning hosted party with Katy Perry on Feb. 4th will be going on at the same time as the Rolling Stone / Bacardi party with LMFAO and others - just a few blocks apart. Ten days / nights of free concerts on Georgia Street; parties downtown, Broad Ripple and all over the place..... should be fun!

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120117/LIVING12/120117012/The-List-Super-Bowl-parties-events-concerts-coming-Indy?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|s

Six bollards are partly installed this morning on C T, on E and W sides of Conrad parking area.

and

Study: Painted Bike Lanes Don’t Endanger Pedestrians or Anyone Else. January 6, 2012
http://www.streetsblog.org/2012/01/06/study-painted-bike-lanes-dont-endanger-pedestrians-or-anyone-else/

I read this and jumped on megabus.com. Indy to Nashville routes aren't listed yet, but as a frequent Megabus user to Chicago, and almost nowhere else, Nashville sounds like it'd be a fantastic weekend vacation spot. I'll be taking it soon.

Megabus doesn't work like Greyhound or trains. The news here isn't that Nashville is new to Megabus, it's that there's now a direct line to Nashville. There are no stops in Louisville at all right now.

One can already go to Nashville on Megabus, in order to do so, one has to pay for multiple trips to get to Chatanooga and then to Nashville somehow.. That's how Megabus makes money while charging so little, billing direct city to city trips, no stops only.

So... to get from Chicago to Nashville, one would have to pay for a trip from Chicago to Indy, then pay for a trip from Indy to Nashville which will likely be a different bus. One can't just pay for a single trip from Chicago to Nashville.

It's interesting that Megabus has this scheduled as a nearly six-hour trip from Indy to Nashville (287 miles), whereas GoogleMaps calls it a 4:43 trip. Lest you mistakenly think these buses drive slowly, Megabus does the 184-mile trip to Chicago in 3:15 compared to the 3:19 that GoogleMaps indicates. Any ideas why it would take so long, especially since their site indicates that they don't provide any service to Louisville? I rode once from Mpls to Chicago and they made a stop at a truck stop/fast-food place so people could grab food, but I didn't think that was any longer than about 30 minutes, and I'm not really sure there'd be a such a need on this shorter trip.

It's interesting that Megabus has this scheduled as a nearly six-hour trip from Indy to Nashville (287 miles), whereas GoogleMaps calls it a 4:43 trip. Lest you mistakenly think these buses drive slowly, Megabus does the 184-mile trip to Chicago in 3:15 compared to the 3:19 that GoogleMaps indicates. Any ideas why it would take so long, especially since their site indicates that they don't provide any service to Louisville? I rode once from Mpls to Chicago and they made a stop at a truck stop/fast-food place so people could grab food, but I didn't think that was any longer than about 30 minutes, and I'm not really sure there'd be a such a need on this shorter trip.

Dunno. Maybe they really will be stopping in Knoxville or Chatanooga first, or maybe they just have it wrong. They didn't have any Indy to Nashville routes listed at all yesterday.

And yeah, it really is 3:15 from Indy's CCB to Chicago's Union Station and vice versa. So much faster and easier than driving! I know people claim to make it to Chicago in under 3 hours by car... I've never seen it done. When you factor in getting gas and/or food and stopping at toll stations, it's usually closer to a 4 hour drive.

I just looked up 4 March trips from Indy to Nashville, each gave a different travel time. 5:40, 5:45, 6:00, and 5:50 respectively. Something's screwed up.

Dunno. Maybe they really will be stopping in Knoxville or Chatanooga first, or maybe they just have it wrong. They didn't have any Indy to Nashville routes listed at all yesterday.

And yeah, it really is 3:15 from Indy's CCB to Chicago's Union Station and vice versa. So much faster and easier than driving! I know people claim to make it to Chicago in under 3 hours by car... I've never seen it done. When you factor in getting gas and/or food and stopping at toll stations, it's usually closer to a 4 hour drive.

Six bollards are partly installed this morning on C T, on E and W sides of Conrad parking area.

and

Study: Painted Bike Lanes Don’t Endanger Pedestrians or Anyone Else. January 6, 2012
http://www.streetsblog.org/2012/01/06/study-painted-bike-lanes-dont-endanger-pedestrians-or-anyone-else/

Does that mean there is still time to take them out.....hahah

I just looked up 4 March trips from Indy to Nashville, each gave a different travel time. 5:40, 5:45, 6:00, and 5:50 respectively. Something's screwed up.

Another interesting aspect is their pricing model. I know they start at $1 for the first one or two seats on every trip and progressively go up from there, but it seems kinda messed up that you can book a trip from Nashville to Chicago on March 23rd for $7, but if you want to board that same bus when it stops in Indy to travel to Chicago, it is $31. Doesn't seem like the best way to make money to charge less for a longer trip on the same bus, but I guess they have to get people in Nashville hooked on the service.

Boarding times and days of the week have a lot to do with prices too. Sunday afternoons and evenings are typically the most expensive. It's demand I suppose, Indy people take weekend trips to Chicago (and vice versa) and want to return Sunday night. I'd guess as Nashville to Chicago gets popular, prices will rise.

Another interesting aspect is their pricing model. I know they start at $1 for the first one or two seats on every trip and progressively go up from there, but it seems kinda messed up that you can book a trip from Nashville to Chicago on March 23rd for $7, but if you want to board that same bus when it stops in Indy to travel to Chicago, it is $31. Doesn't seem like the best way to make money to charge less for a longer trip on the same bus, but I guess they have to get people in Nashville hooked on the service.

On longer trips Megabus can stop for up to 45 minutes for a rest stop. That adds to the time.

Also, their prices have really started to go up of late, particularly if you don't book way in advance. I think they've dialed back capacity to get better seat utilization. Makes for good business sense, if a less pleasant and more expensive trip.

Does that mean there is still time to take them out.....hahah

I'm guessing these are the 1st of many. All along Washington street, people are driving and parking on the trail, which has caused mucho damage. Most of it is not rated for vehicle traffic. I've even seen the Horse buggies using it as a dropoff zone. This won't stop until they're forced to stop. I have pics if anyone's interested. I've reported what I've seen to the appropriate people.

I'm guessing these are the 1st of many. All along Washington street, people are driving and parking on the trail, which has caused mucho damage. Most of it is not rated for vehicle traffic. I've even seen the Horse buggies using it as a dropoff zone. This won't stop until they're forced to stop. I have pics if anyone's interested. I've reported what I've seen to the appropriate people.
Please post your pictures when you have time. Thanks.

Please post your pictures when you have time. Thanks.

No problem, Mark Zwoyer has proven to be the most effective person in these regards. I'm guessing you already know that, and already have his contact info. If not, I'll PM them to you.

If you want to pursue this, you may wish to speak to the Valets at IRT. They have people pull onto the Cultural Trail hourly. It's freakin insane. This first pic is damage to the grate stones. These were all custom cut, and cost $170 apiece. any vehicle larger than a bicycle that goes over them WILL break them.

http://indianapolisparking.net/x.jpg

http://indianapolisparking.net/x1.jpg

http://indianapolisparking.net/x2.jpg

http://indianapolisparking.net/x3.jpg

http://indianapolisparking.net/x4.jpg

http://indianapolisparking.net/x5.jpg

http://indianapolisparking.net/x6.jpg

http://indianapolisparking.net/x7.jpg

geeze, that's sad. I had no idea it was this bad. I love the car mentality that if it is flat, open space, it must be for driving or parking a car and nothing else. I guess it shows how far we still have to go to change the mentality around here even slightly.

As much as I hate to say it, the way the bollards are at the Conrad are perfect to use on any part of the trail that has an alley or parking area crossing it. Plenty of room for bikes and peds to get through, and THAT will continue to happen until it's done. Go down to IRT, nearly half the $170 grate stones are broken already.

geeze, that's sad. I had no idea it was this bad. I love the car mentality that if it is flat, open space, it must be for driving or parking a car and nothing else. I guess it shows how far we still have to go to change the mentality around here even slightly.

[QUOTE=moochie;87709011]No problem, Mark Zwoyer has proven to be the most effective person in these regards. I'm guessing you already know that, and already have his contact info. If not, I'll PM them to you.


I can't tell by the picture, so I take it there is no curb on Washington Street from the drive lane to the bike trail? I'm just trying to remember but wasn't the rest of the trail elevated 6 inches with the curb on the other sections separating the drive lane and the trail? I'm in Austin, TX so I cannot remember. Also if the Washington Street section there is the same level, why did they do that?

You're essentially correct, the stretch between Delaware to Penn has only a 2 inch curb. It gets higher west down the road. Nothing that could be done about it, it's a drainage issue really.

Many of those pix are a few months old, so as light poles and signage went in, the problem of people pulling onto the trail over washington street curbs was alleviated a tiny bit. But the horse carriages regularly walk the trail from Delaware to Meridian from the pedestrian crosswalks on Delaware and Penn, not going over curbs.

This all mostly happens at night. Most of the problems are from delivery drivers and drivers picking people up. They get on the trail usually where an alley or parking garage crosses it, and park. Most of them aren't popping over curbs.

[QUOTE=moochie;87709011]No problem, Mark Zwoyer has proven to be the most effective person in these regards. I'm guessing you already know that, and already have his contact info. If not, I'll PM them to you.


I can't tell by the picture, so I take it there is no curb on Washington Street from the drive lane to the bike trail? I'm just trying to remember but wasn't the rest of the trail elevated 6 inches with the curb on the other sections separating the drive lane and the trail? I'm in Austin, TX so I cannot remember. Also if the Washington Street section there is the same level, why did they do that?

After re-reading this, I just want to clarify. The Valets at IRT are not the problem. They have the problem of dealing with people pulling onto the trail via the parking garage entrance next to the Colts restaurant and expecting them to park their cars. This drives the Valets crazy, and it's a constant pain in their collective rears.

It's not only damaging the trail, it's flat out dangerous for pedestrian, bicyclist and valet alike. Something's gotta be done over there.


If you want to pursue this, you may wish to speak to the Valets at IRT. They have people pull onto the Cultural Trail hourly. It's freakin insane. This first pic is damage to the grate stones. These were all custom cut, and cost $170 apiece. any vehicle larger than a bicycle that goes over them WILL break them.

http://indianapolisparking.net/x.jpg

Thanks for posting the photos.

*sigh*

We live among so many ignorant people

we need the guy from new york who got the ticket for not riding in a bike lane and thne created the youtube video of him riding into obstructions.......it would be great!