we need the guy from new york who got the ticket for not riding in a bike lane and thne created the youtube video of him riding into obstructions.......it would be great!

Word, came to say same thing.

It happens in NYC (and elsewhere) on their bike lanes too. I just want to make sure we don't all blame it on "dumb Hoosiers." :)

Once summer comes and the trail along Washington comes to life with bike traffic for the first time, things will change for the better.

It looke like the IRT valets and/or the garage have taken steps to alleviate the problem. From the pic below you can see how easy it is for people to pull in the garage entrance and continue right down the trail to get valet parked. It happens constantly. Partially blocking the trail with a sign isn't a good thing, but what choice do they have?

http://indianapolisparking.net/x8.jpg

a tree or sculpture in the landscaping portion of your image might do well to divide the space...not completely though.

Ice Skating Rink Building Glass cleaning


I put this on the Georgia Street forum but havent' heard on this so I posted it here since there are more of us looking at this page at any one time.


Has anyone cleaned the north face of the windows and brick that has all the deposits of minerals or whatever on the side that faces Georgia Street? That needs to be done. Someone should send and email if that hasn't been done yet.

Dunno why I didn't take a pic of it while I was down there, but look at the JW Marriott.. That's the start of a HUGE building wrap. I'm really curious what it is..

http://indianapolisparking.net/x8.jpg[/QUOTE]

Dunno why I didn't take a pic of it while I was down there, but look at the JW Marriott.. That's the start of a HUGE building wrap. I'm really curious what it is..

http://indianapolisparking.net/x8.jpg

It's the Lombardi Trophy.

The IBJ is reporting that the sposnor of the mass transit legislation in the House says its probably dead.

Maybe the sponsor is really an opponent.

Maybe the sponsor is really an opponent.

Ya think?:ohno:

These Republicans in the state legislature are complete hypocrites. They rail against the federal government and invoke the 10th amendment all the time but prevent Marion and Hamilton Counties from even having a VOTE to decide if they want improved mass transit.

What absolute scumbags.

These Republicans in the state legislature are complete hypocrites. They rail against the federal government and invoke the 10th amendment all the time but prevent Marion and Hamilton Counties from even having a VOTE to decide if they want improved mass transit.

What absolute scumbags.

Liberal garbage needs to stop coming out of your mouth the Democrats do it too so stop acting like Democrats are gods cause thats just plain stupidity. :bash:

Liberal garbage needs to stop coming out of your mouth the Democrats do it too so stop acting like Democrats are gods cause thats just plain stupidity. :bash:

Eloquently put. :nuts:

Again, please don't feed the trolls.

Again, please don't feed the trolls.

i don't think he is trolling as much as he is spewing out hypocracy and sadly its everywhere these days.
The Hypocrite Generation.

But anyway on Emporis.com i have noticed they haven't removed from their database the Tower at the Stutz from the planned to unbuilt catergory so is there a decent chance once the economy rebounds that we could see a major construction boom in Indianapolis?
I think the Super Bowl would help with that showcasing Indianapolis to the world.

These Republicans in the state legislature are complete hypocrites. They rail against the federal government and invoke the 10th amendment all the time but prevent Marion and Hamilton Counties from even having a VOTE to decide if they want improved mass transit.

What absolute scumbags.

Minus the closing bit of namecalling, this could have been written by a moderate Independent.

The Republican committee chair would do well to recall the fate of former Republican assembly leaders who lost track of the home folks while intoxicated with power: Dailey, Borst, Garton, and others.

I think the backwardness in the General Assembly goes beyond party labels, but where is the mayor on this? By virtue of his office he should be one of the most powerful figures in the state Republican Party, but he obviously has no influence. Perhaps it's because they know he won't take them on publicly when they screw him.

I think the backwardness in the General Assembly goes beyond party labels, but where is the mayor on this? By virtue of his office he should be one of the most powerful figures in the state Republican Party, but he obviously has no influence. Perhaps it's because they know he won't take them on publicly when they screw him.

I'm wondering why Speaker Bosma is MIA. Doesn't the proposed rail line run through or near his district? The line should certainly benefit his suburban-commuter constituents.

What I have heard is that the RTW thing has pretty much deflated everything else. The votes are there with some minor changes that Espich is already on record as saying he would change.

Get the RTW out of the way and we may see some positive movement

Yuck Patriots are coming to Indianapolis for Super bowl 46.
BRING IN THE GIANTS AND REPEAT THE WIN OF SUPER BOWL 42!

Yuck Patriots are coming to Indianapolis for Super bowl 46.
BRING IN THE GIANTS AND REPEAT THE WIN OF SUPER BOWL 42!

Or even Jim Harbaugh's 49ers. Anybody but Brady and Belichick.

Of course, the only way the Pats can win in LOS is if the Colts aren't playing. :cheers:

From Abdul --
Mass Transit might not be dead just yet. Word is House Ways & Means Chairman Jeff Espich has agreed to pull what the Democrats call “anti-labor” language out of the bill. That would get the Dems on board. Now all he needs is one or two Republicans and he can get it out of committee and onto the floor.

From Abdul --
Mass Transit might not be dead just yet. Word is House Ways & Means Chairman Jeff Espich has agreed to pull what the Democrats call “anti-labor” language out of the bill. That would get the Dems on board. Now all he needs is one or two Republicans and he can get it out of committee and onto the floor.

Thats what I have heard as well. Even the regular reporting on the issue has said that they can pull the labor language due to federal law about how funding is spent.

I checked back at the comments on the IBJ story abn=out the bill, and people are actually more positive than usual. A lot of comments deal with just letting it go to vote. I am not sure if it just happens to be that group that commented or what, but it is nice to see a distinction between actually approving the money vs. just giving residents the right to vote.........aren't we supposed to have the right to vote anyways?

The local business community lost a key leader this week.

http://www.ibj.com/hhgregg-executive-throgmartin-dies-at-57/PARAMS/article/32110

I'm going to make a prediction: Indy will hit a home run for hosting the superbowl, and receive excellent press. But, most positive articles written about us will have something to say about our pitiful lack of public transportation as well as our lack of taxis. 700 taxis for 150,000 people...

Easy access to downtown will be critical for these visitors, and we're going to fall flat on our faces in this regard. Hopefully the bad press will wake some people up.

I checked back at the comments on the IBJ story abn=out the bill, and people are actually more positive than usual. A lot of comments deal with just letting it go to vote. I am not sure if it just happens to be that group that commented or what, but it is nice to see a distinction between actually approving the money vs. just giving residents the right to vote.........aren't we supposed to have the right to vote anyways?

The city is already receiving high praise for it's organization and preparation for the Super Bowl. I agree Moochie, I think this will be a home run for the city. I've also heard that there have been a lot of important business meetings going on in the city the past couple of weeks, hopefully that will pan out into future investment here.

i think weather will be important. Some snow won't be the end of the world, but it seems like nothing was cleared after this sleet storm we had saturday. I know dallas will be remembered for the ice to some degree. Hopefully we can score 40's and some sun. It really helps the mood of DT.

Here is a new story regarding the Super Bowl:

http://www.ibj.com/super-bowl-matchup-touchdown-for-city-experts-say/PARAMS/article/32111

I hope so. I'm guessing that in coming months and years we'll be able to point to the Superbowl and our city's reviews and say: "We can't consider ourselves a world class city until we build a world class public transportation system". Hopefully the Superbowl will make that point clear to the doubters.

The city is already receiving high praise for it's organization and preparation for the Super Bowl. I agree Moochie, I think this will be a home run for the city. I've also heard that there have been a lot of important business meetings going on in the city the past couple of weeks, hopefully that will pan out into future investment here.

As long as the unions don't pull any stunts over RTW and the weather isn't a disaster. We should be ok.

Again, please don't feed the trolls.

I don't think the poster was trolling. Rather, he was stating his honest opinion. Now, it may have involved name-calling (of third-parties, not other forum members), etc., but it was said with the purpose of conveying an idea, not simply to provoke other posters into an argument or just to piss people off.

Also, while I agree posters should avoid calling each other names, or using racial epithets, or other offensive language. I don't think calling the Republican or Democratic members of the General Assembly a fairly mild insult (there was no foul language or use of racial epithets, etc.) should be considered offensive by any forum member unless they happen to be related to one of the GA members. The poster was referring to a specific set of state legislators, not individuals who may happen to vote Republican.

And, I do agree that members of the General Assembly (regardless of political affiliation) do act like scum-bags when they don't have an honest philosophical objection to a bill, but still hold it up in committee just for the sake of scoring political points and/or tweaking the other side. When they act this way, they are no longer representing the interests of their constituents who put them into office, and it is pretty despicable behavior.

700 taxis for 150,000 people...

Valid questions about adequate quantity aside, I'm also concerned about the potential negative effect of the anti-hail-a-cab-from-the-curb approach we have here. Catching a taxi is all about hailing one down from where you are, not walking blocks to a couple of designated corrals. Not used to phoning a cab, visitors may be frustrated having to figure out who to call to get a cab. The system is awkward and seasoned east coast taxi users may well expose this flaw as well.

Valid questions about adequate quantity aside, I'm also concerned about the potential negative effect of the anti-hail-a-cab-from-the-curb approach we have here. Catching a taxi is all about hailing one down from where you are, not walking blocks to a couple of designated corrals. Not used to phoning a cab, visitors may be frustrated having to figure out who to call to get a cab. The system is awkward and seasoned east coast taxi users may well expose this flaw as well.

Oh yeah, one can be 10 miles from the center of Chicago and walk to the curb and hail a cab in minutes. I remember being amazed by that as a youngster. The concept of having to phone a cab will be utterly foreign for our New York visitors..

However, it's not like that everywhere. In Rome for example, cabs wait in a line on certain streets for customers and you have to walk to the front of the queue and take the first one. The ones waiting in line won't even take you until they're first in line. Not all will be put out by our way of doing it.

Oh yeah, one can be 10 miles from the center of Chicago and walk to the curb and hail a cab in minutes. I remember being amazed by that as a youngster. The concept of having to phone a cab will be utterly foreign for our New York visitors..

However, it's not like that everywhere. In Rome for example, cabs wait in a line on certain streets for customers and you have to walk to the front of the queue and take the first one. The ones waiting in line won't even take you until they're first in line. Not all will be put out by our way of doing it.

The same could be said for Boston visitors to Indy. A lot of cities have cabs stands, essentially the same thing you alluded to about Rome, throughout the city. They work very well and are usually placed in high traffic areas.

Yes -- I think under the circumstances -- this plan is the best strategy for dealing with the crowds. Otherwise - people will be walking further and further outward from the city center to intercept incoming taxis. Then - none of the taxis will actually reach the center city and all the people there will not have any access to them. By having designated wait areas - it at least gives a little structure to the system. Also - a lot of people may have their own travel accomodations set up in advance - so that may lessen the demand on the taxis.

Fortunately there will also be some shuttle bus services to bring people from the heart of downtown to the Mass Ave and Fountain Square entertainment districts - which are about 3/4 of a mile and 1 1/2 miles from the heart of downtown, respectively. By having these shuttles available, it will free up more of the taxis to be used for getting people out to locations further away. This should keep the cabbies happy because they'll get more of the longer trips with higher fares.

If the weather is nice (which the current forecast is showing to be the case - parrticularly for the Thurs, Fri and Saturday parts of SB week*) - there may also be a good number of pedal cabs up and running - to help people get to the nearby areas.


* The fifteen day forecast I looked at this morning projected a high of 50 degrees and mostly sunny on Thursday the 2nd (overnight low of 36), High of 42 and partly cloudy on Friday, and a high of 35 with a mix of sun and clouds on Saturday. Overall not too bad. On Sunday - the report predicted it to be mostly cloudy with a high of 30. A little cool -- but a lot of people may be sleeping in Sunday morning recuperating - so they probably won't be outside quite as much on that day - and will be either inside the stadium or inside a bar once it gets to be game time. As long as it isn't absolutely freezing - or a drizzly mess of sloppy, freezing rain - I think things will work out pretty well.

My best Indy taxi cab/mass transit story, which I have probably told before, but here goes.

A couple of years ago, while bike commuting from Irvington to downtown , I blew a tire at the intersection of Michigan and Rural and didn't have a repair kit with me. I used my phone to look up the #3 bus schedule, and of course it was going to be nearly an hour before another bus went by (I probably could have walked it to Washington Street, but I digress). So, I called Yellow cab.

Me: I need a cab, please.

Operator: Address?

Me: I'm at the intersection of Michigan and Rural.

Operator: I need a street address, not an intersection.

Me: Uh, let me see...2601 East Michigan Street.

Operator: Is that a business or residence?

Me: It's neither. I blew a tire on my bike. I'm standing on a street corner.

Operator (indignantly): Sir! We don't just pick people up....on street corners!

Me: You're a taxi cab company. Is there a better description for your business than 'picking people up on street corners'?



Of course, I gave the address and was picked up, but it seemed like a strange perspective. The weak bus schedule and the odd taxi procedure say quite a bit about our non-car transit, unfortunately.

I'm going to make a prediction: Indy will hit a home run for hosting the superbowl, and receive excellent press. But, most positive articles written about us will have something to say about our pitiful lack of public transportation as well as our lack of taxis. 700 taxis for 150,000 people...

Easy access to downtown will be critical for these visitors, and we're going to fall flat on our faces in this regard. Hopefully the bad press will wake some people up.

I hope that people have enough to do in Indy. Alot of complaints up here in the Chicago area is that there is not enough to do in Indy, and not enough restaurants. Not my words, several people I know, radio hosts, people that I meet in Chicago.

Valid questions about adequate quantity aside, I'm also concerned about the potential negative effect of the anti-hail-a-cab-from-the-curb approach we have here. Catching a taxi is all about hailing one down from where you are, not walking blocks to a couple of designated corrals. Not used to phoning a cab, visitors may be frustrated having to figure out who to call to get a cab. The system is awkward and seasoned east coast taxi users may well expose this flaw as well.

As a regular cab user I catch them a designated spots (hotels) and flag taxis all the time..

I hope that people have enough to do in Indy. Alot of complaints up here in the Chicago area is that there is not enough to do in Indy, and not enough restaurants. Not my words, several people I know, radio hosts, people that I meet in Chicago.

Indy is a nice, small city. If I were going to the Super Bowl, I would only go for a few days. Indy is not the type of place you can go for 5 or 6 days and have a jammed pack schedule.

Most fans traveling for the game will probably go for 2-3 days which will be perfect. I am sure Indy will get good reviews for their hosting abilities.

Oh yeah, one can be 10 miles from the center of Chicago and walk to the curb and hail a cab in minutes. I remember being amazed by that as a youngster. The concept of having to phone a cab will be utterly foreign for our New York visitors..\

I think you exaggerate. The far north side maybe, but the reality is that in the vast bulk of Chicago neighborhoods, you can't easily hail a cab on the street.

I think you exaggerate. The far north side maybe, but the reality is that in the vast bulk of Chicago neighborhoods, you can't easily hail a cab on the street.

I'm not the Chicago expert, but in May 2011 my car broke down on the way to Island Lake, and I had it towed to a mechanic. I hailed a cab from the curb to get to Union Station to take the terrible Amtrack ride back to Indy. I got a cab in less than 10 minutes and paid a mint..

How far is Island lake from Union Station? It sure cost a lot.

edit - I just looked it up.. 43 miles. I think I was towed a bit further than I thought. I've got their card,

New Clark
Julio and Daniel
5006 N. Clark
Chicago IL 60640

The only place that's open Sunday in the whole freakin city of Chicago apparently. 8.9 miles to Union Station.

I hope that people have enough to do in Indy. Alot of complaints up here in the Chicago area is that there is not enough to do in Indy, and not enough restaurants. Not my words, several people I know, radio hosts, people that I meet in Chicago.
I have traveled extensively around the US and Europe for many years, and I find there are more than enough amazing restaurants, bars and activities in Indy. Evidently the city needs to do an even better job in educating others of our amenities, because I often find that ignorance is the cause of those perceptions. Unfortunately, for a city our size, it's often an uphill battle, as we have to overcome outdated perceptions of our past inadequacies in those areas. It will eventually happen, even if we have to win people over one by one! In the meantime, we can strive to create the best environment possible, which I think Indianapolis does reasonably well overall. In other words, be so good they can't ignore you.

I think people will be pretty amazed at the high number and density of good sized restaurants in the core of downtown Indianapolis. Off the top of my head I counted about 100 - and these are just the larger ones - and not any of the fast food places. When you start adding the Subways and Arby's and Taco Bells - you quickly get to 150and then when you add the Mass Ave and Fountain Square areas and the various other concentrations of restaurants located in other corners of downtown (N. Penn, Indiana Ave, Fletcher Place, etc.) you're up around 200.

There also will be numerous walk up places along the Georgia Street Corridor where people will be able to buy some beers, burgers (and who knows what else). I'm sure the numerous food trucks will be out in force as well. I believe I've heard they have a designated area on or near the Circle. Now you've got twenty or so additional places where people can walk up and pick up something to eat quickly.

People should be spread out much more during this event as well (compared to the crowds for the Big Ten Football Championship). During the Big Ten event, the Georgia Street Corridor was really only set up for crowds on one block. This event not only has three blocks of Georgia Street - but also space on Capitol, Illinois, Meridian and Pennsylvania, meaning there is probably six or seven times more outdoor space set aside for the SB. Also - there is "The Huddle" where people can get food and drinks right along the Corridor - and it must be about 30,000 - 40,000 sq. feet. With the ability to bring alcoholic beverages outdoors - there won't be quite as many people trying to get inside (and stay inside) the many bars - so I think things will be spread out pretty well. More people should also disperse out to the Mass Avenue and Fountain Square areas - as well as to Broad Ripple and numerous other areas that are hosting their own special SB related activities.

I'm sure the big name places will be packed (at most of the top places you already can't get a reservation within a week of the big game) but there should still be plenty of other options. One of the biggest differences with this event though (from the Big Ten Championship) is how many local folks will be showing up to hear the concerts and see the various other things like the NFL Experience at the Convention Center, the zip line, the human guinea pig wheel, the live ESPN stages, etc. That could potentially mean tens of thousands of additional people. There are definitely plenty of questions about how things will work out - "overall transportation" being a primary concern - but I think once the crowds make it into the central core area -- they should have a blast and I don't think they'll have too much trouble finding something to eat and drink.

Nice story in this morning's Indy Star about the re-opening of the former St. Vincent's hospital which is now a student center and classroom facility for Ivy Tech Community College. The building was originally opened in 1913 - so the renovation of the beautiful old building comes 99 years later. A photo slide show is included in the story below.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120120/LOCAL18/201200322/Ivy-Tech-celebrating-renovation-former-hospital-Indianapolis?odyssey=obinsite

Nice story in this morning's Indy Star about the re-opening of the former St. Vincent's hospital which is now a student center and classroom facility for Ivy Tech Community College. The building was originally opened in 1913 - so the renovation of the beautiful old building comes 99 years later. A photo slide show is included in the story below.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120120/LOCAL18/201200322/Ivy-Tech-celebrating-renovation-former-hospital-Indianapolis?odyssey=obinsite

Was there on Saturday for the public open house. It's remarkable, and so much better than the suburban high school Ivy Tech originally wanted to build instead of saving the historic building.

Considerable credit goes to Indiana Landmarks and neighborhood residents who pressed for a "save" instead of a total demolition.

It's all pretty cool. One of my earliest memories is of going to the public auction at St. Vincents and wandering from room to room with my parents. They ended up buying a few adjustable steel hospital beds for us kids, and a few adult potty chairs with removable cushions. They looked like normal living room chairs until you lifted the seat cushion..

I slept on my bed all the way through high school, and have fond memories playing on them as a child. They had these huge hand cranks that allowed one change it to an upright position, and also allowed for raising the legs and even bending the knees. None of these positions was comfortable however.. Those beds weighed a ton..

Was there on Saturday for the public open house. It's remarkable, and so much better than the suburban high school Ivy Tech originally wanted to build instead of saving the historic building.

Considerable credit goes to Indiana Landmarks and neighborhood residents who pressed for a "save" instead of a total demolition.

A little snippet to start the rumor mill running.. The Litebox people have left Indy and phone lines are disconnected and some bills aren't paid.. Bob has answered a few emails however and claims all is well.

http://blogs.indystar.com/superbuzz/2012/01/24/cnbcs-darren-rovell-indy-might-be-the-best-super-bowl-city-ever/

On ESPN’s Mike and Mike in the Morning, CNBC Sports Business reporter proclaimed something that’s likely never been heard before: Indianapolis might be the ideal spot to host the NFL’s annual world championship game and the festivities that come along with it.

“Indianapolis is the best Super Bowl city I’ve ever seen,” Rovell told the show’s hosts, Mike Greenberg and Mike Golic. “For example, when you go to New Orleans, you go to the parties which are a big part of the weekend. You can pretty much go to one party a night. It takes an hour or two to get five miles. Indianapolis is like eight blocks. The parties that are taking place in the same place Thursday and Friday night, you can walk. The whole weekend experience you can’t discount. Indy is a tremendous city.”

The vast majority of streets where people will be during the Super Bowl will be closed off. Even if hailing a cab were a standard in Indy, that system would break down due to the street closures. People will have to go out of the pedestrian zone to the surrounding streets to get transportation no matter what the standard was in Indy before the Super Bowl.

Litebox: that surprises me not at all.

A little snippet to start the rumor mill running.. The Litebox people have left Indy and phone lines are disconnected and some bills aren't paid.. Bob has answered a few emails however and claims all is well.

You've reported fact, and the thing speaks for itself.

http://blogs.indystar.com/superbuzz/2012/01/24/cnbcs-darren-rovell-indy-might-be-the-best-super-bowl-city-ever/

On ESPN’s Mike and Mike in the Morning, CNBC Sports Business reporter proclaimed something that’s likely never been heard before: Indianapolis might be the ideal spot to host the NFL’s annual world championship game and the festivities that come along with it.

“Indianapolis is the best Super Bowl city I’ve ever seen,” Rovell told the show’s hosts, Mike Greenberg and Mike Golic. “For example, when you go to New Orleans, you go to the parties which are a big part of the weekend. You can pretty much go to one party a night. It takes an hour or two to get five miles. Indianapolis is like eight blocks. The parties that are taking place in the same place Thursday and Friday night, you can walk. The whole weekend experience you can’t discount. Indy is a tremendous city.”

No matter how many people love the idea, I just don't see it. The NFL isn't the NCAA, and Indy lacks the capacity to raise and devote $25-30 million to the effort every year.

City to announce new mixed-use development with rumored new urban Marsh as major anchor.

From indystar.com:

The office of Mayor Greg Ballard announced Monday that he and "company executives" today will announce a major new mixed-use development in Downtown Indianapolis at the corner of Michigan Street and Senate Avenue.

The mayor's office provided no additional details.

But WTHR (Channel 13), the Star's newsgathering partner, reported today that a Marsh grocery would be a major part of the development. The grocery would be an urban prototype.

The development would be bordered by Michigan, Illinois and Vermont streets and Capitol Avenue, WTHR reported.

Indianapolis Business Journal's website reports unnamed "industry sources" said the Flaherty & Collins Properties plan calls for about 500 apartments, the grocery store, a parking garage and additional retail space on properties bounded by Michigan Street, Capital Avenue, Vermont Street and Indiana Avenue.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120124/BUSINESS/120124033/Reports-Development-include-Urban-Marsh-grocery-prototype-?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

IBJ is reporting too, calling it a "massive new downtown development."

http://www.ibj.com/marsh-to-anchor-massive-new-downtown-development/PARAMS/article/32137

IBJ is reporting too, calling it a "massive new downtown development."

Those who post here have been saying this is needed for as long as I've been reading and posting here.

Three cheers to OneAmerica for assembling and landbanking the "great sea of northwest parking" AND for knowing when to let it go.

CityWay and Cosmo II are proof that surface parking in near-downtown areas will eventually become too valuable for development to maintain as parking.

Pending further information, did anyone else look into the city financed parking deal of this. From a purely visual aspect, we are adding to the largest, ugliest bank of parking garages I have ever seen along Illinois. From a financial aspect, One America is selling a parking lot for a good price i'm sure, they are losing form aerials about 575 spaces, the city is then giving them 10 million for a 1,000 space garage and connection to the building.......hmmmm?

WOW!! Finally --- I've been waiting for twenty years for those large AUL parking lots to finally get developed. This is what needed to happen. AUL gets help meeting its parking needs with a more land efficient, 1000 space parking garage - and the city gets a huge new projects and its tax revenue. Hopefully - once the parking garage is built and AUL's tenants don't need to use surface parking lots, the other block and a half of surface parking will also be developed -- providing additional tax revenue to the city. The 1/2 block parking lot that AUL owns over by the canal is where the "Cosmopolitan II" has been proposed.

Considering the proposal is for 500 apartment units on one block - in addition to a 1000 space garage and a grocery store and additional retail -- they are going to need to build this thing pretty tall. What do you think? Two twenty five story buildings? Cool. Can't wait to get the additional details and see the site plans and drawings.

That White Castle on South Street is going to get hammered with business in the next 2 weeks.

That White Castle on South Street is going to get hammered with business in the next 2 weeks.

I'm more concerned about the Red Garter. ;)

http://blogs.indystar.com/superbuzz/2012/01/24/cnbcs-darren-rovell-indy-might-be-the-best-super-bowl-city-ever/

On ESPN’s Mike and Mike in the Morning, CNBC Sports Business reporter proclaimed something that’s likely never been heard before: Indianapolis might be the ideal spot to host the NFL’s annual world championship game and the festivities that come along with it.

“Indianapolis is the best Super Bowl city I’ve ever seen,” Rovell told the show’s hosts, Mike Greenberg and Mike Golic. “For example, when you go to New Orleans, you go to the parties which are a big part of the weekend. You can pretty much go to one party a night. It takes an hour or two to get five miles. Indianapolis is like eight blocks. The parties that are taking place in the same place Thursday and Friday night, you can walk. The whole weekend experience you can’t discount. Indy is a tremendous city.”

Great news!

Here's a link to a promo for a show that will be on WFYI this Thursday night at 9:00 pm. Its called "Naptown to Super City" and is about how Indy used a strategy of promoting sporting events in the downtown area to transform the city. I'm going to make sure to watch this.

http://www.indystar.com/section/NEWS20

IBJ is reporting too, calling it a "massive new downtown development."

http://www.ibj.com/marsh-to-anchor-massive-new-downtown-development/PARAMS/article/32137

More great news for the city and downtown!! Any idea on when we might get to see some renderings? Furthermore, will this be a high-rise or mid-rise project?

I have renderings in press release fromthe city. Imagine they will be on Indystar and IBJ shortly.

Per Mayor's office announcement "Anticipated rents are $1,075 to $2,200 per month... featuring granite countertops, roman soaking tubs, stainless steel appliances... and a heated saltwater pool."

<knee jerk> Really? C'mon!

Why the push for such massive, luxury units with a high price point? </knee jerk>

...btw, I actually support this. I'm glad to see the parking lots disappear and see a new grocery store downtown. I just want to hear about a complex I can afford to move into.

More great news for the city and downtown!! Any idea on when we might get to see some renderings? Furthermore, will this be a high-rise or mid-rise project?

Conrad cost around $95 million if I am not mistaken. CityWay is around $150 million. So, I would guess it would be a midrise around 10-15 floors with the first floor being retail. The $70-$90 million they mentioned for the project included $10 million for the 1000 space garage as well. Just my guess though. Hopefully the renderings will come soon and shed light.

Thats what happens when "free market" drives investment like this.

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Mayor/Documents/2012-01-24_Site-Overall.pdf

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Mayor/Documents/2011-01-24_Exterior-TheAxis2.pdf

Awesome news on the parking lot redevelopment.

In light of some recent discussion about how best to deal with the conflicts between bike lanes and right turn lanes, these brief videos should be of interest. Would this work here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FlApbxLz6pA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBwMRGxtZ9k&feature=player_embedded

I was a little confused with the location of the Flaherty and Collins project. I thought the parking garage and the mixed use apartments / retail project were all on the same block. The garage is just north of the AUL building and the mixed use project is a block NW of the garage bordered by Indiana Avenue, Michigan Street, Capitol Avenue and Vermont Street. This project seems to have been added onto the previously mentioned Cosmopolitan II project. Looks like the 500 apartment units will be spread out over the 1 1/2 block area. There may not be any significantly tall buildlings (ie over 20 stories) -- but I'm guessing we'll most likely see a couple in the 10 - 15 story range. That'll be a nice filler in between the 38 story AUL building and the previously announced new 26 story student housing building planned for a few blocks north on the canal.

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Mayor/Documents/2012-01-24_Site-Overall.pdf

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Mayor/Documents/2011-01-24_Exterior-TheAxis2.pdf

Any questions about the government subsidies notwithstanding, it would be great to see something like this happen. But am I the only one who gets frustrated when the architect doesn't know whether the project would be located on Michigan Avenue or Michigan Street?

Wonder how vertical these apartment will go. 500 is a large sum in a block and a half. I would estimate a range of 8 to 10 stories if not higher in some parts of the develpment. Are there any renderings yet?

From the rendering linked above. Looks like it will be same height as Cosmo 5-7 floors.

The development kind of reminds me of the development along South Halsted in Chicago near the University of Chicago. 4-6 story mid rise built with first floor retail. Caters primarily to young professionals, grad students and college students.

I like it. It is good dense development for a growing part of downtown. Removes parking lots, adds a grocery store, further expands the connection of downtown businesses to residential to the IU Health Medical Campuses along the canal and to IUPUI to the West. Overall I fell like this is a big win. I wish that the first floor of the One America garage would have more retail along Illinois.

Article with rendering from Indystar.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120124/BUSINESS/120124033/Urban-grocery-487-apartments-set-Block-400-project?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

Here's a different view from the Star:

Referencing the aerial PDF that Cailes linked to, looks to be the intersection of Michigan and Senate, looking southeast.

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=BG&Date=20120124&Category=BUSINESS&ArtNo=120124033&Ref=AR&MaxW=640&Border=0&-Block-400-development-include-487-apartments-urban-grocery

It looks very nice even though its only 5 floors, sigh.

It's an awesome development, but they need marketing help. "Block 400" sounds like Block 37, a site in Chicago that sat empty for decades as every attempt to develop it met with disaster. Once it was finally developed it immediately went bankrupt. And "The Axis...?"

Yes -- I'm fine with seeing a continuation of these 4 - 7 story infill residential projects throughout downtown. In a modern way - it adds kind of Parisian style with the height consistency. I agree with the point that its kind of crummy to see a parking garage all along the west side of that block of Illinois Street. I don't think there will be first floor retail either -- at least not all along the eastern edge of that block. The map key says that there will only be 1,600 sq. feet of retail in the parking garage - and shows a small yellow block at the northwest corner of the intersection of New York and Illinois. 1,600 sq. feet would just be enough space to have commercial on that one corner. There probably isn't any more that will go in along Illinois Street. I wish they could shift the location of the garage - perhaps a little west, to the middle part of the block - and then have some type of office / residential mix go in on either side (along Illinois and Capitol). Maybe that could be discussed further in the hearings about the site plan.

Flavius: "It's an awesome development, but they need marketing help. "Block 400" sounds like Block 37 ..... "

Not that its a whole lot better but --- for that "Block 400" project - they are also referring to it as "The Point". Makes sense because the building forms a point looking westward where Michigan Street meets Indiana Avenue.

,,,

I think the height is fine. Indy doesn't need skyscrapers, it needs quality urban form. Skyscrpers are tough to do because of the need for all that parking. Even in Chicago way too many high rise residential buildings sit on ugly parking pedestals.

Hear hear. Besides, if we fill in all those freakin parking lots, the tall buildings will be built whether we want them or not. We need to concentrate on building a sustainable truly 24 hour downtown and let the tall towers come later.

Now... if we could only do something about the MSA site...

I think the height is fine. Indy doesn't need skyscrapers, it needs quality urban form. Skyscrpers are tough to do because of the need for all that parking. Even in Chicago way too many high rise residential buildings sit on ugly parking pedestals.

Hear hear. Besides, if we fill in all those freakin parking lots, the tall buildings will be built whether we want them or not. We need to concentrate on building a sustainable truly 24 hour downtown and let the tall towers come later.

Now... if we could only do something about the MSA site...

Agree 100% on every point. Please let's get a good plan for the MSA site.

I think the height is fine. Indy doesn't need skyscrapers, it needs quality urban form. Skyscrpers are tough to do because of the need for all that parking. Even in Chicago way too many high rise residential buildings sit on ugly parking pedestals.

Indy DOES need more highrises! The country's 11th largest city should have a better skyline! Lots of smaller cities have much better skylines...

I found it interesting that -- in the first story about this project, the city's investment in the parking garage was listed at $10 million. By the second article that I read in the Indy Star - the city's cost was $11 million. Then I read the story in the IBJ's Property Lines blog and it said the city's cost for the garage was $13 million! Yikes --- that's a $3 million gain in just about two hours!

If the city is putting that much into the garage -- I really think they need to coordinate with AUL to design a garage that can fit into more of the central part of the block and can allow for future development around it. If there are going to be 150 apartments built in the future on that same block as the garage (just my hypothetical assumption) - a plan should be developed to add another floor to handle the additional parking requirements that will come with it.

Ideally though --- with all of these new apartments -- hopefully we'll start to see a lessened demand for downtown parking as more and more people are able to walk and/or ride their bikes to work, school, etc.

Indy DOES need more highrises! The country's 11th largest city should have a better skyline! Lots of smaller cities have much better skylines...

I kind of agree in general. It is nice to see residential districts like this come up with a common theme and design concept and even height. BUT we have them here in Austin as well in areas.

In the last 7 years Austin has been on a "tower boom" 90% of it residential ranging from 20 to 56 floors. It has been crazy. They have been spaced out far enough apart to give the skyline a great look when we had a modest skyline. Probably like Indy was back in 1978 size wise. And that was only 8 to 9 years ago.

Indy needs about 7 or 8 25 to 35 story range spread out in key areas go give the skyline a more dramatic look. If I knew how to post a picture here I would post a picture of the Austin Skyline from Zilker Park. Very dramatic and nearly all the tallest ones are less that 5 years old. And we are smaller than Indianapolis.... Go figure....

Regarding Indy being the 11th largest city:

While Indy is about the 11th or 12th largest "City" in the country, as most people on this blog should know, we are about the 29th or 30th largest Metropolitan area in the country. That is the measure that determines the real size rankings of communities across the nation. We fit in there nicely with Kansas City, Charlotte, Cincinnati, Austin, Nashville, Columbus, Sacramento, and a few others in the 1.6 million to 2.2 million population range. Our skyline holds its own pretty well with most cities in that size range. We'll probably continue to get more mid rises and a few high rises over the next decades. Continued growth of a beautiful, dense downtown with a great mix of residential, office, commercial buildings, hotels and entertainment facilities will be very ideal. With the Cityway and "Axis / Point" projects -- we are getting rid of about six square blocks of surface parking!! Those are the real killers of good, walkable urban communities.

There are still some spots in the core where some high rises could go (south of Washington between Meridian and Pennsylvania would be perfect for a nice 35 story building for example. Also along Pennsylvania across from Banker's Life Fieldhouse as well as the MSA site). I think things are going well - and becoming increasingly attractive for more and more people to want to live and visit downtown.

Indy isn't really the 11th (or 12th or whatever) largest city. That's just a measurement of square miles in city boundaries and population or somesuch. I think we actually beat out San Francisco by that meter, and San Fran is clearly a much larger city.

The true measurement of city size is MSA, a complex concept that bores me so much that I'll leave it to someone else to explain if someone chooses to..

Bottom line, indy is somewhere between #25th and #30th largest metropolitan area.

Absolutely we need a better skyline, but I'd much rather see the gaps filled in by a dozen midrises and a dozen 20 to 30 story buildings than a few really tall ones. What does extra tall get you anyway?

Indy DOES need more highrises! The country's 11th largest city should have a better skyline! Lots of smaller cities have much better skylines...

^^ Glad we agree. We must have been typing the same thing at about the exact same time.

Looking back to residential projects completed in the past six months and forward to what is under construction and planned for the next two years -- I've counted about 2700 new residential units downtown. At about 1 1/2 people per unit - that should add about 4000 new downtown residents. Very excellent. That should bring downtown Indy up around 28,000 - 30,000 downtown residents in the area bounded by 16th street on the north, the river on the west, and the I-65 / I-70 inner interstate loop on the east and south.

Indy isn't really the 11th (or 12th or whatever) largest city. That's just a measurement of square miles in city boundaries and population or somesuch. I think we actually beat out San Francisco by that meter, and San Fran is clearly a much larger city.

The true measurement of city size is MSA, a complex concept that bores me so much that I'll leave it to someone else to explain if someone chooses to..

Bottom line, indy is somewhere between #25th and #30th largest metropolitan area.

Absolutely we need a better skyline, but I'd much rather see the gaps filled in by a dozen midrises and a dozen 20 to 30 story buildings than a few really tall ones. What does extra tall get you anyway?

The Chase Tower is great and we don't really need anything taller. But several more 30-40 strory towers would do wonders. And what does it get you? Stronger perception that Indy is a major city. Look at the skyline coming in from east side of town. Pretty unimpressive. Look at how dense Minneapolis' skyline is...surely we could match that.

Looking back to residential projects completed in the past six months and forward to what is under construction and planned for the next two years -- I've counted about 2700 new residential units downtown. At about 1 1/2 people per unit - that should add about 4000 new downtown residents. Very excellent. That should bring downtown Indy up around 28,000 - 30,000 downtown residents in the area bounded by 16th street on the north, the river on the west, and the I-65 / I-70 inner interstate loop on the east and south.

:righton:

I'm loving it, but I do think you overstate the population. I'll admit to only having looked in detail at the 2000 data, and that not including the I-65 to 16th St. corridor, but at that time there were only about ~8,000ish in the area, if you exclude the 3,000 people in jail.

You've reported fact, and the thing speaks for itself.

Here's another fact. They stored some relatively valuable equipment in one of my residential rental properties 30 days ago. By IN law, I now own it seeing as we had no agreement written or otherwise for storage. I made a call to the last known good area code 805 number this morning asking if they were coming back to get it. I don't have to do that, but I kinda felt like I should give them a chance.

No response yet. Score one for me... eBay, here I come!

All of us here love skylines.. but we're all a bunch of urban development geeks. Seriously, the average person doesn't have any interest at all in such things except when buying postcards.

What most people notice in a city is whether they had a pleasant stay or not. What matters most to a city is livability, affordability, good schools, easy transportation, good nightlife and daytime acivities etc. etc. a great skyline is waaayy down on the list of priorities.

In fact, most of my favorite cities in the world have no real skyline to speak of at all. Budapest, Venice, Florence, Amsterdam, Savannah Georgia to name a few that I like as well or better than I like Chicago, land of the skyscraper.

The Chase Tower is great and we don't really need anything taller. But several more 30-40 strory towers would do wonders. And what does it get you? Stronger perception that Indy is a major city. Look at the skyline coming in from east side of town. Pretty unimpressive. Look at how dense Minneapolis' skyline is...surely we could match that.

The Chase Tower is great and we don't really need anything taller. But several more 30-40 strory towers would do wonders. And what does it get you? Stronger perception that Indy is a major city. Look at the skyline coming in from east side of town. Pretty unimpressive. Look at how dense Minneapolis' skyline is...surely we could match that.

Actually i would like to see the Market Square Arena site be transformed into the Indianapolis Exchange Center.
Make the Skyscraper 1000+ Feet tall and add some major corporations to it.
Chicago Board Options Exchange Inc CEO recently said he was embarassed to live in Illinois and heck thats a perfect opportunity EVEN after the corporate welfare given by Ill-Annoy to bring a major financial company like that here. Heck building a skyscraper like that we could also consolidate the HQ's of companies like HHGregg and Finish Line and Republic Airway holdings into downtown and move the jobs to downtown from the Suburbs.
Having a skyscraper that tall and with that much spaces gives Indy the chance to target major companies. CME group when they looked at Indianapolis only had the Chase Tower to choose from cause they demanded so much room.
Another great thing about this idea is even if we can't get a bunch of major corporations to relocate their HQ to the Indianapolis Exchange Center as i said before we can move some of the companies in the suburbs into Downtown.

So is this "Block 400" project different from the proposed flaherty and collins project along Indiana Avenue? And is that one still a go if it is different?

Actually, Indianapolis' CSA population makes it the 23rd largest city in America, about 24,000 less than Kansas City. Furthermore, the Indianapolis CSA should be expanded to include areas such as Bloomington, Lafayette, Kokomo and Muncie which would create a CSA with 3 million or more people depending on the configuration.

Oh, forgot to include a link with that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Combined_Statistical_Areas

Please don't misunderstand me: If given the choice between an empty parking lot and a 5-7 storey building, I'll choose the 5-7 storey building. However, in my heart of hearts I would love to see more high-rise construction. I agree with many of you that density and quality construction are important for the city's downtown. Yet, if Indianapolis had just built half of the proposed towers that never got beyond the drawing board this city would have a very different and much more dramatic skyline.

Please don't misunderstand me: If given the choice between an empty parking lot and a 5-7 storey building, I'll choose the 5-7 storey building. However, in my heart of hearts I would love to see more high-rise construction. I agree with many of you that density and quality construction are important for the city's downtown. Yet, if Indianapolis had just built half of the proposed towers that never got beyond the drawing board this city would have a very different and much more dramatic skyline.

Exactly which is what i want to change when i run for Mayor of Indianapolis.
Take note to my proposal i will as Mayor push for this if the Market Square Arena site isn't used up and even if it is i can easily find another place for it.
You have to be willing to work with local companies to consolidate jobs to Downtown Indianapolis from the suburbs.

Actually i would like to see the Market Square Arena site be transformed into the Indianapolis Exchange Center.
Make the Skyscraper 1000+ Feet tall and add some major corporations to it.
Chicago Board Options Exchange Inc CEO recently said he was embarassed to live in Illinois and heck thats a perfect opportunity EVEN after the corporate welfare given by Ill-Annoy to bring a major financial company like that here. Heck building a skyscraper like that we could also consolidate the HQ's of companies like HHGregg and Finish Line and Republic Airway holdings into downtown and move the jobs to downtown from the Suburbs.
Having a skyscraper that tall and with that much spaces gives Indy the chance to target major companies. CME group when they looked at Indianapolis only had the Chase Tower to choose from cause they demanded so much room.
Another great thing about this idea is even if we can't get a bunch of major corporations to relocate their HQ to the Indianapolis Exchange Center as i said before we can move some of the companies in the suburbs into Downtown.

Good lord, you clearly don't live on planet Earth do you.

What you are proposing is ludicrous and in no way feasible. Several mid-sized companies are going to collaborate together and build a shared skyscraper in DT Indianapolis? Are you sniffing glue?

What entity is going to come up with the hundreds of millions of dollars to build a 1000 ft building on spec?

Finally, do you not understand that Indiana was enticing the CME with corporate welfare to re-locate from Illinois?

Please quit embarrassing yourself by posting this nonsense.

Please don't misunderstand me: If given the choice between an empty parking lot and a 5-7 storey building, I'll choose the 5-7 storey building. However, in my heart of hearts I would love to see more high-rise construction. I agree with many of you that density and quality construction are important for the city's downtown. Yet, if Indianapolis had just built half of the proposed towers that never got beyond the drawing board this city would have a very different and much more dramatic skyline.

Those skyscrapers weren't built for a reason. Commercial occupancy rates downtown are too low to justify new construction.

It takes more than some kid with a pencil and piece of paper to get a large building constructed.

The Chase Tower is great and we don't really need anything taller. But several more 30-40 strory towers would do wonders. And what does it get you? Stronger perception that Indy is a major city. Look at the skyline coming in from east side of town. Pretty unimpressive. Look at how dense Minneapolis' skyline is...surely we could match that.

The Minneapolis/St. Paul metro area has more than a million more people than Indianapolis and a much stronger corporate presence. Their skylines are not going to be comparable.

There has to be demand for a skyscraper in order for it to be built and then the interested entity has to secure hundreds of millions in financing to begin construction.

Indy DOES need more highrises! The country's 11th largest city should have a better skyline! Lots of smaller cities have much better skylines...

City size is irrelevant.

The city population may be smaller but the metro population (which is what matters) is much, much larger.

And city/metro size alone does not determine the size of a skyline. There are many other factors that influence a city's economic climate and commercial/residential property markets.

Exactly which is what i want to change when i run for Mayor of Indianapolis.


I can't wait to watch that train wreck.

Is it just me or does anyone else think these renderings seem a bit unsophisticated. I hope this is because they are still conceptual but I’m not so sure. It seems like we've forgotten how to build in an urban setting in this city. If you notice, the sidewalks are narrow strips with large lawns buffering the buildings from the street. Instead of being in pits or strips near the curb, the trees are planted in a strange urban/suburban fashion behind the sidewalk. The buildings don't seem to be built to a consistent setback to align with other nearby buildings (this may also be due the early state of the drawings). The parking ramp on the Point building will make drivers feel like they're about to take a meandering drive through the countryside. The buildings don't respect the original grid of the city by at least referencing the original alignment of the alleys. The facade of the Axis building is broken up in unrealistic ways. In my mind, this building looks like one big structure that someone did a half-assed job of trying to make it look like 4 or 5 different buildings. Like many of you, I get so frustrated when I visit other cities (many of which are smaller) and see the quality of their infill buildings compared to ours.

Those skyscrapers weren't built for a reason. Commercial occupancy rates downtown are too low to justify new construction.

It takes more than some kid with a pencil and piece of paper to get a large building constructed.

Gee Hoosier, I wish we were all as smart as you. Actually, it's attitudes like yours that has led to Indy not fulfilling its potential. Idiot. This will no doubt result in 5 or 6 successive posts from Hoosier. You watch.

I am excited about this development, I just hope we're going to see the design go through a major refinement process.

Thank you. I agree.

Is it just me or does anyone else think these renderings seem a bit unsophisticated. I hope this is because they are still conceptual but I’m not so sure. It seems like we've forgotten how to build in an urban setting in this city. If you notice, the sidewalks are narrow strips with large lawns buffering the buildings from the street. Instead of being in pits or strips near the curb, the trees are planted in a strange urban/suburban fashion behind the sidewalk. The buildings don't seem to be built to a consistent setback to align with other nearby buildings (this may also be due the early state of the drawings). The parking ramp on the Point building will make drivers feel like they're about to take a meandering drive through the countryside. The buildings don't respect the original grid of the city by at least referencing the original alignment of the alleys. The facade of the Axis building is broken up in unrealistic ways. In my mind, this building looks like one big structure that someone did a half-assed job of trying to make it look like 4 or 5 different buildings. Like many of you, I get so frustrated when I visit other cities (many of which are smaller) and see the quality of their infill buildings compared to ours.

I'm not an architect -- but I generally would have to say that I agree with the statement about the unsophistication of the architectural designs represented. Also with the poor way of addressing the pedestrian areas along the streets and the poor landscaping and general streetscape design. I definitely am happy about the project -- but I hope there are some improvements made to the design.

I also need to say - to Indy#1 Fan and DowntownIndianapolis:

Your general enthusiasm for the city is appreciated - and sure we'd all love to see more big, tall, well designed buildings -- but both of you really seem to have no clue about the realities of the real estate market. Talking about building a 1000 foot tall building as if that is "all" that is needed in order to get several suburban companies to decide to move downtown is simply ludicrous talk. Why would these companies want to spend more money to rent their office space than they currently are paying? Do they have a reason that it makes sense for their company to be downtown? Where is their workforce located? You need to understand the realities of making a business location decision. I won't go on -- but -- before you start calling other people "idiots", you really both need to educate yourselves a lot more.

Regarding Indy being the 11th largest city:

While Indy is about the 11th or 12th largest "City" in the country, as most people on this blog should know, we are about the 29th or 30th largest Metropolitan area in the country. That is the measure that determines the real size rankings of communities across the nation. We fit in there nicely with Kansas City, Charlotte, Cincinnati, Austin, Nashville, Columbus, Sacramento, and a few others in the 1.6 million to 2.2 million population range. Our skyline holds its own pretty well with most cities in that size range. We'll probably continue to get more mid rises and a few high rises over the next decades. Continued growth of a beautiful, dense downtown with a great mix of residential, office, commercial buildings, hotels and entertainment facilities will be very ideal. With the Cityway and "Axis / Point" projects -- we are getting rid of about six square blocks of surface parking!! Those are the real killers of good, walkable urban communities.

There are still some spots in the core where some high rises could go (south of Washington between Meridian and Pennsylvania would be perfect for a nice 35 story building for example. Also along Pennsylvania across from Banker's Life Fieldhouse as well as the MSA site). I think things are going well - and becoming increasingly attractive for more and more people to want to live and visit downtown.

I might be wrong, but isn't high-rise development restricted south of the Circle to avoid casting shadows on the Monument? I always thought that was why all of the major high rises were to the north.

To Vitamin R - pertainiang to Indy's CSA population rank:

Yes, the Indianapolis CSA is listed 23rd in the list that was linked to your post --- but, as explained in the text above the table, there are some large Metropolitan Statistical Areas that are not close enough to other MSAs to allow them to form a CSA. These include San Diego, Phoenix, Tampa, Miami, Portland and possibly San Antonio that are larger than Indianapolis' CSA population. When you insert those areas into the list of largest regional areas in the US - they push Indy back to around 28th or 29th.

The following PhotoShop alteration of the Axis Building illustrates my point about the trees and sidewalks. Except for the tree pits, the entire area between the curb and the building should be sidewalk. The 15' alleys and 30' lanes that originally broke up Indy's large blocks should be re-established whenever possible. When it’s not possible, bump-ins on axis with the vacated right-of-way should be used to create natural breaks and provide for structured parking access. In recent years we have not respected the old alley and lane alignments more often than not to our detriment.

In my mind, when designers use several facades to break up the mass of a large building, great care should be taken to ensure that each portion of the building with a distinct facade function as an independent building or demarcate a different use. These facades should have realistic massing, they shouldn't wrap around a corner and only extend 20' when it is obvious that the underlying structure extends further.


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7030/6758621133_b4c04ec36e.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/64262017@N00/6758621133/)
axis (http://www.flickr.com/photos/64262017@N00/6758621133/) by hostetlermatt (http://www.flickr.com/people/64262017@N00/), on Flickr

The following PhotoShop alteration of the Axis Building illustrates my point about the trees and sidewalks. Except for the tree pits, the entire area between the curb and the building should be sidewalk. The 15' alleys and 30' lanes that originally broke up Indy's large blocks should be re-established whenever possible. When it’s not possible, bump-ins on axis with the vacated right-of-way should be used to create natural breaks and provide for structured parking access. In recent years we have not respected the old alley and lane alignments more often than not to our detriment.

In my mind, when designers use several facades to break up the mass of a large building, great care should be taken to ensure that each portion of the building with a distinct facade function as an independent building or demarcate a different use. These facades should have realistic massing, they shouldn't wrap around a corner and only extend 20' when it is obvious that the underlying structure extends further.

Agreed on the tree spaces. It also serves a practical purpose to pull the sidewalk's main path back from the curb: snow storage. Also agree on historic alley entrances to parking...see the Georgia St. ramp to Circle Centre garages, which aligns with the alley south.

Also agreed on facade design. IMO "city character" is imparted by a block of different-looking building faces. For example, the Meridian St. side of Circle Center, where what would be a monolithic mass is broken up by the preserved historic facades.

I understand a developer's wish to build a coherent whole, and his/her architect's wish to create non-monumental scale in a whole-block development. But I agree with Hoss: there's got to be a better expression of an all-new block that includes reasonable variation in material, mass, line, setback, shadow, height, and even style to differentiate sections and functions.

cjfjapan: "I might be wrong, but isn't high-rise development restricted south of the Circle to avoid casting shadows on the Monument? I always thought that was why all of the major high rises were to the north."

There are restrictions that have been put in place to limit how much shadow from a building can fall on the Circle. I don't have the detailed rules in front of me - but the plane limiting building height angles upward as you move further away from the Circle. The location I mentioned where I'd like to see a nice 35 story building is on the south side of Washington Street in the middle of the block between Meridian and Pennsylvania. I'm not sure exactly how tall of a building could be built there - but I was hoping a 30 - 35 story building might fit under the skyplane limits. It probably would have to have some kind of pointy setback as well to help reduce the distance the shadow would fall - but that would be fine with me. I'm not completely sure about the rules -- but I would hope something of a decent size could fit onto that prime lot.

A nice mixed use building would be great. Parking would need to be designed to go below and maybe six or so floors above ground on the south side of the lot, hidden from the street. It could have some commercial uses on the first and maybe second floors. Maybe six to eight floors of office use, eight to ten floors for a hotel, and then maybe 12 - 16 floors of apartments and/or condos on the top half.

I sure hope someone posts a picture of the huge "XLVI" in front of Monument Circle. I drove past last night after the Pacers game and it sure creates an iconic view as you are looking north from about a block and a half away on S. Meridian Street.

This link has a photo slide show of some of the downtown scenes including several showing the huge XLVI letters being set into position in front of Monument Circle.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120125/NEWS11/201250309/Sign-times-Super-Bowl-fans-spend-plenty?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|p

To Vitamin R - pertainiang to Indy's CSA population rank:

Yes, the Indianapolis CSA is listed 23rd in the list that was linked to your post --- but, as explained in the text above the table, there are some large Metropolitan Statistical Areas that are not close enough to other MSAs to allow them to form a CSA. These include San Diego, Phoenix, Tampa, Miami, Portland and possibly San Antonio that are larger than Indianapolis' CSA population. When you insert those areas into the list of largest regional areas in the US - they push Indy back to around 28th or 29th.

We appear to actually be # 34 in the 2010 rank of MSAs.

It always frustrates me when people run around talking about how this or that should be line with our rank as 12th largest city in the country, most notably Gil Holmes and others pushing IndyConnect, constantly repeating that line about Indy being the 12th largest city in the country, but only having the 100th biggest bus system. To me, it seems like one is either intentionally trying to deceive people about the deficiency, or they are showing a lack of understanding and sophistication, both of which undermine the public's trust in such people. To be clear, I think our transit system is a woeful embarassment that needs significant upgrades, actually a complete overhaul ideally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

As horrible as our public transportation system is, we're ranked 64th out of the top 100 largest metro areas in the US according to Time magazine and Brookings.

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2070992_2071052_2070981,00.html

http://www.brookings.edu/metro/jobs_and_transit/metro_profiles.aspx

43% of Indy homes are close enough to a bus line to use it.

the average wait for a bus is 13.3 minutes.

33% of Indy jobs are reachable by bus in 90 minutes.


We appear to actually be # 34 in the 2010 rank of MSAs.

It always frustrates me when people run around talking about how this or that should be line with our rank as 12th largest city in the country, most notably Gil Holmes and others pushing IndyConnect, constantly repeating that line about Indy being the 12th largest city in the country, but only having the 100th biggest bus system. To me, it seems like one is either intentionally trying to deceive people about the deficiency, or they are showing a lack of understanding and sophistication, both of which undermine the public's trust in such people. To be clear, I think our transit system is a woeful embarassment that needs significant upgrades, actually a complete overhaul ideally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

In light of some recent discussion about how best to deal with the conflicts between bike lanes and right turn lanes, these brief videos should be of interest. Would this work here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FlApbxLz6pA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBwMRGxtZ9k&feature=player_embedded

The issue is always going to be the vehicle. This is not to say cars are evil and bikes are good. My point is that a car is very inhospitable to bike/ped travel. The videos seem to assume that cars will stop at stop bars and wait at red lights and such. I know from daily experience that when a car sees a break in vehicle lights, they go. They will roll through red lights, stop signs and whatever may be there to control traffic. They will also pull up into crosswalks and even these bike crossings. I pass several intersections a day with no turn on red signs for right turning cars..........I always see people turning on red. When a driver approaches an intersection, they check the light, then look left for automobiles, if none are present, they go. A stop bar, sign or bike/ped is the absolute last thing on their mind.

There is no way to actually solve shared space for cars, bikes and peds. Bikes and Peds will often times break out of traffic petterns to benefit their movements. Cars will do what serves them best and promotes the least delay and frustration in their short term minds. The only way to better the situation is to build completely grade seperated bike facilities from roads. No intersections, no turning, almost like a monorail. We design all these elaborate systems to try and mesh several degrees of transportation together. All of these systems rely on people following the law and paying attention.....it just doesn't happen. There will always be a fight between cars and bikes for the road and intersections and as a result people will get into accidents and their will be deaths. As a commuter by bike, it is very sad and depressing, but very true.

Is it just me or does anyone else think these renderings seem a bit unsophisticated. I hope this is because they are still conceptual but I’m not so sure. It seems like we've forgotten how to build in an urban setting in this city. If you notice, the sidewalks are narrow strips with large lawns buffering the buildings from the street. Instead of being in pits or strips near the curb, the trees are planted in a strange urban/suburban fashion behind the sidewalk. The buildings don't seem to be built to a consistent setback to align with other nearby buildings (this may also be due the early state of the drawings). The parking ramp on the Point building will make drivers feel like they're about to take a meandering drive through the countryside. The buildings don't respect the original grid of the city by at least referencing the original alignment of the alleys. The facade of the Axis building is broken up in unrealistic ways. In my mind, this building looks like one big structure that someone did a half-assed job of trying to make it look like 4 or 5 different buildings. Like many of you, I get so frustrated when I visit other cities (many of which are smaller) and see the quality of their infill buildings compared to ours.

Thanks for coming in with a critical eye on this. I agree 100% about the sidewalks and trees. The idea of having a landscape strip and trees between the buildings and sidewalk would be similar to what's been done at the Hudson, Clevelander, Firehouse Row, The Nature Conservancy, etc., which I think represents abyssmal urban design. In many cases, there isn't enough room for the trees to grow, they block apartment windows, they don't provide any shading of the street, they don't provide a buffer between the street and the sidewalk (where there isn't on-street parking), and they don't help frame the street to encourage lower driving speeds which should be expected in a downtown. Any trees should be, as you suggest, between the main corridor of the sidewalk and the street.

However, it should be noted that the rendering of the Michigan Street view does show trees in pits nearer the curb, so perhaps they haven't gotten very far in actually making such decisions. I wish more people were more adamant in expressing concern about how our streetscapes are designed.

"Originally Posted by idyllic indy
We appear to actually be # 34 in the 2010 rank of MSAs."

Yes --- we end up sliding down to 34th or so when just the MSAs are looked at because several CSAs include two MSAs that are both larger than Indy. Places such as Washington & Baltimore, Los Angeles & Riverside, and San Francisco & San Jose end up becoming six regions in front of us in the MSA rankings while they represent only three regions in the CSA rankings. Also - Columbus, OH moves in front of Indy when you just look at the MSA population (we are in front of them when CSA population is looked at).

Couple of thoughts:

Underwhelmed by this new proposal. I too would appreciate a project a bit taller with some nice graduated setbacks. This building is essentially a super block midrise - I fear it could look like that awful residential project in dt Bloomington that was built about 6 years ago. Why not 12 stories? It's almost as if the City fears a residential high rise proposal after the MSA debacle. Don't get me wrong, losing 3 car parks (counting Cosmo II) in this area is a planners god-send, but c'mon, let's up the ante.

Also, with this much larger grocery - what will happen to Fresh Market just blocks away? Can downtown support 2 markets that close? I understand that they are totally different neighborhoods...but...

finally, I must say AUL is getting one hell of a sweat heart deal!

This link has a photo slide show of some of the downtown scenes including several showing the huge XLVI letters being set into position in front of Monument Circle.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120125/NEWS11/201250309/Sign-times-Super-Bowl-fans-spend-plenty?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|p

At XLIV in Miami, the letters were about 8' high and set out at a corner of the stadium lot, just inside the security perimeter...near the dressing and production trailers for "Dan, Shannon, Boomer, and Coach". A few people tried to take pictures, but they were way off the beaten path.

The Circle is a "wow" setting, and you can bet that NBC will prominently feature them. Hope they work 'em into the Faith Hill video opening.

The issue is always going to be the vehicle. This is not to say cars are evil and bikes are good. My point is that a car is very inhospitable to bike/ped travel. The videos seem to assume that cars will stop at stop bars and wait at red lights and such. I know from daily experience that when a car sees a break in vehicle lights, they go. They will roll through red lights, stop signs and whatever may be there to control traffic. They will also pull up into crosswalks and even these bike crossings. I pass several intersections a day with no turn on red signs for right turning cars..........I always see people turning on red. When a driver approaches an intersection, they check the light, then look left for automobiles, if none are present, they go. A stop bar, sign or bike/ped is the absolute last thing on their mind.

There is no way to actually solve shared space for cars, bikes and peds. Bikes and Peds will often times break out of traffic petterns to benefit their movements. Cars will do what serves them best and promotes the least delay and frustration in their short term minds. The only way to better the situation is to build completely grade seperated bike facilities from roads. No intersections, no turning, almost like a monorail. We design all these elaborate systems to try and mesh several degrees of transportation together. All of these systems rely on people following the law and paying attention.....it just doesn't happen. There will always be a fight between cars and bikes for the road and intersections and as a result people will get into accidents and their will be deaths. As a commuter by bike, it is very sad and depressing, but very true.

That was depressing. I don't know that I'd call this a magic bullet solution, but I also don't think we should give up and not try to make our bike lanes safer and more efficient. I agree that we have a major problem caused by driver behavior and the general mindset of not really even thinking about looking for a bicyclist or pedestrian, but posting more "no turn on red" signs, where appropriate, with some enforcement would help.

Ultimately, a mode shift that brings us closer to an omnipresence of bicyclists and peds is what will really change driver behavior as they come to expect seeing alternative users, which will in turn make our streets many times safer for these users. But how do we get to get to that point of ped/bike omnipresence when you can't encourage an increase in peds/bikes because the current situation is unsafe and uninviting? Thus, I think there is an even greater need for a place like Indy, which starts with such a low base of alternative users, to go the extra mile to make the infrastructure more safe and attractive.

On a semi-related note, it's been my observation that drivers are more often observing the red lights for right turns from Washington Street across the C.T. onto Delaware, Meridian & Illinois now that they replaced the red balls with red right arrows, which I think goes to show that getting the details of the design right really do matter in making these amenities work as safely as possible.

The issue is always going to be the vehicle. This is not to say cars are evil and bikes are good. My point is that a car is very inhospitable to bike/ped travel. The videos seem to assume that cars will stop at stop bars and wait at red lights and such. I know from daily experience that when a car sees a break in vehicle lights, they go. They will roll through red lights, stop signs and whatever may be there to control traffic. They will also pull up into crosswalks and even these bike crossings. I pass several intersections a day with no turn on red signs for right turning cars..........I always see people turning on red. When a driver approaches an intersection, they check the light, then look left for automobiles, if none are present, they go. A stop bar, sign or bike/ped is the absolute last thing on their mind.

There is no way to actually solve shared space for cars, bikes and peds. Bikes and Peds will often times break out of traffic petterns to benefit their movements. Cars will do what serves them best and promotes the least delay and frustration in their short term minds. The only way to better the situation is to build completely grade seperated bike facilities from roads. No intersections, no turning, almost like a monorail. We design all these elaborate systems to try and mesh several degrees of transportation together. All of these systems rely on people following the law and paying attention.....it just doesn't happen. There will always be a fight between cars and bikes for the road and intersections and as a result people will get into accidents and their will be deaths. As a commuter by bike, it is very sad and depressing, but very true.

I'd be more sympathetic to bicyclists' concerns if such a high percentage didn't flout the traffic laws. This is an issue cycling advocates need to address openly and vocally.

One rider just about ran me over a couple of weeks ago, without a bell or verbal warning, while I was walking ON A SIDEWALK along Pleasant Run Parkway in Irvington. The street is lightly traveled by cars and has a multi-user path alongside it (Pleasant Run Trail); there are also plenty of driveway ramps the rider could use to avoid a clearly visible pedestrian. In short, there was absolutely no reason other than general a-hole-ness for the rider to do what he did. I have had more close brushes with determined cyclists than drivers when out walking in Irvington.

Around town, I've observed more hard-riding bicyclists blowing red lights than autos; bicyclists "cheating" up in between lines of stopped or slowed cars to the head of the line (akin to cars using parking lanes to pass) and then "riding wide" and backing up car traffic after the light turns; bicyclists riding in the dark without lights and reflective clothing (analogous to cars driving without lights in the dark). Determined cyclists seem to avoid yielding to anything if it means breaking momentum (analogous to drivers doing rolling stops when turning on red or coming to a stop sign).

I wish cycling advocates would (a) admit to, and (b) work harder on policing the lawbreaking a-holes in their midst, while (c) losing the persecution complex, instead of (d) tarring all drivers with the "cars are dangerous to cyclists" brush, as in this post.

I do my best to respect cyclists when I'm driving...and expect the same courtesy from cyclists when I'm walking: If you want respect, respect others.

I used to bike everywhere, and I stopped when a friend, also an avid bicyclist died after being hit by a car. To be fair, it was my friend who ran the stop sign, not the car, so his fault.

I'll tell ya, most bicyclists try to obey the rules.. at first.. It doesn't take long to realize that obeying the rules can mean death or dismemberment. Once you come to terms with that, you start breaking all the rules and taking every opportunity to get through any given situation. That attitude quickly devolves into asshole-ness like you've described. It's a slippery slope, and I have sympathy for both bicyclist and vehicle driver.

I'd be more sympathetic to bicyclists' concerns if such a high percentage didn't flout the traffic laws. This is an issue cycling advocates need to address openly and vocally.

One rider just about ran me over a couple of weeks ago, without a bell or verbal warning, while I was walking ON A SIDEWALK along Pleasant Run Parkway in Irvington. The street is lightly traveled by cars and has a multi-user path alongside it (Pleasant Run Trail); there are also plenty of driveway ramps the rider could use to avoid a clearly visible pedestrian. In short, there was absolutely no reason other than general a-hole-ness for the rider to do what he did. I have had more close brushes with determined cyclists than drivers when out walking in Irvington.

Around town, I've observed more hard-riding bicyclists blowing red lights than autos; bicyclists "cheating" up in between lines of stopped or slowed cars to the head of the line (akin to cars using parking lanes to pass) and then "riding wide" and backing up car traffic after the light turns; bicyclists riding in the dark without lights and reflective clothing (analogous to cars driving without lights in the dark). Determined cyclists seem to avoid yielding to anything if it means breaking momentum (analogous to drivers doing rolling stops when turning on red or coming to a stop sign).

I wish cycling advocates would (a) admit to, and (b) work harder on policing the lawbreaking a-holes in their midst, while (c) losing the persecution complex, instead of (d) tarring all drivers with the "cars are dangerous to cyclists" brush, as in this post.

I do my best to respect cyclists when I'm driving...and expect the same courtesy from cyclists when I'm walking: If you want respect, respect others.

Just wanted to respond to Arenn's comment about the downtown population estimate. (I said it could be around 28,000 to 30,000 within 2 1/2 years.) I do realize that the biggest complexity to stating a number is defining the area that is considered "downtown". I just wanted to give the reasons for the number that I stated. Not a big deal - but just wanted to clarify.

Arenn: "I'm loving it, but I do think you overstate the population. I'll admit to only having looked in detail at the 2000 data, and that not including the I-65 to 16th St. corridor, but at that time there were only about ~8,000ish in the area, if you exclude the 3,000 people in jail.


Yes -- a lot of it depends on how the downtown area is defined. I based my numbers comment on the Population and Housing Characteristics Section in the Indianapolis Regional Center Plan 2020, which was completed in early 2004. It states "The Regional Center's total population in 1990 was 18,911 persons living in 11,400 housing units. In 2000 it rose to 22, 373 in 11,077 housing units. The increase in population is largely due to an approximate doubling in group quarters such as nursing homes and jails."

So yes -- there likely are 4000 or so people considered to "live" downtown who actually are in jails. This left somewhere around 18,000 people living "downtown".

The report also stated that in the first few years after the 2000 census - there were an average of about 330 new regional center housing units built each year. I believe that approximate number likely continued through the rest of the decade to 2010 - with the numerous condo and apartment projects built during that time, including the 5 - 6 projects built along E. Ohio Street; the Mill No. 9 project; the Beilouny; the Villagio; 3 Mass Ave; the Waverly; 707 North; the IUPUI student housing along the White River, etc. - so in total, there likely were a total of another 3000 or so units built by 2010. This would likely add another 4500 or so people. Of course at the same time there undoubtedly was some housing that was lost. Also - the average household size has been declining - so that hurts the total population number as well. Hopefully there still may have been a net gain of 3000 or 4000 people during the decade - so a 2010 estimate of the number of non-jailed downtown residents might be around 21,500 and around 22,000 by 2011. With the recently finished developments in late 2011 and the recently proposed projects expected to be completed by 2014 - another 2700 units may be added with another 4500 - 5000 people. That gets the number up around 26,500 to 27,000 people. If you add in the jailed people - there are likely over 30,000 people.

The definition of downtown's boundaries can vary significantly so it is hard to pin down an exact "downtown" number. The Regional Center Plan that I was looking at defines the area as I described it in my previous post -- from 16th Street on the north to the belt railroad / White River on the west to the I-65 / I-70 corridor around the east and south sides.

There are many additional residents who live very close by as well, although just outside of those boundaries. People immediately east of the interstate downtown and many in the NW part of Fountain Square are within 1.3 miles of Monument Circle. They probably consider them selves "downtown" residents - yet they don't fall into the area defined in the regional center plan. Anyway --- whatever the exact number is -- it definitely seems to continue to be growing at a decent rate - so that is definitely a good thing.

"Originally Posted by idyllic indy
We appear to actually be # 34 in the 2010 rank of MSAs."

Yes --- we end up sliding down to 34th or so when just the MSAs are looked at because several CSAs include two MSAs that are both larger than Indy. Places such as Washington & Baltimore, Los Angeles & Riverside, and San Francisco & San Jose end up becoming six regions in front of us in the MSA rankings while they represent only three regions in the CSA rankings. Also - Columbus, OH moves in front of Indy when you just look at the MSA population (we are in front of them when CSA population is looked at).

I guess it would be an interesting discussion on whether Baltimore & Washington or San Fran & San Jose should be viewed as one market/metro area or not. I guess the census believes they are distinct enough to count them separately, but have enough links to put them together as a CSA.

I'd say that some of the CSA conglomeration is a bit of a reach, including Crawfordsville, New Castle, & North Vernon with Indy. I don't even know where North Vernon is located.

At any rate, we can view Indy (# 34, 1,756,241) as on a relatively equal footing with all the MSAs with between 1.5-2.5 million people, which range from Pittsburgh at # 22 (2,356,285) to Milwaukee at # 39 (1,555,908). But clearly to be # 12, which would be similar to Boston, S.F., Phoenix, and Detroit, would be an entirely different order.

There are many additional residents who live very close by as well, although just outside of those boundaries. People immediately east of the interstate downtown and many in the NW part of Fountain Square are within 1.3 miles of Monument Circle. They probably consider them selves "downtown" residents - yet they don't fall into the area defined in the regional center plan.

I'm on the East side of the interstate, I live on Market street, I can see the Circle, the Conrad, even Lucas Oil Stadium from my front porch, along with most of the rest of the skyline from my backyard.

According to google, I'm 1.1 miles to the Circle, which is a 15 minute walk for me, yet, I apparently don't live downtown... The regional center plan boundaries are bunk.

To Vitamin R - pertainiang to Indy's CSA population rank:

Yes, the Indianapolis CSA is listed 23rd in the list that was linked to your post --- but, as explained in the text above the table, there are some large Metropolitan Statistical Areas that are not close enough to other MSAs to allow them to form a CSA. These include San Diego, Phoenix, Tampa, Miami, Portland and possibly San Antonio that are larger than Indianapolis' CSA population. When you insert those areas into the list of largest regional areas in the US - they push Indy back to around 28th or 29th.

That is true which is why I believe the CSA should be expanded to include some of the neighboring metro and micropolitan areas in Central Indiana. There is a region builder at the Indiana Department of Workforce Development that includes data such as population, density and per capita income. I've played with the program and come up with CSA configurations that range from a low of 2.2 million to 2.9 million. In the widest sense possible I came up with a region of nearly 3.4 million which included nearly all of Central Indiana.

You may already be familiar with this site. If not, here is a link:

http://www.hoosierdata.in.gov/custom_profile.asp

I just feel that our current MSA and CSA does not truly reflect the actual size and influence of Indianapolis. Beyond that it is a fun program to play with and may even be useful to some.

Those skyscrapers weren't built for a reason. Commercial occupancy rates downtown are too low to justify new construction.

It takes more than some kid with a pencil and piece of paper to get a large building constructed.


Thank you for bloviating on the obvious. However, I think you missed a two letter word I used in my post: IF. It makes for a world of difference in meaning. Furthermore, I believe most of us who post in these threads are mature, intelligent and educated enough to know why some buildings don't get built. Thank you for the contribution to the conversation.

Just wanted to respond to Arenn's comment about the downtown population estimate. (I said it could be around 28,000 to 30,000 within 2 1/2 years.) I do realize that the biggest complexity to stating a number is defining the area that is considered "downtown". I just wanted to give the reasons for the number that I stated. Not a big deal - but just wanted to clarify.

Arenn: "I'm loving it, but I do think you overstate the population. I'll admit to only having looked in detail at the 2000 data, and that not including the I-65 to 16th St. corridor, but at that time there were only about ~8,000ish in the area, if you exclude the 3,000 people in jail.


Yes -- a lot of it depends on how the downtown area is defined. I based my numbers comment on the Population and Housing Characteristics Section in the Indianapolis Regional Center Plan 2020, which was completed in early 2004. It states "The Regional Center's total population in 1990 was 18,911 persons living in 11,400 housing units. In 2000 it rose to 22, 373 in 11,077 housing units. The increase in population is largely due to an approximate doubling in group quarters such as nursing homes and jails."

So yes -- there likely are 4000 or so people considered to "live" downtown who actually are in jails. This left somewhere around 18,000 people living "downtown".

The report also stated that in the first few years after the 2000 census - there were an average of about 330 new regional center housing units built each year. I believe that approximate number likely continued through the rest of the decade to 2010 - with the numerous condo and apartment projects built during that time, including the 5 - 6 projects built along E. Ohio Street; the Mill No. 9 project; the Beilouny; the Villagio; 3 Mass Ave; the Waverly; 707 North; the IUPUI student housing along the White River, etc. - so in total, there likely were a total of another 3000 or so units built by 2010. This would likely add another 4500 or so people. Of course at the same time there undoubtedly was some housing that was lost. Also - the average household size has been declining - so that hurts the total population number as well. Hopefully there still may have been a net gain of 3000 or 4000 people during the decade - so a 2010 estimate of the number of non-jailed downtown residents might be around 21,500 and around 22,000 by 2011. With the recently finished developments in late 2011 and the recently proposed projects expected to be completed by 2014 - another 2700 units may be added with another 4500 - 5000 people. That gets the number up around 26,500 to 27,000 people. If you add in the jailed people - there are likely over 30,000 people.

The definition of downtown's boundaries can vary significantly so it is hard to pin down an exact "downtown" number. The Regional Center Plan that I was looking at defines the area as I described it in my previous post -- from 16th Street on the north to the belt railroad / White River on the west to the I-65 / I-70 corridor around the east and south sides.

There are many additional residents who live very close by as well, although just outside of those boundaries. People immediately east of the interstate downtown and many in the NW part of Fountain Square are within 1.3 miles of Monument Circle. They probably consider them selves "downtown" residents - yet they don't fall into the area defined in the regional center plan. Anyway --- whatever the exact number is -- it definitely seems to continue to be growing at a decent rate - so that is definitely a good thing.

Has anyone checked out Census Block Data, or are the block boundaries a mess?

^^ I think that is what Arenn was using when he was discussing what he thought was an accurate downtown population estimate. It just depends on which census blocks you count as part of downtown.

Just came through the new Artsgarden connection to the Hyatt / PNC building. Very Nice! The walkway follows the angled courtyard facing side of the building's "NE wing" and has very nice windows overlooking the new courtyard, with a view of the Indiana Theater, the Colts Grill, and the State Capitol and Government Center. As you arrive in the interior atrium part of the building, there is an attractive little second floor "lobby" with a nice, ringed seating area. Overall -- it looks very nice - and it seems like its always been there because it blends in perfectly with the existing parts of the Artsgarden.

All of the rich people staying at the Conrad will probably be using this walkway to get to the Stadium area - and they should be decently impressed.

Pan Am Plaza looks pretty good. (Not great) The work to improve some of the cracked cement and brickwork has improved things -- but it really would have needed a lot more money and effort to fix it up to a higher, "almost like new" standard. The ESPN studio set-up looks good there. I think there should be enough people walking around in that area that it won't be real easy to see the full condition of the surface. Primarily - I think it just needs a good cleaning with a sidewalk sweeper or something to pick up the sand and small construction debris and some of the dead weeds that are lying on the surface and filling some of the cracks. After that - it should be decent.

BTW -- the scaffolding structure for the "launch pad" for the zip lines looks pretty scary. Lets hope there aren't any 50 mph wind bursts that come sweeping across from the west. There are tons of guy wires supporting it -- but still. It'll be scary to see a bunch of people climbing around on top of that thing.

I just pulled the 2010 data via the New York Times tool: http://projects.nytimes.com/census/2010/map

If you look at the area inside the inner loop/White River, there are 12,725 people. I don't know if the NYT excluded group quarters population or not, but if not, subtract off your jail population and we're right back around 8K

Maybe some of the difference is that there were a few other areas included in the Indianapolis Regional Center Plan's (RCP) demographic data. They include everything south of 16th street, from I-65 on the west to the Monon trail on the east, so that adds a bunch of people. That area includes a lot of mid rise apartments along Meridian, Pennsylvania and Delaware. The RCP also includes the neighborhood south of the old GM Stamping plant. I don't know how many people are added in those two areas, but probably several thousand. Defining the downtown with specific census tracts / blocks is the only way to get a consistent area that will allow the ability to track the numbers over time in that defined area.

^^ I think that is what Arenn was using when he was discussing what he thought was an accurate downtown population estimate. It just depends on which census blocks you count as part of downtown.

Have to admit I had good laugh from his post mentioning the jail population.

Right. I believe the Indy downtown numbers have long been inflated because of including adjoining census tracts that extend far beyond downtown. This wouldn't matter except that in comparisons with other cities, the gigantic definition of "downtown" makes Indy look way better than it is.

FYI: My numbers equate to only around 2,300/sq.mi.

I just walked the entire Superbowl area. (slow day for me) and wow.. this will be an exciting place.. I walked under the workers testing the ziplines. It's interesting how they can make it look boring! It'll be much different with music and lights and crowds etc. of course. indystar.com has video of them testing it, you'll see what I mean.

Started a new thread for Block 400:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1482645

No new info that wasn't posted in this thread the last couple of days, but I did convert the PDFs so that they're viewable directly in the thread.

re. zip lines:

Like I mentioned earlier --- just walking up the ten flights of stairs leading to the top of the zip line scaffolding seems like it will be scary enough. Then to take off from 85 feet in the air. I think it will be hilarious to watch the scared people freak out when they get to the top of this structure. (and yes -- if I end up doing it I'll probably fall into that freaked out category as well.)

Summary from today's HPI Daily Wire --
RTW DERAILING TRANSIT BILL:
The contentious "right to work" battle that has ground the Indiana House to a halt also is derailing legislation to boost mass transit in Central Indiana (Indianapolis Star). House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Jeff Espich is leaving language in the transit bill that Democrats see as a poison pill for workers. That could kill the legislation because Espich likely needs their votes to pass the bill out of committee by Friday's deadline. Democrats and transit advocates have three days to change Espich's mind, which seems unlikely. "It's my bill," said Espich, RUniondale. "If the Democrats don't like it, they can file their own bill." Three weeks ago, the way ahead seemed much clearer. Indianapolis Mayor Greg Ballard headlined a long list of advocates who testified at a Jan. 6 hearing on the legislation. Also endorsed by Gov. Mitch Daniels in his State of the State address, the legislation would fund the Central Indiana Transit Task Force's 10-year, $1.3 billion overhaul to double the size of the IndyGo bus service and add train service from Noblesville to Downtown Indianapolis. Back then, a potential obstacle seemed surmountable.

Couple of thoughts:

Also, with this much larger grocery - what will happen to Fresh Market just blocks away? Can downtown support 2 markets that close? I understand that they are totally different neighborhoods...but...




I worked at the Fresh Market for over a year, and only left that place about 4 months ago. The 54th and College Store is that company's number 3 store out of about 100 to 120 locations. I remember the one Christmas weekend i worked there, in 2010, mind in you, in the middle of tough times, did 60 some thousand, just in produce .... and the store as a whole has had many six figure days. People used to come in from brown county, seymour, Muncie, you name it. So i don't think that will be an issue. There's a decent amount of distance between those locations too. I would be more worried that the new, 'cool' prototype marsh will out compete the omalia's location on Alabama street, the same way The Nordstrom Rack has nullified the actual Nordstrom Department store. It might not be so bad if keystone had some highrise apartments with some density, but as of now that company has gotten itself in a bind.

Assuming this development is successful, which I'm sure it will be, other than design issues, the integrity and massing, all have the potential to make this a poster project for the city, and i think if this can be pulled off, you begin to have to ask yourself and companies like marsh, office depot, target, and other big box retailers why they would, or if they would, be interested in developing the same mass projects at say broad ripple ave and Keystone. Those parking lots behind Glendale between 62nd and kessler would be perfect, imo, for a few ten story apartment buildings, Unfortunately though the city just allowed approval for the shell gas station that had been sitting unused there for three or four years, to be redeveloped, as .... get this another gas station.

Summary from today's HPI Daily Wire --
RTW DERAILING TRANSIT BILL:
The contentious "right to work" battle that has ground the Indiana House to a halt also is derailing legislation to boost mass transit in Central Indiana (Indianapolis Star). House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Jeff Espich is leaving language in the transit bill that Democrats see as a poison pill for workers. That could kill the legislation because Espich likely needs their votes to pass the bill out of committee by Friday's deadline. Democrats and transit advocates have three days to change Espich's mind, which seems unlikely. "It's my bill," said Espich, RUniondale. "If the Democrats don't like it, they can file their own bill." Three weeks ago, the way ahead seemed much clearer. Indianapolis Mayor Greg Ballard headlined a long list of advocates who testified at a Jan. 6 hearing on the legislation. Also endorsed by Gov. Mitch Daniels in his State of the State address, the legislation would fund the Central Indiana Transit Task Force's 10-year, $1.3 billion overhaul to double the size of the IndyGo bus service and add train service from Noblesville to Downtown Indianapolis. Back then, a potential obstacle seemed surmountable.

Very Frustrating!!! Both side need to come together on this bill.

Espich seems to be lightening a little. Guess we will know tomorrow starting at 10am if he is going to play nice or cram it up our nose....

now that Right to Work has passed lets start welcoming the businesses from our neighbors Ill-Annoy/Michigan/Ohio and lets hope Mitch is smart enough to land them in Indianapolis
More Jobs=more people for the city.

I didn't know there was a Fresh Market just "blocks away" from the Michigan St and Senate Ave site of the proposed new Marsh. Where is it? Or are you talking about the Fresh Market at 54th and College. If so -- that is about six miles away -- not a few blocks.

I didn't mean Fresh Mrarket - meant Marsh/Omalias. Sorry

I didn't mean Fresh Market - I meant Omalias

Oh, OK. That explains it. Thanks Cory!

I didn't mean Fresh Market - I meant Omalias

They said they are keeping O'Malia's open, its one of their top performing stores.

Im not particularly happy about RTW either way. Frankly, I have never had a union job so I cant say how I personally feel about it. The data doesnt suggest either way, to me, that this was worth all the bruised feelings.

Im just happy to have at least a day to get some of the other quality of life type of bills an opportunity to be focused on before they are dead.

I think RTW was more about political ego and power than anything. Unions are a very strong Democratic backer and Republicans, while in control, are doing whatever they can to remove voting strongholds for Democrats....ie education, unions, less city and town power..........not an endorsement of any political party, just saying.

Lets go transit!

They said they are keeping O'Malia's open, its one of their top performing stores.

I'd be much more confident that the Marsh on Alabama would remain open if the new store had a different operator. I understand that the store on Alabama is apparently one of Marsh's top performers, but will that remain the case when they open a bigger store just six blocks away. Here's the big question, who is going to shop at the new Marsh that doesn't currently shop at the existing Marsh? Or said another way, what stores is the new Marsh going to take business from other than the existing Marsh? The 500 new housing units will only represent a tiny drop in the bucket of this Marsh's business. (If 500 housing units could come anywhere near supporting a grocery store, we'd have 6 or 8 or more grocers downtown.)

If it's a priority that this site be housing a 2nd grocery store donwtown, and not just a replacment grocery, then the City's project agreement needs to include a requirement that both stores remain open for a certain number of years, perhaps equal to the length of time it takes to pay off the TIF subsidy going into the project.

Right to work is about one thing: money. Unions (perhaps after Wall Street, which supports both parties) are the top donors to the Democratic party. It's clear the Dems know who the paymasters are. Look at the occupations, walk outs, and recall efforts in Wisconsin, the initiative drive in Ohio, and now two years of walk outs in Indiana. Have the Democrats ever gone to the mat like this on any other issue? Not that I'm aware of.

On the flip side, the Republicans would love to cut off the money supply to their political opponents. It's that simple.

The unions IMO made the same mistake as the religious right in aligning themselves with a political party. Now both of them are rightly seen as basically party instruments.

Ball State economist Michael Hicks (a very conservative, free market style economist) did a meta-study on RTW and found that it didn't make much different good or bad.

Other than the UAW (a special beast), I think the unions in Indy are on board with the program. There are always big public sector construction projects here that employ lots of union labor. The unions know that if the golden goose dies, a lot of their jobs die with it. Local leaders have decided to basically play ball with the unions through PLAs, etc. In return, you don't see crap like you do in Chicago with the notorious McCormick Place unions, a six year strike at the Congress Hotel, and not-infrequent trade strikes that shut down lots of jobs. I don't think there's been a major or important strike in metro Indy in a quite a long time. Overall there seems to be a win-win here.

I will say that I think unions are probably the entity in America that has least updated itself to the modern economy. The unions inevitably want to fight to keep things they way they were decades ago. Things like pure seniority systems and arcane work rules just don't play well with the modern economy. I think companies are more willing to pay decent wages than you think. It's all the other crap that kills them. I think unions really need to rethink their role in the economy, particularly in addressing the noted shortage in skilled trades that I've seen widely written about.

:-(


Transit bill didn't make it out of House committee

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120126/NEWS05/120126027/Transit-bill-dies-House-committee?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

email received today in response to email I sent in support of the transit bill --
Thank you for taking the time to share your opinion with me concerning HB 1073, Public Mass Transportation. Constituent input is important when determining what legislation to support or oppose during the legislation sessions.

I am in strong support of this legislation. Thanks to community feedback from constituents such as you, I have determined that this legislation should be broadened to the state level. Currently, I am working in committee to change the language of the bill to consider statewide funding.

Once again thank you for taking the time to contact me. If you have further questions or concerns please do not hesitate to contact me.

Sincerely,
Sheila Klinker
State Representative
District 27

from Twitter message yesterday; I heard a more detailed report on the radio this morning --

@indyJonMurray
RT @scottelliott_in: Bill allowing schools to teach creation science passes committee in the senate 8-2.


(This will retain young people in the state and attract new residents, businesses and tourists.)

I think I posted something about this a few days ago -- but just as a reminder --- There is a show on WFYI tonight at 9:00 pm that I think will be very interesting. Its called "Naptown to Super City". It is a documentary produced by the Indianapolis Star and WFYI talking about how Indianapolis' leaders gambled on an uprecedented strategy a few decades ago to promote civic development through the promotion of sports. For those of you who are fairly young and don't know much about what Indy was like back in the 60s and 70's -- you should find this pretty eye-opening. It has seen quite a lot of change over the past 40+ years. I'm looking forward to watching.

jjgn --- re. Creation Science: "(This will retain young people in the state and attract new residents, businesses and tourists.)

I can't tell if you are serious or not. Maybe you could use a "rolling eyes" smiley face if you are being facetious. Thanks. :)

Creationism is already taught - in CHURCH and private, religious schools!!
This is the religious rights way of ensuring that people who don't go to church are indoctrined regardless. Creationism has absolutely no place in public school and I am appalled that this is even being debated when there are so many other items that need addressed. :(

jjgn --- re. Creation Science: "(This will retain young people in the state and attract new residents, businesses and tourists.)
I can't tell if you are serious or not. ...

Not serious. I'm sad, ashamed and want to move away.

I am posting this in this thread because, imo, this kind of action is contrary to good development in Indianapolis.
from Howey --
Creation bill passes Senate panel INDIANAPOLIS - An Indiana Senate committee on Wednesday endorsed teaching creationism in public schools, despite pleas from scientists and religious leaders to keep religion out of science classrooms (Associated Press). Senate Bill 89 allows school corporations to authorize “the teaching of various theories concerning the origin of life” and specifically mentions “creation science” as one such theory. State Sen. Scott Schneider, R-Indianapolis, who voted for the measure, said if there are many theories about life’s origins, students should be taught all of them. But John Staver, professor of chemistry and science education at Purdue University, said evolution is the only theory of life that relies on empirical evidence from scientific investigations. “Creation science is not science,” Staver said. “It is unquestionably a statement of a specific religion.” The Rev. Charles Allen, head of Grace Unlimited, an Indianapolis campus ministry, said students would be served better by teaching religion comparatively, rather than trying to “smuggle it in” to a science course. The Republican-controlled Senate Education Committee nevertheless voted 8-2 to send the legislation to the full Senate.

What in the hell is going on in this state....good crap!

Another ridiculous legislative proposal. Just add it to the stupid column along with the proposal to re-introduce prayer in public schools and the proposal to regulate the singing of the National Anthem.

I'd be much more confident that the Marsh on Alabama would remain open if the new store had a different operator. I understand that the store on Alabama is apparently one of Marsh's top performers, but will that remain the case when they open a bigger store just six blocks away. Here's the big question, who is going to shop at the new Marsh that doesn't currently shop at the existing Marsh? Or said another way, what stores is the new Marsh going to take business from other than the existing Marsh? The 500 new housing units will only represent a tiny drop in the bucket of this Marsh's business. (If 500 housing units could come anywhere near supporting a grocery store, we'd have 6 or 8 or more grocers downtown.)

If it's a priority that this site be housing a 2nd grocery store donwtown, and not just a replacment grocery, then the City's project agreement needs to include a requirement that both stores remain open for a certain number of years, perhaps equal to the length of time it takes to pay off the TIF subsidy going into the project.

You make some great points there. I was just repeating what Marsh had stated concering the 400 Bolck development when this first broke. Personally, I think we would need a significant population increase in the D/T area in order to support two stores. I suppose time will tell on this one.

Transit isn't dead for the session, but its going to take some luck to get it all the way there.

Never give up!

Transit isn't dead for the session, but its going to take some luck to get it all the way there.

Never give up!

All I can think is that somehow while the Democrats were gone, the Oklahoma State Legislature took over the Capitol. (They're the only ones more backward than ours.)

In the meantime, the apparent expectation by our Okie-ana legislature is that we will stand on the streetcorner and pray for a bus to come.

Grr.

Just watched the "Naptown to Super City" special.

An amazing transformation.

Transit isn't dead for the session, but its going to take some luck to get it all the way there.

Never give up!

It's interesting that it was a Republican state senator who authored the transit legislation, our Republican Governor and two Republican mayors were outspoken proponents of the bill. while it was the Democrats who kept this bill from progressing out of committee. Their reasoning, they don't support a worker's right to choose.

I know, I know, that's probably not a fair characterization of the issue but I do think it's an interesting turn of events. I would have never thought that it would be the Democrats preventing transit legislation from moving forward.

Yes --- that "Naptown to Super City" video was an amazing story. Its good to have all of that interesting information recorded as an incredibly important part of Indianapolis' history. It almost made me a little teary-eyed a few times I have to admit. Great stuff! It is interesting to think about all of the fortunate twists of fate that seemed to spin in the right direction at the right time. Things may have been quite different if that telethon to keep the Pacers wasn't successful back in the late 70's. I'm sure it would have been much more difficult to get Lucas Oil Stadium built if we had drafted Ryan Leaf instead of Peyton and had been on a decade long drought of playoff games instead of heading into the Super Bowl in the 06 - 07 timeframe when the Stadium financing plan was moving forward. And you also realize how fortunate it was that the City decided to build the original Dome before we had a team. If we didn't have that facility in place -- it would have been much less likely that we could have worked out the successful arrangement with the Colts. That was interesting also that we had very fortunately and luckily decided that the seats at the stadium should be blue and white. For those of you who didn't see the special - when Bob Irsay walked into the stadium to check it out before deciding to move to Indy - he was stunned to see the beautiful blue and white seats and felt that it was meant to be. This may have been as big of a reason as any why he decided to go to Indy instead of going to Phoenix, which was the other leading candidate city for the team. I believe the video of the show will be available soon on either the Indy Star or the WFYI website.

I cannot believe nobody on this forum has mentioned the lugar redevelopment or central warehouse conversion lately. Both of those projects have really taken off.

To be fair about the creationism issue as well as other issues like sex ed, all sides really have to be presented in order for the individual to make up their own mind. It is just as outragous to teach evolutionism as the ONLY option for public students - that violates the students, and the parents first ammendment rights if they happen to be religious. Conclusions should be reached in the mind when all evidence is gathered first, then a conclusion made. Leaving out any known theory is absurd.

... To be fair about the creationism issue as well as other issues like sex ed, all sides really have to be presented in order for the individual to make up their own mind. It is just as outragous to teach evolutionism as the ONLY option for public students - that violates the students, and the parents first ammendment rights if they happen to be religious. Conclusions should be reached in the mind when all evidence is gathered first, then a conclusion made. Leaving out any known theory is absurd.

Because there is no such thing as geology or astronomy so the earth might be a few thousands years old.

It's interesting that it was a Republican state senator who authored the transit legislation, our Republican Governor and two Republican mayors were outspoken proponents of the bill. while it was the Democrats who kept this bill from progressing out of committee. Their reasoning, they don't support a worker's right to choose.

I know, I know, that's probably not a fair characterization of the issue but I do think it's an interesting turn of events. I would have never thought that it would be the Democrats preventing transit legislation from moving forward.

I wouldn't say Mitch was for it at all, it just didn't hurt him politically to say people should be able to chose.

I did notice the Lugar development has takin shape. I hate how it is oriented and how much parkign is associated with it, but it will be decent fill in. the 1010 central work is moving along. Why is the setback for the new building further back than the existing building?

You all might find this of interest:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120127/OPINION03/201270342/Gilbert-remains-bullish-D?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

I find it interesting to see a Detroit billionaire investing tons of his own money in downtown Detroit. When is the last time that happened in Indy? Today, it's much more likely that Indy's richest dudes are finding ways to pull subsidies out of downtown, rather than invest their own money in it.

Because there is no such thing as geology or astronomy so the earth might be a few thousands years old.

Some people believe so and so what? Technically everything is a theory and nothing is certain... even carbon dating. The point I was trying to prove is that the forcing of science upon people can be just as offensive as the forcing of religion. Texas schools offer both worldviews and they are the fastest growing state in the nation. They also attract masses of young people. Im one for letting people decide their own beliefs. Yours should be respected but so should everyone elses

You all might find this of interest:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120127/OPINION03/201270342/Gilbert-remains-bullish-D?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

I find it interesting to see a Detroit billionaire investing tons of his own money in downtown Detroit. When is the last time that happened in Indy? Today, it's much more likely that Indy's richest dudes are finding ways to pull subsidies out of downtown, rather than invest their own money in it.

Yes, but Detroit is in a much different situation. They are in the odd fortunate to be so depressed stage. People can buy for cheap and turn around quick. There is an edgy grit and possibility of great ROI. Indy is established in many ways. Indy has to worry about businesses leaving and competing against similar cities. Detroit can go all out for whatever.

I did notice the Lugar development has takin shape. I hate how it is oriented and how much parkign is associated with it, but it will be decent fill in. the 1010 central work is moving along. Why is the setback for the new building further back than the existing building?
Interesting that you don't like the orientation of The Braxton. I think it's wonderful. The new road off of Ft. Wayne actually puts Lugar Tower on the street grid instead of having a big grass front lawn. They weren't going to build this without a bunch of parking so I'm ok with the lots given that they're screened from Ft. Wayne. If I remember correctly, the net surface parking is lower than it was when that land was just a huge parking lot for Lugar Tower.

I do wish they included some retail space along Ft. Wayne. Otherwise I'm pretty pleased with The Braxton overall.

You all might find this of interest:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120127/OPINION03/201270342/Gilbert-remains-bullish-D?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|p

I find it interesting to see a Detroit billionaire investing tons of his own money in downtown Detroit. When is the last time that happened in Indy? Today, it's much more likely that Indy's richest dudes are finding ways to pull subsidies out of downtown, rather than invest their own money in it.

The way the city gives away money, why would a red blooded capitalist invest what he reasonbly thinks the city can do for him?

FYI: I'm noticing pretty good press about Indy as a Superbowl host city. That kind of worries me. I always prefer to keep expectations low :)

I hope we continue to have no snow and moderate weather. If that happens, I think it will be awesome.

Some people believe so and so what? Technically everything is a theory and nothing is certain... even carbon dating. The point I was trying to prove is that the forcing of science upon people can be just as offensive as the forcing of religion. Texas schools offer both worldviews and they are the fastest growing state in the nation. They also attract masses of young people. Im one for letting people decide their own beliefs. Yours should be respected but so should everyone elses
Enjoy your trip down the 6,000-year-old Grand Canyon. Texas ??

Interesting that you don't like the orientation of The Braxton. I think it's wonderful. The new road off of Ft. Wayne actually puts Lugar Tower on the street grid instead of having a big grass front lawn. They weren't going to build this without a bunch of parking so I'm ok with the lots given that they're screened from Ft. Wayne. If I remember correctly, the net surface parking is lower than it was when that land was just a huge parking lot for Lugar Tower.

I do wish they included some retail space along Ft. Wayne. Otherwise I'm pretty pleased with The Braxton overall.

It is very possible I am just remembering wrong........very possible. I will have to look back.

Speaking of media attention for Indy's Super Bowl -- here's a link to a story that was in USA Today about why Indy is a desirable Super Bowl city. The 1 /27 edition also had a cover story that filled large parts of two pages on Super Bowls in northern cities. I couldn't get the link to that story to work on this post though.


http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2012/01/surpriseindianapolis-highly-desirable-super-bowl-city-forbes-super-bowl-xlvi-new-york-giants-new-england-patriots/1

I drove by the City Way site yesterday on my way home and they have the "visitors center for potential renters" building set up across South Street where people can stop in and learn about the features of the community and pick up brochures, etc. They have two very nice large screen televisions that you can see through the doors from outside showing a continuous video of what the complex will be like. The video is pretty impressive. I didn't go in because the center had closed already -- but they did leave the videos running inside.

Speaking of media attention for Indy's Super Bowl -- here's a link to a story that was in USA Today about why Indy is a desirable Super Bowl city. The 1 /27 edition also had a cover story that filled large parts of two pages on Super Bowls in northern cities. I couldn't get the link to that story to work on this post though.


http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2012/01/surpriseindianapolis-highly-desirable-super-bowl-city-forbes-super-bowl-xlvi-new-york-giants-new-england-patriots/1

Nice to have such positive feedback and outlooks. I sure hope it pays off. I love the part about transportation convenience being a big part...cough cough mass transit!

Bags are packed, ticket to leave at 5:30AM from Austin, routing through Houston and will be in Indy at 10:10AM tomorrow. Park and ride passes printed.... and PARTY TIME:cheers::cheers::cheers:

Had to sneak off of work and do the work remote option for a few days. I'll be downtown at least 6 of the next 9 days all day. Bringing about $2600 with me and fun fun fun. :banana::banana::banana:


HOWEVER: I will not take kindly to the "right to work" protesters who are now in the super bowl village protesting this morning in front of St Lukes church. That is one thing I won't put up with if its near me and affecting my time of enjoyment etc...

Bags are packed, ticket to leave at 5:30AM from Austin, routing through Houston and will be in Indy at 10:10AM tomorrow. Park and ride passes printed.... and PARTY TIME:cheers::cheers::cheers:

Had to sneak off of work and do the work remote option for a few days. I'll be downtown at least 6 of the next 9 days all day. Bringing about $2600 with me and fun fun fun. :banana::banana::banana:


HOWEVER: I will not take kindly to the "right to work" protesters who are now in the super bowl village protesting this morning in front of St Lukes church. That is one thing I won't put up with if its near me and affecting my time of enjoyment etc...

Welcome, and have a great time.

Just want to say that my partner has been involved heavily with some of the people who have come from out of town to work on the Super Bowl. He reports that he has gotten nothing but enthusiastic feedback concerning Indianapolis and its preparations. He said they are absolutely amazed and highly impressed with the city. More good news!

With Super Bowl, city seeks to distinguish itself

Interesting story from the IBJ about some of the activities that Indy is doing with this year's Super Bowl - describing how several of the events may become legacy events for future host cities to emulate.

From the article:

Robert Tuchman, president of New York-based event planning firm Elite Experiences, said Indianapolis has done exactly the right thing for a cold-weather city: have a constant stream of activities.

“I’ve noticed more events during this Super Bowl than really during any other Super Bowl,” said Tuchman, whose firm is helping to host the Maxim magazine parties on Feb. 4 and 5. “They’ve really tried to make sure there’s enough going on for the corporations coming into town, as opposed to other cities just banking on people just picking up a set of golf clubs and going golfing.”

Those activities include concerts, nightly lighting and pyrotechnic shows, the Super Dash competition for fans and stadium tours—as well as the usual downtown events such as symphony concerts and an Indiana Pacers game.

And for the NFL’s most important guests—major sponsors, league executives and team owners—Union Station has been converted into the lodge-like NFL House. It will function as a drop-in-anytime hospitality center—so long as you have an invitation and plunk down $400 a day—to get unlimited drinks and snacks, play at game tables, watch celebrity chefs or mix with NFL stars past and present.

Future host cities, Tuchman said, “they’re going to have to emulate a lot of this kind of stuff. The hospitality center, some of the other things."

Indianapolis has several firsts about its hosting effort. It “pre-funded” its Super Bowl bid with $25 million in commitments from corporate donors, something no other city has done. Those donations helped transform Georgia Street into a pedestrian walkway, complete with canopies to keep off the snow and fire pits to push out the cold.

The city recruited an 8,000-person army of volunteers—and then solicited other community members to make each of them a scarf to keep warm during the Super Bowl festivities. It will also have hosting “quarterbacks” who will roam around downtown with giant flags on their backs and tablet computers in their hands, ready to answer any visitor’s question.


Full article:

http://www.ibj.com/with-super-bowl-city-seeks-to-distinguish-itself/PARAMS/article/32241

I cannot believe nobody on this forum has mentioned the lugar redevelopment or central warehouse conversion lately. Both of those projects have really taken off.

To be fair about the creationism issue as well as other issues like sex ed, all sides really have to be presented in order for the individual to make up their own mind. It is just as outragous to teach evolutionism as the ONLY option for public students - that violates the students, and the parents first ammendment rights if they happen to be religious. Conclusions should be reached in the mind when all evidence is gathered first, then a conclusion made. Leaving out any known theory is absurd.

Um, you do realize however that "creationism" as a theory doesn't meet even the most basic scientific requirements and therefore has absolutely NO place in a public-funded school. Unlike evolution, which lets be frank, is still only stated as a theory because of the power of the Catholic Church, it is all based off the writings of religious scripture and has no scientific facts to support! This is an attempt by the right to get religion taught in schools. Much different than sex ed...

And yes, Lugar is looking great!! I can't wait to see what happens with Barton after this is completed. Further, Central Warehouse is going to really breath life into that corridor!

If this forum is going to devolve into religious bickering, we will all hate each other by the end of it. Religion, as with politics, is a hard topic to debate

PAN AM PLAZA...

Were they planning to put flags on the flagpoles on pan am plaza? As of a couple days ago a news story showed the plaza with the ESPN stuff but no flags were on the poles... I really hope so. more color to see.

If this forum is going to devolve into religious bickering, we will all hate each other by the end of it. Religion, as with politics, is a hard topic to debate

It is hard to have a rational debate when one premise is not founded in rational thought, and thus actually arguing about it is, to a degree, irrational. Necessary in some settings... but still irrational. With that being said:

No religious theory should ever be substituted for science in the class room. If you want to teach your own children about your beliefs; take them to church. If you want your child to get an education; send them to school.

Please don't waste my tax dollars on ideology. World religion courses are fine because they teach within a broad sociological context and teach about the world in doing so. Substituting untestable religious ideas for science is simply wasting my tax dollars.

Would we ever consider substituting science for a Native American's explanation? How bout a Buddhist's explanation? How bout an African tribe's explanation? How bout a Scientologist's explanation?
Most wouldn't even consider it and these are all just as valid explanations as christian "creationism".

I don't mean to continue to stir the pot, but this is important to who we are as a state. We can still have strongly rooted religious values, whatever they might be, but we need to draw the line and show that we are serious about clearly defining the role of government in our lives. This is beyond the scope of what the government is here to do.

***For the sake of sanity, civility, and the purpose of this thread I will not comment any further or respond to other comments on this subject.***

HOWEVER: I will not take kindly to the "right to work" protesters who are now in the super bowl village protesting this morning in front of St Lukes church. That is one thing I won't put up with if its near me and affecting my time of enjoyment etc...

Yes, God forbid pro-worker advocates interrupt your enjoyment of the world's largest corporate orgy.

Democracy can't get in the way of drunken debauchery.

Yes, God forbid pro-worker advocates interrupt your enjoyment of the world's largest corporate orgy.

Democracy can't get in the way of drunken debauchery.

And again your liberal garbage gets in the way of your thinking.

This is about the SUPER BOWL. Not Right to Work so the protestors better not screw this up.

And again your liberal garbage gets in the way of your thinking.

This is about the SUPER BOWL. Not Right to Work so the protestors better not screw this up.

I'm afraid that's the right to free speech my friend. So long as they do not disrupt others or break any laws, then they are fine. They are Hoosiers, and have far more of a claim to the plazas and streets than any tourist or sponsor.

Would it be distasteful? Yes, but this is a very serious issue to them.

Just finished watching Naptown to Super City. It was really, really great. Although the Star refreshes their page automagically every 15 minutes to recycle ads and thus blows up the video. Nice job fellas.

I was thinking this might come across very boosterish. But honestly, I thought while a few areas were over the top, the tone was right on. Honestly, it was pretty amazing to see the journey of the city.

When you compare Indy to cities like Cincinnati and such, you've always got to begin with this in mind: Indy started with virtually nothing and built something, and in the modern era. It's a record not too many cities can claim, especially in the Frost Belt.

And again your liberal garbage gets in the way of your thinking.

And... Blocked. Not for political reasons, but because intelligent discussion demands respect for your adversary. I might not agree with everything said on here, but no respect is lost from rigorous debate on the merits. No matter what your point is you will always lose when you use overly charged propaganda punchlines to try to make the other party feel small. Those tactics tell everyone else that you don't have a good argument and that you are not able or willing to listen to the other position. You have already made up your mind and have chosen to be rude instead of defending your stance. You wreck your own credibility and you will never change anyone's mind with those tactics.

I drove by the City Way site yesterday on my way home and they have the "visitors center for potential renters" building set up across South Street where people can stop in and learn about the features of the community and pick up brochures, etc. They have two very nice large screen televisions that you can see through the doors from outside showing a continuous video of what the complex will be like. The video is pretty impressive. I didn't go in because the center had closed already -- but they did leave the videos running inside.

Nice, thanks for heads up.

Just finished watching Naptown to Super City. It was really, really great. Although the Star refreshes their page automagically every 15 minutes to recycle ads and thus blows up the video. Nice job fellas.

I was thinking this might come across very boosterish. But honestly, I thought while a few areas were over the top, the tone was right on. Honestly, it was pretty amazing to see the journey of the city.

When you compare Indy to cities like Cincinnati and such, you've always got to begin with this in mind: Indy started with virtually nothing and built something, and in the modern era. It's a record not too many cities can claim, especially in the Frost Belt.

Back in the early 80's, one of the few street-level downtown restaurants was J. Pierpont's on East Market. When dining there, it was always possible to park a block or less away on the newly-bricked corridor. Coming from the East Coast, I preferred late dining...730 seating. By the time my companion(s) and I were done with dessert, typically the whole waitstaff was standing around waiting for us to leave. At 845 or 9pm.

This is a cultural norm that I am glad has changed, though I do miss easy parking downtown. And I am fuddy-duddy enough to miss dress-code dining. There's always Red Key.:)

Demo Work started up again out of nowhere at the Uptown site. I walked out the door yesterday morning to that pleasant surprise. There's still one house being rented at the 50th street side of the block, but after this every thing else shall have been cleared for development.

http://www.universetoday.com/93053/rocket-carrier-causes-bridge-collapse-in-kentucky/#more-93053

Unreal.

From what I understand, this is a trailer for the light show. Unbelievably bad place to locate it. This has the potential to ruin the most photographed spot in the city. Not a good look for Indy and I believe details like this matter greatly.

Photos by friends on Facebook:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7029/6776323829_054126e063_o.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7152/6776325157_f243de981c_o.jpg

http://www.universetoday.com/93053/rocket-carrier-causes-bridge-collapse-in-kentucky/#more-93053

Unreal.


Good grief!!

Just finished watching Naptown to Super City. It was really, really great. Although the Star refreshes their page automagically every 15 minutes to recycle ads and thus blows up the video. Nice job fellas.

I was thinking this might come across very boosterish. But honestly, I thought while a few areas were over the top, the tone was right on. Honestly, it was pretty amazing to see the journey of the city.

When you compare Indy to cities like Cincinnati and such, you've always got to begin with this in mind: Indy started with virtually nothing and built something, and in the modern era. It's a record not too many cities can claim, especially in the Frost Belt.

Yes and that was an EPIC AND GREAT DOCUMENTARY!
Made me cry a little in happiness to see such progress.
:dance:

In honor of Super bowl 46!

http://www.universetoday.com/93053/rocket-carrier-causes-bridge-collapse-in-kentucky/#more-93053

Unreal.

That's not on the Ohio River FYI

And... Blocked. Not for political reasons, but because intelligent discussion demands respect for your adversary. I might not agree with everything said on here, but no respect is lost from rigorous debate on the merits. No matter what your point is you will always lose when you use overly charged propaganda punchlines to try to make the other party feel small. Those tactics tell everyone else that you don't have a good argument and that you are not able or willing to listen to the other position. You have already made up your mind and have chosen to be rude instead of defending your stance. You wreck your own credibility and you will never change anyone's mind with those tactics.

And I think that the discussion should not continue! Watch Moneyball, in the scouts discussions... It is going that way.

Actually i would like to see the Market Square Arena site be transformed into the Indianapolis Exchange Center.
Make the Skyscraper 1000+ Feet tall and add some major corporations to it.
Chicago Board Options Exchange Inc CEO recently said he was embarassed to live in Illinois and heck thats a perfect opportunity EVEN after the corporate welfare given by Ill-Annoy to bring a major financial company like that here. Heck building a skyscraper like that we could also consolidate the HQ's of companies like HHGregg and Finish Line and Republic Airway holdings into downtown and move the jobs to downtown from the Suburbs.
Having a skyscraper that tall and with that much spaces gives Indy the chance to target major companies. CME group when they looked at Indianapolis only had the Chase Tower to choose from cause they demanded so much room.
Another great thing about this idea is even if we can't get a bunch of major corporations to relocate their HQ to the Indianapolis Exchange Center as i said before we can move some of the companies in the suburbs into Downtown.

I thought i would add on a little bit to this proposal that would make it easier to fill up a new skyscraper.
Currently Indiana is reducing our Corporate Business Tax from 8.5% to 6.5%.
Why don't we set a new Corporate Tax rate of 0% for companies Headquartered in Indiana? That would be a very powerful weapon to recruit businesses with along with Right to Work.
One way to make up for lost revenue on this is eliminate Township level of Government and if needed raise the Personal Income Tax from 3.4% to 3.5%. Curious to see if you guys have any other ideas to make Indiana more business friendly and cut Government Waste.

Upstate lawmaker targets Indy council (http://www.indystar.com/article/20120128/NEWS05/201280358/Upstate-lawmaker-targets-Indy-council?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com)
A Lake County Republican lawmaker wants to rearrange Marion County local government in an amendment that, if enacted, could lead to Democrats losing the majority on the City-County Council.

Sen. Sue Landske, R-Cedar Lake, has filed an amendment that would eliminate the four at-large council districts in Marion County. Democrats won all four of the at-large seats, which gave them a 16-13 majority on the council after the November municipal elections.

Without those, Republicans would hold a 13-12 majority.

Under Landske's amendment to Senate Bill 110, the council would drop from 29 to 25 members in January 2016, affecting the November 2015 ballot.

Landske could not be reached Friday for comment.

Speechless.

I think it's illegal for states to discriminate like that in giving in-state HQ's companies preferential tax treatment.

Just got back from checking out all the activities for the Super Bowl downtown, it is wonderful. If you get the chance please go check it out.

Upstate lawmaker targets Indy council (http://www.indystar.com/article/20120128/NEWS05/201280358/Upstate-lawmaker-targets-Indy-council?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com)


Speechless.

Outrageous!

Demo Work started up again out of nowhere at the Uptown site. I walked out the door yesterday morning to that pleasant surprise. There's still one house being rented at the 50th street side of the block, but after this every thing else shall have been cleared for development.

I noticed this too - is it finally going to happen?

Looks like the trailer for the light show was moved in after this photo was taken. I agree, Ablerock. Details do matter. It's unfortunate this missed detail has limited someone's original vision of creating a photo location that showcases one of Indy's unique public spaces. Frustrating.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/401197_356705411023769_161163663911279_1297384_1448720207_n.jpg

Looks like the trailer was moved in after this photo was taken. I agree, Ablerock. Details do matter. It's unfortunate this missed detail has limited someone's original vision of creating a photo location that showcases one of Indy's unique public spaces.


Yeah that was taken the night before. And that's what it should look like. That's the money shot.

People are complaining about it, but I'm not hopeful that anything will actually change.

Upstate lawmaker targets Indy council (http://www.indystar.com/article/20120128/NEWS05/201280358/Upstate-lawmaker-targets-Indy-council?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com)


Speechless.

I heard this from a political insider before the start of the session.

Home rule is the only solution to this kind of meddling.

From what I understand, this is a trailer for the light show. Unbelievably bad place to locate it. This has the potential to ruin the most photographed spot in the city. Not a good look for Indy and I believe details like this matter greatly.
Earlier this week, a man working at the trailer told me (when I complained about the trailer's location) that various locations had been proposed for the Roman numerals, including Pan Am Plaza where the structural issues wouldn't allow it. I don't know if this is true. I asked what it was for: he said, light and sound show.

Then, a colleague told me he believed the real purpose of the trailer and the white numerals is transition shots during the S B broadcast when pictures of players and maybe other NFL things are projected onto the numerals and shown on television internationale. Maybe using overhead shots. This makes sense: why else the white faces of the numerals?

See, primarily, it's about the broadcast and the associated advertising $s; the local experience is secondary or worse.

I don't see the need for any sound and maybe the projection equipment could have been located in a facing building, knowing it might be lots of equipment.

I was there today and was able to get a picture of the numerals just fine, I just couldn't do it from Washington Street, but if you move halfway down the block you can capture them fine, my only problem was the people in the way, but there's little you can do about that.

Personally, I'm not going to let one trailer ruin what I think is an impressive effort and atmosphere that I saw downtown. I think they really pulled it off and it should wow those who come in from outside the city. Cities like Miami or New Orleans get the Super Bowl just because, it just happens. Cities like Indianapolis have to earn it and it shows in how the whole village and everything was arranged. Indianapolis is showing the country how one does a Super Bowl in the city, as opposed to the suburbs (looking at you Dallas and Miami.)

Besides, I sure as hell am not going to let those a**holes at the Conrad ruin the awesomeness of the Cultural Trail, I guess I'm just more into the larger picture.

Besides, I sure as hell am not going to let those a**holes at the Conrad ruin the awesomeness of the Cultural Trail, I guess I'm just more into the larger picture.

You're right.

...I guess I'm just more into the larger picture.

Good for you. Still looks like utter shite.

I thought i would add on a little bit to this proposal that would make it easier to fill up a new skyscraper.
Currently Indiana is reducing our Corporate Business Tax from 8.5% to 6.5%.
Why don't we set a new Corporate Tax rate of 0% for companies Headquartered in Indiana? That would be a very powerful weapon to recruit businesses with along with Right to Work.
One way to make up for lost revenue on this is eliminate Township level of Government and if needed raise the Personal Income Tax from 3.4% to 3.5%. Curious to see if you guys have any other ideas to make Indiana more business friendly and cut Government Waste.

Would you find some other place to post your bullshit political garbage?

Not only are you unable to write at even a high school level you are woefully misinformed and ignorant about the way the world works and the disastrous consequences of your silly policy prescriptions.

Raise the regressive flat state income tax and eliminate corporate taxes- you are a true class warrior. As if corporations weren't already sitting on record profits and cash reserves, give them even more WELFARE funded by the middle class.

"Right to Work(freeload)" does not improve the economic fortunes of states that enact it. FACT. Corporations that require massive amounts of office space are not going to uproot and move to Indiana because they would pay a lower tax rate, especially when they have already most likely receiving special treatment from the local governments in their current locations.

And finally, companies are not going to share a skyscraper in Indianapolis. Even if large companies did magically locate here it is cheaper to locate in the suburbs where land values and congestion are even lower.

Get a clue.

Mr Hoosier,
It's amazing that you would reprimand someone for posting with a political slant when every one of your posts include massive amounts of biased, ignorant, and inaccurate information based on left wing idealogical nonsense.
Do everyone on this forum a favor and and delete your account.
thank you

Someone ought to email the host committee and bring up a point about the trailer. It's the sort of thing that might not have occurred to them. Aaron.

It sounds like the trailer needs to be in that location in order to do the high tech video screen images onto the giant letters for the International telecast. I don't understand exactly what they are doing -- but apparently - although it doesn't look as good as it could for the 100,000 + people walking around on the streets of downtown Indianpolis during the event -- hopefully what will be done with the technology will look fantastic for the 100 million + people around the country and the world who will see the video images on their televisions. I don't really know - and I agree it would definitely look better from the local perspective if it were moved -- but for the big, international picture -- apparently this is the way it needs to be.

Someone ought to email the host committee and bring up a point about the trailer. It's the sort of thing that might not have occurred to them. Aaron.
I emailed several people at IDI when it first appeared last week. I thought they might forward onto host committee.

Projection on the Roman numerals --
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nBVQ8al3hgg/TyODmP8otiI/AAAAAAAAByE/B4GwH4gzv1w/s1600/Super+Bowl+009.JPG

We did the tour of downtown tonight and it's really, really great. Georgia is a pretty frigging great Super Bowl main street. It's very picturesque and it's going to translate to TV very well. Pan Am plaza will look great on TV filled with people and Union Station in the background. Losing Nordstrom may have been a blessing in disguise, giving visitors another much-needed warm respite in what will a crazy packed area.

It was also interesting to consider the way Circle Centre will be impacted. In all the focus over the street closings and other designs, I'd forgotten it will be wide open. People were everywhere, crawling all over every inch of the wholesale district. I'm stating the obvious, but it's going to be very exciting come next weekend.

It's funny – Put a bunch of people downtown, and suddenly it feels way more urban and cosmopolitan. Who'd a thunk it? ;) I can't wait 'til we start tipping the scales with residential development downtown and it feels more like this year round.

Someone ought to email the host committee and bring up a point about the trailer. It's the sort of thing that might not have occurred to them. Aaron.

There've been multiple messages sent by multiple groups to multiple recipients. :)

Mr Hoosier,
It's amazing that you would reprimand someone for posting with a political slant when every one of your posts include massive amounts of biased, ignorant, and inaccurate information based on left wing idealogical nonsense.
Do everyone on this forum a favor and and delete your account.
thank you

THANK YOU! exactly what i would of said.
Practice what you preach :bash:

Edit: Also went down to the Super Bowl today.
3 words. IT WAS AWSOME!
to much to do in all honesty.

Purchase lifts effort to develop MSA site
A community development corporation linked to the city of Indianapolis has bought the 1.87-acre parking lot that borders the former Market Square Arena site, a move that some say could be the catalyst to finally redeveloping the entire vacant site.



http://www.ibj.com/purchase-lifts-effort-to-develop-msa-site/PARAMS/article/32231

The trailer has projectors in it that project light and images onto the numerals. That equipment can't go anywhere else, but they could have chosen a more attractive housing for it than just a standard double-wide.

Purchase lifts effort to develop MSA site
A community development corporation linked to the city of Indianapolis has bought the 1.87-acre parking lot that borders the former Market Square Arena site, a move that some say could be the catalyst to finally redeveloping the entire vacant site.



http://www.ibj.com/purchase-lifts-effort-to-develop-msa-site/PARAMS/article/32231

Very curious about what this might lead to. Seems there must be something in the works for them to take the plunge.

CityWay flyover/promo vid:

Actual renderings start around the :30 mark. It's lifestyle shots until then.

I recommend bumping up the quality to 720p and going full screen.

eFWNCG6GODs

The Village is great. People seem to be having a good time and the zip line...what a draw. I think my favorite part is all the crappy little surface lots now covered with massive tents and structures. It begins to show what an urban core could be with little parking........and everyone was still alive!

The Village is great. People seem to be having a good time and the zip line...what a draw. I think my favorite part is all the crappy little surface lots now covered with massive tents and structures. It begins to show what an urban core could be with little parking........and everyone was still alive!

People are willing to tolerate long walks and/or $20 parking for a special event downtown. They've been doing it for Colts and Pacers games for years.

But remember, most of those spaces support workday offices that are the real lifeblood of downtown: jobs.

Thats true Chris, but wouldnt it be great if we had a transit system that reduced the need for all those parking lots that support jobs?

Ah, I can daydream ;-)

the flyover for city way is really cool and helps show the true picture....i am excited for this project. I hope it lives up to expectations.

Thats true Chris, but wouldnt it be great if we had a transit system that reduced the need for all those parking lots that support jobs?

Ah, I can daydream ;-)

The IndyGo buses and bus stops were packed yesterday, and a bunch of the riders seemed to be first-timers. While I don't think one event like the Super Bowl will change things dramatically, hopefully some people will realize it's not a bad option.

People are willing to tolerate long walks and/or $20 parking for a special event downtown. They've been doing it for Colts and Pacers games for years.

But remember, most of those spaces support workday offices that are the real lifeblood of downtown: jobs.

These are minor lots at best, some probably support only a handful of cars, but drain life from the CBD. I think we can go without them.

Last night I drove through downtown and was amazed to see the giant Lombardi Trophy "building covering" (I don't know what else to call it) on the JW Marriott all lit up. I don't know exactly how they do it. It seems like there is some type of reflective coloring on the poster material that makes it shine and completely stand out from the rest of the building. It looks very amazing. The dark blue glass almost disappears into the dark sky behind it - while the gigantic trophy and XLVI letters stand out very boldly. It basically makes it look almost like there is just a giant, 30 story high Lombardi trophy standing out on the west edge of downtown. I'm sure there should be some great shots of that image going out all over the planet when all of the different telecasts start.

The thing that bugs me about that City Way video is the lage amount of trees they put in on the surface parking lots across Alabama and along the railroad. It looks like crap without them in the renderings.... guess it doesn't look that way in person?

/sarcasm

Thats true Chris, but wouldnt it be great if we had a transit system that reduced the need for all those parking lots that support jobs?

Ah, I can daydream ;-)

Curt, regardless of how good our transit system gets, 80-90% of downtown workers will probably always commute by car...and most likely alone. Even if EVERY downtown resident walked, biked, or rode a bus to work downtown, that would be just a 15% non-car share.

I think the realistic hope in our lifetime is for more structured parking, like the CityWay and OneAmerica deals, as land and proximity values increase.

These are minor lots at best, some probably support only a handful of cars, but drain life from the CBD. I think we can go without them.

If you believe that, don't read the interview in today's Star with the owner of Roberts, the camera shop right downtown. They've only been right downtown for 50 years. Their lot is one of those little slivers with street and alley access. The owner believes that convenient access and parking is the lifeblood of his business.

A business like that is a regional specialty shop. It's got to have convenient parking to serve its clientele. No one's walking, biking, or riding the bus from Carmel or Geist to get there.

If you believe that, don't read the interview in today's Star with the owner of Roberts, the camera shop right downtown. They've only been right downtown for 50 years. Their lot is one of those little slivers with street and alley access. The owner believes that convenient access and parking is the lifeblood of his business.

A business like that is a regional specialty shop. It's got to have convenient parking to serve its clientele. No one's walking, biking, or riding the bus from Carmel or Geist to get there.

Then maybe it isn't fit to be a DT business. There are meters available and very close parking garages including extra cheap circle center. Convenience is in the eye of the beholder I suppose.

Then maybe it isn't fit to be a DT business. There are meters available and very close parking garages including extra cheap circle center. Convenience is in the eye of the beholder I suppose.

Ya know, it's that kind of New Urbanist planner dogma that really turns people against planners and planning. Regional specialty shops DO belong downtown. You really, truly don't know better than the business owners who've spent their entire adult lives at it, and you really, truly won't force Hoosiers out of their cars. Instead of fighting that, embrace it.

In Indy, you can't have a whole downtown of mini-Disney Main Streets with people strolling along, sipping lattes and buying baguettes, t-shirts, and trinkets...and nothing else. Downtown cannot be a "neighborhood" first. It needs office jobs, retail shops, regional attractions, and lots of people coming in from the suburbs. The reality is that downtown shopping IS competing with Fashion Mall and Greenwood Park and Castleton Square and Hamilton Towne Centre and Clay Terrace and their hundred-acre parking lots.

(BTW, Roberts stayed downtown even after they opened a store in Carmel too. People outside the favored quarter buy cameras too.)

I didn't say DT doesn't need small retail and large retail and office and industry and all kinds of fun zoning colors. What I said, is that if Roberts thinks they have to have a parking lot outside of their front door, then maybe the CBD isn't the right location. I followed up by saying there is a massive public investment in the Circle Center Garages located all around Roberts and normal times provide meter spaces as well. This isn't new urbanism, it is efficient land use.

For the record, I don't really support "new urbanism" as it is misleading.

I shop at roberts ALL THE TIME. My wife and I purchase, rent etc camera equipment there and while it is nice to have that side parking lot, I would gladly take the bus DT to get there or park on the street.

The thing about having Roberts DT, is that they service real working professionals who rely on quick turn around and availability of equipment. Having them DT is a key fixture. If the Star had to drive to Carmel to get the latest 600mm lens for the Colts game, that would be a big pain in the ass.