But, like the NFL owners, the IOC has the secret powers that allows it to convey the opportunity on a host city or region. As American Dirt suggests, what the host city makes of the oppotunity is entirely up to them.

As Brazil is a semi-socialist state with a charismatic/narcissistic leader who is eager to play a larger-than-life role on the world stage, it is likely that the games will be used as an international showpiece for his regime. Whether the national government uses the opportunity to change Rio's structural poverty and high crime is an open question.

The wealthy folks who populate international events seldom venture from the playgrounds of the wealthy, so there's no real imperative to do anything but create a "safe zone" in Rio 2016. Whether it's done by police-state tactics or by actual change is an open question that will take the next six and a half years to answer.

While the venues and the areas around them won't have much of a lasting value to the city or its people, the infrastructure investment will pay dividends far down the road. If the Olympic Village can be converted into low income housing for a few thousand people who previously resided in the favelas then that is a good thing in my book.

The IOC doesn't pay for any city upgrades- that is true, but it knows that the host city and country WILL and if it can use the carrot of the Olympics to motivate a poorer country to improve its infrastructure then that is fine with me.

Saw this today.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091007/BUSINESS/910070399/Apartment+developer+eyes+old+bank+garage

What is the latest with this thing? Is tihs realy the hold up? I thought some people hand complained and got something changed around so that they had to get another body's approval.... maybe this is it??

Just forgetful here

Saw this today.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091007/BUSINESS/910070399/Apartment+developer+eyes+old+bank+garage

What is the latest with this thing? Is tihs realy the hold up? I thought some people hand complained and got something changed around so that they had to get another body's approval.... maybe this is it??

Just forgetful here

No, there's just a lot of process required for these deals that include abatements or allocations from TIF districts. They get announced, and it takes 60-90 days to get the paperwork all done because there are public advertising and public hearing schedules to abide by.

I hope they pull it off. This is good news for the city market also.

no thay have enough empty apartments now as it is.


Last time I checked I thought the apartment vacancy downtown was around 1-2%. Anyway, I hope they've improved the design since last time. Perhaps, add some first floor retail space too. Wishful thinking?

I hope they pull it off. This is good news for the city market also.

no thay have enough empty apartments now as it is.


Last time I checked I thought the apartment vacancy downtown was around 1-2%. Anyway, I hope they've improved the design since last time. Perhaps, add some first floor retail space too. Wishful thinking?
That person almost certainly has no idea what they're talking about. But the downtown apartment vacancy rate may be slightly higher than normal right now, at least judging by my apartment complex, Gardens of Canal Court. They currently have a sign out on West St. advertising availability. In the four and a half years I've lived there, I think I've seen that sign once before. They usually have a gigantic waiting list for the complex -- I had to wait 5 months for a unit to become available -- which makes advertising unnecessary. If they're an indicator, there might be more vacancy around downtown than normal.

Old MSA Proposal, makes me nostalgic.

http://web.bsu.edu/capic/rcp2020/archives/library/msa/msa_partners_30.pdf

The Mediocre 600 Apartment Proposal

http://weblive.ibj.com/ibj/website/resources/parking060109.pdf

http://www.ibj.com/abatement-for-controversial-downtown-redevelopment-approved/PARAMS/article/7439

A commission member pointed out that there’s no guarantee the redevelopment of the Bank One operations center will meet the same fate as the failed MSA project.

But Weber argued that the developer for the MSA site had no public subsidy.

“That’s why it failed,” he said.

That sets a very, VERY bad precedent for the city of Indianapolis. Especially if we are ever to want private development WITHOUT public subsidies. :ohno:

I'd like to see some renderings of this project. I think its the condo market that is hurting in the downtown area at this time. There has been a need for more market rate apartments. However, given the economy that demand may have weakened but its certain to remain high in the long term.

The closure of the roughly 1,000-space MSA lots would leave the CIB with another revenue hole to fill. The five-acre parking area, which is owned by the city but operated by the CIB, raked in about $730,000 in 2007 and $789,000 in 2008

This to me is bad planning period. Obviously, the city wants to push this so that there isnt a huge gravel lot in the middle of downtown. So what were they planning on doing when someone finally stepped up to develop this land? Make them pay the CIB a percentage every year close to what they are raking in now? Just seems like avoiding the inevitable

Remember how we wanted F&C to build a high rise on the MSA site similar to the one they are doing in Charlotte? Oops

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091008/BUSINESS/91008009/-1/ARCHIVE/Indianapolis+developer++N.C.+high-rise+project+bankrupt

Indianapolis developer: N.C. high-rise project bankrupt
By Tom Spalding
Posted: October 8, 2009

An unfinished high-profile construction project in Charlotte, N.C. -- affiliated with Indianapolis-based Flaherty & Collins -- has filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection.

Charlotte FC LLC filed the bankruptcy proceedings Oct. 2 in Indianapolis over the partially constructed 48-story, 417-unit luxury tower, dubbed 210 Trade, company spokesman Mark Conover said today.

Conover says the Chapter 7 filing "only involves that project" and doesn't impact other parts of the company, including the Indianapolis retail-residential complex Cosmopolitan on the Canal.

Ballard on Smoking Ban, Fever & Mass Transit

http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=11279243


Another goal is mass transit. "We will be unveiling a mass transit plan for central Indiana here in the near future within a couple three months, so it's something we can talk about, not something that we say, 'this is it.'"

Ballard on Smoking Ban, Fever & Mass Transit

http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=11279243


Another goal is mass transit. "We will be unveiling a mass transit plan for central Indiana here in the near future within a couple three months, so it's something we can talk about, not something that we say, 'this is it.'"

His next quote is good as well:

"Third thing is, we need to create a culture, a paradigm shift in the City of Indianapolis, and I've been talking about that for a while, where people understand how important this is for the future of the city and the young people that wanna live in the city."

^^
In other words, wider roads. :)

^^
In other words, wider roads. :)

Bwa ha ha.

No seriously, he's talking good stuff.

http://www.ibj.com/efforts-target-blight-on-16th/PARAMS/article/7491

Grocery, housing projects could rejuvenate blighted patch of 16th Street
A troubled low-income housing project has a new owner with plans to redevelop the complex to better connect with the Herron Morton Place neighborhood. Next door, Kroger has revived efforts to acquire land and plan a new supermarket to replace a cramped, old-format location.


That may be some of the best news Indianapolis has heard in quite a few months. This is what really needs to blossom in Indy. Great neighborhoods surrounding our thriving downtown. Or else we cannot truly be "world class".

I think this is one of the most amazing things. I live at 14th and Pennsylvania and love the Old North Side, but we have the 16th Street Kroger in the middle of blight. The Kroger is really dark and scary, far from inviting. That street has huge potential. This could be the start of a huge thing.

Bwa ha ha.

No seriously, he's talking good stuff.

For real?! Like trains?!

http://www.ibj.com/efforts-target-blight-on-16th/PARAMS/article/7491

Grocery, housing projects could rejuvenate blighted patch of 16th Street
A troubled low-income housing project has a new owner with plans to redevelop the complex to better connect with the Herron Morton Place neighborhood. Next door, Kroger has revived efforts to acquire land and plan a new supermarket to replace a cramped, old-format location.


That may be some of the best news Indianapolis has heard in quite a few months. This is what really needs to blossom in Indy. Great neighborhoods surrounding our thriving downtown. Or else we cannot truly be "world class".
When I moved into an apartment at 17th and Central in 2002, there was already a long-running line about Kroger's plans to rebuild at 16th and Central. I will believe this news when I see dirt moving, not before.

For real?! Like trains?!

Are you being sarcastic or what? :-)

When I moved into an apartment at 17th and Central in 2002, there was already a long-running line about Kroger's plans to rebuild at 16th and Central. I will believe this news when I see dirt moving, not before.

I don't blame you.

Bill Taft at LISC has been talking about this happening too. He's not usually one to start rumors without substantiation. That might help move the belief needle a little bit. :-)

Are you being sarcastic or what? :-)

No, I'm just bitter from years of dissappointment. :)
No, but seriously does this include rails?

When I moved into an apartment at 17th and Central in 2002, there was already a long-running line about Kroger's plans to rebuild at 16th and Central. I will believe this news when I see dirt moving, not before.

Does anyone know if Kroger's plan still includes a gas station at the corner of 16th & Central? I believe that was an apparent sticking point with interested parties in the past.

http://www.ibj.com/efforts-target-blight-on-16th/PARAMS/article/7491

Grocery, housing projects could rejuvenate blighted patch of 16th Street
A troubled low-income housing project has a new owner with plans to redevelop the complex to better connect with the Herron Morton Place neighborhood. Next door, Kroger has revived efforts to acquire land and plan a new supermarket to replace a cramped, old-format location.


That may be some of the best news Indianapolis has heard in quite a few months. This is what really needs to blossom in Indy. Great neighborhoods surrounding our thriving downtown. Or else we cannot truly be "world class".

I agree, I will believe the new Kroger when I see dirt moving. I was on the City's planning Staff during the first go 'round...

I must say, the Market St. improvements are looking really nice. I haven't actually walked down the street yet to make a detailed analysis.

I drive up College from Fountain Square on my way to work and cross Market St. every morning. The details are all kind of typical urban improvement, grass buffers, old-timey lights, planters, etc. But it looks really nice because you can see all the way to the monument. The new street lights really frame the view nicely.

According to a government friend, there have been some complaints about the design (above and beyond Washington St) and I remember reading that Axis complained about DPW. But for the most part, the impression is positive. I really look forward to seeing what happens along Market St. in the next 5-10 years.

It's almost quaint, and I think that's a good thing, even being the progressive type that I am! :-)

I must say, the Market St. improvements are looking really nice. I haven't actually walked down the street yet to make a detailed analysis.

I drive up College from Fountain Square on my way to work and cross Market St. every morning. The details are all kind of typical urban improvement, grass buffers, old-timey lights, planters, etc. But it looks really nice because you can see all the way to the monument. The new street lights really frame the view nicely.

According to a government friend, there have been some complaints about the design (above and beyond Washington St) and I remember reading that Axis complained about DPW. But for the most part, the impression is positive. I really look forward to seeing what happens along Market St. in the next 5-10 years.

It's almost quaint, and I think that's a good thing, even being the progressive type that I am! :-)

I walked it from College to Delaware and it was fine until I got to East w/ the old bank and then the gravel parking lot. There were benches and the sidewalks were wide and I finally figured out where circle city pizza is!

I must say, the Market St. improvements are looking really nice. I haven't actually walked down the street yet to make a detailed analysis.

I drive up College from Fountain Square on my way to work and cross Market St. every morning. The details are all kind of typical urban improvement, grass buffers, old-timey lights, planters, etc. But it looks really nice because you can see all the way to the monument. The new street lights really frame the view nicely.

According to a government friend, there have been some complaints about the design (above and beyond Washington St) and I remember reading that Axis complained about DPW. But for the most part, the impression is positive. I really look forward to seeing what happens along Market St. in the next 5-10 years.

It's almost quaint, and I think that's a good thing, even being the progressive type that I am! :-)
I agree, they've done a pretty solid job with Market. The only big complaint, the TWLTL, kinda sucks. But it's not part of the hard-scape and could theoretically be restriped in the future for relatively little money.

It'll be nice once this is done and I can use Market to get to Sun King Brewery. It's a pain (coming from the NW) to have to get onto one-way-north College to get into their parking lot right now!

16th Street Renewal
http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2009/10/13/efforts-target-blight-on-16th-street/PARAMS/post/7526

Monon Trail & 22nd Streeet
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091013/BUSINESS/91013042/Urban+renewal+project+targets+Monon+Trail

Enjoy! :)

Monon Trail & 22nd Streeet
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091013/BUSINESS/91013042/Urban+renewal+project+targets+Monon+Trail

Enjoy! :)

Is this a "paid for" development or just an advising committee? It seems difficult to understand reading the text of that article.

Does anyone know what is going to happen with the old central library building? I just moved back to Indy a few months ago and I haven't been clued in on this.

Hello everyone, I have been reading you guys for over 2 years now and thought I would join the discussion. Did anyone notice this today?

Press Release

INDOT Seeks Federal Funds For High Speed Rail

October 13, 2009

INDIANAPOLIS – On behalf of the Midwest Regional Rail Initiative, Indiana requested $2.8 billion in American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) funds to plan, build and launch high-speed rail service from Chicago to Cleveland. A copy of the application is available on the Indiana Department of Transportation (INDOT) Web site at http://indot.IN.gov/3064.htm.

“With the support of our counterparts in Chicago and Ohio, INDOT submitted one application that Indiana believes stands the greatest chance of being approved by the Federal Rail Administration,” said INDOT Commissioner Michael W. Reed.

If approved, initial environmental and feasibility studies would fully consider two routes through Indiana, either a northern route with proposed stops in South Bend, Elkhart and Waterloo or a southern route with proposed stops in Plymouth, Warsaw and Fort Wayne. Both routes would also include a proposed stop near Gary.

ARRA, commonly known as the federal stimulus package, provides an $8 billion initial investment in high-speed intercity passenger rail, followed by an additional $1 billion a year for five years. In August INDOT requested $71.4 million in final design and construction funds to improve the congested Norfolk Southern rail line that connects Chicago to Detroit through northwest Indiana. The Federal Rail Administration anticipates announcing grant awards this winter.

Indiana is one of nine member states in the Midwest Regional Rail Initiative, an ongoing effort to develop and expand access to an improved passenger rail system in the Midwest. This proposed system would provide high-speed rail service of 80 to 110 miles per hour with shorter travel times, increased frequency of service, accessibility and reliability. Other participating states are Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Ohio, Nebraska and Wisconsin.

Source: INDOT

http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=11307532

Welcome Round Rock: Hadn't seen the article about INDOT's request for federal HSR funds. Don't know what the chances are of it getting approved. Hopefully we'll hear something by the end of the year. My understanding is that the most likely routes to get the first amount of funding are routes from Chicago to Milwaukee, Detroit and St. Louis. Those corridors have their environmental studies complete.


To RESIDENT: If when you say Central Library, you mean the old City Hall (former State Museum and former interim main library) at the NW corner of Ohio and Alabama -- no decision has been made about a future use for it. Recently there was a story in one of the local papers about it possibly being used by local arts groups as an auditorium --- maybe for the Opera, Ballet, other dance groups, etc. The Central Library is at the north end of American Legion Mall -- where the historic Central Library has been located since the early 20th century, along with the new expansion that was added to it about a year and a half ago.

Monon Trail & 22nd Streeet
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091013/BUSINESS/91013042/Urban+renewal+project+targets+Monon+Trail

Enjoy! :)

So did anyone make it to this last night? I had to go to school or else I would have tried to make it. I forwarded the link to my wife who writes for the Broad Ripple Gazette and thought it might be a decent thing to touch on.

Seemed like an interesting item to raise awareness on.

It'll be nice once this is done and I can use Market to get to Sun King Brewery. It's a pain (coming from the NW) to have to get onto one-way-north College to get into their parking lot right now!


SUN KING is a great addition to DT! Love it!

Any thoughts on Trail Side on Mass Ave?

http://www.brookspublications.com/files/TRAILSIDE_feb09.pdf

http://www.indy.com/posts/mass-ave-may-get-apartment-building

Any thoughts on Trail Side on Mass Ave?

http://www.brookspublications.com/files/TRAILSIDE_feb09.pdf

http://www.indy.com/posts/mass-ave-may-get-apartment-building

I'm frustrated with the local businesses throwing wrenches at it.

Wasn't it supposed to get some federal funding since it is shovel ready and low income?

Check out this response I got from emailing Mayor Ballard though IndyGov about IndyGo:

The Office of the Mayor forwarded your email regarding your concerns about our service. To begin, thank you for riding IndyGo!

Your point about service frequency is valid as our service hours and frequency are insufficient in comparison to other cities. Unfortunately, we don’t have the dollars to expand our service…that being said, we are in the beginning of a new COA (Comprehensive Operational Analysis) which will give us a plan for growth in the near, short and long term – of course, any real system improvements will only come with an increased budget. We are currently funded from four pots – federal, state, local and farebox revenue.


That being said, we try to be creative and leverage grant dollars for other improvements. Yes, we just finished the installation of GPS on our buses and our next step is sharing with the public. We are in the process of researching products and platforms to share our real time arrival information with our passengers. This will mean a new web site, an online trip planner and texting functionality from every bus stop to find out next bus arrival. Trust me, I wish we had this done yesterday, but these projects do take a little time and planning. I hope to have some of these tools by Q1 or 2 of 2010.

So, please be patient with us as we are trying to improve when resources are available. If you are interested in public transportation in our community/state, check out http://www.indianacat.org/ - it’s the Indiana Citizen’s Alliance for Transit website.

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and I hope this information is useful.

^^ Sounds pretty good. I agree with much of what the writer wrote. I know there are good people working in planning and management at IndyGo - and they definitely could do a much better job with more money to provide better frequencies and expanded services. I just don't know when steps might be able to be taken to get more funds to help provide these improved services. Good news about the GPS technology and text linking capabilities to determine next bus arrival times. Like someone (Arenn?) suggested a few pages back in this thread -- good to hear they are finally taking advantage of some lower cost technology strategies.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091014/LOCAL18/310140002/Renewal+project+to+focus+on+area+near+22nd+and+Monon

:banana:

Read that this morning indyrock. I hope that they are able to nail down funding. it sounds VERY ambitious. I like what they want to do.

Ambition doesnt come cheaply though.

I read the article, but it didn't look like they really said anything.

Just wanted to pass along that the Contact Us section of IndyGov has proven to be a very good way to get your complaints, suggestions and inquiries to city officials.

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Mayor/Pages/contact.aspx

I submitted at least 7 different issues and they were all responded to by a real living person in about 48 hours.

The individuals who responded gave out very valuable information and were honest and up front about the particular issues I had.

I suggest writing often!

Good news about the funds coming in to pay for the Lucas Oil Stadium and Convention Center expansion. They're coming in well above expectations. So far $17.5 million ahead of what was anticipated to have been received by this time. Pretty good for the middle of a recession. That estimated revenue sources were purposedly set very conservatively - so there wouldn't be much concern about not being able to meet expectations. Hopefully over the next few years, the surplus will be even stronger. Here's the link to the story from the Indianapolis Star:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091015/LOCAL18/910150467/-1/frontpagecities/Tax+collections+to+pay+debt+on+stadium+beat+projections+by++17.5M

The extra money will go to pay down the debt ahead of schedule. Too bad they can't use it to pay the operating expenses - which we don't have enough money for. I'd hate to see this fantastic new convention / stadium comples get built and then, due to reductions in staff and a reduced marketing budget, not being able to attract the large conventions we need in order to keep it filled. Latest I heard is that the Fire Instructors Conference (30,000 attendees) and the Power Sports Convention (25,000 attendees) are being wooed very strongly by cities like Atlanta, Dallas, Orlando, etc.

Actually, it is very good this money is legally earmarked for debt. Otherwise it would have been spent and we'd be none the wiser. That's why the city is still paying off bonds on Market Square Arena and why it owes as much on the Hoosier Dome as it cost to originally construct it - and the Lilly Endowment coughed up half the original construction costs.

The fact that the opex on the stadium was not budgeted is ridiculous and it should have been built into the original deal. However, creating excess revenue streams that can be diverted to other purposes is nothing more than issuing a "letter of marque" to unscrupulous parties. Whatever one may think of the current or past administrations, on a long term deal no one can guarantee who might be in power and in a position to abuse this in the future.

The Fletcher Place/Fountain Square coffee shop, Calvin Fletcher's Coffee Company, is absolutely brilliant.

Great coffee, great interior design (conservative chic), great staff, great location/building.

Definitely check this place out and support it. It's the kind of local business we all want to proliferate throughout the city.

It's at 615 Virginia Avenue. It's the building with the beautiful arch, if you're familiar with the area.

615 Virginia Avenue
Indianapolis, IN
46203

Glad to hear they opened - great news.

I was wondering about another area somewhat like Mass Av that is around the mile area? Any help? Thanks.

I realize this might be a dumb question, but anyone tell me if, and how I can insert a photo from my hard drive into a post on this site? I've only seen the "Insert Image" button, which asks for a URL. Does that mean my photo has to be pulled from another website?

Not a dumb question. I was going to ask the same thing since I just joined this group....

Indy Yeah: I guess the closest thing that is "somewhat like Mass Ave that is around the mile area" would be, in my opinion, Virginia Avenue as it heads southeast from downtown. Basically the street begins to feel "a little" like Mass Avenue, once you cross the intersection of South Street and East Street. Between that intersection and Fountain Square (a distance of a little less than a mile), there are a good number of independent restaurants, bars, galleries, antique stores, little shops, etc. It has more parking lots and used car dealers than Mass Ave - and is split by about a 300 yard divide where I-65 / I-70 goes underneath Virginia Avenue. The area is changing and slowly-but-steadily growing - and has a different feel than Mass Ave. It is the only thing I can think of that might be considered similar to Mass Avenue that is near the mile square.

I realize this might be a dumb question, but anyone tell me if, and how I can insert a photo from my hard drive into a post on this site? I've only seen the "Insert Image" button, which asks for a URL. Does that mean my photo has to be pulled from another website?
The basic answer is: a photo has to be hosted somewhere. Some forums self-host photos, allowing you to upload a photo to a server maintained by the forum admins. As far as I know, this forum does not. So, unfortunately, you'll have to upload the photo somewhere else and then provide the URL to use it on this forum.

Common options are flickr (http://www.flickr.com/), picasa (http://picasa.google.com/) and photobucket (http://photobucket.com/).

Thanks Garfield Park. For some reason I do not get north of Mass Av as well as south of the wholesale district. I know I am missing some things to do. Sometimes I just want to get the hell out of the truck,because I am sick of driving, and just miss certain areas. Thanks alot for the information. Heck, I still have not been to that deli I hear about.

Virginia Avenue has a more eclectic, funky feel to it where as Mass Ave. is more urban core. In Fountain Square there are some nice restaurants. I think you can sit on the roof of one of them and catch a great view of downtown. I'm sorry but i'm not certain about the name of it. One of my favorites is Santorni's Greek Kitchen just east of the square on the southside of Prospect. If you like Greek food, you'll love Santorini's, great food, very reasonably priced and worth the trip.

http://apps.fallcreekplace.com/blog/upload/f/a/fallcreekplace.com/b142bb88c9cbfcffd1992886b36e09fb.jpg

http://www.fallcreekplace.com/files/progress/2205del_notice_package.pdf

^^ That development is scheduled to be heard by the BZA Div 2 on Tuesday. Planning staff report is here (PDF) (http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/Planning/Zoning/Documents/bza2/10-20-09bza2.pdf).

Also, after a continuance, the 49th and Penn thing is scheduled to be heard on the 27th.

http://apps.fallcreekplace.com/blog/upload/f/a/fallcreekplace.com/b142bb88c9cbfcffd1992886b36e09fb.jpg

http://www.fallcreekplace.com/files/progress/2205del_notice_package.pdf


NOW this is fugly

Taken Saturday:

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs218.snc1/8521_1235505617465_1523967601_656611_3246660_n.jpg

NOW this is fugly

Agreed.
A green roof would do wonders for this structure.

http://apps.fallcreekplace.com/blog/upload/f/a/fallcreekplace.com/b142bb88c9cbfcffd1992886b36e09fb.jpg

http://www.fallcreekplace.com/files/progress/2205del_notice_package.pdf

Where do Indy architects and people who pass this stuff get their ambitions and inspirations from?

http://apps.fallcreekplace.com/blog/upload/f/a/fallcreekplace.com/b142bb88c9cbfcffd1992886b36e09fb.jpg

http://www.fallcreekplace.com/files/progress/2205del_notice_package.pdf
The initial rendering (Feb '09):

http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/blog/propertylines/uploads/2009/02/22nd-and-delaware.jpg

I wasn't crazy about the initial rendering but the new one definitely seems like a step back. On the bright side, it's nice that they're moving forward with this, even though it appears that Ace Hardware is no longer involved with the project:

http://www.ibj.com/blog/article?articleId=1591

Maybe the lack of a major guaranteed tenant has something to do with the downgraded design.

If we're going to dis it, let's at least look at a decent-sized rendering:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3294/4027105882_65e94fab45_o.jpg

Replacing the wall of windows on Delaware with those 6 spaced windows is definitely a downgrade.

Functionally, though, I like this design better. Rather than a monolithic ground floor, they now envision multiple tenants. However, I wish they designed the whole ground floor to be subdivided depending on tenant needs, not just the north end of the building. Maybe they still have Ace on the back burner. If not, I wonder if that one large space might sit unused for a while.

The change in fenestration is definitely not good. The original design was better, but I wouldn't call this one "fugly".

Kinda looks like it would look better at a summer camp. May look well southeast of I.U. maybe.

The basic answer is: a photo has to be hosted somewhere. Some forums self-host photos, allowing you to upload a photo to a server maintained by the forum admins. As far as I know, this forum does not. So, unfortunately, you'll have to upload the photo somewhere else and then provide the URL to use it on this forum.

Common options are flickr (http://www.flickr.com/), picasa (http://picasa.google.com/) and photobucket (http://photobucket.com/).

Thanks Corr.

Anyone have the original renderings that were approved several years ago?

How about that 6' tall, solid wall right up against the sidewalk on 22nd Street? What's that about? How can that be ok? The staff report says it's a 5' tall fence, so I guess those are some really short pedestrians in the rendering. Nonetheless, that doesn't seem like it can in anyway be an improvement to the streetscape.

To me, that 22nd Street wall and the fenestration along Delaware are the big weaknesses; otherwise I don't have huge objections to it. A few questions though:

- Does it appear to anyone else that the GLA is going to be less in the new design, thanks to a slightly stepped-back second floor? Do the builders think tenants will capitalize on the space being used as a deck?

- What's going on in the new design with that northernmost section, to the left of the main entrance in the rendering? Was that space undeveloped in the older design?

http://www.ibj.com/city-seeks-ideas-to-privatize-stadium-convention-center-operations/PARAMS/article/10653

I dont know how everyone feels about the Allen Plaza building but it hasnt been mentioned in a while. For you downtown dwellers, its probably a common site, but for those of you who dont get down there often, I snapped a photo of it last evening. The sun had dipped behind some of the taller surrounding buildings, but you still get an idea what the place looks like.

http://hustonstreetracing.com/gallery2/images/allen_plaza.jpg

I dont know how everyone feels about the Allen Plaza building but it hasnt been mentioned in a while. For you downtown dwellers, its probably a common site, but for those of you who dont get down there often, I snapped a photo of it last evening. The sun had dipped behind some of the taller surrounding buildings, but you still get an idea what the place looks like.

http://hustonstreetracing.com/gallery2/images/allen_plaza.jpg

I honestly think it looks rather stunning. With the exception of the southern part of the base. That part is pretty fugly. But the main tower itself looks pretty refreshing.

I dont know how everyone feels about the Allen Plaza building but it hasnt been mentioned in a while. For you downtown dwellers, its probably a common site, but for those of you who dont get down there often, I snapped a photo of it last evening. The sun had dipped behind some of the taller surrounding buildings, but you still get an idea what the place looks like.

http://hustonstreetracing.com/gallery2/images/allen_plaza.jpg

Definitely an improvement over the old Jefferson facade, which was, well, fugly...

^^^^Definitely an improvement over the old Jefferson facade, which was, well, fugly...

My favorite project going. Love the corner glass element.

I think that they did a great job with Allen Plaza. I like the use of the glass and how this is a nice counterpart to the gorgeous Majestic next door. Additionally, Scotty's has turned out to be a smashing success downtown and the outdoor dinig area is second to none.

Isn't it great how this little section of a once vaccuous-portion of downtown has become teeming with people and activity in such a short period of time??

^^ I thought this thing was originally going to have a "crown" or extension off of that NW corner (glass facade) that extended up a couple of more stories.

The website shows just such a structure, but it doesnt look like anything is going on there. I could be wrong. I was in a hurry headed to school so didnt get a chance to really explore as well as I should have.

^^I thought the same.Are we missing something at that angle?

^^ I thought this thing was originally going to have a "crown" or extension off of that NW corner (glass facade) that extended up a couple of more stories.

"The Crown" I'm talking about, I found in a picture of the original rendering posted over a year ago. Looks almost like a Helicopter landing zone.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa215/baronalex/Allen.jpg
^^Where's the crown?

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2009/10/21/yats-opening-new-concept-downtown-near-central-library/PARAMS/post/10664 :cheers:

"The Crown" I'm talking about, I found in a picture of the original rendering posted over a year ago. Looks almost like a Helicopter landing zone.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa215/baronalex/Allen.jpg
^^Where's the crown?
If I remember correctly, someone mentioned on the walking tour in August that the crown element is a single piece being assembled somewhere else and has been delayed.

http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2009/10/21/yats-opening-new-concept-downtown-near-central-library/PARAMS/post/10664 :cheers:
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s289/corrnd/random/YatsAmbassador.jpg

http://dig-b.blogspot.com/2009/10/photo-bar-yats-coming-soon.html

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s289/corrnd/random/YatsAmbassador.jpg

http://dig-b.blogspot.com/2009/10/photo-bar-yats-coming-soon.html
Nice, that area has some real potential.

However, I've always wondered why Yats doesn't stay open late on the weekends.

If I remember correctly, someone mentioned on the walking tour in August that the crown element is a single piece being assembled somewhere else and has been delayed.

I really hope that the crown will still be part of this building. This element goes so well with the building. Really adds something nice.

I definitely like Allen Plaza

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/St95-N5pv5I/AAAAAAAADnI/dFFSeTp5P6c/s512/photo%2053.jpg

Daniels: I-69 will be half done by 2012

Associated Press

BOONVILLE, Ind. — Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels says the state plans to complete construction of the Interstate 69 extension between Evansville and the Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center by 2012, three years ahead of schedule.

He told the Evansville Courier & Press today that state highway officials also think that stretch of the highway can be built for the $700 million originally allotted because of plans to narrow medians, eliminate some interchanges and reduce pavement thickness.


The section between Evansville and Crane covers 68 miles, nearly half the full 142-mile route to Indianapolis.

The original cost of building the extension was set at $1.3 billion, including $700 million for the Evansville-to-Crane stretch. Cost estimates have since gone up to $3.1 billion.

I don't like how the state is keeping the I-69 project on budget. Reducing pavement thickness is a horrible idea- it just means that the pavement will have to be replaced earlier costing more money in the long run and inconveniencing motorists.

And reducing the number of interchanges goes against one of the main arguments in favor of the interstate- improving access to the SW Indiana.

I don't like how the state is keeping the I-69 project on budget. Reducing pavement thickness is a horrible idea- it just means that the pavement will have to be replaced earlier costing more money in the long run and inconveniencing motorists.

And reducing the number of interchanges goes against one of the main arguments in favor of the interstate- improving access to the SW Indiana.

I completely agree. If you are going to go through the trouble to build a new interstate, it should be done right and should utilized todays engineering and technology. Cutting corners now will only hurt in the future.

I think that they did a great job with Allen Plaza. I like the use of the glass and how this is a nice counterpart to the gorgeous Majestic next door. Additionally, Scotty's has turned out to be a smashing success downtown and the outdoor dinig area is second to none.

Isn't it great how this little section of a once vaccuous-portion of downtown has become teeming with people and activity in such a short period of time??

Is it just me, or is Scotty's service, well, a little sucky? Maybe it's just because I've only gone on Wednesdays, which is half price beer and appetizer night.

Is it just me, or is Scotty's service, well, a little sucky? Maybe it's just because I've only gone on Wednesdays, which is half price beer and appetizer night.

To clarify, I'm cheap, so I'll tolerate slow service for a good price, but I'm not sure about everyone else.

More mass transit, more fodder for the negative
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091022/LOCAL/910220432/-1/frontpagecities/Expert++Referendum+might+fund+mass+transit

I love reading the negativity in the comments sections. LOL

So I've begun work on a blog. As for a focus, Im still narrowing it down. I would venture to say there will be a centrality revolving around issues in Indy's Young Adult community,(18 - 25 range), along with items of cultural significance, the progressive music scene in Indianapolis and the Immediate midwest ( Cincy, Michigan, Indiana,). Basically the happenings of Indianapolis from a 19 year olds point of view.

I've contemplated a viral marketing of this site to build up interest along the streetscape. Perhaps Some kinda radical, militant letter to the editor campaign in collusion with word of mouth and street art haha. I want the site to be an epicenter of conversation as well as controversy (if the general public is reading it shouldn't be too hard) while still keeping an intellectual integrity about it. Any thoughts or words of encouragement for a first time blogger ?

Don't underestimate the amount of work involved.

So I've begun work on a blog. As for a focus, Im still narrowing it down. I would venture to say there will be a centrality revolving around issues in Indy's Young Adult community,(18 - 25 range), along with items of cultural significance, the progressive music scene in Indianapolis and the Immediate midwest ( Cincy, Michigan, Indiana,). Basically the happenings of Indianapolis from a 19 year olds point of view.

I've contemplated a viral marketing of this site to build up interest along the streetscape. Perhaps Some kinda radical, militant letter to the editor campaign in collusion with word of mouth and street art haha. I want the site to be an epicenter of conversation as well as controversy (if the general public is reading it shouldn't be too hard) while still keeping an intellectual integrity about it. Any thoughts or words of encouragement for a first time blogger ?

So if you need somebody to help contribute, I'd be more than happy to. :)

^^Right On Indy Rock ! I'm completely for working with others, even down with setting this up as a collaborative blog. I'll message you once i have a more cohesive idea with what's going on.

Don't underestimate the amount of work involved.

Yeah. I know a guy who's supposed to write just ONE guest piece for Aaron's blog on a topic he knows well.

...but he's more than a month behind because he's such a damn perfectionist about writing (even though he believes in incremental improvements on less-than-stellar streetscapes and architecture in Indy.) :lol:

Hey Swimm INindy I am 22 and in a local band as a drummer. Would love to help as much as you would need or like me to also!

Was anyone effected by the closure of I-465? That accident was pretty serious and will basically shut down one of the most heavily traveled roads in the state for several weeks.

Perhaps the state can fast track the planned reconstruction of the I-465/I69 interchange now that the existing one has been damaged.

More mass transit, more fodder for the negative
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091022/LOCAL/910220432/-1/frontpagecities/Expert++Referendum+might+fund+mass+transit

I love reading the negativity in the comments sections. LOL

But roads are free don't you know? God pays for them.

http://hosted.verticalresponse.com/548046/efd56c116e/1495501875/33d540dd6d/

Hello CAP:IC Friend!
There are a lot of things going on here at CAP:IC, and we'd like to invite you in for an evening to meet the Master of Urban Design students, check out our work, thank our supporters, and learn more about our programs.

http://img.pcdn.vresp.com/media/c/7/8/c78a36d9ee/efd56c116e/2b6f0b56b9/image1.jpg
CAP:IC depends on the support of our friends and alumni to provide a world-class education for our students and to advocate for excellence in urban design in our community. Support Ball State and CAP:IC through the Ball State Bold Campaign by writing in "CAP Indianapolis Center" or contributing to one of the key overall campaign priorities.
Learn more about Ball State Bold (http://cts.vresp.com/c/?BallStateCAPIC/efd56c116e/33d540dd6d/1a23eb3f20)
http://img.pcdn.vresp.com/media/c/7/8/c78a36d9ee/efd56c116e/dda4595188/image1.gif (http://cts.vresp.com/c/?BallStateCAPIC/efd56c116e/33d540dd6d/1a23eb3f20)

So I've begun work on a blog. As for a focus, Im still narrowing it down. I would venture to say there will be a centrality revolving around issues in Indy's Young Adult community,(18 - 25 range), along with items of cultural significance, the progressive music scene in Indianapolis and the Immediate midwest ( Cincy, Michigan, Indiana,). Basically the happenings of Indianapolis from a 19 year olds point of view.

I've contemplated a viral marketing of this site to build up interest along the streetscape. Perhaps Some kinda radical, militant letter to the editor campaign in collusion with word of mouth and street art haha. I want the site to be an epicenter of conversation as well as controversy (if the general public is reading it shouldn't be too hard) while still keeping an intellectual integrity about it. Any thoughts or words of encouragement for a first time blogger ?
My advice: be very realistic about your goals and what you can keep up with. It's easy to be really excited and energetic about your concept to begin with, but things can be very different after the initial glow wears off. Few blogs make it beyond 6mo because it's so difficult to maintain the momentum.

That said, sounds like an interesting concept -- best of luck to you!

So I've begun work on a blog. As for a focus, Im still narrowing it down. I would venture to say there will be a centrality revolving around issues in Indy's Young Adult community,(18 - 25 range), along with items of cultural significance, the progressive music scene in Indianapolis and the Immediate midwest ( Cincy, Michigan, Indiana,). Basically the happenings of Indianapolis from a 19 year olds point of view.

I've contemplated a viral marketing of this site to build up interest along the streetscape. Perhaps Some kinda radical, militant letter to the editor campaign in collusion with word of mouth and street art haha. I want the site to be an epicenter of conversation as well as controversy (if the general public is reading it shouldn't be too hard) while still keeping an intellectual integrity about it. Any thoughts or words of encouragement for a first time blogger ?

It's good that you are keeping the focus of the blog narrow. Don't start with an overly broad scope or you will most likely scatter the interest of your intended audience. Start small and broaden incrementally.

"Incremental" is probably the keyword. It will take a considerable amount of time, patience, and, as arenn says, hard work to get an established viewership.

My advice: be very realistic about your goals and what you can keep up with. It's easy to be really excited and energetic about your concept to begin with, but things can be very different after the initial glow wears off. Few blogs make it beyond 6mo because it's so difficult to maintain the momentum.

Hear, hear. Mine's been sitting idle for months for that exact reason. It's also difficult for a blog to compete with actual revenue-generating endeavors, which also played a role in my blog's hibernation. One only has so much time in a day. Some blogs are capable of generating revenue, of course, but that takes a lot of dedication and work.

Good luck SwimINindy!

If you can satisfy yourself, that's good but if you are trying to make money on it, that can be tough. You gotta keep people interested.

I keep a photo blog on my website, but its nothing serious. Just my own sillyness

Speaking of blogs, please check out my new site:

http://www.urbanophile.com/

Design by ablerock.

Speaking of blogs, please check out my new site:

http://www.urbanophile.com/

Design by ablerock.

Nice site. When does the old blog go dark?

The cutover is today, but the old blog will be up indefinitely - lots of links out there to content. Plus, all of my archives have absolute URL's that point to the old site, so I'd break most of my own links on the new blog if I turned the old one off.

Speaking of blogs, please check out my new site:

http://www.urbanophile.com/

Design by ablerock.

Great new look!

So I've begun work on a blog. As for a focus, Im still narrowing it down. I would venture to say there will be a centrality revolving around issues in Indy's Young Adult community,(18 - 25 range), along with items of cultural significance, the progressive music scene in Indianapolis and the Immediate midwest ( Cincy, Michigan, Indiana,). Basically the happenings of Indianapolis from a 19 year olds point of view.

I've contemplated a viral marketing of this site to build up interest along the streetscape. Perhaps Some kinda radical, militant letter to the editor campaign in collusion with word of mouth and street art haha. I want the site to be an epicenter of conversation as well as controversy (if the general public is reading it shouldn't be too hard) while still keeping an intellectual integrity about it. Any thoughts or words of encouragement for a first time blogger ?

Blogging can be extremely time consuming, but its a labor or love I suppose. My blog is a little different in the fact that I spend much less time doing the actual blogging as opposed to wandering and photographing as many corners of Indianapolis as I can. To me, blogging is a great way to challenge and learn more about yourself.

The new site looks GREAT man! Much more professional looking... which is logical given the quality of knowledge contained therein.

Good job guys!

Since everyone is pimping their sites, I updated my signature to show mine. While not as informative as some of your guys, its got lots of pictures. haha

My friend discovered this nice Indy news aggregator:

http://indianapolis.cityandpress.com/

Saves some time, nice layout, good way to get your local mainstream media fix.

My friend discovered this nice Indy news aggregator:

http://indianapolis.cityandpress.com/

Saves some time, nice layout, good way to get your local mainstream media fix.

Wow... that site is an assault on the senses. Sure there is a lot of info, but what a poorly designed website.

^^^^^^^^^^

I disagree. I really don't like that news sites are so graphics intensive. I really like how the site is layed out. The NY Times and CNN (well they actually changed the site last weekend) have similar layouts.

I like my news like I like my cities... Dense. One picture on the front page and the rest should be in the stories.

http://www.tech-faq.com/emoticons/animated-emoticons/smiley_04.gif (http://www.tech-faq.com/emoticons/animated-emoticons/emoticons.shtml) Tonight the Indianapolis city council is voting to ban smoking in all bars and restaurants. The only exception would be for cigar and hookah bars. The Indianapolis Chamber of Commerce is endorsing the expansion of the existing ban. This is a great move for the city and a healthy Indianapolis will encourage growth. Lets hope that it passes and is put in place soon!


IBJ Smoking Ban Article (http://www.ibj.com/smoking-ban-proposal-heads-for-vote/PARAMS/article/10744)


Indy Star Smoking Ban Article (http://www.indystar.com/article/20091026/NEWS05/910260355/Vote+tonight+on+tougher+workplace+smoking+ban)

Interesting move here by Lilly in the IBJ:

Lilly to move 1,000 from Faris campus

Eli Lilly and Co. will move all the employees at its Faris campus on South Meridian Street in Indianapolis to its Lilly Corporate Center complex on South Delaware Street, the company announced today.

Lilly’s ongoing staff cuts are rendering some of its downtown office space unneeded, and the company wants to locate its employees on the same campus as part of a new business structure.

IBJ reported on Lilly’s relocation discussions in August, after the company hired CB Richard Ellis to lease the 465,000 square feet on the Faris campus. The office complex opened in 2002, costing $58 million.

The site is listed as still available on CB Richard Ellis’ Web site. Lilly said it would not be finished moving its employees until mid-2010.

First, Lilly will renovate a building on its corporate campus to house the Faris employees. The renovation will do away with cubicles and include more open work settings and common areas. Lilly hopes the new office environment will help its employees collaborate better as they work to launch and market new drugs.

In September, Lilly formalized that strategy under the name Development Center of Excellence. It also said it would cut 5,500 jobs worldwide in the next two years.

“Collocating a critical mass of our Indianapolis-based Development Center of Excellence employees, discovery & clinical research teams, and business unit employees will better enable us to deliver improved outcomes to individual patients as soon as possible,” said Lilly CEO John Lechleiter in a statement.

if the city council is really concerned about the health and welfare of workers, why should cigar and hookah bars be exempt? oh, yeah, because basically only rich white people go there.

i don't smoke, but i would be extremely pissed if i owned a business and smoked and was told i couldn't smoke in it or have smoking in it.

To clarify, I'm cheap, so I'll tolerate slow service for a good price, but I'm not sure about everyone else.

haha, if you are cheap what the hell are you doing at scotty's? go to front page.

http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=11307532


i noticed they started on this. they refinished the wood doors and the entryways. looks nice!

if the city council is really concerned about the health and welfare of workers, why should cigar and hookah bars be exempt? oh, yeah, because basically only rich white people go there.

i don't smoke, but i would be extremely pissed if i owned a business and smoked and was told i couldn't smoke in it or have smoking in it.

I agree that cigar and hookah bars should be included, however, your 'rich white people' remark seems rather bitter.
I know black and hispanic people who go to hookah bars and smoke cigars.

The very reason for being in the cigar/hookah bar business is to sell smoking products, so exempting them makes sense. Bars mostly sell alcohol and food and allow people to smoke cigarettes that they (for the most part) bought elsewhere. It is non-essential to the business of running a standard bar to allow smoking.

Wow... that site is an assault on the senses. Sure there is a lot of info, but what a poorly designed website.

You've got to be kidding, that's about as un-assaulting as a website gets. If by "assaulting," you mean boring, I feel you. But it's certainly not hard on the eyes. The sites that it's pulling content from, now those are "assaulting!"

Well i guess I have to say something now that i've been stereotyped as a rich white kid because i patronize the local hookah bar. I typically don't try to validate smoking, simply because it is a matter of choice. Of course i don't agree with this ban. I think it's representative of a disturbing trend: Government increasingly regulating human behavior. If you agree with the "altruistic" nature of this ban, and believe it truly is for the good of public health, then i ask: Should Government control Volume levels in your car and your headphones due to the obvious associations with hearing loss? Should our television, video game, and Internet usage be capped to prevent obesity rates from rising? In the same light, Do you agree with Taxing juice, soda, and sports drinks? It couldn't be that gluttony is promoted by the media to encourage consumerism, or that parent teacher associations should take the responsibility to address their local student populations. Maybe We should do away with driving, after all 43,313 people were killed in automobiles last year alone, that’s not even counting the cancer related deaths that smog, and pollution put out by cars kill off as well. Why don’t we adequately fund and mandate every one use public transit to avoid those deaths. Clearly we should just let the government decide for the entirety of the greater community and country. Clearly the general public can’t be trusted with making decisions. They just end up killing people.

My point being, I don’t see this as an issue of public health but rather a fundamental issue pertaining to government and its ever increasing presence in individual’s every day life. The Intent of the chamber of commerce, acting as an income-maximizing rational economic agent by means of promoting a healthier image of the city, is noble, however; I think if enforced ( Which is almost an insurmountable task), this has the potential to really hurt areas such as broad ripple, where you’re smokers are some of your biggest patrons, after all they’ve been kicked out of everywhere else, they have to go somewhere. “But Not everyone smokes at a bar. I shouldn’t have to smell your smoke.” Well I shouldn’t have to deal with the belligerent co-ed who got into the bar with her looks rather than an id, and is vomiting in the street. I shouldn’t have to deal with self righteous frat boy who’s looking to take his problems out on somebody else because he’s consumed enough of a depressant (alcohol) to realize just how much he hates himself for letting a bunch nut job jocks beat his ass with a wooden plank in some oddly, dare is say, homoerotic, ritual. Why is the alcoholic housewife here on a Thursday night, what about the kids she’s left at home, devoid of supervision? If one tolerates these kind of social deviants, why isn’t the smoker tolerated? They are patrons too.

Being 19 I’m apparently deemed unfit and mentally not capable of dealing with the realities and responsibilities that come with being in such a place, so this law wouldn’t even effect me for 2 more years. It’s not as if I’m trying to justify a reason to get “even more effed up.” I simply, as a citizen am expressing my concern that the anti smoking campaign has become a poster child of regulation to come. It seems as thought we’ve lost faith in our fellow man/woman(‘s) ability to moderate their own lives. Which is a disturbing social situation in its own right. Pass this ban and it gives precedent for more “health related” legislation, and simultaneously promotes a pessimist view of our citizenry only to further perpetuate the idea we’re not fit to make our own decisions without the man over our shoulder. And with the way this country has progressed the last 8 to 9 years, I’d be watching over my shoulder. Fragile times call for cautious citizens.

Finally I’d like to throw a solute to local hookah bars. If you’ve ever been to one, especially the Egyptian you know they card more responsibly and stricter than most of the bars and restaurants in town. Like actual bars and other commercial establishment, every hookah bar is different, and granted the one at 96th and allisonville is loaded with the homogenized fishers demographic (rich white kids), that’s simply a byproduct of white flight and a symptom of that suburb, not the reflection of your realistic hookah user. Don't let that be the basis for your opinion on all hookah bars. The Egyptian most certainly isn't full of these rich white kids. It actually very well may be the most ethnically diverse establishment I patronize here in the city of Indianapolis. It's hard to find an establishment in 2009 run by Arab Americans where they themselves are not stereotyped, yet its happening right here, in Broad Ripple. Not to mention the African Americans population present, the meshing of young and old, gay and straight. I don't see how a business that encourages that type of interaction is frowned upon and now considered taboo in 2009. If anything the Egyptian stands as a testament to globalization’s economic and cultural benefits and the thriving international population indy seems to have laying low under the radar.
That’s just my opinion though. Rant over.


I would also like to extensively thank everyone for the advice regarding this upstarting blog im working on, Things might be slightly delayed as i was involved in the hit end, of a hit and run this past friday on 38th st, but i figured i'd write this whole schpeel up to test the waters, get a feel for writing in that blog format.

Swimn you make a good point, but there is also a very large vocal group of people who are very supportive of the smoking ban because to put it plainly, it sucks to go out and drink socially and be coughing the whole time and go home with a laundry load full of smoke smelling clothes.

I play in a band. I play bars. I have drank socially for years and I tolerate smoking, but I tell ya one thing, it wont bother me ONE BIT to see it go away.

Most places put a door in and a patio or something for there patrons to smoke anyway. You can make the argument that they shouldnt "have to" but for once, this is a time where I agree with the government making laws for the people.

Anyone see this news about the condos on mass ave and the abandoned one on college?
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091027/BUSINESS/91026030/757+Mass+Ave.+condo+lands+buyer

Maybe We should do away with driving, after all 43,313 people were killed in automobiles last year alone, that’s not even counting the cancer related deaths that smog, and pollution put out by cars kill off as well. Why don’t we adequately fund and mandate every one use public transit to avoid those deaths. Clearly we should just let the government decide for the entirety of the greater community and country. Clearly the general public can’t be trusted with making decisions. They just end up killing people.

The issue with smoking in public is it is a health risk for other humans around you, if you want to go and harm yourself that is fine, and I believe you should have every freedom to do so; however, the issue with smoking in public spaces is that it harms other human beings.
If you want to sit on the internet and get obese, that’s fine, because you are not directly harming other human beings.
I do think pollution should be regulated as a matter of public health, the smog and disease is horrible for human beings and should be decreased as much as possible so there is a livable environment for us and future generations.
As far as cars go, we can encourage and develop more public transportation, but we cannot stop people from driving cars.
The general public is trusted with decisions and that is why this isn’t a dictatorship, but there are still problems that cannot be dealt with by individuals alone.
It isn’t a government takeover, it is the public wanting good health, and BTW, this is a democracy, this ‘government takeover’ is up to the public.



My point being, I don’t see this as an issue of public health but rather a fundamental issue pertaining to government and its ever increasing presence in individual’s every day life. The Intent of the chamber of commerce, acting as an income-maximizing rational economic agent by means of promoting a healthier image of the city, is noble, however; I think if enforced ( Which is almost an insurmountable task), this has the potential to really hurt areas such as broad ripple, where you’re smokers are some of your biggest patrons, after all they’ve been kicked out of everywhere else, they have to go somewhere. “But Not everyone smokes at a bar. I shouldn’t have to smell your smoke.” Well I shouldn’t have to deal with the belligerent co-ed who got into the bar with her looks rather than an id, and is vomiting in the street. I shouldn’t have to deal with self righteous frat boy who’s looking to take his problems out on somebody else because he’s consumed enough of a depressant (alcohol) to realize just how much he hates himself for letting a bunch nut job jocks beat his ass with a wooden plank in some oddly, dare is say, homoerotic, ritual. Why is the alcoholic housewife here on a Thursday night, what about the kids she’s left at home, devoid of supervision? If one tolerates these kind of social deviants, why isn’t the smoker tolerated? They are patrons too.

It is a matter of public health, if the government tells someone they can’t punch themselves in the chest that isn’t justified, however, smoking affects other peoples health, the depressed jock or stupid teenage girl do not (unless they get violent).

Being 19 I’m apparently deemed unfit and mentally not capable of dealing with the realities and responsibilities that come with being in such a place, so this law wouldn’t even effect me for 2 more years. It’s not as if I’m trying to justify a reason to get “even more effed up.” I simply, as a citizen am expressing my concern that the anti smoking campaign has become a poster child of regulation to come. It seems as thought we’ve lost faith in our fellow man/woman(‘s) ability to moderate their own lives. Which is a disturbing social situation in its own right. Pass this ban and it gives precedent for more “health related” legislation, and simultaneously promotes a pessimist view of our citizenry only to further perpetuate the idea we’re not fit to make our own decisions without the man over our shoulder. And with the way this country has progressed the last 8 to 9 years, I’d be watching over my shoulder. Fragile times call for cautious citizens.

You got all of this from a smoking ban?

I moved to Indy from Lexington, KY 4 months ago and so far love it! It has really surpassed my expectations. Having said that my biggest complaint has to be smoking in bars. Lexington banned it almost 8 years ago and it has not hurt business one bit in fact there are more bars now than when I graduated from UK 9 years ago. Louisville also banned smoking several years ago and not everyone was happy about it, but it has not been an issue in the least. The smokers still find a way to smoke and everyone else is provided a nice smoke free environment and go home without their throat hurting or clothes smelling.

Having gone out several times in Indy I forgot just how annoying and undesirable smoking in bars is. Trust me even my friends who smoke have come around and now would never go back to the days when smoking was allowed. It is a much better experience all around! Indy needs to step up and ban smoking already.

I moved to Indy from Lexington, KY 4 months ago and so far love it! It has really surpassed my expectations. Having said that my biggest complaint has to be smoking in bars. Lexington banned it almost 8 years ago and it has not hurt business one bit in fact there are more bars now than when I graduated from UK 9 years ago. Louisville also banned smoking several years ago and not everyone was happy about it, but it has not been an issue in the least. The smokers still find a way to smoke and everyone else is provided a nice smoke free environment and go home without their throat hurting or clothes smelling.

Having gone out several times in Indy I forgot just how annoying and undesirable smoking in bars is. Trust me even my friends who smoke have come around and now would never go back to the days when smoking was allowed. It is a much better experience all around! Indy needs to step up and ban smoking already.

The standard libertarian argument is that if there were really that much demand for non-smoking bars and nightclubs, the market would develop one and it would be so successful that others would follow. Surely not every bar/club owner is unwilling to take such a risk...

Likewise, an entrepreneur should be allowed to offer a "smoking" establishment if that's where s/he thinks the market is.

It's not as if you don't know when you go to a bar or club that smoking is allowed. And the "workplace" argument is fallacious: no one is forced to be a server or employee in such a place; the workers know what it is when they apply. There are plenty of restaurants where cooks, bartenders, and servers can work without being exposed to smoke if it is an issue for them.

Yet, I understand and support the general public-building and public-property smoking ban for reasons of choice and public policy: one is occasionally forced to go to government offices, and there shouldn't be any smoking in such a place. Likewise, I support the ability of private building owners to ban smoking on their (private) property.

But regarding bars and clubs, I agree on this one with Swimn. I don't like smoke, so I don't go to bars where it's allowed. I go to restaurants that have a bar if I want to belly up. But I don't want the gubermint making the choice for me. :cheers:

Well, a couple of bars that I frequent went smoke free on their own and the response has been very positive. Apparently they surveyed patrons and even the smokers agreed it would be good. When I woke Saturday morning and had to take a friend back to his car, it was nice to put on the clothes from the night before and not smell like an ashtray.

If you want to give yourself cancer that is fine. But in a public place there are rules of engagement. Health codes, building codes, disability accommodations, etc. This has nothing to do with government control of a business. It has to do with public safety. Businesses already comply with basic rules of trade. If you do business in society you have an obligation to that society. This is not telling any one to change their businesses, its telling patrons to smoke outside. It makes sense.

Further, big business likes to locate in cities with progressive health initiatives. They know that healthy cities improve their image and will reduce their overall health care costs. Indy needs to catch up with the proactive cities on this one!

Off the contentious topic of the smoking ban, looks like another workshop for the 22nd & monon deal this week

http://www.smartgrowthindy.org/workshop/index.html

With airport hotel stalled, Hendricks County makes its move

Hendricks County’s moves to entice a developer to build a conference hotel in Plainfield could further crimp plans for a hotel attached to the new Indianapolis International Airport terminal.

The Hendricks County Convention and Visitors Bureau is offering up to 18 acres in Plainfield and a potentially lucrative government incentive package for the development of a 200-room hotel with meeting space at the intersection of Interstate 70 and Highway 267.

The group, which is funded with a county hotel tax, already owns a 10-acre site at the intersection and said it may buy another eight acres.

If a deal materializes, it probably would slow plans for a high-end airport hotel—but the Hendricks County property also could be vulnerable once an airport hotel is built, said Mark Eble, a hotel consultant and regional vice president in the local office of PKF Consulting.

The market for hotels is miserable—particularly for those near airports. Hotels near O’Hare in Chicago have seen revenues plummet by 20 to 30 percent this year, Eble said. But governments have a way of making things happen since developers are always willing to build with someone else’s money.

“It’s just a tough time to get anything done in the hotel world,” Eble said. “The things that are getting done are getting done with attractive incentives. It all depends on what the county offers.”

The Hendricks County group points to a study it commissioned from Wayzata, Minn.-based Conventions, Sports & Leisure International in 2008 that predicted the county could see an economic boost of $20.5 million in direct and indirect spending from a conference center and hotel.
But Eble said the study relies on numbers from 2007, “the best year for the hotel business in a generation.” So far 2009 has been the worst, he added.

The proposed hotel in Plainfield would be about the same size as one that was supposed to open at the airport this year, a $50-million, 250-room Westin attached to the terminal.

The airport authority in 2007 approved spending $8.8 million to help fund construction of the hotel, which would feature about 15,000 square feet of meeting space. The board had chosen locally based Mansur Real Estate Services from among three potential developers.

But the proposal derailed after Mayor Greg Ballard unseated Bart Peterson and installed a new regime to oversee the Indianapolis Airport Authority. While the new administration tried to put together its own deal, hotel occupancies fell and financing dried up for new projects.

“The biggest problem for the airport is traffic—it’s a beautiful facility and not enough airplanes are coming in,” Eble said.

The airport hotel would take at least 18 months to build, so it couldn’t open until 2011 at the earliest. Meanwhile, several new hotels already are opening near the Indianapolis airport, including a Hampton Inn & Suites and Hilton Garden Inn at the Interstate 70 airport exit. Another 300-room hotel is in the works as part of the Purdue Accelerator Park at Ameriplex Indianapolis, south of I-70 directly across from the terminal.

The second hand smoke research is extremely weak. In fact, a federal court ordered the EPA to toss out the most famous study that was used as justification for a number of initial smoking bans because it was not rigorous enough.

The same types of "externality" arguments are used for anything and everything people want to ban. For example, claiming violence video games promote violence or that pornography contributes to sex crimes. (The other argument is always the "addiction" one - that no one could possible voluntarily choose to eat all that junk food, for example, but were hoodwinked by marketing and such).

The reality is, few people really care about the evidence one way or another. Whether you think banning a particular activity is the greatest thing ever or an unholy intrusion on liberty depends almost entirely on your intrinsic personal view of the activity in my opinion.

http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/26/safest-cities-ten-lifestyle-real-estate-metros-msa_chart.html?partner=yahoore

Whether you think banning a particular activity is the greatest thing ever or an unholy intrusion on liberty depends almost entirely on your intrinsic personal view of the activity in my opinion.

I think smoking is a vile, filthy habit, and I don't do it.

But I do think we have enough legislated smoking bans. As CoryW points out above, bars that changed over on their own didn't die on the vine. Kudos to those owners for being gutsy enough to try it.

EddieB, bars are not a fully public place and they are not places one goes by accident. Minors aren't allowed, so everyone who does go is presumed to be a consenting adult, legally capable of and liable for his/her own decisions about adult activities. Including drinking and smoking.

When "they" come for your Coke and Twinkies and Halloween candy, I'll be supporting out-of-favor behavior then too even though I'm not overweight or diabetic.

Maybe, before it's too late, baby boomers should make a legally-enforceable dress code based on the book "Dress for Success" and 80's preppy fashions, as I hate seeing muffin tops, uncovered tattoos, t-shirts, torn jeans, sagging cargo shorts (especially when there's a beer gut) and flip-flops in public places or in workplaces. :lol:

Fountain Square getting an "extreme community makeover" from the Millard Fuller Legacy Build 2010 program.

http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=11392257

Thats pretty awesome!!

I see that the same haters from the indystar.com comments section have made it over there too...

I am a 22 year old smoker and COMPLETELY support a smoking ban and it is for the exact reason that our new resident orangecard pointed out! Smoking is seen as a derogatory social engagement and we do need anymore negative advertisement in Indianapolis for visitors and residents alike.

^^ Do you mean "Don't Need"? ^^

I'm with Thunder, CDC Guy, & the other similar voices on this one.

If it's about public health, we should certainly regulate how loud the dance music or the band is, because I want to go out to the "hip" club, but I don't want my hearing damaged. Don't I have a right to both? And what of the employees of the club? Sure, everyone could try ear plugs, but they might not be able to hear their friends or co-workers shouting in their ears.

If it's simply about what the majority of the public wants, then what gets banned next? Rap music? Profanity? Stripping? Drag shows? Lots of people don't like those activities either.

Maybe someone should compile a list of non-smoking bars and then everyone patronize them. Wouldn't it be refreshing (pardon the pun) and progressive to be the first City where the majority of bars went smoke free without a government ban?

More good rehab news in crown hill area
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091028/BUSINESS/910280332/1003/BUSINESS/Battered+Crown+Hill+area+getting+new+life

The reality is, few people really care about the evidence one way or another. Whether you think banning a particular activity is the greatest thing ever or an unholy intrusion on liberty depends almost entirely on your intrinsic personal view of the activity in my opinion.

I particularly agree with the second sentence here, though I would expand this statement to all legislation, essentially. Rhetorical skills and the ability to contextualize an argument are far more important than evidence, when viewed from the advocates' angle. It's all emotional, but the most effective advocates mitigate the emotionality of their claims by deftly weaving together the evidence (usually while suppressing any findings that contradict them) to give the argument the appearance of objectivity. I'm guilty of it; I have yet to find a person who isn't.


Nice to hear about the article in Fountain Square, though I'm still not clear on the long-term plans for these rehabbed houses. Did they choose Fountain Square specifically because it's gentrifying and they expect free market buyers?

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/Suhil7rvIoI/AAAAAAAADpE/0FkqdcUQ3EQ/s720/photo.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SuhimJZXaGI/AAAAAAAADpM/OMPX9OJxGEs/s720/photo%203.jpg

I think that the Park looks nice.

Fountain Square getting an "extreme community makeover" from the Millard Fuller Legacy Build 2010 program.

http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=11392257

That area needs all the help it can get, but is that really considered FS? I thought State St. was the east boundary. Either way, good to see positive movement in the area.

I think that the Park looks nice.

I like it as well, but I hate that glistening corner surface parking lot :ohno:

I like it as well, but I hate that glistening corner surface parking lot :ohno:

Parking lots are just future building sites.... progress takes time.

More good rehab news in crown hill area
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091028/BUSINESS/910280332/1003/BUSINESS/Battered+Crown+Hill+area+getting+new+life

As Aaron points out on his blog, CDCs often step into market gaps using government money. In Indy, the city does not "do" housing revitalization; instead, it contracts with the CDCs and other neighborhood-based organizations to do it.

One of the issues heretofore has been scale. Everyone who reads here knows the success of Fall Creek Place at totally making over a bombed-out neighborhood. It works because it is a large-scale effort that totally transforms the neighborhood: infrastructure improvements accompany new and substantially rehabilitated housing.

Near North's program could be described as "Fall Creek Place" light: a smaller footprint, and a slightly lower percentage of properties affected. In support, the city has done some infrastructure work (curbs and sidewalks) but not alleys, sewers, or streets.

This kind of focused transformative effort is different than the usual "a house here, a house there" work that CDCs in Indy often do, and it bears watching. I'm lucky to have a good seat. :)

I like it as well, but I hate that glistening corner surface parking lot :ohno:

That parking lot used to be the Essex Hotel/Apartments. Its parking structure survives in the block behind (on Delaware). From Emporis.com:

Standing for only 44 years, the Essex House Apartments had the shortest lifespan of any high-rise building in Indianapolis.
The last high-rise building in Indianapolis demolished in the 20th Century. The building was last renovated in 1971 with the Charles C. Brandt Construction Company serving as contractor.
In late 2002, the Indianapolis Business Journal reported renewed interest in construction of 407 North Pennsylvania Street, a new high-rise condominium building for this site. No serious proposal has been released, but the city has preferred a tower for this site since demolition of the Essex House Apartments.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://www.orourkewrecking.com/projects/images/essex_1.jpg
http://images.indianahistory.org/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/dc012&CISOPTR=4991&DMSCALE=100.00000&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=%201953&REC=8&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0 http://lh6.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SuiMuEklnsI/AAAAAAAADqo/n0l-f1kso4c/getimage.jpg
http://images.indianahistory.org/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/dc012&CISOPTR=2207&DMSCALE=100.00000&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=%201952&REC=11&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0 http://images.indianahistory.org/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/dc012&CISOPTR=5506&DMSCALE=100.00000&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=%22Automobiles%20%3A%22&REC=6&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0

http://images.indianahistory.org/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/dc012&CISOPTR=5075&DMSCALE=100.00000&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=%22Automobiles%20%3A%22&REC=2&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0

Center Township seeks redevelopment bids for former YMCA
Cory Schouten Indiana Business Journal (http://www.ibj.com/trustee-seeks-redevelopment-of-former-ymca/PARAMS/article/10781)
October 28, 2009

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SuiY2wNUNxI/AAAAAAAADqw/PF7KJkpAW1o/untitled.jpg

The owner of the vacant former Fall Creek YMCA along West 10th Street (Map) (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=860+W.+10th+St&ie=UTF8&gl=us&ei=SZboSuSYLoe9lAffitX_Bw&ved=0CAsQ8gEwAA&hq=&hnear=860+W+10th+St,+Indianapolis,+Marion,+Indiana+46202&ll=39.779964,-86.176779&spn=0.006019,0.013593&t=h&z=17) in Indianapolis is seeking bidders interested in tearing down the building and redeveloping the prime 2-acre site.

Center Township bought the property in 2004, a year after the YMCA closed its branch. It most recently served as a fitness center called Healthplex operated by the Indiana Minority Health Coalition, but the facility closed earlier this year when revenue came up short.

The Center Township Trustee’s Office is looking for a developer interested in a long-term lease with an option to buy the property at 860 W. 10th St., according to a bid packet. The township wants a mixed-use development supporting the Indiana Avenue Cultural District and nearby IUPUI and hospital campuses. The deal would come with a restriction against freestanding fast-food restaurants.

The materials suggest a minimum annual rent of $210,250 for the first five years of a 15-year lease, with two 15-year options, and a minimum ultimate purchase price of $2.9 million. The tenant would pay all expenses.

Five potential buyers have picked up packets so far, said Phillip L. Bayt, a partner at local law firm Ice Miller LLP who represents the township. Bids will be accepted from Nov. 6 to Dec. 4. Township officials would then listen to presentations from two finalists.

Bids will be evaluated based on price, financial strength and experience of the bidder, and the proposed development’s impact on the neighborhood. Market observers say student or senior housing likely would be a component of any development plan.

The former YMCA is one of several land holdings amassed by former Center Township Trustee Carl Drummer. Critics assailed the strategy as divergent from the office’s primary responsibility for poor relief.

It wasn’t clear whether the offering of the YMCA property represents a change in strategy by the current trustee, William Douglas, who did not return a phone message this morning.

The township also is working on a new use for another building it owns at 875 Massachusetts Ave., next to its headquarters. The Riley Area Development Corp. has signed a lease for the site and plans to replace the property with a $9 million residential and retail development.

As for the old YMCA, the trustee’s office paid $1.5 million in 2004 for the 50,500-square-foot building, which appraised at the time for $2.4 million. The trustee’s office spent about $175,000 on renovations and turned over operations to the Minority Health Coalition. The group operated a fee-based fitness center and paid some rent, but the township continued to shoulder most of the $100,000 in annual operating expenses.

The YMCA of Greater Indianapolis closed the Fall Creek branch in 2003, a move that led some to question the organization’s commitment to low-income neighborhoods. But the YMCA said its membership base simply had migrated elsewhere. It has promised to build a new branch in Pike Township.

This parcel being placed on the market should coincide with an evaluation of the pedestrian infrastructure in the area around Bloch Cancer Survivors Park. As I've said before, I think a long-term vision for this area should include a "town square" feel around the Park, with pedestrian mobility as the primary focus. The Wishard frontage on Indiana will certainly be reimagined once (assuming?) IUPUI takes over the hospital.

For example: reconfigure the 10th St. frontage with on-street parking, eliminate of the right-turn lane from 10th to Indiana and add curb bumps to aid pedestrian crossings. Reducing a travel lane on 10th is certainly a non-starter, so we should cut into the YMCA land for the parking lane NOW, while Center Township still owns the land.

I agree that now is the time to plan ahead... getting anyone to actually consider making this area more foot traffic friendly is going to be a battle though. Currently it is a horrible intersection to navigate on foot!

Also, I was reading an Indy Star (maybe it was IBJ) article about the IUPUI stadiums (possibly demoing the tennis center and building a convention center style sports venue) and the article mentioned that IUPUI has no plans to increase its current footprint. I don't know if the hospitals are currently considered part of IUPUI campus due to their close proximity and partnerships with the med school. I think the new campus master plan is going to be done sometime early 2010...

I should have brought it with me, but I was in scheduling my spring classes at IUPUI yesterday, and was reading a magazine detailing some of the current achievements and plans for the future. They have a real commitment to making a nice campus.

Somewhere I have a 40+ page power point of the older comprehensive campus plan. It was very dense with taller buildings than one would expect. (something like 5 or 6 8-10 story buildings) I will look for it, and if I find it I will put it up here...

IUPUI has been fairly aggressive with its growth plan. Over the past 5 or so years they have added the Law building, IT building, Herron, the student center, a few new garages (and now need more), the hospital expansion, demoed the Mary cable building... I am excited to visit after 5-10 more years!


David King (http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/7393.html) was chosen for the newest version of the plan thats due early 2010.

Somewhere I have a 40+ page power point of the older comprehensive campus plan. It was very dense with taller buildings than one would expect. (something like 5 or 6 8-10 story buildings) I will look for it, and if I find it I will put it up here...
The draft master plan is still available on the Office of the Chancellor webpae:

http://www.iupui.edu/administration/chancellor/masterplan/

IUPUI has been fairly aggressive with its growth plan. Over the past 5 or so years they have added the Law building, IT building, Herron, the student center, a few new garages (and now need more), the hospital expansion, demoed the Mary cable building... I am excited to visit after 5-10 more years!
There's an entry on the IU Major Construction Projects list for "California St. Parking Garage." It's listed as 1300 spaces and in Design Phase.

Also in Design Phase is "Power Lines on West Street." That project is listed as an "Estimation" so I'd guess that IUPUI is just exploring the possibility of burying the lines, not necessarily that it's going to happen anytime soon. The fact that someone is thinking about it is a good sign, though.

This parcel being placed on the market should coincide with an evaluation of the pedestrian infrastructure in the area around Bloch Cancer Survivors Park. As I've said before, I think a long-term vision for this area should include a "town square" feel around the Park, with pedestrian mobility as the primary focus. The Wishard frontage on Indiana will certainly be reimagined once (assuming?) IUPUI takes over the hospital.

For example: reconfigure the 10th St. frontage with on-street parking, eliminate of the right-turn lane from 10th to Indiana and add curb bumps to aid pedestrian crossings. Reducing a travel lane on 10th is certainly a non-starter, so we should cut into the YMCA land for the parking lane NOW, while Center Township still owns the land.

Why not take that 10th St. frontage to use for a trail connector, and use 10th & Indiana as the hub connecting FIVE Indy Trails: Fall Creek, White River, Lower Canal, Cultural, and Upper Canal. See MAP (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ie=UTF8&view=map&msa=0&ll=39.80181,-86.16148&spn=0.066996,0.104198&z=13&msid=106957019702693757948.000477061fc6130b36cb2)

Nice Map! Good idea. Logistically it will be a pain to figure out how to get pedestrian traffic across the giant and weaving intersection, but I think that tying it into all of the trails could actually make it a much more attractive area to live and work in.

With airport hotel stalled, Hendricks County makes its move

But governments have a way of making things happen since developers are always willing to build with someone else’s money.



I would imagine that really lowers the risk.

Am I the only one that thinks its ridiculous to be subsidizing the construction of hotels at either of these locations? What, people are going to fly or drive into the area and spend buckets of money just because a hotel gets built?

The draft master plan is still available on the Office of the Chancellor webpae:

http://www.iupui.edu/administration/chancellor/masterplan/


There's an entry on the IU Major Construction Projects list for "California St. Parking Garage." It's listed as 1300 spaces and in Design Phase.

Also in Design Phase is "Power Lines on West Street." That project is listed as an "Estimation" so I'd guess that IUPUI is just exploring the possibility of burying the lines, not necessarily that it's going to happen anytime soon. The fact that someone is thinking about it is a good sign, though.

The Univ just vacated the remnant of North Street, east of Blackford Street to build a parking garage on top of the street. It seems that might make it difficult to reconnect North & California Streets to Indiana Avenue as Page 70 of the Master Plan PowerPoint suggests. And I thought super-sized blocks were going out of style.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091029/LOCAL18/910290486/Indy+leaders+looking+for+fresh+ideas+to+revitalize+ailing+City+Market

I wonder if the city leaders actually read our forums once in awhile? :cheers:

More good rehab news in crown hill area
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091028/BUSINESS/910280332/1003/BUSINESS/Battered+Crown+Hill+area+getting+new+life

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091029/NEWS/910290468/Initiative+hopes+to+develop+plan+to+renew+neighborhood :)

Nice Map! Good idea. Logistically it will be a pain to figure out how to get pedestrian traffic across the giant and weaving intersection, but I think that tying it into all of the trails could actually make it a much more attractive area to live and work in.

I'm being pragmatic: I suspect that many green enthusiasts (and likely trail users and bike commuters) in the city will be connected with IUPUI and Clarian. Why not make that intersection the hub of all the city's trails?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://www.orourkewrecking.com/projects/images/essex_1.jpg
http://images.indianahistory.org/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/dc012&CISOPTR=4991&DMSCALE=100.00000&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=%201953&REC=8&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0 http://lh6.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SuiMuEklnsI/AAAAAAAADqo/n0l-f1kso4c/getimage.jpg
http://images.indianahistory.org/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/dc012&CISOPTR=2207&DMSCALE=100.00000&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=%201952&REC=11&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0 http://images.indianahistory.org/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/dc012&CISOPTR=5506&DMSCALE=100.00000&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=%22Automobiles%20%3A%22&REC=6&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0

http://images.indianahistory.org/cgi-bin/getimage.exe?CISOROOT=/dc012&CISOPTR=5075&DMSCALE=100.00000&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=%22Automobiles%20%3A%22&REC=2&DMTHUMB=1&DMROTATE=0


Thanks for these pics...The Essex should have NEVER been allowed to be demo'd. The lot's owner has got to be kicking themselves now as demand for apartments DT is so strng that this building would be full. The site's location right off of the Mall/Plaza and proximity to Mass Ave make it very desirable.

I believe that about every 2 years the lot's owners have to go before the MDC and ask for an extension on their Regional Center Approval. I believe they were required to redevelop with another highrise.

Whats wrong with non-smokers going to non-smoking establishments and leaving smokers to smoking establishments? I feel that is a fair compromise. I find your argument of public safety to be a bit thin.

I would love to see something be built on the old Essex site but the city keeps dragging its feet on what could be a prime spot for developement.

Whats wrong with non-smokers going to non-smoking establishments and leaving smokers to smoking establishments? I feel that is a fair compromise. I find your argument of public safety to be a bit thin.

It's a hazardous working environment. Factories or offices with that level of pollution would be required to clean up, face fines, or shut down. We can claim that people "choose" to work in those environments, but sometimes people have to take jobs because nothing else is available. Smoking should be banned in all public places as a public health menace. Want to smoke? Go outside, get in your car, or go home.

I would love to see something be built on the old Essex site but the city keeps dragging its feet on what could be a prime spot for developement.

I'm not here to defend “The City” when criticism is warranted, but let's put the blame for this one in the right place.

As I recall, "The City" denied the last request to keep the surface parking lot legal on this site a couple of years ago. That decision was overturned by a judge after an appeal.

The only people "dragging their feet" are the absentee owners of the property and their attorneys. The one positive in all of this was that the judge’s decision was to grant temporary approval for the parking lot, because that is what the owners originally asked for. Whenever that temporary approval expires in a year or two, “The City” and anyone else objecting to the parking lot will have another chance to argue against it, and hopefully be armed with enough facts to 1.) get the parking lot denied, and 2.) ensure that any appeal of that decision will be unsuccessful.

Has any one heard anything positive about One Market Square (http://www.emporis.com/application/?nav=building&id=203973)?


http://www.lostindiana.net/Lost_Indiana/Lost_Indiana__Market_Square_Arena_files/msa3large.jpg http://www.lostindiana.net/Lost_Indiana/Lost_Indiana__Market_Square_Arena_files/msa1large.jpg http://www.lostindiana.net/Lost_Indiana/Lost_Indiana__Market_Square_Arena_files/msa4large.jpg
http://www2.indystar.com/users/multimedia/galleries/buyphotos/sliceoflife/0213632_2.jpg http://www.nssxcorp.com/projects/market_square/Mkt%20Square2_mini.jpg http://www.emporis.com/images/5/2006/04/452214.jpg


It seems like there has been little talk since the original project died in 2006. Is there any push to get the site developed or under construction before the 2011 2012 super bowl? What is the biggest obstacle? It seems like this would be prime development space that has been sitting for way too long. I think the west east side of DT is suffering greatly from it.

Post any articles or info if you could! Or just point me in the right direction. Thanks.

Has any one heard anything positive about One Market Square (http://www.emporis.com/application/?nav=building&id=203973)?


http://www.lostindiana.net/Lost_Indiana/Lost_Indiana__Market_Square_Arena_files/msa3large.jpg http://www.lostindiana.net/Lost_Indiana/Lost_Indiana__Market_Square_Arena_files/msa1large.jpg http://www.lostindiana.net/Lost_Indiana/Lost_Indiana__Market_Square_Arena_files/msa4large.jpg
http://www2.indystar.com/users/multimedia/galleries/buyphotos/sliceoflife/0213632_2.jpg http://www.nssxcorp.com/projects/market_square/Mkt%20Square2_mini.jpg http://www.emporis.com/images/5/2006/04/452214.jpg


It seems like there has been little talk since the original project died in 2006. Is there any push to get the site developed or under construction before the 2011 super bowl? What is the biggest obstacle? It seems like this would be prime development space that has been sitting for way too long. I think the west side of DT is suffering greatly from it.

Post any articles or info if you could! Or just point me in the right direction. Thanks.

West side? The east side where Market Square was, is missing this development and I think Penn Center has been on hold awhile.

^^ To EddieB317 -- sorry to be picky, but, the Super Bowl in Indy is in 2012.

Anyway -- the only effort related to this site is to get the former Bank One processing center site (one block further to the East from the MSA site) redeveloped. It is the dilapidated block with weeds growing up around it. Plans are moving forward for getting that abandoned building turned into a new 4 - 6 story apartment complex with some commercial on a portion of the first floor.

When that project happens (it just received approval from the MDC for some sort of tax abatement that should help it get started soon, I believe), it will improve the neighborhood and enhance the developability of the two blocks that are where the former MSA sat. No big effort is currently underway right now to get those two blocks redeveloped - but hopefully, with the improvements to the east, one of the developers that proposed a plan for the site four or five years ago - will come back to present their plan for the site once again - now that the economy is beginning to get better.

The Essex should have NEVER been allowed to be demo'd. The lot's owner has got to be kicking themselves now as demand for apartments DT is so strng that this building would be full. The site's location right off of the Mall/Plaza and proximity to Mass Ave make it very desirable.

I was in the building shortly before it closed in the early 1980s. That part of town was dead and scary then. No one could have afforded to float that property for 20 years; it would likely have been turned into low-income housing or maybe even a Barton Tower style project.

Plus, it's the worst possible combination of commie-block brutalism and mid-century modern. It was neither, and it was fugly.

There's an entirely separate question of how to get something tall built there. You can't force the owners to build a 10-story tower. MAYBE the city could condemn the lot and put out a development RFP. But without more massive gap-filling subsidies, the outcome will be the same as the Market Square site: parking lot as land bank.

In the case of really high-profile important properties like these two, building nothing is the right thing to do until the market comes back enough to allow a good development (instead of more 3-story townhouses).

It's a hazardous working environment. Factories or offices with that level of pollution would be required to clean up, face fines, or shut down. We can claim that people "choose" to work in those environments, but sometimes people have to take jobs because nothing else is available. Smoking should be banned in all public places as a public health menace. Want to smoke? Go outside, get in your car, or go home.

cjf, no one is forced to take a bartending or serving job in a smoking establishment. The vast majority of Indiana's restaurants are already non-smoking, and those same jobs exist there in abundance.

The workplace argument is weak at best, and a straw-man at its worst. There is no "right to work anywhere you want" in Indiana.

I was in the building shortly before it closed in the early 1980s. That part of town was dead and scary then. No one could have afforded to float that property for 20 years; it would likely have been turned into low-income housing or maybe even a Barton Tower style project.

Plus, it's the worst possible combination of commie-block brutalism and mid-century modern. It was neither, and it was fugly.
Having never seen a picture of the Essex until these went up, I always assumed that it was another lost gem in downtown. Little did I know it was actually damn fugly.

i think it was cory who mentioned something over on IBJ about a lower cost Riley-esque tower. Some lower rate condos/apartments since the market is flooded with the expensive ones.

It would fit great in a space like that. And he has a point. The best way to attract people in is offer space that they can afford.

My wife and I live in So Broad Ripple and would love to live downtown, but its just too expensive to buy something down there that we would find appealing.

It doesnt seem like it would be a stretch to build something that was visually appealing, yet still affordable to middle class types.

Having never seen a picture of the Essex until these went up, I always assumed that it was another lost gem in downtown. Little did I know it was actually damn fugly.

I was working at the Star when it was demolished. It was fun to watch. It was low-income apartments after the hotel and from what I heard wasn't a safe place to live.

I was in the building shortly before it closed in the early 1980s. That part of town was dead and scary then. No one could have afforded to float that property for 20 years; it would likely have been turned into low-income housing or maybe even a Barton Tower style project.

Plus, it's the worst possible combination of commie-block brutalism and mid-century modern. It was neither, and it was fugly.

There's an entirely separate question of how to get something tall built there. You can't force the owners to build a 10-story tower. MAYBE the city could condemn the lot and put out a development RFP. But without more massive gap-filling subsidies, the outcome will be the same as the Market Square site: parking lot as land bank.

In the case of really high-profile important properties like these two, building nothing is the right thing to do until the market comes back enough to allow a good development (instead of more 3-story townhouses).

I can't attest to the condition, but having seen these photos, it doesn't seem like such a great loss. The windowless north ends of the towers look especially bland.

I would agree that more 3-story townhouses in the heart of downtown is definitely not what we need, although I would think (hope) that would not be so likely to happen here with the surrounding taller buildings that would make such development less attractive than at Firehouse Square, or at Capitol & St. Clair. (Does anyone know if that project was approved per the renderings that had been posted online, or were modifications required?)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
30 October 2009

CONTACT
Bruce R. Baird
Indianapolis Housing Agency
317.508.7663
bbaird@indyhousing.org

Progressive Public Housing Agency’s Plans Result in Over $21 Million in Competitive Grants to Support Renovation and Expansion of Affordable Housing in Indianapolis

INDIANAPOLIS – The Indianapolis Housing Agency (IHA), joined today by Ellen Quigley of Congressman Andre Carson’s office, and Deputy Mayor Olgen Williams, announced that the agency was recently awarded over $16 million from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) in a highly competitive round of grants to public housing authorities across the nation.

IHA will use these funds plus an additional $5 million of Capital Funds allocated to IHA earlier in 2009 as one tool in a mixed-source finance package that will allow IHA to carry out progressive plans to preserve, improve, and expand affordable housing in Marion County. These competitive grants – referred to as Capital Fund Recovery Competition grants and included in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) – support capital and management activities of public housing agencies.

In a financing structure that is highly innovative for public housing agencies and is strongly encouraged by HUD, IHA has leveraged, in this first phase, over $20 million in mixed-source financing to renovate over 1,300 units that provide affordable housing for approximately 3,200 low income Indianapolis residents. Using mixed-source financing to invest in public and affordable housing communities – that have seen only minor renovation since their construction in the 1960s and 1970s – offers IHA the financial flexibility to make tangible investments in not only the physical aspects of these properties but also in the human services that support the individuals and families for whom these housing communities are home.

“The Recovery Act is getting our economy back on track by creating jobs that improve our communities for the long-run,“ said Congressman Carson. “This sweeping reinvestment plan by IHA is a great example of this. It puts people back to work revitalizing and expanding our affordable housing communities, which are so critical to the growth of strong families and stable neighborhoods.”

In an initiative referred to as Welcome Home, substantial renovations and upgrades will occur in nine of IHA’s twelve communities, will involve substantial energy efficiency improvements, and are designed to support the return of all existing residents to their homes. IHA also has plans to expand the number of affordable housing units in Indianapolis in ways that are consistent with sustainable urban design strategies and are intentionally conceptualized to physically connect IHA properties and their residents with the neighborhoods in which they are located.

IHA has demonstrated its capacity to successfully secure and employ mixed-source financing to support development initiatives, as evidenced in its recent, award-winning Georgetown and Red Maple Grove projects. IHA’s current Welcome Home initiative will be financed through the use of Low Income Housing Tax Credits, energy efficiency financing, a public housing operating subsidy, and HUD Capital Funds.

IHA submitted five applications to HUD in the ARRA Capital Fund Recovery Competition. Four of those applications were funded and have resulted in a total award of $16,066,000. Specifically:

* $3,740,000 to finance substantial improvements to common areas in Lugar and Barton Towers, Barton Annex, and Indiana Avenue to make them accessible and ADA-compliant in order to improve the delivery of supportive services to the elderly residents and those with disabilities;

* $3,740,000 to invest in substantial energy efficiencies and “green” retrofits at two of IHA’s family communities – Laurelwood Apartments and Rowney Terrace;

* $8,586,000 to support an innovative plan for public housing transformation that creates new public housing units in existing, mixed-income and mixed-use development projects in stable, diverse communities in the urban core.


Blackburn Terrace, the site of today’s announcement, is currently undergoing substantial renovation as part of IHA’s Welcome Home initiative. IHA was awarded Low Income Housing Tax Credits to support the work at Blackburn Terrace, Twin Hills, Rowney Terrace, and Laurelwood Apartments. IHA’s current development and construction partners include: Partners for Affordable Housing (IHA’s nonprofit development entity); CRG Residential/Powers & Sons; and Turner-Davis, A Joint Venture. To date, as a result of the work at these four communities that began in July:

* 61 jobs have been created or retained;
* MBE participation is 17%;
* WBE participation is 1%;
* Eight (8) poverty census tract residents – including one who is re-entering the workforce after incarceration – have been hired to work on the project through IHA’s enforcement of its Section 3 requirements for its contractors; and
* Over $3 million in additional stimulus funds have been invested.

I can't attest to the condition, but having seen these photos, it doesn't seem like such a great loss. The windowless north ends of the towers look especially bland.

It seems to me that the tower might have been designed as part of a pair, where the two blank walls would either join or closely face matching blank walls on a second, northern phase of the project (based on the south ends of the tower having some windows). Looking at the low northern "pod" building floating over parking lot, the architecture is clearly newer than the 1950's tower...in fact, it bears strong family resemblance to the soon-to-be-demolished 70's Bank One Ops Center and the already-demolished 60's St. Vincent "spaceship" wing on Capitol. So maybe the as-built thing as seen in the pictures represents a truncated vision, or an early failure of the tower.

...Capitol & St. Clair. (Does anyone know if that project was approved per the renderings that had been posted online, or were modifications required?)

The RC Hearing Examiner records online show that the project was sent to MDC with an approval recommendation.

It's a hazardous working environment. Factories or offices with that level of pollution would be required to clean up, face fines, or shut down. We can claim that people "choose" to work in those environments, but sometimes people have to take jobs because nothing else is available. Smoking should be banned in all public places as a public health menace. Want to smoke? Go outside, get in your car, or go home.

I'm sorry but that is just LAME!! The current smoking ban is more than sufficient to protect the rights of non-smokers. I find your argument to be a bit pedantic at best. While you have so generously offered me some alternatives let me return the favor. If you do not like cigarette smoke or more to the point the people who smoke maybe you should limit your activities to non-smoking establishments. In all actuality, this is nothing more than a witch hunt hiding behind the weak argument of public health. This is nothing more than an attempt to legislate taste.

I'm not here to defend “The City” when criticism is warranted, but let's put the blame for this one in the right place.

As I recall, "The City" denied the last request to keep the surface parking lot legal on this site a couple of years ago. That decision was overturned by a judge after an appeal.

The only people "dragging their feet" are the absentee owners of the property and their attorneys. The one positive in all of this was that the judge’s decision was to grant temporary approval for the parking lot, because that is what the owners originally asked for. Whenever that temporary approval expires in a year or two, “The City” and anyone else objecting to the parking lot will have another chance to argue against it, and hopefully be armed with enough facts to 1.) get the parking lot denied, and 2.) ensure that any appeal of that decision will be unsuccessful.

I'm not certain about this but I think the city used to own it. They sold it to a company that was going to build on the site. They allowed the company to use it as a pay-lot until a use could be found for it. There was a time limit on it being used for that purpose and it would come up for review every 2-3 years. Apparently, they never intended to build on the site because we still have a parking lot there. All I can say is I wish I could get away with that kind of crap, I'd be a very rich man by now.

This is nothing more than an attempt to legislate taste.

Oh that is horseshit. Smoking not only kills the person doing it, it seriously damages the health of people around them.

You can't take a dump in public and you shouldn't be allowed to smoke either.

My city of residence, Bloomington, has a comprehensive public smoking ban and the effect on bars and restaurants has been negligible at worst.

So now that the Pacers will suck once AGAIN, attendance at games will be awful and the team will keep losing money.

So the question is how big of a blow to the city would it be if the Pacers left?

Indianapolis Star:

NCAA expansion will contain costs

Growth in sports agency spurs project to double office and meeting space by 2012
By Bruce C. Smith
Posted: October 31, 2009


Overcrowded with a growing staff, the NCAA headquarters in White River State Park will double in size via a $35 million expansion to be under construction by next spring.

The executive committee of the National Collegiate Athletic Association agreed this week to go ahead with the project, which was planned under the administration of the NCAA's late president, Myles Brand, who died Sept. 16.
Advertisement

Bob Williams, managing director of public and media relations for the NCAA, said Friday that the 130,000-square-foot expansion will include offices and meeting space.

The new structure will be a separate building on the west side of the current 116,000-square-foot headquarters, linked by a second-floor bridge.

When complete, the NCAA campus at 700 W. Washington St. will include three buildings: the existing national headquarters built in 1999, the proposed addition to open in mid-2012 and the existing 30,000-square-foot Hall of Champions and convention center.

The proposed expansion roughly doubles the office and meeting space for the national association staff.

Williams said the current building was constructed for about 350 employees and was expected to contain the operations over 20 years. However, in less than 10 years, there now are about 500 working for the NCAA.

That includes about 70 people in the Eligibility Center, which is in a warehouse-turned-office-building near 16th Street and the White River, about a mile from the main building.

No fundraising campaign is expected for the building project. Williams said it will be financed with about $2 million a year that is currently budgeted for rental space and other savings.

The glass-and-brick exterior design of the four-story building is intended to complement the existing building.

Much of the ground floor will have meeting and conference rooms and related facilities, so that the national organization's meetings can all be held here.

"In an effort to curtail costs, we are setting a goal of holding 95 percent of the association's meetings in Indianapolis. We have all sorts of committees and other groups, and they have met in locations all around the country," Williams said.

"Bringing all of that to Indianapolis is a cost containment. But in order to do that, we have to ensure that we have adequate meeting space here.":banana::banana:

Oh that is horseshit. Smoking not only kills the person doing it, it seriously damages the health of people around them.
.

:cheers:

^^

Anyway -- the only effort related to this site is to get the former Bank One processing center site (one block further to the East from the MSA site) redeveloped. It is the dilapidated block with weeds growing up around it. Plans are moving forward for getting that abandoned building turned into a new 4 - 6 story apartment complex with some commercial on a portion of the first floor.


In light of the continued financial woes and debate surrounding the ailing City Market (http://wap.indystar.com/news.jsp?key=548020&rc=th), I have begun a critique of the current design and programming of the facility. The critique includes recognition of the surrounding blocks and development proposals there.

http://dirtamericana.blogspot.com/2009/10/reinventing-indianapolis-city-market.html

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! The second half of the essay, in which I list my proposals in response to the recent article, should be posted in the next day or two.

I keep forgetting that the NCAA headquarters is in Indy. Sometimes I guess I always expect the big deal things to be in other cities. This expansion is good for Indianapolis, and the meetings as well for the city.

Oh that is horseshit. Smoking not only kills the person doing it, it seriously damages the health of people around them.

Drinking kills and damages the lives of people around drinkers, too. Probably more than smoking. Of the 50,000 vehicle fatalities a year, at least half are alcohol-related, and many of the victims weren't the drinker. That doesn't count drunken homicides by other means, or deaths from illnesses caused by alcoholism.

So the public-health solution is to ban drinking and just close the bars, right?

Oh, wait. We tried that once. :cheers:

Drinking kills and damages the lives of people around drinkers, too. Probably more than smoking. Of the 50,000 vehicle fatalities a year, at least half are alcohol-related, and many of the victims weren't the drinker. That doesn't count drunken homicides by other means, or deaths from illnesses caused by alcoholism.

So the public-health solution is to ban drinking and just close the bars, right?

Oh, wait. We tried that once. :cheers:

And the Straw Man Argument of the Year goes to Thundermutt!! Congratulations.

Honey, no one is arguing for smoking to be completely banned. The law is simply a regulation of WHERE people can smoke. If people want to smoke in their own homes or cars, or in the homes or cars of people who are agreeable to their smoking, great. But, they should not be able to smoke in public places where THEIR smoking endangers others' health. And, if you think that's okay, then you should think it's okay to piss on people in public, too. Who knows, maybe you do...

As for drinking, aside from wrecking relationships, it does not harm anyone but the drinker directly, UNLESS the drinker gets behind a wheel. And so, we DO prohibit drinking and driving.

Also, California and other states ban smoking in public places. Interestingly enough, bars and restaurants do just fine. Go to LA, San Francisco, even Sacramento, and the bars are packed. Smokers still go out, they just smoke elsewhere.

If you want to disagree with the smoking bank, fine. Just make honest arguments.

I'm sorry but that is just LAME!! The current smoking ban is more than sufficient to protect the rights of non-smokers. I find your argument to be a bit pedantic at best. While you have so generously offered me some alternatives let me return the favor. If you do not like cigarette smoke or more to the point the people who smoke maybe you should limit your activities to non-smoking establishments. In all actuality, this is nothing more than a witch hunt hiding behind the weak argument of public health. This is nothing more than an attempt to legislate taste.

How is this a "witch hunt," honey? If you want to smoke in your house or car or in the homes or cars of people who permit it, then smoke away. If you want to drink, unless you plan to get behind a wheel, I do NOT care. if you want to shoot up heroin, I honestly have no objection to your doing it (again, as long as you stay away from a car).

I just don't think you should be able to pollute the air of those around you with carcinogens. It's similar to how I don't think factories should be able to pollute the air, and so I support regulation of factory pipes, too.

Quite frankly, with all the hundreds of millions of dollars cigarette companies have wasted on PR and fighting regulations, they should have just devoted the money to R&D and come up with a "smokeless" cigarette which doesn't release toxins into the air. It could have been on the market years ago if they had properly channeled their vast resources.

Finally, if you need nicotine, then feel free to chew tobacco (or nicotine gum for that matter). I don't care if you get cancer or don't get cancer. Why? It's not about you or smokers in general. I have friends and family members who smoke. I even have ex-partners who smoke. They just know not to smoke around me, and none of them ever complained about feeling like they were subject to a "witch hunt." I think everyone is entitled to their vices----in private.

^^ Good work, 'roo.

Here's my question: why aren't we calling for legislation to ban smoking in cars and homes with residents under the age of 18? Those would seem to be the defenseless victims of secondhand smoke. Has any jurisdiction implemented such a ban? And why wouldn't that be a priority over keeping consenting adults from deciding to socialize or work among other consenting adults who choose to smoke? Is it because the rest of us adults who make the laws don't have to be bothered by the secondhand smoke that is being inhaled by defenseless minors in a car or home? Think about that one for a minute or two, will ya?

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009910310373


http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/26/safest-cities-ten-lifestyle-real-estate-metros-msa.html

http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/26/safest-cities-ten-lifestyle-real-estate-metros-msa_chart.html

Here's my question: why aren't we calling for legislation to ban smoking in cars and homes with residents under the age of 18? Those would seem to be the defenseless victims of secondhand smoke. Has any jurisdiction implemented such a ban? And why wouldn't that be a priority over keeping consenting adults from deciding to socialize or work among other consenting adults who choose to smoke? Is it because the rest of us adults who make the laws don't have to be bothered by the secondhand smoke that is being inhaled by defenseless minors in a car or home? Think about that one for a minute or two, will ya?

Sounds like a good law to have, in my book.

RE: Indy safety, I've had my car stolen once, and broken into once, and both happened to be times when I was visiting Indy for less than one day. I lived in the suburbs for a total of 3 months, and have lived many other places, but I've only been robbed twice, both in Indy.

I saw the rendering for the NCAA expansion, and I like it! Looks very nice, its a small rendering but it has frontal glass with what looks like to be stone on the side.

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Dato=20091031&Kategori=BUSINESS&Lopenr=910310342&Ref=AR&MaxW=580&MaxH=460&Q=100&Site=BG&MaxW=580&MaxH=600

Architect and developer Craig Von Deylen said he hopes to close next week on the purchase of the Murphy Arts Center in Fountain Square. In the meantime, he's lining up new tenants, including the Indianapolis Museum of Contemporary Art.

Museum board Chairman Brandon Judkins said iMOCA will execute a lease for 2,000 square feet at the Murphy building, 1043 Virginia Ave., today or Monday. "It's a great move for us; it's a great move for the neighborhood," he said.

iMOCA will leave its current home at 340 N. Senate Ave. in time to open a new show at the Murphy building on Dec. 4 as part of the First Friday gallery walk, Judkins said.

The Murphy building is a 44,000-square-foot former five-and-dime store that houses two dozen or more artists' studios on the second floor. Von Deylen has anticipated the purchase from artists and businessmen Philip Campbell and Ed Funk since September. Von Deylen took over management at that time.

Von Deylen would not disclose the purchase price. He said that he's still trying to wrap up financing.

The Murphy building's transformation into an artists' haven sparked renewed interest in Fountain Square in the late 1990s. Campbell and Funk bought the building from the not-for-profit Southeast Neighborhood Development for $413,000 in June 2001. Campbell and Funk could not be reached for comment.

Other retail tenants may soon fill the Murphy. A British-style pub called the Red Lion hopes to open by mid-month in a space formerly occupied by Gusto, a pizza restaurant. Von Deylen's wife, Jennifer Rice Von Deylen, opened the shop IndySwank in November. Von Deylen is also talking with two nightclub owners.

iMoCA decided to move to the Murphy building because it's already a destination for art-seekers, Judkins said.

The museum almost ran aground earlier this year. Executive Director Kathy Nagler left for a high-level fund-raising job at the Indianapolis Museum of Art. Running out of money to pay salaries, the museum fired curator Christopher West and brought co-founder Jeremy Efroymson aboard to take Nagler's place. Efroymson is working for free.

The museum's current galleries on Senate Avenue are donated by the law firm Katz & Korin. Judkins said he thinks the museum can afford to take on the expense of a lease. He said the museum's finances have stabilized, and the rate Von Deylen is charging is "a reasonable-enough sum."

Moving to Fountain Square may also open doors to new sources of fund raising because iMOCA would play a role in reviving Fountain Square, he said.

iMoCA hopes to make its permanent home in another Von Deylen project, a $9-million, mixed-use development in nearby Fletcher Place. Von Deylen hopes to break ground on the project next year but has not lined up financing.

Von Deylen would build 56 mostly one-bedroom apartments with ground-floor retail or offices at Virgina Avenue and McCarty Street. He also has agreed to allow iMOCA to occupy a 6,000 square-foot space on the second floor for free and is now calling the project the "iMOCA Building." The museum signed a letter of intent to occupy the space.

Von Deylen hopes to capitalize on the extension of the Cultural Trail. He said he wanted to bring in iMoCA as an ammenity for other tenants of the building.

www.ibj.com

A still-snippy economy and a bevy of penny-pinchers are conspiring to squeeze out one of the noontime perks of downtown Indianapolis office dwellers–a civilized, sit-down lunch.

While fast food remains a favorite for value-minded patrons, several higher-end restaurants in the Mile Square and its nearby environs have decided in the last year to pull the tablecloth out from under their lunch service.

Recent defectors from the rolls of downtown lunch destinations include The Restaurant at The Canterbury Hotel, 123 S. Illinois St.; Agio, 635 Massachusetts Ave.; Taste of Tango, 36 E. Washington St.; and Scholar’s Inn, 725 Massachusetts Ave. The restaurants continue to offer dinner.

The Canterbury’s restaurant mothballed its lunch menu in September. Lunch sales had declined 10 percent to 15 percent from last year, according to manager Netza Salgado.

“The economy is slow,” Salgado said. “And I think people think that the restaurant is more expensive, being in the lobby of the hotel.”

The restaurant continues to offer lunch for private parties and business gatherings. Salgado said he would reassess whether to offer lunch to the public after the holidays.

Likewise, Taste of Tango has retreated to the security of private lunch affairs. The 8-month-old Argentine restaurant dropped open lunch service this summer after seeing wild swings in patronage.

“We had some days that we were packed and some days that we were empty,” said owner Fabricio Perez. Neither scenario was beneficial, either resulting in operating losses or spotty service and unsatisfied customers.

“We still get calls asking if we offer lunch, but, at this point, I don’t think so,” Perez said. “We are a family-owned restaurant, and we have to adapt to the market. We can’t provide something that the market doesn’t want.”

Empty seats in front of five-piece place settings are now a more common sight across the country. In June, July and August, lunch traffic at restaurants nationwide slipped 4 percent from the same period in 2008, according to The NPD Group Inc., a Chicago-based firm which tracks consumer and retail trends. Lunch accounts for 34 percent of all restaurant patronage.

Overall restaurant traffic dipped 3.6 percent in the quarter from the previous summer–the fourth consecutive quarter that overall traffic has declined from a year earlier, according to NPD data.

“This is the weakest we’ve seen the industry in over 30 years,” said NPD restaurant industry analyst Bonnie Riggs.

The steepest declines have been reserved for the market segment that NPD terms “fine dining”–those independent and chain establishments positioned a cut or two above Appleby’s and The Olive Garden. During the summer quarter, fine-dining locales nationwide welcomed 12 percent fewer diners than in summer 2008.

Although not an apparent trend across the country, it makes sense that upscale eateries feeling the pinch in Indianapolis would ditch their lunch service, Riggs said.

“Those types of places are so dependent on entertainment and corporate travel and expense accounts, and those are all going away,” she said. “Fine dining is a high ticket. I think those days of lavish spending, especially on expense accounts, may be over.”

Higher unemployment also hurts lunch traffic, Riggs said. And many patrons tend to "trade down” on the food chain during tough economic times, switching from fine dining to casual restaurants, and from casual restaurants to fast food, and so on.

“They aren’t only trading down in segment, but also in the menu items,” Riggs said. “One of casual dining’s strongest-growing menu items is the burger. People still go out but keep the check as low as they can.”

Offering lunch also is a big expense for restaurants. Eateries must pay cooks and wait staff, and often must offer separate menus with items apart from dinner offerings.

“If you are a dinner restaurant that decides to do lunch, you have to have a whole shift of cooks coming in at 7 a.m. instead of 2 p.m. The expense of the day doubles, but you’re not necessarily doubling your income,” said Steve Delaney, principal and restaurant specialist for Sitehawk Retail Real Estate.

Offering a separate lunch menu proved too complicated for Scholar’s Inn, which operates a sister restaurant in Bloomington that only serves dinner, according to owner Lyle Feigenbaum. The Indianapolis location gave lunch a go after remodeling in April 2008, but discontinued the service after the year-end holidays.

“Being open that many hours and doing all those menus, it didn’t really fit what we were all about,” Feigenbaum said.

A block down Massachusetts Avenue, Agio stopped offering lunch at the end of this summer. The Italian eatery struggled with the midday expense of staffing and operating the restaurant, which isn’t ideally suited for lunch crowds.

“It wasn’t paying what we needed it to,” said co-owner Jeffrey Wright. “We’re just a little too far east. The consensus I heard from people downtown was that we can’t get in our cars, get down there, find a place to park, eat lunch and get back to work. Nobody had the time. Even at lunch, we’re not a slam-’em-in, kick-’em-out kind of restaurant.”

One downtown upscale establishment is sticking with lunch for the time being, despite a stomach-turning drop in revenue.

At ritzy R bistro at 888 Massachusetts Ave., lunch sales this year have dropped about 25 percent from 2008, according to owner Regina Mehallick.

“It definitely is down, no doubt about it,” Mehallick said. “I want to stay open for lunch, because I think there is an audience for business lunches.”

She’ll reevaluate her plans after the holidays. “I kind of check on it every three or four months,” she said. “In my mental picture for the coming year, I would hope to be open for lunch.”

Riggs of the NPD Group wouldn’t be surprised to see more fine-dining restaurants pull the plug on lunch service.

“This is such a ‘me too’ industry that once they see someone latch onto something that is working, they copy it,” Riggs said.

www.ibj.com

The Indiana Finance Authority declined to sell a 19-acre development parcel between the White River and Fall Creek near downtown Indianapolis after it received only two bids at an auction Thursday.

The highest of the bids was $6.5 million, the price the state had set as a minimum bid for the property at 1401 Milburn St. between Indiana Avenue and 16th Street.

"We rejected it for not being enough and concluded the auction," spokeswoman Jennifer Alvey wrote in an e-mail.

The state years ago intended to build a psychiatric hospital on the site. Later plans, revealed in a bid packet, show what appears to be an apartment or condo development with three swimming pools.

Much of the surrounding area is part of a certified technology park. IUPUI's Biotechnology Research and Training Center on 16th Street just west of Indiana Avenue marks the edge of the park.

There was a very revealing article in the Star about the smoking ban. Whatever the health implications may be, it is very clear that it is being pushed by people who believe it is a "fashion statement" and that by keeping up with the times Indy demonstrates that it is a progressive city.

Again, whatever its merits, this attitude as much as anything is what keeps the city back. It's the flip side of the ornery independent streak, a certain servile imitation of what other cities deem as cool. Because the cool kids invariably move on to something new once the plebes pick up on a trend, Indy will never be anything but perpetually behind.

The city has to have to courage to be different and innovate in at least some ways. It's hard to convince business you are a hub of the innovation economy when there is very little innovation in your civic space. Once, Indy did innovate: with Unigov, the amateur sports strategy, etc. But along the way it lost that and besides the cultural trail, there's no much out there that's really any different than what everyone else is already doing.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091101/NEWS05/911010382/Why+Indy+s+different+in+smoking+debate

NB the title, "Why Indy is behind the pack." Clever, but also revealing.

Here's my question: why aren't we calling for legislation to ban smoking in cars and homes with residents under the age of 18? Those would seem to be the defenseless victims of secondhand smoke. Has any jurisdiction implemented such a ban? And why wouldn't that be a priority over keeping consenting adults from deciding to socialize or work among other consenting adults who choose to smoke? Is it because the rest of us adults who make the laws don't have to be bothered by the secondhand smoke that is being inhaled by defenseless minors in a car or home? Think about that one for a minute or two, will ya?

California bans smoking in cars when minors are in it.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009910310373


http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/26/safest-cities-ten-lifestyle-real-estate-metros-msa.html

http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/26/safest-cities-ten-lifestyle-real-estate-metros-msa_chart.html

I don't think you read the article in the Star which notes that Indianapolis ranked near the bottom of the cities surveyed. So, not very impressive. Forbes simply surveyed the 40 largest metro areas, NOT the 40 safest metro areas. (Now, one may have legitimate criticism of the criteria they used to determine "safety," but that is a separate issue). So, being near the bottom, like Indianapolis, is NOT an achievement, it's an embarrassment.

I don't think you read the article in the Star which notes that Indianapolis ranked near the bottom of the cities surveyed. So, not very impressive. Forbes simply surveyed the 40 largest metro areas, NOT the 40 safest metro areas. (Now, one may have legitimate criticism of the criteria they used to determine "safety," but that is a separate issue). So, being near the bottom, like Indianapolis, is NOT an achievement, it's an embarrassment.

Actually, I think he got the point, hence the dry sarcasm of the post title.

Actually, I think he got the point, hence the dry sarcasm of the post title.

When everyone is sarcastic, as the trend appears to be on this forum and just about every other message board, blog, etc., it makes it hard to pick up on sarcasm anymore.

In any event, I thought it was rather funny that Mayor Ballard's PR folks so badly blundered the Forbes "safest city" ranking. Does anyone still read articles, or do they just skim the headlines?

When everyone is sarcastic, as the trend appears to be on this forum and just about every other message board, blog, etc., it makes it hard to pick up on sarcasm anymore.

In any event, I thought it was rather funny that Mayor Ballard's PR folks so badly blundered the Forbes "safest city" ranking. Does anyone still read articles, or do they just skim the headlines?

I think it depends on whether you're reading to learn, or whether you're uncritically surfing for fluffy PR pieces.

And the Straw Man Argument of the Year goes to Thundermutt!! Congratulations.

Honey, no one is arguing for smoking to be completely banned. The law is simply a regulation of WHERE people can smoke. If people want to smoke in their own homes or cars, or in the homes or cars of people who are agreeable to their smoking, great. But, they should not be able to smoke in public places where THEIR smoking endangers others' health.

If you want to disagree with the smoking bank, fine. Just make honest arguments.

I'd say you win the straw man argument.

Bars ARE NOT public places. They are private places open to patrons at the discretion of the owner.

And there is the actual debate, honey. You, and people making your argument, say that private property-owners should be required to honor anti-smoking regulations in their places of business where access is limited by law, by custom, and by the rules of the house: everyone entering a bar is a consenting adult. I say they have a choice: go in a smoking establishment, or not.

Pharmacies, groceries, hospitals, schools, government properties, and any number of other places providing open public service and public accommodation...fine. Even restaurants.

After that, it's a private decision.

Most private workplaces ban smoking at their option. (When I ran a business, I banned smoking in-house. 20 years ago.)

The proposed Indianapolis ordinance is pretty narrow; it's not as if smokers have overrun every public place and the rest of us need a respite. Let's leave the smokers alone and worry about important things like streets, sidewalks, sewers, and public hospitals. And real public-health problems.

FYI: It looks like several local projects are competing for TIGER funds. There is something like a $1.5 billion in discretionary grants available under the stimulus. Will be massively over subscribed I'm sure, so the likelihood of any particular project getting money is low. Here are some of the big ones:

- Carmel: Keystone/96th Roundabout interchange - $78 million
- Hancock County: Mt. Comfort Rd from 96th St. to I-70 widen to four lanes - $82 million
- Greenwood: Worthville Rd. E-W corridor and interchange at I-75 - $75 million
- Indianapolis: Various bridges + significant Cultural Trail construction

I don't know what else around the state applied.

I think Carmel is the strongest of these applicants, followed by Indianapolis. The other two seem to be corridors that are just an idea at this point, while Indy and Carmel both are focusing on reconstruction of existing infrastructure and/or are have already constructed the majority of the corridors in question and are asking for completion money. I know Brainard went to Washington to personally lobby. I'm sure politics is going to play a big role here. It would be nice to pick up one of these grants.

So this isnt exactly skyline improving stuff, but if anyone makes it to the Fall Creek & College Ave area often, you probably saw some digging going on.

Thanks to the Urban Indy blog, I found out last week what that was.
http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DPW/Environment/CleanStream/Projects/Documents/Fall%20Creek%20Pilot%20Project%20Fact%20Sheet_06-25-09.pdf

I stopped yesterday and snapped a few photos of what it looks like. Not a real attention grabbing structure which is pretty good I guess. Hope that this thing works. I wonder if they will be erecting some singage soon to reflect what is going on here.

http://hustonstreetracing.com/fall_creek/DSC_0090.jpg

http://hustonstreetracing.com/fall_creek/DSC_0092.jpg

http://hustonstreetracing.com/fall_creek/DSC_0087.jpg

Also, FYI, INDOT let the first phase of I-65 widening in Boone County, from I-865 to CR 100E in Lebanon. That should get underway in the spring I'm guessing. They are widening to six lanes from the spur to US 52 north of Lebanon.

From IndyStar.

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Dato=20091102&Kategori=NLETTER08&Lopenr=311020005&Ref=AR&MaxW=580&MaxH=460&Q=100&Site=BG&MaxW=580&MaxH=600

Overcrowded with a growing staff, the NCAA headquarters in White River State Park will double in size via a $35 million expansion to be under construction by next spring.

The executive committee of the National Collegiate Athletic Association agreed this week to go ahead with the project, which was planned under the administration of the NCAA's late president, Myles Brand, who died Sept. 16.
Advertisement

Bob Williams, managing director of public and media relations for the NCAA, said Friday that the 130,000-square-foot expansion will include offices and meeting space.

The new structure will be a separate building on the west side of the current 116,000-square-foot headquarters, linked by a second-floor bridge.

When complete, the NCAA campus at 700 W. Washington St. will include three buildings: the existing national headquarters built in 1999, the proposed addition to open in mid-2012 and the existing 30,000-square-foot Hall of Champions and convention center.

The proposed expansion roughly doubles the office and meeting space for the national association staff.

Williams said the current building was constructed for about 350 employees and was expected to contain the operations over 20 years. However, in less than 10 years, there now are about 500 working for the NCAA.

That includes about 70 people in the Eligibility Center, which is in a warehouse-turned-office-building near 16th Street and the White River, about a mile from the main building.

No fundraising campaign is expected for the building project. Williams said it will be financed with about $2 million a year that is currently budgeted for rental space and other savings.

The glass-and-brick exterior design of the four-story building is intended to complement the existing building.

Much of the ground floor will have meeting and conference rooms and related facilities, so that the national organization's meetings can all be held here.

"In an effort to curtail costs, we are setting a goal of holding 95 percent of the association's meetings in Indianapolis. We have all sorts of committees and other groups, and they have met in locations all around the country," Williams said.

"Bringing all of that to Indianapolis is a cost containment. But in order to do that, we have to ensure that we have adequate meeting space here."

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091102/NLETTER08/311020005/-1/frontpagecities/NCAA+headquarters++expansion+will+contain+costs

I'd say you win the straw man argument.

Bars ARE NOT public places. They are private places open to patrons at the discretion of the owner.

And there is the actual debate, honey. You, and people making your argument, say that private property-owners should be required to honor anti-smoking regulations in their places of business where access is limited by law, by custom, and by the rules of the house: everyone entering a bar is a consenting adult. I say they have a choice: go in a smoking establishment, or not.

Pharmacies, groceries, hospitals, schools, government properties, and any number of other places providing open public service and public accommodation...fine. Even restaurants.

After that, it's a private decision.

Most private workplaces ban smoking at their option. (When I ran a business, I banned smoking in-house. 20 years ago.)

The proposed Indianapolis ordinance is pretty narrow; it's not as if smokers have overrun every public place and the rest of us need a respite. Let's leave the smokers alone and worry about important things like streets, sidewalks, sewers, and public hospitals. And real public-health problems.

No. I would say you are still the winner.

When a business opens itself up to the general public, then it becomes a public space and the property owner voluntary surrenders some of his private property rights to government regulation. This applies to bars just as much as it applies to restaurants.

You seem to be drawing some weird, and I believe illogical, distinction between a bar open to the public and a restaurant open to the public. If such a distinction really existed, then why wouldn't a bar be allowed to ban black people? After all, shouldn't "consenting adults" be allowed to choose who they wish to associate with for a drink? And yet, the only restriction to access (aside from dress codes, which restaurants can enforce, too) that bars may impose is based on age, and that restriction is imposed by law.

I understand that you are skeptical of and dislike government regulation. I assume you think the market place should decide every (or nearly every) issue. That's your right to have that (I think misguided) viewpoint. However, I and many other Americans don't believe the market-place handles all situations well, especially in situations where there is unequal bargaining power. Remember, workplace smoking regulations don't just protect patrons, more importantly they protect the workers who usually don't have the luxury of quitting and trying to find a job in a smoke-free workplace.

At the end of the day, the expanded smoking ban will pass in Indianapolis. You know as well as I do that it is only a matter of time. Ballard may only last one term, but even if he gets another one, he will be out-of-office soon enough. And the city's demographics are skewing Democratic and liberal (for Indiana). The smoking ban expansion was merely stalled, and it will eventually be passed into law. Even communities surrounding Indianapolis already have stricter smoking regulations. Most people would consider Plainfield, IN to be more conservative and less inclined to support government regulation than Indianapolis, and yet Plainfield bans smoking in bars. Soon, Indianapolis will, too.

I'd say you win the straw man argument.

Bars ARE NOT public places. They are private places open to patrons at the discretion of the owner.

And there is the actual debate, honey. You, and people making your argument, say that private property-owners should be required to honor anti-smoking regulations in their places of business where access is limited by law, by custom, and by the rules of the house: everyone entering a bar is a consenting adult. I say they have a choice: go in a smoking establishment, or not.

Pharmacies, groceries, hospitals, schools, government properties, and any number of other places providing open public service and public accommodation...fine. Even restaurants.

After that, it's a private decision.

Most private workplaces ban smoking at their option. (When I ran a business, I banned smoking in-house. 20 years ago.)

The proposed Indianapolis ordinance is pretty narrow; it's not as if smokers have overrun every public place and the rest of us need a respite. Let's leave the smokers alone and worry about important things like streets, sidewalks, sewers, and public hospitals. And real public-health problems.

Smoking is just as important as streets, sidewalks, sewers, and public hospitals.... Big business looks at how progressive the community they are choosing to locate in actually is. They look at smoking bans, public transportation, health and wellness, recreation, healthcare statistics...

And what is the difference between a restaurant and a bar? They are both places that, though are privately owned, are open to public patronage and sell food and drink. If your argument has to do with children get real, second hand smoke harms all, not just kids... Neither is ok.

Keep smoking! Smoke your brains out for all I care! But just do it in a respectful and responsible way that doesn't kill other people too.

And what is the difference between a restaurant and a bar? They are both places that, though are privately owned, are open to public patronage and sell food and drink. If your argument has to do with children get real, second hand smoke harms all, not just kids... Neither is ok.

But that is the exact argument. To your point, and Kangaroo's, the exact difference between a bar and a restaurant (and for that matter, between a bar and a government building) is major: one is a place where some may be forced to go, and one is a place where no one is forced to go.

Because restaurants admit children as well as consenting adults, there is some public-health duty on the part of the operator to protect the kids from smoke.

Again, that's sticking strictly to the public-health argument that underpins smoking bans in general.

And to Kangaroo, I favor free-market solutions but understand all too well that there are lots of situations involving pollution and public goods (and even neighborhoods) where the market doesn't work too well (or at all).

But the argument isn't about free markets: I recognize that free markets didn't get us non-smoking airplanes or restaurants. It's about the logic of the public health argument, which reasonably restricts situations forcing people to endure indoor polluted air. I support all those restrictions.

But no one is forced to go to a bar, so one presumes knowledge of the risks it entails by the consenting adults who go there. I generally avoid bars precisely because they are smoky places and I don't smoke.

And likewise, the worker/workplace argument: they knew what it was when they applied for the job. It's not as if all servers went to work in non-smoking bars and all of a sudden one day they were filled with smoke...that is SUCH a fallacious argument. And it's not as if those are the only serving jobs in the world.

So who's voting "yes" and who's voting "no" on the new Wishard tomorrow?

Why or why not? I'm tempted to vote no because the new hospital and site design is so crappy.

Here's another list for Greg Ballard: http://www.newgeography.com/content/001146-riding-out-recession-forty-strongest-metropolitan-economies

A few days ago BusinessWeek released a list of the top 40 metropolitan economies based on data compiled at the Brookings Institution's Metromonitor project. But, as many old media sites tend to do, they've locked the list behind a slow-loading slide show in a cheap attempt to drum up page views. Many of the commenters to the original article couldn't even find the list.

So, in the interest of usability, here's the top 40 in boring list format:


1 San Antonio, TX
2 Austin-Round Rock, TX
3 Oklahoma City, OK
4 Little Rock-North Little Rock-Conway, AR
5 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX
6 Baton Rouge, LA
7 Tulsa, OK
8 Omaha-Council Bluffs, NE-IA
9 Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX
10 El Paso, TX
11 Jackson, MS
12 McAllen-Edinburg-Mission, TX
13 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV
14 Columbia, SC
15 Pittsburgh, PA
16 Harrisburg-Carlisle, PA
17 Des Moines-West Des Moines, IA
18 Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC
19 Honolulu, HI
20 Rochester, NY
21 Buffalo-Niagara Falls, NY
22 Scranton-Wilkes-Barre, PA
23 Augusta-Richmond County, GA-SC
24 Colorado Springs, CO
25 Madison, WI
26 Albuquerque, NM
27 Syracuse, NY
28 Albany-Schenectady-Troy, NY
29 Kansas City, MO-KS
30 Raleigh-Cary, NC
31 Ogden-Clearfield, UT
32 Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH (tied)
32 New Haven-Milford, CT (tied)
33 Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT
34 Denver-Aurora-Broomfield, CO (tied)
34 Baltimore-Towson, MD (tied)
35 Poughkeepsie-Newburgh-Middletown, NY
36 Hartford-West Hartford-East Hartford, CT
37 Indianapolis-Carmel, IN
38 Memphis, TN-MS-AR

I am for it. Wishard truly serves the people of Indianapolis who really need it (http://www.ibj.com/article?articleId=2885). It is also the only major burn unit in Indianapolis. The facilities are crumbling (http://www.ibj.com/article?articleId=10733) and there is no way to upgrade or set back the need for a new facility and Wishard has a very reasonable funding plan with (approximately) $150m in funds Wishard already has and $704m in bond issues. The Chamber of Commerce has also already endorsed the project (http://www.ibj.com/article?articleId=7153). Granted the facility might not look exactly how everyone wants it to look, but it does serve a greater purpose and is urgently needed. To want to stop this because of the architecture is silly.

Wishard press release (http://www.wishard.edu/394.html)

http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/blog/propertylines/uploads/2009/07/wishard-poster-modified.jpg

http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/blog/propertylines/uploads/2009/07/new-wishard-map.JPG

To me, the Wishard vote is solely a question of need and financing. The need for a new hospital is desperate and the plan for financing it is reasonable. I see no reason to vote no.

I do have big questions about the design, but I don't think this is the time to make a statement.

What else is there to vote on anyway? I cant find the issues anywhere online.

EDIT: Found it
http://www.indy.gov/eGov/County/Clerk/Election/Pages/QuestionsonNov3Ballot.aspx

To me, the Wishard vote is solely a question of need and financing. The need for a new hospital is desperate and the plan for financing it is reasonable. I see no reason to vote no.

I do have big questions about the design, but I don't think this is the time to make a statement.

I agree, but you know me. I had to (a) change the subject because the old one was getting boring, and (b) act as agent provocateur to get people to react. :)

The time to hammer design will be at the Regional Center Hearing.

Has anyone else noticed this site before????

I have been watching the JW go up for over a year now on the JWindy.com website and there is a nice web cam view. The hotel seems to be putting up the top curtain wall where the sign will eventually be. The polls going up are taller than the usual floors. So it is about to be topped off. The virtual tour video link below shows how the building will look from the air. A very nice anchor to the west end of downtown.

http://www.jwindy.com/Live-Web-Cam-58.html

Also check out the two virtual tour videos if you haven't seen these before. Pretty nice...

http://www.jwindy.com/Virtual-Tour-45.html:banana:

I think it depends on whether you're reading to learn, or whether you're uncritically surfing for fluffy PR pieces.

Idyllic, either you misunderstood my post or you don't understand the meaning of the word sarcasm (which may well be the case).

I did not write that I am opposed to all sarcasm; I believe it certainly has its place, and I use it myself when appropriate.

As for your retort, I am afraid it doesn't make much sense. Sarcasm has nothing to do with critical thinking, nor does the absence of sarcasm mean that something is fluff. An article can be both highly insightful and highly critical without being sarcastic.

Perhaps, you thought I made some sort of slam against you, but that was not my intent. However, I am afraid that in your attempt to respond to me in a huff, you came across as a bit silly.

Driving in from the east side this morning on Michigan (shortly before 8), I was temporarily blinded by white-hot glare off the Regions Tower. It's ten times worse than anything at the Library or Gold Building, and I was quite surprised. Has anyone else noticed this?

How was your guys trip to polling this morning?

I walked in and one of the ladies was asleep on the table. hahaha she said turn out had been low this morning. Hopefully, it picks up.

I voted yes this morning.

How was your guys trip to polling this morning?


There were four other people voting at IPS school 60 (34th & Meridian) this morning when I went to vote. All of the four people in my polling place were openly endorsing and talking about the Wishard project. The poll workers also said that it has been slow.

I also voted yes this morning.

There was one other person at the polling place at 7:50 AM. My wife and I voted yes. It seemed the obvious call and it should pass easily, but then after the 2007 mayoral election I'll never predict what this city will do

Three precincts vote at my polling place, and I was the only one inside (other than the poll workers) at 7:45am. One person was leaving and one was pulling up as I left. Based on waiting in line 15 or 20 minutes at an earlier hour in 2008, this qualifies as extremely light turnout.

There are school-money issues across the southside (Beech Grove, Franklin and Perry Twps.) so that's probably where the heaviest turnout will be, and that's where the Wishard question will be decided.

To me, the Wishard vote is solely a question of need and financing. The need for a new hospital is desperate and the plan for financing it is reasonable. I see no reason to vote no.

I do have big questions about the design, but I don't think this is the time to make a statement.

What structure is being replaced?

I'm very conflicted over Wishard. (The bond issue, not the design - we can worry about design *if* it passes later.) I can't get a handle on why the wording on the ballot is so vague, why no dollar figure is named, and why no one can clearly say "Your property taxes will not go up as a result of this issue."

Polls are still open and I can walk to my polling place in four minutes, so I'd love to hear more opinions.

I might have jumped the gun a little bit, but I just created two new threads with short topic information posts. One for the NCAA expansion and one for the New Wishard Facilities. Since we don't know much about the actual architectural design I figured there should be a place for the ensuing discussions.

I'm very conflicted over Wishard. (The bond issue, not the design - we can worry about design *if* it passes later.) I can't get a handle on why the wording on the ballot is so vague, why no dollar figure is named, and why no one can clearly say "Your property taxes will not go up as a result of this issue."

Polls are still open and I can walk to my polling place in four minutes, so I'd love to hear more opinions.

There is no plan at all to increase taxes. This plan is actually well thought out and properly funded... weird huh?

Check out the new thread INDIANAPOLIS | New Wishard Hospital Facility | 11 fl | Pro (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=994583)

Nice wrapup, there, Eddie. I just spoke to two clients who are doctors and they both support it. So at the moment I'm in the yes column.

Hey, a "use" for keystone towers. haha

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091103/NEWS02/911030378/WMD+drills+today+at+empty+Indy+apartments

Bars ARE NOT public places.

Try taking your pants off in a bar, and you will quickly find out whether you are in a public place. Don't ask me how I know that.

I'm very conflicted over Wishard. (The bond issue, not the design - we can worry about design *if* it passes later.) I can't get a handle on why the wording on the ballot is so vague, why no dollar figure is named, and why no one can clearly say "Your property taxes will not go up as a result of this issue."

Polls are still open and I can walk to my polling place in four minutes, so I'd love to hear more opinions.
In simple terms, the referendum doesn't say "Your property taxes will not go up" because the whole purpose for the referendum is to allow Wishard to raise your property taxes if they have to.

But that doesn't mean you should vote no.

My understanding is that Wishard will be able to get better bond financing terms by having their ability to repay the bonds BACKED by Marion County taxpayers. The important distinction, though, is that they're not asking the Marion County taxpayers to PAY the bonds, just to BACK the bonds. Taxpayers only pay if Wishard can't pay, and Wishard is claiming to have a very conservative estimate for their ability to repay the bonds that should make that unnecessary.

If you don't believe them, feel free to vote no.

I voted yes.

I would encourage everyone to check out the NCAA expansion thread. There are some interesting things happening on the IUPUI campus in new RATIO renderings that EddieB317 posted. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=994591

Looks like we're getting a new Wishard!

http://www.ibj.com/wishard-construction-project-receiving-84-percent-of-votes/PARAMS/article/10908

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/County/Clerk/Election/Election_Info/Pages/SpecialElection09.aspx

Looks like we're getting a new Wishard!

Let's just hope that the accellerated schedule published in the Star allows for design and site plan revision to make the whole site more urban, and the buildings something other than glass-and-metal-panel suburban-office-park blobs.

I think this will be the very first real test of the Regional Center Hearing Examiner system, as it's the biggest project since that system came into being.

Who wants to advocate for good urban design on the Wishard site? :)

Indianapolis Keystone Towers' loan going to auction
By Jeff Swiatek
Posted: November 4, 2009

The abandoned Keystone Towers complex on the Northeastside could get a new owner through the unusual process of auctioning its mortgage next week.

Online bids will be taken on the property's non-performing $2 million loan Nov. 12-18.

The loan holder, New York-based ACAP Ventures, decided to sell the loan rather than go through a foreclosure on the property, owned by Southeastern Partners of Hickory, N.C.

“They felt it was better to sell the note,” which Southeastern hasn't been making payments on, said Mike Mounts, a managing director at Chicago-based Jones Lang LaSalle, which is handling the auction with REDC of Irvine, Calif.

Call Star reporter Jeff Swiatek at (317) 444-6483.


http://www.indystar.com/article/20091104/BUSINESS/91104022

I was driving home from classes on Delaware Street today and noticed that the long time abandoned building at the corner or E. Arch St. and Delaware is now fenced off and marked for historic restoration. This made me almost crash I was pretty excited. This is a huge eye sore currently and has amazing potential. :banana:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=indianapolis+indiana&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&gl=us&ei=3OPxSvaTPJPWlQejzJTaDg&ved=0CBAQ8gEwAA&hq=&hnear=Indianapolis,+Marion,+Indiana&ll=39.780706,-86.153197&spn=0.009498,0.02753&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=39.77846,-86.154029&panoid=F0Om9cqXrbvYCBNVY-EkFg&cbp=12,55.85,,0,-20.81


--------------------
Brandon Quigley
Print/Web Designer
www.theqstyle.com

I was driving home from classes on Delaware Street today and noticed that the long time abandoned building at the corner or E. Arch St. and Delaware is now fenced off and marked for historic restoration. This made me almost crash I was pretty excited. This is a huge eye sore currently and has amazing potential.
The Shelton:

http://www.sheltoncondos.com/

They started refurb on that building a while back but it stalled. If I remember correctly, there's still a chute attached to the northside of the buiding that they were using during tear-out.

Great news that they're starting the project up again.

^^ Wow -- I see what you mean calling it an eyesore. That picture in your link reminds me of the Tower of Terror at Disney World -- with all the weeds grown up around it. Hopefully it will soon be a nice apartment building -- or maybe even some kind of middle priced condos!

Also --- I'd definitely sign on to help promote a much improved, urbanized new Wishard on that site. As long as IUPUI is putting together its revised campus plan --- Wishard needs to link into the same types of strategy for development on their shared White River / Fall Creek Peninsula.

I was driving home from classes on Delaware Street today and noticed that the long time abandoned building at the corner or E. Arch St. and Delaware is now fenced off and marked for historic restoration. This made me almost crash I was pretty excited. This is a huge eye sore currently and has amazing potential.

I was at a meeting near there yesterday and noted the construction re-start also. Now if someone can just do the hulk at 10th & Penn (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=indianapolis+indiana&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&gl=us&ei=3OPxSvaTPJPWlQejzJTaDg&ved=0CBAQ8gEwAA&hq=&hnear=Indianapolis,+Marion,+Indiana&ll=39.780706,-86.153197&spn=0.009498,0.02753&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=39.77846,-86.154029&panoid=F0Om9cqXrbvYCBNVY-EkFg&cbp=12,55.85,,0,-20.81):

The Shelton:

http://www.sheltoncondos.com/

They started refurb on that building a while back but it stalled. If I remember correctly, there's still a chute attached to the northside of the buiding that they were using during tear-out.

Great news that they're starting the project up again.


Awesome, starting at 130k isn't too bad either!

Awesome, starting at 130k isn't too bad either!

I feel like that website hasn't been updated in quite some time. Most of the external links are dead and the website looks outdated itself.

--------------------
Brandon Quigley
Print/Web Designer
www.theqstyle.com

I feel like that website hasn't been updated in quite some time. Most of the external links are dead and the website looks outdated itself.
Yeah, that website dates from the previous refurb work so it's probably 2 years old or so. When I searched for The Shelton, I was surprised that website still came up.

The Percussive Arts Society plans to open an interactive museum at Washington and Illinois streets downtown.

The museum, called “Rhythm! Discovery Center,” will have its grand opening on Saturday, Nov. 21. The museum also will have a "soft" opening on Nov. 12, in time for the society’s annual convention, which is expected to draw 5,500 to 6,000 people to Indianapolis.

Another music-driven organization, Bands of America, is hosting its Grand National Championship in Indianapolis the same week.

The Percussive Arts Society has been planning the new museum since moving its headquarters from Oklahoma to Indianapolis in 2007. The 15,000-square-foot museum is on the lower level of the Claypool Court building, 110 W. Washington St., Suite A.

The center will house three rotating exhibits, an open-play area and two soundproof practice rooms with new acoustic-control technology. The bulk of the society’s 800-piece collection will be in storage, but the items will be visible through a large window.

The society will spend less than $1 million to launch the museum, marketing director Jon Feustal said.

"We hope that it allows us to build the organization, build the discovery center, add programming and further our mission," he said.

Admission is $8 for adults, $7 for senior citizens and $5 for students and children 6 and older.

www.ibj.com

Being a drummer myself, this is awesome news, plus an excellent addition for downtown once again!!

Smoking is just as important as streets, sidewalks, sewers, and public hospitals.... Big business looks at how progressive the community they are choosing to locate in actually is. They look at smoking bans, public transportation, health and wellness, recreation, healthcare statistics...


Really? Big business is not going to relocate here because smoking is only banned everywhere except in bars? I'm having a hard time believing that.

IBJ 11-4-09

Harley-Davidson eliminates Indiana from relocation list

Harley-Davidson has announced that a Kentucky location is the only one it will consider if it decides to relocate its York, Pa., motorcycle plant, eliminating a site south of Indianapolis from contention.

Harley said the only site outside York being considered is in Shelbyville, Ky. The company earlier said it was also looking at locations in Shelby County, as well as locations in Kansas City, Mo., and in Murfreesboro, Tenn.

The York Dispatch reported that a company statement said that Harley-Davidson representatives met with Kentucky officials this week. Harley-Davidson spokesman Bob Klein said the company is also still considering the possibility of staying in York.

The plant employs 2,500 and is the company's largest.

The Courier-Journal in Louisville reported that Kentucky Economic Development Secretary Larry Hayes declined to discuss what kinds of state incentives are under consideration.

Harley will decide by the end of the year whether to continue the motorcycle-making tradition in York. That decision will hinge on whether the machinists union can help wring out $100 million in operating costs, and ratify a new contract by Dec. 2.

Harley-Davidson is nearly as prominent in York as in its headquarters of Milwaukee. The plant employs 2,100 people in production and another 300 in administration. It also anchors the local tourism effort. With Hershey’s Chocolate World outside Harrisburg and the iconic motorcycle maker south of the Susquehanna River in York, the region bills itself as the “Factory Tour Capital of the World.”

Indiana stood to land a much smaller Harley presence. The recession dampened sales of the company’s luxurious bikes, the least expensive of which costs about $15,000. Harley is talking relocation while shrinking its work force.

Even so, moving could have meant 1,000 jobs for the Indianapolis area.

Harley representatives visited a site off Interstate 74 on the northern edge of Shelby County three times in August.:ohno:

Idyllic, either you misunderstood my post or you don't understand the meaning of the word sarcasm (which may well be the case).

I did not write that I am opposed to all sarcasm; I believe it certainly has its place, and I use it myself when appropriate.

As for your retort, I am afraid it doesn't make much sense. Sarcasm has nothing to do with critical thinking, nor does the absence of sarcasm mean that something is fluff. An article can be both highly insightful and highly critical without being sarcastic.

Perhaps, you thought I made some sort of slam against you, but that was not my intent. However, I am afraid that in your attempt to respond to me in a huff, you came across as a bit silly.

I'm pretty sure you've misunderstood both of my posts on this topic. I was referring to the person in the mayor's office who thought the story was worthy of issuing a glowing press release about. Unless that person was you, no slam was directed at you.

Here's another list for Greg Ballard: http://www.newgeography.com/content/001146-riding-out-recession-forty-strongest-metropolitan-economies

A few days ago BusinessWeek released a list of the top 40 metropolitan economies based on data compiled at the Brookings Institution's Metromonitor project. But, as many old media sites tend to do, they've locked the list behind a slow-loading slide show in a cheap attempt to drum up page views. Many of the commenters to the original article couldn't even find the list.

So, in the interest of usability, here's the top 40 in boring list format:


1 San Antonio, TX
2 Austin-Round Rock, TX
3 Oklahoma City, OK
4 Little Rock-North Little Rock-Conway, AR
5 Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington, TX
6 Baton Rouge, LA
7 Tulsa, OK
8 Omaha-Council Bluffs, NE-IA
9 Houston-Sugar Land-Baytown, TX
10 El Paso, TX
11 Jackson, MS
12 McAllen-Edinburg-Mission, TX
13 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV
14 Columbia, SC
15 Pittsburgh, PA
16 Harrisburg-Carlisle, PA
17 Des Moines-West Des Moines, IA
18 Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC
19 Honolulu, HI
20 Rochester, NY
21 Buffalo-Niagara Falls, NY
22 Scranton-Wilkes-Barre, PA
23 Augusta-Richmond County, GA-SC
24 Colorado Springs, CO
25 Madison, WI
26 Albuquerque, NM
27 Syracuse, NY
28 Albany-Schenectady-Troy, NY
29 Kansas City, MO-KS
30 Raleigh-Cary, NC
31 Ogden-Clearfield, UT
32 Boston-Cambridge-Quincy, MA-NH (tied)
32 New Haven-Milford, CT (tied)
33 Bridgeport-Stamford-Norwalk, CT
34 Denver-Aurora-Broomfield, CO (tied)
34 Baltimore-Towson, MD (tied)
35 Poughkeepsie-Newburgh-Middletown, NY
36 Hartford-West Hartford-East Hartford, CT
37 Indianapolis-Carmel, IN
38 Memphis, TN-MS-AR

What happened to 39 & 40?

What happened to 39 & 40?

Ties for 32nd and 34th.