I love the thing... It's just so fucking weird.. remember though, I'm the guy who loves OCAD...

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/images/news/scenes/john_wooden_sculpture.jpg

But yes, it's wildly out of place, the public doesn't have any real way to interact with the thing, and I wish that they would fucking stop putting memorials of any type on Georgia. It just isn't necessary and I think clutters the place. This type of thing would be great on the Cultural Trail, not Georgia street.

I walked down Georgia Street today. Was down there at the Pub watching the IU - Wisconsin game. Lots of people were out. Most places were doing well. I couldn't get in to Kilroy's -- line outside. I did see a few cracked pavers. Usually the large ones - which I suppose are easier to crack. For the most part I didn't see many (actually any) others -- but I really wasn't looking.

There is a new tribute statue thing to John Wooden. Its on the west side of the intersection of S. Meridian and Georgia Streets. Quite honestly, I thought it was pretty creepy looking. John is squatting down to get ready to draw up a play (I guess). He is surrounded by five pairs of legs -- the basketball players standing around him -- but only the parts of the legs from about mid-femur down. It looks pretty strange - and like I said, pretty creepy with just all of these body-less legs standing around.

Hopefully I'll get used to it one of these days -- because he truly is a Hoosier worth honoring. It just seems too bad that he seems to almost get overlooked because you end up staring at all of these strange legs. I guess that's the way art is. Some people may like the piece and some don't. I'd say I fall more into the second category right now.

I'll be the one to say it:

A man bent down on his knees surrounded by naked legs brings to mind a different kind of scenario.

Everyone I've shown it to is like "uh, it looks like he's about to uh, you know..."

I mean come on. Your mind is shown naked legs with a vague contextual reference and it's going to fill in naked bodies, not uniforms.

^^ It's for sure weird. Its like Indy's vulgar equivalent of carmel's Creepy design district people.

I just don't find the piece particularly weird. To me, it just looks like a coach squatting down between his players going through a game plan. It seems like a decent sculpture. It is not my favorite piece of art, but I certainly don't find it creepy, nor does it get me hot-and-bothered with sexual fantasies. :)

If this sculpture makes some people think about serial killers or blow jobs, then I would say the work has certainly helped achieve the goal of making downtown a more interesting place. I will take this artwork over another boring corporate fountain any day.

I take back part of what I said. I was nearby the sculpture much of today, and it gets a ton of attention. People were certainly interacting with it. Children were climbing on it, and people were constantly taking pictures of it and posing in front of it etc.

I just don't find the piece particularly weird. To me, it just looks like a coach squatting down between his players going through a game plan. It seems like a decent sculpture. It is not my favorite piece of art, but I certainly don't find it creepy, nor does it get me hot-and-bothered with sexual fantasies. :)

If this sculpture makes some people think about serial killers or blow jobs, then I would say the work has certainly helped achieve the goal of making downtown a more interesting place. I will take this artwork over another boring corporate fountain any day.

lol when doesn't something get turned into something sexual and crude?
It happens all the time its not something to think long and hard about. :bash:

I take back part of what I said. I was nearby the sculpture much of today, and it gets a ton of attention. People were certainly interacting with it. Children were climbing on it, and people were constantly taking pictures of it and posing in front of it etc.

What's struck me is that for the most part the people crowding around the statue aren't aware what it represents. They're interested because the thing is just so freakin interesting...

I heard several people say: "what does it mean?" as if it's a fine art piece, not a memorial statue.

So, perhaps as a memorial, the piece fails. As a curiosity and a memorable focal point, it's a slam dunk.

edit - I don't know why I feel compelled to keep writing about this thing...

I walked by it again this morning. People are actively discussing it and taking pictures of it. Not everyone's positive, but people are certainly engaged.. which is awesome..

My reaction after seeing it a few days in a row: I think I'd like it a lot more if it was on ground level. It's on a large cylindrical concrete platform a few feet above street level. If people could walk amongst the legs and Mr. Wooden it would be awfully neat. As it is, the platform is waaaayy to large for it's location and definitely looks out of place. Because of it, I've seen people walk out into the street to take pictures. Not safe.

I agree with the statue on several points. I think it is out of place for Georgia along with the monument markers.....how many sculptures of Lincoln do we need in a mile square area? It is certainly wierd, I didn't think sexual, but in general it is odd. I will note as Moochie did, I saw people interacting with it. They were reading the quotes, interacting with the scultpures and taking pictures.....It should be noted that it was the B1G basketball tourney though. I don't know if the general public will react the same?

It should be noted that it was the B1G basketball tourney though. I don't know if the general public will react the same?

It draws crowds even on workdays.

I was told even before construction that Georgia St. had been modeled after Las Ramblas.

Having spent several weeks on Las Ramblas, I can say that there is very little resemblance. But, it's important to note that Las Ramblas has existed for at least 400 years, and we've only had Georgia st. for a few months..

One thing that isn't apparent in pictures and videos of Las Ramblas is that while it is twice as long as Georgia, the actual footprint of Las Ramblas is actually very much larger. On nearly every block there is an entrance to a courtyard with multi-use buildings lining a pedestrian mall. Below is the courtyard I stayed at all those years ago. It houses the Kabul Hostel, a Florist, a couple of restaurants and a sleazy nightclub on street level with residential and small hotels on top.

http://www.barcelona-tourist-guide.com/images/int/albums/placa-reial/images/placa-reial-01_jpg.jpg

The effect of these courtyards are pretty dramatic in that Las Ramblas isn't just a linear street. I'm guessing if you actually added up the storefront "shoreline" of Las Ramblas, it'd be more like 3 times the size of Georgia street.

I hope that those in the know have noticed this and will keep it in mind when planning what to do with Pan Am Plaza. I see an opportunity here to expand Georgia's footprint with a modern take on the beautiful courtyards on Las Ramblas. Why not a public courtyard lined by mixed use residential/hotel/office with plenty of retail?

[QUOTE=moochie;89385475]Having spent several weeks on Las Ramblas, I can say that there is very little resemblance. But, it's important to note that Las Ramblas has existed for at least 400 years, and we've only had Georgia st. for a few months..


Here is a link to the picture I was refering to on Las Ramblas a couple days ago. I'm not sure how to post the picture itself on this thread but the link works. I just checked it. But this picture shows a more street view and there is some similarities there, especially with the trees and when our trees grow up.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://galenf.com/eh61/rambla25.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.galenfrysinger.com/barcelona_rambla.htm&h=648&w=864&sz=253&tbnid=VrCneLue4rqp7M:&tbnh=101&tbnw=135&zoom=1&docid=mTlVO_BGmW6kKM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Mz1eT86kCOXL2QXj77gI&ved=0CIkBEPUBMAU&dur=421

Posting images is fairly simple:

1. Right click on the image you want to post and "copy image URL" or something like that (depends on your browser).
2. In the post editor window here, click the "Insert Image" icon (looks like mountains with a moon).
3. Copy the URL into the pop-up.

Voila! Image posted:

http://galenf.com/eh61/rambla25.jpg

My point is that while they aren't doing a bad job making it look like Las Ramblas, the two streets function very, very differently.

Las Ramblas is primarily a 6 block long open air market with tons of all types of residential and retail/restaurant/nightlife etc. with perhaps a 30% expansion of the total footprint of the street into neighboring courtyards

Georgia st. has a long way to go.. but like I said, it's only existed as is a few months. I hope we don't miss an important opportunity to expand the footprint of Georgia st. into Pan Am Plaza. A courtyard like the one I posted above may be a good option.

[QUOTE=moochie;89385475]Having spent several weeks on Las Ramblas, I can say that there is very little resemblance. But, it's important to note that Las Ramblas has existed for at least 400 years, and we've only had Georgia st. for a few months..


Here is a link to the picture I was refering to on Las Ramblas a couple days ago. I'm not sure how to post the picture itself on this thread but the link works. I just checked it. But this picture shows a more street view and there is some similarities there, especially with the trees and when our trees grow up.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://galenf.com/eh61/rambla25.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.galenfrysinger.com/barcelona_rambla.htm&h=648&w=864&sz=253&tbnid=VrCneLue4rqp7M:&tbnh=101&tbnw=135&zoom=1&docid=mTlVO_BGmW6kKM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Mz1eT86kCOXL2QXj77gI&ved=0CIkBEPUBMAU&dur=421

Beautiful shots of Las Ramblas ^^ Hopefully we'll start seeing more street furniture - and also plants in large pots or planters helping to shape some of the spaces. Greenery really adds to the life of the area. I think a test of how well this place might do will be once the weather officially sets into Summer mode (which it seems like it is doing this week). Then there won't be a need for tents with sides on them - but rather just chairs and tables with large umbrellas. I hope the person who was hired to promote this space is busily working on some plans that will occur during the next few months. With everything going on in May -- there definitely should be some events planned for some of the key weekends during that month.

Having spent several weeks on Las Ramblas, I can say that there is very I hope that those in the know have noticed this and will keep it in mind when planning what to do with Pan Am Plaza. I see an opportunity here to expand Georgia's footprint with a modern take on the beautiful courtyards on Las Ramblas. Why not a public courtyard lined by mixed use residential/hotel/office with plenty of retail?

Excellent Idea. You are exactly right. That site could really be a nice extension of Georgia St and add great mixed use density to the area.

Any movment here? It has been quiet on this side of downtown.

Yes -- Along with first floor restaurants and retail along Georgia Street, there should also be walk-through areas off of Georgia connecting through to an open courtyard area like what currently exists there (except the courtyard might be a little smaller than what currently exists as Pan Am Plaza). Similar openings should also be preserved on the Capitol Avenue side as well. Restaurants and shops should open onto this inner side as well. A fountain would be fine there. The view to the Union Station clock tower should be preserved from the court yard.

Those ice rink buildings -- while nice for people who want to ice skate - really are incredibly ugly fronting Georgia and Capitol. It could be so much better. I hope it doesn't take too many additional years before the re-do of this block starts happening.

Any movment here? It has been quiet on this side of downtown.

Is this a test of our development news scoop chops?? Posted Friday on Milhaus's blog with a bunch of drawings:

http://milhausdevelopment.com/blogs/blog

Posted on March 09, 2012 by Milhaus Development Share on facebookShare on twitterMore Sharing Services


Milhaus Development has filed plans with the City of Indianapolis for the redevelopment of the former Bank One Operations Center into 256 apartments in a five-story mixed-use building. The project is the first of a multi-phase development covering 6-acres of prime land in the city's core. The units will be available in studio, one, two and three bedroom configurations. It also includes a third-level pool and recreation deck offering views of the downtown area to all residents. The size of the building also allows for two large central courtyards to be designed for both passive and active spaces. Other elements at the yet to be named building will include fitness studio, yoga room, theater, outdoor kitchen, vegetable gardens, putting green, concrete and wood floors, stainless steel appliances, and 9'-14' ceilings. The building will also benefit from environmental considerations, including solar heated water, green roofs in the courtyard and onsite recycling program. Other "green" features are currently being evaluated in order to obtain LEED certification. Construction is set to begin this summer with leasing beginning in the first half of 2013.

Fountains are great and all, but personally I prefer sculptures and/or stages for small concerts.

Definitely would like to preserve the undergrround parking... my fear is that someone will build a hotel and use the plaza for valet drop off and parking... like that disaster in front of Union Station...

Yes -- Along with first floor restaurants and retail along Georgia Street, there should also be walk-through areas off of Georgia connecting through to an open courtyard area like what currently exists there (except probably a little smaller). Similar openings should also be preserved on the Capitol Avenue side as well. Restaurants and shops should open onto this inner side as well. A fountain would be fine there. The view to the Union Station clock tower should be preserved from the court yard.

Those ice rink buildings -- while nice for people who want to ice skate - really are incredibly ugly fronting Georgia and Capitol. It could be so much better. I hope it doesn't take too many additional years before the re-do of this block starts happening.

RE MILHAUS: YEEAAAAHHHHHHH!!!! FINALLY I haven't even checked the renderings yet --- but I'm just glad something is finally getting started over near the MSA site.

RE MILHAUS: YEEAAAAHHHHHHH!!!! FINALLY I haven't even checked the renderings yet --- but I'm just glad something is finally getting started over near the MSA site.

Same or similar renders. the architectural drawings are newly released as far as I can tell.

edit - maybe not.. anyhoo, here they all are. I like the blocky modern cuts in the facade, but I'm sure that most will disagree with me.. as usual..

http://assets.21fingers.net/s/5oIGtlY4/photos/8717/large_Milhaus%20451%20Market%20Rendering.jpg?1331309577

http://assets.21fingers.net/s/5oIGtlY4/photos/8720/large_Milhaus%20451%20Market%20West%20Elevation.jpg?1331309684

http://assets.21fingers.net/s/5oIGtlY4/photos/8719/large_Milhaus%20451%20Market%20East%20Elevation.jpg?1331309642

http://assets.21fingers.net/s/5oIGtlY4/photos/8718/large_Milhaus%20451%20Market%20Master%20Plan-sm.jpg?1331309605

http://assets.21fingers.net/s/5oIGtlY4/photos/8721/large_Milhaus%20451%20Market%20First%20Floor.jpg?1331309732

http://assets.21fingers.net/s/5oIGtlY4/photos/8722/large_Milhaus%20451%20Second%20Floor.jpg?1331309756

http://assets.21fingers.net/s/5oIGtlY4/photos/8723/large_Milhaus%20451%20Third%20Floor.jpg?1331309774

http://assets.21fingers.net/s/5oIGtlY4/photos/8724/large_Milhaus%20451%20Market%20Fourth%20Floor.jpg?1331309799

http://assets.21fingers.net/s/5oIGtlY4/photos/8726/large_Milhaus%20451%20Market%20Fifth%20Floor%20Plan.jpg?1331309856

http://assets.21fingers.net/s/5oIGtlY4/photos/8728/large_Milhaus%20451%20Market%20First%20Floor%20Office.jpg?1331310023

I will wait to see what they've actually submitted to the MDC because they appear to be showing two different plans.

THIS ONE SUCKS: the ground floor almost entirely taken up with parking and a small space along Market saved for the leasing office.

THIS ONE IS GOOD: most of the ground floor with retail.

I wonder if they developed both plans as a contingency if the complicated deal with the city over the adjacent parking garage fell through. Who knows what happened given that they're showing both plans, but the fact that the plan with first floor retail is labeled as "Alternate First Floor Plan" is not promising.

I think that this is what's going on: the east side existing structure which is already 1st floor parking will remain so. The two new structures on the West side of the site will be 1st floor retail.

The alternate plan calls for the existing parking on the East side existing building's first floor to be office space.

Here's my microsoft paint magic:

http://indianapolisparking.net/msa.jpg

Here's the alternate plan for the existing building on the East side of the site, currently 1st level parking, may be turned into office space.

http://assets.21fingers.net/s/5oIGtlY4/photos/8728/large_Milhaus%20451%20Market%20First%20Floor%20Office.jpg?1331310023

I will wait to see what they've actually submitted to the MDC because they appear to be showing two different plans.

THIS ONE SUCKS: the ground floor almost entirely taken up with parking and a small space along Market saved for the leasing office.

THIS ONE IS GOOD: most of the ground floor with retail.

I wonder if they developed both plans as a contingency if the complicated deal with the city over the adjacent parking garage fell through. Who knows what happened given that they're showing both plans, but the fact that the plan with first floor retail is labeled as "Alternate First Floor Plan" is not promising.

OK, isn't this new design:

http://assets.21fingers.net/s/5oIGtlY4/photos/8717/large_Milhaus%20451%20Market%20Rendering.jpg?1331309577

better than the old design?:

http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/blog/propertylines/Ops-Center-rendering.jpg

It just fits better on Washington street.. I like to see new architecture on the East side of downtown echo the more moderne aspects of the CCB and the Gold Building etc. If we can get some truly world class designs in there, maybe the CCB won't look so ugly and out of place!

FINALLY, someone's going to try and get things happening down there at the Market Square site! That is so exciting! At this point, I don't really care much what it looks like. Just build something, anything. Doesn't have to be mind-blowing architecture, just a decent building; which this proposal is. Has its pros, has its cons...but overall a very decent building.

Just please...price it right. Price it right and those apartments will rent out like hotcakes and pretty soon, another developer or two will say "Hey, that Milhaus thing worked out pretty darn well! We can do that too! ...but taller!" :)

EDIT: Okay, I know the "I'm sick of a parking lot, just build anything" mindset is dangerous and can lead to some really crappy stuff. But this is actually a pretty damn good design.

OK, isn't this new design:

http://assets.21fingers.net/s/5oIGtlY4/photos/8717/large_Milhaus%20451%20Market%20Rendering.jpg?1331309577

better than the old design?:

http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/blog/propertylines/Ops-Center-rendering.jpg

It just fits better on Washington street.. I like to see new architecture on the East side of downtown echo the more moderne aspects of the CCB and the Gold Building etc. If we can get some truly world class designs in there, maybe the CCB won't look so ugly and out of place!

Not really much difference except paint color. Yes, the newer render shows some of the "flat-panel TV aesthetic of Eskenazi Health/New Wishard and CityWay, but it's not a dramatic difference.

Look, there really aren't that many cost-effective ways to arrange new apartment construction. Plumbing and elevator stacks, outdoor space (balcony) requirements, parking, and pro-forma lease rates really dictate bulk and the gross form. The rest is ornament.

If you want "unique", head over to St. Clair & Capitol. Or look at old-building conversions.

I actually like both renders. The 5 story building is a nice height. Maybe in a year or so a higher one will be put in the area. With this, I do like it, and it is almost like art deco.

OK, isn't this new design:

http://assets.21fingers.net/s/5oIGtlY4/photos/8717/large_Milhaus%20451%20Market%20Rendering.jpg?1331309577

better than the old design?:

http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/blog/propertylines/Ops-Center-rendering.jpg

It just fits better on Washington street.. I like to see new architecture on the East side of downtown echo the more moderne aspects of the CCB and the Gold Building etc. If we can get some truly world class designs in there, maybe the CCB won't look so ugly and out of place!

I agree with CDCguy that it's really not very different. But I will say that I like the newer rendering a bit better. There's something about the sections that both protrude and extend slightly above the roof line in the old one that just doesn't sit well with me. I think maybe it's like too much of an attempt to try to break the facade into smaller pieces, but yet it's obvious that it's not working. When you can clearly see right away that it's one building trying to masquerade as several, I think it can be worse that just having a expansive monolithic facade.

I'll be the one to say it:

A man bent down on his knees surrounded by naked legs brings to mind a different kind of scenario.

Everyone I've shown it to is like "uh, it looks like he's about to uh, you know..."

I mean come on. Your mind is shown naked legs with a vague contextual reference and it's going to fill in naked bodies, not uniforms.

Yep. They could've at least shown the bottom of shorts on those upper thighs. Location-wise, wouldn't the plaza in front of the Fieldhouse have been a better location? I wonder if the Pacers might have declined such a request.

Yep. They could've at least shown the bottom of shorts on those upper thighs. Location-wise, wouldn't the plaza in front of the Fieldhouse have been a better location? I wonder if the Pacers might have declined such a request.

I think miller will go there! Haha

Completely off-topic, but does anyone have any information or renderings of 3520 Commerce Crossing? I was looking on Google Streetview when I saw a sign saying "Now Leasing" and it was an unfamiliar looking tower. I researched but I found out was that it was going to be the HQ for Simon (until they decided to stay downtown) and that is was going to be 258' tall.

I really like the Milhaus proposal. I also like the design of the yellow extensions from the building, it is different, which is good imo. I will hold off on being too giddy until work starts to happen because proposals and plans don't always equal an end product or a product at all.......

The Commerce Crossing was a Simon proposal to move to the northside if the city would not allow them to build on their current site downtown. The project is dead for all intents and purposes however, is still listed on sites such as Emporis and the Skyscraper Page.

I really like the Milhaus proposal. I also like the design of the yellow extensions from the building, it is different, which is good imo. I will hold off on being too giddy until work starts to happen because proposals and plans don't always equal an end product or a product at all.......

I talked to Cory Schouten, and he's trying to figure out when construction starts this summer. Hopefully we'll get a more official announcement and coverage on IBJ soon.

Plans call for apartment conversion of 10-story American Building.

I've been wondering when we might begin to see some of the older, Class B office buildings get turned into residential. Looks like it is starting with this one. Maybe the shuttered building along Pennsylvania between Ohio and Market (I think it might be called the Consolidated Building) will be the next one to go. I know it has asbestos problems - but maybe someone will be able to buy it cheaply enough that they will be able to pay for asbestos removal and then convert that one too before it sits too much longer.

Here are a few of the details of the story for the conversion of the building that sits at the SE corner of Pennsylvania and Vermont:

Two local real estate firms are working on plans to convert a 10-story downtown office building along North Pennsylvania Street into market-rate apartments.

Rents for apartments will range from $900 to $1,500 per month. (IBJ File Photo)The Whitsett Group and Ambrose Property Group bought the American Building, a limestone structure built in 1929, from the parent company of The Indianapolis Star in a deal that closed in February.

They expect to spend $7 million to $10 million to retrofit the building at 333 N. Pennsylvania St. to accommodate 72 apartments. The ground floor will remain as commercial space. Construction is scheduled to begin in late summer or early fall.

Rents will range from $900 to $1,500 per month, depending on the size and view from the units, said Whitsett Group principal Joe Whitsett. Parts of the building, which sits a few blocks from Mass Ave, offer excellent views of the Indiana War Memorial Plaza, University Park and the American Legion Mall.

More details here:

http://www.ibj.com/plans-call-for-apartment-conversion-of-10-story-american-building/PARAMS/article/33184

this conversion would be big time for the area. Interesting that Gannett is involved. I hope they move away from their hideous beast of a building and sell it to someone who cares/actually has employees.

Yes -- with this project -- maybe the old Essex Hotel site (immediately to the north) will finally get a developer to turn that surface lot into a nice 10 - 12 story residential project. Along with helping to stabilize residential along Pennsylvania Street, the conversion of this building along Vermont Street is steadily helping Vermont become a great residential / mixed use / walkable street all the way from IUPUI at West Street through the area just north of the CBD and on over to East Street and into Lockerbie Square.

this conversion would be big time for the area. Interesting that Gannett is involved. I hope they move away from their hideous beast of a building and sell it to someone who cares/actually has employees.

Maybe they could sell the remaining building on Penn and downsize into the old Fox59 building on Meridian. Or move out to their printing plant in Pike Twp.

http://p.twimg.com/An1EW23CMAIjs6d.jpg:small

I could not resist reposting this pic, taken last night at everyone's favorite spot. Photo credit: arenn. His caption: "The trail ends here"

PS. The Caddy was still there this morning.

http://p.twimg.com/An1EW23CMAIjs6d.jpg:small

I could not resist reposting this pic, taken last night at everyone's favorite spot. Photo credit: arenn. His caption: "The trail ends here"

PS. The Caddy was still there this morning.

It really is worse than the image can describe. I realize it seems like a small section of trail for however long it is, but it is a complete change from the rest. You ride along and all of a sudden there is nothing. It is embarassing for the CT and the city.

The Conrad/CT thing makes me seethe with anger every time I see it. It upsets me on so many fronts:

1. Biking/walking infrastructure given over to vehicles.
2. The fact that the Conrad "compromised" with the Cultural Trail team but in effect actually got a BIGGER area to park cars in.
3. Corporate interests shitting on the public good.
4. THE MAN/MONEY/HIGH SOCIETY shitting on the little guy.

High society? Real high society has manners, class, and respects art, architecture, and healthy cities. Parking cars out front isn't classy, its trashy.

I wish I were rich... I would buy a rust buck, valet it, tip $$$ and tell them to keep it up front for me.

High society? Real high society has manners, class, and respects art, architecture, and healthy cities. Parking cars out front isn't classy, its trashy.

I wish I were rich... I would buy a rust buck, valet it, tip $$$ and tell them to keep it up front for me.

That would be awesome. I'm still hoping for someone to organize a protest against this absolutely ridiculous waste of public money.

What waste of public money? Money spent helping the Conrad get built?

Most people are very happy to have the 8 miles of cultural trail connecting all parts of downtown and connecting it to the various greenways and bike lanes extending out to the rest of the region. A large portion of the funds for the Cultural Trail came from the private sector. Its the 90 feet in front of the Conrad Hotel that people are complaining about because they stopped the Cultural Trail from connecting through in that section.

The protest seems simple enough, get a lot of people on bikes to hang out in the parking lot....I mean CT in front of the Conrad! Maybe if we wear tattered leather and chains it will scare the clients.

I may be studying the Cultural Trail for a class project in urban planning, in particular I'm wondering what role the actors played (such as the Conrad, even though we already know the answer to that) and what made them choose the route they did for the the Cultural Trail, was it the private interests that directed it a certain way or not. I for one had always wondered why the southern side of Washington Street wasn't chosen, I would think that the Circle Centre Mall would have been okay with the Cultural Trail passing right by it. I know there's an underground parking garage around that block, but couldn't the trail have been built around that?

I may be studying the Cultural Trail for a class project in urban planning, in particular I'm wondering what role the actors played (such as the Conrad, even though we already know the answer to that) and what made them choose the route they did for the the Cultural Trail, was it the private interests that directed it a certain way or not. I for one had always wondered why the southern side of Washington Street wasn't chosen, I would think that the Circle Centre Mall would have been okay with the Cultural Trail passing right by it. I know there's an underground parking garage around that block, but couldn't the trail have been built around that?
Here's my guess as to why the north side of Washington was chosen over the south side:

1. The south-side down ramp into the Circle Center garage between Meridian and Illinois. (In retrospect, it probably would have been easier to create a work-around for this than trying to deal with the Conrad across the street.)
2. They really wanted the trail to go directly past the Indiana Repertory Theatre and the Statehouse (a rendering of the trail passing by the Theatre was even produced in the very early stages of planning so I think they really wanted that). It is the Cultural Trail after all and there's not much culture on the south side of Washington.
3. Using the south side would have required an additional two street crossings of Washington, a very large street. One of them likely would have been a double-cross with West St. to get to White River Park, which would have been a nightmare.

Gregory and Appel used to be in the American Building at Vermont and Penn. I worked security for the Indianapolis Star/News building in the early 90's. The American Bldg was part of our responsibility. There was at the time a large doorway that connected the 2 buildings. I recall that the penthouse suite had a spiral staircase that led to a neat lounge/bar area. I can see apartments doing very well there.

^^
I should have read the article first.

How exciting!

So the newest map from the Cultural Trail team shows nothing on Monument Circle.

http://www.indyculturaltrail.org/assets/documents/1002_VisitorsMapBrochure_V14_Jan2012.pdf

Did they finally decide to lop the lollipop? THANK GOD.


Just re-reading some things from the past week and it brought up a couple questions. Now the cultural trail map has been updated. I'm not trying to be critical for the heck of it. I'm thinking of continuity, presentation, completeness and consistency, of a world class asset for the city. And from an out of towners eye view and expectation in reading about this over the past 5 years...

Now do they plan on continuing to build the trail down Washington St and connect it in White River State Park using the same standard width and style as Alabama and Capitol this year 2012? OR are they going to piece meal this trail where you make an assumption the trail continues on and then meets the segment starts just west of West street? (hope not, that is a worst case scenario and a disaster if they do that).

I just have this feeling that it isn't going to be finished like they originally planned and that this GRAND concept of a world class trail kind of petered out in the end. For some reason it doesn't seem like an end to end vision anymore because the canal didn't change any, or at least not yet, and its a glorified concrete sidewalk. At least change the sidewalk (some) to give you the feeling of continuity to the trail.

Georgia Street turned out flashy and classy and completed end to end to a vision. So does anybody know here on the trail itself???? Other than Virginia Avenue being worked on, they aren't done yet are they?

Just re-reading some things from the past week and it brought up a couple questions. Now the cultural trail map has been updated. I'm not trying to be critical for the heck of it. I'm thinking of continuity, presentation, completeness and consistency, of a world class asset for the city. And from an out of towners eye view and expectation in reading about this over the past 5 years...

Now do they plan on continuing to build the trail down Washington St and connect it in White River State Park using the same standard width and style as Alabama and Capitol this year 2012? OR are they going to piece meal this trail where you make an assumption the trail continues on and then meets the segment starts just west of West street? (hope not, that is a worst case scenario and a disaster if they do that).

I just have this feeling that it isn't going to be finished like they originally planned and that this GRAND concept of a world class trail kind of petered out in the end. For some reason it doesn't seem like an end to end vision anymore because the canal didn't change any, or at least not yet, and its a glorified concrete sidewalk. At least change the sidewalk (some) to give you the feeling of continuity to the trail.

Georgia Street turned out flashy and classy and completed end to end to a vision. So does anybody know here on the trail itself???? Other than Virginia Avenue being worked on, they aren't done yet are they?
If I'm understanding your question correctly, the unfinished section of Washington St. wasn't even started last year because they knew they wouldn't be able to finish it by the Super Bowl and didn't want a construction mess there. They'll work on that section this year.

As for the Canal, I'm not sure they ever really intended to do much in terms of officially tying it into the Cultural Trail.

If I'm understanding your question correctly, the unfinished section of Washington St. wasn't even started last year because they knew they wouldn't be able to finish it by the Super Bowl and didn't want a construction mess there. They'll work on that section this year.

As for the Canal, I'm not sure they ever really intended to do much in terms of officially tying it into the Cultural Trail.


Thanks for the info. That is a good point that you wouldn't want construction during the superbowl time period.

I do hope they do something on the canal. They show it on the MAP but more importantly, the canal is in sad shape in the edge stones at the waters edge. Many are crumbling and the bridge where the plaza and fountain area is by the old church is very sad shape along with the slate that they originally used. It would be nice to fix that stuff up and use some colored brick or somehting to show difference where the trail has continuity to the canal etc... The canal is a showcase and maybe the city should take some ideas from the riverwalk in San Antonio. Now that is mega world class. I know before others yell at me... "they are apples and oranges" True but take some common things the trail and the canal can share and make it consistent without doing an overhaul of the canal sidewalk. At least in San Antonio they use stone work all over the place and also the Riverwalk. It shows consistency to other things.

From the horse's mouth concerning Washington st. "The horse" sends weekly updates to those who need them, I think jjgn gets these too. The past couple weeks have been just about a bus shelter on West Wash. This came from March 2nd.

It doesn't answer all your questions, but It gives no indication, and I have no reason to believe that plans and methods have changed at all. business as usual.

-------------------------
A quick update on upcoming Cultural Trail construction along Washington Street:

· Our contractor has not set a definite date to return to Washington Street yet, but it could happen as early as March 15, 2012


· The majority of 2012 work will take place between Capitol Avenue and West Street. This will be the area with lane and parking restrictions. Traffic will be restricted to three travel lanes between Capitol and Senate, necking down to two lanes at Missouri, and then widening back out to six lanes at West Street. There will be no parking on the north side of Washington during construction. The restrictions, at the least, will extend through the summer.


· There will be some catch up work between Alabama and Capitol, but it will be localized. Traffic restrictions will probably be limited to short term parking lane closures.


· The work between Capitol and West will begin with the removal of the existing curb, some existing sidewalk, and some of the existing street.


· This will be followed by utility relocation work. Based on work performed by the utilities last year, it takes about 30 days per block to complete their relocation work. That means that the Trail contractor may not have complete use of the area until the middle of June.


· Once the utilities are clear, we will place underground drainage, irrigation and electrical facilities. That will be followed by curb placement, placement of stone subbase, concrete paver base, and finally Trail pavers.


Just re-reading some things from the past week and it brought up a couple questions. Now the cultural trail map has been updated. I'm not trying to be critical for the heck of it. I'm thinking of continuity, presentation, completeness and consistency, of a world class asset for the city. And from an out of towners eye view and expectation in reading about this over the past 5 years...

Now do they plan on continuing to build the trail down Washington St and connect it in White River State Park using the same standard width and style as Alabama and Capitol this year 2012? OR are they going to piece meal this trail where you make an assumption the trail continues on and then meets the segment starts just west of West street? (hope not, that is a worst case scenario and a disaster if they do that).

I just have this feeling that it isn't going to be finished like they originally planned and that this GRAND concept of a world class trail kind of petered out in the end. For some reason it doesn't seem like an end to end vision anymore because the canal didn't change any, or at least not yet, and its a glorified concrete sidewalk. At least change the sidewalk (some) to give you the feeling of continuity to the trail.

Georgia Street turned out flashy and classy and completed end to end to a vision. So does anybody know here on the trail itself???? Other than Virginia Avenue being worked on, they aren't done yet are they?

FYI: Jonathan Frey's video won the Hoosier Love competition. That was the one I posted earlier that starred ablerock.

I haven't tried digging up the article, but I'm pretty sure there was something announced a few years ago pertaining to planned maintenance along the canal. The problem of cracking cement on the steps, canal edges, and bridges was discussed as a major problem - and I thought there was some kind of fix planned that would take place over several years. They started working on parts of this issue two years ago - and they may have done a little more last year. They put new granite steps and new railings all over in the area around the Ohio Street basin. I think they also made some improvements near the St. Clair Street basin.

There are still many places however where the canalside cement "edging" is falling apart. Hopefully it will be fixed soon as part of the same plan that resulted in the recently completed improvements -- maybe this Spring and Summer. Granite instead of cement makes a huge difference. Does anyone else remember hearing or reading anything along these lines?

On a related note -- one of the "46 for XLVI" art projects was the installation of some very nice ceramic tile work on the pedestrian bridge over the canal near where Vermont Street would have gone across. It adds a lot to see the beautiful tiles instead of just the previous gray cement. There were several other beautiful murals completed last Summer / Fall that I need to get down by the canal to check out again. While I'm there I'll check to see if any maintenance work looks looks like it might be getting ready to start.

My understanding is that the C T will be completed this year on Washington Street and Virginia Ave., as planned, and that the connection between the existing Trail at Capitol and Washington and the Trail at the leaping-deer-or-elk fountain in front of the western art museum will be the normal, strong trail.

BTW, the bike rack in front of the Conrad is for Conrad use only, per a doorman answering my request to park a bike there a few weeks ago. Kite has a similarly placed, very-close-to-the-building bike rack to the north of the entrance to their HQ on South Meridian.

The Virginia ave section of the CT is currently scheduled to be complete in October. It should be walkable months before that though.

http://p.twimg.com/An1EW23CMAIjs6d.jpg:small

I could not resist reposting this pic, taken last night at everyone's favorite spot. Photo credit: arenn. His caption: "The trail ends here"

PS. The Caddy was still there this morning.

we rode the trail along this section last week and it PISSED US OFF so badly. It's a total disgrace

been away for a while...

I LOVE the idea of a restoration of all of the Fall Creek bridges! I think that alone would really help the area to look better - with the cleanbing up of the Creek and removing a lot of the sand/silt that has collected over the year. Would make for a terrific recreation opportunity.

Ive been saying it for years, I would love to see a nice, modern bridge bulit over White River - preferably on Washington Street, but over at IUPUI would be great too. It would do a lot for White River State Park and our architecture.

What waste of public money? Money spent helping the Conrad get built?

Most people are very happy to have the 8 miles of cultural trail connecting all parts of downtown and connecting it to the various greenways and bike lanes extending out to the rest of the region. A large portion of the funds for the Cultural Trail came from the private sector. Its the 90 feet in front of the Conrad Hotel that people are complaining about because they stopped the Cultural Trail from connecting through in that section.

The waste of money in front of the Conrad. They should've just left it as it was there, instead of WASTING money to make their asinine valet area/parking lot look "pretty", which really just highlights how stupid it is to allow them to park cars there.

Got it. I agree.

been away for a while...

I LOVE the idea of a restoration of all of the Fall Creek bridges! I think that alone would really help the area to look better - with the cleanbing up of the Creek and removing a lot of the sand/silt that has collected over the year. Would make for a terrific recreation opportunity.

Obviously Meridian Street is well underway. The entire "upstream" limestone face has been removed.

A big chunk of the Central Ave. stone-arch bridge fell in last month. I'd guess it will be next on the list, but rebuilding a stone arch bridge from 1900 is not a trivial exercise. (Yes...it survived the 1913 Flood, unlike several of the other bridges downstream and the original Central Canal Aqueduct.)

You should notice clearing of the "bridge vistas": views to the historic bridges on College and Central from southbound Fall Creek Parkway. It's on the "to do" list for the Great Indy Cleanup in late April. These are great pieces of historic architecture by themselves, and no one ever sees them!

The sandbars are partly the result of demolition of a downstream dam. There used to be about a 4' (low-head) dam between I-65 and MLK, and removing it has exposed those big brushy sand-and-gravel islands around Meridian and Illinois.

If you look carefully at the Meridian construction site, there is a temporary cofferdam just upstream of the bridge. Last week after some rain, it was holding about 3 feet of water back, and the upstream creek was "full" from bank to bank. A new dam somewhere below Capitol might make things look a lot nicer.

Recreation involving water contact isn't really an option until the Deep Tunnel project is complete and the CSO flows are diverted. We're pretty much limited to walking, biking, playing in the park spaces along the creek for now. But someday, 30th & Fall Creek Park and Barton Park could rival Holliday Park in "riverwalk" potential.

Do you know when the Deep Tunnel project is expected to be completed? Is it ten more years or less than that?

I agree it would be nice to see a small dam built somewhere around where MLK crosses Fall Creek (the waterway). To have the water in Fall Creek always be another three or four feet deeper would make it be a very ideal waterway for casual recreation and would siginigicantly improve the views of it.

Do you know when the Deep Tunnel project is expected to be completed? Is it ten more years or less than that?

I agree it would be nice to see a small dam built somewhere around where MLK crosses Fall Creek (the waterway). To have the water in Fall Creek always be another three or four feet deeper would make it be a very ideal waterway for casual recreation and would siginigicantly improve the views of it.

2025.

To paraphrase a friend of mine, "we're spending hundreds of millions to dig a 25-mile, 200-foot deep subway system, and then filling it with $hi+. But it's still cheaper and easier than all the other alternatives for getting sewage out of the rivers."

The alternative would be to dig up every street in the CSO area and re-plumb (separate) the storm and sanitary sewers.

BTW, the bike rack in front of the Conrad is for Conrad use only, per a doorman answering my request to park a bike there a few weeks ago. Kite has a similarly placed, very-close-to-the-building bike rack to the north of the entrance to their HQ on South Meridian.

Dunno who paid for that bike rack, but it for sure wasn't paid for with CT money. Maybe the Conrad and Kite do own them.

Regardless, the CT commission will be installing multitudes of new bike racks starting maybe May. They were given a donation of a ton of bike racks this winter, but they don't match the existing CT racks. At this point they're deciding whether to go ahead and use the donated non-conforming racks or order new ones and donate the non-conforming ones to someone else in the city.

Anyone know of a non-profit organization who could use some donated bike racks? My guess is that they'll go to IUPUI or some school, or be used on canal or something.

Dunno who paid for that bike rack, but it for sure wasn't paid for with CT money. Maybe the Conrad and Kite do own them.

Regardless, the CT commission will be installing multitudes of new bike racks starting maybe May. They were given a donation of a ton of bike racks this winter, but they don't match the existing CT racks. At this point they're deciding whether to go ahead and use the donated non-conforming racks or order new ones and donate the non-conforming ones to someone else in the city.

Anyone know of a non-profit organization who could use some donated bike racks? My guess is that they'll go to IUPUI or some school, or be used on canal or something.

INDYGO! bus stops........or urban, near urban schools to help promote safe routes to school funding and kids biking to class.........

This may seem an odd request after my last post... and it's purely coincidental.

I need to quickly purchase a bike rack for 8 to 10 bikes to use on private property. It needs to be easily permanently mountable, and asthetics don't matter much. I know there are bicyclists galore on this board who are in the know.. I mean, I can use google and the phone book, but if someone can recommend a good source, please let me know!

A more in depth summary of work to be completed soon:

A quick update on Cultural Trail construction along Washington Street:

· Our contractor should appear on site next week and start doing small operations that do not require closing lanes of traffic. Things like:

o Adjustments and repairs of things that were built last year

o Installation of some bollards and some irrigation equipment,

o Surveying to determine new curb lines and Trail locations.

o Some saw cutting of existing pavement and sidewalks between Capitol Avenue and West Street.

· Lane restrictions should be in place by 4.02.2012. The north half of Washington will be closed for construction. There will be no parking available on the north side of Washington.

o There will generally be three westbound thru lanes between Capitol and Senate.

o There will generally be two westbound thru lanes and a left turn only lanes between Senate and Missouri

o Between Missouri and West the road will spread back out to six lanes. Initially there will be one left only lane, three thru lanes, and two right only lanes while we construct on the southeast corner at West. We will shift that when we work on the northeast corner.

· You should be seeing orange construction signs, barrels, construction equipment and workers by 4.02.2012.

· There will probably be some utility work happening in this time as well. It will probably be limited to some exploratory excavation on the north side of Washington to locate underground facilities.

· There will be some landscape planting between Alabama and Capitol later in April.

· Pedestrian traffic will be maintained through the construction area. There will be some periods where pedestrians will have to cross to the south side of Washington between Missouri and West. There will be some periods when specific crosswalks will be closed. We will place signage to direct pedestrian traffic.



Construction will probably run from now until the end of October. The general progression will be:

· Removal of existing facilities from Capitol to West.

· Construction of underground drainage facilities and any necessary relocation of underground utilities from Capitol to West.

· Construction of curb, followed by installation of trench drains, and then underground electrical and irrigation facilities. To through this point we typically bury everything that we build, so it looks like we are not making much progress. This work will likely progress block by block, instead of working the entire area at once.

· Construction of subgrade followed by concrete paver base installation.

· Installation of Trail pavers, lights, planters.


Just re-reading some things from the past week and it brought up a couple questions. Now the cultural trail map has been updated. I'm not trying to be critical for the heck of it. I'm thinking of continuity, presentation, completeness and consistency, of a world class asset for the city. And from an out of towners eye view and expectation in reading about this over the past 5 years...

Now do they plan on continuing to build the trail down Washington St and connect it in White River State Park using the same standard width and style as Alabama and Capitol this year 2012? OR are they going to piece meal this trail where you make an assumption the trail continues on and then meets the segment starts just west of West street? (hope not, that is a worst case scenario and a disaster if they do that).

I just have this feeling that it isn't going to be finished like they originally planned and that this GRAND concept of a world class trail kind of petered out in the end. For some reason it doesn't seem like an end to end vision anymore because the canal didn't change any, or at least not yet, and its a glorified concrete sidewalk. At least change the sidewalk (some) to give you the feeling of continuity to the trail.

Georgia Street turned out flashy and classy and completed end to end to a vision. So does anybody know here on the trail itself???? Other than Virginia Avenue being worked on, they aren't done yet are they?

Anyone else following the progress of the asphalt path being constructed on the west side of Michigan Road? Anyone else notice that the City appears to be taking no action to narrow incredibly wide driveways and other excess asphalt in the right-of-way where private property owners have paved or graveled the area between their private property and the actually traveled lanes of the street? Anyone else notice how the "trail" at many of these locations, such as the auto repair business just south of Kessler Boulevard, consists of nothing more than two painted lines on a sea of asphalt that is otherwise a pedestrian no-man's-land in between the street and private parking and driveway areas? Anyone else thinking that it would hardly be possible to do a worse job on this project and that we need to demand much, much better?

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=5550+michigan+rd&hl=en&ll=39.852823,-86.194428&spn=0.000879,0.001206&sll=39.851166,-86.19357&sspn=0.004975,0.009645&t=h&hnear=5550+Michigan+Rd,+Indianapolis,+Indiana+46228&z=20
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=5550+michigan+rd&hl=en&ll=39.854245,-86.195061&spn=0.000879,0.001206&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.903538,79.013672&t=h&hnear=5550+Michigan+Rd,+Indianapolis,+Indiana+46228&z=20

Any movment here? It has been quiet on this side of downtown.

IBJ posted an article about it in premium content today and I've let me subscription lapse. I'll pick up a print copy, but here's the teaser from ibj.com:

-----

"Former partners in Kosene & Kosene Development have settled a legal dispute that jeopardized redevelopment of the vacant former Bank One Operations Center downtown. Milhaus Development has until May 1 to begin construction."

-----

Interesting because when I asked for the construction start date on Milhaus's blog a few days ago, David Leazenby responded: "Looking forward to sometime this summer.".

It's a little OT, but saw this piece on Evansville:

http://www.indianaeconomicdigest.net/main.asp?SectionID=31&SubSectionID=135&ArticleID=64406&TM=34311.09

Their airport only has two airlines with four cities served. Wow. When I was a kid, I remember getting on an Eastern Airlines flight in Louisville that made a quick jump over to Evansville to pick up more passengers before heading on to Atlanta. The airline business has sure changed.

Here's Washington Monthly piece on air travel troubles causing economic growth problems in cities of the Indianapolis size tier:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/march_april_2012/features/terminal_sickness035756.php?page=all&print=true

It's written from a far left perspective, but interesting. Indy's non-hub status clearly hurts it in some way. But this will never be an international gateway city of importance - maybe 50 years from how who knows, but no time soon. Need to figure out how to work with it. If the Indy's of this world suffer, how much more the Evansvilles? Eville is doing quite well right now with manufacturing, but its going to be very tough for them from a while collar job perspective. You may remember when Mead-Johnson moved its HQ out a while back.

One thing that probably has helped Indy (with its airport situation) is that it never really has been a hub. They haven't had to "drop way back" from some much higher level previously. Prices have always been pretty good as well, because of no dominance by one airline.

One thing that probably has helped Indy (with its airport situation) is that it never really has been a hub. They haven't had to "drop way back" from some much higher level previously. Prices have always been pretty good as well, because of no dominance by one airline.

Garfield, once upon a time US Air had nearly half the market here (80's); prices weren't great and it paid to drive to Dayton or Cincinnati. More proof of your point, with which I agree.

However, it does take nearly a whole day to get to any other non-hub city from here by air. That's the main point of the article.

Consider that 3/4 of the metro area lives 30-45 minutes from airport parking. Then add 1 hour (at least) check-in/TSA/board time. One-hour flight, two hours transfer, another one-hour flight, 30 minutes to get bags and transport, another 30-45 minutes to final destination. That's 7 hours to get from (say) Indy to Pittsburgh, Philly, DC, Milwaukee, KC, Omaha, St. Louis, or Buffalo. None of those cities is more than 10 hours drive.

Other regional destinations are still hubs or mini-hubs with good direct service: Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, MSP, Nashville, Memphis. (No point in flying to Cinti when you can drive there in 90 minutes, or Columbus in under 3 hours.)

I'm sure it played into Lincoln Financial's departure from Ft. Wayne.

It didn't hurt that Lincoln Financial's CEO was from Philadelphia, where he relocated the firm.

One thing that probably has helped Indy (with its airport situation) is that it never really has been a hub. They haven't had to "drop way back" from some much higher level previously. Prices have always been pretty good as well, because of no dominance by one airline.


Wasn't Indy in the 60's into the mid 70's a hub for Eastern Airlines? I thought it was back then. I remember Eastern taking the whole eastern section (no pun intended) of the airport back then before they added more concources on the west side in the 80's.

Fox 59 had a story about this development last night. I can't find it on their website tho. It didn't give much additional info, but they interviewed David Leazenby who pointed out the high demand for rentals in the area and near total lack of them..

Interestingly, Kosene and Kosene has the Towers on Market back front and center on their website. Probably just testing the waters to see if there's any interest. Frankly, I don't think the site calls for all that many condos. A better designed Riley Towers, mostly rentals and retail, is what the area needs.

http://www.koseneandkosene.com/thetowers/towersrendering.jpg

IBJ posted an article about it in premium content today and I've let me subscription lapse. I'll pick up a print copy, but here's the teaser from ibj.com:

-----

"Former partners in Kosene & Kosene Development have settled a legal dispute that jeopardized redevelopment of the vacant former Bank One Operations Center downtown. Milhaus Development has until May 1 to begin construction."

-----

Interesting because when I asked for the construction start date on Milhaus's blog a few days ago, David Leazenby responded: "Looking forward to sometime this summer.".

The student housing tower on the canal has been redesigned from 26 down to 10 stories:

http://www.urbanindy.com/2012/03/19/canal-tower-redesigned/

http://www.urbanindy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Canal-View-from-the-South.jpg

Feels a lot more reasonable to me.. I didn't mind the height at all, but it makes my skin crawl seeing huge high rises like the One America tower surrounded by seas of parking lots. I'd much rather see developers building midrises filling in those lots before more high rises.

I know that the cause and effect doesn't necessarily work that way.. it's just an emotional reaction.

The student housing tower on the canal has been redesigned from 26 down to 10 stories:

http://www.urbanindy.com/2012/03/19/canal-tower-redesigned/

http://www.urbanindy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Canal-View-from-the-South.jpg

Yet another commie block.

c'mon, that's not quite fair.. THIS is a commieblock:

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4505/fotosait99.8c/0_3dcc1_5c981164_orig

I find them fascinating. Like studying a beehive or an anthill under a magnifying glass. SSC has a whole forum dedicated to them with dozens of threads and maybe thousands of pics:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=477

Yet another commie block.

Man -- I hope Ratio tries again. I'm fine with the height. I just hope they do something to break up all of the red brick - and also, they need a better western frontage along the canal. I know this isn't a large-budget project -- but still... They wouldn't have to spend too much to be able to make some significant improvements.

Man -- I hope Ratio tries again. I'm fine with the height. I just hope they do something to break up all of the red brick - and also, they need a better western frontage along the canal. I know this isn't a large-budget project -- but still... They wouldn't have to spend too much to be able to make some significant improvements.

Simply breaking up the red brick, or tricks with the facade won't really accomplish anything. it's the blockiness that's objectionable to most. The massive commieblocks in Poland have been renovated in an attempt to make them less bleak, and they sure are interesting now, but really, you con't put enough lipstick on those pigs..

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8079/imgp4040cr9.jpg

What needs to happen here imho is something needs to be built beside it to hide it's flatness. the canal frontage is fine at first glance, and may even be pretty nice in person and with more detail.

The designs of some of these buildings makes me want to go lie down. I know I was out of my mind a couple months ago with the 26 story design and color.... Guess I liked the height at the time, not sure, but this 10 story thing, come on! Sometimes I wish nothing would get built downtown, if this is what it entails.

It's pretty obvious that this was a negotiated redesign with the city that focused on three things:

1. Reducing the height. There was no way this was going to stay at 26 stories given neighborhood feedback. 10 was probably an arbitrary number that seemed agreeable to both sides and allowed the economics to work for the developer.

2. Increasing the overall quality of exterior materials. The entire south wall is now brick all the way to the 10th floor. Before it was about 4 floors of brick and 22 floors of EIFS. My god that would have been awful. It appears that EIFS is still the material on the upper floors of the north face.

3. Increasing the commercial space. They went from roughly 5k to 10k sq.ft. in commercial space, which is definitely something the city would have pushed for. I'm coming to believe more and more that canal front commercial/restaurant space on the canal is folly. There is no reason to think that a canal front cafe would ever turn a profit in January. Left Bank tried and failed -- they "closed for the season" back in the fall then recently announced they're closing for good. I think the best that can be hoped for is seasonal operations, but I have a hard time believing that any developer wants to be forced into including retail space in their development that will be leased for 6 or 8 months each year.

Design didn't play in the discussions apparently. This is essentially the exact same design with 16 floors lopped off.

It's pretty obvious that this was a negotiated redesign with the city that focused on three things:

1. Reducing the height. There was no way this was going to stay at 26 stories given neighborhood feedback. 10 was probably an arbitrary number that seemed agreeable to both sides and allowed the economics to work for the developer.

2. Increasing the overall quality of exterior materials. The entire south wall is now brick all the way to the 10th floor. Before it was about 4 floors of brick and 22 floors of EIFS. My god that would have been awful. It appears that EIFS is still the material on the upper floors of the north face.

3. Increasing the commercial space. They went from roughly 5k to 10k sq.ft. in commercial space, which is definitely something the city would have pushed for. I'm coming to believe more and more that canal front commercial/restaurant space on the canal is folly. There is no reason to think that a canal front cafe would ever turn a profit in January. Left Bank tried and failed -- they "closed for the season" back in the fall then recently announced they're closing for good. I think the best that can be hoped for is seasonal operations, but I have a hard time believing that any developer wants to be forced into including retail space in their development that will be leased for 6 or 8 months each year.

Design didn't play in the discussions apparently. This is essentially the exact same design with 16 floors lopped off.

Hmm. Remove more than half of the residents, height, and structured parking. But put in MORE commercial, while thousands of square feet sit vacant already at Cosmo?

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

I guess we deserve the "suburban office park amenity" the Canal has become.

Hmm. Remove more than half of the residents, height, and structured parking. But put in MORE commercial, while thousands of square feet sit vacant already at Cosmo?

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

I guess we deserve the "suburban office park amenity" the Canal has become.

Good, albeit obvious, point. Wait, maybe it's not obvious. You'd think that developers and the City would have some good numbers to understand roughly how many housing units are needed in a given area to support x number of square feet of retail. I suppose it is a bit complicated when you must factor in commuters, tourists, visitors from other parts of the city, etc. But if it is too complicated to get a good formula that works, you could, as you suggested, look around at the vacancy rate of other commercial space nearby.

It's pretty obvious that this was a negotiated redesign with the city that focused on three things:

1. Reducing the height. There was no way this was going to stay at 26 stories given neighborhood feedback. 10 was probably an arbitrary number that seemed agreeable to both sides and allowed the economics to work for the developer.

2. Increasing the overall quality of exterior materials. The entire south wall is now brick all the way to the 10th floor. Before it was about 4 floors of brick and 22 floors of EIFS. My god that would have been awful. It appears that EIFS is still the material on the upper floors of the north face.

3. Increasing the commercial space. They went from roughly 5k to 10k sq.ft. in commercial space, which is definitely something the city would have pushed for. I'm coming to believe more and more that canal front commercial/restaurant space on the canal is folly. There is no reason to think that a canal front cafe would ever turn a profit in January. Left Bank tried and failed -- they "closed for the season" back in the fall then recently announced they're closing for good. I think the best that can be hoped for is seasonal operations, but I have a hard time believing that any developer wants to be forced into including retail space in their development that will be leased for 6 or 8 months each year.

Design didn't play in the discussions apparently. This is essentially the exact same design with 16 floors lopped off.

In my mind, there is no excuse for not requiring that at least half of every building's frontage contain retail bays. The use doesn't need to be retail. It can be flex space, office, lobby, Whatever. Standard retail bays are the most appriopriate and flexible way to have development interface with the canal. At the appropriate time, when the market is right or when the canal reaches critical mass, some of that space could change over to retail. Seems reasonable to me.

Man -- I hope Ratio tries again. I'm fine with the height. I just hope they do something to break up all of the red brick - and also, they need a better western frontage along the canal. I know this isn't a large-budget project -- but still... They wouldn't have to spend too much to be able to make some significant improvements.

I don't share your frustration with red brick... I don't think Indy has a red brick problem, it has a design problem. Sure, I like other colors of brick, stone and other building materials. But i've also seen a lot of kick-ass, modern designs using mostly red brick. Its not about the color.

My guess is that folks from the city regularly offer similar critiques about too much red brick and the need to break up facades with other colors and elements. More often than not, we end up with a hot mess of a building that is anything but clean, simple and honest. From the looks of it, I think that might have happened to some degree with City Way as well.

The Interface of the canal with surface streets is key to retail/restaurant success. The canal traffic should mostly supplement business not completely sustain it. As such, wherever the street passes over the canal a retail node should be formed. Buildings at each of the four corners where streets intersect with the canal should have retail bays at the surface and on the canal level and the spaces should be connected. The newer section of the canal suffer because many of the streets have been vacated over the canal. 9th street for instance should be extend over the canal with a beautiful bridge. Retail could not only be sustained but could thrive in this location.

There is no reason to think that a canal front cafe would ever turn a profit in January. Left Bank tried and failed -- they "closed for the season" back in the fall then recently announced they're closing for good. I think the best that can be hoped for is seasonal operations, but I have a hard time believing that any developer wants to be forced into including retail space in their development that will be leased for 6 or 8 months each year.


Their demise really had nothing to do with the canal location.

No restaurant could survive an Indianapolis winter when 75% of their seating is outdoors. How on earth did could any restaurant survive a winter with two tables inside?

Also, they were horribly slow. Lunch hours turned into two almost every time I went there. Bad service and mediocre food combined with tiny indoor space is what killed it, not the canal.

Provide a restaurant with with access from the street and canal with ample indoor seating for winter and they'll thrive, just like Creation Cafe. (Assuming they provide the basics of quality food and service, of course.)

Retail and restaurants on the canal can work, it just needs to be done intelligently and with quality. Which sadly remains to be seen.

The Interface of the canal with surface streets is key to retail/restaurant success. The canal traffic should mostly supplement business not completely sustain it. As such, wherever the street passes over the canal a retail node should be formed. Buildings at each of the four corners where streets intersect with the canal should have retail bays at the surface and on the canal level and the spaces should be connected. The newer section of the canal suffer because many of the streets have been vacated over the canal. 9th street for instance should be extend over the canal with a beautiful bridge. Retail could not only be sustained but could thrive in this location.

Word.

The Interface of the canal with surface streets is key to retail/restaurant success. The canal traffic should mostly supplement business not completely sustain it. As such, wherever the street passes over the canal a retail node should be formed. Buildings at each of the four corners where streets intersect with the canal should have retail bays at the surface and on the canal level and the spaces should be connected. The newer section of the canal suffer because many of the streets have been vacated over the canal. 9th street for instance should be extend over the canal with a beautiful bridge. Retail could not only be sustained but could thrive in this location.

Well, there is one other thing necessary to success: people have to be there (living or working) or have a compelling reason to go there.

We've all seen well-designed but nonetheless failed spaces because they lack the traffic/economic geography to sustain them.

In my mind, there is no excuse for not requiring that at least half of every building's frontage contain retail bays. The use doesn't need to be retail. It can be flex space, office, lobby, Whatever. Standard retail bays are the most appriopriate and flexible way to have development interface with the canal. At the appropriate time, when the market is right or when the canal reaches critical mass, some of that space could change over to retail. Seems reasonable to me.

Not sure I can agree entirely.

Case in point: the canal basin just north of the state office building: full of "retail/commercial bays" with offices in them...and closed miniblinds, nothing happening. Dead space. For 10 years now.

Having flex space may be partly or wholly necessary, but it's not sufficient.

I think this gets to the Monument Circle/Georgia Street equation: what's missing isn't well-designed spaces. What's missing is programmed activity that makes a space "happening" and attracts a diverse crowd.

But even then, the big solution to a dead canal is hundreds or thousands more people living along it. Perhaps even in a building that is all-residential, or one whose only "commercial bay" is the management office or fitness center.

The Interface of the canal with surface streets is key to retail/restaurant success. The canal traffic should mostly supplement business not completely sustain it. As such, wherever the street passes over the canal a retail node should be formed. Buildings at each of the four corners where streets intersect with the canal should have retail bays at the surface and on the canal level and the spaces should be connected. The newer section of the canal suffer because many of the streets have been vacated over the canal. 9th street for instance should be extend over the canal with a beautiful bridge. Retail could not only be sustained but could thrive in this location.
Couldn't agree more about bi-level restaurants. I wrote something similar a while back:

http://dig-b.blogspot.com/2009/09/development-canal-restaurants-one.html

EVERYTIME I went past the Left Bank, it was packed! I agree that the food was mediocre, the inside was not a pleasant dining experience. I think a "destination" concept would go off well on the Canal.

I don't get it....there are so many cafe opportunities on the Canal in and around the Marriott hotels and Canal Sq apts.

Their demise really had nothing to do with the canal location.

No restaurant could survive an Indianapolis winter when 75% of their seating is outdoors. How on earth did could any restaurant survive a winter with two tables inside?

Also, they were horribly slow. Lunch hours turned into two almost every time I went there. Bad service and mediocre food combined with tiny indoor space is what killed it, not the canal.

Provide a restaurant with with access from the street and canal with ample indoor seating for winter and they'll thrive, just like Creation Cafe. (Assuming they provide the basics of quality food and service, of course.)

Retail and restaurants on the canal can work, it just needs to be done intelligently and with quality. Which sadly remains to be seen.
Left Bank was middling to be sure, but come on, they clearly failed because of location. I lived on the canal for 6 years and it's a ghost town during the winter. I don't care if you put the fucking French Laundry down there, no restaurant is going to survive at canal level during the winter.

The former Indiana Landmarks headquarters on Michigan is a good place for someone to attempt a two-level restaurant. There's even a 25-ish space parking lot and lots of underutilized on-street parking nearby.

I agree -- that former Landmarks office would seem to be a very good spot -- especially with another 480 new apartments being built across the street from it over the next few years.

Moving to another area that is supposed to be filling with activity, has anyone heard anything related to programming ideas or the programmer herself who has been hired to manage the Georgia Street corridor? I hope we'll start seeing some things fairly soon -- maybe a web site at least where events will be listed and where ideas can be shared.

The person chosen to oversee the corridor was the office manager for the City-County Council. I hope she has some experience related to managing event spaces and coming up with creative ideas for invigorating and enlivening a space. I wonder how she was selected. I sure hope she has appropriate qualifications and is going to do a good job with the space. Its a great area -- but until more of the adjacent spaces are filled -- its going to be pretty slow down there most of the time. I wonder what kind of budget she has. Anyone have any insight into plans that may be coming together for the space?

The canal needs more foot traffic that isn't necessarily fitness oriented to help drive retail.

I've suggested this before, years ago I think, but I see a possibility for the canal to be used weekends for organized fairs, maybe art fairs like the Talbott Street Art Fair, except every weekend.

I had the idea after visiting the Bastille in Paris. The prison is gone, (burned in the revolution I think?) and replacing it is an open air market that everyday sprouts white tents where you can buy art and antiques and curiosities etc. much of it is quite expensive, being that the inlet that fed the Bastille with prisoners and supplies from the river is now one of the most expensive docks for small pleasure craft in the world.. Very exclusif..

But.. the Seine riverbank from the Bastille all the way to the Louvre is also used as an open air market. There are heavy duty lockers of all shapes and sizes tastefully (and sometimes not so tastefully) placed in retaining walls, hidden in unusual picnic tables etc. that house the requisite white tents and storage for exhibitors and street performers etc. People rent these lockers from the city and daily set up shop, selling their wares and painting pictures, performing their acrobatics and wearing their costumes etc. all from equipment stored in these lockers. Those who don't pay to use this service are usually escorted away from the area.

I don't see why we couldn't do something similar on the canal. All the city needs is to build some interesting storage facilities to keep the tents and equipment and rent space in strategic areas along the canal to small retailers. These retailers would be required to erect and tear down their rented tents daily and store them in their rented lockers. Voila! instant art fairs every weekend.

The lockers themselves could be a decorative part of the landscape.. built into picnic tables and permanent restroom facilities and surrounding buildings etc.

With the right people organizing it, I don't see why that couldn't work. It would help drive retail and bring more people into the area driving further development.

Their demise really had nothing to do with the canal location.

No restaurant could survive an Indianapolis winter when 75% of their seating is outdoors. How on earth did could any restaurant survive a winter with two tables inside?

Also, they were horribly slow. Lunch hours turned into two almost every time I went there. Bad service and mediocre food combined with tiny indoor space is what killed it, not the canal.

Provide a restaurant with with access from the street and canal with ample indoor seating for winter and they'll thrive, just like Creation Cafe. (Assuming they provide the basics of quality food and service, of course.)

Retail and restaurants on the canal can work, it just needs to be done intelligently and with quality. Which sadly remains to be seen.

I am heartily in favor of programming the canal space to bring people there for reasons other than exercise and strolling.

However, with any idea for programming the canal I think it's important to imagine the idea being implemented on a 23 degree day in January with the wind whipping up the canal.

I am heartily in favor of programming the canal space to bring people there for reasons other than exercise and strolling.

However, with any idea for programming the canal I think it's important to imagine the idea being implemented on a 23 degree day in January with the wind whipping up the canal.

Which is why I'm thinking that seasonal temporary spaces that don't require a great deal of infrastructure would be a good supplement. Obviously this wouldn't work in foul weather months.

We all seem to want our version of Austin's River Walk.. with our climate that just doesn't seem feasible to me.

Which is why I'm thinking seasonal temporary spaces that don't require a great deal of infrastructure would be a good supplement. Obviously this wouldn't work in foul weather months.

We all seem to want our version of Austin's River Walk.. with our climate that just doesn't seem feasible to me.
Sorry, I thought we were discussing programming in the context of trying to get more people to the canal at times when they wouldn't normally be there. Programming would be nice during the summer but I think the canal sells itself when the weather is nice and seasonal businesses could do well. As cwilson noted, Left Bank was usually packed during the summer (particularly during lunch).

The development pattern of the canal has been so fundamentally screwed up over the years that I've basically lost all hope of it being even a shadow of the River Walk. We can nip around the edges -- add a couple hundred students here, add some programming there, a sidewalk cafe or two -- but it's never going to be even close because you can't work around the weather and the undesirability of the canal walk during the winter.

I've said in the past that we would probably do better to focus on Senate for retail and let the canal basically remain a nice linear park (a.k.a. suburban office park amenity).

I think we're in near total agreement.. but man you're so bleak about it! There's still planty of room for development and besides an occasional IUPUI event, we're seeing almost no event planning at all.. It's underutilized to be sure, but there's tons of opportunity there to make the place special.

It'll just never be River Walk. I think that future efforts need to encourage it to become primarily a special event and residential area. Retail may follow.. who knows.

I'm thankful that the city has the foresight to force developers to include retail, even if it's underutilized at this point. That may change as the place becomes more populated, and it isn't like those empty storefronts are worse than a brick wall..

Sorry, I thought we were discussing programming in the context of trying to get more people to the canal at times when they wouldn't normally be there. Programming would be nice during the summer but I think the canal sells itself when the weather is nice and seasonal businesses could do well. As cwilson noted, Left Bank was usually packed during the summer (particularly during lunch).

The development pattern of the canal has been so fundamentally screwed up over the years that I've basically lost all hope of it being even a shadow of the River Walk. We can nip around the edges -- add a couple hundred students here, add some programming there, a sidewalk cafe or two -- but it's never going to be even close because you can't work around the weather and the undesirability of the canal walk during the winter.

I've said in the past that we would probably do better to focus on Senate for retail and let the canal basically remain a nice linear park (a.k.a. suburban office park amenity).

IBJ is reporting that the commercial aspect will only be 2800 sqft with the remaining space to be used as a community ammenity area......

IBJ is reporting that the commercial aspect will only be 2800 sqft with the remaining space to be used as a community ammenity area......

In other words, a useless pocket park?

This whole "special event space planning" gets pretty complicated, pretty quickly.

Where does the money come from to pay for setting up events (with music, lighting, decorations, set-up and clean-up, etc.? Which places most need to have a special events coordinator? (the canal? Georgia Street? the Circle? other areas?) How do you make sure you are not hurting other events in other places by pulling people away from those areas (which have been very successfully hosting other major events in other places for decades)?

Big events have been held in places like American Legion Mall, Military Park, Talbott Street, Holary Rosary neighborhood, Woodruff Place, IMA, Broad Ripple, White River State Park, etc. for decades. Hopefully any special event planning would not diminish any of the other big events that have been happening for a long time, and which have largely occurred without the help of a special, salaried management person to oversee them. (Mostly of the other big events are run by neighborhood groups or "special interest" groups -- ie Irish Society, Hispanic Association, Indy Pride, Holy Rosary church, etc.).

Should special events be held mostly when there aren't other big events already going on - to bring people in? or should they be held mostly when there are other big events already planned - such as NCAAs, B10 football, Black Expo, etc.? (or both?) How do the space organizers coordinate their plans -- ie events going on at the Circle coordinated with events going on along Georgia Street? Are three different "space organizers" needed -- or should there just be one larger organizing committee that oversees events at all three spaces (canal, Ga. Street, Circle)?

How does Indianapolis Downtown Inc. fit into all of this as well? How are "special event space" events coordinated with big events going on in other large event spaces?
Like I said -- it gets pretty complex.

I think it would work best not to over-program the new spaces with large events. Maybe each could plan to have 2 - 3 large, special events -- and then mostly serve in supporting roles when other big events are going on. A lot is going to depend on what the particular event might be. Live music is almost always good - to help draw in people. You might not always want to have additional food / beverage locations set up though in a place like Georgia Street - if the existing businesses can handle the amount of traffic. Each situation will demand its own specific set-up to fit with the type of event.

I hope we begin to hear more about how the Georgia Street coordinator plans to organize things -- and also, to find out if anything is going to be changing relating to the Circle and its layout / events planning. There is plenty to think about in terms of how all of these spaces can best be organized.

I think we're in near total agreement.. but man you're so bleak about it! There's still planty of room for development and besides an occasional IUPUI event, we're seeing almost no event planning at all.. It's underutilized to be sure, but there's tons of opportunity there to make the place special.

It'll just never be River Walk. I think that future efforts need to encourage it to become primarily a special event and residential area. Retail may follow.. who knows.

I'm thankful that the city has the foresight to force developers to include retail, even if it's underutilized at this point. That may change as the place becomes more populated, and it isn't like those empty storefronts are worse than a brick wall..
One man's bleak is another man's realistic.

Like I said, I lived there for 6 years and watched one promising thing after another either never materialize or actually come to fruition only to fail. About the only truly successful thing that was added to the canal during my time there was Creation Cafe.

Euphoria failed (it is a CRIME that the city didn't support that place)
Zing failed
Left Bank Cafe failed
The hoped-for grocery store in the Gibson Building never materialized
The ground floor space in the Cosmo still isn't occupied
The ground floor space in the HITS Building still isn't occupied

Everybody keeps saying we're one more this-or-that project from turning the corner but things don't seem to really change. If the Cosmo can't rent out their commercial space with the supposedly amazing canal nearby, 218 upscale apartments upstairs, thousands more people living within 3 blocks, thousands more working within about 5 blocks, and one of the highest traffic counts in all of downtown (Michigan at Senate) what is it going to take for the area to change?

Maybe Canal Tower is going to change everything, but I'll believe it when I see it. Block 400 and the new Marsh is probably the best hope for a truly catalytic change to the area, but it will pull the "center of gravity" away from the canal toward Senate. Maybe that's actually a good thing.

This whole "special event space planning" gets pretty complicated, pretty quickly.



It all depends on the space i guess. A good friend of mine is throwing non profit music and arts festival, called Knollfest, which raises money for the Broad Ripple Magnet School's art programs. She took last year off to reorganize, and the two years before that it was on the Berkley Ave. knoll, over by butler. This year though the event is being held in Broad Ripple park, and it only costs about 400 dollars to rent the entire park out for the day. Which is a great deal for an event space of that size complete with some parking and easy access to the village.

The canal is a different story though I'm sure. Its not really a good space to party just because of the water and lack of plaza or patio space. And its just kinda lame. There's not much interesting there, minus a view.

As for that new rendering... I actually think that will work much better than any tower. But all those tiny windows and blank walls make it look really modular, and possibly poorly designed on the inside. Ive always noticed buildings that lack windows on entire walls, often have less than desirable interiors. But still, its more appropriate than what's there.

Too bad it looks like the Ghost of Winona...

I was thinking the same thing -- it reminds me of the old Winona Hospital on N. Meridian -- and also a little of the ghost of the old IUPUI Union Building just off of W. Michigan. Both were not very pretty buildings.

As for the comment about organizing special events -- I agree that it isn't necessarily too difficult to organize one event. What I was saying is that it gets complicated if there are numerous special events spaces and you are trying to program only certain ones and also trying to coordinate appropriately for the various activities that are going on at certain times near the space or in other spaces where other major events are going on.

I just hope we can keep having all of the great special events throughout Indy (Irish fest, Italian fest, Talbott Street Arts, Penrod, Broad Ripple Jazz Fest, Fiesta, Indy Pride, 500 Festival, Black Expo, Strawberry fest, West fest, Rib fest, China festival, Indian Market, Octoberfest, Festival of Lanterns, Middle East fest, International Festival, etc., etc.) but also have a lot of well planned events at these "new" special places - at the right time and at the right size.

It definitely can be done -- but it just will involve some good planning and coordinating. Undoubtedly some things might not work out perfectly the first time -- but hopefully things will get figured out so that eventually things will work well for all.

On the canal thing. How did the outside Super Bowl events do, that may go over well even in the winter on the canal? Also, I wish that a great cafe could go in the area. Just feel that alittle vision would help.

As for that new rendering... I actually think that will work much better than any tower. But all those tiny windows and blank walls make it look really modular, and possibly poorly designed on the inside. Ive always noticed buildings that lack windows on entire walls, often have less than desirable interiors. But still, its more appropriate than what's there.

Too bad it looks like the Ghost of Winona...

Sometimes cost and site constraints dictate material and construction style, which in turn dictates design. This is a structural concrete building, cast in place with units arranged around a central hall on the long (east-west) axis. It is perched on a cast-concrete garage base that covers almost 100% of the site; the garage is mostly wrapped with living space as at the Cosmopolitan. The tower configuration means "solid ends" for fire stairs, as at the Lugar and Barton towers.

Think "Barton Tower on top of Cosmopolitan". This is way better than Barton Tower.

I was thinking the same thing -- it reminds me of the old Winona Hospital on N. Meridian -- and also a little of the ghost of the old IUPUI Union Building just off of W. Michigan. Both were not very pretty buildings.

As for the comment about organizing special events -- I agree that it isn't necessarily too difficult to organize one event. What I was saying is that it gets complicated if there are numerous special events spaces and you are trying to program only certain ones and also trying to coordinate appropriately for the various activities that are going on at certain times near the space or in other spaces where other major events are going on.

I just hope we can keep having all of the great special events throughout Indy (Irish fest, Italian fest, Talbott Street Arts, Penrod, Broad Ripple Jazz Fest, Fiesta, Indy Pride, 500 Festival, Black Expo, Strawberry fest, West fest, Rib fest, China festival, Indian Market, Octoberfest, Festival of Lanterns, Middle East fest, International Festival, etc., etc.) but also have a lot of well planned events at these "new" special places - at the right time and at the right size.

It definitely can be done -- but it just will involve some good planning and coordinating. Undoubtedly some things might not work out perfectly the first time -- but hopefully things will get figured out so that eventually things will work well for all.

It looks like Italian Fest is cancelled for the year. The event manager has thrown in the towel after 29 years. I hope they find a replacement. I love that thing!

Oh no! I'm sure it was a huge amount of work. I always thought it was just a huge effort put on by all of the different Italian families that belonged to Holy Rosary church. I suppose there did need to be someone to be the official "top" event manager for it though. It was probably some little Italian grandma in her 80's that has run the show for 40 years - and finally decided to say its time to retire. (I'm just making all of this up -- I really have no idea how its run.)

Yes -- I agree -- I hope some one or some group comes along to take over the job of running the event. Its always a highlight of the start of Summer.

It looks like Italian Fest is cancelled for the year. The event manager has thrown in the towel after 29 years. I hope they find a replacement. I love that thing!

They'll be having a mini festival this year, hopefully back in full swing next year when they find a new manager. The last guy had to quit for health reasons, and it isn't a paid position.

Oh no! I'm sure it was a huge amount of work. I always thought it was just a huge effort put on by all of the different Italian families that belonged to Holy Rosary church. I suppose there did need to be someone to be the official "top" event manager for it though. It was probably some little Italian grandma in her 80's that has run the show for 40 years - and finally decided to say its time to retire. (I'm just making all of this up -- I really have no idea how its run.)

Yes -- I agree -- I hope some one or some group comes along to take over the job of running the event. Its always a highlight of the start of Summer.

I think the only qualifications you need are awesome organizing skills and to be (or become) a member of Holy Rosary Parish.. which means you have to be Catholic of course. Do you fit those prereqs?

While talking about things going on in the SE part of downtown -- good things are continuing. The expansion of the Mexican Tortas place is open and looks great. The brick walled interior looks real nice as you ride or walk by along Virginia Avenue and there seemed to be decent crowds there last night for a Tuesday. (Although it probably only holds about 35 people.)

Down in Fountain Square the new Po-boy sandwich place is also coming along very well. Its just south of the Brass Ring and has the same patio set-up (as the Brass Ring) fronting Shelby Street. They've just recently added a chimney and new siding - which has a weathered, "southern food shack" look to it. I've been kind of surprised by this project. I wasn't expecting a whole lot - but it is really looking like it'll be a cool new spot.

Also -- the townhomes (I think that's what is going in) fronting Shelby right next to the Fountain Square Brewing Company are going up now. Good to see the progress continuing south along Shelby. There are several more buildings further to the south with "for sale" or "for lease" signs in front of them that could be the next spaces to be filled.

One disappointing thing in Fountain Square though is the lack of any progress on the former Deans's Vino place that is supposed to be the new live music club called the Pioneer. Nothing seems to have changed with that place over the past six months or so since they got their zoning variance approved.

Moochie: "I think the only qualifications you need are awesome organizing skills and to be (or become) a member of Holy Rosary Parish.. which means you have to be Catholic of course. Do you fit those prereqs?"

Nope -- Unfortunately I probably don't fit real well with the job prerequisities (and have another full time job). I do love good Italian food though. I'll mention it to someone I know though that is working on getting into the event planning / management field. This might be a good opportunity for him to get a start. He seems to have a personality that would fit in well with running a big, fun event like that --- and he looks kind of Italian, if that makes any difference -- kind of like Chef Boy-ar-dee. :)

WHAT??? Italian Fest is HANDS DOWN part of the best summer weekend in Indy! I look forward to it every year.

:(

WHAT??? Italian Fest is HANDS DOWN part of the best summer weekend in Indy! I look forward to it every year.

:(

Sorry to hear that Italian Fest was cancelled there.

You guys have an alternative. Check out Festa Italiana on the Lake Michigan Lakefront in Milwaukee, the largest Italian-American festival in the US! Festa Italiana runs from July 19 to July 22, 2012.

http://www.festaitaliana.com

Delayed, AGAIN!!! Sorry, but this is just becoming one big pile of BS.

http://www.ibj.com/decision-on-canal-residential-project-delayed-again/PARAMS/article/33378

Good news about ExacTarget going public this morning:

ExactTarget soars in trading debut after initial public offering

ExactTarget Inc., the e-mail marketing company that counts Microsoft Corp. and Groupon Inc. as customers, gained as much as 29 percent in its trading debut Thursday morning after pricing its initial public offering above the range.

The stock surged 25 percent, to $23.72 a share, about an hour after the opening bell, then reached $24.60 by early afternoon.

ExactTarget, based in Indianapolis, raised $161.5 million by selling 8.5 million shares at $19 apiece Wednesday after initially offering them for $15 to $17 each, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

Company CEO Scott Dorsey, who kicked off trading Thursday morning by ringing the bell at the New York Stock Exchange, said the company’s strong opening is a testament to the company he helped build.

“It feels great,” Dorsey said about going public. “It’s a little bit surreal, to be honest. I’m still floating a couple feet off the ground.”

Story from the IBJ:

http://www.ibj.com/exacttarget-soars-in-trading-debut-after-initial-public-offering-/PARAMS/article/33381

Good news for biking on the Monon Trail:

Monon Trail hours remain extended

The Monon Trail will continue to open earlier in the morning and close later at night, at least until June. Indy Parks decided to extend a trial period that began last fall allowing for activity from 5 a.m. to 9 p.m. The popular trail is normally open from dawn to dusk, but IndyParks decided to extend the hours during winter months to accommodate commuters who faced fines for using the trail in the dark. February traffic during the new hours was double that of February 2011.

Sorry to hear that Italian Fest was cancelled there.

You guys have an alternative. Check out Festa Italiana on the Lake Michigan Lakefront in Milwaukee, the largest Italian-American festival in the US! Festa Italiana runs from July 19 to July 22, 2012.

http://www.festaitaliana.com

just FYI if you havent atleast Visited Indianapolis plz dont offer opinions on this thread..................

Also no need to advertise other events cause im sure the fine people on this forum have heard of Google :bash:

I don't think that the delay of the student housing thing will effect the design. However I wish that it would. Would be nice to see another design with a different look.

DowntownIndianapolis: Relax. Where do you get your crazy ideas? First -- there's no indication the poster from Milwaukee has never been to Indianapolis. Secondly -- even if he hasn't been to Indianapolis - it didn't hurt anything to mention a related event in Milwaukee, similar to what was being discussed on our forum. If you don't want to travel to Milwaukee -- simply don't. With your blog name, you're definitely representing Indianapolis whenever (and wherever) you post. Please try to show a little class so you don't embarass our city. Thanks.

DowntownIndianapolis: Relax. Where do you get your crazy ideas? First -- there's no indication the poster from Milwaukee has never been to Indianapolis. Secondly -- even if he hasn't been to Indianapolis - it didn't hurt anything to mention a related event in Milwaukee, similar to what was being discussed on our forum. If you don't want to travel to Milwaukee -- simply don't. With your blog name, you're definitely representing Indianapolis whenever (and wherever) you post. Please try to show a little class so you don't embarass our city. Thanks.

His posting history proves my point.
Anyway then if he wants to advertise Milwaukee thats fine :) well advertise Indianapolis in other forums. It Cuts both ways.

The canal proposal does need a re-design for certain, can't they approve the project with the proviso of a re-design? However, I'm getting the impression that certain players in the area are resistant to these out of town developers muscling in on "their" territory. Furthermore, I get I get the impression there is a feeling of entitlement from residents of the canal area who seem to feel it is their personal property. They need to be reminded that the canal is a public asset and not a private bicycle, running and work-out area. Although I am a strong advocate for development in the downtown area I am an equally strong opponent to its suburbanization.

His posting history proves my point.
Anyway then if he wants to advertise Milwaukee thats fine :) well advertise Indianapolis in other forums. It Cuts both ways.

DI, Milwaukee is a great city. I don't think there's reason for any cutting. It's always great to learn about cool stuff going on in other cities.

I passed through Fountain Square tonight and noticed that removal of the sidewalk on the east end of the square had began. It looks like all the enlarged bump outs around Shelby Street are now underway. I knew that Shelby looked narrow in the site plan prints that were posted last year, but seeing the curb cuts, its going to be REALLY narrow through there.

Im looking forward to seeing the sidewalk work all completed.

Also, the Hinge is looking pretty impressive! Nice to see it topped out and brickwork commencing.

Also cruised by the Trailside on Mass Ave. There is a significant amount of brickwork now up on the side of the building.
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7222/7007537045_0e366360bd_z.jpg

Word on the street is that Italian fest was cancelled because there is a new priest at holy rosary who decided he needed more control... DP, the organizer who has done great things for the neighborhood decided that the conflicts were too much and bowed out. The new priest decided that he couldn't do it and cancelled the event. It's just the new priest not learning about the neighborhood and community before trying to change things. Quite a costly mistake to lose such a big fundraising event in a personal power struggle.

Word on the street is that Italian fest was cancelled because there is a new priest at holy rosary who decided he needed more control... DP, the organizer who has done great things for the neighborhood decided that the conflicts were too much and bowed out. The new priest decided that he couldn't do it and cancelled the event. It's just the new priest not learning about the neighborhood and community before trying to change things. Quite a costly mistake to lose such a big fundraising event in a personal power struggle.

I am not sure about the "word on the street," but the official report is that the longtime organizer, David Page, who is now 71, has said he simply does not have the physical health or energy to continue organizing the event, and his daughter also told Fox News the same thing.

In any event, I think rather than speculating about the reason for this year's cancellation of the festival, if people feel that passionately about the festival, then they should contact Holy Rosary parish and offer to volunteer to help organize and run the event. If enough people offered to help out, then I am sure the festival would be able to occur, at least in some form. And, I doubt the parish would turn away willing volunteers, whether or not they happen to be Catholic.

Its great to see progress being made on the old vacant church sitting at the SW corner of College and North Street. Tuck pointing is under way. It is to be the new offices for an architecure firm. Good to see a formerly empty building put back to good use.

I am not sure about the "word on the street," but the official report is that the longtime organizer, David Page, who is now 71, has said he simply does not have the physical health or energy to continue organizing the event, and his daughter also told Fox News the same thing.
.

Simply giving everyone here the buzz from the neighborhood. That's why I started by saying "word in the street" meaning these people know the story better than the media, but it might not be completely accurate... Take it for what it is and accept or reject.

Last week I had posted about Fortune 500 companies based in Indianapolis and Indiana. In one of the posts I had mused about Berry Plastics being a private company that had possibly gone public. It turns out it is still a private company however, has announced it will be going public. With current revenues of $4.4 billion Berry Plastics could join the small but growing batch of Fortune 500 companies based in the state.

http://www.ibj.com/state-s-largest-private-company-plans-to-go-public/PARAMS/article/33430

Considering the activities of the Cathlic Church of late I'll accept the word on the street.

Last night while driving south from Fountain Square along Shelby Street I noticed that another new restaurant looks like it will be joining the strip along the east side of the street. The next building (south of the Brass Ring and the Po Boy Sandwich place) now has a sign up with the name of what appears to be some new (Mexican possibly) restaurant.

Also -- it looks like the formerly vacant space in between the Brass Ring and the Po Boy place now has two new bocce courts under construction. Pretty cool.

Word on the street is that Italian fest was cancelled because there is a new priest at holy rosary who decided he needed more control... DP, the organizer who has done great things for the neighborhood decided that the conflicts were too much and bowed out. The new priest decided that he couldn't do it and cancelled the event. It's just the new priest not learning about the neighborhood and community before trying to change things. Quite a costly mistake to lose such a big fundraising event in a personal power struggle.

A five minute Google search would reveal that while Fr. Magiera is new to his role as parish administrator, has had some association with Holy Rosary since at least 2007. It seems unlikely that he was unfamiliar with the neighborhood and/or community when he took charge of the parish. That's the problem with spreading gossip with no basis for knowledge of its truth or falsity.

Then ignore it. I never made a claim of credibility and actually stated the opposite. I guess none of us should ever share any kind of information from any non academic and fact checked source.

Sorry, but knowing what's going on ground level is something this forum is about. We are a rumor mill, we all know it, and approach comments with skepticism. I guess next time I know something that isn't in a press release I will just keep it to myself. Sheesh.

Last night while driving south from Fountain Square along Shelby Street I noticed that another new restaurant looks like it will be joining the strip along the east side of the street. The next building (south of the Brass Ring and the Po Boy Sandwich place) now has a sign up with the name of what appears to be some new (Mexican possibly) restaurant.

Also -- it looks like the formerly vacant space in between the Brass Ring and the Po Boy place now has two new bocce courts under construction. Pretty cool.

Do you know what's up with the new buildings going up right across the street in front of the Fountain Square Brewery?

I can't remember reading anything about them anywhere.

As far as the new buildings going up in front of the Fountain Sq. brewery, I asked about that a few weeks ago in this thread. I was just digging around trying to locate that post - but couldn't find it. Someone answered my question and said it was going to be three residences. I don't remember any other details.

From the looks of the project, it looks like it could be three townhouse-type units. I do wonder if there will be any first floor retail -- because that is such a commercial stretch. I don't know much more about it -- but I remember a link was provided to a page from some type of community development funding program listing a certain amount of funds going to the project and a little bit of a project description. Anyone know any additional details -- or want to correct any information that I may have stated that is incorrect?

DI, Milwaukee is a great city. I don't think there's reason for any cutting. It's always great to learn about cool stuff going on in other cities.

yes it is.
However this is the Indianapolis Development News.
If we want to have a chat about other cities then we should make another thread.

Simply giving everyone here the buzz from the neighborhood. That's why I started by saying "word in the street" meaning these people know the story better than the media, but it might not be completely accurate... Take it for what it is and accept or reject.

I don't have any affiliation with Holy Rosary, nor with the Catholic Church, nor with any church.

However, I would take the word of the people involved in the matter over so-called "word on the street" (especially when it is from unnamed sources). David Page allowed his daughter to comment for him to the media, and she said her dad didn't have the health and stamina to continue organizing the festival. Either she is lying (and indirectly so is Mr. Page by allowing his daughter to lie on his behalf) or she is telling the truth.

Absent some sort of evidence as to why I should not believe Mr. Page's daughter, then I will take her at her word and assume she is telling the truth.

That's all. I am not accusing you of doing something horrible, but I just don't think rumors should be spread unless there is some clear evidence to support them (in which case, they are not really rumors).

I would take the word of the people involved in the matter over so-called "word on the street").

A lot of the people I am hearing this from are directly involved. They just are not the two parties at the heart of it. Politics come into play with press releases. Of course they aren't going to make a stink about the organization they support... Believe what you want, but I hope you don't think media releases always get you the real story. (Not to say that my interactions will get you te real story either!) Its just something to think about. I have heard it from people involved and people I don't really know around the area. Not from one, and not from many in the same circle, but enough from all around that I thought I should mention it.

Believe what you want. I don't know what to believe but we all only know half of the story. I have met David and it doesnt seem like the way he would leave his legacy.

BTW, I'm done with this. I have made my point. Take it or leave it. Let's move on to something with substance.

Its great to see progress being made on the old vacant church sitting at the SW corner of College and North Street. Tuck pointing is under way. It is to be the new offices for an architecure firm. Good to see a formerly empty building put back to good use.

my building is two doors west and we are thrilled!!! Further, with Brugge taking the building at the NW corner of Park & North, and the poposal slated for start this summer on the long vacant lot at Michigan and College - that area is boomig

Sounds to me like Eddie had some well-sourced perspectives on the story. Clearly of the caveat emptor variety, but worth sharing. If you've ever had personal knowledge of a story that was featured in the newspaper, you know the paper often doesn't get it right and often leaves out important information. If you relied only on the Star for info, you'd know very little about what's going on in Indy.

BTW: Newspapers don't employ fact checkers.

Part of my skepticism about any report that starts with "word on the street is..." is very similar to Aaron's comment: rumormongers and storytellers don't fact-check either.

We all played "the telephone game" in grade school and understand the distortion and noise that creeps into storytelling. (I hope.)

Yes, there is always more to the story. There is always the public face and the private face. Everyone always has their own take on things. Stir all this up and it amounts to this: none of it really changes the one fact of the matter. The organizer isn't organizing this year.

Church/parish politics are generally not things of fact or reason. They are matters of faith and passion and human weakness, seldom of forgiveness and grace. They are usually opaque to non-members and non-believers...and sometimes even to members and believers. (One need only count the number of different Christian denominations for hard evidence of this. Every one started with a disagreement over belief, practice, or leadership.)

Well, its been my personal experience that if you hear the same or similar story from disparate individuals, there tends to be a nugget of truth in there. Furthermore, it seems our local media tends to avoid and even run from controversy rather than investigate it.

As far as the new buildings going up in front of the Fountain Sq. brewery, I asked about that a few weeks ago in this thread. I was just digging around trying to locate that post - but couldn't find it. Someone answered my question and said it was going to be three residences. I don't remember any other details.

From the looks of the project, it looks like it could be three townhouse-type units. I do wonder if there will be any first floor retail -- because that is such a commercial stretch. I don't know much more about it -- but I remember a link was provided to a page from some type of community development funding program listing a certain amount of funds going to the project and a little bit of a project description. Anyone know any additional details -- or want to correct any information that I may have stated that is incorrect?

That's about all there is to it. Three rental townhouses developed by SEND, financed by HUD Neighborhood Stabilization Program funding. No commercial. It's indicated on Page 100 of this report: http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/Community/Documents/NSP%20files/NSP%20QPR%204Q%202011.pdf

Previous plans called for a three-story mixed-use building, with HUD funds going into the 16 apartments, as described on Page 65 of this report, but something with that plan didn't materialize in time to meet a deadline of the NSP program, so the current plan was put in its place:
http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/Community/Documents/CD/NSP%20QPR%201Q%202010.pdf

As far as the new buildings going up in front of the Fountain Sq. brewery, I asked about that a few weeks ago in this thread. I was just digging around trying to locate that post - but couldn't find it. Someone answered my question and said it was going to be three residences. I don't remember any other details.

From the looks of the project, it looks like it could be three townhouse-type units. I do wonder if there will be any first floor retail -- because that is such a commercial stretch. I don't know much more about it -- but I remember a link was provided to a page from some type of community development funding program listing a certain amount of funds going to the project and a little bit of a project description. Anyone know any additional details -- or want to correct any information that I may have stated that is incorrect?

Thanks. That's a waste of a prime lot if it is only 3 homes. Fountain Square will never really take off until we (surprise surprise) get some higher density housing around the strip. That would've been a good spot for a 4-story mixed use. Oh well.

Thanks. That's a waste of a prime lot if it is only 3 homes. Fountain Square will never really take off until we (surprise surprise) get some higher density housing around the strip. That would've been a good spot for a 4-story mixed use. Oh well.

Yeah, it's definitely 3 townhome units being developed by SEND. I agree, it's not the best location for this type of development. It would have been much more appropriate to include some commercial on the first floor. I think these units are going to feel a little weird in this location, when all is said and done.

Are we talking about the former gas/service station lot in Fountain Square across from Siam Sq? That lot is PRIME development

^^ No -- the three townhomes are about a block and a half south of the fountain in Fountain Square along S. Shelby Street. Its just south of Bud's supermarket and next to the Fountain Square brewery.

The vacant former gas station / garage - across from Siam Square is definitely a prime spot for another 3 - 4 story apartment building with first floor retail.

^^

Maaaaan...if the former service/gas station is the same one i'm thinking about, i agree that it's prime space - but i pray someone will move the old blue-clad building that sits off the street - could be such a cool place (i think of Locally Grown Gardens in sobro, or a sleek diner or something) tucked between larger bldgs or taking a small vacant corner lot. i have a pic from last summer i'll post if i can find it.

There are several vacant or unused building sites in / near Fountain Square with good potential to be turned into some type of new development. There are a few of those abandoned gas station / maintenance garage type buildings (circa 1940's style) along Virginia and Shelby streets. They could either be converted into some type of retro diner / restaurant or some other type of commercial use or be moved and the sites turned into a mixed use residential / commercial developments. There are also a few used car lots which it seems would be much more appropriate if the land were sold and the site turned into residential / mixed uses as well.

We went to Siam Sq wknd before last and parked on the side street next to that gas station lot and discussed all of the possibilities for that space! Fountain Sq/Fletcher Place has finally - after years and years of saying it would - hit its stride! The amount of development taking place is so nice to see and the amount of restaurants and retail has been very encouraging! I still believe that the Cultural Trail should have started their 1st as it was the neighborhood that would have benefited the most from it - but, it's happening now, so I'll take it.

As for that lot, I see a proposal similar to the two mixed-use projects in Fletcher Place (the U/C one and the proposal for the former BMV Building) happening there. I would love a building the size of the main commercial structure next to the fountain proposed as that height could really take advantage of some of the best skyline views in the City. When we were riding our bike along Virginia the other day, I couldn't help but notice that the project that is currently U/C on Virginia really doesn't take advantage of the views. There didn't seem to be any balconies coming of the north or west facades.

Finally, and I know these things happen more organically, but there is already a start - why don't the owners of Milano Inn, Iaria's, Holy Rosary Church and the neighborhood actively start promoting that area around South & College Streets as Indy' "Little Italy?" Start by painting the Italian flag/Colors on utility poles, perhaps some strategic signage - work to encourage more Italian-owned business eateries to pop up there. The area already hosts(ed) Italian Fest for decades and it is consistently one of the top-draw festivals in the summer, there is small, but active Italian presence and some simple branding and ornementation could go a very long way making that area much more akin to other "Little Italy's" in the region.

The law school just sent me this... FYI. I won't be able to make it though.

See announcement below from Dean MacDougall.
*
This Wednesday, March 28, the IU President’s office will be hosting a ceremony in the atrium.* It is related to the groundbreaking for the new Science and Engineering Lab Building here on campus.* There will be several university dignitaries in attendance. Those participating will gather at approximately 1:45, with the ceremony itself starting at 2:00 pm.* It will last for approximately one hour and will be followed by a short reception. *Please let me know if you have any questions.* Thanks very much.
*
Jonna Kane MacDougall, J.D.
Assistant Dean
Office of External Affairs and Alumni Relations
IU Robert H. McKinney School of Law
530 West New York Street
Indianapolis, IN 46202
indylaw.indiana.edu
*

Anyone have a clue on what's going on with Indy's Bikeshare? RFP due in late January, it sure seems like something should have been announced or blogged by now... My usual suspects are clueless.

All I've seen in print or online in any official capacity is the RFP on indy.gov.. Surely someone besides myself here has some inside info.

http://www.in.gov/dot/div/legal/rfp/LPARFP/Archive/2011/December/Indy%20RFP%20Bike%20Share%2012%2014%202011.pdf

I was out today biking around and got some pictures with my phone. Apologize they are not the best quality, but does give a great insight to all the new construction going on! Maybe next time I can take my actual camera, instead of only having the iPhone handy!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7264/7019188805_0583d27ecb_b.jpg
The Hinge

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7125/7019189561_fd9710e31f_b.jpg
CityWay from the Virginia Avenue Garage

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7053/6873085360_d674c2aa9a_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7089/7019191769_ffc498e556_b.jpg
City skyline from Virginia Avenue garage (Never realized this is such a great view!)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7248/6873087252_b5d1e28337_b.jpg
The Avenue is now mostly completed. Retail spaces are starting to fill in too. Mo's, Which Which, and Sprint all have signs up.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7274/7019194141_08bcc040f1_b.jpg
Campus Apartments under renovation.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7038/6873089748_8ee011e17d_b.jpg
City view from the garage. Could guess the apartments on the fifth floor have some great views. Minus the jungle of power lines that would be great to see buried.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7209/7019196181_fc61fe8ff7_b.jpg
The Braxton at Lugar Tower looks to be a huge improvement for the area. There is a leasing center across Fort Wayne Ave. now open.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7190/7019196591_bbe2298bfc_b.jpg
Main entrance into Lugar Tower.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7203/6873091642_b3804221b3_b.jpg
1010 Central new apartment building and renovations going on in the older section

Thanks for that photo rundown! Nice.

Not a problem! Actually glad I've started engaging in the thread. Reading from the suburbs doesn't really have the same effect as when you are down in the middle of everything. You start to really see all the great small spaces around that you never knew of since you'll drive by and don't get to stop and really experience the true city setting.

I've come to realize that Indy has some true potential with the residents that live here. Best part is, we all have a much higher chance of running with the ground work that has already been set. Can't wait till the fall when most of these are on their final stages!

A lot of the people I am hearing this from are directly involved. They just are not the two parties at the heart of it. Politics come into play with press releases. Of course they aren't going to make a stink about the organization they support... Believe what you want, but I hope you don't think media releases always get you the real story. (Not to say that my interactions will get you te real story either!) Its just something to think about. I have heard it from people involved and people I don't really know around the area. Not from one, and not from many in the same circle, but enough from all around that I thought I should mention it.

Believe what you want. I don't know what to believe but we all only know half of the story. I have met David and it doesnt seem like the way he would leave his legacy.

Eddie, I am sure David is a nice guy. But, you are calling him and his daughter liars. He is not a celebrity or a public official, so there is no reason for either he or his daughter to make any statement to the media. I doubt the press hounded him for a comment. Festivals and events are canceled all the time for one reason or another, and I am sure the local news accepted whatever statement the pastor chose to make. Also, one can avoid badmouthing without resorting to lying. Since David's daughter did make a brief media comment, then I have to believe it was simply to convey her dad's gratitude for being able to run the event for so many years and to respond to the community's disappointment about the festival's cancellation.

And, no, I do not take every press release at face value. But, press releases are issued by political spin-doctors, whereas this was a simple and direct statement by an ordinary person. In these sort of situations, absent some reason to believe otherwise, I take what people say at face value.

That's all.

BWBeaver --- Thanks very much for the great round-up of photos. I'm sure the folks following indy development from out of town and the folks who don't get downtown as much appreciate it a lot. Like you said above, by Fall, many of those projects will be finished or in the final stages of construction. The cool thing is that there should be several new downtown projects underway by that time as well --- The Axis, The Mozza, the Bush Stadium apartments, hopefully Milhaus' project at the former Bank One Ops Center, maybe North Lockerbie at College and Michigan and maybe a few more. Looks good.

BWBeaver --- Thanks very much for the great round-up of photos. I'm sure the folks following indy development from out of town and the folks who don't get downtown as much appreciate it a lot. Like you said above, by Fall, many of those projects will be finished or in the final stages of construction. The cool thing is that there should be several new downtown projects underway by that time as well --- The Axis, The Mozza, the Bush Stadium apartments, hopefully Milhaus' project at the former Bank One Ops Center, maybe North Lockerbie at College and Michigan and maybe a few more. Looks good.

Beaver I am one of those people Garfield mentions being out of town and thank you very much!!

Anyone have a clue on what's going on with Indy's Bikeshare? RFP due in late January, it sure seems like something should have been announced or blogged by now... My usual suspects are clueless.

All I've seen in print or online in any official capacity is the RFP on indy.gov.. Surely someone besides myself here has some inside info.

http://www.in.gov/dot/div/legal/rfp/LPARFP/Archive/2011/December/Indy%20RFP%20Bike%20Share%2012%2014%202011.pdf

I keep inquiring to my usual source and have gotten a little bit of information, but I really don't have any definitive information on where things are at the moment.

I went to Which Which the other weekend. As of now, they have zero bike parking on the exterior space of the development. I was shocked and disappointed.

^^

Maaaaan...if the former service/gas station is the same one i'm thinking about, i agree that it's prime space - but i pray someone will move the old blue-clad building that sits off the street - could be such a cool place (i think of Locally Grown Gardens in sobro, or a sleek diner or something) tucked between larger bldgs or taking a small vacant corner lot. i have a pic from last summer i'll post if i can find it.

I love that building and hope it's saved as well. I think it would be cool to integrate it into NINEbark's plan for that area. (see below)

We went to Siam Sq wknd before last and parked on the side street next to that gas station lot and discussed all of the possibilities for that space! Fountain Sq/Fletcher Place has finally - after years and years of saying it would - hit its stride! The amount of development taking place is so nice to see and the amount of restaurants and retail has been very encouraging! I still believe that the Cultural Trail should have started their 1st as it was the neighborhood that would have benefited the most from it - but, it's happening now, so I'll take it.

As for that lot, I see a proposal similar to the two mixed-use projects in Fletcher Place (the U/C one and the proposal for the former BMV Building) happening there. I would love a building the size of the main commercial structure next to the fountain proposed as that height could really take advantage of some of the best skyline views in the City. When we were riding our bike along Virginia the other day, I couldn't help but notice that the project that is currently U/C on Virginia really doesn't take advantage of the views. There didn't seem to be any balconies coming of the north or west facades.

Finally, and I know these things happen more organically, but there is already a start - why don't the owners of Milano Inn, Iaria's, Holy Rosary Church and the neighborhood actively start promoting that area around South & College Streets as Indy' "Little Italy?" Start by painting the Italian flag/Colors on utility poles, perhaps some strategic signage - work to encourage more Italian-owned business eateries to pop up there. The area already hosts(ed) Italian Fest for decades and it is consistently one of the top-draw festivals in the summer, there is small, but active Italian presence and some simple branding and ornementation could go a very long way making that area much more akin to other "Little Italy's" in the region.

NINEbark proposed a sweet idea for the space a couple of years ago that I hope happens. It involves opening up the space to allow a vista of the church facade from Virginia Ave.

NINEbark rendering:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7091/7020811915_0048533360_o.png

I'd like to push their idea a little further by making the buildings a little bigger and framing the plaza with more residential. It would be great to have some balconies overlooking the fountain. Maybe 3 stories high for both buildings. No higher than the Murphy and definitely shorter than the church bell tower. It could also be cool to rehab the service station and have it jut out into the plaza. It could be very cool. Also, I'd save as much of Skip's Market and the other buildings as possible. But I think creating height along Virginia and the new plaza would be important, so it could end up being a facadectomy. :)

I also think it would be cool to hire a significant internationally-known architect to design the fountain. Make it very contemporary and from limestone. Maybe something the scale and impact of the IMA's fountain.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7091/7020813181_9c9766017c_b.jpg

I think this is the same site that everyone is talking about: IHPC should be considering a case for 1015 Virginia next week. It was on the docket last month with a request to continue by the applicant. The only note is "Preliminary Review for demolition and new construction of a commercial structure with variances and rezoning."

The approval of the tax credits for this project should get another 61 apartments and 5,000 sq feet of retail started on this key block in the middle of the Mass Avenue District. Another 83 units may be built on an adjacent portion of the block coinciding with a much larger project that could go in across the street on the site of the current IFD station.


Mass Ave project surrounding Barton Tower gets state OK

The redevelopment of a key stretch of Massachusetts Avenue is expected to commence in the fall now that developers have won approval to sell tax credits to finance the project.

A partnership of Flaherty & Collins Properties and Insight Development Corp. earlier this month was awarded rental housing tax credits by the state that will be sold to finance construction of a 61-unit, $11.5 million apartment project at 555 Massachusetts Ave. The project is to include 5,000 square feet of retail space facing Massachusetts.

The site is now green space and parking that wraps around the Barton Tower apartments, a 21-story concrete structure built in 1967 that is operated by the Indianapolis Housing Agency.

The project would occupy only about 40 percent of the developable land surrounding Barton Tower. The balance of the site is slated to be developed with an additional 83 market-rate apartments and another 10,000 square feet of retail space, said Bruce Baird, president of Insight Development, a not-for-profit developer affiliated with the housing agency.

Financing for the market-rate portion isn’t in place, Baird said, because the development team is waiting to see if it can secure financing in conjunction with a much larger project it hopes to build across Massachusetts on a half block now occupied by Indianapolis Fire Department headquarters, IFD Station No. 7 and the firefighters’ credit union.

Additional details here:

http://www.ibj.com/rew-lead-story---template/PARAMS/article/33474

I was coming over to post about that. Glad to see it finally getting the green light!

As of today my chart of Center Township apartment units looks like this:

798 Completed Since 2010 (9 projects)
1134 Currently Under Construction (11 projects)
1199 Proposed and Approved (7 projects)
838 Proposed and Not Yet Approved (7 projects)
------
3969 total units

I think this is the same site that everyone is talking about: IHPC should be considering a case for 1015 Virginia next week. It was on the docket last month with a request to continue by the applicant. The only note is "Preliminary Review for demolition and new construction of a commercial structure with variances and rezoning."

Speak of the devil!

I fear it will just be another used-car lot.

I'm not optimistic it will be a best use scenario by any means.

[QUOTE=bwbeaver;89844368]I was out today biking around and got some pictures with my phone. Apologize they are not the best quality, but does give a great insight to all the new construction going on! Maybe next time I can take my actual camera, instead of only having the iPhone handy!

Excellent Pics: For some of us remote folk, I have been anticipating seeing pics like this. This is really neat to see. This sounds funny but Indianapolis is starting to resemble Austin, TX quite a bit with this type of architecture and residential development downtown. Austin has many of these going up.

What was the timeline for the Axis (hope I have it right) development NW of One America? I know they need to start and have the parking garage done first. When is that slated to begin? Before you know it we will have 8 to 10 locations that resemble the Cosmopolitan style architecture around downtown.

Also what ever happened to the Paramount Tower that started at 16 floors and then got reduced to 6 or 7. Wasn't it around Michigan and Illinois at one time?

I remember reading that the Axis was supposed to get started this Summer. You'd think the developer would need to complete the parking garage for One America first however - before starting to build the Axis project on One America's other, one square block parking lot. We'll see.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7274/7019194141_08bcc040f1_b.jpg
Campus Apartments under renovation.
I really wish this complex had just been torn down and replaced. The buildings are ugly, the layout is suburban and there was a real opportunity for Van Rooy to enhance the 10th St. corridor in concert with The Avenue coming to completion.

Van Rooy actually proposed a project that would have replaced both Campus Apartments and the YMCA but lost out to Buckingham's proposal. Having lost, they just doubled down on this crappy complex and decided to renovate it from Section 8 to student housing beater apartments.

NINEbark proposed a sweet idea for the space a couple of years ago that I hope happens. It involves opening up the space to allow a vista of the church facade from Virginia Ave.

I'd like to push their idea a little further by making the buildings a little bigger and framing the plaza with more residential. It would be great to have some balconies overlooking the fountain. Maybe 3 stories high for both buildings. No higher than the Murphy and definitely shorter than the church bell tower. It could also be cool to rehab the service station and have it jut out into the plaza. It could be very cool. Also, I'd save as much of Skip's Market and the other buildings as possible. But I think creating height along Virginia and the new plaza would be important, so it could end up being a facadectomy. :)

I also think it would be cool to hire a significant internationally-known architect to design the fountain. Make it very contemporary and from limestone. Maybe something the scale and impact of the IMA's fountain.

Ablerock - love those ideas! glad you posted them, now that's all i'll be able to think of when i'm in that area - thanks :) i wish sightlines/vistas/etc. were more highly regarded with developments here...

Eddie, I am sure David is a nice guy. But, you are calling him and his daughter liars. He is not a celebrity or a public official, so there is no reason for either he or his daughter to make any statement to the media. I doubt the press hounded him for a comment. Festivals and events are canceled all the time for one reason or another, and I am sure the local news accepted whatever statement the pastor chose to make. Also, one can avoid badmouthing without resorting to lying. Since David's daughter did make a brief media comment, then I have to believe it was simply to convey her dad's gratitude for being able to run the event for so many years and to respond to the community's disappointment about the festival's cancellation.

And, no, I do not take every press release at face value. But, press releases are issued by political spin-doctors, whereas this was a simple and direct statement by an ordinary person. In these sort of situations, absent some reason to believe otherwise, I take what people say at face value.

That's all.

I'm really puzzled at the extreme negative reaction to what are garden variety rumors. When the media asked for a comment about an unfortunately do you a) take the high road or b) give your worst emotional response? It doesn't mean you are calling someone a "liar" if you suggest that they are merely being polite in what they say. Classy people generally don't like to air dirty laundry in the papers. I'm not saying what's true one way or the other because I don't know. But I generally accept that if someone on this board tells me they heard something from a source that's semi-believable, they aren't lying.

I agree Aaron, seems some people here can't let it go.

Concerning Indiana based corporations it would seem the paradigm has shifted over the past few years. Instead of being acquisition targets they have become acquirers. Here is the latest example:

http://www.ibj.com/wabash-national-shares-rise-on--360m-deal/PARAMS/article/33490

For Todd Curry, the new gas stations and fast food restaurants that have popped up near his Fishers insurance office are signals of continuing growth in Hamilton County.

So are the expansive and heavily traveled areas such as 146th Street and Hazel Dell Parkway in Carmel, an intersection that he remembers used to have a single stop sign.

"(Back in the 1990s), Carmel was a slow-growing community," said Curry, who's been a Carmel resident since 1997. "There were a lot of undeveloped farms, land that has since turned into developments of homes and businesses."

A new study by the Indiana University Kelley School of Business predicts that sort of growth will propel Hamilton County -- the fastest-growing county in the state -- to double in size to 548,000 residents by 2050. Statewide, the study forecasts that Indiana's population will climb from 6.5 million to 7.5 million.

Projections for the Indianapolis metro area, with 700,000 more residents, will account for most of the state's growth over the next 40 years. By 2050, about one in three Hoosiers will live in the area, the study found.

If the projections hold true, Hamilton County will become the state's second-largest county, surpassing Lake and Allen.

Matt Kinghorn, demographer for the Indiana Business Research Center at the Kelley School, said the growth is a continuation of an ongoing trend.

"The county has doubled in size in the past 20 years," Kinghorn said. "This will certainly have a large impact on land use, transportation, planning, demands for schools and all types of public facilities."

Community leaders and local business owners say the effects of the county's population growth are already happening, with road and other infrastructure improvements, office branches and retail stores that continue to flourish.

Fishers' population climbed from about 13,000 residents in the early 1990s to nearly 80,000 in 2010. As a result, the former bedroom community has more than 200 subdivisions, said Wes Bucher, who retired in December as Fishers' planning director and oversaw the rapid growth of the 1990s and 2000s.

In Carmel, corporate businesses found in Downtown Indianapolis now have a presence in the suburb, said Mo Merhoff, president of the Carmel Chamber of Commerce. She cited law firms such as Faegre Baker Daniels LLP and Krieg DeVault LLP as examples.

"They follow clientele and business opportunities," Merhoff said.

Bucher and Merhoff, however, agree that they don't expect Fishers or Carmel residents to abandon Downtown Indianapolis even with the suburban growth.

"I think that Downtown Indianapolis is a core for the whole Indianapolis area and it will continue to be a draw for jobs, for government center, for dining and for major sports activities," Bucher said. "The benefit of living in Fishers is the proximity to Indianapolis and everything it offers."

Curry, the insurance agency owner, said that with the population and traffic growing, he'd like to see one last improvement happen in Hamilton County: "a mass transit system that will connect Hamilton County to Indianapolis."

Glad to know people in the suburbs are starting to catch on!

www.indystar.com

Speaking of Mass Transit, reverse commute buses and local circulators start running next week in Fishers & carmel
http://www.indystar.com/article/20120328/BUSINESS/203280359/Indy-Express-shuttles-deliver-workers-jobs-Fishers-Carmel?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

Kind of neat to see this.

I feel the Indianapolis Metro will continue to grow at roughly its current average rate of 25-30,000 per anum. This would equate to a 1-1.2 million increase by 2050. Naturally, this would also influence the statewide total. I have always found that projections for the state have been overly cautious in the past.

Here is a link to the entire data set. I just wish they had done one of total population. These tables give growth over five year increments.

http://www.stats.indiana.edu/topic/projections.asp

Nice new proposal from Blackline on Cornell Avenue in Broad Ripple:

http://www.urbanindy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/427968_323489324381278_132163510180528_916373_1416039600_n.jpg

http://www.urbanindy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/399010_323488517714692_132163510180528_916372_674604797_n.jpg

http://www.urbanindy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/529300_323486861048191_132163510180528_916371_1502807585_n.jpg

I'm really puzzled at the extreme negative reaction to what are garden variety rumors. When the media asked for a comment about an unfortunately do you a) take the high road or b) give your worst emotional response? It doesn't mean you are calling someone a "liar" if you suggest that they are merely being polite in what they say. Classy people generally don't like to air dirty laundry in the papers. I'm not saying what's true one way or the other because I don't know. But I generally accept that if someone on this board tells me they heard something from a source that's semi-believable, they aren't lying.

Arenn, I guess we have different ideas about what "extreme negative" means...

David Page, by all accounts, is very ill. In another news report the pastor of the church mentioned how David had been in a hospital bed for a year. David asked his daughter to make a quick statement to the news that he did not have the energy or health to continue leading the Italian Fest. Why does there have to be some sort of conspiracy behind the scenes? I am sure there are some gossips in the parish (again, I don't go to the church, or to any church) who think the pastor "drove David out," but I don't know why that is worth repeating?

I made the simple statement that we had the man's own words, as conveyed by his daughter, so why should we believe some rumors by unidentified people? If Eddie truly heard the rumors from a credible source(s), then he could at least identify the general source and more details, while keeping the actual names confidential. I didn't think my comments were any sort of harsh condemnation, just a candid remark about how this all seemed like so much silly gossip.

If a person posts something on a public message board, then other people will respond, which is what I did. Eddie and you are certainly entitled to your opinions, and I am entitled to mine.

I stand by what I said: I believe David Page is too ill to continue running the festival, and that all this speculation about why he stepped down misses the point, which is that if people want the festival to continue, then they should pick up the phone and call Holy Rosary and ask how they can help out. Or, if losing the festival is unfortunate but not that big of a deal, then just let it go and move on.

omg.. just stop.. nothing personal, I'm just tired of it..

Love it! I'm sure others will disagree, yeah, it lacks context, and I'm guessing that in person it may be a touch disappointing, kinda like paint by numbers modern architecture, but I love a touch of audacity every once in awhile, even if it is a bit contrived.

I'm assuming there will be plenty of outdoor seating?

Nice new proposal from Blackline on Cornell Avenue in Broad Ripple:

http://www.urbanindy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/427968_323489324381278_132163510180528_916373_1416039600_n.jpg

http://www.urbanindy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/399010_323488517714692_132163510180528_916372_674604797_n.jpg

http://www.urbanindy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/529300_323486861048191_132163510180528_916371_1502807585_n.jpg

Love it! I'm sure others will disagree, yeah, it lacks context, and I'm guessing that in person it may be a touch disappointing, kinda like paint by numbers modern architecture, but I love a touch of audacity every once in awhile, even if it is a bit contrived.

I'm assuming there will be plenty of outdoor seating?

1. Violates city's infill guidelines on SO many levels.
2. Lacks context, as moochie points out.
3. Is every bit as formulaic/cookie cutter as older architecture:
eyebrow, check
bright contrast color, check
mixed materials, check
horizontal slat rails, check
lack of symmetry on any axis, check
non-standard and non-repeating random window sizes, check
strong horizontal lines lack continuity across surfaces, check

At least they didn't put Ratio's hat on it.

Moochie: "omg.. just stop.. nothing personal, I'm just tired of it."

I was tired of it three weeks ago.

As far as the "cafe" or whatever -- looks like your average representation of some type of small building that is supposed to look "Modern". Reminds me a bit of a two story "Rally's".

Overall, the building looks fine - although definitely its not any big deal. The renderings just look strange with these people wandering aimlessly into and through the "parking lot" with no clear place identified that they are planning to go. And they don't connect the front entrance to the sidewalk in front - or to the parking area. If there is going to be outdoor seating -- where is that going to go? If in front -- why not show it? Are those people supposed to be just walking into the woods? Cruising the parking lot? The bicyclist cruising the parking lot is strange too. If the company wants to make an impression by inserting these realistic looking people into the renderings -- they should put them in in a way that makes sense.

(That little "balcony" thing looks like

Hey guys... long-time lurker, first-time poster here. Love the discussions.

I'm impressed at IUPUI's new Science building, it seems it'll help liven up the dull area created by the existing Purdue buildings, but I also wish it had something more engaging planned for the first floor, since this will be directly across the street from the Cultural Trail.

http://newsinfo.iu.edu/pub/libs/images/usr/13613_h.jpg

Definitely glad to see the glass on the east side. IUPUI has way too many buildings with way too much concrete gray. This at least adds a bit of color.

Full disclosure: A big reason I love it is because I have a healthy measure of contempt for Broadripple as a neighborhood. I don't mind questionable developments being placed in an area that's become a trendy place for suburban housewives to "go slumming"... Obnoxious, upper middleclass honkies who mistakenly believe that they are wealthy...

Broadripple has become a poor caricature of itself. An amusement park for the unamusing. I have little issue with a "modern" building that may very well be a poor caricature of modern architecture being there. Just one more thing for me to chuckle at while biking through.

Yes, I know I'm being elitist and offensive. I apologize.

1. Violates city's infill guidelines on SO many levels.
2. Lacks context, as moochie points out.
3. Is every bit as formulaic/cookie cutter as older architecture:
eyebrow, check
bright contrast color, check
mixed materials, check
horizontal slat rails, check
lack of symmetry on any axis, check
non-standard and non-repeating random window sizes, check
strong horizontal lines lack continuity across surfaces, check

At least they didn't put Ratio's hat on it.

Hey guys... long-time lurker, first-time poster here. Love the discussions.

I'm impressed at IUPUI's new Science building, it seems it'll help liven up the dull area created by the existing Purdue buildings, but I also wish it had something more engaging planned for the first floor, since this will be directly across the street from the Cultural Trail.

http://newsinfo.iu.edu/pub/libs/images/usr/13613_h.jpg

The colored glass adds some visual interest, but at least from the rough sketch it does not look terribly different from the existing buildings. However, it certainly helps the integrity of the campus setting to have another solid in-fill building go up.

Full disclosure: A big reason I love it is because I have a healthy measure of contempt for Broadripple as a neighborhood. I don't mind questionable developments being placed in an area that's become a trendy place for suburban housewives to "go slumming"... Obnoxious, upper middleclass honkies who mistakenly believe that they are wealthy...

Broadripple has become a poor caricature of itself. An amusement park for the unamusing. I have little issue with a "modern" building that may very well be a poor caricature of modern architecture being there. Just one more thing for me to chuckle at while biking through.

Yes, I know I'm being elitist and offensive. I apologize.

I know Broad Ripple has long had a reputation for being artsy and hip like So-Ho or the Haight. But I never thought there was much there beyond the Arts Center (which is very nice), and a quaint village strip with a handful of good restaurants, a few boutiques, and lots of bars catering to the college age crowd. Maybe in the 1960's it had an authentic counter-culture vibe (though I thought that was more in Herron Morton), but for as long as I have known it, it has been a cross of small Vermont village and typical college town nightlife.

I do remember going there occasionally with my parents to the shops or restaurants, and later when I was in high school driving down the strip hoping to find something cool or unique, but I never saw much that was terribly impressive. I will say I had fun dancing at the Vogue a few times (I don't even think they have dancing anymore--I'm probably showing my age...)

It is a pretty neighborhood, and it is a bit unique for Indianapolis, but I always preferred Chatham Arch or Fountain Square.

As for the building proposal, I am not that impressed with it, and I think it needs some reworking.

Full disclosure: A big reason I love it is because I have a healthy measure of contempt for Broadripple as a neighborhood. I don't mind questionable developments being placed in an area that's become a trendy place for suburban housewives to "go slumming"... Obnoxious, upper middleclass honkies who mistakenly believe that they are wealthy...

Broadripple has become a poor caricature of itself. An amusement park for the unamusing. I have little issue with a "modern" building that may very well be a poor caricature of modern architecture being there. Just one more thing for me to chuckle at while biking through.

Yes, I know I'm being elitist and offensive. I apologize.

While I'm not going to rave about how amazing the design for the building is...it's always funny to me to see people on hear even blast it when someone attempts to do something "modern" and the result doesn't turn out all that bad. Come on...Indianapolis isn't exactly the place for good design. Look at the photos of all the apartments under construction. Can you sit here and tell me most of those designs are better than this little cafe? At least it doesn't look like The Avenue or the Lugar Tower project.

Again, it's not an amazing design...but at least there is evidence that they were trying to do something a little different and it doesn't look too bad. I'm all for being critical of designs in this town...as I work in the architecture profession and am constantly disappointed with what is designed in town...but sometimes it's just too much negativity.

http://movies.eventful.com/competitions/bully2012

Vote for Indianapolis to host this great movie!
This is a great chance to showcase our city and meet a good actor and be in the national spotlight again and show off our great community! :)

http://movies.eventful.com/competitions/bully2012

Vote for Indianapolis to host this great movie!
This is a great chance to showcase our city and meet a good actor and be in the national spotlight again and show off our great community! :)

No clue what this movie is, but I voted anyway. I have a fond memory of the sneak preview of "weird science" being held in Indy at washington square when I was little and seeing myself on national news standing in line with the free pass I got from the YMCA. . I think I was 10.

[QUOTE=UrbanIndy;89900871]Nice new proposal from Blackline on Cornell Avenue in Broad Ripple:

http://www.urbanindy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/427968_323489324381278_132163510180528_916373_1416039600_n.jpg
QUOTE]

Appears to be an attempt to do something creative with infill. Not a stellar attempt IMO. Cafe seems to be a default idea for ground floor, where I would like to see more office space worked into those spaces to create more day time demand for the existing cafes, restraunts, banks, cleaners, retailers, etc.

A comprehensive center township wide initiative to create high quality infill is desperately needed. (Especially with Indy metro population growing but with much of the growth outside the core.) I suspect it would start with an aggressive strategy to update zoning laws - probably politically tough. Then move on to setting high standards for modern architecture that does not offend the existing built forms too harshly - again tough given diverse opinions on what defines that. Fletcher Place, Chatham Arch, and Herron Morton all have some decent examples built over the past decade of this.

While I'm not going to rave about how amazing the design for the building is...it's always funny to me to see people on hear even blast it when someone attempts to do something "modern" and the result doesn't turn out all that bad. Come on...Indianapolis isn't exactly the place for good design. Look at the photos of all the apartments under construction. Can you sit here and tell me most of those designs are better than this little cafe? At least it doesn't look like The Avenue or the Lugar Tower project.

Again, it's not an amazing design...but at least there is evidence that they were trying to do something a little different and it doesn't look too bad. I'm all for being critical of designs in this town...as I work in the architecture profession and am constantly disappointed with what is designed in town...but sometimes it's just too much negativity.

I agree. I know that when I visit other cities and see little modern buildings such as this, I always wish I could see more of them in Indy. This isn't a starchitect putting up a huge monstrosity as a monument to himself. It's a fun little infill project. No harm, no foul, IMO.

Right. ^^ I didn't have anything too critical to say about the building itself. Basically I said it was fine. I just thought it was strange the way the renderings had those people walking aimlessly through the small parking lot. Also -- it looked like the building was just plopped down into a grassy yard. No new landscaping shown. No exterior deck area. The little slab of a walkway just comes out from the front and stops -- before even reaching the sidewalk or the adjacent parking area. That was my biggest complaint - that they went to all of the work to design the building and then were just really sloppy in finishing off the surroundings in the rendering.

Speaking of modern construction -- has anyone seen the rehab of the building at Fletcher and Shelby Streets - just four or five blocks north of Fountain Square? It looks good. It is diagonally across the street from the KIB headquarters and the Dairy Queen. A run-down, deserted two story building is being turned into a cool looking, modern mixed use project (I believe). It may be a residential project and possibly may have some type of commercial as well. I'm not sure exactly what it is going to be - but it looks good and makes a nice corridor-ending viewpoint as you're driving east on Fletcher.

If this has been asked already I apologize. I was on Mass Ave this morning making a delivery to Schmidt & Associates. I noticed that in the pavement in each parking space there is about a 4 inch circle of glass or plexiglass. Are these lights? Sensors?

I like the Broad Ripple proposal. For an area that is mostly converted homes into businesses, its a step in a different direction for a commercial structure. That in itself is worth celebrating. Additionally, its oriented along the Monon. This is good as well.

As for the new lab building, it will be nice to see the space being used. I dont like the gerbil tube, but at least its on the 3rd floor. People still need to get around and crossing the sidewalk versus climbing three floors to just stay inside is a good choice to present to people. The glass looks nice, and is at least an advancement from the blocky feel of most of the other structures. Most importantly, there isnt a huge parking garage stuck to the side of it.

If this has been asked already I apologize. I was on Mass Ave this morning making a delivery to Schmidt & Associates. I noticed that in the pavement in each parking space there is about a 4 inch circle of glass or plexiglass. Are these lights? Sensors?

I thought I heard something about ParkIndy doing sensors for their parking spots.........but idk

What a bunch of knuckleheads...
http://www.ibj.com/greenwood-rejects-cross-country-bicycle-route/PARAMS/article/33539

I thought I heard something about ParkIndy doing sensors for their parking spots.........but idk
ParkIndy has an app called "Parker" that shows available parking spots by block. It's currently only in use on the Monument, Mass Ave and Broad Ripple.

I haven't seen the things in the ground yet, but I assume you're right that what mobyhead saw was a sensor for that system.

^^ Thanks. I can sleep well tonight knowing the answer. :)

I just downloaded the free app. Neat technology.

The colored glass adds some visual interest, but at least from the rough sketch it does not look terribly different from the existing buildings. However, it certainly helps the integrity of the campus setting to have another solid in-fill building go up.

It is too bad the building doesn't properly address the street, but i guess it is in keeping with the rest of their campus. Develop a building in the middle of a grass block.......

It is too bad the building doesn't properly address the street, but i guess it is in keeping with the rest of their campus. Develop a building in the middle of a grass block.......

At least they have the colored glass facing the street, which is more than most campus buildings do.

I know a more active pedestrian life is in the master plan for IUPUI, I'm just curious when it'll actually be worked for. They currently have an active contract with Chartwells (which most students hate,) to be the exclusive caterer/food service provider/retail provider on campus, so the chances of them ever throwing in some mixed retail space on campus is nil, but I guess that's what the 10th Street/ Indiana Ave. corridor is for.

I also wonder if any of the other three sides have colored glass windows on them. You can't tell from the rendering.

I've also heard that this Science and Engineering Research facility is just a "phase 1" project and there will be a Science and Engineering Research facility "Phase 2" coming up sometime down the road. I didn't try to look up any long term site plans, but I feel pretty confident to say that the phase 2 building will fit in to the south of the one they are just now breaking ground for. It will be the building that addresses the street along both New York Street and Blackford.

Someone finally made a 3D model of the JW and uploaded to Google Earth.
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa215/baronalex/jw.jpg

It's missing the Fairfield Tower

It's amazing how different the skyline is from 1999 til now.. in 13 years, Market Square Arena and the RCA Dome are gone. Conseco Fieldhouse and Lucas Oil have been built, the JW Marriott, The Simon Tower, The Conrad are all new. Who could have predicted that the skyline would extend to the South and to the West? It sure seems more natural that downtown would have grown to the North around the War Memorials and up to the library.



Someone finally made a 3D model of the JW and uploaded to Google Earth.
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa215/baronalex/jw.jpg

It's missing the Fairfield Tower

^^ Plus Region Bank Tower is shiny and new!

the surface lots are a disgrace though - thankfully we are losing 2.5 of them soon!

Full disclosure: A big reason I love it is because I have a healthy measure of contempt for Broadripple as a neighborhood. I don't mind questionable developments being placed in an area that's become a trendy place for suburban housewives to "go slumming"... Obnoxious, upper middleclass honkies who mistakenly believe that they are wealthy...

Broadripple has become a poor caricature of itself. An amusement park for the unamusing. I have little issue with a "modern" building that may very well be a poor caricature of modern architecture being there. Just one more thing for me to chuckle at while biking through.

Yes, I know I'm being elitist and offensive. I apologize.

But you are also so incredibly spot on!

I also wonder if any of the other three sides have colored glass windows on them. You can't tell from the rendering.

I've also heard that this Science and Engineering Research facility is just a "phase 1" project and there will be a Science and Engineering Research facility "Phase 2" coming up sometime down the road. I didn't try to look up any long term site plans, but I feel pretty confident to say that the phase 2 building will fit in to the south of the one they are just now breaking ground for. It will be the building that addresses the street along both New York Street and Blackford.

I found a rendering of the west and north side of the building. Can't find anything for the side that faces New York Street.

http://www.iu.edu/~iuwebdev/projects/ceremonies/html-emails/selb-invitation-2012/production/img/iupui-science-building.jpg

Nothing interesting, part of me likes that the windows at least give it some unity with the older Science buildings around it. Still bland.

EDIT: Also did a little more research, looks like this new building already deviates from the Master Plan that was approved in 2009. Both in design and placement, but also the plan called for no more skywalks.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8459/screenshot20120329at638.png
^ This area in the master plan.

The skywalk placement on the renderings doesn't make sense. The landing in that stairwell is at the windows but the skywalk seems to line up with the floor line of the science building instead of the landing.

Didn't see these posted, and also haven't been on in a couple days. On the IBJ there were a couple new job expansion announcements. Good news for Indy even if they are out in the suburbs.

Carmel consulting firm plans to expand, add 96 jobs
http://www.ibj.com/carmel-consulting-firm-plans-to-expand--add-96-jobs/PARAMS/article/33535

Westfield seat-belt maker plans to add 65 workers
http://www.ibj.com/westfield-seat-belt-maker-plans-to-add-65-workers/PARAMS/article/33503

The skywalk placement on the renderings doesn't make sense. The landing in that stairwell is at the windows but the skywalk seems to line up with the floor line of the science building instead of the landing.
I used to work in that building and the windows in the stairwells are actually at half-floors, the point where a stair is broken in half and turns 180 degrees.

I used to work in that building and the windows in the stairwells are actually at half-floors, the point where a stair is broken in half and turns 180 degrees.

Right, but that's not where the tube connects. It connects in between the windows which would be at regular floor height, which now that I think about it makes sense from an ADA perspective. Guess they'll just have to connect it across.

But now I don't like it for a different reason. All the other tubes are on the second floors and this one is one the third. Plus the fact that it keeps the setback of the other 2 buildings on the block instead of engaging the street and cultural trail.

Right, but that's not where the tube connects. It connects in between the windows which would be at regular floor height, which now that I think about it makes sense from an ADA perspective. Guess they'll just have to connect it across.

But now I don't like it for a different reason. All the other tubes are on the second floors and this one is one the third. Plus the fact that it keeps the setback of the other 2 buildings on the block instead of engaging the street and cultural trail.
Maybe I'm just not understanding what you mean, but looks like it connects level with the 3rd floor of the LD building.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s289/corrnd/SELBEast-North.jpg

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s289/corrnd/SELBWest-South.jpg

And to GarfieldPark, you're correct that there's a Phase I and Phase II to this project.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s289/corrnd/SELBPhaseI-II.jpg

illogicaljake: I found a rendering of the west and north side of the building. Can't find anything for the side that faces New York Street.


I noticed this updated IUPUI Master plan of February 2011 that was approved. Pretty nice and detailed. Shows the area we are talking about.

http://masterplan.indiana.edu/iupui/IUPUI_Master_Plan.pdf

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/560818_387976574560076_188606651163737_1354853_401716677_n.jpg

If it's too off topic, I'll delete. I just know how many detest EIFS
This picture was taken 3/29 in South Texas. Golfball size hail v. EIFS.

Original link (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=387976574560076&set=a.217448328279569.64061.188606651163737&type=1)

illogicaljake: I found a rendering of the west and north side of the building. Can't find anything for the side that faces New York Street.


I noticed this updated IUPUI Master plan of February 2011 that was approved. Pretty nice and detailed. Shows the area we are talking about.

http://masterplan.indiana.edu/iupui/IUPUI_Master_Plan.pdf

They list people mover infill stations. Notably, near the commercial center where Jimmy Johns and Textbook alternative are. I have said in the past this is a great place for a new station.

They list an IUPUI Cultural Trail link that bisects the education campus

That master plan is pretty interesting. One thing in particular that intrigued me was that they showed two new stops on the People Mover. One is around 13th and Senate and the other is near Crispus Attucks high school where they also showed a huge parking garage. Seems like that second one would primarily be used by people driving in and parking there and then taking the people mover either north to the North Canal campus or the Methodist Hospital campus or SW to the heart of the Med Center main campus.

I think some discussions should occur between the IU Health folks, the City and some of the private sector developers who own commercial businesses and apartments near 10th and Indiana Avenue. The discussions would be about installing a people mover stop near that location. With "The Avenue", the campus apartments, Lockefield Gardens apartments, the existing commercial center in the middle of that intersection, the redevelopment of the former Wishard Hospital site (potentially hundreds of new residential units), and thousands of workers and students linked to the site via the People Mover, there is a huge amount of people that could walk to the site or be easily transported to that area - without cars.

The existing strip center should be turned into a much more site-efficient, multi-level mixed use complex with below ground parking - primarily for residents, and a little structured parking for people driving to the location; mid-rise (8 - 12 stories) residential development aimed at students and/or Med Center workers, and new commercial. Some of the retail and restaurants could be at the street level and some restaurants could be at a second or third floor - connected directly to the people mover access level.

With a people mover stop there, students and workers could use that to arrive instead of trying to drive and park in the limited parking area that currently exists. It seems that it would be a much more productive use of the land for the owner of the site and could help that area become a much more pedestrian and transit accessible site.

Curt: I was thinking along the same lines as you - typing while you posted your message. The new people mover stop near the Jimmy Johns (and Crispus Attucks) offers good opportunities for higher intensity development -- but I think a stop near 10th and Indiana would work pretty well too. Lots of housing immediately adjacent to that site - with opportunities for more.

Yeah, I did a post for Urban Indy a while back talking abou tthe same thing.
http://www.urbanindy.com/2010/12/17/could-a-new-people-mover-station-spur-development/

http://www.urbanindy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/people_mover_proposed_station.jpg

Very good ^^ That current set-up for that strip center is just so inefficient. Hopefully it won't be too long before market forces help it get changed.

Someone finally made a 3D model of the JW and uploaded to Google Earth.

It's missing the Fairfield Tower

For all of the available space in DT Indy, the CBD is still very tightly confined. You go from 500 foot towers to vast expanses of parking lots in a block or two.

That case for 1015 Virginia will be continued again to 5/2/12 at the request of the applicant:

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/IHPC/Hearings/Documents/2012-COA-033-FS.pdf

Any one have any information on the scheduled public hearing for a vacant site near 22nd and Meridian. There has been a developer sign there with a commercial rendering on it for a while, but I just recently noticed 2 public hearing signs. The address would be 22 something north meridian street

Back when the Convention Center expansion was still in it's design stage, I was invited to Ratio's office to look at their models. I remember discussion in the media at the time how much our skyline was going to change and there was general concern about a hole where the Hoosier Dome used to be.

I suggested to Bill Browne that they put a permanent ferris wheel on top of the new Convention Center.. he laughed, and I'm sure that most would, but the idea isn't without precedent. In Japan for example, Ferris wheels are mounted on tons of urban shopping centers and the like, and of course there is London's Eye, and the non-permanent permanent ferris wheel next to the Louvre in Paris.

With the crazy success of the zip line during the Superbowl, perhaps my idea doesn't seem so nutty. It's not like a ferris wheel or some other type of permanent amusement ride would be high maintenance, and it may serve as a good selling point for future conventions. It also may fill in a hole in the skyline where the Hoosier Dome used to be.

Someone finally made a 3D model of the JW and uploaded to Google Earth.
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa215/baronalex/jw.jpg

It's missing the Fairfield Tower

Any one have any information on the scheduled public hearing for a vacant site near 22nd and Meridian. There has been a developer sign there with a commercial rendering on it for a while, but I just recently noticed 2 public hearing signs. The address would be 22 something north meridian street

Zoning notice says it is a rezoning to the SU-1 classification to allow a school.

I'd have to be convinced that's the right use for the site.

Looks like the proposal for 1015 Virginia is a gas station. Seriously, a fucking gas station next to the Cultural Trail? It sounds like they want to build the convenience store right up against Virginia, but still, this proposal really needs to be nixed. These are the moments when it's good to have IHPC to protect areas.

Here are the details of the MDC Hearing Examiner case for next week (separate from the IHPC case):

1015 VIRGINIA AVENUE (Approximate Address)
INDIANAPOLIS, CENTER TOWNSHIP
COUNCIL DISTRICT # 19
JAMES R. AND JAMES W. COOP, by David Kingen, requests Rezoning of 0.54 acre
from the C-5 classification to the C-3 classification to provide for a convenience store /
gasoline station.

Variance of development standards of the Commercial Zoning Ordinance to provide for
the construction of a two-story, 9,290-square foot convenience store / gasoline station
and office, with:

a) a zero-foot front setback (40-feet from the centerline) along Virginia Avenue (70-
foot setback, with landscaping, from the centerline required),
b) a zero-foot front setback along Buchanan Street (10-foot front setback, with
landscaping, required),
c) 22 parking spaces (38 parking spaces required),
d) carryout food service within 59 feet of a D-8 zoned protected district,
e) to provide for an outdoor seating area (not permitted),
f) to provide for a building within the clear sight triangle of Buchanan Street and
Virginia Avenue, and
g) to provide for an access aisle and parking area with a six-foot front setback from
Buchanan Street (10-foot front setback, with landscaping required).

An outdoor seating area? I don't get it, why would a gas station need one? For that matter, a 2 story office/retail center? Why would they want a gas station too?

Looks like the proposal for 1015 Virginia is a gas station. Seriously, a fucking gas station next to the Cultural Trail? It sounds like they want to build the convenience store right up against Virginia, but still, this proposal really needs to be nixed. These are the moments when it's good to have IHPC to protect areas.

Here are the details of the MDC Hearing Examiner case for next week (separate from the IHPC case):

1015 VIRGINIA AVENUE (Approximate Address)
INDIANAPOLIS, CENTER TOWNSHIP
COUNCIL DISTRICT # 19
JAMES R. AND JAMES W. COOP, by David Kingen, requests Rezoning of 0.54 acre
from the C-5 classification to the C-3 classification to provide for a convenience store /
gasoline station.

Variance of development standards of the Commercial Zoning Ordinance to provide for
the construction of a two-story, 9,290-square foot convenience store / gasoline station
and office, with:

a) a zero-foot front setback (40-feet from the centerline) along Virginia Avenue (70-
foot setback, with landscaping, from the centerline required),
b) a zero-foot front setback along Buchanan Street (10-foot front setback, with
landscaping, required),
c) 22 parking spaces (38 parking spaces required),
d) carryout food service within 59 feet of a D-8 zoned protected district,
e) to provide for an outdoor seating area (not permitted),
f) to provide for a building within the clear sight triangle of Buchanan Street and
Virginia Avenue, and
g) to provide for an access aisle and parking area with a six-foot front setback from
Buchanan Street (10-foot front setback, with landscaping required).

An outdoor seating area? I don't get it, why would a gas station need one?
If they provide an accessory retail space, presumably for a restaurant. It seems to be the thing to do when trying to get a gas station through IHPC. The one at 16th/Central has an accessory space with outdoor seating and it was approved by IHPC.

It should be noted, though, that the surrounding neighborhoods have filed suit to block the 16th/Central one. And the one at 10th/DMLK was nixed by IHPC. Gas station proposals in protected areas aren't faring well these days.

I don't get it. Are gas stations really that big of profit generators? We all know that service stations dont make a lot of money on gasoline sales. Its the chips and soda that make the bucks in comparison; or at least this is what I have read.

Is the line of thought here that bringing people in to buy gas will sell more chips and drinks? With the foot traffic this close to the square, why not just nix the gas station idea allo together, and offer a convenience store, then lease the rest for a diner or something? Hasnt anyone indicated to these people how expensive it is to pave open space for ultra-low revenue generating parking?

*scratching head*

I don't get it. Are gas stations really that big of profit generators? We all know that service stations dont make a lot of money on gasoline sales. Its the chips and soda that make the bucks in comparison; or at least this is what I have read.

Is the line of thought here that bringing people in to buy gas will sell more chips and drinks? With the foot traffic this close to the square, why not just nix the gas station idea allo together, and offer a convenience store, then lease the rest for a diner or something? Hasnt anyone indicated to these people how expensive it is to pave open space for ultra-low revenue generating parking?

*scratching head*

I'm beginning to think that the standard line about the gas stations barely breaking even on the gas sales might be a myth. Gas stations have been about the only commercial development many areas of Center Twp has seen over the last five years or so.

Wasn't there a convenience store (Skip's Market?) just down the block that closed within the last couple years? Perhaps there still isn't enough density and foot traffic in Fountain Square to support such a store without gas sales.

Sounds like it will be an interesting case. Does anyone have access to a site plan that could be posted?

I have a feeling Megabus Nashville service might not be long for this world. I took a trip to Louisville yesterday. The bus was probably 60-65% full - no bad for a 1:30 departure. but all but 10 people got off in Indy. The other ten were all going to Louisville - not a single person was going to Nashville.

I'm actually riding it from Louisville to Nashville on Friday and then taking the "red eye" back to Chicago Sunday night from Nashville. The latter is the most expensive Megabus ticket I've ever bought (it's Easter - not sure if that affects), so we'll see what the verdict is on the various stops. Given that it leaves Nashville at around midnight, I can see many people getting on in Louisville!

BTW: I checked out that stretch of East Market in Louisville called NuLu. It was pretty dead, but it was the Monday night of the NCAA title game featuring Kentucky after all. Went to a restaurant called Garage Bar that featured pizzas that was pretty good. It's co-owned by the 21C/Proof people. Looks like there are a ton of good place that have opened on that stretch. While Indy has pretty good restaurants now, Louisville still continues to greatly impress in this column.

Back when the Convention Center expansion was still in it's design stage, I was invited to Ratio's office to look at their models. I remember discussion in the media at the time how much our skyline was going to change and there was general concern about a hole where the Hoosier Dome used to be.

I suggested to Bill Browne that they put a permanent ferris wheel on top of the new Convention Center.. he laughed, and I'm sure that most would, but the idea isn't without precedent. In Japan for example, Ferris wheels are mounted on tons of urban shopping centers and the like, and of course there is London's Eye, and the non-permanent permanent ferris wheel next to the Louvre in Paris.

With the crazy success of the zip line during the Superbowl, perhaps my idea doesn't seem so nutty. It's not like a ferris wheel or some other type of permanent amusement ride would be high maintenance, and it may serve as a good selling point for future conventions. It also may fill in a hole in the skyline where the Hoosier Dome used to be.


ACTUALLY, in Cleveland out at the expo center next to the airport they have a ferris wheel permanently constructed inside that extend above the roof. It's enclosed with a glass canopy. I like the idea. I actually think that WRSP needs to construct some sort of permanent ferris wheel or "ride." I think it would be a perfect fit for the park and is acyually sorley needed.

I think a gas station regardless of design and amenities would be a horrible idea for that area. Just think if the owners decided to under-cut their competitors by offering gas at 5-10 cents lees per gallon. Now picture the traffic snarls that would create.

Many have said that the housing crash would have long-term affects in several areas of the country. A growing body of research is proving that point and stating some areas that experienced a housing boom and bust may years to recover. In some cases the demographic and geographic shift may be permanent. Here in the Indianapolis region we can be thankful that the city never experienced such a boom.

From the article:

A growing body of research suggests that the recent recession may have brought an enduring shift in the geography of American growth. Places like Gwinnett County near Atlanta, Lake County, north of Orlando, and San Joaquin County in California’s central valley, where housing booms were fueled by borrowed money, may now become long-term laggards under the weight of those debts.

A growing body of research suggests that the recent recession may have brought an enduring shift in the geography of American growth. Places like Gwinnett County near Atlanta, Lake County, north of Orlando, and San Joaquin County in California’s central valley, where housing booms were fueled by borrowed money, may now become long-term laggards under the weight of those debts.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/03/business/economy/where-housing-once-boomed-recovery-lags.html?_r=1&hpw

ACTUALLY, in Cleveland out at the expo center next to the airport they have a ferris wheel permanently constructed inside that extend above the roof. It's enclosed with a glass canopy. I like the idea. I actually think that WRSP needs to construct some sort of permanent ferris wheel or "ride." I think it would be a perfect fit for the park and is acyually sorley needed.

As long as we're talking pie in the sky fun ideas, I've always been fascinated by the Sky Ride at Chicago's World Fair in 1933. Two 650 foot towers with tethered zeppelin-like ships that travelled about a half mile attracted 4.5 million riders while it existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_Ride

Anyhoo, I'd think that two large steel, Eiffel Tower-like towers, one at Georgia Street, and one at WRSP that connected to each other via cables that ran observation/transportation type zeppelin balloons would connect partiers and conventioneers at WRSP to downtown via Georgia Street and the Convention Center would be pretty neat and give us international attention if designed well. think of the advertising opportunities!

That's maybe even a better idea than my 800 foot Howler Monkey habitat tower on top of Regions Bank that no one seems to like for some reason...

As long as we're talking pie in the sky fun ideas, I've always been fascinated by
That's maybe even a better idea than my 800 foot Howler Monkey habitat tower on top of Regions Bank that no one seems to like for some reason...

Whatchoo talkin' 'bout Willis???

Whatchoo talkin' 'bout Willis???

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=86416172&postcount=6462

As long as we're talking pie in the sky fun ideas, I've always been fascinated by the Sky Ride at Chicago's World Fair in 1933. Two 650 foot towers with tethered zeppelin-like ships that travelled about a half mile attracted 4.5 million riders while it existed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_Ride

Anyhoo, I'd think that two large steel, Eiffel Tower-like towers, one at Georgia Street, and one at WRSP that connected to each other via cables that ran observation/transportation type zeppelin balloons would connect partiers and conventioneers at WRSP to downtown via Georgia Street and the Convention Center would be pretty neat and give us international attention if designed well. think of the advertising opportunities!

That's maybe even a better idea than my 800 foot Howler Monkey habitat tower on top of Regions Bank that no one seems to like for some reason...
I happen to love your unwavering enthusiasm for the howler monkey habitat.

Channel 13 had a story on their news last night about downtown development plans focused around various districts. The primary districts discussed were the "Tech 16" bio-medical research district, the "Market District" east of City Market, and the "GM District" where redevelopment is being proposed for the former GM Stamping plant site. The story can be found in the following link. Also -- at the end of the WTHR story there was a link to the detailed "20 year downtown development" study upon which the news story was based. That study has a huge amount of very interesting information. It can be viewed by clicking on the second link below.

http://www.wthr.com/story/17315608/indianapolis-focused-on-hot-spots-for-future-growth


Downtown Indy 20 year development strategies document:

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wthr/PDF/downtownfuture.pdf

^^ Major "new" components of the plan above (that haven't been discussed much yet to my knowledge) include:

Expansion of the Harrison College campus along E. Washington St.

New narrow urban park between Washington and Market Streets and between Alabama and New Jersey Streets

New criminal justice campus south and east of City County building including 800,000 sq ft main building (10 - 12 stories) plus 3000 space parking garage and additional 100,000 sq. ft bldg.

S. Meridian Street "Work / Live" district -- (south of South Street - in the former "SODO" area). Estimated 1200 residential units between Illinois St and the RR tracks located 1/2 block east of Pennsylvania St.

High density residential development sw of downtown along both sides of the White River

Transit Center -- possibly along South Street (north of Lucas Oil Stadium)

Possible expansion of the Convention Center to the main Post Office site (this could also be the site for the possible transit center as well)

Mixed use Stadium District in the triangle shaped area west of the stadium and south of Kentucky Ave.

Riverfront Greenway along both sides of White River from WRSP to I-70 (and maybe further south)

The summary page at the end of the document concludes with the following statistics:

"This planning document could produce the following outcomes if implemented over the next 20 years:

- 9,300 Housing Units
- 18,600 structured parking spaces
- 790,000 sq. feet of commercial / retail space
- 1,845,350 sq. feet of office space "

^^
New narrow urban park between Washington and Market Streets and between Alabama and New Jersey Streets

Man.. what a stupid place for a park.. They also have one at the area where Maryland merges into Washington... dumb, dumb, dumb.

Neat that they're envisioning housing on the narrow strip of grass separating the old Bank One garage from Market street tho.

And this Justice Center... I want full size renders! It looks neat in that little 100 x 100 pixel cube.

Just some thoughts after glancing through the document.