Unusual thing today, anywhere from 20 to 30 taxi cabs have taken nearly all the street parking between the CCB and City Market. I know it's election day, so most offices are closed.. I wonder what the story is there?
The Clerk uses taxis to move things to and from the polling sites.

Whole Foods opening in Midtown Detroit: http://www.salon.com/2012/05/05/whole_foods_is_coming_time_to_buy/singleton/

I live here in Austn and worked next to their HQ which is on the western side of downtown. It also had a huge store as part of their office building. It had a massive lunch crowd where people would walk 3 to 5 blocks to eat there. It was very energetic and a nice setting. Recently I heard they are actually going to add a 20 to 25 story office building to their existing site. Right in the middle of buildings like the cosmopolitan and other high rise residential.

It would be nice if one would come to the downtown Indy area or nearby. What is the chance of that? Just curious....

There was talk of trying to incorporate a Whole Foods or Trader Joes into the development at College & Michigan. I havent heard anything else on that site or the project itself.

If the Marsh gets built as proposed in the "Axis" / "Pointe" development planned to start construction later this Summer near New York and Senate, there will then be two full service grocery stores in the heart of downtown (and two or three additional groceries within a mile and a half of downtown, in close-in neighborhoods). I haven't heard anyone talking about a Whole Foods coming into downtown Indianapolis. I'm pretty sure there is one in the Nora area, near 86th and Westfield - and there may be others.

There is a Whole Foods in Nora.

There is also another one at Clay Terrace in Carmel

I think the project at Collegeg and Michigan missed tax credits or something so they said they plan on moving forward, but may reduce units or split into phases......

Wholefoods Has never actually built a store here though, They just bought out wild oats ( i think that was the name). It's gonna take way more people downtown, or a huge project to get a whole foods built down there.

Unusual thing today, anywhere from 20 to 30 taxi cabs have taken nearly all the street parking between the CCB and City Market. I know it's election day, so most offices are closed.. I wonder what the story is there?

I worked the last four elections at the Election Board and we take the absentee ballots from the city county building to all of the precincts in Marion County. Then if we have any absentee ballots come in through the mail we have to process them and go through a whole routine and then send a bi partisan team to the polling site where the ballot was received. Election Day sucks behind the scenes!!

Thank you for doing it though Unvrsty07! Those are definitely some very long hours and it undoubtedly is a very under-appreciated job.

In a local magazine called SOPHISTICATED LIVING, there is a Conrad ad with a photo showing two Conrad guests on Conrad bikes on the CT west of the Conrad. Sick.

That's pretty brazen.

BUT, maybe their hearts will soften after they see what a great amenity it is and they'll rethink their valet situation.

Trying to think positive! :)

calm down, we don't need high-rises nor will they make us a better city.. We have too many empty/parking lots that could used mid-rise multi-use infill which would be much more beneficial to the future and success of our city.

TYPICAL conservative Indiana mentality. Meanwhile Austin, with a much smaller corporate base, is kicking Indy's ass with their downtown building. Think Minneapolis got to where they are with this kind of thinking? Indy is about 30 years behind them. Might as well move there, as indiana continues it pitch to the right...:ohno::ohno::ohno::ohno:

TYPICAL conservative Indiana mentality. Meanwhile Austin, with a much smaller corporate base, is kicking Indy's ass with their downtown building. Think Minneapolis got to where they are with this kind of thinking? Indy is about 30 years behind them. Might as well move there, as indiana continues it pitch to the right...:ohno::ohno::ohno::ohno:

Gotta admit, I didn't ever think I'd see Ben called a conservative.

I think he's right. Cities can still achieve great density with midrises. With our city's poor transit, the taller the building, the more cars that are needed to transport people to those buildings.

Gotta admit, I didn't ever think I'd see Ben called a conservative.

I think he's right. Cities can still achieve great density with midrises. With our city's poor transit, the taller the building, the more cars that are needed to transport people to those buildings.

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE for Indy to achieve its potential for greatness...but people need to shake off the small-minded mentality. Indy has PRETENTIONS of being a big city. But that will never happen if it keeps thinking so small. Build a skyline worthy of the 12th-largest city in the county. Build an appropriate mass-transit system, for god's sake. In the meantime, smaller, lower-profile and less-important (to be honest) cities are passing us by. All boils down to HOOSIER CONSERVATISM.

I dont think anyone on this forum is going to lobby against tall buildings or a robust mass transit system (except maybe freelunch)

Taking pot shots at regular contributors will earn you a spot in the barrel for a long time.

I like the sentiment though! Dream big. Sometimes our perceived reality stifles a potential reality. Maybe if some of these larger scale mid rise projects are successful over the next few years we will motivate/attract some one with big dreams and enough ambition to build something we perceive as unattainable right now.

Wish I had the cash to do it myself. I believe Indy is worth the risk.

I'm still never gonna complain about good midrise development!

I like the sentiment though! Dream big. Sometimes our perceived reality stifles a potential reality. Maybe if some of these larger scale mid rise projects are successful over the next few years we will motivate/attract some one with big dreams and enough ambition to build something we perceive as unattainable right now.

Wish I had the cash to do it myself. I believe Indy is worth the risk.

I'm still never gonna complain about good midrise development!

Eddie, I think the point is that a deveoper put forward a real tower project where it would be appropriate but got stomped down. You or anyone else would probably get the same pushback.

Thought exercise: what if a developer had put together a "Riley Tower IV" for a 20-story market-rate tower on the Trailside site? Even the urban low-rise got lots of pushback.

There was talk of trying to incorporate a Whole Foods or Trader Joes into the development at College & Michigan. I havent heard anything else on that site or the project itself.
The College/Michigan project ("North Lockerbie") was denied low income housing credits in the latest round with the state (the same round that the Barton Tower base project received tax credits). I'm sure Whitsett will apply again but that project is probably in limbo for now.

If the Marsh gets built as proposed in the "Axis" / "Pointe" development planned to start construction later this Summer near New York and Senate, there will then be two full service grocery stores in the heart of downtown (and two or three additional groceries within a mile and a half of downtown, in close-in neighborhoods). I haven't heard anyone talking about a Whole Foods coming into downtown Indianapolis. I'm pretty sure there is one in the Nora area, near 86th and Westfield - and there may be others.
There's also an IGA grocery store at 24th and Meridian (http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2010/07/15/grocery-store-planned-for-former-downtown-cadillac-dealership/PARAMS/post/21102) currently under construction. Tues/Wed a demolition crew removed the small part of the former Cadillac dealership that jutted out north into the parking lot.

Calgary has almost 50 million square feet of office space downtown. I think Indy only has about 35 million in the entire metro area:

http://business.financialpost.com/2012/03/28/calgary-to-overtake-montreal-as-office-mecca/

That's crazy

I don't like high rises in Indy and I'm not afraid to say it. I wish the city had kept its height ordinance back in the 1960's.

The problem isn't with skyscrapers. The problem is that Indianapolis has no transit system like they do in NYC, Chicago, or SF that allows high rises to be built without parking. This means that in Indianapolis every high rise requires a large parking pedestal for huge amounts of car parking. This means that, like the AUL building, a single high rise can take up an entire block, which really is less dense than it might appear. It is also profoundly anti-urban. (Even Chicago suffers from this effect in its residential high rises).

Far better off is mid-rise where parking can be entirely self contained in the building and does not result in an anti-urban design. Keep in mind that cities like Paris and Barcelona are nearly uniformly 8-10 stories, yet are much more dense than any US city apart from New York.

Eddie, I think the point is that a deveoper put forward a real tower project where it would be appropriate but got stomped down. You or anyone else would probably get the same pushback.

Thought exercise: what if a developer had put together a "Riley Tower IV" for a 20-story market-rate tower on the Trailside site? Even the urban low-rise got lots of pushback.

The pushback on the trailside wasn't so much for the massing persey, but the way that they (surprise) planned to manage their parking. My guess is that no business owner in the 800 block is going to say, "Hey we dont want the extra folks living down here"

Calgary has almost 50 million square feet of office space downtown. I think Indy only has about 35 million in the entire metro area:

http://business.financialpost.com/2012/03/28/calgary-to-overtake-montreal-as-office-mecca/

That's crazy

Calgary's an oil and gas boomtown, like OKC or Houston.

There's also an IGA grocery store at 24th and Meridian (http://www.ibj.com/property-lines/2010/07/15/grocery-store-planned-for-former-downtown-cadillac-dealership/PARAMS/post/21102) currently under construction. Tues/Wed a demolition crew removed the small part of the former Cadillac dealership that jutted out north into the parking lot.

Heard that it was finally underway and had to drive by to see the wrecking crew for myself this week. Kudos to Near North Development Corp. for their perseverance and assistance to the developer.

Keep in mind that cities like Paris and Barcelona are nearly uniformly 8-10 stories, yet are much more dense than any US city apart from New York.

There was a story last week in the WSJ about La Defense, an outlying high-rise district of Paris that is the city's commercial office core. So it's not really all midrise.

From Wikipedia:

La Défense (pronounced [la de.fɑ̃s]) is a major business district of the Paris aire urbaine. With a population of 20,000,[1] it is centered in an orbital motorway straddling the Hauts-de-Seine département municipalities of Nanterre, Courbevoie and Puteaux. The district is at the westernmost extremity of Paris's 10 km long Historical Axis, which starts at the Louvre in Central Paris and continues along the Champs-Élysées, well beyond the Arc de Triomphe before culminating at La Défense.

La Défense is seen as comparable to Canary Wharf in London: both are spaces where "statements of corporate ambition can be made", without thereby encroaching on the historical quarters of the city.[2] Around its 110-metre (360 ft)-high Grande Arche and esplanade ("le Parvis"), the district holds many of the Paris urban area's tallest high-rises. With its 77.5 acres (314,000 m2), its 72 glass-and-steel slick buildings including 14 high-rises above 150 metres (490 ft), its 180,000 daily workers and 3.5 million square metres (37.7 million sq ft) of office space, La Défense is Europe's largest purpose-built business district.

From a mass email from Melissa Thompson, Georgia Street manager, IDI

------
I wanted to make you aware of an important Georgia Street parking update. Based on feedback we have received from many Georgia Street and Wholesale District representatives, IDI is working with IMPD and City DPW to eliminate metered parking on Georgia Street. The center block will still allow for designated motorcycle and electric vehicle parking. IMPD has posted signs and will be begin ticketing tomorrow morning. This will also help minimize the bollard and landscape damage. and West Blocks.

------

La Defense is outside the city of Paris (2.2 million people) and is more edge city than downtown.

La Defense is outside the city of Paris (2.2 million people) and is more edge city than downtown.

It is generally true that Paris is not a city of highrises, but La Defense is very close and provides the city with a major skyscraper district. Also, Paris does have some tall buildings, too.

Yes, La Defense is not within the city limits; however, it is only a little over 4 miles from the Eiffel Tower or a little over 6 miles from the Louvre. And the outer edges of La Defense are pretty much indistinguishable from the immediately adjoining Parisian neighborhood. Paris proper only covers about 41 square miles, so you don't need to go far to go outside the city limits. In other words, La Defense is not some far-flung suburb.

And, as mentioned, Paris does have tall buildings within the city limits. Of course, there is the infamous Tour Maine Montparnasse office building standing at 689 feet in Montparnasse. However, there are also several residential and commercial highrises, mainly in the outer neighborhoods (e.g. the 13th, 15th and 19th Arrondissements).

I don't like high rises in Indy and I'm not afraid to say it. I wish the city had kept its height ordinance back in the 1960's.

The problem isn't with skyscrapers. The problem is that Indianapolis has no transit system like they do in NYC, Chicago, or SF that allows high rises to be built without parking. This means that in Indianapolis every high rise requires a large parking pedestal for huge amounts of car parking. This means that, like the AUL building, a single high rise can take up an entire block, which really is less dense than it might appear. It is also profoundly anti-urban. (Even Chicago suffers from this effect in its residential high rises).

Far better off is mid-rise where parking can be entirely self contained in the building and does not result in an anti-urban design. Keep in mind that cities like Paris and Barcelona are nearly uniformly 8-10 stories, yet are much more dense than any US city apart from New York.



If I remember correctly you also would like to see the CCB torn down, and replaced with a much more horizontal development. Great idea. Let's make the skyline even smaller. :ohno::ohno::ohno::ohno:

I'm not talking about having as many skyscrapers as Chicago or Atlanta. Just a couple more sizeable ones to fill the gaps. There were a good half-dozen skyscrapers in planning stages for Indy in late 80s/early 90s, that probably would have come to fruition if tax laws hadn't changed to no longer allow shelters in commercial real estate esp highrises. Imagine how different dt would have looked. One can dream...

It is generally true that Paris is not a city of highrises, but La Defense is very close and provides the city with a major skyscraper district. Also, Paris does have some tall buildings, too.

Yes, La Defense is not within the city limits; however, it is only a little over 4 miles from the Eiffel Tower or a little over 6 miles from the Louvre. And the outer edges of La Defense are pretty much indistinguishable from the immediately adjoining Parisian neighborhood. Paris proper only covers about 41 square miles, so you don't need to go far to go outside the city limits. In other words, La Defense is not some far-flung suburb.

And, as mentioned, Paris does have tall buildings within the city limits. Of course, there is the infamous Tour Maine Montparnasse office building standing at 689 feet in Montparnasse. However, there are also several residential and commercial highrises, mainly in the outer neighborhoods (e.g. the 13th, 15th and 19th Arrondissements).

You can walk around in Paris for days and not see a single high rise. I've done it. They're all on the outskirts, and barely visible from the true Paris.

If I remember correctly you also would like to see the CCB torn down, and replaced with a much more horizontal development. Great idea. Let's make the skyline even smaller. :ohno::ohno::ohno::ohno:

I'm not talking about having as many skyscrapers as Chicago or Atlanta. Just a couple more sizeable ones to fill the gaps. There were a good half-dozen skyscrapers in planning stages for Indy in late 80s/early 90s, that probably would have come to fruition if tax laws hadn't changed to no longer allow shelters in commercial real estate esp highrises. Imagine how different dt would have looked. One can dream...

I can imagine that easily. It would be exactly how it looked in the late 80s or so: nothing but offices and parking lots, a ghost town after 5 pm.

I love Georgia Street but I still don't quite get why we didn't just use traditional curbs rather than bollards. It seems like curbs would have been a more elegant solution.

From a mass email from Melissa Thompson, Georgia Street manager, IDI

------
I wanted to make you aware of an important Georgia Street parking update. Based on feedback we have received from many Georgia Street and Wholesale District representatives, IDI is working with IMPD and City DPW to eliminate metered parking on Georgia Street. The center block will still allow for designated motorcycle and electric vehicle parking. IMPD has posted signs and will be begin ticketing tomorrow morning. This will also help minimize the bollard and landscape damage. and West Blocks.

------

Living outside of Indianapolis, i always appreciate when people post photos on this forum, so in return, i figured I would post photos from my recent trip to your great City. I have posted many photos to other individual threads, but you can click the link below to see all of them at once.

There is a decent combination of my own adventures with friends while touring the City via the Cultural Trail, but also of many development sites that i know all of you can appreciate. Enjoy!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/k2h/sets/72157629674334486/

I don't like high rises in Indy and I'm not afraid to say it. I wish the city had kept its height ordinance back in the 1960's.

The problem isn't with skyscrapers. The problem is that Indianapolis has no transit system like they do in NYC, Chicago, or SF that allows high rises to be built without parking. This means that in Indianapolis every high rise requires a large parking pedestal for huge amounts of car parking. This means that, like the AUL building, a single high rise can take up an entire block, which really is less dense than it might appear. It is also profoundly anti-urban. (Even Chicago suffers from this effect in its residential high rises).

Far better off is mid-rise where parking can be entirely self contained in the building and does not result in an anti-urban design. Keep in mind that cities like Paris and Barcelona are nearly uniformly 8-10 stories, yet are much more dense than any US city apart from New York.

I love this response and completely agree. Tall buildings don't make a dense city, nor should they be required. If poeple will recall the 'tower in the park' concepts from the middle part of the last century. For instance, the Barton Tower or Lugar Tower. If Indy had kept a height restriction, we could have less superblock parking lots and gaps of activity. Imagine a Mass Ave appeal along the city roads instead of the NW quad.......

I love Georgia Street but I still don't quite get why we didn't just use traditional curbs rather than bollards. It seems like curbs would have been a more elegant solution.

I suspect that the purpose was to avoid trip hazards when the street is closed for festivals. Although during Super Bowl week, the bollards were a hazard too because of the density of people.

I don't like high rises in Indy and I'm not afraid to say it. I wish the city had kept its height ordinance back in the 1960's.

The problem isn't with skyscrapers. The problem is that Indianapolis has no transit system like they do in NYC, Chicago, or SF that allows high rises to be built without parking. This means that in Indianapolis every high rise requires a large parking pedestal for huge amounts of car parking. This means that, like the AUL building, a single high rise can take up an entire block, which really is less dense than it might appear. It is also profoundly anti-urban. (Even Chicago suffers from this effect in its residential high rises).

Far better off is mid-rise where parking can be entirely self contained in the building and does not result in an anti-urban design. Keep in mind that cities like Paris and Barcelona are nearly uniformly 8-10 stories, yet are much more dense than any US city apart from New York.

I love this response and completely agree. Tall buildings don't make a dense city, nor should they be required. If poeple will recall the 'tower in the park' concepts from the middle part of the last century. For instance, the Barton Tower or Lugar Tower. If Indy had kept a height restriction, we could have less superblock parking lots and gaps of activity. Imagine a Mass Ave appeal along the city roads instead of the NW quad.......

Guys, this is a design problem, not an inherent problem with tall buildings or parking pedestals.

Exhibit 1: The Loop. No one would accuse The Loop of having dead streets. They wrap the parking structure with retail or office at street level.

Exhibit 2: Indy's own Test Building. Most people probably don't realize that the "office building" with ground-floor retail/office space at the SW corner of Market and Monument Circle is really a midrise parking structure...and an historic one at that.

Exhibit 3: Indy's "bank towers", Chase and INB/Regions. Even though they have pedestal arcades, they are not inherently pedestrian-unfriendly. They are downtown buildings, built out to the ROW. Plenty of space for pedestrians, few curb cuts, ground-floor transparency and activity. I admit that they are not great city buildings at street level, but they are head and shoulders better than AUL and the Merchants/Key/PNC Plaza, their respective contemporaries.

There really is nothing wrong with towers and integrated parking downtown. That is, in fact, encouraged in the Regional Center guidelines. I agree that "towers in a park", superblock developments like Riley Towers that block up the urban street grid needlessly, and AUL with its huge suburban setbacks and huge swath of suburban surface parking are grave urban design sins.

I admit to a personal bias. My favorite urban view in Indy is from the top deck of the parking garage on the east side of North Illinois north of market Tower, where one is surrounded by tall buildings with a view across Wellpoint's offices to the Monument. The garage is kind of ugly, but it does have ground floor commercial...including the suburban villain CVS.

As if I ever needed a reminder that a great number of the posters in this thread, if not the majority of them are anti-high-rise.

Living outside of Indianapolis, i always appreciate when people post photos on this forum, so in return, i figured I would post photos from my recent trip to your great City. I have posted many photos to other individual threads, but you can click the link below to see all of them at once.

There is a decent combination of my own adventures with friends while touring the City via the Cultural Trail, but also of many development sites that i know all of you can appreciate. Enjoy!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/k2h/sets/72157629674334486/

You captured some great shots of Indy! Thanks for posting them here.

As if I ever needed a reminder that a great number of the posters in this thread, if not the majority of them are anti-high-rise.

I think there would be fewer against, if there was a good transit system here that limited the need for huge parking lots that come with them. That is my personal feeling.

I can imagine that easily. It would be exactly how it looked in the late 80s or so: nothing but offices and parking lots, a ghost town after 5 pm.

Wait...we would have completely abandoned all our other dt development had we built those other skyscrapers?! Completely illogical. :bash:i

As if I ever needed a reminder that a great number of the posters in this thread, if not the majority of them are anti-high-rise.

I doubt there is a single person here who is anti high rise.

Living outside of Indianapolis, i always appreciate when people post photos on this forum, so in return, i figured I would post photos from my recent trip to your great City. I have posted many photos to other individual threads, but you can click the link below to see all of them at once.

There is a decent combination of my own adventures with friends while touring the City via the Cultural Trail, but also of many development sites that i know all of you can appreciate. Enjoy!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/k2h/sets/72157629674334486/

I felt like I went on a 4 hour riding tour with your pictures. Some seriously good pictures here. I'll be up in Indy next Saturday through the 30th.

So how many gigs were all these photos? I've been looking for 20 minutes and still have more to go.

Wait...we would have completely abandoned all our other dt development had we built those other skyscrapers?! Completely illogical. :bash:i

Yep. Everything else would have been demolished to make way for parking facilities to serve all these skyscrapers.

I don't think anybody here hates high-rises, but if they come at the expense of urban density and vitality, then I would say we don't want them.

I like highrises, not happy however with what has come down, but I am on a skyscraper site. Go figure.

LOL, I know I'm not being fair in saying that. However, at times I feel that there are more arguments made against high-rise than for it. I would love to see the blocks of parking gone and do love a lot of the new development we are seeing. At the same time I don't want to see the D/T covered with 5-6 floor buildings. I would like to see some variation in height, and more tall constuction away from the core of D/T (The Pile). Although I have no height limits I would actually like to see some more of what I suppose would be called mid-rise development in the area. Something in the 12-20 floor range would be nice.
On another note, I'm the type of person that wants it all, and I want it NOW!! I know that is not realistic so, when I throw out those petulant little one-liners: Read it with that little grain of salt in mind. However, I will say that there many intangible benefits that high-rise contruction brings to a community that are not covered in an ROI or cost/benefit analysis.

Thanks very much k2h for all of the fantastic photos of downtown Indy. Hope you had a great time while in town. Maybe (hopefully) the next time you are back there will be fewer orange barrels as the Cultural Trail will be finished. Hopefully though there will also be plenty of new projects to see down the road - although they will probably have their own new sets of barrels and barricades. Its nice to see the mix of urbanity and greenery in so many of your pictures. Lots of bicyclists everywhere too!

Gotta admit, I didn't ever think I'd see Ben called a conservative.

I think he's right. Cities can still achieve great density with midrises. With our city's poor transit, the taller the building, the more cars that are needed to transport people to those buildings.

ha! i love tall buildings, but we need to focus on making our city livable first... i'm obviously all for better mass-transit, but there is no reason to build any more high-rises in Indy in the near future.. especially if they aren't going to interact at street level.

You can walk around in Paris for days and not see a single high rise. I've done it. They're all on the outskirts, and barely visible from the true Paris.

Mooch, not to start an argument, but I have been to Paris, too. I never said there were highrises in the historic center of Paris. There are no skyscrapers around Notre Dame, or anything like that. But, you can certainly see highrises from Paris. Just look straight down the Champs Elysees from the L'Arc de Triomphe and you will see the very tall looming skyline of La Defense. Also, the Tour Montparnasse is within the city limits, and it is certainly visible from many parts of Paris, which is why it upsets many Parisians because it is not a very attractive building.

Also, in my original post, I said there are many residential highrises mainly in the outer Arrondissements (the outer neighborhoods), these neighborhoods are all within the true city limits of Paris, they are not within the suburbs. However, they are not in the very center of Paris.

My point was that when people say there are no highrises in Paris, they actually mean there are no highrises within the historic center of Paris. Paris is not quite like Washington, DC where there really are no highrises within the city limits.

LOL, I know I'm not being fair in saying that. However, at times I feel that there are more arguments made against high-rise than for it. I would love to see the blocks of parking gone and do love a lot of the new development we are seeing. At the same time I don't want to see the D/T covered with 5-6 floor buildings. I would like to see some variation in height, and more tall constuction away from the core of D/T (The Pile). Although I have no height limits I would actually like to see some more of what I suppose would be called mid-rise development in the area. Something in the 12-20 floor range would be nice.
On another note, I'm the type of person that wants it all, and I want it NOW!! I know that is not realistic so, when I throw out those petulant little one-liners: Read it with that little grain of salt in mind. However, I will say that there many intangible benefits that high-rise contruction brings to a community that are not covered in an ROI or cost/benefit analysis.

I agree, good post! Wonder how long it will be before another highrise hotel gets built? I like 'em.

[QUOTE=kangaroo1;91352139]Mooch, not to start an argument, but I have been to Paris, too. I never said there were highrises in the historic center of Paris. There are no skyscrapers around Notre Dame, or anything like that. But, you can certainly see highrises from Paris. Just look straight down the Champs Elysees from the L'Arc de Triomphe and you will see the very tall looming skyline of La Defense. Also, the Tour Montparnasse is within the city limits, and it is certainly visible from many parts of Paris, which is why it upsets many Parisians because it is not a very attractive building.


I just thought I would look and found this on wikipedia. Interesting image where there are a descent number of highrises but they are out a few miles. The image must have been taken with a telephoto lense making them look closer than they actually are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paris_-_Eiffelturm_und_Marsfeld2.jpg

[QUOTE=kangaroo1;91352139]Mooch, not to start an argument, but I have been to Paris, too. I never said there were highrises in the historic center of Paris. There are no skyscrapers around Notre Dame, or anything like that. But, you can certainly see highrises from Paris. Just look straight down the Champs Elysees from the L'Arc de Triomphe and you will see the very tall looming skyline of La Defense. Also, the Tour Montparnasse is within the city limits, and it is certainly visible from many parts of Paris, which is why it upsets many Parisians because it is not a very attractive building.


I just thought I would look and found this on wikipedia. Interesting image where there are a descent number of highrises but they are out a few miles. The image must have been taken with a telephoto lense making them look closer than they actually are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paris_-_Eiffelturm_und_Marsfeld2.jpg

I've seen that pic before. It look like it was taken from the top of the ferris wheel next to the Louvre and zoomed in like crazy. There isn't much of a reason to cross the river Seine from that vantage point unless to visit the eiffel tower. It's all sprawly open areas with huge sidewalkless streets from the Eiffel Tower to the buildings. I'm not the expert, but I think that from that vantage point on, there's some pretty terrible urban design.

When you're on ground level you really can't see much of the towers unless you're really looking. They definitely don't have much of a presence in Paris.

edit - I found an interesting article on the subject. Apparently Paris may be getting some talls sometime in the near future.:

http://www.treehugger.com/sustainable-product-design/newly-freed-from-height-limits-paris-skyline-ready-to-rise.html

Newly Freed from Height Limits, Paris Skyline Ready to Rise

One of the striking things about Paris is that, for a major city whose metropolitan area includes nearly 12 million people, there are very few buildings more than five or six stories tall.

Since 1977, soon after the construction of the 689 foot tall Tour Montparnasse, a building that sticks out like a sore thumb and is widely disliked by Parisians, there has been a height limit of 121 feet on all new buildings. (The Eiffel Tower, at 1,063 feet, is by far the tallest structure in the city.) But on Tuesday, Le Monde reported, the Paris City Council voted to raise the height limit to a revolutionary 590 feet, meaning that in the next few years, the Paris skyline will have a growth spurt

That's not to say that private developers will now be allowed to run wild, or that Paris will become the new Dubai. The City Council's decision was aimed at the 13th arrondissement, in southeast Paris, where apartment buildings as tall as 150 feet and office buildings up to 590 feet will now be allowed. The new buildings will also play a role in the City Council's hotly contested program to build more subsidized housing.

The decision is in keeping with the new urban philosophy of "building Paris on Paris". Anne Hidalgo, the Socialist Party deputy responsible for city planning, told Le Monde that the revised height limits reflect new thinking on the issue of a "dense, enduring city." But not everyone's on board- and some of the arguments against are environmental.

Yves Contassot, the French Green Party representative for the 13th arrondissement, voiced his party's dissent: "A tower is not eco, to build it requires an enormous amount of energy compared to a traditional building." He argued that the enormous amount of energy needed just to get people and water to the upper floors is five or six times more than that allotted by the "plan climat," the set of environmental protocols France adopted several years ago. Contassot added that the skyscraper as an architectural form is "passé."

But on the flip side of the coin is that taller buildings mean increased urban density, which means less suburban sprawl, certainly a good thing. Only 2 million of the Paris metro area's nearly 12 million residents live within the city's limits, undoubtedly because the previously strict height limits on buildings kept the number of city dwellers low as well. But is simply building (much) taller buildings the best answer to Paris' sprawl problem? Probably not- tackling the issue is more about careful and informed planning than building eco-tours. Ultimately, Lloyd reminds us, the greenest brick is the one that's already in the wall.

But whether or not towers of previously unseen heights are going to make Paris a greener place, they're coming. Two more also slated for construction outside the 13th arrondissement: the Triangle Tower (rendering below) in the 15th should open in 2015, and the 17th will soon welcome a 600 foot tall courthouse. Currently, skyscrapers are relegated to La Défense, the business district just to the west of the city that is home to 14 buildings taller than 490 feet.

But while the changed height limits will bring plenty of new buildings to Paris, don't expect to see the core of the city change in the next few years- all of the newly proposed towers are set to be built on the outskirts of the city. For now, the Champs-Elysées will maintain its historic look, the Tour Montparnasse will continue to stick out, and the Eiffel Tower's reign will go unchallenged.

Far better off is mid-rise where parking can be entirely self contained in the building and does not result in an anti-urban design. Keep in mind that cities like Paris and Barcelona are nearly uniformly 8-10 stories, yet are much more dense than any US city apart from New York.

I would say that Amsterdam would be a better example than Paris or Barcelona. Both those are surrounded by sprawl, possibly partly as a result of height limitations in the old city. Barcelona in particular has some truly crappy 20+ story residential towers surrounded by parking lots, think Riley Towers or worse, near the train stations. I've seen them and was surprised they were allowed in such a beautiful city.

Amsterdam however, is smaller in size than Indy, but has a similar population size with very little sprawl. I doubt there is a building taller than 5 stories anywhere in the city limits. Granted, there are some obvious reasons for that..

Moochie: "Barcelona in particular has some truly crappy 20+ story residential towers surrounded by parking lots, think Riley Towers or worse, ...."

I think Riley Towers is fairly cool and is a nice representative of 1960's high rise apartment design. It has a parking garage that is built into the structures. From the east side - along Alabama Street - The Towers look pretty good I think. Lots of greenery. Some courtyard-style areas. You can see the weight rooms for the residents. The swimming pool is set back from the street - as is the tennis court. There used to be a restaurant and a little store in the middle of the complex. Not sure what is in those areas now.

From the west side it is not as good looking -- of course it runs up against the Alley to the west of Alabama Street. If there were better, more dense development along the east side of Delaware Street - you wouldn't be able to see the uglier, "back" side of the complex.

Its not anything fantastic -- but I do think its great to have a couple of 30 story residential towers downtown and a fifteen story tower next to it. Sure - it could look a little better and have a better, more interactive street presence along Alabama -- but, like I said above -- it serves as a pretty good example of a 1960's high rise apartment building - and I think its great that it has kept a pretty high occupance rate of its 500 units for 50 years!

I like the look and feel of Riley Towers from the street. I think the original plan called for more, maybe nine, of them. The architectural and planning sad thing is the adjacent Renaisance Place. Whatever the benefit of the quick sale of those clones in, I think, the early 80s, it was not worth it.

Definitely in total agreement on Renaissance Place. Low rise suburbia on three blocks downtown between St. Joseph and Chatham Arch. 120 units spread out over three blocks. Not only is the density pretty bad -- but the design is quite blah too. I think Mike Brady must have received the architectural commission after leaving the Brady Bunch in 1975.

Worth a read: http://crosscut.com/2012/05/13/real-estate/108534/citiwire-density-without-hi-rises/

Indy still a Bronze level city in 2012 Bike League ratings
http://www.bikeleague.org/programs/bicyclefriendlyamerica/communities/pdfs/BFC%20Master%20List%20Spring2012.pdf

Bloomington got a silver. A number of other smaller towns in Indiana got bronze level as well.

^^ Excellent piece. Thanks for posting it Arenn. A bunch more 5 - 15 story mixed use structures throughout the central core will be a great way to fill in Central Indianapolis. There still is plenty of room for ten or more well designed, street-front-appropriate 20 - 40+ story buildings in the core of the CBD as well - within 6 - 7 blocks of the Circle. In the outlying areas around the CBD - the 5 - 15 story infill would work very well to continue increasing the density while maintaining and improving the street life. That's what I'd like to see. Improved transit with several downtown circulators and well-maintained bikeways would be two other keys to improving the livability of Central Indianapolis.

Definitely in total agreement on Renaissance Place. Low rise suburbia on three blocks downtown between St. Joseph and Chatham Arch. 120 units spread out over three blocks. Not only is the density pretty bad -- but the design is quite blah too. I think Mike Brady must have received the architectural commission after leaving the Brady Bunch in 1975.
Design atrocious, yes, but the density actually isn't that low for Indy. It's 120 units on about 12 acres, or about 10 DUA.

We could only WISH the rest of Indy were that dense. Most of the single family neighborhoods in Indy are in the range of 4-6 DUA. In the whole city, only St. Joseph, Lockerbie Square and the Canal are probably denser than Renaissance Place.

Improved transit with several downtown circulators and well-maintained bikeways would be two other keys to improving the livability of Central Indianapolis.

Very happy to read this :-)

Observed on Cutural Trail --
A. DPW trash truck picking up contents of new trash AND recycling containers at same time, at Washington and Meridian and at Alabama and about Ohio. When I spoke to the driver he responded, yes, his truck had two compartments, so a lie.

B. Bleachers for 500 Festival parade on the C T in first block of East Washington.

C. Not yet seen, but May is the month to paint corner curbs and other no-parking curbs bright yellow -- so it could be happening soon to new C T curbs, which will be ugly. The yellow curbs need to go away everywhere. Some older C T curbs were painted yellow last year. And, recently, painters have been adjudicated people and not professional painters.

City’s final tab for hosting Super Bowl: $1 million

The city’s final tab to host the Super Bowl in February came to $1 million, tourism leaders said Monday afternoon.

That’s $200,000 more than originally budgeted by the Capital Improvement Board of Managers of Marion County, the entity that operates Lucas Oil Stadium and the city's other downtown sports venues.

But CIB and city tourism leaders said on Monday that the money was well spent considering the game could translate to $300 million in direct visitor spending over the next several years.

“There’s no question in my mind that the Super Bowl generated interest in Indianapolis,” said Leonard Hoops, CEO of the Indianapolis Convention & Visitors Association.

In the first quarter of 2012, the ICVA logged interest in 998,000 room nights for future conventions, a whopping 156-percent increase from the same time last year. If the city wins enough conventions over the next 10 years to fill a third of those room nights, it should capture the additional $300 million in visitor spending, Hoops said.

Link to the IBJ story here:

http://www.ibj.com/city-s-final-tab-for-super-bowl---1-million/PARAMS/article/34414

Does anyone know if "they" are going to turn on the fountains at Monument Circle anytime soon? Its been beautiful weather for quite a while now. If I remember correctly, it was down all of last Summer while Lady Victory was taken down and cleaned. If something needed to be fixed withh the plumbing for the fountains, they should have done that last year as well. I'll be more than aggravated if they are down all summer again. Blue water looks so much better than dry, gray limestone.

btw -- what ever happened to the plans for the "re-do" of the Circle? They made a big deal about it a year and a half ago - and now I haven't heard anything since. I thought IDI was supposed to be working on new programming and special events and activities down there. In my opinion, it seems like things around the Circle have been moving in the wrong direction as opposed to seeing improvements.

I think Riley Towers is fairly cool and is a nice representative of 1960's high rise apartment design. It has a parking garage that is built into the structures. From the east side - along Alabama Street - The Towers look pretty good I think. Lots of greenery. Some courtyard-style areas. You can see the weight rooms for the residents. The swimming pool is set back from the street - as is the tennis court. There used to be a restaurant and a little store in the middle of the complex. Not sure what is in those areas now.

From the west side it is not as good looking -- of course it runs up against the Alley to the west of Alabama Street. If there were better, more dense development along the east side of Delaware Street - you wouldn't be able to see the uglier, "back" side of the complex.

Its not anything fantastic -- but I do think its great to have a couple of 30 story residential towers downtown and a fifteen story tower next to it. Sure - it could look a little better and have a better, more interactive street presence along Alabama -- but, like I said above -- it serves as a pretty good example of a 1960's high rise apartment building - and I think its great that it has kept a pretty high occupance rate of its 500 units for 50 years!

IMO the only real issue with Riley Towers is the interruption of the street grid. There was no real reason to cut off Walnut and Hudson around the development.

I saw the bleachers on the Cultural Trail too. They should have put them in the parking lane. Closing about six or seven car parking spaces for about three weeks makes a lot more sense than completely blocking the bike lanes.

Cars can park in tens of thousands of other places. This is the only Cultural Trail route and it really messes things up for a lot of people who will be out riding around on the trail during the next few weeks - which pretty much are the biggest weeks of the year for Indy to attract race fans, visitors and other tourists. This needs to be changed soon. I hope someone at the CT offices will be taking care of this immediately.

Cmon guys, its for the cars! Tradition! Indy 500! Who cares about bikes anyway?

#facepalm

I saw the bleachers on the Cultural Trail too. They should have put them in the parking lane. Closing about six or seven car parking spaces for about three weeks makes a lot more sense than completely blocking the bike lanes.

Cars can park in tens of thousands of other places. This is the only Cultural Trail route and it really messes things up for a lot of people who will be out riding around on the trail during the next few weeks - which pretty much are the biggest weeks of the year for Indy to attract race fans, visitors and other tourists. This needs to be changed soon. I hope someone at the CT offices will be taking care of this immediately.

Yabut...the city or 500 Festival would have to pay the parking-meter operator a bag fee for each one of those spaces. The CT is "free" parking for their bleachers.

The consolation is that Indy's parking meter lease isn't as bad as Chicago's.

The consolation is that Indy's parking meter lease isn't as bad as Chicago's.

That isn't much consolation to me.

That's like saying, well both of my dogs died, but at least only one of them suffered...

I don't care if the city has to pay for seven parking spaces to be bagged for three weeks. They bag them all over the place for much poorer reasons. Here's my guesstimate of what it might cost to pay for the spaces to be made unavailable:

Each space can potentially earn 16 hours worth of payments of $1.50 per hour -- or $24 per day.

Seven spaces at $24 per day = $168 per day.

Three weeks = 21 days, 21 x $168 = $3,528

I'm not sure what the payment rate is for bagged meters. It is probably less than what I estimated -- which assumrd that the spaces will all be filled for the entire time possible. There also may not even be 7 spaces there - there may only be about 5 or six. So basically the number above is the maximum the city might have to pay.

About $3500! The city should definitely pay this small amount instead of closing off a block of the Cultural Trail for three prime weeks.

I don't care if the city has to pay for seven parking spaces to be bagged for three weeks. They bag them all over the place for much poorer reasons. Here's my guesstimate of what it might cost to pay for the spaces to be made unavailable:

Each space can potentially earn 16 hours worth of payments of $1.50 per hour -- or $24 per day.

Seven spaces at $24 per day = $168 per day.

Three weeks = 21 days, 21 x $168 = $3,528

I'm not sure what the payment rate is for bagged meters. It is probably less than what I estimated -- which assumrd that the spaces will all be filled for the entire time possible. There also may not even be 7 spaces there - there may only be about 5 or six. So basically the number above is the maximum the city might have to pay.

About $3500! The city should definitely pay this small amount instead of closing off a block of the Cultural Trail for three prime weeks.

Suggest you submit this to the Mayor's Action Center.

I apologize ahead of time for the bleachers along Washington Street. I am an adult leader with a Boy Scout troop that has regularly had that section (Section 13 along the parade route) for the 500 Parade. I had wondered what would happen when the Cultural Trail was built alongside Washington Street what that would do with the parade route, now I know. I would have just been fine with having chairs set up along the street. In that vain, people will usually fill up the gaps between the street and what was then the sidewalk with their own fold-up chairs to watch the parade without a ticket (which is legal.) If I have the chance to help out with the parade again this year, I will make an effort to not have my own chair along the Cultural Trail, so that at least I won't be blocking the trail, symbolically.

Wow.. I just now remembered working putting up and taking down folding chairs in that area once as a Boy Scout. That was a thousand years ago.. Troop 125, St. Philip Neri. We were considered the ghetto scout troop.

I apologize ahead of time for the bleachers along Washington Street. I am an adult leader with a Boy Scout troop that has regularly had that section (Section 13 along the parade route) for the 500 Parade. I had wondered what would happen when the Cultural Trail was built alongside Washington Street what that would do with the parade route, now I know. I would have just been fine with having chairs set up along the street. In that vain, people will usually fill up the gaps between the street and what was then the sidewalk with their own fold-up chairs to watch the parade without a ticket (which is legal.) If I have the chance to help out with the parade again this year, I will make an effort to not have my own chair along the Cultural Trail, so that at least I won't be blocking the trail, symbolically.

I wouldn't mind if people happen to set up their chairs on the Cultural Trail during the day of the parade. Its one thing to use the space where the trail is for that short time while the parade is getting set up and then happening -- but at least everyone can pick up their chairs afterward and walk home with them. They are basically using the trail for five or six hours - during a time when the whole area will be extremely crowded and the trail will not be able to be used for cycling anyway. Five hours is one thing - three weeks covered with bleachers is another. I'll discuss the issue with the neighborhood liaison for that area - and possibly also with the Cultural Trail director.

Moochie: "Barcelona in particular has some truly crappy 20+ story residential towers surrounded by parking lots, think Riley Towers or worse, ...."

I think Riley Towers is fairly cool and is a nice representative of 1960's high rise apartment design. It has a parking garage that is built into the structures. From the east side - along Alabama Street - The Towers look pretty good I think. Lots of greenery. Some courtyard-style areas. You can see the weight rooms for the residents. The swimming pool is set back from the street - as is the tennis court. There used to be a restaurant and a little store in the middle of the complex. Not sure what is in those areas now.

From the west side it is not as good looking -- of course it runs up against the Alley to the west of Alabama Street. If there were better, more dense development along the east side of Delaware Street - you wouldn't be able to see the uglier, "back" side of the complex.

Its not anything fantastic -- but I do think its great to have a couple of 30 story residential towers downtown and a fifteen story tower next to it. Sure - it could look a little better and have a better, more interactive street presence along Alabama -- but, like I said above -- it serves as a pretty good example of a 1960's high rise apartment building - and I think its great that it has kept a pretty high occupance rate of its 500 units for 50 years!

I so miss living there. Awesome views!

I so miss living there. Awesome views!

ok damnit.. maybe I've been too harsh on Riley Towers, and truth be known I'd love for them to be on Market Street next to me.

Riley Tower apartments also have the best balconies! I love that they are cantilevered out so they have great panoramic views. Now all that gets built are inset balconies with a single railing; which might as well just be big windows...

I'm moving into a Riley studio in a couple months. I'm facing north, which is arguably the worst view to have, but I'm still very much looking forward to it!

I was on the 16th floor of Tower 1, NW apartment. I could see the Pepsi Coliseum, the Pyramids, planes landing and taking off from the airport, and my favorite watching the July 4th fireworks from One Indiana Square. I moved there in June of 94. My first night there a thunderstorm rolled through with vivid lightning. It was quite a rush. The balconies were neat as long as it wasn't real windy.

I was on the 16th floor of Tower 1, NW apartment. I could see the Pepsi Coliseum, the Pyramids, planes landing and taking off from the airport, and my favorite watching the July 4th fireworks from One Indiana Square. I moved there in June of 94. My first night there a thunderstorm rolled through with vivid lightning. It was quite a rush. The balconies were neat as long as it wasn't real windy.

I apologize for taking this thread in a morbid direction...

Are there many known suicides or accidental deaths from the Riley Towers balconies? I ask because years ago I witnessed a guy threatening to jump from the 20th floor or so while walking by. (the police took care of it) I have this terrible morbid fascination with structures that attract more suicides than others.

I personally knew someone who jumped from the top of the Hyatt Atrium, and I understand that it happens there with some frequency, at least one suicide every few years. This was when I was a little boy, so I'm guessing that's the reason for my "affliction". Atriums in general tend to have this problem.. I suppose people like to off themselves in air conditioned comfort..

One of the reasons I made time when I was in San Fran a few years ago to cross the Golden Gate Bridge on foot is because 20 or so suicides occur there annually..

It's a dark fascination I have I know.... I just like to go to those places and try to understand what might be in those poor souls heads, and imagine how difficult it must be to actually jump. The weird thing is that I feel drawn to these places, and after I go, I can't honestly say that I enjoyed the trip.. but I still feel drawn.

Had lunch at B's PoBoy restaurant today. It just opened a few days ago and is located immediately south of the Brass Ring in Fountain Square. I had the fried oyster Po-Boy. DELICIOUS!! I eat PoBoy sandwiches quite at bit at Papa Roux in the city market - so I knew going in that B's would have a tough time meeting up with the high standards of Papa Roux's sandwiches.

It was very good. The sandwiches are a little different from Papa Roux. They have two sizes: 6" and 9". The 6" is smaller than the huge sandwiches at Papa Roux but it made for a nice meal with the side of cole slaw that I ordered. The bread is a light, crispy French bread and was very good. They also have a whole bunch of different beers on tap - some local brews and some from further away - such as Abita from Lousiana. They have bocce courts outside - which a few people were already playing on went I stopped in a little after 11:00 this morning.

Its another nice addition to Fountain Square - and I'd say overall the sandwich I had can hold its own against Papa Roux.

Moochie: I've heard about the occasional jumper at the Hyatt atrium -- but I haven't heard of anyone jumping from Riley Towers. If they did it must not have gotten much publicity because I have never heard of anything like that happening in almost 30 years of living in this city.

I seem to recall someone jumping off with a parachute a couple years ago, but I may be thinking of another structure...

Ive walked the Golden Gate but it didnt have anything to do with suicide fascination. Just a damn cool structure and one I wrote a paper on in grade school. It was an early-in-life strike off of the bucket list.

I seem to recall someone jumping off with a parachute a couple years ago, but I may be thinking of another structure...

Ive walked the Golden Gate but it didnt have anything to do with suicide fascination. Just a damn cool structure and one I wrote a paper on in grade school. It was an early-in-life strike off of the bucket list.

The parachute was One Indiana Square. No jumpers at Riley that I'm aware of. It took me a few months before I was comfortable being on that balcony. I would get white-knuckled holding the railings on windy days.

Moochie: I've heard about the occasional jumper at the Hyatt atrium -- but I haven't heard of anyone jumping from Riley Towers. If they did it must not have gotten much publicity because I have never heard of anything like that happening in almost 30 years of living in this city.

To be fair, most if not all of the local stations have a "no covering suicide" policy, unless it somehow widely affects the general public (ie, gunman aiming at others, etc.)

But still, I also haven't heard of anyone jumping from Riley, either.

I'll be in the 24th story of the south tower in June. But it's a balcony-less unit, sadly, facing north.

Ok, this must be a dumb question with a simple answer that someone here can provide: Why in the world do bleachers need to sit anywhere for three weeks to accommodate a one-day event?

News from the northside.

62nd street multiuse trail construction well underway
http://www.urbanindy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/62nd_street_trail_5182012.jpg

62nd street multiuse trail construction well underway

Drove by last weekend and noticed that in a couple of cases, owners had landscaped well out into the ROW and their improvements might be sacrificed for the trail.

Ok, this must be a dumb question with a simple answer that someone here can provide: Why in the world do bleachers need to sit anywhere for three weeks to accommodate a one-day event?

A crew works its way around the route doing the set-up, then afterwards, the tear-down. It's serial/sequential, not simultaneous.

The only suicide that I can recall D/T was when the woman jumped from the Regions Tower several years ago. I worked at the Teller's Cage on the top floor and remember talking to the manager about it, he had witnessed the whole thing. She had gone into the bathroom and he heard her messing with the window. By the time he and others had gotten in she was sitting on the window sill. He said she turned and said bye, and jumped. He they tried to grab her but it was too late. He told me that she lived for 11 minutes after she jumped. Chilling!! I never forgot the look on his face or the tone of his voice when he recounted that tragic story.

In regards to Riley Towers I don't ever recall anyone jumping and committing suicide there. However, I have heard several tales over the years of lone males sitting out on their balconies engaging in shall we say, self-manipulation? Nothing wrong with that at all just be certain that you don't mind an audience. LOL

The only suicide that I can recall D/T was when the woman jumped from the Regions Tower several years ago. I worked at the Teller's Cage on the top floor and remember talking to the manager about it, he had witnessed the whole thing. She had gone into the bathroom and he heard her messing with the window. By the time he and others had gotten in she was sitting on the window sill. He said she turned and said bye, and jumped. He they tried to grab her but it was too late. He told me that she lived for 11 minutes after she jumped. Chilling!! I never forgot the look on his face or the tone of his voice when he recounted that tragic story.

When I started working security in OIS in 1995 I heard something similar. The story told to me was that it was a field trip of some kind and they were having a tour of the Observation Deck on the 36th floor. This young woman took a chair, busted out the window and jumped.

In regards to Riley Towers I don't ever recall anyone jumping and committing suicide there. However, I have heard several tales over the years of lone males sitting out on their balconies engaging in shall we say, self-manipulation? Nothing wrong with that at all just be certain that you don't mind an audience. LOL

For the record I never witnessed that. I did like to watch a lady in Tower 2 sunbath topless all the time. :)

Whatever happened with that Litebox Company? No real updates on the Facebook page either.

For the record I never witnessed that. I did like to watch a lady in Tower 2 sunbath topless all the time. :)

I last talked to Bob in late March. They're having block parties in California testing prototypes apparently.. The utilities and such have been shut off at 146 E. Washington for awhile now, that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

I think Bob is sincerely trying to make a go of this, but it's been handled so poorly from every possible angle that unless he gets an investor who is willing to take the reigns, the inevitable collapse is imminent.. actually, not a collapse, it'll die with a wimper.

The only suicide? Hell, 2 people jumped from 2 different parking garages just last year. Don't you remember David Frisbee shooting up Barnes and Thornburg after strangling his wife and then shooting himself in the head as he jumped off the Merchants garage? A week earlier someone jumped from the top of one of the garages close to the One America tower.


The only suicide that I can recall D/T was when the woman jumped from the Regions Tower several years ago. I worked at the Teller's Cage on the top floor and remember talking to the manager about it, he had witnessed the whole thing. She had gone into the bathroom and he heard her messing with the window. By the time he and others had gotten in she was sitting on the window sill. He said she turned and said bye, and jumped. He they tried to grab her but it was too late. He told me that she lived for 11 minutes after she jumped. Chilling!! I never forgot the look on his face or the tone of his voice when he recounted that tragic story.

Whatever happened with that Litebox Company? No real updates on the Facebook page either.

ya i was curious too. Moochie do you have any updates on construction etc?

I seem to recall someone jumping off with a parachute a couple years ago, but I may be thinking of another structure...

Ive walked the Golden Gate but it didnt have anything to do with suicide fascination. Just a damn cool structure and one I wrote a paper on in grade school. It was an early-in-life strike off of the bucket list.


Yeah, walking the Golden Gate is a must! I loved it - the suicide boxes are a little fascinating, but I was more in love with the views and just the history of it all. I suffered my first "wind burn" while walking that damn thing!

As for Riley Towers, I love them! I think that they are iconic for Indy and are really a great asset to our skyline.

Yeah, walking the Golden Gate is a must! I loved it - the suicide boxes are a little fascinating, but I was more in love with the views and just the history of it all. I suffered my first "wind burn" while walking that damn thing!

As for Riley Towers, I love them! I think that they are iconic for Indy and are really a great asset to our skyline.

Yeah, the wind was so strong and loud that conversation was difficult at times. Equally interesting to me were the huge old WWII artillery and observation post installations surrounding the bay and the bridge, although the pee smell was a bit strong at times. I think they're homeless hotels at night.

ya i was curious too. Moochie do you have any updates on construction etc?

Nope, just a vague promise that it's all still going to happen. Bob claims to have a new Middle Eastern investor.. whatever that means.

I like the Riley Towers myself. I have included them when I compose photos of the area because I think they are picturesque. They arent terrible design, they just arent what we'd all call modern either.

As I was driving through downtown tonight, I noticed the painters were out re-painting the multiple rainbow colors on the lower level of the Federal Building along Pennsylvania Street. They are much brighter and cleaner looking now. It helps the building look sharper - especially at night when the brighter lights are shining on these newly painted colors.

I never thought these words would ever come out of my keyboard ... but, "wow -- they sure are moving quickly on getting the latest segment of the Cultural Trail done."

I was really surprised to see the new paver bricks going down already on the section of the trail along Virginia Avenue, just southeast of South Street. I hope they can keep this rate up with the remaining five or six blocks heading toward Fountain Square. It doesn't look like any work has started yet on the bridge segment over the interstate though. I'm guessing that'll probably be the last section to get done.

A crew works its way around the route doing the set-up, then afterwards, the tear-down. It's serial/sequential, not simultaneous.

Well, that is a logical and simple answer. I've always found it annoying to try to sidestep other pedestrians while walking around them for weeks while they take up 3/4 of the sidewalk, but I haven't had the occasion to deal with it this year. For a city that strives to have a vibrant downtown, I've always thought it was kinda odd that it was ok to obstruct the sidewalks for several weeks for a one day event. It's like we're admitting that our downtown isn't very busy, so we can leave the bleachers up for three weeks.

As I was driving through downtown tonight, I noticed the painters were out re-painting the multiple rainbow colors on the lower level of the Federal Building along Pennsylvania Street. They are much brighter and cleaner looking now. It helps the building look sharper - especially at night when the brighter lights are shining on these newly painted colors.

They're restoring the original colors. It's a project that's required a lot of research. There was an article about it months ago, I can't find it now.

They're installing fencing around the Bank One Ops Center project. They've also removed all Cultural Trail equipment and materials. It's nice to see movement over there. Time for a thread I suppose.

http://indianapolisparking.net/market.jpg

Speaking of fencing around construction sites: IU Health has taken down most of the fencing around the Neuroscience Center and IU has put fencing up around the SW corner of 16th/Senate where their Neuroscience Research Building is about to break ground.

Finally! ^^ Great to hear. (Edit -- referring to Moochie's post two above about the Bank One Ops situation.) I always felt kind of bad for the unsuspecting out of town guests staying at the La Quinta hotel across the street from that boarded-up mess of an abandoned building. Pretty much all of the other downtown hotels are in relatively nice areas - yet the La Quinta makes you feel like you are staying across the street from a bombed out ghetto in Baghdad. It'll be an 800% improvement to see this mess turned into 250+ higher end apartments.

Great to hear about the Neurosciences Project continuing to move ahead as well!

The Mozza project on Virginia Avenue seems to be moving along as well. Since the BMV building was torn down, the site has been completely leveled and graded and it now looks like they are beginning to dig the foundations / underground parking (or whatever is planned for the lower level).

For fun, here's a possible People Mover extension proposed in the recently updated IU/IU Health Master Plan:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s289/corrnd/PeopleMoverExtension.jpg

Here's another one proposed about a decade ago when Biocrossroads first got started:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s289/corrnd/random/pm_extension.jpg

I just recall that particular suicide because it was quite dramatic, and I had gotten an eyewitness account in regards to it.

No way I'd walk the Golden Gate, too cold!! I froze to death in San Francisco and was ready to go back to Seattle. Of course, I later found out July is not the best month to visit SF.

The People Mover route would become useful if IU health tore it down, put electrical light rail or streetcar in its place, and expanded.
More efficient.
More reliable.
More accessible.

Just my humble opinion of course. ;-)

Last time I was there (San Francisco) it was late September and the high temps were in the mid 80's. Very nice time to go.

First stage of $85M downtown project up for approval

(I'll post this under the "Block 400" thread as well.)

The first stage of a major $85 million downtown project anchored by a Marsh grocery store is up for consideration by the city on Thursday.

Indianapolis’ Regional Center Hearing Examiner is set to hear a request by local developer Flaherty & Collins Properties to build a five-story parking garage at the northwest corner of New York Street and Capitol Avenue.

The project, announced in January, calls for 487 apartments, the Marsh grocery store, the parking garage and additional retail space on properties bounded by Michigan Street, Capitol Avenue, Vermont Street and Indiana Avenue.

Overall, the project would replace a block and a half of surface parking lots owned by locally based OneAmerica Financial Partners Inc., which uses them for employee parking.

http://www.ibj.com/first-stage-of--85m-downtown-project-up-for-approval/PARAMS/article/34559

If anybody hasn't seen renderings, they're in the Regional Center Hearing Examiner staff report on p24-25. It's unbelievably monotonous. As generally well designed as Block 400 seems to be in early designs, it's mind boggling how atrocious this garage is.

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/Planning/Zoning/Documents/RC_HE/5-24-12rc_he.pdf

As bad as the Illinois facade is, I think I'm most disappointed that they don't have any retail on the Vermont frontage. Vermont is the most pedestrian-friendly street in the immediate area and that side will be very close to the residences at Block 400. Poor planning.

^^ I agree entirely. I think the Regional Center review process should demand that the garage not even touch Vermont Street. They should modify the garage to be seven or eight stories and it should go no more than three fourths of the way along the Illinois street side of the block. The northern quarter of the block should be reserved for future residential. Vermont is one of the most important pedestrian / residential streets in the Mile Square. It links IUPUI and much of the canal housing straight through the near north part of downtown, crossing Mass Avenue and ending up in Lockerbie Square. A seven story, gray parking garage fronting the core of Vermont Street is an absolute non-starter.

In the Indianapolis Regional Center Design Guidelines - under section SC3: Parking, it says: "All structured parking fronting on public pedestrian ways shall have the grade level designed to accommodate active uses that generate pedestrian activity, such as retail shops, restaurants, business services and offices." Vermont Street is pretty much the definition of a prime public pedestrian way. In the RC Guidelines, the area where the garage is proposed is considered part of the "Entertainment - Mixed Use" (EMU) district. In the EMU, this "guideline" for first floor retail is actually a requirement. There are several other required treatments for parking garages in the EMU district that also need to be followed. The best treatment however would be to keep the garage away from Vermont Street entirely.

Another alternative for the garage might be just to re-align it along New York Street. If they have to have a garage that takes up a half of a city block - they should keep it on the half block that is away from Vermont Street. I don't see why this shift in the alignment of the structure couldn't work. Is anyone thinking about going to the regional center hearing to be held on Thursday? I think it is time that the regional center guidelines were called into account.

In the Indianapolis Regional Center Design Guidelines - under section SC3: Parking, it says: "All structured parking fronting on public pedestrian ways shall have the grade level designed to accommodate active uses that generate pedestrian activity, such as retail shops, restaurants, business services and offices."

This requirement is listed in the staff report as "Satisfied" :ohno:

A perfect comparison point for this garage is the Circle Center garage on the west side of Illinois between Georgia and Maryland. It's essentially the exact same footprint with the exact same height and incorporates space for 5 (FIVE!) ground floor restaurants.

On a brighter note --- I had been getting aggravated that the fountains on Monument Circle have not been turned on yet this year. I wasn't sure what the problem was -- but was annoyed since they were off all of last Summer while "Lady Victory" was being rehabbed. I couldn't figure out why - with a year and a half to get ready - they couldn't be ready to turn them on right away this year. Just as I was about to call the War Memorials Commission - I saw that the fountain pools were being painted today.

I didn't ask the workers when the fountains would be turned on - but, since they're painting the fountain basins - I figured they must be getting ready to finally turn them on. Assuming all of the pipes are in good shape -- hopefully the paint will be dry in a day or two and - if we're lucky - maybe we'll have water in our Circle Fountains once again by Memorial Day. That would definitely make me happy.

This requirement is listed in the staff report as "Satisfied" :ohno:

Am I missing something? Looking at those drawings, it appears that the first floor has glass windows except on Capitol. This suggests office or retail to me.

edit - every drawing except the Capitol view has "potential first floor retail" written on it. If they build this thing, with the captive clientele of 1000+ parkers, coffee shops, lunch restaurants and perhaps a convenience store would do very well there. and really, they just need to build the bare bones storefronts. It's such a strong location that a retail shouldn't have a problem doing the buildouts themselves.

The fountains in front of the CCB also aren't on.. but the largest ones closest to the building are demolished and look like they're being replaced with flower beds. I can't honestly say I'm upset, those fountains were kind of unattractive and I'm sure expensive to maintain. My dog loved them though.

On a brighter note --- I had been getting aggravated that the fountains on Monument Circle have not been turned on yet this year. I wasn't sure what the problem was -- but was annoyed since they were off all of last Summer while "Lady Victory" was being rehabbed. I couldn't figure out why - with a year and a half to get ready - they couldn't be ready to turn them on right away this year. Just as I was about to call the War Memorials Commission - I saw that the fountain pools were being painted today.

I didn't ask the workers when the fountains would be turned on - but, since they're painting the fountain basins - I figured they must be getting ready to finally turn them on. Assuming all of the pipes are in good shape -- hopefully the paint will be dry in a day or two and - if we're lucky - maybe we'll have water in our Circle Fountains once again by Memorial Day. That would definitely make me happy.

Am I missing something? Looking at those drawings, it appears that the first floor has glass windows except on Capitol. This suggests office or retail to me.

edit - every drawing except the Capitol view has "potential first floor retail" written on it. If they build this thing, with the captive clientele of 1000+ parkers, coffee shops, lunch restaurants and perhaps a convenience store would do very well there. and really, they just need to build the bare bones storefronts. It's such a strong location that a retail shouldn't have a problem doing the buildouts themselves.
It's a sly rendering that's made to look like those are windows at ground level. If you read the fine print describing the material in those openings, it says "Bronze Metal Screen in Dark Bronze Aluminum Framing System." And if you look at the siteplan, retail is only proposed on the corner of Illinois/New York. If you then flip to the facades, "Potential First Floor Retail" is only written on that corner, with arrows specifically delineated that TINY space.

Here's what an earlier (and apparently shorter) rendering showed:

http://www.csoinc.net/sites/default/files/projects/slideshow/1/Exterior-OneAmGarage.jpg?1327525821

I can't get past the fact the city is actually paying to build this shitty thing.

The People Mover route would become useful if IU health tore it down, put electrical light rail or streetcar in its place, and expanded.
More efficient.
More reliable.
More accessible.

Just my humble opinion of course. ;-)

Just making it more accessible would be a giant step.

I remember our last Downtown Development Walkabout, and that it required someone intimately familiar (cough*corrND*cough) with the IU Med School campus to find our way onto the People Mover.

Regarding the fountains near the C/C building, it looks like they are in the process of replacing the pipes and plumbing. Just today I noticed that there has been some new pvc pipe laid. I don't know how long it will take - but hopefully they will be back up and running before we are too far into Summer.

Regarding the fountains near the C/C building, it looks like they are in the process of replacing the pipes and plumbing. Just today I noticed that there has been some new pvc pipe laid. I don't know how long it will take - but hopefully they will be back up and running before we are too far into Summer.

You're right, they aren't removing them, just completely overhauling them. I saw them laying pipe today. I hope they do something a little more interesting now that they're completely demolished.

Today there were workers inside the structure and some doors have had their boards removed and were being used. Definitely some real activity over there. The fence posts are all installed but the area isn't quite fenced off yet.

They're installing fencing around the Bank One Ops Center project. They've also removed all Cultural Trail equipment and materials. It's nice to see movement over there. Time for a thread I suppose.

http://indianapolisparking.net/market.jpg

If anybody wants to make public comments about the parking garage plans north of the One America Tower, the Regional Center planning committee is having its hearing for the project at 10:00 am this Thursday (tomorrow - May 24th). It will be held on the 18th floor of the City County Building. I'm not sure of the specific room number, but if you go into room 1821 off of the lobby, you can check with the people behind the desk there.

If only I wasnt working.... *sigh*

At least I've thrown a fit about it. ;-)
http://www.urbanindy.com/2012/05/23/indys-2012-investment-in-parking-19-million-to-date/

I honestly don't mind the design, I have a certain affinity for brutalist structures. I'm just blown away that they aren't taking advantage of the thousands of people who will be walking by and working nearby and put retail in every available inch of the ground level. It's so bizarre to miss an opportunity like that.

The only thing resembling a positive that I can see is that they'll be at least consolidating the area parking into a multi-level garage, which may free up the surrounding area surface lots for positive, mixed use development. The area desperately needs residential!

It's a sly rendering that's made to look like those are windows at ground level. If you read the fine print describing the material in those openings, it says "Bronze Metal Screen in Dark Bronze Aluminum Framing System." And if you look at the siteplan, retail is only proposed on the corner of Illinois/New York. If you then flip to the facades, "Potential First Floor Retail" is only written on that corner, with arrows specifically delineated that TINY space.

Here's what an earlier (and apparently shorter) rendering showed:

http://www.csoinc.net/sites/default/files/projects/slideshow/1/Exterior-OneAmGarage.jpg?1327525821

I can't get past the fact the city is actually paying to build this shitty thing.

I work with a Puerto Rican woman who's been singing this song in Spanish with the refrain "Indyanapolees" since I met her.. turns out that Menudo had a #1 hit in Puerto rico titled shockingly enough "Indianapolis". It was huge all over Mexico and South America in the mid 80's.

I youtubed it, and got the full video. Freakin hilarious.. It even has it's own dance, which includes oddly enough, a sort of square dancing. Why haven't I heard this before?? After one listen, it's still running through my head. I think this should be adopted as our official city song.

This is well worth a viewing.

6WcwYOTGuuA

And the concert version, filmed at a race track (?) tho I doubt it's in Indy:

ZemedTGMEbY

edit - english lyrics:

Over the horizon on Memorial Day
The sun shows its face
People come from everywhere
To witness the greatest race
In the pits, mechanics tune the motors
Gettin' ready for the fight
Gentlemen, start your engines
The green flag is down

CHORUS:
Indianapolis,Indianapolis
Indianapolis,Indianapolis
Indianapolis,Indianapolis

Cheers and banners fill the air
Together with the smell of burnin' gasoline
Everybody on your feet to welcome
The ferocious machines
33 warriors in their chariots
Go out into the battlefield
33 shiny helmets
Take command of the wheel

CHORUS:
Indianapolis,Indianapolis
Indianapolis,Indianapolis
Indianapolis,Indianapolis

Flashing color turbos bite into the ground
Along the straightaway
Fearless men dream to be the winners
On this glorious day
500 miles to the checkered flag to show the bravery
500 miles to the finish line to victory

CHORUS:
Indianapolis,Indianapolis
Indianapolis,Indianapolis
Indianapolis,Indianapolis (2x)

Walking to the nearest public park isn't easy in Indianapolis, a new study notes, and it might take awhile.

Two-thirds of residents don't live within a half-mile of a city-owned park, about a 10-minute walk. That's a serious shortcoming, the study's authors say, that keeps the parks system from improving the city's quality of life and encouraging more physical activity.

And it's one reason Indianapolis ranked 36th out of the 40 largest U.S. cities in the annual ParkScore ranking, to be released today by the San Francisco-based Trust for Public Land. Indianapolis tied with Mesa, Ariz.

Full article here. (http://www.indystar.com/article/20120523/LOCAL/205230320/Indianapolis-parks-not-a-priority-study-says?odyssey=tab|mostpopular|text|FRONTPAGE)

Interestingly, when you read down, the study doesn't include public-school fields and playgrounds, private (usually HOA) parks, the IMA (not sure if "100 Acres" is in or out of the count since it's a joint venture with IndyParks, but the rest of the IMA grounds are out), Crown Hill Cemetery, State Fairgrounds, Deaf School, Blind School, open space on the IUPUI, Marian, and U of I campuses, Holcomb Gardens at Butler, and private/charter school campuses. A big chunk of land that serves as de-facto "parks and open space" is excluded.

The downtown Canal, which is administered by DMD, wouldn't be in the count, nor would The Cultural Trail. Worse, the study excludes a major regional park (Fort Harrison State Park) because it's in Lawrence. That last one is just nuts, as people in the eastern tier of townships are far more likely to drive to the Fort than to Eagle Creek for biking and hiking and picnics.

The article also points out that the "parks budget" has gone down 22% since 2008 without pointing out that the maintenance and forestry functions that used to be housed in IndyParks have been moved to DPW, and that this might make city-to-city comparison difficult.

Look, I'm an advocate for accessible parks and Greenways/Trails, but I have some serious reservations with relying on bad data to make a point.

This post is somewhat risky, as it's based on my reading of a Star reporter's interpretation. I will try to download or link to the full study.

That song and video are hilarious.

Priceless! I dig the dance they are doing.

6WcwYOTGuuA

Walking to the nearest public park isn't easy in Indianapolis, a new study notes, and it might take awhile.

Two-thirds of residents don't live within a half-mile of a city-owned park, about a 10-minute walk. That's a serious shortcoming, the study's authors say, that keeps the parks system from improving the city's quality of life and encouraging more physical activity.

And it's one reason Indianapolis ranked 36th out of the 40 largest U.S. cities in the annual ParkScore ranking, to be released today by the San Francisco-based Trust for Public Land. Indianapolis tied with Mesa, Ariz.

Full article here. (http://www.indystar.com/article/20120523/LOCAL/205230320/Indianapolis-parks-not-a-priority-study-says?odyssey=tab|mostpopular|text|FRONTPAGE)

Interestingly, when you read down, the study doesn't include public-school fields and playgrounds, private (usually HOA) parks, the IMA (not sure if "100 Acres" is in or out of the count since it's a joint venture with IndyParks, but the rest of the IMA grounds are out), Crown Hill Cemetery, State Fairgrounds, Deaf School, Blind School, open space on the IUPUI, Marian, and U of I campuses, Holcomb Gardens at Butler, and private/charter school campuses. A big chunk of land that serves as de-facto "parks and open space" is excluded.

The downtown Canal, which is administered by DMD, wouldn't be in the count, nor would The Cultural Trail. Worse, the study excludes a major regional park (Fort Harrison State Park) because it's in Lawrence. That last one is just nuts, as people in the eastern tier of townships are far more likely to drive to the Fort than to Eagle Creek for biking and hiking and picnics.

The article also points out that the "parks budget" has gone down 22% since 2008 without pointing out that the maintenance and forestry functions that used to be housed in IndyParks have been moved to DPW, and that this might make city-to-city comparison difficult.

Look, I'm an advocate for accessible parks and Greenways/Trails, but I have some serious reservations with relying on bad data to make a point.

This post is somewhat risky, as it's based on my reading of a Star reporter's interpretation. I will try to download or link to the full study.
My fellow Urban Indy'ers don't agree -- primarily arguing that the flawed basis for the comparison is equally flawed for all cities -- but I agree that this study is ridiculous. My reading is that the study's goal is to map access to public green space. I understand the difficulty of including privately owned parks (such as the 7 neighborhood parks that dot the near northside neighborhoods) but it makes absolutely no sense to exclude schools. In many areas, the nearest public playground is very likely their neighborhood school.

All that said, do we really think the parks system in Indy is properly funded?

Here's the link to the Trust for Public Land website.

http://parkscore.tpl.org/map.php?city=Indianapolis

Straight out, the results for Indianapolis don't pass the smell test. They are absurd.

Part of the Tech HS campus counts in their "very high park need". Seriously? Ditto for the Howe HS baseball field, and the whole Lafayette Square commercial/mall/car-dealer district...where no one lives.

Likewise, "high need" includes the area around Tabernacle Presbyterian and Shortridge HS along 34th St., and the area around the Old Northside's pocket park and Herron HS. It would be hard to argue that such walkable neighborhoods with good tree canopies that DO have functional open space are deprived of the benefits of "natural space".

I worked with the director of a highly-respected local university design center to produce a "10-minute-walk" map for the mid-north area, and we agreed that schools and cemeteries, as well as "private" pocket parks that are generally accessible would count toward "parks and open space". The result is far more believable, and thus actionable.

As an advocate, I would not rely on the TPL methodology or results. If it's this easy for me to poke holes in, it just won't stand up to scrutiny.

That song and that dance need a revival.. they do the same dance in concert, so I suppose it's Indy's version of the Macarena.. It's so awful and so catchy... it won't leave my head... Why have I not been aware of it til now?

And it gets better... Ricky Martin joined Menudo while this song was popular. The video below has him in it.. He's the youngest one on the right wearing blue. This video showcases the dance.

HhC-mjM6f1M


Priceless! I dig the dance they are doing.

6WcwYOTGuuA

My fellow Urban Indy'ers don't agree -- primarily arguing that the flawed basis for the comparison is equally flawed for all cities -- but I agree that this study is ridiculous. My reading is that the study's goal is to map access to public green space. I understand the difficulty of including privately owned parks (such as the 7 neighborhood parks that dot the near northside neighborhoods) but it makes absolutely no sense to exclude schools. In many areas, the nearest public playground is very likely their neighborhood school.?

I'd go a step further than looking at schools and playgrounds in the really-suburban areas of the county: backyards are functional parks and open space. Newer subdivisions have "amenity space", and even though it's semi-private, it meets their need for park and open space.

Historically, one big reason people moved out of the city to suburbs (originally) was to escape industry, pollution, density and the "concrete jungle" and be surrounded with green space.


All that said, do we really think the parks system in Indy is properly funded?

THAT is a completely different question than "are the people of Indianapolis adequately served with parks and open space". It is my sense that the TPL rankings are constructed to try and answer my question, using yours as a proxy for part of it.

"Properly funded" includes some comparison/preference testing. When the pot is limited, what percentage goes to EMT service, fire service, police service, road repair, snowplows, new parks, maintenance of existing parks, etc. Given X dollars for government services which can be raised from the tax base, where should we spend it?

"are the people of Indianapolis adequately served with parks and open space"?

The more I think about it, the more I think even this question is ridiculous. "The people of Indianapolis" have a wonderful public park and trail system. Unfortunately, it is one that many have to drive to use.

It's a highly localized issue, based on the 10-minute walk. A cleaned-up version of the TPL map would be the most useful tool for deciding this.

I live within a 10-minute walk of Christian Park, a wonderful, active place with a long stretch of Pleasant Run in it.

Christian Park illustrates the issue of "space for activity" versus "programs". Does it really cost the city much to water and mow the grass and tend the playground and trees in the eastern part of Christian Park where the football field is?

The cost at Christian Park is really in maintaining the park building, splash zone, the baseball infrasructure, and in the parks-sponsored staffed activities.

"Access to parks and recreation" are different than "level of activity programmed into a park". Buying, equipping, and maintaining parks are different from building park activity centers and staffing them.

Its a tough call. I would agree with both of you that the data is flawed, but I would argue that it is equally flawed everywhere.

We also talked about whether the city-county status of Indy, which includes a lot of suburban oriented area that isnt as accessible on foot, dilutes the status. If you look inside of "old" indianapolis, there are a number of parks that offer smaller parking areas, lie on a well connected urban grid and generally serve their surrounding neighborhoods well. I would also agree that not including private parks and trails is a hit.

However, being as I have spent a lot of time analyzing other city's transit systems, it can often be tough to paint an accurate picture of a city and it's unique places and infrastructure. Often times, visiting in person is the best way to quantify a study.

I still believe comparatively speaking, the study isnt far off. All city's are going to equally report data in a sub-par manner

Its a tough call. I would agree with both of you that the data is flawed, but I would argue that it is equally flawed everywhere.

We also talked about whether the city-county status of Indy, which includes a lot of suburban oriented area that isnt as accessible on foot, dilutes the status. If you look inside of "old" indianapolis, there are a number of parks that offer smaller parking areas, lie on a well connected urban grid and generally serve their surrounding neighborhoods well. I would also agree that not including private parks and trails is a hit.

However, being as I have spent a lot of time analyzing other city's transit systems, it can often be tough to paint an accurate picture of a city and it's unique places and infrastructure. Often times, visiting in person is the best way to quantify a study.

I still believe comparatively speaking, the study isnt far off. All city's are going to equally report data in a sub-par manner

Curt, I'm not sure about the equally-flawed argument. Few comparable metro areas have a huge state park like Ft. Ben in the core county. In a low-tax/private-parnership environment like Indy, there will be more private solutions to parks & open space issues. Other states have "regional" parks authorities, and one of them is Ohio, so Columbus won't compare directly even though the metro areas are otherwise "twins".

What I'm getting at is that a "pure" quantitative approach like the TPL uses misses underlying factors that have a profound influence on the "result" they're trying to measure.

Shocked, shocked, shocked that the OneAmerica garage wasn't rubber stamped:

http://www.ibj.com/city-delays-approval-of-downtown-parking-garage/PARAMS/article/34597

Huge kudos to the "two Indianapolis residents who attended the meeting insisted the retail plans are inadequate, especially since city guidelines say parking garages fronting pedestrian walkways should include “retail shops, restaurants, business services and offices.”

Let's hope that what they come back with is much better. I'd much rather see this block used for another tower instead of parking. But as long as there is enough retail to make it look like it fits in with the city fabric, so be it... for now.

Let's hope that what they come back with is much better. I'd much rather see this block used for another tower instead of parking. But as long as there is enough retail to make it look like it fits in with the city fabric, so be it... for now.

Building a tall tower there (One America) is what created this problem. The One America tenants then had to take over 3+ square blocks of surface parking making the entire area a black hole.

A tall tower with adequate parking in the base helps, but we'll continue to see this problem over and over until Indy addresses the #1 thing inhibiting positive urban design downtown: public transportation.

Until then, I suppose lots of garages with retail is better than huge wastelands of surface lots..

Building a tall tower there (One America) is what created this problem. The One America tenants then had to take over 3+ square blocks of surface parking making the entire area a black hole.

A tall tower with adequate parking in the base helps, but we'll continue to see this problem over and over until Indy addresses the #1 thing inhibiting positive urban design downtown: public transportation.

Until then, I suppose lots of garages with retail is better than huge wastelands of surface lots..


Don't get me wrong, Moochie... I definitely know why towers can't be built downtown without having millions of parking spaces. Bloomington has an excellent transit system, in fact, one voted the best in the nation for small markets in 2010. That doesn't mean there aren't problems, there are other transportation issues here I would love to have taken care of. Fact is, we don't have legislators that will let us do the moving and shaking to get me out of my G6 more often.

One day people in this state won't be so opposed to using mass transit. I would much rather take a train to my parents place in Alexandria instead of drive 2 hours (as long as that trip was shortened, of course) in my car.

I'd also rather take the train to spend a day (or night) in Indy and be able to hop on some street cars, bus or train to help make sure I don't pull another late night of almost hitting a police car by running a red light, not because I was drunk, but because a 2:30am trip back to Bloomington makes one awful drowsy just thinking about it.

There's a million and a half reasons to support mass transit, and I think it would be absolutely beneficial to Indianapolis to build a better infrastructure for such... maybe then we'd get our towers instead of these lots/garages. I'm tired of looking at pavement in Google map photos when I'm looking at things. I want Indianapolis to be the world class city I know it can be.

Personally I don't mind the brutalist design, and don't care whether there are bumpouts or awnings or pretty flowers.. here's an article from indystar, apparently more retail ain't happening:

http://blogs.indystar.com/bizbuzz/2012/05/24/oneamerica-garage-design-may-be-changed/

OneAmerica garage design may be changed


A city design hearing today on the block-long OneAmerica parking garage Downtown has been continued to June 14 in order to redesign the structure’s facade.

The continuation came after two citizens objected to the garage’s uninspiring look and the city regional center hearing examiner directed the developer to redesign the Illinois Street side to be more aesthetically appealing.

The city hearing examiner suggested the addition of awnings or structural “bumpouts” on the side of the garage facing Illinois Street, said city senior planner Jeff York.

A spokesman for developer Flaherty & Collins said it’s set aside 1,500 square feet of space for possible retail use in the garage and that adding more retail space accessible from Illinois Street would significantly increase the garage’s cost.

Th city isn’t directing the developer to add more retail space, York said.

The city has agreed to pay for the $9 million garage at Illinois and New York streets in a deal with insurer OneAmerica, which is losing a nearby employee parking lot to a major apartment-retail project planned by Flaherty & Collins. That project will contain about 55,000 square feet of retail space, so Flaherty & Collins doesn’t necessarily want to build even more retail space into the parking garage.

The four- to five-story garage, which would hold over 1,000 spaces, would be connected by an over-the-street walkway to the OneAmerica Tower.

A tall tower with adequate parking in the base helps, but we'll continue to see this problem over and over until Indy addresses the #1 thing inhibiting positive urban design downtown: public transportation.

Until then, I suppose lots of garages with retail is better than huge wastelands of surface lots..

Thats really all that needs to be said

Personally I don't mind the brutalist design, and don't care whether there are bumpouts or awnings or pretty flowers.. here's an article from indystar, apparently more retail ain't happening:

http://blogs.indystar.com/bizbuzz/2012/05/24/oneamerica-garage-design-may-be-changed/

OneAmerica garage design may be changed


A city design hearing today on the block-long OneAmerica parking garage Downtown has been continued to June 14 in order to redesign the structure’s facade.

The continuation came after two citizens objected to the garage’s uninspiring look and the city regional center hearing examiner directed the developer to redesign the Illinois Street side to be more aesthetically appealing.

The city hearing examiner suggested the addition of awnings or structural “bumpouts” on the side of the garage facing Illinois Street, said city senior planner Jeff York.

A spokesman for developer Flaherty & Collins said it’s set aside 1,500 square feet of space for possible retail use in the garage and that adding more retail space accessible from Illinois Street would significantly increase the garage’s cost.

Th city isn’t directing the developer to add more retail space, York said.

The city has agreed to pay for the $9 million garage at Illinois and New York streets in a deal with insurer OneAmerica, which is losing a nearby employee parking lot to a major apartment-retail project planned by Flaherty & Collins. That project will contain about 55,000 square feet of retail space, so Flaherty & Collins doesn’t necessarily want to build even more retail space into the parking garage.

The four- to five-story garage, which would hold over 1,000 spaces, would be connected by an over-the-street walkway to the OneAmerica Tower.

Why so short sighted and opposed to a livable and walkable city?

Putting awnings on a parking garage is the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig. And putting lipstick on a pig doesn't make the pig Kate Upton.

The request to improve the pedestrian friendliness is pointless if they don't also require the developer include something that a pedestrian would want to go to. By all means make the garage look better, but if anybody thinks that a pedestrian gives a rats as what a garage looks like if all it presents at ground level is screens hiding cars, they're nuts. How many pedestrians do you see walking by the Lilly garages because they're so pretty?

To be blunt: put some fucking retail it.

Why so short sighted and opposed to a livable and walkable city?


Money. In short this is why:

1. The One America tower has used 3+ blocks of surrounding surface parking for decades, killing development and creating an embarassing black hole in the area.

2. The developer (Flaherty and Collins mostly) wants to develop some some of that prime surface lot property. This is awesome, but One America needs somewhere to park. So...

3. The City is paying to build a parking garage to accomodate all of One America's needs. They are spending taxpayer money to do it, so the City wants to do this cheaply. They'd like for either the developer or One America to pony up some cash for retail, but...

- One America doesn't want to pony up any of the millions it would cost to put retail in the garage. They were happy with the way things were parking in the parking lot wastelands.

- Flaherty and Collins doesn't want to spend the millions either, they're already putting in a lot of retail in their development, and it cuts into their profits to donate money to a parking garage that they won't control, besides, some of that garage retail may cut into their retail profits.

So... we get a block long crap parking garage downtown with a tiny coffee shop. The End.

Money. In short this is why:

1. The One America tower has used 3+ blocks of surrounding surface parking for decades, killing development and creating an embarassing black hole in the area.

2. The developer (Flaherty and Collins mostly) wants to develop some some of that prime surface lot property. This is awesome, but One America needs somewhere to park. So...

3. The City is paying to build a parking garage to accomodate all of One America's needs. They are spending taxpayer money to do it, so the City wants to do this cheaply. They'd like for either the developer or One America to pony up some cash for retail, but...

- One America doesn't want to pony up any of the millions it would cost to put retail in the garage. They were happy with the way things were parking in the parking lot wastelands.

- Flaherty and Collins doesn't want to spend the millions either, they're already putting in a lot of retail in their development, and it cuts into their profits to donate money to a parking garage that they won't control, besides, some of that garage retail may cut into their retail profits.

So... we get a block long crap parking garage downtown with a tiny coffee shop. The End:
:ohno:

And NO ONE WANTS more space, other than those who don't have to pay for it (and who won't lose their asses when it sits empty for years). Look at Cosmo I's 15,000 square feet or Hudson's ground floor which was converted to offices for the developer who bought the building after it failed as condos...no one wants to lease the space.

Guys, in Indy we just can't support Manhattan- style or Loop-type development on every downtown block. Call this one a win because it makes Cosmo II and the Marsh possible.

We dont have to like it Chris. ;-)

In related news, didnt this project start as 487 apartments? Now its down to 330 or something? What happened to the 150 apartments when the project was announced? Or are those part of the second triangle lot and thus, arent counted?

I say 330 from the IBJ article. I didnt see anywhere else explaining the different amount of apartments

:ohno:

And NO ONE WANTS more space, other than those who don't have to pay for it (and who won't lose their asses when it sits empty for years). Look at Cosmo I's 15,000 square feet or Hudson's ground floor which was converted to offices for the developer who bought the building after it failed as condos...no one wants to lease the space.

Guys, in Indy we just can't support Manhattan- style or Loop-type development on every downtown block. Call this one a win because it makes Cosmo II and the Marsh possible.
Come on, Chris. Isn't Block 400 more akin to CityWay than those other projects, a new development large enough to create its own gravity? Buckingham has apparently already leased most of CityWay and about half of The Avenue.

I wouldn't worry about too much retail in this area -- I'd worry about building a garage that will be there essentially forever without the adaptability to meet the needs of the future.

Speaking of building a garage without the possibility for future adaptability ... my biggest wish is for them to re-align the garage so that it doesn't front along Vermont Street. If they instead sited it along the north side of New York Street they could at least reserve the open lot on the north half of the block for a future residential / mixed use project fronting the very nice, walkable Vermont Street. By building all the way up to Vermont Street, they take away that possibility for a century or so.

I could handle a half block parking garage on the southern half of that block. They could put a little commercial in along New York Street - and have the option to put more commercial in at a later date if the demand called for it. Vermont is one of the most walkable, pedestrian-friendly streets downtown and it should not have a six story parking garage stuck in the middle of it. New York Street - especially in that area - is just an ugly, four or five lane thoroughfare for cars A parking garage there isn't a huge problem - especially if it could have two or three bays of commercial use on the first floor.

The request to improve the pedestrian friendliness is pointless if they don't also require the developer include something that a pedestrian would want to go to. By all means make the garage look better, but if anybody thinks that a pedestrian gives a rats as what a garage looks like if all it presents at ground level is screens hiding cars, they're nuts. How many pedestrians do you see walking by the Lilly garages because they're so pretty?

To be blunt: put some fucking retail it.

Amen.

Amen.

Agreed, the fact that the hearing examiner said he could overlook the lack of retail if the developer added more landscaping is ridiculous! Do these guys realize we are talking about development downtown. This isn't Fishers... Landsape downtown should include trees in pits along the curb and maybe some planters, its not rocket science. There are so many ways that the negative impacts of parking garages can be mitigated. we don't seem to be trying any of them even though public fund are being used.

check out this garage in Cleveland:

http://www.clevelandskyscrapers.com/515euclid081105.jpg

Come on, Chris. Isn't Block 400 more akin to CityWay than those other projects, a new development large enough to create its own gravity? Buckingham has apparently already leased most of CityWay and about half of The Avenue.

I wouldn't worry about too much retail in this area -- I'd worry about building a garage that will be there essentially forever without the adaptability to meet the needs of the future.

How much can 350-400 new residents spend? Let's imagine that they make the median, $50,000, pay 1/4 in taxes and 1/3 to housing. They probably also make student-loan and car payments/maintenance/insurance of another 15-20%. That leaves about $12K for everything else. 400x12,000=4.8million. At $500/square foot, this creates demand for less than 10,000 sf of retail. With a 40,000 sf Marsh, we're already in a hole.

How much can 350-400 new residents spend? Let's imagine that they make the median, $50,000, pay 1/4 in taxes and 1/3 to housing. They probably also make student-loan and car payments/maintenance/insurance of another 15-20%. That leaves about $12K for everything else. 400x12,000=4.8million. At $500/square foot, this creates demand for less than 10,000 sf of retail. With a 40,000 sf Marsh, we're already in a hole.
You know as well as I do (probably better) that the Marsh will create a draw that expands the trade zone of retail around it. They're going to capture a lot more than just the disposable income of the new residents. Even CityWay can't claim that.

Not only that, if we agree that we are funding a parking garage, we are saying that land which could be used to repopulate this area is being sacrificed. Another way of saying there is no need for the retail is to say that people that could be living there, will not even have the opportunity to live there.

Agree with Hoss too. Ive seen "green" garages in Portland and Charlotte that did not look as nice as the Cleveland one he posted, but much more responsible about managing the land that the garage is built on.

This One America piece of junk disrespects everythig

Hey folks, I just got back to the country a few days ago and was one of the "two Indianapolis residents" who attended this hearing on the parking garage, after learning about it through this site, realizing I had the time to attend, and then arriving to what amounted to little more than a conference room with about a dozen people. I had a t-shirt, shorts, and flip-flops on--not sure about my credibility, but oh well.

I was the second of the two remonstrators. The first one (a follower of UrbanIndy) put it well enough that I really didn't need to say anything else. He carried with him the Regional Center Design Guidelines and pointed out where this proposal failed to meet the standards. He said that the current proposed design for the garage looked like an ice cube tray. In short, he was far better prepared than I was and phrased it well enough to make me little more than an echo.

I'm not sure we singlehandedly changed the design by our presence (though that's the impression Indy Star seems to convey), because the hearing examiner clearly had his own objections, though they were incredibly timid. After all, he seemed to imply that additional architectural detailing may be enough to achieve satisfactory results. Even if you disregard the meager 1500 s.f. retail inclusion for this garage, the design is modeled after one of Indy's least inspiring major structures, the One America Building. Is that building really worthy of a tribute?

F&C's argument for such marginal retail inclusion was that this is "a soft time for retail", to which it would be foolish to disagree. But since the city is helping to subsidize this, would it be prudent for both the developer and this significant public-sector "equity partner" (I put it in quotes because I know that really isn't the right term for the City) to be a little more adventuresome, since, thanks to subsidies, they can be a little less risk averse in terms of filling all the retail GLA? The developers yesterday argued that "nothing is worse than seeing a series of vacant storefronts". Bad indeed, but even worse is a blank wall without even the potential for pedestrian engagement during a better economic climate. They also argued about ventilation issues for a parking garage with retail, which I find unconvincing given the number of successful parking/retail integrations just blocks away. Lastly, one of the designers argued that the iconic One America sign (with the punny quotes each new day) was most worthy of preservation and will create enough visual interest to offset the lack of retail.

If I'm around for the next hearing in June, I'll do my best to attend, but definitely keep your eyes peeled. I'm glad that the examiner delayed approval (I wouldn't begin to take credit for it), but I'm hardly optimistic we'll get anything decent at this point--mediocrity seems to be the best we can hope for, and the proposal yesterday was worse than mediocre.

Does anybody know why there are so many on street parking restrictions downtown...? Im not talking about 500 festival areas either - It seems as though every block has at least a few of those little orange no parking signs, and have for a few months now. Did that parking deal eliminate that many on street spaces?

You know as well as I do (probably better) that the Marsh will create a draw that expands the trade zone of retail around it. They're going to capture a lot more than just the disposable income of the new residents. Even CityWay can't claim that.

But then it will steal dollars from the retail around the other Marsh, or from Mass Ave, or from all the CVS stores. Just building retail space does not create retail spending. Spending increases come from increases in residents, workers, and tourists.

I like the design of the garage they are building in Cleveland.

I've been in indy the last 9 days and enjoyed carb day, the parade and the race, although I'm pretty well done after sitting in the sun. I thought I would go downtown and walk around and then take a look at Georgia Street since we all discussed the problems it has a couple weeks ago.

I have to admit that I was very surprised about the level of damage it has sustained. Parts of it honestly to me are a wreck. The street pavers in particular are shifting and being eaten up by moving around. It is becoming somewhat wide spread. Also there is a ton of staining on the sidewalk pavers. There seems to be a ton of hydraulic fluid drips and such all up and down the entire length of the street. I wonder if this was done due to the hydraulic lifts putting up banners and structures on Georgia St. during the superbowl.

I hope they have budget to really get this up to snuff again. This thing looks like it aged 10 to 15 years in a few months. Bottom line... kill traffic on the street. I don't think the paver choice is designed for the weight cars and especially trucks whis is causing the minor shifting of the street pavers. I guess when a couple pavers move here and there they start getting chewed up on the edges and then the become loose making others become loose doing the same thing. Before you know it, you have sections of 80 to 100 pavers shifting with damage to them. Not to mention the bollards. Several have been hit and are bent or destroyed.

They better stock up on many types of pavers to give them the ability to maintain this as a destination street.

any news on the timeline to fix the street? Are there any cost estimates yet?

No clue on a timeline or budget, but repairs and modifications are being done daily. I was on the street daily for the month leading up to the superbowl, and you're correct, the majority of the damage was done by heavy equipment cranes and vehicles paying zero attention to the load limits of the street materials during setup and tear down.

Anyhoo, a major revamp is underway, including removing some flower beds and bollards. One reason why it looks like such a wreck still is because a lot is going to change and materials will be replaced. No sense in repairing what will soon be gone.

I don't think we've had a discussion here on the effects of losing all but electric car street parking on Georgia.. Is this a good or bad thing?

I've been in indy the last 9 days and enjoyed carb day, the parade and the race, although I'm pretty well done after sitting in the sun. I thought I would go downtown and walk around and then take a look at Georgia Street since we all discussed the problems it has a couple weeks ago.

I have to admit that I was very surprised about the level of damage it has sustained. Parts of it honestly to me are a wreck. The street pavers in particular are shifting and being eaten up by moving around. It is becoming somewhat wide spread. Also there is a ton of staining on the sidewalk pavers. There seems to be a ton of hydraulic fluid drips and such all up and down the entire length of the street. I wonder if this was done due to the hydraulic lifts putting up banners and structures on Georgia St. during the superbowl.

I hope they have budget to really get this up to snuff again. This thing looks like it aged 10 to 15 years in a few months. Bottom line... kill traffic on the street. I don't think the paver choice is designed for the weight cars and especially trucks whis is causing the minor shifting of the street pavers. I guess when a couple pavers move here and there they start getting chewed up on the edges and then the become loose making others become loose doing the same thing. Before you know it, you have sections of 80 to 100 pavers shifting with damage to them. Not to mention the bollards. Several have been hit and are bent or destroyed.

They better stock up on many types of pavers to give them the ability to maintain this as a destination street.

any news on the timeline to fix the street? Are there any cost estimates yet?

I can't believe they want to save that, "iconic" sign. They can't do retail because of ventilation? Sometimes it seems like some of these designers don't live on the same planet as the rest of us.

Hey folks, I just got back to the country a few days ago and was one of the "two Indianapolis residents" who attended this hearing on the parking garage, after learning about it through this site, realizing I had the time to attend, and then arriving to what amounted to little more than a conference room with about a dozen people. I had a t-shirt, shorts, and flip-flops on--not sure about my credibility, but oh well.

I was the second of the two remonstrators. The first one (a follower of UrbanIndy) put it well enough that I really didn't need to say anything else. He carried with him the Regional Center Design Guidelines and pointed out where this proposal failed to meet the standards. He said that the current proposed design for the garage looked like an ice cube tray. In short, he was far better prepared than I was and phrased it well enough to make me little more than an echo.

I'm not sure we singlehandedly changed the design by our presence (though that's the impression Indy Star seems to convey), because the hearing examiner clearly had his own objections, though they were incredibly timid. After all, he seemed to imply that additional architectural detailing may be enough to achieve satisfactory results. Even if you disregard the meager 1500 s.f. retail inclusion for this garage, the design is modeled after one of Indy's least inspiring major structures, the One America Building. Is that building really worthy of a tribute?

F&C's argument for such marginal retail inclusion was that this is "a soft time for retail", to which it would be foolish to disagree. But since the city is helping to subsidize this, would it be prudent for both the developer and this significant public-sector "equity partner" (I put it in quotes because I know that really isn't the right term for the City) to be a little more adventuresome, since, thanks to subsidies, they can be a little less risk averse in terms of filling all the retail GLA? The developers yesterday argued that "nothing is worse than seeing a series of vacant storefronts". Bad indeed, but even worse is a blank wall without even the potential for pedestrian engagement during a better economic climate. They also argued about ventilation issues for a parking garage with retail, which I find unconvincing given the number of successful parking/retail integrations just blocks away. Lastly, one of the designers argued that the iconic One America sign (with the punny quotes each new day) was most worthy of preservation and will create enough visual interest to offset the lack of retail.

If I'm around for the next hearing in June, I'll do my best to attend, but definitely keep your eyes peeled. I'm glad that the examiner delayed approval (I wouldn't begin to take credit for it), but I'm hardly optimistic we'll get anything decent at this point--mediocrity seems to be the best we can hope for, and the proposal yesterday was worse than mediocre.

But then it will steal dollars from the retail around the other Marsh, or from Mass Ave, or from all the CVS stores. Just building retail space does not create retail spending. Spending increases come from increases in residents, workers, and tourists.

CDC, I don't think it's that simple. This is not a zero-sum game. With more supply, prices for retail space would likely be depressed. The lower prices would likely attract new and hopefully interesting tentents who were previously priced out of the market. With the additional space would also come additional effort and more brokers attempting to lease that space. The right retail mix would likely attract at least a few additional visitors and residents.

Also, "retail space" does not have to function as retail space. It can function as office space, showroom space, studio space whatever. Really my argument boils down to a contintion that urban buildings should interface with the right-of-way with usable flex space with standard retail window systems (typically floor to ceiling windows usually w/transoms). This is just good urbanism weather or not the retail market is hot or cold.

It's been a year or so now... but I recall someone posting or linking to a map that had boundaries for what they consider to be each side of town-- near east, east, near north, near northwest... and so on.

This is not to be confused with the awesome neighborhood map.

Can anyone help me out? Thanks.

I don't think we've had a discussion here on the effects of losing all but electric car street parking on Georgia.. Is this a good or bad thing?

I don't think it is bad. there are very limited amounts of parking available anyways, maybe 10 spaces per block. These could be turned into the cafe spaces for restaurants and keep a large path for people walking on the boardwalk portion. It may be beneficial to allow for temporary parking for loading and unloading. I know hot box cars usually just park in the cross over and block the damn boardwalk.

They are still going to allow vehicle to travel along Georgia, so the street activiation will not be completely altered.

I think it will be a net positive change, especially with the damage done by idiots who shouldn't be driving.

"retail space" does not have to function as retail space. It can function as office space, showroom space, studio space whatever. Really my argument boils down to a contintion that urban buildings should interface with the right-of-way with usable flex space with standard retail window systems (typically floor to ceiling windows usually w/transoms). This is just good urbanism weather or not the retail market is hot or cold.

I don't disagree. But when there is 15-20% office vacancy downtown, and retail vacancy all over town, there is no need to build more.

For a city like Indianapolis, districts or nodes are perfectly appropriate organizational schemes for street-level commercial/retail. Every block of every street can't be an urbanist's paradise.

I was out on the near west side over the weekend. I hadn't seen the "Central Greens" project before - on the old Central State Hospital site along W. Washington Street. It is coming along pretty well. The first phase currently under construction is adding 144 residential units along with some retail space, a clubhouse, swimming pool and a playground.

Although the site is just a little over a mile west of the western edge of White River State Park, it is not in Center Township but is in Wayne Township. Still, it is definitely in the urban core of the city - and will be adding more residential, so that is a good thing for the heart of our city. Eventually, some senior apartments are also planned to go onto the site in one of the existing, older buildings.

The design is a little "different". The complex has an entirely brick exterior. It is made up of a series of townhome-style residential buildings - each one with its own tower alcove / balcony. All of the "towers" seem to be a little much -- but overall it looks like a pretty solid project. Very glad to see this important piece of land put back to good residential use.

I don't think we've had a discussion here on the effects of losing all but electric car street parking on Georgia.. Is this a good or bad thing?

I think it's an acceptable and dare I see, imperceivable loss.

Think about it. If anyone along georgia St or otherwise is basing their business model on the amount of on street parking located along Georgia Street, they are doomed to start with. There are tons of parking garage spaces available adjacent, not to mention, metered spaces along all the N/S streets that intersect Georgia.

If someone is hell bent on parking on the street, they can make it happen. The only thing I foresee losing out might be the aforementioned pizza delivery business but really, as I said, basing a business model on this is dragging us all down to the lowest common denominator.

Would anyone build something from scratch so that pizza delivery has a place to park? Sounds crazy doesnt it?

I don't disagree. But when there is 15-20% office vacancy downtown, and retail vacancy all over town, there is no need to build more.

For a city like Indianapolis, districts or nodes are perfectly appropriate organizational schemes for street-level commercial/retail. Every block of every street can't be an urbanist's paradise.

Are we in agreement then that more often than not, urban buildings should be built with appropriate retail style window systems that can accomodate various uses, retail, office or general flex space? Obviously this is not oppropriate for all areas and all building typologies, town homes schools or other government buildings for example. In general, however, most commercial or standard mixed-use building should follow this simple rule. I've seen far too many buildings (especially newer buildings) built in Indy that don't interface appropriatly with the right-of-way. Even many of our retail buildings use inappropriate window and entry systems.

I don't disagree. But when there is 15-20% office vacancy downtown, and retail vacancy all over town, there is no need to build more.

For a city like Indianapolis, districts or nodes are perfectly appropriate organizational schemes for street-level commercial/retail. Every block of every street can't be an urbanist's paradise.

I think the issue that people have with this development is based on the permanence of what they are doing. It's a parking garage. It will last for decades with a relatively small degree of upkeep. Not requiring at least the possibility of future commercial use for the ground level, for a structure that will be there for decades, seems shortsighted. While not every block can be an urbanist's paradise, this particular block is two blocks from the circle and not far from IUPUI. Given all that has happened downtown in the last 20 years, it doesn't seem like a stretch to think that this block could be in line for something better within the next generation.

I'm sure that there are dozens of reasons why it wouldn't work, but how about this? Instead of building the garage on the eastern half of the block, why not build the garage on the middle 50 percent of the block? By that, I mean have the garage run the entire "height" of the block from New York to Vermont, but instead of aligning the garage along Illinois Street, have it right in the middle. This would leave two "slivers" of land, each comprising 25 percent of the block, along Illinois Street and Capitol Ave. For now, those slivers would remain surface parking, and this setup wouldn't be great for the frontage on New York or Vermont, but it would be less permanent. The slivers would be wide enough for midrise development if that becomes practical in the future, and wouldn't require expensive modification or demolition of a rock solid parking garage. Again, this isn't anyone's idea of an ideal project for the central business district, but at least such a plan would only kill 25 percent of the block's frontage instead of 50 percent.

By the way, on Google Streetview, the OneAmerica sign says: "When bullets marry, do they have b.b.'s?" Fucking civic treasure, that OneAmerica sign.

Are we in agreement then that more often than not, urban buildings should be built with appropriate retail style window systems that can accomodate various uses, retail, office or general flex space? Obviously this is not oppropriate for all areas and all building typologies, town homes schools or other government buildings for example. In general, however, most commercial or standard mixed-use building should follow this simple rule. I've seen far too many buildings (especially newer buildings) built in Indy that don't interface appropriatly with the right-of-way. Even many of our retail buildings use inappropriate window and entry systems.

I think the issue that people have with this development is based on the permanence of what they are doing. It's a parking garage. It will last for decades with a relatively small degree of upkeep. Not requiring at least the possibility of future commercial use for the ground level, for a structure that will be there for decades, seems shortsighted. While not every block can be an urbanist's paradise, this particular block is two blocks from the circle and not far from IUPUI. Given all that has happened downtown in the last 20 years, it doesn't seem like a stretch to think that this block could be in line for something better within the next generation.

I'm sure that there are dozens of reasons why it wouldn't work, but how about this? Instead of building the garage on the eastern half of the block, why not build the garage on the middle 50 percent of the block? By that, I mean have the garage run the entire "height" of the block from New York to Vermont, but instead of aligning the garage along Illinois Street, have it right in the middle. This would leave two "slivers" of land, each comprising 25 percent of the block, along Illinois Street and Capitol Ave. For now, those slivers would remain surface parking, and this setup wouldn't be great for the frontage on New York or Vermont, but it would be less permanent. The slivers would be wide enough for midrise development if that becomes practical in the future, and wouldn't require expensive modification or demolition of a rock solid parking garage. Again, this isn't anyone's idea of an ideal project for the central business district, but at least such a plan would only kill 25 percent of the block's frontage instead of 50 percent.

By the way, on Google Streetview, the OneAmerica sign says: "When bullets marry, do they have b.b.'s?" Fucking civic treasure, that OneAmerica sign.

Here's the deal.

Urban design, urbanism, urban planning...they're all arts. Arts of the possible.

Politics, civic discourse, public policy and government decision-making are the arts of the practical.

http://www.urbanindy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/block400_site.jpg

No matter where in that block this parking garage is put, it will still be a half-block parking garage. It's across the street from two quarter-block parking garages. It's not a popular point of view, but I view structured parking as a necessary evil. It makes other streets much better.

If the need for parking ever declines, they can convert part of the ground floor to commercial. And install a park on the roof. (This is one of the overlooked "future positives" of parking garages: their construction and weight-bearing capability allow them to be mini-High Line parks or urban fields in the "less car" future, if there is one. The lower levels can be converted to mushroom caves or steady-state storage or server farms.)

CDC, The problem with your senerio is that you can't convert the ground floor of a typical garage into retail because of the ceiling heights. If you plan to install ground floor retail, your ceiling heights need to be much higher. Maybe 14' vs. 8'. You have to do it up front. The best example I can think of is this garage in Columbus Indiana. Notice the height of the first floor retail bays. If the developer would simply copy this garage, I think we would all be happy. Soft retail market or not, this is exactly what a progressive, smart, responsible, walkable, city would do. Hell, all we need to do is follow our own rules. CDC, I think we would all be perfectly happy if the space was used as office space, a day care for AUL, temporary storage whatever...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8027/7298224980_75d0d89e9e_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/64262017@N00/7298224980/)
Bistro 310 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/64262017@N00/7298224980/) by hostetlermatt (http://www.flickr.com/people/64262017@N00/), on Flickr

I think urban planning is really more of a discipline than an art.

I just looked back at the plan for the garage and am so pissed off that they had the adacitiy to propose that piece of crap. Seriously? Unfortunatly, I don't have high hopes that the city has given them any helpful guidance to correct the real problems. Also, from their renderings, it seems like they are moving forward with the same shitty streetscape with a suburban lawn on the wrong side of a narrow sidewalk. This is so depressing. Does anyone know when the next hearing is scheduled?

The sidewalk issue seems like a really big deal to me... I have always assumed this would get corrected as the project moved forward but I don't see it being addressed. One problem may be that the city or whoever planted the existing trees planted them in the wrong location. I'm guessing the idea was that surely in the future we will want a 50' setback and it really doesnt matter where we place these trees. I love trees and plant them for a living but I think there needs to be a serious discussion about whether existing trees are retained when they are planted in the wrong place. Somehow we keep planting trees right next to buildings when they should be placed next to the curb?

I just looked back at the plan for the garage and am so pissed off that they had the adacitiy to propose that piece of crap. Seriously? Unfortunatly, I don't have high hopes that the city has given them any helpful guidance to correct the real problems. Also, from their renderings, it seems like they are moving forward with the same shitty streetscape with a suburban lawn on the wrong side of a narrow sidewalk. This is so depressing. Does anyone know when the next hearing is scheduled?
It was continued to 6/14.

The Regional Center Hearing Examiner is also expected to review the design of a new school near 22nd and Meridian at that hearing. It's not in the same ballpark of awfulness as this garage, but it's a nice slice of pre-fab terrible.

http://fallcreekplace.com/modules/PNphpBB2/files/carpe_diem_elevation_new_web_169.jpg

No matter where in that block this parking garage is put, it will still be a half-block parking garage. It's across the street from two quarter-block parking garages. It's not a popular point of view, but I view structured parking as a necessary evil. It makes other streets much better.
I don't think anybody's arguing against the existence of the parking garage. Everybody will admit that garages are necessary in a city like Indy and a perfectly reasonable compromise to free land for the development of a project like Block 400.

The issue is the sanctity of the street edge. That's a precious resource and they're squandering it.

You could position this garage in the center of the block and offer ZERO retail -- but preserving the street edge for more activated uses in the future -- and I bet you could get most people to go along with that. It's the fact that they want to position the garage AT the street edge with damn near nothing active that's the issue.

I'll also point out that the garage across the street DOES have street level retail and it's completely full. In fact, there's hardly any vacant retail space in the immediate vicinity of this garage.

By the way, I live in the Englewood Neighborhood on East Washington Street. We (Englewood CDC and the Englewood Neighborhood) recently engaged in a lengthy yet productive discussion with Popeye's Louisiana Kitchen which plans to build a fast food restaurant at the corner of Washinton and Dearborn Streets. They initally proposed a very suburban plan with a large setback and parking lot and drive-thru near the street. We were able to push hard for a more urban building and siteplan. While its not perfect, I was pleasantly suprised that we were able to affect so much positive change. We were able to strategicly push for the building to be within 8 feet of the setback, push for floor to ceiling windows, reposition the parking lot and drive-thru and change the floorplan of the building. It wasn't easy but we got a lot of good advice from neighbors, city planners and formed a positive working relationship with the Popeye's folks. I will share plans soon to get your thoughts.

Developer's are great at saying what might be done in the future. This garage might become retail. This garage could be converted. The fact is, no one is going to pay the price to deal with this mess after the fact. With land as relatively cheap as it is, developers will go to the next open parcel or even out of the city. There are businesses out there crying for visability and would give their life for this frontage.......instead, a CITY PAID garage is tossing out all guidelines for the RC and is pissing away decades of serious potential. While there may not be an engineering sheet or pre-drawn architectural rendering out there that strays from this "design", all it takes is some work. You can engineer anything and an actual architect can design anything. Do we as a city really want these pieces of **** as our front doors?

It was continued to 6/14.

The Regional Center Hearing Examiner is also expected to review the design of a new school near 22nd and Meridian at that hearing. It's not in the same ballpark of awfulness as this garage, but it's a nice slice of pre-fab terrible.

http://fallcreekplace.com/modules/PNphpBB2/files/carpe_diem_elevation_new_web_169.jpg

It's much worse than the garage. This is DiRimini Jr., this time on Meridian Street.

I think urban planning is really more of a discipline than an art.

I would agree with you if the "discipline" did not include significant political and economic interfaces.

Some urban planners would have us believe that their discipline really no different from architecture and landscape architecture, just with a bigger site.

But urban planning is significantly different from pure design disciplines. It requires hard looks at the economics of neighborhoods and interplay with the politics of neighborhoods and (especially) multiple ownerships and timing of investments.

(Regarding the Englewood situation: I'd bet any amount of money that no matter what you tried, the Popeye's developer was unwilling to give up the drive-thru. Jack in the Box on North Meridian was the same situation...they proposed the city's best-looking fast-food outlet, with parking in back. With drive-thru.)

I know the DMD planners. I think they've probably made all the points that everyone here has made, and they're probably just as frustrated as y'all are. Somewhere, there's a budget for this garage that can't pay for anything better.

Im convinced that some of the people on here arent happy with any type of development

Im convinced that some of the people on here arent happy with any type of development

In the context of the discussion about the proposed garage, your comment is off the mark.

This is a development discussion group. Obviously, the individuals who participate in this forum have a passion for development. Most of the people on this board are development "nerds" and they get excited about lists of new and proposed construction projects.

However, individuals on this forum do not just want development for the sake of development. Rather, they want quality development, especially when the city (i.e. the taxpayers) are footing the bill for it.

It seems a pretty minor thing to ask for an aesthetically pleasing design for a monster garage taking up a whole downtown block that is being paid for by the city. No one is asking for it to be plated in gold and sprinkled with diamond dust, but they would like a more interesting facade and roof line, and a few points allowing for pedestrian interaction with the structure. Also, it does not seem like much of an imposition to require that the lower level ceiling be raised four or five feet so that some additional retail could eventually be added as the market dictates.

In the context of the discussion about the proposed garage, your comment is off the mark.

This is a development discussion group. Obviously, the individuals who participate in this forum have a passion for development. Most of the people on this board are development "nerds" and they get excited about lists of new and proposed construction projects.

However, individuals on this forum do not just want development for the sake of development. Rather, they want quality development, especially when the city (i.e. the taxpayers) are footing the bill for it.

It seems a pretty minor thing to ask for an aesthetically pleasing design for a monster garage taking up a whole downtown block that is being paid for by the city. No one is asking for it to be plated in gold and sprinkled with diamond dust, but they would like a more interesting facade and roof line, and a few points allowing for pedestrian interaction with the structure. Also, it does not seem like much of an imposition to require that the lower level ceiling be raised four or five feet so that some additional retail could eventually be added as the market dictates.

Great post! Yes, alot of cities and have interesting highrises, lowrises, and garages. Cannot say more, Kangaroo1 already said what alot of people are thinking.

By gum.. actual demolition! They have cutting torches and are removing the elevator on the building that is doomed.

With this, the fencing installed and some heavy equipment moved onto the site, the project is officially in "Site Prep" mode. Woot!

http://indianapolisparking.net/market2.jpg

Today there were workers inside the structure and some doors have had their boards removed and were being used. Definitely some real activity over there. The fence posts are all installed but the area isn't quite fenced off yet.

Double Woot!! Yes -- I noticed that they were removing some of the old aluminum panels toward the top of that elevator shaft earlier today. Great to see!

Is that the Bank One ops? Forgive this non-Indy resident for not knowing what we're looking at. But that's what I would think this was!!! Which is good news!

Is that the Bank One ops? Forgive this non-Indy resident for not knowing what we're looking at. But that's what I would think this was!!! Which is good news!

Yup! I just posted a thread with pix. I didn't follow guidelines on how to post threads.. because we can't seem to get the thread titles updated, so I don't see the point.. I mean, CityWay is still called "North of South Proposed" fer chrissakes..

Speaking of CityWay, I really need to get on top of the Virginia Avenue garage and take pix. A ton of building has been done that can't be seen from street level.

Saw this article by Mark Byrnes regarding the growing populatrity of Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) on the Atlantic Cities and thought that some might finding it interesting considering the Indyconnect plans use of BRT.

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2012/06/growing-popularity-bus-rapid-transit/2164/

That building is absolutely hideous, a mini-Wal-Mart, an atrocity!! Someone please sieze some sanity and kill it before it is born!

IBJ has a story concerning the development of the SW corner of 86th and Keystone. Some may remember it as the site of the old Venu proposal from a few years back. I don't have an on-line subscription to access the article but the intro for the article seems to hint that the plans have been "beefed up". I'll be picking up this week's IBJ to check it out, sounds interesting. Personally, I've always thought that the area around Keystone at the Crossing had great potential for a sizeable cluster of high-rise residential, hotel and office space.

Does anybody think Keystone is getting near a tipping point with traffic ? I've always seen keystone as the northside's downtown, something that has the potential to handle some real hustle and bustle. It'd be nice to see some proper bus stops, bigger sidewalks, better lighting, art work, or even set up a transit exchange, something that links downtown to the northside, allowing people to transfer at a location that has something to do, and somewhere to wonder around while waiting on your transfer. It just seems to make sense to, People that live inside the mote (465) tend not to like or need to go above 96th, and people on the northside don't tend to make it into 465 unless it's business related. at least that's what i've gathered. It just seems like there's a lot missing, for the potential that exists there.

Yup! I just posted a thread with pix. I didn't follow guidelines on how to post threads.. because we can't seem to get the thread titles updated, so I don't see the point.. I mean, CityWay is still called "North of South Proposed" fer chrissakes..

Speaking of CityWay, I really need to get on top of the Virginia Avenue garage and take pix. A ton of building has been done that can't be seen from street level.

Moochie:

I took these this past Monday. You are correct with saying it gives a true sense of how large and how much larger CityWay will become by next summer. It it awesome to see so many residential and retail projects moving forward for the city!

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8009/7289504696_d43fa1607d.jpg

Does anybody think Keystone is getting near a tipping point with traffic ? I've always seen keystone as the northside's downtown, something that has the potential to handle some real hustle and bustle. It'd be nice to see some proper bus stops, bigger sidewalks, better lighting, art work, or even set up a transit exchange, something that links downtown to the northside, allowing people to transfer at a location that has something to do, and somewhere to wonder around while waiting on your transfer. It just seems to make sense to, People that live inside the mote (465) tend not to like or need to go above 96th, and people on the northside don't tend to make it into 465 unless it's business related. at least that's what i've gathered. It just seems like there's a lot missing, for the potential that exists there.

What part of Keystone? There are distinct segments:

--I-70 to Fall Creek/Binford (urban/1st ring suburban gritty mixed use)
--Binford to White River (postwar strip-mall IN431 bypass commercial)
--White River to 80th (floodplain residential on stilts and fill)
--Keystone Crossing jungle, 80th to 96th (original midrise exurban "edge city" at IN431 and IN100, now Keystone & 86th)
--Keystone Parkway (whatever)

The sidewalks mostly stop at Binford/Fall Creek, and are intermittent northward. The street (best description of this kind of arterial is "stroad") does have one of IndyGo's few "crosstown" routes, one that does not go downtown. It has important nodes at the enterprise zone/business park (23rd), Binford (Fall Creek Trail), Glendale, and 86th.

Does anybody think Keystone is getting near a tipping point with traffic ? I've always seen keystone as the northside's downtown, something that has the potential to handle some real hustle and bustle. It'd be nice to see some proper bus stops, bigger sidewalks, better lighting, art work, or even set up a transit exchange, something that links downtown to the northside, allowing people to transfer at a location that has something to do, and somewhere to wonder around while waiting on your transfer. It just seems to make sense to, People that live inside the mote (465) tend not to like or need to go above 96th, and people on the northside don't tend to make it into 465 unless it's business related. at least that's what i've gathered. It just seems like there's a lot missing, for the potential that exists there.

This is all good stuff. I agree with you but getting the transit side of things moving is like pushing a dead rhino...

Marion county residents are NIMBYs about everything to the point where a communist board gets to decide to a tee what kind of windows someone should have in a building on their own property- and still yet have 3-4 hearings and turn it down in the end. If you dont own the property, it shouldnt really be any of your business whats built on it unless is can cause a public health/safety concern. The great cities of the past were not built on excess regulation, they were built with the idea that people had property rights on land they owned outright. No wonder development gets shelved in the city and moved to the suburbs. Only idiots would subject themselves to operating a business under those circumstances. Here's to a dead city that's rotting from the inside out - and I dont say this as a troll. I say this as someone who would love to see the city succeed, but is frustrated that it wont.

Anyone have a synopsis of what the IBJ article had to say about Keystone? I can't read it and don't have access to an IBJ down here. So, any details would be nice. :)

Sunday Bloody Sundae: "No wonder development gets shelved in the city and moved to the suburbs. Only idiots would subject themselves to operating a business under those circumstances. Here's to a dead city that's rotting from the inside out ..."

Yes -- its terrible. I think there are only about 2,700 new residential units being built in the core of our city right now.

Yes -- there are designated historic districts where a board can rule on how improvements should be made for historic structures. Those designated historic areas probably represent about 3% of all of the homes in Marion County. Outside of those areas - there is no "communist board" that tells the other 97% of the people in the county how they can or cannot fix their windows. There is also a process in place that allows the residents who live in historic neighborhoods to vote to decide whether they want their neighborhood to be a designated historic district. In other words - yes there are strict requirements in place for how people's houses can look - but the decision to live in a neighborhood with those types of restrictions is a decision that was approved by the majority of the people who live there and who voted on the decision. Your ranting about window issues is definitely way over the top and not realistic of the actual situation in the vast majority of Marion County.

I do respect your opinion about the condition of the city. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you really think our city is "rotting from the inside out" - okay, I understand that that is the way you feel. If anything though -- I'd say the bigger problem now is the condition of the housing in the "inner suburban" areas. Those areas built outside the core historic neighborhoods that grew in the 40's - 70's without sidewalks and lots of cheaper construction. I'm much more worried about those areas than the core of our city.

Are we in agreement then that more often than not, urban buildings should be built with appropriate retail style window systems that can accomodate various uses, retail, office or general flex space? Obviously this is not oppropriate for all areas and all building typologies, town homes schools or other government buildings for example. In general, however, most commercial or standard mixed-use building should follow this simple rule. I've seen far too many buildings (especially newer buildings) built in Indy that don't interface appropriatly with the right-of-way. Even many of our retail buildings use inappropriate window and entry systems.

YES! And, IMO, the worst example of a new building that does this is 3 Mass Ave - where Ball n Biscuit & Bazbeaux are located. The windows on the project make me so angry every time I walk past there! They essentially are the same size as the residential units above.

As for the residential project in the NW quad (I can't remember the name) with the Marsh - has anyone found out why the number of units has been cut by 150???

YES! And, IMO, the worst example of a new building that does this is 3 Mass Ave - where Ball n Biscuit & Bazbeaux are located. The windows on the project make me so angry every time I walk past there! They essentially are the same size as the residential units above.

As for the residential project in the NW quad (I can't remember the name) with the Marsh - has anyone found out why the number of units has been cut by 150???

I'm not convinced they've been cut. There are 2 sites with housing, and if you add them together, you come up with the original number. I think perhaps someone listed just one site in an article somewhere and we all reacted.

I could be wrong.

IBJ has a story concerning the development of the SW corner of 86th and Keystone. Some may remember it as the site of the old Venu proposal from a few years back. I don't have an on-line subscription to access the article but the intro for the article seems to hint that the plans have been "beefed up". I'll be picking up this week's IBJ to check it out, sounds interesting. Personally, I've always thought that the area around Keystone at the Crossing had great potential for a sizeable cluster of high-rise residential, hotel and office space.

I hope it's beefed up. The Venu was such an awesome proposal and then when I heard a suburban-type low-rise development was coming, I was very disappointed. I agree that the Keystone @ the Crossing area seems very ripe for residential high rise. The south tower of the Sheraton attached to the Fashion Mall was recently converted to residential, so the area now has at least one official high rise residential tower...

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20120602/ISSUE01/120609968/where-would-you-put-your-corporate-hq

I think this is a very interesting article. Of the top 50 Metros in the US Indianapolis is the most affordable to locate your Corporate HQ.
So lets ask the question what kind of companies should we entice to relocate their Corporate Headquarters here and why?
My top picks are Mc Donalds/Abbott Labatories/Wells Fargo/CME group and Franklin Templeton investments.
Those 3 states Illinois/Californiastan/New York have the worst tax code and business climates in the country :)

So im curious to hear your guy's picks for bringing new companies to Indianapolis both Corporate HQ and abroad.

My 3 companies I would entice to bring their headquarters to Indy would be, in no particular order:

Hawaiian Airlines
California Power and Light
New York Jets

I think the reasons are obvious!!

YES! And, IMO, the worst example of a new building that does this is 3 Mass Ave - where Ball n Biscuit & Bazbeaux are located. The windows on the project make me so angry every time I walk past there! They essentially are the same size as the residential units above.

As for the residential project in the NW quad (I can't remember the name) with the Marsh - has anyone found out why the number of units has been cut by 150???

agreed, those windows are not appropriate!

perhaps the best questions is if we are so cheap for corporate headquarters, why aren;'t they lined up to come here? ..............we all know the answers. CEOs look for quality of life measurements as much as the cost of locating their headquarters, though with how much money states (including Indiana) throw at companies it is a surprising checklist. There is also the old saying that a corporation is located where the wife's family lives.

I'm not convinced they've been cut. There are 2 sites with housing, and if you add them together, you come up with the original number. I think perhaps someone listed just one site in an article somewhere and we all reacted.

I could be wrong.

Agreed. The number is lower because it only includes the total from phase 1.

Anyone have a synopsis of what the IBJ article had to say about Keystone? I can't read it and don't have access to an IBJ down here. So, any details would be nice. :)
4 stories
30k sq.ft. first-floor retail
90 upscale apartments above
100 space underground parking for residents
Surface parking for the retail portion
$20M total

Marion county residents are NIMBYs about everything to the point where a communist board gets to decide to a tee what kind of windows someone should have in a building on their own property- and still yet have 3-4 hearings and turn it down in the end. If you dont own the property, it shouldnt really be any of your business whats built on it unless is can cause a public health/safety concern. The great cities of the past were not built on excess regulation, they were built with the idea that people had property rights on land they owned outright. No wonder development gets shelved in the city and moved to the suburbs. Only idiots would subject themselves to operating a business under those circumstances. Here's to a dead city that's rotting from the inside out - and I dont say this as a troll. I say this as someone who would love to see the city succeed, but is frustrated that it wont.

A "communist board?" Really, do you have to play crazy? I have no problem with people expressing their point of view, but spouting absurd hyperbole and posting wildly inaccurate comments is not intelligent or useful communication.

If you have something to contribute to the general conversation of development, then by all means articulate a reasoned argument. If you just want to rant like a loon, then save it for a different forum. Or better yet, burn off your excess energy with a long morning jog.

And, if you truly believe Indianapolis is a "dead city," then pick up and move.

What a waste! I picked up a copy of the IBJ for the article concerning the proposal for 86th and Keystone, the same site where the Venu was proposed. Although it looks like a nice development I'm not certain it is ideal for that site. This proposal seems like it would be more appropriate for Broad Ripple or, dare I say it: downtown.

A "communist board?" Really, do you have to play crazy? I have no problem with people expressing their point of view, but spouting absurd hyperbole and posting wildly inaccurate comments is not intelligent or useful communication.

If you have something to contribute to the general conversation of development, then by all means articulate a reasoned argument. If you just want to rant like a loon, then save it for a different forum. Or better yet, burn off your excess energy with a long morning jog.

And, if you truly believe Indianapolis is a "dead city," then pick up and move.

I believe he lives in Franklin. Perhaps he's upset by the far more stringent "communist boards" there. Dunno. His comments do seem a bit off the wall, I mean, the suburbs are largely far worse. My brother lives in Fishers.. you wouldn't believe what he's had to go through.

4 stories
30k sq.ft. first-floor retail
90 upscale apartments above
100 space underground parking for residents
Surface parking for the retail portion
$20M total

If I understood the story correctly, the 4-story building is to be built up to the 86th/Keystone edges and the surface parking will be "in back".

IOW, Carmel New Urbanism: the vast majority of residents, tenants, and visitors will come and go by car. There's no less parking than any other suburban place, no transit, no bike lanes.

If I understood the story correctly, the 4-story building is to be built up to the 86th/Keystone edges and the surface parking will be "in back".

IOW, Carmel New Urbanism: the vast majority of residents, tenants, and visitors will come and go by car. There's no less parking than any other suburban place, no transit, no bike lanes.

At least in Carmel, they have some trails to use.

The market demands, yet the market does not deliver on transit, bike lanes, etc

My 3 companies I would entice to bring their headquarters to Indy would be, in no particular order:

Hawaiian Airlines
California Power and Light
New York Jets

I think the reasons are obvious!!

lol.

What about Apple? or anything from Silicon Valley? oh for crying out loud we have Purdue here! theres a good network to bring them here.
anyone else have a top 3 or 5 list of fortune 500 companies to bring to Indy?

4 stories
30k sq.ft. first-floor retail
90 upscale apartments above
100 space underground parking for residents
Surface parking for the retail portion
$20M total

Well, that's a MAJOR let down for that parcel. I suppose they feared the NIMBY army if they went with anything bigger.

This is pleasantly surprising news. Hopefully the trend continues. The more people that use IndyGo, the more likely we will see improved public transit funding.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120606/LOCAL/206060312/IndyGo-ridership-up-almost-20-start-year-7th-largest-gain-country?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|News

The former Borders site finally has a new tenant. A bank.

http://blogs.indystar.com/bizbuzz/2012/06/06/former-downtown-borders-has-a-new-tenant/

The former Borders site finally has a new tenant. A bank.

http://blogs.indystar.com/bizbuzz/2012/06/06/former-downtown-borders-has-a-new-tenant/

Wow. Just what downtown needs. Another bank with big ideas.

lol.

What about Apple? or anything from Silicon Valley? oh for crying out loud we have Purdue here! theres a good network to bring them here.
anyone else have a top 3 or 5 list of fortune 500 companies to bring to Indy?

Walmart. It's perfect for Indy/Indiana: low cost, low wage, low service, no style or pretense.

But rural Arkansas probably suits them better on every count.

Walmart. It's perfect for Indy/Indiana: low cost, low wage, low service, no style or pretense.

But rural Arkansas probably suits them better on every count.

lol Indy doesnt have low wages and low services....... plus Indy has style.
As i said Indianapolis has both IU and Purdue Universities to bring in Tech Companies.

The former Borders site finally has a new tenant. A bank.

http://blogs.indystar.com/bizbuzz/2012/06/06/former-downtown-borders-has-a-new-tenant/

How uninspiring. I really hoped this corner would have become standalone retail or restaurant space.

Not sure if this should go in here, or the suburban development, so I'll put it in both!

IBJ reports: (http://www.ibj.com/property-lines-2012-06-06-check-out-a-new-rendering-of-the--20m-ironworks-project/PARAMS/post/34823)
A Wisconsin developer has scaled up its plans for the southwest corner of East 86th Street and Keystone Avenue across from The Fashion Mall at Keystone. A new version of the proposal from Hendricks Commercial Properties calls for a four-story “L”-shaped building with about 30,000 square feet of restaurants and retail on the first floor and 90 high-end apartments on the upper three floors. The plans call for an urban-style layout with the building abutting the intersection and surface parking for shoppers and diners behind. An underground parking garage with about 100 spaces would accommodate residents of the development, dubbed Ironworks at Keystone Village. The project likely would cost $20 million to build, industry sources said, and is far more ambitious than an earlier proposal that called for a small retail strip, a few outlots for restaurants and a possible hotel. The goal: land a restaurant anchor that would take up to 10,000 square feet and round out the mix with more fast-casual restaurants and a variety of other retail users, said Sitehawk principal Mark Perlstein, who is handling leasing.
http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/blog/propertylines/I/Ironworks-86th-view1.jpg
http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/blog/propertylines/I/Ironworks-Storefronts.jpg

Opinions? I personally like it, it adds some development in a corner between two huge intersections (86th. & Keystone), plus it will hopefully add to the already great options of shopping and dining in the area! I just hope the restaurant is something more upscale, and the stores aren't huge chains.

Wow. Just what downtown needs. Another bank with big ideas.

I think before it was Borders, it was a bank for about 90 years. At least it's a locally-based one.

I dont live in indy. I lived downtown at one point and got tired of my car being busted into or being asked if I want to buy drugs out of lunchboxes. I moved to a place that makes economic sense and if you want your city to prosper with middle class people you need to pay attention. The only options I had in my income level in indy were areas that were very rough but littered with nice houses, or areas downtown with the boards that allow your neighbors to decide what you do on your own property, with your own money. If allowing the collective whole to decide what the individual does on their own property with their own $ isnt communisn, then its statism, but it surely isnt american. I dont live in a vinyl village either.... they do the same thing. The neighborhood I live in is 1850s to 1920s. We dont have historical preservation mandates or neighborhood asshole-siations in my neighborhood, yet the neighborhood is still very nice, the lawns are well kept, and people take care of their homes. AND I am allowed to have energy efficient windows and live with modern updates and luxuries. Indy doesnt have that. I paid $50k for my house and have little to no crime. You can have your high taxed, snobby liberal way of life and I will live in a more common sense fashion. Enjoy!

I dont live in indy. I lived downtown at one point and got tired of my car being busted into or being asked if I want to buy drugs out of lunchboxes. I moved to a place that makes economic sense and if you want your city to prosper with middle class people you need to pay attention. The only options I had in my income level in indy were areas that were very rough but littered with nice houses, or areas downtown with the boards that allow your neighbors to decide what you do on your own property, with your own money. If allowing the collective whole to decide what the individual does on their own property with their own $ isnt communisn, then its statism, but it surely isnt american. I dont live in a vinyl village either.... they do the same thing. The neighborhood I live in is 1850s to 1920s. We dont have historical preservation mandates or neighborhood asshole-siations in my neighborhood, yet the neighborhood is still very nice, the lawns are well kept, and people take care of their homes. AND I am allowed to have energy efficient windows and live with modern updates and luxuries. Indy doesnt have that. I paid $50k for my house and have little to no crime. You can have your high taxed, snobby liberal way of life and I will live in a more common sense fashion. Enjoy!

Indy does have that. In Center Township. With grass and trees and a big park within walking distance. But the house might cost you $55K.

Also Lawrence, and probably lots of other places in Marion County.

Please.. I made the mistake of attending Vincennes University for a couple years on a scholarship.. I had more trouble living in that "idyllic little town" with drug dealers, car breakins corrupt police and the like than I've ever had living downtown Indy. My first and only experience living in a small town. Never again.

You can have your high taxed, snobby liberal way of life and I will live in a more common sense fashion. Enjoy!

Thank you. I will.

I dont live in indy. I lived downtown at one point and got tired of my car being busted into or being asked if I want to buy drugs out of lunchboxes. I moved to a place that makes economic sense and if you want your city to prosper with middle class people you need to pay attention. The only options I had in my income level in indy were areas that were very rough but littered with nice houses, or areas downtown with the boards that allow your neighbors to decide what you do on your own property, with your own money. If allowing the collective whole to decide what the individual does on their own property with their own $ isnt communisn, then its statism, but it surely isnt american. I dont live in a vinyl village either.... they do the same thing. The neighborhood I live in is 1850s to 1920s. We dont have historical preservation mandates or neighborhood asshole-siations in my neighborhood, yet the neighborhood is still very nice, the lawns are well kept, and people take care of their homes. AND I am allowed to have energy efficient windows and live with modern updates and luxuries. Indy doesnt have that. I paid $50k for my house and have little to no crime. You can have your high taxed, snobby liberal way of life and I will live in a more common sense fashion. Enjoy!

At first I didn't take you seriously because you don't know the definition of communism and what it truly means. It's not just some word you can use for everything you disagree with. You should probably hit the history books.

But then I saw the word "liberal" and realized you really think everything comes down to political views. Since I'm for useful and structured urban development, I can't be a conservative, then? Oh well, now I really know not take your seriously, you're just here to insult people for your jollies. Simple enough.

Hope your enjoying your home, just let us enjoy ours. If you want to have a conversation without insults, we're all open, but you seem to enjoy just calling people names.

Now, wanna buy some drugs out of my lunchbox?

I dont live in indy. I lived downtown at one point and got tired of my car being busted into or being asked if I want to buy drugs out of lunchboxes. I moved to a place that makes economic sense and if you want your city to prosper with middle class people you need to pay attention. The only options I had in my income level in indy were areas that were very rough but littered with nice houses, or areas downtown with the boards that allow your neighbors to decide what you do on your own property, with your own money. If allowing the collective whole to decide what the individual does on their own property with their own $ isnt communisn, then its statism, but it surely isnt american. I dont live in a vinyl village either.... they do the same thing. The neighborhood I live in is 1850s to 1920s. We dont have historical preservation mandates or neighborhood asshole-siations in my neighborhood, yet the neighborhood is still very nice, the lawns are well kept, and people take care of their homes. AND I am allowed to have energy efficient windows and live with modern updates and luxuries. Indy doesnt have that. I paid $50k for my house and have little to no crime. You can have your high taxed, snobby liberal way of life and I will live in a more common sense fashion. Enjoy!

Sundae, I suppose most of Republican Orange County is an example of anti-Americanism under your logic. As are many other places otherwise noted for their conservatism, as they generally have strict covenants and/or zoning dictating even what color you can paint your house.

If you want to rant and call people names, then you should find another forum. I would have no problem if you were smart enough to make a good argument espousing libertarianism/conservatism, but you are no William F. Buckley, Jr. You are not even Anne Coulter. Your comments are not relevant to anything being discussed, or at least you lack the courtesy to make reference to what you're complaining about. You simply have come off in two posts now sounding like a two-year old child throwing a temper-tantrum.

Was there a project or issue being discussed you wished to comment on? Or, were you simply trying to convince us that you are wignut? If it was the latter, you succeed.

A couple more from the 62nd street trail taking shape just east of Keystone Ave

http://www.urbanindy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/62nd_trail_642012_1.jpg

http://www.urbanindy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/62nd_trail_642012_3.jpg

Are you being serious? Kid, you need a lesson in REALITY. Get off your computer and get some experience in the real world.

Silicon Valley tech companies are going to relocate to Indiana? This is absurd on every imaginable level. Indiana is the antithesis of the tech culture.

I wouldn't necessarily agree. In the early to mid 90's, at the start of the dotcom boom, IUPUI was right at the top of tech culture believe it or not. I really don't know why we didn't capitalize.

I wouldn't necessarily agree. In the early to mid 90's, at the start of the dotcom boom, IUPUI was right at the top of tech culture believe it or not. I really don't know why we didn't capitalize.

It's still pretty high up in tech culture - the relatively-new IT building houses some of the most advanced technology research going on in the midwest, if not the nation, relating to the internet and other information tech. The School of Informatics also has one of the only state-of-the-art android science & research centers - and I don't mean the phone operation system - they study social robotics and how humans interact with them. It's also ranked as one of the best places to work in technology.

I've also noticed Indy has a quickly-growing number of startup technology businesses. When talking to someone visiting from out of town, he told me this feels like the Silicon Valley of the midwest.

That may not be enough to bring actual Silicon Valley companies to the midwest, of course, but it's pretty impressive when people don't think of Indy as much as a technology hub.

The former Borders site finally has a new tenant. A bank.

http://blogs.indystar.com/bizbuzz/2012/06/06/former-downtown-borders-has-a-new-tenant/

BOO!! That is PRIME space that should not house a bank. I've said it before and will keep saying it, with the windows and its location, that space would be ideal for a Pottery Barn or Crate & Barrel. There are plenty of other cities our size with 2 locations in the metro and a downtown location for either would capture south side shoppers

The conventional wisdom is that the next tech boom will be in the medical field. With IU medical school being among the best in the world, Eli Lilly being the thousand pound gorilla that's kept Indy from turning into Dayton Ohio for all these decades, the School of Informatics and a large smattering of life science startups, we definitely could be on the verge of something great in coming decades.

But as far as luring Apple or somesuch.. that's a pipedream. We're going to have to build it ourselves.

It's still pretty high up in tech culture - the relatively-new IT building houses some of the most advanced technology research going on in the midwest, if not the nation, relating to the internet and other information tech. The School of Informatics also has one of the only state-of-the-art android science & research centers - and I don't mean the phone operation system - they study social robotics and how humans interact with them. It's also ranked as one of the best places to work in technology.

I've also noticed Indy has a quickly-growing number of startup technology businesses. When talking to someone visiting from out of town, he told me this feels like the Silicon Valley of the midwest.

That may not be enough to bring actual Silicon Valley companies to the midwest, of course, but it's pretty impressive when people don't think of Indy as much as a technology hub.

The conventional wisdom is that the next tech boom will be in the medical field. With IU medical school being among the best in the world, Eli Lilly being the thousand pound gorilla that's kept Indy from turning into Dayton Ohio for all these decades, the School of Informatics and a large smattering of life science startups, we definitely could be on the verge of something great in coming decades.

Indeed, I didn't even consider the medical side. The potential growth in all of these areas are a big reason why I love Indy.

Indeed, I didn't even consider the medical side. The potential growth in all of these areas are a big reason why I love Indy.

If I was a bit younger, I'd probably have gotten my degree in Bioinformatics. That's a fascinating field that has nowere to go but up. IU is the best place in the world to go for it.

I'm sick of going to school however, and I've been self employed for so long that I think I'd have a great deal of trouble integrating myself into any discipline... or any workplace for that matter...

Silicon Valley tech companies are going to relocate to Indiana? This is absurd on every imaginable level. Indiana is the antithesis of the tech culture.

I've read this a few times, and I just can't get my head around what you mean here.. Your statement is wildly inaccurate.. Just look at Purdue and Rose Hulman and others in IN being some of the finest tech schools in the world with traditions and culture going back... how long?

Anyhoo, obviously I didn't understand what you meant to say.. Would you please clarify?

A couple more from the 62nd street trail taking shape just east of Keystone Ave

http://www.urbanindy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/62nd_trail_642012_1.jpg

http://www.urbanindy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/62nd_trail_642012_3.jpg

By no means is this intended as a criticism of you, Curt, but the "trail" vs. "sidewalk" semantic distinction has long gotten my goat. I feel like "trail" is little more than a politicized, euphemistic buzzword to suggest that this piece of infrastructure is wedded to active/outdoorsy amenities. Ultimately, it's an attempt to hide the reality: that it's a basic part of metropolitan living--i.e., the much more utilitarian "sidewalk". If it is broader than 4 feet, paved with asphalt of some surface other than concrete, uses signage to link with other legitimate trails that don't necessarily trace the street easement, and features occasional benches or drinking fountains, maybe it makes a legitimate claim as a trail. Otherwise, can't we just admit this is a sidewalk that is 40 years overdue?

Correct me if this really is going to be something other than a sidewalk. I haven't been following Indy development for the past 18 months as well as I used to. I'm happy to eat my words if I'm wrong.

BOO!! That is PRIME space that should not house a bank. I've said it before and will keep saying it, with the windows and its location, that space would be ideal for a Pottery Barn or Crate & Barrel. There are plenty of other cities our size with 2 locations in the metro and a downtown location for either would capture south side shoppers

From the IBJ description, it sounds like the "nicer" portion of the old Borders space remains to be leased; this is just the absolute corner and is less than half of the GLA. Most expectations are that it will eventually host a restaurant. I agree--hard to get too excited about a bank, but property management agencies love them. They usually make great tenants, and it's better than the space remaining vacant.

By no means is this intended as a criticism of you, Curt, but the "trail" vs. "sidewalk" semantic distinction has long gotten my goat. I feel like "trail" is little more than a politicized, euphemistic buzzword to suggest that this piece of infrastructure is wedded to active/outdoorsy amenities. Ultimately, it's an attempt to hide the reality: that it's a basic part of metropolitan living--i.e., the much more utilitarian "sidewalk". If it is broader than 4 feet, paved with asphalt of some surface other than concrete, uses signage to link with other legitimate trails that don't necessarily trace the street easement, and features occasional benches or drinking fountains, maybe it makes a legitimate claim as a trail. Otherwise, can't we just admit this is a sidewalk that is 40 years overdue?

Correct me if this really is going to be something other than a sidewalk. I haven't been following Indy development for the past 18 months as well as I used to. I'm happy to eat my words if I'm wrong.

You more than most have a right to lodge a valid concern. I guess you could say that this is a glorified sidewalk. I do not know what sort of signage it will contain or whether it will have benches. I DO know that there was not a sidewalk here previously. They are removing an entire automobile travel lane and creating a walking/biking facility that is separated by a grass divider.

While I think it should be common sense to build sidewalks on every street in the urban area (hello complete streets) this project goes above and beyond in my opinion. It connects two distinct and separated bike lanes, creates a path to the Monon Trail, removes a lane of automobile right of way, and also melds bus stops into it's design. They are all clear indicators of the right thing to do, which is often times glossed over here in Indy

That sounds better - that there is still an opportunity for a restaurant to go in on the corner of Washington and Meridian. The bank should look impressive in that two story - former bank space in the "southern" half of the former Borders space. Hopefully the corner will be considered prime enough for another decent restaurant and we will see something go in fairly soon.

By no means is this intended as a criticism of you, Curt, but the "trail" vs. "sidewalk" semantic distinction has long gotten my goat. I feel like "trail" is little more than a politicized, euphemistic buzzword to suggest that this piece of infrastructure is wedded to active/outdoorsy amenities. Ultimately, it's an attempt to hide the reality: that it's a basic part of metropolitan living--i.e., the much more utilitarian "sidewalk". If it is broader than 4 feet, paved with asphalt of some surface other than concrete, uses signage to link with other legitimate trails that don't necessarily trace the street easement, and features occasional benches or drinking fountains, maybe it makes a legitimate claim as a trail. Otherwise, can't we just admit this is a sidewalk that is 40 years overdue?

Correct me if this really is going to be something other than a sidewalk. I haven't been following Indy development for the past 18 months as well as I used to. I'm happy to eat my words if I'm wrong.

I believe the correct semantic would be the one used in Hamilton County: multi-user path. This path is intended to be a connection between the Broad Ripple Ave. bike lane (which ends on the west side of Keystone) and the Allisonville Road bike lane as much as it's a sidewalk to connect the "Glendale neighborhood" east of Rural to, well, Glendale.

Well... what's going on here?

:omg::rant::storm::popcorn::runaway:

I'll be back.

By no means is this intended as a criticism of you, Curt, but the "trail" vs. "sidewalk" semantic distinction has long gotten my goat. I feel like "trail" is little more than a politicized, euphemistic buzzword to suggest that this piece of infrastructure is wedded to active/outdoorsy amenities. Ultimately, it's an attempt to hide the reality: that it's a basic part of metropolitan living--i.e., the much more utilitarian "sidewalk". If it is broader than 4 feet, paved with asphalt of some surface other than concrete, uses signage to link with other legitimate trails that don't necessarily trace the street easement, and features occasional benches or drinking fountains, maybe it makes a legitimate claim as a trail. Otherwise, can't we just admit this is a sidewalk that is 40 years overdue?

Correct me if this really is going to be something other than a sidewalk. I haven't been following Indy development for the past 18 months as well as I used to. I'm happy to eat my words if I'm wrong.

I use paths like these to bike to work about 50% of the time here in Wisconsin, and I can assure you that these are much more suitable for biking than typical sidewalks would be. These paths are always wider than sidewalks and allow for comfortably biking at high speeds past other pedestrians or bikers. With traditional sidewalks bikers often have to veer off in the grass to pass other people or awkwardly wait behind them. These paths also typically don't have steep drop offs at intersections, and are usually completely flat at private driveways unlike sidewalks. These paths typically carry just as much if not more non-motorized commuters than the trails you described. I'm comfortable calling these structures paths although I guess the meaning of the name path can be debated.

DowntownIndianapolis and Hoosier; please take your conversation to pm's and let's get this thread back on track please. Thank you.

DowntownIndianapolis and Hoosier; please take your conversation to pm's and let's get this thread back on track please. Thank you.

"On track" has many meanings on this thread. Though we clearly disagree politically, we generally have accepted that the politics and regulation of development can be fair game. This isn't the worst of the un-civil exchanges here.

Moreover, Indiana elects a governor and general assembly this year. Politics and policy are inevitably interwtined under those circumstances.

We typically are able to self-moderate this stuff, and it seems curious to me that for the first time in the 4 or 5 years that I've been participating here the moderators/administrators stepped in.

Which is to say, why now, and why for this?

Maybe someone (not me) complained. I'm glad the mods intervened.. the topic wasn't out of bounds, the tone of the discussion was getting pretty offensive, and the conversation was no longer constructive.

Anyhoo, an interesting article below. The first purely speculative commercial real estate development since 2008 has broken ground at Keystone Crossing. These kinds of things give me hope for a recovering economy... even though it looks suburban sprawly...

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?ID=54109

"On track" has many meanings on this thread. Though we clearly disagree politically, we generally have accepted that the politics and regulation of development can be fair game. This isn't the worst of the un-civil exchanges here.

Moreover, Indiana elects a governor and general assembly this year. Politics and policy are inevitably interwtined under those circumstances.

We typically are able to self-moderate this stuff, and it seems curious to me that for the first time in the 4 or 5 years that I've been participating here the moderators/administrators stepped in.

Which is to say, why now, and why for this?

It's still pretty high up in tech culture - the relatively-new IT building houses some of the most advanced technology research going on in the midwest, if not the nation, relating to the internet and other information tech. The School of Informatics also has one of the only state-of-the-art android science & research centers - and I don't mean the phone operation system - they study social robotics and how humans interact with them. It's also ranked as one of the best places to work in technology.

I've also noticed Indy has a quickly-growing number of startup technology businesses. When talking to someone visiting from out of town, he told me this feels like the Silicon Valley of the midwest.

That may not be enough to bring actual Silicon Valley companies to the midwest, of course, but it's pretty impressive when people don't think of Indy as much as a technology hub.

With IUPUi's CGT(Computer Graphics Technology) and New Media programs we are gaining a lot of talent it Indy. We have a ton of agency's that work on national accounts, and places like ExactTarget and Compendium who are market leaders who are all stocked with talent from IupuI, Purdue West Lafayette, Ball State and Herron. As A Renn would say a cluster. Also lots of other tech companies. I think in ten years Indy could become recognized as a major player.

"On track" has many meanings on this thread. Though we clearly disagree politically, we generally have accepted that the politics and regulation of development can be fair game. This isn't the worst of the un-civil exchanges here.

Moreover, Indiana elects a governor and general assembly this year. Politics and policy are inevitably interwtined under those circumstances.

We typically are able to self-moderate this stuff, and it seems curious to me that for the first time in the 4 or 5 years that I've been participating here the moderators/administrators stepped in.

Which is to say, why now, and why for this?

I was also surprised to see a message from a moderator, and I am sure as Moochie noted it is because someone complained (not me, either).

I think the topic was not the issue, nor the strong disagreement. I am sure it was the angry name-calling and railing against each other back and forth. Also, these two have been arguing with each other and trading insults in this forum and others for over a year. So, it was not a one-time event.

I have certainly got into debates with people on this board, but while I may post a pointed comment, I do make every effort to avoid taking a vulgar, rude, or obnoxious tone. I have noticed this is not always the case with others, but I think it passes without moderator intervention because those who drop one or two nasty comments get told by others to back off, and they usually do.

With IUPUi's CGT(Computer Graphics Technology) and New Media programs we are gaining a lot of talent it Indy. We have a ton of agency's that work on national accounts, and places like ExactTarget and Compendium who are market leaders who are all stocked with talent from IupuI, Purdue West Lafayette, Ball State and Herron. As A Renn would say a cluster. Also lots of other tech companies. I think in ten years Indy could become recognized as a major player.

I didn't know that life sciences was a 44 billion $$ a year industry in Indiana with 225 new startups in the past 5 years... although when you think about it, Eli Lilly is the monster that probably accounts for most of it.

http://www.biocrossroads.com/We-Connect/Overview/Indiana-life-sciences.aspx

Indiana’s life sciences industry delivers a $44 billion economic impact to the state Compared to other states and regions, we have a significant competitive advantage because of our focus on cultivating a skilled workforce, engaged university and academic institutions, strong philanthropic support, novel public-private partnerships, access to capital and a positive business climate.

I object to the notion that some have the the "tech culture" is all internet/software/facebook etc in Silicon Valley. That is a very narrow part of the field, and we'll continue to see the convergence of all technologies in that the health care industry needs software engineers and developers and web designers and hardware engineers and graphic designers etc. etc. etc. etc.

Anyhoo, assuming that the next tech boom will be in the medical field, we'll be in a very good position to capitalize with Lilly, IU Medical, and Purdue engineering (top 10 engineering school in the world thank you very much) and many more.

Keystone revamps Broad Ripple garage after zoning defeat

The developer of a $15 million parking garage and retail project in Broad Ripple has overhauled its plans to comply with flood-plain rules and expects to start construction this month.


This was the lead paragraph for a story on IBJ on-line, for which I do not have a subscription. Apparently the revised plan is okay now - and construction will be starting within a few weeks.