Ties for 32nd and 34th.

From NewGeography.com

Here's an explanation of the list methodology:

The Brookings Institution ranked the 100 largest metros by averaging the ranks for four key indicators: employment change, unemployment change, gross metropolitan product, and home price change. Employment was measured by the change from the peak quarter for each metro to the second quarter of 2009. The peak was the quarter in which the metro had the most jobs during the past five years. Unemployment was ranked by measuring the percentage-point change from the first quarter of 2009 to the second quarter of 2009. Gross metropolitan product was measured from the peak quarter to the second quarter of 2009. And the ranking of home prices compared the second quarter of 2009 to the previous quarter. The employment data were provided by Moody's Economy.com, the unemployment data were collected from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, and the home price index came from the Federal Housing Finance Agency.

---

Using "average" ranks of other lists is a really suspect methodology, especially ranks of growth measures when some of the cities are much smaller...as much as an order of magnitude or two. Really, how can one compare Dallas or Houston or Denver or Indianapolis with Poughkeepsie?

It yields absurd results and the list isn't worth the waste of pixels.

The presentation is long, and a little crude at times with hand sketches and such, but its a step. The 22nd & Monon workshop Community Presentation

http://www.aia.org/aiaucmp/groups/aia/documents/pdf/aiab081537.pdf

Their website
http://www.smartgrowthindy.org/

The presentation is long, and a little crude at times with hand sketches and such, but its a step. The 22nd & Monon workshop Community Presentation

http://www.aia.org/aiaucmp/groups/aia/documents/pdf/aiab081537.pdf

Their website
http://www.smartgrowthindy.org/

I wish I were there to hear the actual presentation. I really like the preliminary plans and hope that we all can actually get the ball rolling on this concept. I know the area that is being discussed, but there really is no reason to head over there if you do not currently live there. This is good because it should make it easier to bank land, but its bad because we are going to have to get people to notice an isolated and kind of cut off section of the near north side of Indy. So much potnetial!

If you have driven through the martindale area, its nice to see what they have started.

EDIT:
Also of note, Cincinnati voted down "issue 9"
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20091103/NEWS0108/311030020/1055/news/Voters+reject+city+rail+amendment

Way to go!

EDIT 2:
Good donation of old citizens coke land
http://www.ibj.com/citizens-donates-land-to-baseball-notfor-profit/PARAMS/article/10946

Good donation of old citizens coke land
http://www.ibj.com/citizens-donates-land-to-baseball-notfor-profit/PARAMS/article/10946

Hmm.

Less than a mile from this site is Christian Park, which features numerous baseball and softball diamonds, basketball courts, tennis courts, indoor recreation facilities and an NFL-sponsored football field. Both a pee-wee football league and a baseball little league are active there. There are abundant athletic opportunities for all the kids in the neighborhood.

Is there really so much of a need to duplicate nearby existing taxpayer-funded facilities and services (on yet more not-for-profit tax-exempt land in Center Township)?

And if the stated goal of the not-for-profit organization is to get more African-Americans into baseball, wouldn't the purpose be better served at the virtually identical Sherman Drive-In site (near where 25th, Sherman, and Mass Ave. meet) in the overwhelmingly African-American Brightwood neighborhood?

Sometimes critical thinking leads to critical questioning.

My angle: Center Township needs jobs on old industrial sites, not more open space where there's already good parkland nearby.

Building parks in Indianapolis is a good thing. Having land donated for the park is also a good thing. Marrott Park, Broad Ripple Park and Holiday Park are all within about a mile of each other. Nobody complains about an "overabundance" of parks up in that area. The southeast side needs more green space. I hope this park can be built soon. There is a need for industrial development -- but this probably isn't the most likely place that would happen anyway. The site has been a detriment to the residential neighborhoods around it for decades. Finally there is something good that will be replacing it. Without a realistic plan for something better to go in at this site (unless you (Thundermutt) have a factory that is ready to build a new plant at this location within the next year) - we should be glad to see something good finally happening for this area of the city.

My angle: Center Township needs jobs on old industrial sites, not more open space where there's already good parkland nearby.

Agreed. People seem to see urban parkland as an absolute good, when it often permanently removes viable property from the tax rolls. Center Township is generally well represented with parks, to the point the almost everyone lives within walking distance of one.

Other parts of Indianapolis are solely lacking. Most southsiders go to Greenwood for public parks because they are so few and far between.

Far more thought should go into strategic location of parkland and weather the land would be better served for another use--not just building parks on a former brownfield simply because the public sector spent the money to clean it up.

The Shelton:

http://www.sheltoncondos.com/

They started refurb on that building a while back but it stalled. If I remember correctly, there's still a chute attached to the northside of the buiding that they were using during tear-out.

Great news that they're starting the project up again.

I talked to the developer of the Shelton a few weeks ago. It's a great little project--further proof that the untapped market in Indy is for the midpriced condos. Here he is, developing in the peak of a recession and he's already sold half the units on the Shelton (as of a few weeks ago--possibly more by now). He's convinced that his affordability is the one reason he's been able to proceed and secured his financing.

And cdcguy--

He also mentioned the eyesore you talked about on Penn, just east of the Landmark Center. He said he'd love to convert that to student apartments, but the city's archaic off-street parking requirements prohibit him from doing that. He said he'd have to show financial hardship in order to get a variance, and to do that he would have to buy the property first, then prove there was no adjacent property to develop as a garage or lot. Having researched this a bit (and called the city as well), I'm not entirely convinced. I'd love to know what all of you think about this.

And cdcguy--

He also mentioned the eyesore you talked about on Penn, just east of the Landmark Center. He said he'd love to convert that to student apartments, but the city's archaic off-street parking requirements prohibit him from doing that. He said he'd have to show financial hardship in order to get a variance, and to do that he would have to buy the property first, then prove there was no adjacent property to develop as a garage or lot. Having researched this a bit (and called the city as well), I'm not entirely convinced. I'd love to know what all of you think about this.

Depending on the price point for apartments and the projected market, I think one can make a case for one parking place (or fewer) for each apartment. Our residential parking standards in Indy are a lot closer to reality than our commercial ones.

The intriguing thing about the 10th & Penn property is that it has a fairly high "garden level" that might be partly convertible into under-building parking. (I've never been inside, nor have I seen drawings, so I'm just speculating.)

If that's possible, I think I'd push the other way, not "student apartments" but higher-end ones for young professionals with secured parking underneath. The building is clearly on the fringe of downtown, but when the real-estate economy turns, Buckingham will be dropping a pile of money into that neighborhood.

Agreed. People seem to see urban parkland as an absolute good, when it often permanently removes viable property from the tax rolls. Center Township is generally well represented with parks, to the point the almost everyone lives within walking distance of one.

Other parts of Indianapolis are solely lacking. Most southsiders go to Greenwood for public parks because they are so few and far between.

Far more thought should go into strategic location of parkland and weather the land would be better served for another use--not just building parks on a former brownfield simply because the public sector spent the money to clean it up.

Compromise is possible in that area. That's the "missing mile" of the Pleasant Run Trail (since Pleasant Run bisects the old Citizens Coke Plant). A greenbelt and high-quality trail segment from Prospect and Pleasant Run up to English would be a good thing, and it would make access to the neighborhood park at Clayton and Lasalle, Christian Park and Garfield Park very easy from the Twin Aire area. That's an easy sell.

Note that the houses in the area followed the railroad and industry, not the other way around. Look at an aerial of the area (for reasons other than identifying the abundance of nearby parkland): the Citizens Coke site has some of the best road and rail access in the city. The neighborhood has lost a considerable number of jobs over the past couple of years with the closing of Citizens Coke and the downsizing (and imminent closing) of International Truck & Engine.

Industrial, light industrial, research, and office use is the highest and best use of the old Citizens land. In conjunction with the unused half of the old Hawthorne rail yards (immediately east of the Citizens site), there is potential for transportation and logistics development in the area also.

I'd love to know what all of you think about this.

A developer and a non-profit proposed supportive housing at the Chadwick about a year ago. This proposal was squashed by the neighborhood. That site makes a lot of sense as supportive housing, though I understand the neighborhood's opposition given the number of such sites near by (HVAF, VOA, Burton, Blue Triangle).

Here's the Urban Times article about this project:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2804/4080590342_6077988057_b.jpg

Looking toward downtown from Park & Market.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2441/4080779964_708bc0ebcb_b.jpg

Cailes,

Thanks for the great pic of Market Street. Now let's get some infill development going.

I only spent about 10 minutes walking from around New Jersey down to College and back since I had to get to class, but the thing I noticed is that nearly every parcel of land has a huge FOR SALE sign on its lot right now.... so its available. haha

I only spent about 10 minutes walking from around New Jersey down to College and back since I had to get to class, but the thing I noticed is that nearly every parcel of land has a huge FOR SALE sign on its lot right now.... so its available. haha

Fortunately there are some smaller parcels, so everything doesn't have to wait for one mega-project (like the Ops Center or MSA site).

I've got to say, though, that I drove that route after dark earlier this week and it is pretty desolate east of College. Two blocks of jails and railroad and highway underpasses doesn't do much for me. They aren't as big a barrier as the ramp was, but the sheer mass of the jail buildings still makes it feel like the sort of closed-in place that's a crime scene in tv shows and movies.

A developer and a non-profit proposed supportive housing at the Chadwick about a year ago. This proposal was squashed by the neighborhood. That site makes a lot of sense as supportive housing, though I understand the neighborhood's opposition given the number of such sites near by (HVAF, VOA, Burton, Blue Triangle).

Here's the Urban Times article about this project:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2804/4080590342_6077988057_b.jpg

I agree with the end statement, there is a HUGE demand for affordable housing for university students. I attend IUPUI and most of the students commute from the suburbs and hate it. It's the fact that the students want to be downtown but not pay the outrageous prices for a decent place. I understand shelters need to exist but we have plenty around that area, lets put some focus on things that are truly in demand. :ohno:

^^ Exactly. If the city wants downtown to be viable in the long run, i don't understand why throwing ten to fifteen thousand some students into the mix hasn't been done yet. If i could afford downtown, I'd be there in a heartbeat, and so would at least 40 other people i could list off the top of my head.

Graffiti in Downtown Indianapolis leads police to arrest 'Choke'
(from Indystar.com)

Police have arrested a graffiti vandal who they say has wreaked $100,000 in damage on businesses and other property across the city.

Miguel Villanueva, 23, Richmond, Ind., was prelimiinarily charged Thursday with three counts of misdemeanor criminal mischief for spray painting, or "tagging," three buildings near Downtown Indianapolis.

Prosecutors were granted a 72-hour continuance this morning in a Marion County court, so formal charges could come during a Tuesday morning court hearing.

Villanueva leaves the name "Choke" on the walls he paints, said Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department Detective Frank Miller.

Villanueva's mother, Valerie Henderson, said by phone from her Richmond home she was upset by the arrest.

[wait for it....]

[wait for it....]

[and Mom says...]

"He's a good boy, for a high school dropout," she said.

...lets put some focus on things that are truly in demand. :ohno:

Supportive housing is in very high demand. Studies show a need for 1500-2000 additional units for special needs populations. I think we agree in principal, but there is still great demand for this type of housing.

Supportive housing is in very high demand. Studies show a need for 1500-2000 additional units for special needs populations. I think we agree in principal, but there is still great demand for this type of housing.


Why at 10th and Penn? Why not at 10th and Emerson? (anywhere but central downtown) Why put something like this in such a high traffic and high potential neighborhood? I think that when you are trying to revitalize a neighborhood it is really hard to find people willing to invest and live in neighborhoods with high "specail needs" populations. Addiction and mental illness go hand in hand with homelessness. I understand that there is a problem that needs to be addressed here, but I think that development of strong neighborhoods as close to the center of downtown has many benefits and shouldn't be jeopardized. People move out to the burbs for safety, we need to make downtown just as safe (or have the same illusion of safety) in order to create a dense population that will keep downtown growing, instead of the burbs. Why don't we build more "special needs" housing in Carmel?

I might sound cold, but I kind of feel like saying "not in my backyard" (as many would say if this were proposed in their neighborhood)

Supportive housing is in very high demand. Studies show a need for 1500-2000 additional units for special needs populations. I think we agree in principal, but there is still great demand for this type of housing.

But like other housing services for people in need, all those units should not be densely packed in one part of town. The St. Joe neighbors are right...their neighborhood might be at the saturation point.

For instance, East Washington (east of I-65) has a mix of market-rate, subsidized, and supportive options...including one near the neighborhood where I live that is by all appearances a good neighbor. One or two more like it would probably be appropriate there....which is to say, "put it in MY backyard".

But like other housing services for people in need, all those units should not be densely packed in one part of town. The St. Joe neighbors are right...their neighborhood might be at the saturation point.

For instance, East Washington (east of I-65) has a mix of market-rate, subsidized, and supportive options...including one near the neighborhood where I live that is by all appearances a good neighbor. One or two more like it would probably be appropriate there....which is to say, "put it in MY backyard".

Nice! I hope that you understand my concern though. Many people who are more intimidated by urban settings, who are the potential buyers and the people who would revitalize a neighborhood might be more weary.

Why at 10th and Penn? Why not at 10th and Emerson? (anywhere but central downtown) Why put something like this in such a high traffic and high potential neighborhood? I think that when you are trying to revitalize a neighborhood it is really hard to find people willing to invest and live in neighborhoods with high "specail needs" populations. Addiction and mental illness go hand in hand with homelessness. I understand that there is a problem that needs to be addressed here, but I think that development of strong neighborhoods as close to the center of downtown has many benefits and shouldn't be jeopardized. People move out to the burbs for safety, we need to make downtown just as safe (or have the same illusion of safety) in order to create a dense population that will keep downtown growing, instead of the burbs. Why don't we build more "special needs" housing in Carmel?

I might sound cold, but I kind of feel like saying "not in my backyard" (as many would say if this were proposed in their neighborhood)

10th and Penn because it is right next to Wishard, Roudebush, Midtown and near Horizon House. It is 1 mile from the central bus transfer station. It has stood vacant for 10 years, and that building needs $125-150K/unit in rehab. Hard to make that amount of rehab 'affordable' without heavy subsidy, and federal grants are limited for student housing. Chadwick will not work as high-end condos or rental because of the lack of parking--a sad but true reality of our market. Demo is not possible because the building is listed in the Historic Apartments of Indianapolis district.

Most folks don't even know a supportive projects from any other apartment community. Several supportive housing projects existed in St Joe neighborhood before its current revitalization. Blue Triangle (Penn and St Clair) was vacant for 20 years before being developed as supportive housing in 1995, and this project has not had a detrimental impact on the development of the neighborhood.

But like other housing services for people in need, all those units should not be densely packed in one part of town. The St. Joe neighbors are right...their neighborhood might be at the saturation point.

For instance, East Washington (east of I-65) has a mix of market-rate, subsidized, and supportive options...including one near the neighborhood where I live that is by all appearances a good neighbor. One or two more like it would probably be appropriate there....which is to say, "put it in MY backyard".

I agree that there may be saturation in this neighborhood, but [I]every[I] neighborhood believes they have done enough of this type of housing, yet the demand remains. My point is that Chadwick is a very tough building to make financially feasible, and supportive housing is one of the few options that actually could work for this building.

Am I the only one that is seriously upset with the placement of IUPUI's new garage? According to this (https://www.parking.iupui.edu/downloads/CaliforniaStParkingGarage.pdf) the garage is going to sit smack dab middle of a parking lot and cut off North Street. I was optimistic after seeing IUPUI's master plan that the block system might slowly be reintroduced to campus but now all hopes are lost.

Anyone think it might be possibly that the pdf is mistaking? I hope so... :bash:

The plan is for all of the areas around the parking garage to be filled in with new mixed use development. Commercial, residential - some office, etc. That corner of the cmapus is supposed to be one of the key places where there will be lots of interaction between the general population and the university folks. Once the various buildings are built around the parking garage, you won't be able to see the garage.

I agree that mega blocks are not good. Hopefully there will be ways to walk and bike (and drive?) through the area as well. Ideally, people won't need to drive much though. Some people will park their cars in the garage - but hopefully there will be a lot more residential nearby - and people will walk throughout this area. Improved transit will help bring people to the area -- and the cultural trail will be very close. There should be restaurants, bars, stores, and many apartments. I do agree with your concern though. The way the new developments are built - around the parking garage - will be very important to the future success of the area.

On its face, that garage position seems completely illogical. Ideally, IUPUI should not only be respecting the existing street grid in that area, but they should be extending North St. back to West St. and/or providing an extension of California St. to Indiana Ave.

However, if you accept that traffic flow considerations at the Indiana/West intersection likely precluded North St. ever being extended back to West St., maybe this isn't COMPLETELY illogical. The odd position seems to indicate that IUPUI has very specific ideas about the footprint for future buildings they will to build around that garage. If not, it's a little hard to understand why they're siting the garage such that they have to vacate North St.

It's likely that ingress/egress will be aligned with North St., perhaps on both sides. And it does respect California St., so maybe they're still considering an extension to Indiana.

Also, FYI, INDOT let the first phase of I-65 widening in Boone County, from I-865 to CR 100E in Lebanon. That should get underway in the spring I'm guessing. They are widening to six lanes from the spur to US 52 north of Lebanon.

That is great news. Keep us posted about infrastructure developments.:)

On its face, that garage position seems completely illogical. Ideally, IUPUI should not only be respecting the existing street grid in that area, but they should be extending North St. back to West St. and/or providing an extension of California St. to Indiana Ave.

However, if you accept that traffic flow considerations at the Indiana/West intersection likely precluded North St. ever being extended back to West St., maybe this isn't COMPLETELY illogical. The odd position seems to indicate that IUPUI has very specific ideas about the footprint for future buildings they will to build around that garage. If not, it's a little hard to understand why they're siting the garage such that they have to vacate North St.

It's likely that ingress/egress will be aligned with North St., perhaps on both sides. And it does respect California St., so maybe they're still considering an extension to Indiana.

Doesn't the Sigma Theta Tau building sit on top of the former North St. ROW?

Doesn't the Sigma Theta Tau building sit on top of the former North St. ROW?
Yes. But what I always figured is that, if IUPUI wanted to, a new road could have been routed beside Sigma Theta Tau to meet Indiana/West not very far off where it originally would have. Even that's very unrealistic, but it would have provided an additional way into and out of campus.

http://www.ibj.com/allen-plaza-developer-bullish-on-downtown-eager-for-next-project/PARAMS/article/10995

Allen Plaza developer bullish on downtown, eager for next project
Cory Schouten
November 7, 2009

Naming his first downtown project Allen Plaza wasn’t just about pride for builder and developer J. Greg Allen.

He sees the $14 million renovation as a message to city leaders that he intends to build well and leave a lasting mark on downtown. Leaders already know as much on the south side, where Allen has been building some combination of homes, offices and retail centers for 30 years.

In a rare interview, Allen talked with IBJ about how he has managed to keep Allen Plaza on track during a nasty market for real estate development—a time when similar projects like 707 E. North St. are either in foreclosure or on ice. Most of Allen Plaza’s retail and office space is spoken for, and the first seven condos of a planned 31 will hit the market this month.

And Allen isn’t giving up on Penn Centre, a $135 million mix of hotels, condos and restaurants he proposed in 2007 for a stretch of surface parking lots along Pennsylvania Street across from Conseco Fieldhouse. He still owns the land and is working on a phasing plan that would have about half the development done in time for the Super Bowl in 2012.

“We’re disappointed the capital markets tanked on us and the project isn’t 70-percent complete already,” he said of Penn Centre. “We had 12 firms looking at a financing package in November 2007, and three months later no one would touch it.”

If Allen, 54, has proven anything with his namesake mixed-use building at 1 Virginia Ave., it’s that he may take a few years, but he can deliver.

Allen bought the sleepy Jefferson Plaza office building out of foreclosure in February 2005. Two years later, his team began gutting the outdated nine-story building and installing a modern glass façade. Local staple Scotty’s Brewhouse signed on to take the entire 12,000-square-foot first-floor space, giving the project an early boost.

“It’s one of those properties—if you’re a visitor, it’s a memory point,” Allen said. “That’s what we tried to do—building something we could be proud of.”

The three floors of office space already are about 70-percent leased. One of Allen’s companies, Allen Commercial Group, has moved its headquarters from Greenwood to about 8,000 square feet on the second floor. And Noble Roman’s Inc., the only tenant to stick around during the remodel, occupies another 8,000 square feet.

The project includes five floors of condos, including three ninth-floor penthouses. The first floor of condos is just about move-in ready. When Allen is ready to build out the penthouses, he’ll also add a planned “tower feature” atop the building’s northwest corner.

The residential entrance lobby features refinished African walnut from the former seventh-floor offices of Jefferson Life Insurance Co., along with a facial-recognition security system and a touch-screen building directory. The condos have a variety of high-end flourishes including California sliding doors, recessed lighting, custom cabinets and stainless-steel tile backsplashes.

Two units already are spoken for: Allen is taking one with an impressive corner view of Pennsylvania Street, and leasing director John Cunningham is taking another.

Prices range from $219,000 up to $489,000. An open house is tentatively scheduled for Nov. 19.

Allen is building out only one floor of condos at a time—a luxury he enjoys in part because he worked out a loan with no presale requirement with Columbus, Ohio-based Huntington Bank. He didn’t want to face the same fate as a failed condo development on the former home of Market Square Arena.

Revenue coming in from the building’s office and restaurant components also gives the company time to let the market absorb the condos.

“It’s a lot easier to sit on a building with income coming in,” said Cunningham, one of two leasing directors, along with Allen’s son, Greg W. Allen.

Completing the project in such a rough real estate market is a success story for both Allen and the neighborhood, said Ersal Ozdemir, CEO of locally based Keystone Construction, which owns the Majestic Building next door and is finishing up work on the 3Mass condo project with Halakar Real Estate.

Allen chooses projects carefully, is well-diversified and works hard, Ozdemir said.

“He’s done it all, and he understands the business well,” he said.

Timing also was a factor in the success of both Allen Plaza and 3Mass: The respective developers closed financing deals just before credit markets froze early last year. About 60 percent of 44 units in 3Mass have sold.

As for Penn Centre, Ozdemir won’t be betting against Allen.

“I wouldn’t mind looking at a nice building from my office instead of a parking lot,” he said. “I’m a believer if you have a lot of parking lots in a downtown, that can’t be a great sign.”

The Penn Centre plan still calls for two new high-rises with a 150-room Aloft hotel, a 240-room Le Meridien hotel, a 550-space parking garage, 60 condos, and up to six restaurants.

But Allen now is looking at building the project in phases, starting with the affordably hip Aloft hotel, which he said would be a hit with attendees of the FFA convention. The swankier Le Meridien brand would have to compete in a more crowded high-end category with the arrival of the new JW Marriott.

The area around Allen Plaza has been a hotbed of activity the last few years. The former Junior Achievement building at 21 Virginia Ave. got a major revamp and a new anchor tenant, the 500 Festival. Adobo Grill, Dunkin Donuts and Pita Pit took over vacant spaces. And locally based The Broadbent Co. revitalized the old Zipper Building and landed first-floor anchor Fogo de Chao.

In times like these, small and lean developers such as Allen and Broadbent can be more nimble with decisions, said Jeff Roberts, a Broadbent senior leasing representative.

Of course, the climate isn’t easy for anyone.

“There’s no easy way to deal with this economy, whether you’re Simon or Broadbent or Greg Allen,” Roberts said.

Yes. But what I always figured is that, if IUPUI wanted to, a new road could have been routed beside Sigma Theta Tau to meet Indiana/West not very far off where it originally would have. Even that's very unrealistic, but it would have provided an additional way into and out of campus.

Note the red lines on that block.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3492/4074683887_2145501876_o.png

http://www.gousabid.com/city/local/INDIANAPOLIS-IN (http://www.gousabid.com/city/local/INDIANAPOLIS-IN)

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Soccer in Indianapolis

Hoosiers have a history of soccer dominance. The Indiana University men's soccer team is one of the most successful in NCAA history, having won six NCAA National Championships - including three back-to-back wins.
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Indiana Youth Soccer proudly calls 60,000 young players its own - with 8,000 coaches, 3,800 referees and thousands of volunteers.
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http://www.ibj.com/allen-plaza-developer-bullish-on-downtown-eager-for-next-project/PARAMS/article/10995

Allen Plaza developer bullish on downtown, eager for next project


I love this guy!

I agree that there may be saturation in this neighborhood, but [I]every[I] neighborhood believes they have done enough of this type of housing, yet the demand remains. My point is that Chadwick is a very tough building to make financially feasible, and supportive housing is one of the few options that actually could work for this building.

You've responded thoughtfully to equally reasonable concerns here. I have no doubt there is high demand for supportive housing--obviously such a demand is never going to go away, but that doesn't undercut the importance of chipping away at that demand incrementally. It will be a hard project to reuse adaptively, but I'm not convinced it lacks market-rate viability. High-end condos is unlikely, but I think it could easily find tenants as student apartments who are perfectly comfortable with parking along the street. I know another developer who agrees. (In fact, the old subsidized apartments just north of Cosmopolitan on Senate Avenue are now getting re-used as student housing, and at least some of the units will lack off-street space.)

If you agree that the neighborhood is likely saturated, but it remains an strong location because of its proximity to public services, where do the concerns of the neighbors fit in? Surely the fact that there is plenty other supportive housing is at least one factor that disfavors this site in St. Joseph. I have no doubt of the struggles nonprofits encounter with NIMBYism whenever they make a proposal, because supportive housing for homeless is always perceived as a noxious use. The best way may be to reframe it the particular NIMBY demographic in your area. For example, a goal of reusing a blighted old police station in Irish, working class South Boston was likely to meet huge resistance until the CDC proposed that it would cater to formerly homeless Veterans. The conservative neighborhood had a strong veteran population and supported them greatly, effectively muting much of the resistance the proposal would otherwise have elicited.

Could such a demographic be targeted for a similar proposal in St. Joseph, which is largely upper-income urban professionals? It may seem callous to match your population served (veterans, political refugees, battered women, disabled persons, seniors) according to the sort of people the existing neighbors find most desirable, but it is the best way to achieve expedient approval. And you can often find various foundations with grants available to the supportive housing project, if it targets a particular population aligned with that foundation's mission.

On its face, that garage position seems completely illogical. Ideally, IUPUI should not only be respecting the existing street grid in that area, but they should be extending North St. back to West St. and/or providing an extension of California St. to Indiana Ave.

However, if you accept that traffic flow considerations at the Indiana/West intersection likely precluded North St. ever being extended back to West St., maybe this isn't COMPLETELY illogical. The odd position seems to indicate that IUPUI has very specific ideas about the footprint for future buildings they will to build around that garage. If not, it's a little hard to understand why they're siting the garage such that they have to vacate North St.

It's likely that ingress/egress will be aligned with North St., perhaps on both sides. And it does respect California St., so maybe they're still considering an extension to Indiana.

I agree that the garage location is illogical, and yes, it pretty well precludes any reconnection of North Street to West Street or Indiana Avenue. Even if all the proposed mixed-use development around the garage occurs, it still creates or further isolates a "mega-block" that will inhibit pedestrian activity.

So, what did it take, about 6 months for IUPUI to cast aside the visionary plan they commissioned?

Daniels' proposal for a limited access "outer loop" may have been nixed, but now it's happening organically--sort of:

http://www.ibj.com/suburban-counties-slowly-building-outer-loop-roads-to-avoid-indianapolis/PARAMS/article/10940


Suburban counties building outer loop to avoid Indianapolis
by Chris O'Malley

Houston has them, and so does Memphis—outer loops of highways leading from suburb to suburb and bypassing central cities.

Other than Interstate 465 serving mostly Marion County, the Indianapolis area has no such thing—yet.

A 100-mile loop taking shape in piecemeal fashion eventually will make it easier for drivers to circumvent Marion County.

At first glance, the pieces don’t seem to fit. But connect the dots of partially completed or planned highway projects and what emerges is the potential for a sort of low-budget ring beyond I-465.

No self-respecting civil engineer would call the project a loop. For various reasons, including the presence of stoplights, none of it will be built to interstate standards. It’s also so incoherent that it probably will never be given a formal name.
IBJ.COM EXTRA
Click here to see a map of the loop.

Yet, it will allow drivers to zip from Carmel to Plainfield, or from Greenwood to Geist—all without having to roll a tire into Indianapolis.

“What you see each county doing is for its needs,” said John Ottesmann, director of urban policy and planning at the IUPUI Center for Urban Policy and the Environment. “As you have a more-developed [county] economy, there’s more and more demand for travel back and forth … from suburb to suburb, not suburb to central city.”

Want to see what Ottesmann is talking about? Fill that 20-ounce coffee mug and climb aboard for a long and sometimes-maddening drive—starting northwest, in the hinterlands of Boone County.

Into the ‘Boone-ies’

We’ll get off I-65 north at the State Road 267 interchange (if you can call it that), hit the brakes hard, and hang a right onto narrow County Road 400S. Just a few hundred feet ahead, in the middle of nowhere, is the connection with a veritable autobahn leading to the All Points at Anson commercial park.

That’s the one with a new, Delaware-size Amazon.com warehouse and Medco automated pharmacy/warehouse complex.

At quitting time, long lines of vehicles back up inside Anson as workers try to spill onto the county road. Building a proper intersection to serve an anticipated 20,000 workers is the top highway priority for the county, said Dax Norton, executive director of the Boone County Economic Development Corp.

With such a massive work force needed in a county of only 55,000 residents, county leaders are also keen to lure labor from surrounding counties.

The leaders plan to pipe them through the planned extension of the Ronald Reagan Parkway in Hendricks County north to I-65 near Anson.

To tap highly educated workers to the east in Hamilton County, Boone leaders are angling for an engineering study to improve County Road East 300S, which becomes 146th Street in Hamilton County.

Today, 300S splits cornfields and dips into rolling areas alternately dotted with shacks and mansions. The mansion owners appear to anticipate the growth, because they built fenced entrances to their estates far back from the road.

The route through Whitestown is claustrophobic—it threads a gauntlet of houses and mature trees. So, a bypass must be built.

Hamilton County ahead

Heading east into Hamilton County on 146th Street, four-way stops and subdivisions proliferate. So do black-as-despair German cars piloted by motorists wearing white tennis caps. Behold the local version of a John Deere hat.

As we approach Springmill Road, 146th Street fans into four lanes all the way to Interstate 69. The county is designing the final four-lane stretch from Boone County to Springmill Road.

Early estimates peg the project at around $25 million, and work could be under way in 2012, said Brad Davis, Hamilton County highway engineer.

“With that I-65 and I-69 connection, you’ll actually have that interstate-to-interstate connection that has regional value, as well,” Davis said.

Farther east, 146th Street ducks southeast near Hamilton Town Center, Noblesville’s upscale shopping Nirvana, and the street sign suddenly changes to Campus Parkway.

Campus Parkway proceeds over the interstate and onto what is now State Road 238. Veering south, we’re now on Olio Road. Olio continues south in four-lane glory to 113th Street, where it narrows to two lanes as it crosses Geist Reservoir.

Hancock’s ambitions

As Olio continues south into Hancock County, it becomes Mount Comfort Road. Hancock officials want to turn Mount Comfort Road into a virtual freeway all the way down to Interstate 70.

As it is, the two-lane road has plenty of shoulder room to grow into.

It’s appealing in other ways. A study of the Indianapolis area’s highway system four years ago concluded that a new corridor would be a better way to link some of the traffic on interstates 69 and 70 than I-465; Mount Comfort Road wasn’t identified in that study, but it would be a logical place to build that shortcut.

Indeed, a new north-south corridor through Hancock County was a key piece of Gov. Mitch Daniels’ proposed Indiana Commerce Connector.

Initially proposed as a toll road to help pay for the I-69 extension between Indianapolis and Evansville, the connector would have run from I-69 south through Hancock County, then curve west in Shelby County before curling into Johnson County to link with the future I-69 route to Evansville.

Daniels pulled the idea following opposition to cost and from landowners who potentially were in the way of the mostly new-terrain commerce connector route.

Though Daniels’ idea is history, Hancock officials see a less-expensive, less-intrusive version in turning Mount Comfort Road into a five-lane limited-access highway.

The only real physical barrier in Hancock County is the narrow confines of McCordsville; an eastern bypass around the fast-growing town would be necessary.

The county is looking to sell bonds to begin engineering. For construction, “We’re hoping maybe we can get some federal dollars,” said county engineer Joe Copeland.

Optimistically, the work could be well under way by 2015, although Copeland said it depends on getting the funds: “I’d rather plan aggressively.”

Copeland noted the Indiana Department of Transportation is building a partial cloverleaf interchange at Mount Comfort Road and I-70 that could support heavier traffic flow of a widened Mount Comfort Road.

Up for consideration later is improving and extending Mount Comfort Road south of I-70 into Shelby County all the way to Interstate 74.

Johnson County menagerie

Driving on requires, as real estate agents like to say, a little imagination.

OK, maybe a lot of imagination. Where Mount Comfort Road peters out in Hancock County we magically fly south, over cornfields, and land at the Fairland interchange on I-74. You can’t miss it: It’s dwarfed by the Indiana Live casino.

Driving west on Fairland Road (County Road 400N) puts us on the eastern-most end of a proposed corridor stretching west nearly 30 miles and ending at State Road 37 near Mooresville in Morgan County.

With the exception of the tiny town of Fairland, there’s not much out here. Cornfield after cornfield begets patches of rolling wooded areas. The maddening patchwork of doglegged county roads almost seems purposely aligned to frustrate traffic, such that a GPS device is a must for outsiders.

We eventually wind onto Worthsville Road and cross Interstate 65. Here, Greenwood officials are pressing INDOT to build an interchange as a key component of the city’s east-west corridor.

They’d also like to improve Worthsville, which in places is narrow, with uneven pavement and a cathedral of utility poles—perfect for doing damage to anyone who loses focus while talking on a cell phone.

But any expectations that this western, suburbanized end of the Johnson County corridor will straighten out are soon dashed. One can’t help but wonder if the corridor consultants were Cheech & Chong.

The proposed corridor makes a Crazy Ivan south onto County Road 125W, then veers right onto Stone’s Crossing Road, then back south on State Road 135, then west on Whiteland Road, and northwest on State Road 144 all the way to State Road 37.

Rather than the “corridor” described in local newspaper reports, Johnson County highway engineer Gary Vandegriff speaks in terms of “east-west transportation enhancements.”

Vandegriff has held his position only three years—a narrow span compared with the eons over which an east-west route has been discussed here. But he’s heard stories of why the current, darting route was chosen—stories ranging from opposition from schools to worries over wiping out Whiteland: “It was hard to pick a route straight across the county.”

Greenwood officials have proposed smoothing out corners, such as where Worthsville hits County Road 125W. However, funding for the broader improvements for the long route has yet to be secured.

“We’re nowhere near having a construction plan ready to go,” Vandegriff added.

Let’s get out of here.

Hendricks progress

There’s not much to speak of for completing the southern corridor west toward Mooresville and north to I-70.

We could take State Road 144 to Mooresville, pick up the four-lane State Road 67, then head north and jump onto the four-lane AmeriPlex Parkway in Hendricks County. AmeriPlex Parkway takes us north and crosses I-70 courtesy of an interchange INDOT built for the midfield terminal at Indianapolis International Airport.

Leaving I-70 behind, we’re still on a four-lane—now called Ronald Reagan Parkway—that leads us to U.S. 40, where we come to barricades.

The county has money for design work on the missing link between U.S. 40 and U.S. 36, or Rockville Road.

At Rockville, the Reagan picks up again, running north to County Road 300N. It’s just two lanes, but the county has graded a parallel right-of-way to allow for two additional lanes when the money arrives.

There are more fields between 300N and U.S. 136. Design is completed for this stretch but there’s no money to build it.

North of U.S. 136, there’s another completed, four-lane stretch of the Reagan. It crosses I-74 and ends at 56th Street.

Extending the Reagan another seven or eight miles to I-65 in Boone County is a ways off. The county is wrapping up environmental studies and is nailing down an exact route. The area is sparsely populated, so the road might initially be constructed as a two-lane highway, Ayres said.

Maybe so, but even that would beat the maze of narrow, doglegged county roads that now lengthen commutes and in some cases even discourage mobility altogether within and between adjacent counties.

Wrapping up our long, circular drive, it’s apparent that even when these new legs are built or existing ones improved, there’s not enough coffee or patience to consider the collective ribbon of pavement to be a loop worth navigating in its entirety.

“I don’t know [that] it was ever intended to be an outer loop, per se,” said Davis, the Hamilton County engineer. But, “intuitively, people looked at the area and could see the need of good north-south, east-west highways outside of I-465.”•

Looks like 707 North is back in business now.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091109/BUSINESS/911090304/New+owner+for+condo+tower

Looks like 707 North is back in business now.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091109/BUSINESS/911090304/New+owner+for+condo+tower

This is great news. I read the article this morning and was very pleased to hear that it is being switched to affordable rental units rather than $3 million condos. I think this project will fill up quickly when complete. This is exactly what downtown Indy needs.

http://weblive.ibj.com/ibj/website/popup/Outer-Loop/images/Focus_loop_map.gif

Is there a plan out there for the California St garage @ IUPUI? I only ask because I got an email on my IUPUI emali this weekend about parking changes coming because of the construction, but have been unable to find anything about actual start dates. Looks like they are still in the planning stages for now as all the fine details arent worked out. At least thats what I can make out based upon the reading I see.

Is there a plan out there for the California St garage @ IUPUI? I only ask because I got an email on my IUPUI emali this weekend about parking changes coming because of the construction, but have been unable to find anything about actual start dates. Looks like they are still in the planning stages for now as all the fine details arent worked out. At least thats what I can make out based upon the reading I see.
This is the most definitive thing I've seen (from Chancellor Bantz in the most recent Med School newsletter on 11/6):

We have recognized the need for more parking for a while now. I’m pleased to say that construction for a new 1,300 space garage on the northeast corner of Michigan and Blackford will begin in mid-November with plans for it to be completed before school begins next fall. Unfortunately, this long- term increase in parking spots will start with the loss of 550 as soon as construction begins.

The email was much less formal sounding but gave the same impression. I park in the same lot and walk about 5 minutes to classes. hehe It directed people to the same pdf that was posted here last week. So, nothing more detailed than what has been posted thus far.

Looks like I will be parking at the Indiana ave lot soon

From indystar.com:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091109/BUSINESS/91109020/-1/frontpagecities/City+updates+signs+to+aid+Super+Bowl+traffic

Visitors to Indianapolis to get better signs for Super Bowl
By Tom Spalding
Posted: November 9, 2009


One of the more confusing exits leading to Downtown Indianapolis is getting a makeover starting tonight, and you can thank 2012 Super Bowl for helping straighten things out.

Weather permitting, the Indiana Department of Transportation and Indianapolis Department of Public Works crews will begin installing new signs along Interstate 70 so that Exit 79B points towards Meridian Street, instead of McCarty Street.

McCarty is an east-west street, while Meridian runs north-south and would take visitors to nightclubs, places to eat and, of course, Lucas Oil Stadium and related attractions.

Locals may have grown accustomed to bunched-up cluster of ramps and spin-off roads, but for an outsider, it can be maddening.

More coverage: Click here for a roundup of Indianapolis-area business news and state updates.

"The road names (in that section) are not continuous," said INDOT spokesman Will Wingfield, whose agency is replacing eight signs altogether that involve McCarty. "It's to reduce confusion and put the best face on Indianapolis as possible for people visiting out city."

Access to the roads won't change -- just the directional signs.

“These new interstate signs will make traveling to Downtown easier,” added Tamara Zahn, Indianapolis Downtown Inc. president. “Drivers exiting onto Meridian Street will have convenient access to Downtown's businesses and attractions.”

From our archives: It's ours! Indianapolis scores 2012 Super Bowl

Officials planning for the 2012 Super Bowl identified the Meridian Street thoroughfare -- the city's north-south street that is lined with shops, restaurants and hotels -- as the preferred gateway to downtown Indianapolis.

In the future, additional signage is planned along I-65, I-70 and I-465 to help direct motorists to Indianapolis International Airport.

“With INDOT review and planning for the Super Bowl in 2012, signage became a concern as we will have a larger number of out-of-town visitors,” said INDOT Chief of Staff Robert L. Zier in a statement today. “Although we hope that the Colts are in the game that day, we anticipate travelers coming to Indianapolis who may not be familiar with the city and its layout.”

Nearby businesses are asked to join this effort by updating directions that may be included on their Web sites or printed materials. The sign changes have also been reported to global positioning systems and Web-mapping providers NAVTEQ, TeleAtlas and Google Maps.

http://weblive.ibj.com/ibj/website/popup/Outer-Loop/images/Focus_loop_map.gif

I saw this and automatically shut my laptop. To think with all the need for public transportation infrastructure improvements that all we can propose is another I-465. Where is the progression? This is exhausting! :ohno:

I don't normally post crime stories, but since this Gabe worked at Goose the Market and many of us have likely met him, it is making the rounds. This is sure not going to do the East Side any favors.

Let's be sure Gabe is in our thoughts and prayers.

cdc, this is your neighborhood. Any insights?

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/21565012/detail.html

INDIANAPOLIS -- The family of a man critically injured in a robbery on Indianapolis' east side late Sunday is asking for any witnesses to come forward.

Gabriel Jordan, 33, told Indianapolis police that he was walking his dog in the 5000 block of English Avenue at about 11:30 p.m. when two men robbed him, shooting him in the back as he tried to get away.

"A couple of guys jumped him and robbed him. He struggled a bit," Mike Jordan, the man's father, told 6News' Jennifer Carmack.

Police said the family's dog apparently went back home after the shooting, prompting his wife to go looking for him. She found officers at the crime scene.

"To have this happen is tragic and a senseless, cowardly act by two individuals" said Lt. Jeff Duhamell.

Jordan was taken to Wishard Memorial Hospital in critical condition, and doctors said he will likely be paralyzed from the waist down, family members told Carmack.

Mike Jordan said his son's life was thriving, with a 7-month-old son, a job as a wine steward at the Fall Creek Place shop Goose the Market and plans to open a restaurant near Broad Ripple.

"For those responsible, how could you?" he said. "What we need is people to just step up. If anybody knows anything about these guys, step up."

Police don't have a detailed description of the assailants, but said they got away with about $20. Police asked anyone with information to call Crime Stoppers at 317-262-TIPS.

Oh man... That is tragic. I live 8 blocks north of Goose, which I shop at weekly, and have built relationships with Chris and most of the staff. I can't believe this could happen to some one like Gabe. So sad.

From indystar.com:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091109/BUSINESS/91109020/-1/frontpagecities/City+updates+signs+to+aid+Super+Bowl+traffic

Weather permitting, the Indiana Department of Transportation and Indianapolis Department of Public Works crews will begin installing new signs along Interstate 70 so that Exit 79B points towards Meridian Street, instead of McCarty Street.


About dang time! I wonder if the City will get in on the act by clearing up the confusion for anyone attempting to go from downtown to the southside via Madison Avenue, by not calling the street that connects Meridian & South to the Interstate by the name of Madison Avenue, while providing no indication that Pennsylvania Street will transition into Madison Avenue?

<iframe width="425" height="350" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" marginheight="0" marginwidth="0" src="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=s_q&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;q=600+madison+ave&amp;sll=39.758639,-86.15721&amp;sspn=0.008677,0.01929&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;hq=&amp;hnear=600+Madison+Ave,+Indianapolis,+Marion,+Indiana+46225&amp;ll=39.768502,-86.152983&amp;spn=0.008611,0.01929&amp;z=14&amp;output=embed"></iframe><br /><small><a href="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&amp;source=embed&amp;hl=en&amp;geocode=&amp;q=600+madison+ave&amp;sll=39.758639,-86.15721&amp;sspn=0.008677,0.01929&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;hq=&amp;hnear=600+Madison+Ave,+Indianapolis,+Marion,+Indiana+46225&amp;ll=39.768502,-86.152983&amp;spn=0.008611,0.01929&amp;z=14" style="color:#0000FF;text-align:left">View Larger Map</a></small>

I saw this .... and almost started to pack my bags and leave town!!!! (... I'm in shock..... clearly!) This is what we should never even consider doing, yet here it is, for every suburbanite to drool over. Who even proposed this ???? Why should we do what every other city does. Wheres the individualism? Wouldn't it be great to tackle a transit fiasco without building more roads, and instead building upon what we have. This is straight up criminal. IMI or someone has to be slipping money under the table to get something like this on the drawing boards. I hope its this preposterous to everyone else on this board !!! we might as well just loop anderson into this while were at it. ... Nothing but quality B.S. Why are we widening 465 if this is attempting to divert traffic off 465.... ? The ignorance present in this proposal is overwhelming. Lets hope it never happens.

I don't normally post crime stories, but since this Gabe worked at Goose the Market and many of us have likely met him, it is making the rounds. This is sure not going to do the East Side any favors.

Let's be sure Gabe is in our thoughts and prayers.

cdc, this is your neighborhood. Any insights?

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/21565012/detail.html

INDIANAPOLIS -- The family of a man critically injured in a robbery on Indianapolis' east side late Sunday is asking for any witnesses to come forward.

Gabriel Jordan, 33, told Indianapolis police that he was walking his dog in the 5000 block of English Avenue at about 11:30 p.m. when two men robbed him, shooting him in the back as he tried to get away.

"A couple of guys jumped him and robbed him. He struggled a bit," Mike Jordan, the man's father, told 6News' Jennifer Carmack.

Police said the family's dog apparently went back home after the shooting, prompting his wife to go looking for him. She found officers at the crime scene.

"To have this happen is tragic and a senseless, cowardly act by two individuals" said Lt. Jeff Duhamell.

Jordan was taken to Wishard Memorial Hospital in critical condition, and doctors said he will likely be paralyzed from the waist down, family members told Carmack.

Mike Jordan said his son's life was thriving, with a 7-month-old son, a job as a wine steward at the Fall Creek Place shop Goose the Market and plans to open a restaurant near Broad Ripple.

"For those responsible, how could you?" he said. "What we need is people to just step up. If anybody knows anything about these guys, step up."

Police don't have a detailed description of the assailants, but said they got away with about $20. Police asked anyone with information to call Crime Stoppers at 317-262-TIPS.


Thanks for posting this Aaron. My wife and I are just devastated by this tragedy. We've known Gabe since his days at Bistro 936. He's one of the nicest and most thoughtful people we've ever had the pleasure of knowing. Please keep him, his wife and their 7 month old in your thoughts and prayers.

I don't normally post crime stories, but since this Gabe worked at Goose the Market and many of us have likely met him, it is making the rounds. This is sure not going to do the East Side any favors.

Let's be sure Gabe is in our thoughts and prayers.

cdc, this is your neighborhood. Any insights?


It's senseless and shocking and close to home. (Something woke me Sunday evening; it was probably police and ambulance sirens.) I don't know Gabe. He has my best wishes for a speedy recovery.

Beyond that:

1. English Avenue is lit up like a runway at night, and it is a relatively busy street. Nearby neighbors have additional outdoor lighting. A block east is the busy intersection of Emerson & English, where there is a 24-hour gas station/c-store, a liquor store, a laundromat, and a couple of auto service places.

2. I have never felt unsafe or threatened by others walking in the neighborhood. I occasionally walk to the c-store, right past where this happened.

3. A block from the incident site is Christian Park School, as well as Christian Park. From the story, apparently Gabe lives a block or so north of the park on a quiet street. It's a wonderful neighborhood for walking and I fully understand why he loved walking his dog there.

4. I can't see how any neighborhood organization or other crime-fighting techniques would have prevented this. There just aren't going to be "eyes on the street" at 11:30pm.

Hope the thugs spend a long time in the klink after they're caught.

I saw this .... and almost started to pack my bags and leave town!!!! (... I'm in shock..... clearly!) This is what we should never even consider doing, yet here it is, for every suburbanite to drool over. Who even proposed this ???? Why should we do what every other city does. Wheres the individualism? Wouldn't it be great to tackle a transit fiasco without building more roads, and instead building upon what we have. This is straight up criminal. IMI or someone has to be slipping money under the table to get something like this on the drawing boards. I hope its this preposterous to everyone else on this board !!! we might as well just loop anderson into this while were at it. ... Nothing but quality B.S. Why are we widening 465 if this is attempting to divert traffic off 465.... ? The ignorance present in this proposal is overwhelming. Lets hope it never happens.

I like the IBJ's coverage compared to the Star, but this seems fanciful at best. Very few of the legs of this loop are contemplated as true highways, and it's hart for me to imagine that as currently contemplated, the 146th Street to Reagan Parkway route would be a quicker way between Plainfield and Carmel than 465. Certainly, even given existing populations, I suppose it makes sense to make it a bit easier to travel between suburbs on the same side of town, but taking the "outer loop" from downtown Carmel to downtown Plainfield would add 5 miles to the trip and would be on roads with stoplights. Anything approximating a loop is decades away, and who knows what our transportation priorities will be then?

I don't see the point in some of you guys getting mad over this whole "Outer Loop" arterial. It just looks to me like another four lane suburban road...except this is a connection of them all which likely won't be very fast and won't be complete for years.

They've been developing roads like this for years out there. I didn't see anyone getting mad at Hamilton Town Center or all that new development on the far NE side...why get mad at this then? Sheesh.

:ohno::ohno:

I don't see the point in some of you guys getting mad over this whole "Outer Loop" arterial. It just looks to me like another four lane suburban road...except this is a connection of them all which likely won't be very fast and won't be complete for years.

They've been developing roads like this for years out there. I didn't see anyone getting mad at Hamilton Town Center or all that new development on the far NE side...why get mad at this then? Sheesh.

:ohno::ohno:

Yeah, I thought the story was kinda silly. There's no outer loop now, and there's clearly no coordinated effort to create one. It would be like talking about 38th Street, Emerson, Raymond, & Holt being an inner-loop, except almost all those connections actually exist.

I think the story actually highlights how little road connectivity the Indy metro area has, the benefits or disadvantages of which might be a good topic for debate.

I saw this .... and almost started to pack my bags and leave town!!!! (... I'm in shock..... clearly!) This is what we should never even consider doing, yet here it is, for every suburbanite to drool over. Who even proposed this ???? Why should we do what every other city does. Wheres the individualism? Wouldn't it be great to tackle a transit fiasco without building more roads, and instead building upon what we have. This is straight up criminal. IMI or someone has to be slipping money under the table to get something like this on the drawing boards. I hope its this preposterous to everyone else on this board !!! we might as well just loop anderson into this while were at it. ... Nothing but quality B.S. Why are we widening 465 if this is attempting to divert traffic off 465.... ? The ignorance present in this proposal is overwhelming. Lets hope it never happens.

Take some deep breaths. Count to 10...

Honestly, get a grip. Suburban local governments are building roads. (How dare they?) There is no coordination between them. It's not like the state is building another beltway. This is a story about municipalities upgrading their infrastructure to suit an increased population.

Actually, there was a such a road. Multiple of them. Kessler Blvd might be the original. State Road 100 (which originally included Shadeland Ave. and 82nd/86th) was another.

Actually, there was a such a road. Multiple of them. Kessler Blvd might be the original. State Road 100 (which originally included Shadeland Ave. and 82nd/86th) was another.

SR 100 was a north-east bypass, which allowed through traffic on US52, US40, and US421 headed to and from Chicago to avoid Downtown Indianapolis.

It's probably also some of the original commercial and industrial sprawl in Indy. Shadeland from Brookville up to 38th has but a handful of houses between 10th & 18th, but it had many of the east side's major postwar employers (Chrysler, Western Electric, RCA Records, Jenn-Air, Kroger, Ford, Wonder Bread), its car dealers, and other auto-dependent uses like an early power center/mall (Eastgate).

As late as the early 80's, the space between Allisonville Rd. and White River was largely taken up by gravel pits; there were no traffic signals between Keystone Crossing Blvd and Allisonville, the David Wolf bridge was two lanes, and the speed limit was 55. It was spooky at night.

That the same patterns of development are now unfolding 20 miles out shouldn't really be a surprise to anyone. Before long, there will be pressure to move Mt. Comfort Airport another county out where it won't disturb the nearby tan subdivision residents (as has happened with Metro Airport in Fishers)...plus the land will be too valuable to keep as runways and buffers.

Planning (by plan commissions or MPO) won't change people's choices, and so demand for plowing under more beanfields will continue until people's choices change enough that it becomes less profitable for governments to encourage developers to do it.

The Colts hosted a game in Lucas Oil Stadium just this past Sunday, but pictures of mice feces in a Lucas Oil Stadium food pantry are shots managers would probably rather you not know about.

Video on health code violations at Lucas Oil Stadium / Centerplate Catering (http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-mice-poop-at-lucas-oil-stadium-111009,0,3442478.story)


Really? You have got to be kidding me. Who gave this company the contract? This is the most easily preventable problem in the food industry, especially with new facilities!! I can't believe this!

I guess they could have picked the cheapest bidder, and Centerplate is cutting costs by hiring unqualified and uneducated food service staff??

IBJ Video: Highest LEED Certification Nature Conservancy Building (http://media.ibj.com/IBJ/videoPlayer/videoPlayer.php?category=AudioSlides&video=3)

Video outlines the green features of the new building. This is great and hopefully will help Indy to move even further in the right direction! Thanks to the Nature Conservancy for leading by example!

Actually, what's notable is that the suburbs are collaborating to make sure these corridors connect and serve as regional routes. That's critically important. One of the biggest sources of traffic congestion in suburban areas over time is a lack of "crosstown" access. Almost all improved corridors are radial, but with growth, suburb to suburb commuting happens over time. Hamilton County is a leader here. The county signed deals with all the towns that it would control 146th and Olio Rd. Part of that deal restricts the ability of towns to put in curb cuts and stop lights. They want to keep the road for longer distance trips, not serving adjacent land, though obviously the road is also a major commercial artery.

There is only one road in all of Marion County that fully traverses it from one side to the other: Washington St. (10th, Meridian, and 86th/82nd/79th come close, as does 38th until it hits the reservoir. The suburbs are trying to plan out their thoroughfare network to make sure there is good regional connectivity. A great move.

It's senseless and shocking and close to home. (Something woke me Sunday evening; it was probably police and ambulance sirens.) I don't know Gabe. He has my best wishes for a speedy recovery.


I also live very close to where this happened (about a mile north). It most certainly is senseless. I agree with most everything cdc said. Its not normally an area where you would feel "at risk" walking through.

I've lived in the area for about 7 years and like it a lot, but when people reference crimes like these as their reason for moving to the outer suburbs I just shrug my shoulders. What do you say to that? They have a right to feel safe. And when something like this happens to a good person it takes a little of that security away. Incidents like this are not only a problem for the east side but most of marion county's urban spaces and even some of the inner ring suburbs. The same day that gabe was shot an elderly family in a neighborhood just north of the airport was victimized by a home invasion and beating.

basically my point is that security from crimes like these is just as important as improvements to infrastrcture, public transit, and urban design. A city like indianapolis will not succeed if the public does not feel safe.

IBJ Video: Highest LEED Certification Nature Conservancy Building (http://media.ibj.com/IBJ/videoPlayer/videoPlayer.php?category=AudioSlides&video=3)

Video outlines the green features of the new building. This is great and hopefully will help Indy to move even further in the right direction! Thanks to the Nature Conservancy for leading by example!

That is really fantastic to see! And I applaud them for striving for Platinum. I sure hope they get it.

I drive by the construction site every day on my way home and I have to say, it's shaping up to be a lot more attractive than I initially thought. From the first renders, I was afraid it was going to look like my elementary school. But thankfully it's showing a lot more character than that...mostly I think due to the materials (so far). I really like the look of old, salvaged brick facade contrasting against the sharp, clean Indiana limestone facade.

There is only one road in all of Marion County that fully traverses it from one side to the other: Washington St. (10th, Meridian, and 86th/82nd/79th come close, as does 38th until it hits the reservoir


Raymond St. comes pretty close as well.

Raymond St. comes pretty close as well.

Meridian Street/SR 135/US 31 would also run the full north-south length of Marion County if it weren't for the discontinuity created by the 1990s introduction of the Lilly Faris Campus.

I also live very close to where this happened (about a mile north). It most certainly is senseless. I agree with most everything cdc said. Its not normally an area where you would feel "at risk" walking through.

I've lived in the area for about 7 years and like it a lot, but when people reference crimes like these as their reason for moving to the outer suburbs I just shrug my shoulders. What do you say to that? They have a right to feel safe. And when something like this happens to a good person it takes a little of that security away. Incidents like this are not only a problem for the east side but most of marion county's urban spaces and even some of the inner ring suburbs. The same day that gabe was shot an elderly family in a neighborhood just north of the airport was victimized by a home invasion and beating.

basically my point is that security from crimes like these is just as important as improvements to infrastrcture, public transit, and urban design. A city like indianapolis will not succeed if the public does not feel safe.


There's no proof that this incident (http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=11472304) is related to what happened to Gabe, but it sure sounds like it is. Two armed men (at least one of whom was really anxious to shoot somebody), same night, pretty close to where Gabe got shot.

For anyone interested, Gabe's family has put up a website (http://gabejordan.org/) to keep everyone informed of his progress.

The folks at Goose the Market also have a website (http://www.gabebrookejordan.blogspot.com/) up.

WTF is wrong with people... I read about someone who got shot close to Jimmy Johns on halloween night in Broad Ripple. Dude who got shot said he thought it was a play gun, turned around, and then was shot.

There is only one road in all of Marion County that fully traverses it from one side to the other: Washington St. (10th, Meridian, and 86th/82nd/79th come close, as does 38th until it hits the reservoir. The suburbs are trying to plan out their thoroughfare network to make sure there is good regional connectivity. A great move.

I think the old US31 corridor (Meridian/Madison) does qualify.
56th/Kessler definitely qualifies.

Keystone/Rural is close.
Thompson/Camby is close.
Raymond is close.
Keystone/Rural is close.
Emerson/Binford is close.
Five Points/Shadeland/Hague (or Bash/Masters) is close.

Most of these fail for significant natural or built obstacles (rivers, airport, reservoirs)

There are a number of old mile-grid county roads that are primary arterials and cover between half and 3/4 of the E-W or N-S distance of Marion County (Arlington, Post, 16th, 30th, 71st, High School, Girls School, Southport). I think the suburban counties are simply following that model.

The problem, of course, is that they aren't also building secondary arterials that connect the grid in between the mile squares. They're building Winding Lanes and Cul-de-Sac Courts. That creates peaking and congestion problems at the mile-square nodes. Carmel's solution to that is roundabouts, but that's just a band-aid and it's not too pedestrian friendly or urban.

I also live very close to where this happened (about a mile north). It most certainly is senseless. I agree with most everything cdc said. Its not normally an area where you would feel "at risk" walking through.

I've lived in the area for about 7 years and like it a lot, but when people reference crimes like these as their reason for moving to the outer suburbs I just shrug my shoulders. What do you say to that? They have a right to feel safe. And when something like this happens to a good person it takes a little of that security away. Incidents like this are not only a problem for the east side but most of marion county's urban spaces and even some of the inner ring suburbs. The same day that gabe was shot an elderly family in a neighborhood just north of the airport was victimized by a home invasion and beating.

basically my point is that security from crimes like these is just as important as improvements to infrastrcture, public transit, and urban design. A city like indianapolis will not succeed if the public does not feel safe.

When I lived in a very desirable part of Meridian-Kessler, one time there was a shooting outside on my street; another time, a series of robberies of my neighbors. When I lived east of the Monon, a BR shooting suspect ran through the neighborhood and was cornered by police and shot to death just down the block at the neighborhood school.

I don't consider they city unsafe because of 3 violent incidents near my homes over a 25 year span. But others might, and they're welcome to flee...but when they take their money and things and nice houses to the 'burbs, guess what?

Violence goes where people, cars, drugs, booze and money go. Which is everywhere.

There's no proof that this incident (http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=11472304) is related to what happened to Gabe, but it sure sounds like it is. Two armed men (at least one of whom was really anxious to shoot somebody), same night, pretty close to where Gabe got shot.

Hmm. It's about three miles to the Kroger at 10th & Shortridge from Emerson & English, a five-seven minute drive. Both are connected by the 55 busline, but it doesn't run on weekends or late at night.

I think I agree with Matt.

Unfortunately a blind man and a wounded man with serious neurological trauma probably can't identify cars that might have been parked nearby...or give good descriptions of the perps.

I don't consider they city unsafe because of 3 violent incidents near my homes over a 25 year span. But others might, and they're welcome to flee...but when they take their money and things and nice houses to the 'burbs, guess what?

Violence goes where people, cars, drugs, booze and money go. Which is everywhere.

I agree with you, but this is the logic that people use.

BTW.. I saw this headline in the IndyStar today. Another robbery 4200 E New York..2 armed men but they caught the guys;-) I bet there's a 50-50 chance these are the same 2 guys.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091111/NEWS02/911110393/-1/ARCHIVE/Police+chase+ends+with+Eastside+crash

I agree with you, but this is the logic that people use.

BTW.. I saw this headline in the IndyStar today. Another robbery 4200 E New York..2 armed men but they caught the guys;-) I bet there's a 50-50 chance these are the same 2 guys.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091111/NEWS02/911110393/-1/ARCHIVE/Police+chase+ends+with+Eastside+crash

Holy crap. I drive past that liquor store every day on the way to work. It's just north on Colorado from where Pleasant Run goes under the RR trax from the Christian Park neighborhood up to Washington, Michigan, and NY.

If it's connected, these guys were seriously working our 'hood. Hope they don't make bail tonight.

Please check out my photography site to see many photos from around Indianapolis. Thanks.

http://www.carlvanrooy.com

Very well done Carl! I dont usually like music on websites, but its pretty nice on yours. VERY well built website as well.

Keep up the good work

Carl, I follow you on Flickr and have been drooling over your work since you shot the fire at the Cosmo. I still hate music on sites but your work makes up for it. It's great to see Indy's beauty captured by great talent.

Great work! Keep updating your Flickr :)

There are a number of old mile-grid county roads that are primary arterials and cover between half and 3/4 of the E-W or N-S distance of Marion County (Arlington, Post, 16th, 30th, 71st, High School, Girls School, Southport). I think the suburban counties are simply following that model.

The problem, of course, is that they aren't also building secondary arterials that connect the grid in between the mile squares. They're building Winding Lanes and Cul-de-Sac Courts. That creates peaking and congestion problems at the mile-square nodes. Carmel's solution to that is roundabouts, but that's just a band-aid and it's not too pedestrian friendly or urban.

It would seem that they're following Marion County's lead on the matter as well. Does Marion County (outside of Center Township) have plans for any through streets aside from the mile interval arterials?

haha,see it again

It would seem that they're following Marion County's lead on the matter as well. Does Marion County (outside of Center Township) have plans for any through streets aside from the mile interval arterials?

I'm most familiar with Center, Washington, Warren, and Lawrence (and to some degree, Pike). All have good secondary arterials at least every half-mile on the grid, but the newer an area is, the more likely it is to end at Cul-De-Sac Ct. or into a shopping center. The southern townships were never streetcar suburbs and so exhibit the development patterns of post-WW2 suburbia.

We do have good "radials" as well as partial crosstowns all over the city/county: Crawfordsville, Lafayette, Michigan Rd., Allisonville, Binford/Fall Creek, Mass Ave./Pendleton Pike, Brookville, Southeastern, Churchman Ave., Shelbyville Rd., Bluff Rd., Kentucky Ave. All are useful connectors, even for trips that don't go through downtown.

The county seats in the suburban counties usually have radials too, but not to the extent that Indianapolis does. Noblesville, Mooresville, and Franklin all have some.

Please check out my photography site to see many photos from around Indianapolis. Thanks.

http://www.carlvanrooy.com

Nice gallery! Keep up the good work!

Four of the US' twenty-five most expensive airports to fly from are close to Indianapolis: Cincinnati, Fort Wayne, Evansville, and O'Hare. (Cincinnati is #1 in the US, not just the region.)

Not a list that's beneficial to economic development. If I were Fort Wayne, or the region between Indy and Evansville, or the I-65 and I-74 corridors, I'd be pitching proximity to IND as an advantage.

Please check out my photography site to see many photos from around Indianapolis. Thanks.

http://www.carlvanrooy.com

Very cool, brooding photos. Time lapsed skies and vivid colorization make for a surreal quality. Well done.

I'm most familiar with Center, Washington, Warren, and Lawrence (and to some degree, Pike). All have good secondary arterials at least every half-mile on the grid, but the newer an area is, the more likely it is to end at Cul-De-Sac Ct. or into a shopping center. The southern townships were never streetcar suburbs and so exhibit the development patterns of post-WW2 suburbia.

We do have good "radials" as well as partial crosstowns all over the city/county: Crawfordsville, Lafayette, Michigan Rd., Allisonville, Binford/Fall Creek, Mass Ave./Pendleton Pike, Brookville, Southeastern, Churchman Ave., Shelbyville Rd., Bluff Rd., Kentucky Ave. All are useful connectors, even for trips that don't go through downtown.

The county seats in the suburban counties usually have radials too, but not to the extent that Indianapolis does. Noblesville, Mooresville, and Franklin all have some.

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/Planning/Maps/Transportation/marioncountythoroughfareplan.pdf
I'm not seeing much in the way of half-mile intervals on the County Thoroughfare Plan.

Aside from Southeastern & Massachusetts (which nobody wants to be on east of downtown), most of the diagonals (Michigan, Lafayette, Kentucky, Brookville, W. Washington) appear to, at best, take the place of the mile-interval arterials.

New fountain being installed in Fountain Square this morning:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091113/NEWS/911130401/1001

http://cmsimg.indystar.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=BG&Date=20091113&Category=NEWS&ArtNo=911130401&Ref=AR&Profile=1001&MaxW=320

Haven't seen a good Preposterous Idea posted here for a while. I don't remember for sure, but someone else may have mentioned a similar idea here a long while ago.

Could the IndyGo bus hub be moved from in front of the Federal Court building to inside it? Here is what I know:

Large parts of the building are unused
It is beautiful inside (http://www.insd.uscourts.gov/Publications/USCHVisitorsGuide.pdf), and most people have never seen it.
It has auto ramps that lead into and out of the building; I think they were built for postal trucks that no longer use them
Talking crazy here: a waiting area could be built inside what is now the light well in the middle of the building, similar to what is proposed for Moynihan Station (http://www.moynihanstation.org/) in New York (to create a replacement for Penn Station in the Post Office building across the street).

Haven't seen a good Preposterous Idea posted here for a while. I don't remember for sure, but someone else may have mentioned a similar idea here a long while ago.

Could the IndyGo bus hub be moved from in front of the Federal Court building to inside it? Here is what I know:

Large parts of the building are unused
It is beautiful inside (http://www.insd.uscourts.gov/Publications/USCHVisitorsGuide.pdf), and most people have never seen it.
It has auto ramps that lead into and out of the building; I think they were built for postal trucks that no longer use them
Talking crazy here: a waiting area could be built inside what is now the light well in the middle of the building, similar to what is proposed for Moynihan Station (http://www.moynihanstation.org/) in New York (to create a replacement for Penn Station in the Post Office building across the street).


Preposterous! I love it!

Haven't seen a good Preposterous Idea posted here for a while. I don't remember for sure, but someone else may have mentioned a similar idea here a long while ago.

Could the IndyGo bus hub be moved from in front of the Federal Court building to inside it? Here is what I know:

Large parts of the building are unused
It is beautiful inside (http://www.insd.uscourts.gov/Publications/USCHVisitorsGuide.pdf), and most people have never seen it.
It has auto ramps that lead into and out of the building; I think they were built for postal trucks that no longer use them
Talking crazy here: a waiting area could be built inside what is now the light well in the middle of the building, similar to what is proposed for Moynihan Station (http://www.moynihanstation.org/) in New York (to create a replacement for Penn Station in the Post Office building across the street).



I think the days of being able to enter a Federal building of any kind with out going through security are long gone. Being able to drive inside of them is even crazier. I like the idea of an old school grand central station feel to an Indianapolis bus hub, but putting it inside of the Federal Court house, as you said, is preposterous.

I think that the old city county building that was demolished when the current city county build was finished would have been great for this concept...

Maybe the old Indiana State Museum (I think... the interim library) could be altered to create a similar kind of station.

Anyone else go to the PechaKucha event at the IMA last night? I was impressed with the large crowd (sold out) interested in future ideas for Indianapolis. The central city neighborhoods got a lot of love --- heard a lot of positive ideas and cheers for ideas in areas like Cottage Home, Fountain Square, E. 10th, Devington. I didn't stay until the end to find out who won. I thought the gal that talked about the urban gardening project in WRSP did a great job, I liked the large "26 letters of the alphabet" sculptures idea - as placemaking things with bike parking connected to them; also - the Second Story project for children to write and make their own books got a lot of cheers. Many other interesting ideas. Anyone know who ended up "winning"?

Anyone else go to the PechaKucha event at the IMA last night? I was impressed with the large crowd (sold out) interested in future ideas for Indianapolis. The central city neighborhoods got a lot of love --- heard a lot of positive ideas and cheers for ideas in areas like Cottage Home, Fountain Square, E. 10th, Devington. I didn't stay until the end to find out who won. I thought the gal that talked about the urban gardening project in WRSP did a great job, I liked the large "26 letters of the alphabet" sculptures idea - as placemaking things with bike parking connected to them; also - the Second Story project for children to write and make their own books got a lot of cheers. Many other interesting ideas. Anyone know who ended up "winning"?

I missed out, but I know a bunch of people who went. I was surprised that there was so much interest! I love how the art/culture scene in Indy has grown to accept broader modern trends. It really does feel like something special has been going on in our city. Growth, community, food, art... all have been getting better and better!

Eddie, my wife was the curator at Dean Johnson for 2 1/2 years up until this summer when she stepped down. I was there every First Friday and it is nice to see a lot of people, artist and not so artist. So when it comes to appreciating this, I am right there with you. We spend a lot of time trying to help grow this sort of thing.

The gardening project won. The East 10th St. narrative murals also received some special funding from LISC and CICF.

By the way, the guy who presented the bike racks idea is ablerock on this forum.

I think the days of being able to enter a Federal building of any kind with out going through security are long gone. Being able to drive inside of them is even crazier. I like the idea of an old school grand central station feel to an Indianapolis bus hub, but putting it inside of the Federal Court house, as you said, is preposterous.

I think that the old city county building that was demolished when the current city county build was finished would have been great for this concept...

Maybe the old Indiana State Museum (I think... the interim library) could be altered to create a similar kind of station.

OK, new plan: put the Federal Court in the old State Museum building first.

Even more preposterous: after the commuter rail from Fishers has been around for many years and is a proven success, run the last leg of it under Ohio Street, and make it a train station too.

Ablerock.... what is your bike rack idea? I helped install the black U's up and down Mass Ave. I ride a lot so I am interested!

Thanks Arenn for providing the results of the PechaKucha event. I think the urban garden at WRSP will be a wonderful thing. It will be located right where so many hundreds of thousands (millions?) of people will see it - and will help spread the message of great urban gardening. She (the winner) was on the cover of NUVO two weeks ago for her leadership with the new Winter Market in Chatham Arch. She definitely is another great person to have in our community - excellently representing the new/next generation. Also --- Thanks for your help setting it up / judging / whatever else your involvement was with the event Arenn.

Carl, I follow you on Flickr and have been drooling over your work since you shot the fire at the Cosmo. I still hate music on sites but your work makes up for it. It's great to see Indy's beauty captured by great talent.

Great work! Keep updating your Flickr :)

Conratulations of having said photograph published in the CaptureIndy book!

Preposterous Idea II:

Get rid of the downtown bus rodeo and use streetcars (http://indianapolisstreetcar.org/home.html) instead.

Start with a downtown circulator to replace the bus rodeo.

Create an east-west loop on Washington/Maryland from CCB/Jail/Conseco to WRSP/Zoo (utilizing the old Washington St. Bridge), and a north-south loop on Meridian from South St. to The Children's Museum. These would connect the most important parts of the tourist/convention infrastructure in a novel (some would say preposterous) way.

Allow IndyGo buslines to "touch and go" (i.e. exit the loop upon dropoff and pickup at a single point) to increase frequency without increasing driver/operating time messing around in the rodeo loop; create some separated bus-and-streetcar-only lanes on Ohio, Maryland, Capitol, and Delaware.

Thanks Arenn for providing the results of the PechaKucha event. I think the urban garden at WRSP will be a wonderful thing. It will be located right where so many hundreds of thousands (millions?) of people will see it - and will help spread the message of great urban gardening. She (the winner) was on the cover of NUVO two weeks ago for her leadership with the new Winter Market in Chatham Arch. She definitely is another great person to have in our community - excellently representing the new/next generation. Also --- Thanks for your help setting it up / judging / whatever else your involvement was with the event Arenn.

Are the PK slideshows available online anywhere?

Preposterous Idea II:

Get rid of the downtown bus rodeo and use streetcars (http://indianapolisstreetcar.org/home.html) instead.

Start with a downtown circulator to replace the bus rodeo.

Create an east-west loop on Washington/Maryland from CCB/Jail/Conseco to WRSP/Zoo (utilizing the old Washington St. Bridge), and a north-south loop on Meridian from South St. to The Children's Museum. These would connect the most important parts of the tourist/convention infrastructure in a novel (some would say preposterous) way.

Allow IndyGo buslines to "touch and go" (i.e. exit the loop upon dropoff and pickup at a single point) to increase frequency without increasing driver/operating time messing around in the rodeo loop; create some separated bus-and-streetcar-only lanes on Ohio, Maryland, Capitol, and Delaware.

Street Cars.... what a modern idea! Would that really put indy into the 21st century!

I live near a power substation in meridian park that apparently used to supply part of our trolley car system that was so ingeniously sold to Brazil and replaced with diesel buses in the 60/70's (?)

It would be like looking 50 years backward into the future! I love it.

indianapolis-interurban-electric-streetcar-traction-terminal-was-world-s-largest-amp-busiest.aspx (http://myprogressiverailroading.com/blogs/railwayist/archive/2009/09/27/indianapolis-interurban-electric-streetcar-traction-terminal-was-world-s-largest-amp-busiest.aspx)

In all seriousness... I like the idea, we need this or something like it!

Preposterous Idea II:

Get rid of the downtown bus rodeo and use streetcars (http://indianapolisstreetcar.org/home.html) instead.



What is the advantage of streetcars over electric buses? I once rode around San Francisco for 5 days on electric buses with no problem...then the one time I tried to take a cable car it got stuck behind a double-parked car because it couldn't change lanes.

What is the advantage of streetcars over electric buses? I once rode around San Francisco for 5 days on electric buses with no problem...then the one time I tried to take a cable car it got stuck behind a double-parked car because it couldn't change lanes.

The buses in SF also have issues when they disconnect from the overhead power lines and cause downtime. Happened a couple times with me. In the end, every system has its downsides.

Preposterous Idea II:

Get rid of the downtown bus rodeo and use streetcars (http://indianapolisstreetcar.org/home.html) instead.

Start with a downtown circulator to replace the bus rodeo.

Create an east-west loop on Washington/Maryland from CCB/Jail/Conseco to WRSP/Zoo (utilizing the old Washington St. Bridge), and a north-south loop on Meridian from South St. to The Children's Museum. These would connect the most important parts of the tourist/convention infrastructure in a novel (some would say preposterous) way.

Allow IndyGo buslines to "touch and go" (i.e. exit the loop upon dropoff and pickup at a single point) to increase frequency without increasing driver/operating time messing around in the rodeo loop; create some separated bus-and-streetcar-only lanes on Ohio, Maryland, Capitol, and Delaware.

Aside from using the old Wash St bridge, all of that can and should be done. Not preposterous at all. :)

What is the advantage of streetcars over electric buses? I once rode around San Francisco for 5 days on electric buses with no problem...then the one time I tried to take a cable car it got stuck behind a double-parked car because it couldn't change lanes.

For me there is a lot to be said for the permanency of a street car. Since you can actually see the tracks people know where it goes. I know it is just psychological... but I think it does make a difference when you are trying to change a car culture into a transit culture.

The traffic lights, timing, and frequency of service can all be improved with actual rail. There are no numbers and obscure routes on a circulator, and being different from the bus system helps people to know they are not on their way to greenwood when they were trying to get to iupui. (I know it sounds stupid, but the simpler and easier the system is to understand the more people who would not normally use it in Indianapolis will use it. People who have never learned about our bus system don't just wake up and decide to study our screwed up hub and spoke system in the odd case that they might want to us public transportation.) It could be a good "bridge" to an extensive LR system.

When I visited Huston I rode on the light rail street car system... and never rode on a bus. Same thing in SF. The same with Chi, NY, and DC... (Though those are very extensive commuter rail systems.)

The quality of ride on a bus also sucks... and I think they have a pretty negative image among typical car centered people in Indianapolis. When i tell some one that I will just take the bus 9 out of 10 times I get a crazy look or someone expresses their concern for my safety. (Ignorance)

There are definitely places that use bus rapid transit systems, but they usually have the room to create dedicated bus lanes and they have great bus terminal facilities that rival most subway/LR stations.

At first glance electric buses seem like they would be comparable in cost to a streetcar system. Big batteries for electric buses are very expensive and they have a relatively short life span. The infrastructure for rail is also expensive, but it lasts much longer and the trains/ street cars are very low maintenance. I can't say for sure, but it seems like replacing fleets of buses and batteries over 75 years can be just as expensive as making an upfront investment and building something with more longevity. It also seems like the labor operating costs of rail could be cheaper because you can always just add another car instead of needing another bus driver.

Just my thoughts...

Off topic, but it appears the rest of Allisonville Road is ready to be marked for bike lanes. they have had them spray painted in all this week and I finally saw the bike lane signs appear yesterday.

Also, concerning bike lanes, its very frustrating on NY trying to watch out for the other cars. I feel like people cannot follow the lanes correctly. I almost got side swiped last night by someone not paying attention to how the auto lanes move back and forth

Off topic, but it appears the rest of Allisonville Road is ready to be marked for bike lanes. they have had them spray painted in all this week and I finally saw the bike lane signs appear yesterday.


Have any pictures? Would love to get something up on the indycog about it.

Not at the moment. Im usually hauling ass to get to school or work. I can snap some on the way home today and get them to you this weekend. I always have a camera with me, so I will stop on the way home tonight.

Got an email address or is there one on indy cog that would be suitable to get at ya?

Some of the previous PK events were You Tube'd, but I'm not aware of the slides being anywhere unless the presenters posted them themselves.

Not at the moment. Im usually hauling ass to get to school or work. I can snap some on the way home today and get them to you this weekend. I always have a camera with me, so I will stop on the way home tonight.

Got an email address or is there one on indy cog that would be suitable to get at ya?

benjamin AT theindycog DOT com

That'll work. Obviously we will credit you and provide a link to your blog (which I read by the way, good stuff!)

Sent ya an email. Hope they work for ya.

Very cool "dream map" of transit in Columbus:

http://tyznik.com/transportation/tramtrain/

I've mentioned previously that I think Washington Street should be transformed into a beautiful boulevard and should become the spine of the cultural trail… I think it would be great to return Maryland and Washington Streets back into 2-ways and connect Maryland into Washington Street at simple 4-way, urban intersections. On the east side, the current configuration of this one-couplet renders the block bound by Washington, New Jersey, Maryland and Alabama an inhospitable island of surface parking surrounded by auto-oriented, one-way auto gutters. Joining Maryland at the New Jersey/Washington Street intersection would improve circulation, create a consistent streetscape on Washington, increase real estate values and add a lot of on-street parking.

I understand this configuration would slow traffic... even so, I think that would be a net positive. In any case, Washington Street is a two-way, four lane street on both sides of downtown and Maryland doesn't even exist outside of the mile-square. I don’t think this would be unreasonable.

Maryland terminating into the Washington/New Jersey intersection:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2574/4104485553_85fa2ed428.jpg

Maryland terminating into the Washington/New Jersey intersection:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2628/4105252654_af61fecf26.jpg

Possible integration of the Cultural Trail onto Washington Street
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3578/3681060476_36e4fdbcac_o.jpg:

I REALLY like option two. Very good work!

Now only if we had grand intelligence running this city, I'd have optimism. :nuts:

It's not often that Portland, OR praises another City for their innovative urban planning projects, but recently, a blogger posted the following on the Portland's transportation website. I thought it was great that his post titled "Indianapolis's Incredible Trail", he followed it up by writing "That's right Portland, I said Indianapolis".

http://www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?c=45195&a=266750


Indianapolis's Incredible Trail - Printable Version (http://www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?print=1&c=45195&a=266750) - October 9, 2009 - 0 Comments


As I arrived at work this morning my esteemed co-worker and fellow Commuter Central blogger, Steve Hoyt-McBeth (http://www.portlandonline.com/shared/cfm/image.cfm?id=168207), was all fired up. He giddily called me over to his computer where he was exploring the Indianapolis Cultural Trust's website (http://www.indyculturaltrail.org/) and their new innovative greenway trail.

This trail is no cowpath stuck out on the outskirts of town. The Cultural Trail links many of the central city's vibrant cultural and employment centers and provides a safe and, frankly, beautiful corridor for walkers and cyclists through downtown. Will this trail become the backbone of a city-wide trail system? That's not in the cards yet, but the trail could really lead to a renaissance of active transportation in Indianapolis, thus changing the current transportation culture.

[CENTER]
Indianapolis Cultural Trail (http://vimeo.com/6578628) from Gail Payne (http://vimeo.com/user2300119) on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/).

In case anyone else is curious, here are those photos of the bike lanes on Allisonville. This is near Delmar Road.

http://hustonstreetracing.com/gallery2/images/all_bike_2.jpg

http://hustonstreetracing.com/gallery2/images/all_bike_1.jpg

http://hustonstreetracing.com/gallery2/images/all_bike_3.jpg

Nice! Now that we have the bike lanes in, how about some sidewalks? :P

Does anybody know why White River Parkway is closed just south of where it merges with Lafeyette Rd?

I'm most familiar with Center, Washington, Warren, and Lawrence (and to some degree, Pike). All have good secondary arterials at least every half-mile on the grid, but the newer an area is, the more likely it is to end at Cul-De-Sac Ct. or into a shopping center. The southern townships were never streetcar suburbs and so exhibit the development patterns of post-WW2 suburbia.


While the southern townships were never streetcar suburbs in the same sense as the College Avenue corridor to the north, the south side definitely had interurban stops, as I'm sure you are aware from the street names (Stop 10, 11, 12, 13 all the way to a Stop 18 in the south side of Greenwood). The Homecroft neighborhood was most definitely an interurban stop, and I suspect that Southport had one as well.

You can tell from development patterns that the oldest parts of the Indianapolis southside sprawled in a southeasterly direction, along Madison/Shelby/Carson Avenue as arterials (or maybe even the path currently occupied by I-65), where it leads into Beech Grove. Conversely, East Street/U.S. 31 and Meridian Street turn suburban or even rural quite fast as one goes further south.

Nice! Now that we have the bike lanes in, how about some sidewalks? :P

I wonder if it will be legal to walk in the bike lane...

Coming back into town last night at 8:45pm it was awesome to see all the downtown buildings lit up as usual for the Colts game. Interestingly, the City-County Building had almost every single office light turned on last night. It really made that building pop as I was coming in on 70 from the east. Usually that building is a dark shell that you hardly notice at night.

Is that typical for big games and I've just never noticed? If not, kudos to the city official that decided to get that done for last night.

I've mentioned previously that I think Washington Street should be transformed into a beautiful boulevard and should become the spine of the cultural trail… I think it would be great to return Maryland and Washington Streets back into 2-ways and connect Maryland into Washington Street at simple 4-way, urban intersections. On the east side, the current configuration of this one-couplet renders the block bound by Washington, New Jersey, Maryland and Alabama an inhospitable island of surface parking surrounded by auto-oriented, one-way auto gutters. Joining Maryland at the New Jersey/Washington Street intersection would improve circulation, create a consistent streetscape on Washington, increase real estate values and add a lot of on-street parking.

I understand this configuration would slow traffic... even so, I think that would be a net positive. In any case, Washington Street is a two-way, four lane street on both sides of downtown and Maryland doesn't even exist outside of the mile-square. I don’t think this would be unreasonable.


You know, NYC doesn't seem to suffer from some of its primary dowtown streets being one-way. It's probably a necessary evil from a traffic-management point of view.

Coming back into town last night at 8:45pm it was awesome to see all the downtown buildings lit up as usual for the Colts game. Interestingly, the City-County Building had almost every single office light turned on last night. It really made that building pop as I was coming in on 70 from the east. Usually that building is a dark shell that you hardly notice at night.

Is that typical for big games and I've just never noticed? If not, kudos to the city official that decided to get that done for last night.

When I worked security at Indiana Square the housekeepers turned on all the office lights for Monday Night Football. Then after the game security would turn them all off. It was usually at IDI's request.

I know this dude was a hit on here a while back. I thought I would post that he was back online

http://nopromiseofsafety.com/

Does anybody know why White River Parkway is closed just south of where it merges with Lafeyette Rd?

Sewer work (http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DPW/Environment/CleanStream/Projects/Pages/CrookedCreekAreaSewerImprovements.aspx).

Sweeping Boston this past weekend?! :cheers:

Coming back into town last night at 8:45pm it was awesome to see all the downtown buildings lit up as usual for the Colts game. Interestingly, the City-County Building had almost every single office light turned on last night. It really made that building pop as I was coming in on 70 from the east. Usually that building is a dark shell that you hardly notice at night.

Is that typical for big games and I've just never noticed? If not, kudos to the city official that decided to get that done for last night.

For anyone who watched on TV:

How did the city look on NBC-TV? Like CorrND, I noticed the CCB lit up and it didn't look like its usual great gray self. I can't remember if it was lit up for last year's "game of the century".

Was there comment about the noise factor in the stadium? I'm curious whether it was measured with a dB meter (as used to happen at the RCA Dome). My personal opinion is that the new place is about as loud, even though it is much larger, owing to the steel roof.

BTW, that was by far the most exciting Colts game at LOS in terms of sheer drama and outcome, probably second only to the AFC Championship in Indy Colts history. Crowd behavior afterward was unlike any regular-season game, ever.

I know this dude was a hit on here a while back. I thought I would post that he was back online

http://nopromiseofsafety.com/

gracias

Coming back into town last night at 8:45pm it was awesome to see all the downtown buildings lit up as usual for the Colts game. Interestingly, the City-County Building had almost every single office light turned on last night. It really made that building pop as I was coming in on 70 from the east. Usually that building is a dark shell that you hardly notice at night.

Is that typical for big games and I've just never noticed? If not, kudos to the city official that decided to get that done for last night.

I was at the game at the Bud Light End Zone area (where the wondows open at LOS) and the CCb was very noticable!

Does anyone know what is going on at the corner of 16th street and lafeyette road? Are they tearing down that beautiful old house? Weren't they planning to build a large apartment building somewhere around there?

It looks like the bike lanes on South East Street leading into Fletcher Place have been striped. Has this been done within the past week or so?

You know, NYC doesn't seem to suffer from some of its primary dowtown streets being one-way. It's probably a necessary evil from a traffic-management point of view.

Yeah, NYC has way more pedestrian and auto traffic and narrower streets. It is a necessary evil there... not here.

Awesome cycling story in the star today
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091118/LOCAL18/911180386/Indy-bicyclist-gets-around-on-2-wheels

It looks like the bike lanes on South East Street leading into Fletcher Place have been striped. Has this been done within the past week or so?

It's at least been a couple week.. not totally finished. Some striping left on the bridge and the signage is still covered up.

http://www.theindycog.com/2009/11/east-street-bike-lanes.html

Yet again I'm probably way behind the times on this, but I think it's interesting to observe the evolution/devolution of the project at 25th and Central since the condo market went bust. It started as Lincoln Park Place, with plans for condos and first-floor retail, looking like this:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_110KgBgA9pU/SwOPXyO1RrI/AAAAAAAAA14/vre_1vO46AE/s1600/Lincoln+park+original+rendering.jpg

The result opened about two months ago, repurposed as Lincoln Park Shops, with this design:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_110KgBgA9pU/SwOPYDm4TYI/AAAAAAAAA2A/teLrdqPHigU/s1600/Lincoln+Park+Design+001+edit.jpg

And here's the reality:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_110KgBgA9pU/SwOPYRrFArI/AAAAAAAAA2I/1yZWkE0ewVk/s1600/Lincoln+Park+Design+003.jpg

I researched it a bit further, and understanding the context beyond just the poor timing of market cycles makes me a bit more sympathetic what seemed like nose-thumbing toward the Fall Creek Place neighborhood. I've covered it in a recent blog post (http://dirtamericana.blogspot.com/2009/11/does-sluggish-economy-encourage.html), but I'd love to hear other peoples impressions.

Does anyone else know more about the past and future of the 25th and Central intersection? What are your thoughts on Lincoln Park Shops?

Another unfortunate but much anticipated announcement in the Star and IBJ this morning...

http://www.ibj.com/civic-theatre-confirms-plans-to-relocate-to-carmel/PARAMS/article/11261

Civic Theatre confirms plans to relocate to Carmel
IBJ Staff
November 17, 2009

Indianapolis Civic Theatre will move from the campus of Marian University to the Regional Performing Arts Center under construction in Carmel.

IBJ.com reported Sept. 11 that the theater was contemplating the move.

On Tuesday evening, the theater and Carmel Redevelopment Commission released a joint statement confirming the decision, part of a long-term deal that calls for the Civic to pay $10 million to be the center’s primary occupant. The Carmel agency is scheduled to ratify the agreement at a meeting Wednesday.

The $80 million facility will include a 1,600-seat concert hall, 500-seat main theater and 200-seat studio theater, which Civic leaders said they could use for more intimate performances.

Construction is expected to be complete in late 2010, and the Civic will stage its 2011-2012 season there beginning in September 2011. The theater, which has 14 full-time and three part-time employees, also has plans for a new Broadway concert series and expanded educational programming.

Formally called the Booth Tarkington Civic Theatre of Indianapolis Inc., the Civic was founded in 1915 and has been located on the northwest side of the city since the 1970s. In 2004, it left Showalter Pavilion at the Indianapolis Museum of Art for Marian.

Civic’s leaders had hoped to build a theater of its own on Marian’s campus, but that plan never materialized. Instead, Civic made $2 million in improvements to the 400-seat theater in Marian Hall.

Its lease with Marian expires in June 2012. Civic leaders said they requested proposals from seven central Indiana organizations and government entities before striking the deal in Carmel.

“We are pleased that this area’s commitment to the arts continues to grow, and Civic Theatre is grateful to be a part of it,” board Chairman Pete Anderson said in a prepared statement. “Our theatre now enjoys stability and permanence.”

Carmel is getting a theater group with a $1.5 million budget and more than $524,000 in annual ticket sales.

“Welcoming an established, 95-year-old organization like Civic Theatre is a great jumping off point as we prepare for other performance groups to join us,” Performing Arts Center Executive Director Steven Libman said in a statement.

___

... understanding the context beyond just the poor timing of market cycles makes me a bit more sympathetic what seemed like nose-thumbing toward the Fall Creek Place neighborhood. I've covered it in a recent blog post (http://dirtamericana.blogspot.com/2009/11/does-sluggish-economy-encourage.html), but I'd love to hear other peoples impressions.

Does anyone else know more about the past and future of the 25th and Central intersection? What are your thoughts on Lincoln Park Shops?

Stop me if you've heard this one before: it's better than what was there before (a steel pole barn and upscale junkyard). Improvement does not need to be perfection to be acceptable.

It's also proof of the adage, "retail follows rooftops".

On Tuesday evening, the theater and Carmel Redevelopment Commission released a joint statement confirming the decision, part of a long-term deal that calls for the Civic to pay $10 million to be the center’s primary occupant. The Carmel agency is scheduled to ratify the agreement at a meeting Wednesday....

Civic’s leaders had hoped to build a theater of its own on Marian’s campus, but that plan never materialized. Instead, Civic made $2 million in improvements to the 400-seat theater in Marian Hall....

Carmel is getting a theater group with a $1.5 million budget and more than $524,000 in annual ticket sales.

Out of a $1.5 million annual budget (of which only a little more than $500,000 is covered by annual ticket sales), the Civic somehow paid for $2 million in improvements to the Marian building, and will be paying a total of $10 million to Carmel?

When I learned accounting back in the dark ages, these numbers would have been red flags.

re "Lincoln Park Shops" ---- I don't believe any major change occurred from what was there previously -- that housed the "antiques and salvageables" store. I think they just put a facade or two on some of the Central Avenue frontages and that is about all that has been done. I don't think much money has been spent on this at all. My hope is -- that this current version of the project is just an interim use of the space --- and maybe when the market recovers, they will go back to their original plan. This comment is mostly just based on my observation of the changes at that corner - and not based on any specific information from anyone that owns the property or is affilitated with the plans for that corner. Anyone that lives in the area or has any links to the developer know any more details? This space hosted the Winter Farmer's Market last year -- but that is now moving to the Chatham Arch neighborhood. Maybe they had to move out because there are other uses planned for the Lincoln Park facility (??)

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/21650899/detail.html

I just rolled my eyes so hard I'm going to need surgery to straighten them out. You've gotta love how local TV stations like to "report" on stories they themselves made up. With this type of mindset, is it any wonder Indy's public spaces are mediocre at best?

"I'm sure it will be a great addition to the city. My concern would be the timing of it," said resident Jim Ramsey, who contacted 6News to share his views on the project. "This is an outrageous project in light of our economic times."

Yep. It's a darn shame, in these tough economic times and with residential and commercial construction still slow, to use mostly private funding to put a bunch of bricklayers to work. I'm sure they would rather collect unemployment. And who the hell is Jim Ramsey, anyway. Can I call Channel 6 to complain about something and get a whole story dedicated to my opinions, or must I continue to say my piece on message boards and blogs?

Does anyone know what is going on at the corner of 16th street and lafeyette road? Are they tearing down that beautiful old house? Weren't they planning to build a large apartment building somewhere around there?

I'm not sure.
I hope they are not tearing it down though.:ohno:

I just hope the cultural trail really does spur new development. It would be nice to see downtown at least fill up with 5-6 sotry midrises. I've noticed lately how many suburban banks, gas stations, and fast-food places are within the downtown interstate loop.

I've also just discovered some of the side streets within the old northside and all I have to say is "wow." That neighborhood reminds me of something in a much larger city that I never would have expected in Indy. I always thought our housing stock was pretty lousy.

Does anyone know what is going on at the corner of 16th street and lafeyette road? Are they tearing down that beautiful old house? Weren't they planning to build a large apartment building somewhere around there?

Yup, some Carmel schmo is building apartments there. Keepin' 'em ugly and cheap in the inner city to pay for his white mecca up north.

I have no love for Carmel today.

that report on channel 6 about the cultural trail was such bullshit.. talk about misinforming and fueling the nay-sayers.. complete with interviewing a total ignorant party! blah!

also, they are wheeling pallets of liquor into the old quiznos on Delaware & Ohio.. looks like community spirits is moving forward.

re "Lincoln Park Shops" ---- I don't believe any major change occurred from what was there previously -- that housed the "antiques and salvageables" store. I think they just put a facade or two on some of the Central Avenue frontages and that is about all that has been done. I don't think much money has been spent on this at all. My hope is -- that this current version of the project is just an interim use of the space --- and maybe when the market recovers, they will go back to their original plan. This comment is mostly just based on my observation of the changes at that corner - and not based on any specific information from anyone that owns the property or is affilitated with the plans for that corner. Anyone that lives in the area or has any links to the developer know any more details? This space hosted the Winter Farmer's Market last year -- but that is now moving to the Chatham Arch neighborhood. Maybe they had to move out because there are other uses planned for the Lincoln Park facility (??)

You can read the article on my blog. I talked to the developer. The site will be this way for the foreseeable future because he's secured several tenants. It will probably be a good decade before it changes.

In further news, the ULI has reported the results of its findings on Real Estate Trends in Indiana. The city's investments and development prospects are rated "moderately poor" to "poor"--which, bad though it may seem, is better than many cities and on par with Nashville and Chicago.

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?id=38798

that report on channel 6 about the cultural trail was such bullshit.. talk about misinforming and fueling the nay-sayers.. complete with interviewing a total ignorant party! blah!

also, they are wheeling pallets of liquor into the old quiznos on Delaware & Ohio.. looks like community spirits is moving forward.

I couldnt read that article without a souring expression spreading across my face. At least they did their research and turned up that most of the funding isnt putting tax payers out any more for this project specifically.

There was a similarly ignorant comment on indystar yesterday on the article talking about how the Indygo Carmel and Fishers routes changing. The ignorance blows my mind. If you are going to spout off, at least claim ignorance. That is at least admirable in that people dont mind correcting you but a cras comment levelled when you dont know what you are talking about... have some integrity

I couldnt read that article without a souring expression spreading across my face. At least they did their research and turned up that most of the funding isnt putting tax payers out any more for this project specifically.

There was a similarly ignorant comment on indystar yesterday on the article talking about how the Indygo Carmel and Fishers routes changing. The ignorance blows my mind. If you are going to spout off, at least claim ignorance. That is at least admirable in that people dont mind correcting you but a cras comment levelled when you dont know what you are talking about... have some integrity

The actual news segment TV was seriously fucked up. It was one of those "Are You Kidding Me?!?" segments.

It makes me wonder what the people at the news station were trying to accomplish. If they really wanted to bring up an issue, why not interview someone on why its taking so damn long to finish the mass ave area that looks like a WW1 entrenchment...

It makes me wonder what the people at the news station were trying to accomplish. If they really wanted to bring up an issue, why not interview someone on why its taking so damn long to finish the mass ave area that looks like a WW1 entrenchment...

There has been a fair amount of movement at mass ave and college in the last few weeks, and the 10th street connection is about finished. I agree though! Get it all done now!

Plain and simple, Indy did not show the love to the Civic Theater it deserved. I haven't been to a show there since their exit from the IMA. Wandering from venue to venue as an interloper must be getting old. I'm sure they are viewed as the anchor tenant at the Carmel theater. In my view, Carmel didn't steal the Civic, Indy lost it. Actually, it lost it a while back and Carmel just now got around to signing a free agent to the team as it were.

In the IBJ today:


Speedway officials broke ground Thursday morning on the first phase of a $500 million redevelopment project they hope will transform the small town into a year-round racing-themed destination.

Initial work involves $6.7 million in road improvements to Main Street that should be finished by May 2011, laying the foundation for redevelopment to follow.

Though completion is roughly 18 months away, the project is generating interest from dozens of prospects who could locate along the aging thoroughfare plagued by vacant buildings and deteriorating façades.

Indianapolis-based Mansur Real Estate Services and Greenstreet Ltd., the master developers in charge of identifying tenants, said they’ve fielded calls from about 40 businesses, including restaurants, retailers, and motorsports companies.

“I think people get it,” Mansur President Chuck Caagan said. “They understand how this type of program could be a major draw.”

Dubbed the “Speed Zone,” the entire plan calls for new roads, parks, retail, restaurants and entertainment attractions to spruce up the Main Street business district and surrounding neighborhoods.

The ambitious redevelopment includes more than 350 acres from Main Street to Holt Road and from 16th to 10th streets, just south of Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

In all, 2.5 million square feet of new development could be constructed, which could return a 10-year economic impact of up to $5.2 billion and more than 2,000 jobs, officials say.

Work on the project began in July 2005, when town officials created the Speedway Redevelopment Commission to begin drafting a master plan for the redevelopment.

Scott Harris, executive director of the commission, is confident the redevelopment will come together as planned.

“It’s obviously picked up a lot of momentum, because we’re actually doing something,” he said. “It’s going to recreate what was a very historic Main Street.”

In the 1950s and '60s, the seven-block Main Street served as the vibrant center of town, with a grocery store, two barbershops, a pharmacy and a cinema. But as factory work shifted and new shopping centers opened across town, Main Street suffered.

The Speed Zone project calls for widening Main Street, building an interactive “racing wall of fame” in front of the Praxair Surface Technologies plant that lines the east side of the thoroughfare, and adding mixed-use retail and condominium space on both sides of the street.

Area manufacturers such as Praxair and Allison Transmission employ about 3,500, which makes the area attractive to retailers as well, said Jeff Kingsbury, managing principal of the Greenstreet real estate development firm.

“Given the state of the economy and the overall real estate market, I think the level of interest we’ve had so far is really encouraging,” he said. “But I think it also points to the fact that we’ve got some exceptional assets to build upon.”

As part of the project, Allison and the Speedway Redevelopment Commission are seeking the closure of a 1,354-foot section of Grand Avenue, just south of West 10th Street.

Another part of the 10-year project includes rerouting 16th Street south, away from the track to create a pedestrian zone near the racetrack.

Planners also want to close Georgetown Road south of 25th Street to create a park and pedestrian promenade beside the track. Traffic would be diverted to Lynhurst Drive.

Two multi-lane roundabouts are planned—one at the junction of Crawfordsville Road, 16th Street and Main Street, and one where an extended Holt Road would cross the new 16th Street.

The town will pay for the proposed infrastructure changes and the Main Street façade and streetscape enhancements through a series of bonds paid off by revenue from the town’s 350-acre tax increment financing district. The rest of the funding will come from public-private sources, planners said.

The improvements to Main Street should be finished by May 2011, in time for the Indianapolis 500’s centennial celebration.

Whitestown-based Calumet Civil Contractors Inc. is the contractor for the Main Street road improvements.

It makes me wonder what the people at the news station were trying to accomplish. If they really wanted to bring up an issue, why not interview someone on why its taking so damn long to finish the mass ave area that looks like a WW1 entrenchment...

I guess that doesn't get people fired up like this does:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_GrZ3dUNj4dQ/SXBNKSRtgZI/AAAAAAAAAaU/Zy-fVmDG1nI/s400/grinds-my-gears1.jpg

I have been watching the JW go up all year on the jwindy.com website looking at the construction web cam and I was actually in Indy this last weekend to attend the bands of america grand national championships. I went around the building and got some pictures of it close up. The top floor seems to be different that what the original pictures showed when it was approved.

In building it they would start at the far right of the building putting in the columns and them move right to left to the other end. This time over the past couple weeks they built the top floor moving in one column line in and finished on the left side the same going from right to left. So now the building looks like it will have a cap on the top of it instead of being flat all the way across it.

Has anyone else noticed this? It was on the news that they had already topped off the building.

I have been watching the JW go up all year on the jwindy.com website looking at the construction web cam and I was actually in Indy this last weekend to attend the bands of america grand national championships. I went around the building and got some pictures of it close up. The top floor seems to be different that what the original pictures showed when it was approved.

In building it they would start at the far right of the building putting in the columns and them move right to left to the other end. This time over the past couple weeks they built the top floor moving in one column line in and finished on the left side the same going from right to left. So now the building looks like it will have a cap on the top of it instead of being flat all the way across it.

Has anyone else noticed this? It was on the news that they had already topped off the building.

And I dunno about you but, I quite like the cap on it. It's a nice touch. Hopefully it stays! :)

Nope, not a cap. According to SMSC1, "Someone asked about the set back. That fills in with steel to support the curtainwall. The structural set back will not be visible in the completed exterior." http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=524233&page=41

This is from April, 2009 but I still found it interesting. Especially news about future phases of Riley hospital.

Development Diversity Ensures Thriving Northwest Indianapolis

By Steve Kaelble

Even in a good economy, diversity in business and development is viewed as highly desirable insurance against the potential for trouble in one sector, a major employer or the economy.


The Madame Walker Theatre Center, which originally opened in 1927 in Indianapolis’ Northwest Quadrant, is undergoing a $10-million renovation. (Photo courtesy of Indianapolis Downtown Inc.)
That has proven true in the Northwest Quadrant of downtown Indianapolis, which has seen hundreds of millions of dollars in development in recent years across a wide range of sectors, including the life sciences, education, culture and residential uses.

The area, which is crossed by the downtown canal and includes a major college campus (Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis), hasn’t been completely untouched by the current economic troubles, but the area’s news has mainly been positive.

“The area around the canal used to be industrial,” says Bob Wilch, principal planner with the Indianapolis Department of Metropolitan Development’s Division of Planning. “It was warehouses. I don’t think there was any residential. Now, it’s a mixed-used area with a lot of residential.”

More Activity Planned

More development is on the way, adds Terry Sweeney, vice president for real estate development with Indianapolis Downtown Inc., a nonprofit promoting the city.

“The Cosmopolitan, a development on the canal with 216 apartments and 25,000 sq ft of retail, is due to be completed this year,” he says.

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Joining that $37-million project is Canal Gardens, a $9-million grouping of more than 30 townhomes; Meridian Arch, a $17-million development that’s putting residential properties into a historic church along with new construction; and about $40-million worth of student housing near the IUPUI campus.

All of the work has contributed to good news about construction starts for multiunit residential in Indianapolis in 2008, which fell only 3%, to $234 million, compared with the previous year, according to data from McGraw-Hill Construction, publisher of Midwest Construction(The figure represents the entire metropolitan area, not just the Northwest Quadrant.)

Meanwhile, Chicago’s multiunit residential starts fell 70% last year and St. Louis’ dropped 81%.

Wilch says he worked on downtown master plans in 1980 and 1990, and while residential growth was always the dream, it finally started to take shape after the 1994 opening of the downtown Circle Centre mall.

“People started to see downtown as a place they could live,” he adds.

He says the canal area in the Northwest Quadrant is ideal because of its proximity to the central downtown core as well as the IUPUI campus. The area has plenty of room to grow and no traffic problems or other significant planning issues, Wilch says.

Current cultural/educational development in the Northwest Quadrant includes the $15-million renovation of Crispus Attucks High School into a medical magnet school and museum spotlighting prominent alumni of what was the state’s first all-African American high school.

The Children’s Museum of Indianapolis is working on a $15-million addition; the Indianapolis Museum of Art is pumping nearly $10 million into an art and nature park; the Madame Walker Theatre Center, which originally opened in 1927, is undergoing a $10-million renovation; and the $55-million Indianapolis Cultural Trail includes a leg linking the up-and-coming Northwest Quadrant to the already booming Massachusetts Avenue cultural district.

On the periphery of the Northwest Quadrant is a massive hotel project, a $425-million, 1,600-room, seven-acre complex that will include a thousand-room luxury JW Marriott and three smaller properties bearing other Marriott brands.

Life Sciences’ Life Blood

The area’s most prominent economic anchor is the life sciences.

The northwest neighborhood includes the Indiana University School of Medicine and medical center, the headquarters and three downtown hospitals of Clarian Health Partners, a host of research activity, business incubators housing fledgling companies, a state forensics laboratory and Clarian’s centralized medical lab. There’s also a monorail that glides through the Northwest Quadrant linking much of the life sciences activity.

Current and recent projects include:

The $154-million IU Simon Cancer Center that opened last year.
$52-million educational facility serving both IU and Clarian.
$80-million IU School of Medicine research building.
$27-million renovation at the Richard L. Roudebush Indianapolis VA Medical Center.
$266-million bed tower expansion at Riley Hospital for Children.
“It’s a pretty healthy life sciences pipeline,” IDI’s Sweeney says.

Still, even the life sciences are not immune to current economic woes. In fact, the Northwest Quadrant’s biggest project, the Riley Hospital bed tower, is now feeling some of the impact.

“What Clarian has elected to do is slow down completion of the first phase of the project, which was slated for this summer,” says Bill McCarthy, president of contractor Pepper Construction of Indiana. “There are future phases and they’re trying to get those closer together.”

The move conserves precious 2009 dollars, but McCarthy adds that “it doesn’t significantly affect our work.” Progress has slowed for the time being but exterior construction is ongoing. “It’s a fairly complicated project,” McCarthy says.

Stumbled across this interesting study on the MPO website this morning.

This Binford Village Study
http://www.indympo.org/MultiModalPlanning/Pages/BinfordVillageStudy.aspx

This is funny:


anybody lives in Indianapolis? (http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2230019&tstart=1)

Why am I not surprised to see a resident of connecticut making a comment like that?? Go make a BIC or something dickhead

Yet again I'm probably way behind the times on this, but I think it's interesting to observe the evolution/devolution of the project at 25th and Central since the condo market went bust. It started as Lincoln Park Place, with plans for condos and first-floor retail, looking like this:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_110KgBgA9pU/SwOPXyO1RrI/AAAAAAAAA14/vre_1vO46AE/s1600/Lincoln+park+original+rendering.jpg

The result opened about two months ago, repurposed as Lincoln Park Shops, with this design:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_110KgBgA9pU/SwOPYDm4TYI/AAAAAAAAA2A/teLrdqPHigU/s1600/Lincoln+Park+Design+001+edit.jpg

And here's the reality:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_110KgBgA9pU/SwOPYRrFArI/AAAAAAAAA2I/1yZWkE0ewVk/s1600/Lincoln+Park+Design+003.jpg

I researched it a bit further, and understanding the context beyond just the poor timing of market cycles makes me a bit more sympathetic what seemed like nose-thumbing toward the Fall Creek Place neighborhood. I've covered it in a recent blog post (http://dirtamericana.blogspot.com/2009/11/does-sluggish-economy-encourage.html), but I'd love to hear other peoples impressions.

Does anyone else know more about the past and future of the 25th and Central intersection? What are your thoughts on Lincoln Park Shops?


LOL. It's funny how often you'll see these "urban infill" projects turn into another "strip mall".;)

Why am I not surprised to see a resident of connecticut making a comment like that?? Go make a BIC or something dickhead

Funny

They're catching up...or passing us:

Mayor and Council announce MAPS proposal
Initiative includes eight projects to create jobs and improve quality of life
Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett and members of the Oklahoma City Council announced plans for a MAPS proposal that is to be considered by the citizens of Oklahoma City on December 8.

The ordinance calling for the election was introduced at the September 22nd City Council meeting.

The initiative proposes a diverse list of eight projects:


A new, approximately 70-acre central park linking the core of downtown with the Oklahoma River
A new rail-based streetcar system, plus potential funding for other rail transit initiatives, such as commuter lines and a transit hub
A new downtown convention center
Sidewalks to be placed on major streets and near facilities used by the public throughout the City
57 miles of new public bicycling and walking trails throughout the City
Improvements to the Oklahoma River, including a public whitewater kayaking facility and upgrades intended to achieve the finest rowing racecourse in the world
State-of-the-art health and wellness aquatic centers throughout the City designed for senior citizens
Improvements to the Oklahoma State Fairgrounds

“This proposal dreams big, and it continues the momentum and renaissance of the last 15 years,” said Mayor Cornett. “I believe it will achieve the goals that have always defined MAPS projects – creating jobs and improving our quality of life. I think it recognizes the needs of the world-class city we are becoming, and I think it will capture our imaginations. If this initiative moves forward, the next 10 years of this City’s history will be more exciting than the last 10. We have hardly scratched the surface of what this City is capable.”

The MAPS proposal calls for a seven-year, nine-month one-cent sales tax that will maintain the Oklahoma City sales tax rate where it currently stands. Oklahoma City’s sales tax rate is one of the lowest of all municipalities in central Oklahoma. If approved, the collection of the sales tax will commence on April 1, 2010, the day after the conclusion of the sports facilities sales tax collection that voters approved in March, 2008. The MAPS for Kids sales tax collection lasted seven years.

The estimated total cost of the initiative is $777 million. That total cost includes $17 million in contingency funds.

See more here (http://www.okc.gov/maps3/maps_info_sheet_low_res.pdf)

They're catching up...or passing us:

Listen to Abdul's most recent interview with Mayor Ballard. I think we'll be hearing some big transit-related announcements sooner than later as well.

Was thinking more about the Civic Theater. As you probably know, the ISO has big financial challenges. Carmel has a brand new concert hall. I had previously discounted the idea of the ISO moving there. But if Carmel gave them the use of the concert hall for token rent plus threw in some free office space in the City Center complex it would have to look very attractive to them. I'd rate this a higher possibility if the ISO didn't own the Circle Theater and their HQ building, but if they figured out how to dump them, a sweetheart deal in Carmel would have to look very financially attractive. The Civic Theater is paying almost nothing in rent.

Another thought, this time on the Cultural Trail and the WRTV report that has people riled up. I think there are some interesting financing questions. The budget is $55 million. $15 million is from fed grants (mostly TEA I believe) and another $15 million is from the Glicks. That's over half the budget. There's $13 million to fill, meaning that really the Cultural Trail has only raised $12 million from the community at large for what is really a fairly major asset and one that seems to be very popular. I'm guessing here, but CICF had to have chipped in a bit of that too. It does make me wonder a bit whether the trail is more popular with people like us than the city's elite. And where is the Lilly Endowment?

Was thinking more about the Civic Theater. As you probably know, the ISO has big financial challenges. Carmel has a brand new concert hall. I had previously discounted the idea of the ISO moving there. But if Carmel gave them the use of the concert hall for token rent plus threw in some free office space in the City Center complex it would have to look very attractive to them. I'd rate this a higher possibility if the ISO didn't own the Circle Theater and their HQ building, but if they figured out how to dump them, a sweetheart deal in Carmel would have to look very financially attractive. The Civic Theater is paying almost nothing in rent.

These comments at IBJ may help:

http://www.ibj.com/lou-harrys-ae/2009/11/17/indy-civic-moving-to-carmel/PARAMS/post/11262

HarveyFNovember 19, 2009 11:25 AM
It is interesting that Mr. Rollin Dick, formerly of Conseco, is the chairman of the Carmel Performing Arts Center's foundation and Cheryl L. Lynn Dick is the Executive Director of the Civic Theater. Are these folks related? While I'm in favor of the Civic Theater moving to Carmel's PAC, it sure looks like Carmel's government, once again, threw open the checkbook.

TrickyDickNovember 19, 2009 12:55 PM
Yes Cheryl Lynn Dick and Rollin Dick (former head of Conseco that was indicted by the SEC and can still not be on the board of a publically traded company) are related. They are in fact married. Also, the attourney for the Redevelopment Commission, Karl Haas is dating Holly Stults who is a full time employee of Civic. Sounds like nepitism to me.

pic I took this am at Crown Hill:

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs069.snc3/13667_1263464356416_1523967601_728634_4023106_n.jpg

pic I took this am at Crown Hill:

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs069.snc3/13667_1263464356416_1523967601_728634_4023106_n.jpg

The stadium and JWMarriott really stretch the skyline west. Once IUPUI builds some taller infill between the hospitals and West St., downtown will look pretty impressive from a distance.

Another thought, this time on the Cultural Trail and the WRTV report that has people riled up. I think there are some interesting financing questions. The budget is $55 million. $15 million is from fed grants (mostly TEA I believe) and another $15 million is from the Glicks. That's over half the budget. There's $13 million to fill, meaning that really the Cultural Trail has only raised $12 million from the community at large for what is really a fairly major asset and one that seems to be very popular. I'm guessing here, but CICF had to have chipped in a bit of that too. It does make me wonder a bit whether the trail is more popular with people like us than the city's elite. And where is the Lilly Endowment?

I remember when they broke ground for the first phase that they also announced that Lilly or the Lilly Endowment donated $1mil toward the trail and a small part of the Virginia avenue route would go toward the Lilly campus to include them. I think it was around New Jersey St. where they made a little adjustment to the Virginia Ave. route to accommodate part of Lilly.

I remember when they broke ground for the first phase that they also announced that Lilly or the Lilly Endowment donated $1mil toward the trail and a small part of the Virginia avenue route would go toward the Lilly campus to include them. I think it was around New Jersey St. where they made a little adjustment to the Virginia Ave. route to accommodate part of Lilly.

That was Eli Lilly the company, not the Endowment, which is separate.

Stumbled across this interesting study on the MPO website this morning.

This Binford Village Study
http://www.indympo.org/MultiModalPlanning/Pages/BinfordVillageStudy.aspx

IM-PLE-MEN-TA-TION-?

IM-PLE-MEN-TA-TION-?

A-men.

As long as "transportation planning" and "transportation construction" have separate structures and separate budgets, no one's actually responsible.

Hence, years (decades?) of transit STUDIES and no actual transit. If I were the transportation planners, I'd be very frustrated. The ones I've met get it and I think they honestly want to see something happen. But leadership is required. Until the mayor is fully on board (pun intended), nothing moves.

Why am I not surprised to see a resident of connecticut making a comment like that?? Go make a BIC or something dickhead

Way more people live in Indy than Milford CT, which has a population near 50,000 people...

There is a warehouse at the corner of McCarty St. and Kentucky Ave. that I drove past today, and around back there is exposed steel frame and piles of rubble. It looks like they may be tearing this down. I can't imagine why it would be demolished. Also, the new apartments on 10th street across from the community center look nice.

I also got into an argument today with someone about whether or not there should be high-rise buildings mixed in with the existing neighborhoods just outside of downtown. That was interesting to say the least. I told him that neighborhoods with all single-family homes are what neighborhoods like Fishers are for, and that the whole point of a healthy urban core is density and growth, not decreasing density. You all have taught me so much over the past few years.

^^ Highrises in neighborhoods that are historically singles and doubles? Probably a bad idea on multiple levels. That's taking increased density to an extreme, though in moderation it would be a good thing.

There's a big gap between "low density single family homes" and "high rise". I think there's plenty of room to increase density in selected areas. For example, the west bank of the White River near downtown would be a great place for midrise apartments, with the great skyline views.

There's a big gap between "low density single family homes" and "high rise". I think there's plenty of room to increase density in selected areas. For example, the west bank of the White River near downtown would be a great place for midrise apartments, with the great skyline views.

I'm in love with this idea. The near west side needs all the help it can get.. Developing around the river seems to be ideal to connect it more to downtown.

Hey Ben, you know Chris Castle? He plays guitar in my band. We practice at my place in So. Broad Ripple. He mentioned you were going to be moving into that hood sometime soon. We live on Ralston in the 49thth street area. He mentioned you'd be just down the street from me. Small world

Hey Ben, you know Chris Castle? He plays guitar in my band. We practice at my place in So. Broad Ripple. He mentioned you were going to be moving into that hood sometime soon. We live on Ralston in the 49thth street area. He mentioned you'd be just down the street from me. Small world

Yeah I know Castle, we did some volunteer work together a couple spring ago. Good dude. That's actually the other half of INDYCOG that he was talking about. He's lived in that area for a few months.

I live in Fountain Sq for the foreseeable future, however I do work up at the 52nd st. Luna.

Random question, but I took this picture awhile ago (somewhere on the near Southside), can anyone tell me where this is? I cannot remember where I took it:

http://i45.tinypic.com/se2hsh.jpg

That's in the Sacred Heart Neighborhood...Palmer Street and Union. Looks like it's been fixed up since my last venture in the 'hood. Nice.

Is that the place that used to have "Christian Grocery" or something like that on the sign? If so, I guess God no longer favors them, and they're just a plain old secular grocery now.

yeah, that is right by the vollrath... i think...

There is a crappy one-story suburban building being built at 22nd and Meridian. However, it is being built right up to the sidewalk. I'm not sure what it is though. I guess it is better than an empty lot in that area and will go on the tax rolls.

Sadly, that's also the area where a VP clerk was robbed and murdered yesterday, just a few blocks away, at Meridian and Arizona.

There's a big gap between "low density single family homes" and "high rise". I think there's plenty of room to increase density in selected areas. For example, the west bank of the White River near downtown would be a great place for midrise apartments, with the great skyline views.

What exactly is the height limit for high rise vs. midrise?

Patachou owner's pizzeria receives variance approval
Scott Olson
November 24, 2009

http://www.ibj.com/patachou-owners-pizzeria-receives-variance-approval-/PARAMS/article/11419

Cafe Patachou owner Martha Hoover can now move forward with plans to open a pizzeria next to her trademark eatery at 49th and Pennsylvania streets in Indianapolis.

The Board of Zoning Appeals voted 5-0 Tuesday afternoon to grant variances critical to Hoover’s new venture, called Napolese, that should be open by early February.

Hoover needed the variances to include an outdoor seating area for her pizzeria and because the plans include fewer on-site parking spaces than typically required.

“Without the variances being approved, it would have been very devastating to our business and the corner,” Hoover told IBJ. “That corner needs a lot of infusion right now.”

Hoover is leasing 1,200 square feet next to her original Cafe Patachou restaurant from the new owners of the Hamaker Building. The local investors, led by Bryan Chandler of Eclipse Real Estate and Greg Rankin and John Bales of Venture Cos., paid $1.5 million in December for the 12,000-square-foot building.

The group bought the building from Judith C. Kaczmarski and her husband, George, who owned the former Hamaker Pharmacy.

About 75 supporters backing Hoover and sporting Patachou stickers across their chests erupted in applause after the board approved the variances.

A handful of opponents, however, voiced reservations that the pizzeria and outdoor seating area would lead to increased traffic in the neighborhood, posing safety concerns.

They said they do not oppose redevelopment in the area, as long as adequate parking is available, said Clark Kahlo, who lives about four blocks from the project.

“This is a size 10 foot trying to get into a size 8 shoe,” he said in remarks at the hearing. “This parking is a big deal. If you go there at any time of the day, it’s busy.”

But the city’s Division of Planning, which recommended approving the variances, said parking concerns likely would be alleviated by neighborhood residents walking or biking to the restaurant. Bicycle racks will be placed in the area to encourage that practice.

“Something like this is an urban planner’s dream, because it provides a number of amenities that people can walk to, bike to and drive to,” said Cameron Clark, an attorney representing Hoover and Chandler.

Napolese will feature traditional, Neapolitan-style pizza. Neapolitan-style pizza originated in Naples, Italy, and is distinguishable from other types by its bread-like crust and unique texture.

Hoover faces one more obstacle in her plans for Napolese. The Indiana Alcohol & Tobacco Commission is scheduled to hear her request Dec. 7 for a license to sell beer and wine. Hoover said she expects the same opponents who campaigned against the variances to challenge the alcohol license as well.

Hoover’s Napolese would be the second restaurant she's opened within a year. In March, she launched her second French-themed Petite Chou, at the upscale Clay Terrace shopping center in Carmel. The other is on Westfield Boulevard in Broad Ripple.

Hoover opened her first Cafe Patachou—at 49th and Pennsylvania streets—20 years ago. She has since opened four others: in Simon Property Group’s downtown headquarters, at the Indianapolis International Airport’s civic plaza, at River Crossing near 86th and Keystone Avenue, and at 126th Street and Gray Road in Carmel.

American Dirt: "Sadly, that's also the area where a VP clerk was robbed and murdered yesterday, just a few blocks away, at Meridian and Arizona."

No its not. 22nd and Meridian is on the NORTH side of downtown - a little more than two miles north of Monument Circle. Meridian and Arizona is on the south side of downtown -- a good mile and a half south of Monument Circle. Those two areas are at least 3 1/2 miles apart.

American Dirt: "Sadly, that's also the area where a VP clerk was robbed and murdered yesterday, just a few blocks away, at Meridian and Arizona."

No its not. 22nd and Meridian is on the NORTH side of downtown - a little more than two miles north of Monument Circle. Meridian and Arizona is on the south side of downtown -- a good mile and a half south of Monument Circle. Those two areas are at least 3 1/2 miles apart.

I was referring to the post demonstrated by the photo. If you'll see the time frame of the messages, Sunday Bloody Sundae beat me with his/her message just 30 seconds before I sent mine (while I was typing), so the posting chronology is out of sequence. The photo in Sacred Heart is just a few blocks from Meridian and Arizona.

There is a crappy one-story suburban building being built at 22nd and Meridian. However, it is being built right up to the sidewalk. I'm not sure what it is though. I guess it is better than an empty lot in that area and will go on the tax rolls.

Saw that a couple of weeks ago and wondered what it was. It looked like a car wash at that point in time

That's in the Sacred Heart Neighborhood...Palmer Street and Union. Looks like it's been fixed up since my last venture in the 'hood. Nice.
Thanks!

Patachou owner's pizzeria receives variance approval
Scott Olson
November 24, 2009

http://www.ibj.com/patachou-owners-pizzeria-receives-variance-approval-/PARAMS/article/11419

Cafe Patachou owner Martha Hoover can now move forward with plans to open a pizzeria next to her trademark eatery at 49th and Pennsylvania streets in Indianapolis.

The Board of Zoning Appeals voted 5-0 Tuesday afternoon to grant variances critical to Hoover’s new venture, called Napolese, that should be open by early February.

Hoover needed the variances to include an outdoor seating area for her pizzeria and because the plans include fewer on-site parking spaces than typically required.

“Without the variances being approved, it would have been very devastating to our business and the corner,” Hoover told IBJ. “That corner needs a lot of infusion right now.”

Hoover is leasing 1,200 square feet next to her original Cafe Patachou restaurant from the new owners of the Hamaker Building. The local investors, led by Bryan Chandler of Eclipse Real Estate and Greg Rankin and John Bales of Venture Cos., paid $1.5 million in December for the 12,000-square-foot building.

The group bought the building from Judith C. Kaczmarski and her husband, George, who owned the former Hamaker Pharmacy.

About 75 supporters backing Hoover and sporting Patachou stickers across their chests erupted in applause after the board approved the variances.

A handful of opponents, however, voiced reservations that the pizzeria and outdoor seating area would lead to increased traffic in the neighborhood, posing safety concerns.

They said they do not oppose redevelopment in the area, as long as adequate parking is available, said Clark Kahlo, who lives about four blocks from the project.

“This is a size 10 foot trying to get into a size 8 shoe,” he said in remarks at the hearing. “This parking is a big deal. If you go there at any time of the day, it’s busy.”

But the city’s Division of Planning, which recommended approving the variances, said parking concerns likely would be alleviated by neighborhood residents walking or biking to the restaurant. Bicycle racks will be placed in the area to encourage that practice.

“Something like this is an urban planner’s dream, because it provides a number of amenities that people can walk to, bike to and drive to,” said Cameron Clark, an attorney representing Hoover and Chandler.

Napolese will feature traditional, Neapolitan-style pizza. Neapolitan-style pizza originated in Naples, Italy, and is distinguishable from other types by its bread-like crust and unique texture.

Hoover faces one more obstacle in her plans for Napolese. The Indiana Alcohol & Tobacco Commission is scheduled to hear her request Dec. 7 for a license to sell beer and wine. Hoover said she expects the same opponents who campaigned against the variances to challenge the alcohol license as well.

Hoover’s Napolese would be the second restaurant she's opened within a year. In March, she launched her second French-themed Petite Chou, at the upscale Clay Terrace shopping center in Carmel. The other is on Westfield Boulevard in Broad Ripple.

Hoover opened her first Cafe Patachou—at 49th and Pennsylvania streets—20 years ago. She has since opened four others: in Simon Property Group’s downtown headquarters, at the Indianapolis International Airport’s civic plaza, at River Crossing near 86th and Keystone Avenue, and at 126th Street and Gray Road in Carmel.

Hooray!!! Thanks for sharing! Down with the northside NIMBY's!

What exactly is the height limit for high rise vs. midrise?

I don't think there is a clear b&w cut off between a mid rise and a high rise. Emporis (a corp that tracks high rise dev) defines the cutoff for a high rise as either 12 stories or 120 feet in height to the roof. I believe a mid rise would probably be defined as a building between 5 and 11 stories in height. This type of building does little for a skyline but can increase densities dramatically.

My thought for the White River frontage was 4-8 stories.

American Dirt: Got it. Yeah, I see now how your note came in within the minute after the 22nd and Meridian item was typed -- and I understand how your comment was correct re the geography of the little grocery being in the vicinity of the VP.

Here's a link to another story on Fountain Square development. Much of it is just regular PR talk about existing restaurants, clubs, etc. -- but it does mention at least one new thing I hadn't heard before --- a new live music venue called La Revolucion that is being planned to open sometime next year. It will be owned by the same guy who owns and runs Radio Radio. It is supposed to be a mixed restaurant / music facility - and will be larger than Radio Radio. It also talks about the new pub - Red Lion Grog House; the new White Rabbit Cabaret; and the new temporary IMOCA exhibit -- all of which will be opening soon. Things are definitely rolling along pretty well in Fountain Square.

http://m.indy.com/posts/new-life-for-fountain-square-neighborhood

The Soldiers and Sailors Monument is now open. Not sure if the museum downstairs was redone.

I had posted this on the JW thread but thought I would ask here on this thread as well on an observation to see if anyone knows the status of the JW pedestrian bridge to the park....

I have a question: In studying the original sight plan "the one with the different colored footprints of the buildings", it shows a pedestrian bridge "in dashed lines" going from the plaza area in front of the new Fairfield Inn curing over Washington Street and coming down in the park about a hundred feet or so into it. I had seen a news clip on this early in the year and the White River Park director was talking about it and how exciting it was that they were going to build this bridge into the park as a true link to the park itself from the hotel.
Now in studying the plaza pictures of how it is supposed to look when completed, one of the pictures in particular shows this large red swooping sculpture. Now if you look at the site plan for the pedestrian bridge and study where that sculpture is, it looks like the bridge is now NOT part of the overall plan. Does anyone know about this pedestrian bridge and if it is still planned?

I had posted this on the JW thread but thought I would ask here on this thread as well on an observation to see if anyone knows the status of the JW pedestrian bridge to the park....

I have a question: In studying the original sight plan "the one with the different colored footprints of the buildings", it shows a pedestrian bridge "in dashed lines" going from the plaza area in front of the new Fairfield Inn curing over Washington Street and coming down in the park about a hundred feet or so into it. I had seen a news clip on this early in the year and the White River Park director was talking about it and how exciting it was that they were going to build this bridge into the park as a true link to the park itself from the hotel.
Now in studying the plaza pictures of how it is supposed to look when completed, one of the pictures in particular shows this large red swooping sculpture. Now if you look at the site plan for the pedestrian bridge and study where that sculpture is, it looks like the bridge is now NOT part of the overall plan. Does anyone know about this pedestrian bridge and if it is still planned?
Someone (I think ablerock) posted a while back that the bridge was cancelled. Early on, I think there were design complications between the arc of the bridge necessary for ADA compliance and the height necessary for truck clearance. In the end, though, I think it was simply a budget casualty.

The Uptown may not be under construction, but at least they are fixing up the line of stores across the street from it. Snapped this last night

http://www.hustonstreetracing.com/gallery2/images/49th_1.jpg

The Uptown may not be under construction, but at least they are fixing up the line of stores across the street from it. Snapped this last night

Yeah, Greg Hardesty (ELEMENTS) is putting in a restaurant called Recess! Get ready because it is going to be great!

Hopefully Uptown can pull together its final financial hurdle and get moving again soon.

Downtown life sciences corridor flagged for development
IBJ StaffNovember 28, 2009

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SxU7YWj6ImI/AAAAAAAAD_4/YMO6aUY10m4/otb-government.gif

A new task force is charged with making recommendations for development of the city’s downtown certified technology park.

The Indianapolis Downtown Certified Technology Park Task Force convenes next month. It will evaluate optimal use of a corridor that’s long been targeted for life sciences businesses and facilities.

The corridor, bounded by 16th Street on the north, Fall Creek on the east and south, and White River on the west, was designated a certified technology park by the Indiana Economic Development Corp. in 2003, allowing collection of taxes generated inside its boundaries for reinvestment inside the park. It was named a life sciences district in 2004 under Indianapolis’ 2020 Regional Center Plan.

The eight-member task force is chaired by BioCrossroads Vice President Anne Shane. It also includes Indianapolis Economic Development Inc. CEO Scott Miller; his colleague, IEDI Life Sciences Director Nancy Langdon; Dorothy Jones, a member of the Metropolitan Development Commission; Riverside Civic League President Peggy Gamlin; Clarian Health Senior Vice President of Engagement and External Affairs Ron Stiver; Indiana University Office of Engagement Executive Director David Gard; and Deputy Mayor for Economic and Workforce Development Nick Weber.

“This is a concrete step forward as we look to determine what opportunities are out there for this specific cluster area,” Weber said in a statement. “Much has been done in terms of evaluating the possible, but now we are working to take action on these opportunities and make development in this area a reality.”

Yeah, Greg Hardesty (ELEMENTS) is putting in a restaurant called Recess! Get ready because it is going to be great!

Hopefully Uptown can pull together its final financial hurdle and get moving again soon.


Thanks for the update! I didnt know. I was in a hurry and probably missed the proper signage haha

Thanks for the update! I didnt know. I was in a hurry and probably missed the proper signage haha



I don't know if there is a sign. This is actually the restaurant that Gabe was getting ready to transition to from Goose (maybe still with Goose partially?). There will also be a few people from the staff of Elements.

Where is the Uptown?

Downtown life sciences corridor flagged for development
IBJ StaffNovember 28, 2009

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SxU7YWj6ImI/AAAAAAAAD_4/YMO6aUY10m4/otb-government.gif

A new task force is charged with making recommendations for development of the city’s downtown certified technology park.

The Indianapolis Downtown Certified Technology Park Task Force convenes next month. It will evaluate optimal use of a corridor that’s long been targeted for life sciences businesses and facilities.

The corridor, bounded by 16th Street on the north, Fall Creek on the east and south, and White River on the west, was designated a certified technology park by the Indiana Economic Development Corp. in 2003, allowing collection of taxes generated inside its boundaries for reinvestment inside the park. It was named a life sciences district in 2004 under Indianapolis’ 2020 Regional Center Plan.

The eight-member task force is chaired by BioCrossroads Vice President Anne Shane. It also includes Indianapolis Economic Development Inc. CEO Scott Miller; his colleague, IEDI Life Sciences Director Nancy Langdon; Dorothy Jones, a member of the Metropolitan Development Commission; Riverside Civic League President Peggy Gamlin; Clarian Health Senior Vice President of Engagement and External Affairs Ron Stiver; Indiana University Office of Engagement Executive Director David Gard; and Deputy Mayor for Economic and Workforce Development Nick Weber.

“This is a concrete step forward as we look to determine what opportunities are out there for this specific cluster area,” Weber said in a statement. “Much has been done in terms of evaluating the possible, but now we are working to take action on these opportunities and make development in this area a reality.”
Maybe they can come up with something for Bush Stadium.

Where is the Uptown?

It's in midtown ;)

Downtown life sciences corridor flagged for development
IBJ StaffNovember 28, 2009

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SxU7YWj6ImI/AAAAAAAAD_4/YMO6aUY10m4/otb-government.gif

A new task force is charged with making recommendations for development of the city’s downtown certified technology park.

The Indianapolis Downtown Certified Technology Park Task Force convenes next month. It will evaluate optimal use of a corridor that’s long been targeted for life sciences businesses and facilities.

The corridor, bounded by 16th Street on the north, Fall Creek on the east and south, and White River on the west, was designated a certified technology park by the Indiana Economic Development Corp. in 2003, allowing collection of taxes generated inside its boundaries for reinvestment inside the park. It was named a life sciences district in 2004 under Indianapolis’ 2020 Regional Center Plan.

The eight-member task force is chaired by BioCrossroads Vice President Anne Shane. It also includes Indianapolis Economic Development Inc. CEO Scott Miller; his colleague, IEDI Life Sciences Director Nancy Langdon; Dorothy Jones, a member of the Metropolitan Development Commission; Riverside Civic League President Peggy Gamlin; Clarian Health Senior Vice President of Engagement and External Affairs Ron Stiver; Indiana University Office of Engagement Executive Director David Gard; and Deputy Mayor for Economic and Workforce Development Nick Weber.

“This is a concrete step forward as we look to determine what opportunities are out there for this specific cluster area,” Weber said in a statement. “Much has been done in terms of evaluating the possible, but now we are working to take action on these opportunities and make development in this area a reality.”

The word "PARK" scares me.

The Uptown development is supposed to be on the north west corner of college and 49th stretching north to 50th street.

http://www.uptown-indy.com/


(I am pretty sure this is an old rendering...)

http://www.uptown-indy.com/images/r_01.jpg (http://www.uptown-indy.com/)

http://www.broadripplegazette.com/images/v03n26/site_plan_small.jpg (http://www.uptown-indy.com/)

It's in midtown ;)

The Meridian-Kessler/Broad Ripple part of College Ave. (38th to 65th, what younger folks refer to as SoBro and Broad Ripple) is really an "Uptown" district. In fact, the (former) police station at 42nd was once a theater called The Uptown.

North of the river, Washington Twp. is completely suburban in character.

IMO Indianapolis' real "midtown district" is the Capitol/Illinois/Meridian/Penn/Delaware core from about 16th St. (or maybe I-65) up to 38th. Not really "downtown" and certainly not "uptown".

The word "PARK" scares me.

Me too. Sounds as if the model will be the north end of the downtown canal: suburban office park with lots of (nicely landscaped) surface parking.

It would be a breath of fresh air to see someone promote limiting the parking. Maybe this would prompt some more bus ridership. That is probably hoping for too much though

IMO Indianapolis' real "midtown district" is the Capitol/Illinois/Meridian/Penn/Delaware core from about 16th St. (or maybe I-65) up to 38th. Not really "downtown" and certainly not "uptown".

That makes sense, I've always thought of it as the exact opposite... Which is weird because I'm a very literal person..

Speaking of.. It has always bothered me when I see a news clip or article that mentions something happening on the "North Side' and the address of the actual event occurred at 34th & College.

"It would be a breath of fresh air to see someone promote limiting the parking. Maybe this would prompt some more bus ridership. That is probably hoping for too much though."

In the original plans, I remember there was talk of extending the people mover into that area -- so it would form a circular route from the Med Center, past the north Canal area, to Methodist -- and then west along 16th Street - and then back south through this area and across Fall Creek and into the Med Center campus again. With that in place, they might be able to reduce some of the parking - and encourage people to travel using transit -- and/or put parking in some remote area - and then people could travel via the people mover to a more dense, walkable core area without the need to have tons of parking in the higher density area.

That makes sense, I've always thought of it as the exact opposite... Which is weird because I'm a very literal person..

Speaking of.. It has always bothered me when I see a news clip or article that mentions something happening on the "North Side' and the address of the actual event occurred at 34th & College.

Likewise, everything up to about 42nd and Keystone gets dinged to the "near east side". The Meadows is something a whole lot different than, say, New York and Sherman.

Good reason to get a neighborhood map in the hands of news people. (Ablerock and arenn, is that thing online somewhere?)

The building at 22nd and Meridian is a two-tenant commercial structure. Subway will be in the corner unit, with a walk-up window and possibly some outdoor seating on the north side. It will be masonry and glass up to 10 feet, EIFS above. The site design is as pedestrian-friendly as its neighbors, with front doors facing Meridian and direct sidewalks from the public right of way.

The building at 22nd and Meridian is a two-tenant commercial structure. Subway will be in the corner unit, with a walk-up window and possibly some outdoor seating on the north side. It will be masonry and glass up to 10 feet, EIFS above. The site design is as pedestrian-friendly as its neighbors, with front doors facing Meridian and direct sidewalks from the public right of way.

Maybe a second location for Napolese? I'm guessing that wouldn't meet with the kind of opposition the location in M-K did. And the folks in Fall Creek Place would love to have another option.

---

My editorial comment on the M-K argument: please, please do not confuse INTENSITY of use with DENSITY.

The commercial strip at 49th and Penn has been in place since at least the 1940's and probably before. (Meridian Heights Cleaners is pushing 70 years in business there.)

The commercial cluster at the corner has grown to include another strip center across the street and Sullivan's Hardware. The strip center was an intensification of use and a slight densification (as more space was added). Likewise Sullivan's.

But there is a significant difference between restaurant uses in a neighborhood and retail stores: no one is going to eat at the same restaurant once a week or more. Probably not even once a month. So that requires a bigger "catchment area" than just people who can walk; the whole Meridian Kessler neighborhood has only about 6,500 households and Butler Tarkington maybe 3,500 more (not counting Butler) and the majority are outside of a 10-15 minute walk.

Clearly the pizza restaurant is adding INTENSITY of use to the corner while not changing the density at all. INTENSE uses, especially restaurants, require lots of parking for the customers who live too far away to walk. At the cleaner, that's not so much an issue: customers are in and out in less than ten minutes. Serving a thousand people in a week at the cleaners requires far less parking than a thousand restaurant patrons over the course of a week sitting down for an hour or two. And the restaurant will have more employees than the cleaners, too. They will all need to park somewhere.

I seldom agree with Clarke Kahlo, but this time he's right: it's like putting a size 10 foot in a size 8 shoe. Which is a polite way of saying "ten pounds of $#!+ in a five-pound sack."

There are places in Meridian Kessler that are appropriate for both densification and intensification of use. All those places are along College Avenue, and along several of the numbered streets east to the Monon. 49th & Penn is not one of those places yet.

Speaking of.. It has always bothered me when I see a news clip or article that mentions something happening on the "North Side' and the address of the actual event occurred at 34th & College.

Why? What would you call it if not the North side? The "creative" use of those designators that peeves me the most is that any story involving a crime, and taking place east of Meridian, is on the "Eastside." WTHR seems to be the worst offender in this regard.

Hi Everyone: I've been reading but not posting lately. Forgive me if this has been covered before, but I'm frustrated with downtown's street signage. Yesterday I walked from the intersection at Capitol/Indiana/New York east to Illinois, across Ohio to Market. On that route there is essentially NO street signage oriented to pedestrians, only to cars! Facing south at Ohio/Illinois there is no visible sign identifying Ohio. Facing west at Capitol/Indiana/NY you literally can't see a single street sign.

Who do I rant to about this?! It makes me want to take a job at streets department just to enforce that street identifiers aren't ONLY for drivers but for all our conventioneers walking around trying to find a restaurant too. Argh did it make me mad!

Speaking of conventioneers, just read this in the star

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091202/BUSINESS/91202005/Coveted-electronics-trade-show-returning

Hi Everyone: I've been reading but not posting lately. Forgive me if this has been covered before, but I'm frustrated with downtown's street signage. Yesterday I walked from the intersection at Capitol/Indiana/New York east to Illinois, across Ohio to Market. On that route there is essentially NO street signage oriented to pedestrians, only to cars! Facing south at Ohio/Illinois there is no visible sign identifying Ohio. Facing west at Capitol/Indiana/NY you literally can't see a single street sign.

Who do I rant to about this?! It makes me want to take a job at streets department just to enforce that street identifiers aren't ONLY for drivers but for all our conventioneers walking around trying to find a restaurant too. Argh did it make me mad!
I agree, it's an issue that should be addressed. American Dirt had a post a couple months ago on exactly that problem:

http://dirtamericana.blogspot.com/2009/08/what-street-am-i-on-says-pedestrian.html

The simple solution is to just put signs on both sides of the street light masts on one-way streets.

Hi Everyone: I've been reading but not posting lately. Forgive me if this has been covered before, but I'm frustrated with downtown's street signage. Yesterday I walked from the intersection at Capitol/Indiana/New York east to Illinois, across Ohio to Market. On that route there is essentially NO street signage oriented to pedestrians, only to cars! Facing south at Ohio/Illinois there is no visible sign identifying Ohio. Facing west at Capitol/Indiana/NY you literally can't see a single street sign.

Who do I rant to about this?! It makes me want to take a job at streets department just to enforce that street identifiers aren't ONLY for drivers but for all our conventioneers walking around trying to find a restaurant too. Argh did it make me mad!

I feel you Donna. Indy's DPW needs a fundamental paradigm shift. I can't overstate that. I'd love for the Mayor to initiate a personnel change.

Why? What would you call it if not the North side?

Well, it's not the north side. Yes it is north of Washington Street, but by 3.4 miles, I feel like it should be described as Midtown or by it's Neighborhood name (Mapleton - Fall Creek)

There is a pretty large epidemic (IMO) of people who live in this city and don't know anything about it. I'm a big of learning about the city I live in and knowing as much as possible about.. It's one thing that brought me to love Indianapolis.

If you're going to call everything NSEW of Washington St & Meridian NSEW Side, then you might as well go eat at a steak restaurant and watch the city sports team..

Thanks for the link, CorrND! That's exactly the problem, and it does sound like DPW needs a serious boot to the peduncle*. As American Dirt suggests, I think I'll start with an email to Downtown Inc and Convention Bureau, as well as DPW, and isn't there a new-fangled infrastructure committee we talked about several months ago?

* A peduncle is the muscle in a dolphin's tail. My husband just did the Zoo's In-Water Dolphin Adventure for his birthday - it was really cool, and my 6-year-old learned a new vocabulary word for "butt"!

So, this may sound totally ignorant to those of you in the know, but is there any news on the Indygo Transit Center?

I only ask, because I was going through the MPO 2009-2012 IRTIP, and it appears there is over 9 million in the budget for Fiscal Year 2009, and it says "Downtown Transit Center"

Other projects of note on the same page:

Intermodal transportation project at the Children’s Museum, bus earmark, FY 2009
$4,232,250

Multimodal transportation project at Ivy Tech State College, bus earmark, FY 2009
$1,671,000

Multimodal transportation project at Ivy Tech State College, bus earmark, FY 2010 $1,910,750

Downtown Transit Center, F,PE,LA&CN in FY 2009 $9,001,100

Im VERY green when it comes to deciphering this stuff, so I didnt know if this was something to be excited about or not. I did the digging on google and saw that they did a study back in 2006 on this, but its really went no where, and couldnt turn up much recent except early this year, on a news report that said Indygo was still looking for a site. But not much else. Cant imagine what they would spent $9 million on...

I suppose the other good news is that there is a substantial amount of $$ in it for NE corridor related studies as well.

^^^^^^^^

Intermodal transportation project at the Children’s Museum, bus earmark, FY 2009
$4,232,250

Multimodal transportation project at Ivy Tech State College, bus earmark, FY 2009
$1,671,000

Multimodal transportation project at Ivy Tech State College, bus earmark, FY 2010 $1,910,750

Downtown Transit Center, F,PE,LA&CN in FY 2009 $9,001,100

Im VERY green when it comes to deciphering this stuff, so I didnt know if this was something to be excited about or not.


I sure hope this is something to get excited about. I live in Meridian Park about half a mile from the children's museum! I would love it if I had a real public transportation center / hub so close to me! You go me all revved up. I really hope that this is something! (and I sure hope that thoes little bus shelters are not costing millions of $$$ :ohno:)

Well, it's not the north side. Yes it is north of Washington Street, but by 3.4 miles, I feel like it should be described as Midtown or by it's Neighborhood name (Mapleton - Fall Creek)

There is a pretty large epidemic (IMO) of people who live in this city and don't know anything about it. I'm a big of learning about the city I live in and knowing as much as possible about.. It's one thing that brought me to love Indianapolis.

If you're going to call everything NSEW of Washington St & Meridian NSEW Side, then you might as well go eat at a steak restaurant and watch the city sports team..

34th and College is the north side. I agree that "north side" is an isufficient description of the area, it's not an inaccurate description. That location is 34 blocks north and 7 blocks east, practically due north from the center of the city. Ideally, media would describe that area as "in the Mapleton-Fall Creek Neighborhood on the near north side...." The problem with "midtown" is that it doesn't provide much information in a "symmetrical" city like Indianapolis, unless there are four midtowns. The intersection of 10th and LaSalle is about the same distance east/north from Washington and Meridian as 34th and College is north/east. Would anyone argue that 10th and LaSalle is anywhere other than the "near east side"? I agree that a descriptor like "east side," which is broad enough to include everything from Holy Cross to Irvington to 38th and Post to Washington Square Mall, is too broad to be a useful label. But that doesn't make it inaccurate.

On one hand, you lecture those who don't know the city very well. On the other hand, your Manhattan style downtown-midtown-uptown conception is quite north side-centric.

^^^^^^^^


I sure hope this is something to get excited about. I live in Meridian Park about half a mile from the children's museum! I would love it if I had a real public transportation center / hub so close to me! You go me all revved up. I really hope that this is something! (and I sure hope that thoes little bus shelters are not costing millions of $$$ :ohno:)

Well, I found THIS about the Ivy Tech Multi Modal facility
http://www.ivytech.edu/about/news-stories/fairbanks_011509.html

On one hand, you lecture those who don't know the city very well. On the other hand, your Manhattan style downtown-midtown-uptown conception is quite north side-centric.

Indianapolis in general is VERY north side centric, it's not just me.

I don't have a problem with "Near North Side" at all, that definitely helps pointing out the location. My major problem is definitely the generality of location descriptions.

Indianapolis in general is VERY north side centric, it's not just me.

I don't have a problem with "Near North Side" at all, that definitely helps pointing out the location. My major problem is definitely the generality of location descriptions.

Oh, I know it just not you, but I don't think it's good for the city as a whole to have that approach. It's one thing for the north side, which does have better neighborhoods and amenities than the rest of town, to get more attention. It's quite another to designate neighborhoods as if the rest of the city doesn't exist.

The Children’s Museum of Indianapolis Intermodal Facility Phase II (RATIO Architects) (http://www.ratioarchitects.com/assets/uploads/Childrens_Museum_-_Phase_II_Intermodal_Facility.pdf)
Overview of the project including a bike port, bust stop, transit kiosk, and welcome center.


It seems like it would be odd to have a transportation center on two one way streets. I know that it is possible, but it just seems like it will be inefficient to catch downtown or east bound buses from the CM.

Oh, I know it just not you, but I don't think it's good for the city as a whole to have that approach. It's one thing for the north side, which does have better neighborhoods and amenities than the rest of town, to get more attention. It's quite another to designate neighborhoods as if the rest of the city doesn't exist.

There are historic and geographic reasons why Indianapolis grew north and east. The northside, Woodruff, and Irvington didn't start as "favored quarters" but grew that way for solid empirical reasons.

One is astrophysics: people generally prefer not to commute into the sun both ways, even on streetcars. Another is regular physics: water and (more to the point) horse manure rinsed off streets into combined sewers flows downstream...south and west in Indianapolis. Another is physics-related geography: sewage treatment is always on the downstream side of an inland city. So additional undesirable uses (stockyards and meatpacking plants, multiple foundries, coal-gas plant, chemical plant, rail yards) went south and west. A fact of life is that people who have a choice don't want to live by smelly/noisy factories or rail yards.

The Children’s Museum of Indianapolis Intermodal Facility Phase II (RATIO Architects) (http://www.ratioarchitects.com/assets/uploads/Childrens_Museum_-_Phase_II_Intermodal_Facility.pdf)
Overview of the project including a bike port, bust stop, transit kiosk, and welcome center.


It seems like it would be odd to have a transportation center on two one way streets. I know that it is possible, but it just seems like it will be inefficient to catch downtown or east bound buses from the CM.

"Transportation center" = garage in the cases of The Children's Museum and Ivy Tech. Fed money can't be used for parking garages but can be used for "intermodal" or "multimodal" facilties. So garages with bus stops and bike racks and future urban trails qualify.

They sure make it sound better in all the pulic fluff they issue. It would be a shame to have a 4 story parking garage constructed, and then have a small portion of what "sounds good from the article" look like garbage pasted onto one side of it.

I agree, it's an issue that should be addressed. American Dirt had a post a couple months ago on exactly that problem:

http://dirtamericana.blogspot.com/2009/08/what-street-am-i-on-says-pedestrian.html

The simple solution is to just put signs on both sides of the street light masts on one-way streets.

And DPW is still doing it...The newly opened Market Street was done this way as well...

Well, it's not the north side. Yes it is north of Washington Street, but by 3.4 miles, I feel like it should be described as Midtown or by it's Neighborhood name (Mapleton - Fall Creek)

There is a pretty large epidemic (IMO) of people who live in this city and don't know anything about it. I'm a big of learning about the city I live in and knowing as much as possible about.. It's one thing that brought me to love Indianapolis.

Any of those terms would be accurate. It is on the "side" of the city that is to the "north." "North" + "side". This isn't rocket science, and your suggestion that I don't know anything about the city is offensive and way off base.

Fantastic to hear that the CEDIA convention is coming back to Indy. That is HUGE - and will be wonderful to have in September 2011 - with the Convention Center expansion finishing up in January 2011 and the new JWMarriott opening in February of 2011! Very good. Hope we keep hearing more good news about additional huge new conventions.

Ideas for the City Market:http://www.ibj.com/visions-for-ailing-city-market-include-arts-venue-ymca/PARAMS/article/14887

Anything that changes the static and emptiness that is currently present in the market seems like a good idea to me. It desperately needs an infusion of energy.

Ideas for the City Market:http://www.ibj.com/visions-for-ailing-city-market-include-arts-venue-ymca/PARAMS/article/14887

Anything that changes the static and emptiness that is currently present in the market seems like a good idea to me. It desperately needs an infusion of energy.

Firewoman commented at the foot of that article in a thoughtful way: put a performing arts/live/work/exercise facility into either the Old City Hall or on one of the Gravel Parking Lots we all love at Market & Alabama.

Then, combined with the new Hudson and the other new apartments at the Ops Center site a block east, there would be more foot traffic and people to support an actual market in City Market.

Ideas for the City Market:http://www.ibj.com/visions-for-ailing-city-market-include-arts-venue-ymca/PARAMS/article/14887

Anything that changes the static and emptiness that is currently present in the market seems like a good idea to me. It desperately needs an infusion of energy.

I didn't read the article yet, but I think they should raze the weird additions on the sides of the original building and create some great park space. On the east side it would tie together with the trail. I am thinking kind of like some of the small green spaces in Manhattan. Nothing huge or extravagant. Maybe a small fountain, sculpture, or a statue and some benches. Large sidewalk areas with great planters and good shade trees.

I like the idea in the article also! much more ambitious than mine.

Indiana Ice plan to build $12 million hockey facility
IBJ Scott OlsonDecember 2, 2009

Ice Sports and Entertainment, the owner of the Indiana Ice hockey team, announced Wednesday afternoon that it plans to build a complex that could contain up to four skating rinks and house the Indiana/World Skating Academy.

Ice President and CEO Paul Skjodt said confidentiality agreements bar him from disclosing the location at this time, but he maintained that private investors are in place to fund the estimated $12 million price tag.

“As far as the location is concerned, there are a lot of factors involved,” Skjodt said.

The IWSA, located at Pan Am Plaza in downtown Indianapolis, has been searching for a new home since locally based Kite Realty Group Trust partnered in April 2008 with California-based Coastal Partners LLC to purchase the plaza from Indiana Sports Corp. The real estate companies plan to eventually redevelop the property.

IWSA Executive Director Pam Robinson confirmed that several locations are being considered for the new facility, although her organization in the past has endorsed property on the Indiana State Fairgrounds. The Ice play at the fairgrounds’ Pepsi Coliseum.

“[Skjodt] and I have been talking over the last 12 years about a partnership between his and our programs,” she said. “Our missions are the same. It’s just a natural relationship.”

In a recent IWSA annual report, the organization said a location at the State Fairgrounds would “enable IWSA to offer housing at the renovated 4-H dormitories on site while still taking advantage of downtown hotel space.”

Construction on the first phase of the proposed facility is set to start in the spring and could be finished in a year. It would include two National Hockey League-size rinks and approximately 3,500 seats. Two additional rinks could be built, with space for a catering kitchen to host events such as parties, graduations and wedding receptions.

In addition, the complex would serve as the Ice’s training facility.

Pent-up demand for more hockey rinks prompted the decision to move forward on the project, Skjodt said. By hosting amateur hockey programs, camps and tournaments, he thinks he can bring an additional $1 million in annual revenue to team operations.

“We’ve got some high school teams that are skating at 5 in the morning before they go to class,” Skjodt said. “We’re at a critical stage for both figure skating and youth hockey in this city.”

Indeed, the loss of the ice rink at Ellenberger Park leaves only six-full time rinks in the metropolitan area. And two of those will be gone if the redevelopment of Pan Am Plaza comes to fruition. The office building contains two rinks—one at street level and one below.

“If we’re trying to attract international employees, people who come from Canada and Europe, they want something that’s familiar to them,” Robinson said.

Having ice rinks open year-round is critical to figure skating team-training schedules, Robinson said. A couple from France attempting to make the country’s Olympic team is currently training at Pan Am Plaza, she said.

The Indiana Ice play in the U.S. Hockey League, a junior amateur league. Plans for the new facility will be formally announced at the USHL All-Star VIP dinner Jan. 25 in Sioux Falls, S.D

-----------------------------------------------

The Pan Am Plaza site is going to be one of the best and most centralized pieces of RE in Indianapolis to get developed in the near future. (The only other two that stand out in my mind like this one does are 1 Market square and Penn Centre) I really hope that they do something great that properly addresses its surroundings. The new convention center gives them great visibility, I hope the developer takes advantage.

Firewoman commented at the foot of that article in a thoughtful way: put a performing arts/live/work/exercise facility into either the Old City Hall or on one of the Gravel Parking Lots we all love at Market & Alabama.

Then, combined with the new Hudson and the other new apartments at the Ops Center site a block east, there would be more foot traffic and people to support an actual market in City Market.

That's fine as well.

So, this may sound totally ignorant to those of you in the know, but is there any news on the Indygo Transit Center?

I only ask, because I was going through the MPO 2009-2012 IRTIP, and it appears there is over 9 million in the budget for Fiscal Year 2009, and it says "Downtown Transit Center"

Other projects of note on the same page:

Intermodal transportation project at the Children’s Museum, bus earmark, FY 2009
$4,232,250

Multimodal transportation project at Ivy Tech State College, bus earmark, FY 2009
$1,671,000

Multimodal transportation project at Ivy Tech State College, bus earmark, FY 2010 $1,910,750

Downtown Transit Center, F,PE,LA&CN in FY 2009 $9,001,100

Im VERY green when it comes to deciphering this stuff, so I didnt know if this was something to be excited about or not. I did the digging on google and saw that they did a study back in 2006 on this, but its really went no where, and couldnt turn up much recent except early this year, on a news report that said Indygo was still looking for a site. But not much else. Cant imagine what they would spent $9 million on...

I suppose the other good news is that there is a substantial amount of $$ in it for NE corridor related studies as well.

On the last two interviews on Abdul's show, the Mayor has mentioned Public transportation.

On the most recent, which just aired a couple of days ago, Abdul asked a question about self-evaluation and part of Ballard's response was this:

"...We want to get to, we will be addressing mass transit in the next year...and we want to make sure that we come become the livable city...that we become internationally known, so that people want to bring their companies here."

On the last two interviews on Abdul's show, the Mayor has mentioned Public transportation.

On the most recent, which just aired a couple of days ago, Abdul asked a question about self-evaluation and part of Ballard's response was this:

"...We want to get to, we will be addressing mass transit in the next year...and we want to make sure that we come become the livable city...that we become internationally known, so that people want to bring their companies here."

Lets hope that it really is great enough to gain international recognition. There have been too many times, when it comes to public transit and general mobility, that Indy has been wildly mediocre. With all of the trends in our city toward bike lanes and walk-ability, lets hope that we will take a giant leap forward with truly user friendly public transit. It would be great to lead for once.

Any of those terms would be accurate. It is on the "side" of the city that is to the "north." "North" + "side". This isn't rocket science, and your suggestion that I don't know anything about the city is offensive and way off base.

I'm not sure how you took anything I said as a personal attack on you. It was a very general statement and not directed toward anyone specifically.

Also, if you read my previous statements my issue with the generality of the usage of "NSEW side." It would be nice if media outlets would be more specific about neighborhood names and using terms as "near" and "far."

While it's correct terminology, I find it to be inappropriate when trying to reveal the location of an event.. It would also allow the public to be more familiar with specific neighborhoods and areas of the city.

With the news about the ICE (see about four posts up) and Kite wanting to redevelop this property it seems like it might be in the news sometime after the ICE vacate. Any thoughts about what should come of the site?

The current building is a bland 11 story building that looks like some suburban office park.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SxfthubSJnI/AAAAAAAAEB4/6kj839RGfzU/s912/Pan%20Am.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SxftiYIHHLI/AAAAAAAAECA/jjoqTO0fd-w/s912/Pan%20Am%203.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SxfvIeRUteI/AAAAAAAAECI/juV7fEIjjXM/s912/Pan%20Am%204.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SxfvIn3UPAI/AAAAAAAAECM/OqV0LO2XtTw/s912/Pan%20Am%205.jpg

Ideas for the City Market:http://www.ibj.com/visions-for-ailing-city-market-include-arts-venue-ymca/PARAMS/article/14887

Anything that changes the static and emptiness that is currently present in the market seems like a good idea to me. It desperately needs an infusion of energy.

My ideas:

A high-tech bicycle garage, like the one built in Millenium Park in Chicago. There is probably Federal $$ for such a thing, and the one in Chicago got lots of corporate $$ too.
A drive-thru grocery. Order online, and pick up your bags on your way home from work.
Any plan should preserve the falafel guy in the west wing.
Putting something in the wings would be great. But you would do more good for City Market by building a Target, Whole Foods, office tower, and/or apartment high-rise on the MSA site!

With the news about the ICE (see about four posts up) and Kite wanting to redevelop this property it seems like it might be in the news sometime after the ICE vacate. Any thoughts about what should come of the site?

The current building is a bland 11 story building that looks like some suburban office park.


I would like to see this area transform into something similar to Cincinnati's Fountain Square. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_Square,_Cincinnati)

If the ice skating rinks are going out, it would be nice to see them get developed into mid-rises with restaurants/shops on the ground floor and possible living/office space above.

I would like to see this area transform into something similar to Cincinnati's Fountain Square. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_Square,_Cincinnati)

If the ice skating rinks are going out, it would be nice to see them get developed into mid-rises with restaurants/shops on the ground floor and possible living/office space above.

I like it. That Plaza sure is nice! The current Pan Am is super bland.

I am hoping that what ever is redeveloped there allows greater access to the area east of the convention center to convention goers. Basically right now the Plaza addresses Union station and blocks off Capitol and Georgia street. I think that it would be great to have a more inviting open area that faces the new entrance to the convention center. (not ideal, but rotate the current configuration 180... get my drift?)

With the news about the ICE (see about four posts up) and Kite wanting to redevelop this property it seems like it might be in the news sometime after the ICE vacate. Any thoughts about what should come of the site?

The current building is a bland 11 story building that looks like some suburban office park.



Whatever gets developed there, adding two gerbil tubes to it would connect at least 8 hotels, the mall, convention center and LOS. You could walk indoors from LOS almost to the circle. One more tube or tunnel would add the long-sought mall-to-Union Station connection. With Union Station comes a couple more hotels, and, who knows...maybe a commuter train station or rail connection to the airport.

I know that gerbil tubes are not popular in this forum, but an all-indoor downtown would help attract more Super Bowls, Final Fours, etc.

I was down at Union Station on thanksgiving wekend shooting photos, and this whole area feels like its been forgotten by development. Getting around the whole of downtown is pretty nice. The streets are nice and generally well kept but when you get down around the viaduct area and anything associated with Union Station or Pan Am Plaza, it feels like the part of town that has been forgotten. Broken pavement. Its scary walking along Illinois under the via duct. Not SCARY but just looks "rough" for lack of a better description.

I could speak more on the state of things, but if Union Station is going to be a hub for the commuter rail downtown, then there needs to be a thought put to either cleaning up this area... I mean SOMETHING. People will be walking to and from this area, and the last thing you want is a has been type of feel to the city around where this would go

I was down at Union Station on thanksgiving wekend shooting photos, and this whole area feels like its been forgotten by development. Getting around the whole of downtown is pretty nice. The streets are nice and generally well kept but when you get down around the viaduct area and anything associated with Union Station or Pan Am Plaza, it feels like the part of town that has been forgotten. Broken pavement. Its scary walking along Illinois under the via duct. Not SCARY but just looks "rough" for lack of a better description.

I could speak more on the state of things, but if Union Station is going to be a hub for the commuter rail downtown, then there needs to be a thought put to either cleaning up this area... I mean SOMETHING. People will be walking to and from this area, and the last thing you want is a has been type of feel to the city around where this would go


Aside from the Illinois Street tunnel most of the actual area above the streets is nothing more than after thought parking decks. It seems like a lot of the area above the streets could be opened up to minimize the tunnels and connect better to south street. (1/4 or less block of tunnel instead of a full block)

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SxgG6XSUw_I/AAAAAAAAECQ/M06thBlWVP8/s912/Pan%20Am%206.jpg

I was down at Union Station on thanksgiving wekend shooting photos, and this whole area feels like its been forgotten by development. Getting around the whole of downtown is pretty nice. The streets are nice and generally well kept but when you get down around the viaduct area and anything associated with Union Station or Pan Am Plaza, it feels like the part of town that has been forgotten. Broken pavement. Its scary walking along Illinois under the via duct. Not SCARY but just looks "rough" for lack of a better description.

I could speak more on the state of things, but if Union Station is going to be a hub for the commuter rail downtown, then there needs to be a thought put to either cleaning up this area... I mean SOMETHING. People will be walking to and from this area, and the last thing you want is a has been type of feel to the city around where this would go

Story with a point, so bear with me:

IMO the biggest single improvement at the new airport terminal vs. the old: the open, light, airy feel around the upper and lower level doors to the terminal building. It feels safe and welcoming. The old terminal entrances felt dark and closed in...because they were. It was a poor way to greet visitors.

The change was achieved partly by white concrete, white paint, and white light.

In a world where every gasoline station canopy is bright as day 24/7, there is absolutely no reason that the downtown viaduct underpasses at East, Delaware, Penn, Meridian, Illinois, and Capitol are not white and bright underneath. Likewise the underside of the Conseco Garage at Virginia.

Paint 'em white, put up gobs of light.