Eddie, just my redneck observation off the cuff here, but those areas you have blocked in look like at one time they were servicing the large number of platforms at union station. Like you said, it could be donw away with. The one part is outside union station parking garage and is used. Ever been there on a Saturday night? Its full. The next one over meridian is actually chain link fenced in and appers there used to be a play ground there, but you need an electronbic swipe badge to even get in there anymore. The west side of the station is all ripped up through there now anyway with the convention center construction. The track is actually broken except for the freight line. It too though, is all chain linked in and could be improved upon.

I have about 2 dozen photos of the entire area that I took for an article Im putting together, but can post some of them for ya all to see tonight or tomorrow morning.

With the news about the ICE (see about four posts up) and Kite wanting to redevelop this property it seems like it might be in the news sometime after the ICE vacate. Any thoughts about what should come of the site?
This is the plan that Kite pitched when they bought Pan Am Plaza, 70k sq.ft. of low-rise retail/restaurant space:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s289/corrnd/panamlg.jpg

That's a pathetic use of a huge piece of land immediately adjacent to the Convention Center. I assume the DMD would never approve such a low-intensity usage on that site.

This is the plan that Kite pitched when they bought Pan Am Plaza, 70k sq.ft. of low-rise retail/restaurant space:

That's a pathetic use of a huge piece of land immediately adjacent to the Convention Center. I assume the DMD would never approve such a low-intensity usage on that site.

Gross. This property could change the whole feeling of that area of DT and couild really tie the convention center to Illinois st and the S. Meridian area. It needs to be thought out much better than that...

They should work out an agreement with Indygo to put their transit center on a portion of that. With its proximity to Union Station, that seems like a logical use of the space.

This post in the IndyStar forums DISGUSTS me! It's about the new city market proposal...


Great,that's all we need,our hard earned tax dollars going to help finance urin filled crosses,Bill Ayers types stomping on our flag & the 10 Commandments of Atheisism,and soon they will find refuge in our city market. Is it now politically INcorrect to take offense to these liberal bastions of faith?

Just let me know BEFORE these"artists"start spitting on passers- by,our military & capitalists,I'll go to Canada,where they still have a say in matters like this.

Don't we have enough liberal arts/& artists places in Indianapolis already?

How about using all that pocket burning money to pay off a little debt,fund a private school program or promote private businesses?

Should I bring spare change & a warm meal for the"preforming artists"?

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091203/LOCAL18/912030470/-1/frontpagecities/Market-vision-artists-hub-Y
:ohno::bash::ohno::bash::ohno:

I say go ahead and move to Canada. Wont hurt my feelings

idiots...

This post in the IndyStar forums DISGUSTS me! It's about the new city market proposal...


Great,that's all we need,our hard earned tax dollars going to help finance urin filled crosses,Bill Ayers types stomping on our flag & the 10 Commandments of Atheisism,and soon they will find refuge in our city market. Is it now politically INcorrect to take offense to these liberal bastions of faith?

Just let me know BEFORE these"artists"start spitting on passers- by,our military & capitalists,I'll go to Canada,where they still have a say in matters like this.

Don't we have enough liberal arts/& artists places in Indianapolis already?

How about using all that pocket burning money to pay off a little debt,fund a private school program or promote private businesses?

Should I bring spare change & a warm meal for the"preforming artists"?

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091203/LOCAL18/912030470/-1/frontpagecities/Market-vision-artists-hub-Y
:ohno::bash::ohno::bash::ohno:

BOO HOO

Always playing the devil's advocate (and looking past the obvious crank's reflexive/retrograde "America, Love it or Leave it" tone):

A time with 10% unemployment is probably not the time to be talking about or aggressively promoting arts venues without also emphasizing the construction and permanent jobs that will be created by such a project, and the notion that the development will be self-sustaining and will in fact contribute tax revenue instead of bleeding Indianapolis taxpayers.

What always sets these kooks off is the notion that the City is funding art or arts venues and shows that they don't like, which resonates with some less-kooky conservative and libertarian types. Take away that argument, and they just look like kooks.

Went over to the new Crown Wine and Spirits store on Delaware today. They did a cool job of snazzing the place up. The wine cellar in the basement is cool too.

There is some heavy duty construction equipment on the piece of "parkland" off of ohio and the canal. I wonder if that is for development purposes or for whatever they seem to be doing with ohio street constructionwise.

The City Market needs something like this to pick it up. For so many years the city has been slammed for lack of this and that. I believe that downtown is as good as people want it to be. This is a good thing for the market, I believe.

Thanks for the link, CorrND! That's exactly the problem, and it does sound like DPW needs a serious boot to the peduncle*. As American Dirt suggests, I think I'll start with an email to Downtown Inc and Convention Bureau, as well as DPW, and isn't there a new-fangled infrastructure committee we talked about several months ago?

* A peduncle is the muscle in a dolphin's tail. My husband just did the Zoo's In-Water Dolphin Adventure for his birthday - it was really cool, and my 6-year-old learned a new vocabulary word for "butt"!

Thanks for reading Donna. And it's funny, I always thought a "peduncle" was a burnt-out taillight. (Contrast with "pediddle.")

The Star forums are full of this garbage all the time, some of the posts just drip with ignorance, hatred and anger. Ever since we elected Obama its gotten worse with some really racist comments. It just shows we are a long way from where we should be as a community and a nation.

This post in the IndyStar forums DISGUSTS me! It's about the new city market proposal...


Great,that's all we need,our hard earned tax dollars going to help finance urin filled crosses,Bill Ayers types stomping on our flag & the 10 Commandments of Atheisism,and soon they will find refuge in our city market. Is it now politically INcorrect to take offense to these liberal bastions of faith?

Just let me know BEFORE these"artists"start spitting on passers- by,our military & capitalists,I'll go to Canada,where they still have a say in matters like this.

Don't we have enough liberal arts/& artists places in Indianapolis already?

How about using all that pocket burning money to pay off a little debt,fund a private school program or promote private businesses?

Should I bring spare change & a warm meal for the"preforming artists"?

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091203/LOCAL18/912030470/-1/frontpagecities/Market-vision-artists-hub-Y
:ohno::bash::ohno::bash::ohno:

Nothing really surprises me with those forums. All the posts generally gravitate to either racist or completely ignorant statements (like the one above). Its IndyStar's poor attempt to keep people on their site for more advertising exposures.. plain an simple.

Oh, Indy Rock, I hit the link and saw the comment. Its by USSA, he's a regular in the forums. He hates everything and everybody, especially Liberals/Progressives. Him and I have gone round in several of the Star forums.

Anyone with even the slightest tendency towards hypertension is better off just ignoring the comments on IndyStar forums. They tend to be less refined than the old "Let It Out" was---mostly just a sounding board for extremists who have no real bearing on the issues at hand. (I.e,. they use the computer to vent because they never could articulate their ideas persuasively at a genuine live forum, or they're simply not ambitious enough.) The online forums at every city newspaper I've seen operate pretty much the exact same way.

Yeah, hopefully in another decade or two - most of these idiots will be gone.

Speaking of the Arts in Indianapolis -- it was a fantastic night tonight at all of the galleries and art studios throughout downtown. I spent a few hours checking out all of the great shows in the Fountain Square area. The show entitled THUNDER PERFECT MIND put on by Basilica was a fantastic experience. Hard to describe in a short blurb -- but the combination of so many live visual and audio experiences in a superb, very textural and interactive space was fantastic. The live "bands" made for an incredible experience of noise, lights and vibrations. It was one of those things that might be difficult to understand if you weren't able to experience it live. --- but I thought it was a pretty amazing thing. Anyway .....

The temporary exhibition set up in the interim space of IMOCA was very good also. Along with several very interesting, moving "machines", one piece involved an interactive, personal experience where people laid down on a mat that slid into a very interesting space with different, increasingly intimate visual experiences. Another one of those that - you probably needed to be there to understand. Anyway -- it was also very cool. Lots of folks experiencing all of the galleries and studios in the Murphy Arts Center. The Wheeler Arts Center also looked busy from the outside -- but I didn't make it over there to check that out.

Mass Avenue also had a lot going on too --- although I got there a little past the prime time, I think. By 10:00 or so - most of the crowds seemed to be concentrating in the numerous bars and restaurants. The heart of downtown was very busy also. Mobs of cars trying to squeeze around the Circle and filling up the Wholesale District. I was kind of imagining what it is going to be like when the Super Bowl is in town -- big crowds during cold weather. Hopefully it will be a nice, clear cool night - like last night -- where people are bundled up - but don't mind being out on the streets enjoying the city and filling all of the bars and restaurants. (The worst for the Super Bowl would be to have temps in the mid thirties with cold rain -- or simply just a blizzard with temps in the teens or lower.) Its great to have not only everything going on in the heart of downtown -- but also to have these great additional districts for the crowds to spill into. I think in 2 1/2 years, Fountain Square will really be hitting its prime --- and Mass Avenue will continue to be going strong. (btw -- in terms of crowd numbers - it seemed to me like there were more people enjoying the arts scene in Fountain Square last night than on Mass Avenue. They both were doing well -- but it seemed to me that there was more going on in Fountain Square particularly in terms of the arts and cultural scene.)

I love how this forum gets highjacked in the same way each time.....first its about the indy star forums, and then its about hating the political party you oppose. Is development really this dead? It is a happy and wonderful world on this forum when we are talking about development.

City mulls 6 proposals for use of Old City Hall

http://www.ibj.com/new-lease-on-life-for-old-city-hall/PARAMS/article/14936

http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/IBJ-Print/120709/city-hall-3-perspectives-15col.jpg

^^OMG! I love it. Green roofs.... infill of a parking lot.... new midrise building.... "boutique hotel".... re-use of a historic building. I am on board for this one.

These sound like promising projects, but I'm not so sure that with our current economy, we will see any real development going on downtown in the next 2-3 years (except for those projects already under construction. The few midrise apartment projects that keep popping up, along with anything that is proposed for this site, and Penn Centre will all go the way of SoDo, Ralston Square, the Merill Tower, and the Stutz Tower....all of these projects seem like mere pipe dreams at this point in time. They will all want city financing incentives out the ass and the city is currently trying to dig its way out of the debts (CIB, etc.)it is already in. Sorry to be Debbie Downer

Delete

If it happens to be approved, I think that the green roofs need to happen. Even to render a new mid-rise, design needs to be a big consideration. I don't see a new building being passed any time soon, as well as the redesign of the old building.

The only render that I think is really nice of the above buildings is Stutz Tower. Actually I think that is an excellent design. Something tells me that the tower will not happen.

So Toad Daniels is going to cut $150 million in higher education funding despite the state sitting on a BILLION dollar surplus.

Why is the state so hostile towards higher education?

Do Republicans think that cutting taxes and removing environmental regulations are only the ways to improve the economy?

Whatever goes into the old city hall, it should definitely involve opening up the windows and should be something open to the public. The interior of the building is so much nicer-looking than the outside, it would be a shame to put in something like the hotel-residences proposal that would have it closed off to the general public. It was built as a public space and should remain so.

"So Toad Daniels is going to cut $150 million in higher education funding despite the state sitting on a BILLION dollar surplus."

You see, too many Americans think like this, and that is why most Americans have little to no wealth. Indiana, as a state, is 600 million short of projected revenues, just since July. Fortunately, we have a Gov. that is being PROACTIVE, and cutting expenditures while we still have a little money in the bank.

I suppose he could have waited until that billion dollars was exhausted, and then driven the state into insolvency, but then he would have been like virtually every other Gov. I, for one, am glad we have a fiscally responsible Gov.

With state government, you often need surplus funds just for cash flow management. Many municipalities with nominally balanced budgets end up borrowing because of uneven revenues. That costs money. Also, the strong reserve position is one reason Indiana has a triple A credit rating. A reduction in the credit rating would again raise borrowing costs and cost the state money.

The governor is rightly looking at ways to save money. Even Pat Baurer hasn't been criticizing most of these cuts. If you are $150 million per month short, you can burn through a billion fast. I do expect the legislature to approve tapping additional surplus funds during the short session. But at the end of the day you have to have income equal outgo. Spending your savings account to avoid painful cuts only delays the day of reckoning and causes big problems down the road. Better to make tough choices sooner rather than later.

Whatever goes into the old city hall, it should definitely involve opening up the windows and should be something open to the public. The interior of the building is so much nicer-looking than the outside, it would be a shame to put in something like the hotel-residences proposal that would have it closed off to the general public. It was built as a public space and should remain so.

Word in the development community (from what I've heard) is that the strongest and most credible proposal is an expansion of educational uses by one of the for-profit institutions already in the area, such as Harrison College.

The only render that I think is really nice of the above buildings is Stutz Tower. Actually I think that is an excellent design. Something tells me that the tower will not happen.
Yeah, I was recently wondering about that. Does anyone have any idea what is going on with that project?

http://www.thestutz.com/images/Tower/tower2-TLS.jpg
http://www.thestutz.com/Tower.html

I really like this project, and think it would do wonders for spurring development on that side of downtown.

Yeah, I was recently wondering about that. Does anyone have any idea what is going on with that project?
I really like this project, and think it would do wonders for spurring development on that side of downtown.

I believe this project is currently on hold. I know someone who leases space in the Stutz I and their vacancy has gone up. The tennants are also sent letters with mandates to conserve energy due to decreased funds and higher operating costs.:cry:

Gotta get this killed:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091207/BUSINESS/912070307/1305/ARCHIVE/Zoning-board-to-vote-on-I-465-sign-request

Zoning board to vote on I-465 sign request
Posted: December 7, 2009

Indianapolis -- A city zoning board will vote Jan. 5 on a variance request by Flaherty & Collins to erect a billboard-size sign along I-465 to advertise its Westlake Apartments, near the 10th Street interchange. The 22-foot-tall sign would project over a noise barrier wall. Zoning staff said the sign is larger than rules permit and, if approved, could lead to a profusion of similar signs along the interstate loop. (Star report)

Why do they want this sign anyway? Because you cant already see this sprawling mess already from the freeway... good grief

Why do they want this sign anyway? Because you cant already see this sprawling mess already from the freeway... good grief

Right. People ONLY choose apartments in Indy by driving around I-465 and then going into the complexes they see from the interstate...

Not.

I agree with arenn and cailes...kill this one, or the whole of I-465 will be fake limestone walls with "signs" (billboards) poking up above them. The blank walls are bad enough by themselves, but I guess I should shut up about that before INDOT starts selling advertising space directly on the walls...

With state government, you often need surplus funds just for cash flow management. Many municipalities with nominally balanced budgets end up borrowing because of uneven revenues. That costs money. Also, the strong reserve position is one reason Indiana has a triple A credit rating. A reduction in the credit rating would again raise borrowing costs and cost the state money.

The governor is rightly looking at ways to save money. Even Pat Baurer hasn't been criticizing most of these cuts. If you are $150 million per month short, you can burn through a billion fast. I do expect the legislature to approve tapping additional surplus funds during the short session. But at the end of the day you have to have income equal outgo. Spending your savings account to avoid painful cuts only delays the day of reckoning and causes big problems down the road. Better to make tough choices sooner rather than later.


Aaren, you are right, but where the budget gets cut is what worries me. Education is the worst possible thing to cut. It causes even bigger problems down the road. (OK.. Now we can get off of politics. Sorry.)

Aaren, you are right, but where the budget gets cut is what worries me. Education is the worst possible thing to cut. It causes even bigger problems down the road. (OK.. Now we can get off of politics. Sorry.)

Sorry, Eddie, but there are worse things to cut in the state budget than higher education. Here's my list:


Medicaid
Welfare benefits
Unemployment benefits
Child Welfare/advocacy
Law enforcement
Prisons
Highway maintenance


The colleges have demonstrated ability to raise funds independently.

I really like the idea of incorporating a boutique hotel with the reuse of the old city hall. It would be a great location for such a hotel with the proximity to Mass Ave., Cultural Trail and the general lack of hotel rooms in the area. The bourbon bar sounds excellent as well.

It's hard to tell about the architecture from the rendering, but I love the focus and prominence of the green roof.

It would be great to see something happen and bring some life to that area. That surface lot needs to go and the old city hall must be refurbed. It is a gem of a structure and has such great character on the inside.

I really like the idea of incorporating a boutique hotel with the reuse of the old city hall. It would be a great location for such a hotel with the proximity to Mass Ave., Cultural Trail and the general lack of hotel rooms in the area. The bourbon bar sounds excellent as well.

It's hard to tell about the architecture from the rendering, but I love the focus and prominence of the green roof.

It would be great to see something happen and bring some life to that area. That surface lot needs to go and the old city hall must be refurbed. It is a gem of a structure and has such great character on the inside.

The boutique hotel is great, I wonder if the developer has a good idea about the architecture of it. It can be anything as we all know, and the hotel company may have some say in the design. The city hall should stay, Indy has lost enough old gems to the wrecking ball.

Bella Vita restaurant planned for Circle Centre


An Italian restaurant whose owner has ties to embattled local businessman Tim Durham is poised to take the first-floor space in Circle Centre mall formerly occupied by Bertolini’s.

The Bella Vita restaurant is “coming soon” to the location, according to signage outside the storefront next to P.F. Chang’s and Champps.

The new restaurant is owned by Indianapolis restaurateur Henri Najem and his wife, Shelley. They've operated a Bella Vita in the area since 1998, the past five years at Geist Marina.

Najem signed a five-year lease for 6,700 square feet at Circle Centre and expects the restaurant to open in early January, pending approval of a liquor license.

He said he's been eyeing downtown for the past two years.

"All the development and the expansion of the [Indiana] Convention Center really drew me down here," he said

Got this in my JAGNEWS on IUPUI email today:


1. Parking Garage Construction Begins
It's a busy time of year for everyone - from finals to holiday shopping. And, on or after December 7th construction of the new 1,300 space parking garage east of Blackford Street begins. Are you ready? Next week your parking spot may be in the construction zone. Be ready.
Eliminate some year-end stress and exchange your current permit for one in the Vermont Garage or at the Indiana Avenue lot. Visit the website below to learn more about your parking options.

Link: http://www.parking.iupui.edu

New Senior Apartments coming to Lafayette Road: http://www.indystar.com/article/20091208/BUSINESS04/912080322/Senior-housing-complex-planned-for-Lafayette-Road

Generic design, but it is better than what is there...can't be much worse...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=2333+lafayette+road,+indianapolis,+in&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=48.15347,78.574219&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=2333+Lafayette+Rd,+Indianapolis,+Marion,+Indiana+46222&ll=39.799228,-86.20989&spn=0.011491,0.019183&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=39.799152,-86.209809&panoid=cnanWwm1WWcDMt52zEs5TA&cbp=12,64.75,,0,-0.54

Espn radio was ripping the city last night. The General Managers meetings are going on and the host could not stop it with the cold of Indianapolis and some talk of there is nothing to do. I disagree with the nothing to do thing.

Haters gonna hate.

New Senior Apartments coming to Lafayette Road

Its about time some indy development is moved to other areas of the city (than downtown and near north). I would really love to see that area come back. This is a step in the right direction towards densifying our city. Now, if only similar projects would occur out on east Washington. I really think more of this development will happen since the prices are falsely inflated within the interstate/river loop as well as anywhere north of downtown. A good day for a part of town that has seen better days! :cucumber:

BTW...the rendering is not for this site, it is for a project that was built a few years ago at stones crossing in greenwood/center grove

Its about time some indy development is moved to other areas of the city (than downtown and near north). I would really love to see that area come back. This is a step in the right direction towards densifying our city. Now, if only similar projects would occur out on east Washington. I really think more of this development will happen since the prices are falsely inflated within the interstate/river loop as well as anywhere north of downtown. A good day for a part of town that has seen better days! :cucumber:

BTW...the rendering is not for this site, it is for a project that was built a few years ago at stones crossing in greenwood/center grove

Ha! I had no idea. Thanks for the info.

Espn radio was ripping the city last night. The General Managers meetings are going on and the host could not stop it with the cold of Indianapolis

It's funny, die-hard football fans talk about the necessity of "the elements" for the game, that real teams should be able to play outdoors in any weather.

It's funny, die-hard football fans talk about the necessity of "the elements" for the game, that real teams should be able to play outdoors in any weather.


Pretty sure its Baseball GM's.

MLB Network has been pretty positive about the city. Lots of bumper shots of downtown, &c.

ESPN is the TMZ of sports and can be ignored.

BTW...the rendering is not for this site, it is for a project that was built a few years ago at stones crossing in greenwood/center grove

It wouldn't matter. Herman & Kittle developments pretty much all look the same. Not unlike the old Justus and Glick communities from the 60's and 70's. I'm sure there is some economy of scale at work; they've built the same building dozens of times, so they know what it costs to build and maintain.

This is a step in the right direction towards densifying our city. Now, if only similar projects would occur out on east Washington.

I'm not sure what part of east Washington you're talking about; the neighborhoods and census tracts east of the inner loop along Washington are some of the most densely-populated in the city. Washington itself is lined with apartment buildings of the same density as this H&K project between the Belt RR and Irvington; quite a few of them have already been rehabbed.

^^ There's that two mile or so section from around State St out to the Belt RR and then also from around Shadeland - running east to the Washington Park mall area. Lots of vacant businesses or abandoned lots that could benefit from a higher intensity transit route to help attract higher densities and infill development / redevelopment.

http://tripplanner.indygo.net/

Beta trip planner from IndyGo! Great to see this, can't wait to see GPS tracking!

^^ There's that two mile or so section from around State St out to the Belt RR and then also from around Shadeland - running east to the Washington Park mall area. Lots of vacant businesses or abandoned lots that could benefit from a higher intensity transit route to help attract higher densities and infill development / redevelopment.

I understand your point. There's a lot of industrial "stuff" and former industrial stuff in that stretch, then it gives way to the Walgreens/fast food cluster around LaSalle.

It would be nice to redevelop the old Crown Laundry just east of Rural and the old Mallory building as some kind of residential, but I'd be willing to bet that those properties and many others on the south side of Washington couldn't meet residential environmental cleanup standards.

http://tripplanner.indygo.net/

Beta trip planner from IndyGo! Great to see this, can't wait to see GPS tracking!

I was pretty excited to just see the http://www.wheresindygo.com/ site the other day. THAT was pretty neat I thought

I was pretty excited to just see the http://www.wheresindygo.com/ site the other day. THAT was pretty neat I thought

I use WIIG for all my bus schedule needs, great site and it has an iPhone/mobile version.. it has increased my bus riding greatly!

IndyGo needs to understand that everything they put out to the public doesn't need to be ugly.

The trip planner is horribly designed. However, it's great to see IndyGo show progress.

Pretty sure its Baseball GM's.

Oops, thanks! I forgot about their meeting here. I'm always in Superbowl 2012 mode.

anyone know what the deal was at Delaware & market about 10am? ton of cops, fire and ambulance vehicles.

From WTHR:

Indy Parks Foundation gets $7.3M from Lilly Endowment

Indianapolis - The Lilly Endowment has donated $7.3 million to the Indianapolis Parks Foundation, the single largest donation in the foundation's 20-year history.

The funds will be used mainly for capital projects that serve low-income residents.

Projects on the to-do list are a new pool at Bethel Park and improvements to the Riverside Aquatic Center.

anyone know what the deal was at Delaware & market about 10am? ton of cops, fire and ambulance vehicles.
Noon news said a guy was stuck in an elevator in the Indiana Parking Garage on Market. His coat somehow got stuck in the elevator. They said he was taken to Methodist and appears to be fine.

Wish we could have done something like this with our sales tax increase....instead, we built the Luke and are going in the hole. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1020605

Well --- most of those things - we already have in Indy - or are currently putting them in. Central park -- we have WRSP and the canal; bikeways and trails -- we have our excellent and improving greenways network, new and soon to be more bike lanes, and the under construction Cultural Trail; We have a much better and larger convention center along with the attached Lucas Oil Stadium than what they are planning; rowing facility - we have that at Eagle Creek along with many other world class athletic facilities throughout the County; improved sidewalks - we could use more of those - although there has been a focus on making more improvements in that area here lately; health and fitness facilities (for seniors) - I don't know --- we have lots of parks and a variety of fitness facilities - I don't know if we have enough for our seniors - can't say that I've heard lots of complaints that we are short on these types of facilities (btw, Lilly announced just today that they are helping in this area by providing $7.3 million to Indy Parks to help build and maintain recreational facilities at local parks); improvements to the State Fairgrounds -- There have been many improvements to the State Fairgrounds here over the past decade or two - its looking pretty good now - and is in much better shape than it was ten years ago.

The one big difference is that they are proposing to spend money on a 5 - 6 mile streetcar line. That type of thing - improved rapid transit - is one of Indy's biggest needs right now. That's what will be interesting. From the notes earlier in the Indy thread on light rail - it sounds like we will be hearing more about local plans soon. Then we may have an opportunity to figure out how to pay for the new transit plans.

That's where you may have a good point --- should the $950 million being spent on LOS and Conv Center expansion have been spent on improved transit instead? I believe the Convention Center / LOS investments are good. Yes - the CIB is not bringing in enough money right now to cover its costs -- but this has been a terrible past two years economically - and the revenue needed to pay for the CIB debt depends on expanded convention business and more filled hotel rooms. When the expansion is finished in early 2011 and the 1600 new rooms are available at the Marriott complex - and the economy is doing better - Indy will be in excellent shape to take advantage of strong growth in our tourism and convention industry. The growth will make a huge impact on the income going to pay off the CIB debt. I believe by 2012 - 2013 -- the revenue coming in will be fully covering the CIB debt payments - and our city will be doing well and growing. I'm sure very few - if any - other major convention expansions around the country are moving forward in this climate - particularly in coordination with 1600 new hotel rooms under construction. We'll be pulling away in the competition for convention business from all of those cities that have not been able to move forward with their Conv. Center expansions.

Significant transit improvements are definitely needed too. I have a very strong feeling that that will be the next major focus area for Indianapolis and the Central Indiana region. Looking forward to moving forward with this next big project for Indianapolis!

The one big difference is that they are proposing to spend money on a 5 - 6 mile streetcar line. That type of thing - improved rapid transit - is one of Indy's biggest needs right now. That's what will be interesting. From the notes earlier in the Indy thread on light rail - it sounds like we will be hearing more about local plans soon. Then we may have an opportunity to figure out how to pay for the new transit plans.



Street cars are nice..Portland Or has some..but there's 1 major difference when compared to light rail on a dedicated line; they tend to be extremely slow. While in DT Portland I literally out walked a street car line. Don't get me wrong, its a nice option to have (and it would be nice if Indy still had theirs in place) but I don't know how much a short street car line like this would improve the transportation system of any city. Honestly I'd take a fully funded bus system with shorter 15-20 min lead times any day over a line like this one.

I am impressed that the voters of Ok city decided to fund public transportation though. Its a good step for their city and something to build on.

Street cars are nice..Portland Or has some..but there's 1 major difference when compared to light rail on a dedicated line; they tend to be extremely slow. While in DT Portland I literally out walked a street car line. Don't get me wrong, its a nice option to have (and it would be nice if Indy still had theirs in place) but I don't know how much a short street car line like this would improve the transportation system of any city. Honestly I'd take a fully funded bus system with shorter 15-20 min lead times any day over a line like this one.

I am impressed that the voters of Ok city decided to fund public transportation though. Its a good step for their city and something to build on.

I agree with your comments about the general speed (or lack thereof) of mass transit in Portland's central city. It is very slow going on the streetcars and light rail when it runs through the central city (though, outside of the central city the light rail runs at a good speed, except for a few inexplicably slow segments). I can appreciate that if one is carrying groceries or small children, or frail and elderly or disabled, then these transit options are helpful, although a good bus system (which Portland also has) would serve these types of passengers just as well (and perhaps even better due to the greater flexibility that bus routes offer). The past few times we have been to Portland, we have always had a wonderful time. However, we have rarely used the street cars or the light rail. The exceptions were making the round-trip on the light rail between the airport and downtown, and taking the streetcar from the Pearl District to the new South Waterfront District (there isn't a good pedestrian pathway going the entire long distance between those two points). Even though we covered many miles per day each trip, including going across town, it almost always seemed faster and easier to simply walk, rather than bother with the street car or the light rail. (Don't misunderstand my comments, we have tried to make greater use of the light rail and the streetcar systems, but we found that between the long waits and the VERY slow speed of the trains throughout the central city, it simply didn't make sense for us to generally bother with using either system).

I wonder if Portland might have been better off only building a single light rail line between its airport and downtown and using the several hundred million dollars it has spent on other light rail and street car projects instead on improving and expanding its bus system and expanding and improving pedestrian walkways (including traditional sidewalks, which I did notice where in need of repair in a few areas, despite the fact that Portland generally has a well-deserved reputation for beautiful and well-maintained public spaces).

Nonetheless, I believe both streetcar and light rail systems can offer effective forms of mass transit; although, I firmly believe a good bus systems must always be the foundation of any effective public transit system. Also, I think Indianapolis should learn from Portland's experience about where streetcar and light rail lines work well, and where they do not. An express (i.e. fast and with very limited stops) light rail line between the airport and downtown Indianapolis could be very successful. Also, I think a cross-town express streetcar line making limited stops at key points downtown (e.g. the Zoo, IUPUI, Circle Center and Mass Ave) and traveling on its own raised street median could be successful, too.

Started putting up fence for the California street garage. It looks like they are indeed going to straddle north street but by how much, who knows. The fence goes over north by about a parking space deep.

You can see it here:
http://www.hustonstreetracing.com/gallery2/images/cal_garage_1.jpg

Looking south
http://www.hustonstreetracing.com/gallery2/images/cal_garage_2.jpg

The Indianapolis Regional Center Design Guidelines, a joint project of the City of Indianapolis, the College of Architecture and Planning Indianapolis Center, and the Historic Landmark Foundation of Indiana’s Urban Design Oversight Committee, has won the 2010 National Planning Excellence Award for a Best Practice. The award, considered to be the most prestigious in the planning profession, will be presented at the 2010 National Planning Conference in New Orleans on April 12, 2010.

The guidelines are an implementation tool called for by the previously adopted Regional Center Plan 2020 and, for the first time since the Regional Center zoning district was established decades ago, provide a community standard for urban design in the downtown area. Designed to promote creativity, diversity, and local heritage, the guidelines are intended to protect stakeholder investments by maintaining downtown Indianapolis as an efficient, sustainable, and vital place to live, work, and spend free time. The written guidelines provide a valuable resource on the goals of the city for developers, architects, other designers, and staff. The guidelines also provide, for the first time, an opportunity for public comment on significant investments in the Regional Center.

Numerous and former CAP faculty and staff, including Scott Truex, Brad Beaubien, Adam Thies, and Harry Eggink, as well as graduate students Matt O’Rourke, Nathan Schmidt, Sarah Chiemelak, Carmen Lethig, Jeff Luenberger, Erin Brown, and Emily Rosendall, worked on this project. The project was also a recipient of a 2009 Hoosier Planning Award from the Indiana Chapter of the American Planning Association.

Complete information about the National Planning Awards can be found at http://www.planning.org/awards/2010/ .

^^

The plan: http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/Planning/Docs/Other/rc_design_guidelines_final_web.pdf

The RC Ordinance & Design Guidelines certainly make context-sensitive urban redevelopment easier to promote and enforce. I know and have worked with several of the people cited, and congratulate them on a job well done. The guidelines take some time to learn, but they are comprehensive and useful.

The Downtown Athenaeum (401 E. Michigan St., 1894) received a $2,500 grant from the Historic Landmarks Foundation of Indiana for urgent masonry restoration.

Also, the Holy Trinity Catholic Church in the Haughville neighborhood received a $4,000 grant for masony restoration which it will use for the Bockhold Hall, a parish center built in 1927 (902 N. Holmes Ave.)

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091211/LOCAL/912110411/Athenaeum-to-get-masonry-touch-up

Hey, What is Portland like downtown? It looks small by pictures I have seen. Heard a Bulls game a couple weeks ago, and they said there are alot of homeless people downtown. Anyway, I am just trying understand street cars and other forms from other cities to Indianapolis. Indy is getting bigger and will spread out and the transportation system should be carefully planned for how the city will probably be in 20-30 years from now.

Hey, What is Portland like downtown? It looks small by pictures I have seen. Heard a Bulls game a couple weeks ago, and they said there are alot of homeless people downtown.


Its okay. Probably a little smaller than DT Indy. There does seem to be more homeless people but that might just be a product of their mild climate (at least compared to Indy). Much more aggressive with panhandling too. I remember they had a light rail stop right outside the Blazers arena..I thought that was mighty convenient. And they do have a lot of condo development in DT area. But what impressed me about the city was the neighborhoods surrounding downtown. Obviously there's a lot of people who live and move there to live in the city vs the suburbs. In short urban is not a 4 letter word like it is here. The sustainability of it all makes many cities envious.

As near as I can tell, the region center design guidelines are merely another layer of regulations on top of the already multiple and botched layers we already have. Unless they replace the underlying problems with zoning, etc., it's just going to make it even harder to do business in Indy.

"So Toad Daniels is going to cut $150 million in higher education funding despite the state sitting on a BILLION dollar surplus."

You see, too many Americans think like this, and that is why most Americans have little to no wealth. Indiana, as a state, is 600 million short of projected revenues, just since July. Fortunately, we have a Gov. that is being PROACTIVE, and cutting expenditures while we still have a little money in the bank.

I suppose he could have waited until that billion dollars was exhausted, and then driven the state into insolvency, but then he would have been like virtually every other Gov. I, for one, am glad we have a fiscally responsible Gov.

What is the purpose of the surplus if not to use it? Why does it even exist?

Spending your savings account to avoid painful cuts only delays the day of reckoning and causes big problems down the road. Better to make tough choices sooner rather than later.

The recession isn't going to occur forever. The economy will rebound, employment will rise, and tax receipts will increase. The state can then build up a reserve fund when the economy is doing well and spend it during the next inevitable recession.

The colleges have demonstrated ability to raise funds independently.

Yes, by raising tuition and making themselves as expensive as many private schools.

Espn radio was ripping the city last night. The General Managers meetings are going on and the host could not stop it with the cold of Indianapolis and some talk of there is nothing to do. I disagree with the nothing to do thing.

Fuck them. If those idiots said there is nothing to do in DT Indy then they aren't even trying to look.

Media people must be the biggest bunch of ADD pussies on the face of the Earth. They bitch and moan if the weather isn't perfect and don't have constant stimulation.

What matters is what the BASEBALL people thought of the city. As I recall, Las Vegas was criticized last year for having the meetings in venues too far apart. Well, in Indy all the meetings were in venues that were right next to one another.

Indianapolis has seen a bunch of investment and major projects over the last thirty or so years. Oklahoma City is getting a new convention center, so is Indianapolis. The only enviable aspect of that new sales tax passed in OKC is the streetcar system it will produce. Indy already has everything else.

That's what I said --- although you did it in about 1/10th the # of words! :)

Fuck them. If those idiots said there is nothing to do in DT Indy then they aren't even trying to look.

Media people must be the biggest bunch of ADD pussies on the face of the Earth. They bitch and moan if the weather isn't perfect and don't have constant stimulation.

What matters is what the BASEBALL people thought of the city. As I recall, Las Vegas was criticized last year for having the meetings in venues too far apart. Well, in Indy all the meetings were in venues that were right next to one another.

J. Hood was doing a baseball show yesterday am, and said there is a reason why it is called Naptown. He thought the general managers would get alot done since they should all be staying in the hotel and not going anywhere, from what I was gathering on his dislike of Indy.

J. Hood was doing a baseball show yesterday am, and said there is a reason why it is called Naptown. He thought the general managers would get alot done since they should all be staying in the hotel and not going anywhere, from what I was gathering on his dislike of Indy.

1) Isn't Jonathan Hood from Chicago?

2) The GMs are supposed to stay in the hotels and not go anywhere. The Winter Meetings aren't a golf junket, and they don't get together to socialize.

Classy guy, obviously. I'm glad those Chicago folks can't find anything to complain about in Chicago -- so they get to feel big by trying to point out problems they see in other places. Of course -- can you imagine if this were held at McCormick Place? There's nothing to do for a mile around that place -- except for the planetarium, aquarium and science museum. He obviously is a social dweeb if he can't manage to find anything to do near Indy's convention center. Blues bars, strip bars, country bars, "VIP" lounge bars, karaoke bars, piano bars, dance bars, sports bars, etc. He's probably just taking out his remaining anger from that one football game, back in early Feb. of '07. Oh well ---- probably should talk about something a little more related to development on this thread.

The Indianapolis Regional Center Design Guidelines, a joint project of the City of Indianapolis, the College of Architecture and Planning Indianapolis Center, and the Historic Landmark Foundation of Indiana’s Urban Design Oversight Committee, has won the 2010 National Planning Excellence Award for a Best Practice. The award, considered to be the most prestigious in the planning profession, will be presented at the 2010 National Planning Conference in New Orleans on April 12, 2010.

The guidelines are an implementation tool called for by the previously adopted Regional Center Plan 2020 and, for the first time since the Regional Center zoning district was established decades ago, provide a community standard for urban design in the downtown area. Designed to promote creativity, diversity, and local heritage, the guidelines are intended to protect stakeholder investments by maintaining downtown Indianapolis as an efficient, sustainable, and vital place to live, work, and spend free time. The written guidelines provide a valuable resource on the goals of the city for developers, architects, other designers, and staff. The guidelines also provide, for the first time, an opportunity for public comment on significant investments in the Regional Center.

Numerous and former CAP faculty and staff, including Scott Truex, Brad Beaubien, Adam Thies, and Harry Eggink, as well as graduate students Matt O’Rourke, Nathan Schmidt, Sarah Chiemelak, Carmen Lethig, Jeff Luenberger, Erin Brown, and Emily Rosendall, worked on this project. The project was also a recipient of a 2009 Hoosier Planning Award from the Indiana Chapter of the American Planning Association.

Complete information about the National Planning Awards can be found at http://www.planning.org/awards/2010/ .

But yet the project at Capitol & St. Clair, which does nothing to address the corner, presumably because of the need to have an attached garage directly attached to each dwelling unit, gets approved? Do the awards consider the implementation of plans, or just their potential?

But yet the project at Capitol & St. Clair, which does nothing to address the corner, presumably because of the need to have an attached garage directly attached to each dwelling unit, gets approved? Do the awards consider the implementation of plans, or just their potential?

And another one, how about the latest Waverly building at the corner of East & Georgia, which will not only have a parking garage on the first level, which contradicts the plan, but won't even have a simple pedestrian-entrance anywhere along the 200+ foot frontage of the building that is built right up to East Street?

This is actually the be entry into downtown already. This project should make it even nicer.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091214/LOCAL/912140348/-1/ARCHIVE/Project-aims-to-spruce-up-a-prime-gateway-to-Indy

Project aims to spruce up a prime gateway to Indy
Civic leaders are asking corporations to join effort to beautify I-70 from airport to Downtown
By Josh Duke
Posted: December 14, 2009

For three decades, Indianapolis' civic and government leaders have shared their frustration about one of the city's main gateways: I-70 between Indianapolis International Airport and Downtown.

Next year, they will finally do something about it.

A beautification plan, led by a massive public-private partnership, will begin to take shape along five I-70 interchanges.

The project, combining art and nature, will serve as a front door to the city, greeting millions of visitors every year, including those coming to town for the 2012 Super Bowl.

"Beauty matters. That is why we landscape our front yards. It signifies who we are, how we feel and what people think about us," said David Forsell, president of Keep Indianapolis Beautiful.

"We have a great airport and a wonderful city that is dynamic, growing and vibrant, but getting between here and there isn't what any of us would want or expect."

Eli Lilly and Co. donated $1 million and partnered with Keep Indianapolis Beautiful and the Indiana Department of Transportation to secure a $1 million match through a federal transportation enhancement grant to get the project started.

With design work under way, civic leaders are calling on local corporations to step up to sponsor portions of interchanges. The sponsorships include a $60,000 commitment over three years or an $80,000 commitment over five years. Each sponsor will be recognized with a sponsor sign amid the landscaping.

"Lilly recognizes that we are one company, so some initiatives are too large for one company to do," said Lilly spokeswoman Carole Puls. "So we try to be a catalyst for initiatives like this and hope we can encourage other companies to become involved."

Lilly volunteers worked on the Holt Road interchange earlier this year during their Global Day of Service as a primer for next year's improvements.

Enhancements to that interchange continue Tuesday with the initial installation of artwork by Kathryn Armstrong, a graduate student at Herron School of Art and Design, IUPUI. Her 34-piece artwork, titled "Going Home," was chosen over six other concepts by a group of local art experts.

The other interchange improvements will occur Oct. 7. A daylong closure of I-70 will allow thousands of mostly Lilly workers to plant 1,600 trees and 50,000 to 100,000 native plants to improve the Sam Jones Expressway, Harding Street, West Street and Meridian/Illinois/McCarty interchanges.

Artwork likely will be installed later at a couple of interchanges, Forsell said.

Though the project began before the city was awarded the Super Bowl, that announcement became a catalyst in getting more people motivated and interested in making the improvements, Forsell admitted.

"Our commitment to these interchanges goes far beyond the Super Bowl," he said. "We hope the concept expands further within this community, state and even the country."

I have always thought the stretch of I-70 from IND to DT was not very good on the eyes...doesn't help that the highway cuts thru one of the most "hillbilly" parts of Marion County.

Yes, by raising tuition and making themselves as expensive as many private schools.

Not by a long shot. Full cost (tuition, fees, room & board) at a state university in Indiana doesn't even get close to tuition alone at a typical private college of similar national reputation. Compare Purdue with Rose-Hulman. Compare IU with Notre Dame.

I was referring to the major capital campaigns that IU, Purdue, and Ball State have each undertaken in the past few years. I don't think we (taxpayers of the state) should give those schools anything for buildings for which they will sell the naming rights to large donors.

And my notion for operating support is that the best avenue is directly through in-state scholarships, not massive payments into the schools' general operating funds.

I have always thought the stretch of I-70 from IND to DT was not very good on the eyes...doesn't help that the highway cuts thru one of the most "hillbilly" parts of Marion County.

I like it because I-70 has the best view of the skyline. Also, that stretch of I-70 is the only interior approach to downtown from I-465 that has continuous lighting. (I-70 on the east side now has it, but with massive, ugly high mast towers). Also, it is almost continuously elevated, giving it an "urban feel" and giving you a view of the city, and has some nice cool, gritty industrial decay.

I-65 from the south is almost entirely rural/suburban until you are right on top of downtown. I-65 from the north has a similar feel for much of its length (Lafayette Square anyone) and lacks good skyline views. (The stretch of I-65 through Eagle Creek Park is the best part of the Indy interstate system and what we should strived to do for all of it - just like Atlanta did with its tree program). I-70 from the east isn't bad, but changes elevations a lot, has a somewhat less interesting skyline view, and doesn't have that great of surroundings itself.

As near as I can tell, the region center design guidelines are merely another layer of regulations on top of the already multiple and botched layers we already have. Unless they replace the underlying problems with zoning, etc., it's just going to make it even harder to do business in Indy.

The issues are always on the fringes. What I mean by this:

Most of the Mile Square core of downtown has CBD zoning, which is a mixed-use, 100% lot coverage, height almost unlimited, build to the ROW classification. As one gets away from the Mile Square, zoning tends to be some kind of industrial, commercial, or campus (I won't address your favorite "historical" neighborhoods north/east of the core).

The RC guidelines are mostly written as if the property is zoned CBD, and where that's actually true, they are really the only significant hoop a developer must jump through. Where the property is not so zoned, there are some conflicts between the underlying zoning classification and the RC Ordinance and guidelines. So on the fringes of downtown we end up with lots of surface parking and drive-thru uses that are tough to reconcile with the Guidelines. (See your favorite White Castle-Arby's-Subway strip on South Street.)

The simple solution would be to rezone the whole Regional Center area to CBD or Campus classifications, although I'd just as soon do without the manicured lawns and surface lots of the various Campus-zoned office parks around downtown (IUPUI, Wishard, Ivy Tech, Lilly, State Government Complex, NCAA, etc.).

The stretch of I-65 through Eagle Creek Park is the best part of the Indy interstate system and what we should strived to do for all of it - just like Atlanta did with its tree program.

I just drove diagonally across North Carolina over Thanksgiving on a number of different highway segments. Many of the rural and suburban interchanges are landscaped with decorative plantings of flowering or fall-coloring trees, whether on a designated Interstate or Interstate-grade US Hwy.

What ever happened to the I 65 "gateway"?

This giant hoop structure that was going to go over I65 exit at West Street and 10th...

http://chicago.ibj.com/repository/ibj/2007/01/01/1/Img/Pc0010400.jpg

I remember that it was somehow connected to rebuilding and or changing the entire traffic flow around 10th and West street. It has been a long time so I think the gateway part of the project probably died. Any one know what happened?

http://www.bsu.edu/capic/gateways/

What ever happened to the I 65 "gateway"?

This giant hoop structure that was going to go over I65 exit at West Street and 10th...

It has been a long time so I think the gateway part of the project probably died.

We can only hope.

What ever happened to the I 65 "gateway"?

This giant hoop structure that was going to go over I65 exit at West Street and 10th...

I remember that it was somehow connected to rebuilding and or changing the entire traffic flow around 10th and West street. It has been a long time so I think the gateway part of the project probably died. Any one know what happened?

http://www.bsu.edu/capic/gateways/
I always had the impression that the Circle Truss was an aspirational project, the interchange redesign in particular. That was clearly never going to happen without INDOT being on board and, even if money was no object, I could never see them approving that design. The truss itself was the winner of a design competition; funding construction of the design was a separate deal. The winner was announced right around when the economy started going in the crapper, so I'm guessing this is on the back burner for now, perhaps forever. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

34 North at Meridian and 34th was a pleasant surprise. Didn't even really know that was there. The back will more than likely look horrible as I believe that portion will be on stilts, but the front is mid-rise and is built right up to the sidewalk.

34 North at Meridian and 34th was a pleasant surprise. Didn't even really know that was there. The back will more than likely look horrible as I believe that portion will be on stilts, but the front is mid-rise and is built right up to the sidewalk.

Does ANYTHING in the city look nice on the alley side? Does your own home look as nice from the back as from the front? Few do.

Does ANYTHING in the city look nice on the alley side? Does your own home look as nice from the back as from the front? Few do.

34th street isn't an alley

They are replacing most of the street access stairs and ramps along with a few of the bridges along the canal. Wasn't before they needed it.

34th street isn't an alley

The back of this building does not face 34th street.

1) Isn't Jonathan Hood from Chicago?

2) The GMs are supposed to stay in the hotels and not go anywhere. The Winter Meetings aren't a golf junket, and they don't get together to socialize.

Probably some second city-3rd city thing Chicagoans have to prove the city and the state of Illinois all the time. Even most states are hick states with only farms and nothing to do towns to these chicago radio people. Glad that Illinois is such a thriving metropolis at every corner of the state.

1) Isn't Jonathan Hood from Chicago?

2) The GMs are supposed to stay in the hotels and not go anywhere. The Winter Meetings aren't a golf junket, and they don't get together to socialize.

Yes he is. This is ESPN from Chicago, since I am outside of Chicago. Just about any subject he gets about Indy he will slam the city. Actually very few cities and states are worth anything to most Chicago radio people I hear. But he thinks that the GM's should have something more to do than just meetings. Since apparantly there is nothing to do in Indy, the GM's should have got quite abit done. Enough said on this topic.

I just drove diagonally across North Carolina over Thanksgiving on a number of different highway segments. Many of the rural and suburban interchanges are landscaped with decorative plantings of flowering or fall-coloring trees, whether on a designated Interstate or Interstate-grade US Hwy.

That's because North Carolina is obsessed with roadway landscaping. I've lived here for two years now and I'm still blown away by the amount of maintenance that goes on for that shrubbery. The amount of time and money spent on upkeep must be astoundingly gigantic when you factor in all the landscaped roadways throughout the state. One thing's for sure though, it makes for a pretty drive no matter what.

I think I heard once that North Carolina uses lottery money for their roadway landscaping? It's all very nicely done.

The back of this building does not face 34th street.

It faces Salem Street, which also is not an alley. I'm interested to see how it does look.

The issues are always on the fringes. What I mean by this:

Most of the Mile Square core of downtown has CBD zoning, which is a mixed-use, 100% lot coverage, height almost unlimited, build to the ROW classification. As one gets away from the Mile Square, zoning tends to be some kind of industrial, commercial, or campus (I won't address your favorite "historical" neighborhoods north/east of the core).

The RC guidelines are mostly written as if the property is zoned CBD, and where that's actually true, they are really the only significant hoop a developer must jump through. Where the property is not so zoned, there are some conflicts between the underlying zoning classification and the RC Ordinance and guidelines. So on the fringes of downtown we end up with lots of surface parking and drive-thru uses that are tough to reconcile with the Guidelines. (See your favorite White Castle-Arby's-Subway strip on South Street.)

The simple solution would be to rezone the whole Regional Center area to CBD or Campus classifications, although I'd just as soon do without the manicured lawns and surface lots of the various Campus-zoned office parks around downtown (IUPUI, Wishard, Ivy Tech, Lilly, State Government Complex, NCAA, etc.).

I don't believe the appearance of the IUPUI campus, State Govt. complex, Ivy Tech & White River State Park has anything to do with zoning. The State exempts itself from such local regulations since such power is derived from the State.

Yes he is. This is ESPN from Chicago, since I am outside of Chicago. Just about any subject he gets about Indy he will slam the city. Actually very few cities and states are worth anything to most Chicago radio people I hear. But he thinks that the GM's should have something more to do than just meetings. Since apparantly there is nothing to do in Indy, the GM's should have got quite abit done. Enough said on this topic.

Indy is the city Chicago loves to hate. That's because it's insecure and harbors a dirty little secret. Chicago is Indianapolis. See, Indy says, "We've got a lot of big city amenities at a very low cost and a great, easy quality of life". Chicago says, "We've got most of what they've got in New York at a fraction of the cost - and oh, how much more livable." The same exact value proposition at a different position in the spectrum. Now that we've established what you are....

Chicago is the place you go when you don't want to man up and move to New York. Then you spend a lifetime justifying it with endless boosterism and staring down at your neighbors.

Good press for the IndyGO Green Line
http://www.indystar.com/article/20091215/BUSINESS/912150319/Green-Line-drives-rider-growth-for-IndyGo

I don't believe the appearance of the IUPUI campus, State Govt. complex, Ivy Tech & White River State Park has anything to do with zoning. The State exempts itself from such local regulations since such power is derived from the State.

I guess you're right. I don't remember seeing notice of a Regional Center hearing for the new Ivy Tech Multimodal Facility at 28th & Illinois or for the new Wishard Hospital. I can't remember if IUPUI filed for their new garage. All three would qualify under the "high impact" provisions of the MDC rules.

Speaking of the garage, its off and running. I took this last night. Also, I talked to the project manager this morning, and they have plans for this at their office in Union Hall. He waqs very helpful on the phone in trying to help me locate an online point of reading this stuff, but he couldnt find it. Im going to go in there tomorrow hopefully, and take a look at the site plan to see what they are doing.

http://hustonstreetracing.com/gallery2/images/cal_garage_3.jpg

Also, I have emailed back and forth with the IVY tech engineer with zero results thus far. Their media person was much more helpful, but so far I havent put enough energy into tracking down the plans for the multimodal center. They exist, but I just havent rung enough bells yet. More to come on that

It faces Salem Street, which also is not an alley. I'm interested to see how it does look.

Functionally, Salem St. has become an alley between 34th & 35th. There are only two or three in-holding houses left, and I think two of them are vacant.

Renderings I saw at the time of the zoning case had the building materials (masonry) the same on all sides. I think it will look better than the typical Herman & Kittle suburban apartment building.

The mid-rise definitely fills in a void on Meridian.

I was SHOCKED at the development at 34th & Meridian! When I first moved to Indy I lived at 35th & Penn (until a murder outside of my 1st floor bedroom window, but that is a story for another time) and am so pleased to see this corner finally be developed.

Because of the Green Line, Indy actually has some of the best transit service to its airport of any peer city:

http://xingcolumbus.wordpress.com/2009/12/12/should-port-columbus-cmh-have-more-transit-service/

Functionally, Salem St. has become an alley between 34th & 35th. There are only two or three in-holding houses left, and I think two of them are vacant.

Renderings I saw at the time of the zoning case had the building materials (masonry) the same on all sides. I think it will look better than the typical Herman & Kittle suburban apartment building.

The mid-rise definitely fills in a void on Meridian.

I am glad that this is a Julian Center project. They seem to do a great job keeping their facility at 2011 N. Meridian clean and safe. I think that it will be an asset to the neighborhood.

There are too many out of state apartment building companies controlling/not caring about the maintenance of the properties between Penn and Meridian from 38th to 33rd. It seems like the Julian Center will be more apt to improve the neighborhood than neglect it.


From H&K's Website:

Under Construction
Indianapolis, Indiana-
In early June our partner, The Julian Center, broke ground on 34 North. This community will be the next step in housing for survivors of domestic abuse. Our team has begun both the rehabilitation of the former Vernon building and the new construction building.

Located near downtown Indianapolis, 34 North will consist of 71 apartment homes within two buildings.* Nineteen apartment homes will be rehabilitated in The Vernon, an existing apartment building on the site, with the remaining 52 units in the proposed new construction building on vacant land directly south of The Vernon.* The new construction building will have one-, two-, three-, and four-bedroom apartments.

This community is expected to be open to residents in the summer of 2010.

I think I heard once that North Carolina uses lottery money for their roadway landscaping? It's all very nicely done.

Not according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_carolina_lottery).

Maybe that's where they put their TE money...like Indy did with the Holt Rd. project.

Chicago is the place you go when you don't want to man up and move to New York. Then you spend a lifetime justifying it with endless boosterism and staring down at your neighbors.

But your blog says you live there?!?
http://www.urbanophile.com/bio/

Chicago is the place you go when you don't want to man up and move to New York. Then you spend a lifetime justifying it with endless boosterism and staring down at your neighbors.

That's what I've always thought about Chicago too...New York is really just in a league of its own, it's just the way it is. And like you said, to try and make themselves feel better, Chicago tries to marginalize everyone else by stating the obvious that "they're bigger." Cool. There's lots of other great cities in the midwest that are a fraction of the size and still offer the majority of things that Chicago does, in a more convenient and easy fashion. And to the surprise of a lot of Chicagoans, the people who live in most of these cities actually like it. I love being in Milwaukee, people in Indy love Indy, as goes for Minneapolis and Cincinnati. That's what I've never liked about the Chicago attitude. But no I'm not too proud to say that I like going to Chicago.

But no I'm not too proud to say that I like going to Chicago.

Me too. I don't visit very often, but always have a good time.

http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/12/brother_can_you_spare_2_billion.html

http://www.indianabarrister.com/archives/2009/12/brother_can_you_spare_2_billion.html

Definitely not good. Can't cut much more; we could use some job and income growth.

And we should probably fire whoever made the rosy forecasts at the obvious beginning of a recession; through the three recessions I've lived through in Indiana, the Legislature has always adopted a phantom balanced budget by nudging revenue projections too high.

That's what I've always thought about Chicago too...New York is really just in a league of its own, it's just the way it is. And like you said, to try and make themselves feel better, Chicago tries to marginalize everyone else by stating the obvious that "they're bigger." Cool. There's lots of other great cities in the midwest that are a fraction of the size and still offer the majority of things that Chicago does, in a more convenient and easy fashion. And to the surprise of a lot of Chicagoans, the people who live in most of these cities actually like it. I love being in Milwaukee, people in Indy love Indy, as goes for Minneapolis and Cincinnati. That's what I've never liked about the Chicago attitude. But no I'm not too proud to say that I like going to Chicago.

There definitely seems to be this childish pecking order, as Arenn and Perilouspete have noticed, where Chicago can clearly puff itself over Indy and St. Louis, but will always be a grade or two below NYC. When New Yorkers aren't sneering at Los Angeles (or Boston or Philadelphia), Chicago often becomes their hick metropolis, the capital of flyover country. Chicagoans are very touchy about this, but few seem to take the high road and would rather bully the next smallest guy. For an ESPN guy like Jonathan Hood, it's no doubt an added sore spot that Indianapolis has a better NFL team, and that the Colts are arguably even better than the Ditka-era Bears.

That said, it seems Indianapolis residents are no better at ending the cycle of preening. I can't think of how many locals here make Fort Wayne jokes. It especially seems naive when left-leaning Indy residents do this, since by most conventional measurements (however superficial they may be), Fort Wayne is a more "progressive" city than Indianapolis.

That's because North Carolina is obsessed with roadway landscaping. I've lived here for two years now and I'm still blown away by the amount of maintenance that goes on for that shrubbery. The amount of time and money spent on upkeep must be astoundingly gigantic when you factor in all the landscaped roadways throughout the state. One thing's for sure though, it makes for a pretty drive no matter what.

I'm not sure how it's funded, but Mississippi, the Magnolia State, plants magnolia trees along its interstate highways, at both interchanges and overpasses. It clusters them in particular at state lines and entryways. It's very pretty. The near total absence of billboards on the I-59 corridor is very noticeable.

I've also always been aware of the abundance of bluebonnets growing along Texas highways. While many of these may be wildflowers, some are also no doubt the residual effect of Lady Bird Johnson's beautification initiatives.

But no I'm not too proud to say that I like going to Chicago.

Same here....I love visiting Chicago. It's a great city. A world class city. No knock against Indy. It is what it is.

I am officially over the Chicago v the Midwest discussion.

Chicago is not NY or LA, but a great city none the less. Some people from Chicago have an inferiority complex that they take out on the rest of the Midwest. Those people suck. The MLB meetings in Indianapolis were successful because there is no time for people to go out anyway. If there were time to go out the managers would have been impressed with our growing city. ESPN commentators opinions are worthless. Moving on?

... the Colts are arguably even better than the Ditka-era Bears.

It's not even that arguable, if you compare the past 11 years (1999-2009) with the Ditka-coached Bears (1982-92).

The Colts ARE better: same number of Super Bowl rings, better long-term won-lost record, and more consecutive playoff appearances. Those Bears had one all-time great RB (Payton) and one all-time LB (Singletary). The Colts have had a QB (Manning), two RBs (Faulk & James), WR (Harrison), DE (Freeney).

The Colts have at least the same quality of in-conference rivals measured by recent Super Bowl wins (New England and Pittsburgh) that the Ditka Bears did (San Francisco and Dallas), and probably have had consistently better divisional opponents (Pats, Jets, Bills, and Dolphins 99-01 and Titans, Jags, and Texans since 02; the 80's and early 90's Vikes, Pack, Lions, and Bucs weren't much opposition for anyone and provided half the team's wins every year for Ditka).


That said, it seems Indianapolis residents are no better at ending the cycle of preening. I can't think of how many locals here make Fort Wayne jokes. It especially seems naive when left-leaning Indy residents do this, since by most conventional measurements (however superficial they may be), Fort Wayne is a more "progressive" city than Indianapolis.

I've heard plenty of jokes on Kokomo (mostly using the Beach Boys' song) and Terre Haute (mostly "armpit" or other anatomical references). I've drawn laughs by calling Evansville the "Capital of Western Kentucky". But I can't remember ever hearing a Fort Wayne joke in almost three decades of living in Indy.

But I can't remember ever hearing a Fort Wayne joke in almost three decades of living in Indy.

The closest I have ever heard to a Fort Wayne joke would be calling it the Fortress... and thats doesn't bear a negative connotation.

For fun, here's an old image I found on my computer showing the vision for a complete loop of the People Mover:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s289/corrnd/random/pm_extension.jpg

That's from a Biocrossroads planning document called "Framework for a Research Community" that they put together back in 2003. It doesn't seem to be available online anymore.

For fun, here's an old image I found on my computer showing the vision for a complete loop of the People Mover:



That's from a Biocrossroads planning document called "Framework for a Research Community" that they put together back in 2003. It doesn't seem to be available online anymore.


Interesting. It makes sense with the planned "research park" near stadium drive...
...

Also related to that image is this IBJ article from back in Oct. '07 that references building a new People Mover station in the Biocrossroads area. The infrastructure improvements mentioned in this article have all been put in place except for the People Mover station.

Planners paving way for Biotech
City’s life sciences corridor to get $4M in improvements
Sat. October 20 - 2007 Peter Schnitzler

http://chicago.ibj.com/repository/ibj/2007/10/22/54/Img/Pc0540300.jpg

City planners have long envisioned a hightech corridor of life sciences research buildings and businesses extending northwest of downtown to 16th Street.

Development will take decades. But Indianapolis finally is taking major steps toward its biotech dream. The city is spending $4 million on infrastructure and streetscape improvements, as well as signage identifying the area as a life sciences hub.

Private developers, and investments by nearby IUPUI, should take it from there.

“Never underestimate the power of clean concrete,” said Jim Garrard, Indianapolis’ director of economic development. “When we get the streetscapes done there, it will start generating a lot more interest.”

The $4 million will go to a range of uses, such as improving pedestrian access between the State Forensics and Life Sciences Laboratories and a Clarian People Mover rail station. The work will be paid for by federal grants and taxes the corridor is allowed to retain as a certified technology park.

Turning the area into a bustling life-sciences corridor has been in the planning stages for years. In 2003, the Central Indiana Corporate Partnership, BioCrossroads and the city commissioned New York’s Beyer Blinder Belle Architects and Planners LLP to create a “Framework for a Research Community.”

Beyer Blinder Belle, Indiana University’s master architect for more than a decade, is best known for restorations of world-famous land- marks, such as New York City’s Grand Central Terminal and Ellis Island.

It laid out its vision for Indianapolis’ corridor after studying three of the nation’s most successful life sciences research parks: Richmond, Va.’s Virginia Biotechnology Research Park; Raleigh, N.C.’s Centennial Campus; and Madison, Wis.’ University Research Park.

Beyer Blinder Belle recommended starting development at the head of the Central Canal, then moving on to the proximity of shuttered Bush Stadium and the Indianapolis Waterworks Pump Station—areas dominated by older industrial and residential buildings.

The canal’s life sciences developments now are nearly complete, thanks to investments by Indiana University and Clarian Health. They include IU’s hightech business incubator—the Emerging Technologies Center—and Clarian’s Pathology Laboratory, as well as the IU Fairbanks Hall and Clarian Education and Resource Center.

Meanwhile, property farther north stands ripe for additional development. A few parcels, such as a former site of a Lincoln Tech training center, are being actively marketed. And several significant life sciences buildings have already been erected in the area, such as the state forensics laboratories and IU’s Biotechnology Research and Training Center, both along 16th Street.

IU is contemplating what should come next, said Bill Stephan, the university’s vice president for engagement.

The university’s new president, Michael McRobbie, has said one of his top priorities is to boost life-sciences research and the ability to commercialize life-sciences discoveries.

In his inaugural address Oct. 18, McRobbie said IU is interested in building an incubator that would house fast-growing life-sciences companies that have become too large for its incubator along the canal. The university might decide to make it a multipurpose building, Stephan said, with laboratory space for research professors and administrative offices.

IU hasn’t picked a location, he said. However, the corridor flanks the north side of IUPUI’s campus, and for a decade the university has been acquiring land in the area as it came on the market.

“That is still very much a corridor that is key to the university and campus’ future,” he said. “It’s always been [our] view that was the logical extension of the campus.”

Stephan said IU has begun discussions with the city to plan the corridor. McRobbie also has launched strategic planning to determine the university’s short- and long-term life sciences needs.

As those plans crystallize over the next year, development in the corridor should gain momentum, Stephan said.

“When you’re looking at facilities development over what may be the next several decades, you don’t want to be hasty,” Stephan said. “I suspect it’s going to be a process that’s the better part of a year in the making.”

In the meantime, the city is shopping for private developers who can make the most of the public property available in the area. IBJ reported last month that the city has hired professional appraisers to assess Bush Stadium’s market value—the first step toward its demolition and redevelopment. Garrard said the city has received several inquiries about Bush Stadium since.

“We get nibbles. Interested parties float [ideas] once in a while, but nothing is solidified yet,” Garrard said. “It’s 15 acres. [So] it could be a real anchor, a nice, prominent location for someone in the life sciences industry.”

The city also owns land in the middle of the corridor where the Indianapolis Waterworks’ Pump Station sits. Because it’s responsible for 60 percent of the Indianapolis Water Co.’s capacity, the station would be costly to tinker with. And the ground surrounding it has a maze of water pipes under the grass.

Beyer Blinder Belle’s 2003 study proposes moving a few key pipes to make surrounding property more attractive for redevelopment.

Garrard said plans like those likely would have to wait until much later in the life sciences corridor’s development, as the cost would be millions of dollars.

Private developers have taken note that planning for the corridor is gaining steam, said Bill Ehret, president of Indianapolisbased Summit Realty Group. He said there’s plenty of private interest in turning planners’ life sciences vision into reality.

But the project will take a decade at bare minimum, he said.

“I think it makes a lot of sense to make that kind of development along Stadium Drive,” Ehret said, referring to an artery running diagonally through the corridor. “And if you look at what they’ve already accomplished along the canal, it is awesome. They did a lot of things right. And I anticipate they’ll do a lot of things right as they move into the northwest quadrant.”

The back of this building does not face 34th street.

The crappy carport does face 34th street as it takes up most of the lower level.

I've heard plenty of jokes on Kokomo (mostly using the Beach Boys' song) and Terre Haute (mostly "armpit" or other anatomical references). I've drawn laughs by calling Evansville the "Capital of Western Kentucky". But I can't remember ever hearing a Fort Wayne joke in almost three decades of living in Indy.

Ditto.

If they could make the people mover a bit more reliable it would be something to get excited over.
Speaking of low expectations I was at the iupui university architects office today and got a few moments to look at the prints for the cal st parking garage. You all will be disappointed to know that north st will become an entrance and exit for the garage. Doesn't look like any sort of reconnnection to west st will be happening.

Although one print shows on the grass frontage between Michigan and the current parking lot a space called "future building" which would pack that area full. However only the office coordinator was there and she couldn't answer what that might be. I took some photos I will post later. Trying to get my hands on a cad printor PDF but nthing yet

Question: Has anyone heard any update about the planning and eventual start of the training facility for the Superbowl at Tech? It seems to me that they need to start this in the next 5 to 6 months max to have it done in time with all the other surrounding improvements as well. Also how is funding going for this? I believe they needed $10 mil.

Question: Has anyone heard any update about the planning and eventual start of the training facility for the Superbowl at Tech? It seems to me that they need to start this in the next 5 to 6 months max to have it done in time with all the other surrounding improvements as well. Also how is funding going for this? I believe they needed $10 mil.
There's an article in the current Urban Times about the $20M Greater Eastside Housing Project:

http://www.urbantimesonline.com/?p=975

They're obviously lacking in detailed information at this point, but it sounds like a very promising project. The article also has a blurb about the practice facility at Tech:

As far as the much-publicized practice facility, Miles said the plan should be unveiled in the first quarter of 2010. He and Taylor praised the input the Legacy Project committee has received in two well-attended public input sessions, both in terms of what the facility would look like and how it would fit on Tech’s historic campus, and what services will be provided to serve the community.

Alright, these are crude taken with an SLR and a wide angle lens. Not exactly great for taking photos of these, but it shows what I was saying about proposed building
http://hustonstreetracing.com/gallery2/images/cal_garage_proposed.jpg

The second image is the actual site plan for the garage
http://hustonstreetracing.com/gallery2/images/cal_garage_site.jpg

If I actually get my hands on the drawings in CAD or PDF, Ill post those

As of 12/16/09

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4043/4192177630_1639b2cd0e.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2737/4191413719_e0c25ec327.jpg

I don't really understand the thinking behind why it was decided that those broken, non-matching chunks of limestone would be a good fit as the surface surrounding the fountain. Is it supposed to prevent people from walking around on the little island? I'll have to take some time and look at it more closely - to understand how you are supposed to approach it. I suppose they don't want to allow many people out on it -- because it is in-between lanes of traffic. Still -- that rough, hodge-podge of broken rock just doesn't look too good to me. It probably will be effective though at preventing cars from running into the fountain. Nice pictures!

I don't really understand the thinking behind why it was decided that those broken, non-matching chunks of limestone would be a good fit as the surface surrounding the fountain. Is it supposed to prevent people from walking around on the little island? I'll have to take some time and look at it more closely - to understand how you are supposed to approach it. I suppose they don't want to allow many people out on it -- because it is in-between lanes of traffic. Still -- that rough, hodge-podge of broken rock just doesn't look too good to me. It probably will be effective though at preventing cars from running into the fountain. Nice pictures!

Thanks! I kind of scratch my head at the use of the chunks as well, but I'm sure cars were considered heavily into the design given the history.

The crappy carport does face 34th street as it takes up most of the lower level.

Oh boy, an actual development and design issue to chew on!

"Parking under" is a really elegant solution, IMO. Our water table is so high in Indianapolis that it just isn't cost-effective to build basement parking in most smaller structures like this one. "Bathtubs" like the ones at JWMarriott and Circle Centre are expensive.

The 34/Meridian solution reduces the need for surface parking, and thus increases development density.

All the while, the development presents a midrise front to the street, without those lovely street-level grates and vents typical of enclosed parking structures.

Incidentally, very few "carports" have three stories of structure over them or a couple of dozen parking spaces, so I don't think this one really qualifies for that pejorative term.

I don't really understand the thinking behind why it was decided that those broken, non-matching chunks of limestone would be a good fit as the surface surrounding the fountain. Is it supposed to prevent people from walking around on the little island? I'll have to take some time and look at it more closely - to understand how you are supposed to approach it. I suppose they don't want to allow many people out on it -- because it is in-between lanes of traffic. Still -- that rough, hodge-podge of broken rock just doesn't look too good to me. It probably will be effective though at preventing cars from running into the fountain. Nice pictures!
Or will it launch errant cars INTO the fountain? :lol:

Ditto.

At Indiana State, the locals were Hautians back in the 1980's, from what I remember people saying. Mean college kids!

Oh boy, an actual development and design issue to chew on!

"Parking under" is a really elegant solution, IMO. Our water table is so high in Indianapolis that it just isn't cost-effective to build basement parking in most smaller structures like this one. "Bathtubs" like the ones at JWMarriott and Circle Centre are expensive.

The 34/Meridian solution reduces the need for surface parking, and thus increases development density.

All the while, the development presents a midrise front to the street, without those lovely street-level grates and vents typical of enclosed parking structures.

Incidentally, very few "carports" have three stories of structure over them or a couple of dozen parking spaces, so I don't think this one really qualifies for that pejorative term.

I've only driven by on Meridian, so I'm interested to see how it looks from 34th and from Salem, but I concur with your opinions. I didn't even notice the open space under the building as I viewed the 34th Street facade from Meridian Street.

But your blog says you live there?!?
http://www.urbanophile.com/bio/

Of course, that's why I can criticize it like that. And I am a Midwest farm boy myself after all.

At present, I'm trying to grow a pair and get moving to Manhattan, however.

Of course, that's why I can criticize it like that. And I am a Midwest farm boy myself after all.

At present, I'm trying to grow a pair and get moving to Manhattan, however.

aside from Indianapolis... I have spent more time in NYC than anywhere else. Brooklyn is much more liveable than manhattan. Check out Park slope, Bedford, or williamsburg. Pretty much anything the first few stops in BK off of the L train. Young, affordable, great neighborhoods, just far enough from the noise and unrelenting hustle of manhattan, yet just 10min away from 14th in manhattan... Maybe I'll see you there depending on where I go to grad school!

(don't get me wrong, manhattan is great!)

At Indiana State, the locals were Hautians back in the 1980's, from what I remember people saying. Mean college kids!

Even the Hautians call themselves Hautians; it's no insult.

Other memorable monikers: Terry Hut, Sin City (no longer as obvious, but still a right dirty little burg).

Evansville was the Pocket City, but the one that seems to stick with me is Fort Wayne: America's Dumbest City.

I don't really understand the thinking behind why it was decided that those broken, non-matching chunks of limestone would be a good fit as the surface surrounding the fountain. Is it supposed to prevent people from walking around on the little island?

Yes.

I don't really understand the thinking behind why it was decided that those broken, non-matching chunks of limestone would be a good fit as the surface surrounding the fountain.
Yes.

Wow. How pedestrian-friendly. And right on The Cultural Trail, too.

I'm sure there must be some abiding pedestrian-safety logic behind it, what with the jumble of streets leading through the center of Fountain Square...but it surely doesn't become MORE like Monument Circle this way.

Don't we WANT people hanging out by fountains in this city?

Wow. How pedestrian-friendly. And right on The Cultural Trail, too.

I'm sure there must be some abiding pedestrian-safety logic behind it, what with the jumble of streets leading through the center of Fountain Square...but it surely doesn't become MORE like Monument Circle this way.

Don't we WANT people hanging out by fountains in this city?

That fountain is not a pedestrian destination anymore, I'm afraid. There will also be short bollards around the base.

No one in FS is a big fan of the limestone, and a little birdy told me that even the designers themselves are having second thoughts.

Regarding pedestrian-friendly fountains, Phase 2 of the intersection's redevelopment includes a 2nd fountain and pedestrian plaza in the parking lot next to Deano's. Also, all the sidewalks will be widened and their will be bump outs. It's really going to be great, so pray that they get funding.

Wow. How pedestrian-friendly. And right on The Cultural Trail, too.

I'm sure there must be some abiding pedestrian-safety logic behind it, what with the jumble of streets leading through the center of Fountain Square...but it surely doesn't become MORE like Monument Circle this way.

Don't we WANT people hanging out by fountains in this city?

Ditto what ablerock said.

Having talked to SEND about this a few months ago, the perception is that the node created by the terminus of the Cultural Trail will more than compensate for the complete inaccessibility of the historic fountain.

I guess everyone at the Cultural Trail plaza can admire the fountain that gave the neighborhood its name from afar--across a lane of speeding traffic.

But I can't remember ever hearing a Fort Wayne joke in almost three decades of living in Indy.

No one here has heard of the pejorative "Fort Fun"?

Or the Strip Club Capital of America?

Or the notorious ranking as "America's Dumbest City" by Men's Health magazine?

When people in Indy take pot-shots at another city, the first one I hear is Fort Wayne. Undeservedly.

No one here has heard of the pejorative "Fort Fun"?

Or the Strip Club Capital of America?

Or the notorious ranking as "America's Dumbest City" by Men's Health magazine?

When people in Indy take pot-shots at another city, the first one I hear is Fort Wayne. Undeservedly.

I've heard of all of them, because I grew up there.

There are many things to like about Fort Wayne. Unfortunately, my view will always be clouded by my own upbringing in its suburbs (and my parents still live there, so when i go visit I still see nothing but Dupont and Coldwater Road's sprawl). It's not much different than our own sprawl, but I can avoid it much easier.

I keep thinking that the next time I visit I'll do some proper urban exploring, but it just never works out. Maybe we should have a SSC field trip or something.

About the fountain and just about everything new in the city... Nearly everything has some dumb detail, boring, fake whatever, beige, fire hydrants, the bottom of a tower cannot get redone or redetailed. Even a fountain has a stupid detail about it! Hope Frank Gehry stays away, I am not sure what the city would get! Sorry, had to vent..

Anyone have a picture of the new observation deck that was done at the top of Monument? I saw a picture when they dismantled it and it reminded me of what the monument looked like in its very early days. I heard the new updated observation deck was totally redone and design wise it is different as well. I have been looking for a picture of it but haven't been able so far to fine one.....

Even the Hautians call themselves Hautians; it's no insult.

Other memorable monikers: Terry Hut, Sin City (no longer as obvious, but still a right dirty little burg).

Evansville was the Pocket City, but the one that seems to stick with me is Fort Wayne: America's Dumbest City.

I could not remember exactly what the locals thought at the time, thanks.

In nearly twenty years of living here, I've never heard anyone take a shot at Fort Wayne. Come to think of it, any city in Indiana sans Gary for that matter.

^^ Yes -- it seems the only one on here who has heard negative comments from Indy folks about Ft. Wayne is AmericanDirt. And you're the one trying to say that we shouldn't say negative things about Ft. Wayne. Maybe if you would quit posting your negative nicknames for Ft. Wayne -- we wouldn't have any to see.

No one here has heard of the pejorative "Fort Fun"?

Or the Strip Club Capital of America?

Or the notorious ranking as "America's Dumbest City" by Men's Health magazine?

When people in Indy take pot-shots at another city, the first one I hear is Fort Wayne. Undeservedly.

I'm sorry, but I think you are living on another planet. I have both friends and a few family members in Fort Wayne, and quite honestly NO ONE in Indianapolis even thinks of Fort Wayne. It has no reputation among most people in Indianapolis. It simply is the second largest city in the state, and that is about the only thing people living in Indianapolis would think about if you brought it up.

Also, all those little nicknames are bizarre and no one uses them. As for what Men's Health said, please tell me how something that a fitness magazine in New York City supposedly wrote about Fort Wayne has any bearing on what people in Indianapolis generally think about the city? (There is almost no relevance).

You seem to have a real inferiority complex about your hometown--get over it. There's nothing wrong with it, and people from Indianapolis don't talk about it.

When it comes to making fun of places, I also have not heard much if any put downs of Ft. Wayne. Also, when it comes to insults of other places in Indiana, I find the tone to be one that has the implication of good natured ribbing more so than true contempt. For example, the Bob and Tom skit "My town, Brownsburg" or references to "Nobletucky". While there is some put down, there's also a recognition that the person making the insult contains more than a few of the mocked character traits himself. Only Northwest Indiana - which has the connotation of Chicago - is different.

Our friend "hoosier" excepted from the above of course.

anyone know anything about the commercial bldg demolished at south and Alabama? it was being demo'd today around noon.. is Lilly turning this into more parking lot?

also, the old factory at mccarty & kentucky ave, seems like pretty ripe space for future development, it's almost demolished as well..

dp

"Fort Fun" certainly isn't made up. I've also heard "Fort Waste" and "Fort Cane" (the latter in reference to FW's supposed signficance in the cocaine trade because of its central location between Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, and Indy--I have no idea if this is fact or legend, but I have heard the nickname). The strip club thing has been noted as well, although I have mostly heard it as a point of perverse pride from Fort Wayne residents.

I've never been a huge fan of Fort Wayne, but I agree with those that there is no pattern of insults analogous to the Chicago-Indy issue. But these names certainly aren't made up, and jabs along these lines weren't uncommon when I was a student at IU.

It's interesting. The Indy MSA is about 20 percent the size of the Chicago MSA. The Fort Wayne MSA is about 20 percent the size of Indy. The difference, I think, is that Indy is sufficiently major that it can compete with Chicago in ways that Fort Wayne can’t compete with Indy. That’s not to say that Chicago is threatened by Indy in any sense, but Indy is more visible to Chicago than FW is to Indy. Indy can do things such as steal the Big Ten Tournament or beat the Bears in the Super Bowl that FW can’t do to Indy. I realize that the condescension far predates those two events, but I think it intensifies it a bit, sort of a “who does this crappy little city think it is?” dynamic.

Ditto what ablerock said.

Having talked to SEND about this a few months ago, the perception is that the node created by the terminus of the Cultural Trail will more than compensate for the complete inaccessibility of the historic fountain.

I guess everyone at the Cultural Trail plaza can admire the fountain that gave the neighborhood its name from afar--across a lane of speeding traffic.

My whole point: Seems as if an opportunity was missed to create the second of "A Hundred Monument Circles" in the best possible place.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091221/LOCAL/91221029/Downtown-worker-robbed-car-stolen

Just like the Monon, Downtown Indy should be closed. That place is too dangerous; and throwing taxes at it is like baking a birthday cake for a dead dog. :bash: :ohno: :bash:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20091221/LOCAL/91221029/Downtown-worker-robbed-car-stolen

Just like the Monon, Downtown Indy should be closed. That place is too dangerous; and throwing taxes at it is like baking a birthday cake for a dead dog. :bash: :ohno: :bash:
It is embarrassing to read, but then again no one with an IQ higher than 70 posts there anyway.

Understand that the comments feature, when enabled by the Star, is used solely to drive up page views for advertising. More controversy, extremism, racism, political tirades, etc equals more people that may see the ads, and hence it attracts those types of people. Most big city newspapers are like this, unfortunately.

"Fort Fun" certainly isn't made up. I've also heard "Fort Waste" and "Fort Cane" (the latter in reference to FW's supposed signficance in the cocaine trade because of its central location between Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, and Indy--I have no idea if this is fact or legend, but I have heard the nickname). The strip club thing has been noted as well, although I have mostly heard it as a point of perverse pride from Fort Wayne residents.



Thank you. Glad you and UrbanIndy seem to know what I'm talking about.

Not sure why this elicited such negativity. I was trying to defend Fort Wayne, and I'm not even from there. I would agree that the jokes directed toward Fort Wayne seem mild in comparison, but I'm not from Fort Wayne and I've heard their reaction towards ridicule. It's much harder when you're the recipient--no doubt many Chicagoans see their insults hurled at Indy as "good-natured ribbing" though it's hard for the folks in Indy to perceive it that way.

IBJ:

Lilly Endowment will give The Nature Conservancy in Indiana $1 million for its headquarters building, possibly reducing the need for extensive borrowing.

The grant brings the amount raised for the $8 million project to $5.1 million. Those pledges are to be paid over five years, but the new building is under construction and scheduled to be completed at the end of February.

The Nature Conservancy had not raised enough to cover its costs when construction began last spring. The state chapter has been paying its construction-related bills through a line of credit with its parent organization and may take out a bank loan, Director of Philanthropy Betsy Smith said.

The Lilly Endowment grant is paid immediately, however, so it raises the organization's cash-on-hand to $3.5 million, Smith said. With other pledges being paid, The Nature Conservancy may reduce its projected borrowing, she said. Smith could not say exactly how much the organization may borrow.

The Nature Conservancy's building will replace rented space on North Delaware Street. Even if the organization had borrowed the entire $8 million, Smith said, it would have saved about $560,000 within 20 years by constructing its own headquarters.

The new building, at 620 E. Ohio St., is in the Coles-Noble neighborhood and features reclaimed brick, a landscaped roof, and on-site water reclamation.

“Lilly Endowment is pleased to add our support to that of many others for this innovative building project,” endowment President N. Clay Robbins said in a prepared statement. “The fact that the project advances the conservation mission of the Conservancy while helping to rejuvenate an important urban neighborhood is compelling.”

Thank you. Glad you and UrbanIndy seem to know what I'm talking about.

Not sure why this elicited such negativity. I was trying to defend Fort Wayne, and I'm not even from there. I would agree that the jokes directed toward Fort Wayne seem mild in comparison, but I'm not from Fort Wayne and I've heard their reaction towards ridicule. It's much harder when you're the recipient--no doubt many Chicagoans see their insults hurled at Indy as "good-natured ribbing" though it's hard for the folks in Indy to perceive it that way.

Hi American, not to belabor this discussion about a minor comment you made, but I don't think that I or the others who responded to you were trying to be negative, or at least I didn't intend my comments to be so.

Rather, I think most of were just quite perplexed by your allegations that there is some supposed animus against Fort Wayne by people in Indianapolis. The majority of people from Indianapolis have never heard of the pejorative nicknames you mentioned for Fort Wayne (and note that the only posters who say they've heard of them are all from Fort Wayne or went to school there and they all said they were used by people living in that city). Also, I don't think the vast majority of people from Indianapolis have an opinion about Fort Wayne, one way or another. The only Hoosier city which I have ever heard really get put down on a regular basis by people in Indianapolis is Gary. And unfortunately, Gary's infamous reputation (deservedly or not) goes well beyond Indiana.

In any event, I do enjoy reading your urban issues blog. You have posted some thought-provoking commentary and explored interesting issues.

Wow. How pedestrian-friendly. And right on The Cultural Trail, too.

I'm sure there must be some abiding pedestrian-safety logic behind it, what with the jumble of streets leading through the center of Fountain Square...but it surely doesn't become MORE like Monument Circle this way.

Don't we WANT people hanging out by fountains in this city?

I was disappointed to see that the on-street parking on the north side of Prospect Street, east of Shelby was eliminated to provide two westbound lanes, presumably to make sure that traffic could be shuttled through the revamped intersection more quickly. I found it interesting to see people ignoring the new, highly visible "no parking" signs there last Tuesday evening.

Removing parking to create more traffic lanes at this intersection? These guys just don't get it.

It's much harder when you're the recipient--no doubt many Chicagoans see their insults hurled at Indy as "good-natured ribbing" though it's hard for the folks in Indy to perceive it that way.

I don't doubt that, but let me give you one example that would never happen in Chicago. When the Pacers were in one of their 90's or year 2000 playoff runs and were, I believe, playing the Knicks, people pulled big John Deere tractors and such up around the arena. This was on national TV. Maybe it wouldn't happen today, but that sort of willingness to embrace a sort of rural Hoosier image at a marquee event I thought was interesting. Clearly people in Indy don't see themselves as much as separate from the rest of Indiana as say Chicagoan's do from Illinois or the rest of the Midwest.

I grew up hearing snarky comments about Fort Wayne all the time--guess we traveled in different circles. Having been to Fort Wayne, I never understood why. Most of it resembled the "death from boredom" comment that Mike Royko infamously made about Chicago, which is why I drew the comparison. "Fort Fun" is the most common nickname; it seemed to be universally acknowledged.

I wasn't living in Indy at the time, but I can easily remember the days of the "Knicks versus the Hicks".

Perhaps the biggest localized cultural gap is the one between north and southside Indy. I think the division is weakening somewhat, the attitude northsiders have to the south side is akin to Chicagoans put-downs of Indianapolis. Having grown up on the south side, my experience was that for all people in Meridian Kessler or Carmel know of Perry Township and Greenwood, it might as well be rural Afghanistan.

Clearly people in Indy don't see themselves as much as separate from the rest of Indiana as say Chicagoan's do from Illinois or the rest of the Midwest.

I don't think Chicagoans, by and large, are even cognizant of downstate Illinois. I'd be surprised if even a fifth of Chicagoland's population has visited the state capital.

With all this said about Fort Wayne, I was there very recently and saw their lifestyle center, Jefferson Pointe. It's only about six or seven years old, and appeared almost 50% vacant. They didn't even need extended hours over the month of December. Sad. Hopefully just a product of the economic slump.

With all this said about Fort Wayne, I was there very recently and saw their lifestyle center, Jefferson Pointe. It's only about six or seven years old, and appeared almost 50% vacant. They didn't even need extended hours over the month of December. Sad. Hopefully just a product of the economic slump.

Doubt it. Losing Lincoln Financial was big, and full-size GM pickups are unlikely to recover the level of sales they once enjoyed. That knocks a big chunk out of the "lifestyle center" target demographic.

Read recently that the Fort's mayor is basically begging Navistar International to keep jobs in the city. In terms of economic geography, Fort Wayne shares much with the other Detroit shadow cities ("Detroit" in the Big 3 Auto sense) like Anderson, Muncie, Kokomo, South Bend, Flint, Saginaw, Toledo: the shrinking businesses are not outweighed by the growing ones. At some point, it will become a self-reinforcing decline.

Reinvention is required.

Perhaps the biggest localized cultural gap is the one between north and southside Indy. I think the division is weakening somewhat, the attitude northsiders have to the south side is akin to Chicagoans put-downs of Indianapolis. Having grown up on the south side, my experience was that for all people in Meridian Kessler or Carmel know of Perry Township and Greenwood, it might as well be rural Afghanistan.

MK isn't Carmel. I'm equal-opportunity snarky: I have a hard time distinguishing one tan-vinyl (and tan-EIFS) 'burb from another. :lol:

Endless strips of big-boxes (Kohls, Home Depot, Lowe's, Staples, Office Depot, Bed Bath and Beyond, Barnes & Noble, etc.) with a sprinkling of fast food and chain restaurants, plus Walgreen's and CVS on every major corner, on six-lane arterials, all look the same to me. Doesn't really matter whether they're in Washington, Pike, Lawrence, Perry, Wayne, or Franklin Township, or in Hamilton, Boone, Hendricks, Hancock, or Johnson County. Or suburban Chicago, Charlotte, Columbus, Denver or DC.

Clearly people in Indy don't see themselves as much as separate from the rest of Indiana as say Chicagoan's do from Illinois or the rest of the Midwest.

I personally do, but I can definitely see why a majority doesn't.. especially being completely surrounded by farmland and rural america.

I personally do, but I can definitely see why a majority doesn't.. especially being completely surrounded by farmland and rural america.
Whenever I'm visiting somewhere out of town, I always make it a habit to say that I'm from Indianapolis, and not Indiana. Going to college in Muncie, I literally felt like I was in a different state. Having grown up in a large city, I just don't identify with farms, tractors, and such but moreso with the grit, multiculturalism, etc that cities tend to have.

That's what irritates me about those Indiana Beach commercials. All it does is reinforce a lame stereotype. If people don't want others to perceive Indiana as being nothing but hillbillies and cornfields, why reinforce it in the advertising? Yet, people in this state seem to allow the stereotypes to continue for whatever reason. I'd be pissed if I went to New York and paid good money to see the Pacers play, only to be belittled by those in attendance.

Perhaps the biggest localized cultural gap is the one between north and southside Indy
True. Growing up, we never went to the Southside for anything.

There is a definite northside bias. North of Washington, one may find:


18 of the city's 23 libraries
3 of the city's 4 universities
The city's historically good public high schools
The city's historically good private schools
All of the wealthy enclaves
All of the good shopping options
Most of the city's cohesive neighborhoods
The vast majority of the city's minorities, and nearly all of the city's Black and Jewish communities
The vast majority of the city's sprawl (unfortunately)
Most of the city's parks
Most of the city's bus (streetcar) routes
Most of the city's attractive historical housing stock


Many of the things on the list are mutually exclusive, though.

Indy's development is not different from many other places. There's a favored quarter pattern to the north. (Water and winds in US tend to bias towards north side being the "nice" side of town, followed by the west side. Ohio River communities are a notably exception, where the east side is often favored).

What is it with the SSC headline, RIP Downfallen? The guy was or is kinda ?, but I did not hear anything of his status or headlining SSC?

Anyone going to the TSO concert tomorrow at Canseco should have a great time, I am seeing them in Chicago on Saturday. How is Canseco for concerts? I have yet to be in that place.

True. Growing up, we never went to the Southside for anything.

There is a definite northside bias. North of Washington, one may find:


18 of the city's 23 libraries
3 of the city's 4 universities
The city's historically good public high schools
The city's historically good private schools
All of the wealthy enclaves
All of the good shopping options
Most of the city's cohesive neighborhoods
The vast majority of the city's minorities, and nearly all of the city's Black and Jewish communities
The vast majority of the city's sprawl (unfortunately)
Most of the city's parks
Most of the city's bus (streetcar) routes
Most of the city's attractive historical housing stock


Many of the things on the list are mutually exclusive, though.

Keep in mind though most of the metro population is north of Washington. In fact some of the county's agriculture remains intact south of Washington. Many of the stats you listed are that way because its where the people are, not because there is a bias towards that side of town.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2670/4207082497_d2e0d1a3ee_o.jpg

Its Conseco (Not Canseco). I've been to two concerts there -- both quite a while ago. (early 2000's). The first one, the sound wasn't too good. (I was in the upper level and it seemed like there was a lot of "echo" or reverberation up there -- I heard it sounded better in the lower sections.) For the second concert, it sounded better - and I have heard that they have fixed some of the upper level reverberations. Haven't heard too many people complaining about the sound lately -- but you never know. TSO should be fun to see there.

I've been looking at Sanborn Plat Maps from 1956 for work. Today I found an actual "square" that was removed by I-70 East at Rural/Keystone called "Morris Square". Does anyone know anything else about this? A google search comes up empty. I'm a lover of town squares and wish we had more of them here...

Keep in mind though most of the metro population is north of Washington. In fact some of the county's agriculture remains intact south of Washington. Many of the stats you listed are that way because its where the people are, not because there is a bias towards that side of town.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2670/4207082497_d2e0d1a3ee_o.jpg


It is no coincidence that the southwest quarter of the county along White River is the least densely settled. Geologically, it's bottomland and thus valuable farmland. Prior to Geist, Morse, and Eagle Creek reservoirs it was flood-prone, as it's downstream of the points where Eagle Creek, Fall Creek, Pleasant Run, and Pogues Run drain most of the county into White River. Also, the stockyards and meat-packers were in that direction. Today, it's two power plants, several quarries, a dump, and outfalls from three sewage treatment plants.

Indy's development is not different from many other places. There's a favored quarter pattern to the north. (Water and winds in US tend to bias towards north side being the "nice" side of town, followed by the west side. Ohio River communities are a notably exception, where the east side is often favored).

You brought up a very interesting point here. When I lived in the north Dallas suburb of Plano I had seen the extensive growth northward and I mean mega growth. I came to find out that Dallas mainly was split by the Trinity River and everyone identified everything to the north of the river as "north dallas" and the south of the river was called "oak cliff". Now you can tell by just the sound that Oak Cliff sounds not as nice of a place. It was a much older part of town and not much significant development occurred as compared to north dallas. Last I heard, that north dallas and the 6 major suburbs have grown over 600,000 residents in the last 18 to 20 years. Plano went from 74,000 in 1989 to 256,000 by 2005. So Dallas is a very top heavy city to the north.

Hey a new rendering to talk about!
http://www.ibj.com/trustee-chooses-buckinghams-205m-plan-for-former-ymca/PARAMS/article/15358
http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/blog/propertylines/Buckingham-proposal.JPG

Hey a new rendering to talk about!
http://www.ibj.com/trustee-chooses-buckinghams-205m-plan-for-former-ymca/PARAMS/article/15358
http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/blog/propertylines/Buckingham-proposal.JPG

New Urbanist = build to the street and hide the parking out back. (note the line drawings of cars in the background...)

That building will need 200+ parking spaces, at one per apartment.

However, the way it's usually done is with controlled access for residents and a limited open parking lot for visitors/guests. Which probably means something like 250-300 spaces.

That's a big parking lot...probably more than two acres.

I like this, Buckingham seems to do a good job with their designs.

Overall --- I like it a lot. I'd love to see many additional, similar projects all around the regional center. I love the four to six story mixed-use (primarily residential) projects that have been going up lately. Things like The Maxwell, The Hudson and The Cosmopolitan are great. We've got plenty of space to fill in with nice, mid-sized structures like this that help make for attractive, walkable streets - with interesting things to see and do along them. If I had to pick out anything to criticize - I'd like to see a little more interesting design treatment for the area above the windows on the low, one story section of the building - out at the "point" - (although to offset that minor flaw, I love that it will have a roof-top terrace on that part).

This is pretty close to that other recently announced project a few blocks further up Indiana Ave (NW of Fall Creek) - that is supposed to be a residential complex of about 240 or so units - geared primarily for IUPUI students. This will also be sitting diagonally across from the (soon to be) former Wishard Hospital site. It asks the question of what will go in on that space in the future to replace the hospital? It would be great to be able to see several more similar structures with this type of density built in this area -- geared towards students or possibly even some of the doctors / professors or other employees of the Medical Center / IUPUI. A dense core filled with four to six story mixed use structures surrounding the CBD in all directions would be very wonderful. I'd rather see that than several "towers" - that use up much of the demand for downtown housing - and then leave large areas un-developed or underdeveloped - while waiting potentially a long time for enough demand to build more towers. A steady flow of five - six story structures, several per year -- would be great to help fill up the central core of the city over the next decade or two. (Just need to make sure the parking for these buildings is handled properly though. There should not be large surface lots connected to these developments --- and unfortunately - I see a bunch of cars parked behind the building shown above -- so that is definitely not real good. Reduced parking requirements should be part of the regional center zoning plan - along with improved transit, bike and walkability, and the use of Zipp cars - for (very) short term rental usage.)

New Urbanist = build to the street and hide the parking out back. (note the line drawings of cars in the background...)

That building will need 200+ parking spaces, at one per apartment.

However, the way it's usually done is with controlled access for residents and a limited open parking lot for visitors/guests. Which probably means something like 250-300 spaces.

That's a big parking lot...probably more than two acres.

Are you saying "will need" as in mandatory by law? Or "will need" as in the developers desire?

It would be interesting to see if a development could be say, half-marketed to students without cars. There's a substantial Asian and Indian population at IUPUI that doesn't have cars. It would be great to see a development succeed that doesn't just assume that everyone has a car and needs a space.

I don't think it would be too difficult to incorporate a parking facility into the design.

I agree with ablerock, it would be nice to see a new development around IUPUI without a full parking lot. Several students don't have an automobile and would be alright with not having a parking space. However, beautiful design. I'm still waiting for Library Square.

Hey a new rendering to talk about!
http://www.ibj.com/trustee-chooses-buckinghams-205m-plan-for-former-ymca/PARAMS/article/15358
http://www.ibj.com/ext/resources/blog/propertylines/Buckingham-proposal.JPG
Wow I like it. And I'm always a sucker for public art and such, so I give extra points for the sculpture and fountain.

That rendering looks great. I'm very pleased that they selected Buckingham over Van Rooy. Hopefully this spurs Van Rooy to redevelop their Campus View Apartments land with an equally high-quality project. As long as the final project ends up as good as the rendering, Buckingham has set a good standard.

I like it, too

Noticed a development at 22nd & Meridian on my home tonight. The bldg looks suburban, but is being built to the corner which was a nice surprise, this sign was blown/knocked over so I couldn't see a business name or anything.. Can someone fill me in?

Happy Holidays!

^^ I believe thats the Jack in the Box... don't hold me accountable though.

Noticed a development at 22nd & Meridian on my home tonight. The bldg looks suburban, but is being built to the corner which was a nice surprise, this sign was blown/knocked over so I couldn't see a business name or anything.. Can someone fill me in?

Happy Holidays!
http://www.ibj.com/new-project-at-22nd-and-meridian/PARAMS/post/3510

:)

^^

"UPDATE: I'm told the developer has revised the site design, at the planning department's request, to move the building up to the corner. The building design also is being revised to include brick on all four sides up to the top of the windows."

That's some good news!

^^

"UPDATE: I'm told the developer has revised the site design, at the planning department's request, to move the building up to the corner. The building design also is being revised to include brick on all four sides up to the top of the windows."

That's some good news!

Nice! However since that article Balboa's (former subway spot) went out of business as well as the Bonjour Cafe. This area has potential, good to see a decent development on the corner!

Are you saying "will need" as in mandatory by law? Or "will need" as in the developers desire?

It would be interesting to see if a development could be say, half-marketed to students without cars. There's a substantial Asian and Indian population at IUPUI that doesn't have cars. It would be great to see a development succeed that doesn't just assume that everyone has a car and needs a space.

It's zoned D-8, which requires 1 parking space per unit. 210 parking spaces would require more than an acre of parking (on a two-acre site).

Math: parking space minimum size is 180 square feet (10x18 or 9x20), with an adjacent drive aisle; the typical layout is 24' drive aisles between rows of parking. So a lot of 210 spaces divided into two rows of 105 spaces on each side of a 24' drive would require (105 x 9' x 64' = 60480 square feet).

Just sayin'...

I agree with those who say it shouldn't be so. If the site were rezoned to a CBD classification, it wouldn't require parking...and then it would be the developer's sole decision how much parking is really dicated by the expected tenants.

Noticed a development at 22nd & Meridian on my home tonight. The bldg looks suburban, but is being built to the corner which was a nice surprise, this sign was blown/knocked over so I couldn't see a business name or anything.. Can someone fill me in?

Happy Holidays!

That is a small building (strip mall sort of building, but up to the street) I asked about a while back. I believe it will be home to a Subway and a few other uses. The Jack in the Box is going next to the CVS at 16th and Meridian if I heard correctly. I believe it was on 13 news.

A dense core filled with four to six story mixed use structures surrounding the CBD in all directions would be very wonderful. I'd rather see that than several "towers" - that use up much of the demand for downtown housing - and then leave large areas un-developed or underdeveloped - while waiting potentially a long time for enough demand to build more towers. A steady flow of five - six story structures, several per year -- would be great to help fill up the central core of the city over the next decade or two.

I believe your wish will come true. Unless Greg Allen can work his magic and actually build Penn Centre, I believe the JW will be the last skyline-altering development in Indy for the next 5-10 years. These smaller projects are great though, because we now need to focus on getting people back into the central city. I wish some of these small developments would head out east and replace some of the wasteland about 15-20 blocks out.

I believe the $30 million or so that is soon to be spent buying and maintaining and rehabbing and reselling homes on the near east side is going to help stabilize that area you are talking about above (related to the Super Bowl near east side neighborhood revitalization project). The higher intensity commercial uses and mixed-use projects -(with plenty of residential above), should be built at key, transit oriented sites along the primary corridors in that area -- ie along E. Tenth Street, E. New York / E. Michigan and E. Washington.

The Oddfellows lodge at 2202 E. Washington (Formerly Reclaimed) is one of my favorites in the entire city. It is a jewel surrounded by used car lots, gas stations, auto repair shops, and deteriorated and abandoned homes. I'd love to open a bar back up on the ground floor, and use the top 2 levels for both rental and personal housing. That neighborhood is very rough though, right at the corner of Hamilton (Murder) Ave, and Washington St.

It's zoned D-8, which requires 1 parking space per unit. 210 parking spaces would require more than an acre of parking (on a two-acre site).

Math: parking space minimum size is 180 square feet (10x18 or 9x20), with an adjacent drive aisle; the typical layout is 24' drive aisles between rows of parking. So a lot of 210 spaces divided into two rows of 105 spaces on each side of a 24' drive would require (105 x 9' x 64' = 60480 square feet).

Just sayin'...

I agree with those who say it shouldn't be so. If the site were rezoned to a CBD classification, it wouldn't require parking...and then it would be the developer's sole decision how much parking is really dicated by the expected tenants.

Actually, CBD zoning does require parking, except in the Mile Square. From my reading of it (Definition of Total Adjusted Net Floor Area under 735-207 of City Code), it appears that for residential development, one space per 800 sq.ft. is required, and for retail one space per 400 sq.ft. I guess depending on the size of the units, a CBD zoning could require more parking than D-8. How odd would that be?

Amount, design, and location of parking is definitely going to be a huge factor in how good of an urban project this becomes.

Speaking of parking, the last report on this link indicates that the housing development proposed for Indiana & Montcalm now needs an additional 202 spaces of surface parking to augment the 266 spaces that were presumed sufficient when the project was approved earlier this year.
http://www.indy.gov/eGov/City/DMD/Planning/Zoning/Documents/bza2/12-15-09bza2.pdf

I believe the $30 million or so that is soon to be spent buying and maintaining and rehabbing and reselling homes on the near east side is going to help stabilize that area you are talking about above (related to the Super Bowl near east side neighborhood revitalization project). The higher intensity commercial uses and mixed-use projects -(with plenty of residential above), should be built at key, transit oriented sites along the primary corridors in that area -- ie along E. Tenth Street, E. New York / E. Michigan and E. Washington.

[Rant on]

Just exactly who is going to buy $30 million worth of rehabbed and poorly insulated 3,000 square foot barns on the near east side? There's nothing especially green about fixing up a place that's going to eat $300 a month in natural gas bills in the winter and $200 a month in electricity to air condition in the summer. New roofs, windows, siding, and high-efficiency mechanicals won't make up for the hollow walls and leaky basements that suck heat out.

I've heard the eastside arguments against Fall Creek Place-style gentrification, about an absolute preference for rehab, about growing their own homeowners through social work and community development. The sad truth is they can't do it as fast as the neighborhood housing, commercial space, and population declines. People with options WILL go elsewhere. There are other convenient urban neighborhoods in Indianapolis, some that have never gotten as bad or as saturated with criminals as the near east side.

There is nothing bad about knocking down some of those decrepit old places and replacing them with modern infill homes. Keep the best older places...I'm not saying run a bulldozer from Oriental to Sherman. But it's just unrealistic as hell to imagine that every single blighted home on the near east side can (or should) be saved from the wrecking ball.

[End rant]

Right. I don't think anyone plans to save every single home in that area. They just want to help stabilize the area. Maybe big time assistance with making the homes more energy efficient will be a part of the plan. I don't know all of the details --- I've just heard there are plans to start investing in the neighborhood. From an article I was looking at, where they discuss the "Eastside Legacy Project", it said more details would likely be announced in early 2010. (Also -- this article talks about $20 million worth of investments -- so maybe its not $30 million.) http://www.urbantimesonline.com/?p=975

Right. I don't think anyone plans to save every single home in that area. They just want to help stabilize the area. Maybe big time assistance with making the homes more energy efficient will be a part of the plan.

The CDCs in Indy have been "stabilizing" the Center Township neighborhoods for 20-30 years now. Only the ones that gentrified (Chatham Arch, Old Northside, Herron Morton Place, Fall Creek Place) are market-competitive neighborhoods today.

At $125,000 a house to purchase and rehab (a dubiously low number for the house that needs everything), $29 million only takes care of 232 houses. That's less than half of Fall Creek Place spread over an area ten times as big. If it were concentrated in a ten-block area (like Fall Creek Place), then I would believe it would have some significant impact and that there would be some lasting "legacy" of the stimulus and Super Bowl dollars.

Even that amount of money amounts to little more than a band-aid on a hemhorrage.

Again: my issue is that the plans for the area have an extreme preference for rehab when the best thing to do from a financial, environmental, and marketing standpoint is to bulldoze a lot of the bad old houses and replace them with new-construction infill. Cheaper, greener, and more desirable to potential buyers.

While back home in Indpls. for the holidays, I made a side trip to the Carmel City Center site. They are really building that thing! They have started with the densest corner first. The outside of the first building looks almost complete, and I counted 13 stories!

I can't imagine they'll build the whole thing as first envisioned, but what is there now looks just like the drawings. The concert hall will be amazing.

I also happened to drive by this:

http://fishers-indiana.funcityfinder.com/files/2009/01/fishers-train-station-3501.jpg

I had no idea! This thing looks like it is just waiting for a commuter train to come and give it a reason to live.

I also happened to drive by this:

http://fishers-indiana.funcityfinder.com/files/2009/01/fishers-train-station-3501.jpg

I had no idea! This thing looks like it is just waiting for a commuter train to come and give it a reason to live.

It is. I was watching some show on WFYI (could have been myindy23) called IMP or IPM or something like that and they interviewed a fishers town planner at that station and he said something to the effect that they were very excited to be one of the first legs of 85 miles of light rail planned for Indianapolis and its surrounding area. I tried to track down the video, but no luck. The video seemed somewhat current, but I am not certain.

I also happened to drive by this:

http://fishers-indiana.funcityfinder.com/files/2009/01/fishers-train-station-3501.jpg

I had no idea! This thing looks like it is just waiting for a commuter train to come and give it a reason to live.

Only one problem: you'd have to pave all the greenspace at the Fishers Government Center to provide parking for all those park-n-riders.

Again: my issue is that the plans for the area have an extreme preference for rehab when the best thing to do from a financial, environmental, and marketing standpoint is to bulldoze a lot of the bad old houses and replace them with new-construction infill. Cheaper, greener, and more desirable to potential buyers.

Thunder, I think you've posted a well-thought out argument on this, but I have to take issue with you on a number of your points. I think you're misunderstanding the goal of this project. The real goal is to stimulate PRIVATE investment; to create the money-multiplier effect. Its totally unrealistic to think any public project can totally redevelop an area the size of the near-eastside. To do that task would be a multi-billion $ project. Instead, they are trying to ignite a spark that lights the fire of private investment. Will it work? I don't know. I remain optimistic though. Even if they're only able to rehab a few hundred houses there is a chance existing/new owners will see value in rehabing other properties because of this project. Already this side of town is seeing the creation of Indy's first food coop as a direct result of this investment.

And I do think they get more bang for the buck with rehab. Most of the time IT IS cheaper to rehab than to demolish and build anew. There are examples of houses that have been abused for decades where this is not the case and in those cases I believe you're right, the houses should be torn down, but I believe these houses are in the minority. This project also has limited funds and I don't believe they will be focusing on houses that require 6 figure rehabs. Hopefully down the road there are new additions to the housing stock, but if they did any new construction with these funds it would have to be very low-end construction that most likely would not complement the existing housing stock.

From my own experience the existing housing can in fact be successfully marketed- I live on the outskirts of the near-eastside in a neighborhood that borders Irvington and I've lived here for about 7 years.. My direct neighborhood has never really gone downhill and has remained predominately owner occupied. There has been a steady demand for housing here from middle class individuals that have many housing options all around the city. There are a number of neighborhoods like this on the near-eastside (Woodruff place, Cottage home, Little flower, Emerson Heights, Holy Cross) and prove there is a market for older bungalow housing of this type given the right environment. To call this housing "barns" quite honestly is a little bit of an insult.

And I've heard the "green" argument before. Something that's rarely taken into account is that it requires massive amounts of energy to tear down a house and construct a new one. If you replace the house with a greener alternative it could take many years to make up that difference in the month-to-month energy cost savings. And besides, doing an energy audit on a house and insulating the problem points is not all that challenging..its been done thousands of times before.

Again like yourself I'm not proposing a B&W solution. New construction should occur. There are actually many houses that get torn down each year by city order leaving large empty lots that are ripe for new construction. Driving down washington st you can readily see many of these. If this area were to take off I'm sure you'd see new housing stock going up.

Already this side of town is seeing the creation of Indy's first food coop as a direct result of this investment.

I realize this isn't your main point, but a slight correction is in order:

The formation of the food coop pre-dates both the NSP money and the Super Bowl Legacy project. The Legacy push has led to significant grants that are moving the project forward, but the organizers started the effort in 2007 and went through the visioning, planning, and incorporating effort starting in January 2008 without any assurance that such grants would be available.

In fact, I think the neighborhood-owned grocery is one of the things that will promote the neighborhood to new residents. That's why I got on board with the project early...like you, I live in a small-bungalow neighborhood just outside the edges of the NESCO and SEND areas.

I realize this isn't your main point, but a slight correction is in order:

The formation of the food coop pre-dates both the NSP money and the Super Bowl Legacy project. The Legacy push has led to significant grants that are moving the project forward, but the organizers started the effort in 2007 and went through the visioning, planning, and incorporating effort starting in January 2008 without any assurance that such grants would be available.

In fact, I think the neighborhood-owned grocery is one of the things that will promote the neighborhood to new residents. That's why I got on board with the project early...like you, I live in a small-bungalow neighborhood just outside the edges of the NESCO and SEND areas.

Has the food co-op even opened yet? They got that big press boost and then they dropped off the face of the earth.

Has the food co-op even opened yet? They got that big press boost and then they dropped off the face of the earth.

The co-op is still trying to raise capital for Pogue's Run Grocery.

Looking East
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SzqLEB537hI/AAAAAAAAES4/YpeKCPguikk/s512/photo.jpg

Looking East
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SzqK7CO5-YI/AAAAAAAAESg/nSjyxL44gm8/s512/photo.jpg

The Front, Looking West
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SzqK7AAu0hI/AAAAAAAAESk/-gXW61Sj818/s512/photo%202.jpg

The Front, looking North
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SzqK7BCrGvI/AAAAAAAAESo/brHyxLCQ6uc/s512/photo%203.jpg

Back Car port (potentially open air... but should be secure due to the use of the property)
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SzqK7dZniQI/AAAAAAAAESs/OZZCE5vRRfQ/s512/photo%204.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SzqK7iba0UI/AAAAAAAAESw/uG2Zbat4E58/s512/photo%205.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SzqLEZ2v0CI/AAAAAAAAETE/_TnqMve2AVA/s512/photo%204.jpg

The Back, Looking South East
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SzqLEu2_EYI/AAAAAAAAETI/3Z8qGQKdgQI/s512/photo%205.jpg

The Back, Looking South East
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SzqLNZcy80I/AAAAAAAAETs/wvDzpaSMgTs/s512/photo%202.jpg

Looking East
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SzqLEclU0wI/AAAAAAAAETA/b3GC1xGzF7U/s512/photo%203.jpg http://lh4.ggpht.com/_weBy68KZy-I/SzqLNUrYVVI/AAAAAAAAETw/WlJRGxRXe8o/s512/photo%203.jpg

The co-op is still trying to raise capital for Pogue's Run Grocery.

Make that MORE capital. A big chunk is raised through memberships and grants, enough to begin some building renovation and equipment purchases. Hiring a GM is next.

In this economic environment, it turned out to be much harder than it looked.

FMI go to the website (http://indyfoodcoop.org/).

Concerning the eastside, are there any programs or loans that homeowners in the area can apply for to help rehab their homes?

Concerning the eastside, are there any programs or loans that homeowners in the area can apply for to help rehab their homes?

FHA has a program for owner-occupied total rehabs that rolls construction loan into permanent financing, 203(k) (http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/203k/sfh203kc.cfm)

The catch is that the property will have to be worth what the owner puts into it, and in an area where significant subsidy is required (i.e. market value of a renovated house is below cost) it can be a bit problematic to get a high enough appraisal to support a significant renovation.

There are also several CDCs and community service organizations that assist homeowners under 80% of Median Family Income with home repairs on the east side.

The folks at the John Boner Center on E. 10th Street would have information on various programs. NESCO (near east side community organization) has its offices there - and there are people within that group who are helping to develop the rehab plans and are assisting with the (Super Bowl 2012) "legacy" project improvements. The general number for the Boner Center is 633-8210. (fyi -- the pronunciation of the Boner Center rhymes with honor or Connor.)

Check out the bolded wording in the final paragraph of the article below. This is great idea. Imagine the views of downtown from Lucas Oil Stadium overlooking a Union Station with a green rooftop.

http://www.ibj.com/planned-upgrades-of-former-coke-oven-to-be-spent-on-community-projects/PARAMS/article/15447 (http://www.ibj.com/planned-upgrades-of-former-coke-oven-to-be-spent-on-community-projects/PARAMS/article/15447)

Upgrade money for former coke plant goes to community projects

December 30, 2009



Citizens Energy Group is redirecting to community groups more than $413,000 that it was to spend on environmental upgrade projects at its former coke oven facility in Indianapolis, which closed in 2007.
Citizens Energy Group is redirecting to community groups more than $413,000 that it was to spend on environmental upgrade projects at its former 2950 Prospect St. coke oven facility in Indianapolis, which was closed in 2007.

The community funding stems from an agreement with the Indiana Department of Environmental Management. Citizens prior to the plant closure had planned to spend the money on environmental projects at the plant in lieu of payment of civil penalty dollars to IDEM that resulted from enforcement actions in previous years.

Citizens already has provided $100,000 to the Central Indiana Community Foundation toward construction of the southeast corridor of the Indianapolis Cultural Trail, which will connect downtown to Fountain Square.

The utility plans to provide more than $100,000 to the Indianapolis Housing Authority and to community development corporations in the county to support low-income rental unit weatherization.

Citizens is reserving another $50,000 for future weatherization projects, said spokesman Dan Considine.

Citizens will soon provide $50,000 for a block grant through the Indiana Finance Authority to support remediation of a brownfield site on LaSalle Street, near the former coke plant.

Other awards will include $50,000 for a block grant to the SustainIndy fund toward construction of a green roof at Union Station. Another $63,234 will be given to the Indianapolis ToxAway program to provide residents with free disposal of household hazardous wastes, Considine said

Sounds good. For that amount of money though -- I'm sure it would not be for the entire two block long roof of the second level train shed -- which would be even doubly difficult because it is not flat - but has many zig-zags. Maybe it is for the section of bridge that goes over Capitol Avenue. That is where the Crowne Plaza hotel connects to the Convention Center. It looks pretty crummy up there right now -- a lot of weeds and there used to be some parking. With the construction of the convention center expansion, I don't think you can drive up to that area anymore -- so the parking lot might not be able to be used. Makes sense that they would tear that up and replace the asphalt with a nice garden. That's just my guess as to what $63,000 might be able to be spent on for a green roof on (near) Union Station.

(^^ or $50,000 actually -- not $63,000.)

According to a desk employee at the crown plaza they closed the access up there due to the convention center construction. If you look at the convention center plans they are going to do parkingalong the tracks at ground level. I took some photos from track level recently and they had the two tracks over Illinois broken and were redoing that area with new rebar. The freight lines of course were still operating. Should be interesting to see what happens with the old track but the greening of the roof would be nice. It looks nasty up there now

According to a desk employee at the crown plaza they closed the access up there due to the convention center construction. If you look at the convention center plans they are going to do parkingalong the tracks at ground level. I took some photos from track level recently and they had the two tracks over Illinois broken and were redoing that area with new rebar. The freight lines of course were still operating. Should be interesting to see what happens with the old track but the greening of the roof would be nice. It looks nasty up there now

Wasn't it announced recently that there would be a skywalk connection between the Crowne Plaza and the Convention Center? It would presumably use the north edge of the Capitol Ave. bridge.

I remember hearing about that as well. Not sure where it will fit in there though.

The construction crane for the California St. Parking Garage is up. After seeing the gigantic JW-M cranes for so long, the proportions of this one look odd. The boom is almost as long as the height of the crane!

And I've heard the "green" argument before. Something that's rarely taken into account is that it requires massive amounts of energy to tear down a house and construct a new one. If you replace the house with a greener alternative it could take many years to make up that difference in the month-to-month energy cost savings. And besides, doing an energy audit on a house and insulating the problem points is not all that challenging..its been done thousands of times before.

Again like yourself I'm not proposing a B&W solution. New construction should occur. There are actually many houses that get torn down each year by city order leaving large empty lots that are ripe for new construction.

Great dialogue between BosartBrown and Thundermutt--excellent points raised by both. You are right that demolition and rebuild is rarely considered a "greener" alternative to renovation, largely because new construction requires so many new, non-local materials, and so little of the demo debris gets recycled. Creative renovation is likely to score more LEED credits, for whatever it's worth.

However, benefiting from month-to-month energy cost savings usually does not take many years, in terms of the cost differentials between new green construction and new non-green construction. The extra cost margin for green construction is also decreasing by the month, as those materials become more standardized and widely available. So the arguments for new construction versus rebuild both remain valid.

Are most of the arguments for this $30 million near-Eastside reconstruction plan couched in terms of "stabilization" to avoid the stigma of "inducing gentrification"? I'd love to hear other arguments, but my suspicion is that gentrification is the only realistic future for the near Eastside. Working class families who have a choice between IPS and Warren Township Schools are nearly always going to choose the latter, even if the IPS district holds shiny new homes. Any Keynsian economic plan for the near Eastside is most likely going to attract buyers who prefer urban living and can afford private schools or simply don't need good school systems because they have no children. This is just my estimate, of course--if anyone has evidence to suggest otherwise, I'm all ears.

Anyone know how to apply for a Handicap sign / yellow parking stripe on a city street? I have a really annoying neighbor who knock on my door anytime someone is parked in front of her house.

Haha that is hilarious. We have people who park in front of our house in a single lane driveway neighborhood but what can ya do... Move on

Anyone know how to apply for a Handicap sign / yellow parking stripe on a city street? I have a really annoying neighbor who knock on my door anytime someone is parked in front of her house.

Have her call the mayor's action line (or you could even call and ask if its really annoying). If they can't start the process they can at least point her in the right direction.

Haha that is hilarious. We have people who park in front of our house in a single lane driveway neighborhood but what can ya do... Move on

I'll def call the mayors action line.. I don't give a FF about parking, but 9pm when someone is banging on my door because my roommate or gf parked in what my neighbors think is "their spot" it's quite irritating.

one neighbor I told to take walk after calmly explaining it is a city street and you don't rent the parking spot. they wouldn't hear it.

the other is handicapped and I don't have the heart to refuse to move a car for her..

I've tried to get my housemates to just not park in front of her house, but I have friends over and etc. having a spot striped and signed would just be for the best..

I hate that I have to deal with a parking situation considering I walk and bike 98% of the time.

From my own experience the existing housing can in fact be successfully marketed- I live on the outskirts of the near-eastside in a neighborhood that borders Irvington and I've lived here for about 7 years.. My direct neighborhood has never really gone downhill and has remained predominately owner occupied. There has been a steady demand for housing here from middle class individuals that have many housing options all around the city. There are a number of neighborhoods like this on the near-eastside (Woodruff place, Cottage home, Little flower, Emerson Heights, Holy Cross) and prove there is a market for older bungalow housing of this type given the right environment. To call this housing "barns" quite honestly is a little bit of an insult.

Much of the older housing stock between I-65 and the Belt Line RR is big, old 4-square houses. Some are singles, some are doubles, but many are big old 2-story houses that run well over 2000 square feet. My own opinion is that houses that size are "barn-sized". I realize that's an unflattering characterization, but I'm all about minimizing footprint nowadays.

As American Dirt pointed out, people with school-age kids are unlikely buyers unless/until the area gentrifies.

And I've heard the "green" argument before. Something that's rarely taken into account is that it requires massive amounts of energy to tear down a house and construct a new one. If you replace the house with a greener alternative it could take many years to make up that difference in the month-to-month energy cost savings. And besides, doing an energy audit on a house and insulating the problem points is not all that challenging..its been done thousands of times before.

I don't have to do an energy audit on a 1915-1930 house to know that there's no insulation in the exterior walls, and that the interior walls are plaster, possibly with fire-stops. I also don't have to do a lot of figuring to assume that the wiring is knob-and-tube, and thus unsafe for new blown-in cellulosic insulation.

Really: it's like the difference between a 1970 Chevrolet and a new one. You could spend a lot of money to retrofit it with today's emission-control and safety features, but it just makes better sense to admit that the old one has become functionally obsolete and it needs to go away. Maybe some think a house can and should last forever, but that's just not going to happen with early 20th-century frame houses that have significant deficits.

Demo actually doesn't require that much energy itself. I think where the LEED beancounters penalize demolition is the waste stream.

^^ That's pretty obnoxious to hear your thinking. I was able to buy my 1922 bungalow back in 1990 for a pretty cheap price. Because my monthly payments have been so low - I've been able to upgrade all of the electrical (yes, it was knob-and-tube), put in a new furnace and central air, re-shingle, waterproof the basement, re-paint -- both the inside (twice) and the outside -- and convert the 30 year mortgage to fifteen years. The house will be paid off in about six more months. I'm glad I didn't tear down my house just because it needed some upgrading. Besides working out fine in terms of a financial sense -- I also like my older home - and would hate to think what I might have ended up with if I had spent the same total amount of money back in the early nineties to buy or build something new. I hate beige with fake siding!

Much of the older housing stock between I-65 and the Belt Line RR is big, old 4-square houses. Some are singles, some are doubles, but many are big old 2-story houses that run well over 2000 square feet. My own opinion is that houses that size are "barn-sized". I realize that's an unflattering characterization, but I'm all about minimizing footprint nowadays.

According to the U.S. Census, at the end of 2008, the average U.S. new home size had fallen to 2,343 square feet. The average U.S. new home size has been at or over 2,000 square feet since 2000. Even with the downward trend continuing, it would take a few years to return to an average size of 2000 square feet. So, at least compared to the size of new homes which have been built in the past 10 years, and even to the smaller homes being built in the post-recession last couple of years, 2,000 square feet hardly qualifies as "barn-sized." For a single person or a childless couple, I agree it is more space than is probably needed, though not necessarily more space than someone would want, especially for people who like to entertain and who enjoy having friends and family come to visit. My mom and her partner live in a house of that size with two dogs and it seems very cozy and comfortable to me, and not at all like a barn.

What DID seem "barn-sized" to me was my aunt and uncle's 7,500 square foot home they built in Carmel about 7 years ago (long after all their kids were grown and living on their own). Those "McMansion" homes are what I suspect will become obsolete very quickly. (In fact, my aunt and uncle recently downsized to a 2,500 square foot home in Westfield which they live in when they aren't staying at their condo in Florida).

As for the issues of maintenance and energy consumption, they are legitimate considerations with older homes, but I do know one can still find lots of older homes in Indianapolis, which are not in total disrepair, and which can be made reasonably energy efficient with exorbitant costs. In fact, I know from friends and family member's own experience, that one can invest in new insulation, a new furnace, and even new windows, and including the cost of the house, one can still spend less than what one would for a new home of lesser quality construction and with a lot less character.

Does this mean every old home is worth saving? No. There certainly are some homes which are too far gone and in too undesirable of a location for it to be feasible to rehabilitate them for the general market. Nonetheless, I don't believe Indianapolis needs to jump the gun and start demolishing blocks of older homes. "Land-banking" can end up meaning decades of blight when done without careful study as to what they market will support. Sometimes, it does make far more sense to fix-up what you already have. Before the city proceeds with its redevelopment plans, I hope it invests in exhaustive planning and market studies and historic preservation surveys and holds several rounds of public meetings.

I don't have to do an energy audit on a 1915-1930 house to know that there's no insulation in the exterior walls, and that the interior walls are plaster, possibly with fire-stops. I also don't have to do a lot of figuring to assume that the wiring is knob-and-tube, and thus unsafe for new blown-in cellulosic insulation.

Heat rises. The attic is the source for the most heat loss in the house and the wiring is exposed/easily replaced. Spraying in attic insulation is very feasible.

Same goes for the basement. A lot of cold air gets in between the space where the foundation meets the house. This can easily be insulated.

You do have a point with the walls but you can get a house fairly energy efficient just concentrating on these areas and replacing the HVAC with high efficiency units.


Really: it's like the difference between a 1970 Chevrolet and a new one. You could spend a lot of money to retrofit it with today's emission-control and safety features, but it just makes better sense to admit that the old one has become functionally obsolete and it needs to go away.

Really its not: The car market is completely different than the real estate market and comparing the 2 makes little sense. I throw out my coffee maker and buy a new one when it breaks. This doesn't mean I'm going to apply this same logic to my house.

Really its not: The car market is completely different than the real estate market and comparing the 2 makes little sense. I throw out my coffee maker and buy a new one when it breaks. This doesn't mean I'm going to apply this same logic to my house.

I agree completely. I live in an 1890 house in Meridian Park. New furnace, blown in insulation, two layers of insulation in the attic, new windows, and a few cases of caulk.. Its a big house with high ceilings, but it is great in all seasons with the relatively inexpensive upgrades.

Also... my coffee maker broke yesterday... and is now in the trash.

I lived in an 1898 balloon frame house in Evanston, IL for a few years. I bought it to rehab. It required new siding, insulation, wiring, plumbing, windows, A/C, new kitchens/baths, etc. The previous owners had done a tearoff on the roof. I saved the plaster walls in most rooms, along with lovely crown molding and narrow width hardwood floors that were nailed down.

This was not an inexpensive proposition. Clearly, the house was borderline teardown. Were the land a bit more valuable (I backed up against a double track commuter rail line and the L), it would have been.

Saving money doing it yourself is one thing - if you've got the skills and time. If there are details in the home worth saving, go for it.

But keep in mind those old homes have tiny rooms, limited closet space and other lovely things. And even with a complete rehab they are going to be comparatively high maintenance going forward. Low income buyers will need the money coming in to properly keep up with it, as well as a commitment to doing so.

I like preservation, but let's not be dogmatic about it. Also, keep in mind that teardowns are an opportunity for increased density. That is how Seattle grew so dense in recent years. I watched the process of transformation going on 15 years ago.

What is with all of the huge old historic homes that are falling in on Fall Creek Parkway? These homes seem to be the same style as Pleasant Run at the end of New York st. Are the taxes too high in this area for these homes to be revived like those in the Pleasant Run/Ellenberger Park area?

What is with all of the huge old historic homes that are falling in on Fall Creek Parkway? These homes seem to be the same style as Pleasant Run at the end of New York st. Are the taxes too high in this area for these homes to be revived like those in the Pleasant Run/Ellenberger Park area?

What stretch of Fall Creek Parkway are you talking about? I saw one or two vacant homes over by the State Fairgrounds/38th Street, but traveling along the Fall Creek Trail, almost everything to the northeast seemed in pretty good shape. Or is it the area closer to Meridian? Isn't that mostly multifamily/institutional?

There is a pretty dilapitated looking building at 30th and Fall Creek that looks like it was once an apartment building or something. Its an old brick structure that looks like it could be rehabbed into something pretty nice looking.

While Fall Creek isnt a stroll through Meridian Kessler, there are still some very nice looking old homes from there all the way up. Maybe not as clean as one would like to see, but definitely not bad.

Locally based Buckingham Cos. has won the right to redevelop a two-acre property at 860 W. 10th St. near the IUPUI campus.

The developer plans to tear down the former YMCA branch and replace it with a $20.5 million mixed-use project featuring retail space, a fitness center and 210 apartment units.

The former YMCA site is slated for redevelopment as retail and housing. (IBJ Photo/Robin Jerstad)The Center Township Advisory Board, which owns the property, had sought a project compatible with the Indiana Avenue Cultural District and nearby IUPUI and hospital campuses.

Buckingham will pay $225,000 in rent per year and has an option to buy the property after five years for an additional $3.3 million. Buckingham also agreed to fund $15,000 in college scholarships per year for 20 years for students at Crispus Attucks High School. Buckingham has constructed similar projects near the campuses of the University of Notre Dame in South Bend and the University of Kentucky in Lexington.

The structure, designed by locally based CSO Architects, is designed to be “refined and hip,” according to bid documents. “It has a defined base, with street-level detailing, a middle, and a cap element along its roof line. The storefront at the plaza is shown pulled out from the main core, providing visual interest with the scale change, as well as creating the opportunity for a rooftop deck.”

I lived in an 1898 balloon frame house in Evanston, IL for a few years. I bought it to rehab. It required new siding, insulation, wiring, plumbing, windows, A/C, new kitchens/baths, etc. The previous owners had done a tearoff on the roof. I saved the plaster walls in most rooms, along with lovely crown molding and narrow width hardwood floors that were nailed down.

This was not an inexpensive proposition. Clearly, the house was borderline teardown. Were the land a bit more valuable (I backed up against a double track commuter rail line and the L), it would have been.

Saving money doing it yourself is one thing - if you've got the skills and time. If there are details in the home worth saving, go for it.

But keep in mind those old homes have tiny rooms, limited closet space and other lovely things. And even with a complete rehab they are going to be comparatively high maintenance going forward. Low income buyers will need the money coming in to properly keep up with it, as well as a commitment to doing so.

I like preservation, but let's not be dogmatic about it. Also, keep in mind that teardowns are an opportunity for increased density. That is how Seattle grew so dense in recent years. I watched the process of transformation going on 15 years ago.

Like arenn, I've owned a really old house (also balloon-framed), and two that were not quite antique. Mine was a frame MK house with a brick basement; it was "the worst house on the block" but it was a VERY good block and I knew I'd get back every penny I put in it. Some of it had been updated, some not. It had minor structural issues when I bought it, and it was about 1900 square feet with one bathroom and small closets. So my basic inclination is to keep and fix a house like most of the rest of you.

But a DIY or pay-as-you go renovation generally requires that the place be habitable. One problem on the near east side is that many of the houses aren't much more than a shell unfit for habitation; those are the ones that probably should meet Mr. Demolition. There's a vast difference between such houses and the ones Eddie and Bosart Brown and Garfield Park are talking about (and the ones arenn and I fixed up); the "worst house on the block" in a still-decent neighborhood doesn't require nearly the level of immediate reinvestment that many of the dilapidated near east side places do.

Secondly, to kangaroo: there has been extensive planning and neighborhood input done on the near east side. (http://www.greatindyneighborhoods.org/neareastside/index.php)
This is heresy in current urban planning circles, but sometimes the folks who already live in a run-down neighborhood have unrealistic ideas about what is possible and what is practical. This is especially true of the very long-term residents and the "urban pioneers", who may simply want to re-create some golden era instead of figuring out where a particular neighborhood fits into the urban fabric of today.

Like arenn, I've owned a really old house (also balloon-framed), and two that were not quite antique. Mine was a frame MK house with a brick basement; it was "the worst house on the block" but it was a VERY good block and I knew I'd get back every penny I put in it. Some of it had been updated, some not. It had minor structural issues when I bought it, and it was about 1900 square feet with one bathroom and small closets. So my basic inclination is to keep and fix a house like most of the rest of you.

Forgot this part:

Uninsulated plaster walls are a significant source of heat loss. Plaster is both thicker and more dense than wallboard, so it sucks heat out of a room in cold weather. Attic blankets won't help.

The typical frame house construction had lath & plaster inside, with diagonal 1x8 outside sheathing (with significant air gaps), then wood siding over that. That is EXTREMELY leaky, so cold air is right next to the lath and plaster. The ONLY way to really make it energy-efficient by today's standards is to get some kind of insulating material into the wall cavity and to get a wrapping material under new siding, or to completely caulk all exterior lap joints. That really means some very expensive and/or time-consuming work.

Forgot this part:

Uninsulated plaster walls are a significant source of heat loss. Plaster is both thicker and more dense than wallboard, so it sucks heat out of a room in cold weather. Attic blankets won't help.

The typical frame house construction had lath & plaster inside, with diagonal 1x8 outside sheathing (with significant air gaps), then wood siding over that. That is EXTREMELY leaky, so cold air is right next to the lath and plaster. The ONLY way to really make it energy-efficient by today's standards is to get some kind of insulating material into the wall cavity and to get a wrapping material under new siding, or to completely caulk all exterior lap joints. That really means some very expensive and/or time-consuming work.

I live in southern broad ripple. We bought the house almost 2 years ago. this past summer we put a new exterior door in place of a window and when we started tearing into the walls, we discovered this. It would explain why interior walls are cold to the touch (currently). Its funny that you posted this becaues with all the recent posts on here, it got me thinking about what I could do to try and cure this, and make my home more energy efficient. Short of cutting holes in the wall between joists and shooting something in there, I cant think of anything else. Im not reasonably experienced when it comes to doing this kind of work, but it seems like what would need to happen.

That said, I imagine there are a LOT of homes out there like this. And I dont live in what I would consider a run down neighborhood either.

Other awards will include $50,000 for a block grant to the SustainIndy fund toward construction of a green roof at Union Station. Another $63,234 will be given to the Indianapolis ToxAway program to provide residents with free disposal of household hazardous wastes, Considine said

I sent an email to sustainindy and asked what, if any info, was available. I got a canned response saying thanks for the email, we will respond as soon as possible. Sounds like I wont get an answer.

Is there anyway to get info from these people easier? There wasnt a phone number on the website that I could find....

There is a pretty dilapitated looking building at 30th and Fall Creek that looks like it was once an apartment building or something. Its an old brick structure that looks like it could be rehabbed into something pretty nice looking.

If it is the board up on the corner that backs up to the gas station, then it had fairly extensive fire damage at some point. Probably more expensive to fix than it looks. I also don't think it has parking, which makes it less attractive for investors.

Recent photos of Carmel City Center here (http://www.carmelcitycenter.com/pcd_ccc/photo_tour.aspx)

Recent photos of Carmel City Center here (http://www.carmelcitycenter.com/pcd_ccc/photo_tour.aspx)

This is such a weird development. Its like a little fake city... It reminds me of the WalMart stores that have facades that look like small buildings so that its not just a big grey box. I like sustainable and walkable urban communities, which seems like their goal, but it reminds me of the mega hotels in Las Vegas where you could live the rest of your life without leaving. I guess it is all in how it is executed. My initial opinion of this project is mostly negative, but that is probably me projecting my dislike for the ubiquity of urban sprawl. This might be something different. Ill have to learn more about it and see how the finished product turns out. It is interesting if nothing else.

More pics and renders (http://www.facebook.com/photos.php?id=54966649964)

I live in southern broad ripple. We bought the house almost 2 years ago. this past summer we put a new exterior door in place of a window and when we started tearing into the walls, we discovered this. It would explain why interior walls are cold to the touch (currently). Its funny that you posted this becaues with all the recent posts on here, it got me thinking about what I could do to try and cure this, and make my home more energy efficient. Short of cutting holes in the wall between joists and shooting something in there, I cant think of anything else. Im not reasonably experienced when it comes to doing this kind of work, but it seems like what would need to happen.

That said, I imagine there are a LOT of homes out there like this. And I dont live in what I would consider a run down neighborhood either.

Exactly so.

When I had my MK house, I looked into it. The only solution at the time was drilling holes in the exterior siding and sheathing and injecting the foam-in-place insulation into each stud cavity in the house framing. Even then, if there were fireblocks (likely in balloon framing) the insulation wouldn't fill the whole cavity and would be far less effective. And because there was a good bit of formaldehyde out-gassing involved in that process, I didn't pursue it: tightening up the house and sealing harmful vapors inside just didn't seem like a good thing to do.

It's an "era" thing. Plywood and homasote (pressed sawdust board) didn't come into use as exterior sheathing until after WWII. The combination of those with taped interior drywall joints did seal wall cavities up a little better and allowed the trapped air to perform a slight insulating function.

Most of the houses on the near east side are pre-WWII.

Modern houses use sheets of sheathing with a plastic wrap, and by itself that does a lot of sealing. Including insulation batting in the cavity and doing cavity sealing really makes a house tight...but without taking either the inside or outside wall surface off of the framing, it's an impossible retrofit for an old place.

That's the thing about "affordable" housing: people have to be able to afford to heat and cool the place after they make the monthly payment. A $300 monthly energy budget on top of a house payment of $700 won't cut it for someone who is stretched to make the house payment.

So, to make the near east side "affordable", it's going to require tearing down the marginal places and building new, smaller, energy-efficient homes. To preserve the big old houses, it's going to require gentrification, just as it did in the Old Northside, Herron Morton, and Woodruff Place. (Butler Tarkington and Meridian Kessler never really went downhill; those houses got recycled in the 70s, 80s, and 90s by people like me who bought the "worst house on the block" from older folks who'd lived there for 40 years and let it run down. Deferred maintenance, which is what many of you were talking about, is way different than decay and blight.)

I had blown in recycled material cellulose insulation, not foam, installed two years ago. 1890 balloon construction with fire blocks. $1,850 total. The key is finding the fire blocks. Fill the cavity, then tap to find where it is still hollow. Drill a hole below that fire block and continue to fill. I had to seal up some cavities in the basement so that the insulation would stay in the wall while being blown in, but nothing drastic. The whole project took the company 1.5 days. They pulg the holes with your choice of wood or plastic which disappear the next time you paint the exterior. (properly sanded wood plugs are not at all visible.) In the past two years I have recovered almost all of the cost. Definitely worth it and definitely a viable option for any wood frame house.