پیشنهاد احداث تراموا در خيابان ولي*عصر

تاريخ انتشار: ۰۱ شهريور ۱۳۸۸ - ۲۰

شهردار منطقه يك تهران گفت: پيشنهاد استفاده از تراموا به جاي BRT را به معاونت حمل و نقل و ترافيك تهران داده*ايم و در اين زمينه مذاكراتي با سرمايه*گذاران و شركت*هاي خارجي انجام شده است.

محمد احمدي بافنده در گفت*وگو با فارس افزود: مطابق برنامه خطوط اتوبوس تندرو **بايد تا ميدان تجريش ادامه پيدا كند اما از آنجا كه چهار راه پارك*وي نقش اساسي در ترافيك منطقه دارد، كار با برنامه*ريزي و زمانبندي معاونت حمل و نقل و ترافيك شهرداري تهران اجرايي مي*شود.


وي با اشاره به اينكه خيابان ولي*عصر(عج) حدفاصل چهار راه پارك وي تا ميدان تجريش مشخصات متفاوتي با ساير قسمت*هاي اين خيابان دارد، افزود: به دنبال اين هستيم كه به جاي BRT از ترامواي روي سطح (LRT) در اين محور استفاده كنيم. چراكه تراموا علاوه بر اينكه از لحاظ زيبايي با وضعيت منطقه متجانس*تر است، نسبت به اتوبوس داراي عرض كمتري است و در شيب* زياد اين خيابان استهلاك كمتري دارد.


شهردار منطقه يك تهران اظهار كرد: پيشنهاد استفاده از LRT را به معاونت حمل و نقل و ترافيك تهران داده*ايم و در اين زمينه مذاكراتي با سرمايه*گذاران و شركت*هاي خارجي انجام شده است.


وي با تأكيد بر اينكه اجراي طرح LRT مغايرتي با BRT ندارد، گفت: فضايي كه مورد استفاده اتوبوس*هاي تندرو قرار مي*گيرد مي*تواند در آينده به LRT
اختصاص يابد.


http://www.tabnak.ir/fa/pages/?cid=60854

Brief:

Tehran's district 1 municipality has proposed an LRT system for Valiasr St. instead of a BRT line.

So far they have negotiated with some investors and foreign companies .

I hope at least they build the tramway since BRT buses are huge.. but best would be to build subway instead of all these stupid things..

^ Agreed that a tramline would be better than BRT simply down to their size. I think for Valiasr both subway and over ground light rail will aid in reducing congestion but I doubt the traffic jams will be much better really.

^^ Yes, my friend in Tehran is saying that traffic has become so bad in the side streets of Vali Asr such as Jordan & jahane Koodak etc because of making it one way street in that area

IT WILL BE HORRIBLE!!!!

Valiasr str. is already to small! so are 70% of all Tehran streets......

valiasr has a huge car traffic and it's to small for all those cars and busses let alone that the will build a tramway in it! just sad!

I hope it will not go on....you see this is what we get if IRI plans projects---->ASHGAL, TRASH! tssss

we don't need trams we need a whole new road overhaul and they must make the streets, highways,....wider.

we don't need trams we need a whole new road overhaul and they must make the streets, highways,....wider.

That would involve demolishing the entire local area. :nuts:

^^what for choice do we have than....it's not only valiasr and stuff...

but look at the lower areas of tehran, parts like Sarsabil, Shohada, Eslamshahr,.....

this parts are more populated than the northern area.

their roads are soo small that even a paykan can't pass easely....

we must do something cause the traffic is getting worse and for sure not better.

but trams are not the sollution they will make the roads even smaller.

Tehran has huge infrastructure problems they must first think about that instead of saying tram? that sounds cool let's build it! haha it's not that cool at all...-.-

Tehr_IR, a tramway line is the cheapest and most efficient solution for Valiasr Ave.

Building tunnels is expensive and takes a lot of time, BRT lines take too much space and the buses use petrol, and expanding the street width will destroy the old and large trees next to the side walks, besides the aim is to make people drive less and use public transport.

^^haha and you think people will do that. many people love their cars here, you should know that....if you don't have a car in Tehran it's like you have nothing......

and besides they must to something about it soon or later even if it will destroy some trees.

and you think a tram line will not take much space???.....

Cheap or expensive, Iran has a lot of money more than you think...the problem is that the ayathollahs fill their own pockets whit it!..

Tehran's infrastructure is just sad....

and it's not only valiasr that has such a problem but also many southern areas that are even worse.

Tehran's population is over 14 million (metro) and the streets are so small as sidewalks...

if they really want do something about the traffic they can put pressure on IranKhodro and Saipa and stuff to not produce thousands of cars everyday and sell it....

this is just a fact: they must remove some trees to get better comfort and less traffic or they can keep the trees and build trams and stuck for hours in traffic....it's their choice.

^^haha and you think people will do that. many people love their cars here, you should know that....if you don't have a car in Tehran it's like you have nothing......

and besides they must to something about it soon or later even if it will destroy some trees.

and you think a tram line will not take much space???.....

Cheap or expensive, Iran has a lot of money more than you think...the problem is that the ayathollahs fill their own pockets whit it!..

Tehran's infrastructure is just sad....

and it's not only valiasr that has such a problem but also many southern areas that are even worse.

Tehran's population is over 14 million (metro) and the streets are so small as sidewalks...

if they really want do something about the traffic they can put pressure on IranKhodro and Saipa and stuff to not produce thousands of cars everyday and sell it....

this is just a fact: they must remove some trees to get better comfort and less traffic or they can keep the trees and build trams and stuck for hours in traffic....it's their choice.

Wider and roads is not a practical answer for an established city. I studied this at university. Widening streets in cities has been shown time and again to make almost no relief to congestion at all where cars are the primary mode of transport. The reasons are too complex to go into here. Tokyo is a good example of a city that has outgrown the car and people are naturally forced onto public transport. The streets there are very narrow and there is absolutely no possibilty of widening all the streets. They would have to knock it down completely and rebuild it low density, like Riyadh or LA and then it would take up almost half the island of Honshu, not to mention the horrific enviromental consequences. What Tehran needs to do is develop public transport infrastructure and force people to leave their cars at home. Yes people may be used to driving, but they have to change their habits. For a city like Tehran there is no alternative to increased use of public transport other than gridlock and misery.

^^haha and you think people will do that. many people love their cars here, you should know that....if you don't have a car in Tehran it's like you have nothing......

But most people in their right mind avoid using their car and use taxis/motorbikes or public transport (where available) to get around the city, particularly during business hours. It is the evening when absolutely everyone hops into their cars. The reason behind the traffic is simple, Tehran has a gargantuan population and the best thing to do is discourage on going rural-urban migration and to promote the opposite.

Tehran's infrastructure is just sad....

Actually Tehran has pretty good infrastructure for a developing country. It is completely hampered by Iranian attitudes to driving and chaotic overground public transport.

if they really want do something about the traffic they can put pressure on IranKhodro and Saipa and stuff to not produce thousands of cars everyday and sell it....


This is probably the most naive part of your post, I have heard quite a few Iranians make this ridiculous comment also, so they should tell an economic power house to stop trading to achieve exactly what? Nothing apart from damaging the economy. If the people want to buy cars they will do so regardless to IKCO. The automotive boom was not purely because IKCO upped its production with new models but more to do with the global economic boom putting more money into people's pockets to be able to buy their primary and then later secondary cars.

^^IranKhodro was bankrupt in may, the IRI gave them like milliards of tomans to save them...
sure the IRI can put pressure...
also my dad has an IranKhodro company here and he says that IranKhodro just sell cars to everyone if you know what I mean...

maybe Tehran has good infrastructure but for sure not good enough...
if we had we didn't stuck for 4 hours in traffic!

besides Tehran gets every month 1000 new habitans, they must first do something about that...like:
they can improve education and stuff and work in other cities...so that they not have to move to Tehran anyway trams are a bad idea that's just my opinion... the best is that they expand the metro lines.....

And why do governments bail out their massive (failing) home corporations, because the feel like it or because they have to protect their economy? Actually you are completely proving my point, cheers.

^^maybe :)

I just gave my opinion and that was that trams are a bad idea...

...their roads are soo small that even a paykan can't pass easely....

Paykan mean policeman? In Serbian there is one sleng word for policeman "paykan"...there are some Iranian words in Serbian became by Turkish...

we must do something cause the traffic is getting worse and for sure not better.

but trams are not the sollution they will make the roads even smaller.

Tehran has huge infrastructure problems they must first think about that instead of saying tram? that sounds cool let's build it! haha it's not that cool at all...-.-
- Tramways have separate lanes, and when everything on surface don`t move, tramways still move.
- They are more comfortable for riding, and more friendly for round area. That is the reason why in tramway streets are more shops and other little business objects (it is more comfortable when tram pass near someone then bus or car, by air quality and safety). Sometimes, tramways are parts of pedestrian zones.
- It is cheaper then metro, and it is useful like middle-high capacity transit. The costs of 1km tramway can be 8-10x cheaper then metro.
- Better using of lanes. Capacity of car lane is about 1500-1800 cars/hour with 2000-2500 people/h, walking 10.000 people/h, bus 8.000-15.000, tramway (light rail) 20.000-30.000, subway 40.000-70.000, regional railway truck 100.000-120.000 people/hour. Everything is per one direction (one lane or truck). With traffic lights, capacity can be 30-50% of those datas.
- Max capacity of car lane is at speed 12km/h, busses 20-25 km/h, tramway 30km/h, but if it is articulated 50km/h. As transport unit is longer, capacity and speed with max capacity are higher.
- In some developed and reach cities in Europe (Swiss, Germany), 60-70% people who have car use tramways (or other light rail). But, I don`t know can we compare Iranian and Europen habits? If tramway would be instaled in any Iranian city, and if it would wait 3 years for effect, we would know...
- Subway is unuseful for <2-3km transit.

Paykan mean policeman? In Serbian there is one sleng word for policeman "paykan"...there are some Iranian words in Serbian became by Turkish...

No, it's the name of a car!

- Tramways have separate lanes, and when everything on surface don`t move, tramways still move.
- They are more comfortable for riding, and more friendly for round area. That is the reason why in tramway streets are more shops and other little business objects (it is more comfortable when tram pass near someone then bus or car, by air quality and safety). Sometimes, tramways are parts of pedestrian zones.
- It is cheaper then metro, and it is useful like middle-high capacity transit. The costs of 1km tramway can be 8-10x cheaper then metro.
- Better using of lanes. Capacity of car lane is about 1500-1800 cars/hour with 2000-2500 people/h, walking 10.000 people/h, bus 8.000-15.000, tramway (light rail) 20.000-30.000, subway 40.000-70.000, regional railway truck 100.000-120.000 people/hour. Everything is per one direction (one lane or truck). With traffic lights, capacity can be 30-50% of those datas.

- In some developed and reach cities in Europe (Swiss, Germany), 60-70% people who have car use tramways (or other light rail). But, I don`t know can we compare Iranian and Europen habits? If tramway would be instaled in any Iranian city, and if it would wait 3 years for effect, we would know...
- Subway is unuseful for <2-3km transit.

Please bear in mind that we are talking about a city of 14 millions or more. As you correctly elaborated, subway is useful for transit of >2-3 kms. Vali Asr is 19 km down from Meydan Tajrish (north of town) to Rah Ahan (central railway station), see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valiasr_Street. It is the main north-south avenue. A metro line (number 3) is planned along this street and beyond (see http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=4366318&postcount=1), which is of course the only viable public transport system in this case unless you don't want to end up like Istanbul.

In Istanbul a modern tram was built in 1991 from the (periferic) metro station Aksaray to the city center (Sirkeci Railway Station). If you have ever travelled in this line, you know what I mean. Although it has a separate lane, it is always extreemly crowded and very slow due to the long stops for passengers boarding into the crowd.

This does not mean that tram may not be an option for Tehran, as long as it is not a substitute for metro. Metro and suburban rail must be the basic transportaion network for the metropolitan area of Tehran, then comes tram and other surface transport. Tehran also started to built a trolleybus system in 1991, but up to now there is only one line operational (with separate lane) from Emam Hossein to Terminal Shomal (Northern bus terminal).

So it would be another system after metro, otobus barghi (trolleybus) and bus. Every system has a different task to do, so it has to be seen if tram is another option to add. And, yes I know, somebody is talking about monorail - Ahmadi's child when he was mayor of Tehran, now as "elected" president the child has grown up and has become Maglev to Mashad or Jamkaran :-)

Trams would indeed be useful for other Iranian cities. And Mashad has built a tram (LRT) which still has no rolling stock on tracks :-(

I think the tram would work very well in conjunction with the metro line. If you have to get to particular place on Valiasr then it may still be relatively far from a metro station and you would use a combination of metro and tram to get there. Or if you are just travelling from one part of Valiasr to another you could just use the tram.

very good idea

valiasr is not connected with the metro. tehran needs to build more trams and lower the amount of buses.

I dont get why peoples objections torwards trams. trams are the same as buses only with a much higher capacity.
did you have any objections against buses in tehran so far?

and one-way streets are something inevitable in big cities

But for example the BRT line in Tehran and Tabriz have the same usage as tram's. When we have BRT lines why do we need tram's which are really used in cities in which the tram line was established 40/50 years ago. I don't think that nowadays a city would establish a tram line... . Some of the cities with tram lines are going to remove the line...

But for example the BRT line in Tehran and Tabriz have the same usage as tram's. When we have BRT lines why do we need tram's which are really used in cities in which the tram line was established 40/50 years ago. I don't think that nowadays a city would establish a tram line... . Some of the cities with tram lines are going to remove the line...

as already said trams have a much higher capacity than buses, as you can carry more weight on rails than on tires.
they are more expensive than buses because you have to lay the rails first, but it always proves to be worthy. especially heavily crowded iranian cities need trams for their surface transport, already now all buses are always full to the roof.

also trams are needed next to metros, because the distance between the stations is much less than with a metro (just like buses). riding through two stations in a metro can have you passing two whole city districts

^^Okay, but the buses in Iran mostly aren't articulated buses... so there is a huge potential in this sector.

There are many cities putting in tram systems today to reduce the amount of busses and increase capacity. In Europe at least they have been proliferating in recent years. I dont know of any city anywhere actually removing trams. That would be a definate backward step. They did that in the 1950 and 60s in some countries when busses were in fashion and seen as more efficient. But the general consensus on the issue has changed in favour of trams a while back. BRT is usually just a stop-gap measure when the ultimate goal is for a metro, LRT or tram line.

In Istanbul a modern tram was built in 1991 from the (periferic) metro station Aksaray to the city center (Sirkeci Railway Station). If you have ever travelled in this line, you know what I mean. Although it has a separate lane, it is always extreemly crowded and very slow due to the long stops for passengers boarding into the crowd.
In the Istanbul is problem: whereever they dig a ground, they find some arheological reach. That is the reason why after 20 years of building urban rails, they have only short part of M1 underground in old city. Finishing of building under Bosphorus tunel is delayed from 2009 to 2014 because they find some new arheological reaches. Tram in downtown is the most succeseful they could do in that case. I think that that problem would be in Esfahan.
Same problem is in Rome, where after 60 years building metro have only 2 lines.

But for example the BRT line in Tehran and Tabriz have the same usage as tram's. When we have BRT lines why do we need tram's which are really used in cities in which the tram line was established 40/50 years ago. I don't think that nowadays a city would establish a tram line... . Some of the cities with tram lines are going to remove the line...
Look at this link:
http://www.trams-in-france.net
Before 25 years there was only 3 tramlines in all France, now there is 20 cities with tramways, and 10 build it.
After that look at the bottom of this page:
http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/euromet.htm
And pay atention of dates of opening tramlines in west Europe cities.

There are many cities putting in tram systems today to reduce the amount of busses and increase capacity. In Europe at least they have been proliferating in recent years. I dont know of any city anywhere actually removing trams. That would be a definate backward step. They did that in the 1950 and 60s in some countries when busses were in fashion and seen as more efficient. But the general consensus on the issue has changed in favour of trams a while back. BRT is usually just a stop-gap measure when the ultimate goal is for a metro, LRT or tram line.


Look at this link:
http://www.trams-in-france.net
Before 25 years there was only 3 tramlines in all France, now there is 20 cities with tramways, and 10 build it.
After that look at the bottom of this page:
http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/euromet.htm
And pay atention of dates of opening tramlines in west Europe cities.

Okay, I thought the removing of tram lines in some cities would be going on... . However, thank you Herbicide and Rail_Serbia for your information.:)

Dresden, Amsterdam, Zurich and Vienna use cargo trams to reduce pollution in the city centre.
Dresden:
http://tram-2.andreetjes-website.nl/cargo_tram_amsterdam/dresden_001.jpghttp://tram-2.andreetjes-website.nl/cargo_tram_amsterdam/friedrichstad_003.jpg
Amsterdam:
http://tram-2.andreetjes-website.nl/cargo_tram_amsterdam/citycargo_801_l_akp.jpghttp://tram-2.andreetjes-website.nl/cargo_tram_amsterdam/spijkstaal_0453.jpg
Zurich:
http://tram-2.andreetjes-website.nl/cargo_tram_amsterdam/zurich_004_gueterwagen.jpg
Other cities are also planning freight services. :)

Tram systems are being built all over Turkey. One of the latest systems to open is in Antalya:
http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt144/maddox-07/SP_A1673.jpg

i think it will be ugly in tehran to be honest..

ghashaangie tehran be hamine.. tram bezaran dige kheyli bad mishe benazare man.. hamoon metro aaz hamashoon behtare.

^^ It wont be ugly! Traffic jams and streets full of busses are ugly. Trams are the mark of a developed country with advanced infrastructure.

^^ It wont be ugly! Traffic jams and streets full of busses are ugly. Trams are the mark of a developed country with advanced infrastructure.
Believe me it's gonna get ugly and bad if they going to build this in Tehran
this is why they are building it under ground

Believe me it's gonna get ugly and bad if they going to build this in Tehran
this is why they are building it under ground

On what basis do you say that? I have a degree in Transport Management with my honours in Urban Rail Based Public Trasport Infrastructure Development. I know the more rail based tranport you can squeeze into Tehran the better it will be for the city. You dont usually put trams underground except in short underpasses. An underground or elevated line is Metro. As a dense city grows you have to shift an increasing proportion of commuters onto public tranport, prefferably rail based (trams, metro, LRT and urban rail). Cities that dont are either very low density or gridlocked. Tehran is dense and already gridlocked for alot of the time. Shifting more road vehicles off important city centre arterial routes in favour of higher capacity rail based forms of transport i.e. trams that shift more people through the streets more quickly is essential at some point to maintain or improve the economic, social and enviromental health of the city and its central business district. Otherwise gridlock becomes a permanent daytime fixture that adversely affects peoples health and the economy as the people spend too long commuting and the most important areas of the city become almost inaccessible. Pandering to car drivers who are clogging the streets is a recipe for disaster. They need to be taken out of their cars and put on public transport through inducements and penalties. Penalties would include making petrol realistically priced, blocking and restricting access to cars on certain streets and conjestion charging. Inducements would be provided simultaneously and involve the provision of an extensive, efficient, comfortable and cheap public transport network.

It will be maybe efficient (in some areas) but I have to agree with some others, it will be look ugly...

^^What are you talking about??
Which is uglier?
This
http://www.trams-in-france.net/drap/par302.jpg
or this?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2417/2197286856_242719ac35.jpg

Look at picture above, and try imagine that this is stopped clip. And imagine two tram lanes in the middle, and tramways on it. When you turn on clip cars and busses are move still slow, but trams still move, and fast.

Design is the smallest problem. The highest level of automatisation in tramway producing is half-automatic, because the trams order in small batches of products. There are a lot of diferent designs of Alstom Citadis with just same vehicles (tehnicaly).

There would be other problems like safety, politcs and road lobies, tehnical knowledge (To don't do like Mashad, have railtrucks, have second hand rolling stocks, but don't use them. Same vehicles are 17 years still in exploatation in Turkish Konya).

I grew up near tramways (and a lot of people in Europe), but it is hard to explain to someone who have no expirience with trams.

To people who have no experience of trams, trams can carry many times the amount of people that a bus can, are smoother and faster and dont usually get caught in traffic congestion, as they usually have their own lanes. They take thousands of people who would otherwise have made the journey by car or taxi, greatly reducing traffic congestion in the street contrary to your fears that they would rob road space from cars. They also make a significant impact on improving air quality as they are electric while busses spew out alot of exhaust fumes.
They dont look ugly, they can look however you want them to as there are so many different designs of modern trams out there, some of which look absolutely stunning:
http://www.trams-in-france.net/intro.jpghttp://www.trams-in-france.net/dlav/val11.jpghttp://www.trams-in-france.net/dmel/lem03.jpghttp://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2009/01/30/tram22_k34gg_5965.jpghttp://www.subways.net/italy/milantram02.jpghttp://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,1245217,00.jpghttp://www.trams-in-france.net/drob/bor09.jpg

Believe me it's gonna get ugly and bad if they going to build this in Tehran
this is why they are building it under ground

I would like to add some pictures to show how tram lines can improve street design:

Barcelona
http://www.tramway.at/projekt_04/www.tramway.at_barcelona-04.jpg

http://www.viennaslide.com/p/0540-spain/Barcelona/Walden_04..jpg

Can you immagine, let's say, Boulvard Keshavarz with a tram like this?

here is more:

http://www.viennaslide.com/p/0540-spain/Barcelona/Av.Diagonal_Franc_esc_Macia_03.jpg

http://www.viennaslide.com/p/0540-spain/Barcelona/Av.Diagonal_Franc_esc_Macia_02.jpg

http://www.viennaslide.com/p/0540-spain/Barcelona/St.Marti_de_l%27Erm_04.jpg

Nantes, France
http://www.tramway.at/projekt_04/www.tramway.at_nantes-01.jpg

Amsterdam
http://www.tramway.at/projekt_04/www.tramway.at_amsterdam.jpg

All pictures from www.tramway.at by Harald A. Jahn (vienna@tramway.at) who has written an interesting page about the advantages of modern tramway systems (in German).


In the Istanbul is problem: whereever they dig a ground, they find some arheological reach. That is the reason why after 20 years of building urban rails, they have only short part of M1 underground in old city. Finishing of building under Bosphorus tunel is delayed from 2009 to 2014 because they find some new arheological reaches. Tram in downtown is the most succeseful they could do in that case.


I wanted to show that tram is not an alternative to metro. The Istanbul tram line to the center is definitly overloaded and can never replace the load of a metro. So tram on Vali Asr - as long as we are not talking about the northern section of this avenue - is not an alternative to the planned metro line 3.

In the following map I have drawn the existing metro lines in Tehran
1 (blue)
2 (red)
4 (violet) - central section completed

and the planned line 3 under Vali Asr (green), touching the central railway station in the south (black line).


http://www.msedv.com/rai/images/tehrantram2.jpeg

As we can see all existing and planned metro lines create a dense pattern in the city core, i.e. the area between Enqelab and Sepah (Emam Khomeini) avenues. The lines extend into outer areas and the suburbs. In this frame line 3 (green, under Vali Asr) has an important role as it connects the railway station and reinforces the north-south relation. This cannot be achieved by a tram line.

I also tried to immagine a tram connection (yellow line, 11 km), mainly on the axis from Haft-e-Tir to Meydan Vali Asr and Parkeh Laleh, on Boulvard Karim Khan Zand and Boulvard Keshawarz. It is all but a serious proposal, just to show the role a tramway line could have in Tehran:
secondary to metro but much better than buses.

I like the street design in those pictures but, I don't think that Tehran's streets have enough space for such designs...

^^Space is the easiest problem to deal with. $ is what matters!

By fact, Tram will help Iran's mega city look much more modem and desirable.

I like the street design in those pictures but, I don't think that Tehran's streets have enough space for such designs...

Karim Khan Zand has 33 meters, Boulvard Keshavarz has 55 meters and a "normal" main street like Kargar has still 25 meters.

The example in Barcelona (second picture) has 25 m of section. I would say there is plenty of space for a nice design on Tehran's avenues...

Maybe it will be necessary to sacrify one lane of cars, and this may hurt somebody. But the people moved by tram make a much better use of (restricted) urban space, see

http://www.tramway.at/13/www.tramway.at_13_03.jpg

218 persons = 1 tram = 2 articulated buses = 145 cars

(courtesy of www.tramway.at (http://www.tramway.at))

Ok, in Tehran we do not have 1,5 person per car, but maybe an average of 3. But 72 cars is still a lot more space to be occupied.

I like the street design in those pictures but, I don't think that Tehran's streets have enough space for such designs...
Lack of space is a reason to put trams in. They dont take up as much space as hundreds of cars and busses, which is what would be used otherwise. You need to put passenger journeys onto higher capacity forms of transport when space in the street becomes scarce. You could block access to private cars completley, widen the pavements and put in a grassed central reservation (or even flowerbeds) along which the trams travel when you introduce the trams and more people would be travelling along Valiasr than before. The approximate maximum flow of people along a lane of road is 2000 per hour. This is when its not so busy in Tehran. When it gets busier than that the flow of traffic dramatically reduces as you get heavy traffic and then a traffic jam when the flow of people stops just when its needed most. The more demand there is for a vehicle lane over a limit of 2000 journeys per hour, the less people will actually pass along it.
However the maximum amount of people that can pass along a tram lane per hour is approximately in the region of 16,000 to 20,000 depending on variables in the system implemented. Lanes for trams are the same width practically as vehicle lanes. Also when demand exceeds supply on a tram line you dont get the spectacular collapse in flow of people that you get with a vehicle lane. The tram will just continue to transport people at maximum capacity.

^^I never thought a tram could be that modern and good...I thought that tram's are now oldies...like in many cities. But this idea of the green space and on it the tram fits exactly to the Valiasr street with all the tree's there. Hopefully Qalibaf implants this project. That would be great, at least better than a one way street which is really a solution for just a few years, after that a one way street also can't resolve the problem.

I also tried to immagine a tram connection (yellow line, 11 km), mainly on the axis from Haft-e-Tir to Meydan Vali Asr and Parkeh Laleh, on Boulvard Karim Khan Zand and Boulvard Keshawarz. It is all but a serious proposal, just to show the role a tramway line could have in Tehran:
secondary to metro but much better than buses.
That is the point!:)
Tramways have average spead 15-25km/h (depend of properties), but save energy, oxigen in downtown, and it is for jurneys 1-12 km. By better accessibility it is concurence to metro for <2,5km, for 2,5<X<6km it is shared zones, and for longer jurney metro is better (if there is metro).
As we can see all existing and planned metro lines create a dense pattern in the city core, i.e. This cannot be achieved by a tram line.

For cities like Istanbul and Tehran metro need to be frame network, but Paris tried to replace all surface with standard "one underground station in 500m for evry point". They made mistake because metro became very slow, sometimes need changing 3-4 times lines (all are linear metros), and they should add bus network and RER like rapid regional metro. They just started to make new tramlines before 20 years, and now have 40km with plans for new extensions. Only metro with surface can make effective "spider network" for public transport. Don`t remember that cities like New York, Paris, Moscow, London have only 25-35% of all city transit by metro!

Not only in France, tramway systems was destroyed in a lot of European and North American cities, in NA in 1930-ies and 1940-ies, in Europe in 1950-ies and 1960-ies, because there was cheap oil, busses was new fashion, old tramways was little and slow (at begginings of trams with max speed 30-40km/h they was faster then anything), development of tramway technology was stopped. Also old tramways didn`t have tramway lanes in downtown and had lot of traffic problems with more and more cars and busses.

In NA only Toronto, Boston and New Orleans saved tramways. In west Europe, there was few cities where was very hard organisations for saving them like people and cultural reach. In Germany, Belgium, Netherland and Swiss they saved tramway systems, and (especialy in Germany), they converted it in at second half of XX century in underground tramways (light rail). In NA they started for 1980-ies to build light rails (underground in downtown, tramways in wide area of the city). And for this year start new age for tramways like light rail. At last 20 years there was many new tram (light rail) systems in Turkey, France, Portugal, Italy, England. There was also in Atina and Tunisia.

In socialistic countries the most of tram systems was saved. Just now, Russia is the country with the most tram systems in the world, but now Russia and Ukraina neglect there tram systems when all the world build new:bash: They just need only some modernisation.

Just in former Yugoslavia there was tramways in Ljubljana, Maribor, Portoroz (Slovenia), Osijek, Opatija, Dubrovnik, Zagreb, Rijeka (Croatia), Sarajevo (Bosnia), Subotica, Novi Sad, Beograd, Nis (Serbia). For those 13 there was saved only 4 (Zagreb, Osijek, Sarajevo, Beograd), and other was closed 1956 or 1959 (Subotica 1973.) for same reason like in west Europe. When Zagreb, Osijek and Sarajevo never cutted there systems, Beograd lost (the rest of rotting capitalism:bash:) trams in the middle of downtown in 1947, and replace it with ( symbol of a new socialist era) trolleybusses. In 1980-ies there was extensions of tram network to suburbs, but they will never build again trams in the middle of downtown. Since the Beograd metro they remained only politicians promisses, and urban structure with unplanned building need metro, but by now tramway with lot of (traffic mistakes) is the best transportation in Beograd. Some advocates of the metro very ugly talk about the tram considering it a way to evade the metro, which is not correct.

herbicide, the more you post pics of super modern looking tams, the more people here will find them ugly.

I can only understand them a bit. they think these trams dont fit into the picture of tehran, and thats not that wrong.
however whats driving along iranian streets currently is not much prettier, especially those ugly iran khodro buses stuck in the heavy traffic.

and there are also very moderate (and at the same time modern) looking trams that would fit into tehrans picture very well.
here for example is made by alstom. they also produce locomotives for iranian railways

http://www.tram-info.de/wagenp/darmstadt/0787.jpg
http://www.tram-info.de/wagenp/darmstadt/0775.jpg

I could picture this one very well in tehrans streets, including valiasr. also the color can be chosen in a way that it that it fits to the rest of the city. I would say in tehrans case it would be a warm color.

I think the streets of tehran are very suited for trams. they are all very broad already, with often 3 lanes on each side.
they only need to sacrifice on lane on each side.


from what I have heard tehranis are very ready to leave the car at home and use public transportation, in case they could reach their destination with public transport as well.
so I think once we have a decent system of metro's, trams and buses all linked with each other, reaching every corner of the city, we will have a decrease of cars on the streets.
those who still want to drive cars because they "goshad tashif daran" (:D), need to be taught a lesson. they need to sit in their car, stuck in traffic, breathing in the fumes, sweating their asses off and then see a tram passing them very smoothly and efficient being much faster than them, so they can draw their conclusions themselves then.


trams have an average high speed of 80 km/h

badgir, I never knew anything of that planned metro line 3.

do you have more information on it?

it seems to be an awesome idea. I was always thinking that the central station needed to be connected by the metro, and also that only one north-south line wasnt enough for a huge city like tehran.
its good that they are building a metro. trams cant replace metro's anyway. trams have a too low capacity, speed and distance between stations in comparison to metro's.
so they could never embody the sole public transport connection of the central railway station of tehran.
nevertheless the central station has to be connected with the valiasr-tram as well.


anytime I'm thinking that people over there in iran are stupid, I am proven a better.
I was also thinking that how stupid they were to not connect the mehrabad airport with the metro, untill I found out that they were already :D
there are many more such examples.

badgir, I never knew anything of that planned metro line 3.

do you have more information on it?

it seems to be an awesome idea. I was always thinking that the central station needed to be connected by the metro, and also that only one north-south line wasnt enough for a huge city like tehran.



Here is the network map from Tehran's Municipality Website with planned lines included:

http://en.tehran.ir/Portals/25/Image/1386/51/TehranRoutes-M-01.jpg

From South to North, (planned) line 3 follows the spur of the Tehran-Qom railway, passes right under the Railway station, then follows the southern section of Vali Asr up to Abbas Abad (Beheshti), following the latter to end somewhere in Majidiyeh.

Indeed the northern part of Valiasr has no metro planned, so tram may be an option. But the original post was talking about tram INSTEAD of metro, which in my opinion is wrong.

Here are more details about the network design:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=4366318&postcount=1

Tram is specialy good in the vicinity of the railway and bus stations. If some person, especialy if he/her isn`t so strong it is uncomfortable going upstairs, downstairs, changing more lines. If he/her is turist, it is better to see aboveground city and (commercial objects, better for turistic economy). By statistics I got, old people don`t want to use subways so much.

The best is to have plan for 200km of subway, and 300-400km of tramway like secondary network, because, there are a lot of short distance transport needs. Density is one of parameters of good transport network.

Just imagine anything other on the surface in those streets: Eskisehir and Zagreb. Trams are often symbols of the city, one of the first thing someone see exiting the railway station.
http://aycu24.webshots.com/image/40903/2000057627208659272_rs.jpg
http://i37.************/23kyipl.jpg

One more picturee from Eskisehir:
http://aycu03.webshots.com/image/38762/2004073462861836439_rs.jpg

Few from Zagreb:
http://sim.1g.fi/kuvat/Raitiovaunuja/D2C22685.jpg/medium
http://sim.1g.fi/kuvat/Raitiovaunuja/D2C22624.jpg/medium
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x89/deko1111/DSC_8228.jpg

I like those old trams from Zagreb, but by next year, they would be only in museum.
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o197/deko1243/DSC_5903.jpg

Just imagine anything other on the surface in those streets: Eskisehir and Zagreb.


I like the first picture, it could be very much Valiasr. Just I cannot see the joobs in he picture :-)
(For those who don't know, the joobs are those water canals between the sidewalks and the street which are so typical for many streets in Tehran)

any news?? updates?? i would love to see a tram in tehran

imagine a day central tehran becomes pedestrianized, with modern trams oooohhh daaammmnnn thatl be sexy

search it

So is it going ahead, I was in some southern area of Tehran the other day and was suprised to see some tram system, I am not sure which area it was placed in but I was pleasantly suprised by this!

^^ that might of bewn the tehran-rey tram line that closed in the 1950s

^^
I wouldnt have thought even a trace of that would be left.

idunko it might be that, i dun think they removed the rails, i mean, they wouldnt care haha

like theres still some electric wires over the streets of central tehran where there used to be electric buses, man what happened to those?


anywa, i hope they make the tramway line so it can replace the brt, the brt is better in other places it just takes too much space in pahlavi street , a tramway is perfect especially like the one in zagreb oh itl be so functional and efficient

Well there was still electric trolley busses between Meydan Emam Khomeini and Terminal e Sharq last time I was there in April 2008.

^^ I don't think they're in use anymore (or partially). The cables in Damavand street are being removed now.

Have a look here: http://www.mehrnews.com/fa/newsdetail.aspx?NewsID=1260106

^^ Damn! Thats a real pity. Getting rid of electric busses and using busses that add to the severe pollution problem. Thats nuts!

I can confirm that the electrical buses are in use. I was there less than a week ago and it was operating.

I like to see these tramways
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/Tfs_noisylesec.jpg/800px-Tfs_noisylesec.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Paris_tramway_T3_p1140675.jpg/800px-Paris_tramway_T3_p1140675.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/TRAMWAY_t_3paris.jpg/800px-TRAMWAY_t_3paris.jpg

^^ khoda kone

anymore news on this?