Save the Hoan

[brewman]

With the debate heating up over whether to refurb the Hoan Bridge or replace it with something smaller, I would like to make the case for fixing her up and keeping a Milwaukee landmark in place.

Expensive repairs will need to be made soon (http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/54419507.html), while one (potentially-politically motivated) study says new development opportunities could result from a different bridge. The connection to downtown from the south shore suburbs needs to be maintained, not lessened with a less-efficient road.

State Sen. Jeff Plale (D-South Milwaukee) was skeptical of the development estimates presented. “I don’t see it,” he said. “I’m having a hard time seeing a $500,000 condo next to a Milorganite factory.

“All of that land is next to Jones Island and abuts a port and a sewerage treatment plant and those oil tanks. I don’t know who is going to plop a Nordstrom in the middle of that.”

Ditto. While I'm all for creating new development options, this area is not the place -- no matter who's getting into the pockets of the DOT.

[miltown]

IMO the bridge is ugly, I'd much rather replace the aging structure with a street level modern bridge that looks better and is functional. To say that this bridge is part of the skyline is a stretch and frankly when I'm driving South on 94 I'd rather see the lake and not a huge yellow bridge. Also it could help open open up a little bit of industrial land to expand industry in this city!

[He Named Thor]

I'm with you, the bridge should stay. And maybe be repainted.

Replacing 794 with a street level road with stoplights and a drawbridge also sounds like a huge step backward.

[socrates#1fan]

It isn't that attractive, but I see no reason in replacing it (especially if developers are creeping about).
It looks like a landmark.

[brewman]

IMO the bridge is ugly, I'd much rather replace the aging structure with a street level modern bridge that looks better and is functional. To say that this bridge is part of the skyline is a stretch and frankly when I'm driving South on 94 I'd rather see the lake and not a huge yellow bridge. Also it could help open open up a little bit of industrial land to expand industry in this city!

Expand industry? In case you haven't noticed, industry is running from this state at an alarming rate. If industry would want to come to Wisconsin at all, it won't locate in a hard-to-get-to location where the Hoan Bridge is. Milwaukee is hardly known as a "tax-free" zone -- there are other locations in SE Wisconsin that are more desireable these days. There would be no more idustry in this location, maybe some condos and shops, but this area is aesthetically-challenged with the waste treament plant, Jones Island, etc. A street level bridge you mention would not move traffic like we're used to with the Hoan. And, yes, the bridge has become a part of Milwaukee's skyline.

[Twoaday]

A lower bridge could handle the traffic with little impact to travel times to and from downtown, but the key isn't really a lower bridge it is the landing of the Hoan earlier and removing the flyover ramps and such. Because the land that could be opened up is the land in the Third Ward and Downtown near the lakefront, not near Jones Island. This has the potential to be some of the most prime land in Milwaukee (lakeview, third ward/downtown, near mam/discovery world).

Finally, regardless of what happens there will be connections to the southside from downtown.

[honest86]

I think the bridge should be replaced. I don't seen any justification for spending an extra $100 million just to maintain the bridge as it is when we can build a better bridge for less. Even without the redevelopment opportunity for some of the land, the benefits of replacing the bridge are still greater than rebuilding it, we can get bike lanes, and tie the bridge in better with street connections to the third ward, and bay view.

Why do we need a 6 lane highway bridge for 40,000 cars a day? There are city streets that handle more traffic than the Hoan. The bridge was originally over built as part of a larger plan to create a lakefront highway that would have ran along the lake shore and cut the entire city off from the lake, yet was never built.

Opponents of replacing the Hoan bridge have argued such ridiculous ideas such as putting a tollway on the Illinois border to pay for the bridge, and have stated that a shorter bridge will hurt the south side by drastically impacting travel times yet they have not provided any proof to back up their statements, and they have opposed any further study which might actually verify their claims. Opponents have worked hard trying to stifle any study on the issue while claiming the studies are a waste of money yet they continue to push for the most expensive option.

[Coldwake]

I'm not sure that this is the correct place for this thread... but I'll assume for now it is.

Right now the Hoan is designated as I-794. If it is built at street level without controlled exits and entrance ramps then it wouldn't qualify as an interstate route and then I wonder if we'd get the same federal dollars to pay for this road and it's maintenance as we do now with it being part of the interstate system.

Anyone know the answer to that?

[brewman]

I'm not sure that this is the correct place for this thread... but I'll assume for now it is.

Right now the Hoan is designated as I-794. If it is built at street level without controlled exits and entrance ramps then it wouldn't qualify as an interstate route and then I wonder if we'd get the same federal dollars to pay for this road and it's maintenance as we do now with it being part of the interstate system.

Anyone know the answer to that?

That is an excellent question. My guess would be no, federal money would not be available unless it was part of the "I" system. While I agree with some points about whether it's a wise investment to refurbish the Hoan, I think there is so much area available for development downtown that needs to be looked at first.

With the prospects grim for any large business locating in this area under the Hoan, what kind of development are we envisioning here? More half-empty condo buildings? You could extend the Summerfest grounds west, but there's litle tax incentive for that. Perhaps a year-round entertainment venue adjacent to the Third Ward? Then again, with The (Pabst) Brewery development struggling to get off the ground, this would be a stretch based on the lack of market demand for such venues (ie. the Catalyst).

Once again, it seems the city is lacking a comprehensive development plan for the next 10-20 years.

[Twoaday]

@brewman The Pabst isn't struggling at all, people are living there (Pabst Blue Ribbon Lofts), Cardinal Stritch has opened there, the new garage is up, the park is built (and very cool), many of the roads have gone in. It's moving along just fine.

The condo market in the Third Ward has to my knowledge 2 builds that have a significant number of units available. But the vast majority of condo developments in the Third Ward did well. No year round entertainment venue in the Third Ward this is where you put mixed-use residential (which includes office and retail). What the area needs is more population density. Finally, the condo development in downtown/third ward has been very important to the City of Milwaukee, so much so that the 10 most significant projects in the 3rd district represent more tax base than two Aldermanic districts, and likely use significantly less services.. Yup very important. And once again this land is different than the Park East. It is in the Third Ward near the lakefront.

There are neighborhood plans in place for a large part of the city and the downtown plan will be out soon.

[honest86]

If the federal government does business anything like the state, I would think that they would pay a premium to get the highway downgraded. I know that when the state rebuilds roadways right now they are often pressuring municipalities to take full control/ownership of the rebuilt roadway after construction so that it is no longer their responsibility so they can reduce their long term overhead.

[miltown]

Expand industry? In case you haven't noticed, industry is running from this state at an alarming rate. If industry would want to come to Wisconsin at all, it won't locate in a hard-to-get-to location where the Hoan Bridge is. Milwaukee is hardly known as a "tax-free" zone -- there are other locations in SE Wisconsin that are more desireable these days. There would be no more idustry in this location, maybe some condos and shops, but this area is aesthetically-challenged with the waste treament plant, Jones Island, etc. A street level bridge you mention would not move traffic like we're used to with the Hoan. And, yes, the bridge has become a part of Milwaukee's skyline.

Maybe you haven't heard about this water technology initiative, this crazy idea to attract water technology businesses to milwaukee?????? Also in the plans originally released the lowering would open up space around jones island, near water..... water tecnology!!!!!!

1 more challenge to those who say the bridge is part of the skyline.... find me a picture supporting that argument... i'm telling you it is a stretch to consider it part of the milwaukee skyline.

Low level avenue here we come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know we can call it Hoan Avenue to make some people feel better.

[brewman]

Maybe you haven't heard about this water technology initiative, this crazy idea to attract water technology businesses to milwaukee?????? Also in the plans originally released the lowering would open up space around jones island, near water..... water tecnology!!!!!!

1 more challenge to those who say the bridge is part of the skyline.... find me a picture supporting that argument... i'm telling you it is a stretch to consider it part of the milwaukee skyline.

Low level avenue here we come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know we can call it Hoan Avenue to make some people feel better.

Picture #1
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3592/3394322091_74daa5320d.jpg?v=1238333057

Picture #2
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3291/3069002047_fd5f42909b.jpg?v=0

Picture #3
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3021/3069861706_29941bfed5.jpg?v=0

Picture #4
http://image53.webshots.com/153/9/39/23/2184939230034368358khmkdO_fs.jpg

Picture #5
http://www.emporis.com/images/6/2007/11/573626.jpg

Picture #6
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/53/149067881_55376b243a.jpg?v=0

Picture #7
http://milwaukee.hyatt.com/hyatt/images/hotels/mkerm/gallery_2.jpg

Picture #8
http://fc00.deviantart.com/fs41/f/2009/041/5/c/Milwaukee_Night_Skyline_by_laszlo462.jpg

Picture #9
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/139/320752069_dccfdc9f7d.jpg?v=0

Picture #10
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/3766532.jpg

Now, how can you say the Hoan Bridge is not a part of Milwaukee's skyline?

[Milwaukee, WY]

Looks more like it's blocking the skyline. Point of fact: the bridge was named for Daniel Webster Hoan, who was, ironically, staunchly opposed to lakefront development, and likely would have scoffed at having his name on this structure. There isn't enough traffic on the roadway right now that lowering it and adding a drawbridge would cause any major traffic issues. Those opposed to that frequently leave out that there already is a signal on the road, at Oklahoma Ave. No one is suggesting getting rid of the link from downtown to the South Side. If anything, what I've heard is that travel times would be increased by a few minutes at the most, when the drawbridge is up. If the DOT says that it would cost almost as much to do a replacement as rehabbing the current one, I say they owe it to the taxpayers to get the most bang for the buck. They also say the bridge will still need to be completely replaced in 30 years regardless of what is done. So I say tear it down and replace it with something that integrates better with the street grid, a la 6th St viaduct.

I agree that this is the wrong place for this thread. And you should have credited the photographers for those photos you swiped from the internet.

[Twoaday]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2381/3829440087_a92b53e540.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davereid/3829440087/)


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2429/3829409345_c556e5ebb1.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davereid/3829409345/)

[ClarkWGriswald]

Looks more like it's blocking the skyline.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[araman0]

Looks more like it's blocking the skyline. Point of fact: the bridge was named for Daniel Webster Hoan, who was, ironically, staunchly opposed to lakefront development, and likely would have scoffed at having his name on this structure. There isn't enough traffic on the roadway right now that lowering it and adding a drawbridge would cause any major traffic issues.

John Nolen Dr. in Madison fits that example as well. John Nolen himself would probably roll over in his grave if he knew what John Nolen Dr. has done to separate downtown Madison from Lake Monona.

I dove on the recently rebuilt 794 south of the bridge this weekend. I've got to say that as far as freeways go, they did an incredibly nice job making the roadway look nice. There are trees and bushes planted in the median, nicely painted bridges, concrete walls that were made to look like stone, etc. It's still a freeway, but if we need to have them they might as well look like that. It would be nice if people arriving in Milwaukee from the airport could enter the city on this roadway.

[Jschmuck]

yeah, i vote its blocking the skyline.

I suggested on an outside blog that if/when this rebuild is done, perhaps the metal arch currently in place could be incorporated into the new smaller bridge somehow.

[He Named Thor]

I can't figure out how tearing up a limited access freeway and replacing it with a surface street complete with lights, a drawbridge, and (supposedly) tons of new commercial/retail development is magically going to not increase drive times.

[GarfieldPark]

And maybe there are more important things than maintaining travel time. Sounds like a good trade, in my opinion - to slow down travel time by four or five minutes and have an attractive street that encourages economic development alongside it.

[miltown]

Looks more like it's blocking the skyline. Point of fact: the bridge was named for Daniel Webster Hoan, who was, ironically, staunchly opposed to lakefront development, and likely would have scoffed at having his name on this structure. There isn't enough traffic on the roadway right now that lowering it and adding a drawbridge would cause any major traffic issues. Those opposed to that frequently leave out that there already is a signal on the road, at Oklahoma Ave. No one is suggesting getting rid of the link from downtown to the South Side. If anything, what I've heard is that travel times would be increased by a few minutes at the most, when the drawbridge is up. If the DOT says that it would cost almost as much to do a replacement as rehabbing the current one, I say they owe it to the taxpayers to get the most bang for the buck. They also say the bridge will still need to be completely replaced in 30 years regardless of what is done. So I say tear it down and replace it with something that integrates better with the street grid, a la 6th St viaduct.

I agree that this is the wrong place for this thread. And you should have credited the photographers for those photos you swiped from the internet.

Took the words right out of my mouth.


Finally some people that agree with me. It kills the skyline patched up asphalt isn't part of my ideal skyline!!! A state of the art lower bridge would do a lot more for this city than the hulking arching hoan with its miles and miles of cement, just what I like to see in my skyline GREY CEMENT!!!

[=dba=Ronin]

And maybe there are more important things than maintaining travel time. Sounds like a good trade, in my opinion - to slow down travel time by four or five minutes and have an attractive street that encourages economic development alongside it.

And where exactly would all this street level development go? Has anyone actually looked at what surrounds that entire stretch of freeway? Directly to the north you have Summerfest grounds and its associated parking pretty much until you hit downtown...and to the south is nothing but Jones Island until you hit Bayview. Maybe in a Jetson-eske type world where buildings are built on huge poles this could work, but not here.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=hoan+bridge&sll=43.022769,-87.882321&sspn=0.013664,0.032938&g=43.025247,-87.898779&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=43.024541,-87.906804&spn=0.026542,0.065875&z=15

[MilwaukeeD]

And where exactly would all this street level development go? Has anyone actually looked at what surrounds that entire stretch of freeway? Directly to the north you have Summerfest grounds and its associated parking pretty much until you hit downtown...and to the south is nothing but Jones Island until you hit Bayview. Maybe in a Jetson-eske type world where buildings are built on huge poles this could work, but not here.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=hoan+bridge&sll=43.022769,-87.882321&sspn=0.013664,0.032938&g=43.025247,-87.898779&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=43.024541,-87.906804&spn=0.026542,0.065875&z=15

The hope is that if you could land the bridge earlier, say by Buffalo or St. Paul, you could get rid of the flyover lanes in the St. Paul/Van Buren area, thus creating development parcels. It's really that simple, the flyover lanes aren't necessary and inhibit far too much land from being developed.

[miltown]

The hope is that if you could land the bridge earlier, say by Buffalo or St. Paul, you could get rid of the flyover lanes in the St. Paul/Van Buren area, thus creating development parcels. It's really that simple, the flyover lanes aren't necessary and inhibit far too much land from being developed.

It would be great to open up some land there, and maybe expand downtown a little bit one day...

[El Mariachi]

Tearing down the Hoan is utter madness. A little discussed issue is how it will negatively affect the Port of Milwaukee. They do good business down there----why rock the boat (pardon the pun)? Do we want more companies and jobs leaving the city and maybe the state for other Lake ports?

The view from the Hoan Bridge is the greatest in Milwaukee. Tearing it down destroys a view that will never be seen again.

[Milwaukee, WY]

Tearing down the Hoan is utter madness. A little discussed issue is how it will negatively affect the Port of Milwaukee. They do good business down there----why rock the boat (pardon the pun)? Do we want more companies and jobs leaving the city and maybe the state for other Lake ports?

The view from the Hoan Bridge is the greatest in Milwaukee. Tearing it down destroys a view that will never be seen again.

How do you know it will negatively affect the port? As far as I know, there is no discussion of, and/or feasible way they could lower the causeway that goes over Jones Island and over the port facilities. I've always enjoyed the view from the top of the bridge, but that is no reason to spend gazillions saving it. On the other hand, it also always seemed to me to be way too much bridge and roadway for what is needed in that place, even since the lake parkway opened.

A lift bridge would not doom the port to failure at all, so the jobs argument is weak and moot.

I say replace it with something that does not crowd the site that it sits on. Who knows? Maybe it will open up other fantastic skyline views that are now blocked by it's hulking mass.

[El Mariachi]

How do you know it will negatively affect the port? As far as I know, there is no discussion of, and/or feasible way they could lower the causeway that goes over Jones Island and over the port facilities. I've always enjoyed the view from the top of the bridge, but that is no reason to spend gazillions saving it. On the other hand, it also always seemed to me to be way too much bridge and roadway for what is needed in that place, even since the lake parkway opened.

A lift bridge would not doom the port to failure at all, so the jobs argument is weak and moot.

I say replace it with something that does not crowd the site that it sits on. Who knows? Maybe it will open up other fantastic skyline views that are now blocked by it's hulking mass.


It must be an issue because the director of the Port of Milwaukee is raising concern over this proposal. The Hoan Bridge connects the port with I-94 and I-43. Destroying this connection would makes transportation from the port more difficult and slow. From what I am seeing in the conceptual drawings, trucks would have to go through 2 roundabouts and deal with more street grid traffic. Also, in the conceptual drawings, they have taken away a sizeable portion of the port.

Don't get me wrong, I get just as excited for the possibilities for what could be if the Hoan wasn't there. But I think its ridiculous to tear down an entire freeway so they can build a couple condos and some more parkland at the expense of a successful, international port that provides this city with opportunity and jobs.

[brewman]

Looks more like it's blocking the skyline. Point of fact: the bridge was named for Daniel Webster Hoan, who was, ironically, staunchly opposed to lakefront development, and likely would have scoffed at having his name on this structure. There isn't enough traffic on the roadway right now that lowering it and adding a drawbridge would cause any major traffic issues. Those opposed to that frequently leave out that there already is a signal on the road, at Oklahoma Ave. No one is suggesting getting rid of the link from downtown to the South Side. If anything, what I've heard is that travel times would be increased by a few minutes at the most, when the drawbridge is up. If the DOT says that it would cost almost as much to do a replacement as rehabbing the current one, I say they owe it to the taxpayers to get the most bang for the buck. They also say the bridge will still need to be completely replaced in 30 years regardless of what is done. So I say tear it down and replace it with something that integrates better with the street grid, a la 6th St viaduct.

I agree that this is the wrong place for this thread. And you should have credited the photographers for those photos you swiped from the internet.

Settle down. The pictures are part of public domain on the internet. I never took credit for them, and it's not like I'm the first to borrow pictures. Are these your pictures? And just when I was going to compliment you on making a good case for your argument.

[Milwaukee, WY]

Delete.

[EastSider]

Ok, so I understand both sides of this argument, but this is what it comes down to for me:

Slowing down the commute for some south-side suburbs, vs. creating multiple new connections for the City of Milwaukee from Downtown to Bayview. I lived in Bayview the last two years, and I was stuck in traffic on the Hoan Bridge a total of one time.

Opponents of tearing down the bridge say they City of Milwaukee is putting their business interest before the interest of south-side commuters. Well they are, and I FULLY SUPPORT IT. The area around the Port is deteriorated and vacant, and the city has some big plans for the area. We've seen what the city can do when it has a good plan before (the Valley), so let's give them the tools to do it again.

The south-side suburbs (that aren't served by 43) are pissed because now the City might be able to attract industrial companies to the port area that may have relocated to their burbs...and they're right.

A stronger south-side City of Milwaukee, will make stronger south-side suburbs.

[EastSider]

And where exactly would all this street level development go? Has anyone actually looked at what surrounds that entire stretch of freeway? Directly to the north you have Summerfest grounds and its associated parking pretty much until you hit downtown...and to the south is nothing but Jones Island until you hit Bayview. Maybe in a Jetson-eske type world where buildings are built on huge poles this could work, but not here.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=hoan+bridge&sll=43.022769,-87.882321&sspn=0.013664,0.032938&g=43.025247,-87.898779&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=43.024541,-87.906804&spn=0.026542,0.065875&z=15

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/8278/getmapashx.jpg
That large patch of land is 20 blocks long. Major developers (Like Mandel) own large chunks of it, and have been floating around ideas for years. It's already open, but would be more appealing by adding the proposed freeway connection. The smaller patch is prime real estate, bordering the Calatrava and Third Ward.

I mean, that's pretty substantial right?

[El Mariachi]

here is the plan

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2361/concepta.jpg (http://img142.imageshack.us/i/concepta.jpg/)

[Markitect]

No, that is not the plan.

It is simply a concept drawing (and a flawed one at that, as we went over when it first surfaced a year ago)...to serve as a starting point to come up with more and better refined ideas.

In no way should you be taking that drawing as representative of an actual plan that's being proposed.

In fact, there is no plan to tear to the bridge down at this point.

[El Mariachi]

No, that is not the plan.

It is simply a concept drawing (and a flawed one at that, as we went over when it first surfaced a year ago)...to serve as a starting point to come up with more and better refined ideas.

In no way should you be taking that drawing as representative of an actual plan that's being proposed.

In fact, there is no plan to tear to the bridge down at this point.

Well then, I stand corrected.

[El Mariachi]

I read over the posts from back in 2008---interesting discussion. Must have been banned. :lol: You do make a compelling arugment in page 95 of the archives.

If the Hoan were to be replaced, something similar to this would do? This is a bridge in Barcelona, if I am not mistaken.

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6291/469162821704f7d95b8o.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/i/469162821704f7d95b8o.jpg/)

I believe I have said it before on here, but the prospect of having a new, landmark bridge is exciting.

[MJinOshkosh]

I think it would be a terrible waste if the Hoan is torn down or at the very least replaced with a similar bridge. I will add there is a third option one that would open up the land and also allow for a freeway to continue towards the Lake Parkway, that option is also prohibitatively expensive, that option is a tunnel where the Hoan bridge goes through now. But in all I see no real reason as to why the Hoan couldn't be repaired and maintained to current standards and last a much longer period of time. It seems to me that this country is really good at building things but not so good at maintaining what was built.

[He Named Thor]

That drawing seems to have no parking lots. Especially in the Southern part of that red area, by the Summerfest grounds and the Hoan, iirc that's all parking right now.


I also have to wonder if the Hoan would actually be replaced with anything but a run of the mill concrete/metal drawbridge. Milwaukee seems to be better at this than many cities, but for the most part nothing interesting is ever built in the U.S. anymore. Everything has to be as cheap and bland as possible, or else it's labeled "government waste" and stupid people rally outside of city hall or the capital.

[EastSider]

I read over the posts from back in 2008---interesting discussion. Must have been banned. :lol: You do make a compelling arugment in page 95 of the archives.

If the Hoan were to be replaced, something similar to this would do? This is a bridge in Barcelona, if I am not mistaken.

I believe I have said it before on here, but the prospect of having a new, landmark bridge is exciting.

I think it's exciting to. I'd like to see something similar to the 6th St Viaduct, and definitely white.

[progressisgood]

I read over the posts from back in 2008---interesting discussion. Must have been banned. :lol: You do make a compelling arugment in page 95 of the archives.

If the Hoan were to be replaced, something similar to this would do? This is a bridge in Barcelona, if I am not mistaken.

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6291/469162821704f7d95b8o.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/i/469162821704f7d95b8o.jpg/)

I believe I have said it before on here, but the prospect of having a new, landmark bridge is exciting.

That bridge looks uglier than the Hoan bridge.

[Jesse276]

That bridge looks uglier than the Hoan bridge.

What bridge style do you prefer?

[honest86]

I like that bridge ^^ I wonder if we can get it in black?

[Jschmuck]

Hoan Bridge needs at center of Wednesday meeting

The parties feuding over the future of the Hoan Bridge met Wednesday in an invitation-only meeting hosted by the Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of Commerce and reached one agreement: "Do no harm."

the rest here; http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/60702007.html

[miltown]

I know it might cost more but has a tunnel ever been thought of for 794? It could start after the Marquette interchange and come back up before Lincoln Ave. This would allow for the highway to remain and also allow for a low grade avenue on the surface. At the same time it would actually open up more land for development than rearranging freeway ramps or just lowering the bridge. Something like what Boston did with I-90.????
What do you think?

[Jesse276]

I know it might cost more but has a tunnel ever been thought of for 794? It could start after the Marquette interchange and come back up before Lincoln Ave. This would allow for the highway to remain and also allow for a low grade avenue on the surface. At the same time it would actually open up more land for development than rearranging freeway ramps or just lowering the bridge. Something like what Boston did with I-90.????
What do you think?

Replacing the Hoan with another bridge is being looked at because it would save money while keeping the existing highway link south. I can't see how a tunnel would save money, especially will all the sewerage infrastructure around Jones Island.

[Jschmuck]

Hoan Bridge decision needed sooner than expected

The state Department of Transportation added an element of urgency Wednesday to the repair-or-replace decision on the expansive Hoan Bridge.

Repairs to the 2½ of miles of roadway need to start in 2011 - a year ahead of previous estimates - to head off restrictions on heavy trucks and other limitations on traffic in 2013, according to a report on the condition of the bridge.

the rest here; http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/60702007.html


what if the DOT redecks 4 of the 6 lanes, and keeps the undecked lanes closed to save on costs? Then consider a smaller bridge. Cause traffic counts obviously don't warrant 6 lanes.

[progressisgood]

What bridge style do you prefer?

Am I suppose to choose which one is better, or is there an option for a classy, good-looking bridge?

[Twoaday]

@miltown There's just no way to justify a tunnel. The cost for the level of traffic just doesn't add up.

[He Named Thor]

I know it might cost more but has a tunnel ever been thought of for 794? It could start after the Marquette interchange and come back up before Lincoln Ave. This would allow for the highway to remain and also allow for a low grade avenue on the surface. At the same time it would actually open up more land for development than rearranging freeway ramps or just lowering the bridge. Something like what Boston did with I-90.????
What do you think?

It's an interesting idea to be sure, but the entire reason we are having this debate is because of the cost of maintaining the Hoan. A tunnel would be significantly more expensive.

Boston isn't a great example either...




what if the DOT redecks 4 of the 6 lanes, and keeps the undecked lanes closed to save on costs? Then consider a smaller bridge. Cause traffic counts obviously don't warrant 6 lanes.


That's just a little ghetto. I'm not even sure that would work, generally you'd want to keep the entire bridge in good shape.

[Jesse276]

Am I suppose to choose which one is better, or is there an option for a classy, good-looking bridge?

You tell me, it's not an objective question.

[miltown]

Yellow is where I'd run the tunnel, Light blue could be converted to a smaller avenue, The red dot is the current Hoan Bridge. This probably will never happen but it's fun to think about.

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp230/stillirise/hoantunnel.jpg

[progressisgood]

You tell me, it's not an objective question.

I'll go with a classy, good-looking bridge.Have it designed by Calatrava.

[Jesse276]

I'll go with a classy, good-looking bridge.Have it designed by Calatrava.

I'm hoping for a modern, but not cable-stayed bridge. I like the look of cable-stayed but it is used everywhere now.

[progressisgood]

There should be a Calatrava designed bridge that would match the Milwaukee Art Museum design.

[MilwaukeeMark]

^^ umm... short term memory loss? ;)

[progressisgood]

^^ umm... short term memory loss? ;)

I mean a bridge to replace the Hoan.

[EastSider]

Hoan Bridge: Let's get the Facts (http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2009/10/05/editorial3.html)

Sometimes a news story gets ahead of the facts, as is the case with the recent speculation and misinformation surrounding the Milwaukee Metropolitan Association of Commerce’s position on the Hoan Bridge. So, let’s set the record straight.

MMAC is not advocating that the Hoan Bridge be torn down. This bridge is a critical corridor connecting downtown to businesses and members on Milwaukee’s south side and beyond. However, the bridge is in need of what appears to be significant repairs and resurfacing, if it is to serve out its useful life over the next 30 years. A decision on the extent of that work and a timeline is needed in the near future because the rehab is set to begin in 2012.

Now is the time to get the facts and the best cost estimates for all the options out on the table so that sound decisions can be made. Any alternative to redecking the Hoan Bridge must take into careful consideration its impact on Summerfest, the Port of Milwaukee, the community and our regional economic development.

MMAC supports an in-depth study of all the various options for the future of this corridor, including replacement of the bridge as is, replacement in a different form, or relocation of this transportation corridor to a different footprint. A detailed analysis of the various options, their costs and benefits, and the views of the impacted communities will be critical to ensuring the best decision can be made.

[MilwaukeeMax]

I am for knocking the Hoan down-- not because I'm opposed to how it looks (it's not that significant of a landmark however), but because of the proposals for redevelopment on the land above which it now sits. I also agree that the knee-jerkers who think that drive time is of utmost importance are probably suburbanites from Cudahy who only really want to serve themselves. The travel times won't increase by much with the new designs and the tradeoff is reclaiming land from industries who've blighted and destroyed many of the natural resources that once made that area beautiful. Nobody is alive today to remember but there were once ISLANDS down there-- indeed, the bridge goes over what was once Jones Island... where fishermen once lived in villages (the kashubes)... that land should be returned to how it was-- tear out the concrete pylons and that ugly interstate spur and redevelop with care and judgement and sensitivity to the landscape and coastline. how fantastic would it be to have a fisherman's wharf down there with restaurants and shopping in a walkable district with winding streets instead of acre after of salt mounds?

[Coldwake]

So what would you do with the functioning harbor, sewage treatment plant, and other industry in the area right now? not to mention what kind of clean up job that would be... yikes!

[Jesse276]

So what would you do with the functioning harbor, sewage treatment plant, and other industry in the area right now? not to mention what kind of clean up job that would be... yikes!

I don't think most people that are talking about replacing/moving the Hoan, are saying that the port can/should be redeveloped as a residential neighborhood.

Most talk is about how much land will be opened up north of the Milwaukee river, west of the Summerfest grounds. This land probably has some contamination, but isn't a serious problem considering the value of the location (adjacent to Downtown and lakefront).

[Coldwake]

I don't think most people that are talking about replacing/moving the Hoan, are saying that the port can/should be redeveloped as a residential neighborhood.

Most talk is about how much land will be opened up north of the Milwaukee river, west of the Summerfest grounds. This land probably has some contamination, but isn't a serious problem considering the value of the location (adjacent to Downtown and lakefront).

Haha yeah... most talk is about that. Except not MilwaukeeMax. Max specifically pointed out jones island which is why I posted that.

[Steely Dan]

as an outsider, i won't take sides on whether the Hoan should be replaced or not, but i will say that the Hoan is a cool bridge and post this pic i took of it this past summer on my big kayak adventure on the waterways of milwaukee.

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7173/032hoan.jpg (http://img14.imageshack.us/i/032hoan.jpg/)