If the whole city is ruined by 14 floors, why can't they come up with this before the competition?

And frp proposed a new Munch-museum to be placed in the National gallery. Others want it to Bjørvika, others to stay at Tøyen. Now there will be new rounds of debates and disagreement, and no new Munch-museum for ages. :bash:

He know he's describing a 14-floorer surrounded by in the future at least 15 16-37 floorers?:) Well, well, we'll see. Frp will probably be marginalized in this elections eitherways, and this is a desperate meassure to gain some attention in the run up.
If they think they can gain votes by jumping the nimby bandwagon, they're sorry mistaken. If anything, this kind of rhetoric will only serve to alienate their last supporters.

In shock (http://www.dagsavisen.no/kultur/article520364.ece)

It's funny that the only party vividly and enthusiasticly supporting a new Munch-museum and Lambda is the supreme biggest winner in the elections. Maybe people aren't as afraid of some daring architectual principles as some people in the center and leftmost parties...

I guess with Frp this week, we'll see it buildt then?

I guess with Frp this week, we'll see it buildt then?

Hopefully yes.
:cheers:

Who says Frp is against? They just assumed more votes with this last-minute idea to study Nasjonalgalleriet project specifically chosen since we already know about the challenges this building has (that way they can jump back to Lambda after study).

I guess with Frp this week, we'll see it buildt then?
FRP will still have to turn..?

So, with todays results it is bye bye Lambda :skull:

Delayed. You're assuming Frp will not support it in the end - clearly they will.

Delayed. You're assuming Frp will not support it in the end - clearly they will.

They can not do that. They have promised to their voters that they NEVER will vote for Lambda in the future. Changing their mind yet again, will be political suicide.

The only chance are if AP or SV change their mind, but they have said they are working for the Tøyen alternative.

Høyre got so big that H+V almost has the majority alone (27 out of 59). Still not enough for Lambda though. Now, if someone could blame frp's bad results on their indecisive politics, they might change again :D

What's important is to get back the squaremeters lost in RA-compromise. This is what will get Frp back on track.

Høyre got so big that H+V almost has the majority alone (27 out of 59). Still not enough for Lambda though. Now, if someone could blame frp's bad results on their indecisive politics, they might change again :D

Yeah, we could only hope. Sadly though, the museum is dead as a rock.. There is no political majority for neither of the suggested locations, Bjørvika, Tøyen, Nasjonalgalleriet or down by the Ekebergskråninga. We will probably see AP winning with their proposal of an aquarium at Bjørvika, and the museum will be a matter of debate and "location studies" for at least 1 or 2 periods. That means a delay of 10 years or more for Munch.

... that is if FRP keep their word to the voters. I'll let FRP's own words illustrate how fucked up this party is... :ohno:

Here is what they wrote in Oslo FRP's website before the election:

NEI TIL LAMBDA (http://www.frp.no/NEI+TIL+LAMBDA.d25-TMtfW0k.ips)
Oslo FrP har på et ekstraordinært fylkesstyremøte mandag 5. september 2011 vedtatt at partiet ikke
vil gi sin videre politiske tilslutning til reguleringen, prosjekteringen eller byggingen av Lambda. Det betyr at Oslo FrPs representanter i Bystyret for
fremtiden vil stemme i mot enhver videreføring av prosjektet. Oslo FrP mener Lambda vil bli et fremmedelement i Oslos bybilde. Bygget blir dominerende og lite estetisk. En
koloss. Lambda har begrenset folkelig forankring, og det vil bli svært kostbart. Lambda bør derfor ikke bygges.

Now the election is over, and this is what Svenn (senile?) Kristiansen from FRP says:

Det aller siste halmstrået for Lambda-tilhengerne er hvis Frp skulle bruke Lambda som forhandlingskort i kamp om posisjoner i et nytt borgerlig byråd, noe Kristiansen ikke helt vil avvise. – Jeg tipper det er over og ut for Lambda. Men jeg har drevet med politikk så lenge, så en vet jo aldri. Dette er uansett noe den nye bystyregruppa må ta stilling til så snart de får konstituert seg, sier Svenn Kristiansen.

:bash:

What did i tell you? :lol:

This type of thing happends in politics all the time.

What did i tell you? :lol:

This type of thing happends in politics all the time.

It hasn't happend yet. I'm fully aware of how politics work, but this is an extreme case of bullshit and lies, and I frankly don't think it will happend. Not even FRP can sell their soul more than once...

So, Lambda decision was postponed today. Lambda is now officially a pawn in the city council negotiations :|

Nothing is impossible in politics. FrP might well change their minds, or abstain from voting so that Lambda goes through with a negative majority. In 4 years, that will be forgotten by most voters anyway. Broken promises is the main common denominator of all politicains, so most voters don't pay much to that anyway.

Although that possibility does exist, I doubt it is going to happen, though. I think the odds are against Lambda wouldn't bet much on the project ever seeing the daylight.

Let us finally get the long-planned aquarium next to the opera, and let's use an expanded Munch Museum at Tøyen as part of larger area plan to revitalise that part of the city. Such plans do work, and we have good examples of that in Oslo. Just look at the opera, the city hall, or even the royal castle, which was once a remote outskirt!

Not surprisingly – Høyre has presented Frp with an ultimatum; if they are to negotiate their cooperation in the city council, Frp has to support Lambda. Frp will discuss this demand this afternoon. Looks like this might be turned around once more.

Article at VG.no (http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/norsk-politikk/artikkel.php?artid=10030118)

:banana::cheers:

Frp are so power-hungry that this might be a final "yes" to Lambda after all. I don't think they will give away the chance to be in byråd for one project.

Frp are so power-hungry that this might be a final "yes" to Lambda after all. I don't think they will give away the chance to be in byråd for one project.

Facinating turn of events. I think it is strange that Høyre puts this much effort into getting Lambda realized. They must be aware of the general lack of support for this building. It is not a vote collecting move.

Why are not the runner ups considered when there is som much resistance to Lambda?

^^ It honestly can't come as a surprise to anyone that H puts a lot of effort into realizing this project. The voters were well aware that H has supported Lambda since the beginning and it's probably one of the largest political issues this autumn. Of course H will continue to fight for their causes, given the election they had. Politics are still more than just populism.

Also, I wouldn't jump to conclusions regarding the general support for this building. If only those who turn to the papers had spoken for themselves and not the population of Oslo or Munch himself, the media might have come through with a more balanced presentation.

Why are not the runner ups considered when there is som much resistance to Lambda?

The problem is that the nay-sayers aren't united. Some want it at Tøyen, some at Tullinløkka, others would like to see Vestbanetomten get used and some again are just against the height or the general design. Basically it's just a wall of negativity. We have to build the mother of all groundscrapers if we want to meet all those views.

The problem is that the nay-sayers aren't united. Some want it at Tøyen, some at Tullinløkka, others would like to see Vestbanetomten get used and some again are just against the height or the general design. Basically it's just a wall of negativity. We have to build the mother of all groundscrapers if we want to meat all those views.

I think it's much more simple, there just isn't that much resistance as it's cracked up to be. And Høyre knows this. Much ado about nothing that matters to others than a selected few who objects to something they don't like and happens to know how the press works and/or have the contacts required. AP and the lefties actually thought they could win Oslo on this and made a big deal of it, with the media on their side. And still they lost, as usual.

But Høyre knows we are a nation of arcitechturally challenged individuals. Barred a selected few, of course. This ultimatum was mentioned in the news on P4 today, and the announcer referred to the "Lambada Project"!! Yes, the Lambada Project, people! And it wasn't even corrected in the later bulletins. Oh man, how I laughed. I still chuckle as I'm writing this:D

And if that doesn't put a big fat exclamation point behind what I've already written in this piece, I don't know what does.

Of course H will continue to fight for their causes, given the election they had. Politics are still more than just populism.


I'm not saying Høyre should sell out to get more votes, but choosing Lambda over another Munch alternative is more into the details then perhaps politicians should be. There is nothing in Høyres ideology/political platform that dictates Lamda over other alternatives as I see it. Being predictable is of course an argument here, but they could easily let Lamda go and just point to the fact that the other parties voted against it and got majority.

It's official. Frp will go out of Oslo city council, just because of Lambda!:eek:

Gosh, what a group of idiots, but I'm guessing Carl I. personally are pulling most of the strings in this case...

, but choosing Lambda over another Munch alternative is more into the details then perhaps politicians should be. There is nothing in Høyres ideology/political platform that dictates Lamda over other alternatives as I see it.

Did you forget that we had an architectural competition, and that Lambda won?

If that is not good enough a reason for politicians to support one proposal before another, then there really is absolutely no point at all in having these competitions in the first place. You propose that Høyre should use their ideological platform as a device to choose another entry, now that is getting more into the details then politicians should be.

---

Well, FRP is out of byråd, and right now it doesn't look like the museum will go through.

Did you forget that we had an architectural competition, and that Lambda won?

If that is not good enough a reason for politicians to support one proposal before another, then there really is absolutely no point at all in having these competitions in the first place. You propose that Høyre should use their ideological platform as a device to choose another entry, now that is getting more into the details then politicians should be.

---

Well, FRP is out of byråd, and right now it doesn't look like the museum will go through.

I am not proposing that Høyre should use an ideological platform to ditch Lambda. How could I do that? I am saying that letting it go would not cost them credibility as it is the other parties voting it down.

When it comes to the competition I agree in principle, but looking at the result of this competition makes it hard to swallow. I remember looking through the proposals and dismissing this one as an ugly bastard. It might end up better than I am able to envision, but no one can claim that this building is broadly supported by architects in general. It has to be built with enormous attention to detail and super high quality if this is to become a winner. Even the slightest sight of cheap, tacky detailing will ruin it for me.

It's official. Frp will go out of Oslo city council, just because of Lambda!:eek:

Gosh, what a group of idiots, but I'm guessing Carl I. personally are pulling most of the strings in this case...

won't this mean, with frp not involved that lambda is more likely to go ahead, or does it allow frp to fight against it from an opted out position?


(sorry, not to hot on norwegian local govn)

won't this mean, with frp not involved that lambda is more likely to go ahead, or does it allow frp to fight against it from an opted out position?


(sorry, not to hot on norwegian local govn)

Frp will not be in the City Government (byråd), but will still have the power to say no to Lambda in the City Council (bystyre) where the case is approved or rejected. If frp had promised H to say yes to the project in the CC, they would still be in the CG. So now it's only H and V who will vote for Lambda, and that is not enough :ohno:

Yes, this means Lambda is dead. Even if they got KrF on board, it wouldn't be enough voters. Maybe if Ap let their members vote freely?

The plot for museum will then turn into another Tullinløkka or Vestbanen. Will look great on the waterfront. :)

I am not proposing that Høyre should use an ideological platform to ditch Lambda. How could I do that? I am saying that letting it go would not cost them credibility as it is the other parties voting it down.


But it would cost the city credibility,

FrP backing out of Lambda mid-process was such a bullshit move, I'm glad they jumped out of the city council. Actually I'd be glad with them jumping out of any political institution under any circumstances. :nuts:

What a mess. Tens of millions of NOK probably lost in planning Lambda. I didn’t think it was perfect, but it had its qualities, and the need for the museum is definitely quite urgent, so I was rooting for Lambda (and hoping for an aquarium at the old “kornsilo” at Vippetangen). If it won’t be realized I think they should speed up the process of getting an extension of the current Munch museum at Tøyen and use the opportunity to fix the broken urban environment in its surroundings, and then let the aquarium people use the Bjørvika property. Unfortunately, even if they went for this solution, I fear it will take years of planning and decision making with the consequence of Oslo having an unworthy Munch museum and an empty spot behind the opera for years to come.
BTW, I see Knut Olav Årnås of Aftenposten wants to use the second place design in the Munch competition; Yin Yang, stating with confidence that it’s a fact Lambda didn’t thrill that many people. That might be true, but stating it’s a fact is sort of jumping to conclusions based on people commenting in the biggest newspapers about it being ugly etc. Anyways; I’m not a big fan of Yin Yang, partly because it blocks the opera from the fjord.

Aftenposten article (http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/kommentatorer/aamaas/article4240098.ece)

The Munch Museum should be extended and upgraded at its current location, as part of a larger urban renewal plan for the entire Tøyen area.

Strategically, The importance of Tøyen is bound to increase dramatically in the years to come, as it will be one of the three main hubs of the new T-bane system when the new tunnel gets built. That means that other parts of transportation system is likely to get centered around Tøyen, gradually positioning it as an Eastern counterweight to Majorstua.

That development will inevitably lead to a demand for a re-planning of the entire Tøyen area, so now is a good opportunity to start that work, with the Munch Museum as a centerpiece of the area plan.

And, yes, may our politicians move quickly to ensure that an aquarium is built in Bjørvika now!

The Munch Museum should be extended and upgraded at its current location, as part of a larger urban renewal plan for the entire Tøyen area.



A very bad idea. The importance of Munch, and the potential a new museum in the city center (walking distance) has for tourism in Oslo makes Bjørvika a perfect location. Munch placed in Tøyen means less tourists to Oslo, and less visitors to the museum, a lose-lose situation :ohno:

I hate to say it, but the current Munch-museum is one U-G-L-Y building! Even with the improved entrance, it's an eyesore on Tøyen, and that's saying much considering Tøyen senter is it's closes neighbor! Combining this with the fact that rebuilding will cost almost as much as a brand new building, and that the longer we prolong the process, the more damaged the paintings will be by the terrible indoor climate; I think it's fair to say that tragedy is complete, even though some politicians think Munch will be a break-bar to make an attractive Tøyen, even though facts has stated the opposite for almost a half century already...

Bitching END.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u315/erreflot/Bilde077.jpg
As my dear, old grandma would say: "WHAT A PIECE OF OLD SHIT!!"

Bless her heart.

FrP backing out of Lambda mid-process was such a bullshit move, I'm glad they jumped out of the city council. Actually I'd be glad with them jumping out of any political institution under any circumstances. :nuts:
One of many reasons they got hammered in the elections I'd assume. In the old days ppl would hate on FrP, calling them "populist" - obviously false, as they would stand up to ten times more heat for their opinions than everyone else. Today, though, they seem to be more problems making up their mind on everything from Lambda to Maria Amelie. Researchers say the reason for their loss was not primarily because their voters left the party, but because their voters stayed at home.

A very bad idea. The importance of Munch, and the potential a new museum in the city center (walking distance) has for tourism in Oslo makes Bjørvika a perfect location. Munch placed in Tøyen means less tourists to Oslo, and less visitors to the museum, a lose-lose situation :ohno:

I'm imagining a couple having this conversation somewhere in a European city:
- Where should we go for the long weekend, dear? I'm keen on Oslo.
- Yeah, me too. I really want to see the Munch Museum!
- No, wait, we'd have to take the subway for 2 stops from the central station. That's too far.
- You're right. Let's forget about Oslo!

I'm sure that's why no tourists ever visit Vigelandsparken. 3 subway stops away from the central station is too much of a hassle.

For the same reason, noone goes to Holmenkollen. :lol:

I hate to say it, but the current Munch-museum is one U-G-L-Y building! Even with the improved entrance, it's an eyesore on Tøyen, and that's saying much considering Tøyen senter is it's closes neighbor! Combining this with the fact that rebuilding will cost almost as much as a brand new building, and that the longer we prolong the process, the more damaged the paintings will be by the terrible indoor climate; I think it's fair to say that tragedy is complete, even though some politicians think Munch will be a break-bar to make an attractive Tøyen, even though facts has stated the opposite for almost a half century already...

Bitching END.

It may not be a pretty building, which is yet another good reason to build a new, redesigned and vastly extended complex at the same location.

It's been approx 15 years since the idea of building the Opera in Bjørvika started gaining serious political ground. The vision was initially ridiculed, as it would be preposterous to place it in the middle of the country's biggest traffic complex, and that the opera was too important to be used as a break-bar for urban development in an area that was written off as beyond hope for urban development. Supporters of the idea were even labelled barbarians who were not serious about culture.

No offense, but remembering that debate, I find it quite amusing to see the same arguments recycled in support of moving an existing cultural institution to the plot next to the opera - itself labelled a "worst-imaginable" location just a decade and a half ago.

In my opinion, the Opera and the Bjørvika development are in themselves probably the best arguments why the Munch Museum should remain at Tøyen, and why it should be used as a centerpiece of an extended area revival plan.

I'm imagining a couple having this conversation somewhere in a European city:
- Where should we go for the long weekend, dear? I'm keen on Oslo.
- Yeah, me too. I really want to see the Munch Museum!
- No, wait, we'd have to take the subway for 2 stops from the central station. That's too far.
- You're right. Let's forget about Oslo!

I'm sure that's why no tourists ever visit Vigelandsparken. 3 subway stops away from the central station is too much of a hassle.

For the same reason, noone goes to Holmenkollen. :lol:

Location is alfa omega. The fact that Holmenkollen and Vigelandsparken have many visitors just tells us that they are important tourist attractions, but it is not an argument against a central location. Both attractions would have a lot more visitors if they were located close to Oslo S.

In 2010 Munch had 124.576 visitors, the Van Gogh museum had 1,429,854 visitors. I think the potential for a Munch museum in Oslo is half of Van Gogh in Amsterdam, or somewhere between 500.000 -750.000 visitors pr year.Unless we build a groundbreaking museum like in Bilbao at Tøyen, we will never reach that potential without a central location.

In my opinion, the Opera and the Bjørvika development are in themselves probably the best arguments why the Munch Museum should remain at Tøyen, and why it should be used as a centerpiece of an extended area revival plan.
If we want to revive Tøyen then we need to demolish the shit that is Tøyen Torg. It's still going to be a run down hole with or without Munch if we keep that suburbian eyesore.

This is what I suggest to with it (Yes, I realize that I have posted it before):

I propose to go back to normal, closed of city blocks (marked with red), add more cross roads (marked with grey), a park (green) and two towers on 100m++ on each side of ring 2 (marked with red and black cross in them).
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa352/ruterruter/tyen.png

The idea was to create something similar to Postdammer Platz only with one less tower.
https://www.courses.psu.edu/nuc_e/nuc_e405_g9c/berlin/potsdamerplatz/potsdamerplatz5.jpg

We have to something like this if we want to bring the area up on its feet. I don't think Munch is that important for Tøyens success. In fact I can't help thinking that a aquarium would fit better to the feeling of the area.
:)

Isn't an aquarium supposed to be close to the sea? I'm not exactly a marine biologist, but I do believe that the bigger fish need fresh sea water to be happy, like in Barcelona, at least if it's supposed to have large salt water creatures in it, like sharks.

If it was up to me, I would have placed the aquarium at the absolute tip of akersodden. I would also have dug out most of Vippetangen so that akersodden would be surrounded by the fjord. Inbetween the water and the fortress walls, there would be a wide promenade/avenue including a tram line, with various dining places and so on. This would perhaps have led to more people visiting the museums in the fortress area as well as kvadraturen as a whole. Also, all those people complaining about opening the fjord would have gotten their needs satisfied, if that is even possible.

^^ To be honest I have no idea about the technical stuff. But if it's not possible to build a aquarium inland then I support your suggestion. Only problem is that the silo standing there today is protected.
:)

Weird decision to protect that - well personally I do like it slightly in some weird way, probably childhood memories from the island boats there ;), but when thinking about what better things could be there, and its prominent position from the seaside, in total it's a :ohno: ...

(But yeah, really not surprising either of course. Riksantikvaren :ohno:)

^^ Well he have protected all other possible shits in the city that most people hate. The funny thing is that he also goes out and says that he "wants to bring the architectural discussion down on a level people understand". So much for that.

Nothing at Vippetangen, including the silo, is protected yet. Lets's hope it stays that way. The silo must go!!!

I quite like the old silo actually.

I think it would be better to use it creatively in a new project rather than demolish it. Like turning it into a nightclub or something.

I quite like the old silo actually.

I think it would be better to use it creatively in a new project rather than demolish it. Like turning it into a nightclub or something.

I really don't like the silo, but your suggestion isn't bad. Some dramatic lighting and upgrade of the plot around it could turn it into an asset for the city. Could end up rather tacky also...

I say bring the sucker down and follow OnTheNorthRoads proposal.

I really don't like the silo, but your suggestion isn't bad. Some dramatic lighting and upgrade of the plot around it could turn it into an asset for the city. Could end up rather tacky also...

Yeah, it might be hard to get it right.

What's good about the silo is that it has character and history. If it's torn down we might end up with yet another glass box..

Why do we need something to replace it with?

^ Because demolishing a highrise to replace it with nothing is as stupid as grounding the Concords, abandoning the mars missions and cancelling extension of Shanghai maglev. It's humanity moving backwards into evolution turning to neanderthals.

Great location for a proper skyscraper tough :)

^ Because demolishing a highrise to replace it with nothing is as stupid as grounding the Concords, abandoning the mars missions and cancelling extension of Shanghai maglev. It's humanity moving backwards into evolution turning to neanderthals.



Lol, demolishing an old silo will turn us to neanderthals. Not sure if that is regarded as scientific evidence in genetics..

About Vippetangen and the silo, I am kind of a Nimby. I would prefer as few building as possible, or esthetic "noise" in this area. We probably need some buildings though, but I would prefer some real proposals before I give it my vote. Regardless, I strongly believe the silo should go.

Such a shame the oldest silo went boom, if that was still there, ti would have been a definite keeper!

http://www.festningsverk.no/Oslo_7/Vippetangen%20(3).JPG

i don't think they should demolish the existing highrise part either though, with some love and care that one could end up good, as for the round silo parts.. hmm..

http://folk.uio.no/asbr/Ymse/Balcony-Vista/vistas/vistas-images/loci/06-iR2-Oslo-Central-West/Vippetangen-110427b.jpg

^^ Yeah, industrial buildings were built differently before functionalism. Luckily we have managed to keep the other one from the same architect (Havnelageret).
:)

^^ What a sick zoom!

I quite like the old silo actually.

I think it would be better to use it creatively in a new project rather than demolish it. Like turning it into a nightclub or something.

Agree, I think it should be incorporated in a new plan for the area – the highrise part actually looks a bit cool, and with some modern elements added to the building it could be our Rockheim.

There have been a lot of different ideas for something like that;

Konserthus (http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/debatt/article3096528.ece)

Teknisk museum (http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/oslo/article2999073.ece)

Six ideas (http://www.prosjekt-fjordbyen.oslo.kommune.no/getfile.php/fjordbykontoret%20(FJORDBYEN)/Internett%20(FJORDBYEN)/Dokumenter/metwork%20lett.pdf)

http://media.aftenposten.no/archive/01040/adeb1silo2805_1040616f.jpg

^^ I would have agreed with you if the silo had been along Akerselva, Ensjø or similar places. However it now stands at one of the most prominent places along the waterfront and right next to our historic fortress, and then it needs something better than just a few cool details to be kept.

Yeah agreed ^^, that's more or less what I implied earlier with my last post, this stands in too prominent/important a location to be kept.

It would be possible to replace it with something interesting instead I think, though. A design that reminds abit about seilet in Molde (only maybe even cooler haha I have high demands :)) could work there.

^^ I would have agreed with you if the silo had been along Akerselva, Ensjø or similar places. However it now stands at one of the most prominent places along the waterfront and right next to our historic fortress, and then it needs something better than just a few cool details to be kept.

Yes, the silo must go. It really uglyfies Oslo's waterfront. I'm not sure if I would keep it along Akerselva either. How many reconstructed Silos do we need? These are ugly primitive structures never ment to be a part of housing areas. I think we know the architectural statement by now. It's time to move on..

i like it - it's quite dramatic, clear some of the other buildings from around it and make it even more prominent and it could be a really interesting feature...

Tear it down ffs, it's an eyesore.
I thought you guys wanted Oslo to become better, but you want to keep this cataract inducing POS ?!?... :nuts:

^^I don't like it at all, but I'm afraid that if teared down, they will only replace it with mediocracy. If I knew they would replace it with a new skyscraper or Tjuvholmen, I say get rid of it, but if it'll be replaced by suburban-density park/cruise terminal with some culture stuff in between, then I'll say don't bother.

Tear it down ffs, it's an eyesore.
I thought you guys wanted Oslo to become better, but you want to keep this cataract inducing POS ?!?... :nuts:

'Better' or 'worse' is subjective mate. One of the good things about these forums is the diversity in opinion. Without it, there wouldn't be any discussion.

How do you think Oslo would be better if this was torn down? It might look different, and you might like that look, but is that all that matters? Is the goal of a city just to look as good as possible or is it something else?

'Is the goal of a city just to look as good as possible or is it something else?

It should be a blend between what is as functional as possible and what is as pretty as possible.

'Better' or 'worse' is subjective mate. One of the good things about these forums is the diversity in opinion. Without it, there wouldn't be any discussion.

How do you think Oslo would be better if this was torn down? It might look different, and you might like that look, but is that all that matters? Is the goal of a city just to look as good as possible or is it something else?

Aesthetics is important as it greatly influences how people perceive the city. It rarely conflicts with the functional use so there are really not many arguments for not making constructions beautiful apart from the all-conquering financial argument.

When it comes to the silo, I fail to see your reasoning for keeping it.

i like it - it's quite dramatic, clear some of the other buildings from around it and make it even more prominent and it could be a really interesting feature...

I don’t really think it deserves or needs more space around it and to be made into a monument. Not really sure which buildings you are talking about either, but in any case I hope they will keep Skur 39 – the Snøhetta HQ is really cool. Other than what seems like that very building being torn down, I think the “Teknisk museum”-plan looks pretty good for the area. I also think Vippetangen should keep that old school, rough pier feeling in contrast to Aker Brygge, Tjuvholmen and the likes. Fiskehallen is also in good use at the moment, so I hope they find a good solution for their activities in the future developments.

Aesthetics is important as it greatly influences how people perceive the city. It rarely conflicts with the functional use so there are really not many arguments for not making constructions beautiful apart from the all-conquering financial argument.

When it comes to the silo, I fail to see your reasoning for keeping it.

Well, you'd be tearing away a pice of Oslo's history because a percieved sense of 'ugliness'.

Keeping the old silo is a bit like keeping the wall of an old medieval city. Like the silo, old city walls aren't generally that nice to look at. Generally they're just a mound of brick. However, they represent an important part of a citys history, and more importantly, allows you to 'read' the citys history by studying it. The silo is a very clear indication that the location it stands at used to be an important harbour, which is in fact what most of Oslos waterfront used to be.

If there was a good functional reason for tearing it down I'd be all for it, but just thinking it's ugly isn't really enough imo.I mean I agree, the silo isn't exatly the Versailles Palace, but that doesn't automatically mean it should be demolished.

Your arguments could be used about absolute everything. Should we never demolish anything?

Apparently they are still working on the Lambda project. Initiating new phases in the planning process. What a waste if some miracle doesn’t happen and it turns around again.

http://oslopuls.aftenposten.no/byliv/article615963.ece

^^It's a bit weird, if not Høyre know something... The city councilman must be narcotic if she doesn't see what money is spent on this!

Hm. I thought it was dead? Is there a change that this building will come to fruition after all?

Formally, the Lambda isn't declined before the city board meeting October 26th. The newspapers think they have the last saying in most political matters, but only the elected officials can make these kind of decissions.

^^ But how likely do you think it is for it be approved? Do Høyre have anything to "megle" with?

Byutviklingskomiteen last Tuesday:

FORSLAG:

Svenn Kristiansen på vegne av F og Ola Elvestuen på vegne av V fremmet følgende forslag:
Saken utsettes.

Votering:
F og Vs forslag ble vedtatt mot 4 stemmer (A).

Etter dette er byutviklingskomiteens foreløpige vedtak:
Saken utsettes.

Saken ligger til fortsatt behandling i komiteen.

Yyyeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzz... Will they ever treat this and get it over with?!

I'm starting to get quite tired of this ...

http://i.imgur.com/YnW90.jpg

So Mulefisk, how is life in Sheffield? Never been there, but I read in wiki it is known as the biggest village in UK. Can we expect a photo-thread soon?

^^ But how likely do you think it is for it be approved? Do Høyre have anything to "megle" with?

Highly unlikely. To my knowledge they don’t really have anything up their sleeve to use as an incentive to change the decision from FRP or SV, but I guess you never know till it’s done and done. Anyways, they did at least stop the progress of the planning process now;

http://oslopuls.aftenposten.no/byliv/article619991.ece

Highly unlikely. To my knowledge they don’t really have anything up their sleeve to use as an incentive to change the decision from FRP or SV, but I guess you never know till it’s done and done. Anyways, they did at least stop the progress of the planning process now;

http://oslopuls.aftenposten.no/byliv/article619991.ece

I would say there is always something to "megle" with. As long as there are things that are more important to SV than their NO to Lambda. Even SV understand that there is no political majority to any alternative for the Munch museum. Saying no to Lambda could be no to a new a new museum the next 10-20 years, and that is not in anyones interest.

I feel so ashamed on behalf of the city and politicians when it comes to this project.

Regardless of one's opinion on the architecture and design of Lambda, the effort and cost that has been put into this, and the outcome now, after several years of back and forth, it's just such a big waste. And the biggest loser is the city of Oslo, Munch's legacy and anyone who cares about art. There is absolutely no doubt that it's a responsibility of the city to provide a fitting and prominent museum of international caliber to suit the art and legacy of Munch. And we have failed utterly.

The thing that annoys me the most, is all the angry people trying to build the logic that we can't take care of our elderly because we spend so much money on "stupid" signature buildings. If they understood anything about how society works, they would know that's not the case and it will never be.

It is obvious that the international architectural competition in Oslo is dead, since neither the population or politicians have confidence in the jurors.

I like the architecture per se, however, I think the jury slips away too easily. Regardless of the quality of the architecture, it was not a smart move to choose a building with a clearly defined frontside and backside, leaving both the opera and the musem with backsides towards east. The jury, the city and its politicians need to row in the same direction, if projects as big as these are to materialize.

Perhaps we could build some credibility if we changed the composition of the jury, and finalized most of the political process before the competition was held, to avoid that elections taking place several years after the competition were held changes the majority (or that doubtful parties such as FRP can use the new election period as excuse to make U-turns).

After all, if the politicians are going to be the final smaksdommer, then why shouldn't they constitute the jury in the first place?

So Mulefisk, how is life in Sheffield? Never been there, but I read in wiki it is known as the biggest village in UK. Can we expect a photo-thread soon?

Really good actually. It's true, the city feels a lot smaller than Oslo even though it has roughly the same population. The city centre is only about the size of kvadraturen, but the suburbs are really great. A bit like Thorsov/Bislett type areas only more green and spread out.

Also, we have a tramway. :cheers: (And beer is so cheap, 20kr for en halvliter :nuts:)

Munch museum, chapter n (http://www.dagsavisen.no/kultur/article522616.ece)
(Article in Dagsavisen)
http://www.dagsavisen.no/multimedia/archive/00077/munsj_77836q.jpg

Yin Yang was my third choice, so it's fine by me. But it wont happend. Yin Yang didn't win because it failed like most proposals on the Akerselva premises. Lambda was one of few proposals that answered that criteria, hence why it won. Even if Lambda was not among my favourites, I think the winner is the building we have to build. We can't afford any further loss in reputation in the architectural world..

A bit confused here. Found this article in Dagbladet (http://www.dagbladet.no/2009/08/26/nyheter/innenriks/museum/7831919/) from two years ago. Think I fell off somewhere between then and now.

Stemmene fra Høyre, Fremskrittspartiet, Venstre og SV berget flertall for det spanske prosjektet.

A bit confused here. Found this article in Dagbladet (http://www.dagbladet.no/2009/08/26/nyheter/innenriks/museum/7831919/) from two years ago. Think I fell off somewhere between then and now.

SV turned this spring, cause they think Munch at Tøyen is "helping the weak" and east (poor) vs. west (rich).
Frp turned this fall cause they think the ("true") people's opinion is to not build a new museum for more than 2 bio down in Bjørvika.
Krf turned this fall, because of the new city government compromise.

Therefor, supporting parties today are H, V and Krf. There have also been a few supporting representatives within the groups of Ap and Frp, but who are mostly tied by theire parties.

SV turns all the time, thanks to SV both Barcode and Nydalen tower was approved in last minute compromises. Parts of Oslo SV is positive to Lambda, but the whole party is tied to the votes done during the yearly meeting.

But it says that it was approved. isn't it to late to turn then?

Project passes trough city council several times. Vote comming up is about the regulation plan.

But it says that it was approved. isn't it to late to turn then?

In theory, the city council could change when the building is half built. Only difference, is how much public money has been wasted in the meanwhile. Both SV and Frp could've turned in '09 and saved us tens of millions.

Frp turns again, and are now supporting a new Munch museum at Tøyen, dropping their earlier suggestion of moving it to the existing National gallery.

Now they want a new Munch amusement-park at Tøyen, integrating the metro station and more of Tøyen in a new project.

http://www.aftenposten.no/kultur/Frp-pner-for-Munch-p-Tyen-6686336.html


Good thing they know the price of this will be much less than Lambda, is my thought on this...

I´m positive! Much more of an improvement for Tøyen, which hopefully will benefit big from this. The more I think of it, the more I´m sure building a boring block with 10 floors, will visually block a lot of the view. And the shadows!.. Is there a study done for this?

Aubviously required, it's all in the casefile.

If they build in Tøyen it will be a BIG LOSS for Oslo and Munch. The costs will probably be about the same, meaning they are willing to sacrifice the best for Oslo and Munch just for a slightly improvement of Tøyen. :nuts:

I agree completely.

New Munch museum at Bjørvika really is a no-brainer. Munch gave his art to Oslo, and the city has failed to promote it for over 60 years.

Bjørvika needs a tourist attraction with someting to do besides walking on the opera roof, and Munch needs Bjørvika. A new museum here will probably be the biggest or second biggest 'real' tourist attraction in Oslo (not counting visiting a park, or walking at Aker Brygge).

Tøyen needs so much more than a Munch Museum, and there are plenty of other things we don't have in Oslo that can be placed at the Munch-spot. And even if it becomes a success for Tøyen, we have to be honest, few tourists will take the trip out there. If located in Bjørvika, the Munch museum will probably be a first thing to do for many. There's also plenty of symbolism where Akerselva meets the occean. It's a perfect spot for an art museum.

There's also plenty of symbolism where Akerselva meets the occean. It's a perfect spot for an art museum.

Not to mention that Munchs most famous picture (the scream) is actually a painting looking out over Oslofjorden from Ekeberg. A highrise like Lambda placed at the tip of Akerselva would mean that visitors could experience a similar view from the windows of the musem.

^^ nah... not sure. Obviously Tøyen could use a facelift. A world-class museum, as well as some nice signal buildings on the circus plot, or at least apartments that will attract something else than the lowest income segment could be a good start. Then fix Tøyen centre...

And since I'm more than average interested in fish, an aquarium at the lambda spot would be a great attraction. Of course, if it's just a few tanks and the odd confused penguin/seal, then it will add nothing. It has to be done well, and offer something interesting also to tourists. It should be close to Akerselva for the fresh water, holding both norwegian fresh- and salt-water fish. There are so many interesting (and ugly) species along our long coast, so an Arctic Aquarium could be something special. We can all see the boring sharks and flashy coral fish other places :)

– Oslo er redd for høye bygninger

Juan Herreros, arkitekten bak Lambda, er lei av alt støyet rundt museumsbygget. – Vi er fullstendig overbevist om kvaliteten på det vi driver med, sier han.

http://www.tu.no/bygg/article292915.ece

I'm tired of it too ...

I'm also tired of it but must say I'm among those who don't like Lambda extremely much. Among other things, I don't like the very typical highrise- or scraper-solution with a large "platform" at ground level which extends far beyond the footprint of the tall part of the building - isn't that, like, really "old school" highrise architecture? And if you're actually going to build a building like that, I'd prefer it to be at least a little higher, it just looks weird and a bit "bulky/massive" at the current height.

All in all, too many cons to the way Lambda looks now, in my eyes. Now I'm no expert architect, I admit, but I have no idea why the international "expert" jury chose this as a "clear" winner project. I'm so "stupid" that I even like some buildings or projects that architects see as either kind of "harry" or "too flashy" or too much trying to get attention. I like something that's actually daring and creative etc. far more than stuff like Lambda, which I have a problem seeing the qualities of, at least from a exterior architectural/design point of view. Might be that the insides of Lambda is pretty good, though, I will also admit I haven't had the opportunity to look deeply into that.

Ok, I have to add, I read the entire interview of Herreros now, and I did in fact like a lot of what he had to say, especially in the last half of the article. I still, somehow, isn't able to "read" what's so good about the Lambda project, except for the fact that it might be relatively cheap compared to many alternatives.

I have never been a big fan of Lambda, even though it is probably better than many thinks. On the other hand, what I am a BIG fan of, is politicians that stick to what they have decided and don't spend 90 million NOK on nothing. I hate "omkamper" and what this costs our society in money and lost time regarding development. :bash:

This is one of the main reasons why I will never support Tøyen. Supporting Tøyen is imo like supporting useless politicians or a disfunctional democracy..

I'm quite a fan of the building, but I wish they rather said a final "No, we won't build it" or a final "yes". I'm tired of this back and fourth.

I guess most people reading newspapers has gotten the latest news. With the deal signed by all opposition parties, Lambda is more dead than ever. Now a new plan for Tøyen/Tullinløkka should be done next summer.

A lot of prestige is now put in a new project that in no doubt will be as expensive as Bjrøvika. For what and who? And will the rest of Bjørvika be developed as first planed now with new conditions?

This is seriously one of the dumbest decisions I've ever seen the majority of politicians in Oslo agree upon, and they have agreed upon some pretty dumb shit the past few years.

Munch is the greatest nordic artist, and we can't afford a building that was chosen partially because of its reasonable price? Do they even look at the benefit side of it?

Kallmyr lives in a fantasy world if he thinks that a suitable building in Tøyen will cost any less than Lambda.

And is it even a goal to attract as many people in Tøyen as the museum would have attracted in Bjørvika?

It's all about prestige. I don't think this is a done deal, but I think it'll take a few months before someone in the opposition who realizes how stupid they are, gains the courage to stand out and create a new debate, finalizing the process in Bjørvika.

They just need to wait a couple of months, since turning around twice the same autumn would be a tad too much, even for FRP.

But how is the library + the student housing doing?

It's been on hold aswell with the uncertainty... Making a new regulation-alternative without Munch should be reasonably quick tough...I'm more anxious about the gondola - will we have to wait an aquarium projector something else before we can continue planning that?

i'm not so sceptical about tøyen as some people are, i think it has the potential to be a really nice suburb - and one only has to look at the scale of ensjø, nydalen fornebu etc, to see that oslo is capable of such a thing.

the argument that it is 'out of town' is really rather silly, as there are many successful museums at bygdøy - it's like london having some of their museums in kensington - and also with the botanical gardens it really could end up being very nice. mind you i think it needs to be a very special building, way more impressive than anything they suggested for the original location

lets face it there isn't too much in the east to get excited about and with the imapact that the bjørvika developments will have on gamlebyen, tøyen is a natural extension of this, there are some really fine buildings there. if handled rightly it could be the frogner/vika of the east.

I think it can work if we get a really special and amazing building. But this building won't have the central location to boost the exposure unlike the opera, so it has to be a building you really want to travel to to see. I do however doubt we will get that though with all the "omkamper" and whats not whenever a radical/controversial project sees the light.

If Lambda is really dead, then at least I can revive the old museum square at Tullinløkka idea. Basically, it goes like this: The northern side of the square gets demolished bar the corner buildings. A new modern and more dignified façade to face the square from the north will take its place. The square itself will remain an open square, but a small structure will be built in the middle, which ties the three buildings together underground. Chief inspiration for this idea is the Louvre pyramids.
A grand museum complex like this would make more sense for Nasjonalmuseet, but with Munch at the northern end of the complex, it could instead be three separate but affiliated museums. Nasjonalgalleriet seems best suited for statues, the original purpose of the building. I dont see much to gain for the city by upgrading Tøyen.

The comitee of City development/Byutviklingskomitéen are having a meeting tomorrow. Will there be another delay...? Suddenly, we all know what the people working at the current museum thinks, and what will be the best for the paintings:)

wouldn't this (http://maps.google.no/maps?hl=no&cp=4&gs_id=m&xhr=t&q=oslo&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1920&bih=986&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x46416e61f267f039:0x7e92605fd3231e9a,Oslo&gl=no&ei=2FHVTo_pCISi4gTd8vSpAQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CDgQ8gEwAA)make a good museum -

i went past early evening and it was surprisingly attractive, and the location is a good compromise...

edit: sorry - crappy link - i think it is the old jail in Grønlandspark - Botsparken?

^^There's no "old" jail. Just a jail.:)

Norges kunstelite vil redde Lambda (http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/11/30/kultur/kunst/munch/lambda/19225730/)

Long time lurker coming forth here. Just wanted to comment that there is very little discussion on the library here, for obvious reasons. Shouldn't the library get it's own thread? Especially when each individual bar code building gets its own thread... I would in any case be very interested in a closer discussion on the library.

Shouldn't the library get it's own thread?

I think so. It has generally been quiet around the whole project which is strange considering its location.

I think the building looks promising, but I am not fond of student housing at this location. Seems extravangant to spend that much money for temporary housing for students. The building quality is bound to suffer as a result of cost saving.

Long time lurker coming forth here. Just wanted to comment that there is very little discussion on the library here, for obvious reasons. Shouldn't the library get it's own thread? Especially when each individual bar code building gets its own thread... I would in any case be very interested in a closer discussion on the library.

The barcodes get individual threads because this is "skyscrapercity" and they are highrises;). For the time, I think it is natural to gather all these projects, as they are commonly treated in the municipal organs. An update for the Munch-museum, is an update for the library (for now). Perhaps a seperation could be done later.
There isn't much debate here about the library, but I think a lot of us are looking forward to this central and modern library, which will be a monument in the city no doubt.

^^There's no "old" jail. Just a jail.:)

oh, but isn't it due to close soon?

and, of course by 'old' i meant that it was an 'old' building ;)

oh, but isn't it due to close soon?

and, of course by 'old' i meant that it was an 'old' building ;)

Nope!:)

I think the Library will be gorgeous if this render is anything to go by:
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5908/diagonale2x1000.jpg

One of the better moderns ones in the world imho. :)

BTW: Just to compare, here is a sample of some modern libraries around the world:


Copenhagen "black diamond" extension.
http://www.topboxdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/The-Royal-Library-Design-by-schmidt-hammer-lassen-architects.jpg


Seattle.
http://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/washington/seattle/library/0025.jpg


London.
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/71/162619357_c842e81b5a_o.jpg


Alexandria:
http://cdn.bikyamasr.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/bibliotheca-alexandrina.jpg


Paris:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Paris-bibliotheque-mitterrand-passerelleSdB.jpg

Under construction:
Birmingham:
http://i47.tinypic.com/16m6dl0.jpg


Riga:
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/8753/2007lnbdienvidufasadetk6.jpg

Any more worth mentioning?

I would also mention these

ETH Zurich law library:
http://travel.spotcoolstuff.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/zurich-library-3.jpg
http://lh3.ggpht.com/-GCx4btLoVSs/S0VF_-CqO6I/AAAAAAAACy4/xvki0nefm0g/P1010662.JPG

Stuttgart public library:
http://archdezart.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/City-library-Stuttgart_02.jpg
http://www.sinbadesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/The-New-Central-Library-in-Stuttgart3-600x439.jpg

Berlin Freie Universität:
http://www.archispass.org/wp-content/uploads/2006/01/RR691.jpg
http://www.germany.info/contentblob/2108088/Galeriebild_gross/288853/berlin_freie_uni_library_dpa.jpg

Vancouver library:
http://0.tqn.com/d/gocanada/1/0/W/7/-/-/Vancouver_library.jpg
http://toulouseletrek.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/vancouver-library02.jpg

The library, the student housing, and the other office quarters were approved as expected yesterday, according to Aften Aften. As also expected, the museum was cancelled, and in stead an investigation into a museum at Tullinløkka or Tøyen was ordered + the possibilty for an aquarium i Bjørvika. Byrådet's meeting December 14th will have the final saying, though.

Article is not online, but also NRK Østlandssendingen reports from the meeting: http://nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/ostlandssendingen/1.7898269

The library, the student housing, and the other office quarters were approved as expected yesterday, according to Aften Aften.]

So they can basically start building as soon as the plot is ready and cleaned for all old road remains?

(“The Japanese take better care of Munch than Oslo County”) The owner of Snøhetta and the Opera administrator comments on the Munch museum in Aftenposten: http://www.aftenposten.no/kultur/-Japanerne-tar-bedre-vare-p-Munch-enn-Oslo-kommune-6714732.html

I think the owner of Snøhetta is right on. The design of Herreros architects is not easy to swallow, but it’s not that bad, and other matters are at stake. Above all they should consider the amount of money already spent on the project and the urgent need for a new museum. But also the fact that the museum needs to be located downtown to attract more visitors. Having the museum at Tøyen just doesn’t make any sense. It’s not fair to Edvard Munch’s art to use the museum as a tool in local politics. And it’s not really a good tool.

Tøyen is already a rather trendy place to live and benefits a lot more from this simple fact than I think it has ever done from the museum. It might be argued that the museum made Tøyen trendy, but I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that young people today want to live in close urban spaces and old houses. I think the real reason behind is that SV and AP sees it as a symbol of lifting the east by having the museum placed in a part of town that is geographically in the east. FRP just wants street cred for hindering the construction of an unpopular and expensive building.

I also think the sad repeating pattern of Oslo County arranging huge architectural competitions, only to dump all the projects after it’s done, will suffer consequences that the city counsel does not even understand. Architecture firms lose money when they partake in competitions, and they won’t keep investing their time with risky partners like the Oslo city counsel.

I think that when a new competition for the Munch museum at Tøyen will be held, a lot of the firms who would normally be interested will chose to stay away. This is just what happened when the first competition for Vestbanen was held and a lot of prestigious offices participated (Norman Foster/REX). The winning design was eventually rejected and when a new competition for the national museum at the same lot was held, hardly any well-known firms wanted to compete. Which I think is reflected in the quality of the designs for the new national museum.

But say what you will about the politicians. I also think the jury was stupid the chose a project no one would like. There were a lot of awesome contributions in the competition that were rejected because they didn’t perfectly fit the requirements stipulated. But these requirements shouldn’t weigh so heavily that you end up choosing something that nobody wants, thus giving the NIMBYs an easy job.

Lambda blir billigst
http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/12/08/kultur/munch-museet/lambda/kunst/politikk/19334385/

1. Lambda i Bjørvika: 1647 mill. kr.
2. Nytt Munch-museum på Tøyen: 1812 mill. kr.
3. Rehabilitering av Tøyen samt nybygg: 1875 mill. kr.
4. Rehabilitering av Nasjonalgalleriet: 1848 mill. kr.

And Carl I. Hagen's opinion's still means nada to me!

I read Carl I's comment in Aften today. Boy, I'm glad I'm not in Frp's group in the city board. What a regime he's running.

Debatten from yesterday: http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/810813/

Ok, so now Lambda is finally dead....

But will it be resurrected after the new investigations next year? No one knows...

http://nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/ostlandssendingen/1.7914833

What a shame. And utter waste.

A sad day indeed. :(

And what a waste of money. 110 million right out the door.

I'll be honest and say that I still don't see the qualities in Lambda. But as it is now, this is not what I wanted. Much better to have a museum that might not be great than none at all.

But there is a greater issue here: this is not a unique mess. It's not even an atypical one. It's the usual order on any big project. This is the story every fucking time a major project is being put forward in this town: too many local and national government offices have the power to veto and none have the (real) power to force it (yeah, Stoltenberg probably could in theory, but not in practice). The problem is that so many of them use their personal aesthetic views - not what is needed - as a guidance on what to allow and by that metric we usually end up spending ages bickering over clearly rational projects before a scaled down (inadequate) version of the same project is presented.

I wish the public could get their eyes open and realize that. It's nice with democratic decisions and all, but not when that is used as an excuse to kill and postpone and mire every project in endless bureaucracy. I don't think people realize how much damage we're inflicting on ourselves by this kind of conduct... :(

Well. Let's just hope this opens for a new, even better building at the same location. :)

Guess most of you have seen it, but can as well post this poor render of a possible Munch museum at Tullinløkka, here.. Looks pretty cool:
http://ap.mnocdn.no/incoming/article6720983.ece/ALTERNATES/w780c169/afp000264030.jpg
Munch på Tullinløkka (http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/Munch-p-Tullinlkka-6720985.html)

A giga upside down pyramid?
:ohno::puke:

Now when we finally have gotten the park there too ...

This is the same architect that suggested to put a supertall at Hovedøya, lovely fellow :)

Otherwise busy with designing 50-bathroom-mansions with grass on the roof in Oppdal!

Otherwise busy with designing 50-bathroom-mansions with grass on the roof in Oppdal!

Are you talking about Røkkes cottage now?

I don't think I've seen it before. How old is it? Perhaps I should call it plagiarism, since I suggested a pyramid on that spot already two years ago...

A giga upside down pyramid?

Not necessarily, but I think the concept is cool. Smaller stylish (water) entrance building in the middle connecting all museum areas underground.

Trying to make another Louvre?

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/4033744.jpg

Inverted pyramid fetisch :cheers:

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/5/54/540/540334/octamidX14_1215525678_1215525699.jpg
(3D:runARK)

Guess most of you have seen it, but can as well post this poor render of a possible Munch museum at Tullinløkka, here.. Looks pretty cool:
http://ap.mnocdn.no/incoming/article6720983.ece/ALTERNATES/w780c169/afp000264030.jpg
Munch på Tullinløkka (http://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/Munch-p-Tullinlkka-6720985.html)

i don't see the point of moving to tullinløkka when the other museum is moving from there?

Frp idea of cost-saving is studying an alternative that has recently been studied to house another art museum.

Look at the next page.

Some renders of the student complex behind the library. Source: http://www.atelieroslo.no/index_studenthousing_7.html#index_studenthousing_8.html

http://www.atelieroslo.no/images/studenthousing/Studentboliger_06.jpg

http://www.atelieroslo.no/images/studenthousing/Studentboliger_05.jpg

http://www.atelieroslo.no/images/studenthousing/Studentboliger_01.jpg

http://www.atelieroslo.no/images/studenthousing/Studentboliger_04.jpg

Continuing ...
http://www.atelieroslo.no/images/studenthousing/Studentboliger_03.jpg

http://www.atelieroslo.no/images/studenthousing/Studentboliger_02.jpg

http://www.atelieroslo.no/images/studenthousing/Studentboliger_07.jpg

Looks nice! Hope to see even more student housing being built in the coming years! :D

The student housing will only be in the building originally marked as offices, right (middle building)? Will it still be hotel in the easternmost building?

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k439/marshol/NyeDeichman.jpg
Source: Diagonale pdf (http://www.haveiendom.no/filestore/_JANUAR_-_PLANSJER/D06Diagonale.pdf)

^^ I'm unsure on what will be located in the last remaining building, but the student flats will only take up one of them. Here's a a quote from the link above:

The project is a development of one of the blocks in the Deichman axis, built behind the new Deichman Library. The urban design for this area was part of the competition for the new Deichman Library.

Finally...

Ny Munch-utredning lagt ut på anbud

Onsdag ble utlysningen av ny Munch-utredning lagt ut på anbud, noen uker forsinket.


I utlysningen blir det bedt om en utredning av Nasjonalgalleriet som vil gi et museum som er 3.400 kvadratmeter mindre enn de andre alternativene, skriver Aftenposten.

Bakgrunnen for utlysningen er at oslopolitikerne før jul forkastet bygging av nytt Munch-museum i Bjørvika. De ønsket å utrede to nye alternativer: Nasjonalgalleriet/Tullinløkka og Tøyen.

Kulturbyråd Hallstein Bjercke ber om utredning av to alternativer tilknyttet Nasjonalgalleriet, og tre alternativer på Tøyen.

Nasjonalgalleriet skal utredes med tanke på bruk av eksisterende bygg i kombinasjon med et bygg på Tullinløkka eller i Kristian August-kvartalet. Funksjonsarealet er spesifisert til 8.900 kvadratmeter. De tre mulige løsningene på Tøyen dreier seg om nybygg nord for dagens Munch-museum, rehabilitering og tilbygg eller riving av dagens museum, og nybygg på denne tomten. Arealkravet her er satt til 12.300 kvadratmeter, det samme som det skrinlagte Lambda-prosjektet i Bjørvika. (©NTB)

"bruk av eksisterende bygg i kombinasjon med et bygg på Tullinløkka" That sounds like a very bad solution to me.

yes, but in combination with Kristian August-kvartalet could be a good one, assuming that is the block north of løkka.

^^ My problem is that they are planing (according to Icecheeses quote) to divide the museum between two locations if they go for it, namely Tøyen and Tullinløkka. That's not a good idea imho.

^^ The way I read it the plan is to divide the museum between the already existing nasjonalgelleriet building, and a new building at Tullinløkka.

http://www.atelieroslo.no/images/studenthousing/Studentboliger_05.jpg
This space will, of course, be exactly this buisy all the time. :lol:

This space will, of course, be exactly this buisy all the time. :lol:

of course. I was looking for a thread "stupidest renders", but have not found one.. Most of the time renders are just overly optimistic about shiny happy people mingling about, but sometimes it's just too much :) A bit off topic of course, but in one of the renders for proposed Bispevika, you can see water lilies in the sea. You might as well have placed a herd of wild moose in the central park at Sørenga...

A "naust" will stand at the end of Paulsen-kaia for the next two years. It will be part of a walk path leading out to the plot which earlier was part of the Munch-museum.
The naust will be used for music events etc, and will get a great view over the city.
The initiative belongs to HAV eiendom, who hired groups of students from all three architect schools in Norway for this project.


Render:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/Skjermbilde2012-04-23kl100109.png


http://www.arkitektnytt.no/trestykker-blir-til-naust-i-bjorvika

Okay, so basically a colour stick drawing of Skrik set a new record price for painting/drawing sold on auction last night, the price totalling almost 120 million USD.

I think this puts the debate about the Munch museum in some perspective. The museum at Tøyen has never been remotely close to good enough or large enough or exposed enough given the position Munch has as an artist and the fact that he gave his own collection to the municipality.

That FRP, through the involvement of Carl I. Hagen suddenly comes bursting in saying that it's to expensive to build a new museum, is just such a disgrace. It strikes me as not so much a matter of numbers crushing (the numbers are equally bad for FRPs solutions), but a matter of signalling that we don't want to prioritize art as a form of culture, even if we're talking about world heritage and important art history and a potentially much needed high quality tourist attraction. We have plenty of museums, but few of them are visited by many others than the locals.

Travel boss agrees that we're bad at managing Munch's art. (http://www.vg.no/reise/artikkel.php?artid=10057756)

From Kulturbyggene i Bjørvika:

Stor interesse for Munch utredning

Over 100 stk. hadde lastet ned konkurransegrunnlaget for alternativutredningen for nytt Munch-museum. Da fristen gikk ut fredag 26. april hadde KIB mottatt 6 anbud. Det planlegges å inngå kontrakt med anbudsvinneren i løpet av uke 21, og arbeidet med utredningen skal være sluttført 10. september 2012.

Konkurransegrunnlaget er basert på bystyrevedtaket 14. desember 2011. Hensikten er å fremskaffe beslutningsgrunnlag med kostnadsoverslag og fremdriftsplan for mulige alternativer på:

1 Nasjonalgalleriet/Tullinløkkaområdet
2 Tøyen

Museumsalternativene som skal utredes er basert på to ulike programkrav, med tilsvarende ulike funksjonsareal. Uavhengig av programkravet er det en forutsetning at museumsalternativene som skal utredes oppfyller de samme museumstekniske, forskriftsmessige og bystyrevedtatte krav som plan og designkonkurransen 2008/09 la opp til. Det vil si energi og miljøkrav, brann og sikkerhetskrav, klimakrav for oppbevaring av kunst, krav til drift/vedlikehold og krav til universell utforming.

I say again... Now as the vikingships will remain in Bygdøy, the plot for the Kulturhistorisk Museum should be the place for the Munch museum. DEG needs to have a major attraction at that location and it is better to have a Munch museum there, instead of an impotent KHM without ships.