Operaens Omgivelser

Operaens Omgivelser is the development of the sites surrounding the Operahouse, the sites from Opera-allmenningen (A8, A9) to around Akerselv-
allmenningen and Paulsenkaia to Bjørvika-utstikkeren.

First there was a competition for this entire area which later led to competitions of the main sites. In 2008 to 2009 two major competitions were
held, the Munch/Steinersen-museum competition and the Deichman Library competition. This made it clear that some of Norway's finest museums
and libraries will be moved and located directly beside the Opera, Oslo's and one of Norway's most popular attractions at the time. Between the
Munch/Steinersen-museum and Deichman Library there will be mixed-used buildings with shops, restaurants and boutiques, residentials, offices and
cultural usages.

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7390/bjrvikakart1x1000.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dE9cR.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Skyscrapercity/BETWEENBAR_3pix.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Skyscrapercity/BETWEENBAR_3pix.jpg

The map above show Operaens Omgivelser, and its sites. Scroll further down to see the details of each site, or use this quicklink.

A8 (Deichman Library) (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=41908192#post41908192)
A9 (Student housing, offices, shops and boutiques) (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=73362747#post73362747)
B1 and B4 (Apartments, offices, shops and boutiques) (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=73362773#post73362773)
B5 (Munch Museum) (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=73362783#post73362783)
A11 (Sukkerbiten) (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=73362785#post73362785)



http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Skyscrapercity/BETWEENBAR_3pix.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Skyscrapercity/BETWEENBAR_3pix.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/wt11y.jpg

A8 (Deichman Library)

Lund Hagem Arkitekter and Atelier Oslo won the architectural competition for the new Deichman Library with their proposal, "Diagonale".

The Diagonale solution proposes: To divide the site into three buildings. By doing this, we give each building a human scale and integrate the
project into the city.

To place the Library on the site towards Operaallmenningen. Library visitors are offered the best views towards the city, the fjord and the
surrounding green hills of Oslo; and the shortest connection to public transport.

To make the Library visible to the public. The top of the library cantilevers out to announce its presence to the visitors arriving from down town
Oslo and the Central Station. At the same time the view to the opera is secured by a large cut in the volume.

To create entrances to the east, west, and south. Big cuts in the facade mark the entrances on three sides of the building, inviting the public
coming from all parts of the city. The same cuts give views into the different environments of the library.

To create a spectacular interior. The core of the new Deichman library is based on light and space and continuous diagonal views established
between the library interior and the surrounding streets/square. Through atriums and openings in the different floors the library is united with the
city outside.

To communicate with the city. The façade diffuses the sunlight, giving a calm feeling to the interior. At night, the building will glow and change
appearance as a reflection of all the different activities and events inside the library.

High resolution renderings (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=73263939#post73263939)

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9642/diagonale1x1000.jpg

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/3589/diagonale6x1000.jpg

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5908/diagonale2x1000.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/8500/diagonale4x1000.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/D7GJ1.jpg

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/9396/prosjektarkdeichmanskeb.jpg

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/6371/diagonale3x1000.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/aSPDH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/E5Wkf.jpg

A9 (Student housing, offices, shops and boutiques)

In the winning project of the new Deichman library, the site was divided into two parts, A8 (Deichman library) and A9 (commercial areas). A9 was
reserved for commercial utilization such as housing, offices and shopping.

A pedestrian street cuts diagonally through the site A9 and creates two smaller sites that measure 2500m2 and 1800 m2. The diagonal street
establishes a physical spatial sequence, as well as a visual connection, between the front of the opera and the sea from the north- east. The two
sites are proposed developed with student housing (eastern building) and offices (western building). Restaurant, offices and shops will occupy both
sites at street level.

Location as well as excellent light and view conditions make the site suitable and attractive for housing development. Student housing is seen as a
positive contribution specifically to counteract the commercial dominance of the area, and help make it a vibrant active part of town day and night.

Lund Hagem Arkitekter and Atelier Oslo is collaborating on this project.

High resolution rendering (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=73263247#post73263247)

http://i.imgur.com/q4FVZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/L5VFz.jpg

B1 and B4 (Apartments, offices, shops and boutiques)

The original winning plan for site B1 and B4 proposes a line of towers, 7 floors tall closest to site B5 (Munch Museum) rising taller to reach 14 floors
in the north to Dronning Eufemias Street and OperaKvarteret. This plan has been criticized and they've worked out a new plan with three different
proposals for these sites, you can view the three proposals here.

http://i.imgur.com/X5ELs.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/kWjbc.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4KP05.jpg

Munch Museum

This is the winning proposal of the new Munch Museum in Oslo. Architect Juan Herreros (Herreros Arquitectos (http://www.herrerosarquitectos.com/)) in cooperation with Norwegian LPO
Arkitekter (http://www.lpo.no/) designed this 56m, 14 floor tall museum which will be located at the harbor front, next to Oslo Opera House.

The proposal, named Lambda was announced as winner of the competition on March 27th 2009, and was finally approved by Oslo City Council
on August 26th. However, the project has received lot of criticism and the final design might look quite different than the current architectural
renderings. You can read a much more detailed description of is architecture and design here (http://www.urbika.com/projects/view/809-lambda).

This project was cancelled on December 14th, 2011 following a major political debate lasting for half a year. 200 Million NOK was spent on the
arrangement of competitions and agreements before NIMBYism and last minute mind-changing politicians buried the project for good. What will
become of the site is yet unknown.

High resolution renderings (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=73368457#post73368457)

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/8034/munchmuseum5x1000.jpg
Illustration by MIR (http://mir.no/)

http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/2595/munchmuseum6x1000.jpg
Illustration by MIR (http://mir.no/)

http://i.imgur.com/Fur3j.jpg
Illustration by MIR (http://mir.no/)

http://i.imgur.com/ZXkjG.jpg

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/4633/munchmuseum7x1000.jpg
Illustration by MIR (http://mir.no/)

http://i.imgur.com/U4qpU.jpg
Illustration by MIR (http://mir.no/)

http://i.imgur.com/KDTgC.jpg

A11 Sukkerbiten

info coming

i really like this building :)

id love to see what impact itd have on the oslo skyline, though (with the opera house and everything!!)

in the 1st pic... will all those buildings behind the museum also be built? ive never heard anything about them!

i really like this building :)

id love to see what impact itd have on the oslo skyline, though (with the opera house and everything!!)

in the 1st pic... will all those buildings behind the museum also be built? ive never heard anything about them!
It's Operakvarteret (Barcode), right?

Personally I think there was more exciting proposals. But still pretty beautiful! :)

From ABCNYHETER today: "The Worlds eyes are pointet toward's Oslo" says arcitekt Juan Herreros, who are in town at present time.

http://www.abcnyheter.no/files/images/2009-35/hose.normal.jpg

Article is in norwegian.

http://www.abcnyheter.no/node/94558

I really hope that the Munch Museum will be built as it is in the renders.

The building itselfs doesn't bother me, but the lamelle buildings behind doenst look good imo.

It's Operakvarteret (Barcode), right?

Nono, they are apart in the Munch Museum actually. You can see KLP's building in Barcode starting on the rightmost side. Will be interesting to see how those buildings between the Munch main building and Barcode will look like at last, since they are right behind the Opera.

The building itselfs doesn't bother me, but the lamelle buildings behind doenst look good imo.

I think they are comparable with Barcode on its early stage. There is loads of architects working on this project now, so wait and see and hope they get the best out of it!

Note, i was not too pleased about this winner, hoping it will grow on me, but yet i am very skeptical to the chosen architecture of Lambda.

id love to see what impact itd have on the oslo skyline, though

You know, it will be hidden "behind" Barcode from any angle that matters, that's why i think it should be taller.... :lol:

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/Barcodephotoshopmedbgbzoom-1.jpg

Unless you are at Ekeberg, then it will look like this:
http://media.aftenposten.no/archive/01094/Alt1-3D_Bjorvika-P_1094004x.jpg

Tiny one behind the opera:
http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/784/784228/7842281/jpg/active/320x.jpg

It would just be great i think, if they built Lambada a bit higher, but i just hope that it wont be cut off a bit, because of byantikvaren and other nimby's.

Speaks out about the "quarrelcity" (Oslo ofcourse) ;)

But in any case, Juan Herreros are convinced that the Munch Museum will be completed in 2013.

Article is in norwegian: http://www.dagsavisen.no/kultur/article434970.ece

I'm one of the nimbys on this one, but only because there were so many (all?) other more interesting proposals.

Oh well. He won. Grats. Build it already. Oh, and of course, make it higher. A lot higher! :D

The project is now on hold, after New York based architects REX have filed a formal complaint – claiming they should have won with their project; “Yian-Yang”.

http://www.aftenposten.no/kul_und/article3280909.ece

I hope this doesn’t postpone the project too long. I have warmed up to “Lambda”, and this “Yian-Yang”-building looks boring from the render in Aftenposten. Anyway, Oslo doesn’t need more bad publicity in relation to architecture competitions.

^^ omg...

well, “Yian-Yang” is worse than Lambda, so i surely hope the complaint fail.

To be honnest, I wouldn't mind.

Material from the Fjordcity-thread:
Yin & Yang
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u315/erreflot/Bilde077.jpg

Munch:

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/konk/DSC_1573.jpg

Someone will make a debate out of everything. Actually I like the commercial areas better in this project, though:)

Pretty foolish grounds for complaint - waste of time and money for anyone involved... I can't stand that flat ikea box in the middle of the water like that, if the building was to be located in such a good location as here, it had to be a really radical design, not like that proposal at all...

i just can't help but think that something like the Rica Seilet in Molde should be built somewhere along the waterfront of Oslo. :nuts:
i mean, it kinda needs something special there, maybe even something ala the Spinnaker tower in the city of Portsmouth, England.
For those who don't know, it's this building in Molde, Norway.
Seilet
http://www.touristphoto.no/images/more%20og%20roms%202008/molde_seilet_hot2.jpg
Spinnaker.
http://en.structurae.de/files/photos/614/spinnaker_tower_18sep05.jpg

Anyone of you guys agree, sort of? :p

I am waiting in patience for Tjuvholmen tower :)

Ok, looks like we need a new architectural competition for this one, they moved it to Sweden!!

^^

Forget the building, we're keeping the art! ;)

Is this the work of some Oslo NIMBY?

We're rid of Lambda?!? Woohoo! :banana:

Hope it's not Yin Yang, though. I agree with both Þróndeimr and IceCheese; the commercial areas are better, but the building itself is just sad.

wait, the munch museum isnt being built after all?? :?

I wish, but no, they just joked about the thread was misplaced yesterday....:ohno:

ooh okay.

you wish it wouldnt be built?

how come? i think it looks great :)

The museum itself doen´t bother me even though most of the other proposals was better than this imo. The buildings behind it on the other hand.... They looks stupid with lammelleblocks simular to each other only gradually lower. Difficult to explain (in english atleast) But I get the same feeling looking at this as when I look at a long buildingfacade without variation.

The museum itself doen´t bother me even though most of the other proposals was better than this imo. The buildings behind it on the other hand.... They looks stupid with lammelleblocks simular to each other only gradually lower. Difficult to explain (in english atleast) But I get the same feeling looking at this as when I look at a long buildingfacade without variation.

were these in the same proposal, though?

i thought that these had nothing to do with the munch museum and that they were just a part of the architects visualization.

are you saying that all these buildings behind the museum will be built?

Awww ... :(

are you saying that all these buildings behind the museum will be built?
Im afraid so. I have know clue if that is final or not...

The design of those is REALLY uncertain. There is little reason to think those buildings will look like that, and there's also reason to believe that there will be a change of concepts, though that is more than I know.

I think it is unlikely those other buildings will get built. They're in violation of the height limits set for that area, and they break against the Barcode concept, and would hide the museum. I can't see the City Council giving a go-ahead for that.

Nah, i wouldn't care about them other buildings from the competition mjooks, there will be buildings there, but they will not look like that :) However i expect some more density in Bjørvika than what is regulated for now. Considering Hav looses some squaremeters of office or residential they have the right to build according to the infrastructure agreement.

Opera director lashes out in Aften today, he proposes to build a full-size mock-up of the museum on-site so everyone can see what a monsterbuilding this will be :lol:

God, when did the rule come that every important building should have a VAST area around it with no buildings other disturbing creations. Today only the Palace can be said to have such a postition. Most Oslo sights are well integrated with the city, and have equally tall or taller neighbors. Examples are many, but I'll mention the National Theater, Stortinget, the City hall and Stortorvet Gjæstgiveri, to name a few buildings that have tall and architectually attention-seeking buildings close by. Where come this from that a building's architecture depends on the neighbors that aren't even connected? It's both non-sense, and is based on a view on architecture that impossibly can be applied in the real world.

Hav eiendom has published a proposal for Planprogram for Munch and Deichman:

http://haveiendom.no/filestore/Bilder/Kartkunngjring_Ingress.jpg?size=450x1000
http://haveiendom.no/nor/Aktuelt/Varsel+av+oppstart+planarbeid.9UFRjIXr.ips

An open meeting will be held at 2. march kl 18:00 :)

The goal is to have a detail-regulation approved by City Hall in june 2011.

Alternatives for the blocks north of Munchs museum:
http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss282/Ingenioren3/Munchkvartalene.jpg

Go for the adjusted karrebuildings

^^ Agree with that. Varied and dense.

Anyone wants to see how Lambda would look if it was 20 meter slimmer?

http://www.prosjekt-fjordbyen.oslo.kommune.no/getfile.php/fjordbykontoret%20%28FJORDBYEN%29/Internett%20%28FJORDBYEN%29/Dokumenter/dokument/PBEs_Vedlegg_2_-_Illustrasjoner_10.pdf

Now if it would also grow in height, it's appearance could be enhanced even more :)

Sorry i can't help it.. I think it's a terrible location for any high rise. Build highrises where they are needed and make sense. Like Vaterland, Ring 1 and majorstua. This is just masturbation. I happen to like the view of ekeberg from the opera. Now this.. I think Lambda is a Fine building but please not there.. I would much more would like to see a nice marina on this spot.

Sorry i can't help it.. I think it's a terrible location for any high rise. Build highrises where they are needed and make sense. Like Vaterland, Ring 1 and majorstua. This is just masturbation. I happen to like the view of ekeberg from the opera. Now this.. I think Lambda is a Fine building but please not there.. I would much more would like to see a nice marina on this spot.

i'm inclined to agree, at least with the design as it is - it's all just a bit blocky and dull, although i seemed to remember the design being rather more transparent, which kind of shifts the observations the report suggests.

despite all the complaints about it blocking the view from the park, it is the view from the opera that seems to be spoit the most, but again, it would be a new view rather than the white box the report implies....

The discussion on this is not over, if news outlets are to be believed. Recent developments:

Lambda is a copy of the earlier Woerman Tower (http://www.nrk.no/kultur_og_underholdning/1.6943109) (also Herreros) according to architect Hvoslef-Eide (whoever he is). Professor Gabriele Tagliaventi (whoever he is) doesn't mention that, but agrees that it is indeed a combination of a UFO crash site and a nazi bunker (http://www.nrk.no/kultur_og_underholdning/1.7148440) and takes the opportunity to hate on some other buildings featured in NRKs nomination of "Norways ugliest buildings" (http://www.nrk.no/kultur_og_underholdning/1.7142708).

And Riksantikvaren, seen with one of his supporters here (http://smiley.ttaaeell.co.cc/ugly/TAEL_SmileyCenter_Ugly%20(64).gif), is going to meet with Byrådet on thursday (www.aftenposten.no/kul_und/article3464026.ece) to persuade them to lower the museum to six stories. Venstre, one of the original backers of the project, seems to think the natural outcome is what they call a "break to rethink".

It seems Riksantikvaren believes Lambda is too tall, but not if they reduce the overall volume in Kongsbakken. For as we can all agree; housing for the citys people may be important, but being able to draw a line between two points on a map is what defines our cultural heritage and our soul.

^^

But of course. Never mind unimportant things like the fact that because of Oslo S this is the most logical place in the country to build densely. Nope, being able to stand in Middelalderparken and look at Akershus Festning (something nobody either cared or knew about before riksantikvaren pointed it out in an article) is suddenly the most important part of city-planning in Bjørvika.

Finally new and VERY interesting pics from Plan- og bygningsetatens pages;

includes different locations and more graphics to illustrate.

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/alternativpbe.png
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/alternativbya.png
First floor inside picture;
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/1etgmunch.png

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/utsiktfraekeberg.png

Who can say that the placement behind the opera really is an alternative?! No way!!
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/munchb4.png

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/frasukkerbiten.png

This is such a superamazing picture. Cant wait for it to look exactly like this.

speed it up gents!

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/aa2.png

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/aa1.png

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/aa8.png
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/aa7.png
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/aa6.png

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/aa5.png
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/aa4.png
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/aa3.png

And look at these amazing pictures man. WOW this will be great. They (PBE) recommend the lamell structure which is pictured here. kvartalsvise eller hybrid were not seen as ideal, and i would certainly have to agree with that.

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/lamellbakmunch-1.png

The first picture i think is absolutely amazing. Extremely nice density and an all over look to it. Looks urban, but yet open. Hope it gets to look exactly like this actually. (sorry, the one over and this one which is the extension towards the Munch museum.
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/lamelldel2.png

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/lamelldel3.png

^^ still, those are some extremely boring looking boxes. I am still waiting for individual designs that makes each building unique and creates much more diversity among them.

The first picture i think is absolutely amazing. Extremely nice density and an all over look to it. Looks urban, but yet open. Hope it gets to look exactly like this actually. (sorry, the one over and this one which is the extension towards the Munch museum.
http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/lamelldel2.png

Is this Kværnerbyen or downtown Oslo? I can't tell.

Really not a fan of the lamell structure. :bash:

This is the Munch thread and it is offcourse not Kværnerbyen. When you look at all the different proposals for this exact location, lameller is the one who sticks out the most with its very good solutions regarding visibility through and towards the "old city". Also when it comes to diversity, i think. The lamells will look much more different when they are built, because this is only to decide which structure to follow.

When the alternative would be two gigantic quartals (say like Vika) then the choice for me is pretty obvious. The height issue would be somewhat the same, and to have to look at two large and long quartals would be devastating and a loss for Oslos waterfront. Diversity is the only way to go when it comes to city development if you ask me. Just look at Byporten, Galleri Oslo, so ugly almost everyone wants to tear them down. Short front, long and low buildings is the way to go. diversify everything.

^^

I was being sarcastic. :nuts:

Then problem is that the only reason they're going with this is because of visibility. It would be much better for the urban space if they were enclosed blocks.

I don't understand why you mention vika, this is the exact same building structure as they have there, and it doesn't work there either.

These renders confirm my fear. I fear that this building will disrupt / dominate most if the nice view from opera taket towards Ekeberg. It will be brutally close. It is a shame since this view today is very pleasant and most likely in the future we will only be staring into this 14 fl block.. Why not build it closer to KLP & Visma?

It must be said that like the building very much.

Oslo looks like it was planned by a drunken bureaucrat. If you don't have any creativity or sense of finesse, at least you should do it the safe boring way like the swedes. We fail in both.

(I like Barcode though, but there should be more diversity in hight... again the drunken bureaucrat.)

These renders confirm my fear. I fear that this building will disrupt / dominate most if the nice view from opera taket towards Ekeberg. It will be brutally close. It is a shame since this view today is very pleasant and most likely in the future we will only be staring into this 14 fl block.. Why not build it closer to KLP & Visma?

It must be said that like the building very much.

Why in hell should the opera be a viewpoint of the city?! That was not the intention at all. It is an urban space, and it happens to offer some view towards the waterfront to the west, where the building is angled. If you're so keen looking at Ekeberg, please take the gondola.

I don't like it either. Lamell structure is there for the purpose of visibility through it only. I think it always will be a "commie block" style structure..

So Im guessing from most of the comments above that none of you like barcode?

^^ Even the earliest pre-designs of Barcode showed a lot more diversity in design and architecture than this... (what lack at Barcode is different heights of the buildings)

hmm? Your memory seems to be a bit short, dont think I dont remember you guys howling about boring boxes back then too, you know who you are. The Munch museum is actually one of my favourite projects right now.

hmm? Your memory seems to be a bit short, dont think I dont remember you guys howling about boring boxes back then too, you know who you are. The Munch museum is actually one of my favourite projects right now.

The Munch museum is fine by me (as long as they don't cut it in half...), though the lamellblokker looks really dull, but as stated earlier, i am still waiting for individual designs that makes each building unique and creates much more diversity among them.

First design of Barcode looked like this (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/cityq/Projects%20and%20developments/Barcode03model1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/cityq/Projects%20and%20developments/Barcode03model2.jpg), while the second design showed a taller building on 100m+. We certainly complained when they reduced the taller buildings down to 67m, and the lower ones up to 63m/64m. The first design also showed their intention of making each building unique, thats why they won the competition. That is why many here is negative to the lamellblokker solution. If the final designs of each turned out to be as diverse as Barcode most will change their views.

Compering barcode to this lamelle blocks is like compering apples to oranges.
IMO, this lamelle blocks is whats destroying the Munch museum itself. Its like the lamelle blocks and Munch museum is ONE complex connected to each other. And the visibility argument must be one of the most stupid arguments ever.

Compering barcode to this lamelle blocks is like compering apples to oranges.
IMO, this lamelle blocks is whats destroying the Munch museum itself. Its like the lamelle blocks and Munch museum is ONE complex connected to each other. And the visibility argument must be one of the most stupid arguments ever.

well, they are all blocks arent they, not a kvartal structure. Care to explain to me why the PwC building is non-comparable to the blocks we saw in that render?

^^

Well, there's less space between the barcode buildings then there are between these. I think blocks would have been better for barcode as well, but since they are so close together it's not that big a deal.

These buildings however are so far apart that they will create too much of a suburban feel for an area that should be urban. And the reason for i them being like this has nothing to do with urban space, it's because:

1. It will let you see more stuff from the roof of the opera.

2. It will let you see the boring side of the opera from Kongsbakken.

3. It will give the offices more light and thus make the rent higher.

And in the absolute centre of Oslo, those are not the things that should be in focus.

This is such a superamazing picture. Cant wait for it to look exactly like this.

speed it up gents!

http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz244/weidel23/aa2.png

that is gross - it looks like one of those sketches from the 60s or 70s advertising cities of the future that now look dirty and overbearing.

the beauty of barcode that is lacking here is variety.

like so many developments we discuss here, with these locations, it is such a good chance to create something amazing.

i guess the designs will change, but volume and size-wise, this is dull

Now one must always be careful of copying toilets from the side of the road when designing a new landmark, but don't you think Lambda would look alot nicer if it had another "knekk" like this one:
http://www.turistveg.no/stream_file.asp?iEntityId=1784

The proposal for "Offentlig ettersyn" is ready:

http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/casedet.asp?mode=all&caseno=200911541

Amoung other things there are some renders from the Karré-alternative. It also looks like there will not be a bridge to Sørengutstikker...

Much-museet kan bli skrinlagt. (http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/oslo/article3927918.ece)

"- Dersom Riksantikvarens skisserte endringer tas til følge, blir neppe Munch-museet realisert, sier Gunnar Leganger, sjef for etaten for kulturbyggene i Bjørvika."

http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af172/mjoks007/_Escenic-munch_Tit_1388300x.jpg

^^Yippy!!!:banana:

I'll be happy if the building is canceled, but I hope they will build something else there that will be attractive and nice and not just a grey abandoned spot.

^^Aquarium gogo! Just start a new competition already:cheers:

Should rather concentrate expanding the existing museum at Tøyen and more important, make the surrounding up there more inviting.

No news here, we knew this already when the winner was announced. Let's see what happends in MD. Solheim keeps saying we need to build tall buildings yet MD has a long story of shooting down every highrise at their table... :ohno:

:no:

Lambda has to go! I have tried to like it for so long, and actually come close to doing so based on some of the illustrations, but when I once again looked at the picture used in the project presentation I was reminded of its ugliness.

http://haveiendom.no/filestore/nya_filer_opplastade_munch_deichman__mars/newLambda.jpg
(Picture from http://haveiendom.no)

I don't think we shall jump to any conclusions here. This is probably just tactics in the ongoing fight. Still I have to agree with many of you, Lambda will probably not be a big loss for Oslo. The buiding have qualities though, and I think it actually would be better live than on renders, unlike many other projects. What I don't like about the news, is that we probably can kiss goodbye to a new Munch museum in many years if Lambda is not build. I have strong doubts that they will spend millions in a different location in Oslo. Munch deserves a great building! The second thing I don't like is of course the power of Riksantikvaren in these matters, and the insanity that Solheim has some sort of final saying.. Could it be worse?

^^Aquarium gogo! Just start a new competition already:cheers:

Should rather concentrate expanding the existing museum at Tøyen and more important, make the surrounding up there more inviting.
I think they should try to make Tøyenparken as Oslo easts answer to frognerparken, only with a Munch instead of Vigeland.

Once again that keep fucking things up. That better not happen this time as well.

It has happened so often now that architectural competitions end up in nothingville. They just go on for a couple of years or decades then as so many others they fade out into the sand. Much because of weak politicians and weak planning from the beginning.

First and foremost; what has to be decided before you move a major institution?

You have to find a designated area. OK! Then you off course have to have enough space on this designated area to build all the area that you need when youre building a fancy and new architectural design tower for Oslo down town. OK! I personally mean that they also should allready then decide both the height and width of the new building, because this alone will save a lot of complaints and misunderstandinds after it is all over. It will off course be very architecturally wrong to lay such groundrules, but it is obviously needed, because Norway have shown this ohhhhhhh so many times. I say bring back Trond Giske to the cultureminister post and get things done the right way from the beginning. If both of these areas are covered everything should seemingly go smooth. But no, if a design that implements higher regulations that what it is regulated for at the time and that WHAT THEN????????? Ok, either the jury cant allow the height of the proposal, or the competition have to underline the fact that it cant be higher or wider than so and so. I mean, what really is the problem in making these competetions??? Are the makers of the competitions complete and utter idiots if they allow suggestions and proposals that if they win they won't even be built. Not only will they not be built, no, they will be winners for a couple of years all the way up until the day they are suppose to start building it, THEN we say, no, no, no, this is too high and too wide. Lets just pull the last 5 years and couplel of hundred million of Nkr allready spent on the project and lets start all over again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If this happens here, i sincerely and utterly hope that the entire byantikvaren, byplanleggingssjefen og byrådet complete a collective harakiri. If i were so incompetent and doing so over many many years, i really cant understand that government can sit and watch hundreds of millions getting pissed away on planning and shit that doesnt need happen just because of byantikvaren, and a couple of wankers who doesnt like it. Yes i know, it is off course allowed not to like it, but as with everything. Perhaps those who are not architects shouldnt judge! Lets look at accountability here. If 10.000 unemployed complained about this building, does that really count against a jury of 10-15 extremely qualified city planners and architects? I dont think so. Yes, mistakes have been made in Oslo, but i think Munch in time will be a very wise and symbolic build
ing, that can show Munchs creations on and in a prime location in a prime building.

Gaaaahhh.... I don't know what to think?

On the one hand I think lambda was bleak and boring compared to almost all other proposals in the Munch contest. On the other hand I think Riksantikvaren is being an unreasonable shit head even by that office' standards.

Who to support here?

Nimby < Highrise

Anytime :)

Danny 88 likes Mr. Love architectures post

1. februar blir det folkemøte på Sentrum scene om planen for Munch-museet

Another skittkasting meeting, where you have to be massivly for or against?

Public hearing:
http://www.plan-og-bygningsetaten.oslo.kommune.no/plankunngjoringer/2011/article185102-48914.html

^^Seems like PBE supporting Yimby in the view of the plots behind the museum.

Here's the 3 alternatives for the new munch museum:

Lets hope for alternative 1.
http://www.nrk.no/kultur-og-underholdning/1.7466661

maybe it would just be best to start from scratch - there doesn't seem much point in having a competition, choosing a winner and then deciding that the winner isn't appropriate and having to change it...

crazy.

Riksantikvarens forslag til et smalere bygg skyldes et ønske om å gjøre det mulig å se vestover i Oslo hvis man står i Middelalderparken.

Å bygge Munchmuseet så bredt som arkitekten foreslår vil nemlig blokkere for den såkalte «Kongsbakkeåpninga».

How could the architect and the jury forget about the famous "Kongsbakkeåpninga" ? Some people must have their heads under their arms..:|

From østlandssendingen about the meeting (http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/indeks/249063/) at Sentrum Scene today, including what Juan Herreros says about the the two smaller options.

I'm sorry to any offended forumer, but I'll take this in Norwegian...


Hei karer! I overimorgen (den 25.) er det høringsfrist for Munch/Stenersen, Deichmanske, og området rundt. YIMBY bidro med en høringsuttalelse i forbindelse med kunngjøringen av planprogrammet, og nå er det selve reguleringsplanen som er ute på høring. I den anledning kunne det jo være greit å få med noen innspill.

Først og fremst er det jo museet og biblioteket som skal innkorporeres i den totale reguleringsplanen for Bjørvika. Selv om mange her på forumet har sterke følelser rundt utformingen av særlig Lambda av Herreros arcitectos, syns jeg egentlig ikke YIMBY har noe særlig å komme med her. Eventuelt får man påpeke at man støtter en fullskala løsning, og ikke en av de bearbeidede forslagene av hhv PBE og Riksantikvaren, som vil medføre et redusert areal for utstillingene, og en underminering av arkitektens visjon. For min del kunne de like gjerne bygd nytt på Tøyen, men det får bli en annen diskusjon.

Mer interessant for oss er arealene "bak" Munch, boligområdene B1 og B4, de to kvartalene mellom Munch og Barcode. Her ser det ut til at det blir lamellblokker, til tross for at argumentene i planen taler i mot. Den eneste endringen fra det opprinnelige forslaget fra Herreros, er at man deler lamellene i to (litt som blokkene på Tveita), og at man får en nedtrapping (!) mot Barcode, i form av at siste blokk får kuttet 4-5 etasjer, antagligvis for å blidgjøre beboerne i KLP-bygget. Bygningen rundt lamellene vil være to etasjer i B1, og én etasje i B4. For å finne ut hvordan en slik løsning fungerer i praksis på bymiljøet rundt, kan man jo tenke på hotell Skandinavia, som har en tilsvarende løsning.
YIMBY bør forsvare løsningen "bearbeidet karré" som det eneste riktige forslaget. Dette er den eneste mulige måten for å skape en tett og urban by i området. Alternativet bør allikevel kunne inkorporere et signaltårn eller to i oppmot 14 etasjer, slik som den ene lamellen i hovedalternativet er.

I planen enes man også om å ikke inkludere bro mot Sørenga fra utstikkeren. Det argumenteres mot at å dreie fotgjengerstrømmene mot næringsarealene i Bispevika, sikrer man liv og kundegrunnlag her. Det er forsåvidt likegreit for meg. Dersom Gamlebyen ring sikrer nærhet til skinnegående kollektivtransport for Sørenga, er det jo lite som taler for broen uansett.

Sist, men ikke minst blir det to kvartaler "bak" Deichmanske, A9 a og b. Den ene av dem blir 4-500 studentboliger (og "ungdomsboliger"?), slik vi har sett planer for tidligere. Det andre kvartalet hotell. Det vil bli en skråstilt gangvei mellom kvartalene, som blir delvis overbygd. Dette ser både spennende og urbant ut!

Ellers bør man kanskje kommentere området rundt Akerselvalmenningen. Dette blir et bredt belte mellom byggene, og vi ser jo allerede hvor lite attraktivt området er blitt på operasiden. Kanskje bør man kommentere at området må beplantes, helst med store trær, og fylles med benker, for at det ikke skal bli forblåst og goldt. Forelagte tegninger ser altfor åpne ut! Utsikt er ikke noe å ettertrakte foran trær!

Legg forøvrig merke til at øya "sukkerbiten" er en del av planen. Her foreslår man et lite bygg med et udefinert antall etasjer, med utadrettet virksomhet. Håper på arkitektkonkurranse, og et spennende konsept!

Utifra disse tankene vil jeg prøve å utforme et innspill til reguleringsplanen på vegne av YIMBY, men først vil jeg gjerne høre deres tanker og hva dere savner i planen. Linken til planen finner dere her (http://www.haveiendom.no/filestore/Planforslag/PLANFORSLAG_PBE.pdf), om dere ikke skulle ha lest den allerede;)

Linken til planen finner dere her (http://www.haveiendom.no/filestore/Planforslag/PLANFORSLAG_PBE.pdf), om dere ikke skulle ha lest den allerede;)

I see from this plan that the gondola is only considered around the museum, and I guess that's the reason for this mast we've been reading about lately. Are there any special reasons for this? Why can't it be based further southeast, with no mast between the two stations? (or, alternatively, smaller masts like a ski-lift if needed) Is it because people don't want to walk that far? Or is it a deliberate attempt to marginalize the eastern part of the town? So that the fancy people can jump straigth from the opera to the sculpture park and some champagne at Ekeberg without having the aweful experience of venturing past middelalderparken? To me it seems like the best way to make the this area less lively and attractive. Just fly over it... You will get a nice view from the top anyway, we don't need an aerial sightseeing option..
:ohno:

Anyone have some info on why this selection? I can't remember seeing any discussion about it (lived abroad a long time, sorry if this is already an old topic)

Sounds like you are doing great with writing this statement IceCheese, sukkerbiten is a location worthy of an architect competition for sure. (This time hopefully not such a boxy and boring winner... )

About the Gondola, i think it's quite nice that it will be visible in the city and floating over you when going around Bjørvika, don't see why it would make the city less lively - because of that mast? It's just a novelty that will look good and ride it once, most headed for Ekeberg will go for the far cheaper tram anyhow. Rather extend it than shorten it i say, running Ekeberg - Akerhus Fortress with an intermediate stop at Munch and maybe even Middelalderparken aswell:)

^^ nah, the mast is just ugly. hope at least they can make it nice, if it's coming anyway. yes, I guess most people wont take the gondola anyway, that's why I don't see the need for it there. tusenfryd is not so far away :)

maybe a ferry would be better, if people want to see the skyline? not talking about those large ones going to the islands, but smaller with multiple stops, like a water bus. they have nice ones in geneva, functioning just like buses. they stop and leave about as fast as buses too, so they would be a viable mode of transportation.

http://www.dailytravelphotos.com/images/2010/100722_geneva_switzerland_lake_water_fountain_taxi_downtown_lakefront_travel_photography_MG_3030.jpg

maybe with a stop at sørenga, munch, fortress, etc, etc, to huk, or fornebu. a problem during winter, perhaps, if they continue like the last two...

Utifra disse tankene vil jeg prøve å utforme et innspill til reguleringsplanen på vegne av YIMBY, men først vil jeg gjerne høre deres tanker og hva dere savner i planen. Linken til planen finner dere her (http://www.haveiendom.no/filestore/Planforslag/PLANFORSLAG_PBE.pdf), om dere ikke skulle ha lest den allerede;)
The importance of several architects is getting involved in each quarter with short facades with varied expressions, like they do it at Tjuvholmen might be good to emphasize.

The importance of several architects is getting involved in each quarter with short facades with varied expressions, like they do it at Tjuvholmen might be good to emphasize.
+1.

well, if I can still voice my opinion despite the OT ramblings about the cables and masts, I support the call for greenery, especially tall trees that are evergreen. firs, pines, and spruces, large junipers etc, are not used enough for inner-city decoration in our wintery country, IMHO

Agree, there are so many spruce to be found in nature, but none in the urban environment. They actually look good in the Nov-May period :)

Renders of the "reworked carré" alternative:


Seen from the Opera roof:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/Karr1.png


From the Munch museum:
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/Karr2.png

I changed this thread to the better, instead of just the Munch Museum i figured it would be better to have a Operaens Omgivelser, which includes Munch, Deichman, and the plots between A9, B1, B3+4 etc.

Check out the first page. :)

Also, Oslo development thread, Big Fjordcity thread, DnB NOR, Barcode B13's first post has been updated in the recent days.

Operaens Omgivelser

http://i.imgur.com/wt11y.jpg



As excited as i am with the whole project, when i look at this overview, all i think is - LOW.

There just seems to be, especially B4 and sørenga, the potential to go really really high.

It just seems such a waste. I know i'm preaching to the converted, but it just makes me a little sad.

:ohno:

Well, it's the classic TU% argument. Because the Barcode's got so tall and dense (well, "tall"), the rest of Bjørvika has to suffer. I'm the sadest about the area around Bispevika. It could've been a chance to create a real city-meets-sea area, with a real city growing out of the sea. Instead, we have to make a "soft transition" with buildings as low as 2-3 floors closest to the water. Shoot me now! Do people think the water or fjord would disappear?

and even more sad, is hearing some of the people in my area debatting Bjørvika, knowing nothing about city development, and praising lawns.

Good work Þróndeimr!

I think some of the reason they build low has to do with a combination of "Ekeberg should be visible" as well as the argument that they should block as little as possible of the view of the fjord from people with views further back in the city.

Not that I agree (fully) with this, but I suspect it's a combination of these two reasons behind it.

I do agree somewhat that Ekeberg should remain visible though. But that doesn't mean I want as low buildings (and not least, uniform heights :ohno:) as the current plans.

I actually agree with the low height of Sørenga, but I would prefer if they had planed more density in form of proper quarters rather than the suburbia light they are planing.
:)

The view is aubviously already obstructed by the first row of buildings, so it wouldn't matter if the second row where of the same height - the argument used for having lower building in front is to create a landscape of buildings where the city gradually rises up from the waterfront :ohno:

As for Sørenga, best would be to follow Tjuvholmens example - irregular streets and absolutly under no circumstances allow architects to communicate with eachother so shapes, height and facades would be purely random.

http://www.aftenposten.no/kul_und/article4045789.ece

Holme continuing on the war path - battling ... sort of everything.

Also; a nice drawing of wasteland imagined by architect Ole Krogness;

http://media.aftenposten.no/archive/01441/Adobe_Photoshop_PD_1441184x.jpg

^^Looks nice in a render. I even can see people swimming! However, I can never imagine anyone wanting to dip their body in this part of Oslofjorden :lol:

In the article it seems like Holme is defending the "Kongsbakken-almenningen" as a compensation for the Munch Museum. However, he does everything in his power to fight the Munch Museum. Well, he already got more than he asked for, why doesn`t he cool down a bit?

[QUOTE=Olabil;73536225]^^Looks nice in a render. I even can see people swimming! However, I can never imagine anyone wanting to dip their body in this part of Oslofjorden :lol:
QUOTE]

The bay is being cleaned and will probably be adequate in a few years. Considering how many people who use the uncirculated pool in the middelalder-park, I would expect plenty of people to take a dive in bispevika as soon as there are some piers available.

Yeez, now he's battleing his own proposal?

I seriously hope MD sees how delusional and biased Riksantikvaren is in this matter. I wondered how he would've reacted if the project was anywhere else than in Oslo?:ohno:
Go MD, and let us hope they drag it out to after the next ellections, then we'll be certain it gets approved!

:ohno: All these opinions from riksantivaren. Holme can't get everything he want, there are more interest than just "kulturminner" when it comes to developing a city.

And he seem to ignore the fact that todays culture are tomorrows culture memories. Things haven't always been old. If Holme had excited hundred years ago and got his way, we wouldn't have had any city hall or havnelager. If he where eight hundred years ago then wouldn't have had a fortress either. Twenty years ago and we would have been without Oslo Plaza too. What would Oslo have been without these?

Considering how many people who use the uncirculated pool in the middelalder-park, I would expect plenty of people to take a dive in bispevika as soon as there are some piers available.

Are there people bathing in middelalderparken? In spite of huge signs saying it's unhealthy? :)

Are there people bathing in middelalderparken? In spite of huge signs saying it's unhealthy? :)

Oh yes. The numbers have probably declined a bit compared to when it was new and most people are just wading, but the pond is definitely used for cooling people off on warm days.

http://krogsveen.no/pict/33597690/33597690_large.jpg

God on a stick, what a self indulgent wanker that Jørn Holme is. It's not as if they're going to actually destroy anything old here, so he has to expand the definition of his office' field to include "environments". More and more he is turning Riksantikvaren from an office of expertise into a lobby.

Apparently, the bathing water will be quite nice when the big beach is done. Can't wait to the day I'll take a swim with my kids at the Bjørvika family beach, viewing the Oslo skyline in the horizon, and knowing it's only a few hundres meters back home :)

Regarding Munch: To be quite honest, the more the process keeps on moving, the less I care if the building is realized. Can't really see any big qualities with this builing, and the location isn't the best for a high rise. Why not extend it and place it a few hundred meters back, giving Grønland a prime tourist spot. Or just rebuild the Tøyen area. Would propably give some needed energy to the area.

Munch tilbake til start (http://www.aftenposten.no/kul_und/article4046888.ece)
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af172/mjoks007/_G-Tittel-mkul1teg_1441830x.jpg

To expensive to put it in B4? Not if the area missed by Osu is gained in other locations of Bjørvika, the whole area needs more density, that's for sure!

Are you interested in what all the tens of thousands bureaucrats in Oslo do every day? Are you intrigued by how different a number of people can look at a single document? Are you in love with the written text as a concept? Are you bored?

Then I have a way to waste your time. 141 pages of pure gold is the result of two months of public hearing on this project. Take a look. I dare you!

http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/showfile.asp?fileid=3030888



edit: Seriously though:lol:, I'll put this summary up for you not knowing what the process will be in the future with this project. Most likely, if the municipality is up to it, the project will go to the Ministry of Environment for final decission. This is lengthy, if you hadn't guessed, MD usually take at least 6 months.

Plan- og bygningsetaten har per 1.3.2011 mottatt 45 innkomne uttalelser, inkludert en statlig innsigelse, til planforslag for Munch- og Deichmanområdet. Forslaget lå ute til offentlig ettersyn i perioden 17.1-28.2.2011. Bemerkningene skal nå refereres og kommenteres av forslagsstiller, HAV Eiendom AS.

Riksantikvaren har reist innsigelse mot alle tre foreliggende alternativer for nytt Munch-museum. Det betyr at saken innen kort tid vil bli gjenstand for mekling hos Fylkesmannen. Hvis saken ikke blir løst gjennom mekling ved at innsigelsen trekkes, vil saken ved et eventuelt vedtak fattet av bystyret oversendes Miljøverndepartementet for endelig avgjørelse.

Plan- og bygningsetaten har i denne sammenheng bedt HAV Eiendom AS om spesielt å kommentere Riksantikvarens innsigelser til planforslagene.

If I understands your summary correctly, then Riksantikvaren are against both the first, second and the third winner in the competition held for Munch Museum? What a positive guy.
:nuts:

If I understands your summary correctly, then Riksantikvaren are against both the first, second and the third winner in the competition held for Munch Museum? What a positive guy.
:nuts:

No, just the three alternatives as stated in the plan. (1) Original lambda, (2) reworked lambda by PBE, and (3) reworked lambda by Riksantikvaren (yeah, that's the crazy part!:nuts:).

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=305040510358 ;)

and (3) reworked lambda by Riksantikvaren (yeah, that's the crazy part!:nuts:).
:rofl:
I think he need to find himself a hobby.

Vil bygge 14 etasjer foran Barcode (http://www.aftenposten.no/bolig/article4055223.ece)
Riksantikvaren vil flytte Munch-museet. Arbeiderpartiet flagger akvarieplaner i Bjørvika igjen. Og plutselig diskuteres boligblokker på opptil 14 etasjer, nesten like høyt som Barcode-byggene, i området sør for Operaen.

^^Not exactly comming as a "surprise" when it's been in the plans since they were published 2 years ago. Actually, they were initially proposed even taller.


–Det var ikke de forutsetningene vi hadde da vi flyttet inn. Dessuten vil slike blokker gi mørke gaterom og komme i konflikt med området rundt, sier Skare.

Here he is actually lying. I've personally overheared the sales agents of OSU, and they've been pretty clear that the regulations of B4 and the neighboring plots are subject to changes at a later time. The plans for B4 were also public information when he bought his appartment, since they weren't out for sales before later that year.

A revised plan for this area is heading for political decission. Summary by PBE:

Etaten anbefaler Deichman og redusert Lamda


Plan- og bygningsetaten støtter utbyggingen av de to kulturbyggene, samt bolig- og næringsbebyggelsen i karréform. Etaten anbefaler alternativ 2 for Munch-museet, det vil si med 15 meters kutt i lamellens lengde i forhold til forslagsstillers alternativ (alternativ 1).

Etaten opprettholder Lambda ytterst på Paulsenkaia. Plan- og bygningsetaten anbefaler større gårdsrom og lavere byggehøyder for studentboligene for å bedre prosjektets miljøkvaliteter. I tillegg til studentboligene kommer 340 boliger i skjermede gårdsrom med barnehage. Følg saken på Saksinnsyn, saksnummer 200911541.

The updated reg.plan, per April 14th: http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/showfile.asp?fileid=3091993

Looks as we won with our Carre-argumentation!:cheers:

Bye bye, fugly lamellblokker in B1 and B4!!
:dance:

What's the point in keeping Lamda if it have to been altered to fit the criteria?

^ It's a better looking λ, since it will not be so fat!

^^Sure, but would it not be better idea to actually choose a proposal we like in the first instance? I think we either should go with how the architect originally visioned his proposal or we should choose some of the others.
:)

^^Some alterations to a competition entry is always expected. IMO it's far more scandalous that they will go with a project with far less sqm of exibition area than originally planed. Will there be room for Stenersens samlingene at all? Or should they just continue using the awful building in Vika instead?

^^Making it thinner, lower and other change of exterior dimensions are more than I would expect. Especially on such a simple design. You are basically altering the whole appearance of the proposal. It seems to me that they don't like the proposal and are therefore trying to bend it into something they could live with.

I'm glad to see they went with carré. A bunch of boring lamell-blocks right here in the heart of the city would be just hopeless.

I'm also glad to see that they will be focusing more on recreation on the tip of Bjølrvikautstikkeren. As far as I can read all commercial functions have been taken out of the A11 and A36. It looked a bit dead in some of the renders, it would be nice with a park or some greenery.

Did they forget to add those squaremeters to the podium as originally planned? Only 2 floors look quite stupid for such a wide building/podium anyhow.

Edit:moved this post to the fjordcity thread

Digging trough some old stuff here - Mdp decission back in 2004 regarding sight-lines from Middelalderparken:
http://www.regjeringen.no/nb/dep/md/tema/planlegging_plan-_og_bygningsloven/kommuneplanlegging/innsigelsessaker/2004/oslo-kommune-reguleringsplan-for-bjorvik.html?id=447913

Breaking news: Kompromiss i Bjørvika (http://www.nrk.no/kultur-og-underholdning/1.7628890)

Riksantikvar Jørn Holme og byrådsleder Stian Berger Røsland har inngått kompromiss i Bjørvika. Munch-museet blir bygget som planlagt, men åpningen mot fjorden blir dobbelt så bred.
:ohno:

^^I didn't understand a word of that article. Which highrises won't be built? The ones in B1?

ah, orignal sources: http://www.oslo.kommune.no/getfile.php/Byr%C3%A5det%20%28BYR%29/Internett%20%28BYR%29/Dokumenter/Pressemeldinger/110511%20vedlegg%20pm%20-%20avtalen%20mellom%20RA%20og%20BYR.pdf

Seems the museum will be built in full width in spite of PBE's recommandations. Wonderful!

I'm thinking this is a big victory for the city councile, and they're probably in exctasy over the fact that this will be decided on a long time before the elections this fall. Eitherway, nice:)

Really good!
Also good to know that Holme won`t waste any more tax money fighting this case :)

Welcome to Oslo where preserving historic buildings is about stopping new developments. It's probably easier to get Middelalderparken demolished rather than to build something next to it that "disturb the historic surroundings". Like I've said before: It is ironic how we have all these people working at protecting our heritage (everyone from Byens Fornyelse, Stifetelsen for Oslo byes vel, Fortidsminneforeningen, Byantikvaren and Riksantikvaren) yet we haven't been able to keep a shit. We have managed to reduce a few highrises though.

I'm not a huge fan of Lambda, though it is growing on me. What I don't like is constant rematches when something is decided. I tsake this as a victory. The big open pointless windy space "Holmeparken" we can always fill in later when Holme no longer has a saying,.

I didn't dare to think we would get any sensible agreement with RA. Will be very excited if this can pass trough city council :banana:

I didn't dare to think we would get any sensible agreement with RA. Will be very excited if this can pass trough city council :banana:

From Aftenposten
– Flertall
Avtalen innebærer at byrådet fremmer en ny reguleringsplan for Kongsbakken, med en dobling av parkområdet. Saken går nå videre til politisk behandling.

– Jeg har ført samtaler med partigruppene til Høyre, Fremskrittspartiet og Venstre om punktene i avtalen og legger til grunn at det vil være flertall i Oslo bystyre for at avtalen blir realisert, sier Røsland.

A little reminder what all the fuss was about

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/164/164977/16497719/jpg/active/978x.jpg

I thought it would be some proper channels linked the Medieval park with the fjord?

That would be bispekilen, i'm quite looking forward to the beach there in kongsbakken- so i'm not going to cry if this park get's wider. I can't wrap my head around how "easy" it was to get this highrise approved after all that fuzz we went trough with barcode. Maybe there will actually be highrises both at Oslo S and brevsenteret in the future aswell then!

I have to say that I think it will look ok with a bigger park there but I am principal against the decision. Rikantikvaren should focus on preserving our heritage. He now function as a another PBE.

A little reminder what all the fuss was about

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/164/164977/16497719/jpg/active/480x.jpg

Is this the new or the original width of Kongsbakken?
(Never mind. I found the Dagbladet article. It is the new width)

I thought it would be some proper channels linked the Medieval park with the fjord?

That would be Bispekilen, but it won't be connected to the medieval park.

map (http://www.prosjekt-fjordbyen.oslo.kommune.no/getfile.php/fjordbykontoret%20%28FJORDBYEN%29/Internett%20%28FJORDBYEN%29/Dokumenter/dokument/Havnepromenader%20og%20allmenninger_aug2009.pdf)

Bispekilen
http://www.prosjekt-fjordbyen.oslo.kommune.no/getfile.php/fjordbykontoret%20%28FJORDBYEN%29/Internett%20%28FJORDBYEN%29/Bilder/bispekilen-2.jpg

Here are some pictures of the Woermann Tower in Las Palmas from the same architect. You know the building many have said our Lambda is a copy of. It looks nice enough with high quality although I don't think the building scream "museum", but I still will be happy with a similar result. I have some concern about the lack of color of ours compare to this though.
http://www.mimoa.eu/images/7819_l.jpg

http://www.mimoa.eu/images/7820_l.jpg

http://www.mimoa.eu/images/7821_l.jpg

http://www.plataformaarquitectura.cl/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/151948278_tw_ext_det_07.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-JxEuU8snQjI/TZA0OH3ZSxI/AAAAAAAABuc/7SV-RewmO0U/s1600/Plaza+y+Torre+Woermann%252C+Las+Palmas+de+Gran+Canaria+%253A+A%25CC%2581balos+%2526+Herreros%252C+Casariego+%25E2%2580%2593+Guerra+012b.jpg

Finally this is decided!

But there will be a big gap between Sørenga and the rest of Bjørvika. No way we gonna fill that space with people and life.

While I didn't care much for Lambda in the beginning, the building has really started to grow on me. I'm really glad it's going to be realised in accordance with the architect's original vision.

The enlarged Kongsbakken opening, on the other hand.. Well, at least the drug addicts and dealers might find a new home that isn't located right next to the central station...

A model of the building. The lamell things on the side of it are now (thankfully) gone.
http://www.architecture-buzz.com/wp-content/gallery/munchmuseum/ha_mm_maq_flopez_05-lt.jpg

BTW: I think we should just drop the further developments at Loenga and just plant a forest there. The surrounding road network, the train tracks and the new ventilation system to the underground tunnel secures that this will never ever be a proper part of the city.

So did this reduce the total number of m^2 to be built? If so it's not a victory. At all. :( Nothing to do with my mediocre interest in Lambda.

A model of the building. The lamell things on the side of it are now (thankfully) gone.
http://www.architecture-buzz.com/wp-content/gallery/munchmuseum/ha_mm_maq_flopez_05-lt.jpg


Someone has stolen quarter D5. Maybe it's Jørn Holme?

We're looking at an urban space as wide as Studenterlunden here - not a big problem, it's just a park people, parts of it will serve as school-yard even!

The most interesting thing about the Lambda will be the facades, i think it will be quite simular to the Anterwerpen Aan de Stroom museum - only the waves are horizontal and there will be different amplitudes...
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww67/meurisse/35%20Wervenroute%2012%20april%202010/IMG_6319.jpg

Will we see construction start this year?

While it's great that Lambda got saved, I think that on the whole this is a bad solution for Bjørvika. Bjørvika will be more dead now than it would have been if Lambda was a little smaller, and to me at least that's what matters the most.

Really this whole debate has been the most ridiculous thing ever. It seems like Riksantikvaren cares more about defending his position and not seeming "weak" than about what's really best for the city. This compromise is the only way he could back down without "loosing". Of course this is something that happens often in politics, but it just shows how negative politics can be for urban planning.

Seriously, Riksantikvaren should have getting the train tracks out of the medieval park and to restore the ladegårdens former gardens as his prime cases. But instead he only focus at stopping new developments, things he shouldn't have any power of (but he sadly does).

I do wonder if this new park will get threes in it? That make or it break as fare as I'm concerned. With threes it's fine but then again you still won't be able to see the fortress from the medieval park. I think it will feels very hostile without threes though. Look at Wessels Plass besides Stortinget.

Have these been shown before? They are visualizations made by Riksantikvaren (probably as propaganda against the building.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2599/4191790725_f1f1737684_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/riksantikvaren/4191790725/)
Bjørvika. Revierkaia (http://www.flickr.com/photos/riksantikvaren/4191790725/) by Riksantikvaren (http://www.flickr.com/people/riksantikvaren/), on Flickr

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4046/4192552398_4df0e4e542_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/riksantikvaren/4192552398/)
Bjørvika. Operaen (http://www.flickr.com/photos/riksantikvaren/4192552398/) by Riksantikvaren (http://www.flickr.com/people/riksantikvaren/), on Flickr

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2618/4191790759_88c0eae5c8_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/riksantikvaren/4191790759/)
Bjørvika. Ekebergrestauranten (http://www.flickr.com/photos/riksantikvaren/4191790759/) by Riksantikvaren (http://www.flickr.com/people/riksantikvaren/), on Flickr

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2605/4191787895_e3e6bd2e02_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/riksantikvaren/4191787895/)
Bjørvika. Middelalderparken (http://www.flickr.com/photos/riksantikvaren/4191787895/) by Riksantikvaren (http://www.flickr.com/people/riksantikvaren/), on Flickr

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4003/4192536162_443121a790_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/riksantikvaren/4192536162/)
Bjørvika. Ladegården (http://www.flickr.com/photos/riksantikvaren/4192536162/) by Riksantikvaren (http://www.flickr.com/people/riksantikvaren/), on Flickr

I'm actually starting to like it more and more. It just seem proper with one slope of the opera leading to the Barcode developments and the other slope leading to this. I also think we will get a great panorama from our islands with theo city hall, the fortress in the middle and this building in Bjørvika of almost equal height as the city hall.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2618/4191790759_88c0eae5c8_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/riksantikvaren/4191790759/)
Bjørvika. Ekebergrestauranten (http://www.flickr.com/photos/riksantikvaren/4191790759/) by Riksantikvaren (http://www.flickr.com/people/riksantikvaren/), on Flickr

I just can't get over the fact that they wan't to create a park around the concrete vent tower!:bash::bash: Are they making it a monument?!


And would people please stop using Flickr? All they're links and shit is starting to annoy me:)

I have to say I agree about the vent towers. Why not just integrate them into a pair of apartment buildings?

Without knowing anything about it all, I would guess there is some stupid rule forbids building anything in a certain distance from the towers.

The open area of the tunnel is there for fire security and this limits the option of intergrate them into a building. I don't think there are any other rules forbiding it though. The Ibsen Quarter already have ventilation towers intergrated in them.
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm202/joopi_bucket/ibsenkvartalet.png

Probably been added a couple of hundreds EU directives since thats was built though :nuts:

Yes, that is possible. I think PBE wants building surrounding the hole though, but I don't know if they have talked with SV about it.

I just can't get over the fact that they wan't to create a park around the concrete vent tower!:bash::bash: Are they making it a monument?!


And would people please stop using Flickr? All they're links and shit is starting to annoy me:)

not to mention the four lane carriageway splitting it down the middle.

But i guess this is ok, as long as we can see akershusfestning through the car fumes...

:nuts:

Apparently the facade material will be perforated aluminum plates instead of glass:

http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/showfile.asp?fileid=3125790

could you get the vedlegg as well:)

How can aluminum be transparent, or have I missed something?

Perforated aluminium means it's holes in the aluminium, which will make the facade kind of transparent.

Perforated aluminium means it's holes in the aluminium, which will make the facade kind of transparent.

could work, if they get the proportions of hole/aluminium right.

Some renderings with the new facade:

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l608/ingenioren4/DSC_0353-1.jpg

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l608/ingenioren4/DSC_0350-2.jpg

^^ I like it. I think that cladding fits the building better, makes it more interesting and special in comparison to its surroundings - but on the other hand, it gets even more similar to the Woermann Tower. Personally I can't say I care too much about that.

Think it looks pretty cool in that last picture. Especially with the background (can't wait till Isfjellet is complete).

I think it looks good too. Will there be a viewing platform on the roof? Looks kinda like that in the last render.

Except not for the public..

^^ That sucks!

Not for the public? Only the staff? That sucks indeed. We'll take the gondola instead though.

Yes, only the gondola building will have a public rooftop. +Skybar in Munch.

So the gondola will be part of the Munch Museum developments? Don't know if I am the only one, but I feel it then would be more natural to have one tread dedicated to Munch and Ekeberg Sculpture park and rather merge the rest of the stuff from this tread into the fjorcity tread. Thoughts?

^^ why merge this thread to the fjordcity thread when this thread is one of the most active threads around?

But don't most of that activity come from the munch museum? I think the museums is a completely different project than the commercial quarters around the opera, and it is also big and important enough to deserves it's own tread.

Well, the quarters behind Munch was part of the competition, which Yimby made a statement about.

Not all of them, and this tread covers them all + the new culture museum (or something) and the new library.

^^ read the first post in the thread. Everything in this thread is the same project, Hav Eiendoms "Operaens Omgivelser", a masterplan for this site, first a competition for the entire area, then competitions for the single projects (Munch Museum, Deichman Library, and last the B1 to B4 plots.

Originally this thread was all about the Munch Museum, but as this thread fell dead, and the Big Fjordcity thread had way too much activity i made this thread cover all of Operaens Omgivelser, since this is a very important project.

^^ Well, the name of the tread mentioned two projects and I believe we have discussed the deign/planing of the quarters closest to Middelalderparken here too. My stance is simply that I would like to have a clean project tread where we can appreciate the developments through time now that we know the Museum will get built, while the current tread feels more like we have stashed all the projects we didn't find place for elsewhere.
:)

now that we know the Museum will get built

Actually we don't know that yet. AP will try to stop it after the election..

Galro: The gondola-stop in Bjørvika is part of the Operaens omgivelser regulation plan. I don't think it belongs more in either fjordcity or Oslo development, but since most new stuff is covered here, I suopprt keeping it here.

Actually we don't know that yet. AP will try to stop it after the election..

Lol, with that Rieber-Mohn-chick who basicly could've been recruted directly from central-FRP?! Ap will be even more marginilized after September. Turning an election for the whole city with responsobility for schools, elderly care and transportation into a debate about a freaking museum is a big :ohno:, and I think they will lose voters on it.

Until we make an elections debate or anything, this is as far as I'll go into politics here on SSC, but I don't think the museum is in danger honestly.

Galro: The gondola-stop in Bjørvika is part of the Operaens omgivelser regulation plan. I don't think it belongs more in either fjordcity or Oslo development, but since most new stuff is covered here, I suopprt keeping it here.
.
Actually, if you see back through my posts on this page then you will see that I advocated moving the gondola project from other treads into this one, as I don't think it is covered here. And if it is covered here then it deserves a own overview post on the first page.

I also said that I would prefer to split up the tread into one covering Munch+gondola and covering Deichman + the rest, but I'm seem to be the only of this opinion so I guess it's better to keep that way it is now.
:)

but I don't think the museum is in danger honestly.

I hope you're right about that. (http://www.nrk.no/nett-tv/indeks/263395/)

Do anyone know what they will do with Sukkerbiten/Snelda? I've tried searching for some info with no luck so far. Will there be built anything there? And if yes, what?

The politicians haven't decided yet, and won't do until August.

Ok, but Hav eiendom (they are the owners, right?) haven't mentioned anything?`Would be great with something along the lines of Bølgen at Aker Brygge there.
:)

I don' think we have seen this render before:
http://v5.cache1.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/53969563.jpg?redirect_counter=2

From Mir: http://mir.no/

I don't think we have either, and it's absolutely beautiful.

I'm glad they kept the Much Museum, it's absolutely necessary to make a nice skyline.

Yes, I have actually started to like it. I think it will turn out nice now that we are rid of the lamells. I'm also looking forward to see if and what gets built at Sukkerbiten.

... And we need more highrises/scrapers at Vaterland. It looks awkward with the big "hole" between Barcode and Postgiro/Plaza in the skyline.
:)

I think Krystallklar is the closest we'll get to fill that hole in the nearest future. Even that one is pretty unsure though. And the ones at Oslo S will stretch the skyline a little more to the west.

I think we will start to see more and more highrise proposals though unless we are getting a sudden stop in the demand for housing/offices. I also think the future of Galleri Oslo lies in a thin tread even though City had said it is "saved for now". I really can't see a cheap, long, low density buildings like that lasting long when the rest of the area gets densified/renovated. I think wi will see a scraper proposal here (next to plaza) in a few years.

I don' think we have seen this render before:
http://v5.cache1.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/53969563.jpg?redirect_counter=2

From Mir: http://mir.no/

It sure looks nice, but there's nothing distinctively unique about it. The sad thing about Bjørvika is that, except the Opera, the project lacks the iconic features that could define the identity of Oslo.

In the competitions for the Munch Museum and the Deichman Library (and for the National Museum as well, for that sake), there were proposals with real potential, but alas, the juries opted for the most conservative, boring and low-key proposals.

When it comes to monumental architecture, Oslo seems to be the city that never wastes an opportunity to waste an opportunity! :mad2:

^^ I think it looks fairly good, but I can agree with you that we more or less suck when it comes to building monumental and more visionary (buildings and also somewhat, planning areas).

Looking at the whole of Bjørvika since it all began, it seems clear that it started out good and many also were both positive and thinking "big" but NIMBYism during the planning turned everything except the opera into less visionary projects.

(I guess, when trying to look at it all impartially)

When it comes to monumental architecture, Oslo seems to be the city that never wastes an opportunity to waste an opportunity! :mad2:
That's because everyone in the city bitch and whine whenever someone decide to build a unique building. The only thing that manage to get approved without huge protests are commie blocks and Thon architecture ...

The problem is that the architecture of the Opera is so fragile. It will lose a lot of value if it's put up against other "dominating" structures, such as a monumental or awe-inspiring library or museum.
Authorities and forståsegpåere agrees that this is so obvious, we don't even need empiria to support it.
Riksantikvaren has luckily come to the rescue, and the opera is now protected. So if anyone thought it would be wise to tear it down just after investing billions in it, it's too late for that.:nuts:

Oh, I was going to defend Bjørvika... Well, hopefully we'll see some interesting designs and architecture in the remaining city blocks. This is the new westside, and a new CBD/downtown. I think privates will pay a lot for nice architecture, so it won't look as bland as in the before shown render.

Didn't he also "save" Folketheaterbygningen from the proposed yellow extension of Torggata 13? God he is such a party pooper.

We will see, i think Barcode turned out a lot better than what i expected when i saw those generic drawings many years ago :) Sørenga turned out to be the exact opposite....

Didn't he also "save" Folketheaterbygningen from the proposed yellow extension of Torggata 13? God he is such a party pooper.

Well, that was byantikvaren.

Using folketeaterbygningen as a reason for protection is pretty silly, but then again so is proposing to tear down nice old historical architecture and replace it with a bland box to maximize profits.

You should take a trip down there, someone occupied it. You could argue that the house these kids have turned it into is way better for the city than a new office building with a bank in the first floor would ever be.

I'm pretty sure I've seen Riksantikvaren arguing in the papers that Folketheaterbygningen needs a save zone around it, but I may be confusing it with something else. I'm not a fan of demolishing historic buildings, but the proposal I thought of was to restore these three buildings and build two yellow glass boxes in the backyard. This is imho the thing Youngstorget needs as it both keep the historic surroundings while still managed to bring something new and exiting to the table. A big yes for me there.

About the squatters currently occuping the buildings: You may argue that the city are better of with those there, but I don't think we should allow it as they still use other peoples properties for these gains. It is basically stealing. Perhaps the city could offer them a place elsewhere?

This is really ot, but the buildings at Youngstorget is a disgrace. But the new plans for the plot wasn't stopped by Folketeateret, but rather that PBE felt it would be to dense and massive towards neighboring Politidirektoratet, as far as I remember.
Eitherway, it's a disgrace that a public property company such as Entra, which is owned by the people can allow buildings to stand empty and deteriorate like this for years. Don't they have any respect for the city they own buildings in? It borders on childish. Regulations allow for 6 floors in the backyard, if that's not enough for them to make money, they should sell it to someone who do see value in it.

I agree with you in that these three buildings should never have gotten in the state they are in today. The same could be said about many of the lower buildings along Storgata or Malthebygården currently disintegrating in Akersgaten. Many cities force the landlords to spend enough money on maintance to keep their property in a respectable state. I believe Toronto is one these cities. Why can't we do something similar here? We really have far too many historic buildings rotting away in the street scape.

That's because everyone in the city bitch and whine whenever someone decide to build a unique building. The only thing that manage to get approved without huge protests are commie blocks and Thon architecture ...

Thon owns Mono, they do have some use :D

Actually we don't know that yet. AP will try to stop it after the election..

I don't always like to be right, but we won't get the Munch Museum it seems.. (http://www.aftenposten.no/kul_und/article4147050.ece):bash:

Nytt Munch-museum kan ryke

Fremskrittspartiets bystyregruppe snur i Lambda-saken. Etter det Aftenposten erfarer er det dermed ikke lenger politisk flertall for et nytt Munch-museum i Bjørvika.

Med 36 mot 23 stemmer sørget Høyre, Fremskrittspartiet, Venstre og SV for at Oslo bystyre i august 2009 vedtok at Munch-museet (Lambda) skulle bygges i Bjørvika. Selv om SV senere har endret standpunkt til å heller gå for Tøyen-alternativet, har det fortsatt vært politisk flertall for Bjørvika i bystyret.
Etter det Aftenposten erfarer har Frp. nå ombestemt seg. Rett før pinse skal det ha vært harde forhandlinger internt i partiet, som skal ha endt med at Fremskrittspartiet ikke lenger vil opprettholde avtalen de inngikk med Høyre og Venstre for fire år siden. Oslo Frp. skal etter det Aftenposten kjenner til, mene at utbyggingen, slik den er planlagt, ikke vil være i samsvar med avtalen de inngikk med Høyre. En av årsakene til at Frp. nå har valgt å snu, skal være at prosjektet er blitt mer kostbart enn først planlagt.

Brytes
Dermed er det ikke lenger politisk flertall for Bjørvika-alternativet.
- Vi har aldri gått fra noen avtale, er det noen som har brutt noen avtale så er det i så fall Høyre. Vi forholder oss til den avtalen vi inngikk for fire år siden, men i ettertid har det vært endringer i prosjektet som har fordyret prosjektet, sier Christian Tybring-Gjedde, leder i Oslo Frp. Han henviser oss til samferdelsbyråd Jøran Kallmyr og næringsbyråd Øystein Sjøtveit for ytterligere kommentarer.

Valget
Så sent som i mars i år uttalte Fremskrittspartiets gruppeleder i Oslo bystyre, Svenn E. Kristiansen at avtalen partiet inngikk sammen med Høyre for fire år siden, om hvordan utbyggingen i Bjørvika skal foregå, fortsatt skulle bestå også frem til høstens kommunevalg.
– Vi stemte for Lambda og det gjelder fortsatt i denne perioden, sa Kristiansen.
Den samme Kristiansen ønsket ikke å kommentere dette overfor Aftenposten i dag.
- Dette er noe jeg må diskutere med bystyregruppen min i dag, sier Kristiansen.

Skrinlegges
Når Fremskrittspartiet nå likevel ikke vil støtte byggingen av et nytt Munchmuseum i Bjørvika, så betyr det i beste fall en kraftig utsettelse. I verste fall kan hele museumsbyggingen bli lagt på is.
- Hvis dette stemmer vil utviklingen enda en gang stoppe helt opp. Tøyen er per i dag ikke noe alternativ, der pågår det ingen prosess. Enten så fullfører vi byggingen som er vedtatt i Bjørvika, eller så blir det ikke noe av. Det er ikke bare å hoppe over til et annet alternativ sånn helt uten videre. Dette er en lang prosess, med alle de skjær i sjøen som finnes underveis, sier Ola Elvestuen (V), leder av byutviklingskomiteen i Oslo kommune.

Valgflesk
- Det virker som dette er et valgkamputspill – og jeg savner litt klokskap og langsiktighet i denne saken. Jeg synes det er synd at Fr.p, hvis dette medfører riktighet, bruker muligheten til å få denne saken igang igjen på nytt, sier Kjersti Nerseth, president i Norske Arkitekters Landsforbund.
Hun viser til at det er politisk besluttet at Munch-museet skal flytte til Bjørvika, og synes det er synd hvis en lokaliseringsdebatt nå skal bringes på banen på nytt.
– Hvor lang tid vil det eventuelt ta før vi får et nytt Munch-museet, dersom flertallet går for Tøyen?
– I byplanlegging legges sten på sten. Det har vært en lang og demokratisk prosess, hvor selvfølgelig mange har sett et resultat som ikke er slik de ønsker. Og sånn er det alltid i demokratiske proseser. Men nå åpner man for at alle som tapte i forrige runde, kan begynne på nytt igjen. Da ser det ut som om løpet er kjørt for Munch-Stenerssen-museum det kommende tiår.

Årevis
– Så det kan ta ti år å få et museum på plass et annet sted?
–Ja, først må man ha en lokalisering, så arkitektkonkruranse som skal gjennom flere omganger og man skal bli enige om hvordan bygningen skal plasseres og se ut. Dette skal forankres på veldig mange nivåer. Og jeg ser at hvis man nå rykker tilbake til lokalisering, da har man et langt løp foran seg.
–Hva vil det bety for Norges renommé?
–Det er synd at vi fremviser en sånn kortsiktighet. Lær av politikerne i Drammen, de har klart å sette langsiktige mål og fulgt den planen man har lagt på tvers av partipolitiske og populistiske motiver. Og det er det som skal til hvis man skal få en byplanlegging som gavner byen, sier Nerseth.

For dyrt
I dag ble reguleringsplanen for Bjørvika presentert, denne skal behandles i byutviklingskomiteen 17. august, og i Oslo bystyre i slutten av august.
Når Fremskrittspartiet ikke vil gå videre med planenen, er det mye som tyder på at kostnadene vil fortsette å trille ut lenge før et nytt museum eventuelt vil kunne stå ferdig. Før det er tatt et eneste spadetak på museumstomten på Paulsenkaia i Bjørvika, har Munch-prosjektet så langt kostet over 70 millioner kroner. I tillegg ble tomten kjøpt for 165 millioner kroner.

Arkitekter
Bare det å avvikle selve arkitektkonkurransen i 2008/2009, kostet totalt 11,3 millioner kroner:
De 20 arkitektfirmaene som deltok fra inn- og utland, fikk 400 000 kroner hver for å lage modeller, totalt 600 000 kroner.
To millioner kroner ble gitt i premie, fordelt på de tre vinnerne som gikk videre. De tre arkitektkontorene i siste fase fikk 250 000 kroner hver for arbeidet med siste konkurransefase, totalt 750 000 kroner.

Erstatning
I tillegg kommer selve prosjekteringsarbeidet som er utført av en rekke mennesker gjennom nærmere halvannet år. Det dreier seg om prosjektleder Advansia AS, firmaer de har knyttet til seg, og arkitektene Juan Herreros og de norske samarbeidspartnerne LPO arkitekter.

http://www.aftenposten.no/kul_und/article4147050.ece

Seriously, can we please stop we this getting back and forth thing? It starting to become quite tiresome not to mention very expensive.

Enighet i byrådet om Lambda (http://www.aftenposten.no/kul_und/article4147607.ece)

Typical Frp :)

"Rieber-Mohn reagerer på at en så stor og viktig sak trumfes i all hast gjennom for bystyrebehandling."

Stor komedie! Rieber Mohn går langt i å antyde maktmisbruk fra et flertallsbyråd, som representant for et parti i en flertallsregjering. Snakk om svingdør!

"Rieber-Mohn reagerer på at en så stor og viktig sak trumfes i all hast gjennom for bystyrebehandling."

Stor komedie! Rieber Mohn går langt i å antyde maktmisbruk fra et flertallsbyråd, som representant for et parti i en flertallsregjering. Snakk om svingdør!

Slik kan det gå når et parti er vant til å få viljen sin i alle sammenhenger. De glemmer at det faktisk er et demokrati.. :ohno:

Avgjørende for støtten var en kostnadsgaranti fra Høyre om sluttsummen for utbyggingen av de to byggene med Munch-museet og Deichmanske bibliotek i Bjørvika.

Partiene er enige om at kostnadene ikke kan overstige 2,695 millarder kroner. Det er ikke aktuelt å bevilge en krone mer, bekrefter gruppleder Svenn Kristiansen i Fremskrittspartiet i Oslo.

These buildings better be nice for that price..

Honestly not that bad, especially when you consider that they somehow managed to use 1,100 milliarder kroner on this building:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1045177

... Or that they are going to use more than 4,000 milliarder on this:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=78884486&postcount=2

EDIT: Perhaps you are confused by how we write the numbers in Norwegian? We use comma where you use full stop and vica versa.

Oh but why 3 decimals? Not like those numbers are even slightly accurate...

The case has been delayed till after the elections, as wanted by SV and Ap. Both H and Frp supported their wishes, as is tradition in such cases. Venstre screams out, and calls it scandal stating that Frp has changed their mind.:lol:

http://www.aftenposten.no/kul_und/article4201860.ece

I have always voted for Høyre, and I will do so this year too. Regarding the Munch Museum, I beg to disagree with them, though!

Monumental buildings for key cultural institutions need to add something positive to the city, not only on a functional, but also on an aesthetical and architectural level.

In my opinion, the proposed Munch Museum thoroughly fails on the latter two accounts.

This is a matter of how we want our city to look, and the fact that a jury chose the design following a competition, doesn't matter if people think that it fails to make a positive contribution to Oslo. After all, it's our city, and our tax money!

Therefore: As much as I hope Fabian Stang remains our mayor, and that Stian Berger Røsland remains head of the City Government, I would also loudly applaud it if the election produces a city council where a majority is ready to vote down the proposed new Munch Museum!

So, 250 million kroner spent on developing this project and then it ends up cancelled. It is somewhat a scandal i'd say as many projects in development ends up in long political disagreements and expensive redesigns, usually ending up as a poorer building architecturally and structurally then the first proposal.

http://www.vg.no/rampelys/artikkel.php?artid=10089464

Since VG has a somewhat troubled relationship with facts, I thought I should cross-check if Frp's program says what they say it does. And it doesn't.:dunno:

http://www.frp.no/filestore/HovedprogramOsloFrP2011-2015_allesiderENDELIG.pdf

What have I misunderstood?

^^I don't know why you couldn't find "munch" or "bjørvika", but it says they support a move of the Munch-museum from Tøyen. But not much else related.

I can find no mention of either "Munch", "Lambda" or "Bjørvika" in their program. Perhaps they have written it in codes?

^^I don't know why you couldn't find "munch" or "bjørvika", but it says they support a move of the Munch-museum from Tøyen. But not much else related.

Well I didn't read through it, only searched. Apparently the search function didn't catch it then.:dunno:

Well I didn't read through it, only searched. Apparently the search function didn't catch it then.:dunno:

OT: I'm guessing you don't use Google Chrome as browser. If you use Internet Explorer, for instance, searching the page with edit>search won't work if you've loaded a PDF-document. You'll have to use the search bar within the PDF-viewer.

^^ I use Opera.

^^No experience, but it may be the same as with the IE.

Btw, you still haven't answered my question in the Kværner-thread.

Btw, you still haven't answered my question in the Kværner-thread.

Check again.
;)

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article4206395.ece
Varsler milliarderstatning i Bjørvika

Et nytt Munch-museum i Bjørvika kan koste Oslo kommune en milliard i erstatning, advarer utbygger. Frps ordførerkandidat Carl I. Hagen vil ikke være med på kostnadene.

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article4206395.ece
Varsler milliarderstatning i Bjørvika

Et nytt Munch-museum i Bjørvika kan koste Oslo kommune en milliard i erstatning, advarer utbygger. Frps ordførerkandidat Carl I. Hagen vil ikke være med på kostnadene.

And that, I believe, was the final nail in the coffin for Lambda! I am now ready to bet a nice bottle of wine that the proposed Munch Museum will never be built!

For Oslo, that's a good thing, as the building would not have been a positive contribution in the urban development. Functionally, I'm sure it's ok, but not aesthetically or architecturally. For that reason alone, it would have been wrong to spend that amount of tax money on it.

Even among Lambda's purported supporters in the City Council, I am sure that quite a few are relieved now, as the now have a valid excuse to abandon the project without loosing face.

Let's hope for a new round soon, where something positive comes up next to the Opera, whether it's the Munch Museum, an aquarium, or something completely different. Let's also hope the Munch Museum gets a fine new building without much further delay, whether it's next to the Opera, on Tøyen, or in a totally different location!

I have started to like the building. I also wished they had put up some polls with important decisions like this to secure that they did know what the public wanted and not only the ones who were loudest.

OSU vil ha erstatning (http://estatenyheter.no/component/content/article/1-nyhter/1535-osu-vil-ha-erstatning.html)
I assume the Kongsbakken compromise with Riksantikvaren disappear if the museum not getting built?

Let's hope for a new round soon, where something positive comes up next to the Opera, whether it's the Munch Museum, an aquarium, or something completely different. Let's also hope the Munch Museum gets a fine new building without much further delay, whether it's next to the Opera, on Tøyen, or in a totally different location!

And this is the BIG problem. Oslo need's a worldclass Munch museum on a central location. As a tourist attraction it would have a fantastic potential, important for Munch's art, important for Oslo, and important for Norway. The will to invest the same amount of money at Tøyen is just not there. I'm also afraid this is the last nail in the coffin, all because we have a fucked up Riksantikvar that has a view-fettish.. :ohno:

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article4206395.ece
Varsler milliarderstatning i Bjørvika

Et nytt Munch-museum i Bjørvika kan koste Oslo kommune en milliard i erstatning, advarer utbygger. Frps ordførerkandidat Carl I. Hagen vil ikke være med på kostnadene.

This is not something new. They will just have to make some ofthe other Bjørvika quarters taller. I have confidence, since so much is left of this project.

God, how much "Ramaskrik" in this thread. Let us just have a little bit patience till the final political decission has been made, shall we?:)

This is not something new. They will just have to make some ofthe other Bjørvika quarters taller. I have confidence, since so much is left of this project.

God, how much "Ramaskrik" in this thread. Let us just have a little bit patience till the final political decission has been made, shall we?:)

IMO, they are just looking for an excuse to drop Lambda on technical grounds, so that those of the project's initial proponents who have had second thoughts, can use this "new situation" to make a U-turn without loosing face.

The statement by OSU may very well be part of a plan to extend an olive branch to some of the politicians who support the project in public, but who privately think it stinks.

If the purported supporters of the project really want it, how comes that decision was conveniently postponed until after the election, while Ekebergåsen sailed through? The answer is probably simple: Ekebergåsen is a nice and popular project that will add value to the city. Lambda, on the other hand, is a potential disaster that would reduce the overall quality of the Bjørvika project, and that would be costly in terms of political capital for those who voted for it.

I believe that Lambda is as dead as a dinosaur. Let's give it a quiet burial, and move on.

If the purported supporters of the project really want it, how comes that decision was conveniently postponed until after the election, while Ekebergåsen sailed through? The answer is probably simple: Ekebergåsen is a nice and popular project that will add value to the city. Lambda, on the other hand, is a potential disaster that would reduce the overall quality of the Bjørvika project, and that would be costly in terms of political capital for those who voted for it.

I believe that Lambda is as dead as a dinosaur. Let's give it a quiet burial, and move on.

"Conveniently"? Truth is, it follows a pretty tight schedule independantly of elections or various media speculations. Truth is one can argue Ap's motives for postponing the final treatment, but in no way is it anything other than an ordinary custom of the administration to honor such demands, even if promoted by a minority. Too bad you don't know our democracy better, though.

So, I'm still awaiting September 28th, and let us please don't forget that this case is about so much more than that stupid museum.

@Mzungu

I realise I might be in a minority, so it seems from looking at mosts of the posts on the subject on this forum in any case, but is it so hard to conceive that some people might like the Lambda project on its own merit?

Maybe I get you wrong, but you seem to suggest that anybody who supports Lambda do it for reasons that have little or nothing to do with architecture.
Imho, Lambda is one of the best projects we have going in the fjordcity these days.

^^ I have started to really like the Lambda myself, like I said on the last page.

@Mzungu

I realise I might be in a minority, so it seems from looking at mosts of the posts on the subject on this forum in any case, but is it so hard to conceive that some people might like the Lambda project on its own merit?

Maybe I get you wrong, but you seem to suggest that anybody who supports Lambda do it for reasons that have little or nothing to do with architecture.
Imho, Lambda is one of the best projects we have going in the fjordcity these days.

That's not hard to conceive at all. Of course there are people who genuinely like Lambda too.

What I have noticed, though, is that many of the supporters are quite half-hearted. Most people who are for it, tend to say something like "I don't really like it, but it's the winner of the competition, and we need a new Munch Museum..". That includes politicians of the City Council, although they don't say so publicly.

Of course, there will always be massively divergent opinions about architecture, so it would be foolish to imagine that there aren't quite a few whole-hearted supporters as well. From what I've seen, they seem to be a minority though.

Personally, I don't think Lambda is a good project for Oslo at all. I would love to be proven wrong if it's ever built and becomes a success. I doubt it, though, so I really hope to see it abandoned, and replaced with something far better.

^^
fair enough

FrP says no to Lambda:
http://www.aftenposten.no/kul_und/article4218325.ece

Although I am generally no fan of FrP, and especially not of their cultural policies, I agree with them on this one: Lambda is simply not a good contribution to Bjørvika, and does not seem to have gained broad support.

Let's hope for a new competition soon, and a Munch museum that genuinely adds something positive to the Fjord city!

Let's hope for a new competition soon, and a Munch museum that genuinely adds something positive to the Fjord city!

Forget it. No to Lambda means no Munch museum in Bjørvika, and status quo at Tøyen for 15 years or more. It is a tragedy for the city imo.

You could also ask which idiot architects would participate in a competition in a city where the politicians change their mind from day to day and don't listen to the jury :ohno: It is insane I tell you!

-Lambda er en stor koloss, som ikke hører hjemme i Oslo og i hvert fall ikke i Bjørvika. Dessuten vil prosjektet innebære enorme kostnader, påpeker Tybring-Gjedde, som slår fast at prosjektet er «for stort, stygt og dyrt».

He know he's describing a 14-floorer surrounded by in the future at least 15 16-37 floorers?:) Well, well, we'll see. Frp will probably be marginalized in this elections eitherways, and this is a desperate meassure to gain some attention in the run up.