I can't believe how the Toronto transit threads have died over the last month.
Anyway, which lines have been approved, gotten money secured, and I guess more importantly when are they going to start construction?
Also what about the long-lost Spadina Ext?

I understoof Sheppard LRT got funding but there is no mention of it at the TC website?

TTC had a good summary of current state in their August 26th meeting:

http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2009/August_26_2009/Supplementary_Reports/Transit_City_Interim.pdf

They're expropriating properties along Sheppard and dealing with funding agreement details at the moment. Better updates will come in September.

Most of this month was spent discussing the "Transit City Bus Network" plans.

http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2009/August_26_2009/Reports/Transit_City_Bus_Pla.pdf

Can't believe no one has made a thread about the TC-BRT projects. Shame they seem to be not much better than what is currently operating on Finch East, cause if they had their own lane with frequent service and rapid boarding, they could make parking the car at home a far more attractive option (outside of downtown travel of course).

Toronto has a bad history with drivers totally ignoring HOV lanes. Chances are, you are not going to fair much better with bus lanes.
Taking away a lane on Finch East. Probably will not help either.

Don't know about downtown, but in North York they are fairly well respected. Not 100%, but they do move far better than the regular lanes during congested periods.

^^^ agreed.. i take the VIVA on a daily basis to Finch. The HOV lanes (on Yonge b/w Steeles and Finch) are pretty much used by those who are supposed to use them. Everyone else is crawling in the other 2 lanes. but i guess no one really wants to reach work early :D

Downtown, Bay Street's diamond lane is a free for all.

do these transit lines have a projected start date?

and

do they even have guarenteed funding?

do these transit lines have a projected start date?

and

do they even have guarenteed funding?
Sheppard: In service 2013 - Funded
Finch West (Humber College - Yonge): In service 2014/2015 - Funded
Finch East (Yonge/Finch - Don Mills/Sheppard): In service post-2016 (requires additional EA) - Funded
Eglinton: In service 2016 - Funded
SRT: Construction must start by 2015 or earlier - Funded

TRZ is it possible for LAwrence west/dixon to get a LRT????? possibly transit city 2?

TRZ is it possible for LAwrence west/dixon to get a LRT????? possibly transit city 2?

Based on current corridor ridership, it's the strongest ranking one not already part of Transit City after Dufferin and Finch East.

TRZ when would you expect TC 2 to possinly begin?

after TC 1 begins

TRZ when would you expect TC 2 to possinly begin?

After Sheppard and Finch are in service, we can start thinking seriously about TC2. Any TC2 project probably would not be entering service until post-2021 given the existing TC1 queue.

so if you are transit dependant you would not think of buying a house lawrence west/dixon near wilson golf club

so if you are transit dependant you would not think of buying a house lawrence west/dixon near wilson golf club

I think you mean the Weston Golf Club?

If the GO Service there is electric and runs all day every day (including weekend/holidays) and adds a ton of stops to the route, unlike what is proposed at the moment, then buying a house around Lawrence/Scarlett would be fine for the transit dependent, as something almost as good as a subway would be near by.

It would be great if they added 2 or 3 more stations including Dundas so the system from Pearson would be more like a subway/commuter hybrid but ONLY if the Pearson section of tyhe line was part of the regular TTC fare structure

Hm it'll be great for Rexdale to have the new plan to dip into the neighbourhood via Finch...sadly now I am living in a small town in Muskoka where there is not a building downtown over five stories.It's all about the experience :)

transit city has been cancelled....

I wish

ssiguy, I think you just like to rag on Toronto no matter what Toronto does.

Back when Toronto was building subways, you complained that they should be building light rail instead.

Now that LRT is being built -- including some which have higher travel speeds than Bloor Subway -- you're wishing for it to be cancelled.

Go find some other city to troll in please.

ssiguy, I think you just like to rag on Toronto no matter what Toronto does.

Back when Toronto was building subways, you complained that they should be building light rail instead.

Now that LRT is being built -- including some which have higher travel speeds than Bloor Subway -- you're wishing for it to be cancelled.

Go find some other city to troll in please.

Are you talking to me?

Sorry I just go by what my friend told me from Toronto. He told me that the streetcar order from Bombardier has been cancelled because no money has been put forward in time from the provincial and feds. Because of that I assumed that the TransitCity was cancelled because of lack of commitment by higher level governments.

Do you have any articles or official documents to prove me wrong? Are there shovels and workers anywhere on Eglinton building that god forsaken LRT that was promised to us 5 years ago? I guess not.

Are you talking to me?

Sorry I just go by what my friend told me from Toronto. He told me that the streetcar order from Bombardier has been cancelled because no money has been put forward in time from the provincial and feds. Because of that I assumed that the TransitCity was cancelled because of lack of commitment by higher level governments.

Do you have any articles or official documents to prove me wrong? Are there shovels and workers anywhere on Eglinton building that god forsaken LRT that was promised to us 5 years ago? I guess not.

The Feds didn't pitch in, but the City paid the Fed's share
by improvised cuts to other parts of the TTC's budget. The order
was paid for at the last minute, at a special council session at the Convention Centre.

Also, Eglinton has only been around as an LRT proposal for 2 years, not 5. The EA is still in progress (the design has finally advanced to the stage that allows the EA to begin, and the EA formally began last month, although public consultation has been going longer than that). Until the EA is complete, shovels cannot legally be put in the ground.

^^^^

Thank God


I thought I wasn't going to see it in my lifetime

Is Transit City Dead? According to this report it may still be alive - 680News online article:

Scrapping Transit City Could Cost Toronto $65-Million

John Stall and 680News staff Dec 14, 2011 08:54:27 AM



...The provincial agency Metrolinx told the Globe and Mail that it is still working on the final figure with light-rail suppliers who lost the order when Transit City was cancelled, adding that it's important to be as accurate as possible before issuing an invoice to the City of Toronto.

However, Matlow said "it's not been decided by council yet that Transit City is indeed dead."

"Even in the memorandum of understanding between the province and the mayor, the Sheppard line will have to be debated and voted on at both the Ontario legislature and Toronto city council, so it's not been determined what the plan will be for rapid transit for Toronto in the coming years," he added.

Read More: http://www.680news.com/news/local/article/310073--cost-of-nixing-transit-city-could-hit-65-million

Fucking Ford and his stupid subway plan (which hasn't yet received any financial backing from any level of government or the private sector) have basically resulted in 2 years of inactivity on transit expansion, and with this budget cycle being nearly over will push it to 3 years.

The essential part is it's dead. Just a single year's delay is the kiss of death for transit plans in this country. Council or no council (who does Matlow think he is? The province has moved on, who cares about council?) this transit plan will not get revived just to satisfy the cravings of some lunatics who must 'Europeanize' suburban corridors that have made it clear they are not interested in any garbage LRT.

I will be doing my celebrating in earnest for whatever comes next... Luckily, I have my car to get me through the thick of it. Oh how I love my car.. It's clean, it's mine, people don't soil it, stink it, pee in it... My friend to get me from a to b.. Except when going to work, but I'm willing to deal with the TTC on that.

The essential part is that Transit City is still very much alive, Ford is going to take significant hit when council eventually votes to resume Transit City, and make sure Toronto residents do not get dinged for an idea that Ford thought up. Transit City will be revived, it will have to. It's fully-funded plan that is ready to be built, and it will cost the city nothihg. Ford has cost the city $65 Million(and possibly and extra $10M) on a plan that may never see completion!

I am glad you will be celebrating Transit City... That's what's coming next!

Transit City will be revived, it will have to. It's fully-funded plan that is ready to be built, and it will cost the city nothihg. Ford has cost the city $65 Million(and possibly and extra $10M) on a plan that may never see completion!

Transit City may not be fully funded anymore even if you do go back to the original plan.

The ~1 year delay in starting up Sheppard construction could boost the price by $50M. The province may be willing to absorb that though since they benefit by about $20M through delays in making payment (interest not paid on debt they didn't take).

The essential part is that Transit City is still very much alive, Ford is going to take significant hit when council eventually votes to resume Transit City, and make sure Toronto residents do not get dinged for an idea that Ford thought up. Transit City will be revived, it will have to. It's fully-funded plan that is ready to be built, and it will cost the city nothihg. Ford has cost the city $65 Million(and possibly and extra $10M) on a plan that may never see completion!

I am glad you will be celebrating Transit City... That's what's coming next!

Actually it was fully funded. Funding went to Eglinton to make the line, you know, more reliable..

So sad too bad.:( I suggest moving to Europe if you're that interested in subpar technology.

So Finch, Jane, Don Mills, the Waterfront, Sheppard etc. are all getting subways according to Ford, because "they want subways, not streetcars." Good luck finding the money to build and operate that.

Anyone who has actually taken the Finch bus knows how badly Transit City was needed.

They're all getting what they voted for!

It's not like Ford ran on a secretive platform to eliminate Transit City.. He made it very clear during the debates that he's a fan of subway expansion and the reallocation of TC funds to said subways. Those people still voted for him, therefore they have spoken. Democracy is a two way street.. Just because it doesn't go the way you want it to doesn't mean it's suddenly illegitimate.

Yes, but I don't think transit users on Finch voted to specifically have their bus routes cut and LRT axed. Neither do I believe that you voted for Ford to attempt a takeover of the waterfront development. They may have agreed with his other policies, but that's the problem when it comes to politics. You can never agree with someone 100% of the time, and you have to choose what's most important to you. For me, transit is the most important service (tied with Police). So when I see transit users getting the shaft like usual, I get upset.

Transit users have been getting the shaft in this city since the late 80s. Miller's regime was just smoke and mirrors... I loved the ridership growth strategy (gave me the 66D bus, a much better option to get home from the subway, and it's not getting cut!), but there was absolutely no economic rationale for it. Stintz said it best, the city implemented this strategy under the false notion that the province will greatly raise the subsidy for the TTC. Unfortunately that didn't pan out, so we're left dangling in the wind so to say.

Transit is most definitely my most important issue in this city. I am happy we're getting a subway (of sorts) under Eglinton, and that the completion of the Sheppard line is also back in the city's plan. I am also excited both Metrolinx and the TTC are studying a new downtown subway. I'm sorry, but this isn't a mid-sized European city. We have needs and those needs should also address future constraints in the system. LRT is just a bandaid. If you want to be aggressive about bringing reliable rapid transit that will serve this city today and for the next 50 years, then subway is the way to go. I feel like when I retire, the city will still be debating subways vs LRT.. It's just such a non-issue in my mind.. Some ambition would help us go a long way.

Yeah, we've been getting screwed for decades. But now people are really starting to feel it - fare hikes, reduced service, increasing ridership. That's a perfect storm. I have no problem paying more if it meant more reliable and convenient service, but to pay more for less service is ridiculous. The TTC, the City and the Province all need to realize that.

...Anyone who has actually taken the Finch bus knows how badly Transit City was needed.
bDn4SStsKvA

^^ Yeah, I saw that. At least somebody is willing to actually take that bus. I've only been on it once, never again! It's very dangerous.

When I was living in Etobicoke I used to take the Finch bus to transfer to the Brampton Steeles Ave. Bus to get to Sheridan. It was horribly over packed in 2000-01, can't imagine what its like now.

TC will never come back. Why?............because all the money going towards it is now spoken for a la Eglinton.
TC was a flawed design and incredible poorly executed.
Toronto needs more mass and rapid transit and TC {with the exception of Eglinton} was neither.
Here's a radical idea...........why not use a POP semi-express line using articulates like Vancouver's BLine system. They are reliable and very fast with stops about every 1 km with POP and bus-only lanes in rush hour.

TC will never come back. Why?............because all the money going towards it is now spoken for a la Eglinton.
TC was a flawed design and incredible poorly executed.
Toronto needs more mass and rapid transit and TC {with the exception of Eglinton} was neither.
Here's a radical idea...........why not use a POP semi-express line using articulates like Vancouver's BLine system. They are reliable and very fast with stops about every 1 km with POP and bus-only lanes in rush hour.

The money may all be allocated to Eglinton, but if a later government decides that the line doesn't need to be buried, the money saved could be reallocated. Granted, the same government would also have to say that the unspent funds would not go toward completing the Sheppard line east to Scarborough Centre. Suffice to say both the City and the Province would have to renegotiate the funding. The savings from the original proposal for Eglinton could at least (partially?) build the Finch line.

As for implementing a B-Line, the TTC for whatever reason is hesitant to purchase new artics. As for implementing bus-only lanes you'd probably find: 1)businesses along the corridor opposed (even if only for rush hour) 2) a mayor who would consider taking away a lane to be part of the "war on the car" 3) next to useless without vigilant enforcement of the lanes.

Several of the Transit City corridors already have HOV lanes, hence the upgrade to LRT. I don't know why express routes hadn't been considered for the same corridors? Only the Finch, Jane and Morningside corridors currently have express service.

The money may all be allocated to Eglinton, but if a later government decides that the line doesn't need to be buried, the money saved could be reallocated. Granted, the same government would also have to say that the unspent funds would not go toward completing the Sheppard line east to Scarborough Centre. Suffice to say both the City and the Province would have to renegotiate the funding. The savings from the original proposal for Eglinton could at least (partially?) build the Finch line.

As for implementing a B-Line, the TTC for whatever reason is hesitant to purchase new artics. As for implementing bus-only lanes you'd probably find: 1)businesses along the corridor opposed (even if only for rush hour) 2) a mayor who would consider taking away a lane to be part of the "war on the car" 3) next to useless without vigilant enforcement of the lanes.

Several of the Transit City corridors already have HOV lanes, hence the upgrade to LRT. I don't know why express routes hadn't been considered for the same corridors? Only the Finch, Jane and Morningside corridors currently have express service.It would be nice to have bus-only lanes on these busy corridors during peak & daytime hours, but enforcement would be next to impossible without changing laws or using "gotcha" technology (mobile cameras on TTC buses to capture license plates of lane violators).

As for new artics, maybe the TTC could lease some of Mississauga's 2001 series of artic buses that are due for retirement next year. Leasing would be better in the short term (if the corridor is going to be LRT one day) and MT could provide the maintenance & garage space so TTC doesn't have to worry about doing that.

As for express routes, the best revenue generator is a fast bus route with lots of turnover.

Express bus routes are a nice idea but they don't always bring back a lot of revenue to the TTC. Sometimes the cost of implementing the route does not justify the revenue or benefits from the additional service.

Cheers, m

I should have been more specific..............Vancouver's BLines only have sections that are bus-only and only in rush hours.
I'm not big on express buses going all the way down a regular street but something like the BLine can work very well. They are fast, reliable, have higher capacity, and due to fewer stops and POP, they almost never "bunch" up eventhough they run every 4 minutes in rush hour down Vancouver's very hectic and busy Broadway.

Interesting, Transit City is not dead - Toronto Star article:

Mayor Rob Ford had No Authority to Cancel Transit City, Lawyers Say

Tess Kalinowski
Transportation Reporter
Sun Jan 29 2012

A report by a respected Toronto law firm says Mayor Rob Ford exceeded his legal authority when he cancelled Transit City without city council approval.

Councillor Joe Mihevc, who solicited the legal opinion, will release it publicly on Monday.

It says the mayor had no business entering into a non-binding memorandum of understanding with the province that authorized a new transit plan, including a Sheppard subway and a longer tunnel on the Eglinton light rail line. It says he further overstepped his powers when he told TTC chief general manager Gary Webster to stop work on Transit City.

Since the mayor had no legal authority to enter into the memorandum of understanding, it shouldn’t be acted upon until council approves it, say the lawyers. Until that happens, it is only an agreement in principle.

Mihevc is calling on the mayor and city manager to bring the transit issue before council immediately.

The lawyers’ report comes as a battle is brewing between the mayor’s office and city councillors from across the political spectrum, including Ford allies John Parker and TTC chair Karen Stintz. They disagree with the transit plan the mayor committed to with the province.

According to the report by lawyers Freya Kristjanson and Amanda Darrach, Ford “did not follow the proper procedure for obtaining City Council’s authorization to rescind Transit City and develop and approve an alternate plan.”

“Under the City of Toronto Act, the power of the city resides in City Council. The Mayor of Toronto has very little independent authority beyond his role as head of City Council. Unless specific power is delegated to him, the mayor does not have the authority to speak for the city independently,” wrote the lawyers, from Cavalluzzo, Hayes, Shilton, McIntyre & Cornish.

Kristjanson was counsel to Mayor Hazel McCallion during last year’s Mississauga judicial inquiry.

The legal implications transcend the transit issue, said Mihevc. Although Transit City is the most egregious example of the mayor’s dictatorial approach to government, the city needs an inquiry into how city staff, including City Manager Joe Pennachetti, are following direct orders from the mayor’s office when they are supposed to be directed by council, he said.

“Staff followed the dictates of the mayor but they shouldn’t have done that,” said Mihevc. “People were feeling their jobs were at risk so they buckled.”

“Indeed the province buckled,” by entering into the non-binding agreement, he said....


Read More: http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1123218--mayor-rob-ford-had-no-authority-to-cancel-transit-city-lawyers-say?bn=1

Every delay is another nail in the coffin.. Ford might be onto something here.

In other words, good luck getting the supermajority required to bring the issue to council. Even with dissenters in Ford's camp, he will easily quash that.

Council does have a majority and Matlow said it will be brought to council in February.

Council does have a majority and Matlow said it will be brought to council in February.

To be brought to council it needs to have the executive committee's support (that it doesn't), if not, it needs a supermajority (2/3) of council to be brought to the table. I'm willing to bet it doesn't.

Even with dissenters in Ford's camp, he will easily quash that.

How exactly? Ford is becoming irrelevant. He can't quash anything without any councilors to vote in his favour. Councilors have finally figured out that they can minimized the damaged caused by Ford by simply isolating him.

How exactly? Ford is becoming irrelevant. He can't quash anything without any councilors to vote in his favour. Councilors have finally figured out that they can minimized the damaged caused by Ford by simply isolating him.

Did you bother reading my post above? It explains everything.. This isn't speculation, but the actual route of business in council.

The left and the middle support the new plan, as does some of Ford's key allies including Karen Stintz, Michael Thompson and John Parker. I think Ford will lose this one.

The left and the middle support the new plan, as does some of Ford's key allies including Karen Stintz, Michael Thompson and John Parker. I think Ford will lose this one.

A supermajority is hard to achieve. Ford's yes men (and by yes men I mean unequivocal supporters of the man) are enough to prevent this from going to council.

We'll wait and see, but I still don't think Ford has the votes. His yes men are Ford, Mammoliti, Holyday, Minnan-Wong, Crisanti, Palacio, Shiner, Grimes, Kelly, Nunziata, Ainslie, Milczyn, and Del Grande, so he's facing a shortfall. Di Giorgio, Moeser and Pasternak might come through, but I doubt they'll join the sinking ship.

A supermajority is hard to achieve. Ford's yes men (and by yes men I mean unequivocal supporters of the man) are enough to prevent this from going to council.

From the NP story on Wednesday... Councillor Mammoliti, who has pushed for a subway on Finch Avenue, says that if a forthcoming report on how to build the Sheppard line determines that private-sector funding will be hard to come by, then “we should be looking at improving what is there to begin with” on Finch. He favours a swift surface light rail line over a dedicated bus lane. As for what should happen on Eglinton, Mr. Mammoliti said that “during the election I didn’t hear anybody on the eastern side say they had some concerns with [surface light rail].”

Downtown, Bay Street's diamond lane is a free for all.

that makes sense...

What we need: more taxes! I volunteer and work with people to help reduce potholes in Toronto's pavement and help clean the air (getting people on bikes), that should be subsidized by the government.

Did you bother reading my post above? It explains everything.. This isn't speculation, but the actual route of business in council.

Explains nothing, other than you're wrong. Ford did not have the power to cancel Transit City in the first place, and council must approve Ford's plan. The actual route of business is Ford needs to bring his plan to a vote, and looks like he will not have the votes to get it approved, now that councilors understand what a terrible plan it is.

Vote down the plan, revert back to Transit City, or most of it. Stintz is trying real hard to give Ford a chance to save face, and he won't take it.

This was a genius move by Joe Mihevc, he knew Ford did not have the authority to cancel Transit City, he just needed the right time to pounce. And pounce he did! A report by a respected law firm posted in the largest media sources in Canada putting Ford in his place. Great move!

Dude to bring the issue to council it needs executive committee support. You can't just throw it in there, even if Ford stepped out of line earlier.

Dude to bring the issue to council it needs executive committee support. You can't just throw it in there, even if Ford stepped out of line earlier.

Four out of 11 on the executive committee have been public about backing Stintz. Three others have voted in favour of Transit City components while Miller was in power. Shiner has been quiet and the result has a direct impact on his ward.

Kelly seems to be in favour of a burried Eglinton with the expectation that operating expenses will be lower. I hope he's lying because that's pretty poor reseach on his part. tunnels, escalators, elevators, etc. require a huge number of maintenance staff. Front-line staff (drivers/fare takers) will be lower and back-end support will be much higher). I suppose the first 5 years after construction might be lower in a tunnel.

If Ford stalls for more than a month the cities legal department (at proding by council members) may give direction to TTC brass that they are to follow the last authorative direction given.

Dude to bring the issue to council it needs executive committee support. You can't just throw it in there, even if Ford stepped out of line earlier.

Dude, again, council can sidestepped executive committee:

Steve Munro explains it much better than I:


"Councillors now talk openly of calling a special meeting using a procedure that requires only a simple majority to invoke. The agenda is set by the call for the meeting, not throttled by the mayor’s cronies at Executive Committee. This will allow discussion of transit alternatives, disposition of the MoU, and many other actions such as reconstituting the TTC with a better balanced group of Councillors. Council could even amend its own bylaws to strip Ford of his power to control Standing Committees and the Executive. These are powers Council granted, and Council can take them away."

Get it now?

It's all about council, and it seems council is finally fed up with Ford. You cannot compromise with that asshole. It's hopeless, and it seems council finally gets it.

About time.

We are back!!

At the special meeting Gary Webster just said TC is better value for money than Subways.

Stinitz's motion has passed 26-17. Transit City looks to be back!

Hmm - Norm Kelly says he accidentally voted for her motion, they reopened it and now its 27-16. Either he misread it, or two others switched votes as well

Minnan-Wong and Thompson misvoted too, so they reopened it twice.

Transit City's back baby!

I can't wait to get into work tomorrow and look at the front page of my boss's Toronto Sun. I'm sure i'll get a good laugh.

oh yeah, and one more thing. Why does Rob and his allies keep calling an underground LRT a subway????

oh yeah, and one more thing. Why does Rob and his allies keep calling an underground LRT a subway????


Because a subway means underground...

The train technology used is irrelevant.

Because a subway means underground...

The train technology used is irrelevant.And no matter the train technology, any light rail vehicle above the ground can be called an "LRT" (Spadina "LRT", St. Clair "LRT", Scarborough "LRT") whenever necessary, but must also be referred to as a "glorified streetcar" for propaganda & confusion purposes.

Cheers, m

Globe article:
Interactive Map: The Storied History of Toronto's Transit Plans
From a massive network of light-rail lines to the Sheppard subway extension, a review of transit plans proposed, adapted and cancelled:


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/interactive-map-the-storied-history-of-torontos-transit-plans/article2331644/?from=2337244


.

The report Rob is dismissing as Hogwash

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2012/cc/bgrd/backgroundfile-45908.pdf

The report Rob is dismissing as Hogwash

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2012/cc/bgrd/backgroundfile-45908.pdf

Figures, but who cares about him anyway.... we're getting Transit City back!

Looks like LRT will win out for sure, Moeser has committed to voting for LRT on Sheppard

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1149250--mayor-rob-ford-s-subway-plan-suffers-setback?bn=1

^^Ron Moeser will not be there for the meeting. But he did pen a letter that Stintz handed out to all councilors.

Mary Margaret McMahon has confirmed her support for LRT on Sheppard.

So is it safe to say Transit City is back now?

I think we'll have to wait for the provincial budget next week for the funding to be reconfirmed before saying it definitively, but I believe so

Toronto Star article:
Metrolinx Ponders Timing of Sheppard LRT

Published On Fri Mar 23 2012
Tess Kalinowski, Daniel Dale and Robert Benzie

It will likely be a couple of months before the city and province ink a master agreement determining the construction phasing and cash flow for the three LRTs city council has approved, TTC chair Karen Stintz said Friday. Although construction is underway on Eglinton Ave., Stintz said it’s unclear whether Sheppard or Finch would be built first.

Metrolinx said Friday it expects to take a recommendation on the city’s LRT plan to its next board meeting. A spokesman said the meeting date hasn’t been confirmed, although the agency’s website identified June 21. “We’re further along with the studies for Sheppard. But ultimately those decisions are made by Metrolinx and cabinet. Both are important, both will get built,” said Stintz. Some city councillors say Sheppard should be built first to prevent Mayor Rob Ford from reopening the issue if he wins the next election....

...At Queen’s Park, Transportation Minister Bob Chiarelli said that after six years of wrangling with two mayors, the province is anxious to move on the LRT. “Our perspective right now is that there will not be any further council resolutions that are required to implement what they’ve passed with these resolutions,” said Chiarelli.


“We all understand that it’s council that rules. A mayor has a lot of influence, but a mayor has one vote, anywhere in Ontario,” said the former Ottawa mayor. “We learn that very early in the mayoring business.”



Read More: http://www.thestar.com/news/transportation/article/1151234--metrolinx-ponders-timing-of-sheppard-lrt

Ontario Agrees to Fund Yet Another LRT Line in Toronto

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/toronto.jpg

Money for Sheppard East LRT expands city’s commitment to new transit solutions

Ontario’s government announced last week that it would chip in $950 million (Canadian) for the construction of a new light rail transit line in Canada’s largest city, Toronto. The commitment comes in addition to the previously declared appropriations for two other LRT projects and three rapid transit extensions, as well as last month’s exciting news that the city would be investing in 200 new streetcars from Bombardier. Collectively, the news suddenly makes Toronto the North American city with the largest transit expansion program.

The province’s most recent funding commitment will ensure the construction of the Sheppard East LRT line, which will run 15 km east from the Don Mills subway station on the Sheppard heavy rail line. The project — to open in 2013 — is expected to carry 45,000 daily riders, a number that will only increase when the also-funded extension of the Scarborough RT line is completed.

Unlike the large streetcar network that runs downtown, the Sheppard East LRT will operate in its own right-of-way, ensuring fast connections and reliable service times. Some have suggested that an expansion of the Sheppard subway would be preferable considering the high expected ridership, but the choice of light rail is a reflection of economic reality. Toronto has been pushing for a massive multi-line transit expansion called “Transit City” since 2007, and building so many underground lines would cost more than the city or region are able to contribute: the 8.6 km Spadina subway extension, for example, will cost $2.6 billion to build, about four times the per-mile cost as the proposed Sheppard East line.

But LRT in its own right-of-way will offer a high level of service for transit riders, and that’s presumably why the province previously made funds available for the Etobicoke-Finch West corridor, which will run east-west in the northern areas of the city (23 km, $1.2 billion), and the Eglinton Crosstown line (31 km, $4.6 billion), which will provide connections between the airport and Midtown.

Four other lines also delineated by the Transit City proposal — the Jane, Don Mills, Scarborough Malvern, and Waterfront West LRT lines — have yet to be funded by either the city or the provincial governments. But Canada’s ruling conservative party is in trouble politically — it almost lost its minority control over the government in January — so finding federal funds to ensure the completion of the entire Transit City project could prove advantageous in attracting the votes of Toronto’s large electorate. Mayor David Miller, who spearheaded the Transit City program, is a political independent and former member of the leftist New Democratic Party, and could prove a formidable future rival to the conservative government; the same could be said for ambitious Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty, who is a member of the Liberal Party (center-left).

Funding committed thus far to transit expansion in Toronto over the next five years now reaches over $10 billion even without the LRT projects that have yet to be funded, quite a considerable sum matched by few cities worldwide. What’s perhaps most impressive about Toronto’s plans, though, isn’t their scope, but rather their provisions for the city as a whole. While the city’s two major rapid transit routes focus on the downtown area, these new light rail projects will improve crosstown connections, underprioritized in most metropolitan areas. As a result, instead of simply reinforcing the centrality of the core, Toronto will provide mobility improvements and transit-oriented development possibilities to inhabitants throughout the metropolis.

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/05/18/ontario-agrees-to-fund-yet-another-lrt-line-in-toronto/

For those who live in Scarborough, you otta know how bad the bus system is here. The 116 is getting replaced with the LRT. I couldn't be happier.

Are all of those LRT lines are actually approved for construction, or just in the plans?

What's funded is in the thick red dash lines, with the exception of Eglinton between Jane and the Airport - oh and Yonge extension has no agreed upon funding either

I wonder what will they do on Queen Street.

Waterfront is already a LRT and its extension to the west would probably go along the current Queensway Streetcar/LRT. But they have no way of turning the Queen St into a LRT... So I am assuming the Queen St Streetcar will have to turn back at Roncesvalles and the LRT would run from Queensway all along the waterfront. Am I right?

I believe (should they be funded) the plan for Waterfront West and Queens Quay East/Portlands "LRTs" is to be built using TTC Gauge and run with the new Flexity cars that are supposed to arrive starting next year, otherwise they would require their own garage and repair facilities.

Toronto's planned LRT or Subway politics:

Subway service will surely be very convenient and faster, but very expensive to dig underground. Meanwhile, it will be cheaper to build an above the ground LRT system and its fun to ride too as you get to see the beauty of your neighborhood. But it will take a lot of your space in our GTA roads!

Looks like LRT will win out for sure, Moeser has committed to voting for LRT on Sheppard

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1149250--mayor-rob-ford-s-subway-plan-suffers-setback?bn=1

BTW, do they have the rendering yet for the LRT system, will it be elevated or just ground level?

There will be thousands of kilometres of roads without rail transit on them and just over a hundred with streetcar or LRT. Don't worry cars will have lots of space still.

There will be no elevated LRT, it will either be buried or at street level, where it won't require expensive infrastructure to be accessible.

There will be thousands of kilometres of roads without rail transit on them and just over a hundred with streetcar or LRT. Don't worry cars will have lots of space still.

There will be no elevated LRT, it will either be buried or at street level, where it won't require expensive infrastructure to be accessible.

The only problem in street level is the right-of-way. I think they should consider the elevated LRT that is similar to the one in Scarborough, if not burried like a subway which is also more expensive to build, and they may have to rent a tunnel-boring machines. Elevated railways are a cheap and easy way to build an exclusive right-of-way without digging expensive tunnels or creating barriers. This maybe the best interest for us taxpayers.

Meanwhile, a street level railways are used only outside the dense areas, since they create a physical barrier that hinders the flow of people and vehicles across their path. This method of construction is the cheapest, as long as land values are low. It is often used for new systems in areas that are planned to fill up with buildings after the line is built. But it will create some issue with the right-of-way since the LRV or LRT trains used here will have to follow the traffic lights at the intersections. And if they have to do this then they might as well settle with the existing BRT bus system instead of buying some expensive LRV or LRT vehicles/trains. Just my opinion.

It's not your fault you have the wrong opinion

It's not your fault you have the wrong opinion

Ah let me guess, you're one of mayor Rob Ford's advocates for that very expensive subway system? It fascinates me when even himself could not offer any reasonable explanations where to find their budget to fund the planned extension of subway system.:

“I don’t know where the money will come from, but I will say this – subways. Subways, subways, subways.” - Rob Ford
http://www.torontosatire.com/

The only problem in street level is the right-of-way. I think they should consider the elevated LRT that is similar to the one in Scarborough, if not burried like a subway which is also more expensive to build, and they may have to rent a tunnel-boring machines. Elevated railways are a cheap and easy way to build an exclusive right-of-way without digging expensive tunnels or creating barriers. This maybe the best interest for us taxpayers.

Meanwhile, a street level railways are used only outside the dense areas, since they create a physical barrier that hinders the flow of people and vehicles across their path. This method of construction is the cheapest, as long as land values are low. It is often used for new systems in areas that are planned to fill up with buildings after the line is built. But it will create some issue with the right-of-way since the LRV or LRT trains used here will have to follow the traffic lights at the intersections. And if they have to do this then they might as well settle with the existing BRT bus system instead of buying some expensive LRV or LRT vehicles/trains. Just my opinion.

This is not correct. I have been in cities with dense areas served by LRT. What you are saying is more a myth than a fact.

LRT does not have to "follow" the traffic signs, it is the car traffic that has to follow the signs. Signals should and probably will change to make the LRT only stop at the stations. It is the car traffic that stops to let the LRT go. As it should be.

Ah let me guess, you're one of mayor Rob Ford's advocates for that very expensive subway system? It fascinates me when even himself could not offer any reasonable explanations where to find their budget to fund the planned extension of subway system.:



Not at all, I'm a believer in street level lrt's, not elevated or buried unless absolutely necessary.

This is not correct. I have been in cities with dense areas served by LRT. What you are saying is more a myth than a fact.

LRT does not have to "follow" the traffic signs, it is the car traffic that has to follow the signs. Signals should and probably will change to make the LRT only stop at the stations. It is the car traffic that stops to let the LRT go. As it should be.

LRT rail system have only dedicated lanes or elevated rail lines. Do not be confused with streetcars or Trams.

Definitely there are LRT system existing in dense city-wide areas, but they are either elevated or partly underground/partly streetlevel usually beside the highways but never be in any street level that shares with the local ROW. But they could be totally street-level only outside the dense areas.

The one that you have experienced in Portugal is unique, and the street where it goes must be not that busy with people and cars. I just can't imagine how they gonna implement the same system here around GTA. At the outskirts maybe, but never in downtown toronto where an existing streetcars/trams system already in placed.

LRT stands for Light Rail Transit (not necessarily Rapid). Where it makes sense for LRT's to run on streets they absolutely should. Far more trips in the city are local or medium distance than long distance

Who says its Rapid?

Definitely they can run on the street, but it depends how busy the street are. If it's at the downtown core jampacked with other cars and trams like the one in toronto, then it's impractical and too risky even with those programmed traffic lights like the one in Porto.

Street-level LRT should only belongs to the outskirts, outside the densed city like toronto.

Street-level LRT should only belongs to the outskirts, outside the densed city like toronto.

Last time I checked, most of Toronto isn't very dense. Except for the growth centres already designated in the provincial document "Places to Grow" as linked below:

https://www.placestogrow.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=111&Itemid=15

And even so, some of these growth centres aren't even that dense, take for example Etobicoke and Scarborough Centre which right now, is nothing but sprawl and a few high rises here and there!

Last time I checked, most of Toronto isn't very dense. Except for the growth centres already designated in the provincial document "Places to Grow" as linked below:

https://www.placestogrow.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=111&Itemid=15

And even so, some of these growth centres aren't even that dense, take for example Etobicoke and Scarborough Centre which right now, is nothing but sprawl and a few high rises here and there!

Exactly. Thanks for the link BTW!

This must be the reason too why the Eglinton part will be a 19km underground subway with LRT trains (last time i checked their website). Because its just not feasible to have a surfaced street-level LRT along this avenue due to high volume of traffic flow with limited road space, and it goes thru the 20km radius downtown toronto core, using Yonge and Queen streets as the center point where most concentrated skyscrapers are located:

http://www3.ttc.ca/PDF/About_the_TTC/Eglinton_Scarborough_Presentation.pdf

^^From the given link i posted:

On July 28, 2010 Metrolinx
ordered four tunnel boring
machines at $62 million

• Machines will commence
midtown tunnel in mid-2012

• Manufactured by Lovat Inc., a
Toronto company employs 380
people in Etobicoke

• Valiant Machine and Tool will
manufacture electrical and
mechanical trailing gear
assemblies in Windsor

• A single machine’s average
mining rate for lined tunnel is 75
metres a week

Just throwing out my prediction for the coming months:

An election will be triggered and Hudak will win. He'll then immediately cancel the LRT plan or withdraw funding altogether. Then we'll be right back to square one. I can honestly see this happening.

No way! :lol:

That's too much politics and i would never expected anything like this happening in a first world country. They already got the money, just need some political will to proceed and forget about kickbacks from various contractors.

No way! :lol:

That's too much politics and i would never expected anything like this happening in a first world country. They already got the money, just need some political will to proceed and forget about kickbacks from various contractors.

It happened in the 90's when Harris cancelled the Eglinton subway. PC's love cancelling transit projects. It must be a fetish of theirs. :lol:

They already got the money...

No. The money is coming from future Ontario budgets. A portion of the confirmed funding is to be paid out on an annual basis to cover expenses. Construction is being staged to fit the expected payout rate (I.e. throttled by cash available).

It would be trivial from an accounting perspective to modify future budgets to reduce or eliminate that line item.

In fact, just for fun the province could cancel the LRTs and force Toronto to pay the cancellation costs incurred if contractors sue. Politically difficult but well within their means.


The only money sitting in a trust account is the Spadina subway expansion funds. Those funds really are locked and difficult for the province to claw back.

^^How can the contractors start working if they don get paid at the same time? The Eglinton underground LRT is supposed to be starting this mid year, so the budget has to be made available by now specially that they already purchased 4 tunnel-boring machines. Isn't? Wait im confused! :lol:

^^How can the contractors start working if they don get paid at the same time?

Work on Eglinton is staged over 10 years and gets tendered in chunks across that time period.

They also do not get paid in advance. They perform work on the promise of future payment. In fact, the city usually forces the contractor to be insured to cover costs (subcontractors) and damages in the event the city does not pay them (I.e. they are unable to unwilling to meet the tendered specifications).

It would be political suicide to cancel the funding at this point in time. Hudak needs seats in the 416, and cancelling transit city will make him lose any chance of getting one for decades. I could see him moving forward with a 2 stop sheppard extension and an all underground eglinton line though. Im hoping the ndp side with this budget, and metrolinx moves forward with finch first. That way finc will be well under contsruction by the next election, making it so hudak can only really change sheppard to the 2 station extension.

It would be political suicide to cancel the funding at this point in time.

Yes, and yet see New York's 2nd ave subway.

A few miles of tunnel (101st to 120th streets) was constructed in the 70's but money ran out and the project was stopped in place. It took 40 years to restart construction on it again.

Also see Eglinton which was about as far along in the 90's as it is today (TBM launch portal and engineering complete).


If the province suddenly could not borrow money and the choice was between cutting back on healthcare or cancelling large transit capital projects; I know which would happen.

Is there anymore politician aside from Hudak who is seem to be more capable?


Work on Eglinton is staged over 10 years and gets tendered in chunks across that time period.

They also do not get paid in advance. They perform work on the promise of future payment. In fact, the city usually forces the contractor to be insured to cover costs (subcontractors) and damages in the event the city does not pay them (I.e. they are unable to unwilling to meet the tendered specifications).


That's right. Thanks rbt!

It would be political suicide to cancel the funding at this point in time. Hudak needs seats in the 416, and cancelling transit city will make him lose any chance of getting one for decades. I could see him moving forward with a 2 stop sheppard extension and an all underground eglinton line though. Im hoping the ndp side with this budget, and metrolinx moves forward with finch first. That way finc will be well under contsruction by the next election, making it so hudak can only really change sheppard to the 2 station extension.

That's what I'm hoping will happen, although I doubt Finch will start before Sheppard. I believe Metrolinx had wanted to build Sheppard first and Finch last. Also, the Emery Village BIA wants to be re-consulted, so that will delay construction further.

sure, in a set of extreme circumstances it could be cancelled. but chances are, it won't be. no politician would willingly cut it from the budget.

on a side note, I'm still sort of hoping that if Hudak wins, he switches it to 2 subway stops. my dream would be an announcement of him funding Sheppard all the way to Scarborough town centre, but that won't happen under hudak. LRT really is the best option for Sheppard, though Lastman fucked up and built a subway. we have to deal with that now, and building LRT would be the wrong choice. I would also be game with the conversion of the Sheppard subway to underground LRT.

I'd be fine with the extension of the Sheppard subway two stops if it didn't come at the expense of the Finch LRT.

I really think Toronto should pony up the costs for extending Sheppard 2 stops to Vic Park where they could put in a decent bus/LRT transfer point. I believe the LRT project already calls for it to be tunneled under the 404 where it will either connect at the Mezzanine or track level of the Subway.

What would a 2 stop Sheppard Extension accomplish? The Sheppard East LRT will be in tunnel past the 404 congestion, and surface close to Vic Park, and in ROW the rest of the way. It's unlikely a Sheppard extension to Vic Park is going to have any significant time savings for travellers going beyond Vic Park. One big problem of the Sheppard Line is that it is pretty deep, and the walks from the platform to the bus stops/terminals is quite tedious.

What would a 2 stop Sheppard Extension accomplish? The Sheppard East LRT will be in tunnel past the 404 congestion, and surface close to Vic Park, and in ROW the rest of the way. It's unlikely a Sheppard extension to Vic Park is going to have any significant time savings for travellers going beyond Vic Park. One big problem of the Sheppard Line is that it is pretty deep, and the walks from the platform to the bus stops/terminals is quite tedious.

The benefit would be serving the residential/commercial complex at between Consumers and VP , as well as a chance to have a proper bus terminal with easy connections between the three modes of transit. I know the station costs would be higher, but the tunneling costs would be the same.

The benefit would be serving the residential/commercial complex at between Consumers and VP , as well as a chance to have a proper bus terminal with easy connections between the three modes of transit. I know the station costs would be higher, but the tunneling costs would be the same.

And what would happen to the "proper" bus terminal at Don Mills? If the majority of routes migrate to the Victoria Park station you then have an overbuilt underground bus platform at Don Mills left to serve the 10/169A, 25, 85, 85B and probably the 139. That's 5 out of 16 routes. There's the perennial push to get the 10 extended to Leslie station as well. PRESTO would allow VIVA Green in if tapping on was required for all transfers. If the Consumers station doesn't include provisions for a bus terminal (which is most likely), I could see the routes operating on Consumers to feed into Victoria Park to avoid the traffic at the Don Mills station.

With almost no fanfare a new short section of track is being installed this year - Globe article:
A Tiny Perfect Streetcar Line is Being Laid Along Cherry Street

ADRIAN MORROW
From Friday's Globe and Mail
Published Friday, May. 25, 2012 4:00AM EDT
Last updated Saturday, May. 26, 2012 1:53AM EDT

There’s a new streetcar line under construction in Toronto, the first in more than a decade and a surprising development during the tenure of a mayor who is outspokenly opposed to light rail. The tracks are being laid this year along the northern portion of Cherry Street, where they will operate in a dedicated right of way. When it enters service after 2015, this small stretch will provide transit to new West Don Lands neighbourhood and the Distillery District.

The project is under the aegis of Waterfront Toronto, the tri-government agency charged with redeveloping the lakeshore, and is separate from the $8.4-billion scheme to build light rail lines in the suburbs. As such, it avoided the messy battles at city hall that pitted LRT proponents against the anti-streetcar administration of Mayor Rob Ford. However, the preoccupation with bringing transit to the outer reaches of the city has meant that little attention has been paid or funding committed to servicing the new developments rapidly sprouting up in the eastern waterfront.

Waterfront Toronto’s plan calls for the Cherry Street line to eventually extend south of the Gardiner Expressway into the Port Lands and an LRT to run from Union Station down Queens Quay east of Bay Street. But there is no money to pay for the majority of this proposal and Metrolinx, the provincial agency overseeing the suburban light rail projects, is keeping its distance. The full Queens Quay East line would cost roughly $300-million to build, said Waterfront Toronto CEO John Campbell. His agency has only $90-million for the project....

Read more: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/a-tiny-perfect-streetcar-line-is-being-laid-along-cherry-street/article2443203/